brouschgeez, the crazy stuff people do to get django to run http://www.defuze.org/archives/262-hosting-a-django-application-on-a-cherrypy-server.html00:28
snap-lGood evening02:01
rick_h_good to know02:02
snap-lI think this is logging, but not sure.02:02
snap-lYep, tape is rolling. :)02:03
snap-lhttp://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/06/%23ubuntu-us-mi.html#t01:00 <- Logs for the meeting02:03
snap-lgreg-g: Are you free?02:03
brouschfigures. i was just about to get some actual stuff done ;)02:03
rick_h_that says monday though02:03
snap-lbrousch: We run this channel like a business02:03
rick_h_oh, damn time conversion02:03
snap-lrick_h_: Welcome to UTC02:04
snap-lbrousch: As soon as someone gets into the groove, it's meeting time.02:04
brouschut oh, feerless leader is absent?02:06
snap-lNot sure02:06
brouschsnap-l: take command02:07
brouschcarpe gregum02:07
snap-lOK, since I'm the only person with a name that rhymes with Greg, I think we'll get started.02:07
snap-lI'm sure he'll have an "oh crap" moment shortly.02:08
snap-lAgenda item #1: We're up for reapproval02:08
snap-lI know greg-g sent out some notices to the mailing list about the re-approval02:09
snap-lHe had a section in there on how to help out02:09
snap-lWe need to have the reports of the various events, so that the loco council knows that we're an active and vibrant team02:10
snap-lWhich, we are, but we need to show it.02:11
snap-lSo, if you have some spare cycles, please help fill these out02:11
brouschlink to call for help https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mi/2011-May/001412.html02:11
snap-lThanks, brousch02:11
snap-lWe need to have our application in before the release of Oneiric02:12
snap-lWe'll likely need to meet about this next meeting.02:12
brouschhow far back are we going?02:13
snap-lTeam was last approved in 2007, iirc.02:13
brouschi don't think west existed before 200902:13
snap-lSo I'd assume everything that's happened between now and then02:13
snap-lbrousch: If you'd take charge of putting the formation of the west side, and any events, that would be great.02:13
snap-lAny questions about the re-approval?02:14
snap-lOK, moving on, then02:15
snap-lMUG Meeting on June 14th02:15
snap-lSpoke with Jim McQuillan about this. He'd like to get something up on the MUG site tomorrow at the latest.02:15
snap-lso, what events do we have planned?02:15
snap-lrick_h_: I believe you're on the hook for PPAs, correct?02:16
brouschI hope someone else is actually here right now, because I haven't a clue02:16
rick_h_snap-l: yep, I'll have a talk on that ready02:16
snap-lrick_h_: Awesome.02:16
brouschppas, good idea02:16
snap-lDid anyone else have something to talk about for the MUG meeting?02:17
rick_h_other than that, calling out a bunch of bumms :P02:17
snap-lrick_h_: Yeah02:17
brouschwish i could make it for video editing02:17
snap-lBlazeix, widox, waldo323_ ?02:17
snap-lI proposed talking about Natty if we needed some talks02:17
snap-lmostly Unity, though02:18
snap-lSpeak now, or get drafted. ;)02:18
brouschaudio editing, but i think you did last mug meeting02:18
snap-lbrousch: A few meetings ago02:18
brouscha tour of the various spin-offs would be good: kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu studio02:19
snap-lOK, putting greg-g down for explaining why he's the model of a modern major general.02:20
snap-lHe'll be singing the entire song, verbatim. ;)02:20
snap-lReference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSGWoXDFM6402:21
snap-lOK, a better question would be who all os going to be at the MUG meeting on June 14th?02:22
brouschIt feels lonely today02:24
snap-lMaybe tonight isn't the best night for this?02:25
brouschwhat's left?02:28
snap-lLast thing on the agenda is decommissioning the Google Calendar.02:30
snap-lAnd I know Wolfger had a dog in this02:30
brouschrename it the east michigan open source events calendar02:30
snap-lUNfortunately, he's in Germany right now02:30
snap-lThat would make sense02:31
snap-land then use the Ubuntu loco calendar for just loco events.02:31
brouschwhere's the loco calendar we should subscribe to?02:31
snap-lone sec.02:31
brouschhttp://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical ?02:32
snap-lYep, that's the one02:32
snap-lFirst off, if anyone has any issues with that calendar, please let us know02:33
brouschok, i subscribed02:33
brouschi have no idea if anyone else outside of detroiland is actually subscribed to that calendar02:34
snap-lCheck with greg-g to see if you have access to create events on that calendar02:35
brouschi can make loco events02:35
snap-lor rather, to get access if you don't have access to create...02:35
snap-lAnything else?02:36
snap-lI'm going to leave the meeting open, just in case someone else shows up02:37
brouschwe need to vote on the punishment for missing the meeting02:37
snap-lOK, calling the meeting adjourned.03:06
snap-lThanks everyone for coming out that did come out03:06
snap-lI'm pretty sure we'll be talking about some of these things tomorrow.03:07
