| BluesKaj | Hi all | 12:08 |
|---|---|---|
| santa_ | hi everyone | 19:11 |
| santa_ | RikMills, tsimonq2 and anyone interested in KF6 | 19:11 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Hello | 19:12 |
| santa_ | like I mentioned yesterday, there's a number of problems with the KF6 packages | 19:12 |
| santa_ | hey sgmoore :) | 19:12 |
| santa_ | welcome to the discussion | 19:12 |
| santa_ | so... | 19:12 |
| santa_ | I have been working on some initial KA support for KF6 | 19:12 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Excellent | 19:13 |
| santa_ | I have already done an initial test rebuild last weekend but unfortunately I didn't have time to discuss it with you because I have been busy with the night activities of Gotham city here | 19:14 |
| santa_ | anyway, the test rebuild I did last weekend was a bit out of date, so I'm repeating it | 19:14 |
| RikMills | okaaaay :P | 19:14 |
| santa_ | also I'm doing an additional one with our pkg-kde-tools as it is in the archive | 19:15 |
| santa_ | let me give you a couple of links... | 19:15 |
| santa_ | (actually 4) | 19:15 |
| santa_ | area51 (with pkg-kde-tools) as it is in the archive: | 19:16 |
| santa_ | - https://area51.tritemio.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_frameworks.html | 19:16 |
| santa_ | - https://area51.tritemio.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_other.html | 19:16 |
| santa_ | watertown (with modified pkg-kde-tools) modified: | 19:17 |
| santa_ | - https://area51.tritemio.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_frameworks.html | 19:17 |
| santa_ | sorry | 19:17 |
| santa_ | it's actually: https://watertown.tritemio.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_frameworks.html | 19:18 |
| santa_ | and https://watertown.tritemio.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_other.html | 19:18 |
| santa_ | ok, so as we can see, there's a number of problems | 19:19 |
| santa_ | first of all, let me tell you can disregard the attica FTBFS, I would need to adjust a config in the servers to make them able to build that package | 19:20 |
| santa_ | that one doesn't happen at LP | 19:20 |
| santa_ | they are other legitimate issues, however | 19:20 |
| santa_ | first of all it's something we missed in pkg-kde-tools: we didn't add kubuntu's specific support for list missing and lintian | 19:21 |
| santa_ | meaning @ area51 we are going to see a lot of complaints about that, but not on watertown, because I have the fix for that in there | 19:22 |
| santa_ | I'm going to push the changes to git, and if someone with permissions is so kind to upload it I would appreciate it :) | 19:23 |
| RikMills | sounds fine | 19:24 |
| santa_ | done | 19:28 |
| santa_ | that being said, tsimonq2 requested a list of issues yesterday here, so that's why I added a section at the end of https://pad.riseup.net/p/uUGH3GQsHLZz1--651Kk-keep | 19:29 |
| santa_ | I'm going to edit it now | 19:30 |
| santa_ | second thing that got my attention - and this is also a problem in debian's packaging: | 19:32 |
| santa_ | - some packages come with acc tests, others not | 19:32 |
| santa_ | - all of those with acc tests, have the acc tests broken | 19:33 |
| santa_ | - I have a solution for it | 19:34 |
| santa_ | - probably we want to disable them for Ubuntu | 19:34 |
| santa_ | some time ago RikMills disabled the acc tests for kf5 | 19:35 |
| santa_ | if I remember well the reason was that ubuntu's autopkgtest infra wasn't as good as debian, meaning it was very expensive in comp. resources to keep them enabled | 19:36 |
| santa_ | however I added some support in KA to re-enable them on the fly in my servers | 19:37 |
| santa_ | so all of this means: | 19:37 |
| RikMills | that and the fact that nearly all the fails were spurious so wastign devs time | 19:38 |
| santa_ | - we consume less resources @ ubuntu official infra, packages get migrated out of -proposed faster | 19:38 |
| santa_ | - we can still see the results in my servers | 19:38 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Fine with me | 19:38 |
| santa_ | also what RikMills just said is correct | 19:38 |
| santa_ | the whole thing was very expensive | 19:38 |
| santa_ | ok, so at some point I will comment the solution in case you want to fix in debian (probably after the test rebuilds are done) | 19:42 |
