[00:57] werp [01:32] So Thunderbird is capable of newsgroups. [01:39] My Ubuntu Server 23.10 experienced a power outage and is now booting into maintenance mode. I tried reinstalling grub but it didn't help [01:41] what does the error say [01:42] I'm in emergency mode [01:44] My root partition /dev/sda2 is mounted at / [01:44] Automatically [01:44] read only? [01:45] No rw [01:46] type "journalctl -xb" to view system logs, "systemctl reboot", "systemctl default" or "exit" t [01:46] Yea it says all that [01:46] or fsck -y /dev/sda2 [01:47] Will that work if it's mounted with -y? [01:47] think so , yes [01:47] https://www.makeuseof.com/boot-ubuntu-rescue-mode/ [01:48] Oh so i found the problem [01:49] In fstab it mounts my usb drive. I commented it out & rebooted and now it boots up so at least now I know what was causing it. Thanks for the help === JoeBk_ is now known as JoeBk === Szadek5 is now known as Szadek [05:23] just installed 24.04 after distrohopping forever [05:24] and here I shall stay [05:24] Good :-) [05:25] !yay [05:25] Glad you made it! :-) === blackness is now known as Randers === JoeBk is now known as Guest1082 === Guest1082 is now known as JoeBk === JoeBk_ is now known as JoeBk === lenix is now known as lenix-de === JoeBk_ is now known as JoeBk [08:25] Friendly Greetings! the Gnome of Ubuntu 24.04 uses Wayland, is that true? [08:25] true, standard, but the x11 session is also available, change at login [08:26] in case i prefer to stay with Wayland, would there be a tool that allows me to manipulate window positions, sizes etc.? [08:27] i miss xdotool and wmctrl :( [10:00] hi, I have ubuntu 23.20 install and would like to upgrade to 24.04, for some reason the software updater won't realise there is an update available [10:00] I have "Notify me of a new Ubuntu version" --> For any version [10:01] updates are paused due to open bugs. to get 24.04 you currently need to do a clean install [10:01] I have all updates instaled [10:01] ah ok, so there is a bug [10:01] np I will wait then [10:14] what is the official channel to follow when ubuntu 24.04 is safe to upgrade? [10:14] you will notice in your update dialog === nykma4772519 is now known as nykma477251 [10:33] how one can make a partition image with gzip while showing status? [10:33] I can do dd if=/local/path | gzip > /remote/path/in/local/network/backup.img.gz but this will give me no indication about status I suppose [10:34] maybe with dd ... status=progress ? [10:34] or use 'pv' between the pipes [10:35] you can actually use both at the same time [10:35] if status=progress outputs to stderr i guess it should show [10:36] dd if=/local/path status=progress | pv | gzip >/remote/path/in/local/network/backup.img.gz [10:37] 104857600 bytes (105 MB, 100 MiB) copied, 2 s, 52.4 MB/s [10:37] 200MB 0:00:04 [ 50MB/s] [========================> ] 66% ETA 0:02 [10:37] would be an example output of that [10:38] nice [10:39] actually without pv is better, it shows with just status=progress and doesnt keep adding lines [10:39] dd status=progress | gzip ftw imho [10:40] Would be fun to get a status of the data written by gzip [10:41] So you could maybe use pv for that and then write that to the compressed file [10:42] Or you just check the file in another terminal. [10:45] hi, can I expect gcc 14 to be backported to noble? I see it's in oracular [10:45] noble only has a nightly build from april [10:51] !info gcc-14 noble [10:51] gcc-14 (14-20240412-0ubuntu1, noble): GNU C compiler. In component universe, is optional. Built by gcc-14. Size 471 kB / 542 kB [10:51] !info gcc-14 oracular [10:51] gcc-14 (14-20240412-0ubuntu1, oracular): GNU C compiler. In component universe, is optional. Built by gcc-14. Size 471 kB / 542 kB [10:51] same ... [11:21] when vscode wants to update itself, will it update via snap or will it install a second version (apart from the snap version)? unfortunately snap only gives me version `0cd8d6ac` so i dont know how to compare this to my actual vscode [11:39] a snap cant update itself [11:40] so any update from within the snapped app will just fail [12:08] Hi all === esv_ is now known as esv [12:48] for those who'd like to follow along, I posted a bug report for my QCA6390 issue over on launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta-oem-6.5/+bug/2065938 [12:48] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2065938 in linux-signed-oem-6.5 (Ubuntu) "QCA6390 won't work with any kernel above 5.15 in 22.04" [Undecided, New] [12:57] vortexx: Do you know how to edit grub? [13:01] jeremy31: yes, why? [13:01] I've been using grub since grub replaced lilo [13:04] vortexx: add memmap=12M\$20M [13:04] vortexx: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1960273#p1960273 [13:10] jeremy31: that was an old bug, it shouldn't be necessary anymore [13:11] I'm going to try Fedora Workstation 40 quickly to see if that fails too (it probably will) [13:12] I can add it just to see though [13:27] vortexx: can you apport-collect 2065938 , from the default kernel you boot 22.04 please? [13:31] lotuspsychje: apport-collect 2065938 [13:31] Package linux-signed-oem-6.5 not installed and no hook available, ignoring [13:31] !info linux-image-generic jammy [13:31] linux-image-generic (5.15.0.107.107, jammy): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Built by linux-meta. Size 3 kB / 21 kB. (Only available for amd64, armhf, arm64, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x.) [13:32] jeremy31: adding memmap=12M\$20M prevents my system from booting [13:32] this would be stock kernel^ [13:32] additional news: I tried Fedora Workstation 40 which uses 6.8 and that works [13:33] !info linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 [13:33] Package linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 does not exist in noble [13:33] !info linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 jammy [13:33] linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 (6.5.0.35.35~22.04.1, jammy): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Built by linux-meta-hwe-6.5. Size 3 kB / 22 kB. (Only available for amd64, armhf, arm64, ppc64el, s390x.) [13:33] ubuntu should got 60 text editors by now: xed, xedit, gedit, kwrite, kate, librewriter,

, leat3ad,   -- we need more dumb text editors ayn/in the downloadable/installable rekosz/rekoze/rekoz
[13:33] <lotuspsychje> wich one of these 2 did you install jammy by default vortexx ?
