stev96lets go?11:02
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: How to Contribute to the Ubuntu Touch Core Apps - Instructors: dpm
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.13:01
dpmHey all, and welcome to the second day of Ubuntu Open Week!13:02
dpmwe'll wait for a minute for people to come in and then we can get started13:02
dpmok, let's roll13:04
dpmFor the late-comers, hi again and welcome to the second day of Ubuntu Open Week13:04
dpmMy name is David Planella, and I work in the Community team at Canonical as Ubuntu App Development Liaison.13:05
dpmAs such, my role involves coordinating and representing Ubuntu App Development,13:05
dpmgrow our developer community and act as a liaison with app authors who target our platform.13:05
dpmToday I'm going to talk about the Ubuntu Touch Core Apps project, give an overview on what it is and how it works,13:06
dpmand most importantly, on how everyone can participate13:06
dpmIf you've got any questions during the session,13:06
dpmfeel free to ask them any time on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel13:06
dpmby prepending them with QUESTION:13:06
dpmI'll also leave some time at the end of the session for Q&A13:07
dpmSo let's get started, shall we? ;-)13:07
dpm# The Core Apps Project13:07
dpm 13:07
dpmAfter the Ubuntu Phone announcement, and as part of the phone platform we sent a call to our community13:07
dpmto participate in building the core set of apps that will ship with the phone.13:07
dpmWith this, we started a really exciting project that provides a fantastic opportunity for community members13:08
dpmto create software that could run on millions of handsets!13:08
dpmWe had an overwhelming response to our call for participation: nearly 2000 (!) individuals13:08
dpmexpressed their interest in contributing to core apps.13:08
dpmFrom these replies, we formed dedicated development teams around each one of the apps,13:09
dpmset up the development infrastructure around Launchpad,13:09
dpmregular meetings to track progress13:09
dpmand the communication channels to discuss development.13:09
dpmThese projects have been community-driven and run in the open from day one,13:10
dpmwhich has made collaboration much easier.13:10
dpmIn essence, each team organizes their work and time in the way that works best for them,13:10
dpmand Canonical participates providing the following resources:13:10
dpm- Development infrastructure13:11
dpm- Engineering management13:11
dpm- Community mentorship and support13:11
dpm- Design guidance13:11
dpm(that should have probably been *mentoring, not even sure if mentorship exists ;)13:11
dpmOne thing to make clear is that all apps in this project will have to be reviewed and comply13:12
dpmwith the Ubuntu Touch quality expectations to be part of the default image.13:12
dpmThat an app is part of the Core Apps project only guarantees13:12
dpmthat it will be included if it complies with the quality standards.13:12
dpmCurrently, already 4 of our initial list of 12 core apps has already been included in the Ubuntu Touch images.13:13
dpmWhich is really good news13:13
dpmSo kudos to the Calculator, Calendar, Clock and Weather teams!13:13
dpmok, everything clear so far? Any questions?13:13
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: is the sdk fully functional and the code is available somewhere?13:15
dpmThat's a really good question13:15
dpmThe SDK is fully functional13:15
dpmand in fact it has already been used to create all of these apps13:16
dpmwe don't consider it as feature complete yet though, which is why we still call it the SDK alpha13:16
dpmbut the Beta is coming out in July13:16
dpmand the 1.0 together with Ubuntu 13.1013:17
dpmthe code is public and available on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit13:17
dpmok, let's move on, then13:17
dpm 13:18
dpm# Designing Core Apps13:18
dpm 13:18
dpmAt the same time, we kicked off an initiative to provide design suggestions for each one of the apps,13:18
dpmto provide guidance to the development teams13:18
dpmThis was a very popular project too, with lots of exciting designs coming out of it. Check them out here:13:18
dpm    https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/grid13:18
dpmThe Canonical Design team are also participating in this project,13:19
dpmand providing the direction for a subset of these core apps.13:19
dpmThey communicate regularly with developers to discuss designs and feedback13:19
dpmfrom the teams and other contributors.13:19
dpm 13:21
dpm# Which Core Apps?13:21
dpm 13:21
dpmThe core apps project currently comprises 12 applications,13:21
dpmbut this list might change slightly as we're evaluating the best set of applications to be part of the launch.13:21
dpmYou can see the list of core applications in Launchpad:13:21
dpm1.  Ubuntu Calculator App13:21
dpm2.  Ubuntu Calendar App13:22
dpm3.  Ubuntu Clock App13:22
dpm4.  Ubuntu Document Viewer App13:22
dpm5.  Ubuntu E-mail App13:22
dpm6.  Ubuntu Facebook App13:22
dpm7.  Ubuntu File Manager App13:22
dpm8.  Ubuntu Music App13:22
dpm9.  Ubuntu RSS Feed Reader App13:22
dpm10. Ubuntu Terminal App13:22
dpm11. Ubuntu Weather App13:22
dpm12. Ubuntu Youtube App13:22
dpmAs mentioned, these are managed and developed in Launchpad, our online collaboration tool:13:23
dpm  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps13:23
dpmThere you'll find the links to the code and other resources for each one of the apps13:23
dpm 13:24
dpm# What are System Apps?13:24
dpm 13:24
dpmIn parallel to the Core Apps,13:24
dpmthere is a set of applications that were developed13:24
dpmby dedicated teams of Canonical Engineers as part of the first public Ubuntu Touch demo.13:24
dpmThey are currently also developed in the open,13:25
dpmand the way to contribute is similar to core apps in the sense that code can be submitted for review and the roadmap is discussed in public,13:25
dpmalthough they are run in a different way.13:26
dpmThey are outside of the scope of this session, but you can see these system apps here:13:26
dpm  https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview13:26
dpmThese are apps such as the Camera, Gallery, Web browser, Notes, etc.13:27
dpmAnd if you have any questions about them, just ask on #ubuntu-touch or send an e-mail to ubuntu-phone@lists(at)launchpad(dot)net13:27
dpmok, so it seems we've got some questions:13:27
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: is there any possibility that all the social network platforms are integrated in a single app? so that it can be accessible at one touch?13:27
dpmYes. In fact, there is such an app already: Friends13:28
dpmThe good things is that it is not only an app, but it also provides a reusable library for any app to access social networks13:28
dpmCheck out https://blogs.gnome.org/kenvandine/2013/03/07/introducing-friends/13:29
dpmThe Facebook core app already uses the Friends library :)13:29
ClassBotsebbu asked: is there a list of formats that will be suported by the document viewer, or a way to make suggestions ?13:30
dpmYou can check out the functional requirements for the doc viewer here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DocViewer13:30
dpmand suggest and contribute to the support of new formats in the mailing list:13:31
dpm 13:32
dpm# How to get started13:32
dpm 13:32
dpmOk, so now comes the interesting bit,13:32
dpmhow can you contribute to Ubuntu being in millions of mobile devices!13:32
dpmAs mentioned before, the project is run in a completely open manner,13:32
dpmso the way to contribute is not much different from the way other projects part of Ubuntu are run13:33
dpm 13:33
dpm## 1. Pick an app13:33
dpm 13:33
dpmThe first thing you'll need to do is to pick up a core app you'd like to work on13:33
dpmYou can see the list here:13:33
dpm  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps13:33
dpmJust click on the link for your app of choice,13:34
dpmwhich will take you to a page with all of the app details,13:34
dpmand further links related to all of the app's resources,13:34
dpmsuch as Launchpad project, team, IRC channel, blueprints, etc.13:35
dpmThis should give you a good overview about the app and how and where things are run13:35
dpm 13:35
