snap-lbtw: Meeting tonight at 9pm00:24
snap-lyes, I know it's during Downton Abbey, but deal00:25
snap-lMonthly IRC meeting00:25
ColonelPanic001oh, right.00:26
Blazeixthe meeting of the elders of the internet.00:41
rick_h_snap-l: sure thing00:53
ColonelPanic001I might be somewhat here. Always meant to stick around for one of those00:55
ColonelPanic001the meeting, tha tis00:55
snap-lrick_h_: Cool. Mind if I pick it up at CHC?00:55
rick_h_snap-l: no, I'll make sure it's inflated. Remind me to bring it01:09
snap-lcool. thabk you01:46
snap-lOK, now that I've watched how the aristocracy live, and now have a feeling of what an atom must feel... ;)01:56
snap-lWhat say we get this party started in 3 minutes?01:57
AhukaIs it time to Immanentize the Eschaton?02:00
snap-lUm, sure.02:00
snap-lWelcome to the meeting, everyone.02:01
snap-lNot a whole lot to talk about, so hopefully we can keep this brief so you Downtoners can Downton with the best of them02:01
snap-l^ agenda02:01
snap-lFirst off, welcome to 2013. :)02:01
snap-lThe only piece I have is the 13.04 release party.02:02
snap-lI spoke with the Hotel Liaison for Penguicon, and we have secured a location for the release party, so thats' A+02:02
snap-lIt'll likely be in the bar, as this time around the bar is large enough to contain around 20 or so folks.02:02
snap-lso, woo hoo. :)02:03
snap-lI haven't heard anything about jams for 13.04 as of yet, so once we have a date for that, we can start planning it.02:03
snap-lI did mention last meeting that it would be cool if we could put together a "Day of service" for Ubuntu02:03
snap-lSomething where we could participate, whether remotely or in person02:04
snap-lIf anyone has some ideas on that, we should collaborate on the mailing list02:04
snap-lAny questions, or comments?02:05
AhukaSo the release party will be 4/26/13?02:05
snap-lThat's correct.02:05
snap-lI put it on the calendar already02:05
waldo323what type of service would we be looking to do?02:06
snap-lwaldo323: That's entirely up to folks. What I had in mind was something like the jams, where people would come together to do a few hours of something that interests them02:06
snap-ldocumentation, bug triage, ask ubuntu foo, packaging, whatever02:06
snap-lI initially thought it might be cool to do that all online, or perhaps with a small meetup and online.02:07
snap-lJust something to keep our participation up from a few times a year. :)02:07
waldo323possibly several groups in different parts of the state at the same time02:08
ColonelPanic001I'd probably be in.02:08
snap-lSomething we can do together as a state without having to worry too much about getting everyone together02:08
snap-lAnd maybe get some more folks involved throughout the year.02:09
snap-lThat was my vision, anyway.02:09
snap-lSo, give it some thought, if you would, and we can discuss planning at the next meeting02:10
snap-lAnything else to discuss?02:11
snap-lComments, questions, observations?02:11
jjessebesides me being late :)02:11
snap-lRude gestures? :)02:12
waldo323give out beer with a cd?02:12
jhansonxiMake our own Ubuntu - Michibuntu!02:12
snap-lwaldo323: Is that a rude gesture? Because I don't see it. :)02:13
jhansonxiYoopers can make their own02:13
snap-lOne last thing: if someone would like to take on putting together the team reports, I'd be much obliged.02:13
snap-lFrankly, I don't like them, so if someone would like to take on that responsibility of keeping them current, I'd be a very happy man02:14
snap-lIf you're interested (and who wouldn't be) feel free to go ahead and update them.02:15
snap-lif you have any questions, let me know. :)02:15
snap-land if you want to update them, but don't have access, please let us know. I think I can give write authority.02:17
snap-lAnything else?02:17
waldo323can they be at least partly automatically updated?02:17
snap-lwaldo323: I wish02:17
jhansonxiWhat does the "Coffee House Coders" actually do?02:18
