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| LaserJock | mdke: well it works fine in dapper | 12:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgwork | LaserJock, ubuntu docs are not really a target for backporting, so I wouldn't worry abut it | 12:05 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: np, I was just booted into breezy and wanted to see the new stuff | 12:06 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, true | 12:17 |
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| Burgwork | mdke_, do you have connection issues or are you at home now? | 12:24 |
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| mdke_ | Burgwork, both | 12:31 |
| Burgwork | ah | 12:31 |
| Burgwork | I am tired and bored of work right now | 12:31 |
| mdke_ | i always irc from my home server, so the connection is a bit dodgy | 12:31 |
| mdke_ | my wifi keeps going down so I reboot the router and it cuts the connection | 12:32 |
| Burgwork | I am glad I live in a country with great bandwidth | 12:32 |
| mdke_ | heh | 12:32 |
| mdke_ | me too, but I need to take advantage by paying for some | 12:32 |
| mdke_ | it's the damn router that is the main problem though | 12:32 |
| === mdke_ kicks | ||
| Burgwork | even the neighbours stolen bandwidth is good | 12:32 |
| mdke_ | heh | 12:33 |
| mdke_ | all my neighbours have closed APs | 12:33 |
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| Burgwork | my neighbours aren't so smart | 12:33 |
| mdke_ | :) | 12:34 |
| Burgwork | mediawiki 1.6 is going to get a WYSIWYG editor | 12:36 |
| mdke | moin 1.6 will be able to turn water into wine | 12:43 |
| mdke | actually that's a bit blasphemous | 12:44 |
| mdke | moin 1.6 will be able to turn lead into gold | 12:44 |
| Burgwork | right | 12:44 |
| Burgwork | moin is wonderful is some cases and mediawiki in others | 12:44 |
| mdke | nah, nah | 12:44 |
| mdke | that's far too conciliatory | 12:44 |
| Burgwork | developers need moin, we need mediawiki | 12:44 |
| Burgwork | becuase they target different audiences and make different assumptions | 12:44 |
| mdke | moin is good stuff | 12:44 |
| Burgwork | for developers | 12:45 |
| mdke | i'm not a developer | 12:45 |
| Burgwork | exactly | 12:45 |
| mdke | and I like moin | 12:45 |
| Burgwork | moin makes the assumption that those editing the wiki have another method of communicatin | 12:46 |
| Burgwork | an assumption which turns out to be wrong when you are dealing with documentation in Ubuntu | 12:46 |
| Burgwork | but perfectly correct for the developers of Ubuntu | 12:46 |
| Burgwork | mdke, would you not agree? | 12:54 |
| mdke | i don't think so | 12:54 |
| mdke | Burgwork, what do you mean by "another method of communication" | 12:55 |
| Burgwork | the talk pages the mediawiki has by default | 12:55 |
| Burgwork | and the functionality built around them | 12:55 |
| Burgwork | and yes moin can do *some* of that | 12:55 |
| mdke | I don't know mediawiki, but how does talk pages help for dealing with documentation | 12:55 |
| Burgwork | there is a cool thing where you can allow anonymous editing on talk pages but lock the actual article itself | 12:56 |
| mdke | ah right | 12:56 |
| mdke | seems sensible | 12:56 |
| Burgwork | as well as when you post a note to a users talk page on mediawiki, it tells them about it | 12:57 |
| mdke | seems sensible too | 12:57 |
| Burgwork | moin could have those things, but doesn't | 12:57 |
| Burgwork | moin also makes the assumption that content is more important than presentation | 12:57 |
| Burgwork | mediawiki assumes they are equal | 12:58 |
| Burgwork | again, an assumptoin that works for developers but not for documentation | 12:58 |
| Burgwork | a small example of this is the table of contents | 12:59 |
| Burgwork | needs to be manually created on moin but not on mediawiki | 12:59 |
| mdke | these are all bugs in moin IMHO | 01:00 |
| Burgwork | yes, but when will they be fixed? | 01:00 |