dpm## 2. Decide how you want to contribute13:35
dpm 13:35
dpmThe main area for contribution in this project is development,13:36
dpmbut there are also many other opportunities for participation:13:36
dpm- Bug reporting13:36
dpm- Testing13:36
dpm- Translations13:36
dpm- Design suggestions13:36
dpm- etc.13:37
dpmSo it's up to you to decide the best use for your skills if you're interested in being part of the project, as you see, there's a broad range of areas to contribute to!13:38
dpm 13:38
dpm## 3. Get in touch13:38
dpm 13:38
dpmRegardless of the way in which you choose to contribute, you should be aware and follow the communication channels for the project13:38
dpmThe important thing when working within the community is to communicate in order to collaborate effectively13:39
dpmI'd first suggest to subscribe to the mailing lists:13:39
dpm1) The Ubuntu Phone mailing list for general discussion on getting Ubuntu running on phones and other mobile devices:13:40
dpm2) The Ubuntu App Cats mailing list for all discussion related to the core apps project:13:41
dpmAlso, each one of the development teams has got weekly meetings to discuss progress and solve any blockers13:42
dpmYou can see an overview of all meetings here:13:42
dpmThere are IRC meetings and for some core apps video hangout meetings with the Design team13:43
dpmIf you're interested in participating in the development of any of those apps, I'd recommend joining the meeting13:43
dpm<unknownman> asks: Can I see a detailed video overview anywhere with the latest updates and applications that already have?13:44
dpmEach one of the teams or other contributors generally blog about progress, including videos, on our Ubuntu App Developers Google+ community, so I'd recommend to join us to keep up to date too :)13:45
dpm 13:45
dpm## 4. Development guide13:45
dpm 13:46
dpmIf you've decided to contribute with development, here's your next stop: the Core Apps Development Guide13:46
dpm 13:46
dpm  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide13:47
dpm 13:47
dpmThis will help you get started with setting up the development environment and submitting your first contributions13:47
dpmIt is fairly easy, and it will help you especially if you are new to collaborative development with Launchpad13:48
dpmThe only requirements to get started is to have installed the Ubuntu SDK13:48
dpmand to sign the Contributor Agreement, which is needed because some carriers and manufacturers require specific license agreements13:49
dpmyou'll see a more detailed explanation in the guide, but in summary, signing the agreement can be done really quickly with an online form and you retain the copyright of your contributions13:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.13:51
dpmI think that pretty much summarizes everything I wanted to cover13:51
dpmFor each app, the Launchpad project link should take you to other areas of contribution, such as Translations and Bugs13:52
dpmAnd finally, for testing those apps that are not yet on the image, you can do it easily either on a device or on your desktop!13:53
dpmAll core apps run on the desktop as well13:53
dpmYou can install them from this PPA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/PPA13:53
dpmPhew, we're nearly at the end. Any questions?13:53
ClassBotsebbu asked: do they run natively on the desktop or do they need some kind of emulator ?13:54
dpmNo emulation needed, apps will run natively on the desktop. You'll just need to install the SDK, which I believe is taken care of by the PPA packages13:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.13:55
dpmIn any case, here's how you can install the SDK: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/13:56
dpmany other questions?13:56
dpmIn that case, we'll wrap it up here13:57
dpmThank you everyone for participating and for your questions. I hope you enjoyed the session and we can see your first contributions to core apps soon! :)13:57
dpmok, seems we've got another question :)13:58
ClassBotsebbu asked: will the ppa only be available only for ubuntu, or for (some?) other distributions as well (debian, mandriva, fedora, etc...) ?13:58
dpmPPAs are a way to distribute development or testing packages that are not available in the Ubuntu archive13:59
dpmAs such, PPAs are Ubuntu-specific13:59
dpmyou could install the packages manually on Debian13:59
dpmbut Fedora uses another packaging system14:00
dpmThe SDK is also Ubuntu-specific atm14:00
dpmok, I'll leave you in the good hands of my friend dholbach now!14:00
dholbachThanks dpm! :-)14:00
dholbachWelcome everybody to the session about the Ubuntu Development team!14:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Development Team - Instructors: dholbach
dholbachMy name is Daniel Holbach, I work on the Ubuntu Community team along such nice people like dpm who you got to know earlier. :)14:01
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.14:01
dholbachI love getting questions, so please ask whatever comes up in your mind - it'd be nice if it was loosely related to Ubuntu Development though. :)14:01
dholbachand please prefix your questions with QUESTION:14:01
dholbachSo during the session I'll try to give you a broad overview over how the Ubuntu Development team works, so how Ubuntu the distribution, the operating system is put together.14:02
dholbachAfterwards you won't be an Ubuntu developer (yet), but I hope you'll have at least heard of all the important moving parts and how they roughly fit together.14:03
dholbachAnd again: ask! If I don't make sense or things are unclear or you're curious... ask.14:03
dholbachHere we go. :)14:03
dholbachUbuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package.14:03
dholbachSource packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata. Metadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package.14:03
dholbachOnce this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install.14:03
dholbachEvery time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to Launchpad’s build machines to be compiled. The resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries. The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list point to an archive or mirror.14:04
dholbachEvery day CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning.14:04
dholbachDoes that make sense so far? Any questions?14:04
dholbachAll right, seems like we're good.14:05
dholbachUbuntu’s development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle. We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates. With every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes14:05
dholbachIf you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule you can see the release schedule for "saucy salamander" which is going to be Ubuntu 13.10.14:06
dholbachFeature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented. The rest of the cycle is supposed to be focused on fixing bugs.14:06
dholbachAfter that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing. From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release.14:06
ClassBotSonikkuAmerica asked: I assume "CD image" is just a generic term for a Live image, as (at least) the desktop images don't fit on CDs anymore...?14:07
dholbachSonikkuAmerica, Yes, that's correct - I should have said "image". Only saying "CD image" was never correct, as there always were DVD images as well, or images for netboot. Now we have images for tablets and phones as well.14:07
dholbachAny more questions about images or the release process?14:08
dholbachAs you can see on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule still in the "green" phase. This is where almost any change can still be uploaded. The more "red" you see down the line, the harder it will be to get risky changes included.14:09
dholbachOk, let's talk a bit about how the team communicates.14:10
dholbachThousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality.14:10
dholbachAt the beginning and during the release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summits where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases.14:10
dholbachEvery feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on. This is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so you can participate and listen to a videocast, get involved, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date.14:11
