/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/13/#kubuntu-devel.txt

Tm_T	rrrgh, eating, drinking and helping Xine upstream with 1.2 branch ->	00:01
cheguevara	talk about multitasking :P	00:07
steveire	stdin: Yeah it didn't take too long.	00:08
Tm_T	cheguevara: also several support channels I notice	00:10
limac	hey	00:10
Tm_T	I need more hands and time!	00:10
limac	for tomorrow's tutorial, is there going to b any repeat or anything? Like a repeat of the tutorial, 'cause i am goig to miss it since i am going to be at school!	00:14
stdin	limac: there will be logs available	00:14
limac	stdin: what do u mean?	00:14
limac	logs?	00:14
stdin	the session will be logged and you can read those logs at your convenience	00:15
ardchoille	Just read the agenda for Kubuntu Tutorials Day, definitely something I ned to attend :)	00:15
Tm_T	0215.19 <@insanity> karma for Tm_T: -499	00:15
Tm_T	mmmmh	00:15
limac	stdin: whut do u mean the sessions will be logged?	00:15
ardchoille	!logs	00:15
ubotu	Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/	00:15
limac	gotcha!	00:16
Tm_T	stdin: see ^	00:16
limac	ubotu is very helpful!	00:16
limac	!hello	00:16
ubotu	Hi! Welcome to #kubuntu-devel!	00:16
stdin	I think there will be a specific place for the session logs too	00:17
stdin	not just the standard log place	00:17
* Tm_T should clean his mess		00:17
Tm_T	his or her, who knows	00:17
limac	So before going to school, if I join this channel, then I can also go thru everything right!	00:18
limac	???	00:18
ardchoille	limac: You could join and have your client log the convo	00:19
limac	yeah so that'll also work right!	00:19
stdin	limac: there will be logs available even if you don't join. ubuntulog also logs this channel	00:20
limac	wanna but can't skip school, important TEST tom. Counts as 70% of uor grade!	00:20
limac	btw, how can i log the convo?	00:21
stdin	you don't have to	00:22
limac	but how can I do it?	00:22
stdin	depends on your client, most keep logs automatically	00:22
ardchoille	limac: That woold be in the options/config for your irc client	00:22
ardchoille	limac: Which client?	00:22
stdin	konversation keeps them in ~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs	00:22
limac	chatzilla	00:23
limac	wat about chatzilla? :?	00:23
stdin	I don't know, never used it. not sure it can log	00:24
limac	but I can use konversation too,(since i'm using kubuntu)	00:24
limac	thnx	00:24
limac	:)	00:24
limac_	I am on konversation right now	00:25
ardchoille	limac: Check the settings, I know konversation can log	00:25
limac_	wat in settings?	00:26
stdin	settings > configure konversation > logging	00:26
limac_	ok	00:26
limac_	gotcha then?	00:27
stdin	make sure it's enabled	00:27
Tm_T	meh	00:27
limac_	it's enabled	00:28
Tm_T	quiet moment now, build fails and upstream devels gone sleeping	00:28
limac_	so how can I revisit it	00:28
limac_	?	00:28
stdin	see the directory it says? logs are in there	00:28
limac_	ok hold on a sec let me see! :)	00:29
limac_	:)	00:29
limac_	where is that directory: /home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs	00:31
stdin	that's exactly where is it	00:32
stdin	open that in konqueror or dolphin	00:32
limac_	did that!!!	00:33
limac_	proceed	00:34
stdin	look at what's in there	00:34
limac_	says : Home folder, storage media, network folders, trash, apps	00:36
ardchoille	limac: When you go to /home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs in konqueror, what do you see in that dir?	00:36
limac_	how can i go to taht dir?	00:36
ardchoille	open konqueror, type that path into the location bar	00:37
ardchoille	/home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs is a path	00:37
limac_	hold on	00:38
limac_	thnx dude, i got it now!! :)	00:38
ardchoille	:)	00:38
Tm_T	DaSkreech: howdy	00:39
DaSkreech	Hey Tm_T	00:40
limac_	and can u guys tell me wat languages i need to no, in order to be a devel?	00:40
Tm_T	limac_: english is recommended	00:41
DaSkreech	limac_: ones that instruct the computer	00:41
ardchoille	limac: There are several.. I am currently learning python, but there are C, C++, perl, ruby, etc	00:41
limac	I mean like computer language? :) ilive in the US	00:41
limac	I only know c/c++	00:41
DaSkreech	limac: English is still recommended	00:41
Tm_T	limac_: those are just fine :)	00:41
* DaSkreech ducks		00:41
limac	and wat about qt?	00:42
cheguevara	its not a language	00:42
cheguevara	its a framework	00:42
limac	ah!	00:42
cheguevara	for C++	00:42
stdin	and python	00:42
limac	ok!! :D	00:42
ardchoille	limac: I'll be using that to write apps in pyqt	00:42
limac	so i'll learn python too!	00:43
limac	cool	00:43
limac	:)	00:43
* cheguevara only knows php		00:43
DaSkreech	Python is pretty easy to learn	00:43
cheguevara	too bad php is not really helpful to kubuntu heh	00:44
cheguevara	well there's php-qt	00:45
limac	python is the easiest of all langs, i started learning it but it was capable of getting me bored soon enough and i gave up!!!! :/	00:45
limac_	./join kubuntu-motu	00:46
limac_	./join #kubuntu-motu	00:46
Tm_T	remove dot	00:46
Tm_T	and k	00:47
limac_	oops	00:47
Tm_T	IIRC	00:47
limac_	btw is there any channel such as "kubuntu-motu"?	00:48
ardchoille	limac: Kubuntu uses Ubuntu repos	00:49
ScottK	limac_: No. We do that stuff here or in #ubuntu-motu	00:49
limac	ah!	00:49
limac	hihih	00:49
limac	but they all deb repos! hihihi :)	00:50
DaSkreech	limac	00:55
DaSkreech	You probably need better a grasp of OO thinking :)	00:55
DaSkreech	limac: it's the same repos	00:55
limac	whats OO thinking?	00:56
limac	i no just kidding around!	00:56
DaSkreech	Open XML :)	00:56
Tm_T	you no?	00:56
limac	and does anyone know how I can change my boot order for a win 98 machine. says all wierd stuff like "A,C,SCSI", in the BIOS, and can't figure out which is what, plud what's the PU button?	00:57
DaSkreech	It's a smelly button	00:57
limac	what?	00:58
* DaSkreech holds nose		00:59
DaSkreech	PU	00:59
yuriy	anything of interest from the meeting?	01:09
ardchoille	yuriy: Two new kubuntu members	01:11
ardchoille	Tm_T and ardchoille	01:12
Tm_T	also nixternal shocked once again \o/	01:12
nixternal	shh	01:13
nixternal	I am learning DHTML right now :)	01:14
Tm_T	s/shocked/been\ shocked/	01:14
yuriy	congrats Tm_T	01:14
yuriy	who's ardchoille?	01:14
ardchoille	I am :)	01:15
limac	i am not!	01:15
ardchoille	yuriy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ardchoille2	01:15
Tm_T	yuriy: danke	01:15
yuriy	ardchoille: well congrats to you too	01:16
ardchoille	ty :)	01:16
limac	man my feisty cd on my win98 machine is spurting out defects!	01:16
nixternal	limac] man my feisty cd on my win98 machine is spurting out defects!	01:16
nixternal	hahahahahah! you seriously made me LOL in the middle of class with that one :)	01:17
ardchoille	hehe	01:17
DaSkreech	What's up with PDF?	01:46
DaSkreech	I hear there is a new backend being created?	01:47
limac	hey	01:55
Tm_T	hey hey	01:56
limac	my friend has a problem, he wants to view this page: http://www.anandabazar.com/, but its showing all wierd language(an alien languge) not the languag, they call Bengali	01:57
no0tic	hey hey hey	01:57
DaSkreech	hey hey hey	01:57
limac	hey hey hey hey	01:57
DaSkreech	+ hey!	01:57
DaSkreech	dang >-<	01:58
no0tic	while(0) print hey	01:58
DaSkreech	I'm out of date :(	01:58
limac	is there like a "say hey as many times as u can cometition going on"?	01:58
no0tic	uhm... while(1) say hey	01:58
Tm_T	limac: you know this is not support channel, right?	01:58
limac	yup!	01:59
limac	i no	01:59
limac	hihihih	01:59
cheguevara	i think latest policykit update broke mounting again	02:00
limac	kubuntu is way better than ubuntu, just my opinion. more stable i mean!	02:01
cheguevara	either that or vista b0rked my ntfs partition	02:01
ardchoille	no comment :P	02:02
cheguevara	hey i need to play games once in a while	02:03
cheguevara	i swear i don't use it for nothign else :P	02:04
limac	anyone tried gparted here? it's the best!	02:04
limac	again, also my opinion^	02:04
cheguevara	gparted has fucked up so many partition layouts for me	02:05
ardchoille	cheguevara: Please watch the language	02:05
cheguevara	sorry	02:06
DaSkreech	qtparted IS dead right?	02:16
DaSkreech	with Partition magic?	02:16
Tm_T	umm, what?	02:17
cheguevara	yeah both are dead if thats what u mean	02:17
DaSkreech	Well I know Partition magic is dead	02:18
DaSkreech	ok just checking	02:18
Tm_T	hrrr	02:18
cheguevara	http://qtparted.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/qtparted/	02:19
cheguevara	or may be not	02:20
Tm_T	:p	02:20
cheguevara	they are porting to QT 4	02:20
DaSkreech	cheguevara: Who is they?	02:21
DaSkreech	Same people or fork?	02:21
cheguevara	ark linux ppl	02:22
Tm_T	hey now, no need to cursing	02:23
DaSkreech	ok	02:23
istarex	Will there be transcripts available for the kubuntu tutorial day sessions being held tomorrow?	03:16
cheguevara	yes	03:16
istarex	Will they be linked off the tutorial day wiki page?	03:18
yuriy	just made this for the last slide of a presentation :D http://www.yktech.us/temp/holidaykonqi.png	04:37
aRyn	has the Developer Meeting been in this channel for everyone?	05:05
ScottK	No. It was in #ubuntu-meeting.	05:07
=== aRyn_ is now known as aRyn
Tm_T	yup	05:07
aRyn	sry, what did you say?	05:11
ardchoille	< ScottK> No. It was in #ubuntu-meeting.	05:11
ardchoille	< Tm_T> yup	05:11
Tm_T	ardchoille: I bet that was important line =)	05:11
ardchoille	Just wanted to catch everything :)	05:12
ardchoille	But looking at the timestamps, he got that last line	05:12
Tm_T	heh	05:12
aRyn	sry, I had a disconnec,t could you plz resend me the messages after mine?	05:12
aRyn	!logs	05:13
ubotu	Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/	05:13
Tm_T	aRyn: done	05:13
ardchoille	aRyn: I did	05:13
aRyn	hm	05:13
ardchoille	There were only two lines	05:13
aRyn	thx	05:13
aRyn	^^	05:13
aRyn	o thx, i jsut wanted to ask for the logs :D	05:14
aRyn	hm, lol, shit, on the website is this channel written -.-	05:14
aRyn	now it took place in another one	05:14
aRyn	hm	05:15
aRyn	thought it would be here	05:15
aRyn	damn	05:15
aRyn	and what's about the tut day?	05:15
ardchoille	Please watch the language	05:15
ardchoille	@schedule	05:15
ubotu	Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development \| 18 Dec 15:00: Server Team meeting \| 20 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development	05:15
aRyn	yeah, on the website is written: where? #kubuntu-devel	05:16
aRyn	but it wasn't here...	05:16
ardchoille	This one? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay	05:17
aRyn	ardchoille: what did you mean with "You did"? and Tm_T: what did you mean with "done"?	05:17
aRyn	ardchoille: yes	05:17
aRyn	oehm	05:17
aRyn	and the topic	05:17
ardchoille	aRyn: You asked us to repeat what was said when you were out and "we did"	05:18
aRyn	lol, ok, because I already said thx	05:18
aRyn	maybe it was a biiig laag	05:18
aRyn	^^	05:18
ardchoille	I'm just responding to * aRyn* ardchoille: what did you mean with "You did"? and Tm_T: what did you mean with "done"?	05:18
aRyn	yes, me2	05:19
aRyn	when will be the next developer meeting?	05:24
aRyn	and what is 'LoCo'?	05:25
Tm_T	Local Community	05:25
aRyn	Tm_T: could you plz tell me the Topic in #ubuntu-meeting like ~5h before the meeting started?	05:28
aRyn	can't find it	05:28
ardchoille	aRyn: Does this help? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event	05:29
aRyn	yea, kind if	05:30
aRyn	of	05:30
aRyn	I'm a little bit pissed of right now, i must say, i was looking forward to participating on my first developer-meeting and now that...	05:31
aRyn	uff	05:31
aRyn	in*	05:32
ardchoille	aRyn: You can add that calendar to your korganizer calendar, you know?	05:33
aRyn	yea, i did that already for todays meeting...but LOL if it tells me the wrong place, that's ofr nothing...	05:33
ardchoille	aRyn: Clickin on an event in the calendar tells you which channel it's in	05:34
aRyn	but i put that event in by hand, you mean I can add the whole calendar in korganizer?	05:34
aRyn	and how to go?	05:35
ardchoille	aRyn: For instance, the Kubuntu/Ubuntu meeting today, the event says it's in #ubuntu-meeting	05:35
ardchoille	aRyn: Ah, ok. on that web page, there is a small icon at the bottom, looks like a calendar.. click it	05:35
ardchoille	Choose Save as.., then save it. Then open korganizer and add it as a calcendar	05:36
aRyn	did this meeting also took place at the LoCos? ANd maybe got translated automatically in their native languages or are that completely different channels?	05:47
aRyn	@schedule	05:50
ubotu	Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development \| 18 Dec 15:00: Server Team meeting \| 20 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development	05:50
aRyn	hm, what's about the today's meeting?	05:51
aRyn	it's missing	05:51
aRyn	already updated?^^	05:55
ardchoille	aRyn: It must have been updated already because today's meeting was there earlier	05:56
=== Shely is now known as Schneeflocke
aRyn	[20:00] <ardchoille> I have a habit of being somewhere other than where I wanted to be, lol	06:03
aRyn	rofl :)	06:04
Tm_T	aRyn: btw do you have wiki or LP page?	06:04
aRyn	?	06:04
Tm_T	wiki.ubuntu.com and launchpad.net	06:06
aRyn	hm, sry, I don't get the question, what's wiht those pages?	06:07
Tm_T	aRyn: page describing you and your doing	06:07
Tm_T	https://launchpad.net/~tmt	06:07
Tm_T	for example	06:07
aRyn	to answer ur question: I had the wiki page, not so the LP page	06:09
aRyn	(if that was ur question.... ^^)	06:09
Tm_T	yes	06:10
aRyn	thx for it	06:10
Tm_T	and if you do have, I'm interested to see	06:10
Tm_T	aRyn: ...and answer says it all ;)	06:11
aRyn	~~	06:12
aRyn	btw where can the mailing list be found?	06:13
Tm_T	lists.ubuntu.com should have them all	06:14
aRyn	kk	06:14
aRyn	how often are these meetings in common? once a week? after 2 weeks?	06:15
Tm_T	depends	06:15
Tm_T	sometimes its needed more often, but I assume not month long gaps	06:16
aRyn	especially kubuntu ones	06:17
aRyn	like today	06:17
Tm_T	well thats what I meant	06:17
aRyn	(or yesterday, depens on ur zones^^)	06:17
aRyn	ok, but main thing is: they are no "rare thing", so that it would be very annoying to miss one (like me today...) ?	06:19
Tm_T	you didn't really miss anything	06:20
aRyn	yea, to read not, but to take part in :) but it's okay, thanks anyway ^^	06:24
aRyn	especially after rc2	06:27
Tm_T	aRyn: btw if you really care about my client versions etc, you can always ask, it's more polite way always	06:35
mhb	have a nice tutorial day!	06:46
nareshov	Two days to merge! yay!	06:55
=== Iceslide is now known as Ice\|away
dholbach	good morning	07:42
=== Shely is now known as iSchnee
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
Tm_T	hi \sh	08:29
\sh	moins Tm_T	08:30
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== reydan is now known as Reydan
* nareshov is away: Gone away for now.		08:52
=== czessi_ is now known as Czessi
raphink	hop	09:01
raphink	:)	09:02
Riddell	skip	09:05
Riddell	nareshov: gonnae no use public away	09:05
ardchoille	Riddell: Are you Scottish?	09:05
Riddell	ardchoille: that I am	09:05
elisiano	ardchoille: how do u get that hostname?	09:06
ardchoille	Most people wouldn't have picked up on the "Iain vs Ian" earlier	09:06
elisiano	Riddell: I wish I were you.... not for coding, for whiskey	09:06
elisiano	:D	09:06
ardchoille	elisiano: I became an Ubuntu member today	09:06
Riddell	ahem, elisiano clearly isn't Scottish	09:06
Tm_T	ardchoille: I got uglier cloak!	09:06
elisiano	of course I'm not :D	09:06
elisiano	but I'd like to	09:07
Riddell	elisiano: you must be thinking of whisky	09:07
Riddell	any other spelling is blasphemy	09:07
ardchoille	Tm_T: You're above me in the food chain, lol	09:07
Tm_T	haha	09:07
elisiano	yeah correction: s/whiskey/whisky/	09:07
elisiano	:D	09:07