[13:38] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: ok since your bug says chipset works on 5.15 , boot back into 6.5.0.35 and apport-collect 2065938 from there
[13:38] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: linux-image-generic is the one that has been working for me for several years, currently on 5.15.0.107. I've tried the linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 one (6.5.0.35) and it fails in the same way the 6.8.0.31 does (future linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 )
[13:39] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: I've got a problem that I can't assign the right package on launchpad, it won't let me use linux-image-generic
[13:39] <vortexx> so apport-collect fails
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: oh, holdon ill change for you
[13:39] <vortexx> thanks
[13:40] <lotuspsychje> ok try again vortexx
[13:40] <vortexx> I'll connect via wired ethernet on 6.5 so apport-collect will work
[13:40] <lotuspsychje> okies
[13:42] <poe> hello
[13:43] <poe> Hello guys
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: apport-collect seem to have picked 5.15 there
[13:45] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: but no sweat, you can add a comment with 6.5 dmesg if you want
[13:47] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: yeah I ran it on 5.15 to provide a working config. Let me reboot into 6.5 and 6.8 and I'll provide dmesg for both
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: the dev will be happy, as he asks an older working kernel (5.15 you got now) and your non-working 6.8
[14:01] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: so no need to run apport-collect in 6.5? I'm logged into it now
[14:01] <vortexx> I've collected the dmesg
[14:01] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: no its ok, just add a new comment with full dmesg of 6.5 and 6.8
[14:02] <lotuspsychje> otherwise the collect logs will spam the bug
[14:02] <vortexx> yeah as I thought. Will do
[14:18] <vortexx> ok all dmesgs posted
[14:18] <lotuspsychje> tnx vortexx looking all good now
[14:23] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: thanks for your assistance, much appreciated
[14:24] <vortexx> I really should have reported this when I noticed it on 22.10 back in the day. Oh well.
[14:27] <vortexx> btw rebooting takes about 2:30 mins because I have to enter the password to decrypt /boot, then the password to decrypt /, then login to GDM then enter the password for the gnome-keyring
[14:27] <vortexx> thus delays in posting in here when rebooting a lot
[14:32] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: no problem, the devs will surely take over from here now
[14:32] <vortexx> hopefully so
[14:32] <vortexx> I'm ready to test any kernel if it'll help, so long as there's ZFS support included
[14:41] <lotuspsychje> vortexx: feel free to test !mainline kernels yourself too at, https://kernel.ubuntu.com/mainline/
[14:43] <lotuspsychje> that can help the devs too knowing a higher working kernel version
[14:43] <aro> I struggle with a non booking kernel in ubuntu. I want to go back to the last booted kernel, but I struggle how. Grub is not even listing my last kernel, but dpkg shows it's still installed.
[15:22] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: problem with that is I use ZFS and mainline kernels don't have that by default. I guess I'd have to patch and compile a custom kernel
[15:23] <vortexx> aro: you need to boot a live image, mount all the paritions into /mnt, then chroot into it. Check your /boot does have the old kernel, then run update-grub, check /boot/grub/grub.cfg has your old kernel listed, then exit chroot and reboot
[15:24] <vortexx> s/paritions/partitions
[15:26] <vortexx> lotuspsychje: I did try Fedora Workstation 40's 6.8 kernel, and it works. So it clearly is a ubuntu specific issue
[15:27] <aro> OK, now I run into network issues.
[15:27] <aro> The old kernel network is not coming up. It's hard to debug for me.
[15:29] <vortexx> is the interface listed in ifconfig -a? Does it have an IP address ? Is this wifi or wired ethernet? Are you using DHCP (automatic) IP configuration or static (manual) ?
[15:29] <vortexx> brb
[15:29] <tomreyn> "ip link" rather than "ifconfig -a" nowadays
[15:30] <aro> https://bpa.st/PVFQ
[15:30] <aro> I do not know, I didn't setup this machine.
[15:30] <aro> It certainly does not have any wifi
[15:31] <aro> So everything is wired
[15:34] <tomreyn> aro: which ubuntu version is it? does it seem to be a server (CLI only) or desktop (GUI) setup?
[15:34] <aro> cli
[15:34] <tomreyn> lsb_release -ds says?
[15:35] <aro> Ubuntu 22.04.4 LTS
[15:35] <aro> Apparently I have a network connection now, but the dns is broken.
[15:35] <aro> ...