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: with a 6 month release process, do you allocate sufficient time for testing packages and if so when?14:11
dholbachcoolbhavi, good one!14:11
dholbachYes. There are multiple ways in which put what we produce to the test.14:12
dholbachThere are many testing initiatives and Nicholas Skaggs gave a session about it yesterday, which you may want to go and check out: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:0114:13
dholbachIn short though: we do a lot of automated testing on the parts of Ubuntu we write, we also do a lot of manual testing (like image testing or specific apps), and use autopkgtest as well, which is interesting because tests are run for every upload of the package or when its dependencies change.14:14
dholbachThis gives us quite a good reassurance over when things might break.14:14
dholbachAny more questions about testing or the communication bits I mentioned earlier?14:15
dholbachIf you are curious about what was discussed at the last UDS, you might want to check out http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/ which has links to all the sessions we held last week and what was discussed there.14:15
dholbachNot every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects. That is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch. Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise. For more immediate coordination, developers and contributors use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public.14:15
dholbachAnother important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad.14:16
dholbach All information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary. This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload.14:16
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dholbachMost of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu.14:17
dholbachThese projects are called “Upstreams”, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we “just” integrate it. The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu. It is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions).14:17
dholbachThe most important Upstream for Ubuntu is Debian. Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there.14:19
dholbachTraditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams. In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness.14:19
dholbachGetting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience. It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there.14:19
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: I read about syncing from upstream and merging from upstream. Whats the difference?14:20
dholbachcoolbhavi, I wanted to get to that in just a minute. :-)14:20
dholbachBut I can give a very quick answer here already.14:20
dholbachEssentially we try to work together with Upstream projects, but sometimes, for example due to different timescales or needs, we might go ahead with adding a change in Ubuntu before it's included Upstream - sometimes we also need to do it to integrate the software better into Ubuntu.14:21
dholbachIn those cases we have a "delta" over Upstream. We deviated slightly.14:22
dholbachSo whenever source code changes in Debian, we will have to make sure that our changes are merged in a more recent version again.14:22
dholbach"Merging" in terms of Ubuntu package maintenance means: "take new source code from Debian and integrate our changes".14:23
dholbach"Syncing" means that the changes can either be dropped or are accepted in Debian as well, so our Ubuntu-local version of the package can be overwritten.14:23
ClassBotnik90 asked: If one wants to be a maintainer of a package in Ubuntu, is it required to run the latest Ubuntu version?14:23
dholbachnik90, good one!14:23
dholbachYes, it's a good idea to run the latest development release - and if only in a virtual machine or a separate partition or something.14:24
dholbachIt's necessary, so you can test the build and test the package in the version your users are going to use it.14:24
dholbachOtherwise it's very easy to "just upload" a change and never know if it actually worked the way you intended.14:24
dholbachOr let's say you upload your app, but in the latest release some library it depends on changed and it crashes or behaves differently.14:25
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases explains how to set up a development release in a sane and safe way.14:26
dholbach... although it has become much much much more stable than in the past.14:26
dholbachIn the last 3-4 releases, you could run the development release very early already and it was rock-solid.14:26
ClassBotnik90 asked: Are members of the Ubuntu Development Team involved in the coding of features or just making sure that the package is up to date with upstream?14:27
dholbachnik90, there are both14:27
dholbachThere are many who work on dedicated parts of the system, depending on their interests, but there are generalists as well, who enjoy maintaining packages and keeping large parts of the archive in shape.14:27
dholbachWe have need for all of them. :-)14:28
ClassBotfr33r1d3 asked: Is 13.10 "stable" already?14:28
dholbachfr33r1d3, considering that "saucy" is still only 3 weeks old, I expect a few more turbulences in its early days. I currently run it in a VM only - but everything I tested there worked just fine for me. :)14:29
ClassBotnik90 asked: which irc room do you recommend me to join if I have more questions regarding testing and packaging apps? Or are there any other way to get help?14:30
dholbachnik90, Definitely #ubuntu-motu. There are many many friendly folks in there who are happy to help out.14:30
dholbachI'm going to give a few links by the end of the session which should help you get started.14:30
dholbachOpen Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream is interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, is interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix.14:30
dholbachThat is why we make use of “Distributed Development”, where code is being worked on in various branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion.14:30
dholbachSo as I said in my explanation to coolbhavi earlier, sometimes you have cases where an Upstream ships an 1.0 version of an app, you add an additional bug fix, Upstream in the meantime works on 1.1, which adds a lot of crazy new features, but if it's too late in our release cycle, 1.1 will have to wait for the next Ubuntu release.14:32
dholbachThat's sometimes a hard decision to make, particularly if you have angry users who want "the latest and greatest", but it's often a good idea in terms of stability.14:33
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: I have already made a first upload.. is there anyone i can reach out for further help in the process?14:34
dholbachcoolbhavi, I wanted to mention a few links towards the end of the session about this, but yeah - there is! :)14:34
dholbachThe MOTU team is definitely the way to go. #ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com is a good place for you to get advice and help.14:35
dholbachThere's also the Developer Advisory Team, who will reach out to you during your development journey at some stage - they can also be of help.14:35
dholbachTo fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it.14:36
dholbach After you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu.14:36
dholbachThese code reviews are nothing to be afraid of. The people you work with here are friendly and won't shout at you for making mistakes.14:36
dholbachNot everything is in our documentation (it'd be huge and indigestible otherwise), but you'll learn a lot about conventions and the common tricks in code reviews.14:37
dholbachThat's how you slowly grow into the team.14:37
ClassBotAbunujum asked: ​ I'm currently learning how to make web apps, And i would like to publish some for the Software Center, but how can I package them?14:37
dholbachAbunujum, I'll give some links to documentation later on. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is a page specifically about getting totally new packages into Ubuntu.14:38