greg-gmy apologies all, I was in a canoe, and it tipped, slowing our return home :/03:26
snap-lOuch, sorry to hear that03:28
snap-lYou OK?03:28
snap-lI mean, other than the obvious that you're able to be on IRC> :)03:29
greg-gyeah, all good.03:29
greg-gI hate swimming through lake weeds though, I freak out a bit03:29
greg-glemme read the scrollback in a minute03:29
snap-lgreg-g: Feeling things between your legs in murky water is always a bit freaky03:30
snap-leven if a minnow is just nibbling at your toes, it feels like you're being eaten alive.03:30
greg-gweeds are the worst, feels like you are being grabbed onto/pulled down03:37
* greg-g shudders03:37
greg-gso yeah, I'll be at MUG03:39
snap-lgreg-g: Cool.03:39
greg-gwhat could i talk about.... any requests?03:39
greg-gother than signing a song03:39
snap-lOh, you're still on the hook for that03:40
snap-ldon't think just because you tipped a canoe means you're scott-free.03:40
snap-lWhat would you be willing to talk about?03:41
snap-lFigured we could talk a little about what the loco teams do03:42
greg-ghmmm, yeah03:42
greg-gI could do a little "Who we are/what we do/why we do it"03:43
snap-lHow we fit in the grand scheme of loco-dom?03:43
greg-gyep yep03:44
snap-lThat would be awesome. :)03:44
greg-gcool, I'll work on that :)03:45
snap-lSo that's three things03:45
snap-lI'm wondering if we can get some other folks to participate.03:46
greg-gI hope so :/03:47
snap-lYeah, no kidding. :)03:47
snap-lWell, we can still ask around tomorrow morning03:48
greg-gI hoped Amy's message to the list would have spurred some more response03:48
greg-gyeah, def03:48
snap-land if something comes up and someone feels the need to help out, we can always fit them in03:48
greg-gpoke _stink_ smoser waldo323_ to talk at MUG :)03:48
snap-lI was wondering if we could get JOhn Gruber to talk about Lernid, but I'm not sure he's a loco member.03:49
snap-lJohn S. Gruber03:49
greg-ghe's on the mailing list, but not LP03:49
greg-gcounts for me :)03:49
snap-lWant to ask him if he'd be interested?03:49
snap-lI see LErnid as being one of those loco-ish things.03:50
greg-goh, definitely, and yeah, I can03:56
snap-lAwesome. Thank you.03:56
greg-gI'm back to using taskwarrior, so I should remember to do it tomorrow :)03:56
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
_stink_i love to talk at MUG... but Tuesday are simply a no-go for me.03:57
snap-l_stink_: That's OK, just cancel your previous engagement03:57
snap-lwe'll understand03:57
_stink_shove the kid back up there03:57
greg-gno hard feelings here if you have to cancel on others03:57
snap-lThey might not, but they're not your real friends.03:57
greg-galright, time for bed04:04
greg-glong day tomorrow04:04
greg-gg'night all!04:04
greg-gand thanks much, snap-l, for taking the reigns04:05
snap-lnp, glad I cold help out.04:05
greg-greins, I guess04:05
snap-lNah, reign is fine. ;)04:05
snap-lking for an hour04:05
snap-lGood night!04:11
greg-gsnap-l: you might appreciate this. I cooked up this weekly status report thingy: http://grossmeier.net/taskreports/daily.html04:11
rick_h_morning party people12:14
rick_h_so can someone do me a favor and pull the internt plug for the day?12:15
rick_h_at least until the apple beer goggles fade off12:15
greg-goh, today is WWDC?12:23
rick_h_and E3 starting12:23
greg-gyep, closing gwibber soon then, I guess12:23
rick_h_my poor google reader is shaking in a corner12:23
rick_h_yea, it's totally unprepared for the flood of "magic" coming its way12:24
rick_h_man, starting off the day blown away http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/01/rest-api-authentication-schemes12:32
rick_h_one of those "duh! that's brilliant, and I'd never thought of that"12:33
rick_h_or maybe I'm just easily impressed on a monday morning12:33
rick_h_snap-l: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2011/06/the-good-the-bad-the-ugly-of-rest-apis.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oreilly%2Fnews+%28O%27Reilly+News+and+Commentary%2912:33
rick_h_api fun for a monday12:33
snap-lhttp://adamjury.com/2011/ignite-slides-from-pepcon/ <- A short run-down of a presentation given to the Print and ePublishing 2011 conference.13:33
snap-lIf even a handful of  publishers get this right, I think it could be remarkable.13:33
snap-lhandful that don't already get it, rather.13:35
greg-gthat was a good preso, thanks, snap-l13:39
brouschthere's the slackjaw greg-g13:48
greg-gbrousch: you missed my excuse!13:52
greg-gI was canoeing with Carrie and we, well, uh, tipped, and that kind of slowed down our return back home.13:53
brouschtipped? is that what we're calling it now?13:54
brouschat least it was for fun reasons13:55
greg-gyeah, even though I *hate* swimming through lake weeds/lillies. Those things scare the crap out of me.13:56
brouschi find them unpleasant, but not scary13:56
rick_h_my wife hates lakes13:56
rick_h_just for that, "it's slimy OMG!!!!"13:56
rick_h_ummm, we're not exactly riddled with beaches around here that aren't lakes dear13:56
