pleia2running quiteb01:55
pleia2may have meeting at 730 instead ;)01:56
* pleia2 heading home from grocery01:57
scientescool, meeting coming up!01:58
darthrobotMeeting started Mon Jul 16 02:20:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.02:20
darthrobotAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired02:20
pleia2hello california friends :)02:20
pleia2#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12July1502:21
darthrobotTitle: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12July15 - Ubuntu Wiki]02:21
pleia2nothing really on our agenda02:21
pleia2#topic Announcements, comments, brainstorming, anything else02:22
pleia2several folks are at OSCON right now02:23
pleia2I know MarkDude and philipballew went up, and bkerensa and the Oregon team are running an Ubuntu booth :)02:23
pleia2I'll be heading up for just the last couple days02:25
pleia2anyone have anything they want to talk about?02:25
pleia2our last SF Ubuntu Hour was pretty lean, just two of us summertime :)02:25
akkHey, everybody, have fun at OSCON!02:26
pleia2thanks akk!02:26
pleia2in early Septmeber we'll be working with BerkeleyLUG and Partimus on the Solano Stroll again http://www.solanoavenueassn.org/strol.htm02:26
darthrobotTitle: [Solano Stroll street festival & parade |Berkeley & Albany CA]02:26
epsY'know, I haven't heard anything about a Linux Picnic this year.02:27
pleia2eps: it's not happening02:27
pleia2no one reserved the back back in february02:27
epsEek. So, what? At 21, Linux has finally grown up and moved out of its parents basement?02:27
pleia221, maybe the picnic is being held in an undisclosed bar :)02:28
epsIf MarkDude were here, we could probably put together a Geeknic for the date the Linux Picnic would have landed on.02:28
pleia2Alison Chaiken expressed interest in trying to help make it happen next year, so I might throw my hat in for that too02:29
pleia2maybe we can see about roping him in for a geeknic in late august :)02:30
pleia2anyone have any other thoughts?02:30
jyoMt. View Ubuntu Hour is on Thursday, I think.02:31
pleia2ah yes, 3rd thursday :)02:32
pleia2not in the loco team portal yet, but jtatum usually sends out a mail too02:32
pleia2ok, I guess we can wrap things up yet02:35
* eps wants to gripe about the sad state of nVidia proprietary drivers02:35
darthrobotMeeting ended Mon Jul 16 02:36:43 2012 UTC.02:36
darthrobotMinutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2012/ubuntu-us-ca.2012-07-16-02.20.moin.txt02:36
pleia2ok, onward with the griping!02:36
pleia2I don't even know if I'm using my nvidia card on my firewall anymore, I kept switching between it and the intel onboard as one sucked and another worked02:37
eps12.04 "upgraded" to xorg 1.11, but nVidia didn't catch up until about two months later02:37
pleia2(I only use the graphics for basic stuff)02:37
pleia2ah, fun :\02:37
akkI'm sticking to intel lately, though they're making it hard since they're also making chips that have no linux driver.02:38
epsThe usual strategy of backporting fixes doesn't work in cases like this.02:38
epsnVidia's current releases are listed here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html02:38
darthrobotTitle: [Unix Drivers Portal Page]02:38
pleia2my current desktop has some cheap ATI card02:40
pleia2like $20 from newegg02:40
epsnvidia-current in precise _should_ be updated to 295.95, which is the *supported* Long Lived Branch02:40
epsInstead, it's stuck at 295.40. So precise users aren't getting any of the bug fixes.02:40
DarkwingDang, I just missed the meeting...02:40
DarkwingHey everyone... I have a bit of an annoucement that I'll be sending to the ML too.02:41
epsThe Legacy driver for next-most-recent nVidia cards didn't work at all when precise shipped.02:41
DarkwingI'll be stepping down from the leadership position within the Loco.02:41
DarkwingIn a couple weeks I'll be moving to Indiana.02:42
eps173.14.35 is current -- and is used for nvidia-173 in quantal02:42
epsBut precise is stuck at 173.14.30, again depriving users of the vendor's fixes02:43
Darkwinginstall the vesa, purge nvidia, install nvidia and purge vesa02:43
epsThe standard repositories *should* have the supported drivers; you don't want to be told "I'm sorry, we fixed that already."02:45
epsThis gives Ubuntu a bad reputation, and that for us is a marketing problem.02:45
DarkwingYou would think... This has been an issue with repositories in ubuntu for a while.02:45
epsnouveau is *not* an acceptable alternative to the proprietary drivers.02:45
DarkwingNot even close.02:46
epsThere are packages that track upstreams, e.g. Firefox.02:46
Darkwingthis is why I'm happy that my laptop has intel02:46
