/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2023/12/29/#lubuntu-devel.txt

arraybolt3can someone think of an arbitrary app that still uses GTK 2 off the top of their heads?00:05
arraybolt3trying to test theming changes00:05
lubot[matrix] <kc2bez> not sure what is left00:05
lubot[matrix] <kc2bez> claws mail maybe00:06
arraybolt3nope, even that's gtk 300:07
arraybolt3sheesh, it's like all of LXDE is GTK3 now?!00:09
arraybolt3unbelievable. I thought LXDE was all GTK2-land still.00:10
* arraybolt3 installs Lazarus IDE, that's the only one I know of that's for sure still GTK200:11
arraybolt3unless of course it's been changed since then, but even the latest releases were still stuck there last I saw00:11
arraybolt3alrighty, it worked00:16
lubot[matrix] <kc2bez> Nice00:17
arraybolt3I'm a bit worried about shipping these default config files the way I'm doing them - I'm putting them under /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc and /usr/share/gtk-3.0/settings.ini, which sounds like I am just *begging* to cause a file conflict...00:22
arraybolt3I should find out if there are XDG-compliant locations to put those.00:22
lubot[matrix] <kc2bez> I think there should be. I don't have them off the top of my head but I feel like we should have some other examples in default settings already.00:24
* guiverc still uses hexchat here, it's GTK2 still as far as I can see...00:26
lubot[matrix] <kc2bez> Ah, I forgot about that one.00:27
arraybolt3well GTK2 allows me to set it via XDG. GTK3 is being more stubborn though.00:33
arraybolt3grrr, may have to use gsettings to untangle this00:40
arraybolt3I really hope not though, I don't get why two of the default locations for settings.ini work but the only one that I really want to work doesn't work.00:41
arraybolt3wow, gsettings doesn't work either00:49
arraybolt3hmm, going to have to ask someone more knowledgable about GNOME what to do I guess.00:49
=== guiverc2 is now known as guiverc
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Can't you set GTK themes within LXQt itself?01:18
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Also, bah, GTK 2 can go the way of Qt 4 :P01:18
arraybolt3Yes, but it's setting them in user-specific methods.01:18
arraybolt3hahaha GTK2 worked, GTK3 is what's broken01:18
arraybolt3*user-specific locations01:18
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> (Historical context for those who don't know: I'm the one who specifically told the archive admins to remove Qt 4, and I'll be going on the same warpath for Qt 5 soon enough. :P)01:19
arraybolt3for some reason I can set the GTK3 theme in a user-specific location, and in the seriously sledgehammer-level distro-wide location, but not in the "default but try not to break anything" location under /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu.01:19
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> I remember Adam joking once he did the final removal, "okay, let's do GTK 2 next!"01:19
* arraybolt3 misses Plasma 4 :(01:20
arraybolt3at any rate, spinning up a VM to rule out the possibility of a corrupted system on my end. My dev VM has been through some... trials... under my rule.01:20
arraybolt3not quite as bad as what guiverc puts his through though01:21
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> So, the user level settings are actually copied over from the XDG directory. They're not layered like they should be.01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> 01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> In an ideal world, if we changed a default setting and the user didn't override it, that default setting should just carry over to their config. The users' config really only has to have Δ(default, theirs), not theirs01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> 01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> I have a feeling the location of your bug is going to be in LXQt itself. Perhaps lxqt-session since that's where startlxqt lives01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Re: Plasma 4 XD01:22
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/207bd934/file_10306.jpg01:22
arraybolt3tsimonq2: I don't have any user-level GTK 3 setting set when this happens :P01:23
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> So, LXQt should set the appropriate user level setting, shouldn't it? :P01:23
arraybolt3so, full picture: /usr/share/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (exists), /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (doesn't exist), ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (doesn't exist) <-- this combo works01:23
