mdzthough it would be useful in some instances12:04
mptmdz, do you use it in bugzilla?12:05
mdzas a secondary sort key for severity12:05
mdze.g., to prioritize among bugs of the same severity12:05
mptok, so is a bug with major severity that's P4 more important than a bug with normal severity that's P1?12:05
mptThat makes priority by itself pretty useless for searching, I guess12:06
mptso priority is useful only as a secondary sort after the primary sort of severity12:06
mdzI don't think I've ever searched by priority, no12:06
mdzwell, that's how I use it12:06
mdzI don't know what bugzilla.mozilla.org or others do12:07
mptSo would dumping severity work if there was an increased number of priority values available?12:08
mpte.g. 10 instead of 512:09
mptor would even that be unnecessary?12:11
mdzseverity generally has a useful definition12:13
mdzwhereas priority is just an ordered sequence12:13
mdzso it's better to have severity and not priority, than the reverse12:13
mdzseverity has an implicit priority because, in general, more severe bugs are more important to fix12:14
mdzto my mind anyway12:14
mdzI think that 10 severities is too many to choose from12:15
mptI'm (a) wanting Malone to be as simple as possible (and yeah, I know it's horribly complicated elsewhere, but every bit helps)12:15
mptand (b) wanting to avoid bunfights over what a bug's severity should be, as happens occasionally in Bugzilla, and even in Malone's bug 112:16
sabdflthe idea was that priority is what the assignee plans12:17
mdzmalone currently has severity and not priority, right?12:17
sabdflseverity is what Management Think12:17
mdzlike debbugs and unlike bugzilla12:17
sabdflmdz: Malone has both12:18
mdzsabdfl: to me, severity is inherent in the nature of the bug12:18
mptMalone currently has both, like Bugzilla12:18
mptand unlike debbugs and plone collector and jira and fogbuz12:18
sabdflmdz: fair enough, but the same bug affects different users differently12:18
mdzsabdfl: while priority is subjective and may change depending on circumstances12:18
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sabdflsort order, to a certain extent, should depend on whether or not you are looking at your bugs12:19
sabdfli want to see *my* priority bugs first12:19
sabdfland then in severity order12:19
mdzI see. the priority is not visible in the summary table, but is on the bug task page12:19
sabdflso things I've said are high priority, and within that in severity order, would be my order12:19
sabdflbut i would be ok if we dropped priority altogether12:19
mdzare you suggesting that a bug should have multiple priorities?12:19
mdzme too (dropped priority)12:20
sabdfland allowed admin and assignee to fight over one knob, so to speak12:20
mdzI like the idea of being able to bump a priority of a bug without lying about its severity12:20
mdzbut in practice, I don't think it really works today in bugzilla12:20
mdzand it's not clear to me how it would work in malone12:21
mdzif priority were to trump severity, then I'd say that severity would no longer be useful12:22
mdzit would become informational, and informationally it isn't very interesting12:22
mdzrather than a sortish thing12:22
mptwould renaming severity to "Importance" mean you weren't lying if you raised it?12:24
mptPlone Collector calls it Importance12:24
sabdflmpt: as long as the reporter cannot arbitrarily change this, i don't mind12:26
sabdflone knob is better, unless we can really justify the second12:26
mptright, neither severity nor priority are on the bug reporting form currently anyway12:26
sabdfli would be happy to hide priority for now, and resurrect it when we have a strong idea of what would change with it12:27
mptok, great12:27
mptthanks for your time mdz12:27
sabdflmpt: they should be able to change it after reporting it, unless they assign it to themselves12:27
mptyes, we can leave it wiki-mode just as we do with the rest of the bug fields12:28
mptand restrict that later only if it's really necessary12:28
sabdflmpt, you are welcome to my time too. and your salary.12:29
mdzmpt: and indeed they shouldn't be on the bug reporting form, except perhaps for users with established clue12:33
mdzusers in general have funny ideas about severity/priority/importance of their own bugs12:33
mdzin fact I don't like the idea of them being able to change them later, either12:33
mptyes, cognitive biases12:34
mpt(a) getting emotional about losing data/time, (b) over-estimating the bug's prevalence because of their personal experience, and (c) the CC list for the bug becomes a mini-mailing-list of people reinforcing each other's senses of the bug's importance12:35
jblacklifeless: ping12:37
jblackYou asked me to get ahold of you?12:37
lifelessthe  +branches/xxxxxxxx url - we tested those12:37
lifelessthere should be no need for you to change *anything*12:37
lifelesswhy do you think there is such a need ?12:37
jblackNo changes made.12:38
jblackI see two rewrite rules12:38
jblack  RewriteRule ^/(~[^/] +/[^/] +/[^/] +)/(.*) /${branch-list:$1}/$2 [L] 12:38
jblack  RewriteRule ^/\+branches/([[:xdigit:] ] {2})([[:xdigit:] ] {2})([[:xdigit:] ] {2})([[:xdigit:] ] {2})/(.*) /$1/$2/$3/$4/$512:38
lifelessright, the second handles +branches/xxxxxxxx12:38
jblackOh! Silly me12:38
lifelesswhich is for the launchpad branch scanner to use.12:38
jblackI read it wrong12:38
lifelessnp. might like to add a comment inyour config there, to help ;)12:40
jblackGood idea12:40
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mpt@#$%! Launchpad logging me out02:18
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sabdflmpt: it's saying "time to get outside and get some fresh air" ;-)02:58
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mptI just came back from lunch, I don't need another break that quickly :-)03:05
sabdflmpt: ah, are you home? summer in nz must be awesome. looking forward to lca.03:14
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ti83smasterwhats up03:45
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dilysMerge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  add custom rules for mapping the package name "linux" in bugzilla import (r2952: James Henstridge)08:18
fabbioneguys is it known that the editing of team members is all broken?09:16
fabbione(urls are messed up)09:16
SteveAwhat's up fabbione ?  can you show me an example?09:19
fabbioneSteveA: sure..09:19
fabbionestart from there09:19
fabbioneclick edit on one of the user awaiting approval09:19
fabbionethat page is still ok09:19
fabbioneapprove or decline will push you to a 40409:20
fabbionenote that it should have removed +memeber/sivan and add +memebers/ to get back to the correct page09:21
fabbioneThe reference for this error is OOPS-B195. Please include it in any related bug report or09:21
SteveAfor sivan, should i approve or decline?09:21
fabbionei just approved 09:21
SteveAmaybe i'll try on staging...09:21
fabbionewe can do the next one09:21
fabbioneno problem09:21
fabbionejust a sec..09:21
SteveAit's okay.  i'm doing it on staging.09:22
fabbionedecline with this reason:09:22
fabbioneBefore applying to Ubuntu-Server team membership,09:22
fabbioneplease create a wiki page where you describe09:22
fabbionewhat are your interestes in the project and how09:22
fabbioneyou plan to contribute. Thanks.09:22
SteveAfabbione: i can reproduce this on the staging server now.  i can't fix it right away, but i'll file a bug report for salgado to look at when he arrives.  we'll have it fixed for the rollout on tuesday09:25
SteveAthanks for telling me about the bug09:25
fabbioneno problem09:25
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BjornTSteveA: isn't salgado on leave still?09:29
SteveABjornT: you're right, he is, in bolivia.  I'll look to see when he comes back.09:30
UbugtuMalone bug 6453: "admin team membership redirect error" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Guilherme Salgado, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/645309:30
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sivangmorning all09:55
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jameshBjornT: did you accidentally put an LP checkout at /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/launchpad/TicketTrackerEmailInterface ?10:04
jameshor maybe someone else moved it there?10:04
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BjornTjamesh: hmm, it was probably me, then. i'll check what went wrong. thanks.10:05
jameshthe files are owned by you, which means you created them, but anyone could have moved the directory there due to the permissions10:06
BjornTyeah, it seems that my brain wasn't functioning when i updated my scripts for creating new branches...10:12
SteveAthere is no reason why people should be able to write to rocketfuel-built10:17
SteveAlifeless: can you tighten up those permissions please?10:17
jameshSteveA: probably because the parent directory was setgid10:18
jameshso rocketfuel-built inherited the group ownership10:18
lifelessSteveA: ?10:18
jameshlifeless: anyone on the warthogs team can write to the LP tree in /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built10:19
lifelessprobably needs elmo to chgrp it then10:20
lifelessto the pqm group. only root can do that10:20
jameshthe pqm user should be able to10:20
lifelessunix chgrping is a restricted operation10:21
lifelesschmod isn't, chgrp is10:21
jameshif the pqm user is in the warthogs and pqm groups then it should be able to change the ownership10:22
