| * slyon lightning the MIR camp fire o/ | 14:30 | |
| sarnold | good morninig | 14:30 |
|---|---|---|
| slyon | c_paelzer is busy today. So let me run the meeting. | 14:31 |
| slyon | #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status | 14:31 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 14:31:14 UTC. The chair is slyon. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 14:31 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 14:31 |
| slyon | Ping for MIR meeting - didrocks joalif slyon sarnold c_paelzer jamespage ( eslerm dviererbe ) | 14:31 |
| slyon | #topic current component mismatches | 14:31 |
| slyon | Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams | 14:31 |
| slyon | #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg | 14:31 |
| slyon | #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg | 14:31 |
| slyon | the component-mismatches report is still outdated. Last run was about a week ago. sil2100 is coordinating with IS to get it resolved. | 14:32 |
| jamespage | o/ | 14:32 |
| slyon | There's not much we can do. No news in the old reports. | 14:32 |
| slyon | #topic New MIRs | 14:32 |
| slyon | Mission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing | 14:32 |
| slyon | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:32 |
| slyon | the review queue is empty. | 14:32 |
| slyon | #topic Incomplete bugs / questions | 14:32 |
| slyon | Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams | 14:33 |
| slyon | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:33 |
| slyon | bug #2080965 is basically ready | 14:33 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2080965 in architecture-properties (Ubuntu) "[MIR] architecture-properties" [Low, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2080965 | 14:33 | |
| slyon | but waiting for some -dev packages exclusion discussion (more on that later) | 14:33 |
| slyon | (no security review needed) | 14:34 |
| slyon | bug #2058192 | 14:34 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2058192 in OEM Priority Project "[MIR] lenovo-wwan-unlock" [Critical, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2058192 | 14:34 | |
| slyon | eslerm suggested this package should move to the OEM archive. I talked to sil2100 but he couldn't help a lot. We need to coordinate with the OEM team directly, then he can drop it from multiverse/restricted (if desired). | 14:35 |
| slyon | The updates on the LP bug suggest that the OEM team might be interested in keeping it in the primary archive, still. | 14:35 |
| cpaelzer | hey, sorry for all the roadmap to blast over MIR meetings | 14:36 |
| cpaelzer | BTW I've followed up on wsdd as you pinged me last week - thanks | 14:36 |
| sarnold | wsdd https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wsdd/+bug/2070025 | 14:37 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2070025 in wsdd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] wsdd" [Undecided, In Progress] | 14:37 | |
| slyon | let me ask them to address the comments made by didrocks on the bug report, as that would be a minimal requirement for main/restricted inclusion | 14:37 |
| didrocks | thanks slyon :) | 14:39 |
| slyon | comment added. | 14:40 |
| slyon | thanks for moving wsdd forward, cpaelzer ! | 14:40 |
| slyon | I also moved this one forward, which is now ready for a seed change https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-terminal-exec/+bug/2069308 (cc jbicha) | 14:41 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2069308 in xdg-terminal-exec (Ubuntu) "MIR xdg-terminal-exec" [Undecided, In Progress] | 14:41 | |
| slyon | #topic Process/Documentation improvements | 14:41 |
| slyon | Mission: Review pending process/documentation pull-requests or issues | 14:41 |
| slyon | #link https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/pulls | 14:41 |
| slyon | #link https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/issues | 14:41 |
| slyon | sarnold: could you confirm this is working for you? https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/pull/68 then we could merge it | 14:42 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Pull 68 in canonical/ubuntu-mir "Fix visually broken flowchart (#67)" [Open] | 14:42 | |
| sarnold | oo moment.. | 14:42 |
| slyon | I wasn't able to continue on the Rust docs, https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/pull/66 – would love to adopt/recommend the s390-tools way of doing it, but didn't get to it this week between all the other stuff | 14:42 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Pull 66 in canonical/ubuntu-mir "Import Rust vendoring document" [Open] | 14:42 | |
| slyon | which leaves us with only one (new) issue: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/issues/69 and I'd love to see senior MIR people chime in on this (cc cpaelzer didrocks jamespage) | 14:44 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Issue 69 in canonical/ubuntu-mir "Do we benefit from having the dev binary packages promoted?" [Open] | 14:44 | |
| slyon | I had some discussions about this with seb128 today, after the architecture-properties MIR in https://launchpad.net/bugs/2080965 | 14:44 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2080965 in architecture-properties (Ubuntu) "[MIR] architecture-properties" [Low, Incomplete] | 14:44 | |
| cpaelzer | why is that even a big problem? | 14:45 |
