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mandeljaakko_kui, o/ ready to start getting things rolling?16:03
jaakko_kuibut  a simple todo list needed ?16:03
mandeljaakko_kui, lets wait for the other two, this channels seems to be a better place, else the conversation is hard to have16:03
mandeljaakko_kui, I think so, we might agree on this things here, then we can add a branch with and MP with the TODO :)16:04
mandelfmunozs, hola!16:04
mandelgatox, fmunozs, jaakko_kui so we all know each other more or less (at least what we mentioned in the email)16:04
mandelI think the best way to start is to consider how to reuse the code that we already have16:05
robruis this the twitter thing?16:05
mandelI like the idea of jaakko_kui and me doing the cpp code and fmunozs and gatox the qml16:05
mandelrobru, yes16:05
jaakko_kuiis cpp allowed ?16:05
robrumandel, ok, great. I just wanted to point out to everybody that 90% of the work of authentication to twitter and caching downloaded messages has already been done16:06
mandeljaakko_kui, yes, zoltan recommends to use as much qml js as possible16:06
gatoxjaakko_kui, we need cpp for the keyring stuff and other apis16:06
robruso all you really need to do is a frontend16:06
jaakko_kuiwow great16:06
mandelrobru, where?16:06
robrumandel, lp:friends16:06
fmunozsmandel, I think dennyabrain is part of the team too btw16:06
dennyabrainya i am16:06
robrulp:friends was born from the ashes of gwibber. it started off as a python3 port and then slowly became a complete rewrite. it supports facebook, twitter, flickr, foursquare, and identica so far.16:07
jaakko_kuiwelcome :)16:07
mandelrobru, well that is just great, but does it use the twitter rest apis?16:07
dennyabrainthank you :)16:07
mandelrobru, what lang does it use?16:07
robrumandel, yes it does use REST APIs, just not the realtime one16:07
mandelrobru, as in, no python on the phone, sorry16:07
mandelrobru, ok, so no support for streams, right?16:07
robrumandel, it's written in python, but it's not a long-running process. it uses dbus activation to only start when needed.16:07
mandeldennyabrain, uh, did I forget about you, sorry!16:07
robrumandel, there is support for streams.16:08
mandelrobru, that is the problem, I was told by the phone team no to use python although python2 and 3 are there...16:08
robrumandel, lol, we are already using this on the phone.16:08
dennyabrainno problem, mandel :)16:08
mandelnot that I have anything against python16:08
robrumandel, lp:friends is already being used by the share app for photo uploads.16:08
mandelracedo, agh, messy canonical...16:08
robrumandel, we have qml bindings in lp:qml-friends16:09
mandeldennyabrain, so, I guess that you have to introduce yourself to the others :)16:09
fmunozsthat's what I supposed, the sharing framework should have relations with the twitter and Facebook app somehow16:09
dennyabrainumm well i dont know what to say exactly :P16:09
mandelrobru, so at the end, they decided to push for cpp but then used python.. bloody hell16:10
robrumandel, this project was actually started by barry warsaw some time ago, then I was hired to complete it.16:10
mandelrobru, very well, then I see is waaaaaaya to many people to do just a frontend... but ok16:11
robrumandel, we are using vala to handle some of the performance-critical stuff and to keep memory usage under control. it's fairly optimised at this point16:11
mandeldennyabrain, small background is enough16:11
mandelrobru, very well, so we only have to deal with streams witch we may want if we port this to a desktop and deal with the dbus bindings..16:11
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dennyabrainOk I am an engineer by training and currently working as an interaction designer. I have experience developing interactive applications especially with a focus on sound using c++, processing and arduino16:12
mandelfmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox, dennyabrain does what I said make sense?16:12
mandeldennyabrain, awesome, were are you based, I'd like to have piple to work together if they are in the sime time zone :)16:12
fmunozsnot sure what do you mean with streams, but yea, I see that most of the backend code is already developed by robru16:13
robrumandel, yeah, so if you want to play around with friends you can get some packages from ppa:super-friends/ppa.16:13
dennyabrainI am in India right now16:13
robrufmunozs, mandel, so yeah, our twitter support is not 100%, in particular we are missing photo uploads, so if somebody wanted to work on that, that would be super.16:13
dennyabrainnot sure if anyone else in the team is from around :)16:14
mandelrobru, that ppa, does it support armf (I suppose that the vala bits need to be compiled in the right arc)16:14
