/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2024/09/16/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

acibaHello team, when is today's meeting supposed to happen? I do not see it in the Ubuntu Fridge calendar.07:05
bdrung\o16:00
fheimeso/16:00
rbasako/16:00
acibao/16:00
utkarsh2102o/16:01
bdrungWhere is the other half of the DMB?16:11
rbasakI'm wondering what we need to do.16:11
rbasakteward, tsimonq2, bdmurray: do we need to move the meeting time or something?16:12
bdrungShould we start the meeting anyway to get it rolling (and carry it over to email for the other DMB members to vote)?16:13
rbasakAgreed16:13
fheimes+1   :-)16:13
rbasakActually I believe there's a rule that if someone's appearing for a second time then those here can make a final decision16:14
rbasakI think that's the case for fheimes, right?16:15
fheimes@rbasak: yes (even here the 3rd time)16:15
rbasakhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Voting_and_Quorum16:15
rbasakSo let's use that and get to a decision on your application today16:15
acibaMine too, it is my second time16:15
bdrunghttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Voting_and_Quorum does not say anything about changed rules for appearing the second time. Only inactive members will reduce the quorum requirement. "Any DMB member who fails to attend 6 consecutive scheduled DMB meetings (during a period no shorter than 12 weeks) shall be considered inactive"16:20
rbasakOh, OK16:20
rbasak"at the next scheduled meeting, the vote will pass with only a majority of present members"16:21
rbasakThat's not my reading though?16:21
bdrungBut we should hold the meeting anyway. E.g. if we vote +3 in total, we would just need one more member to vote +1 on the ML to get the application approved.16:21
rbasakYes we should proceed anyway16:21
bdrungOh, I missed the part. So we need to vote this time and won't reach quorum. Then we can vote next time with just the majority of present members.16:22
utkarsh2102+116:23
utkarsh2102I think we should really start16:23
bdrungWho wants to chair. The agenda still says @utkarsh210216:24
rbasakutkarsh2102: ?16:26
utkarsh2102can someone do that today?16:26
utkarsh2102i have so many things going on16:26
utkarsh2102I can take the next ones16:26
rbasak#startmeeting Developer Membership Board16:27
meetingologyMeeting started at 16:27:32 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology16:27
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick16:27
rbasak#topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications16:27
rbasak#subtopic PPU application for s390-tools by Frank Heimes at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (will also join meeting on 2024-09-02, just in case there is remaining time, if not it's also fine).16:27
rbasakfheimes: o/16:28
fheimeshi \o16:28
fheimesshall I introduce myself quickly?16:28
rbasakSure, thanks.16:28
fheimesOk, I'm Frank (fheimes) and work at Canonical's Partner Engineering department (formerly known as hardware enablement) and the Partner I take care of is IBM, with their Z platform (s390x) and their IBM Power family (ppc64el)16:29
fheimesPrior to my time at Canonical I worked at IBM's R&D lab in Germany in the area of Linux, esp. Linux on s390x.16:30
fheimesSo, I take care about s390x hw enablement duties, I do quite some work in the s390x space, hence me applying for PPU for s390-tools (package set, consists of two packages).16:30
tewardrbasak: sorry for lateness.  (had an IRL emergency problem)16:30
rbasakOK, questions for fheimes then please.16:31
rbasakWhere can the release schedule be found, and on what date was the freeze for Oracular?16:31
fheimesthat can be found on discourse, there are release schedule pages for all Ubuntu releases, let me quickly find it ...16:32
fheimeshttps://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/oracular-oriole-release-schedule16:32
fheimesFF was on Aug 15th16:33
rbasakfheimes: OK. And if it's after feature freeze, Oracular has 2.34.0-0ubuntu2 and s390x-tools upstream release 2.34.1, what do you need to check to verify that an upload to Oracular will not violate feature freeze?16:33
fheimestoday was beta and hwe freeze16:33
fheimeswell, there are several things (I guess)16:34
fheimesone thing to check is if the new release is a bug fix release only16:34