brouschi'll take a lake over the ocean13:57
rick_h_oh forget that, love me some ocean13:57
brouschsalty, shark-infested, way too big13:58
rick_h_best thing of my cancun trip was getting a snorkel set during a trip13:58
rick_h_used that stuff all week just swimming off the resort beach13:58
snap-lYeah, the lakes you just have perceived dangers (slimy weeds)13:59
rick_h_though did catch myself out a bit farther than I thought I should be a couple of times13:59
greg-gbrousch: yeah, I'm abnormally afraid of it when I swim through it. Freaks the hell out of me.13:59
snap-lthe ocean has things like jellyfish13:59
rick_h_oh mean, I wonder if I still have that picture13:59
rick_h_I got stung by a little jelly13:59
brouschi am not comfortable around any wild animal that is large enough to kill me13:59
greg-gbrousch: I blame it on the fact that I drowned as a kid (in our pool in Texas, when I was around 5, fell with my tricycle into the pool. Heart stopped beating/breathed in water. Luckily mom is a nurse and dad worked in an ER)14:00
rick_h_greg-g: ouch man14:00
snap-lgreg-g: That'll do it14:00
brouschgreg-g: but that's a pool!14:00
snap-lbrousch: That's unadulterated fear14:00
snap-lno child is ready for that.14:00
greg-gyeah, and I'm a-ok with pools now, because I can see everything/everyone/the bottom. But lakes kinda freak me out14:00
brouschscarred for life14:00
snap-lI remember diving into a wave pool without any life preserver14:01
rick_h_that'd suck, I love the water14:01
brouschi was always afraid of giant snapper turtles in our lake14:01
snap-lor tube.14:01
rick_h_I can't imagine being afraid of it14:01
greg-gI hope not to pass the fear on to my kids14:01
brouschgreg-g: are you trying to tell us something?14:01
rick_h_greg-g: yea, we've been taking our little guy to the lake for swim lessons. Awesome to see an 18mo just fearless14:01
snap-lthe alternating goung under water / getting a gulp of air before getting duked again was not pleasent.14:01
greg-gsnap-l: ugh, that sucks. you feel so powerless14:01
greg-gbrousch: well...14:02
rick_h_greg-g: so the dunking last night wasn't fun eh?14:02
rick_h_was it canoe/kayak?14:02
snap-lgreg-g: Yeah, though luckily after a while I could touch bottom14:02
snap-land eventualy I made it to shallower water14:03
greg-gbrb, one sec14:03
snap-lhad a splitting headache, though, from all of the adrenaline14:03
brouschmy son dislikes lake michigan because the waves are so loud14:03
brouschoh man, i just realized we get to go swimming this year without a diaper or swimmy diaper14:03
jjesselooking forward to that14:04
rick_h_that's the biggest thing, right now I need a sherpa to pack up and go to the beach14:04
snap-ljjesse: You still swim with a diaper? :)14:04
jjessefor our little guy14:04
jjessewe got him a suit w/ floaties built into it for vacation14:04
greg-gback to your question, brousch, yes, we're expecting :)14:09
greg-grick_h_: canoe14:09
greg-gthankya :)14:09
rick_h_what did I miss here?14:10
brouschyou missed his subtle hint14:10
rick_h_well that reads like joking14:10
rick_h_for realz greg-g ?14:10
greg-gyep, we're about 13 weeks in14:10
rick_h_DUDE! congrats!14:10
greg-gthanks! :)14:11
rick_h_man, everyone it these days it seems14:11
rick_h_you kids :P14:11
greg-gwe've been slowly telling people14:11
jjessecongrats greg-g14:11
rick_h_greg-g: definitely understand. That waiting to make sure all was cool was killer14:11
rick_h_let me know when you guys want to practice, I'll bring the boy over :P14:12
snap-lgreg-g: That's awesome! Congratulations!14:13
widoxgreg-g: nice, congrats!14:14
snap-lApparently since the Apache OOo announcement, people are donating much more to the Document Foundation14:15
greg-grick_h_: that, actually, would be fun14:16
greg-gthanks snap-l widox :)14:16
rick_h_Soon we'll have UH:CHC with BabyHackerSpace14:16
ColonelPanic001why are we congratulating greg-g?14:16
rick_h_we'll bring in all the kids and let them go14:16
ColonelPanic001I missed it in the backlog14:16
jjesseColonelPanic001 they are expecting14:17
greg-gColonelPanic001: there's going to be a little-greg running around (well, crawling) in December14:17
ColonelPanic001I'll hold my congrats until it's confirmed he's born with an awesome beard.14:17
jjesseprobablly not doing much in decembmer except eating, sleeping and pooping14:17
ColonelPanic001I kid. Congrats, greg.14:17
ColonelPanic001(lol "kid")14:17
greg-gjjesse: good point14:18
greg-gColonelPanic001: thanks buddy14:18
brouschlots and lots of pooping14:20
jjessecan you imagine if the kid comes w/ greg-g beard?14:20
jjessethat would be awesome14:21
ColonelPanic001I'm hoping14:21
brouschi had to resent my droid. now it's trying to download 50 programs simultaneously14:25
brouschthis won't end well14:25
greg-gso, the old wives tales, and Carrie's mom, who knew Carrie was pregnant before we told her we were trying (and before we knew), says it is a girl14:26
rick_h_greg-g: so I had 3 brothers, dad had 3 sisters14:27