robrumandel, yes, we should have arm builds on there.16:14
fmunozsrobru,  it's good to know that it supports identica too as some have already asked for it16:14
mandeldennyabrain, so jaakko_kui and I are in europe and gatox and fmunozs in america (latin)16:14
mandelfmunozs, I'd say, lets assume we only deal with twitter atm16:14
robrufmunozs, yes, the identica support is beautiful. it subclasses twitter and changes the URLs. very elegant ;-)16:15
mandelfmunozs, one step at a time16:15
dennyabraintime is gonna be a problem then :)16:15
fmunozsmandel, sure16:15
mandeldennyabrain, not really, I work at crazy times :)16:15
dennyabrainwell yeah same here, so i guess nothing unworkable then :P16:15
mandeljaakko_kui, how do you see the idea of reusing lp:friends, it does make perfect sense16:15
jaakko_kuicould be ok, not really know about it16:16
jaakko_kuii should study it16:16
robrumandel, jaakko_kui fmunozs : if you reuse lp:friends, all you have to do is develop a frontend that displays tweets, all the message downloading and caching is already handled in a nice way.16:17
mandeljaakko_kui, so there goes an item for the list => Look at lp:friends and decide what is the best course of action :)16:17
mandelrobru, yep, we still need cpp for the dbus calls16:17
gatoxmandel, jaakko_kui dennyabrain fmunozs sorry........ in a meeting..... i'll read everything after the meeting16:17
fmunozsrobru, does it handle private messages?16:17
robrufmunozs, yeah16:17
mandelrobru, AFAIK there are no QML bindings for it, fmunozs is that correct?16:17
robrumandel, we already provide qml bindings at lp:qml-friends. so you don't even need to make dbus calls directly16:17
mandelso we are 5 people for just the front end..16:18
mandelwhen we could be doing two core apps instead of a single one...16:18
robruwell, lp:friends also supports facebook. why don't a couple of you do the facebook app?16:18
mandelrobru, we might want to use lp:friends, test it all the way and add streams to it16:18
robrumandel, yes please, patches welcome. there is a concept of streams in place already, feel free to expand it to your needs.16:19
mandelrobru, makes sense16:19
mandelfmunozs, gatox, can you guys work together regarding the initial ui16:19
mandelfmunozs, dennyabrain can you take a look at lp:friends, check if the ppa generates the .deb for armf and if we can use it16:20
fmunozsrobru, there is a different team for Facebook, I suppose they will have to contact you or redo most of your work by themselves16:20
mandelI'll ping around to the phablet team regarding the use of lp:friends, but as robru mentioned, it makes no sense not to use it16:20
robruif you guys have questions about the qml bindings, I recommend speaking to ken.vandine@canonical.com, he wrote them. I know more just about the python backend.16:22
mandelfmunozs, exactly, I'll speak with dpm about this16:22
mandelfmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox ok, I think we have enough to start with, lets try to see if lp:friends is the right tool and the guys in the phablet have nothing against it (I have no reason to doubt robru I'm just surprised this was not communicated)16:23
robruyeah, internal communications has been a bit weak, sorry guys ;-)16:23
fmunozswe need to  check what is missing from it (i.e photo uploading as mentioned by robru)16:24
mandeljaakko_kui, since you have no experience with bzr do you want to create a bzr branch with the todo and do a merge proposal16:24
mandeljaakko_kui, seems like a good way to gt you started :)16:24
mandelfmunozs, yes, I think jaakko_kui and dennyabrain can deal with that, I will deal with politics..16:24
jaakko_kuii try :)16:24
robrufmunozs, we already support photo uploading for facebook and flickr, just not twitter yet16:24
mandelfmunozs, gatox you guys start doing designs and try to merge ideas from the diff work we have so far16:25
mandelfmunozs, jaakko_kui, dennyabrain, gatox confirmed by the phablet team, they  use friends, so we stick with it16:26
mandeldo lets do as planned, 2 for the ui, 2 to investigate the lib16:26
mandeldennyabrain, jaakko_kui, gatox, fmunozs for you info I have nothing because I'm off to holidays in the mountains so no internet connection :-/16:26
mandelonce I'm back I'll help dennyabrain and jaakko_kui, sounds reasonable?16:27
fmunozssounds good16:27
jaakko_kuiok :)16:27
mandeldennyabrain, fmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox awesome! can you guys send me your blogs etc.. I want do do some announcements and add details about you (mail me to manuel@canonical.com)16:28
mandelwill update the wiki to point you as the official developers of the app etc..16:29
dennyabrainok. will do16:29