lifelessjamesh: not on linux.10:23
lifelessjamesh: I've just tested in case I was confused, and it failed. 10:23
jameshI seem to be able to do so on my box10:23
jameshchange the group of files I own between groups I am a member of10:24
lifelessanyway, I can trim the permissions, but that will allow new files to be confused. the right thing is a chgroup. 10:24
lifelessSteveA: meeting agenda says next meeting is dec 22nd?10:32
SteveAthe agenda is old10:34
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jameshhi mpt10:37
mpthi jamesh 10:38
jameshmpt: yesterday SteveA was suggesting striking out automatic bug links for closed bugs, similar to what Bugzilla does10:39
jameshmpt: however, in Launchpad it is possible to have a bug that has both open and closed bug tasks10:40
jameshmpt: do you have any opinion on how to handle that case?10:40
sivangjamesh: maybe it beneficial to monitor a bug after it's been closed, in case it's re-discovered upstream? (if I understood right, automatic bug links will get wiped once the bug is closed?)10:42
mptcrossing them out had occurred to me, but the tasks problem hadn't10:42
mptsivang, why would bug links get wiped?10:43
jameshsivang: what we are talking about is the way "bug NNNN" text in bug comments gets turned into a hyperlink to the associated bug10:43
sivangeh, my bad - sorry.10:43
jameshsivang: as an additional visual cue, bugzilla strikes out the "bug NNNN" text if the linked bug has been closed10:44
=== mpt misunderstood sivang's misunderstanding
sivangmpt: lol :)10:44
mptHow's hacking, sivang?10:44
mptGetting your head around the codebase?10:44
sivangmpt: Well, actually, more of waiting for rocketfuel-get to be ready, after I've worked some bits on the RFS wiki page, and daf, jblack and SteveA commented. It appears to be coming nicely, but no yet real hacking on the codebase , I'm afraid.10:45
jameshmpt: one of the suggestions was to only strike out the text if all tasks are closed.  The alternative is to try and decide which task the user cares about10:45
sivangonce it's ready, I wish to use to get a checkout.10:45
dafI think striking out if all tasks are closed is a good compromise10:46
jameshmpt: and the "check if all bug tasks are closed" heuristic works quite well in the common case of a single bug task :)10:46
mptWell, that would be a 90% solution10:46
daftrying to be magic would likely just be confusing and difficult to maintain10:47
mptbut eventually, daf, we'll have some derivatives that are really really slow about fixing bugs10:47
dafhmm, true10:47
dafanother heuristic would be "fixed in the thing it was originally reported against"10:47
sivangmpt: you finshed you're share of HUB drawings ? ;-) (joking, I know you're *very* busy)10:47
=== mpt cries
dafbut you need to deal with cases like it being reassigned after being filed10:48
SteveAif we do this, we should have a very simple rule to start with10:48
SteveAand then choose as we go on to either remove it entirely, or to make the rule better10:48
mptsivang, it's been on my to-do list each day for the past several weeks10:48
dafhow about "if it has one bug task, and that bug task is fixed, strike i tout"10:48
SteveAanother way to do it.. fancier10:48
=== sivang hugs mpt
SteveAis with a div that contains bug metadata that becomes visible when hovering over the bug link10:49
jameshif 50% of the tasks are closed, strike out 50% of the characters in "bug NNNN"10:49
mptso let's start with, if all are fixed, strike it out10:49
sivangjamesh: lol10:49
mptmost bugs now have only one task anyway10:49
mptWell, I was thinking of a dotted strikethrough10:49
SteveAmpt: bjorn said that he thought striking out would mean invalid / rejected10:49
SteveAso, there is a risk that this is meaningful only to people who used bugzilla a lot before10:50
mptSteveA, yeah, that causes me occasional confusion in Bugzilla too10:50
mptso maybe this is something to be solved with the bug's icon10:50
dafgood idea10:50
SteveAlet us not do striking out now10:50
mptin EntityPresentation or whatever it's called10:50
dafalthough I find myself getting confused with the different bug icons we have already10:51
jameshI usually think of the strikeout similar to striking something off a todo list10:51
mptcurrently we have:10:51
mpt* colors for priorities10:51
dafa variety of subtly different;y-coloured insects10:51
mpt* blue for external bug watches10:51
mptthat's all.10:51
jameshit is useful in the bug dependency lists of tracker bugs like https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504110:51
UbugtuFreedesktop bug 5041: "7.1 Release Tracker" Product: xorg, Component: Release, Severity: blocker, Assigned to: xorg-team@lists.x.org, Status: NEW https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504110:51
mptyes, it makes such lists easier to scan10:52
mptthough, greying out could do a similar job10:52
mptbut then, Bugzilla uses grey for Unconfirmed10:52
mptthis needs a spec!10:53
SteveAmpt: maybe not different colours of the same icon, but the same icon *glowing* more brightly in a different colour10:53
SteveAso someone looking in b/w can see the distinction still10:53
SteveAfrom the glow10:53
sivangmaybe instead of a strikeout we can have an exclemeation mark, that links to a list of how many of the related bug tasks are still open? and have a color ranging from red->>green indicating the 'shape' the bug is?10:53
sivangred meaning still a way to go, greener meaing getting there..10:53
mptSteveA, the current bugs have different numbers of dots on their backs for that purpose10:53
mpt1 dot = low10:53
mpt2 dots = medium10:53
mpt3 dots = high10:54
dafhigh what? severity?10:54
jameshremember that this is going to be inline with the bug comment, so it shouldn't be too distracting.10:54
SteveAi had not noticed at all10:54
jameshit should provide some important information at a glance without interrupting you as you read the comment10:54
mptmaybe major bugs should be scarier10:55
mptcockroaches vs. moths10:55
=== sivang tries to fidn the dots.
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dayyan_hbbanyone can tell me?10:59
dayyan_hbbi ve visited and fill the form from shipit.ubuntu.com...to send me the copy of ubuntu11:00
SteveAhello dayyan_hbb 11:00
dayyan_hbbbut it has been 3 month i've got nothing11:00
SteveAwhat country are you in?11:00
dayyan_hbbcan you help me?... i'll try ubuntu in my school11:01
SteveAi can look into it.  but also, you can request some more CDs anyway.11:02
SteveAi will ask for your details in a private message11:02
dayyan_hbbyes ..11:02
dayyan_hbbor may i send u email... now?11:03
SteveAah... i think freenode might be stopping you from seeing my message11:03
dayyan_hbbups... i'm forget.. if it's OK, May i have about 20 - 30 CDs.. because i've promote ubuntu to my friends in other school and they are interested in installing ubuntu in their school11:08
ddaasabdfl: "manage our personal APT branches in Launchpad"?11:17
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lifelessddaa: hct ?11:47
ddaayou mean s/APT/HCT/ ?11:48
lifelessapt is binary11:48
lifelessbut there will be personal apt repos driven by hct11:48
ddaayes, but I do not think that ubuntu is THAT MUCH fork and forget that they have multiple APT branches...11:49
ddaahaaa, oooookay!11:49
lifelessis there some way to get __module__ from a function?11:49
ddaaI vaguely recall that epydoc was using inspect for that11:51
ddaaso I needed to monkey patch it so it would do what I tell it to.11:51
lifelessinspect.getmodule(foo) - right11:51
ddaaBut some people say that inspect is evil11:52
lifelessmeh, in the stdlib - will do for me11:52
ddaaand it's downright confused (broken) by symlinked situations11:52
SteveAif you try to get source code11:52
SteveAwell, it may not be available11:52
SteveAfor example, you may have only .pyc files11:52
lifelessit should not need that to do get_module() thought11:53
lifelessalso, we dont support shipping bzr as .pyc, so that should not be much of a concern11:53
ddaaneither should it need to to tell me on which line some func was defined11:53
lifelessthis is library symbol deprecation decoration11:53
ddaabtw, it seems that functions do have  __module__ attribute11:54
lifelessdo they ? ah phew11:54
ddaaactually... the thing with epydoc is that I was cloberring it to control epydoc, and epydoc insisted on inspect11:55
SteveAusing inspect ought to be fine11:55
lifelesswhat I actually want is the fully qualified python name for the thing11:55
SteveAand is clearer than getting __thing__ attrs directly11:55
ddaaso I had to make it more stupid so it would do what I wanted11:55
lifelessbut that does not seem to be trivially accessible.11:55
ddaaI'd love to have the subscribe actions in the subscribers portlet12:05
ddaaI'm frustrated every time I want to subscribe a bug, here's how my brain works:12:06
ddaa1. find the subscribers portlet12:06
ddaa2. look for my name in the subscribers12:06
ddaa3. not me, want to subscribe... where's the link???12:06
ddaa4. panic12:06
ddaa5. ha... yes that's an action, that's on the other column bummer12:07
ddaa6. okay, that block here is action... "Link to CVE", "Mark as Duplicate"... "Subscribe"!12:08
ddaa7. Click12:08
ddaaSteps 4, 5 and 6 and entirely uncessary12:08
Seveasyou panic too easily :)12:10
ddaaNo, seriously, if just one person says "me too", I'll file that as a bug.12:10
dafwhat's the bug -- "subscribe link is too hard to find?"12:11
