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marjohi ara!15:57
arahello marjo15:57
skaet_hi ara, marjo, pitti :)15:59
skaet_heh, gangs all arriving.16:00
skaet_looks like we can get an on time start as the first few are here.  :)16:00
MootBotMeeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet_.16:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:00
skaet_Thank you to everyone who helped get 10.04.2 out the door!16:00
skaet_This meeting will focus on the SRU interlocks and hand offs, and looking at where we are, and what's needed to get back in the cadence groove again.16:01
skaet_[TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin16:01
sconklinCurrent status:16:01
sconklinTesting for ec2 kernels has not been completed, so16:01
sconklinwe held off uploading new kernels to build on16:01
sconklinFriday. I am waiting for more information about16:01
sconklinthe ec2 failures but the last status I know is:16:01
sconklinLucid ec2 was thought to have a problem, but I have16:01
sconklinbeen told on irc that it's OK. However, the tracking16:01
sconklinbugs have not been updated, and until we get a definite16:01
sconklinresolution, we'll hold off preparing th enext Lucid16:01
sconklinMaverick apparently does have a problem, but it turns16:02
sconklinout that it may be a regression that appeared several16:02
sconklinreleases ago. I'm also waiting for more information16:02
sconklinabout testing results for this. If it turns out that16:02
sconklinthis is the case, we will have to decide whether to16:02
sconklingo ahead and ship this kernel with the known bug16:02
sconklinwhich is already in the field, or to hold Maverick16:02
sconklinupdates until the root cause is found. Since16:02
sconklinMaverick ec2 kernels are a flavour built from the16:02
sconklinmaster branch for Maverick (i.e. there is not a16:02
sconklinseparate ec2 source base), any hold to Maverick16:02
sconklinmust apply to all Maverick kernels other than16:02
sconklinI expect further updates on the ec2 kernels today.16:02
sconklinSource packages have been prepared for upload for16:02
sconklinDapper, Hardy, and most of Karmic, and are ready16:02
sconklinfor building on the kernel PPA. We will wrap up16:02
sconklinthe rest of the Karmic packages today, and wait16:02
sconklinto proceed until we know about Lucid and Maverick16:02
skaet_go ara16:03
=== hakimsheriff_ is now known as hakimsheriff
arawhen are you taking the go-no go decision? who is doing the further testing on those?16:03
sconklinI'm awaiting a status report from Stefan Bader about the ec2 kernels, should have it very soon and then will circulate that by email. He's testing right now16:04
vanhoofsconklin: please let me know once the decision has been made16:05
sconklinvanhoof: Will do.16:05
arasconklin, OK, thanks. Please update the tracking bugs as well, there are people subscribed that will be interested16:05
skaet_sconklin: can you list the explicit tracking bugs that we should all be following?16:05
sconklinI'm not sure of the bugs releted to the specific failures in ec2.16:06
sconklinThe master tracking bugs are all listed here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html16:06
marjoskaet: QA team is tracking this one for Maverick:16:06
pedro_bug 725089 might be one, that's the bug we found during our testing:16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72508916:06
ubottuUbuntu bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New]16:07
marjosconklin: that bug is assigned to jjohansen, is he the correct assignee?16:08
sconklinmarjo: Yes16:08
skaet_sconklin:  the wiki pages has a lot of bugs listed, and it isn't clear to me on it which ones the status tracking are going on in.16:08
marjosconklin: ack16:08
skaet_which specific one for maverick and lucid should I be looking at for this cycle?16:09
sconklinskaet_: you can tell from the bug title:16:09
sconklinlinux: 2.6.32-29.58 -proposed tracker16:09
sconklinfor example. That's the master tracker for the -proposed kernel16:09
bjfskaet_, if you look at the Maverick section, the one with the big red X icon next to it is the tracking bug which has a failure on it16:09
skaet_723335 linux: 2.6.35-27.48 -proposed tracker16:10
skaet_716532 linux: 2.6.35-27.47 -proposed tracker16:10
sconklinI think that th etracking bugs for ec2 should have been set to verification-failed, but they weren't16:10
skaet_709352 linux: 2.6.35-26.45 -proposed tracker16:10
skaet_there are mulitple proposed trackers, which should be used, and when?16:11
bjfskaet, you match the version in the title with the version in proposed16:12
sconklinwhich is just above the bugs for that kernel on the same page16:12
skaet_sconklin, bjf - will work with you offline then on the subject.   I do see now, but think if I'm confused, others probably are as well.16:14
skaet_any other questions?16:14
skaet_[TOPIC] HW certification - ara16:15
MootBotNew Topic:  HW certification - ara16:15
arahello again :)16:15
araOur testing results for both Maverick and Lucid are going very well. As usual the reports can be found at16:15
ara[LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/16:15
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/16:15
araThere are some desktops that are misbehaving, and we are troubleshooting them now, but nothing indicates so far that those could be kernel regressions.16:15
araAnyway, we will be updating the tracking bugs today, with all this information. But so far, thumbs up from us.16:15
araAlso, tomorrow I won't be able to attend the Kernel meeting, sconklin, but the tracking bugs will be updated from us by then.16:16
marjoara: thx, looking forward to it16:16
sconklinara: ack16:16
skaet_brendand: go16:16
brendandre: misbehaving desktops, they are behaving better now :)16:16
