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| === cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer | ||
| === dbungert1 is now known as dbungert | ||
| rbasak | o/ | 18:55 |
|---|---|---|
| rbasak | I may be a few minutes late | 18:55 |
| mirespace | o/ | 18:58 |
| schopin | o/ | 19:03 |
| teward | i'm late | 19:05 |
| teward | but i'm here | 19:05 |
| teward | a call ran over | 19:06 |
| rbasak | I'm here now | 19:07 |
| schopin | bdrung is out. | 19:07 |
| rbasak | Could someone else chair please, so it's not just me and Utkarsh every time? | 19:10 |
| schopin | WIll do. | 19:14 |
| schopin | We don't have quorum yet though? | 19:14 |
| rbasak | We can have the meeting anyway | 19:14 |
| schopin | Alright then :) | 19:15 |
| schopin | #startmeeting Developer Membership Board | 19:15 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 19:15:21 UTC. The chair is schopin. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 19:15 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 19:15 |
| rbasak | If we're unanimously +1, then one of the absentees could finish it by email. | 19:15 |
| schopin | I believe we have one applicant for MOTU today, mirespace ? | 19:15 |
| mirespace | yes o/ | 19:16 |
| schopin | #topic MOTU Application | 19:16 |
| schopin | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MiriamEspanaAcebal/MOTUApplication | 19:16 |
| schopin | mirespace: hi :). Could you please introduce yourself? | 19:17 |
| mirespace | Hello. My name is Miriam España Acebal (two surnames), and I work as a distro engineer in the CPC team at Canonical, where I started in 7/2021 in the Server team. I usually deal with Microsoft-related packages because I'm on the Azure team. My last adventures involve WALinuxagent and the to-be-packaged rust-based GuestProxyAgent, but I also dedicate time to general distro work. | 19:17 |
| mirespace | My application was linked above | 19:17 |
| schopin | Thanks :) | 19:19 |
| mirespace | yw :) | 19:19 |
| teward | because i'm not caffeinated enough yet today, CPC = ? (For the IRC logs) | 19:19 |
| mirespace | Canonical Public Cloud (sorry!) | 19:19 |
| teward | no worries, i should know this but i haven't had enough coffee :) | 19:20 |
| schopin | I don't think even I knew that the first C was for Canonical. | 19:20 |
| mirespace | I think that there is a debate on that... in the last sprint, we only have Public Cloud in our badges | 19:20 |
| rbasak | OK so I'll start I guess! Let's say that it's after feature freeze in the cycle, and you're considering a package update from 1.2.3-1 to 1.2.4-0ubuntu1. What do you need to check for compliance with feature freeze, if anything? | 19:25 |
| utkarsh2102 | hey heey | 19:26 |
| mirespace | No new features and/or ABI/API changes for a package can be uploaded after Feature Freeze, so I would check that first | 19:26 |
| teward | o/ utkarsh2102 | 19:26 |
| utkarsh2102 | can someone send a scrollback please? | 19:26 |
| rbasak | mirespace: OK! So say that you look and there is a small feature change. You think the release team might grant an exception. How should you ask them for one? | 19:27 |
| schopin | utkarsh2102: done, check MM | 19:27 |
| mirespace | I will create a bug requesting a FeatureFreezeException following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | 19:28 |
| utkarsh2102 | thanks, schopin! o/ | 19:29 |
| mirespace | I can also ask in the ubuntu-release channel if someone on the release team can take a lok if I'm not sure enough, or tag the bug | 19:29 |
| mirespace | ubuntu-release tag | 19:30 |
| mirespace | Depending on what moment of the cycle we were, for no bother a lot the release team if they are in a critical task | 19:31 |
| rbasak | I'm not aware of an ubuntu-release tag. Is that documented anywhere? | 19:31 |
| mirespace | s/lok/look/ | 19:31 |
| utkarsh2102 | it's subscribing ~ubuntu-release not tagging the bug :) | 19:31 |
| mirespace | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess, the last point on FeatureFreeze for new upstream versions | 19:31 |
| mirespace | yes, true | 19:32 |
| mirespace | my fault | 19:32 |
| rbasak | OK :) | 19:32 |
| rbasak | So let's say that your FFe is granted, and you upload. It then gets "stuck in proposed". What does this mean, and where do you find documentation on how to handle this situation? | 19:33 |