| cpaelzer | the "by default" is only the auto-include meant to cover things that are usually not picked up by direct dependencies | 14:45 |
| cpaelzer | that is the set of -doc and -dev | 14:45 |
| cpaelzer | but AFAIK it was always ok to opt-out by adding an extra-exclude | 14:45 |
| slyon | we have a case of libglib2.0-dev depending on a new "architectures-properties" tool that mostly a helper script for cross-building | 14:46 |
| cpaelzer | Surely this comes from a time when the support on universe was not yet as good, community not as mature and pro did not yet exist to cover universe | 14:46 |
| cpaelzer | back than it was more important to move those to main if it was possible | 14:46 |
| cpaelzer | but if there are conflicts and problems, and really the only thing that puts the -dev/-doc into main is the auto-incliude | 14:47 |
| cpaelzer | then just go for adding an exclude | 14:47 |
| cpaelzer | If I understand correctly, the question is "do we still want to try to promote these by default" right? | 14:47 |
| slyon | right. I guess that's true for "normal" packages. But "Demoting libglib2.0-dev isn't easy because it's a low level libraries that most other desktop dev libraries depends on." So the desktop team would need to maintain a long-tail of -dev exclusions | 14:48 |
| slyon | or get their -dev dependencies included in "main" | 14:48 |
| slyon | correct cpaelzer | 14:48 |
| cpaelzer | If other things "really" depend on it (not just the auto-inclusion), then yes it should stay in main IMHO | 14:48 |
| cpaelzer | about the issue of maintaining long tails | 14:49 |
| cpaelzer | we faced similar issues in server when some packages had too much content in a few packages | 14:49 |
| cpaelzer | like 50 plugins of which only 2 really were prime time | 14:49 |
| cpaelzer | there we ended up splitting the package | 14:49 |
| cpaelzer | and the one that stayed in main has much more reasonable dependencies than the former huge super-package | 14:50 |
| cpaelzer | I do not know the libglib2.0-dev situation, but could something like that help there too? | 14:50 |
| didrocks | cpaelzer: smell like a similar story than gstreamer plugins :) | 14:50 |
| slyon | I need to check the germinate output to see what exactly is pulling in libglib2.0-dev. | 14:50 |
| didrocks | slyon: I’m afraid you will end up with a long list of -dev packages depending on libglib2.0-dev | 14:51 |
| didrocks | gtk being one, for instance | 14:51 |
| slyon | But do I understand correctly, that you suggest instead of doing the MIR for a new build-tool dependency we should rather work with Extra-Excludes? | 14:51 |
| cpaelzer | the one that is accoutned for in germinate is libaccountsservice-dev , but there might be more than that as didrocks says | 14:52 |
| didrocks | yeah, germinate will only points to the "first" one that it founds IIRC | 14:52 |
| cpaelzer | correct | 14:52 |
| didrocks | you "fix" it, then goes to the next… | 14:52 |
| slyon | right. | 14:52 |
| cpaelzer | slyon: If that -dev package has no deep purpose or reason on it's own to be in main - AND only is in for auto-include. Then an auto-exclude is ok AFAIK | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | there are -dev which contain tools that are needed, others are actually always linked in so they are actually active code, ... - these would not qualify | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | but if it really is a normal -dev mostly having headers but not more | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | then an exclude if it causes pain might be ok | 14:53 |
| didrocks | and agreed | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | but one would need to work back the chain e.g. the aforementioned libaccountsservice-dev | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | and add them all | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | ensuring that NONE of them has a deeper purpose | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | -doc is a similar story BTW | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | often pulling in weird tools to build yet another special markdown language | 14:55 |
| didrocks | another approach is to patch so that architectures-properties can be downgraded to a suggests | 14:55 |
| slyon | Yes... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/architecture-properties/+bug/2080965 might have a deeper purpose potentially, it provides the "architecture-is-64bit" or "architecture-is-big-endian" meta packages. but OTOH we didn't need it in main up to now | 14:55 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2080965 in architecture-properties (Ubuntu) "[MIR] architecture-properties" [Low, Incomplete] | 14:55 | |
| didrocks | as it’s "only" for cross-arch builds from what you discussed? | 14:55 |
| jbicha | https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/commit/?id=4c41750b is an approximation of the number of excludes you would need | 14:55 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Commit 4c41750 in ~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu "Extra-Exclude: drop the sysprof exclusions" | 14:55 | |
| slyon | it also provides a wrapper around qemu-user to execute cross-architecture tests for example | 14:56 |
| jbicha | it's incomplete because it would take me a few rounds with an archive admin to ensure we got everything | 14:56 |
| sarnold | the "Build-Dependencies not necessarily in main" thing was kinda intended to help us keep sphinx and the like from getting messy | 14:56 |