rick_h_so I thought I was doomed, the rule was I was allowed to call it a "he" until we knew otherwise14:27
rick_h_everyone make girl jokes through the first several months14:27
rick_h_ended up a boy :)14:27
rick_h_so I say, think happy thoughts, talk to the little guy and let him know he's a he...and hope for the best14:27
rick_h_don't know about you, but I don't know how to do girls, my mom wore a dress twice in her life14:28
rick_h_so I was deathly afraid14:28
greg-gjjesse: oh, man, I missed your congrats, and didn't say thank you. Thanks buddy!14:28
brouschwe're gonna need a playpen at the next ubuntu michigan meeting14:28
greg-grick_h_: hah. I can be ok with them. WHen I was a camp counselor I most lead the girl groups14:28
smosergreg-g, i can talk about something... tomorrow. planning on attending. but dont want to sign up for more than 10-15 minutes.14:29
rick_h_smoser: that'd rock. I think we're just doing loco hosted lightning talks kind of thing14:30
rick_h_so that'd be perfect, just eat some time14:30
smoserwhats the rest of the meeting ?14:30
smoseris there other stuff ?14:30
rick_h_no, Ubuntu Loco take over14:31
rick_h_we're sponsoring the meeting and just presenting from the group, so some natty stuff, I'll cover some PPA stuff14:31
rick_h_doesn't have to be ubuntu, just the general idea was for the loco to raise the $$ to fund and take over a meeting14:32
smoseryes, i knew that.14:32
smoseri can talk a bit on what Ubuntu Server is doing this cycle.14:33
greg-gsmoser: yeah, 10-15 is perfect14:34
greg-gthat topic would be great, smoser, thanks14:34
snap-lTHank you, smoser14:38
snap-lBTW: it's the 14th, not tomorrow. :)14:38
smoseri would have been there otmorrow14:39
snap-lsmoser: YOu would have, and we would have missed your talk. ;)14:39
snap-lOTOH, someone else would have had a great talk on Ubuntu Server this cycle14:40
snap-lAnd I'm sure that the automotive engineers of tomorrow meeting would have been that much better for it14:40
snap-l(or whatever they have that evening)14:40
snap-lNo quotes needed.14:40
greg-g(emailed the Lernid guy about presenting at MUG)14:41
rick_h_greg-g: awesome14:42
snap-lThanks, greg-g14:43
greg-gthank you, taskwarrior :)14:44
snap-lI'm going to send the MUG board a list of what'll be presented.14:45
snap-l(that which is already confirmed)14:45
greg-gsnap-l: I have PPA:rick, Server:Scott, Unity:You, LoCo:Me14:47
brouschno jcastro? but he's our rock star!14:49
rick_h_http://www.androidcentral.com/using-google-music-manager-ubuntu-made-easy ok that's kind of cool14:50
_stink_greg-g: congrats!!14:52
jcastrono I am doing washlug this month already!14:53
jcastroI get a bye!14:53
rick_h__stink_: we had our first case of me getting in trouble for bringing home the boy too dirty: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AvBuA3IBaPnebjWcdSHkuA?feat=directlink14:53
rick_h_evidently there are limits when she puts the boy in a shite shirt14:53
_stink_gah, the chance to sit in a huge tire trumps wardrobe14:54
_stink_rick_h_: so you guys are doing swim lessons?14:54
rick_h__stink_: yea, we did them last year and just signed up for this year14:55
_stink_ah, cool14:55
rick_h_there's a pub beach just up the street that does them as part of the community program stuff14:55
_stink_we did that for a 6 week deal - it was ok... the water was friggin' freezing14:55
_stink_ah nice14:56
rick_h_yea, we went on mem. day and it was chilly14:56
rick_h_but sometimes you don't need to go in the water for fun14:57
snap-ljcastro: No bye. no bye14:57
snap-lyou come, give presentation14:57
jcastrohow long does it have to be?15:01
jcastrodo I have to do unity?15:01
rick_h_snap-l:  is doing unity :P15:01
greg-g_stink_: thanks, buddy! :)15:01
snap-ljcastro: Yeah, I'll take care of Unity / Natty15:01
rick_h_jcastro: do some ubuntu one stuff, you've been chatting about that recently15:02
rick_h_show off something using the api?15:02
snap-ljcastro: I know you're probably burned out already.15:02
jcastroso what should I do?15:02
rick_h_photo app, etc15:02
jcastrooh, U1 would be good15:02
jcastroI can do that15:02
jcastrosign me up for that15:02
rick_h_yea, easy, demo, and can be impressive15:02
snap-lOK, awesome.15:02
rick_h_and we can try to get some loco renewal points for showing off relevent "talk points" for this cycle :)15:03
snap-lUbuntu One, Mark 2. ;)15:03
greg-gjcastro: doesn't have to be long, we're looking at 15ish minutes15:03
greg-grick_h_: heh :)15:03
rick_h_greg-g: we all know we're part marketing arm heh15:03
greg-g'tis true15:03
brouschsnap-l: the mud meeting info on the calendar does not have a location15:04
jcastroit's not marketing, it's enablement!15:04
jcastro"hello, my name is rick, and today I will be going over vim and window management with vim."15:05
snap-lbrousch: Yes, it does15:05
snap-lon the event itself, it does.15:05
brouschhm, must not transfer to the ical15:05
snap-lUnfortunately it's not in ical.15:05
rick_h_jcastro: come on, I'm doing PPA's and I don't even use them any more so :P15:05
snap-lfiling a bug15:06