fheimes(there is a high chance with a x.y.1)16:35
fheimesif it incl. new features, that are urgently needed and it would violate the FF, then a FFe can be thought of16:35
fheimesif a new version incl. new features AND bug fixes and some fixes are needed, then they need to be cherry-picked -- the package can no longer be simply version bumped after the FF16:36
fheimesI hope I covered what you were looking for?16:37
rbasakYes thanks. Typing question next question...16:37
rbasakIf you upload and it gets "stuck in proposed", who is expected to resolve the situation?16:37
fheimeswell, it's primarily me16:38
rbasakOK. And how would you approach that - for example where's the documentation for dealing with this situation?16:39
fheimesI'll should check and shepared the package through the process and should see when it gets stuck, but I will also get a notification in case it's stuck for a certain amount of time16:39
fheimesI would first of all look at launchpad, trying to find out why it's stuck (FTBFS, missing approval)16:40
fheimesbritney is another source, actually the update excuses page, like:16:41
fheimeshttps://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/oracular/update_excuses.html#s390-tools16:41
rbasakDo you get dep8 results for s390-tools in practice?16:42
fheimesthere are many docs where someone can find more info on what to do, for example in case of an SRU: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html16:42
rbasakI see the packaging doesn't ship tests (I think?) but maybe you get rdep dep8 tests triggered?16:42
fheimes@rbasak: the status on that is what I can see here: https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/oracular/update_excuses.html#s390-tools16:43
rbasakThere's nothing there at the moment though because it isn't pending migration right now16:44
fheimesand I can often find directly the reason there (failt to build, missing approval etc)16:44
fheimesyes, that's correct atm there is nothing there (was just an example in case its stuck)16:44
utkarsh2102question: what if it's not there (update_excuses.html) and the package has still not migrated?16:44
utkarsh2102where will you look?16:45
utkarsh2102or what will you do?16:45
fheimesand failed tests of dependent packages can be identified and if needed, retriggered (in different ways) or tests fixed (if needed)16:45
fheimesthis is a good doc on this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration#How_to_re-run_autopkgtests_with_dependencies_on_other_packages_in_the_proposed_pocket that I sometimes refer to16:46
rbasakThanks. I have no further questions!16:47
rbasakDoes anyone else have any further questions for fheimes?16:47
utkarsh2102my question^16:47
bdrungfheimes, have you considered adding dep8 tests to s390-tools?16:47
fheimesso far I got cases where things fauiled to migrate (https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/) via LP itself, and update excuses16:48
utkarsh2102ok, gotcha16:48
utkarsh2102fine, it's okay16:48
rbasakSorry I thought he was answering it in his subsequent messages16:48
rbasakOK, are we all ready to vote?16:49
fheimesyes, I have considered that - there is a local version that I havebut it's difficult to trigger that automatically, since special hw access is needed, that is no always possible in KVM16:49
utkarsh2102yes, ready to vote16:49
bdrungi am ready to vote as well16:49
rbasak#vote Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed16:50
meetingologyPlease vote on: Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed16:50
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')16:50
rbasak+116:50
meetingology+1 received from rbasak16:50
bdrung+116:50
meetingology+1 received from bdrung16:50
fheimes(for example test on s390x hw cryptography can only be run if the hw got passed throught to a KVM instance, and ensuring that in PS is barely possible ...)16:50
rbasakSorry I was just checking the application page for the exact set of package names, and then started pondering about the -signed PPA business.16:50
fheimesoh ...16:50
rbasakBut I think it's probably irrelevant for initial PPU.16:50
utkarsh2102+1; Frank has a lot of experience with the package and I think I trust him to be an excellent in taking care of the package.16:50
