LaserJockminghua: we do what we can and at least give as much info as we can12:02
LaserJockminghua: most will understand, and the rest we can ignore ;-)12:02
minghuaLaserJock: yeah, don't even bother to think about that, just focus on what we are capable of.  my impression is that debian-science's response is generally quite positive, won't you think so?12:03
LaserJockminghua: yeah, and actually debian-mentors has been good too. I had a talk with them yesterday12:04
minghuaLaserJock: yeah, that's my attitude for quite some time about debian work (mostly to Chinese users, but that's a different story)12:04
azeemLaserJock: do you know why Li gave up on it?12:04
LaserJockazeem: yes, I emailed him and asked him how it was going and he told me he had given up on Debian and I could have at it12:05
azeemugh, ok12:05
azeemLaserJock: did he have a repo or something, possibly with other stuff as well?12:05
azeemI wanted to get him more involved, but didn't get around really doing so12:06
LaserJockazeem: I'm not sure. He had gausssum at debian-mentors12:06
LaserJockazeem: well, I'm not sure if he gave up on Debian as a whole or just gausssum in Debian12:06
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minghuaazeem, LaserJock: who is this Li you are talking about?  sounds like a chinese guy :-)12:07
LaserJockLI Daobing12:07
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minghuaHmm, I know him :-)12:08
minghuain the IRC/mailing list sense, of course12:09
minghuaso he gave up on debian?  that's news to me12:09
azeemminghua: he did IRC?12:09
azeemdidn't know that12:09
minghuaazeem: very rare, I think.  and probably not on freenode12:09
LaserJockminghua: sistpoty graciously let me have a tiber.tauware.de account so we have some space for MOTUScience stuff. If you think of more stuff please email motu-science or me12:09
minghuawe have a #debian-zh channel on freenode, and there are also IRC servers in China12:10
LaserJockminghua: his exact quote was "How about you take this package? I have no faith for debian-mentors."12:10
LaserJockso I guess it wasn't necessarily in Debian itself12:11
azeemah, ok12:11
minghuaLaserJock: will use motu-science.  and I see you are making good use of your account :-)12:11
azeemso I shall mail him and ask whether he has some other stuff pending12:11
minghuaLaserJock: I see, so probably just "gave up on being a debian package maintainer, then"12:11
minghuaazeem: I know one package he tried to get sponsored many times, but without success.  not related to science, though12:13
LaserJockMy first Debian was a breeze (2 days), but I think that was because of REVU12:13
minghuaazeem: the most recent RFS being http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-mentors%40lists.debian.org/msg41575.html12:14
minghuaazeem: I think I saw at least 4 RFS on debian-mentors for this package without getting one, I can understand his disappointment12:15
azeemyeah, but it is Debian now12:16
azeemah, he took it over12:16
ajmitchthat's because it's easy to let a sponsorship request slip by12:16
minghuaazeem: it is, but he is trying to get new upload in, and that is the part that sucks12:16
minghuaazeem: he basically shows that he is willing to continue maintaining the package and fix bugs, yet no one would sponsor him12:17
Kyralhey MOTU12:17
azeemminghua: I can see how this is hard without having a regular sponsor12:18
Kyralanyone with upload right around who would upload a bugfix for me?12:18
crimsundebdiff url?12:19
KyralMalone 605212:19
UbugtuMalone bug 6052: "Missing library dependencies" Fix req. for: dhcdbd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Fix Committed http://launchpad.net/bugs/605212:19
KyralI attached it12:19
minghuaazeem: exactly.  that's why MOTUScience people are lucky, they have the support of DDs in the MOTU :-)12:19
crimsunKyral: pbuilder's updating, I'll wget in a sec12:20
LaserJockminghua: well, that's actuall something I've been thinking about as well12:20
LaserJockminghua: so far MOTUScience only has one MOTU12:20
=== Kyral wishes there was a "Fix Attached" option in LP
KyralBecause I look at the Status options and I knwo that "Fix Released" doesn't work, so I have to choose betwenn "In Progress" and "Fix Confirmed"12:21
minghuaLaserJock: things are going to become better, I am sure :-)12:21
Kyraland neither of those sound right lol12:21
minghuaLaserJock: will you apply for MOTU soon?12:22
ajmitchah, good to see those 25 zope syncs done12:22
LaserJockminghua: I'm feeling the water ;-)12:22
KyralLJ Should become MOTU12:22
KyralAt least before me lol12:22
=== minghua will apply for membership on 24th's CC meeting :-)
minghualet's see if that goes well12:22
ajmitchLaserJock: it's probably worth it, depending on what others say12:22
LaserJockthe thing is I feel I do more organizational work than technical work12:22
=== ajmitch wonders what he should apply for
=== Kyral wonders if he should raise an issue at the CC Meeting
ajmitchKyral: what issue?12:23
LaserJockajmitch: AjmitchIsGod wiki page12:23
ajmitchLaserJock: don't be stupid12:23
KyralI was thinking about making a spec to deal with low performance systems12:23
ajmitchwhy would you need to take something to the CC?12:23
=== Kyral shrugs
LaserJockKyral: lol, just so you can get GTKEdit into universe? ;p12:23
KyralLaserJock: no actyallu12:24
KyralI ran into this with my laptop12:24
crimsunKyral: built, uploaded.12:24
KyralGNOME is sluggish on it12:24
minghuaGTKEdit?  the notepad clone with gtk 1.x?12:24
LaserJockKyral: how about xubuntu?12:24
crimsunKyral: that's pretty much what Jani's doing with Xubuntu12:24
Kyralcrimsun: I mean like LOW performance machines12:24
=== ajmitch found gnome slow also, until the new laptop arrived ;)
crimsunKyral: low being < 64 MB RAM?12:25
LaserJockminghua: right, he packaged it. It's on REVU12:25
ajmitchthe p2-400 I was using at UDU was a bit of a clunker12:25
Kyralcrimsun: yah12:25
crimsunKyral: I hope you're thinking of directFB or something, because anything with that little RAM will have a beast of a time running X Window System.12:25
minghuaKyral: do you have gtk 2.x at all?  what desktop/window manager do you use?12:25
minghuahonestly I don't see the advantage of gtkedit over leafpad, unless you still run GNOME 1.x12:26
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ajmitchlooks like I need a new apt-proxy12:27
Kyralminghua: my production box (this desktop) is a Athlon XP 2700+ at 2.3GHz w/512 MB RAM12:27
Kyralyet I run Flux lol12:27
LaserJockKyral: at least do Openbox instead of Flux ;-)12:28
Kyralbut my laptop is a 3 year old thing that is 256 MB Ram and Celeron12:28
tsengLaserJock: david.chalkskeletons.com/openbox.html12:28
Kyralwhy Openbox?12:28
minghuaKyral: have you tried leafpad?  I suppose loading gtk 2.x won't slow fluxbox significantly12:29
LaserJockcause it's better12:29
LaserJocktseng: oh, that's nice ;-)12:29
LaserJockKyral: cause12:29
tsengKyral: 100% less blackbox?12:29
tsengopenbox is all the way about freedesktop stuff12:30
LaserJockKyral: I used to run Flux a lot in my Gentoo days but Openbox was faster, and works with everything12:30
=== Kyral falls down
tsengfluxbox was closer to blackbox for a long time12:30
tsengits gotten more modern12:30
tsengwhat im saying is, running fluxbox in gnome was pretty crappy12:31
LaserJockit's easy to use Openbox in Gnome too12:31
tsengamong other non standardness12:31
Kyraltseng: then don't run it with GNOME12:31
KyralI run it streight up12:31
LaserJockKyral: straight up it's better ;-)12:31
crimsunit was good to sync rxvt-unicode (urxvt) v7.0 - released: 2006-01-1312:31
minghuacrimsun: did you get any words about the octave2.1 sync?12:32
Kyralso GTK2 Themes work streight up with OpenBox?12:32
crimsunminghua: no, among many many others I requested, but I understand he's swamped12:33
minghuacrimsun: no problem.  I just want to make sure it's not some problem specific to octave2.112:33
minghuacrimsun: I know many other MOTUs have pending syncs too12:33
ajmitchelmo said to ask him about any pending syncs12:34
LaserJockKyral: just try it. I like openbox+pypanel. I use it for my vnc server12:34
ajmitchsince he believes he has caught up on them all12:34
tsengpypanel takes forever to configure12:34
KyralCan I use my Dockapps with it?12:34
crimsunajmitch: ah12:34
LaserJockKyral: not sure12:34
KyralI would12:37
Kyralbut when I just quit from Fluxbox12:37
KyralX is dead12:37
LaserJockhow dead? just mostly dead?12:37
tsengbecause it was the last thing in xinitrc12:37
tsengafter the last process in the list dies12:38
tsengX is done12:38
KyralI mean not coming up period12:38
Kyralno GDM12:38
LaserJockdid you dist-upgrade today?12:38
LaserJockso it could be the new Xorg12:38
crimsunit's just the dangling symlink12:39
crimsunmake /usr/bin/X11/X actually point to something valid, like oh /usr/bin/X11/Xorg12:40
=== Kyral nods
LaserJockajmitch: I just say zope-* go by in dapper-changes :-)12:40
LaserJocks/say/saw/ my typing sucks today. Oh, yeah. I'm using a new keyboard12:41
ajmitchLaserJock: that's because I asked him an hour or so ago12:41
LaserJockhmm, I wonder when he will get to my RT ticket :(12:42
ajmitchwhat's the ticket about?12:42
LaserJocksvn access for the docteam, mdke has been bugging him quite a bit about it. I hope he doesn't get mad ;-)12:43
LaserJockit's been over two weeks now I think12:45
azeemLaserJock: the gaussum.1 manpage is not being installde12:45
azeemeh, installed12:45
azeemprobably easiest to pass debian/gaussum.1 to dh_installmanpages or what's it called12:46
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LaserJockI call dh_installman, do I need to tell it explicitly which man page?12:47
azeemyes, I think so12:47
azeemeither in debian/foo.manpages12:47
azeemor by passing it as option to dh_installman12:47
LaserJockdoh, I see it now. just a sec12:48
KyralI had to symlink /usr/X11R6/bin/X to /usr/bin/Xorg12:48
ajmitchor you could have just waited & dist-upgraded once fixed :)12:49
KyralI use Dapper because when shit breaks it gives me an opportunity to learn by fixing :D12:50
LaserJockI thought that was what Gentoo was for ;-)12:51
KyralNo, Gentoo is learning how to entertain yourself while waiting for crap to compile :D12:51
LaserJockor learning what a nice value is all about12:52
crimsunKyral: I sidestepped the entire issue, since I don't know what symlink is going to do what, by editing /etc/gdm/gdm.conf12:53
LaserJockok, so what happens when the new Xorg stuff breaks other packages? I can't install vnc4server because it depends on xserver-common12:55
Kyraland yah12:55
KyralLooks okay12:55
Kyralbut I like Flux for how easy the config files are to understand :P12:55
LaserJockazeem: ok, fixed12:55
tsenguse obconf12:55
tsengand be happy12:55
LaserJocklol, +112:55
Kyraltseng: obconf no writes menus for me ;P12:56
LaserJockKyral: tseng just gave me a great URL: http://david.chalkskeletons.com/openbox.html12:57
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Kyralfine fine01:00
LaserJockKyral: no pressure, but if you don't like Openbox your off MOTUScience ;-) *just kidding*01:02
Kyralobmenu no work01:04
ajmitch270 upgraded, 8 newly installed, 6 to remove and 1 not upgraded.01:05
ajmitchNeed to get 182MB of archives.01:05
ajmitchand I'm restricted to ~64Kbps at the moment01:05
=== Kyral sighs and goes back to Flux
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=== ajmitch should upgrade the sarge box downstairs to breezy or something
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Kyralcrimsun: did you close the bug?01:32
crimsunKyral: for which?01:34
Kyralthe thing you uploaded for me..dh whatever01:34
crimsunKyral: no01:34
KyralOkay I'll close it01:35
crimsundhcdbd iirc01:35
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Kyralokay done01:39
crimsunLaserJock: whew, I almost thought I was going mad there01:39
LaserJocksomebody's got to keep track of him ;-)01:39
azeemLaserJock: I've uploaded it01:40
LaserJockazeem: oh, thank you so much.01:40
Kyralazeem: how does EasyChem progress?01:40
LaserJockKyral: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html01:41
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ajmitchthe debian NEW queue has stalled a little lately01:42
bmontyanyone used gq lately (GTK LDAP browser)?01:50
ajmitchnope, not lately01:50
LaserJockhmm, is it OK to unplug a PS2 keyboard while your comp is still running?01:51
bmontyI'm working on Malone #6629, and I wondering about enabling the SSL and SASL features01:52
UbugtuMalone bug 6629: "userPassword Support not available, because it is not build with libssl-dev" Fix req. for: gq (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: In Progress http://launchpad.net/bugs/662901:52
minghuaLaserJock: if you don't want to use keyboard anymore, yes :-)01:52
bmontyI have a package that depends on libssl-dev and libsasl2-dev and they seem to work correctly, but the debian maintainer has some info in the BTS saying there are bugs, but no details01:52
LaserJockminghua: so will it fry it?01:53
LaserJockminghua: I just want to use a different keyboard01:53
crimsunLaserJock: it won't fry it, you'll just need to reset state, generally via a reboot01:53
bmontyLaserJock: I don't think you would fry anything, but some motherboards won't bring up the keyboard without a reset when you reconnect it01:53
minghuaLaserJock: I've done it once or twice before, no harm done, except you need to ssh into it to reboot it01:54
LaserJockok, I'll stay with this one for a while then. darn cider :(01:54
ajmitchbmonty: is gq under the GPL?01:54
bmontyso with gq, I can verify that SASL works with my setup, so I'm wondering if we should enable the feature in the ubuntu package01:54
