[00:00] <bblinky> rbox: I actually agree
[00:01] <bblinky> It seemed quite convenient tho if WSL would work, tbh win11 had me possitively surprised with a lot of things
[00:01] <bblinky> To a point where I'm apparently running it on my main laptop now..
[00:01] <bblinky> (slowly reconsidering
[00:01] <bblinky> 0
[00:03] <cosmicwonder> bblinky: my friend with said he can't help with that, and that it sounds like an ubuntu problem
[00:04] <bblinky> heh, go figure
[00:05] <bblinky> I think it sounds like a WSL problem... But #windows-wsl is like talking to a door
[00:05] <cosmicwonder> bblinky: he did say to ask you if the hardware is all right
[00:05] <cosmicwonder> yeah i wouldn't join any windows IRC channel
[00:05] <cosmicwonder> they are not helpful at all :p
[00:06] <bblinky> cosmicwonder: it's getting a bit hot, now that you ask
[00:06] <cosmicwonder> i'll tell Jookia
[00:06] <bblinky> Did you tell him it's inside a WSL instance
[00:07] <cosmicwonder> yeah
[00:07] <bblinky> Cool
[00:10] <cosmicwonder> he hasn't responded yet but i'll tell you when he does
[00:11] <bblinky> Cool cool, so far I think I'll just have to wait (forever) untill apt is done doing it's thing... I'm pretty sure it'll puke pretty bad if I shut the WSL down mid package install
[00:11] <bblinky> iirc
[00:11] <cosmicwonder> yeah
[01:04] <Beladona> does Ubuntu forces users to use snap and has no apt based alternatives? and debian does not forces people to use snap?
[01:05] <enyc> Beladona: more-or-less aiui but not sure whole story
[01:05] <enyc> Beladona: e.g. snap for firefox
[01:05] <enyc> Beladona: derivative linuxmint has deb package firefox via collaboration with mozilla directly, for example.
[01:09] <Beladona> enyc:  what do you mean by aiui?
[01:10] <Beladona> enyc: what if I do not want to use snap to install firefox? Can I still install firefox in ubuntu?
[01:11] <rbox> Beladona: there are firefox packages availabie n repos you can enable
[01:12] <enyc> Beladona: "as i understand it"
[01:12] <enyc> Beladona: then you need to install another way e.g. flatpak or some deb repository, or use a derivative like mint that does this for you, or so ...
[01:15] <Beladona> enyc:  so I cannot install firefox or other packages just by apt-get install?
[01:17] <Bashing-om> !firefox
[01:18] <enyc> Beladona: well you can in so far as ubuntu firefox package installs the snap version
[01:18] <bblinky> I ended up giving up on the ubuntu image since the arch wsl --justworks...
[01:18] <enyc> https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/firefox
[01:19] <bblinky> Thanks for the help with troubleshooting tho
[01:25] <Beladona> enyc: 'can'?  or cannot?
[01:28] <enyc> Beladona: well you gan  apt install firefox,  and their package just then isntalls nthe snap for you :   https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/firefox
[01:29] <cosmicwonder> Drone: did you ban anyone?
[01:29] <cosmicwonder> i saw the -b mode thingy
[01:29] <ravage> You are talking to a bot
[01:30] <ravage> Beladona: if you are allergic to snaps Ubuntu is not for you
[01:32] <Beladona> ravage:  ok, can you tell what is the key difference between ubuntu and debian regarding snaps
[01:32] <ravage> Debian does not come with snaps preinstalled
[01:33] <cosmicwonder> ravage: thanks
[01:33] <cosmicwonder> ravage: i kinda figured that
[01:38] <Beladona> ravage: so ubuntu uses snaps preinstalled but I can choose NOT to use snaps ever and STILL get all debian based packages installed?
[01:38] <rbox> Beladona: you can install whatever packages you want... but utubnut doesnt ship with any .deb files for firefox in it
[01:38] <ravage> You can of course choose not to use snaps
[01:40] <Beladona> rbox: ravage: ok but
[01:40] <rbox> no but
[01:40] <Beladona>  STILL get all debian based packages installed?
[01:40] <rbox> you can install wahtever packges you want
[01:41] <Beladona> ok so in short, there is always a snap -alternative present? and I don't have to use snap?
[01:41] <donotavio> Hello!
[01:41] <donotavio> I need help with my login; I lost my 2FA.
[01:41] <donotavio> Is anyone from Brazil?
[01:41] <rbox> no
[01:41] <rbox> you dont read do you?
[01:41] <rbox> "... but ubuntu doesn't ship with any .deb files for firefox ..."
[01:41] <Beladona> that is the question. Being shipped with and "able to install later with deb" is different. You don't concentrate on questions, do you?
[01:42] <rbox> it doenst come with it, but you can install wahtgever you want
[01:42] <rbox> its not rocket science
[01:42] <Beladona> that was the question,
[01:42] <Beladona> "can all be installed later as deb and not snap"
[01:42] <Beladona> if answer is yes, that ok
[01:42] <rbox> you have to get the debs from elsewher
[01:42] <rbox> because as i said
[01:42] <rbox> you can install wahtever yo uwant
[01:43] <ravage> !br | donotavio
[01:43] <Beladona> elsewher? what is that?
[01:43] <rbox> not the ubuntu repos
[01:43] <ravage> and this room does not support any installation from 3rd party repos. so you have to figure that out yourself
[01:43] <Beladona> oh, what might be the other reps for exmple?
[01:43] <Beladona> debian reps?
[01:44] <rbox> sure, if you want to break your system
[01:44] <rbox> go for it
[01:44] <Beladona> oh
[01:44] <donotavio> ravage como poso recuperar meu 2Fa?
[01:44] <Beladona> then the 3rd party repos will break too
[01:44] <ravage> english only
[01:44] <rbox> its possible
[01:44] <rbox> like ravage said, not supported
[01:44] <Beladona> rbox: it means ubuntu does not have support for all deb based apps and forces users to install most via snap?
[01:44] <Beladona> and that is not the case with debian?