skaet_ara and brendand,  thanks!16:17
skaet_[TOPIC] QA status - marjo16:17
MootBotNew Topic:  QA status - marjo16:17
marjohi folks16:17
marjo* Hardy testing done16:18
marjo* Lucid and Maverick testing16:18
marjo- Lucid completed. lucid https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-lucid-2.6.32-29.5816:18
marjo- Maverick – regression found  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-maverick-2.6.35-27.4816:18
marjo- Bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/725089 assigned to jjohansen16:18
ubottuUbuntu bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New]16:18
skaet_Thanks marjo16:19
marjoskaet_ go ahead?!16:19
skaet_how is this week going to work with alpha3 coming out for your team in terms of the new maverick kernel showing up?16:19
marjoskaet_ will be challenging :)16:20
skaet_marjo: ack16:20
skaet_any other questions?16:20
marjoskaet_ hggdh will be most affected, i.e. server ISO testing16:20
bjfmarjo, you are doing iso testing this week ?16:21
skaet_bjf, yes, alpha 3 comes out on March 3rd.16:21
marjobjf: yes, natty alpha 3 is due this thursday16:21
bjfmarjo, next week will be the week for qa regression on a new maverick16:22
marjobjf: you seem surprised?16:22
bjfmarjo, not at all surprised16:22
marjobjf: yes, we will be available again for SRU kernel testing next week (after alpha3 is out)16:22
bjfmarjo, then i don't see where the conflict is between iso testing and maverick -proposed testing16:23
skaet_[TOPIC] general SRU status - pitti16:23
MootBotNew Topic:  general SRU status - pitti16:23
pittinothign really noteworthy here, as we don't have a coming deadline for a point release16:23
skaet_how are the SRU validation backlogs doing?16:24
pittilucid still looks okay, as we flushed it for .216:24
pittiwe have some 3 or 4 proposed packages which are very old16:25
* skaet_ nods16:25
pitti(but that isn't unusual either)16:25
pittiI usually give a warning for them in the bugs after half a year, and kill them from -proposed after another month16:25
skaet_ok, wasn't sure of the pattern, and some did look a bit old.16:26
pittibut that affects stuff like eclipse in lucid, not core things like eglibc16:26
skaet_thanks pitti.16:26
skaet_thanks,   sorry was commenting in the flow.16:27
skaet_any other questions?16:27
skaet_[TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof16:27
MootBotNew Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof16:27
vanhoofnews to me16:28
vanhoofcurrent -proposed, or next cycle?16:28
skaet_next cycle16:28
skaet_was the though,  but if you've got concerns right now, feel free to raise.16:28
vanhoofwe may have an interesting i915 patch, which needs a bit more testing, and then proper review ... that is the most pressing thing on my plate at the moment16:29
vanhoofI'll know more once we get a bit more testing done16:29
vanhoofas for the current -proposed, we're in good shape, just monitoring the release as it holds a few key bug fixes within it16:29
skaet_thanks vanhoof!   questions?16:30
skaet_[TOPIC] Support priorities - martins16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Support priorities - martins16:30
Guest78155just sent you a long list16:30
Guest78155but for now, the status of the likewise open16:30
Guest78155need to fix my id, this is martins16:31
zullikewise open?16:31
ubottuUbuntu bug 534629 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Lucid) "AssumeDefaultDomain does not work" [Undecided,New]16:31
Guest78155yes, looks like it is commited16:32
Guest78155I just need to understand if it will go into the next point release16:33
Guest78155make sense?16:33
skaet_Guest78155, can we get its priorities set  so it gets into the right focus queues?16:33
Guest78155skaet_:  sure I will have it adjusted16:34
skaet_thanks!  in addition to importance, please make sure its targetted to milestone
Guest78155skaet_: I have a few others that I will want to cover with you off line, that is the one that I am tracking now16:35
Guest78155skaet_: sure will do16:35
skaet_Guest78155, sounds good.   Will work with you on it off line.16:35
skaet_thanks for letting us know which is on your hot list.16:35
skaet_any other questions?16:36
skaet_[TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all16:36
Guest78155skaet_: not now, I am good16:36
MootBotNew Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all16:36
skaet_ara: go16:36
arain the StableReleaseCadence documentation the tag documented for tracking bugs is kernel-tracking-bug, but lately they have been tagged as kernel-release-tracking-bug16:37
arawhich one is the correct one?16:37
skaet_sconklin, bjf ^^ ?16:37
bjfara, kernel-release-tracking-bug, i'll update the doc16:37
arabjf, thanks :)16:37
* skaet_ looks around for any other questions?16:38
skaet_Thanks sconklin, bjf, marjo, ara, pitti, vanhoof, martins.16:38
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:38.16:38
vanhoofsee ya skaet_16:39
arathanks skaet_!16:39
marjoskaet: thx16:39
skaet_thanks again,  will put out minutes for this meeting, and get an agenda present out for the next one.16:40
skaet_minutes will be tomorrow though.16:40
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=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
* sbeattie waves18:11
jdstrandalrighty, let's get started18:13
MootBotMeeting started at 12:13. The chair is jdstrand.18:13
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:13
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:18:13
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:13
jdstrand[TOPIC] Review of any previous action items18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of any previous action items18:13
jdstrandthere aren't any ACTION items from last week, but I did want to follow up with sbeattie regarding openjdk18:13
