[00:22] <eelstrebor> i don't know what changed but i can no longer update on one of my pc's:  Err:33 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy/universe DEP-11 48x48 Icons
[00:22] <eelstrebor>   Error reading from server
[00:30] <ravage> And can you open that link in your browse? 
[00:33] <ravage> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[00:57] <eelstrebor> ravage, yes
[00:58] <eelstrebor> i got to: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jammy-updates/universe/dep11/
[01:03] <eelstrebor> none of the "fixes" that i found will fix the problem
[04:38] <logang> burger
[04:38] <logang> plus I doubt anyone uses this anyway
[04:38] <logang> but hi
[06:58] <francescob0189> m
[09:00] <xvx> I am new, did I do a bad command? https://pasteboard.co/2EHoEWSthVu0.png  I tried undoing a previous install, but looks like it removed snapd, python-pip3, xorg, etc :s
[09:01] <lotuspsychje> xvx: image not found on your url
[09:01] <xvx> https://bpa.st/raw/3EFA
[09:02] <xvx> Files application has disappeared now :s
[09:03] <lotuspsychje> xvx: why did you purge ca-certificates gnupg exactly for?
[09:04] <aldcor> ^
[09:05] <xvx> I was trying to install pgadmin4, and the guide had included `apt install ca-certificates gnupg`. pgadmin4 install failed so I wanted to reverse the installs
[09:05] <aldcor> you did bad command, xvx as you can see it says that xorg xserver-xorg will be removed - xorg is needed for your graphical environment..
[09:05] <xvx> I'm on 24.04 Wayland if it matters
[09:06] <aldcor> oh, yeah, then you still got graphical env
[09:06] <aldcor> using sway or something else?
[09:06] <xvx> I am new, not sure
[09:07] <aldcor> so, you executed command and all those packages were removed?
[09:08] <xvx> yes
[09:09] <aldcor> i'd say python3 may be useful at some point but as for the rest.. if your system works good, it's probably ok
[09:10] <xvx> I want it to be the default Ubuntu state before I removed those
[09:10] <aldcor> however, wayland these days are used with together with DE so. if you don't know what you are using it's hard to answer
[09:10] <aldcor> you installed newest ubuntu version?
[09:11] <xvx> yes, yesterday
[09:12] <aldcor> well, i assume you don't have yet much important files on your pc so I would just do fresh install.
[09:13] <xvx> oof, spent whole day setting it up. A little scared to bork my work PC with another partition
[09:13] <aldcor> you could do something like `apt install xorg xserver-xorg python3 update-manager-core` or basically copy most of what you see
[09:14] <aldcor> or even copy the whole thing ander REMOVED
[09:14] <aldcor> under*
[09:14] <aldcor> `sudo apt install <all the packages you see being removed>`
[09:14] <xvx> I'll try. Will that bring back Files app?
[09:15] <aldcor> it is actually Nautilus
[09:16] <aldcor> you can install it with sudo apt install nautilus or you can try other program like thunar
[09:16] <xvx> Files is back!
[09:17] <aldcor>  \o/
[09:17] <aldcor> ubuntu renames program names.. not sure why
[09:18] <aldcor> or rather - gnome does it
[09:18] <xvx> I have a lot to learn. Why would `apt uninstall ca-certificates gnupg` delete all those programs?
[09:18] <aldcor> if you want to learn I can share some tips, are you interested?
[09:18] <xvx> sure
[09:20] <aldcor> xvx: have you ever looked at `man apt` ?
[09:20] <xvx> no
[09:21] <aldcor> i recommend that, you will see most common `apt` usage. So, before you install or remove package you can read short description about it
[09:22] <aldcor> xvx: try apt show ca-certificates
[09:22] <aldcor> and also apt show gnupg
[09:23] <xvx> I guess `apt uninstall` is an alias for `apt remove` and maybe `purge`. I did the command
[09:25] <aldcor> why would `apt uninstall ca-certificates gnupg` delete so many important packages is beyond my understanding. I am linux user for many years but not ubuntu user. There are multiple package managers
[09:25] <aldcor> well, i am ubuntu user now for a testing purpose
[09:25] <xvx> yeah I don't see anything about e.g. `snapd`, `nautilus`, `python-pip3` etc
[09:26] <aldcor> when you execute program you should read what it's about to do, especially what it's about to remove
[09:26] <tomreyn> packages define dependencies between one another. often, one package depends on functionality other packwges provide, so you need to have both installed if you want one of them, and apt handles that automatically for you.
[09:26] <aldcor> `snapd software-properties-common software-properties-gtk ubuntu-desktop-minimal ubuntu-release-upgrader-core`
[09:26] <aldcor> these are all important part of base install to my understanding
[09:27] <aldcor> also gunpg and python3
[09:27] <aldcor> yeah, dependcies are shared between many programs
[09:27] <tomreyn> ca-certificates contains information on all the CA's (pre-trusted) root certificates which anything speaking TLS needs to know. so if you remove this package, anything that tries to speak TLS will probably be removed, too.
[09:27] <aldcor> sometimes in order to remove dependecie you have to remove program or vice versa
[09:28] <tomreyn> gnupg is used internally by apt to verify authenticity of package downloads, so this is quite essential, too
[09:28] <aldcor> oh yes
[09:28] <aldcor> xvx: can you share a link you saw this command being recommended?
[09:29] <xvx> that's very intricate (and weird?), if removing a program entails removing its dependencies
[09:30] <aldcor> it's not always the case but you removed a program which is essential to whole system basically
[09:30] <aldcor> and it has shared deps with many other essential programs
[09:31] <tomreyn> actually i seem to have been wrong there, gnupg is not an *essential* package, or apt would have stated so when you tried to remove it per https://bpa.st/raw/3EFA
[09:31] <aldcor> rather, what you tried to do is very uncommon, that's why I asked for that link
[09:32] <aldcor> i would say for security reasons gnupg is essential
[09:32] <tomreyn> most likely several other applications depends on or recommend it.