[01:45]  * rbox ignores the troll
[01:45] <Beladona> I am not a fan of either but trying to understand
[01:45]  * Beladona ignores the idiot
[01:45] <rbox> go troll somewhere else
[01:45] <Beladona> go behave elsewhere
[01:45] <Beladona> thanks by the way, appreciated :)
[01:46] <ravage> i think we gave all support relevant information. if you want to discuss use other rooms like #ubuntu-discuss
[01:47] <donotavio> ravage I need help with my login, I lost my 2FA. How can I recover access to my account?
[01:47] <ravage> donotavio: i have no idea what login you are talking about
[01:49] <donotavio> ravage: https://login.ubuntu.com/+login
[01:51] <ravage> donotavio: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSO/FAQs/2FactorAuthentication#I_got_locked_out_of_my_account.__What_should_I_do.3F
[01:53] <ravage> but the short answer is: if you lost all your 2fa devices and dont have any backup codes the account is los
[01:53] <ravage> t
[02:03] <donotavio> My God!
[02:03] <donotavio> OK. Thank you ravage.
[02:12] <bobdobbs> Hi all. I've placed a new 1TB SSD into my rig. After booting I can see it with gparted. So now I want to put a filesystem onto it. If I right-click and select 'new', I'm told tht the disc needs a partition table. So I do 'device'->'create partition table'...
[02:12] <bobdobbs> I'm given a choice of partition table types. The default is msdos.
[02:12] <bobdobbs> Which type is the most appropriate?
[02:13] <rbox> gpt
[02:13] <bobdobbs> what exactly are partition table types?
[02:13] <bobdobbs> rbox: thanks :)
[02:13] <arraybolt3> MSDOS and GPT partition labels are just two different ways of organizing partitions on a device.
[02:14] <arraybolt3> Of the two, GPT is superior as it allows more than four partitions and supports devices larger than 2 TB.
[02:14] <bobdobbs> I see
[02:14] <bobdobbs> thank you
[02:15] <arraybolt3> (Technically MSDOS tables can support more than 4 partitions but it requires a weird workaround called a "logical partition" and it's generally easier to just use GPT in those instances. Even if that's not a concern here, it's easier to just always use GPT - it's less likely to get you in a weird situation.)
[02:16] <bobdobbs> arraybolt3: I think I remember logical partitions.
[02:16] <bobdobbs> are they not really cool anymore?
[02:16] <dTal> why can't we just skip the whole partition table silliness and format a filesystem directly on the device?
[02:16] <arraybolt3> dTal: Actually you can :)
[02:16] <dTal> I mean I know you can technically, the tools will do it for you
[02:16] <arraybolt3> But when the day comes you want to put two filesystems on that drive, you'll be sorry you did.
[02:16] <dTal> but surely things break
[02:17] <arraybolt3> I've formatted drives "monolithic" like that and it works just fine with Linux and even with Windows IIRC... but when you want to add a second partition things get very messy very fast.
[02:17] <arraybolt3> Learned that the hard way.
[02:17] <rbox> dTal: whats going to "break"
[02:17] <arraybolt3> bobdobbs: Meh, they work still, but there's some gotchas.
[02:18] <dTal> idk, any software which assumes a partition table, which I imagine is most things that touch a disk in some way
[02:18] <arraybolt3> dTal: That's true. Someone nuked their drive in r/DataHoarder the other day because of that.
[02:18] <arraybolt3> Windows' Disk Management utility saw it as a "raw" drive and they reformatted it :(
[02:18] <rbox> dTal: like what
[02:18] <bobdobbs> k, my next step is to make my system mount the drive automatically on boot. I've made the dir '/mnt/media/ssd'. I seem to remember having to manually edit /etc/fstab to get automatic mounting. Does ubuntu give me a more high-level way to do this?
[02:19] <rbox> bobdobbs: what is "more high level"
[02:19] <arraybolt3> But as far as the filesystem functioning properly, filesystems can be thrown right onto a drive with no partition table without issues. You just run the risk of having a partition manager like Disk Management telling you your drive is empty, and you'll have troubles adding new partitions.
[02:20] <arraybolt3> bobdobbs: There's not really a way to set partition automount without using fstab that I know of.
[02:20] <arraybolt3> If there is a way, I'm not aware of it.
[02:20] <bobdobbs> rbox: like, some gui tool that does the fstab editing for me. Hopefully reading my mind or something.
[02:20] <rbox> rofl
[02:20] <rbox> its that hard to type in the uuid and the mount point?
[02:20] <arraybolt3> fstab isn't that hard to edit though, just make sure to specify "nofail" for the partition so that systemd doesn't fail to boot your system if the drive isn't available.
[02:20]  * bobdobbs picks up mouse and says 'computer' into it, in scottish accent
[02:20] <arraybolt3> rbox: Hey, some people prefer nice frontends, me included :P
[02:21] <arraybolt3> bobdobbs: 🤣
[02:21] <bobdobbs> arraybolt3: I'm glad someone got that
[02:21] <arraybolt3> "Just use the keyboard."
[02:21] <arraybolt3> I watched that movie more times than I care to admit. I've since stopped watching movies for the sake of mental health though.
[02:21] <bobdobbs> arraybolt3: I swear, that is a forgotten classic nerd scene
[02:31] <bobdobbs> k, this is my fstab entry https://hastebin.com/share/rufumaxuke.ini
[02:33] <arraybolt3> "We're sorry, but the contents of the bin could not be found, or it has been deleted."
[02:33] <arraybolt3> bobdobbs: ^
[02:33] <arraybolt3> wrong link?
[02:33] <bobdobbs> sorry, technical issues. I'm now locked out of hastebin
[02:33] <bobdobbs> and ubuntu's pastebin too, aparently
[02:34] <bobdobbs> hunting for a pastebin service I can use
[02:35] <bobdobbs> https://pastebin.com/pmPrV4RZ
[02:35] <bobdobbs> dammit. That only included part of my paste.