| Eickmeyer | The whole point of syncing from Debian was to get the packages in to use KA later. Syncing basically allows the Archive Admins to automatically approve the packages so that the names are in. Now that that's done, we don't need them to manually approve each package. Makes our jobs easier, actually. Worth the expense. | 19:42 |
| santa_ | Eickmeyer: I was talking about the acc tests | 19:43 |
| Eickmeyer | Oh, well, that might be a little time-consuming, but at least it's not a matter of waiting on someone else to approve a package. Just disable & upload. | 19:44 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: undeniably true, but going forward we need to be clear where to go | 19:44 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: indeed | 19:44 |
| santa_ | in any case I hope people understand better now that syncing packages from debian doesn't mean everything is going to be all right | 19:45 |
| santa_ | also I hope people understands better now the point of KA | 19:45 |
| RikMills | well yeah, it never was for kf5 so kf6 is no different | 19:46 |
| santa_ | (I didn't invent KA by the way, it already existed) | 19:46 |
| Eickmeyer | Syncing from Debian was supposed to be a means to an end. That said, tsimonq2, being a DD and a member of the KDE/Qt team in Debian, can always fix the package in Debian, upload, and then it'll just sync here. | 19:46 |
| Eickmeyer | I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, I'm not arguing one way or the other right now. | 19:47 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: that supposes we want the version in debian. often we are packaing ahead or have good reasons not to ant thier changes | 19:47 |
| santa_ | what I did here, in kubuntu was improving it taking ideas from a similar automation I had to build debian packages for another distro | 19:48 |
| RikMills | but merge changes, yes | 19:48 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: Yeah, like I said, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. We obviously might want to do something different. | 19:48 |
| santa_ | (improving it = improving KA ) | 19:48 |
| RikMills | one thing I want to say is that not just now, but going forward we need to not have kf6 auto sync without review. so means having a small packinging delta such as maintainer and Vcs | 19:51 |
| Eickmeyer | So, just to take an example from the Ubuntu Desktop team: oftentimes they'll push their changes upstream to Debian, and oftentimes those will be accepted. However, there are some downstream changes that happen, but most of the packaging is done in Debian. That said, I'm not arguing against KA, I'm just saying we shouldn't have as much divergence as | 19:51 |
| Eickmeyer | we do. | 19:51 |
| RikMills | this maean we always have control of what version and changes we are shipping | 19:51 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> I am DD as well, a workaround when I don't have upload rights here... I need to fix that as it seems DMB is not | 19:52 |
| santa_ | we don't have that much divergence anyway | 19:52 |
| santa_ | debian's kf5 packages came originally from ubuntu | 19:52 |
| santa_ | sgmoore did a significant part of the job and we helped her with patches and such | 19:52 |
| Eickmeyer | santa_: Understandable, but that was then. This is now. Let's try to work with what we've got and make it work. | 19:53 |
| santa_ | anyway, another issue, very predictable: symbols files | 19:54 |
| RikMills | oh boy | 19:54 |
| santa_ | I've obseved in last weekends test build both: | 19:54 |
| Eickmeyer | Yes, symbol files. Agreed. That's something even tsimonq2 has struggled with vs the LXQt team in Debian. | 19:55 |
| santa_ | - some packages with symbols not added in the files, so they get displayed in orange in the status pages | 19:56 |
| RikMills | I did message simon earlier but he doesn't appear to be online ATM | 19:56 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: Same. | 19:56 |
| santa_ | - some packages FTBFS'ing because of missing symbols | 19:56 |
| Eickmeyer | (I'm supposed to be getting stuff ready for my move) | 19:56 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> The symbol files should have been recreated. | 19:57 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: I fell it. I have to move house in the next few weeks | 19:57 |
| RikMills | *feel | 19:57 |