snap-lWe get together and talk programming  and code on projects02:18
waldo323weekly destressing time for some of us02:19
snap-lIt became a partnership between the groups02:19
snap-lwaldo323: You need a hyphen in there, otherwise it looks like a distressing typo. ;)02:19
waldo323:) true,   de-stressing time02:20
jhansonxiJust out of curiosity, what are the Loco teams supposed to do?02:21
AhukaTake voer the world.02:21
jhansonxiIs Ohio the next target?02:21
snap-ljhansonxi: Outreach, act as points of contact for the community02:22
snap-lfacilitate interested folks into becoming more active.02:22
jhansonxisnap-l: Sounds like more free tech support02:22
snap-ljhansonxi: Welcome to OPen Source Software. ;)02:23
waldo323for each other as much as for newcomers02:23
snap-ljhansonxi: Though it's less sinister than you might imagine02:23
jhansonxiI was doing that when I was on Windows anyways02:23
snap-lFor me, it's something that I'd do anyway. I like helping people as much as I can02:23
jhansonxiIs this supposed to be Ubuntu-specific?  I switched to Xfce on Linux Mint because of Unity02:24
snap-ljhansonxi: I won't hold it against you. ;)02:25
snap-lThe primary focus is Ubuntu, but we won't kick you out or yell if you're not using Ubuntu at all times.02:26
jjessethey let me in :)02:26
snap-lI mean, we even let KDE folks in here.02:26
waldo323and commandline folks02:26
jhansonxiIt just seems like most of the Linux/Ubuntu market forces are out of our hands.  Steam will probably have more of an impact on adoption than a Loco.02:26
snap-ljhansonxi: There's still a purpose for local folks.02:27
jhansonxiI'm near Alpena so I'm not exactly "local"02:28
snap-lAfter all, you wouldn't want to drink from the firehose of #ubuntu on a day to day basis02:28
snap-lThat's OK.02:28
snap-lYou're still in Michigan02:28
jhansonxiThat's what they say about Yoopers but I never believed that :D02:29
jjessejhansonxi, brousch  and i are are from Grand Rapids02:29
jjesseso we all aren't from detroit area02:29
jhansonxiIt just seems like a MI-specific Ubuntu LUG is rather limited in what it can accomplish.  I'm not sure the "total is greater than the sum of its parts".  IRC is nice but Google searches answer most of my tech questions.02:31
snap-ljhansonxi: We also have some Canonical employees in channel02:32
snap-lThey happen to be local.02:32
snap-lSome of whom became Canonical Employees because they participated in events (and were super-awesome to boot, but I'm selling the loco here)02:33
snap-lI used to think that LUGs and Locos were pretty silly, but there's more to it than just free tech support02:33
snap-lWe're friends here.02:33
WolfgerI'm late for the meeting, aren't I?02:33
rick_h_meh, loco isn't tech support. It's community. Sure it can be some local help, but more often just a chance to chat. Liked minded individuals and all that. We can do some advocacy, provide a lodestone for new ubuntu users02:34
snap-lWolfger: Not too late for the nomination to do grunt work part. :)02:34
jjesse+1 to rick_h_02:34
jjessei think we are all friends here02:34
snap-lYeah, that's just on the surface.02:34
snap-lAs always, rick_h_ explains it better than I can. :)02:35
rick_h_it'd be great to do some larger scale projects in that advocacy area, but requires effort which we've been thin on02:35
snap-lWell, we did some at Ohio Linuxfest with the Ohio Loco02:36
jhansonxirich_h_: I could see that if it was MI-specific but not many n00bs or potential n00bs are going to show up on a small IRC channel.  It would be more effective to visit potential groups of users like schools, youth groups, etc.02:36
snap-ljhansonxi: If you're interested in setting something like that up, I'm sure there's some interest.02:37
rick_h_jhansonxi: sure, but you'd be surprised at people that just show up in irc :)02:37
rick_h_but true, that's what I mean. It'd be great to have some people lead some larger scale projects02:37
WolfgerLike active participation in Bug Jams? :-p02:38