mandelI'll send an update to the mailing list about this and will set a new meeting for tuesday, sounds good?16:30
mandelI'll try to be there but I can't promise a thing16:30
mandeljaakko_kui, once you have done the mp please add me as a reviewer in case there is something to help you with, but I'm sure you will be fine16:30
jaakko_kuiok :)16:31
mandeljaakko_kui, dennyabrain, fmunozs, gatox catch you all later then o/16:32
fmunozsthanks, i'll send you my details later today!16:32
* pleia2 waves17:01
jbichaI hope I'm not the only one here from Docs17:02
pleia2I think hannie is from manual and phillw from wiki17:02
hanniepleia2, correct, hi to all17:03
jbichaok that helps :)17:03
dsmythiesI am here for serverguide (but never been to any meeting or even IRC before)17:03
czajkowskithanks for coming folks17:04
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb 28 17:04:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:04
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:04
pleia2#chair czajkowski dholbach cprofitt17:04
meetingologyCurrent chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia217:04
pleia2#chair YokoZar Gwaihir17:05
meetingologyCurrent chairs: Gwaihir YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia217:05
pleia2there we go17:05
czajkowskismart ;)17:05
pleia2#topic Docs team catch-up17:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Docs team catch-up
pleia2#chair beuno17:05
meetingologyCurrent chairs: Gwaihir YokoZar beuno cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia217:05
pleia2so at these catch-ups with teams we pretty much just check in to see how things are going, if there are blockers or anything we can help with17:06
pleia2jbicha: can you tell us a bit about how core "official docs we ship" are doing?17:06
jbichalike many areas of Ubuntu, we are undermanned17:07
jbichaI think for the Ubuntu Desktop docs though, we are critically undermanned17:07
jbichaI am intending to resign from being the defacto Docs lead this week, both because I have too many responsibilities now and to make it a little more obvious that we need help17:08
jbichaI'll be available for the next month or so to help with transition if anyone else wants to jump in17:09
pleia2seeing that there are folks working on the wiki and other projects springing up like ubuntu-manual, do you think it may partially be an onboarding issue?17:09
dholbachjbicha, are there others in the team who have taken on leadership roles or started to take care of some of the organisation?17:09
jbichaI believe other parts are doing a little better (Server docs & the Manual)17:09
beunojbicha, interesting, do you have a feeling as to why?17:09
pleia2(I have seen concerns that "docs are too hard to get involved with")17:10
jbichadholbach: for ubuntu-docs itself, not really, just look at the commit log: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/quantal17:10
jbichamdke is still sort of around and he's nearly an expert at this but he's been less active than he used to be17:11
YokoZarI have heard in multiple places now that the easier you make doc contributing the more likely you are to get results (eg more like wikipedia and less like...well the rest of Ubuntu)17:12
dholbachis there some kind of TODO list for the docs project?17:12
jbichaubuntu-docs (and similarly for the server guide or xubuntu, kubuntu, etc.) does require a fair bit of knowledge: the format (docbook or mallard) is similarish to html but different, bzr and LP have a rough learning curve (even though they are easier than some things), good English skills, and you have to know your topic or devote time to learn it17:13
pleia2jbicha: is there a "how to contribute" page that defines the skills needed and gives links to resources?17:14
phillwyeah, I'm not looking forward to bzr and LP :/ Once I've mastered it, I may be help out a bit for obvious typos etc.17:14
jbichadholbach: not really, there's some LP bugs and the regular "figure out what's different in Ubuntu this cycle and make updates"17:14
dholbachpleia2, there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Docs I know of17:15
jbichapleia2: it's a bit out-dated but there's some things at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/17:15
dholbachwhich might be nice for this weekend17:15
pleia2yeah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization#Requirements_for_Ubuntu_Documentation_Committers doesn't even mention mallard17:15
jbichafor mallard, #docs on irc.gnome.org can help a lot, we've effectively needed to fork the GNOME Desktop Guide for the Ubuntu one any way17:15
pleia2jbicha: if I drafted some easier instructions, would you be willing to review them so we can get this updated?17:16
jbichapleia2: yes I should be able to review that17:16