meetingology+1; Frank has a lot of experience with the package and I think I trust him to be an excellent in taking care of the package. received from utkarsh210216:50
bdmurray+116:50
meetingology+1 received from bdmurray16:50
utkarsh2102omg, bdmurray, hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!16:51
rbasakteward: are you available to vote?16:51
tewardyes i am 1 minute16:51
utkarsh2102rbasak: we already have 4 votes16:51
teward+116:51
meetingology+1 received from teward16:51
utkarsh2102ah nice16:51
utkarsh2102perfect!16:51
rbasakYeah but people should have the opportunity to register if they dissent :)16:51
tewardrbasak: voted.  sorry but like 2 minutes ago I get a call from CEO at DAYJOB16:51
tewardand that's one of those "Always Answer" cases16:52
rbasak(and it's nice when they also +1)16:52
rbasak#endvote16:52
meetingologyVoting ended on: Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed16:52
meetingologyVotes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 016:52
meetingologyMotion carried16:52
utkarsh2102fheimes: hey, congratulations! <316:52
rbasakCongratulations fheimes!16:52
pleia2congrats fheimes :)16:52
utkarsh2102rbasak: can you add his acl and I can take care of the announcement?16:52
rbasakAny volunteers for the action items to enact this?16:52
acibacongrats fheimes16:52
rbasakack16:52
utkarsh2102coolio16:52
rbasak#action utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application16:52
meetingologyACTION: utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application16:52
fheimesMany thx ! I'm excited and happy !16:52
rbasak#action rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL16:52
meetingologyACTION: rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL16:52
bdrungcongratulations16:53
utkarsh2102I know we are running out of time but can we look at aciba, too?16:53
rbasakI have a hard stop16:53
bdrungfheimes, I missed to ask one very important question since you stated that you live in the Schwäbische Alb: What is a Muggeseggele?16:53
utkarsh2102teward, bdrung, bdmurray?16:53
tewardi have no objection16:53
bdrung;-)16:53
bdrungno objections16:53
utkarsh2102rbasak: but are you okay with cloud-init PPU?16:53
fheimesoh, hey pleia2 !16:53
rbasakI'm OK if you'd like to continue anyway. If you can please ask the usual questions then I'll check back later and vote if needed.16:53
rbasakOn the matter of cloud-init PPU, I believe Chad already has PPU for cloud-init?16:54
acibaChad and James have16:54
utkarsh2102i think he does16:54
utkarsh2102yes16:54
fheimes@bdrung I'm living here, but didn't grew up here, but nevertheless it is a very small unit ;-)16:54
rbasakI'd like to see that ML thread concluded with DMB consensus on the topic, but maybe it's best to follow existing precedent for cloud-init in the meantime16:55
rbasakSeeing as aciba has already been let down16:55
utkarsh2102i don't understand what that means16:55
rbasakAnd because it'd be a separate matter as to whether cloud-init is considered "core".16:55
bdrungfheimes, I was born in Baden-Württemberg, but grew up in Berlin.16:55
utkarsh2102are you okay with us continuing?16:56
rbasakI think it is probably "core", but cloud-init has been working well enough with PPU recently, especially as any changes have to effectively pass an SRU reviewer anyway.16:56
rbasakare you okay with us continuing> yes16:56
utkarsh2102great!16:56
rbasak#chair utkarsh2102 bdrung bdmurray teward16:57
meetingologyCurrent chairs: bdmurray, bdrung, rbasak, teward, utkarsh210216:57
rbasakI need to step away imminently so someone else will need to take over chairing16:57
utkarsh2102bdrung: are you okay to chair?16:57
bdrungokay16:58
bdrung#subtopic PPU application for cloud-init by Alberto Contreras at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (as 2024-09-02 did not happen).16:58
utkarsh2102\o/16:58
acibao/16:59
bdrung#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlbertoContreras/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication16:59
bdrungaciba, do you quickly want to introduce yourself?16:59
acibayes16:59
acibaI am Alberto Contreras, I have been working for Canonical during the last ~2.5 years as part of the Canonical Public Cloud (CPC) team focused on cloud-init on cloud-specific features / fixes.16:59
acibaI would like to apply to get upload permissions for cloud-init.17:00