epsnVidia needs to rise to that level.02:46
Darkwingyes, but an app is different than something that is moduled into the kernel02:47
epsSo what? If you're using proprietary drivers, you have to trust your upstream.02:48
epsIt isn't possible to backport fixes.02:48
epsYou can't ask mainstream users to compile from source, nor point them at PPAs.02:49
DarkwingI agree 110% this is why a rolling release IMO would be better in the long run.02:49
epsI appreciate what Intel does, but it's not reasonable to tell people "you must buy Intel or you aren't welcome at our table."02:50
epsThere are basically only three choices. My experience has been that Intel and nVidia both make products that work. ATI, not so much.02:51
DarkwingYeah, I like what nVidia does is highend but, I perfer intel02:51
epsI also understand there's pushback from the Stallmanists.02:52
epsHardwarewise, I prefer nVidia. I would like to be able to choose Ubuntu, but Ubuntu doesn't seem to want to play nicely with others.02:53
DarkwingThe problem is simple, people are not used to building for the "just users" people02:53
DarkwingLike, the ones who do nothing else other than use it.02:53
epsUbuntu is positioned as an end user product.02:54
DarkwingUntill we start building our mindsets directed toward them... We will have these issues.02:54
DarkwingYes and no.02:54
DarkwingWe are far along with it but, there is still the "give back" mindset02:54
Darkwing** "must give back"02:55
epsNo, we have to be pragmatic here.02:55
epsIf I wanted to be straightjacketed, I'd stick with Apple hardware.02:56
DarkwingI'm not saying that... But, there is an expectation that isn't as good.02:57
epsWhat's next? Treat AMD CPUs as second-class citizens? We wouldn't do that.02:58
epsnVidia's products are widely adopted. If this were something unusual, then you could make the argument that it's too much trouble.03:00
epsI don't want to get into a Coke vs. Pepsi argument. That's for end users to decide for themselves.03:02
epsUbuntu has enough detractors as it is; they don't need to be given any more ammunition.03:03
epsThe bottom line is, we should be building updated packages, testing them, and if they pass muster, those should be going into -updates.03:05
epsI can't think of anything else to add.03:06
DarkwingI'm with ya03:08
epsMaybe you can help revitalize the Indiana Loco?03:13
* pleia2 searches for a portland hotel room03:20
pleia2yeah, already used that ;)03:21
pleia2ones exist, just trying to fine one that's not awful or too painfully far03:22
epsPublic transit is free in downtown Portland. The MAX doesn't suck. www.trimet.org03:25
bkerensapleia2: ;) I have something for you from Jono when you arrive03:26
pleia2bkerensa: ah, the suspense! :)03:27
pleia2have fun tomorrow, good luck with the booth!03:28
scienteswhens the meeting?03:28
pleia2scientes: we already had the meeting03:28
scientesoh damn i missed it again03:28
scienteseps, re: nvidia-current, i even moved to 302 or what-not, and my card was still totally broken, it broke a month before precise release03:29
scientesso i just use nouveau which blows on this card03:29
epsUnfortunately, nVidia's forums are down at the moment.03:30
Darkwingeps: Yeah, I've already been in contact with the co-founders. They are looking forward to turning it over to someone.03:40
bkerensaphilipballew_: sup03:41
bkerensapleia2: have you not found one yet?03:43
bkerensaa hotel?03:43
pleia2bkerensa: I didn't try very hard :) now looking03:44
pleia2there, rooms05:01
pleia2staying near the airport first night, and a hotel downtown for thurs and fri05:02
bkerensapleia2: you come in Wednesday right?05:13
pleia2bkerensa: wednesday night, so I won't really be around until Thursday morning05:15
pleia2(I have work Mon-Wed)05:16
bkerensapleia2: Ping me if you need any directions or such05:16
bkerensaMAX is much easier than BART :P05:16
bkerensaand safer05:16
pleia2thanks :)05:17
bkerensaCabs are usually very expensive05:17
bkerensakoolhead17 paid $30 to go a couple blocks05:18
pleia2I actually have to get to another hotel thursday morning before the conference, so I might just cab it from one hotel to another since I'll have luggage :\05:18
bkerensaTry to get RadioCab05:18
bkerensanot Broadway Cab ever.... they have non-english speaking somali drivers mostly who will take you on a ride05:18
pleia2so that's the one koolhead17 took? :)05:18
bkerensaI think he just took a flat rate one05:19
bkerensaThey have some that are flat rate to downtown05:19
pleia2a cabby in NYC took me for a ride once (during HOPE actually), but I was only out $20 so it wasn't a huge deal coming from Philly where that would have been normal05:22
pleia2I didn't realize until later that I had overpaid05:22
