iheartubuntu2so i swapped the hard drive out of my neighbors computer01:13
iheartubuntu2it ran fine for a day01:13
iheartubuntu2now its shutting itself off again01:13
iheartubuntu2i figured to replace it no matter since it was making horrible clicking sounds01:14
philipballew_did you back it up?01:14
iheartubuntu2so... im taking a stab in the dark and bought a new power supply for him.01:14
iheartubuntu2$17 got me a 400w01:14
iheartubuntu2no shipping, no tax :)01:14
philipballew_that wouldn't affect the hd would it?01:16
philipballew_thats a realy good price?01:16
philipballew_howd you do so good :)01:16
iheartubuntu2ive always gone there to find the lowest deals01:16
iheartubuntu2they are just a site linking to other websites deals01:17
bkerensaare you sure it was the hdd making noise?01:17
iheartubuntu2but there was a slight sound from inside the power supply after i switched the HD01:17
iheartubuntu2im wondering if some capacitor was dying inside the power supply01:18
iheartubuntu2so i figured 17 bucks is worth a shot01:20
iheartubuntu2the only thing ledft is the motherboard, and im not messing with it01:23
iheartubuntu2please excuse me, i must read my latest Martha Stewart issue01:28
philipballew_^ yes!!!!01:37
iheartubuntu2I have a stack.... Martha Stewart Living, Cooks Illustrated, Cigar Aficionado, and This Old House. I havent sat down in months to just sit and read some articles01:39
iheartubuntu2Martha and I go way back :)01:39
iheartubuntu2I have the last 15 years of issues01:39
iheartubuntu2Cooks is by far the best recipe mag ive ever seen. no ads at all01:41
philipballewdoes anyone here know debian at all02:47
philipballewor network manager?02:47
akkdebian sure, network manager no02:58
akk"knowing debian" is mostly about the same as knowing ubuntu, minus all the ubuntu desktoppy stuff02:59
philipballewhey DarkwingDuck! whats up :)03:27
=== bkerensa_ is now known as bkerensa
bkerensapleia2: http://imgur.com/k1Q6m <-- they arrived17:46
nhainesbkerensa: no Ubuntu font?  :)17:47
nhainesCan I get source and pricing info from you?17:47
bkerensaI was trying to be eco conscious :P17:48
bkerensasource & pricing info?17:48
bkerensaCustomInk printed them and they cost $174 with free overnight shipping for 8 shirts17:48
bkerensareason for high cost is because we got some large sizes :D17:49
bkerensawe didnt pay for them though ;)17:49
nhainesYup, I'm trying to source sizes for Ubucon shirts in 2012.17:49
nhainesErr, not sizes.  Suppliers.17:49
bkerensaCustomInk ;) they are ok.... I dont like the fact they dont have a login system but a lot of companies use them :D17:49
bkerensaI suggest CustomInk, Printfection17:50
bkerensanhaines: Where will Ubucon be?17:50
nhainesbkerensa: First day of SCaLE10X in Los Angeles.17:51
bkerensahorrible location :P17:52
bkerensaLA is too darn hot17:52
nhainesAwesome location!17:52
bkerensaand traffic is epic17:52
pleia2not in january17:52
pleia2it was chilly17:52
nhainesThen I might do a standalone one over the summer.17:52
bkerensatraffic still epic in winter though :D17:52
nhainesOr maybe fall.  But 2012 should see a standalone one.  :)17:52
pleia2it's right next to the airport17:52
pleia2you don't even go into the city17:52
nhainesThere's never any traffic near LAX.17:52
bkerensapleia2: Cool... :D17:53
* pleia2 should go to LA for real some time17:53
bkerensanhaines: Yeah no traffic I have done LAX so many times17:53
bkerensapleia2: Someday the west coast locos should do some big get together :D17:53
bkerensaCA, WA, OR17:53
akkTraffic *getting to* LAX is epic.17:53
bkerensaakk: Yeah thats what I was saying if you drive from like SF down to LA... Expect epic traffic17:55
pleia2bkerensa: ah, I assumed you'd be flying to LA from where you are17:56
akkThe drive down to LA isn't bad -- it's just the getting-to-LAX part that is.17:56
bkerensapleia2: No way.... I hate planes :D17:57
akkI do the LA drive (to Burbank) waay too often these days -- it's long but not very trafficky.17:57