[09:35] <xvx> I didn't see the uninstall command, in a guide it said to install those two packages but my original pgadmin4 install failed. So I wanted to undo the installs I had done, seemed logical to `uninstall` like I would in npm
[09:36] <aldcor> based on this site, installation is straight forward https://www.pgadmin.org/download/pgadmin-4-apt/
[09:37] <aldcor> setup a repo, and install via apt. It should work
[09:37] <xvx> I saw that, but was confused that 24.04 isn't listed there
[09:38] <xvx> let me try again, when I tried it before it gave me an error
[09:38] <tomreyn> 24.04 is not yet supported
[09:38] <aldcor> oh right
[09:39] <xvx> that's why I tried undoing it, and led to this mess :D
[09:39] <tomreyn> xvx: when you remove a package, say pgadmin4 (which is not in ubuntu, so you must have installed this from a different apt repository, or as a snap), other packages pgadmin4 depended on will also be removed IF they are not also used by some other package.
[09:39] <tomreyn> so you don't need to explicitly list packages that were installed automatically to satisfy pgadmin4's dependencies
[09:40] <xvx> so is it safer to resist the temptation to clean up my system by keeping dependencies there?
[09:42] <tomreyn> most systems have plenty of storage nowadays. auto-detection of which dependencies can be removed is good but not perfect, so you may indeed end up with more packages installed, and you could try to remove some manually (until you run into the kind of output you had here which clearly indicates removing these packages is probably not a good idea).
[09:43] <xvx> I used this guide as it's for 24.04, not sure why it worked for him if 24.04 is not supported https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZPxu3r-nY
[09:43] <tomreyn> but you can also just safely ignore trying to remove dpeendencies of a package you installed, in the end you'll have enough space anyways.
[09:45] <tomreyn> xvx: my "24.04 is not yet supported (by pgadmin4)" statement is simply based on "Ubuntu 24.04" not being listed on this table at https://www.pgadmin.org/download/pgadmin-4-apt/
[09:45] <tomreyn> it *may* still work, i really don't know
[09:46] <aldcor> i run lot of software which is not supposed to even work on linux :) there are always some workarounds
[09:46] <tomreyn> hmm, no, won't work. there's no "noble" directory at https://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/pgadmin/pgadmin4/apt/
[09:47] <aldcor> wouldn't older pgadmin4 version work on newest ubuntu?
[09:48] <aldcor> xvx: probably by june/july pgadmin4 will also work just fine on ubuntu
[09:50] <xvx> I'm used to Windows/Mac where older software (in my experience) usuallys works with newer OS
[09:53] <tomreyn> it's not just a matter of pgadmin4 binaries working, but also whether the debian packages will be installable. packages do not only define other packages they depend on, but also concrete or lowest or highest versions of other packages. So, with an apt installation, YMMY.
[09:54] <aldcor> that's more distro related, not specifically linux. i mean, pgadmi4 probably will be in most rolling release distros repos. For example it is in archlinux aur
[09:54] <tomreyn> on a quick glance on https://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/pgadmin/pgadmin4/apt/mantic/dists/pgadmin4/main/binary-amd64/Packages you *may* succeed with an unsupported (both by this channel, because it's a third party repository, and by pgadmin folks) apt installation on noble (24.04) by using mantic (23.10) apt sources
[09:55] <tomreyn> there's also a "python" installation method, which also doesn't look like i'd want to support it, but this may succeed. or you wait, or build from source.
[09:56] <aldcor> also since you are new, installing from source might be good learning experience and it's not difficult actually
[10:01] <aldcor> bro got overwhelmed
[10:03] <xvx> Well `sudo apt update` prints "The repository 'https://www.pgadmin.org/static/packages_pgadmin_org.pub -cs) Release' does not have a Release file.N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default." which suggests it might be installable
[10:03] <xvx> may be wiser just to use sth like DBeaver though
[10:09] <tomreyn> exactly, this ("noble"/24.04) apt repository does not exist, yet.
[10:12] <tomreyn> if you'd like, right now, an ubuntu installation where third party packaged software is already available, I recommend to install Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, and to upgrade to 24.04 when the upgrade becomes available. by then, most third party software will have been packaged, too.
[10:13] <xvx> In general, is it painful to continually update Ubuntu non-LTS releases because software incompatibility?
[10:14] <xvx> as in updating in the first month
[10:17] <tomreyn> upgrading from Ubuntu LTS to LTS is commonly entirely painless if you (a) do it while LTS upgrades are supported and (b) don't have third-party apt repositories installed and (c) don't have unsupported system customizations
[10:18] <tomreyn> (b) should read "don't have third-party apt repositories or debian packages (.deb) installed"
[10:19] <tomreyn> the same goes for non-LTS release upgrade
[10:19] <tomreyn> especially if you're new to Ubuntu I would recommend using LTS releases, though.
[10:21] <xvx> I like new and shiny things though :) I was considering using rolling release like Manjaro
[10:21] <tomreyn> !latest
[10:22] <xvx> I thought a maybe adquate compromise may be the 6 month releases
[10:24] <tomreyn> it would not be to me, on a server or my main desktop, due to how much effort goes into fixing software bugs on these releases. but YMMV.
[10:24] <tomreyn> others are happyily running those
[10:24] <xvx> what do you use?
[10:27] <xvx> regarding "fixing software bugs", this OS feels pretty buggy so far (had crash reports, tiling weirdly gets stuck occasionally, etc)
[10:28] <tomreyn> you're using an LTS release which is very young. it will have more bugs then which are only exposed by a wide userbase. the most serious ones will be fixed until .1
[10:29] <xvx> imagine what a young non-LTS is like then... Maybe might as well use rolling release
[10:32] <kostkon> xvx, in my case nautilus crashing every time I opened a folder with 120k images and thumbnails on. I could easily do it in Windows. More of a problem with the thumbnailer though tbh
[11:06] <Diagon> This is the first time I've seen ubuntu update on bootup, and then reboot itself.  Can someone clue me in regarding what's new here?
[11:09] <gordonjcp> can anyone confirm if Ubuntu 24.04 fixes the broken terminal input with NVidia now?
[11:25] <olspookishmagus> anyone knows which is the software that enables this functionality? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu_rightclick_cd.png
[11:25] <olspookishmagus> is it a GNOME feature?
[11:30] <tomreyn> olspookishmagus: i'm *guessing* it might be a feature provided by brasero
[11:31] <tomreyn> there was nautilus-extension-brasero until jammy
[11:45] <Guest50> Hi, I installed Ubuntu Unity 24.04 minimal, then I installed the snap-store, but the snap-store does only run if I start it from the terminal. How can I fix this?