bkerensaheh... I'm local and a Broadway cab took me and my fiancee a city in the wrong direction when we asked to simply go to our local mall... We asked several times for him to pull over so we could call another cab05:23
bkerensain the end it cost us $40+ more05:23
pleia2yuck :(05:23
bkerensaWe switched to Radio Cab after that since they only seem to have english speaking drivers but now we zipcar :)05:24
pleia2philipballew__: I am loling at your tweets (oh my gosh, where are you staying?!)06:00
philipballew__in the getho here at a comfort inn. I was offered weed like 5 times in the block from the light rail to the hotel06:02
philipballew__its like 4 miles from the convention center06:02
philipballew__I really have nothing going on till wednesday so I have just been roaming around Portland but now I came back here and its kinda different then Auburn...06:03
bkerensayeah Mark picked a bad motel06:03
bkerensaanything East of 82nd Avenue is not good for living06:03
philipballew__I told a person on the bus its where I was getting off at, and she looked twice at me, then asked why.06:04
pleia2oh my :)06:05
philipballew__but they have free breakfast!06:05
bkerensaphilipballew_: yeah I told Mark and the Fedora folks but Noooo they didnt want any help from a Local :P06:05
philipballew__Totally gonna get some breakfast tomorrow :)06:05
bkerensaphilipballew_: where?06:06
bkerensaoh at motel?06:06
philipballew__the comfort inn06:06
philipballew__Its free :)06:06
bkerensalikely continental06:06
bkerensaso Donuts and OJ06:06
philipballew__youd think rh would put them up downtown06:06
bkerensaits pretty packed till like Thurs and Friday06:07
bkerensaall the hotels next to OCC are sold out completely right now06:07
philipballew__hum, well the econo lodge  of mlk has room06:07
bkerensawhich is better06:07
bkerensabetter than Koolhead17's econo lodge :P06:08
philipballew__yeah, im not sure what is better06:08
philipballew__that had a jack in the box next to it06:08
philipballew__and since the beef is not real beef, he was able to have some06:09
darthrobot[R: maps.google.com] Title: [Portland Gang Territory - Google Maps]06:09
philipballew__bkerensa, don't worry, Im an og06:09
bkerensaphilipballew_: not real?06:09
bkerensaphilipballew_: yeaaaaah.... I'm not going walking in bad neighborhoods with you again :P06:10
* bkerensa remembers you throwing up gang signs to a car full of African Americans :P06:10
pleia2really, it took me like 1.5 hours to get my hotel situation sorted this late, I got the *last* room in the Sheraton by the airport for wed night06:10
pleia2(and only via hotels.com, their own website was sold out)06:10
bkerensapleia2: its not bad at all06:10
philipballew__bkerensa, I gotta represent my crew06:11
* bkerensa is getting breakfast at OSCON I think06:12
pleia2bkerensa: yeah, I think I did fine hotel wise06:13
pleia2what is the food situation at oscon?06:13
pleia2I actually looked on the site earlier, but it was unclear :)06:13
philipballew__bkerensa,  I have pizza for lunch if anyone needs any06:13
bkerensapleia2: so do you have a pass? and what kind?06:13
pleia2You are registered for 3-Day Pass (Wed-Fri).06:13
pleia2* Lunch (Wed-Thu)06:14
bkerensaso you should be able to get lunch those days06:14
bkerensaand also all parties have food06:14
* pleia2 nods06:14
bkerensaso that covers dinner... at least for me it does generally06:14
bkerensaSpeakers get a lounge that has cold beverages and food all day plus breakfast :)06:14
pleia2I'm more worried about logistics than cost (I should find my own breakfast)06:14
bkerensapleia2: so there are a lot of options within walking distance of the OCC06:15
pleia2that's good :)06:15
bkerensaBurgerville makes pretty decent breakfast and uses all local meat, eggs, cheese, veggies06:16
bkerensaso philipballew_ you know the room that they do CLS in?06:16
bkerensapleia2: are u going to the zoo while here?06:18
pleia2bkerensa: maybe :)06:18
philipballew__i think this whole city is a zoo06:18
bkerensaphilipballew_: you should go ZooBombing06:18
darthrobotTitle: [Zoobomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]06:18
pleia2not actually sure what I'm doing with the friends on Saturday, zoo would be good06:18
pleia2philipballew__: hahah06:18
darthrobotTitle: [Dream of the 90s - Portlandia on IFC - YouTube]06:19
bkerensa^ pleia2 you see that ever?06:19
philipballew__i prefer the dream of the suburbs is alive in Vancouver myself.06:20
bkerensaphilipballew_: =/ The Couv is horrible.... I only go up there to grocery shop06:21
philipballew__I was in that area today, Its has nice people06:22
philipballew__portlandia is nice though06:22
