brouschare we meating yet?01:02
snap-lHey, everyone. We're goind to start the meeting.01:02
brouschokie dokie01:03
snap-lThere's the agenda01:03
snap-lFirst off, welcome everyone01:03
snap-lPretty much everything on the agenda relates to Penguicon. :)01:03
snap-lWe have a Precise Pangolin (12.04) release party scheduled at Penguicon on Friday at 7pm - 8pm01:04
snap-lIt'll be in the Thomas room, which Penguicon has graciously set up for us01:04
rick_hone hour?01:04
snap-lSo that'll be pretty awesome01:04
snap-lYeah, one hour01:04
snap-lThat's the time we had last year, and I figure it's when the crazy starts happening. :)01:05
snap-lYou'll need to have a day-pass for Penguicon if you're not already attending01:05
brouschsnap-l: i just added west mi release party to the agenda01:06
snap-lBut I'd highly recommend coming to Penguicon anyway, because a) it's a lot of fun, and b) we finally got rick_h to speak at it01:06
snap-lbrousch: Awesome. We can talk about that after Penguicon.01:06
greg-ghe did a packaging jam once01:06
snap-lgreg-g: Yes, and we know how special these events can be01:06
snap-lit's like the blooming of the corpse flower.01:07
brouschsounds wonderfully disgusting01:07
snap-lAnywho.... :)01:07
snap-lOne of the other events scheduled for Penguicon is a Panel discussion for what's new in 12.0401:08
snap-lWhich needs some lovely people to talk about what's new in 12.0401:08
snap-l(insert your name here)01:08
snap-lI'd like to have a few people who can commit to talking about it at Penguicon01:09
snap-lUnfortunately the schedule isn't published yet, so I can't give you a day / time that it'll be happening01:09
snap-lso, more details forthcoming01:10
snap-lIf anyone is going to be at Penguicon and would like to talk about 12.04, please send an e-mail to the mailing list01:10
snap-lComments / concerns?01:10
AhukaLooking forward to the party,01:12
snap-lOK, is there anything else relating to Penguicon?01:13
AhukaJust get the word out.01:13
snap-lI know rick_h is presenting, and I'll be (I think) doing a podcast and juggling there.01:13
AhukaPodcast? Wht kind?01:14
snap-lMy Open Metalcast01:14
snap-lshowing how the sausage gets made.01:14
brouschjuggling 12.04 CDs?01:14
AhukaIs there anyone there you want as a guest?01:14
snap-lbrousch: Were that they were there, I would love to01:14
brouschburn some01:14
snap-lAhuka: I'd love for you to be there, but it's mostly a music podcast.01:15
AhukaI didn't mean me, I mean of the poeple at Penguicon.01:15
snap-lAhuka: If there's any metal folks, maybe we could swing an interview.01:16
snap-lCC metal folks.01:16
AhukaI kind of lit a fire under some of the Penguicon folks.01:16
AhukaTold them thier publicity stinks.01:16
snap-lAhuka: Yeah, it's been a little weak this time around01:17
AhukaI suggested they get Bruce Schneier to interview for Sunday Morning Linux Review.01:17
snap-lbut I think part of it is that the con-chair quit01:17
AhukaNot the con chair's job to do publicity, really.01:17
snap-lregardless, I see Penguicon as the skidding into the finish line, tires on fire, gas tank about to explode, type of show.01:18
AhukaThough I can sympathize for the problem.01:18
snap-lThis does not surprise me01:18
greg-ganother nice visual01:18
snap-lgreg-g: They call me Mr. Metaphor01:19
snap-lOK, brousch, what's happening in west MI?01:19
brouschrelease party during the regular monthly WMLUG meeting01:20
brouschpizza, pop01:20
brouschnot nearly as exciting as penguicon01:20
* brousch eyeballs greg-g01:20
brouschthose dirty west coast hippies have you saying soda now?01:21
brouschi'll hand out CDs and swag01:22
greg-gbrousch: I've always said soda, after I said "coke" when I lived in TX01:24
rick_hsoda foreva!01:24
rick_hpop only lives in MI hippy hearts because the yuppers won one01:25
* greg-g apologizes for only derailing the meeting01:25
snap-lgreg-g: I don't think there's much sodium in soda.01:25
snap-lbut there is pop in pop. ;)01:25
greg-gsnap-l: pop is a noise, soda is a drink ;P01:25
