[01:45] <pycurious> is there a ubuntu 24.04LTS desktop that is out, that will automatically upgrade to LTS when it releases this month?
[01:46] <sarnold> ubuntu systems won't automatically offer to upgrade to 24.04 until the 24.04.1 release a few months later
[01:46] <pycurious> @sarnold - if i load up the beta right now, will it upgrade to 24.04lts on April 25th?
[01:47] <sarnold> pycurious: oh yeah, that'll happen without any effort on your part
[01:47] <sarnold> pycurious: you'll just get new packages as they are released, it should go pretty smoothly
[01:47] <devslash> Upgrading ubuntu on day 0 is pretty risky
[01:47] <sarnold> devslash: someone has to file the early bug reports :)
[01:48] <devslash> Yea and while I do file bug reports, I'm happy to let someone else do that for Ubuntu bugs
[01:49] <pycurious> I just got a new laptop - was going to try to see if the beta is of any use - if not, will go back to 22.04lts desktop
[01:49] <pycurious> what is a good place to download the 24.04lts desktop beta?
[01:51] <sarnold> pycurious: https://releases.ubuntu.com/noble/
[01:52] <pycurious> Thanks!
[02:11] <pycurious> whats a good tool to use to burn ubuntu iso's on mac ? (rufus/etcher are out - could use dd - but perhaps something better?)
[02:17] <pycurious> used dd :) Thanks.
[02:32] <akik> pycurious: remember to use /dev/rdisk
[02:34] <preach> dd cannot burn anything
[02:34] <preach> and if you're talking about USB, that's not what ISOs are for, and not all bioses/firmware support that non-standard method of booting
[02:34] <akik> preach it
[02:34] <sarnold> .. .sounds like you've never burned your /home filesystem by accident with dd :)
[02:34] <preach> only /dev/sda
[02:35] <preach> and /dev/hda in the 90s
[02:35] <akik> imac can boot from usb stick, at least intel imac
[02:35] <sarnold> :)
[02:57] <younder> word of cation. dd's bs setting of 512 is ridiculously low. I use bs=64k which can increase the speed 6 times..
[02:57] <rbox> 64k is still tiny
[02:59] <TheRoyalWe> I use bs=1M
[03:16] <akik> younder: thanks but this is all well known
[07:36] <ice9> I'm unable to report bugs and getting this error: https://pasteboard.co/gLH9q5d8G6KI.png
[07:41] <ice9> rebooting solved the issue, but why did it happen?
[07:53] <NickH> ice9: Looks like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1051683
[07:53] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Debian bug 1051683 in libfontconfig1 "libfontconfig1: 'out of memory' errors when the working directory was deleted" [Minor, Open]
[09:27] <zfolsi> hello
[10:02] <TheAvatar> preach, I were not gonna install an Ubuntu server I weren't going to use. It has a purpose, and software running on it, locks me to 22.04 (previously most recent supported was 20.04). So that's why I can't just upgrade to 23.x or 24.x as that is unsupported and very likely not working at all
[11:55] <miceiken> Naive question, but in bash when you run a command "command -- -args" what does the -- do?
[11:57] <geirha> it means "end of options", so any arguments that start with - after the -- will no longer be treated as options
[11:58] <miceiken> what if "command" is an alias, will the args after -- be passed to the base of the alias?
[11:59] <miceiken> e.g. for npm scripts
[12:04] <tomreyn> try for yourself: the command    alias ls    should return     alias ls='ls --color=auto'      and     ls    should give colorized output by default. now run   ls -l    and check whether the output changes.
[12:05] <tomreyn> while those are basic questions so far, if you have more complicated ones regarding bash specifically, also consider asking in #bash
[12:08] <tomreyn> miceiken: here's an example for "end of options": assuming you need to delete a file which starts with a hyphon, such as "-myfile".    rm -myfile    would interpret -myfile as an option, as would   rm "-myfile"   . however,   rm -- -myfile    would delete the file (as would    rm ./-myfile   ).
