#edubuntu 2006-05-22
<cbx33> well think it's time for bed
<cbx33> nn LaserJock 
<LaserJock> cya cbx33 
<cbx33> you ok for sat 23:00 UTC freeze
<cbx33> on ESA?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> cbx33: as long as you get it done by then ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: around? or going to bed
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i will
<Amaranth> ogra: you sure know how to pick projects :P
<Amaranth> the more i look at the code in willow the sadder i get
<LaserJock> Amaranth: how so? just hard to work with?
<Amaranth> no comments
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you can write bad python code? *shocked* ;)
<Amaranth> def bayesprob(probs):
<Amaranth>     x = probs[0] [2] 
<Amaranth>     y = 1-probs[0] [2] 
<Amaranth>     for prob in probs[1:] :
<Amaranth>         x = x * prob[2] 
<Amaranth>         y = y * (1 - prob[2] )
<Amaranth>     return x/(x + y)
<Amaranth> </flood>
<Amaranth> it's magic!
<Burgwork> looks like about how I would code it
<Burgwork> that is a bad thing
<Burgwork> is willow actively maintained?
<Amaranth> i mean, i'm sure i'll figure out how it works once i dive into it more but jeez
<Amaranth> Burgwork: no idea
<Burgwork> it appears it is, but here is no mailing list that I can find
<Amaranth> the website has no links to old versions, an rcs, etc
<Burgwork> so pretty much it will need to be forked, unless they setup said
<Amaranth> yeah, i'll be maintaining my own fork
<Burgwork> there are also no docs on how to get it going, at least on the website
<Amaranth> oh, the last dated release was 9/29/05
<Amaranth> and that's two releases old
<Burgwork> where is that information from?
<Amaranth> CHANGELOG.txt in the tar.gz
<Burgwork> freshmeat lists nothing
<Burgwork> have we tried to contact the authors?
<Amaranth> ack
<Amaranth> i just realized, none of these files have copyright information
<Burgwork> oh, joy
<Amaranth> they include a gpl.txt file
<Amaranth> but no AUTHORS or anything
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> do they specific what is covered under the gpl?
<Amaranth> not that i can see
<Burgwork> we might also have an issue with the training stuff
<Burgwork> ie, the inclusion of "bad content"
<Burgwork> observe the whole hot coffee mess
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> well, that's how you train it
<Burgwork> yes, but I think we would need to have the training content is a seperate binary, not installed by deafult
<Amaranth> i might have to redo this from scratch...
<Burgwork> the whole filter?
<Amaranth> the whole project
<Amaranth> no authors listed, no copyright info, etc
<Burgwork> ouch
<Burgwork> I would contact the author first
<Burgwork> I suspect it is merely an oversight
<Amaranth> oh, they do have contact info on their website
<LaserJock> that happens quite a bit actually
<Burgwork> userful did it as well
<LaserJock> but usually there is a little more info
<Burgwork> http://www.whsd.k12.pa.us/admin/Technology/techplan/currentplan.py <-- this is who willow was built for
<Burgwork> check out the extension
<Burgwork> they might be a good place to get edubuntu into
<Amaranth> hehe
<Burgwork> wonder if it would pass the "hooker" test
<Burgwork> I just sold to a library whose director lives in Hooker, OK
<Burgwork> she uses that as a good baseline to test filtering against
<Amaranth> kind of hard to make an automatic filter handle that
<Amaranth> that's what whitelisted domains are for
<saugilsr_> sorry to jump into conv... being a newb in this channel.. but why was reason for picking Willow?
<saugilsr_> the reason
<Amaranth> saugilsr_: It uses bayesian filtering.
<Amaranth> Like spam filters, it "learns" what is good and bad based on what you've marked as good/bad in the past.
<Amaranth> I've sent an email to ed@digitallumber.net, hopefully I'll get an answer soon.
<saugilsr_> ok just reading the site now..   but you have to feed it what is bad/good right?
<Amaranth> Although with what I'm probably going to do to this code I could probably pass it off as a completely separate thing anyway. :P
<saugilsr_> Im running dansguardian at work so i'm comparing it to that.
<Burgwork> dansguardian is the big one
<Burgwork> we run that at my company as well
<Burgwork> it works, after a fashion
<Amaranth> saugilsr_: Yeah you have to train it but it also comes somewhat pretrained.
<Amaranth> Mostly to block porn websites.
<saugilsr_> yeah the students now hate me with a passion now that i installed it
<Burgwork> hmm, I wonder if you could reverse train a filter like willow
<Burgwork> so it will only show porn
<Burgwork> Amaranth, what does the .pickle file do?
<Burgwork> ok, there is a nice nautilus bug
<Burgwork> what does dapper say about shockwavefilter.py
<Burgwork> mine says it is html
<Amaranth> html
<Amaranth> because these guys embed HTML in the python files
<Amaranth> so to edit the error messages you have to edit the python code
<Burgwork> oh, joy of joys
<Burgwork> why don't you create a willow product is LP and we can begin tracking bugs in LP
<Burgwork> there is also the hardcoded google domains
<Burgwork> how about adfilter.py
<Burgwork> I see lots of great ideas with a half thought out implementation plan
<Burgwork> Amaranth, there are a whole bunch of stupid things I see here that need to be recording somewhere, like a bug report
<Amaranth> Burgwork: I've got a tomboy note.
<Amaranth> Burgwork: This isn't in ubuntu yet and they don't have a BTS
<Burgwork> we can use launchpad
<Burgwork> it was designed for this sort of thing
<Burgwork> or a wiki page
<Phlosten> hmm
<Phlosten> hey there bimberi 
<bimberi> hi Phlosten :)
<Phlosten> can you possible answer a quick question for me
<bimberi> sure
<Phlosten> still trying to nut out the ltsp
<bimberi> :/
<Phlosten> i have a feeling when the client is requesting IP stuff from the DHCP server on this machine, that the DHCP server is using its own dhcpd.conf file and not the LTSP one,...
<Phlosten> hmm
<Phlosten> wonder where the first line went
<Phlosten> bimberi, can you see the first line of what I just typed?
<bimberi> no
<Phlosten> hmmm, ok
<Phlosten> basically i have two (x2) dhcpd.conf files, one in /etc/dhcp3/ and the other in /etc/ltsp/, how does the server know which one to use?
<bimberi> does 'ps aux | grep dhcp' show you?
<Phlosten> ok, cool, it shows /etc/ltsp in there
<Phlosten> where is that set? 
<Phlosten> still trying to unlearn dos/windows and learn the ins and outs of Linux :)
<bimberi> i'd would say in the init script (/etc/init.d/dhcp3-server ??) or something it calls
<bimberi> :)
<Phlosten> bimberi, I am working on setting up the LTSP on my normal Ubuntu install, and not that edubuntu install I was running the other day
<Phlosten> and my client is stuck at "Loading 192.168.0.1:/ltsp/pxelinux.0"
<Doxedon> is there a help channel?
<bimberi> yes, you and Fujitsu were discussing it yesterday
<Phlosten> i'd like to be able to take both these machines along to the computer group meeting next meeting to show them what LTSP can do
<bimberi> hi Doxedon, ask away, if someone knows they'll answer
<Doxedon> thanks
<Doxedon> don't know if I should be asking here
<Phlosten> Doxedon, we'll soon tell you where to go ;)
<bimberi> lol
<Doxedon> I'm hoping to download the live cd version of Ubuntu - just hoping to see how the OS works, etc.
<Doxedon> but I'm curious as to how the live CD works, will it access all my current files on my hard drive?
<Phlosten> bimberi, i thought I had a problem with my dhcpd.conf file, so I plugged in my edubuntu drive which was doing that bit right to compare that file and they are the same, am running out of places to look :/
<Phlosten> Doxedon, LiveCD will not touch you hard disk files except to mount the disk so you can access the files
<Phlosten> Doxedon, if indeed your hard disk partition is mountable by Ubuntu
<Doxedon> could I download a file and get it to work off livecd?
<bimberi> Doxedon: it won't mount the disk unless you tell it to.  You can even run the LiveCD without a HDD
<Doxedon> okay, got that
<Phlosten> Doxedon, are you wondering whether you can install files while running LiveCD?
<Doxedon> yeah, something on those lines
<Phlosten> Doxedon, it will look like a normal computer system, except the root disk will be in your RAM and not on a Hard Disk Drive. Once you pull the plug everything is gone
* bimberi deletes his partially finished answer - Phlosten's was so good :)
<Phlosten> Doxedon, however in the 6.06 version of the Ubuntu LiveCD there is the option to have it 'persistant' and keep changes files on a USB drive or similar
<Phlosten> however I have not explored the persistant option myself, so I cannot give you much advice beyond that
<Phlosten> firewall... just had a thought....   bimberi, where are the firewall options set? i have been running firestarter and I just remembered that the setup that it configures remains even after the GUI is closed
<Doxedon> what I wanted to do was run a piece of software but really didn't want to install and utilise on a permanent basis just yet
<Doxedon> would that work?
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  if you want to play without having to repartition or anything you can try using something like qemu.  
<saugilsr_> Doxedon: that will emulate a computer.. and when your done playing you can just delete the HD image
<LaserJock> Doxedon: it will work, but once you reboot it will be gone
<bimberi> Phlosten: i don't know iptables very well - 'sudo iptables -L' will show you what is set - idk where to unset them though sorry
<Phlosten> bimberi, groovy, that should help me,...ty
<bimberi> Phlosten: np :)
<Doxedon> with qemu, would I still need to download a linux os?
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  yes.  You can use any ISO.. including a LiveCD if you wanted.  What software are you wanting to try? A package or just the whole OS in general?
<Doxedon> basically I wanted to get a "server" running. Connects people/outputs information in text
<Phlosten> huraaah!
* Phlosten does a little dance
* Phlosten evaluates the next problem :/
<bimberi> Phlosten: some success?
<Phlosten> yeah, firewall blocking needed ports
<Phlosten> the tftp port, and the one needed for 856
<Phlosten> whatever 856 is
<Phlosten> i guessing it is NFS
<Phlosten> bimberi, now I am back at same place I was when I was trying to get the edubuntu one working
<bimberi> Phlosten: 'sudo netstat -plunt' will show you what ports are being listened to and which process has them open
<bimberi> Phlosten: so client boots to a text-mode login prompt?
<Phlosten> yer, and terminal 7? (ctrl-alt-f7) is just flashing cursor
<Phlosten> i am pretty certain it is problem with X config
<Phlosten> its an nvidia based card that only works with vesa driver
<Phlosten> ubuntu tries to set it up with nv instead of vesa though
<Doxedon> im lost with qemu :(
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:   hmm.. most LiveCD's are designed so you can run a Desktop Interface..  not really for running a temporary server..
<Doxedon> so best bet is to download the full install?
<bimberi> Phlosten: hm, i wonder if there's a way to specify the driver 
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  yeah.  I would say..  if your looking to test out a server
<Doxedon> okay, I just have a small concern that if I do it won't detect the drivers
<saugilsr_> Doxedon: if you have a spare partition you can dual boot a machine
<Doxedon> i don't :(
<Doxedon> I read that you could do it on installation?
<Phlosten> bimberi, there should be a way, just working it out
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  yeah you can resize your current partitions.. 
<Doxedon> not create new?
<bimberi> Doxedon: you can test the feasibility with the LiveCD, but it wouldn't be a particularly good solution on any sort of (semi-)permanent basis
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  oh yeah that to..    would this be your first linux install?
<Doxedon> yeah
<saugilsr_> Doxedon:  ok. Download the LiveCD and try that first.
<Phlosten> bimberi, i need to configure an 'lts.conf' file :)
<saugilsr_> Doxedon: that will give you a feel of what your doing
<Doxedon> what sucked was that it stopped at 300 mb :(
<Doxedon> Thanks for all your help
<Phlosten> ooh, syntax error :)
<bimberi> Phlosten: the thrill of the chase :)
<Phlosten> ok, we should have a winner now
<Phlosten> tries again....
<Phlosten> i tell ya what, I am learning heaps...always good :)
<bimberi> absolutely!
<Phlosten> wooo, i have an s login screen
<Phlosten> x
<Phlosten> except I had a typematic rate issue, getting multiple letters each press which made loggin in difficult
<bimberi> Phlosten: i think you're going to know how to solve every LTSP problem by the time you get this working :)
<Phlosten2> huraaah!
<bimberi> Phlosten2: could it be!
<bimberi> it is
<Phlosten2> indeed
* Phlosten2 is very happy
<bimberi> hooray! very well done mate :)
<Phlosten2> although I still need to ctrl-alt-f7 to get login screen
<Phlosten2> but that is a small issue
<Phlosten2> hmmm
<Phlosten2> i opened openoffice from the menu on here, but it opened on the server
<bimberi> what if you log out on the server?
<Phlosten2> ah-ha
<Phlosten2> excellent
<Phlosten2> i obviously need another user account on the server for the client to use
<Phlosten2> brb
<Phlosten> i lurv linux!
<Phlosten> and LTSP rocks too!
<bimberi> :)
<Cyorxamp> is the next dapper Edubuntu still set for June 1st?
<Laser_away> Cyorxamp: yeah, Edubuntu 6.06 will be released on June 1
<Cyorxamp> and thats 'non-flight' ?
<crimsun> flights are milestone codenames, so yes, you can think of it as "final"
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> 4hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, how goes the willow hacking?
<Amaranth> stalled
<Amaranth> some license issues
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, the willow.py contains the gpl
<Amaranth> yeah, but i'm not comfortable with the other files not having it
<Burgundavia> or a general licensing file, ya
<Amaranth> it has a gpl.txt
<Burgundavia> plus the bad content is clearly not gpl
<Amaranth> i think it just a pickled list of words
<Burgundavia> the .pickle file?
<Amaranth> wait, yeah
<Burgundavia> seems to me that the .pickle file would scale very badly
<Amaranth> those aren't right
<Amaranth> it's got the real webpages
<Amaranth> i never noticed that before
<Amaranth> i hope that's not required for the filter to be trained
<Burgundavia> I think it is
<Burgundavia> hence the issue I raised earlier
<Amaranth> basically it looks like i'm writing this from scratch
<Burgundavia> "hot coffee" Edubuntu anyone?
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> most of the code is "magic" anyway
<Amaranth> and the basic ideas aren't that hard
<Burgundavia> plus there are truly stupid hardcoded things in there
<Amaranth> if i can't get a full bayesian system implemented i can at least do some semantic weighting
<Burgundavia> http://rit.mellon.org/awards/ <- we should put Edubuntu up for this
<Amaranth> haha, they run a default plone template
<Burgundavia> so does the fsf
<Amaranth> which the plone guys seemingly got from a guy i know
<Burgundavia> to be fair, it is not as bad as some defaults
<jsgotangco> IT award?
<LaserJock> hmm, this might be a stupid question but what is the difference between plone and a wiki ?
<jsgotangco> plone is not open for editing by default?
<Burgundavia> a wiki is collaborative way to work on stuff
<Burgundavia> plone is about presenting and ordering stuff
<Burgundavia> there is overlap, as the wiki needs to display that stuff and thus needs to present and order it too
<saugilsr_> Amaranth:  if your going to code it from scratch.. id recommend a 'feature' to block by file extention.. ie .dll  .exe  .bat..  not user if that can be a learned trate
<Amaranth> saugilsr_: sounds like a good idea
<Burgundavia> well, ideally, it could be built in an iptables style
<jsgotangco> strangely, the wallpaper blends with red
<Burgundavia> you have rules you can hook up in any order
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: have you seen the wallpaper?
<jsgotangco> the artist forgot new zeland
<jsgotangco> he must have mistaken it with tasmania
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: the chalkboard one?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> anybody know how to add a comment to a doc in OO.o?
<Amaranth> would it be goofy to rot13 the bad domain and url lists so they don't show up in a search?
<Burgundavia> what sort of search?
<Burgundavia> rot13ing them reduces readability
<Amaranth> someone searching for bad things with, say, locate
<Burgundavia> what does dansguardian do?
<Amaranth> dunno, but it uses a naive filter
<Amaranth> at least according to the website
<Amaranth> if a certain word is in a site it's automatically marked as spam
<Burgundavia> naive?
<Amaranth> instead of being weighted
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> but what does dansguardian do to prevent the bad url/locate issue
<Burgundavia> ?
<Amaranth> i'll look tomorrow
<Amaranth> bed time now
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, are you doing soc for edubuntu?
<Amaranth> hopefully
<Burgundavia> ah, hence why you are looking at it now
<Amaranth> yeah, i said i could start thursday
<Amaranth> but i got done with school early
<jsgotangco> meh i have to do some last minute SoC revivews
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: vote me to the top :)
<jsgotangco> Amaranth: the willow spec is already like 3rd heh
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: higher is always better :P
* jsgotangco checks
<jsgotangco> heh i just voted for it already
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, is it Henrik Omma?
<jsgotangco> no ogra will mentor it
<jsgotangco> (willow)
<Amaranth> what rank is it? :)
<jsgotangco> 4th
<Amaranth> cool
<Amaranth> iirc projects get slots assigned to them tomorrow
<jsgotangco> yeah we have 227 applications but it seems we're going to get less than 10 in
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no, henrik's last name, is it Oma?
<jsgotangco> Omma
<jsgotangco> eerr less than 20 rather
<Burgundavia> ok, check
<jsgotangco> there's quite a number of members getting into this year's SoC
<saugilsr_> Burgundavia: I use Dansguardian at work.. 
<jsgotangco> hmmm it seems edubuntu-artwork broke
<jsgotangco> ekkk no its epiphany!
* jsgotangco wonders what's wrong
<saugilsr_> Burgundavia:  Works really well.  Its has weighted words/phrases and blocks sites based on the actual content of the webpage.  So for example the word 'breast' alone can have a high weight maybe 50.. but 'breast cancer' will have a low one..  any blocked site/page is redirected to a custom page of your making showing why its was blocked.   Or you can just block sites, extensions outright.
<saugilsr_> Burgundavia:   whats interesting is that by its nature it will also make sure any conversation of web IM is clean..  nice side effect
<Yagisan> Phlosten: get my emails ?
<Phlosten> Yagisan, yup
<Phlosten> cheers
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: hey
<Phlosten> bbs
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: Phlosten: no reportbug mail from either of you yet ?
<jsgotangco> no sorry, im just about to install it today
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: no worries. was just checking to make sure I didn't miss any mail
<jsgotangco> nice skype installs with no hitches in edubuntu
<jsgotangco> (for the deb)
<jsgotangco> can't say if its actually usable yet though
<jsgotangco> P3L|C4N0: welcome
<P3L|C4N0> hi, jsgotangco 
<HedgeMage> Hey, all, need an opinion on something...
<pygi> HedgeMage, ?
<pygi> Hi btw
<HedgeMage> In the post-installation chapter in the standalone install section, I cover adding users, applying updates, and configuring email.  However, for both Evolution and T-bird, most of my instructions are essentially "fill in the clearly labeled blanks with the information from your ISP or mail server manager"
<HedgeMage> think I should go ahead and ditch the sections on email?
<HedgeMage> I feel like there's way more text than useful content in that section
<pygi> indeed
<HedgeMage> cool
<HedgeMage> just wanted to make sure I'm not nuts :P
<HedgeMage> btw, why aren't you on jabber? :P
<pygi> because I cant login, but you can add mario.danicv
<pygi> mario.danic@gmail.com
<pygi> that works :)
<HedgeMage> ahh ok :)
<HedgeMage> when it said it didn't change your pw, it really did
<pygi> try adding :P
<HedgeMage> I told cbx but you weren't here
<HedgeMage> I know gtalk is rebranded jabber :P
<pygi> yes, now add me :-P
<Yagisan> argh - ebay fucktard shipped my parts in a normal envelope. they been crushed by the mail sorting machines :(
<Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/bad-ebayers/6878430475-scotia4c-back.jpg & http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/bad-ebayers/6878430475-scotia4c-front.jpg
<Yagisan> :(
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: squeaky wheel bump
<HedgeMage> hi Yagisan 
<HedgeMage> that stinks
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: can you remind me when I'm on-duty?  I'm only in #edubuntu right now and hiding from the masses.
<HedgeMage> I was getting so many staff request /msg-es I couldn't get anything done.
<jsgotangco> that looks really ugly
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I don't know when you are on duty, but I'll remind you later
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: cool, or you can drop me an email at my freenode addy ( hedgemage@freenode.net ) with your nick, group name and chan(s) etc etc.
<HedgeMage> we're kind of halted on GCFs today, hopefully will pick up again tomorrow
<Phlosten> Yagisan, what was in the envelope?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yeah, the cunt spent 50 cents on postage, rather then the much higher postage charged
<Yagisan> Phlosten: RAM
<Yagisan> haha yeah - like it will work now
<Phlosten> stupid ebay retards
<Yagisan> well, thats one less thin client to use now
<HedgeMage> BTW, my hardware reqs paragraph was on the backup disc that went MIA... can someone remind me what's on the CD jacket so I can rewrite (standalone, not LTSP)
<Phlosten> ebay needs to change the way it displays postage
<Phlosten> should be seperate 'this is postage cost' and 'this is handling cost'
<Phlosten> Yagisan, poo thinclient
<Phlosten> poor
<Phlosten> even o_O
<Phlosten> i am trying to source bits for about 8 TC's 
<Yagisan> Phlosten: yeah. needed older modules for it too, new ones don't work
<Phlosten> i have enough bits for about 2
<Phlosten> only 1 spare monitor tho
<Yagisan> no chance of getting my money back either, as it just falls under the cutoff
<Phlosten> bah
<Phlosten> make sure you negative feedback it!
<HedgeMage> :(
<Phlosten> and sign his email address up to 100's of spam lists
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<Phlosten> i better do some work
<Phlosten> bbl
<Yagisan>  hmm. I don't see a stamp on the envelope
<Yagisan> Phlosten: I should have his name and bank details around here somewhere. I wonder if that is enough to do a Nigerian 401 >:) ...
<Yagisan> Phlosten: anyway, I need to take the kids to the doctor. be back later
<HedgeMage> Anyone who's interested, see https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet to note the things in my section that need proofreading.  I'm going to spend my last 10 minutes before bad working on my own stuff, I'll be back on Edubuntu tomorrow cleaning up last tidbits and making requested screenshots
* HedgeMage waves
<HedgeMage> I'm out of here!
<pygi> spacey, poke?
<pygi> JaneW, poke?
<JaneW> hi py
<JaneW> pygi too
<pygi> we've got part of Cookbook
<pygi> considering I havent heard from highvoltage and spacey for quite some time now...
<pygi> cbx33 has joined us in the efforts
<JaneW> cool!
<pygi> also, please add me as mentor to that calendar thingy
<pygi> she has change application to evo plugins
<pygi> cbx33, hi
<pygi> were just talking about you
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> what aboutme ?
<pygi> well, that you joined efforts for Cookbook :P
<cbx33> heheh :p
<cbx33> i'm trying
<pygi> :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: hey
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<cbx33> hi JaneW 
<jsgotangco> JaneW: just a quick question: does Dione answer emails?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I have another patch for the docs
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I think so... but I have not really been in contact yet, just CCed in msg so far
<JaneW> so I haven't really seen evidence
<jsgotangco> cbx33: please send it to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> ok will do
<pygi> JaneW,  http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=tere.ertw@gmail.com:15f086bf:c32d38be
<cbx33> grr I hate it when that happens
<jsgotangco> JaneW: ok i have no response yet will just wait and see then just make a followup
<pygi> cbx33, heh :)
<jsgotangco> pygi: if that's doable it would be great
* jsgotangco will have a good reason to use evo
<pygi> jsgotangco, it is doable
<pygi> look at the end of application, she added evo plugin
<jsgotangco> i just read it
<jsgotangco> her application is pretty solid
<pygi> oh,oki :)
<pygi> JaneW, make me mentor on that one
<pygi> I talked to her, and she really seems to know what she is doing
<pygi> I hate all those KDE people who havent responded tho :(
<pygi> what are you mentoring?
<jsgotangco> i will add further, can it process offline calendars then sync to google calendar? (if its asking too much nevermind)
<pygi> jsgotangco, ? :)
<pygi> hm, what do you mean?
<jsgotangco> pygi: pyq
<pygi> ah, yes :)
<jsgotangco> pygi: if i have a calendar entry in evo that is not from google calendar
<pygi> hm, well, that should also be syncable
* pygi writes that down
<pygi> that pyq guy "stole" part of my nick
<pygi> gah :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, please make sure interface is better then this :P
<pygi> http://byte.csc.lsu.edu/~rrouss7/soc/pyq/rev1/
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i agree it needs some work
<pygi> indeed :)
<jsgotangco> i should try doing a mockup too
* pygi agrees, but better one :)
<pygi> and this Site manager is urgh...
<pygi> how do you call it... unusable? :)
<jsgotangco> hey they're mockups :)
* jsgotangco grabs glade
<pygi> o and yes..you want me to rank the application up?
<jsgotangco> feel free
* pygi ranks app up
<pygi> take a look at this then: http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=Szilveszter.Farkas@gmail.com:f57b5588:ae8c6326
* pygi = done with ranking up
<cbx33> jsgotangco: http://www.progbox.co.uk/cbx/index.php/Patch03 - if you click on edit, can you just take a quick review of the patch and verify it's in the correct format for me before I pose to the list, I normally post them to LaserJock
<cbx33> but I don't know if he doctors them i nany way
<jsgotangco> a patch in a mediawiki? heh
<cbx33> jsgotangco: indeed, it's the easiest way for now :p
<cbx33> jsgotangco: i tried to wrap it in a <pre></pre> but it dies and replaces the text with something screwy
* jsgotangco wonders what the reaction would be if we had dopewars on the default install
<pygi> lol
<pygi> jsgotangco, looked perhaps on that application I gave you?
<jsgotangco> yes
<cbx33> jsgotangco: did it look ok?
<jsgotangco> i looked at the initial work done in the bzr site
<pygi> jsgotangco, voted? :)
<jsgotangco> i haven't will read further later (currently at work)
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<pygi> JaneW, poke again :)
<Phlosten> evening all
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> Phlosten: sent the pics to the ebay guy
<Phlosten> Yagisan, no response yet?
<Phlosten> Yagisan, have you got link to those pics?
<Yagisan> Phlosten: should be getting a refund soon (at least thats what his email said)
<Yagisan> Phlosten: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/bad-ebayers/6878430475-scotia4c-back.jpg
<Yagisan> took the front page down at my wifes request
<Phlosten> i did not see the front page
<Phlosten> was showing my other half 
<Yagisan> Phlosten: how do you expect ram to survive that ?
<Phlosten> with luck
<Phlosten> :)
<Phlosten> ok, i need something work out the exact model of an NIC card on a diskless client
<Yagisan> Phlosten: pci id
<Yagisan> Phlosten: hit pause at the status screen
<Phlosten> need something to boot from floppy
<Yagisan> Phlosten: can you pull the case off ?
<Phlosten> i have two cards and I know they identify as other common cards under linux
<Phlosten> i did see something somewhere on wiki or somewhere of what to do
<Phlosten> have you guys got some sort of meeting tonight?
<Yagisan> Phlosten: every wednesday at 12:.00utc. 
<Phlosten> is that 10pm est?
<Phlosten> aest
<Yagisan> Phlosten: Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 23:30: Xubuntu | 19 May 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 May 07:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 06:00: Technical Board | 24 May 23:30: Xubuntu
* Yagisan waves at cbx33
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> cbx33: let me know when you've set up doomsday. I'll have a new svn release soon
<cbx33> ok Yagisan 
<Yagisan> cbx33: thanks. I have 5 people listed now, just a few more testers and I'll be really happy
<Yagisan> Phlosten: jsgotangco: cbx33: were my instructions clear ?
<cbx33> yeh i think so
<Yagisan> cbx33: ok. I know it was a bit long.
<cbx33> good morning mr Ogra
<jsgotangco> ogra: epiphany doesn't show the startpage correctly (no images/css)
<Phlosten> Yagisan, i only briefly looked through them
<ogra> jsgotangco, iwj did that, not my fault
<jsgotangco> ahh
<cbx33> jsgotangco: shall i email that patch to the list then?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yes please, i have my tree here, i can upload
<cbx33> ok nice
<jsgotangco> ogra: even if it worked in firefox?
<jsgotangco> ogra: epiphany referred to no locales
<jsgotangco> while firefox did
<ogra> jsgotangco, pleas ping him, he did an explicit upload of edubuntu-artwork yesterday for that, i have no idea what he changed
<jsgotangco> ogra: thanks, just making sure
<cbx33> jsgotangco: sent
<jsgotangco> cheers
* jsgotangco checks
<jsgotangco> its not a diff
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> it should be
<jsgotangco> wait my bad
<Yagisan> Phlosten: if anything is unclear, feel free to message me, or email me.
<cbx33> jsgotangco: so it is a diff?
<jsgotangco> yeah it validates
<cbx33> sorry I shouldn't have saved with .xml
<cbx33> my bad there
<jsgotangco> just checking the doc now
<cbx33> :D
<jsgotangco> ive uploaded it
<cbx33> nice thanks jsgotangco 
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 1 hour
<cbx33> yes yes :D
<cbx33> i love these meetings
<ribbo> Can anyone suggest which kernel should I install to detect and use 4GiB of RAM, I have tied the -686-smp kernel.
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 10 mins
<ribbo> the machine is still running Hoary, by the way - one of the tuXlab servers.
<ribbo> brb
<JaneW> 4 mins
<ogra> either your or my clock is wrong then :)
<schoolinux> Hi all
<cbx33> hi schoolinux 
<cbx33> did you try DCC'ing me?
<schoolinux> yep
<schoolinux> actually i'm new to Xchat
<cbx33> a hok
<schoolinux> well, i had some questions
<schoolinux> is meeting started?
<pips1> yes, the meeting is currently going on in #ubuntu-meeting
<mhz> hi you all
<mhz> seen! highvoltage
<mhz> oops, not it
<mhz> lastseen! highvoltage
<mhz> oops, not it
<cbx33> mhz: you were right the first time
<cbx33> but the ! at the beginning
<mhz> ooh
<cbx33> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 16h 39m 14s ago, saying: 'goodnight ogra, cbx33 and the rest of #edubuntu :)'.
<mhz> thx, as usual, cbx33 
<cbx33> np
<mhz> JaneW, ping
<JaneW> mhz: pong
<mhz> JaneW, hi there. Nice to see you. Got 3 mins?
<JaneW> mhz: sure
<mhz> cool
<mhz> 2 things, As you know, despite of all the obstacles they are putting in front of us, we've decided to just continue trying to carry out the Fair of Education adn Free Technlogy here in Chile
<mhz> So, we have even contacted the Southafrican embassy
<mhz> to try asking for help in order to bring Jonathan to this event
<mhz> JaneW, do you know any one in that embassy? Do you know if southafrica has any support fo speakers to attend international events?
* mhz is not sure the word obstacles means barriers, stops .)
<JaneW> gosh I don't know
<JaneW> you mean the SA embassy in Chile?
<mhz> yup, or from SA to Chile
<mhz> meaning, SA, as Gov.
<JaneW> mhz: TBH I doubt they'd be vwilling to help
<mhz> oh
<JaneW> unfortunately
<mhz> just like that?
<JaneW> I read your mail
<mhz> no sugar on top? :D
<JaneW> sounds bad
<mhz> oh?
<mhz> what you mean?
<JaneW> yes your funding being pulled
<mhz> oh
<mhz> yeah, I am getting used to that
<JaneW> :?
<JaneW> :/
<mhz> hence, I have been writing many articles directed to Schools and Min. of Education. At least, people are starting to sending me emails congratulating me for the initiative, for the waking up of some conciousness about the FLOSS topic for Education.
<JaneW> best bet would be for Jonathan to try to get funding from the foundation
<JaneW> but they have had a management shake-up so I am not sure how likely that is to happen
<mhz> oh, yeah, I had thought so but I just can't rely only on mark's. I feel uncomfortable having to contact mark for funding only, and it seems he's not coming to the event either
<mhz> Well, the 2nd point is, Do you have clear vision of what Mark's ideas/near future plans are for ICT on Education topics?
<mhz> JaneW, Well, the 2nd point is, Do you have clear vision of what Mark's ideas/near future plans are for ICT on Education topics?
<cbx33> mhz: why not include a copy of the ESA when it;s complete :p
<mhz> ESA?
<cbx33> edubuntu school advocacy 
<cbx33> I'll link you
<cbx33> it's still a work in progress
<mhz> OF COURSE! as I said, it is really cool doc/idea
<mhz> and i will definately translate it into spanish (soon I hope)
<cbx33> wow cool
<mhz> cbx33, by "include" you mean...?
<cbx33> well, it's hopefully going to be a printed leaflet
<cbx33> :D
<mhz> excellent! I was just confirmed my regular participation  (for free, again! :( ) in a magazine distributed to about 500 schools for no cost
<mhz> so, I can easily propose articles and stuff to be in every issue
<mhz> )every 3 months)
<mhz> jsgotangco, hi.. 
<jsgotangco> mhz: hi!
* mhz slaps himself... still not sent the email to -doc about firefox index
<JaneW> mhz: I think Mark is going to focus more on education in the next 6 months
<ogra> he is very focused on LAMS atm
<ogra> i think he's doing some preparation work so we can include it in edgy or edgy+1
<mhz> ogra, LAMS?
<ogra> lamsfoundation.org (i think)
<mhz> ohhh
<ogra> but its based on apache tomcat and needs porting first
<ogra> (its a java based server app)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> gee, there is SO MUCH to do
<jsgotangco> ogra: the green background seems to blend with red strangely
<ogra> jsgotangco, suggestions ? 
<ogra> i think it works though
<jsgotangco> yeah strangely
<jsgotangco> i like the contrast
<ogra> yep, but it might be a prob with red/green blindness, we should probably find someone who has one to tell us about
<jsgotangco> JaneW: KL  804   17JUN MANILA/AMSTERDAM  1045   1835
<jsgotangco> KL 2023   17JUN AMSTERDAM/PARIS   2050   2205
<jsgotangco> crap
<ogra> oh, have fun on the prop plane from a-dam to paris
<jsgotangco> gee
<jsgotangco> what is KL?
<jsgotangco> KLM?
<ogra> KLM
<jsgotangco> isn't that crap?
* jsgotangco have no idea, he hasn't been amsterdam or france
<jsgotangco> prop plane? gee i even avoid those on local planes
<ogra> its ok, but i dont understand why you cant fly directly
<jsgotangco> its the cheapest
<ogra> CDG is a pretty big airport, i'd imagine direct flights could work
<jsgotangco> i was surprised there is no Air France coming from here
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> the others are all over 1000
<jsgotangco> this one is 750
<ogra> ah
<jsgotangco> $702 rather
<ogra> thats significant
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> i'm pondering to go by train or car...
<jsgotangco> but then,next to the guys from AU, i would be the next to experience jetlag for sure
<ogra> do we have many ppl from .au this time  ?
<jsgotangco> i dunno
<jsgotangco> core devs?
<ogra> i wouldnt guess so
<ogra> hmm, lifeless
<ogra> jdub is already in .za
<jsgotangco> `are you going to guadec?
<ogra> not sure yet
<ogra> i'm sad i'm not in .mx, seems the debian guys start to rework the ltsp design
<ogra> would have been helpful to go for me
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> we're just too close to release huh
<ogra> yep
<ogra> bad timing
<jsgotangco> ok i look at the klm site and its says its "the reliable airline"
* jsgotangco hopes so
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i dont like KLM but thats a personal thing
<ogra> (since i had to spend a night in shiphol because of them)
<jsgotangco> i've heard of stuff..but then who am i to complain heh
<ogra> a passenger ? 
<jsgotangco> wonder if i could use my miles
<cbx33> ping JaneW 
<jsgotangco> she must have left already for her yogo
<jsgotangco> yoga
<lucasvo> I have a problem with the dhcpd3 initscript
<lucasvo> when I run sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start 
<lucasvo> it says fail
<lucasvo> when I run sudo dhcpd3
<lucasvo> it works
<mhz> cbx33, http://www.progbox.co.uk/33.jpg ?
<mhz> what is that for?
<mhz> lucasvo, what does it fail?
<mhz> what does log say?
<mhz> .oO(hmmm, juliux is in the house... we seem to have full house -at least logged in)
<lucasvo> mhz: http://pastebin.com/722659
<juliux> mhz, lol
<jsgotangco> good night
<mhz> we had full house :)
<mhz> nite, jsgotangco 
<lucasvo> goodnight jsgotangco 
<mhz> lucasvo, it seems "No subnet declaration for eth1 (0.0.0.0)."
<mhz> you need to declare it
<mhz> can you aste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
<mhz> +p
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Server V3.0.3
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Copyright 2004-2005 Internet Systems Consortium.
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: All rights reserved.
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/sw/dhcp/
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Server V3.0.3
<cbx33> mhz, that's the young theme wallpaper for edubuntu
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Copyright 2004-2005 Internet Systems Consortium.
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: All rights reserved.
<cbx33> my wife did it :p
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/sw/dhcp/
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Wrote 4 leases to leases file.
<mhz> cbx33, pretty cool
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd:
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: No subnet declaration for eth2 (192.168.0.6).
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: ** Ignoring requests on eth2.  If this is not what
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd:    you want, please write a subnet declaration
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd:    in your dhcpd.conf file for the network segment
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd:    to which interface eth2 is attached. **
<mhz> cbx33, by young you mean what age?
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd:
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Listening on LPF/eth0/00:08:a1:6f:30:8f/192.168.1/24
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Sending on   LPF/eth0/00:08:a1:6f:30:8f/192.168.1/24
<lucasvo> May 17 18:14:44 localhost dhcpd: Sending on   Socket/fallback/fallback-net
<lucasvo> oh shit
<lucasvo> sorry
<lucasvo> in the same environment
* mhz hopes lucasvo made a mistake only :D
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722668
<lucasvo> I wanted to paste this
<lucasvo> mhz: sudo dhcpd3 works 
<cbx33> mhz, I'm not sure
<mhz> LOl
<lucasvo> mhz: ?
<mhz> lucasvo, okis, me reads the new pastebin
* lucasvo loooooooves ice cream!
<mhz> lucasvo, hmmm, not that. I'd like to read your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file in pastebin
<mhz> because the error states you have not declare subnet
<mhz> thereofre, the server does not start
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722739
<ogra> lucasvo, you need at least 1 interface that matches the range you defined in dhcpd.conf
<ogra> else dhcpd wont start
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722764 < ifconfig
<ogra> s/range/subnet/
<lucasvo> ogra: so why does sudo dhcpd3 start the server, but the init script not?
<ogra> an dthe dhcpd.conf ? 
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722739
<ogra> it doesnt start the server 
<lucasvo> ogra: ?
<lucasvo> why not?
<ogra> it starts the process but it wont server anything
<ogra> *serve
<lucasvo> ogra: it DOES server something
<lucasvo> it works, I can get IP's if I use sudo dhcpd3
<lucasvo> the configuration is correct
<mhz> yeah, but you wont get LTSP ;)
<ogra> anyway, you shouldnt do that
<ogra> +its not supposed to do anything
<lucasvo> mhz: why?
<lucasvo> it works
<lucasvo> I use ltsp over this
<mhz> really?
<mhz> wow, then I am ignorant
<lucasvo> mhz: I don't have the edubuntu standalone package
<lucasvo> afaik
<ogra> looks like your config uses eth1, so whats the issue ? 
<lucasvo> no, it doesn't, it should use eth0
<mhz> ooh
<ogra> err, yes
<lucasvo> #
<lucasvo> root@supernova:/home/lucasvo# ifconfig
<lucasvo> #
<lucasvo> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00afdsasfd6F:30:8F
<lucasvo> # inet addr:192.168.1.1  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
<ogra> i was confused by eth2 there
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> I don't know why the pci card comes before the built in one
<ogra> indeed, so whats the issue so i can go to dinner ?
<mhz> hehehe
<cbx33> ogra, I wasthinking
<lucasvo> when I run /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<lucasvo> it fails
<cbx33> new meetings minutes page?
<ogra> cbx33, yep
<lucasvo> when I run sudo dhcpd3, everything works fine
<cbx33> or shall I add to the old one
<mhz> cbx33, +1
<cbx33> it's pretty big
<cbx33> ok :D
<ogra> lucasvo, *dont* run sudo dhcpd3
<lucasvo> ogra: why not?
<ogra> so you did make your edits in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, right ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: at least it works
<lucasvo> ogra: no in /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> lucasvo, because its not supposed to work and you break with the initscript, also it wont use the right config
<mhz> lucasvo, ahhhhh
<ogra> lucasvo, so edit the right file then and drop all the overhead from the file, there is a lot of crap you wont need
* ogra is off to dinner
<mhz> lucasvo, now you are talking
<mhz> I asked for the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf 
<mhz> because it is the one for Edubuntu to work
<lucasvo> mhz: they are actually the same
<lucasvo> I don't have the ltsp-standalone
<mhz> this /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf will/would work in a "normal" dhcp server environment. Edubuntu uses a diff approach and it reads /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lucasvo> mhz: not in my case
<mhz> ooh, I see.
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722847
<mhz> lucasvo, you have 2 or 3 NICs?
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/722851
<lucasvo> mhz: 3, but I only use 2
<mhz> lucasvo, and dhcp should work on which?
<lucasvo> eth0
* mhz is lost now
<mhz> If eth0 is up, and your .conf files looks ok
<mhz> how is that dhcp3-server complains?
<lucasvo> not at all
<lucasvo> it only says Fail
<lucasvo> Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Server V3.0.3
<lucasvo> Copyright 2004-2005 Internet Systems Consortium.
<lucasvo> All rights reserved.
<lucasvo> For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/sw/dhcp/ * Starting DHCP server:                                                                                                                              [fail] 
<lucasvo> root@supernova:/home/lucasvo#
<mhz> unless... the init.d/dhc... script forces reading in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf instead of your conf
<lucasvo> no it doesn't
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> then, sorry..
<mhz> I am lost
* mhz still scratching his head
<ogra> lucasvo, it uses the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf in any case if it exists
<mhz> oh, then my theory was right? it forces reading it
<ogra> thats one of the purposes of the initscripts alongside with writing proper .pid files and creating the right chache files/directorys
<mhz> oh, come on! you are eating dinner
<mhz> :D
<ogra> *dont* use dhcpd without the initscript
<mhz> good argument
<ogra> and use the right file or make it use the other one by deleting /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
* mhz is happy scratching the head is no loner needed
<ogra> just fiddling around by starting binarys from the commandline doesnt help anybody
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> .oO(fiddling around was a phrasal verb I did not know but I got the context)
<lucasvo> ogra: I modified the initscript
<lucasvo> ogra: as you see, highlighted in this paste:http://pastebin.com/722847
<lucasvo> AND I removed the ltsp-server-standalone
<ogra> then youre on your own
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> and this crappy init script doesn't even give good output
<lucasvo> ogra: what do you mean, by modifiying the script you don't have to support me, or that you don't know what the problem could be?
<ogra> that i really dont care about it then 
<ogra> i have ~ 36h for modifications on the distro before it hard freezes and am very cautious if something doesnt work as it should ... please tell in advance that you changed the packaged files next time 
<lucasvo> ogra: http://pastebin.com/722898
<lucasvo> ogra: it didn't work before I modified it as well
<ogra> i wont support you, ask again after friday i have really not the time to play with breakage you introduced
<lucasvo> ogra: first of all, it never worked
<lucasvo> that's why I introduced "the little breakage"
<ogra> lucasvo, it works for everyone else
<lucasvo> ogra: I did everything according to the guide
<mhz> do you have all edubuntu packages installed? or you installed dhcp server manually?
<lucasvo> mhz: I installed edubuntu-server
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't think it's a problem of edubunt, it's a problem of dhcp init script
<ogra> there is no problem in the initscript
<mhz_off> okis, bye guys...
<ogra> ciao 
<lucasvo> ogra: here I have a more serious bug
<lucasvo> with up to date software
<lucasvo> http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/ltsp.txt
<lucasvo> ogra: it's the third time I tried it
<lucasvo> I did a SW update 2h ago
<ogra> sorry, no idea i have three different successfull ppc reports from this week and didn one myself yesterday
<lucasvo> hm
<lucasvo> ogra: in that case, can you give me your chroot?
<lucasvo> I am fed up with that crap!
<ogra> on monday i can
<ogra> i dont have the time for any such stuff now
<ogra> also i'd sugegst to find whats wrong with that machine first, my chroot wont help you if you for example run out of diskspace 
<ogra> (you'll need >500M free for building the chroot)
<lucasvo> /dev/hda1              24G   19G  4.5G  81% /
<lucasvo> I mounted it over nfs
<ogra> yes but obviously something is wrong ... else debootstrap wouldnt fail
<lucasvo> ogra: where does it store the logs?
<ogra> there are none
<lucasvo> :(
<ogra> it logs to stdout
<lucasvo> ogra: maybe run the command manually and look what it says?
<ogra> you could try that, but dont expect more output
<ogra> since thats all verbosity debootstrap has
<lucasvo> dpkg: unable to lock dpkg status database: no lockas available
<lucasvo> :(
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<juliux> ogra, 
<juliux> ping
<pygi> JaneW, poke? :)
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> sorry i couldn't be at the edubuntu meeting this afternoon
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
<highvoltage> anyone have notes?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: no, that was 0500 for me
<pygi> highvoltage, do I eat you now or just later?
<highvoltage> pygi: already ate :)
<highvoltage> oh, eat me :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> why?
<pygi> ergh, the cookbook?
<highvoltage> yeah, i told you monday i can only upload it on friday :/
<highvoltage> our internet connection was down at work, so i saved it in text files on a pc there (*should've* saved it on laptop, but didn't think that far)
<pygi> ergh, oki :-/ Have you written all?
<highvoltage> not really :(
<highvoltage> there's big parts there
<pygi> er :-/
<pygi> ah,oki :-/
<highvoltage> there's probably anough to consider it 'complete'
<highvoltage> but it's not often that i'm satisfied very quickly with any documentation
<pygi> yes, yes, ok :)
<pygi> I gotta run now, so talk to you later :)
<highvoltage> ok, bye pygi 
<cbx33> could everyone who was at the meeting just check these minutes for me :p
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<cbx33> do they sound roughly like what went on :?
<cbx33> evening LaserJock 
* pygi looks
<cbx33> look ok pygi ?
<pygi> yup, probably
<cbx33> heheh
<pygi> I wasn't there :P
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> how is the cookbook
<cbx33> I'll have a while to work on ti toorrow
<cbx33> I'm too ill to go to work
<pygi> I just saw there was a question about it :)
<pygi> argh :-/
<pygi> nice to see you helping us, but hate to see you sick :(
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I had tuesday off
<cbx33> went in today
<cbx33> but just feel too ill to go in tomorrow
<cbx33> so staying home to recooperate
<cbx33> with some edubuntu goodness
<pygi> :)
<pygi> hey andrea
<Bluekuja> hey pygi, sorry for answering now but i was afk :)
<pygi> no problems at all :)
<Bluekuja> mario, i have to go now
<Bluekuja> see you tomorrow
<pygi> oki, bye :)
<Bluekuja> take care
<Bluekuja> cya #edubuntu
#edubuntu 2006-05-23
<Phlosten> morning all
<pygi> mornin Phlosten 
<pygi> night
<Doxedon> hi
<Doxedon> can anyone help me?
<Burgwork> Doxedon, what is your issue?
<Doxedon> How do I get the GUI to load? Currently all I see is a black screen where I can type
<Burgwork> what version of Edubuntu?
<Doxedon> *cough* It's uhh Ubuntu Live CD 5. something?
<Burgwork> Flight 5?
<Doxedon> breezebadger
<Burgwork> hmm, ok
<Doxedon> 5.10
<Burgwork> what kind of video card do you have and what kind fo machine?
<Doxedon> no idea :(
<Burgwork> laptop or desktop?
<Doxedon> desktop
<Burgwork> is it a custom built or a name brand?
<Doxedon> it said it loaded the desktop files [ok]  and a bunch of other things
<Doxedon> i think its a standard
<Doxedon> got it like 5-6 years ago
<Burgwork> we are on the verge of releasing a new version of Ubuntu, are you able to try that?
<Doxedon> sure, I guess?
<Burgwork> http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/ <-- can you download this and try it?
<Burgwork> are you just wanting to try ubuntu?
<Burgwork> Doxedon, if your machine does not work with that, do you think you can file a bug?
<Doxedon> yeah, I just want to try it out
<Doxedon> so I downloaded the live cd version just to see how it goes
<Doxedon> I'd try it on a newer computer but it won't boot off the cd for some reason
<Burgwork> the version I asked you to download is a still a beta, so don't trust mission critical data to it
<Doxedon> does that come in a live cd format?
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> the new beta version of Ubuntu also has the ability to install straight from the live cd
<saugilsr_> .
<Burgwork> salut saugilsr 
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you get any word back from the willow guy?
<Amaranth> nope
<alfredn> hello, before I try to figure out why somethings is not working  I was just wondering if more then one terminal client can use sound at a time, seems no big deal (k12ltsp) but I know edu is doing alot of changes (for the better (-:)
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<LaserJock> hi Edubuntu people!
<bimberi> hey LaserJock
<pygi> spacey, poke :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, is the amd64 cd back undersize now?
<ogra> Burgundavia, the next build
<Burgundavia> and all we lost was kstars and tuxmath?
<ogra> yep
<Burgundavia> ok, just wondering
<jsgotangco> try installing it for once ;)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am preserving my perfect reputation for having never actually installed Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> :P
<Burgundavia> in fact, I have never actually used Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> I have used nearly everything in it, just not the whole package
<jsgotangco> fair enough
<jsgotangco> but then you're just looking at the surface
<Burgundavia> besides, if I actually installed it, you wouldn't be able to raz me for it
<Burgundavia> ogra, if we pitched it right, do you think mark would go for sponsoring somebody to work on the gcompris artwork?
<jsgotangco> we need more community developers involved first
<ogra> hmm, no idea, i dont know at all what he thinks about gcpmpris
<Burgundavia> I was thinking bounty style
<Burgundavia> something bdoin and I were kicking around the other day
<jsgotangco> he's more involved in LAMS at the moment no?
<Burgundavia> lams?
<jsgotangco> try going to lamsfoundation.org
<Burgundavia> very cool
* HedgeMage sees activity and peeks in
<Burgundavia> the other way I was going to try and do is to convince the Canadian gov to fund iut
<jsgotangco> the plan is probably to un-java-fy it
* Burgundavia needs to get reinvolved with SILC
<HedgeMage> silc?
<Burgundavia> silc.ca
<HedgeMage> ahh cool
<Burgundavia> well, this is great and all, but I need to sleep
<Burgundavia> night all
<HedgeMage> night night
<lucasvo> 08:46 < jsgotangco> the plan is probably to un-java-fy it
<lucasvo> that's a good idea :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> sleep... work on edubuntu and hosting-provider-nagging stuff... sleep... work...
* HedgeMage weighs the options
<HedgeMage> few more minutes, then sleep
<cbx33> mornin all
<cbx33> ok migrane has vanished and been replaced by a really bad sore throat
<HedgeMage> :(
<HedgeMage> cbx33: are you the person I should get the screenies for ESA to ?
<cbx33> HedgeMage, ya please
<HedgeMage> cbx33: email?
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
* HedgeMage nods
<cbx33> thanky
<HedgeMage> if you want me to size 'em down, I'll do it first thing after I sleep, if you want 'em as-is, I can send 'em now
<HedgeMage> up to you
<HedgeMage> but I really need to get to sleep in the next 5 minutes or so
<cbx33> as-is
<HedgeMage> I have to get up in 5 hours
<HedgeMage> ok
<HedgeMage> one sec
<cbx33> because for the pamphlet they'll need to be pretty large
<HedgeMage> ok
<cbx33> thank you so much HedgeMage 
<cbx33> I'm going to try to get some cookbook done today
<cbx33> any ones in particular you wnat me to work on?
<HedgeMage> let me look at my notes from my convo with pygi
<HedgeMage> cbx33: /msg ?
<cbx33> ping ogra
<HedgeMage> night night all
<HedgeMage> really sleeping this time
<HedgeMage> honest
<HedgeMage> ;)
* HedgeMage waves
<pygi> JaneW, hi, poke :)
<JaneW> hi pygi 
<pygi> thanks for assigning, and can you please make that announcement about ranking projects?
<pygi> we really need to do that, 4 days until the end
<pygi> and I saw cookbook was mentioned at the meeting :)
<cbx33> pygi, you just missed HedgeMage
<cbx33> pygi, I'm working on proofing Part III
<pygi> cbx33, what's with her?
<cbx33> she's gone off to sleep
<pygi> I talked to her already
<cbx33> yes she said :p
<cbx33> do you know the hardware specs for the stand alone install?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: it should be the same as that of ubuntu
<cbx33> right, HedgeMage was asking for her section in PartIII
* jsgotangco needs to draft an annoucement later
<cbx33> indeed
<JaneW> pygi: I sent a mail about the rankings
<pygi> JaneW, thank you very much :)
<JaneW> pygi: on tues, you were included
<JaneW> pygi: I see 21 on the list now
<pygi> you mean on the "mentorship assigned" list?
<pygi> argh, requested*
<JaneW> but we need to make sure they are in the righ order, and at least one student has 2 applications in there
<JaneW> pygi: yes
<pygi> indeed, thats true
<pygi> some also needs ranking down, due to me and Riddell not believing he can do it :-/
<pygi> and not all applications have mentors assigned
<pygi> hm, do you have time now?
<jsgotangco> hey
<pygi> hey jsgotangco :)
<cbx33> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi cbx33 
<pygi> JaneW, hm, where you sent mail? I haven't got it :-/
<JaneW> pygi: hrm, I'll resnd
<pygi> wait, perhaps just server is slow :-/
<JaneW> sent
<JaneW> well I did have all those mail issues...
<pygi> got it now...
<pygi> twice :-/
<jsgotangco> should i expect email too?
<pygi> JaneW, I will look into all projects now, and tell you which one's need assignment
<pygi> Colin Watson - http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=xevand@gmail.com:f70e97ac:ebc677f7
<pygi> JaneW, you'll be mentoring this project? :P http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=gregcig@gmail.com:1261a8f9:5802a1fc
<pygi> Martin Pool - http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=hermann@physiklaborant.de:106021ee:83a175cf
<pygi> Sbastien Bacher - http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=zeploum@gmail.com:16342c23:3114721f
<pygi> Sbastien Bacher - http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=manu.cornet@gmail.com:11c9d3f5:fa7f973e
<JaneW> pygi: no, I just wanted it on the list ;)
* pygi eats JaneW :)
<pygi> who will mentor it then ? :P
<JaneW> pygi: we can assign mentors still
<JaneW> we need the right projects first
<pygi> argh, we have two launchpads :-/
<pygi> indeed :)
<pygi> ah,ok
<JaneW> mdz and I assigned all the mentors to projects last year
<pygi> then we'll do the mentors tommorow or the day after it
<JaneW> they had no choice
<pygi> lol :)
<JaneW> this year they do have a choice
<JaneW> but if they don't decide, I'll do it for them ;)
<pygi> lool :)
<pygi> I have two projects, don't gimme more pls :)
<JaneW> heh
<pygi> what? :-P
<pygi> We also have to work out who will mentor incremental Debian packages update
<pygi> We, or debian...
<pygi> ergh, my vote isn't counted in application's score? :-/
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=yuriy.kozlov@gmail.com:16485917:52b034bb
<pygi> argh, it is 
<pygi> ok :-/
<jsgotangco> JaneW: is cvd online?
<JaneW> yes
<jsgotangco> thanks
<pygi> JaneW, we wont get CUPS 1.2 printing for Kubuntu as part of SoC :(
<juliux> ogra, ping
<cbx33> jsgotangco, how do we handle images in the svn repo/xml docbook format?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: png and its just referenced. you don't have to submit it as a patch just send the images
<jsgotangco> cbx33: wiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots
<jsgotangco> please pngcrush them first
<cbx33> ok thanks jsgotangco 
<cbx33> ping ogra
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi juliux 
<JaneW> hi guys please don't go mad - cos it's still unannounced but
<JaneW> *drumroll*
<JaneW>  shipit.edubuntu.org
* cbx33 clicks
<cbx33> excellent
* cbx33 order 1,000,000
<JaneW> cbx33: *thwap*
<Phlosten> woot!
* cbx33 runs under the furniture
<JaneW> obviously they haven't even been pressed yet, so this is a pre-order...
<Phlosten> do we get bonus stuff if we pre-order before a certain date ;)
<Phlosten> can we preorder more than 5?
<spacey> JaneW: possible to order edubuntu and ubuntu at the same time?
<JaneW> spacey: yes, the order will be consolidated
<JaneW> I ordered through 2 sep URLS
<JaneW> but my result says:
<spacey> consolidated?
<JaneW>     *   5 Edubuntu CDs for PC
<JaneW>     * 5 Ubuntu CDs for PC
<spacey> ok
<JaneW> so go to:
<spacey> thats nice
<JaneW> ubuntu.shipit.com
<JaneW> and/or
<JaneW> kubuntu.shipit.com
<JaneW> and/or
<JaneW> edubuntu.shipit.com
<spacey> ok
<JaneW> it will remeber you if you login with the same LP account
<JaneW> and totals your order together, but you can only access the variants through their interface
<spacey> is it shipit.com? :P
<JaneW> does that make sense?
<JaneW> spacey? what do you mean?
<spacey> yes i understood before your last 8 lines
<spacey> :)
<JaneW> sigh
<JaneW> good
<spacey> is it not shipit.ubuntu.com instead of ubuntu.shipit.com
<JaneW> oh of course yes sorry
<spacey> =P
<JaneW>  shipit.(ed/k)ubuntu.com
<spacey> its still early =P
<JaneW> not really
<JaneW> 13:24
<JaneW> time for lunch
<cbx33> hehe
<JaneW> haven't eaten yet today
* cbx33 should get something to eat
<spacey> time for brunch yes
<cbx33> feeling better, got to go back to work tomorrow
<cbx33> how bad is this that I even work on my sick days
<JaneW> who has access to edit www.edubuntu.org?
<JaneW> besides highvoltage? ^^
* lucasvo can only create sites 
<lucasvo> afaik
<cbx33> I have access JaneW 
<lucasvo> I mean pages
<cbx33> well at least I should have
<JaneW> cbx33: YAY
<cbx33> but there was some issue with roles
<cbx33> not sure I can edit, but I can try
<JaneW> cbx33: if you do, can I ask you to add something to the FAQ, if you have time
<cbx33> sure ask away
<cbx33> JaneW, 
<cbx33> hold up
<cbx33> the permissiosn havn't been sorted yet
<cbx33> I don't have access
<JaneW> ack
<cbx33> sorry JaneW 
<cbx33> I'd willing do it
<JaneW> thanks
* JaneW mails highvoltage
<juliux> JaneW, it is possible to order more then 5 edubuntu cds?
<juliux> JaneW, e.x. for an talk in school or a event
<JaneW> juliux: not at this stage
<juliux> JaneW, ok
<JaneW> juliux: but special oders will be made avaialble, althgouh you'll be asked to motivate why you want lots
<JaneW> they are not cheap
<juliux> JaneW, i know
<JaneW> juliux: silbs shipit has quietly gone live. There is still an important feature to be added (ability to order large numbers of CDs) so the launch is relatively low key until that's in place.
* lucasvo already wondered why he can't order more than 5 edubuntu cds
<juliux> JaneW, i think that is greate that there are cds, the rest is luxury 
<JaneW> because many CDs are wasted and Mark has basically said he is not funding free CDs forever
<JaneW> it costs many $s
<JaneW> he wants Cds to be able to get whereever they need to be, but then wants them to be copied and shared as far as possible
<cbx33> JaneW, it's great news that we can get CD's for Edubuntu this time round
* JaneW thinks so to
<cbx33> do we know what the press run is?
<juliux> JaneW, we have in germany the idea that we sell a special *ubuntu community box, with a dvd. 
<JaneW> I didn;t expect it because we tried for last time and were told no, and that we'd maybe get a few this time
<JaneW> juliux: great :)
<JaneW> cbx33: I asked for 20 000
<cbx33> wow
<JaneW> cbx33: they'll see how it goes
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i guessed that
<juliux> JaneW, it will cost not more than 10, and the benefit will go into the community, e.x. server for forums, or flyer 
<lucasvo> juliux: 10EUR is not much
<lucasvo> what's included in that box?
<cbx33> juliux, is there printing included in that
<juliux> lucasvo, one *ubuntu dvd and a inlay with a little text about ubuntu and where you can get support
<juliux> cbx33, yes it is included
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<cbx33> juliux, sounds fantastic
<juliux> cbx33, its only a paperboard box 
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but still
<lucasvo> cbx33: what about printing the galileo openbook? :)
<cbx33> :p
<juliux> lucasvo, which galileo book?
<lucasvo> http://www.galileocomputing.de/openbook/ubuntu/
<juliux> lucasvo, the german one?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> that's probably not allowed
<lucasvo> :)
* lucasvo would like to make a ubuntujournal
<lucasvo> anybody interested in writing articles?
<juliux> why you want print it your self?
<cbx33> lucasvo, sure
* cbx33 is going to start an edubuntu book
<cbx33> to be printed on something like lulu
<lucasvo> juliux: I mean that there is actually  something in the box
<juliux> lucasvo, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/ikhaya/ one time there will be a printed version of the articel
<lucasvo> cbx33: hm, a book?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> for schools and teachers
<lucasvo> juliux: yeah, one could print that
* lucasvo can't write, neither german nor english :)
<juliux> lucasvo, but a printed journal is very expansive
<lucasvo> juliux: why?
* lucasvo has too many open tabs
<cbx33> hehehe
<juliux> lucasvo, we tried to make a print version for the linuxtag but it was to expansive to give it for free away
<juliux> lucasvo, if you print 400 journals with 40 sites it cost 850
<cbx33> yikes
<juliux> i have to wash my dishes
<juliux> cu
<lucasvo> cu juliux 
<cbx33> bye
* cbx33 is currently 3d modelling his house for his wife
<cbx33> so she can try painting it different colours :p
<lucasvo> juliux: I wouldn't wanted to give it away for free
<lucasvo> you can print it for 10$ per piece if you order about 200
<cbx33> quantity is always the problem
<cbx33> you can get things dirt cheap if you order enough
<lucasvo> Book price:  	$11.50
<lucasvo> Total Price: 	$2,300.00
<lucasvo> Bulk discount: 	22%
<lucasvo> 68 pages
<lucasvo> 200 pieces
<lucasvo> cbx33: make ads
<lucasvo> 4 colors
<lucasvo> cbx33: you would release your book under a CC?
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> which one?
<lucasvo> by-nd?
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> havn't looked into it enough yet
<lucasvo> cbx33: would you be interested in publishing an ubuntu journal?
<cbx33> explain more....
<cbx33> I'm listening
<lucasvo> cbx33: we look for good blog postings, forum threads and other guides, ask people from the community to write articles. 
<cbx33> sounds like a great idea
<lucasvo> correct them, format them for printing, look for people who would be interested in advertising, and print it on lulu for example
<cbx33> lucasvo, sounds like that could work, I mean essentailly the book was going to be similar without the whole community feel of blog posts etc
<lucasvo> one could print the ubuntu meeting calendar
<lucasvo> print the interview from ubuntu devs
<lucasvo> ubuntu behind the scenes
<lucasvo> I would say every 3 months
<lucasvo> cbx33: well, one could say, all the "scientific" articles would be put together once every year and be published as a real book
<cbx33> lucasvo, it sounds like a great idea, will to write a spec with me?
<lucasvo> yes
<cbx33> i would expect to be able to put omre time into this after dapper
<cbx33> but collection of articles and placing them on a planning page would be great
<lucasvo> brb
* Yagisan waves hello
<cbx33> hey Yagisan 
<lucasvo> hi Yagisan 
<lucasvo> re
<lucasvo> the phone call took shorter than I expected :)
<Yagisan> cbx33: lucasvo: whats up ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: we plan a new project: Ubuntu Journal
<lucasvo> cbx33: how should we start?
* lucasvo never wrote a spec
<cbx33> check out the spec template on the wiki
<lucasvo> just create a wiki page based on the template?
<lucasvo> ah yes
<lucasvo> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuJournal
* Yagisan is hiding in here after flames over in -motu and -devel
* Yagisan is sure he flushed his motu chances down the toilet
<Phlosten> flames?
<Phlosten> what did you do?
<Yagisan> Phlosten: I read the sun-java DJL 1.1 and felt it is unsuitable for Ubuntu
<lucasvo> haha
<Phlosten> heh
<Phlosten> it has some tight restrictions attached
<Phlosten> i hope it is not going in the main repos
<Yagisan> Phlosten: they put it in multiverse. I could tell you my opinion, but it will most likely pan out the same way
<lucasvo> cbx33: what should I write in rationale?
<Phlosten> i like opinion
<Yagisan> Phlosten: ok. then we can't ship perl, python, gcc if we ship sun-java5, due to clause 2c
<Phlosten> i havent read it, whats clause 2c?
<Yagisan> Phlosten: clause 2b prohibits us from writing portable java code
<Yagisan> Phlosten: pm'ed it to you
<Phlosten> got it
<Phlosten> thats a very 'broad' clause
<Phlosten> but does it read different in context to other content in this document
<Phlosten> not that I am trying to defend it at all
<lucasvo> cbx33: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuJournal
<Phlosten> i view it as companies want to open source, but not
<Phlosten> i spose you could say its open source, but far from gpl'd :)
<Phlosten> i dont like java much
<Phlosten> lost ya
<Yagisa1> Phlosten: my modem lost power around (23:01:44)
<cbx33> sorry lucasvo 
<cbx33> back now
<lucasvo> cbx33: I already enhanced it a little bit
<cbx33> ok cool
<lucasvo> cbx33: can you read it? and add your comments?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> I'll be bale to commnet hopefully in an hour or so
<cbx33> it sounds great though
<lucasvo> ok
<cbx33> kinda like
<cbx33> ubuntu magazine :p
<cbx33> Yagisan, i'm sure it'll be fine, you'll get Motu
<Phlosten> a journal 4 times a year is only 2 per version
<lucasvo> Phlosten: yes
<lucasvo> that's not good
<lucasvo> maybe 6 a year
<lucasvo> that's 3 per version
<lucasvo> Phlosten: what do you think?
<Phlosten> yeah
<lucasvo> Phlosten: besides the issues any other comment?
<Phlosten> 6.06 LTS is for 3 years or support (5 years server) so there is always that to think of
<Phlosten> or=of
<Phlosten> i think thats a great idea
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'm not sure arguing with core devs helps my chances though
<lucasvo> Yagisan: well, they should respect your attitude
<lucasvo> and not count that as negative 
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I ah, told them I thought they fucked up big time. no one likes to hear that.
<lucasvo> Phlosten: it should only be about the most recent one
<Phlosten> the sun thing should be looked at with critical eyes
<lucasvo> sun thing? 
* lucasvo is irritated when you have cross-channel discussions :)
<Yagisan> lucasvo: yeah the sun-java, and the very restrictive license
<lucasvo> ah, java
* lucasvo only read about that in slashdot
<lucasvo> *lol* Science: Spacecraft Crashes Into Satellite
<lucasvo> -> slahsdot
<cbx33> lucasvo, 3 per version sounds good
<lucasvo> ok, changed
<cbx33> :D
<Phlosten> yeah 3 is good
<cbx33> so lucasvo are we looking at this as journal or magazine :?
<lucasvo> what's the difference?
<lucasvo> :)
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> so i was thinking, featured application, interview
<lucasvo> ->dictionary.com
<cbx33> tips and hints
<lucasvo> yup
<lucasvo> thats good
<cbx33> letters
<cbx33> emails
<lucasvo> Magazine: A periodical containing a collection of articles, stories, pictures, or other features.
<cbx33> could be put onto the wiki, and then put into pdf version for printing as required?
<lucasvo> #  A newspaper.
<lucasvo> # A periodical presenting articles on a particular subject: a medical journal. 
<lucasvo> ^ journal
* Phlosten whacks lucasvo with a magazine
<cbx33> so are we going for magazine? or journal?
<lucasvo> journal :)
<lucasvo> wsj
<lucasvo> uj
<Phlosten> magournal
<lucasvo> wallstreet journal, ubuntu journal
<cbx33> Phlosten, hehe
<cbx33> UM
<cbx33> :p
<Phlosten> jagazine sounds better
* lucasvo is for journal
<lucasvo> what do you think?
<Phlosten> journal is more professional
<Phlosten> magazine is for hacks
<lucasvo> ++
* cbx33 jumps on the jounral
<Phlosten> make sure you have A quality articles :)
* Phlosten jumps on cbx33 
<cbx33> yikes
<lucasvo> cbx33: so, what's next?
<lucasvo> I'll enhance the spec
<lucasvo> oh
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: do you want to write something?
<cbx33> I will do in a short while
<lucasvo> maybe I can get professional design for free from www.360network.ch
<cbx33> just gota grab a bite
<lucasvo> cbx33: we need to find people who would like to get involved
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> we need a detailed watertight spec frost
<cbx33> then we can start to speard the word
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: can you write some more text? 
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> just finishing food
<lucasvo> oh, sorry, I didn't wanted to stress you
<lucasvo> cbx33: tell me when you're done
<cbx33> will do
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<lucasvo> hi jsgotangco 
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<sunnzy2> Trying to install edubuntu 6.06 but stuck on 15% of Partitioner saying it is Detecting file systems anyone know what's wrong?
<sunnzy2> The System still works but the installer just doesn't progress any futher.
<cbx33> sunnzy2, have you tried switching to another console
<cbx33> too see what's going on?
<PCGenie> Mark Shuttleworth did well when he established Ubuntu canonical .ltd
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: hello
<sunnzy2> Doesn't say anything interesting
<sunnzy2> But
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: hello there =)
<sunnzy2> The installer was saying that it can't find root
<cbx33> hmmm
<sunnzy2> But I have set up / (root) just before that message comes up.
<cbx33> double hmm
<sunnzy2> The / partition that is.
<sunnzy2> I have also setup a partition for /home
<cbx33> hmmmm
<sunnzy2> And of course /boot and swap
<cbx33> yeh
<sunnzy2> No ideas?
<cbx33> no, not off hand ..... 
<cbx33> can you verify the partitions have been setup?
<sunnzy2> It doesn't matter, if the partitions are setup then it means the installer couldn't setup partitions
<cbx33> are you instaling to a fresh disc
<cbx33> ie wiping it clean?
<sunnzy2> I am setting up partitions by hand now... :'(
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> see if that works
<sunnzy2> I hope that the installer is smart enough to tell that the partitions has already been setup.
<cbx33> lucasvo, I'm just going to visit the page
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: how are you today?
<sunnzy2> Have anyone here installed edubuntu 6.06?
<cbx33> yes
<sunnzy2> Did you use the live CD?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> is that how you are installing?
<sunnzy2> Yes.
<cbx33> ah wish you'd have said
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: pretty good, just looking at an embassy website for visa requirements for the paris trip
<sunnzy2> It boots up with gnome and stuff and it got this Install button
<cbx33> ok, can you try running the ubiquity command from the a terminal
<cbx33> then you can see what's happening
<cbx33> sunnzy2, how good are you with linux?
<sunnzy2> ubiquity?
<cbx33> that is the name of the install program
<cbx33> but I'm not sure what command you use to run it
<cbx33> i might be ubiquity
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: sounds like a fun trip to be taking
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: ubuntu developer summits are always fun :)
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: I can imagine =)
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: how's the code going?
<lucasvo> cbx33: and?
<cbx33> just editing now
<lucasvo> cool
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: I've been working with threading the Pyro servers in the same program as the GTK mainloop, to make sure it works before I commit to Pyro
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: I succeeded in getting that to work a few days ago, and figured out how to make a simple chat box, which was one of the features of LAMS
<cbx33> nice ryan_rousseau good going
<sunnzy2> Well / isn't mounted at all
<ryan_rousseau> cbx33: thanks
<sunnzy2> Do I need to mount it so the installer can see it?
<cbx33> sunnzy2, no
<sunnzy2> That's weird...
<sunnzy2> How is the installer suppose to know then?
<cbx33> sunnzy2, did you run the installer from the terminal?
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: that's cool, we'll probably wrap up selection by this week then we can start discussing further
<sunnzy2> I'll try it now.
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: That sounds good to me.  I'll be going out of town (back home) this weekend to visit family and have a minor surgery, but I'll be back in town on Tuesday (in time to see the SoC announcements) =)
<lucasvo> cbx33: did you do any changes?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> just finished
<cbx33> take a look
<lucasvo> cool
<sunnzy2> Now it is working but it formatts my partitions using the WRONG format!!!
<sbartleylinux> ogra, ping
<lucasvo> cbx33: what do you think about having ads in ubuntujournal?
<ogra> sbartleylinux, sorry meeting and working since 30h in a row ...
<sbartleylinux> np
<sbartleylinux> Was just hoping to get an update on the status of client side sound and printer support.  We had talked before and I think you said it should be working by final release but I cant remember for sure.
<lucasvo> sbartleylinux: sound works on dapper
<lucasvo> sbartleylinux: but I don't think the printers will
<sbartleylinux> lucasvo, k. thx.  setting up a test today.
<sbartleylinux> lucasvo, do you have any info on where I can find the sound config settings that work on dapper?
<lucasvo> sbartleylinux: you need to enable it in the lts.conf 
<lucasvo> I think you have to add [DEFAULT] 
<lucasvo> SOUND = YES
<lucasvo> but I am not sure
<sbartleylinux> k. will try that. thx.
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<cbx33> sunnzy2, how can you tell?
<cbx33> lucasvo, i think that ads would be a good way to fund the journal for cheaper printing perhaps
<sunnzy2> That's what it is saying...
<cbx33> so what did you ask for and what did it do?
<lucasvo> cbx33: juliux doesn't like it
<cbx33> for what reason?
<lucasvo> he didn't name a good reason
<lucasvo> :)
<cbx33> i can see why there would be reservations
<sunnzy2> And it just crashed
<sunnzy2> I am going to try it one more time and goto sleep
<lucasvo> cbx33: I would say NO ads that offer similar things than canonical does
<cbx33> sunnzy2, please pipe the output from the terminal to a file
<cbx33> lucasvo, of course
<sunnzy2> This installer thing just doesn't work
<sunnzy2> I unchecked all the "reformat" boxes and it still wants to format everything as ext3...
<cbx33> it has worked fine for me, but we need information to fix bugs
<sunnzy2> It doesn't do what it is suppose to do
<sunnzy2> What a waste of CD.
<cbx33> wow how helpful
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: how should we continue?
<lucasvo> should we post it into ubuntuforums?
<cbx33> well....perhaps, find some article etc
<cbx33> to give examples
<lucasvo> I have something I wrote by myself, it still needs to get corrected: http://www.vincisolutions.ch/index.php?id=35
<lucasvo> http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/JaneSilber/
<lucasvo> how can one register the spec?
<cbx33> on launchpad
<cbx33> i'll let you do that, you can get the karma :p
<cbx33> you idea after all :p
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> ah, I didn't knew that I have to pick the ubuntu as a distribution to add a spefc
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> maybe we should put it into the agenda of Community Council
<cbx33> i'd finish up your spec and cite some examples first
<cbx33> maybe even mock up an example page
<lucasvo> yup
<lucasvo> Jack likes to read before he goes to bed, he enjoys the magazine and finds out how easy it is, to contribute to Ubuntu. The following weekend, he tries out Rosetta, on which he read an article in Ubuntu Journal, to translate his favourite apps.
<cbx33> :)
<lucasvo> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuJournal#preview
<lucasvo> cbx33: what do you think of the sample content?
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> JaneW, did you manage to get through to highvoltage?
<lucasvo> cbx33: do you have any articles you would add?
<cbx33> um....i'd have to think
<sbartleylinux> lucasvo, I set lts.conf to have [Default]   &  SOUND = True  which I found on the forum.  Server is an Ubuntu Dapper Server (not edubuntu).  Client is booting fine.  Shows an error on the client about Sound requested but /dev/dsp not found.  Any ideas?
<cbx33> sbartleylinux, ogra would be your man ther e:p
<sbartleylinux> yep.  unfortunately, he has been up for 30 hours and is in a meeting.:)  
<sbartleylinux> audio is coming out on the server speakers but not on the client side.
<sbartleylinux> i.e. when the client logs in, I get audio out of the server.
<cbx33> yes i had that, but then I've never tried client side audio yet
<sbartleylinux> me either.  first time i have tried.
<lucasvo> sbartleylinux: ask ogra, I don't know
<sbartleylinux> np. thx. 
<lucasvo> ogra: ^
<lucasvo> cbx33: would you be intersted in the job as an editor?
<blue-frog> trying to learn how to restrict access to a session based on time/day I play with "account required  pam_time.so" in /etc/pam.d/common-account. Doing this then prevents me to access graphical frontend for synaptic for example, it says wrong password while sudo still works. any idea?
<cbx33> lucasvo, sure, 
<cbx33> as i said if we gather docs now, we can edit it all together after dapper comes out
<cbx33> first release after daper :p
<lucasvo> cbx33: yup
<lucasvo> cbx33: which one do you prefer: http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/fraktur.png
<lucasvo> ?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> top one
<cbx33> i think
<cbx33> are you starting to work on the journal layout and mockup?
<lucasvo> yes
<Burgwork> lucasvo, tbh, I like neither of those because they are hard to read and don't fit with the ubuntu style
<Burgwork> remember that any Ubuntu journal should look and feel like the ubuntu website, etc.
<cbx33> Burgwork, did you get my mail
<lucasvo> Burgwork: http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/Journal.png
<lucasvo> Burgwork: why?
<lucasvo> I gotta go
<lucasvo> a vernisage :)
<lucasvo> http://www.kunsthaus.ch/bilder/shop/plakate/plakat_ruscha.jpg
<cbx33> Burgwork, i made some sugestions about ESA
<lucasvo> *rocks*
<cbx33> brb
<Burgwork> lucasvo, good marketing is all about consistencyh
<Burgwork> look at apple
<Burgwork> they have a consistent look and feel
<Burgwork> you "know" when something is an apple ad
<Burgwork> the other people that do it well are Telus, a big Canadian telephone company
<Burgwork> one thing Ubuntu has done very well is stake out a colour scheme and use it across most of our stuff
<PixelConductor> Hello #edubuntu, anyone here know how to make dhcp3-server serve bootp as well as dhcp?
<PixelConductor> I'm trying to netboot some older imacs.
<Burgwork> PixelConductor, read the dhcpd man page. It talks about it
<PixelConductor> thanks. 
<Burgwork> PixelConductor, here is an online version http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/dhcpd8.html
<PixelConductor> Thanks,
<PixelConductor> I now officially have an i386 server booting 350 and 333mhz imacs via ltsp in dapper.
<PixelConductor> For those who have been following this (I was formerly known as elliot_) the trick is to run ltsp-build-client on the client without nfs mounting /opt/ltsp and then copying over the files in /var/lib/tftpboot and /opt/ltsp/powerpc after the client is built.
<PixelConductor> To boot 333mhz imacs (firmware version 3.0.f3) you need to tell dhcpd to serve a bootp address to that hardware address.
<Burgwork> can you document that somewhere?
<PixelConductor> yes.  Guess it isn't quite as ready as I thought on the 333. 
<PixelConductor> Also, anyone have thoughts on why it would get to a text login, then Alt+F7 brings you a gui login that works.
<Burgwork> PixelConductor, sorry, no idea
<Burgwork> I have actually never installed edubuntu, so won't be able to help you with that
<cbx33> Burgwork, did you get my mail?
<Burgwork> cbx33, the reply to the ESA mail I sent out
<Burgwork> ?
<cbx33> i didn;t get a reply
<Burgwork> I haven't replied yet, due to being at work
<Burgwork> and my work has nothing to do with Eduubntu :(
<cbx33> oh sorry Burgwork 
<cbx33> when you said "the reply to the ESA mail I sent out"
<cbx33> my brain took that to mean, I've sent out something
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra <n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 11h 17m 44s ago, saying: 'yep'.
<juliux> re
<juliux> evening ogra_ibook 
<cbx33> evenin ogra 
<ogra> oh, is it evening ? 
* cbx33 guesses ogra has been working hard
<ogra> since 8am yesterday, with only short coffebreaks, yes
<cbx33> ogra, HedgeMage came up with a theming bug that I wanted to run by you
<cbx33> ogra, get some sleep man
<ogra> yes, yes ... we have a forced holiday tomorrow, i can sleep all day
<cbx33> she changed the theme and then tried to get back to the default one, but the default one isnt saved
<ogra> saved ? 
<cbx33> she managed to copy it across from another computer
<cbx33> yes, is that a supposed to be thing
<ogra> the default one is the default 
<cbx33> once you change the gnome theme on dapper
<cbx33> you can't easily go back
<ogra> if you change something, gconf will always respect that 
<ogra> thats a feature, not a bug
<cbx33> so not being able to get back to the edubuntu default theme easily is ok?
<ogra> well, i wouldt call it a bug, if you change the defaults, just change them back ...
<cbx33> ok,
<cbx33> I'll let her know
<cbx33> howz it all going anyway
<ogra> there is no such thing like a reset theme button, no ... but thats not a bug imho... or if its a bug its a design bug in the gconf system
<cbx33> totally understandable
<ogra> fine ... 
<cbx33> I just said I'd ask you
<ogra> i'm just a bit scared to add the edubuntu-docs package to the CD
<cbx33> size?
<ogra> we have 266k free, i squeezed the package to 211k
<cbx33> go for i ogra 
<ogra> its hard on the edge
<cbx33> HedgeMage, that gnome theme issue isn't a bug
<ogra> and i will have a hard next week if it breaks
<ogra> a very had one
<HedgeMage> cbx33: it's like that on purpose? or is that just until it's finalized?
<cbx33> well if there's anything I can do I'll try
<ogra> HedgeMage, thats by design of the undrlying system
<PixelConductor> is there somewhere that maps breezy packages to new packages in dapper?  Specifically krb5-user appears to be gone.
<HedgeMage> ogra: that's going to confuse a lot of users who switch to another theme and can't switch back
<ogra> if you make a user change, that one will always override the system settings
<HedgeMage> maybe you misunderstood what I was reporting?
<HedgeMage> let's say I install regular ubuntu... I try a few gnome themes and decide I want the standard one back... I choose "Human" and I'm right back to the default
<cbx33> that does happen on edubuntu
<cbx33> doesn't
<cbx33> sorry
<HedgeMage> I install Edubuntu, switch themes, and I can't switch back to the default, why?
<ogra> sure you can
<ogra> dpkg-reconfigure will always do what you tell it
<HedgeMage> it is there as my "current" settings but isn't saved as an actual theme unless the user does so manually
<ogra> but thats only for the systme defaults
<ogra> its a feature imho that gconf overrides that if user settings are present
<HedgeMage> Why would saving the defaults as a theme and having it in the theme chooser list be a bad thing?
<ogra> oh, you are talking about the theme chooser ...
* HedgeMage nods
* HedgeMage is picturing many newbies being very confused/disappointed.
<ogra> i'm not sure i'll find the time to implement it tonight i'll need to sleep at some point
<ogra> but from tomorrow on the archive is pretty much locked (and we're not allowed to upload tommorw by company policy)
<cbx33> ogra, you'd better sleep tomorrow
<ogra> i'll see what i can do, but my schedule is already more than full
<HedgeMage> ogra: I'll happily do it if you can tell me what to do to get it in there, it's a quick thing and I already have it saved as a theme on my system.
<HedgeMage> ogra: I know you are busy as busy can be right now
<ogra> if i do it i want to do it for all three themes
<ogra> and it will require some packaging work and some makefile fu
* HedgeMage nods
<ogra> we'll aslo have to change the default desktop font it seems ... i was hoping to get a fixed version of our current one, but that didnt happen
<Burgwork> ogra, http://www.safedesk.com/opensource/
<ogra> Burgwork, haha, funny
<ogra> uuuh, shudder, they use a cifs based solution for localdevices
<cbx33> shudder indeed
<ogra> Burgwork, they took our ltsp and renamed it ! blasphemy !
<Burgwork> ogra, what grabbed me was the network traffic they purport to get
<ogra> its quite funny that they need 128M on the clients
<ogra> not even breezy was that evil
<cbx33> hehehe
<HedgeMage> ogra: what are the standalone HW reqs on the cd sleeve again?  lost that bit, and need to do a quick re-do of my hw section
<cbx33> HedgeMage, did you see my changes on the proofing?
<Burgwork> ogra, plus I hate companies that have "open source editions"
<HedgeMage> cbx33: looking now
<Burgwork> usually that means "we don't care about this version"
<ogra> System Requirements 
<ogra> The default classroom server installation requires a CPU of at least 1 GHz, at least 256 MB of RAM for the server and an additional 128 MB of RAM per thin client (e.g., a server driving two clients should have at least 512 MB RAM), and at least 2.5 GB of disk space.
<ogra> A standalone Edubuntu workstation requires a CPU of at least 500 Mhz, at least 128 MB of RAM, and at least 2.1 GB of disk space.
<ogra> HedgeMage, ^^^^^^^^^^
<HedgeMage> thanks
<ogra> we should probably add that the live installer needs at least 256M :)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: just finished reading/comparing intro, nice changes.  It's definitely clearer.
<Laser_away> ogra: how much ram does a Edubuntu LTSP server need?
<ogra> Laser_away, read above :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage, hope so
<Laser_away> ogra: oh, that's for Edubuntu? I thought you were talking about that safedesk.com thing
<ogra> nope
<ogra> they require 128M *on the client* as well
<ogra> dapper can live happily with 48M clients
<Laser_away> hmm, I was actually talking with the department sys admin about converting our computer lab ( ~10 computers ) into a LTSP setup
<Laser_away> I was wondering what the server requirements would be
<ogra> the above numbers are the bare minimum ...
<ogra> (i guess 1ghz with 20 clients wont be fun :) )
<cbx33> ogra, we had 9 clients on a Dell D600 laptop
<Laser_away> but a new server ( > 2GHz anyway) with 2-4GB RAM would probably work for 10 clients?
<ogra> all running firefox and openoffice ? 
<ogra> Laser_away, easily
<Laser_away> cool
<cbx33> ogra, most of them
<cbx33> slowed down a little when 3-4 loaded tuxmath
<Laser_away> so do would apps that use opengl work as well on a thin client setup?
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> blender dies
<ogra> you need to twiddle a bit and get them running locally on the client
<ogra> cbx33, only if you render
<cbx33> local apps ogra ?
<ogra> cbx33, feel free to write a spec ;)
* cbx33 would love local apps :p
<cbx33> maybe I'll write one when i finish modelling this house
<cbx33> and finish LTSP
<cbx33> and finish ESA
<ogra> good plan
<ogra> :)
* cbx33 then looks at his workload compared to ogra's and dies
<ogra> haha
<ogra> thats only how it starts :P
<Laser_away> hmm, well several of the chemistry modeling apps use opengl to render :/
<lucasvo> Burgwork: to continue the discussion...
<lucasvo> You think I should use the default font from ubuntu for the logo
<lucasvo> that's boring
<Laser_away> ogra: what do you mean by running locally? do you have to install them on the client?
<ogra> Laser_away, yep
<Burgwork> lucasvo, if you think it is boring, get it changed, don't change it yourself
<ogra> you need DRI access, that doesnt work via network 
<lucasvo> and except for the logo, I want to adapt the ubuntu "style"
<Burgwork> lucasvo, http://gnomejournal.org/ <-- take a look at that
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I know it
<lucasvo> that was what inspired me
<Burgwork> notice that they have not changed the GNOME logo
<lucasvo> I didn't change the ubuntu logo
<Burgwork> yes you did
<lucasvo> I made a new Ubuntu Journal Logo
<lucasvo> which contains the ubuntu emblem
<Burgwork> besides the issue of changing the font, I find the your actually quite ugly
<lucasvo> why?
<Burgwork> the font looks sloppy
<HedgeMage> care to share a link, guys, so the rest of us know what you're talking about?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, ?
<lucasvo> it's a font scanned from a austrian legal taxt 
<Burgwork> oh, joy, so it doesn't even scalke
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuJournal
<lucasvo> and http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/Journal.png
<lucasvo> what scale?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: of course it scales
<lucasvo> it's a TTF font
<Burgwork> can you freely redistribute the font?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> Burgwork: what font would you use?
<Burgwork> I would use the default Ubuntu font
<Burgwork> for better or worse, it is our branding
<lucasvo> I already use the emblem, so why use the ubuntu logo as well
<Burgwork> there are lots of other places we can make the journal rock, without resorting to changing the font of the logo
<lucasvo> I don't think it's necessary to leave the ubuntulogo untuched
<HedgeMage> I wouldn't say it's ugly, but it's a bit hard to read and doesn't really mesh with the other stuff (i.e. it may look out of place)
<lucasvo> btw, where can I get the "ubuntu font"?
<HedgeMage> just another unsolicited, non-expert opinion btw :)
<Burgwork> it is called ubuntutitle I think
<Burgwork> it is in universe
<lucasvo> Burgwork: do you think that's better: http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/UbuntuJournal.png
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: mind if I have a peek? or should I leave you two alone?
<lucasvo> no, your opinion is welcome
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: what do you think in general about the idea?
<HedgeMage> of doing an "ubuntu journal" ?  I think it's very cool *if* we can avoid the trap other distros tend to fall into of making it something interesting only to developers/power-users instead of the whole community
<cbx33> HedgeMage, agreed
* cbx33 gets ready to throw his 2cents in
<HedgeMage> (Gentoo being the exception because developers and power users ARE their whole community, so you can't really fault them LOL)
<ogra> HedgeMage, that was the initial idea of the fridge 
<cbx33> tbh, i think that getting a whole page mockup would be very beneficial
<cbx33> we can worry about fonts later :0
* cbx33 notices the deadly silence
<cbx33> did i hit someone with my coins
<HedgeMage> cbx33: hit someone with coins? huh?
<Laser_away> I don't really understand how it would work
<Laser_away> how is it different than fridge/planet?
<HedgeMage> ogra: the fridge is cool, and *I* read it, but people like my mom (somewhat-reformed technophobe) will be much more comfortable with a familiar format like a magazine, especially if it's offered in print form
<cbx33> HedgeMage, I agree
<cbx33> much as I love online material
<cbx33> I love having a printed thing to stick in my bag to read when in car/train etc
<Laser_away> ok, and so how is this paid for? people by the magazine from lulu?
<HedgeMage> If something will appeal to me and my mom (opposite ends of the spectrum as far as techie comfort/knowledge) it'll appeal to 90% of our user base :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage, agreed
<cbx33> Laser_away, well, there was the talk of advertising, (unconfirmed)
<HedgeMage> (It's an especially apt comparison for Edubuntu since she's been a school teacher for just over 25 years)
<cbx33> indeed
* HedgeMage <3 her mom
<Laser_away> I'm just not sure you can pass the HedgeMage + her mom test
<HedgeMage> brb
<HedgeMage> tt needs me
<Laser_away> btw, I'm not discouraging people from trying, but it seems like any awefully tall order to fill
<Burgwork> lucasvo, much better
<Burgwork> I might want to make the journal part a slightly different size
<cbx33> lucasvo, got a link?
<HedgeMage> okay, folks, I'm back, but I'm cleaning the kitchen while I IRC, so I may be slow-ish to respond
<cbx33> heheh
<HedgeMage> BTW, I was officially talked into throwing a Dapper release day party, so anyone interested in a hot tub / pool party in the Olympia, WA area give me a buzz
<HedgeMage> (USA)
<Burgwork> hmm, might have to fly down
<HedgeMage> you would be very welcome!
<Laser_away> I'd have to fly up
<HedgeMage> if we have Laser_away you could do that, too ;)
<HedgeMage> ack
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: you can come if Laser_away isn't there
<HedgeMage> I started to type "If we have enough people to eat it, I'm making an Edubuntu cake"
<crimsun> I'd have to fly around the world
<HedgeMage> my delete key failed me :P
<Laser_away> ok, I'm really away now for a while :-)
<HedgeMage> I don't know that the party would be exciting enough to merit an expensive flight, but you're all welcome here :)
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 and HedgeMage !
<highvoltage> how are things in edubuntuland?
<cbx33> highvoltage, pm
<highvoltage> i've been away the whole week so far, need to catch up :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, hang on I have meeting notes for you
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<highvoltage> thanks, cbx33 
<cbx33> np
<sbartleylinux> ogra, I think I asked you before but want to confirm.  Will local printer support be working on Dapper LTSP?
<juliux> cbx33, good record!
<cbx33> thanks juliux 
<ogra> sbartleylinux, its untested but should work (its identical code from ltsp.org)
<sbartleylinux> k.  same configs in lts.conf then?
<sbartleylinux> thx.
<Burgwork> this looks like fun http://dinoseq.sourceforge.net/
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<highvoltage> hi P3L|C4N0 
<highvoltage> hi ogra 
<highvoltage> ogra
<ogra> highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi there
<cbx33> ogra
<cbx33> highvoltage, 
<cbx33> sorry thought this was a game
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> JaneW e-mailed me about the css
<highvoltage> between cbx33 and i, we'll definately have it sorted out before the end of the weekend
<ogra> yep, would be good to have that sorted before release at least
<highvoltage> ogra: so it will be bright and colourful again before release for sure
<cbx33> highvoltage, was it the 4.7 upgrade that killed it?
<ogra> shipit is open since today, so there might be more hits
* highvoltage nods
<highvoltage> ah, i see
<highvoltage> cbx33: is editing the FAQ page to update
<highvoltage> i'll add a news item for the shipit as well
<ogra> how do you guys like the new usplash ? 
<cbx33> am I?
<cbx33> :p
<juliux> ogra, nice
<cbx33> i was never sent the information :p
<ogra> juliux, good :)
<cbx33> cos I tried and couldn;t edit
<cbx33> but if you wanna ship it over to me I can do highvoltage 
<ogra> juliux, looks like it will still be tweaked a little
<ogra> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/edu_newsuggestion_0_8_SCALED_BAR.png
<cbx33> ooooooh nice
<cbx33> this will be on LTSP too?
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> ltsp will only have an edubuntu ldm theme for now
<juliux> ogra, i can try to test the rc next week, but at the moment we have only 1/10 from our internet bandwidth
<juliux> ogra, the lwl switch is broken 
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll be dist-upgrading on saturday, then i can give you comment on it
<cbx33> ogra, I will be testing monday
<ogra> i was actually thinking about a specific ltsp usplash, but time is to short
<cbx33> ogra, i agree
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm at a hotel atm, with no bandwidth :(
<juliux> ogra, nice bootsplash
* highvoltage looks on link ogra sent
<highvoltage> ogra: usplash looks ok. is there a way for users to manually install it in chroot by just apt-getting it in there?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i just cant do it from the postinst from edubuntu-artwork and for a big ltsp defaults change its to late
<highvoltage> ok, nice
<ogra> HedgeMage, artwork fixed, you have two themes in the selector now
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> thanx ogra 
<HedgeMage> thanks ogra 
<sbartleylinux> ogra, well, initial testing fails with printing.  All I get in response to test prints is a message that "Network host '192.168.151.120' is busy, down, or unreachable;  will retry in 30 seconds...'
<Burgwork> cbx33, are you going to be around in about 8 hours to work on the ESA?
<cbx33> hmmm 8 hours
* cbx33 counts on his fingers
<cbx33> I'll be around in about an hour
<cbx33> hmm that'll be till 11 my time....then...sleeping....then up at 6 my time - then travelling into work
<cbx33> I'll be in work at about 7:30 my time
<cbx33> which is 
<cbx33> over 8 hours away
<cbx33> does anyone know who owns LTSPHowTo
<ogra> i think either highvoltage or jelkner (or one of his students) created it initally
<cbx33> ok is it good to be moved?
<cbx33> actually it's too old
* cbx33 just noticed this
<cbx33> what are we doing with pages like this?
* LaserJock is excited because he got the department admin to look into Edubuntu/LTSP
<ogra> yay
<cbx33> ogra, anyideas on LTSPHowTo ?
<LaserJock> ogra: you might have a uni Edubuntu setup before you know it ;-)
<cbx33> ooooooooooooooooooh
<mhz> hey guys
<ogra> *G*
<cbx33> hi mhz 
<cbx33> howz it going
<mhz> cool
* ogra dputs the last edubuntu-artwork for today
<mhz> for a moment I thought I had lost the lab I had just installed a few days ago
<cbx33> then you're gonna sleep right ogra ?
<mhz> nah. he never sleeps
<LaserJock> cbx33: ogra sleeps?
<ogra> lest see i'm still allowed 1.5h :)
<cbx33> ogra, has promised to sleep tomorrow
<ogra> we are forced to 
<mhz> !lastnap ogra
<ubotu> mhz: parse error: Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
<mhz> :D
<ogra> company policy ...
<LaserJock> yes, please do
<ogra> nobody is allowed to work tomorrow
<cbx33> !lastnap cbx33
<ubotu> cbx33: My cat's name is Mittens! Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
<mhz> hehehe
<LaserJock> ogra: we don't want you to have a mental breakdown the last week ;-)
<ogra> has anybody ever heard of Bertrand Juglas
<ogra> ?
<mhz> cbx33, any ideas where we can get a whole list of eduapps installed by default?
<cbx33> mhz, most of them should be in the ESA
<mhz> oh, okis
<mhz> most or all?
<ogra> he'll attend paris and lists "lstp, edubuntu, ubuntu, GNOME" as his interests
<cbx33> should be all
<cbx33> who is he?
<LaserJock> we should have a list of all edu apps in Ubuntu and have them catagorized somehow
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i just discovered him on the attendees page
<cbx33> LaserJock, the ESA should help with that, but a broader one would help
<LaserJock> cbx33: I think a troll through Universe would be good :-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, yes
<cbx33> a fantastic and totally time worthy idea
<LaserJock> I had to do that for MOTU Science
<LaserJock> ~ 450 packages
<cbx33> would be a great addition to the Edubuntu site
<cbx33> roll on MOTU Edu
<LaserJock> cbx33: then I made a list tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html
<cbx33> they are all science
<highvoltage> cbx33: i also think LTSPHowTo was Jelkner or Collin Applegate
<cbx33> WOW imagine how many edu ones ther eare
<LaserJock> cbx33: right, but I could do one for edu too ;-)
<cbx33> highvoltage, what do you want to do with that page
<cbx33> it's old ans stale
<highvoltage> mhz: hey mon
<mhz> highvoltage, cool!
<cbx33> gtg for a while guys
<mhz> I need to talk to ya
<mhz> cbx33, no worries, the muffins are still in the oven :)
<highvoltage> k
<highvoltage> cbx33: that page can be deleted
<highvoltage> cbx33: it describes how to install from ltsp.org tarball
<highvoltage> cbx33: not how it should be done
<LaserJock> ok, this is kind of a stupid question, but what would be the best resource for an admin looking into Edubuntu/LTSP?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what do you mean? LTSP specifically?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i suppose that the cookbook would be the resource, specifically
* mhz phone :(
<highvoltage> LaserJock: there's http://www.edubuntu.org/thinclientconfig for thin client setting tuning. that's being included with the edubuntu docs on the cd
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think mostly LTSP, I got the department admin interested but he doesn't know  anything about LTSP but wants to try it out on a spare computer
<highvoltage> ltsp generally works out of the box if the default installation is chosen
<pygi> ogra, will you be able to write those two articles or should we do it?
<highvoltage> which is more or less described at http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<ogra> highvoltage, i updated the screenshots in the edubuntu-docs package
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i think we probably need to have an "LTSP howto" for a machine that was originally installed as a standalone machine
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks!
<highvoltage> ogra: can you upload them to your people space so that i can update them?
<ogra> and ripped out the lts.conf from gettingstarted and instead added a link to the thinclientconfig
<highvoltage> sorry... being silly... i can just get them from the doc package
<highvoltage> ogra: nice
<ogra> just apt-get source edubuntu-docs
<highvoltage> i'll have to do that saturday morning.
<highvoltage> my cell phone bill is killing me this month
<ogra> the lts.conf from gettingstarted was really an old one :)
<sbartleylinux> yep :)
<ogra> note that i indexed all pics to 255 colors, that decreases the size by 2 third and you dont see any difference
<ogra> the current edubuntu-docs package is ~220k big (including all screenshots)
<LaserJock> ogra: is edubuntu-docs online somewhere?
<ogra> my only prob is that we only have 288k left on i386 and i still hadn't the balls to just try if it fts
<ogra> *fits
<ogra> LaserJock, apt-get source edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> ogra: no, I mean ubuntu-docs is also built as html and put on doc.ubuntu.com
<ogra> ah, no
<LaserJock> ok, np, I just wondered
<highvoltage> ogra: excellent :) (the image shrinking)
<ogra> btw, html in yelp looks awful, somehow yelp thinks it needs to exchange sans with nimbus sans
<highvoltage> ogra: to be safe, it might be possible to remove an image or two and just describe the screen in text?
<highvoltage> ew. i don't know yelp. i wander why it would do that?
<highvoltage> btw- does anyone know what OWA stands for in Ubuntu?
<sbartleylinux> ogra, is there any documentation that describes the ltsp client id handling in ubuntu ltsp?  i.e. under ltsp.org, it uses ws001 in lts.conf and hosts and if static ip is used, in dhcpd.conf.  The client then has the id of ws001.  how is this done in ubuntu ltsp?
<LaserJock> ogra: so are the docs in html or xml?
<ogra> highvoltage, i'd rather have some spare space
<ogra> LaserJock, html currently
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm, the doc team shipped html for some time and it looked ok I think, I wonder if the css was different or something
<ogra> sbartleylinux, not at all, since its not really needed, our aim is to aoutomate it all with no need for manual dns setups if possible 
<ogra> might be
<ogra> i just used the css from the browser page (which is a generic ubuntu one with some color changes)
<ogra> i think its a fontconfig prob
<sbartleylinux> ogra, k. so, then how is printing supposed to work? My understanding of the ltsp.org is that you put ws001 in /etc/hosts with the ip associated to that ws.  Thus when you config a printer, say using cups, you point to socket://ws001:9100  
<sbartleylinux> ogra, what designates the ws name to the ip association to the printer port association?
<ogra> hmm, optimal would be if it would pick the ip from the users environment automatically
<ogra> no idea, thats an #ltsp feature
<sbartleylinux> So, there is no intent to configure that functionality into dapper ltsp?
<sbartleylinux> I thought there was.
<mhz> hmm, how is one supposed to run moodle in Edubuntu?
<mhz> Ohh, TuxMath via LTSP is tooooooooooo slooooooow
<ogra> sbartleylinux, i have about 30mins to upload changes to dapper 
<ogra> i doubt i'll find the fix in that time
<ogra> i promise i'll look into it and document the right way asap
<ogra> but i doubt if there has to be done anything to the package that we can do it
<bimberi> highvoltage: Outlook Web Access
<sbartleylinux> ogra, k.  When can I talk with you about this?  This appears to be the final piece of our solution that is still broken and is critical to our ability to use the ubuntu ltsp solution.  
<sbartleylinux> I know you are busy today but if we could talk sometime this week that would be great.
<saugilsr> Is there a plan for an including a method of imaging workstations in edubuntu? 
<ogra> we'll get it working one or the other way
<sbartleylinux> :)
<sbartleylinux> k. 
<sbartleylinux> that is what I needed to know.
<sbartleylinux> thanks and have fun today.
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> saugilsr, not yet, but feel free to create a spec for it ;)
<saugilsr> ogra:  ok.  I happen to be imagining a lab today (win) but i was testing out some OS imaging packages..
<ogra> i think some scripting around partimage and a nework botting grub should work
<ogra> *booting
<saugilsr> ogra:  thats basically what UDPCast and Clonzilla do.. 
<ogra> i've seen some proprietary solutions offering you to boot ltsp or win98 
<saugilsr> ogra: Clonzilla looks interesting but never used it..
<ogra> (funnily on built on top of SuSE)
* saugilsr puts thinking cap on
<ogra> night all
<LaserJock> have fun sleeping, etc.
<cbx33> mhz, you still there?
<cbx33> Burgwork, hopefully I'll see you tomorrow morning then?
<HedgeMage> geeze, what a long phone call!
<Burgwork> cbx33, sure. Where do you live?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> UK
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> HedgeMage, crikey you went away like an hour ago
<Burgwork> cbx33, ah, in that case, hmm
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> right I'm off to bed, I'm shattered
<cbx33> Burgwork, feel free to edit up anything if you get time
<cbx33> I'll be taking it to work with me tomorrow mornin
<HedgeMage> cbx33: 67 minute phone call, eesh!
<Burgwork> cbx33, I plan on working on it tonight, so you will have something edited before your am
<cbx33> about 6:30 UTC
<cbx33> am
<HedgeMage> night night cbx33 
<HedgeMage> ttyl
<mhz> cbx33, yah, I was trying to get more info about Devenix
<cbx33> nn HedgeMage 
<cbx33> mhz, kewl
<cbx33> will chat to you about it tomorrow
<mhz> okis
<mhz> glad to
<cbx33> basically it' a complete php / web dev studio...bootable off of a USB stick
<cbx33> so you can carry not only your documents but your OS wherever you go
<cbx33> oh and it has PHP4 and PHP5 running in aprallel
<cbx33> that's the basics
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress
<cbx33> has my blog posts about it
<cbx33> nn all
<mhz> nn
* mhz neds to sleep too
<mhz> see ya later guys
#edubuntu 2006-05-24
<blue-frog> hi guys anyone to help me restrict a user to log on following a time range pls?
<blue-frog> guys/gals..
<blue-frog> i have weird things happening when i do so
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> I've never tried it, but let me poke around and see what I find
<blue-frog> i explain quickly
<blue-frog> user time restriction works ok
<blue-frog> but
* HedgeMage nods
<blue-frog> as soon as i add account required pam_time.so in /etc/pam.d/common-account
<Burgwork> blue-frog, you want users to only be able to login for a certain amount of time?
<blue-frog> the gksudo doesn't work for my admin account
<blue-frog> burgwork i want them to be able to log on between 15:00 and 17:00
<blue-frog> but if they logon at 16:45 i want them to be disconnected at 17:00
<blue-frog> so far pam_time.so does the trick for the first part
<blue-frog> but if they log on at 16:45 then they can use the puter forever..
<blue-frog> tried timeoutd but i must be using a wrong syntax
<blue-frog> for /etc/timeouts i wrote..
<blue-frog> Al1900-2000:*:joe:*:LOGIN
<blue-frog> but when joe logs on at 17:00 he is not disconnected after one minute as timeoutd is supposed to do
<blue-frog> and timeoutd is running of course
<blue-frog> any idea?
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<HedgeMage> I think you may know more about this particular topic than me... sorry
<HedgeMage> ogra is a good person to ask that kind of thing, when he's around
<blue-frog> :0 ok ty
<HedgeMage> np
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hmm new kernel
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> Burgundavia, 
<Burgundavia> salut cbx33 
<cbx33> howz it going?
<cbx33> I'm just gonna grab my breakfast
<Burgundavia> I have done the reorg, but haven't done the final piece of writing
<cbx33> then I'll be heading off
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what ws the final piece?
<Burgundavia> should have something within the hour
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> well I'll be leaving in about 35 minutes ;)
<cbx33> I'll try to start orgaising screen shots
<Burgundavia> excellent
<cbx33> I think we have all normal apps, but I'll have to get all the edu apps because I don;t think HedgeMage included those in her tarball
<cbx33> right I'm going to eat now
<Burgundavia> we might have some in the repo already
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, you around still?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: not really
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: is it quick?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, I wanted to ask you opinion on the ESA
<Burgundavia> I have a half finished edit, shoudl I commit it?
<Burgundavia> it validates, it just looks ugly
<LaserJock> yeah, I can work on it in the morning if you want
<Burgundavia> ok, will do
<Burgundavia> I will add a comment about what I was thinking
<Burgundavia> Laser_away, committed
<cbx33> mornin all, just poking my head in
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> you'd better not reply, you're supposed to be sleeping
<cbx33> :)
<ajayc> MODERATORS
<ajayc> where r u?
<ajayc> anyone?
<ajayc> EDUBUNTU GOT SHIPT PUT IT IN THE TOPIC
<ajayc> blue-frog: hi
<blue-frog> hi
<ajayc> arent moderatore here?
<ajayc> there is shipit for edubuntu
<ajayc> !help
<ajayc> !topic add shipit.edubuntu.org
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ubotu] : Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dapper/ || shipit.edubuntu.org (ajayc)
<ajayc> !topic add SHIPIT !!! AVAILABLE FOR EDUBUNTU ENJOY!!!
<ajayc> !TOPIC REMOVE -1
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ubotu] : shipit.edubuntu.org (ajayc)
<ajayc> !TOPIC RESTORE
<ajayc> !TOPIC RESTORE 3
<ajayc> !TOPIC add Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu,
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ubotu] : shipit.edubuntu.org (ajayc) || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, (ajayc)
<ajayc>           download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List
<ajayc>           http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |
<ajayc>           Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read before
<ajayc>           installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out
<ajay> !topic add Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ubotu] : shipit.edubuntu.org (ajayc) || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, (ajayc) || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org  (|ajay)
<ajay>           Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read before
<ajay>           installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out
<ajay>           http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dapper/ || shipit.edubuntu.org 
<blue-frog> I installed timeoutd on my breezy, I have a script tiemoutd in /etc/init.d. what command must I use to run timeoutd at boot time, pls? (update-rc?)
<ajay> damn i messed the topic
<ajay> any idea how to restore?
<ajay> !topic add Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read beforeinstalling: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ubotu] : shipit.edubuntu.org (ajayc) || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, (ajayc) || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org  (|ajay) || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read beforeinstalling: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out (ajay)
<ajay> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dapper/ || shipit.edubuntu.org 
<ajay> ahh now its fine
<ajayc> hi guys
<ajayc> anyone there?
<cbx33> hi
<lucasvo> hi
<lucasvo> cbx33: what do you think:  http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/Journal.png or http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/UbuntuJournal.png
<lucasvo> ?
<cbx33> hi
<cbx33> just gotta...hang on
<cbx33> i can't get there at the mo
<lucasvo> proxy?
<cbx33> could you possibly attach it to a wiki opage?
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> it's beingfiltered
<lucasvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuJournal?action=AttachFile
<lucasvo> cbx33: which one do you prefer?
<cbx33>  think ubuntutype.png
<cbx33> as i fits with tubuntu marketting
<lucasvo> hm,
<lucasvo> should it fit the ubuntu marketing?
<cbx33> i think everyone would be much more keen if it did
<lucasvo> we don't do marketing, that's why I don't think it is a good idea
<cbx33> as I think Burgwork mentinoed yesterday, ubuntus marketting has worked really well for them
<cbx33> but it's instant ly recognisable as being ubuntu
<cbx33> the ubuntu identity is really really strong
<lucasvo> I think the emblem is strong enough
<lucasvo> I tried out to do something with scribus
<lucasvo> it was a disaster
<lucasvo> :)
<cbx33> at the end of the day, it is your project and ultimately your decision, but may find people are more willing to help if you are willing to stick to conventions - just my 2cents :p
<lucasvo> :)
<cbx33> scribus is cool,
<cbx33> but needs some learning
<lucasvo> Maybe I can ask www.elevendesign.ch to do the design
<lucasvo> cbx33: well, I wasn't able to write ANY text
<cbx33> filtered
<cbx33> lucasvo: oh?
<lucasvo> I could add pictures and textboxes without problem
<cbx33> i used it for the ESA mock pages
<cbx33> right click a text box and goto edit text
<cbx33> try that
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> opening the story editor or clicking on the white "A" did work
<cbx33> did or didn't
<lucasvo> but then, it didn't reacto to my keyboard intput
<cbx33> hich version
<lucasvo> I could add text files in the story editor
<lucasvo> Scribus Version 1.2.4.1
<cbx33> ah
<lucasvo> ?
<cbx33> i was using 1.3
<cbx33> it's more advanced
<cbx33> brb
<lucasvo> cbx33: but it isn't in dapper
<lucasvo> is there a package
<lucasvo> ?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> i compiled from source :p
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scribus/+bug/45565
<lucasvo> where is the bug channel?
<lucasvo>  #ubuntu-bugs?
<BugMaN> yes
<thundershirt> hi
<thundershirt> anyone there?
<pschulz01> thundershirt: hi there..
<thundershirt> hi pschulz01 
<thundershirt> arent there any ops here?
<thundershirt> cos man i had to change the topic
<thundershirt> to tell shipit is available for edubuntu
<cbx33> !seen bluekuja
<ubotu> bluekuja <n=andrea@ubuntu/member/bluekuja> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 1d 13h 18m 46s ago, saying: 'cya #edubuntu'.
<lucasvo> cbx33: can you give me some info about your proxy
<lucasvo> I want my hosting provider to look that they unblock it
<cbx33> well, it's being blocked as a "personal website"
<cbx33> it's nothing to do with your hosting company
<lucasvo> why?
<thundershirt> ahh someone
<thundershirt> no op here?
<cbx33> no
<thundershirt> had to change topic myself
<thundershirt> to tell bout shipit
<cbx33> hoping to be at some point :p
<lucasvo> thundershirt: wait till ogra is around 
<lucasvo> he'll fix it
<thundershirt> i put there in the topic
<cbx33> ogra should be sleeping
<thundershirt> shipit.edubuntu.org
<lucasvo> thundershirt: I already ordered cd's there
<thundershirt> me too
<lucasvo> cbx33: the edubuntu fonts are crap
<lucasvo> 45565
<lucasvo> cbx33: why is it a personal site?
<lucasvo> what are you allowed to see?
<cbx33> presumably because of the .ch
<lucasvo> ???
<lucasvo> why that?
<lucasvo> vincisolutions.org works?
<lucasvo> cbx33: that is discrimination!
<cbx33> lucasvo: tell me about it
<lucasvo> all CH domains get blocked
<cbx33> vincisolutions.org is blocked too
<cbx33> give me another .ch domain
<lucasvo> www.switch.ch
<lucasvo> that probably works
<lucasvo> http://www.nescafair.ch.vu/
<lucasvo> www.eggdrop.ch
<cbx33> http://www.nescafair.ch.vu/ works
<lucasvo> cbx33: which one DO work?
<lucasvo> http://www.scherr.ch.vu/ works?
<cbx33> eggdrop works
<cbx33> sorry doesnt
<lucasvo> (same IP)
<lucasvo> www.weyland.ch
<lucasvo> ?
<cbx33> last one is apparently DNS error
<lucasvo> huh
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> http://blog.weyland.ch/
<lucasvo> cbx33: and what about switch.ch?
<cbx33> that works
<lucasvo> switch or blog.weyland.ch?
<cbx33> grr
<blue-frog> am at a loss to achieve the following. joe can only log in and use gdm from 3pm ot 5pm. if he logs in at 4.45pm he must be disconnected at 5pm. fiddled with pam_time and timeoutd but can't achieve what I want, hints/help most welcomed
<saugilsr> blue-frog: did u see this link? http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Linux/Linux_Administration/Q_20974796.html
<saugilsr> might be usefull
<blue-frog> looking at it right away ty
<saugilsr> blue-frog: has a script at the bottom to use in a cron job..
<blue-frog> hum as it is said in the comment, the solution is kind of disgracefull :(
<saugilsr> blue-frog: yeah  its not the best.. thought it might lead to another idea.. 
<blue-frog> yep seems to me though no programs have been implemented to act like this so I may be forced to write a funky script
<blue-frog> I have difficulty though to believe that am the first one to encounter such a problem
<blue-frog> and that pam_time only checks at login time and no more afterwards
<blue-frog> also a weird behavior with pam_time, as soon as I put account required pam_time.so in common-account, gksudo keeps telling me password is wrong while sudo in console still works fine
<saugilsr> that is strange
<cbx33> blue-frog: very strange :p
<blue-frog> and in the auth log it tells me about pam_time can't get the tty name
<cbx33> but then i have had problems with pam and other stuff too
<blue-frog> and sudo authentication failure  while I was calling gksudo
<lucasvo> lol
<lucasvo> cbx33: for that spec I got about 10000 karma :)
<jryer> Urgente/ayuda - Where can I download language support for spanish? Donde se descarga soporte de idiomas para espaniol?
<jryer> Where can I download language support for spanish? Donde se descarga soporte de idiomas para espaniol? I need to install edubuntu spanish in a lab without internet from a CD.
<blue-frog> have you installed spanish language on your laptop?
<blue-frog> or your desktop
<jryer> Where can I download language support for spanish? Donde se descarga soporte de idiomas para espaniol? I need to install edubuntu spanish in a lab without internet -- from a CD
<blue-frog> have you installed spanish language on your laptop?
<blue-frog> or your desktop
<jryer> Yes
<blue-frog> then you could copy /var/cache/apt/archives on a dvd and use it in the lab
<jryer> That easy? Is it that big that it needs to be a DVD?
<blue-frog> archives is big in the end.. now you could trace aonly the packages needed for the internationalisation and only copy them
<blue-frog> or put yourlaptop (if any) in the lab network so you don't need to copy but only share /var/cache/apt/archives
<blue-frog> then use dkpg -i package name
<blue-frog> then use dkpg -i package_name
<blue-frog> then use dpkg -i package_name got it right this time
<jryer> How do I share /var/cache/apt/archives?
<blue-frog> adminstration/shared folders
<ajayc> ogra, hi
<jsgotangco> yo!11
<ajayc> yo
<mhz> moin you all
<lucasvo> hi mhz 
<ajayc> morning
<mhz> hi lucasvo 
<ajayc> man i never get reply
<mhz> could you solve your issue with dhcp?
<lucasvo> ajayc: what for?
<ajayc> lucasvo, ?????
<lucasvo> which question?
<ajayc> no question
<ajayc> :P
<lucasvo> aha
<lucasvo> ajayc: how much karma do you have? :{
<lucasvo> :P
<ajayc> dunno
<ajayc> :)
* lucasvo has 10894
<lucasvo> but that's not very much
<ajayc> LOL
<lucasvo> ajayc: don't you know LP karma?
* mhz believes highvoltage has a loooot
<lucasvo> mhz: what's up?
<lucasvo> mhz: are you willing to write an article?
<mhz> again?
<lucasvo> again???
* mhz has just written 2
<lucasvo> about what
<mhz> oh, but in spanish
* lucasvo is talking about UbuntuJournal (->Wiki)
<mhz> about Edubuntu and the other about How FLOSS is key for sustainable development
<mhz> lucasvo: oh, sure!
<mhz> lucasvo: shipit is taking orders for ubuntu cd's
<mhz> any ideas for edubuntu?