rwwor, in other words, traffic is fine except I-405 is a hellhole.17:57
akkBut getting down 405 is just crazy, always stop-and-go.17:57
nhainesrww: yesterday the I-5N was at a standstill from Mission Viejo up past Whittier.17:57
nhainesNo idea why, really, but hey, it's only a 35 mile stretch.17:58
akkYeah, I-5 through Orange Co is even worse than 405, or used to be.17:58
bkerensaI used to go down to Long Beach17:58
nhainesakk: they widened the 5, though, so now more cars can not move.17:58
bkerensafrom San Francisco17:58
akkIt's way too narrow for the amount of traffic it has to carry.17:58
rwwnhaines: I never really dealt with that side of LA, thankfully :P17:58
akkah, that's good17:58
nhainesakk: some day they might even finish fixing Beach Blvd. from the construction.  :D17:59
akkI used to go around on 605 or 57, anything to avoid 5 through Orange Co18:00
* bkerensa doesnt comprehend how so many people in locos can afford to jet out to every conference or con18:00
bkerensatoo costly18:00
bkerensaok well what about pass cost thats a couple grand a pop18:01
bkerensaeven if you got a corporate job they arent going to pay for all of them :P18:01
nhainesPass cost?18:01
akkpass cost? You mean the cost of the conference? Not all conferences are big expensive O'Reilly things.18:01
nhainesThat reminds me, I need to request time off for SCaLE10X.18:02
nhainesI've never had my work fight me about them.  Even my Ubuntu Community Week session I was able to just take an early lunch.18:03
bkerensaWell like I know on of the WA loco people has hit like a few cons this year even out of country18:03
bkerensathat gets spendy18:03
sn9i have not gone to OR or WA for a con. much cheaper that way.18:04
nhainesI really wanted to apply for sponsorship for UDS this time around.  :(18:04
bkerensasn9: OSCON is for the win...18:04
akkI can only afford to go to far-away conferences if I'm speaking and getting expenses paid.18:05
akkSome people have employers that pay.18:05
sn9the only time i went to oscon was when it was in CA18:06
pleia2the only expensive conference I've been to was the open source business conference, and I got in free by volunteering at the local user groups table18:06
akkThat was so lovely, having OSCON in SJ. Wish they'd do that again18:06
akkbut I guess people whined about not liking SJ as much as Portland.18:06
nhainesI always get into SCaLE for free.  Used to be for the Ubuntu booth, but now it's for Ubucon and/or speaking.  :D18:06
pleia2mostly I get sponsorships, when I went to Fosscon they paid for part of my hotel and we used B1G1 airline tickets my fiance gets from his credit card to get there, so total trip to philly was under $1000 incl meals18:07
nhainesOh right... I forgot about credit card points!  :D18:07
bkerensaakk: No con should be in SJ.... horrible venue which is why O'Reilly didnt do it their again :D18:07
akkbkerensa: What's wrong with it?18:08
nhainesMy last vacation was minus almost $150 because of that... I should look into that again.18:08
bkerensaakk: Attendance was low and the facilities are far more expensive then Portland18:08
akkI need to get a credit card that does cash back. Mine is lame.18:08
bkerensaUbuntu Cali should roadtrip to OSCON next year18:09
pleia2oscon is far too expensive for me18:09
nhainesI finally got offered an honorarium for speaking this year.  :D18:09
akkAttendance was low? Didn't know that, seemed as busy as most OSCONs.18:09
bkerensapleia2: Even if you got a free pass?18:09
pleia2and limited value career-wise, so I'd need to take vacation time for it (LISA and Ubuntu Dev Summits are ok)18:09
nhainesI'd love to have that more often, but I'd also gladly speak anywhere in the world just for travel and board accomodation.18:09
pleia2bkerensa: time off of work, plus travel and hotel makes it too expensive even if I could get in free18:09
nhaines(let the conferences in the tropics take note)18:09