guivercdon't worry @tsimonq2, I see support stuff for Qt4 on occasion; and my paste includes ref to https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/removing-qt-4-from-ubuntu-before-the-20-04-release/12295 & ML :)01:23
guiverc(thus everyone knows it's Simon's fault !)01:24
arraybolt3 /usr/share/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (doesn't exist), /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (exists), ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (doesn't exist) <-- this combo doesn't work01:24
* guiverc said ^ tongue in cheek :)01:24
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> LMFAO guiverc :)))01:24
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt-config/blob/master/lxqt-config-appearance/gtkconfig.cpp#L8001:27
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> /me motions for genii to bring arraybolt3 some more coffee01:27
arraybolt3hmm, interesting question, do we even *have* an xsettingsd in Lubuntu?01:28
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> "So what about GTK 4 themes?" Good question, was thinking the same thing myself. :P01:28
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> That's a good one. I'm not sure. Let's look at default settings?01:28
arraybolt3GTK4 is mostly libadwaita which has "Stop Theming My App!" as its mantra.01:28
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Sigh. That'll be fun01:29
arraybolt3libadwaita is intentionally difficult to theme. Most GTK4 stuff that I know of is also libadwaita, so... yeah.01:29
arraybolt3for now GTK4 can stick out like a sore thumb and like it that way :P01:29
* genii meets Juan Valdez at the border, obtains freshly roasted premium contraband beans, paddles his canoe back to where the aeropress is to prepare a coffee for arraybolt301:30
arraybolt3tsimonq2: https://valadoc.org/gtk+-3.0/Gtk.Settings.html this is why I ask about xsettingsd01:31
arraybolt3if GTK3 can get settings from it, it ignores everything else it seems.01:31
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> bah bah bah01:31
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> this is why we aren't a GTK shop y'all :P01:32
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> *grumbles in greybeard*01:32
lubot[matrix] <arraybolt3> GTK is awful.01:32
lubot[matrix] <arraybolt3> In all forms and at all times.01:32
lubot[matrix] <arraybolt3> but anyway, bikeshedding aside, /me thinks my ISO DL just finished01:32
arraybolt3(I've actually tried to do some GTK programming before. I say tried because it was very painful even trying to use their fancy Vala language.)01:34
* genii slides arraybolt3 and tsimonq2 fresh mugs, then wanders back to the beer fridge01:35
arraybolt3ok so we do not have xsettingsd in Lubuntu, confirmed01:36
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> /me gives genii a bow and thanks him for the kind gesture01:36
* arraybolt3 wishes virtual coffee weren't quite so virtual01:36
arraybolt3(I take back what I said about GTK - it is frustrating in many ways, but it works, and I have used it and liked it before, I'm just particularly not fond of it this moment since it's being tricky.)01:38
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> ;)01:38
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> (That's the right way to put it, despite the ephemeral rage it produces.)01:39
arraybolt3alright, fresh VM, tried putting settings.ini in the XDG location, no dice.01:40
arraybolt3no xsettingsd, no user config to get in the way, settings are probably in the wrong place but for no reason I can tell, and they're getting silently ignored.01:41
arraybolt3aaaand I just Ctrl+C'd my QEMU instance trying to stop a different program. Fun.01:41
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> *bonks arraybolt3*01:45
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Ready to use virt-manager yet my friend? 😁01:45
arraybolt3nope :P01:45
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> *shrug* alright LMAO01:46
arraybolt3well... there's one heavy-handed way to get GTK to comply once and for all here, but it's a bit severe.01:49
arraybolt3patch startlxqt01:49
arraybolt3it's just a script, it sets environment variables as part of what it does, we could just set GTK_THEME in there. Though the user might have trouble overriding it thereafter...01:50
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> So, if you set the theme to something else it works, just the default isn't working? Am I reading that correctly?01:51
arraybolt3yeah that's not overridable without setting the env var to something else.01:51