BjornTonce there was a subscribe link in the portlet, not sure why it was removed. i think it would be good to have a subscribe link near the subscribers list.12:13
ddaaSomething like that.12:13
dafI suppose it wouldn't be bad to have a duplicate link in the portlet12:13
jameshhere's another UI issue (already filed a bug about it):12:13
daflet's ask mpt when he comes back12:13
ddaaAlso, I guess, action portlet is too hard to read.12:14
jamesh1. try to link a URL to a bug that already has URLs linked to it12:14
jamesh2. now try to do the same to a bug that doesn't have URLs linked to it12:14
ddaaCould probably use some more vertical space.12:14
ddaajamesh: what does "link a URL to a bug"?12:15
ddaawhat does that mean?12:15
jameshddaa: you can associate a URL with a bug12:15
jameshlet me find an example12:16
ddaause case!12:16
ddaatell me a story uncle james!12:16
jameshhttps://launchpad.net/bugs/1662 has a URL associated with it (see the portlet on the right)12:18
UbugtuMalone bug 1662: "CVE numbering changes" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/bugs/166212:18
ddaaSoyuz took all the vertical space, that's why there's none in Launchpad.12:18
jameshthere is an "Add" link in the portlet to add extra URL references, but the whole portlet goes away if there are none.12:18
ddaaDuh... the "related web links" portlet is also on the wrong column!12:20
dafjamesh: presumably these URLs were added before the bug was born12:21
BjornTjamesh: well, i think that's because someone thought that adding URL to bugs was crack ;) even if there was a subscribe link in the portlet, i would still expect to find it in the actions portlet.12:21
dafthere is an argument that you can just add URLs in a comment12:22
ddaaBjornT: Agreed, it's useless. The same effect is achieved by putting the link in the description.12:22
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zygacarlos: hello12:26
carloszyga, hi12:26
zygacarlos: I plan to do some catch up in the next few days regarding the gnome sync12:27
zygahas there been any progress with that?12:27
carloszyga, no, sorry12:27
carlosholidays and other critical fixes...12:27
zygaexactly :-)12:27
zygacarlos: has there been any progress on implementing search in rosetta?12:28
carloszyga, nothing outside the spec we wrote 12:28
zygacarlos: are the exports working properly/12:29
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matsubaragood morning!12:30
carloszyga, they should work, yes, but there are some bugs still around12:30
zygacarlos: are you planning any export soon?12:31
ddaaBTW is there any reason, besides "it's not done yet", why the "subscribe link" does not use JS to POST the subscription form?12:31
ddaaI understand why subscription should be done by post, and why it should look like a link, but I think the extra click is just annoying.12:32
ddaanot to mention the extra page loading12:33
zygacarlos: the package list distro/lang is corrputed :/12:33
dafddaa: I think that is an excellent idea, and certainly worth filing a bug about12:33
carloszyga, ?12:33
zygacarlos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/pl12:34
ddaadaf: one caveat is that I'm not really sure that you can do that sort of thing with JS (out of sheer ignorance).12:34
zygaI can make a screenshot if you'd like12:34
zygathe right float corrupts the list12:34
carloszyga, yeah, we are fixing those pages to fit inside the new layout12:35
dafddaa: yes, you can12:35
zygacarlos: ok, great12:35
dafLaunchpad doesn't use any stuff like this yet, but we should12:35
ddaadaf: okay, will file a bug12:36
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zygacarlos: hum, what is a translator supposed to do when the msgid contains an entity and that entity is not escaped, thus, hard to type (unless you know the entity in question)?12:45
zygacarlos: I'm looking at the ™ sign that got displayed as small 'tm'12:45
mptzyga, copy and paste?12:46
BjornTmpt: i'm finishing off FormLayout. can you give an example of a field which is automatically converted to lowercase?12:46
zygampt: not good12:46
dafjamesh: did you say you'd fixed the tests that had 2005 hardcoded into them?12:46
mptBjornT, any of the "this will be used in an URL" fields, e.g. product name, project name, distro name12:46
zygampt: the msgstr should contain ™ not the unicode character that corresponds to this character12:46
mptzyga, so the "English:" row should be showing "™" but it's showing TM instead?12:47
dafthat's a problem with the original package, not Rosetta, I think12:47
zygampt: exactly12:47
mptthat's a bug12:47
dafRosetta escapes entities, I'm pretty sure12:48
zygaI'll check the source12:48
mptiirc I ran past the bugmail from that bug today, closed due to lack of reproducability12:48
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lifelessSteveA: how does pydoc generate the text for the right hand side of functions it lists:12:50
lifelessbzrlib.get_bzr_revision = decorated_function(*args, **kwargs)12:50
lifelessseems ugly, and an unintended side effect of function decoration12:50
jameshdaf: yeah.  There was only one that caused a problem.12:50
ddaabug 645712:51
UbugtuMalone bug 6457: "Subscribe should work in one click" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/645712:51
dafjamesh: cool12:51
ddaaalso bug 645612:51
ddaabug 645612:51
UbugtuMalone bug 6456: "Subscribe actions are too hard to find" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/645612:51
zygaddaa: doesn't amazon have a patent on one click stuff? :)12:51
ddaazyga: we are not e-commerce, Amazon does not give shit about us.12:52
kikoddaa, I think zyga was joking12:52
zygampt: it's not a bug the original template does contain 'tm' 12:53
ddaasorry, I fail to find patents funny...12:53
dafI'm not sure US patent law would apply to us12:53
BjornTmpt: ok, it seems that no conversion is done today, though. i'll take a look at how to do it.12:53
mptBjornT, there was one I remember, Morgan Collett implemented a back-end validator for it12:54
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mptzyga, so it's a bug in the original package?12:55
kikoheya stub12:55
zygampt: I think that text might come from glade, someone probably copied the 'tm' from the char palette12:56
mptzyga, if characters like that should never appear in templates, report a bug that Rosetta should ignore strings containing them on import12:56
mpt(so that people can still translate the other strings while the developers fix the wonky characters)12:57
zygampt: it works okay but you need to manually copy-paste :/12:57
mpt(and by "ignore" I mean "ignore and whine", not "silently ignore")12:57
dafyo stub12:57
kikohow's it going man12:57
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BjornTmpt: ah, now i found it. nothing that can be used, though :( and actually, i think the validator will complain on the capital letters before it gets converted...12:58
SteveAlifeless: function decoration has some unintended side effects.12:58
lifelessSteveA: yes. We're planning on using it in bzrlib to document api deprecation12:59
lifelessSteveA: thats the only wart I've found so far12:59
dafmeeting o'clock!12:59
SteveAwelcome to the launchpad development meeting12:59
lifelessits a meeting12:59
SteveAwho's here today?12:59
stubkiko: Good enough. Bit of a break :)01:00
kikome of course01:00
SteveAkiko: salgado still on vacation in bolivia?01:00
kikoyeah, till the end of next week SteveA 01:00
SteveAkinnison is back monday01:00
lifelessspiv is still on leave01:00
=== mpool [n=mbp@] has joined #launchpad
SteveAback monday, i think01:01
mpoolhi all01:01
=== mpt yawns
kikohey mpool 01:01
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SteveA * Roll call01:01
SteveA * Agenda01:01
SteveA * Next meeting01:01
SteveA * Activity reports01:01
SteveA * Items from last meeting01:01
SteveA * Production / staging (stub)01:01
SteveA * Requiring tests for merges. (RobertCollins)01:01
SteveA * UI coordination (SteveAlexander)01:01
SteveA * Keep, Bag, Change01:02
SteveA * Three sentences01:02
SteveAthis is quite a short agenda01:02
SteveAanything else needed today?01:02
ddaaOh, completely forgot about that :)01:02
SteveAitems from the last meeting...01:02
SteveAi didn't write it up :-(  01:02
SteveAso, let's move onwards01:03
=== daf volunteers to summarise this week's meeting
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SteveAwow, thanks daf01:03
SteveAnext meeting01:03
kikodaf, I have about 3000 mails to read, wanna read them for me too? 8)01:03
SteveAi'll be in london next week, at some meetings01:04
kikoI guess er means no01:04
dafI don't think I have your mail-reading superpowers01:04
SteveAi'll try to make this meeting, but i'm not sure i'll have time01:04
SteveAif not, kiko, can you run next week's meeting?01:04
SteveAsame time, 12UTC, on the 12th jan ?01:04
=== ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : launchpad.net | developer meeting: Thur 12 Jan, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs are here: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
SteveAit is done01:05
SteveA * activity reports01:05
mptup to date01:05
=== cprov here (sorry)
=== SteveA is up to date, starting after the vacation
jblackout of date01:05
BjornTi'm up to date01:05
bradbup to date01:05
matsubaraup to date01:05
stubUp to date I think01:05
dafup to date01:05
jameshI'm not.01:05
gneumanup to date01:05
kikoI only sent one for yesterday, so..01:05
=== cprov is up to date (apart of xmas/new year days)