brouschand no link to the event page15:06
jcastrohow's that arch working out?15:06
rick_h_jcastro: sticking with it so far15:06
jcastroit was the buzz of UDS15:06
rick_h_it's give/take. Enough good I'm going forward15:06
jcastroeverytime someone said somethign you didn't like in a session15:06
rick_h_has it's downside for sure15:06
jcastroyou went "that's it, I AM SWITCHING TO ARCH!"15:06
rick_h_hah, awesome15:07
rick_h_I just want to be woo'd by my distro :P15:07
rick_h_Ubuntu doesn't open the door for me any more, it's a stale relationship15:07
jcastrowhy not debian?15:07
jcastroyou feel more debianish to me15:07
greg-grick_h_: stale is also stable :)15:07
greg-gyeah, that's what I would have thought as well15:08
rick_h_because I need some newer packages I used to get from PPA's15:08
greg-grick == debian15:08
rick_h_and so it's a bit trickier to add15:08
rick_h_though debian was a full option if this arch thing blew up15:08
rick_h_I think that's the path, ubuntu->arch->debian->ubuntu15:08
rick_h_figure I'll be back in 3 releases15:08
_stink_i love that the failure map is already drawn15:09
brouschthe meeting ends at 9pm? is that when people go home or when they head out to the afterparty?15:09
jcastrorick_h_: you should flav-style15:09
jcastroLTS only baby15:09
jrwrenjcastro: i pulled a pint glass out of my cupboard last night and I realized that you've been married for a year last week. Happy Aniversary.15:09
jcastrojrwren: heh thanks15:09
rick_h_jcastro: I was doing that, ran lucid up until my upgrades borked15:09
snap-lCan I get some "Amens" on that link?15:10
rick_h_brousch: we go out to 'dinner' after the meeting15:10
rick_h_man, making me launch launchpad ugh15:10
rick_h_ok, "Amen"'d15:10
brouschso you go out to eat at 9pm?15:10
rick_h_brousch: yes15:10
jrwrensnap-l: may the force be with you15:11
snap-land also with you.15:11
greg-gjcastro: oh dang yeah, happy 1 year!15:12
snap-lgreg-g: I missed the taskwarrior report earlier. That's pretty cool.15:23
greg-gsnap-l: yeah, basically a script that outputs the stuff into both RST and plain text files, emails the plain texts, and build html pages and copies those to my webspace for me.15:29
greg-git is pretty specific/hardcoded for me, but it'd be cool to generalize it and share it with others15:30
snap-lThis looks awesome. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be keeping up with reality.16:47
snap-lreality = slashdotting. ;)16:47
greg-gsnap-l: yeah, I thought that was a neat idea16:56
snap-lHanging out on twit.tv for their announcements.17:01
snap-lE3, Apple, etc.17:01
snap-lShould be an interesting day.17:01
brouschi'm following a twitter feed that publishes darwin's beagle diary 176 years from when he wrote them17:02
greg-gbrousch: are they associated with http://twhistory.org/ ?17:08
brouschi don't think so17:16
snap-lI just bought an air filter from Amazon.17:23
snap-lfor my car17:23
_stink_that's not a book.17:24
snap-lbecause Meijer doesn't stock my filter.17:24
snap-lThat is because I am living in the future.17:24
jrwrenwhat kind of car?17:24
snap-lDodge Caliber17:24
snap-lAnd O'Reilly Auto Parts doesn't carry anything that doesn't start with Honda or Toyota17:27
snap-lOreilly bought Murrays17:33
snap-lThat's just it... one click, and I don't have to care17:40
jrwrenbut you have to wait.17:41
jrwreni'm a same day auto maintenance kidn of guy.17:41
rick_h_is the filter on fire?17:41
jrwreni go buy air filter, oil filter, oil and drive home and change it all.17:41
* krondor snap-l reminds me I need a new air filter17:42
krondorplaces never have mine either :|17:42
jrwrenkrondor: what do you drive?17:43
snap-lI'm watching this Call of Duty XBox thing17:43
snap-land frankly, I don't undertstand the allure of modern warfare games17:43
snap-ljrwren: I am too, but I'm not a fan of driving all over town just to get an air filter.17:45
krondorjrwren:  jag x-type17:45
snap-lAnd I'm not a fan of paying $15 for someone to drop it into my car at the oil change place.17:45
jrwrenisn't jag x-type just a fancy taurus?17:45
krondorjrwren: no it's a ford modeo17:45
krondormondeo or whatever17:45
jrwreni'm not a fan of paying the oil change place17:46
rick_h_I'm not a fan of dealing with disposal, so I pay hte oil change guy17:46
snap-lrick_h_: ++17:46
jrwrenWashtenaw County FTW, I guess.17:47
jrwrenjust go to AA recycle center and drop it off17:47
_stink_air filters are well worth doing yourself17:47
_stink_oil... not so sure.17:47
jrwrenoil... I drop Mobil 1 in for about eh same price  you pay at a change place. Well worth it to me.17:48
rick_h_I do mobile 1 now, just pay throgh the nose for it17:48
jrwrenIt doesn't help that oil places always try to scam.17:48
rick_h_yea, always love the wipe blades and such upsel17:48
jrwrentheir upsell tactics disgust me.17:48
snap-lYeah, we noticed a bug on your windshield. For $80 we can replace your windshield for you.17:49
jrwrenoh, and one time a place trashed my mom's engine. Didn't put the drain plug in well enough... new engine for her. fail.17:49