* snap-l gets out the club... coda.01:26
snap-lsoda, rather.01:26
snap-lbrousch: When is the meet-up, and where can we lear more?01:26
brouschhm, i thought it was on the team thing01:27
snap-lIt is, but I wanted you to point that out.01:28
snap-lhint hint01:28
brouschbah, i can never find anything on there01:28
snap-lOK, very cool.01:30
snap-lAlso, this isn't on the agenda, but I'd be remiss for not mentioning it01:30
snap-lAhuka: You're still looking for someone to speak at WALUG about 12.04?01:31
snap-lOn 5/17?01:31
snap-lI'm unfortunately not going to be able to make it, as it's my anniversary that day, and we have pans.01:31
snap-land plans.01:31
AhukaWell, yes, I am, if you have someone. Otherwise, I'll ask you again for like August.01:31
greg-g....to make loud noises with01:32
greg-g(sorry, bad timing)01:32
snap-lAhuka: I haven't found anyone yet.01:32
snap-lIf anyone on the channel, however, would like to volunteer.... :)01:32
AhukaThen don't worry about it. It won't kill anyone in LUGWASH to have an open discussion for a change.01:32
brouschsnap-l: how about if ahuka provides candles and wine?01:33
snap-lbrousch: Didn't realize you were the romantic type, but if you're volunteering... :)01:33
Ahukabrousch, it's not *that* kind of group.01:33
snap-lI'm sure it can be arranged.01:33
brouschno, too far away for me. also i have no idea what's going on in 12.04 unity01:34
AhukaMe either, that is why I was looking for an expert.01:34
greg-gwhere's jcastro when you need 'em01:35
AhukaHe told me Craig would take his place.<g>01:35
snap-lOn a beach in Florida.01:35
brouschwhat happened to that DBO guy?01:36
AhukaAnyway, I installed Unity on one of mmy boxes.01:36
snap-lDBO doesn't hang out here much01:36
snap-lprobably because when he does, we start beating him up for Unity stuff01:36
AhukaTurns out it is not the personifcation of evil. Who knew?01:37
brouschAhuka: i disbelieve01:37
AhukaNormally I stick to the Blue-haired Stepchild.01:37
snap-lYeah, I think the step-children are going off to colleg01:38
brouschAhuka: a man after my own heart01:38
snap-land aren't getting the support they once had from papa canonical01:38
Ahukasnap-l, I'm not sure that will matter too much.01:39
AhukaLosing one developer should not be the end of the world.01:39
snap-lAhuka: Well, it's no longer directly linked01:40
brouschxubuntu is leaving01:41
snap-lwas that an april fools, or was it serious?01:41
brouschi thought it was from a few days ago01:43
* greg-g is typing one handed01:43
* greg-g has Rowan01:43
snap-lLet Rowan type the other hand. :)01:43
greg-g, mujklj,k01:44
brouschbah, it is dated 4/101:44
snap-lOK, anything else for this meeting01:47
brouschsnap-l: thanks for running things again!01:50
greg-gyep yep01:51
snap-lThanks everyone for coming out!01:53
snap-lHope to see you all at the release parties!01:54
_stink_i vote yes02:15
_stink_on everything02:15
snap-lI have created an extra-long OMC02:49
snap-lTrying to narrow down 8 CC artists to highlight for a new audience02:50
snap-l(punchline) it's not 8 artists.02:50
=== JonathanDog is now known as JonathanD
snap-lGood morning12:06
brouschMerry Monday!12:08
brouschCome on now. You had all weekend to relax and recharge for the week12:09
rick_hyea, I did some of that12:10
brouschBuck up and dive in!12:11
brouschomg i just found some new KDE awesome13:23
brouschthe same export plugins in DigiKam are available in gwenview13:23
jrwrenrick_h: screen maintains $WINDOW environment variable. i found TMUX_PANE but that is different. what do you use for $WINDOW?13:24
brouschso i don't have to start up digikam (5-10 minute boot) to export photos13:24
jrwren5-10min boot?  WTF?13:24
rick_hjrwren: what would I use $WINDOW for?13:24
jrwrenwhat is this 1994?13:24
jrwrenrick_h: i use $WINDOW in my $PS1 so I know which screen window I am in13:24
brouschjrwren: another case of 4GB is not enough for me13:24
rick_hjrwren: have to find it out of list-windows? https://github.com/matschaffer/profile/blob/master/tmux.conf13:26