| utkarsh2102 | question: I see Christian sponsoring a lot of uploads - at least definitely reviews - why is he not endorsing the application? | 19:33 |
| mirespace | That means that the migration process is failing at some point (test regressions, FTBFS, ...) | 19:33 |
| mirespace | Documentation about this can be find at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration | 19:34 |
| mirespace | and also at https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-maintainers-handbook/blob/main/ProposedMigration.md | 19:34 |
| utkarsh2102 | so what do you do then - if you see something that has not migrated, what are the next steps? | 19:34 |
| mirespace | I coul check if the package appears at https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html | 19:34 |
| mirespace | utkarsh2102: cpaelzer_ sponsored my ServerApplication, maybe that's the reason | 19:35 |
| mirespace | Once, in the update_excuses, I could check if there is a regression marked in some of the autopkgatest ran, for some architectures also | 19:36 |
| utkarsh2102 | what if it's not listed there? | 19:36 |
| utkarsh2102 | and the package is still not migrating | 19:36 |
| utkarsh2102 | well, it's listed there but there's nothing informational :) | 19:37 |
| mirespace | I could check britney output https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_output.txt | 19:37 |
| utkarsh2102 | coolio | 19:37 |
| mirespace | To see if some dependencies problem arose | 19:37 |
| utkarsh2102 | what would you if you see your package there? | 19:37 |
| utkarsh2102 | let's say you upload "moarvm" package | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | and it's listed there as: | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | trying: moarvm | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | skipped: moarvm (0, 6, 681) | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | got: 57+0: a-7:a-5:a-28:i-2:p-5:r-5:s-5 | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | * armhf: nqp, prove6, raku-file-find, raku-file-which, raku-getopt-long, raku-hash-merge, raku-json-class, raku-json-fast, raku-json-marshal, raku-json-name, raku-json-optin, raku-json-unmarshal, raku-librarycheck, raku-license-spdx, raku-log, raku-meta6, raku-readline, raku-tap-harness, raku-test-meta, raku-uri, raku-zef, rakudo | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | what does that mean | 19:38 |
| mirespace | I tried to fix something like that with a R package, following Adrien Nader recommendation in ubunut-devel mail list | 19:38 |
| utkarsh2102 | what will you do next? | 19:38 |
| mirespace | Is trying to install moarvm, but skipping in armhf arch | 19:39 |
| mirespace | The numbers I think are related to attemps | 19:40 |
| mirespace | and I probably will look for that dependencies to see if something are preventing that for installing in that arch | 19:40 |
| utkarsh2102 | hm, okeydoke | 19:40 |
| utkarsh2102 | sorry for hijacking, rbasak - back to you! | 19:40 |
| schopin | mirespace: Let's say you're about to upload a merge of a library from Debian, how would you check for possible transitions it would trigger? | 19:41 |
| mirespace | I should read more on britney doc | 19:41 |
| mirespace | I would check the reverse dependencies the library has | 19:42 |
| schopin | What would you check them for? | 19:42 |
| mirespace | if there is some ABI chekcs, I would check if looking for that changes in the rdependencies qith objdump, for example | 19:43 |
| mirespace | s/chekcs/changes/ | 19:43 |
| mirespace | s/qith/with | 19:44 |
| mirespace | I did that for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/heimdal/+bug/2036253 | 19:44 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2036253 in heimdal (Ubuntu Noble) "FTBFS: missing strl* symbols fail the build" [Undecided, Fix Released] | 19:44 | |
| mirespace | Which is the most similar to a transition I worked on | 19:44 |
| schopin | A fairly special case :) | 19:44 |
| schopin | Assuming upstream and Debian know of the ABI breakage, how would that show in the new version of the package? | 19:45 |
| schopin | For that hypothetical, let's assume intentional breakage rather than one caused by toolchains | 19:45 |
| mirespace | Ah, that question has a trick I remember .... | 19:46 |