rick_h_things like classes/workshops/community activities would be great02:38
jhansonxisnap-l: I'm rather isolated.  I've encountered maybe 3 people outside my client base who even know what Ubuntu/Linux is.02:38
rick_h_Wolfger: :P02:38
rick_h_jhansonxi: awesome, good to hear. We can all relate to that kind of work as we're doing the same02:38
rick_h_but that's what I mean, the loco doesn't have to be about a report card on how many people you handed an ubuntu cd to today02:39
jhansonxiWolfger: I refuse to dirty myself triaging bugs that will get less developer attention than my own rather lonely submissions.02:39
Wolfgeryes, I eventually came to the same disillusioned conclusion02:40
jhansonxiI feel that submitting bug reports is just signing up for more "have you tried this in the latest release yet?" spam.02:41
rick_h_heh, jhansonxi you run an OSS project? It's a bit different on the other side /me looks at bookie bug report db in shame02:42
jhansonxiI've even included sample scripts in bug reports that ended with: && echo "YES THE DAMN THING IS STILL BROKE!"02:42
WolfgerROFL even02:42
Wolfgerok, I'm out again. Shameful, but at least I showed up at all this meeting.02:43
snap-lI'm going to call the meeting done (not to kill the conversation)02:43
snap-lso, thank you all for coming!02:43
snap-lI'm of a mind that the locos are about not waiting for someone else to do something02:44
snap-lIf you want to make something happen, you have a built-in group of people who will listen02:44
jhansonxisnap-l: We need to expand the user base so there are more fanatical slaves available.02:45
snap-ljhansonxi: That takes time.02:45
snap-lNobody ever got converted from a religious tract. ;)02:46
jhansonxisnap-l: Religions tend to turn into social clubs when they lack direction.  I don't want my deployments becoming "that other drive partition that never gets used".02:48
jhansonxiMany of my clients are gamers which doesn't help my retention rate.02:48
snap-lIt should be getting better with the HUmble Bundles02:49
snap-lespecially if they're indie gamers.02:49
snap-lAnd Crossover is pretty damn good02:49
jhansonxiMost are looking for current AAA titles.  Wine is a crap-shoot at best.02:49
snap-ljhansonxi: Agreed. But when it works, it's quite nice.02:50
jhansonxi"Works" depends on version and game.  Often a Wine update fixes one game but breaks others on the same system.02:50
snap-lAnd I can honestly say Linux Gaming has never looked better, even when Loki was in it's heyday.02:51
jhansonxiYes, and Kickstarter projects also help but many are months away.  There will be new consoles this year and unless Valve's box succeeds wildly they will probably hurt Linux gaming more than they help.02:52
snap-ljhansonxi: Any attention Valve can bring is a plus02:53
snap-lif Valve suddenly said Linux sucks, it's no worse than Loki's implosion02:53
jhansonxisnap-l: Linux probably owes more to the Win8 dev team than anyone else for the gaming improvement.02:54
snap-lHumble Bundle02:54
snap-lIt proved that Linux folks will pay 4x as much as Windows folks for titles they probably haven't even played.02:55
snap-lWindows folks are spoiled for choices.02:55
snap-lEvery game under Linux is a gift.02:55
jhansonxisnap-l: Nice but mostly older and lesser-known titles.  The KS campaigns will be new.02:55
snap-lYou couldn't ask for a better market02:55
snap-lKickstarter campaigns are only good to a point02:56
jhansonxiThe mobile shift is helping, sort of.02:56
snap-lthey select those folks who are already fans of whatever the campaign02:56
snap-lMobile doesn't do anything for desktop adoption02:56
snap-lAll Mobile does is get developers to think about targeting other platforms.02:57
jhansonxiWin8 doesn't either.  I'm concerned about winning a dead market.02:57
snap-lWho cares?02:57
snap-lWindows 8 is going to kill the desktop market the same way the PC killed the mainframe market02:58
