[14:09] <Kolusion> Hi. I use Ubuntu and I found that MATE is not in the main repository. Is it the same for Ubuntu MATE as well?
[14:24] <sixwheeledbeast> it would exist if it wasn't in the repo.
[14:26] <Kolusion> Sorry?
[14:27] <sixwheeledbeast> wouldn't
[14:27] <sixwheeledbeast> you can install mate on to an ubuntu system or use ubuntu-mate 
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> they use the same repos
[14:28] <Kolusion> Yeah, well its in the 'universe' repo in Ubuntu, but is it the same for Ubuntu MATE? I think I read Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE share the same repo's?
[14:28] <Kolusion> MATE is broken out of the box in Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, and I can't upgrade now.
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> version?
[14:28] <sixwheeledbeast> and what is broken?
[14:29] <Kolusion> I don't know what version, which ever one comes with 20.04 LTS. When you login, you get some error. I'll install it now and show you a screenshot...
[14:29] <Kolusion> Downloading...
[14:31] <sixwheeledbeast> so when you say it doesn't exist?
[14:31] <Kolusion> Hey?
[14:32] <Kolusion> MATE is in the 'universe' repository in Ubuntu, not 'main'.
[14:32] <Kolusion> I'm wondering if its the same for Ubuntu MATE?
[14:33] <Kolusion> Because if its not in main, then Ubuntu MATE does not get 5 years of guaranteed security updates from Canonical.
[14:33] <Kolusion> That sounds risky, so I'm wondering which repository is MATE in, in Ubuntu MATE.
[14:33] <sixwheeledbeast> it will be the same
[14:34] <sixwheeledbeast> but it's a supported flavour
[14:34] <Kolusion> Okay, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks
[14:34] <Kolusion> Yeah, supported. But Universe is community maintained, not Canonical.
[14:34] <Kolusion> If a security problem arises and the community doesn't patch it, then Ubuntu MATE becomes a security risk.
[14:36] <Kolusion> I installed MATE into Ubuntu and rebooted. How do I switch to MATE at the login screen? The cog is not there...
[14:37] <sixwheeledbeast> unlikely, but from what I recall flavours are 3 years. Most packages are from shared anyway so it makes little difference.  
[14:38] <Kolusion> Yeah, 3 years, which makes me wonder if Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE are using different repositories, because if they were using the same then Ubuntu MATE would have 5 years of support.
[14:38] <sixwheeledbeast> not used vanilla ubuntu since mate rolled
[14:38] <arraybolt3> ^ correct, flavors patch the Universe components (at least some of them) for three years after release. Keep in mind that the critical parts like the kernel, web browser, etc., are still supported by Canonical and get five years of support.
[14:39] <Kolusion> Are the patches delivered normally, or one must subscribe to Ubuntu Pro?
[14:39] <arraybolt3> Delivered normally.
[14:39] <sixwheeledbeast> same as ubuntu
[14:40] <Kolusion> Ubuntu doesn't deliver all patches in Universe without Ubuntu Pro.
[14:40] <Kolusion> Canonical withhold them.
[14:40] <Kolusion> SAd
[14:41] <Kolusion> So I installed MATE into Ubuntu, rebooted and am at the login screen. But I can't see a way to login with MATE.
[14:41] <arraybolt3> Screenshot?
[14:41] <arraybolt3> Like you don't have anywhere to type a username and password?
[14:43] <Kolusion> https://i.ibb.co/41qhVJ4/Untitled.png
[14:43] <sixwheeledbeast> pro is mostly backports tho? If you update with each LTS I don't see an issue.
[14:44] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast I don't want to have to update my server every 2 years
[14:45] <sixwheeledbeast> on lts it makes no odds
[14:46] <Kolusion> What does that mean?
[14:46] <Kolusion> I found out how to switch to mate... how dumb... you get the option when it asks you for your password lol
[14:46] <sixwheeledbeast> there is rarely an issue during an upgrade. if your looking for longer terms then maybe debian.
[14:46] <arraybolt3> If you're building a server, Ubuntu Server would be better. Desktop versions of Ubuntu lack some features that are very nice for servers, and Ubu tu Server is free.
[14:47] <Kolusion> Debian doesn't work from my experience.
[14:47] <sixwheeledbeast> also yer ^
[14:47] <Kolusion> Desktop and Server share the same repos
[14:47] <arraybolt3> True, but they have different starting software and configuration from those repos.