arraybolt3Correct, if I set the theme to something else, works just fine.01:51
arraybolt3If I set the default, it gets ignored.01:51
arraybolt3Regardless of whether the user has any config set or not.01:51
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/a4f86aaa/huntingwabbits_huntingbuggs.mp401:52
arraybolt3well. I'm tired and think this is probably a lost cause for the time being. I asked a question in the GTK Matrix room, we'll see if someone notices. I have to go afk for a bit, I may be back later or even soon.01:58
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Our XDG handling has always been a hot button issue for LXQt because I'm 100% convinced we're the only LXQt distro that ships the XDG spec as designed01:58
arraybolt3Probably will work some more on the updater when I get back.01:58
arraybolt3tsimonq2: yikes01:58
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> So I'd triple check XDG vars. As an *absolute last case scenario* if you can't figure it out, yeah just add a conditional to startlxqt which says "iff [if and only if] there is no existing GTK 3 config, copy over ours" or something01:59
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> That likelihood seems high. (re @tsimonq2: Our XDG handling has always been a hot button issue for LXQt because I'm 100% convinced we're the only LXQt distro that ships the XDG spec as designed)01:59
arraybolt3omw I think I just found it02:00
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> ohhhhhhhh?02:00
arraybolt3I found it!02:01
arraybolt3 /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini was forcing Yaru as the theme.02:01
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> AHAHAHAHAHA02:01
arraybolt3because libgtk-3.0 ships it02:01
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Oh gawd. Okay.02:01
arraybolt3so now we have to tell someone that that's a big no-no or fix whatever code gives that file higher priority.02:01
arraybolt3(probably the latter :-/)02:01
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Sounds like I'm doing my second ever gtk-3.0 upload :P02:01
arraybolt3orrr....02:02
arraybolt3 /etc is given higher priority than /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu in $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS it looks like.02:02
arraybolt3how 'bout we flip that around?02:02
arraybolt3(I think later fields in the list are higher priorities than earlier ones right?)02:03
arraybolt3hmm, I can see that going south though02:03
arraybolt3really I think libgtk-3.0 shouldn't be shipping that file, that's a very heavy-handed location for it to be in.02:03
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Absolute +1, could you see what happens when you remove it?02:03
arraybolt3Already did.02:04
arraybolt3It makes it work.02:04
arraybolt3(just moved the settings.ini to settings.ini.old)02:04
arraybolt3Putting it back breaks it again.02:04
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Well, well, well. Kay, I'll take care of GTK 3. Is jbicha still here on the IRC side or did he dip out after the Summit?02:05
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> We should also see what switching those env vars around actually does..02:05
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> ACTUALLY...02:05
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> I know you're right on that one too. Remember, for the live environment, we're doing some of SDDM's work since the session name doesn't match02:05
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> That puts xdg-Lubuntu *before* XDG02:06
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> (If that makes sense)02:06
arraybolt3yeah, lower in priority02:06
arraybolt3right now /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu is lowest, then /etc/xdg, then /etc, then /usr/share.02:06
arraybolt3or... is that backwards?02:07
arraybolt3I can't tell, ERR:BRAINFRIED02:07
arraybolt3something has to take priority over something, and right now the priorities are out of whack, that's all I know.02:07
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Yeah that's backwards go take your break :) we found the issue tbh02:07
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Er, the more I think about it, the more I wonder about that config file...02:08
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> There should be *some* default in the actual source package but it shouldn't be Yaru, that should be an Ubuntu thing02:08
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> I'd laugh if GTK 3 actually depends on Yaru. If it doesn't, technically speaking that's a bug in and of itself.02:09
