[16:02] <ddstreet> o/
[16:02] <ddstreet> mapreri teward around?
[16:03] <teward> *flops in*
[16:03] <ddstreet> good morning!
[16:03] <teward> send coffee
[16:03] <teward> genii: go fetch The Big Coffee Pot, the caffeine is required!
[16:03] <teward> :P
[16:04] <ddstreet> must have caffeine!
[16:04] <ddstreet> not sure if mapreri is able to make it today, i don't think he accepted the invite
[16:05] <ddstreet> i guess let's give him a few more minutes and then start
[16:06] <teward> good that lets me brew a coffee xD
[16:08] <ddstreet> ok ready when you are teward
[16:09] <teward> ye gimme a minute
[16:09] <teward> coffee maker is slow to heat today
[16:10] <ddstreet> i'll go ahead and start just to get thru the administrative previous action item stuff
[16:10] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backports Team
[16:10] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:10:26 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:10] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:10] <ddstreet> #topic previous action items
[16:10] <ddstreet> i think almost all these are carry-overs so i'll run through them quick
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:11] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:11] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)
[16:11] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)
[16:11] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet send short policy wording proposal to ML regarding https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-March/023030.html
[16:11] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet send short policy wording proposal to ML regarding https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-March/023030.html
[16:11] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet send short policy wording proposal to ML regarding https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-March/023030.html
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet review cockpit backport uploads
[16:11] <ddstreet> i did this one! :-)
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet ping email to keep thread alive: clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions
[16:12] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet ping email to keep thread alive: clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet ping email to keep thread alive: clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet sched next mtg oct 25
[16:12] <ddstreet> did that one too! :)
[16:12] <ddstreet> i'll run thru mapreri's as well since he's not here
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #action mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)
[16:12] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Debian bug 1001399 in lintian "lintian: adjust backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number for ubuntu" [Normal, Open]
[16:12] <ddstreet> #action mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri review wiki page to see how we can highlight that backport requestors need to do the backport work and find a sponsor (carried over)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #action mapreri review wiki page to see how we can highlight that backport requestors need to do the backport work and find a sponsor (carried over)
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri review wiki page to see how we can highlight that backport requestors need to do the backport work and find a sponsor (carried over)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri start thread on ML about how to use bug status to define meaing in process (carried over)
[16:13] <ddstreet> #action mapreri start thread on ML about how to use bug status to define meaing in process (carried over)
[16:13] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri start thread on ML about how to use bug status to define meaing in process (carried over)
[16:13] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward make sure there are no bugs in requestbackport and backportpackage tools (in lunar) (carried over)
[16:13] <ddstreet> assume i should carry this over teward?
[16:13] <teward> ye
[16:13] <ddstreet> #action teward make sure there are no bugs in requestbackport and backportpackage tools (in lunar) (carried over)
[16:13] <meetingology> ACTION: teward make sure there are no bugs in requestbackport and backportpackage tools (in lunar) (carried over)
[16:13] <teward>  #NeverEnoughCycles
[16:13] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) consider documenting an SLA for reviewing uploaded backport packages
[16:13] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) consider documenting an SLA for reviewing uploaded backport packages
[16:13] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) consider documenting an SLA for reviewing uploaded backport packages
[16:13] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) check if backports pocket uploads and/or approvals go to a ML (carried over)
[16:13] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) check if backports pocket uploads and/or approvals go to a ML (carried over)
[16:13] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) check if backports pocket uploads and/or approvals go to a ML (carried over)
[16:14] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) if no ML for backports uploads/approvals, check on how to create one (carried over)
[16:14] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) if no ML for backports uploads/approvals, check on how to create one (carried over)
[16:14] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) if no ML for backports uploads/approvals, check on how to create one (carried over)
[16:14] <ddstreet> indeed i always think i'll be able to find time but rarely do
[16:14] <ddstreet> ok that's all previous items
[16:14] <ddstreet> #topic open ML threads
[16:14] <ddstreet> #subtopic clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions
[16:15] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2022-February/022680.html
[16:15] <ddstreet> i think we need to carry this one
[16:15] <teward> yup
[16:15] <ddstreet> #action clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions (carried over)
[16:15] <meetingology> ACTION: clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions (carried over)
[16:16] <ddstreet> #subtopic staging grub 2.12 backports in backports pocket during 24.04 developement cycle
[16:16] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-October/023128.html
[16:17] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-November/023150.html (my reply asking for clarification)
[16:17] <ddstreet> teward not sure if you read his email yet, but i'm not totally clear on what he's asking about?
[16:18] <ddstreet> juliank in case you're around ^
[16:18] <teward> i havent - i have a ton of higher priority CC-hat emails drifting around
[16:19] <ddstreet> ok, let's just leave this one in the ML then, my reply was recent so let's give him some time to follow up
[16:19] <ddstreet> i'll keep it on the open threads
[16:19] <ddstreet> #action staging grub 2.12 backports in backports pocket during 24.04 developement cycle
[16:19] <meetingology> ACTION: staging grub 2.12 backports in backports pocket during 24.04 developement cycle
[16:19] <teward> i mean I don't see a benefit of this being in backports if its quirky and not stable
[16:19] <ddstreet> right, me neither
[16:20] <ddstreet> i assumed i must have misunderstood what he was proposing
[16:20] <teward> grub* is one of those things I dont think can be safely backported either without extreme care, hence why SRU/security processes cover it
[16:20] <teward> (using backports as staging isnt what backports is for)
[16:21] <ddstreet> yeah total agreement on that
[16:21] <ddstreet> #subtopic https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-October/023129.html
[16:21] <teward> (this is what Experimental is for Debian Unstable but I digress)
[16:21] <ddstreet> #undo
[16:21] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC
[16:21] <ddstreet> #subtopic Backport uploads to non-LTS releases
[16:21] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2023-October/023129.html
[16:21] <ddstreet> this is for the cockpit uploads to the non-LTS releases
[16:22] <ddstreet> our current policy is to only allow specifically exempted packages to get backported to non-LTS
[16:22] <ddstreet> my email was just to revisit that (in general, not specifically for cockpit pkgs)
[16:23] <teward> i think cockpit is an exception not the rule.  the problem with interim releases is a lot of times backporting in interim can happen but then get lost in the chain
[16:23] <teward> historically it overloaded backporters
[16:23] <ddstreet> so it's probably better to keep the restriction but allow an exception for cockpit you think?
