[00:01] <meena> this sounds confusing, https://jobsfordevelopers.com/jobs/gcp-cloud-engineer-ii-at-rackspace-com-oct-26-2023-f89122
[00:20] <minimal> meena: I didn't know Microsoft and Linux were languages lol
[00:20] <minimal> I guess Bash could be "loosely" described as a configuration management system ;-)
[00:24] <minimal> holmanb: apparently virt-install is deprecated in RHEL8+ https://blog.wikichoon.com/2020/06/virt-manager-deprecated-in-rhel.html
[00:26] <minimal> holmanb: "some advantage to not using virt-install?" it maybe not be packaged for a particular distro? It's just a frontend to creating/manipulating libvirtd's XML which, as the article I earlier referenced, you can do directly
[01:18] <holmanb> minimal: "Also, I'm distinguishing virt-manager UI from the virt-manager project, which includes tools like virt-install. I fully expect virt-install to be shipped in RHEL9 and actively maintained (FWIW Cockpit uses it behind the scenes)." 
[01:19] <holmanb> minimal: that's from the blog post you linked
[01:19] <holmanb> So virt-install isn't going anywhere I guess? 
[01:28] <minimal> holmanb: doh! Once again my own fault from not reading the whole article in details lol. Strange though: " I'm distinguishing virt-manager UI from the virt-manager project", I thought virt-manager was basically really just a UI
[01:29] <minimal> anyway to restate once again, libvirtd does not require or assume virt-install, it's just an optional easy way to create VMs rather than manipulating the XML descriptions using virsh
[07:37] <holmanb> minimal all good 
[07:38] <holmanb> For me though I prefer a front end to xml. Hurts my brain and I'd rather just not, though I see what you're saying.
[07:43] <holmanb> I remember using expat years ago to write a high performance XML parser in C
[07:43]  * holmanb shudders
[07:44] <holmanb> That was a project I was tasked with ^^
[07:45] <holmanb> What I didn't know at the time was that the performance bottleneck was in the serialization of data, not the deserialization.
[07:46] <holmanb> so my effort was wasted - had I just used perf I could have saved myself a lot of pain
[07:49] <holmanb> I later rewrote the whole tool by reverse engineering the underlying library (it was undocumented and I didn't have the source) and calling the symbols that did what I wanted.
[07:52] <holmanb> Then I found the source and felt pretty dumb for having figured out the library by trial and error.
[07:52] <holmanb> That implementation was fast enough, but in retrospect I don't think anyone actually expected me to solve the problem they asked me to solve.
[07:53] <holmanb> And I'm sure the code I wrote back then was horrifying 
[08:16] <holmanb> it was one of those: let's give the new guy a hard problem and no direction and see what happens
[08:19] <holmanb> sink or swim is an awful thing to do to people but it was the culture there
[13:26] <meena> 07:52 <holmanb> That implementation was fast enough, but in retrospect I don't think anyone actually expected me to solve the problem they asked me to solve. ← hah!