rick_h_yea, I had that happen :/17:49
rick_h_thankfully they've got insurance17:49
krondorjrwren anyway the mondeo wasn't sold here only EU so i'm not sure if that was why it's not a common filter size17:50
snap-lkrondor: That would likely be part of it17:51
snap-lthat and I think the Jag X-Type was more common here because of the ludicrous Ford lease deals.17:51
krondoryeah I got a good deal on it 2 years used, drives great and i like the AWD17:52
snap-lWhat the fuck18:10
snap-lIs everything now going fullscreen?18:10
rick_h_only you'll be able to tile from time to time :P18:11
snap-lSeriously, we're going back to the DOS era because apparently the windowed environment is too ADD for people.18:11
snap-lMission Control is what they're calling Spaces now.18:11
snap-lOh hell no18:12
snap-lNo scroll bars.18:12
snap-lI believe 201x is the era where the designers won, and we all get screwed. ;)18:13
snap-lI swear, if the next thing they talk about are TSRs, I'll spit fire.18:13
rick_h_yea, and 202x is where the doctors get to treat all the finger trauma caused by 10 years of trying to 4 finger cha-cha on your laptop18:14
snap-lrick_h_: ++18:14
rick_h_"all you have to do, is find this completely undiscoverable set of methods to input"18:14
snap-lYeah, that's really annoying as hell18:14
snap-lI wonder if they're going to have a little card that you can use, like a "quick reference"18:15
rick_h_ooh, apps should have a "walkthrough"18:15
rick_h_it's so much better than trying to figure it out yourself18:15
rick_h_you can spend hours going through short video clips18:15
rick_h_on how to use things18:15
_stink_"the right way"18:16
snap-lI'm also not terribly a fan of the page-flip thing (though it's essentially alt-tab)18:17
snap-l(although I'm thinking that I'm a bit of a hypocrite, since keyboard gestures are not discoverable either)18:18
snap-lApparently Unity is forward thinking. ;)18:20
rick_h_by 3wk18:20
snap-ljrwren: Watching live.twit.tv18:28
snap-lThey're at least engaging.18:28
snap-lThey had a little bit of the feed until the person tho was feeding got yanked.18:29
jrwrentwit.tv is like morning talk show radio. they just talk and talk and talk about nothing.18:29
snap-lWell, they're broadcasters18:29
snap-lthough it's not that bad18:29
snap-lyou don't have to pay too much attention18:29
snap-lMan, it's getting a little warm, but I'm loving this breeze.18:35
rick_h_I was tempted to move outside earlier18:36
rick_h_that's the downside of the smaller laptop though, giving up a lot of real estate to work outside18:36
snap-lWondering if I should close up the house, or not18:38
rick_h_when out AC went that was the trick18:38
rick_h_open all the windows over night/first thing inthe morning18:38
rick_h_and then by 10am close up, shut the shades, etc18:39
brouschmy phone is no longer downloading updates. all i get is download unsuccessful for the last 2 weeks. cleared caches, formatted sd card, reinstalled CM 6 rom. no luck19:02
brouschno i can get 1/4 apps to download only if i do it over 3g, not wifi19:05
krondorbrousch:  which cache?  app caches or when you reinstalled rom did you wipe data and dalvik cache?19:06
snap-lbrousch: Lovely.19:06
brouschkrondor: wiped all caches, data and dalvik19:06
krondorbrousch: hmm, are you behind a proxy when on wifi?  proxy gives me all kinds of fun issues with android.  Doesn't explain the 3/4 on 3g that don't download though I guess..19:07
krondormaybe an excuse to goto CM719:08
brouschi am behind a proxy, but never had problems19:08
brouschbut you know what, work and home are both using comcast internet now19:08
brouschcould comcast be blocking this?19:08
krondorI would be really surprised if they were, I don't use comcast though ... are you using comcast dns?19:10
brouschhm, yeah19:11
brouschvery strange19:12
krondorI'd try using google's dns and check your logcat to see why it says the download fails19:13
krondorandroid has a circular syslog called logcat, you can just run logcat from a shell and get the output, there's apps to track it too or adb19:24
brouschnow if only i could install an app ;)19:25
brouschgonna try CM719:25
brouschkrondor: btw, how is the detroit android group going?19:28
brouschat least rom manager and clockwork mod recovery work for me now19:29
krondornot bad, last meeting had about 9 people.  The first two were just kind of unstructured with no topic.  looks like the next one will have a topic (setting up the android dev environment(s))19:34
snap-lMan, I'd like to upgrade to Natty, but I'm not sure what'll break in the process. :)19:34
rick_h_when/where is this krondor?19:35
snap-lI guess you don't know how deep the water is until you jump in19:35
krondorrick_h_:  It's been the 4th tuesday of each month, probably will stay there though there was some discussion of moving it to thursday.  It's at i3Detroit in Ferndale so far.19:38
brouschkrondor: i'm going to see what mobile monday michigan has to offer before starting the android gr group19:39
krondori3detroit -- http://bit.ly/kxrqhe19:39