dholbachWhen trying to find a solution it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort.14:38
dholbachSo you can see: it's a bit of detective work and it's a lot of team work - which makes the whole experience very interesting and you'll get to know many people.14:39
dholbachWhen you fix bugs additional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream.14:39
dholbachAny more questions? :)14:40
dholbachThe most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for “making things work again,” not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work.14:41
dholbachYou don't need to know every programming language on the planet. We have quite a number of simple bugs which are simple enough to understand and resolve.14:41
dholbachAnd as I said earlier: Good places to ask your questions are ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net.14:41
dholbachYou're not on your own.14:41
dholbachYou will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software.14:41
ClassBotAbunujum asked: ​ What programming language do recommend to use to make ubuntu software?14:42
dholbachAbunujum: that entirely depends on what you want to achieve.14:43
dholbachFor example if you work on some low-level or hardware-related pieces of Ubuntu, you will very likely have to use C or C++14:43
dholbachMany applications in Ubuntu are written in Python though and with Ubuntu Touch and the Ubuntu SDK coming up, it got very interesting to use QML.14:44
dholbachIf you work on existing packages and fix bugs there, you are very likely going to use whatever the software itself was written in.14:44
dholbachThis is a very interesting learning experience, as you dive into existing code, try to find the issue, read some documentation and hopefully get to the point where you fix the bug. :)14:45
dholbachI personally learnt a lot this way.14:45
ClassBotfr33r1d3 asked: Describe QML in short...14:45
dholbachQML is the Qt Meta Language or Qt Modeling Language.14:45
dholbachIt allows you to write apps in which you write in a declarative way how the app should look like or how it should behave.14:46
dholbachSo modelling the UI becomes very easy and you don't need to worry about writing a lot of actual code.14:46
dholbachWhen you get to the point where you define the actual logic of your app you can then very easily tie in JavaScript, or any other language, like C++ or Python.14:47
ClassBotAbunujum asked: ​ I would also like to know, Is it possible to develop ubuntu touch applications using python14:47
dholbachYes, it is. Although you might want to do some investigation in the beginning to find out if using Python won't have a negative impact in terms of startup time or memory consumption. The people in the #ubuntu-touch channel should be able to give you a good idea. It will also depend on what exactly you want to achieve.14:48
ClassBotfr33r1d3 asked: I read at the UDS that they want to start tell people to not use Quickly anymore.. Is it safe to still use it or?14:48
dholbachfr33r1d3, Yes, it's still safe to use it. If you start a fresh project, you might want to investigate though if the Ubuntu SDK with Qt Creator doesn't give you a better experience.14:49
dholbachOh and coming back to the earlier question about QML and how to use it - http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ has a really nice tutorial for getting started.14:50
dholbachIt should also show you the beauty of how easily apps can be written.14:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.14:50
dholbachSo to re-cap a bit on what I said earlier... if you're interested on working on Ubuntu itself and making it work great - be sure to check out and bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/14:51
dholbachthe title of the webpage is a bit misleading - it's not only about packaging, but it's more about developing Ubuntu itself14:51
dholbachyou'll learn about packaging, about our release processes, about how our infrastructure works and everything else14:52
dholbachthe guide is currently available in English, Spanish, Russian and Brazilian Portuguese14:52
dholbachWe are also always looking for people who can help us translating it. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ should make that very easy.14:52
dholbachSo if you speak a language other than English, try to help out a little bit - many upcoming developers will appreciate it.14:53
dholbachAny more questions?14:54
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.14:55
dholbachSo to illustrate, that we have simple bugs which can be fixed, you can take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~fourdollars/software-properties/fix-1138121-a-typo-in-CountryInformation.py/+merge/151870 for example.14:56
dholbachDown at the bottom you can see the "diff".14:57
dholbachThe green lines indicate lines which were added, red lines indicate code which was removed.14:57
dholbachSo apart from the bits in debian/changelog, there's only one line which changed, essentially "common-name" was changed to "common_name". This fixed a bug in Ubuntu. :)14:58
dholbachSometimes it takes a little bit to get there and find out what exactly it's broken.14:58
dholbachStill, it's worth it - you're going to make millions of Ubuntu users happier. :)14:58
dholbachSo go and bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/ and you won't be disappointed on the journey. :)14:58
dholbachThanks a lot everyone for your questions!14:59
dholbachNext up is jsalisbury who is going to give you an introduction to the Ubuntu Kernel Team!14:59
jsalisburydholbach, o/14:59
jsalisburyHi All, My name is Joe Salisbury, I am the kernel defect analyst for the Kernel Team at Canonical15:00
jsalisburyToday, I'll be talking about kernel bug triage, the different Importance and Status fields for a bug and some typical debugging tasks commonly requested when triaging a bug.15:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Kernel Team - Instructors: jsalisbury
* jsalisbury thanks the bot15:01
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.15:01
jsalisburyQuestions should be asked on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel. If you want to ask a question, write it there, and precede it with 'QUESTION:'. For example:15:01
jsalisburyQUESTION: What is an Upstream kernel?15:01
jsalisburyFirst, for details about the Ubuntu kernel, the top level Kernel wiki page can be found at:15:02
jsalisburyThere is also a page dedicated to kernel bug triage, which can be found at:15:02
jsalisburyThe kernel bug triage page is a great place to start if interested in learning more about triaging kernel bugs.15:03
jsalisburyBug triage is a great place to start to learn about the kernel.15:04
jsalisburyTriaging kernel bugs provides a way to learn about a variety of kernel sub systems15:04
jsalisburyThe Ubuntu Linux Kernel has quite a large number for bugs opened against it.  Close to 5000 as of today.  A full list of bugs can be seen at:15:05
jsalisburyI generally focus on triaging and escalating bugs opened against the current development kernel, which is currently Saucy.15:05
jsalisburyThat's not to say there is no focus on the stable kernels.15:05
=== dpm-laptop is now known as dpm
jsalisburyEach and every kernel bug reported should be triaged, which could be against the current development kernel or any of the prior supported stable kernels.15:06
jsalisburyThe priority with the development kernel is to identify bugs and hit them hard and fast, so we can fix as many issues as possible, before release.15:08
jsalisburyOn the other hand, stable kernel bugs can take longer to fix.  This is because a patch for a bug must go through the Stable Release Update process:15:08
jsalisburyDetails on stable kernels can be found here:15:09
jsalisburyTo assist with the large number of kernel bugs reported, the kernel team has developed bug 'Bots' to review each new bug, and ensure all the required apport logs are attached.15:09
jsalisburyIf all the information is there the bug Status is changed from 'New' to 'Confirmed'.  If the bug is missing the apport logs, the bug Status is set to 'Incomplete' and a request for the logs is posted to the bug.15:10