<ajayc> how do u get chanserv to ur channel?
<jsgotangco> mhz: we will probably have that too with a limited print run
<jsgotangco> but only for x86
<mhz> jsgotangco: thx, mon
<mhz> jsgotangco: but not just yet?
<jsgotangco> mhz: i have no details atm
<LaserJock> JaneW: ping?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: we can wish
<LaserJock> she must be very busy :-)
<JaneW> LaserJock: I am here kind of
<mhz> hmmm, bad girl
<JaneW> although mdz chided me as we are meant to have the day off :)
* jsgotangco needs a day off to ge#t rid of the alcohol in his bloodsteram
<mhz> jsgotangco: come on! you dont want that ;)
<jsgotangco> what i dont want day off?
<mhz> jsgotangco: get rid of alchool
<jsgotangco> no way dude it stays int he blood but not in my brain
<michel> help: we try to install a digital machine digital pc 3000 as client of edubuntu ltsp the graphic is not coming, any idea?
<jsgotangco> i had like 5 shots of tequila and im almost done
<JaneW> jsgotangco: bad boy
<mhz> jsgotangco: hmmm, the only alchool I like to drink is a brazilian one: Caipirina or some spelling like that
<jsgotangco> JaneW: hush, im inspired at the moment to write a release announcement
<michel> help: we try to install a digital machine digital pc 3000 as client of edubuntu ltsp the graphic is not coming, any idea?
<mhz> jsgotangco: lol
<JaneW> jsgotangco: DOIT
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but let me proof read it!
<mhz> "Efrubuntu is.. a b erry cool distro aimedz forz zchools.."
<jsgotangco> mhz: i will probably smuggle dope wars into edubuntu soon
<jsgotangco> and a cokctail app
<mhz> hehehe
<jsgotangco> bamenda: digital machine is a brand/??
<mhz> JaneW: any ideas when edubuntu cd's can be ordered? Any ideas on the design of cd labels?
<bamenda> ???
<bamenda> we are in cameroon and we install ltsp please help us
<mhz> ?
* mhz is lost
* mhz pressed wrong 'X' button
<LaserJock> darn it, I do that all the time in Firefox when I just want to close a tab and I end up closing the whole thing
<jsgotangco> use epiphany :)
<crimsun> that's why I use links!
<crimsun> (sometimes I think the only reason I use gnome is to have dozens of terminal emulators open)
<jsgotangco> skype just worked with gdebi in edubuntu and didnt ask for deps
<jsgotangco> lol
<LaserJock> gdebi is supposed to do dep resolution?
<crimsun> it does. Quite wonderfully, I might add.
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> at least skype isnt an issue now for users in dapper
<jsgotangco> unlike before which made people do awful hacks
<LaserJock> cool, I'll have to try gdebi out some time, I don't often use .debs outside the repos
<crimsun> if you click on a random deb, it uses gdebi automatically.
<jsgotangco> yeah
* crimsun squashes another boog
<jsgotangco> it doest even need a manual
<JaneW> mhz: shipit.edubuntu.com
<LaserJock> well, usually I just use wget and dpkg -i
<LaserJock> but gdebi sounds nice if I'm in a GUI mood
<crimsun> LaserJock is hardcore like that. :-)
<mhz> JaneW: and could we have some kind of additional info to fill in?
<mhz> such as Organization name, intended use in Labs?
<mhz> etc
<jsgotangco> JaneW: is Claire Newman new???
<LaserJock> crimsun: not so much hardcore, but I'm never on my Ubuntu box so I'm always ssh'ing in
<Yagisan> umm, crimsun, how does gdebi work with 3rd party repos ?
<jsgotangco> it still relies on your sources.list
<LaserJock> how cool
<Yagisan> ok. so it doesn't help for me then
<jsgotangco> just think of it as a setup.exe that looks elsewhere for other required apps
<jsgotangco> if needed
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: in my case, it would need to look in the 3rd party repos to find the unmet deps
<jsgotangco> yes
<mhz> Yagisan: hi mon!!!
<mhz> Yagisan: iirc, you got lots of experience on playing games in Linux?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: but if it already needs those repos added to the sources.list, then I'll just leave the instructions to use synaptic or aptitude up.
<Yagisan> mhz: some, what's up ?
<cameroon1> hello chanceline
<mhz> I was contacted by a friend who lives out of a cybercaffee
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: in your case that is true, but for some small apps that publish their own debs but rely on standard deps in the archives, its easy for some users
<jsgotangco> skype for instance
<mhz> and saw Edubuntu in action, Yagisan and he loved it
<mhz> so,
<mhz> I said "let's use Edubuntu for both Edu purposes and Cyber purposes"
<jsgotangco> Cyber
<jsgotangco> lol
<mhz> it was all cool until
<jsgotangco> does he mean sexual in nature?
<mhz> he mentioned that at nights, all kids wanted to play on line games
<mhz> jsgotangco: you had too many tequilas hehehe
<jsgotangco> yes
<cameroon1> any eperience with edubuntu and cybecafe?
<mhz> jsgotangco: and I wish you are not using edubuntu gilrl background
<jsgotangco> mhz: no i now have an edubuntu chinese girl in front of me
<cameroon1> which programm direqcafe?
<Yagisan> mhz: I have some not so good news for you
<mhz> else you may be considering she's a japaneese school girl
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ??
<mhz> Yagisan: ?
<Yagisan> mhz: the thin clients have *no* accelerated opengl
<mhz> oooohhhhhhh
<cameroon1> not funny 
<jsgotangco> i need to sober up
<mhz> that's why TuxMath sucked via LTSP
<jsgotangco> mhz: it does?
<jsgotangco> tuxmath need opengl?
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup
<mhz> dont know if need it
<jsgotangco> mhz: a math game needs opengl?
<mhz> BUt sucked
<Yagisan> mhz: and that basically stops gaming :( I get 1fps on doomsday on a client, and almost 200fps on same spec but disked box
<jsgotangco> yeah i would have believed you if it was Quake Math
<mhz> I used a 2.x GHz AMD processor and 1 GHz of RAM
<mhz> and 4 thin clients
<mhz> over 10/100 network
<mhz> i played TxMath in one... it scuked
<mhz> sucked
<mhz> Yagisan: ohh
<jsgotangco> i goota sleep
<jsgotangco> ciao
<LaserJock> mhz: yeah, ogra told me yesterday that opengl wouldn't relly work over ltsp
<Yagisan> mhz: I, uh, discovered this issue about 6 or so months ago
<mhz> Yagisan: so, solution would be: "install ubuntu boxes for gaming" and use Edubuntu on day time?
<LaserJock> mhz: I want to put some molecule rendering apps in but that wouldn't work so well unless the app was installed locally
<mhz> Yagisan: iiirc I believed you mentioned that
<mhz> hmmm, would local devices work on clients?
<mhz> like LiveCd ?
<mhz> Yagisan: so, a Cyber could still use Linux for Gaming?
<Yagisan> mhz: for now yes, an ubuntu box for gaming. ogra didn't have time in this development periods to help me investigate this, maybe in edgy with local apps and l-r-m we can get opengl working, but that would need a semi-decent thin client
<Yagisan> mhz: yes, you can. depends on the games though
<mhz> Yagisan: afaik, Dapper is "stable" sales point, while Edgy is "eye candy" sales point
<mhz> or not?
<Yagisan> mhz: you really need either nvidia or a gpl'ed dri driver. ati binary isn't good for gaming
<mhz> Yagisan: sure, Nvidia or GPL'ed dri driver
<Yagisan> mhz: possibly. myself, I prefer stable in all releases
<mhz> Yagisan: so clustomers may decide to reboot into ubuntu for gaming, or just PXE booting for normal use
<michel> help: we try to install a digital machine digital pc 3000 as client of edubuntu ltsp the graphic is not coming, any idea?
<mhz> michel: i dont understand "digital machine digital pc 3000"
<LaserJock> mhz: the model of computer he is running
<mhz> oooh
<Yagisan> mhz: yes, that would work well. need to edit the grub menu though. not to hard.
<mhz> sure
<mhz> piece of cake
<mhz> Yagisan: and which games are for sure okidoki for linux?
<mhz> Quake?
<mhz> Age of Emprires?
<Yagisan> mhz: basically install ubuntu, that add pxe as an option and make it default. then hit up rom-o-matic for the images
<michel> this is a digital PC the graphic card is S3 on board
<Yagisan> mhz: ok. my general rule is, don't bother for the windows only games
<Yagisan> mhz: they usually have copy protection crap that causes them to not run well (if at all)
<mhz> Yagisan: sure, but I am ignorant on games, you know. My only games in computers is Tetris and Xgalaga + Gcompris :D
<Yagisan> michel: no graphics on thin client or server ?
<mhz> michel: do thin clients boot up (get dhcp and see them booting?)
<michel> yes no graphic 
<michel> on the client
<michel> yes
<michel> it is ok until it should come to login but the light of the monitor turn to no signal
<Yagisan> mhz: ok. TTBOMK, at the moment doom 3, quake 4, enemy territory, termulous, nexiuz, america's army, are all popular
<Yagisan> michel: your monitor does not support the video mode the client is trying to use
<mhz> Yagisan: wow, that should cover most preferences
<mhz> i suppose
<ogra> michel, did you follow the install notes (see channel topic)
<Yagisan> michel: if you have one in front of you, try pressing crtl, alt, and - at the same time
<Yagisan> mhz: only a few. my doomsday is also nice, but not so widely played
<michel> ok i will try with another monitor thanks
<Yagisan> mhz: then there are games like wesnoth
<ogra> michel, also which version of edubuntu do you use ? breezy or dapper ?
<Yagisan> michel: this can be fixed, but we need to work out what the monitor can handle
<Yagisan> michel: because the video card can't tell (perhaps the monitor is old)
<ogra> Yagisan, the x autodetection usually detects s3 cards right ...
<Yagisan> ogra: yes, but old monitors don't have dcc
<ogra> right, then it falls back to 1024x786 by default
<Yagisan> ogra: yep, which usually doesn't work on a 15 inch or less
<kgoetz> is ogra around at all?
<ajayc> how to get chanservto a channel?
<kgoetz> i'm wondering which edubuntu theme is default (plain or colours)
<ogra> nope, i'm not here (i'd risk my job if i'd be)
<kgoetz> ajayc: it joins creation of a new channel
<kgoetz> ogra: ok, :)
<ogra> kgoetz, colors with the chalkboard wallpaper
<ajayc> kgoetz, it didnt i created #vlos
<ajayc> come there
<michel> ogra: edubuntu 5.10
<kgoetz> ogra: thanks. when i first set up edubntu it was still 'custom theme', so i set it to human, i'm trying to find out what eudubuntu looks like :)
<michel> breezy
<ogra> michel, and you followed the install notes to set it up ?
<kgoetz> *edubuntu (x2)
<ajayc> HI ogra 
<ajayc> man u op here?
<ogra> ajayc, we dont want OPs in here
<ajayc> no no
<ogra> there is a list of people that can op or de-op
<ajayc> i just wanted the topic to be updated
<ogra> but we usually dont use it
<ajayc> i did that myself later
<kgoetz> ogra: can i sugest you make the colours theme sugest the blackboard background? or is that more effort then it's worth
<ogra> so update it :)
<ajayc> messed up
<ajayc> see it
<ajayc> i wated to just put SHIPIT!!! in the starting
<ajayc> kgoetz, come to #vlos for a sec
<mhz> Yagisan and ogra, nice knowledge of hardware you 2 have!
* Yagisan was an op here once. It was nice for a short while
<kgoetz> woot. edubuntu look'n'feel
<michel> ogra: yes
* mhz would be still figuring out
<Yagisan> mhz: when I was younger, I wrote my own to os in assembler
<Yagisan> s/to/toy
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every wednesday at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out
<Yagisan> mhz: I discovered that some hardware was a real pain-in-the arse to use and detect
<kgoetz> Yagisan: :o you ...
<mhz> Yagisan: eeeek, assembler!!! man, you are ld :D
<mhz> old
<Yagisan> mhz: and fixing the stuff for several years helps
* mhz bows before Yagisan 
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper beta is out
<Yagisan> mhz: I love assembler. great fun (until you reach 3 pages)
<ogra> sorry for the noise
<kgoetz> haha
<ajayc> please can someone tell me whose nick stays online always
<Yagisan> kgoetz: yes ?
<Yagisan> ajayc: ubotu ;)
<ajayc> can i get ubotu to #vlos
<kgoetz> Yagisan: (02:21:24) Yagisan: mhz: when I was younger, I wrote my own to os in assembler
<kgoetz> ^ that 
* mhz still believes we need extra info/fileds in shipit form so we can do some follow up, just educational purposes
<ogra> kgoetz, just create a new user, it will use the edubuntu default theme
<Yagisan> ajayc: did you see the ;)
<ajayc> Yagisan, what?
<ajayc> ahh ok
<kgoetz> ogra: i got it sused, thanks :)
<ogra> kgoetz, also sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork ;)
<ajayc> no i mean can i get ubotu there?
<kgoetz> oh, lol. didnt think of that
* Yagisan really should note, humor doesn't work well on irc
<mhz> Yagisan: it does...
<kgoetz> nighta lll
<mhz> nn
<kgoetz> it's past my bedtime
<Yagisan> night kgoetz
<kgoetz> later all
<mhz> ogra: can we then remove tuxMath from Dapper ? :D
<mhz> I mean if we know it will suck in LTSP env.
<mhz> end-users (ltsp users_ may balme on Edubuntu
<mhz> Yagisan: and those games you mention, are all GPL'ed license ?
* mhz would love to have illutrations like these for Edubuntu
<mhz> http://www.rmichelson.com/Artist_Pages/Diterlizzi/Tony_Diterlizzi_Gallery-New.html
<Yagisan> mhz: sadly no. most a closed source
<mhz> Yagisan: oh, I see
<Yagisan> mhz: the open source ones are
<mhz> but they run in Linux, at least
<Yagisan> mhz: termulous, nexiuz, wesnoth, doomsday
<Yagisan> mhz: enemy territory and america's army are free of charge, but closed source
<mhz> Yagisan: one last question... do you know of any app that can be useful to control how long a workstation has been conected to internet? (kind of for Cybers)
<mhz> or a GUI app that can let us stop what a station is doing?
<Yagisan> mhz: off hand, no
<mhz> Yagisan: nice info
<mhz> no worries
<mhz> I'll keep looking
<mhz> Yagisan: THX a lot for useful info
<Yagisan> mhz: what sort of games are you looking for
<Yagisan> mhz: I have some links for you
<mhz> cool!
<mhz> I dont know
<mhz> I have never played anything besides pon, tetris and xgalaga and nvaders
<mhz> (ncurses)
<Yagisan> mhz: you should try my game :)
<mhz> sure, screenshots?
* mhz will prepare a doc for the Cyber
* mhz want to use the Cyber as a classroom
<mhz> esp. on those lazy hours
<Yagisan> mhz: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/ss/
<mhz> Yagisan: i promise, if they buy the idea, you'll be the one in charge of security
<Yagisan> mhz: as in $$ ??
<mhz> the only prob. is that we'llbe talking chilean fees :(
<mhz> yup
* Yagisan would love a new gig right now
<mhz> they said "show us a proposal"
<mhz> tey liked Edubuntu idea very much, esp. when they noticed that there is no Cyber for edu purposes
<Yagisan> mhz: here we go http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Native_Games
<mhz> hehe, that ws my sales argument
<Yagisan> ogra: so, opengl on the clients for edgy ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: one last thing before i go to lunch
<Yagisan> mhz: shoot
<mhz> please refresh my memory.. why "your game"?
<Yagisan> mhz: I am one of the upstream developers
<mhz> ooooh
<Yagisan> mhz: I basically make sure it doesn't break on linux
<mhz> nice
<Yagisan> mhz: and I tend to do janitorial fixes, and design stuff
<mhz> for free as well? ;)
* mhz gets pulled to lunch!
<Yagisan> mhz_Lunch: : yes (some conditions). free data too, but it doesn't yet work correctly with it, 
<cbx33> Goooooooooooooooooooooooooood evenin all
<cbx33> mhz_Lunch, wlecome to the Schools advocacy team
<cbx33> thanks JaneW for authorising
<cbx33> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 20h 56m 2s ago, saying: 'btw- does anyone know what OWA stands for in Ubuntu?'.
<cbx33> anyone elase have access to the edubuntu server?
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<LaserJock> cbx33: hehe, did you have some caffeine tonight?
* cbx33 no touch caffine :p
<cbx33> well unless it's in Cok
<cbx33> Coke
<Yagisan> cbx33: where is it. I'll see if I can get access ;)
* cbx33 was actually addicted to Diet Coke
<cbx33> Yagisan :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: yes, coke has about the same level of caffeine as a strong coffee
<cbx33> Yagisan, so how good are you at that, I practice a little of the black arts myself at times :p
<cbx33> highvoltage was supposed to zip up the edubuntu theme so I could work on it and fix it, but un fortunately he hasn;t been on
<Yagisan> cbx33: relatively good, but my best work is from a social engineering standpoint. the humans are far easier to work on. I also don't call it black arts when describing it to potential customers.
<cbx33> Yagisan, of course
<cbx33> coersive measures ?
<Yagisan> cbx33: often no. If you look like you know what you are doing, no one stops you
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> have read a few books on it
<Yagisan> cbx33: experience is much more fun
<cbx33> i'd bet
<Yagisan> cbx33: when I get asked to explain my business, it often starts like this "Ever see the movie sneakers ?"
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'd love to do that kind of thing for a job
<cbx33> just not that good at it yet :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: it is a really really hard sell
<cbx33> oh yeh
<Yagisan> cbx33: but the work itself is fun
* cbx33 was thinking of trying some social engineering experiments at work
* Yagisan would like the cash to do up a van a-la-sneakers
<cbx33> hehehh
<Yagisan> cbx33: I live next to a bank
<cbx33> hahaha
<cbx33> :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: you would not believe what I hear in the car park
<cbx33> really?
<Yagisan> cbx33: really.
<cbx33> oh do tell :p
<cbx33> not specifics of course
<cbx33> "todays security code is"
<cbx33> read the art of deception ?
<Yagisan> cbx33: I've never been inside it (no my bank), but eg I know which cameras are real, and which are not
<Yagisan> cbx33: mitnick's book - no
<cbx33> it's a good read,
<cbx33> but then you'd probably have read much like it anyway
* cbx33 really enjoed "The art of Exploitation"
<cbx33> by Erickson
<pawsilver> hi there
<cbx33> hi pawsilver 
<Yagisan> cbx33: I do have a thick section of those books. actually, never did see mitnicks book in a book shop here
<pawsilver> Can some one help me?
<cbx33> pawsilver, we can try
<cbx33> shoot
<cbx33> Yagisan, shell code fastinates me
<Yagisan> cbx33: makes it work learning assembler
<Yagisan> s/work/worth
<cbx33> indeed
<pawsilver> I am getting this error "E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
<pawsilver>      E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?"
<cbx33> pawsilver, you should run that commane as sudo
<cbx33> so do
<cbx33> sudo ........
<cbx33> pawsilver, am I right in thinking you are trying to install something?
<Yagisan> cbx33: I will be mailing out a svn build of doomsday tonight
<Yagisan> cbx33: crap, it's 4am
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> Yagisan, crikey man, get some rest
<cbx33> I could chat to you all evening
<cbx33> :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: let me amend that, I will be emailing out a svn build this morning
<pawsilver> yes
<pawsilver> I'm trying to reset my synaptic pakage manager
<cbx33> reset?
<cbx33> Yagisan, so I'm guessing you don;t hve legitimate access to the edubuntu server :p
<pawsilver> I'm getting this error on start up "E: Malformed line 38 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (dist)
<pawsilver> E: The list of sources could not be read.
<pawsilver> Go to the repository dialog to correct the problem."
<cbx33> what is line 38 in sources.lise?
<pawsilver> startup of synaptic package manager that is
<pawsilver> Don't know where to look
<cbx33> can you paste the contents o /etc/apt/sources.list
<cbx33> to a pastebin
<pawsilver> pastebin?
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/
<cbx33> just paste into there
<pawsilver> I can find /etc/apt/sources.list
<pawsilver> ok
<cbx33> then send me the link to that page
<pawsilver> http://pastebin.ca/57137
<pawsilver> done it !
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> try commenting out line 38
<pawsilver> which is line 38?
<cbx33> look at pastebin
<cbx33> it has line numbers
<cbx33> (it's the bottom one)
<pawsilver> ok the last one
<cbx33> Burgundavia, you alive man?
<cbx33> or are you working?
<pawsilver> oops thats the one i tried to add and then i had all the problems
<Burgundavia> cbx33, alive and feeling sick
<pawsilver> do i add one # or two to comment it out?
<cbx33> pawsilver, just one
<pawsilver> thanx
<cbx33> Burgundavia, oh dear
<Burgundavia> I will dig into esa right now
<pawsilver> cbx33, It won't allow me to change the file
<cbx33> permission denied?
<pawsilver> yes
<cbx33> you have to be root
<cbx33> so from the command line type
<pawsilver> how do i do that?
<cbx33> gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> add sudo to the front of that
<cbx33> sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<pawsilver> ok done! thanx
<pawsilver> i will test it now
<cbx33> ok
<Yagisan> cbx33: no, I don't have access to the edubuntu server. I can't even upload software, I need to harass others to do it for me
<cbx33> Yagisan, know anyone who does have access?
<Yagisan> cbx33: well, I don't actually know which particular server you are after, but the fountain of knowledge around here is usually ogra JaneW and highvoltage. 
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'm just here as window dressing
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ogra, JaneW, highvoltage WHERE ARE YOOOUUU !
<Burgundavia> cbx33, ogra and JaneW are on vacation today
<cbx33> I know Burgundavia 
<cbx33> i was just thinking wishfully
<saugilsr> is there a special place for edubuntu specs? or do they all get placed in the same Ubuntu launchpad area?
<LaserJock> they are in the Ubuntu LP
<saugilsr> LaserJock: thanks.
<Yagisan> cbx33: so, think you'll have time to test doomsday this weekend ?
<Burgundavia> cbx33, edubutu difference section has been finished
<Burgundavia> committed
<Burgundavia> cbx33, are you working on the doc at all?
<mhz_Lunch> re
<Burgundavia> salut Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey
<Burgundavia> heard anything from willow boy?
<Amaranth> nope
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> cbx33, ESA is all yours
<mhz> cbx33: oh, thx for the welcome
<mhz> I am glad to have some window time to contribute to Edubuntu
* mhz remembers the very first days of edubuntu..
* mhz remembers ogra did not know stress :D
* mhz remembers Henrik Omma was trying to do some stuff in MoinMoin and he used to ask me... now he's a master :D
<mhz> Laser_away: ping
<mhz> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> Burgundavia, thanks
<cbx33> could you do me a favour and show my how to put images in?
<cbx33> mhz, hi
<cbx33> bb in baout 10-15 mins
<mhz> cbx33: images in Moin?
* mhz has already convinced 2 people to translate ESA into spansih
* mhz just waits for the GO
<Burgwork> mhz, images in docbook
<Burgwork> cbx33, take a look at the other ones for how
<mhz> oh, okis
<Burgwork> Laser_away, hmm, away, eh. can you take a peak at the difference section in ESA now?
<cbx33> thanx mhz just read the translation stuff about ESA
<mhz> cbx33: so, is that a GO ?
<cbx33> mhz, no
<cbx33> not yet
<mhz> oh
<mhz> hehehe
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> just mneed to do final
<cbx33> checking
<mhz> okis
<lucasvo> hi
<cbx33> hi lucasvo 
<Burgwork> cbx33, are we going to send it for translation this weekend?
* lucasvo wants this http://www.alcatel.com/enterprise/en/products/phones/ip_phones/8_series/4068/features.html
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: can you give me infos about the proxy your school uses?
<Yagisan> I need to feed my kids and grab some sleep. I'll be back in about 8 hours or so
<Yagisan> message me if you need me
<cbx33> Burgwork, I'd like to
<cbx33> I'm able to work on it some tomorrow, like for images and such
<cbx33> hopefully a little tonight
<Burgwork> cbx33, ok. The only thing I see needing work is to change the various ktouch, etc. to what they do
<cbx33> just been called in to move the lounge around :p
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i can do that tomorrow
<cbx33> UTC wise what tie will you be around till tomorrow morning
<cbx33> lucasvo, they filter through something called websense
<Burgwork> I am UTC-7, so likely not until 17:00 UTC at earliest
<cbx33> right, that shuild be ok, gives me time to work in the morning my time
<cbx33> how much longer you gonna be around now?
<cbx33> in hours?
<Burgwork> 4, maybe 6
<cbx33> ok i may be back i na while
<cbx33> bout 20-30 mins
<cbx33> we can hopefully have a chat then
<mhz> cbx33: re
<mhz> cbx33: you work at a school?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I do
<mhz> and you have an edubuntu lab?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> Burgwork, you there?
<mhz> any page with details?
<cbx33> not as yet, we're still in the setting up phase
<cbx33> trying to get active directory integration going
<Burgwork> cbx33, yep
<cbx33> wht's the svn repo again
<cbx33> I want to download onto this computer
<cbx33> i need the address
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<cbx33> thanx
<cbx33> Burgwork, I have a few changes I'd like you to take a look at
<cbx33> shall I diff and mail to you
<Burgwork> cbx33, sure, but I have no way of applying it here at work
<cbx33> what address?
<Burgwork> corey.burger@gmail.com
<cbx33> sent
<cbx33> btw Burgwork excellent work on that section
<cbx33> :D - a big thank you from me
* mhz wanna see that url now :D
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/SchoolAdvocacy/C/school-advocacy.xml
<LaserJock> I'm back
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> LaserJock, howz you
<cbx33> I thought you said you were back :p
<LaserJock> talking to the wife on the phone real quick ;-)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> LaserJock, seen Burgwork's recent changes?
<cbx33> I just submitted a patch to him but he can't apply it from there
<LaserJock> not quite yet, I've been busy all day getting a passport and registering a new vehicle and paying for insurance, etc.
<cbx33> Paris?
<LaserJock> cbx33: want me to apply it?
<LaserJock> the passport, yes
<cbx33> well do you wanna have a quick look at what I chagned see if it makes sense
<cbx33> shall I mail to you?
<cbx33> mail addy?
<LaserJock> mantha (at) ubuntu.com
<cbx33> sent
<cbx33> see if it makes sense
<LaserJock> hmm, is it Saturday in Germany yet? ;-)
<cbx33> hmm...dunno
<cbx33> you thinking if pgra is working again yet :p
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I was thinking about a spec he wanted and I wanted to talk to him about it more, but it can really wait until after June 1 :-)
<LaserJock> I'm just getting antsy
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> what's it for?
<LaserJock> dynamic menus
<cbx33> nice
<LaserJock> basically, the Applications menu changes depending on what meta-packages are installed and what group the user is in, or something like that
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> sound like a cool idea
<cbx33> like custom menus for users
<cbx33> or user groups?
<LaserJock> not sure
<cbx33> heh
<LaserJock> I sort of understand the "menus depend on meta-packages" part, but I'm not sure exactly what he wants as far as the user dependency
<cbx33> ah right
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if it is supposed to be a per user thing or per group thing
<cbx33> right I'm gonna crash out
<cbx33> my head is pounding again
<cbx33> block nose
<LaserJock> cbx33: ok, I'll look at your diff and apply it
<LaserJock> cbx33: again?
<cbx33> only if you think it's an improvement
<cbx33> yup again
<cbx33> it's turned into a major cold now
<cbx33> and I'm feeling really rough
<cbx33> will finish up on ESA tomorrow
<cbx33> ready to release for translation
<cbx33> if you get a chance could you have a chat to Burgwork about his ideas for changing the applications section
<cbx33> and send me some notes
<LaserJock> k
<Burgwork> LaserJock, I can chat now
<cbx33> I'll work on that omrrow when I get up
<LaserJock> Burgwork: ok
<cbx33> Burgwork, I'll sitck around fro a sec then :p
<cbx33> till my head explodes
<Burgwork> cbx33, you can go and sleep
<Burgwork> LaserJock, The only thing I see needing work is to change the various ktouch, etc. to what they do
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I agree, people want to know what the apps *do*
<cbx33> i think Burgwork was talking about shortening it right?
<LaserJock> paragraph per area? with no detailed listing? more narrative?
<Burgwork> cbx33, the shortening was to the difference section, which is done
<cbx33> oh right
<cbx33> you said shorten the apps descripstion to one sentence though didnt you?
<LaserJock> cbx33: how current is the wiki version of ESA?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, very old
<Burgwork> I was thinkinga bout that
<LaserJock> k
<Burgwork> I now think we should merge the "Tools" and "Education Apps" section into one
* cbx33 had a merge ready
<cbx33> for the wiki
<cbx33> but then Burgwork made more changes :p
<Burgwork> we can build the moin out of the docbook at the end, if needed
<LaserJock> yeah, I just need to do a couple things to be able to render the docbook, just takes a sec
<cbx33> Burgwork, yes please
<cbx33> as people are wanting to start translating :p
<Burgwork> moin is not needed for translation
<Burgwork> we should do translation via rosetta
<LaserJock> Burgwork: how do we get a template to rosetta?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, I have just asked mdke to do it
<mhz> cbx33: hmm,no good for me, I read no xml :)
<cbx33> oooh excellent
<cbx33> Burgwork, thank you
<Burgwork> np
<mhz> Burgwork: yeah, let's moin it!
<cbx33> was thining rosetta but didn't know if it was possible
* mhz would gladly help
<Burgwork> mhz, you need to edit the xslt to figure out to turn xml into mion
<cbx33> heheh
<mhz> Burgwork: hmm how about Docbook 2 Openoffice.org and from OpenOffice.org 2 Moin :D 
<cbx33> noooooooo :p
<cbx33> rosetta is the way to go
<LaserJock> I think the docteam has a tool for at least moin -> docbook
<Burgwork> LaserJock, nope, we don't
<Burgwork> mhz, ick
<Burgwork> rosetta gets us established teams
<mhz> ick ?
<cbx33> Burgwork, would it go up as a package then?
<cbx33> if so can it be assigned to edubuntu school support team
<Burgwork> cbx33, it could be shipped as part of edubuntu-doc, but it is pretty late for that
<cbx33> it's too late for that now
<LaserJock> Burgwork: what about teamstuff/article2moin ?
<cbx33> next release
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> anyway, we should stop bikeshedding and get on with the actual doc
<Burgwork> it is in docbook now
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<Burgwork> LaserJock, cbx33 we need a license for the doc
<Burgwork> gfdl and ccbysa2.5 are not ideal if we ever want to print this
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> hmm, how so?
<LaserJock> the docs on lulu are
<Burgwork> gfdl requires you attach the license itself, which adds pages
<cbx33> I'm not too hot on license
<Burgwork> given the doc is only two or maybe three pages...
<cbx33> Burgwork, wht about a link to the license?
#edubuntu 2006-05-25
<cbx33> the doc laid out I'm expecting to be about 8 A5 pages
<Burgwork> not good enough for printed
<Burgwork> 8 is a lot of pages
<cbx33> i know
<LaserJock> does ccbysa2.5 require full text, I think it might be just a link or something
<LaserJock> cbx33: I really think you need to watch the screenshots
<Burgwork> hmm, I don't know
<LaserJock> cbx33: they should be shrunk down
<Burgwork> screenshots need not be full screen
<Burgwork> they should be, at most, about 4cm square
<cbx33> Burgwork, that was the plan
<cbx33> see the mockups :p
<LaserJock> Burgwork: do you guys up there use metric?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> you imperial nuts :p
<cbx33> I could never get the hang of it :p
<cbx33> makes my maths harder
<Burgwork> LaserJock, in Canada. Officially yes. We are a wierd hybrid, in practice
<LaserJock> I thought maybe it would be half-and-half since Canada seems to like it both ways
<Burgwork> distance in metric, weight and height in imperial
<cbx33> and when I'm doing non-linear differential equations :p
<cbx33> yeh we do a half and half thing too :p
<cbx33> but I normally measure length etc in mm/cm
<Burgwork> you buy groceries by the pound but bulk food by the 100g and gass by the litre
<LaserJock> I'm used to using metric (or really SI) because I'm a scientist
<cbx33> LaserJock, swat I thought
<cbx33> anyway we digress
<LaserJock> but I don't use it a lot for daily use, I have no idea what I weigh in kg, etc.
* cbx33 weighs about 70
<LaserJock> that sounds better than lbs.
* cbx33 wieghs about 10.5 stone
<cbx33> no idea what that is in lbs
<LaserJock> Burgwork: did you see cbx33's patch4
<cbx33> LaserJock, was it ok?
<Burgwork> yep, looks godo
<LaserJock> I see a typo
<cbx33> ooop
<Burgwork> apply the patch and then fix the typos
<Burgwork> I saw a grammar error too
<cbx33> oh dear....
* cbx33 gives up patching for the night
<Burgwork> it was mine, actually
<Burgwork> I missed a comma
<cbx33> oh.... phew
<LaserJock> commited
<cbx33> I only checked the manage section
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> think i can get commit access soon :p
<LaserJock> scare -> scarce and added a comma
<Burgwork> cbx33, have you applied for access?
<cbx33> jscotango posted about it a while ago
<mhz> LaserJock: so, any special idea for articles?
<cbx33> and people asked for me to submit more patches :p
<LaserJock> mhz: what articles?
<mhz> LaserJock: iirc, you said something like "mhz, why dont you write an article?"
<LaserJock> mhz: hmm, I don't remember
<LaserJock> but that's not anything new
<mhz> hehehe, indeed
<cbx33> are my patches ok?
<mhz> LaserJock: no worries, it was lucasvo 
<mhz> sorry
<cbx33> hheh
<cbx33> lucasvo, wants articles for the ubuntu journal I would think
<mhz> lucasvo: may 19 11:41:18 <lucasvo>       mhz: are you willing to write an article?
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you svn up?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> i don;t have access
<LaserJock> cbx33: no, update your repo
<cbx33> oh ok
<cbx33> done
* cbx33 is making changes
<cbx33> I have another patch
<cbx33> LaserJock, emailed to you
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> sorry LaserJock do you want me to keep them back and make a bigger one?
<LaserJock> it's not to bad yet :-)
<cbx33> you sure
<cbx33> well, if you or Burgwork have a suggestion and example about how the applications section will look like
<Burgwork> ok, headed home
<cbx33> I can check it out tomorrow
<cbx33> nn Burgwork 
<Burgwork> be back online in about half an hour
<cbx33> nn LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hmm, but you didn't have an updated svn :-)
<cbx33> I'm off to sleep
<cbx33> LaserJock, what do you mean....
<cbx33> yes id did
<cbx33> didn't I?
<cbx33> i updated
<cbx33> oh hang on
<LaserJock> cbx33: it might have not gone all the way through yet, your patch reverts some changes :-)
<cbx33> no wait
<cbx33> wait
<cbx33> I submit another
<cbx33> too sec
<LaserJock> ok, fine
<cbx33> that should be it
<cbx33> nn LaserJock 
<LaserJock> cbx33: cya
<cbx33> sorry for the mistake
<LaserJock> np
<Burgundavia_> LaserJock, where are we at with cbx33 and his patches?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I applied his last one
<Burgundavia_> ok
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, do you like the idea of merging the tools section with the educational apps section?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah, but I'd like to see what we want to do with the tools in general
<Burgundavia> let me merge and commit and we can look then
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<Burgundavia> alright 3053
<Burgundavia> remembering of course that the main audience will not read this through yelp
<LaserJock> ack, I don't think I did commit his last patch :/
<LaserJock> let me do that first
<Burgundavia> too late
<LaserJock> well, I'll do it now and then we can have a look see
<LaserJock> ok, so svn up and lets look at this thing
<LaserJock> btw, I think we need to do some spell checking
<LaserJock> for some reason it is almost impossible for me to get spell checkers in OS X
<Burgundavia> we do
<Burgundavia> ugh, this whole applications section
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah, so did you want to have like a para for each app area?
<Burgundavia> right now I am doing the basics
<Amaranth> any updates on SoC stuff?
<Amaranth> i'm about ready to give up on the willow author and just write my own
<Amaranth> i'd have to fork willow and change it anyway
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, I have heard nothing
<Burgundavia> honestly, there isn't that much code their
<Burgundavia> s/their/there
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> it's very compact magic
<Burgundavia> however, the concept is really good
<Burgundavia> one key piece that might be difficult is some kind of a learning mode
<Burgundavia> basically display the page within a frame and have the teacher click on a button to categorize it
<Burgundavia> hmm, then again, that probably isn't too hard
<Amaranth> a firefox extension would be useful
<Burgundavia> I would make it server side
<Burgundavia> remember that most education environments are mixed
<Amaranth> eh?
<Amaranth> oh, do some magic with an iframe
<Burgundavia> basically it would be a proxy
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, svn up
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: k
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ack, I've got to get home, I'll be on later
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, ok
<cbx33> mornin all
<Burgundavia> salut cbx33
<Burgundavia> I have been busy while you slept
<cbx33> i bet you have
<cbx33> i'm still in bed at the mo on pocket pc
<cbx33> can hardly breathe......feel like.....$#@
<cbx33> howz the doc
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is currently on #edubuntu (5h 1m 4s) #ubuntu (5h 1m 4s)
<Burgundavia> cbx33, you are unlikely to get anything out of ogra until monday
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> he's working on RC
<cbx33> isn't he
<Burgundavia> more likely he is not working and relaxing for a stressful two weeks of work up to release
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> good for him
<cbx33> right battery is dying here
<cbx33> got bout 5 more mins.....
<cbx33> then i'll switch to pc......
<cbx33> bbiab
<Burgundavia> cbx33, fire any patches you have at the ubuntu-doc list
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> have you uploaded your changes ?
<Burgundavia> yep, everything I have done is in the repo
<cbx33> nioce
* cbx33 goes to checkout
<cbx33> thank you for this Burgundavia 
<cbx33> you've been a fantastic help
<cbx33> Corey did you get that mail about the change of licensing on the wiki?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> np
<Burgundavia> it has been fun
<cbx33> I'll bet
<cbx33> WOW
<cbx33> you have been busy
<cbx33> so Burgundavia 
<cbx33> did you want me to try along the same lines with the science apps?
<Burgundavia> cbx33, sure
<cbx33> Burgundavia, you there :p
<cbx33> Any good educational platform is built on the applications it is built on and Edubuntu is no exception. 
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that was tired typing
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> sorry Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> correct any errors like that
<cbx33> will do,
<cbx33> We'll give it till the end of the weekend for this
<cbx33> hopefully get it to the mailing list for translation late sunday?
<cbx33> then i can off load it to do RC testing for ogra next week
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> that should give everyone one more look
<cbx33> Burgundavia, when placing screenshots into docbook
<cbx33> should I resize them down to fit
<Burgundavia> yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: please add the #edubuntu-de channel into the section: I don't know much English, can I also get help in my language?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> lucasvo, we could list them all but it would take up too much space
<cbx33> Burgundavia, have you looked at that last section at all yet?
<Burgundavia> which section? the local one?
<Burgundavia> better to say, "There is an Edubuntu or Ubuntu community in nearly everything language and then link to a page"
<cbx33> how can i get involved etc
<Burgundavia> night
<lucasvo> cbx33: then don't mention any of them
<lucasvo> people think this list is complete 
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<pygi> whats up cbx33 ?
<cbx33> not much
<cbx33> just gonna finish some 3d modelling
<cbx33> then work on ESA :D
<pygi> cbx33, nice :)
<cbx33> http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/ImagesGallery/2002/Sep02/image02.asp?Cate=GImages
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> tis an old one, but that's the sorta thing I used to do in my spare time :p
* pygi looks
<pygi> cbx33, nice :)
<pygi> Blender
<pygi> ?
<cbx33> no truespace
<pygi> cbx33, ah, is it any good?
<cbx33> pygi, it does the job
<cbx33> but not free
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33, I am askin' because I know several people who don't want to go to Linux because they cant run 3DS max
<juliux> ogra, i will try to get a stand on the linuxworldexpo in colonge for edubuntu
<lucasvo> juliux: Ubuntu Radios is cool!
<juliux> lucasvo, you mean the german one?
<lucasvo> juliux: yes
<lucasvo> juliux: is there an english one/
<juliux> lucasvo, i dont no if there is an english one
<cbx33> juliux, you listen to lugradio?
<cbx33> or linux reality?
<cbx33> brb
<juliux> lucasvo, but i think that the german one has to much music
<juliux> cbx33, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/radio/
<juliux> cbx33, but it is only german
<lucasvo> juliux: I never listened to it
<juliux> lucasvo, hehe
<lucasvo> juliux: what do you think, would it be a good idea to make Ubuntu Journal multi lingual?
<lucasvo> for e.g. have a german section?
<juliux> lucasvo, i think so
<juliux> lucasvo, but if there is a print version i think it is a lot of work to have it multi lingual
<lucasvo> juliux: no, just print them all into one magazine
<juliux> lucasvo, puh
<lucasvo> if you double the pages you pay about 10% more
<lucasvo> but you can sell to more people
<lucasvo> which gives you bulk discount
<lucasvo> cbx33: I'll try to do something with scribus once again
<juliux> lucasvo, i have somebody who can do the layout
<lucasvo> juliux: who?
<lucasvo> juliux: www.elevendesign.ch 
<lucasvo> he is quite good
<juliux> lucasvo, www.linwiki.de is his project, he has layoute our draft for a magazin
<juliux> lucasvo, ok if you have one 
<lucasvo> juliux: I think we should work together
<juliux> lucasvo, i have no time for that
<lucasvo> juliux: are you the only one involved with printing/
<juliux> lucasvo, i?
<lucasvo> I mean a print version
<lucasvo> juliux: can I see your draft?
<juliux> lucasvo, it is not my draft
<lucasvo> I mean the draft you have, done by the linwiki guy
<juliux> lucasvo, hm the draft isnt online i look if i can find it
<lucasvo> thanks
<ajayc> !ubotu
<ubotu> Yep, that's me! I'm a bot alright. Read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage to find out how to use me. Do NOT play with me in any channel except #debian-bots.
<ajayc> #debian-bots
<ajayc> pygi, hi
<pygi> ajayc, how may I help you?
<ajayc> pygi, how can i get a bot from #debian-bots?
<pygi> you can't :)
<ajayc> damn
<ajayc> i cant get my own
<pygi> you can install blootbot tho
<ajayc> cos i dunno where to host it
<pygi> ah
<ajayc> any idea what i can do?
<pygi> buy a server? :)
<cbx33> afternooooon all
<lucasvo> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi lucasvo
<cbx33> Laser_away: ping
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> did you manage to find that theme tarball?
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> jerome said my latest patch i submitted to the ML didn't work
<cbx33> it did here
<cbx33> can you check it out?
<ajayc> hi guys
<LaserJock> cbx33: ok
<LaserJock> cbx33: patched fine for me, jerome might not have svn up'd before he applied it or something
<cbx33> possibly
<cbx33> did you apply it LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: yep, just now
<LaserJock> ok, I have perhaps a suggestion for the Applications section
<LaserJock> I still like the idea of seperating the desktop apps (which are no different than an Ubuntu desktop I don't think) and the educational apps
<LaserJock> so I was thinking that under Applications we could have a sectional called "Edubuntu desktop" and a section called "Educational"
<LaserJock> and we could make Edubuntu Desktop more narrative and less list like
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<cbx33> Laser_away, ok sounds good, what would happen about screen hosts?
<cbx33> hi jane_ 
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<cbx33> highvoltage, is the idea to have two wikis now?
<cbx33> what would help.edubuntu be edited by?
<Laser_away> cbx33: read wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs
<Laser_away> cbx33: my basic understanding is that anything we want moved to help.ubuntu.com should have CategoryDocumentation at the bottom
<Laser_away> cbx33: I think ogra was thinking of that list of pages you were doing
<lucasvo> Laser_away: do you think that's reosanable?
<lucasvo> because then people would look for articles which are on help-wiki in the normal wiki, wont find them and create new ones
<lucasvo> I would rather just mark the wiki articles with some marker and then have an editor team who copies them and looks that there is no rubbish in them.
<lucasvo> cbx33: what do you think?
<lucasvo> ah- 
<Laser_away> lucasvo: all user documentation wiki pages are moving to help.ubuntu.com
<Laser_away> wiki.ubuntu.com will only have developer documenation, specs, etc.
<lucasvo> yeah, I just finished reading the spec
<lucasvo> I think best would be, if one would do it like this:
<lucasvo> help.ubuntu.com/wiki the actual wiki
<lucasvo> help.ubuntu.com the documentation 
<Laser_away> yes, that is the way it is
<lucasvo> but I think help.ubuntu.com/ should NOT be a wiki
<Laser_away> it isn't
<lucasvo> oh, so I misunderstood this
<Laser_away> help.ubuntu.com holds the docs that are shipped, help.ubuntu.com/wiki holds the user documentation wiki
<Amaranth> projects get their slots for SoC this afternoon
<lucasvo> the apple store is awesome
<cbx33> Laser_away, who will have editing rights to help.ubuntu.com ?
<cbx33> for updating docs etc?
<cbx33> and when is this move taking place?
<lucasvo> cbx33: afaik the docteam
<cbx33> ping Laser_away 
#edubuntu 2006-05-26
<mhz> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut mhz 
<mhz> Burgundavia: salut
* mhz is very comfortable with Edubuntu Dapper GUI settings
<mhz> just this chalkboard wallpaper is a little 'hmmm, how should i put it...hmmm, errr, hmm"
<mhz> on the other hand, Tango and red Clearlooks is pretty cool
<HedgeMage> hi mhz, Burgundavia 
<mhz> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<Burgundavia> not much
<mhz> .oO(hmm, default Edubuntu desktop is still to heavy for my machines...:(  )
* mhz will be forced to use an alternative like XFCE or Wmaker or Fluxbox again
<Burgundavia> highvoltage is planning on using xubuntu in his tuxlab projects
<mhz_restartingX> Burgundavia: tuxlab?
<mhz_restartingX> oh, yeah
<mhz_restartingX> sorry
<mhz_restartingX> I thought you were part of tuxlab :)
* mhz_restartingX BRB
<mhz> yeah, xfce seems to be user firendly enough as a replacement for GNOME
<mhz> but still not very light enough
<mhz> .oO(wow! fluxbox is definately really fast
<Amaranth> It's easy to be fast when you don't do anything.
<mhz> Amaranth: what you mean?
<Amaranth> mhz: Fluxbox is fast but doesn't do as much
<Amaranth> of course i'm comparing a window manager to a full desktop environment
<mhz> oh, sure. That's the idea. Use resources only when needed
* mhz loves 4-in-a-row
* mhz is now using xubuntu for Edubuntu desktop
<mhz> I have set xubuntu to run as similar as possible to GNOME edubuntu defaults
<mhz> Could we set an option for Edubuntu school admins so that if they need lighter desktop they can choose something like edubuntu-xfce-environment  ?
<mhz> and this will donwload xubuntu for them but with edubuntu defaults
* mhz "sees dead people"
<crimsun> everyone's still on holiday
<mhz> oh, yeah
<ncaller> I am a kubuntu/dapper user who is very interested in deploying edubuntu in an LTSP environment for a small private school.  Is this currently possible, I will also say that I am in the process now of reading your faqs / wiki so it may be covered in there in which case I will find it as I read it
<mhz> ncaller, hi there
<HedgeMage> hi ncaller 
<mhz> hehehe, indeed
<ncaller> howdy what's happening
<mhz> ncaller: yup, absolutely possible, I'd say.
<ncaller> is anyone doing it that you know of?
<HedgeMage> LTSP is a very common setup for edubuntu, so common that it's right in our installer :)
<ncaller> aha
<ncaller> excellent
<mhz> ncaller: Edubuntu is aimed to work out-of-the-box
<HedgeMage> (I haven't played with it much here, but others have)
<ncaller> well I will be downloading and testing it shortly
<ncaller> one question I think will be interesting to answer is if a lot of preowned educational software packages (commercial) will run under wine/dosemu/winex whatever
<mhz> That is, it will provide you with LTSP + Ubuntu + tons of Edu apps + wallpapers for Edubuntu purposes (diff ages end-users) + 
<ncaller> awesome
<mhz> community support
<mhz> Regarding, non-GPL'ed apps... well, no idea
<ncaller> I was working with someone last summer on his K12/LTSP setup using CentOS, but I have to say that a debian/ubuntu based distro for school'ing is very nice especially from a management point of view
<mhz> But if Kubuntu lets you run on Wine/whatever
<mhz> then, sure
<mhz> I am not sure about the performance of Wine or similar apps. under LTSP environment
<ncaller> what is the edubuntu status of working with SMBLDAP for integrating with Windows Domains?
<ncaller> yes neither am I
<mhz> However, as the load of work is for the server to take, if your server is powerful enough, then sure.
<HedgeMage> sorry to run, but TT needs me :)
<HedgeMage> bbl
<mhz> HedgeMage: bye
* HedgeMage waves
<HedgeMage> hope to see you in here often, ncaller 
<HedgeMage> :)
<ncaller> fortunately the school I'll be implementing this for currently has no computer resources so there is not really an issue to integrate with old windows software I was just curious
<ncaller> yes will do
<ncaller> later
<mhz> ncaller: I once participated in the setting of Ubuntu (hoary!) with LDAP. I have not done it with SAMBA but I guess it will work
<mhz> ncaller: LTSP is a great resource esp. for schools with old hardware
<ncaller> when we did it on CentOS last year it was a nightmare, CentOS is a redhat-logo-name-removed redhat enterprise spinoff which you probably knew
<ncaller> yes
<mhz> They still get new versions of edu apps (linux ones)
<ncaller> right
<ncaller> the setup's I have seen have all used old PC's usually with pizzabox style cases for the terminals with their cd's and harddrive's removed, basically bought as cheap as possible.  But I have seen a limited amount of the LTSP terminals deployed
<mhz> so far, I have tested Edubuntu (since Breezy) in about 3 diff environments (old hardware) and it has always worked just perfectly
<ncaller> they are a bit pricy compared to what you can get an old PC for at the moment though
<ncaller> though they look nice
<mhz> yup, indeed
<ncaller> would be great if you could get an LTSP term for even $100
<mhz> In my last edubuntu install (1 server + 6 worksations) we set BIOS to boot via PXE 1st. And if teacher needs better performance (let's say TuxMath or other games), then all stations have edubuntu-worksations install
<mhz> well, AFAIK, there's a case of success in Mexico
<mhz> let me get you the URL
<ncaller> thanks
<mhz> they did get it very cheap
* mhz means "let me get you.." = "will try to..."
<mhz> :)
<ncaller> the place I worked at last summer had a lab of I think 60-70 term's running K12LTSP/CentOS, plus every other computer on the network in the school (about 300) dual booted 98 or XP / and linux
<ncaller> they had 4 existing Term servers, plus we built one more
<mhz> ncaller: http://manueldublan.org/computerlab/
<mhz> ncaller: all happy users?
<ncaller> yes
<mhz> ncaller: all happy admins?
<ncaller> only one tech admin, and yes
<mhz> .oO(that must have been a nice experience to see)
<ncaller> the school administration loves the fact that the cost is very cheap
<ncaller> brb
<mhz> yeah, schools should focus not on investing so much on computers but more on level of education and diff alternatives for students
<mhz> Amaranth: xubuntu for edubuntu, is so far less expensive on same hardware and same apps. running at same time
<mhz> (we'll see in next hours)
<ulinskie> good morning
<ajayc> Amaranth, hi
<Amaranth> err, hi
<ajayc> Amaranth, u indian?
<Amaranth> nope
<ajayc> ahh ok
<Amaranth> although i'm told my nick means "forever ranting" in hindi
<Amaranth> i think i've been lied to
<ncaller> that link story was good, I'll keep it in my ammo bin
<ulinskie> hi adhoc, Amaranth
<mhz> guys, anyone has had trouble editing Grub menu.lst ?
<ajayc> no
<ajayc> :P
<mhz> I edit it and tell it to read /dev/hda2, save it, update-grub, reopen it and still says /dev/hdc2 instead :(
<ajayc> why update-grub?
<ajayc> just edit and save
<ajayc> rest it will do itself
<ajayc> just edit and save
<mhz> ooh
* mhz thought grub works just like yaboot and others
<ajayc> nope mhz
<mhz> ajayc: okis, thx a lot for that important clarification
<mhz> for a moment I thought I was crazy
<ajayc> lol
<ajayc> np
<mhz> :D
<ajayc> btw u can come and hangout at #worlddomination
<mhz> ajayc: heheh, and what is that for?
* mhz feels it has to do something with overtaking the power 
<mhz> via Linux
<mhz> or something regarding "Kill Bill" (gates) distro
<ajayc> nope
<ajayc> well it was my channek for mydsitro
<mhz> your distro?
<ajayc> which i dropped cos i wasalone and it was gettin difficult
<mhz> yeah, that happens
<ajayc> btw it was gentoo based
<mhz> but dont worry "we are not alone"
<ajayc> but i got many friends there
* mhz loves Gentoo
<ajayc> nice place
<ajayc> if u ever want buddies come to #worlddomination ;)
<mhz> it's incredible how Gentoo can make people either just hate it or love it, no in-between-feelings
<mhz> thx
<ajayc> yup true
<ajayc> u coming now?
<ajayc> or later?
<mhz> okis
<Laser_away> Gentoo is great, I just think Ubuntu is greater :-)
<ajayc> depends
<ajayc> :P
<mhz> Laser_away: hehehehe
<mhz> you are away
<mhz> oh, not fair!
<ajayc> lol
<mhz> LaserJock: I was with mdke in #moin yesterday. We were told Ubuntu = the distro you get when you can't install Debian
<mhz> :D
<LaserJock> doh
<mhz> of course, it was a joke from the person who said it
<LaserJock> Ubuntu = the distro when you want Debian to work and look nice ;-)
<mhz> LOL
<ajayc> gentoo= the distro that WORKS :D
<mhz> rofl!!!
<ajayc> puppy: NO BLOAT JUST LINUX
<LaserJock> ajayc: if it compiles ;-)
<ajayc> if it gotta work it gotta compile :P
* mhz still laughin
<LaserJock> ajayc: it was a whole lot more bloated then Ubuntu for me
<ajayc> gentoo>
<LaserJock> but it really depends
<ajayc> yup it does ubuntu is not beautiful though BROWN eww
<LaserJock> so far I really haven't had a time where Gentoo worked better for me than Ubuntu, but it is my second choice for sure
<ajayc> sometimes look like ahem ... shit
<ajayc> :P
<ajayc> :D
<LaserJock> ajayc: the brown is cool, I like it
<ajayc> i like it now
<LaserJock> but I change it if I want to
<ajayc> its shiny now
* mhz still uses Gentoo LiveCd#1 as his best option for rescue CD or live text mode
<LaserJock> yeah, Dapper colors look better to me than Breezy
<mhz> indeed
<ajayc> btw come to other channel LaserJock ask mhz i gotta leave cya
<LaserJock> other channel?
<mhz> LaserJock: any idea if ESA is ready to be used?
<LaserJock> mhz: I think cbx33 is putting in screenshots tomorrow and finalizing
<mhz> oh, so text is good to use then?
<mhz> to be used
* mhz still thinking in spanish
<ajayc> #worlddomination
<LaserJock> the Applications section is still a little in flux
<ajayc> :D
<ch1p> hello
<ch1p> hey
<ch1p> anyone here
<highvoltage> cbx33: ping
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm /pm'ing you the link to that theme
<cbx33> Excellent
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<cbx33> I'll try to ghet that sorted out later on today
<cbx33> got loads to do today
<cbx33> I think I found a bug in Keduca
<pygi> hey all
<cbx33> bb in about 2 hours
<rocks> how do you conncet a usb web cam
<highvoltage> via a usb port, i would presume :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: so, next month we meet :)
<jsgotangco> wiigiiii
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> wohoooo
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> yeah should be fun
<jsgotangco> hehe
* highvoltage thought you just got excited about a new nintendo machine
<jsgotangco> wii!!!
<jsgotangco> hehe
<highvoltage> hehe
<jsgotangco> although i'll be flying for 15 hours to get to paris
<highvoltage> i think it'll be about 10 hours for me
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> africa is pretty big anyway
<highvoltage> and probably 2 hours for ogra :)
<highvoltage> yeah, and i live on the tip right at the bottom
<jsgotangco> but you wont be adjusting to the timezone he
<highvoltage> paris is an hour behind my timezone, but yeah, no adjusting should be necassary
<jsgotangco> heh im 6 hours ahead
<highvoltage> i bought a book/cd on how to speak french, listening to it while i drive. i'm not sure how much engrish they speak there
<jsgotangco> maybe i should do that too
<jsgotangco> actually i still need to get a shengen visa
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<jsgotangco> hey
<cbx33> just about to look at that css
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 
<phos> what browser does edubuntu ship with?
<crimsun> as in Web browser? -desktop depends on firefox
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you take the exam?
<jsgotangco> phos: firefox
<phos> has it been suggested to create a kiosk version
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<jsgotangco> phos: not yet
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: how was it?
<highvoltage> it was okay
<highvoltage> i had some gripes with it, but they had a session afterwards where we could give feedback
<jsgotangco> what was it like? desktop focused?
<highvoltage> LPI is great like that, they continually improve their exams
<phos> i think it would be nice to see something like that
<jsgotangco> phos: kiosk mode on what? just firefox?
<jsgotangco> you can do that with pessulus
<phos> yeah?
<cbx33> highvoltage, you took LPIC ?
<phos> i must take a look at that
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: problem is, you have to sign a form at the exam where you promise not to discuss the contents of the test :/
<jsgotangco> cbx33: no he took the Ubuntu exam
<jsgotangco> mehhhh
<cbx33> oooooh
* cbx33 wants to do that
<jsgotangco> cbx33: jo'burg was the first to give an exam during linuxworld
<highvoltage> this is the test objectives though: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/certification/pro
<jsgotangco> phos: there's also sabayon but it is focused on profiles, pessulus is more on locking down gnome itself
<cbx33> oooh
<phos> yeah, i imagined something along the lines of a restricted profile
* jsgotangco is not really an exam person
<jsgotangco> phos: yeah you should look into pessulus then
* highvoltage neither
<phos> i will do
<cbx33> hehe
<jsgotangco> phos: hopefully, the next relesae for edubuntu will be shiny with such features
<cbx33> well i do better in coursework
<jsgotangco> grr opera still doesn't play nice on gdebi
<highvoltage> cbx33: could you figure anything out on that theme? i didn't expect it to be easy. what are you planning on doing?
<highvoltage> cbx33: updating it to 4.7.0, a re-write, or apply it to another theme?
<cbx33> highvoltage, just looking at it now
<cbx33> highvoltage, you know this doc move on the wiki
<cbx33> wyhat's that gonna mean for people who aren't memebrs of the doc team, but need to update their documents?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm not sure, i'm not 100% updated on the doc 'move'
<highvoltage> cbx33: who's moving what at the moment?
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<cbx33> it's gonna play havoc with my UbuntuLTSP idea though
* cbx33 is confused
<cbx33> in that case I'd need to become a member of the doc team, 
<cbx33> are we having a seperate edubuntu doc team?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i don't think you need to worry about that too much though
<highvoltage> cbx33: edubuntu-doc has been kind of seperate
<cbx33> highvoltage, could you pm me that link again?
<highvoltage> cbx33: but i think it would be ideal to have both working together
<highvoltage> sure
<cbx33> yeh, but ogra was keen on me making the LTSP stuff ubutu generic, which I have been trying to do
<cbx33> sorry, I'm on another computer now :p
<cbx33> have my drupal system all setup
<highvoltage> sent
<highvoltage> i think you should continue doing that
<highvoltage> if and when any move takes place, it would be better if everything is organised to start off with.
<cbx33> yes
<highvoltage> i think what corey suggested (it was late when i read the conversation), is that we have a page similar to http://doc.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> well I'm trying :p
<jsgotangco> in drupal?
<jsgotangco> its not really complicated in drupal
<jsgotangco> the trick is how to make it look not like drupal heh
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: exactly ;)
<jsgotangco> hmmm java
<cbx33> jsgotangco, no, I'm trying to pul all the LTSP stuff together
<jsgotangco> cbx33: good luck if you're using moin
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I am
* jsgotangco downloads java
<cbx33> highvoltage, do you know where the current theme setting is set?
<cbx33> so i can change it when it breaks :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: sff breaks drupal so badly, that you can't even change back
<highvoltage> cbx33: (not from within drupal anyway)
<cbx33> yeh
<highvoltage> cbx33: so ln -s is your friend :)
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> mv edubuntu to something like edubuntu-bak
<highvoltage> then ln -s one of the other themes to edubuntu
<cbx33> ok I was looking through the mysql database
<cbx33> highvoltage, how does it break on the server?
<cbx33> just goes blank doesn't it?
<cbx33> highvoltage, you're not at work now are you?
<jsgotangco> its sunday
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> he popped in this morning
<cbx33> didn't know if he'd gone home yet
<cbx33> jsgotangco, if i wanted to include images in a docbook
<cbx33> can i have them sit next to one another like in tables?
<jsgotangco> no
<cbx33> thought not
<cbx33> hmm.....
<jsgotangco> docbook is not meant to format
<cbx33> no i know
<jsgotangco> it just shows the data
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, just goes blank
<cbx33> highvoltage, must be something up with your specific setup
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, it's too cold outside, so i'm at home :)
<cbx33> as it works here
<cbx33> I was goign to sk for a zip of the drupal folder
<highvoltage> cbx33: does the edubuntu theme work with your version of drupal?
<cbx33> and the database :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: what version of drupal are you using?
<cbx33> yes ... to an extent
<cbx33> there are some css issues to resolve but it definitely doesnt break
<highvoltage> interesting. since they warn you that what happens to me would definitely happen on drupal 4.7.0+
<cbx33> highvoltage, tbh i think it's a php warning
<highvoltage> what version of drupal are you using, cbx33?
<cbx33> 4.7
<cbx33> 4.7.0
<cbx33> to be exact
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: do you have any idea if what we will be having in shipit is the text install or workstaion live?
<cbx33> text install...iirc
<jsgotangco> cool its only right to give 5 max then
<jsgotangco> hmm i hope we can have some in paris
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> i think it's the text install too, but you'll have to wait for a response from ogra to know for sure
<cbx33> am i right in thinking tuxtype has been removed from edbutu?
<cbx33> highvoltage, how do you want me to proceed with the css edubutnu issue ?
<cbx33> i think it may be due to the directory structure 
<cbx33> for example there is an admin folder on your system, but there is not in 4.7
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i dont have it either now
* cbx33 removes tuxtype from ESA
<cbx33> one less screenshot to do
<jsgotangco> cbx33: well you have to know why its not there anymore
<cbx33> true, i remember someone saying it had been removed before, vaguely, might have been ogra
<cbx33> but i have no way of checking now, and the ESA deadline is supposed to be today
<jsgotangco> its only 1 line :)
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> think i shoujld remove it or wait?
<jsgotangco> comment it heh
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> how do you comment in docbook :p
<jsgotangco> just like how you comment html
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> nice the java 5 debs work well
<cbx33> jsgotangco, how do you suggest handling the screenshots in the ESA?
<jsgotangco> have you seen the TakingScreenshots wiki?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> and i have followed that to get my screnshots
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<jsgotangco> that shold  be enough but if you find it big, just resize them
<jsgotangco> because you're discussing a whole application
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I have 5.3Mb worth of png
<jsgotangco> if you were discussing a feature of an application, you would focus on the feature instaed of showng the whole image
<cbx33> i'm gonna run pngcrush on them now
<cbx33> jsgotangco, true
<Yagisan> G'day all
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<highvoltage> hey Yagisan 
<cbx33> highvoltage, so, where do we go from here with the css..
<cbx33> think we need to create from scratch?
<highvoltage> cbx33: well, it works on your side, doesn't it?
<cbx33> yes
<highvoltage> cbx33: you mentioned some minor issues, what were they? can you put up some screenshots somewhere and send me the link?
<cbx33> but as i said earlier
<cbx33> sure
<highvoltage> cbx33: i can then check tomorrow morning what that looks like
<cbx33> but i think our installations are different
<highvoltage> cbx33: otherwise we start with another theme end edubuntufy that
<cbx33> i think your problem is a php problem
<cbx33> that's why it results in a blank page
<cbx33> i still think it'll break in your installation
<highvoltage> unfortunately we can't play around on this server, it's a canonical server where lots of other ubuntu pages are served from as well. so if we change php settings, we might break some of the other sites :/
<jsgotangco> yeahhh!!!!
<cbx33> yes,
<cbx33> probably the problem was it was "upgraded" as opposed to installed from scratch
<highvoltage> the server, or drupal?
<cbx33> drupal
<highvoltage> drupal was installed in pretty much the same way you did it
<cbx33> what from scratch?
<cbx33> oh
<highvoltage> the old copy was moved away, and then a new drupal installation was installed, with the old ones db
<cbx33> hmm.....then what could possibly be the problem
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> heh, #drupal and #drupal-themes say it's definately the sff theme :/
<cbx33> is it possible to copy the new one,
<cbx33> yeh?
<highvoltage> perhaps you should send them a screenshot with your working copy :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/screenie.png
<cbx33> but remember that was with a fresh database
<phos> sff?
<cbx33> but it does work
* Yagisan ponders the significance of his daughter having a nightmare at the exact same time he begins installing windows.
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Bill has been linked to the Dark Prince :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: I thought he *was* the Dark Prince
<cbx33> :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: I recall having you listed as a tester for doomsday, yet I've not heard a peep from you
<cbx33> Yagisan, true, I've been so busy with ESA and other ubu stuff, I havn't had a chance yet
<cbx33> I have a while today to do stuff so, I'll try my best to do it today
<cbx33> I think I'll nee 
<cbx33> d a little help
<Yagisan> cbx33: no worries
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you see that imafge?
<highvoltage> cbx33: probably not, lost my connection there for a while
<highvoltage> cbx33: btw, i can get it to display a page with that theme, but there's no menu to the right
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you see the menu's at the right as well?
<cbx33> highvoltage, no
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> looks like a redo of the theme may be the only solution
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> crushed png's mean only 2.5 Mb of images now
* Yagisan wonders again why he volunteered to write a build system that works on Win/Mac/*NIX
<highvoltage> ouch
<spacey> god the wiki is slow
<Yagisan> yep. It would help if I had access to a Mac too. I hope Darwin is close enough
<spacey> Yagisan: what kind of system? :)
<Yagisan> spacey: build system. 1 project, 3 different ways to build it, none in sync
<ompaul> Yagisan, cos you have (a) python (b) see (a)
<spacey> ah
<spacey> sounds like a pain in the ass
<Yagisan> it is, but it should be worth it in the end
<Yagisan> ompaul: I already started on autotools. I figure if I'm going to torture myself with WIn/Mac, I may as well add DOS for shits and giggles
* ompaul walks away in horror
<Yagisan> ompaul: it would be amusing actually. Making a DOS port would return the project to it's roots.
<ompaul> a freedos port I could understand but dos ....
* ompaul wonders if anyone got the joke
<cbx33> brb
<Yagisan> ompaul: I do have a copy of OS/2 around somewhere. That's a challenge waiting to happen. Step 1, find something it installs in (if that is still possible).
<cbx33> hey Burgundavia 
<cbx33> I've been working on some images for ESA
<cbx33> could I run them by you if you have a second
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> sure
<Yagisan> hmm, the darwin installer makes the old debian installer seem very user friendly
<cbx33> ok hang onI'll tar them
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/schooladvo.tar.gz
<Burgundavia> cbx33, looks good. I am a little concerned about the length of the OO ones
<cbx33> think it's too long?
<Burgundavia> yep
<cbx33> think we shuld skip an app?
<cbx33> looks ok in yelp
<cbx33> just outta interest
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> the screenshots only show an idea, they are not to be studied that closely
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i was hoping they'd be links to BIGGER versions
<cbx33> on the wiki at least
<Burgundavia> this doc is not ideally designed to be on the web
<cbx33> no I know
<cbx33> drupal?
<Burgundavia> we can adapt its contents to the edubuntu website, but I think it is better as a handout
<cbx33> oh sure
<cbx33> we could always make a link to the pdf
<cbx33> I chatted to mdke about the rosetta idea yesterday, hope you don;t mind
<cbx33> he said probably the best way would be to make it a product
<cbx33> I was thinking about lulu for printing it? what do you think?
<cbx33> getting a few done to see how they look
<Yagisan> argh, I can see the sun rising
* Yagisan quickly heads off to bed
<Burgundavia> it is too small to have lulu print it
<Burgundavia> if this is a product guide, you can probably get it printed locally for cheaper
<CuriousG> What's the proper way of getting Edubuntu to work with two NICs?
<Burgundavia> what do you want to do?
<CuriousG> I'd like to keep the LTSP traffic onto one NIC and the other NIC access Internet
<Burgundavia> if you bind the dhcp server to one, you are good
<CuriousG> I think by default it uses eth0 for the DHCP server
<CuriousG> Seem to have problems booting thin clients too.
<CuriousG> One time I got out of range on LCD
<CuriousG> Other times it came up but had no mouse
<Burgundavia> hmm, I am not the person to ask about that
<Burgundavia> I have actually never installed Edubuntu
<CuriousG> keyboard worked but entered in user and password and it came back to the login prompt again
<Burgundavia> A record I am quite proud of
<CuriousG> heh, funny that you're in this channel then
<CuriousG> Took a while to figure out that the Desktop version isn't what you want if you want thin clients
<cbx33> Burgundavia, lulu will print brochures
<Burgundavia> don't get me wrong, I use Ubuntu everywhere. I have just never played with edubuntu
<Burgundavia> cbx33, is it cheaper than you can locally?
<CuriousG> I like how the desktop feel is in Ubuntu than Skolelinux but Skolelinux has been much more trouble free
<Burgundavia> skolelinux is an older project
<CuriousG> Sure it is older but they have a 2.0r0 out about 2 months ago
<CuriousG> So it is fairly current
<CuriousG> I don't want to download 5 or 6 CDs just to try out K12LTSP
<Burgundavia> what I meant by older is that they have been around for longer
<CuriousG> Wondering if they have daily builds
<Burgundavia> edubuntu?
<CuriousG> I know edubuntu does I just finished downloading it
<CuriousG> skole
<cbx33> Burgundavia, so if I edit that last image
<cbx33> can you upload them to the images folder?
<Burgundavia> yep, can do
<cbx33> or find me svn access :p
<CuriousG> I think they have rsync builds
<Burgundavia> I wouldn't hold your breath until after dapper releases
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I was kidding
<Burgundavia> I think elmo is currently in mexico, holding yet another tattered network together with sheer sweat
<CuriousG> that's less than 2wks unless they plan on retooling some other things
<cbx33> hehe
<Burgundavia> no, Ubuntu should release on time, pending nuclear warfare or the end of the world
<Laser_away> I doubt even the end of the world would matter, I imagine elmo, mdz and Keybuck have escape pods with backup archives on some satellite ;-)
<Burgundavia> indeed
<cbx33> Laser_away, you there?
<Laser_away> cbx33: no :(
<Burgundavia> cbx33, anything I can help you with?
<cbx33> was just gonna ask Laser_away if the images would tie in with his idea for the applications section
<cbx33> Burgundavia, I've modified the xml to include the images
<cbx33> if I tar the whole thing up can you add it to the repo?
<Burgundavia> can you send me a patch and the images?
<cbx33> ok will do
<cbx33> i think we are missing one app
<cbx33> and have one that isn't there anymore
<cbx33> Burgundavia, that link to that tar shuld now contain a new archive with crushed png's and a diff
<Burgundavia> ok, looking now
<cbx33> cheers
<cbx33> think we'll be ready for freeze tonight?
<cbx33> :S
<Burgundavia> if by tonight you mean UTC, I don't know
<Burgundavia> if  by tonight you mean UTC-7, likely
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> well the original deadlin was 1hr 40 mins away
<Burgundavia> done
<cbx33> excellent
<Burgundavia> we are lacking css for the html and xslt to make pdfs out of it
<cbx33> Burgundavia, ok
<cbx33> I've never done the xslt
<cbx33> but I can look at it
<cbx33> remeber that because it's gogn tbe a pamphlet
<cbx33> we could always use the pamphlet as the pdf
#edubuntu 2006-05-27
<cbx33> Burgundavia, what is left to do?
<cbx33> CSS
<cbx33> is that it?
<Burgundavia> css makes the html look pretty
<cbx33> yeh
<Burgundavia> I am not a css expert
* cbx33 is
<cbx33> :p
<Burgundavia> cbx33, what is your plan for pdf?
<cbx33> Burgundavia, how can I view the html wit hthe CSS attached
<cbx33> I ran a make in the edubuntu directory
<cbx33> but it doesn't link in the css to the html is that correct?
<cbx33> Burgundavia, remember the mockups at the bottom of the original page?
<cbx33> I was going to make them up like that in scribus
<Burgundavia> ok, that basically means you are going to need to fork the doc
<cbx33> yes
<Burgundavia> which sucks
<cbx33> I can't keep them up todate
<cbx33> sorry Burgundavia but if it's going to print I guess it should look the part
<cbx33> unless, I can lay it out, but make it put certain text in certain places?
<Burgundavia> yepo
<cbx33> tbh thought, this document will be pretty static until the next release
<Burgundavia> ok, then I think we need to have a quick rethink
<cbx33> only things like spelling mistakes etc
<Burgundavia> what do we actually need
<Burgundavia> ?
<cbx33> right
<Burgundavia> we need content for the website
<Burgundavia> we also need some sort of printed thing
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> there's no reason why they can't ste from the same doc
<cbx33> ste/stem
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> there is a big issue in that print is very different from the web
<Burgundavia> trying to do both from the same is going to end in tears
<cbx33> tbh, once something is printed ie hardcopy it's a permanent fork
<cbx33> Burgundavia, why do yo usay that?
<Burgundavia> ok, then, here is my plan
<Burgundavia> drop the docbook
<Burgundavia> migrate what we have to the edubuntu.org website
<Burgundavia> we also fork and move it into scribus
<Burgundavia> the scribus stuff goes into the repo
<Burgundavia> the website stuff stays on the website
<cbx33> sounds good to me
<cbx33> I forget why we moved it to svn in docbook anyway
<Burgundavia> however, lets do this after release
<cbx33> someone suggested it and it was a good idea
<cbx33> well the printing will def take palce after release
<Burgundavia> lets release with at least something in html with css for dapper and work on the scribus thing in june
<Burgundavia> does that sound like a plan
<cbx33> Burgundavia, it wouldn't take me that long to get it into drupal?
<cbx33> I could edubuntu.org it before june
<Burgundavia> sure, after we freeze it
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to do some gardening
<Burgundavia> I will be back on tomorrow
<cbx33> ok sounds good.....so when are we gonna freeze?  - I'll make a quick proof now
<cbx33> I'm sure Laser_away will do a proof
<cbx33> If all looks good I'll freeze tomorrow
<cbx33> sound good to you?
<cbx33> once frozen I'll ship it out for people who want to translate too
<cbx33> I know there are severa
<cbx33> l
<cbx33> sound good Burgundavia ?
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<Burgundavia> cbx33, I think we are ready to freeze
<Burgundavia> cbx33, for translations, we can use rosetta
<Burgundavia> no need ot ship it
<cbx33> ok e4xcellent
<cbx33> so
<cbx33> shall i create the product in LP
<cbx33> for the ESA?
<Burgundavia> we just need to spell and grammar check it
<Burgundavia> no, it can go under the edubuntu-docs one
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> but that doesn't mean it'll be added to that package does it?
<Burgundavia> I think it should be
<Burgundavia> it might be too late
<cbx33> a) it is too late
<cbx33> b) it's too big
<Burgundavia> no worries
<cbx33> Burgundavia, this is odd
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<cbx33> sorry that was meant to be highvoltage this is odd
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> the css theme is working :S
<cbx33> on my machine
<cbx33> Burgundavia, in that case, how are we going to add it to rosetta?
<cbx33> I'm gonna proof it now
<Burgundavia> we need to generate pots from the docbook
<cbx33> pots?
<Burgundavia> do you know about gettext?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I'm new to most of this
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext
<cbx33> ok i get it
<cbx33> Burgundavia, I'm just proofing now
<cbx33> have a few changes, will submit a patch in a few minutes
<Burgundavia> cbx33, sounds good
<cbx33> Burgundavia, are we writing for a UK or US market :p
<cbx33> z's or s's
<Burgundavia> US spelling
<Burgundavia> if someone "translates" it into UK or Canadian english, they can change those things
<cbx33> i can;t find a better phrase than Unix-like in - advantages of its Unix-like and open source heritages
<Burgundavia> Unix like is fine
<cbx33> Burgundavia, do you want the diff
<cbx33> or shall I pos to the mailing list>
<cbx33> gone to mailing list
<cbx33> nn all
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<jsgotangco> hello
<jsgotangco> ogra: are you still awake?
<jsgotangco> ogra: there seems to be a typo on the gcompris archive?
<jsgotangco> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
<jsgotangco>   edubuntu-desktop: Depends: g#ompris-sound-fr but it is not installable
<jsgotangco> E: Broken packages
<jsgotangco> ogra: seems to be fixed, tnx
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: around?
<jsgotangco> hey
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, yep
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ESA doesn't validate, there needs to be <para> tags around the images
<Burgundavia> ok
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I fixed it locally
<Burgundavia> fix it in the repo
<Burgundavia> I am not working on it right now
* Burgundavia is watching Serenity
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: do you think the apps lists for multimedia, internet, etc. should be turned into paragraph form describing what functionality is there?
<Burgundavia> sure
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: committed but needs love/review
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, how goes it this evening
<Burgundavia> Laser_away, I will play with it tonight
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> had to reinstall ubuntu
<Amaranth> i fscked up my init scripts
<Burgundavia> huh
<Burgundavia> back on my breezy machine right now. Geez breezy is slow
<jsgotangco> it is
<Burgundavia> so is firefox on my box for some reason
<Burgundavia> I get a massive CPU hit for every load
<Burgundavia> even just editing wikipedia is bad
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, you think I should bold the app names?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yep
<Burgundavia> ok, cleanup patch is about to land
<Burgundavia> hmm, take a look nome
<Burgundavia> s/nome/now
<Burgundavia> ok, that was a odd typo
<LaserJock> cool, there are a few typos, but it is starting to pop a bit
<Burgundavia> you think I should bold the other app names as well? (the k-ones, etc.)
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: are you using bold or <application>? and yes I think there should be something setting app names apart
<Burgundavia> hmm, I guess I should use application
<Burgundavia> just a sec, I will fix that
<LaserJock> Graphics and Sound & Video have a couple problems
<Burgundavia> ok, what are they
<LaserJock> with Graphics, you have "diagrams" capitalized
<Burgundavia> got that
<LaserJock> and the first sentence of Sound & Video isn't right
<Burgundavia> just caught that
<LaserJock> and I think I mispelled excellent in there, or maybe not
<crimsun> what are you reviewing?
<Burgundavia> ESA
<crimsun> sorry, url?
<LaserJock> no url yet
<Burgundavia> currently in the doc team repo, but an old version can be seen at doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/SchoolAdvocacy/
<Burgundavia> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/school-advocacy.html
<crimsun> in trunk or dapper?
<Burgundavia> trunk
<Burgundavia> going to add application to rest of the app names
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, did you see cbx33 and myself chatting about the future of ESA
<Burgundavia> ?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I haven't been on IRC much this weekend
<Burgundavia> we are going to release with this version in the repos, then split the doc post dapper
<crimsun> are you guys seeking content and/or structural review?
<Burgundavia> crimsun, any feedback is good
<crimsun> <para>This is a School Advocacy pamphlet for &distro-rev;</para>    <-- "This" needs to be followed by a noun.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: split?
<crimsun> "Edubuntu is designed to allow a teacher or network administrator to be able to setup"  <-- drop the "to be able"
<Burgundavia> crimsun, can you generate a patch for us?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, one version to the website and one version morphed into scribus, then the docbook version dropped
<crimsun> I can, but I can't guarantee it'll be pushed out until tomorrow evening at earliest
<crimsun> I'll add to my TODO
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> the doc is currently is a little bit of flux
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: which website? edubuntu.org?
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> sounds good
<LaserJock> hmm, what about a bzr repo for it?
<Burgundavia> well, once it is in scribus, it can back into the svn repo
<Burgundavia> I generally like the idea of one bzr repo per doc for post dapper
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm starting to wonder how the doc team is going to handle edgy WRT having docs from so many different projects
<Burgundavia> yes
<LaserJock> I setup that test bzr repo, but I'm don't think bzr is ready for our present use case
<Burgundavia> the issue with one repo per doc is the build chain
<Burgundavia> it suddenly becomes very very complicated
<LaserJock> I would like to see they docs group seperated by project (i.e. ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu,xubuntu) and then have generic, and then teamstuff/common
<LaserJock> it seems weird to have people who are only interested in edubuntu docs, for instance, download the whole repo
<Burgundavia> currently, I think svn works very well for us
<Burgundavia> the only issue is control of the repo
<Burgundavia> I would like to see this pass to mdke
<LaserJock> yes, that is an issue
<Burgundavia> I think it would be better to find a webeditor like docudo
<crimsun> it would make sense to delegate, since there're already separate CCs for Edubuntu and Kubuntu
<Burgundavia> the thing is, the build chain is the same and it makes sense to keep them one
<Burgundavia> the doc team currently works quite well
<LaserJock> well, Mark has already asked elmo to do it but I think it is fairly low priority on elmo's list at this point
<Burgundavia> elmo is currently holding the debconf structure together with ductape and spit, so...
<LaserJock> supposedly anybody who is a member of the doc team LP team will have svn access
<LaserJock> so we can control it that way
<Burgundavia> that will be good
<LaserJock> I agree that the current setup works well for us for the most part, but I'm worried about dialup users for instance
<Burgundavia> that is an issue
<Burgundavia> but there really isn't any getting around that
<LaserJock> a web editor would help, wouldn't it?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I think a webeditor would solve most of our issues
<Burgundavia> it doesn't even need to be fancy
<LaserJock> gosh, just having a plain text editor that has some sort of login and can interface to the svn repo would be great
<Burgundavia> hmm, maybe a communal box we could ssh into would be better
<Burgundavia> because the web issue brings up the "testing it in yelp" problem
<LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com ;-)
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> it should at least run validate.sh on it
<Burgundavia> for now, I intend to ssh into my home machine and use that
<LaserJock> I ssh into ~ 5 different boxes,including doc.ubuntu.com, to edit
<LaserJock> it gets to be a pain
<Burgundavia> why do you ssh into doc?
<LaserJock> sometimes I use it to build the ubuntu-docs .deb
<Burgundavia> crimsun, wow, that defendguin guy is persistant, no?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: #ubuntu ?
<Burgundavia> no #ubuntu-laptop
<LaserJock> does Diablo-D3 still hang out there?
<Burgundavia> thankfully not
<Burgundavia> I had forgotten about him
<LaserJock> sorry for reminding you ;-)
<Burgundavia> hmm, timeoutd looks interesting
<Burgundavia> it just needs a good UI to configure it
<spacey> morning
<spacey> i just had the worst night sleep ever
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Burgundavia> 'ello highvoltage 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> salut Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut JaneW 
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW
<highvoltage> anyone know who kaging1202 is?
<mhz> highvoltage: hey mon
<mhz> not me
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, no, but if you hum a few bars, I might be able to fake it
<mhz> highvoltage: seen my last emails?
<highvoltage> lol
<highvoltage> mhz: hey mon
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, i have, i'm going to forward them to a collegue, who might be interested
<mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, not you anymore?
<highvoltage> mhz: you know that i'll be in paris
<mhz> highvoltage: then you have not seen my recent emails :D
<mhz> highvoltage: paris ends on 23rd?
<jsgotangco> he's asking about thr 5CD limitation of edubuntu x86
<mhz> jsgotangco: hey
<jsgotangco> my guess is that we have a low print run
<jsgotangco> but special requests can be made if justified
<jsgotangco> you will most likely have to ask marilize
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, sounds logical.
<highvoltage> mhz: no, sorry, still catching up on latest e-mails...
<highvoltage> mhz: aah :)
<mhz> highvoltage: see?, no need to run yet :D
<mhz> highvoltage: please give us until wednesday
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, will do. what's your local time atm?
* mhz wants the less changes as possible
<mhz> 02:44 AM
<highvoltage> ok great
<mhz> is it? 
<highvoltage> yes, that means there's lots of time to 11:00 :)
* mhz offers his throne for a nice bed and sleep
<mhz> oh, yeah, for you.
<highvoltage> mhz: sleep tight :)
<mhz> I still gotta finish lots of stuff and I gotta be leaving for sponsors office at 09:00 :D
<mhz> highvoltage: can you remind me why I got into these troubles, please ? :D
<highvoltage> mhz: because you care too much :)
<mhz> highvoltage: thx, then I got more energy to continue until I literally die on the keyboard
* mhz hates to write stuff in spanish
<mhz> (we use soooo many words to say things)
<jsgotangco> ogra: is edubuntu still oversized?
<ogra> should be fine now
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html indicates that all is ok (ooo2 are only transitional packages)
<jsgotangco> err i mean amd64
<jsgotangco> im going to check an install
* Burgundavia just might have to install Edubuntu one of these days :0
<ogra> yay
<ogra> finally :)
<Burgundavia> lol
<Burgundavia> anyway, right now I have to totter off to bed. It is late here
<cbx33> w00t hi ogra 
<cbx33> how was your rest?
<ogra> relaxing 
<ogra> but not half way preparing for the amount of work waiting for me today
<cbx33> aww man I'm sorry
<ogra> (72 new bugs, half of them has to be solved *today*)
<cbx33> we finished ESA, as insiginificant as that is
<ogra> (aside from keeping the CD in shape)
<cbx33> and I took a look at the CSS theme for edubuntu.org, but I couldn't see a problem with it,  ie, it works on my computer/drual install
<ogra> highvoltage, is working on ti since thursday afaik
<cbx33> I've been in contact with him
<cbx33> I'll be able to fully test RC tomorrow
<cbx33> I'm not at work today
<cbx33> ogra, oh yes, sorry to add another to your list, are we aware of images not lading from the educa server tests?
<ogra> educa server tests ??
<ogra> whats that ? 
<cbx33> when you go into educa, you can choose test that are already made
<cbx33> and it connects up to a server
<cbx33> two I tested were colour identification
<cbx33> and shape identification
<cbx33> both of which used images, but none were displayed
<ogra> i dont even know what educa should be ? 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll double check it on the RC
<ogra> is that in universe ? 
<cbx33> Keduca ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> please tell me the full name 
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> sorry ogra
<cbx33> it's still early for me
<ogra> heh, for me as well
<cbx33> right I have a mountain of washing up to do
<cbx33> I'll bbiab
<highvoltage> ogra: yeah, the idea was to do a new theme from scratch
<highvoltage> ogra: but cbx33 got the old theme to work with drupal, so we'll do that instead
<ogra> thats fine
<highvoltage> ogra: btw, did you see someone put their name up for edubuntu membership?
<ogra> only for the testers team
<highvoltage> i wonder if he's applying, or if it was an accident. do you know kaging1202?
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> i got an email for membership too...
<highvoltage> """We received a request from the user named 'Jay M. Mapalo 
<highvoltage> (kaging1202)' trying to join the team 'Edubuntu Members', butWe received a request from the user named 'Jay M. Mapalo 
<highvoltage> (kaging1202)' trying to join the team 'Edubuntu Members', but"
<highvoltage> oops, sorry about that
<highvoltage> ogra: it's strange, your e-mail address isn't in the To: field
<highvoltage> sorry, it is "hostmaster@grawert.net"
<JaneW> that's oliver
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com somehow produces mail loops
<ogra> so i had to use my non official one
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: that's a local here, he emailed me over the weekend saying he has doco
<ogra> yeah, we have 3 applicants there currently
<ogra> freeflying is already ubuntu member ...
<ogra> trhe other two have no wikipage at all
<jsgotangco> can we whitelist ubuntu members?
<jsgotangco> or would your rather have them present themseleves as well
<ogra> JaneW, what about skipping this weeks meeting ? (i'm already chatting too much again here while i should only be in -devel)
<ogra> jsgotangco, we should at least have some feedback why they explicitly want edubuntu membership and what they want to do to participate
<ogra> i dont see a reason why we should just give edubuntu membership for free to ubuntu members
<jsgotangco> good point
<jsgotangco>  edubuntu-artwork (0.1.0-29) dapper; urgency=low
<jsgotangco>  .
<jsgotangco>   * now also the wallpaper shows NZ (closes maolne #44766)
<ogra> yeah, the most critical edubuntu bug :P
<JaneW> ogra: could do
<cbx33> hi JaneW 
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> highvoltage, I assume you got my mail :p
<jsgotangco> hey
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
<cbx33> highvoltage, funny that I didn't have to do anything
<highvoltage> cbx33: i even respondend to it on irc ;)
<cbx33> jsgotangco, ESA has been officially frozen :p
<cbx33> ah shucks, but I wasn't there
<highvoltage> ah
<cbx33> highvoltage, are you ok with me creating a page for ESA on edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> i'll try it too, i hope it's not some php problem. hopefully i'll just install it clean again and it will just work
<jsgotangco> cbx33: the work now is to register these edubuntu docs in Yelp
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, that's fine
<cbx33> jsgotangco, how do we go about that? - explain more :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: but don't call it ESA, please
<cbx33> of course not
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> calling an doc which purpose is to be an advocacy doc is very dodgy :)
<jsgotangco> file:///usr/share/scrollkeeper/doc/writing_scrollkeeper_omf_files/C/writing_scrollkeeper_omf_files.xml
<cbx33> Corey and I had a chat about where to take it, we decided probably to fork it here put the scribus versions in the svn repo
<cbx33> and make the drupal pages
<cbx33> I can mock up one of those now possibly, the omf i mean
<jsgotangco> just follow the samples and use it in your install
<cbx33> jsgotangco, whoo, back up, install?
* cbx33 is still new to all this doccing stuff
<jsgotangco> naw you can create a new scrollkeeper db
<cbx33> now I'm really confused :p
<jsgotangco> just read the scrollkeeper manual its all there
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> the xml needs to be registered in the help system
<jsgotangco> once ogra uploads edubuntu-docs it should be magic
<ogra> edubuntu-docs is in the archive sine more than a month
<ogra> *since
<ogra> or even longer
<jsgotangco> are you going to make an update?
* jsgotangco haven't even seen the about edubuntu doc in yelp
<ogra> its not seeded to main
<ogra> until now the CD space didnt allow inclusion
<jsgotangco> wahhh  you're right
<jsgotangco> its in universe :D
<ogra> the default homepage has a (commented) link to the gettingstarted guide, so if it gets included i can just enable the link ... since we dont have gettingstarted in yelp format
<jsgotangco> i dont see the xml i did in /usr/share/edubuntu-docs/
<cbx33> hi dave-YL 
<dave-YL> hi
<cbx33> off out in a while
<cbx33> hows it all going there
<dave-YL> fine
<ogra> jsgotangco, you did an xml of gettingstarted ? 
<cbx33> good good
<ogra> jsgotangco, where do i find that ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra: no just "about edubuntu"
<cbx33> ogra, did you say edubuntu-docs isn't going into the CD?
<ogra> ah
<jsgotangco> its 3 yelp pages
<ogra> cbx33, depending on space
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, i got it here
<cbx33> if it doesn't go on CD, can ESA go into it, or is it too late?
<jsgotangco> i got the annoucement in my draft, will be putting it in a wiki later
<ogra> cbx33, thats a bit late, since the possibility that we include it still exists
<cbx33> ok that's fine, just asking
<ogra> i'm really fighting with bytes here 
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> that's why I'm not fighting for inclusion
<ogra> (not even kilobytes anymore)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: we got to save some more space with some pngs in u-m being crushed :D
<ogra> u-m ? 
<cbx33> all my pngs have been crushed
<ogra> not u-d ?
<jsgotangco> update-manager
<ogra> ah
<ogra> hwdb might also loose 2m
<cbx33> if I get any time today, is ther eanything I can do for anyone?
<ogra> if thats really the case and all these (80) uploads of other packages didnt increase the size, all is fine
<cbx33> would gettingstarted in xml format be useful?
<ogra> but there are many if's 
<ogra> cbx33, for consistency, yes
<cbx33> I'll see what I can do
<cbx33> where is it at the moment?
<ogra> apt-get soource edubuntu-docs
<cbx33> I'm not promising I'll have time today, but I should have a few minutes spare tomorrow
<ogra> *source
<cbx33> ok thanks ogra 
<ogra> i doubt i can upload anything tomorrow 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> it's is 4 years today since my wife and I got together
<cbx33> so I've taken the day off work :p
<cbx33> we're goign out to a nice meal
<ogra> hey, have a nice anniversary then :)
<cbx33> but i think she still has some freelance web work to do, which means I get edubuntu playtime
<jsgotangco> edubuntu is bad for your married life
<cbx33> so is ubuntu
<cbx33> but I guess my wife must indulge me since she created the young theme wallpaper :p
<jsgotangco> linux is the root of all evil then
<cbx33> !seen Bluekuja 
<ubotu> bluekuja is currently on #edubuntu (21h 29m 17s)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i see lots of typos heh
<jsgotangco> im not sure if its a typo either or its en_UK
<jsgotangco> spelling
<jsgotangco> also the GFDL should be included in full
<jsgotangco> but the screenshots are nice :)
<highvoltage> ogra: have a minute for a support question? i can ask later too.
<cbx33> MysteriousGEGL, which doc is that in?
<MysteriousGEGL> ill just read it again later when i arrive home
<cbx33> MysteriousGEGL, do you mean the ESA, of getting started?
<MysteriousGEGL> ESA
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> coery said he'd proofed it lastnight
<cbx33> are you talking about the svn vesoion?
<cbx33> brb
<MysteriousGEGL> yeah
<cbx33> I sent a patch through last night, but he told me he'd nuked most of my changes,
<cbx33> which may explain it
<cbx33> :S
<MysteriousGEGL> gahh he always does that
<cbx33> yeh, there were a lot of typo changes in there, but he didn't like some of my language changes
<cbx33> bbl guys
<Kulissenschieber> hello
<Kulissenschieber> every time i try to start tuxpaint with gcompris, the app. freeze
<Kulissenschieber> is it possible to fix that problem?
<Kulissenschieber> how can i find out why it happened?
* Yagisan waves G'day
* highvoltage waves back to Yagisan 
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: does this freezing happen on a thin client, or a stand-alone machine?
<Kulissenschieber> stand-alone
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: edubuntu is this the edubuntu dapper beta? sounds like it might be a bug
<Kulissenschieber> sorry, yes it is dapper beta
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: do you mind hanging around a bit?
<Kulissenschieber> but it also freezes with earlier flights
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: would be nice to test on another pc, to see if we can reproduce that. it might have slipped through testing
<Kulissenschieber> i have tested it on 3 diff. mashines, always the same
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: ok, i suggest you log a bug report on http://launchpad.net
<highvoltage> Kulissenschieber: please mention that this bug happens with different flights, on different machines.
<Kulissenschieber> ok, i will see if i can do that, it will be my first bug report ;)
<ogra> please assign it to edubuntu-bugs
<ogra> but if i dont get a patch immediately for it i doubt we can fix it, the archive is already locked, packages need approval and a lot of begging to get changes in
* Yagisan wonders why all the bug reports happen 1 or 2 weeks before a new release
<ogra> Yagisan, thats what i wondert as well every release
<mhz> highvoltage: ping
<Yagisan> ogra: it doesn't matter what project, they all come right before the release is due
<ogra> yep
<Yagisan> ogra: I was due to make a release this weekend, and now I get bug reports that I have a RC bug, that somehow nobody noticed
<ogra> but you can move your release date :)
<Yagisan> ogra: well, we are kinda overdue ...
<mhz> highvoltage: ping
<ogra> we either :P
<Yagisan> ogra: so overdue, that gentoo thought we were a dead upstream
<ogra> 6 weeks to be precise :)
<Yagisan> ogra: and sent out a security advisory before contacting us
<ogra> oh, fun ... could you convince them to be alive ? did you send them some blood ?
<Yagisan> ogra: I chastised them. problem being that whle it was a simple fix, others new a few weeks before us
<Yagisan> s/new/knew
<Yagisan> ogra: and it is a remote exploit :(
<ogra> meh
<spacey> nasty
<spacey> whats the name of this project?
<Yagisan> just crashes the server
<spacey> so i'm sure i won't use it :P
<Yagisan> spacey: doomsday
<spacey> ah
<spacey> that game stuff
<Yagisan> spacey: I personally fixed it
<spacey> games are a waste of time Yagisan =)
<Yagisan> spacey: really ? I've found it to be quite productive
<spacey> root@fry:/var/log/apache2# grep yagisan * | wc -l
<spacey> 7524
<spacey> your more popular then i expected :p
<Yagisan> :)
<Yagisan> spacey: you have no idea :)
<Yagisan> spacey: you'll get a surge soon
<Yagisan> spacey: so, what did you expect ?
<Yagisan> spacey: 0 ? 1 ?
<Yagisan> ogra: after dappers release, could I get you to run some software though a dapper powerpc pbuilder ?
<spacey> 100 :p
<ogra> Yagisan, sure
<Yagisan> thanks ogra. I couldn't get ubuntu into any powerpc emulator :(
<Yagisan> spacey: I'll do my best to be the most popular site you host ;)
<spacey> Yagisan: long way to go
<spacey> :)
<spacey> root@fry:/var/log/apache2# grep seveas * | wc -l
<spacey> 26787
<Seveas> heh 
<spacey> :>
<Seveas> and there are 5 other mirrors for that too 
<spacey> i wonder how much GB you burned Seveas
<spacey> :)
<spacey> oh btw
<spacey> i'm gonna reinstall the server tonight
<Seveas> given that java is no longer needed from there (replaced by dummy packages that install ubuntu sun java) the GB's won't be as much
<spacey> but the repo's should be back up tomorrow or so
<Seveas> if only nx/freenx were in good shape 
<spacey> Seveas: nx has some problems on dapper
<spacey> dbus doesn't get loaded
<spacey> breaks epiphany and stuff
<Seveas> yep
<Seveas> I'll have to poke at the session scripts
<spacey> apparently epiphany depends on dbus. don't see way.
<Seveas> I hope to fix these things next week-ish
<spacey> Seveas: yeah should be easy to fix, just couldn't find the NX session scripts that quickly
<spacey>  if you look at /etc/X11/session.d it looks fairly easy
<spacey> sessions.d
<spacey> or not
<spacey> anyway =)
<Seveas> I know
<Seveas> I just don't have the time
<Seveas> and I am waiting for slh to upload a new version
<spacey> slh?
<lucasvo> hi
<Seveas> kanotix maintainer, I'm using his packages
<spacey> ah yeah,
<spacey> reminds me i have to call a kanotix fanboy
<spacey> first gonna try xen live cd
<spacey> i wonder what it does
<spacey> brb
<highvoltage> mhz: pong
<highvoltage> mhz: i think you made a mistake in the dates
<mhz> ?
<highvoltage> mhz: JaneW says the summit lasts until the 23rd?
<mhz> highvoltage: tue-wed?
<mhz> yes, I know. That is why I sent the last email stating we'll have extra meetings in order to make it happen for 27 and 28 th :D
<mhz> highvoltage: then, I guess you'll be able to come?
<mhz> highvoltage: Luke can't on those dates either :(
<mhz> highvoltage: now I am resgistered to freenode ... sorry, I saw no PM's
<highvoltage> mhz: yep
<highvoltage> mhz: i seem to be 1 mail behind you every time ;)
<highvoltage> mhz: ah
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, busy filling in leave forms now, will add those dates ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: thx. Is your resume ready?
* mhz hopes highvoltage remembers mhz will have no access to his backup HD until tomorrow and that meeting is now :)
<spacey> xen is quite nice
<spacey> i think
<spacey> i hope the intergration in ubuntu is not to horrible
<ogra> so where is the edubuntu-testing team ? did anybody do any tests yet ? 
<ogra> Kulissenschieber, yvesC is gcompris upstream developer, he probably knows whats going on with your tuxpaint bug (did you file it already ?)
<highvoltage> ogra: gcompris is on the testing list, but seems like no one encountered it before
<ogra> highvoltage, the two sentences were unrelated :)
<ogra> i need CD test results today 
<highvoltage> ogra: i've opened tuxpaint from gcompris a while back, and it worked (was with flight 2, iirc), but seems like it came in since that
<ogra> as many as possible
<highvoltage> ogra: does it have to be from beta2?
<ogra> it has to be from the current build
<highvoltage> daily build?
<ogra> which will be locked completely from tomorrow on
<ogra> yep
<ogra> dont test the i386 liveCd yet, its broken
<highvoltage> should i mail the list for a call for testing, or do you want to do that?
<Kulissenschieber> ogra: no, i did not file it yet - don't know how - not much time (gotta work) - and it's not so easy for me to explain in english (german guy) - gonna try it tonight, when i'm back home
<ogra> i thought that nearly everyone agreed in last the meeting to help testing today would be enough *sigh*
<ogra> Kulissenschieber, i'm also in edubuntu-de but without a patch i wont have time to fix it though the nightshift i apparently have to do due to lack of testers
<ogra> so the only chance for now is to file a bug and with luck upstream has an idea that i can upload quickly
<jsgotangco> errr what happened here?
<jsgotangco> ogra: you need a quick test on something?
<ogra> jsgotangco, no quick tests anymore
<ogra> we're preparing the release ... i need full tests :)
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> do you need it now?
<jsgotangco> i only tried today's amd64 as a workstation
<ogra> did that work ? 
<jsgotangco> yes
<ogra> from text install or liveCD ?
<jsgotangco> text install
<ogra> thanks ! :)
<jsgotangco> its the least that i can do, i don't have that much bandwidth nor machines to try out an ltsp setup
<jsgotangco> (time even)
<ogra> that'd be cool, even you wont be able to test it without amd64 client :)
<jsgotangco> i have 2 amd64 machines but the constraint really is bandwidth :)
<ogra> you can run: mount /cdrom && sudo apt-get injstall ltsp-server-standalone && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirrot file:///cdrom
<ogra> s/injstall/install
<highvoltage> s/morrot/mirror too :)
<ogra> heh, yes
<pygi> JaneW, poke
<JaneW> pygi: just off to gym, will be back in a few hours
<JaneW> mail me
<pygi> JaneW, argh, we have to deal with something, but ok :-/
<pygi> enjoy exercise :)
<mhz> highvoltage: any cv I can get? :)
<mhz> highvoltage: any conf. letter I can get? :)
* mhz has made lot of extra time but can't do it any more ;)
<highvoltage> mhz: what's your local time?
<mhz> 11:40 AM
<mhz> neurogeek: hi mon
<highvoltage> mhz: keep in mind that i only got your email this morning after being out of office the entire last week
<highvoltage> mhz: but i'll get it to you asap (working on it now)
<mhz> neurogeek: any chance you can make strusberg to come over? Or ask him to please answer my last emails?
<neurogeek> mhz, hello man.. 
<mhz> highvoltage: yup, mon I know you are not wasting your time, no worries. I had to "bug you" anyways, for the record :D
<neurogeek> mhz, i don't think so.. because im not around :s
<mhz> neurogeek: is latinux and your project going ok?
<mhz> neurogeek: oooh, no longer with him?
<highvoltage> mhz: 1/2 sent!
<highvoltage> mhz: does it have to be a very formal c.v. / resume?
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> our keynote speaker mr. jonathan carter
<jsgotangco> lol
<highvoltage> mhz: i don't really have an up to date one, would my linux / education work experience be enough
<mhz> highvoltage: nope, as long as it is a CV format
* highvoltage stares at jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: are you making fun of me!? ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: sure + the foundation one?
<mhz> jsgotangco: speaker + member dejavu
<mhz> oh, member twice, i mean
<jsgotangco> yes, as ajmitch has made fun of me before when i got invited to speak in south korea
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, but then i reserve the right to make fun of someone else again, which just might be you
<jsgotangco> (actually I was a jdub replacement)
* highvoltage met jdub last week
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: nah, but YOU got invited to talk, i was a replacement heh
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, if highvoltage can't make it, you might be a replacement here :)
<mhz> but don't think of it as replacement... it is just that if it were my money, I'd bring the whole Edubuntu gang!
<jsgotangco> chile is like hmm 15 hours, when i get there, you better make sure some fine virgins are available
* jsgotangco couldn't believe he just said that
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: lol
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehehe, are you running on "low battery" ?
<mhz> or too much idel time?
<mhz> idle
<jsgotangco> mhz: more like too little time to be idle
<mhz> oooh
<mhz> that's because you drink too much :D
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i think we should spec out for eft how to ease up some of ogra's work on edubuntu
<jsgotangco> :D
<jsgotangco> like start packaging ourselves lol
<mhz> rofl!
<ogra> testing the CDs *today* would be a major help 
<ogra> so i wouldnt have to work the next 48h
<jsgotangco> i'll test all amd64 from now on starting today
<ogra> (no i dont mean jsgotangco, he has tested at least one arch)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: that might not be a bad idea, hey
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: at least informally
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mhz> ogra: I can test,sure. The only thing is I need to download each time
<ogra> rsync :)
<mhz> so, my testings can start tomorrow
<highvoltage> ogra: have you sent a mail to -devel for testers?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<mhz> ogra: yeah, but rsync kept taking as long as downloading
<highvoltage> ogra: i would like to test, but i have close to 0 bandwidth
<ogra> use --help to see the option
<jsgotangco> won't rysncs affect the image name change?
<mhz> plus, I have to download at 2 diff. places at same time :(
<ogra> we wont have an image name change
<jsgotangco> ogra: cool
<ogra> :)
<ogra> (see -devel ML ;) )
* jsgotangco imagines it would be painful
<highvoltage> Evolution: getting message 87 of 111
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<highvoltage> ogra: ^^^ will see it in a few minutes ;)
<jsgotangco> ok even ubuntu-server will not get renamed
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> that's good
<jsgotangco> (i test both)
<mhz> ogra: I was told by nomed (xubuntu and dsslive) that Xubuntu is now doing some progress with LTSP. Know abythiong about it?
<ogra> the have the packages on the CD afaik
<ogra> no idea about the udeb
<mhz> so far, my xubuntu tests for Edubuntu is working very well
<mhz> oh
<ogra> i'm totally not intrested in xubuntu tests
<mhz> I am demoing dapper tomorrow, and I have set Xubuntu to look like edubuntu defaults (a bit)
<ogra> sorryx, but i'm very disappointed, there was an overwhelming feedback when i asked for tests in the last meeting, now i'm left with it alone again
<highvoltage> mhz: i know about it, i talked to janimo about xubuntu and tuxlabs
<highvoltage> mhz: so he said he'll try to get ltsp in xubuntu
<mhz> ogra: what you mean?
<highvoltage> mhz: i think xubuntu does have the ltsp packages
* mhz does not want to have ogra alone so mhz needs to know how he can help
<mhz> highvoltage: okis, will find out after release
<ogra> mhz, i'm just recovering from a 54h worksession i did last week and i wont get sleep the next two days again, since nobody of the people from last meeting who shouted they'd help today are here, so please bear me if i react a bit harsh atm on xubuntu catter
<ogra> *chatter
<highvoltage> ogra: i would be able to rsync to latest build overnight, would it help in any slightest bit if i do some testing on it tomorrow too? or will that not be of use?
<ogra> btw, edubuntu-docs wont make it
<ogra> there is no way to make it work with the liveCd
<ogra> (apart from me not having time to fiddle with seeds)
<ogra> highvoltage, *any* testing is helpful at this stage
<mhz> ogra: no worries, I now see what you mean. And as I have not been in all last 10 meetings or so, I have been very disconected from what current needs are. So, if you think I can be of any help, just let me know, I wont dissapoint you.
<ogra> mhz, its a more general disappointment on my side atm
<ogra> not about anyone specifically
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'm starting the rsync now
<highvoltage> gtg home (been at work for 11 hours)
<highvoltage> mhz: will send that mail from home
<highvoltage> ciao
<jsgotangco> time to make use of CDRWs ;)
<mhz> ogra: ok, but remeber it is very healthy to shout sometimes just to relax a bit
<mhz> and if you think I can help, dont hesitate on telling me
<ogra> that assumes you have a chance to relax
<mhz> oh
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> well, if Paris did not take place in such dates, you would have recieved an inviatition for FET in Chile, and then, we would have offered lots of ways for you to relax
<mhz> including a Train that travels along the Wineyards route
<mhz> nice girls serving food and wine on boards
<mhz> -s
<mhz> ogra: then, you say it is time to get a new image?
<ogra> current dailies (apart from i386 live) should be fine
<mhz> oh, then, need me to get i386 Live ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> everything else
* mhz is missing some english or he's too dumb today :) 
<mhz> Then, you mean, Mhz, just get AMD and i386 latest installs ?
<ogra> everything but i386 live is ready for testing
<jsgotangco> mhz: you can ask ogra for a ppc test unit if you want to
<jsgotangco> ;)
<jsgotangco> (not that we have lots of ppc users but hey)
<ogra> we even had complaints about missing ppc-live in breezy :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: ? "(not that we have lots of ppc users but hey)"
<jsgotangco> gahhh
* jsgotangco prepares for brutal axe murder of ppc in a few years
<mhz> the only PPC I have is an oldworld wallstreet BUT it is either dead on MotherBoard or Processor
<ogra> even in a few years they will be around as thin clients
<mhz> and money is not enough to pay for parts and try :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: time to roll out those 800MB CDs that you said before :P
<mhz> oh, yeah, they work very well.
* mhz has 2 left
<mhz> ohhh, maybe I can have faster download at my friend's cyber, anbd then test CD's there. IIRC they are x86 though
<jsgotangco> pygi: are you finishing up the "needs mentor" stuff for SoC?
<ogra> isnt that closed already ? 
<pygi> jsgotangco, trying :)
<jsgotangco> he's just cleanin up the empty fields of those qualified
<pygi> ogra, 17:00 PDT time - locked
<pygi> jsgotangco, congrats on mentoring :)
<jsgotangco> thank you
<pygi> jsgotangco, :)
<pygi> make it the best :)
<pygi> I am not sure about this application :-/
<pygi> ogra, jsgotangco ...
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=gregcig%40gmail.com%3A1261a8f9%3A5802a1fc
<pygi> thoughts?
<jsgotangco> checking
<pygi> we don't even have a mentor for that :-/
<pygi> and creating a completely new IDE?
<jsgotangco> it looks very niche and isn't IDLE enough :/
<pygi> jsgotangco, so advice on what should I do with it? :-/
<jsgotangco> well if the applicant will be able to amend the proposal based on pitti's suggestion I guess its workable
<pygi> jsgotangco, what about mentor?
<jsgotangco> i cannot say...
<pygi> ogra, poke? :)
<pygi> I can't mentor 100 applications :-/
<ogra> pygi, i dont have time for SoC crap this week, please dont poke me
<pygi> ah
* pygi appologises :)
<ogra> pygi, sorry, but we're all very busy getting the release done until tomorrow
<pygi> ogra, yes, I am aware of that, no problem
<pygi> jsgotangco, you have time ? 
<pygi> I need thoughts on two more applications
<jsgotangco> yes no problem
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=matthew.isaacs%40gmail.com%3A166fb5ed%3Ac3ec1070
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=brian.william.davis%40gmail.com%3A015516e7%3Aa0a2bd49
<jsgotangco> i am indifferent to the xorg frontend
<pygi> oki, and the other one?
<jsgotangco> just reading now
<jsgotangco> the xorg proposal is too much
<jsgotangco> the gedit plugin is reasonable, however, how useful it would be for most users is questionable and as vuntz commented its better off as a gnome proposal
<pygi> yea, but it wasnt applied to gnome...
<pygi> we have one empty spot I believe for a good project, so...
<jsgotangco> i'd go for the gedit plugin
<pygi> and yea, wanted to ask you (I believe you might be good for that project mentoring) ...
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=anselmolsm%40gmail.com%3A13fa67d5%3A4b6bb472
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i like this
<pygi> indeed, me too :)
<pygi> that's why "bumping up" :)
<jsgotangco> it would be nice to see it as part of pessulus in the future
<jsgotangco> do you want me to bump it?
* jsgotangco likes it and its workable
<pygi> I would really like to see you mentor that
<pygi> yup, you can bump it up as well
<jsgotangco> i'd mentor it sure, im very much an epi person
<pygi> oki, I'll try to help
<pygi> :)
<jsgotangco> i have to sleep though
<jsgotangco> but yeah, i like the safety boat proposal
<pygi> oki, sleep tight :)
<mhz> ogra: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<mhz> is there any sheet or form you need us to fill in?
<mhz> cbx33: hi there
<cbx33> mhz, I'm currently working on the testing report templates
<mhz> cbx33: any form to fill in by users testind daily cds?
<mhz> ooh, okis
<cbx33> I'll be back in a few minutes and I'll have all the answers then :p
<ogra> mhz, dunno, where does this page come from ? 
<ogra> we should use Testing/Edubuntu 
<cbx33> btw, the wiki seems to have died here:
<mhz> ogra: well, it's you who created it: 2005-08-18 13:36:27
* mhz loves Moin!
<mhz> cbx33: "here:" ?
* mhz is reading https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu 
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/ReportTemplate
<cbx33> is the template we were considering using, I was going to work this up tonight ready for the week of testing
<mhz> cbx33: you mean we can now use it?
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/TestingPlan - needs work too
<cbx33> mhz, feel fre to use it for submitting a report on testing the cd
<mhz> cbx33: I can help on that those, after lunch, if you are ok with it
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> gimme a few minuste and I'll be back ready to get on with it
<ogra> please use what i mentioned above
<mhz> cbx33: has been reporting bugs for Dapper for some time now
<mhz> cbx33: sorrt, caravena 
<ogra> its not the time to test the testing pages some hours before everything is locked down
<mhz> ?
* mhz is now confused
<ogra> <ogra> we should use Testing/Edubuntu #
<mhz> so... not needed? then what kind of "testing" you'd prefer ogra ?
<mhz> ogra: the only match for Testing/Edubuntu I get is: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<mhz> is that what you mean?
<ogra> *SIGH*
<mhz> sorry
<ogra> use Testing/CurrentEdubuntu 
<mhz> okis, then that it is
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<ogra> sorry, i'm merely annoyed, and the fact that all my media is broken desnt make it better
<mhz> caravena: entonces, usamos https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
* cbx33 offers anything to help
<ogra> cbx33, testing
<caravena> mhz: ok
* mhz is forced to have lunch with family and get back
<mhz> caravena: gracias
<ogra> cbx33, all except i386 live needs urgent testing
<cbx33> ogra, I can test AMD64 live tomorrow
<ogra> ok, even that wont help much but do it then
<cbx33> and can test i386 installs tomorrow too
<ogra> i needed testers today archive will be locked soon
<cbx33> if you're really pushed I can test the i386's installs
<ogra> (as i said several times in the last meeting, where evrybody agreed)
<cbx33> sorry ogra, you said all the next week, i took that to mean I could test tuesday
<cbx33> as I'm off work today
<cbx33> I'll get downloading
<cbx33> normal place?
<ogra> sure, but the important tests take place befor the archive is closed indeed (which will happen tomorrow)
<cbx33> ok, so I'm goign for the daily install yes?
<cbx33> make sure I get the right ones so i don;t screw up
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> I'm on it
<ogra> thanks :)))
<cbx33> I'll try to test all the different installs, is it just the installation procedure you need testing or do you want throrough app testing too?
<ogra> youre one of the people in here with bandwith, so i really appreciate it
<caravena> problem in link of download -> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<cbx33> you know I try my best
<caravena> Test Fligh5?
<ogra> basic app testing like atrta atomix and play on elvel
<ogra> *start
<ogra> nope
<ogra> daily live
<cbx33> np ogra 
<ogra> and daily install
<cbx33> cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ogra> (with an exception of i386 live currently)
<cbx33> cdimages.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060522/
<cbx33> ogra, preferably you want real installs but is VMware ok, then I can set two installing at once :p
<cbx33> I'll wipe my current dapper off my laptop, install one on there ,but can test another in VMware too
<caravena> VMware work in Dapper?
<LaserJock> caravena: I think so
<cbx33> I'll be running it in breezy, but it doesn't matter
<caravena> cbx33: howto install vmware in Dapper? I problem in install vmware for kernel of Dapper (2.6.15-X)
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> if it can't find a kernel module it should compile it's own
<caravena> (Sorry my english is very bad...)
<cbx33> caravena, just download the tarball
<cbx33> extract and run the installation
<caravena> You version of vmware?
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> bear in mind I havn't tried it on dapper
<cbx33> I would do, but I'm just about to destroy my dapper install so I can test these install cd
<cbx33> caravena, just give it a go and shout if you get stuck....I have to test these CDs
<caravena> cbx33: You version of vmware?
<cbx33> build 22874
<cbx33> there's probably a newer one out by now
<caravena> 5.5?
<cbx33> what build version is it?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> i installed a local copy too, and it works fine
<highvoltage> except that the 'search' button is empty
<highvoltage> even my fancy url's work ;)
<cbx33> oooh nice
<cbx33> highvoltage, yes i noticed that about the search button too
<cbx33> probably just a mismatched css style
<cbx33> ogra, sorry to bug you, is a VMware install acceptable?
<ogra> cbx33, *any* install is 
<ogra> indeed real HW is preferred ;)
<cbx33> I know, and I can do some more real isntalls tomorrow
<cbx33> but now I have 2 machiens, one i don;t care about and the other with VMware
<cbx33> so I can isntall two at once
<cbx33> my bandwidth this month is 4.5G out of 30G so I have plenty left
<cbx33> 20 mins left on the iso download :p
<ogra> cbx33, use rsync in the future 
<ogra> cbx33, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<cbx33> I'm in a different place
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> run it with --help to see the option
<cbx33> havn't downloaded any here before
<cbx33> I've used that at work though
<cbx33> ogra, on the testing matrix,
<cbx33> are you after , when you say CD Installation, erase disk, any type of install, expert, server, OEM ???
<cbx33> if I install the CD using the erase disk, in expert mode, can i check 2 boxes?
<ogra> any you can do
<cbx33> ogra, you know me bud I'll try and do them all if I can...Just can't test the DVD ones
<cbx33> not at the moment anyway, don't have any media
<ogra> dont worry
<cbx33> where do we get the DVD's from anyway?
<cbx33> I could probably test those tomorrow on VMWare
<ogra> should be anywhere on cdimage
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> and what is  CD/DVD winfoss
<cbx33> running the CD under windows?