| mdke | when someone reports them | 01:00 |
| mdke | you've done that I suppose | 01:00 |
| mdke | so, dunno | 01:00 |
| Burgwork | mediawiki is not perfect either | 01:03 |
| Burgwork | we really need a method of publishing the docs | 01:03 |
| Burgwork | ie, two sites | 01:03 |
| Burgwork | a wiki on doc.u.c that is editable by all | 01:04 |
| mdke | mm? | 01:04 |
| mdke | ah | 01:04 |
| Burgwork | and then the finished stuff on help.u.c that is editable by only us | 01:04 |
| mdke | i've talked this over with henrik quite a bit | 01:04 |
| Burgwork | but has a talk page that can be edited by anybody | 01:04 |
| mdke | he would like that option, but I don't like it much, i'd prefer a wiki on help.u.c editable by all, and stable docs being restricted | 01:05 |
| Burgwork | but help is where we drive end users | 01:05 |
| Burgwork | we cannot have every joe blow editing them | 01:05 |
| Burgwork | by the time a doc hits help.u.c it should be mostly feature complete | 01:05 |
| mdke | i would have help.u.c with reliable docs | 01:05 |
| mdke | and help.u.c/wiki with community maintained docs | 01:06 |
| Burgwork | ugh | 01:06 |
| Burgwork | that is too confusing to the end user, IMHO | 01:06 |
| Burgwork | and their should be no seperation between our docs and "community" docs | 01:06 |
| Burgwork | s/their/there | 01:07 |
| Burgwork | there should only be drafting docs and published docs | 01:07 |
| mdke | well then you'll need to abolish the docteam repository | 01:07 |
| mdke | and work only in wiki form | 01:07 |
| Burgwork | not really | 01:07 |
| Burgwork | but this seperation between online docs and web docs needs to end, in some form | 01:08 |
| Burgwork | make that offline docs | 01:08 |
| mdke | well you'll have to abolish the distinction between online and offline then I guess | 01:09 |
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| Burgwork | somewhat | 01:10 |
| mdke | abolish the internet! | 01:12 |
| mdke | Burgwork, I've uploaded a couple of drawings that me and henrik did when trying to figure out how to implement BetterWikiDocs, you can save them from that wiki page and open the with openoffice | 01:14 |
| Burgwork | ok | 01:15 |
| mdke | feel free to do one yourself | 01:15 |
| === Burgwork is on the phone with a publisher | ||
| mdke | ok, --> sleep | 01:15 |
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| mr4005 | Hullo? | 02:06 |
| LaserJock | Hi | 02:06 |
| mr4005 | Setting myself up with the needed software to contribute. The getting started page says get docbook and subversion. There are a lot of docbook pakages shown in aptitude. Which are needed/relevant? Which should be ignored? | 02:08 |
| mr4005 | Subversion was easier, the choices are smaller and more decipherable. | 02:08 |
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| LaserJock | mr4005: I think xsltproc, docbook-xsl, and docbook-defguide are good to start with | 02:09 |
| LaserJock | mr4005: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocBook is where I got that info at. I think that is all I have for docbook stuff | 02:10 |
| mr4005 | Ah! xsltproc was not found while searching for docbook. | 02:10 |
| mr4005 | << off to read that page more closely | 02:11 |
| mr4005 | Thanks, LaserJock | 02:11 |
| LaserJock | xsltproc is cool because it allows you to turn your Docbook xml into html | 02:12 |
| mr4005 | or docbooks into html pages | 02:19 |
| Burgwork | night | 02:20 |
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| === rob1 looks in | ||
| Madpilot | hi rob1 | 06:39 |
| rob1 | hi Madpilot | 06:39 |
| Madpilot | have you seen my email about CD burning in the Desktop Guide? | 06:40 |
| rob1 | no not yet, evolution is playing funny buggers | 06:40 |
| Madpilot | if I'm finding typos and errors in the desktop guide html, should I just start editing, crank out diffs, and send them to the list? | 06:44 |
