| === zeroday06199 is now known as zeroday0619 | ||
| rbasak | o/ | 16:01 |
|---|---|---|
| liushuyu | o/ | 16:01 |
| schopin | o/ | 16:04 |
| schopin | I'm in a meeting so I likely won't be very active in the next 30mn (but I'll read everything nonetheless) | 16:04 |
| teward | here but in a meeting | 16:07 |
| schopin | As with the previous meetings, shall we start the meeting regardless of quorum and collect the missing votes on the ML? | 16:19 |
| teward | yep | 16:20 |
| schopin | Alright, I'll chair. | 16:21 |
| schopin | #startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting - 2025-01-06 | 16:21 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 16:21:45 UTC. The chair is schopin. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 16:21 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 16:21 |
| schopin | Welcome to the first DMB meeting of 2025 :) | 16:22 |
| schopin | I'll go straight to the point. | 16:22 |
| schopin | #topic Ubuntu MOTU Applications | 16:22 |
| schopin | #subtopic Ubuntu MOTU Application for Zixing Liu (liushuyu) | 16:23 |
| liushuyu | Hi, I am Zixing Liu. I am with the Foundations team in Canonical. I have been involved with the Ubuntu development for at least 2 years now. You can find my application here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/liushuyu-011/MOTUApplication | 16:23 |
| schopin | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/liushuyu-011/MOTUApplication | 16:23 |
| teward | *waits for the wiki site to not spin* | 16:24 |
| liushuyu | There is also https://archive.ph/6TvCJ if the wiki does not load | 16:24 |
| schopin | ah, still sobering up after its new year's eve excesses? | 16:24 |
| teward | action item: Preserve all of Steve Langasek's endorsements on people. RIP Steve Langasek, you will be missed. | 16:25 |
| schopin | If you're relying on the archived version, note that I added my own endorsement in the wiki after that page was snapshotted. | 16:25 |
| teward | also, rare endorsement from tsimonq2 on your profile nice | 16:25 |
| teward | schopin: nah wiki finally loaded for me | 16:25 |
| teward | i'mma ask IS to check the stability | 16:25 |
| schopin | it didn't for me. | 16:26 |
| teward | i have no questions, but rbasak might | 16:27 |
| teward | brb coffee refill | 16:27 |
| schopin | I don't really have questions either. | 16:28 |
| teward | rbasak: ? | 16:30 |
| rbasak | Still looking sorry | 16:30 |
| teward | no worries | 16:30 |
| rbasak | liushuyu: if you add a delta to a package in Ubuntu (eg. for +1 | 16:32 |
| rbasak | maintenance for some package in universe), what's your process for ensuring that th | 16:32 |
| rbasak | e package doesn't languish in the future? | 16:32 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: I am assuming you are talking about a potential merge that will replace the changes | 16:33 |
| liushuyu | documenting the changes thoroughly will help prevent this, and also making remarks/comments on MoM and/or Launchpad can also help the potential next uploader understand there are considerations to take into account when doing the merge | 16:34 |
| rbasak | liushuyu: I mean a new upload to Debian that will not be autosynced by Ubuntu becaues a delta exists | 16:35 |
| rbasak | liushuyu: for example, you did the merge of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vstream-client/1.2-7ubuntu1, but Debian has had an upload since. I think you know how to handle that situation now that it is pointed out to you. But what's your process to ensure that such a package gets noticed to be updated in Ubuntu appropriately, after you have added a delta? | 16:36 |
| rbasak | (I'm not sure if you added that particular delta or not but I hope it's a good enough example) | 16:36 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: I think a good way is to check merge-o-matic often and also subscribe to the Debian PTS (so that you will know if Debian has a newer upload) | 16:38 |
| rbasak | Do you check merge-o-matic often for your own uploads? | 16:38 |
| liushuyu | ... since a package like that is unlikely to be picked up by someone else or transitions | 16:39 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: Yes, but I might not do the merges right away since some packages may need further examination (or involve more complications with Debian upstream, in case I previously submitted the deltas to Debian) | 16:40 |
| rbasak | OK thanks | 16:42 |
| rbasak | Next question | 16:42 |
| rbasak | Looks like you uploaded (had sponsored) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rust-cargo-c/0.10.5-1ubuntu3 recently? | 16:42 |