[12:10] <olspookishmagus> thank you tomreyn
[12:12] <aaaa> hi
[12:12] <aaaa> how to get a free shell ?
[12:14] <tarzeau> aaaa: for what?
[12:15] <tarzeau> i've seen many at the beach. but if you mean $SHELL i know where you could, depends what you want to work on...
[12:15] <aaaa> tarzeau to install an IRC server
[12:16] <Guest100> any ideas to my snap-store question?
[12:16] <tarzeau> aaaa: for that you'd probably need to make your own server..
[12:17] <tarzeau> Guest100: what is snap-store? can't find it at https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=snap-store
[12:17] <aldcor> free shell to install irc server? :)
[12:17] <aldcor> bro is confused
[12:17] <tarzeau> aldcor: maybe he means a bouncer, just a client but who knows
[12:18] <aldcor> i prefer your idea about beach :)
[12:19] <Guest100> @tarzeau I installed Ubuntu Unity 24.04 (minimal) and I wanted to add some software but there is no graphical software to do that. I googled and found that this graphical software for Ubuntu is called snap-store. But I couldn't find the info if that is still the case for 24.04
[12:20] <tarzeau> Guest100: just do it without graphical software? apt is your friend?
[12:21] <aldcor> isnt't there `App Center` in all ubuntu versions?
[12:21] <tarzeau> Guest100: i've never see anyone install software graphically since 20 years on debian or deb based systems... and i've seen 5000+ users
[12:21] <aldcor> what?!
[12:21] <aldcor> you should've seen me today
[12:21] <aldcor> i installed steam and spotify from App Center
[12:21] <Guest100> the minimal install doesn't come with the app centre installed
[12:22] <aldcor> Guest100: open terminal and do `apt install <whateva ya need>`
[12:22] <aldcor> sudo apt install *
[12:23] <Guest100> sudo apt install app-centre doesn't work :/
[12:23] <aldcor> install what you need directly, without app center
[12:26] <Guest100> but I would like to have both options the graphical way and the terminal way. is that possible?
[12:26] <aldcor> Guest100: you want vlc, for example? do `sudo apt install vlc`
[12:26] <aldcor> it is
[12:26] <aldcor> but I don't know actual name of app center.. they hide it from us :D
[12:27] <aldcor> therefor I can't search it with apt
[12:27] <aldcor> but let me see what I can find
[12:27] <Guest100> I found this https://askubuntu.com/questions/955227/how-to-install-elementary-os-appcenter-on-ubuntu
[12:27] <Guest100> but I don't know which repo I need to add for 24.04
[12:33] <aldcor> Guest100: just try that howto 1:1 and see if it works
[12:35] <Guest100> Should I use sudo add-apt-repository ppa:elementary-os/daily ? It says it is for Ubuntu newer than 16.04LTS, which is pretty old
[12:39] <aldcor> daily? no
[12:39] <aldcor> just add repo and when you apt install that package that specific repo will be picked
[12:39] <Guest100> add which repo?
[12:40] <aldcor> elementary-os/daily
[12:40] <aldcor> oh, i misunderstood your question :)
[12:40] <aldcor> yeah, just follow that howto
[12:40] <ioria> no daily, go with stable Guest100
[12:41] <Guest100> ok thx, I'll try the howto 1:1 but switch out daily for stable, brb
[12:41] <ioria> Guest100, daily is : 'it's useful only if you are a developer and are not afraid to encounter CRITICAL BUGS'
[12:43] <Guest100> I'm not a dev, I just want to build a solid Ubuntu PC for an older family member.
[12:43] <ioria> then don't add ppas
[12:43] <Guest100> what is ppas?
[12:43] <ioria> something 'external' ; might cause troubles and you have to ready to manage
[12:44] <ioria> *to be ready
[12:45] <Guest100> I'm very sry, I don't understand your point. Could you explain this a little for me pls?
[12:45] <aldcor> Guest100: i suggest gnome version then. All the basics will be there and very little to zero tinkering
[12:46] <ioria> Guest100, you install software from the ubuntu official repositories (with apt or gui); those ppa are not part of the repositories
[12:47] <walterduchi> hola
[12:47] <Guest100> The "problem" my older family member are used to Unity. I try the Ubuntu to look like what the already knew. You know?
[12:47] <ioria> Guest100, sure i got it
[12:49] <Guest100> that`s why there is a need for a install with gui. I apt installed my way to get here to ask for help :)
[12:49] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:49] <aldcor> Guest100: well, we are helping :)
[12:49] <Guest100> yes you are
[12:49] <aldcor> so, did you add repo?
[12:49] <aldcor> followed howto?
[12:53] <Guest100> yes I followed the how to but the installation failed
[12:54] <Guest100> On the step sudo apt install appcenter
[12:54] <Guest100> I get an error message telling me the package appcenter was not found
[12:54] <ioria> Guest100, run 'sudo apt update'
[12:55] <Guest100> I did that
[12:55] <ioria> Guest100, apt-cache policy appcenter | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:56] <Guest100> still the same error
[12:56] <ioria> Guest100, paste the link you got
[12:57] <Guest100> sry, do I find the link?
[12:57] <ioria> Guest100, apt-cache policy appcenter | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:58] <Guest100> when the terminal executes this there is no output
[12:58] <ioria> ah, so it's null ;
[12:58] <ioria> Guest100, sudo apt update | nc termbin.com 9999
[13:00] <Guest100> know there are a few lines of output :) should I use pastebin? Or a language translator maybe?
[13:00] <ioria> don't you have a link ?
[13:01] <Guest100> I got lines like this:
[13:01] <Guest100> E: Das Depot »https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/ximion/packagekit/ubuntu noble Release« enthält keine Release-Datei.
[13:02] <Guest100> E: Das Depot »http://packages.elementary.io/appcenter noble Release« enthält keine Release-Datei.
[13:03] <ioria> Guest100, copy the output of 'sudo apt update' here -> https://paste.linux.chat/
[13:05] <Guest100> https://paste.linux.chat/?b4ffa42368185961#D37mH1xjdhnVXJT6as2KhUShYE2XgCvkxEeqZTHNmMLA
[13:07] <ioria> Guest100, i think you have already added some other  repository for appcenter
[13:08] <ioria> Guest100, run 'apt-cache policy appcenter' and paste the output as above
[13:09] <ioria> told you to stay away from ppas
[13:09] <Guest100> N: Paket appcenter kann nicht gefunden werden.