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| rob1 | the html is automatically generated from the xml, but as for the copy on help.u.c go feel free to edit | 06:56 |
| Madpilot | yeah, just realized the html isn't actually in the svn - I'll start plugging away at the xml. | 06:57 |
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| Madpilot | OK, I'm confused... what I've got in my svn d/l bears no resemblance to the filenames in use on doc.u.c... | 07:07 |
| rob1 | thats because it isn't the same | 07:07 |
| Madpilot | http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch02s03.html <-- where is this file, in the xml versions from svn? | 07:07 |
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| rob1 | no that was generated using xsltproc from the xml | 07:07 |
| rob1 | everything under /build is generated when you run the makefile | 07:08 |
| rob1 | (depending on what you want to build) | 07:08 |
| Madpilot | ... I think I need to go read some of the DocTeam "how we do things" stuff again, before I look even more clueless :P | 07:09 |
| rob1 | in xml the desktopguide.xml file in that directory is the main file, which only contains xreferences to the other xml files | 07:09 |
| Madpilot | right | 07:10 |
| rob1 | xml file layout != generated html layout | 07:10 |
| Madpilot | rob1: that's why XML makes my head hurt... | 07:10 |
| rob1 | xml has stylesheets that determine how to break things up | 07:10 |
| Madpilot | ah, that Gnomebaker stuff is in common-tasks.xml | 07:11 |
| rob1 | yep | 07:11 |
| Madpilot | gah... I know we've got good reason to use XML, but (X)HTML is just so much **easier** | 07:14 |
| rob1 | nah, one you get used to xml its just as easy | 07:14 |
| rob1 | it just has a lot more features that you can use | 07:14 |
| rob1 | when I say xml, I mean docbook xml | 07:14 |
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| mdke_ | ah, Madpilot, awesome news that you're starting to get into the docs | 09:09 |
| mdke_ | rob1, you didn't reply to my 10 thousand emails yesterday :( | 09:10 |
| Madpilot | mdke_: right now I'm mostly staring at XML and wondering when my eyes will start bleeding ;) | 09:10 |
| mdke_ | Madpilot, aw it's not as bad as all that! | 09:11 |
| Madpilot | not quite | 09:11 |
| Madpilot | close, though | 09:11 |
| mdke_ | you'll get used to it :) | 09:11 |
| Madpilot | expect my first few diffs to be total crap :P | 09:12 |
| Madpilot | code-wise, that is | 09:12 |
| mdke_ | Madpilot, the important thing is to use the validation tool in our repo | 09:13 |
| mdke_ | that way you can check that the doc is ok before doing the diff | 09:13 |
| mdke_ | Madpilot, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository | 09:13 |
| Madpilot | k, thanks - I'll read that tomorrow - I'm just about to crash for the night | 09:14 |
| mdke_ | rob1, so what do I do with my working copy of common-tasks.xml | 09:14 |
| mdke_ | nuke, or commit? | 09:14 |
| === mdke_ goes to work | ||
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| jsgotangco | hey guys | 09:42 |
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| HrdwrBoB | 21:05 < raphink> I upgraded my dapper and now it doesn't recognize my sound card anymore :S | 11:06 |
| HrdwrBoB | er | 11:06 |
| HrdwrBoB | ... whoops | 11:06 |
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| mhz | hi all | 03:46 |
| mhz | I see this http://wiki.edubuntu.org/CorporateUbuntu | 03:47 |
| mhz | and the first line mention 'corporate environment by Naaman Campbell.' | 03:47 |
| mhz | just to have a clear policy in my head... do we want this 'by author' things? | 03:48 |
| mdke_ | no we don't. But we have not yet established the licence policy on the wiki | 03:49 |
| mhz | so, i dont edit it? | 03:49 |
| mdke_ | no | 03:49 |
| mhz | ok | 03:49 |
| mdke_ | in any case, the guide doesn't appear to have been written | 03:49 |
| mhz | would be ok if i create a CategoryAuthor ? | 03:50 |
| mdke_ | ? | 03:50 |
| mhz | so we can easily get those edited after policy has been up | 03:50 |