akkYeah, the travel and time off is expensive.18:10
bkerensapleia2: Make MarkDude take you next year :) he also has some friends up here who let them couchsurf18:10
nhainesYeah, I couldn't afford the time off to go to UDS at this time of year, even if I were sponsored.18:10
pleia2bkerensa: oh, next year is totally impossible, I am already taking too much vacation time18:10
bkerensapleia2: If not we can setup a cot behind the booth?18:10
bkerensapleia2: oh18:10
bkerensaspeak of the devil18:10
* pleia2 is not sure how she'll make 4 weeks of vacation happen with 2 weeks given...18:11
pleia2might have to take some unpaid time off for my honeymoon18:11
pleia2maybe convince my boss that 5 years == 3 weeks of vacation time per year :)18:11
pleia2that at least gets me close18:11
nhainespleia2: claim bereavement leave!18:11
nhainespleia2: because eating ramen on your honeymoon would make you very sad.18:12
pleia2nhaines: mourning my singleness?18:12
pleia2oh, hehe18:12
pleia2fortunately we cashed in some goog stock before the market took a nose dive, so we should be ok as far as wedding and honeymoon expenses themselves18:12
bkerensapleia2: My lady got a $2 an hour raise the other day.... now she just needs to rack up more vacation time then its airbnb time :D18:12
* bkerensa cashed his GOOG shares in way to early in 200518:13
pleia2my fiance works there, so we get more each year18:13
nhainesI need to get into the market during a huge crash.18:13
bkerensapleia2: Oh cool... I got mine during IPO18:14
bkerensapleia2: Very small amount 10 shares18:14
pleia2oh wow, goog is at 50518:14
pleia2we sold last month at 610 (high was about 620)18:15
bkerensaI got like 209 or something per share18:15
bkerensaETF is for the win though... no more stocks18:16
pleia2we did a stock game in high school, early 199918:16
pleia2I liked computers so I invested in all kinds of tech stocks, including yahoo, I made a virtual killing :)18:16
pleia2yahoo split twice during the class, it was crazy18:16
akkheh, funny!18:16
rwwI did Yahoo during my stocks game in high school (in 2005 :P) and made a bunch off it too18:17
rwwwell, "made"18:17
pleia2after looking at my portfolio the teacher had to explain to us that the tech boom was "not normal" :)18:18
akkMy mom's in an investment club, and they held microsoft for years while she constantly tried to talk them into dropping it, but some of them just loved it.18:18
pleia2"you won't actually make 1000% back in normal times18:18
akkShe finally got them to drop it, but it lost a lot during the time they resisted.18:18
pleia2I can imagine18:18
pleia2MS kinda failed at innovation in the 00s18:18
akkAnd in earlier decades too :) but usually they managed to buy other companies to make up the difference.18:19
nhainesI should probably pretend to invest in stocks while I don't have money so I know how to invest once I do.18:19
pleia2there are lots of nifty sites and stuff for tracking it, it's fun :)18:20
akkProbably more fun as a game than when you have real money invested. :)18:20
nhaineshaha, probably true!18:20
pleia2hehe, yeah18:20
akkWith actual money, mostly it's just depressing unless you're in a bubble.18:20
pleia2unless you're winning! ;)18:21
rwwI was on a site for pretending to invest in Bitcoin for a while. I can confirm that was less annoying than reality :P18:21
nhainesING keeps harrassing me about a ShareBuilder account.18:21
nhainesI should've gotten in on the Bitcoin bubble when I first thought about it.18:21
jyonhaines: You mean soon-to-be Capital One? :P18:21
nhainesBecause at 33 USD / bitcoin I would totally have sold.18:21
nhainesjyo: not listening.  :P18:22
bkerensanhaines: I think one could easily have identical ubuntu shirts printed for cheaper than Canonical sells unsure why price is so high18:23
rwwbecause England18:24
pleia2things are more expensive there in general18:24
bkerensaI thought those looters might have looted my shirt18:24