[13:09] <Guest100> can't find the package
[13:11] <ioria> yep, adding the ppa repo failed
[13:13] <ProJu> Hello Gents, hope you are all good. I have freshly installed Ubuntu Server 24.04 and subsequently added Ubuntu-Desktop as graphical interface. My machine is running headless, and I have set the GUI not to start at boot. I can succesfully SSH into the machine, but I am failing to RDP. I tried to activate the function in ubuntu but still it does not estabilish connection. Can someone kindlu support me?
[13:14] <ioria> Guest100, i suggest you to ppa-purge both elementary-os/stable/  and  http://packages.elementary.io/appcenter  (idk what that is)
[13:15] <Guest100> ok how do I do that?
[13:17] <ioria> Guest100, sudo apt install ppa-purge (but maybe you have no pkgs from them)
[13:18] <Guest100> result says that changes nothing
[13:18] <ioria> Guest100, what ?
[13:18] <Guest100> sudo apt install ppa-purge
[13:21] <ioria> Guest100, that is a command to install a program; it does not fix anything per se
[13:21] <ioria> Guest100, nvm; open Software & Updates
[13:21] <ioria> Guest100, click on 'Other Software'
[13:21] <ioria> Guest100, untick all the ppas
[13:22] <Guest100> ok donw
[13:23] <Guest100> -w +e
[13:26] <ioria> i have to be afk for 1h, sy
[13:26] <Guest100> ok thank you for your help so far :)
[14:34] <ActionParsnip> Thought it'd be buzzing in here after a new release
[14:47] <cosmicrajiv> hi all! why the backward/forward gestures for firefox is not working on ubuntu 24.04?
[14:49] <ActionParsnip> Under which desktop environment etc? Which version of Firefox? Snap or deb?
[14:51] <blackmn> How do i report ubuntu cinamon bugs. Left the pc running for 10 days when i came back the gpu was on fire
[14:53] <NEGRUMPS> as in, literal fire ?
[14:53] <negrumps> or just hot
[14:53] <negrumps> or loud
[14:53] <blackmn> Yeah it exploded. The pc no longer turns on
[14:53] <blackmn> However i managed to get the logs from the ssd
[14:53] <ActionParsnip> blackmn: ubuntu-bug packagename   In a terminal, will start the process for you
[14:53] <blackmn> Turns out there's a Wayland issue
[14:54] <ActionParsnip> Or this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
[14:55] <blackmn> Unfortunately i can resurrect the gpu from the dead. But i can save other gpus from dying
[14:58] <blackmn> My neighbour heard a massive explosion and called the cops. That's how they discovered the gpu caught fire
[14:59] <ravage> See the URL above. You can file your bug there 
[15:04] <cosmicrajiv> blackman; Wayland is a mess. problem after problem but we are continuously justify it. if it's not ready that means it's not ready
[15:04] <ravage> It runs just fine on all my devices 
[15:05] <ravage> And Xorg is a much bigger mess 
[15:05] <ravage> The code is almost unmaintainable at this point
[15:05] <blackmn> It has integration for phones consoles everything
[15:05] <blackmn> Too much unnecessary code
[15:06] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; and that bigger mess has been used for years! also it's almost years since wayland  development has started and it's still work in progress
[15:06] <ravage> Decades
[15:06] <ravage> And that is part of the problem 
[15:06] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; exactly
[15:06] <ravage> Also Ubuntu offers Xorg
[15:06] <ravage> So you can choose
[15:07] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; I think its good to have wayland by default but every linux os at least should provide xorg
[15:07] <cosmicrajiv> until wayland is not ready
[15:08] <ravage> The relevant Linux for this channel does :)
[15:08] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; I am using nvidia so ubuntu automatically defaults me to Xorg:)
[15:08] <ravage> Not true
[15:08] <ravage> At least not for 24.04
[15:09] <cosmicrajiv> what do mean "at least not for 24.04"?
[15:09] <ravage> I use Wayland with the latest Nvidia driver and never switched from Xorg actively 
[15:09] <blackmn> What nvidia gpu do you use
[15:09] <ravage> 4060 ti
[15:09] <cosmicrajiv> ravage: believe me after installation has finished ubuntu runs on xorg by default for me.
[15:10] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; may be because i am 3050 ti
[15:10] <blackmn> Compare the power consumption when in xorg and then Wayland
[15:10] <ravage> I am not 100% sure because I started during the beta phases 
[15:10] <cosmicrajiv> ravage; driver version?
[15:10] <blackmn> The one that uses less power is best for you gpu
[15:10] <ravage> But it works just fine
[15:10] <ravage> 550
[15:11] <cosmicrajiv> ok... for me it is 535
[15:11] <ravage> From the Ubuntu repositories 
[15:11] <cosmicrajiv> so now here is the reason
[15:12] <blackmn> Good drivers use about 30 50 wattts when idke
[15:12] <blackmn> Idle
[15:12] <cosmicrajiv> i used 'sudo ubuntu-drivers install', and it says the best best version for your hardware is already installed.
[15:13] <blackmn> Im flying away
[15:13] <blackmn> Whatever works for you you know
[15:17] <JanC> 30-50W is hardly what I would call "idle"
[15:59] <az8> hey, where can I find the hardware requirements for TPM-Backed disk encryption ?
[15:59] <az8> does it require TPM 2.0? won't work on TPM1.2?
[16:00] <az8> I was not able to find any documention that mentions the TPM versions
[16:01] <nadcoder> ?
[16:02] <ravage> Yes you need TPM 2.0
[16:03] <az8> that explain why the option is grayed out on my system
[16:03] <az8> are there any documents listing those requirements? I would like to take a look
[16:04] <ravage> secure boot, TPM 2.0
[16:04] <ravage> end of lis
[16:04] <ravage> t
[16:04] <ravage> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/full-disk-encryption/19871
[16:04] <ravage> that is from Ubuntu Core
[16:04] <ravage> but it uses the same concept
[16:05] <ravage> that also means no self compiled/signed kernel modules
[17:38] <pitch> hey! does ubuntu liveISO still contain zfs?