philipballew__PUT A BIRD ON IT!06:22
bkerensaGo by street car06:23
bkerensaKeep portland weird06:23
philipballew__street car?06:24
bkerensaphilipballew_: its a local saying... "Go by street car"06:24
bkerensaphilipballew_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzkEwPZWALA06:25
darthrobotTitle: [Best Marriage Proposal EVER. -Portland Oregon (High Quality) - YouTube]06:25
philipballew__seems nice06:25
philipballew__I dont drive first06:26
philipballew__in fact, when I drove all those people home this morning, that was the first in several weeks06:26
philipballew__I should drive mo often06:26
bkerensaphilipballew_: you drove Mark and his Entourage home?06:27
philipballew__yeah, I was the dd06:27
philipballew__mark was off with someone but I drove everyone else06:28
philipballew__Im pretty sure they have no idea though06:28
philipballew__as they probably were not aware if what was going on06:28
bkerensaohhh I found a sloppy bug :D07:02
epikvisionhey guys, how do you install wordpress in ubuntu?19:09
akkI've never done it, but I would guess: sudo apt-get install wordpress19:11
akkThere is a package for it.19:11
epikvisioni downloaded the .tar.gz package19:11
epikvisionis there a way to install from the desktop?19:11
pleia2if you download the tarball just follow the directions at http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress19:12
darthrobotTitle: [Installing WordPress « WordPress Codex]19:12
pleia2(I don't use the package because I like running the latest version, the package in Ubuntu is an older version + security patches)19:12
akkBut if you're unfamiliar with tar and installing tarballs, you might have better luck by sticking with the Ubuntu package.19:13
pleia2yeah, just read the docs in /usr/share/doc/wordpress/ to properly set it up in Ubuntu19:13
akkUbuntu packages take care of dependencies and often handle minor installation details for you.19:13
akk(on the downside, they're not quite as current, so if you need something cutting edge in the absolute latest WP builds, you might need tha tarball.)19:14
epikvisionI took akk's suggestion and installed wordpress.  If I install the tarball now, will it update the installed package?19:15
akkIt'll most likely install a second completely different version in a different place.19:16
akkAnd maybe set things up so that both of them are running at startup.19:16
epikvisioni'm gonna give the tarball a go.  How do I uninstall?19:16
akkapt-get purge wordpress19:16
akkadd a sudo in front of that19:16
epikvisionfor the tar command, tar -xzvf, what does the x, z, v, and f stand for?19:17
epikvisionjust curious.19:17
epikvisionoh wait!19:18
epikvisionI'll use the man.19:18
pleia2man pages can be hard to parse, but when it comes to looking up what flags mean - yes, you should use the man page :)19:18
akkAnd reading man pages is a good skill to learn.19:19
epikvisionI hear that there are two ways to host a website: either having your own server or using a hosting provider.  What's the benefit of either?19:24
akkHaving your own server: you have control over everything. Using someone else's server: it's not your fault when it breaks (or your job to fix it).19:25
epikvisionguess there's a lot of manual work in owning a server.19:25
akkIt's not that different from the work in a desktop -- either way you have to keep it updated and fix things that break.19:26
akkIt's just a little more stressful with a server, because it HAS to have security updates, and if it breaks, no one can see your website until you fix it.19:26
akk(or you can't read your mail until you fix it, if it's a mail problem)19:26
akkI kept my website on a home server for years, but finally moved it to a hosting place because our DSL would go down when we were traveling19:27
pleia2there are also levels of "hosting provider" - you can get everything from a completely unmanaged server that someone else just physicaly runs (as a physical or virtual machine) where you get root, to a simple web-hosting account where all you get is a wordpress admin login19:27
akkand there's no way to fix that, so it was stress and depression on trips until we could get home and power-cycle the modem or call AT&T or whatever.19:27
* epikvision sees19:29
akkepikvision: If your goal is to learn and play around with server stuff, running your own server is probably the way to go.19:30
epikvisionO.O and buying the server itself?19:30
epikvisionIt would be an interesting experience.19:30
akkIf your goal is to get a real website up that users will be using regularly, then it's worth considering both options.19:30
akkBuying? A server is just a computer -- you can use your desktop, or an old machine you've retired, or whatever.19:31