rwwpleia2: yup. plus shipping (assuming they still ship worldwide from Europe)18:25
pleia2yeah, shipping is killer18:25
bkerensaWell the shirts dont even come from Canonical18:25
bkerensaatleast mine didnt18:25
pleia2they use a vendor, but it still ships out of england18:25
bkerensait came from the UK but came from some promo company that I guess Canonical lets handle the stuff18:25
nhainesbkerensa: they come from a third-party fulfillment company and also they make money off of them.18:26
pleia2they had a US vendor for about a year, but eventually shut it down (probably wasn't getting enough business)18:26
nhaines$16 for a t-shirt and $26 for a polo shirt isn't really expensive IMO.18:27
bkerensawell Jono had the shirt sent to me as a thanks which was nice of him :D18:27
bkerensanhaines: Not expensive for a consumer price but for a wholesale it is18:27
nhainesbkerensa: they don't sell wholesale.18:27
bkerensanhaines: I was thinking it would be cheaper for a loco to print their own in the long run18:27
nhainesbkerensa: you said you were unsure why Canonical's retail store prices were so high.18:28
pleia2bkerensa: you have to be careful though, canonical owns the trademark so you can't just go printing plain ubuntu shirts18:28
pleia2they tend to look the other way with loco and event specific ones18:28
jyoDid I miss the boat on the last ubuntu-us-ca t-shirt order?18:28
rwwhaha, LeechBlock is awesome. It's stopped me from going to reddit about 20 times already today :P18:28
pleia2jyo: we haven't found a new vendor yet18:28
bkerensapleia2: True18:28
bkerensapleia2: Well the person who responded to trademark@ubuntu.com said if its not commercial then its good to go18:29
pleia2bkerensa: yeah, if you're just giving them away it's cool18:29
bkerensathey are not for sale18:30
bkerensajust for people who attend stuff18:30
pleia2still, if you did some massive online giveaway they might get annoyed :)18:30
bkerensaI dont see that happening18:30
bkerensatoo expensive18:30
pleia2break over, back to work18:32
philipballewhey! rww, whats up! you got 2 seconds?18:39
rwwphilipballew: sure18:40
philipballewhey! I was curious, as you seemd to know about feeds of blogs or just you showed me what I was doing wrong last night. why my name on http://planet.ubuntu.com/ is not linkable18:41
* philipballew actually bloged but it wasn't there when i wwoke up. 18:42
philipballewif you dont know its cool18:42
rwwPlanet claims "408: request timeout", but I have no idea why it's doing that. I'll look into it in a few minutes.18:43
philipballewoh, its no problem. but do whatever you want. if you understand it better and wanna then thanks :)18:44
rww(the #ubuntu bots started nagging right after you asked)18:45
philipballewfor what channel?18:45
rwwumm, #ubuntu18:46
rwwanyways, sorted. I'll go look more in-depth now.18:46
nhainesI think it might be related to the https link.18:49
rwwI thought that too, but there are other https:// sites on there that work. Worth a try, though.18:49
rwwAlso, on the instructions on PlanetUbuntu that you didn't read:18:49
rww"WordPress.com users: RSS2 feeds have a small problem and atom feeds seem to change time stamp on update, so you need to add ?mrss=off to the end of the RSS2 feed. Example http://blog.site.com/category/ubuntu/feed/?mrss=off"18:49
nhainesNo other wordpress https:// links that I can see, and Firefox tells me it's not encrypted anyway.18:49
philipballewI did read rww18:49
rwwphilipballew: given that you're using Wordpress.com and not using the right URL... :P18:49
nhainesrww: maybe he means he was trying to break Planet.  :P18:50
philipballewi can accsess my link i pasted from my browser :)18:50
rwwphilipballew: and?18:50
philipballewand therefor if i can access my link the server running plannet can to?18:50
rwwbut yeah, I'd change it to http://philipballew.wordpress.com/feed/?mrss=off and see if that helps18:50
rwwphilipballew: PlanetUbuntu is stupid, I wouldn't assume that18:51