[17:43] <oerheks> pitch, in the installer, yes. Install (entire disk with ZFS) 24.04 https://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/450/builds/289192/testcases/1784/results
[17:47] <pitch> oerheks: will the server live iso be able to import zpools? or can i just install the needed module/driver to a new system?
[17:48] <oerheks> for the server iso, you could better reask in #ubuntu-server
[17:49] <ioria> pitch, not sure server iso has zfs
[17:50] <ioria> pitch, no, it hasn't : https://releases.ubuntu.com/noble/ubuntu-24.04-live-server-amd64.manifest
[18:24] <mr-rich-76> Hi ... having an issue; Ubuntu 22.04.4 ... Kept getting a message from the updater saying that certain packages couldn't be installed due to missing dependancies. the dialog offered a "partial upgrade" option.
[18:26] <mr-rich-76> Tried that and now GUI won't start. Dumps me to a CLI logon screen. Tried startx, but it said "something went wrong" and a logout button.
[18:26] <mr-rich-76> Not using Wayland ...
[18:26] <mr-rich-76> Any help?
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> mr-rich-76: feel free to share a !paste with the volunteers you see in your apt
[18:27] <gaelheart> can you boot into safe mode
[18:27] <bprompt> !paste | mr-rich-76
[18:27] <mr-rich-76> I'm not on that box right now, this is my laptop running 20.04 ...
[18:28] <mr-rich-76> my 22.04 box has no GUI ...
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> mr-rich-76: best to come back seeking support when you're on the box
[18:29] <mr-rich-76> lotuspsychje: No GUI ... it's running, but X won't start ...
[18:29] <gaelheart> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[18:30] <mr-rich-76> gaelheart: I'll try that ...
[18:30] <gaelheart> ok
[18:33] <mr-rich-76> gaelheart: errored out ... can I paste a pic somewhere?
[18:33] <gaelheart> gaelheart@outlook.com
[18:34] <bprompt> mr-rich-76: snipboard.io   <---- you can copy your picture and at snipboard.io just press ctrl-v to paste it
[18:35] <gaelheart> mr-rich you can also use microsoft copilot for troubleshooting.  saved my backend more than once
[18:35] <gaelheart> its a linux god
[18:37] <mr-rich-76> bprompt: It's a photo, not a screenshot ... :(
[18:37] <bprompt> mr-rich-76: same, snipboard.io allows you to post either, you can ctrl-v or just upload a file
[18:37] <gaelheart> an image is an image
[18:38] <bprompt> mr-rich-76: btw imgur.com allows the same
[18:39] <mr-rich-76> gaelheart: sent photo ... trying imgur
[18:40] <gaelheart> ok let me see...
[18:40] <gaelheart> to my email?  i didnt get it yet
[18:42] <mr-rich-76> Got it on snipboard: https://snipboard.io/XUE9Y7.jpg
[18:43] <gaelheart> looking...
[18:45] <gaelheart> sudo apt-get update
[18:45] <gaelheart> sudo apt-get install -f
[18:45] <gaelheart> in order
[18:46] <gaelheart> Identify the problematic package(s) causing the issue.
[18:46] <gaelheart> Remove them using:
[18:46] <gaelheart> sudo apt-get remove <package-name>
[18:46] <gaelheart> Reinstall the packages you removed:
[18:46] <gaelheart> sudo apt-get install <package-name>
[18:47] <gaelheart> Check Software Sources:
[18:47] <gaelheart> Go to “Software & Updates” in your system settings.
[18:47] <gaelheart> Ensure all necessary repositories are enabled.
[18:47] <gaelheart> then : sudo apt-get upgrade
[18:47] <oerheks> i see, first; run updates before you install anything mr-rich-76
[18:48] <gaelheart> Remember to reboot your system after making changes. If you encounter any difficulties, feel free to ask for more help
[18:49] <oerheks> but if this is actually pop os, there is an other channel for system76 support
[18:49] <mr-rich-76> oerheks: not popos ...
[18:52] <mr-rich-76> new pic: https://snipboard.io/Y01jiV.jpg
[18:52] <oerheks> system76-apt-preferences.dpkg  in the directory /etc/apt/preferences.d/ says different
[18:54] <oerheks> did you add any PPA?
[18:54] <oerheks> yes, ppa:system76-dev/stable
[18:56] <gaelheart> do the auto remove, then sudo apt-get upgrade, the reboot
[18:56] <gaelheart> then reboot
[19:01] <mr-rich-76> gaelheart: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed ...
[19:02] <gaelheart> try removing and reinstalling gdm3
[19:05] <gaelheart> Reinstall ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[19:05] <gaelheart> sudo apt install --reinstall ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[19:07] <gaelheart> force gnome shell:
[19:07] <gaelheart> sudo apt install gnome-shell-common=42.5-0ubuntu1
[19:07] <gaelheart> Replace 42.5-0ubuntu1 with the exact version mentioned in your error message.
[19:07] <gaelheart> Run the following command to check the installed version of gnome-shell-common:
[19:07] <gaelheart> dpkg -l gnome-shell-common
[19:08] <gaelheart> After completing the above steps, run:
[19:08] <gaelheart> sudo apt update
[19:08] <gaelheart> sudo apt upgradeReboot your system to apply the changes.
[19:08] <gaelheart> After completing the above steps, run:
[19:08] <gaelheart> sudo apt update
[19:08] <gaelheart> sudo apt upgrade
[19:08] <gaelheart> ￼
[19:08] <gaelheart> Reboot your system to apply the changes.
[19:09] <oerheks> join #pop!_os or remove ppa:system76-dev/stable
[19:09] <bprompt> heheh
[19:10] <bprompt> gaelheart: you may want to use the comma a bit more, instead of the <enter> key =), otherwise the Drone Bot will trigger
[19:11] <tomreyn> copying + pasting multiple lines also causes you to get quieted
[19:11] <gaelheart> ok
[19:11] <mr-rich-76> ok ... go to go  ... I'll have to try this later .. saving  chat log ...
[19:11] <gaelheart> good luck
[19:11] <tomreyn> mr-rich-76: don't install ubuntu-desktop if you don't want a GUI on this computer
[19:13] <mr-rich-76> tomreyn: I'm an eye-candy junkie ... :)
[19:13] <mr-rich-76> back later ...