krondorbrousch:  yeah I saw that link you sent me, had an interesting topic.  I need to make it out that way sometime too19:39
krondorstupid corporate proxy.  blogspot.com ban was bad enough and now tumblr.com.. yet exploit-db.com is totally fine19:46
brouschkrondor: it looks like CM7 is working19:48
krondornice and now you have CM7 too sounds like a win19:48
brouschstrange that 6 would just stop like that19:48
brouschwell, i tried cm7 a few months ago and it had some weirdness for me. the camera and flash were out of sync19:49
krondorwhat phone?19:49
krondorI love these password habit breakdowns off of hacks http://www.troyhunt.com/2011/06/brief-sony-password-analysis.html20:06
rick_h_yea, just frightening isn't it20:25
rick_h_99% no non-alphanum20:25
rick_h_so single best password rule "pick something that's not a-z09 buddy"20:25
jrwrenand longer than 10 characters.20:29
jrwrenlonger than 14 characters if windows is going to hash it20:29
jrwrenbecause... http://www.golubev.com/files/ighashgpu/readme.htm20:30
krondorjrwren:++ rainbowcrack has had a gpu option I'm not sure how that ighashgpu proggie is different/better.  I haven't looked at that in a bit, but the pre-built 14 character ntlm hash has been around for awhile now20:33
jrwrenighashgpu isn't even rainbow tables and they are cracking 8char [A-Za-z0-9`~!@#$%^&*()-_=+[]{}\|;',./<>?] paswords in hrs.20:35
krondorah ok20:35
jrwrenjust brute force.20:35
_stink_damn, including special chars20:37
jrwrenGPUs are FAST20:37
jrwrenand this is on 1 system with 1 gpu.20:37
jrwrenthey ahve numbers for 4 GPU20:38
jrwrenand imagine a small cluster each node with a couple GPU20:38
jrwrenor a larger cluster on EC2 with the GPU nodes.20:38
jrwrenyou could tear through a huge password file in very short time.20:38
_stink_so here's a question i suspect is stupid, and if i thought about it would be more obvious, but you guys are smart20:38
jrwrenyes, women are beautiful.20:39
jrwrenwrong question?  oops20:39
_stink_i need to think about that one more20:39
_stink_if hashed passwords aren't as safe as i might have thought, what are ways other than a security breach somewhere that hashed passwords would be exposed?20:39
_stink_that is, if i hear that there is a breack somewhere where i have an account, i need to change all reuses of that password everywhere else *anyway*20:40
_stink_and i don't really care whether they hashed it or not20:40
_stink_unless i'm overlooking some other way the hash would be exposed.20:40
jrwreni don't even know what you just said.20:40
jrwrensalted hashes are still pretty secure AFAIK20:41
_stink_why do i care whether hashed passwords can be reversed quickly?20:41
jrwrenoh, i guess you don't have to care.20:41
jrwrenthe harder part is still getting the password file20:41
_stink_right, ok.20:41
_stink_i'm with you.20:41
greg-goh, snap-l's not here, but damn, his dents, that sucks20:41
krondor_stink_:  if you're going on the premise that you will 'know' the place has been compromised and you will need to change that password everywhere else you re-use it.  You don't need to care.20:41
krondorbut you're assuming you'll know20:42
_stink_yeah, i can grant that20:42
_stink_ultimately the problem with reuse.20:42
jrwrenmy concern is more as a developer i need to know this crap when i write apps.20:43
jrwrenbecause md5(password) is almost always the wrong thing these days20:43
krondorfailed login lockouts need to happen in more places.  There are so many things that let you try whatever password over and over again sometimes with a slight delay.20:44
jrwrenand actually.. i guess salted passwords are just as vulnerable since its NOT a rainbow attack20:44
jrwrenexponential backoff delay has proven to work pretty well.20:44
jrwreni'm not aware of too many compromises that have occurred against such an implementation20:44
krondordefinitely it does, I suppose.  It just seems better to slam the door in someone's face then tell them try again in 30 seconds.  Probably more user issues then legitimately that are annoying though.20:45
krondorI think more of these hacks come from sql injection or 0day whatever then brute force though, but still not an excuse to not countermeasure it20:46
krondorwwdc looks like apple assuming android features (notifications bar, widgets (well that's a bit different), split keyboard).  oh well good ideas a good idea *copy/paste*20:48
brouschso what should i do instead of md5(password)?20:48
rick_h_bcrypt is one way20:50
rick_h_I do sha256 of a salted password20:50
rick_h_where each salt is unique per user20:50
rick_h_but things like login throttling, https for all auth, and account lock outs are important20:51
rick_h_but annoying at times20:51
snap-lOh, I am not a happy camper20:52
brouschthat's why i prefer a hotel20:53
snap-lBluetooth: Screwed20:53
snap-lATI drivers: screwed (won't install)20:53
snap-lmy /var/storage directory, which contained things like backups, and my entire, ripped CD collection in FLAC format: erased.20:53
brouschnatty loves you20:53
brouschthat's odd20:54