akkIt's not like you need some special super breed of computer to be a server.19:31
akkOur home server right now is an old netbook we got on ebay for $200 or so ... before that it was a 6-year-old low-power Via board with no case.19:32
akkHere's the old Via machine (though it's no longer serving that domain): http://timocharis.com/doodles/server/index.html19:32
darthrobotTitle: [The Physical Reality Of Timocharis.com]19:32
pleia2aww :)19:33
pleia2"my server hangs on my wall"19:33
akkI was a little sad to give up the "secure server"19:33
akkbut the netbook is a lot faster and a little more power efficient.19:33
akk(We're nuts about power efficiency -- heck, the new machine is probably saving us 7 cents or so per month!!)19:34
akk(obviously it's not about the cost)19:34
scientesakk, i use a sheevaplug as email server19:35
pleia2I keep browsing ARM boards for a low-power option to put in my fiance's colo space, he's got tons of bandwidth but just a little power...most of which is being used up by his giant 1U Xeon server19:35
pleia2so I can have space, if I use hardly any power :)19:36
scientesahh yeah, get something omap w/ sata19:36
scientesor rather marvell w/ sata, like armada chipset19:36
akkWe have a couple of plug computers (Marvell/arm) but don't run any servers off them. They can be kind of a pain to deal with.19:38
scienteswell the armv7 ones are much faster19:38
akkMy last job was at a company that used those, but not as public-facing web servers.19:38
scientesand sata is also neccicary19:38
scientespleia2, you use powertop on the server?19:40
pleia2scientes: I'm not sure if he does19:42
scientesit tells you what processes are waking up the kernel and costing power19:43
pleia2yeah, I've used it before :)19:44
pleia2(mostly on laptops though, until now I haven't worried much about server power consumption since at work we don't have a limit)19:45
scientesyou get a little more info on laptops, through acpi, about current power consumption, that you dont get on most desktops19:46
* pleia2 nods19:46
akkThanks for the reminder, I'd been meaning to do some powertop runs on the new netbook. Ubuntu seems to be getting rather poor battery life there.19:50
akkActually the new powertop in pangolin is a lot harder to read, and no longer gives helpful suggestions. :(19:57
akkBut there seems to be a big problem with the audio codec hwC0D0, whatever that means.19:58
akk7.4W in squeeze, 8.89W in pangolin and toggling the "bad" tuneables doesn't seem to make any difference.20:03
scientesouch ruby 1.8 is eating my battery20:08
scientesanyone know if there is a fix for cruby 1.8?20:08
scientesno battery20:08
akkIt must be ruby running some program - ruby is just a language.20:10
scientesakk, no i looked it up, the interpreter pool for it implamentation of green threads20:10
akkI have no ruby running at all.20:11
scientesyeah this is a server serving up rails20:11
scientesi absolutely need ruby 1.820:11
akkyes, that does kind of need ruby :)20:12
scienteswell ruby1.9 is probably good20:12
scientesbut i need ruby 1.8, cause its legaly rails 2.320:12
akkruby/rails versions used to be a big headache ... not sure if they still are.20:14
akkI remember on ubuntu I used to have to install nearly everything from source, because rails needed gems that ubuntu and debian didn't package.20:14
akk(and people who asked for them to be packaged got rudely insulted in the bug system)20:15
scientesakk, that pretty much how the ruby world works20:24
scienteseven python is generally run that way with virtualenv20:24
* akk gives up and goes back to squeeze, pangolin's powertop isn't giving any helpful suggestions about why pangolin eats so much power20:40
scientesakk, powertop 2 is in unstable, and i managed to compile from source on centos 6.221:11
akkWill powertop 2 bring back some of the things the old powertop used to have?21:13
akkI'm finding this 1.97 a lot less useful than the old one.21:14
akkIt has all these screens, but none of them give the info that the single screen used to.21:14
scientesidk i never used the old one21:22
scientesthe new one segfaults on start on arm21:25
scientesunlike the old one21:25
scientesthere is a patch on the bts21:25
bkerensapleia2: you around?21:26
epikvisionany developers around?21:33
epikvision'cuz I need help trying to fix my first bug.21:33
DonkeyHoteiso you need more specifically developers skilled in the spay/neuter of insects, then21:35
epikvisionhaha, yes21:35
darthrobotTitle: [Bug #1022935 “libpurple0 package description typo” : Bugs : “pidgin” package : Ubuntu]21:36
scientesepikvision, make it just suggest tcl and tk21:51

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