jdstrandsbeattie: are you getting the help needed from doko for the update?18:14
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
sbeattiejdstrand: we're poking at it, yes; though as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm somewhat inclined to release the openjdk-6 packages I have, that built everywhere except ppc/karmic, and work with doko to resolve the build failure there and the 6b18 arm build failures.18:15
jdstrandsbeattie: that sounds reasonable18:16
sbeattiebut I can poke a little harder at doko's hack first.18:16
jdstrandsbeattie: how severe are the vulns? specifically, is it worth haing the supported arch' users wait on ppc?18:17
sbeattiejdstrand: one of the vulns is the magic large number DoS (similar issue that php5 experienced), there's at least one security manager bypass issue.18:18
* jdstrand nods18:18
keesfyi, chromium wants to put a floor on the minimum version of openjdk of 1.9.7, and expects to do that with the chromium 10 release.18:19
jdstrandI'm inclined to skip ppc this time18:19
sbeattieI'd really like to get fixes out to the supported arch users.18:19
jdstrandmicahg: ^18:19
sbeattiekees: that... will be a problem on arm.18:19
micahgjdstrand: actually, not an issue, lucid+ will have that with sbeattie's updates18:19
keessbeattie: I suspect arm will have lots of problems beyond just that :)18:19
jdstrandsbeattie: ack18:19
sbeattie(assuming I ever release something :-( )18:20
jdstrandmicahg: ah, good18:20
micahgsbeattie: I think we've got at least one more release before chromium 1018:20
jdstrandsbeattie: I appreciate all the time and effort you've put into this18:20
* jdstrand hugs sbeattie 18:20
keesanyway, it came up with a conversation I was having with chris evans18:21
jdstrandsbeattie: is there anything that can be added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures so that it would be easier next time? eg, so that we don't lose knowledge, etc18:21
jdstrandkees: is chris evans the google chromium security guy?18:21
* jdstrand can't remember off-hand18:21
sbeattiejdstrand: yes, I can document how to put together the orig tarball, though that's not been the source of the issue with this update.18:22
jdstrandsbeattie: perhaps added to QRT/notest_testing if that makes more sense18:22
jdstrandsbeattie: ok. I think that would be a good idea18:23
jdstrandsbeattie: whenever you get a chance18:23
keesjdstrand: no, that's... someone else. who's name I'm blanking on. this is http://scarybeastsecurity.blogspot.com/18:23
sbeattiejdstrand: will do. (feel free to add it as an action item)18:23
jdstrandkees: ah right. duh18:23
jdstrand[ACTION] sbeattie to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures and/or QRT for openjdk tarball generation, build instructions, etc18:24
MootBotACTION received:  sbeattie to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures and/or QRT for openjdk tarball generation, build instructions, etc18:24
jdstrandsbeattie: thanks18:24
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report18:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly stand-up report18:24
jdstrandI'll go first18:24
jdstrandI'm in the happy place this week18:24
jdstrandI've got archive-admin work for alpha318:25
jdstrandsome more libvirt sponsoring18:25
jdstrandtbird and chromium testing on amd6418:25
jdstrandQRT updates for apparmor and libvirt18:25
jdstrandmore investigation of changes auditing18:25
jdstrandand investigate a reported ufw logging issue18:25
jdstrandbasically a bunch of random stuff :)18:25
jdstrandI'll pick up an update if I've got time, but I am not optimistic this week18:26
jdstrandthat's it from me18:26
jdstrandkees: you're up18:26
keesokay, spent a while working on upstreaming lkml things, adding more qrt tests for them, docs, etc.18:26
keesthis week I'm on triage.18:26
keesthat's really about it from me.18:27
jdstrandkees: is that s/spent/spend/?18:28
keesjdstrand: I was reporting last week, yes. spent18:28
keesjdstrand: this week I'd like to work on gcc testsuite updates but I always say that.18:29
jdstrandmdeslaur: you're next18:29
mdeslaurI'm currently publishing samba, clamav and fuse18:30
mdeslaurand then will work on ffmpeg, and some more from the list18:30
mdeslaurI have an embargoed issue or two to look at18:31
mdeslaurand will do some iso testing this week18:31
mdeslaurthat's about it!18:31
mdeslaursbeattie: tag, you're it18:31
sbeattieI'm on community this week; I was on triage last week; I fell a bit behind on bug triage (sorry kees!) so will try to help catch up on that this week.18:33
keesjdstrand: evan martin is the guy from UDS.18:33
jdstrandah yes18:33
jdstrandmicahg: you might try to get in contact with him ^18:33
keessbeattie: no worries :)18:33
jdstrandmicahg: I was unsuccessful18:33
micahgjdstrand: ACK18:34
jdstrandmicahg: well, I may have contacted him, I don't know. He never contacted me back :)18:34
sbeattieI have the whole openjdk issue (already discussed) and a logwatch update underway18:34
* jdstrand notes that sbeattie got apparmor 2.6 released and uploaded to natty last week18:35
sbeattieI also released the upstream apparmor 2.6.0 tarball, merged that into natty (with jdstrand's review and sponsorship), but I need to formally announce it.18:35
sbeattiejdstrand: heh18:35
jdstrandsbeattie: I didn't think you were going to mention it!18:36
sbeattieI also need to do a similar release for
sbeattieI think that's it for me.18:36
jdstrandsbeattie: fyi, the binaries haven't hit the archive cause an archive admin other than me needs to deNEW it (hung on the new python-libapparmor)18:37
* sbeattie should probably schedule an upstream apparmor meeting.18:37
sbeattiejdstrand: oh, okay. do we think they'll get approved by alpha 3?18:37
