=== pushkarnk1 is now known as pushkarnk
=== pushkarnk1 is now known as pushkarnk
[15:00] <Skia> o7
[15:00] <slyon> o/
[15:00] <liushuyu> o/
[15:00] <uralt> o/
[15:00] <juliank> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:00:54 UTC.  The chair is juliank.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:00] <juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:01] <juliank> #link https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/foundations-team-updates-thursday-2024-10-17/
[15:01] <ginggs> o/
[15:01] <zhsj> o/
[15:01] <mateus-morais> o/
[15:01] <ravikant_> o/
[15:01] <upils> o/
[15:02] <pushkarnk> \o
[15:02] <ogayot> o/
[15:02] <mkukri> o/
[15:03] <bdrung> \o
[15:03] <andersson123> o/
[15:04] <mkukri> what are we using LLVM-18 in focal for? that backport is scary
[15:04] <liushuyu> mkukri: two words: Firefox Thunderbird
[15:04] <adrien> \o
[15:04] <mkukri> ah ic that explains it
[15:07] <juliank> fwiw I'm working on accessing the reports.qa.ubuntu.com but I'm timing out so far
[15:07] <juliank> But it might be trying https only for now
[15:07] <juliank> Obviously my firefox is set https-only, and the site doesn't have https
[15:07] <Skia> juliank: working fine with http
[15:08] <juliank> But _normally_ there should be a fallback button once it fails to upgrade
[15:08] <Skia> I'll probably see to enable https this cycle, but sadly won't hack that right now :-)
[15:08] <dbungert> In my report I have a stack overflow link where I had to tweak hsts to get the sponsoring report to load
[15:09] <juliank> I'll restart my firefox
[15:09] <bdrung> i need to find some time to figure out how to setup letsencrypt with juju
[15:10] <bdrung> for the sponsoring report
[15:11] <juliank> Oh yes
[15:11] <juliank> dbungert: Thanks
[15:12] <juliank> So I guess it turns out ubuntu.com enabled HSTS for all *.ubuntu.com
[15:12] <juliank> So it's not possible to visit the reports after having been to the web page once
[15:13] <juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:13] <juliank> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-oo-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:13] <Skia> there isn't HSTS on autopkgtest.ubuntu.com, so no
[15:13] <liushuyu> You can try w3m instead
[15:13] <adrien> works for me
[15:13] <juliank> It works now after clearing all ubuntu.com data in firefox
[15:13] <dbungert> Skia: I had to remove the inherited value for ubuntu.com
[15:13] <upils> There is already a bug in http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-pp-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs :)
[15:13] <Skia> oh, okay, I see what you meant now
[15:13] <juliank> bug 2084208
[15:14] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2084208 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade fails when esm is enabled" [Medium, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2084208
[15:14] <waveform> afraid that report really doesn't work in w3m ... too much js  :)
[15:14] <juliank> upils: Sigh it's too early!
[15:14] <juliank> That sounds striaght forward and awkward
[15:14] <juliank> Let's just take it
[15:14] <slyon> upils: we've been kicking that down the road for a while :)
[15:15] <upils> oh yeah!
[15:15] <juliank> bug 2083942
[15:15] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2083942 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "snaps are not upgraded to the latest version before upgrading to the next ubuntu release" [Wishlist, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2083942
[15:15] <juliank> I believe we should take that too
[15:15] <enr0n> juliank: should we just block upgrades if esm is enabled in that case?
[15:15] <enr0n> sorry, I don't think we concluded the previous bug
[15:16] <juliank> enr0n: We probably need to remove the sources and justu pgrade
[15:17] <enr0n> juliank: hm, I don't have a great understanding of how the ESM stuff works, but it seems to me that this might be unexpected for users
[15:17] <juliank> enr0n: there is no esm for interim releases so the expectation is for it to be disabled again
[15:18] <juliank> Otherwise youc an't upgrade
[15:18] <enr0n> juliank: right, I am just wondering if this should be made clear to users who might not realize that. Just a y/n prompt
[15:18] <juliank> Or you can prompt I suppose
[15:18] <enr0n> this feels like a product-y question
[15:18] <juliank> Or we could publish empty ESM repositories for non-LTS, shrug
[15:19] <juliank> That's a question for the Pro team
[15:19] <enr0n> anyways, we can move on I think
[15:20] <juliank> Yes
[15:20] <juliank> so snaps, should we  refresh them all during release upgrade?