| mirespace | I'm checking this because I don't remember https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-kernel-handbook/ch-versions.html | 19:47 |
| mirespace | mmm ... too quick that is for the kernel | 19:47 |
| schopin | are you familiar with the concept of soname? | 19:48 |
| mirespace | I waS CHECKING https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html#dependencies-between-the-packages-of-the-same-library | 19:48 |
| mirespace | soname : shared object name, I used it with simbol changes | 19:50 |
| schopin | How is it used in the packaging of a library? | 19:51 |
| mirespace | And the bump to the new version is made because they need to be installable concurrently | 19:51 |
| mirespace | libfoo-version.so | 19:52 |
| mirespace | or libfoo.so.version | 19:53 |
| rbasak | So on my system libjpeg-turbo8 ships /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.8.2.2. What's the soname likely to be? | 19:53 |
| mirespace | 8.2.2 | 19:53 |
| rbasak | (and it also ships /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.8 -> libjpeg.so.8.2.2) | 19:53 |
| mirespace | JPEG_8.2.2 | 19:54 |
| rbasak | May I move on from transitions and ask a final question? | 19:56 |
| schopin | Alas, no, it would be libjpeg.so.8 | 19:56 |
| schopin | rbasak: fine with me. | 19:57 |
| rbasak | mirespace: let's say you add a delta to package in universe during +1 maintenance. How will you ensure that it doesn't get left behind in the next cycle if Debian updates the package and it doesn't autosync because of the delta? What's the process in Ubuntu to ensure that this doesn't happen, for a package in universe? | 19:57 |
| mirespace | Oh, yes... I cannot process under nervouss, sorry: clear here: A shlibs file represents an SONAME as a library name and version number, such as libfoo VERSION, instead of recording the actual SONAME. If the SONAME doesn’t match one of the two expected formats (libfoo-VERSION.so or libfoo.so.VERSION), it cannot be represented, in the doc I linked above | 19:58 |
| mirespace | - Ways to follow-up later changes in merges: | 19:59 |
| mirespace | - If it needs a patch, because we’re modifying code outside debian folder in quilt format (3.0), we can put there in the description of the patch following DEP3 guidelines | 19:59 |
| mirespace | - If the merge review was done through MR in Launchpad, put it there, being careful of having the bug linked to the MR. | 19:59 |
| mirespace | - You can add a final comment to the bug | 19:59 |
| mirespace | - You can add a more descriptive comment in the commit that probably would be affected in the future merge | 19:59 |
| rbasak | I don't think that answered my question. Can you try reading it again please? Take your time, and ask me to clarify if you need. | 20:00 |
| schopin | FYI, we're out of time so i'll call for a vote after that question has been answered. | 20:00 |
| mirespace | Merges in universe will appear at https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html?showProposed=true&showMergeNeeded=true&showLongBinaries=true | 20:01 |
| rbasak | Yes - they'll appear there - but what's the *process* to ensure that an Ubuntu package with a delta won't languish in that report forever? | 20:02 |
| utkarsh2102 | i've also had questions - i'm not super decided yet but time constraints,, oh well :) | 20:02 |
| mirespace | rbask: the question is how the package appears on MOm or how we handle oa package that appears in mom? | 20:02 |
| utkarsh2102 | rbasak: i have a hard stop - it's 1:32 AM here. do you want to do votes already? | 20:02 |
| utkarsh2102 | teward, schopin? | 20:02 |
| schopin | I'm also close to my hard stop. | 20:03 |
| teward | i don't have a hard stop but my need for caffeine is making me hit one | 20:03 |
| mirespace | filling a bug for the next merge, subscribing someone also (the last autor) | 20:03 |
| === ebarretto_ is now known as ebarretto | ||
| rbasak | OK I think we need to move on to voting :-/ | 20:03 |
| mirespace | or a team that has it in the team mapping package | 20:04 |
| schopin | #vote Miriam to get MOTU rights | 20:04 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Miriam to get MOTU rights | 20:04 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname') | 20:04 |
| rbasak | -1 | 20:06 |