jdstrandsbeattie: would you mind poking an AA today so it can get deNEWed in time for alpha3?18:37
sbeattiejdstrand: sure, can do.18:38
jdstrandsbeattie: well, the should be, but I want to make sure they are18:38
jdstrandsbeattie: thanks!18:38
jdstrandI'm pretty excited about the python bindings18:38
micahgalpha3 freeze is in 4.5 hours, so I would suggest that happen sooner rather than later if you want it in18:38
jdstrandmicahg: well, it is already uploaded from 4 days ago, so the aa *should* do it18:38
jdstrandbut yeah18:39
jdstrandsooner than lator18:39
sbeattiejdstrand: me too! Especially given the last minute tweaking I had to do to get them to work at all.18:39
jdstrandif sbeattie doesn't have any more, micahg, you're up18:41
sbeattieyep, all done.18:41
micahgChromium/Firefox/Thunderbird updates18:41
micahgupgrading to natty18:41
micahgstill have a few setup items to do18:42
micahgI think that's it18:43
* micahg also needs to get up to speed on webkit18:43
jdstrandgreat, mdeslaur can brain-dump on you18:45
jdstrandthat sounded kinda wrong18:45
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions18:45
MootBotNew Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions18:45
jdstranddoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?18:45
* sbeattie eyes jjohansen nervously.18:46
jjohansenhehe, problem solved boring technical paper to follow18:47
sbeattiejjohansen: heh, cool. Technical papers are good.18:47
jdstrandjjohansen: mentioned ealier. do you think we should have an apparmor upstream meeting this week?18:47
jjohansenyeah, it might be a good idea18:47
jjohansenstart planning for 2.7/3.018:48
jdstrandcool, we can do that in #apparmor18:48
jdstrand(schedule it that is)18:48
jdstrandthanks kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg and jjohansen!18:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:49.18:49
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand!18:49
sbeattiejdstrand: thank you!18:50
jdstrandsure thing :)18:50
micahgthanks jdstrand18:50
kklimondageser: is the dmb meeting tonight, as mentioned on te agenda?19:04
geserkklimonda: yes (if we get quorum)19:05
* stgraber waves19:05
Quintasankklimonda: sup19:06
geserbdrung_, cody-somerville, persia, maco: DMB meeting19:07
* cody-somerville is here.19:08
geserif I didn't miscount, then we are quorate19:11
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch
macoLaney: around?19:11
SpamapSi can only stay for a little whil... at what point is the meeting postponed?19:11
geserany volunteers for chair?19:12
gesermaco: Iain mailed the DMB list that he can't today19:12
macooh ok19:12
macoim still not on that list19:12
bdrung_o/ i couldn't make it earlier19:12
MootBotMeeting started at 13:14. The chair is geser.19:14
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:14
* cody-somerville has a nose bleed, afk.19:14
geser[TOPIC] Review of previous action items19:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of previous action items19:14
geser* Emmet Hikory to organise the selection process for DMB renewal19:14
geserthe voting is done19:15
geserbut I don't know how far Emmet is with organizing the take-over of the DMB mailing list (will try asking him)19:15
geserand I don't remember seeing an official announcement of the new DMB (will ask him about it too or do it myself)19:16
geseranything else regarding the new DMB?19:16
geser[TOPIC] Administrative Matters19:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Administrative Matters19:17
geser* Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues19:17
geseras cody-somerville went afk we have to defer it for later19:18
geser[TOPIC] MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru19:18
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru19:18
geseris Sylvestre Ledru here?19:19
geserok, looks like we have to defer it to e-mail19:21
geser[TOPIC] core-dev application: Dave Walker19:22
MootBotNew Topic:  core-dev application: Dave Walker19:22
geser[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveWalker/DeveloperApplication19:22
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveWalker/DeveloperApplication19:22
gesera first question was already done during the last meeting19:23
DavieyI was interviewed in the last meeting19:23
geser[LINK] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:2819:24
MootBotLINK received:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:2819:24
bdrung_i have no questions19:24
=== bdrung_ is now known as bdrung
gesersomeone have any questions? or are all still reading?19:25
* cody-somerville is reading.19:25
* stgraber is reading the log19:26
cody-somervilleDaviey, What upload permissions do you already have?19:26
Davieycody-somerville, mythbuntu-dev19:27
cody-somervilleah, right.19:27
Davieylast timei polled19:27
MootBotLINK received:  http://erk.daviey.com/ubuntu-archive-access.txt19:27
maconeed to keep the cadbury eggs away?19:29
stgraberok, done reading the log19:29
macodone reading19:31
geserany questions or are we ready for voting?19:31
cody-somervilleDaviey, Becoming a Ubuntu Core Developer is more than just about upload rights - Its a leadership position. What are the most important values and ethics you demonstrate as a leader? Give me an example of these in practice.19:32
Davieycody-somerville, Good question.19:32
DavieyIt's about taking responsibility for your actions... thinking of other teams19:32
DavieyThat is, don't upload something before speaking with others it might cause woe to.19:33
DavieyIf you break something, ,make sure you notify people if needed... fix it19:33
geserdoes this also apply to MOTU?19:33
Davieyor give someone else enough information to fix it themselves19:33