[19:15] <tomreyn> please also point out you're running pop! os (or use their apt repository) next time you seek support here
[19:29] <Guest79> Hello is this ubuntu official channel?
[19:30] <ravage> This is the Ubuntu Community support channel 
[19:30] <oerheks> :-)
[19:30] <bprompt> !ask | Guest79
[19:30] <Guest79> I can't tell how many folks are so wanted to make sure it's more than 1 at least
[19:30] <Guest79> Here*
[19:31] <Guest79> New to web hat
[19:31] <Guest79> Chat
[19:32] <Guest79> I'm twice removed on my laptop right now on a phone... I've got a liveusb booted trying to figure out if I can get my nvidia card to detect
[19:32] <Guest79> But it's offline since my internet is on the phone but I can download from it
[19:33] <bprompt> Guest79: how old is  your laptop?   installing ubuntu 24.04 I assume?    from what I recall, the nvidia drivers may just be included in the installation
[19:34] <Guest79> Shouldn't I be able to see the pci details on it? I guess it doesn't come with nvdia drivers in the 2.4gb iso?
[19:34] <oerheks> you will need internet to install then
[19:35] <bprompt> Guest79: hmmm sure, you can try -> lshw -C video <-- or run -> lsusb <-
[19:35] <Guest79> No it's 18 because I didn't know what to choose and it's an older card it's an nvidia 970 and I think my problem is related to needing to flash an uefi compatible firmware on it and I think that might mean I need an mbr boot?
[19:36] <oerheks> 18.04 lts? that is old, sure you can use 22.04 or 24.04
[19:36] <Guest79> Laptop is pretty new it's an ideapad3 um I think 11th generation maybe?
[19:37] <bprompt> Guest79: hmmm you have the LiveUSB on right now, I'm guessing you can set "tethering" on your smartphone so it becomes a wifi access point your laptop can use, and the LiveUSB session does wifi and can connect to that to get the drivers at installation time
[19:38] <ravage> also usb tethering should just work
[19:38] <oerheks> for wifi on that ideapad 3 (former chromebook) you need kernel 6.2+ , like in 22.04 or higher
[19:38] <bprompt> Guest79: if your machine is fairly new, get 24.04, its drivers database will be large enough to cover most of your hardware, and you'd want as much hardware compatibility as available
[19:39] <oerheks> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2489591
[19:39] <oerheks> bprompt, +1
[19:39] <oerheks> 18,04 is useless
[19:39] <Guest79> I maybe broke it nesd to reboot I tried installing the offline .run from nvidia to start with going to restart
[19:40] <Guest79> It ran out of disk apace I guess got an io error
[19:41] <bprompt> Guest79: well, first off, let's nevermind the 18.04 iso, get the 24.04 :), burn it to USB and try the installation using a tethering access point from your phone
[19:44] <Guest79> Apparently it's not technically uefi compat right now I don't think any way to see how linux boots
[19:45] <Guest79> Was hoping to flash a new firmware on it but suspect may need to boot mbr mode for access
[19:45] <Guest79> I can try Hotspot let's see...
[19:45] <bprompt> Guest79: hmmm the LiveUSB session is a hybrid, it can do either MBR or UEFI
[19:47] <Guest79> 6gbs for iso?
[19:48] <oerheks> yes, nice and big
[19:50] <bprompt> Guest79: haven't checked its size, but I can see it being that, yes, more features and more drivers added
[19:54] <Guest79> Funny enough bprompt I used to always get stuck in that half way between mbr uefi seemed like
[19:54] <Guest79> On windows the card kind of detects but from what I'm reading it denies access in that mode
[19:54] <Guest79> For firmware
[19:55] <oerheks> that 970 does not need firmware, but the driver.
[19:55] <Guest79> Downloading the 6gb now any way to allow for room to install stuff?
[19:57] <Guest79> Are you sure oerheks?  Gpu z showed it not checked for uefi and there is a new bios for it but can't seem to find access to  write it
[19:58] <Guest79> Hoping linux will do better for that maybe 11 home is getting kind of ridiculous bitlocker secure boot uefi what is on this laptop
[19:59] <Guest79> In windows it showed as installed and working just no output to display
[20:00] <bprompt> Guest79: room to install stuff?  how big is your HDD? 10gbs?   come on now =)
[20:01] <Guest79> Well one of them is full I think sadly
[20:02] <gordonjcp> just buy a new SSD
[20:02] <Guest79> Was reading someone had a way to have space on them like a portable but maybe needed a custom install
[20:03] <gordonjcp> Guest79: what problem are you trying to solve?
[20:04] <Guest79> Pretty cool isn't it minus crazies it's pretty awesome I remember a 20mb hard disk double with compression
[20:04] <bprompt> Guest79: doable, with "persistent storage" in the ISO, hmmmm I don't think the iso for the installation has that by default, but is doable that you can use the same iso later on and burn it to another USB stick with "persistent storage", using persistent storage you can run the LiveUSB session and install stuff and set settings and they'll be saved for subsequent sessions
[20:04] <Guest100> May I ask for some Ubuntu configuration help here?
[20:05] <bprompt> Guest79: that said, you CAN install stuff from the LiveUSB, however without persistent storage, once you close it, the installs and settings will also go
[20:05] <tomreyn> Guest100: sure, if anyone knows about it you'll get a reply.
[20:05] <Guest79> I think this laptop is new and uefi or secure boot is blocking the video card I guess maybe I'm using a laptop with an egpu cable I guess I should have bought a newer cars thought the older one would be more compatible
[20:06] <bprompt> !ask | Guest100
[20:06] <Guest79> Card*
[20:09] <Guest79> So I'm just trying to get a nvidia 970 to detect but I think I need a few update for that which might mean booting linux in mbr mode for a utility?