[15:35] <tomreyn> ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
[15:36] <tomreyn> + cat
[15:36] <aro> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Mar 21 15:24 /etc/resolv.conf -> ../run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf
[15:36] <aro> it's empty
[15:38] <tomreyn> for now you can just write something into the target or replace the symlink by a static file
[15:38] <ioria> aro, is systemd-resolved running ? systemctl status systemd-resolved
[15:38] <tomreyn> make sure you remove a static file once networking is sorted, and before you reboot, though
[15:39] <vortexx> tomreyn: indeed, I keep forgetting about iproute2. ip a s is what I prefer when using it, bit more explicit
[15:40] <tomreyn> vortexx: i guess you want both a + l, yes
=== coz_ is now known as B-coz_
[17:12] <aro> I can't get systemd-networkd to start.
[17:13] <aro> The status is empty and I struggle to understand why.
[17:13] <leftyfb> aro: which release of ubuntu?
[17:14] <aro> Ubuntu 22.04.4 LTS
[17:14] <leftyfb> aro: desktop or server?
[17:14] <aro> server
[17:16] <leftyfb> aro: what changes have you made? systemd-networkd will start on it's own just fine on a default install of ubuntu server 22.04. You're supposed to use netplan for network configurations
[17:17] <aro> I have rebooted the system.
[17:17] <aro> I never touched the network config before today.
[17:18] <aro> And today I tried to start systemd-networkd.
[17:18] <leftyfb> why?
[17:19] <aro> Because the system had no network.
[17:19] <aro> After the reboot.
[17:19] <leftyfb> aro: what made you think it had anything to do with systemd-networkd?
[17:20] <aro> That was the first point of goto for me. Where else should I have looked first?
[17:20] <aro> I am just trying to debug this.
[17:21] <aro> The netplan yaml looks reasonable to me.
[17:21] <leftyfb> aro: why was that the "first point of goto" for you? Default installs of ubuntu don't have any reason to mess with networkd at all. netplan is the config tool to make changes.
[17:21] <aro> How am I supposed to know that?
[17:21] <leftyfb> aro: how did you know to look at systemd-networkd?
[17:22] <aro> I am used to debug with systemd, so I greped for according systemd services.
[17:23] <aro> I tried to look at it, I didn't change anything.
[17:23] <aro> (re)start shouldn't change anything, no?
[17:23] <aro> The question remains: How do I debug this?
[17:24] <vortexx> leftyfb: scroll up, aro posted a pastebin. There's an error here: May 17 16:51:50 bts1 dbus-daemon[744]: [system] Activation via systemd failed for unit 'dbus-org.freedesktop.network1.service': Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.network1.service not found.
[17:25] <vortexx> aro: better check that dbus is installed and running I guess
[17:26] <vortexx> (network might be dependent on this service)
[17:26] <leftyfb> aro: please run thew following and share the resulting url here:  ( cat /etc/os-release ; for iface in `ls /sys/class/net` ; do echo $iface $(cat /sys/class/net/$iface/operstate); done ; cat /etc/netplan/* ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[17:29] <tomreyn> from what i understood earlier, aro took over management of this system from someone else, lacks information on how it was installed / configured.
[17:29] <leftyfb> lovely
[17:30] <leftyfb> I'll be starting from the basics assuming it's setup with netplan as it should be and debug from there
[17:33] <aro> The netplan yaml looks fine, so that makes sense.
[17:33] <leftyfb> aro: please post the URL here from the command I gave you
[17:35] <aro> I am working on it. Getting responses is sadly a bit time consuming.
[17:35] <leftyfb> huh? You can't copy and paste the command to your machine?
[17:35] <leftyfb> oh wait, there's no network. bah
[17:35] <aro> :D
[17:36] <leftyfb> cat /etc/os-release ; for iface in `ls /sys/class/net` ; do echo $iface $(cat /sys/class/net/$iface/operstate); done ; cat /etc/netplan/*
[17:36] <leftyfb> can you run that and take a screenshot?
[17:36] <aro> The machine is not sitting in front of me. But I will paste that.
[17:37] <tomreyn> didn't you have the network working other than dns lookups earlier? termbin.com has ip address 162.19.243.32
[17:37] <leftyfb> how are you running anything on it if it's not sitting in front of you and it doesn't have network?
[17:40] <vortexx> leftyfb: if you scroll back you'll see what happened earlier, which was that a new kernel wasn't booting and the old kernel wasn't listed in grub. I gave aro instructions on how to fix this, now the old kernel is booted and network is half working, just no DNS. Or at least that was the situation earlier
[17:40] <vortexx> leftyfb: KVM probably?
[17:41] <leftyfb> I prefer not to make assumptions and there seems to be details being left out that could verywell affect the support being provided
[17:45] <aro> I sadly have kvm. I have a second access point to a storage server (don't ask me how that works). So I can mount the filesystem if the original system is down. But I have to unmount when I bring up the main system.
[17:47] <aro> https://bpa.st/TO2Q
[17:47] <leftyfb> uh
[17:48] <aro> systemctl status dbus returns empty
[17:48] <leftyfb> what do you mean empty?
[17:49] <aro> STDOUT and STDERR are empty.
[17:49] <leftyfb> try it with sudo
[17:50] <tomreyn> and then run   echo $?
[17:52] <leftyfb> this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why is there a route to everywhere to a .65 address(is that a router you're aware of?) and then a default route to ipv6 link-local address?
