[00:00] <arraybolt3> Might make things a bit easier, and we could handle it a lot like the installer prompt.
[00:00] <arraybolt3> Also I wanted to bring up our UI style. We've been using "welcome to the next universe" for a while, and with that having universe-y looking pictures included. I have a few thoughts about that.
[00:01] <arraybolt3> For one, it's somewhat... old. It worked fantastic with LXDE, fit like a glove. With LXQt it looks kind of strange. Most of our artwork and UI/UX doesn't include these galaxy-looking elements with purple in them.
[00:01] <arraybolt3> For two, it's purple. Lubuntu is heavily blue-focused when it comes to our color scheme, and the purple clashes with it in my opinion.
 Calamares should be able to do some of that ^
 It has an OEM mode
[00:02] <arraybolt3> For three, it's hazy. As in the lines themselves are hazy/nonexistent. Our logos use sharp lines, our icons use sharp lines, our whole UI is sharp lines and sharp corners, which I *love*. The Universe aspect of things however (and the installer prompt UI) are hazy and rounded, which doesn't really fit.
[00:03] <arraybolt3> I've been experimenting with the blue waves as a UI background element (we used them on Lunar's SDDM screen and all through the Calamares wizard). To me it feels more modern, more blue, and more well-defined. Thoughts?
[00:04] <arraybolt3> kc2bez: Calamares has an OEM mode? I didn't know this.
 https://github.com/calamares/calamares/wiki/Deploy-OEM
 Not sure what gymnastics we need to do, I never totally wrapped my head around it.
[00:06] <arraybolt3> ah, post-delivery is the only thing implemented.
[00:07] <arraybolt3> hmm, sort of looks to me like we'd need *two* Calamares configs, maybe three.
 Two for sure
 I will probably be AFK for the remainder of the evening.
[00:09] <arraybolt3> kc2bez: 👋 May the rest of your night go well!
[00:11] <tsimonq2> I'll be around via Telegram the rest of the night (and plan on addressing arraybolt3's queries.)
[00:11] <tsimonq2> (Or Matrix, if you're cool :P)
 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curl/8.5.0-2ubuntu1
 arraybolt3: OEM> Neon may have a good starter configuration to work with
 And calamares recognizes XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
 @arraybolt3: <3 (re: the team we have here)
 It wouldn't be the same without you!
[11:10] <arraybolt3> Hmm, never thought about the fact that Neon has an OEM mode.
 arraybolt3: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2024-January/005864.html
 Figured you'd be curious :)
[14:24] <arraybolt3> Saw that, made sense to me.
[14:25] <arraybolt3> I didn't know those "source ISOs" even existed until today :P
[14:25] <arraybolt3> so definitely not something I'm concerned about vanishing
 The only time I remember having to use them was in a purely Debian context and that should surprise nobody :P
[14:41] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: Matrix DM whenever you get a chance
[14:51] <Guest83> kc2bez: can confirm web.libera.chat works
[14:51] <Guest83> (this is arraybolt3)
[14:52] <arraybolt3> (confirming that Guest83 is me)
 \o/
[14:55] <arraybolt3> Just wrote some more script code to allow the detailed package view to eventually work. There's still going to be a lot of fun work involved in implementing that view, but we're getting pretty close. The updater itself appears to work just fine, conffile handling included.
[14:55] <arraybolt3> (except for one minor progress bar bug that I think I fixed)
 o/ :)
 Michael I talked to you over Reddit, right? :)
 Yup :)
 Welcome!
 Thanks!
 So, you're interested in contributing from what I hear? :) Could you tell us just a little bit about yourself and your interests, so we can guide you in the right direction?
 Okay :)
 I’m in high school and love programming and playing piano. I enjoy working on desktop apps the most. I value UX and logical UI like nothing else. I also like optimisation, but I’m not a professional. I’m super excited about things like the Wayland transition. Any work that would fit someone like that? :)
 @tsimonq2 started in Ubuntu while still at high school, so you will be in good company!
 Here, I'll respond with IRC now that I'm at my office space :) could you please consider setting a Telegram username, so it's easier to ping you? (re @Michael: Okay :)
 I’m in high school and love programming and playing piano. I enjoy working on desktop apps the most. I value UX and logical UI like nothing else. I also like optimisation, but I’m not a professional. I’m super excited about things like the Wayland transition. Any work that would fit someone like that? :))
 e.g. mine is @tsimonq2
 Sure
[15:48] <tsimonq2> In terms of your interests and contributions you could provide, I think you're in a great spot right now.
[15:49] <tsimonq2> 2024 will be a fairly large year for Lubuntu in terms of code we're working on.
 Glad to be able to be a part of it.