ajmitchbmonty: would you try & link gq with openssl or with gnutls?01:55
ajmitchgpl+openssl don't mix without a gpl exception01:55
bmontyajmitch: gq is GPL, and yes my local packge is linked with OpenSSL01:56
bmontyyour point is taken though01:56
ajmitchwell they mix01:56
ajmitchbut we can't distribute in that case :)01:56
bmontywell the SASL part that I care about works :)01:57
bmontyI'll have to try it with gnutls and see what happens01:58
LaserJockbrb, swaping keyboards, stupid memory leak is eating all my RAM01:58
=== bmonty is wondering how keyboards relate to memory leaks
LaserJockcause I can get rid of both with a reboot ;-)01:59
bmontyah :)01:59
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LaserJockahh, better02:06
LaserJockkeyboard works and and I gained 300MB of RAM02:10
KyralWTF did you do?02:10
LaserJockcider spill from yesterday and some sort of memory leak02:11
LaserJockspacebar is a little stiff though :(02:12
LaserJockoh well, in a week or so I'll have a new iMac to use02:13
LaserJocknew keyboard02:13
LaserJockonly stupid 1-button mouse02:13
LaserJockthat'l go real quick02:13
KyralI cannot live without a 3 button + scroll wheel02:13
LaserJockwell, actually I'll have a MightyMouse so it has a scroll ball and side buttons02:14
Kyralhub ty for voting on GTKEdit02:15
bmontyajmitch: if the copying file allows OpenSSL can we package it in ubuntu?02:15
hubbmonty: why do they still use it?02:16
bmontyhub: gq...its an old program02:16
ajmitchbmonty: if the source says it can, then debian/copyright needs clarified02:17
hubif I had time I would port netatalk to libnss02:17
Kyralguys, stupid question, but when did Multiverse go official?02:17
bmontysource and the package COPYING say it is ok02:18
ajmitchKyral: at the beginning?02:18
crimsunwith Warty.02:18
Kyralyah just makin' sure02:18
Kyralsomeone thought that it wasn't lol02:18
azeemI would've thought it was between warty and hoary02:18
ajmitchazeem: I think it was in place at the start, but I didn't install warty on my systems02:19
=== ajmitch was still running sid
azeemindeed, it was02:19
KyralI've been thinking about doing a Debian install02:20
ajmitchI wonder why there seems to be a long delay between incoming & packages hitting the pool in sid at the moment02:20
LaserJockmy other package has been in NEW for a week02:21
azeemajmitch: they hit the pool fine I guess, it's just the mirroring which takes agaes02:21
azeemrunning apt-ftparchive rather, I heard02:21
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ajmitchI frequently look on http.us.d.o & see my packages still aren't there02:22
ajmitchsame on ftp.d.o02:22
LaserJockI don't use *.us.* for anything anymore :(02:23
azeemajmitch: maybe packages.qa.d.o/<package> has better information, is displays the version for unstable/testing02:23
ajmitchsure, it says the package was ACCEPTED02:23
azeemunless you want the .deb itself of course, d'oh02:23
=== Kyral sighs to himself
ajmitchhaving the deb available is nice02:23
azeemajmitch: well, ACCEPTED is from -devel-changes, so that's when it hits incoming02:24
ajmitchespecially when the upload was done to make it installable again02:24
LaserJockKyral: what's wrong?02:24
azeemajmitch: tell your users to get from incoming02:24
=== Kyral shakes his head
KyralNah just got depressed for a sec02:24
azeem"Three words for you: Fixed in incoming. Kthxbye"02:24
ajmitchazeem: that's what I mean - it disappeared from incoming, and hasn't shown up yet02:24
KyralOh well, one new changelog entry for me :D02:24
ajmitchit's happened for the 8 or so packages I've uploaded lately :)02:24
ajmitchthere's a black hole somewhere in the process02:25
=== Kyral is just trying to figure out when to go for MOTUness
ajmitchwhen you're ready02:27
Kyralyah tryin' to figure that out lol02:28
bmontyajmitch: is this a good description of the openssl license issue? http://www.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html02:28
KyralRight now I'm thinkin' sometime in Dapper + 102:28
ajmitchbmonty: yes02:28
ajmitchbmonty: and debian takes the position that they can't use the 'distributed with a system' loophole because they are distributing that system02:29
Kyralhow would the idea of a GUI for PBuilder sound?02:30
bmontyajmitch: is that documented in the policy manual (I looked real quick but didn't see it)02:30
bmontyKyral: for what purpose?02:30
ajmitchno, I doubt it'd be part of policy02:30
ajmitchpossible though02:30
bmontyajmitch: ok, thanks02:31
bmontyprobably a discussion on debian-legal or something?02:31
Kyralbmonty: for those Devs who are GUI oriented, and for ease of managing multiple pbuilders02:31
tsenggui oriented02:31
KyralYes they exist...02:32
bmontyKyral: I could see the multi-pbuilder case, but I think the pbuilder CLI is nicely done02:32
=== Kyral shrugs
bmontyvery efficient02:32
KyralJust an idea02:32
LaserJockI use pbuilder from within other scripts02:32
KyralI mean Apt-Get is all you need, but people still prefer Synaptic02:32
LaserJockKyral: I think some sort of multiple pbuilder manager would be nice02:33
bmontyKyral: I'm just interested in what a GUI for pbuilder would provide, not knocking the idea02:33
Kyralwell, like Cache management, Result management, PBuilder management, etc02:34
LaserJockKyral: it would be easier if you came up with use cases or something02:34
=== Kyral shrugs
KyralI guess its for me more lol02:34
LaserJockKyral: well, I would be interested but I'm not sure what I would do with it02:35
=== Kyral shrugs
KyralI have to learn PyGTK first ;P02:35
ajmitchthose use cases aren't ones that are done often02:35
bmontypygtk is fairly straightforward :)02:37
Kyralyah,. but I don't even know much Python yet ;P02:37
=== Kyral shrugs
bmontyI have a gtktreeview working in python, and I was never able to get one to do what I wanted in C02:37
ajmitchyour choice as to whether it's a good use of time02:37
KyralPeople ether think in terms of the commandline or GUI02:38
ajmitchand pbuilder is generally a commandline tool02:38
Kyralyah, so was Apt, until Synaptic02:38
ajmitchas nearly all package building is02:38
bmontyKyral: I think in terms of which is the most efficient interface02:38
ajmitchthey're different02:39
Kyralbmonty: *shrug*02:39
ajmitchyou can't compare pbuilder & apt in that way02:39
LaserJockKyral: I understand what your trying to do but you need more motivation than "lets GUIify a CLI app". Just think about ways in which your GUI app could be more efficient than the CLI one02:40
KyralI personally think a CLI is always more efficient, but I knwo there are peopel out there who cannot stand the CLI02:41
minghuaKyral: why would those people want to play with pbuilder, then?02:41
ajmitchand those people are very unlikely to be building packages02:41
LaserJockKyral: not so much cannot stand CLI as find GUI to be more efficient for them02:42
bmontyI don't think the CLI is always more efficient...f-spot is much better than "ls *.jpg"02:42
Kyralminghua: I have a friend who is a wizard with Webcoding, yet she loves the GUI. She prefers Synaptic over Apt02:42
LaserJockKyral: but that isn't necessarily the point. It's not all GUI or all CLI, it's what is most efficient and easy to use for the task02:43
minghuaKyral: no problem with that, I've seen many of those people too.  The question still is: why the hell do they want to touch pbuilder?02:43
azeemKyral: good GUI design is hard02:43
azeemeven more so when doing it on top of a CLI app I guess02:43
ajmitchwhy do you keep comparing synaptic & apt?02:43
KyralGParted and Parted02:44
azeemthere is libparted02:44
ajmitchand pbuilder is designed to give you a lot of text output that cannot easily be put into a GUI, without just throwing in a big textarea02:45
=== Kyral isghs
KyralI knew it would be blasted apart02:46
LaserJockalthough something like an IDE for packaging would be kinda cool02:46
minghuaand in my opinion, even if pbuilder is GUIfied, those people still can't use it efficiently, what about editing debian/control and debian/changelog?  what about checking dependencies?  what about make? :-P02:46
Kyralactually LJ has a good idea....02:47
ajmitchLaserJock: we call it emacs :)02:47
LaserJockI still haven't used emacs for packaging02:47
ajmitchit has somem useful modes for editing changelogs & control files02:48
LaserJockI'll have to look into it. I just find vim easier for editing02:48
bmontyI call it vim02:48
KyralI dunno02:48
bmontydeath to all you emacs zealots! :)02:48
ajmitchespecially when it's used for actual debian packaging, when you can see the list of open bugs in the emacs menu, etc02:48
KyralMaybe I'll just write this thing for myself and if I think its very good...02:48
ajmitchKyral: sure, someone might use it02:48
ajmitchKyral: we're just making sure you consider wisely if it's a good use of time :)02:49
ajmitchsince we've got all these dapper bugs to fix02:49
Kyralajmitch: this will prolly be like a summer project or something in my idle time02:49
LaserJockKyral: you might also think of other packaging related apps that maybe are more appropriate for GUIfication02:50
ajmitchhow would lintian work with a GUI?02:51
KyralInstead of just telling you to read Section foobar of the Policy Manual you could click on it and have <insert webbrowser here> open to the section ;P02:52
LaserJockI was thinking more like a gui for looking at large amounts of apt-cache type stuff02:52
Kyralor that02:52
LaserJocklike gimme a list of ubuntuX packages w02:53
=== ajmitch spots 2 sessions on debian & ubuntu at LCA next week
LaserJockyou could interface with lucas's mdt or something02:53
LaserJock_awaydinner time, bbl02:55
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=== ajmitch ought to go out & do stuff now anyway, bbl
ajmitchLathiat: how'd you get hooked into doing talks about debian & ubuntu now?03:00
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minghuacrimsun: thank you so much for the octave2.1 sync03:03
Lathiatajmitch: someone asked and i sillily volunteered? :)03:03
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ajmitchLathiat: they looked at the list of active uploaders? ;)03:07
ajmitchLathiat: I'll have to sit in the front row & heckle away03:07
ajmitchah, it's in castle 2, a decent sized lecture theatre03:08
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Lathiatajmitch: got a spare flame retardent suit? :)03:08
ajmitchsure, I've got an ubuntu tshirt sitting around here :)03:08
Lathiati dont have one of those03:09
=== ajmitch has 2
ajmitchI'm sure you won't mind corrections from the audience ;)03:09
ajmitchreminds me, I should wear my ubuntu tshirt to the debian miniconf03:10
ajmitchok, time for me to go03:11
ajmitchif I don't see you beforehand, I'll talk to you on monday :)03:11
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bmontyhi \sh03:51
\shgnarf..12h ISP forced disconnect03:52
\shbuilding wine 0.9.603:55
bmontygood luck :)03:56
\shI was just announced :) and I can't sleep anymore...same luck as with python-kde3...2 UVF exception reports in less then 2 days...fun03:57
bmontyI understand the concept behind UVF, but it seems to be impractical in a lot of cases03:58
\shno...but regarding some packages it can be quite good to have new upstream versions for the new release. regarding python-kde3, it fixed a lot of issues we had with this package, and I can drop now some serious patches from our packages.03:59
\shthe same applies for wine. since 0.9.4 wine is more stable then ever. So it's good to have it. But after FF, there is no way to do that anymore. Because we don't have much time to test anymore...04:00
\shand why the heck is libqt3-mt-dev not installable04:01
hubhugin uploaded.04:07
hubuploading autopano-sift04:07
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bmontygood night everyone04:08
Kyraljeez Hub you are on a roll04:09
hubKyral: my packages where waiting for upload04:09
hubI'll purge the list top to bottom04:09
Kyralone more vote for GTKEdit...04:09
hubbut upload is fscking slow.04:10
hubI blame my modem04:10
hubI need to find a new one. this one is crashing all the time04:10
\shhub: are you motu now?04:11
hub\sh: yeah. and I have upload rights04:12
\shhub: congrats..since when? I think I missed your advocation somehow...sadly04:12
hubit was the CC04:12
hubi meant04:12
\shhub: cool :)04:14
hubso how is life?04:15
\shhub: could be better...04:16
hubbtw, since we are in UVF, what is the point with new universe packages04:17
hubcan they go in?04:17
\shnew universe packages, if they do not need new libs in main can go in until FF04:18
hubso UVF is only for main?04:21
\shsee #ubuntu-devel just now :)04:23
KyralIt means that no new Upstream versions04:23
Kyralunless its like a major security thing04:23
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\shKyral: if it's a major security thing, we have to decide if we backport the security fix, or introduce the new version..this depends what is a much better solution04:26
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ajmitchhey \sh04:38
\shgood morning ajmitch :)04:38
hubhow to I make a signed .changes?04:38
hubwhen I'm not the last in the changelog04:38
\shdebuild -S [-sa]  -k<your gpg uid>04:39
\sh-sa if it will be a source upload04:39
\shajmitch: preparing wine 0.9.604:40
hubdebsign -k works04:40
\shhub: think about *_source.changes :)04:41
\shnot the .changes file for the binaries :)04:41
hubonly the _source.changes04:41
hubI don't even debuild there04:42
hubI pbuild directly04:42
ajmitch\sh: how many regressions this time? ;)04:42
\shthere shouldn't be any, but I can be wrong...04:42
ajmitchhub: right, why would you sign something that you haven't changed? :)04:42