rick_hnot sure, I've not used that before sorry13:26
jrwrenrick_h: thanks. no worries. you are my go to guru about this stuff.13:27
rick_hI'm kind of confused though, are you not using any status window?13:27
rick_his that why you don't know which window you're in?13:28
jrwreni usually know.13:28
jrwrenbut i got used to looking at PS1 for that.13:28
jrwrenbyobu-tmux only uses 1 status line instead of 2, so i don't have a clear picture of current window based on status line13:28
jrwrenmaybe i can make byobu-tmux use 2 status lines, I'm not sure.13:28
rick_hah, yea no idea. Not using byobu13:29
jrwrenI like byobu really only for the network section.13:29
jrwreni also miss ctrl-a,ctrl-a to toggle between windows. (screen)  - I need ot lookup how to do that in byobu13:30
jrwrenerr... in tmux i mean13:30
rick_h# bind C-a to the previously active window13:30
rick_hbind-key C-a last-window13:30
jrwrenthanks! that rocks.13:31
jrwrenrick_h: whoa, sorry to bother you, but one huge difference i just noticed is with processes sessions attached to same13:51
jrwrenwhen I change windows in one it changes in the other. in screen they were really separate so in xterm1 i could attach and toggle between screen windows 1 & 2 and in xterm2 toggle between windows 3 & 413:51
snap-ljrwren: Yeah, tmux keeps them as the same session13:53
snap-lthat's the beauty of tmux13:53
jrwrenthat isn't beauty.13:54
jrwrensurely there is a toggle.13:54
jrwreni'll RTFM13:54
snap-ljrwren: It is beauty, and if you don't see that, you're a luddite. ;)13:56
brouschsnap-l: steve jobs would not have approved it, therefore it is ugly13:59
rick_hjrwren: yea, it's a big difference and one that somtimes annoys and sometimes I love13:59
rick_hjrwren: it does make it an awesome remote pairing kind of thing14:00
jrwrensnap-l: you are a namecalling namecaller.14:00
jrwrensure, but there are wasy to do the remote paring thing exactly the same with screen.14:01
jcastrogood morning!14:01
jrwrenif there is no way to make tmux NOT do this, then its a defficiency and something screen can do that tmux cannot and THAT is weak.14:01
snap-ljrwren: Takes a namecalling namecaller to know a namecalled namecallering namecaller.14:01
rick_hparty jcastro14:01
snap-ljcastro: wb14:01
jrwrengood morning jcastro <3 u14:02
jrwrentmux new-session -t 014:05
jrwrenthat starts tmux with a new client session to an existing server14:05
jrwrento get separate window behavior like screen.14:05
rick_hheh, finally spent a few minute to go aroud and git pull my various vim bundles14:34
rick_hnerdtree got some pretty14:34
jrwrenI found Explore and decided I don't need nerd tree :)14:35
rick_hyea, little arrows and such14:35
rick_hjrwren: linky?14:35
rick_hwhich is "explore" there's a few with explore in the name14:36
jrwrenwell, Explore and Ggrep from fugitive14:36
jrwrenrick_h: its built into vim.14:36
jrwren:Sex and :Vex and :Explore14:36
rick_hhuh? fugative is the git tool14:37
rick_hah, gotcha14:37
jrwrenyeah, Ggrep puts matches into the error list and then I just nav the error list.14:39
jrwrenI don't care what file its in, I just go to the match :)14:39
rick_hyea, I use :vimgrep all the time14:39
jrwrenits esp great for learning huge new codebases.14:39
jrwrencuz I have no idea what file something is in14:39
jrwrenbut I just Ggrep for it.14:39
rick_hbut I do like walking around with nerdtree since it's a full overview14:39
jrwren*nod* I'd probably use it a ton coming from VS's solution explorer14:40
rick_hbut yea, vimgrep + ctrlp have gotten rid of 80% of my nerdtree usuage14:40
rick_hyay for more px for editing!14:41
jrwrenyup. YAY14:42
greg-gjrwren: so, I've only read parts of the scrollback, why tmux over screen?15:02
rick_hit's awesome! and much friendlier to scripting/etc15:02
jrwrengreg-g: i'm changing for 2 reasons: 1> philosphy regarding accepting patches.   2> I prefer BSD license to GPL license15:05
snap-lIt also feels a lot lighter than screen15:05