=== sivang was late, now here
SteveA * Production / staging (stub)01:07
sivang(had something in the office)01:07
stubStaging is getting daily code updates. The database was synced to production over the break.01:07
stubI'm unsure if a production update is needed next week. I'll trawl the commits list tomorrow (when I'm back from leave) and make a call then, unless anyone has strong opinions and can save me the bother.01:07
SteveAstub: i want to do the bugzilla migration next week01:07
SteveAthere are various things that must be rolled out for that01:07
carlosSteveA, I'm here, sorry. I was distracted01:07
stubI have breezy upgrades tentatively scheduled for next week at the moment01:08
ddaaspring already, bugs start migrating away from the tropics01:08
SteveAalso, there is a bug in the team management UI that should be fixed01:08
carlosI'm a week behind01:08
SteveAstub: do you want to do the breezy upgrades before the bugzilla migration?01:08
stubIs bugzilla migration ASAP? If so, I'll reschedule the breezy upgrades01:08
SteveAi'm wary of pushing the bugzilla stuff back much more01:09
SteveAas it is already delayed much01:09
SteveAall the pieces are in place for it01:09
sivangSteveA: using malone instead of bugzilla means Soyuz also has to be operational ?01:09
SteveAsivang: no01:09
carlosstub, also, you have some patches into your review queue that must be merged into production as soon as possible01:09
carlosstub, are related with timeouts01:09
stubok. If james is ok with the schedule, we will do bugzilla by wednesday.01:09
SteveAah yes01:09
SteveAstub: you have emails from me about timeouts01:10
SteveAi disabled translation suggestions in production01:10
sivangSteveA: ok, some emails on the ml suggested these go together, however I probably misunderstood.01:10
kikostub, that sounds good.01:10
kikostub, is gina running on a cronjob yet?01:10
SteveAcarlos has worked to improve the code / queries for these things01:10
SteveAso carlos' changes need to land, so that we can turn suggestions back on01:10
stubkiko: I think so... 01:10
=== stub goes and checks
SteveAalso, jamesh's initial bug contacts script should run in production today or tomorrow01:11
stubWhat is the initial bug contacts script?01:11
SteveAstub: i turned off two cron jobs -- karma cache updater and stats updater01:12
jameshstub: it is to migrate the initial contacts from bugzilla to Launchpad01:12
jameshstub: so that the right people get email when new bugs get filed on Ubuntu01:12
SteveAif we run that now, distro people won't "lose" bugs that people eagerly file in launchpad01:12
stubkiko: Gina is running daily on -updates, -security, -backports and dapper01:13
SteveAbefore we have done the migration01:13
kikostub, thanks man.01:13
stubjamesh: Does it rely on any of bradb's work that got backed out accidently?01:13
jameshstub: only bradb's bug status changes were backed out -- the initial contacts stuff looks like it is in production01:14
bradbIt is in production.01:14
kikoand the status migration will happen later01:14
cprovstub: btw, did we discover why those changes get backed out by my last commit ?01:15
SteveAcprov: not as of yesterday.  lifeless may know more01:15
cprovSteveA: ok, I'm kind of concerned ...01:16
lifelessno, its definately a bad base selection, but we dont have enough info to reproduce or identify the cause01:16
stubok. So first issue is to update production, then run initial bug contacts scripts, then perform bugzilla bug migration01:16
SteveAstub: so, do we have a plan for production?  carlos' suggestions patch, a fix for team membership pages, run jamesh's initial contacts script, bugzilla migration next week01:16
lifelessjamesh has been looking at it01:17
kikostub, note that when we perform the bugzilla bug migration we need to disable the ubuntu bugzilla entirely01:17
SteveAright.  we need to coordinate with admins for that01:17
kiko(to avoid people still commenting or changing bugs there)01:17
stubThere are  patches in my review queue that are important. Can we leave the production update until Tuesday, giving me tomorrow and the weekend to land those patches?01:17
jameshlifeless: I've got no clue about how it happened -- just that the backouts definitely occurred with cprov's merge.01:17
SteveAthere is a document on this process01:17
SteveAand any further notes on it should go in that doc01:17
stubkiko: Not my department ;)01:17
lifelessjamesh: yes, I know.01:18
kikostub, well, I'm just pointing out that that needs to be done at the same time as the production run -- I will help coordinate01:18
cprovjamesh: but not inside that specific branch, as I've verified too.01:18
jameshcprov: yep.  That's what I found too.01:18
kikocprov, it happened during pqm's merge, but damned if I know how a bad base selection can revert patches applied.01:19
kikothat has to be a pretty catastrophic base01:19
dafall our base are belong to pqm01:19
SteveAthe current agenda item is Production / Staging01:19
SteveAstub: anything else on that?01:19
jameshstub: that sounds fine.  01:20
ddaakiko: picking a base on rocketfuel that's not in the branch being merged would do that.01:20
SteveAplease focus on the meeting.  i can add an agenda item for the bzr mystery.01:20
SteveAstub: anything else on that?01:20
stubSteveA: That should do01:20
SteveA * Requiring tests for merges. (RobertCollins)01:20
lifelessSteveA: this was covered in the last meeting.01:21
SteveA  * UI coordination (SteveAlexander)01:21
ddaacare to remind?01:21
SteveAgo ahead lifeless 01:21
ddaa(as there was no summary for last meeting)01:21
SteveA(rub it in ddaa! ;-) )01:21
lifelessthe review team are now requiring 'reasonable' test coverage for branches as part of the things they check01:21
ddaaplease expand on "reasonable"01:22
lifelessddaa: if its unreasonable, you'll know.01:22
SteveAfeel free to discuss the kind of tests you intend to use with a reviewer01:22
lifelesscommon sense essentially. The reviewers are here to ensure that code going into the trunk is of good quality; tests are part of that quality.01:23
lifelessanyone on the review team should be able to help you guys if you need assistance in testing.01:23
lifelessbut the key thing is - *expect* that untested code will get hauled up during review.01:23
ddaaI'd like that test that just do "import foo" be considered unreasonable. That properly tested by just doing the import in the test module root.01:24
ddaalifeless: you know who I am picking at :)01:24
lifelessddaa: yes, and its not really relevant right here and now01:24
SteveAi want to move on01:24
SteveA  * UI coordination (SteveAlexander)01:24
SteveAi've been working with various people on launchpad UI, and I'm having regular conversations with mark about it01:25
SteveAthe launchpad UI in general has improved a lot lately.  i've had positive comments from members of the distro team, and mark has had such comments too01:25
SteveAwell done to all who work on UI in launchpad01:25
mpoolhear hear01:26
kikothat must mean everybody01:26
=== kiko pats himself on the back
=== ddaa grumpily thinks it's sort of a tla->baz UI improvement
=== stub denies any responsibility
SteveAI want to keep helping out with the UI, and making connections between mark's plans, users' needs, specs and code01:27
SteveAi need some help to do this01:27
SteveAspecifically, when there are UI discussions on irc or in person, please post a summary to the mailing list01:27
SteveAor invite me to take part in the discussions01:27
stubDoes this cover the 'new look', and we won't be reverting to the plone-look?01:27
ddaawhat about just filing a bug?01:27
sivangSteveA: I am very interested in helping on that, as much as I can at the moment.01:28
kikostub, I think we won't be reverting, no. do you miss it?01:28
SteveAif there are UI features and workflows specced out, have a discussion (involving me in some way please) before changing the spec01:28
SteveAsivang: that's great.  let me know if there are specific things you want to be involved in01:28
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stubkiko: No - just that it was a major change and if it is going to be vetoed by anyone, the sooner the better01:29
SteveAddaa: file a bug about UI stuff, but consider subscribing me to it01:29
SteveAmatthew is still our UI and usability guru01:29
kikostub, I think mark is pleased with where it's going.01:29
sivangSteveA: sill do, thanks.01:29
sivangkiko: it's very slick IMHO right now01:29
SteveAmatthew and I will be talking on voip calls a lot over the coming months01:29
sivanga very big improvemnt01:30
ddaaIt would be great if specs had more UI coverage. Mock-ups, message texts, etc.01:30
SteveAand sorting out where we're going with UI and workflow as a whole01:30
sivangmaybe we should include a mandatory section in a spec , UI :-) and nag people who forget to work it01:30
sivangor help them to work it out if they need some help01:30
ddaaand other articles in the same serie01:31
SteveAso, this agenda item is all about this: keep matthew and me involved in UI discussions.  involve us in UI discussions and decisions.01:31
kikoddaa, we've done that before, though perhaps the UI was not done with the appropriate consideration for design principles <wink> 01:31
SteveAany other questions or points?01:31
bradbSteveA: one thing01:32
SteveA * Keep, Bag, Change01:32
bradbSteveA: Who needs to signoff on UI changes to a spec?01:32
sivangmaybe we could use the users list / distro team to give feedback on UI changes as well01:32