jsalisburyAfter the bot sets the bug to 'Confirmed', the bug is reviewed.  Based on the bug description, I will see if the bug is similar to recent bugs and may be a duplicate.15:10
jsalisburyI will also determine what kernel subsystem the bug affects.  The bug might be specific to USB, wifi, graphics, suspend/resume, etc.15:11
jsalisburyI will ask subsystem specific questions to collect that specific data.15:12
jsalisburyThe following wiki has some pages on specific debugging by subsystem:15:12
jsalisburyOnce a bug has all the needed information, I will usually ask that the latest Mainline kernel is tested and then set the bug to Incomplete, until the testing is done.  The latest Mainline kernel is the kernel that is currently being developed upstream, and is considered Linus' tree.15:13
jsalisburyThe reason for testing this kernel is to see if the bug is already fixed upstream.  If it is, usually the current Ubuntu devlelopmt kernel will get this fix when it is rebased to the latest Mainline kernel.15:14
jsalisburyTesting the Mainline kernel will also tell us if the bug exists upstream.  If the bug does exist upstream, we like to ask the Bug Reporter to open a bug with upstream, so the issue is known to the upstream Developers as well.15:15
ClassBotNova__ asked: How we can contribute to Kernel team ?15:16
ClassBotsebbu asked: if there is so many bugs, does that means that it doesn't work well ?15:16
jsalisburyThere is a wiki that describes how to report a bug upstream here:15:16
jsalisburyWe also ask for testing of the Mainline kernel when a bug is reported against a stable kernel.  For the same reason it will tell us if the bug is already fixed.15:17
jsalisburyHowever, just because a bug is fixed upstream, doesn't mean a stable kernel will ever get that fix.15:17
jsalisburyDepending on the bug, we may also ask for testing of the latest upstream stable kernel.15:18
jsalisburyFor example, Precise is based on the 3.2 kernel.  Currently Precise has all the upstream updates up to 3.2.3915:18
jsalisburyHowever, the latest upstream 3.2 stable kernel is 3.2.45.  Eventually Precise will get the 3.2.45 updates, so it is beneficial to know if the bug is already fixed there.15:18
jsalisburyIf it is, we usually just need to wait until the bug is fixed when the release gets those upstream updates.15:19
jsalisburyAs mentioned earlier, there may be a case when a bug is fixed in Mainline, but is not fixed in the latest upstream stable kernel for a release.15:20
ClassBotniagr asked: How can we learn about the working of the kernel?15:20
jsalisburyniagr, The best way is to review some of the kernel wiki pages.15:21
jsalisburyniagr, the top level Ubuntu kernel wiki page is at:15:21
jsalisburyniagr, there are topics on bug triage, like I'm talking about now, testing, and kernel development as well15:22
jsalisburyniagr, there are many other resources around the Internet as well.15:22
jsalisburySo there may be a case when a bug is fixed in Mainline, but is not fixed in the latest upstream stable kernel for a release.15:24
jsalisburyThis can happen when a patch is submitted upstream, but does not include the Cc to the upstream stable kernel.15:24
jsalisburyIf this is the case, I will perform what is called a "Reverse" kernel bisect.  This debugging process is used to identify a patch upstream that fixes a specific bug.15:24
jsalisburyBefore going down the debugging of a specific type of bug, lets step back to the bug triage flow.15:25
jsalisburyFirst a bot checks for the apport logs, then the bug is reviewed and a request is made to test the latest Mainline kernel.15:25
jsalisburyThe next thing we need to know is if this bug is a regression or not.15:26
jsalisburyIt a bug is not a regression, it has all the apport logs, and testing of the Mainline kernel does not fix the bug, the bug status is set to "Triaged".15:26
jsalisburyIf the bug is a regression, we can perform a kernel bisect to identify the commit that introduced the bug.15:27
jsalisburyThe steps to perform a bisect can be found at:15:27
jsalisburyThe entire details of a kernel bisect can take some time, so it may be best for another session at some point.  But I'll give a summary.15:28
jsalisburyBasically we first need to identify the last kernel version that did not have the bug and the first kernel version that did have the bug.15:29
jsalisburyOnce we have these two versions, We provide these two version numbers into git bisect.  Git then tells us a kernel commit that is about halfway between these two versions.15:30
jsalisburyUsing this information, I build a test kernel up to this commit and ask the bug reporter to test it.15:30
jsalisburyBased on the test results, I tell git whether or not the kernel exhibited the bug.15:31
jsalisburyGit will then spit out the next commit id(SHA1), which is again half way in between the last good and first bad commit.15:32
jsalisburyI then build another test kernel, ask for it to be tested, and feed the result back into git.15:32
jsalisburyEventually this process will yield the SHA1 of the patch that introduced the regression.15:33
jsalisburyThen next step is determined after reviewing the details of the patch that introduced the regression.15:34
jsalisburyThe bug can be fixed by creating a new patch.  The patch that introduced the regression can be reverted and/or upstream will be contacted to get it fixed upstream as well.15:35
jsalisburyLike I mentioned earlier there is also a "Reverse" bisect.  A reverse bisect is used to identify a commit that fixes a bug.15:36
jsalisburyThis is basically the same process as a standard bisect, but git is told the opposite of the testing results.15:37
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
jsalisburyEventually though the same process, git will report the SHA1 of the patch that fixes the bug.15:38
jsalisburyDepending on the patch, the fix will then be cherry-picked or backported and an SRU request submitted.15:38
jsalisburyWhere or not a bisect or reverse bisect is performed, depends on the bug.15:39
jsalisburyUsually the priority of the bug and/or the number of people affected will decide.15:40
jsalisburySince I talked about it, if you want to learn more details about git, there is a wiki page at:15:41
jsalisburyTo track bugs, the kernel team created a variety of reports, which can be found at:15:42
jsalisburyThere is a report for all the supported stable releases, CVE's, bugs that are fixed upstream and a "Hot List".15:42
jsalisburyThe "Hot List" or Priority bug list is used to track important bugs and get them on the kernel developers radar.15:43
jsalisburyAbout 15 minutes left in this session.15:44
jsalisburyThat was a real quick overview of kernel bug triage.15:44
jsalisburyAt this point, I'd like to open it up and see if there are and questions.15:45
jsalisburyOk.  If anyone does think of any questions at some point, I'm usually available on the Freenode channel #ubuntu-kernel15:47
jsalisburyAgain, if your interested in getting involved in kernel bug triage, the best place to start is by reviewing the wiki:15:47
jsalisburyThanks everyone for attending.15:48
jsalisburyLooks like sabdfl is up next with: Ask Mark!15:49
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.15:50
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.15:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ask Mark! - Instructors: sabdfl
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:01
sabdflhi folks, how are you all?16:02
sabdflphilipballew, hi, thanks for marshalling the questions, ready when you are!16:02
sabdflapparently philip will be along shortly16:03
philipballewsabdfl, alright, lets start here in just a sec.16:04
sabdflmeanwhile, if you folks would like to pop questions in the ClassBot queue, i can ... aha, hi philip16:04
philipballewSo welcome everyone to the session, here we can ask Mark ( sabdfl ) questions about Ubuntu the time is about to start.16:04
philipballewJust a reminder, do not ask  for techinical support questions or such, since Mark will probably not have that machine, and also, just tell you to go to Ask Ubuntu anyway...16:05
philipballewAlright, lets ask away!16:05
sabdfli do have a Dell XPS 13, and happy to answer questions about that ;)16:06