\shproblem is, I don't have much for testing wine :)04:43
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hubajmitch: upload?04:51
hubor I messed up something04:51
ajmitchhub: your entry should be at the top of the changelog04:52
ajmitchyou should only need -k if your email address in the changelog isn't on your gpg keyring04:52
hubajmitch: upload stuff from REVU04:52
ajmitchah right04:52
ajmitchthat's fine then :)04:52
hubso -k04:52
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hubthat all I wanted to hear :-)04:53
=== ajmitch assumed you were uploading your own stuff, or your own fixes
hubajmitch: mine have been uploaded04:53
hubthe one advocated04:53
ajmitchwhat packages?04:57
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hubajmitch: hugin, autopano-sift05:04
ajmitchI noticed they have been packaged in debian recently05:06
ajmitchat least autopano-sift is still in debian NEW05:07
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crimsunminghua: np :)05:15
hubajmitch: 'cause these are "my" packages. I'll check debian. they have been waiting there for some time05:15
hubajmitch: where do I find the incoming of Debian?05:16
minghuahub: are you talking about incoming or NEW?05:17
hubminghua: NEW I mean05:17
ajmitchincoming is incoming.debian.org05:17
minghuahub: incoming is incoming.debian.org05:17
minghuaajmitch is faster than I :-)05:18
hubthat is my package they ported to Debian05:18
ajmitchok :)05:19
ajmitchminghua: I have it in my browser history, I check it every day or two at the moment ;)05:19
hubI should file a RFP for hugin now :-)05:20
ajmitchor ITP if you want to maintain it yourself05:20
Burgundaviaajmitch, does ubuntu have something similar to that new page?05:20
ajmitchhave you talked to the new autopano-sift debian maintainer?05:20
Burgundaviaajmitch, why does a package languish in new?05:20
ajmitchBurgundavia: no05:20
ajmitchBurgundavia: because ftp-master has to check every package for licensing and various other criteria05:21
Burgundaviaajmitch, oh joy05:21
ajmitchit's essential05:21
Burgundaviaajmitch, is this what elmo does for Ubuntu?05:21
ajmitchpackages that have undistributable files can't slip into debian05:21
minghuaaccording to what I heard here, ubuntu is fast enough so we don't need a NEW web interface :-)05:21
ajmitchminghua: pretty much05:21
ajmitchwe also have far fewer NEW packages05:21
Burgundaviawhat does infinity mean when he has to work on the buildds? Is that seperate?05:21
ajmitchBurgundavia: quite separate05:22
ajmitchthis is about accepting new source packages (which can build new binary packages also) into the archive05:22
Burgundaviaajmitch, what sort of work does he have to do? (sorry about all the questions, but never pigeon-holed someone and asked thses questions)05:22
ajmitchafter that the buildds take them05:22
whiprushftpmaster has to be one of the shittiest jobs in all of oss, talk about thankless.05:22
ajmitchinfinity has to manage the build chroots, sometimes manually kicking things to get things building05:23
Burgundaviawhiprush, I can see why elmo makes himself invisible in debian05:23
ajmitcheg a circular build-dependency has to be broken, or a broken package kills the chroot05:23
Burgundaviaajmitch, sometimes the builds break the chroots and they need to be fixed?05:23
ajmitchand that's irritating05:23
ajmitchthey don't clean the chroots after every build05:23
ajmitchsometimes a broken binary enters the archive & kills other builds as well :)05:24
Burgundaviaajmitch, is this worse in debian or ubuntu?05:24
ajmitchhard to say05:24
ajmitchI don't hear much of what goes on in that area05:24
Burgundaviaabout the buildds, they are all controlled by canonical right?05:24
\shdude where is my life...just not one day of UVF, and I wrote my second exception report....THIS CAN'T BE TRUE05:24
=== Burgundavia pats \sh for the good work
ajmitch\sh: don't worry, I've got a stack to write up soon05:25
ajmitchzope3 is uninstallable because its dependency is still in debian NEW05:25
ajmitchso that new dependency will have to get into main05:25
\sh"When reading any modern physics book the average person may be surprised to 05:25
\sh find that time is not constant in the universe."05:25
\sh-- Guy Cramer (http://www.direct.ca/trinity/y3nf.html)05:25
ajmitch(yes doko, I filed a bug :) )05:25
\shactually I found the truth about the universe :)05:25
\shajmitch: the cleaning of the chroot should be introduced when Soyuz lands, I think05:26
ajmitchI'm not sure if they are or not05:26
ajmitchkinnison would probably know05:27
psusiis time not constant in the universe?  or is it meerly our perception of time that differs? ;)05:27
Burgundaviaajmitch, how does debian deal with the issue of buildds under the control of random people/companies?05:27
=== psusi thinks he is emacs' psycotherapist
ajmitchBurgundavia: they aren't05:27
\shpsusi: the fact is, the universe doesn't expand, it implodes :)05:27
ajmitchBurgundavia: all buildds are under debian administration05:28
Burgundaviaajmitch, ah, is there is a buildd team?05:28
psusi\sh, naw... it expands under the influence of either dark energy, or electricity depending on your religion05:28
Burgundaviabut they are not hosted centrally?05:28
ajmitchthere can be unofficial buildds, but every upload has to be signed by a debian developer05:28
=== psusi gets a hoot out of those electric universe guys
ajmitchnope, too many archs in debian to have a central buildd hosting05:29
\shpsusi: hhe05:29
Burgundaviaajmitch, ah05:29
psusiI heard a great joke today...05:29
psusiA guy walks into a bar and has a monkey... the bar tender says hey, you can't bring that in here05:29
psusithe guy says relax man, he's tame... he won't cause trouble...05:30
psusibar tender says ok, fine05:30
psusiso the monkey starts doing things like playing with the bar nuts, drinking other people's beer05:30
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psusifinally the monkey eats the pool queue, and the bar tender says that's it man, get that monkey out of here!05:30
ajmitchBurgundavia: a more experience DD can probably correct mistakes of mine :)05:30
psusinobody sees the guy for 3 weeks, then he finally comes back, and tells the bar tender, relax man.. he learned his lesson last time, he's fine now05:31
ajmitchhub: have you archived your uploads on revu?05:31
psusiso a while later, the monkey sees some cherries on the bar and shoves one up his ass05:31
psusithe bar tender asks the guy why the hell did your monkey shoave that cherry up his ass?05:31
hubajmitch: I did05:31
psusithe guy says "ever since he ate that queue ball, he measures everything first"05:31
hubcommented as uploaded and archived05:31
Burgundaviaajmitch, so in general, the debian and ubuntu upload/build dark-magic machines are similar?05:32
\shYour mail to 'Ubuntu-motu' with the subject05:33
\sh  [UVF Exception Report]  wine 0.9.605:33
\shIs being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.05:33
psusibtw... now that I understand it... the zsync look inside algorithm rocks05:33
\shThe reason it is being held:05:33
\sh  Message body is too big: 73509 bytes with a limit of 40 KB05:33
Burgundavia\sh, you prewriting the wine report?05:33
\sh70k is nothing05:33
psusiwhat's it got attached that makes it that big?05:34
\shpsusi: diffstat and ChangeLog diff05:34
crimsunanyone running Dapper with a usb dvd device?05:35
\shBurgundavia: it's written and send to ubuntu-motu...but somehow the listserver is somehow to stupid..ok 1MB is much for a mail but 70k is just like 40k to me05:35
ajmitchBurgundavia: currently they are quite similar05:35
psusiyea... that is a rather low limit05:35
ajmitchBurgundavia: when we switch to soyuz (like we were meant to > 6 months ago), they will be very different05:35
psusishould be upped to 100k or so05:35
\shcrimsun: I have to burn flight 3 tomorrow, then I have a usb dvd burner on this laptop running dapper05:35
Burgundavia\sh, hmm05:35
ajmitch\sh: who's admin of ubuntu-motu?05:35
\shajmitch: dholbach i think05:35
ajmitch\sh: that's the problem with sending diffs, many UVF requests are going to be big05:36
psusiI burned flight 3 the other night... tried to modify it to include my udebified dmraid package... d-i bitches though and refuses to continue... I don't know what's wrong05:36
ajmitchand every subscribed motu or otherwise will be spammed with them05:36
\shBurgundavia: for universe we decide as a team for UVF exceptions and dholbach collects them and send them to kamion/mdz for approval05:36
\shBurgundavia: for main packages I'm writing uvf reports directly to kamion/mdz05:36
Burgundavia\sh, yep (I am subscribed for -motu for some crazy reason)05:36
\shwell, to be honest, for wine I would deal with kamion or mdz directly, because we will have a lot of bug reports why we don't include at least the latest version of wine...but I think 0.9.6 will be the last exception05:37
\shfor wine actually05:38
minghuasync from debian with the same upstream version doesn't count as breaking UVF, right?05:38
\shbut if 1.0.0 is still in time for dapper...I would like to include it somehow :)05:38
psusiso anyone feel like reviewing my latest dmraid package on revu and see if the udeb version looks ok? just contains /sbin/dmraid and a postinst that runs it... as long as that is run before the installer looks for disks, should be fine05:38
\shminghua: no...new revisions of debian packages are not counting as UVF breakage05:38
psusihuh?  UVF freeze = no more auto syncs from debian05:39
\shpsusi: that's right...05:39
\shpsusi: or elmo adjusted the auto-sync script05:39
psusiso a new debian package version that is not from a new upstream release isn't allowed without an exception05:40
\shpsusi: but more likely we have to check manually for new revisions of debian packages05:40
\shpsusi: wine_0.9.5-2 would be ok, wine_0.9.6-1 only with exception report05:40
minghuawell, I don't mind requesting for sync, as long as I don't need to write report05:40
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\shminghua: if there is a rational and a risk analysis, you can write it to ubuntu-motu, as proposed by dholbach.05:41
Burgundavia\sh, rationale, not rational. The latter is a state of being05:42
\shminghua: when we find a general agreement, that it's worth to include the new version of a software, then to stick with the old one, we have the right arguments for our release managers :)05:42
=== psusi hopes he can get dmraid-udeb included in dapper
Burgundavia\sh, the former is an argument for said existent05:42
\shBurgundavia: thx :) will fix my spelling :)05:42
\shpatch -p1 < \\sh_spelling_fix.patch05:43
\shhehe :)05:43
Burgundavia\sh, one hopes you are the latter, as its opposite meaning is that you are insane05:43
psusino... the opposite of rational is irrational, which is not the same thing as insane05:44
Burgundaviapsusi, true05:44
\shBurgundavia: hmmm..I thought I am ;)05:44
minghua\sh: thanks, I think I'll write exception report for one of my debian package soon05:44
Burgundaviapsusi, in common usage, irrational and insane are similar05:44
psusiI think I used to be someone, now I just stare into the sun05:44
minghua(after it's uploaded by my sponsor, that is)05:45
psusiBurgundavia, there's a lot of stupididity in common usage ;)05:45
Burgundaviapsusi, yes, but is works for ESL people05:45
psusia lot of people also believe you get fat from genetics or other things outside your control, not from eating too much and excercizing too little... which is why there are so many fat people... heh05:46
Burgundaviapsusi, it is scary how much difference 50 km makes. That is how close I live to the US border and the people in the states are much much bigger05:47
psusiBurgundavia, ahh, Canadian?05:47
Burgundaviapsusi, yep, west coast05:47
psusiyou see that movie "Supersize me"?05:47
psusiscarry shit... even moreso because it's true05:48
Burgundaviapsusi, yep05:48
ajmitchBurgundavia: ESL? doesn't that describe much of the US? :)05:48
Burgundaviaajmitch, point taken05:49
psusiit's been 10 years now since I swore to God I would never eat at McDonald's again if I survived that time.... and I don't even believe in God05:49
ajmitchenglish as a second language05:49
ajmitch(at least that's a common abbreviation)05:49
psusiI did a lab in 8th grade on Mcdonald's food and count it to me 20% lard, 80% starch, 0 protien05:49
ajmitchmmm, highly processed carbs05:50
\shactually I like to eat burgers from burger king......05:51
psusithat last time I ate there I swear it felt like it was coming out of me sideways... I doubt a spinal tap would have been more painfull05:51
psusiI used to prefer them at least to McDonalds... but I haven't even eaten there in a year or two05:52
\shbut I'm smoking, so I'm avoiding to increase my weight05:52
psusiI quit smoking thanksgiving ;)05:52
ajmitch\sh: I was eating that sort of thing last year05:52
psusiwent out the night before thanksgiving and got smashed and smoked too much05:52
ajmitchas you could probably tell by seeing me at UBZ05:52
psusigot walking pnemonia from it that hung on for 4 weeks05:52
psusinot fun05:52
ajmitchso far I've lost nearly 10kg this year05:52
psusidecided that was it... no more smoking05:53
\shajmitch: well...but you don't smoke...you can eat burger king or mcdonalds when you smoke ;)05:53
psusibut... I've still got my 10 cases of special seaonal Tucher I got thanksgiving05:53
ajmitch3 hour walks up & down hills around here helps a lot ;)05:53
psusidamn that is some fine ass beer05:53
=== ajmitch wonders if he should pester mjg59 with his laptop next week :)