[20:10] <Guest79> In windows it pretty much shows up just doesn't work
[20:10] <Guest79> No clocks in gpu z but shows good in dev mgr
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Guest79: that doesn't make a lot of sense
[20:12] <Guest79> Any way to see how it booted mbr of uefi and maybe I can find a utility for update at least rule that out worst case I guess
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Guest79: in Linux it should just appear as a fairly "dumb" graphics card without any special drivers
[20:12] <bprompt> Guest79: if  you installed win11, that simply means it needs the windows11 drivers, nothing else, no biggie, just download them, in Linux try the generic driver first, see if it fits your bill
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Guest79: with nouveau it ought to work reasonably well as an accelerated card, and you should also be able to install NVidia's binary-only drivers
[20:12] <oerheks> make sure fastboot is disabled
[20:13] <oerheks> but i thought it was a chromebook?
[20:13] <Guest79> Gordon: even now yes?
[20:13] <gordonjcp> a chromebook with an NVidia GTX970?
[20:13] <Guest79> No drivers I should be able to get display output?
[20:14] <gordonjcp> Guest79: are there any drivers loaded when it's in the BIOS screen?
[20:14] <gordonjcp> Guest79: well, I mean, yes, there are really, but they're just generic VGA
[20:14] <Guest79> Which I'm not sadly I don't see it I'm dmesg though in windows it shows like it is working but not
[20:15] <bprompt> Guest79: I'd like to point out, a while ago, on an installation, since  I have an AMD gpu, later on I installed the amd drivers, performance with the amd drivers from amd's site was no different, the only difference I noticed was over 100mbs extra drivers, but it worked just the same, all apps performed just as fast
[20:15] <Guest79> Nope no chromebook for this one came with 11
[20:15] <Guest79> Sadly which is such a terrible os
[20:16] <Guest79> But is what is most compatible as bad as it is id like to increase compatibility on Linux side if possible :)
[20:16] <oerheks> use that windows to upgrade your bios..
[20:16] <Guest79> It's a monopoly seems to me
[20:17] <gordonjcp> anything running a GTX970 is going to be old, and will probably give a pretty miserable experience on modern Windows
[20:17] <Guest100> I'm once again on a freshly installed Ubuntu Unity 24.04, it`s the normal installation this time. With apt I installed hplip and hplip-gui. I haven`t added a printer. The Dropdown is broken, I googled and found this exact problem here https://askubuntu.com/questions/1107773/how-to-fix-broken-dropdown-menu-of-hplip-tray-icon-in-ubuntu-mate-18-04-lts
[20:17] <Guest100> I tried the solution (even if it`s for an older Ubuntu version) after the reboot when I start hplip the windows flashes for a second then it terminats without an error. I removed hplip and hplip-gui rebootet and reinstalled it. Now I`m it starts again but the dropdown is still broken. What do I have to change to get the dropdown working again?
[20:18] <bprompt> Guest79: well, for win11 is simply a matter of getting the drivers, you can usually get them from the OEM's site, namely the vendor's site, say your chromebook is made by hmmm Asus, then Asus may have the win11 drivers for it, they differ some from the ones from nVidia's site
[20:18] <Guest79> Well I'm just comparing to integrated was thinking I could use the wifi card to prob boost 10x with even older card but didn't think about it being so old and uefi/mbr
[20:19] <Guest79> Otherwise laptop overheats and dies on simple stuff it seems
[20:19] <bprompt> Guest79: however, try the installed ones in Linux first, see if they work as you need, don't be too fooled that the ones from nVidia are going to differ a hell lot, it can be a 50% / 50% probability
[20:19] <Guest79> Nope nothing in bios it's all internal screen
[20:20] <Guest79> I also didn't want to get a super card with 1x pcie
[20:20] <Guest79> So hoped the 970 was a good middle ground
[20:20] <gordonjcp> I'm kind of still not clear what the problem is
[20:21] <oerheks> gordonjcp, me neither, he did not boot 24.04 yet, AFAIK
[20:21] <bprompt> right
[20:22] <gordonjcp> oerheks: oh, I mean that would be a good start
[20:22] <gordonjcp> but really about the only fully-supported cards in Linux with decent acceleration are NVidia
[20:22] <bprompt> Guest79: so, download 24.04 first, burn and boot with it, let's see  how it rolls
[20:22] <Guest79> It's downloaded let's see...
[20:24] <tomreyn> Guest100: are you the person who keeps saying you're using ubuntu unity but actually are using plain ubuntu? where did you download? one of the "env" variables should tell you which desktop you're using.
[20:24] <gordonjcp> is Unity still a thing? I disliked it when it came out but I prefer it now to Gnome
[20:25] <Guest100> gordonjcp I downloaded the ISO from https://ubuntuunity.org/
[20:25] <oerheks> Guest79, go into printers, you might see the button restart cups service next to your printer
[20:25] <tomreyn> okay so you really do
[20:25] <oerheks> got that too this week
[20:26] <gordonjcp> just while there are folk really talking about support
[20:26] <gordonjcp> does 24.04 fix the NVidia/X.org painfully slow terminal bug with mutter?
[20:27] <Guest100> tomreyn I downloaded the ISO from https://ubuntuunity.org/
[20:27] <Guest100> Terminal $ lsb_release -a
[20:27] <Guest100> No LSB modules are available.
[20:27] <oerheks> gordonjcp, unity is still under active development
[20:27] <Guest100> Distributor ID:    Ubuntu
[20:27] <Guest100> Description:    Ubuntu 24.04 LTS
[20:27] <Guest100> Release:    24.04
[20:27] <bprompt> Guest100:    -----> <oerheks> go into printers, you might see the button restart cups service next to your printer
[20:27] <bprompt> Guest100: he just got the wrong Guest =)
[20:27] <oerheks> oops
[20:28] <bprompt> !paste | Guest100
[20:28] <oerheks> guest<tab> is not always doing what i want
[20:29] <bprompt> Guest100: pasting multilines in a few seconds, the Drone bot picks it up as flood, just a script, and will trigger a flood protection, so hmm keep that  in mind, that said, there is no extra taxatoin if you want to use more characters per line :)
[20:29] <tomreyn> Guest100: you can use:  lsb_release -ds | nc termbin.com 9999   if you like
[20:30] <tomreyn> Guest100: or   lsb_release -a | nc termbin.com 9999
[20:31] <Guest100> bprompt sudo service cups restart like that?
[20:31] <bprompt> Guest100: you may want oerheks for that  :), but yes
[20:32] <tomreyn> sudo systemctl restart cups   thought service should also work, i think
[20:32] <Guest100> But isn`t this a hp-systray issue?