[12:09] <MauriceT> Is anyone familiar with driver creation ? My laptop has a fingerprint scanner that works on Windows but I switched to Ubuntu, and the driver for the version of the device : 06cb:00ff Synaptics has not been developed yet by the fprintd project. I would like to know where to start if I were to do it myself. My only idea yet it reverse engineering the
[12:09] <MauriceT> Windows version of the driver
[12:14] <miceiken> tyvm
[12:17] <pycurious> Just installed 24.04LTS Desktop on my new laptop - no crashes so far :) - nvidia driver is working as well! :)
[12:22] <nikel> Nice that you don't have a problem.
[12:27] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:28] <nikel> Hi.
[12:29]  * nikel is back from - auto-away (idle 30 min) - gone 27mins 3secs - [i²]
[12:30] <nikel> Bye.
[12:43] <webchat45> Hello, I have been trying to communicate in #ubuntu-next but It seems nobody is online
[12:54] <BluesKaj> heh, they're probly too busy fixing bugs
[13:27] <ingvar> How can I download a given version of a package from ESM (Ubuntu Pro only)? With apt, I only get the latest version.
[13:27] <ingvar> For example:
[13:27] <ingvar> $ apt download openjdk-8-jre-headless="8u382-ga-1~16.04.1"
[13:27] <ingvar> E: Version '8u382-ga-1~16.04.1' for 'openjdk-8-jre-headless' was not found
[13:28] <ogra_> ingvar, you can not ...
[13:28] <ingvar> uh, that is ... a pity
[13:28] <ingvar> why?
[13:29] <ogra_> (there is work going on to have archive snapshots for the ESM PPA, so customers can ask for versions to get sent ... but that work isnt done yet)
[13:30] <ogra_> ingvar, because it uses a PPA and they are not designed to keep older packages around (for space reasons) ... so some work is required to take regular snapshots of that archive
[13:30] <ogra_> a new upload/release of a deb will wipe the old one
[13:31] <ingvar> Using Ubuntu professionally in a conservative environment, this is functionality that is needed. For example to recreate a given server with a given patch level. Do we have to make some private snapshotting of packages then?
[13:31] <ingvar> ogra_: I've heart disk space comes cheap at this time of the ... century
[13:31] <ingvar> *heard
[13:34] <ogra_> ingvar, well, do you have an idea how many PPAs are there ? its the mass that makes it hard ...
[13:38] <ingvar> sure, but I would presume that 1) there is a limited number of PPAs that make up the Pro service, 2) These PPAs are used by (at least by some) paying customers. So do you have to snapshot each and every PPA that anyone made, just because you decided to use PPAs to build the ESM service?
[13:39] <ravage> If you need support about Ubuntu Pro you need to contact Canonical. This is a community support room. 
[13:40] <ingvar> ok, ok
[14:30] <preach> TheAvatar: you can always use a VM as well
[14:30] <preach> or container
[14:47] <polymorphic> Are there known flaky reliability or issues with `6.5.0-27-generic` and Intel 2.5GB Nics? I see either my NIC crashing frequently, or IPv6 registrations every 4 seconds sometimes, which is concerning. Just recently, the system was just completely unresponsive. For the most part, it's been rock solid for 2 months.
[14:51] <preach> have you tried a search engine first
[14:54] <polymorphic> I have been looking - https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=264742
[14:54] <polymorphic> I have seen articles like this, but, they mention just negotiation at 1 GBs, not constantly flapping, or very aggressive DHCP messages.
[14:56] <polymorphic> Most of what I have seen though is back in 2021, nothing more recent.
[14:57] <polymorphic> I am also not entirely sure what happened, as I was trying to SSH from work, and I couldn't - I am still coming through the logs, but it is hard to determine tbh
[15:02] <mdmbkr> Hello, I'm running 22.04 on a thinkpad, and I notice when I close and then open the laptop that a maximized window will expand to include the area behind the taskbar, which then masks the bottom part of that window ... is there a way to prevent that
[15:06] <crowme> I have Ubuntu 20.04.4 installed (on a chromebook) where I am using the latest kde (about says plasma 5.24.7 and Frameworks 5.92.0) with gdm (because that was what was installed first). There is no Networks doodad under the Hardware Control section in the System Tray and its Settings dialog, but I thought it was there to start with. I use a similar setup on an old machine that this is replacing, but with 20.04 and kde about says plasma 5.18.8.
[15:06] <crowme> I have a vague memory that to get round this there I ended up using the kde display manager instead (or as well, actually). If I just login to kde at startup, wifi no work. Any ideas what is going on?