| rbasak | What do you need to do next with that upload? | 16:42 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: Yes. So for that one, we have several non-forwardable patches inside the package due to how we maintain Rust-related tools. We will have to maintain this package separately from Debian. | 16:44 |
| rbasak | liushuyu: OK, and what's holding up its migration at the moment? | 16:44 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: what's holding up its migration at the moment? > according to https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_output.txt the dependencies are uninstallable because we have some dependency changes since this package has been uploaded | 16:46 |
| liushuyu | ... this is why we need to watch if Debian Rust Team(s) makes the new upload in their waterboxed Rust ecosystem | 16:47 |
| liushuyu | ... more specially, it's uninstallable on arm64 according to the output. But I think that's the limitation of Britney's output, as it should be uninstallable on multiple architectures | 16:48 |
| rbasak | OK | 16:49 |
| rbasak | Next question: let's say that you're about to upload a new version of a package. It's past feature freeze, so you don't want to inadvertently trigger a transition. | 16:49 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: We have process in place to avoid last-minute breakages, it's documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | 16:50 |
| rbasak | In the common case of a regular C library transition and packaing that follows best practice, what would you expect to see in the source package if there's a transition about to be triggered? | 16:51 |
| liushuyu | We can also look up the current release schedule to see when it's the feature freeze date ahead of time to pace the uploads accordingly | 16:51 |
| tsimonq2 | o/ and apologies. No questions from me right now. | 16:52 |
| teward | oh good we're quorate then i think | 16:52 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: In the common case of a regular C library transition and packaing that follows best practice > I think we will see the binary package name will have certain changes. We have mechanisms in place to mark the ABI revisions for binary packages | 16:52 |
| schopin | teward: depends on the votes though. | 16:52 |
| liushuyu | The number at the end of the binary packages might not necessarily mean the sover | 16:53 |
| teward | schopin: well if we go by that we're negative-quorate since excluding you or Simon means we're only able to +2 at most meaning this will end up in a Mailing List vote | 16:53 |
| teward | :p | 16:53 |
| rbasak | OK | 16:53 |
| liushuyu | It could also be a change in the C/C++ compiler or the toolchain in general | 16:53 |
| liushuyu | (e.g. t64) | 16:53 |
| tsimonq2 | (GCC 5) | 16:53 |
| rbasak | liushuyu: when is feature freeze for Plucky, where can you find that information, and what's the process for requesting an exception? | 16:54 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: I will need to look up the URL, and hope wiki and the forum won't have a heart attack | 16:54 |
| schopin | time check: we have 5 mn left on the schedule (and I can't go too much overtime) | 16:55 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: We have processes documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess, we do have exceptions to the exceptions (like security updates) | 16:56 |
| teward | tsimonq2: i'm going to borrow you after this | 16:56 |
| teward | schopin: start the vote now, put your vote in, and then we'll hand off to after via ML | 16:56 |
| teward | #chair teward schopin | 16:56 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: schopin, teward | 16:56 |
| teward | i'll take over chair | 16:56 |
| rbasak | OK since we're running of time I'll skip my remaining question | 16:57 |
| rbasak | Let's move to voting | 16:57 |
| liushuyu | The schedule is located at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/plucky-puffin-release-schedule/36461 | 16:57 |
| rbasak | FWIW, you might might the "grep-merges" command useful | 16:57 |
| teward | #voters teward rbasak schopin tsimonq2 | 16:57 |
| meetingology | Current voters: rbasak, schopin, teward, tsimonq2 | 16:57 |
| liushuyu | rbasak: Thanks for the suggestion! | 16:57 |
| teward | #vote Zixing Liu (liushuyu-011) MOTU | 16:57 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Zixing Liu (liushuyu-011) MOTU | 16:57 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname') | 16:58 |
| rbasak | +1 | 16:58 |
| meetingology | +1 received from rbasak | 16:58 |
| teward | +1 | 16:58 |