[20:33] <tomreyn> yes, most likely
[20:33] <tomreyn> you can run that from a terminal and see what it prints on screen
[20:33] <bprompt> Guest100: yes, but I think what oerheks suggested is "retrigger the app for the systray to recreate its menus"
[20:35] <Guest100> https://bpa.st/WUFQ
[20:36] <Guest100> Sry I can`t find the button oerheks has refered to. :(
[20:37] <oerheks> np, it appears when needed.
[20:38] <oerheks> sudo systemctl status cups.service
[20:39] <Guest100> https://bpa.st/Q6EQ
[20:39] <oerheks> Tasks: 13 ....
[20:40] <oerheks> that was my problem too, no way to cancel those
[20:40] <Guest100> how can there be any tasks?
[20:40] <oerheks> those could be from yesterday ?
[20:41] <Guest100> nope I did a fresh installation today
[20:41] <oerheks> List all jobs:   lpq
[20:42] <Guest100> https://bpa.st/ZUFA
[20:42] <oerheks> oh
[20:42] <Guest100> this installation has never been connected to a printer
[20:43] <oerheks> not your current HP printer?
[20:43] <oerheks> err .. why not?
[20:44] <tomreyn> well, it's a fresh installation
[20:44] <Guest100> the pc is for an eldar family member and the printer is there. I "just" wanted to install and configure it for them
[20:44] <Guest100> so basically I`m here with the pc making it ready but I don`t have the printer here
[20:45] <oerheks> i see, i wonder now if that is required to make the menu work properly
[20:46] <gordonjcp> the neat thing about Linux is that printers are a total pain in the hoop to configure
[20:46] <gordonjcp> but they either work straight away, or they will never work at all
[20:46] <Guest100> I install every LTS for them and every time hp-systray is broken, but the fix is always something new
[20:47] <gordonjcp> contrast this with Windows, where it looks like it went smoothly but now you're printing A0 technical diagrams on the Occupational Health Department's thermal label printer for sample bottles
[20:47] <gordonjcp> but it won't ever tell you that
[20:47] <gordonjcp> and if you find out, it won't tell you why, or how to stop it
[20:47] <Guest100> printing works fine I guess it`s only the hp-systray that does nothing, which is bad because they don`t use a terminal.
[20:47] <gordonjcp> those rolls of sticky labels for urine sample bottles are really expensive, incidentally
[20:48] <gordonjcp> I'm glad it wasn't me that blew through five of them
[20:49] <tomreyn> Guest100: does the cups web ui list any printers, though?
[20:49] <Guest100> where do I find it?
[20:49] <tomreyn> http://localhost:631
[20:49] <bprompt> Guest100: another consideration will be using another desktop manager, different manager, different systray app
[20:49] <bprompt> Guest100: or even window manager as well
[20:50] <bprompt> Guest100: for example, I use LXQT, it has its own systray, now Kwin sessions  use another systray as well
[20:50] <tomreyn> i would also recommend to try to start hp-systray through dbus as discussed on the bug report you linked - but from a terminal
[20:50] <tomreyn> dbus-launch hp-systray -x
[20:51] <Guest100> cups web doesn`t list a printer
[20:51] <bprompt> Guest100: you said it wasn't plugged in =)
[20:51] <Guest100> yes the printer isn`t here
[20:52] <bprompt> Guest100: then I guess cups web is correct :)
[20:52] <tomreyn> configuring a printer queue/spool is one thing, having the printer connected and having printouts work is another
[20:52] <Guest100> right all I try is the get this pc ready than I`ll bring it to the printer
[20:53] <bprompt> Guest100: though often times you have have a PDF imagewriter as a printer
[20:53] <tomreyn> https://packages.ubuntu.com/noble/all/hplip-gui/filelist lists several HP utilities in /usr/bin which can be used to configure and diagnose hplip
[20:54] <bprompt> Guest100: but as I said, if the issue is just the systray menu, well, may want to consider another window/desktop manager with a different systray
[20:55] <Guest100> Unity is set in stone for this pc, as I said the users are very old and learned how to use Unity not Gnome or something else
[20:56] <gordonjcp> Guest100: my mum is 86 and managed to learn to use "standard" Ubuntu gnome desktop after using MATE for years
[20:57] <Guest100> good on you and your mum. I needed 10 years for my mum to get here to the point where she was able to use Unity
[20:57] <tomreyn> hp-setup is the graphical configuration tool for HP printers. you'll need to configure a hplip printer to make it available, so that the systray GUI can find it and won't quit with the message you showed (about no existing HP devices)
[20:59] <tomreyn> this will definitely be easier while the device is connected (but, if you know all the details correctly, should also be possible while it's not connected)
[21:00] <Guest100> Ok thanks I will do that. You know I just wanted to prepare this PC as good as I can before I bring it back
[21:01] <tomreyn> sure, that's understandable.
[21:02] <Guest100> Ok so I learned today hplip is something I have to deal with when I have the printer in front of me :D
[21:02] <tomreyn> or when you have the configuration files available from the previous installation
[21:03] <Guest100> sadly the printer will be a new one, so the backup doesn`t help here
[21:05] <bprompt> Guest100: well, I can tell you a hmmm happening to me once, I burned an iso for someone with some apps, I installed VLC in it, so it worked from the liveUSB session, well, I installed VLC in a session on my machine, once I ran the session from the same USB on his machine, VLC was looking for my soundcard =), so once you have the printer plugged it, may just do it
[21:11] <Guest100> From the experience of the last LTS versions. The printer will work just fine and will tinker around 1-2h to get hp-systray working while my mum sits next to me.
[21:13] <oerheks> have fun!
[21:13] <tomreyn> that's one of the reasons i got myself the same printer as mom
[21:14] <Guest100> tomreyn ROFL
[21:18] <ProJu> Hello peeps, I hope you are all good. I am running a fresh install of Ubuntu Server 24.04 (with Ubuntu-desktop as post installation) but I am not able to remote desktop from another ubuntu machine (RDP with Remmina). Can anyone please support?
[21:21] <bprompt> ProJu: not sure if the guys at #ubuntu-server may have better ideas
[21:22] <ProJu> @bprompt, I will give it a go :) thanks for the hint
[21:27] <tomreyn> for graphical things you're probably fine here
[21:38] <Guest100> thank you all bye :)