[02:35] <bobdobbs> I am having a bad pastebin day
[02:36] <bobdobbs> https://pastebin.com/P0GyLQ1R
[02:37] <bobdobbs> "target specified more than once" is wierd. There are no duplicate entries in the fstab
[02:37] <arraybolt3> I don't think ext is a filesystem.
[02:38] <arraybolt3> Pretty sure you meant ext4?
[02:38] <bobdobbs> oh yes. I did mean that
[02:38] <arraybolt3> Also what does the full fstab look like?
[02:38] <bobdobbs> darn ubuntu. not reading my mind
[02:39] <bobdobbs> Full fstab now: https://pastebin.com/jcUxRBcb
[02:39] <bobdobbs> I'm still getting that same error
[02:39] <bobdobbs> The error makes me think that I've provided the wrong UUID. But that's the UUID that I get for sdc from the command 'blkid /dev/sdc'
[02:39] <arraybolt3> Try changing "defaults" to "defaults,nofail"
[02:40] <arraybolt3> It does seem like you may have a wrong UUID though...
[02:40] <arraybolt3> ah, target specified more than once is an unrelated error
[02:41] <arraybolt3> because you have two swap partitions
[02:41] <arraybolt3> and it sees them as having the same "mountpoint"
[02:41] <bobdobbs> huh. I have no idea why I have two swap paritions
[02:41] <bobdobbs> could blkid be giving me the wrong uuid? I know that sounds weird
[02:42] <arraybolt3> Maybe.
[02:42] <arraybolt3> I think there's two different UUIDs, one for the partition and one for the filesystem.
[02:42] <arraybolt3> You want the filesystem one if I'm understanding correctly.
[02:42] <bobdobbs> How do I get that?
[02:42] <arraybolt3> Grab the one that starts "UUID" rather than "PARTUUID"
[02:43] <arraybolt3> for instance blkid for me has this line:
[02:43] <arraybolt3>  /dev/nvme0n1p3: UUID="fd489347-a18b-424d-a6a5-fccfc04e725e" TYPE="crypto_LUKS" PARTUUID="a5313721-8e7a-4e16-9db3-69c3adb26445"
[02:43] <arraybolt3> you'd want the first UUID not the second one
[02:43] <bobdobbs> ah
[02:43] <arraybolt3> Also I would put your drive at /mnt/mantis/sdd2 rather than /media/mantis/sdd2
[02:43] <arraybolt3> I'm not sure if /media/mantis is always guaranteed to exist
[02:44] <bobdobbs> ok, got it. Now my fstab passes the test (other than for the warning"
[02:44] <matsaman> I think at some point 'sdd2' is going to be more confusing than helpful
[02:44] <arraybolt3> since udisks might delete it. Whereas if you make /mnt/mantis, it will always be there.
[02:44] <matsaman> give the FS a LABEL, use that
[02:44] <arraybolt3> matsaman: good idea
[02:44] <bobdobbs> first things first. Lunch and then a nap
[02:44] <arraybolt3> sounds like a good idea :)
[02:44] <matsaman> 'sdd' isn't goint to be the most guaranteed moniker
[02:45] <arraybolt3> really do add nofail to that fstab line though, the day that drive isn't plugged in and you reboot will be a frustrating day otherwise
[02:45] <arraybolt3> systemd will refuse to boot a system if it can't mount every drive listed in fstab unless you mark them "nofail" if I'm understanding correctly, there might be other ways of marking a drive optional but nofail should work
[02:46] <matsaman> systemd =P
[03:33] <davi> dc
[03:33] <davi> salvd
[03:33] <davi> xssaalve
[03:35] <davi> salve
[04:07] <Beladona> Is there an app to handle multiple text copy paste in clip board. Ie dividing clipboard to have multiple items in it
[04:12] <tomreyn> probably some gnome extension
[04:13] <tomreyn> "pano" and "gpaste" seem to be some
[04:15] <tomreyn> also "clipboard indicator"
[04:27] <matsaman> 'clipboard manager'
[04:41] <Beladona> tomreyn:  matsaman:  ok
[04:42] <tomreyn> Beladona: ok
[04:46] <ice9> managing security devices in firefox from snap doesn't work, any work around or other tools to do that?
[04:48] <matsaman> don't use snap
[04:48] <matsaman> why would you
[05:11] <tomreyn> ice9: i'm pretty sure i saw a bug report filed about this on mozillas bugtracker
[05:12] <ice9> tomreyn, there is but, it's not fixed yet
[05:12] <ice9> are there other tools to manage security keys?
[05:12] <tomreyn> and no workaround either?
[05:13] <tomreyn> ice9: you seem to be asking the same question on #ubuntu and #debian, which one are you using?
[05:14] <ice9> tomreyn, some said to allow /usr/lib/....so for the snap and apparmor or copy the .so file into the snap dir; I tried the later but didn't work
[05:14] <ice9> tomreyn, i'm using now ubuntu but my question in #debian about tools to manage security devices in general, not the snap issue I asked here!
[05:14] <tomreyn> i see
[05:18] <tomreyn> ice9: you can use the deb builds instead: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1399383/how-to-install-firefox-as-a-traditional-deb-package-without-snap-in-ubuntu-22
[05:29] <dervish77newprot> n
[05:57] <Beladona> Does ubuntu pulls from unstable branches of debian?
[06:00] <Beladona> I heard it from matsaman
[06:00] <matsaman> Beladona: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/28324/how-is-ubuntu-based-on-debian
[06:00] <ice9> how to force apt to install a package from apt sources, not snap?
[06:02] <Beladona> So, Ubuntu gets to maintain its own core set of packages and also get the benefit of the huge quantity of Debian packages.
[06:03] <matsaman> Beladona: yeah there are actually tons of distros that do this with Debian
[06:03] <Beladona> but where does it says that ubuntu uses usntable things from deb
[06:06] <matsaman> Beladona: I'm not sure where the best place to get that information from is, but it's all over
[06:06] <matsaman> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers#Why_does_Ubuntu_have_an_older.2Fbuggy_version_of_my_package.3F
[06:07] <matsaman> you could also, for example, compare Ubuntu contemporary package versions to Debian stable, testing, & unstable versions
[06:07] <matsaman> and you'll see which match up the most
[06:10] <matsaman> Debian stable doesn't make a great desktop, because the more popular desktop-oriented packages are somewhat outdated due to the stabilization process
[06:11] <matsaman> and most desktop users are very stuck on the latest popular software
[07:06] <Beladona> matsaman:  I see. any examples on which apps are not on latest position in debian?