snap-lit just becomes a different market02:58
jhansonxiWe seem to be depending heavily on a single potential console (Valve's) for promoting AAA Linux-compatible games if the desktop market dies but I can't see any way out of it.02:59
snap-lThere is the Ubuntu Software store as well03:00
snap-lValve may bring some credibility, but ultimately it's up to the developers and publishers to decide if it's worth targeting another platform03:01
jhansonxiDesktop or moble only.  If desktop gaming dies then the Ubuntu Store will be competing with Android, etc.03:01
snap-lAnd it's up to the Linux folks to ensure it's worthwhile.03:02
snap-lDesktop gamingis on the chopping block as much as console gaming03:02
jhansonxiYes, the devs matter but at this point it looks more like anti-Win8 (and the flat PC market) than pro-Linux.  Only time will tell.03:02
snap-lAbolutes help no-one. Markets are opportunities03:03
snap-land adding a robust Linux gaming market to a developer's bottom line only encourages them to continue03:03
jhansonxiI agree.  Anyways, I have to get back to my scripting around apt's lame mirror fail-over support.03:04
snap-lThat's what the Humble Bundles have taught us.03:04
greg-gbrousch: CC03:21
brouschgreg-g: Would you want to do a remote talk or Q&A for GRWebDev?03:22
brouschWe're having a meeting about open source licensing, philosophy, etc03:23
brouschOh crap, I missed the meeting?03:25
brouschThe ubuntu-mi meeting?03:25
greg-gsure, what time of day/day of week and how long?03:26
brouschIt would be Monday, Jan 28, for probably 20-30mins between 6PM and 8PM Michigan time03:31
brouschBedtime. I'll email you tomorrow03:36
greg-gk, brousch greg@creativecommons.org :)03:37
snap-lChrome apparently just lost all of my passwords.13:00
snap-lWhat. The. Fuck.13:01
snap-lAlso, tried moving the .config file for Google Chrome, but apparently there's a file I can't delete.13:01
snap-lComputers suck.13:01
rick_h_lesson learned13:01
snap-lOK, something is really, really wrong13:04
snap-lOh, this is such bullshit13:06
snap-lWell, the fun thing is my passwords are still apparently on Google Dashboard13:09
snap-lthey're just not in this browser13:09
rick_h_sync disable?13:09
snap-lbecause God forbid they sync down to my browser13:09
snap-lsync everything, and it's still munged13:10
snap-lIf this is the case, I'm deleting my Google data and starting over.13:10
snap-lGoing to check it at work.13:10
snap-lFJUHUUJU&UUYYUYUU&CU&ZXDf.n ,zxdsF[b.ZSD CJ: hkaSD FEk;uSefdCV13:10
snap-lWell, what was supposed to be a little productive interlude turned into getting fucked by computers13:11
snap-lAnd now sync is busted13:19
snap-lbookmarks are OK, but the rest of my extensions aren't getting downloaded13:20
snap-lof course Chrome doesn't tell you that, it just lets you guess13:20
snap-lFuck magic13:21
brouschDid you try uninstalling it, deleting your config, and re-installing?13:22
snap-lAh, it appears to be working now13:26
snap-lthough my proxy extension is missing13:26
snap-lStrange. I've been using it for a while now13:26
snap-lHm, oh well. Wonder what'll happen at work. ;)13:28
snap-lNice. Apparently one of the extensions I was using is completely gone14:41
snap-lauthor must've deleted it14:41
snap-lMost of the other proxy switchers are pretty shit, imho14:42
snap-lReminder: MUG tomorrow15:33
snap-lAlso, be sure to add the calendar feed to your calendar:15:33
snap-l"If there’s such a thing as cheating to get better performance, we want to cheat as much as possible. " - Pyramid docs16:30
rick_h_" As an amelioration, we've commented these sections liberally."16:31
rick_h_that's the key part of that paragraph16:31
snap-lYeah, I know. I just liked the "If that's cheating, then so be it" mentality.16:32
snap-las if droppping to C in python is somehow cheating16:32
brouschIt is annoying16:33
snap-lGot into a rabbit-trail looking at pylons controllers and Bookie16:33
snap-lAnd the lack of a "controllers" directory.16:33