[15:07] <crowme> Add to which, the only thing I want kde for is for precise control of window size. There used to be a handy menu, but now it is so meta!
[15:07] <crowme> Alternatives?
[15:12] <tomreyn> crowme: so you initially installed ubuntu and then partially moved over towards kubuntu, i guess? I would recommend picking one of the two, this will likely give you a better experience in the end.
[15:13] <crowme> mdmbkr, suppose - for the sake of argument - that you changed the taskbar to autohide and the maximised window exanded to fill the space, that would be expected behaviour. So, then if you reversed the change to the taskbar, you would expect the maximised window to go back, right? Then what you are describing is a bug.
[15:17] <crowme> tomreyn, forgive me, the kids have moved so many years around in the >30 years I have been using linux! Programs like gdm and sddm all used to be implementations of X11 Display Manager and they should ought to have been interchangeable and interoperable with other window managers and desktops. gdm happily starts my kde session for me. Why does it do that, if it is not expected to work?
[15:20] <crowme> I did read the source code to a very small window manager once. matchbox, I think it was called. I am struggling to even figure out which program/package is responsible for the system tray. Is it plasmashell?
[15:20] <crowme> Where do I file the bug report?
[15:21] <tomreyn> crowme: i'm not saying it cannot work. i'm not sure whether there is an *exact* definition (standard) for 'X11 Display Manager' (could be, maybe you know) and, if so,  whether these softwares still attempt to comply with it. with desktop development focus moving more towards wayland, this may no longer hold true.
[15:22] <tomreyn> crowme: i'm not really into kde myself, others here certainly are, like those in #kubuntu
[15:22] <tomreyn> !bug
[15:23] <crowme> help me identify the package responsible?
[15:24] <crowme> x11 interoperability was always a little fuzzy in practice. I believe there were specs.
[15:26] <tomreyn> i would suggest you ensure you have at least one of the {k,}ubuntu-desktop{,-core} packages installed, or at least go through their dependencies recursively to ensure you're not missing arelevant components.
[15:27] <crowme> Now that I'm here, the other problems I have are keyboard problems (the chromebook was cheap!) Has keyboard(5) gone the way of the dodo?
[15:27] <crowme> tomreyn, thanks I'll go look ...
[15:27] <tomreyn> i mean {k,}ubuntu-desktop{,-minimal}
[15:29] <crowme> I do have ubuntu-desktop-minimal installed
[15:33] <tomreyn> so then gnome should work on your computer (but not neccessarily kde)
[15:34] <mdmbkr> crowme: I'm not sure about autohide expected behavior, I suppose I would expect my maximized window to occupy the whole desktop all the time and for the taskbar to basically float on top when it's displayed
[15:35] <mdmbkr> it would be weird for my windows to change size frequently just for the taskbar to appear and disappear
[15:35] <crowme> mdmbkr, but if you turned off auto-hide, would you expect maximised windows to resize?
[15:36] <crowme> The nature of the bug is very likely a kind of race. The window is getting maximised before the taskbar appears, but not getting resized after it appears.
[15:36] <mdmbkr> it's such an edge case that I never seriously thought about it. but I would say yes, because a maximized window is defined as occupying the full desktop, and removing the taskbar changes the size of the desktop
[15:37] <crowme> If you resize the taskbar to be thicker, what do you expect?
[15:37] <mdmbkr> at any rate I have another data point, now that we're discussing it, which is that if I disable "panel mode", the bug stops happening
[15:37] <crowme> I bet fvwm still works ;-)
[15:37] <crowme> twm for sure, right?
[15:38] <ioria> crowme, on plasma you might need 'plasma-nm' in addition to network-manager
[15:39] <crowme> ioria, fabulous I will go and look ...
[15:39] <ioria> ok
[15:39] <mdmbkr> which brings up a slightly different scenario: because the non-panel-mode taskbar doesn't (visually) reduce the size of the desktop, I'd now expect a maximized window to expand to include the area behind it .. but it doesn't, which gives the impression that there's an unusable area of desktop to either side of the taskbar
[15:40] <mdmbkr> anyway, so if we're considering this a bug, is there somewhere I should report it
[15:42] <crowme> Like the way that a macbook comes with a GIANT panel that takes up half the screen, so that it looks nice in the shop?