[15:20] <enr0n> They should get refreshed on reboot, and we prompt for reboot
[15:21] <enr0n> We used to actually do the refresh during upgrades, but that caused bugs in some cases, so we changed the logic to do the channel switch if needed
[15:21] <enr0n> And let the next refresh do the work
[15:21] <juliank> You are saying all  snaps are refreshed at boot?
[15:21] <enr0n> My understanding was that snapd had some logic for this, yes
[15:21] <enr0n> But I am not 100% sure actually
[15:21] <juliank> Well let's add a snapd task
[15:23] <juliank> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-nn-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:23] <juliank> bug 2041518 is still with desktop
[15:23] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2041518 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk:5:_g_log_abort:g_log_writer_default:g_log_structured_array:g_log_structured_array:g_log_structured_standard" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2041518
[15:23] <juliank> bug 2078579
[15:23] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2078579 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Holding Back libpcap0.8t64:amd64 rather than change libibverbs1:amd64" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2078579
[15:24] <juliank> This is one of those awkward deep deives
[15:25] <juliank> I can't quite think about that; we need to dive deeper but we don't want to spend a week debugging the solver for this either
[15:26] <juliank> Let's move on for now
[15:26] <juliank> bug 2081323
[15:26] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2081323 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Local-only mirror disabled; no mirror left" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2081323
[15:26] <juliank> So we had a discussion about a similar issue vorlon but here we have a local mirror that does not work *but* an ESM archive enabled, so it still believes there was a mirror and doesn't produce useful messages or something
[15:27] <juliank> 2024-09-20 17:57:28,720 ERROR No 'ubuntu-minimal' available/downloadable after sources.list rewrite+update
[15:27] <juliank> 2024-09-20 17:57:28,720 ERROR 'ubuntu-minimal' was not downloadable
[15:27] <juliank> This is not really helpful for the user
[15:27] <juliank> And I *think* without ESM it would use archive.ubuntu.com because it sees no official Ubuntu source?
[15:28] <vorlon> (I don't recall a similar issue I was involved in fwiw)
[15:28] <enr0n> yeah,if the esm archive was not present (i.e. no valid sourcec found) that should be the fallback
[15:28] <juliank> vorlon: well to be fair it was like 2-3 months ago :D
[15:28] <enr0n> FWIW I think --allow-third-party or whatever also allows local mirrors
[15:28] <juliank> yeah
[15:29] <juliank> So we should take this, improve the error message and special case "only ESM is a valid source"
[15:29] <enr0n> ack
[15:30] <juliank> bug 2083068
[15:30] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2083068 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "Broken libglib2.0-dev:i386 Depends on python3:i386 < none | 3.12.3-0ubuntu2 @un uH >" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2083068
[15:30] <juliank> glib2.0 is shared so we could take this
[15:30] <vorlon> juliank: I remember stuff around broken local mirrors but not about esm being enabled :)
[15:31] <juliank> I'll go take the glib2.0 I guess, desktop did not seem interested :D
[15:32] <juliank> And I assigned it myself to, I need to re-validate the fix
[15:32] <juliank> bug 2083575
[15:32] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2083575 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "failed upgrade left apt sources on wrong release" [Undecided, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2083575
[15:32] <juliank> enr0n: this is funny
[15:32] <enr0n> looking
[15:33] <juliank> I guess we should abort the upgrade or install ubuntu-minimal first
[15:33] <juliank> Or except KeyError: print("blah")
[15:33] <enr0n> what in the
[15:34] <slyon> but original sources should always be restored, I guess
[15:34] <slyon> (on failure)
[15:34] <juliank> yeah
[15:34] <juliank> but if you don't have ubuntu-minimal installed, the check fails if all mirrors are disabled
[15:34] <juliank> if you have ubuntu-minimal installed, an ubuntu-minimal is around even with empty sources.list
[15:34] <juliank> without it, there is none, and the cache lookup we do fails :D
[15:35] <juliank> Like I said, this is very funny
[15:35] <juliank> And the sources are restored in normal control flow but not if an exception happens
[15:35] <juliank> We could also install a global exception handler that does rollback
[15:35] <enr0n> yeah tag away
[15:36] <enr0n> we definitely want a cleaner, more reliable rollback
[15:36] <juliank> tagged
[15:37] <juliank> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-jj-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs&ia=web
[15:37] <juliank> bug 2083529
[15:37] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2083529 in networkd-dispatcher (Ubuntu) "networkd-dispatcher: scripts not executed for renamed interfaces" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2083529
[15:37] <juliank> Who wants to play with networkd?