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Anyway, looks like I'm uploading SDDM as well heh02:09
arraybolt3Will upload lubuntu-default-settings when I get back.02:10
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> (I'm thinking, don't quote me on that yet; this may end up being tomorrow or EOY anyway)02:10
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Thank you :D02:10
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> @Eickmeyer @RikMills hi there's a chance I'll have to screw with an SDDM patch soon for more XDG handing goodies. Y'all care if it doesn't break your stuff?02:11
lubot[telegram] <Eickmeyer> Plz don't break it kthx (re @tsimonq2: @Eickmeyer @RikMills hi there's a chance I'll have to screw with an SDDM patch soon for more XDG handling goodies. Y'all care, if it doesn't break your stuff?)02:12
arraybolt3Just had Lubuntu Noble place me in Denver with the timezone detection. We are officially not bugged!02:50
arraybolt3oh nice, just got Cala to crash my whole X server02:51
arraybolt3um...02:51
EickmeyerI just wish Canonical's tzdata wouldn't place me in mountain time every time I'm in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Everything in Idaho is in Pacific time north of the Salmon River.02:52
arraybolt3well hey, I started my VM with the wrong options anyway so I guess that was a helpful crash.02:52
arraybolt3Eickmeyer: :-/02:52
arraybolt3IMO timezone detection is slightly... pointless? I mean does MS get it any more right than Canonical does?02:53
EickmeyerYes. Yes they do.02:53
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> I always show up in NY :P02:53
arraybolt3well maybe one day they'll hand over their secret sauce to Canonical in exchange for WSL :P02:53
EickmeyerIt's simple geolocation based on IP. There's not much to it.02:54
EickmeyerCanonical is just doing it based on state and making an assumption that whole states are in a time zone.02:55
arraybolt3alright, settings changes work, time to review and upload 🎉03:02
arraybolt3Uploaded. GTK2 apps will now use Breeze. GTK3 apps will be hung up on the bug we just discussed.03:06
lubot[telegram] <RikMills> Ok, when you have a build to test please ping again (re @tsimonq2: @Eickmeyer @RikMills hi there's a chance I'll have to screw with an SDDM patch soon for more XDG handling goodies. Y'all care, if it doesn't break your stuff?)13:08
arraybolt3tsimonq2: Did you already file a bug for the Gtk 3 config file weirdness, or should I do that?15:26
tsimonq2arraybolt3: Go for it.15:53
tsimonq2I have some emergent $dayjob work, then I'll be looking at this.15:54
arraybolt3Preparing bug report.16:08
arraybolt3LP: #204770516:19
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2047705 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Packaging ships /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini, forcing the GTK3 theme to Yaru and preventing flavors from overriding it with XDG configuration" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204770516:19
tsimonq2Looks like I accidentally paused my IRC client process and it disconnected me. :P16:46
tsimonq2Anyway, looking.16:46
tsimonq2Thanks for your help here, arraybolt3! Especially the upload.16:46
arraybolt3Glad to help!16:47
arraybolt3You got the bug link right?16:47
tsimonq2Until we're completely on Matrix, I still have Telegram :D16:47
arraybolt3nifty16:47
tsimonq2$ echo $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS17:07
tsimonq2/etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu:/etc/xdg:/etc:/usr/share17:07
tsimonq2hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm17:07
arraybolt3I'm guessing that's backwards or something.17:10
arraybolt3I would think /etc/xdg would take priority over xdg-Lubuntu, and /etc would take priority over that, but /usr/share looks like it's definitely in the wrong place17:11
arraybolt3still wouldn't fix the bug, but perhaps then Ubuntu could move that default file to /usr/share/gtk-3.017:11
tsimonq2*/usr/share* ahh ok17:15
* tsimonq2 slaps arraybolt3 with a wet fish17:24
tsimonq2arraybolt3: missing: https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lubuntu-default-settings17:25
arraybolt3oof, sorry17:25
arraybolt3fixing17:25
tsimonq2arraybolt3: also I'm curious why neither of these files are actually installed17:25
arraybolt3which files?17:25
arraybolt3I tested the package in a VM and it installed the file for me.17:26
arraybolt3*files17:26
arraybolt3if that's what you mean17:26
tsimonq2yeah the two new files you created aren't showing up on my actual system I'm dogfooding17:29