| rbasak | I'm not sure on your understanding of transitions. I think you might understand enough to know when to ask questions though. You see to understand the packaging uninstallability / migration side, but perhaps not the mapping from soname to binary side so well. | 20:06 |
| meetingology | -1 received from rbasak | 20:06 |
| rbasak | I'm also not so sure on your understanding of Ubuntu's merge process. I'm concerned that delta in Ubuntu will be left behind to languish. | 20:07 |
| rbasak | I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on one of those two topics, but I don't think I can for both, sorry! I think you're really close though. Please keep up the good work! | 20:07 |
| schopin | -1 Robie basically wrote much faster than I could organize my thoughts but it's a very similar reasoning. | 20:07 |
| meetingology | -1 Robie basically wrote much faster than I could organize my thoughts but it's a very similar reasoning. received from schopin | 20:07 |
| rbasak | I also appreciate that this may be a matter of not conveying understanding in a stressful IRC meeting :-/ | 20:08 |
| mirespace | And I'm sorry, I'm not exposed to transitions per se... I need to look for them with someone who wants | 20:08 |
| schopin | mirespace: A good way to touch transitions during +1 shifts is to work on NBS packages, as those are usually a symptom of ongoing transitions. | 20:09 |
| mirespace | schopin: thanks for the trick, crossing finger for my next shift hold something related | 20:10 |
| * rbasak needs to go now, sorry | 20:10 | |
| utkarsh2102 | -1; i was mostly +0 as I was not super decided as of yet. I've seen Miriam do good work on the CPC side and managing other things but on the other, I feel there's a room for improvement, needed for MOTU. Whilst the answers lead me towards -1, I am also not happy with the endorsements - few endorsers have only sponsored a limited number of packages. | 20:12 |
| utkarsh2102 | Those who have sponsored more haven't endorsed the application. I'd also like to see if that can be fixed for the next time. But as I said, Miriam is doing great stuff and I look forward to seeing her get MOTU and then eventually core-dev pretty soon! | 20:12 |
| meetingology | -1; i was mostly +0 as I was not super decided as of yet. I've seen Miriam do good work on the CPC side and managing other things but on the other, I feel there's a room for improvement, needed for MOTU. Whilst the answers lead me towards -1, I am also not happy with the endorsements - few endorsers have only sponsored a limited number of packages. received from utkarsh2102 | 20:12 |
| utkarsh2102 | teward? | 20:13 |
| teward | 01 reasoning to follow | 20:13 |
| teward | -1 reasoning to follow | 20:14 |
| meetingology | -1 reasoning to follow received from teward | 20:14 |
| utkarsh2102 | ok, I reallyyyyy need to drop - thanks for chairing schopin. I'll drop now. | 20:14 |
| utkarsh2102 | see you all soon! o/ | 20:14 |
| teward | I have seen some promising things in your history, but I fear you don't have the necessary knowledge to properly work on packages as a MOTU without supervision. Additionally, I agree the issue with your endorsements is concerning since none of the primary sponsors of your work endorsed things, which makes me a little concerned they may have intentionally not endorsed you. | 20:15 |
| schopin | #endvote | 20:16 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Miriam to get MOTU rights | 20:16 |
| meetingology | Votes for: 0, Votes against: 4, Abstentions: 0 | 20:16 |
| meetingology | Motion denied | 20:16 |
| mirespace | Thank you all | 20:16 |
| schopin | #action schopin to announce the results on the ML. | 20:16 |
| meetingology | ACTION: schopin to announce the results on the ML. | 20:16 |
| mirespace | It's the problem or being in a no-distro team | 20:17 |
| mirespace | s/or/of/... nut that's known :) | 20:17 |
| schopin | So sorry, I really have to run so I call this meeting to an end (at least as far as the bot is concerned) | 20:17 |
| schopin | #endmeeting | 20:17 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 20:17:39 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-11-25-19.15.moin.txt | 20:17 |
| * schopin logs off | 20:17 | |
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