philipballewhaha. alright. ill see what that does. what does mrss mean anyway. the instructions were odd18:51
nhainesphilipballew: it works around a bug in Wordpress feeds that break Planet.18:52
rwwI really need to get around to Wordpressifying my website. Maybe I will do that today.18:52
nhainesSpecifically the way Media RSS feeds work (or don't).18:52
nhainesI need to Djangoize mine.18:53
nhainesBut it's not happening today.  :P18:53
philipballewhttps is much netter then http18:53
nhainesphilipballew: under what circumstances?18:53
rwwhttps versus http is completely immaterial for the current scenario.18:53
rwwIf anything, it's a waste of CPU time18:53
nhainesrww: that's what I was thinking.18:53
nhainesOf course, Wordpress seems to be lying about offering SSL-encrypted content via HTTPS RSS feeds, so maybe not.  :)18:54
nhainesOn the other hand, that seems to be breaking Planet.18:54
philipballewnhaines, its much more secure for any browsing you do. rww the cpu power is worth it for the security i get18:54
rwwThat would be relevant at all if anyone cared about people seeing that they go to your blog.18:55
nhainesAnd only if they cared about people seeing the specific page the go to on your blog.18:55
rwwThis is also the reason I don't have HTTPS on my webserver :)18:55
philipballewyou never know who is watching :)18:55
nhainesrww: mine's because I have to pay extra for the certificate and IP address.  :)18:55
nhainesphilipballew: even if someone were watching between Planet Ubuntu and your blog, it wouldn't matter.18:56
rwwnhaines: I use Linode, so the latter's already covered.18:56
nhainesrww: Ah, nice.  :)18:56
philipballewi have https everywhere installed in firefox18:56
philipballewyeah, i just like to take protection for everything18:56
nhainesIt's fine to misuse HTTPS on your own system but it's not always appropriate for intraserver communication.18:58
pleia2yeah, it's actually wordpress.com whose CPU you're using, not so much your own19:01
nhainesWordpress and the Planet Ubuntu backend, too.19:01
regularjoJust wanted to say that Brasero works fine now for copying cds. thanks.19:09
bkerensawow stock market is tanking19:15
rwwagain? lawd.19:16
rwwI continue to be glad I never bought stock.19:16
* rww thinks Google Finance should change their favicon from an upwards-trending graph to a downwards-trending one19:17
DarkwingDuckJust flip the graphic 180*19:31
DarkwingDuckjledbetter: Thanks for the heads up20:00
jledbetterDarkwingDuck: My pleasure :)20:00
DarkwingDuckXD Even if it is on site... I have family in the San Fran area.20:00
bkerensaHP killed WebOS20:01
pleia2code camp?20:02
jledbetterDarkwingDuck: Oh, good :) And, SF area rocks, and whatnot. Not biased or anything ;)20:02
DarkwingDuckpleia2: a Mozilla job.20:02
pleia2ah ok :)20:02
jledbettercode camp!20:02
pleia2they're hiring sysadmins, but they're a redhat/centos shop :(20:02
DarkwingDuckpleia2: Tech Writer :D20:03
DarkwingDuckAlso a couple of community jobs.20:03
DarkwingDuckSpeaking of... Anyone seen Jono?20:03
pleia2not much lately20:03
rwwpleia2: does Wordpress have a changelog or something with a list of fixed CVEs? I'm trying to figure out how exactly out of date Debian/Ubuntu's packages of it are.20:03
pleia2rww: checking20:04
DarkwingDuckrww: Natty?20:04
philipballewi emailed jono 4 weeks ago, has yet to respond20:04
DarkwingDuckrww: Would this help at all? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=wordpress&searchon=names&suite=natty&section=all20:05
rwwDarkwingDuck: no, I already know about Ubuntu and Debian's side of things. I'm wondering about Wordpress's.20:05
rwwphilipballew: jono's email account is a black hole, from what I hear20:06
philipballewhe needs a secretary or something maybe rww20:06
pleia2rww: argh, nothing simple (side note: I hate trac)20:06
rwwpleia2: okays, so there's not something I'm missing. I ended up hitting trac too :(20:06