ClassBotnik90 asked: It is awesome to have a preview of Unity 8 in 13.10! Excited to try it out! However is it wise to use Unity 8 for the first time on a LTS release?16:06
sabdflnik90, good question. the current plan is to stretch for unity8 in 14.04 LTS, but we are confident we can have unity7 running there just fine16:07
sabdflwe already support unity7 and it's getting faster and cleaner as we go16:07
ClassBotNova__ asked: Can we switch between Unity8 and Mir and Unity 7 in 13.10 in Login screen?16:07
sabdflwe do want to unify some of the underlying layers, but i'm confident we can take the right decision closer to the time with more evidence on where the pieces came out16:07
philipballewactually Nova__  might wanna try Ask Ubuntu for that16:07
sabdflwhat would be very welcome is to have folks who are excited about unity8 getting familiar with the code and connecting the dots from tablet to desktop16:08
sabdflright now, our focus is very much the phone and tablet16:08
sabdflbut we'd welcome patches that start to integrate desktop capabilities ahead of schedule16:08
sabdflNova__, yes, should be able to16:08
ClassBotSonikkuAmerica asked: Through Ubuntu IRC channels, I've gotten the impression that Unity 8 is just "a Qt frontend for GNOME." Could you discuss (without giving anyway anything meant to be kept secret) how Unity 8 is truly supposed to function? (I mean I'm getting the impression that the next Unity isn't what it was intended for and such)16:09
sabdflwith the work that's going into phone and mobile we're rapidly building a great community around a new portfolio of apps16:09
sabdflthose apps will all stretch from phone to desktop (and tv ;)16:10
sabdflwe would like to attract developers from a wide range of backgrounds, including GNOME and KDE16:10
sabdfland make it easy for them to deliver amazing experiences on unity16:11
sabdflwe're not going to get into an ideological fight, and we think developers should choose16:11
sabdflthose new apps are all in Qt, but i'd love to see a version of the GIMP which sings on the phone and tablet16:11
sabdfland we've built a lot of foundations to support that16:11
sabdflbut we can't do the work for every app, and we won't fight with an upstream over where they want to be relevant16:11
sabdflwe're seeing amazing commitments from games companies and others who have done well on IOS and Android16:12
sabdflbut i'd like to bring as much of the FLOSS ecosystem along with us too16:12
sabdfleveryone's welcome16:12
ClassBotFlyingPig asked: Have you got an Ubuntu phone? :-)16:12
sabdfli do, and the team is focused on getting some key pieces DONE so you can reasonably use it as a regular phone16:12
=== medberry is now known as med_
sabdflthings like contact import and sync, not installing sample data, working 3G and 4G on targeted devices etc16:13
sabdfldid you see the Bing and Google Maps performance video yesterday?16:13
sabdflpretty cool stuff16:13
sabdflso, very shortly i expect the hardcore can carry ubuntu as a daily driver16:13
sabdfland we'll grow from there16:13
ClassBoteliasps asked: What are so far the intensions from NVIDIA and AMD to support Mir? Have they expressed any informal views on that matter? If support for only one of the future x-server technologies (Mir or Wayland) is chosen, will any of these two be able to use the other's binary blob, or is there too much spec difference?16:14
sabdfleliasps, too soon to tell, but history suggests that open source communities are prone to hystrionics up front and pragmatism in the long term ;)16:14
sabdflso the hystrionics were unsurprising and a pragmatic result would be equally unsurprising16:15
sabdflthe decisionmaking in Mir was solid: Wayland did not meet our needs or yours, we chose to invest in something, and we chose to do it in a very quality-driven way16:15
sabdfli find it bizarre to be criticised for writing open source software, and writing it with quality and performance in mind from the start16:16
sabdfland much of the mud that was flung was unjustified16:16
sabdflbut that's the hystrionics part, it will happen again I'm sure :)16:16
sabdflanyhow, Mir is pretty fantastic already - crisp, clean, fast, focused16:16
sabdflNikTh asked: With Unity's new version re-written in QML, how do GNOME's development and decisions affect it? Is there a plan for Unity to become less dependent on Gnome, if not on a library level, at least on a core apps (eg. nautilus – gnome-terminal etc.) level?16:18
ClassBotNikTh asked: Older (x_86 only) machines are already facing major performance issues when using Unity with LLVMPIPE technology. Is there a point to continue shipping x_86 versions of the default Ubuntu desktop for future releases, especially if there is going to be any increase on system requirements ? Wouldn't it be better if this would be left to handle by Ubuntu flavors using a non-accelerated DE ? Is there going to be an increase on sys16:18
sabdflwe'll work as closely with both GNOME and KDE as we can16:18
sabdflwe have both great relationships and terrible relationships in both cases16:18
sabdflthere are individuals in GNOME and in KDE that are, respectively, either fantastic or impossible to work with16:19
sabdflso disregard any bland statements about how 'KDE' and 'Canonical' engage16:19
sabdflbecause, as always, it boils  down to figuring out who wants to work together, and who doesn't16:20
sabdflwe will do great stuff with both16:20
sabdfland hopefully, act as a central anchor for common standards16:20
sabdfllike we did with indicators, with KDE16:20
sabdflit's difficult to disregard mudslinging, but if you can't, it becomes impossible to imagine getting anything done together16:20
sabdflas for your question on performance16:21
sabdflMir will make it much easier to have really fast performance across the board16:21
sabdflas will unity816:21
sabdflwith unity7 we wanted to try to deliver a 3D experience - layers and blurs - that was impractical. with unity8, it will be tighter16:21
sabdfland therefor, faster16:21
ClassBoteliasps asked: Has there been any intention on any of the major (Dell, Lenovo, HP) manufacturers to increase availability and model range of Ubuntu-preinstalled laptops in Europe? Is there a time frame on this?16:22
sabdfleliasps, well, if you've been watching, in the last six months you've seen quite a lot of new models from HP, Asus, Dell etc in Europe, and elsewhere16:22
sabdflthat will I expect continue16:23
ClassBotenergichen asked: When mysterious chip supplier will be revealed, it was promised after MWC, but long time passed since then and no info about that?16:23
sabdflenergichen, we have a preference to announce things in the most impactful way possible16:24
sabdfland it isn't the right time to announce that, here :)16:24
sabdflbut well spotted, it's an important step, and i'm very happy that we have made good progress on the silicon front16:24
ClassBotPaulW2U asked: Mark, I'm a Kubuntu and Lubuntu user and until recently a Xubuntu user. How do i fit into Canonical's long term plans?16:24
sabdflPaulW2U, i hope we continue to strengthen our relationships in the broader ubuntu tent, and add more options too16:25
sabdfli love that all of those options exist and invest a good deal to make it possible16:26
sabdflthere is work to be done - every cycle, meshing all these gears takes work16:26
sabdflbut we certainly don't take decisions to exclude elements of our own community16:26
sabdflit's often a nice headline -grabbing hypothesis for a blogger, but there's no substance to it16:27
sabdflat a bare minimum, you will always be able to run any X environment on Ubuntu16:27
sabdflwe've gone to a lot of effort to retain that16:27
sabdflnow, if a particular person or upstream wants to refuse the ability to engage, that would be weird, but it would be their brand of weird, not mine16:28
sabdflso anyway, of all the options you listed, i see no reason why they would cease to exist16:28
sabdfland plenty that they could get faster, smoother, better, by continuing to ride the ubuntu train16:29
ClassBotd0od asked: Canonical will be Computex next month with Ubuntu Touch for phones and tablets. Will Ubuntu TV also feature? Is Ubuntu TV still 'in active development'?16:29
sabdfld0od, aspects of the TV are in active development, but the heart of our team is focused on the phone16:29