[17:52] <leftyfb> doing some googling, apparently it's a thing, but one that I don't fully understand and can't really debug
[17:53] <leftyfb> so many dockers running
[17:55] <aro> Yeah, I made a mistake
[17:55] <aro> I'm sorry
[17:55] <aro> I need to rerun this again.
[17:55] <leftyfb> yeah, taking over this very non-standard, undocumented system :)
[17:56] <vortexx> aro: dbus-daemon not dbus, my bad.
[17:56] <leftyfb> dbus should also work
[17:57] <leftyfb> the dbus service should be running on a default install of ubuntu-server
[17:57] <aro> Should it?
[17:59] <leftyfb> yes
[17:59] <aro> I'll try
[17:59] <leftyfb> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8f2XjwCWHj/
[17:59] <aro> The problem is, I need to reboot two times every time I try something.
[17:59] <leftyfb> there's nothing to try, if it's not running, something is wrong/non-standard with your system
[17:59] <leftyfb> why?
[17:59] <leftyfb> you shouldn't need to reboot for anything
[18:00] <aro> The way I currently do it is to shutdown the system, mount the fs elsewhere, insert a custom script to execute and examine the logs afterwards.
[18:00] <aro> I can't have the fs mounted two times.
[18:01]  * leftyfb taps out
[18:01] <aro> And I can't unmount the root for obvious reasons.
[18:09] <aro> https://bpa.st/ZTNA
[18:10] <aro> What does power even mean?
[18:14] <aro> https://bpa.st/MNIA
[18:45] <xvx> Is it possible to set a time threshold for window tiling/snapping? (e.g. have to hold window at edge for >0.5 secs)
[18:48] <xvx> Or can I stop horizontal row tiling?  (I never want there to be 2 short horizontal windows 🤮)
[18:49] <vortexx> aro: group power would be for thermald, so it can shut down the system in case of overheat
[18:50] <vortexx> aro: so you can't just ssh and restart services? is this some read only / system?
[18:51] <aro> I don't have network.
[18:51] <aro> That is the thing I am trying to debug here.
[18:54] <aro> I still have no idea, why this system has no network. I am absolutly clueless what might be wrong.
[18:54] <aro> To me it looks like it doesn't even try to bring up the eth0, but I have no clue why not.
[18:55] <ph88> sometimes orange boxes appear on my desktop to move windows into them, i don't know what triggers these boxes to come up. How can i disable this ?
[18:56] <aro> I have no idea how netplan works, so I think I have to give up.
[18:56] <vortexx> aro: systemd renames eth0 to something else, in your case it's eno1
[18:57] <vortexx> try netstat -rn | grep 0.0.0.0 to check the default route is set and try pinging that?
[18:59] <vortexx> it should end with .65 according to your netplan file
[19:01] <aro> it does, let me try
[19:01] <vortexx> after that check if dns resolution is working
[19:01] <vortexx> dig www.google.com
[19:02] <leftyfb> check if routing is working first
[19:04] <vortexx> yeah, try tracerouting IPs outside the lan once you've checked you can ping the router
[19:04] <vortexx> well, the uplink
[19:04] <slow_jammin> Is Ubuntu offtopic a channel?
=== fernando_ is now known as Lawbsy
[19:09] <slow_jammin> Are you using VLC for music playback?
[19:11] <slow_jammin> Try using the Playback > speed > slower (fine) with your next music listening session
[19:16] <aro> Pinging the route gives me 100 % package loss.
[19:16] <eldowan> I have an installation on an embeded 20.04 that I cannot update to a new release, but am having issues with interface names changing if the device is rebooted with a NIC plugged in. The interface names are correct if booted with no NICs plugged in. Is there a way that I can enforce consistent naming via networkmanager or similar?
[19:16] <vortexx> aro: maybe your server's firewall is having an issue then
[19:23] <aro> Do you mean ufw by that?
[19:23] <aro> ufw ony affects incoming traffic, no?
[19:28] <aro> ty, the firewall was the issue. I need to look at this more in depth.
[19:28] <vortexx> aro: yes, but your firewall might be misconfigured and blocking traffic because of the wrong interface being in use.
[19:28] <vortexx> or something similar
[19:29] <aro> The server has network now. :party:
[19:29] <vortexx> congrats!
[19:29] <aro> ty
[19:29] <vortexx> you're welcome
[19:29] <aro> Props to you. I would not have suspected the firewall at this stage.
[19:29] <vortexx> now you have to work out why the more recent kernel doesn't work
[19:31] <aro> I think I want to fix the firewall first.
[19:32] <vortexx> yeah that'd be the top priority
[19:48] <aro> thanks again
[19:50] <vortexx> yw
[19:58] <JoeLlama> lubuntu or xubuntu?
[20:01] <leftyfb> JoeLlama: do you have a support question?
[20:04] <cobraeriko> Just got a new ThinkPad T490, installed Ubuntu 20.04, everything was working fine. But after I unplugged the HDMI and ac cord and plugged it back in again, I got an error message saying system experienced a probelm from which it could not recover. The screen froze and I had to reboot. Now every time I boot up my computer the OS fails to
[20:04] <cobraeriko> load--before the GUI loads I get this error on the boot screen (https://paste.pics/8ab481238c78864cfeda0d79a2e221bb). And I cannot do anything from this screen. I cannot get into TTY when booting now either. I did make a disaster disck recovery USB stick. But before I use that is there anything I should try?