hannieAt the manual we use bzr and LP. There are extensive instructions on the manual side and newcomers can ask help via mailing list17:16
pleia2(I've been interested in improving this for a while, worked with j1mc a few UDSs ago but unfortunately didn't make a huge amount of progress and he's mostly moved on)17:18
jbichathe other problem is that when you have people that learn bzr and lp too well, they may jump into contributing elsewhere (like I did)17:18
pleia2hannie: yeah, I think that helps a lot (and I'll take a look at those again :))17:18
hannieIt really works17:19
jbichaj1mc might come back if we need him, I think he just thought it's more useful to contribute upstream17:19
pleia2jbicha: yeah, that's the impression I got17:19
jbichahe also went against the grain and switched from XFCE *to* GNOME when GNOME Shell came out17:19
* pleia2 just added the Unity keybindings to her Xfce17:19
YokoZarI am beginning to think most people don't quite get the difference between docs and the manual17:20
YokoZaror even help.ubuntu.com17:21
pleia2the docs are help.ubuntu.com :)17:21
jbichaalso if anyone's interested in docs, check out http://openhelpconference.com/ I went last year and it was great, even though it was in Ohio, we had several from Canada and a few from Europe and even further come17:21
pleia2/community is the wiki17:21
GwaihirI think there is some confusion between wiki, the help we ship in the distro, and the manual project17:21
YokoZarIt seems intuitive to only expect one writing source17:21
jbichait's run by shaunm, the guy who created Mallard for GNOME17:21
jbichabkerensa was working on adding yet another help source using the Mozilla Support framework but that may have been abandoned by now17:22
pleia2jbicha: what does a release cycle for docs look like?17:23
jbichahistorically we don't necessarily do much until Feature Freeze or UI Freeze, and then it's a mad dash to get things done before Docs Freeze17:23
* pleia2 nods17:24
pleia2so I'm thinking the rest of the cycle is good time to start getting people up to speed with how to use tools, fixing small errors and things we know changed17:24
dholbachthe current discussion on u-devel@ might benefit the docs team then? :)17:25
beunojbicha, had any time to reflect how rolling releases is going to affect this?  :)17:25
* beuno high-fives dholbach 17:25
dholbachbeuno, o/ \o17:25
jbichabeuno: well at least we don't have to worry about the version number being out of date...17:26
dholbachwhat do you think might be a good way to recruit new doc team members?17:26
jbichait would also allow someone to contribute at any time and get their work in to Ubuntu fairly quickly17:26
jbichabut I'm not sure the translators will be very thrilled about that..17:26
pleia2yeah, I'm thinking docs may still need to stay on some sort of freeze schedule for translators17:27
pleia2even if it turns into yearly17:27
jbichaI'm figuring that we'll have some sort of train like the mozilla train and docs freeze may be on the early side to give docs translators time17:28
hannieTranslators usually finish the GUI first, before they start with docs17:28
YokoZarI'm more worried that without a regular release process we'll simply lose track of what is and isn't irrelevant17:28
YokoZarSo, say new feature X lands in Ubuntu some day; I don't think it's part of anyone's process to go "hmm X replaced Y, we better mark the docs for Y as needing update" or whatever17:29
YokoZarand indeed the feature landing in Raring may be the first opportunity the docs team has to actually document it!17:29
YokoZar*raring = rolling current unstable17:29
pleia2does anyone else attending this meeting have comments about the current status of the doc team? (or Ubuntu docs in general?)17:29
YokoZarAs an upstream Wine guy, I will say that when we moved our FAQ from source control to a wiki it became less than 5 years out of date17:31
YokoZarwikis have dead pages and obsolete pages and all that entails, of course, but the FAQ itself was reasonably updated17:32
pleia2the community-maintained docs are pretty extensitive (though there is still a lot that's unmaintained, the wiki team has a tagging system to identify out of date pages)17:33
hannieCan anyone give me a link to docs-wiki?17:33
pleia2hannie: help.ubuntu.com/community17:33
phillwback a while back, there was discussion of having the ability to convert from wiki format to docbook / mallard.... did anything come of this?17:34
phillwI know there is a convert routine from Vbulletin (forum) to wiki that is up and running.17:35
hannieyou mean https://launchpad.net/~ubforums2ubwiki17:36
phillwhannie: I assume so, I know of it from the forum guys doing a convert of a tutorial for lubuntu into wiki format (I think we were one of the guinea pigs).17:37