\shajmitch: well, I don't drive a car, so I'm fortunate to use my legs for reaching point b from point a :)05:54
=== psusi just runs 2.5 miles 3 days a week at the gym
ajmitchyeah, I don't drive either05:54
ajmitchpsusi: that's not too bad05:54
psusitrying to get places without a car doesn't work... don't have 3 hours to walk 8 miles05:55
ajmitchdunedin is small enough that I can get to the main places in 10-15 minutes that I care about05:55
=== psusi is getting sick and tired of getting 13 miles to the gallon on gas though
\shok..it's 4:55 UTC...time to hit the bed again for a couple of hours...and then getting ready for some freelance job meeting05:55
psusi"what if everything around you isn't quite what it seems? what if all the world you think you know is an elaborate dream"05:55
ajmitchnight \sh  :)05:56
psusi"and if you look at your reflection, is that all you want to be?"05:56
psusi"what if you could look right through the cracks?  would you find yourself, find yourself afriad to see?"05:56
\shg'night cu later today :)05:56
psusi"what if all the world's inside of your head?  just creations of your own?"05:56
psusi"your devils and your gods, all the living and the dead, and you really ought to know"05:57
psusi"you can live in this illusion, you can choose to believe"05:57
psusi"you keep looking but you can't find the words, are you hiding in the trees?"05:57
Burgundaviaajmitch, how does one properly refer to the entire debian package management system? apt? dpkg?05:58
ajmitchdunno :)05:58
Burgundaviatoo much blood in yer head, from hangin upside down05:59
psusiI just knew it as dselect several years ago when I ran debian... ;)05:59
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Burgundaviaok, this is just stupid --> http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2006/01/19/what-the-heck-is-with-this-1501-update/06:12
=== Burgundavia kicks mozilla
minghuadselect is the only user tool in Debian's package management system that I am afraid of :-)06:13
=== Burgundavia has never used dselect
psusiwhat's wron with that?06:14
psusi( both the firefox thing and dselect )06:14
minghuaI don't see anything wrong with the firefox thing either06:14
Burgundaviathey are inflicting a beta on people who didn't ask for it06:15
minghuaas for dselect, it's not wrong, it's just I had bad experience with it as a newbie, and hasn't used that since I discovered aptitude06:15
minghuafear because of ignorance, perhaps :-)06:15
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=== minghua sees that he has bad grammar :-(
psusithey DID ask for it... by installing the last beta06:17
Burgundaviapsusi, I disagree06:18
Burgundaviapsusi, they agreed to install the LAST beta, not this one06:18
psusiyou agreed to be a beta tester... you didn't say otherwise since then by auto upgrading to the stable release ;)06:18
Burgundaviapsusi, so because i installing breezy before it was stable my machine should magically start upgrading me through dapper? I don't think so06:19
psusiif you wanted stable, you would have waited for breezy to go stable ;)06:20
Burgundavianote that debian also has this problem06:20
psusieven if it doesn't upgrade beyond that, starting with an unstable prerlease, I expect problems06:20
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raphinkhi zakame08:24
zakameheya raphink :) what's up?08:25
raphinknot much :)08:25
raphinkreviewing, reviewing, reviewing :)08:25
raphinkhmm and reviewing too :)08:25
zakamestill feeling tired, I got back home yesterday from Manila, it was enjoyable but tiring08:26
raphinkoh nice :)08:27
raphinkwhere are you now?08:27
zakamein Daet, about 9 hours away from Manila08:27
zakamemy second home ;)08:27
raphinkok :)08:28
raphinkLiVEs package is having me write whole novels of comments ;)08:30
raphinkat least this guy will learn a lot about packaging with this package ;)08:31
zakamew00t :)08:32
raphinkzakame: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1561 when I say lots, I mean it ;)08:33
=== zakame looks
=== zakame hugs raphink for being such a rocking REVU-er :)
=== raphink hugs zakame back :)
minghuaraphink: are you sure debian/control has 80 char/line limit?08:36
raphinkyep,the description field has08:36
raphinknot the dependencies though08:36
raphinkthe dependencies adapt to the width of the screen08:36
raphinkbut the long description doesn't08:36
minghuaah, description field, that makes sense08:36
raphinkand the rule for _all_ files is that it can be seen on a 80-lines-wide console08:37
raphinkthat theorically include changelog, too08:37
raphinkthe logs should be readable in a 80-lines-wide console too08:37
raphinkwhich is pretty logical08:37
raphinkyou don't want to have to guess half of the changelogs just because you logged in a tty, right?08:38
minghuaMy vim debchangelog set the text width to 78 chars08:38
raphinknice :)08:38
raphinkI do it manually08:38
zakamethere is a move to get the {,Build-}Depends{,-Indep} and similar fields to have that limit as well, for readability08:40
raphinkhow do you mean zakame ?08:42
zakameraphink: instead of having all those dependencies in one line, the proposal allows for putting dependencies in multiple lines08:44
raphinkcan be nice08:44
zakameyeah, but it's not getting any ground in debian-policy atm08:45
raphinkI uploaded a package about an hour ago and had no feedback yet :s08:46
raphinkhope it worked08:46
raphinkogra__: are you there?08:47
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zakameraphink: question on copyright: if I debianize/ubuntize some free software that isn't GPL, can I release my changes under GPL, or should I follow with what upstream uses?08:50
janmzakame: what's the license upstream uses>08:51
raphinkit depends on the license I guess08:51
raphinkbut if the license is not GPL-compatible, you won't get the package in universe anyway08:51
zakamejanm: libmemcache, for example, uses BSD08:51
raphinkBSD is a lesser license iirc08:51
zakameraphink: true08:51
raphinkit allows almost everything08:51
raphinkincluding changing the licence of derived products IIRC08:52
raphinkcheck it though08:52
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raphinkzakame: and let me know if you get the info, I'm interested in it ;)08:52
zakameraphink: sure :)08:53
zakameI'll ask in #d-devel :)08:53
raphinkok :)08:53
raphink#d-mentors could be a good idea, too08:54
minghuazakame: you can release your change as GPL, but in my opinion it's polite to use the upstream's license08:58
minghuaas long as the upstream license is compatible with GPL, I don't see anything forbidding anyone to release his/her patch under GPL08:58
raphinkhi slomo09:01
slomohi raphink09:01
zakameheya slomo :)09:02
zakameindeed minghua :)09:03
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raphinkhi dholbach10:19
dholbachgood morning10:20
raphinkdholbach: I uploaded a package this morning and got no news10:22
raphinkdo you know how I can be sure it was uploaded10:22
ajmitchraphink: using what email address in the changelog?10:22
raphinkI didn't change the changelog10:22
raphinkbut I ran debuild -S -k with my ID10:22
raphinkso that I signed the files myself10:22
raphinkand my key is up now10:23
ajmitchok, but the address in the changelog is what is used for katie to send mail to10:23
raphinkoooh ok10:23
ajmitchand if it's not whitelisted, they won't get mail10:23
raphinkso it was only sent to tonio and he's not whitelisted10:23
raphinkso no matter what, I won't get katie's news about it ;)10:24
ajmitchso it was sent to noone10:24
ajmitchit'll still show on dapper-changes when accepted10:24
raphinkif accepted10:24
ajmitchif it's new, it'll have to be elmo-blessed first10:24
raphinkthis is my first update to universe, so I care about it :)10:25
raphink+ it's an upload of one of my mentors in a way ;)10:25
raphinkajmitch: how did you tell me I had to do to be added to MOTU on LP again?10:26
ajmitchyou need to join the team10:27
raphinkI can't10:27
ajmitchand an admin will see that & approve you for membership10:27
ajmitchwhy not?10:27
raphinkMOTU is a restricted team. Only a team administrator can add new members.10:27
raphinkit's not a moderate team, it's a restricted one10:27
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ajmitchI'll try & add you10:27
ajmitchwhat's your lp username?10:27
=== ajmitch is still waiting for launchpad to load...
ajmitchit is great pain10:28
raphinkoh it's pretty fast here10:28
raphinkor is it your ISP that is a pain?10:28
=== ajmitch is on severely throttled dsl until tuesday
ajmitch10GB monthly quota10:29
raphinkouch all kde apps fail to build in Dapper today10:29
raphinkthere's an issue with kdelibs4-dev10:29
raphinkwe need to fix that soon, that's making all buildd builds fail on kde apps, too :(10:30
ajmitchbug Riddell or \sh_away :)10:30
raphinkthat's what I'm doing10:30
Burgundaviadholbach, do you need help with moderating -motu ?10:34
dholbachBurgundavia: I shouldn't think so. The moderation mails are pretty low traffic, but thanks for the offer.10:35
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Burgundaviadholbach, if you need help, give me a shout10:36
dholbachOk, thanks.10:36
raphinkdholbach: oh I just sent a spam  to it, work for you ;)10:37
dholbachraphink: Yeah, I was afraid I didn't have anything to do today.10:38
raphinkdholbach: are we supposed to keep documenting our work on the wiki when we are MOTUs ?10:39
raphinkI mean just as much as before?10:39
=== ajmitch never has
ajmitchyou can if you want10:40
raphinkhehe ok10:40
raphinkwell it takes a lot of time10:40
ajmitchsince it might be helpful if you apply for main upload rights some day in the future :)10:40
raphinkI've stopped documenting my reviews two days ago10:40
raphinkhmm ic10:41
raphinkbut then I leave my track on the servers though10:41
raphinkand the contributions can be grepped from the db, no?10:41
ajmitchand we can have a record of any wiki changes, any uploads, bug reports & comments10:42
raphinkand then we need to document the changes in this record aswell10:43
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Yagisanraphink: your reply missed the mailing list10:53
raphinkYagisan: my reply?10:53
Yagisanraphink: to my suggestions for motu apprentices10:54
raphinkoh I thought I had CCed it10:54
raphinkthanks Yagisan I will forward it10:54
=== ajmitch re-reads the motu list
Yagisanraphink: I'm subscribed so no need to CC me10:55
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raphinksure Yagisan just to the ML10:55
ajmitchYagisan: you want this run as formal irc sessions, or something on the wiki?10:55
raphinkoops it was sent as forwarded text of course10:56
raphinkwas it sent this time Yagisan ?10:56
raphinkdunno if you got it yet10:56
Yagisanajmitch: probably as an irc session, with a writeup on the wiki when done, for those that miss the lesson10:56
Yagisanajmitch: raphink: as I said, just a few suggestions10:57
raphinksure Yagisan10:57
ajmitchsounds good, if we can find the time :)10:57
raphinkI think ajmitch's lecture was appreciated last time10:58
raphinkif we can find the time in the master thing10:58
Yagisanraphink: ajmitch: I personally have found time spent on training is always well spent10:58
raphinkapart from that it would surely be cool10:58
raphinkyes Yagisan10:58
ajmitchYagisan: yeah, we have to find the right balance between doing the work & trying to guide others to help out10:58
raphinkas said in my answer, I'd be find lecturing on rewiewing if someone wants of it ;)10:58
Yagisanraphink: still don't see your message yet10:59
=== raphink needs to take a pause
raphinkYagisan: ok10:59
raphinkYagisan: the list if moderated10:59
raphinkor is it moderated only for non members?10:59
ajmitchthere are times when 2 MOTUs advocating still isn't enough, really :)11:00
raphinkyes ajmitch11:00
=== ajmitch has seen some things sneak through that shouldn't have
raphinkI pinged hub yesterday about his reviews11:00
ajmitchit's something I should do more of11:00
raphinkand suggested him some readings :)11:00
ajmitchI have a tendency to be overly picky about some things & miss others :)11:00
ajmitchsuch as?11:01
raphinkthat's why it's great to require several MOTUs to advocate11:01
raphinkajmitch: the ReviewingTips on the wiki + the reject FAQ on ftp-master and Mathew Palmer's checklist for sponsors11:01
raphinkI think that's a good start :)11:02
ajmitchit's a basic start11:02
ajmitchbut I've still found a number of things that aren't on checklists11:02
raphinkyes, and good documentation11:02
ajmitchthings that other motus have approved :)11:03
raphinkI think lecturing and getting questions about this could help getting up questions onthe subject11:03
raphinkgathering them11:03
raphinkfinding typical examples for documentation on REVU11:03
raphinkand writing something rather complete and readable ;)11:03
=== ajmitch should probably sit down for some reviews in a week or two
Yagisanraphink: just got your message to the list11:04
raphinkajmitch: I have been reviewing since two days ago, almost non-stop ;)11:04
ajmitchraphink: good11:04
raphinkthe list is getting smaller11:04
raphinkYagisan: great :)11:04
ajmitchI see no reason why we can't hold everyone to the standards that debian expects11:05
raphinkwell Debian expects these standards but they are often not met in debian itself ;)11:05
raphinkwhich is not a reason good enough to not expect them ourselves11:06
raphinkall the more that REVU gives us a great way to get sure we follow these standards11:06
raphinkif reviewers get a good education in this field11:06
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ajmitchthunar should have been archived11:07
Yagisanajmitch: I don't understand you here - is that in regard to package quality ?11:07