snap-lIt's bullshit.20:54
snap-lIt mounted it, and then figured since it was under /var, it should be completely obliterated20:54
greg-gfucking eh, man, that sucks20:55
snap-lAlso not present after upgrade: irssi, postgresql20:55
rick_h_postgresql gets moved because it does side by side support20:55
snap-lI'm not sure why we offer an upgrade, because frankly it doesn't fucking work.20:55
rick_h_so it doesn't "upgrade" it should side by side 8 and 920:55
snap-lrick_h_: No, it didn't even let me do psql20:55
rick_h_ah, not sure then20:56
rick_h_agree though, I never upgrade and my one time trying it with natty ended in fail20:56
snap-lWell, I didn't expect it to mount a drive, only to delete the contents of it20:57
jrwrenkrondor: you understand "exponential backoff" right?20:57
snap-lBut, that does expose a chink in my armor, which is I never backed that up because it was too big20:57
rick_h_yea, +1 for cloud because I've gotten sick of getting a bigger and bigger drive every year20:58
jrwrenbrousch: definitely use a salt.  and yeah... sha256(saltedpassword)20:58
krondorjrwren:  yeah, you're delaying login longer with each failure on some exponential growth curve right20:58
rick_h_I want to check out bcrypt sometime just because of that work load factor built in20:59
snap-lI love too that "development is completed on Natty", which means "we don't want to hear about your stupid problems".20:59
snap-lAnd I'm done.21:00
rick_h_done being angry? or done in another way?21:00
krondorcan I go home yet? This day is dragging21:00
rick_h_yea, you get to put a 'work' factor into the password gen21:01
jrwreninteresting call :)21:01
snap-lWell, I'm going to run the upgrades to see if something might have been fixed along the way21:01
snap-lbut if not, I'm dropping back to LTS.21:02
snap-lor maybe something else. I'm not sure21:02
snap-lam rather hurt right now21:02
* greg-g hugs snap-l 21:02
brouschso it mounted your drive and then deleted it?21:03
_stink_there's another topic for MUG!21:03
greg-gthere should be some way to get the data back, I mean, it didn't write over it, did it?21:03
_stink_but really, that totally sucks and i would be livid.21:03
greg-gyeah, ditto21:03
snap-lNo, but I'm not sure what condition the data will be in once recovered21:03
snap-land yes, it mounted it, and then deleted it21:03
greg-gI mean, some of those data recovery tools aren't too bad21:03
snap-lI'm going to copy off the hidden directory that was on there to another drive21:04
snap-land then see what I can do to get the data off of it21:04
snap-lNever thought making a hidden directory would save my ass21:04
krondorextundelete may work (assuming it was ext3 or 4)21:04
snap-lit's ext421:04
snap-lAnd that'll teach me to mount something as /var/storage. ;)21:05
rick_h_yea, I always mount as a subdir in /home/rharding21:05
greg-galright, ehading home time21:06
rick_h_even my sdcards and such I manually mount to /home/rharding/tmp21:06
rick_h_have fun greg-g, good day for a ride it looks like21:06
snap-lI'd love to know why fglrx isn't working on this machine21:06
brouschi mount stuff in /media or /mnt21:06
jrwren/var/storage was something special?21:09
snap-lit was, and not anymore.21:10
brouschit was his cloud21:11
brouschand a narwhal ate it21:12
brouschand he is left with nappy narwhal farts21:12
jrwrenI'm still not clear on how having a /var/SOMETHING mount screwed an upgrade.21:18
snap-ljrwren: It didn't screw up the upgrade, the upgrade deleted the contents of the directory21:21
jrwrenhow the hell did it do that?21:21
jrwrenthat sounds super fucked.21:21
snap-lI would love to know, personally.21:22
snap-lWhat a mess21:26
brouschsomeone buy snap-l a drink21:27
snap-lAnd shotwell decided to try and import every graphic on my hard drive21:37
snap-lNot sure why, it just decided to.21:38
snap-lI swear, this versionof Ubuntu is going to drive me to a Mac.21:38
snap-lAnd Banshee is haging21:44
brouschapple has ubuntuone now21:44
brouschut oh21:44
krondorwhy stream your music when you can push copies of it to all your devices, just make sure you buy that 64 gb iphoneX t house it.21:45
brouschi need to give ampache a try. it has android clients21:48
jrwrenapple has had mobile me for years.22:48
brouschbut no one uses it22:50
jrwrenonly mac heads.22:50
jrwrenwhich i suspect will be true of the new stuff too22:50
brouschi'm about 1/3 of the way moved back to linux from osx22:50
brouschhas snap-l returned yet?22:51
snap-lWho is the patron saint of lost causes?23:14
snap-lBecause I thnk I need an intercession23:15
brouschit is Nay23:19
brouschshe is an old nag23:20
snap-lAnd JoDee just burned three pork chops23:21
snap-lTechnology can go fuck itself.23:22
brouschnot good23:24
brouschgreg-g: is that what you said when your canoe flipped?23:25
greg-gthat was more "oh sh!t!!"23:25
greg-gand then "I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry"23:25
greg-g(yeah, it was my fautl)23:25
brouschand then, "ewewewewewewe"23:26

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