[16:24] <ddstreet> i'm fine either way, and i can see how it would overload us if it becomes more common
[16:24] <teward> imo there will always be exceptions
[16:24] <teward> on an adhoc basis or as needed
[16:24] <teward> but yes cockpit is one i would give as an exception
[16:24] <teward> and also add to our no-bug-needed backports list (its a special case)
[16:25] <ddstreet> i don't think we currently have any formal exception process for it currently, you think we need to define one, or just have informal exception agreements during our normal meetings?
[16:25] <teward> if it becomes more common, we can create formal processes.  for now as long as we are quorate on exceptions we should be OK
[16:26] <teward> i dont see us granting a lot of exceptions
[16:26] <ddstreet> agreed
[16:26] <ddstreet> ok so we're quorate (since we have 2/3 today) and we both agree to keep the non-LTS restriction but also to give an exception to cockpit (and cockpit-podman, cockpit-machines) for non-LTS and no-bug-required
[16:27] <ddstreet> right?
[16:27] <ddstreet> i can update our wiki page to add its exception if so
[16:27] <teward> if you are in agreement with me on all that then yes
[16:27] <ddstreet> yep i am
[16:27] <ddstreet> ok i'll update the exception list
[16:27] <teward> then go right ahead and update the wiki
[16:27] <teward> yep
[16:28] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update exception list to add cockpit, cockpit-machines, cockpit-podman
[16:28] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet update exception list to add cockpit, cockpit-machines, cockpit-podman
[16:28] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports#Allowed_in_non-LTS_releases
[16:28] <ddstreet> for my reference
[16:28] <ddstreet> ok i think that's all the ML threads unless i missed something
[16:29] <ddstreet> #topic open bugs needing discussion
[16:29] <ddstreet> I don't see any open bugs, and i went through the upload queues earlier today
[16:29] <ddstreet> i'll handle the cockpit uploads to non-LTS releases
[16:29] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet review cockpit uploads to non-LTS releases
[16:29] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet review cockpit uploads to non-LTS releases
[16:29] <teward> perfect
[16:30] <ddstreet> #topic AOB
[16:30] <ddstreet> i think we've covered everything?
[16:30] <ddstreet> anything else?
[16:30] <teward> ddstreet: make a note that exceptions are evaluated on a case by case basis
[16:30] <ddstreet> yep
[16:30] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet note in wiki exceptions are evalated on a case by case basis
[16:30] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet note in wiki exceptions are evalated on a case by case basis
[16:31] <ddstreet> next mtg date?
[16:31] <ddstreet> #subtopic next mtg date
[16:31] <ddstreet> i think 4 wks gets into the holidays
[16:31] <teward> and are for exceptional cases NOT regular cases (so there has to be real strong support for an exception case for it to be approved)
[16:31] <teward> ye 4 weeks is right in holiday weeks
[16:31] <teward> we may be able to skip and just do an early january meeting in place of it
[16:31] <teward> if theres no objections
[16:31] <ddstreet> yeah let's move it to jan
[16:32] <ddstreet> works for me
[16:32] <teward> (email mapreri though to make sure they are OK with it)
[16:32] <ddstreet> yep
[16:32] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet email mapreri (and list) to pick next mtg date (probably in jan)
[16:32] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet email mapreri (and list) to pick next mtg date (probably in jan)
[16:33] <ddstreet> i think either jan 3 or jan 10 is most likely, probably jan 10 in case any of us is out right after the new year
[16:33] <ddstreet> but i'll email
[16:33] <teward> i'm always around by jan3 xD
[16:33] <ddstreet> lol i *probably* will be over my hangover by then ;-)
[16:33] <teward> IT Security never sleeps though so.  :P
[16:34] <ddstreet> yeah you might be around jan 1 in that line of work :)
[16:34] <teward> well thats a day off but technically you're right
[16:34] <teward> emergency or smth
[16:34] <ddstreet> hope that pager doesn't go off at 12:01am jan 1 ;-P
[16:34] <teward> lol
[16:35] <teward> well i am gonna go get food i'm hungry
[16:35] <ddstreet> sounds good and i think we're wrapped up!
[16:35] <ddstreet> thanks!
[16:35] <teward> if theres no other business?
[16:35] <teward> perfect thank you!  *disappears to lunch*
[16:35] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[16:35] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:35:23 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-11-29-16.10.moin.txt
[16:35] <ddstreet> thanks! o/
[16:39] <juliank> ddstreet: I'll reply on the mailing list, I lost track of it, but suffice it to say: currently all releases are on 2.06; they'll all be on 2.12 in like May, but we want people to be able to try out 2.12 before that easily (and keep -proposed free for critical 2.06 updates)
[17:22]  * genii slides the industrial sized vat of tepid coffee in teward's direction