| santa_ | regarding symbols files, the technique here would be having separate symbols files for debian and ubuntu | 19:57 |
| santa_ | i.e. same than kf5 | 19:58 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: We have a week to be out. We start moving and get the keys to the new place today. | 19:58 |
| RikMills | that is not unexpected | 19:58 |
| santa_ | as you probably already know we have this update-symbols-ppa tool | 19:58 |
| RikMills | ^^ santa_ | 19:58 |
| Eickmeyer | Agreed, not unexpected for the symbols. | 19:59 |
| santa_ | thing is, we don't have a PPA yet | 19:59 |
| Eickmeyer | Reminder: this is a transition. Things will fail, things are going to go like this. We adapt, we fix, we overcome. | 19:59 |
| RikMills | and we win! | 20:00 |
| santa_ | so let me comment on the status of things in our infra: | 20:00 |
| Eickmeyer | ^ Exactly | 20:00 |
| RikMills | starships troopers reference :P | 20:00 |
| Eickmeyer | hehe | 20:01 |
| santa_ | - I have already created a set of git repos for kf6 with kubuntu_oracular_archive and kubuntu_oracular_staging branches | 20:01 |
| santa_ | - we still don't have a PPA, which would be very convenient for symbols fixing | 20:01 |
| santa_ | so... | 20:01 |
| santa_ | could we please have a frameworks6-staging PPA? | 20:01 |
| Eickmeyer | We can make a PPA easily, that's not a problem. | 20:02 |
| santa_ | I think I don't have permissions to create it under kubuntu-ppa | 20:02 |
| RikMills | we need an esimate of size for LP team | 20:02 |
| santa_ | same than this one: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks | 20:03 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: PPAs are 4GB by default now. | 20:03 |
| santa_ | same thing, just replacing 'frameworks' with 'frameworks6' | 20:03 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: that size is way too small | 20:04 |
| Eickmeyer | Well, just make it, go to #launchpad an ask for 8GB? | 20:04 |
| santa_ | I've just checked, the one pointed above is 20 gb | 20:04 |
| Eickmeyer | ohcrap | 20:04 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: we need 20-30 | 20:04 |
| Eickmeyer | Then ask for 30GB to be safe. | 20:04 |
| RikMills | yes | 20:05 |
| Eickmeyer | I am a ninja but it won't let me make a PPA there. 'tis lame. | 20:05 |
| santa_ | yes, we need more space than usual for all of our PPAs | 20:05 |
| santa_ | I think RikMills should have perms | 20:05 |
| Eickmeyer | #launchpad is usually very understanding. I don't know exactly who to ping though. | 20:05 |
| RikMills | santa_: I do | 20:05 |
| santa_ | please go ahead then | 20:06 |
| Eickmeyer | I'd give you a PPA in ~ubuntustudio-ppa, but that might be silly. 🙃 | 20:06 |
| Eickmeyer | Ok, off to pack the dog food, brb | 20:08 |
| santa_ | ack | 20:08 |
| RikMills | santa_: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks6 | 20:09 |
| santa_ | thanks a lot, I will add that one to KA's default config, replacing mine | 20:09 |
| santa_ | being the PPA topic mentioned, another thing, which I just documented: | 20:10 |
| santa_ | some packages might be still using the kf5 sequencer | 20:10 |
| RikMills | what? | 20:11 |
| santa_ | yes | 20:11 |
| santa_ | kholidays has this in debian/rules: | 20:12 |
| santa_ | dh $@ --with kf5,pkgkde_symbolshelper --buildsystem kf5 --without build_stamp | 20:12 |
| * RikMills facepalms | 20:12 | |
| santa_ | in its kf6 packaging | 20:12 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Yikes | 20:12 |
| santa_ | yeah, I don't facepalm, because for me, these kind of stuff is expected in debian's packaging | 20:13 |
| santa_ | anyway, at some point I will come up with a list if they are more | 20:13 |
| santa_ | in case you also want to fix in debian | 20:13 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Yes, list, I will fix | 20:14 |
| RikMills | I have asked for a ppa six bump in #launchpad | 20:16 |
| RikMills | s/six/size | 20:16 |
| RikMills | may need a LP question opened, and given people are on sprints maybe not happen until nest week | 20:18 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Likely true | 20:19 |
| santa_ | having the PPA created already is a great thing | 20:20 |
| santa_ | that allows me to move forward with KA | 20:20 |
| santa_ | anyway, more things | 20:20 |
| santa_ | some time ago I wrote a store titled, if I remember well: 'no country for old cantaloupes' based on a real story | 20:21 |