ajmitchYagisan: yes11:07
dholbachanyone who would like to fix multisync?11:07
dholbachmake it rebuild with newest evolution-data-server again?11:07
ajmitchYagisan: what other things would there be?11:07
ajmitchdholbach: 0.8.x?11:08
dholbachajmitch: no, just the current11:08
Yagisanajmitch: quality I agree with - I was concerned it was more on the dfsg standards11:08
dholbachso the rdepends of evolution-data-server are all installble again11:08
ajmitchYagisan: we should hold to those as well, where possible11:08
Mithrandirdholbach: yay you (and seb). :-)11:09
ajmitchdholbach: right, 0.82 is current :)11:09
ajmitchwhy does hub have g-p-m on revu?11:09
raphinkbecause he's a MOTu11:09
raphinksince tuesday11:09
Yagisanajmitch: I like the where possible, as I believe I mentioned my concerns in my mail11:09
raphinkgot a MOTU at the same time as lucas and I11:10
ajmitchyes, but mvo has been handling g-p-m lately, I think11:10
dholbachDidn't ogra and mjg59?11:10
dholbachI think it was mvo just for libnotify stuff11:10
ajmitchdholbach: possibly11:10
ajmitchit's still universe, I see11:10
ajmitchdholbach: what's the multisync problem?11:10
dholbacha rebuild and it wasnt happy, when i removed automake-1.6 as a build-dep (we don't have it any more)11:11
dholbachit's surely not a 'huge problem'11:11
dholbachbut I thought if you're all just sitting around... :-ppp11:11
=== ajmitch sees a few uploads to revu of new upstream versions of existing debian packages
ajmitchdholbach: of course, we all have *nothing* better to do11:12
ajmitchI'm attempting to fetch the source11:12
ajmitchthis will be a painful experience11:12
=== dholbach hugs ajmitch :)
raphinkdholbach: yeah I think there are quite a bit of FTBFS around dur to automake1.611:13
raphinkwe should list the packages that build-depends on it11:13
raphinksince it's a major cause of FTBFS lately11:13
Yagisanajmitch: you could mark in revu that a wishlist bug could be filed at debian for those11:13
ajmitchYagisan: I will11:14
ajmitchI haven't seen the maintainer that I know of haunting these channels lately11:14
raphinkis there a rdepends tool for build-depends ?11:16
ajmitchKyral: sorry, archived spe11:17
ajmitchraphink: easy enough to do with grep-dctrl :)11:18
raphinklet's see11:18
=== raphink reads man grep-dctrl
ajmitchgrep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends $1 | grep 'Package:' |sed s/Package://g | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep 'Package:' |sed s/Package://g | sort -u11:18
ajmitchthat's what I had in a script :)11:18
ajmitchyou probably don't need all that11:19
raphinkwell no that seems fine11:20
raphinkI'll try it thanks ajmitch :)11:20
ajmitchrebuilding this pbuilder base is taking an age11:22
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ajmitchcan't believe I managed to fill up all my ubuntu development work area11:30
ajmitchthat's a 60GB LVM volume11:30
ajmitchit has a few other things but most of it is ubuntu & debian work11:31
raphinkcalculating mine11:32
ajmitchit has some debian chroots there11:32
=== ajmitch runs apt-get autoclean in them
Yagisanajmitch: only 60GB ?11:32
raphinkoh, you count the chroots ;)11:32
ajmitchYagisan: I've got 55GB unallocated11:32
raphinkI've got a dapper pbuilder, a dapper chroot and a sid chroot11:32
raphinkthat's about 20 GB already11:33
ajmitchraphink: yes, I've still got hoary, breezy, dapper, sid, & experimental11:33
raphinkso heh11:33
raphinkthat's what takes place11:33
ajmitchI do all of my ubuntu work outside chroots11:33
raphinkI don't count that as ubuntu && debian work really11:33
ajmitchand my debian stuff is only bind-mounted into the chroots11:33
raphinkyes same here11:33
raphinkwell I bind-mount my /home in the chroots11:33
ajmitchso they don't take up a lot of space by themselves11:34
raphinkand my debian suff is in ~/debs11:34
=== ajmitch bind-mounts ~/debian
raphinkajmitch: ;)11:34
ajmitchand I have ~/debian/ubuntu :)11:34
raphinkso far I put an ubuntu/ and a debian/ folders in each package folder11:34
raphinkwhich is not very convenient11:34
Yagisanplease, lets not have pissing contests over who has the most chroots and distros stuff11:34
raphinkbut I don't have packages in debian yet11:34
ajmitchYagisan: it's not11:34
raphinkYagisan: :p11:35
raphinkwe're not, Yagisan11:35
=== ajmitch has no real order to his layout at times
raphinkjust sharing our organization stuff :)11:35
=== Yagisan has hoary, breezy, dapper, sarge, sid both amd64 and i386
raphinkoh nice :)11:35
dholbachYou all get a golden star.11:35
raphinkdholbach: lol11:35
dholbachNow go and fix stuff! :-p11:35
ajmitchdholbach: you get a gold medal then11:35
=== Yagisan wins yay!
=== raphink hugs dholbach
ajmitchok, cleared up 3 GB, enough to fix multisync ;)11:36
dholbachROCK ON11:37
dholbachThat's the spirit :)11:37
ajmitchsome people have far too much energy11:37
raphinkhey well we better11:38
Yagisanwho ???11:38
raphinksince they say the entropy in universe is growing fast11:38
dholbachI'll have a dogwalk and then catch up with 243679246 bug mails and 2943769426 apt-get.org reviews.11:38
=== dholbach looks forward to it.
raphinkand our task is to keep it in good order11:38
Yagisango dholbach go ! you can do it !11:38
dholbachSure. :-)11:38
raphinkapt-get.org reviews ?11:38
ajmitchraphink: MASS CRACK IMPORT!11:39
raphinkgreat :)11:39
dholbachajmitch: don't be so mean.11:39
raphinkdo you need volunteers ?11:39
ajmitchsorry :)11:39
Yagisanraphink: ajmitch: how we import my stuff ;)11:39
ajmitchraphink: YES!11:39
ajmitchYagisan: it does get a *brief* review11:39
dholbachYagisan: I'd prefer MOTUs to get it through REVU11:39
raphinki'll throw an eye on it11:39
raphinkthat'll change me from reviewing for a while :)11:39
dholbachAptGetOrg has two purposes.11:39
Yagisandholbach: sorry it was missing <humor> </humor> tags11:40
dholbach1) Stop users from messing with /etc/apt/sources.list11:40
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dholbach2) Invite other developers into the MOTU world.11:40
dholbachYagisan: ah, right.11:40
ajmitchYagisan: don't worry, I sneak my packages in the other way, so no motu has to review them :)11:41
dholbachI'd prefer it, if we could REVU cleaned up.11:41
raphinkdholbach: do I understand that apt-get.org was created for ubuntu?11:41
dholbachIf it's all fine, you can still assist me with apt-get.org11:41
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dholbachraphink: no, for Debian initially.11:42
ajmitchraphink: nope, it's originally debian crack11:42
raphinkthat's what I thought11:42
dholbachBut lots of users install random crack from there.11:42
raphinkused to use it on Debian11:42
dholbachAnd it's better, if we rebuild it on our servers and people get it through us.11:42
raphinkdholbach: so cleaning REVU is #1 priority now?11:42
ajmitchraphink: yes, we have until feature freeze for new packages11:42
dholbachApart from fixing bugs, yes.11:43
ajmitchraphink: after that it's straight bug-fixing11:43
dholbachSo I'll have to review some 450 apt-get.org packages.11:43
ajmitchso we use this chance where we can11:43
=== ajmitch even did a review tonight
raphinkI think I'll focus on REVU then11:43
raphinkI'll deal with bugs when it's time for bugs11:43
dholbachraphink: Thanks for that - I appreciate your efforts.11:43
ajmitchdholbach: do you want me to focus every waking hour on reviewing & educating packagers? ;)11:43
dholbachajmitch: Whatever your like - but it sounds great to me.11:43
=== Yagisan adopts self-righteous tone <tongue-in-cheek of course> - I demand you change the Maintainer field of any of my packages you import from apt-get.org. I refuse to be associated with any packages that may be imported, and rebuilt with a different toolchain
dholbachIf we have new people in here, we should always be quick to give them something we can upload for them after they did a few tweaks11:44
ajmitchYagisan: certainly ;)11:44
dholbachYagisan: I mail those guys, so they can object.11:44
ajmitchYagisan: and I demand that my name be taken off my packages already in ubuntu :)11:44
=== ajmitch has managed to switch 2/3 of his packages to the debian.org address
raphinkthere are about 50 packages on REVU, each review takes from 10 to 40 minutes11:45
Yagisanajmitch: and removed from changelogs, in case someone somewhere decides to email me :-P11:45
ajmitchI think I'll try & get pqm done & uploaded - shall I pass it via REVU, or via debian?11:45
ajmitchraphink: if not more11:45
raphinkyes that's a minimum11:45
raphinkso the minimum manpower time we need is about 10 hours imo11:46
raphinkto review them only once11:46
ajmitchraphink: I also like to login to tiber & get a build done so that I can get proper reports on REVU11:46
Yagisandholbach: so, is their script importing sarge repos now ?11:46
raphinkbut most of them need to be reviewed 3 times or so11:46
ajmitchI know11:46
raphinkajmitch: can I log to tiber, too?11:46
ajmitchraphink: not at the moment, I can probably arrange an account11:46
raphinkok :)11:46
ajmitchsince I have root11:47
ajmitchyou just need to be in the pbuilder group to run revu-build11:47
ajmitchcd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/gnomecatalog-0601191630/gnomecatalog-0.2.3/11:47
ajmitchcd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/gnomecatalog-0601191630/11:47
ajmitchrevu-build gnomecatalog_0.2.3-ubuntu1.dsc11:48
ajmitchthat sort of thing11:48
ajmitchraphink: I'll send you an email with username & password11:48
dholbachYagisan: their script? importing? sarge?11:48
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ajmitchraphink: since I don't know how to set it to your existing revu password :)11:49
Yagisandholbach: the apt-get.org import script - I believe it skipped mine, as mine has sarge in it11:50
=== Yagisan leaves for dinner - bbl
dholbachYagisan: oh yes.11:51
dholbachYagisan: I have a blacklist11:51
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ajmitchsiretart: ping12:01
siretartajmitch: pong12:02
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dholbachraphink: Doesn't hurt to upload KDE stuff.12:19
dholbachraphink: They will be retried.12:19
raphinkI thought you had to request another build12:19
raphinkwith a build112:19
raphinkor is it when a package has become FTBFS after being added ?12:19
raphinklike the automake1.6 ones12:20
dholbachYou ask the buildd admins to give back.12:20
dholbachinfinity and lamont12:20
raphinkdholbach: well then can I cancel an upload that hasn't been built yet?12:20
raphinkI uploaded a 0.2beta1 version12:20
raphinkhopefully it failed to build12:21
raphinkshould have been 0.1.99+0.2beta1 and I saw it after uploading only :s12:21
dholbachIf it's in the archive and was ACCEPTED you will have to upload a version which is 'bigger'12:21
ajmitchonce the source is in the archive, you cannot go back12:21
ajmitch0.2beta can become 0.2final or 0.2release12:21
ajmitchor something similar12:21
dholbachI once was fast enough that elmo intercepted and removed it.12:22
ajmitchthat must have been quick12:22
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dholbachBut in general you have 4m30s minutes at best to scream and shout and elmo 30s to remove it.12:22
raphinkwell then I think he rejected it12:22
raphinkI don't have Katie's output though12:22
raphinksince it's not my package12:23
dholbachsudo apt-get update; apt-get source <package> will tell you what's in the archive. :-)12:23
ajmitchis it a new package?12:23
raphinkdholbach: well if it hasn't been announced on dapper-changes it's not in the archive, right?12:24
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dholbachraphink: ask elmo.12:27
raphinkI will12:28
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Yagisanwow, there is an ubuntu forum for one of my non-in-ubuntu packages12:50
rbelemmorning people12:50
Yagisanrbelem: morning12:51
rbelemhey Yagisan ;-)12:51
Yagisanrbelem: don't you need x264 for your packages ?12:53
rbelemYagisan: yep, cinelerra mainly12:54
ajmitchnight all12:54
Yagisannight ajmitch12:54
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rbelemgnight ajmitch12:55
raphinknight ajmitch12:55
rbelemhey raphink12:55
raphinkhi rbelem12:55
Yagisanrbelem: x264 won't go in unless we convert it to shared libs. Need to check why it isn't shared libs with upstream, and to see if marillat has already converted it12:55
rbelemYagisan: i didnt realized about that12:57
teprrrhmm, pbuilderhowto points me to use distribution breezy.. shouldn't it be dapper now?12:57
teprrrah, yes.. :)12:59
Yagisanrbelem: yes - slomo pointed it out to me a few days ago12:59
rbelemYagisan: another package that cinelerra and other package need is libraw139401:07
rbelemYagisan: but its main area01:07
Yagisanrbelem: ok - what is cinerella actually ?01:09
rbelemYagisan: cinelerra is a powerfull video editor01:09
rbelemYagisan: cvs.cinelerra.org01:10
rbelemYagisan: the most complete opensource video editor01:11
raphinkrbelem: there's more work to do on lives, I think you noticed ;)01:14
raphinkteprrr: no01:15
raphinkteprrr: build your pbuilder with breezy, then upgrade it01:15
raphinkteprrr: it's safer01:15
rbelemraphink: yep01:16
raphinkrbelem: i'm giving you a lot of work, but this package will be nice in the end :)01:16
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rbelemthanks raphink for your review ;-)01:17
raphinkopen-source : the only working environment where people thank you for voluntarily reviewing your work and giving you 2 more hours of it01:18
rbelemraphink: i learning a lot with these fixes01:18
raphinkrbelem: I'm thinking of making a lecture on package reviewing and lives might be a great example of small yet important points to check01:18