elisiano	is that ok? :)	09:07
Riddell	perfect	09:07
elisiano	may I have a glass now?	09:07
* Riddell pours finest single cask		09:08
* Tm_T gives a glass of milk to elisiano		09:08
jussio1	hmmm... so this is what the devs do all day... Whisky!!!	09:08
ardchoille	elisiano: "Anythin' nae Scottish is crrrrrap"	09:08
Tm_T	Riddell: thanks, I needed that	09:08
* Tm_T uses whisky to polish her new helmet		09:08
ardchoille	jussio1: Now you see why I joined? :P	09:08
elisiano	Tm_T: I like milk as well, but you know, it's not a morning thing... whisky is	09:08
jussio1	ardchoille: hehehe...nice	09:09
* Tm_T drinks only water, coffee and tea		09:09
Tm_T	and water	09:09
Tm_T	oh, and orange juice today	09:10
ardchoille	elisiano: Let me get you a link..	09:10
jussio1	Tm_T: you arent a true Finn then... tru Finns only drink coffee, beer and Vodka!	09:10
jussio1	:P	09:10
ardchoille	elisiano: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewMemberHowto	09:11
Tm_T	jussio1: yup, I don't like alcohol	09:11
Tm_T	jussio1: my head is a mess already =)	09:11
jussio1	!member	09:11
ubotu	Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember	09:11
ardchoille	elisiano: You have to show sustained support. I wasn't sure mine would qualify, but I had some fans in the meeting :)	09:12
elisiano	lol	09:12
elisiano	I heard also of "unaffiliated" hostname	09:12
elisiano	and u get that by just bugging the staff	09:12
ardchoille	elisiano: yes, anyone can get that cloak.. talk to a freenode staffer	09:12
elisiano	yeah, which is who? :)	09:13
jussio1	nalioth	09:13
ardchoille	elisiano: you can list them with /stats p	09:13
ardchoille	Not sure if that is reliable, tho	09:13
elisiano	thanks	09:13
jussio1	elisiano: just /join #freenode	09:13
elisiano	that's nice, no staff atm	09:14
elisiano	anyway not a issue, just wondering how... thanks	09:15
jussio1	:D	09:15
ardchoille	Hmm.. chomping at the bit here for the Kubuntu tutorials Day. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th sessions already have my attention	09:16
* elisiano yawns		09:18
wolfger	is it time for the tutorials yet? ;-)	10:09
Riddell	spose I should think of something to say :)	10:14
Riddell	holy guacamole, over 100 people in here, up from 60 when I announced tutorials day	10:16
dholbach	yoohooo! :)	10:17
ardchoille	How do I set up my @ubuntu.com email address ?	10:32
elisiano	from what I read it should be automagically	10:33
elisiano	it should be an alias to the email with which u created your launchpad account	10:33
elisiano	ardchoille:	10:34
elisiano	Membership entitles you to the following benefits: An @ubuntu.com e-mail alias that forwards to your real e-mail - the email-address will be set up automatically and will be based on your main Launchpad ID: [MAILTO] your_launchpad_id@ubuntu.com. All email arriving at said address will be forwarded to the primary email address listed for your profile in Launchpad. You can test if it is active by sending	10:35
elisiano	yourself some mail, from time to time.	10:35
ardchoille	elisiano: That's what I thought too	10:36
elisiano	I'm not thinking it :D https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewMemberHowto	10:36
jussio1	ardchoille: is yours not working?	10:39
ardchoille	jussio1: It's not working	10:39
jussio1	ardchoille: is it a gmail account?	10:39
ardchoille	jussio1: yes	10:39
Riddell	ardchoille: give it some time	10:40
jussio1	ardchoille: ahh, kk.. there were some issues with gmail	10:40
jussio1	IIRC	10:40
Riddell	the mail server only sync occationally to launchpad	10:40
ardchoille	Riddell: I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean I can only receive emial @ubuntu.com certain times of the day? Because gmail is sending back Failure notices immediately.	10:42
elisiano	I think he means that it's not synced every second :D	10:43
elisiano	ardchoille: how long have you been a member?	10:43
ardchoille	elisiano: Just few hours	10:43
elisiano	I think that your email alias hasn't been set up yet	10:44
ardchoille	Ok, I'll give it a day or two.	10:44
elisiano	that's too bad because email@ubuntu.com r0x a lot	10:44
elisiano	:D	10:44
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
ardchoille	:)	10:45
elisiano	Riddell: may I ask you a personal question: do you code for work or in your spare time?	10:46
Riddell	elisiano: both	10:46
* jussio1 sends Riddell a virtual Whisky for being awesome!		10:47
Riddell	I'll save that until after the tutorials :)	10:48
jussio1	:D	10:48
ardchoille	hehe	10:48
Tm_T	mmmgh	10:48
jussio1	hmmm, what time is it utc now?	10:49
jussio1	@now utc	10:49
ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: December 13 2007, 10:49:08 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 3 hours 10 minutes	10:49
jussio1	k then :D	10:49
jussio1	so...4 hours to tutorials!! yay	10:49
Tm_T	mmmgh	10:49
* jussio1 is getting excited...		10:49
* ardchoille is too		10:50
jussio1	Tm_T: did someone gag you?	10:50
Tm_T	jussio1: no, I'm just bit suffering here	10:50
jussio1	Tm_T: how so?	10:50
Tm_T	nerves in my right arm/shoulder causing pains and losing powers	10:51
Tm_T	prolly from spine originating	10:51
jussio1	ouch...	10:51
Tm_T	pretty much normal day, no, better than normal still :p	10:52
elisiano	@now gmt+1	10:53
ardchoille	Why do people like Linux_Galore sit in #kubuntu and act disrespectful and childish?	10:53
elisiano	@now Europe/Rome	10:53
ubotu	Current time in Europe/Rome: December 13 2007, 11:53:41 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 3 hours 6 minutes	10:53
ardchoille	It's quite annoying. I wish I were an op in #kubuntu	10:53
Tm_T	ardchoille: if so, do !ops	10:53
Tm_T	ardchoille: warned, next will be going	10:55
ardchoille	Tm_T: Then he'll be going soon :)	10:55
Tm_T	apparently	10:56
ardchoille	Tm_T: Thank you, btw	10:56
* jussio1 sighs		10:56
Tm_T	np, sorry I wasnt there earlier	10:56
ardchoille	np	10:56
Tm_T	ardchoille: duty, not privilege ;)	10:56
jussio1	hehe	10:57
Riddell	ardchoille: becoming an op isn't hard	10:57
ardchoille	Riddell: How do I apply?	10:57
Riddell	ardchoille: ask me nicely	10:58
Riddell	question is if I can remember how to do it	10:59
ardchoille	Riddell: May I please be made an oper in #kubuntu? I promise I will do my best.	10:59
jussio1	ardchoille: which timezone are you in?	10:59
Riddell	ardchoille: that should be it	11:00
ardchoille	Riddell: And may I say you are one of the most awesome people I have met? :)	11:00
ardchoille	Riddell: Thank you so very much.	11:00
ardchoille	jussio1: Uhm, not sure. Seattle, WA. I think it's PST	11:00
Riddell	ardchoille: why thank you	11:00
* jussio1 sighs - I often wish I could also help out there - there are often things that happen in the morning my tim (gmt +2) and Tm_T is not around... actually nobody seems to be around in the mornings.		11:01
Tm_T	jussio1: I'm often around there except few last weeks	11:02
ardchoille	jussio1: I spend a lot of time in there.. my friends say "too much time"	11:02
Tm_T	ardchoille: what is too much?	11:02
jussio1	Tm_T: yeah... maybe thats why Ive noticed it	11:02
ardchoille	Tm_T: That was my response :)	11:02
mikkael	/usr/lib/kde4/bin/startkde needs to have "export KDEHOME=~/.kde4" too, else it will not log in. talking about hardy, dont know how things in gutsy are at the moment	11:02
jussio1	ardchoille: there is no such thing as too much	11:02
Tm_T	jussio1: also Jucato has been away	11:02
mikkael	but finally kde4 working .D	11:03
jussio1	Tm_T: yeah. We could do with a few more ops though, so having ardchoille is good.	11:04
Tm_T	agreed there	11:04
jussio1	Riddell: Im happy to help also if you would like the help. ( I am OP in #ubuntustudio currently)	11:04
Tm_T	Riddell: /msg chanserv access channel mask level	11:05
Tm_T	whops	11:05
Tm_T	Riddell: /msg chanserv access channel ADD mask level	11:06
xRaich[o]2x	Hi. the kde4 packages are awesome. is someone working on kmail akregator and kwalletmanager packages? i'd like to test them.	11:06
Riddell	jussio1: voila	11:11
Tm_T	:)	11:11
jussio1	Riddell: thank you muchly!	11:11
Tm_T	Riddell: you might like to add rights to me here, so I don't need poke you guys when needed :)	11:14
stdin	woah, ardchoille has a access level of 29?	11:20
Tm_T	heh	11:20
Tm_T	right to the top	11:20
ardchoille	My friends always told me I was special :)	11:21
Tm_T	you are, you are!	11:21
Tm_T	ardchoille: thats why you have your own league!	11:21
ardchoille	hehe	11:21
Riddell	29 is the same as 20	11:22
Tm_T	heh	11:22
Riddell	Tm_T: there you go	11:22
Tm_T	thanks sir	11:23
Tm_T	readded me to #kubuntu I notice	11:23
Tm_T	I had #kubuntu-devel in mind, sorta :p	11:24
Riddell	comme ca	11:24
Tm_T	oh well, I don't complain :)	11:24
Tm_T	heh	11:24
stdin	Riddell: well 25+ lets you use SET	11:24
Tm_T	reminds me of something I did	11:24
Tm_T	better left forgotten	11:24
stdin	Riddell: heh, looks like I got a few build failure emails last night	11:27
Tm_T	stdin: mails from lover that is	11:28
stdin	Tm_T: not unless Launchpad Buildd System loves me :p	11:28
ardchoille	lol	11:29
Tm_T	stdin: that's what I said	11:30
stdin	if it loves me, why does it not want to build my packages? :(	11:31
Tm_T	more time with you?	11:31
stdin	or it's just playing hard-to-get	11:31
wolfger	it thinks you're too good for those packages	11:31
stdin	it should respect my wishes, if you love someone, you must let them build their own packages :p	11:32
wolfger	Launchpad knows what's best for you, and is only trying to protect you	11:33
* wolfger sighs... when will I be able to install KDE4 on Kubuntu Hardy?		11:34
Tm_T	stdin: don't even think of using other build services! I know you're not a cheater type!	11:34
stdin	wolfger: Launchpad knows what's best for you, and is only trying to protect you :>	11:34
Tm_T	wolfger: when you compile it from svn, would be smartypants answer	11:34
wolfger	lol	11:34
stdin	Tm_T: there's only one build system for me, even though it's a but proprietary :)	11:35
Tm_T	wolfger: thus said, I build daily or so	11:35
wolfger	well I'm hoping I'll have a clue what svn is by the end of tutorials today	11:35
Tm_T	stdin: hih	11:35
stdin	!svn	11:35
ubotu	svn is Subversion: an open-source revision control system, which aims to be a compelling replacement for CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/	11:35
stdin	now that's some lag...	11:35
Tm_T	wolfger: it's that magical place where KDE sources lives until our loving developers blows 'em alive!	11:35
wolfger	rofl	11:36
wolfger	ok, so when did Subversion start being abbreviated? Or am I just a clueless git?	11:36
Tm_T	wolfger: all svn urls are, well, svn	11:37
stdin	wolfger: no git is another form of reversion control :p	11:37
ardchoille	hehe	11:38
wolfger	:-P	11:38
wolfger	ok... still no KDE4, still no mplayer... I'm getting out of Hardy and back into Gutsy. BRB	11:38
Tm_T	noooooo	11:39
wolfger	no?	11:39
Tm_T	no giving up, son	11:40
wolfger	feh. I want a fully usable computer for my day off from work. I'll be back to Hardy soon enough.	11:42
wolfger	or, if not fully usable, I need to be able to play with KDE4 :-)	11:42
stdin	wolfger: so get the liveCD :)	11:42
wolfger	planning on it	11:43
Hobbsee	hey all	11:44
stdin	hey Hobbsee :)	11:45
Riddell	Hobbsee: could you up the priority of kdepimlibs/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu3	11:49
sebastian^	moin folks :)	12:00
stdin	T=-2:59	12:00
stdin	(until the tutorials that is)	12:01
Tm_T	hm	12:01
Tm_T	I'm leaving in one hour	12:01
sebastian^	hmm is anyone here using the cisco network assistant?	12:02
=== thomme__ is now known as thomme
* txwikinger2 gets a panic... only 2:50 left ?		12:10
txwikinger2	just kidding :)	12:10
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
jpatrick	Riddell: I'll be here ;)	12:21
Hobbsee	was there anything interesting in the meeting?	12:22
ardchoille	Hobbsee: Two new members	12:22
Hobbsee	ah yes, saw them	12:22
jpatrick	wow, 129 nicks	12:23
jpatrick	beats our average of ~60	12:23
jpatrick	let's make stay like that ;)	12:23
wolfger	you mean we have to keep coming back after tutorials are over? ;-)	12:24
* jussio1 goes and add #kubuntu-devel to his login list...		12:24
stdin	Hobbsee: it was a sort meeting with nothing on the agenda, so nothing happened except membership approval	12:24
Hobbsee	ah right	12:25
txwikinger2	jpatrick: deduct 1, I am here twice :P	12:25
* Hobbsee is here twice.		12:26
Tm_T	hmmmmmm	12:26
Tm_T	noone knows how many I am	12:26
Tm_T	nor me	12:27
jussio1	Tm_T: is your shoulder still hurting?	12:27
Tm_T	yup	12:27
Tm_T	and my head too soon	12:27
Tm_T	mmmgh, fail to do reasonable patch for fixing my kickoff tree	12:27
* txwikinger2 needs to finish some stuff to leave work early		12:28
elisiano	Tm_T: Riddell has a patch for your problem (Whisky :D)	12:38
ardchoille	That's a patch for any problem	12:38
elisiano	lol	12:38
elisiano	:D	12:38
Tm_T	elisiano: nope, it's not a patch, my helmet is polished already	12:38
elisiano	I need fixing too	12:39
* Tm_T doesn't use alcohol for getting drunk or any		12:39
addikt1ve	hi :)	12:39
Tm_T	addikt1ve: hi	12:39
addikt1ve	meven, je suis là :p	12:39
elisiano	Tm_T: why wouldn't u?	12:39
addikt1ve	hi Tm_T	12:39
Tm_T	elisiano: why shoyld I? ;)	12:39
Tm_T	see! cant type a thing :(	12:39
elisiano	because... it's fun! and I like it	12:39
wolfger	Tm_T: then what do you use for getting drunk? ;-)	12:40
Tm_T	I don't like it	12:40
Tm_T	wolfger: none	12:40
Tm_T	wolfger: I'm just, well, me	12:40
elisiano	u don't drink because u don't like it or because you don't like being drunk?	12:40
wolfger	that's a good way to be	12:40
Tm_T	elisiano: don't like being drunk, nor need be	12:41
Tm_T	I do enjoy some tastes, but nah, I can live without em	12:41
elisiano	u don't have necessarily to go that bad, tipsy would be a good start :D	12:41
jussio1	Tm_T: gets drunk on linux :D	12:42
Tm_T	elisiano: nah, don't need it either	12:42
Tm_T	elisiano: trust me, I have seen drunken people enough	12:42
Tm_T	and results of it	12:42
Serega	heya	12:42
elisiano	Tm_T: your choice, but i still like it	12:42
addikt1ve	Tm_T, being drunk sux ur right :/	12:42
elisiano	;)	12:42
Tm_T	elisiano: yup, feel free, I'm not stopping you :)	12:42
addikt1ve	elisiano, yep, but not totally drunk	12:43
elisiano	right, not totally	12:43
Tm_T	in my age, it's time to keep the little pieces of life together	12:43
elisiano	how old are you Tm_T ?	12:43
elisiano	if I may ask	12:43
Tm_T	112 years	12:43
Tm_T	and counting	12:43
elisiano	lol	12:43
addikt1ve	Tm_T, are you sure you're not drunk now :D ?	12:44
Tm_T	addikt1ve: yes	12:44
jussio1	Tm_T: cmon... stop lying about your age... you are 137... :P	12:44
addikt1ve	xD	12:44
Tm_T	jussio1: mmgh	12:44
elisiano	seriously, how old?	12:44
addikt1ve	Tm_T, i guess he wont say	12:44
addikt1ve	^^	12:44
Tm_T	seriously	12:44
elisiano	yeah but maybe he's younger than me	12:45
elisiano	:D	12:45
addikt1ve	:D	12:45
addikt1ve	how old are u?	12:45
elisiano	27	12:45
addikt1ve	k :)	12:45
elisiano	@now Europe/Rome	12:45
ubotu	Current time in Europe/Rome: December 13 2007, 13:45:44 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 1 hour 14 minutes	12:45
elisiano	wow 1 hour	12:45
elisiano	and the magic begins	12:45
elisiano	:D	12:45
addikt1ve	which country are you living in, elisiano :) ?	12:46
elisiano	lol	12:46
elisiano	guess	12:46
elisiano	did I write Europe/Paris or Europe/Rome? :))	12:46
addikt1ve	lol :p Rome	12:46
addikt1ve	ok	12:46
addikt1ve	@now Europe/Paris	12:47
ubotu	Current time in Europe/Paris: December 13 2007, 13:47:12 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 1 hour 12 minutes	12:47
addikt1ve	\o/	12:47
elisiano	o7	12:47
addikt1ve	^^	12:47
addikt1ve	hai2u karl	12:47
karl	yep	12:48
karl	a bit addictive?	12:48
Tm_T	nixternal: aye, I'm bit off but if possible, I'll try come by for few seconds to help (can't promise much)	12:48
addikt1ve	here you are :)	12:48