Davieygeser, yes.. because Universe isn't just MOTU :)19:34
Davieybut equally, some packages have people who are essentially maintainers.. it would be rude and potentially damaging to not at least speak to them first19:34
DavieyI appreciate they aren't /really/ maintainers... but some people tend to look after some19:34
DavieyEqually, whilst it isn't in main... it still has rdepends, maybe19:35
geserwhere do you see differences (in leadership position) between MOTU and core-dev?19:35
Davieyso ABI bumping, or version increasing could be bad cookies19:35
Davieygeser, not a great deal TBH.19:35
Davieycore-dev clearly had more responsibilty19:36
DavieyIf i broke a package in main, it would, for example, it could hurt others developement that is shipped19:36
DavieyDamaging a daily for example19:36
DavieyUniverse doesn't have that same harm.19:36
Daviey(for the main flavours anyway)19:36
LaneyDo you monitor bugs for packages which you upload to watch out for such breakage?19:37
micahgthat's not true19:37
Laney(/me appears for 2 minutes)19:37
DavieyLaney, yes19:37
micahga bad upload in universe could break the xubuntu dailies19:37
macoor edubuntu19:37
Davieymicahg, <Daviey> (for the main flavours anyway)19:38
Davieymaco, ^^19:38
macoi assumed edubuntu was being intentionally not counted as "main flavours" but i do tend to think of xubuntu as being one of them19:38
cody-somervilleDaviey, Do you consider yourself a generalist?19:38
LaneyDaviey: Being a core developer is more than just raw packaging, it includes feature work too. Have you done much of that? (answer Cody's question first)19:39
Davieycody-somerville, My heart is looking out for the whole distro... but i tend to find there are areas where i /need/ to work on.19:39
DavieyLaney, yes :)19:39
LaneyCan you briefly outline your experience and plans for when/if you get access? :-)19:40
DavieyLaney, My daily work is mostly around blueprints work.19:40
DavieyI've been heavily tracking features of -server for the last year.19:40
DavieyAs in monitoring progress and such... been the server representive for some  of the weekly release meetings.19:41
DavieyLaney, I have a good understanding of the release cycle stages.19:41
LaneyGood, that's important to have a firm grasp of.19:42
* Laney has no more questions19:42
DavieyLaney, did that suitably answer your question?19:42
cody-somervilleDaviey, What motivates you to apply for core developer instead of just upload rights to the ubuntu-server package set?19:43
Davieycody-somerville, I don't want to purely work on the -server.. I want to be more of a general player.19:43
DavieyAs i mentioned in the previous meeting, i feel i'm using up my sponsorship time on stuff i HAVE to work on19:44
Davieynot /want/ to work on19:44
cody-somervilleDaviey, Whats stopping you from using the standard sponsorship process to work on things you want to work on?19:44
DavieyEqually, there is quite an overlap between what is not in the server seed and core.19:44
LaneyOK I do have to leave now, will vote by email if needed.19:45
Davieycody-somerville, Nothing especially.19:45
cody-somervilleDaviey, Are you familiar with the community processes around sponsorship?19:45
Davieycody-somerville, yes..19:45
Davieycody-somerville, Both UDD and tradional debdiff attached to LP bug19:45
macoI'm getting the impression Daviey is starting to feel like nixternal did when his sponsors all turned on him and said "JUST APPLY ALREADY"19:46
cody-somervillemaco, for server stuff, definitely seems like it.19:46
DavieyThere has been some of that...  When i do get stuff sponsored i don't tend to hear on quibbles with it19:47
DavieyThe last one was a superfluous white space at an end of a patch19:47
Davieycody-somerville, Well this is true.. but equally for the stuff not in server seed.19:48
cody-somervilleDaviey, So you think that if you were to be granted core-dev you'd be more inclined to work on packages you have a personal interest in but for whatever reason you've never touched before via a sponsor? Why is that? Is the normal sponsorship process (where you don't have a dedicated set of sponsors like you seem to have with server stuff) do heavy? Any feedback on how we might improve it so that folks like yourself will use19:49
cody-somervilleit instead of waiting for upload permissions?19:49
=== ogra is now known as Guest25882
DavieyI would like to do more sponsorship for others, than i've currently been able to do.19:50
=== Guest25882 is now known as ogra_
Davieycody-somerville, The process has been improved massively in the last couple of years.19:50
DavieyParticularly with UDD and patch pilot, has helped improve that19:51
DavieyThere was a time when some of my work would bake in places like revu or debdiffs for months19:51
Davieycody-somerville, It's not totally about personal interest TBH.19:51
Davieypersonal interest in specific packages that is19:52
DavieyI have had frustrating times when i've pushed a bzr branch, done the sponsorship process, waited...19:52
* cody-somerville is ready to vote.19:52
Davieyonly to find someone else uploaded it independently19:52
Davieywhich really makes you want to scream.19:53
ari-tczewDaviey: sorry for interrupt, are you going to spend some time on sponsorship for community in your free time? (non-Canonical hours)19:53
Davieyari-tczew, Canonical is largely irrelevant in this :)19:53
geser[VOTE] Should Dave Walker become core-dev?19:53
MootBotPlease vote on:  Should Dave Walker become core-dev?.19:53
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:53
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:53
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:53
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:53
MootBot+1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:53