rbelemraphink: cool! where? is lecture something like a talk?01:21
raphinkajmitch gave a lecture a month ago or (or was it two months ?) on #ubuntu-motu-school01:21
lucasraphink: is there a wiki page that lists common points to check ?01:21
raphinksince there was UVF coming and we didn't have much we didn't plan another one01:22
raphinklucas: there's ReviewingTips on the wiki01:22
raphinkbut mostly there's Debian references01:22
raphinkhttp://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html is the most ones01:22
raphinks/most ones/main one/01:22
raphinkthen http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/sponsorship_checklist.html is a good reference01:22
raphinkand finally reading revues on REVU helps a lot :)01:22
raphinkwell and I'd say it's a good thing for a reviewer to read documentation on policy01:23
raphinklike debian/control writing documents and so on01:23
raphinkand refer to policy when in doubt01:23
Yagisanraphink: please document this - seems useful ;)01:24
raphinkYagisan: you can do it :)01:24
raphinklike add it as a reference to ReviewingTips :)01:24
Yagisanraphink: I *could* yes, but lack the time. I'll assist where possible, eg by checking your fabulous work01:25
raphinkand I don't lack time ;)01:25
raphinkdoens't take that long to paste two urls on a wiki page really01:26
rbelemraphink: pasted many urls in MOTUDocumentationDraft01:26
rbelemit needs some love. maybe these days ill finish it01:28
raphinkgood :)01:29
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raphinkyeah :)01:57
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pappanhi everybody02:14
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teprrrraptoid, oops. build with dapper already :/02:17
teprrrbtw, do I have to take care of the dependencies of the dependencies?02:17
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teprrrkdelibs4-dev: Depends: libarts1-dev (>= 1.5-rc1) but it is not going to be installed02:20
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rraphinkhmmpf ... not kicked out yet ... crossing fingers02:27
teprrrhaving problems? ;)02:29
raphinkit seems02:29
raphinkit's not funny02:29
raphinkI just log02:29
raphinkand then I get excess flood02:29
raphinkand it closes the connection02:29
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teprrrhmm, should I use cdbs at all for packages?02:32
crimsunteprrr: you're not getting that under current dapper, are you? Both are installable on current i386.02:32
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crimsunteprrr: that's your decision for your own packages.02:33
teprrrcrimsun, seemed to work now.. don't know what was wrong in there.02:34
teprrradded cdbs version requirement similar to katapult, hope it's okay02:34
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raphinkI can't join 10 channels it seems !!02:36
raphinkI get an excess flood02:36
crimsunit depends on the channels02:36
crimsunI'm in 19 on freenode02:36
teprrror maybe it's your client which causes it by handling things unproperly02:36
teprrrhmm, how can I know if the dbuilder was successfully ended? should it display something?02:37
crimsunyou mean pbuilder?02:38
crimsunif it's successful, the files are generated in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/02:39
crimsunyou can also have pbuilder redirect output to a log file; see --logfile02:40
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teprrryup, got the package :p02:40
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crimsunit's usually pretty straightforward. If pbuilder fails, you get a nasty error.02:42
teprrrhmm, kboggle can use dictionaries for its words to check if they're right.. should I suggest or recommend ispell, aspell and hspell?02:43
crimsunthat's up to you02:44
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crimsunit would make sense to at least Suggest one or more as alternates02:44
teprrrnow they're in Recommended02:46
teprrrRecommends: aspell, ispell, hspell02:46
teprrrjust thinking which is better, recommends or suggests for those02:46
crimsunerm, is that the line verbatim?02:47
crimsundoes it really make sense to recommend all three?02:47
crimsunfor instance, aspell is an ispell replacement...02:48
teprrrah, didn't know how I should put them there :)02:48
crimsunuse alternates syntax: aspell | ispell | hspell02:49
crimsunI haven't looked closely at their package statuses, so I don't know offhand if one or more provides a virtual02:50
teprrryup, changed. thanks.02:52
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teprrrdput kboggle_0.4.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes02:57
teprrrso that's the right way to dput? :)02:57
Nafallonot if you aren't a MOTU and are using the default dput settings.02:58
teprrrNafallo, I changed my dput.cf like REVU page said. default_host_main = revu and so on02:59
Nafalloah, never looked at that page myself :-)03:00
crimsunit's always a good idea to specify the host explicitly03:00
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teprrrbut that should be correct, right? :)03:02
zakameheya all :D03:03
zakamewhat's up teprrr :)03:03
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teprrrtrying to upload my first package to REVU :P03:04
YagisanG'day zakame, crimsun, Nafallo, teprrr and any lurkers not mentioned03:04
zakameooh, kewl! :D03:05
zakameheya Yagisan , crimsun , Nafallo and the crew :D03:05
teprrrsame to you Yagisan03:05
teprrrChecksum doesn't match for /home/tpr/storage/kubuntu-packages/kboggle/kboggle_0.4.1-0ubuntu1.dsc03:05
teprrrokay, there we go now.. uploaded :)03:07
Nafallohello to those who wants to be "hellod" :-)03:07
=== Yagisan uploads 2.6GB to his unofficial debian repo and waits for his connection to get hammered
crimsunhi Yagisan, zakame :)03:09
crimsun& Nafallo03:09
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Yagisanzakame: english thanks :)03:10
=== Nafallo HATES this weather!
Nafallo-8 Celsius :-/03:10
zakameYagisan: I can only dream of doing that thru dial-up03:10
teprrr-27C ..03:12
Yagisanzakame: well - it's on my adsl line, and within the next few days approx 20 or so debian users are going to hit it and find they need to upgrade the lot03:12
teprrrwas -31C or so yesterday03:12
teprrrit's getting hot in here :)03:12
Yagisanteprrr: Moscow ??03:12
teprrrYagisan, rovaniemi, finland03:13
teprrrI think it's colder in moscow03:13
YagisanNafallo: I just received a uuencoded windows virus in my email - that's very funny03:14
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Yagisanteprrr: I'd be scared to do a piss in that weather, probably freeze before it hits the ground03:15
azeemYagisan: depends on how much alcohol you drank I guess ;)03:15
teprrrhmm, in which order REVU shows the uploaded packages?03:16
teprrrhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1568 -- though now it's there :)03:16
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teprrrhmm, what's this linda whine? shouldn't source have only po files, not mos..03:17
Yagisanazeem: hmm, that idea may have merit. how soon after pissing does it freeze.03:17
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NafalloYagisan: hehe, atleast you didn't get infected ;-)03:25
YagisanNafallo: it's hard to get infected - wine needs to get better at running viruses03:26
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siretartlaunchpad.net dead?03:30
Mithrandirsiretart: admins already working on it03:31
siretartMithrandir: great. I wanted to close a bug just before it died03:31
=== Nafallo blames siretart for killing launchpad then ;-)
Mithrandirsiretart: fixed now03:33
siretart:) - thank the admin!03:34
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zakameheh, weird03:55
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Yagisannight all04:03
zakameheya Kyral04:04
zakamegn8 Yagisan04:04
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Kyralwhat is debian/dirs used for?04:08
azeemdh_mkinstalldir will create those04:10
zakameto create additional dirs not made by `make install'04:10
Kyralthen why did raphink mention that it wasn't needed in GTKEdit/04:11
azeemwhat's in it?04:11
azeem /usr/bin and /usr/sbin?04:11
Kyralno I killed sbin04:11
KyralI should add /usr/share04:11
Kyralso kill dirs?04:12
azeemthose should be made by the upstream Makefile04:12
Kyraldhinstall takes care of them?04:12
azeemmake install should04:12
Kyralazeem this thing has no install rule ;P04:12
azeemthen ok04:12
azeemKyral: you could automakeify it04:12
azeemas an exercise04:12
KyralI'm installing the files through dh_install04:12
Kyralazeem: Upstream is thinking about it'04:12
azeemthat's fine, then you should leave the dirs04:13
zakameyeah, rebuild the autotools04:13
azeemKyral: or just try without, and see whether it FTBFS04:13
azeemzakame: "it doesn't have a Makefile"04:13
Kyralits okay without04:13
azeemas in, nothing04:13
KyralIt doesn't need Autotools lol04:13
Kyraland since when do we put homepage entries in debian/control?04:13
azeemmany do it04:14
azeemat the end of the long description04:14
Kyralokay I'll modify and reupload it04:14
zakameKyral: I do that, for one04:14
Kyralthose are the only things that raphink had a problem04:14
zakameraphink, master REVU-er :)04:15
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xerxashi guys04:15
xerxasslomo: do you plan to package banshee 0.10.4 ?04:16
xerxasis there a place to do package request ?04:16
xerxaswithin the launchpad ? or anywhere else ?04:16
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persiaxerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates04:19
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xerxaspersia: thanks04:25
xerxaspersia: there's nothing within the launchpad ?04:26
lfittlxerxas: we are working on that ;)04:26
xerxaslfittl: cool04:27
marcin`hello MOTU04:28
marcin`I finally uploaded my first package to REVU and my gpg keys seems to be ok04:28
marcin`but I got few questions and hope that someone here could help me04:28
marcin`to remove mess in my gpg keys I just removed everything from my ~/.gnupg directory04:29
marcin`and I generated new key as normal user04:29
marcin`and this key was added automagically to my keyring in my user account04:30
marcin`but not into super user keyring04:30
marcin`so I had to import key as secret key on my root account04:30
marcin`now I can build and sign my packages04:30
marcin`unfortunately now dpkg-buildpackage keeps asking me for my passphrase to unlock key04:32
Hieronymusmarcin`: what package?04:32
marcin`and I neet to input this twice every time I build package04:32
Hieronymusmarcin`: you need to sign two things04:33
marcin`and that's just annoying04:33
Hieronymuschange your config so that it remembers your password for x minutes04:33
marcin`Hieronymus: could you tell me where can I set this?04:33
marcin`another thing is that previously I also could build deb packages and never had to input passphrase04:34
marcin`(to be honest I don't remember if these packages were signed)04:35
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Hieronymusmarcin`: did you use -us -uc?04:35
marcin`anyway - currently when I build package I have to input passphrase twice and then again in debsign...04:35
marcin`Hieronymus: -us -uc with which command?04:36
Hieronymusmarcin`: it's somewhere in the configuration. I'll fetch my keys, brb04:36
azeemmarcin`: dpkg-buildpackage, probably04:36
marcin`right it's in dpkg-buildpackage manual04:38
marcin`-us -uc Do not sign the source package or the .changes file, respectively.04:38
marcin`hmm so, do I need to sign packages for REVU or not?04:39
azeemyou can sign them later on with debsign04:39
Hieronymusmarcin`: yes04:39
azeemdebsign <foo>.changes04:39
marcin`hmmmm but it seems that pbuilder doesn't sign packages by default while dpkg-buildpackage signs04:40
azeemthen pbuilder probably calls dpkg-buildpackage with -us -uc04:41
marcin`(I use dpkg-buildpackage to build packages for my current breezy and then pbuilder to generate dapper packages)04:41
Hieronymusmarcin`: I think you can set use-agent in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf04:41
HieronymusSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto section Tips and Tricks04:42
=== Kyral goes over the Bounty List
zakame!seen sistpoty04:43
marcin`Hieronymus: ok, thank you very much04:45
siretartzakame: I've seen him yesterday04:50
Kyralhas anyone actually claimed a bounty here?04:51
marcin`Hieronymus: hmm the only problem is that there is no gpg-agent package in breezy04:52
zakamesiretart: well I just saw ChangingTheOrigTarball04:53
zakameI wanted to suggest a DBS-style repackaging of bzip2 tarballs04:53
zakame(which one can do with cdbs' tarball.mk)04:53
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Hieronymusmarcin`: gpa04:55
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siretartzakame: I don't think this is a common packaging practice and not the widely used, no?05:03
zakamesiretart: true... must be tiredness setting in :P05:10
zakameanyhow, gn8 all :D05:10
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slomoxerxas: it's already packaged and in universe ;)05:32
siretarthi slomo05:33
siretartslomo: did siggi respond to you?05:33
Yagisandholbach: just browsing https://wiki.edubuntu.org/AptGetOrg and noticed something interesting05:33
dholbachfire away05:34
Yagisandholbach: you a) actually did pick up my ubuntu repo, and b) more importantly for me it all FTBFS05:34
Yagisandholbach: the fact that all of it FTBFS concerns me05:34
dholbachNice :-)05:34
slomosiretart: nope :(05:34
dholbachWhich one is it?05:34