Serega	@now Europe/Kyiv	12:48
Serega	:(	12:48
addikt1ve	owned :p	12:48
addikt1ve	hey guys i have a question	12:49
addikt1ve	when dev team guys'll be here	12:49
addikt1ve	we will lost voice isnt it?	12:49
addikt1ve	or will the discussions be open	12:49
Tm_T	by needs	12:49
karl	is this the place to be for pykde4?	12:50
Tm_T	it discussion is on time and on topic, can't see reason why to moderate hard	12:50
Hobbsee	i have no idea	12:50
karl	this afternoon?	12:50
Tm_T	Hobbsee: good to see you too :)	12:50
Hobbsee	:)	12:50
Hobbsee	where's Riddell?	12:50
Tm_T	Hobbsee: washing his teeth and cone his hair, you know it's showtime!	12:51
=== abner\|away is now known as birunko
Tm_T	almost rhymed	12:51
Tm_T	ok, I'm off, kids, remember, patience is a virtue	12:51
Tm_T	and have fun	12:51
Tm_T	->	12:51
addikt1ve	baibai Tm_T	12:51
wolfger	1 hour? Not by my clock...	12:52
wolfger	2 hours	12:52
addikt1ve	wolfger, UTC	12:52
wolfger	or did teh intertubes calculate UTC-EST incorrectly?	12:52
wolfger	1500 UTC, right?	12:52
addikt1ve	yep	12:53
wolfger	should be 1000 here	12:53
addikt1ve	it's 16h00 CET	12:53
addikt1ve	in UTC the "show" starts in 1h	12:53
addikt1ve	in CET it starts in 2h	12:53
addikt1ve	erf in fact	12:54
addikt1ve	FUCK	12:54
addikt1ve	i cant explain	12:54
addikt1ve	xD	12:54
stdin	!language > addikt1ve	12:54
addikt1ve	sry	12:54
wolfger	current UTC is 12:53	12:54
wolfger	2 hours to the show	12:54
wolfger	unless you're saying worldtimeserver.com is wrong	12:54
addikt1ve	current CET is 13:54	12:54
addikt1ve	2h to the show	12:54
wolfger	k	12:54
addikt1ve	thx :p you explained it quite good	12:54
wolfger	lol	12:55
wolfger	I think anybody listening is now confused beyond belief	12:55
wolfger	at least.. I was	12:55
addikt1ve	XD	12:55
addikt1ve	we are the win	12:55
addikt1ve	erf i cant spell it bad >< t eh win	12:56
wolfger	but you're lucky if you find 1 in 1,000 people who know what the hell UTC is in the USA	12:56
Hobbsee	well, that's the USA for you	12:56
Hobbsee	they tend not to even know where australia is.	12:56
wolfger	somewhere down South	12:57
wolfger	:-P	12:57
igknighted	i refuse to believe that... we love our kangaroos	12:57
igknighted	:P	12:57
addikt1ve	XD	12:57
* Hobbsee looks		12:57
Hobbsee	2 hours	12:57
addikt1ve	kangaroos rock	12:57
addikt1ve	yep, 2h.	12:57
igknighted	is there a list of packages we should have installed for this?	12:58
=== addikt1ve is now known as AddiKT1ve
AddiKT1ve	oh i didnt log in	12:59
AddiKT1ve	lol thats why i failed to send PM	12:59
harolddong	can I install the svn of amarok 2 with the new kde4 rc2 build? will it mess up my current amarok 1.4.8 install?	12:59
cheguevara	morning	12:59
harolddong	I'd really like to try amarok 2 but I dont know if I can install them side by side	13:00
cheguevara	yes u can	13:00
harolddong	and it wont overwrite my current amarok?	13:00
cheguevara	nop	13:01
harolddong	awesome thanks I'll give it a shot	13:02
harolddong	when is the new menu going to be included in kde4	13:02
harolddong	I can't say for the current one	13:03
harolddong	*cant say much for it	13:03
Riddell	dirk? Beineri? uh oh, I'd better prepare something :)	13:03
jessy_james	ciao	13:03
Artemis_Fowl	The Tutorial Day begis in 2 hours?	13:04
AddiKT1ve	yep	13:04
Beineri_	Riddell: ;-)	13:04
AddiKT1ve	4pm CET :p	13:04
AddiKT1ve	isnt it wolfger	13:04
sigma	how exactly is this tutorial going to work?	13:05
Riddell	Hobbsee: where's me?	13:05
Hobbsee	Riddell: apparently you're there.	13:06
dirk	Riddell: hmm, you're not broadcasting yourself on youtube? (of course with naked chicks dancing in the background?)	13:06
* PJC121 is tutorial ready		13:06
PJC121	or ready for lol	13:06
ardchoille	two more hours	13:07
PJC121	yeppers, I'm early, what can I say	13:07
PJC121	:)	13:07
Riddell	sigma: I'm hoping the speakers can just chat here and people can follow along	13:07
Riddell	hopefully we don't need to restrict who can speak on channel	13:08
txwikinger2	Hobbsee: Where is Australia?	13:08
Hobbsee	txwikinger2: :P	13:08
cheguevara	where's tonio these days	13:09
Riddell	working hard mostly	13:09
Hobbsee	working	13:09
cheguevara	ah	13:09
Riddell	Hobbsee: poke poke, could you raise the priority of kdepimlibs/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu3	13:11
sigma	Riddell: oh ok i see, this is the first time im attending a tutorial on irc, hope il learn something new	13:12
Riddell	it's the first time we've held them, we'll all be learning something new :)	13:13
Hobbsee	Riddell: oh, fudge.	13:14
cheguevara	lol has it still not built	13:14
Hobbsee	Riddell: done	13:14
sigma	ah ok i see!	13:15
=== meduxa is now known as toscalix
cheguevara	Riddell: is it correct that install of kdebase-workspace causes the removal of kdebase-bin-kde3	13:17
Riddell	cheguevara: yes, that's fine if kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 gets installed	13:18
cheguevara	ah ok	13:19
cheguevara	'cause it seems to be finally installable now	13:19
cheguevara	no more broken deps	13:19
Riddell	cheguevara: hardy i386?	13:19
cheguevara	yep	13:19
Riddell	golly	13:19
cheguevara	though	13:20
cheguevara	it wants to remove my java 7	13:20
cheguevara	for some unknown reason	13:20
Riddell	possibly libgif/libungif	13:20
cheguevara	yep	13:21
cheguevara	was about to say that	13:21
Riddell	Hobbsee: could you also raise the priority of kdebase-workspace/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5 kdebase-kde4/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4 kdebase-runtime/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4	13:21
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu Tutorials Day at 15:00 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay \| please discuss tutorials in #kubuntu while they are running
* wolfger joins yet another channel...		13:23
cheguevara	wolfger, at least you don't follow channels for 2 different distros	13:24
* wolfger rejoins #gentoo just for the heck of it		13:25
Hobbsee	Riddell: done, but it would be nice if kde didn't have quite so many builds. lamont's getting antsy about getting it to build on the slower arches.	13:25
cheguevara	am too scared to be in #gentoo, too much traffic just idle in #gentoo-dev	13:26
cheguevara	apperentely kdm-kde4 doesn't configure again	13:26
cheguevara	Setting up kdm-kde4 (4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5) ...	13:27
cheguevara	dpkg: error processing kdm-kde4 (--configure):	13:27
cheguevara	subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1	13:27
nosrednaekim	tutorials start in an hour and a half, right?	13:27
jpatrick	yep	13:27
elisiano	cheguevara: what about setting debug for postinst script?	13:28
cheguevara	whats the best way to do that, 'cause my packaging knowlege is close to 0	13:30
elisiano	mine too, never packaged, I just edit the postinst script (usually /var/lib/dpkg/info/PACKAGE.postinst) and add -x to the interpreter	13:32
elisiano	but maybe it's not the best way to go	13:32
cheguevara	ah thats an idea elisiano :P	13:34
jpatrick	Hobbsee: can you give back krita-plugins 1.6.3-0ubuntu1 - it builds now that the transition for libopenxre thingy is done	13:35
* txwikinger2 has a headache		13:35
* txwikinger2 just got 120k worth of laptops delivered		13:36
cheguevara	http://pastebin.ca/814596	13:36
Hobbsee	jpatrick: givne back on ia64	13:37
jpatrick	Hobbsee: thank you	13:37
elisiano	cheguevara: i had the same issue	13:38
elisiano	u shoud try to assign DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=kdm	13:39
elisiano	instead of DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=kdm-kde4	13:39
cheguevara	hmmm	13:39
cheguevara	right brb kde4 time	13:40
elisiano	#	13:41
elisiano	+ which kdm-kde4	13:41
elisiano	#	13:41
elisiano	+ DAEMON_NAME=	13:41
elisiano	that's the problem	13:41
cheguevara	yeah	13:41
elisiano	lines 40-41	13:41
cheguevara	DAEMON_NAME var ends up empty	13:42
elisiano	yup	13:42
cheguevara	but really brb	13:43
cheguevara	still doesn't start without compositing disabled in xorg.conf :P	13:51
cheguevara	and i had to "touch .kde4/share/config/startupconfig" for some reason to get it to load	13:52
nosrednaekim	cheguevara: kdm-kde4 or kde4?	13:52
cheguevara	kde4	13:53
nosrednaekim	cheguevara: ah, well, just be glad its running :D	13:53
nareshov	heh	13:53
cheguevara	yeah not really complaining lol	13:53
elisiano	:)	13:53
cheguevara	when things don't work in rc3 thats when i'll start complaining :P	13:54
nareshov	:P	13:54
nosrednaekim	if there is an RC3	13:54
nosrednaekim	ok, bye everyone! be back in an hour	13:55
elisiano	@now	13:55
ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: December 13 2007, 13:55:35 - Current meeting: Desktop Team Development	13:55
unknownuser	can someone tell me with the chat today be saved some were?	13:55
nosrednaekim	elisiano: what? its sarting now?	13:56
elisiano	it says so	13:56
cheguevara	yes it will be	13:56
nosrednaekim	thought it started at 15:00	13:56
stdin	!logs	13:56
ubotu	Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/	13:56
cheguevara	not sure where though	13:56
unknownuser	the time says one the web 15:00	13:56
kwwii	yes, it is starting in a bit, but that is the ubuntu desktop team, not the kubuntu stuff	13:56
elisiano	15:00 is in 4 minutes my time	13:56
nosrednaekim	and the meeting is here...	13:56
elisiano	(GMT+1)	13:56
nosrednaekim	precisely..	13:57
jpatrick	it starts in an hour	13:57
kwwii	the kubuntu meeting was last night	13:57
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
kwwii	jpatrick: no, it starts in a couple of minutes	13:57
Riddell	tutorials are in an hour	13:58
jpatrick	kwwii:	13:58
jpatrick	^^ :)	13:58
unknownuser	thankyou for the logs see you guys soon	13:58
cheguevara	might as well go read ubuntu meeting for now	13:58
kwwii	ok, I'll shut up	13:58
nareshov	yay	13:58
nareshov	I'll have dinner by then	13:59
nareshov	digiKam is neat :)	13:59
mihael	CET is one hour before UTC	13:59
cheguevara	may be they'll talk about gnome getting some features :P	13:59
nareshov	I'm on IST	13:59
mihael	turtuil will start in a hour	13:59
pvandewyngaerde	its 15.00 here	14:01
=== thomme___ is now known as thomme
sigma__	you aren't in the utc timezone	14:02
karl	back	14:04
fadey	hi	14:05
CeoN	so still 1hour left?	14:06
nareshov	55min	14:06
CeoN	ok :)	14:06
nixternal	Riddell: did you get Mark Summerfields "Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt"? freakin' amazing book. The best Python book I have read yet. I think I learned more Python from that book than I have from any other book	14:07
Riddell	nixternal: I havn't	14:08
nareshov	Qt4 ?	14:08
nixternal	yes	14:08
nixternal	I think I now have more Python books than any bookstore	14:09
nareshov	heh	14:09
cheguevara	lol	14:09
wolfger	...so I get the impression I'm going to be learning Python if I keep coming around here, eh?	14:10
nixternal	wolfger: I guess...cuz I am attempting to learn it myself	14:10
nixternal	I still am not a fan of it, but that is slowly changing day by day	14:11
dthacker	Hi, I'm triaging bug 175684. about dolphin. Is the user's complaint really desired behavior?	14:11
ubotu	Launchpad bug 175684 in dolphin "dolphin does not keep selected file on dir list update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175684	14:11
nixternal	I thought there was already a bug for that issue	14:12
dthacker	nixternal: didn't see one on search....	14:12
nixternal	never mind	14:12
nixternal	I was thnking of another boog	14:12
wolfger	dthacker: I think the user's asking for something good	14:12
nareshov	dthacker: didn't see this? http://www.qtrac.eu/pyqtbook.html	14:12
wolfger	would be exceptionally annoying, especially on a multi-user system	14:12
dthacker	nareshov: ?? nixternal bought the book, I'm still playing with ruby for two other projects.	14:14
nareshov	oh	14:14
dthacker	wolfger: I'll confirm and throw it in the lap of the gods.	14:14
=== _elisiano is now known as elisiano_
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
darx	i'm looking for the devel tuts. am i in the right place?	14:19
meven	ys	14:19
meven	darx: yes you are	14:19
wolfger	41 minutes...	14:19
darx	hola... nebody home?	14:20
darx	cool	14:20
meven	darx : isn't it ?	14:20
meven	be patient	14:20
darx	righty ;-)	14:20
\sh	moins	14:21
sigma	i hope theres more than 175 people attending the tutorial	14:23
nixternal	OG!	14:24
nixternal	what are you doing in here spying?	14:24
\sh	moins og :)	14:24
nixternal	BUSTED! :p	14:24
nareshov	:P	14:24
sigma	lol	14:24
OgMaciel	\sh: dude!!!!	14:24
OgMaciel	nixternal: hehehe I always wanted to check out pyQt stuff	14:25
nixternal	careful of them Koresight dudes and their Konary :)	14:25
OgMaciel	\sh: how it goes?	14:25
nareshov	hehe	14:25
OgMaciel	nixternal: Koresight HAHAHAha	14:25
\sh	OgMaciel, boring...waiting to leave this fcking company	14:25
OgMaciel	\sh: OH? SORRY TO HEAR DUDE	14:25
OgMaciel	oops	14:25
OgMaciel	sorry for caps too	14:25
\sh	OgMaciel, no...new job is already in place :)	14:26
* OgMaciel kicks his keyboard		14:26
nixternal	OgMaciel: 4 minutes? I did it in 2 minutes 48 seconds from the time the gui came up to the time it said to reboot :)	14:26
OgMaciel	\sh: are you coming to work at rPath? ;)	14:26
OgMaciel	nixternal: the KDE version is quicker	14:26
nixternal	it always is, when are you gnome people going to learn? :p	14:26
nareshov	:P	14:27
nixternal	muhehehe	14:27
\sh	OgMaciel, nope...just doing my usual stuff...sysadmin work :)	14:27
* OgMaciel throws a flying crutch at nixternal		14:27
nixternal	oh man, here we go again	14:27
OgMaciel	:)	14:27
OgMaciel	nixternal: I'm running out of crutches with you	14:28
nixternal	does anyone else get flying crutches as much as I do	14:28
* txwikinger2 is leaving for home... back in a bit		14:28
nixternal	hahaha	14:28
OgMaciel	nixternal: Ken Vandine	14:28
nixternal	whew, good to know, whack the bossman with um	14:28
OgMaciel	nixternal: the poor guy has to work wearing a helmet these days	14:28
Hobbsee	!visternal	14:28
ubotu	Oh no! The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!	14:28
\sh	OgMaciel, sorry to read that you were not voted into the g-board	14:29
nixternal	oh man, Hobbsee you are the bestest!	14:29
Hobbsee	:P	14:29
nixternal	Hobbsee: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/burning.jpg	14:29
OgMaciel	\sh: thanks dude... I was fairly happy with getting 49 votes! I was expecting less	14:29
Hobbsee	haha	14:29
OgMaciel	better luck enxt time, huh?	14:29
nixternal	that tripped me out when I seen that	14:29
nareshov	heh, it's burning :P	14:30
wolfger	lol... that's fanatastic	14:30
* OgMaciel blames nixternal and the drought in North Carolina		14:30
OgMaciel	:P	14:30
\sh	OgMaciel, my pleasure is, that I was the bad guy who convinced you to do some "real work" ,-)	14:30
nixternal	hey, don't blame me, we have plenty of liquid here in chicago...its just that it is currently frozen :)	14:30
OgMaciel	\sh: hahahaha and I will never "forgive" you :)	14:31
* OgMaciel plots a way to get frozen-liquid water from Chicago down to NC		14:31
nixternal	snowballs!	14:31
OgMaciel	w00t	14:31
nixternal	screw flyin' crutches, we have snowballs!	14:31
OgMaciel	hahaha	14:31
OgMaciel	nixternal: two words: FROZEN crutches	14:32
* Hobbsee sends the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ in nixternal's direction		14:32
nixternal	actually ice balls is more like it right now	14:32
nixternal	hahahahaha	14:32
OgMaciel	:P	14:32
nixternal	why am I the butt of everyone's deadly object this morning? :P	14:32
Hobbsee	this morning?	14:32
wolfger	what? Your butt is a deadly object?	14:32
OgMaciel	hahaha	14:32
nixternal	haha, true	14:32
Hobbsee	surely not every morning....and every afternoon and evening?	14:32
wolfger	oh, sorry, I heard that wrong :-D	14:32
\sh	good to know that we have some mulled wine these days	14:32
nixternal	wolfger: hahaha	14:33