sivang(before there is a change done)01:32
SteveAbradb: me or matthew01:32
dafbag: timeouts01:33
SteveAkiko can too01:33
SteveA * Keep, Bag, Change01:33
dafbag: timeouts01:33
kikodaf, that may be misunderstood :)01:33
dafgood point :)01:33
jblackKeep: Send email followups01:34
kikochange: making it clear that error reports and timeouts are only unique within a single day.01:34
SteveAi'm going to do a 5s countdown on keep, bag, change, and then we can discuss 01:34
jameshdaf: you'd prefer the requests to continue forever?01:34
ddaaBag: insane rosetta error spam01:34
bradbchange: make error reports web accessible01:34
kikojamesh, that's the misunderstanding I meant01:34
kikobradb, that's in the queue01:34
ddaaChange: SM error reporting, somehow01:34
SteveAin order...01:34
dafjamesh: no, that we should make an effort to make all pages load within the timeout period01:34
SteveAdaf: kiko wants to talk timeouts in a second01:34
kikoI need stub's help 01:35
jameshkiko: after the next rollout, OOPS IDs will be unique within a given 1 month period.01:35
SteveAjblack: what do you mean "email followups"? 01:35
ddaaChange: more launchpad-errors topics!!01:35
dafjamesh: cool!01:35
kikothanks jamesh -- and hopefully a web-generated reference will be eternally unique01:35
jblackIrc conversations, pings without response. Keep sending emails about that sort of things so details aren't lost in scrollback01:35
stubddaa: Indeed. They all got nuked for no known reason and have not been recreated.01:35
SteveAokay.  so i reiterate kiko's call last month01:35
SteveASEND EMAIL!01:35
SteveAkiko change: making it clear that error reports and timeouts are only unique within a single day.01:36
SteveAkiko: we're adding a day-of-month to OOPS reports01:36
lifelessddaa: SM error reporting ?01:36
jblackalready resolved.01:36
jblackalready agreed, that is01:36
kikoand a web-reference would be globally unique? (i.e. include the date in the URL path?)01:36
ddaalifeless: talked about that with jblack yesterday, plan to write an email with my wishes01:36
SteveAyes, the web reference is the path reference01:36
lifelessI thought it was a standard TODO rather than something done but wrong.01:36
lifelessddaa: please do.01:37
SteveAit is totally unique01:37
kikoI just want to make sure that we can find the damned oops months after the bug is filed.01:37
jameshkiko: I'm going to put together a CGI script for accessing the error reports on chinstrap01:37
kikothanks 01:37
ddaalifeless: I would just like some sort of really CRUDE error reporting on the launchpad-errors mailing list, just to have SOMETHING.01:37
jameshkiko: which would give a permanent URL01:37
dafjamesh: heh, I was about to do that :)01:37
SteveAokay, hold up01:37
SteveAlet's get organized01:37
SteveAany Keep, Bag, Change points still outstanding?01:37
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SteveAi mean, ones already raised01:37
SteveAthat we don't understand yet01:37
mpt_sorry, got disconnected01:37
stubI've added ddaa's request to my todo list01:38
SteveAok, cool01:38
SteveA kiko: timeouts01:38
kiko99.4% of our users have reported in an internal poll that timeouts are currently the most critical issue affecting launchpad01:38
kikoand the sab himself pronounced himself on the issue yesterday01:39
ddaastub: BTW a "anything else" topic that matches nothing would be useful.01:39
sivangkiko: sab ?01:39
kikosaying that the current situation is unacceptable, and that we need to find a way to improve this in the very short term.01:39
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stubddaa: There is a specific option for saying 'give me messages that match no topic'01:39
dafsivang: Mark01:39
sivangright :)01:39
ddaastub: yes, but that only works if at least one topic is selected...01:40
kikostub, are there any things we could do that would give us a general improvement?01:40
kikomark has suggested postgresql 8.1.1, for instance01:40
SteveAddaa: stay on topic01:40
kikoimproving the hardware on emperor01:40
stubkiko: Some steps have already been taken - disabling karma and various cache generation code. We get more timeouts when they are running01:40
kikodatabase replication/mirroring01:40
stubPostgreSQL 8.0 will be an improvement01:41
stubPostgreSQL 8.1 would also be an improvement, but we arn't ready to do that yet.01:41
dafwe could run karma/translation stats code on a replicated DB01:41
dafless contention01:41
kikostub, yeah, but we're still getting timeouts, and from the look of it, it's happening all over01:41
kikowe're going to move the distro team onto malone next week01:41
kikowhat happens when nobody can access malone because everything times out?01:42
SteveAkiko, stub: we need to discuss this after the meeting01:42
stubkiko: There may be some rogue queries - there is an email from elmo re: load on emperor01:42
dafwhat's blocking a postgres upgrade?01:42
SteveAbecause there is no clear resolution to the discussion right now, and we need to do 3 sentences01:42
kikookay -- final call on the topic: please concentrate on fixing any outstanding, critical performance bugs, in the next 2 weeks.01:42
SteveAwe will continue "timeouts" immediately after the meeting01:42
SteveA* Three sentences01:42
stubdaf: bugzilla rollout now, as that bumped the breezy upgrade until later (PostgreSQL 8 will be done as part of the breezy upgrade)01:42
ddaaDONE: vacation01:43
ddaaTODO: catch up, deploy bzrsyncd, OptionalBranchTitle01:43
ddaaBLOCKED: no01:43
sivangTODO: 1)Help matsubara reproduce OOPS issue when registering a couple of specs in a row. 2) test rocketfuel-get when it's done.01:43
sivang3) if (2) successful, find some  launchpad dev and bribe him to show show me around the mountain.01:43
BjornTDONE: reduced the number of statuses in the support tracker. fixing bugs. finished implementing TicketTrackerEmailInterface. added most of the implementation section to FormLayout. started on SupportTrackerViews implementation.01:43
sivangDONE: Tried to get some rocketfuel, found some glitches in the howto wiki page, made some comments (worked with daf and jblack on that). helped some users question on the IRC channel.01:43
matsubaraDONE: holiday break, implemented canned search for bugs someone commented on, some bug triage01:43
BjornTTODO: vacation01:43
matsubaraTODO: finish the above, more bug fixing 01:43
matsubaraBLOCKED: nope01:43
BjornTBLOCKED: no01:43
sivangBLOCKED: still , lack of time.01:43
jameshDONE: more preparation for bugzilla import / error reporting stuff / other bug fixing01:43
dafDONE: bug triage, work on Soyuz UI, bug fixage01:43
dafTODO: more bug triage, land fixes, summarise meeting01:43
dafBLOCKED: no01:43
jameshTODO: bugzilla migration / error reporting stuff / code reviews01:43
jameshBLOCKED: no01:43
jblackDONE: supermirror devel, bzr-help submission, bzr support01:43
jblackDONE: rocketfuel docs01:43
carlosDONE: #5751 and #641001:43
lifelessDONE: bzr deprecation support, many reviews, bzr update for lp01:43
lifelessTODO: too much to list01:43
lifelessBLOCKED: Zope3 update, SteveA week 701:43
SteveADONE: vacation, management, code review01:43
SteveATODO: code review, zope3 update, meetings in London01:43
SteveABLOCKED: no01:43
gneumanDONE: catch up 01:43
kikoDONE: Get back on top of email, continue evaluating Soyuz deployment testing, general management01:43
kikoTODO: Soyuz deployment, concentrating on getting timeouts nailed, perhaps fixing a bug or two01:43
kikoBLOCKED: not ultimately blocked on anything, but it could stop raining01:43
jblackTODO: Rocketfuel doc testing, bzr support, bzr doc fixes01:43
carlosTODO: Fix poimport script, finish POMsgSetPage01:43
jblackBLOCKED: none01:43
carlosBLOCKED: no01:43
gneumanBlocked: need revisor01:43
bradbDONE: Mostly finished BugStatusChangesAsComments.01:44
bradbTODO: Submit BugStatusChangesAsComments for review. Fix performance bugs while waiting for review. Bugzilla migration firefighting, hopefully.01:44
bradbBLOCKED: No.01:44
gneumanTODO: few nore content fields01:44
cprovDONE: merged old buildd/soyuz ui + dogfood soyuz deployment test01:44
cprovTODO: continue soyuz rollout (sorting scoring build)01:44
cprovBLOCKED: none01:44
dafstub: presumably breezy has 8.0 rather than 8.1, which would keep us from upgrading to that01:44
stubDONE: developer exceptions, leave01:44
stubTODO: bugzilla migration, timeout issues, production breezy upgrade01:44
stubBLOCKED: time01:44
SteveAdaf: stay on topic please01:44
jblackstevea: Note, I gave two done lines01:44
stubdaf: Yes, although we can get 8.1 into backports I suspect. More that it is very new.01:45
SteveAi don't see any blockers except gneuman's "need revisor"01:45
SteveAgneuman: please write BLOCKED in future, for ease of grepping later01:45
lifelessSteveA: and mine01:45
SteveAoh yea01:45
SteveAwe just talked about that in privmsg01:46
lifelessSteveA: bit of a blind spot ? :)01:46
SteveAtoo much testing can have that effect, i hear01:46
mpoolDONE: vacation catchng up, plan travel01:46
SteveAokay, it's a wrap... and we've overrun by 2 mins.  sorry about that.01:46
mpoolTODO: more design replies, 0.7rc1 release01:46
mpoolBLOCKED: no01:46
sivangmpool: just in time :)01:47
kikogood ole SteveA, as reliable as a clock01:47
SteveAcontinuing the timeouts discussion...01:47
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lifelessSteveA: setting __name__ helps pydoc01:47
=== sivang is off for some more office work
SteveAjamesh will be implementing "soft timeouts"01:47