<ogra> only the liveCD
<ogra> and not intresting for us
<cbx33> ok, I'll skip that then shall i?
<ogra> we dont have it
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> indeed you can try to test it, but you wont have much luck
<cbx33> the dvd is a day old
<cbx33> will that be updated by tomorrow?
<ogra> likely
<ogra> i never tested the DVD
<cbx33> I'll try and test it tomorrow for you
<ogra> and i'll only do it if i find time before release
<ogra> its not high prio
<LaserJock> ogra: anything you need me to do? or is everything in good hands already?
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> nope, i'm looking for testers
<ogra> everything is in my hands again as always ... :/
<lucasvo> ogra: is there anything I can test without a fresh installation?
<cbx33> lucasvo, probably not
<ogra> ppc live/amd64 live
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> (i386 is broken until next build)
<cbx33> if you still need amd live I can do it tomorrow
<ogra> sure
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, it's too bad you don't have another core-dev to help :(
<ogra> all isos apart from i386 live
<cbx33> ogra, I'll do what I can tonight, if you still need more just let me know your priorities and I'll download and test tomrrow at work
<ogra> LaserJock, i dont need core devs to test isos :)
<cbx33> ogra, needs some minions
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, but you might to fix stuff that comes up in the tests ;-)
<cbx33> and damn it if I'm not a minion
<LaserJock> lol
<cbx33> LaserJock, true
<cbx33> but we'll just have to do what we can
* cbx33 has an md5 verified iso
<cbx33> burning 2 cd's now
<mhz_food> cbx33: re
<ogra> LaserJock, thats trivial ...
<ogra> the painfull stuff theer is the delay of the buildds
<mhz> so, after reading... only fresh install testers are good
<cbx33> mhz, yes
<ogra> mhz, NO !
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> live testers are very appreciated
<cbx33> I was kidding mhz 
<LaserJock> ogra: but not i386 live :(
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> nope
<ogra> until the next build is up
<cbx33> is there going to be another build today?
<ogra> during the next 4-6h, yes
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> I might be able to do that then :-)
<cbx33> ogra, want me to verify all medai before installing?
<ogra> as you like 
<cbx33> np
<ogra> not urgently needed
<ogra> (seems i386 just installed fine here)
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> if you can install, the media was fine ;)
<ogra> if you cant you can check the media
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> burning disk 2
<mhz> guys, please.... my english communication skills are VERY poor these days
<mhz> cbx33: can you give me an "official notice"
<cbx33> anything official comes from ogra 
<cbx33> we need testing for i386 AMD64 PPC installs
* mhz has just convinced a friend with 4 MBps ISP to let him use his mahines and bandwith to download everything needed and test
<cbx33> mhz, what machines fo you have to hand?
<lucasvo> mhz: too bad one cannot share bandwith
<cbx33> do you ahve and AMD64 or PPC machines>?
<ogra> mhz, please test: dapper-install-powerpc.iso, dapper-install-amd64.iso  or dapper-install-i386.iso :)
<lucasvo> mhz: I mean globally :)
<mhz> not sure yet, I did not ask but I guess it will be those PIV stuff :(
<ogra> mhz, or dapper-live-powerpc.iso and dapper-live-amd64.iso :)
<mhz> cbx33: nope, but if those machines are PIV, they may have about 512 or 1 GHz of ram, so I may try virtual hardware 
<mhz> ogra: thx, that is CLEAR english to my eyes
* mhz prepares everythin to rollerskate to his friends cyber
<DeMoNSeEd> hello
<mhz> hi, DeMoNSeEd 
<DeMoNSeEd> hi, how ya been
<DeMoNSeEd> hopefully you can help me oot
<mhz> highvoltage: thx, just opening evince
<mhz> oot?
<highvoltage> oot?
* mhz is writing email to ubuntu-cl and edubuntu-devel-es people, just in case, encouraging them to test Ogra's request
<DeMoNSeEd> i'm on Shipit, going to oder Dap, I want to oder Edubuntu as well as Ubuntu, i can't seem to find where to select it...oot irc slang for out
<mhz> highvoltage: hmm DeMoNSeEd said "oot"
<DeMoNSeEd> i thought Edubuntu was supposed to be one of the options
<ogra> shipit.edubuntu.org has them for me
<DeMoNSeEd> thanks ogra
<lucasvo> W 13
<cbx33> highvoltage, will the css theme be up soon?
<DeMoNSeEd> i was going by what i seen on D.W
<lucasvo> DeMoNSeEd: D.W?
<DeMoNSeEd> Distrowatch
<DeMoNSeEd> the way they have it written up, it's misleading
<lucasvo> DeMoNSeEd: well, you can order Kubuntu cd's at shipit.kubuntu.org, ubuntu cds at shipit.ubuntu.org and edubuntu cds at shipit.edubuntu.org
<DeMoNSeEd> k, i'll send a note later to Distrowatch, it would be clearer if he indicated that in the announcement
* mhz thought about 'ogruntu' :D
<LaserJock> nice
<DeMoNSeEd> thanks guys
<DeMoNSeEd> bye
<highvoltage> shees, you know you need some sleep when you start confusing distrowatch with baywatch
<mhz> LaserJock: but oruntu might be to buggy :D
<mhz> ogruntu
<mhz> highvoltage: lol
<cbx33> ogra is never buggy
<mhz> well, cbx33 you may endup with a 'drunk' system :)
<cbx33> not with ogra behind the wheel
<ogra> heh, only occasionally :)
<cbx33> ey captain ?
<mhz> cbx33: so, okis, I am about to send email to -es and -cl people. They get the iso's, they install and then just submit to LP or wiki page?
<ogra> (but not while driving ;) )
<cbx33> my illusions have been shattered
<cbx33> mhz, wiki page
<mhz> okis
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<mhz> roger that
<mhz> :D
<cbx33> I'm just doing a normal Guided install
<cbx33> and a Server Full erase install
* mhz feels so bad now. Mhz realizes if he would have been present in IRC more often, maybe he could have encouraged more spanish-speakers to help
<mhz> (long ago)
<cbx33> mhz, hindsight is a wonderful thing
<mhz> cbx33: hindsight is an application?
<cbx33> i wish it were....
<cbx33> hindsight is realising how amazing something would have been if you'd done it along time ago
<highvoltage> apt-cache search hindsight returns nothing
<highvoltage> goodnight gang Edubuntu :)
<ogra> ciao highvoltage 
<highvoltage> ciao ogra!
<mhz> cbx33: oh, i see.. yeah, wonderful and painful
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> cbx33: how can users test Moodel and Schooltool?
<mhz> moodle
* mhz hasn't tried
<ogra> why should they test moodle
<mhz> hmm, oh, just the install?
* mhz slaps himself
<ogra> no, they can check schooltool
<ogra> http://localhost:7080/ iirc
<mhz> ogra: yup, 7080
<ogra> grmbl 
<ogra> the edubuntu firefox css is broken 
<LaserJock> :/
<ogra> only in the english page though
<ogra> so who cares, i use german :P
<mhz> ogra: well, my spanish environement gets me to a Firefox index-es-AR which is in english
<ogra> thats ok
<ogra> has it css ?
<mhz> mdke said that you were the one to make it work :D I already have it translated into spanish.
<mhz> hmm, I translated the text of it. I guess that is CSS independant as I did not touch that part
<LaserJock> yikes, I just found 7 bugs filed against squeak-vm :(
<ogra> 7 new ones ? 
<ogra> we should subscribe edubuntu-bugs to squeak so we're aware of them in the future
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> they are mostly new
<pygi> JaneW, poke
<JaneW> hi pygi
<pygi> JaneW, what is happening?
<pygi> the emblems application dissapeared for a sec
<pygi> and some weird things are happening
<cbx33> hi JaneW 
<mhz> cbx33: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu says F5... is that correct? /me doubts it
<JaneW> pygi: I am assigning and stuff
<cbx33> that's wrong
<pygi> JaneW, we just need mentor for "Improving emblems" and I would suggest we add that "Gedit plugin" instead of that "Samba config"
<pygi> JaneW, ah,oki, saw my mail?
<mhz> and if users edit such page... should we provide a diff syntaxis for them to use when talking about dailies?
<cbx33> ogra normal guided and server erase disk are complete
<ogra> cbx33, any bugs found ? 
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> all installed without a hitch
<cbx33> is that 4 i can tick off
<Amaranth> so, uh, what should i do about willow?
<Amaranth> the license info is a bit off
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, you have one file you can use
<Amaranth> heh
<LaserJock> ogra: hehe, thanks ;-)
<ogra> thansk for applying ;)
<mhz> cbx33: so, D-0522 for Daily 0522? and keep Fx for normal Flights? or just use Fx and no need for D-MMdd?
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, if I were you,I would just start writing with a goal to be able to integrate the existing work if possible. Time is not that long
<ogra> cbx33, can you also look around a bit and do things like starting firefox etc ...
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: true but i'd rather not have to lose all that code
<ogra> (i.e. the ff default css is broken)
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, is there any small piece you could do without needing contact from him?
<Burgundavia> a pygtk control panel, say?
<Amaranth> yeah, i suppose
<JaneW> pygi: who wants to do the emblem one? It seems they think it should be upstream...?
<Burgundavia> but you don't know any python, do you :P
<ogra> Burgundavia, exactly, thats why he was selected for a python based proxy app ;) Google Summer of Learning ;)
<pygi> JaneW, I am just trying to contact vuntz for that
<pygi> do you know anyone else from gnome??
<JaneW> pygi: yes, if he wants to mentor is within ubuntu fine, but he thinks it should be in Gnome
<JaneW> jdub
<pygi> oki, lemme poke him
<Burgundavia> ogra, summer of flailing?
<Amaranth> hahah
<Burgundavia> ogra, what can we do to help you get ready for release?
<ogra> Burgundavia, well, last time was rather the summer of failing ...
<pygi> JaneW, oki, I am just talking with a gnome mentor
<ogra> Burgundavia, test test test
<Amaranth> I didn't know I had to be a snake charmer, this wasn't in the job description. ;)
<Burgundavia> does that I actually have to download edubuntu?
<ogra> iso install tests, iso live tests
<ogra> yeah
<JaneW> pygi: we need someons for Ubuntu/X/Gnome Display Configuration
<LaserJock> ogra: is i386 live ok to test now?
<pygi> JaneW, hm, what are we going to drop in favor of that?
<ogra> LaserJock, there was no new edubuntu build yet afaik
<cbx33> what is the standard install called?
<cbx33> the fist option?
<pygi> JaneW, we can drop currently Glaunchpad and that Samba config (so we put in that X display conf, and that gedit plugin?)
<LaserJock> ogra: I see a daily for it on cdimages. is that wrong?
<cbx33> that's not OEM is it?
<ogra> Burgundavia, once you have your iso, use rsync (http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh might also help)
<Burgundavia> ogra, yep
<JaneW> pygi: oh wait I refreshed and now we are good
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060522/dapper-live-i386.OVERSIZED  
<ogra> LaserJock, ^^^
<Burgundavia> ogra, you realize you are ruining my perfect reputation, no?
<JaneW> pygi: except for emblems which we need to drop - or assign.
<ogra> thats the lastest ... and apparently still broken :)
<pygi> JaneW, well, we can still drop Glaunchpad and Samba in favor of those two I mentioned
<pygi> JaneW, we can drop emblems
<ogra> LaserJock, amd64 and ppc would be testable though
<pygi> JaneW, it will be mentored by gnome
<lucasvo> Glaunchpad???
<lucasvo> sounds like GTK 
<cbx33> ogra, is OEM the first option on the install list?
<ogra> Burgundavia, i can keep quiet if needed
<Burgundavia> ogra, lol
<ogra> cbx33, where ?
<cbx33> and where is workstation?
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<pygi> JaneW, lets drop emblems for now, and lets see where we stand
<JaneW> pygi: we need someone for Ubuntu/X/Gnome Display Configuration
<pygi> JaneW, hm, poke dholbach? :)
<ogra> cbx33, thats just the ubuntu wikipage copied to edubuntu, just ignore modes not available
<Burgundavia> pygi, you should take a look at system-config-xfree86 if you are going to do an X configurator
<cbx33> ok, shall I add one for workstation?
<pygi> Burgundavia, it's not my application :)
<Burgundavia> ah
<JaneW> pygi: he is nto around
<cbx33> or modify the OEM to workstation?
<pygi> JaneW, argh, assign to vuntz? :)
<pygi> and btw. do we really want that application?
<ogra> cbx33, oh, there is none for WS, right, modify it 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> do we have expert ?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but to be honest, i wouldnt know if it even worked in breezy (never tested)
<cbx33> ok cool
* cbx33 had to use it
<pygi> JaneW, I might also be of help to Brian Davis (that gedit plugin)
<cbx33> bloody proxies
<Burgundavia> cbx33, where are we at with ESA?
<cbx33> jsgotangco noticed some typos
<cbx33> probably ones that i fixed with the cahnges you didn't include
<JaneW> pygi: well I'll asdsign whichever one gets a mentor's 'I will mentor this' mark
<pygi> JaneW, you can assign me to that Gedit plugin
<pygi> oki, it just got that mark :P
<cbx33> as far as I'm concerened we're frozen
<Burgundavia> cbx33, I think so to
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> well done to all who worked on ESA
<cbx33> I'll be moving it to drupal in the coming days
<pygi> JaneW, oki, just one more question
<pygi> are we going to leave that samba thing or are we going to put X conf instead?
<pygi> *altought we don't have a real mentor for it*
<JaneW> pygi: you have 3 now, you should hand one to dholbach if appropriate
<JaneW> I think we can still shuffle after tomorrow
<pygi> nah, I am fine with 3 if you are also :)
<pygi> hm, why is this Pitti?
<pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=b.ghose%40gmail.com%3Afa836539%3A9934be7c
<pygi> shouldnt this be mvo?
<JaneW> mvo has 3 already
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<cbx33> ogra, just starting off workstation-resize
<cbx33> and expert-erase :D
<pygi> JaneW, no need to take away any of applications to me
<pygi> I am sure I'll be able to handle them, because those people are really great :)
<JaneW> ok
<pygi> thanks :)
<LaserJock> ogra: is it ok if I assign edubuntu-bugs as an initial bug contact for squeak-* ?
<ogra> LaserJock, yep
<pygi> JaneW, and Michael has just one project, but nvm :)
<JaneW> pygi: he did have 3
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<JaneW> earlier
<pygi> JaneW, ah,ok :)
<LaserJock> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<pygi> as long as you don't take anything away from me, it's all good :)
<ogra> LaserJock, oh, tuxpaint-stamps has an own sourcepackage ? 
<pygi> bye now, I gotta run :)
<pygi> Thank JaneW for all :)
<JaneW> pygi: thanks for your help :)
<pygi> JaneW, no need to thank me :)
<pygi> enjoy :)
<JaneW> see you tomorrow
<LaserJock> ogra: looks like it. tuxpaint, tuxpaint-config, and tuxpaint-stamps
<ogra> funny, i wasnt aware anymore (even though i wrote the inclusion report for it)
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> LaserJock, heh, 36802 is funny
<LaserJock> ogra: yes, he was on a bug reporting spree
<ogra> LaserJock, i'm not sure we want 44952 before checking the packages either, thats edgy stuff
<ogra> thats all very trivial stuff 
<LaserJock> ogra: I agree, the only one that I'd like to fix for dapper is really the browser plugin
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and probably add the icon to the edu menu entry
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why there is no icon
<ogra> does it have two .desktop files ? or just one with two categories ?
<LaserJock> ogra: it should have only one but that bug makes me wonder.
<ogra> making it two will work in any case (even i have no idea if its the *right* way)
<LaserJock> ok, so 1 desktop file is installed
<LaserJock> but I have no idea why it wouldn't use the icon for one but not the other
<LaserJock> s/wouldn't/would/
<ogra> lets ask dholbach tomorrow, probably its a dh_iconcache prob
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> in the mean time I'll try to figure out exactly where the plugin should go
<ogra> its multiverse anyway, there is still plenty of time to upload
<LaserJock> ogra: I think I can just symlink /usr/lib/squeak/3.7-7/npsqueak.so to /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/ but I want to make sure that is the proper way to do it
<ogra> LaserJock, then you should ask iwj, i'm also not sure if npsqueak is built with firefox-dev or mozilla-dev
<ogra> preferably it should be firefox-dev if that works
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm, there isn't any build-dep on them. I'm reading the plugin readme
<LaserJock> it says you can run npsqueakregister to find what browsers are installed and do the proper symlinks
<cbx33> ok seems to be some problmes on expert install
<cbx33> it didn't build the LTSP root, is that usual ogra ?
<ogra> thats possible
<ogra> did you select the menu option explicitly ? 
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> it also didn't appear to copy the 400Mb of extra pacakges to the HDD like it said
<cbx33> want the install log
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<cbx33> here's where I'm at :p
<ogra> nah, but the /var/log/installer/messages
<ogra> (thats from the ltsp build)
<cbx33> it's empty
<ogra> hmm, if you try another expert install any time, make sure to switch to console 3 to see the output
<cbx33> there was no output there
<cbx33> I can try another tomorrow
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<ogra> hmm, on error *anywhere* ?
<ogra> not even in the gui (console 1)
<cbx33> there's 6 installs tested
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> ogra, it just flashed up as if it had finished
<ogra> hmm, thats really strange
<cbx33> there was stuffon con 4
<cbx33> ogra, I'm a little tired now, and my wife is ill, can i test tomorrow?
<cbx33> would that be ok?
<ogra> cbx33, you earn a bag of JaneW's virtual goldstars
<ogra> really
<ogra> thats wonderful work !
<cbx33> np, I'll try to do as many of the others as I can tomorrow
<cbx33> and convert the getting started guide to docbook
<ogra> oh, and you dont need to test "server" it will disappear soon
<ogra> (even its only a 10 min install :) )
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i tested server expert
<cbx33> could that be the problem?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> not really
<ogra> i'll have to look myself
<cbx33> ok till tomorrow
<cbx33> I'll see you later
<ogra> will do that tomorrow, for today all important bugs that need uploads have to be fixed
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> n guys
<cbx33> nn
<ogra> after tomorrow noon (i think) we'll have to beg for every upload
<ogra> night and thanks a lot
<ogra> you really made my day 1
<cbx33> np ogra 
<ogra> !
<ubotu> My cat's name is Mittens! Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, ogra
<cbx33> hopefully I can make tomorrows too :p
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, I will play with patch just posted to ESA
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: k
<LaserJock> so is ESA being included in edubuntu-docs?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, probably too late
<LaserJock> that's what I thought, wasn't sure what all edubuntu-docs contained though
<ogra> LaserJock, we dont even have space for edubuntu-docs itself :(
<ogra> the liveCD is oversized by 4M out of the blue 
<Burgundavia>  after we dump kdeedu, what kind of space savings does that get us?
<ogra> (since saturday, it was fine before)
<ogra> Burgundavia, i'll drop it for testing in the first edgy week
<LaserJock> ogra: :/
<Burgundavia> cool
<ogra> Burgundavia, also we'll have a heavy fight with sabdfl if we really want to drop it ... he promotes edubuntu as "the distro that merges all desktops to get the best out of them for education"
<ogra> s/all/both
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> the gtk education app scene is pretty laclustre, tbh
<Burgundavia> has pitti ever said anything about pygame/sdl?
<Burgundavia> I seem to remember him not being happy about the idea of supporting them
<ogra> not that i remember (but my mind is pretty short today)
<Burgundavia> because pygame opens up childsplay and bunch of stuff up to us
<ogra> i'm not sure childsplay is a good idea 
<ogra> its as big as gcompris and does nothing different 
<ogra> looks like duplication to me
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> but bdoin does not want to pull in pygame, hence childsplay
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but we can only ship one 50MB app for kids 
<Burgundavia> anyway, lets talk about it post dapper
<ogra> (give LaserJock a chance with his science stuff man :) )
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> an idea might to go beyond one disk
<Burgundavia> have the one core disk for a basic installer and a few apps
<Burgundavia> secondary disks for specific needs, such as science or math
<ogra> not sure i can convince our marketing that we need to press two CDs :)
<Burgundavia> just an idea
<ogra> (and nope, DVD isnt an alternative :) )
<Burgundavia> the subsequent cds would only be for specific cds
<Burgundavia> things, even
<ogra> yup, i understand, but since shipit thats not as easy as it was before 
<LaserJock> I think having good meta-packages should work fairly well. I'm not sure what kind of connections most schools have though
<Burgundavia> ya
<ogra> we schoul probably have jigdo files or something to make it easy to build meta CDs
<Burgundavia> realistically, we need to partner with educational foundations/school boards and get them to help us get Edubuntu tothem
<LaserJock> ogra: can we provide a non-shipit cd?
<LaserJock> or does Canonical not want to do that?
<ogra> not sure, we can probably have a second CD for download 
<ogra> i dont know whats needed in debian-cd to make that work
<ogra> brb, reboot
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, as long as the system works with the need for a 2nd cd, I don;'t see any issue
<LaserJock> well, I hope we can use just 1 install cd, but I do think that Universe is a pretty untapped resource for Edubuntu
<Kulissenschieber> hi
<Kulissenschieber> got a little story for you
<Kulissenschieber> a couple of weeks ago, a principal requested me to check 5 contributed pc's, and to install win 2000 - (for free, cause my daughter visited this school )
<Kulissenschieber> i agreed - but i asked him for a presentation on the next school-conference
<Kulissenschieber> 3 hours ago i start the pc and the beamer
<Kulissenschieber> first i showed them, what is win 2000 able to do
<Kulissenschieber> then i restart
<Kulissenschieber> they don't know about edubuntu before
<ogra> :)
<Kulissenschieber> know they know it
<ogra> and did they like it ?
<ogra> :)
<Kulissenschieber> sure
<ogra> Kulissenschieber, wher in germany are you ?
<Kulissenschieber> near heilbronn
<Kulissenschieber> bw
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i'm shuttling between blankenheim/eifel and kassel currently ...
<ogra> so i'm often near heilbronn 
<ogra> for some value of "near" :)
<Kulissenschieber> :)
<Kulissenschieber> so you know koblenz
<ogra> and there is some IT guy from mannheim who is intrested as well in running edubuntu on BW schools (still havent found the time to answer him)
<ogra> yup, sure i know koblenz
<Kulissenschieber> did my alternative service on festung ehrenbreitstein, youth hostel
<Kulissenschieber> who is this it guy - has a nick on irc?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i only have his mail address, i'll invite him to the channel and mailing list though
<Kulissenschieber> good idea - maybe we can help us
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the edubuntu-de channle could also need some more life :)
<LaserJock> there is an edubuntu-de channel?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> like there is an -es channel :)
<LaserJock> figures, you Germans are everywhere
<ogra> but usually lucasvo, juliux and me just idle there
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I can try some German on you guys some time
<Burgundavia> LaserJock, lets face it. Linux is much bigger on the other side of the pond
<ogra> once a month we have an occasional visitor or someone who just mistyped the channel name :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<Burgundavia> the number of people who don't read the /topic or what a mailing list is about is stunning
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i find that /topic thing quite significan ...
<ogra> t
<Burgundavia> doc team seems to get more than most
<LaserJock> I find it amazing what MLs people post asking for help to
<LaserJock> launchpad-users get a fair amount too
<LaserJock> sometimes I want to ask people why they post to the MLs they do just so I can figure it out
<Burgundavia> there was just one that came to lp-uers
<Burgundavia> ogra, have you seen an recent numbers of # of IP's hitting ntp.ubuntu.com?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i have never seen *any* numbers for ntp 
<Burgundavia> last I heard was at UBZ and it was about 3million unique
<ogra> all i know is that this morning already more than 3500 edubuntu CDs were ordered ;)
<ogra> another reboot ... brb
<pips1> ogra, sorry, I didn't understand that testing is needed *today* and not whole week :-( (I just started downloading amd64 text installer iso)
<ogra> pips1, we'll lock the archive tomorrow ... testing *is* needed the whole week, but today was presumably my last *free to upload* day to fix up stuff without begging for every line i changed
<ogra> brb
<pips1> ogra, I'm happy to test an amd64 ltsp server right now, but I only started dowloading that iso and with my bandwith it'll take me 2 h download :-( how does that rsync thing work? can I "update" my flight6 iso sitting on my hard disk with that?
<ogra> pips1, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<ogra> run ./rsyncer --help to see the options
<ogra> err
<ogra> ./rsyncer. --help to see the options
<ogra> grr
<ogra> ./rsyncer.sh --help indeed
<pips1> ogra, ok
<pips1> ogra, errr I'm trying to figure out your rsyncer.sh skript... I chmod +x it and copied it into the folder with a edubuntu-6.06-beta2-live-powerpc.iso and ran ./rsyncer.sh does nothing?
<ogra> first "mkdir edubuntu" in that folder
<pips1> did that
<pips1> (sorry forgot to mention that)
<ogra> then mv edubuntu-6.06-beta2-live-powerpc.iso edubuntu/edubuntu-live-powerpc.iso
<pips1> ah!
<ogra> the ./rsyncer.sh --help
<ogra> (it will download/rsyncv *all* isos if you dont give any options
<pips1> but only those in the dir where I call rsyncer.sh right?
* pips1 reads --help again
<ogra> nope in the distro subdirs (edu/k/ubuntu
<ogra> )
<pips1> right, got you. however, how do I know it actually does anything? if it actually works, the process should run in the forground of that shell, no? also ps aux | grep "rsyncer" gives nothing?
<ogra> hmm
<pips1> maybe I should just continue downloading the whole .iso? (is there a cut off time for that freeze "tomorrow" (or rather today)?)
<ogra> no idea, its all up to mdz
<pips1> ic
<pips1> okay, I'll continue with the whole iso download :-/
<ogra> you can debug the script by setting the "set -e" line to "set -ex"
<ogra> it will spill a lot output then
<ogra> pips1, ah
<ogra> i forgot
<pips1> what?
<ogra> you need ./rsyncer.sh --create edubuntu 
<pips1> I was just about to try the -ex
<pips1> oh
<ogra> :)
<ogra> (probably stop it and add --flavor live --arch powerpc ;) )
<pips1> ok
<ogra> else it will download everything it can grab
<ogra> :)
<pips1> ok, did that. it's now doing its magic :-)
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> its easier than having to remember the rsync commands and urls all the time
<pips1> ic... I haven't used rsync before
<pips1> hmm, still gives me download time of about 2:20 
<pips1> (79.74kB/s)
<ogra> that rises and falls 
<ogra> and beta2 is already pretty old
<pips1> ah
<ogra> but it should save you 1-200MB
<pips1> I hope it's more in the region of 200MB ;-)
<pips1> (I wish I had more bandwith, but who doesn't)
<ogra> i'm fine with the 2M in my new house
<pips1> woah
<pips1> are you going to be up most of the night?
<ogra> (even i'll upgrade to SDSL 4M if i moved all my hardware)
<pips1> cool !
<ogra> nope, i wanted to actually do some RL stuff for 1-2h and get some sleep 
<pips1> RL?
<ogra> real life :)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> well, I see what I can do re testing tonight, but you might only have my feedback after mr. mdz's freeze ...
<pips1> :-/
<ogra> thats fine 
<ogra> if we find reasonable bugs, we can ask for valid updates :)
<ogra> its just a bit more discussion involved and every line get reviewed
<pips1> alright
<pips1> I wasn't able to sleep, that's when I remembered I should download a daily and then I read your plea for testing in the irc logs :-) however I'm actually quite knackered, so I might go to bed at some point. But i'll definitely put some time into testing this week :-)
<ogra> thanks a lot :)
<pips1> :)
* pips1 is off to read for a bit while the rsync does its job
<Laser_away> has anybody done a sort of "dual boot" with Windows on the thin client hard drive and then a LTSP Edubuntu server?
<bimberi> Laser_away: I have a windows98 / Edubuntu LTSP Server dualboot which I connect to from my PXE capable laptop as a thin client (it has XP/UbuntuBreezy/UbuntuDapper tri-boot on its HDD)
<bimberi> Laser_away: so the laptop tries to PXE boot first, i just hit escape and it goes into GRUB
<Laser_away> bimberi: cool, thanks
<bimberi> Laser_away: yw :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: that rsync script is a real timesaver thanks
<jsgotangco> (although i didnt read the --help and i got to download all arches lol
<bimberi> jsgotangco: Is it publicly available?
<jsgotangco> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<bimberi> jsgotangco: ah, tyvm :)
<jsgotangco> read --help first lol
<jsgotangco> or else it'll touch all arches
<bimberi> jsgotangco: lol, yes i gathered that
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> boo
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<cbx33> thanks for those screenshots
<HedgeMage> np :)
<HedgeMage> btw, how do I show a graphic in a wiki article? I have the ones to add to my install thing but can't find an example of how to do it
<cbx33> i managed to get that all done
<HedgeMage> (didn't look too hard, I'm trying to juggle a lot right now)
<cbx33> ok
<HedgeMage> cool :)
<cbx33> that's easy
<HedgeMage> good :)
<cbx33> have you attached it
<HedgeMage> (hubby got hurt at work, and I'm trying to keep things together here while keeping up on my FOSS stuff)
<cbx33> look for the dropdown next to edit up top
<cbx33> yikes he ok?
<HedgeMage> nope, I plan to use the ones from highvoltage's "getting started" page so I wasn't sure if I should just link to them since they're already up
<cbx33> you can do
<HedgeMage> It's not life-threatening or anything, but they are trying to keep him from getting medical care :(
<HedgeMage> long, messy story :(
<cbx33> yikes
<HedgeMage> (He's in the US Army so he can only see medical personnel the unit assigns)
<cbx33> you can link...  attachment:page/filename.ext
<cbx33> i think
<HedgeMage> I'll try one in a bit, I'm working on cleaning and topping off the fish tank while I IRC :)
<cbx33> heheh
<HedgeMage> I cannot begin to tell you how tired I am tonight...
* HedgeMage sighs
<HedgeMage> sorry, I don't mean to be mopey
<cbx33> it's ok
<HedgeMage> thanks :)
<cbx33> i was all mopey the other night
<HedgeMage> I really hope I get a good job soon so he can take a medical discharge if they offer it.
<cbx33> getting all depressed about my job
<HedgeMage> awww, what (is/was) wrong?
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage your ears must have been ringing :)
<cbx33> i work at a school need i say more?
<HedgeMage> I was just talking about you.
<HedgeMage> cbx33: heh, nope, especially if it's a US school
<cbx33> UK
<cbx33> they have no respect for equipment 
<HedgeMage> don't know much about your system except that it's supposedly better than ours. (what isn't?)
<cbx33> heheh, don't know if i agree with that
<cbx33> right i'm off to work
<HedgeMage> see you later :)
<HedgeMage> (and thanks for listening to me mope)
<cbx33> see you soon hedgemage
<cbx33> np, i'm always here
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: it must have?
<highvoltage> hi HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ah :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<HedgeMage> just mentioned that I was going to borrow the screenies from gettingstarted for my install chapter in the cookbook
<cbx33> hi highvoltage
<cbx33> highvoltage, just to let you know, i'm hopefully converting gettingstarted to docbook today ;p
<cbx33> bbl bye
<highvoltage> yay
<highvoltage> bye
<cbx33> hey all
<HedgeMage> wb cbx33 
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx33> ogra: still want AMD64 live tested
<Burgundavia> cbx33, ESA is all yours
<cbx33> I see the changes from Laser_away 
<cbx33> and bimberi 
<bimberi> hey cbx33
<cbx33> thanx for the changes
<bimberi> np :) - thanks for the quick response Burgundavia
<cbx33> i was sleeping :p
<bimberi> yeah yeah :P
<Burgundavia> bimberi, np. good to put a name to an irc nick
<cbx33> the name is actually really familiar to me and I don;t know why
<bimberi> cbx33: i understand the Symons' came from Cornwall - so there's probably a few still over there
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> yes but it's your full name that is familiar
<jsgotangco> cbx33: just test whatever you can
<bimberi> cbx33: must be someone else, i try to keep a low profile :)
<cbx33> heheh
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Yagisan> cbx33: jsgotangco: too busy to test ?
<jsgotangco> have been busy lately i have it installed but really didnt play
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: no issues you noticed ?
<jsgotangco> nah, it ran well on my setup
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: that's good to know :)
<jsgotangco> i just didnt get enough time at th emoment to actually push the settings and see how it fares
<cbx33> sorry Yagisan  tested 6 edubuntu installs last night
<Yagisan> cbx33: 6! don't you have a life :-P
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> hehe ogra was short of testers
<cbx33> I have some more to do today
<Yagisan> cbx33: have fun
* Yagisan is discovering how hard it is to type and hold a 9.1kg baby at the same time
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> that's very precise - 
* cbx33 wonders if Yagisan's arms diouble up as scales
<Yagisan> cbx33: he was weighed yesterday so we could work out how much antibiotics to give him
<Yagisan> cbx33: the doctor asked me to estimate his weight first
<Yagisan> I was 100 grams off
* HedgeMage cuddles Yagisan and kisses the baby
<HedgeMage> hi there
<HedgeMage> :)
<Yagisan> G'day HedgeMage. Bub didn't like that
<HedgeMage> awww, crabby munchkin?
<Yagisan> HedgeMage:  very right now
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: he's unwell
<HedgeMage> :(
<HedgeMage> what's wrong?
* HedgeMage scrolls up and sees something about antibiotics
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: he caught something and is wheezing and coughing, and being a right pain in the arse
<HedgeMage> awww
<cbx333> jsgotangco: you still around?
<HedgeMage> you two have my sympathy... sick babies are hard on both the babies and the people caring for them
* HedgeMage makes Yagisan a cup of tea
* Yagisan gulps it down in one mouthful
<HedgeMage> speaking of which... have you tried giving the baby some tea with hibiscus flowers in it?  (babies usually favor fruit or mint teas as they have a light taste)
<HedgeMage> that tends to help with painful wheezing over time
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: no. he is still only on baby formula.
<HedgeMage> most of the popular herbal tea brands have at least a flavor or two with hibiscus flowers in them
<HedgeMage> ahh okay
<HedgeMage> I thought he was a wee bit older
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: heh - many people that meet him think so too
<Yagisan> he's huge!
<HedgeMage> then again, TT was a piglet... breastmilk and/or formula didn't last long for him... he started on baby foods very early
<Yagisan> he is almost as big as his sister
<HedgeMage> it must run in the family, mom says my kid brother and I did the same thing
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> how old is his sister again? 2 IIRC?
<Yagisan> I'd like to start him on food, once he can sit up
<Yagisan> yes, she is 2
<HedgeMage> :)
* Yagisan mumbles about the joys of writing portable configure scripts
<HedgeMage> lol :)
<Yagisan> now someone wants me to make apple universal binaries from it too
<HedgeMage> the projects never end :)
<HedgeMage> I'm struggling to finish up the extra edubuntu-cookbook stuff I took on between everything else
<Yagisan> how the hell do they expect me to do that ?? I don't even have a mac! darwin doesn't seem close enough (and, well, it and openbsd tie for most crap install routine)
<HedgeMage> Tell them you'll do it when they buy you a mac? ;P
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: could be worse, no one has asked for an OS/2 port yet
<HedgeMage> rofl
* HedgeMage asks for a commadore 64 port just to be difficult
<HedgeMage> (j/k)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: sure, you port autotools first ;)
<HedgeMage> hehehe
<cbx333> HedgeMage: I could be open for proofing later
<HedgeMage> what are you writing a configure script for anyhow?
<cbx333> just converting getting started to docbook
<HedgeMage> cbx333: sweet.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: what other niche OS would be an amusing port ?
<HedgeMage> cbx333: not sure if I'll have anything new up by then, though... I'm trying to get some dishes washed and such before I go to bed... it's 1:20 am here
<HedgeMage> cbx333: thanks to hubby getting hurt I am *so* behind
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: hmmm
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: hurt ??
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: he got messed up at work, nothing life-threatening or anything
<HedgeMage> that's why I haven't been around the past few days
<HedgeMage> he had two medical problems they wouldn't let him go to the medic for, and they finally pushed it too far. :(
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: that's shit news :(
<cbx333> ping ogra 
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: yeah, I'm very angry about it, but there's really nothing we can do
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: military job IIRC ?
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: they're supposedly going to allow him to go to the troop medic tomorrow, but we don't know if they'll just put him on profile for a week again, or let him see a doctor
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: yep, US Army
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I take it he has a combat role then.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: idiots should have sent him to the medic
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: Nope, he's in communications (computer networking and repairing radios and GPS systems)
<HedgeMage> but, he's in a line unit which means he does the same workouts and drills as the combat folks
<HedgeMage> and travels with them, etc.
<HedgeMage> he's not a noncombatent
<HedgeMage> just a "support MOS"
<HedgeMage> but, he used to be airborne / air assault... that's where his knee and leg problems come from... too many hard landings
<HedgeMage> :(
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: my wife didn't want me to join the Army here. Before I started my business they had some interesting IT roles that I would have liked
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> The other branches in the US aren't awful, but there's a reason that the Army is having to hire civilian contractors to do any job that requires a brain.
<HedgeMage> They want everyone to make every physical standard and never need medical care, and they use up people and break them.
* HedgeMage sighs
<HedgeMage> sorry, unneccessary rant
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: no, that's ok. If they keep that up, they won't have much of an Army left though
<HedgeMage> they don't
<cbx333> ok, any doccers out there, I just sent a mail to the list with the getting started guide
<HedgeMage> the US is relying on our reserve army constantly, and if things get spread much thinner, they will call up inactive reserves, and then head for a draft.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: yeah, I noticed our Army reserve has been called up too
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: not enough to do what we need to do here, and in Afghanistan and Iraq.
<HedgeMage> you're in Aussieland, right?
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: yep
<HedgeMage> just checking, it gets hard to keep track sometimes :)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: that's what the 51st state now
<HedgeMage> lol
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: our PM has his head so far up Bushes arse, it's not funny
<HedgeMage> heh
<cbx333> Yagisan: yours as well
<cbx333> ?
<cbx333> :p
<Yagisan> cbx333: I'm not a pom!
<HedgeMage> don't blame me, I didn't vote for him!  either time.
<HedgeMage> :P
<HedgeMage> Though, he's one of many reasons I've lately considered getting involved in politics again.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: why did we go to Iraq ? wait I know, because Shrub had a vendetta against another nutjob, and JH though we could use that to sell wheat to the USA. What happened ? We all get screwed.
<HedgeMage> It seems all the decent people get fed up and get out like I did... and look what we're left with.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: Afghanistan, I understand why they went. I don't understand why they left after a half-arsed job, to start another war.
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: I can't comment on war-related stuff... if you care to hear my reasons feel free to PM me :)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: you know, if they ran a business like that, they'd be filing for bankruptcy
<HedgeMage> I will, however, be glad to rant about any non-war-related screw-up of our current president until they shuffle us off to -offtopic ;)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: yes. have you also noticed he acts *just like* the people he claims are religious fanatics ?
<HedgeMage> we could start with how he's raped public education, and then move on to the economic stuff, invasions of privacy, and so on and so forth...
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: A long time ago
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: when he was still govorner of Texas he tried to have my religion made a crime under military law
<HedgeMage> actually, a whole class of religions
<HedgeMage> he's constantly trying to legislate religion into education and medical laws.
<cbx333> if I have an email to send to ubuntu-doc mailing list, ad it's BIG, ie it includes images....what should I do?
<cbx333> it's bounced and said waiting for approval
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I know. the scary thing is, John Howard is coping him
<cbx333> should I cancel it and link to an upload of the file?
<HedgeMage> he's spoken out against religious freedom (in the name of religion of all things) many times.
<HedgeMage> cbx333: that might be easiest.  it's what I'd do
<cbx333> ok
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: Texas, the state that the Shrub is from, is where I was living when a preacher tried to beat me to a miscarriage for not sharing his religion, and the police outright refused to come.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: you sound like you have an interesting religion. I'm an Atheist myself, and my wife is a Buddhist.
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: just to give you an idea of what he thinks is "normal"
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: WTF!!
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: I'm FT pagan (that is a generic term meaning I follow a path handed down in my family, that doesn't really exist elsewhere)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: someone knock the shit out of the preacher ?
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: a kind neighbor ran him off with a shotgun
<HedgeMage> only reason TT lived to be born
<HedgeMage> mind you, this was a *christian* preacher, you know, the religion that thinks abortion is a mortal sin... I can't help but goggle at the irony
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: IIRC doesn't "pagan" basically mean not a christian
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I'd have shot him myself
<HedgeMage> "pagan" means not an abrahamic religion... basically anything other than Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Satanism is pagan
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: woot. so I'm a pagan too ;)
<HedgeMage> :)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I've pretended to be a Satanist a few times. I got sick of Jehovah's witnesses knocking on my door
<HedgeMage> ROFL I've done it too
<HedgeMage> what's funny is that I have a friend who's a Satanist (one of the non-scary branches) so I know just enough to fake it really really convincingly
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I'd see them coming and answer the door bare-chested with a pentagram in red food colouring on my chest,
<HedgeMage> ROFL
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I just went for theatrics
<HedgeMage> that's hilarious
<HedgeMage> :D
<jsgotangco> cbx333: sorry i was just in a meeeting
<cbx333> jsgotangco: np
<cbx333> just emailed the list
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: my wife says I should have been an actor, because I can do stuff like that so deadpan serious
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: When I was in college, I was really mean... I'd offer to listen to them discuss their religion for as many minutes as they'd listen to me discuss mine... I actually created a couple of doubters :D
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I'd like it when the morons would come
<HedgeMage> Hubby's way nicer than I am... he listens to them, waits for them to leave, and throws away whatever tripe they gave him to read
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: they actually speak rather well. We'd talk about anything except their religion.
<HedgeMage> I have no problem with sane, respectful people of any religion... it's the ones who want to convert the world (by lethal force if needed) that peeve me off
* cbx333 sighs
<cbx333> in relief
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I agree.
<HedgeMage> cbx333: uploaded, linked, and sent?
<cbx333> I though HedgeMage was going to come knocking on my door then
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx333> HedgeMage: yes
<cbx333> I can totally understand where you're coming from, and agree that there are some scarily "bad" chrisitans out there
<cbx333> who totally don't get the point across or have any compassion for peole of different faiths
<Yagisan> cbx333: I see them in all religions
<cbx333> Yagisan: what bad chrisitan hindus?
<HedgeMage> cbx333: my mom is Christian (Roman Catholic, to be specific)... so is most of my extended family.  I never understood the enmity my fellow pagans had for Christianity until I lived in Texas.  (note, among other things, the attempted murder of my unborn child by a Christian preacher mentioned above)
* cbx333 is a catholic, but I don't go around forcing my beliefs on people
* HedgeMage nods
<cbx333> I just try and be nice to people, if they want to ask about my faith I have no problem talking about it
<HedgeMage> cbx333: the problem is, IMHO, that in any religion with enough members to get noticed, the psycho extremests are the loudest, and thus the ones outsiders tend to notice the most.
<Yagisan> cbx333: intolerance of others religions. I live in a very Muslim area. So many of them are pissed off if I kiss my wife in public
<HedgeMage> ouch.
<cbx333> yikes
<cbx333> well...
* cbx333 has no problem with y'all, my edubuntu homies :p
<HedgeMage> :)
* HedgeMage starts a group hug
* cbx333 gives Yagisan and HedgeMage a big hug
<mdeboer> did i just join edubuntu or relibuntu? ;-)
<HedgeMage> LOL
<Yagisan> I tell them if they don't like it to go back to Lebanon.
<cbx333> mdeboer: hehe
<Yagisan> mdeboer: welcome to religious education
<cbx333> Yagisan: ah, diplomatic as a always :p
<HedgeMage> mdeboer: have you ever known us to stay on-topic long without JaneW and highvoltage here brandishing bullwhips?
<Yagisan> cbx333: fuck that. damm boat people :-P
<mdeboer> :-)
<cbx333> hehe
* HedgeMage notes that she just highlighted the brandishers of bullwhips and runs for the hills
<HedgeMage> ;)
<Yagisan> cbx333: they should have to que up and wait 12 months for a visa like my wife did
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: it's safe to come back now. They don't seem to be here
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> brb
<Yagisan> speaking of religious nutjobs, anyone recall the last religious war started in the name of Buddhism ?
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: you can always quote the Qoran at them: it's the only of the abrahamic religious texts, AFAIK, that specifically teaches tolerance: "If a man is a Jew, then insist he be a good Jew, if a man is a Christian, then hold him to be a good Christian, if a man is a Muslim, then hold him to the law of Mohammad."  (badly paraphrased as I am sleepy)
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: when was the last one in the name of unheard-of family religions?
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> inevitably, of course, it's when religion and politics mix (regardless of the religion) that people start getting killed.
<HedgeMage> politics and religion are awful bedfellows.
<HedgeMage> especially if you value breathing :P
<mdeboer> I wrote a puzzle game, http://www.resorama.com/glpuzzle/ , and i think it could very well be included with edubuntu. It features 12 puzzles of various images, but it might be a nice idea to make a special "edubuntu edition", with edubuntu artwork.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: ah, but Buddhism isn't a minor religion. Which was my point.
<HedgeMage> mdeboer: I'd love to take a peek, looking now :)
<cbx333> mdeboer: oooh I like it
<cbx333> speak to ogra 
<mdeboer> ogra. ok.
<Yagisan> mdeboer: we are 2 weeks approx out from release
<cbx333> it'll be net release now
<cbx333> next 
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: true, but then you have to subject yourself to bickering over whther Buddhism is a religion :P
<cbx333> but still put it on his list
<mdeboer> yes, i am talking about a future release.
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: IIRC the Quran permits men to rape any woman, not of their religion. I don't see how that is tolerance
<mdeboer> maybe the first step should be to get it debianized, and included in debian and ubuntu.
<Yagisan> mdeboer: that would help
<HedgeMage> mdeboer: looks very cute. :)  needs packages, though, I'm too lazy to compile anything else tonight
<HedgeMage> I'm still boggling at what my gentoo box is compiling right now
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: I never said it *consistently* preached tolerance, but what major religious text is consistent with itself? 
<mdeboer> maybe some package maintainer offers himself spontaneously (hint hint)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> I have too much on my plate ATM, sorry :(
<Yagisan> mdeboer: maintainers live in -motu
<mdeboer> ok thanks
<Yagisan> mdeboer: but most of us are up to our eyeballs in work ATM
* HedgeMage is buried 5.5 feet deep :P
<mdeboer> guess i should come back once dapper is out...
<cbx333> mdeboer: you are likely to get a better response
<mdeboer> ok. thanks
<cbx333> but I would love to see that kind of thing in edubuntu
<cbx333> unfortunately I just (semi) work here
<cbx333> you'll have to talk to the big guns
<cbx333> anyone on ubuntu doc mailing list here?
* HedgeMage seconds cbx333's statements
<HedgeMage> nope
<cbx333> mdeboer: I'll take a look at it and ofer suggestions if you like?
<HedgeMage> I probably should be... I'm just overwhelmed by the volume of email I get right now
<Yagisan> quick poll - hands up all those uncomfortable right now
<cbx333> HedgeMage: tell me about it
* cbx333 puts up his hand
<cbx333> though I'm glad to get ESA finished
<mdeboer> cbx333: thanks. mail me if you like.
<cbx333> now I just need to port it to scribus
<cbx333> mdeboer: of course
<cbx333> if i don;t within the next few days
<cbx333> mail me
<cbx333> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<cbx333> and it'll be a good reminder
<Yagisan> cbx333: then shift a bit in your seat then :)
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: be nice :P
<cbx333> though Yagisan did mail me about testing something.... - 
* cbx333 looks sheepish
<cbx333> I'm gonna need some help with that one Yagisan 
<Yagisan> cbx333: I'm sorry. could not resist
* cbx333 is not intelligent enough
<Yagisan> cbx333: eh ? my instruction are that bad
<Yagisan> :(
<cbx333> no
<cbx333> seeing as no one else had trouble
<cbx333> I'll probably be able to try it tomorrow
* cbx333 thinks about what ubuntu stuff he has left to do.....I'm on the right track :D
<Yagisan> cbx333: try to ignore all the Satanist imagery in the game, such as hellspawn, demons etc
* cbx333 w00ts with laughter
<cbx333> if that makes me a bad catholic then......oh dear
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx333> let me put it this way, I've beenplaying those games since doom, I listen to punk and heavy metal(occasionally), 
<cbx333> I must be in a baaaddddd way
<HedgeMage> :)
* cbx333 couldn't function without a good old dose of punk in my day
<Yagisan> cbx333: ah, the game I asked you to test, IS doom!
<cbx333> I know :p
<cbx333> brb
<cbx33> I'm back
<blue-frog> sry to bother if i download edubuntu dapper now can I just rsync when the final release is out? if I will need to change the iso filename, correct?
<cbx33> blue-frog: not sure
<cbx33> check with ogra 
<blue-frog> ok
<ogra> blue-frog, yep, but beware todays CDs (ubuntu and edubuntu at least) are nearly all broken
<blue-frog> ok will wait then
<cbx33> ogra: oh?
<cbx33> I just downloaded AMD64 live is that one ok?
<cbx33> ogra: btw in case you didn't see, I've competed getting started
<cbx33> and emailed the ML, just waiting for it to be included
<ogra> cbx33, you can look yourself :) 
<cbx33> oooooooh :p
<cbx33> howz the sleeping ogra ?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html shows which packages from -desktop are not instaable
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/ will show which liveCDs are oversized
<dave-YL> hi
<cbx33> boo
<ogra> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/ has the exact logs for thhe build process, if you search for "CD 2 will only", you can see how much the CDs are actually oversized
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 is just putting a blowtorch to the AMD64 disc :p
<jsgotangco> you can just rsync it
<cbx33> jsgotangco: has that come through on the mailing list
<jsgotangco> ?
<cbx33> the getting started doc?
<jsgotangco> yes but i dont have my tree with me
<cbx33> ok np :p
<cbx33> just making sure cos it didn't come through here
* jsgotangco is with a client doing some crazy bluetooth hacking
<cbx33> heheh
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx33> do not give david any information about bypassing proxies
<dave-YL> come on
<cbx33> he's trying to be cheeky :p
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> i keep telling him....you're on work experience you're not gonna get all the answers
<dave-YL> i will get you cbx33
<cbx33> yeh yeh
* dave-YL david slaps cbx33
<pips1> ogra, you here? I got a imac live cd test report for you...
<ogra> yeah
<pips1> boot fails :-(
<ogra> :(
<pips1> should I send you the details by email, or should I just paste it here?
<ogra> i'll try one today ... (didnt test ppc at all yet, since its my main working machine)
<ogra> if its small, paste hhere 
<pips1> basically, the last error is ERROR: The file 'dev/pmu' doesn't exist. 
<pips1>     [fail] 
* ogra kicks his "h" key
<ogra> looks like udev
<ogra> thats a ppc imac ? not the intel version ?
<cbx33> ogra: can't boot AMD64, my vm doesn't this processor
<pips1> i had to use the 'live video=ofonly' option, otherwise no go at all
<ogra> pips1, how much mem does it have ? 
<pips1> ogra, it's a ppc imac, not intel. iMac G5 (3.1), 20 inch, ATI Radeon X600 XT (1680x105), Mighty Mouse, Boot Rom 5.2.6f1
<jsgotangco> cbx33: strange, amd64 worked for me just now
<pips1> it has 500 MB
<ogra> (liveCD needs at least 256M)
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> jsgotangco: my proc is too old
<ogra> oh, a G5
<ogra> amd64 was fine for me too yesterday
<pips1> yeah, one of the last of its kind, I just bought it very recently
<ogra> todays might not work, there was a glitch whhere glib was still building while the CD builds ran
<ogra> pips1, can you report that on #ubuntu-kernel ? might be cpu related
<pips1> ah
<ogra> i know there were probs with G5's in the past
<pips1> I got some errors related to hard disk and mouse (?) too, though
<pips1> e.g.
<pips1> [  73.411571]  Buffer I/O error on device hda, logical block 168198
<pips1> and 
<pips1> firmware_helper[4573] : main: error loading '/lib/firmware/bcm43xx_microcode5.fw' for device '/class/firmware/0001:01:01.0' with driver 'bcm43xx'
<pips1> [  171.941794]  bcm43xx: Error: Microcode "bcm43xx_microcode" not available or load failed.
<ogra> thats normal (the last one)
<pips1> ah
<ogra> we cant ship broadcom firmware 
<pips1> ic
<ogra> (you need to copy your mac firmware from osX to /lib/firmware/kernelversion to make thhat work)
<pips1> aha
<ogra> the hda error is a bit worrying
<pips1> is that the main board firmware?
<pips1> my question is: what is the broadcom firmware that i need to copy over?
<ogra> bcm43xx_microcode5.fw
<ogra> is what the error says
<pips1> ah, .fw = firmware, makes sense :-)
<pips1> but you don't happen to know what that firmware would be for, by chance? :-)
<ogra> your airport extreme card
<pips1> ah, right :-)
<ogra> you should have a driver on te OS X cd that also contains the firmware
<ogra> google for fwcutter and broadcom, should give you a bunch of howtos
<pips1> thanks
<pips1> so.. should I paste that error about 'dev/pmu' on #ubuntu-kernel?
<ogra> ask them if there are known probs with G5's
<ogra> and if so, if thats one of the symptoms
<pips1> oki
<pips1> no reply...
<pips1> ok, I'll test a amd64 install cd now (ltsp server setup)
<HedgeMage> Okay folks, really going to bed this time
<HedgeMage> see you all tomorrow
<pips1> but first, I'll try to apt-get upgrade that machine, to see if that will give me a working system.
* HedgeMage waves
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html hah, now it looks better 
<ogra> all: please rsync to the latest isos if you have pulled tonights 
<pips1> ok
<pips1> (I just burned that installer amd64 cd though...)
<ogra> should be only 1-2M download with rsync
<jsgotangco> its installing at the moment on my side
<ogra> tonights ? 
<ogra> that wont install
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop wont be installabe
<jsgotangco> hmmm its now in gcompris-data
<ogra> glib is missing a recent version which gimp depends on ... so it will fail with gimp and pull down edubuntu-desktop accordingly
<jsgotangco> let's see i dunno what i rsync'ed hehe
<jsgotangco> i just followed your script
<jsgotangco> ;)
<ogra> depends *when* then :)
<pips1> oh, thanks for the heads up :-) i'll re-run your script then
<ogra> you either got yesterdays build (if you were early enough) or the broken one of this morning
<pips1> I started my rsync about 2am
<ogra> that gave you this mornings builds
<pips1> ah
<ogra> Generated: Mon May 22 23:52:41 UTC 2006
<ogra> that was the broken one
<ogra> Generated: Tue May 23 10:21:55 UTC 2006
<ogra> is the fixed one
<pips1> when booting that powerpc live cd, it said 20060522
<ogra> live is something different 
<pips1> right...
<ogra> they are built in two steps (first the livefs then the iso)
<pips1> so the live cd I tested should be ok..?
<pips1> oh well, I can always just run that rsync, can't I? :-)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<pips1> jsgotangco, what time zone are you in?
<jsgotangco> +8 UTC
<pips1> ah, evening...
<blue-frog> sry folks, to rsync it's just rsync://site.com/image.iso  when I am in my localfolder containing image.iso, correct?
<ogra> pips1, yes, that liveCD should be ok
<pips1> blue-frog, dunno, sorry, I use ogra's 'rsyncer' shell script
<ogra> blue-frog, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<blue-frog> ty
<ogra> copy it to a folder, make it executable and run ./rsyncer.sh --create
<blue-frog> ok
<ogra> if you have any isos already, copy them over the ones in the edubuntu dir
<ogra> and try the --help option to restrict what you want (by default it pulls all flavors and all arches)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i learned that a few hours after i downloaded everything
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> heheh
<blue-frog> otherwise my command was correct from what I see in your script ogra?
<ogra> jsgotangco, cool, now just get the missing HW ;)
<ogra> blue-frog, i usdually use -az --progress
<jsgotangco> ogra: i might get access to some java think clients would they be useful?
<ogra> but else it was fine, yes
<jsgotangco> (pretty old ones i might add)
<ogra> jsgotangco, if they can PXE boot :)
<blue-frog> ok ty
<jsgotangco> they can for sure
<jsgotangco> ok there's an rsync update available now
<ogra> yep ...
* jsgotangco erases the cdrw
<ogra> i'm still poking on i386 live ...
<ogra> no idea why its oversized ...
<Yagisan> ogra: just attach an oversized load sticker, and it'll be right
<ogra> haha
<ogra> i should also put a "THIS WONT BOOT" sticker on it as well :)
<jsgotangco> pfftt rsync is slow
<cbx33> ogra: just tried the rsync script here
<cbx33> ./rsyncer.sh --dist edubuntu --arch i386
<cbx33> and at first I got a warning about edubuntu dir not being present
<cbx33> i created it and now when I run the script it does nothi......oh hang on
<jsgotangco> create an edubuntu folder and place your current iso there
<cbx33> a ok
<ogra> cbx33, you did run it like i described ? 
<cbx33> i don;t have an iso on this computer
<cbx33> yet
<jsgotangco> if it doesnt see anything, it'll touch then download
<cbx33> ah ok
<ogra> (i.e. first --create, thne the opther commands? )
<cbx33> :p thankx ogra
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> it's working :p
<cbx33> if the AMD64 was not oversized I could test it
<ogra> it isnt
<cbx33> hmm...itwas here
<ogra> all install CDs are fine now
<cbx33> since when
<ogra> and only i386 live is oversized
<ogra> since i rebuilt them 
<ogra> ~30 min ago, when i said
<ogra> <ogra> all: please rsync to the latest isos if you have pulled tonights 
<cbx33> argh ok
<cbx33> sorry ogra trying to juggle everything here :p
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> how can i specify 2 archs
<ogra> sorry, not implemented yet 
<cbx33> grr :p
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> i have been looking at the script with great interest :)
<Yagisan> cbx33: which two ?
<jsgotangco> burning amd64 now
<ogra> jsgotangco, patches accepted :)
<Yagisan> cbx33: you can do an amd64 server + i386 clients
<Yagisan> cbx33: but you need to set iy up manually
<cbx33> I had one from this morning.....grr... jsgotangco  live cd?
* jsgotangco doesn't test livecd
<ogra> Yagisan, he's talking about the rsyncer script
<cbx33> oooh....nice
<cbx33> I'll test the live cd 64 :p
<jsgotangco> i dunno i just have no interest on livecds
<Yagisan> ahh, my mistake then
<Yagisan> 9 degrees C here and dropping
<ogra> dapper-install-i386.iso
<ogra>    728664064 100%    1.48MB/s    0:07:50  (1, 100.0% of 1)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> 7 mins is not bad :)
<jsgotangco> you make me look bad
<jsgotangco> heh
<pips1> dapper-install-amd64.iso
<pips1>    720797696 100%    1.06MB/s    0:10:50  (1, 100.0% of 1)
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> :)
<blue-frog> am gonna test on a sony vaio portable, anything you need to test in particular?
<blue-frog> on such a pc?
<jsgotangco> blue-frog: laptop-testing would be more appropriate though (but try edubuntu workstation)
<blue-frog> that's what i meant , i have a laptop
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<jsgotangco> blue-frog: edubuntu workstation has the laptop tools as well
<ogra> the default install as well
<ogra> in fact *all* edubuntu installs have the laptop tools ;)
<jsgotangco> i wouldnt want ltsp on my laptop lol
<jsgotangco> oohh netinstall hardcore
<ogra> thats how i test it
<ogra> running my amd64 laptop as server and have a thin client attached via crossover
* jsgotangco wished he had an amd64 laptop
<blue-frog> ok if i understand your phrasing there must be a graphical choice at boot (i ahve been away from my puter a few months...)
<ogra> blue-frog, just hitting enter gives you the default classroom server install
<blue-frog> ok as usual then
<ogra> selecting "workstation" at the CD bootscreen will give your, well, the workstation install
<ogra> if you ise the liveCD installer, you'll also get a workstation install
<ogra> s/ise/use/
<ogra> there is no need to test the "server" install (it will be dropped during this week)
<blue-frog> no problem, i generally make myserver from normal install anyway..
<jsgotangco> amd64 autoresize check
<ogra> yay
<cbx33> ogra: hmm.....rsync doesn't seem to be working
<cbx33> it's running
<cbx33> but all files are showing zero size
<ogra> cbx33, works fine here
<cbx33> nothing seems to be happening
<cbx33> if I export a proxy address it'll use it right?
<ogra> hmm, i didnt use a proxy since years 
<ogra> no idea 
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> (apart from willow testing)
<cbx33> rsync: failed to connect to cdimage.ubuntu.com: Connection timed out (110)rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(98)
<jsgotangco> that's i386
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> dapper-install-powerpc.iso
<cbx33> oh stupid boy....it uses a different port doesn't it
<ogra>    726491136 100%  750.45kB/s    0:15:45  (1, 100.0% of 1)
<ogra> 110 ?
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> thats pop3, no ?
<cbx33> that's blocked here
<ogra> rsync uses 873
<cbx33> still blocked
<jsgotangco> amd workstation install looks good :)
<cbx33> I only have port 80,443 and resricted 21 here
<ogra> yay
* cbx33 downloads the 64 live
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> ogra: i get a Buffer I/O error on a disk...
<ogra> which one ? 
<jsgotangco> its retriveing packages....
* jsgotangco tries it again
<pips1> ogra, I saw you mentioned that the 'server' install option will get dropped. That makes me wondering: What happed to the "Ubuntu Server" plans (not Edubuntu)? Was that idea dropped?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu Server is still alive
<ogra> its there since breezy
<jsgotangco> it has its own installer
<pips1> ic
<pips1> is there a main "Ubuntu Server" page on ubuntu.com or in the wiki?
<jsgotangco> none at the moment, very few people test it actually
<jsgotangco> i think im the only one who tested flight 7 before heh
<pips1> (I'm planning on buying some server hardware and info about hardware-tests/recommendations would be very nice)
<pips1> oh, I see
<pips1> wow
<jsgotangco> if only i had hardware for big-iron heh
* jsgotangco writes uncle ogra for one this summer
<ogra> haha
<ogra> jsgotangco, flint has good connections to some IBM dealers ;)
<jsgotangco> heh he asked me before to write him an email but he didnt reply back
<ogra> pips1, 
<ogra> <ogra> fabbione, are there any known probs with mac mini G5 machines ? i have a report about a failed edubuntu install
<ogra> <fabbione> ogra: give me one and i will test it :)
<ogra> <fabbione> ogra: also. please ask these people to file bugs on lp
<ogra> <fabbione> with all the proper info
<jsgotangco> ogra: it really gets stuck in package 501 then i get a kernel  Buffer I/O error on hdb line
<ogra> thats very likely broken media or a too fast burn
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> i will just try it again later
* jsgotangco goes for dinner
<ogra> you can to a integrity check
<ogra> s/to/do/
<jsgotangco> yeah i'll do that first just to make sure
<ogra> 8wile at dinner ;) )
<ogra> *while
<pips1> ogra, ok, I'll file a bug report for the failed edubuntu live on mac G5... what package should i file against? and what was the correct category to assign to (edubuntu-testing-team or what?)
<ogra> dev/pmu should be created by udev
<ogra> so udev is a good start
<jsgotangco> ogra: bad burn, my bad
* jsgotangco out
<pips1> ogra, k
<ogra> jsgotangco, yep, my amd64 test is just at file 722
<jsgotangco> ok ciao
<pips1> cu
<mhz> hi guys
<mhz> ogra: so far, 2 installs, (1 server, 1 <enter>) okidoki.
<ogra> cool
<mhz> Unvelievably, my friends ISP did not provide any service until 21 PM :(
<ogra> as i said, no need to test "server", we'll drop it
<mhz> duh
<ogra> test workstation and default rather
<mhz> "we'll drop it" as in Edubuntu? or the whole Ubuntu?
<mhz> okis
<mhz> Today I'll test it in 2 diff machines
<mhz> diff = diff hardware of course
<ogra> in edubuntu
<mhz> roger that, captain.
<ogra> ubuntu will keep it, and we'll liekly get it back in edgy, its just that there is a problem just renaming it
<mhz> good to know
<ogra> so we'll drop it to avoid confusion
<ogra> (and re-add it based on user complaints :) )
<mhz> I was asked if Edubuntu default comes with a "firewall" default. "I don't know, but we can always use IpTables" I said. Do we have such default thing?
<mhz> lol
<mhz> well, community speaks ;)
<ogra> sudo apt-get install firestarter ;)
<mhz> heheheh
<ogra> (from universe)
<mhz> yeah
* pips1 now always burns isos with 4x speed to avoid currupted install media
<pips1> :-/
<mhz> pips1: yeah! me too
<ogra> pips1, 8x should work
<mhz> or 8x
<pips1> ok, will try 8x for the next one
<pips1> brb (need to disable dhcp on dsl modem to test server setup)
<mhz> Oh, one personal feeling is that I felt the booting process is faster than my Dapper Beta (in laptop). Is that logical?
<ogra> could be
<mhz> oh, one last thing befeore I hit the shower, The User & Groups "application" is meant for teachers/admins to define groups and special privileges? Is that just like using 'adduser' or alike?
<mhz> or it has a more "school oriented" purpose?
<ogra> nope, its all adduser
<mhz> ah, okis.
<ogra> we'll likely add an ldap backend and other nifty stuff over time
<mhz> hmm, iirc I read Corey (maybe not) mentioned something about 2 apps: Sabayon and Pessulus. Is that right? I can't find them
<ogra> universe
<highvoltage> hey everyone
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry to bother at this time, is it likely that we'll have a edubuntu-users list by launch-time?
<ogra> no idea, wasnt that in JaneW's and your todo ?
<JaneW> hi ogra
<highvoltage> talk of the devil :)
<JaneW> I mailed jdub 2 (maybe 3) times
<highvoltage> JaneW: i think you talked to someone about the -users mailing list?
<mhz> highvoltage: hi mon
<JaneW> I'll resend
<ogra> JaneW, i'll take that over then 
<cbx33> ogra: AMD64 live works
<cbx33> I'm using it now
<ogra> great, i have only tested amd64 install yet
<ogra> (which works fine here as well :) )
<cbx33> anything in particular you want me to test
<cbx33> firefox and oo work
<mhz> cbx33: cool!
<ogra> gcompris probably
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> or some other edu app
<mhz> oh yeah, FF and OOO 100% ok
<mhz> Gcompris worked just fine
<ogra> also check http://localhost:7080/ 
<ogra> (on a default install, not on the liveCD)
<JaneW> ogra: you and highvoltage have been CC'ed
<mhz> except i intentionally pushed it by making lots of clicking and got stuck, but could not reproduce the error later.
* mhz will try later, though
<ogra> JaneW, thanks
<JaneW> ogra: we'll need someone else to administer those lists, filtering spam etc, you shouldn't do it
<JaneW> any volunteers?
<JaneW> ^^
<mhz> ME!!
<JaneW> ogra: and do you not want tomorrow's meeting?
<JaneW> mhz: sure!
<mhz> JaneW: thx
* mhz is the least he can do after being absent for soooo long
<ogra> JaneW, yes, lets drop tomorrows meeting
<mhz> no meeting tomorrow???
<mhz> booooh
<JaneW> ogra: ok, but we'll need to resolve all outstanding issues next week
<JaneW> which is day before release!
<ogra> then hold the meeting tomorrow, but dont expect me to be available :)
* mhz could finally let other people know... "I will be in Edubuntu Meeting, so don't count on me during that period of time"
<pygi> hey JaneW 
<mhz> ;)
<cbx33> no meeting tormowow :'(
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33, any progress with book?
<ogra> cbx33, depends on JaneW 
<cbx33> not as yet, but finished up ESA and converte highvoltages getting started guide to ocbook
<ogra> i'll be busy 
<cbx33> heh it's ok,
* cbx33 just loves eubuntu meetings
<bimberi> ogra: fyi i've subscribed the BugSquad to some packages - https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs - looks like someone else has too :)
<JaneW> I think we should meet informally - here at 12:00, but certainly not at 20:00 please
<cbx33> JaneW: sounds goo
<JaneW> we can discuss community and outstanding issues then
<JaneW> agreed?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> cool
<mhz> yup
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes
<JaneW> ogra: you can then get on with your work and not have to book out and hour for 'meeting'
<ogra> i might be partially there, depending on workload
<cbx33> :D
* mhz is finally making it to an edubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> heheh
<mhz> I'll bring cookies
<highvoltage> so it's here 12:00 tomorrow? i'll be here 50%, will be irc'ing from cellphone, but will be reading at full speed at least :)
<mhz> lol
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<ogra> bimberi, great :)
<cbx33> idn't get a chance to say good mornin yet :p
* bimberi removes that agenda item
<mhz> highvoltage: i can lend you my Jornada 728, it should be lot easier to irc
<bimberi> ogra: np :)
* cbx33 wishes he could IRc from a phone
<pygi> JaneW, I see Daniel also got mentoring :)
<cbx33> ogra: o you need ubiquity tested on AMDddddddd64?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> ok I'll see what I can do....don;t think there's enough space on this hdd
<mhz> cbx33: what is ubiquity?
<cbx33> the live installer
<mhz> google!
<mhz> oh, thx
<cbx33> you're welcome to test it 
<cbx33> if you have AMD 46 :p
<cbx33> and free disk space
<mhz> yup, I guess i do, in the lab I am today
<ogra> its also valuable to test it on non amd64 platforms :P
<cbx33> ok
<mhz> cbx33: just apt-get and it works or needs some hours of config?
<ogra> but you need at least 256M to make it work
<cbx33> I can o that this evening,
<cbx33> mhz: if you have the liveCD
<cbx33> for AMDD64
<cbx33> ouble click on the install icon on the desktop
* cbx33 will be back soon.....going back to normal desktop
<mhz> ogra: LAB is either 1.x GHz (AMD and Intel) and minimum of 512 MB of RAM and 40 GB of HD
<JaneW> mhz: hope they'll be edubuntu cookies
<mhz> JaneW: oh, no time for it, but they have a nice windows icon :D
<mhz> we can still eat it
<JaneW> mhz: did you get my PM?
<pips1> hello JaneW 
<JaneW> hi pips1 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> mhz: that woudl be nice, thanks
<pips1> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi pips1
<pips1> finally got some time to spend on edubuntu again :-)
<mhz> JaneW: yup, you did not because I was not registered (duh!)
<mhz> JaneW: i am already in, thanx
<pips1> highvoltage, you seem busy as always, if not busier ;-)
<JaneW> mhz: ok good
<mhz> highvoltage: what? the HP J728?
<mhz> JaneW: and just accept it... you made that password up :D
<highvoltage> mhz: yes
<JaneW> mhx: there's loads of spam everyday, I used to scan through for the very odd legit one now I just discard all
<JaneW> mhz: never!
<mhz> hehehhe
<pips1> congrats to the edubuntu council elections, btw!
<JaneW> mhz: I think it was jdub
<cbx33> ok that's another one tested
<mhz> JaneW: yup, probabley he did... Oh, maybe that's why he "hides" and respond to emails once in a blue moon :D
* mhz knows he is VERY busy
<JaneW> btw jdub is doing the new mailing list now
<mhz> see? he's always doing something for the world
<JaneW> ogra: jdub has made the list, you will need to finish setting it up
<ogra> JaneW, we're PMing
<JaneW> ogra: and I suggest you add some more admins, I think it's just you atm
<JaneW> ogra: ok cool
<ogra> JaneW, yep
* mhz wonders if it is too much to place an edubuntu sticker on his skates ;)
<cbx33> mhz: the edubuntu homies have edubuntu on their skateboards
<cbx33> hehe
<mhz> oh, this is roller skates 
<mhz> "Edubuntu = with you, all the way"
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra: is there anything else you need help with?
<mhz> "...even when you stumble and get your face hiting the sidewalk"
<cbx33> mhz: I know that feeling
<mhz> yeah
* cbx33 was a mad blader in his time
<ogra> cbx33, nnot beyond testing atm, no
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry I'm not much help in other areas yet
<cbx33> I'll try harder 
<ogra> :)
<mhz> oh, well, ogra, is it helpful if I also test on this thin-laptop?
<ogra> youre doing damned well, really
<cbx33> gimme an area to help in and I'll learn more 
<cbx33> ogra: well I hope I'm at least partially useful :p
<ogra> mhz, sure, but i wouldnt suggest a liveCD install ;)
<mhz> LOL
<ogra> cbx33, you are !!!
<cbx33> brb guys
<mhz> okis, at night then... when I have 2 hours for the install process
<cbx33> gottqa fix an RJ45 outlet
<mhz_Shower> okis, guys, See ya later (from the LAB)
<cbx33> phew back
<ogra> all testers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers
<ogra> if you stumble across the term "dapper drake" anywhere, please let me know so i can remove it
<ogra> (most things will be covered by ubuntu fixes alrerady, but there might be some occurences we're not aware)
<cbx33> ogra: does that mean ESA will have to be patched too?
<ogra> only stuff on the cD for now
<ogra> but ESA would indeed also be a candidate
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> as indeed would gettingstarted?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> did you see I have moved that to docbook
<cbx33> :D
<highvoltage> cbx33: indeed
<ogra> no, i didnt
<cbx33> yup just like you requested :p
<ogra> did you take the recent one from edubuntu-docs with the fixes and new screenshots ? 
<cbx33> i patched the makefile too, just waiting for it to be included in the repo
<cbx33> ogra: but of course mon ami :p
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> will be putting ESA on the drupal site too when I get a spare minute
<cbx33> but not calling it ESA obviously
<cbx33> I also have to mock that up in scribus and get some tests printed off
<cbx33> which is why I was asking you if there was anything more urgent to do first 
<pips1> install cd for amd64 <default> (resize partition) went ok :-)
<ogra> yay
<cbx33> nice one pips1 
<cbx33> have you filled in the wiki?
<cbx33> ogra: did you want me to try server install again tonight with the LTSP build not building?
<pips1> minor issue: the gnome login is in the wrong resolution (not my 1280x1024, looks more like 800x400?)
<ogra> cbx33, as i said, we dont need to test the "server" install
<pips1> cbx33, what's the wiki page, link?
<ogra> oh, you mean the expert one 
<ogra> pips1, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<ogra> cbx33, as i said, we dont need to test the "server" install
<cbx33> ok thanx
<pips1> erm, gnome login display looks like 800x600
<pips1> ?!
<cbx33> is 800x600 still the lwest res we support
* cbx33 wishes someone would patch gaim so that the msn options didn't spill over the bottom
<ogra> iirc it should default to 1024x786
<ogra> not to 800x600
<cbx33> ok
<pips1> well, It might be 1024x786, not sure, but it's definitely not the 1280x1024 I chose before install (gnome desktop *is* 1280x...)
<ogra> thats funny
<pips1> it looks all pixelated
<pips1> same after rebooting
<pips1> lemme try a thinclient now and see what the resolution of gnome login screen is there...
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> thats unrelated
<ogra> the X config is generated newly on every boot on the clients and the login manager isnt gdm
<pips1> ah, i see. but I'll test with thin clients anyway... :-)
<ogra> :)
<pips1> my laptops pxe doesn't get an ip... how can I see on the server if dhcp is running?
<ogra> ps ax|grep dhsp
<ogra> err
<ogra> dhcp
<pips1> oh, no, keymap wasn't set right :-(
<pips1> my keyboard is swiss-german. what key is the pipe symbol on us layout?
<pips1> ach, I might try to change keymap under System>...
<pips1> ok, at least that worked
<pips1> these keymap problems plague me since breezy... I thought they fixed it 
<pips1> ah, no dhcp running
* pips1 wonders why
<ogra> did you configure it ? 
<ogra> it wont "just start" if there is no matching IP
* cbx33 is glad of that
<cbx33> I already have a dhcp server
<pips1> erm, where do I need to configure it? (wasn't asked during install)
<pips1> i turned off dhcp server on my dsl router, because I thought that's what I need to do, since I thought edbuntu runs a dhcp by default. was that changed?
<ogra> pips1, see the InstallNotes
<pips1> ok
<ogra> you need to have at least one matching static interface, else the dhcp server wont start
<pips1> oops, I chose ip 192.168.1.2, so that's probably why dhcp didn't start then 
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'll fix that in edgy
<pips1> :)
<pips1> didn't you have sound on thin clients working at some point?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> you need to enable it
<pips1> ah
<ogra> and indeed the soundcard needs to be supported
<pips1> ogra is there a wiki page that describes the step to get amd64 server working with i386 client?
<ogra> i mailed a reciepe to the ML recently
* pips1 goes and looks
* pips1 is weeding through the mails
* pips1 found it
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i guess that should go on the wiki at some point
<pips1> yep
* pips1 searches lp for that keymap problem and wonders why that resurfaced
<v2> ick
<ogra> ?
<v2> :)
<ogra> :)
<melon> :)
* pips1 found out that the keymap bug was closed pre-maturely (#19159)
<pips1> ogra, usplash (?) and login screen on thin client shows 'ubuntu' rather 'edubuntu' --> known issue?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> err, no
<ogra> on the login it should be edubuntu
<ogra> usplash wont change
<pips1> nope
<ogra> ok, i'll check that
<ogra> thanks !!
<pips1> do you think I might be related to me rebuilding i386 on amd64?
<pips1> erm, also I can't seem to logon on a thin client as a new user (login as initial user works, though)
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork will fix it
<pips1> ok, I'll try that
<pips1> ok, it did fix it, indeed
<pips1> however, not being able to login with a new user account on thin client is kind of a show stopper.. :-O
<pips1> huh? the test users are gone after reboot?!
<pips1> ls
<pips1> oops, wrong keyboard :-)
<pips1> ogra ? 
<pips1> the screen simply refreshes and I get dumped back to the login screen...
* pips1 is rather puzzled
<ogra> you changed the ip ?
<ogra> (when you made your dhcp server work)
<ogra> if so, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<pips1> erm, not that I know of... original ip 192.168.1.2 set during install, then I did a search and replace with '192.168.0' --> '192.168.1' in dhcpd.conf
<ogra> ah, k
* pips1 tries ltsp-update-sshkeys anyway
<ogra> did you install sabayon or pessulus ? 
<ogra> they would need you to set up default profiles before they let unprivileged users in
<lucasvo> ogra: do you know if I can branch over ssh with bzr?
<ogra> sure use sftp://
<ogra> bzr get sftp://blah
<ogra> mkdir ../blah-branch && bzr branch . ../blah-branch
<pips1> ogra, no didn't install either
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> can you check the users ~/.xsession-errors ?
<pips1> hmm, strange, I see the new user account in the user & groups tool, but no home directory was created
<ogra> ah
<ogra> thats your problem then :) 
<pips1> does that ring a bell?
<ogra> bug against gnome-system-tools (if it doesnt exist already)
<LaserJock> ogra: you don't like the French?
<ogra> LaserJock, its bigger than the spanish ... was a size decision
<LaserJock> bummer
<ogra> give me something else to drop thats >2M
<LaserJock> firefox ;-)
<ogra> next release :)
<ogra> (waiting for ephy to be fixed)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pips1> hmm, not sure if my prob was reported yet or not... there is a similar bug (#18632), that that's way more specific than mine. Don't know what to do.
* pips1 goes and tries 'adduser' on the console instead
<pips1> ok, 'adduser' works, login from thin client now works
<LaserJock> what are Ubuntu's default icons?
<melon_> ok, I'm stuck. :( Is there any way to use local devices on thick(rich) client? 
<ogra> melon_, next release (october)
<melon_> ogra: oh, I see :( 
<pips1> ogra, tried to follow your LTSPClientKeymap howto, but there is no /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf . In fact, there doesn't seem to be a 'lts.conf' on my system (I tried find)
<ogra> yep
<pips1> ?
<ogra> there is none by default, since we dont need it "by default"
<ogra> just create it :)
<pips1> I understand
<LaserJock> ogra: just a quick thought: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/Edubuntu
<lucasvo> http://lamscommunity.org/
<lucasvo> server error :(
<lucasvo> LaserJock: create a spec
<ogra> LaserJock, sounds good for discussion in paris
* lucasvo would like to go to paris as well :)
<LaserJock> ogra: should I flesh it out and make it a spec?
<ogra> LaserJock, yep, but keep in mind that dropping stuff from one flavour wont gain us anything on the CD
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> since they should be insallable all from the same media
<LaserJock> I was looking more for making a lighter install for the Edubuntu Kids
<lucasvo> ogra: should they?
<lucasvo> LaserJock: and for e.g. not install gcompris on university version :)
<LaserJock> I was thinking that University could be fairly minimal because most people will want to customize it using meta-packs
<LaserJock> and they have good connections :-)
<lucasvo> yeah
<ogra> lucasvo, we wont ship more than one edubuntu CD
<lucasvo> LaserJock: but 14+ age is not only university
<lucasvo> also highschool with  bad connection
<ogra> so all flavours need to fit
<LaserJock> lucasvo: yeah, I was trying to think of how to do that
<lucasvo> just remove qt
<lucasvo> :)
<LaserJock> that won't solve everything
<lucasvo> no, but it gives us more space
<lucasvo> a smaller kernel :)
<ogra> LaserJock, well, it would drop KDE langpacks 
<ogra> see K: here http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt
<lucasvo> oh yeah
<ogra> or better KSum
<ogra> KDE in spanish is 12M 
<ogra> for only one language ...
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah that is a lot
<pips1> what is the config file where the keymap/country codes are stored?
<ogra> /etc/X11/xkb/keymap/
<lucasvo> but then there are a lot of missing apps
<ogra> grep xkb_keymap /etc/X11/xkb/keymap/* | awk '{split($0, kb);printf \"%s\\n\", kb[2] }'|grep -v xkb_keymap|sort|uniq"
<ogra> will give you a proper list iirc
<pips1> erm, tried you amazing grep/awk combo, but no luck ;-)
<ogra> yep, its broken
<ogra> grep xkb_keymap /etc/X11/xkb/keymap/* | awk '{split($0, kb);printf "%s\n", kb[2] }'|grep -v xkb_keymap|sort|uniq
<ogra> thats the tight one 
<ogra> *right
<pips1> it *is* tight, dude! ;-)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> the first one was just copied out of LTSPManager 
<pips1> cheers, worked like a charm (second)
<pips1> erm, so... for swiss-german keymap in LTSPClientKeymap, do I use 'ch_de' or 'de_CH'? I tried both, neither worked.
* pips1 goes and tries 'de' simply to see if the LTSPClientKeymap has an effect at all
<pips1> guys, tell me, am I a freak for wanting English system language with a swiss-german keyboard? That combination *should* just work out of the box, no? (German system language with swiss-german keyboard "just works" fine)
<ogra> on the server, yes
<ogra> not sure if you *need* to select it in the gfxboot screen before installing though
<ogra> might be that it preseeds some values in the installer
<pips1> I selected English + Swiss-German in the initial screen (F2 + F3 options)... but I still only got English keymap :-(
<pips1> ok, at least the 'de' in LTSPClientKeymap works, but I don't know what value I need to use to get swiss-german keymap on the thin clients.. Does anyone know?
<pips1> lucasvo, maybe? :-)
<ogra> de_CH ?
<pips1> That keymap bug is my personal ubuntu bug no.1, grumble, rant.
<pips1> tried that, didn't work
* pips1 tries de_CH again
<ogra> its an xkb map, so it should logically work 
<pips1> it's amazing how such seemingly trivial issues can just suck away hours and hours :-)
<highvoltage> pips1: *nods*
<pips1> he
<pips1> nope, de_CH definitely doesn't work
* pips1 doesn't know what to do next and takes a wee break
<ogra> LaserJock, before you rant again, i only dropped -support-es, not -pack-es :)
<pips1> ok guys, that was my testing day. amd64 install cd works. but I get the feeling that there are still lots of (ubuntu) bugs to be squashed!
<pips1> personal closing note for today: I really like the chalkboard background
* pips1 ducks
<pips1> ;-)
<pips1> ogra, thanks for you help! cu
<ogra> thanks for testing ! :)
<LaserJock> ogra: rant? ;-)
<ogra> :)
<pips1> my pleasure! dapper is a big step forward, imo. really nice.
<ogra> LaserJock, actually it might enable us to add -fr back :)
<ogra> pips1, thanks :)
<pips1> cheerio
<LaserJock> ogra: as long as you don't take en out I'm fine :-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> it wouldnt be installable without en :)
<LaserJock> I love terminals and I still don't get aptitude
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> same here :)
<ogra> but i didnt want to start a flame
<LaserJock> yeah, aptitude has a quite devoted following :-)
<LaserJock> somebody was going through wiki.ubuntu.com doing a s/apt-get/aptitude/
<ogra> eek
<Burgwork> LaserJock, ogra I am going to fix that once and for all
<Burgwork> the grand plan is to not mention any way of installing, simply say "Install the following packages"
<ogra> how ? 
<ogra> ah, yes
<Burgwork> it is on my todo list for tonight
<LaserJock> Burgwork: people will just s/Install the following packages/aptitude/ ;-)
<Burgwork> LaserJock, if they do, I will LART them
<LaserJock> hehe
<Burgwork> and if they do it again, I will get their edit privs yanked
<ogra> just add "changing coreys wiki additions is a violation" to the CoC ;)
<Burgwork> lol
<Burgwork> I should post to the -doc list about what I am going to do, just as fair warning
<LaserJock> I always think it is weird, if people are smart enough to use aptitude then they are obviously smart enough to s/apt-get/aptitude/ in their brain
<Burgwork> debian has standarized on aptitude over apt-get
<LaserJock> have they?
<ogra> we'll standarize on smart over aptitude *and* apt-get !
<LaserJock> darn it, I dislike how when I install kubuntu-desktop & ubuntu-desktop the menus turn into a zoo
<Burgwork> LaserJock, afaik, yes
<Burgwork> ogra, that will be nice, but we will need dummy scripts that do the same thing as apt-get and aptitude to not break peoples scritps
<LaserJock> Burgwork: how can they even do that? in their documentation?
<Burgwork> I have heard it mentioned
<LaserJock> does the documentation on the LTSP websited apply to Edubuntu?
<ogra> partially
<ogra> not to the core parts 
<ogra> but things like the ltspfs page for example and all the tweakage to dhcpd.conf etc etc 
<Burgwork> ogra, is edubuntu documentation moving off the wiki?
<ogra> partially
<ogra> not to the core parts 
<ogra> but things like the ltspfs page for example and all the tweakage to dhcpd.conf etc etc 
<Burgwork> ok
<ogra> :P
<ogra> nah, the LTSP wikipages are needed
<ogra> we'll put the more fleshed out pages on www.edubuntu.org later
<ogra> but the wiki is still the place to create docs
* highvoltage wonders where cbx33 is tonight
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> evenin all
<LaserJock> HI!
<cbx33> wow capitols
<Burgwork> salut cbx33 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33!
<cbx33> hi Burgwork , highvoltage 
<LaserJock> cbx33: yes well from about 45 min ago : *  highvoltage wonders where cbx33 is tonight
<cbx33> bb in 20
<highvoltage> there he goes again
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> oi
<highvoltage> cbx33: seems like it's some kind of version problem with php on the server (which we can't change)
<highvoltage> cbx33: so we're going with a new theme, which i have hald way done, went with friendselectric, which i should have from the beginning, it has much simpler css, and it's starting to look real nice
<saugilsr> hi all, I started a spec for Drive imaging in edubuntu.. it's my first attempt at doing such a thing so let me know if im on the right track or should commit Seppuku..  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDriveImagingSpec
<ogra> saugilsr, thats nice, but would be more applicable as an ubuntu spec 
<cbx33> highvoltage, cool
<cbx33> that sounds great
<ogra> saugilsr, we inherit such stuff from ubuntu then, usually there is no low level stuff done in edubuntu specifically
<saugilsr> ogra: ok. I can move it. Wasn't sure how that worked.
<Burgwork> saugilsr, from someone who has done both drive imaging and preseeding stuff, I think preseeding is a sane option
<cbx33> ogra, hows the testing going, got any more volunteers?
<Burgwork> cbx33, I am hours away from my first Edubuntu install, much to my horror
<ogra> saugilsr, also you are talking about /tftpboot ... seems to me you should get a bit familiar with ubuntu ltsp :)
<highvoltage> i badly wanted to get a testing group together for this release. i made some progress with bluekaja, but i think he got distracted somehow :/
<ogra> Burgwork, we're all here :)
* saugilsr goes to do some more research ;)
<ogra> cbx33, currently i'm still fighting with that i386 oversizedness
<cbx33> oh dear
<ogra> sad thing is that it should be solved since some hours
<cbx33> oh dear ++
<ogra> but every time i trigger a livefs build any package just got uploaded that breaks everything
<highvoltage> kdeedu should perhaps have been dropped earlier :/
<ogra> dia-gnome killed the current build
<ogra> highvoltage, nope
<cbx33> oh dear ++++
<highvoltage> ogra: is there anything droppable left?
<ogra> there was the spansig lanuage-support package 
<ogra> but we apparently only need the language-pack packages
<ogra> i'm currently shuffluing them around until it fits
<ogra> *spanish
* cbx33 praises ogra's patience
<ogra> the good thing is that *our* artwork is solved :)
<cbx33> :D
* ogra is happy he doesnt have to care for ubuntu-artwork this release
<ogra> dholbach has a really bad/busy time atm
<LaserJock> I can imagine
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> I had a talk with my advisor yesterday about Edubuntu and our department computer lab
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> LaserJock, good news?
<LaserJock> he said that perhaps a server computer will be available in the department soonish
<LaserJock> but he has lots of questions
<cbx33> ooooh nice
<LaserJock> and since I've never done LTSP before I'm really not sure how to answer some of them
<cbx33> LaserJock, like what?
<LaserJock> it is kinda hard because I feel like I need a computer lab to test LTSP in order for them to swith the computer lab
<LaserJock> kind of a circular issue
<ogra> two laptops and a crossover cable :)
<LaserJock> well, you can leave the hard drive and PXE boot right? so all I'd need is an Edubuntu server?
* saugilsr goes to teach a bunch of Primary teachers how to use their electronic gradebooks.. again.
<LaserJock> anyway, the sys admin has a spare box he said he was going to play with Edubuntu on
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> ok, so the hardware of the thin client doesn't matter?
<ogra> we
<cbx33> LaserJock, what network is it at the moment?
<ogra> well, you should match the minimal requirements 
<LaserJock> but we have 2 different types of computers, does that matter?
<ogra> nope
<LaserJock> what I'm wondering is, are is anything actually run on the client so that it would need drivers for instance?
<ogra> ltsp will autodetect them
<highvoltage> if it's different architechtures, it will make a difference.
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> so arch, just different motherboards, video cards, etc.
<cbx33> LaserJock, we're running out LTSP TEST server off of a laptop
<LaserJock> s/so/same/
<LaserJock> ok, so another issue is going to be opengl
<ogra> GL is an issue, different boards arent
<cbx33> what network do you have at the moment?
<cbx33> windows/unix/linux?
<ogra> ltsp uses very much the liveCD HW detection, so if you manage to boot ubuntu live, it will work with ltsp as well
<LaserJock> cbx33: windows
<LaserJock> cbx33: about 10 of them I think
<cbx33> LaserJock, well if you wanted you could run dual boot for a while
<LaserJock> ogra: ahhh, ok
<cbx33> with the windows DHCP server still server ip addresses
<LaserJock> cbx33: I think I'd have to anyway, unfortunately I doubt I can get rid of Windows altogether
<cbx33> well, remember I have docs on that setup
<LaserJock> we have too much stupid proprietary, Windows-only software the people rarely use but we have to justify the licenses I suppose :(
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't get me started on proprietary software with stupid licenses
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well we have at least one that has a parallel port key
<LaserJock> and another that you have to go to the library and check out the cds in order to run
<cbx33> me neither
<LaserJock> anyway, if I can overcome the opengl problem then I think I'd have a reasonable chance of getting somewhere
<cbx33> we're going to spend 4500 on some software to register kids every lesson
<blue-frog> will dapper beburned ok on a 700MB disk overburned?
<cbx33> and then over 2300 every year support
* cbx33 is furious
<cbx33> I offered to make a solution for them for free
<LaserJock> my idea is to have and edubuntu server that the faculty can use for labs and then have Ubuntu cds available for students to take home so they can have the same software at home
<cbx33> but they wanted to spend 7000
<cbx33> LaserJock, that's a great idea
<LaserJock> the faculty are slow to realize that students like to do homework at their dorms and not at some lab
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> so they push prorietary software that is too expensive for students to buy and then wonder why their students don't use it
<cbx33> or why they use illegal copies
<cbx33> as is the case at the school
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wha'ts a parallel port key?
<cbx33> LaserJock, a dongle?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you have to stick a key into the parallel port before the software can be run
<cbx33> highvoltage, hardware copy protection
<highvoltage> cbx33: can't be that, i don't have something that i call a dongle
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> (me had to phrase that very carefully)
<cbx33> I'm sure you did
<blue-frog> dongle it is yes
<highvoltage> oh, no, then we don't have that in common :)
<cbx33> so are we still having an informal meeting tomorrow 12 and not one in the evening
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry, i misunderstood you originally
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we call it a hardware key usually ;-)
<LaserJock> cbx33: ?
* highvoltage needs to go to sleep, needs to be at work at 6:00 tomorrow mornign
<cbx33> nn highvoltage 
<cbx33> anything I can do?
<highvoltage> goodnight cbx33 
<cbx33> are you ok with me putting ESA into drupal
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage 
<cbx33> tonight
<highvoltage> cya LaserJock 
<cbx33> I won;t publish till you have seen it
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, cool. do that. put it up, but don't publish yet.
<cbx33> of course not
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> LaserJock, do you know if anyone has looked at my getting started mail on the ML yet?
<LaserJock> cbx33: hmm, not sure, I've  been kind of out of it lately trying to keep track of all my projects and research, etc.
<cbx33> ok sorry
<cbx33> Burgwork ?
<cbx33> bbl guys
* LaserJock finds the cookbook
<lucasvo> cbx33: http://pastebin.com/733605
<Burgwork> cbx33, hmm?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: he wanted to know if anybody had looked at his latest email on the doc ML
<Burgwork> hmm, which one was that?
<Burgwork> ah, yep, I see it
<LaserJock> can all the thin clients use the same account?
<blue-frog> technically yes
<bluefrog-10> is installing workstation on a laptop aawfully long? got a black screen at the moment but the HDD is still working apparently and the CD as well
<bluefrog-10> have two fixed rectangular cursor on my black screen
<LaserJock> hmm, that doesn't sound good :/
<bluefrog-10> yes meanwhile my first install choosing the server choice went good in just a few minutes
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, can you give me a hand with a freenode matter?
<HedgeMage> sure, drop me a /msg so I can keep track of it :)
<cbx33> lucasvo, that's excellent news :p
<cbx33> hopefully we'll be able to access your site soon
<cbx33> Burgwork, did my doc look ok?
<HedgeMage> okay, if/when TT naps today, I'm going to grab a shower and dedicate whatever time is left to cookbook
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, have you tried switching to a different console
<cbx33> HedgeMage, remember me for proofing
<bluefrog-10> no didn't think of it as I am helping some guys on french ubuntu. have rebooted and trying again after having veriffied the cd
<cbx33> I have a little bit more time now ESA is out of the way
<HedgeMage> cbx33: will do, thanks :)
<cbx33> well, I say out of the way
<cbx33> I still have to mock it up in scribus
<bluefrog-10> right now select and install software as before 35%, lately the problem occured a bit after so am waiting to see
<cbx33> which is annyoing me a little since it doesn' handle transparency in pngs
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> try watching on console4 when it gets near that point again
<LaserJock> cbx33: are you ok with the changes I made with the apps section in ESA?
<cbx33> yeh totally
<cbx33> they look great
<LaserJock> ok cool
<cbx33> ogra, did you see the post on the ML about LTSP chroot build failing
<cbx33> he mentions it's on an OLD piece of hardware
<cbx33> did you say the time problem is fixed now, havn't read through fully thought I'd mention it
<LaserJock> cbx33: question. is each thin client instance a seperate chroot on the server?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> LaserJock, the LTSP works basically like terminal server on windows, hence the name
<cbx33> in essence the chroot is just a very small install that just loads an SSH connection and X server session to talk to the main server
<LaserJock> I'm afraid I've never done anything like this before :/
<cbx33> you then log into the main server essentially over an SSH link
<cbx33> if you get my drift
<LaserJock> ahh, ok that makes more sense
<cbx33> all the chroot does is do all the HW detection for the clients
<cbx33> and setup the X SSH session
<cbx33> after that you are using the normal install on the server for all the programs etc
<LaserJock> ok, I use VNC a fair bit, it would be similar to that I suppose
<cbx33> yes indeed
<cbx33> it's a litle different in that it uses ldm to present a login screen
<cbx33> but the back end of that is SSH to the server
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, same thing I managed to see at what point.. around 59% black screen, all consoles are frozen
<LaserJock> so how do you keep people from screwing up your server? 
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, did you try the special kernel debug keys
<cbx33> LaserJock, good question
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, no as I don't know what they are
<bluefrog-10> oh it's a choice at boot?
<cbx33> no
<bluefrog-10> ah
<cbx33> search the wiki for debugging a crash
<cbx33> it's to do with the SysReq key
<cbx33> and Alt
<cbx33> and T
<cbx33> Alt+SysReq+T
<cbx33> IIRC
<cbx33> Burgwork, now that was odd :p
<HedgeMage> cbx33: he's setting up some stuff on another chan
<cbx33> ah :p
<Burgwork> cbx33, just took control of #ubuntu-ca, so I need to fix that
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> HedgeMage, i lost me password to an old nick that I had.  Any chance I can get it back?
<HedgeMage> if it can be done, I'll do it :)
<HedgeMage> just drop me a /msg
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, from what i understand the keys may give you a chance when it's crash on a running system not during install, anyway tried them with no luck
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, well in essence it is a running system
<cbx33> but I'm guessing it didn't work
<bluefrog-10> fn keys not working on vaio laptop
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, submitted bug?
<bluefrog-10> done it 3 or 4 months ago..
<cbx33> :(
<bluefrog-10> am trying to install from livecd to see if i have same problem
<cbx33> sorry bluefrog-10 if I was skilled in that area I'd fix it for you
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i would think you probably would
<cbx33> but i'll keep my fingers crossed
<bluefrog-10> no problem I don' t really care about them it's just i tried desperately to lower the sound when launching gcompris :)
<bluefrog-10> hoping it would work now :)
<bluefrog-10> the graphical install from livecd is very nice, making me sweat but very nice :)
<bluefrog-10> it's stuck at 0% of resizing partition when it's not supposed to resize anything :)
<HedgeMage> eek!
<HedgeMage> that would make me nervous, too
<bluefrog-10> well 20 minutes after am still on it
<bluefrog-10> cd running from time to time
<bluefrog-10> HDD blinking
<bluefrog-10> woops
<bluefrog-10> went thru in a split second right now
<bluefrog-10> clicked on install..
<cbx33> hehe
<bluefrog-10> what i don't like though is the fact it's saing creating bla bla in partition number 3..
<bluefrog-10> instead of /dev/hda8
<bluefrog-10> not deadly but makes me frown :)
<bluefrog-10> I like the ETA
<cbx33> hi Bluekuja 
<Bluekuja> oooh pete 
<Bluekuja> :)
<Bluekuja> how much time man?
<cbx33> a whiley?
<cbx33> while y?
<cbx33> brb
<Bluekuja> oki ping me when you return
<HedgeMage> hi Bluekuja 
<Bluekuja> hello HedgeMage :)
<Bluekuja> how are you?
<HedgeMage> okay, just running behind on some things
<Bluekuja> oh irc stuff?
<Bluekuja> or something related to your life?
<HedgeMage> little of all of the above
<Bluekuja> oh oki, i hope you'll get out from that
<Bluekuja> ;)
<HedgeMage> :) working on it!
<Bluekuja> good luck then
<bluefrog-10> cool reboot is working normally compared to breezy on my laptop
<bluefrog-10> what I don't understand is the grub menu
<Bluekuja> bluefrog-10: what are you talking about?
<bluefrog-10> have kernel 2.6.15 and ubuntu 6.06 LTS
<Bluekuja> oh you're testing
<bluefrog-10> what's the difference
<bluefrog-10> yes
<bluefrog-10> well i understand one difference when I choose ubuntu 6.06 LTS I can't log in. it rejects my user and/or my password
<cbx33> ping Bluekuja 
<Bluekuja> oi pete
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, can you have a quick look at what i just wrote above pls?
<cbx33> what about it?
<bluefrog-10> at grub menu at boot have kernel 2.6.15 and ubuntu 6.06 LTS what's the difference?
<bluefrog-10> after an install from livecd
<cbx33> hmmm
<bluefrog-10> which took awfully long but worked
<cbx33> not sure tried them both?
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hmm....not sure tbh
<bluefrog-10> kernel blaba let's me log in, ubuntu not
<cbx33> it's not the LTSP boot is it?
<cbx33> which means it'd be looking for an LTSP server
<bluefrog-10> ubnut lts choice doesn't let me log in
<bluefrog-10> ah ok
<bluefrog-10> huh?
<bluefrog-10> looking for a server?
<bluefrog-10> you mean complete workstation but looking to get it's authentication from a ldap like server?
<bluefrog-10> while kernel 2.6.15 choice is an ltsp server?
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, no it's not an lts boot, i don't have any ltsp server running
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> but it may be an option
<bluefrog-10> hum why is there a bit torrent tracker activated btw?
<bluefrog-10> just saw it stopping down when I was shutting down pc
<bluefrog-10> well am gonna hit the sac..I'll be here tomorrow to ask about those two choices in grub, ty
<cbx33> nn bluefrog-10 
<cbx33> you still around Bluekuja 
<bluefrog-10> and about bit torrent :)
<Bluekuja> cbx33: yep
<cbx33> np bluefrog-10 
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> havn't seen you in a while
<bluefrog-10> so for a quick briefing, dapper install failed twice
<Bluekuja> yeah, I'm working  a lot on packages
<bluefrog-10> install from dapper live went good but long
<Bluekuja> both debian and rpm
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, if you can identify where it would be good
<cbx33> Bluekuja, for gnome?
<cbx33> packaging?
<Bluekuja> well i packaged some gnome programs too, but i'm working on 3 packages for Debian (Ctorrent, gtorrent-viewer, v2strip) and 2 rpm for fedora (ctorrent,v2strip)
<cbx33> ah cool
<Bluekuja> i'm working with a debian developer for deb packages
<cbx33> cool
<Bluekuja> yeah, it is. I've also read a lot of guides,howtos and so on in the last 3 weeks
<cbx33> nice
<Bluekuja> and then a lot of practice
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: incuding the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<cbx33> LaserJock, now that doc rocks....
<cbx33> who wrote that again ? :p
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: yes you suggested me to read it some days ago
<LaserJock> some idiot from ubuntu-doc I think
<cbx33> i heard he's pretty darn good
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: and so i followed your suggestion
<Bluekuja> yeah, its a really nice guide
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: I just wondered if you actually read it ;-)
<HedgeMage> lol
* cbx33 has
<cbx33> several times :p
<Bluekuja> in fact it's one of the best guides i've found in the web
<LaserJock> great, Ubuntu community strikes again :-)
<Bluekuja> i want to say Great work to the writer but i dont know who is he :p
<Bluekuja> hehe jk
<cbx33> right I'm off to bed
<cbx33> nn #edubuntu
<HedgeMage> night night cbx33 
<Bluekuja> anyway very nice work jordan, you have done a great thing
<Bluekuja> cya pete :)
<LaserJock> cya cbx33 
<cbx33> nn all
<cbx33> LaserJock, know who would get that getting started doc into the repo
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: for how much time have you worked on it?
<LaserJock> cbx33: I guess I can ask mdke real quick and then commit it
<cbx33> nah it;s fine
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: lots and lots :-)
<cbx33> when you get a second
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: I spent ~ 10 hrs a day for 3 days to finish it
<LaserJock> right before the doc freeze
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: well it's a complete guide in every part
<LaserJock> well, there is a lot more to be done
<cbx33> nn guys
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: yeah, but anyway what is ready now is great
<LaserJock> I'm pretty excited about what we can do with the Edgy version
<cbx33> me too
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: thank you
<LaserJock> I'm glad it helped
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: np :) 
<Bluekuja> yeah, it explains things in a linear way, easy to understand
<Bluekuja> so you can read it thousand times
<Bluekuja> without get bored
<Bluekuja> hehe ;)
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: did you read the Debian New Maintainers Guide?
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: of course
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: also packaging library files
<Bluekuja> guide
<LaserJock> Bluekuja: did you find the Ubuntu guide better/easier, honestly?
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: well in Debian new main guide there are more points covered like debian/* files explanation and so on, anyway Ubuntu Guide is easier to understand and apply
<Bluekuja> of course, as you said before, its not complete
<Bluekuja> so maybe in the future when it'll cover more points ,it 'll be perfect
<Bluekuja> what do you think?
<LaserJock> ok, cool. that is what I was thinking as well
<LaserJock> I just didn't have enough time to cover all the topics I wanted to
<LaserJock> as long as what's there seems good, it will be pretty easy to add a lot more material for Edgy
<Bluekuja> yeah, exactly. I think that with Edgy release there will be more news from Ubuntu packaging guide side
<Bluekuja> if you need an hand, just ask
<LaserJock> specifically, I want to add more on patch systems and making patches, more CDBS, and more actual examples
<Bluekuja> yeah, right. Examples are important
<Bluekuja> so add how many examples you can
<LaserJock> yeah, the problem is getting examples that stay current during the whole release
<LaserJock> that is why I chose the hello packages
<Bluekuja> oh oki, have you ever taken a look to library packaging guide?
<LaserJock> not a lot
<LaserJock> do you have the URL handy?
<crimsun> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html comes to mind.
<Bluekuja> exactly crimsum
<Bluekuja> :)
<crimsun> the DD should be familiar already (i.e., pbuilder)
<LaserJock> crimsun: comes to mind?
<crimsun> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> that url comes to mind? that's a pretty good memory
<crimsun> it's bookmarked.
<crimsun> I do have a ridiculous knack for uris, though.
<LaserJock> my problem is that I use way too many computers so I have different bookmarks on different computers in different browsers
<crimsun> there are quite a few solutions to that.
<crimsun> yahoo has their own Web 2.0 or whatever that tracks bookmarks on your personalised site
<crimsun> I'd be surprised if Google didn't have something similar
<LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to try that out
<crimsun> something else to try is http://www2.cali.org/scuttle/about.php
<LaserJock> I really need a way of tracking things, pieces of paper all over my desk isn't really cutting it
<crimsun> I'm attempting to find my former co-worker's online bookmark manager at UMN, but her url escapes me atm
<crimsun> you don't happen to use beagle, do you?
<LaserJock> no
<crimsun> (neither do I, but it probably hooks into this somehow)
<LaserJock> since I'm hardly ever actually *at* an Ubuntu box
<LaserJock> I've done a personal wiki before, but it is hard to make something that I can access for anywhere
<crimsun> well, you mentioned wanting to learn Python further. Here ya go: http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/xbel/
<LaserJock> hehe, cool
<LaserJock> crimsun: I guess what I really need is my own server :-)
<crimsun> that's a bit overkill, really
<LaserJock> actually, if I had my own wiki space I'd probably be fairly content, as it is I have info spread over ~ 6 computers that may or may not be accessible at any given time
<crimsun> ...you do have your own wiki space
<crimsun> you could easily delegate underneath wiki.u.c/$you
<LaserJock> yeah, but I hate doing that. anyway, I'm getting us waaay OT
<Bluekuja> cya LaserJock, cya crimsum
<Bluekuja> I've to go
<Bluekuja> see you tomorrow, goodnight
<LaserJock> cya Bluekuja 
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> amd64 workstation check
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I'm going to try out ogra's rsyncer.sh on i386 live
<jsgotangco> yeah that script is pretty neat
<LaserJock> I think rsyncing of iso should be better advertised
<jsgotangco> i will give ogra my patch later
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> yeah, I got the i386 live up
<LaserJock> ohhh, the gnome splash screen is nice
<LaserJock> why couldn't they have made the background that color :/
<jsgotangco> the green one that is a bit luminous?
<LaserJock> kinda aquamarine or something
<jsgotangco> yeah that's cool
<LaserJock> hmm, it isn't so fast on my 1.3GHz P4 with 256MB RAM
<crimsun> note the significance of RAM.
<LaserJock> yep, I should try it on my 2.1GHz AMD with 1 GB of RAM
<crimsun> you guys make me sick :p
<Laser_away> crimsun: why?
<crimsun> (hardware)
<Laser_away> well, most of it is lab computers
<crimsun> heh, our labs are P2 300s
<Laser_away> I've got 1 desktop and 1 laptop for the wife
<Laser_away> crimsun: we have 4 intel iMacs and a 2.6GHz P4 for data collection ;-)
<crimsun> heh
<Laser_away> anyway, good night
<jsgotangco> night
<jsgotangco> wished i had a mac
<crimsun> 'night lj
<cbx33> moorrniinng
<Laser_away> jsgotangco: it isn't always so nice. it has taken some time for a lot of the software to have x86 versions
<crimsun> (aren't you supposed to be asleep?)
<HedgeMage> yes.
<Laser_away> crimsun: on my way ;-) just got home from school
<crimsun> I definitely am, so I suppose this is going on my fifth day without sleep.
<HedgeMage> lol thought you meant me
<HedgeMage> it seems sleeplessness is a trend around here
<Laser_away> yikes, I have to have 8 hrs a day. I don't think I'll make professor
<crimsun> it's easy to have a consistent schedule when you don't have six million things to attend to
<crimsun> it's easy to get 8hrs of sleep even when you do; you just blow off some stuff :-)
<HedgeMage> lol
* HedgeMage blows of some stuff and goes to bed
<Laser_away> crimsun: the more I see what my advisor has to do on a daily basis the less I'm inclined to go into academia
<cbx33> Laser_away, heheh
<crimsun> trust me, it blows. /'scuse the language.
* cbx33 wanted to do that sorta thing....
<cbx33> just so that I could be at the cutting edge, and teach people at the same time
<crimsun> the sole redeeming thing about it is the flexibility of the hours
<crimsun> granted, when you're up at 5 AM not of your free will, it doesn't seem to be very flexible...
<jsgotangco> back
<jsgotangco> i just sleep all day on weekends
<jsgotangco> just to make up
<jsgotangco> (especially sunday)
<cbx33> my wife would kill me f I did that
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> plus it's an opportunity for extra linux time
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> heh my work is already linux related
<jsgotangco> (although very little of it is developmental in nature)
<cbx33> wow small crowd :p
<cbx33> if I want to upgrade a breezy box to dapper, do I just edit the sources.list file ala breezy/dapper and run apt-get dist-upgrade ?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: gksu update-manager -d
<jsgotangco> if you want it graphical :)
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> did my update make it into the repo yet?
<jsgotangco> http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=14
* jsgotangco shrugs dunno
* jsgotangco will check later after work
<cbx33> k np
<cbx33> sorry jsgotangco 
<cbx33> hat's great but I don't have an Upgrade button
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<bimberi> !upgrade
<ubotu> from memory, upgrade is Upgrading to Ubuntu 5.10 breezy -> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyUpgrade. Upgrading to Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades . Note command line: gksudo "update-manager -d" always updates to the bleeding edge.
<bimberi> cbx33: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
<HedgeMage> hi there :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: make sure your breezy is updated, u-m has a patch for that so that when you gksu the new version should appear and ask you if you want to upgrade
<cbx33> ok, only updates I see atm are for dia and mysql, but hang tight and I'll just run the update again
<bimberi> hi HedgeMage, jsgotangco, cbx33, ... :)
<cbx33> nope still no upgrade button
<HedgeMage> hi bimberi 
<cbx33> gksu-run: :0.0gksu-run: da60428046fe0d9c5fa11f4d6a29f12d/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/apt/__init__.py:17: FutureWarning: apt API not stable yet
<bimberi> hmmk - i'll try my breezy boot - brb
<bimberi> cbx33: i get that warning message too but it's working here (the button appears) - does 'lsb_release -a' say you have breezy?
<cbx33> LSB Version:    n/aDistributor ID: UbuntuDescription:    Ubuntu (The Breezy Badger Release)Release:        5.10Codename:       breezy
<bimberi> hmmk :/
* cbx33 mvo Good morning, having an issue with the update manager and the upgrade button, dholbach said I should contact you
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> grrrr not online
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> that's it - go straight to the top :)
<cbx33> except mvo isn't online
<cbx33> :S
<bimberi> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/people/mvo has other contact details
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> dholbach said he'd be around in a while
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, you got accpeted?
<Amaranth> yep
<Burgundavia> sweet
<bimberi> \o/
<Burgundavia> you see taht vista is going to ship with parental controls right there?
<Amaranth> ?
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<Burgundavia> http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic26334.html
<Burgundavia> what that doesn't show is timebased restrictions
<cbx33> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 12h 19m 6s ago, saying: 'cya LaserJock '.
<jsgotangco> hmm no rsync result...do i smell edubuntu RC?
<ogra> jsgotangco, not really
<jsgotangco> ogra: ive been testing today, so far no issue
<ogra> seems i386 live is ok now but powerpc broke alongside
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> (amd64 that is)
* ogra shakes his fist in pitti's direction
<ogra> he just added all fonts that are used in ubuntu to our cd
<ogra> err
<ogra> s/fonts/lnags
<ogra> *langs
<cbx33> did someone say there is a seperate iso for ubuntu server?
<jsgotangco> ouchhh
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yes
<jsgotangco> plesae check cdimage.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> thanks jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: we don't really make regular milestone releases for ubuntu-server but we have flight 6 i believe
<jsgotangco> aside from me i dunno anyone who tests it outside the core team
<cbx33> ok that's fine as longas it installs
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah i think all the langs are now automatically uploaded
<cbx33> one thing I have noticed, is that downloading an iso from the cdimages.ubuntu.com site breaks a lot
<cbx33> using wget it's ok it retries
<cbx33> but something like ff, which is what a lot of non-techie people will use doesn't
<cbx33> JaneW: is our unofficial meeting in here today, and do you want minutes?
<cbx33> ogra: do we have the exmaple content in edubuntu cd iso?
<JaneW> cbx33: just some brief notes if possible
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> is it in here
<jsgotangco> no we don't have example content if there was it would have already been symlinked to home
<cbx33> ok cool was just gonna say that package is massive
<spacey> ah
<spacey> meeting soon
<cbx33> well 1.5 hours I believe :p
<spacey> ill try not to forget
<spacey> mad busy
<jsgotangco> i need to go home then
<cbx33> spacey: i know the feeling
<spacey> but i do have some cool news,
<spacey> at least it think its cool if its really gonna happen
<spacey> i'll save it up for the meeting
<jsgotangco> on what?
<spacey> =P
<ogra> cbx33, you are joking, right ? 
<ogra> example-content is >10MB
<ogra> (probably even >20MB i didnt look for a while) :)
<jsgotangco> jeezz seems we're really struggling for space...
<jsgotangco> by the kb...
<ogra> i'll dropp some essential stuff now ;)
<cbx33> ogra: i was joking
<cbx33> i just saw it pop up on my dapper upgrade
<jsgotangco> are you removing build-essential from the cd?
<ogra> from the livecd
<jsgotangco> ahh yes
<ogra> hmm
<cbx33> it sux that everyone isn't using DVDs now
* cbx33 notes that he isn't yet
<blue-frog> hi
<jsgotangco> even if they do, it'll take a while to grab a dvd image
<ogra> gah
<blue-frog> question to ogra about install from livecd
<cbx33> jsgotangco: until the Net 2 comes out :p
<cbx33> hahahaha
<ogra> we dont have it yet ... noting to drop :/
<cbx33> blue-frog: shoot
<ogra> (build-essential that is)
<ogra> blue-frog, go for it 
<blue-frog> gives me 2 choices at grub.. ubuntu kernel 2.6.15 AND ubuntu 6.06 LTS
<blue-frog> first one let's me log in
<blue-frog> second one ignoers either my user and/or my password
<jsgotangco> gee
<blue-frog> what's the difference between the 2 choices?
<ogra> was there a install on the machine before you used the liveCD for installation ? 
<blue-frog> xp and breezy install
<ogra> (you should only have one option)
* cbx33 has seen these options before
<cbx33> but I can't remember where
<blue-frog> made a server install from edubuntu cd as well but on hda8 where i installed from livecd and formated hda8
<cbx33> what does the grub conf say
<blue-frog> i still have xp and breezy options as well of course..
<blue-frog> grub.conf where do I find that?
<cbx33>  /boot/grub/menu.1st
<cbx33> i think
<blue-frog> going to log in using the kernel 2.6.15 option
<cbx33> unless it's changed.....
<cbx33> then put the result in a pastebin
<blue-frog> oh menu lst ok hang on booting
<blue-frog> ok stop got it
<cbx33> :p
<blue-frog> kernel 2.6.15 is on hda3
<blue-frog> now I am not happy about that because...
<blue-frog> from the live cd install I chose (almost sure but am going to do another install in few minutes
<ogra> blue-frog, the "server" install willl be dropped during this week, no need to test that
<blue-frog> was not really testing
<blue-frog> was surprised to see workstation AND server
<blue-frog> so I took server at first
<blue-frog> but i erased it right after installation
<jsgotangco> dinner brb
<jsgotangco> see ya at the meeting then
<blue-frog> so from livecd install I chose hda8 to install but then the installer was talking to me about installing on partiton number 3, I recall that I was surprised to see that yesterday night
<cbx33> blue-frog: i remember you saying that
<blue-frog> am going to boot on breezy format hda8 AND hda3 then will do another install from livecd
<blue-frog> btw install ffrom dapper-install-i386 hangs up on my sony laptop
<ogra> blue-frog, you dont happen to run 2.6.15 on your breezy install ? 
<blue-frog> while it runs from livecd (slowly but goes thru anyway
<blue-frog> no ogra
* cbx33 did
<blue-frog> 2.6.12 or so
<cbx33> :p
<blue-frog> 2.6.12.10 fro breezy
<blue-frog> also ogra I have seen quickly a bit torrent tracker service stopping down yesterday, what is it about?
<ogra> blue-frog, <Kamion> ogra: please get the user to file a coherent bug report, attaching /boot/grub/menu.lst
<blue-frog> will do after new install if still the same
<ogra> its a bt tracker ... to speed up your torrent stuff if you do some ...
<ogra> its there since breezy already
<cbx33> indeed it is :D
<blue-frog> oh never noticed it in breezy ok then
<blue-frog> well for grub won't have duplicate stuff as am reasing hda8 AND hda#
<blue-frog> 3
<ogra> if it still appears, please file a bug ... 