* OgMaciel glad he sent nixternal those shorts with a target drawn in the back		14:33
cheguevara	:P	14:33
nareshov	:P	14:33
nixternal	OgMaciel: ya, don't wear those in jail	14:33
OgMaciel	HAHAHAHA	14:33
cheguevara	lol	14:33
* OgMaciel has some unit tests to finish this morning		14:33
nixternal	OgMaciel: Kubuntu rocks so hard, that we brought back El Che!	14:34
OgMaciel	ay caramba!	14:34
nixternal	hahaha	14:34
OgMaciel	:)	14:34
* \sh is only angry at his wife, when no cold beer is in the fridge after breakfast		14:34
OgMaciel	nothing like some beer in your pancakes	14:34
nixternal	hahaha, no cold beer after breakfast....that is classic	14:34
nixternal	beerios!	14:34
OgMaciel	COLD beer that is	14:34
* Hobbsee confiscates all the beer		14:35
* OgMaciel runs		14:35
* nixternal hides his beer		14:35
* OgMaciel trips without his crutches		14:35
cheguevara	lol	14:35
nixternal	lol	14:35
* OgMaciel spills his beer in nixternal		14:35
cheguevara	in where :P	14:35
OgMaciel	hahahaha	14:35
birunko	hahahaah	14:35
nixternal	as long as you spilled in me that is cool, better than on me...didn't want to have to suck my clothes dry for a buzz	14:36
* Hobbsee throws OgMaciel at nixternal		14:36
* OgMaciel ponders what to do with all the beer spilt		14:36
OgMaciel	weeeee	14:36
* nixternal throws nixternal at Hobbsee		14:36
OgMaciel	BULLS EYE	14:36
nixternal	booyahkah	14:36
\sh	NOW this is christmas... a gnome foundation candidate and a KDE priest are "cuddling" together in a kubuntu channel ... how peaceful, thx, it's christmas ,-)	14:36
* Hobbsee is too small to attempt to throw things at		14:36
* dennda drops in and hugs everyone		14:36
nareshov	heh	14:36
nixternal	\sh: hahahahah	14:36
OgMaciel	\sh: hehehe	14:36
Hobbsee	urg. christmas.	14:36
Hobbsee	CHRISTMAS IS CANCELLED. KTHXBYE.	14:36
nixternal	lol	14:36
cheguevara	lol	14:37
* OgMaciel hopes nixternal will keep his shorts on		14:37
wolfger	that's ok, I already got my xmas gift	14:37
nixternal	I wonder if that guy is going to create another Ubuntu Christmas Edition..that was pretty slick last year	14:37
wolfger	early presents rock	14:37
\sh	kill -SIGXMAS 666	14:37
* Hobbsee will acknowledge christmas on dec 24, 10.15pm, and not a moment before.		14:37
* OgMaciel hides his red outfit		14:37
Hobbsee	(when i stop working)	14:37
OgMaciel	I even let my belly grow	14:37
nixternal	isn't Christmas as insane every where else around the world like it is here in the US?	14:37
OgMaciel	nixternal: prolly not	14:38
wolfger	not that I've noticed	14:38
nixternal	here in the US, people will kill over that damn Thomas The Train toy	14:38
cheguevara	it is in eu	14:38
cheguevara	well may be not as much	14:38
\sh	well, at last in germany the past changed into "christmas starts after easter"	14:38
Hobbsee	nixternal: we just get some really stupid, dazed customers.	14:38
* OgMaciel avoids going to malls during this time of the year		14:38
nareshov	hehe	14:38
nixternal	OgMaciel: me too	14:38
nixternal	www.amazon.com!	14:38
wolfger	I was in Germany in mid-December a few years back, and it didn't seem to be nearly so nuts	14:38
OgMaciel	nixternal: amen!	14:39
nareshov	thank god there's not much of a christmas in india :D	14:39
=== dread is now known as DreadKnight
Hobbsee	like, doing their shopping, leaving it all behind. leaving wallets, etc. not thinking that they have to hand over money to pay. sheep mentality with queues.	14:39
nixternal	the only thing I didn't get on Amazon were earing for my x-wife	14:39
Hobbsee	general idiocy (yes, there are multiple accounts on cards)	14:39
\sh	wolfger, germany is changing...	14:39
nixternal	and the Hollister clothes my daughter has been going nuts over	14:39
OgMaciel	nixternal: what about MY gift?	14:39
OgMaciel	:P	14:39
nixternal	OgMaciel: I just did return to sender on the shorts, you should be getting them shortly	14:40
OgMaciel	used???	14:40
nixternal	shorts, shortly, you like that :p	14:40
OgMaciel	ewww	14:40
nixternal	looks like the Indy 500 in um	14:40
OgMaciel	HAHAHAHAHA	14:40
* OgMaciel vomits a bit		14:40
nixternal	hahahhaha	14:40
* OgMaciel needs more caffeine		14:40
OgMaciel	and beer	14:40
OgMaciel	:)	14:40
nixternal	haha	14:40
nixternal	OgMaciel: www.drinkfour.com	14:41
nixternal	there you go, beer + caffeine	14:41
* OgMaciel gullibly clicks on link		14:41
dennda	\sh: didn't notice the change	14:41
nixternal	specialKevin brought some of that to a lug meeting a couple of weeks ago	14:41
nixternal	you get drunk, but you never pass out	14:41
DreadKnight	will Mark Shuttleworth join us?	14:41
nareshov	:D	14:41
nixternal	hahahahahahahahaa	14:41
nixternal	DreadKnight: that was the funniest thing I have read all morning	14:42
OgMaciel	nixternal: niiiice	14:42
nixternal	we have someone bigger than Mark...we have JR himself	14:42
birunko	ahahah	14:42
DreadKnight	JR?	14:42
nixternal	as well as Hobbsee and her pointy stick of doom	14:42
nixternal	Jonathan Riddell!	14:42
DreadKnight	:\|	14:42
DreadKnight	let me google..	14:42
Hobbsee	mmm...pointy...	14:42
\sh	dennda, in my times when I was a child, xmas started only one or two weeks before the 24th in shops...now it starts already beginning of oktober	14:42
nixternal	DreadKnight: he is the Canonical madman behind Kubuntu	14:43
DreadKnight	nixternal: woop ^_^	14:43
dennda	\sh: true	14:43
nixternal	plus, you would have to support KDE or Kubuntu first before you would show up in here :)	14:43
DreadKnight	that's great... me = new KDE lover	14:43
nixternal	OK, that was a low blow in Jucato's name there	14:43
DreadKnight	i converted from GNOME / Ubuntu recently ;)	14:44
OgMaciel	"premium malt beverage with caffeine, wormwood oil, taruine, guarana, natural and artificial flavors and certified color (fo&c red #40)"	14:44
nixternal	hehe	14:44
OgMaciel	got to love Red #40	14:44
nixternal	and it is tasteful as well	14:44
* Hobbsee ponders the various evil of attending this session from a gnome session.		14:44
nixternal	6% alc by volume == watch out now, going down hard	14:44
OgMaciel	6%??? bah	14:44
nixternal	hehe	14:44
* Hobbsee thinks that's about as bad as where she was going to attend her core dev application from MS windows, and putty :P		14:44
* OgMaciel does mouth wash with 6%		14:44
nixternal	hahhahhahahaha	14:45
nixternal	Hobbsee: that is classic...going for core-dev from behind the evil empire!	14:45
OgMaciel	no wonder my morning routine is all but a blur to me	14:45
nixternal	lol	14:45
Hobbsee	nixternal: i didnt' end up doing that	14:45
Hobbsee	nixternal: i ended up being albe to come home.	14:45
nixternal	Hobbsee: can't be any worse than working on Kubuntu from my desk at Microsoft :)	14:45
* OgMaciel will go back to his unit testing and will read the log later		14:46
Hobbsee	nixternal: so, i was on a conference call, with various canonical types, and matt's tryign to hold this core dev meeting - but i'm on the phone, along with one of the TB, so we were all late :P	14:46
nixternal	all in good fashion	14:46
nixternal	have fun OgMaciel	14:46
OgMaciel	:)	14:46
DreadKnight	any blender users around here?	14:46
elisiano_	nixternal: are you workong in MS and have a kubuntu desktop?	14:46
nixternal	I can even use Tuxpaint, so that would be a no here	14:46
elisiano_	do they consider you a terrorist or what?	14:47
Ishmayeck	I kinda play with blender from time to time...	14:47
nixternal	elisiano_: yup	14:47
DreadKnight	xD	14:47
Hobbsee	DreadKnight: yeah, FSVO user	14:47
Ishmayeck	and hello folks :)	14:47
nixternal	the whole time I worked at Microsoft, I never used Windows :)	14:47
birunko	lol	14:47
elisiano_	nixternal: seriously, are you allowed to do that?	14:47
DreadKnight	Hobbsee: what's that?	14:47
nixternal	there were a select few of us that worked on Solaris, BSD, and Linux	14:47
Hobbsee	for some value of	14:47
DreadKnight	:)	14:47
nixternal	elisiano_: we sure were	14:47
elisiano_	:O	14:47
birunko	that's new for me	14:48
\sh	nixternal, you worked for microsoft and never worked with their software? guess: you were a bouncer ,-)	14:48
dholbach	oopsie, one ctrl-w too much	14:48
elisiano_	never thought that M$ used non M$ operating systems, even for servers	14:48
elisiano_	lol	14:48
birunko	hehe	14:48
nixternal	\sh: hehe, we worked with their software, but at the time they were working on a shared source api for *nix...that obviously never took off	14:48
nixternal	elisiano_: microsoft has a nice server farm of HP-UX equipment	14:49
elisiano_	:O	14:49
nixternal	they do a lot of interoperable testing actually	14:49
elisiano_	omg, and I never considered working for M$	14:49
nixternal	they make sure they can operate with nix, while nix can't operate with them :)	14:49
elisiano_	what a bitch-x I am	14:49
cheguevara	lol	14:49
_nix_	lol	14:49
birunko	lol	14:49
nixternal	only reason I did was because times were hard and their pay and benefits were great	14:49
nixternal	but our division was treated like crap	14:50
elisiano_	why u speak of it in the past? don't u work there anymore?	14:50
_nix_	am I late? this is the place for "Kubuntu Tutorials Day" right?	14:50
nixternal	we were the red headed step children...so much so that they didn't even allow us in Redmond, we had to stay in Chicago :)	14:50
freeflying	apachelogger_: arounds?	14:50
dthacker	.o0("oh I'm just workin' for Redmond, got those workin' for Redmond blues")	14:50
nixternal	haha	14:51
nixternal	I quit there and went back to school	14:51
elisiano_	O_o	14:51
nixternal	plus it got in the way of my addiction to Kubuntu	14:51
nixternal	;)	14:51
dholbach	_nix_: you're right here - starting in ~10 minutes	14:51
pvandewyngaerde	nixternal: backt to school ? did they brainwash you ?	14:51
krawek	@now	14:52
nixternal	pvandewyngaerde: nope...I was in the military, so schooling is free and I needed to take advantage of it	14:52
stdin	it's 14:52 krawek	14:52
\sh	nixternal, don't tell lies...you are working still for ballmer...and everything you learn from kde and kubuntu it goes into vista+1 codename "crash monkey"	14:52
nixternal	stdin: you the new ubotu?	14:52
nareshov	hehe	14:52
* dthacker notes that he still has time to microwave breakfast. brb		14:52
birunko	\sh, hahaahah	14:52
nixternal	actually the code name is "shit box"	14:52
stdin	nixternal: no, but poor ubotu is tired :p	14:53
DreadKnight	\sh: lol xD	14:53
birunko	he's a kinda of spy	14:53
pvandewyngaerde	date --utc	14:53
\sh	Riddell, come here and pray us pykde4 ,-)	14:53
cheguevara	yay for xorg crashing	14:53
nixternal	hey, I am not the only dev in these neck of the woods that worked for microsoft	14:53
nixternal	but I took an oath to never tell on that person :)	14:53
nixternal	do you realize what Microsoft looks like on a resume/cv?	14:53
elisiano_	where can I find the timetable of the today's classes?	14:54
elisiano_	:)	14:54
nixternal	absolutetly nothing, cuz companies don't care! :)	14:54
stdin	elisiano_: in the topic	14:54
apachelogger_	freeflying: hey	14:54
nixternal	watch out, that apachelogger_ dude is here spreading amarok cheer	14:54
elisiano_	shame on me, sorry stdin	14:54
* \sh is outing himself...he had an real SCO Unix in his past...payed :)		14:54
Hobbsee	\sh: s/payed/paid/ btw	14:55
apachelogger_	hm	14:55
apachelogger_	may I say	14:55
\sh	Hobbsee, thxc	14:55
Hobbsee	:)	14:55
apachelogger_	Amarok ROCKZ	14:55
nixternal	\sh: I was so close to working on SCO equipment for the hospitals around here, but they hired my buddy instead, and then the company tanked within the year :)	14:55
nareshov	true	14:55
Nightrose	nixternal: he is not the only one :P	14:55
apachelogger_	right	14:55
apachelogger_	the Nightrose is much worse	14:55
nixternal	oooh, even Nightrose is here	14:55
Nightrose	\o/ Amarok	14:55
AddiKT1ve	5 minutes left :p	14:55
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: PyKDE/Qt Tutorial \| Kubuntu Tutorials Day https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay \| please discuss tutorials in #kubuntu while they are running
nixternal	YAY	14:55
jembouge	stdin: you're on every channel :p	14:55
Riddell	still 5 minutes :)	14:55
apachelogger_	meh	14:55
nixternal	EVERYONE PLEASE GIVE A WARM WELCOME AND A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR OUR MAN	14:55
stdin	jembouge: not every channel, just 21 of them	14:56
nixternal	J O N A T H A N R I D D E L L	14:56
pvandewyngaerde	stdin is the irseek logbot	14:56
* xRaich[o]2x claps		14:56
apachelogger_	cheer applaud	14:56
birunko	lol	14:56
birunko	\o/	14:56
nareshov	claps	14:56
* simpsus applauds		14:56
jembouge	* applauds	14:56
nixternal	that was totally lame	14:56
lucky_lucas	claps	14:56
apachelogger_	gimme a J!	14:56
nixternal	J	14:56
nareshov	J	14:56
nixternal	hahah	14:56
xRaich[o]2x	WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!	14:56
apachelogger_	gimme a O	14:56
birunko	hhaahahahah	14:56
=== ajj is now known as Janz
nareshov	O	14:56
lucky_lucas	O	14:56
* jembouge hurray!		14:56
apachelogger_	gimme a N	14:56
nareshov	N	14:56
lucky_lucas	N	14:56
\sh	you are all soo crazy ,-)	14:56
apachelogger_	gimme a T	14:56
nareshov	T	14:56
birunko	t	14:56
lucky_lucas	T	14:56
nixternal	you spelled his name wrong!	14:56
apachelogger_	gimme an H	14:56
\sh	no wonder that kubuntu has a blue color ;)	14:56
nixternal	JONT	14:56
nareshov	H	14:57
birunko	haahah	14:57
nixternal	you forgot the A	14:57
apachelogger_	gimme an A	14:57
nareshov	A	14:57
apachelogger_	meh	14:57
lucky_lucas	hehe	14:57
apachelogger_	screw that	14:57
apachelogger_	:P	14:57
nixternal	hahahahahahahaha	14:57
_nix_	yay john..	14:57
apachelogger_	JONATHAN	14:57
apachelogger_	cheer	14:57
apachelogger_	right	14:57
lucky_lucas	Yeah	14:57
apachelogger_	meh	14:57
apachelogger_	<-- totally outtyped	14:57
nareshov	hehe	14:57
apachelogger_	so	14:58
apachelogger_	how about some tea?	14:58
stdin	maybe some coffee	14:58
birunko	beer	14:58
Nightrose	yea tea for me please ;-)	14:58
stdin	!coffee \| for all	14:58
ubotu	for all: coffee is a caffeinated beverage made by filtering water through ground up roasted beans of the coffee plant. Flavouring to taste such as milk or cream, sugar or sweetener are often added afterwards. Not to be confused with !java	14:58
limac	stdin: hey, when's the thing starting?	14:58
nixternal	1 minute	14:59
apachelogger_	-.-	14:59
apachelogger_	I say 2	14:59
stdin	limac: in about a 40 secs :)	14:59
Reydan	:)	14:59
limac	stdin: schools closed because of snow day! :)	14:59
* apachelogger_ takes his seat		14:59
dholbach	we have a lot of excited people here! :)	14:59
limac	hah!	14:59
limac	here it comes!	14:59
nixternal	dholbach: always a good sign!	14:59
nixternal	everyone must be hopped up on caffeine	14:59
wolfger	w00t	14:59
* apachelogger_ looks into his schedule folder		14:59
kenny	i know i am	14:59
sigma	lets get the show on the road:)	14:59
txwikinger	hey .. just in time :)	15:00
Riddell	Good Afternoon Friends	15:00
Longfield	just in time	15:00
* wolfger is hopped up on "taking a vacation day to be here"		15:00
Riddell	is anyone here for the PyQt tutorial?	15:00
_nix_	Good Afternoon	15:00
limac	it 10:00 eastern	15:00
fmo	yes	15:00
limac	me	15:00
birunko	uha	15:00
pexi	yes	15:00
_nix_	yup	15:00
* nareshov raises his hand		15:00
kenny	yep	15:00
jussi01	Riddell: me!	15:00
dthacker	yep	15:00
* Hobbsee is here to take over the world.		15:00
Tolaris	yes	15:00
apachelogger_	Riddell: I'm voting for bug triage so that I can leave again :P	15:00
luis_lopez	yep	15:00
sigma	its exactly 5pm in south africa	15:00
wolfger	I'm here for everything	15:00
jussi01	!hobbsee \| Hobbsee	15:00
ubotu	Hobbsee: I phear the stick so shhhhh	15:00
pvandewyngaerde	Pyes	15:00
Riddell	this channel has over doubled in size since it was announced, so some people must be	15:00
_nix_	2030 in India	15:00
rebugger	its 4pm in germany	15:00
limac	here for everything	15:00
Panke	i am here for pykde.	15:00
nareshov	Yo _nix_	15:00
=== arpan is now known as Kody
meven	4pm in France too	15:01