sabdflwe did enough of the TV to prove our design core, and then we've put in place a thread of investment on some background pieces that are needed, to do with TV standards16:30
sabdflwhen we want to connect those pieces, or when someone else steps up, it will happen16:30
sabdflbut being great on the phone is the most important thing16:30
sabdflthe volumes are there, and developers are there16:30
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Now that UDS has gone virtual you haven't given keynote speeches in the last two vUDS. For some of us that was a highlight of the week. How come?16:31
sabdfli'm stumped.16:31
sabdflwill do it next time. thanks!16:31
sabdfli guess i always thought of UDS as being about the core sessions, where we map out options and take decision16:32
sabdfland the keynote has mainly been about setting the scene16:32
sabdflbut you're absolutely right16:32
sabdfland maybe i can do a retro-active one for this last one16:33
sabdfli really like the vUDS thing16:33
sabdflwhat a great example of the sky NOT falling in after all :)16:33
sabdflmuch better the second time16:33
sabdflsort of like... unity ;)16:33
ClassBotfr33r1d3 asked: Are you only using Ubuntu, or are you having some other OS on some computer too?16:33
sabdfli have Windows VMs, and IOS and MacOS devices in the house16:34
ClassBotFlyingPig asked: What do you think about systemd? Will Ubuntu continue to use Upstart or eventually switch to systemd?16:34
sabdfli think we will continue with Upstart, though i'm watching the Debian discussion closely16:34
sabdflhere's how i look at it16:35
sabdflfirst, this is by definition a critical piece of infrastructure, so having a clean architecture is important16:35
sabdflthe upstart architecture is very clean, it does one thing VERY well, and it does it in a way that is very good for dynamic environments, like cloud servers and mobile devices16:35
sabdfli think the authors of systemd are taking substantial risks by pushing so much stuff into systemd. we can continue to use those bits (look at the packaging in 13.10) with upstart16:36
sabdflbut i'm glad we don't have a monolithic init, because i think upstart is proven, flexible fast, stable, and tested16:37
sabdflthere are very little benefits to be had: it's simply not true that one will end up booting even 10% faster than the other, for example16:37
sabdfland upstart is MUCH better for a crowdsourced platform, like Ubuntu or Debian, because it's event-driven, the pieces declare what they need, and Upstart solves the interactions16:38
sabdflso, you drop in the event relationships you want to maintain, and upstart figures out how to achieve that16:38
sabdflthat's much more maintainable in a loosely-coupled world16:38
sabdfland makes for more share-able pieces16:38
sabdflsecond, it's not a decision that we have to take soon16:39
sabdflupstart has proven itself, and is continuing to get even better16:39
sabdfluser sessions in upstart are AMAZING16:39
sabdflcheck out some of the demos and youtube videos16:39
sabdflvery flexible and powerful16:39
sabdfland *shareable*16:39
sabdflbecause of the event-driven model16:39
sabdflso, all of that leads me to 'meh, let the smart guys decide'16:40
sabdfland the guys who are advocates of Upstart are really smart, they are also independent - they didn't write it16:40
sabdflthey just studied it, thought about it, and applied their experience16:40
ClassBotNova__ asked: What will be use for ubuntu web browser which we can see on ubuntu touch, Webkit Or Blink (Google Fork) ?   and also is there any hope we can see ubuntu web brwoser on desktop in 14.04 or 14.10 ?16:40
sabdflwe will definitely choose Webkit or Blink, but I don't know which we will choose :)16:41
sabdfland yes, the mobile browser will be on the desktop too, but probably not as a default browser16:41
sabdflrather, as the heart of our web apps16:41
ClassBotFlyingPig asked: Will the core apps replace their current GNOME counterparts as soon as they are convergent? (at least the filebrowser, please!)16:42
sabdflwe'll choose the BEST apps for each piece16:42
sabdflit's tempting to choose your own, but generally i want the team + community to think carefully and choose wisely16:42
sabdfland collaborate where possible and welcome16:42
ClassBotd0od asked: Back in 2011 you announced the (since oft cited) goal of having 200 million Ubuntu users by 2015. Are your expectations wrt to Ubuntu Touch uptake part of this, or do you have a separate goal for Touch?16:43
sabdflyes, that is only achievable with mobile16:43
sabdflhence the focus on the phone :)16:43
ClassBotfr33r1d3 asked: Your opinion on Windows 8?16:43
sabdflbold choices, right vision, stumbled at the gate but the race is just beginning16:44
sabdflchange is hard16:44
sabdflthe vision of convergence is the right one16:44
sabdflso i respect microsoft for seeing that and focusing on that16:44
sabdflbut they stumbled with the actual release16:45
sabdfli think they left their actual desktop too much in the past (Win 7.5) and the pushed their tablet too much to the foreground (tiles with a mouse)16:45
sabdflbut they are smart and hungry and being an underdog is wonderfully motivating16:46
sabdflfor example16:46
sabdflthey are doing a very impressive job on being an open cloud16:46
sabdflazure has been transformed from PAAS into IAAS, and in many regards, damn-good-IAAS too16:46
sabdflsorry to disappoint the prejudiced :)16:46
ClassBotNikTh asked: Is in your future plans to create an Ubuntu certification similar to Linux+ and/or LPI (available to Europe) ?16:47
sabdflthis is a bit of a chicken and egg one16:47
sabdflwe tried a cert program16:47
sabdflbut it didn't work - companies can figure out very quickly if someone knows ubuntu16:48
sabdflso even though ubuntu has rocketed up the charts in terms of use16:48
sabdflthere isn't much demand for a certification program16:48
sabdfli'd be happy to help someone set that up if they think we just screwed up the execution of it :)16:49
ClassBotSonikkuAmerica asked: With the advent of 14.04 convergence, will there be a service (hopefully a FOSS one) that one can connect all their devices with? (Possibly expanding Ubuntu One...?)16:49
sabdflSonikkuAmerica, Ubuntu One is the answer, i think, together with some sort of USB sync for phone-pc16:50
sabdflbut i don't have much more for you, i'm afraid16:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:51
sabdflhey amber16:51
philipballewalright, we have a few minutes left, so remember to ask questions while you still can!16:51
sabdflhave you guys tried a recent build of Ubuntu Touch?16:51
sabdflam loving the pace of development16:51
ClassBotFlyingPig asked: Are there any plans to extending/adding new features to launchpad/bazaar or are those technologies in "maintenance-only" mode?16:52
sabdfland glad to see the apps coming along16:52
philipballewgood build yes!16:52
sabdflFlyingPig, tools are supporting us pretty well atm, there is ongoing work but our focus now is cloud and phone so it's all hands on deck for those16:52
ClassBotjsjgruber-l99-p asked: When in the ongoing processes will you know "Ubuntu is going to make it on the phone"?16:53
* sabdfl goes to phablet-flash to check out the new power management... ;)16:53
sabdfljsjgruber-l99-p, that's straightforwardly a question of market adoption16:54
sabdflwe have a nice % of PC shipments, and growing16:54
sabdflcan we achieve the same in the phone, in a year?16:54
sabdfli think so, based on conversations so far16:54
sabdflbut we'll know for sure in 201416:54
sabdflwhat is very encouraging at the moment is the interest from top tier app developers16:54
sabdflit is an easy port for them from Android / BB1016:55
sabdfland a lot of their developers use Ubuntu16:55
sabdflso... why not :)16:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:55
ClassBotd0od asked: Some suggest that Touch is Canonical's 'last roll of the dice'; the last chance to try and get profitable. The cutbacks on release support cycles and axing the physical UDS seemed to reinforce this idea for some. How committed in the long-term is Canonical to making Touch a success, and supporting its other projects (cloud, desktop, etc)?16:56