acibaMore about myself and the application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlbertoContreras/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication17:00
bdrungThanks. Questions for aciba please.17:01
bdrungaciba, you list LP #2045582 as first entry under areas of work. What went well there and what did you learn there?17:04
-ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2045582 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Mantic) "sru cloud-init (23.4 update) Focal, Jammy, and Mantic" [Undecided, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204558217:04
utkarsh2102aciba: question - after you answer the above, what happens if the verification of the SRU fails? what do we do then?17:05
acibathe sru process, having the package in -proposed allowed other developers to test that new version and detect a couple of bugs prior to releasing it, iirc17:06
acibaso we detected a couple of bugs and proposed a new version of the package with those bugs fixed to be SRUed17:07
bdrungthanks. perfect transition to utkarsh2102's question17:09
acibaif the verification fails in a valid way, we need to hold that version and fix it17:10
acibaproposing a new version including the fix or fixes17:10
acibaas we did in #204558217:10
acibawe need to add the tags as verification failed to the lp bug17:10
utkarsh2102perfect, thanks17:11
utkarsh2102aciba: what freezes do you need to keep in mind before uploading?17:11
acibafeature freeze, documentation freeze, beta freeze, final freeze, they are doucmented here: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/oracular-oriole-release-schedule/3646017:12
utkarsh2102great17:12
bdrungaciba, when you upload a package to the archive, which steps are taken until the package hits the release pocket?17:12
acibatypically: unnapproved queue > -proposed > -updates17:13
acibathose steps are outlined here: https://canonical-sru-docs.readthedocs-hosted.com/en/latest/howto/standard/17:14
bdrungaciba, and in case of uploads to oracular?17:14
acibait depends on the time of the release cycle we are at17:15
acibaprior to feature freeze, it goes directly to the release pockets17:16
acibaafter feature freeze but prio to the release, it requires a ffe and goes directly to the release pocket after the ffe has cleared17:16
acibabefore release it follows the normal SRU process17:17
acibathat is: unnapproved queue > -proposed > -updates17:17
bdrungdid you mean s/before release/after release/?17:18
acibayes, sorry17:18
bdrungaciba, there is a step in between the upload and release pocket on the development series.17:19
acibait goes to the unpproved queue, but it gets automatically accepted under certain circumstances,17:20
bdrungaciba, and what about autopkgtest?17:21
acibathey are run when the package hits -proposed, every reverse dependency's dep8 test on the package get executed17:21
acibaon can see the results in the update excuses page17:22
acibaand the SRU drive must monitor and take care of them17:22
acibas/drive/driver/17:22
bdrungaciba, are autopkgtest only run for SRU uploads and not for development release uploads?17:23
acibathe rdeps ones yes, I belive the ones associated with the package itself do run on every build17:24
bdrungpackage uploads to the development release and up in -proposed first.17:27
bdrungs/and/end/17:28
acibathen yes, autopkgtest run for development release uploads17:28
bdrungDo you need a FFe for every upload after the feature freeze (and before the release)?17:29
acibano, for example, if there is a new upstream version that contains only bug fixes, then a new upload containing that does not require and ffe17:30
acibabefore the release, the SRU process holds17:30
bdrungs/before/after/?17:30
acibas/after/before/ again17:30
acibasorry I am a bit nervous17:31
bdrungthanks for being honest here (written text does not convey things like that)17:31
acibaexceptions to the FFe process can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess17:32
bdrungAny questions from my DMB fellows?17:33
utkarsh2102not from me17:35
tewardnone here17:35
bdrungaciba, You list https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/57bb32388 as one example. Anything one should be aware of when (re)moving files in /etc?17:35
-ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Commit 57bb323 in canonical/cloud-init "d/cloud-init.postinst: change priority of hotplug rules"17:35