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Yagisandholbach: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/ubuntucurrentmainrestricteduniversemultiverse05:34
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Yagisandholbach: I know that built in breezy05:35
dholbachYagisan: I will have a look what goes wrong and tell you.05:35
Yagisandholbach: do you have the logs ? I'd like to fix whatever is broken05:35
siretartslomo: perhaps I was too rude in my mail :(05:35
dholbachYagisan: no, the script doesn't keep them05:35
slomosiretart: hm, imho not... let's wait, maybe he responds this weekend :)05:36
Yagisandholbach: and I think I have the distinction of being in the blacklist no files from deng-jdoom-addons are there05:36
dholbachmvo added it to the black list05:36
dholbachDunno what went wrong.05:36
dholbachWe had some builds which *never* ended.05:36
Yagisandholbach: why ? (it is a huge file though, and I have a slow connection)05:37
dholbachYeah, might be that this was the case.05:37
Yagisandholbach: almost 400MB .orig for it05:38
dholbachMight have been a reason, yes.05:38
Yagisandholbach: thanks for double checking why they FTBFS.05:40
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persiaHieronymus: Just FYI, all the "Missing .desktop file" bugs use autogenerated .desktop files.  I'd welcome suggestions to the script at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile05:55
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Hieronymuspersia: oh, okay05:58
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\shthe only way is up...freelancing for 2 weeks...I had a good day :)06:19
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\shsiretart: ping06:23
xerxasslomo, do you plan on packaging latest banshee ?06:23
tsengxerxas: erm06:23
slomoxerxas: it's already packaged and in debian and ubuntu06:23
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\shevening lamont__06:33
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lamont__\sh: morning06:34
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\shlamont__: dunno if I should ask you or kinnison, but do you know, if the buildd chroots for the soyuz buildd engines are always clean? means, are they always be newly created?06:35
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lamont__\sh: technically, that's a Kinnison question, however: soyuz untar's a chroot, dist-upgrades it and then does the build06:36
lamont__then nukes the chroot, and goes on to the next package06:37
\shnukes means, it will be thrown away, and the system is untaring a new chroot and so on?06:38
\shbut I will ask kinnison :)06:38
lamont__that is, that's my understanding of the process06:39
lamont__alias nuke="rm -rf"06:39
lamont__"because once you have tac-nukes, everything begins to look like a small city"06:40
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\shhehe :)06:45
\shok..thx for the info so far :)06:45
\shlooks like I have to learn java06:45
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siretart\sh: pong06:50
\shsiretart: 5mins..will query u06:51
LaserJockmorning everybody!06:51
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siretart\sh: regarding your clean buildd chroots: sbuild (the one in the sbuild package, not from wanna-build) has some preliminary support for sbuild, which supports chroots on lvm snapshots. once sbuild supports that, then you can guarantee clean chroots :)06:52
azeemsiretart: you mean schroot somewhere in there, I assume06:55
azeems/support for sbuild/support for schroot/06:56
siretartazeem: excatly, my bad06:56
siretartschroot really rocks. I love it06:56
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LaserJocksiretart: what's the difference between dchroot and schroot?07:01
siretartLaserJock: I think azeem or rleigh can answer this question better than I could. schroot is a reimplementation of dchroot with security in mind. It adds cool features like a hook dir where script which bind-mounts /home and stuff07:02
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LaserJocksiretart: ok, so is it usable and everything. I accidently found it on packages.u.c yesterday when I was looking for dchroot (s and d being so close together on the keyboard ;-) )07:07
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azeemI have to admit I never tried schroot07:09
siretartLaserJock: I use schroot on my laptop. the lvm snapshot feature is really neat: I can satisfy build dependencies on a real clean chroot and can play as much as I want, without the need from pbuilder. Great stuff for playing and experimenting :)07:09
siretartdrawback: you need lvm07:09
LaserJockhmm, I don't know a thing about lvm07:10
stratusLaserJock, read the lvm howto.07:12
LaserJockoh, that's cool07:14
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stratusLaserJock, there's a little overhead (of course) but it provides useful flexibility07:15
LaserJockis it safe?07:15
stratusLaserJock, i use it since 2002 (including some servers) without notice any bug on the code.07:16
stratusLaserJock, i've some really weird stuff with both software raid and lvm, nothing new but no fs corruptions (2.4 kernels).07:16
stratusLaserJock, i even resize xfs logical volumes online without problems. I've backups but they weren't necessary yet. :)07:18
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LaserJockstratus: hmm, but you need to start from scratch to create them?07:19
stratusLaserJock, not if you've spare partitions and/or harddisks on a machine.07:20
LaserJockstratus: interesting, maybe it's time rearranging ;-)07:21
LaserJock*for some rearranging07:21
stratusLaserJock, you don't need to put your root (/) on top of lvm. I usually use let / sit over software raid on servers and do the lvm thing over raid with key directories (it depends for each server family)07:21
stratusLaserJock, my file server at home contains two harddisks one with 13gb and other with 120gb. I've the / over software raid (mirror) on the two disks and other array (stripe, not mirror) with lvm on top.07:23
LaserJockhmm, I'm thinking of reinstalling my system soon, I think I will try LVM out then.07:26
stratusLaserJock, cool.07:27
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LaserJockhmm, somehow I need to make a list of apps I need to install once I get Ubuntu back on07:33
xerxastseng,  ?07:33
azeemLaserJock: dpkg --get-selections07:35
stratusLaserJock, hacks on ubuntu-meta and do your own metapackage.07:35
LaserJockazeem: oh, that helps. thanks07:36
LaserJockstratus: I've been thinking about doing that07:36
azeemLaserJock: and dpkg --set-selections, later on07:36
stratusLaserJock, i did.07:36
jamessanis there something like that with aptitude that will maintain your "autoinstall" flags?07:36
LaserJockazeem: oh my gosh, you are my hero!07:37
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dholbachHave a nice evening and weekend.07:56
\shdholbach: you spamed the planet :)07:56
\shand treenaks too07:57
dholbachNafallo too07:57
\shno not treenaks, nafallo :)07:57
dholbachand it wasn't me07:57
dholbachIt was Planet.07:57
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\shdholbach: you see, planet is heavily broken...but no one believes me07:57
dholbachI doubt that LiveJournal sent updates?07:57
dholbachOh well.07:57
dholbachSee you guys.07:57
\shit's planet :) have a nice weekend :)07:57
jamessanLJ change their URLs so planet thinks everything is new07:59
\shdon't use LJ07:59
hubgah, hugin rejected for license issues08:00
hubVIGRA license08:00
hubI'll have to study that more closely08:00
hubjamessan: LJ suck08:00
hub\sh: LJ is broken, not planet08:01
\shhub: planet is broken too08:01
hub\sh: LJ decide to change the URL of the articles08:01
jamessanhub: I'm not disputing that :)08:01
hub\sh: <id> changed08:01
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\shhub: well...a check of similarity could be done by planet...title and content check..if planet would use a real db backend08:02
hub\sh: planet check the one he has seen08:02
lucashey all08:02
Treenaks\sh: I upgraded my blog without spamming planet ;)08:02
\shTreenaks: mea culpa...I corrected myself :)08:03
Treenaks\sh: np :)08:04
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\shso from next week on I have home office, I'll get 300 bucks per day after taxes and first of all limited to 2 weeks...after those 2 weeks it will be decided, if I can have a employee contract, or at least freelancer contract for 6 months first...this helps a lot somehow08:06
lucasworking for whom ?08:06
hubthat's cool08:07
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stratuslucas, are  yout at lp, right? maybe you're interestd in subscribe to ajmitch specification about MOTUs and Debian.08:08
lucasthe not-updated one ?08:09
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stratusi dunno08:09
lucasI am not aware of a recent spec by ajmitch on the topic08:09
lucasso it must be the one written in october/november, we was never finished08:09
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stratuslucas, you're right. the spec itself needs to be finished08:11
stratusajmitch, wake up.08:12
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\shgoing to bed...08:57
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ajmitchstratus: I am awake09:15
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stratusajmitch, morning. What's up with that old ubuntu x debian spec that you started ?09:16
ajmitchstratus: it was intended as a discussion item at UBZ09:16
ajmitchbut didn't get onto the list of topics to talk about09:17
ajmitchit could probably be updated & filled in with some info09:17
stratusajmitch, yes i think we should update the spec.09:18
ajmitchsince I think we've agreed on a number of things in MOTU meetings that haven't been written down properly09:18
stratussounds good, can you do that? i'm a newcomer so i haven't been in any MOTU meeting yet09:18
ajmitchbut I'm sure you've got some good ideas from the debian side :)09:19
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stratusajmitch, yes i've.09:21
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raphinksomeone _really_ has to explain me09:22
Kyralexplain what?09:22
raphinkwhy since I got my cloak on here I can't join 10 channels without being thrown away for excess flood09:22
raphinkby the server09:22
raphinkthis is horrible09:22
raphinkI'm getting crazy09:22
stratusyou should ask freenode staff09:22
Kyralwhich server?09:22
raphinkI used to be on 20 channels all the time09:22
raphinkthen I got my cloack today09:22
raphinkset it as suitable, with a second nick linked to my main one and all09:23
raphinkand now when I join with all my channels09:23
raphinkafter 1 minute I get a "[error]  excess flood" message and get thrown out09:23
raphinkI spammed all my chans with this this afternoon09:23
raphinkgot banned from #debian-devel because of this09:24
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raphinkthat gets me ... hmm ... nervous09:24
ajmitchraphink: it was hugely irritating for those of us in there :)09:24
raphinkI guess so ajmitch I guess so09:24
raphinkbut imagine how irritating it is to me09:24
ajmitchit was temporary09:24
jamessanajmitch: yeah, but that's no reason to ban. /ignore raphink JOINS PARTS QUITS09:24
raphinkto not be able to log to IRC09:24
ajmitchjamessan: then everyone has to do that just because of 1 user09:25
raphinkajmitch: I'm still banned on #debian-devel09:25
raphinkand I still have this pb09:25
raphinkright now I'm only on #ubuntu-motu09:25
raphinkcause if I log on more channels I might be thrown out09:25
raphinkand then I get a 3 minutes lag09:25
ajmitchwhat broken irc client?09:25
raphinkajmitch: no09:25
raphinkit began to do that ever since I got my cloack today09:25
raphinkkonversation works great09:26
raphinkat least it has always worked great09:26
raphinkwasn't updated lately09:26
ajmitchtime for a change :)09:26
jamessanraphink: your irc client might not gracefully handle having your hostmask changed on it09:26
raphinkand I see no reason why it wouldn't work great09:26
raphinkapart from getting a new vhost09:26
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jamessanalthough I'd be surprised if that was the case09:26
raphinkI already had a vhost09:26
raphinkthat I had set myself09:26
aa_well, none of my business, but really join and part are part of the IRC protocol09:26
raphinkaa_: so?09:27
KyralMalone 2905309:27
UbugtuMalone bug 29053: "beagle binary is uninstallable" Fix req. for: beagle (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/2905309:27
ajmitchKyral: and?09:27
aa_so whoever is whining (yes I know he is the big boss) should suck it in09:27
ajmitchaa_: huh?09:27
jamessanaa_: PRIVMSG is part of the protocol too and people get banned for using that all the time09:27
Kyraljust making sure it took ;P Had to link it to a Debian bug09:27
tsengKyral: sorry to hear that, im accepting patches for FTBFS09:27
tsengwhy is it linked to a debian bug09:28
aa_jamessan: but that is a politeness issue. And I disagree with that too.09:28
Kyralbecause the Debian bug is the exact same thing09:28
ajmitchaa_: when someone joins & parts several times a minute, it is very irritating09:28
aa_ajmitch: you should ignore it, really.09:28
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raphinkok were shall I reach freenode staff ?09:28
KyralDebian #34812309:28
UbugtuError: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: need more than 1 value to unpack09:28
aa_anyway, how did I get involved in this? Have a nice evening all.09:28
ajmitchaa_: and you expect 400 people in a channel to ignore it, just because of 1 user?09:29