<blue-frog> where are the system tools gone?
<blue-frog> ok got them
<ogra> and also please wait with reinstalls in such cases, its very important to find all hidden ubiquity bugs 
<blue-frog> ubiquity comes from me now i know as kernel 2.16.15 was on had3 and ubuntu lts was on hda8
<blue-frog> was late yesterday so i didn't see that
<ogra> ah,k 
<blue-frog> that's why i reinstall from livecd after erasing both hda8 and 3
<blue-frog> which leaves me only with breezy and xp now
<ogra> we're all just highly alerted if you find any bug in ubiquity atm ... its our most critical addition in dapper
<blue-frog> the thing thouthg is that ubuntu lts wouldn't let me log in
<cbx33> ogra: is there any more testing you need for ubiquity?
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> but not on ppc :)
<ogra> i'll have to get that back in shape first
<cbx33> I can't test ppc
<cbx33> unlessyou have a machien to donate to me :p
<ogra> i only have only one myself ... 
<ogra> (and thats even my main working machine)+
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> OMW, dapper is FASSTTT
<spacey> ok, i'm off to my office, so im on time for the meeting, bbl
<blue-frog> was too tired yesterday night to make the install. installing from livecd right where I told it to install... so this was my fault to have an install on hda3 insteda of 8
<ogra> ah, k
<blue-frog> one thing though which surprises me, yesterday night took me 45 minutes to install, right now ETA is 20 minutes... weird
<blue-frog> on same computer of course..
<cbx33> oh joy dave-YL is here 
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> I've been giving him grief today
<cbx33> making him think for himself
<ogra> you evil guy :P
<cbx33> i know I'm awful
<blue-frog> is the ltsp server activated upon boot with the livecd?
<ogra> there is no server stuff at all on the liveCD
<cbx33> ltsp server isn't on the live cd is it ogra ?
* cbx33 is going to be exploring that option
<ogra> neither ltsp nor schooltool is there
<cbx33> i have a box I'm not allowed to open or install on.....so a live ltsp server would be great
<blue-frog> oh ok so the edubuntu livd cd is just a "normal" workstation
<ogra> you wouldnt have fun with it
<cbx33> in essence yes
<ogra> blue-frog, yep
<cbx33> ogra: you said it was easy
<cbx33> :p
<blue-frog> it installs an ltsp server though, correct?
<ogra> blue-frog, nope
<blue-frog> :(
<ogra> its a plain workstation liveCD
<ogra> and only installs whats in the live session
<ogra> (shipit wont have the liveCD btw)
<blue-frog> rats as I can't install from the "normal"cd then..
<cbx33> I have to find a use for this Dual processor machine with 2Gb of ram
<cbx33> live cd is my only option :)
<cbx33> well the only sensible option
<ogra> blue-frog, you can install the WS veryion and add the server stuff manually later 
<ogra> its a bit manual work but works as well
<blue-frog> afraid that i will have to do that, i will try to install on another machine the "normal" edubuntu cd to see if it hangs on me as it does on my laptop
<JaneW> *reminder* Edubuntu informal meeting here in 15 mins
<blue-frog> btw you told me that ther is a bit torrent tracker service running on breezy, I have not such a thing and for sure I din't uninstalled such a thing..
<ogra> JaneW, seen my conversation with jelkner in -meeting ?
<JaneW> no
* JaneW looks
<JaneW> HAHA
<ogra> :)
<blue-frog> ok i understand the torrent thing, was ps ax | grep bit or to or tra  but it is not listed as such
<cbx33> don;t tell dave-YL anything :p
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'm just kidding
<cbx33> if he asks a good question...
<dave-YL> can someone help me, i what to upgrade from breezy to dapper 
<ogra> blue-frog, it doesnt run unless you set up a torrent tracker to serve other people 
<blue-frog> ah ok
<ogra> dave-YL, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
<cbx33> oh ogra :p
<dave-YL> thank you
<cbx33> was trying to inject a small amount of RTFM heheheh
<JaneW> yikes I am so busy
<JaneW> someone make time slow down!
<blue-frog> one minor thing, the gimp and thunderbird (amongst others) are still not getting their icons from the gartoon theme, is there a place where I can read about the fetching mechanism?
<ogra> heh
<pips1> meeting now or in the evening?
<JaneW> now
<pips1> ta
<ogra> blue-frog, they simply have no icon in gartoon and the system automatically falls back to the hicolor theme 
<blue-frog> well i can see an icon for thunder and gimp in /usr/share/icons/gratoon/sclable/apps
<cbx33> <!---------------------------meeting notes start here------------------->
<JaneW> ok let's do this
<JaneW> I'd prefer to not ramble as I have a lot to sort out, so let's try to stick to the point and stay on topic ;)
<cbx33> works for me, makes my notes easier
<JaneW> firstly it is still not common knowledge, but I will be leaving Canonical in mid-June
<cbx33> :(
<JaneW> no offficial notice has gone out yet, and I have actually been ask not to circulate the news too braodly BUT
<cbx33> I may just forget to minute that
<JaneW> we need to plan how to hand over all my tasks
<cbx33> JaneW: indeed
<cbx33> what did you have in mind?
<JaneW> and I don't want it to be too last minute and for stuff to be dropped
<JaneW> mhz agreed to help administer the edubuntu devel lists
<JaneW> it is not something ogra should be doing
<JaneW> jdub has set up the edubuntu-users one AFAIK
<JaneW> ideally I think someone should own both of those
<cbx33> JaneW: waves
<JaneW> there is a LOT of spam sent to e-d atm
<JaneW> and I send a lot of time filtering that
<JaneW> cbx33: cool, I'll add you the the admin list
<pips1> (erm, shouldn't we be in ubuntu-meeting? I see some folks over there...)
<cbx33> ok great
<JaneW> cbx33: let me know what address to use
<cbx33> ok. i think silentkeystroke@googlemail.com
<jsgotangco> tadaaaa
<ogra> JaneW, i still own both MLs
<ogra> (i'd appreciate help for -users though)
<jsgotangco> we have edubuntu-users???
<ogra> but i havent gotten around to set it up completely yet
<JaneW> ogra: yes, I don't think you should get all the spam though
<JaneW> unless you want it
<ogra> JaneW, i want it ;) i have good filters in evo
<JaneW> ogra: can you add cbx33 to e-u too please?
<JaneW> and mhz
<ogra> yep, will do if i do the final setup
<cbx33> ta ogra 
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<JaneW> I will stop culling the sapm from tomorrow \o/
<JaneW> spam
<cbx33> w00t
<jsgotangco> how much do you get?
<JaneW> ogra: let me know if you want me to help with setting that list up and announcing it etc
<JaneW> LOADS
<ogra> jsgotangco, not as much as from ubuntu-users :)
<jsgotangco> wahahaha
<jsgotangco> ubuntu-doc has like 100s too
<cbx33> was it something we said :p
<JaneW> ok so mailing lists are sorted
<cbx33> what else?
<JaneW> we also need people to send official announcements as appropriate
<jsgotangco> annoucements?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: you do some official announcements don't you?
<JaneW> ogra normally handles the release announcements (jsgotangco helps)
<jsgotangco> im drafting a release annoucement
<cbx33> :D
<jsgotangco> somewhere here...
<jsgotangco> hmm
<JaneW> but minutes, council decisions etc need to be scribed and posted
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> usually ogra or JaneW announces the relesae
<JaneW> cbx33: want to take on that role?
<cbx33> sure
<JaneW> you can delegate as you need to
<JaneW> so no need to do everything yourself, just make sure it happens
<ogra> i'm not even sure we'll have separate announcements
<cbx33> ok great
<cbx33> I'll discuss with ogra when he has a second
<jsgotangco> ogra: that would be ok i guess
<jsgotangco> whatever mdz wishes
* pips1 will miss JaneW 
* cbx33 too
* JaneW will miss everyone
<jsgotangco> huh?
<jsgotangco> did i miss something here?
<JaneW> I want to see edubuntu girl back in october
<JaneW> then I'll know I was loved :P
<jsgotangco> ??????
<ogra> jsgotangco, JaneW leaves us
<pips1> JaneW firstly it is still not common knowledge, but I will be leaving Canonical in mid-June
<jsgotangco> can someone give me a cluebut????
<jsgotangco> s/cluebut/cluebat
<jsgotangco> WHAATTTTT
<cbx33> yup, sux though it does
<ogra> absolutely
<JaneW> :`(
* cbx33 starts the group hug
<jsgotangco> i dunno what to say
* ogra hugs JaneW 
<JaneW> I am seriously hoping I can come to the oct gathering to see everyone and stay involved
<cbx33> :D
<JaneW> maybe I can get rehired!
<cbx33> woohoo
<JaneW> right in the mean time did the shipit info get added to the FAQ yet?
<JaneW> cbx33 / highvoltage ? ^^
* cbx33 had no admin acc ess highvoltage said he would take care of it
<JaneW> and for those that don't yet know edubuntu CDS will be available
<cbx33> but only in quantities of 5
<JaneW> shipit.edubuntu.com
<cbx33> isn't that right?
<pips1> nice one
<JaneW> cbx33: for now
<cbx33> .org or .com ?
<JaneW> com
<ogra> everybody involved in documentation, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers
<ogra> (while we're at it)
<cbx33> ogra: yup saw that earlier
<flint> JaneW, Elkner reports that people are using the current homie artwork spontaneously as their desktops.  This is a good thing eh?
<ogra> this needs to be sorted before release !!!
<cbx33> will trawl through what I have seen
<cbx33> and correct accordingly
<ogra> flint, absolutely ! :)
<cbx33> ogra: did you also want to mention about the wiki help move thing
<cbx33> CategoryDocumentation
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> ok
<JaneW> flint: yes glad to hear it
<ogra> since i see the wiki as a more valuable doc place for us currently
<flint> bbiam
<ogra> there are not many docs we could move 
<JaneW> ogra: you get to send a big 'told you so' to the art work officials ;P
<cbx33> ogra: me too, but I was told it was all moving
<cbx33> even edubuntu stuff
<ogra> JaneW, already tols silbs in #c ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> cbx33, i dont want to have all of it moved and i told Burgwork so
<cbx33> ok excellent
<cbx33> I had my reservations and was going to voice them to you
<pips1> sorry: move wiki content from where to where?
* mhz is fnally here ;)
<JaneW> cbx33: highvoltage said he had already given you admin rights on the site
<ogra> it will do no harm if it gets moved to doc.u.c, but i will kill everybody who deletes edubuntu specific stuff from the wiki
<JaneW> is that not the case?
<JaneW> he told me that before I sent the mail to you re the FAQ
<cbx33> JaneW: I do have admin now, but I didn't have the content
<ogra> (as long as we had no time to review and sort it, which wont happen before release)
<JaneW> cbx33: in mail
<cbx33> no, my admin rights didn't work
<cbx33> and i didn't get mail.... :S
<JaneW> OIC
* JaneW resends
<cbx33> thanky
<cbx33> will work that up asap
* mhz would gladly help with moin stuff
<pips1> where is highvoltage ? I was busy the last weeks, but now I want to touch base with him re website... JaneW do you know if he will be available, or is he currently too busy?
* jsgotangco sits in a corner
<JaneW> pips1: I am not sure
<pips1> hmm
<cbx33> pips1: anything i can help with?
<JaneW> pips1: I think he was around earlier and probably will be later
<pips1> yeah, I'll try to catch him :-)
<cbx33> btw i know highvoltage isworking on the new css theme
<JaneW> so is our wiki/web responsibility covered?
<ogra> he wantet to be around occasionally today (chatting via GSM)
<cbx33> there is a difference in the php setup between our testing servers and the official edubuntu one, so we have to create it again from scratch
<pips1> cbx33, lets talk after this meeting
<cbx33> np pips1 
<pips1> I mean, if there is other things that need discussion first?
<pips1> are
* highvoltage checks hilights
<pips1> JaneW ?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, you have editor rights!!!
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes yell at him ;)
<cbx33> please don;t yell....
<pips1> hey highvoltage 
<JaneW> pips1: ?
<cbx33> :(
<highvoltage> pips1: here briefly again now
<JaneW> cbx33: joking...
<cbx33> I didn't have editor rights at the time,and i never got the email ..... boo hoo
<pips1> highvoltage, I want to touch base with you re website!
<highvoltage> hey pips1 
<JaneW> cbx33:  I think I have too many e-mail addresses for you
<highvoltage> pips1: okay, we'll talk later, i'll be uploading the new new theme tonight
<JaneW> and we both had mail server issues
<jsgotangco> ...
<cbx33> JaneW: besides it's already been done :p
<cbx33> we did indeed
<pips1> highvoltage, when is a good time for you to talk?
<highvoltage> btw, is there a meeting now? i thought it was canceled? or is this the 'informal get-together'?
<cbx33> informal
<cbx33> group hugging session
<JaneW> highvoltage: between you pips1 and cbx33 are the wiki/web maintenance and update functions covered?
<JaneW> highvoltage: the latter
<highvoltage> pips1: good question, tonight 7PM'ish?
* mhz is surprised how fast highvoltage can type from his cell phone !
<highvoltage> JaneW: on the web, that won't be a problem, since we planned launch with 6.06
<highvoltage> JaneW: wiki will need lots of work still
<cbx33> mhz: he has a neural interface :p
<pips1> highvoltage, 7pm should work (need to check with my wife though :-)
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> JaneW: cbx33 has been cleaning up a lot of it
<cbx33> JaneW: I'm working on wiki when i can, new wiki front page is almost complete
* ogra wonders why he just read lunch in highvoltage'S last line
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am most concerned now that someone takes the reigns and makes sure what needs to happen does happen
<highvoltage> JaneW: and we've got all the pages indexed, so conversion shouldn't cause to many problems
<cbx33> I was trying to tie up LTSP pages before release
<cbx33> and we've identified pages to be deleted
<JaneW> I anticipate that edubuntu is going to get more focus in the next release, like kubuntu did in this one
<highvoltage> JaneW: noted, i can let you at ease in a few hours from now, just need to sort out some stuff at work, and then i'm there
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'll draw up a plan tonight for the web / wiki version updates
<jsgotangco> :/
<JaneW> and it will be important that the team is organised and functional and seen to be working well, to be given more support and allowed to advance further
* mhz crosses fingers JaneW is right about focus
<cbx33> highvoltage: I'm happy to give my progess reports on it
* highvoltage nods
<cbx33> JaneW: yes i agree
<highvoltage> cbx33: that would be fantastic
<cbx33> np ;)
<ogra> JaneW, why ? 
<JaneW> the thing is the better a community there is, the more belief there will be in it
<ogra> JaneW, kubuntu wasnt organized either until recently :P
<highvoltage> JaneW: sad to see you go for edubuntu, happy for you though
<cbx33> hehe
<JaneW> kubuntu proved itself as serious an sustainable and now it has been given more of a boost
<cbx33> we're getting there
<JaneW> edubuntu wil be looked at similarly
<cbx33> and the more we can prove ourselves the more we can push it
<ogra> yep, but they have a *lot* of users
<ogra> we're still a niche product (and will stay one)
* jsgotangco sulks in a corner
<JaneW> ogra: agreed the space is a bit different, but the principle is the same
<cbx33> no reason we ca't have a massive user base, being in education gives us the opportunity for a massive one
<ogra> i dont think anybody will put the same expectations on us
<cbx33> ogra: not initially
<cbx33> I hold big hopes for edubuntu
<JaneW> ogra: don't see it as a negative
<ogra> even not in the future 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: being a niche products is often a good thing
<jsgotangco> we're still niche
<ogra> JaneW, i dont see that as negative
<mhz> ogra: if FET is good, then we should have at least 5 Chilean schools using edubuntu (about at least 300 users)
<ogra> but our audience is very specific ... that wont change
<highvoltage> i bet you there are more people currently in school (read: potential edubuntu users) than there are kurrently kubuntu users ;)
<cbx33> highvoltage: my point exactly
<jsgotangco> we're still niche
<JaneW> anyway the point is I do think that if this community shows it is functional and organised it will get a boost
<ogra> right, but its still a specific audience 
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<highvoltage> JaneW: noted
<cbx33> i think we're pretty well organised in structure terms...
<JaneW> and I know there is an intention to start pushing into that market space more strongly
<cbx33> at least everone know whos in charge of the most important things
<highvoltage> i think there's lots of plans, it just needs to be implemented
<ogra> cbx33, we're getting there :)
<ogra> i'll urgently need more developer help in the future to realize all our ideas
* cbx33 wishes he could be that guy
<JaneW> I think the cook book may be a good test of commitment and being able to see something through
<jsgotangco> yes thats what i was about to say
<ogra> (read packager help)
<JaneW> yes and we need more dev help
* cbx33 will push himself to the limits for the project
* jsgotangco should stop procrastinating and push packages
<JaneW> it's been much harder to attract that here because it's niche and the users are not generally devs
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> as ogra know my initial reason for joing ubuntu was to earn packaging
<cbx33> learn
<highvoltage> or the people who want to do dev work are stretched to far as it is :p
<JaneW> ogra: can EC work with 4, or do we need to look for a 5th?
<cbx33> so i could become motu
<ogra> i see it improving but there is still room for MORE (to quote my boos on the phone ;) )
<cbx33> your boos ????
<cbx33> :p
<JaneW> ogra: ditto :P
<ogra> *boss
<highvoltage> "boos" in afrikaans = "evil"
<ogra> JaneW, yep, saw that *giggle*
<JaneW> highvoltage: hehe same thing
<cbx33> but i've slowly fallen back into doccing/web/wiki
<jsgotangco> cbx33: then excel on that don't rush it
<ogra> JaneW, EC can work with 4, will be harder to get consensus though 
* cbx33 resolves to redouble his efforts in all areas
<JaneW> also I have mailed the edubuntu install video guy, asking for permission to post it on our site, I'll let you know if/when he responds
<cbx33> nice
<JaneW> I think it helps to have that
<ogra> JaneW, also i hope canonical wont leave me alone with that ... i expect to at least have a manager aside
<ogra> who can take the 5th part
<JaneW> as it can be seen how easy and non-threatening an install is
<cbx33> hehe
<JaneW> ogra: right
<JaneW> ogra: ndz?
<highvoltage> geez, yeah this will just put more pressure on ogra :(
<JaneW> mdz I mean
<JaneW> sorry! :/
<ogra> JaneW, mdz taking your part ??
<cbx33> we'll just have to help out more than ever right ogra ?
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> i dont think so
<jsgotangco> he wouldnt even think of it
<ogra> cbx33, lets see what happens, JaneW is still here :D
<cbx33> of course :p
<mhz> JaneW: leaving???
<jsgotangco> naw let's push her out sooner
<cbx33> nooooooooooooooooooooo
* cbx33 hugs JaneW tight
* ogra hits jsgotangco with an edubuntu cake
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you are a meanie
* jsgotangco sulks more
* JaneW unvotes jsgotangco for paris :P
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> ogra: edubuntu all done for next week?
<jsgotangco> its pretty good
<JaneW> ogra: make the homie the default install ;)
<ogra> JaneW, apart from fighting the oversizedness
<ogra> haha
<JaneW> ogra: gah, still?
<highvoltage> ogra: he is right though
<ogra> sdilbs would kill me
* highvoltage just wants to be hit with an edubuntu cake too
<ogra> highvoltage, i have none left ... after release ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I may just have to make one for next week...
<cbx33> w00t
<jsgotangco> JaneW: don't worry, i will make sure dope wars and porn view get into the default for eft
<ogra> JaneW, well, pitti added 20 languages to powerpc yesterday ... that was a bit uhmm... much :)
<JaneW> yikes
<jsgotangco> JaneW: not to mention make sure the nude wallpapers from warty make a comeback
<JaneW> tell pitti to rest
<ogra> even i'd appreciate to have xhosa on the CD :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: have you been drinking?
<cbx33> I don;t think lisa would be happy about making a nude homies wallpaper :p
<JaneW> (again)
<JaneW> ogra: indeed
<ogra> but i dont think thats what our major audience speaks
<jsgotangco> JaneW: oh well *sigh*
<ogra> cbx33, compromise ... bathing dresses ;)
<cbx33> :
<cbx33> :0
<cbx33> ok....anything left on the agenda?
<ogra> agenda ? 
<cbx33> ESA has been frozen
<cbx33> the informal agenda :p
<jsgotangco> really?
<ogra> hey, its informal :)
<cbx33> jsgotangco: yup
<jsgotangco> did you lace it with strawberries and nuts
<cbx33> not yet
<cbx33> I'm leaving that for when i port it to scribus
<JaneW> cbx33: I think the ESA is going to be very valuable
<cbx33> currently working it up to go on the website
<ogra> it already is :)
<cbx33> oh yeh that's what I meant to say... highvoltage there' a problem uploading images to the website
<JaneW> indeed
<JaneW> oh wait
<mhz> cbx33: ESa ready for translation?
<JaneW> who is going to be official meeting **Reminder** person?
<JaneW> it's a crucial job :P
<cbx33> but , we have to decide what's going to happen with the translated versions
* jsgotangco whistles while walking away
<ogra> JaneW, me for now
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> i'm around anyway all the time :)
<cbx33> we spoke aobut putting ESA into rosetta
<JaneW> ogra: ok, but do delegate whenever you can
<ogra> will do
<JaneW> ogra: the more responsibility you give the more time you will have, and the more help we'll have!
* cbx33 thinks of what the name is for a delagatee.......hmm....oh yeh...i remember minion
<ogra> JaneW, yep, but thats really a trivial job and i have to be around in the meetings :)
<JaneW> ogra: sure
* mhz tries to understand why he makes 2 questions and get no answer...hmmm.
<jsgotangco> mhz: try it in spanish
<JaneW> also don;t forget reminding the fridge folk about calendar changes
<ogra> mhz, <cbx33> we spoke aobut putting ESA into rosetta
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe
<JaneW> for instance I forgot to ask them to remove this one
<ogra> you had at least one answer
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you ok? You seem annoyed
<jsgotangco> :/
<mhz> ogra: thx.. that was quick... for a moment I thought I was having more ISP probs.
<jsgotangco> JaneW: a cluebat would be nice
<JaneW> I'll be watching edubuntu climbing the distrowatch charts
<ogra> mhz, and yes JaneW is leaving (to answer the other one)
<cbx33> you bet
<mhz> ogra: sniff :/
<ogra> yep
<ogra> :(((((
<JaneW> it's doing great already and 6.06 hasn't even released
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> we're making an impact
<JaneW> this time next year edubuntu in all schools!
<cbx33> it's here already :p
<mhz> JaneW: not fair... we need at least one woman... a diff prespective is essential among geeks :)  And  we only have an edubuntu girl
<cbx33> youthlug love it
<jsgotangco> mhz: don't worry, i can create a new feminine nick for my use
<dave-YL> second that
<mhz> JaneW: and EC with a woman participation looked very very cool
<ogra> we're at place 64 on distrowatch for the 6 months view btw
<cbx33> that's all gonna change
<JaneW> mhz: even if that woman is quite a geek as well?
<cbx33> heheh
<mhz> jsgotangco: but ... it wont be the same... you are not sexy :)
* jsgotangco gives mhz a karate chop
<mhz> JaneW: sure! it is still a diff perspective... a very needed one.
<pips1> LOL
<mhz> jsgotangco: LOL
<pips1> jsgotangco, what's the matter with you today?
<ogra> jsgotangco, but he's right ...
* cbx33 will try to get lisa in on IRC
* JaneW is going to miss Mao so much
<ogra> jsgotangco, (compared to JaneW )
<mhz> jsgotangco: and do you at least make good cakes? uh?
<jsgotangco> :/
<JaneW> and drinking BOFs
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> with amarula !
<JaneW> yes!
<mhz> JaneW: well, I hope it is for your best
<JaneW> everyone has to drink amarula for me
* ogra will do that 
<cbx33> :p
<JaneW> or gold tequila if they prefer
* highvoltage likes amarula
<cbx33> diet coke
* mhz only likes Cahipirina
<cbx33> that's more dangerous to me :p
* ogra prefers good scotch
<pips1> JaneW, your announcement does come quite as a surprise... can't help to wonder... 
<cbx33> heheh
<mhz> JaneW: and do you 'need' to leave? (just wondering)
* jsgotangco can take anything at the moment
<JaneW> mhz: mojito!
<mhz> jsgotangco: yeah, blood and brain do need some rest
<mhz> ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz: its 9pm i just arrived home, logged it not even eating dinner now i have lost apetite
<jsgotangco> s/apetite/appetite
<cbx33> :(
<JaneW> pips1: nothing sinister, but the long and odd hours are very difficult to juggle with a family, plus frequent intl travel
<mhz> jsgotangco: how about a warm nice tea?
<mhz> JaneW: what if it were mre family friendly?
<mhz> mre = more
<ogra> mhz, but that company *isnt* family frinedly
<ogra> you have to travel a lot
<jsgotangco> i'd say
<ogra> stay up for mandantory meetings at 4am etc
<JaneW> mhz: yes
<JaneW> the distro team is basically 24/7
<JaneW> and that's hard to keep up with, I don;t know how ogra does it
<ogra> i have on RL
<ogra> s/on/no/
<mhz> ogra: JaneW: and then, are you sure there is no way to work it out? no assistants? is leaving the only option?
<ogra> which needs to change soon since i have to move and to cope with some big changes here
<mhz> cope is germany?
<cbx33> ogra: big changes ?
<ogra> cbx33, already ongoing 
<cbx33> I know the feeling
<ogra> my GFs mother dies some time ago and we inherited a big house and a handicapped brother 
<ogra> s/dies/died
<JaneW> anyway I have loved working here, even through the low times, because the high times have been phenomenal
<pips1> ogra, wow, big changes indeed
<cbx33> ogra: our thoughts are with you
<JaneW> and during the trips it becomes my life 24/7 and it;s amazing, but at home I have very real responsibilities and they tend to get neglected atm
<ogra> JaneW, and we all have loved working with you ... if you plan to come back in oct, i'll fight for you ;)
<spacey> damn forgot the meeting
<JaneW> ogra: yes I hope you and GF and mother are coping ok...?
<_michel> help: howto make an icon for floppy on the desktop
<JaneW> ogra: thanks :) You made my job 'easy'
<ogra> JaneW, mother isnt anymore :)
<_michel> which mount floppy automatically
<spacey> someone saying goodbye?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think you should show JaneW that drawing
<ogra> _michel, #ubuntu ... here is a meeting going on
<ogra> spacey, JaneW 
<pips1> _michel, there is an inofficial meeting going on, you might get more replies a bit later
<spacey> oh
<spacey> where to and why?
<JaneW> ogra: omg I am sorry that was an awful typo, was meant to be BROTHER
<ogra> heh
<mhz> ogra: and I am sure, we ALL will suppor that fighting!
<cbx33> highvoltage: yeh?
<JaneW> ogra: sorry that was very insensitive (unintentionally)
<ogra> we'll cope with it ...
<highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, i think now would be good :)
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/jane.jpg - hop you like it JaneW 
* JaneW checks
<ogra> (rather my GF will cope with it, i only have to take all the housekeeping parts)
<ogra> mhz, yeah 
<jsgotangco> tomb raider look???
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> highvoltage said you were an all round action adventurer :p
<ogra> cbx33, wow, that matches pretty close 
<jsgotangco> she almst got into fear factor
<JaneW> LMAo - I WISH!
<highvoltage> cbx33: it was part of a surprise wallpaper cbx33 was cooking up, with the edubuntu team in it ;)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and I didn;t get into survivor it seems :(
<ogra> haha
<cbx33> you say I, you really mean lisa :p
* JaneW would LOVE thighs like that
<highvoltage> s/cbx33/lisa :)
<cbx33> heheh
* highvoltage seriously gets back to work...
<JaneW> but that doesn;t happen sitting behind a desk for 10+ hours day
<cbx33> later highvoltage :p
<mhz> ogra: hehe, well, I can tell you that I have been taking all the housekeeping part for last 4 years... not fun at all (never got used to it) but it is not the end of the world (as we know it :D )
<jsgotangco> i do that a lot
<mhz> ogra: we can cheer you when needed :)
* ogra wonders if her new job will eat less than 10+h 
<highvoltage> well, apparently people at vodacom eat a lot
<highvoltage> they all get fat there
<jsgotangco> yay
<ogra> mhz, the hard part is that i dont get *any* sleep anymore, the nurse service for my "brother in law" is comoing at 7am
<ogra> i wouldnt mid to do all housekeeping ...
<cbx33> ogra: you never used to sleep did you?
<highvoltage> my one friend was always skinny. we used to make fun of him because of that. he started working at vodacom 3 months ago and is already getting fat.
<ogra> *mind
* cbx33 gets about 5 hours now
* highvoltage seriously, seriously gets back to work and ^A D's
<JaneW> highvoltage: what?
<ogra> cbx33, my rhythm is to sleep from 4am to 10-11am ... cant do that anymore, thats quite hindering
<JaneW> highvoltage: no!
<cbx33> yikes
<pips1> highvoltage, hehe
<cbx33> i sleep from about 12midnight to 5:30 am
<JaneW> cbx33: wow
<ogra> and my GF falls asleep at 9pm now ... so we dont meet much anymore even we are in the same house/bed
<jsgotangco> i sleep from 1 to 6
<pips1> cbx33, insane
<mhz> ogra: ooops, then, WE need to figure out a way to help you more and work together more closely... (/me still has no idea how... he has not the IT knowledge required but he'll try to bring more help from chilean friend... it is just they are so afraid of english speaking :( )
<pips1> jsgotangco, same
<JaneW> I sleep from 11-12 till 7.
<alfredn> install trouble is this a good place to ask a question
<jsgotangco> pips1: then have a day job from 8 to 6 then some home job from 9 to 11
<pips1> jsgotangco, wooooaah
<ogra> alfredn, edubuntu install (here is a meeting going on, you'll have to wait a bit)
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> cbx33: it's ok, I can take it, i just crash and burn every few months
<JaneW> ogra: I think we are done...
<jsgotangco> then the home job extends further in the weekend depending on what i can think (and write)
<pips1> jsgotangco, ok, now I understand your mood today ;-)
<JaneW> anything else?
<ogra> JaneW, will you stay around in the channel ? 
<cbx33> not that I can think of.....big thank you to everyone who helped with ESA
<JaneW> yes
<mhz> alfredn: yes.. sure. Is it about edubuntu?
<ogra> :D
<JaneW> ogra: but I need to sort out Paris delegates and SoC stuff etc
* mhz had to ask.. you know
<ogra> JaneW, i maent after that ;)
<cbx33> <!-----------------------notes end here------------------------------>
<JaneW> ogra:oic
<mhz> JaneW: I'd be happy to be in Paris :D
* ogra should have asked "will we see you here during edgy"
* jsgotangco goes out for a smoke
<JaneW> ogra: yes I hope so
* mhz had to say it
<JaneW> mhz: me too
<ogra> great :)
<pips1> JaneW, what's officially going to be the last day?
<ogra> jsgotangco, good idea !
<JaneW> ogra: I am certainly going to try to visit often
<ogra> :))
<JaneW> pips1: still being discussed with mngmt
<alfredn> Thanks: Yes, new install freezes on booting off the cdrom, the cd checks fine in cd check, the thing is I have a scsi card adaptec 2940 and a scsi drive for the system.  I tried on an another machine with the same problem
<jsgotangco> ogra: im pretty upset (very) but i understand
<ogra> jsgotangco, about what are you upset (i didnt get it=
<ogra> )
* mhz had to say it/
<mhz> jsgotangco: anything we can do to ease the 'upset part' in you?
<mhz> alfredn: hmm, let me understand... your CD drive is scsi?
<ogra> oh, job stuff
<ogra> alfredn, live or install CD ?
<alfredn> mhz: sorry, no the cdrom is ide the harddrive for the system is scsi
<mhz> ooh
<alfredn> mhz:no it is not a live cd I think it is called casper?
<ogra> casper is the core part of the liveCD
<ogra> how much ram does that machine have ? 
<alfredn> ogra:Hello, the machine has 500 plus, it is running dapper now but I want to 
<alfredn> switch from ide to scsi and a clean install was my hopes
<alfredn> bty:
<ogra> if you see casper, you have a liveCD 
<alfredn> I downloaded the cd yesterday from the first link on the edu site
<mhz> alfredn: sorry, I have not yet tested liveCD (
<ogra> oh, thats even outdated 
<ogra> try one of these http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<alfredn> this is the link I used. http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edubuntu-6.06-beta2-live-i386.iso
<alfredn> is there any chance it will work or should I get the other?
<ogra> get the other 
<ogra> (indeed there is a chance it works ok, but its ~1 month outdated)
<mhz> cbx33: well, I wouldn;t mind meeting a geek girl like that :D (but a woman's version) http://www.progbox.co.uk/jane.jpg 
<ogra> mhz, you never met JaneW eh ? its *very* similar
<alfredn> Alright I will go download the other be back in a bit, BTY is there any probs with scsi and install
<alfredn> can I pass any boot parameters
* cbx33 's wife is a little bit geeky though she wouldn't admit it.
<JaneW> ogra: not true, she is not clutching a bottle of amarula
<ogra> true :)
<JaneW> or whielding a whip
<cbx33> she plays LAN games of CS when everynow and then
<mhz> ogra: I have seen pictures and NOPE, I was not comparing at all. It would be nice to meet "more girls" like that in a woman's version (I prefer women over girls) :D
<cbx33> and is an ace web designer
<ogra> alfredn, it should *just work*
<alfredn> ogra:alright I will download the other, 
<jsgotangco> or wearing a nurse costume
<ogra> JaneW, i was expecting the whip to be on the belt behind her back ;)
<jsgotangco> or fishnet stockings
<mhz> jsgotangco: lol!!! you are back!!
<ogra> jsgotangco, hehe
<jsgotangco> mhz: my laptop has wireless i can smoke outside
<mhz> cool
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I will think of you when I wear my nurse outfit
<mhz> and JaneW, if you look like that in person...then DONT LEAVE!!
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> do i look sick???
<pips1> jsgotangco, overworked?
<mhz> jsgotangco: nope, you dont look, you ARE :)
<pips1> hehe
<jsgotangco> or someone you can abuse with your medical equipment?
<pips1> I hope we never get any school children wandering into this channel...
<jsgotangco> pips1: yep, people don't believe it since i work in the games industry, but debugging games all day can be boring
<ogra> mhz, she does ... (she even looks better than the drawing ;) )
<pips1> jsgotangco, i see
<mhz> ogra: then we gotta clone her
<ogra> yeah
<mhz> ogra: you know how hard it is to get rally sexy geek girls
<mhz> really
<pips1> jsgotangco, online games?
<mhz> and who makes good cakes!
<jsgotangco> pips1: online, console, mobile
<ogra> yep
<mhz> .oO(we'll lose too much)
<JaneW> ogra: *blush* thanks - flattery will get you everywhere!
<jsgotangco> pips1: im currently doing online
<pips1> jsgotangco, I'm just reading this article about closed vs. open source development...
<ogra> JaneW, :)
* pips1 goes to find the url
<jsgotangco> pips1: we're very much closed at the moment :/
<jsgotangco> pips1: but most ofthe backend stuff runs on linux
<mhz> cbx33: so, if i translate from wiki version into spanish wiki syntax... is it still ok with you?
<mhz> (plnas)
<mhz> plans
<pips1> http://www.armchairarcade.com/aamain/content.php?article.78
<cbx33> mhz: hold fire for a while
<pips1> but I suppose you know the story pretty much
<cbx33> I'm still finding out what people want to do with it
* jsgotangco reads
<mhz> cbx33: hmmm, I would say that it works for dapper
<cbx33> yeh it does
<cbx33> but we need ot decide what are you going to do with the translated versions
<cbx33> as great as it will be....what use will it serve?
<cbx33> don;t get me wrong
<cbx33> I want you to translate them
<jsgotangco> pips1: the model isn't applicable to consoles due to IP reasons (as well as hw manufacturers taking profit from devkits)
<cbx33> but something someone said to me makes me think...I want to have place for it before you put all that hard work into it
<jsgotangco> the DS devkit that we bought before was really expensive
<pips1> console = closed by definition almost
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> online has better chances
<pips1> yes
<jsgotangco> mobile not so much either due to carriers wanting a slice always
<pips1> hmm, interesting, i didn't know that
<jsgotangco> the greediest in the mobile content space are record companies
<pips1> ring tones, eh
<jsgotangco> real tones even
<pips1> well, nowadays, music as ring tones...
<jsgotangco> even if there would be revolution on commons content on the mobile space, the carrier will still earn from the transaction
<pips1> or do you mean "natural" recordings, e.g. a dog barking or smth?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> let's say a recording artist
<pips1> right
<jsgotangco> some content providers instead, use cover tones
<jsgotangco> (not the original artist but the same song)
<jsgotangco> so they only pay royalty to the song publisher
<jsgotangco> it is a very interesting industry that is in dire need of open content :)
<pips1> yeah... let's not talk about this too much, i'll have to leave this "open source dreamworld" otherwise ;-)
<jsgotangco> it would be interesting in the next 5 years when VoIP invades mobile (it is starting)
<jsgotangco> hence my obsession with asterisk lately
* mhz supports jsgotangco obsession
<mhz> cbx33: oh, sorry. I am on the phone
<cbx33> p
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> did you read what i wrote?
<cbx33> wish i was a studnet again.....with ooodles of time to work on edubuntu
<ogra> you could even have applied for SoC :)
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> it's so unfair
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: hello
<cbx33> heheh
<mhz> cbx33: re
<mhz> yeah, I read it
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: hi sorry i was out for a while
<mhz> cbx33: mainly, 2 things:
<cbx33> make sense
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: no problem, I'll probably be popping in and out
<jsgotangco> cool if you need to ask, just ask away or email
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: I'm very excited today.  I got my acceptance email this morning.
<mhz> cbx33: 1) Moin is my very good friend, it is a bit "scary" I use Moin for about 90% of my work (agenda, calendar, todo, biz quotes, planning, meeting records, etc) so, translate it via moin it is way faster for me than doing it via rosetta, plus I can take it with me as it is plain text in the end
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: I was just wondering what steps I need to go through to get started.  Any orientation of sorts?
<jsgotangco> mhz: freak of nature
<cbx33> mhz: i know what you mean
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, yeah.
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: not so much at the moment, let's wait for the formal announcement for Ubuntu, but if you want to do some advance work and share, feel free we can look on it
<mhz> jsgotangco: if only I could use Moin to impact emails into it... that would be fantastic: "According to OurLastMeetingAgenda and considering [blablabla this email]  we would like to propose... "
<mhz> MoinMailClient/Server
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: any idea when the formal announcement will come?
<mhz> To: MarkShuttleworth   |   Subject: MeetingRecord20060524
<cbx33> hehehe
<ogra> ryan_rousseau, likely this week
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: JaneW is sorting it as we speak, probably this week
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco, ogra: thanks!
<jsgotangco> amd64 workstation check
<mhz> ogra: 2 more tests yesterday: 1 default install (diff hardware)   1 upgrade from BETA version to daily
<mhz> ogra: only issues I got were Gcompris
<mhz> cbx33: 2) ESA would be great notice text for media coverage here in Chile 
<mhz> and good "translation work" to start motivating more spanish speakers to do smething for edubuntu
<ogra> mhz, gcompris ?
<mhz> ogra: yeah, it closes down, no warning
<ogra> can you file a bug, its the second time i hear that
<mhz> and unfortunatelly, I wont get back to that lab until tomorrow
<ogra> sad, thats to late
<mhz> so I didnt get the output
<mhz> ogra: yeah, sorry
<ogra> also please note what you tested on the wikipage
<mhz> I got that problem around 22 PM and they were kicking me out of the lab :)
<mhz> ogra: what you mean?  "you tested on the wikipage"
<mhz> (that's why I'd love to test and have a home-lab)
<ogra> please note your findings on the wiki, our QA manager needs that
<mhz> oooh, yeah! sure
<jsgotangco> amd64 auto partition check
<mhz> I have been taking notes on paper so I wiki them
<ogra> only what you tested... no notes required
<ogra> add it to the table
<mhz> jsgotangco: my 'trying-to-use-Moin-in-Jornada728' failed :(
<mhz> so I use paper :(
<jsgotangco> mhz: please have pity on such poor hardware
<mhz> ogra: okis, i see the diff
<mhz> jsgotangco: my only hope is Zaurus SL-5500.. but.. battery lasts 2 hours and I have no other battery available to even buy one
<jsgotangco> i have apache/php/mysql running on my zaurus before
<mhz> yeah, me too
<mhz> it rocked
<jsgotangco> so you can actually run mediawiki on it
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> moin is my choice
<jsgotangco> mhz: its ok to flirst sometimes
<jsgotangco> flirt
<mhz> .o(though mediawiki sounds interesting...but still power issue)
<mhz> and Opie is always freezing my Zaurus
<mhz> now I remember why bought the jornada ... I could use Debian there
<mhz> but then I need 1 GB CF :D
<mhz> more expensive than getting a Zaurus battery :D
<jsgotangco> i can't remember who is compiling ubuntu for arm here...
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> I asked around, and found a wiki page too
<mhz> cbx33: well, those are moy 2 points
<mhz> my
<JaneW> I will send out SoC announcements tomorrow I have realised that I'll have to catch up on all the admin ML posts before I can risk sending anything out
<JaneW> students are welcome to start communicating with their mentors
<JaneW> I will send out SoC announcements tomorrow I have realised that I'll have to catch up on all the admin ML posts before I can risk sending anything out
<JaneW> students are welcome to start communicating with their mentors
<cbx33> I hate teh way I can't work from the car
* cbx33 wants GPRS
<jsgotangco> expensive tsk
<cbx33> yeh i know
<mhz> cbx33: you can at least work.. some people dont even have/get a chance to produce (dont have means or ideas how) work 
<cbx33> but so much of what I can do I can't do when i have the time
<mhz> cbx33: yeah, been there
<mhz> cbx33: those are good times to think about stuff and or meditate :)
<cbx33> right you guys I'm shatterd I'm off home
<cbx33> phew
<jsgotangco> heh im just starting my night
<jsgotangco> (its 10:30pm)
<cbx33> heh, 3:41 here
<cbx33> home time
<jsgotangco> oh boy i wish that was my home time
<jsgotangco> (home time for me is 6pm)
<jsgotangco> ogra: i was wondering did our paid artist also has gdm artwork in his scope of work?
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> doh
<ogra> only one wallpaper and one splash
<jsgotangco> doh x2
<ogra> (even though a usplash was planned)
<ogra> but we took a community one ;)
<jsgotangco> ogra: gee honestly that wallpaper can be easily done by community imo
<jsgotangco> (or much even better)
<ogra> which intrestingly was later voted as the best by the artteam
<jsgotangco> the splash was good though
<ogra> silbs didnt trust us, mark and silbs both thought edubuntugirl was a bad ide 
<ogra> a
<ogra> so we should get something "professional" this time
<pips1_> ogra, I think it's a good non-intrusive default wallpaper, slightly cold though, I agree
<pips1_> and we got the gang, of course, which is very cool :)
<ogra> someone called it the "berlin wall" which is a very good name imho :P
<pips1_> LOL
* ogra wont reveral that *someone*
<ogra> :)
<pips1_> no, the berlin wall was even more colorful ;-)
<pips1_> (on the western, side, anyway)
<pygi> we lost some nice applications :(
<pips1_> pygi, which ones?
<ogra> lost ? 
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> how ?
<ogra> search them if you lost them !
<pygi> ogra, duplication of students (were accepted by several orgs)
<ogra> but thats not *lost*
<ogra> they do still the same but for another org
* jsgotangco thinks if we show this wallpaper to the OLPC it won't even get voted
<pygi> no, it doesnt have to mean they do the same
<pygi> they mostly do other work, not this one
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/ has fixed isos finally
<pygi> nice ...
<pygi> and ogra, sorry for bothering the other day...I know you were busy :)
<ogra> pygi, i'm still busy :) sorry for being harsh
<pygi> busy until forever :-P
<pygi> no problem at all, no worries :)
<ogra> nah only until next week 
<pips1_> ogra, any testing that is particularly important at this moment?
<ogra> as everyone in the distro team
<pips1_> (besides testing everything)
<ogra> nobody gets enough sleep currently etc
<pygi> ogra, not enough sleep is always good :)
<ogra> pips1_, everything is fine :)
<pips1_> hehe
<ogra> just fill that wikipage to make sfllaw happy ;)
<ogra> so it seems we have room for more languages on the liveCD, any suggestions anybody ?
<pygi> ogra, Croatian? :)
<pips1_> duh, wiki: The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only.
<pips1_> ah, now it works
<pygi> jsgotangco, forgot to officialy congrats you...so congrats :)
<jsgotangco> you too :)
<pygi> thanks :)
<pygi> ogra, any chance on croatian on livecd if we have space then? :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, let's make it rock :)
<alfredn> ogra: you where right about using the new cdrom, why does the edu site default to the live one
<alfredn> thanks
<ogra> alfredn, that page is a bit premature ;) it will point to the released iso on release day
<ogra> pygi, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt croatian (hr if i'm right) is *really huge*
<pygi> ogra, ah,oki, thanks for checking it anyway :)
<ogra> so lets see if amd64 survives the addition of german and french now ...
<pygi> ogra, good luck :P
<jsgotangco> nooooooooooooooooo
<ogra> jsgotangco, ?
<ogra> dont worry, i can revert :)
<jsgotangco> heh i will just rsync later and see
<ogra> jsgotangco, *if* it survives and we still have space left, any suggestions for one or two asian languages i should add ?
<jsgotangco> i'd probably go to hangeul (korean) which is close to my heart
<jsgotangco> but the chinese might get pissed
<ogra> we currently have en, fr, es, de on the liveCD 
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i will ask how good is the support for -ko
<ogra> chinese means at least 3 extra languages i think
<jsgotangco> that's correct
<jsgotangco> i would really go for korean heh
<ogra> i'll flip a coin i think
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> if you put chinese, you're facing 3 languages
<jsgotangco> if you add japanese, you'll have to put some chinese fonts
<jsgotangco> but if you put korean, you're adding a language of its own
<ogra> we have all the asian fonts in anyway
<ogra> so its only about language packs
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> korea has a very active gnome community as well
<ogra> i'm only intrested in the edubuntu community :P
<pygi> ogra, which is currently not so big :-/
<highvoltage> pygi: you'd be surprised ;)
<jsgotangco> its changing here actually
<jsgotangco> its just not widely spoken of
<pygi> ah, we have just two schools here in Croatia on Linux
* jsgotangco thinks that should change
<pygi> one of them implemented by me
<ogra> pygi, i think we have more than 5000 pre orders on shipit already
<pygi> and that is Edubuntu
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> ogra, we can order edubuntu?
* pygi wonders where
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> shipit.edubuntu.org
<ogra> pygi, /topic
<pygi> o joy, thanks :)
<pygi> and btw. there will be a ubuntu conf. at Hungary in September probably, so I'll have a presentation about Edubuntu if you don't oppose :)
* jsgotangco didn't order yet, but hoping some can be delivered in paris?
<ogra> pygi, and i know that ivoks runs several ubuntu based school or uni setups
<ogra> in croatia
<ogra> pygi, great !
<pygi> uni setups, indeed
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'll ask silbs
<pygi> ah, just 5 CD's :-P
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> its a very limited market
<pygi> How am I supposed to bring some to that conf? :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: schools?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: education?
<ogra> pygi, there will be a possibility to order more (read the front page ;) )
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: over here, yes, i know a local city that mandated its use on its public schools
* pygi reads
<jsgotangco> (even at the city mayor's office)
* jsgotangco should visit that place sometime
* pygi is blind, and doesnt see nothing :P
* pygi reads FAQ
<ogra> :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, 
<ogra> ogra: we always try to get CDs for the dev summit and it is always very very very close. It has always worked in the past, but we are also getting way more dapper requests than for other releases. So no promises, but we are trying to have some there
<ogra> from silbs ^^
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> thanks
<pygi> We have not yet opened the custom request section of ShipIt for version 6.06 LTS, but will do so shortly.
<pygi> :)
<ogra> yep
* pygi gave away all of his cd's first hour when he got them last release
<jsgotangco> i get CD requests from email...they thought i can send CDs
<jsgotangco> (locally)
<pygi> jsgotangco, nice :)
* pygi just got that one today :P
<jsgotangco> I even got email from a guy who wanted to contribute a wallpaper/artwork, but when I told him about the license, he decided not to reply back 
<pygi> hey Andrea
<Bluekuja> hello pygi
<Bluekuja> :)
<Bluekuja> i solved that problem
<pygi> how are you? :)
<Bluekuja> I'm really good tnx, you?
<pygi> nice, congrats :)
<pygi> I am great indeed :-D
<Bluekuja> hehe, not tired as alwais?
* pygi is sorry for not really having time to look at it :-/
<pygi> nah, not really :)
<Bluekuja> np man, i know that you're busy
<Bluekuja> mario, i need to finish some work on a package, you'll be here later?
<pygi> no, probably not today :-/
<pygi> but send me the package, and what you need
<pygi> what needs checking?
<Bluekuja> testing it
<Bluekuja> i mean installing it check if its all ok and unstalling it 
<pygi> ah, that should be no problem
<pygi> send me to mail
<Bluekuja> oki perfect
<Bluekuja> have a nice day then
<jsgotangco> good night guys
<Bluekuja> :)
<jsgotangco> its past midnight already
<jsgotangco> :/
<Bluekuja> ciao jerome
<Bluekuja> goodnigt
<pygi> night jsgotangco 
<blue-frog> what's that thing you're talking about in Paris, a show? When is it held, pls?
<Burgwork> blue-frog, it is the next Ubuntu development conference
<Burgwork> end of June
<blue-frog> oh so it's only ubuntu staff?
<Burgwork> and kubuntu/edubuntu/xubuntu
<blue-frog> i mean is it public?
<blue-frog> for non ubuntu members, non canonicals?
<ogra> yes
<blue-frog> can i read that somewhere on ubuntu site?
<ogra> but its mostly for writing specs and the like, no public stuff like talks or anything
<blue-frog> hum ok
<ogra> blue-frog, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
<blue-frog> ty
<Burgwork> blue-frog, it is one week of sweaty geeks talking a lot and drinking a lot
<blue-frog> understood
<blue-frog> ogra later on you told me there was no icons for gimp and thunder hence the fact that defaults one were assigned but I found icons in the gartoons folder though (/usr/share/icons/gartoon/scalable/apps
<ogra> blue-frog, yes, i see them, but there are no small ones
<ogra> only the svg's
<blue-frog> aren't the svg supposed to be done for that purpose, reduce the number of icons as they are scalable?
<ogra> and you cant scale svg down to 16x16 or 24x24 it looks awful
<blue-frog> ah ok
<ogra> so you'd have to create manually the 16x16 and 24x24 variants with thicker lines etc
<blue-frog> but then how come firefox is taken for example?
<ogra> sad that you reported it today, since i cant do anything about it now 
<blue-frog> am not sure i understand where those icons are taken then
<ogra> ff will likely have a bitmap version for smaller sizes
<ogra> (i havent looked and i'm to busy to get the RC isos done currently)
<michel> how can we put an icon on the display for edubuntu
<michel> we are in cameroon we want to use edubuntu but we have many difficulties
<blue-frog> what do you mean by putting an icon on the display michel?
<cbx33> ogra, man you got a sec
<cbx33> just a quick query
<ogra> but a very short one please
<cbx33> with all this wiki movement business going on, 
<cbx33> what's ahppening with LTSP
<ogra> keep it
<cbx33> you said we're moving that to Ubuntu
<cbx33> so is it moving into edubuntu?
<ogra> its far from being complete for d.u.c
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> no problem
<ogra> no, just keep it so we can complete it on the wiki
<cbx33> shall i move out all the category documentation from all ltsp documentation?
<ogra> no matter where its kept 
<cbx33> I'll remove CategoryDocumentation from them all
<cbx33> so they don;t get ported
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> I'll let you get back to it
<ogra> probably add a new category for them loke DocInProgress
<ogra> *like
<ogra> Burgwork, might know or mdke ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ping Burgwork 
<michel> blie-frog we need a short cut icon for the floppy disk drive on the desktop
<ogra> just drag it out of the "computer" location ...
<cbx33> do you need to hold ctrl to copy it ogra >
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> dinner
<ogra> cbx33, not for the computer location ;)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: choose upload new edubuntu theme even though it's not 100% done yet or not
<edubuntugirl> I choose upload new edubuntu theme even though it's not 100% done yet, highvoltage
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> yay
<blue-frog> michel did you manage to do it as per ogra'sindication?
<ogra> hmm, sindication ... :)
<ogra> measuring of your sins :)
<blue-frog> :0)
<blue-frog> well am gonna eat but can't leave without a last thing on icons :)
<blue-frog> properties of a launcher, choose icon >> doesn't let me choose anything else than xpm or png, can't choose svg for example..
<blue-frog> no am drunk again sry
<Burgwork> cbx33, what do you need?
<blue-frog> works perfectly
<ogra> yep
<ogra> Burgwork, we dont want to have our wiki docs moved, how can we prevent that
<Burgwork> ogra, remove them from cat doc
<ogra> (but we want to keep them categorized as docs in some way)
<Burgwork> add a new cat CategoryEdubuntuDocumentation
<ogra> cbx33, ^^^
<ogra> Burgwork, sounds sane 
<Burgwork> I would seriously recommend that you move your own docs off the wiki at some point as well
<ogra> there is simply too much WIP still for most of them
<highvoltage> cbx33: any chance that you can send me individual images of the gangstakids?
<ogra> Burgwork, sure if they are finished, but we have a help category in the drupal setup where we wanted to have our docs on www.edubuntu.org some day
<ogra> Burgwork, and ubuntu/edubuntu covering doc stuff like LTSP docs are still WIP and need a lot of work
<ogra> (also i'm not happy at all about the decision to put docs in a closed environment like docs.ubuntu.com, makes collaboration pretty hard)
<highvoltage> ogra: where does that decision come from?
<ogra> highvoltage, docteam :(
<highvoltage> ogra: i mean, did they decide on a docs.edubuntu.org too?
<highvoltage> i'm not against the docs.edubuntu.org, if it means that it's not closed, as you say
<ogra> nope, not to my knowledge
<ogra> well, contributions can only happen through svn
<ogra> which is not even a versioning system we use anywhere else in ubuntu
<ogra> if i have a say on edubuntu docs we'll have them in bazaar
<highvoltage> sounds good
<highvoltage> then it can integrate with launchpad too
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i never understood the decision for svn... but then, i'm not in the doc team :)
<highvoltage> i think doc people like svn
<highvoltage> (not just ubuntu docteam, but doc people in general)
<ogra> might be :)
<highvoltage> this is depressing. the new theme does the same on the canonical server :/
<highvoltage> seems to be a problem with the php version on breezy
<highvoltage> i'm going to get znarl to give us another db, so that we can revert to the old site
<highvoltage> then when the server is upgraded to dapper, we can use the new theme
<Burgwork> ogra, the decision for svn was made a long time and it does make sense for us
<Burgwork> we have a big build infrastructure that is shared amongst all the various projects and it would not make sense to split that up
<ogra> Burgwork, i know when it was taken 
<ogra> we have a big infrastructure based on bazaar as well for all other distro parts ;) 
<Burgwork> yep, but doc toolchain is kind of unique
<ogra> but indeed its our decision and if it makes sense for you *shrug*
<Burgwork> we recognize that svn makes it hard to do certain thing
<Burgwork> things, even
<ogra> yes, like getting cotributions from developers :P
<Burgwork> yep
<ogra> (who are all used to bzr ;) )
<Burgwork> but it does make it easy to build the docs into various forms
<ogra> yep
<Burgwork> the major issue we currently have with svn is that we don't directly control access to it
<Burgwork> we need elmo to add somebody
<ogra> i wonder how the supermirror will cope with that
<cbx33> Burgwork, I hear ya on that one :p
<cbx33> highvoltage, I can get individual images.....want them on a white background?
<cbx33> ogra, I'll add a new category
<cbx33> wow three messages to three different peole :p
<ogra> multitaksing :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: white would be ok. transparent would be better :)
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> I'll ask
<cbx33> png?
<highvoltage> png is cool
<pips1> highvoltage, I can chat now, but only for about 30 mins (we have guests coming over)
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you wanna have a chat in a while about the web/wiki plan?
<highvoltage> pips1: ok, no rush though :)
<cbx33> he's in demand tonight
<highvoltage> cbx33: would be great, since:
<pips1> :)
<highvoltage> (a) pips1 is here
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> (b) i'm writing to edubuntu-devel list about it :)
<cbx33> excellent
<highvoltage> wiki is really #1 priority, since it's very messy
<cbx33> let hte first wikiwed meeting commence :p
<pips1> well, its a meeting then! :-)
<highvoltage> cbx33: where's the 'cleanup' page again? have you gotten to the new mockup front-page?
<cbx33> ok, let's start by what are we doing at the mo
<cbx33> ok hang on
<highvoltage> wikiwed... cool :)
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuWikiMock
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> I'm also on this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLTSP
<cbx33> currently moving ESA to drupal
<cbx33> but highvoltage there is a problem uploading fiels
<cbx33> don;t know if you saw that I said that earlier
<highvoltage> cbx33: nope
<pips1> cbx33, what is the problem with files? what do you want to do?
<cbx33> i tried to add all the images for ESA
<highvoltage> cbx33: but i'm logged in there now, can you go there so that we can fix it now?
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> I went to files attachments
<cbx33> and got an error
* pips1 also has a look
<highvoltage> cbx33: very nice mock-up frontpage
<cbx33> ty, not 100% finished
<cbx33> need to put link to my new minutes page
<highvoltage> what still needs to be done? it looks really neat
<cbx33> I wanted to add some more contacts possibly
<cbx33> and add some development info
<pips1> cbx33, where do you want to add files in drupal?
<pips1> (I'm logged in now)
<highvoltage> ogra: do we still need the development status on the edubuntu wiki frontpage? it seems depricated
<cbx33> into the edubuntu in schools document
<cbx33> highvoltage, that's what I think
<ogra> highvoltage, drop it
<highvoltage> cool
<pips1> highvoltage, you upgraded to drupal 4.7.0 ?
<cbx33> yes
<pips1> ah
<pips1> did you add any modules yet?
<highvoltage> cbx33: what's your ubuntu e-mail address again?
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, and it turns out it doesn't like breezy + any phptemplate themes :/
<cbx33> highvoltage, think we shuld standardise page titles wrt capital letters
<highvoltage> cbx33: what do you mean?
<highvoltage> on the wiki?
<cbx33> frequently asked questions
<cbx33> 	Edubuntu community
<cbx33> just me being fussy
<ogra> make it wiki style
<highvoltage> ah i see
<blue-frog> Michel comment va la mise en place d'edubuntu?
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, your right, there should be conformity
<pips1> highvoltage, yeah, the changed the default template engine in 4.7 :-/
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> and the new template works....
<cbx33> just not on canonical server
<highvoltage> cbx33: let's go with /WikiStylePageNames
<pips1> cbx33, i see
<highvoltage> cbx33: and keep the title inside the pages Proper Case Titles
<highvoltage> cbx33: that way we keep everyone happy :)
<cbx33> ok sure
<highvoltage> cbx33: it works fine on dapper though, as you pointed out :/
<pips1> highvoltage, what's the problem re breezy and drupal?
<pips1> versions of php/mysql?
<cbx33> highvoltage, mine was on breezy
<highvoltage> cbx33: you said it was on dapper?
<cbx33> nope it was breezy
<Burgwork> salut Amaranth 
<cbx33> i said it work on 4.7.0
<ere> I have a problem with LTSP and Ubuntu Dapper (regular ubuntu, not edubuntu). Sound works well with one thin client, but not with an old Compaq deskpro with a ESS1869 audio chip. The driver is not loaded when the client boots. lts.conf countains SOUND = Y, and sound works with the other client. How can I manually load the driver for ESS1869? (the sb module)
<highvoltage> hmmm... what can possibly be different on the edubuntu server?
<pips1> I would have thought that the versions of php/mysql on breezy should just work fine with 4.7.0
* pips1 checks
<highvoltage> ere: you need a MODULE_01 = sb
<highvoltage> in your lts.conf
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm not sure, would be nice...oooh?
<pips1> highvoltage, you tried to upgrade the drupal content, right? (rather than doing a complete new install from scratch)
<cbx33> had an idea
<highvoltage> pips1: i did it like they say you should in drupal docs. 1) basically do a new install, 2) point to database, 3) run /update.php
<pips1> right
<ere> highvoltage: I think I have tried that, how can I confirm that the module is really loaded?
<highvoltage> which worked fine locally, and on another remote server running FC5, but not on the edubuntu server :/
<pips1> hmm
<cbx33> highvoltage, I belive error reporting must be turned off
<cbx33> in php
<highvoltage> ere: you can 'sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd' on the server, and set a root password
<cbx33> what about turning it on for just drupal
<highvoltage> ere: then you can press ctrl+alt+f1 on a thin client, log on as root, and use lsmod
<cbx33> to see what the issue is?
<cbx33> I mean 4.7 is preferable is it not?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm not following you...
<ogra> ere, SOUND=Y works ? are you sure you are using ubuntus ltsp-server package ? 
<cbx33> well, you can set php environment variables in a php script
<ogra> (its not supposed to work with Y)
<cbx33> my idea was to add a line o the drupal install to show us the error
<ere> ogra: erhm, maybe it was something else, I don't remember exactly. I experiment with LTSP at work and not at home where I'm now. 
<ere> ogra: but I use ltsp-server
<ogra> ere, SOUN=True or SOUND=False are what we use in ubuntu ... a boolean variable should use boolean values ;)
<ogra> *SOUND=True indeed
<pips1> cbx33, yes, 4.7 is definitely preferable
<pips1> highvoltage, cbx33 so what are the problems with the drupal setup on the live server at the moment? a) theme broken b) file attachments don't work and what else?
<cbx33> that's it as far as I can see
<pips1> right
<highvoltage> cbx33: can you try uploading a file again? i've changed permissions. that should be a minor issue.
<highvoltage> the theme is a bit more important for me right now
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on
<pips1> re a) highvoltage what did you do to fix the theme?
<highvoltage> pips1: well, non of the phptemplate themes work on the live site, so right now we're using a very simple theme
<cbx33> done :p
<pips1> ah, got you
<highvoltage> pips1: i initially thought it was just the spreadfirefox theme that had some strange stuff in it, but then i noticed the same problems with friendselectric
<highvoltage> cbx33: done? the upload?
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> great
<pips1> you have to install the template engine
<pips1> ?
<highvoltage> pips1: any suggestions / ideas?
<pips1> hold on, I'm trying to remember what i did...
<pips1> you installed the phptemplate engine on 4.6 to be able to use spreadff, is that correct?
<cbx33> highvoltage, phptemplate is included by default I thought
<pips1> cbx33, it wasn't the default in 4.6, AFAIK
<cbx33> no but in 4.7 it should be
<pips1> yes
<cbx33> I thought I read...I'm not sure, but I think
<pips1> yes, I think you are right
<pips1> hmm, since I can look on the filesystem on the server, and since my own drupal install died with my harddisk (it was a crappy 5 years old hd), i'm walking a bit in the blind here
<pips1> s/since I can/since I can't
<highvoltage> sorry, lost my connection there
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<pips1> hmm, since I can't look on the filesystem on the server, and since my own drupal install died with my harddisk (it was a crappy 5 years old hd), i'm walking a bit in the blind here
<cbx33> well my drupal install is but a power button away
<highvoltage> well, it's not all that exciting :/ a standard drupal installation with a standard phptemplate theme
<pips1> I can only make blind guesses :-/ was drupal 4.7 installed *over* the same directory where drupal 4.6 was before? (that might explain a broken phptemplate install)
<cbx33> I thought highvoltage said he did a fresh install?
<pips1> cbx33, he did indeed
<pips1> sorry, just poking around in the blind ;-)
<pips1> oh dear
<pips1> highvoltage's connection is shaky
<cbx33> np pips1 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> highvoltage, happy for me to move UbuntuLTSPTour to UbuntuLTSP/Tour
<pips1> well, my guess is that the phptemplate install directory changed, since 4.7 now uses it by default, and that the "old" theme is pointing to the wrong directory, or smth. but as I said, this is just blind assumptions
<cbx33> true
* pips1 decides to install drupal 4.7 on his machine
<highvoltage> cbx33: i have some hardlinks to that, like a comment in launchpad that i can't change
* pips1 doesn't like making blind assumptions
<highvoltage> pips1: if you can instlal it on a breezy machine, that would be great
<cbx33> highvoltage, a redirect ok?
<pips1> on a breezy machine? oh, ok, I could do that. but I wanted to use my dapper test server. why do you want me to do it on breezy?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, that's cool then
<highvoltage> pips1: that's what's running on the edubuntu server. if you'd like to reproduce that environment, then a breezy server would be best. but if you want to install on dapper, nothing wrong with that either :)
<pips1> ok, I see
<cbx33> highvoltage, the only thing I can think of is addind something like
<cbx33> set(error,"E_ALL")
<cbx33> or what ever the command is
<cbx33> I fforget
<highvoltage> cbx33: where do i set that?
<cbx33> you'd actually have to edit one of the pages
<pips1> ok, I see what I can do to get drupal installed to investigate this theme brokenness...
<cbx33> like one of the first php files that is called
<LaserJock> ok, reading tons of backlog
* LaserJock give JaneW a huge, belated hug
<pips1> highvoltage, will you be around in the next four days?
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't think the help.ubuntu.com wiki will be closed
<highvoltage> pips1: yep
<pips1> great
<highvoltage> pips1: especially over the weekend
<pips1> ok, noted
<ogra> LaserJock, help.ubuntu.com will be filled from svn, no ?
<highvoltage> pips1: and evenings
<highvoltage> pips1: during daytime i'm pressed with tuxlab stuff
<LaserJock> ogra: no
<pips1> I need to negotiate with my wife :-) but I'm hoping to get some play time ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: help.ubuntu.com/6.06 will be from svn (the docs that are shipped with (K)ubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: help.ubuntu.com/wiki will be just like the current wiki, but only for user documentation
<pips1> highvoltage, cbx33 talk to you later!
<cbx33> ok pips1 
<LaserJock> ogra: help.ubuntu.com/wiki is what we are moving the docs to
<pips1> bye
<highvoltage> pips1: cheers!
<cbx33> highvoltage, did that idea sound any good?
<ogra> LaserJock, and every random user can add stuff like in the current wiki ?
<LaserJock> ogra: I believe so
<ogra> so why do we keep wiki.ubuntu.com then ? 
<LaserJock> for development and spec
<ogra> hmm ... thats a massive duplication ... you wont get users to only use one or the other for docs i guess
<LaserJock> ogra: the point was, people should go to help.ubuntu.com for documentation, wheither that be HTML or wiki
<highvoltage> cbx33: which one, the log one?
<cbx33> the php one
<cbx33> tbh I think it's going to confuse a lot of people
<cbx33> I've been here 2 months and I still don;t know where everything is
<highvoltage> what is?
<ogra> LaserJock, i also fail to see the point of the 3 months of work we did to get ed,k,ubuntu wikis use the same wiki
<cbx33> sorry highvoltage was jusmping in on the doc/wiki band wagon
<ogra> since that seems pointless now
<highvoltage> cbx33: that's something that we'll hopefully have fixed real soon :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, that's fine, it's all connected
<highvoltage> cbx33: since we'll have a doc.edubuntu.org drupal page at some point too, after we get over some teething problems ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: certain core docs will be only editable by doc team people
<cbx33> http://uk2.php.net/manual/en/function.ini-set.php
<ogra> LaserJock, lest see how it works out ... i dont see the advantage yet
<LaserJock> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs is the spec if you want
<highvoltage> ogra: merging the edubuntu wiki wasn't worth the work, in my opinion.
<ogra> highvoltage++
<cbx33> ini_set('error_reporting','E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE'
<cbx33> )
<cbx33> perhaps
<LaserJock> ogra: basically, if you want help you should go to help.ubuntu.com, not help.ubuntu.com + wiki.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> and 
<cbx33> ; - display_errors = On
<cbx33> but i nthe ini_set format
<LaserJock> and wiki.ubuntu.com has a mix of user documentation and specs, and developer work
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> cbx33: hold that thought, brrb
<cbx33> np
<ogra> i see *your* (docteams) point, but i dont agree from a user pov :)
<ogra> (as i didnt for the wiki merge)
<LaserJock> ogra: I actually am the other way around
<LaserJock> I don't see it from the doc team member point of view, but I see it as a user pov
<LaserJock> well, I see it less from the doc team point of view, I should say
<LaserJock> as a new user, I hated that I had to go all over *.ubuntu* to find help
<LaserJock> we will have 1 url to remember, help.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> plus it alows for much better searching
<cbx33> LaserJock, may i as k again how people will update it
<LaserJock> cbx33: just like the current wiki
<cbx33> so we will have 2 wikis?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> and yes
<LaserJock> we will have 1 user documentation wiki and 1 development + specs wiki
<cbx33> supersition of states ??? :S
<cbx33> you don;t know what wiki you'll get till you observe it :p
<LaserJock> but for now it I think it is just a copy + redirect
<cbx33> riight
<LaserJock> anyway, I don't know all the in's and out's of this thing, but there was a spec and it was approved and we got a server for it
<LaserJock> the actual move should happen fairly soon as we want everything in place for the release
<cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
<cbx33> please don;t hink I was attacking you :p
<LaserJock> no, not at all
<LaserJock> I had lots of reservations about it to begin with to
<cbx33> just confuses me, i suppose cos I've just got settled with moin and the wiki
<LaserJock> yeah, change always makes people who know the current system uneasy
<LaserJock> ogra: and btw, I've been working on testing using bzr for the doc team
* cbx33 likes svn
<cbx33> but can see that the lp integration would be good
<cbx33> so I'll let that one slide :p
<LaserJock> I like both
<ogra> LaserJock, and ?
<ogra> ah :)
<LaserJock> ogra: well, at this point it isn't ideal. we would have to change our workflow quite a bit
<LaserJock> basically it came down to, slowness and needing space to publish
<ogra> it makes merging soo much easier
<LaserJock> we don't really do a lot of merging
<cbx33> svn access would make my life easier :p
<LaserJock> somew cases when there is rapid development (ESA for instance) it is a bit tough
<LaserJock> but for the most part we have a couple doc team members for each doc and contributors just send patches
<cbx33> seems to work ok....
<cbx33> apart from my getting-started page :p
<LaserJock> I liked the idea of being able to split the repo up, but that would take a lot of retooling
<LaserJock> anyway, I do have a bzr branch on doc.ubuntu.com for people to test with
<LaserJock> but I found it soooo slow to do anything, or I had to do a lot of work to get things to work right
<LaserJock> but I'm hopeful that in the future we can move to LP/bzr
<LaserJock> I love bzr for local revision control
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> but it seems really clunky to me for remote stuff
<cbx33> evenin HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<HedgeMage> good morning :P
<LaserJock> I spent a couple hours with lifless trying to figure out how to use it, and I'm about the most bzr-literate of the doc team
<lucasvo> LaserJock: it takes hours but it works very easy with sftp
<cbx33> that's my only issue with it is that it's very very slow
<blue-frog> sry where has gconf editor menu gone pls?
<LaserJock> lucasvo: if you have a public place to sftp too
<ogra> blue-frog, alt-f2
<blue-frog> raah
<blue-frog> ty
<blue-frog> so it's simply gone :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> as every other "non user related" item
<LaserJock> lucasvo: the problem for the doc team is having a place where people can publish branches
<LaserJock> and do it efficently
<cbx33> give me svn + webdav
<lucasvo> LaserJock: isn't there a LP supermirror?
<cbx33> i can do it from behind a proxy then :p
<lucasvo> cbx33: as well as bzr+webdav
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> didn;t know that was available
<ogra> lucasvo, not done yet ... but it should come soon
<lucasvo> LaserJock: in that case ask canonical to add a user for the docteam
<lucasvo> ogra: too bad
* lucasvo is convincing his friend not to use SF and start using LP
<ogra> lucasvo, its huuuge, it requires hundrets of terabytes of imports first ..
<ogra> thats going on since hoary ...
<LaserJock> lucasvo: they problem is non-docteam members
<lucasvo> yup
<lucasvo> just give them access as well :)
<LaserJock> for doc team people we can give them space, but for the random contributor it is a bit much to ask for them to publish a ~150MB branch all the time
<cbx33> LaserJock, I agree
<LaserJock> lucasvo: that would be like us opening Main to anybody who wants to upload a package ;-)
<cbx33> whist I love contributing
<cbx33> I don't have the space for hat right now
<cbx33> do it do it do it
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm still holding that thought....but it's getting wriggly now :p
<lucasvo> LaserJock: yup
<LaserJock> if we could split the repo up into chunks it would at least be more managable
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm getting some help from the druapl channels...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> is it working
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> mind if I sit in too?
<cbx33> #drupal?
<LaserJock> ok, stupid question. where is the edubuntu drupal stuff? is that www.edubuntu.org?
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> brb
<LaserJock> ogra: have you seen freeduc before?
<ogra> LaserJock, we had cotacted ofset back when we had the edubuntu summit, but they didnt want to come iirc
<LaserJock> I was reading through the Knoppix Hacks book I bought some time ago and they mention it
<LaserJock> they give a little listing of the apps
* cbx33 was building devenix in knoppix
<cbx33> but want to move it to ubuntu
* HedgeMage peeks in
<LaserJock> cbx33: Ichthux might move to kubuntu
<cbx33> yeh we thought about jubuntu too
<HedgeMage> I haven't been in #drupal and #drupal-support lately, I should put them back on my autojoins
<LaserJock> I don't know anything about drupal, but that isn't anything new.
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I've been doing drupal stuff for ages :)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I love drupal!
<LaserJock> I am slowly resigning myself to the fact that I will never even approach the knowledge I want
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> but isn't trying fun?
<LaserJock> sort of
<LaserJock> frustrating and discouraging mostly at this point
<HedgeMage> :(
<cbx33> LaserJock, me too
<LaserJock> I currently spend my time bouncing between the Doc Team, MOTU, and Edubuntu, but never *really* knowing any
<cbx33> yeh right LaserJock 
<cbx33> you know more than I :p
<cbx33> well,m iun the areas I want to know about :p
<LaserJock> but I don't want to abandon any of them
<LaserJock> so I have to figure out some way of creating a 36 hr day
<cbx33> LaserJock, oh do share :p
* cbx33 has about an hour tomorrow morning before he goes to work
<cbx33> may start to redreaft the ltsp front page :D
<HedgeMage> bbl, TT needs me
<LaserJock> actually, my biggest issue is making the time I do have more efficient
<crimsun> LaserJock: welcome to academia.
<crimsun> RE: "I am slowly resigning myself to the fact that I will never even approach the knowledge I want"
<crimsun> the first step is to admit that you will never know very much of anything much less everything about nothing
<LaserJock> I'm there man
<cbx33> new meeting minutes up
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<ogra> cbx33, i'm missing a link to http://www.progbox.co.uk/jane.jpg
<cbx33> yikes how did I miss that
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> apart from that does it sound ok
<ogra> "reported the jelkner"
<ogra> "reported that jelkner"
<ogra> "people to look at the very hard before the release"
<ogra> "people to look very hard before the release"
<LaserJock> yeah, to bad I didn't know we were having a meeting (I'm not sure I could have made it anyway)
<ogra> else its all fine from my POV
<cbx33> done and changed
<LaserJock> ogra: by "ogra - made a plea for more developers to help with edubuntu" do you mean core-devs or MOTUs or ...?
<cbx33> ogra just said developers in general
<ogra> people with knowledge and upload privs
<cbx33> but if you want to specifiy ogra we can change it
<cbx33> I'll add that
<ogra> or people who just send patches etc
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> i.e. Yagisan once sent me a small patch that grew several heads later and became our multiarch support in ltsp ...
<LaserJock> yeah, Yagisan is awesome
<ogra> he has no upload provs and is no packager but it was a very valuable dev contribution
<ogra> *privs
<LaserJock> yeah
* LaserJock is feeling like he needs a little Edubuntu project, but will probably have to wait until Paris :-)
<LaserJock> I want to get my toes a little wet with Python
<cbx33> aww
<cbx33> me too me too
<cbx33> actually I have a little project that I'm goign to work on.....but not sure how useful it will be for edubuntu
<cbx33> hey highvoltage2 
<LaserJock> cbx33: maybe a joint Edubuntu python adventure? ;-)
<highvoltage2> chey cbx33 
<highvoltage2> problem sorted :)
<cbx33> LaserJock, I would actually love that
<cbx33> I love working with people on things
<cbx33> what was it in the end?
<cbx33> highvoltage2 Heine: thanks, it was the theme's sidebar content settings all along. thanks for all your help and patience!!!
<cbx33> :D:D:
<cbx33> yazooo
<highvoltage2> the theme can override block settings, so i had to edit it at: http://www.edubuntu.org/admin/block/list/edubuntu
<highvoltage2> i can't believe it was that simple
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> sometimes it really is :p
<ogra> wow, looks cool
<ogra> the bottom needs some love thouhg
<highvoltage2> ogra: still work in progress
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> ohhh, edubuntu.org hotness :-)
<ogra> but still, LOOKS REALLY COOL !
<highvoltage2> ogra: yeah, but edubuntugirl said we should put it up already
<highvoltage2> ogra: thanks :)
<ogra> :D
<bluefrog-10> raah edubuntu "normal" cd is a noo no to install on my sony laptop :(
<ogra> normal ???
<highvoltage2> cbx33: if you want a copy for your local installation, you can get it at http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/edubuntu.tar
<cbx33> nicely done highvoltage2 
<cbx33> wicked :)
<bluefrog-10> normal compared to install from livecd
<cbx33> LaserJock, seriously keep me in mind for your python project :D
<ogra> bluefrog-10, our install CD is your "normal" CD
<highvoltage2> yay!!!! someone else thinks that d-i is normal as apposed to espresso!
<bluefrog-10> ogra yes
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude, I need a project, you got anything in mind? :-)
<ogra> bluefrog-10, depending on architecture the liveCDs are broken ... wait for the next build (in 1.2h)
<cbx33> well I have a very small project I was going to work on
<ogra> *1-2
<cbx33> would be happy to work on it with you if you think it's useful
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<bluefrog-10> black screen at 59%, can't switch console, but cd still running from time to time and there is HDD activity.  that is using edubuntu install cd.. Installing from livecd works perfectly on the other hand on same laptop 
<bluefrog-10> and i rsync edu install cd 2 hours ago
<ogra> bluefrog-10, at which speed tot you burn that CD ?
<ogra> *did
* ogra stares at his keyboard
<bluefrog-10> don't remember but at 10 i would presume with k3b, choosing verify cd at boot prompt tells me cd is fine
<bluefrog-10> 10 cause RW
<ogra> i usually recommend 8x max ... but 10 might still work ...
<bluefrog-10> going to burn another brand just in case
<bluefrog-10> at 8
<bluefrog-10> now i have to overburn but did the same with livecd so..
<ogra> hmm, that might be different ... te liveCD uses squashfs 
<bluefrog-10> *looking for 800MB blank CD desperately*
<bluefrog-10> *ah ah going to download DVD, no need to overburn :)*
<highvoltage> bluefrog-10: 800MB blank cd?
<bluefrog-10> :)
<highvoltage> bluefrog-10: how big is your edubuntu cd?
<bluefrog-10> iso as per 2 hours ago 694
<bluefrog-10> cd 700
<ogra> it *must* fit on 700M media without overburn ... thats how debian-cd on the builders is set up
<bluefrog-10> well if overburn is not necessary k3b doesn't use it..
<bluefrog-10> .. I think
<highvoltage> bluefrog-10: try from the command line:
<highvoltage> cdrecorf -v -dao -eject cd.iso -dev /dev/hdd speed=8
<highvoltage> where /dev/hdd is your cdrom device and cd.iso the name of the cd image
<bluefrog-10> yes yes
<highvoltage> urgh, replave cdrecorf with cdrecord
<bluefrog-10> i finish burning on another cd brand, then while the install will run will do that on another cd
* ogra never used k3b in his life
<bluefrog-10> *is far from being a command line god :)*
<ogra> even though i once worked with the original author ...
<ogra> nautilus is soo much easier for burning isos
<highvoltage> k3b is very nice. better than nero under windows imho
<bluefrog-10> oh yes never think of it
<highvoltage> graveman is getting there fast too...
<bluefrog-10> highvoltage, how do you erase cd from command line if I may , pls?
<highvoltage> cdrecord blank=fast /dev/cdrom
<bluefrog-10> ty
<bluefrog-10> k3b is burning my cd right now at 4
<bluefrog-10> ah noticed something when I had dapper installed few hours ago
<bluefrog-10> about shared folders.. at first I chose samba only, and then I wanted to enable nfs as well, never could, wasn't given the choice
<bluefrog-10> installed nfs-common but then daemon wouldn't start bitching about chown /var//something/ to another user than root
<bluefrog-10> or /usr/lib (don't recall exactly)
* highvoltage needs some sleep
<highvoltage> goodnight, ogra, cbx33 LaserJock and bluefrog-10 
<bluefrog-10> night
<ogra> night highvoltage 
<bluefrog-10> dvd I find in edubuntu/dvd/current is the same as the one in dvd/current?
<ogra> its the edubuntu dvd
<ogra> the latter is ubuntu
<bluefrog-10> ok so edubuntu dvd is really full of edubuntu stuff ok ty
<bluefrog-10> it has all arch i presume?
<ogra> nope
<bluefrog-10> or all language packs?
<ogra> yes
<bluefrog-10> yes sry looking at the page right now different dvd for arch
<ogra> all of "supported" (which is the major part of main)
<bluefrog-10> if this install hangs up on me again i will try an install in text mode... i suspect a graphical problem..
<bluefrog-10> hum no graphics are miniaml anyway when retrieving/installing packages
<bluefrog-10> weird on previous install eth0 was my intel ethernet and eth1 was wifi, now it's reversed
<ogra> udev ...
<bluefrog-10> dynamic?
<ogra> yep
<bluefrog-10> ok
<ogra> but only on install afaik ...
<bluefrog-10> *thinks it was the first and last time he used a command line to blank a CD, hopes the player is not fucked up... :( *
<ogra> k3b uses the same command, be sure 
<mhz> cbx33: ping
<bluefrog-10> well never had the problem I have now
<bluefrog-10> might be ok..
<mhz> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> mhz, hi
<blue-frog> ogra do you know off your head what's installing after xfonts? black screen again with cd written at $x
<blue-frog> 4x
<mhz> cbx33: hey, sorry... phone
<cbx33> np
<mhz> cbx33: so, did you get my reasons before I had trouble with ISP?
<cbx33> no?
<cbx33> tellme again
* mhz will read his logs
<mhz> cbx33: may 24 09:54:10 <mhz>   cbx33: 1) Moin is my very good friend, it is a bit "scary" I use Moin for about 90% of my work (agenda, calendar, todo, biz quotes, planning, meeting records, etc) so, translate it via moin it is way faster for me than doing it via rosetta, plus I can take it with me as it is plain text in the end
<mhz> cbx33: may 24 10:03:06 <mhz>   cbx33: 2) ESA would be great notice text for media coverage here in Chile 
<mhz> may 24 10:03:40 <mhz>   and good "translation work" to start motivating more spanish speakers to do smething for edubuntu
<cbx33> ah yes
<mhz> cbx33: so, are you ok with this?
<cbx33> mhz, translate and use it as you wish :D
<mhz> cbx33: okis, thx :)
<cbx33> I'll let you know when we have somewhere to put it here
<mhz> cbx33: sure
<mhz> cbx33: and if you need help with moin stuff, just let me know
<cbx33> will do
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<Bluekuja> cya guys, see you all tomorrow
<Bluekuja> :)
<pygi> night andrea
<cbx33> nn Bluekuja 
<cbx33> ping HedgeMage 
<cbx33> nn all
<bimberi> ogra et. al. : I've tried a recent edubuntu powerpc daily build (~24 hours ago) on our Mac Mini (G3 256Mb RAM). Live only (no install). Booted fine and ran a few apps OK.
<bimberi> ... so looks good :)
<ogra> bimberi, would you note that down on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu ?
<bimberi> ogra: sure
<ogra> thanks ! :)
<bimberi> :)
<LaserJock> ogra: why would you get a typo bug?
<ogra> because people will expect it to be Edubuntu 6.06 LTSP :)
<LaserJock> doh, I just thought of that
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> its really an odd abbreviation clash :)
<LaserJock> sort of like Ebuntu ;-)
<ogra> whoops no i was actually shocked
<ogra> i just forgot i'm doing a workstation install ... 
<ogra> and suddenly the network confgured itself :)
<LaserJock> I tried out the i386 live CD last night on my laptop at home
<LaserJock> first time I've tried Linux on it I think
<LaserJock> the wireless, "Just Worked"
<LaserJock> very  cool
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> its kind of cool :)
<jsgotangco> good morning
<ogra> hi
<ogra> jsgotangco, did you ever test the workstation install on amd64 ?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> last night it was fine
<ogra> hrm
<jsgotangco> im doing an rsync now
<ogra> i just had one where i ended up with no gdm and no edubuntu-desktop installed
<ogra> and i'm not sure its the DVD
<jsgotangco> im doing an rsync now and will test
<ogra> great thanks ...
<ogra> trying amd64 default install now
* jsgotangco wish he had ogra's bandwidth as well atm
<ogra> 2M only ...
<ogra> you can get 20M here
<jsgotangco> i'd go for 2M anytime compared to my 512 here
<jsgotangco> and its 9am it becomes a bit clogged up
<ogra> my eyes couldnt bear 9am atm :)
<ogra> too much daylight :)
<jsgotangco> 1 file to consider
<jsgotangco> dapper-install-amd64.iso
<jsgotangco>     94316341  13%   25.60kB/s    6:47:47
<jsgotangco> pffttt
<ogra> hmm there wasnt much change ...
<ogra> it should come up to speed quickly
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> What language, or languages, if any are we hurting for translators for?
<ogra> for dapper none anymore ...
<ogra> for edgy all we can get
<HedgeMage> lol I meant in general
<HedgeMage> I might get free foriegn language classes through an army thing
<ogra> hmm we have 90 langs we support, pick one :)
<ogra> i personally find xhosa intresting ...
<ogra> (has a cool name)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> I might start with Arabic, since hubby et al. spend so much time in the middle east...
<HedgeMage> I'm still thinking about it
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt
<ogra> there is a list of all languages
<HedgeMage> cool
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> I'm wondering if I should pick something common and likely to be frequently used, or something obscure and interesting
<ogra> do you plan to go to canada ? then pick french ;) do you plan to go south, pick spanish :)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> If I'm smart, I probably will start with a Romance language, as I already know Latin they should be pretty easy for me
<HedgeMage> Hubby's best friend is a bit of a linguist, I should find out what he knows so I have someone to practice on :)
<HedgeMage> then again, when all else fails, there are always random IRC people, so I'll at least get the written/read bits down no matter what I leran
<HedgeMage> learn
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I'm trying German and French but I'm not getting very far on my own
<ogra> we can train german in paris ... :)
<ogra> and well, you can train yourself in french in paris as well :)
<HedgeMage> hehe I'd think Paris would be better for french :P
<HedgeMage> I so wish I was going :/
<ogra> my french sucks
<ogra> you didnt apply for sponsorship, did you ? 
<HedgeMage> You guys will all have to blog frequently so I can live vicariously through you :P
<HedgeMage> ogra: sponsorship? no, I didn't know there was any available
<ogra> blog ... hmm
<ogra> i think my last blog entry is more than a year ago
<jsgotangco> yeah
<HedgeMage> lol you're worse than me, then, mine's only a month or so ago
<ogra> HedgeMage, we always sponsor a bunch of people
<HedgeMage> ogra: spiffy... I'd assume it's too late to apply by now, though?
* HedgeMage wonders
<ogra> yep
<HedgeMage> figured.
<jsgotangco> Mon, 25 Jul 2005
<jsgotangco> MediaWiki packages available
<ogra> may 15th was the end date
<jsgotangco> almost
<HedgeMage> at least I know for next time, whenever that is :)
<ogra> in november ...
<ogra> *wherever* it is ;)
<HedgeMage> ooh :)  my birthday is in November... ;)
<HedgeMage> hehe
* HedgeMage votes for WA, USA, just because it's close :)
<jsgotangco> i truly doubt we'll see the day an ubuntu devel conf happens in the USA
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even mark has changed his mind a bit
<jsgotangco> Montreal was the closest
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but he had a usa business travel after montreal
<jsgotangco> it was still pretty risky heh
<ogra> heh+
<HedgeMage> hehe
* mhz wonders what this bot has told him: <mhz> diabetik: insult mhz
<mhz> <diabetik> mhz - You are nothing but a half-faced assload of festering IE.
<Laser_away> doh, I just figured out how I can test LTSP
<jsgotangco> its not even installing heh
* bimberi guesses IE = Internet Explorer
<Laser_away> mhz: ouch
<mhz> Laser_away: is that a bad insult ? :D
<Laser_away> if I install ltsp-server on an Ubuntu install can I use the Edubuntu documentation on setting up a LTSP server?
<mhz> Laser_away: hmmm
<mhz> not sure.. Edubuntu LTSP, IIRC, it uses a diff approach than regular LTSP
<mhz> Edubuntu forwards X all the time
<mhz> and AFAIK, LTSP does not work the same way
<mhz> Edubuntu works via ssh forwarding
<jsgotangco> its the same
<mhz> jsgotangco: are you sure?
<jsgotangco> why would it diverge from ubuntu itself?
<mhz> why would I know the answer?
<mhz> it does install diff dirs
<mhz> and it does use diff config files
<jsgotangco> mhz: i wouldn't count on it
<mhz> that is a fact
<mhz> many people have installed LTSP but not Edubuntu-server
<jsgotangco> it doesn't make sense to me if edubuntu ltsp is different from ubuntu ltsp
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, maybe you are right on the point that the "technology" is the same
<mhz> but the installation is indeed different
<jsgotangco> i was talking about ubuntu and edubuntu not other implementations of ltsp from diff distros
<mhz> me too
<mhz> if you install LTSP server (ubuntu) you will edit config files in locations that do not correspond to the ones installed by edubuntu-server
<mhz> actually, you edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf for edubuntu-sever
<mhz> while in normal ubuntu ltsp you do not have that file there
<mhz> (that was an example, only)
<mhz> (and it is also a fact)
<jsgotangco> there maybe differences, but it should be trivial imo
<mhz> Laser_away: bottom line, you can try, of course. LTSP will work in the end. But if you ask in the sense of "edubuntu support", the logical thing is to follow edubuntu steps/docs ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: hi man
<mhz> highvoltage: got 2 minutes?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> hey mhz 
<highvoltage> mhz: sure, since i'm locked out of the office here :)
<mhz> highvoltage: lol
<highvoltage> oooh, this is nice: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8396/zoom/
<mhz> highvoltage: it is confirmed... FET will be on June 20 and 21st
<highvoltage> whohoo!
<mhz> therefore, you won't be here :(
<highvoltage> mhz: you must feel very relieved hey?
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, i'm happy for you though :)
<mhz> honestly... it is as terrible news as JaneW not continuing in Edubuntu :(
<highvoltage> mhz: just make sure there's another FET next year ;)
<highvoltage> mhz: nah, it's not as bad as that at all
<highvoltage> mhz: i'm sure you'll do just fine
<mhz> well, that is the idea, as well as we'll have the Institute and Edubuntu Chile working as a distro cutomized for low Chilean hardware school pc's
<highvoltage> nice, you know what they're goign to base it off from?
<mhz> highvoltage: then, I wanted to tell you "personally" about this
<mhz> highvoltage: what you mean?
<mhz> oh, I guess, Edubuntu-server + XFCE 
<mhz> GNOME is really killing my older hardware performance
<highvoltage> ah ok. nice
<highvoltage> yeah, we're going to use Edubuntu + Xubuntu in tuxlabs too
<mhz> and normal server-boxes are not higher than 2 Ghz of processor and 1 GHz of RAM
<Burgundavia> what is default memory usage for XFCE like?
<highvoltage> it doesn't really kill the thin clients as much as it kills the server
<highvoltage> ouch @ 1GM of RAM
<mhz> yeah, true
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: just a sec, i'll get you some stats
<mhz> highvoltage: re FET/ you said you could propose a friend of yours?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2005/09/msg00067.html
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, i think i can
<highvoltage> mhz: i can phone him in about 30 minutes, when other people start arriving at the office
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, wow, almost half
<Burgundavia> I hope this nautilus performance stuff comes through
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: yep, and xfce has come a long way, it's much more prettier and usable than it used to be
<mhz> Burgundavia: see? that's why we need to customize stuff here in Chile
<highvoltage> and not only is xfce less memory intensive, it's less CPU intensive as well
<mhz> highvoltage: indeed. Jani, Nomed and others have been putting lots of work in xubuntu 
<highvoltage> and it doesn't have fancy animations like when you minimize a window in gnome, which does nothing more but waste network bandwidth on ltsp
<Burgundavia> it would nice if xfce and gnome could figure out a longterm merge plan
<mhz> when I talk to nemd and see his work.. I can't help thinking of him as anohter ogra.
<mhz> nemd = nomed
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, you should file some bugs upstream to get some gconf keys for turning off the fancy stuff
<highvoltage> mhz: i talked to jani about a month ago, and he said dapper version of xubuntu will have ltsp as well as an option
<highvoltage> mhz: so you could start with the xubuntu cd, and then just install the other apps on top of that
<mhz> highvoltage: re FET/ If I can have his CD in the next 5 hours in my inbox, then I might have  a chance to suggest him as a replacement for you, considering he has experience on those labs in southafrica
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: yeah.
* highvoltage notes that
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, he's an ideal person to come and talk about it, and although he's also extremely busy, i'm sure he'd love to come and talk
<mhz> highvoltage: and how diff could it be to install Edubuntu and then Xubuntu on top? As long as I use xubuntu I should have same better results in server performance?
<mhz> highvoltage: does he look like the Manchester United player too?
* mhz is using xubuntu on top of edubuntu
<highvoltage> mhz: well, with hair like that, he definately looks like a soccer player :)
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, you could do it that way around as well, but you just end up with more install cd's
<highvoltage> (since you're shipping gnome, which you won't really be using)
<mhz> The plan so far is to keep Edubuntu Chile so we can make clear we still work with same devel group nad we just have 2 alternatives for schools. Gnome and XFCE... they choose. The diff for us, is that we'll customize language, artwrok, install, etc. A11y is also an important target.
<mhz> yeah, i see your point but we still need GNOME (which could be installed after xubuntu-edu-lstp environment) so end-users may see similarities to M$
<mhz> highvoltage: re FET/ if he can send me both the letter and his CV during next 5 hours, then I'll be glad to suggest him as a YOU
<mhz> after that, I can't really promise anything
<mhz> BTW, your CV had the format/layout they wanted here, so it was cool.
<highvoltage> ok, I'll get Hilton to pass his info on to you
<mhz> highvoltage: THX a lot and I am sorry Mark has moved the Paris event for June too :(
<highvoltage> hehe. all his fault eh?
<mhz> now, if I could get about 50 Edubuntu Dapper CD's and t-shirts... I could also do something interesting during FET
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah!
<mhz> :D
<highvoltage> mhz: strip while throwing out edubuntu cd's?
<mhz> LOL!
<mhz> nah, that was why YOU were coming here
<mhz> hmmm.... "wet contest = Wet Edubuntu T-Shirts contests!!!" 
<mhz> w.e.t
<Burgundavia> oh, sorry, but I don't want to see most of the people who work on Edubuntu naked/topless
<mhz> Burgundavia: oh come on! why do you think they chose Paris?
<Burgundavia> right
<mhz> highvoltage: do you know this person? Heather Ford or  Daniela Faris? 
<mhz> http://ubuntu.typepad.com/
<highvoltage> mhz: i know Heather Ford
<highvoltage> mhz: creative commons chick
<highvoltage> Daniela Faris sounds familiar... can't remember who it is though
<mhz> yup
<mhz> Daniela has experience in design and layout, photography, web development and online publishing. She has also specialized in ICT and economics writing. She has reported on various conferences and events, including the Creative Commons South Africa launch, as part of her practical training in multimedia journalism. Daniela has completed short internships at a locally based newspaper and magazine; and at the Institute for Democracy in South Africa (Idasa), a po
<mhz> litically focused NGO in Pretoria.
<mhz> Heather Ford is a South African who has worked in the fields of internet policy, law and management in South Africa, the United Kingdom and the United States.
<mhz> Recently appointed Acting Executive Director of iCommons, Heather is also helping to help establish an Intellectual Property Research Unit at the Link Centre and a new NGO called The African Commons Project.
<mhz> if any of those is potentially geek, man, I'll gladly try to flirt with her and convince her to be my "friend" :)
<mhz> and if pretty... well, then I won lottery!
<Burgundavia> mhz, you dog :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: sick man
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, here is probably single
<Burgundavia> s/here/he
<jsgotangco> no not at all
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, I have been in a separation process for the last 5 or 6 months now, Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> mhz, ah, totallly understandable then
<mhz> .oO(or I'd say more than 1 year according to my ex-wife version.. and I had no idea :) )
<mhz> Burgundavia: indeed.
<jsgotangco> mhz: try this lol
<jsgotangco> mhz: http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-11711-.html
<mhz> jsgotangco: and... come one, how could my latinamerican blood resist such description: intelligent woman, works for freedom of access, has been volunteer, undertands about ICT, journalism and web design experience... geee, impossible not to react :)
<mhz> and if she looks like JaneW and/or has that tattoo...I'd die!
<Burgundavia> mhz, are you drolling over married Canonical employees again?
<mhz> LOL!
<mhz> "is she looks like..."
<mhz> is = if
<Burgundavia> not that JaneW is, ah never mind
<Burgundavia> this whole conversation is probably completely against the CoC
<mhz> jsgotangco: lol, you all are nuts :D
<jsgotangco> mhz: hey she has a python interface lol...she can probably interface with moin too you never know
<mhz> Burgundavia: nah, I dont think so. The way I see it, we are just talkng about some profiles of potential candidates to become part of the Edubuntu family, or not?
<Burgundavia> mhz, dirty dirty lol
<mhz> jsgotangco: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
<mhz> jsgotangco: where or how do you get those urls!! Do you google for them?
<mhz> Burgundavia: see? totaly within CoC
<jsgotangco> mhz: i have an interest in robotics
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, come on! too many coincidences: mobile IT, robotics, documentation, edubuntu... what else?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: *sniff*
<jsgotangco> mhz: early childhood development
<mhz> jsgotangco: ROFL!!!
<jsgotangco> i also stumbled upon E-Stim but it is not appropriate in this place
<jsgotangco> :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, then you get Heather and I get Daniela :D
<mhz> jsgotangco: you stumbled upon? or you intentioanlly did it?
<jsgotangco> mhz: i stumbled at it on google, but i haven't actually seen one
<mhz> oh, and if you did, I am sure you would try its reflexes
<mhz> ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz: im more interested on the interface and the software and why people use it
<jsgotangco> but i have something similar at home from japan, but its purpose is for massage
<JaneW> Burgundavia: I have never been opposed to sexual harrassment in the work place ;P
<jsgotangco> running on 9v cell
<JaneW> *joking*
<mhz> JaneW: and now that you leave you say it?
<jsgotangco> mhz: and i find it unfair that the controller software only works on windows and OSX
<Burgundavia> JaneW, what will the children think! rofl
<JaneW> Burgundavia: children...? oh, them!, drat ;)
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, ogra could always port it, or maybe Yagisan
<Burgundavia> JaneW, them children need to be edumacated anyway, shucks!
* HedgeMage peeks in
<mhz> JaneW: BTW, you already got anohter job? Maybe you could ask Heaher or Daniela about it?
<mhz> highvoltage: hehehe, anoter event right after FEThttp://icommons.org/about/
<mhz> http://icommons.org/about/
<mhz_zZzZ> nite you all
<highvoltage> JaneW: i suppose you should stay on the "Edubuntu Members" team as admin until we find a replacement first?
<highvoltage> JaneW: i don't think you should be a non-administrator yet
<pygi> JaneW, argh, what happened? :-/
<pygi> highvoltage, ?
<highvoltage> pygi: http://janewsblog.blogspot.com/
<pygi> highvoltage, thanks
<pygi> ergh, the first few sentences are already enough :(
<pygi> JaneW, very sorry to hear that :)
<pygi> :(*
<cbx33> gooooood mornin all
<cbx33> pygi: I solved that issue with python
<pygi> cbx33, no, not good mornin', and congrats
<HedgeMage> JaneW: awww... I know the feeling, though I'm sorry to see you go
<crimsun> well, best of luck, JaneW.
<cbx33> pygi: not a good morning?
<pygi> cbx33, no, JaneW leaving Canonical :-/
<cbx33> I know....not good at all
<cbx33> JaneW: did you see the latest minutes?
<crimsun> pygi: it's not necessarily a /bad/ thing, though we would say it's sad. We can all look forward to the future, though. No sense in really miring.
<pygi> crimsun, ah
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, do you have that link to the prison chatter/
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i've been trying to find it, but our lug's mailing list archives aren't very searchable
* highvoltage looks again
<HedgeMage> I do give her a ton of credit, though.  I know what I went through when I left a good job to give my son what he needed, and in my case it was an emergency... doing it for important-but-not-emergency reasons is likely even harder 
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, which list was it on?
<JaneW> hi all
<JaneW> sorry I had to take my car for a service - it was dying
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, I have to say, wow is clug hopping
<pygi> hi JaneW 
<highvoltage> Burgundavia :http://lists.clug.org.za/mailman/listinfo/clug-chat
<HedgeMage> np
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok I'll stay on the E members list
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: wow is clug hopping? i don't understand you?
<highvoltage> JaneW: great :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, you are about 10x busier than most lugs in Western Canada
<JaneW> highvoltage: I do need to reduce the mail flood each day, especially the superfluous stuff
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: our wiki is coming together nicely too :) http://wiki.clug.org.za
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok. i understand :)
<JaneW> cbx33: where are the minutes
<JaneW> cbx33: I am looking at the old page
<pygi> Enjoy ppl, talk to you later
<highvoltage> bingo
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: http://lists.clug.org.za/pipermail/clug-chat/2005-May/012365.html
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, that is pretty sad
<Burgundavia> people can be very blinkered
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: *nods*
<Burgundavia> well, I need to sleep
<Burgundavia> good night
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: but like i said, the conversation did bring out some nice posts, Jonathan Hitcock (another member of JOCUAMAOE), wrote this: http://lists.clug.org.za/pipermail/clug-chat/2005-May/012367.html
<JaneW> highvoltage: or shall I say warder? ;P
<highvoltage> JaneW: :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: Prisoner Cell Block U (for Ubuntu)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> JaneW: erm... E... for Edubuntu ;)
<JaneW> right!
<pips1> hullo
<HedgeMage> hi pips1 
<pips1> hi HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> hey pips1 
<pips1> highvoltage, did you see the security announcements?
<highvoltage> pips1: yep, will update, thanks
<pips1> oki
<pips1> hey, you fixed the theme!!
<pips1> :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: can I list clug.org.za at fossug.org?  (A project I'm slowly putting together with links to various user groups, resources, etc)
* highvoltage looks at fossug
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: sure :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool... have a sentence or two blurb to go with the link?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: take the first paragraph of http://www.clug.org.za
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool, will do :)
<HedgeMage> omg your logo is great
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: it's table mountain at the top there
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: you can see table mountain with penguins on http://www.sanccob.co.za/
<highvoltage> (second pic in the middle)
<HedgeMage> cool
<pips1> nice
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: if the new DNS has propogated in your direction already, you can check out the logo on http://olympia.fossug.org that's one of the better ones I've done -- I'm just not a graphics person.
<HedgeMage> I make things work, I don't make them pretty :P
<blue-frog> hi all
<HedgeMage> hi blue-frog 
<blue-frog> ahve finally found out where my installs "hangs up" on my vaio laptop. get a black screen at xserver configuration
<blue-frog> so I believe I can continue the install as the cd is still running and the HDD as well, but I have to finish it blind
<pips1> blue-frog, good luck!
<blue-frog> yep especially if it's asking me where to put grub :(
<blue-frog> from memory i think it's the next step after asking screen resolution
<pips1> isn't there a screenshot series that documents the default installation routine?
<cbx33> JaneW: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<blue-frog> pips1 good thought
<blue-frog> gonna google
<JaneW> cbx33: thanks
<JaneW> cbx33: LMAO
<cbx33> :D
<JaneW> cbx33: excellent minutes by the way
<JaneW> you sum up very well and clearly
<pips1> blue-frog, http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted ? hth
<cbx33> JaneW: thank you
<blue-frog> pips1, cool.  trying
<cbx33> I was always told I write very concisely....one of my failing points apparently...oh and very colloqually (however you spell it)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: colloquially
<HedgeMage> Does anyone know if we have a meeting reminder mailing list set up anywhere?  I forget half the time until the last minute or too late.
* jsgotangco yawns
<JaneW> cbx33: well it's prefect for minutes
<JaneW> cbx33: perhaps not for an epic novel :P
<HedgeMage> I require advanced nagging, at least until life here stabalizes a bit :P
* jsgotangco peeks what's happening here
<pips1> cbx33, the meeting notes read just fine
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I tend to be too verbose, so together we'd make a well-balanced team :P
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I agree that the minutes are just great as is :)
* jsgotangco looks around
<blue-frog> need a bit of help from experienced grub user on dapper pls if available
<blue-frog> have to finished dapper install blind
<blue-frog> had to *
<blue-frog> when i boot have grub error 17
<blue-frog> i started a livecd and found out in the dpkg.log that I encountered a problem with grub (I expected that as I was blind)
<blue-frog> I have no grub folder in the boot folder, can I install grub from the livecd?
<blue-frog> oh found a an howto on wiki, trying that
<blue-frog> hi ogra have identified where my installs falls apart on a vaio laptop, it's atthe xserver resolution configuration. The install goes on but I have to do it blind, and as I have multiple OS on the laptop at some point it must be asking me to configure grub and this where I fail (doing it blind..) I loaded a livdecd to try to install grub correctly but am having a hard time with it now
<blue-frog> please I have edubuntu dvd, at boot time how do I enter rescue mode from the dvd?
<cbx33> thanks all on the minutes feedback
<blue-frog> folks where has the prompt gone when you boot on the install cd?
<blue-frog> Pls anyone, I have no prompt at boot time with install cd, only the diffrent choices from menu, is that normal, am i missing something, must I use F6 to enter rescue mode?
<cbx33> blue-frog: that is normal
<blue-frog> yes but then how do we enter rescue mode from install cd pls?
<cbx33> I don;t know :S - never had to do it
<blue-frog> should be a choice in the menu fro rescue mode then, don't you think?
<blue-frog> or get rid of the rescue mention in the help menu
<blue-frog> I 'd prefer a rescue mode choice as it could help me setup grub on my vaio laptop
<ogra> you said you have the dvd, there should be a possibility to use the live image, there you have the rescue mode in the menu
<blue-frog> ok so how do i do that pls, choose start or install edubuntu?
<ogra> blue-frog, i havent tested the DVD yet, no idea 
<blue-frog> rahh :(
<ogra> but i know both isos are on there and there should be a menu at the start where you can select between live and install
<blue-frog> for the black screen problem should I report it as a bug?
<blue-frog> if i hit start or install edubuntu or if i hit install a workstation it starts the install/live direct.. no prompt at anytime
<blue-frog> thought about the F6 key and added rescue at then end but with no luck
<ogra> blue-frog, indeed, thats a bug, but check if it doesnt ecist yet, sony is a big brand id imagine someone had this prob before you
<jsgotangco> ogra: good morning :)
<ogra> heya
<blue-frog> ogra found the rescue system choice on the edubuntu cd, but this menu is missing in the dvd
<blue-frog> dvd iso rsync as per yesterday night
<blue-frog> *off to lunch*
<jsgotangco> ogra: you think a test on the latest rsync is proper?
<ogra> jsgotangco, the *latest* rsync i.e. the iso from 10 min ago should be our RC
<jsgotangco> cool its grabbing now
<jsgotangco> this shold be fun
<ogra> dont grab live yet
<ogra> still building
<jsgotangco> i just grab install always
<cbx33> jsgotangco: heheh
* pips1 is rsyncing install cd amd64
<pips1> btw, tested live cd i386 (25/05/2006 build) ok :)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> meh
<pips1> dapper works really great on my shiny new thinkpad: Highlights include working external monitor, hardware volume switch, Touchpad - Scroll down side, Function keys... :-D
<ogra> we're supposed to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current to log our findings, i'll transfer the data we already have, please log the status there (at the bottom is an edubuntu table)
<pips1> oh, right, ok
<cbx33> are you taransfering my data across
<cbx33> or are we starting testing all over again?
<ogra> oh, i'm not even allowed
<jsgotangco> cbx33: this is the last 50 yards :)
<ogra> this counts only for the current build ... fun 
<ogra> so no transfer... 
* cbx33 need any testing from me this time?
<ogra> lets start from scratch :/
<cbx33> or do you have other volunteers
<ogra> every testing is appreciated :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its everyone's ballgame now
<cbx33> but you're not in such a deep hole as last time?
<ogra> no :)
<cbx33> ok great, I can probably test some tonight
<cbx33> but work is getting to me at the moment
<pips1> ogra, aren't you going to get access to that page, then?
<ogra> tonight is to late ... we'll release RC today ... 
* cbx33 starts downloading
<ogra> pips1, sure we all get access, we're just not allowed to use old data ... it *must* be for this exact build
<pips1> ah, ok
<ogra> livecds are ready as well
<jsgotangco> weee bases loaded
<cbx33> are we going into 20060525 ?
<pips1> on that testing page it says Current Test CD
<pips1> 
<pips1> 20060524 
<pips1> oops
<ogra> iwj is just fixing that page
<cbx33> so it is 25?
<ogra> but right, it should be 25
<pips1> so we can use rsync, right?
<cbx33> lucky you
<jsgotangco> yes
<pips1> ok
<ogra> nice, only 6mins for syncing each install CD :)
<pips1> ogra, on our old testing page it says you *did* test lots of 20060525 builds, so you surely can enter those, no?
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> nope
<ogra> i tested them *on* 25th :)
<jsgotangco> thats an earlier build
<pips1> ah
<jsgotangco> mine too
<ogra> the build we test is still warm :)
<pips1> ok, i see
<ogra> (its less than 30min old)
<pips1> I must be don't something wrong with rsync :-( dapper-install-amd64.iso
<pips1>    128179693  17%   72.82kB/s    2:15:38
<ogra> wait a moment ... that will go down 
<pips1> aha
<jsgotangco> grr burning cd-r is so slow
* jsgotangco ran out of cds
<pips1> oh, no
* pips1 has a big stack of cds sitting here, but the download is so sloow
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> i have a bunch of cd-rw here though
<jsgotangco> but i have to burn them much slower
<pips1> ick, they're more expensive too
<jsgotangco> but they're good for at least 100 rewrite cycles heh
<spacey> time to go to the office
<spacey> bbl
<pips1> yeah, that's right
<cbx33> ogra: am I seeing this right
<cbx33> daily current openoffice is not installable in the report
<ogra> looks like the rsync server has a problem
<ogra> cbx33, nope, these are transitional oo.o2 packages
<ogra> nothing to worry about+
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> they are only for upgrades
<cbx33> sorry, just checking
<ogra> no, thanks for the heads up :)
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> hey pips1 and cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
* jsgotangco wonders if he should grab a dvd
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'd wait for the rsync server to be fixed ;)
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I can;t test DVD so would be good
<ogra> also cat together the live and install iso before rsyncing a dvd, it saves a lot
<jsgotangco> ahh i didnt know it was possible
<pips1> highvoltage, hi
<highvoltage> pips1: what's up?
<pips1> busy testing cds just now, otherwise not much :)
* cbx33 is working python :D, and testing CD's
<cbx33> and working
<pips1> ogra, yeah that rsync is acting up wierd
<jsgotangco> amd64 workstation manual partition is now installing
<cbx33> nice jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> i'm actually taking a lunch break, which is quite enjoyable :)
<jsgotangco> boo
<pips1> hehe
<cbx33> w00t highvoltage 
* highvoltage should try it more often
* cbx33 never takes a "lunch" break
<cbx33> i always work
* highvoltage either
<ogra> break ? 
<pips1> yeah, eating properly is important
<ogra> whats that ? 
<pips1> omg
<cbx33> i eat all day
<cbx33> :D
<highvoltage> i just couldn't get myself to concentrate on a long document, so i'm just going to relax for 10 minutes, and then get back to it. people say that it would work.
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> highvoltage: it does
<cbx33> if you get the chance
<cbx33> thanks for fixing those file permissions
<cbx33> highvoltage: how did you want to handle meeting minutes being posted on the website?
<jsgotangco> poor sflaw he's already awake at this time
<ogra> jsgotangco, s/already/still/
<pips1> highvoltage, cbx33 what did you do to get the template engine sorted?
<jsgotangco> gahh
<cbx33> highvoltage: did it
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you think that should be better on the wiki instead?
<ogra> he's the QA guy these two last weeks are the most important for him
<cbx33> yes, just link through on the drupal site?
<highvoltage> pips1: hehe. it turns out, that there was nothing wrong with the theme engine
<highvoltage> pips1: even though everything (and everyone) pointed there
<pips1> oh?
<highvoltage> pips1: it turns out, the theme has some specific settings about blocks that go to the right, and that we just needed to change it
<highvoltage> pips1: what *is* weird though, is that it didn't happen on my or cbx's local installations, just on the edubuntu server
<pips1> hmm, strange. 
<highvoltage> must be tough to join as QA guy about a month before release
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and his target is to get *all* fields filled on the testing page :)
<ogra> for all flavors
<highvoltage> good target :)
<pips1> the layout breaks on pages with big images in the centre... e.g. http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<highvoltage> pips1: i noticed this afternoon, i'll have to resize those images just slightly
<pips1> right
<highvoltage> at least that's quick and easy :)
<highvoltage> (oh no! i said quick and easy! that means it's going to be long and nasty!)
<jsgotangco> does he have a sparc at home???
<highvoltage> brb
<ogra> jsgotangco, sfllaw ?
<ogra> no idea
<cbx33> why the hell is the live cd downloading quicker than the other
<pips1> the list of confirmed major bugs in launchpad is still rather scary
<pips1> :-/
<cbx33> which types of installation still need to be done?
<ogra> all
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> all arches all installs 
<ogra> (server is gone from the menu)
<ogra> and we dont nedd OEM or netboot testing
<ogra> i'll fix the table accordingly ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm testing live cd install
<pips1> 'Desktop CD' stands for 'Live CD', right?
<cbx33> yes
<pips1> and similarily, 'Alternate CD' means 'Install CD'...
<pips1> ?
<pips1> ah, yes
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> pips1, fixed
<jsgotangco> amd64 workstation manual partition DONE
<ogra> jsgotangco, :P youre ahead of me ... diong the same here
<jsgotangco> should i put my result then?
<ogra> yeah !
<jsgotangco> ok im done on tsting for now
<jsgotangco> time for me to rest
<ogra> jsgotangco, thanks
<pips1> jsgotangco, have a good rest
* cbx33 notes that this latest release is considerably slower over VM
* cbx33 rephrases vmware running under dapper is extremely slow
<pips1> ogra, how does it work with the universe repository? can packages be added for a release, during the release? or is universe "freezed" also?
<ogra> universe has the same freeze dates, but a way more loosely handling of them 
<pips1> ic
<ogra> and its frozen on release day 
<ogra> so nothing can be added after release unless you use the backports repo or someone decides something is important enough to go in -updates
<ogra> development and adding of packages only happens in the development distro
<pips1> hmm, there is this particular zope package I'm interested in... the latest from upstream is in the repos, but many of its dependency packages are missing...
<pips1> what is the packaging "philosophy" in this case? is that package considered to be broken? 
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm moving the mockup wiki page to the real page, mkay?
<cbx33> ogra just a quickie, in python.....resp = dialog.run()   what if the dialog box has Yes or no, what is returned?
<cbx33> highvoltage: ok, but there is a link you need to change
<cbx33> the meetingrecords link
<cbx33> feel free to move it and I'll edit it in a sec
<cbx33> if your happy with it
<ogra> cbx33, dunno from the top of my head, just add a print resp ;)
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, just a sec
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> ok got it
<cbx33> -9 and -8
<cbx33> :D it works
<cbx33> IT'S ALIVE
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> i can see the crazed face of gene wilder in my mind :-)
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, edit!
<cbx33> link ?
<cbx33> i've forgotten the page name :p
<cbx33> oh nevermind
<cbx33> it's on eduvbuntu.org
<pips1> cbx33, have you seen mel brooks' "frankenstein junior"?
<highvoltage> cbx33: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
<cbx33> highvoltage: did you take the images across?
<cbx33> they seem to be missing
<cbx33> sdid you move the page, or copy and paste?
<cbx33> yikes, /me notices he's on the list for the wiki
<highvoltage> cbx33: the cdimage.png file? yes, i did.
<highvoltage> cbx33: ag, yes, i did copy and paste :/
* highvoltage looks at the page again, the images did seem fine
<highvoltage> cbx33: sorry
<pips1> cbx33, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki is complete with images, i.e. works for me
<highvoltage> ah i see the missing images on the right... missed that
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you have local copies left?
<cbx33> :p np
<cbx33> pips1: ther eare some missing images
<pips1> oops, that's right
<cbx33> on hte right
<pips1> -/
* cbx33 made that little cd icon :p
<cbx33> i was so proud of that heheheh
<highvoltage> cbx33: i noticed ;)
<cbx33> little things eh.... :p
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> cbx33: so, you still have local copies of those images?
<cbx33> hmm.....
<pips1> highvoltage, nasty, "promoting" cbx33 just like that ;-)
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> pips1: promoting?
<pips1>  EdubuntuWiki
<pips1> 
<pips1> PeteSavage 
<pips1> :-D
<highvoltage> pips1: he did it himself, ie: he's been very busy on it
<highvoltage> he's probably done more work on Edubuntu wiki pages than anyone else in the last 3 months
<cbx33> :p
<pips1> ah, I thought you did that and was reacting to his comment "cbx33 yikes, /me notices he's on the list for the wiki"
<highvoltage> ah :)
<highvoltage> Burgwork: did you put the contents into https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuEdutainmen ?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: did you perhaps mean to put it into https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuEdutainment ?