[20:04] <cobraeriko> MORE CONTEXT: This is the second time this happened to me after unplugging the HDMI and ac cord. I reinstalled Ubuntu the first time. And after tha I updated all the firmware and modules/drivers. In so doing I found that one module/driver seemed to be unsupported --- the Prometheus Fingerprint Reader. I wonder if this is the culprit.
[20:12] <vortexx> cobraeriko: that looks like a BIOS bug at first sight. Maybe try 22.04 or 24.04 to see if you get the same result? 20.04 is kinda old but still supported
[20:15] <vortexx> fingerprint reader crashing the system doesn't sound super likely but possible
[20:18] <vortexx> arch wiki says the fingerprint reader is supported: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T490#Fingerprint_Sensor
[20:35] <JoeLlama> Nemo - The Code | Switzerland 🇨🇭 | Official Music Video: https://youtu.be/kiGDvM14Kwg
[20:36] <leftyfb> JoeLlama: please don't
[20:36] <JoeLlama> what's wrong leftleg_ :(
[20:36] <JoeLlama> you don't like the eurowinner?
[20:36] <leftyfb> JoeLlama: this is a support channel
[20:36] <cobraeriko> vortexx Good hypothesis. I just searched the "Ubuntu certified hardware" page on Ubuntu.com for ThinkPad T490 and found that it's not listed for 22.04 or 20.04, but is for 18.04
[20:36] <JoeLlama> oh!!!
[20:36] <JoeLlama> sorry leftleg_!!
[20:36] <leftyfb> JoeLlama: feel free to go to #ubuntu-offtopic for idle chat
[20:37] <JoeLlama> I opened this window in over another one oops my appologies
[20:37] <leftleg_> :)
[20:37]  * JoeLlama is embarrased
[20:37] <JoeLlama> oh yes I came here asking:
[20:37] <JoeLlama> lubuntu or xubuntu?
[20:37] <JoeLlama> anyone wish to comment please?
[20:38] <cbreak> I like kubuntu personally
[20:38] <JoeLlama> I have about 25 laptops from around 2007 and ddon
[20:38] <cbreak> even though I started with stock-ubuntu, switching was easy
[20:38] <JoeLlama> don't like lubuntu power manager
[20:38] <cbreak> you can basicaclly try it out without being stuck with one
[20:38] <JoeLlama> hrm cbreak is kubuntu streamlined and low memory usage?
[20:39] <cbreak> streamlined? yes. Low memory? I don't think so
[20:39] <cbreak> although it does use less memory than many of my other things :D
[20:39] <JoeLlama> I have 6 GB of ram on these maximum
[20:39] <cbreak> kubuntu offers a very large, very customizable desktop, it's definitely not made to be minimal, but powewrful and easy to use
[20:40] <cbreak> that's almost less than a mobile phone :( it might work... you can try it. But as I said, switching is easy
[20:40] <JoeLlama> also I'm running a dell PowerEdge R720 and I want to use a very simple version of ubuntu
[20:40] <oerheks> !flavors
[20:40] <ubottu> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
[20:40] <vortexx> cobraeriko: 18.04 goes out of support next month, but you can try
[20:40] <cbreak> if you have enough storage space you can install multiple desktops and chose at login which to use
[20:40] <oerheks> use the one you like best?
[20:41] <JoeLlama> yes cbreak I'm looking for minimal configuration as far as processor usage and memory
[20:41] <cbreak> I did use i3 in the past, it was super minimal.
[20:41] <cbreak> but no normal user will like it.
[20:41] <JoeLlama> hrm ok thanks cbreak
[20:41] <JoeLlama> so lubuntu or xubuntu? :)
[20:42] <JoeLlama> pretty sure I'm going to run xubuntu for a bit anyways
[20:42] <cbreak> I threw a coin for you. It was heads.
[20:42] <JoeLlama> lubuntu power manager crashes on battery
[20:42] <oerheks> I'd like ubuntu to fill the ISO to the brim, 7.9gb
[20:42] <JoeLlama> heh ok cbreak
[20:42] <cbreak> oerheks: seems they're going the other direction
[20:43] <JoeLlama> I need to run RAID 1 under ZFS also
[20:43] <JoeLlama> oh and RAID 6
[20:43] <JoeLlama> the R720 has 80 GB ram and 64 TB hard drive space
[20:44] <JoeLlama> and I wanna run xubuntu I think on that
[20:44] <JoeLlama> not sure how that is going to work out...
[20:44] <oerheks> let us know
[20:44] <JoeLlama> nothing personal but I'm old skool my first PC was an IBM PC 16 KB motherboard around 1981 or so
[20:44] <cbreak> JoeLlama: I did run zfs with 6 GB of RAM years ago, it was very painful
[20:44] <JoeLlama> ubuntu the GUI makes my head spin I like simple guis
[20:45] <cbreak> 80GB should be plenty though, especially if you add an NVME ssd for L2ARC
[20:45] <JoeLlama> oh sorry cbreak
[20:45] <JoeLlama> yup
[20:45] <JoeLlama> well the RAID 1 won't be zfs I suspect
[20:45] <JoeLlama> that is on the 6 GB system
[20:45] <JoeLlama> just need to mirror drives
[20:46] <cbreak> I have a bunch of NASes at work with ZFS, around 250TB, running raidz2
[20:46] <cbreak> I think they have around 96GB ram too, works fine
[20:46] <Bashing-om> JoeLlama: Simple/fast: https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-minimal/current/ :D
[20:46] <JoeLlama> it's amazing what a processor upgrade and an SSD did for a 2007 system
[20:46] <JoeLlama> wow neat cbreak
[20:47] <JoeLlama> yeah gunna run raidz 6
[20:47] <JoeLlama> I'm kinda using it also as a backup although I know that is not the right way to back up files
[20:47] <cbreak> (I've configured them for bulk storage / large data streaming, not random access, so record size is 1MB on most datasets, whcih helps a lot with RAM)
[20:47] <JoeLlama> I have an LTO-7 tape backup but they are expensive and this one is slightly borked :(
[20:47] <cbreak> oh, antique
[20:48] <JoeLlama> wow large size
[20:48] <cbreak> we're using LTO-8, when we can find the motivation :(
[20:48] <JoeLlama> hee hee yes antique but still not cheap
[20:48] <JoeLlama> yeah LTO drives.. I learned you really don't do major repairs on them...  you get a new one and use it until it drops
[20:49] <JoeLlama> hopefully a good internal clkeaning can keep it going longer but...