SteveAwhere we'll get a warning in the OOPS logs01:47
SteveAof when requests are approaching timeout01:47
ddaastub: so, as I said, you can only use the "send message matching no topic" if you have at least one topic selected.01:48
ddaastub: therefore a "Nothing" topic is useful to get "Anything else" behaviour.01:48
stubddaa: I caught that. I'll add it.01:48
kikostub, SteveA: when can we reconvene and talk performance?01:48
SteveAwe can go to #c-m where it is quieter01:49
kikoor #launchpad-performance01:49
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mptcarlos, should all those ".../+translate gave me a timeout" bug reports be duplicates of bug 5751?01:54
mptUbugtu, wake up01:55
mptmalone 575101:55
carlosmpt, usually, yes01:55
UbugtuError: I cannot access this bug.01:55
carlosmpt, if you can see the backtrace and be sure that it's related with suggestions....01:55
mptcarlos, oh, 5751 is private01:55
carlosthat would be better01:55
carlosmpt, yep01:55
mptI haven't figured out what directory backtraces are in yet01:56
kikoin /srv/gangotri-logs01:57
kikoas discussed in email01:57
mptno wonder I couldn't find it01:59
mptthanks kiko, I'll put that on the wiki where it should be :-)02:00
=== mpool [n=mbp@] has left #launchpad ["Leaving"]
bradbstub: ping02:02
carlosdudes, I'm leaving now, will read the email tonight just in case there is something that needs my attention. I will be online next Saturday and Sunday. Cheers.02:02
kikocarlos, okay.02:03
carlosstub, I will try to merge my branches into rocketfuel as soon as I get an answer from your review.02:03
=== carlos -> out
stubbradb: in meeting02:04
bradbstub: ok, when's a good time to discuss targetname cache search with you?02:04
jameshmpt: in scrollback, I saw you said you were having trouble with the new javascript for collapsible fieldsets (e.g. the "Add comment to this bug" link)02:08
=== bradb hits the showers
jameshmpt: do you have any other details?02:08
mptjamesh, I reported a bug on it02:11
mptjamesh, https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/643402:12
UbugtuMalone bug 6434: "Clicking "Add comment to this bug" reloads the page then jumps to the top" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/643402:12
jameshmpt: this is with Safari?02:13
jameshmpt: sounds like the click event isn't being cancelled correctly02:13
mptimo that control should be a checkbox02:14
mptbut it hadn't occurred to me that it would be browser-specific02:16
mptanyway, it's 2.16am and I'm dangeously grouchy, so I'm going to sleep02:16
kikompt, talk to me tonight.02:16
mptkiko, as in how many hours from now?02:17
kikompt, when you wake up02:17
mptjamesh, http://www.irt.org/script/55.htm might be useful02:18
jameshmpt: I'm not sure how that applied.02:20
jameshapplies, even02:20
mptit's how to stop a link from going somewhere02:20
mpt"Add a comment to this bug" is a link that goes somewhere, but shouldn't take effect02:20
jameshmpt: currently the code is being hooked up with addEventListener(), and the callback cancels the default action with event.preventDefault()02:23
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SteveAbug 646602:32
UbugtuMalone bug 6466: "apply underlining of links according to the rules" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/646602:32
dafis there a way to run a single page test?02:40
SteveAit's in the hacking faq i think02:41
SteveA  python test.py --test NAME02:41
dafI cna't find it there02:41
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dafSteveA: hmm, that doesn't seem to work02:46
dafit doesn't run any tests02:46
dafwhen I give it the name of a page test02:46
SteveA.txt too02:48
dafoh, it doesn't find tests lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests02:48
dafonly those in lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/*/02:48
dafthis implies that xx-shipit-reports.txt is not being run02:49
stubbradb: What is the issue with the targetnamecache?02:50
bradbstub: Can we do substring searching on it without killing the search pages?02:50
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bradbstub: ISTR you saying that it might work for a while, but that doesn't seem an ideal assessment to move forward with. :)02:51
stubRight now, yes. It might start giving issues as the number of bugs increases.02:51
stubWe can test it on staging with the bugzilla database migrated.02:52
stubMy gut feeling is that it will be fine until around 30 or 40k bugs.02:53
bradbstub: So just a simple OR + ILIKE tacked onto the search query, or is there a faster way to spell this?02:53
stubBut that is really just a guess02:53
stubAND ILIKE tacked on the end will be best02:54
stubI think ;)02:54
bradbok, I'll try that out, thanks02:54
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SynrGsomeone referred me to a launchpad wiki page, and I saw errors on it, so I dutifully registered with launchpad using my preferred email (not my @debian.org email) to make the changes.  However, now i'm looking at my wiki UserPreferences page and it is for BenArmstrong2.  did i make a mistake? as a DD am I already registered? (presumably under synrg@debian.org?)03:05
sivangSynrG: Ben?? =)03:05
SynrGsivang: you have me at a disadvantage ... apparently you know me.  you are?03:05
sivangSynrG: You recall we talked once, I think on debian-mentors or something like that? about packaging stuff? =) I suppose you know ChrisH as well03:06
sivangman, that was a while back03:06
SynrGah, ok.  you have a better memory than I :)03:07
SynrGand yes, #debian-mentors sounds about right03:07
SynrGand I do know ChrisH03:07
sivangSynrG: regarding your issue, I think daf might know =)03:08
sivang(it's a known one)03:08
SynrGdaf: I await your wisdom on this matter, then03:09
dafduplicate wiki pages?03:09
dafthat implies that Launchpad already automatically registered you once03:09
sivangmaybe due to some import attempts?03:10
dafprobably through your Debian work03:10
SynrGby virtue of me being a DD?03:10
kikopeople need to stop emailing me03:10
SynrGi don't recall initiating it myself03:10
dafit would have been automatic03:10
SynrGthen i don't know my password03:10
dafall you need to do is find the account and merge it with the one you registered03:10
=== SynrG goes to the forgotten password page
sivangdaf: I wonder if this is in the launchpad FAQ03:11
=== cprov -> lunch
dafsivang: it should be03:12
sivanghmm , searching for FAQ gives :03:13
sivang   1. LaunchpadHackingFAQ03:13
sivang   2. LaunchpadProductionFAQ03:13
sivang   3. LaunchpadTeamFAQ03:13
dafSynrG: the forgotten password feature won't work for the automatically created account, since it has no registered emails03:13
dafsivang: time to create one, then :)03:13
sivangTeamFAQ is the user's one? :-)03:13
sivangok then, off I go to do that!03:13
kikoI'm going to try and stick more memory in this little box03:13
SynrGdaf: ah.  then ... to merge?03:13
dafSynrG: https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge/03:13
SynrGdaf: i see both of me at the URL you pasted above03:13
dafah, hmm03:14
dafthat won't work03:14
dafsince you need email for that too03:14
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dafaha, but with my special admin powers I can give the other account an email address03:15
dafLaunchpad suggests synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca03:15
dafbut I can add any one you like03:15
SynrGthat address is the one i use on all packages.03:16
SynrGthe dup account is synergism@gmail.com03:16
SynrGi use that for personal use, web registrations, etc.03:16
SynrGso yes, assign synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca -> synrg03:17
dafok, you should get an email asking you to confirm the nslug address03:17
SynrGand then i can merge03:17
dafyou may want to recover a password for the synrg account and then merge synergism with it03:17
dafrather than the other way around03:18
dafup to you03:18
SynrGand in the merge, which wikiname becomes mine?03:18
SynrGso this makes BenArmstrong2 go away03:18
SynrGif done in that order03:18
dafI think so03:18
SynrGthat's what I want. thanks.03:18
dafif not, I'm sure we can fix it03:18
dafsivang: looks like there isn't a user FAQ03:18
dafsivang: there should be, I think03:18
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sivangdaf: I wonder how many question we already missed :-/ , that should be there..presumably some good deal of those will pop up on launchpad-users03:20
SynrGhm.  it has to get past postgrey first.03:21
dafsivang: do you feel like creating it and adding a question about wiki names with numbers on?03:21
=== SynrG taps his fingers
kikosivang, if I ever get around to announcing the list, you mean03:21
dafwhat's blocking you, kiko?03:21
kikoI'm not sure.. an attitude?03:22
dafyou have an attitude problem?03:22
kikoI need to get my work under control right now I'm riding the hurricane03:22
kikoinbox out of control03:22
kikothousands of threads to read on launchpad lists03:22
kikothe rain depresses me further03:22
kikoanyway, I'll move on with this03:23
dafpoor kiko03:23
kikomemory upgrade03:23
kikoor attempted memory ugrade03:23
kikoit involves using putty knives03:23
kikoyou have something against putty knives?03:23
dafI have reservations about sticking putty knives into computers03:24
kikowe've all got our prejudices03:24
dafdid it have putty on it?03:25
sivangkiko: want me to announce it? where should we announce it anywyas?03:25
=== sivang hugs kiko and cheers him up.