[07:08] <toddc> !latest | Beladona
[07:09] <matsaman> Beladona: Debian has a stable, testing, unstable setup. In reverse order of latest-ness
[07:10] <Beladona> ok
[07:10] <elias_a> Beladona: Your question is quite difficult to answer as there are so many applications in both distibutions, Ubuntu and Debian.
[07:10] <elias_a> Beladona: Better check out yourself whether your needs are fulfilled.
[07:12] <elias_a> Beladona: For easy testing I recommend running the selected OS in a virtual machine. VirtualBox works very well in my opinion.
[07:14] <elias_a> Beladona: The good side of Debian is that the technical tools used by developers and technical users are very much up to date. Other sw might lag behind as already said.
[07:15] <Beladona> like?
[07:17] <elias_a> Speaking of Ubuntu, I noticed a few weeks ago that latest Ubuntu LTS has quite old version of nodejs and I chose to upgrade to non LTS to get a certain sw to work.
[07:17] <Beladona> matsaman:  elias_a:  heres my stack: postgres, awesomewm, vlc, brave, chrome, firefox, kdenlive, audacity, zfs stuff, fish, wacom tablet pen, xournalpp
[07:17] <Beladona> nodejs, typescript
[07:17] <Beladona> but I can use nvm for nodejs verions
[07:18] <Beladona> oh and neovim
[07:18] <elias_a> Beladona: In my case various audio and music sw like Musescore used for writing sheet music.
[07:18] <matsaman> neat
[07:18] <Beladona> elias_a:  matsaman:  I won't be able  to use LTS in either distro as postgres 15 for example is not on LTS on either. I need 15
[07:19] <Beladona> matsaman: who?
[07:19] <matsaman> node is going to be one of those JS ecosystem things that will be hard for package managers to keep up with, on any distro
[07:19] <Beladona> matsaman:  use nvm. node version manager
[07:19] <Beladona> Is the systemd same in debian?
[07:20] <elias_a> Beladona: Why don't you check your requirements against the versions different distros have? That information is obtainable without installing.
[07:20] <toddc> non issue if you use containers or snaps or---
[07:20] <Beladona> elias_a: ok
[07:21] <matsaman> Beladona: I think stable has 15
[07:21] <matsaman> Debian stable
[07:21] <Beladona> yes
[07:21] <Beladona> ubuntu too
[07:21] <Beladona> matsaman:  but both LTS veriosn do not have 15
[07:21] <matsaman> Beladona: Debian stable is as stable as it gets on Debian
[07:21] <elias_a> LTS too?
[07:21] <matsaman> LTS is an Ubuntu thing
[07:22] <matsaman> it's not more stable, it's just longer supported
[07:22] <Beladona> oh
[07:22] <elias_a> Debian stable means roughly the same as Ubuntu LTS.
[07:22] <matsaman> elias_a: nope
[07:22] <elias_a> matsaman: How does it differ in your opinion?
[07:22] <Beladona> matsaman:  debian stable == debian LTS?
[07:23] <matsaman> it's not a matter of opinion
[07:23] <matsaman> Beladona: no
[07:23] <elias_a> Tell me.
[07:23] <matsaman> Debian stable is more stable, Ubuntu LTS is an ordinary Ubuntu release that is supported for more years than some other Ubuntu releases
[07:23] <matsaman> an Ubuntu LTS version is just as unstable as any other when it's released
[07:23] <Beladona> matsaman:  what is bookworm?
[07:23] <matsaman> Beladona: latest Debian stable, IIRC
[07:23] <matsaman> version 12
[07:27] <elias_a> matsaman: In both cases the aim is to get a version more stable AFAIK. At least for Debian that is.
[07:27] <matsaman> elias_a: yes in _only_ the Debian case, which is not both
[07:28] <elias_a> matsaman: Ubuntu is also releasing updates to LTSs. What is that if not increaseing stability and reliability?
[07:28] <matsaman> elias_a: you could say it is, but it's still not equivalent to Debian stable
[07:29] <Beladona> matsaman:  what version of debian is non-stable then?
[07:29] <matsaman> because Debian stable is already stable at the outset, and Ubuntu, it has no stable branch
[07:29] <matsaman> Beladona: it has stable, testing, and unstable
[07:29] <elias_a> matsaman: At least the process is very different. In the case of Debian it is very well documented after very, very long discussions... :D
[07:29] <matsaman> Ubuntu has only one (which is from non-stable Debian)
[07:29] <matsaman> elias_a: I'm sure
[07:30] <Beladona> matsaman:  oh ok you mentioend it, I missed
[07:30] <Beladona> matsaman:  the only problem it seems is I want to maek base OS on zfs. debian do not give that option
[07:30] <matsaman> it might be more effort on your part, yeah
[07:30] <matsaman> to do that
[07:30] <Beladona> if systemd is same on debian and ubuntu and the apps I mentioend above are in both debian and ubuntu on somewhat same latest condition, then debian is the obvious choice
[07:30] <elias_a> matsaman: Me too as I've been involved as a localization dude of my country. :P
[07:31] <matsaman> but like I said in #linux, if you're used to Ubuntu, there is no shame in sticking with it
[07:31] <matsaman> Debian is the obvious choice if you want better security & stability
[07:31] <Beladona> matsaman: if I even get 10% more stability and performance, debian is worth trying. if not, the ubuntu
[07:31] <matsaman> 👍
[07:32] <Beladona> matsaman:  not sure what % you observed
[07:32] <Beladona> matsaman:  what was your experience in both ubuntu and debian practically?
[07:33] <matsaman> it's hard to take any derivative distro very seriously
[07:33] <matsaman> the extras that Ubuntu pushes in particular I do not care for
[07:33] <matsaman> it has got a lot of new linux users into the world, that is nice
[07:33] <Beladona> what extrra?