[15:51] <tsimonq2> To get started, I know you mentioned you're familiar with C++. Are you familiar with any of the following, and if not, do you know anything about them? Git, Vim, Python, Bash, and Debian packaging.
[15:51] <tsimonq2> (We have tons of *development* work that isn't *packaging* if you're worried about that learning curve to start. :) )
[15:54] <tsimonq2> (Also, if you aren't familiar with some of these, that's totally okay. That's why I'm asking, so we know how to start helping ;) )
 I’m fairly familiar with basic git (use it for my little projects’ GitHub repos. I’ve tried vim, but I’m not skilled enough yet :). I know enough Python and bash for simple shell scripts. I’m not used to Python’s syntax, but it’s similar enough to other languages that I’m fine most of the time. I know nothing about Debian packaging, but I’m sure that with the help of the amazing Debian wiki I could learn.
 vim is not an issue. use whatever command line editor you feel best with ;)
 /me runs and hides
[15:56] <tsimonq2> That's perfect! We have a ... bias towards Vim in Lubuntu, since, well, the last two uploads to Vim were done by me personally ;) that being said, as long as you have an efficient text editor that works, we aren't particular. ;)
[15:57]  * arraybolt3 slaps RikMills around a bit with a large carp (IRC joke)
[15:58] <arraybolt3> but yes, he's right
[15:58] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: You've been doing a lot of work with the update notifier, is there anything we can get @Nani72Noni started on in that respect?
[15:59] <arraybolt3> I need to actually push my current copy to Git, and it needs comments *badly*, but it is in a pretty good shape for someone else to work on it.
 Saying that, a working knowledge of vim is always a good idea. You may have to ssh into machines of VMs that are only bare bones, and only have vim there to use.
 Yeah learning vim has been on my todo list for a while now… I better get to it ;) (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> That's perfect! We have a ... bias towards Vim in Lubuntu, since, well, the last two uploads to Vim were done by me personally ;) that being said, as long as you have an efficient text editor that works, we aren't particular. ;))
[16:00] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2 has been known to symlink `nano` to `vim` on machines sometimes 🤪
[16:00] <RikMills> arraybolt3: that is evil
[16:00] <RikMills> :D
[16:00] <tsimonq2> wxl did it to me first ;D
 😂
[16:01] <tsimonq2> "Hey, can you help administer this server?" "Does it have nano?" "Yeah sure buddy, totally." ;)
 However, knowing how and where to find info to use tools is probably more important.
[16:02] <tsimonq2> ^^^^^
[16:02] <tsimonq2> Knowing how to Google/DuckDuckGo things and how to search for them is pretty important, and is also a skill worth developing :)
[16:04] <tsimonq2> @Nani72Noni: For the record, we intentionally keep this channel fairly informal. Most other development channels and such, even around Ubuntu, tend to be straightforward "only $x flavor development strictly," we don't really mind if there's general, relevant tech stuff here as well.
 I definitely agree with that from when I used to do scientific research. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Knowing how to Google/DuckDuckGo things and how to search for them is pretty important, and is also a skill worth developing :))
 Good to know thanks! (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> @Nani72Noni: For the record, we intentionally keep this channel fairly informal. Most other development channels and such, even around Ubuntu, tend to be straightforward "only $x flavor development strictly," we don't really mind if there's general, relevant tech stuff here as well.)
[16:05] <tsimonq2> It may take us a day or two to get the update notifier commented enough where someone else can help on it, but we're excited to see someone new, so I highly doubt it will be long. :)
 If someone symlinked nano to vim on me, I'd probably take out revenge in the worst way possible.
 Thank you very much.
[16:06] <tsimonq2> In the meantime, I'd suggest you start reading the docs: https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki - this is not a hard requirement, but it will give you more familiarity with the project. :)
[16:06] <tsimonq2> Plus, if you read anything in there that doesn't make sense (besides the overly technical jargon documents), let's talk about it!
[16:07] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: What if someone symlinked `ed` to `nano`? :P
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: I don't use ed so.. 🤷
[16:08] <arraybolt3> I got the order mixed up, nvm
[16:08] <arraybolt3> #FailedJokes
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> 🤣
 Perhaps also look at the Ubuntu membership requirements. They set out the many ways you can contribute to not just a flavour, but the project as a whole.
[16:08] <tsimonq2> +1
[16:09] <Eickmeyer> ^ this, tbh
 Yeah I’ll read the docs and the update notifier source. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> In the meantime, I'd suggest you start reading the docs: https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki - this is not a hard requirement, but it will give you more familiarity with the project. :))
 Thanks. I’ll check it out. (re @RikMills: Perhaps also look at the Ubuntu membership requirements. They set out the many ways you can contribute to not just a flavour, but the project as a whole.)