limac	when is it starting?	15:01
xRaich[o]2x	i here for everything	15:01
Riddell	ok, now I look all important	15:01
nixternal	w00t	15:01
* dthacker is here for the day. took a vacation day		15:01
cheguevara	lol	15:01
Riddell	this is our first time of running this	15:01
Tolaris	I'm here for 15:00 UTC - 16:00 UTC: Packaging 101, not PyQT	15:01
Tolaris	:)	15:01
sigma	lol	15:01
AddiKT1ve	hai	15:01
Mondaar	ho..he has the "mark"	15:01
Riddell	it may be a complete disaster	15:01
AddiKT1ve	looks like everyone is conneting	15:01
nosrednaekim	hey everyone!	15:01
AddiKT1ve	connecting*	15:01
cheguevara	thats the spirit....	15:01
limac	so who is our tutor?	15:02
* magnetron is connecting		15:02
nareshov	limac: Riddell	15:02
* _nix_ gotta turn of JOINS PARTS QUITS		15:02
nosrednaekim	Riddell :D	15:02
Riddell	but hopefully we can help people learn something new and get into helping with Kubuntu, KDE and the causes of Freedom	15:02
nixternal	Riddell: Vista was a complete disaster, what you are about to do my friend, is rock the stage :)	15:02
apachelogger_	if it is a disaster we just do some hype promo :P	15:02
stdin	Tolaris: if you read the link in the topic, you'll see Packaging 101 is 17:00 UTC - 18:00 UTC	15:02
limac	Riddell: hey	15:02
DreadKnight	vista made me discover linux and open source software xD	15:02
Riddell	so, first thing, please keep discussion in #kubuntu	15:02
Riddell	else we'll be drowned out	15:02
nixternal	#kubuntu-offtopic rather	15:02
nareshov	will this chan be +m'ed ?	15:02
dthacker	perhaps #kubuntu-offtopic?	15:02
* Hobbsee_ kills konversation		15:03
nosrednaekim	Riddell: is this going to be run like OpenWeek was?	15:03
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
DreadKnight	#kubuntu_own_ye_all	15:03
Riddell	you can ask questions here, I'm hoping we won't need to play with channel modes	15:03
nareshov	or #kubuntu-classroom ?	15:03
Hobbsee	nareshov: not if we don't have to	15:03
nareshov	ok	15:03
Riddell	just a quick rundown, PyQt/KDE now	15:03
_nix_	nareshov: yo..	15:03
Riddell	bug triage in an hour	15:03
Tolaris	thanks, stdin. it would have been nice if the web page had been updated.	15:03
limac	yay	15:03
Riddell	bzr in 1.5 hours	15:03
Tolaris	See you later	15:03
Riddell	packaging at 17:00	15:03
=== Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer
Riddell	get it into the archives at 18:00	15:04
Riddell	and general Q&A at 19:00	15:04
limac	so when r we beginning?	15:04
Riddell	all times UTC	15:04
Riddell	lets start	15:04
limac	too anxious!	15:04
limac	yay!	15:04
Riddell	for this tutorial you'll need to apt-get install python-qt4	15:04
Riddell	if you're lucky you may be able to apt-get install python-kde4	15:04
Riddell	but it's still compiling away on some platforms, so it's not required	15:04
Riddell	you'll also need to apt-get install qt4-designer	15:05
mihas	y	15:05
kwilliam	ok	15:05
Riddell	files for the tutorial are at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/	15:05
Riddell	the slides at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/04-pyqt-tutorial.pdf I used for a tutorial earlier this year	15:05
Riddell	and the first file you need is http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/hola.py	15:06
DreadKnight	!root pykde	15:06
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about root pykde - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	15:06
Riddell	this is the world's easiest python app	15:06
Riddell	#!/usr/bin/python	15:06
Riddell	print "hola"	15:06
Riddell	just prints out a message on the console	15:06
Riddell	Python, as you should know, is a programming language	15:06
Riddell	it's many times easier than C++	15:06
Riddell	and many many times easier than C	15:07
Riddell	it's the perferred language for apps in Ubuntu distros	15:07
DreadKnight	who wants to be my python tutor? ^^	15:07
kwilliam	hmm, I got a timeout on hola.py	15:07
Riddell	it has its faults as Ruby programmers will say	15:07
Straphka	is that the only content of hola.py? I cant download it	15:07
nareshov	me too, contacting...	15:07
mihas	got a timeout too, server busy :)	15:08
cheguevara	doesn't load for me either	15:08
nareshov	contacted. Waiting for reply...	15:08
simpsus	me too	15:08
nareshov	DreadKnight: you might want to read diveintopython	15:08
birunko	still busy	15:08
limac	python is way easier than c++: true, i agree	15:08
limac	and c	15:08
Riddell	you can also get the files from http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/	15:08
cheguevara	thats better :P	15:08
nareshov	hola.py - lol	15:08
ropiku	can you please keep discussions on other channel ? it's hard to watch what Riddell says	15:09
Riddell	you can run the app with "python hola.py"	15:09
Riddell	or you can make it executable with "chmod 755 hola.py" and run "./hola.py"	15:09
kwilliam	much better download, thnx.	15:09
Riddell	is that working for everyone?	15:09
\sh	DreadKnight, visit http://diveintopython.org/	15:09
cheguevara	yep	15:09
birunko	yup	15:09
meven	yep	15:09
DreadKnight	\sh: thanks :)	15:09
fmo	yes	15:09
limac	btw which one is more useful in general, c++ or python?	15:09
tobixx	got it	15:09
nosrednaekim	Riddell: sure	15:10
kenny	yes	15:10
DreadKnight	thats nice	15:10
Riddell	so let's get graphical	15:10
Riddell	hola2.py is a simple Qt application	15:10
limac	yup	15:10
Riddell	import sys	15:10
Riddell	from PyQt4.QtGui import *	15:10
Riddell	from PyQt4.QtCore import *	15:10
Riddell	is how it starts	15:10
Riddell	these tell python to load some libraries	15:10
Riddell	the sys library does a bunch of basic bits, this app uses it for command line arguments	15:11
Riddell	and the next two lines load the two more important Qt modules	15:11
Riddell	then below the app itself	15:11
Riddell	app = QApplication(sys.argv)	15:11
Riddell	button = QPushButton("hola")	15:11
Riddell	button.show()	15:11
Riddell	app.exec_()	15:11
Panke	is it a good habit too use import * for the modules?	15:11
Riddell	we create a QApplication and call it "app"	15:12
Riddell	Panke: you can also load individual Qt classes, but then you have to change the import line when you need a new class and that soon gets boring	15:12
dennda	Panke: you'd have to type PyQt4.QtGui.something all the time otherwise	15:12
Riddell	I don't think there's much memory disadvantage to just loading * in this case	15:12
Straphka	can't exec it, "can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtGui"	15:12
Straphka	that normal?	15:12
mihas	from: can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtGui	15:12
mihas	from: can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtCore	15:12
mihas	./hola2.py: line 5: syntax error near unexpected token `('	15:12
mihas	./hola2.py: line 5: `app = QApplication(sys.argv)'	15:12
Riddell	Straphka: I've no idea what's going on there	15:13
nareshov	worked for me :\|	15:13
nosrednaekim	works fine for me.	15:13
blizzzek	import: unable to read X window image `'	15:13
Straphka	Riddell: ok, ill google it then	15:13
cheguevara	works fine here	15:13
nareshov	might need python-qt4-dev ?	15:13
dfitzg	worked for me... do you have python-qt4?	15:13
kenny	works for me as well	15:13
teppic	you need to run python hola2.py, you can't chmod and execute it directly (as it stands)	15:13
cheguevara	mihas, u forgot #!/usr/bin/python	15:14
Riddell	mihas: are you missing the import lines?	15:14
cheguevara	so its interpreting it as a bash script	15:14
Riddell	oh yes, that's my fault, you can add "#!/usr/bin/python" at the top	15:14
mihas	works now	15:14
cheguevara	yeah or just run it through python not directly	15:14
\sh	Riddell, change it to #!/usr/bin/env python ....it's better :)	15:14
kwilliam	or simply run 'python hola2.py'	15:14
kwilliam	no need to make it executable	15:15
Riddell	has anyone been able to install python-kde3?	15:15
dholbach	\sh: the debian policy is happier with #!/usr/bin/python	15:15
Riddell	sorry	15:15
Riddell	python-kde4	15:15
kenny	no, not here	15:15
nareshov	Riddell: nope	15:15
meven	not me	15:15
nosrednaekim	Riddell: I have the 3.96 version	15:15
Riddell	it should be in the KDE 4 gutsy PPA	15:15
cheguevara	not on i386	15:15
Riddell	and may be in the hardy archives by now for i386	15:15
cheguevara	some of us are running hardy :P	15:15
\sh	dholbach, well, we should not think only about debian ;) kde is happy on other distros too ;)	15:15
Straphka	Riddell: just fyi, it works, same prob as mihas	15:15
Riddell	if you have then take a look at hola2-kde.py	15:16
dholbach	\sh: oh man :)	15:16
cheguevara	let me apt-get update	15:16
xRaich[o]2x	python-kde4 works with the ppa repo	15:16
Riddell	Straphka: do you have the import lines? and are you running it with "python hola2.py" ?	15:16
cheguevara	E: Couldn't find package python-kde4	15:16
kenny	same error	15:16
Straphka	Riddell: I meant that I made it executable without specifying the interpeter	15:16
kenny	what's the repo for it?	15:17
stdin	cheguevara: you need the KDE4 PPA repository	15:17
Riddell	if you can't install python-kde4 don't worry	15:17
nareshov	ok	15:17
cheguevara	stdin, aint that PPA gutsy?	15:17
tobixx	ImportError: No module named PyKDE4.kdecore	15:17
Riddell	the package isn't available everywhere yet, it's very new	15:17
stdin	"deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu/ gutsy main"	15:17
Riddell	only uploaded yesterday	15:17
cheguevara	stdin, hardy here	15:17
Riddell	and it's still experimental	15:17
Riddell	but it adds KDE integration so it can make apps feel more at home in KDE	15:17
Riddell	hola2-kde.py changes the Qt import lines	15:17
Riddell	from PyKDE4.kdecore import *	15:17
Riddell	from PyKDE4.kdeui import *	15:17
Riddell	so now we're loading up the KDE libraries (which in turn load up Qt)	15:18
Riddell	KDE also needs us to declaire some data about the app	15:18
Riddell	KCmdLineArgs.init(sys.argv, "pykdeapp", "", ki18n("PyKDE App"), "0.1", ki18n("My first app"));	15:18
Riddell	which tells it the name of the app and a description	15:18
Riddell	you also need to change QApplication to KApplication	15:18
Riddell	and voila, a PyKDE app	15:18
Riddell	anyone got it working?	15:19
nosrednaekim	Riddell: looks nice and oxygen-y to me :D	15:19
Riddell	excellent, gold star to nosrednaekim	15:19
kwilliam	yep! hey oxygen	15:19
mihas	nice	15:19
simpsus	No module named PyKDE4.kdecore	15:19
kenny	whats the ki18n for?	15:19
Riddell	simpsus: you probably don't have python-kde4 installed	15:19
mihas	but why button?	15:19
nareshov	some internationalization thing perhaps	15:19
D_Ed	ki18n translates to the user language	15:19
Riddell	kenny: ki18n() is for translations	15:19
Janz	Ridell: I'm trying to wait for best moment to ask that (specially when no one is having trouble) but, as I'm not finding (sorry), we'll see plasmoids development here, too?	15:19
Daisuke_Laptop	awww, i got here too late	15:19
simpsus	yes, its not there, but nevermind, ill skip this	15:20
DreadKnight	i18n it's the internationalization project	15:20
Riddell	mihas: a button is just a simple widget, we'll move on to a text edit in a moment	15:20
kenny	ok, cool, didn't know that	15:20
Riddell	any questions so far?	15:20
DreadKnight	any romanian people around here?	15:20
Janz	Ridell: I mean, later ...	15:20
Riddell	on topic questions I ment	15:20
nosrednaekim	Riddell: yes, how does it know that you want a qpuchbotton on that app?	15:20
stdin	DreadKnight: questions about the tutorial only please	15:20
Straphka	so we do not have to have python-kde4?	15:20
Janz	Riddell: really sorry for that.	15:21
Riddell	nosrednaekim: we create a button with button = QPushButton("hola")	15:21
Riddell	and show it on the next line	15:21
tseliot	Where can I find the examples ( hola2.py etc.) ?	15:21
nosrednaekim	Riddell: yes, but what if we have two qapplication instances?	15:21
Riddell	tseliot: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/	15:21
nareshov	ooh, the button is nice :)	15:21
Riddell	nosrednaekim: you can only have one QApplication instance	15:21
blizzzek	ImportError: No module named PyKDE4.QtGui <-- got this error	15:21
dholbach	hey tseliot	15:21
Riddell	nosrednaekim: but you can have more than one button if you want	15:21
nosrednaekim	Riddell: ah,ok thanks	15:21
nareshov	blizzzek: add the ppa repo	15:21
tseliot	riddel: thanks	15:22
Riddell	the final line, app.exec_() runs the main loop	15:22
tseliot	dholbach: hi	15:22
blizzzek	na, my error it seems	15:22
Riddell	most GUI applications spend most of their time sitting in the main loop waiting for things to ahppen	15:22
Riddell	like pressing the button	15:22
nareshov	oh, polling?	15:22
kenny	i added the ppa repo, but i keep getting kdebase-runtime-bin is a dependency, but it won't install it	15:22
meven	kenny: same by me	15:23
Riddell	nareshov: it's not polling, that would consume resources, it just sits and waits for something to happen	15:23
nareshov	okay	15:23
nosrednaekim	python-kde4 really isn't necesary everyone, almost everything is done preciself the same in python-qt4	15:23
Riddell	blizzzek: do you have python-qt4 installed?	15:23
Riddell	let's move on	15:23
Riddell	for this next trick you'll need qt4-designer installed	15:24
Riddell	which you run with "designer-qt4" (or from the k-menu)	15:24
blizzzek	Riddell: i have	15:24
Riddell	select a widget and click Create	15:24
Riddell	we're going to make a simple text editor	15:24
kenny	sweet	15:24
Riddell	Qt has a widget called QTextEdit	15:25
DreadKnight	riddell would you like to stream your screeny over the net?	15:25
bddebian	Heya	15:25
Riddell	which you can find in the designer toolbox under Input Widgets	15:25
Riddell	drag one of those to the blank widget (which is covered in a grid of dots)	15:25
Riddell	http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/editor1-designer1.png	15:25
Riddell	looks like that	15:25
dthacker	my first changes are crashing. where should the KCmdLineArgs line go?	15:26
Riddell	dthacker: first thing usually	15:26
dthacker	before imports?	15:27
Riddell	dthacker: after them	15:27
nareshov	right after that	15:27
Artemis_Fowl	includes you mean	15:27
dthacker	ok, other problems then	15:27
wolfger	I don't see a QTextEdit, just TextEdit. Same thing?	15:27
Riddell	qt designer working for people?	15:27
nareshov	yeah	15:27
Riddell	wolfger: that's the one	15:27
Artemis_Fowl	ah, its python talking	15:27
stijn_	ype	15:27
pexi	yes, without problems	15:27
Riddell	now we fit the textEdit widget to the widget	15:28
nareshov	done	15:28
Riddell	click on the background of the widget (with the grid of dots)	15:28
Riddell	then click the "Lay Out Vertically" button in the designer toolbar	15:28
Riddell	you might need to make the toolbox window wider, it usually gets hidden	15:28
Riddell	you should end up with http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/editor1-designer2.png	15:29
Riddell	the TextEdit widget snaps to the edges of the widget	15:29
Riddell	working?	15:29
cheguevara	yep	15:29
meven	ok	15:29
pexi	yes	15:29
nareshov	yes	15:29
Riddell	save that file as editor.ui	15:29
Riddell	in the same place as your python apps are	15:29
kenny	yes	15:29
Riddell	you can also just get http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor.ui	15:30
Riddell	now we need an app to use our text edit	15:30
Riddell	http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor.py	15:30
nareshov	neat, some sort of xml	15:30
Riddell	yes, .ui files are just XML	15:30
xRaich[o]2x	nareshov: it is xml ;)	15:30
nareshov	heh, k	15:30
DreadKnight	Riddell: this text editor can be used as an plasma applet?	15:30
DreadKnight	a*	15:30
AddiKT1ve	DreadKnight, it would rock :o	15:31
Riddell	any user interface that's at all complex should be made in a GUI tool like Qt Designer	15:31
Riddell	otherwise you spend forever creating the widgets by hand and laying them out in your code	15:31
Riddell	editor.py is pretty similar to the previous examples	15:31