[07:33] <arraybolt3> Just a note, I object slightly to the idea that Debian is better in the security realm. They rely on a maintainer system that is very efficient as far as getting lots of packages maintained and taken care of, but their systems are not exactly ideal for security. Stability, sure, but security, not always.
[07:34] <arraybolt3> Case in point, if a new version of Firefox ESR comes out and something about it is broken when it tries to be installed, it will get held back even if it fixes security issues. One time that happened for a month, meaning a month of users using a known-flawed browser.
[07:34] <arraybolt3> !ping
[07:35] <arraybolt3> oh now it works
[07:35] <arraybolt3> (irc client hung up for a bit)
[07:35] <arraybolt3> For security, Ubuntu is somewhat better at "making things happen" when security updates come out, so I would choose it over Debian in a security-critical environment in most instances.
[07:36] <arraybolt3> There are some times where Debian's security *may* be superior to Ubuntu's, namely when you have to work with a package that happens to be in Ubuntu's Universe repository. However for many core packages (browser, kernel, etc.), Ubuntu's security is superior from what I understand.
[07:37] <Beladona> I am also not a fan of ext4. zfs floats my boat. system crashs makes ext4 corrupt
[07:37] <Beladona> also, builtin raid of zfs is good
[07:37] <Beladona> I always wished if I had flexibility in freebsd
[07:41] <Beladona> matsaman:  did you tried freebsd? It has soo less user supprt
[07:41] <matsaman> arraybolt3: are you comparing Debian stable with Ubuntu there, or Debian testing or unstable?
[07:42] <matsaman> Beladona: yes
[07:42] <Beladona> matsaman:  yes on both?
[07:42] <matsaman> I don't know, there's a freebsd channel around here somewhere
[07:42] <matsaman> Beladona: both?
[07:43] <Beladona> matsaman:  am.. nevermind, what was your experience with freebsd?
[07:43] <arraybolt3> matsaman: Debian Stable vs Ubuntu.
[07:43] <matsaman> Beladona: it's like the Debian of BSDs, very similar installation feel
[07:43] <matsaman> arraybolt3: which is the silly comparison so many people make
[07:43] <matsaman> you have to compare Ubuntu to unstable Debian
[07:43] <matsaman> because that's what it is
[07:43] <arraybolt3> matsaman: Not as silly as you might think. I actually help(ed) develop both.
[07:44] <arraybolt3> Yes, Ubuntu is based on Sid.
[07:44] <matsaman> it's just that silly
[07:44] <arraybolt3> However, Sid is not used as a desktop OS for most people.
[07:44] <matsaman> if it's based on sid you compare it to sid
[07:44] <arraybolt3> Most people who use Debian use Debian Stable.
[07:44] <arraybolt3> Most people who use Ubuntu use Ubuntu Desktop.
[07:44] <Beladona> whats sid?
[07:44] <matsaman> like I said, Ubuntu has no stable branch, so comparing it to a stable branch is apples & oranges
[07:44] <matsaman> Beladona: code name for Debian unstable
[07:44] <arraybolt3> Beladona: The easily broken development rolling release of Debian.
[07:44] <arraybolt3> matsaman: Philosophically, sure, but I'm talking practically.
[07:44] <Beladona> oh.. ubuntu is debian sid?
[07:45] <arraybolt3> Beladona: Not exactly.
[07:45] <arraybolt3> Ubuntu is *based on* Debian Sid, but the two are distinct (very distinct, in fact).
[07:45] <Beladona> I mean based on
[07:45] <Beladona> ok
[07:45] <Beladona> got it
[07:46] <matsaman> arraybolt3: it's practical but pointless, like comparing the modernity of a model T to a ford fiesta clone
[07:46] <arraybolt3> Not pointless if you care about not getting hacked :P
[07:46] <CosmicDJ> what? it's based on Sid? The launchpad page says it's based on Bullseye https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/mantic
[07:46] <matsaman> if you cared about getting hacked on a server, you wouldn't have Firefox installed
[07:46] <arraybolt3> I don't expect to convince you, but I do think you should consider whether your advise could land someone in a bad situation.
[07:46] <arraybolt3> CosmicDJ: LP is known for being notoriously out of date :P
[07:47] <arraybolt3> for some of its info
[07:47] <matsaman> packages like Firefox rarely have their very latest builds available on any distro anyway
[07:48] <matsaman> Ubuntu doesn't offer an ordinary package of Firefox's latest stable, for example
[07:49] <arraybolt3> sigh. I really want to believe that you just aren't getting my point, but I'm having a hard time doing that. The chances of getting hacked from an outdated dependency in many environments is relatively slim, so I'll abandon the conversation for now, but if you say Debian Stable has better security than Ubuntu LTS to someone in a security-sensitive
[07:49] <arraybolt3> situation, you may be giving them bad advice. Just sayin'. Like telling someone to use Arch rather than Ubuntu in a reliability-critical situation. Sure it *can* be reliable if you're super careful, but out of the box it sure isn't.
[07:49] <matsaman> Debian unstable does have the latest version
[07:49] <matsaman> I'm not getting your point, 'cause it's silly
[07:50] <matsaman> what do you mean "out of the box"? Are you comparing distro install processes now?
[07:50] <matsaman> these comparisons are completely, utterly apples & oranges
[07:51] <arraybolt3> "Out of the box" = using only what the distro provides by default, e.g. default repos, default settings, etc.
[07:52] <arraybolt3> It appears that everything I say that can be misunderstood is being misunderstood.
[07:52] <elias_a> arraybolt3: Very good point!
[07:52] <elias_a> arraybolt3: Both of them. :P
[07:53] <matsaman> not really, I didn't mention Arch at all, and the number of weasel words are, well, high
[07:53] <matsaman> stick to reality, it's easier
[07:54] <arraybolt3> matsaman: Stick to friendliness, it's easier.