| santa_ | so let me clue you in real quick: among other things, I did here (ubuntu) the packaging automation they didn't allow me to do there (debian) | 20:22 |
| santa_ | meaning they don't have the tools we have here | 20:23 |
| santa_ | meaning they don't have these kind of status web pages I linked above to look for automatic issues, so: | 20:23 |
| santa_ | - some packages will have some lintian warnings that went unnoticed at debian | 20:24 |
| RikMills | sppeciaited. kubuntu could not have continued without those ka improvements | 20:25 |
| Eickmeyer | RE: lintian warnings: are standards-versions up-to-date? | 20:25 |
| santa_ | 'sppeciaited'? | 20:25 |
| santa_ | are thou verbiage directed unto me? | 20:26 |
| santa_ | :) | 20:26 |
| Eickmeyer | I think he meant appreciated. :) | 20:26 |
| RikMills | appreciated | 20:26 |
| Eickmeyer | ^ | 20:26 |
| santa_ | ah, god | 20:26 |
| santa_ | thanks :) | 20:26 |
| Eickmeyer | LOL | 20:26 |
| santa_ | anyway, and: | 20:27 |
| santa_ | - some packages might be missing optional build depends | 20:27 |
| santa_ | we detect both things with those status pages | 20:27 |
| * RikMills is typing on a client with no sanity checking of spelling mistypes | 20:28 | |
| Eickmeyer | optional build depends> expected, probably weren't considered important enough | 20:28 |
| RikMills | or at least that is my excuse | 20:28 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Yes your work is very much appreciated, thank you | 20:28 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: Git gud, use a web-based IRC client. :P j/k | 20:28 |
| santa_ | I think they still don't have an effective way to detect this @ debian (optional build depends) | 20:29 |
| Eickmeyer | santa_: That's my point, they likely did it manually. | 20:29 |
| santa_ | yeah, looking at the build logs one by one, following grandpa's recipe :) | 20:30 |
| Eickmeyer | However, like I said, a lot of these things are expected: the whole point was to get the packages in so that the AAs didn't have to do manual reviews on ten million packages. | 20:30 |
| santa_ | anyway, I'm going to document this as well, for Simon and everyone else | 20:30 |
| RikMills | sounds good | 20:32 |
| Eickmeyer | I think the biggest thing is to get the FTBFS packages uh... building, and then the autopkgtests, and then the lintian cleanup. Probably in that order, since that seems like a priority order. | 20:33 |
| RikMills | on the above we need to be able to generate a status page for kf6? | 20:35 |
| RikMills | beyon what is on excuses | 20:35 |
| Eickmeyer | Perhaps a checklist of sorts. | 20:35 |
| santa_ | yes, pending on KA: | 20:35 |
| santa_ | - test ppa-build-status | 20:36 |
| santa_ | - test ka-iron-hand | 20:36 |
| santa_ | - test kubuntu-retry-builds | 20:36 |
| santa_ | and many more | 20:36 |
| RikMills | nice | 20:36 |
| Eickmeyer | 👍 | 20:37 |
| santa_ | what I did is just the minimum to do these test rebuilds to have the big picture in general | 20:37 |
| santa_ | so yeah, probably KA needs more kf6 support work | 20:37 |
| Eickmeyer | A good bird's eye view is nice to have. From there we can always zoom in and get the details as we need them. | 20:37 |
| Eickmeyer | However, FYI: I'm going to be off IRC all weekend as my server, which runs my bouncer, will be taken down for the move. | 20:39 |
| RikMills | Eickmeyer: ack. best wishes for the move | 20:42 |
| santa_ | good luck | 20:43 |
| Eickmeyer | I'll still be reachable via Matrix, so RikMills and sgmoore can reach me. | 20:43 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Have a good move! | 20:43 |
| RikMills | taking of BNCs I use the KDE one which I am not sure how long they will keep going. anyone else using that be aware that KDE are quite keen on trashing it | 20:45 |
| santa_ | ok, so... | 21:10 |
| santa_ | the test rebuilds are almost done | 21:11 |
| santa_ | I have documented a couple of things more at the bottom of https://pad.riseup.net/p/uUGH3GQsHLZz1--651Kk-keep | 21:11 |
| santa_ | if you don't have any more comments or questions I gues we could say 'meeting adjourned' | 21:12 |
| IrcsomeBot | <sgmoore> Yes, list, I will fix | 23:42 |
| IrcsomeBot | <myfenris> best wishes (re @IrcsomeBot: <RikMills> Eickmeyer: ack. best wishes for the move) | 23:44 |
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