[15:44] <mdmbkr> I confess to totally hating the os X GUI
[15:44] <crowme> With regards to XDMCP, I can see an Open Group document with equations using greek letters that has Keith Packard's name on it :-)
[15:45] <coz_> mdmbkr, you're not alone
[15:53] <crowme> ioria, thank you so much. plasma-nm does indeed solve the problem!
[15:53] <ioria> crowme, ok
[16:01] <brenndo> help
[16:01] <mdmbkr> ok
[16:01] <lotuspsychje> !ask | brenndo
[16:01] <brenndo> i typed  "sudo chmod 777 -c -R /"  now i dont have sudo and root anymore
[16:04] <younder> lol. reboot and get the boot menu and choose secure boot. In there get a shell and set the permissions back the way they were.
[16:05] <younder> drwxr-xr-x root, root for reference
[16:09] <tomreyn> younder: you noticed -R ?
[16:10] <younder> recursively.. great. Reinstall it is
[16:11] <brenndo> ok thanks
[16:28] <jwash> hi everyone in step 9 they say to blacklist hardware. how do i know which gpu is driving my monitors. I have the gpu in the lower slot, I think its 04:00:00
[16:28] <jwash> Guide: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1406888/ubuntu-22-04-gpu-passthrough-qemu            Cmd line outputs: https://hastebin.skyra.pw/
[16:30] <jwash> If I blacklist 03:00.0 and i'm wrong, how would I recover without reinstalling
[16:38] <tomreyn> jwash: from a bootable recovery system. have you verified that your hardware and graphics driver is compatible to this guide before you started applying it?
[16:40] <tomreyn> https://hastebin.skyra.pw/ (the "Cmd line outputs" URL you posted) appears to show the submission frontent of a hastebin installation.
[16:41] <jwash> https://hastebin.skyra.pw/bogutavase.yaml
[16:42] <jwash> tomyren yes, my harware is compatible
[16:42] <jwash> i have iommu outputs
[16:42] <tomreyn> and you're using nouveau and a graphics card which works with it?
[16:42] <jwash> yes
[16:43] <jwash> take a look at the hastebin
[16:43] <tomreyn> the url you posted redirects to the main page for me
[16:43] <jwash> https://hastebin.skyra.pw/bogutavase.yaml
[16:43] <tomreyn> that's the same url aagain
[16:43] <jwash> it works for me
[16:43] <tomreyn> good!
[16:45] <jwash> https://imgur.com/6h6Pgz6.png
[16:45] <jwash> https://imgur.com/PHy31mz.png
[16:45] <jwash> still not working on your end?
[16:46] <jwash> how would you set up the recovery disk? is there a recovery distro you'd use/
[16:46] <tomreyn> i'm able to access both of these images
[16:47] <jwash> but not the hastebin url?
[16:47] <jwash> weird
[16:47] <jwash> clearly shows working in the screenshots
[16:47] <tomreyn> i can access that, too, it just redirects me to the front page.
[16:48] <tomreyn> i was accessing through tor, if that matters
[16:48] <jwash> regardles, i know to do screenshots
[16:49] <jwash> i'm plugged into the bottom slot on my motherboard
[16:49] <jwash> do you know how i'd verify which cpu to blacklist?
[16:49] <jwash> which gpu is currently outputting to my monitors and which one isn't
[16:53] <tomreyn> jwash: xrandr --listactivemonitors    may help hthere
[16:54] <tomreyn> add --verbose
[16:55] <tomreyn> actually, adding --verbose seems to override the previous argument
[16:56] <jwash> https://text.is/X0WV
[16:56] <jwash> can you see that
[16:57] <jwash> https://text.is/Y3X1
[16:59] <younder> You guy's got balls I give you that. I'd conduct my 'experiments' on PI's. Easy to swap micro ssd's after all.
[17:00] <tomreyn> jwash: i can access both and see what you (likely) posted. the 'raw' 'export' output is useable, since it uses a monotype font.