[07:54] <arraybolt3> !coc | matsaman
[07:54] <matsaman> arraybolt3: hey now, calling someone unfriendly isn't very friendly
[07:55] <arraybolt3> matsaman: Realistically and objectively, Debian Stable does not always ship security updates in a timely fashion. Ubuntu does. Both are used as both desktop and server systems in near-identical use cases. The fact that they have operational differences under the hood is mostly irrelevant. That's how I'm comparing them.
[07:55] <matsaman> we've already been through this
[07:55] <matsaman> you are comparing Debian stable to Ubuntu unstable, it's pointless
[07:55] <arraybolt3> And telling someone that their saying someone's been unfriendly is itself unfriendly is a known manipulation tactic :P
[07:55] <arraybolt3> matsaman: lol, what? I said Debian Stable vs Ubuntu LTS.
[07:55] <matsaman> arraybolt3: is it? Then you can link me to it listed on the known manipulation tactics list
[07:56] <matsaman> Ubuntu LTS is not more stable than anything else at time of release
[07:56] <arraybolt3> Again, everything I say that can be misunderstood is being misunderstood.
[07:57] <matsaman> mmmhmmm
[08:09] <Beladona> what was the conclusion?
[08:09] <matsaman> Beladona: to what?
[08:10] <arraybolt3> If you mean to the argument above, there wasn't one. We both just sort of burned out :P
[08:10] <Beladona> ok
[08:10] <Beladona> :)
[08:11] <Beladona> for now matsaman , I am surviving with freebsd having debian guest via virtualbox inside it
[08:12] <matsaman> I'm sure you'll be fine either way
[08:27] <Beladona> I hope. but very weired errors on wacom and dependancies like luajit etc on freebsd
[08:27] <Beladona> freebsd ride was rollercoaster mateus-morais
[08:28] <Beladona> matsaman *
[11:57] <w13net> list
[12:54] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:55] <p0indexter> hi
[14:14] <spinningCat> hey
[14:14] <spinningCat> ubuntu cannot find my bluetooth headphone can someone help me about this?
[14:19] <ph88> i'm on 22.04 can i set my DNS server with the user interface?
[14:20] <ravage> ph88: yes
[14:20] <ph88> i think i found it, i was looking under network. but i had to look under wifi
[14:20] <ph88> is there a way to set the DNS server for all networks ?
[14:21] <ravage> dns is managed by interface in ubuntu
[14:21] <ph88> how can i check whether my new dns is into effect ? do i need to restart ?
[14:21] <ravage> if you want to change the global setting you need the command line
[14:22] <ravage> sudo resolvectl
[14:23] <ravage> it shows all dns servers for all interfaces. it also shows what manages the global setting
[14:23] <ravage> usually "resolv.conf mode: stub"
[14:24] <ph88> thanks ravage !
[14:25] <ph88> does someone know software that will block websites on a schedule ?
[14:30] <ph88> hmm seems a browser extension might be more useful here
[14:31] <toddc> ph88: their are many ways but I do it router side IPfire or PFsense or others
[14:32] <ph88> IPfire or PFsense .. do you use hardware for that? a router?
[14:32] <toddc> ph88: old desktop with 2 nicks or can be in vm
[14:35] <toddc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_and_firewall_distributions
[14:36] <toddc> their are also guides to build you own using ubuntu or ?? if you want do it your self
[14:37] <toddc> ph88: DansGuardian may aslo work on a single machine for that too
[14:45] <vcxza> hello. I can't install wine with apt. "E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/libsystemd0_249.11-0ubuntu3.9_i386.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 185.125.190.36 80] ". How can I solve this? thanks
[14:45] <uwu_linux_openbs> sudo apt update
[14:48] <vcxza> uwu_linux_openbs: thanks
[14:52] <manwhowouldbekin> Greetings! I have got my Ubuntu 22.04 machine in the following state. How can I proceed to fix it? https://pastebin.com/Axtw1neV
[14:56] <ravage> manwhowouldbekin: apt policy emacs26-common
[14:56] <uwu_linux_openbs> sudo apt autopurge
[14:57] <ravage> emacs26-common is not in the 22.04 repos
[14:57] <ravage> so you installed a 3rd party package. remove it and try again
[14:58] <ravage> https://github.com/ericj112/ppa-tool/blob/master/ppa-tool.sh can be helpful
[14:58] <manwhowouldbekin> @ravage, https://pastebin.com/BCacCuba
[14:59] <leftyfb> ravage: why would you recommend that over ppa-purge which is a package available in ubuntu?
[14:59] <ravage> i cant see emacs26-common in ubuntu
[15:00] <manwhowouldbekin> @uwu_linux_openbs, That command does not work either.
[15:00] <leftyfb> manwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove emacs26-common
[15:00] <manwhowouldbekin> leftyfb, Please see the latest paste. I have tried that. Gives same error.
[15:00] <leftyfb> manwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove --autoremove emacs*
[15:01] <manwhowouldbekin> leftyfb, Same issue persists afterwards.
[15:03] <leftyfb> manwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove --purge emacs-common emacs26-common emacs emacs-bin-common emacs-el emacs-gtk
[15:04] <manwhowouldbekin> leftyfb, Ok, thanks, that seems to have done it.
[16:15] <user44> Yo
[16:25] <LuckyMan> hi. How do I acess snap permissions on the new store?
[16:28] <LuckyMan> i want to give an app removable media permission so it can read my other disks and I can't
[16:30] <vcxza> is there a command line translator which uses google's translator?
[16:34] <CosmicDJ> vcxza: like https://packages.ubuntu.com/mantic/translate-shell ?
[16:35] <LuckyMan> I did it reading the snap documentation. Thanks
[16:40] <vcxza> thanks
[16:40] <vcxza> CosmicDJ: ^
[17:14] <NewtonPumpkin> what if we set up an ubuntu business platform, where ubuntu sets up profitable businesses using its userbase but the profit goes back into ubuntu and making software oss
[17:15] <NewtonPumpkin> like you can test a business model in funded but anyone can see what your logic was
[17:15] <ravage> NewtonPumpkin: this is a support channel. if you want to discuss Ubuntu use #ubuntu-discuss
[17:16] <NewtonPumpkin> ah, thanks for the pointer
[17:51] <Phoenix1789> Hi all !