YokoZarI seem to remember some people saying the migration tools for wiki -> mallard weren't the best17:38
phillwYokoZar: okies, thanks. Just a line of thought I had :)17:38
YokoZarphillw: Yeah I think it would be quite nice if that was the workflow and only one person had to bother with mass script conversion, but it doesn't seem to be the case.17:39
phillwyeah, I have yet to endure learning  bzr / LP / commits etc. But it is on my list of things to do.17:39
YokoZarIt's certainly easier for a less technical person to edit a wiki page and review it periodically than to decipher a new format, bzr, and our merge process17:39
pleia2for the xubuntu docs rewrite last year we did a mostly manual moin to docbook conversion, it got the docs written (woo, goal!) but docbook conversion fell to one guy and I'm glad it wasn't me :)17:40
hanniephillw, you can always ask help on ubuntu-manual@lists.launchpad.net17:41
pleia2phillw: it's less scary once you just dive in, and there are lots of people in the community who can help :)17:41
phillwhannie: I've got to learn the quality system 1st, but I'm sure most of that will transfer over.17:41
phillwpleia2: nicholas skaggs has wriiten up some tutorials for me to follow :)17:42
phillwI'm sure they would be of use to help updating the 'intoduction to docs' team as well.17:42
hannieHas anyone thought of using LaTeX?17:43
YokoZarpleia2: that seems like something that might be partially automateable17:43
pleia2YokoZar: yeah, it was "mostly manual" so there was a script that caught a lot of things but then manual fixing of a lot17:44
cprofittvery good conversation about the docs team17:45
cprofittGwaihir: sorry for scrolling back, but I agree that many do not understand the difference between the manual and the wiki17:46
hannieWhat do you mean by "difference"? there is no relation between manual and wiki17:48
cprofitthannie: exactly that17:49
cprofittthe team has people who work on one or the other, or both17:50
cprofittbut many people looking to join do not realize that both the wiki and the manual are part of the docs team17:50
cprofittthey are familiar with one or the other of the resources17:50
cprofittother people think they have to do both to be on the docs team17:50
pleia2I don't think the manual is strictly part of the ubuntu doc team17:51
pleia2the doc team governs official docs that are shipped (and posted to help.ubuntu.com) and the community maintained help wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community17:52
hannieOk, I see what you mean. Can you use the Ubuntu weekly to do some explaning on manual and wiki, and contributors needed?17:52
pleia2hannie: if you give me a blog post link, we'll include it :)17:52
pleia2(or if you need me to blog about it, I could use some reviewers)17:53
dholbachis there anything you feel the CC could help you with?17:53
hanniepleia2, I mean someone from the docs team should write an article on this for the Ubuntu weekly17:53
pleia2hannie: oh, I see17:53
pleia2I'll see about writing something up17:54
cprofittthis wiki page does a nice job, but many do not find it17:54
pleia2yeah, perhaps just pointing that out would be enough17:55
pleia2hannie: can I bug you to do a review once I have a draft to make sure it answers your questions?17:56
hanniepleia2, sure17:56
pleia2#action pleia2 to draft improvements to doc team getting involved and have jbicha review17:56
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to draft improvements to doc team getting involved and have jbicha review17:56
pleia2#action pleia2 to draft blog post explaining parts of the ubuntu doc team17:57
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to draft blog post explaining parts of the ubuntu doc team17:57
pleia2no more actions for pleia217:57
pleia2anyone else have any comments before we wrap this up?17:57
pleia2I'm very glad we had this conversation, thanks everyone :)17:57
jbichapleia2: thank you17:58
dholbachyes, thanks a lot everyone! and thanks for your hard work on this!17:58
phillwnice to touch base with the others, thanks for arranging it pleia217:58
hanniedo we get a link to the meeting logs shortly?17:58
phillwhannie: as soon as the meeting ends :)17:59
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb 28 17:59:34 2013 UTC.17:59
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-28-17.04.moin.txt17:59
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-28-17.04.html17:59
pleia2^^ there you go :)17:59
YokoZarThank you guys :)17:59
hanniepleia2, my email is hannie at ubuntu-nl.org17:59
pleia2hannie: yep, I've got it :) thanks18:00
hanniesee you18:00
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