brouschPure Python is easier to use on weird platforms, like Android16:33
rick_h_pyramid views == controllers16:33
snap-lrick_h_: Yeah, learning that.16:33
snap-lbrousch: I agree, to a point16:34
snap-lThere should be a way to turn off C extensions should you want to use pure python16:34
snap-lBut that also introduces two code bases16:34
rick_h_it's called pypy :P16:34
brouschI would like to see people default to pure Python, optimize with C, but if C isn't available at runtime, then use the pure Python version16:34
snap-lrick_h_: It's called Java. :-p16:35
rick_h_have fun with that16:35
snap-lWe've secretly replaced rick_h_'s Python with jpython. Let's see if he notices.16:35
greg-gok, linux geekers, how do I stop/restart my printer daemon?17:25
snap-lgreg-g: Under Ubuntu?17:26
rick_h_sudo service cupsd restart?17:26
rick_h_sorry, just cups17:27
greg-goh right, service17:28
greg-gupstart fun stuff17:28
snap-lYeah, stop using /etc/rc...17:28
snap-lor even /etc/init.d/...17:28
greg-gservice can do that, too, and is the preferred way in Ubuntu-land right?17:28
snap-lThat is a path to suffering17:28
rick_h_yea, I still end up doing both17:29
greg-goh, you mean, "greg, you stop doing this" not "you can stop it by..."17:29
snap-lyes. ;)17:29
greg-ggah, it didn't solve my problem, I'm getting notifications of the printer trying to connect, thenf ailing, then trying again, then failing, then... .then....17:30
greg-gcan't remove the printer from the gnome-settings UI (it has that option, it just isn't working)17:30
rick_h_greg-g: find the cups ui itself and try it there. second17:30
rick_h_why I hate this stuff, just wrapping the real sources anyway :/17:31
greg-gthat worked17:31
greg-gthanks! :)17:31
snap-lYou might want to make sure GNOME caught up17:31
rick_h_always find the source ftw17:31
snap-lOtherwise you might find your printers are terminally out of sync. ;)17:32
greg-gno more notifications.... I'm happy, screw printing ;)17:32
* snap-l doesn't have his work printers set up. ;)17:32
rick_h_snap-l: ugh, I used to print from windows VM17:32
snap-lrick_h_: I've gone a year without having printers set up even in the VM17:33
snap-lI tried once, and gave up17:33
rick_h_snap-l: yea, was a pita. I ended up setting up the driver with direct ip/etc.17:34
snap-lHonestly, I'll send you a PDF quicker than I'll trundle down a pad of paper.17:36
greg-gI, unfortunately, need to sign something, bugger17:38
snap-lgreg-g: That's what Xournal and a wacom pad are good for handling17:38
* snap-l has signed many a document that way.17:39
snap-lThey're not terribly good for big forms, though17:39
* greg-g has no input device of that sort17:42
snap-lI'd highly recommend picking one up17:42
rick_h_meh, just print and sign it and put it in the mail17:43
rick_h_still works17:43
greg-gstill gotta print17:43
smoserjcastro, i was confused by your "hulu and roku" comments.18:08
smoseri cant seem to figure out how roku uses hulu unless you have hulu plus18:09
smoser(trying my free hulu account on roku says something like "not enabled for plus")18:09
snap-lafaik, nothing outside of the site can use Hulu without plus18:09
snap-lWould love to be proven wrong.18:09
smoser(well, plex has some scrapers)18:09
snap-lI find it pretty ridiculous, regardless18:10
smoser(plex scrapers only work on windows, as they require silverlight)18:10
snap-lI'm not paying for someone to ship me ads with content. That's what Cable became18:10
jcastrowhat the hell19:51
jcastroit's not 3 oclock already19:51
greg-gnope, just 11:5219:52
brouschFeels like nap time19:56
greg-gsounds good to me19:56
Blazeixwidox: i'm going to try to make the mongodb conference before the github drinkup, you thinking you'll be there too?20:53
widoxBlazeix: cool. I'm on the fence, might be intersting to check out21:48
rick_h_kind of cool https://github.com/mitechie?tab=contributions&period=monthly23:59

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