[15:37] <juliank> I know it's my package :|
[15:37] <enr0n> I guess me? If it's networkd
[15:38] <juliank> I guess networkd-dispatcher reads the wrong field from networkd
[15:38] <enr0n> Not that I know what networkd-dispatcher is
[15:38] <juliank> It's a python script that listens to networkd and dispatches hook scripts
[15:39] <juliank> It's aaaaaargh
[15:39] <juliank> Anyway I did tag this
[15:39] <enr0n> Hm okay, I will ask more questions later
[15:39] <juliank> And that wraps up incoming bugs
[15:39] <slyon> enr0n: you can pull me in on that if needed
[15:39] <juliank> Well I guess we can talk about the dbus-broker MIR again
[15:40] <enr0n> slyon: ack thanks
[15:40] <juliank> slyon: We should just move hook script running into netplan :D
[15:40] <juliank> Any news about dbus-broker?
[15:40] <slyon> :P
[15:40] <juliank> I noticed that there's yet a new dbus broker in town now
[15:40] <juliank> I remember hearing about it at all systems go
[15:41] <slyon> busd
[15:41] <juliank> bug 2015538 fwiw
[15:41] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2015538 in dbus-broker (Ubuntu) "[MIR] dbus-broker" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2015538
[15:41] <liushuyu> didn't they want to promote varlink too
[15:41] <bdrung> you guys from the past! varlink is the future! ;)
[15:41] <juliank> Different people doing different things
[15:42] <juliank> *systemd* is all crazy about varlink
[15:42] <juliank> Also the main APT author is all crazy about it
[15:42] <slyon> I think for dbus-broker to be feasible, we still need upstream improvements in gdm (and other greeters?)
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[15:42] <juliank> :D
[15:43] <bdrung> or gdm switching to varlink
[15:43] <juliank> heh
[15:43] <slyon> :D
[15:43] <juliank> We write our own dbus broker
[15:43] <juliank> It encapsulates dbus messages in varlink
[15:44] <adrien> I'll watch.
[15:44] <liushuyu> (Haven't we already seen the same story regarding REST vs GraphQL?)
[15:44] <juliank> But alright, nothing new in dbus-broker land
[15:44] <juliank> GraphQL is *amazing*
[15:44] <juliank> Amazingly annoying
[15:44] <bdrung> juliank, dpus is has so many issues in the protocol. the implementation cannot fix that.
[15:44] <juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:44] <juliank> We are going to skip this bit
[15:44] <juliank> We don't have an archive to work on
[15:44] <juliank> #topic AOB
[15:45] <juliank> Anything else?
[15:45] <juliank> Otherwise we stop at :46 :D
[15:45] <bdrung> 3cpio to rule the world!?
[15:45] <juliank> yes yes
[15:46] <juliank> To be fair I just want to ship prebuilt initrd cpio archives and combine those :D
[15:46] <juliank> but I digress
[15:46] <juliank> Final call!
[15:46] <juliank> 3
[15:46] <juliank> 2
[15:46] <juliank> 1
[15:46] <juliank> #endmeeting
[15:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:46:37 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-10-17-15.00.moin.txt
[15:46] <bdrung> you can use 3cpio during prebuilding initrds as well.
[15:46] <juliank> Thanks everyone
[15:46] <slyon> thanks juliank!