acibait should not changer behavior, it should not remove config files created by the user17:38
acibait should aviod user intervention17:39
acibas/aviod/avoid17:39
acibadoes that satisfy your question?17:41
bdrungaciba, if upstream decides to drop a file in /etc can the package just remove the file in /etc on upgrade?17:41
acibadrop the file how?17:43
acibaat runtime?17:43
acibabdrung17:44
bdrungdrop = delete / not ship it in the file in the release tarball17:44
acibayes, the package maint scripts can delete a config file when it is not need anymore17:44
acibabut it depends in a case by case basis  I think17:45
bdrungaciba, and in case the file was modified by the user?17:45
acibawe should minimize user disruption17:45
acibaand if the user modified the file, the maint scripts shouldn't remove the file17:46
bdrungperfect thanks. i was aiming for the helpers from https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/noble/en/man1/dpkg-maintscript-helper.1.html to be used to handle that.17:46
bdrungI am done with my questions.17:47
bdrungEveryone ready for voting?17:47
utkarsh2102yes17:47
utkarsh2102teward, bdmurray?17:47
bdmurrayI have no questions.17:47
utkarsh2102bdrung: i think we should proceed17:48
utkarsh2102it's wayyyyy over time17:48
utkarsh2102teward will follow up17:49
tewardno questions17:49
utkarsh2102there :)17:49
bdrung#vote Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init17:49
meetingologyPlease vote on: Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init17:49
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')17:49
teward(you already asked if we had more questions and I didn't)17:49
utkarsh2102writing a review..17:51
utkarsh2102+1; I think Alberto has quite a lot of experience with cloud-init & its internals. I think they'd be a great addition as an uploader of the package. Yes, there were some answers which weren't completely clear but that's okay, I think those are smaller and can be learned on the fly. Alberto, I'd ask you to exercise your upload rights with caution &17:53
meetingology+1; I think Alberto has quite a lot of experience with cloud-init & its internals. I think they'd be a great addition as an uploader of the package. Yes, there were some answers which weren't completely clear but that's okay, I think those are smaller and can be learned on the fly. Alberto, I'd ask you to exercise your upload rights with caution & received from utkarsh210217:53
utkarsh2102please don't hesitate to ask before uploading or whenever in doubt. More reviews, better the upload is. So please keep in mind all those things when you upload. ;)17:53
utkarsh2102bdrung, bdmurray, teward?17:54
bdrung+1 I concur what utkarsh2102 wrote17:55
meetingology+1 I concur what utkarsh2102 wrote received from bdrung17:55
teward+!17:55
tewardoops17:55
teward+117:55
meetingology+1 received from teward17:55
bdmurray+117:55
meetingology+1 received from bdmurray17:55
utkarsh2102#endvote17:56
meetingologyVoting ended on: Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init17:56
meetingologyVotes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 017:56
meetingologyMotion carried17:56
utkarsh2102yay!17:56
utkarsh2102aciba: congratulations! <317:56
acibawow, many thanks, I will take care and ask when in doubt17:56
utkarsh2102aciba: super! thank you!17:56
bdrungaciba, congrats. asking when in doubt is the correct mindset. nobody knows everything.17:57
utkarsh2102#action rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application17:57
meetingologyACTION: rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application17:57
utkarsh2102ok, I'm going to call if off. It was a pretty long meeting :)17:57
utkarsh2102thank you so much for chairing, bdrung.17:57
acibamuch appreciated, have a good day o/17:57
bdrungexactly17:57
utkarsh2102you were great! o/17:57
utkarsh2102#endmeeting17:58
meetingologyMeeting ended at 17:58:05 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-16-16.27.moin.txt17:58
bdrungnow I have to recharge after 360 and this meeting.17:59
tewardnow for late lunch18:35
=== not_phunyguy is now known as phunyguy
=== arif-ali_ is now known as arif-ali
=== lucyllewy_ is now known as lucyllewy

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