[17:01] <jwash> damn, you made me think that i was doing something wrong
[17:01] <jwash> that's why you couldn't see hastebin
[17:02] <tomreyn> jwash: i think you would need to go through nouveau initialization in the systemd journal to see which of your same-model dgpu's are connected where
[17:15] <tomreyn> jwash: this guide you're following isn't going to work for you if you plan to keep using one of the same-model dGPUs assigned to the host, and passthrough the other one to the guest system. that's because it fully blacklists nouveau + snd_hda_intel. the author of the guide has a (different model) integrated intel gpu (in the CPU) which enables them to keep managing the host with it. maybe you have this, too, but the other dedicated nvidia card
[17:15] <tomreyn> would fallback to failsafe graphics / vesa mode with this guide, at best.
[17:25] <mutaz> hi
[17:29] <jwash> tomreyn would one possible solution to be to install the proprietary nvidia driver first?
[17:32] <jwash> or, i have a amd graphics card i can add too
[17:33] <tomreyn> jwash: i don't think so. if you want one of the two nvidia dgpus to remain useable on the host and the other on the guest, then you'll need to first disconnect one of the two off the host and only then load the driver for the remaining dgpu on the host. but this will likely need some testing and that can be difficult in case you do not also have an igpu using a different driver.
[17:34] <jwash> i can remove one of them and add in a ati graphics card instead
[17:34] <jwash> work from the ati card
[17:34] <jwash> Do ATI cards use nouveau also?
[17:35] <gordonjcp> jwash: no
[17:35] <shoes> no they do not.
[17:36] <Sassa> hi
[17:36] <gordonjcp> jwash: nouveau is only for nvidia cards
[17:37] <gordonjcp> jwash: the AMD equivalent is amdgpu
[17:37] <jwash> hmm, let me add it in
[17:37] <gordonjcp> nouveau is okayish for games but has no CUDA support
[17:37] <gordonjcp> amdgpu is okayish for games but has no OpenCL support
[17:38] <gordonjcp> so you can forget doing for example any video work
[17:51] <tomreyn> i just read that driverctl  (package and command)  can help (by creating suitable udev rules) with vfio passthrough with same model GPUs.
[17:57] <jwash> tomreyn: cool, do you have the link?
[17:59] <tomreyn> sure. apt:driverctl
[18:00] <tomreyn> i read it on reddit somewhere, can't find that link anymore. but there was little context to it.
[18:01] <tomreyn> ah, this https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/comments/vpwjch/gpu_passthrough_of_the_same_model_with_same_id/
[18:20] <RickyRat5005> I am getting "the keyring did not get unlocked" when I boot up and log in... I am running 24.04 Is this a known bug or something I should report?
[18:20] <pragmaticenigma> RickyRat5005: Did you change your user password?
[18:20] <RickyRat5005> No.
[18:21] <RickyRat5005> And I am not using automatic log in.
[18:22] <RickyRat5005> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/2060575
[18:22] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2060575 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "gnome-keyring fails to automatically unlock login keyring after recent updates in noble" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[18:22] <RickyRat5005> This may be it!
[18:23] <pragmaticenigma> nice find
[18:23] <RickyRat5005> Well I should have searched better first! :-)
[18:24] <tomreyn> please use #ubuntu-next for 24.04 until release
[18:26] <RickyRat5005> I don't understand what the status of "Won't fix" means...
[18:26] <RickyRat5005> If it's a confirmed bug, why wouldn't they fix it...??!!
[18:26] <ravage> the bug is not in the gnome-keyring package
[18:26] <younder> Vulcan allows you to run compute shaders. They can be used as a stand in for CUDA. YMMV
[18:27] <younder> Of cource the GPU has to run Vulcan.
[18:28] <tomreyn> younder: are you responding to someone there?
[18:29] <younder> tomreyn: gordonjcp
[18:30] <tomreyn> i see!
[18:30] <younder> Anyhow rules out NVIDA ampere, hopper and blackwell series
[18:38] <tomreyn> RickyRat5005: if you look at the table on top of this bug report, you'll see it supposedly "affects" two packages (/ softwares), gdm3 and gnome-keyring. the latest update, which you were probably referring to, by Marco, assigns the bug to himself for the affected package gdm3, and changes the bug status to "Won't Fix" for the (supposedly) affected package gnome-keyring. that's basically him declaring "i know where this needs to be fixed, it's in
[18:38] <tomreyn> gdm3, and not in gnome-keyring, and i'll take care of it".