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 419:53
Davieyari-tczew, I was doing packaging work yesterday19:53
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 419:53
Davieyhandling bugs19:53
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 419:54
geserDaviey: congrats19:54
QuintasanDaviey: \o/19:54
* Quintasan hands Daviey cookies19:55
* Daviey just shouted an obscenity, and apologies19:55
geseryou even didn't need the two +1 from the previous DMB members19:55
* Daviey is really happy chappy.19:55
* bdrung is getting hungy and want's cookies too.19:55
bdrungDaviey: congrats19:55
Davieybdrung, grab me at UDS for a cookie.19:55
DavieyThanks all o/19:55
* cody-somerville has to go to another meeting in 5.19:55
SpamapSi can only stay for a little whil... at what point is the meeting postponed?eetg my met connection went out...i19:55
geser[TOPIC] PPU application: Serge Hallyn19:56
MootBotNew Topic:  PPU application: Serge Hallyn19:56
geser[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn/PerPackageDeveloperApplication19:56
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn/PerPackageDeveloperApplication19:56
SpamapSooops pls disregard19:56
SpamapSsorry if my nar was called... connectivity has been spotty20:00
geserSpamapS: you'll be next one20:01
geserany questions for hallyn?20:02
macohi hallyn20:02
hallynmaco: hey20:03
macosome of the endorsements on your wiki page include folks saying you should start working on more packages so you can have wider contributions aside from the ones you're currently asking for PPU on. any plans in that direction?20:03
hallynyup.  I've been pretty swamped with bugs in older releases in qemu, etc - but I do like to look at bugs in new packages20:04
bdrunghallyn: you dislike having ubuntu-specific patches and don't caring in forwarding them. have you done some work to reduce the delta to debian? looking for example at libvirt 0.8.8-1ubuntu1 shows a huge delta20:05
hallynbdrung: what do you mean, don't care to forward them?  I definately do want to fwd them to debian/upstream20:06
Daviey(/me throws in that i suggested hallyn do a rather complex merge of libvirt and multipath-tools, and he did a really good job... listened to comments, and acted on them)20:06
hallynbdrung: until this latest merge, libvirt had diverged from the debian package, but now that we've resynced (as of last week) I intend to push as much as possible back up20:07
macohallyn: he meant carrying them forward to th enext ubuntu version of the package20:07
bdrunghallyn: i just rephrased "without the requisite followup"20:07
maco(or at leas,t i think so)20:07
hallynbdrung: ah.  so yes.  we still haven't been able to resync with deiban for qemu, but for libvirt that's the plan20:08
bdrunghallyn: is resyncing qemu-kvm on the todo list?20:09
hallynit's on the...  someday? list.   it would at this point involve qemu-linaro as well20:10
hallynbdrung: the package splitup is very different between the two20:10
hallynbut, I absolutely do not like having a completely different base from debian.20:10
hallynI'm hoping in next cycle to have a discusison with lool and slangasek about it, fwiw20:11
bdrunglooking at the qemu-kvm changelog, there seems to be no common anchor20:11
slangaseksyncing qemu with Debian requires solving the "arch: all packages from !i386" issue, fwiw20:12
bdrunghallyn: do you have any idea how to avoid such huge deltas?20:12
hallynbdrung: sync with debian and forward patches back to them?  :)  other than that, no.20:13
bdrunghallyn: there's a way that goes beyond that: joining the debian team for the package and apply the changes there20:14
hallynI wouldn't want to look like I'm shoving patches down their throats, but joining the team is appealing20:15
SpamapShey guys sorry to interrupt your questioning of sergr... i hqve mjor jet lag and avery bursty connection....20:15
geseranymore questions?20:16
stgrabernot from me20:16
SpamapSso i will have to reschedule for next meeting20:16
bdrungwe can vote20:16
Daviey(hallyn has previously expressed interest in getting more involved with Debian)20:16
macoSpamapS: ok20:16
geser[VOTE] Grant Serge Hallyn PPU rights for vmbuilder, multipath-tools, qemu-kvm, qemu-linary, seabios, vgabios, kvm-pxe, libvirt-bin, lxc and libcap2?20:17
MootBotPlease vote on:  Grant Serge Hallyn PPU rights for vmbuilder, multipath-tools, qemu-kvm, qemu-linary, seabios, vgabios, kvm-pxe, libvirt-bin, lxc and libcap2?.20:17
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:17
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:17
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:17
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:17
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:17
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:17
hallynyay :)  thanks20:18
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 420:18
* cody-somerville is in another meeting.20:18
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 420:18
geserhallyn: congrats20:18
geserSpamapS: you would be next right now, you want to reschedule?20:19
hallyngeser: thanks :)20:19
geserok, we will reschedule SpamapS for the next meeting and move on20:21
geser[TOPIC] MOTU application: Krzysztof Klimonda20:21
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU application: Krzysztof Klimonda20:21
geser[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/MOTUApplication20:21
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/MOTUApplication20:21
bdrungkklimonda: do you want to join the sponsor team?20:28
bdrungmaking it more "humane"?20:29
kklimondabdrung: yes, although I prefer not to get involved with packages I'm unable to test myself. Still, if there are some sponsorships for packages I know of (or are simple enough) I see no problem helping with working on them.20:30