DarkwingDuckThe SVN repository wouldn't help... would it?20:07
pleia2not unless they check it in with the CVE number20:07
DarkwingDuckNope. :(20:07
rwwpleia2: hrm, maybe the CVE people have something useful20:08
pleia2rww: http://codex.wordpress.org/CVEs but I suspect it's not kept up to date20:08
rwwnope, there are CVEs from 201120:08
pleia2and not all the vulns are published CVEs, they find and fix a lot internally20:08
rwwmeh, screw it. I'll just use the .tar.gz20:09
pleia2so striclty policy-wise, debian doesn't have to fix them but they may exist20:09
pleia2for php webapps I pretty much don't trust packages that ship with distros, it's sad20:09
rwwyeah, I'm really lazy today and didn't want to go outside the package manager, but it seems like that isn't a sane idea20:09
pleia2keeping it updated if you don't want to turn on an ftp server on your system is a pain, but I do it20:10
DarkwingDuckrww: http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/search-results?query=wordpress&search_type=all&cves=on20:10
pleia2upgrades tend to work well, and I do nightly sql backups on my systems anyway20:10
pleia2I think there is a plugin that allows you to easily backup the database before upgrades too20:11
DarkwingDuckrww: Not sure if that is 100% what you are looking for but, it seems to be up to date with CVEs20:15
pleia2a changelog that lists $release fixed CVE-1, CVE-2, blah blah would be optimal20:16
bkerensaI need to help @UbuntuUser out20:32
rwwPSA: Ubuntu Weekly News needs help finding articles and writing summaries and such on a regular basis. If you have a little bit of free time and want to pitch in, #ubuntu-news has all the details :)20:34
jledbetterrww: I did my first summary writing of a few this weekend. Not bad at all!20:34
bkerensapleia2: Can I PM?20:36
pleia2bkerensa: yeah20:37
rwwpleia2: if you don't go the FTPd route, do you have to do the whole "untar new tarball, delete some directories, copy over things from tarball unpack", thing, or is there a third way?20:44
pleia2rww: no third way20:44
rwwpleia2: fun. Does the FTPd need to be world-accessible, or just localhost-accessible?20:44
pleia2rww: just localhost, so it's not so bad20:45
pleia2I am offended by the idea of running an ftp daemon at all ;)20:45
* pleia2 being difficult20:45
rwwyeah, I'm gonna not do that for now and see how it goes20:45
DarkwingDuckAnyone have a sample Community resume?20:47
jyorww: You could just wget latest.tar.gz from a shell.20:49
rwwjyo: yes, I know20:50
rwwoh wow. from the top of a Wordpress documentation site page: "Please, do not edit this Codex Page with the settings for your own server as you are giving the world access to your website's MySQL password, and will not make your install work. Thanks."21:01
rwwPeople are silly :(21:01
jyoDon't use the example security keys for config.php, rww. :P21:03
pleia2rww: lol, wow :)21:05
pleia2rww: prolly the BART webdevs doing that21:07
rwwpleia2: LOL21:07
nhainesrww: bwahaha  :)21:09
rwwoh, nice. none of Wordpress's files are named the same as my existing site's, so I can throw them in the same directory and transition things over instead of breaking things immediately.21:13
rwwhaha, pleia2's on my Wordpress dashboard :P21:17
jyoDon't forget to enable the Hello Dolly plugin!21:17
pleia2rww: incoming link?21:25
rwwpleia2: yup21:25
rwwMArkDude: You wouldn't happen to have that hackergotchi you made me a while back, would you?21:38
MArkDudeI doo21:38
MArkDudeIt is a broken Ubuntu install21:38
* MArkDude is redoing his drive and only keeping 2 Fedora, 1 ubuntu , and one Win7 install21:39
MArkDudeIt is on the Ubuntu I need to kill- I have 50G of media on there- so it is taking a  while to backup21:39
rwwI need Windows 7 for school now, so I have everything apart from it in VirtualBox. Works rather well, but it's a mess from a software freedom POV.21:39
MArkDuderww, I do have it tho- maybe next week- if not sooner21:40