[20:49] <cbreak> I'm always surprised they work at all
[20:49] <JoeLlama> don't buy used :(
[20:49] <JoeLlama> yes! heh
[20:49] <JoeLlama> voicecoil head inside
[20:49] <cbreak> the manual says the cleaning take damages the read heads, so should be avoided
[20:50] <JoeLlama> yeah well I clean with 1,1,1- trichloroethane
[20:50] <JoeLlama> but it's really hard to get into those tight spaces
[20:50] <cbreak> we have a drive with two bays, so we can write to two tapes at once. But back when we got it, we'd always get write errors at random ... so I wrote a program to retry on every error... super hacky
[20:50] <JoeLlama> but yeah the cleaning tape I'm sure is abrassive
[20:50] <cbreak> nowadays the tapes seem better
[20:51] <JoeLlama> yeah hacky for sure
[20:51] <cbreak> apparently there was a patent dispute a few years back, so no tapes were manufactured, and the older ones seem to be crappy
[20:51] <JoeLlama> yes the technology on LTO drives has improved
[20:51] <JoeLlama> just way too expensive
[20:51] <cbreak> LTO-8 tapes are maybe 120CHFr per piece, for 12 TB of storage
[20:51] <cbreak> a bit cheaper than hard disks, and more durable
[20:51] <JoeLlama> ah
[20:52] <cbreak> but a lot more annoying :(
[20:52] <JoeLlama> well... for now gunna rely on RAIDz 6 to keep data safe
[20:52] <cbreak> Make sure to set up a job to periodically scrub the pool :)
[20:52] <JoeLlama> and might get another R720... I literally pay like 100 USD to despose of their ewaste :(
[20:53] <JoeLlama> hrm scrub the what now?
[20:53] <cbreak> that's why I only use ZFS, and not other raid solutions: Scrubbing can actually fix problems reliably
[20:53] <JoeLlama> hrm,,.,. ok
[20:53] <cbreak> zfs scrub will read all your data, compare checksums, and recover from redundancy if there's a problem
[20:53] <JoeLlama> well I hear good things about zfs
[20:53] <cbreak> recommendation is to do it every 1 or 2 months
[20:54] <cbreak> I really like zfs :)
[20:54] <JoeLlama> hrm... I will have to read up
[20:54] <JoeLlama> I know little about this stuff
[20:54] <cbreak> it's one of the main reasons I stay with ubuntu
[20:54] <eldowan> I've ran a raidz2 volume for years, and I've never had any issues, second regular scrubbing
[20:54] <JoeLlama> but I have 8 8TB sitting here
[20:54] <JoeLlama> got them for less than 80 USD each zero hours
[20:54] <cbreak> nice :)
[20:54] <JoeLlama> which I wonder what that means I think they turn smart off or something
[20:55] <JoeLlama> they tell me they are new but,,..
[20:55] <JoeLlama> I dunno
[20:55] <cbreak> well, they could be lying. true.
[20:55] <cbreak> you can always just read the raw data and look if something's on the empty drives
[20:55] <JoeLlama> right true
[20:55] <cbreak> unless they took the time to zero 8TB of disk surface
[20:55] <JoeLlama> hrm...
[20:55] <JoeLlama> yeah probably that would do that
[20:56] <JoeLlama> so I take a chance can't afford new
[20:56] <JoeLlama> cheap is good sometimes
[20:56] <cbreak> if you have redundancy
[20:56] <JoeLlama> yup
[20:56] <JoeLlama> RAIDz 6
[20:56] <cbreak> the problem with redundancy is that it only helps with fast recovery
[20:56] <eldowan> I thought the drive firmware ran regardless of if smartd or similar was running, if you have a host turn smart off it'd prevent the drives from doing it's thing?
[20:56] <cbreak> if you have 6 disks, and lose two of them because both were scams, then you have zero redundancy until the resilver finishes
[20:56] <JoeLlama> yeah could be screwed if theere is a crash and I cannot hot swap
[20:57] <JoeLlama> yup
[20:57] <cbreak> eldowan: the firmwawre can be reflashed
[20:57] <eldowan> aaah good point
[20:57] <JoeLlama> well I plan on having other backups using RAID 1 etc
[20:57] <JoeLlama> but it's not good to keep mechanical hard drives on a shelf...
[20:57] <JoeLlama> they go bad just sitting there...