[17:58] <arraybolt3> Welp, I have made a rather hilarious mistake.
[17:58] <arraybolt3> When exactly does `mv` delete files if you're moving them from one drive to another?
[17:58] <arraybolt3> Does it delete things "as it goes", or does it do all the deletion at the end of the operation, once everything's copied?
[17:59] <arraybolt3> Asking because I did a `mv ~/ISOs /ezstore/` to try to move all my ISO files to my external drive, then ran a system update that asked to reboot the computer. I forgot I was mid-ISO-move, and rebooted.
[18:00] <oerheks> i think after successful copy?
[18:01] <rbox> arraybolt3: you can add -v to mv and it shows what its doing
[18:02] <arraybolt3> This is "post-mortem" though. I already have an interrupted move and am trying to work out how to recover.
[18:02] <rbox> well you can create a test file and mv it...
[18:02] <arraybolt3> I guess I could try a move to see what happens though.
[18:03] <arraybolt3> Looks like it does all the moving of things at the end.
[18:06] <arraybolt3> all the deleting of things I mean
[18:06] <arraybolt3> so I just nuked the incomplete move and am redoing it.
[18:11] <arraybolt3> rbox: Thanks, I didn't know about the -v switch.
[18:18] <commentiamola> ciao
[18:18] <commentiamola> chi chatta?
[19:03] <iconoclasthero> Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS x86_64 6.2.0-35-generic
[19:03] <iconoclasthero> all of a sudden, i am no longer able to access this desktop/server from e.g., https://whatever.myhost.com or for icecast http://icecast.myhost.com:port/mpd96.opus or http://##.###.##.###:port.
[19:04] <iconoclasthero> so it isn't the way cloud flare is set up.
[19:04] <iconoclasthero> i can access these services locally using the local ip address 192.168.1.2
[19:04] <iconoclasthero> localhost, etc.
[19:05] <iconoclasthero> but when I tried to reset the router, chrome timed out getting to it, but I was able to access and reset it from my phone
[19:06] <iconoclasthero> haven't logged into it in a while so nothing's changed there.
[19:06] <mrlinuxnerd> taking a m2 SSD from one laptop to another, all working fine before switching, the other laptop says "2101 detection error" Is there a way to access the disc even though fdisk -l does not show it?
[19:07] <mrlinuxnerd> WHICH IS weird since both laptops are the same brand AND SAME MODEL
[19:07] <iconoclasthero> i'm running an nginx reverse proxy to get to (mainly) audiobookshelf, but ssh and mosh aren't working either.
[19:08] <iconoclasthero> ufw is disabled.
[19:08] <iconoclasthero> nothing appreciable changed since last night when it was working.
[19:09] <iconoclasthero> mrlinux, do the laptops have the same bios version?
[19:09] <iconoclasthero> I don't have any idea why that would cause the problem, but if they're the same model, maybe that is *A* difference
[19:11] <mrlinuxnerd> iconoclasthero: yes model and same BIOS version. The disc is encrypted.
[19:12] <iconoclasthero> well that's pretty important I would think
[19:13] <iconoclasthero> I won't bore you with the whole story, but is the plug in?
[19:13] <iconoclasthero> i.e., the contacts on the drive are clean and all that good stuff?
[19:15] <iconoclasthero> I tried to ssh from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.2 and I got this error: WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!
[19:16] <iconoclasthero> It is also possible that a host key has just been changed.
[19:16] <iconoclasthero> and that is possible, i might have done something with that.
[19:17] <mrlinuxnerd> yes, everything is clean and powercycle before and after etc.
[19:18] <iconoclasthero> I would see if the encryption is tied to the serial number of the machine.
[19:18] <iconoclasthero> or something like that.
[19:20] <iconoclasthero> bind9/named is spitting this out Oct 29 14:51:37 server named[1226]: creating TCP socket: address in use
[19:20] <iconoclasthero> Oct 29 14:51:37 server named[1226]: invalid command from 127.0.0.1#42325: bad auth
[19:30] <iconoclasthero> well i disabled ipv6 and the error in bind9/named went away,
[19:31] <BlackNoir> Hi guys. I'm new to Linux OS or Ubuntu. Any tips for beginner?
[19:32] <cosmicwonder> BlackNoir: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-tips-for-new-Linux-Ubuntu-users
[19:33] <BlackNoir> cosmicwonder: Thanks.
[19:33] <cosmicwonder> heres a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=lmeDvSgN6zY&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dubuntu%26channel%3Dfs%26q%3Dubuntu%2Blinux%2Bbeginner%2Btips%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
[19:33] <cosmicwonder> that was titled Ubuntu Beginner's Guide, looked helpful
[19:34] <iconoclasthero> blacknoir: get familiar with the command line
[19:34] <cosmicwonder> BlackNoir: i hope you love linux/ubuntu! linux is the only way to go imo'
[19:34] <cosmicwonder> yes definitely learn the command line
[19:35] <iconoclasthero> however you find your way into that, i.e., videos or whatever, that really is the secret to linux.
[19:35] <cosmicwonder> oh and BlackNoir, there's another channel you should check out: #linux. i'm on there and it's the linux support IRC channel
[19:35] <mrlinuxnerd> iconoclasthero: perhaps, but I don't think it is. Anyhow, I'll try with an external mount via USB to se if I can shred and format it as ext4
[19:36] <BlackNoir> Yeah I just joined there, thanks cosmicwonder
[19:36] <cosmicwonder> np
[19:37] <BlackNoir> iconoclasthero: Yeah but I need the fundamentals to know to get a grasp on its system i'll try to find some books for it
[19:37] <iconoclasthero> like i said, however you find your way into it.