nareshov	I see	15:31
Riddell	DreadKnight: I don't know if plasma has python bindings yet, but once it gets those it can be	15:32
DreadKnight	i think Knotes will work with plasma...	15:32
DreadKnight	Riddell: i see, thanks :)	15:32
fmo	how well that is stretch with different screen resolutions?	15:32
Artemis_Fowl	Riddell: does Qt Designer support KDE widgets such as KTextEdit or KListWidget etc.?	15:32
Riddell	instead of creating a QPushButton we're making a QWidget which is a blank widget	15:32
Riddell	then we load our designer file onto that blank widget	15:32
nosrednaekim	Artemis_Fowl: yes	15:32
Riddell	Artemis_Fowl: yes it support KDE widgets if the plugins have been compiled	15:32
Riddell	so	15:33
Artemis_Fowl	and how is this done?	15:33
Riddell	widget = QWidget()	15:33
Riddell	uic.loadUi("editor.ui", widget)	15:33
Riddell	widget.show()	15:33
Riddell	create the blank widget	15:33
Riddell	load the designer file onto that widget	15:33
Riddell	and show the widget	15:33
Riddell	voila, a text editor app	15:33
nareshov	neat	15:33
nosrednaekim	Riddell: umm didn't we skip the pyuic4 step?	15:33
kenny	easy enough	15:33
kwilliam	wow... my kde session crashed.	15:34
anand	nice	15:34
nareshov	heh	15:34
kwilliam	whats happened?	15:34
Riddell	Artemis_Fowl: it should "just work" if all the packages are installed, but it hasn't been well tested and it may well not work with the Kubuntu packages yet	15:34
Riddell	nosrednaekim: we're not using pyuic4	15:34
Riddell	there's two ways to load .ui Designer files	15:34
nosrednaekim	Riddell: how is it loading the .ui file?	15:34
Riddell	you can compile them to code with uic (C++) or pyuic4 (python)	15:34
Riddell	or you can just miss that step and load them directly from the .ui file	15:34
Riddell	personally I don't see any advantage in compiling it, but it might be fractionally faster to run	15:35
kenny	is there a speed difference between either method?	15:35
cheguevara	nosrednaekim, uic.loadUi("editor.ui", widget)	15:35
nosrednaekim	Riddell: ah, ok, I see	15:35
kenny	ok	15:35
nareshov	we imported uic from PyQt4 ?	15:35
Riddell	I forgot we also need an import line	15:35
Riddell	"from PyQt4 import uic"	15:35
Riddell	so that's loading the pyQt module for handling .ui files	15:35
Riddell	uic is the .ui compiler	15:35
nareshov	ah	15:35
Riddell	kenny: try it and see, I doubt it's measurable	15:35
nosrednaekim	ok, great, I guess i'm still kinda stuck in qt3 ;)	15:35
Riddell	any more questions?	15:36
kenny	well, it was quick enough for me, i was just curious	15:36
DreadKnight	Riddell: will you start this all over again? xD	15:36
kenny	DreadKnight: this thing is logged	15:36
nosrednaekim	DreadKnight: read the logs :D	15:36
DreadKnight	i know :)	15:36
kwilliam	yeah	15:36
nareshov	Riddell: how do you read line 8 ?	15:36
DreadKnight	not a coder >_<	15:36
Riddell	it's logged, and there's plenty of time for more guidance after these sessions if you're lost	15:36
kwilliam	what file are we working on? :-)	15:36
Riddell	nareshov: which line is that?	15:36
Riddell	kwilliam: editor.py	15:36
nareshov	uic.loadUi	15:36
Riddell	and editor.ui	15:36
kwilliam	ok	15:37
Riddell	nareshov: uic is the PyQt module we imported yearler	15:37
Riddell	loadUi is a function is has to load the .ui file	15:37
Riddell	Python is object orientated	15:37
nareshov	onto the "widget"?	15:37
nareshov	ok	15:37
Riddell	objects are data structures with variables and methods (functions)	15:37
Riddell	all the Qt widgets are objects	15:38
nareshov	okay	15:38
Riddell	and so it PyQt4.uic which has the method called loadUi	15:38
nareshov	ah	15:38
Daisuke_Laptop	sounds java-y	15:38
Artemis_Fowl	Riddell: seems to be working even though I use Kubuntu. not fully tested though.......	15:38
anand	are you going to talk about jambi (QT-Java)	15:38
Riddell	I should say that a widget is any graphical item on the screen, text boxes, buttons, scrollbars, toolbars, they're all widgets	15:39
Riddell	anand: not today	15:39
Riddell	lets move on to editor2.py	15:39
mihas	ok	15:39
kenny	yep	15:39
Riddell	go back to designer	15:39
Riddell	you should still have the text box we made earlier	15:40
Riddell	drag a PushButton from the toolbox to your widget, below the text box	15:40
Riddell	it should end up like http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor2-designer1.png	15:40
Riddell	and Save As editor2.ui	15:40
Riddell	working?	15:41
Straphka	yur	15:41
cheguevara	aye	15:41
nosrednaekim	k	15:41
Riddell	so now we're going to add an action to our application	15:41
pexi	yes	15:41
Hobbsee	oh, grumble. hal never properly upgrades in a chroot.	15:41
kenny	yep	15:41
Riddell	until now we've been creating widgets but not doing anything with them	15:41
nosrednaekim	Hobbsee: off-topic )	15:41
Riddell	to add an action we need to start making our own objects	15:41
nosrednaekim	;)	15:41
Riddell	so take a look at editor2.py	15:42
Riddell	instead of just making a QWidget and using that	15:42
* Hobbsee sticks a few redback spiders down nosrednaekim's back, and heads in the direction of back		15:42
Riddell	we define our own object called Editor which is based on a QWidget	15:42
Hobbsee	er, bed.	15:42
Riddell	a template for an object is called a class	15:42
RinTinTigger	Hello	15:42
Riddell	class Editor(QWidget):	15:43
Riddell	there's our object template (class)	15:43
Riddell	and it includes a couple of functions	15:43
Riddell	in python there's a special function for each object with the lovely name of __init__(self):	15:43
Riddell	which is run whenever that object is created	15:43
nareshov	like the main() thing?	15:44
Riddell	nareshov: main() is when the application is running (in C/C++), this is a constructor	15:44
kenny	or more like an object constructor from c++?	15:44
nareshov	ah, a constructor thing?	15:44
Riddell	exactly	15:44
iRon	nareshov: like constructors in c++/java ..	15:44
nareshov	got it	15:44
kenny	woo hoo, i got something right!	15:44
Riddell	the first thing it has to do is run the init() for the QWidget	15:44
Riddell	then it loads our .ui file	15:45
Riddell	next, the exciting bit, we tell is what to do when someone clicks the button	15:45
Riddell	this is the Qt signal/slot mechanism	15:45
kwilliam	hurray!	15:45
Riddell	widgets have signals when something interesting happens	15:45
Riddell	you can find them in the Qt docs	15:45
nareshov	okay	15:45
Riddell	and we slot it into a function called save()	15:46
RinTinTigger	Sry....a question...is "Packaging 101" done already	15:46
Riddell	RinTinTigger: 15 minutes	15:46
kwilliam	no	15:46
_nix_	RinTinTigger: nope..	15:46
RinTinTigger	TY guys	15:46
Riddell	next is another method	15:46
stdin	RinTinTigger: see the link in the topic for session times	15:46
Riddell	(method is another name for function, it just means a bunch of lines of code with a name)	15:46
Riddell	the save() method will save the file	15:46
RinTinTigger	i saw...and thee was said they switched time with Pykde4 ...so.....no matter ill wait	15:47
Riddell	here all it's doing is printing out to the command line	15:47
Riddell	RinTinTigger: oh, it's an hour and 15 minutes, sorry	15:47
RinTinTigger	so like 6pm cet	15:47
Riddell	self.textEdit is our textEdit widget	15:47
Riddell	the name textEdit was given by Qt Designer	15:47
Straphka	so Editor gets all the functions defined in the ui file?	15:48
Riddell	and .toPlainText() is a method that QTextEdits have	15:48
Straphka	with the loadUi function I mean	15:48
Riddell	Straphka: it gets the names of objects defined	15:48
Straphka	Riddell: okis	15:48
Riddell	Straphka: the functions themselves, like .toPlainText, are defined by the Qt library	15:48
Straphka	but I get the ui stuff in the editor namespace	15:49
Riddell	you can see all the functions that a QTextEdit has at the all important Qt docs http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/qtextedit.html	15:49
Riddell	Straphka: I don't understand	15:49
Riddell	anyone got it working?	15:50
cheguevara	yeah works fine	15:50
pexi	yes	15:50
meven	yep	15:50
pexi	it's work fine	15:50
kwilliam	yes	15:50
nareshov	works fine	15:50
kenny	yep	15:50
Straphka	Riddell: I mean I get access to everythong defined in the .ui file from the Editor class (as in self.x, where x is defined in .ui)	15:50
aos101	yes	15:50
Straphka	everything*	15:50
Riddell	excellent excellent	15:50
kwilliam	Straphka: yes, i think so	15:50
nosrednaekim	Riddell: eh....I can't type in the text edit.	15:50
txwikinger	Straphka: If you click on the textEdit object in Qt4-designer and look at the property window you will see the name	15:51
nosrednaekim	Riddell: oh wait....duh,my error	15:51
Riddell	Straphka: you do indeed, loadUi() does clever things to create all the objects into the current class	15:51
darx	would the tutorial be archived and if yes where can i access it?	15:51
Straphka	Riddell: that was exactly my question:)	15:51
Riddell	darx: yes, I'll blog about that when it's done	15:51
darx	cool	15:51
nareshov	Riddell: what exactly is putting the text in the textEdit widget onto the console?	15:51
Riddell	nareshov: the save() method there	15:52
nareshov	oh, print	15:52
nareshov	right	15:52
nareshov	got it	15:52
Riddell	and save() is being run by our signal to slot connection	15:52
nareshov	neat	15:52
kenny	are we going to go over saving to a file?	15:52
Riddell	saving to a file is covered in editor3.py	15:52
Riddell	well, opening from a file is	15:53
Straphka	kenny: you could just do open(file, 'w') in python and write it out	15:53
Riddell	but I think we're out of time for that	15:53
kenny	cool, i jumped the gun there	15:53
kenny	Straphka: thanks!	15:53
Riddell	you just need to add an "open" button and use a QFileDialog to select the file	15:53
Riddell	but we're out of time to cover it properly	15:53
nareshov	ah	15:53
kwilliam	are qt3 .ui files compatible with qt4?	15:54
Riddell	kwilliam: not at all	15:54
Riddell	kwilliam: but if you open them in qt4 designer it should convert it	15:54
kwilliam	Riddell: thank you	15:54
Riddell	so that's all we have time for	15:54
Riddell	remember the docs, Qt has the best library docs there are http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/	15:54
Riddell	and KDE has top docs too at api.kde.org	15:55
Straphka	Riddell: whatd the url of your blog?	15:55
Straphka	what's*	15:55
Riddell	and tutorials at techbase.kde.org	15:55
kwilliam	Thanks for the tutorial!	15:55
pexi	Riddell: thank you very much	15:55
nosrednaekim	and there are python translations of those docs too.	15:55
nareshov	Riddell: thanks a lot dude!	15:55
kenny	thanks a bunch, this was very helpful!!	15:55
Riddell	most of our Kubuntu specific programming is done in python	15:55
_nix_	Riddle: thanks a lot.. this will be useful	15:55
bazhang	thank you very much Riddell	15:55
xRaich[o]2x	good work, nice tutorial	15:55
luis_lopez	Ridell: Muchas gracias!	15:55
D_Ed	thanks.	15:55
Riddell	so stick around, and if you want to become an elite free software developer (it's easy really) just ask and we'll find something that needs done	15:55
daskreech	Hooray Riddell :)	15:55
fmo	Riddell:Thx a lot	15:55
aos101	Thanks. Great Tutorial.	15:56
_nix_	boy we still have 5 min here..	15:56
nosrednaekim	thanks... I definately learned something.	15:56
limac	man I missed it!	15:56
limac	:(	15:56
Riddell	the PyKDE packages are very new, still compiling for some platforms	15:56
_nix_	limac: its ok.. there should be downloadable logs somewhere	15:56
xRaich[o]2x	python looks quite nice but i guess i will stick with qt4/C++ ^^	15:56
PJC121	bah, I missed the first part, need your blog addy Riddell :) shame cos you did a great job	15:56
dthacker	tnx Riddell, if we have questions after reading the logs, where is the best place to ask them?	15:56
Riddell	but do give that a shot, techbase.kde.org is a wiki and is in need of tutorials	15:56
Riddell	my blog is on planet.ubuntu.com	15:56
PJC121	thank you	15:56
meven	Riddell: could we extend a little for further question	15:57
limac	_nix: where?	15:57
meven	in another chanel	15:57
Riddell	and quick questions?	15:57
daskreech	limac: Riddell will have a link in his blog	15:57
_nix_	limac: I dunno.. gotta find that out..	15:57
Riddell	we have a couple of minutes	15:57
Riddell	there's a lot of concepts involved in object orientated programming	15:57
Riddell	so if it's new to you can you got lost today, don't worry	15:57
=== kwilliam is now known as kwilliam\|away
meven	more or less i would like to ohow to make a toolbox like real text editor	15:57
nosrednaekim	Riddell: as dthacker asked, where's the best place for future questions?	15:58
nosrednaekim	meven: user ktextedit.	15:58
meven	otherwise i will use my browser no problem :)	15:58
nosrednaekim	*use	15:58
Straphka	Riddell: are there more widgets available than I see in designer?	15:58
Straphka	Riddell: liek the filedialog you mentioned	15:58
nareshov	Riddell: that desktop of yours in the screenshot - is that hardy?	15:58
Riddell	Straphka: plenty http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/classes.html	15:58
DreadKnight	kde4	15:59
Straphka	Riddell: I can add those to designer as well I mean?	15:59
Riddell	QFileDialogue is a full dialogue, you don't embed it in your own widgets, so it's not in designer	15:59
Straphka	Riddell: with the nice icon and all	15:59
=== sudheendra is now known as sudheendra_
=== sudheendra_ is now known as sudheendra
cheguevara	Straphka, thats kde 4	15:59
Riddell	you can ask questions in #kubuntu afterwards or #kde-devel generally	15:59
Riddell	or here if it's Kubuntu related	16:00
Riddell	ok, time up	16:00
Straphka	cheguevara: eh?	16:00
cheguevara	sorry wrong nick lol	16:00
Straphka	oh:)	16:00
Riddell	txwikinger: how ready are you?	16:00
cheguevara	that was to nareshov , its kde4	16:00
txwikinger	I am ready Riddell	16:00
meven	thX Riddell	16:00
nosrednaekim	Thanks Riddell...sorry, can't stick around for the next session	16:00
nosrednaekim	good luck txwikinger	16:00
nareshov	cheguevara: is it the kde4 from the ppa repo for gutsy?	16:00
darx	Has the tut started?	16:00
txwikinger	ok.. let just slide into the next tutorial -- bug triage	16:01
sigma	first session is over	16:01
stdin	This session: kubuntu bug triage with txwikinger	16:01
darx	ok	16:01
cheguevara	nareshov, either that or from hardy, they look exactly the same :P	16:01
Riddell	over to txwikinger	16:01
dholbach	Riddell: well done!	16:01
cheguevara	yeah thanks Riddell	16:01
txwikinger	Ok... let's just start ... please feel free to ask questions at any time	16:01
txwikinger	And stop me if I get to be too fast	16:02
PJC121	okies	16:02
nareshov	sure :}	16:02
fadey	ok	16:02
txwikinger	The first question is: what is bug triage	16:02
cheguevara	Riddell: may wanna change the topic	16:02
txwikinger	The word triage comes from the French word trier which means sorting, sifting (see http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=triage)	16:02
elisiano_	exactly, I was ashamed to ask	16:02
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Bug Triage Tutorial \| Kubuntu Tutorials Day https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay \| please discuss tutorials in #kubuntu while they are running
txwikinger	Commonly it is used in the field of medicine, especially in the context of emergency rooms,	16:02
nareshov	ah	16:03
limac	Riddell: Can you send me a ling to your blog? i mssed it completely! thnx :D	16:03
txwikinger	situations, basically when limited resources must be allocated to a high number of patients.	16:03
darx	yes i know about that	16:03
darx	also triage of symptoms	16:03
Riddell	limac: find it on planet.ubuntu.com or planet.kde.org	16:03
nareshov	limac: it's on planet.ubuntu.com	16:03
txwikinger	there was a disaster missing -- disaster situations	16:03
txwikinger	yes darx	16:03
txwikinger	This in an analogy that also describes what we do with bug-reports.	16:03