* tsimonq2 does further Checking17:29
tsimonq2wtf the build log says they're shipped17:29
tsimonq2apt-file show doesn't display them hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm17:29
arraybolt3ls /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu17:34
arraybolt3if you have gtk-2.0 and gtk-3.0 folders in there, it works.17:34
arraybolt3If not, fix your system :P17:35
lubot[matrix] <roberalz> XD17:35
tsimonq2arraybolt3: no dude, the latest ISO with the latest default settings doesn't have em17:37
tsimonq2And I'm *shocked* because it says they're installed: launchpadlibrarian.net/706332591/buildlog_ubuntu-noble-amd64.lubuntu-default-settings_24.04.3_BUILDING.txt.gz17:37
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/207bd934/file_10306.jpg17:37
tsimonq2HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA17:38
arraybolt3tsimonq2: eh? That's odd...17:39
arraybolt3ISO respin I guess?17:40
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> That's some strange stuff indeed.17:40
tsimonq2I can reproduce it locally too17:40
arraybolt3grrrr17:41
arraybolt3then why did it just work when I did it?!17:41
arraybolt3maybe I didn't test properly, idk17:41
arraybolt3I installed Noble in a VM, got the .deb into the VM, booted it, installed the .deb with apt, and then checked and make sure the theming changes worked before uploading, so I know I did test this.17:43
tsimonq2False alarm. Totally PEBKAC. My apologies.17:45
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> heisenbug17:46
arraybolt3whew17:46
tsimonq2arraybolt3: In your testing, were the settings from Lubuntu's XDG directory automatically copied over?17:48
arraybolt3I don't *think* so. I may have forgotten to test that part though, but I think that did not happen.17:49
arraybolt3I didn't tweak the appearance settings after installing the package, I just let the package do its thing on its own.17:49
arraybolt3(moving the blocking file from libgtk of course)17:49
tsimonq2lxqt-session upload coming fixing this18:24
arraybolt3tsimonq2: orly?18:35
arraybolt3how'd you do it?18:35
tsimonq2arraybolt3: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxqt-session/1.4.0-0ubuntu318:39
tsimonq2This should completely fix everything for us *without* a GTK 3 upload. :)18:40
arraybolt3ah, nice...18:40
arraybolt3...though does that override the user's settings?18:40
arraybolt3Like if they set a GTK theme on purpose, will this keep "undoing" that?18:40
tsimonq2https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lxqt-session-packaging/commit/5fd7bd386045d577e082926753c850f4c28bb91a18:41
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Commit 5fd7bd3 in Lubuntu/lxqt-session-packaging "Copy over GTK 3 settings by default (LP: #2047705)."18:41
tsimonq2And nope. :)18:41
arraybolt3nifty!18:41
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Willing to bet we just need to add an additional comment header to make LXQt not trigger this warning on first theme change : https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/0ae62b02/file_10313.jpg18:42
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Also TODO: reset to default settings18:42
tsimonq2Also just confirmed that without Lubuntu's default settings, Yaru is still the default.18:45
tsimonq2arraybolt3: Are you suuuuuuuuuuuure GTK 2 was working?18:46
tsimonq2Not that I'm inclined to care at all anymore, tbh. :P18:46
arraybolt3Quite sure.18:46
tsimonq2So, when I open up a new session, why is Arc-Darker still the default GTK 2 theme? :P18:47
arraybolt3Probably an LXQt bug.18:49
arraybolt3Launch an actual GTK2 app like Hexchat or Lazarus and you'll see the theming is right.18:50
arraybolt3Better yet, move /etc/xdg/xdg-Lubuntu/gtk-2.0/gtkrc to somewhere else and launch Hexchat again and see the difference.18:50
arraybolt3It goes from looking fairly modern to like it just crawled out of Windows 95.18:50
tsimonq2Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... okay.18:55
tsimonq2I *think* we're in the clear. I'll do a followup respin once lxqt-session migrates.18:56
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxqt-session/+bug/182465419:31
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1824654 in lxqt-session (Ubuntu) "using BROWSER environment variable to set default browser creates several problems" [High, Triaged]19:31
arraybolt3that would be a really nice one to fix this cycle19:40
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> Respin will land in the next 20 minutes with fixed GTK stuff and things22:20

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