sivangit could get worse - you could be living in the middle east :-D03:26
sivangspeaking of which, are you still planning to visit here on Feb?03:28
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dilysMerge to devel/launchpad: [r=jamesh]  fix bug 2230 by adding a redirect (r2953: Dafydd Harries)03:29
sabdflddaa: i was using APT as an example of an upstream that's already in bzr03:30
SynrGdaf: while impatiently waiting for the confirmation, i checked my mail logs.  glad i did.  i was being hammered by three IP#s which I've now banned at the router. :P03:40
SynrGdaf: hah.  this isn't going to work :)03:41
SynrGTo confirm this address, enter your password.03:41
SynrGso .. to set my password i need an email address ...03:41
SynrGbut to set my email address, i need my password ...03:41
SynrGah, but the forgotten password link does work!03:44
SynrGand after filling it in, and returning to the validate email link, i see:03:45
SynrGThis email address is already registered and validated for your Launchpad account. There's no need to validate it again.03:45
SynrGso, all is good03:45
SynrGdaf: thanks03:45
dafno problem03:45
SynrGand now merged OK03:55
SynrGnow to finally edit the wiki.  whew.03:55
sivangdaf: I haven't been watching to conversation till now, is this always requires manual lauchpad admin intervention, or can we have this our first FAQ item?03:56
sivangdaf: I will do that (responding to your previous question)03:59
dafI think the short answer is... it's complicated04:01
dafdue to the fact that many accounts that people want to merge don't have email addresses04:02
dafwhich prevents merging them04:02
sivangok, so we add a note there that one must contact a launchpad admin to sort that out?04:02
sivangand then outline the procedure?04:03
sivang(e.g. what SynrG had to do on his own regardless of your launchpad admin intervention)04:03
SynrGdaf: erhm, not all OK.  wiki password doesn't match04:03
=== kiko [n=kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #launchpad
SynrGdaf: and wiki isn't providing me with an option to mail me my password (email not set?)04:04
sivangSynrG: what are you trying to edit btw?04:06
kikoSynrG, the wikis accounts are really managed via launchpad04:07
SynrGoops.  should've checked "trivial change"04:11
SynrGoh well.  too late.04:11
SynrGnext time i will04:11
SynrGso, i'm stuck.04:15
SynrGeven with dashboard i can't fix this.  the wiki doesn't know about my email address04:15
SynrGso i can't subscribe to wiki pages04:15
SynrGor edit wiki UserPreferences04:16
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch
=== gneuman is now known as food
dafthe wiki uses the same password as Launchpad04:20
SynrGPasswords don't match!04:24
SynrGClear message04:24
SynrGi know i have typed it correctly.  this is about the fourth try04:24
SynrGsame password as I used to login to launchpad (confirmed a few times, as I have logged in & logged out of launchpad)04:25
SynrGmeanwhile, i've updated some other dashboard things: gpg key validated, etc.04:25
dafhmmm, maybe the wiki thinks you're trying to change your password04:33
dafmoin is clever like that04:38
SynrGdaf: clever in what sense?  like: oh what a clever girl, joanna, your crayon wall mural is magnificent! ?04:40
SynrGi need admin intervention, please04:41
kikoSynrG, what are you trying to do?04:41
SynrGchange something, anything, in my UserPreferences on the wiki04:44
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SynrGthe wiki refuses to allow me, using my dashboard password04:44
SynrGalso, it refuses to mail me my password because it doesn't even present me with a link ...04:45
SynrGand tells me that i haven't got an email address04:45
SynrGwhereas dashboard currently knows two email addresses for me04:45
SynrGe.g. if i try to subscribe to a page, the wiki tells me i have no email address04:47
dafand you're logged in to the wiki?04:48
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=== bradb_ got disconnected at :42, in case anyone cares
SynrGdaf: apparently04:49
dafhow odd04:49
SynrGthe top bar has a link to my name, at least04:49
SynrGthat would suggest i'm logged in04:50
dafwhich email address did you use to log in?04:50
dafyes, that does suggest you're logged in04:50
SynrGeither one.  they're both broken04:50
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dafeither one should work04:51
dafsince you can log into launchpad, that suggests that your account basically works04:52
SynrGand i've just confirmed again.  logging in with either email address breaks.04:52
SynrGso something about how you set the email address broke, i guess.04:52
dafdoes it still say "Passwords don't match!"?04:52
SynrGyes, it does.04:52
SynrGremember, when you set the email address i was emailed to confirm04:53
SynrGbut it wouldn't allow me to confirm because that required a login04:53
dafwhich of course you didn't have04:53
SynrGso i filled out the forgotten password page04:53
SynrGit obliged04:53
SynrGi filled that out04:53
SynrGthen it wouldn't allow me to finish the email address change confirmation04:53
SynrGtold me it was already confirmed04:54
dafby the way, which wiki are you logging in to?04:54
SynrGthe URL to the page i edited is above, about 40 minutes back04:55
SynrGi successfully edited it, btw04:56
dafhmm, if I try to log into the wiki with a wrong password, it says "Sorry, wrong password.04:57
dafthis is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences04:57
kiko-fud 5119 kiko      25   0  182m 174m 2940 R 98.4 17.3  50:37.05 bzr                                       04:57
kiko-fud200mb of bzr04:57
kiko-fudlove's a gig04:57
kiko-fudfood time04:57
SynrGah, but it can't be wrong.  i've logged in and out of dashboard, each time successfully, and several attempts to the wiki, each time with the same password.  dashboard allows me in.  the wiki does not.04:58
SynrGtherefore, the passwords must differ04:58
SynrGsomething which dashboard should not permit04:59
dafif you go to the UserPreferences page on the wiki, does it give you a Logout button near the bottom?04:59
dafkiko-fud: /people/synrg, I think04:59
=== matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara
SynrGs/dashboard/launchpad/ of course04:59
dafI need to go out05:01
SynrGyes. after clicking on that i now see where i can try mail me account data05:01
dafback later05:01
SynrGi will try that05:01
SynrGah.  it just requests that i use launchpad's forgotten password page instead05:02
=== food is now known as gneuman
sivanghow do you spell "mucho" for "alot" in spanish?05:08
sivanggneuman: thanks :)05:11
SynrGby the way, "alot" is neither spanish nor english :)05:11
gneumansivang, np05:19
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dilysMerge to devel/launchpad: Provide a URL to get view the bugs associated with a particular remote bug, fixing bug 4120, r=BjornT (r2954: James Henstridge)05:38
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bradb_kiko-fud: The substring package name search test + fix is in pqm's queue.06:50
=== bradb_ makes food
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kiko-fudbradb_, really? rock and roll!07:13
kiko-fudthat's pretty amazing turnover, bradb_ 07:13
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bradb_kiko: thanks :)07:27
kikois the codec bug in bzr solved in a recent version?07:44
ddaaI'm almost certain it's fixed in the dailies07:45
kikoremind me what the repository for them is, ddaa?07:45
ddaarelease-process wise they seem to have a problem: set too high requirements for the next minor.07:46
kikowe've all got our prejudices07:46
ddaadeb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./07:48
ddaabzr is mpool's, bzr-integration is lifeless'07:49
kikowhat's the difference07:50
ddaawhich is one is the "best" depends on weather, oil prices, and middle east events.07:50
LarstiQsharon has been tipping the balance to integration07:54
kikohe's been tipping into hospital, more realistically07:55