bdrungkklimonda: so sponsoring only in your comfort zone?20:31
geserkklimonda: +1 for packaging pyramid, I'm currently moving from turbogears to pyramid so would like to see pyramid in Debian and Ubuntu20:32
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
geserbdrung: don't do all sponsors it? sponsor only fixes you are comfortable with?20:33
bdrunggeser: python-pyramid is in NEW20:33
kklimondabdrung: I believe that working on packages you use yourself (or packages that are dependencies of those packages) gives better result.20:33
kklimondabdrung: I have no problem sponsoring anything - it's not a technical problem on my part, I just don't believe it works well20:33
macogeser: i hope so!20:34
bdrunggeser: probably, but looking at packages outside your comfort zone can give you a broader knowledge20:34
kklimondabdrung: I'd actually prefer unseeded packages to be split among teams, and packages that are not in any packageset to be synced with debian.20:34
geserkklimonda: re gtkmm lp group: who are "we"?20:34
kklimonda(minus some edge cases like FTBFSs)20:35
kklimondageser: it's actually an entire ubuntu-desktop team, me, asomething and the Gtkmm upstream author who we can talk with in case of problems.20:35
kklimondageser: I really don't have a head to write better description :)20:36
geserwas creating the gtkmm group the right step to ease maintainance?20:37
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
kklimondageser: I believe so - it's safer to give commit rights to few packages from the gtkmm "packageset" without adding people to the ubuntu-desktop team - that would give them access to GNOME 3 PPA and all their branches.20:39
gesermakes sense20:40
geserany other questions or can we vote?20:40
geser[VOTE] Should Krzysztof Klimonda become a MOTU?20:42
MootBotPlease vote on:  Should Krzysztof Klimonda become a MOTU?.20:42
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:42
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:42
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:42
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:42
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:43
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:44
gesercody-somerville: still in another meeting?20:44
cody-somerville+0 - yup.20:45
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 420:45
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 420:45
Quintasankklimonda: highfive20:45
geserkklimonda: congrats20:45
bdrungcongrats kklimonda20:45
kklimondathanks all :)20:45
geserthe next two topics are connected20:46
geser[TOPIC] Create uTouch package set and grant Chase Douglas upload rights to it20:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Create uTouch package set and grant Chase Douglas upload rights to it20:46
geser[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication20:46
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication20:46
geser[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChaseDouglas/DeveloperApplication-uTouch20:47
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChaseDouglas/DeveloperApplication-uTouch20:47
ScottKkklimonda: Congratulations.20:47
kklimondaScottK: thank you :)20:47
macokklimonda: now we can all stop going "wait youre not a motu yet?!"20:47
gesercnd: here?20:47
cndgeser, yep20:47
ari-tczewPolish developer grow up :D20:47
cndI have two agenda items20:48
cndthis first is to allow some members of our utouch team to upload more efficiently to our packages20:48
gesercnd: how many new developers are expected for the uTouch package set in near future?20:48
cndI would guess two or three20:48
cndincluding myself20:49
oubiwanngeser, cnd: yup20:49
oubiwann(I manage that team)20:49
cndIf approved, I'll be asking Stephen Webb, another member of our team, to apply for sure20:50
cndthere are a few others who I could see going for approval if they were interested20:51
bdrungcnd: are there plan for getting the utouch packages into debian?20:54
cndbdrung, they are currently dependent on the X stack that we have in ubuntu20:54
cndI'm leading development on XInput 2.1 upstream in X.org20:54
cndand once that is in X.org and trickles down to debian20:54
cndthen we can look into going through debian first20:55
cndhowever, we do extremely rapid development as well20:55
cndright now, for example, I don't believe we could go to debian even if there weren't dependency issues20:55
cndbecause of the deadlines upon our team :)20:56
cndhopefully in the future these will lessen20:56
geserany questions?20:58
geser[VOTE] Create the uTouch package set as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication?21:00
MootBotPlease vote on:  Create the uTouch package set as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication?.21:00
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:00
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:00
bdrungcnd: you plan to work more on package uploads for universe packages. do you already have some packages you want to work on?21:00
macogeser: too fast :P21:00
cndbdrung, there are some community multitouch games21:00
cndI hope to help shepherd them in21:01
cndbut otherwise, I haven't had a chance to even take a look at universe sponsorship21:01
cndthis kind of gets into the second item on the agenda though, which is my own personal application21:01
cndI'd be happy to talk about it here too, just wanted to make that note21:01
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:04
stgraber+1 [Create a package set for utouch packages]21:04
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:04
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:06
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:06