[20:57] <JoeLlama> they like being used
[20:57] <cbreak> JoeLlama: zfs mirrors are better than raid1 usually :)
[20:58] <JoeLlama> in fact I was told that you should install mechanical hard drives, turn them on, and never turn them off
[20:58] <eldowan> plus snapshots are even better
[20:58] <JoeLlama> yup I heard that about zfs
[20:58] <eldowan> JoeLlama: THat's teh advice from when I was learning zfs from truenas. keep the idle turned off so they never spin down
[20:58] <JoeLlama> I'm gunna keep your nick handy cbreak and pick your brain later if you don't mind :)
[20:59] <JoeLlama> I'm sure I will need a little help with this stuff
[20:59] <cbreak> JoeLlama: not sure about that, running is not harmless for a drive. Constant spinning up and down is harmful, sitting on a shelf should be fine, if it was shut down properly
[20:59] <JoeLlama> yup
[20:59] <cbreak> I kind of expect the manufacturers solved the sticky head problems from the early days
[20:59] <JoeLlama> running them is better than letting them sit on a shelf though
[20:59] <cobraeriko> vortexx I assume I can try out 18.04 with a live USB, right?
[20:59] <JoeLlama> eldowan :)
[21:00] <cbreak> sure, there's also #zfs, #zfsonlinux and others
[21:00] <vortexx> cobraeriko: of course
[21:00] <JoeLlama> and that's another question...  if I am running a machine "air-gapped" not on the internet, what is the best version ubuntu to use?
[21:01] <JoeLlama> I don't need security updates for internet stuffs
[21:01] <cbreak> the newest LTS? :)
[21:01] <JoeLlama> oh ok
[21:01] <eldowan> Whatever meets your needs best. I'd go LTS, 24.04 is out and i'm testing it for our production rollouts
[21:01] <JoeLlama> so like also... what is the nain differences between xubuntu and lubuntu?
[21:01] <cbreak> because you will probably want to update eventually, and LTS have updates for years, while non-lts only have it for 9 months
[21:02] <JoeLlama> I have been running lubuntu for a long time but that power manager crashing when on battery is a deal breaker
[21:02] <eldowan> JoeLlama: I think it's the DE/WM basically, lxde vsxcf or w/e it is
[21:02] <JoeLlama> yeah ok cbreak and eldowan
[21:02] <cbreak> JoeLlama: apt install xubuntu-desktop vs apt install lubuntu-desktop
[21:02] <JoeLlama> hrm ok
[21:02] <oerheks> raid 6 on battery?
[21:02] <JoeLlama> no no
[21:02] <oerheks> 🤣
[21:02] <cbreak> oerheks: it works!
[21:03] <JoeLlama> raid 6 on dell R720
[21:03] <cbreak> my desktop can run for half an hour on its UPS :)
[21:03] <JoeLlama> raidz 1 on Dell Inspiron 1720
[21:03] <JoeLlama> unfortunately most of those has the old nvidia graphics
[21:04] <JoeLlama> well almost all of them like 23 laptops
[21:04] <JoeLlama> cbreak I hope xubuntu power manager is not the same as lubuntu's :(
[21:04] <JoeLlama> I'll just have to try it
[21:05] <JoeLlama> in fact I got it right here on flash
[21:05] <eldowan> JoeLlama: check out the apt install of the 2 envs like cbreak said, you should see any differences int he package list
[21:06] <JoeLlama> hrm ok eldowan
[21:06] <JoeLlama> is there a way to replace the power manager?
[21:06] <JoeLlama> it just isn't compatible with those old PCs
[21:06] <JoeLlama> I hate tossing computers in the trash 8(
[21:06] <eldowan> No idea about that
[21:06] <JoeLlama> yeah
[21:07] <JoeLlama> no one seems to be able to tell me
[21:07] <JoeLlama> o k I go eat thanks for the conversation :)
[21:07] <JoeLlama> a lot to consider
[21:07] <vortexx> or move to another platform... a BSD perhaps JoeLlama ?
[21:07] <gordonjcp> JoeLlama: tell you what?
[21:07] <JoeLlama> yeah I would love to go freeBSD but... seems like a big learning curve
[21:08] <eldowan> freebsd is a learning curve, but it's not horrible. a lot of the tools are the same
[21:08] <JoeLlama> yeah so I am told
[21:08] <vortexx> certainly all the zfs commands are identical
[21:08] <vortexx> and if you want more gnu tools you just install them
[21:08] <eldowan> and most of the daily tools for most things
[21:09] <eldowan> When I was learning freebsd, I had great success with truenas -- now truenas core -- for the hand holding installation.
[21:09] <eldowan> and it gives you a nice web interface you can use to setup zfs pools, etc
[21:10] <cbreak> not sure what you mean with power manager
[21:10] <cbreak> the frontend software might be different, but the backend is probably the same, inside the kernel
[21:10] <cbreak> (among other places)
[21:10] <JoeLlama> hrm ok
[21:10] <Shido> Hi
[21:10] <gordonjcp> I'm using TrueNAS, it's okay
[21:10] <Shido> Hi guys
[21:11] <JoeLlama> cbreak power manager... when the pc goes on batteries it crashes
[21:11] <JoeLlama> and defaults to be things
[21:11] <JoeLlama> like slowing down the system
[21:11] <JoeLlama> anyone know how to restart the power manager process?