SteveAin my more grandiose moments, i've thought of launchpad as a medium for political and social change07:57
SteveAfor example, simply create the Middle East project, containing Israel and Palestine products07:57
SteveAand file bugs accordingly07:57
SteveAno problems07:57
kikois that what the word "grandiose" means?07:58
ddaaLet's start by  creating a GNU project, a Emacs product, and two series: "main" and "xemacs" :)07:58
kikoI didn't think it meant "mentally incapacitated"07:59
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kikohey sabdf1 08:07
kikoare you mark's evil twin?08:07
kikohey bradb 08:21
kikoand BjornT 08:21
bradbkiko: hi08:21
kikoare you guys aware of the warning that process-mail is raising?08:21
bradbkiko: No.08:21
kiko+DeprecationWarning: IBugTask.maintainer was deprecated as part of InitialBugContacts. Talk to bradb08:21
kiko+about removing this completely from the UI and data model.08:21
kiko  "completely from the UI and data model.", DeprecationWarning)08:21
bradbOh, that's me.08:22
kikoin components/bugtask.py08:22
bradbI'll take that out right now.08:22
kikoyou don't want to fix the callsite instead?08:22
bradbkiko: The issue is that IBugTask.maintainer shouldn't really exist, because it serves to clear purpose.08:23
kikoso fix the callsite, right?08:23
bradbSo, when I say, "I'll take that out", I mean removing IBugTask.maintainer and, of course, callsites.08:23
ddaayou mean, like slashdot?08:23
ddaa(serves no clear purpose)08:24
kikoddaa, slashdot provides you with news that matters!08:24
bradbI'll do it on a separate branch actually.08:24
bradbSlashdot is almost as useful as digg.08:24
ddaaOh, I'll use something else then...08:24
ddaalike the whitespace that takes 50% of the horizontal space of most launchhpad pages?08:25
ddaayeah, that's better troll matter :)08:25
kikowhitespace is an asset08:26
kikowe can use it to sell adverts when we are the most important site on the internet08:26
ddaakiko: I'll go make conversation with King Kong, or Narnia, I think... cya08:26
=== mdke_ is now known as mdke
dilysMerge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/1440 (r2955: Brad Bollenbach)08:52
=== bradb wonders why his merge message got truncated in the subject line of the pqm mail.
=== bradb heads off, later all
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Yann2hi :)10:11
Yann2i'm confronted to (I think) a quite annoyant bug with launchpad10:12
SteveAhello yann10:12
SteveAwhat's up?10:12
Yann2it seems that every time "Yann" (on launchpad) subscribes to a bug, I (Yann Hamon on lauchpad) get automatically subscribed too10:12
SteveAthat's interesting.  i'll take a look...10:13
Yann2is it possible? :)10:13
Yann2for example10:13
UbugtuMalone bug 6476: "fte: merge new debian version" Fix req. for: fte (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/bugs/647610:13
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SteveAkiko: front page of staging is timing out :-(10:14
SteveAkiko: possibly every page on staging is timing out :-(10:15
kikothis is depressing indeed10:15
SteveA    *10:15
SteveARequestExpired: (('SELECT COUNT(*) FROM TeamParticipation WHERE person = 74 AND team = 100',), {})10:15
lifelessonly reason that should be slow is locked tables10:18
SteveAit may be another query before it is almost too slow10:19
SteveAand this one was the last straw10:19
SteveABjornT: is it possible for me to unsubscribe someone from a bug?10:19
SteveAYann2: i've looked into it, and all i can think of is this10:19
SteveAYann2: the user yann-pleiades tries to subscribe himself, and types in "yann" into the subscription UI.  Then, he sees that you, not he, is subscribed.  He cannot unsubscribe you, so he just subscribes himself anyway.10:20
kikoit didn't time out for me10:20
SteveAone solution is that you change your launchpad-name to yann-something rather than just 'yann'10:20
Yann2SteveA > mmh, fact is, i nevere subscribed to any of these bugs :D10:20
Yann2i am yann hamon not yann =)10:21
SteveAi think yann-plieades subscribed you by mistake10:21
kikoyou can subscribe others, but not unsubscribe them10:21
Yann2i'll have a look ^^10:21
SteveAyour name in launchpad is simply "yann", in the URL10:21
kikothe proper fix for this is probably not having CC subscriptions and doing that mpt suggested.10:21
kikoforwarding bug reports.10:21
kikoof course10:21
Yann2actually, yes. hey, cool 8-) :D10:22
kikosalgado's report from a while back already pointed out this problem -- our user matching is too transparent10:22
Yann2so hm, what would you suggest? :)10:22
kikoyeah. it assumes that a single match is a sign it's found a sure bet, when that's not the truth in cases like the above.10:23
Yann2yann-hamon as name instead of yann?10:23
SteveAYann2: change your "name" (as in what is in the URL) to yann-hamon10:23
Yann2here ends my endell hopes of an yann@ubuntu.com email adress :'(10:23
SteveAi'm stevea in launchpad10:23
Yann2-endell +endless10:23
SteveArather than "steve"10:23
Yann2letz take yannh :)10:24
Yann2thanks for help ;)10:25
lifelessSteveA: is the timeout problem going on now ?10:25
SteveAhttps://staging.ubuntu.com/  i'm logged in, times out, OOPS-5S1210:29
SteveAi logged out10:30
SteveAit work10:30
SteveAwhat's it doing when i'm logged in, that makes it take so much time?10:30
SteveAperhaps a flaw in the traceback-display-decision code?10:30
SteveAi am logged in again10:31
SteveAit is working now10:31
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SteveAhow odd10:32
SteveARequestExpired: (('SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Bounty WHERE 1 = 1',), {})10:33
lifelessthere was a 448ms instance of that query that timed out10:33
SteveAthat is from OOPS-5S1210:33
Yann2well, thanks SteveA ... bye :)10:34
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dilysMerge to devel/launchpad: First round of the implementation of MirrorManagement. r=lifeless (r2956: Guilherme Salgado)10:35
lifelessSteveA: interesting :10:37
lifeless<launchpad_staging/launchpad 17203 2006-01-05 21:31:00 GMT>LOG:  statement: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Bounty WHERE 1 = 110:37
lifeless<launchpad_staging/launchpad 17203 2006-01-05 21:31:00 GMT>LOG:  duration: 0.299 ms10:37
lifeless<launchpad_staging/launchpad 17197 2006-01-05 21:31:59 GMT>LOG:  statement: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Bounty WHERE 1 = 110:37
lifeless<launchpad_staging/launchpad 17197 2006-01-05 21:31:59 GMT>LOG:  duration: 12.200 ms10:37
lifelessand earlier still10:38
lifeless<launchpad_staging/launchpad 17203 2006-01-05 21:30:08 GMT>LOG:  statement: SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Bounty WHERE 1 = 110:38
lifeless<launchpad_staging/gina 6137 2006-01-05 21:30:09 GMT>LOG:  duration: 355.126 ms10:38
lifelessthis is a huge variation in time10:38
SteveAthat's very odd10:38
lifelessoh, that lastone is mimatched I think10:39
SteveAbut also, counting the bounties seems to take a long time10:39
SteveAi would have expected it to take less time than that10:39
SteveAoh, it is ms10:39
lifelessyes, the last one was not paired right, dual connections logging at once10:39
SteveAso, 0.299 ms is okay10:39
SteveAwhen jamesh has landed the "record all queries in this request plus times when filing an OOPS" code10:40
SteveAwe'll be able to better understand what caused the problem10:40
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lifelessddaa: ping10:50
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mptGooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!11:58
SteveA_good morning mpt11:58
kikohey mpt11:59
mpthi kiko, you at Async or at home?11:59
kikoat async11:59
mptok, shall I call you there?11:59
kikowill you be available in 12h?12:00
kikoI'd rather talk then if possible, I'm overstretched today12:00
mptmidnight, hmmm12:00
kikootherwise let's do it now12:00
mptI could stay up12:00
mptthat's fine12:00
kikookay, cool.12:00
kikomsg me what number I should dial?12:00

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