[14:48] <Kolusion> https://i.ibb.co/FJc1FsF/Untitled.png
[14:48] <Kolusion> So this is what you get on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS when you install MATE on a fresh Ubuntu install.
[14:48] <Kolusion> Clearly no one tested it.
[14:48] <sixwheeledbeast> it's nothing major
[14:49] <sixwheeledbeast> likely some regression.
[14:49] <Kolusion> Its a red flag that it hasn't been tested.
[14:49] <Kolusion> That's enough
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> it probably was tested but things have moved on 
[14:50] <arraybolt3> You appear to have installed Ubuntu Desktop and then added the MATE packages?
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> 22.04LTS
[14:50] <Kolusion> I am using the 20.04.1 LTS ISO
[14:50] <sixwheeledbeast> is the latest
[14:50] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 yes
[14:50] <arraybolt3> That could break things, generally you'd install from an Ubuntu MATE 20.04 disk and get just MATE.
[14:51] <Kolusion> Yeah, and 3 years of support. I want 5 years of support
[14:51] <sixwheeledbeast> if you want ubuntu with mate then better to use the flavour.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> You get three years of support either way.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> It's the packages that are or aren't supported.
[14:51] <Kolusion> It shouldn't break anything. If its in the repo I expect it to work without an in your face error.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> Not the installation media.
[14:51] <arraybolt3> Not all packages are compatible with each other though.
[14:51] <Kolusion> The main repo has 5 years of support in Ubuntu. That's why I asked what repo is MATE in, in Ubuntu MATE.
[14:52] <sixwheeledbeast> what is this server for?
[14:52] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 I read Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE share the same repo, so they should be compatible.
[14:52] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast web server
[14:52] <arraybolt3> I think you're confused as to how Ubuntu repos work. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
[14:52] <sixwheeledbeast> should just run ubuntu-server IMO
[14:53] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 what do you think I am confused about?
[14:53] <Kolusion> sixwheeledbeast I want a GUI
[14:53] <arraybolt3> MATE is in Universe whether you install it from apt or from an ISO.
[14:53] <arraybolt3> If you install it, you're installing something that only has three years of support.
[14:53] <Kolusion> arraybolt3 ok, thanks. So Ubuntu MATE does not get the same garanteed security updates. That's what I needed to know.
[14:53] <arraybolt3> True. Only some packages in it do.
[14:54] <arraybolt3> The packages in Main, namely.
[14:54] <Kolusion> Yep
[14:59] <Kolusion> Can't believe Canonical aren't shipping Ubuntu with MATE. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS exploded in popularity followed by an exodus in 12.04 LTS, you'd think Canonical would have got the hint.
[15:00] <sixwheeledbeast> they made there own DE then dropped that and gnome had moved on. 
[15:00] <Kolusion> I know, I was there.
[15:02] <sixwheeledbeast> i mean Ubuntu-mate has questionable decisions, like the default panel layout for example 
[15:03] <sixwheeledbeast> it's not gnome2 style it's more mint style
[15:04] <Kolusion> Yeah I noticed its ugly as. 10.04 LTS had such an awesome theme.
[15:04] <Kolusion> It feels like Windows 95 alpha
[15:05] <arraybolt3> hey, I liked win95, thank you very much :P
[15:06] <Kolusion> Same, in 1997 :)
[15:06] <sixwheeledbeast> traditional layout seems to be hidden away in all the wizards...
[15:07] <sixwheeledbeast> sad that the layout that made the version popular is hidden away for new users.
[15:07] <Kolusion> I tried switching theme and it complained it won't look as intended as ambient-mate isn't installed. I tried to find it in main and universe but can't find it.
[15:08] <Kolusion> Yeah I've had a gut full of Canonical. That's why I'm distro hopping, but the sad reality is there isn't anything near as good as Ubuntu for a long term server.
[15:08] <Kolusion> Been in the FreeBSD realm in the last 24 hours, its an echo chamber smelling of vapor.
[15:10] <Kolusion> Jezuz. I just brought up a screenshot of Ubuntu MATE. It does look like mint!
[15:11] <Kolusion> https://149366088.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screen-Shot-2011-08-19-at-11.31.08.jpg
[15:13] <Kolusion> Thanks for the chat
[15:14] <sixwheeledbeast> ?...
[15:15] <sixwheeledbeast> ambient-mate has been removed ...
[15:15] <sixwheeledbeast> what a weird conversation...
[15:53] <tomreyn> i doubt they noticed the screenshot is from 2011
[15:53] <sixwheeledbeast> :nod: ikr