[19:39] <bhola> Hi. I am looking for some help updating my very old PC stick running Ubuntu 17.10. How I can upgrade it to latest ubuntu? sudo apt update throwing errors as cannot reach ip address/URLs. Reinstalling from scratch is not an option ata the moment.
[19:40] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: can you... yes... should you... probably not
[19:40] <pragmaticenigma> the old servers are archived and upgrading requries manual changes to your sources to point at the archvie servers all the way up until you get the latest release
[19:41] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: I would recommend backing up the device and your files and doing a fresh install.
[19:42] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Why not give it a try? Please let me some hints or online tutorial to give it a shot.
[19:42] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: because there were a lot of significant archectural changes to Ubuntu since 17.10... and a lot of things are not going to easily upgrade
[19:43] <bprompt> bhola: why is installing from scratch not an option btw?
[19:44] <bhola> There are no special data on it. The reason I don't want a fresh install is, this stick got a 32bit UEFI with 64bit processor and I can recall it was a mess at the time when I installed it about 5-6 years ago.
[19:45] <pragmaticenigma> it's going to get even messier trying to update it
[19:46] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Right. So is there an easy way to do it if I go for fresh install? Is it possible with the latest Ubuntu to deal with this compatibility issue?
[19:47] <bprompt> bhola: hmmmm what do you mean by "this stick"?   as in an USB stick?
[19:47] <bprompt> I mean, a machine with UEFI can't be too old
[19:47] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, BTW why not give it a try? If it all gets messed up, I will go for fresh install.
[19:48] <bhola> It is MeegoPad T02 stick.
[19:49] <bhola> I want to use it for 3d print server and want to install Octoprint on it.
[19:50] <bhola> I tried do-release-upgrade but it says no new version available.
[19:51] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: there is no "one" straight forward way to guide you on this journey. especially as your device gets more complicated with each detail you drop about it.
[19:51] <akik> bprompt: i think he means the stick is the computer
[19:51] <bprompt> bhola: well, compatibility wise, we're talking 7 years of updates and changes, I'd say the probability for a mess, is around 90%
[19:51] <bprompt> akik: right
[19:52] <bhola> bprompt, Yes iT is a PC in the form of a stick.
[19:52] <bprompt> bhola: hmmm sounds like some raspberryPI of some type
[19:52] <ioria> bhola, you need a 'special' sources.list
[19:53] <bhola> bprompt, yes. sort of.
[19:53] <ioria> bhola, something like this: https://termbin.com/i0vx
[19:54] <bhola> ioria, OK. Can you please shed some more light as how to do it. I am an expert in linux but got a basic to intermediate know-how of it.
[19:54] <bprompt> bhola: why you never did a distro-upgrade before btw? I mean, like going from 17.10, which became EOL in 1 year, to 18.04 and so on?
[19:55] <ioria> bhola, backup your /etc/apt/sources.list; replace with the text above; run apt update and apt full-upgrade
[19:56] <ioria> bhola, cd /etc/apt; sudo cp sources.list sources.list.back;
[19:56] <bhola> bprompt, I never used it after that. Now a need arose and I remembered I got a small PC which is best for the job.
[19:56] <bprompt> bhola: what ioria is saying, you're getting " but it says no new version available." because your "apt sources" are inadequate
[19:57] <bprompt> bhola: I see, you installed 17.10, then left it picking up dust, now you want to get 24.04 but you don't want to do a full install due to compatibilities on a USB stick that has been picking up dust for 7 years?
[19:57] <bhola> bprompt, Now I have not done it yet. Let me see if the sourses.list is same as ioria has mentioned
[19:58] <bhola> bprompt, Yes. That is correct.
[19:58] <bprompt> heheh, well then
[19:58] <bprompt> bhola: I think pragmaticenigma's suggestion stands in good grounds :)
[19:59] <bhola> bprompt, that is fresh install?