snap-lplus the scripting is utterly amazing.15:05
jrwrengreg-g: jcastro could probably tell us details, but I gather than byobu tried to send screen patches and they said "no ty" and so rather than fork screen, byobu went ot tmux and tmux said "tyvm"15:05
rick_hyea, that's part of it15:06
rick_hbut tmux has much nicer usability for things15:06
rick_hI know I use :kill-window -t xx a lot more now15:06
jcastroscreen is very sluggish upstream15:06
rick_hthe ability to :somecommand is just awesome for tweaking/doing things outside of the normal config you setup ahead of time15:06
jcastroit's old, and was stagnating15:06
jcastroand then tmux came around15:06
jcastrodustin tells me the code is much smaller, cleaner, easier to maintain15:06
jcastrothat and the  guy accepted his patches right away15:07
jcastroand if you use it, it's so much better you won't even care about screen anymore15:07
jcastroit's totally badass15:07
snap-lIt's kinda like the difference between git and svn15:07
snap-lsvn is perfectly usable, but stagnant15:07
jcastrotry the splits in tmux15:07
snap-lgit gives you superpowers.15:07
jcastroit's basically the awesomest thing ever15:07
jrwrenrick_h: screen has : commands, but probably not as extensive as what tmux can do15:07
snap-ljcastro: I have. They're rockstar.15:07
rick_hmeh, the splits I don't get. You want to tile, then using a tiling WM :)15:08
rick_hIt breaks all kinds of usage15:08
snap-lrick_h: They're good if you're on a ssh window15:08
snap-land want to run pep8 without switching15:08
jrwrenand I'm ALWAYS on a ssh window :)15:08
rick_hmeh, well you're already in vim then so you just run ,M anyway ;)15:08
snap-lbecause I'm not super awesome like rick_h15:09
rick_hI guess, at that point though I find my WM does a better job than tmux does15:09
snap-land ,M maps to what, exactly?15:09
snap-l(for those of us not using .vimrc.rick_h)15:10
rick_hthere done, and you get to auto jump to the errors to fix from the quickfix window the way vim intended15:10
rick_hrunning pep8 outside of vim is next to pointless15:10
jrwreni don't run pip8, i just vim-pyflakes and pray15:11
rick_hheh, yea but that doesn't catch spacing violations and such15:11
rick_h,m == pyflakes ,M == pep815:11
rick_hand ,m == jslint in a js file, phpcodesniffer in a php file, csslint in a css file, etc15:12
rick_hvoilations in the quickfix window for auto jumping around to each location directly15:12
jrwrenhow about syntastic?15:13
rick_hso I've just not gotten that going well15:13
jrwrenme either.:)15:13
rick_hbut I guess run it against a manual pep8/etc and let me know if it keeps things clean15:13
rick_hrun I run things on the CI server it's running pep8/pylint/jslint from the cmd line15:14
rick_hso same tool for me in the dev env15:14
snap-lrick_h: That is awesome.15:14
snap-lI have syntastic running fine15:14
rick_hsnap-l: which is awesome?15:15
snap-lthe pep8 in vim15:15
rick_hyea, best way to go15:15
rick_hI spent a bunch of time trying to get everything in the qiuckfix window, it's a damn powerful thing15:16
snap-lRegardless, splits are pretty nice if you're using it via ssh15:16
snap-lthat way you don't need two sessions15:16
rick_hok, well I'm a split fan in most places so I understand15:16
rick_hjust find my issues copying/pasting/etc out of split windows to be a pain so I use WM splits vs tmux splits15:17
rick_hbut yea, splits still ftw15:17
snap-lYeah, though I think tmux fixes c/p between splits15:17
snap-lhonestly haven't run into that, though15:17
snap-lI use wm c/p more than I ought15:17
snap-lbtw: I've been getting nailed by some EC2 bots on OMC15:18
snap-lthey go through and crawl everything, including the mp3/ogg files at an amazing rate15:19
rick_hyou've set the robots.txt?15:19
snap-lI've put in some rate limiting, so if you decide to download more than X number of mp3 / ogg files at once, it'll bomb15:19
snap-lYeah, I hadn't set it to not index wp-* stuff.15:19
snap-lI have that set now15:19