* ogra wonders if there is also a Edutainwoman page
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> lol
<ogra> or would that be Edutainwimen ? 
<highvoltage> ogra: almost there
<pips1> lol
<cbx33> ogra: I'm having very bad luck installing it on my normally VERY fast VMware machine
<ogra> can you switch off the frambuffer somehow ? 
<ogra> i heard about that, seems to be graphics related
<cbx33> hmm.....can i do that on edubuntu boot?
<ogra> it shall also go faster if you run vmware fullscreen i heard
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i did actually post to that mail 
<cbx33> but it was from an alternative email address that wasn't on the ML
<ogra> ah
<cbx33> so it didnt get through
<cbx33> it's actually unusable
<cbx33> i can't install at all
<cbx33> now 2 things have changed since then
<cbx33> I upgraded to dapper
* pips1 is about to do the 'disable dhcp on router' dance again, in order to install and test the ed. server
<cbx33> and the new release came out
<cbx33> pips1: hehehe
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know what this is about? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuUserManagement?highlight=%28Edubuntu%29
<highvoltage> ogra: do we still need that page, or can we delete it?
<ogra> highvoltage, thats an obsolete spec from montreal we dropped ... feel free to delete that page
<cbx33> highvoltage: I'll try to do some wiki cleanup tonight
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> did you wanna work through that with me?
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, great. i'm doing some now to. i can't get myself to do work work right now so i'm doing edubuntu work now and work work tonight :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: sure, i'll do it now
<cbx33> ok let's 
<cbx33> go
<cbx33> the first 4
<highvoltage> cbx33: i've already deleted quite a few pages ;)
<cbx33> are you happy they are covered by ESA?
<cbx33> cool
<highvoltage> no
<highvoltage> you're refering to the first 4 links in EdubuntuWikiCleanup, right?
<cbx33> ok,
<cbx33> can we condense
<cbx33> into just one page?
<highvoltage> yes, that would be great
<highvoltage> what do you propose the page should be called?
<cbx33> ok, I'm thinking should we just delete them all, seeing as they are probably OOD now
<highvoltage> it is kind of obsolete, but useful for historical reasons
<highvoltage> yeah, they are
<cbx33> EdubuntuInstalledApplications
<highvoltage> good choice, i think it's best to merge them all first, and then edit it down
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> want me to do that
<cbx33> I can just copy paste all pages into one?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, that sounds good
<cbx33> ok I'll do that now
<highvoltage> ogra: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuAutomaticLoadBalancing should be a spec in Launchpad instead, right?
<ogra> highvoltage, drop it, its empty
<ogra> if we ever get to clustering or round robin setups for ltsp it can get a new spec
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<highvoltage> noted
<cbx33> highvoltage: done
<lucasvo> bzr is cool
<lucasvo> http://viewbzr.vincisolutions.org/mercury?cmd=changelog;rev=
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstalledApplications
<highvoltage> cbx33: did you delete the old pages?
<cbx33> not yet
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx33> if I do I'll have to check for links
<cbx33> I'll make a note on wikickllean up that they are going to be deleted
<highvoltage> oh no. windowmaker is so awful: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWindowMaker
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok
<ogra> highvoltage, to tell this to mhz
<ogra> s/to/dont/
<cbx33> you're lucky he's not here
* highvoltage makes mental note to convince mhz to use something decent, like xfce
<lucasvo> xfce is much better!
<highvoltage> absolutely
<ogra> no need for that, read the page :)
<cbx33> highvoltage: TeachersPet ?
<ogra> mark that as spec please
<cbx33> ogra: livecd is unusable on VMware :S
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> highvoltage: I'm suggesting a specs link on the edubuntuwiki page
<ogra> there should also be a note that s-c-p is there as an initial implementation to be extended
<highvoltage> cbx33: how so? it's easily searchable in launchpad
<ogra> (i dont mean a LP spec, just that people know its only a brainstorming page)
<cbx33> no
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think we can have a launchpad spec link from the www instead
<cbx33> but any that we come across can then be link to that page
<highvoltage> ah, ok
<highvoltage> geez, i don't know what to do about teacherspet. shall we come back to that later?
<highvoltage> cbx33: the WorkstationDefinitions, i agree with you there, we can move it to a Glossary page in Drupal
<ogra> highvoltage, see above ... add a sentence at the top like: this is the page where we collect ideas on how to enhance our student-control-panel
<ogra> and keep it as it is 
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachingTools
<ogra> isnt that one from hedgemage ? 
<cbx33> elkner
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, did it
* ogra looks
<ogra> cbx33, thats crap, but if you delete it, you'll have fun with elkner
<cbx33> ogra: i know
<highvoltage> ogra: i just changed ideas to 'ideas and enhancements'
<ogra> additionally its pre breezy
<ogra> highvoltage, fine 
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think we'll have to mark some pages as 'talk to person x about this page'
<highvoltage> cbx33: so that we can deal with a page without intruding or hurting someone's work
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i agree
<cbx33> highvoltage: you still editing that page?
<highvoltage> /Edubuntu that links to /EdubuntuWiki, we need to keep that, since /Edubuntu was the original Edubuntu page on the Ubuntu Wiki, before the two got merged. I've seen some sites hardlink to it, so we need to keep it there
<highvoltage> cbx33: nope
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll edit now
<cbx33> done
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> now where were we?
<highvoltage> deleting more pages...
<cbx33> nice from the wikicleanup page?
<highvoltage> from there too, i deleted some other old pages too, like empty theme pages
<cbx33> I'm thinking we should keep that page for a while and add on there pages we delete
<cbx33> highvoltage: are you checking for links
<highvoltage> cbx33: for sensitive pages, yes. i mean, there are some pages that you know someone won't link to
<highvoltage> brb too...
<cbx33> suew
<cbx33> sure
<highvoltage> cbx33: i took Edubuntu out of that page, we're not going to do anything with it anyway
<highvoltage> cbx33: i was going to take things out as we go along, but i see what you mean by listing it there first, so that we keep a temporary record?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i think it would be a good idea
<cbx33> along with a reason why it was deleted
<pips1> installCD, erase disk, amd64 PASS
<jsgotangco> awesome
<ogra> yay
<highvoltage> ogra: do we still need this page? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuData
<ogra> 7me doesnt even know what that is ...
* ogra looks
<cbx33> highvoltage: looks cooky?
<ogra> lol
<ogra> wikipwdia ~150MB
<ogra> hahaha
<ogra> what were we dreaming :)
<cbx33> indeed
<highvoltage> hehe
<cbx33> my guess redundant now
<ogra> highvoltage, i think you can either keep it as a suggestion collection or just wipe it ...
<highvoltage> ogra: i told everyone at the summit that it's *not* that small :)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i think i'm going to mark it as something we need to look at again, i have a 200MB wikipedia collection that's very nice, that we're going to use in tuxlabs
<cbx33> highvoltage: nice
<ogra> i mean, its clear we'll never have that much space, but probably people want to package stuff for add on CDs so thats a good collection of suggestions what to use for that
<cbx33> maybe like an add on disk
<highvoltage> ogra: we could possibly add that to a second cd, assuming we'll have space (and assuming we'll have a second cd)
<highvoltage> ogra: it could certainly be in universe some day, right?
<cbx33> highvoltage: i think that's an excellent idea
<ogra> highvoltage, yeps
<highvoltage> great!
<highvoltage> ogra: do you think it's likely that there will ever be a gui tool for the chroot dist-upgrade?
<highvoltage> ogra: (sorry for these feature request questions so close to release, btw)
<pips1_> ogra, following your LTSPClientKEymap tutorial, I entered gksudo "gedit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf" and got (gedit:10271): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager:
<pips1_> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified  are supported and host-based authentication failed.
<pips1_> ** (gedit:10271): WARNING **: Hit unhandled case 1 (File not found) in gedit_unr ecoverable_saving_error_message_area_new. Do I need to 'touch' the file "lts.conf" first for that to work, or smth? 
<pips1_> I'm now "stuck" in gksudo... need to kill it off...
<JaneW> whew, finally got the SoC mails out
<JaneW> that was a marathon
<JaneW> cbx33: http://janewsblog.blogspot.com/ ;)
<pips1_> sorry for the noise, ignore my last question :-)
<highvoltage> JaneW: do i assume correctly that this was never released? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuPressRelease
<highvoltage> JaneW: can we delete it?
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes I think it can be deleted
<jsgotangco> Edubuntu amd64 Install CD auto-resize PASS
<pips1> nice
<cbx33> eheheh JaneW :)
<cbx33> that rawks
<JaneW> cbx33: I just showed ani-ME gto my son and said 'who is that?' and he immediately said 'You' *beame*
<JaneW> then he saw the homies and mentioned that it was similar, and I said the same person made them, and so he said 'oh so they decided to put your face on it'
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> lol!
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> that's cute
<JaneW> so there you have it, there must be some (facial - at least) resemblance
* cbx33 decides to save that to show lisa
<highvoltage> JaneW: your face on another woman's body ;)
* highvoltage ducjs
<highvoltage> *ducks
<cbx33> highvoltage: I'd do more than duck
<JaneW> cbx33: please thank her for me, I am very flattered, impressed and grateful.
<cbx33> this is action adventurer JaneW we're talking about
* highvoltage hides under desk
<cbx33> np
<highvoltage> ogra: do we still want this page? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuOneDotZeroRoadmap
<JaneW> cbx33: yeah well highvoltage has seen me tuck into food, drink and cake etc, so he harbours no illusions about me ;P
<cbx33> isn't that linked to on the front wiki page highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> hmmm.. it shouldn't be... 5.10 was released ages ago :)
<cbx33> oh yeh, but i mean we need to remove it if it is
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think you're thinking of DapperReleaseSchedule
<cbx33> possibly
<cbx33> ahh...no i was thinking about the events section
<jsgotangco> pffttt
<cbx33> sup jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> working not like you slackers, chatting on irc
<cbx33> I'm working I'll have you know :p
<jsgotangco> :D
<cbx33> worked my little ass off today :p
* jsgotangco writes to uncle ogra for a PPC
<highvoltage> dejavu :)
<pips1> hey jinty 
<cbx33> highvoltage: howz it going
<cbx33> I'm back now for a while
<highvoltage> cbx33: good
<highvoltage> hehe. this is sweet
<highvoltage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuBelowZero/EdubuntuTalk?highlight=%28Edubuntu%29
<highvoltage> """Oliver ogra Grawert
<highvoltage> He works with Jane W to make edubuntu. """
<cbx33> hehehe
<jsgotangco> cleaning up namespaces?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: cleaning up wiki full stop
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep, and old obsolete pages. there are *many* of them
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> for some reason i have very little interest of wikis
<cbx33> I'm afraid I may not have much time tonight
* jsgotangco uses them but not so hot about them
<cbx33> I have to do some flash animation
<cbx33> yuk !!!
<jsgotangco> i like flirting with such sometimes
<cbx33> flirting with flash
<cbx33> that's a good title fo a book
<cbx33> but not to be confused with
<cbx33> flirting with flashing
<jsgotangco> lol
<cbx33> that can get you in trouble
<cbx33> not that I'd know about such things
<pips1> pffft
<highvoltage> JaneW: can we delete https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuShippingPlans ?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: do you watch the premiereship?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: not really
<cbx33> I'm aware of it's existance
<cbx33> and no it was not me streaking on there :p
<jsgotangco> ok i was hoping to see you edubuntu streak there sometime
<jsgotangco> oh well
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> tell you what, boy would that get ubuntu a lot of media coverage
* highvoltage needs to go, bye!
<cbx33> we should get someone to make some edubuntu crop circles :p
<cbx33> bye hi
<jsgotangco> lol
<pips1> highvoltage: there he went in a flash!
<cbx33> pips1: :p
* pips1 wishes he could speed up his download
<pips1>  339740348  47%    1.70MB/s    0:03:32
<pips1>  <-- If that were only true...
<cbx33> ogra: i386 has crashed installing on my VMware machine
<cbx33> configuring python2.4-zopeinterface
<cbx33> 60%
<cbx33> it's just sitting there
<cbx33> i can still activater a console
<cbx33> anything you want me to try
<cbx33> bearing in mind my vmware installs worked fine the other day
<pips1> ogra, FYI I found out what country code i need to use for the clients for swiss-german keyboard. It's 'ch' (not 'de_CH')!
<cbx33> pips1: :D
<cbx33> I'm gonna have to packup soon ogra, I'll try to suspend my VM
<cbx33> so we can investigate later if you want to
<pips1> I need to go now too ...
<pips1> it's a shame that powerpc live cd hasn't finished downloading yet.
<pips1> i'll need to test that later this evening
<pips1> observation: the log out screen takes aaages to appear :-(
<pips1> both on server itself and on thin clients...
<mhz> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 1h 4m 20s ago, saying: 'He works with Jane W to make edubuntu. """'.
<blue-frog> I installed edubuntu from the cd install in vmware >> no problem. works fine
<mhz> blue-frog: good news
<blue-frog> if i install edubuntu on my laptop using the livecd install then do apt-get edubuntu server, the final result will be exactly the same than installing from edubuntu install cd?
<mhz> blue-frog: yup
<mhz> apt-get install edubuntu-server
<blue-frog> yes yes
<mhz> apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<blue-frog> *lazy on keyboard...*
<mhz> and finally, ltsp-build-client
<mhz> then you should have same results
<blue-frog> desktop no need as am using edu livecd
<mhz> oh, yes
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> that was kind of an automated response :)
<mhz> blue-frog: I also tried netbooting and then the aforementioned procedure
<blue-frog> I could try to wipe my entire HDD so that I can let the install finish blind but I don't want to reinstall freaking windows I use for my tests of miexd networks
<mhz> of course, that gave a ubuntu server netboot install only because Edubuntu does not have a netboot image
<blue-frog> I have a problem with edu/ubuntu install on my sony. I have a black screen at the xserver resolution config, then the install goes on alright but as I have windows am messing up the grub install (as I do it blind). tried to install grub from rescue mode afterwrds following wiki but with no luck
<jsgotangco> good night
<Laser_away> my goodness, this can is way to active :-)
<Laser_away> it takes forever for me to read the backlog
<jsgotangco> ?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<blue-frog> wow think I made it finishing the install blind :)
<blue-frog> rebooting...
<blue-frog> yes yes yes yes yes
<Laser_away> opps sorry, I should watch what I'm typing better. s/can/channel/
<blue-frog> Laser_away, *should watch what he is drinking :) *
<blue-frog> *in his can*
<Laser_away> lol
<blue-frog> got a ubuntu question
<blue-frog> the install asked me for a password but not for a user account name, is that a trick to confuse the ennemy?
<blue-frog> which leaves me at login scrren without a user name to write in
<Laser_away> which install?
<blue-frog> ubuntu cd install
<blue-frog> was surprised to jump directly to password during install that I did a go back
<blue-frog> but then jumped again to password so i thought oh well there must be a default user name
<blue-frog> such as admin or ubuntu, but apparently not
* mhz has no idea what to suggest there
<blue-frog> gonna go in recovery mode to have a look
<blue-frog> and will reinstall for the 10th time today to see if it happens again..
<blue-frog> *is getting very good at blind install on its laptop
<blue-frog> his*
<blue-frog> oh yeah got it cho0se the oem install
<blue-frog> so iwas right assuming there was a default user name created... oem
<ogra> blue-frog, can you add your installation results to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current ?
<ogra> btw, installing edubuntu-server doesnt give you the same as an edubuntu insallation, you have to set up all of ltsp manually
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<blue-frog> rah.. well am trying (yet) another blind install of edubuntu, hopefully will succed at some poinmt :)
<highvoltage> booya!
<Burgwork> highvoltage, hmm?
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> hi Burgwork 
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<highvoltage> Burgwork: just a loud expression of hello. i don't know where it comes from though :)
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<Burgwork> salut cbx33 
<cbx33> anyone know of an opensource sound effect library
<cbx33> LaserJock, 
<cbx33> w00t
<blue-frog> to be sure cause I have a doubt now, on the edubuntu install cd, when I choose install workstation, it's installing an edubuntu server?
<cbx33> i fixed the python problem
<cbx33> and i have made an update
<ogra> blue-frog, its installing what you chose ... a workstation ....
<cbx33> ogra, did you see my message earlier about that VMware install that failed
<ogra> (in opposition to a server, which is the default)
<ogra> cbx33, yes
<ogra> did anybody else any test installs ? 
<blue-frog> I think am pretty much messed up with the cd's I have downloadded then
<blue-frog> i have 7 choices on this dvd, amogst them are start or install edubuntu and install a workstation so if i choose first I install edu server or am i using a livecd?
<blue-frog> booting a livecd... so i have the wrong dvd :(
<ogra> as i said before, i havent seen the dvd at all, but i know both images are on the dvd
<blue-frog> maybe but not in the boot menu then
<blue-frog> no rescue mode menu either
<blue-frog> so i guess that if I want to install edu server from the dvd I have I have to do F6 at boot and change the command line?
<LaserJock> cbx33: get my email?
<LaserJock> ogra: quick question, will installing ltsp-server on an Ubuntu install get me everything I need for to set up an edubuntu-like LTSP?
<ogra> with ltsp-server you need an external dhcp server that needs to be properly configured
<ogra> and you need to install openssh-server alonside, its only in recommends or suggests ...
<ogra> for a completely standalone server use ltsp-server-stansalone (and openssh-server) 
<ogra> after installing that package you run: sudo ltsp-build-client, edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match a static ip on the server, restart dhcpd and you are done
<LaserJock> ok, so I have a DSL router that has dhcp, is that going to be a problem?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> unless you can adjust parameters for rootpath and the kernel in its dhcp server
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> so much for my brilliant idea ;-)
<ogra> just switch dhcp off
<ogra> and use the edubuntu dhcp server :)
<LaserJock> so the dhcp *has* to be coming from the edubuntu server?
<ogra> no
<ogra> but if your router doesnt support the necessary settings, then yes
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I was also trying to think of a way to do it at work too
<ogra> but its quite trivial to set up
<LaserJock> ok, at work all the computers have static IPs, can ltsp work with that?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you need a dhcp server for PXE booting
<blue-frog> ogra i need your help the cd /dvd/ images are giving me a hard time, i followed the link you gave https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current  then from there i clicked on DVD http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/  then I try to rsync using rsync -az --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/dapper-dvd-i386.iso udj:/media/data/iso/ubuntu/dapper-dvd-i386.iso, as a result it gives me @ERROR: Unknown module 'dvd'
<LaserJock> wonderful :/
<blue-frog> i mean without the udj: of course..
<ogra> try rsync -az --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/dvd/current/dapper-dvd-i386.iso
<LaserJock> blue-frog: you want to test the Ubuntu DVD?
<blue-frog> I want to rsync the dvd i have indeed as on the one i have I have either live eduubnut or install workstation, no other relevant choices
<LaserJock> blue-frog: but you want Ubuntu or Edubuntu?
<blue-frog>  edu
<ogra> try rsync -az --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/dvd/current/dapper-dvd-i386.iso then
<blue-frog> and later ubu
<blue-frog> I just want to understand why I don't have the menus you are all talking about... :(
<LaserJock> how has been talking about DVD menus? I didn't know anybody was using them
<blue-frog> well you are talking about menus from the install cds, i expect to find them on the dvd as well...
<blue-frog> *off to read a story to kid, brb*
<cbx33> LaserJock, yes
<cbx33> I got your email
<cbx33> LaserJock, if you have a windows DHCP server at work you can use that
<pips1> ogra, just tested the powerpc install cd on my imac (G5) and failed. Same failure as two days ago. Should I list that in the testing/current table?
<ogra> pips1, yes please and file a bug
<ogra> (note all relevant info about the HW and attach /var/log/installer/syslog to the bug)
<LaserJock> cbx33: I have *no* dhcp server at work :-)
<ogra> LaserJock, so nobody would use one if there were one, perfect ;)
<cbx33> LaserJock, yeh what ogra said
<cbx33> that's a good thing
<LaserJock> hmm
<cbx33> LaserJock, how are we gonna work that bazaar repo?
<ogra> LaserJock, just do an edubuntu default install and everytime you switch the PCs to PXE boot, they'll be thin clients
<ogra> if you switch them back they will just use their static IPs
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, maybe I'll just do that. The thing is I already have an Ubuntu install on the machine
<pips1> ogra, i filed the bug here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/46138
<LaserJock> so I was considering just adding the LTSP part onto my current Ubuntu install
<ogra> then install ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server and do what i said above
<ogra> pips1, thanks, please note it on the wiki
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, thanks. I think I'll try it ;-)
<pips1> ogra, I'll try to get /var/log/installer/syslog as well
<ogra> pips1, thats only in the system after reboot, else its /var/log/syslog in the installer
<pips1> ogra, I can't get a console :-(
<ogra> alt-f2 doesnt help ? 
<pips1> nope
<ogra> :(
<pips1> yeah
<pips1> the ventilator is running but otherwise it seems pretty much frozen
<pips1> I remember there are some instructions (wiki page) for system freezes... would that help? but I guess not much I can do without a console, right?
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know if iMacs PXE boot?
<cbx33> LaserJock, no they don;t
<cbx33> do they?
<ogra> LaserJock, you need some magic in the dhcpd.conf for them ...
<ogra> but they netboot by holding down N on boot
<cbx33> :S
<LaserJock> ok, well it probably wouldn't work anyway since it is an intel iMac
<ogra> oh, no, that wont work yet
<LaserJock> it would be reaaaly sweet to be able to do that though
<pips1> what key is the 'SysRq' key that the DebuggingSystemCrash wiki page talks about?
<cbx33> print screen normally
<cbx33> pips1, 
<highvoltage> ctrl+print screen
<pips1> ah, cheers !
<cbx33> highvoltage, is it ctrl+printscreen? 
<cbx33> i never knew that
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
* pips1 will try "When the crash occurs, press Alt+SysRq+1 followed by Alt+SysRq+t."
<cbx33> so would that be Ctrl+Alt+PrintScreen+t
<highvoltage> erm... sorry, now i'm not so sure myself :/
<highvoltage> it might be plus the ctrl... i don't know. normally, just SysRq = ctrl+PrtSc
<highvoltage> pips1: try both and let us know :)
<blue-frog> *is back
<pips1> erm... there isn't a 'PrtSc' key on the imac keyboard?!
<pips1> any mac experts here?
<cbx33> oh.....sorry thought you mean pc
<pips1> no, it on my shiny new imac
<pips1> my first mac since a looong time
<LaserJock> nice, I've got a 2 month old iMac
<LaserJock> my first mac
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> so LaserJock do you know what the equivalent key for SysRq or PrtSc would be?
<LaserJock> I don't, I was just staring at my keyboard trying to figure it out
* pips1 grabs that 'mac os x tiger unleashed' wallop of a book
<LaserJock> neato, I've just got the little booklet thing they ship with it
<cbx33> awww...
<cbx33> my rubs LaserJock
<cbx33> 's hair
<cbx33> he's a mac baby
<LaserJock> hehe, I even figured out how to get glade and pygtk installed on it for you cbx33 
<cbx33> awww. LaserJock you rock
* pips1 tosses the book aside, since it definitely covers almost everything about *software*, but not "silly" hardware questions, like "what key is the PC's 'SysRc' / 'PrtSc' equivalent".
<pips1> nah
<pips1> i'll have to google about this later, now I got to go
<ogra> pips1, thanks for testing
<pips1> ogra, I'll reference it in the testing/current anyway.
<pips1> np
<pips1> cu l8r!
<ogra> ciao, and thanks again !
<blue-frog> ogra any reason why I can't rsync cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso? it gives me  connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]   rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(434)
<blue-frog> had same error using your rsyncer tool
<blue-frog> ./rsyncer.sh --arch i386  only rsynced dapper-live-i386.iso
<ogra> hmm, i'm currently rsyncing the dvd here
<ogra> seems to go well
<blue-frog> not dvd now :) just cd :)
<ogra> dapper-dvd-amd64.iso
<ogra>    899238625  26%  203.93kB/s    3:26:22
<blue-frog> am currently rsync the dvd, so far so good
<ogra> indeed i rsynced the CDs before
<blue-frog> but i can't rsync cd but the live one
<blue-frog> i try to rsync everything to try to get the same cds /dvds you are all using cause it seems that we are not speaking of the same cds /dvds :)
<blue-frog> for example on this edu cd i rsync yesterday when I boot i have the following choices... install in text mode, install a workstation, check cd, rescue, mem,boot from hdd
<blue-frog> so is install in text mode the edubuntu server install?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> yep
<blue-frog> ahhhhh
<ogra> the one you get if you simply hit enter on boot :)
<blue-frog> yep but as opposed to install wrkstation right after it, took it for the nongraphical install so i didn't bother
<blue-frog> is it on purpose?
<blue-frog> not to write install edubuntu server
<ogra> it wasnt changed by me, and was changed just recently, it used to say "install to the haddisk"
<ogra> *harddisk
<blue-frog> ok but why not install edubuntu server (just plain and simple?)
<ogra> its because the ubuntu CD naming scheme changed
<blue-frog> oh la lal la :)
<ogra> the install CD (which is our default) is called alternate textmode install CD for ubuntu
<ogra> so thats made quite prominent ... even in the menu ... semms we just inherited that wording
<blue-frog> *is afraid that we will have soon a lot of people coming here saying that edubuntu server is not working as they will all install a workstation being scared by the "text mode stuff"
<ogra> the CD cover text is pretty clear (if you hit enter ...blah)
<blue-frog> when you get a cd from shipit yes... but when you download..
<ogra> but i agree, we probably should revert it to "install to harddisk"
<blue-frog> I dind't read the naming scheme cause i still don't get what problem underlies in naming it edubuntu server install, do you have a link for it pls?
<blue-frog> i mean for the naming scheme thinggy
<ogra> thats an ubuntu marketing thing ... the install CD isnt on shipit anymore, so the live CD was renamed to desktop CD 
<ogra> and the former ubuntu install CD is now called alternate CD
<blue-frog> just a question with no offence from my part but just sad curioisity, are marketing people testing the cds sometimes, meaning just booting them at least
<ogra> since we send out the install and not the live CD via shipit for edubuntu, we kept the old scheme
<ogra> blue-frog, the install in textmode is inherited automatically from ubuntu
<blue-frog> yes yes I read what you are telling me
<ogra> i wasnt aware of it before you told me and i cant change it now 
<blue-frog> rah if only I didn't get demotivated for so long...
<ogra> for ubuntu (which has no workstation mode) thats the right wording
<blue-frog> could you have something on the download page stating this in big? saying to install edubuntu server they have to choose text mode?
<blue-frog> cause I know that all downloaders will end with workstation in the end otherwise
<ogra> nope, i'd rather fix the text
<blue-frog> well if you can yes of coursee it's best
<ogra> i just cant do it now
<blue-frog> oh by now you rgiht now but not before final release?
<blue-frog> you mean right now
<blue-frog> i rephrase...
<blue-frog> by now you mean you can't right now but will do for final release
<ogra> i'll talk with Kamion (who has to make the actual change) but he's out for the evening now
<blue-frog> *trying another blind install, hoping he will succeed on giving blindly the right answers for grub :) *
<ogra> enter should suffice :)
<cbx33> ogra, got time for a quick python question in pm?
* Amaranth stabs willow
<Burgwork> Amaranth, really, having that much fun already?
<Amaranth> heh
<Burgwork> think a whole summer's worth of quality fun like this!
<Amaranth> i'm thinking i'd get done faster doing the whole thing from scratch :P
<Burgwork> heh. Here anything from the author?
<Amaranth> nope
<LaserJock> Amaranth: it's written in Python, right?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Burgwork> LaserJock, there is your project!
<LaserJock> Burgwork: no thanks
<LaserJock> I've got a little one going with cbx33
<Burgwork> right
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> we'll see how that goes
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> I don't think trying out programming with a rewrite of willow would be wise for me
<Burgwork> LaserJock, what little project?
<LaserJock> cbx33: ^^ ?
<cbx33> gISOMount
<cbx33> you can guess pretty much most of it from the title :p
<cbx33> but will be a good introduction
<Burgwork> what is the use case?
<cbx33> say you download an iso, or even have one stored onthe computer and you want to mount it....as a virtual CD
<cbx33> yeh you can mount via command line
<Burgwork> hmm
<cbx33> but you could do it graphicall via gISOMount
<Burgwork> are you going to make a hook in nautilus for this as well?
<cbx33> i was hoping to
<Burgwork> for me, that is the kind of thing that would be the most useful
<Burgwork> in fact, if you can make nautilus simply understand them, that would be rocking
<cbx33> well we'll work on it
<LaserJock> I even have a case where a company distributed their proprietar driver as an .iso
<cbx33> Burgwork, kinda like, right click an iso -> mount to... :p
<cbx33> that'd be cool
<bluefrog-10> at last after two days of typing blindly things I've succeeded installing edu server on my freaking vaio
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> nice one bluefrog-10 
<LaserJock> \o/
<bluefrog-10> meaning if you have a problem of installing edu server with no screen and on pc with a windows system on it, just call me... :)
<cbx33> LaserJock, looks like we could be onto something really useful
<LaserJock> perhaps :-)
<bluefrog-10> in the help toics (system >> help >> system doc) there is no links to the getting started page by jonathan carter?
<bluefrog-10> so if someone if getting the cd and installing it without an internet connection he is dead in the water regarding the finetuning of dhcp?
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, getting started isn;t in edubuntu docs
<bluefrog-10> sad
<cbx33> well as far as I know
<crimsun> ogra: ping(unlikely?), if you have a few minutes to spare and are on dapper/ppc
<ogra> erm
<cbx33> ogra, am i right?
<ogra> gettingstarted is the only content of edubuntu-docs currently
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> ogra, what was I creating then?
<ogra> crimsun, i am on dapper ppc 
<crimsun> ogra: is dmix working properly for you?
<bluefrog-10> yes online but not accessible if no internet connction, am i correct?
<ogra> crimsun, as far as i can tell yes
<ogra> bluefrog-10, yes
<ogra> bluefrog-10, it was a space problem
<crimsun> ogra: ok, thanks
<cbx33> so getting started isn't in the edubuntu-docs package is it?
<ogra> crimsun, but i'm still running a -20 kernel on this ibook
<ogra> cbx33, read abopve
<crimsun> ogra: that's ok, I'm chasing an alsa-lib issue
<ogra> thats outdated as werll
<ogra> *well
<crimsun> ogra: as long as it's 1.0.10-2ubuntuFoo, that's what matters
<cbx33> ogra, sorry dude it must be late....I'm still confused
<cbx33> but nevermind
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> but by the looks of it i have to also test ppc isos today (even i'm pretty exhausted after a night with 3h of sleep) so i can taest that later on a liveCD or testinstall
<ogra> crimsun, 1.0.10-2ubuntu1 here
<crimsun> ogra: that's fine. (It doesn't affect ppc but i386/ice17*, but the syntax for the format is what I'm concerned about)
<ogra> ok
<crimsun> (thanks again)
<bluefrog-10> where all that happens during installation is logged pls, am filling in a bug report and I would like to see if I find a trace of my screen goes black somewhere?
<ogra> in the installed system thats in /var/log/installer/syslog
<bluefrog-10> k
<bluefrog-10> do i have to be root to open /var/log/installer/syslog, using log viewer as admin user it tells me it's not a log file?
<bluefrog-10> euh hang on the install created user can't sudo?
<bluefrog-10> ah caps..
<bluefrog-10> ok sudo cat makes the trick
<ogra> sudo chmod a+r /var/log/installer/syslog
<bluefrog-10> ok i have it...one more question
<bluefrog-10> when filling in the bug what files do I attach only syslog or all the files in va/.../installer
<ogra> syslog and keep the others in case kamion needs them
<bluefrog-10> k
<bluefrog-10> I made a search in dapper bugs apparently will be the first one to fill in bugs for sony vaio, 
<bluefrog-10> oh no file management menu where you tell your puter that you want single click has disappeared as well :(
<bluefrog-10> are gnome devs trying to erase all that makes user's life easier?
<ogra> i have this here in my nautilus settings
<ogra> in the behavior tab
<bluefrog-10> ah nautilus settings ... looking for it ty
<bluefrog-10> ok got it was looking for the "old" menu in system >pref
<bluefrog-10> 20 minutes on dapper and I find it much faster than breezy... cool
<cbx33> wish i could contact highvoltage
<cbx33> i need to ask him where he got to on the edubuntu wiki thingajigy
<bluefrog-10> cbx33, familiar with bug reporting?
<cbx33> yes
<bluefrog-10> am filling one..
<bluefrog-10> have to click submit then edit it again to attach files?
<cbx33> yes
<bluefrog-10> ah :( ok ty
<bluefrog-10> then how do I affect it to ubuntu AND edubuntu or i just leave it ubuntu as it is?
<cbx33> what pacakge is it
<bluefrog-10> no package (well to my knowledge) it's my black screen problem during install
<ogra> always leave ubuntu ... there is no edubuntu in malone ...
<bluefrog-10> ok
<cbx33> ah, then it'll be the install pacakge....what's that called ogra 
<ogra> if its a edubuntu specific package, assign it to edubuntu-bugs ...
<ogra> debian-installer 
<bluefrog-10> oh so i put debian installer o
<bluefrog-10> ok
<ogra> might be the kernel or X but d-i is a good start for such a bug ...
<bluefrog-10> oh come on i get an error while trying to attach..
<cbx33> ooooooh ESA is looking nice in drupal :D
<bluefrog-10> ah title
<LaserJock> cbx33: URL?
<cbx33> LaserJock, unfortunately it's not published yet
<LaserJock> doh
<cbx33> highvoltage didn't want me to publish just yet
<Burgwork> cbx33, is the long term plan for it to live in drupal?
<cbx33> Burgwork, that's what we discussed
<cbx33> isn;t it...drupal and scribus
<Burgwork> yep
<cbx33> phew
<LaserJock> to bad the CDs are so overfilled, it would be fun to put more docs on the CD
<ogra> we'll make space for them in edgy
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> ogra, there is a page highvoltage ported cross from moin
<cbx33> it's still in moin format, which of course doesn't work in drupal
<cbx33> think he'd mind if I formatted it up for him?
<ogra> nope, i dont think he'd mind
<cbx33> ok done
<bluefrog-10> sry to bother again, If i were to patch a sony acpi driver would the following command be correct, pls?   patch -i /path/to/sony_acpi.ko sony-patch
<crimsun> bluefrog-10: sony-patch is an xdelta?
<bluefrog-10> wow no just copy/paste in a file information from a web site
<crimsun> you can't patch a binary like that
<crimsun> you probably mean to patch the kernel source and recompile that module
<bluefrog-10> crimsun, can I pm you the info I found about that?
<bluefrog-10> maybe you can explain to me then cause it's chinese to me
<crimsun> give me a url, sure
<bluefrog-10> not url it's in my inbox a mail i received long ago from a bug i filled
<bluefrog-10> the url otherwise is http://developer.berlios.de/projects/fsfn/  (the mail is talking about that as well
<bluefrog-10> crimsun, if it implies recompiling the kernel don't bother explaining to me :) I won't go that far
<crimsun> it does involve recompiling the kernel.
<crimsun> well, you really only need to build the module
<bluefrog-10> well too bad I'll do without my fn keys then ty
<pygi> eh, little obstacle, and you already give up bluefrog-10 
<bluefrog-10> well at another time maybe, I really need a working edubuntu server to make a demo next week, I haven't earned a single euro in more thatn one year (on the dole) so if I want to create my company (last chance for me to get a job) I don't have time to fiddle with freaking fn keys :)
<bluefrog-10> partimage is my best friend so when demo is reday and image is done, well i'll give a shot not before :)
<cbx33> bluefrog-10, good idea :p
<bluefrog-10> already have much to do with samb-ldap and mail server on same edubuntu server before tuesday
<cbx33> samba is that
<bluefrog-10> *hopes his samba-ldap script which was working on breezy will make wonders on dapper*
<cbx33> right nn guys+gals
<bluefrog-10> be
<bluefrog-10> bye
<bluefrog-10> same for me hit the sac time
<LaserJock> any Edubuntu people up still?
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> ogra: can you comment on the color scheme in http://mdke.org/tmp/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/
<LaserJock> is it Edubuntu enough?
<ogra> yep
<Burgwork> LaserJock, we should have a palette somewhere
<ogra> the fonts are a bit to big
<ogra> ast least the author names could be half size
<Burgwork> ogra, it is actually my grand scheme. I don't think I am getting enough recognition :0
<Burgwork> :)
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> Burgwork, actually the logo is our palette
<Burgwork> ah
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'll suggest you for the nobel price one day :)
<Burgwork> prize, you mean?
<ogra> that should give you enough recognition
<ogra> inmdeed, i'm up since 60h or so and only had a 3h nap ... my grammar and vocabulary suck a bit
<ogra> still 8 test installs to do ...
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:jsgotangco] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Dapper RC is out
<scubes13> hello guys, first - I am using kubuntu (not edubuntu), but I was told to ask here
<scubes13> I have freenx up and running on my kubuntu desktop server, I need to be able to boot the thin clients from the server - I was told about the pxes project, but I am having a hard time finding hard info on how to setup the kubuntu box to push connections to the pxe clients - any input, anyone?
<scubes13> even docs for that matter
<LaserJock> hmm, I have no idea about freenx and thin clients
<LaserJock> edubuntu uses LTSP
<scubes13> right, I just figured that LTSP prob used the pxes to allow clients to boot - I may be wrong in that assumption...
<LaserJock> yeah, it uses PXE to boot over the network
<scubes13> my thought is that if I can get the client to boot up into pxes via PXE on the server, then from there I can configure the NX client to go from there
<LaserJock> hmm, I just don't know enough about it to know
<scubes13> but as for pushing the PXE from the server, I dont even know where to begin - I realize it takes tftp and that I need to push the clients to look for the tftp via my dhcp server
<scubes13> gotya :(
<scubes13> :)
<LaserJock> is there a reason to use freenx over LTSP?
<scubes13> just seems to be lighter, esp across modems/remote lans, etc
<ogra> sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server && sudo ltsp-build-client ... then edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match a static interface on the server, restart the dhcp server and you are done ...
<ogra> note that you cant (shouldnt) use two dhcp servers in one network
<spacey> scubes13: ltsp is mostly used on a local area network
<spacey> on modems/wan freenx would be useful
<ogra> yep
<scubes13> yeah, that was why I was looking at freenx, b/c we work a good bit remotely
<spacey> b/c?
<spacey> you can also do both
<jsgotangco> ogra: go to sleep?
<spacey> its quite late in CET now :)
<spacey> just got back from a "party"
<scubes13> yeah, I was also not running two dhcp servers
<ogra> jsgotangco, one install left for today
<scubes13> I was able to setup my pfsense firewall to let each incoming dhcp request look to the thin client server for the pxe boot file - worked pretty well
<jsgotangco> ogra: amd64 is covered now or do you need more?
<jsgotangco> (it seems good already)
<ogra> this last install makes amd64 complete 
<HedgeMage> hi all :)
<spacey> i don't think firewalls have much to do with PXE
* ogra was crazy enough to also do dvd installs today
<spacey> ogra: madness!:P
<ogra> well, look at our test matrix on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
<HedgeMage> :)
<scubes13> spacey: no, they dont, but the clients have to know where the tftp server is that hosts the pxe files
<ogra> there is still the whole set of ppc tests left
<spacey> scubes13: you specify that in the dhcp lease
<scubes13> lol, that is what I was saying
<jsgotangco> ogra: uncle i don't have a PPC *wink*
<ogra> jsgotangco, but i have one ... :) tomorrow is ppc day
<spacey> ogra: ok thats quite a lot
<ogra> and probably i386 dvd day ...
<scubes13> I have my pfsense firewall specifying the tftp server when it gives out the dhcp leases, therefore I am not using dhcp services on the thin client server
<spacey> i didn't know firewalls give dhcp leases
<scubes13> well, I have dhcp services running from my pfsense firewall
<ogra> cat'ing the CD isos together and rsync the dvd image on top of that goes quite fast (2h for a 3.2G rsync)
<spacey> ogra: is that limitation of your inet connection or of the syncing process?
<spacey> 2h for 3.2G is relatively slow
<ogra> via rsync afeter we pushed out a release candidate thats pretty fast :)
<spacey> :)
<spacey> oh btw
<ogra> the servers are glowing in the DC :)
<HedgeMage> lol
<spacey> i will probably help in a project to ship old pc's to suriname (whatever youc all that in english)
<spacey> i will make sure it ships edubuntu or xubuntu if there slow
<ogra> yeah
<spacey> its for schools there
<ogra> thats cool
<bimberi> Just listened to the latest Lugradio podcast.  Included an interview with a guy from http://camara.ie/ , an Irish charity sending refurbished computers to African schools.  Pre-installed with Edubuntu :)
<spacey> yeah, i hope it will actually happen
<ogra> spacey, will you be in paris ?
<HedgeMage> :)
<spacey> early planning stages now
<spacey> ogra: nope, no time/money
<ogra> bimberi, wow
<ogra> spacey, bah, sad
<spacey> insanely busy
* HedgeMage again publicizes the "everyone blog Paris so HedgeMage can live vicariously through you" theory ;)
<spacey> well you never know what happens, but i think its a 5% chance
<bimberi> so edubuntu got a mention and a positive reaction from the lugradio guys :)
<ogra> bimberi, thats really cool :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<bimberi> ogra: indeed :)
<HedgeMage> very cool
<HedgeMage> brb
<ogra> there are guys in washington doing something similar btw
<HedgeMage> ogra: DC or state?
<ogra> hmm, was that washington ? ....
<jsgotangco> flint?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> jammcq (upstream ltsp) and whiprush run that 
<jsgotangco> ahh yeah i remember that
<jsgotangco> that's in detroit
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> damned, i forgot where
<ogra> ah, yeah detroit 
<spacey> all the same ;p
<ogra> there behind the water 
<spacey> yeah =)
<ogra> :)
<spacey> far far away
<spacey> i'm going to sleep
<spacey> goodnight =)
<ogra> night
<jsgotangco> well time for me to do some RL work
<jsgotangco> brb
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, I always have to do that too. I'm more used to Washington being the state and D.C. obvously being the other
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yep but not all people remember to differentiate :)
<LaserJock> especially when they are "over there" :-)
<ogra> haha
<ogra> beware, you'll be "over there" yourself soon :)
<LaserJock> yep, I email my boss about it today, hopefully he isn't too mad
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: hehe :)
<LaserJock> I have a hard time explaining it without saying, "I'm going to Paris to work on that thing that keeps me from doing real work."
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<bimberi> LaserJock: tell him that things will flip-flop - you'll probably end up thinking more about real work while you're there :)
<LaserJock> I just went for the vauge approach
<LaserJock> I said that I was being sponsored to go to a Linux conference, how nice
<bimberi> good idea
<HedgeMage> :)
<LaserJock> well, it isn't to bad. I was the only grad student in the lab not taking time off in June and I'm taking off the least amount of time
<HedgeMage> :)
<bimberi> sounds like a good case to me - and how could anyone deny someone a sponsored  visit to Paris anyway
* bimberi remembers his visit fondly - spending an hour on the top deck of the Eiffel tower in February 1987
<HedgeMage> I'll see the sites, but I think that one I'll miss
* HedgeMage is terrified of heights
<HedgeMage> *if I ever see Paris
<LaserJock> well, I haven't been outside the US except for a brief Mexico trip when I was 12
<HedgeMage> I did a short tour through part of canada when i was still singing -- that's the only time I've left the US
<LaserJock> I never made it to Canada, don't know why exactly. It would take about 4-5 hrs to drive from where I grew up
<HedgeMage> I'm out to restock our kitchen... see you all later tonight
<LaserJock> cya HedgeMage 
<bimberi> bye HedgeMage
<bimberi> LaserJock: wow, well i hope you have a great time then :)
<bimberi> <-- away for a bit
<LaserJock> well, it won't be a sight seeing tour, but I'll be glad to meet people and help make sure Edgy rocks too
<LaserJock> my Grandpa is preparing a "This is were all your French ancestors came from" speech for when I see him this weekend :-)
<Burgundavia> HIGHVOLTAGE!!!!
<crimsun> (Is that a cry of anguish?)
<Burgundavia> no, of anger
<crimsun> yeah, that's my cue to totter off.
<Burgundavia> heh
<Amaranth> yay
<Amaranth> http://www.divmod.org/projects/reverend
<Amaranth> LGPL too
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, beautiful
<Amaranth> now all i have to do is the proxy bits :P
<Amaranth> which is actually the hard part....
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, did you see this? http://www.porchdogsoft.com/products/howl/
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> heh
* HedgeMage peeks back in
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: show Lathiat
<jsgotangco> howl does zeroconf no?
* jsgotangco heard of it before
<Amaranth> yeah
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, hmm, got you two mixed up
<mhz> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage <n=Jono@ubuntu/member/highvoltage> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 10h 28m 54s ago, saying: 'it might be plus the ctrl... i don't know. normally, just SysRq = ctrl+PrtSc'.
<cbx33> morning 
<Phlosten> afternoon
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi cb
<highvoltage> x33
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> get my mail?
<cbx33> can i publish esa now?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i just got in the office, so just started downloadign mail :)
<highvoltage> downloading 76 of 240
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> np
<mhz> !seen highvoltage
<ubotu> highvoltage is currently on #edubuntu (17m 6s) #ubuntu (17m 6s)
<mhz> highvoltage: well, probably 100 are related to Viagra stuff
<mhz> :)
<mhz> and 1 for sure, is Corey telling you off for deleting wiki pages :D
<cbx33> mhz, we're doing good on the old spam front
<mhz> cbx33: wiki spam?
<cbx33> edubuntu-devel
<mhz> oh, yeah, you too?
<highvoltage> hey mhz 
<cbx33> yeh, it's u and me
<mhz> cbx33: that is why every time I log in to the Admin, I found none of the 20 notice emails I got in my ibox
<highvoltage> mhz: all the pages we deleted really, really needed to be deleted :)
<cbx33> mhz heheheh
<mhz> highvoltage: tell that to Corey :)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: all the pages we deleted, really, really needed to be deleted!
<mhz> highvoltage: lol
<mhz> highvoltage: I died waiting for your friend's CV
<cbx33> highvoltage; did you s e what i did on drupal
<mhz> died  = passed ways
<mhz> died  = passed away
<highvoltage> mhz: i could only get in touch with him late yesterday afternoon :/
<mhz> is he still interested?
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, but i think you might have to move on, since of your time constraints
<highvoltage> mhz: he needs more info to send to TSF CEO first to get permission to go
<highvoltage> let me give you the details in PM
<mhz> highvoltage: but I gotta "play safe". If he's interested and can send me his CV and confirmation letter (yours), then ok
<mhz> okis
<highvoltage> cbx33: i will in just a bit
<mhz> highvoltage: now I am registered :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, yes, but you coudl have replaced them with a link
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i'll look at the links we deleted again, to check. although links like /PressRelease, that contained nothing but a few very draft notes about a possible press release for 5.10, doesn't really warrant having a link there. do you agree? or should everything have a link?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, if you mentioned the wiki page anywhere publicly or talked about it, it should be kept
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: ok
<highvoltage> i think there were some old artwork pages we deleted that was mentioned in the mailing list some time ago... we can still create a link explaining that the page used to exist, but doesn't anymore. would that be fine?
<mhz> Has anyone seen any artwork for Edubuntu regarding CD labels ?
<highvoltage> mhz: iirc, there were some CD labels that you created :)
<mhz> highvoltage: hehehe, yeah but that was for Breezy. I need to know about Dapper
<mhz> because I am calling for a breakfast for 4 to 6 journalists from diff papers, on June 1st. I will demo Edubuntu Dapper while they have breakfast :D
<mhz> (well, that is the idea)
<mhz> So, I could create a CD Label but I dont wanna invent wheel
<mhz> or show something totally diff from real release
<cbx33> mhz wow, are you gonna give them shipit cd's
<mhz> cbx33: well, i am gonna burn 6 CD's and print 6 Cd Labels by myself
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, i don't mind the converging of the glosarry at all, thanks :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: what's the link to ESA on drupal?
<cbx33> node/16
<cbx33> i think
<mhz> lol!
<cbx33> else you'll have to log in
<highvoltage> cbx33: ah, i've got it
<mhz> we already started with the 'not-easy-to-remember' php names instead the PieceOfCake wiki names :D
<cbx33> i think it's looking really good
<highvoltage> cbx33: wow! it looks, very, very nice!
* mhz tabbs for edubuntu.org
<cbx33> gtg bbl
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> cbx33: bug!
<mhz> highvoltage: bug
<mhz>  hilton@tsf.org.za
<mhz> damn!
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> highvoltage: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<highvoltage> mhz: i know, the images are too large so it shifts the menu's
<highvoltage> we'll fix that before the end of the weekend ;)
<highvoltage> hmmm.. seems that, it's actually just the gedit screenshot that is too big. in that case we can fix by end of day
<jsgotangco> yo!
<highvoltage> yo jsgotangco!
<mhz> highvoltage: cbx33, nice work
<highvoltage> mhz: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted :)
<highvoltage> gimp++
<mhz> highvoltage: my screen is 10 inches and still see text wider than page borders, hence menus disspear
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, i'll look into that
<mhz> thx
<cbx33> mornin
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<Burgundavia> cbx33, anybody you not be looking for there?
<cbx33> ping Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> heh
<cbx33> howz ity going corey
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> about to head to bed
<cbx33> good job 
<cbx33> Burgundavia: you're not a python expert are you
<Burgundavia> far from it
<Burgundavia> what is the issue?
<cbx33> well,
<cbx33> I'm wanting my python script to dynamically create a new cell in a table containing a text and 2 button widgets...which I can do easily
<cbx33> I've learnt that much
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> but I need a place to store these widgets
<cbx33> like in an array
<cbx33> I've tried like
<cbx33> buttin[0] =gtk.Button("New")
<cbx33> but it syas button isn't defined
<cbx33> any ideas Burgundavia ?
<Burgundavia> nope, sorry
<cbx33> ping crimsun 
<cbx33> no one here knows where mplayer hath gone do they?
<JaneW> pbor: pygi normally arrives a little later - give it a few hours
<pbor> JaneW: no prob
<pbor> I don't have any hurry
<pbor> JaneW: thank you
<JaneW> pbor: cool
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
* jsgotangco hugs JaneW
* JaneW hugs back
<lucasvo> in which format is the cookbook written?
<cbx33> wiki at the mo as far as I know
<lucasvo> hm, I thought they used some xhtml format?
<lucasvo> ah docbook
<lucasvo> anybody working on Cookbook here?
<cbx33> lucasvo: I was doing some proofing
<cbx33> it's pygi and HedgeMage
<cbx33> who were doing the bulk
<pygi> lucasvo, how may I help?
* pygi is very wanted today :-/
<lucasvo> I am having problems with my own docbook
<pygi> lucasvo, like?
<lucasvo> but I already was able to fix it
<cbx33> lucasvo: i've used docbook
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<lucasvo> pygi: a stupid error
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> enjoy
<lucasvo>  docbook2html can't work in a subdirectory such as This\ dir\ has\ spaces/
<JaneW> pygi: pbor was looking for you too ;)
<JaneW> pygi: h and hi :)
<JaneW> s/h/hi/
* cbx33 hates spaces
<pbor> JaneW: sorted in #ubuntu-devel
<cbx33> hi JaneW 
<lucasvo> do you know a good tutor for docbook, pygi & cbx?
<JaneW> I mean s/h/oh/
<JaneW> pbor: oic, great
<JaneW> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> lucasvo: just take one that'sd already written
<lucasvo> and with LP not working I can't even report the bug
<lucasvo> cbx33: where can I find one?
<cbx33> in the svn repo
<cbx33> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/
<lucasvo> ahhh, svn!
<lucasvo> :P
<lucasvo> use bzr
<cbx33> bzr isn;t suitable for the docteam right now
<cbx33> anyone know a good how to for setting up svn with webdav
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I need someone whos good about general permissions problems
<blue-frog> can try to give a go
<cbx33> excellent
<blue-frog> if i solve your problem...
<blue-frog> if it's webdav related am not your man yet as I nee to find a tuto myself on it
<cbx33> no it;s not
<cbx33> ok take a look at this page
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SubVersion
<cbx33> see this bit
<cbx33>    $ sudo mkdir myproject   $ sudo chown -R root:subversion myproject   $ sudo chmod -R g+rws myproject
<cbx33> ok i did that
<jsgotangco> ciao
<jsgotangco> later
<cbx33> and I've been added to the group
<blue-frog> k
<cbx33> but......
<cbx33> drwxr-sr-x 5 root subversion 4096 2006-05-26 11:39 db
<cbx33> is a dir that I need write access to
<cbx33> but....as you can see w is missing for group
<cbx33> what should those instructions have read?
<blue-frog> and db is inside /home/sn/myproject of course
<cbx33> yes
<blue-frog> the permissions on above folder are ok?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I can write to that one
<cbx33> the g+rws line
<cbx33> should that be something different
<blue-frog> having a look
<cbx33> thanks blue-frog I was never that ogood with sticky bits
<blue-frog> making a test here to see if i have same problem
<cbx33> thanks blue-frog 
<cbx33> basically afte ryou have finished the g+rws line
<cbx33> try writing to the db folder
<blue-frog> hum
<cbx33> i know it's a pretty simple problem....but I want to get this right...and I'm stumped
<blue-frog> hang on have you tried wrting in it
<blue-frog> without looking at the permissions
<cbx33> in the db folder?
<blue-frog> yes
<cbx33> premission denied
<blue-frog> cause works for me here
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> can you show me your premissions
<blue-frog> ah no hang on must try with other user
<blue-frog> and of course it shouldn't work
<cbx33> hehe
<blue-frog> ok same as you of course
<cbx33> so now the question is
<cbx33> what should we have written in the beginning
<blue-frog> yes but you didn't make it sticky that is the problem i think
<blue-frog> let me try
<cbx33> oh?
<blue-frog> have to man first :)
<cbx33> ok
<blue-frog> try replacing s by t
<blue-frog> chmod -R g+rwt
<cbx33> ok I'll recreate it again
<blue-frog> no
<cbx33> oh ok
<blue-frog> just apply chmod
<blue-frog> rah yes you are right erase and recreate...
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> it works with just the chmod
<blue-frog> cause -R is gonna trick us wrongly
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> how so
<blue-frog> -r applies new permissions to db as well :(
<blue-frog> gonna try again here
<cbx33> isn't that what we want?
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> yes.....
<blue-frog> no as db was supposed to be created afterwards
<cbx33> that would be wrong
* cbx33 goes for a recreate
<blue-frog> yes works
<cbx33> no it didn't here
<blue-frog> works for me but..
<blue-frog> just one folder underneath the sticky bit
<blue-frog> menaing..
<blue-frog> meaning
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> that's y it didn't fork for me
<cbx33> db works
<cbx33> but db/transationc doesn't
<cbx33> bbiab
<blue-frog> yes
<blue-frog> and for the following subfolder I don't know how to do that, gonna try with nautilus interface..
<blue-frog> even with nautilus by applying the sticky bit don't work for more than a folder
<blue-frog> must be a way though, I man abit more
<blue-frog> gonna ask on ubuntu-fr, hang on but I have a feeling that sticky bit is meant to be used like that only meaning you may need something else in fact
<blue-frog> waiting for an eventual answer on ubuntu-fr if they can talk of other things than graphic cards..
<blue-frog> thinking
<blue-frog> egroupware does that but i don't know if that can be applicable to your problem
<blue-frog> and as I don't have egroupware installed right now I can't check in their code
<lucasvo> has anybody experience with html export of docbook?
<lucasvo> I would like to add a custom header
<blue-frog> cbx33 think the answer to your problem is ACL
<cbx33> blue-frog: no way
<blue-frog> why's that?
<cbx33> well, it just can't be that complicated
* cbx33 is just thinking of applying 755 to all in that directory
<blue-frog> acl is not that complicated (even though I have tough time to use the setfacl tool)
<blue-frog> http://www.ids.org.au/main/tutorials/acl_howto.php
* cbx33 thinks 755 will suffice for now
<cbx33> blue-frog: think that'll suffice?
<blue-frog> 755?
<cbx33> oh sorry 775
<blue-frog> do you have to leave rx to others?
<cbx33> yeh
<blue-frog> ok then
<cbx33> 7 for owner 7 for group 5 for others
<cbx33> oh sory
<blue-frog> yes yes understood
<cbx33> i see what you mean
<blue-frog> ye p I mean 5 to others
<cbx33> blue-frog: sorry...i didn't mean to sound patronising...i didnt read it properly
<blue-frog> don't wry :)
<blue-frog> *fighting with setfacl cause he thinks that should be the propoer way if he can make it work:) *
<blue-frog> cbx33, making tests now with acls
<cbx33> thanks blue-frog 
<cbx33> ping JaneW 
<blue-frog> getting near I think but still need few more minutes, the acl stuff is really interesting
<JaneW> cbx33: pong (gimme 2 mins)
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> blue-frog: I'm sure it is
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=100 - hehehe
<blue-frog> cbx33 works all fine :)
<lucasvo> docbook is horrible 
<lucasvo> it is so damn complicated
<cbx33> lucasvo: nahhh
<cbx33> blue-frog: care to share ?
<blue-frog> cbx33, it's a mixture of acl and sticky bit, I can explain to you will take 5 minutes
<cbx33> please
<blue-frog> nedd a job :)
<cbx33> wanna take it into pm?
<spacey> cbx33: already on planet.ubuntu.com ?
<blue-frog> need*
<blue-frog> sure cbx33 
<cbx33> spacey: no
<cbx33> didnt think my blog was ... how shall I put it....good enough
<spacey> i think its fine
<cbx33> ok, how do i add myself to planet?
<spacey> mail jdub
<cbx33> ok
<spacey> if look at all those who would you want to meet when you go to heaven posts your blog is pretty good
<lucasvo> cbx33: well...
<lucasvo> cbx33: have you ever tried to customize the html output?
<cbx33> ah, just use css
<lucasvo> I want to have a special header
<lucasvo> which I can't do with css
<blue-frog> cbx33, you are with me? :)
<lucasvo> since I need div boxes to be added into the css
<lucasvo> cbx33: you know how I could do that?
<cbx33> blue-frog: about what ?
<blue-frog> explanaytion in pm
<cbx33> oh yeh I'm getting that
<pips1> ogra, ping
<ogra> pips1, pong
<pips1> i'm trying to investigate the installation failure on powerpc G5
<pips1> I tested with kubuntu rc live cd and booting hangs as well, but it got a little further than the edubuntu cd
<pips1> I still can get a console though :-(
<pips1> ogra, anyway, I'm just letting you know. I'll update my bug report accordingly
<blue-frog> cbx33, what's your group name again?
<ogra> pips1, sounds like a kernel bug
<ogra> pips1, so #ubuntu-kernel would be my guess
<cbx33> blue-frog: subversion
<blue-frog> yep got it
<pips1> ogra, ok, thanks for pointer, I'll see what I can do
<blue-frog> is there a firewall in dapper?
<blue-frog> I have installed apt-proxy and when I try apt-get update it tells me could not connect to my ip connection refused?
<cbx33> brb
<mjg> I'm working on an software survey for the Edubuntu Study Content Team. If you have a minute, please take the survey and comment. Thanks. http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB225CK5BSC3B
<ogra> mjg, thats nice, try also the mailing list :)
<mjg> I will. Thanks.
<pips1> mjg, good idea to do an online survey :-)
<mjg> pips1, thanks. The goal of the project is to get educators and students interested and involved in educational content development.
<ogra> mjg, make sure to send us updates on the software requirements you get submitted, so stuff can get included where appropriate
<mjg> I will.
<ogra> thanks :)
<mjg> submit via dev mail-list I assume?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> blue-frog, 
<ogra> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (0.1.24) dapper; urgency=low
<ogra>  .
<ogra>    * Restore old "Install to first hard disk" string alongside "Install in
<ogra>      text mode", so that it can be used for Edubuntu and the Ubuntu server
<ogra>      CDs.
<blue-frog> :)
<cbx33> anyone got jdub's email off hand?
<blue-frog> cbx33, did you mange to have your permissions working ok?
<cbx33> blue-frog: I think so
<cbx33> btw blue-frog 
<blue-frog> cool
<cbx33> do not reboot
<cbx33> if you have put {{acl}} in your fstab
<cbx33> it's just acl
<blue-frog> ah
<blue-frog> what does the other stuff?
<cbx33> otherwise it won;t mount properly
<blue-frog> a poopoo
<blue-frog> ok
<blue-frog> ty
<cbx33> and will be read only so you will have to go into a resuce cd to modify
<blue-frog> will take those {{}}away
<cbx33> blue-frog: did you not get any of my messages in pm?
<blue-frog> cause from now on I am not working anu=ymore without acl :)
<ogra> cbx33, jeff.waugh@ubuntu.com
<blue-frog> nope cbx33 
<cbx33> oh darn
<cbx33> i sent loads...but hadn't registered
<blue-frog> :)
<blue-frog> don't understand the guy put those {{}} then, maybe it's some wiki formatting that went thru
<cbx33> yeh
<blue-frog> i was a bit surprise dmyself by those but dind't bother yet
<cbx33> hehe don't :p
<blue-frog> btw cbx33 keep the url i sent u for the different example are much easier to understand than the man page for setfacl
<blue-frog> (at least for me)
<pygi> JaneW, you around?
<blue-frog> bonjour michel
<jsgotangco> yo!
<ogra> yo ? 
<pips1> ogra, the dapper kernel doesn't support the new imac g5 processors yet (fabbione told me), so g5 users will have to wait for edgy
<ogra> ghurt ?
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> pips1, ah
<ogra> that explains a lot :)
<blue-frog> kamerun, how goes your edubuntu installation?
<lucasvo> hallo michel!!!
<lucasvo> kamerun: commen ca va?
<lucasvo> +t
<jsgotangco> hmmmmm
* jsgotangco likes what he sees in kubuntu at the moment
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: what?
<lucasvo> sudo apt-get remove libqt?
<lucasvo> :)
<jsgotangco> lol
* jsgotangco just had to test it out
<pips1> ogra, quoting fabbione: ...
<pips1> fabbione pips1: afaik the new imac g5 support has been added to the kernel only recently
<pips1> fabbione i think it requires at least .16 if not .17
<pips1> fabbione and the backport is not possible.
<pips1> fabbione the code has been ported to .16 for a distro and it resulted in a very unstable environment
<ogra> yep
<ogra> sad the G5 cant emulate a G4 like amd64 can be used as i386b 
<lucasvo> next ubuntu release ppc is out of date anyway :)
<ogra> -b
<ogra> not at all
<lucasvo> ogra: well of course, but it won't be in stores anymore
<ogra> ppc will be around a long time still (at least as long as its used in IBMs)
<lucasvo> too bad the didn't choose amd
<lucasvo> ogra: IBM is still using them for wokstations?
<lucasvo> or only servers?
<ogra> servers 
<lucasvo> when will the shipit cd's be sent out?
<ogra> but ppc macs will also stay around for some years and lots of ubuntu devs has ppc
<ogra> *have
<ogra> if there is something to be sent
<ogra> not before ... people wont be happy about empty CD cases, even if they get them early :P
<lucasvo> well I only order it for the case anyway :)
<lucasvo> I have about 5 cd burnes in my house
<ogra> i was suspecting that somehow :)
<lucasvo> ogra: is the edubuntu release at the same time as ubuntu release?
<ogra> yep
<lucasvo> ogra: but most people would assume that it's illegal if I give them one of my own cd's
<lucasvo> *lol*
<lucasvo> somebody from our school just won an award for cloning the opencd
<lucasvo> haha
<lucasvo> they won a nationwide communication contest for a cd about free security software 
<lucasvo> btw, will the new shipit cd's still include free software for windows?
<ogra> not the edubuntu ones, no
<ogra> but the ubuntu and kubuntu ones have space for it i think
<lucasvo> I orderd ubuntu ones as well
<jsgotangco> ogra: it seems we'll have separate annoucements for the release, Riddell said kubuntu is having one
<ogra> yep, might be, nobody approached me yet about it
<jsgotangco> well i already had a draft want me to post it on the wiki?
<ogra> yep
<lucasvo> cbx33: can you help me with docbook?
<cbx33> lucasvo: I can try
<lucasvo> http://wservices.ch/~lucas/software/newsletter/docbook/sending_news/c21.html < this is docbook
<lucasvo> this is how I want it to look like: http://wservices.ch/~lucas/software/newsletter/doc/
<lucasvo> cbx33: currently I am using docbook2html
<lucasvo> how can I tell this tool to use a css file?
<cbx33> lucasvo: sorry I gotta shoot off...
<cbx33> just put the css in the same folder as the html
<cbx33> and then...hmm..you need a header
<JaneW> cbx33: ping again
<JaneW> cbx33: pong I mean
<cbx33> JaneW: ping - back in about 1 hour or so
<JaneW> cbx33: ok
<cbx33> it was just about the announcemnts things....
<cbx33> but js has alreadfy replied
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> JaneW, hey, you here this time? :0
<ogra> cbx33, dont put too much on your sholders 
<JaneW> cbx33: oh ok
<JaneW> pygi: kind of, a bit rushed
<pygi> JaneW, ah,oki, nothing important anyway
<blue-frog> what "official" ubuntu program could I use to setup a partial mirror on my pc, pls (apparently dapper apt-get update makes apt-proxy goes nuts...)
<blue-frog> in fact I rephrase.. what could I use to set up a partial mirror?
<ogra> debmirrir probably
<ogra> *debmirror
<blue-frog> ty gonna look at it
<blue-frog> I assume it's pointless filling a bug for apt-get/apt-proxy as apt-proxy is in unvierse, correct?
<ogra> why ? 
<blue-frog> dunno I still don't understand very well what is universe
<ogra> i mean why shouldnt you file a bug ? 
<blue-frog> but if i can i will do it right now cause apt-proxy is definitely what I need
<LaserJock> blue-frog: Universe just means some lazy MOTU has to fix rather than the ever dedicated core-devs ;-)
<ogra> universe packages can get fixage as well as main packages
<blue-frog> ok then I will assign it to apt-get
<LaserJock> blue-frog: if it is an apt-proxy problem then file it aganst that, don't worry about what repo it is in
<blue-frog> well i don't know if it proxy or get as it was working perfectly under breezy
<blue-frog> but now when apt-proxy receives the request from apt-get it's telling a lot of things about lines in python files
<blue-frog> oh yes will file it under apt-proxy
<blue-frog> the files incrimimnated are apt_proxy.py for example
<LaserJock> hehe, it appears that I want to write a KDEEdu app https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSoftwareSurvey
<bddebian> Howdy :-)
<ogra> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> ogra: So, what, if anything, should I test for ya? :-)
<LaserJock> quick!! close the door so he can't get out ;-)
<ogra> we have a text matrix at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
<ogra> s/text/test/
<JaneW> pygi: pong
<ogra> so just test what you like to and add your results in the table ...
<pygi> JaneW, just wanted to offer my help as Edubuntu weekly newsletter editor
<ogra> basially install tests and some checking of the apps (like firing up firefox once and check the default homepage or write some lines in a ooo doc)
<JaneW> pygi: oh cool
<JaneW> pygi: that would be GREAT :)
<pygi> JaneW, and moberg is looking for you (#socdiss), he says he wants a mentor
<pygi> JaneW, just poke me a mail on what I should do, and find contributors :-P
<JaneW> there seem to be 2-3 interested people
<JaneW> so I think we should either
<LaserJock> JaneW: would it be possible for us to use the wiki and then have a person that actually submits the final draft?
<JaneW> 1) Have people doing alternate weeks 
<JaneW> 2) Have people contributing for diff areas and one person tying it together
<JaneW> LaserJock: sure
<pygi> JaneW, I would say second :)
<pygi> And I could be the person tying it all down :)
<JaneW> pygi: yes I am trying to sort that out, and have been all day
<pygi> ah, we don't have appropriate mentors? 
<pygi> and I hate that "copy&paste" thing that happened to us :(
<LaserJock> JaneW: you obviouly care too much. you should have just said, "Edubuntu needs a newsletter, figure it out." :-)
<pygi> LaserJock, heh :-P
<ogra> LaserJock, our management *wants* a newsletter 
* pygi talked with students today about lp, repo, specs, etc 
<ogra> i'd be fine with public meeting notes ...
<LaserJock> ogra: well I was sort of thinking how the MOTU Report is done where dholbach organizes it but we just have a wiki draft that people can add to
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> LaserJock: you are right :P
<bddebian> What the heck is the difference between a live Cd and an install CD?
<LaserJock> JaneW: btw, do you know (I might have asked you this before) if there will be computers available for the laptop challenged in Paris
<LaserJock> bddebian: the livecd has a graphical installer
<LaserJock> bddebian: the install CD is the text installer but also has other options
<JaneW> LaserJock: er...
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, I've noticed.  But I didn't see a specific "install" iso?
<JaneW> LaserJock: normaly everyone brings their own
<ogra> you can browse the web while installing from the liveCD (or watch pron or whatever)
<bddebian> w00t
<LaserJock> JaneW: ok, I'll try to scare something up
<JaneW> LaserJock: we can see if we can hook you up with someone who can loan you one
<ogra> bddebian, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily/ has the install iso
<ogra> bddebian, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily-live/ has the live iso
<LaserJock> JaneW: I will probably just have to convince my wife that I should take hers to Europe for a week :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, so I should test an install from the Live CD?
<ogra> bddebian, as you like ... you can test live and install cd or only live or only install ...
<bddebian> Well Live seems to be working fine.  Though I'm not sure what all to test :-)
<ogra> as i said, start some apps and make sure they work ... use ubiquity to do an install test etc
<bddebian> Well FireFox and TuxPaint work fine :-)
<ogra> great :)
<bddebian> Hmm, looks like kPercent might be missing a Comment= in .desktop?
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> wow, youre finding the serious bugs today :)
<bddebian> Actually a few things in the Education menu don't seem to have them
<bddebian> Hehe
* bddebian gets no love
* ogra hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> w00t, I ROCK at TuxMath ;-P
<ogra> heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: Any thoughts on the pybibliographer bugs?
<LaserJock> bddebian: just got a file a couple UVFe's :-)
<LaserJock> s/got/got to/
<bddebian> Bah, just upload it you wimp ;-P
<LaserJock> what are the going to do, kick me out? ;-)
* LaserJock wonders if everybody would be offended if he brought a Windows laptop to Paris
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't see a gnome-chemistry-utils package??
<LaserJock> in Edubuntu?
<bddebian> At all
<bddebian> Bug #35922
<LaserJock> bddebian: -> -motu or -bugs?
<bddebian> Sorry
<pygi> JaneW, o shuffling will happen?
<bddebian> Hmm, does EdUbuntu not include the Examples dir under Home?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> example-content is something like 20MB big ... we dont have so much space
<JaneW> pygi: 3 students/projects have mentors and have been mailed
<JaneW> I gotta go now
<ogra> (dur to the kde gnome mix)
<pygi> JaneW, nice, thanks :0
<pygi> JaneW, enjoy :)
<JaneW> ty, you too
<bddebian> ogra: OK, thx
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<jryer> I want to install edubuntu in Spanish and I DO NOT have internet. How?
<blue-frog> the easiest is to download the dvd where you can
<LaserJock> jryer: or order a cd from shipit.edubuntu.com I think
<jryer> Where do I ge the DVD?
<blue-frog> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<blue-frog> has all languages in it
<blue-frog> I mean the dvd, the page has dvd following your pc architecture
<jryer> How would I get just the packages necessary for spanish?
<ogra> jryer, do you want to install the classroom server or a workstation ? 
<jryer> One server, the rest workstations
<ogra> wokrstations or ltsp clients ? 
<jryer> Workstations
<blue-frog> jryer from a user point of view the aggravating things to install spanish would be (from least to worst), download dvd and burn it, install spanish on one laptop and then retrive the *.deb files from the cache, retrieving the *.deb files dirctly from the web site
<ogra> jryer, then use the liveCd to install the workstations, the liveCD doesnt have any server parts on it, so there was space to add the spanish language packs (among other langs)
<ogra> for the server side you need either the dvd (all langpacks) or network connection to get them online
<jryer> Okay... I tried using the language packs that I have installed on UBUNTU to install on EDUBUNTU but the package installations failed. Are the packages different between edubuntu and ubuntu?
<ogra> nope, they are 100% identical
<ogra> but edubuntu ships some kde apps, so you need the kde langpacks as well
<jryer> So then how do I go about installing the language packs from the cache folder on edubuntu? I have them on my USB flash.
<ogra> you need the following packages: language-pack-es language-pack-gnome-es language-pack-kde-es and language-support-es
<ogra> but note that language-support has many other dependencys
<ogra> like openoffice langpacks or firefox langpacks
<ogra> so i guess the dvd is your best bet
<ogra> since all depending packages are on there as well
<jryer> I have the language-support-es language-pack-es aspell-es mozilla-firefox-locale-es-ar mozilla-firefox-locale-es-es myspell-es openoffice.org2-help-es openoffice.org2-l10n-es wspanish
<jryer> I right click and choose install package. A window pops up for the first few packages, looks like it does something and closes before I can see what happens. The openoffice packages get errors. But I log out and look to see if spanish is installed and its not there.
<jryer> So I suppose I have to download the DVD.
<blue-frog> ogra ow can I help translating schooltool in french?
<ogra> blue-frog, jinty is upstream developer of it
<jinty> blue-frog: please contact Nicolas Pettiaux who I think was working on the same thing
<jinty> perhaps you know him already?
<blue-frog> ok i keep the name
<blue-frog> no
<jinty> his mail address is nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be
<blue-frog> ty
<LaserJock> is schooltool installed by default in Edubuntu?
<blue-frog> ye
<blue-frog> s
<blue-frog> localhost:7080
<LaserJock> just on the server or also on the workstation install?
<ogra> only in the server install
<blue-frog> talking about the server myself
<ogra> the workstation install folllows the "no open ports" policy
<blue-frog> jinty where does schooltool hides it's file, thought it was a "web" page but apparently am wrong
<ogra> get the package 
<ogra> dpkg -c will tell you
<ogra> oh, or dpkg -L schooltool
<jinty> hide, files, where? you can try the demo at demo.schooltool.org
<jryer> Thanks for the help, bye
<blue-frog> no sry i explain myself wrongly
<ogra> ciao jryer 
<blue-frog> i thought it was fetching translation in po files for example
<blue-frog> or whatever files..
<blue-frog> ah locate schootool is more talkative then dpkg -L
<blue-frog> files in /usr/lib/python...
<jsgotangco> its oh so quiet :)
<ogra> make some noise :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<pygi> lol :)
* Burgwork bangs a few pots
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: you familiar with autotools ?
* bddebian dances around Burgwork
<jsgotangco> no
<Yagisan> :(
<Yagisan> hey, who wants to answer a dumb autotools question ?
<bddebian> Yagisan: There are no dumb questions.  Especially if I'm around :-)
<Yagisan> heh
<Yagisan> ok. this works AC_MSG_RESULT([$build] )
<jsgotangco> yes there is hope then
<Yagisan> this does not AC_MSG_RESULT([$CFLAGS] )
<Yagisan> and I have no idea why
<bddebian> Yagisan: Does it error or just not print?
<Yagisan> actual results from that section are
<Yagisan> checking target system... i586-pc-mingw32
<Yagisan> checking CFLAGS...
<Yagisan> completely blank
<bddebian> Maybe CFLAGS aren't getting set?
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's the same with everything I set though
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<Yagisan> bddebian: AC_MSG_RESULT([$buildjdoom] ) does the same thing
<Yagisan> bddebian: shall I pastebin it somewhere for you to laugh at
<bddebian> Yagisan: I won't laugh, believe me :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: http://pastebin.com/739690
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's the beginnings of a completely new build system
<Yagisan> bddebian: has some known issues, but it actually builds the project (with less issues then the one it replaced)
<cbx33> booooooooo-ya
<Yagisan> bddebian: still laughing at it ?
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<cbx33> hey yagisan
<cbx33> hi bddebian, don't see you here often
<ogra> he joined the edubuntu RC testing team :)
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> ogra, are you interested in that vmware failure
<ogra> in a bug, yes
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> bbl, gotta eat
<bddebian> cbx33: Yeah, I'm new ;-P
<bddebian> Yagisan: Sorry, a salesperson grabbed me..
<Yagisan> bddebian: don't forget to was carefully with soap then ;)
<Yagisan> s/was/wash
<bddebian> Heh, no kidding :-)
<crimsun> cbx33: RE: mplayer/plugins: They were never in universe.
<bddebian> Yagisan: What are you actually passing to configure?
<Yagisan> bddebian: oh. for the hell of it configure -prefix=/opt/yagisan -target=i586-mingw32
<Yagisan> bddebian: but that was just to see something other then i686-pc-linux-gnu for target and build
<bddebian> Yagisan: OK, so you aren't passing any CFLAGS or --without-jdoom?
<Yagisan> bddebian: nope. CFLAGS is set to -O2
<Yagisan> bddebian: I expect to see several "yes" at the end
<bddebian> Yagisan: For what?  jdoom, et al?
<Yagisan> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> No, you are only setting that to "no" if --without-X is specified
<bddebian> At least I think
<Yagisan> bddebian: and whatever funky CFLAGS where used
<Yagisan> bddebian: nope. right at the top I set it to yes
<bddebian> Oh, hehe, missed that, sorry
<bddebian> Do you get the no if you pass --without-jdoom?
<Yagisan> bddebian: no, but oddly enough CFLAGS now has output.
<bddebian> heh
<blue-frog> can edit and save a.po file qwith gedit, am trying to do so wtih a po file for schootool. I restart schooltool, but the change doesn't show
<jinty> blue-frog: you compile the .po file to a .mo file?
<blue-frog> ah :(
<blue-frog> is there a command line for that?
<jinty> are you in a schooltool checkout?
<blue-frog> or should I use a program made to edit po files?
<blue-frog> sry don't undersstand your question
<jinty> then try this: man msgfmt
<blue-frog> cool
<bddebian> Yagisan: Can you pastebin the configure that is created from this?
<blue-frog> ah man files are for developpers not (almost) litterate users..
<blue-frog> msgfmt file.po -o file.mo  ?
<blue-frog> or it is ridiculous?
<blue-frog> nope working..
<Yagisan> bddebian: I need a bigger pastebin
<Yagisan> bddebian: http://paste.uni.cc/9153
<bddebian> Uhm
<Yagisan> bddebian: hmm. I can't find my variables in there, except where they are defined to say "no"
<Yagisan> bddebian: even then they don't show up :(
<bddebian> Aye
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you publish your bzr branch? I didn't get any updates yesterday
<cbx33> no more updates yet
<cbx33> have been working on some other stuff unfortunately
<cbx33> like a webdav svn server
<LaserJock> well, but I thought you said last night that you made small changes
<cbx33> you got any updates?
<cbx33> hmmmi thought I'd published that
<cbx33> maybe i didn't
<LaserJock> no, I had lab cleanup today :-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, did you try out the script
<cbx33> clicking the add button
<cbx33> and having the table cell popup with the new button in it
<LaserJock> yeah, it kinda looked funny on my mac
<LaserJock> but I'm going to try to work on my Ubuntu box today a bit
<cbx33> nice
<LaserJock> I got rid of 6 computers and 6 monitors today in the cleanup
<LaserJock> it was hard to see them go
<cbx33> :(
* Yagisan wishes he was there to collect those computers
* cbx33 too
<LaserJock> 386s and PIs and PIIs
* Yagisan still uses PII's
<LaserJock> yeah, well we have new intel iMacs so...
* cbx33 has just setup a PIII for the webdavsvn
<Yagisan> Intel Macs ? you poor thing
<LaserJock> yeah, I can't put Ubuntu on it :(
<Yagisan> could have saved some money and got a few white boxes instead
<LaserJock> we also through out a lot of 5 1/4" floppies too
<bddebian> heh
* Yagisan has a 5 1/4" floppy in his amd64 box
<LaserJock> Yagisan: yeah, doesn't really matter though. My boss only wants macs
<LaserJock> I told him I wanted an AMD64 and he said, nope your getting an iMac
* Yagisan slaps autoconf around hard
<Yagisan> LaserJock: your boss, not an IT guy ?
<LaserJock> Yagisan: hehe, no. I'm a Chemistry grad  student
<LaserJock> He hates MS and loves linux
<Yagisan> LaserJock: that answers the question of why intel mac
<LaserJock> but in the end (like a lot of faculty in my department) OS X is the compromise
<jsgotangco> id like to work for your boss then
<Yagisan> LaserJock: uhh, so he wants *you* to port Ubuntu to the Intel Mac
<LaserJock> well, we have lots and lots of grant money
<LaserJock> Yagisan: no, he doesn't want me to use Ubuntu
<Yagisan> LaserJock: he's evil !!
<LaserJock> hehe, it's ok. He is a nice guy and I just installed Ubuntu on a spare box ;-)
<LaserJock> so I ssh a lot
<Yagisan> bddebian: well, I can now get the "yes" printed. Unfortunately, it prints that even when it should print "no"
<bddebian> heh
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<cbx33> Laser_away, ping when you are back
<Burgwork> Amaranth, 'ello
<Amaranth> hi
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<cbx33> can ESA go live on the site now?
<cbx33> spacey, I mailed jdub about going on the planet :p
<Bluekuja_laptop> oi pete
<Bluekuja_laptop> cbx33: i mailed jdub for it 1 month ago :)
<Bluekuja_laptop> cbx33: not exactly 1 month but almost 10-115 days ago
<Bluekuja_laptop> *15
<cbx33> Bluekuja_laptop, for your blog?
<cbx33> right I'm off for the night
<Bluekuja_laptop> pete yes
<cbx33> LaserJock, i was thinking about the project
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> did you want to a)
<cbx33> have a predefined number of boxes for the vsios
<cbx33> or make the window expandable
<cbx33> i was trying to get the widgets stored in an array
<cbx33> like button[0] 
<cbx33> would be getwidget"button1"
<cbx33> if you get my mening
<cbx33> but couldn't get it towork
<cbx33> have a think
<cbx33> I'm shooting off for a while
<cbx33> bbl
<Bluekuja_laptop> k cya
<LaserJock> cbx33: k
<pygi> spacey, poke
<blue-frog> there's a file /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/schooltoll/locales/schooltool.pot, apparently it's a compiled file but I don't understand where is the orignal file (if any)
<Burgundavia> http://www.wolfescience.com/byojeopardy/ <-- very cool
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you have two small kids, no?
<jsgotangco> i have a 4 year old
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> have you started them on the web yet?
<Burgundavia> and are you familiar with a product called BumperCar?
<jsgotangco> yes
<Burgundavia> have you seen the SoC proposal called SafetyBoat?
<Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/ChildrensBrowser
<jsgotangco> yes
<Burgundavia> given it is my idea, I am chatting with guy who is going to be doing it right now
<jsgotangco> oh?
<Burgundavia> but IANAP, so I need help on making it actually useful
<jsgotangco> who's mentoring it?
<Burgundavia> dholbach
<Burgundavia> me, unofficially
<jsgotangco> oh okay
<jsgotangco> i believe this is an epiphany plugin or something
<Burgundavia> basically a giant-oversized epiphany extension
<Burgundavia> however, there are some changes to epiphany needed, as well as communcation with other people
<jsgotangco> it would be a great addition to edubuntu when implemented however, it'll mean having both epi and firefox in the install
<Burgundavia> yes, but that is not too bad
<Burgundavia> epiphany already has the lockdown keys and is much less scary development environment
<Burgundavia> plus getting changes to epiphany is much much easier
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> hvae you tried the linux version of picasa?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> you?
<jsgotangco> yeah i grabbed it from mgalvin
<jsgotangco> since i get a 404
<jsgotangco> its built by codeweavers :)
<Burgundavia> seems to be US only currently
<Burgundavia> even I get a 404
<jsgotangco> but it is surprisingly snappy for a wine app
<jsgotangco> i dont get a 404 anymore
<jsgotangco> it seems out in the wild now
<Burgundavia> hmm
<jsgotangco>  Total size: 24MB. Picasa software (9MB), Wine (12MB) and Gecko engine (3MB).
<Burgundavia> wow
<jsgotangco> try the direct link
<jsgotangco> http://picasa.google.com/linux/thanks-deb.html
<Burgundavia> however, as I said on #gnome-hackers, picasa is amazing software on Windows but merely middle of the road on Linux
<Burgundavia> much like Firefox
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> it is pretty intuitive though
<Burgundavia> there are a few things it does that f-spot doesn;t
<LaserJock> hehe, you guys actually *use* your computer?
<jsgotangco> yes at night my computer is a level 8o orc raider lol
<Burgundavia> right
* Burgundavia whips LaserJock 
<LaserJock> mine is just a pbuilder platform
<LaserJock> +email, irssi, and firefox
<Burgundavia> mine if off
<Burgundavia> is off
<mgalvin> JaneW: ping
<jsgotangco> she usually doesn't do the online thing on weekends
<jsgotangco> ogra: we're missing a gartoon icon for xchat-gnome :/
<mgalvin> JaneW: unping
<mgalvin> ok thanks jsgotangco
<mgalvin> i send the email just a min ago anyways
<pygi> Hi all
<Burgundavia> salut pygi 
<pygi> Hey Burgundavia :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, around?
<jsgotangco> pygi: hi barely though, my daughter is playing with the computer
<pygi> jsgotangco, ah,nevermind then :)
<jsgotangco> ill be back around or email
<pygi> enjoy
<juliux> morning
<n1ws1> we want to install edubuntu
<ogra> n1ws1, http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<n1ws1> we want direct cafe in edubuntu
<n1ws1> we are in cameroon and we are working
<highvoltage> direct cafe? that's from direqlearn, right?
<michel> hello Iam in Cameroon and we have difficulties to install cyber cafe .
<michel> yes 
<n1ws1> yes
<michel> how can we insall
<highvoltage> michel, n1ws1: is this the same place you're working at?
<highvoltage> it's been ages since i've even looked at direct cafe, but as far as i know, it's designed for slackware
<highvoltage> so you probably have a .tar.gz file, right?
<n1ws1> yes
<ogra> highvoltage, do you have an url ? seems not even google points me anywhere
* highvoltage tries to find the link
<ogra> highvoltage, btw, the gettingstarted css explodes for me ... somehow the menu gets pushed out of the site by the screenshots it seems
<michel> I dont have any idea of how to install the cyber but I can work with edubuntu
<michel> so pleas do me a favour to give me the necessary instructions 
<highvoltage> ogra: it's a product from http://www.getopenlab.com , but i can't find a link to it from their site
<highvoltage> michel, n1ws1: where did you download it from?
<ogra> i never heard of it ...
<highvoltage> michel, n1ws1: we can only help you if we have a copy too, and I'm not even sure that it would work with edubuntu, since openlab uses ltsp.org
<highvoltage> ogra: I know the author, he's ignorant and loud, and it's probably not edubuntu worthy
<ogra> http://getopenlab.com/olmambo/content/view/1127/50/
<ogra> got it
<highvoltage> (well, kind of know, anyway)
<ogra> looking fod direct cafe doesnt help much if the name is direqcafe ;)
<ogra> i bet that works only with xdmcp based ltsp
* highvoltage wouldn't be surprised
<ogra> bah, and its gtk1.2, nothing we can include by default
<highvoltage> ogra: on the css, i'll look at that again today, and fix the white stripe at the bottom too, and some other polishings
<highvoltage> wow, i didn't realise it was *that* bad
<highvoltage> ogra: you'll probably come across lots of software for education written by A.J. Venter, if I can give you any advice: avoid it :)
<ogra> but if i had known about it 6 weeks ago we could have made it a SoC project, damned
<ogra> highvoltage, it has good concepts, if you find a decent programmer to rewrite it it can get good ;)
<ogra> ugh, direqcafe is delphi ?? thats for windows, isnt it ? 
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<ogra> ah, no linux version is in freepascal ...
<highvoltage> ogra: *nods*
<ogra> hi jsgAWAY 
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: glad you're taking up the newsletter
<highvoltage> i think the newsletter will be great
<jsgotangco> thank you
<ogra> phew, this software wont work with ubuntu :/ 
<ogra> n1ws1, that software wont run on a standard ubuntu system, i fear you have to contact the author to ask hinm to adjust it
<ogra> oh, did i scare him ? 
<highvoltage> i dunno. perhaps :/
<highvoltage> if he hung around a bit more, you couldn've told him about the future edubuntu plans, at least :/
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> for two of the functions dieqcafe offers he could even use s-c-p
<highvoltage> the openlab software has lots of credibility within the government education parts here in south africa
<highvoltage> lots of people know about it
<highvoltage> but openlab is very hacky, and i would far recommend edubuntu above it
<highvoltage> (not because i'm biased, of course)
<ogra> yeah, but gtk1.2 is already a blocker to even get it to main
<ogra> we'll need more programmers or people writing stuff for us ...
<highvoltage> i've thought about that this week, and i spend too much time doing stuff i think it's important, but it keeps me distracted from what i really want to do
<highvoltage> previously i wouldn've jumped to something like the newsletter, because it will be great for edubuntu
<highvoltage> but i'm going to gradually focuss more on working with you to get edubuntu things working better
<ogra> thats a great plan ...
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> there's lots of other people who want to do documentation and website stuff.
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> glad you feel that way.
<ogra> doc is always an easy entry point its good to leave that to newcomers, look at cbx33 ... he started with writing ltsp manpages and now already gets a pygtk course from Laser_away :)
<ogra> in 6 months he'll help with packaging :)
<jsgotangco> heh so you're saying...we're slacking....
<highvoltage> cbx33 is really great though :)
<ogra> nah
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> he sets an amazing example for futrue edubuntu members :)
* jsgotangco admits packaging is his weakness
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> packaging is something i want to be good at just because i think it's important for any ubuntu developer to be good at it,
<highvoltage> but not necassarily beacuse i want to maintain lots of packages.
<ogra> well, even if youre bad at it, thta suffices, we have revu ;)
* highvoltage should look at that
<highvoltage> i can put basic packages together, our ubuntu tuxlab setup will be mostly debianised when we do the dapper rollout
<highvoltage> no more 'just copying over files' ;)
* ogra isnt good at packaging but knows how to use lintian ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, thats really trivial to package ... look at edubuntu-docs its just copying files ;)
<highvoltage> yeah, i've noticed :)
<jsgotangco> i'll try packaging non-invasive apps like docs for starters i guess
<highvoltage> ogra: i've wanted to package something, even simple, for edubuntu. but i have to become a motu first, and then a main contributer, right?
<jsgotangco> no
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> you no need to be motu to push
<ogra> everybody can just package and upload to revu 
<highvoltage> aaah
<highvoltage> ogra: is this explained on a wiki page? i'm hungry for more info :)
<ogra> MOTUs will review and critisize it there, if the packaging is ok then, someone will upload it for you
<highvoltage> ah great
<jsgotangco> crash course heh
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/REVU
* jsgotangco grabs build-essential to start again
<ogra> oh, and dont miss Laser_away's wonderful packaging guide ;)
<ogra> its in yelp in the default install 
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i actually got it on the first try
<highvoltage> wow, i haven't seen this packaging guide in help before... cool!
<jsgotangco> :P
<ogra> highvoltage, we'll need to update the screenshots on gettingstarted, there were a lot changes (i.e. usplash, the CD menu has completely changed and indeed the theme doesnt match yet)
<ogra> for the theme stuff, you can grab the shots of edubuntu-docs 
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, will do. i'll do a new installation under vmware this evening and update
<Bluekuja> hello ogra, highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey Bluekuja 
<Bluekuja> :)
<ogra> hey Bluekuja 
<highvoltage> long time no se
<highvoltage> see
<Bluekuja> yeah. I'm alwais around but in this period I'm really really busy working on packages and edubuntu-it
<highvoltage> great
<Bluekuja> getting started in italian is almost translated
<highvoltage> oooh!
<Bluekuja> edubuntu FAQ already done
<Bluekuja> forum is online now
<jsgotangco> ogra: is there anything to mention for development?
<ogra> in the FAQ ?
<jsgotangco> newsletter heh
<jsgotangco> im doing a draft later
<ogra> oh, only that testing and fixing of the last major bugs is going on
<ogra> s/testing/CD testing/
<jsgotangco> hmmm we're so close to relesae
<ogra> a call for testers and a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current might be a bit late though
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: jon, when getting started translation is finished I ping you, so maybe you can add a link in the website
<jsgotangco> its probably much better to release a newsletter on release
<ogra> yep
<pygi> highvoltage, jsgotangco , poke?
<jsgotangco> hi
<Bluekuja> ooh pygi
<highvoltage> Bluekuja: for sure
<pygi> Hey Andrea
<highvoltage> pygi: pokeback
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: tnx jon
<pygi> jsgotangco, highvoltage , I'll make a LP team
<jsgotangco> sure
<highvoltage> pygi: ok, remember to make jsgotangco an administrator though
<highvoltage> since he's leading it :)
<pygi> yes, yes,ok :)
<Bluekuja> pygi: mario not more in #ubuntu-it?
<Bluekuja> hehe
<pygi> Bluekuja, no need :P
<jsgotangco> this is like splitting -traffic into 3
<Bluekuja> xD
<pygi> wth? I lost adress bar in epiphany? :-/
<ogra> hmm, why did nobody report that the cursor theme is broken on the edubuntu RC, damned
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: can you then add Newsletter to the documentation part next to your name on /EdubuntuWiki?
<ogra> guys TEST the isos and report bugs, its the last chance to get them fixed !
<highvoltage> shit, i downloaded the iso but at work. i'll drive there in 15 minutes and rsync (from thursday's iso) and test pronto!
<jsgotangco> good thing i have my iso here
<ogra> highvoltage, take your time, i'm just wondering why nobody noticed it :)
<loogaroo> hi all
<highvoltage> hi loogaroo 
<loogaroo> does someone know, where the docs,bug reports and howtos for LTSP for dapper are?
<pygi> jsgotangco, you'll have to make team
<pygi> on "contact mail" it says my mail is already taken (!!?)
<jsgotangco> no worries ill do it later
<ogra> loogaroo, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bugs
<ogra> loogaroo, best howto is currently this channel ;) 
<ogra> there are manpages for ltsp-build-client, ltsp-update-sshkeys, ltsp-update-kernels incluede in the package
<loogaroo> thx, I looked on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ltsp/+bugs
<lucasvo> ogra: which image should one test?
<ogra> recent dailies :) 
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/
<juliux> hi ogra 
<lucasvo> current?
<lucasvo> wow
<lucasvo> new icons :)
<juliux> ogra, what do you think about this http://212.63.81.40/detail.php?ART=25221 ?
<ogra> juliux, well, given that the last 5 i bought from you costed a lot less its quite expensive, but should work fine ;)
<ogra> or is this 79 for all 7 ?
<ogra> "- Sound: onBoard, SB kompatibel" is always a bit worrying
<lucasvo> soundblaster is not supported well?
<ogra> sb comaptible ....
<juliux> ogra, no 79 for one
<ogra> means you likely have an ISA onboard soundcard
<lucasvo> juliux: thats a lot
<juliux> ogra, but you get a better price as a e.v.
<juliux> lucasvo, its cheaper then on ebay ;)
<ogra> lucasvo, which additionally means you have to run isapnp and do other manual fuss to get it running
<lucasvo> juliux: what for do you need it?
<juliux> lucasvo, as thinclient ;)
<lucasvo> they aren't real thin clients
<lucasvo> torrents are slow
<ogra> lucasvo, what are "real thin clients" then ? 
<lucasvo> http://cgi.ebay.de/Compaq-Thin-Client-Evo-T30-Win-XP-300MHz-256MB-84252_W0QQitemZ9731083629QQcategoryZ65570QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<lucasvo> ogra: without 10gb hard disk
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> well, you can just take it out
<juliux> lucasvo, i need some thinclients for me privat, i only want to use thinclients at home
<lucasvo> http://cgi.ebay.de/COMPAQ-iPAQ-Shuttle-Thin-Client-1GHz-256MB-20GB-CD-ROM_W0QQitemZ8816738943QQcategoryZ77191QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem <
<lucasvo> the same
<lucasvo> but it has CD and even 20gb hard disk :)
<ogra> hey, 10 only :)
<lucasvo> juliux: you have also one of these wyse thin clients without psu?
<juliux> lucasvo, i have wyse thinclients but i havent test it with linux
<lucasvo> ogra: how is the linux support for wyse 3360?
<ogra> no idea
<lucasvo> you can buy them there for 6 EUR
<jsgotangco> freakin humidity
<loogaroo> is it with a dapper ltsp setup now possible to discover a serial mouse?
<ogra> loogaroo, yep, via lts.conf
<ogra> there is no possible way to autodetect serial mice and when i started a call for help on the mailing list to get some data for a possible detect algorithm i only recieved 3 datasets
<ogra> which didnt get me anwhere indeed
<ogra> loogaroo, btw, there is also an #edubuntu-de channel ;)
<loogaroo> oh :)
<ogra> (even nearly everybody in there is also here :) )
<jsgotangco> im sorry to hear about the serial mouse issue
<ogra> its fine, you just need to set it manually 
<ogra> at least that works now (for ubuntu as well as for ltsp)
<jsgotangco> (not to mention they are a rarity)
<ogra> given the amount of complaints that autodetection doesnt work for serial mice, my impression is they are very widely used :)
<ogra> but given the feedback on my call for data i tend to agree with you :)
<highvoltage> serial mice are also likely to be non-optical, which means that it's also probably way over end-of-life for some time
<ogra> btw, there is still X_MOUSE_DEV=/dev/psaux in gettingstarted ...
<ogra> please remove that 
<jsgotangco> ahh it started to rain
<jsgotangco> cooling down a bit
<jsgotangco> what's the weather like in europe at this time?
<loogaroo> jsgotangco: 21C in Vienna
<jsgotangco> that's not so bad
<highvoltage> feels like about 15C in cape town... brrrr
<jsgotangco> it was around 36C here till it rained
<spacey> its 15 here too
<spacey> the rainy netherlands
<ogra> here as well
<ogra> even its still dry
<ogra> but looks like it'll rain soon
<jsgotangco> summer is about to end here
<ogra> it didnt even start here
<lucasvo> :(
<spacey> the netherlands had 2 weeks of "summer". now its gone again
<jsgotangco> i gotta go
<jsgotangco> have a good weekend all
<highvoltage> cheers jsgotangco 
* ogra adds landscape-client to the edubuntu seeds :)
<lucasvo> ogra: landscape?
<ogra> apt-cache show landscape-client
<lucasvo> ogra: you can already begin to make an webversion of ltspadmin :)
<ogra> nope, thats the job of our landscape department
<lucasvo> so why do you develop ltspadmin at all it's gonne be replaced by landscape?
<ogra> landscape is a webtool
<ogra> i'm not intrested at all in web based tools
<lucasvo> at least it's a standard that looks the same on all sorts of OS
<ogra> landscape wont run on other OSs
<lucasvo> no, but the client is able to even use his nokia 700 to view the interface
<ogra> while LTSPManager will run on all OSs that use our ltsp
<lucasvo> the new official version of ltsp, will it be the one you developed or will they change it?
<ogra> ltsp.org will never be the same as ours, its not possible
<lucasvo> why?
<ogra> look at the implementation
<lucasvo> in the wiki of ltsp they said that the muecow will be used for the next release...
<ogra> how ?
<ogra> thats technically not possible
<ogra> muecow can only be developed inside a distro
<ogra> ltsp.org ltsp is built to run on *all* distros possible
<ogra> so there is no way to make ltsp.org ltsp be muecow
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<ogra> highvoltage, do you have a gpg key ?
<highvoltage> ogra: yep
<highvoltage> ogra: it's at http://launchpad.net/people/jonathan
<highvoltage> ogra: why?
<ogra> to sign it if we meet in paris ;)
<highvoltage> cool :)
* highvoltage abuses work bandwidth badly with debmirror
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> (at least we have an apt-proxy, so the abuse wouldn't be *that* bad)
<ogra> mirroring the whole archive ? 
<highvoltage> well, at least main for now
<ogra> woah
<ogra> thats still some 100G
<ogra> 200 i think
<highvoltage> oh, i mean...
<highvoltage> universe multiverse and main for i386, just binaries
<highvoltage> i think that's 11GB or so
<highvoltage> after that i'll probably do source
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> hi everyone
<highvoltage> about ESA...
<highvoltage> it's really so nice, wouldn't it be best to use that as the new front page?
<cbx33> highvoltage, that's up to you
<cbx33> I'm perfectly happy with that
<cbx33> if you and everyone else is
<highvoltage> ogra: do you have a few seconds, could you look at http://www.edubuntu.org/node/16 ?
<highvoltage> ogra: do you think it should be a seperate page, or the home page of edubuntu.org? i think it really just needs the manifesto.
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you have the original screenshots that's on that page?
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm sure we could just include the manifesto in ESA
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
<cbx33> original screenshots?
<highvoltage> yeah, the full size screenshots
<cbx33> Yes I have the individal screenshots....
<cbx33> I was going to make it so we could link them in
<cbx33> where you have like a group of 3
<cbx33> that was going to link to a page, where there would be those 3 and possibly more for that group
<ogra> highvoltage, do you want to put the manifesto above or below the access denied message ? :P
<cbx33> does that sound reasonable?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> highvoltage, can we publish the page now ?
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> hehehehe
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, it's still unpublished!
<highvoltage> (d'oh)
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes please. at least so that ogra can read it :)
<cbx33> I wouldn't publish till you said so :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: :)
<ogra> DOIT!
<cbx33> ....published.....
* cbx33 hides under the table
<highvoltage> cbx33: another thing that would be nice, if the edubuntu logo comes off (since it is on the banner already) and the circle of friends is added in there
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> c..c..c..can ..y...y..y.ou...ssss.s.ssseee it now ogra
<ogra> isnt that a bit much for a homepage ? 
<highvoltage> it is quite, hey
<ogra> i agree, the content is great, but i'd rather split it in separate sections (like its done in docbook already iirc)
<ogra> thats very much info for an initial startpage
* cbx33 apologises for being loquacious
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, so let's keep it a seperate page and take some of the most relevant parts to the front page at some stage
<highvoltage> cbx33: where should that page link from?
<cbx33> ogra, what about having links through to the relevant sections on seperate pages?
<cbx33> like a maths page?
<highvoltage> cbx33: and please add a /friendlyurl :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, in the aliases?
<cbx33> in your aliases list highvoltage could we edit Glossary to have a small letter
<cbx33> unlessyou've linked to it already
<highvoltage> cbx33: it's under URL path settings
<highvoltage> cbx33: i thought about it too, but ogra suggested we use WikiStyle, hence the 'Glossary'
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> although, all small letters tend to look better in a url
<highvoltage> i wonder if drupal knows the difference... let's just check on that
<cbx33> that's what I thought....we just need to keep consistency
<highvoltage> wicked
<cbx33> it doesn't care
<highvoltage> it doesn't :)
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> in that case, let's keep it consistent wiki style
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> InSchool ?
<highvoltage> cbx33: rename at will! (only case changes, of course)
<highvoltage> perhaps something more descriptive
<cbx33> EdubuntuInSchools
<cbx33> UsingEdubuntuInSchools
<highvoltage> edubuntuforschools EdubuntuForSchools
<cbx33> HowToEffectivelyUseEdubuntuInTheModernSchool
<highvoltage> (i think)
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> np
<highvoltage> then it lokos ok in lowercase and WikiStyle
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so do you want me to go ahead and modify all the aliases for the other pages?
<highvoltage> if you have other suggestions, please tell, you've done most of the work on this and it's your choice too :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, i'll do it too, but more eyes are better :)
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<cbx33> highvoltage, what's the diff between node/8 and node/9
<cbx33> there are two aliases
<cbx33> they point to the two pages
<cbx33>  /news and news
<cbx33> All aliases have been changed
<highvoltage> node 9 is the proper one
<highvoltage> node 8 i think is an old one
<cbx33> is node8 for deletion?
* highvoltage nods
<cbx33> can i remove the alias?
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> shall i delete the page now too?
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> done
<cbx33> what's
<cbx33> http://www.edubuntu.org/node/6
<pygi> spacey, poke
<spacey> pong
<cbx33> and http://www.edubuntu.org/node/10
<highvoltage> same
<cbx33> spacey, i set a mail to jdub, but Bluekuja said he did that a few weeks ago and hasn't heard anything yet - just to keep you updated
<lucasvo> this is a good design
<cbx33> so 6 and 10 can go?
<cbx33> lucasvo, how goes the journal design?
<highvoltage> was the /6 the Khangman one? i think i deleted it while you asked :)
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> lucasvo: what? you like the design!? wow!!!
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> way to go highvoltage 
<pygi> spacey, what happened witht he book? :(
<lucasvo> If it's possible I would make a concave border next to the Navigation box
<lucasvo> a smother transition from header to menu
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i see what you mean
<cbx33> highvoltage, or a dashed line running down the left of the navigation
<cbx33> just to break it up
<highvoltage> i thought about that too, i initially thought of having a solid, lighter edubuntu-red line
* lucasvo doesn't like dashed lines
* highvoltage neither :)
<highvoltage> that's so css 1.0 :)
* cbx33 apologises :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: no problem :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: a friend will do the design
<lucasvo> cbx33: one should include the edubuntu newsletter
<spacey> pygi: what happened?
<ogra> the fridge will have the newsletter 
<pygi> spacey, well, you wrote nothing? :-/
<spacey> i did
<highvoltage> cbx33: so, where should we link to EdubuntuForSchool?
<spacey> except last chapter
<pygi> hm, I see nothing on the wiki? :-/
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/ThinClientIntroduction
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you update the link to the meeting minutes
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements
<highvoltage> cbx33: i don't think i did. remind me?
<cbx33> highvoltage, where you have a link to meeting logs
<pygi> spacey, ah, you need to link to if from worksheet
<spacey> i have to hurry to shop now
<spacey> else i don't have white russians tonight
<highvoltage> ah, right!
<spacey> pygi: i didn't know that
<lucasvo> highvoltage: if it's possible, I would make the copyright line the whole width
<pygi> spacey, ah
<spacey> anyway, bbl
<pygi> spacey, just look at how worksheet looks now
<lucasvo> so that there isn't any yellow menu next to it
* ogra didnt know its "white russian saturday" in NL
<spacey> :)
* lucasvo likes white russion
<lucasvo> *russian
<cbx33> wouldn't either a replacement to point to the minutes
<cbx33> or add an extra link to the minutes
<cbx33> what do yo uthink?
<cbx33> ogra, mind if I ask a quick python quesiton?
* ogra still prefers expensive scotch
<ogra> cbx33, shoot
<cbx33> and highvoltage to keep with the wikistyle names....the getting started link on the right should link to GettingStarted
<highvoltage> lucasvo: mind making a list of your suggestions? i'm frying some bigger fish on the site right now specifically, and wouldn't want to forget your great suggestions
<cbx33> ogra, how can i store widgets in an array?
<highvoltage> (agreed on the whole-width copyright line (btw)
<cbx33> wanna chat about it in pm?
<lucasvo> ogra: I'm fine with this, you'll pay it?
<ogra> cbx33, we can do it here
<lucasvo> highvoltage: ok
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok
<cbx33> ogra, I have a table of widgets....
<cbx33> a column of entry boxes, and 2 buttons associated with each
<ogra> cbx33, widget[0]  = gtk.Widget(something)
<cbx33> that's what I tried
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> (indeed the array must exist before and be initialized)
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> ogra, ...sorry to be stupid
<cbx33> how do i define an array for that usage
<ogra> its very ugly, i'd rather have all widgets in glade already and show7hide them
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well, I'm doing it that way now
<ogra> widget[] =""
<cbx33> but if I wanted to checkthrough them all
<ogra> ^^^ initialize 
<cbx33> ok thanx
<ogra> at the top of your function
<cbx33> excellent thank you ogra 
<cbx33> would you believe we even have a bzr branch for it now :D
<ogra> nice ! :)
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> gISOMount is coming along nicely
<highvoltage> cbx33: we already have a MeetingLogs under QuickLinks
<highvoltage> cbx33: where should that point to?
<cbx33> highvoltage, yes I know, iwas saying either edit that to point to the minutes....
<cbx33> or add a new link to the minutes
<cbx33> just a suggestion
<cbx33> i wonder if the minutes should be stored in drupal
<cbx33> instead of on the wiki
<cbx33> under the guise that they shoulnd't need to be edited by lots of people
<cbx33> or added to
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think wiki for now is best
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sure ;)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: what's your mail address?
<lucasvo> or your LP name?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: jonathan
<cbx33> ogra, in glade, how can I grey a box out
<cbx33> so a button cannot be pressed
<ogra> set_sensitive
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> same for a text entry field?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: sent
<ogra> for every widget+
<highvoltage> lucasvo: thanks!
<cbx33> highvoltage, what do you think about the link?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i looked on the wiki, but it seems that that is the page where edubuntu meeting minutes are linked from
<highvoltage> cbx33: is there even an edubuntu specific page with links to the specific minutes?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> highvoltage, i was talking about should we have a link to https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<highvoltage> aaaah
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm curious did you make the khangman screenshot on the front page?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes. why?
<lucasvo> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuForSchools < the paragraph Common questions should be a link to the FAQ
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> you didn;t by any change type in edubuntu as the letters for your guesses did you ???? :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes. i *must* have hidden messages in my khangman screenshots. it's an edubuntu tradition!
<highvoltage> cbx33: previous messages in the khangman screenshots have been controversial ;)
<cbx33> no no, I did nthe same when i did my screen shot
<ogra> oh yes, it was very controversial :)
<cbx33> what was it
<cbx33> doooo tell
<cbx33> highvoltage, I've noticed a slight problem with the edubuntu.org site, when viewed in konqueror
<cbx33> if you size it smaller, the nav jumps down to below the text
<lucasvo> highvoltage: could you please add a login box to the site?
<cbx33> lucasvo, not needed 
<highvoltage> lucasvo: we'll add it when znarl sorts out the mail
<cbx33> :p
<lucasvo> cbx33: how should on login?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: before he does that there's little point, since people can't register themselves
<cbx33> edubuntu.org/?q=user
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I would like to login :)
<highvoltage> just go to /user/login
<ogra> the website itself should stay closed as the ubuntu one is
<ogra> only the community parts in it should be editable
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> ogra: people who get login access won't automatically be able to edit pages
<ogra> yes, thats what i mean ...
<ogra> only fo rthe forum or howto sections 
<highvoltage> ogra: only people who i add to the 'editors' group, such as yourself, pips1, cbx33 and lucasvo can edit
<ogra> yep
<lucasvo> *lol*
<highvoltage> forum? :(
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I don't get the forgot password mail
<ogra> also wasnt it planned to attach it to LP before release ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: you mean the login?
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, that was a requirement
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, it was, but LP admins said that they won't auth across boxes from LP, and they consider drupal too insecure to run on the same box as LP
<ogra> so you can use your LP login like everywhere else
<highvoltage> ogra: so it doesn't seam that we'll have LP auth with drupal any time soon :/
<ogra> then we wont have a forum etc ...
<ogra> :/
<highvoltage> ogra: do we really want a forum?
<ogra> users want one
<highvoltage> *sigh* you're right
<lucasvo> ogra: ubuntuforums.org?
<cbx33> an official one
<ogra> i have many german teachers that are interested
<lucasvo> forum is like faq
<ogra> ??
<lucasvo> it just shows that the documentation is incomplete
<ogra> forum has several other purposes
<cbx33> ogra -   File "./gisomount", line 46
<cbx33>     button[] =""
<highvoltage> the thing about forums is, people who tend to be knowledgable don't participate ther
<highvoltage> so it ends up being very noisy places with very low signal ratios
<cbx33> highvoltage, yes, they tend to use ML's instead
<ogra> thats fine for our purpose
<highvoltage> ok :)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: they aren't in #ubuntu either :) 
<cbx33> it didn't like that ogra
<ogra> they can discuss teaqching material etc
<ogra> its not supposed to be a technical help center
<ogra> and the demand for it stands since more than 7 months now
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I'd disagree with your forum is like a faq statement
<lucasvo> highvoltage: could you please reset my password, since I can't change mine. I don't get the mails
<lucasvo> Yagisan: of course it's not 100% true
<lucasvo> but in several ways it is.
<lucasvo> especially howto forums
<Yagisan> lucasvo: none of my projects use a forum as a faq
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, then let's have the forums. they won't be able to log in with LP accounts though, but I think we can survive until we get that without it
<highvoltage> lucasvo: ok
<ogra> highvoltage, nope, i'll try to arrange soemthing different during edgy
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<ogra> we can ask for a subsection on ubuntuusers for now
<lucasvo> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra: with 'something', you mean LP auth?
<ogra> even i'm not happy about that
<lucasvo> ogra: maybe even ubuntuusers.de for german teachers
<cbx33> highvoltage, http://www.progbox.co.uk/Screenshot-4.png
<highvoltage> cbx33: ouch, i see what you mean. i thought you meant something else
<cbx33> nope...just thought I'd mention it
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm not following you. are you unhappy about not having forums, or the lp auth?
<cbx33> ogra, any reason why that python line failed
<cbx33> button[] =""
<cbx33>   File "./gisomount", line 46
<ogra> probably its =''
<cbx33>     button[] =""
<cbx33>            ^
<cbx33> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<cbx33> oh ok
<ogra> or button=[] 
<ogra> not sure, i'm currently not doing any py
<cbx33> ok....
<cbx33> i had button=[]  before
<cbx33> and that works but when i come to add something....it doeslike it.... - eg  button[0] =gtk.Button("New")
<cbx33> Traceback (most recent call last):
<cbx33>   File "./gisomount", line 47, in on_add
<cbx33>     button[0] =gtk.Button("New")
<cbx33> IndexError: list assignment index out of range
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/hwdb-client/hwdb-gui
<ogra> see there
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> but as i said, every py programmer will scream 
<ogra> so rather do it in glade
<ogra> and use hide/show
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> then i suppose when I'm trying to refernece, I can use string conc***** what ever it's called, to choose like "button"+count
<lucasvo> cbx33: do you agree if I merge the Common questions of EforSchools with the EFAQ?
<cbx33> to get button1
<cbx33> lucasvo, do you mean replace parts of ESA
<lucasvo> cbx33: I could make a link to the faq
<lucasvo> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuForSchools
<cbx33> I would prefer adding a link to the FAQ
<cbx33> then I can do the same in the ESA document that is in the svn repo
<lucasvo> cbx33: I added the common questions to the faq
<lucasvo> now, can I remove this section and make a link to the faq?
<cbx33> I'd prefer it if you didn't remove..... ogra highvoltage what are your thoughts...I'd like to keep ESA consistent
<lucasvo> EFS==ESA?
<cbx33> ESA
<ogra> keep it as it is now ...
<lucasvo> uh, the title Edubunt Homepage is <h2>
<lucasvo> while Linux for young human beings is <h1>
<lucasvo> thats not very seach engine friendly!
<cbx33> highvoltage, which do you prefer
<cbx33> we should standardise throughout the site
<highvoltage> lucasvo: that's strange
<lucasvo> cbx33: as well in ESA you use h1
<highvoltage> lucasvo: ah, i know why
<lucasvo> <h2 class="main-title">Edubuntu Home Page</h2>
<highvoltage> lucasvo: it's because it's origins are from other html documents
<cbx33> hehe
<lucasvo> <h2 class="main-title">Edubuntu in schools</h2>
<lucasvo> <h1>The Edubuntu Difference</h1>
<lucasvo> that's not very reasonable :)
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> lemme check that
<highvoltage> cbx33: that's another thing to keep in mind when we edit pages
<ogra> put a template anywhere 
<ogra> as a policy document
<highvoltage> cbx33: we should put together a kind of 'editors guide' for the website editors, to... yes, what ogra says :)
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I could do that
<cbx33> highvoltage, why isn't the main title an H1
<cbx33> that's what I want to know :p
<cbx33> I'll change all mine to h2
<cbx33> shall i?
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes
<ogra> can the "(intel chipsets)" please be changed to intel CPUs or intel processors in the FAQ ?
<cbx33> then h3 for the subsections
<highvoltage> lucasvo: ok, i just started
<lucasvo> cbx33: on all other pages it's like this
<highvoltage> lucasvo: but you can take it over
<lucasvo> highvoltage: oh, ok
<lucasvo> highvoltage: where?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: you are very sensible :)
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> lucasvo: http://www.edubuntu.org/node/19
<lucasvo> highvoltage: why?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: well, both cbx33 and I haven't really picked up on the headings thing, and you did. just take the compliment :p
<cbx33> heh
* cbx33 be stupid :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: nah, you're not :)
<cbx33> ogra, did you want the ESA to have it's common questions or for the link to be added to FAQ?
<cbx33> i took it one way and I think lucasvo took it the other... :p
<cbx33> :S
<ogra> <ogra> keep it as it is now ...
<highvoltage> i think drupal should actually not use <h1> and <h2> in the page, so that an editor can use it logically
<ogra> whats there to misunderstand ? 
<cbx33> i didn;t know if that was before or after lucasvo edited it
<lucasvo> highvoltage: no
<ogra> keep like in "dont change it" :)
<ogra> or like in "dont change it as it was originally"
<cbx33> lucasvo, do you have those sections to put them back in?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: because search engines look for h1 
<highvoltage> lucasvo: aah
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes, I will do it
<cbx33> highvoltage, i think h1 is on
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> i'm not constantly reloading that pacge and follow your changes every minute
<lucasvo> highvoltage: so the page title should be H1
<cbx33> but it shouldn't use h2
<lucasvo> cbx33: of course!
<cbx33> :p
<lucasvo> and if so, it shouldn't be bigger then h1 :)
<cbx33> yes
<lucasvo> cbx33: are you currently editing esa?
<cbx33> lucasvo, no
<lucasvo> cbx33: should I redo the h1,h2,h3..?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i've attached edubuntu.tar to EditorsGuide
<lucasvo> or did you already do it?
<cbx33> already done
<ogra> please dont randomly change the FAQ, i'll have to get approval for the changes there from silbs
<cbx33> ogra, if i have 5 buttons which all do the same thing....but should act on different fields.....can i add paramteres to the handler?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: it's the edubuntu drupal theme, if people want to install it locally or to hack
<lucasvo> ok
<highvoltage> lucasvo: can you also refer to it in the Guide?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I don't see the attachement :)
<cbx33> ogra, so when ia creat a signal instead of just running... on_click....it can run on_click("button1")
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i just pressed submit. i think you were too fast for me there
<ogra> cbx33, sure
<cbx33> thank you....sorry for the n00bish questions
<ogra> cbx33, we all started once ...