[20:00] <bprompt> bhola: yeap, what are you losing? I mean, you left it picking up dust anyhow, have barely used it
[20:01] <bhola> bprompt, Yes, that is what I meant. I wouldn't lose nothing if I mess up upgrading it. If it fails I will try to install fresh
[20:01] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: you're basing your past experience with difficulties in the UEFI to CPU-arch on information you had from several years ago, and are assuming the installer hasn't been updated in all that time to correct that issue. You'd be better off backing up the device, and doing the fresh install to see if it works. If it works, you've spent far less time tinkering around with updating the sources.list file several times to get to the latest
[20:01] <pragmaticenigma> release. If it doesn't work, you restore your backup and then come back for additional help
[20:02] <bprompt> bhola: or you can do a fresh install and be happy in 24 hours :)
[20:05] <bhola> hmmm. Actually while going through web search based on my aging memory about this device, I found out that I needed to install something like grub ia32 efi32 i386 type package which is for 32 bit UEFI and then it will load 64bit OS in turn.
[20:05] <bprompt> bhola: you can do a "right turn" by doing three lefts, yes, however you can achieve it as well by just turning right in the first place, both have the same outcome, one is just quicker :)
[20:05] <pragmaticenigma> bhola, since 2017 there has been at least two major changes to the Ubuntu installer
[20:07] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Yes I can remember, It used to use Ubiquity and now it uses something different. Is this what you are talking about?
[20:08] <bprompt> bhola: maybe the major changes added support for your device now, and you may not need to do all that rigamarole you had before with an older version
[20:09] <bprompt> bhola: 32 UEFI with a 64bit single-cpu isn't that unusual, I think Acer Aspire were like that, or some of their models
[20:10] <bhola> bprompt, You know what, I am not in a hurry and I also want to learn something during this process. I want to go for the upgrade route first. If it fails I will go for fresh install.
[20:11] <pragmaticenigma> There's still manufacturers doing that bprompt
[20:11] <akik> asus t100 had that
[20:12] <bhola> bprompt, You are right. There were a number of devices with this configuration and people were cursing the hidden alliance of Microsoft and Manufacturers of these devices.
[20:12] <bprompt> bhola: so you see, your hardware specs aren't that exotic, and support for 32bit UEFI and 64bit cpus is there, but you seem eager for the upgrade =)
[20:13] <pragmaticenigma> since I'm done with this... I'll put this out for you bhola .... but you're on your own. The reason most of us are unwilling, is the time commitment to all the issues that are going to come up for you.
[20:13] <pragmaticenigma> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[20:13] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Yes. The only reason is to learn something during this process.
[20:14] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Thanks for the link. I will go through it and be back here if need more help.
[20:14] <bprompt> bhola: if you want more learning, why not install 24.04 right now?  that way you can report bugs before its release :P
[20:15] <pragmaticenigma> i'm going to go on a limb and suggest that particular use case is better suited to the presently supported 22.04 LTS release, until 24.04 is officially release
[20:16] <pragmaticenigma> with an upgrade path... printers are a pain -in-the-butt on their own... best not to complicate it with a beta test OS
[20:16] <bhola> bprompt, I am not that expert in linux to find bugs. But I am also going prepare a linux live bootable usb, just in case.
[20:17] <bprompt> bhola: so it won't work, then you'll say "ohhh man, you were right" and you'll be eager to send us some money through PayPal, however we'll say no, is cool, you don't have :P
[20:17] <bprompt> bhola: hmmm the LiveUSB is not an option per se, is part  of the installation
[20:17] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: the most important thing, regardless of the path you choose... Please, for the love of Tux, make a backup!
[20:18] <bprompt> no need for a backup on an drive that has been picking up dust for 7 years
[20:18] <pragmaticenigma> you never know
[20:18] <bprompt> I mean, I guess you can backup the dust and lint
[20:18] <bhola> Buy the way I want to install a very light distro which is easy on this weak PC with access to latest packages. Is ununtu a good candidate. At the moment it is only CLI based Ubuntu installed. I think it is Ubuntu Server. It runs pretty good and fast.
[20:19] <pragmaticenigma> It should be fine
[20:19] <pragmaticenigma> if not, there's always Raspberry Pi OS as an option
[20:20] <bhola> So I will go for ubuntu server 24.04 which is without GUI.
[20:21] <bhola> Raspberry Pi OS cannot be installed on it because my cpu is Intel and Raspberry Pi uses ARM core.
[20:21] <pragmaticenigma> bhola: Raspberry Pi OS has x86_64 flavors.. always has
[20:23] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, Is it available on Raspberry pi website?