[21:12] <JoeLlama> that would save some grief
[21:12] <eldowan> Truenas has been great to me as far as it goes, but I'm looking to transition away from it. I'm not a fan of the new core or scale
[21:12] <JoeLlama> food screams my name...
[21:12] <JoeLlama> I will bee bak later most likeloy (:
[21:12] <JoeLlama> bye for now
[21:12]  * JoeLlama is idle & afk
[21:16] <gordonjcp> eldowan: at this point I actually need something that'll run Xen at home so my HP Microserver is going to get its OS disk swapped
[21:16] <gordonjcp> eldowan: I expect the ZFS storage disks will "just work" with a different ZFS
[21:17] <eldowan> gordonjcp: I'm in the process of moving over to proxmox actually. I tried out xen / x-o a while back and it wasn't for me. Have a 10 node cluster at work with proxmox/ceph and WOW am I pleased
[21:19] <eldowan> gordonjcp: I think so too. I want to remember something about as long as all the feature flags are presend on the new host system. When I virtualized truenas from an atom to a dual xeon system, I just imported my old pool and everything worked great
[21:20] <cbreak> hmm... didn't the xen people somehow screw up their license recently?
[21:23] <eldowan> I hadn't heard, but I don't follow xen very much
[21:26] <namehere> ok i have a second usbdrive now
[21:26] <gordonjcp> cbreak: Xen is GPL, whether that is screwed up or not is a matter of opinion
[21:29] <namehere> i cant find my second usb stick now to install to?
[21:30] <namehere> i had to delete all partitions on it
[21:33] <cbreak> gordonjcp: I think I was remembering some change in some vmware licensing changes, not xen: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/03/proxmox-adds-easy-import-option-for-vms-after-broadcom-kills-vmwares-esxi/
[21:34] <xangua> Why you need a second usb stick? namehere
[21:35] <eldowan> recently vmware opend workstation and somethign else for personal use, but far as I'm concerned vmware is dead to me
[21:36] <namehere> well someone in here told me i needed another to install to im trying to install to usb to install a driver in linux since the livetry doesnt let me?
[21:36] <oerheks> yes after treat closed security advisories
[21:37] <oerheks> KVM is good enough
[21:37] <namehere> but i guess i cant use the same usb so i have another but
[21:38] <eldowan> i'm currently using virtualbox on my workstation, but looking at kvm/virtmanager instead
[21:39] <namehere> it sees the second usb now but i cant make a partition table in setup
[21:40] <oerheks> don' t partition, ubuntu installs in one partition, including swap file
[21:40] <namehere> i cant go to next?
[21:41] <namehere> i have sdb selected new partition table is an option
[21:41] <namehere> but it doesnt do anything
[21:46] <vortexx> oerheks: depends on setup, if you choose FDE it does 3 partitions these days (/boot, swap and /)
[21:47] <vortexx> namehere: you'll need a partition table on the second usb drive
[21:48] <vortexx> namehere: you can always close the installer, open up gparted and prepare the drive if you want
[22:01] <namehere> vortexx: what does the installer need to proceed?
[22:05] <vortexx> namehere: just needs to know which drive you want to use and it should just do it's job
[22:06] <vortexx> you can try manual partitioning if you want within the installer. Which release are we talking here? I was messing with 24.04 installs today, I wanted to what LUKS was using for FDE
[22:06] <vortexx> and if it was using LUKS for ZFS encryption or if it used ZFS's own. It uses ZFS's own
[22:07] <ravage> it used to place the key in a luks partition
[22:07] <ravage> did that change?
[22:09] <namehere> idk its acting buggy why does new partition table not work i guess ill try and gparted make / and see what it does but im orders of not working over and over
[22:09] <vortexx> ravage: it still does
[22:10] <vortexx> at least for ext4 based installs with FDE
[22:11] <vortexx> just a sec I'm booting the VM now, I want to see if it used LVM or not
[22:12] <vortexx> yeah it still uses LVM + LUKS
[22:13] <vortexx> (I'd be surprised if that changed but I've rarely seen the use for LVM within LUKS, I know it's best practices but still)
[22:14] <vortexx> also I tried my script to do a setup where / is in a LUKS partition with ZFS as the fs, when I rebooted the VM it gave me a security error once grub tried to launch the kernel
[22:14] <vortexx> probably some Secure Boot thing
[22:15] <namehere> two usb keys for s simple full install and its a mystery? v24.?
[22:15] <vortexx> namehere: try a different usb key just to be sure?
[22:15] <vortexx> maybe it's the key
[22:17] <namehere> its brand new vortexx less than a week old
[22:18] <namehere> its the same one ive booted linux too several times already
[22:18] <namehere> to*
[22:20] <namehere> i just partitioned for / but i guess it might want something else? it partitioned without issue
[22:22] <vortexx> try doing it the other way round if need be, stick the installer on the stick you're trying to install and install to the current installer one
[22:23] <namehere> wouldnt the installer fail at partition8ng?
[22:24] <namehere> this isnt hardware yet
[22:24] <vortexx> the installer should just work
[22:24] <namehere> so the key is hardware broke not software?
[22:24] <vortexx> the fact it isn't is symptomatic of something, possibly hw related
[22:24] <namehere> are you trolling?
[22:25] <vortexx> no
[22:25] <namehere> i think youre a liar im blocking you
[22:25] <vortexx> as you wish
[22:29] <namehere> anyone else know whats going on these are teo brand new usbs
[22:29] <namehere> two