| meetingology | +1 received from teward | 16:58 |
| schopin | teward: thanks, I was still looking up the meeting commands :) | 16:58 |
| schopin | +1 | 16:58 |
| meetingology | +1 received from schopin | 16:58 |
| liushuyu | Sorry, Discourse is too modern of a web application, and it does not load very fast for Firefox | 16:58 |
| tsimonq2 | +1 As stated in my endorsement, I find liushuyu's uploads to be high quality. Strong +1 | 16:58 |
| meetingology | +1 As stated in my endorsement, I find liushuyu's uploads to be high quality. Strong +1 received from tsimonq2 | 16:58 |
| teward | schopin: that's why i opped (with my member cloak) and made myself chair to help expedite ;) | 16:58 |
| teward | (ubuntu members have op in here which is OP but i've used it before to help fix meeting problems) | 16:58 |
| rbasak | Generally you had good answers to my questions, and there's also nuance there that suggests to me that you understand the details in more depth than we had time to discuss directly. | 16:59 |
| rbasak | Thank you for your contributions to Ubuntu! | 16:59 |
| teward | schopin: your vote? | 16:59 |
| schopin | already done. | 16:59 |
| tsimonq2 | teward: get glasses :P | 16:59 |
| teward | oop there it is | 16:59 |
| schopin | Right before the Discourse vs Firefox lament ;) | 16:59 |
| teward | tsimonq2: get me coffee | 16:59 |
| teward | #endvote | 16:59 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Zixing Liu (liushuyu-011) MOTU | 16:59 |
| meetingology | Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0 | 16:59 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 16:59 |
| tsimonq2 | liushuyu: Congratulations! | 16:59 |
| teward | That's quorate, welcome to MOTU liushuyu | 16:59 |
| teward | schopin: you can handle the paperwork / announcement | 17:00 |
| liushuyu | Thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| schopin | teward: will do. | 17:00 |
| schopin | In an hour. | 17:00 |
| teward | #topic AOB | 17:00 |
| teward | #subtopic Discourse? | 17:00 |
| teward | this is just me being weird BUT | 17:00 |
| teward | have we considered makign a Discourse section for DMB so we don't have to deal with the Wiki stuff? | 17:00 |
| tsimonq2 | Emphatic +1000 | 17:01 |
| teward | i know it's different but a lot of teams - Community Council included - have started using it for its stuff | 17:01 |
| teward | and the wiki 503s intermittently every day at random hours so | 17:01 |
| teward | i'll bring it up in the ML but just wanted to put it on the minutes list as a discussion point | 17:01 |
| schopin | One issue with Discourse is that topics can't be edited after a set number of days. | 17:01 |
| teward | schopin: we can fix that with moderator privileges, etc. (fun fact I have that) | 17:01 |
| teward | (though I only use it to edit documentation content) | 17:01 |
| teward | it's still something to considier | 17:02 |
| teward | anyways, schopin has a hard stop so. | 17:02 |
| * schopin runs off. | 17:02 | |
| teward | #subtopic RIP Steve Langasek | 17:02 |
| tsimonq2 | :( | 17:02 |
| teward | just want to put that in there as an official declaration from the DMB that Steve Langasek was a wonderful person a great mentor and an asset. He will be missed. | 17:02 |
| teward | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 17:02:49 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2025/ubuntu-meeting.2025-01-06-16.21.moin.txt | 17:02 |
| teward | and now i go to get another cup of coffefe. | 17:02 |
| teward | and yes i misspelled it on purpose | 17:03 |
| teward | o/ | 17:03 |
| tsimonq2 | ditto | 17:03 |
| teward | tsimonq2: go read your Matrix DMs I need your brain for knowledge | 17:03 |
| teward | Debian knowledge | 17:03 |
| tsimonq2 | teward: hi chair I'm dad? | 17:03 |
| teward | *pours scalding hot water on @tsimonq2* | 17:03 |
| liushuyu | I find it weird in the English language that the leader of a meeting is called "chair" not "table" | 17:04 |
| teward | "meeting boss" is another way to put it | 17:04 |
| tsimonq2 | XD | 17:04 |
| teward | but in IRC we just call them "meeting gods" and the ops in channel are "meetingology gods" xD | 17:05 |
| tsimonq2 | I suppose the main chair at the table is the leader. | 17:05 |
| teward | *sips the freshly hot coffee* mmmmm caffeine | 17:05 |
| RikMills | tsimonq2: the office of speaker in a parliament is also referred to as 'the chair'. becuase they sit in a big badass one :D | 17:21 |
| RikMills | not sure if the actual origin, but that goes back to about when the term was 1st used | 17:23 |
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