| slyon | Okay. ovearll it seems like there's no consensus for changing the defaults to exclude -dev packages. And we should rather work out the issues case-by-case. Do we want to vote on this? | 14:58 |
| slyon | Maybe we can do that on Github, so we can move on with the meeting. | 14:59 |
| slyon | #topic MIR related Security Review Queue | 14:59 |
| slyon | Mission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable? | 14:59 |
| slyon | Some clients can only work with one, some with the other escaping - the URLs point to the same place. | 14:59 |
| slyon | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:59 |
| slyon | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=[MIR]&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:59 |
| slyon | Internal link | 14:59 |
| slyon | #link https://warthogs.atlassian.net/jira/software/c/projects/SEC/boards/594 | 14:59 |
| slyon | sarnold: are you still keeping up the pace? | 14:59 |
| sarnold | sorry, distracted .. | 15:01 |
| slyon | I see rpds-py is now in progress (cc jamespage) | 15:01 |
| jamespage | \o/ | 15:02 |
| sarnold | the velocity is not what it was, but yes, progress is still being made on some packages | 15:02 |
| slyon | Okay. We're over time already. So do we have anything else? | 15:02 |
| slyon | https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/issues/67 | 15:02 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Issue 67 in canonical/ubuntu-mir "Flowchart seems a bit broken" [Closed] | 15:02 | |
| cpaelzer | at least that, thanks | 15:02 |
| slyon | #topic Any other business? | 15:03 |
| slyon | (sorry, wrong paste-buffer above) | 15:03 |
| sarnold | sigh, I thought I had something, but i've gone blank. :/ | 15:03 |
| cpaelzer | not from me | 15:04 |
| slyon | sarnold: next time you remember it, create an issue on the ubuntu-mir github. so you don't have to remember it :) | 15:04 |
| cpaelzer | lol | 15:04 |
| sarnold | lol | 15:04 |
| slyon | :P | 15:05 |
| cpaelzer | thanks slyon for driging in these roadmappy times | 15:05 |
| cpaelzer | umm "driving" | 15:05 |
| slyon | if nothing else, thats all, folks! | 15:05 |
| sarnold | thanks slyon, all :) | 15:05 |
| slyon | #endmeeting | 15:05 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 15:05:24 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-24-14.31.moin.txt | 15:05 |
| sil2100 | o/ | 19:00 |
| amurray | o/ | 19:00 |
| seb128 | o/ | 19:01 |
| sil2100 | Looks like amurray is to chair today according to the Agenda? | 19:01 |
| amurray | #startmeeting Ubuntu Technical Board | 19:02 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 19:02:00 UTC. The chair is amurray. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 19:02 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 19:02 |
| amurray | #topic Apologies | 19:02 |
| sil2100 | I would like to apologize for my absence last time | 19:02 |
| rbasak | o/ | 19:02 |
| sil2100 | I was supposed to appear, but somehow I ended up distracted enough to miss it... | 19:02 |
| amurray | thanks sil2100 - no worries | 19:02 |
| amurray | no apologies that I can see for todays meeting | 19:03 |
| amurray | #topic Action review | 19:03 |
| amurray | ACTION: vorlon to look into scripting for packages in flavor-specific overlays | 19:03 |
| amurray | looks like vorlon is not around - will carry-over | 19:04 |
| amurray | #action vorlon to look into scripting for packages in flavor-specific overlays | 19:04 |
| meetingology | ACTION: vorlon to look into scripting for packages in flavor-specific overlays | 19:04 |
| amurray | ACTION: seb128 to continue working with SRU, AA, Release, Backporters and Security teams to document their membership process and link to it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard#Team_Delegations | 19:04 |
| seb128 | carry-over please | 19:04 |
| amurray | #action seb128 to continue working with SRU, AA, Release, Backporters and Security teams to document their membership process and link to it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard#Team_Delegations | 19:05 |
| meetingology | ACTION: seb128 to continue working with SRU, AA, Release, Backporters and Security teams to document their membership process and link to it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard#Team_Delegations | 19:05 |
| rbasak | On the above... | 19:05 |
| rbasak | Note that the SRU team documentation now includes a section on that, so I think this is done for the SRU team. | 19:05 |
| rbasak | I guess I should link to it from the wiki | 19:05 |
| amurray | Similarly I have documented the process for the Security team as well and linked to it from the TB page on the wiki | 19:06 |
| amurray | #undo | 19:06 |
| meetingology | Removing item from minutes: ACTION | 19:06 |
| sil2100 | I think we need to do the same for the Release team. I have a general draft of Release membership onboarding that I could extend to that, but we still need to define all of it from the Release team | 19:06 |
| sil2100 | The onboarding document for now is internal for internal onboarding processes, but there's actually no reason for it to not become public | 19:06 |
| seb128 | I need to do the same for the archive admins | 19:06 |
| amurray | ok lets keep the Release Team and AA teams on the action item them | 19:07 |
| sil2100 | Let me add it to the next release meeting agenda | 19:07 |
| sil2100 | Ok done, I'll discuss it with the team | 19:07 |