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 421:07
geserany questions for cnd's application?21:08
cndI want to make a note21:08
cndI'm trying to work towards being a core dev21:08
cndI've been pushed by others to do so :)21:08
cndso my application technically is just for the utouch stack21:08
cndbut after I filed it, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask for motu on top too21:08
cndif you'd prefer, I can prepare a separate applciation for that though21:09
cndbut some of the endorsements on the utouch application, such as bryce's, show that I am ready for at least motu21:09
bdrungfor motu/core-dev you may need to broaden your work21:09
cndbdrung, yeah, I understand21:10
cndwhich is why I didn't think I'd apply directly for them at this time21:10
cndbut I'd been urged by others to do so21:10
cndI have prepared multiple uploads to ubuntu main21:10
cndmany more than universe, unfortunately21:11
cndand technically, I've touched quite a bit up and down the ubuntu stack :)21:11
bdrungoutside the utouch and related packages?21:11
cndI've prepared an upload for qt for multitouch, I've done linux kernel packaging as a previous job at canonical21:12
cndI've prepared gnome-settings-daemon, pkg-create-dbgsym21:12
cndthe x server, input proto, x input modules21:12
cndI'm the maintainer of my own package in debian21:13
cndand I sync that if there are bug fixes21:13
cnd(that's my only real universe work :)21:13
cndthe only thing keeping me from doing more is my day job on utouch :)21:13
cndit's been quite more than a normal full time job lately :)21:14
cndwhich is also a problem for getting this packaging experience :)21:14
cndI have quite a bit, but it's rather vertical21:14
cndI only get a chance to branch out when there are bugs elsewhere that I fix, usually21:15
geserdo you have much time to branch out?21:15
cndno, tbh21:15
cndbut if it's required21:15
cndthen I'll make the time necessary21:15
geser"required" as in we would like to see you have a broad expierence with different packages21:17
cndI'm hoping that some of these new multitouch games will be able to give me some more experience21:17
cndyeah, it's hard to tell what that quantifies to :)21:17
geserstacks have often the tendency to use a similar packaging21:18
cndI currently have no idea21:18
cnddoes that mean 10 packages spread out?21:18
cndthere's a lot of this that's subjective, and I'd be happy with any guidance you can give21:18
cndI believe I have the competency level that is required21:20
cndI've been taught proper procedures by Didier Roche, who helped me understand the full ubuntu developer mechanisms21:21
cndintegrating with bzr and such21:21
cndand I've worked in some of the most complex packaging, such as the ubuntu kernel and xorg-server21:21
cndso I'm really just missing the experience, and that's a big question mark for me because I'm not sure what types and how much experience I need21:22
geserany more questions for cnd or can we vote on his uTouch package set upload rights?21:22
stgrabergeser: I'm fine to vote on his package set application21:23
bdrungme too21:23
geser[VOTE] Grant Chase Douglas upload rights to the uTouch package set?21:24
MootBotPlease vote on:  Grant Chase Douglas upload rights to the uTouch package set?.21:24
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:24
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:24
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:24
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:24
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:24
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:25
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 421:25
gesercnd: congrats21:25
stgrabercnd: the packages you've touched so far seem to mostly be well maintained packages with proper procedures and using modern packaging tools. It's sadly not the case for all packages.21:25
cndgeser, thansk!21:25
cndstgraber, yeah, I understand that21:25
geserany other business?21:26
stgrabercnd: merging from Debian / fixing bugs / ... is probably a good way to gain more experience with what's in universe21:26
geserany volunteers as chair for next meeting?21:26
cndstgraber, is there any way to quantify how much more I need?21:26
cndany guidance at all21:26
bdrungcnd: we have no numbers for that.21:26
cndbdrung, yeah, I don't need explicit numbers21:27
cndbut when will I know whether to come back to ask for perms?21:27
bdrungcnd: you may look at what the other who became MOTU did21:27
stgrabercnd: I think working on some merges (early 11.10 cycle) and getting some testimonials from other MOTUs would help a MOTU application a lot21:28
cndthanks everyone!21:28
stgraberthanks and enjoy your PPU upload rights !21:28
kklimondageser: btw, pyramid is already in Debian - it's just waiting to get accepted by ftp-masters21:28
bdrungcnd: you could ask your sponsors if you are ready.21:28
bdrungkklimonda: i said that a while ago21:29
cndbdrung, heh. most of them say I'm ready21:29
cndthat's the challenging part21:29
kklimondabdrung: ah, sorry - I haven't noticed your response, just remembered that geser was talking about it.21:29
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:30.21:30
bdrung^ 15:30?21:31
bdrungthat's not UTC21:31
bdrungcnd: when you do some universe work (e.g. merge), you could ask these sponsors.21:32
cndbdrung, hmm?21:32
cndI can get more sponsors, but the sponsors I have feel I'm ready21:33
stgraberbdrung: that's CST21:33
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== soren_ is now known as soren
=== Daviey_ is now known as Daviey
=== pleia2_ is now known as pleia2
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler

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