sabdflperfeclty committed, d0od16:56
sabdflperfectly, even16:56
sabdflwe have great design, great engineering, and are engaging with industry16:57
sabdflwe could do more, but at diminishing marginal returns16:57
sabdflit is a stretch to do both16:57
sabdfli would like ubuntu to be more than just a developer desktop16:57
sabdflbut we will always be that, regardless16:57
sabdflto be more, we have to lead, and that's hard16:57
sabdflnevertheless, looking around the world, i don't see others who could potentially do so, putting in nearly the same level of effort16:58
sabdflso i would very much like to see that pay off, because this might be a once in a lifetime chance to break out of the cycle of platforms controlled by giants16:58
sabdfland i think it's worth taking that gap16:59
sabdfland appreciate all the support we get from likeminded, passionate, smart people16:59
sabdflso, ubuntu is a success as a developer desktop16:59
sabdflwhich supports our needs on the cloud just fine16:59
sabdflgoing further - to lead something like a convergent client worldwide - is a project worth doing16:59
sabdfldontcha think?17:00
sabdflthank you all!17:00
sabdflthanks especially to philipballew and JoseAntonioR17:00
philipballewWe try our best!17:00
sabdflyou make OW brilliant :)17:00
sabdflsee you around17:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu News Team - Instructors: akgraner
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:01
akgranerWelcome to the Ubuntu Newsletter Session and thank you for joining this session or if you are hanging around after the “Ask Mark” Session thank you as well.17:02
akgranerI’ll give it just a another minute...17:03
akgranerPlease let me know if I am going to fast or is I am boring you to tears and we'll discuss :-P17:03
akgranerSo what are the Objectives for this session?17:04
akgranerFrom this session you will learn what the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is?  Who makes up the Ubuntu News Team as well as how you can help.17:04
akgranerSo what is the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter?17:04
akgranerCollectionUbuntu News from around the community and around the world to bring readers a weekly dose of Ubuntu articles.17:05
akgranerI want to pause an let you think about the dedication it takes to produce this WEEKLY - so next time you read an issue take a moment to thank those who have contributed, and I hope that some of you will be adding your name to that list as well.  Remember it's a great way to get started with contribution, too.17:06
akgranerWho makes up the news team?17:07
akgranerThe Ubuntu News Team is an all volunteer that maintains the “official” news sources for Ubuntu. You can find the list of contributors to each issue in the contributors session of each newsletter.17:07
akgranerElizabeth Krumbach Joseph (pleia2) - is the current leader of this team (MANY MANY THANKS) and she is mentoring the very capable José Antonio Rey (JoseeAntonioR) and others.17:07
akgranerIf I tried to list everyone I would leave people out, but pleia2 and JoseeAntonioR are the ones who publish UWN once all the news is in.17:07
akgranerOf course there are others who help as well and many thanks go out to all those who help.  Speaking of helping...17:08
akgranerWhat are the ways you can get involved and help create UWN?17:08
akgranerLink Collectors17:09
akgranerSummary Writers17:09
akgranerStats Collector17:09
akgranerNow lets take a look at each of these roles:17:09
akgranerLink Collectors17:10
akgranerCollect links and add to17:10
akgranerThese can and should  be collected throughout the week.17:10
akgranerEach section of the newsletter and what goes into those sections can be seen by view the raw text version on the the issue template17:10
akgranerIf you want to help collect links but are sure where to start looking then check out the Link suggestions page at:17:11
akgranerAny questions about Link Collectors?17:11
akgranerSummary Writers17:12
akgranerThis is where you can write summaries for the links which were collected.  Don’t worry we have editors who will fix summaries as well, and the more you do the better you get at it.  Have fun!17:12
akgranerStats Collector17:12
akgranerRuns a series of scripts and visits sites to collect statistics.17:12
akgranerAgain see raw text of IssueTemplate for section details at:17:12
akgranerGo through newsletter to add finishing pieces and check for spelling and grammar errors.17:14
akgranerDetails for this process can be found at:17:14
akgranerhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 7-917:14
akgranerActually releases the newsletter via wiki, email, IRC, etc17:14
akgranerDetails for this process can be found at:17:15
akgranerhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 11-2017:15
akgranerThen rotates and preps the newsletter template on wiki between releases17:15
akgranerDetails for this process can be found at:17:15
akgranerhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 1-3 and 21-2417:15
akgranerSo there is the process and "jobs" that need to be done weekly by the team.17:15
akgranerAny questions, comments, feedback on content etc?17:16
akgranerNo? Ok great.17:17
akgranerWhere can I find out more information about UWN?17:17
akgranerUbuntu News Homepage - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter17:17
akgranerInformation on the current issue and the work in progress can be found at:17:18
akgranerLatest Issue - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue31717:18
akgranerUpcoming Issue - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue31817:19
akgranerPrep Doc17:19
akgranerLink Suggestion Page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions17:20
akgranerStyle Guidelines - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/StyleGuidelines17:20
akgranerArchives - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Archive17:20
akgranerNow that you see how easy and organized we are  I hope you're asking yourself "How can I join?"17:21
akgranerThe team collaborates largely on IRC in #ubuntu-news on irc.freenode.net.17:21
akgranerIf you'd like to be a summary writer, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at editor.ubuntu.news@ubuntu.com to get your name on a list of summary writers who are emailed weekly.17:21
akgranerIf you'd like to be an editor, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at editor.ubuntu.news@ubuntu.com to get your name on a list of editors who are emailed weekly.17:22
akgranereasy peasy!17:22
akgranerThe workflow looks like this17:22
akgranerContributors collaborate on the Google Document to collect links from the week. Anyone may add links here, but please do not delete any.17:22
akgranerOn Friday and Saturday these links are reviewed and reorganized, some may be deleted if there are too many or there are content issues.17:23
akgranerOver the weekend, summary writers are contacted. If you'd like to be a summary writer, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at editor.ubuntu.news@ubuntu.com to get your name on a list of summary writers who are emailed weekly.17:23
akgranerSunday night and Monday morning editors are contacted to review the near-complete document. If you'd like to be an editor, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at editor.ubuntu.news@ubuntu.com to get your name on a list of editors who are emailed weekly.17:23
akgranerMonday morning Ubuntu Stats are added17:23
akgranerMonday evening the newsletter is released.17:24
akgranerThe full process for publishing the Ubuntu Weekly News is defined here: UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit17:24
akgranerThere you have all you ever thought you might want to know about UWN and how you can help :-)17:24
akgranerAre there any questions?17:25
akgranerThank you again for joining this session, for your questions and I hope that we will see some new faces/IRC nicks joining us on the news team!17:26
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:50
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:55
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html18:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
=== dduffey_afk is now known as dduffey

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