nareshov	oh	16:04
_nix_	anyone know where I can grab the irc logs from here?	16:04
limac	Riddlell and nareshove: thx dudes	16:04
txwikinger	When they are submitted, they must be checked if the adhere to a certain standard,	16:04
txwikinger	contain all the necessary information that they can be fixed	16:04
Sanne	_nix_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/	16:04
nareshov	_nix_: press Ctrl+O if you're using Konversation :D	16:04
txwikinger	and be sorted and classified in order to get the right "resource" to work on it.	16:04
_nix_	Sanne, nareshov: thanks..	16:04
txwikinger	In some way someone who triages bugs is something like a facilitator or arbitrator.	16:05
txwikinger	You work with the reporter in order to retrieve as much information as possible.	16:05
john	nareshov: I missed what Ctrl-O is for	16:05
txwikinger	You also work with the developers for kubuntu and ubuntu	16:05
PJC121	txwikinger: where do we find the reporter? silly question I know...	16:06
txwikinger	as well as upstream distributions like KDE and debian and others	16:06
blueyed	PJC121: in the bug report.. its the one who reported it :)	16:06
raphink	hi guys	16:06
txwikinger	PJC you can find them in the bug report	16:06
kwilliam\|away	txwikinger: so we're talking Kubuntu and general KDE bugs?	16:06
daskreech	txwikinger: reported bugs in general	16:06
=== kwilliam\|away is now known as kwilliam
txwikinger	kwilliam\|away: Well both	16:06
txwikinger	Any report that might be reported against Kubuntu	16:07
PJC121	i see, I thought you meant a reporter as in something that saves error messages / codes on our system, oops :)	16:07
txwikinger	this includes often problems that are really KDE problems	16:07
txwikinger	yes PJC121	16:07
limac	where in planet.kde.org?	16:08
txwikinger	So the bug triage process helps to provide the information or finding out what information is needed.	16:08
Riddell	limac: -> #kubuntu	16:08
txwikinger	Due to the fact that all of this concerns people it is very important that bug triage is done with a lot of patience and humility.	16:08
txwikinger	There are sometimes different interests that need to be mitigated when decisions are made,	16:08
txwikinger	and it is always the best to be as polite as possible to everybody around	16:09
txwikinger	(see also Ubuntu CoC https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1)	16:09
txwikinger	Basically two sets of skills are needed	16:09
txwikinger	Skills to deal with people	16:09
txwikinger	and some technical skills that help to deal with the reports themselves	16:10
elisiano_	txwikinger: all in one person? :)	16:10
PJC121	lol	16:10
txwikinger	well hopefully :D	16:10
elisiano_	or there are some PRs and some tech guys?	16:10
txwikinger	elisiano_:	16:11
kwilliam	elisiano: I think you need people-minded geeks	16:11
txwikinger	I think people have strength and weaknesses, but they can work on both those skill sets :)	16:11
txwikinger	The bug triage happens on launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/	16:11
txwikinger	In order to be able to triage bugs effectively, you must have an account on launchpad.	16:11
PJC121	bookmarked	16:12
DFJA	How best do you go about figuring out if a bug a kubuntu-specific, or upstream?	16:12
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
txwikinger	ok... lets go directly to the triage process	16:12
txwikinger	There are different elements to triaging bugs	16:12
txwikinger	one of them is the cleaning up of the reports	16:12
txwikinger	Bugs are often submitted by reporters that do not understand fully the process.	16:13
txwikinger	On the other hand, the people working with the bugs need efficient access to the information.	16:13
txwikinger	Therefore it can be very important to clean up the bugs summary to soemthing that is meaningful	16:13
txwikinger	that in a list of reports someone already understand the main issue of every report in the list.	16:13
txwikinger	It can also be helpful if certain important information is added to the description of the report,	16:14
txwikinger	since this is the first thing after the summary one would read.	16:14
txwikinger	Part of this is collecting more information about a problem	16:14
txwikinger	The goal is to have enough information to reproduce the problem	16:15
txwikinger	This is in my opinion the most important step of bug triage.	16:15
kwilliam	what if its hardware related?	16:15
kwilliam	e.g. specific video cards	16:15
PJC121	do you have an example problem txwikinger?	16:15
txwikinger	That makes it sometimes tricky kwilliam	16:15
txwikinger	yes.. I have one in a minute	16:15
PJC121	ok :)	16:15
txwikinger	kwilliam.. hopefully others have the same hardware	16:16
kwilliam	txwikinger: ok	16:16
txwikinger	or it has to be described very well and tested by the reporter when the fix is there	16:16
daskreec1	Or different hardware as the cse might be :)	16:16
txwikinger	In an ideal world, a bug report has a description that allows anybody following it to immediately reproduce the bug.	16:16
txwikinger	That is not always possible, but a good target.	16:16
txwikinger	It is good practice to see if the description given is sufficient to reproduce or see the problem and if necessary add additional information if the problem is found.	16:17
txwikinger	(Example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979)	16:17
ubotu	Launchpad bug 102979 in ubiquity "[kde-ui] next button does not respond to keyboard" [Undecided,Confirmed]	16:17
txwikinger	this is a good example	16:17
txwikinger	The report was submitted and is already very good and accurate	16:17
txwikinger	However, when I tested it, I found a workaround and therefore valuable information for the developer to fix it	16:18
txwikinger	If you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979/comments/2,	16:18
ubotu	Launchpad bug 102979 in ubiquity "[kde-ui] next button does not respond to keyboard" [Undecided,Confirmed]	16:18
txwikinger	I had gone through the steps in the description and found actually a workaround for the problem.	16:18
txwikinger	I have added this information and confirmed that there is really a problem, that anybody can reproduce.	16:18
txwikinger	Often this steps includes to ask the right questions to the submitter that allows them to give more accurate information that is needed.	16:18
dthacker	txwikinger: you could use one I did this morning and tell me what else I should have done? 175684	16:19
txwikinger	bug 175684	16:19
ubotu	Launchpad bug 175684 in dolphin "dolphin does not keep selected file on dir list update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175684	16:19
txwikinger	well, I would test it if I can 1) reproduce it	16:20
dthacker	I confirmed with a test	16:20
kwilliam	dthacker: I can try running kde4daily	16:20
txwikinger	secondly, I would go a little bit out of the scope to see what similar things do	16:20
cheguevara	i am sure that bug is true actually	16:20
cheguevara	lets see in kde 4	16:20
txwikinger	what happens when you push a different button, icon etc...	16:21
txwikinger	Get a little broader picture	16:21
cheguevara	yep same in kde 4	16:21
dthacker	so perhaps, what happens if a selected file is deleted, updated etc	16:21
txwikinger	If it gives good information for the developer	16:21
txwikinger	yes that are good ideas	16:21
txwikinger	Often it is just "playing" a little around with it	16:21
txwikinger	ok lets move on	16:22
txwikinger	Now we want to sort the bugs	16:22
wolfger	now dolphin has two packages, right? "dolphin" and "d3lphin"?	16:22
txwikinger	Often there is no package assigned or the wrong package	16:22
txwikinger	we want to correct that as soon as we know which package is the right one	16:22
txwikinger	This allows the right people to look at the bugs. Here are good instructions on how to find the right package to assigne a bug to:	16:23
txwikinger	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage	16:23
txwikinger	Furthermore we want to assign the right state to the report	16:23
txwikinger	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-6e435bd3f0413458778d4688ea2f4983e90e6ab4 gives an overwiew of the different states a report can have. For the triage, the essential states are New, Incomplete, Confirmed and Invalid.	16:23
thefoxx	hello	16:24
txwikinger	Every report start with the state New. When somebody starts to triage it and more information is necessary it will be set in the state incomplete until all the information is in the report.	16:24
kwilliam	dthacker: i can't reproduce it. chat after this panel over?	16:24
txwikinger	When all the information is in the report and the bug can be reproduced it will be set to the state Confirmed.	16:24
txwikinger	A lot of reports will turn out either not to be bugs, or it is impossible to collect the necessary information that the report has a positive effect, i.e really helps to solve a problem.	16:24
txwikinger	Sometimes reporters will not respond for request for the information needed, and it is not feasible or possible to recreate it yourself. In these cases the state will be changed to invalid.	16:24
txwikinger	With all those state changes always keep in mind the consequences. We do not want to unnecessarily mark reports invalid because of laziness.	16:25
wolfger	what if the reporter provides the information, but you still can't recreate?	16:25
txwikinger	A report might contain crucial information to solve a problem, sometimes not understood to the person that triages it.	16:25
txwikinger	well.. hopefully someone can	16:25
txwikinger	Otherwise it is very possible that it is an issue rather related to the particular user/install/configuration that a general bug	16:26
txwikinger	Therefore, we do not close report lightly in this way. We always want to make sure the report has all the necessary information to be set for the next state.	16:26
txwikinger	One issue are always duplicates	16:26
txwikinger	While reporters are encouraged to first look for similar or identical problems in the bug tracker, it is inevidable that we get a lot of duplicate reports. Therefore a very important step during the information collection is to see if there is already another report. If this is the case, the report is linked to the original report (more here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-170e00a7154fcfc87f0fc50f65bba9cff7ab27fe)	16:27
txwikinger	If the problem is a general problem i.e KDE we also want to report it upstream	16:27
txwikinger	We are working very close with the upstream distros and it is a mutual benefit for everybody to get bug fixes introduced as high upstream as possible. For Kubuntu KDE is in particular of interest. Here is an example of this https://bugs.launchpad.net/kdebase/+bug/96151	16:27
ubotu	Launchpad bug 96151 in kdebase "kcmclock does not change to correct location" [Undecided,Confirmed]	16:27
txwikinger	In such cases you either find an already existing report in the upstream bugtracker and add it to the report, or you create a new report in the upstream bug tracker and add that one. Here are the instructions how to do this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#head-ab0eb9d7731fa877b5fc866eedc4c312dab50ee7	16:28
txwikinger	Basically you choose the upstream project (KDE in this case) an add the url to the particular bug in their tracker. LP will then update periodically the state of the report in the upstream tracker.	16:28
txwikinger	One very good help in the tasks of bug triage are standard answers	16:28
txwikinger	Here are lots of such responses for various situations: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses	16:29
txwikinger	In particular I would like to raise the attention for this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#head-6ee6466fdaac8c81274185f0316afd794d2ee0b6 This can be used when the reporter does not responds (usually within a month) to the requests for more information and the existing information does not help to reproduce the problem.	16:29
txwikinger	Ok.. the time is already up	16:29
xRaich[o]2x	thanks for the tutorial	16:30
txwikinger	Always remember that we are working here in a team. Therefore, we help each other. It is always good to ask questions if you are not sure how to proceed. Even for the most seasoned people it can be in tricky cases very helpful to have a second opinion. So if your are not sure about something ask somebody. I am often around on the IRC channels as txwikinger or txwikinger2 (when I am at work). Feel free to see me if I can help you.	16:30
PJC121	thank you for your time txwikinger, helped me get started on how to start bug reporting, gj, ty	16:30
kwilliam	so if we have launchpad accounts...	16:30
john	thanks txwikinger	16:30
dthacker	kwilliam: yes, ping me in #kubuntu-offtopic	16:30
Riddell	there's lots of Kubuntu bug reports, many of them don't get an answer	16:30
txwikinger	The channel for the bug is #ubuntu-bugs	16:30
Riddell	so help is always needed with bug triage	16:30
txwikinger	ok Riddell you want to take over again?	16:31
xRaich[o]2x	now comes the fun part ^^	16:31
dthacker	Is there a way to create a URL that will pull all open bugs that have to do with Kubuntu?	16:31
Riddell	could do, anyone want to learn about bzr?	16:31
thefoxx	yes me	16:31
dthacker	me	16:31
xRaich[o]2x	sure thing :)	16:31
wolfger	yes please	16:31
PJC121	go go go :)	16:31
thefoxx	I'm using svn right now and want to learn something about bzr ;)	16:31
cheguevara	thanks txwikinger	16:31
wolfger	i've used bzr and I want to learn about svn	16:32
egonw	was using git-svn, but doing the same with bzr sounds interesting	16:32
mzungu	please	16:32
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Bzr Tutorial \| Kubuntu Tutorials Day https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay \| please discuss tutorials in #kubuntu while they are running
Riddell	apt-get install bzr	16:32
Fu86	I like SVN but i am open for new stuff :)	16:32
kwilliam	is bzr for advanced developers? i've never used svn	16:32
Riddell	is always a good start	16:32
Riddell	bzr is for everyone	16:32
iRon	Riddell: bzr is more like svn or mercurial (git) ?	16:32
Riddell	bzr, or more properly Bazaar is the world best revision control system	16:33
thefoxx	is there a way to sync between svn and bzr? when I develop something with eclipse I want to use it's nice svn integration	16:33
Riddell	hang on, questions in a bit	16:33
cheguevara	bzr-svn	16:33
Riddell	it keeps track of your files	16:33
Riddell	so if you make a mistake you can go back a look at what happened	16:33
Riddell	unlike svn or cvs, it's very easy to branch	16:34
DreadKnight	is there a native QT bzr browser?	16:34
Riddell	so if you don't have access to the svn archive	16:34
Riddell	or if you're doing something at all experimental	16:34
Riddell	you can just branch	16:34
Riddell	do your work in the branch	16:34
Riddell	and merge back later	16:34
Riddell	bzr has the best merging out of any revision control system	16:34
Riddell	they're very proud of how well it works	16:34
Riddell	but there's more!	16:34
limac	so when r we beginning?	16:34
cheguevara	DreadKnight, may be we should all write one with your brand new pyqt knowledge :P	16:34
thefoxx	is there any gui?	16:35
Riddell	other revision control systems need their own servers set up	16:35
=== Ice\|away is now known as Iceslide
cheguevara	bzr-gtk	16:35
Riddell	but bzr is super easy to get started	16:35
thefoxx	for the first steps I think it would be easyer	16:35
thefoxx	thx	16:35
DreadKnight	cheguevara: i'm not actually a programer :) but it sounds good	16:35
Riddell	to get started just make a new directory	16:35
Riddell	mkdir files	16:35
Riddell	cd file	16:35
Riddell	cd files rather	16:35
DreadKnight	don't like to use the gtk one (olive i think it's called)	16:35
limac	any specific name?	16:35
Riddell	and bzr init	16:35