| mdke_ | ok... | 03:51 |
| mdke_ | actually perhaps that is a bad idea | 03:52 |
| mhz | ? | 03:52 |
| mdke_ | we will probably have to give people a chance to remove documents which they are not happy with licensing under a "no attribution" licence policy | 03:52 |
| mhz | ooooh, good point | 03:53 |
| mhz | and how do you think we'll inform those people about the wiki policy? | 03:54 |
| mhz | I have noticed many wiki page creators are not subscribed to pages :D | 03:54 |
| mdke_ | i don't know | 03:55 |
| mhz | ok | 03:58 |
| mhz | so, I'll make my own subpage listing those pages i have found that include the "by author" thing. once we set the policy, (when?) it'll be a little easier to inform them, at least manually. | 04:00 |
| mpt | "... setting up Ubuntu for use ... by Naaman Campbell" | 04:28 |
| mpt | I might want to set up Ubuntu for use by someone else... | 04:29 |
| mdke_ | heh | 04:29 |
| mhz | he | 04:29 |
| mpt | that doc is on the wrong wiki anyway | 04:31 |
| mpt | so that's two excuses for nuking the byline | 04:31 |
| mdke_ | ? | 04:32 |
| mdke_ | mpt, they are the same wiki with a different address, mhz just posted that link because he is an edu kinda guy | 04:32 |
| mpt | the same wiki with a different address? | 04:36 |
| === mpt 's head hurts | ||
| mdke_ | i mean | 04:36 |
| mhz | they are sharing /data so we should see same pages | 04:36 |
| mdke_ | wiki.edubuntu.org and wiki.ubuntu.com have the same pages | 04:36 |
| mhz | yes BUT.. | 04:37 |
| mhz | one is working https and the other only http | 04:37 |
| mdke_ | really? | 04:37 |
| mhz | :( | 04:37 |
| mdke_ | how do you authenticate? | 04:37 |
| mhz | indeed | 04:37 |
| mhz | I have just found out that I have to login in www.ubuntu.org | 04:38 |
| mhz | so I get access to all pages | 04:38 |
| mdke_ | you mean edubuntu.org | 04:39 |
| mhz | so, now that I loged in via edubuntu, I can't reach ubuntu pages duh! | 04:39 |
| mhz | nop. | 04:39 |
| mpt | www.ubuntu.org isn't computer-related :-) | 04:39 |
| mdke_ | quite | 04:39 |
| === mhz will logout to show | ||
| mhz | http://www.ubuntu.com/ --> use wiki tab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ --> then login link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences | 04:41 |
| mhz | and now, I can see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CorporateUbuntu | 04:42 |
| mhz | notice the diff URL but same content | 04:43 |
| mhz | :) | 04:43 |
| mhz | however, I had first loged in via www.edubuntu.org, I could have not reached https:// urls | 04:44 |
| mhz | however, I would have seen same exact contents | 04:44 |
| mhz | now, the question is... Should we consider that a bug? or just a nonsense way to get contents ? | 04:44 |
| === mdke_ shrugs | ||
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| === mdke hussles rob1 | ||
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| Burgwork | how do I get grep to only show me each match once? | 10:53 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: not sure, I would pipe to sort and then uniq but maybe I should read the grep man page | 10:54 |
| LaserJock | or is that even what you are looking for ? | 10:55 |
| Burgwork | uniq did what I was looking for | 10:55 |
| Burgwork | grr, bloody sort | 10:57 |
| Burgwork | n3 | 10:57 |
| Burgwork | n3129 | 10:57 |
| Burgwork | it does stupid crap like that ^ | 10:57 |
| LaserJock | I have a couple of questions about the server guide | 11:14 |
| LaserJock | In the last paragraph of the preface it talks about using vim as the text editor | 11:15 |
| LaserJock | I mentions sudo, but it capitalizes it to "Sudo". That isn't right is it? | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | also it says "Its recommended that you also run | 11:17 |
| LaserJock | ..." but shouldn't that be "It's" ? | 11:17 |
| LaserJock | or I guess it should be "It is" to eliminate the contraction | 11:23 |
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