[16:13] <tsimonq2> All Lubuntu Members are inherently Ubuntu Members. We are a part of the same family. Even as you've just seen, Eickmeyer and RikMills technically are on teams of their own, but we enjoy working together. We aim for the *ubuntu * communities to be accepting and welcome. :)
[16:13] <arraybolt3> (Bear in mind the existing lubuntu-update-notifier is deprecated, old, and buggy. Currently the new Lubuntu Update code is only on my machine, and I have to upload it to Git. I'll probably do that later today.)
[16:13] <arraybolt3> (I should have been pushing code sooner than this but I didn't :P)
 Thanks for letting me know :) (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> (Bear in mind the existing lubuntu-update-notifier is deprecated, old, and buggy. Currently the new Lubuntu Update code is only on my machine, and I have to upload it to Git. I'll probably do that later today.))
[16:18] <RikMills> tsimonq2: Indeed. No team stands alone. We all need to work together
 Noticed that bug 2046099 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/+bug/2046099 still exists after fix see comment #10 -hope it makes sense
[18:12] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2046099 in lubuntu-installer-prompt (Ubuntu) "lubuntu calamares/lubuntu-installer-prompt - changing to english(AU) has app restart & ask language again as if still on english(US)" [High, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046099
[18:24] <seal308> Hello I've come from reddit, a comment from Simon said I can learn lubuntu development with limited programming knowledge. If I choose to go down this path I was wondering what technologies I should learn first before being able to support the team?
[18:44] <RikMills> seal308: welome, maybe please see the conversations with a similar query earlier today
[18:44] <RikMills> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2024/01/04/%23lubuntu-devel.html#t15:24
 seal308: Welcome!
 I believe we are tracking that in another bug but I appreciate the heads up :) (re @Leokolb: Noticed that bug 2046099 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/+bug/2046099 still exists after fix see comment #10 -hope it makes sense)
[18:52] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2046099 in lubuntu-installer-prompt (Ubuntu) "lubuntu calamares/lubuntu-installer-prompt - changing to english(AU) has app restart & ask language again as if still on english(US)" [High, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046099
[18:54] <seal308> Q: "Are you familiar with any of the following, and if not, do you know anything about them? Git, Vim, Python, Bash, and Debian packaging." A: Vim I'm pretty familiar with, I don't know every feature but I kept going through vimtutor in terminal about 20 times so I can do the basics pretty well. Python I made basic scripts to automate stuff, I read bits of the book online Automate The Boring stuff. I don't know much about bash 
[18:54] <seal308> programming but I think I have edited my bashrc file if that counts? I do not know anything about debian packaging. I'll start reading through: https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki
 @Nani72Noni ^^^^ I think we are all going to make a great team :)
 Think so too :)
 Should I be running Lubuntu 24.04 on my dev machine?
 If you want to, it helps. "Dogfooding" what we're about to release helps you scratch your own itches. That being said, if you're just starting out, I'd consider either dual booting the latest stable and 24.04, or using a virtual machine *if* you have a beefy enough machine :) (re @Nani72Noni: Should I be running Lubuntu 24.04 on my dev machine?)
 @Nani72Noni, seal308: I'm going to start a wiki page in the next hour or two with some nice "low hanging fruit" to get fixed up, expect that soon :)
[19:00] <arraybolt3> Lubuntu is light enough it's hard to not have a "beefy enough machine" for running it in a VM :)
[19:01] <arraybolt3> unless you're using a 4 GB RAM notebook I suppose
 Perfect! Thanks a lot! (re @tsimonq2: @Nani72Noni, seal308: I'm going to start a wiki page in the next hour or two with some nice "low hanging fruit" to get fixed up, expect that soon :))
 Also, for both of you, the power of doing this over asynchronous communication is that we can respond to each other whenever it's most convenient. I don't know your time zones and I don't want you to feel obligated to answer me if I ping in the middle of the night. :)
[19:02] <seal308> ok thx!
 Yes -remember that you are correct (re @tsimonq2: I believe we are tracking that in another bug but I appreciate the heads up :))
 Thanks again for your help :) (re @Leokolb: Yes -remember that you are correct)
[20:46] <arraybolt3> I'm currently in the process of commenting the Lubuntu Update code and should be done later today.
[21:21] <arraybolt3> Nani72Noni: I didn't comment this in extreme detail since this isn't tutorial code, but if you're comfortable with C++ and spend some time learning Qt, it should be easy to get a grip on. The code isn't very complicated except for the text parsing, and I tried to explain how some of the text parsing parts of things worked.
[21:21] <arraybolt3> Anyway, I'm about to upload it.
 Thanks. I can only really have a look and work on it in a few hours (I’m about to go to sleep).