snap-lbut since it wasn't adhering to the seconds between crawls, I don't think it would have mattered.15:20
rick_hright, but can't you say not to index the .ogg files?15:21
rick_hand it should never hit it, if it does you can blacklist it?15:21
jrwrenmod-bw ?15:21
snap-lTwo separate IP addresses15:21
snap-lso blacklisting = pointless15:21
snap-ljrwren: nginx15:22
krondordo you set a max-age?  Maybe those crawlers are expecting that for refresh interval?15:22
snap-lI don't have a max-age on the mp3 / ogg files15:22
snap-ljrwren: I can't hear you over my skinny jeans.15:23
jrwrensnap-l: lol15:23
snap-lthey make everything muffly.15:23
jrwrensnap-l: how is that iphone and macbook ?15:23
snap-ljrwren: so last century15:23
krondorIt seems counterintuitive to set a max-age for something that won't change (finished episodes), but I've seen clients that think no-age means always refresh if nothing is given.15:26
snap-lkrondor: I've thought about setting that, however there have been times when I've needed to update an episode15:31
snap-land frankly, you're not likely to keep an episode in cache15:32
krondorso maybe just setting it to something short if you need to update could influence these crawls, maybe..15:32
rick_hyea, I mean end of the day you're expecting htem to listen to the rules, but if they don't you just need to block the ips15:33
krondorrick_h:  yeah there's only so much workaround for badly behaving things you should do before you say, I don't want to allow this bad thing and they should adhere to the rules.15:34
rick_hyea, I mean it's not like you're losing $$ or customers by blocking a misbehaving bot from your podcast episodes15:35
rick_htime wasted > *15:35
snap-lMy biggest fear is wasted bandwidth15:36
snap-lwhich is why I put in the connection limiting on the episodes15:36
jrwrenfront it with apache and use modbw15:36
snap-lfrankly, if you're downloading more than X eopisodes at a time, your client is broken15:36
jrwrenor find a modbw for nginx15:36
snap-ljrwren: I'm not concerned (right now) with limiting outbound bandwidth15:37
snap-lEvery download gets counted against my monthly quota.15:38
rick_hyea, kind of defeats the s3 hosting15:38
snap-lWell, linode, but same thing15:38
jrwrena bit different.15:39
jrwrens3 is $ per xfer, not quota15:39
rick_hoh, I thought they were hosted in s315:39
rick_hnvm then15:39
snap-lNo, not currently.15:39
snap-lBut still, they eat a little bit of my monthly pie15:39
snap-lI'm already at 4% usage, and it's 2 days into the month15:40
rick_hso you're ahead of the game :)15:40
snap-land it's 2.0 / 30 for this moth15:43
snap-lSo .6615:43
rick_hok, so as long as you're under 6.6% you're doing great15:43
greg-gassuming constant download rate over the month, which is crazy talk ;)15:45
brouschright. downloads will increase after release of each podcast15:46
rick_hdidn't he just release?15:46
rick_hok, well the 27th15:47
snap-land another is going to be released tomorrow15:47
rick_hbut yea, anyway, just saying being at 4% on the second day isn't death15:47
rick_hbut still, misbehaving clients == banned in my book15:47
snap-lrick_h: unless you're partnering with another podcasting network15:48
rick_hdoes http://bmark.us now load for any chrome users?15:48
snap-lwho will drive God-knows-what traffic15:48
rick_hand if yes, are you on the latest dev version?15:48
snap-lrick_h: It's loading here15:48
rick_hsnap-l: can you check which chrome version you're on?15:48
snap-lI'm chasing stable, afaik15:49
rick_hhmm, not loading on firefox nightly either...wtf15:49
brouschrick_h: bmark loads for me15:50
rick_hok, well I'll have to figure it out tonight I guess. Glad it's not broken for everyone atm15:51
brouschdid you clear your cache? :P15:54
snap-lHave you tried turning it off and on again?15:54
rick_hheh yea, definitely cleared my cache15:54
rick_hin chrome the request fails, looks like the redirect breaking it15:55
rick_hin firefox though it seems fine, just never loads15:55