[20:23] <pragmaticenigma> https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/operating-systems/ at the bottom of the page
[20:23] <pragmaticenigma> labelled Raspberry Pi Desktop
[20:23] <pragmaticenigma> I missed on the 64bit part... they offer 32 bit only
[20:24] <bhola> yes. I have also noticed that it is 32bit.
[20:25] <pragmaticenigma> I was thinking of a different distro I use, MXLinux
[20:26] <bhola> MXLinux is also very good distro. It runs very good. Still running on my PC.
[20:28] <bprompt> bhola: https://3dprintscape.com/how-to-install-octopi-on-a-raspberry-pi-for-octoprint-setup/
[20:33] <bhola> bprompt, Thanks. I will do it once I have got the latest OS.
[20:34] <bprompt> last I checked, you can print a sandwich on a 3dprinter, is not as tasty though
[20:35] <bhola> bprompt, I am not hungry. :)
[20:36] <bprompt> bhola: just another helpful tip =), it may taste better than cardboard though
[20:38] <bhola> bprompt, sigh. my bad. I never tried cardboard though.How does it taste like? :)
[20:40] <bprompt> bhola: ahhh, like cardboard I'd think, looks like a decent stick btw
[20:40] <arraybolt3> bhola: plastic generally tastes better IME
[20:40]  * arraybolt3 used to chew on plastic beads as if they were gum back when I was little... :face_palm:
[20:41] <bhola> arraybolt3, hahaha I believe you. There is nothing like personal experience.
[20:43] <bhola> pragmaticenigma, bprompt sources.list changed and issued update command. Spitting out a lot of text. Lets see how it goes.
[20:43] <bprompt> bhola: cross your "legs"
[20:44] <bhola> bprompt, I have. looks like fingers wouldn't do.
[20:48] <bhola> bprompt, I am a bit confused. The kernel image is with "-generic" ta the end. Am I running Desktop or Server? How to confirm it?
[20:49] <bprompt> me hits google really fast
[20:51] <bhola> according to this ubuntu update guide it is mentioning linux-image-server for servers and linux-image-generic for Desktop. I know I have no gui installed so I thought it was server.
[20:51] <bprompt> bhola: well,, no GUI simply means "headless" doesn't mean server per se
[20:52] <bprompt> you can run a desktop "headless" too
[20:52] <bhola> right. so I go for -generic then.
[20:55] <bprompt> bhola: just to run octoprint? sure, I don't think you need the server version just for that
[20:55] <bhola> yes. at the moment I just need octoprint
[20:58] <bhola> is there a better option?
[20:59] <bprompt> bhola: since I don't run it, or eat plastic sandwiches, dunno
[20:59] <bprompt> I mean, haven't done much research on 3dPrinting apps
[21:03] <bhola> bprompt, You know what? I had actually forgotton my username and passowrd and root password. Going through search I found a way and discovered my username and reset the password for my username. I had to spend about 1hour but learned something which is valuable.
[21:05] <bprompt> bhola: right, well, we could have told you that, maybe the missing username and passwords are being premonitious :)
[21:09] <bhola> bprompt, no it wasn't. :)
[22:43] <jadeia> Hi all - on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, when I download a  .deb file and install it through software center, is it being installed as a SNAP?
[22:43] <devslash> no
[22:44] <jadeia> Perfect. I am reading mixed signals about 24.04 - is it true this will no longer be possible (to install a deb).
[22:44] <devslash> thats what I've heard. Hope thats not true Iדןגקךםשג גקנ כןךקד כרםצ אןצק אם אןצק
[22:45] <devslash> thats what I've heard. Hope that's not true since I side load from time to time
[22:46] <jadeia> Yeh I'm worried - can't seem to find a decent article review about it. Most articles these days are just AI copyspin.
[22:46] <jadeia> Example - Steam is really stable sideloaded.
[22:54] <jadeia> Also I read a comment from a beta tester that they could no longer find things like extensions in the software app (Gnome Tweaks, Extension Manager, etc). They had to manually enable flatpak and then had to deal with 2 Software Center apps. Again, it's just from reading comments as I've not beta tested myself.
[22:55] <jadeia> I'm not against Snaps either - but I value simplicity and flexibility. 22.04 has by far been my favourite OS ever to date. Lucky the long LTS support means I can stick with it if the next version has some stuff I don't like.