[21:27] <tsimonq2> Well, that conference call took longer than expected :D looks like my timeframe of "one to two hours" isn't accurate but by EOD probably is. :P
[21:28] <arraybolt3> Nani72Noni: https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lubuntu-update Thanks for your help! (Don't feel like you *have* to do something btw, we all just work however much or little we want to. By all means though, if you're passionate about what you're doing, have at it!)
[21:28] <arraybolt3> also tsimonq2 ^ if you want to review my code
[21:29] <tsimonq2> Qool
[21:35] <arraybolt3> So far the features that work are the tray icon, the notification, the updater window, the installer, the "Close" buttons, the conffile conflict handler, and the conffile diff display. The "Details" button should *eventually* pop up a window that displays a list of packages, what version they're at now (if they're installed), what version they will
[21:35] <arraybolt3> be at after update, and a link to the package's page on Launchpad so the user can see the changelog data for themselves. None of that is implemented now, and the "Details" button does nothing.
[21:35] <arraybolt3> (That's my plan for it anyway, I'm very open to suggestions for what it should do.)
 Let me know when it's ready to translate :) (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> Nani72Noni: https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lubuntu-update Thanks for your help! (Don't feel like you *have* to do something btw, we all just work however much or little we want to. By all means though, if you're passionate about what you're doing, have at it!))
[22:25] <arraybolt3> Roberalz: Will do! Oh, yeah, I forgot to use tr() for the sake of easy translation ability. I'll need to fix that.
 💯 (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> Roberalz: Will do! Oh, yeah, I forgot to use tr() for the sake of easy translation ability. I'll need to fix that.)
 Perfect
[23:22] <tsimonq2> @kc2bez, @teward001: please give me admin access here :) https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki/
[23:27] <tsimonq2> I'm going to start pasting links to new pages I'm creating.
[23:27] <tsimonq2> https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki/lubuntu-dev
[23:31] <tsimonq2> https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki/lubuntu-dev-xdg
 I thought I did but I will give it a look shortly and hopefully get you fixed up. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> @kc2bez, @teward001: please give me admin access here :) https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki/)
[23:49] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: did you do any further thinking about my comments on UI from yesterday?
 You and i have the same permissions, it should be dialed to 11. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> @kc2bez, @teward001: please give me admin access here :) https://git.lubuntu.me/lubuntu-wiki/wiki/wiki/)
[23:50] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Which comments are yet unaddressed?
[23:51] <tsimonq2> I'm almost finished with this "low hanging fruit" document heh
[23:51] <arraybolt3> Yes.
[23:51] <arraybolt3> (i.e., I didn't see a response to any of them, maybe Telegram just didn't let them come through, idk)
[23:51] <arraybolt3> It's not a critical priority, just an idea I had and was hopeful for feedback on.
[23:52] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: https://dpaste.com/3HV62WF6V in case it makes it easier
[23:52] <tsimonq2> I thought I responded to you, whooooooooooops.
[23:53] <arraybolt3> thanks dpaste.com for deciding that my logs were T-SQL code for Microsoft SQL Server.
[23:53] <tsimonq2> So, for clear context (forgive me IRC mods):
[23:53] <tsimonq2> 18:00 <arraybolt3> Also I wanted to bring up our UI style. We've been using "welcome to the next universe" for a while, and with that having universe-y looking pictures included. I have a few thoughts about that.
[23:53] <tsimonq2> 18:01 <arraybolt3> For one, it's somewhat... old. It worked fantastic with LXDE, fit like a glove. With LXQt it looks kind of strange. Most of our artwork and UI/UX doesn't include these galaxy-looking elements with purple in them.
[23:53] <tsimonq2> 18:01 <arraybolt3> For two, it's purple. Lubuntu is heavily blue-focused when it comes to our color scheme, and the purple clashes with it in my opinion.
[23:53] <tsimonq2> 18:02 <arraybolt3> For three, it's hazy. As in the lines themselves are hazy/nonexistent. Our logos use sharp lines, our icons use sharp lines, our whole UI is sharp lines and sharp corners, which I *love*. The Universe aspect of things however (and the installer prompt UI) are hazy and rounded, which doesn't really fit.
[23:53] <tsimonq2> guiverc, @kc2bez, @lynorian: Seems like up your alley (although anyone can chime in) ^^^^^^
[23:54] <tsimonq2> I intentionally do not have opinions on our colors because I'm terrible at the whole "colors" thing. :P
[23:56]  * guiverc is very good with aesthetics... black screen, old IBM 3270/390 font & I'm happy...
 Green or amber text with that black screen?
[23:57] <guiverc> green text for sure!
[23:57] <guiverc> the old 8 color IBM is fine too...
 Nice, I can get behind that.
[23:57] <arraybolt3> hahahaha I actually wouldn't mind that :P