Riddell	then save a file in that directory	16:35
Riddell	echo hello > myfile	16:36
Riddell	add it to the repo	16:36
Riddell	bzr add myfile	16:36
Riddell	and finally commit it	16:36
Riddell	bzr commit	16:36
Riddell	it'll ask you for a commit message, so you just say "inital commit"	16:36
Riddell	now bzr works easily off your local hard disk	16:37
cheguevara	Committed revision 1.	16:37
Riddell	excellent, gold star to cheguevara	16:37
cheguevara	:P	16:37
Riddell	but it can also work off any network system, like a web server	16:37
thefoxx	works here too, it's easy but right now same as svn ;)	16:37
DreadKnight	Riddell: want to menthor me to make a pykde bzr GUI ? xD	16:37
Riddell	so you can just copy that directory to a web server	16:37
Riddell	and now anyone can get hold of your revision control	16:38
Riddell	we use bzr for the kubuntu.org website	16:38
Riddell	I edit the files directly on the server	16:38
thefoxx	hm sorry no not really for svn you need an extern directory for svn repository...	16:38
thefoxx	nice	16:38
Riddell	and bzr commit after any changes I made	16:38
egonw	Riddell: doesn't that require some apache settings changed?	16:38
Riddell	now if this was svn, only I can do anything with it	16:38
Riddell	egonw: nope	16:38
Riddell	it works off any web server	16:38
Riddell	no changes needed	16:38
egonw	mmm, sounds good :)	16:38
Riddell	or smb, or local hard disk, or ftp, whatever	16:39
Riddell	sftp too	16:39
elisiano_	I don't get it	16:39
elisiano_	how?	16:39
cheguevara	magic	16:39
Riddell	there's a hidden .bzr directory with all the meta data	16:39
Riddell	that's what gets made with bzr init	16:39
Riddell	unlike subversion, it's only one .bzr directory per archive	16:39
Riddell	not one per directory	16:39
Riddell	so anyone can do bzr branch http://kubuntu.org	16:40
Fu86	do I need a physical copy of the directory to work on or is there a "checkout"-feature?	16:40
Riddell	that'll probably take a few minutes to run	16:40
Riddell	but then anyone can make changes to the files	16:40
Riddell	you can then do bzr diff and send me the patch	16:40
Riddell	or you can put it on a web server yourself and I can do bzr merge http://your.web.server.com/~me/	16:41
wolfger	Format <RepositoryFormat6> for http://kubuntu.org/.bzr/ is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance	16:41
Riddell	hah, that server has an old bzr version on it	16:41
thefoxx	Riddell, it's nice that you can do branch kubuntu.org but if I dont want that, if I want to use a "private" archive - can I do commit and update like with svn but don't init a own repository? dont know wether you understand waht I mean...	16:41
Riddell	bzr is a fast moving project, but it has always remained backwards compatible	16:41
Riddell	thefoxx: yes you can	16:42
Riddell	branches do take time, you don't always need to do it	16:42
Riddell	so you can also just checkout	16:42
elisiano_	omg, I'm downloading the kubuntu.org branch	16:42
Riddell	which is what svn users are used to	16:42
thefoxx	sounds nice...	16:42
thefoxx	and thats about acl?	16:42
thefoxx	*whats	16:42
Riddell	for example	16:42
Riddell	we host some of our packaging in bzr	16:42
Riddell	on launchpad	16:43
Riddell	here's the webpage for our amarok packaging	16:43
Riddell	https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian	16:43
Riddell	sorry https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian to non-beta testers	16:43
Riddell	that'll tell you that you can do bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian	16:43
Riddell	but for those of us lucky enough to be in kubuntu-members	16:43
Riddell	we can do bzr checkout	16:44
Riddell	and commit back directly	16:44
Riddell	there's no access control list, access is just governed by the permissions of the server its on	16:44
Riddell	or local file system	16:44
Riddell	now, I need a volunteer!	16:44
thefoxx	can I use apache htaccess to protect it?	16:44
nareshov	me	16:45
nareshov	volunteers	16:45
Riddell	nareshov: please register a project for us on launchpad https://code.launchpad.net/projects/+new	16:45
Riddell	call it kubuntu-tutorial say	16:45
Riddell	thefoxx: http is read only, so nobody can commit to it	16:45
nareshov	okay	16:45
Fu86	do it, do it! :D	16:46
Riddell	thefoxx: you can use sftp (ssh) for read/write archives, and then access it just who can write to the files	16:46
thefoxx	hm yes... logical	16:46
Riddell	now we're all going to upload branches to launchpad	16:46
thefoxx	okay I think I understand - sounds nic	16:46
thefoxx	e	16:46
Riddell	launchpad is a great place to host your bzr branches	16:46
nareshov	done	16:47
Riddell	but as I say, you can host it on any server	16:47
nareshov	https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-tutorial	16:47
thefoxx	but in my opinion it makes acl a bit more difficult but easyer to understand	16:47
Riddell	unlike Source Forge you don't need to ask to create a project	16:47
Riddell	anyone can make a project at any time and you can host any free software code there	16:47
Riddell	thanks nareshov	16:47
Riddell	if you have your bzr archives you can now push your code to launchpad	16:48
k_william	Riddell: that's awesome	16:48
ropiku	Riddell, ssh is the only way to rw ? That means that every commiter must have a ssh account ?	16:48
elisiano_	so in nareshov projects how do we retrieve the branch?	16:48
elisiano_	project*	16:48
Riddell	bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/<projectname>/<branch-name>	16:49
Riddell	you'll need an account on launchpad	16:49
Riddell	and you'll need your ssh key registered on launchpad	16:49
nareshov	hmm	16:49
DreadKnight	nice	16:50
Riddell	if you don't have an ssh key make one with ssh-keygen	16:50
Riddell	and follow the prompts	16:50
Riddell	then paste the ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub in launchpad	16:50
Riddell	https://launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/+editsshkeys	16:51
wolfger	error on the push	16:51
wolfger	Unable to import paramiko (required for sftp support): No module named paramiko	16:51
Riddell	then bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/kubuntu-tutorial/mybranch	16:51
Riddell	sudo apt-get install python-paramiko	16:51
Riddell	wolfger: ^^	16:51
ropiku	so I do a init, commit something then push ?	16:51
Riddell	paramiko is needed for sftp access	16:51
Riddell	ropiku: yes	16:51
mzungu	Riddell, what would be the best way for a small group, geographically separated, to work with bzr privately - each on his own branch - how then to sync?	16:52
Riddell	mzungu: you can also register teams on launchpad	16:53
Riddell	then add the people to that team and push to a team branch	16:53
Riddell	just push to ~myteam	16:53
Riddell	which is what we do with the kubuntu packaging I showed earlier	16:53
wolfger	how to verify RSA key fingerprint of bazaar.launchpad.net?	16:53
Riddell	wolfger: just accept it	16:53
Riddell	worry if it changes	16:53
mzungu	ok - but for private code?	16:53
Riddell	so then anyone in the team can checkout and commit back (or branch as anyone outside the team can do)	16:54
limac	Riddell: what's sftp?	16:54
nareshov	ssh+ftp :P	16:54
DreadKnight	secure ftp?	16:54
Riddell	mzungu: on non public code you can just do it on a local machine you have ssh access to	16:54
Riddell	mzungu: and store it in a group writable directory	16:54
RinTinTigger	packing 101 on now?	16:54
wolfger	Permission denied (publickey).	16:54
mzungu	ok - thanks	16:54
Riddell	RinTinTigger: 5 minutes	16:54
Riddell	wolfger: have you uploaded your ssh key to launchpad	16:54
nareshov	wolfger: did you import your key?	16:55
limac	but whut's ftp?	16:55
DreadKnight	file transfer protocol	16:55
limac	ah!	16:55
wolfger	I have 1 OpenPGP key and one SSH key on Launchpad	16:55
Riddell	if we now look at https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-tutorial/	16:55
limac	so whut's exactly the purpose of bzr?	16:55
Riddell	we can see there's a branch there	16:55
wolfger	maybe my SSH key is from my (non-existant) Feisty install?	16:56
thefoxx	which python module provides question_dialog ?	16:56
DreadKnight	limac: versioning system, used for software development	16:56
dholbach	wolfger: best to double check	16:56
ropiku	weird, Launchpad user doesn't have a registered SSH key	16:56
Riddell	gold star to nareshov	16:56
thefoxx	it should be dialog as I see but it's not included in python dialog package...	16:56
nareshov	yay :D	16:56
thefoxx	yes, dialog, but not question_dialog	16:56
limac	DreadKnight: thx dude and wat about svn?	16:56
Riddell	so now we can all branch nareshov's code and edit it	16:56
Riddell	then he can merge back our changes if he likes them	16:56
Riddell	(actually it'll take a minute for launchpad to sync the branch)	16:57
Riddell	ok, I did promise branching from svn	16:57
ropiku	I imported my key (SSH public key added.) and pushed into sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ropiku/kubuntu-tutorial/ropiku-branch	16:57
DreadKnight	limac: bzr is somewhat better ;)	16:57
Riddell	there's two ways to do that	16:57
Riddell	you can do it in launchpad	16:57
limac	but wat is svn?	16:57
Riddell	svn is subversion	16:58
Riddell	it's an older alternative to bzr	16:58
limac	ok! :)	16:58
Riddell	used by KDE, Gnome and many others	16:58
Riddell	we have an import of amarok in launchpad at https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/amarok/trunk	16:58
Riddell	so if you don't have a KDE subversion account you can just branch that and edit the code	16:58
Riddell	then send back your patches	16:58
thefoxx	did anyone uses bzr-svn ?	16:58
nareshov	ah	16:58
Riddell	the second way to branch svn is with bzr-svn	16:58
limac	and is there going to be any packaging tutorials today?	16:58
Riddell	apt-get install bzr-svn	16:58
Riddell	and branch it locally on your own system	16:59
RinTinTigger	2 mins	16:59
ropiku	can someone help me a bit, please :D	16:59
dholbach	limac: read the topic and check out the link	16:59
Riddell	this has the nifty way of being able to commit changes back directly	16:59
Riddell	so now we can branch the debian packaging for some KDE related libraries for example	16:59
Riddell	bzr branch svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-kde/krap	16:59
thefoxx	does bzr svn allows to permanently sinc svn and bzr?	16:59
Riddell	unfortunately there's a memory leak in bzr-svn	17:00
Riddell	so importing from KDE using it will kill your system unless you stop it and restart after every 1000 commits it scans	17:00
nareshov	ooh	17:00
Riddell	but hopefully that will be fixed soon and people without KDE svn account, or people doing experimental work can branch KDE apps and edit	17:00
RinTinTigger	is GNOME better then KDE	17:00
RinTinTigger	?	17:00
Riddell	RinTinTigger: no flames please	17:01
RinTinTigger	sry	17:01
Riddell	ok, we're out of time	17:01
elisiano_	RinTinTigger: are you trying to flame? :D	17:01
Riddell	jpatrick: are you here?	17:01
jpatrick	Riddell: yep	17:01
dholbach	rock and roll - thank Riddell for another great session	17:01
RinTinTigger	elisiano:no	17:01
Riddell	please ask me questions in #kubuntu about the bzr tutorial	17:01
xRaich[o]2x	Riddell: thanks for the tutorial :)	17:01
Riddell	or ask on #bzr	17:01
jpatrick	Evening everyone, by the end of this hour we should have some .deb files laying around. :)	17:01
dholbach	s/thanks/thank	17:01
limac	Riddell: thx dude u helped us a lot! :D	17:01
RinTinTigger	:D	17:01
dholbach	rock on jpatrick	17:01
Riddell	and watch out for Bazaar 1.0 coming very soon	17:01
nareshov	thanks a lot Riddell	17:01
RinTinTigger	thanks Riddel	17:01
RinTinTigger	L	17:01
thefoxx	thanks	17:02
jpatrick	For this you'll need to have the "pbuilder devscripts debootstrap fakeroot lintian" packages installed.	17:02
gourgi	thanks :D	17:02
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Packaging 101 \| Kubuntu Tutorials Day https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay \| please discuss tutorials in #kubuntu while they are running
mzungu	many thanks, Riddell	17:02
limac	hello, jpatrick!	17:02
limac	thanks a lot Riddell!	17:02
jpatrick	I've prepared a debian/ dir template for you all: "wget http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tmp.tar.gz" - this contains the base of all the necessary files for making a Debian package.	17:02
jpatrick	I've spent some time looking for something to package and I eventually found kraft, which we'll package!	17:02
cheguevara	thanks Riddell	17:02
jpatrick	And while we look at each file in the tar.gz I'll explain bit by bit how to make the package.	17:02
Fu86	404 :(	17:03
cheguevara	can we have a prize for the best package :P	17:03
abhidg	404 here too :(	17:03
thefoxx	404	17:03
cheguevara	yeah jpatrick 404	17:03
gourgi	404	17:03
RinTinTigger	tried to copy the link instead of clicking ^^	17:03
jpatrick	looks like ubuntuwire is dead.	17:03
gourgi	lol	17:03
cheguevara	lol	17:03
jpatrick	"wget http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tem.tar.gz"	17:03
nareshov	lol	17:03
RinTinTigger	:D	17:03
cheguevara	perfect timing	17:03
cheguevara	ye that works	17:04
jpatrick	make sure to put everything into a new dir	17:04
RinTinTigger	yea	17:04
jpatrick	Let's get the kraft sources: wget http://downloads.sourceforge.net/kraft/kraft-0.20.tar.bz2	17:04
stdin	jpatrick: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tem.tar.gz :)	17:04
stdin	jpatrick: screwy file names	17:04
jpatrick	Now first of all that source is in .tar.bz2 format, in Ubuntu and Debian only source packages of .tar.gz format are accepted. So we have to first unbunzip it and tar it.	17:04
jpatrick	Debian source packages have the format: package_x.yy.orig.tar.gz so let's rename our new .tar.gz to that: kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz.	17:05
jpatrick	We now leave our new tar.gz to one side and make a new directory in our source: debian/. This is where we will make our only changes to the source.	17:05
jpatrick	Basically we can copy and paste the files from the template tar into to debian/. And make the necessary changes to the files, let's do this one by one.	17:05
DreadKnight	jpatrick: untar first?	17:05
jpatrick	DreadKnight: yep	17:06
DreadKnight	:)	17:06
jpatrick	First debian/changelog: this is where changes to the Debian packaging are noted. Everything should be noted (we have debdiffs to prove otherwise).	17:06
jpatrick	everyone ok?	17:06
dthacker	kik	17:06
jpatrick	The first line should have a format of: packageName (x.yy-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low - -0.. because it does not exist in Debian (who version their new packages -1).	17:06
abhidg	is there any proper format for a changelog?	17:06
Fu86	slow down please :)	17:07
DreadKnight	changelog is a folder?	17:07
limac	yeah!	17:07
wolfger	I'm stuck on unbzipping	17:07
limac	:D	17:07
jpatrick	abhidg: it's all in the templete dir	17:07
ericthefish	too fast	17:07
* jpatrick waits a while		17:07
DreadKnight	wolfger: kde 3.5: right click on tar, actions, extract here	17:07
cheguevara	tar xjvf kraft-0.20.tar.bz2	17:08
jpatrick	DreadKnight: change log is a simply a text file	17:08
DreadKnight	i see	17:08
cheguevara	then tar czvf kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft-0.20/	17:08
stdin	"bunzip2 kraft-0.20.tar.bz2 ; gzip kraft-0.20.tar; mv kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz"	17:08
jpatrick	^that :)	17:08
nareshov	and tar -cvzf kraft-0.20.orig.tar.gz kraft-0.20/	17:08
limac	how do u unbunzip?	17:08
nareshov	hehe	17:08
cheguevara	limac, tar xjvf kraft-0.20.tar.bz2	17:08
abhidg	tar jxvf <filename>	17:08
DreadKnight	limac: kde 3.5: right click on tar, actions, extract here	17:08
thefoxx	tar xvfj kraft...	17:08
limac	thx	17:09
cheguevara	command line > ark	17:09
dthacker	so at the cli i should copy changelog from debian-tem to debian?	17:09
cheguevara	:P