rwwMArkDude: okays, thanks :)21:40
bkerensaMarkDude: You need to ditch the zero (fedora) and get right with the hero (Ubuntu)21:41
rwwBe nice, Fedora is a perfectly good distro. But you should switch to Debian anyway.21:42
MArkDudeSure, once Ubuntu starts paying form my travel expenses, and droppiing $ for release parties.21:42
rwwFedora pays for travel expenses? Screw this, I'm hopping over to RPM :D21:43
MArkDudeUbuntu is great for FOSS in general21:43
MArkDudeFedora makes you feel like one of the Ney York Yankeess21:43
MArkDudeOr at least Darth Vader in those badass ships- sure its evil Empire- but they throw good parties21:44
jyoRHEL are the Yankees and Fedora is their Triple-A affiliate?21:44
bkerensaMarkDude: See how long that lasts21:45
MArkDudeWe still get access to orbiting laser satelite, even if we are AA afiliate21:45
rwwIt's doing pretty well so far, though I had a lot of reservations about Fedora's corporate tie in the past.21:45
bkerensaMarkDude: Yet they shut down free blogs for project members :P21:45
MArkDudeThey always screw up21:45
MArkDudeand will continue to do so21:45
bkerensaAfter redhats ceo's recent statement I'm certain a shakeup will come21:46
MArkDudeBut will always admit mistakes and move on21:46
rwwAs long as they don't mandate a silly UI on Fedora that no other distro is using because the CEO has delusions of design competence... ;)21:46
MArkDudeStay tuned for local developements21:46
nhainesrww: it's called GNOME Shell.21:47
rwwnhaines: "that no other distro is using"21:47
nhainesrww: maybe OpenSuSE uses it now?21:47
philipballewthey do21:47
rwwnhaines: also, Fedora/RedHat work upstream. Ubuntu/Canonical didn't for Unity, and neither making your own upstream nor failing miserably at talking to GNOME properly count.21:47
nhainesUnity *is* an upstream project.  :P21:48
rwwAyatana is ridiculous and I laugh at people that bring it up :P21:48
MArkDudeTalking to Gnome= the sound of one hand clapping, imho21:49
rwwMArkDude: How's Fedora's KDE spin? any experience with it?21:49
nhainesAs far as GNOME is concerned, I think the change from GNOME Shell as pictured in, say, the Official Ubuntu Book for 10.04 LTS and GNOME Shell a month after Unity was announced pretty much speaks for itself.21:49
nhainesAlso Ayatana gave me indicator menus and actionless message notifications and for that I will be forever grateful.21:50
* rww bzr commits, waits to see if he breaks Planet21:50
philipballewdont be like me rww :)21:51
rwwphilipballew: I've seen worse, don't worry. People spamming 10 or so articles to Planet when they first add their blog is /fun/21:51
rwwfollowed by them editing the most recent post to apologize, which then makes /another/ article on Planet21:51
* philipballew should make 100 posts on wp all set to release at the same time21:53
* MArkDude is trying KDE spin soon21:59
MArkDudepart of the reason I am making room on computer21:59
MArkDudeGnome is not quite the Anti-christ that Linus suggests21:59
MArkDudeIt does leave some room for improvements22:00
MArkDudeI am being drawn to kde in general22:00
MArkDudeMy Ubuntu install will be kubuntu22:00
philipballewMArkDude, do you see gnome as better several release cycles later so its usable by your traditional linux user?22:05
MArkDudeWell maybe22:05
MArkDudeI give it 75% likely it can do that22:06
MArkDudeFedora needs to step up and CORRECT flaws in it22:06
MArkDudeand make it more usuable22:06
MArkDudethey are having internal debate over WHO Fedora is designed for22:06
MArkDudedepends on who wins that pissing contest22:07
akkThe age-old UI debate.22:08
pleia2fwiw, canonical did try to work with gnome on the shell, it just went badly, so it was "ok, we'll create a new project" (and yes, unity is upstream, mark confirmed and we consider it as such during membership meetings)22:09
nhainesCome back to me, come back to me, because my land is best.22:09

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