<cbx33> true
* highvoltage has started three times with python so far
<ogra> did someone see my statement about the chipset in the FAQ above ? 
<cbx33> ogra, yes i did
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> was waiting till everyone had finished editing
<highvoltage> ogra: about the ISA sb card?
<cbx33> it seems to be a frenzy
<ogra> highvoltage, <ogra> can the "(intel chipsets)" please be changed to intel CPUs or intel processors in the FAQ ?
<highvoltage> ah, ok
<ogra> but please dont make other changes to the FAQ page, as i said above i need to get approval for every change from silbs for them
<lucasvo> cbx33: I only lost one question, the one about where to get edubuntu
<ogra> since the FAQs need to be consistent over {ed,k}ubuntu
<highvoltage> ogra: i'd just like to change the next release version from '6.04' to 6.06
<lucasvo> cbx33: why is this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy different to: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuForSchools ?
<highvoltage> that should be fine, right?
<jsgotangco> hey!
<cbx33> lucasvo, the wiki one is an old version
<lucasvo> ok
<cbx33> and can be deleted soon
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<highvoltage> ok, done
<highvoltage> lucasvo: the wiki FAQ now only contains a link to the www one
<highvoltage> (sorry, thought you were talking about FAQ)
<ogra> whats the purpose of the name EdubuntuForSchools ??
<ogra> our system is intended for shools first place
<highvoltage> ogra: we couldn't think of a better name for it :(
<ogra> so indeed edubuntu is for schools
<highvoltage> ogra: i know it states the obvious. other suggestoins?
<ogra> it somehow indicates that edubuntu in schools is something special 
<highvoltage> good point
<ogra> not really ...
<ogra> but we should find something ...
<highvoltage> perhaps UsingEdubuntu
<highvoltage> would be better?
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> cbx33: can you apply that? unless you have more suggestions?
<cbx33> ogra, when a button is clicked in python the functions always have the parameters like so def on_mount(self,widget):
<cbx33> highvoltage, sure
<cbx33> ogra, how do i add a parameter to be passed back in glade signals
<ogra> EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy is nice because it indicates promotional stuff but EdubuntuForSchools seems redundant
<cbx33> ogra, yes, but we didnt want to put Advocacy on the site :p
<highvoltage> Advocacy is a horrible word in any advocacy doc though
<ogra> up to the native speakers then :)
<highvoltage> that would be cbx33 then :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: we leave it to you
<cbx33> Using Edubuntu it is
<highvoltage> ogra: are you getting some sleep at least lately?
<cbx33> he'd better be
<ogra> i had some last night, yes :)
<ogra> and i will have some this night ...
<highvoltage> nice. sounds like Edubuntu is nicely on track :)
<ogra> but then the frequency will drastically drop until release :)
<highvoltage> (ogra's sleep levels are a good indicator on the status of Edubuntu)
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<ogra> 6 CD isos and 3 DVD isos want to be tested from monday on
<highvoltage> hi Lord_Athur 
<cbx33> ogra, I'll do my best to play my part there
<highvoltage> ogra: that's like, almost nearly complete freeze, right?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep, monday or tuesday we'll roll the final isos ... from then on it will only be testing
<highvoltage> exciting stuff
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> woohoooo
<lucasvo> we should make a Help page on the wiki
<lucasvo> I mean on the home page
* jsgotangco would like to announce that picasa on linux is a piece of crap
<cbx33> ogra, in def on_mount(self,widget): - which is a signal handler what do self and widget do
<lucasvo> where we list the irc channels, forums and mailing lists
<ogra> jsgotangco, and, do you have any real news ? :P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: don't believe the hype!
<cbx33> is widget the name of the widget that initiated the signal?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: yep, help page is good idea
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah i got to fix our toilet a few yours ago
<lucasvo> highvoltage: what do you think should be written on the editors guide?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: "Help & Support" even better :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, now *thats* exciting, tell us more
<ogra> did you find any treasures ? 
<jsgotangco> it was pretty messy
<cbx33> yuk
<jsgotangco> but it reminded me of our colours as well
<ogra> gold or oil ? 
<jsgotangco> more like methane gas
<ogra> lol
<highvoltage> lucasvo: things like, don't use <h1>... and things like WikiStyleURLPaths, etc
<ogra> dont smoke in te toilet then :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: we'll probably populate it as we go along, and find mistakes that we make, and prevent newcommers from the future to not do the same
<cbx33> highvoltage, yup
<Bluekuja> hello guys
<jsgotangco> so what's happening here?
<jsgotangco> oh btw
<jsgotangco> AMD64 build today is fine
<jsgotangco> (if that's exciting)
<highvoltage> it is.
<Bluekuja> cbx33: did you ping me before?
<ogra> jsgotangco, wohooo, sure that is
<ogra> thanks for testing !!
<cbx33> Bluekuja, nope
<jsgotangco> i have an i386 being installed at the moment too
<Bluekuja> cbx33: oh oki
<Yagisan> cbx33: jsgotangco: to busy to test deng ? (I don't see any emails from either of you)
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: ouch...
<ogra> jsgotangco, should be fine as well ... i wouldnt expect any regressions
<cbx33> Yagisan, :(
* jsgotangco promises to test deng after release
* cbx33 too
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: cbx33: my reason for asking is, we release beta4 tomorrow (after I fix build system breakage), and I wanted to know if you wanted to continue getting snapshots during the beta5 release cycle
<cbx33> yes i surely do
<cbx33> I've just been swamped right not
<cbx33> now
<cbx33> though I should be able to work from home for a few days next week
<jsgotangco> i would probably be busy with amd64 in a few days till release
<Yagisan> cbx33: I understand. I'm busy too, then the day before release I get the build system busted on me :(
* jsgotangco gets to save 80MB of space by removing picasa
<lucasvo> I began with a Help and Support page: http://www.edubuntu.org/node/20
<lucasvo> but why can't I make tbales?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
* jsgotangco seems to have stumbled into a website construction site
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: ?
<jsgotangco> you all fixing up the edubuntu site?
<lucasvo> yes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<lucasvo> highvoltage: why can't I make tables?!
<jsgotangco> looks tiny in epi
<highvoltage> lucasvo: have you enabled 'full html' in the input field?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: ah ok
<lucasvo> thanks
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i noticed it in galeon too... we're going to change the way the font sizes are specified in css
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: its actually epiphany's behavior, everything is rendered a font size smaller
<highvoltage> is it? do you think galeon does it the same way?
<highvoltage> (seems like it does)
<jsgotangco> i dunno
<jsgotangco> epi uses gecko
<highvoltage> ogra: is Xubuntu still an unofficial Ubuntu distro?
<lucasvo> lol
<lucasvo> drupal is buggy
<highvoltage> ogra: i mean... may we put it under "Related Projects"? or is that a silbs question?
<lucasvo> in Preview trimmed version it cuts off half of the table 
<lucasvo> so the Full preview is in one cell of the trimmed preview
<highvoltage> heh. i don't think they want you to use tables at all ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, thats a silbs question i can ask on monday
<cbx33> ogra, sorry to bother you again...with a glade question...I've searched high and low across the net
<cbx33> with a button....
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks
<cbx33> clicked(button, data)
<cbx33> is the signal prototype
<cbx33> so in the handler box in glade you put the function name
<cbx33> for example
<cbx33> on_clicked
<cbx33> but if I want to pass back some more information
<cbx33> so that it's like 
<cbx33> on_clicked("2")
<cbx33> but still have the button, data information passed too
<cbx33> how do i do this?
<lucasvo> cbx33, ogra, highvoltage: should I create a link in the menu to this page: http://www.edubuntu.org/node/20
<lucasvo> I want to add a section "How you can help" as well
<ogra> would you call it "Access Denied" ?
<ogra> ;P
<lucasvo> ogra: login
<lucasvo> it's not published
<lucasvo> ogra: try again
<lucasvo> oh
<lucasvo> there's a typo
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> 7me wonders why jelkner still shows up in all our docs
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> there is also a -es channel :)
<lucasvo> ok
<cbx33> and irch is a typo
<jsgotangco> ogra: virus?
* jsgotangco hides
<lucasvo> cbx33: just updated it
<cbx33> lucasvo, mailing <space> list i think would be better
<ogra> jsgotangco, elkner ? 
<ogra> heh
<ogra> also dont forget we have edubuntu-users now
<jsgotangco> oh!
<ogra> +(only -devel is listed)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<cbx33> ogra, is it working now?
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<lucasvo> ogra: is there another one as well?
<ogra> cbx33, no idea i didnt care for it yet, will do so before release, but its switched on and all -devel users are autosubscribed to it ... send a testmail and you will know ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: I have copied it from the wiki page Edubuntu
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> lucasvo, I did that page:p
<cbx33> but didn;t know about it then
<cbx33> it was a rehash of the old one
<cbx33> ogra, does jelkner not handle education anymore ?
<ogra> cbx33, he doesnt do anything ... he only shows up in the meetings from time to time for 10-20 mins ...
<lucasvo> he occasionally comes in and you have to tell him to type sudo ltsp-update-ssh-keys :)
<ogra> i'd really like to see someone more involved responsible for education
<cbx33> ogra, want someone else to take over education contact?
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33, lucasvo, ogra :)
* lucasvo is still being educated
<lucasvo> hi HedgeMage 
* cbx33 is IT manager at a school
<ogra> cbx33, i dont know anyone who could take that 
* Yagisan pretends to be a school
<HedgeMage> lol
<ogra> cbx33, exactly what we dont want there :)
<HedgeMage> ogra: what's involved?
<cbx33> it's pretty tough some days
<cbx33> we do get _A LOT_ of abuse
<ogra> it should be nobody who has big tech skills and he should work as a teacher with edubuntu on a daily base
<ogra> we dont have such a person yet 
<cbx33> heh.....
<Yagisan> cbx33: you poor thing
<cbx33> i have some tech skills
<cbx33> and i do teach edubuntu to the kids
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> but i see what you mean
<ogra> read: a "power user" but no IT manager ;)
<Yagisan> ah, so a MSCE certified chimp
<cbx33> IT manager is my offical title :p
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<cbx33> but I'm pretty much ANYTHING IT
<cbx33> as in support, teaching...though not curriculum
<ogra> someone who can eaasily share the POV of other teachers and isnt too much involved in development
<Yagisan> apologies to MSCE chimps that earned, rather then bought their certs
<cbx33> ogra, is it worth just removing that till we get someone?
<HedgeMage> ogra: if you give me an idea of what we'd need the person to do, I can attempt to recruit from the teachers I know (esp. the ones I'm working on converting to edubuntu as we speak)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i would take that table out
<lucasvo> highvoltage: why?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: ogra will be flooded by people with support questions that should actually go to the -users list
<ogra> HedgeMage, giving a hand with eduapp stuff and "teaching processes" 
<lucasvo> highvoltage: this page has been in the wiki for about a year and ogra didn't compain so far
<lucasvo> :)
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> ogra: I have someone in mind, but she's a *very* new convert (as in I finally got her to try it this week, but she's loving it)
<lucasvo> <p>If you have any questions, comments or enquiries please direct these to:</p> one should change this sentence
<HedgeMage> ogra: third grade public school teacher from Indiana
<ogra> HedgeMage, someone who can write a mail to desperate users like: how i use kvoctrain to effectively teach my students the basics in spanish language
<HedgeMage> not sure if she'd have time, though.
<highvoltage> imho, ogra should be absolute top level support, not first line of support
<jsgotangco> ogra: thought we have 3 wallpapers?
<ogra> jsgotangco, ??
* HedgeMage nods to ogra 
<highvoltage> users should ask on the lists first (to which ogra is subscribed anyway)
<jsgotangco> ogra: what's the package again to dpkg-reconfigure?
<highvoltage> and if he wants to help, then it's up to him. but in peak times, i don't think it's reasonable for ogra to get e-mails about how to change resolution on thin clients, etc
<ogra> HedgeMage, " *very* new convert" but communicative is perfect 
<ogra> HedgeMage, since she'll know the starter probs ;)
<HedgeMage> ogra: I'll ask her in that case... probably won't talk to her until next week, though (this is a big holiday weekend in the US)
<HedgeMage> especially for teachers...
<ogra> jsgotangco, you mean edubuntu-artwork ?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: what do you think of this: <p>If you have any comments or enquiries please direct these to one of the following Edubuntu member. Please do NOT send support requests to these persons, use the <b>mailing list.</b></p> ?
<jsgotangco> ogra: young/default/plain
<highvoltage> lucasvo: that's better at least. in the sense that it doesn't imply first level support
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> HedgeMage, thats fine ... just having someone who is more involved than appearing once a month in the meeting would be desirable
<ogra> jsgotangco, plain has no wallpaper
<HedgeMage> ogra: understood
<ogra> its "plain"
* jsgotangco doesn't see the difference of having 3 themes - they still have the same ff page and gdm
<jsgotangco> just wallpaper
<highvoltage> i think the plain one has a simpler gtk theme as well
<highvoltage> right ogra?
<ogra> jsgotangco, icons ;)
<cbx33> ogra, how can i get the widgets name from the widget object?
<ogra> nope, the gtk theme is the same, but plain doesnt use gartoon
<jsgotangco> yeah
<HedgeMage> anyhow, I'm off to plug away at cookbook stuff... if I'm needed, highlight and/or IM me and I'll notice eventually :)
<ogra> plain is the first attempt to have somnething more suitable for unis or municipalities
<ogra> hmm, i'm Technical General ? 
* ogra wonders if he should put that on his business cards 
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> general electric
<ogra> "edubuntu technical general"
<highvoltage> you'd be good friends :)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> yes sir!
<ogra> i'll tell him if i ever meet him :P
<ogra> (in fact i had several courses at GE some years ago)
<highvoltage> well, my nick is highvoltage, so i can be General Electric :)
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, http://www.edubuntu.org/node/20
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i think you can put it on the menu, we can fine tune ongoing.
<jsgotangco> ahh
<pc22> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day pc22
<highvoltage> cbx33: oh yes, the khangman screenshots...
<highvoltage> cbx33: the first one spelled 'wtf', but it was very subtle. it took long before someone noticed it :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: and then, after that, it spelled 'dbian'
<jsgotangco> is UsingEdubuntu ESA?
<pc22> i wonder if my ubuntu will be infected virus
* Yagisan is somewhat busy with software release < 24hrs away, and if I don't get cracking, there will be no linux release
<highvoltage> cbx33: and now 'edbn'
<Yagisan> pc22: no
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes
<Yagisan> pc22: unless you do some really dumb stuff
<pc22> lol
<Yagisan> pc22: like run the virus as root, manually
* jsgotangco really wants to edit that doc now for grammar 
<pc22> ohh
<cbx33> heheh
<pc22> i have this small windows network
<pc22> i want to test my antivirus so i want to infect it with a virus
<pc22> lol
<jsgotangco> good luck
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i see you have a drupal user, do you have your password?
<ogra> yeah, first find a linux virus :)
<cbx33> pc22, there is a test virus
<Yagisan> pc22: EICAR
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i can add you to the editor group too...
<cbx33> Thanks Yagisan 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i couldn't remember the login page
<highvoltage> there are a few concept virusses
<pc22> whats eicar
<Yagisan> cbx33: no worries. day job stuff
<cbx33> indeed
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's /user/login
<Yagisan> pc22: test virus
<cbx33> thought you'd jump in on that one
<jsgotangco> non-invasive test virus
<highvoltage> but none have actually been reproducable in the wild
<Yagisan> pc22: it's harmless, but it gets detected as a virus
<cbx33> I've used it a few times
<pc22> i want a real harmful virus
<Yagisan> pc22: http://www.eicar.org/anti_virus_test_file.htm
<pc22> yes im checking the file
<ogra> pc22, yopu wont find any harmful viruses for linux
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> for some strange reason, some work on wine though
<Yagisan> pc22:  basically cat "X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*" > eicar.exe
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you're an editor now
<jsgotangco> but that only shows how sophisticated wine is
<Yagisan> ogra: well you can
<pc22> like what can slow down my network or even stop the router from routing. this virus is for my 3 pc windows network
<Yagisan> but they don't do much unless you are root
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i couldn't remember my username!
<ogra> Yagisan, exactly ... so they are pretty pointless in a sudo driven distro 
<pc22> hi ogra
<ogra> (unles you work as root all the time, which is dumb anyway)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i think it's more a case of 'you mimic the behaviour of an insecure system, then you also mimic the insecurities'
<jsgotangco> you might want to key log the sudo user first hthough
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'll PM to you
<ogra> hey pc22 
<Yagisan> ogra: sadley, I also support non-ubuntu distros too
* Yagisan gets back to work
<ogra> Yagisan, sucks to be you ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, convince your customers :)
<pc22> i have 2 linux pc and 3 windows pc
<pc22> i want to try it with a nice harmful virus
<highvoltage> pc22: i have 12 linux pc's just in my room
<pc22> cool
<pygi> spacey, you here? :P
<highvoltage> pc22: and one pc that runs windows ce, which is an ipaq locked away in the garage
<HedgeMage> lol
<jsgotangco> i only have 3
<ogra> highvoltage, why did you lock it away ? because of CE ?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes
<pc22> so anyone can help me check windows viruses for my win network? pls?
<ogra> (you could use familiar linux on it)
<highvoltage> ogra: i don't have a cable it to reflash it with linux
<highvoltage> s/it/yet
<lucasvo> familiar rocks
<highvoltage> i don't think i'm ever going to use it. it's old without any bluetooth or wi-fi.
<highvoltage> one day when i'm rich i'll buy a linux pda :)
<jsgotangco> i have one
<jsgotangco> but im not rich
<lucasvo> linuxpda's aren't better than non linux ones
<pygi> pc22, use clavav throught samba
<ogra> bring it to paris ;) i have a serial cradle
<highvoltage> ogra: oooh!!! will do :)
<lucasvo> in fact they are often worse
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I have flashed mine with usb
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i just want to avoid using any kind of Windows, if at all possible
<cbx33> I want linux on my Dell Axim X3i
<highvoltage> lucasvo: this is still an old ipaq 3600
<lucasvo> oh
<jsgotangco> pfftt puny PDAs could not even compare to my old SL-5500
<ogra> yeah i have the same
<highvoltage> lucasvo: it comes from the era where i still used to use windows. it's *that* old
<lucasvo> I have a hx4700
<ogra> and a 3200
<ogra> (black/white)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: when I was born? ;)
<highvoltage> black and white pda's are quite handy too- nice battery life.
<cbx33> hehehe
<highvoltage> lucasvo: 1980-something?
<lucasvo> no, 1990
<highvoltage> lucasvo: wow, i thought you were older.
<Yagisan> ogra: you may not have noticed it, but I do offer an ubuntu migration service, It's not linked from the Ubuntu homepage, so I can see why you'd miss it.
<jsgotangco> why not have it listed?
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra: about the ubuntu partners thing, can you ask silbs if something similar can be implemented for edubuntu too?
<highvoltage> ogra: (in a sense that we can talk about it on website)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: on my todo list
<ogra> highvoltage, sure
<ogra> good idea
<highvoltage> cool
<HedgeMage> ogra: have you seen Dark Crystal yet? :P
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: I'll get around to it, when my wife heals enough for me to take on more work
<ogra> HedgeMage, the movie ? 
* Yagisan would happily support edubuntu
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: torrent link pls ;)
<highvoltage> tuxlabs would also be interested, since it's going to be a commercial company in about two months
<HedgeMage> ogra: yes, the movie with a character named Ogra :P
<cbx33> w0000t it's working
<jsgotangco> lol
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: haven't seen that movie since I was a kid
<cbx33> thanks for not telling me the answer ogra  - I learnt so much now :D
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: tuxlabs is going commercial?
<ogra> HedgeMage, when i was a teen i saw it in the cinema, but i wouldnt have remembered that :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<HedgeMage> lol
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: TSF only funds a project for 4 years (first phase)
<highvoltage> this is the fourth year of tuxlabs funding
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<highvoltage> so we either have to end it, or find another funder, or make it work commercially.
<cbx33> TSF?
<cbx33> no i got it
<cbx33> nevermind
<highvoltage> there are lots of big government tenders going out now, so commercially is looking like a very sustainable option at this point.
<pygi> spacey, hey
<pygi> may you please add those links? thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: my rsync is taking very long. screenshots from thursday's daily build should be fine for docs, right?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<jsgotangco> should be
<ogra> (apart from the mouse theme)
<cbx33> ogra, I'm trying that VMware install again
<highvoltage> heh, ok.
<ogra> just dont forget to note it at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current if you test isos
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> that table filled will make my job safer :)
<cbx33> ok ogra 
* highvoltage didn't realise ubuntu supported sparc arch
<ogra> so i wont get fired for lack of iso testing :)
<ogra> i doesnt (until thursday)
<Yagisan> ogra: got a spare sparc for us :)
<ogra> dapper is the first release to support sparc on servers
<ogra> servers only, not my area
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it'll be announced
<ogra> but since we work so close with SUN now that might change for edgy ;)
<Yagisan> oh. sounds like a nice desktop ...
* highvoltage sees he has a nice excuse to buy a powerpc
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: are you still editing that wiki page?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: nope
* jsgotangco had to put his kubuntu results
<jsgotangco> This page was opened for editing or last previewed at 2006-05-28 00:51:14 by JonathanCarter.
<jsgotangco> You should refrain from editing this page for at least another 8 minute(s), to avoid editing conflicts.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i accidentally double-clicked on that page, which went into edit mode, didn't edit anything, so it's safe to edit
<jsgotangco> ah
<cbx33> ogra, you know I'll test for you
<cbx33> just give me a bit of notice this time.....i just wasn't aware of it all last time
<cbx33> if you give me a day...I'll test 20 instlals for you
<ogra> from monday on 
<cbx33> ok....
<ogra> until thursday ... as many tests as you can do
<cbx33> well I was gonna work from home on tuesday
<ogra> s/can/like to/
<cbx33> so i can do it then
<cbx33> I'm still testing out that VMWare instlal at the moment
<ogra> try with framebuffer disabled
<cbx33> how do i do that
<cbx33> shall i restart the installation
<ogra> something like debian-installer/frambuffer=false on the boot commandline
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what the iso boot command line?
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> cbx33: it's also mentioned in one of the F2, F3, etc option screens
<jsgotangco> good night
<ogra> night jsgotangco 
<pygi> spacey, ping ping :)
* highvoltage goes back home
* Yagisan marvels at his simple, yet awful hack to fix rules breakage
<Yagisan> just dump "zip -v -0  ./Data/Doomsday.pk3  ./Data/Graphics/* ./Data/Fonts/* ./Data/KeyMaps/*" right before AC_OUTPUT
<Yagisan> and hope they run Ubuntu ;)
<cbx33> ogra, it seems to die on the configuring the python2.4-zopeinterface
<cbx33> hmmm...
<cbx33> but it's gotten past it this time
<cbx33> we could be on to a winner
<ogra> that must be the media
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> ogra, tested, worked, updated page
<ogra> cool !
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ogra, when will the downloads be ready for tuesday's testing
<jono> nick highvoltage2
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> highvoltage, how are we doing with the wiki
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think the wiki isn't doign to bad, but of course still needs some work, i'm looking at it tomorrow, right now my priority are new screenshots for gettingstarted and the screenshots section
<highvoltage> i don't want any breezy screenshots in there by monday
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> yeh true
<cbx33> I'll see if I can do some tomorrow
<highvoltage> cool
<highvoltage> which version of vmware are you using?
<highvoltage> i can boot the edubuntu cd fine with framebuffer.
<cbx33> highvoltage, yeh i just got mine to work now
<cbx33> ogra, you got 5 mins for a python query?
<highvoltage> isn't 5 mins a bit long for a python query?
<highvoltage> :P
<cbx33> highvoltage, I may need him to actually look at my code :p
<cbx33> oh damn
<cbx33> brb
<bersace> highvoltage: hello, how to put the big icon such as in https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork
<bersace> ?
<highvoltage>  /+hackergotchi, iirc
* highvoltage checks
<highvoltage> bersace: yes, add /+edithackergotchi to the end of the team page
<highvoltage> then you can add it
<highvoltage> bersace: who sent you?
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<bersace> highvoltage: thanks
<highvoltage> greetings P3L|C4N0 
<bersace> highvoltage: myself
<highvoltage> bersace: ok. it's just strange, i think i'm the only one who's done that before :)
<highvoltage> thought that you might have asked on another channel and someone sent you here to ask me
<bersace> highvoltage: nop, i just read the line "Owner" fo the edubuntu-artowkr team :)
<bersace> bye
<highvoltage> ah :)
<cbx33> ping Laser_away 
<highvoltage> goodnight!
<crimsun> 'night
<highvoltage> nighto crimsun
<pygi> night crimsun 
<pygi> Bluekuja, poke? :)
<Bluekuja> oi mario
<crimsun> pygi: you meant that to jonathan, of course :-)
<pygi> crimsun, ergh yes :)
<crimsun> it's late afternoon here :-)
<Bluekuja> pygi: i was waiting you in ubuntu-it
<Bluekuja> xD
<pygi> crimsun, 50 minutes before midnight :)
<pygi> Bluekuja, gah :) Rather send me that package :P
<Bluekuja> ah yeah
<pygi> Bluekuja, how does this look like?
<pygi> http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6396/template1gv.png
<cbx33> nn all
<pygi> night cbx33 
<Bluekuja> it's a bittorrent meta file viewer
<pygi> what's a bittorent meta file viewer?
<Bluekuja> you can use it to view .bittorrent files infos before starting the download
<pygi> Bluekuja, no, not that, but What are you talking about? :P
<Bluekuja> lol, i was talking you about the package sorry
<Amaranth> pygi: i think we have a problem
<pygi> Amaranth, like what? :-/
<Amaranth> pygi: my project and another accepted project are basically the same thing
<Amaranth> Safety Boat
* pygi looks
<Amaranth> basically that project is an epiphany extension that works with my project
<Amaranth> or should be
<pygi> Isnt your project willow packaging?
<Amaranth> well, it kind of changed
<Amaranth> because willow isn't usable
<Amaranth> so i have to make my own
<Amaranth> (or heavily modify willow)
<pygi> ah, ok
<pygi> hm ... :-/
<pygi> Amaranth, this is indeed not a good situation :-/
<pygi> Bluekuja, have you looked at that image I gave you?
<Bluekuja> pygi: which image??
<pygi> Amaranth, do you have any suggestions on how to resolve?
<Amaranth> pygi: no idea
<Amaranth> pygi: i don't think my project is a 2 person thing
<pygi> Amaranth, indeed
<Bluekuja> pygi: really nice
<Bluekuja> thats really beatiful
<pygi> Bluekuja, this is still the first version
<Bluekuja> compliments
<pygi> not to me tho, I am not a designer :P
<Bluekuja> lol
<pygi> Bluekuja, see the "Design by ..." :)
<Bluekuja> oh aww
<pygi> Amaranth, I really think we need to think of an idea on how to resolve this
<Bluekuja> i thought you was a design master
<Bluekuja> hehe
<pygi> hehe indeed :)
<Bluekuja> wanna try a rpm-based package too?
<Amaranth> pygi: see if he'll work on something else?
<pygi> Bluekuja, I don't have a rpm system
<pygi> Amaranth, ergh, like what? :-/
<Amaranth> i dunno
<Bluekuja> use alien then
<Bluekuja> just to check
<pygi> ergh, Daniel is probably not here right now...
<pygi> Amaranth, try finding some idea on wiki that would suit him...
<pygi> I'll try...actually, I don't know what I'll try, but I'll think of somethin'...
<Amaranth> i think he should get to choose
<crimsun> (as in Daniel Holbach?)
<crimsun> (too many Daniels)
<pygi> yes, daniel holbach
<pygi> he's supposed to mentor that guy
<crimsun> (my nick highlights on Daniel, too, in case you're wondering)
<pygi> crimsun, yes, I know :)
<pygi> Bluekuja, I have one server RHEL, could try there perhaps
<Amaranth> gtg, moving out of wireless range
<pygi> k, bye Amaranth 
<Bluekuja> pygi: cool, I'm uploading it right now to extras
<Bluekuja> just a moment, I'm re-setting up cvs access
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
#edubuntu 2006-05-28
<Burgundavia> ogra, what is the landscape client?
<bddebian> Howdy
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, you there?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> hang on, let me plug in
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, I under anselmo chatted with you today. He said there might have been some miscommunicatin
<Amaranth> apparently
<Burgundavia> do you understand what he is doing
<Amaranth> because it sounds like his project isn't really needed if i get mine done
<Burgundavia> given, I wrote the original spec...
<Amaranth> where is the spec? the soc website wouldn't let me look at the proposal
<Burgundavia> SafetyBoat is more than just proxying
<Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/ChildrensBrowser
<Burgundavia> that is the original draft
<Amaranth> ah
<Burgundavia> does that make more sense to you now?
<Amaranth> "The Control panel should control the level of filtering (low, medium, high), as well as specific white and black lists." looks odd, otherwise yeah
<Burgundavia> that was just my quick ideas. I never expected to get it picked up
<Burgundavia> actual implementation may differ
<Amaranth> i forgot, i need to ask ogra about my project
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: I was thinking an epiphany and/or firefox extension that can tell the proxy a site is good or bad would be cool
<Burgundavia> an iframe would be better, imho
<Burgundavia> because then people with IE and Safari can control it as well
<Burgundavia> but that might be more work
<Amaranth> that's a bit more complicated, yeah
<Amaranth> and harder to use
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> maybe build your proxy with the ability for someone to plug either in
<Amaranth> yeah, that's what i need to talk to ogra about
<Amaranth> making my own instead of using willow
<Burgundavia> which changes the spec somewhat
<Burgundavia> as you were just going to package and write a gui for willow, no?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> although a part of the packaging would be code review and modifications to make it better for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> yep
<Amaranth> and i might be able to do this with an existing proxy + the reverend module for bayesian filtering
<Burgundavia> code reuse is always nice
<Burgundavia> ie, use dansguardian and plugin reverend?
<Amaranth> maybe
<Amaranth> i was looking for a simpler proxy
<Amaranth> "Before downloading, please read the copyright for DansGuardian 2. DansGuardian is not free for commercial use. DansGuardian may not be used by Military governments such as SPDC in Myanmar (formally known as Burma)."
<Amaranth> that makes dansguardian worthless
<Burgundavia> isn't dg gpl?
<Burgundavia> that is garbage. dg is gpl
<Amaranth> apparently it's GPL + restrictions
<Burgundavia> license in CVS says nothing like that
<Amaranth> i know, only their download page does
<Burgundavia> then someone needs to spank them
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> all the proxy has to do is HTTP 1.1 and HTTPS, right?
<Burgundavia> "This page has been personally inspected by RMS (Richard Stallman) himself (Oct 2001). It had his approval and hopefully still does."
<Amaranth> and HTTP AUTH and such, that's a given
<Burgundavia> ok, the DG author is nuts
<Burgundavia> what about using squid?
<Amaranth> well
<Amaranth> reverend is python
<Amaranth> so unless i want to embed python the proxy would have to be too
<Amaranth> i found a nice list of them
<Amaranth> i've been looking at some of them
<Burgundavia> I love how our company "breaks" his license
<Amaranth> heh
<Burgundavia> we ship DG with every DiscoverStation
<Burgundavia> which we sell for gazillions of dollar
<Burgundavia> s
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> i think mandriva has it in their repos
<Burgundavia> so does debian and ubuntu
<Amaranth> oh?
* Amaranth never looked before
<Amaranth> the author of this thing is full of himself
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/web/dansguardian
<Amaranth> the LICENSE file says GPL
<Burgundavia> that is what I mean
<Amaranth> but the source code says otherwise
<Amaranth> /Please refer to http://dansguardian.org/?page=copyright2
<Amaranth> /for the license for this code.
<Burgundavia> I think debian/etc. ignore that and go with the licesing file
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i wonder if i should email debian-legal
<_Mikael_> hi everybody!
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> hey _Mikael_
<_Mikael_> is my first time in this channerl, a lot of time i dont use irc, snif...
<_Mikael_> im not speak english very well, sorry 
<Burgundavia> I think he would have a hard time with a judge with messy licesning like that
<Burgundavia> _Mikael_, np
<_Mikael_> :)
<Burgundavia> some of us no speeky english too well and that is the only language we speak :)
<_Mikael_> hahaha
<Amaranth> me speak bad english
<Amaranth> :P
<_Mikael_> where are you from?
<Amaranth> usa
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, seriously, I think we might just want to avoid dg
<Burgundavia> Canada
<Amaranth> i just suck at english
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: yeah, it's too weird
<_Mikael_> aahhh, greeting from Chile!
* Burgundavia won't point out what else he sucks at...
<Amaranth> a lot of the time i say something then say "pretend that made sense"
<_Mikael_> hey, one question about edubuntu...
<Burgundavia> _Mikael_, we don't talk about Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> remember, the first rule of Edubuntu...
<_Mikael_> :S
<Burgundavia> _Mikael_, no seriously, shoot :)
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: err, cultural joke
<_Mikael_> xD
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, maybe. a lot of people get it though
<_Mikael_> is edubuntu multilanguage? can i use it for children that just speak spanish?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<_Mikael_> :o
<Burgundavia> 30+ language, I think
<_Mikael_> ok, excellent! :D
<Burgundavia> and you can have mutiple users each using a different language, simultaneously
<_Mikael_> im thinking about a first grade school...
<Amaranth> i think the spanish translations are some of the best, actually
<Amaranth> most complete, i mean
<_Mikael_> then, rigth now i download it! 
<_Mikael_> ;)
<Burgundavia> _Mikael_, there is also #edubuntu-es and #ubuntu-es
<_Mikael_> haha, i didn't that xD
<_Mikael_> i found this channel in the web documentation... :P
<_Mikael_> thx very much!
<_Mikael_> see you ;)
<troy_s> hey folks
<troy_s> anyone here from artwork?
<Burgundavia> troy_s, what do you mean?
<troy_s> Henrik Omma needs a little art... and I know that the Edubuntu folks have an art team...
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Tasks
<Burgundavia> troy_s, why are you not in #ubuntu-ca ?
<troy_s> if anyone can help, thanks.
<Burgundavia> troy_s, #ubuntu-art might be a better choice?
<troy_s> yes it is there too.  but edubuntu has a nice organized art troope.
<troy_s> just trying to share the knowledge.
<Burgundavia> we do?
<troy_s> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork and it is listed at launchpad.
<Burgundavia> yep, but I don't think asking edubuntu people to help the ubuntu website is the best
<troy_s> okie.
<_Mikael_> hey again! i can't find the url where download edubuntu... =(
<_Mikael_> only ship-it
<Burgundavia> hm, the edubuntu page has nothing, you are correct
<_Mikael_> aaahhp, ok
<_Mikael_> then... how i get it? :S
<Burgundavia> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/
<_Mikael_> first i wanna download and test it and then use ship-it
<_Mikael_> ok, thx ;)
<Burgundavia> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/ <-- RC unstable version
<Burgundavia> 5.10 is the current stable, 6.06 is going to be released June 1st-ish
<_Mikael_> :o a secret place =P
<Burgundavia> I emailed the edubuntu mailing list about it
<_Mikael_> mmm, is important...
<_Mikael_> i check all pages before ask you
<Burgundavia> no, if you can't find something, ask
<Burgundavia> it is a bug that shoudl be fixed
<_Mikael_> ok, you are so nice ;)
<Burgundavia> if you can't find something, it is a fair shake you are not alone
<_Mikael_> thx very much, see you again! xD
<Burgundavia> indeed
<jsgotangco> good morning
<Burgundavia> salut jsgAWAY 
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, 
<jsgotangco> gee you're right there's no download link
<jsgotangco> heh!
<jsgotangco> i could fix this its only drupal but i should wait for highvoltage i think
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> ogra: ping!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: you forgot the download link on the website lol
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's there now ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it was there, it was just unpublished. d'oh!
* jsgotangco thinks it should be one big red button
<jsgotangco> (instead of a node)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm going to ping the mailing list to go through everything for spelling mistakes, etc and other things that we might have missed, so that we get this 100% right
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm thinking of putting a banner at the top of the front page or something that announces the new release and download
<jsgotangco> yes that would be great
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: is that big button enough? :)
* jsgotangco refreshes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we'll have to have a documentation section too
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i don't think we can have a big proper one like we want by launch time
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: but it's something i think we should start working on
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: even if it's just layout, etc of the page
<jsgotangco> would you prefer to have it as a static page or a link to the wiki proper?
<jsgotangco> the wiki proper is a bit dodgy in terms of accuracy
<highvoltage> at the moment, there's a link under quick links to the wiki page
<highvoltage> it's not so much inacuracy that bothers me, that's quite fixable
<highvoltage> it's just that users find wiki's scary
<jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com currently has about edubuntu, release notes (ive yet to update it) and ESA
<highvoltage> and i think it would at least be nice to have one 'summary' doc page, that points to the relevant wiki pages
<highvoltage> great. I'm thinking more in terms of someting like: http://help.ubuntu.com/
<highvoltage> perhaps we should link to relevant documentation from the "Help & Support" page?
<highvoltage> i think that will be good
<jsgotangco> well those in doc.ubuntu.com will eventually be moved to help
<jsgotangco> i will liase with mdke upon release
<jsgotangco> i will update the release notes as well
<highvoltage> yep. doc.u.c is for development, and help.u.c is released, right?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<blue-frog> hi folks, I have been using gtranslator to translate missing stuff for schooltool but couldn't find everything I wanted to translate in the/usr/lib/ptython24/site-packages/schooltool/locales/fr/LC_MESSAGES/schooltool.po. Then I found out about rosetta and found that there was more in rosetta than in the po file. If I understan rosetta correctly downloading stuff with rosetta will provide me with a more complete po file?
<highvoltage> blue-frog: i think so
<highvoltage> blue-frog: although i'm not too versed in rosetta. it might be best to ask in #launchpad, though
<cbx33> ogra, what is allowed in LP and what isn't
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi juliux 
<juliux> cbx33, i fly on the 7th june to london
<cbx33> excellent
<juliux> cbx33, we have to drink some beer together
<cbx33> indeed
* juliux have to test the english beer
<lucasvo> Guiness!
<lucasvo> +n
<juliux> pah guiness i can drink also in germany
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> ogra: ping
<highvoltage> ogra: about that e-mail i just sent you. i thought you were responding to Corey :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> cbx33, no idea, ask #launchpad 
<ogra> juliux, try the red beers, they are fairly good, lager is pretty boring if its not at least 30C
<cbx33> ogra, thanks have done so....was wondering if my gisomount would be allowed as a product in it
<ogra> sure, why not
<cbx33> someone said yes, no reason why not
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> I should probably check with Laser_away seeing as we are working on this together
<cbx33> ogra, python is so cool
<cbx33> I'm really getting somewhere now
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: have you had a chance to upload those screenshots?
<cbx33> infact the beta release should be ready....possibly by the end of the day....
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm burning to replace those old breezy screenshots on the screenshots page :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'll do it now for you
<highvoltage> cbx33: thanks :)
<cbx33> I didn't have that laptop with me
<cbx33> but I do now
<cbx33> did you agree with the my idea of sorting it out
<cbx33> where do you want them
<cbx33> just as attachemtns to the screenshots page?
<highvoltage> talking to me?
<cbx33> yes :p
<highvoltage> i think it's best if you put them in a tarball and upload it somewhere
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll do that right away
<highvoltage> thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: do you think we could mention freedom toasters on the download section
<highvoltage> ogra: or do we need permission from silbs? if so, could you please add that to the list of questions for her?
<ogra> i think we can do this right away, i'll take the blame if silbs complains
<ogra> its a valuable project that deserves promotion for our side imho
<highvoltage> ogra: ok :)
<highvoltage> yeah, and Helen King is doing a lot to get it in many other countries too
<cbx33> freedom toaster?
<lucasvo> I would like to have a freedom toaster in zurich
<highvoltage> http://www.freedomtoaster.org.za
<ogra> well, it only makes sense where you dont have bandwith ...
<highvoltage> it's a machine where you can take your blank cd's and burn distro's.
<lucasvo> highvoltage: not only distros
<lucasvo> free data as well
<highvoltage> lucasvo: yes, i know :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: you do realise i work for TSF, don't you ;)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: of course, but cbx33 maybe doesnt
<lucasvo> I just said it so nobody in this channel thinks it's only for distros ;)
<lucasvo> btw, is ubuntu also funded by tsf?
<ogra> does anybody read the ubuntu-art ml here ? 
<lucasvo> no
<ogra> we got a lot of praise for the well structured artwork team ... 
<ogra> well done highvoltage :)
<lucasvo> ogra: edubuntu or ubuntu?
<ogra> edubuntu indeed
<ogra> they dont manage to get themself organized since quite some time and just discovered that the edubuntu-art tea has a clear LP teampage, a very clean wiki presentation etc ...
<highvoltage> lucasvo: no, it's not funded by tsf
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm subscribed to it, but rarely read it
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks :)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: good, otherwise one would have to stop in two years :)
<highvoltage> ogra: not that we have actually produced usable artwork that actually got into edubuntu :(
<ogra> well, but the team is well organized ;P
<highvoltage> hopefull with a bit of armtwisting and some work, the next release will have some more
<highvoltage> i'm lying
<highvoltage> lisa's artwork made it into edubuntu! :)
<highvoltage> and toxictoadz'
<ogra> so add her to the artteam :)
<ogra> we always had community artwork ... thats more than ubuntu can say
<highvoltage> cbx33: would lisa mind being added? does she have a launchpad account yet?
* highvoltage nods
<highvoltage> actually, i'm quite impressed with the amount of willing volunteers we have
<highvoltage> if you look at our launchpad teams, they're all quite big
<cbx33> I can but ask
<highvoltage> i just wish i had more time to help co-ordinate them
<highvoltage> but thanks to cbx33, that's already been much easier lately
<highvoltage> a big goal for the next release is to get our testing team super organised
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'll do what I can
<cbx33> you guys know that
<highvoltage> (i mean, well before the next release)
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm gonna get right on top of that
<highvoltage> cool :)
<cbx33> I was just so super busy with ESA and everything else
<ogra> highvoltage, please coordinated with sfllaw for the testing team, he's doing all ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu testplans
<ogra> -d
<lucasvo> when is the translatoin freeeze?
<ogra> (i wasnt aware of that myself until we had to switch our testing to Testing/Current recently)
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx33> ok ogra I'll scrap what I was doing for that then...no point in doing it twice :p
<highvoltage> i'll add him to the launchpad team too
<ogra> cbx33, he'll be happy if we do it ourselves, but he needs to be made aware of it (which he wasnt)
<cbx33> ok sure
* cbx33 unscraps his mind
<ogra> i'm pretty sure he'll be overworked himself for edgy, note that he is only aboard sinc 4 weeks yet
<ogra> so all we can do ourselves will help reducing his workload
<highvoltage> ogra: are you familiar with LAMS and SIF?
<lucasvo> LAMS is cool
<lucasvo> except it's java :)
<ogra> not in detail, i only know some basics about lams
<lucasvo> but what is SIF?
<highvoltage> http://www.sifinfo.org/
<ogra> but mark is after including it in edubuntu, so i'll have to :)
<highvoltage> also something that sabdfl is likely to fund soon, it will have to be rewritten from scratch though
<highvoltage> (for reasons i can't quite remember)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, which is why i'm bringing it up :)
<highvoltage> ogra: do we know how much space the pacakges takes?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: you are talking about sif or lams?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: sif
<ogra> i think they already work on getting it working with free java
<ogra> (lams)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i don't think sif actually even works in its current state
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm just building up more motivation for a second cd ;)
<ogra> :7
<cbx33> highvoltage, check the artwork team...
<cbx33> right at the top...a new member :p
<ogra> i'm not fond of having a second CD as long as its avoidable ...
<lucasvo> I think a "server" cd would be quite reasonable
<ogra> should always be our last resort ... 
<ogra> we have a server cd
<lucasvo> with ltsp, schooltool, moodle, lams
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean just a repo without installer
<ogra> moodle will never ever be on any of our CDs
<lucasvo> why?
<ogra> because its unsupportable
<ogra> schooltool is some KB big, ltsp as well, whats the purpose of a floppy sized server CD ?
<lucasvo> ogra: and apache? isn't it needed for schooltool?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> schooltool uses parts of zope
<ogra> such a CD would probably be 5M in max thats really not worth having to manage, test and maintain it 
<ogra> (you wouldnt belive how much work that is)
<lucasvo> ok
<ogra> the only usecase i see currently for a second CD is a langpack CD 
<ogra> which you could even update in the middle of a release to have more and more recent translations
<ogra> additionally i think we should have a system for third party people to produce their own add-on CD 
<ogra> but as long as i can avoid it, i'll not vote for a second official CD
<lucasvo> ogra: isn't jigdo something like this?
<ogra> yes, but its nothing a teacher can use out of the box
<ogra> i'd prefer a LP servvice where you can click together a package selection and have a "build" button at the bottom
<ogra> at the end of the build you get a mail with a download link for an iso
<lucasvo> that would be coo
<highvoltage> cbx33: is alias vegas lisa?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> aliasvegas=lisasavage
<cbx33> anagram :D
<highvoltage> heh
<cbx33> just creating her wiki page for her
<highvoltage> ogra: btw, have you seen anagramarama yet? it's packaged in universe, and looks like a great addition for edubuntu (i'm putting it into tuxlabs too)
<cbx33> she said if you ever want her to do anything yet, just email her 
<cbx33> lisa@couzensfamily.co.uk
<highvoltage> cool :)
<cbx33> then she won;t forget
<cbx33> could you send he an email about the seperate characters you asked for she has said
<cbx33> then she won;t forget about it
<highvoltage> she won't mind? i don't want to sound too demanding
<cbx33> no no
<cbx33> she's asked me to ask you
<ogra> what did you ask for ? characters of the edubuntu team ? 
<ogra> like the JaneW one ? 
<cbx33> I'll try to get her into IRC
<highvoltage> ogra: i asked for seperate images of the current characters, so that we can use it in other materials as well
<ogra> ah
<highvoltage> ogra: and yes, i did ask for other real life edubuntu characters too :)
<ogra> hehe
<lucasvo> highvoltage: so in next release we'll have little ogra on our desktop bg's?
<lucasvo> :P
<highvoltage> lucasvo: we just might ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: not that i want to pest you, but how are those screenshots coming along?
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the default username/password for schooltool again?
<ogra> schooltool/manager ?
<ogra> (i tend to forget that, not sure)
<highvoltage> ah, manager/password worked for me
<highvoltage> thanks
<highvoltage> i forgot the manager part
<ogra> can that be added to ESA ?
<highvoltage> absolutely
<highvoltage> hmm... we need some kind of users guide.
<highvoltage> i think esa has shifted a bit from its original goals, but that's not a bad thing.
<highvoltage> sorry i'm just rambling
* highvoltage notices that schooltool's colour scheme fits in nicely with the new edubuntu one
<highvoltage> ogra: ther three theme setups with edubuntu are 'young', 'plain', and ?
<ogra> default
<highvoltage> ah
<lucasvo> on what port is schooltool running by default?
<blue-frog> 7080
<lucasvo> blue-frog: sure?
<blue-frog> yes
<lucasvo> strange
<lucasvo> it's not responding
<blue-frog> localhost:7080
<lucasvo> doesn'twork
<blue-frog> with edubuntu out of the box?
<lucasvo> yes
<blue-frog> something went wrog then
<blue-frog> wrong
<blue-frog> is rosetta the official tool to make translation for schooltool. Have downloaded a po file from rosetta but the formatting have suffured a bit apparently. have to review every instance of the file to me sure everything is ok
<blue-frog> to make*...
<highvoltage> cbx33: don't worry about those screenshots, i just made some mysqlf
<highvoltage> s/mysqlf/myself
<highvoltage> ogra: can you please provide an updated version of http://www.edubuntu.org/images/ltsp_inet.png ?
<cbx33> highvoltage, ok, i've been searching for them....
<cbx33> just realised they were on an hdd that crashed at work the otherday
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> sorry 
<highvoltage> np
<cbx33> and sorry I didn't get your message just now
<cbx33> really relaly sorry.....
<cbx33> :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: i've made it more difficult for you this time: http://www.edubuntu.org/images/tour/khangman.png
<ogra> highvoltage, urgh, you mean with the chalkboard ? 
<ogra> i'd rather not
<ogra> the coloring will look awful i suspect
<cbx33> highvoltage, dapper drake :p
<highvoltage> ogra: well, without edubuntu girl perhaps. and perhaps without mustard background. otherwise, if you're happy with it as it is, then so am I :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes :P
<ogra> highvoltage, i'm fine with it as is ...
<highvoltage> ok cool.
<cbx33> I'll need to re do all those images...
<ogra> why should we hide our edubuntugirl :)
<cbx33> was going to offer to redo any that you need as well
<cbx33> just finished lunch
<highvoltage> cbx33: i've updated most of the screenshots on http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<highvoltage> you could get some there if you want
<cbx33> thank you
<highvoltage> some of them i'll have to re-redo
<cbx33> once again I'm so sorry
<highvoltage> no problem at all
<highvoltage> the OOo ones i didn't have nice docs to use as example content, so i just used anything randomg i could find, i'll update them with more relevant shots some time
<cbx33> I can get those done, with the example content if you like
<highvoltage> ok, it's no biggie though :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll have those by tonight
<cbx33> any others you need?
<cbx33> or would like
<cbx33> i had them for every app
<cbx33> with useful content
<cbx33> bbl
<highvoltage> i would've liked to have three more gnome screenshots
<highvoltage> but can't think of any nice ones
<highvoltage> ogra: you have any ideas?
<ogra> nautilus probably ? 
<ogra> firefox with the default homepage (scaled down a bit) ?
<highvoltage> ok great
<highvoltage> btw, sometimes after a dist-upgrade i get the xubuntu home page, and sometimes after a dist-upgrade i get the edubuntu start page. is that normal if i have both xubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop installed?
<ogra> heh, i guess that depends on the order how the packages were installed ... i'll change the priority
<highvoltage> the d-i installer images doesn't scale down too well :(
<highvoltage> i think i'll just cut the relevant parts out of the screenshots, instead of having the entire screen there, or an ugly scaled down version.
<cbx33> highvoltage, just mail me a list of the shots you need
<cbx33> I'll get them done tonight
<cbx33> WIF
<cbx33> sorry WOF
<cbx33> With Out Fail
<blue-frog> hi folks anyone familiar with schootool mo files?
<blue-frog> I have in /fr/LC_MESSAGES 2 files messages.mo and schootool.mo are they both used by schooltool?
<highvoltage> blue-frog: sorry that i keep pointing you to other places all the time. but perhaps #schooltool can help? sorry, wish I could help you :(
<blue-frog> it's ok as long as I know where to look. ty
<blue-frog> well maybe you can help for po files in general. If I translate a complete po file then compile it in mo file and then find out that there is still some english in the program, I must add reference to what is not translated in the po file by using something like #: /interfaces.py:105
<blue-frog> msgid "Description"
<blue-frog> msgstr "Description"
<blue-frog> the hard part being to find the right reference (here that would be /interfaces.py:105)?
<juliux> ogra, do you know why on edubuntu.de is no content?
<ogra> juliux, ask the owner
<juliux> ogra, ok 
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu people!
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<LaserJock> pong cbx33 
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> what's cookin?
<cbx33> gISOMount :p
<cbx33> heheh
<lucasvo> anybody know a good app to do screen movies?
<ogra> byzanz
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<jsgotangco> istanbul
<ogra> depends which output format you want :)
<highvoltage> yay, just a few short weeks and we'll be edubuntu'ing in paris :)
<ogra> istanbul == ogg, byzanz == gif films
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> pingger :p
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> my new dapper machine is ready for screenshots
<highvoltage> ok computer
<highvoltage> but i told you i got the screenshots! :)
<cbx33> but you said you might want some redone 
<cbx33> with more content
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: actually i still have to get a visa this week ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: me too!
<highvoltage> cbx33: oh yes, I nearly forgot. ok you know what to do then.
<jsgotangco> oh at least i know africans aren't allowed in europe instantly heh
* jsgotangco is not alone then
<cbx33> OOo with example content, any other apps you need?
<highvoltage> cbx33: perhaps just some gnome/nautilus screenshots that look nice, thumbnails should be 200x150
<cbx33> ok you got it
<cbx33> highvoltage, can you confirm tuxtyping is in edubuntu
<cbx33> on my latest install it's not here
<highvoltage> cbx33: hmmm.. i think it has been taken out. ogra can you confirm?
<highvoltage> we can just remove that one then
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> it's interesting what people enter in the 'search' field on the website
<cbx33> indeed it is
<ogra> tuxtype is gone, tuxmath stayed on i386 and ppc
<highvoltage> (usb, thin client, ubuntu cd, parent control, parental filter, divx, configuring built-in webcam, codak, registry, ltsp, hardware, physics electrostatic)
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you want to add a note about tuxmath on amd64
<ogra> wow Amaranth will be famous it seems 
<highvoltage> (download edubuntu, adsl, edubuntu ltsp server, dapper, wireless, virtual machine, authentication, 6.06, wallpaper, fracais, download mirror, sound, local hardware, systi flopi disk, school, ESA)
<cbx33> i think we mentioned doing this before?
<cbx33> oooh ESA
<ogra> parental control in the top four
<highvoltage> ogra: how so?
<highvoltage> ah :)
<highvoltage> (mp3player, programs, screen resolution, live, x windows, gstreatmer, kde, kdewifi, webmin, spanish, fedora, powerpc)
<highvoltage> i'm surprised at how much the search button is being used. that's just some of the search phrases from the last two days!
<ogra> nice
<jsgotangco> where do i see those stats?
<ogra> make statistics :) so we'll know whats wanted for edgy+1
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: go to the admin page, then under the "Filter by message type" dropdown box, choose 'search'
<cbx33> highvoltage, now you see why I kept on saying...the search button is broke :p
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, will do.
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, that was before the site went live though, wasn't big priority for a long time
<cbx33> heheh i know
<cbx33> just kiddin
<cbx33> highvoltage, what res are you using for your full size screen shots?
<cbx33> 1024x768 - and did you use imagemagick
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, 1024x768 and no, i used gimp
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> brb
<jsgotangco> Access denied
<jsgotangco> You are not authorized to access this page.
<cbx33> back
<lucasvo> ogra: what's the file extension for ogg movies?
<jsgotangco> ogg
<ogra> ogg indeed :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, i will create another role for 'log viewers' and add you to that, will let you know, won't be now though
<jsgotangco> np
<cbx33> ogra, where is example content installed to?
<cbx33> if you install from the CD it's in your home dir
<cbx33> but from apt-get it seems to be missing
<jsgotangco> that's a symlink
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> jsgotangco, where is it :S:S
<jsgotangco> do an ls you should be able to see where it goes
<jsgotangco> probably /usr/share/example-content
<cbx33> thanks jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu example content
<jsgotangco> For each desktop application in the default install where it is practical,
<jsgotangco> we provide at least one piece of example content. This is valuable for
<jsgotangco> testing, experimentation and demonstration of Ubuntu (especially the live
<jsgotangco> CD). These examples should be small but meaningful, and easily discoverable.
<jsgotangco> "small"
<jsgotangco> :D
<cbx33> small
<jsgotangco> its so small we couldn't fit it in edubuntu
<cbx33> 19Mb = small?
<cbx33> *pah*
<cbx33> highvoltage, what about scribus
<cbx33> or inkscape?
<highvoltage> cbx33: add it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> tbh highvoltage, looking at it....your content looks even better than the example content
<highvoltage> it's more relevance which i were concerned than how good it looks
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll recreate with example content
<highvoltage> ok, no urgency in that
<cbx33> I'm doing it now
<highvoltage> don't let it keep you from doing other useful stuff :)
<cbx33> at the mo, I'm working o nscreenshots, reformatting my wifes pc and setting up LP for gisomount
<cbx33> and I'm hopefully going to get a chance to do some more wiki work too
<cbx33> ogra, did you say we are keeping all LTSP docs back
<ogra> ast least keep them editable in the old place
<ogra> the docteam is free to copy them over, but i object on removals
<ogra> s/on/to/ ?
<cbx33> ok good
<cbx33> ogra, just outta interest : https://launchpad.net/products/gisomount
<highvoltage> cbx33: you writing that?
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> cool idea.
<cbx33> it's in beta at the mo...beta meaning it does actually work
<cbx33> just a few issues to iron out
<cbx33> I'll package up into a tarball soon
<highvoltage> aaah, is that what beta means.
<highvoltage> :p
<cbx33> yeh alpha is ...don;t even both trying...all we have written is the first sentence - or build the gui in glade
<cbx33> beta means it works...but you might not like it
* ogra looks for the bzr branch in LP :p
<cbx33> you need to create some dirs at the moment
<cbx33> /mnt/vcd1 through to vcd5
<cbx33> when i package it that will be taken care of
<ogra> uuh, please not in /mnt
<cbx33>  /media/
<ogra> the usual place to mount removable stuff is /media
<ogra> right
* cbx33 files another bug
* highvoltage thinks users would like /media/cdrom
<cbx33> highvoltage, how about
<cbx33> vcdrom
<cbx33> iwant to tie it in, so as soon as you've mounted, it loads nautilus
<cbx33> but for people who don;t have it I don;t know how to handle it
<highvoltage> cbx33: sounds good. i don't know how ubuntu-legal that is though
<cbx33> at the moment, it's not part of ubuntu
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I can always changed it later
<cbx33> so /media/vcdrom1-5
<ogra> i'd read the label and use that as mounpoint name :)
<cbx33> hmmm
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you have to run this program with sudo?
<cbx33> that's too clever for me yet
<cbx33> highvoltage, yes
<cbx33> as it mounts
<cbx33> and i can't make sure people want/have setuid
<cbx33> ogra, I'll file that as a wishlist bug
<cbx33> unless you want to
<ogra> suid ? what for ? 
<cbx33> ogra, have noticed what could be a bug - I installed edubuntu from the CD last week, on tues.......did an upgrade today, and either oodraw icon was never there, or it has been lost
<cbx33> ogra, mounting
<ogra> use pmount ;)
<ogra> right, its missing for me in my new install as well ...
<cbx33> oh bloody eck - now you tell me
<ogra> damned
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
* cbx33 files another bug
<ogra> i'd like to know first if its missing in ubuntu as well
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i'm afraid I can't check that at the moment
<ogra> cbx33, its there in alacarte
<ogra> <doko_> ogra: yes, requested by the menu cabal
<ogra> so its not a bug :/
<ogra> even though i'd see it as one
<cbx33> I'd say that's a bug
<spacey> whats the menu cabal?
<ogra> menu simplification spec
<spacey> ah
<ogra> from montreal
<cbx33> it should have stayed in the office set of icons
<ogra> nope it should be in the graphics menu
<ogra> imho
<cbx33> ^^^ imho too :p
<cbx33> but i think it needs to be in the menu set......if a package that big is installed - the menu should be visible
<cbx33> </rant>
<ogra> well, not much i can do about it two days before we roll the final iso
<spacey> i guess it is not a heavily used application
<cbx33> ogra, no
<cbx33> it's a recent change
<highvoltage> ogra: what is the menu cabal?
<ogra> well, we dont ship inkscape, so its the only vecor drawing app we have 
<ogra> so imho it should be visible by default as one ...
<cbx33> I'm really sorry for not spotting that on sooner
<ogra> *vector
<cbx33> ogra, I can't use pmount
<cbx33> unless you want to rewrite it....
<cbx33> no support for loop devices
<ogra> not with sudo, no
<ogra> oh
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> i'll have to stick to mount for now
<ogra> highvoltage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited
* highvoltage looks
<ogra> #
<ogra> OpenOffice from Template [Done] 
<ogra>     *
<ogra>       - hide, can be accessed from within OO
<cbx33> math has gone too
<ogra> yep
* cbx33 never found math easy to use
<cbx33> infact
<cbx33> there were some sever font isues last time i tried it
<cbx33> highvoltage, think we need firefox screenshots too?
<highvoltage> i don't think it's really edubuntu specific though
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> the screenshots page mostly show off things that's specific to edubuntu
<highvoltage> ogra suggested a firefox window unmaximised, showing the default page, which we can add to the gnome desktop section
<ogra> you wnated stuff to fill the page :)
<highvoltage> well, i just wondered if there's any gnome coolness that we need to show off
<cbx33> gisomount - 
<highvoltage> but the two different wallpapers already looks nice there :)
<cbx33> oh damn it's not in there yet :p
<highvoltage> ogra: have you seen? http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<ogra> cool
<blue-frog> how do I get another login screen on the ltsp workstation? the white one is nice but no language choice?
<ogra> blue-frog, not implemented yet
<blue-frog> ah
<blue-frog> how do i make the workstations use a langauge instead of another then?
<highvoltage> ogra: is it possible to login with a passwordless user in LDM (assuming PAM is correctly set up for this)?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> thats all on the list for edgy (if we even keep ldm)
<highvoltage> ogra: is that a nope to blue-frog, or me?
<ogra> to you
<highvoltage> ogra: are you hinting that gdm might have ssh login capability? that would be rockin'
<ogra> blue-frog, do it in the user session
<ogra> highvoltage, it already has, was just introduced one or two weeks ago
<ogra> so it was to late for me to even think about it ...
<highvoltage> oh wow, that's great!
* highvoltage loves gdm
<highvoltage> pity they couldn't have done that 6 months ago
<ogra> well, i'm still pretty sceptical
<highvoltage> is it still buggy? or are you sceptical that they've actually made it work?
<ogra> unless they solve the language and session selection prob for us i dosnt see any advantage beyond ldm
<blue-frog> ogra need help don't see any menu to change on the fly session language
<ogra> gdm is way bigger than ldm so i'd prefer to keep and enhance it unless gdm gains us anything beyond its functionallity
<highvoltage> if ldm had slightly better theming, and the session and language buttons, then it would be great
<ogra> yes
<ogra> themeing will improve 
<blue-frog> in breezy we used to have session and language buttons, didn't we?
<ogra> session and language are a ssh probelm ...
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> and i'd like passwordless login capability too :)
<ogra> there was a menu in ldm but that was nonfunctional (and mdz didnt allow me to take it out)
<ogra> highvoltage, indeed
<ogra> thats on my list already
<highvoltage> since it's on your list, may i make another suggestion?
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> what i've been wanting to hack in gdm for the longest time for tuxlabs, is to create a 'Guest Login' button on the login screen
<highvoltage> which creates a random user and logs you in, and when you log out, the account is deleted
<highvoltage> sometimes people do weird things in our current guest accounts, and when other people log in later
<highvoltage> the panels have been moved around and languages has changed, etc and then the guest user is confused
<ogra> hmm, afaik we'll get an app to reset user accopunts from SoC
<highvoltage> that we have from K12-LTSP too (the reset accounts script)
<highvoltage> or does the SoC app have more features?
<ogra> no idea, i just saw it on the proposals page
<blue-frog> ogra ok ty the language stuff works for users to log in with all the same language but then you're telling me that one user ca't decide to have an italian session while the other are in french, correct?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> you can try setting it via gdm on the server (i never tried that)
<ogra> (per user)
<ogra> as a workaround
<blue-frog> well th's a no for me even though I will have a look... teachers am gonna see soon hopefully won't make it that far
<ogra> i think it writes that stuff into ~/.dmrc, gnome will respect that
<blue-frog> i'll do it for my personnal knowledge thouhg
<ogra> blue-frog, create a ~/.dmrc for the users and add: 
<ogra> [Desktop] 
<ogra> Session=default
<ogra> Language=it_IT.UTF-8
<ogra> for italian for example
<ogra> (indeed the language pack for that locale must be installed)
<blue-frog> ok ty I have to think about a simple button (K12 is gonna help) for the teacher to push this to pupil's folder
<blue-frog> I do believe that they all will use the same language per courses but just in case..
<ogra> the prob is that i cant get the list of supported languages easily from the server *before* the user logged in
<ogra> same for sessions
<blue-frog> not a problem
<ogra> it is :)
<ogra> and i'd like to have it solved in edgy
<blue-frog> I decide what languages are on the server and what languages I put in ~/.dmrc
<ogra> ldm aready has the complete code for language and session selection including gui pieces and all
<ogra> its just that i cant get the info what should be in the selection
<blue-frog> sad
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i have no idea yet how to check that with only ssh in a non hackish way
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<blue-frog> anyway am just thinking that gcompris language can be changed from within a session so this solves my immediate problem
<ogra> true
<Yagisan> blue-frog: ogras workaround re setting it via gdm didn't work for me.
<ogra> Yagisan, you have the necessary language-support-* package installed ? 
<blue-frog> ok ty anyway that would have been to much a hassle for "my" teachers, i would setup ltps server myself from a normal ubuntu to have "normal" gdm login screen..
<Yagisan> ogra: of course.
<highvoltage> cbx33: you here?
<Yagisan> ogra: I'll give it another go later, as we have had some updates since then
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> just png crushing those images and they are done
<blue-frog> oh highvoltage you're john carter, right?
<highvoltage> blue-frog: nope
<highvoltage> blue-frog: not john
<blue-frog> ah sry then.
<ogra> but neraly
<blue-frog> sry am lazy
<highvoltage> blue-frog: http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/jonathan.pdf
<blue-frog> on typing tonight
<highvoltage> hehe. ok.
<blue-frog> just seen a small glitch on getting started page fro edubuntu
<highvoltage> please point out :)
<blue-frog> you write gksudo "gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf"  but the picture is about gksudo lts.conf
<ogra> ooooohhhh
* ogra got the first edubuntu-users subscription notice
<highvoltage> aaah
<highvoltage> ogra: really? i subsribed like, 5 minutes after the list was created!
<highvoltage> blue-frog: thanks, i'll get that fixed
<ogra> highvoltage, oh, you didnt use the shots from the edubuntu-docs package ? 
<ogra> highvoltage, you are subscribed already 
<blue-frog> and eventually if you can add that from where you can get a default lts.conf file (e.g /opt/ltsp/usr/share..
<ogra> as everybody from -devel is
<highvoltage> ooh, no. but i'll do so for that shot
<highvoltage> ogra: aah
<highvoltage> blue-frog: that's a great suggestion, i'll add to the todo list
<highvoltage> ogra: the top sites that refered people to edubuntu.org today is:
<highvoltage> 699 hits: http://www.ubuntu.com/
<highvoltage> 210 hits http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/images-crushed.tar.gz
<cbx33> highvoltage, there ya go
<cbx33> bbl
<highvoltage> 93 hits: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?di...
<ogra> haha
<highvoltage> cbx33: cool, thanks
<ogra> 93 hits, really ? 
<highvoltage> yep. just today.
<ogra> nice !
<highvoltage> from distrowatch. i think that's quit cool!
<highvoltage> yeah!
<blue-frog> am doomed with sound...
<highvoltage> down the line there's even an: 42 hits: http://www.xubuntu.org/
<ogra> thats vaused by the ltsp announcement i guess
<ogra> *caused
<highvoltage> and a measly 12 from google!
<blue-frog> have activated the sounds thru lts.conf BUT gcompris play the sounds on th server not the client :(
* highvoltage is quite surprised by that
<highvoltage> we probably need some search engine optimisation in that case
<highvoltage> or perhaps all the new pages aren't properly indexed yet
<highvoltage> blue-frog: hmmm. does your system sounds play through the pc?
<blue-frog> system sound ok on the client
<blue-frog> not gcompris
<ogra> blue-frog, try running: esddsp gcompris
<blue-frog> still the same, on the server
<highvoltage> the homepage got 2666 hits today
<highvoltage> and the screenshot page 721 (which might have been 50% me :) )
<ogra> blue-frog, esddsp -s $ESPEAKER gcompris
<highvoltage> faq had 227 and and downloads 221
<ogra> ?
<blue-frog> same
<ogra> strange
<blue-frog> ah one idea
<ogra> man gcompris ;)
<cbx33> highvoltage, hehehe
<ogra> gcompris --espeaker=$ESPEAKER
<cbx33> highvoltage, have you enabled stats on tha page tehn?
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> you're looking at referers
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> cbx33: btw, can you do me and mdke a favour on the edubuntu wiki pages when you edit them?
<cbx33> sure
<highvoltage> cbx33: could you please add "CategoryDocumentation" to all the edubuntu doc pages?
<blue-frog> have used lts.conf from /opt/ltsp/usr/.... and used it as it is just adding sound=true to the default server stuff (the second one)
<cbx33> highvoltage, is this fo the move?
<blue-frog> ogra still a non for gcompris :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> cos ogra said he didn't wanna move yet....unless something has changed
<ogra> blue-frog, thats ok, even though you shouldnt use the example file
<cbx33> I'm in a state of flux
<cbx33> ogra, what am i doing here?
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, i think i missed that
<ogra> blue-frog, if you have the system sounds coming out of the client, the prob is in gcompris
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the objection against moving to ubuntu docspace?
<cbx33> hte line i got was, we will move when the docs are not WIP
<blue-frog> yes i thought so indeed
<ogra> highvoltage, hmm, we talked several times about it
<cbx33> i think it's in the meeting minutes :p
<ogra> highvoltage, editability
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> i thought the new wiki will be editable too?
* highvoltage asks mdke
<ogra> highvoltage, but Burgundavia told me they will still be editable through the new wiki
<ogra> i just dont understand the purpose of the edubuntu wiki then 
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, but i'm having trouble understanding you :(
<highvoltage> ogra: your main objection is editibility, but it will be editible?
<ogra> highvoltage, initially it sounded like they want everything on help.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> ah, i see what you mean.
<ogra> which would have meaned that people can only change stuff to SVN
<highvoltage> yuck
<ogra> so i objected heavily
<ogra> but they want to open another *sigh* wiki where they pull the doc stuff from 
<highvoltage> mdke confirmed the new docspace will be in an editible wiki
<ogra> but then i dont understand why we should still have the edubuntu wiki
<highvoltage> yeah. a doc-specific wiki, it seems
<highvoltage> it is a bit strange, i must admit
<ogra> and since many of our docs are still in flux i'm not happy about the ide to move them
<ogra> so i'd like to keep the stuff where it is for now
* Yagisan could care less about the wikis now, after bad experiences
<ogra> we can still move
<highvoltage> the problem i can see with leaving them is, that they're going to be the only 'documentation' left on the wiki, since pretty much everything else is going to move
<ogra> well, what will be left then ? 
<cbx33> exactly
<ogra> some laptop testing pages 
<highvoltage> ogra: old specificatoins and user pages :)
<highvoltage> (according to mdke)
<ogra> and ugly tabled pages and lists where people coordinated work through the wiki
<highvoltage> yep
<ogra> additionally it fregments everything
<ogra> i'm not happy about it
<highvoltage> absolutely
<highvoltage> that's the biggest bad thing about it
<highvoltage> which is why i want all our stable documentation in the website, so that a user knows he can search there and find what he wants
<highvoltage> instead of having to search through three different sites
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but we have a *lot* of unfinished stuff 
<highvoltage> yeah. i feel better about documentation in this release than the last one though.
<cbx33> so what do we do
<ogra> yep thats true you guys improved it a lot
<ogra> not to say you all ROCK :)
<cbx33> so we don;t rock ?? :(
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 pokes ogra with a stick
<highvoltage> cbx33: well, perhaps just not yet ;)
<ogra> you do
* cbx33 works on his rocking skills
* highvoltage puts on new red hot chilli peppers cd
* ogra pokes his english grammar regions of his brain
<cbx33> highvoltage, oooooh
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, this new wiki will have the same editing rules as the current one, it will just be exclusively about docs
* Yagisan rolls a new software release, and .debs before gentoo
<cbx33> Burgundavia, who's going to police this.....
* cbx33 checks the edubuntu wiki front page
<Burgundavia> cbx33, the doc team
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> Burgundavia, and how do you avoind that people still write docs on the old wiki ? 
<Burgundavia> ogra, we LART them and then move the docs over
* cbx33 I suppose I'll have to alert them
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: how will users know where to search for docs, and how will they do it. will the search button on the main wiki search through doc pages too?
<cbx33> all good points
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, no, but it will be very clear there are no end user docs on the main wiki
* cbx33 wonders if we need to make an official meeting?
<cbx33> to discuss doc transition?
<highvoltage> cbx33: as soon as you call it an official meeting, then it lasts too long and no conclusions are reached ;)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, why do the edubuntu people not simply move everything to drupal?
<cbx33> but we get to write about the pointlessness in minutes :p
<cbx33> Burgundavia, I thought of that
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: we'll be doing that for the stable docs
<cbx33> but then
<cbx33> there is the editability issue
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: mdke wants us to have everythin in the move too
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: but that causes duplication and more maintenance
<Burgundavia> how the edubuntu team wants to solve the duplication issue is really up to you guys
<Burgundavia> I favour getting off the wiki entirely, if you are putting stable docs somewhere else
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: so the unstable docs can move over, ogra had some objections previously regarding editibility, but since the new wiki will be editible, ogra is fine with the move
<blue-frog> to change subject very quickly. Does any of you have a webcam which works with dapper? if yes please give me it's reference.
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: so unfinished docs move along with CategoryDocumentation, and then later on we'll move it off there (if necassary)
<cbx33> to where ?
* cbx33 is getting in a spin
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<highvoltage> cbx33: to drupal
<cbx33> ahh right
<cbx33> what we need is an svn drupal plugin
<cbx33> so that the svn docs can stay up to date ;)
<cbx33> and still be upto date on the site
<cbx33> i suppose there shouldn;t be a lot of changes though
<cbx33> however we will need somene to be in charge of drupal doc updates so they don't get lost
<cbx33> imho
<highvoltage> stable docs will really just need to change with new releases
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think that would be jsgAWAY for now. but can change later on.
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> just thinking ahead
<highvoltage> goodnigh ogra, cbx33 and blue-frog 
<cbx33> nn highvoltage 
<highvoltage> may the force be with you.
<cbx33> were thos ss ok?
<blue-frog> bye
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm downloading them tomorrow morning
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> lemme know
<cbx33> tomorrow is bank holiday here :D
<thom_> is there something I can do for safe child internet surfing?
<blue-frog> install squid
<thom_> or can i allow only certain sites somehow?
<cbx33> thom_, censornet is great
<cbx33> but you have to intall it on a seperate machine
<cbx33> but it has really good fine grain controls
<cbx33> you can even limit bacdwidth
<Burgundavia> thom_, we are in the process of developing two tools that will help you, if you also want to help in development of those
<thom_> i have a few computers sharing internet at home
<cbx33> Burgundavia, indeed that was going to be my next point
<cbx33> :p
<thom_> thanks
<thom_> Burgundavia: where can i find out about these new tools?
<Burgundavia> thom_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnselmoApplicationSoC2006 <-- this is a new browser for child-safe surfing
<ogra> thom_, currently you have only the options of squidguard and dansguardian
<Burgundavia> the other piece is going to be a content filter that the above will plug into
<thom_> ok, i have heard of the latter
<Burgundavia> ogra, the dans guardian developer is mad
<ogra> thom_, but for edgy we have someone working on a easy solution for content filtering
<ogra> Burgundavia, dansguardian is mad
<Burgundavia> ogra, tools follows developer, no?
<thom_> ok, im also a teacher, will be for 5th grade again maybe, thanks
<Burgundavia> thom_, dansguardian is CIPA compliant
<ogra> Burgundavia, hmm, so lets see how insane amaranth is :)
* Burgundavia hates CIPA with a passion
<Burgundavia> heh
<cbx33> thom_, if you have a spare machine, for now till the tools are ready censornet is excellent free software
<thom_> the waldorf shcool here has some new computers and no OS, im trying to get them interested in Linux
<thom_> but its lots of work
<ogra> thom_, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
<Burgundavia> ogra, you know, our release schedule sucks for schools
<ogra> thats what we'll get (hopefully) with a nice gtk and web gui for management
<thom_> great, im going to look into all of this
<Burgundavia> ogra, has Amaranth talked to you about the issue he has had with willow?
<ogra> Burgundavia, not at all :) they will get stable software even with stuff in -updates and -security :)
<ogra> Burgundavia, he didnt talk to me at all yet
<Burgundavia> ogra, basically Willow is a mess
<ogra> and i'm very short of time until thursday
<Burgundavia> license is a mess, code is a mess, etc.
<ogra> well
<ogra> i'm not opposed if he starts a rewrite, not even if it goes beyond SoC
<Burgundavia> that is what he was thinking
<ogra> as long as he delivers good work in the SoC time i wont step in the way
<Burgundavia> basically the license is the big issue, because if you read strictly, only one file is under the gpl, the others are not clear
<ogra> and if you dont read strictly ? 
<Burgundavia> still pretty unclear
<Burgundavia> he ships the gpl but doesn't say what it applies to
<Burgundavia> s/he/the willow developer
<ogra> yep
<thom_> i saw pclinuxos has a child safe version, but its not gpl either
<Burgundavia> plus Amaranth says the code is a mess
<Burgundavia> he pinged the author but has not heard back (as of a few days ago)
<ogra> thom_, if we want to ship it on the CD it must be easily maintainable (which excludes dansguardian and squidguard) and free indeed
<thom_> oh.
<ogra> Burgundavia, ok, i'll jump in on that after friday
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> Amaranth is quite keen to chat with you about it
<ogra> i'm just to busy with release stuff atm
<thom_> well maybe its simpler for me, i am only going to allow a few web sites
<Burgundavia> we may also be able to get Anselmo to write your pygtk gui for us
<Burgundavia> ogra, do you have any idea what this landscape-client is?
<ogra> Burgundavia, confident 
<Burgundavia> confidental, you mean?
<ogra> Burgundavia, not sure i'm allowed to talk about it 
<ogra> yes
<ogra> so i wont unless i know for sure
<Burgundavia> hmm, where is JaneW when we need her :)
<ogra> but apt-cache show landscape-client ;)
<Burgundavia> she leaks like a sieve
<ogra> Burgundavia, resigned
<Burgundavia> I know, very sad :(
<ogra> yep
<ogra> now i'm alone with edubuntu
* Burgundavia hugs ogra 
<Yagisan> ??
<ogra> but i hope that'll change again
<Burgundavia> what sort of person are you looking for?
<Burgundavia> ie, is it something I could apply for?
<ogra> Burgundavia, there were roumors i could get a developer and i hope there will also a JaneW replacement
<ogra> but i have no concrete info at all yet
<ogra> so we'll see 
<ogra> s/also/also be/
<AliasVegas> hi
<ogra> hey lisa \o/
<ogra> our lead artworker is here !! :)
<AliasVegas> hi ogra :)
<blue-frog> could i have the path to download dapper-desktop-i386 (cd and dvd), pls? must admit am a bit lost right now at the cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage directory
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<blue-frog> sry ogra not edu just ubuntu
<ogra> oh -desktop-i386 ? so you want ubuntu ? 
<blue-frog> got edubuntu in both dvd and cd already :)
<lucasvo> is there a good command line cd burning programm?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<cbx33> heheh told you I'd get her in here.... :p
<blue-frog> yes ogra going to swith my breezy to dapper
<ogra> cbx33, cool :)
<lucasvo> last update broke my system :(
<cbx33> unfortunately AliasVegas is suffering from the flu
<cbx33> so I'm going to put her to bed....
<ogra> AliasVegas, get well soon, and come back here :)
<AliasVegas> *cough* *cough*
<lucasvo> AliasVegas: good night!
<AliasVegas> thanks ogra :)
<AliasVegas> night lucasvo 
* lucasvo would also like to be a edubuntu kid on hte wallpaper :)
<AliasVegas> send us a pic :p all is possible :p
<blue-frog> ty ogra
<blue-frog> fols do you use bazaar?
<blue-frog> folks*
* cbx33 can't wait to see the edubuntu gang, homie-fied :p
* cbx33 can't wait to see the edubuntu gang, homie-fied :p
<ogra> blue-frog, sure, else canonical would fire me :)
<blue-frog> well just making sure :)
<lucasvo> lol
<blue-frog> going to apply for the job i saw on ubuntu employment page
<cbx333> blue-frog, which one ?
<blue-frog> community advocate for bazaar
<blue-frog> it's kind of perfect forme. have always considered myself as the missing link between devs and users
<cbx333> bbl guys
<ogra> ciao cbx333
<cbx333> I'll be back soon
<blue-frog> would have liked to see same job for edubuntu but well can't win them all :)
<cbx333> blue-frog, indeed
<Burgundavia> blue-frog, I think something like that is coming
<Burgundavia> in which case, you had better get in line behind me :)
<ogra> well, not a community advocate i think
<ogra> rather a development manager 
<blue-frog> ah dev manager no can't do am afraid if dev skills are required
<ogra> JaneW had no dev skills either
<blue-frog> ah
<ogra> its rather about the link between me and the management
<ogra> and edu app knowledge
<blue-frog> hum interesting but still i prefer the link between devs and users
<ogra> kicking my ass and reporting about that to the management would be the job description ;)
<blue-frog> worked before for a company creating server communication software, had to do the manuals in french and english so that they could be understandable for the common ppl
<blue-frog> had fun with it, lts of travel as well to install the soft
<blue-frog> ogra following your description, definitely not my scene :)
* cbx333 may apply :p
<cbx333> :p
<cbx333> then i fear it would be ogra kicking cbx333's ass
<ogra> heh
<cbx333> bbl
<blue-frog> ogra rsync to cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/dapper-desktop-i386.iso gives me @error unknown module daily-live ?
<divansantana> Hello Everyone!!
<ogra> blue-frog,  cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-...
<Burgundavia> 'ello divansantana 
<divansantana> With Edubuntu 5.10 can you dist-upgrade to Edubuntu Dapper without breaking ltsp?
<blue-frog> ty
<ogra> divansantana, yes, but i'd suggest recreating the ltsp chroot
<divansantana> Hi Ogra! :)
<divansantana> How do I do that?
<ogra> divansantana, wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<ogra> ;)
<divansantana> ltsp-build-client ?
<ogra> yep, see the wikipage
<divansantana> wow! Kewl, thanks, will check it out.
<ogra> if you just upgrade you'll miss some speedup patches that can only apply during client chroot buildtime
<divansantana> That wiki should tell me everything?
<divansantana> Cause I would like sounds and local devices,&speedup to work hopefully
<divansantana> LTSP really rocks in Kubuntu(thats what im using).
<ogra> divansantana, for the normal server upgarde just follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
<ogra> no local devices this release
<ogra> but sound
<divansantana> I have a Big Courier company using it internally on 100 users one server
<ogra> and themed login manager
<divansantana> Sound, yes? Local devices, no? 
<ogra> yep
<divansantana> Will thats better :) Login Manager would be welcomed!
<ogra> we have the ltspfs and ltspfsd packages in universe
<divansantana> Think users are going to be so happy
<divansantana> what is that?
<ogra> so you can pick the scripts from ltsp.org and make it work, but its not included by default yet
<ogra> ltspfs is the base of all local device support 
<divansantana> kewl, will try it, would it cause problems??
<divansantana> Free software rocks because users get affected by upgrades in a possitive way frequently!
<ogra> no idea, i have only recently upgraded the packages with the ubuntu fixes from ltsp.org
<ogra> so it might cause probs, not sure
<divansantana> This Muekow project is looking good! Wonder if LTSP is going to move that way...
<divansantana> Will give it a try thats a mill!
<ogra> but its the same version you'd get if you compile the ltsp.org stuff
<ogra> :)
<divansantana> I like Muekow more.
<divansantana> Kewl keep well! Ciao!
<ogra> yeah, but we're slower implementing stuff
<ogra> ciao ! :)
<divansantana> for now, i suppose... anyways "see you soon..."
<blue-frog> ogra am going to install "normal" ltsp on "normal" ubuntu to see if i have same problem with gcompris sound. so i will be able to fill in proper bug report
<ogra> i doubt you'll find anything different in ubuntu :) but go ahead
<blue-frog> disconnected *@)!?\  well night all
<ogra> night
<Yagisan> ogra: could I trouble you to toss something though a dapper powerpc pbuilder for me
<ogra> Yagisan, can you mail it please, i'm about to go to bed
<Yagisan> ogra: sure. ogra @ ubuntu.com ?
<ogra> yep
<cbx333> ping Yagisan  - pm :p
<Yagisan> ogra: thanks. will email you a bit later
<Yagisan> cbx333: yep. I'm about to step out
<Yagisan> cbx333: I have stepped out. will be back later
<cbx333> ok
#edubuntu 2007-05-21
* LaserJock decides he isn't a very good icon artist
<moquist> ajmitch: how ready for testing or production is your auth tool? what if we just wanted it for configuring LDAP clients?
<ajmitch> depends on what you need configured for ldap
<ajmitch> eg it's missing bits to tweak ldap config for ssl/tls, etc
<moquist> no ssl/tls
<ajmitch> for basic stuff it should work well enough
<moquist> just PAM, libpam-ldap, and libnss-ldap
<moquist> cool
<moquist> how is it for winbind?
<ajmitch> it should work for most cases, afaict
<ajmitch> except for bits like joining the domain properly can be a bit strange
<moquist> heh...isn't that the normal case? :)
<ajmitch> yeah
* moquist chuckles
<ajmitch> you need this for feisty or gutsy?
<moquist> I'd like to be able to use it on feisty, but the above two cases are the *only* cases we're concerned about.
<ajmitch> and you need this yesterday? :)
<moquist> I hate when big decisions come down to niggling details like these, but I'm prepping for an upcoming discussion on K12LTSP v. Edubuntu, and I want to be able to communicate the full picture well to my colleagues.
<moquist> ajmitch: Nah. Next month or two, and I totally don't care if it's an unreleased dev/testing version, as long as I have a .deb that I can install that works for the above cases.
* ajmitch has a couple of things to upload tonight, and will get onto rolling a new package
<ajmitch> that much is fine
<moquist> ajmitch: and I'm more than happy to help test as I'm able.
<ajmitch> excellent, willing victims
<moquist> ajmitch: Cool - I'm not *at all* trying to be demanding. I was just asking about the current status of the project. :)
<ajmitch> don't worry, it doesn't get nearly enough love as it is
* moquist understands
<moquist> ajmitch: is there somewhere I should watch for the updated package, so I know when to grab it?
<ajmitch> well I can try & put it into feisty-backports as 'authtool'
<ball> Is there a "live cd" of edubuntu?
<ball> hello Sleepy_Coder
<Sleepy_Coder> Hello ball.
<moquist> ball: Yes. "Edubuntu 7.04 Desktop CD" http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<moquist> ball: It's not an LTSP server, though.
<ball> That's okay, I don't have any X terminals laying around at present anyway.
<moquist> Burgundavia: you still around?
<ball> Well, looks like this download will take about two hours.
<ball> thanks for the pointer moquist.
<moquist> ball: np
* encompass sits on the ball
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<jsgotangco> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6675833.stm
<jsgotangco> heh!
<willvdl> "Yes people laugh at it, then they criticise it, then they copy it."
<willvdl> too true
<jsgotangco> yeah
<willvdl> jsgotangco, problem is...the classmate does rule
<Kamping_Kaiser> rule meaning? :)
<willvdl> sorry, "Rule" :)
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, woot
<ogra-classmate> hez hez
<ogra-classmate> oops
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<ogra-classmate> hey hey indeed
<Kamping_Kaiser> keyboard layout change?
<ogra-classmate> seems i got a proper squashfs image running :)
<willvdl> ogra, they're sending me one of their server boards as well. maybe I can squeeze a classmate out of them too ;)
<jsgotangco> willvdl: i am not bitter
<willvdl> :)
<juliux> hi willvdl
<willvdl> juliux, hi. still looking for that poster
<juliux> willvdl, thxs
<juliux> willvdl, next week linuxtag starts :(
<willvdl> as does eLearning Africa :)
<willvdl> juliux, I have a mock up, just not a final version
<moquist> willvdl: BTW, I was in the air approaching the U.S. when I finally remembered "Gary Oldman", and I had typed in "imdb.com" but not yet searched for "Army of Darkness" when I remembered "Bruce Campbell".
<juliux> willvdl, can you send it to me?
<willvdl> moquist, legend!
<willvdl> juliux, it's not going to be of much use...
<juliux> willvdl, hm ok
<willvdl> it has no text and is a pdf
<willvdl> it was originally outsourced
<juliux> willvdl, did you see a nice wallpaper or a normal grafik we can print?
<willvdl> juliux, let's take a look in the DIY marketing pool
<juliux> willvdl, good idea
<willvdl> know of anything that might be in there?
<willvdl> apart from using just the logo...
<willvdl> juliux, chatting to jono now...
<juliux> willvdl, ok
<jsgotangco> so willvdl looks like bruce campbell? heh
<willvdl> gimme some sugar...
<willvdl> juliux, jono's sending me a poster link. I'm also looking in the bzr branch: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/
<willvdl> but my internet has almost died
<juliux> willvdl, great
<willvdl> juliux, anything in http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Posters/ look right?
<willvdl> apparently there is a poster there they always use
<willvdl> (not edubuntu though...)
<juliux> there is nothing edubuntu special
<juliux> for ubuntu we have posters
<juliux> we will print the highway to freedom poster in din a0
<willvdl> juliux, ah. The edubuntu poster I was referring to was never fully commissioned. The screenshots etc. went in but it was never finalised
<juliux> willvdl, ok, then i/we know what we can do over the summer;)
<willvdl> juliux, I will get the work done on it so far.
<willvdl> pity
<willvdl> juliux, this is the one jono and jenda suggest: http://diy.devubuntu.com/repo/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Posters/
<juliux> willvdl, but there is now edubunt poster an i am only searching for a edubuntu poster
<pedrolo> hi all
<pedrolo> in my client not respondig keyboard. Only key 2 3 4 and 0 recognize
<pedrolo> why? please
<pedrolo> keyboard is an ps2
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<bddebian> Hello Kamping_Kaiser
<Hornypian1> Hi
<Hornypian1> I need some help please
<pedrolo> in my client not respondig keyboard. Only key 2 3 4 and 0 recognize why? please
<willvdl> pedrolo, have you tested the keyboard on another PC?
<willvdl> Hornypian1, best just to ask the question :)
<pedrolo> yes and works perfectly
<willvdl> pedrolo, hmmm. Not sure, never heard of this
<pedrolo> in the boot the keyboard work fine, but when login not
<pedrolo> only work keys 2, 3 ,4 and 0
<pedrolo> i see the support but i don't see nothing
<pedrolo> thanks willvdl
<pedrolo> i add in dhcpd.conf "acpi = 0" but not work
<willvdl> hmmm, weird keymapping maybe?
<pedrolo> keymapping = es
<pedrolo> not keymapping is correctly
<pedrolo> only work trhee keys
<pedrolo> and the key 0 repeat very much
<pedrolo> not, keymapping is correctly
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<willvdl> urk, erm, brb
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<willvdl> highvoltage, pm
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu people
<LaserJock> willvdl: did you see my "roadmap" page?
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: still around?
<willvdl> LaserJock, morning/evening
<willvdl> about to have a peek
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I've got about 24hrs before I expire from edubuntu-bugsquad
<willvdl> LaserJock, I know https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuRoadmap is legacy but me tinks I should delete it :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<willvdl> good page
<LaserJock> willvdl: perhaps it should be Edubuntu/DevelRoadmap or something
<willvdl> yeah. thinking on that right now
<LaserJock> it would be good to put it under "Development"
<willvdl> think it needs a "Gutsy" specific name or tag?
<LaserJock> well, I was thinking we'd just update it at/after the UDSs
<willvdl> deffers. I'd say Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap/GetItHere/ForGutsy/UntilItsGone
<LaserJock> and we can also set the "Feature List" from the stuff on the roadmap that gets done
<willvdl> just kidding. Right, we clean house each UDS and use the same page
<willvdl> ooooh. you're on fire
<LaserJock> so we should have at the end of gutsy a "Gutsy Features" page that would list the stuff we got implemented along with other nifty things
<LaserJock> and a link to the gutsy application list ;-)
<willvdl> nice
<LaserJock> if we need any release-specifc documentation we can also put links there
<LaserJock> so a user can easily go to one page and learn about a release
<LaserJock> which I think is important for Edubuntu as it's still rapidly developing
<willvdl> yeah, it would be a devel snapshot of the info. WE could move "stable" info onto www.edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> yep
<willvdl> righty. got to run home. still need to finalise the app review spec. bit complicated at the mo
<willvdl> I like the way you've seperated tech | infrastructure | community
<willvdl> that may work quite well
<LaserJock> we'll see
<LaserJock> I just thought I'd get the ball rolling
<willvdl> LaserJock, is nicah
<willvdl> back on a bit later
<highvoltage> ogra-classmate: how's the classmate coming along?
<ogra-classmate> fast :)
<ogra-classmate> i got the squashfs running ... a complete edubuntu-live desktop and still 1gig free space on the disk
<kleinmat> dvd?
<ogra-classmate> 2gig flashdrive in a classmate pc
<kleinmat> oh nice ;)
<kleinmat> squashfs for temporary files?
<ogra-classmate> no, for the system
<kleinmat> loading into ram?
<kleinmat> or acting from flashdrive?
<ogra-classmate> you take one live iso squashfs image, mount that readeonly .... you take a second partition (ext2) and merge these two in a unionfs mount
<ogra-classmate> all data hyou write to the unionfs will be stored in the ext2 partition
<ogra-classmate> all data you never touched will come from the readolny fs
<ogra-classmate> that way you can squeeze 2.3g of / into less than 1gig
<LaserJock> 1GB free? wow
<kleinmat> oh that's good..
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: there was never doubt i would get that going with 1gig ;)
<kleinmat> do you mean with data you write,  files from the users ?
<ogra-classmate> speed was my concern
<kleinmat> or also new packages?
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: true
<ogra-classmate> and its speedy enough now to even run add/remove properly
<ogra-classmate> oo.o still takesw 1.5-2min to start though
<ogra-classmate> kleinmat: all system files ... even new packages
<kleinmat> and then it's merged together with the "outdated" and the new changed files?
<ogra-classmate> i just installed flash on top of a readonly fs ;)
<kleinmat> nice..
<ogra-classmate> right, all rw files are coming from the ext2 partition
<ogra-classmate> a full dist-upgrade would break it though
<kleinmat> another question:  has anyone tested the new audiosystem coming with new edubuntu?
<ogra-classmate> but its enough for the installation of security upgrades, codecs etc
<kleinmat> so that you can use alsa at the ltsp thinclients..
<kleinmat> ?
<ogra-classmate> right
<kleinmat> noone?
* LaserJock gently pokes ogra-classmate about edubuntu-bugsquad
<ogra-classmate> it works fine, what do you need to know ?
<kleinmat> ah okay :)
<kleinmat> so
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: as soon as i am near a machine with accounts that are not called teacher or student ;P
<kleinmat> do you think i can install the new audiosystem ( fuseaudio? )  under ubuntu, not edubuntu?
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: excellent ;-)
<kleinmat> if i install the ltspmetapackage i don't think fuseaudio is installed with it..
<kleinmat> or?
<ogra-classmate> pulseaudio gets installed by default in everz ltsp install now ... no matter if ubuntu, kubuntu or edubuntu
<kleinmat> wuhu that's great..
<ogra-classmate> its only client side stuff ... on the ltsp server side you only install the matching libasound plugins
<ogra-classmate> teacher@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache show ltsp-server-standalone|grep Depends
<ogra-classmate> Depends: ltsp-server, dhcp3-server, libasound2-plugins, libgstreamer-plugins-pulse0.10-0
<ogra-classmate> as you can see :)
<kleinmat> installing the ltsp meta package   and adding SOUND = Y and SOUND_DAEMON  = fuse  to the ltsp.conf  and then it works?
<ogra-classmate> no
<kleinmat> ?
<ogra-classmate> fuse has nothing to do with sound
<ogra-classmate> also the necessary stuff is already set in lts.conf
<ogra-classmate> you dont need to touch anything .... just boot your clients
<kleinmat> okay  nice..
<kleinmat> that's good.
<kleinmat> now i've got a ltsp edgy server..
<kleinmat> do you think i can't easily update to feisty?
<kleinmat> right with the clients?
<kleinmat> distupgrade..
<ogra-classmate> rather rebuild the clients
<kleinmat> that's not the problem..
<kleinmat> kay
<kleinmat> cool..
<ogra-classmate> update the server to feisty (that will bring you the ltsp 5.0.7 package) and run sudo ltsp-build-client
<kleinmat> do I have to remove the old  chroot of the clients?
<ogra-classmate> yes
<ogra-classmate> but -build-client would have told you so qanyway <:)
<kleinmat> ;)
<kleinmat> the problem is, it's a business thinclient server so i
<kleinmat> 'm a little scared..
<ogra-classmate> try it out on another machine then
<kleinmat> i try it at a long weekend..
<kleinmat> so thank you.. :)
<ogra-classmate> :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<LaserJock> hmm, so I just had an interesting conversation about LTSP with one of the IT managers on campus
<LaserJock> he's very much a Windows guy
<LaserJock> but he thought LTSP was really cool
<yuriy> what's the devel channel for edubuntu?
<LaserJock> here
<yuriy> oh
<yuriy> i want to work on porting the thin-client-manager to qt4
<LaserJock> we are small enough that we don't need a separate -devel
<yuriy> oh, ok
<LaserJock> nifty
<yuriy> well for a small group, it's really nice!
<yuriy> i just set it up yesterday, i was surprised how easy it was
<LaserJock> perhaps it would be best to send an email with your idea to edubuntu-devel mailing list (on lists.ubuntu.com)
<LaserJock> I'm sure Pete Savage would be interested in it
<yuriy> LaserJock: it's part of this spec: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/EdubuntuKDE
<LaserJock> he and Oliver ( ogra ) wrote thin-client-manager
<LaserJock> yes, I've seen a fair amount of demand for KDE
<LaserJock> it seems like tricky business
<yuriy> k, thanks, hopefully i'll get started later tonight. first i need to learn how to use bzr, anyway.
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> and welcome to Edubuntu ;-)
<ajmitch> hi
<kleinmat|lernen> ogra-classmate:   args I mistook?!  fuseaudio with pulseaudio ;)
<kleinmat|lernen> ogra-classmate:  that's the new sounddemon..
<willvdl> LaserJock, back again. Want me to move that roadmap page?
<LaserJock> if you want
<LaserJock> it's up to you, oh Edubuntu doc guru ;-)
<willvdl> urk
<willvdl> sweet. I'll get the ball rolling :)
<willvdl> focus will-san. spec first
#edubuntu 2007-05-22
<bhagman88> hello
<LaserJock> hi
<bhagman88> I'm having an installation issue
<bhagman88> could you help me?
<LaserJock> I might
<bhagman88> ok
<LaserJock> but I'd need to know you're problem first ;-)
<bhagman88> so when i try to partition
<bhagman88> i'm not ble to
<bhagman88> i actusally try to just partition the entire thing
<bhagman88> and it doesnt allow me to
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> you want to wipe the whole drive?
<willvdl> does it give an error? or just nothing happens?
<bhagman88> error
<bhagman88> and I would indeed like to wipe the entire driv :-)
<bhagman88> i want to make a dedicated linux laptop
<willvdl> what error does it give?
<bhagman88> awe man now I feel like an idiot
<bhagman88> I wrote it down but can't find it
<bhagman88> i guess that this will be unanswered till i find the error again :-)
<willvdl> the error could be the key :)
<bhagman88> indeed it could :-P
<yuriy> hey LaserJock, any idea when i can expect silentk to be around?
<willvdl> LaserJock, rewrote. hopefully more generic like original.
<willvdl> Will work on design again tomorrow
<LaserJock> k
<willvdl> thanks again for the help. will (must) have it done by spec review cut-off (end of month)
<moquist> what's the "good" GUI for managing network connections these days? I almost never use GUIs, but I'm prepping a laptop for a GUI-ish person, and I want to give him whatever the recommended thing is. Is the default thing the right one in feisty?
<bimberi> moquist: Yes, Network Manager is installed by default and is excellent
<moquist> bimberi: Great! I'd heard of "Network Manager", but I wouldn't know it if it hit me in the face.
<moquist> Ah! I guess selecting "About" after right-clicking on the applet tells me what it is. Cool.
<moquist> bimberi: thx
<bimberi> moquist: np
<moquist> Totem is really doing well. I'm very pleased with its DVD playing.
<moquist> I'm actually excited to hand this to the user, and I have high hopes that he won't want the Windows XP dual-boot anymore.
<willvdl> windows cannot handle my 3G connection anymore. it is dead to me :)
<LaserJock> heh
<willvdl> seriously, it gives 633 errors repeatedly
<willvdl> changes my desktop theme by itself
<willvdl> and eventually locks my cardbus
<willvdl> ok. late. bed
<HellTrade> Could here someone help me please?
<LaserJock> you'll need to state the problem in order for people to know
<HellTrade> sure
<HellTrade> but it is polite to ask no?
<HellTrade> 1. How do I make the graphics card driver for an NvidiaG4 work
<HellTrade> I found the right driver - the older one - they have too
<HellTrade> and found five different manuals
<HellTrade> on the net
<HellTrade> none workd
<HellTrade> I even read in a forum a guy complaining
<LaserJock> usually we'd prefer it if you simply ask the question, when it comes to IRC
<HellTrade> now you have it
<LaserJock> well, if you don't need 3d acceleration I belive you can install nvidia-legacy drivers
<HellTrade> it is an old card
<HellTrade> but it is ugly to have an 21 inch screen and not be able to have 80 hz or good resulution
<HellTrade> I show you the driver
<LaserJock> HellTrade: you might want to look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Latest_Nvidia_Dapper
<HellTrade> so it is an NVIDIA Gforce4 MX
<HellTrade> I looked there for sure
<HellTrade> was the first place that pagte
<LaserJock> or perhaps https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<yuriy> is it dapper? or what version?
<HellTrade> what is a dapper?
<HellTrade> I find it
<yuriy> dapper = ubuntu 6.06
<HellTrade> the newest
<HellTrade> sorry i am new
<HellTrade> feisty
<HellTrade> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_1.0-2802.html
<HellTrade> that I found now - but not debian/ubuntu
<HellTrade> but i was last time on another site and found what was recommended
<HellTrade> so this should owrk?
<HellTrade> The easiset method by far is to use System -> Administration -> Restricted Drivers Manager. If that fails, see below.
<HellTrade> ok i take a look
<HellTrade> can i encrypt the partition?
<bimberi> :-O
<cliebow_> using wireshark what should the print command be besides lpr?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<jsgotangco> hi
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello juliux
<willvdl> sbalneav, woohoo
<sbalneav> Hello willvdl
<RichEd> hi willvdl sbalneav juliux ogra-classmate
<willvdl> hey
<sbalneav> hiya
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: how's the classmate ?
<highvoltage> hey RichEd willvdl and juliux
<ogra-classmate> hey
<RichEd> hi highvoltage
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: fast
<ogra-classmate> the image i got now is perfect for usage, i dont think i can get it any faster
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: good :) mine is quite slow when you load more than one application
<RichEd> ogra-classmate:  I sent a mail a few minutes ago that I'd like some input on from you ... please see the attached doc and questions I have left for you.
<ogra-classmate> well, thats a general thing on mine you can run two or three without probs but then it runs out of ram at some pooint
<ogra-classmate> currenly my system thinks it has 3Gig btw ;)
<RichEd> how did you manage to do that ?
<ogra-classmate> using a squashfs for the main system .... a readonly sys
<RichEd> okay ...
<ogra-classmate> then i mount a second (300mb) partition to that
<ogra-classmate> and use unionfs to merge these two
<ogra-classmate> the system now sees only /
<ogra-classmate> whike / is in fact a merge of /readolny-squashfs and /readwrite_partition
<ogra-classmate> everything thats unmodified just comes from teh squashed fs
<ogra-classmate> everything i9 modify moves automatically to the rw partition
<ogra-classmate> this makes it possible to install upodates, codecs etc with no problems
<sbalneav> ogra-classmate: Hey, just checking, ldm itself is staying in Python, right? It's just the GREETERS that are c-ified
<sbalneav> Slick work on the classmate, btw
<ogra-classmate> add/remove works at a reasonabkle spped here btw
<ogra-classmate> i installed flash and the mp3 codecs with it yesterday
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: sounds like some creative genius is at work there :)
<ogra-classmate> well i'm nearly done ... just some settings and a new usplash
<ogra-classmate> the other artwork is fixed as well already
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: then the test to see if I can update mine across the wire ...
<ogra-classmate> all i'm missing is an install script or something
<ogra-classmate> that wont work this easily yet#
<ogra-classmate> you need a certsain partition layout
<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: i'd love to switch to something lihter, but form a security pov its way easier to contribiute to the python script
<ogra-classmate> i'm fearing we land in security hell if we switch to something else
<sbalneav> I agree.  Change the greeters, but lets keep the core ldm in python.
<ogra-classmate> well
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: that's why I'm here to test and follow instructions from you, if I can't do it with your assistance, we'll need to make another plan
<ogra-classmate> python puts some speed issues up
<sbalneav> I've done some hacking on the weekend.  Did gadi actually send you a patch?
<sbalneav> Or did he just make a suggestion?
<juliux> hi RichEd highvoltage
<sbalneav> I'm working on adding python.pexpect support into the pipeline to handles errors/password expiry.
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: let me finish the image first ... we'll test during the week, i need to test myself first, currently i'm running everything fromn an external 2g usbstick
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: no rush ... when you feel you are at a good baseline, we'll give the "upgrade" a go
<ogra-classmate> yep
<ogra-classmate> well, i felt a bit under pressure from maria ... i was wondering if i should just send her one usbstick with the image to boot from
* ogra-classmate bought a collection of these things :)
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: is there a specific mail where she is asking for quick results ?
<ogra-classmate> intel also sent me a new driver from ralink i'll have to test that as well and i'm still missing an idea why the resuming doesnt work
<ogra-classmate> there was one about he wanting to demo it if we have anything already
<ogra-classmate> s/he/her
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: please /join #CmPc @canonical
<juliux> are there only classmate pc user allowed;)
<RichEd> ping ogra
<ogra-classmate> i'm there :)
<RichEd> thanks
<highvoltage> hey juliux
<life> hi
<life> anyone in?
<life> i have some questions about edubuntu
<life> hello?
<sbalneav> Hello
<sbalneav> What can I help you with?
<sbalneav> life: ping
<highvoltage> sometimes you give life a ping, and get nothing back. that's just how life is.
<RichEd> life has quit ? quit living or quite smoking life or quit asking questions ?
<RichEd> *quit smoking life
<willvdl> quit quitting
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu people!
<willvdl> evening LaserJock
<RichEd> hello LaserJock
<RichEd> bye all ... dinner with the father in law
<highvoltage> it's tough when life quits on you.
<highvoltage> bye RichEd!
<highvoltage> morning LaserPerson!
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: yeah, I'm a member again ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> we should probably talk about EC at the meeting today
<highvoltage> LaserJock: the TB meeting?
<LaserJock> oh wait, Edubuntu meeting is tomorrow
<LaserJock> my bad
<bddebian> Heya
<highvoltage> hey bddbbdebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: when you've got a chance please sponsor my debdiff on bug #32252
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32252 in tuxpaint "Installs two desktop launchers in different sections" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32252
<ogra-classmate> indeed
<LaserJock> I didn't realize that bug was affecting gnome-app-install
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we have any other "offenders" installing .desktop to non-/usr/share/applications/ directories but we need to fix any that we might have
<GNu_Joe> is there a live-CD version of the Edubuntu server? need something to demo to a grade school
<highvoltage> nixternal: not yet
<highvoltage> nixternal: oops, not you :)
<highvoltage> GNu_Joe: no, not yet. it is planned for a future release though
<GNu_Joe> any ideas on how to demo Edubuntu to show how it will allow the old equiptment to be used again?
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey see bee ex 33
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage
<LaserJock> GNu_Joe: there is a LiveCD
<LaserJock> that would show off the apps and what it'd look like
<GNu_Joe> LaserJock, yes?
<LaserJock> but it won't demo the LTSP setup
<GNu_Joe> LaserJock, need to demo the LTSP stuff
<LaserJock> then I'd take a laptop with Edubuntu on it
<LaserJock> and do a direct connection to one of their machines
<HedgeMage> crimsun: hi
<HedgeMage> oops
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage
<nixternal> oi!
<GNu_Joe> Can the LiveCD be used to doa LTSP boot?
<cbx33> did anyone get an email about ubuntu live?
<LaserJock> GNu_Joe: you mean as the client?
<sbalneav> GNu_Joe: Best way would be to set up Edubuntu server on a laptop or something like that, then come in, and boot the lab off of that.
<yuriy> hoping of course that the lab computers can boot off the network
<LaserJock> you check that first of course ;-)
<willvdl> alright. back online.
<willvdl> having pcmcia issues. the pccardctl util tends to hang uninteruptably
#edubuntu 2007-05-23
<LaserJock> wahooo, will's back :-)
<Burgundavia> NM tends to cause my X to hardlock
<Burgundavia> is tonnes of fun
<willvdl> LaserJock, don't be alarmed now son :)
<LaserJock> I have nasty hibernation issues
<LaserJock> I wonder if it could be NM
<LaserJock> edgy was solid for me for hibernation
<LaserJock> one feature (resume when you open the lid) didn't work but it was solid
<LaserJock> with feisty I get all kinds of issues
<LaserJock> I have to sit there and watch to make sure it actually hibernates
* ajmitch never hibernates or suspends
<LaserJock> and lately it's been not hibernating but losing keyboard
<LaserJock> so I can't do much to fix the problem
<LaserJock> so it's a hard reboot
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I probably shouldn't either, but I hate leaving a laptop on all day. I'm afraid it's going to overheat
<willvdl> LaserJock, just think of it some _serious_ hibernation
<willvdl> OMH, have I been waiting for this or what! https://forge.vodafonebetavine.net/projects/vodafonemobilec/
<ajmitch> looks useful
<LaserJock> is vodafone a cell phone provider?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> a rather large international one
<ajmitch> thankfully my phone did automatic roaming onto the vodafone UK & vodafone ES networks when I was over there :)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that we have it in the US
<LaserJock> I think I might have been OK in Spain if I had a quad-band phone
<willvdl> LaserJock, one of the reasons we have sooo many Edubuntu wiki pages is also because I initially setup redirects from camel case wikinames to sub-linked structure
<willvdl> nervous to remove them :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I just do a quick google search on the url to see if anybody is linking to them externally
<LaserJock> and an internal search
<LaserJock> and I zap them if I get nothing
<willvdl> folks use bookmarks sometimes though
<LaserJock> bah, who cares ;-)
<willvdl> or delete em and revert on complaints :)
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<willvdl> thar she blows
<willvdl> who's a regexp guru here?
<willvdl> okie. late again. see you tomorrow
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Fredri1> Hello, is there anyone that can guide me through some admin tools in edubuntu? Im trying to get a network printer set for all users, is there any way to do this without going in to every single user account and set it?
<RichEd> Fredri1: let me check for a wiki page quickly ... give me a min
<Fredri1> Thank you
<RichEd> Fredri1: https://help.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/desktopguide/C/printer-configuration.html
<RichEd> see: Printer Configuration with the Terminal (Advanced Users)
<RichEd> You could write a script to do this I assume.
<Fredri1> Thanks
* Feldegast is AFK, tv
<RichEd> hi ogra-classmate
<ogra-classmate> hey hey
<RichEd> quicki wiki question: can i do a block where I tell the wiki to interpret as standard HTML and not wiki formatting ?
<kgoetz> yes you can
<kgoetz> off the top of my head i dont remember though (for the ubuntu wiki)
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: ah, -classmate isnbt registered so you didnt see my answer
<ogra-classmate> put the block in three curly brackets
<RichEd> thanks kgoetz
<RichEd> thanks ogra ... I presume I can do as long a chunk as I want ?
<kgoetz> ogra-classmate: heh. so i did remember, i'm getting my wikis confused ;)
* RichEd will go test now ... nested tables in wiki markup is not fun or relaxing
<ogra-classmate> tables and wikis are nothing you should menition in the same sentence
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: no luck {{{ stops wiki interpretation but does not process HTML
<ogra-classmate> you need to close it as well
<ogra-classmate> oh
* RichEd did that
<ogra-classmate> you want the html to be processed ?
<RichEd> yessir i do indeed
<ogra-classmate> i dont think thats possible
<RichEd> or in fact *not* processed, but just sent to my browser so it can process it
<ogra-classmate> i thought you wanted to show it
<RichEd> np ... will go back to || then
* RichEd sighs
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think it escapes everything out :(
<highvoltage> html in wiki would've been so nice.
<ogra-classmate> thats unlikely to work ... if it would work it would be a big security hole in moin
* RichEd lols
<RichEd> from #moin <quote>
<RichEd> <ThomasWaldmann> there is a unsupported html macro
<RichEd> <xorAxAx> and there is moin 1.6
<RichEd> <ThomasWaldmann> but be aware of the security issues you'll have on a public wiki with this
<RichEd> <RichEd> thanks ...
<RichEd> you tech guys are all alike ;)
<ogra-classmate> if you could embed html you likely could include java or javascript and do evil things
* RichEd will defer then to ensure that evil does not rule my world
<ogra-classmate> hmm, running evo with 20000 mails in my inbox doesnt make classmate to happy
<ogra-classmate> hehe
<highvoltage> ogra-classmate: other CMS's does it, I'm sure it can be done securely, you can filter stuff like javascript out
<ogra-classmate> probably
* highvoltage typed that before reading all the scrollback :)
<ogra-classmate> i wouldnt do it if i were CMS upstream
* highvoltage neither :)
<ogra-classmate> it introduces an area thats predefined to cause you pain and grief
<willvdl> RichEd, send me the html you want to display. I'll see if I can hash out a script
<willvdl> or, if it's an app list, lets pop it in drupal :)
<willvdl> drupal knows html ;] 
<willvdl> cbx33!
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<RichEd> willvdl: first i'll get my page looking right in || and then maybe chat to you about a chunk of content
<RichEd> thanks
<willvdl> RichEd, if it's already in formatted html then it should be easy on the www site
<RichEd> willvdl: i'll do a couple of pages and then show newz2000
<willvdl> better :)
<RichEd> if he likes what I am doing he may give me edit rights on a pre-production server ... cut out the middle step
<willvdl> pre-production server?
<RichEd> not sure what you call it ... test server ? the draft server ? that's just the naming convention we used in corporate land
<willvdl> meaning a whole new seperate server?
<RichEd> willvdl: he already has one ... where he built the new www.ubuntu.com content efore it replaced the old content
<RichEd> *before
<willvdl> ah. gotcha. was scared we were splitting servers for a sec :)
<jsgotangco> ahh there's a meeting later
<jsgotangco> but that's 4am for me heh
<willvdl> highvoltage, have you ever looked at Intel little valley servers?
<highvoltage> willvdl: no
<willvdl> aha. want to help me test one out?
<RichEd> willvdl: speaking of meetings ... are you able to chair tonight ? i have relatives with me (father in law) and am out to a family dinner.
<ogra-classmate> teacher@edubuntu:~$ df -h
<ogra-classmate> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<ogra-classmate> unionfs               278M  8.0M  270M   3% /
<ogra-classmate> /dev/sdb3             825M   29M  796M   4% /home
<ogra-classmate> meet the smallest edubuntu evah :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: yep. what do I need to do?
<willvdl> RichEd, sure
* RichEd gives a little tiny handshake
<kgoetz> ogra-classmate: waho
<willvdl> edubuntu-lite ...
<willvdl> highvoltage, intel guys sent me one to look at
<willvdl> just wondering how it would compare with other stuff you've been using as TC servers from them
<RichEd> willvdl: from the UES relationship ? or another angel ?
<RichEd> *angle
<willvdl> RichEd, both. I deal with Intel ed folks on NEPAD as well
<cbx33> ogra-classmate: so what's installed on it?
<willvdl> but Willie linked me and Africa GM recently. going to chat to them in Kenya
<cbx33> UES is an Angel?
<willvdl> cbx33, or a Darling
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra-classmate> heh
<ogra-classmate> well, it hides a lot :)
<ogra-classmate> cbx33: www.classmatepc.com
<cbx33> 404
<willvdl> cbx33 works for me
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: <BenC> RichEd: I'm going to test out rt73 again today on the classmate, using the driver that just got sent to me (which should support network-manager, wpa, wep, etc)
<ogra-classmate> yeah, i was on CC in that mail
<ogra-classmate> would be cool to get that fixed finallz
<ogra-classmate> s/z/y
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: also see the hackety hack mail
<RichEd> let me know if you think this would be a fit for CmPc
<ogra-classmate> will do
* RichEd collection -> 30 mins
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: the hackerty hack stuff would force us to pull a lot of stuff to main and on the CD i not really keen to support
<ogra-classmate> *i'm
<ogra-classmate> getting it into universe would be no problem though
<willvdl> does anyone know if https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting is still current?
<willvdl> it looks old but I'm wondering of Henrik's Testing pages take care of this now?
<willvdl> ogra, do you still use https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting?
<willvdl> ogra-classmat1, ^^^
<ogra-classmat1> willvdl: it should be obsolete, i should make new test plans anyway for every release
<willvdl> doesn't Henrik's Testing page host that stuff now?
<ogra-classmat1> cjwatson and Keybuk are currently asdjusting the spec templates so we can add testing plans during speccing in the future
<ogra-classmat1> hendriks testpage has none of the edubuntu specifis afaik
<willvdl> aha. okie. will leave them there scheduled for expansion
<ogra-classmat1> i'll try to work out somethingt proper before the big testing starts
<mcsd> does anyone have edubuntu running?
<mcsd> I was wondering if someone could check something for me
<SimonAnibal> I have Ubuntu running...
<mcsd> SimonAnibal: do you have kstars installed?
<SimonAnibal> Yeah
<mcsd> can you open it for me please
<SimonAnibal> sure
<mcsd> when I right click on an object ...say mars it has a list of thumbnails you can open..they open but if you chose say the wikipedia page entry on mars I get an error
<mcsd> Error: Could not launch the browser Could not find service 'kfmclient'
<SimonAnibal> Lemme check
<willvdl> kfmclient?
<mcsd> it appears because it is expecting to use KDE and not Gnome to route the request
<SimonAnibal> I get the exact same error message over here
<willvdl> yeah
<mcsd> I googled kfclient I think it is something within KDE
<willvdl> must be possible to reconfig to use firefox
<mcsd> kfm rather
<SimonAnibal> Hmmm, I can't find a preference for the browser
<mcsd> I couldn't find anything either
<willvdl> urk but that service won't be running anyway
<willvdl> unless, you install its package...