rick_hand it was working, but did updates today so assuming since it works for you guys I'm hitting bleeding edge browser issues perhaps15:55
rick_hsince I'm on nightlies in FF and dev version in chrome, I'm on 1915:55
rick_hreally cool https://github.com/blog/1081-instantly-beautiful-project-pages16:52
rick_hmaking the github pages stuff a bit easier to get started iwth16:52
rick_hok crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4ZZQkcNEo17:21
brouschdoesn't seem crazy17:29
rick_hI find it impressive it's able to launch itself like that17:30
jrwreni like its durability17:39
brouschI like its rugged good looks17:41
snap-lrick_h: That's not nearly as creepy as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ULlgpT1UQ18:17
rick_hok, that's a bit strange18:18
snap-lImagine that tearing after you.18:18
rick_hwell I think I'd just turn :)18:19
snap-lrick_h: Well, yeah, for now.18:19
snap-lBut the days of autonomous robots distributing bundles of pain with your name on it are coming.18:19
greg-gRAT THING!18:23
rick_hgreg-g: ftw!18:24
rick_hbooo, did a big upgrade on the precise machine and no WM coming up18:25
rick_hjust lovely wallpaper18:25
rick_hyea, I should give it more love than I do, but I guess a machine you only visit every once in a while is a bad candidate for running a beta on18:27
greg-gheh, you mean you don't dog food every day on your main work machine?18:28
rick_humm nope. I've been holding out because of pycon and then since I don't believe in upgrades not had a chance for a reinstall18:29
rick_hbut that's why I keep the second machine around running, so I can say I'm dog fooding :)18:29
brouschupgrades happen whether you believe in them or not18:30
rick_hyea, but I don't do them, I do reinstalls18:32
brouschsnap-l: I like http://spikethetomb.bandcamp.com/ from OMC Ep 4318:55
snap-lYeah, they're pretty good19:02
snap-lThey ran out of free downloads, though, so I can't download anything else but Pyrophile19:03
snap-lThat's not the first band that I've had that problem19:03
greg-gran out of free downloads?19:03
* greg-g looks19:04
snap-lYeah, they only get a certain number of them19:04
snap-lat least that's how I've had it explained to me19:04
greg-gyeah, interesting pricing scheme19:04
greg-g(I've started replacing "business model" with "pricing scheme" :) )19:04
greg-g(that way I get to remember the grand ole days of CS 1301, intro to comp sci via Scheme)19:05
snap-lgreg-g: sorry to hear that.19:05
snap-lhttp://mvsm.bandcamp.com/album/de-lo-inevitable <- I've never been able to download this album19:07
snap-lnot sure what the heck is the problem19:08
greg-gI wonder if they (the band) chose not to allow downloads?19:08
snap-lIt's possible.19:10
brouschsnap-l: free downloads are one thing, but i can't even pay for the album?19:10
snap-lOf course I can go to Jamendo and find their stuff there.19:11
snap-lbrousch: Trust me, I don't understand some bands19:11
brouschi mean spike the tomb19:11
brouschno download or pay link19:11
snap-lbrousch: That too19:11
snap-lbrousch: If you want to contact them, please feel free19:11
snap-lI want to download the rest of their album19:12
brouschok, sent a message19:14
snap-lI think I know why I don't listen to Caress of Steel more often20:06
snap-lIt's all about aging, revolution, and D&D20:06
snap-lI'm already doing that.20:07
jcastroalso probably because it's a crap album20:10
snap-lMeh, it's not that bad of an album20:13
snap-lI mean, how can you deny Didacts and Narpets?20:14
greg-gsnap-l: loving the instrumental OMC #521:30
greg-g(as usual, love the instrumental casts)21:30
_MarcusI don't get why that timezone link is in the topic. All of Michigan except for a little part is EST23:47
rick_hwell it's because the website for the loco deals in UTC and we often have to convert times23:49
rick_hand whenever there's an event, ubuntu developer week, etc it's in UTC times23:49
greg-galso, it may have been a joke, I don't remember23:51
greg-gor, qausi joke23:51

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!