tsengKyral: gmime actually breaks the build09:29
aa_ajmitch: oh yikes, no, not 400 people. I only heard one person whining. :) Anyway, I am wrng, blah blah blah.09:29
tsengcvs builds because thye moved off of gmime09:29
Kyralsorry...I should have checked09:29
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Kyralif they already give the Debian BTS number in the Report should i just link it there?09:35
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HieronymusWhy is there a pre-release of make in dapper?09:54
KyralBecause Dapper is Devel?09:54
KyralI dunno actually09:54
raphinknot thrown yet09:57
raphinklet's wait a see09:57
crimsunHieronymus: synced from Sid09:58
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thierry_does anyone have time to review my package? I just reuploaded to fix some stuff http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=157110:36
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thierry_siretart : does you have the time to check my package?10:40
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phanatichi people10:41
HieronymusCan I remove requires in upstreams Makefile?10:50
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JohnnyMastHieronymus you need to patch them10:53
thierry_JohnnyMast : can you review my package?10:53
JohnnyMastyou can do what you want besides changing the source .. but if you need to patch stuff10:53
JohnnyMastthierry_ whats that ?10:54
thierry_just reuploaded and I want to know if it seems ok10:54
JohnnyMastok but i cant advocate i cant just look at it10:54
JohnnyMastim impressed thierry_10:56
HieronymusJohnnyMast: offcourse10:56
JohnnyMastbut files installed into /usr/bin /usr/sbin need man pages10:57
Hieronymusthierry_: why do you have "Initial packaging from scratch"?10:57
JohnnyMastit would be a good thing to add them via docbook thierry_ from there it should be find10:57
JohnnyMastHieronymus that doesnt mether10:57
JohnnyMastits just 2 word extra10:57
JohnnyMastfrom scratch that is10:58
thierry_JohnnyMast : how to I add them via docbook? any howto to propose me?10:58
JohnnyMastcheck out ttb on revu (my old package)10:59
JohnnyMasthold on10:59
JohnnyMastexample of a dockbook man page http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512220710/ttb-0.9.4/debian/ttb.1.docbook10:59
JohnnyMastdocbook2x-man debian/ttb.1.docbook11:00
JohnnyMast^^ in rules file11:00
JohnnyMastand add dockbook2x to depends11:00
JohnnyMastthats all11:00
JohnnyMastand dont forget to check every build with pbuilder11:00
JohnnyMasta double check doesnt do harm11:01
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Hieronymusthierry_: "from scratch" confuses me. Was this package in Ubuntu before? If so, you should save the Changelog11:01
JohnnyMastyes thats true11:02
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Hieronymusif not, why not use what everbody uses - "Initial Release."11:02
JohnnyMastKyral hey m811:02
JohnnyMastlong time noo see11:02
KyralI'e been here11:02
JohnnyMastsame here11:02
thierry_JohnnyMast : ajmitch used it in a presentation at motu-school, I tough this was ok11:02
JohnnyMastbut i was on vacaction :)11:02
JohnnyMastthierry_ well he should mention that /usr/bin and /usr/sbin binarys need man pages11:03
JohnnyMastbut he was talking more about the packing then the strickt rules we have11:04
JohnnyMastubuntu is more strickt then debian on packages11:04
tsengJohnnyMast: eh?11:04
Hieronymusit's not11:04
JohnnyMastHieronymus explain why not ?11:04
JohnnyMasti dont know what you have heared then ??11:05
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thierry_    </author>11:05
thierry_    <copyright>11:05
thierry_      <year>2005</year>11:05
thierry_      <holder>Johnny Mast</holder> is it the librairy author or me?11:05
JohnnyMastwe follow the rules more strickt11:05
JohnnyMastthierry_ depends on the agreement with upstream11:06
JohnnyMastif they told you .. your maintainer meaning you fix the box we fix on ubuntu then your the holder/maintainer11:06
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JohnnyMastlike im maintainer for ttb this means im alone are allowed to fix box for this packege in ubuntu11:07
crimsunthat's not true11:07
JohnnyMastif the name + email is in there the developer can fix bugs or any hopefull11:07
crimsunthat means you're the primary contact, and you are assumed to have primary maintenance over it, but we maintain universe and multiverse packages as a team11:08
HieronymusJohnnyMast: I think Ubuntu is less strict on packages11:08
Hieronymusthierry_: isn't it a library? Libraries don't need manpages AFAIK11:08
JohnnyMastHieronymus hmm nope11:08
crimsunthere is no sense of ownership over Ubuntu packages.11:08
JohnnyMastcrimsun yes well thats what i ment .. sorry thierry_ to confuse you there11:09
thierry_JohnnyMast : so I do need a manpage right?11:09
JohnnyMastyes you do11:09
JohnnyMastubuntu follows the rules of litnian11:09
JohnnyMastubuntu says 0 litnian errors / warnings are allowed11:10
JohnnyMastit should be clean11:10
HieronymusUbuntu and Debian follow the Debian policy11:10
tsengyou are totally making stuff up11:10
Hieronymuslintian checks for Debian policy errors11:10
HieronymusWarnings are allowed, errors are not, in both Debian and Ubuntu11:10
JohnnyMastwicjh ubuntu follows11:10
JohnnyMastyou wont get votes with man page warnings im sory to report that but its true11:11
HieronymusJohnnyMast: not everything needs a manpage11:11
JohnnyMastthierry_: it would be a good thing to read the debian new maintainer manual11:11
JohnnyMastHieronymus it should11:12
HieronymusJohnnyMast: no11:12
JohnnyMasti dont want to release a package that  doestn follow the rules11:12
JohnnyMastHieronymus i hope you have read the debian new maintainer manual11:12
JohnnyMastyou should have11:13
HieronymusJohnnyMast: I have11:13
JohnnyMastit has a list of does and donts11:13
JohnnyMastthen you know one could not be added without manuals11:13
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JohnnyMastin /usr/bin /usr/sbin11:13
HieronymusJohnnyMast: only programs and config files need manpages11:13
JohnnyMastor anything above /usr ex /usr/local ...11:14
JohnnyMastand that is just what we are talking about now aint we11:14
thierry_JohnnyMast : ok, anything else wrong with my package?11:15
JohnnyMastlibfxruby looks like software to me11:15
thierry_JohnnyMast : it's only bindings11:15
JohnnyMastthierry_ no my compliments it looks okey even the copyright file wich is a common made mistake but it looks okey :)11:15
thierry_:D great, now are you a MOTU?11:16
JohnnyMastnow im sorry11:17
JohnnyMastbut i can see if i see one on my contact list being online11:17
thierry_JohnyMast, ok thanks anyway for the reviewing...11:17
alleesomeone have sometime to have a look at codeine (KDE vidio player)? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=154411:17
JohnnyMast(just checking but i dont thing so)11:17
JohnnyMastthierry_ nope contact me tomorrow i will be glad to forward ur package to some motu11:18
JohnnyMastslomo are you here ?11:18
JohnnyMastslomo thierry_ here made a great package its urs to vote11:18
JohnnyMastthierry_ dont wurry i will get you some one tomorrow pm me and ule be fine11:19
JohnnyMastbut it seems that Hieronymus and tseng disagree somewhere so im gonna read somethings again11:20
thierry_JohnnyMast : k thanks :)11:20
HieronymusJohnnyMast: Ubuntu is not more strict about packages; look at quake3 which had 2 advocates11:20
JohnnyMastno problem11:20
JohnnyMastHieronymus its experiance11:20
JohnnyMastbtw debian sucks ass11:20
crimsunlet's not disparage our parent distro.11:21
JohnnyMastdont wurry i still use debian :)11:21
thierry_JohnnyMast : do I have something to add in the copyright file for my man page?11:21
HieronymusJohnnyMast: it doesn't11:21
JohnnyMasthmm nope11:21
Hieronymusthierry_: you might want to indent the actual license information11:22
JohnnyMastHieronymus yes the discriminate11:22
Hieronymus(with two spaces)11:22
JohnnyMastthat all the *** diff there iss11:22
JohnnyMastHieronymus dont tell me that aint true because it is11:22
phanaticwhat's the best way to remove config.{sub,guess} stuff from a diff?11:22
JohnnyMastbecause if im disabled but the best developer around  could never be a debian member11:23
thierry_Hieronymus : like  http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/codeine-0601182140/codeine-1.0/debian/copyright ?11:23
JohnnyMastsooooo there for they suck11:23
Hieronymusthierry_: yes, that indentation11:23
JohnnyMasti have to agree i like it11:24
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JohnnyMastHieronymus debiaan has a thing with invalid ppl11:24
JohnnyMastthey could not get there key signed even if there name was bill gates11:24
JohnnyMasti hate there new policy11:24
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Hieronymuswhy do you hate Debian?11:24
JohnnyMastbecause of that yes11:25
tsengwhat are "invalid people"11:25
tsengi have had several debian developers sign my key11:25
JohnnyMastnot the os but the way they are thinking11:25
JohnnyMastivalid ppl == disabled ppl11:25
JohnnyMastdevelopers in a wheel chair11:25
JohnnyMastgod bless ubuntu for being open11:26
crimsunwell, differences of opinion aside, we owe a lot to Debian, and we strive to maintain a good working relationship with the maintainers11:26
tsengsorry to hear that, but if you try you can understand why people dont sign keys if you cant have personal contact11:26
JohnnyMasttseng look11:27
JohnnyMasttseng trust dont come in a sign11:27
JohnnyMasttrust comes in what some one does11:27
JohnnyMastthats lame for starters11:27
tsengsee thats the problem11:27
tsengyou cant trust what someone does if you cant trust who they are11:27
HieronymusJohnnyMast: ever heard of the Web of Trust?11:28
JohnnyMasti trust some one on irc more then the fag who shows me me hers /his passport11:28
tsengwithout a web of trust validated by something like GPG there is no saying that JohnnyMast doing good one day is the same JohnnyMast doing bad the next11:28
JohnnyMastbecause for example Hieronymus here11:28
JohnnyMasti know hes a hard worker11:28
JohnnyMasti know what he does for ubuntu11:28
JohnnyMasti know how hes like11:28
tsengand when he leaves i can change my nick to Hieronymus11:29
JohnnyMastyou dont get that from a passport like debian claims11:29
JohnnyMastno need because its registered11:29
tsengby a really weak password passed in clear text11:30
JohnnyMastplus i remember hosts11:30
alleeJohnnyMast: signing does not say he is great/bad.  Just says I confirm that he is how he claims to be.  Not less, not more11:30
JohnnyMastits still bad11:30
JohnnyMastsigning is just going in blind11:30
alleeJohnnyMast: no.  That's what the web of trust is about11:30
JohnnyMastand thats a fact !!11:30
JohnnyMastmy passpot doesnt say my nick11:30
LaserJockyou still have to have a signed key for uploading in Ubuntu11:30
JohnnyMasti signed the code11:31
JohnnyMasti am my self11:31
LaserJockbut how do we know that?11:31
HieronymusLaserJock: Web of Trust11:31
Hieronymussigning keys11:31
Hieronymusbut he doesn't want to :/11:31
JohnnyMastby checking my public key11:31
JohnnyMastthe only thing you need is your email and your gpg key11:32
JohnnyMastno fake debian rasist polecy11:32
LaserJockbut that only works if you know that that email and key belong to the right person11:32
JohnnyMastow and you know that by seeing the pasport ??11:32
tsengthere is more to it than that11:33
JohnnyMastno you dont11:33
tsengi see your passport, you gpg id, and your email11:33
Mithrandirhi tseng11:33
tsengi mail to that email your key11:33
tsenghi Mithrandir :)11:33
JohnnyMastneeh thats not how it should be11:33
JohnnyMastthat not being a communty11:33
JohnnyMastthats checking trust11:33
tsengneeh well stop calling debian ass and racist please11:33
JohnnyMasta community is trusting11:34
LaserJockwell, for uploading you need trust11:34
tsengI am going to have to ask this to close here.11:34
tsengthanks :)11:34
JohnnyMasttseng im sorry but thats just how i feel it .. i stop it from now on ...11:34
tsengJohnnyMast: using inflamatory language to get your point across usually just invites opposition instead of symapathy for your cause11:35
tsengJohnnyMast: (for better leverage in future debate :)11:35
JohnnyMastbut this is why i love ubuntu ppl11:36
tsengMithrandir: beagle is all kinds of broken :/11:36
JohnnyMasttrust is in what you do11:36
JohnnyMastnot in who you are11:36
JohnnyMastor what you are11:36
Mithrandirtseng: suckage.  why?11:36
tsengMithrandir: hm, gmime update11:36
tsengcvs fixes the issue conveniently11:36
Mithrandirtseng: it's been broken in dapper for a while 'cause of some other -cil package update.11:37
tsengby dumping in a whole new bit of code xdg-sharp and changing all the calls11:37
tsenger, xdgmime11:37
JohnnyMastim off to bed i got a few merges to do in the morning wich i should have done ages ago11:41
JohnnyMastfor that im sorry but i just came back from vacation11:41
JohnnyMasttseng gnight my friend :)11:41
Mithrandirtseng: so you'll have a fix in RSN, then?11:42
tsengMithrandir: cvs also has Holmes, a whole new UI11:47
tsengjoe said he would release 0.1.5 off of 0.1.4, not cvs11:47
Mithrandirwe're in UVF, though11:48
tsengwhich may or may not work11:48
tseng0.2.0 will have Holmes11:48
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tsengMithrandir: every way is pretty ugly :)11:50
Mithrandirtseng: 3 year support.  So, yes.11:50
tsenghm beagle is not in main11:50
tsengfor dapper11:50
Mithrandirtrue, but still11:51
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