| amurray | #action seb128 to continue working with AA and Release teams to document their membership process and link to it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard#Team_Delegations | 19:07 |
| meetingology | ACTION: seb128 to continue working with AA and Release teams to document their membership process and link to it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard#Team_Delegations | 19:07 |
| seb128 | thanks | 19:07 |
| amurray | ACTION: sil2100 to follow up on the Cinnamon 24.04 LTS Qualification re the number of contacts listed for the flavor | 19:08 |
| seb128 | nice to see some change on that item, it has been carried over for ever :) | 19:08 |
| sil2100 | I have a question regarding that one | 19:08 |
| sil2100 | So when I started drafting an e-mail, I actually wanted to find some context of this one, but I guess I didn't search well enough | 19:08 |
| sil2100 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCinnamon/24.04/LTS-Proposal | 19:09 |
| sil2100 | Is the problem we're trying to ask about that there's too many contacts listed? | 19:09 |
| sil2100 | Because originally I thought the problem was that there were not enough | 19:09 |
| sil2100 | What is the original ask here, apologies for asking | 19:10 |
| amurray | hmm I am not sure either - am trying to see if I can find anything but so far am coming up blank | 19:10 |
| seb128 | https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2024/04/09/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:12 | 19:12 |
| seb128 | it's coming from here | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | To be fair, the Cinnamon situation is a bit weird. Basically during Beta we had trouble getting in touch with the main flavor lead, but indeed the rest of listed people were able to act on the flavor | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | Okay, so it is the fact of 'too many contacts'. The list doesn't include 10 people though, just 4 through name | 19:13 |
| sil2100 | And I think mentioning 'members of ubuntucinnamon-dev' is a natural thing to say? | 19:13 |
| sil2100 | But okay, let's carry over my item. What I'll do is send a message to Cinnamon asking them about current contact information | 19:14 |
| sil2100 | And making sure that all the contacts that are listed can action on the actual flavor | 19:14 |
| amurray | thanks sil2100 | 19:14 |
| sil2100 | And can be made accountable | 19:14 |
| sil2100 | Thank you for the context o/ | 19:14 |
| seb128 | it seems reasonable to me as well, I'm unsure to understand the original concern, maybe just dropping the reference to the team would be enough? | 19:14 |
| seb128 | thanks! | 19:15 |
| amurray | #action sil2100 to follow up on the Cinnamon 24.04 LTS Qualification to ensure the listed contacts can action the flavor | 19:15 |
| meetingology | ACTION: sil2100 to follow up on the Cinnamon 24.04 LTS Qualification to ensure the listed contacts can action the flavor | 19:15 |
| amurray | ACTION: rbasak to document the third party software sources policy somewhere appropriate | 19:15 |
| rbasak | o/ | 19:16 |
| rbasak | I created https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-governance-docs | 19:16 |
| rbasak | Getting some help from a technical author within Canonical for the infrastructure pieces | 19:16 |
| rbasak | But this is still in progress | 19:16 |
| rbasak | Please carry over | 19:16 |
| sil2100 | \o/ | 19:16 |
| amurray | nice - thanks rbasak | 19:16 |
| amurray | #action rbasak to document the third party software sources policy somewhere appropriate | 19:17 |
| meetingology | ACTION: rbasak to document the third party software sources policy somewhere appropriate | 19:17 |
| amurray | #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item) | 19:17 |
| amurray | #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2024-September/thread.html | 19:17 |
| amurray | nothing there | 19:17 |
| amurray | #topic Check up on community bugs and techboard bugs | 19:17 |
| amurray | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard | 19:17 |
| amurray | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/techboard | 19:18 |
| amurray | LP: #2015920 can probably be closed out soon rbasak | 19:18 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2015920 in techboard "Third party repository policy is not well defined" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2015920 | 19:18 | |
| rbasak | Agreed. I was going to get it documented first so was just waiting on that so I could post a link in the bug on closing it. | 19:19 |
| amurray | sounds good | 19:19 |
| amurray | #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members) | 19:19 |
| amurray | looks like rbasak and seb128 | 19:20 |
| amurray | #agreed next meeting chair: rbasak, backup: seb128 | 19:20 |
| meetingology | AGREED: next meeting chair: rbasak, backup: seb128 | 19:20 |
| rbasak | ack | 19:20 |
| amurray | #topic AOB | 19:20 |
| sil2100 | Nothing from me | 19:20 |
| seb128 | not from me | 19:21 |
| amurray | nor from me | 19:21 |
| amurray | looks like we are done then - thanks folks | 19:21 |
| amurray | #endmeeting | 19:21 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 19:21:56 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-24-19.02.moin.txt | 19:21 |
| sil2100 | Thank you o/ | 19:21 |
| seb128 | thanks! | 19:22 |
| rbasak | Thanks! | 19:22 |
| === nicoz_ is now known as nicoz | ||
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