[20:16] <Guest37> join ft42
[21:07] <ueberall> Hi. If "file" identifies a library/binary as "ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked", can I be *sure* that it can run on an actual Intel 80386 and does not include code that requires an i486/i586 cpu? I'm asking because binutils (and some other packages) have "i686" in their name and in the paste, distributions like Mandrake/Mandriva explicitly compiled their binaries optimized for the i586. Is there an
[21:07] <ueberall> authoritative explanation regarding the naming somewhere?
[21:08] <ueberall> s /paste/past/
[21:09] <hellscaped> dude i've been partitioning this drive for like 15 minutes now how long does it take to create 1 ext2 drive???
[21:09] <hellscaped> 2 tb btw
[21:09] <cosmicwonder> it's gonna take a little longer hellscaped
[21:09] <cosmicwonder> like 30 minutes at least
[21:09] <hellscaped> jesus
[21:10] <leftyfb> hellscaped: ext2?
[21:10] <Habbie> what, why would that take so long
[21:11] <iconoclasthero> ^ +1
[21:11] <iconoclasthero> are you moving an existing partition?
[21:12] <hellscaped> yea ext2
[21:13] <hellscaped> its a hard drive not an ssd btw
[21:13] <iconoclasthero> if you're moving data it takes a while.
[21:13] <Habbie> ah, right
[21:13] <hellscaped> I used to use it back years ago when I used windows so it was ntfs
[21:13] <leftyfb> hellscaped: why are you using ext2?
[21:13] <hellscaped> what kde put by default is ext2
[21:13] <iconoclasthero> another good question
[21:14] <leftyfb> don't
[21:14] <leftyfb> use ext4
[21:14] <hellscaped> its already been 15 minutes
[21:15] <leftyfb> hellscaped: up to you. IF you don't care about the data on it, by all means, stick with ext2
[21:15] <leftyfb> ext2 isn't journaled
[21:16] <hellscaped> oh shi ok
[21:22] <hellscaped> im back
[21:49] <rbox> ueberall: no, the elf format has nothing to do with what compiler optimziations or march it was set for
[21:49] <rbox> ueberall: the kernel doesnt even support 386 anymore
[22:44] <sanni> guys
[22:45] <sanni> help me
[22:45] <sanni> who can help me
[22:45] <F3D0R4> s
[22:45] <leftyfb> !ask | F3D0R4
[22:45] <F3D0R4> !how can install hexchat
[22:47] <Bashing-om> !info hexchat
[22:47] <JanC> they are already gone
[22:47] <leftyfb> they left
[22:48] <Bashing-om> drive bye shoters !
[22:50] <form76> Is there some way to choose which packages install during setup with the desktop iso? I don't want LibreOffice or a bunch of other random junk.
[22:50] <leftyfb> form76: no, just remove them after
[22:51] <form76> I remember installing... I don't know, RedHat in 2005 or so and was able to choose packages. A long time ago, I know.
[22:51] <leftyfb> form76: Ubuntu is not Redhat
[22:51] <ravage> if you want a minimal system  install Ubuntu server
[22:51] <form76> thanks, that's really helpful. I'll try to remember they're not the same thing!
[22:52] <form76> ravage How hard is it to install Gnome on server?
[22:52] <ravage> sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop
[22:53] <form76> it's really that simple?
[22:53] <ravage> it is that simple
[22:53] <form76> wow, thanks
[22:54] <rbox> running a few apt purge commands on first boot is immensly easier
[22:54] <rbox> although isn't that checkbox in the installer
[22:54] <rbox> present it from installing libreoffice?
[22:55] <form76> Maybe I'm going to quickly through the installer and not reading everything, but I usually end up removing at least 40-50 packages after install
[22:55] <leftyfb> form76: guess what is a dependency of ubuntu-desktop?
[22:56] <leftyfb> libreoffice and 1129 other packages
[22:56] <ravage> there is ubuntu-desktop-minimal
[22:56] <leftyfb> as rbox pointed out, it's going to be a lot better experience installing Ubuntu desktop proper and then just remove what you don't want
[22:56] <ravage> thats what the installer used to offer too. at least on 22.04
[22:56] <ravage> i dont know about newer versions
[22:58] <form76> so I should install ubuntu-desktop-minimal if I don't want a ton of unnecessary packages?
[22:58] <leftyfb> I prefer to have my system fully working and integrated and then remove packages I don't want. Otherwise you're spending time trying to figure out why sound or printing doesn't work right
[22:58] <form76> I don't need sound, printing, office software, games
[22:58] <form76> bluetooth
[22:59] <ravage> the minimal desktop package has all you need really
[22:59] <ravage> it just does not have some preinstalled software
[22:59] <form76> I'll give that a try
[23:00] <ravage> but you can really do that from the desktop installer form76
[23:00] <ravage> on 23.10 it is even the default https://i.imgur.com/a6aTZJg.png
[23:00] <form76> Where am I missing the setting?
[23:00] <ravage> on 22.04 for example you have to select minimal
[23:00] <ravage> the selection is hard to miss really
[23:05] <form76> where are the installed packages defined? Is that easily editable?
[23:06] <ravage> no
[23:07] <form76> I have a very slow laptop with 32GB soldered emmc
[23:07] <ravage> then maybe try a more lightweight distro in general
[23:07] <form76> any suggestions?
[23:07] <ravage> maybe something like xubuntu
[23:08] <ravage> https://xubuntu.org/requirements/
[23:40] <bray90820> Is it just me or is the installer of ubuntu 23.10 super slow
[23:41] <rbox> just you
[23:42] <Zumo> also try to install the LTS version. https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
[23:46] <form76> Is it just me or is this page missing all the content? I can see subheadings on the let but the right half of the page is empty https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop
[23:48] <oerheks> form76, correct, i see that too.
[23:48] <ravage> form76: same here. there is a link to report that in the footer
[23:49] <oerheks> other tutorials are fine. so just this one?
[23:49] <form76> Dunno, I was just looking for the tool to write the ISO to a flash drive from Ubuntu.
[23:50] <oerheks> !usb
[23:50] <oerheks> just use the usb-creator tool, standard
[23:50] <ravage> form76: from Ubuntu you use "startup disk creator"
[23:50] <form76> thanks
[23:50] <oerheks> have fun!