<SimonAnibal> Definite bug
<mcsd> it really stinks cause linking to pages would be really useful
<mcsd> I have it here   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/112414  but no responce
<ogra-classmate> kfmclient is the piece that starts konqueror in browser or filemanager mode
<willvdl> and a built in usabliity feature already
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112414 in Ubuntu "Error: Could not find service 'kfmclient' using Gnome" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<mcsd> yeah that is my post
<willvdl> :)
<ogra-classmate> tra setting kstars to use a browser instead :)
<ogra-classmate> *try
<SimonAnibal> how?
<mcsd> does the description in Launchpad seem clear?  I din't know how to classify it
<willvdl> sounds fine. someone will try and confirm it
<willvdl> then assign it
<SimonAnibal> Can I confirm it? Or does a bug person have to do it
<SimonAnibal> Hm, interesting visual
<mcsd> ogra-classmate: try setting kstars to use a browser instead :)  ... do you know how to do this?
<jikanter> does edubuntu package bluej?
<ogra-classmate> msno idea, in the settings somewhere ?
<RichEd> jikanter: i can't see it in add/remove ... what is it ?
<kgoetz> i'm just trying dansguardian+squid - i'm impressed
<kgoetz> wonder what the order of events is as far as filtering - i have adzapper and dansguardian. i'm not sure which is taking the brunt, but either way, its good
<moquist> ogra-classmate: should I be able to drop your C greeter into /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/greeters and just pass 'greeter' in the path instead of 'gtk' in ldm? (It's not starting.)
<moquist> dang.
<jikanter> it is the program my university uses to teach students to program
<jikanter> RichEd: It is the program my university uses to teach students to program
<RichEd> jikanter: can you give me a reference where I can see the application details ? web page ?
<kgoetz> what log file can i look in for hits againt the tftp server?
<kgoetz> sorry, cancle that
<kgoetz> darn. there used to be instructions on teh edubuntu wiki how to setup a client to boot the server, but be able to boot windows. anyoneknow where they went?
<ogra-classmate> likely in help.ubuntu.com
<ogra-classmate> s/in/on
<kgoetz> i'll have a try, thanks
<kgoetz> *sigh* cant find it. another page i should have saved :|
<ogra-classmate> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<moquist> ogra-classmate: should I be able to drop your C greeter into /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/greeters and just pass 'greeter' in the path instead of 'gtk' in ldm? (It's not starting.)
<moquist> ogra-classmate: rather, the X server keeps bouncing up and down, and greeter is complaining about ...
* moquist boots the TC again
<kgoetz> ogra-classmate: ah, wicked, thats the area.
<moquist> ogra-classmate: should I need to install any additional packages in the chroot to use the C greeter?
<ogra-classmate> moquist: i'll provide a new ldm package soon, until then you should just untar the tgz in the client chroot
<juliux> hmm i have some strange syslog entries from pulseaudio any ideas?  http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/10980/
<ogra-classmate> it should install everything in the right locations
<juliux> that creates a lot of cpu work and so my fan is running the whole time
<juliux> pulseaudio comes with the ltps packages on my computer
<kgoetz> anyone here use feisty? is it possible to reboot a client, or sitll only to shut it down?
<kgoetz> anyone here usign feisty. stupid questions r us
<yuriy> i think it's still only shut it down
<moquist> ogra-classmate: I just have a URL to a bzr branch. where is this tgz?
<juliux> nobody an idea about the pulesaudio problem? if i stop pulse audio via the init.d skript it starts again, if i kill the porcess it starts again
<juliux> ok i will remove pulseaudio;)
<kgoetz> reboot would be so useful debuggin :\
<ogra-classmate> juliux: hmm, nothing of ltsp-server should depend directly on pulse
<juliux> ogra-classmate, no not depend but recommended
<ogra-classmate> recommend is fine, but it shouldnt be installed, thats strange
<ogra-classmate> you only need pulse on the client
<ogra-classmate> kgoetz: feisty has reboot
<kgoetz> ogra-classmate: woot. thanks. :)
<ogra-classmate> moquist: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-new-greeter.tgz
<moquist> ogra-classmate: thx
<kgoetz> almost there i hope. having issues booting per mac.
<kgoetz> anyone got experiance booting with different pxelinux.cfg/config files? i've had it happening in the past, but cant for the life of me get it working now
<moquist> kgoetz: you mean getting macs to boot a different config?
<kgoetz> no, getting a pxe system to use a different config by MAC address
* kgoetz thinks after 1am isnt the best time for this, but carries on anyway
<moquist> kgoetz: right...configuring dhcpd.conf to give a certain MAC address a certain set of options
<moquist> kgoetz: Though I now see you're not talking about computers from Apple. :)
<kgoetz> :)
<moquist> kgoetz: Same answer, though. I'll plop a dhcpd.conf that does this sort of thing up on nopaste.
<kgoetz> i thought you dropped a different named config file in pxelinux.0, but i'll look into the dhcpd.conf
<kgoetz> moquist: that would be awesome, thanks
<moquist> kgoetz: Well, you will need a different pxe config file
<moquist> kgoetz: but dhcpd.conf has to know to hand that as an option to the DHCP client in question
<moquist> http://n01se.net/paste/ld4
<moquist> kgoetz: ^^^^^^
<kgoetz> looking
<kgoetz> hm. think i get it. i'll try it out. thanks again
<moquist> kgoetz: np
<kgoetz> moquist: is /lts/boot relative to teh tftp dir?
<moquist> kgoetz: yes
<moquist> kgoetz: that file came straight out of an almost-stock K12LTSP install, which puts some things in different places.
<moquist> (than edubuntu)
<cbx33> and cryptography freaks here :p
* kgoetz dives into syslinux documentation
<kgoetz> PXELINUX will search for its config file on the boot server in the following way:
<kgoetz> First, it will search for the config file using the hardware type (using its ARP type code) and address, all in lower case hexadecimal with dash separators; for example, for an Ethernet (ARP type 1) with address 88:99:AA:BB:CC:DD it would search for the filename 01-88-99-aa-bb-cc-dd
<kgoetz> but its /not/ doing that :(
<moquist> ogra-classmate: just to review ('cuz the udev init changes aren't letting X start): I commented out /sbin/udevtrigger and the entire "if /sbin/udevsettle" branch.
<ogra-classmate> no
<ogra-classmate> dont comment udevtrigger
<moquist> how about udevmonitor?
<ogra-classmate> its the essential part you need
<moquist> ogra-classmate: the note I wrote when you told me the first time is wrong. I will now fix it. :)
<moquist> ogra-classmate: so only comment out udevtrigger?
<ogra-classmate> udevmonitor and udevsettle should be commented
<moquist> ha ha! ONLY comment udevmonitor and udevsettle, then.
<ogra-classmate> right
<moquist> ogra-classmate: righty-o.
<ogra-classmate> i not even sure monitor gains us anything, but settle will
<LaserJock> hi ogra-classmate
<ogra-classmate> monitor likely only saves some ram
<ogra-classmate> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> I don't suppose you've had a chance to look at my debdiff for tuxpaint?
<willvdl> hey folks, how does one work out a .deb dependency list?
<kgoetz> apt-cache [r] depends
<LaserJock> willvdl: how do you mean?
<willvdl> say for eg I want to install apache2 on a PC that has no internet connection
<LaserJock> ah, then depends might work
<willvdl> and I want to get all the required packages
<willvdl> is there a way to just list the stuff I would need to download that are not part of a standard install?
<moquist> it should be possible to put in a server install CD and add that repo to the sources.list
<willvdl> apache2 was jsut an example
<LaserJock> willvdl: well, synaptic will do it for you
<moquist> willvdl: run apt-get install <blah> on a standard install that *is* connected to the network, and copy 'n paste the list of stuff that will be installed.
<LaserJock> if you go in and select what  you want to install
<LaserJock> then select the "save download script" it saves a bash script with wget lines
<LaserJock> run that on any *nix computer and you'll have the .debs
<moquist> LaserJock: that rocks.
<LaserJock> of course it does ;-)
<willvdl> it's hhhawt
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> there's also aptoncd
* moquist laughs
<LaserJock> which I think might make you an .iso for it
<LaserJock> but that might be a bit overkill in this case
<willvdl> but useful
<willvdl> LaserJock, where is the "save download script"?
<LaserJock> in "File"
<willvdl> ah, save markings
<LaserJock> there should be a "Generate package download script" option
<LaserJock> and then there is a "Add downloaded packages" option right below it
<willvdl> right, but it only generates one level of dependency
<LaserJock> it should produce everything you need to install
<willvdl> what about stuff that those packages depend on?
<willvdl> the dependencies for the dependencies?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> becuase when you go to install something, it has to do that anyway
<willvdl> or is that all the depencies needed for your current system?
<LaserJock> yes
<willvdl> sweet
<LaserJock> so run it on the computer with no connection
<willvdl> excellent
* RichEd out for dinner with family guests
<willvdl> well, I'm suggesting the guy set up a vmware or qemu of the system he wants to maintain
<RichEd> willvdl: may see you later in the meeting ... depends
<willvdl> in his office
<willvdl> RichEd, cool
<willvdl> with a test bed like that he can determine what to download so that he has the stuff for the off-site installation
* LaserJock out
<willvdl> LaserJock, moquist : that's exactly what I need
<willvdl> I'm assuming synaptic is doing an apt depends anyway. would be interested to find out
<kgoetz> this picture is of a menu put up from the default config file. i'm trying to get it to boot teh mac (should be first). even after trying what i've had suggested here icant get it going. throught the picture might make clear what i'm trying to do (incase it wasnt) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=LTSPMultibootScreenShot.png
<kgoetz> hum.... i might have got it to go
<kgoetz> for some reason, using the hex works, using the mac doesnt - *bit round shrug*
<kgoetz> You guys are legends! it works :) thanks for your work
<apecat> hmm, i'm trying to boot a client (vmware) to my edu feisty ltsp in vmware, and after the bootsplash i get bothing in all it's grandness. where should i start troubleshooting?
<apecat> *lts
<willvdl> ===== Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 20 minutes =====
<willvdl> ooh, tea
<LaserJock> argg, I forgot about it
<willvdl> your tea?
<LaserJock> no, the meeting
<crimsun> he's terribly busy being an MOTU superstar :-)
<crimsun> with his frickin lasers
<LaserJock> I'm actually trying to do some experiments
<LaserJock> and do some Main merges
<crimsun> see? frickin lasers
<juliux> willvdl, this time first h tech and the 1h communoty ??
<LaserJock> crimsun: of course lasers ;-)
<LaserJock> and I'm trying to arrange somem sea bass from the bio dept. :-)
<willvdl> "Jordans with frikkin laserbeams attached to their head"?
<willvdl> juliux, we'll follow the usual format I guess...
<juliux> willvdl, ok
<LaserJock> arggg
<willvdl> hopefully not 2 hours :)
<LaserJock> 3?
<willvdl> If you want
<willvdl> I can go on about the war?
<willvdl> s/go/drone/
<willvdl> ===== Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 7-ish minutes =====
* LaserJock tries to do a gcompris merge before the meeting starts
<LaserJock> hmm, then he realizes how long it takes just to download the gcompris tarball :/
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: pfft ... you should see the upload times
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: were you planning on doing the merge?
<LaserJock> I just saw it was there and thought I'd give it a go
<ogra-classmate> well, its on mz general o merge"list
<ogra-classmate> *my
<pips1> hi folks
<ogra-classmate> but i'm happy to give it away
* pips1 looks in disbelief at ogra's new nick
* ogra-classmate wonders if RichEd will jin us for the meeting
<pips1> =8-O
<ogra-classmate> *join
<pips1> ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I saw that doko touched it last so I wasn't sure
<willvdl> ===== meeting? =====
<pips1> willvdl: that's what I'm here for...
<willvdl> I want to hear all about Linden Labs!
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, RichEd might make it in later
<pips1> willvdl: well, it was just a presentation...
<willvdl> pips1, still... sounded interesting
<ace_ace> !ogra
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ogra - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ace_ace> !seen ogra
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen ogra - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ace_ace> !gcompris
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gcompris - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ace_ace> hi all, I have some problem with Edubuntu Feisty and Gcompris
<ace_ace> First off, let me tell you how much improved Edubuntu Feisty is over Dapper: GREAT work !
<ace_ace> My problem is: whe I run Gcompris, the screen gets all mangled on the thin client. At first it looks normal, then when there is
<willvdl> ace_ace, we're in an Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting at the mo. may be a bit quiet
<willvdl> pop by in there
<ace_ace> that little clown being overlayed on the puzzle that you just finished, it's getting all striped (interlaced, it looks).
<ace_ace> okay
<ace_ace> thanks
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: btw, are you still unable to post to edubuntu-* ML?
<ogra-classmate> i never was
<ogra-classmate> only -devel
<LaserJock> you can post to -devel? or no
<ogra-classmate> i can post to -users just fine
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<ogra-classmate> i cant post to -devel
<LaserJock> we need to get that fixed
<LaserJock> does using a separate email address help?
<ogra-classmate> i have to set up one first :)
<ogra-classmate> but i guess so
<LaserJock> we need expert input there ;-)
<LaserJock> and I'm at a bad TZ often to do IRC
<ogra-classmate> yep
<ogra-classmate> the ML needs love over all
<willvdl> did you submit an RT?
<ogra-classmate> there is quite a full queue as well
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: who admins the edubuntu-devel list?
<ogra-classmate> me, highvoltage, mez and RichEd
<ogra-classmate> where mez isnt been active over the last 6 months
<LaserJock> I don't mind moderating if you need help
<ogra-classmate> i love to
<ogra-classmate> i'll mail you the data if i'm back near my regular laptop again
<ogra-classmate> (tomorrow morning)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: fine
* ogra-classmate looks at this handfull of 2gig usb sticks .... 
* ogra-classmate looks at this usb hub next tothe stack ....
<ogra-classmate> hmmm
<ogra-classmate> i wonder how fast a usb raid cluster might get
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra-classmate> i'll test that if i'm done with the classmate :)
<crimsun> ogra-classmate: not very.
<ogra-classmate> data scattered over 4 or 6 flashdisks could get pretty fast
<crimsun> I have 5 right now, and it's not noticeably faster than SATA.
<ogra-classmate> but surely faster than one with three partitions you also run the os from :)
<crimsun> man I'm going to miss free hw.
<ogra-classmate> going to ?
<crimsun> new job, no free stuff.
<ogra-classmate> better job ?
<crimsun> more challenging, more travelling - so in a sense, yes.
<ogra-classmate> aww, more travelling ....
<LaserJock> crimsun: is this a uni job?
<crimsun> no.
<LaserJock> so you're still teaching?
* nixternal installs desktopmoin
<crimsun> LaserJock: I resigned last week.
<nixternal> LaserJock: is it in our repos?
<ogra-classmate> crimsun: and you didnt apply at canonical ?
<LaserJock> nixternal: no
<nixternal> k
<LaserJock> crimsun: wow, big changes for you
<nixternal> he is moving to DC...he wants to be my neighbor
<LaserJock> heh
<crimsun> ogra-classmate: no.
<ogra-classmate> meh
<ace_ace> hey guys
<ogra-classmate> what a miss for us :(
<ace_ace> still having problems with gcompris! The sound is working perfect in 7.04
<ace_ace> but on the thin client, the screen is all messe dup. I tried gcompris -w but same problem.
<ace_ace> Is thers some option that i need to enable to stop the screen messing up ?
<ogra-classmate> try X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<ogra-classmate> in your ltd.conf
<ogra-classmate> err
<ogra-classmate> lts.conf
<ace_ace> ogra!
<ace_ace> The rest of Edubuntu is workng fine, it's just gcompris, are you sure ?
<ogra-classmate> well, color depth is one option ... it wont hurt to try it once :)
<ogra-classmate> after all its only adding/removing one line to a file :)
<ace_ace> yea h yeah and by accident rebooting the server instead of the tc :-)
<ace_ace> ogra: guess what, it worked :-) won't you make that the default in the lts.conf next release ?
<ogra-classmate> no
<ogra-classmate> its onlynecessary on older and rather underpowered graphics boards
<ogra-classmate> so making it a default would be to much
<ace_ace> ah okay. I have one of those disklessworkstations, a pity that thet have underpowerd gfx board then! (I got 56 og them :-)
<ace_ace> But okay i got this now an will document it somewhere so I won't forget !
<ogra-classmate> oh, the 500mhz one ?
<ogra-classmate> the 1ghz variant works fine with 24bit
<ogra-classmate> t170 is the name i think .... vs t150
<ogra-classmate> it might be that you can set the shared graphics memory higher tofix that
<ace_ace> it don't matter for now. I can see edubuntu has improved greatly!!!
<ogra-classmate> +*
<ogra-classmate> :)
<ace_ace> I now have to go back to my old struggle with win4lin, but the good thing is
<ace_ace> is that Jim Provan has opened his own site, win4lin9xsupport.com (or something like that)
<ace_ace> so finally we will have kernel support for that stuff...
<ogra-classmate> nice
<ace_ace> Everytime I restart doing stuff with edubuntu, I am full of plans and ideas then 3 months later I have to confess that there is just nog enough time...
<lns> wassuuuuuuuup all
<ogra-classmate> yeah, it tends to eat peoples time
<lns> Is it ok to discuss a vanilla Ubuntu Feisty/LTSP setup and some issues I've run into here?
<ace_ace> but edubuntu is becoming better though, so it's becoming more easy for me to build on it.
<ace_ace> So please do continue :-) I'll stand on the shoulders of giant ogre's :-)
<ogra-classmate> :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: thanks for the desktop-moinmoin heads up
<LaserJock> it's working for you?
<LaserJock> the thing that was nice for me is I can do it on my mac
<LaserJock> they have a nice desktopmoin for OS X
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: did you see the TB decision on core-dev process?
<ogra-classmate> nope
<ogra-classmate> i was pretty much out of the loop of everything during this week
<LaserJock> so basically the MOUTU Council will recieve applications and collet info/recommendations/etc.
<ogra-classmate> and thats unlikely to change before next
<LaserJock> and then pass on a recommendation to the TB which will set up an interview with the applicant
<LaserJock> I'm going to do a few more Main merges I think and then apply
<LaserJock> but I'll need you're testimony via email
<ogra-classmate> sure
<ogra-classmate> you can have me in the interview if you want :)
<LaserJock> excellent, just wanted to give you a heads up
<pips1> hi
<willvdl> LaserJock, what Mac do you use?
<pips1> willvdl: I'll respond to that mail you wrote about organising edubuntu.org, noting that I'd prefer a fresh re-install of drupal...
<willvdl> pips1, cool. I'm a self-proclaimed LP zealot :) so if you need help on that side I'm sure we can learn something from nixternal too
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, mentioned in meeting was considering drupal module (on some DB) vs DB and then CGI web-forms
<willvdl> the latter would not integrate well into drupal but if themed right might be much easier to develop?
<LaserJock> willvdl: I have an intel iMac, 17"
<willvdl> LaserJock, and you have acpi woes?
<LaserJock> no
<willvdl> suspend resume?
<LaserJock> oh, that was on my laptop
<LaserJock> my imac is only OS X
<willvdl> oops, I'm thinking macbook
<willvdl> curious as to ubuntu support on mac lappies
<LaserJock> pips1: I'm totally +1 for using the LP teams/bzr/bug tracker for the edubuntu website
<LaserJock> I think it's pretty darn good
<pips1> willvdl: ogra-classmate if there are any questions about implementing the app-database as a drupal module, ping me
<willvdl> pips1, I'm thinking about whether we should do it in drupal
<willvdl> it means we have issues of upgrades of drupal etc.
<LaserJock> well, you can put in essentially arbitrary php into a drupal page
<willvdl> and if we ever decide to move it or share it across the edubuntu and community site...
<pips1> well, you can ask matt nuzum on his views on this too, he has written a drupal module for the ubuntu.com site...
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: well, it really depoends on who will make it ...
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, true
<LaserJock> that's the other thing
<willvdl> so, who will make it? :)
<LaserJock> do we even know who'll work on it?
<willvdl> HedgeMage mentioned offering some help? <hint hint>
<LaserJock> should we make it a community project?
<ogra-classmate> i wouldnt be able to write a drupal module for example, i have no clue abiout php and am not keen on learning it
<willvdl> of course
<pips1> HedgeMage: ? that was long ago...
<willvdl> no, recent
<willvdl> according to rich
<willvdl> presumably one can plug in arbitrary python cgi into drupal module too
<pips1> oh, well I remember a conversation with RichEd and HedgeMage, but that was ages ago, but of course she might have talked to RichEd more recently
<LaserJock> or you should be able to do it outside of drupal as well
<willvdl> yeah
<pips1> hmm..
<LaserJock> I get a bit hesitent to do stuff like this in drupal
<willvdl> my vote would be for python cgi. we have more python coders
<LaserJock> since we could change cms or perhaps other people want to use it
<willvdl> and I am more than happy to work on layout vs css
<willvdl> which I can do better than coding these days
<LaserJock> we can use the css from the drupal site and it should blend in ok
<willvdl> LaserJock, or LP decides to integrate it :)
<LaserJock> if it's python I could probably at least attempt at contributing
<ogra-classmate> right, that would be a future goal
<willvdl> pips1, but if it's easier in drupal... and we have more contribution...
<willvdl> let's do both and see who gets it done first? Winner gets an honourable mention :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well, perhaps we need to get a person/team around it first
<LaserJock> and see what those people would like to do, since they're writing it, and discuss it with sysadmin's to make sure they're ok with it
<willvdl> we have a website team but maybe a different one
<willvdl> maybe register as a product and new team to control bzr access
<pips1> yeah, I guess the person who does it get's a say on how to do it...
<willvdl> LaserJock, and get it approved :)
<pips1> however, let me just quickly state the benefits / drawbacks i see for doing it as a drupal module:
<willvdl> shoot
<pips1> Benefit 1: The application items are integrated in drupal's search
<willvdl> application items?
<pips1> Benefit 2: Perhaps each application item should be a drupal "node", that would give us drupal's tagging (taxonomy) "for free"
<ogra-classmate> pips1: you need a lot of backend code i.e. apt integration .... we have python modules for these already while you need to write something for php first
<pips1> Benefit 3: User authentication would be integrated with drupal, i.e. someone who signed up as a drupal site contributor will be able to contribute to the applications database, and we could leverage drupals permission management to even have rights for adding items / writing reviews / commenting / rating...
<ogra-classmate> php/drupal will be a lot easier for the frontend integration etc, but there will be a good amount of backend to write
<pips1> willvdl: oh, by "application item" I mean, the description (metadata) of an edu application
<willvdl> BEnefit 3: can we integrate with LP account?
<LaserJock> well, for the frontend all we need is a form page and some display pages right?
<LaserJock> so we can have drupal pages that GET/POST to a python engine
<LaserJock> or am I wrong?
<pips1> willvdl: about LP account integration, I asked the same question to RichEd when we dicussed the community site, but he said that we shouldn't get bogged down by this...
<ogra-classmate> anyway, bedtime for me, if there is anwhere i can help with and i dont need to learn  php for it, just let me know :)
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: right
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I'll be sending you a debdiff for gcompris and if you can do that and the tuxpaint debdiff I'd appreciate it
<LaserJock> I already got dholbach to sponsor a merge
<ogra-classmate> is there anything left in gcompris >
<ogra-classmate> ?
<LaserJock> to keep?
<HedgeMage> Somebody hilight me?
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, nighty
<ogra-classmate> yeah
<ogra-classmate> i think we can just sync
<LaserJock> well, I'll have to check but I think we still are removing some sounds
<HedgeMage> whyfor what's up and all that stuff?
<ogra-classmate> debian should use a recent python now
<HedgeMage> willvdl, pips1: ping
<willvdl> pips1 single-signon will be important only really if we require submissions from registered accounts
<ogra-classmate> the sound removal was due to the space issues
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: and those aren't a problem anymore?
<willvdl> but for maintenance of the queues would be by devs anyway
<willvdl> HedgeMage, howdi
<pips1> Drawback 1: If we use drupal's form API, that is already known to change for drupal 6, so yes, the code would need to be adjusted once we would switch to drupal 6
<ogra-classmate> i'm fine with getting some mb back for not having to maintain gcompris
<HedgeMage> hi willvdl, did you and pips1 need me for something?
<ogra-classmate> we have the space
* HedgeMage saw her nick was hilighted
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: ok, so if the sound thing is all that is left I'll do a sync-request bug
<pips1> HedgeMage: hi there
<HedgeMage> hi pips1
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<willvdl> HedgeMage, we're discussing the implementation of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-application-review
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: sound removal and python version were our only changes afaik
* HedgeMage reads
<pips1> we were discussing who and how ... ah, willvdl beat me to it :-)
<willvdl> which is essentially a database with some kind of webfrontend where we can vet apps (like winehq)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: there was a 64bit correction, but I think that was done upstream as well
<willvdl> and pass them into a process queue to help the MOTUs, ogra and anyone reviewing for main or CDs
* HedgeMage nods
<willvdl> so...drupal vs python cgi
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: "Fix build failure on 64bit archs with python2.5"
<ogra-classmate> if we can anyhow make it possible to not have to maintain gcompris separately that would really rock
<LaserJock> I think we don't
<LaserJock> I just need to verify
<ogra-classmate> that should be in debian already
<ogra-classmate> but i'm not sure
<LaserJock> because I saw in the Debian changelog it looked like to cherrypicked a fix from upstream
<LaserJock> I just need to check because MoM had a conflict on that file
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I'll email you either way ;-)
<HedgeMage> willvdl, pips1 Everything you need to do that already exists in Drupal (with a couple of contrib modules) -- I think I saw you two mention single signon though and if you mean the module by that name rather than just the concept, I'd say go about it differently
<ogra-classmate> great
<ogra-classmate> its a bit odd, the classmate stuff keeps me on feisty
<ogra-classmate> i havent seen much gutsy yet
<willvdl> HedgeMage, the sign-on thing is probably moot
<HedgeMage> Since Drupal allows pluggable authentication schemes, and so much *buntu stuff uses Drupal, has anyone contemplated writing a Drupal module to allow authentication via Launchpad?
<HedgeMage> willvdl: oh, how come?
#edubuntu 2007-05-24
<willvdl> well, we want to lower the bariier for folks to vet apps
* ogra-classmate notices angry looks from the side from GF ....
<willvdl> but make sure that devs can maintain the queues in the background
<pips1> HedgeMage: the sign-on thing is high priority...
<ogra-classmate> i'll rather say goodnight now ..... ciao
<HedgeMage> Either it's moot or it's high priority...
* HedgeMage is confused
<HedgeMage> nn ogra-classmate
<willvdl> pips1, why high?
<pips1> sorry, *not* high priority
<pips1> sorry
<willvdl> :)
<pips1> HedgeMage: explain what you mean by everything you want already exists as drupal contrib modules
<willvdl> HedgeMage, our main concern is scalability and leveraging biggest developer pool
<pips1> willvdl: by scalability, I suppose you mean, you want the performance of the application database to scale well?
<HedgeMage> pips1: If I'm understanding what you want correctly, someone could submit a node with an application description, link to the app home page, possibly an attached file (package), and it should be rated and reviewed by many people, then passed on for review by someone of a special role, correct?
<willvdl> pips1, no, I mean if we move to 6.0 or if we move parts of our webforms to the ubuntu-education site... flexibility more like
<willvdl> HedgeMage, yes. It would be rated etc.
<pips1> well, if it is done as a drupal module, we could easily use it at both edubuntu.org and ubuntu-education
* HedgeMage would use core Drupal + CCK (for a special node to make the form more intuitive) + upload (optional core module) for uploading the file + either 5star, review, or another voteapi module depending on the style of voting you want, then if you want to get really fancy add workflow and event so that when the reviews/votes hit a certain threshold, moderators/decision-makers are alerted
<willvdl> HedgeMage, the review process would tag it as: in Main? in Universe? need packaging? with reasons as to why it's held up or waiting etc.
<HedgeMage> willvdl: that's easy to add, it's just a CCK taxonomy form field (you could use a standard CCK field, but making it a taxonomy thing improves performance and allows more flexible searching/viewing by status)
<willvdl> HedgeMage, the more I think on it, it could be really easy in drupal
<willvdl> I like the taxonomy idea
<LaserJock> but in the end how easy would it be to get the data *out* of drupal?
<LaserJock> can we just do a DB dump?
<willvdl> matt nuzum reckons no LP authentication module yet, but openid should be easy and LP might get there
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yep
<willvdl> LaserJock, yep
<willvdl> custom commandline query if you want
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: basically to get everything you'd need two things: a DB dump and a copy of the files/ dir where the uploaded files are kept
<willvdl> HedgeMage, it uses either postgres or mysql right? there is a choice?
<pips1> HedgeMage: yes, I understand the drupal modules you are suggesting, but we are talking about validation ... i.e. we want to query dynamically if debian packages for a certain (edu) application exist already before a community member creates a new entry in the app db...
<HedgeMage> willvdl: mysql support gets a little more attention than Postgres, but postgres is still supported.
<willvdl> HedgeMage, the files would stay in archive.ubuntu.com or packages.u.c or whereever
<willvdl> we would only link meta-data and our own commenting/vetting etc.
<HedgeMage> willvdl: ahh, so we're just linking to them?
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> don't want to reinvent LP :)
<HedgeMage> In that case, just slap together a custom CCK type for it -- I'd have to code a submodule for the linking to a package field interface to make it more non-coder friendly, but that's certainly do-able
<HedgeMage> (It'd probably be a weekend project, not horribly complicated)
<HedgeMage> What kind of API does LP provide for pulling that sort of information?
<willvdl> dunno.
<willvdl> but we wouldn't have to link to LP I don't think
<HedgeMage> oh, just put in a link to the LP page?
<willvdl> except maybe to get the seed file per release
<willvdl> the only way to check if a package is on a CD is to query the seed
* HedgeMage thought it would be nice to pull in everything but the file itself (just grab the metadata) for display in the drupal site to make it a more intuitive interface.
* HedgeMage is just kicking out ideas of course
<pips1> guys.. I need to go.. HedgeMage, I'm glad you're pitching in with this... but please, before you jump to any solutions, do read the specification in depth first, and we should elaborate the spec and the implementation bits a bit further before coming to any conclusions / hackfests :-)
<HedgeMage> pips1: definitely... I don't have time for a hackfest for a couple of weeks anyway
<willvdl> HedgeMage, meta-data like age applicability, localisation concerns etc. are not in LP
<willvdl> they have to go in by hand
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> okay
<HedgeMage> I have to go too
<willvdl> pips1, nighty. I will wrk on the spec more tomorrow
<willvdl> HedgeMage, thanks a million
<pips1> thanks guys.
<willvdl> sounds like we have a solution. I'll put things down more clearly on the spec wiki page asap
<HedgeMage> willvdl, pips1 -- someone please email me a reminder if you don't hear back from me by next week
<pips1> and just to let you know - I'm travelling from tomorrow until monday, so unfortunately, I'll only be able to pick up the ball on tuesday earliest
<HedgeMage> I have a lot on my plate right now and don't want to let this slip :)
<willvdl> I'm traveling from Sunday to Thursday
<willvdl> but will flesh out the spec first
<pips1> uh uh, too much travelling all around
<willvdl> HedgeMage, we envision this process/spec becoming a core part of app review in general
<HedgeMage> cool :)
<willvdl> plus, we need a new drupal anyway :)
<pips1> willvdl: will you compile our discussion bits from above into the spec (pros/cons, drupal possiblities that HedgeMage mentioned - they are all valid)
<willvdl> yeah, logging this call :)
<HedgeMage> rocking :)
* HedgeMage goes back to work work
<pips1> use this info in particular HedgeMage: "HedgeMage would use core Drupal + CCK (for a special node to make the form more intuitive) + upload (optional core module) for uploading the file + either 5star, review, or another voteapi module depending on the style of voting you want, then if you want to get really fancy add workflow and event so that when the reviews/votes hit a certain threshold, moderators/decision-makers are alerted"
<pips1> ^^^ that a good summary of what would be needed drupal wise
<willvdl> right, it's ANOTHER very late night for me :)
<willvdl> see you guys tomorrow
<HedgeMage> ttyl
<pips1> however, building "workflow" in will need a bit more effort that a weekend hackfest ;-)
<pips1> see you next week
<willvdl> pips1, we stage the development.
<willvdl> bits at a time
<pips1> righty
<willvdl> ciao
<pips1> cu!
<ajmitch> hello Burgwork
<Burgwork> hey ajmitch
<HedgeMage> pips1: I meant that particular feature would be a weekend hackfest :P
<Solifugus> If I want to install in a lab for diskless workstations, what version of edubuntu do I need?  edubuntu-server?
<Burgundavia> classroom server
<Burgundavia> hey HedgeMage
<Solifugus> I don't see one called classroom server... just desktop, server, and server addons
<Burgundavia> where are you looking?
<Solifugus> http://mirrors.cat.pdx.edu/ubuntu-iso/edubuntu/feisty/
<Solifugus> Also... is edubuntu gnome only?  I'd really strongly prefer kde
<Burgundavia> you can install kde
<Burgundavia> but the default is gnome
<Solifugus> ok.. fine then..
<Burgundavia> in this case, you need the server cd
<Solifugus> I need capabilities that gnome doesn't have. like kio slaves
<Burgundavia> why are not downloading from edubuntu.org?
<HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia
<Solifugus> Burgundavia: I just googled for "edubuntu downloads"
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> the first hit I get in edubuntu.org/download
<Solifugus> Burgundavia: but doesn't that eventually lead to mirrors.. like the one i picked.
<Burgundavia> yes, but is explains what each download is
<Solifugus> Burgundavia: yep.. that's true..
<encompass> Amaranth: are you the guy that made the Amaranth theme?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<LaserJock> morning highvoltage
<highvoltage> morning LaserJock
<mcsd> does anyone know if the restricted drivers are loaded by default in fiesty?
<`6og> i would expect them to be
<mcsd> hmmm lspci shows: 01:00.0 VGA comapatible controller: ATI TECH INC RV380 [Radeon X600 (PCIE)
<mcsd> 01:00.1 Display Controller: ATI Tech I
<mcsd> 01:00.1 Display Controller: ATI Tech Inc RV380 [Radeon X600
<`6og> does `lsmod |grep ati` or `lsmod |grep fgl` return anything?
<mcsd> but my resolution only goes up to 1024 x 768
<`6og> sigh. i have to stop siwtching gui/sli irc clients
<mcsd> lsmod |grep ati: cpufreq_conservative      8200   0
<`6og> i was /trying/ to say: you probalby only need to reconfigure xorg
<mcsd> ...but then everytime I reboot the live cd it will revert back to the incorrect xorg.conf
<mcsd> is there a way to include the correct xorg.conf into a live cd?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<`6og> um. there was some work done on that, but i dont know anything about it
<`6og> hi sbalneav
<`6og> how you going mate?
<sbalneav> Doing ok
<ha> Do you know somebody a programm for nuclear chart like kalzium for periodic table?
<ha> (for isotop table)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: did you see my sync request bug for gcompris?
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: all it needs is an ACK from you and for you to subscribe ubuntu-archive
<ogra-classmate> nope, i have 110unread bugmails in my bugfolder atm let me look it up
<ogra-classmate> there you got your ACK :)
<ogra-classmate> the deps are right as well ?
<ogra-classmate> (python version)
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure
<ogra-classmate> good
<LaserJock> for 2.5 it was just a rebuild
<ogra-classmate> right
<LaserJock> I had StevenK build it on amd64 for me
<LaserJock> just to make sure the 64bit python problem was fixed
<ogra-classmate> great
<LaserJock> and I installed it and everything seemed ok
<ogra-classmate> worst case ping me for such stuff
<ogra-classmate> i have an qamd64 (even no amd64 os atm)
<LaserJock> ah
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: any clue what bug 115704 might be about ??
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115704 in gcompris "use gcompris on logout" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115704
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: not yeat
<ogra-classmate> heh
<LaserJock> when i was doing the sync I noticed that there were 24 gcompris bugs!
<ogra-classmate> its a *bit* sparse
<LaserJock> I'm going to try to go through those and see what can be closed, etc.
<ogra-classmate> there should be a bunch that is just leftover paperwork
<ogra-classmate> i.e. fixed upstream
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra-classmate> `anyway, i have to go mowing now ... else i"ll have a bad evening .... grass is starting to grow up to the window sill at points
<ogra-classmate> and i'm overdue
<tristan_> can anyone tell me if sound is supported at the edubuntu thin clients?
<yuriy> it is
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> how do those thin client work? just with a xserver client on a remote server or what?
<tristan_> didn't read the manual and stuff.. I know ;p
<LaserJock> basically
<tristan_> ok
<LaserJock> the thin client gets a basic environment, kernel, X
<LaserJock> then sets up an ssh connection back to the server
<tristan_> so it's actually the same as a normal setup?
<LaserJock> in what way?
<LaserJock> I mean, what the client sees should be normal
<tristan_> well, like I installed with the debian netinstall in the past
<tristan_> hmmz
<LaserJock> but there's a lot of complications
<LaserJock> sound is one of them
<LaserJock> devices on the client is another
<ogra-classmate> complications ?
* ogra-classmate raises a brow
<LaserJock> well, it's not like doing it on a normal machine
<LaserJock> you had to build that stuff in
<ogra-classmate> indeed
<tristan_> hmmz... not just installing Linux with a x-client?
<ogra-classmate> but it functions like normal
<LaserJock> yes
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: not completely, but basically :)
<LaserJock> I'm just saying it's a bit more complicated than doing X forwarding
<ogra-classmate> the chroot we use is tweaked in many ways from a normal basic linux system
<ogra-classmate> but the base is a mini ubuntu
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> :)
<LaserJock> tristan_: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-theory.html might be a good read
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<t94xr> http://digg.com/software/Sue_me_first_Microsoft
<ogra> LaserJock, http://librarian.launchpad.net/7824279/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gcompris_8.3.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :(
<LaserJock> what?!?
<LaserJock> configure: error: Couldn't find gnuchess
<ogra> well, i suspect its the one after that
<ogra> ./configure: line 27762: exit: please: numeric argument required
<ogra> ./configure: line 27762: exit: please: numeric argument required
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
<LaserJock> well darn it, I built it on an updated i386 gutsy pbuilder
<ogra> i'll look into it on the weekend
<LaserJock> I wonder if it's a buildd problem
<LaserJock> I don't see why it would, but I know there have been issues
<LaserJock> ogra: what about tuxpaint? think you can get that uploaded before the weekend?
<ogra> nope, next week is my big merge and spec review week
<ogra> i'm unlikely to find time before
<ogra> the gcompris error goes over all arches
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> ok, I'll try to look at it as well
<LaserJock> I don't understand why it worked in my pbuilder though
<ogra-classmate> well, worst case we just add gnuchess to the build deps
<ogra-classmate> might make sense anyway
<LaserJock> hmm, that line 27762 in ./configure is:
<LaserJock>   { (exit please install the gnuchess package version 5 or above); exit please install the gnuchess package version 5 or above; }; }
<ogra-classmate> hmm
<ogra-classmate> how does debian handle that then if its not a build-dep
<ogra-classmate> hmm, there is a build-dep
<LaserJock> so did the buildd just not find gnuchess?
<ogra-classmate> URHG
<ogra-classmate> there is no gnuchess anymore
<LaserJock> in the log I see: Note, selecting gnome-games instead of gnuchess
<ogra-classmate> teacher@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache show gnome-games|grep Replaces
<ogra-classmate> Replaces: gnuchess, gnome-sudoku
<LaserJock> well heck
<ogra-classmate> hmm
<LaserJock> gnuchess is old
<LaserJock> but it's still in unstable it seems
<ogra-classmate> well, i"ll talk to seb tomorrow if he"s around again
<ogra-classmate> there should be a transition plan
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
<LaserJock> I'll have to take a look at my pbuilder
<LaserJock> it should have picked that up I think
<ogra-classmate> zeah
<ogra-classmate> s/z/y
<LaserJock> well, I'm sorry oliver
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra-classmate> not your fault :)
<LaserJock> it also built on Stevenk's gutsy amd64 pbuilder
<LaserJock> so 2 gutsy pbuilders built it fine
<ogra-classmate> its probably gone since the most recent gnome/games upload
<LaserJock> the last gnome-games was built on the 16th
<ogra-classmate> hmm
<LaserJock> anyway, I think seb128 or dholbach should know more about it
<LaserJock> it looks to me to be a gnuchess -> gnome-games transition issue
<ogra-classmate> yeah
<ogra-classmate> its very likely
<SimonAnibal> Ouch!!! Anyone familiar with APT enough to know what one's supposed to do when dpkg has a parse error in /var/lib/dpkg/available, and when you go check out the line it references you realize from there to the end of the file is the slightest bit garbled and corrupt?
<SimonAnibal> I have no idea what could have done this...
#edubuntu 2007-05-25
<crimsun> SimonAnibal: back up both /var/lib/dpkg/available, cp available-old to available? If available-old exhibits it, too, back up both, remove both, then apt-get update
<SimonAnibal> Phew!
<SimonAnibal> the available-old works
<SimonAnibal> :-/
<SimonAnibal> maybe not, give me a sec
<happywithed> Hello there
<happywithed> Can anyone here direct me to the documentation read to enable the USB ports on my thin clients?
<happywithed> Anyone? I am using Edubuntu Feisty
<crimsun> ogra: taking the pulseaudio merge if you don't mind. I've backported the DoS vuln fixes (pA ticket 67).
<willvdl> Morning folks
<LaserJock> uh oh
<LaserJock> it must be getting a bit late
<LaserJock> I saw will go to bed and now I see him getting up
<willvdl> nah, you didn't see me last night ...
<willvdl> had dinner party
<willvdl> LaserJock, what's your local time?
<RichEd> g'morning
<`6og> hi
<RichEd> mr kryptic kurt ... wassup with the nick ?
<`6og> my connection must have reset. this is one of my spare nicks
<Kamping_Kaiser> and while i'm `6og i get some time off ;)
<RichEd> sneaky sneaky
<Kamping_Kaiser> sometimes you have to be ;)
<highvoltage> morning RichEd and Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> morning/arvo highvoltage
<RichEd> hi highvoltage
* RichEd was wandering who arvo was for a moment ... doh
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol :|
<willvdl> :) it's called "arvie" over here
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<RichEd> hi willvdl ... vodacom behaving now ?
<willvdl> RichEd, seems it wasn't vodacom...
<RichEd> was your equipment faulty ;) ?
<willvdl> pcmcia buggy in feisty
<willvdl> and a virus in windows :)
* highvoltage would still blame vodacom ;)
<highvoltage> willvdl: will you be around next week? people are pesting me for videos, I'll have to do something about that!
<LaserJock> willvdl: 12:00am
<ogra> LaserJock, still around ?
<highvoltage> ogra: about those videos (saw you mentioned it in meeting-hilights), I'm ~1000km from home atm, and willvdl has my camera and tapes, I'm getting it from him on monday, then I can get it all ripped
<ogra> highvoltage, no hurry
<ogra> its great they exist, if they are online one day in the far future thats fine as well :)
<highvoltage> ok. it should be by the end of next weekend at the latest.
<ogra> oooh sillyness ....
<ogra> this release would have been the first one where we didnt need to touch gcompris ...
<ogra> but now gnome-games provides gnuchess which didnt exist in main before so it wasnt a build dependency ...
<ogra> if you build it now, it finds something that provides gnuchess (gnome-games) and indeed it tries to build against it ... which doesnt work because there is only a gnuchess replacement
* ogra bangs his head against the wall
<highvoltage> oho.
<highvoltage> ohno, even.
<ogra> hey, and its only 100M source
<ogra> fun to upload if we get a new upstream in the middle of the release cycle
<willvdl> 100M source for a chess game?
<willvdl> that's one intelligent chess game
<moquist> ogra-classmate: what exactly am I ampersanding to get nbd to run in the background? I'm looking at /opt/lt.../etc/init.d/nbd-client but it's non-obvious...
<moquist> ogra-classmate: I'm guessing just "$0 activate", though.
<moquist> ogra: ^^^^ (whichever of you is here :)
<moquist> ogra: no reduction in time to monitor detection from adding nolapic noacpi
<ogra-classmate> moquist: ltsp-client-setup is where you want to look
<moquist> ogra-classmate: k; i ampersanded nbd-client in ltsp-client-setup
<moquist> most of the time leading up to the monitor detection comes after 'nbd_server" in syslog on the server; I guess X is probably being configured then.
<moquist> ogra-classmate: static X config is the last of the things that we've discussed that I haven't tried, so hopefully that will help.
<ogra-classmate> it will
<moquist> Oy. It was *slower* with nbd& and nolapic noacpi
<ogra-classmate> but still, there is a kernel issue, i'm sure
<moquist> yep
<ogra-classmate> are you actually sure its the -386 kernel, not the -generic one /
<ogra-classmate> ?
<ogra-classmate> there were some issues with the kernel package during feisty dev
<ogra-classmate> so if you installed from an early pre version you might have the wrong kernel
<ogra-classmate> check that
<moquist> edubuntu 2.6.20-15-386
<moquist> ogra-classmate: No, this is the released version.
<ogra-classmate> ok
<moquist> ogra-classmate: so what is involved in me using static xorg.conf? If I just copy the generated one into the chroot, will that get used, or do I need to tell it somewhere not to do all the detection stuff?
<ogra-classmate> you need to add an entry to lts.conf
<ogra-classmate> like it was in 4.2
<moquist> right
* moquist was just figuring that out
<moquist> ogra-classmate: we shaved off a minute with static xorg.conf
<moquist> now: 238: seconds after DHCP success to login prompt
<moquist> ogra-classmate: list of modules loaded on the TC (in case you're interested, or in case you see anything immediately suspicous): http://n01se.net/paste/99?pretty=yes
<willvdl> ogra, at what stage in the devel cycle do apps get considered for main inclusion? anytime before the freeze?
<ogra-classmate> any time
<ogra-classmate> until very short before release
<ogra-classmate> it really depnds on the complexity
<moquist> CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=40 really makes use of those processors... ;)
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, thanks
<willvdl> would have thought before feature freeze
<ogra-classmate> no, it really depends on the app
<ogra-classmate> its favorable to have it done before FF though
<ogra-classmate> so you get more testing
<willvdl> gotcha
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, last one: when does the process of choosing apps for the CDs usually start and end?
<willvdl> at UDS we were implying that that would happen at each UDS but I can't see how
<ogra-classmate> there was no such process yet, we just added stuff if we thought it would fit until now
<ogra-classmate> the *plan* was that it *should* happen in the future at every UDS
<willvdl> hmmm, just thinking of chickens and eggs :)
<willvdl> not to worry, I'm being cryptic.
<ogra-classmate> for feisty for example, LaserJock and me just sat down and he suggested science apps from universe
<ogra-classmate> the last poackage went in shortly after beta iirc
<moquist> mmmmm. chicken. eggs.
* moquist is hungry
<ogra-classmate> stop taklking about food
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, I think I have a solution
<willvdl> moquist, gnaw on your fingers, that should take the hunger away
<ogra-classmate> we shouldnt do anything this time but get the voting mechanism up
<ogra-classmate> then next time we have a list toreview and compare against what we currently have
<willvdl> ogra-classmate,yeah. I'm just putting finishing touches on the spec
<moquist> willvdl: I'm still hungry, and now I'm getting blood on my keyboard.
<willvdl> had a really good look at appdb.winehq.com and have stolen some ideas from there
<willvdl> moquist, try swallowing the finger. that should also work
<ogra-classmate> did i say i got the wireless card on the classmate working ?
<moquist> what did it take?
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: uuuh, that could lead to bowl hugs
<willvdl> liquid laughs
<ogra-classmate> moquist: compiling the upstream source from serialmonkey.com
<ogra-classmate> it doesnt work with NM but is usable vial the network-admin tool
* moquist nods
* moquist cheers the kernel compile along
<moquist> 4 procs at 99%, and this is *still* taking a while.
<ogra-classmate> i'm looking around, there seem to exist NM patches as well somewhere
<moquist> It's been 2.5 years since I ran gentoo. I'd forgotten how long this takes.
<ogra-classmate> heh
<ogra-classmate> but i'm compiling my stuff directly here .... on the classmate ... its not as badd as one would think :)
<ogra-classmate> s/but/btw/
<moquist> Of course, at that point the only modules I built were the ones I explicitly configured. Now I'm getting everything in Ubuntu *minus* what I got rid of.
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, it's an 800MHz cpu right?
<moquist> 900 IIRC
<willvdl> L2 cache?
<ogra-classmate> yep 900
<ogra-classmate> 64k :P
<willvdl> ah
<willvdl> sounds like my desktop at home
* willvdl shudders at that thought
<ogra-classmate> heh
<willvdl> I'm not kidding
<ogra-classmate> well,m the screen is a bit smaller i guess ....
<ogra-classmate> but then you have a handle ....
<willvdl> the whole thing is a bit smaller!
<ogra-classmate> heh, yes
<willvdl> and infinitely cooler
<ogra-classmate> zeah
<ogra-classmate> err
<ogra-classmate> yeah
<willvdl> btw, some merchant banker buddies of mine want some classmates too...
<ogra-classmate> well, the keyboard needs some trainiong
<willvdl> gnaw on your fingers until their thinner
<ogra-classmate> i'm still not good enough
<moquist> I emailed larry and ajit to see if we could get some as SFD prizes, but no response so far. :(
<willvdl> que es SFD prize?
<ogra-classmate> software freedom day
<moquist> willvdl: http://softwarefreedomday.org <-- we run some contests in association with the day
<willvdl> por supuesta
<moquist> SCOTTY!!!!!!!!!
<sbalneav> hey moquist!
<moquist> sbalneav: didja get jibraltar?
<sbalneav> Sure did!  Thanks!
<moquist> coolies</pia>
<willvdl> hhhhawt
* moquist laughs
* willvdl decides voting to remove applications is probably not a very good idea
<DShepherd> I want to install the kde edutainment package on ubuntu. What is the name of the package?
<ogra-classmate> kdeedu
<DShepherd> ogra-classmate, thanks
<SimonAnibal> So, does anyone else feel a little strange about Ubuntu's main site being a screaming advertisement for Dell, while Dell's main site says not a thing about Ubuntu???
<SimonAnibal> And by screaming, I mean that the entire screen is an advertisement in 1024x768
<SimonAnibal> Oh, wait a minute, I guess they just recently did put Ubuntu up on the first page
<Hilmar> Enyone from Denmark inhere!?!?!?!
<Hilmar> Anyone...*
<willvdl> sorry...
<willvdl> maybe ask in Danish :)
<Hilmar> nogen herinde fra danmark??
<Hilmar> A friend and I just started a project for getting linux in schools and we would like to use edubuntu.dk for the webpage
<Hilmar> we will be testing skolelinux and edubuntu to find the best solution... If edubuntu turns out to be it, well then edubuntu.dk would be optimal
<Hilmar> whos doing the edubuntu.com webpage?
<yuriy> Hilmar: you might want to see what your loco is doing too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/
<Hilmar> Im part of the loco team... we just got the page up and running :)
<willvdl> awesome.
<willvdl> you listed on the LoCo team pages?
<Hilmar> yeah... Hows the progress on edubuntu? and does anyone know about skolelinux?
<willvdl> very familiar with skole
<Hilmar> okay... I havent tried anything out yet.. doing the final project this week
<Hilmar> are there any big differences?
<willvdl> between edubuntu and skole?
<Hilmar> yes
<willvdl> I personally haven't used skole but I know the apps involved
<willvdl> you looking into thin-clients at all?
<Hilmar> my buddy and I have borrowed a class room and 24 computer for the summer... We are going to test different setups for at school
<Hilmar> we start in a month since we both have examinations til then...
<willvdl> great! We'd love to hear about your experiences.
<willvdl> Please send us news on edubuntu-users mailing list :)
<Hilmar> I will
<willvdl> excellent.
<SimonAnibal> Erm, wait, no, Dell has a rotating banner that shows Ubuntu every fifth or so visit, maybe less, and no other indicators that it is offering Ubuntu as an option unless you get that banner and click on it
<Hilmar> maybe we'll create a #edubuntu-dk channel
<willvdl> SimonAnibal, www.ubuntu.com
<willvdl> oh, that's what you're talking about
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> the "big" picture
<SimonAnibal> willvdl, Precisely.
<SimonAnibal> It's not big, it's my entire browser real estate
<SimonAnibal> And if Dell's site had at least some consistent acknowledgement that it's offering Ubuntu as an option, I guess I wouldn't feel like this was so one-sided
<willvdl> pic is 653 x 360
<willvdl> well, it becomes a Canonical support question I guess
<SimonAnibal> Well, the point is I hit ubuntu.com, and besides the header, it's the only thing I see
<SimonAnibal> And in my experience, people don'
<SimonAnibal> t scroll down
<ogra-classmate> looks fine on the 800x480 display here
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, half of my 19"
<SimonAnibal> :-/ the reason I bring it up isn't how it looks. It's pretty and I would have definitely expected Ubuntu to advertise the fact that it's available on Dells now.
<SimonAnibal> But I guess the entire "above the fold" on the main page does seem a little extreme
<SimonAnibal> Especially when Dell doesn't mention it on their main page unless you happen to get that one random banner
<SimonAnibal> I can't see how anyone who went to Dell's site would notice the Ubuntu option unless they either followed an external link directly to it, or they happened to be in the 20% or so of people who actually see that banner when they go there
<willvdl> SimonAnibal, it won't be there like that permanently
<ogra-classmate> SimonAnibal: well, it pays my loan so i wont complain
<willvdl> lol
<SimonAnibal> I guess I am the only one who's bothered by the one-sidedness of this relationship
<SimonAnibal> Does Dell ship world-wide?
<ogra-classmate> only us
<ogra-classmate> for now
<ogra-classmate> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
<ogra-classmate> i dont find it to one sided if you compare the sizes of the companies at least
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I'm here now for a minute
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: so
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: gnuchess was never in main
<ogra-classmate> so gcompris never bothered to use it as a build-dep
<willvdl> why would gcompris have gnuchess as a dep?
<LaserJock> doh, I wondered why it was gnuches ould be in Main
<ogra-classmate> now gnome-games provides gnuchess, gcompris finds it but doesnt find any headers (indeed, since the chess shipped in gnome-games isnt gnuchess)
<LaserJock> *why gnuchess would be in Main
<ogra-classmate> so it fails ....
<ogra-classmate> silly silly silly /:
<LaserJock> so we should just remove the dep on gnuchess?
<ogra-classmate> well, likely even only set a configure option
<LaserJock> mhm
<ogra-classmate> it doesnt have a fixed build dep on gnuchess
<ogra-classmate> (afaik)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: there is a Build-Depends on gnuchess
<ogra-classmate> hmm
<ogra-classmate> then we need to drop it, i thought there was none
<LaserJock> ok, I'll drop the build depend, see if a ./configure flag is needed and get you a debdiff to sponsor this weekend
<LaserJock> sound ok?
<ogra-classmate> ok
<highvolt1ge> weekend, weekend, IT IS THE WEEKEND!
<ogra-classmate> good that we didnt do a manual merge btw
<ogra-classmate> 100M are way to much to upload
<highvolt1ge> ogra-classmate: wow, gnuchess still causing headaches?
<ogra-classmate> highvolt1ge: nope, gcompris size rather
<ogra-classmate> if it were a 100K package it would already be fixed
<ogra-classmate> the fix is trivial, but pushing around 100M, doing testbuilds etc is taking ages
<willvdl> Yeeha, got the app review spec done. up for review now
<willvdl> it's a bit convoluted, I may just add some realistic scope planning since it's a big project
<willvdl> ciao guys. see you all next friday!
<moquist> ogra-classmate: is there a good way to tell the kernel *never* to load a certain module?
<Rondom> moquist: blacklist
<yuriy> hi cbx33
<moquist> Rondom: where?
<Rondom> moquist: /etc/modprobe.d/yourfilename  with the content blacklist module_name
<moquist> Rondom: K; I was guessing that but I wasn't sure. :)
<Rondom> moquist: what's your module with problems called?
<moquist> last time I looked at modules configuration it was gentoo, and a 2.4 kernel... :p
<moquist> pcmcia_core :)
* moquist is preventing the TC from loading unnecessary crap
<Rondom> echo 'blacklist pcmcia_core'|sudo tee /etc/modprobe.d/pcmcia_core
<Rondom> the filename doesn't matter
* moquist nods
<Rondom> it's only for you to keep an overview
<moquist> ogra-classmate: I tried blacklisting a bunch of modules and still no progress.
<moquist> 
<moquist> ...in case you were wondering.
* moquist switches to a different window
<happywithed> Hello everyone
<happywithed> I have a beginner question
<happywithed> How do I make a folder appear on the desktop of all the LTSP clients?
<happywithed> In otherwords, I would like to create a folder where I can place files for all the students to see
<happywithed> Any ideas?
<Rondom> happywithed: I'm not familiar with the ltsp-stuff, but creating a symlink on the desktop of all users should do the trick (adjust teh permissions if you don't want them to delete the symlink)
<happywithed> Rondon: thanks.
<Burgundavia> this might be interesting for allow sysadmins to run random crap http://pam-sessionrun.aeruder.net/
<ogra-classmate> uh, scary ...
<ogra-classmate> but handy :)
<Burgundavia> indeed, slightly scary
<Burgundavia> but useful for a kiosk setting
<LaserJock> bah, latest comment on bug #113719
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113719 in ubiquity "Edubuntu Feisty Desktop CD install doesn't install the education suite" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113719
<LaserJock> is it possible to have a 7.04.1 just for Edubuntu?
<ogra-classmate> and then ?
<LaserJock> well, if we're able to fix the Feisty Desktop CD what would we do?
<LaserJock> just replace the current .isos or call it 7.04.1
<ogra-classmate> how would you fix it ?
<LaserJock> well, I don't know what exactly is wrong
<ogra-classmate> note that more than ten lines of change in any code wont be allowed
<ogra-classmate> there is nothing wrong it works as intended
<LaserJock> ah, it needs to pick up more than the -desktop
<LaserJock> right?
<ogra-classmate> no
<ogra-classmate> ubiquity deliberately uninstalls everything thats not in -minimal -standard and -desktop
<LaserJock> right
<ogra-classmate> the edu apps are in ship-addon and -live
<LaserJock> but ...
<LaserJock> you can add packages to the files it uses, I'm pretty sure
<ogra-classmate> users are supposed to use the addon cd for the edu apps
<LaserJock> well, *I* know what to do
<LaserJock> but it's pretty sucky when you install an educational distro and end up with no edu apps
<LaserJock> they are there when the person boots the CD
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure we could tweak the manifest files and fix this
<LaserJock> but perhaps Colin wouldn't go for that
<ogra-classmate> that would break ubiquity essentially
<ogra-classmate> its like it is by design
<ogra-classmate> i'll sit down with colin during gutsy and we'll work out a fix
<LaserJock> well sure, but the "by design" is screwing the Desktop up
<ogra-classmate> but for feisty it is like it is
<LaserJock> alright
<ogra-classmate> we failed in naming the addon cd right
<ogra-classmate> thats the main problem here (its called "server"-addon)
<LaserJock> it shouldn't be Server Addon is what you're saying?
<LaserJock> well, that's true
<ogra-classmate> the livecd should have been called demo
<ogra-classmate> and probably not have ubiquity
<LaserJock> but I think there is a fundamental flaw when the people don't get the same desktop they see on the LiveCD as when it is installed
<LaserJock> at least to this radical step
<ogra-classmate> yes
<LaserJock> what we *should* do for feisty is adjust the download pages
<ogra-classmate> but thats a price we had to pay for the spliut
<ogra-classmate> the archive, soyuz and germinate as well as ubiquity cant handle it differently atm
<LaserJock> an say that the Desktop CD is for demo purposes and that you need the Server Addon CD to get full functionallyity
<ogra-classmate> yeah
<ogra-classmate> something like that
<LaserJock> to me the way a lot of the mirrors have it
<LaserJock> the Desktop CD is the first in the list
<LaserJock> and the wording indicates it's the one you want unless you are doing an LTSP server
<ogra-classmate> yeah, its alphabetically i think
<LaserJock> well, the HTML part though
<ogra-classmate> which is clearly wrong
<LaserJock> we *should* be able to change that
<ogra-classmate> the livecd was alsways an unloved child of mine
<LaserJock> I'm not sure who's in charge of those
<ogra-classmate> colin i think
<LaserJock> "The desktop CD allows you to try Edubuntu without changing your computer at all, and at your option to install it permanently later. This type of CD is what most people will want to use. "
<LaserJock> ^^ is what we need to change
<LaserJock> if we work up new text for that do you think you could get colin to change it?
<ogra-classmate> sure
<ogra-classmate> but talk with RichEd and will first
<LaserJock> I think I might just email edubuntu-devel so they can weigh in
<ogra-classmate> they are responsible for docs and marketing stuff
<LaserJock> I just think it's a real issue for adoption if we are telling people to use a LiveCD that doesn't give them any edu apps
<ogra-classmate> yeah
<ogra-classmate> well, gutsy will fix it
<LaserJock> I think personally I'm for removing ubiquity from the LiveCD and calling it a Edubuntu Demo CD
<LaserJock> until the point where ubiquity can handle multiple CDs or we do a DVD
<ogra-classmate> i dont think there is an opportunity to change feisty
<ogra-classmate> gutsy will have it solved anyway
<pygi> hi folks
#edubuntu 2007-05-26
<LaserJock> hi pygi
<pygi> hey Laser
<pygi> how is it going?
<LaserJock> it's going
<LaserJock> sorry, was afk
<LaserJock> working on some Edubuntu stuff
<LaserJock> and research
<pygi> no problems
<LaserJock> pygi: how are you doing these days?
<pygi> LaserJock, pretty good, but very tired
<LaserJock> sounds like me :-)
<pygi> hehe
<Rob_> Hello to all
<Rob_> I just downloaded edubuntu, and I am trying to get it to run on my Dell Precision 530
<Rob_> It boots fine and then it stops and exits to a shell and says that it could not open the tty.
<Rob_> Any ideas?
<LaserJock> Rob_: which Edubuntu disk are you using?
<Rob_> 7.04 PCx86
<Rob_> Desktop
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I'm not great with the Desktop CDs
<LaserJock> they've always worked pretty fine for me
<LaserJock> are you wanting to install Edubuntu?
<Rob_> Sure. It may be that I have a bad disk
<LaserJock> you should be able to run the disk check when you boot the CD
<Rob_> It does the same thing with that\
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> that's no good
<LaserJock> you can do a checksum on the .iso
<LaserJock> that's the first place a disk can go wrong
<Rob_> It may be the disk.
<LaserJock> if that's ok then you can try reburning
<Rob_> I did the checksum and it is good
<LaserJock> ok
<Rob_> I will re-burn the disk
<Rob_> Can you burn the iso to a dvd?
<LaserJock> ok, so back to a previous question, are you wanting to install Edubuntu or just check it out?
<LaserJock> yes, you can
<Rob_> Check it out.
<Rob_> We homeschool, and I would like to see what it offers.
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I was homeschooled
<Rob_> bbiaf
<Rob_> i'm back
<Rob_> Laser: any ideas?
<LaserJock> well, you could try reburning
<Rob_> thanks--gotta go take care of the kids
<tristan_> anyone experience with a multiseat thin client setup in edubuntu?
<bronze> tristan_: aren't all LTSP setup inherently multi-seat?  or are you talking about multiple users per thin client?
<tristan_> i was talking about the last one
<tristan_> when I have to buy a PC for each client it doesn't make sense anymore to use thin clients ;p
<bronze> use the $139 units from devon IT
<Kamping_Kaiser> you dont need the whole pc, so it makes a fiar bit of sense in a lot of cases
<tristan_> well, I already have an old PC which may do the job
<tristan_> and it's capable to do multiseat things
<tristan_> but I want to use thin clients to gain more power (since the server has more CPU power)
<tristan_> and more memory
<bronze> then use that.  be aware it wont save you any money on pwer consumption.
<bronze> *power
<bronze> Unless you calculate power used per seat, which is a win.
<tristan_> but is it possible to make a multiseat thin client?
<tristan_> I buy some cables and a switch today anyway, to give it a try
<Kamping_Kaiser> i still dont get what multiseat means
<tristan_> multiple keyboards,monitors,mouses
<bronze> on a single CPU
<tristan_> yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh
<pinch150g> Is there anyone that has had experience installing on a Dell Precision 530 workstation?
<pinch150g> Anyone here?
<tristan_> can anyone tell me if it increase the quality of a thin client when it has 256MB instead of 64 of 128?
<tristan_> or 192
<tristan_> so
<tristan_> screwed my PC
<tristan_> :)
<nixternal> man, I had one hell of a funny comeback for that one :)
<nixternal> tristan_: what happened?
<tristan_> i took the dualhead videocard out of my pc
<tristan_> and put another old crappy PCI videocard in it
<tristan_> and removed the networkcard with bootrom
<tristan_> for one gigabit networkcard
<tristan_> so I can make a server of it
<tristan_> and can put the videocard in this one
<tristan_> and the networkcard in my thin client
<tristan_> but for some reason it causes some *beep beep*
<nixternal> well, you probably didn't screw it to bad...have you tried reconfiguring xorg?
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> so it doesn't get past bios
<tristan_> indeed
<tristan_> maybe I should connect the monitor to it
<nixternal> have you tried putting the old hardware back in to see if it goes away?
<tristan_> and a keyboard
<tristan_> and see what happens then
<tristan_> :P
<tristan_> my thin client doesn't work properly yet either
<nixternal> hrmm, possible to have the "halt on all errors" set in bios..but I didn't think that would cause beeps
<tristan_> since the videocard or the monitor isn't working
<tristan_> never had errors on any PC I builded
<tristan_> always were working immediately
<tristan_> except that time I forgot to put a fan on the CPU
<nixternal> ya, I have had luck with new builds, I tend to destroy systems when I decide to tear them down and clean them out :)
<tristan_> may I ask where you're from?
<nixternal> chicago unfortunately :)
<tristan_> do they have "give-away-stores" there?
<tristan_> or something like that?
<nixternal> I only wish...we do "give-aways" though at our lug meetings
<nixternal> there are some used pc places that I can usually get a good deal on stuff...older usually
<tristan_> nixternal: I'm setting up thin clients and stuff for a give-away-store now
<tristan_> and free internetspace
<nixternal> that rocks
<tristan_> and next week or so I want to fix a hotspot too
<nixternal> oh...I know what you mean by give-away-store now..ya we do have a couple in chicago actually
<tristan_> aah
<nixternal> some of the LUG guys and also Free Geek do the same
<tristan_> nice :)
<tristan_> what is LUG?
<tristan_> ohw wait
<tristan_> i know
<tristan_> :)
<tristan_> this is a squat btw
<tristan_> how common is squatting there?
<cbx33> hey all
<nixternal> hiya Petey
<cbx33> howz it going nixternal
<nixternal> how goeth the Python mastah!
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> yeh good
<cbx33> been getting up to some tricks
<cbx33> hehe :p
<nixternal> I have been learning Python and PyQt4 here lately
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> python just rocks doesn't it
<nixternal> I bought a few books that I have been skimming through and using hte Python documentation that is everywhere
<cbx33> the python docs I find a great resource
<nixternal> Python is nice...for some reason some of the syntax reminds me a little of VB
<cbx33> i like the whitespace reliance
<nixternal> oh yes
<cbx33> makes a messy coder like me write clean readable code
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I was using Eric to do some Python, but I think I am just to addicted to using Kate
* cbx33 isa gedit addict
<nixternal> well, you know I am rockin' the KDE :)
<nixternal> that is why I have stoked that Edubuntu will be featuring some KDE love finally :)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> that is pretty awesome
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<encompass> cbx33: have you tried scribes?  That one has some great progress.
<pygi> and I'm going to package it pretty soon :)
<pygi> encompass, ^_^
<encompass> pygi: sup sup
<encompass> pygi: oh I see ... cool thanks... not to hard to install strait, but we all know deb is the way to go
<jonathan_> Anyone willing to assist w/ an Edubuntu LTSP server setup?
<pygi> jonathan_, just ask
<pygi> encompass, yup ^_^
<pygi> encompass, should be done next week AFAIK
<jonathan_> setup has 2 nics one setup dhcp other defaulted to roaming...
<jonathan_> the clients don't see a dhcp server
<pygi> meh, we should write that somewhere (or did we already?)
<jonathan_> how should the second nic be setup?
<pygi> I think it's pretty common problem
<jonathan_> Do I have to change the dhcpd.conf for my setup?
<pygi> /opt/ltsp/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
<pygi> perhaps, or something
<jonathan_> So out of the box, with 2 nics installed, Edubuntu doesn't play...
<LaserJock> jonathan_: I think it's supposed to work out of the box
<LaserJock> but I'm not positive
<LaserJock> you might look in http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<tristan_> http://www.edubuntu.org/images/ltsp_inet.png <- it's the suggested config?
<jonathan_> tristan yes that's my setup
<tristan_> i want to use that setup to
<jonathan_> i setup eth1 as dhcp going out to the internets
<jonathan_> it did not ask me to setup eth0
<tristan_> but in my setup the server also gonna be the webserver voor chillispot
<jonathan_> so when i took a look at it in networking, it notated it was roaming
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm wondering about that
<jonathan_> Laserjock the documentation you gave does not tell you what to do w/ the second nic
<jonathan_> checking out some threads... it notates to put a nic at 192.168.0.1
#edubuntu 2007-05-27
<tristan_> so.. time to fix my social-inet-table-with-ubuntu-stickers(tm)
<tristan_> wrong chan
<tristan_> but for the persons interested
<tristan_> it's a table with both-sides(r) installed on it
<tristan_> oO
<tristan_> it always has a right side
<tristan_> so it's never turned backwards
<tristan_> invented it myself
<tristan_> I'm a genius
<tristan_> (:
<jonathan_> Ok having another issue w/ LTSP.  The client can get an ip and all is well there but eth1 (internet) will not connect to any website
<jonathan_> If I bring eth0 (dhcp server side) down I can then connect to the internets...
<jonathan_> any suggestions?
<Kamping_Kaiser> jonathan_, sounds like your eth0 and eth1 are using the same network space
<jonathan_> yes 192.168.0.101 is my internet interface eth1 and eth0 is 192.168.0.1 is the dhcp side
<Kamping_Kaiser> you have to change one
<jonathan_> so i should change to 192.168.1.x for internet side?
<Kamping_Kaiser> that would do
<jonathan_> ok excellent observation I will try this
<tristan_> you maybe have to change your routerconfig as well if your connected through one
<tristan_> or am I wrong?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, thats correct
<jonathan_> I don't plan on changing the client side address... that would require changing the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf correct?
<jonathan_> for the internet side I'm getting dhcp from a wireless router... for the client side I have a switch that's not connected to the router
<Kamping_Kaiser> so on the internet side, you need to change the dhcp server in the router, and you can leave the client side alone
<jonathan_> yes
<jonathan_> makes sense
<jonathan_> while I'm at... I opened the tcm and it notated I had to install x11vnc on the client to see that desktop... how do you do that?
<Kamping_Kaiser> tcm?
<jonathan_> um the terminal client manager i think
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, havent used that
<jonathan_> it's neat
<jonathan_> you can execute progs, send messages, blank screens, disconnect users
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll probably see it in the next LTS
<jonathan_> and somehow remote connect
<tristan_> is it also possible to monitor their desktop?
<jonathan_> yes... but look at my question above
<jonathan_> it's under system/administration/
<tristan_> i don't know an answer since I didn't install it yet, sorry :(
<jonathan_> no problem
<Kamping_Kaiser> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install x11vnc
<jonathan_> if i see yah again i'd let yah know how i got it to work ')
<Kamping_Kaiser> is iirc the command, but i'm not sure if it will do what you expect ;)
<jonathan_> I'll give that a go also
<jonathan_> I'm giving this ltsp setup a girl's home (troubled teen girls) any suggested apps?
<jonathan_> to a girl's home
<jonathan_> OK got the internets to work on the client side, thanks for the suggestion!
<jonathan_> but I cannot install x11vnc under chroot
<jonathan_> I copied my sources over to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
<jonathan_> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<jonathan_> apt-get update I get errors that it cannot find the repos
<jonathan_> I can't ping anything while I'm in chroot either
<jonathan_> suggestions?
<tristan_> ifup eth0 ?
<tristan_> without the `?' ofcourse
<jonathan_> ifup: failed to open statefile /var/run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory
<tristan_> maybe manual create /var/run/network ?
<jonathan_> eh
<tristan_> doesn't work?
<jonathan_> negative
<tristan_> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> jonathan_, you will (probably) have to bind in /proc and /dev
<jonathan_> sudo mount -t proc proc /opt/ltsp/i386/proc <- before I did this I couldn't see any interfaces under chroot
<Kamping_Kaiser> sudo mount --bind /proc /opt/ltsp/i386/proc
<Kamping_Kaiser> sudo mount --bind /dev /opt/ltsp/i386/dev
<Kamping_Kaiser> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
<Kamping_Kaiser> apt-get update
<jonathan_> ok did that
<jonathan_> still getting errors
<jonathan_> Err http://security.ubuntu.com feisty-security Release.gpg
<jonathan_>   Could not resolve 'security.ubuntu.com'
<jonathan_> can't ping anything under chroot either
<Kamping_Kaiser> anything in /dev/ or /proc?
<jonathan_> under chroot?
<jonathan_> yes in chroot there is
<Kamping_Kaiser> what does ifconfig return?
<jonathan_> all my interfaces correctly
<jonathan_> shall I restart? LOL
<Kamping_Kaiser> i ran the 3 commands i gave you, and i can ping out of my chroot
<jonathan_> interesting
<jonathan_> let me restart
<jonathan_> Ok I can ping within my network but not out
<jonathan_> eth0 192.168.0.1 - dhcp server
<jonathan_> eth1 192.168.1.1 - internet side
<jonathan_> I can ping both of those interfaces and also any other interface on the 192.168.1.x side
<jonathan_> and I can also ping anything having a 192.168.0.x addy
<Kamping_Kaiser> so you can ping the router but not the internet?
<jonathan_> I think I've got it... dns isn't working under chroot
<jonathan_> i can ping google
<jonathan_> google's ip excuse me
<jonathan_> it's gotta be dns in the chroot
<jonathan_> Of course I wouldn't even know where to start to fix that, being the noob I am
<sbalneav> Evening all
<tristan_> /etc/resolv.conf
<tristan_> it should contain something like `nameserver 0.0.0.0
<tristan_> where 0.0.0.0 should be the ip adress of the dns server ofcourse
<tristan_> without the `
<jonathan_> excellent it was wrong thanks!
<jonathan_> this channel rocks thanks for all the help Kamping and tristan
<tristan_> this was the first time i helped
<tristan_> normally I talk to much and give bad advise
<jonathan_> lol
<jonathan_> you did well
<jonathan_> well if this issue comes up again you got it
<tristan_> do you maybe know someone with a chaintech zenith 7njs motherboard?
<tristan_> the manual isn't available on the website anymore
<tristan_> and i've lost it
<tristan_> and it's giving an error on it's frontpanel
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav, how's it going?
<sbalneav> Not bad. Working hard.
<sbalneav> Spawning ssh from a C program is hard. :(
<pygi> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey pygi
<pygi> how is it going? :)
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<pygi> LaserJock, ^_^
<cbx33> yeh good thanks
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> howz it going people
<pygi> pretty good, thanks :)
<cbx33> just hacking around with gstreamer
<pygi> hehe =)
<pygi> what new are you preparing this time? ;)
<cbx33> just working on vcs-frenzy
<pygi> ah, why do you need gst then? o.O
<cbx33> on one computer I have it seems to hog all sound
<cbx33> audio notifications of repo changes ;)
<pygi> ah :P
<cbx33> but when I just test it here
<pygi> will one be able to turn it off? :P
<cbx33> it doesn't seem to have an issue
<cbx33> it's totally configurable
<pygi> great ^
<cbx33> it's of by default
<pygi> ^_^
<pygi> smart move :p
<cbx33> you can choose a generic sound
<cbx33> or a repo specific one
<cbx33> up to you
<pygi> got it
<fargiolas> hi maybe i'm doing something wrong: i've installed edubuntu on a virtual machine (3 hours of installation) and now i was looking for scientific programs but there is no one of these mentioned on the web page
<fargiolas> do i have to install everything from repositories?
<fargiolas> if yes i can do it even with standard ubuntu.. what's the difference with edubuntu? it's just a ltsp ready ubuntu?
<fargiolas> anybody in?
<fargiolas> no answer? so is there no educative software on edubuntu cd?
<ogra-classmate> the edu software is on the educational addon cd, if you use the two cd set you will have it
<ogra-classmate> and its on the demo desktop of the livecd which due to technical restrictions of the livecd installer isnt able to install it
<fargiolas> ogra-classmate: i've got the cd shipped by launchpad ship-it service
<ogra-classmate> yeah, thst the server CD
<ogra-classmate> i thought it tells you about the addon CD on the inside
<fargiolas> why don't they shi p the live cd as demo-cd from shipt?
<fargiolas> it says nothing about addon :(
<fargiolas> and it took 3 hours to install on a virtual machine :(
<ogra-classmate> because the major amount of our users wants to set up a classroom server in areas where you barely have power, not to talk about bandwith
<ogra-classmate> the server stuff doesnt5 fit on the livecd
<ogra-classmate> its way to small
<tristan_> question: how do I partition my HDD, since I'm used to make different directories with different mountoptions...
<tristan_> and it looks like edubuntu is storing a lot under /opt
<ogra-classmate> neither can we ship a DVD because the majority of users doesnt even have a DVD reader (or writer for downloading)
<fargiolas> ogra-classmate: i just wanted to show educational software to my mother (a primary school teacher).. do you suggest to download the live cd?
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: about 400meg for the thin client system... if you dont want to try or use ltsp, pick a workstation install in the menu
<tristan_> i want to use ltsp
<ogra-classmate> fargiolas: for just showing it, yes, thats what the livecd is for
<tristan_> but the thin client is using the environment under /opt/ltsp/i386?
<ogra-classmate> right
<fargiolas> thanks
<tristan_> so I have just to make mountpoints under it, like /opt/ltsp/i386/tmp like I always did with /tmp on my workstations?
<ogra-classmate> fargiolas: we'll optimize all that fgor gutsy, its our first release with two cds
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: no, dont touch whats under /opt/ltsp
<tristan_> hmmz
<fargiolas> ogra-classmate: will the be shipped both by launchpad shipit?
<ogra-classmate> if you change anything in there it will break the client boot
<tristan_> so I can't harden it's temp directory a bit with the mount options noexec,nosuid,nodev
<tristan_> and have to allow users to fill the root with there temporary crap?
<ogra-classmate> fargiolas: we're still discussing that with our marketing team, shipping two cds is significantly more expensive
<fargiolas> i understand
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: you would have to hack up the ltsp scripts for that
<tristan_> why?
<ogra-classmate> the filesystems a thin client uses are all in ram
<tristan_> if i create mountpoints it's just working as asual i thought
<tristan_> hmmz
<ogra-classmate> and handled very special
<tristan_> so they don't touch the hdd?
<ogra-classmate> there is nothing you could "harden"
<tristan_> dont really get it :P
<tristan_> the thinclients load the stuff under /opt/ltsp/i386 in their memory?
<ogra-classmate> yes
<ogra-classmate> well, what they do is the following:
<ogra-classmate> boot the kernel, mount the initramfs, mount an nfsroot (radonly) from the server ...
<ogra-classmate> then make temporary directories and files in ram for the rw stuff
<ogra-classmate> then bind or move mount them over the redonly files
<ogra-classmate> *readonly
<tristan_> like a livecd?
<ogra-classmate> so the system has all files it needs in rw mode to boot, start X and ldm but nothing more ....
<ogra-classmate> right
<tristan_> and where do the users store their files?
<ogra-classmate> well, a livecd operates simpler by using unionfs
<ogra-classmate> which doesnt work on nfs mounts
<tristan_> or can't they store their files?
<ogra-classmate> users arent related with thin clients at all
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> :)
<ogra-classmate> ldm logs you in on the se5rvers desktop ... the thin client is only the underlying tech
<ogra-classmate> imagine a thin client as an additional set of monitor, mouse,keyboard, speaker and usbhub
<tristan_> i did imagine it as a multiseat system
<ogra-classmate> (you wuldnt try to "harden" the garphics card drivers of your desktop, would you ?) :)
<tristan_> hehe
<tristan_> no
<ogra-classmate> multiseat is the above via a physical pci card, ltsp is the same over ethernet
<ogra-classmate> (with pc hardware instead of teh pci card)
<tristan_> what does the installer means with primary network interface?
<tristan_> the uplink or my lan?
<ogra-classmate> the default gw to the internet
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> :)
<tristan_> i was wondering about that since the primary purpose of that system is to play a server for my lan ;p
<ogra-classmate> yeah, we need to reword that part of the installer, youre not the first to complain
<tristan_> I did choose for the internet though, since I need that for the packagemanager
<ogra-classmate> right
<tristan_> but do you think it's a good plan to use edubuntu for a internetcafe?
<ogra-classmate> indeed it is
<ogra-classmate> :)
<tristan_> unfortently I don't have Edubuntu stickers
<tristan_> :P
<ogra-classmate> juliux sells them iirc
<tristan_> how expensive are they?
<tristan_> or how cheap
<tristan_> how much do they cost i mean
<ogra-classmate> no idea
<tristan_> it's a shame their isn't a ubuntu store with flags and posters and stuff
<juliux> tristan_, normaly we take 0.50 for one sticker
<juliux> tristan_, without shipping
<ogra-classmate> there is a cafepress store with ubuntu stuff
<tristan_> how do they looklike?
<tristan_> ogra-classmate: do you have a link?
<ogra-classmate> nope
<ogra-classmate> but i know there is one
<juliux> tristan_, i am searching for the link
<tristan_> i found it already
* ogra-classmate doesnt have any links on the classmate :)
<ogra-classmate> my bookmarks are on another system
<juliux> ogra-classmate, open synaptic install unison, and sync your systems;)
<ogra-classmate> juliux: well, the classmate only has 1GIG for userdata
<ogra-classmate> my evolution folder alone is 2 gig
<juliux> tristan_, http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch_2_Stickers/poweredbyedubuntu.svg
<juliux> ogra, oh, but you can use nfs;)
<ogra-classmate> plus 40-50 gig of package builds and development stuff pls several gig of iso builds
<ogra-classmate> indeed, but i'M testing the classmate, that would be cheating
<ogra-classmate> ;)
<tristan_> juliux: those edubuntu letters don't fit?
<tristan_> or did I screw something on my PC?
<tristan_> wait.. i try again
<stgraber> tristan_: I guess you don't have the font
<tristan_> i think so
<stgraber> sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
<stgraber> I think that's the one they are using
<ogra-classmate> yup
<tristan_> juliux: looks nice
<tristan_> how do I order those stickers?
<juliux> tristan_, where are you from?
<tristan_> the netherlands
<juliux> tristan_, perfect
<juliux> tristan_, i will send some shirts to seveas the next weeks so i can send the sticker with the shirts together so shipping is cheaper
<tristan_> how can I pay for it?
<juliux> tristan_, paypal or banktransfer
<tristan_> can you mail me your paypal details?
<tristan_> then I upgrade my paypal balance and send you the money
<tristan_> banktransfer takes more time since I have to call my bank for that
<tristan_> my bank is very oldfashioned
<tristan_> they are also closed after 23:00 online
<juliux> lol
<juliux> tristan_, it is ok for you if i send the stickert to seveas and he can send you the stickers then
<juliux> tristan_, i think it s cheaper
<tristan_> it's ok
<juliux> how much stickers you want?
<tristan_> how much do I have to pay for 5 stickers?
<juliux> 2
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> I take 5
<tristan_> do you have more promotional stuff?
<juliux> not for edubuntu
<juliux> only for ubuntu
<tristan_> like what?
<juliux> http://ubuntu.juliux.de/shirt/polo.jpg these polo and t-shirts
<juliux> and the rest of the sticker series;)
<juliux> for the shirts also see http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/topic/9501
<tristan_> I have sended you the money with paypal
<tristan_> if you need more just ask
<juliux> tristan_, i will say seveas that i send him some stickers for you
<tristan_> ok
<juliux> tristan_, can you pls send me your address to jbloch@edubuntu.org
<tristan_> sure
<tristan_> done
<juliux> thxs
<tristan_> yeah.. I screwed the installer :)
<tristan_> stupid partitioner was acting like a peace of crap
<tristan_> :P
<tristan_> somehow he didn't want to mount /dev/hdb1 at /home/tristan
<tristan_> like he always did
<tristan_> and after a few times trying nothing in the installationmenu was working
<tristan_> :)
<tristan_> I love it how easy things become complicated
<tristan_> and no it's not sarcasm
<tristan_> strange
<tristan_> the installer can't mount /dev/hdb1 at /home/tristan
<tristan_> but it always did
<tristan_> and I'm able to mount it by hand too
<tristan_> so I didn't screw that partition or something
<tristan_> hmmz
<tristan_> wtf
<tristan_> my fresh installed system gives an grub error 18
<tristan_> strange things happening today
<ace_> hi ya
<ace_> Lazy Sunday Afternoon !?
<ace_> inxstall x11vnc on the client ?
<ace_> cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
<ace_> ping ogra
<ace_> How can I add or react to the edubuntu community pages ?
<tristan_> yeah
<tristan_> my thin client is working
<tristan_> except a small kernel panic
<tristan_> :P
<tristan_> have to fix that
<tristan_> but since it doesn't have a specific task I can say it's working
<tristan_> :)
<tristan2> so
<tristan2> my thin client is working
<tristan2> still don't know where that kernelpanic came from
<tristan2> wtf
<tristan2> fuck the partitioner in the install
<tristan2> it said something about not using /dev/hdb1 so I espected it to don't touch it
<tristan2> and don't create mountpoints for it
<tristan2> well.. that last one he didn't do
<tristan2> but it dropped my partitiontable :(
<tristan2> but my thin client is working :)
<Sleepy_Coder> brb. :p
<tristan2> ohw djzs
<tristan2> i needed coffee
<tristan2> wtf
<tristan2> made a fat typo with cfdisk
<tristan2> :P
<tristan2> partitiontable is still their
<tristan2> but I can't mount it
<ace_> can anyone explain to me who denemo don't work, or how to get it working ?
<ace_> anyone can tell me how to get denemo working ?
<Burgundavia> what doesnt work?
<cbx33> denemo had a lot of bugs last time i saw it
<ace_> the sound dont work
<ace_> at all
<cbx33> i think i filed about 4 bugs
<ace_> cbx33: did you get it to make sound at least ?
<cbx33> no
<ace_> I don't understand why these packages are included
<cbx33> i don't know why this one was
<ace_> well after I installed timidity, it works
<cbx33> heheh
<tristan_> someone knows why I cant mount my partition as ext3, but I can mount it as ext2?
<tristan_> do I have to run fsck, or what?
#edubuntu 2008-05-19
<emercado> johhny: achandrashekar here..thanks for help with ltsp issues. I re-installed the 64 bit version...flash working..working now on java...thanks again as dhcp issues are resolved now..must have been a bad install
<emercado> :)
<emercado> yeah! java now working as well
<emercado> sweet.
<Comete> hi
<Comete> i've a strange problem with umask value
<Comete> i've set it in /etc/profile and /etc/login.defs but nautilus doesn't use it
<Comete> if i create a directory or a file in the terminal it works, but not in nautilus
<Comete> i use Edubuntu 8.04
<Comete> any idea ?
<sysadmin> anyone: i have a disabled printer, how can i restart? cupsenable asks for a password i can't seem to set...
<chris_new> hi  right now i am useing the desktop ver of ubntu and i was wondering how can i make it into a web server and email server
<Comete> hi
#edubuntu 2008-05-20
<mr_sukor> help
<rolando-ve> Hi!
<rolando-ve> I have a question, if anybody can answer it I'll so glad
<rolando-ve> I have in my hands a Classmate PC (intel) and I wanna install on it Edubuntu, where and how can I find an Image or create my image?
<rolando-ve> May I use the UME (moblin-image-creator) to create an Image?
<rolando-ve> exist any kind of tool to create this images?
<rolando-ve> We have a channel (on irc) to talk about classmate pc?
<rolando-ve> Is anyone reading?
<bimberi> rolando-ve: ogra (who will probably join this channel in a few hours) is working on a Classmate PC edition.
<bimberi> His latest daily builds are here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/8.04/
<rolando-ve>  ï»¿bimberi: Thanks!
<primary> Good morning, last night we updated our system to Hardy Heron and now our user profiles are acting up. The symptoms are: usernames entered, passwords entered, but then we are kicked back to username, after waiting +- a minute. It's the same behaviour as if we were inputting the incorrect password. which we have triple checked. Please help...desperate teacher and upset learners.
<johnny> did you rebuild your chroot ?
<primary> Please explain
<primary> We only did an update
<johnny> you should backup your /opt/ltsp/i386
<johnny> and then run ltsp-build-client --arch i386
<johnny> you should just mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386bak
<johnny> or whatever name you like
<johnny> and then run ltsp-build-client --arch i386
<johnny> you should do that after every distro upgrade
<primary> Thank you infinitely
<johnny> i can't say that will fix it
<primary> Well I'm going to give it a bash
<johnny> it is the first thing you should do
<johnny> i know it fixed problems for me
<johnny> so.. come back after you try
<johnny> primary, check your private messages
<primary> Run into a wall, am going to get help, I'll let you know what worked. Thanks again.
<Comete> hi
<Comete> any user of edubuntu as server in production ?
<Comete> anyone using edubuntu on a server for desktop clients ?
<gbolte> !seen ogra
<gbolte> :/
#edubuntu 2008-05-21
<primary> hiya all, we have a weird problem we upgraded and now all users are not able to login
<cjsstables> Hey all.  I have install 8.04 server with ltsp but my client cannot boot from lan.  It gets the IP address ok but cannot get files.  Can anyone help
<LL01> hello
<LL01> edubuntu 8.04 it's only add on now?
<ogra_> yes, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
<LL01> I got error about dhcpd after building ltsp client
<LL01> then now no dhcp tfpd an lstp running
<LL01> install form alternative 8.04
<LL01> because it was dhclient when installing 8.04?
<LL01> how to fix ip during 8.04 installation
<novica> hi, is there any list of applications that I can add to ubuntu to get edubuntu?
<shawnp0wers> Sorry for the crosspost:  I do a shoutout to edubuntu in my recent Linux Journal video: http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/buntu-family-theater
<cberl1> Hi folks.  Can anyone help with a i810 video problem in Dapper?
<johnny> too old..
<cberl1> johnny: Yes, but stable and (up until now) working very well in our environment... :)
<johnny> the i810 driver has been updated dramatically
<johnny> very few people are going to be able to truly help what is really an x problem most likely
<cberl1> johnny: Ah, I see.  And that didn't get backported to dapper?
<johnny> no
<johnny> they are features
<johnny> and really disruptive
<johnny> since it only works with newer xorg
<johnny> start doing that.. and you're up to hardy already
<cberl1> Right.  I wanted to avoid something quite that disruptive.  This server is probably on it's way out anyway.
<johnny> backporting is nearly impossible this far out imo
<cberlo> Then any ideas?  Got a whack of Dell GX100s being used at thin clients that suddenly only work intermittently at doing so.  Half the time, they come up with "i810_wait_ring" errors, half the time they work perfectly fine...
<johnny> sorry no
<johnny> it's too old
<cberlo> As you've mentioned.  :(
<johnny> perhaps somebody else does
<cberlo> Where's that Oli fella?
<johnny> i bite the bullet and upgrade ever time.. as the world is changing too fast
<johnny> me personally..  (not being a member of ubuntu team or canonical)
<johnny> i think it's nearly impossible to stabilize stuff atm
<johnny> stable just means old to me
<johnny> and unfixable, since no upstream devs will support you
<cberlo> Maybe I can get auth to upgrade this beast...  The i810 driver's been worked on a lot, has it?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> still bein updated
<cberlo> acceleration enabled?
<johnny> haven't tried it
<johnny> on thin clients that is
<cberlo> Okay, guess I'll have to report my findings....
<johnny> but it had accel on my laptop
<johnny> the only finding you should report
<johnny> is that you shouldn't stick with old stuff, unless you have a support contract
<johnny> because nobody upstream will support you
<johnny> uggh
<johnny> i wasn't done
<cberlo> sorry - you were saying...?
<johnny> if you don't have a support contract, it's really hard to find anybody to help you
<cberlo> Ah, yeah, that too.
<johnny> since the majority of the most helpful folks are running newer stuff
<johnny> and the upstream developers won't support stuff that has releases that fix the bugs
<cberlo> Other than vesa, is there another generic driver that would support my situation?
<johnny> there are only 2 options . i810 or vesa
<cberlo> Hmmm...  how about acceleration in vesa?  Only doing 2D stuff...
<johnny> either specific.. or generic
<johnny> don't think so
<johnny> that's why it's vesa
<cberlo> k
<johnny> the bare minimum
<cberlo> I try.  :)
<cberlo> Vesa works, just not very well.
<johnny> you can always just drop a new machine in there for testing
<johnny> or setup a vm for it
<johnny> installing hardy + ltsp packages + generating chroot.. will only take an hour or two
<johnny> on a decent machine
<cberlo> No, I can't.  I don't get that luxury.  Tight budget, and they want to can this setup as is.  Basically, they wanted Windows Terminal Server; that cost too much so they went LTSP w/WINE.  NOT a good substitute, but for most uses it worked pretty well.
<johnny> they are dumb
<cberlo> Yep, that was my assessment.
<johnny> can't get good support for free on old stuff
<johnny> tell them to get a support contract
<johnny> otherwise it wont' be solved
<johnny> unless you have somebody who really wants to spend alot of time helping you figure it out
<cberlo> Originally, the GX100s ran Win98 -- enough to do what they were asking to do, but then there's the individual clients they'd need to keep on top of, and when you add in all the software that secures Win98 (relatively) it slows down too much to be of any real use...
<cberlo> Well, suppose I'll beg and plead to upgrade the server OS and see what happens.  Thanks.
<johnny> how are they gonna can this setup.. if they ..
#edubuntu 2008-05-22
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<LivingByPlan> I am in desperate need of assistance.
<LivingByPlan> I am in West Africa with a very poor internet connection so I am not able to do all the research I would like on my own.
<LivingByPlan> I need some assistance in knowing how to upgrade from Edubuntu 7.04 to Edubuntu 8.04 without reinstalling from the CD.
<LivingByPlan> Is there an upgrade path?
<LivingByPlan> Sorry if I have posted to the wrong group but finding the right one is difficult from here.
<johnny> uhmm.. you should be able to upgrade in the distro itself?
<johnny> via the update manager
<LivingByPlan> Please, how do I make it look at the CD, or at another location, rather than going to the Internet to find the updates?
<bimberi> LivingByPlan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
<bimberi> LivingByPlan: Note that the strongly recommended upgrade path is from 7.04->7.10 then 7.10->8.04
<LivingByPlan> Thanks I will take a look at this site.
<LivingByPlan> I would follow that route, but still need to know how to make the upgrades without downloading the same files over and over from the internet on many computers.
<LivingByPlan> Thanks for the tip.
<johnny> LivingByPlan, you could setup one computer to serve up all the files to others
<LivingByPlan> I am new to linux and to Ubuntu so need more information on how to do this.
<LivingByPlan> If anyone has available documentation for upgrading and would care to do so, they could email it to me at david.perry.ghana@gmail.com.
<LivingByPlan> I would appreciate the assistance very much.
<stgraber> ogra_: How was yesterday's discussion with intel guys ?
<ogra_> ah, well
<ogra_> lots of HW changes ahead
<stgraber> so lot of work to make all that working ?
<ogra_> indeed
<ogra_> i'll be in shanghaithe firts week of july to discuss software stuff
<stgraber> then fly to Portland ? busy month :)
<ogra_> inbetween there is the distro sprint as well
<ogra_> i'm ctually travelling 3 of 4 weeks
<stgraber> oh, so one flight to London too :) very busy month
<ogra_> well, actually a flight to london and moving on to portland
<RichEd> stgraber: was that content server info okay ?
<RichEd> i'm about to check your presentation
<stgraber> well, I can probably make a slide from that, the main problem is that I never used moodle myself except on their demo website :)
<RichEd> stgraber: let me send you a moodle presentation as well ... you will be able to get some high leve info off that
<stgraber> cool
<RichEd> stgraber: sented the mail
<stgraber> RichEd: thanks
<RichEd> stgraber: cool ... that is quite a nice presentation ... hope it goes well for youi
<monteslu_> ogra, you around?
<monteslu_> anyone else ?
<monteslu_> my terminals are getting kicked out upon login
<monteslu_> just started happening yesterday
<stgraber> can you define "kicked out" please ?
<stgraber> authentication error ?
<monteslu_> dont think so, but its possible
<monteslu_> i log in, then black screen, then Â¨xÂ¨, then back to login screen
<monteslu_> its ubuntu 7.04
<monteslu_> edubuntu
<monteslu_> i can log into the server without problem
<monteslu_> actually 2 servers against an openldap server
<stgraber> ok, I was thinking of the recent ssl/ssh security bug, did you do the security update recently ?
<monteslu_> no, i havent
<stgraber> ok, because that'll likely create new ssh keys and needs a ltsp-update-sshkeys
<stgraber> so if you haven't it's probably something else
<monteslu_> OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1.4, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep 2006
<monteslu_> thatÅ the version im on
<monteslu_> is there any way to test if thatÅ out of sync?
<stgraber> ok, it's the broken one, so it's not the issue but you should do the security upgrade anyway
<stgraber> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-612-2
<monteslu_> i probably dont have time to fix that part this morning, can do the ssh update this evening
<monteslu_> any other way to tell why the terminals arent connecting?
<stgraber> if it's an issue when starting gnome you may have some debug informations in the .xsession-errors file in the user home dir
<monteslu_> just tried the startkde session and got the same result
<monteslu_> black screen, x, then back to login
<stgraber> ok, you could try to do this :
<stgraber> start a standard workstation in a failsafe X session (so only a terminal)
<stgraber> start : ssh -X user@server
<stgraber> then start : gnome-session or the KDE equivalent
<stgraber> that's basically what LDM does so it may helps you debug the issue
<monteslu_> whole bunch of pulseaudio errors
<monteslu_> and stuff like: ** (nm-applet:6732): WARNING **: <WARNING>       nma_dbus_init (): nma_dbus_init() could not acquire its service.  dbus_bus_acquire_service() says: 'Connection ":1.15" is not allowed to own the service "org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo" due to security policies in the configuration file'
<stgraber> and that makes the session to crash and restart ?
<stgraber> it's supposed to be only a warning (the thin clients have pulse correctly set up)
<monteslu_> im not sure, was that supposed to fire up another instance of gnome locally?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> that's what ldm does, connect using ssh -X (X redirection) and start gnome-session
<monteslu_> could you give me that command again?
<monteslu_> trying it from kde to start gnome-session
<stgraber> ssh -X user@server
<stgraber> then : gnome-session
<stgraber> I guess ldm uses /etc/X11/Xsession or something similar but the result is supposed to be the same
<monteslu_> that worked
<monteslu_> gnome is running on top of kde
<monteslu_> kinda wierd
<stgraber> ok, so your problem is related to your thin client/ltsp chroot then
<monteslu_> any idea how to troublshoot that?
<monteslu_> i dont even know where to look
<monteslu_> stuff was easier for me to understand in ltsp 4 :)
<stgraber> Ubuntu 7.04 is still NFS or already NBD ?
<monteslu_> dont know
<monteslu_> im using nfs for the homes
<monteslu_> but thats on a fedora server
<stgraber> ls -lh /opt/ltsp/images/
<stgraber> that will fail if it's using nfs
<monteslu_> yeah, no such directory
<stgraber> ok, can you do : ltsp-update-sshkeys and try again with a client
<stgraber> I don't think it'll fix anything as you haven't done the security update but maybe another reason made the ssh keys to be out of sync
<monteslu_> that worked!
<monteslu_> should i do that from both of my ltsp servers?
<stgraber> I think so yes
<stgraber> (can't hurt anyway)
<monteslu_> hmm, didnt fix the second box, but at least the lab is up now :)
<monteslu_> and i can go to work
<monteslu_> wish i could be at the school full time
<monteslu_> thanks for the help!
<stgraber> np
<sixty6murph> hi, is edubuntu designed specifically for a teacher/pupil environment or is it suitable for unsupervised, undirected home use?
<sixty6murph> i want to set up an old machine for a 6 and 8 year old to use by themselves...
<johnny> edubuntu is just an addon cd now
<johnny> you can use ubuntu and add the same packages on the internet
 * litlebuda allom ppl
 * litlebuda allom ppl
#edubuntu 2008-05-23
<stgraber> RichEd: you around ?
<RichEd> stgraber: sort of
<RichEd> wassup ?
<stgraber> I just wondered if I can talk a bit about the cmpc in a "things to come" part of the talk ?
<RichEd> sure ... it is all public knowledge
<RichEd> check out the cmpc page on the wiki
<stgraber> looking now. It's not always easy to know what's publicly announced and what's not, for example the UME, the development was public but it wasn't a good idea to speak about it publicly (as people would perhaps expect features that would then be dropped)
<stgraber> RichEd: oh, Intel releases the cmpc2 specs ?
 * stgraber wonders why he never saw that announce :)
<wima> does anyone know if ldm does something with umask settings?
<wima> if i log in on an ltsp client, my umask is always 022
<wima> but i set it to 002 in /etc/profile and /etc/login.defs
<stgraber> wima: what's the umask when you ssh to the server ?
<wima> 002
<stgraber> ok, so either something in ldm does (I don't really see how or why) or the Xsession script changes the umask for some weird reason
<wima> ah Xsession
<wima> can that be?
<stgraber> maybe, IIRC ldm calls Xsession to start the gnome session
<wima> i see no references to umask in the xsession.d files
<cberlo> Has anyone tried running Edubuntu LTSP through FastHubs?
<humbolt> Hi all, I have a huge problem with processes left over after logout on my LTSP system!
<humbolt> As I also see this behavior on my laptop, I am afraid this might be a general Gnome problem! Just that it does not really break things when you basically reboot your laptop after each reboot!
<johnny> it is a general known problem
<johnny> err gnome problem
<humbolt> Do you guys experience this as well.
<johnny> gnome doesnt' clean up after itself
<humbolt> johnny: Damn Gnome!
<johnny> cuz it's usually used on systems that are single user in truth.. so when gnome shuts down, all is ok
<johnny> but for us.. with processes running on the server.. it's not acting like a normal computer in that when you log out, it's turned off
<johnny> so not much focus was put into that
<humbolt> So what should I do on my LTSP system?
<johnny> it is going to be fixed tho
<humbolt> It is?
<johnny> there's something called gnome-watchdog
<johnny> i don't know if it is compatible with gnome 2.22 which is in hardy
<johnny> you might want to take a look at it
<johnny> or a program called xterminator
<johnny> my clients never logoff, they are all anonymous terminals
<humbolt> What are these Gnome guys thinking?
<johnny> so i just run a script
<humbolt> The have so much crap in their system.
<johnny> i disagree
<humbolt> The worst thing ever is freaking evolution!
<johnny> they have great stuff
<johnny> it's not as well used as it could be
<humbolt> The alarm daemon does hardly ever shutdown cleanly
<johnny> which makes some stuff less useful than it could be
<johnny> as i said humbolt, their normal use case to be concerned about, are single user systems, which which none of this is a problem
<humbolt> I am already considering switching my users back to KDE.
<johnny> you could set /etc/xdg/autostart
<johnny> look in their and turn off evolution
<humbolt> johnny: did that already
<humbolt> johnny: still many unclosed processes
<johnny> i know , it doenst solve everything
<johnny> but i won't swich away from gnome for this isssue
<johnny> and i won't/cant' ever support kde
<humbolt> the worst are game and firefox processes left over and going mad.
<johnny> firefox rarely does that to me
<johnny> since hardy
<johnny> firefox behaves much better in 3.0 series
<johnny> games.. that's a problem with them, not gnome
<humbolt> It sucks so much. I can't watch over this LTSP server 24/7
<johnny> then script it
<johnny> to kill things
<johnny> like the two things i mentioned
<humbolt> Would not know where to begin. kill everything that does not belong to anybody who shows up in `users`?
<johnny> use the scripts i mentioned
<johnny> go search for em
<humbolt> on it
<humbolt> And you say, they are working on fixing that?
<humbolt> Really?
<humbolt> Just filed 2 bug reports today. One launchpad one gnome.
<humbolt> reading up on gnome-watchdog
<humbolt> hope it does not kill things, when a user is logged in twice and logs out at one terminal
<johnny> logged in twice is not good for gnome
<johnny> don't do that
<johnny> or firefox
<rv> Hello! Is it possible to set up Edubuntu LTSP server if I have one eth0 interface to connect client, and connected to i-net through USB ADSL-modem (using ubudsl)? How should I configure eth0 interface during installation?
<humbolt> johnny: Especially the gvfsd procs tend to stay alive.
<humbolt> johnny: I installed gnome-watchdog now. We will see if it works. Thanks for the tip.
<lns> humbolt, johnny, Just to add to the conversation and give no actual help/support for it... ;) I really think that the Gnome devs need to get back to the roots of what Linux/*nix is *supposed* to be about - which are things like what LTSP is all about - thin-clients, multiuser systems, network portable environments
<lns> I think Gnome is an absolutely fantastic environment, but they are straying way too far from *nix roots
<lns> which is causing big problems when we try to do things like LTSP/multi-user systems
<lns> not that I can do anything about it but bitch and complain.. ;) (until I have enough money to hire a programmer to help fix these things anyway)
<lns> I just don't want to see others follow the trend of only caring about single-user systems...because I really do believe (and I'm sure most of the people in here do too) that computing in general is moving back toward server-centric processing (like in the dumb terminal days)
<lns> only now we can do so much more
<johnny> gnome is going to make it easier for us to do things supposably
<johnny> with consolekit/policykit
#edubuntu 2008-05-24
<scoopede> how to backup the entire /?
<mcfloppy> hello
<mcfloppy> i try to setup pulse audio, but everytime it fails... main.c read() failed: File or Directory not found
<neil_d> I have a motherboard I would like to use for a thin-client it can do a PXE boot (by hitting F12), but I can set it up to auto-boot from the network :( I was wondering if I attached a HHD if I can put something on it to get it to do a network boot, like you can with the floppies ?
<mcfloppy> neil_d,  are u shure you cant add the network to the bootqueue
<neil_d> mcfloppy: yes, I have looked, it is a strange bios.
<mcfloppy> ok
<neil_d> If it can be done I was thinking of useing a CF to HHD adapter.
<mcfloppy> i would simply insert a pxe network cad :)
<mcfloppy> or install grub on a cf card...
<neil_d> mcfloppy: can grub be setup to do a PXE boot ?
<mcfloppy> yes
<mcfloppy> http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/PXE_FAQ
<neil_d> are that looks like the key, thanks mcfloppy
<mcfloppy> go to 4. PXE Capable Bootloader
<neil_d> I will look at that, found also http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/GRUB_PXE_network_boot
<mcfloppy> ok
<mcfloppy> try and report :)
<neil_d> mcfloppy: I got it to work :)
<mcfloppy> neil_d, great :)
<mcfloppy> now have fun
<mcfloppy> hrhr
<mcfloppy> my pulseaudio now also works
<neil_d> mcfloppy: good!   its fairly easy, use rom-o-matic to create a .zlilo file, point the grub 'kernel' option at the file and your away :)
<mcfloppy> hehe
<mcfloppy> nice
#edubuntu 2008-05-25
<humbolto> How can I debug ltspfs?
<humbolto> I would like to check dmesg on the terminals but as there is no NIS or LDAP in place I can't login to the terminal itself.
<humbolto> In hardy I should not have to enable ltspfs seperately, right? it is enabled by default.
<humbolto> I can see floppies by the way, but no usb drives.
<humbolto> ogra: how can I debug ltspfs?
#edubuntu 2009-05-18
<Svenstaro> Guys, you know what, there are so many questiosn for Edubunu development, I must just go ahead and create my own Education distro now and everybody who wants to can join in.
<nubae> greets Lns, alkisg
<alkisg> Hey nubae, what's up? :)
<nubae> highvoltage too :-)
<nubae> ah,  just came back from Sugar Camp
<nubae> in Paris
<nubae> it was an amazing experience
<nubae> so much wonderful enthusiasm and energy
<nubae> if we could do something like that for edubuntu, it would really drive the community up again
<highvoltage> hey nubae
<highvoltage> nubae: awesome, we will certainly ahve to take you up on that
<alkisg> I don't think it's enthusiasm that edubuntu lacks, but specific goals... :(
<alkisg> I'd be happy to help/contribute however I can if it became a distro again.
<nubae> alkisg: I hear u
<nubae> as u know, I've been using opensuse-edu, and to be honest, at this point its run circles around edubuntu
<nubae> sadly
<nubae> and in every possible way too
<nubae> I mean, sugar doesnt even run on ubuntu anymore... on opensuse, not only does it run, but every activitiy works and is packaged
<alkisg> Yeah... and I love their live dvd
<nubae> by the way, if u are interested, we are having a meeting in #sugar concerning what we're doing on opensuse in about 6 minutes
<alkisg> It even has scratch and kde_edu apps on it... If edubuntu was something similar, many people would be using it
<alkisg> I'm not really familiar with sugar... I'll come just to have a look :)
<nubae> yes indeed, and its got total nomad, AOE support, Sugar support, tons of edu apps, LDAP in very few steps, pretty much every service gui'd and working
<nubae> its just a delight to work with
<nubae> if it had deb packages it would be perfect
<alkisg> Have you put it in any "producation" sites?
<alkisg> *production
<nubae> I'm on that at the moment... from the Sugar side especially, since thats my focus
<nubae> u should really check it out
<nubae> download the Sugar Suse CD
<nubae> or start it straight from the DVD
<nubae> its an icon on the desktop
<alkisg> It's not easy for me to switch, because I'm in charge of writing a manual about ubuntu/ltsp for all greek teachers, so that would mean changing what we advice them
<nubae> for kids it excellent
<nubae> well, take a look at sugar
<nubae> that might make it more agnostic
<alkisg> I'd really like for edubuntu to become something similar, so we could continue working with ubuntu as a base
<nubae> its really really improved and its amazingly cool to have collaboration working to that extent
<nubae> yeah well... unless there's a fork, I dont see it happening, we just dont have a community anymore
<alkisg> I think if someones picks it up and goes in that direction, others will follow.
<alkisg> Of course if noone does, it'll just die...
<nubae> well like u know, Laserjock has done all the work for Jaunty edubuntu, even the web page write ups, I just published it...
<nubae> unless that changes drastically, its gonna die in the next release
<nubae> I dont see laserjock doing this for fun for ever if its just him alone
<m0r0n> Hey
<m0r0n> Anyone willing to help me out on uninstalling Ubuntu, or helping me fix something so I don't have to
<nubae> well, ubuntu is more of an #ubuntu thing
<nubae> now if u have #edubuntu installed, then u're in the right place :-)
<m0r0n> ty
<bencrisford_> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hi again bencrisford_
 * bencrisford_ is desperate to help :D
<highvoltage> I saw your e-mail, thanks!
<bencrisford_> how can i contribute d'ya think?
<highvoltage> how's your documentation skills?
<bencrisford_> pretty neat
<bencrisford_> ive done docbook for spux project
<bencrisford_> and html
<bencrisford_> http://trac.spuxproject.net/trac/spux/browser/trunk/Other/Docs/trunk/spux.xml
<nubae> u know we also need to update the applicactions page on the edubuntu site for Jaunty
<bencrisford_> hmm, well i was hoping to leave the whole documentation area, because ive done alot
<bencrisford_> but im happy to help with it
<bencrisford_> when i say leave i mean do other things also
<nubae> well u should talk to Laserjock
<bencrisford_> my main experience is with graphics, web devel, and docs
<bencrisford_> nubae: i saw he was the one to talk to through launchpad
<bencrisford_> but he hasnt been on at the same time as me
<nubae> well, u're more likely to catch him via email these days
<nubae> and he might make an appearance when u suggest a set date/time
<bencrisford_> ah ok
<bencrisford_> i sent to the mailing list
<nubae> there hasnt been a edubuntu development meeting in a really long time
<bencrisford_> so he might see that
<nubae> but there should be
<nubae> yes I saw
<nubae> to be honest, I don't really know what to tell you, but there is an incredible amount of work to do... our community is a little in tatters at the moment
<nubae> it could really do with some new blood to push people's spirits back up
<bencrisford_> hmm
<bencrisford_> well i would suggest just a meeting for all areas of development
<bencrisford_> just to make sure we hear everyones ideas
<nubae> yeah
<bencrisford_> and if we advertise the meeting a bit
<bencrisford_> get some fresh people in
<bencrisford_> then have meetings for sub-groups
<nubae> well push laserjock a bit... tell him u're really serious and u'd like a meeting, and I'm sure it will help
<highvoltage> bencrisford_: sorry, my internet connection keeps dropping
<highvoltage> bencrisford_: I see you mention web skills, if you'd like to work on the website, that would also help a lot
<bencrisford_> ill do whatever, but I would love that
<nubae> highvoltage: I think there needs to be some specifics... some page that shows what needs to be done
<nubae> something like trac even
<highvoltage> nubae: yes, you're right
<nubae> I dunno
<highvoltage> I like trac a lot, not sure how that will go down with everyone
<bencrisford_> we could use launchpad though
<bencrisford_> that would be more appropriate ?
<highvoltage> probably, but it's just so big
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> trac is very specific
<bencrisford_> well ubuntu is done via launchpad
<nubae> to just bug/features
<bencrisford_> people would search for edubuntu on launchpad
<bencrisford_> blueprints resemble tickets in trac i believe
<nubae> well, not if its mentioned on the edubuntu page
<nubae> edubuntu is independent enough at this point to use trac, I just dont think ubuntu would host it
<highvoltage> trac is easy to host though
<nubae> yep
<bencrisford_> sorry, my internet is REALLY faulty
<bencrisford_> highvoltage - as I was saying, i would love to help with the website if you need me to :)
<bencrisford__> anyone here? :)
<Lns> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5343111/Ball-and-chain-to-force-children-to-study.html - ....Can we safely assume that some people are just completely insane??
<alkisg> Yeah, that's too harsh for study... but I could use it to make my younger daughter eat all of her food :)
<Lns> alkisg: =p~~
<Lns> I mean, wow. If that is really a serious product, i have my doubts about humanity, heh
<bencrisford_> lol
<bencrisford_> well it might help me study
<bencrisford_> but i could lift 21kg
<bencrisford_> if it was maths
<bencrisford_> i would definately be motivated to walk off with it
<Lns> The mental impact of using something like that would likely curb any motivation to study in the future, I'd think ("Hmm, I could study, ...wait...heavy ball tied to my leg....no, I think I'll go do something fun")
<bencrisford_> lol yeah i agree
<bencrisford_> hmm, if it caught on we could use it to market edubuntu
<bencrisford_> a picture of a kid studying with the ball/chain
<bencrisford_> then a cross through it
<bencrisford_> and a picture of him having a ton of fun on edubuntu :P
<bencrisford_> brb
#edubuntu 2009-05-19
<Svenstaro> Anybody alive in here at all?
<bencrisford_> hey
<Svenstaro> Anybody alive in here at all?
<bencrisford_> HI
<bencrisford_> im alive :D svenstaro :)
<Svenstaro> Uh hi there.
<Svenstaro> I'll just make my own Edubuntu now. I'm sick of the uncertainity and silence.
<bencrisford_> lol
<Svenstaro> I really wanna create a distro suited for schools, not just some random apps put into a LTSP.
<bencrisford_> dont leave us!
<bencrisford_> work on edubuntu
<bencrisford_> why not help me with eskole?
<Svenstaro> Well I wanna, but if Cannocial is gonna keep quite I'll make my own.
<Svenstaro> What's that?
<bencrisford_> http://dev.abruptus.dyndns.org/projects/eskole
<bencrisford_> s'gonna rock! :P
<bencrisford_> but we're gonna push and get edubuntu back up and running
<bencrisford_> get some fresh peeps
<bencrisford_> and the old'uns working
<bencrisford_> we were gonna organise a meeting, and advertise it
<Svenstaro> No use, we need some people who are willing to pull all-nighters for Edubuntu's sake or whatever the name is gonna be.
<bencrisford_> im willing to :)
<Svenstaro> It's about dedication. I'm certainly willing to do it.
<Svenstaro> I know how to build distros so that's a plus I guess.
<bencrisford_> well im willing to put alot in
<bencrisford_> if a few others are
<bencrisford_> then theres a driving force behind it
<bencrisford_> and thats all it needs to get started
<Svenstaro> You can't count on too many people I'm afraid.
<bencrisford_> i can bring in fresh peope
<bencrisford_> im sure you know people too
<bencrisford_> thats the whole point of the meeting idea
<bencrisford_> advertise it across mailing lists, forums etc.
<bencrisford_> so we get fresh people, original people and everyone plans/ideas get heard
<Svenstaro> Don't do that before there is a base.
<Svenstaro> Edubuntu needs to be almost completely scratched.
<Svenstaro> Too much is wrong right now.
<bencrisford_> whaddya mean by base?
<bencrisford_> and scratch?
<Svenstaro> A base means there is a firm fundament that incorporates all the basic ideas behind the new Edubuntu.
<Svenstaro> Scratch all that stands right now, it will only lead to the wrong directions. We need a fresh start.
<Svenstaro> The current Edubuntu is direction-less.
<bencrisford_> thats what this meeting idea is aboiut
<bencrisford_> a fresh start
<bencrisford_> a brainstorm
<Svenstaro> Yes, well we better get together soon then.
<Svenstaro> Is there a mailing list except for the official Edubuntu one for this?
<bencrisford_> edubuntu-devel?
<Svenstaro> Is that one actuall alive?
<Nubae> its kind of alive
<Nubae> but we need some real fresh blood
<Nubae> or it will be dead come next release
<Svenstaro> I'll start a thread on edubuntu-devel. I hope I get some responses. I am actually quite fast in hacking something workable together if that's what it takes.
<Svenstaro> It's time for the revolution, finally...
<Nubae> Svenstaro: it is indeed, nice to see that kind of enthusiasm, many of us here are just sceptical at this point, a revolution is gonna be required
<Nubae> Svenstaro: u should talk to Laserjock if u really want to start hacking/packaging/maintaining/triaging
<Svenstaro> Frankly I don't care. If people are too stubborn to drop what went wrong just because it was hard work once, I'll just take my direction. I don't mean to say that I don't want to cooperate, quite the opposite actually, but I *really* think a semi-fresh start is required.
<Svenstaro> By semi-fresh I mean we might as well use Alternate's LTSP and that's about it.
<Nubae> yeah, I agree :-) still communicate with Laserjock, he's really been doing edubuntu by himself for the last 2-3 release cycles
<Svenstaro> Does he check the lists?
<Nubae> yeah he does
<Nubae> but u can contact him directly too
<Nubae> laserjock at ubuntu.com I believe
<bencrisford_> hi again
<bencrisford_> sorry my internet broke
<bencrisford_> Svenstaro, Nubae: after I disconnected - did i miss anything
<Svenstaro> We had a party and you were invited but didn't attend.
<bencrisford_> :(
<bencrisford_> :P
<Svenstaro> Check yer mails
<bencrisford_> ok :)
<bencrisford_> Svenstaro:
 * bencrisford_ has no new mails :(
<Svenstaro> Check again
<Svenstaro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002876.html
<bencrisford_> lol ok
<bencrisford_> i dnt get why i never got it :(
<bencrisford_> got it :D
 * bencrisford_ has replied svenstaro
 * Svenstaro has received
 * bencrisford_ smiles :)
<Svenstaro> As I said, a name change is a last resort.
<Svenstaro> nubae, check los mail0s
<Ahmuck> Svenstaro: u here?
<bencrisford_> Svenstaro: so you got my message? thats odd
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck, of course.
<Svenstaro> bencrisford_, why?
<Ahmuck> Svenstaro: i'm dumping ubuntu ltsp on the first of june
<bencrisford_> svenstaro: dw, i just got told it didnt work :/
<Ahmuck> there are issues that need to be addressed before ubuntu ltsp will work in edubuntu
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck, so you are the Edubuntu maintainer?
<Svenstaro> Or rather, Ubuntu LTSP?
<Ahmuck> define maintainer
<Svenstaro> Person who takes care of stuff :D
<Ahmuck> locally yes, for ubuntu, no
<bencrisford_> the look-after-er Ahmuk :P
<Ahmuck> local school districts are getting citrix (ms) and ms office, etc. for free
<bencrisford_> Svenstaro: Ugh!  Whaddya make of this, i could post to the list fine the other day: http://pastebin.com/m657ddbc2
<Svenstaro> Oh dear
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck, where is that?
<Ahmuck> part of the reason i've decided to dump it, because i'm to busy and don't have time to train somebody through ltsp and it's problems
<Ahmuck> 1. need gui tools
<Ahmuck> 2. firefox keeps crashing
<Ahmuck> 3. need tools that allow admin globally as well as fine grained per user
<Ahmuck> 4. messages, etc. are broadcast to everyone ... printing, etc.
<Ahmuck> 5. user changes sound and everybodys sound changes, etc.
<Ahmuck> i've run into a host of issues with ltsp on a recent upgrade.  it's not something i'd be willing to risk employment deploying.  with ms a least you have someone to blame
<Ahmuck> if edubuntu want's to make a go at it, they need programming support to create tools that teachers can do simple things with to be effective
<Svenstaro> Heh. Well, this kind of was my point as well.
<Ahmuck> i'd even go so far to say, specify hardware
<Ahmuck> i'm still interested in it, but it's got problems
<bencrisford_> what kind of programming support?
<Ahmuck> and programming support needs to listen to users
<Ahmuck> someone to program gui interfaces.  the local high school typing teacher is not going to open a command line to add a user
<Svenstaro> Exactly my thoughts.
<bencrisford_> what exactly is ltsp?
<Svenstaro> And a gui for that is easy enough. For starters, it could be done with zenity and some cheesy bash scripting
<bencrisford_> (soz for the noob questions im new round here :P)
<Ahmuck> another very important feature is a default wine configuration and some tested windows apps that can be used in edbuntu
<pygi> ok, what are you talking about?
<Ahmuck> linux terminal server project
<pygi> still the same old forking edubuntu? :)
<Ahmuck> no offence, but forking it would do 2 things.  either create something that worked, or put a fire under some people so that edubuntu worked well
<Ahmuck> bbl
<pygi> I am not necessarily against it, just asking
<pygi> I just came in :p
<Svenstaro> pygi, I take it you read my mail?
<pygi> Svenstaro: you've got the answer
<bencrisford_> answer to what :P
 * bencrisford_ confused :(
<Ahmuck> we keep loosing school districts to citrix, and in a year, there won't be room for ubuntu ltsp or linux anywhere
<pygi> bencrisford_: he asked about the future of edubuntu
<bencrisford_> ah yeah
<bencrisford_> we were discussing a meeting earlier
<pygi> bencrisford_: lets wait with that
<bencrisford_> yeah i agree
<pygi> UDS is coming soon, at least me and Jonathan will be there to find out what's happening
<bencrisford_> ah ok
<Svenstaro> When is it?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: have you actually used citrix? It was totally unusuable for my school, so we decided to use ltsp.
<pygi> Svenstaro: next week
<Ahmuck> people ask ltsp questions in edubuntu because many times in #ltsp they get refered somewhere else
<Svenstaro> I see
<Ahmuck> alkisg: i know it's unusable, but a 1200 seat high school just dropped all open source and went with citrix and ms office because someone offered it for free, turn key
<Ahmuck> ur loosing market share, and it's not a battle you can afford to loose
<alkisg> OK, "just" is the keyword here, I'd like to see them after trying it for 2-3 months...
<Ahmuck> they have
<Ahmuck> it's not "just".
<alkisg> In 45 minutes of trying, I got *only one* student out of 8 to open excel remotely for 5 minutes. The rest of the time there were only problems.
<alkisg> Apps kept crashing, response was really slow, logging in was slow, there was no desktop...
<Svenstaro> Mh
<Ahmuck> quote "
<Ahmuck> buntu and LTSP on top of it. Any educational
<Ahmuck> apps my schools want, I'll install for them. They need my help because
<Ahmuck> they don't know how to do it. I want t
<Ahmuck> " end quote
<Ahmuck> alkisg: i'm crashing all over here with the new 9.04
<Ahmuck> hplip crashes our system
<alkisg> Well, I'm not. I haven't had a crash for the whole year
<alkisg> 8.10 and then 9.04
<Ahmuck> someone prints out something and it's broadcasted to the entire class
<alkisg> In all the classes...
<alkisg> Ahmuck: some of the problems you mentioned are easily solved, e.g. for the audio you just need to remove the users from the audio group
<alkisg> Others can't be solved easily, sure, but I think it's better than citrix
<Ahmuck> why?  if classmate a want's sound and classmate b doesn't shouldn't that be an option, easily done by opening the sound and moving the bar?
<Ahmuck> again, i'm swamped with work and don't have time to visit the instructor who needs to change it
<alkisg> Ahmuck: sure, if you remove them from the audio group you get what you're saying
<alkisg> I.e. student A gets a different mixer from student B
<Ahmuck> why are users by default in the audio group?
<Ahmuck> that's the questions that should be asked
<alkisg> Because gnome-system-tools is not LTSP aware... I agree with you here
<Ahmuck> which comes back to user managment
<Ahmuck> my primary #1 problem is making customizations for user managment
<alkisg> But I prefer user/software management with linux than with windows, its *much* easier
<Lns> Hey all
<alkisg> ...and I've been programming windows for the last 17 years
<alkisg> Hey Lns
<Lns> Ahmuck: IMHO you should *not* be using Jaunty in a production environment, especially trying to tie it into LTSP and other bits!
<Lns> That's akin to using Windows 7 on all your machines right now
<Lns> You have to expect it to break. It's only been out for a little bit.
<Ahmuck> using 8.10 was better, but still had issues
<pygi> Ahmuck: I am one of the original authors of Edubuntu Cookbook
<Lns> Ahmuck: right. I'm still using 8.04 LTS at all my sites, and it's bulletproof.
<pygi> and the problem is that while everything was slightly dying, so did all of the original authors left the community
<Ahmuck> from a edubuntu ltsp, we need ... a central server, user managment, personlized profiles for apps, ie .firefox - bookmarks, etc.  global managment for apps, ie firefox addons, security, downloads, wallpapers,
<Ahmuck> and pre-configured wine
<Lns> Ahmuck: Edubuntu != LTSP
<Ahmuck> *shrugs* i agree
<alkisg> Ahmuck: and do you get those with citrix?!!! Personalized profiles for apps?
<Ahmuck> and drop in the ltsp room and if it's ubuntu specific i get the same response
<Ahmuck> ltsp != ubuntu
<Lns> you're right, it's not.
<Ahmuck> alkisg: don't know.  the school calls a local it company to manage it
<Lns> Ahmuck: All of these things work together in a software ecosystem. No one project leads all of them.
<Ahmuck> there are no local it linux companies.  we did have a local company that brought in a linux admin to set some servers and ie up, but he resigned after it was done, leaving the company stuck with no one to run it
<Lns> Ahmuck: where are you located?
<Ahmuck> in a community of 1200, with a company that produces products globally, (they are located here for "cheap" labor) imagine the impression that was left when that happened
<Ahmuck> anyhow, i'll bbl.  feel free to msg me
<Svenstaro> Oh dear, I sparked quite some conversation there. Good though.
<Svenstaro> I hate seeing projects die by *not* talking about them.
<Lns> exactly.
<Svenstaro> Still there seems to be some controversy about Edubuntu's new direction, which is a good thing IMO.
<Svenstaro> Personally, I want it to be equally suited for LTSP purposes as for workstation environemnts.
<pygi> Svenstaro: how would you contribute to the new Edubuntu? :)
<Lns> Svenstaro: define "it" specifically. :)
<alkisg> Svenstaro: I totally agree with your email, and I'll try to help in the summer when I have some free time.
<Svenstaro> pygi, I would even start up a new distro if required. I have a decent bit of Linux knowledge to pull off the basics. I just want to get somethign going at all so others can join in.
<Svenstaro> Lns, it, the new Edubuntu.
<Lns> Svenstaro: define "the new Edubuntu"
<pygi> Svenstaro: you certainly won't have to do it alone
<pygi> if it'll happen
<Lns> I think a distribution is completely overkill
<pygi> Lns: why so?
<Svenstaro> Lns, the Edubuntu that the old (current) Edubuntu is going to become after we decide on what it should become. Yes, that was recursive but what I said was my own humble opinion only :)
<Lns> pygi: what is the benefit?
<Svenstaro> pygi, just saying, I'd be willing to invest substantial time.
<Lns> Svenstaro: hahaha ;)
<nubae> Svenstaro: nice post
<Lns> So we're stuck at the same place we were at about 3 months ago..we don't really *know* what Edubuntu is
<pygi> Lns: we'll decide what Edubuntu is after we know the current state of it
<Svenstaro> For starters, I think Edubuntu should lose the sense of filling a general role. It isn't for that stuff.
<nubae> the problem is other distros are running circles around edubuntu now
<pygi> Svenstaro: have I already asked you if you know py?
<Svenstaro> pygi, py...thon?
<pygi> yes
<nubae> I'm working mostly with opensuse-edu, and I can tell you honestly that it makes edubuntu look laughable
<Svenstaro> Of course I do, I give after school lessons on it.
<nubae> part of that is because of the freedom given to developers to make it what they want it to be
<Lns> nubae: what's the diff between the two projects?
<nubae> edubuntu is restricted in that sense
<pygi> Svenstaro: that's good
<nubae> and will not change till that restriction is gone
<nubae> Lns: go and install an opensuse-edu live dvd and see for yourself
<Lns> nubae: is opensuse-edu its own dist?
<nubae> just one example is Sugar, which is an icon on the desktop and launches, works and every activity within it works and is the latest
<nubae> yes it is
<nubae> and in my opinion I agree, edubuntu has failed there
<nubae> all the other -edu addons are distros in and of themselves
<nubae> opensuse-edu has 2 gigs of educational content
<nubae> all of it works, all of it amazing stuff
<nubae> everything is gui installabale and managable
<Lns> nubae: is it open source? Can we integrate it ?
<nubae> or u can use the command line if you prefer
<nubae> everything is open source yes
<nubae> there is something called opensuse studio
<nubae> I believe I mentioned this once before
<nubae> you can go in and pick and choose components and then create your own iso
<nubae> thats then writable to cd, dvd, usb or whatever
<Lns> IMHO that is all pretty redundant. Why would you need all of that?
<Lns> ease of installation?
<nubae> about 2 things to click on and its installed
<nubae> ltsp just works
<nubae> and is easily managable
<nubae> ldap just works
<Svenstaro> How does K12 compare, by the way?
<nubae> samba just works
<nubae> sugar, which is my area, just works
<Lns> nubae: doesn't all of this stuff 'just work' with ubuntu?? I haven't had issues with installing/managing LTSP at all for a long time.
<nubae> in ubuntu sugar is stuck at 0.82 and has no chance of developing due to debian policy
<nubae> heh, no
<Lns> All of the GUI apps that come with Ubuntu work fine with LTSP, LTSP really doesn't matter
<nubae> ldap doesnt just work on ubuntu
<nubae> ltsp is about the only thing
<Lns> i agree, ldap would be nice
<nubae> have u seen the jaunty complaints?
<Svenstaro> So it seems most people here agree that Edubuntu currently just sucks more than a black hole :D
 * Lns sihgs
<Lns> jaunty, imho, is still beta. you can't expect things to 'just work' with a version that just came out.
<nubae> unless something really drastic happens, I'm no longer interested in development on this platform, and I know many others feel the same
<nubae> jaunty is RELEASED
<nubae> its not beta
<Lns> nubae: i said IMHO. Did Vista 'just work' when it came out?
<nubae> check the topic
<Lns> did XP, or 2k, or 98/95? no
<nubae> are we really going to compare vista to ubuntu?
<Lns> you're comparing openSuse to it,...
<nubae> yeah I wouldn compare opensuse to vista either
<Lns> i'd be willing to wager that opensuse has its fair share of issues with versions it releases at first...
<nubae> but anyway, unless something changes with policy, ubuntu will stay as it is
<nubae> its not what I'm talking about
<nubae> I'm not mentioning the teething problems
<nubae> ok... lets turn it around
<nubae> whats good about edubuntu right now?
<nubae> edubuntu, not ubuntu
<Lns> umm, we have a community..that's about it ;)
<nubae> ah, ok, well barely
<nubae> You should step into the opensuse-edu channel and lurk and watch as the work happens, that is a community
<nubae> actual work happens
<nubae> daily
<nubae> with many members contributing
<nubae> it grows
<alkisg> I agree with nubae here. I wish edubuntu had the same goals as opensuse-edu.
<Svenstaro> I think schools except a longer release cycle than Edubuntu has. I actually thought about making the new 'Edubuntu' stand on Debian but I'm afraid of the licensing and Debian's strict policy on that stuff.
<pygi> Svenstaro: be careful when saying that someone agrees that edubuntu sucks
<pygi> most of the people like to talk, but when it comes to action most fail
<pygi> so wait and see :)
<nubae> pygi: +1
<Lns> Svenstaro: you have a choice of release cycles - stick with the LTS versions, you'll be a happy camper
<Svenstaro> Personally, I'm a big Arch Linux guy but I wouldn't use a rolling distro to base a school distro.
<pygi> Svenstaro: I use archlinux right now too
<nubae> heh, when hardy came out it was the worst release yet
<nubae> partly because firefox 3 was still in beta
<Svenstaro> pygi, I'm sorry :/ I'm actually quite eager to do *something*
<nubae> but still
<pygi> Svenstaro: I know you are, just saying from experience
<nubae> there are many of us that have put our nose to the grind stone in here though
<Lns> nubae: doesn't matter, nobody with any sense of experience rolls a dist. to a brand newly released version. That's just naive
<nubae> but we've been forced to stay within very restrictive limits and the tools are not there to move forward efficiently or easily
<Lns> not in an environment where so many people use it and depend on it daily, anyway.
<nubae> and I just think its easier in opensuse-edu
<pygi> I think schools don't want to upgrade every half year
<Lns> pygi: i *know* my schools don't
<nubae> well, its about building a product
<nubae> and right now edubuntu is not a product
<Lns> nubae: why is it about building a product?
<nubae> its just this addon which really is just a bunch of programs
<nubae> because thats what schools want
<Lns> all of the pieces are there, why do you need something that says "Hey I'm educational ubuntu! use me!"
<Svenstaro> I agree there, nubae
<Lns> nubae: I disagree
<Lns> schools want something that works. They want support, and they want someone to depend on to fix it when it breaks. They want to know how to use it.
<nubae> well, thats why Novell has made a deal with HP to carry its educational distro on its laptops
<pygi> Svenstaro: HedgeMage is a cool kiddo, she's one of the original authors of edubuntu cookbool
<nubae> and why canonical has pretty much dropped any concept of education on ubuntu
<Svenstaro> Hey HedgeMage :)
<nubae> I've not heard a peep from an official ubuntu person in many months
<HedgeMage> hi, guys :)
<Lns> nubae: Ubuntu != Canonical
<nubae> thats not the point
<Lns> nubae: you're comparing opensuse/novell to ubuntu/canonical. it's not the same
<pygi> Lns: if we went forward with something new, I know of at least two companies willing to do support
<Lns> pygi: you know 3, you mean. ;)
<nubae> why is that not the same?
<pygi> Lns: what's the third one?
 * Lns raises hand
<nubae> Lns company
<pygi> Lns: :P
<nubae> hell I would too
<HedgeMage> :)
<Svenstaro> Is Scott in herE?
<nubae> but right now, we're rolling out opensuse-edu, running the latest sugar with kiwi-ltsp
<Svenstaro> Who just replied to mah mail?
<Lns> nubae: it's not the same because canonical obviously doesn't care much for edubuntu, but we stand anyway
<nubae> ah yes, there u are right
<nubae> scott is a serious contributor to LTSP and edubuntu, but like others I believe he lost faith
<nubae> he now hangs on the ltsp channel
<nubae> dont know if he's even in here
<nubae> he's not
<nubae> sigh...
<nubae> this just makes me so sad
<Lns> we lost a lot of ppl because edubuntu used to mean easy ltsp installation.
<nubae> its like watching a flame go out
<nubae> yep edubuntu should be a distro
<Lns> nubae: doesn't mean we can't use different fuel
<Lns> nubae: yep? who are you responding to?
<nubae> u
<nubae> easy ltsp installation = edubuntu as a distro
<Lns> I'll bbl, have a meeting
<Svenstaro> So many conflicting opinions again. The people who worked on Edubuntu for long say "Fix it up", I say decide on a direction (for now!) and excel in that direction before tackling new ones, others say just let it die.
<pygi> Svenstaro: here's the thing
<Svenstaro> Also, making a bootable ISO, really isn't all that hard.
<pygi> we know we need to do something
<pygi> and we'll do it
<Svenstaro> I'm building another distro right now and it really isn't all that hard, just takes time.
<pygi> Svenstaro: we'll have to decide what direction to go, and as always not everyone will like it
<nubae> its actually even easier if the tools are available... opensuse studio I'm not sure if its gpl or not, but open build service is
<pygi> but the point is to create a healthy community in the long term
<Svenstaro> I'm this short of just deciding for myself and see who will follow.
<pygi> Svenstaro: haven't we agreed that you'll wait for a week and a half? :P
<nubae> and that allows u to build packages for any distro and any plaform including arm by just uploading a spec file
<Svenstaro> pygi, yes :(
<nubae> I'm here, but won't touch anything, not even my fatclient script until I see some real action
<pygi> Svenstaro: thanks :)
<nubae> thats my position
<nubae> I work with opensuse-edu for now
<Svenstaro> From what I get to hear all around, everybody is waiting for the next person to actually get the hands dirty.
<pygi> Svenstaro: not true
<Svenstaro> Should we decide so, I'll happily be the person to throw the first stone here.
<Svenstaro> I really think we should get the LTSP thing straight. It will be the hardest goal, so a workstation might be a better approach at first but that is a lot less appealing.
<pygi> Svenstaro: I agree, but we should take the iterative approach
<pygi> we can't change years of nothingg to something in a few days
<Svenstaro> pygi, that's probably right. You mean start with the smallest problem?
<pygi> Svenstaro: yes, for now
<pygi> first release will be a challenge, as we need the infrastructure setup, some rules and stuff
<Svenstaro> That would be a theme based workstation approach in my book.
<pygi> probably, yes
<Svenstaro> By theme I of course mean physics, chemistry, biology, etc.
<pygi> I'm not sure about you, but I think DVD approach would be way better too
<Svenstaro> Of course it is.
<Svenstaro> Honestly, and that might sound cruel, I don't care too much about people without DVD drives at this point :/
<Svenstaro> The people who consider having a lab with LTSP clients would have a DVD drive.
<Svenstaro> There should be a CD version but mainly for installing.
<pygi> Svenstaro: I agree
<Svenstaro> Bye everyone, talk again tomorrow.
#edubuntu 2009-05-20
<Ahmuck> nubae: other distros are running circles around edubuntu ?  which distros, i might have to convert
<Ahmuck> Lns there is the divide.  ur a tech, so of course it just works.  try it out in the hands of a layman
<Ahmuck> is ubuntu getting input from people on jaunty before release?
<Ahmuck> how many schools have the resources to do testing.  if ubuntu isn't testing, then it's jaunty beta
<Ahmuck> morever, imho, if ur running ltsp or edubuntu and it's not ready, then a seperate upgrade/release schedule needs to be planned and that needs to be tied to the package manager
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> a week or so?  sounds like there is something going on behind the scenes?
 * sbalneav *shrugs*
<sbalneav> Did LaserJock officially pack it in?
<Ahmuck> he's working on his disertation
<Ahmuck> i think that's what did it for him.  so i'd say yes
<Ahmuck> looks like nubae kinda dropped his activity.  our lab is running but upon upgrading we ended up with tremendous problems related to ltsp
<Ahmuck> what's interesting is that edubuntu thinks that ltsp is not tied to it.  but there is no way i'd deploy 100 edubuntu desktops without ltsp.  who wants to run around updating or correcting every desktop
<sbalneav> exactly
<sbalneav> What always got to me, and I hope that I'm not sounding too bitter, is that the number of people actually DOING things was so small.  Me, you D. V-A, nubae, LaserJock, HighVoltage, and originally ogra.
<sbalneav> We had lots of people shouting "More! More!", and adding lots of suggestions, but when it came to actully having butts in chairs coding, it was the same old people slogging away.
<sbalneav> The bug day was where I started to lose interest.
<sbalneav> All these teachers screaming "Fix our bugs!" and not ONE of them showed up to help.
<sbalneav> sigh.
<sbalneav> Oh, well, if we're going to make another go of it, I'm in for another round.
<sbalneav> I'm nothing if not a glutton for punishment.
<sbalneav> I'm planning on focusing on docs, and getting sabayon going,
<sbalneav> One other thing I'd suggest: we tie edubuntu releases to the LTS ubuntu releases, and not to the 6 monthly releases.
<sbalneav> We just don't have the personpower to keep up with that pace.
<Ahmuck> actually, i might suggest taking the debain direction on releases for edubuntu
<Ahmuck> specifically if it aint stable, don't release that particular product
<Ahmuck> that allows people breathing space
<Ahmuck> and a bulleted item list of what's being worked on ... so if someone asks you can point to the list and say wait your turn
<Ahmuck> ah, i'm backreading and neglected to see your tie to LTS.  yes, i'd agree with that
<sbalneav> Yeah, either a "when it's done" philosophy, or at least tie to lts.
<highvoltage> hey sbalneav
<highvoltage> sbalneav: the LTS idea is interesting, I think it's worth while exploring
<nubae> morning
<sbalneav> highvoltage: hey hey
<nubae> sbalneav: yo yo
<nubae> nice to see u on the channel
<nubae> I've seen some real enthusiasm from new users in the last 2 weeks, lets see if it sticks...
<sbalneav> Nice to see you again too!
<highvoltage> hey sbalneav, nubae
<highvoltage> nubae: it's been nice seeing it
<highvoltage> nubae: I'm glad that people still care
<nubae> yeah but 'm also glad that non of us is doing anything until we see some action
<highvoltage> :/
<highvoltage> well, it's not really like that
<nubae> sure, I think we need some proof at this stage that something will happen
<nubae> anyway a meeting is a good start
<nubae> Friday is fine with me
<sbalneav> 18:00 utc is 12:00 or so here, fine with me
<nubae> need to make sure Laserjock can make it then too, since he's so busy right now
<sbalneav> If he's working on his disertation, leave him be. His education's more important than edubuntu.
<nubae> for sure, but he may still want to be here, even if its couple minutes
<Ahmuck> meeting today?
<Ahmuck> i just noticed a e-mail about edubuntu bieng a "community" project.  any chance at this point forking it into something useful?
 * sbalneav rolls eyes
<sbalneav> And forking it is going to fix it's problems how?
 * nubae rolls eyes even further back
<Ahmuck> hrm, the complaint is no developers and/or to many restrictions
<nubae> in my not so humble opinion, we need to regress back to a time when edubuntu was a distro
<Ahmuck> forking it would put the devs outside of those restrictions
<nubae> with ltsp in it
<sbalneav> What restrictions?!?!
<Ahmuck> sheesh, do i really have to do a readback and pull up all the conversations of yesterday?
<nubae> maybe the one I just mentioned, though I doubt its a restriction
<Ahmuck> ah, so edubuntu is dead in it's own right?
<Ahmuck> and conical has had no influence over it's direction
<sbalneav> I wasn't here for any conversation yesterday, but I fail to see how we're restricted in ANYTHING, other than too much work to do for too few people.
<sbalneav> Which is why I'd suggest tying ourselves to an LTS release, to allow the few people we HAVE more time to work on things, rather than the frantic 6 month time schedule.
<nubae> well, we're not exactly being praised by canonical, in other words, it doesnt seem to care about edubuntu too much
<nubae> or do what opensuse does which is create snapshots on a very regular basis and ask people to rsync to the latest dvd (which includes everything educational) about 2 gigs
<nubae> this way incremental images can be downloaded... this is for livedvds, which in my opinion is really really necessary for edubuntu
<nubae> some kind of theme applied to a livecd/dvd that really shows its an educational project with a nice choice of both server and client applications
<sbalneav> I'm fine with the idea of producing an actual distro.  I'm EVEN fine with saying we must be distributed on a DVD.  One of ogra's biggest headaches was trying to fit everything on a cd.  If we're "community" based now, and someone's willing to do the work on producing the dvd images, I think it would be a good thing.
<Ahmuck> when does the meeting start?  i'm us central
<Ahmuck> what was the problem with creating cd's ?
<sbalneav> Friday at 12:00 central was mentioned, although, with the exception of LaserJock, we've kind of got most of the people here now :)
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: 2 problems
<Ahmuck> good, pre-meeting is running ? :)
<sbalneav> 1) Canonical's policy of "must be cd and not dvd", which, as a community project, we're not bound to.
<sbalneav> now, anyway
<sbalneav> 2) finding someone to do the work.
<sbalneav> 2) being the central edubuntu problem in general :)
<Ahmuck> what is wrong with getting it on a cd?  that's the question i meant to ask
<sbalneav> Too much stuff.
<Ahmuck> how so.  it's simply a theme with additional programs.  why can't the additional programs be downloaded after the install?
<sbalneav> All base ubuntu programs + langpacks + edubuntu software > 700 mb
<Ahmuck> any reason not to have a net based install?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: What do you do for people with no internet access?
<sbalneav> Say, people in Brazil
<nubae> we can make 2 things, a dvd that is the main thing we concentrate on and then a really speedy thinned down maybe even xfce based edu live cd that can be put onto usb stick too
<sbalneav> or in south africa
<Ahmuck> r people in brazil, if they don't have internet going to have dvd ?
<nubae> people in Brazil generally have internet
<sbalneav> DVD may be EASIER to get than internet
<nubae> its more in places like Nepal, Mongolia
<Ahmuck> but won't do a thing if you don't have a dvd player
<sbalneav> nubae: in the major urban centers, yes
<sbalneav> in the more rural areas no.
<Ahmuck> even in our area, people are still using comptuers that only have cdrom
<alkisg> I wonder, if people don't have internet, isn't it easier to send them a dvd with full language support than for them to download it over the internet? Cause the CD doesn't have e.g. greek lang support...
<nubae> well, there they dont have money for a computer either usually :-)
<alkisg> Same for progs
<sbalneav> nubae: No, they have computers
<alkisg> (hi sbalneav, long time no see :))
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see a cd with the core, and then a second cd with additional programs
<sbalneav> I've been to brazil twice, and I'm going there again in 5 weeks for FISL
<nubae> yeah, I think its important that edubuntu be a distro for those reasons
<nubae> oh no... just 2 different approaches
<sbalneav> hey hey alkisg nubae Ahmuck highvoltage etc etc if I forgot any hello's !:)
<nubae> one would be to enable slower older computers to run a edubuntu image
<Ahmuck> for example, i'm kubuntu and use ubuntu ltsp in the lab.  however we download things like scribus, gimp, etc. both in the office and in the lab
<nubae> and the other is the nice jam packed dvd with all the best edu on it
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: That's what we've got now.  Ubuntu plus edubuntu addon cd
<nubae> that has to go, please tell me that is a possibility
<Ahmuck> correct, u have ubuntu on a cd plus the add on edubuntu.  why not edubuntu with an addon cd for the programs
<sbalneav> the problem that nubae points out is, if you want to SHOW someone edubuntu, you can't.
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: as far as I understand we have less restrictions now than ever
<sbalneav> you have to install ubuntu, then install the addon cd.
 * Ahmuck needs to look at the addon cd
<nubae> so we create 2 images... one for cds, and one for dvd
<nubae> usb sticks are becoming ever more popular to load from too
<nubae> especially in schools
<sbalneav> Sure, sounds good
<nubae> so that is another area to focus on
<Ahmuck> i'd really like to see edubuntu on a cd with ltsp as a option, but without the programs.  the program can be just that a "program" cd
<sbalneav> (and I'm yelling purely for comic effect here)
<sbalneav> WHO'S GOING TO PRODUCE THESE IMAGES?! :)
<sbalneav> hehe
<Ahmuck> i'll be glad to look at that this week.
<Ahmuck> btw, i know no programming
<sbalneav> I'm more "upstream".  producing cd's is more of a packaging thing, and I think my talents (! such as they are) are better spent fixing bugs in LTSP, Documentation, and programs like Sabayon.
<sbalneav> all the "packaging policy" stuff just confuses me.
<alkisg> If edubuntu is going to become a live dvd, I'm willing to spend several weeks on it (casper or whatever it takes) to help out.
<Ahmuck> k, let me ask a different question.  what is edubuntu?
<nubae> fine, well, I understand packaging and iso creation quite well so I am glad to work on that
<sbalneav> Edubuntu, to me, should be "a classroom on a (cd|dvd)"
<nubae> its really not rocket science at all
<Ahmuck> what is a classroom on a cd?
<nubae> there are many automated tools to get that out there
<Ahmuck> is there a definitive list of what a classroom is?
<nubae> yup, themed cd with basic edu apps
<Ahmuck> is there a list of edu apps?
<sbalneav> A combination of an operating system, educational programs, and a thin client solution with management tools bundled in.
<nubae> well, I send Laserjock a long list of includable apps that seemed to work great in the classroom
<nubae> right!
<Ahmuck> are we talking childrens apps, or classroom apps?
<nubae> both Ahmuck
<bencrisford_> sorry to be awkward - what are we talkin about?
<bencrisford_> i only just got home
<nubae> there is a server component side (moodle, class, mahara, koha, LAMP stack) and there is the python activities
<sbalneav> nubae: You may *think* it's not rocket science, but beleive me, don't sell yourself short.  I think all the "rules and regulations" surrounding packaging are VERY complex to me, and I admire anyone who can make heads or tails of them.
<nubae> such as gcompris, childsplay, etc etc
<nubae> sbalneav: I use opensusebuild service to package sugar, and we spec files, no policy there, which makes it a great deal easier and faster
<nubae> but raelly, its just about knowing which deps and the name of the deps
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I'd say, currently, edubuntu's focus has been on K-12
<nubae> as they vary from distro to distro
 * bencrisford_ wonders what he missed :(
<alkisg> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/20/%23edubuntu.html
<sbalneav> bencrisford_: In a word, we're trying to re-kickstart edubuntu development.
<bencrisford_> ah yeah :) weve been discussing this for days though
<bencrisford_> even weeks
<bencrisford_> i only been here for a few days though
<sbalneav> Maybe we could attack the problem in this way:
<sbalneav> Lets do a skills inventory of everyone here, what parts they're willing/wanting to work on, and then fit things out from there...
<sbalneav> I'll go first
<sbalneav> For bencrisford_'s benefit, I'm Scott Balneaves, mainly with the LTSP project.  I'm interested in 1) working on the LTSP thin client side of things 2) working on both LTSP documentation AND the edubuntu handbook, 3) Fixing bugs in management apps like Sabayon, and 4) Fixing general bugs in apps, either C or Python are my specialties.
<bencrisford_> ok nice :)
<nubae> hmmm ok, should I go next?
<sbalneav> It's all you, dude :)
<bencrisford_> mind if i jump in next?
<bencrisford_> My name's Ben Crisford, i've been contributing to ubuntu for a while, and working on a couple of projects (including eskole which is related).  I am fairly experienced with bug triaging and marketing, and slightly more experienced with documentation.
<bencrisford_> I have skills in web development
<bencrisford_> and some software development ability
<nubae> I'm David Van Assche, also worked quite closely with LTSP project, especially the ltsp manual, which actually is very relevant to ubuntu as we know, and I am pretty good at shell coding, having created the fat client script, and I know php fairly well so web side based stuff is not out of the wquestion either. I'm the oficial sugar package manager for opensuse
<nubae> Sugar is my main focus, and would be for ubuntu too
<bencrisford_> Yeah id like to get involved in whatever I can
<bencrisford_> hopefully some bug fixes
<nubae> well, that and getting a nice stack of edu apps running
<nubae> bugfixing and hacking at code I don't really like unless I'm forced to do that
<sbalneav> nubae and I, without putting too fine a point on it, have really produced the first, and pretty much only, ltsp5 doco :)
<nubae> hehe, yeah indeed
<alkisg> Alkis Georgopoulos - I'm a Greek teacher using Ubuntu/LTSP for the last two years, experienced windows :( programmer, still new to linux administration/bug reporting-fixing/packaging but I'm learning fast, willing to spend a lot of time on whatever it takes (e.g. casper, live ltsp stuff) to make edubuntu a live dvd.
<sbalneav> alkisg: go, dude
<sbalneav> whoops, you're too fast for me
<alkisg> Heh :)
<nubae> so, another question, what archs do we want to target if it becomes a distro...
<nubae> I'd imagine one possibility would be to take netbook remix and educationalise it
<sbalneav> Ahmuck, then highvoltage
<nubae> that could be the smaller cd
<sbalneav> eunr would be cool
<nubae> yeah it would
<nubae> it would give us an original product apart from the dvd
<nubae> something to give us the edge again in the distro scene
<bencrisford_> Why don't we think about a WUBI/portable ubuntu style thing, where you can run edubuntu and it would give you an educationalised main menu for you to move around
<bencrisford_> that would be a starting point ?
<nubae> thats whaat netbook remix is bencrisford_
<bencrisford_> oh
<bencrisford_> lol sorry
<sbalneav> One of the FIRST things I think we should decide, is who we're tied to.  The 6 month releases? Or the LTS with some backports?
<bencrisford_> depends on how many developers/contributors we get
<bencrisford_> perhaps we should wait for the UDS
<nubae> why either of them... we could say we'll release something when we're at 0.5
<nubae> u know... go into beta mode
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hmm?
<nubae> and after that go with LTS indeed
<sbalneav> highvoltage: what are your skills, and what are you interested in working on.
<bencrisford_> not a bad idea :)
<sbalneav> just for the record, so we know where we're at.
<sbalneav> nubae: ok, but if you want to produce a live cd, what do we use?  Jaunty? Or Hardy?
<nubae> Jaunty, and then go with the next LTS
<nubae> we need to make sure we've got the latest libs and stuff for many of the new and upcoming edu apps/projects
<nubae> hardy would make us again stuck in the past
<sbalneav> OK, sounds reasonable.
<sbalneav> I'm willing to suspect most teachers will want to stick with LTS long term
<nubae> for sure
<alkisg> Yes, as long as they don't miss important stuff, e.g. some new flash version that's fast with ltsp and doesn't hang up :P
<nubae> but we must make it easy for them to upgrade, and seperate apps by subject/theeme
<dtrask> hey
<nubae> well, we can be in beta to begin with addding everything we want
<nubae> until we are happy...
<sbalneav> and if we get ourselves up to the point where we're tracking LTS, it gives US time to work on things rather than the frenetic 6 month cycle, which, quite frankly, I just don't have the time to commit to.
<nubae> then we go along with LTS
<nubae> right, me either, but in the beginning we're gonna have to put some good time in
<nubae> mostly its just creating metapackages
<nubae> ie, science, maths, languages, etc etc
<sbalneav> I will go on record, right now, that if we're going to try to make a go of this, I'll find the time.
<nubae> then we decide to carry both kde and gnome, and Sugar as windows managers so there is greater choice
<nubae> add LTSP and LDAP support
<dtrask> amen to LDAP
<alkisg> Live LTSP, or only after the hd installation?
<sbalneav> ldap's a big one.
<nubae> well, opensuse has it integrated really nicely
<sbalneav> Did opensuse just pick a "standard" way to do it, and build on that?
<nubae> so we should look at how we can copy what they've done. They do it through yast, but in fact their entire user managament is really great. User management is something REALLY lacking ubuntu...
<nubae> do u think we could put LDAP support into sabayon?
<sbalneav> nubae: it's in there already
<sbalneav> it's just not normally compiled in.
<nubae> well, they just look like guis to what is being done underneath, but because they have 90% prefilled in, LDAP is really easy to install
<sbalneav> I am still 100% committed to getting sabayon working.
<dtrask> Are we talking LDAP on the client side....server side....or both?
<sbalneav> both.
<sbalneav> AFAIK
<dtrask> Good....that's one thing I've always felt was lacking in Linux in education
<nubae> yes both for sure
<dtrask> cool
<nubae> especially if its LTSP
<dtrask> amen
<dtrask> I use it now, but it's kludgy
<highvoltage> ~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~
<dtrask> not for novices
<nubae> well, like I said, its just about copying what opensuse has done there, and letting sbalneav hack at sabayon
<dtrask> I have full faith in sbalneav
<nubae> it could be integrated with the user management interface to create something really nice
<dtrask> :-)
<sbalneav> dtrask: Boy, have I got YOU fooled :)
<dtrask> LOL
<nubae> so sabayon+pessulus+usermanagment interface would be something really nice
<sbalneav> nubae: the standard user-management tools REALLY need to be made LDAP aware
<nubae> that could then allow for contorl of groups, themes, ldap, etc
<nubae> yep they do
<sbalneav> nubae+++++++++++++++
<sbalneav> And *that*s one of the things I'd want to focus on first
<nubae> which is why we should try and see if we cant laterally combine some of this stuff and steal code from the other distros doing it the right way :-)
<nubae> yep, indeed without that, we dont have much
<sbalneav> as it's (one of) our most GLARING shortcomings now.
<nubae> with it, a revolution takes place
<nubae> totally agree with you
<nubae> using fedora or opensuse that hits u almost instantly...
<sbalneav> touching NOTHING else, if we could (within say a 6 month timeframe) produce:
<nubae> u just notice u-m there sitting sad and alone, totally unaware of anything but .passwd/.shadow and .group
<sbalneav> 1) A live DVD with the existing edubuntu program set...
<nubae> a live cd with netbook remix
<nubae> edu
<sbalneav> 2) that integrated a WORKING solution for sabayon+pesselus+gui useradd+ldap+bulk user csv add support
<dtrask> hey brendan
<nubae> sbalneav: I'm with you
<Ahmuck> I'm Dale.  I'm a user with some admin capabilities.  I run an independent ubuntu ltsp community lab.  I have the ability to do user testing.  My time is limited by me and what I decide to do during the course of the week.  I've done some scripting, but that is the extent of my programming.  I tend to organize large community projects.  I'm a starter, and then move on to the next thing after getting a foundation in place.
<sbalneav> and 3) a REASONABLE up to date handbook + ltsp docs
<sbalneav> we'd be LIGHYEARS ahead of where we are now.
<nubae> u know with a little shell scripting and zenity we could cheat a little
<sbalneav> nubae: Sure
<sbalneav> I'm not above cheating :)
<dtrask> LOL
<nubae> cool, well then I see the work infront of us... I will make sure sugar can be packaged for ubuntu, and thats easy enough since we're automating to make .debs from open build service
<nubae> Same goes for any other packages that we feel dont need oficial maintaining...
<Ahmuck> I do a lot of linux promotion, but am making decisions this month if i should be staying with an ubuntu ltsp distro.  i like the theme in edubuntu, and some programs, but prefer to choose what applications are needed.  we do have children frequent the labs, but i need support for windows apps
<nubae> so... we're kind of saying, we are going to be much more relaxed about rules and regulations
<sbalneav> nubae: certainly, for a much faster ldap user add tool, it may be faster to just implement something in python GTK that does the ldap aware adds, rather than trying to hack something into the Gnome user add tools.
<nubae> for example... flash and pdf will be integrated from the start, gasp!
<nubae> sbalneav: there are lots of proggies already... we just need to find the right one
<sbalneav> yeah
<nubae> I'm just saying shell scripting and zenity can be the glue
<sbalneav> yessir
<nubae> lateral software architecture
<nubae> :-)
<sbalneav> And for now, jaunty's going to be the base we're going to work on.
<nubae> yep because we are officially in beta, we can even use karmic packages if we want
<Ahmuck> having a full distro with edu apps doesn't work for me.  having a themed distro with open office, scribus, gimp, wine (for artrage), and selectable edu apps works better
<nubae> it just depends on what works and what doesnt
<Ahmuck> is karmic the LTS release ?
<Ahmuck> ah, and content filtering
<nubae> Ahmuck: there will be 2 possibilities, a netbook remix-edu, or a big dvd with everything educational we ever wanted, both backend and frontend
<Ahmuck> it doesn't make sense to have an edu with content filtering
<nubae> thats dansguardian, we can definetly look into inlcuding that and squid as default
<dtrask> hey....to add something here....We're about to launch the Open 1-to-1 initiative (www.open1to1.org) using ubuntu (UNR) as our OS and setting up a community driven initiative to support 1 to 1 computing in schools.  In Maine (USA) we currently have an Apple based 1-to-1 initiative, but now there is an opportunity to get a foothold with Ubuntu and netbooks/low cost laptops as the state has kinda' dropped the ball on the latest expansion and schools are "opti
<nubae> with?
<dtrask> sorry to dump that in...no easy way to drop it in the conversation at the "right time"
<nubae> didnt finish though it stops at opti
<Ahmuck> dtrask: i've intensley interested in that link
<nubae> a lot of what has been done for the XS server (that will work with the xos) can be taken and included into the classroom server experience
<dtrask> hmmm...for me the whole thing shows up....I'll repost in 2 parts
<dtrask> hey....to add something here....We're about to launch the Open 1-to-1 initiative (http://www.open1to1.org/) using ubuntu (UNR) as our OS and setting up a community driven initiative to support 1 to 1 computing in schools.Â  In Maine (USA) we currently have an Apple based 1-to-1 initiative, but now there is an opportunity to get a foothold with Ubuntu and netbooks/low cost laptops as the state has kinda' dropped the ball on the latest expansion and schools
<dtrask> Maine already has a strong Linux/LTSP/Edubuntu base...so we're putting together an organization to support the "rebel alliance" so to speak.Â  Letting you know...and that we could use some help (reciprocal of course) with image development....tech support on forums...etc.Â  This could end up with a large install base that can be used as an example or springboard for the future.
<dtrask> there...can you see it all now?
<sbalneav> I've got a meeting here at $work in a few minutes I've got to prepare for.  I'll be afk for a couple of hours.
<sbalneav> be back later
<Ahmuck> i'm afk as well till this evening
<dtrask> afk?
<Ahmuck> away from keyboard
<dtrask> away from keyboard?
<dtrask> LOL
<dtrask> got it...thx
<dtrask> If any of you are interested in discussing Open 1to1 more...shoot me an email at dtrask_AT_vcsvikings.org
<dtrask> It has lots of exciting possibilities
<dtrask> and since we're building on an existing and very large one-to-one project...it could go very well
<dtrask> and then, of course, we hope to be able to help everyone around the world implement 1-to-1 projects in schools
<dtrask> brendan0powers: did you see the stuff above about LDAP?
<nubae> well we shuold really use the alternate cd as a base
<nubae> since that has the f4 option for ltsp
<nubae> I've got to go too though, work beckons
<dtrask> work?  what's that?  ;-)
<dtrask> me too....and lunch beckons too
 * dtrask hungry
<brendan0powers> dtrask: nope
<dtrask> brendan0powers: just sent you the chat in email
<brendan0powers> oh
<brendan0powers> k
<brendan0powers> I'l read it
<Ahmuck_> fwiw, in my area, we are converting users to linux on the average of 1 a week.  that may not seem like a lot, but we don't have the numbers that the cities doe
<alkisg> nubae: alternate? no live stuff?
<alkisg> afaik, debian is going to switch to a gui installer...
<nubae> well alternative with live
<nubae> so we'd move the f4 option to the live dvd/cd, and allow even ltsping from a live distro.... opensuse does this and it works, its also a cool way to show it working just from a live cd, dvd or usb stick
<nubae> I'm even gonna say we should make the easy-ltsp gui the main way of editing  lts.conf
<alkisg> nubae: the alternate cd is based on a different technology than the live desktop cd
<alkisg> So they can't be compined, only one of them can be selected
<nubae> right.... really we'll be basing it off the live dvd
<alkisg> OK. And, if LTSP is on the live dvd, then there's no point in an F4 option
<nubae> and we'll have a fully installed and functional ltsp server using the easy-ltsp gui for management
<nubae> so then there will be the installer that installs either with or without classroom server
<nubae> ie, acts like  server, acts like a desktop
<alkisg> AFAIK, whatever runs on a live dvd is going to be installed unless some script uninstalls it
<alkisg> So if e.g. LTSP is on the live dvd, then an uninstaller should be written for those that do not want it.
<alkisg> But someone should read on casper for this...
<nubae> but I dont think we need seperate cds/dvds for the user experience. In my opinion being able to show off ltsp and the edubunut edu apps + edu themes and colours and the great ldap+user-manager+sabayon+pessulus is what we want
<nubae> alkisg: right, we will add a bunch of scripts using zenity that customise the system.
<alkisg> I fully agree with that, but I thought that some people wanted the dvd to be able to install workstations, too
<Ahmuck> therein lies my problem.  needing the ability to pick our apps
<nubae> it will do both ahmuck
<nubae> and the remix-edu will be even for small devices and phones
<nubae> or older systems
<nubae> we will add the option of sending  a fatclient image of remix-edu to the workstations
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'd be interested in how you create the cd/dvd.  i'd like to do a custom *untu cd/dvd for local.  ie top apps and a kansas theme
<nubae> we could even add standard images for kde and xfce
<nubae> we need to catch up to opensuse
<Ahmuck> opensuse is that good ?
<nubae> they already have many predefined images to install, either via nomad where if the cable is pulled out, u dont loose the connection, and AOE, which seems to be slightly faster and more efficient for fat images... They also do fatclient clustering...
<nubae> right now... its amazing
<nubae> really, everything is easy to install and maintain
<nubae> very little command line stuff
<nubae> I've been using it as my main desktop os for a good 2 months now, and it hasn't crashed on me, there are tons of good options, and the gui management possibilities from users to groups, samba to ldap, and ltsp.... just make it all work
<nubae> oh and the latest set of sugar tools too
<Ahmuck_> so, i'm about to ask a very nasty question.  is there a reason to develop edubuntu?>
<nubae> well yes of course
<nubae> because ubuntu is a great base
<nubae> this is not a race, but a collaboration
<LaserJock> hello Edubuntu land!
<Lns> hey LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's the business going?
<highvoltage> \o/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we missed you, have you been busy with your dissertation?
<Lns> It's going OK, planning for the future!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: very very busy
<LaserJock> highvoltage: did a job interview and walked at commencement
<LaserJock> had family visiting and worked on cars
<LaserJock> very busy lately :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we're having a meeting at 18:00 UTC tomorrow, will you be able to join?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you said before that that's a good time for you generally
<LaserJock> oh, darn
<LaserJock> actually I have a meeting with my advisor at 18:00
<LaserJock> I miscalculated the time diff, I thought I'd be OK
<highvoltage> LaserJock: any other time tomorrow evening?
 * bencrisford_ is new here LaserJock
<bencrisford_> :)
<LaserJock> hi bencrisford_
<bencrisford_> hi =]
<LaserJock> highvoltage: would 20:00 UTC be OK?
<LaserJock> or is that too late for the UTC+2 crowd?
<LaserJock> or for that matter, I wonder if you guys should just go on without me
<bencrisford_> sorry to be awkward - whats this?  ive only had snippets of the conversation because of my internet
<bencrisford_> whats at 8 UTC tomoz?
<LaserJock> bencrisford_: we're scheduling a "future of Edubuntu" IRC meeting
<bencrisford_> ah :)
<bencrisford_> weve been talking about it for days
<bencrisford_> but i thought we were gonna wait for UDS?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry I was confused, I meant on Friday, not tomorrow
<LaserJock> oh, right
<LaserJock> maybe that's why I thought it was OK
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yep, I'm good for Friday at 18:00 UTC I think
<highvoltage> so is 18:00 UTC on friday evenin ok?
<highvoltage> ok cool, I'll send it like that to the list
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you can't say "evening" or you'll get me confused
<LaserJock> 18:00 UTC will be 11am for me ;-)
<bencrisford_> LaserJock: IMO we should spread the word about it a bit, get some new prospective developers to turn up
<bencrisford_> so everyones ideas are heard
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> bencrisford_: I'll blog it on Planet Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and if the email goes out to edubuntu-devel, -users and ubuntu-devel I think that should be fairly good coverage
<nubae> LaserJockus!
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> ;-)
<nubae> LaserJock: we've been discussing how to move forward with edubuntu, and some of us were imagining it becoming a distro again
<nubae> like the other edu projects
<nubae> the fact that its an addon seems to be something that really is not understandable and as much sense as it makes, it somehow doesn't, if u know what I mean
<nubae> If we had a live dvd to show off with lots of universe and multiverse apps, working ltsp with gui, and a better user management system, we'd be half way there
<nubae> then the possibility of launching other window managers would be another great thing (xfce, kde, sugar)
<LaserJock> nubae: what does openSUSE Edu do? I thought they were just a repo
<nubae> nah way man... its a whole distro, and its very progressive
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Team
<nubae> take a look at the team
<LaserJock> so you can actually download a CD/DVD?
<nubae> its gonna hurt a bit to see the contributor list
<Lns> nubae: you sure love touting opensuse in here =p
<nubae> there are various different images, based on kde, gnome, and/or sugar
 * Lns wonders if he's working for novell
<nubae> Lns: I was asked...
<nubae> and in my opinion and others we should be moving in the same direction they are
<nubae> http://en.opensuse.org/Education/
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we need to think carefully here
<nubae> its a good example of a project where the educational side is clearly understood and works quite well
<nubae> yeah I agree
<nubae> what me and sbalneav were saying before is, we could do 2 things
<nubae> create a remix-edu that works on lightweight machines
<nubae> and create a whopper dvd that has a nice selection of everything both server side and client side
<nubae> of course we'd need the people to maintain such a beast
<nubae> but it would be better than where we are at the moment, which is in a dying project
<nubae> if it wasn't for you, the last 2-3 releases wouldn't even have existed
<Lns> I'm honestly wondering why people are so tied up with making entire distros just to make it suitable for a certain use case
<nubae> so obviously we need to take drastic measures
<LaserJock> ok, but there are considerations here
<highvoltage> LaserJock:  you don't mind if I blog about it too do you?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: certainly not
<highvoltage> cool
<nubae> Lns: the point is, if I want to install edubuntu in a school, I need an example
<LaserJock> 1 consideration is that it is far from trivial to get new .iso/images hosted
<Lns> What ever happened to simply making a very easy to follow guide to configuring your system?
<nubae> and even if not, a live dvd/cd/usb makes total sense in schools
<nubae> thats how sugar is being majorly promoted... sugar on a stick
<Lns> ok, i see that makes sense
<nubae> well, we need edubuntu on a stick
<nubae> or on a cd at least
<LaserJock> CD won't work
<LaserJock> it needs to be a stick
<Lns> but still, how many teachers are apt to boot to a usbstick/dvd? Will they understand what's happening? If LTSP is integrated, will they know what to do?
<nubae> and I think doing remix-edu would be really cool
<Lns> Basically maybe my question is, who specifically are we marketing to ? IT Admins at schools, teachers, ?
<nubae> Lns: no, thats a sysadmins job, doing the lts part
<nubae> ltsp
<LaserJock> Lns: I think the Edubuntu-on-a-stick would be for marketing
<LaserJock> i.e. "this is what you get when you  install Edubuntu"
<nubae> right
<nubae> but we also need to expand what we're offering
<Lns> Who's gonna pay for the usb sticks?
<Lns> or will it be a usb image downloadable?
<LaserJock> Lns: Edubuntu would provide the images
<nubae> we can't continue having 'just the officially supported apps by canonical'
<LaserJock> like the netbook remix for instance
<LaserJock> nubae: we can but we should have more
<nubae> netbookremix-edu would be a totally original product
<LaserJock> we could fairly easily limit ourselves to Main apps for a USB stick
<nubae> something we could really compete with
<nubae> and then offering fatclient images of various types that run over ltsp would also give us an edge
<LaserJock> well, we need to really look at feasibility here
<nubae> I'm just thinking how we can make a difference
<LaserJock> we have *barely* maintained an addon cd
 * Lns thinks we should get together a video team and produce YT vids
<nubae> thats easily done... as long as we have the space on the dvd
<nubae> LaserJock: well, its a problem of not enough people, and if that problem now seems to be going away and people are comitting themselves as it seems they are
<LaserJock> well, we need enough of the right people
<LaserJock> it's really really not as trivial as people are saying to maintain .iso/images in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> there's lots of QA involved and you have to be on top of things
<LaserJock> so we should be careful about making targets that we are in no position to be able to implement
<LaserJock> not that we should ditch long-term goals
<nubae> sure learning objects would be great... on opensuse-edu we've created a moodle instance and mahara and we are focusing on putting the wiki stuff all through there instead, to foster and encourage moodle's usage
<LaserJock> but rebuilding Edubuntu *has* to start small or it won't leave the ground
<nubae> LaserJock: the problem is we dont really have a distro and unless we have one its gonna die out... I know u understand that
 * Lns sighs
<nubae> this idea of addons is great practically, but very bad in every other sense
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> I mean, we even came to the conclusion the other day that they might as well just install the packages from the ubuntu repo
<nubae> that just makes edubuntu a bunch of metapackages
<nubae> is that what we want the world to think edubuntu is?
<nubae> a bundling of already existing apps?
<alkisg> (08:30:10 Î¼Î¼) Lns: What ever happened to simply making a very easy to follow guide to configuring your system? => I've made one, and it's 100 pages. Not easy for a teacher to follow. With a live dvd similar to what nubae proposed, a teacher can see the end result in his lab with no guide, and install it with a very small guide.
<Lns> Can we learn at all from Debian's "Tasks" during install? I.E. LAMP, "web server" "file server" etc
<LaserJock> Lns: we already have them
<LaserJock> we have LTSP, Edubuntu Desktop, and Edubuntu KDE Desktop tasks
<LaserJock> you can, hopefully, install them from the Jaunty Ubuntu DVD
<Lns> LaserJock: k..
<nubae> Debian also makes many mistakes though. One example is Sugar... they are stuck at 0.82 because of one maintainer, meaning we too are stuck at 0.82, while the rest of the world uses the latest Sugar... basically its another lost opportunity to promote edubuntu
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but that doesn't mean all of debian is bad
<Lns> isn't that what PPAs/unofficial repos are for?
<nubae> LaserJock: so do u agreee we should go back to being a distro?
<LaserJock> I'm not positive yet
<LaserJock> I *want* to do that, but I'm not sure how feasible it is in the short term
<nubae> Lns: we are creating the debian packages through opensuse's build service now :-)
<LaserJock> we *could* have gotten Sugar 0.84 in Jaunty
<nubae> there's irony in that, but at least the ubuntu users who want to try the latest sugar will be able to
<Lns> nubae: oook?
<nubae> no we couldnt
<nubae> debian's 0.83 (the dev version of sugar) doesnt even run read or write
<LaserJock> but that has  *nothing* to do with Ubuntu
<nubae> and its because of a debian maintainer decision
<isforinsects> Ah, showed up at the right time
<LaserJock> we didn't have 0.84 because people dropped the ball
<nubae> right, we are bound by a stupid policy
<LaserJock> no
<Lns> lol
<nubae> nah... they couldnt work with debian maintainer
<nubae> thats what really happened
<LaserJock> I *had* the approvals right there but the people who were doing the work didn't get back to me
<LaserJock> the 0.84 packages had a python problem that wasn't fixed
<LaserJock> therefor I couldn't approve the upload, that's what happened
<nubae> well that too, but in the end even if glucose had worked, the main activities still dont
<nubae> what we need to look at, is why its working for other distros
<nubae> why is F11 and Mandriva now ahead of us in the edu game?
<LaserJock> because people are there working on it
<nubae> and opensuse so far ahead its not even fun to mention
<bencrisford_> LaserJock: I think we should post meeting details to the ubuntu-devel mailing lists also, so we can get in some fresh developers ?
<LaserJock> we don't lack for ideas, or infrastructure
<Lns> nubae: we get it, you are an opensuse fanboy..no use repeating yourself, jeez =p
<nubae> debian-edu or skolelinux are stuck at ltsp 4.2 due to their massive deployments
<LaserJock> we just can't seem to get people to really step up
<LaserJock> bencrisford_: yeah, although historically there has been little interest so I don't expect too much
<bencrisford_> I'm interested :/
<bencrisford_> :P
<nubae> Lns: I am being realistic here, I am no fanboy of any distro, I have Fedora and ubuntu installed on my laptop
<bencrisford_> im willing to put alot into this project
<nubae> I use opensuse-edu on my desktop
<Lns> since our own community here is obviously much smaller than others' right now, we need to focus on small goals that make sense for the future. we need a solid base before we build an empire
<LaserJock> Lns: agreed
<nubae> so when I see people saying hey hello can I help, we need to tell them what they can do, but before that we must have it clear for ourselves what we want this community to be
<nubae> is it a distro, a set of packages, some themese?
<LaserJock> it is very valuable to look at Fedora and openSUSE and see what they're doing right, but we also need to recognize that we aren't them
<nubae> what the hell are we
<Lns> we are people who want to see ubuntu and educational applications in schools
<Lns> that doesn't mean we need a distro
<nubae> so then lets talk about what that means technicaly, since we are all pretty much devs in here
<Lns> it doesn't mean we need a huge community right now to "keep up with the jones'"
<nubae> well, I believe it does
<Lns> i'm not a dev
<Lns> i'm a sysadmin :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: going full-distro for karmic might be a bit soon, judging by factors that you and ogra listed
<nubae> I think edubuntu should have 2 versions, a lightweight for older machines and a nice chunky one with everything educational in it
<Lns> I can barely write bash scripts =p
<nubae> we can pick and choose what to put in there based on our experiences of running the software
<highvoltage> maybe it should be a target for 10.04, since it will be LTS
<nubae> highvoltage: I agree, we should go back to beta mode, and start building from the bottom up
<nubae> take a live image and base the edu on that, both remix and normal
<highvoltage> nubae: *nod*. I also agree with the lightweight options. bothe xfce and lxde has its merits
<Lns> What kinds of relationships do we have with all of the upstream edu app devs?
<Lns> How do we interact with them?
<highvoltage> Lns: afaik LaserJock has been in regular contact with kde edu people and some of the science projects
<nubae> and I've been highly involved with sugar
<nubae> so both of those roads lead to new groupings of people
<highvoltage> I think we can pull morgs in a bit closer as well
<highvoltage> (gtg, bbl)
<nubae> At sugar camp, people were all asking, what happned to ubuntu
<nubae> what cant I run sugar on it
<nubae> It was just sad to have to say, well because of politics and people it never happened
<isforinsects> If you would like help with recruitment, I could probably help.
<isforinsects> If you care about getting sugar into ubuntu, I can get you XO's
<alkisg> I know of a lot of Greek teachers that abandonded edubuntu when it stopped being a distro. Also I've heard of a lot of them asking for an educational distro, and there were even some attempts to make an ubuntu-edu-remix. I think if edubuntu became a distro again, some of them would try to contribute to it.
<sbalneav> Back from meeting
<isforinsects> <-- is from OLPC
<bencrisford1> sorry about that
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Did you see the mail I posted to the list?
<isforinsects> The Fedora User Group applied for a large stack of XO's for OLPC/Sugar contributors.  Around 100.
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I'm not sure, what's the name?
<bencrisford1> dunno
<LaserJock> isforinsects: I saw that, I was pretty amazed that OLPC would ship that many?
<bencrisford1> i sent it a few days ago
<bencrisford1> basically just said my skills, and that im willing to put alot into edubuntu
<LaserJock> isforinsects: certainly some XO's would help pump the PR and community
<LaserJock> isforinsects: one of the problems I've seen is making sure people can test stuff out
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you know why they abandoned it?
<LaserJock> also, I got in touch with the ZaReason people
<LaserJock> who build Ubuntu machines (like System76) and they have a choice of having Edubuntu preinstalled
<nubae> isforinsects: u weren't at sugarcamp were u?
<LaserJock> and I asked them what we could do to help them out and they said having a single installation medium would be very helpful
<nubae> why do we need xos though?
<isforinsects> You probably saw that the next revision of the OLPC spin of sugar is going to be a full Fedora+Sugar+Gnome
<nubae> how is that possibly gonna help?
<alkisg> Yes, they don't think an add-on is useful. It's easier to just install the package from synaptic. But they don't even do that, because it gets them those kiddish icons and theme. So they end up selecting manually the edu apps they need.
<isforinsects> OLPC isn't stuck on that decision.
<nubae> alkisg: is a good example of someone in the field
<isforinsects> nubae: no, I was stuck in cambridge
<nubae> ah, too bad would have been nice to meet you
<isforinsects> I'm adam/CanoeBerry's roommate btw.
<nubae> Im the package maintainer for opensuse
<isforinsects> Indeed, I've seen you around, hello.
<LaserJock> well, mostly the XOs would provide some community-building fodder
<nubae> oh... hehe, Adam is a great guy, had some really good conversations with him about szupport infrastructure
<LaserJock> and get Sugar out there in Ubuntu
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Is there an edubuntu marketing team?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: no
 * bencrisford1 thinks there should be
<LaserJock> right now I would say there is no edubuntu anything
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I can cover marketing
<bencrisford1> im reasonable experienced
<nubae> well, look, I don't mind jumping in to maintain sugar for edubuntu, but it has to be as easy as with opensuse, or else the workload will just be too high
<isforinsects> Marketing teams are hard.  Ubuntu's proper has had a really hard time coordinating.
<bencrisford1> i know
<bencrisford1> im part of it :P
<isforinsects> as am I
<nubae> edubuntu is going throiugh a period of re- self discovery
<isforinsects> a mostly quiet one
<bencrisford1> yeah
<nubae> we are trying to tie down what makes us edubuntu
<nubae> but its very hard
<LaserJock> right
<bencrisford1> but im happy to help with marketing, thats what im saying :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: btw, I did see your email
<Lns> why can't we simply start out with edubuntu being 'The educational applications available for Ubuntu' ?
<bencrisford1> i can code docbook too if we want more documentation
<nubae> isforinsects: btw, I would love an xo... I've been waiting one from projectdb for a good 6 months now
<nubae> even though they've been approved
<nubae> maybe u can nudge someone there to send them ;-)
<Lns> IMHO we need to make sure all of these apps are working 100% within Ubuntu before we think about being our own dist
<nubae> Also I'll be at linuxtag in Berlin next month
<nubae> so I'll be meeting with lots of sugar/opensuse/edubuntu people there too
<nubae> Lns: to my knowledge the only thing that doesnt work is proper user management
<nubae> which is what sbalneav is going to tackle
<Lns> nubae: what's wrong with the already included ubuntu user mgmt tools?
<nubae> I sent Laserjock a big set of apps that all work nicely
<Lns> why can't we fix those?
<nubae> thats what he's doing
<Lns> ah
<isforinsects> One of the big big big running issues with educational software is integration of existing content, and Open Educational Resources.
<nubae> he's taking pessulus, sabayon, the user management, and integrating with ldap etc
<Lns> heh..all of those are pretty broken =p
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> there's a lot that doesn't work
<isforinsects> What about a content repo? Being able to install/download a local wikipedia (OLPC has a good slice) and/or Librivox audiobooks?
<isforinsects> Does edubutunu want to even think about things like that?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we have in the past
<nubae> isforinsects: right.... hopefully for LinuxTag we will have changed that a bit, we now (talking on behalf of opensuse again) are putting together a nicely working moodle instance with all there is out there... basically training material for open source stuff
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: how do you think I can contribute to edubuntu based on my email?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: certainly documentation and marketing sounds good
<bencrisford1> ok
<bencrisford1> what about the website?  because ill help with that if you need me to?
<nubae> Lns: rigth they are, which is why he's gonna fix them
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: you familiar with Drupal?
<nubae> bencrisford1: I believe I can give u rights to it
<nubae> but what do u want to do?
<LaserJock> hang on, hang on
<LaserJock> we need to step back here people
<nubae> Most necessary thing is making sure everything is up to date
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: not particurlaly but im sure i can pick it up...  after all the website will need lots of news updates during out 'revolution'
<nubae> ok ok... maybe I'm running to fast
 * nubae steps back
 * bencrisford1 leaps back "is it my fault?" :P
<LaserJock> we need to get our goals/objectives/strategy set
<LaserJock> get people organized around them
<LaserJock> then get to work
<bencrisford1> lol i agree
<nubae> nah, your enthusiasm is what is keeping the project alive
<bencrisford1> but i just wanna find my place in the team
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: right, we just need to build a team first ;-)
<nubae> ok... one thing is, both me and Lns asked to be edubuntu members months ago
<nubae> based on the work both of us have done, I think it makes sense to honour that request
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> Last thing I heard was it was going to be discussed at an irc meeting, and that was a good 5 months ago
<LaserJock> but we have no Edubuntu Council who can approve the requests
<bencrisford1> lets take a vote :D
<bencrisford1> i vote 'yes!'
<nubae> Lns: I'm sure can market and promote to get more peons in
<nubae> as can I
<bencrisford1> :P
 * Lns raises hand
<nubae> but unless we feel this is a community, I don't see no magic happening
<nubae> isforinsects: what is your role at olpc?
 * bencrisford1 is going for a wander
<Lns> sbalneav: Just my $0.02 but if you're thinking about tackling user management, this bug might be a good place to start :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 259163 in gnome-system-tools "users-admin does not sort when Name/Login/Homedir field clicked" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
 * bencrisford1 'll be back soon
<isforinsects> nubae: eer, everything to everyone?  Job roles are ill-defined around here.
<sbalneav> Lns: Thx
<isforinsects> I do advocacy, media relations, volunteer coordination, documentation and occasional coding, patching, packaging etc.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: heya
<nubae> LaserJock: you shold take a look at the user management interface of other distros, they are really much much better than what we have
<LaserJock> ok, so everybody who is willing to package, work on bugs, and maintian software raise your hand
 * isforinsects raises hand
 * alkisg raises hand but only if edubuntu is going to be a live dvd
 * sbalneav raises hand
<sbalneav> I can't package, but I can do the other two.
<LaserJock> alkisg: how about a live USB stick?
<alkisg> LaserJock: no problem, so long as edubuntu focuses on ease of installation, and not just being a set of apps.
<LaserJock> nubae: we don't exactly need new user management interfaces, we just need our existing ones to work :-)
<nubae> well, for schools its really important
<alkisg> E.g. I need a few hours to set up a lab, and I consider myself experienced, I'd like edubuntu to help me with that.
<nubae> the sabayon-pesulus-ldap thing sbalneav is working on will be great
<nubae> something special
 * Lns agrees w/nubae on that
<nubae> I too am only interested if edubuntu becomes its own distro again and not just a set of addon packages
 * Lns doesn't think demands have their place just yet in forming the community
<nubae> well sure they do... I have little free time
<nubae> and that free time I want to put in the right place
<nubae> I'm sure alkisg feels the same way
<alkisg> Lns, if edubuntu is going to be a set of apps, it's totally useless to me...
<Lns> nubae: you need to think of the community goals, not just your own perception of what things should be
<LaserJock> alkisg: why is it useless?
<Lns> Seriously.
<alkisg> LaserJock: a metapackage? how helpful can that be?
<nubae> well let me spell it out better then, for our community to survive, revive and revitalie, we need a distro
<nubae> +1 alkisg
<Lns> heh, nubae the dictator =p
<nubae> its come down to that now LaserJock, we're (you) maintiaing a meta package
<alkisg> I need edubuntu to help me with the serious installation stuff, not just for selecting some apps...
<nubae> Lns: its an opinion
<Lns> alkisg: what can edubuntu help you with that ubuntu doesn't do for installation?
<alkisg> Lns, it can provide me with a menu item to create gpxe boot disks
<alkisg> Just a silly example, but a simple teacher may need an afternoon for that.
<Lns> alkisg: why can't that be a package for ubuntu?
<alkisg> It can help me with ldap
<alkisg> Or with ltsp
<nubae> this perception of ubuntu being all thats required for a school is something I dont get... if thats the case then just let edubuntu die and lets move on to whatever else
<nubae> edubuntu should be a serious educational distribution with goals that are likewise about empowering teachers and students
<alkisg> Lns, an experienced administrator doesn't need edubuntu. A teacher needs edubuntu, because he doesn't know all the steps he'll need to make his lab working.
<alkisg> E.g. a teacher may want to use scratch and not even know that it exists
<nubae> yeah, thats where lessons and lesson plans in moodle or a wiki or something woudl come in handy
<nubae> I know u are working on this
<nubae> I mean gathering content setting it up
<nubae> it would of course be much better if we had a central repo for such material
<Lns> I'm not saying ubuntu is everything anyone needs for an edu environment, but it doesn't make sense to me to maintain an entire distro just to support a few install options and packaged apps. A wiki, HOWTO video, anything else would be sufficient. Personally I think k/x/edu/buntu just confuses people
<Lns> People KNOW what Ubuntu is much more than edubuntu, or xubuntu, or kubuntu. We need to ride that wave and add edu spice to it
<sbalneav> Look, this is so simple.
<alkisg> That would be sufficient for an IT administrator, not a teacher. My ubuntu/ltsp guide is now 100 pages, not easy for a teacher
<sbalneav> At it's base level, edubuntu is just a meta package.
<Lns> alkisg: maybe you should revise it ;)
<sbalneav> we distrubute (curreently) the meta package on a standalone disk, with it's dependencies
<alkisg> Lns, do you really think that a teacher may install LTSP over ubuntu without a really long guide?
<alkisg> I think you overestimate us... :)
<sbalneav> the people who want a bootable cd/dvd just need to take the metapackage, combine it with an ubuntu bootable imagem and distrubute that.
<nubae> sbalneav: yeah exactly, whats the point of that even, me and laserjock often get into talks where we wonder why anyone bothers downloading the cd
<sbalneav> why not let the people who WANT the bootable dvd focus on DOING it, and the people who want to work on the SOFTWARE and the metapackage work on THAT?
<nubae> see... I don't buy this... well the ubuntu name is better than edubuntu
<Lns> +1 sbalneav , /me stands corrected
<nubae> I'll tell u why not because the perception of a community is so strong that if we say we as the community distribute edubuntu our distro, based on ubuntu for education
<nubae> its a much stronger statement
<sbalneav> alkisg: We've got probably 65% of that when you re-combine the LTSP upstream doco with the edubuntu handbook.
<nubae> yep, I thik we all know what needs to happen
<alkisg> sbalneav: yes, but it's too big for a teacher. It should be more plug-n-play
<nubae> can we make roles and split the work that way?
<Lns> alkisg: what about the ltsp installer for ubuntu alternate?
<nubae> especially so the new guys practially begging to do something can start?
<alkisg> Lns, that's what I use in my  manual
<Lns> alkisg: what's so hard with that method?
<Lns> that's as plug n play as you can get
<alkisg> Lns, getting Greek in the ldm screen?
<Lns> that's a different can of worms...
<nubae> Lns: surely u understand that a live cd/stick is going to be easier
<alkisg> Removing users from the audio group?
<alkisg> Changing dhcpd.conf if you only have 1 switch?
<alkisg> etc etc
<nubae> easy-ltsp script isnt so bad in the end, can be used for those scared of the command line
<Lns> alkisg: what about patching the installer then to accommodate that, rather than reinventing the wheel?
<alkisg> Question: suppose that me, nubae and 10 others want to start making a bootable edubuntu dvd. Will it be called edubuntu, or is it something outside edubuntu?
<nubae> well as far as I know edubuntu is not trademarked
<Lns> alkisg: removing users from audio group is basic group mgmt
<alkisg> Lns, no, it's a setting in gnome-system-tools
<nubae> Lns: a teacher doesnt do that
<nubae> I just ave this feeling everyone wants to go in different directions
<Lns> if a teacher is installing an LTSP environment, i'd hope they would be up for some basic user mgmt...
<Lns> I'm seriously up for whatever. I'm just playing devil's advocate to make our mission a bit more clear :)
<nubae> so what does it boil down to? We had a constructive afternoon talking about what we were going to do and how we were going to do it
<sbalneav> I think if you want to make this simple, that is, simple for US to develop, and for end users to maintain, you have to take skolelinux's viewpoint...
<nubae> whats the next step
<sbalneav> you do things OUR way.
<nubae> well, hang on a sec... skolelinux is a much bigger community
<sbalneav> if you're going to set up an edubuntu lab, the thin clients MUST be on a singel switch of their own
 * LaserJock was eating lunch, finishing backscroll
<nubae> and in some wayss they can't upgrade easily due to that
<nubae> we are small lean, and can be a bit more progressive
<sbalneav> you MUST use our ldap, with no AD integration, etc etc etc.
<alkisg> sbalneav: why "MUST" ?
<nubae> there aren't that many edubuntu installs, I'm sure
<alkisg> E.g. I know teachers that use their laptops as servers, because they're on that school only for 2 days per week
<Lns> Ease of install vs. flexibility...ah, the age old balance
<sbalneav> alkisg: because otherwise, we devolve into having to solve every single possible edge case that edubuntu might go into
<alkisg> They can't change the cabling
<sbalneav> why can't they?
<alkisg> Because they're guest teachers
<sbalneav> skolelinux requires that they use 10.0.0.x
<sbalneav> with no other dhcp servers on that subnet
<Lns> alkisg: guest teachers setting up a lab?
<sbalneav> if you want to do it differently, then your on your own.  you can use skolelinux as a base, but our SUPPORTED situation is X
<alkisg> Lns, sure, with my manual they can just plug their laptops as ltsp-servers and start their lesson :)
<nubae> sbalneav: I'm with u on that... thats what opensuse does right now
<LaserJock> if I may, I think it'd be helpful if we stay away from LTSP implementation stuff
<nubae> basically they have a methodology that is different from other distros, but it all works
<alkisg> sbalneav: Well, and dnsmasq just supported proxydhcp, which can be used in any setting, with an existing dhcp server, with dynamic ip etc. Why should we limit it to 10.0.0.x ?
<LaserJock> partly because it's just too complicated for what we're trying to accomplish here
<nubae> LaserJock: see, I disagree there... LTSP is the core for me
<LaserJock> why?
<nubae> I woudl never ever consider setting up a school without it
<LaserJock> LTSP != education
<LaserJock> school != education
<nubae> I might consider giving children sticks also, to take home
<nubae> but in the classroom, thin terminal it must be... its just not mangable otherwise
<LaserJock> there are a lot of netbooks and 1to1 type stuff going on
<LaserJock> LTSP is very powerful and a common use case
<nubae> yep... and we'll find solutions for that
<LaserJock> but i think it's a *big* mistake to center everything around the LTSP use case
<nubae> well, certainly not everything
<nubae> but it fits hand in hand
<LaserJock> sorta
<nubae> I mean, llike alkisg already said, you wouldnt install edubuntu addons without an LTSP server already there
<LaserJock> the discussion so far around "why do we need installation media" was "to make LTSP easier"
<LaserJock> lots of people use edubuntu addon without LTSP
<nubae> well opensuse has it in their livedvd and it works out of the box, bascially it doesnt get easier
<bencrisford1> back
<Lns> yeah, I see tons of ppl in the list installing edubuntu at home on a single pc
<alkisg> LaserJock: I agree. edubuntu should contain both LTSP and non-LTSP versions, both LDAP and non-LDAP installations, both fat clients and non-fat clients... that's why it needs to be a distro, to take care of all this installation stuff
<LaserJock> again, I think we need to back out and look at what our real goals and objectives are
<sbalneav> and now we're back to the age old problem
<nubae> alkisg: well put
<LaserJock> alkisg: but we *can't* take care of that
<alkisg> Why not?
<LaserJock> who's gonna do it!!!
<sbalneav> WHO'S GOING TO DO ALL OF THIS FANCY HIGH FALUTIN STUFF?!?!!!?!?!?!!?!
<alkisg> People are already doing it
<alkisg> They're just not calling it edubuntu anymore
<LaserJock> we barely got away with 1 LTSP setup
<nubae> LaserJock: if we're gonna be stuck in limbo, and we're not going to make decisions, what's the point here?
<nubae> what are we discussing?
<alkisg> I've seen maybe 5 different greek ubuntu/edu remixes this year, because edubuntu is now an add-on cd which nobody here uses
<LaserJock> what are our goals
<LaserJock> what are our target audiences
<LaserJock> what technologies can we use to deliver
<LaserJock> how can we build a community to implement it all
<LaserJock> "be a distro" is an implementation detail, not a goal
<Lns> Edu-Buntu....Education...Ubuntu...
<LaserJock> ok, that's a start
<alkisg> LaserJock: if we start with "edubuntu is a distro", people can put their brick in the edubuntu-house. Not everything has to happen with the "first release"
<LaserJock> alkisg: but what will it be a distro of?
<alkisg> Ubuntu focused on education
<alkisg> E.g. nubae may put an option to install sugar or not.
<LaserJock> ok, but again
<Lns> sbalneav got it right: why not let the people who WANT the bootable dvd focus on DOING it, and the people who want to work on the SOFTWARE and the metapackage work on THAT?
<LaserJock> we can't exactly do that right now
<alkisg> Lns, sure, some of us are going to do that in any case, but it would be nice to cooperate
<Lns> A community has many different people who all specialize in accomplishing different goals
<LaserJock> maintaining a distro is very very difficult
<LaserJock> and frankly nobody in this community is currently up to the skill level needed
<alkisg> E.g. this summer I'm either going to make a greek ubuntu/ltsp/edu remix, or help in edubuntu-live-dvd
<alkisg> ...if it comes to be
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody will deny that we'd like to have a live media
<LaserJock> or that a full distro is desirable over an addon
<Lns> Here's my personal specialty: I deploy Ubuntu and LTSP on top of it in schools. I hear what works, what doesn't, and report upstream in bug reports. I customize environments.
<LaserJock> we didn't create the addon because we thought it'd be better than a full distro
<LaserJock> we did it because we couldn't really make the distro thing work anymore
<isforinsects> I think that looking at end goals would help this conversation
<LaserJock> but again, the choice of using DVDs/CDs/USB images/metapackages are really an implementation detail
<isforinsects> Why is Ubuntu important to this group?
<alkisg> that's also an implementation detail :)
<isforinsects> I like ubuntu because it has a wide install base, and has a lot of documentation available for a wide array of types of users
<Lns> isforinsects: Ubuntu is important to me because LTSP is nicely integrated and works easily. It has a nice, clean, streamlined interface.
<isforinsects> Ok, so is Ubuntu a sub feature of the Education goal?
<LaserJock> hmm, how do you mean?
<isforinsects> we/you also need to define Education
<isforinsects> that one is a lot harder
<isforinsects> We seem to mean different things
<LaserJock> ok, did everybody read my strategy doc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> at least parts 1-3
<bencrisford1> yep
<sbalneav> nubae: wb
 * isforinsects reads
<LaserJock> is there anything wrong with it?
<nubae> yeah stupid internet connection :-)
<nubae> (20:53:06) Nubae: eo
<nubae> (20:53:36) Nubae: que tal estas alli en casita brasilena?
<nubae> (20:54:02) Nubae: me gustaria comprar un vuelo para ira visitar te :-( te hecho mucho demenos
<nubae> oops
<nubae> heh
<nubae> (20:48:31) Nubae: Well I for one want to work on stateless connections
<nubae> (20:48:45) Nubae: ie... when a user is connected to a ltsp server, and disconnects his  netbook
<nubae> (20:49:22) Nubae: he immediately works locally, when he logs back on the server and his laptop synch and they continue working
<nubae> (20:49:42) Nubae: part of this has been solved already using xrdp
<nubae> (20:50:23) Nubae: the last part is a cache of some sort locally and on the server so they can synch up
<nubae> (20:50:58) Nubae: And I'd also like to see the latest version of sugar in edubuntu, and a better user management interface, groupings, lockdowns, etc
<dogi> griasdenk
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: want me to sort marketing?  because if we are gonna have our 'revolution' we need a following - and therefore publicity
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well, I think that will come
<LaserJock> right now we're trying to figure out what we're gonna market :-)
<isforinsects> hola dogi
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: but yes, some good marketing/publicity will be quite important and the  help will be very appreciated
<LaserJock> the problem that we've constantly seen, and sbalneav likes to point out, is that we've got no lack for ideas
<LaserJock> what we lack is hand implementing
<LaserJock> we've gone down the revolution road a few times
<isforinsects> I see two goals in the opening of the strategy doc
<Lns> I need to go..i'll backscroll when I get back :)
<isforinsects> Edu-Applications in Ubuntu, presentation/integration of applications in edubuntu
<LaserJock> right
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Shall I make a lp edubuntu-marketing team?  I know its jumping the gun a bit, but it'll let people know we are reforming
 * dogi likes the idea of  sugar in edubuntu, too :) ... := subuntu = sugar + edubuntu
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: it's jumping the gun too much. we've had lots of problems with having too many LP teams already
 * sbalneav pounds head on desk
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: let's get things organized first
<bencrisford1> ok sure
<isforinsects> dogi, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument#Focus%203:%20Sugar
<bencrisford1> brb
<LaserJock> so even though the strategy doc is not finished
<LaserJock> I think it pretty much has the goals and objectives that the Edubuntu community is after
<isforinsects> What are some things that Edubuntu is *not*?
<LaserJock> wow, good question
<LaserJock> it's not a completely separate project from Ubuntu
<isforinsects> Ok, that works
<LaserJock> it's not really about making new educational software
<isforinsects> Oh hi reubencaron_
<isforinsects> Good
<isforinsects> that's a big one
<LaserJock> I don't think it's supposed to be one-size-fits-all
<reubencaron_> isforinsects: hi, just lurking
<LaserJock> i.e. it should be flexible enough for a range of uses
<isforinsects> Example: I am interested in convincing people that educational content in ubuntu repo's is a good idea.
<LaserJock> and it's not closed source/non-free/Microsoft/Apple :-)
<isforinsects> Right, LaserJock it needs to be a wide open playing field for contributors.  But under the auspicies of edubuntu, you need to limit the focus *somehow*.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and *that's* what I wanted to discuss
<LaserJock> because I feel like Edubuntu is too big for the size of community we're going to start out with
<isforinsects> Let me frame where I'm coming from as well.  I'm from OLPC (as I mentioned), I think that OLPC/SugarLabs has a valid interest, but Education, technology and Open Content are what I am about in general.
<LaserJock> that's why I sort of jettison a lot of emphasis on LTSP
<LaserJock> LTSP works, and is a big part of the landscape, but I don't know that Edubuntu has the resources to focus too much on LTSP specifically
<isforinsects> I'm not reall a part of this community *yet*, so I don't want to try to direct what Edubuntu is, but I would like to help this conversation.
<isforinsects> ok, so what else is edubuntu *not*?
<isforinsects> or what else *is* edubuntu in a very very broad sense
<isforinsects> So edubuntu can't spend a lot of resources on the thin client lab model.  Ok.
<LaserJock> well
<isforinsects> Is edubuntu about documentation outside of the repo's?
<isforinsects> I'm not saying that edubuntu is *not* LTSP.
<LaserJock> I think Edubuntu can spend time making sure that LTSP works correctly
<isforinsects> is edubuntu testing and feedback from users/teachers/testers?
<LaserJock> yes to those
<LaserJock> docs and testing/feedback are huge
<LaserJock> because even if we can't fix the problems we can at least help direct to somebody who can
<LaserJock> i.e. KDE devs have come to us asking for feedback from teachers on how KDE could be made better for them
<sbalneav> Well, and that's where I have traditionally come in.
<LaserJock> what I *want* to say is that Edubuntu is everything Education in the Ubuntu project
<LaserJock> but I think realistically that's not feasible for the time-being
<isforinsects> That's good marketing, that's not a good plan.
<LaserJock> exactly
<isforinsects> Education would cover teaching people about Ubuntu, which is kinda covered in part by Canonical's marketing and partially by the doc teams
<LaserJock> ah yes, there is that confusion
<isforinsects> sbalneav: how does interaction with testing groups and teachers work with edubuntu?
<LaserJock> I talked a little bit with Belinda from Canonical about that
<LaserJock> there's a difference between education *about* Ubuntu and education *using* Ubuntu
<isforinsects> Does anyone know Joe Feinstein at Canonical? he may be joe6 or something like that?
<LaserJock> not me
<LaserJock> a significant issue, from my perspective, is that we've traditionally out-marketed our technical ability
<LaserJock> I've seen lots of initiatives and community-building things happen
<isforinsects> It's always helpful to file lots of bugs, if even to use to recruit new talent.
<LaserJock> but very little actually ends up making a technical difference
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it does
<isforinsects> Right, in a way.
<LaserJock> but we also need people to work on the bugs
<LaserJock> throughout Edubuntu's history the number of actual developers has never been more than 2
<isforinsects> ooooouch
<isforinsects> not including packagers?
<isforinsects> what about projects like GASP?
<LaserJock> that's the number of people who could upload
<isforinsects> Is that an administration bottleneck?
<LaserJock> i.e. were in MOTU or Ubuntu Core Dev
<isforinsects> Oh, gotcha
<LaserJock> no, mostly interest and getting current devs some time to develop more devs
<LaserJock> for total "people who contribute to technical stuff" we've probably never had more than 5
<LaserJock> we've had a number of doc people and marketing/advocacy/support types but that's kinda dwindled
<LaserJock> but all the marketing and documentation in the world won't help you if you're software is crap
<LaserJock> ogra was really the only one that ever got things in real good shape
<LaserJock> and some of that was because he was full time
<sbalneav> Which is the reason why I've always been of the opinion that we ought to fix what we already have, as opposed to simply widening the scope.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I personally wouldn't mind if we picked a specific target and went with that for a release
<LaserJock> then widened slowly from there
<sbalneav> right, and alot of the work that was done early on was with the early crowd (ogra, myself, jammcq, etc) working on LTSP5
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you guys picked something (LTSP5) and did it very well
<LaserJock> and Edubuntu took off
<sbalneav> exactly
<LaserJock> for the last year or so Edubuntu has done everything ... poorly
<pygi> hi LaserJock, sbalneav
<pygi> nice to see you folks :)
<sbalneav> Is this the point where I take a sip from the wrong chalice and I turn into a skeleton and get blown away?
<LaserJock> lol
<sbalneav> hello pygi
<LaserJock> hi Mario
<LaserJock> I don't think LTSP is a good choice for the "thing we do well"
<sbalneav> Now, here's what I'd suggest.
<pygi> iscsi burning then? :p
<LaserJock> partly because upstream is now pretty solid, and I don't think we need to revolutionize things again
<sbalneav> 1) nubae and alkisg really REALLY want a live CD/DVD
<sbalneav> ok, it's theirs.
<sbalneav> 2) I really REALLY want to get sabayon fixed, and make g-s-t work with ldap
<sbalneav> OK, I and anyone else can work on that
<sbalneav> 3) LaserJock wants Edu apps, and the metapackage solid
<sbalneav> Why don't we, say, take 2 months, keep in contact, and see where we get with each of our little projects in that time?
<sbalneav> we meet weekly, and status report things to death, and we can cross discuss anything that needs discussing
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Maybe excempting you, since you've got a dissertation to finish
<LaserJock> how about this
<LaserJock> we should use the RoadMap or TODO wiki page
<LaserJock> everybody puts on it what they're willing to work on for Karmic
<LaserJock> then we do as sbalneav said with reporting
<LaserJock> we could use blueprints but that might be a bit overkill
<LaserJock> I would also like to have a wishlist with items that *should* get done but nobody has yet picked up
<sbalneav> I'm fine with that.
<LaserJock> ... so for the meeting Friday people should have a list ready of what they're willing to work on
<LaserJock> docs, marketing, package, bug fixing, etc.
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> *anything* people want to contribute is welcome
<pygi> sbalneav: can't we have a BOF or something at UDS?
<alkisg> LaserJock: so it's ok if me, nubae and some others start with an edubuntu live dvd?
<alkisg> Won't there be redistribution problems? name, hosting etc?
<LaserJock> well, yeah
<LaserJock> you guys will need to figure out how to do that
<LaserJock> or get help or whatever
<LaserJock> but basically the idea would be to say "if you can get it done, go for it"
<alkisg> Well, before investing a few months we should first make sure that someone will host the edubuntu dvd
<alkisg> I don't know who to contact for this.
<LaserJock> well, cjwatson and slangasek would be good people to talk with
<LaserJock> frankly I don't think the chances are very good
<LaserJock> Edubuntu got dropped for Jaunty from the normal mirrors
<LaserJock> in favor of Ubuntu Netbook Remix
<LaserJock> so it's now just on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<alkisg> OK, but that's where we should start. If we don't get hosting, there's no point in even starting it.
<LaserJock> if there wasn't room for the CD .iso I'm not sure there will be for a DVD
<LaserJock> however
<LaserJock> there is the Ubuntu DVD
<nubae> LaserJock: we can use the suse studio service
<alkisg> And I don't know if canonical will let us keep the "edubuntu" name if we host it in sourceforge or wherever.
<nubae> but not sure if they allow foreign builds
<nubae> I'll have to check
<LaserJock> I really would suggest not hosting .isos from outside Ubuntu
<nubae> but yes it would be interesting to have at least edubuntu on a stick with a set of apps we all agree on
<LaserJock> we can talk with Canonical about hosting
<nubae> ok... what about the set of apps I sent you
<LaserJock> and talk to Xubuntu perhaps
<nubae> what do u think about packaging those as -extras?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I think that's perhaps doable
<alkisg> LaserJock: you say "(1) ubuntu won't host it, (2) don't host it elsewhere, and (3) do it if you can". Those are incompatible...
<LaserJock> I'm not saying Ubuntu won't host it
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that it's not a trivial thing to just add a DVD
<nubae> I think he refered to foreign isos
<LaserJock> I would strongly suggest looking to see if the Ubuntu DVD can be used for your purposes
<alkisg> No, it doesn't even have language support
<nubae> so does that mean that a decisions been made to continue with the status quo?
<LaserJock> since Edubuntu is at least 90% Ubuntu it would make less sense to duplicate all that
<LaserJock> nubae: at this point I don't think there is any status quo
<nubae> you're still thinking from a technical perspective
<nubae> and not marketing/comercial perspective
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> it doesnt matter that its 90% the same
<LaserJock> oh it does
<nubae> the changes required are interesting themes
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> colour adaptations
<nubae> fonts/icons
<nubae> something to make it its own
<LaserJock> but convincing Ubuntu mirrors to duplicat 3+GB for each arch/release/ etc. is a *big* problem
<nubae> really brand it as an edu thing
<LaserJock> what I'm trying to say is I think getting your own Edubuntu branded DVD is highly unlikely
<LaserJock> but modifying the Ubuntu DVD to suit your goals may be possible
<nubae> what is stopping us?
<alkisg> LaserJock: if we get a lot of bandwidth, that means we're successful.
<nubae> aye
<LaserJock> look, I'll be blunt
<LaserJock> if you host the .iso elsewhere it won't be Edubuntu
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is part of Ubuntu and uses Ubuntu's infrastructure
<LaserJock> we *can* talk with other derivatives to see what they're doing
<LaserJock> and how they're mitigating issues
<LaserJock> but "well, let's just host it on sourceforge" is a bad idea
<LaserJock> a successful USB image would probably work out
<LaserJock> but a DVD is a *major* commitment for hosts/mirrors
<LaserJock> Kubuntu doesn't even have its own DVD
<nubae> LaserJock: for me its about making a decision whether to continue on this plaform, or move over to something else where I'm given the liberty to make a difference
<alkisg> Why is a DVD different than a USB with concern to hosting?
<LaserJock> alkisg: a DVD is generally 4.2 GB a USB image is generall 1-2GB
<LaserJock> nubae: you *can* make a difference
<nubae> in doesnt have to be
<LaserJock> I sent out tons of emails about how people can contribute and make things better
<nubae> the opensuse-edu dvd is 2.2 gigs
<alkisg> I don't think we're going to decide what to put in based on the available size
<nubae> not 2
<LaserJock> *nobody* stepped up
<nubae> sorry not 4
<nubae> stepped up to what? we're sitting here, discussing this now and I've asked many times about what to do
<nubae> I'm not even considered an edubuntu member
<LaserJock> and I've said over and over, we *have* to get the apps well maintained
<nubae> so step up to what?
<LaserJock> we *have* to get metapackages in shape
<alkisg> LaserJock: not everyone is interested in maintaining apps
<LaserJock> we *have* to get documentation and the website updated
<LaserJock> we *have* to get development release testing and bug fixing going
<LaserJock> what media we end up using to deliver the product is secondary to *having* a product
<nubae> well, for me it just sounds like we're going to be staying in the status quo... setting up a metapackage with the apps I proposed wouldn't take long I guess
<nubae> right, which is why I've made very specific ideas on what to do
<LaserJock> I don't think we're staying in the status quo
<LaserJock> I'm saying I think we need to start with where we're at right now
<nubae> package ltsp together with edubuntu
<nubae> and sugar
<nubae> make fat client images available for various scenarios
<LaserJock> right now it's not feasible to just jump into an Edubuntu branded Live DVD
<LaserJock> perhaps we can get there
 * isforinsects scrolls back
<LaserJock> but I'm trying to get at what can be done for Karmic
<nubae> welll, then what are we gonna do, for karmic again, just modify the metapackage a bit?
<LaserJock> ubuntu-edu-* should need only minor tweaks
<LaserJock> we need MIRs for any more apps we want in them
<LaserJock> ubuntu-edu-*-extras needs to be created and populated
<LaserJock> the apps need to get maintained
<LaserJock> gcompris is in bad shape
<LaserJock> moodle is in bad shape
<LaserJock> sabayon is toast
<nubae> I actually met the gcompris guy over the weekend
<alkisg> LaserJock: we don't have resources to make a remix, but we do have the resources to fix bugs?
<nubae> he's been very heavily optimising his package for Sugar
<nubae> but he also didn't see much future for edubuntu in its current state
<LaserJock> alkisg: what's the point of making a remix if the apps that it's made up of are crap?
<alkisg> I don't think edubuntu is about fixing bugs.
<LaserJock> nubae: I know
<alkisg> That's upstream
<LaserJock> no
<nubae> who says they are crap?
<LaserJock> you
<LaserJock> Sugar is messed up
<LaserJock> gcompris, moodle, sabayon, etc. again
<nubae> yeah and sugar wont get into edubuntu
<LaserJock> why not?
<nubae> because of politics
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> that's not true at all
<LaserJock> we *can* do it
<nubae> the debian maintainer wants to stay at 0.82
<LaserJock> that's fine
<nubae> yes it is true, unless we fork, its staying at a shitty release
<LaserJock> we don't have to hold to Debian
<LaserJock> I've said it a million times
<nubae> well I have no interest in 0.82
<LaserJock> *if* people step up there is no reason why we can't do it
<LaserJock> 0.84 was *there* but nobody stepped up to finish it
<LaserJock> there was just a couple python bugs
<isforinsects> also the Sugar devs are really stepping up on packageability, trying to make it not so integrated with the very very custom fedora for OLPC
<sbalneav> Just out of curiousity, who would STOP sugar from getting into edubuntu if there would be working packages?
<LaserJock> there are currently 271 open bugs
<nubae> actually, this is something I know quite a lot about, in sugar we have created a mechanism whereby from git to packaging is automated via the opensuse build service
<LaserJock> we need to knock that down to < 50 bugs, IMO
<nubae> we decided to go this way (upstream) so that maintenance and packaging would be totally automatic... it will be up to the maintainers of various distros if they want reinvent the wheel
<bencrisford1> 271 open bugs in..?  i only just got back?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: in Edubuntu packages
<nubae> oBS can spit out to any distro and any architecture, so it just makes sense for us
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but that doesn't help Edubuntu
<LaserJock> well, it does
<nubae> also, oBS is gpl, so if we wanted we could even create our own cloud for using it
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: If we all start working on them we can make a dent?
<LaserJock> but we need to get those packages into Edubuntu
<nubae> it should help edubuntu since we can put in those packages from that external repo
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: sure
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> creating and maintaining a live DVD for Edubuntu is going to be way harder than getting packages fixed up
<LaserJock> you guys are welcome to work on that
<bencrisford1> whats the name of the lp package for edubuntu?
<LaserJock> there isn't any one package
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs will give you the list
<bencrisford1> oh
<bencrisford1> ah ok
<LaserJock> I just think it would be helpful is some people stepped up to work on the packages
<LaserJock> since that is the core of what we're doing
 * highvoltage returns from IRL meeting
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I'll spend some time on bug fixing
<bencrisford1> tommorrow
<bencrisford1> and whenever I get the chance
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: feel free to join the ~edubuntu-bugs team
<nubae> If I knew we were working towards our own release, I'd start packaging sugar for edubuntu
<nubae> but I dont want to do work that will later be disregarded
<LaserJock> ?
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: is that for triaging or fixing?
<LaserJock> nubae: why would it be disregarded?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: whatever you like :-)
 * bencrisford1 is a packaging noob
<bencrisford1> do i just assign it to me?
<bencrisford1> then do the packaging mumbo jumbo
<bencrisford1> then upload it as a patch?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well, you can talk with #ubuntu-bugs on triaging or #ubuntu-motu for packaging
<bencrisford1> to the bug report
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> but most of our stuff is really following up on bugs
<LaserJock> if you're working on a bug report go ahead and assign it to yourself
<bencrisford1> i am
<bencrisford1> ill be back in an hour
<Ahmuck> want a free testing lab?
<Ahmuck> with usability testing cameras?
<LaserJock> I think we might
<Ahmuck> how can you market something that isn't there?
 * Ahmuck is backreading
<alkisg> So nubae, do you want to send an mail to cjwatson about if we can host an edubuntu dvd? (you are more known than me, you'll be taken more seriously). He'll turn us down of course, but at least we'll say that we tried...
<LaserJock> we could discuss exactly what would like to be tried on the mailing list or something
<LaserJock> figuring out the justifications for it all
<alkisg> LaserJock: I'm with nubae on this, i.e. start with something like opensuse dvd
<LaserJock> and maybe then email Mark and Steve Langasek
<alkisg> I've only seen it for half an hour, but it convinced me
<alkisg> That's a more exact description of what we want to do than hours of talking/emailing
<LaserJock> ok, but I think the justification is about why you can't do it with the Ubuntu DVD
<LaserJock> since it already has a live environment
<alkisg> It isn't a live dvd
<LaserJock> and all the Edubuntu apps
<alkisg> I doesn't have ltsp preinstalled
<LaserJock> no, but we wouldn't really want LTSP live
<alkisg> Why not? That's part of our plan...
<LaserJock> but the DVD has all the stuff on it already
<LaserJock> so it's more about presentation
<LaserJock> well, I suppose you could try. I've always been told that LTSP on a live environment is not a good idea
<alkisg> Well, I've seen it live, and it's fine.
<sbalneav> Who's got a live ltsp cd?
<alkisg> opensuse
<alkisg> kiwi-ltsp, but still...
<sbalneav> So they package a chroot as a binary blob on the cd?
<alkisg> nubae, ^^^
<alkisg> I've only seen it for half an hour, didn't see if it used nfs or nbd
<sbalneav> Criminy, I'm looking through gnome-system-tools at the user portion, I can't even see where the heck it adds the user.
<sbalneav> ah, system-tools-backends
<LaserJock> yeah, good luck with that
<sbalneav> Perl happy stuff
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't know Perl at all
<Ahmuck> edubuntu should focus less on apps and more on how the system works and apps install, etc.
<LaserJock> and I don't plan on learning any time soon
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: really?
<LaserJock> I mean, I know there's a lot with integration and how to get the stuff installed
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: some would say that focussing on upstream educational applications is the most important thing edubuntu should focus on
<LaserJock> but it's really not *that* hard to install stuff
<alkisg> g-s-t has a perl backend for a C front-end? Yikes...
<LaserJock> but it's pretty important that once you install it that it works I'd thing
<LaserJock> *think
<alkisg> So do you think if all bugs are fixed, people will use the edubuntu add-on cd?
<alkisg> I still think they'll use synaptic and install the apps they want...
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but that's fine
<sbalneav> I know some perl.
<sbalneav> On a more practical front.
<LaserJock> I honestly don't care all that much *how* people get the Edubuntu apps
<LaserJock> I just want to make sure that they are easy to get and that they *do* work right when they are installed
<sbalneav> LaserJock: How's your time, with the disertation these days?  Would you be willing to hold a packaging tutorial again? For those of us in here?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I think perhaps a better idea would be to get hooked up with the MOTU stuff
<LaserJock> I think they've been doing some Packaging 101 stuff
<LaserJock> it'd be better for my time constraints and you'd learn the latest in packaging as opposed to my ancient techniques ;-)
<alkisg> pbuilder works wonders in packaging
<sbalneav> So, hang out in #ubuntu-motu?
<sbalneav> I have never got packaging.  Partially because I'm stupid, and partially because... ok, I'll be honest.  It's totally because I'm stupid.
<LaserJock> ask #ubuntu-motu when the next packaging tutorial session will be
<alkisg> sbalneav: I had a friend doing my first packaging from me, but after that it all became clear... you should do the same :)
<sbalneav> I've tried before, tried and failed.
<sbalneav> I recognize the problem is totally in my seized up neural synapses
 * cbx33 peeks in
<sbalneav> hey hey cbx33
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<LaserJock> holy cow
<alkisg> sbalneav: do you have something specific to package, or you're just looking for general knowledge?
<bencrisford1> hi cbx33
<LaserJock> we had pygi in here earlier, it's like old school in here
<sbalneav> OK, well, for instance.
<pygi> LaserJock: what I did this time? :d
<pygi> :D
<Ahmuck> k, i'm a bit lost already this afternoon
<sbalneav> So, lets say I hack around a bit, and come up with a patch to system-tools-backends to allow for ldap integration.
<Ahmuck> is there a reason were not requiring apps to maintian thier own?
<cbx33> hey peeps
<Ahmuck> is there a ubuntu ltsp group?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: what do you mean?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: if you are stupid then I certainly don't want to know what I am
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: no
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: just stgraber
<sbalneav> How do I get the diff turned into the package?
<Ahmuck> heh, well, that's a major problem
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: and for the rest of Edubuntu I'm the only dev
<alkisg> sbalneav: that's just one little command, I don't have it handy, but it's really *one* command
<Ahmuck> did edubuntu apply for GSOC?
<LaserJock> no
<lfaraone> Ahmuck: other than the fact that in many cases upstream is lazy, or has better stuff to do, or can't support all the bajilllion different distros.
<cbx33> ubuntu as a whole is not doing GSoC
<Ahmuck> would there be any interest in YSOC?
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is not a part of GSoC
<highvoltage> I was just going to say what cbx33 said
<lfaraone> LaserJock: why not?
<LaserJock> not sure
<sbalneav> I could help with LaserJock a lot more than I do, but once I find a problem, I'm in no position to be able to turn it into anything useful for LaserJock
<Ahmuck> ubuntu think they were too good for GSOC?
<Ahmuck> i'd say edubuntu was a perfect example for GSOC
<LaserJock> I would guess because previous years have been a disaster for Ubuntu
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: working with GSoC is lots of work
<Ahmuck> why were they a disaster?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: and it's a big responsibility
<Ahmuck> i know many projects where it works well
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: it's not something that you should take on lightly
<Ahmuck> two in fact where it works very well
<LaserJock> GSoC just really doesn't seem to work with Ubuntu that well
<Ahmuck> i'd be asking why
<LaserJock> I think it's sort of a style/community difference
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: and those are typically the projects that has the resources to do so
<LaserJock> mostly you get a bunch of young people who want to work on Ubuntu
<cbx33> yup
<Ahmuck> lets assume one GSOC student could have been paired with ubuntu-ltsp dev.  that would have created a 1.5 dev on the project
<lfaraone> Ahmuck: we're too large, and it takes too much long term commitment.
<LaserJock> but they're not hooked into the community very well
<LaserJock> and the mentors don't have a good idea of what's going on
<cbx33> Ahmuck: I'd forget GSoC if I were you
<lfaraone> Ahmuck: it makes better sense for upstream (IE LTSP) to do so.
<lfaraone> * i.e.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Ahmuck> how does it make sense for upstream to do so if the project has died?
<lfaraone> Ahmuck: meh.
<Ahmuck> this is where i think there are problems
<LaserJock> a GSoC student isn't going to revive Edubuntu
<Ahmuck> and where i think that 1. goals need to be defined within the community
<lfaraone> Ahmuck: we already have enough trouble managing the volunteers we have. GSoC is not cost-effective for us.
<Ahmuck> 2. if there is no upstream support or devs, fork edubuntu into a purely community focus
<Ahmuck> break it out of ubuntu if ubuntu has no devs or support for it
<LaserJock> well
<highvoltage> there's 0 reason for edubuntu to break away from ubuntu
<LaserJock> the hope is that Edubuntu community produces Ubuntu devs
<LaserJock> to work on Edubuntu
<sbalneav> Forking a project doesn't magically create devs.  If we can't attract devs to what we already HAVE, then how will forking attract more? :)
<cbx33> I think the biggest problem we have is a large userbase...but users != devs
<cbx33> we have alot of people who want to USE it
<cbx33> but not a lot of people who want to DEV for it
<cbx33> DEVing for Educational stuff just isn't cool
<cbx33> is the view
<bencrisford1> hang on guys, i was attracted to this project :P
<cbx33> imho
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: forking may break what appears to be a red tape senario
<cbx33> ++ bencrisford1 ;)
<cbx33> but you are in a minority....mostly people want to work on ubuntu
<bencrisford1> i think DEVing for edu stuff is the new black :P
<LaserJock> we don't have a red tape problem
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: right, but forking also means giving up all the potential support infrastructure we do have right now.
<LaserJock> we have a "nobody is working on anything" problem
<Ahmuck> two things happens with forks.  either the fork makes it and the original dies, or the original goes *yikes* and someone steps up to put more effort into the orginal
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: heh
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: but we're already at "yikes"
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: well, in that case, feel free to fork off edubuntu
<LaserJock> so no need to fork for that
<Ahmuck> i'm not into forking either, but i'm re-considering ubuntu-ltsp as a network platform
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: but edubuntu is going to stay as long as we can do anything about it
<Ahmuck> i'm in decision mode :)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: well, what need to happen for you to stick with Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> it's important to see what things need to change, and then to figure out what we can do to fix them
<Ahmuck> arg, i just got reset
<Ahmuck> so i assume everything i was typing never got seen
<LaserJock> we don't need to fork or drop everything, etc. to fix thing and make them better
<sbalneav> So, question is, if you're reconsidering ubuntu-ltsp as your platform, what would you move to?
<Ahmuck> many people see edubuntu as ubuntu-ltsp
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: i don't know at this point.
<sbalneav> Who's currently doing *os*-ltsp better than ubuntu-ltsp?
<alkisg> sbalneav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Recipe:%20Updating%20An%20Ubuntu%20Package
<Ahmuck> well, i've heard mandriva, opensuse ?
<alkisg> debuild does it all...
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: I personally would like to see edubuntu make an ltsp installation really, really simple, but edubuntu's scope is *SO MUCH* larger than just that
<sbalneav> As far as I know, mandriva doesn't have LTSP5.  At least, no-one from Mandriva's ever come forward in #ltsp that I know of.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: does fedora have a native meukow implementation, or do they use an ubuntu chroot?
<LaserJock> openSUSE is also LTSP 4.2 right?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think they use kiwi which is an ltsp 5 fork
<LaserJock> ah
<highvoltage> (iirc)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Fedora was heavily involved with ltsp5.  However, rumour has it that Fedora/Redhat is coming up with their OWN thin client solution, and have pretty much disappeared from the ltsp5 picture.
<LaserJock> I don't know, I guess I'm just kinda biased
<LaserJock> I just don't care that much personally about LTSP
<LaserJock> I know it's important for people so it'd defiantly part of the Edubuntu mix
<LaserJock> but I view it more as one of the vehicles with which we get educational "stuff" to users
<Ahmuck> what is edbuntu's scope?
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: fedora's ltsp solution is propetary?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I don't know.
<sbalneav> I don't think they have one yet
<Ahmuck> so this afternoon has there been a list of goals decided ?
<Ahmuck> when is the big ubuntu meeting?
<sbalneav> Firday
<Ahmuck> tomorrow? or a week from tomorrow ?
<Ahmuck> er, sorry, this friday?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: I think we need to refactor edubuntu's scope a bit, but "to bring the best of upstream educational programs and content to ubuntu" will probably always be a very big part of it
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: this friday, 22 may
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: I sent a reminder to edubuntu-devel, check your inbox
<Ahmuck> if edubuntu is not focused on ltsp, then the question that needs to be asked does ubuntu itself plan to do anything with ltsp?
<Ahmuck> i'd also be asking why other distros have been dropping it.  to many problems?  ie "redhat"
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: ubuntu already has a super-easy out-of-box ltsp installation
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: it's an installer option on the alternate cd
<Ahmuck> highvoltage: i agree
<Ahmuck> however there are ltsp problems
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: upstream problems?
<Ahmuck> i'm not using edubuntu (kick me if you wish) but a pure ltsp environment at the moment.  i add on the edu packages via aptitude
<sbalneav> Problems WITH ltsp, or problems that arise OUT OF running an ltsp environment?
<Ahmuck> highvoltage: no, problems that arise out of ltsp environment
<Ahmuck> SDL is one, flash is another, system messages, volume control, etc.
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: those are mostly upstream issues, and is better solved through #ltsp and the ltsp community
<sbalneav> Well, what doesn't work on them?  Flash, and volume control work fine for me
<LaserJock> right now I think LTSP is positioned pretty well
<sbalneav> Not sure what you mean by system messahes, but flash works fine for me too
<LaserJock> it's an Ubuntu-wide tool that is often found in educational environments
<LaserJock> as an Edubuntu development community builds I think LTSP will naturally get benefits from that
<sbalneav> LTSP's just plumbing at this point
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> really, it's absolutely no different from OpenOffice.org or Firefox
<LaserJock> ok, so I'm not sure we figured out any real "thing we're going to do really well"
<LaserJock> I'd like to see something that's really going to set Edubuntu apart
<sbalneav> Ahmuck?
<Ahmuck_> i'm here
<highvoltage> LaserJock: imho, and with my experience working with educators, ease of use and usability will go a very, very long way, and I would love it if that makes edubuntu stand out
<Ahmuck_> just a minute
<sbalneav> np
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I'm quite anxious to get started on some posters...
<bencrisford1> :D :P
<Ahmuck> with scribus ?
<bencrisford1> possibly
<bencrisford1> or just gimp
 * Ahmuck is bouncing around classrooms
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think ease-of-use and usability are very in-line with what Ubuntu's all about
<LaserJock> what would be our educational scope?
<LaserJock> like age ranges, types of deployment/installs, etc.?
<Ahmuck_> didn't we cover age ranges about 3 months ago?
<Ahmuck_> you have two type of deployments.  one standalone, and one ltsp
<Ahmuck_> both the installs seem to do well
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I understand what you're saying, I think edubuntu could take it a step further, I don't want the educational scope to get neglected though
<LaserJock> part of the discussion has been that we're spread too thin
<LaserJock> we're not focused
<Ahmuck_> we need 1. system configuration managment, 2. user managment, 3. workstation managment, 4. application managment(!)
<LaserJock> so perhaps "make all of education usable and easy" is a bit too broad
<Ahmuck_> so focus on one area first
<Ahmuck_> make it stable and then move on
<sbalneav> I have to bugger off home for the day.
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: what about educational apps?
<Ahmuck_> what do you mean about the edu apps?
<LaserJock> don't we need them?
<sbalneav> I've just got the packaging guide printed out, I'm going to look at bringing sabayon up to date.
<LaserJock> :-)
<Ahmuck_> there are tons of edu apps out there
<Ahmuck_> actually i wanted to touch on sabayon
<Ahmuck_> in reguards to the edu apps, those left up to the instructor, and the instructor chooses which ones to install and use
<alkisg> sbalneav: do you have a launchpad ppa?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what do you suggest?
<Ahmuck_> or asks the school admin to do so (which may be the science teacher)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: so we shouldn't ship any educational apps?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it's an interesting question
<Ahmuck_> my opinion of edu apps is that the instructors themselves tend to pick what best works for them.  this means for a oss edu linux app to make it, they would have to pass an instuctors litmis test
<Ahmuck_> so to speak
<LaserJock> I would look at what we do well
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: fine, but what does that mean for us?
<Ahmuck_> seriously, if the edu app doesn't fit what an instructor or school needs, why would you expect to convince them to use it
<Ahmuck_> it means you may not know your audience
<LaserJock> obviously
<LaserJock> but we should probably ship some educational apps though, right?
<LaserJock> I really don't see the point of an educational distro that doesn't ship primarily educational apps
<LaserJock> one thing to consider is who our target user is
<highvoltage> LaserJock: imho edu apps are also upstream work that we treat more or less the same as firefox/OOo/ltsp, perhaps with some higher priority though. edubuntu should take what's out there and deliver it well. that's just my opinion though.
<LaserJock> sure
<Ahmuck_> there are two things going on.  one is system management - ltsp, network printing, etc.  a type of network system for schools
<LaserJock> but we're *not* delivering them well is my point
<Ahmuck_> the other is edu apps
<Ahmuck_> imho, one needs to split them
<LaserJock> I'm saying we need to make sure we have the right apps, and that they are in good shape
<Ahmuck_> ltsp is a type of network system, but doesn't include things like moodle, etc.
<Ahmuck_> that would be a type of edu system support
<Ahmuck_> the apps is an pure end user system
<LaserJock> right
<Ahmuck_> then you have the inbetween, ie, the teachers, who need to see test scores of the apps,e tc.  some way to measure progress
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that "making sure they're in good shape" is a tough job, but equally important. I agree with you.
<Ahmuck_> i'd recommend breaking edubuntu into three systems.  the pure ubuntu-ltsp edu support apps
<Ahmuck_> the instructor interaction apps
<Ahmuck_> and the pure end user apps
<LaserJock> right
<Ahmuck_> and creating three different teams
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> not sure about that one
<LaserJock> we don't even have 1 team yet :-)
<Ahmuck_> or i don't think your going to get a handle on it, because you can't handle everything in the pot
<Ahmuck_> i'd even say a forth, ie, marketing/testing/recrutiment team
<highvoltage> Ahmuck_: take it from LaserJock and I, just starting up teams doesn't solve any problems
<Ahmuck_> an edu app team would look only at the edu apps on a ubuntu system and look at how well they run, how well they are adopted, etc.
<Ahmuck_> i've started 4 in the last year.  it's not easy but it provides a better way to break out the work
<highvoltage> I have an idea. we should just start a solve-all-our-problems team and then all our problems will be solved. how neat is that?
<LaserJock> lol
<bencrisford1> haha
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: we have enough people here to run some teams
<LaserJock> frankly I don't think we have enough people for even 1 team yet
<LaserJock> based on past experience
<bencrisford1> mark shuttleworth doesnt run ubuntu singehanded :P
<bencrisford1> if we spread out into different teams
<bencrisford1> then we do
<bencrisford1> when ubuntu started there would be dev, art, marketing, docs
<bencrisford1> sabdfl didnt run them all
<bencrisford1> we have enough to start a couple core ones
<bencrisford1> like dev, and packaging ?
<LaserJock> we do?
<bencrisford1> i think so
<Ahmuck_> so, i'll give you an example.  a year ago, i started a regional lug.  i put the posters up in each town, i host the original meetings, etc.  today we have two strong local community lugs, and another one starting.  lug members are starting to get itchy about getting involved, and i'm able to step away from it more
<Ahmuck_> they are now doing the organizing, the advertising and the instruction
<LaserJock> I haven't had a single contributed package in ages
<bencrisford1> trust me
<bencrisford1> when we start reforming
<bencrisford1> more people will come outta the woodworks
<LaserJock> ok, well, I've been doing Ubuntu/Edubuntu development for almost 4 years
<highvoltage> Ahmuck_: I like your enthusiasm, but I think it will benefit both yourself and edubuntu if you take the time to learn a bit more about ubuntu development processes
<LaserJock> but perhaps we've got enough momentum going
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I would say go for energizing the existing LP teams
<LaserJock> but lets not create any new teams on LP just yet
<Ahmuck_> for example, stgraber could head the ltsp team (me thinks he already does), and nubae sugar (etc.) part of the support app team (core ?), etc.
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> im not sayign make new ones
<LaserJock> we've got something like 13 teams already
<bencrisford1> (apart from marketing :P)
<bencrisford1> 13?!
<bencrisford1> some of them can go IMO
<Ahmuck_> 13, where?
<Ahmuck_> highvoltage: what do you mean?
<bencrisford1> i only found 3 or 4 when i searched
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/?name=edubuntu&searchfor=teamsonly
<bencrisford1> LoCos dont count...  :P
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> I counted 14 non-LoCo teams
<highvoltage> Ahmuck_: in terms of the development processes, etc. do you have at least a vague idea of seeds, top-level meta-packages, packaging itself, etc?
<Ahmuck_> highvoltage: some.  i do my own svn packaging myself for packages that are not getting updated
<LaserJock> look, I'm not trying to squash enthusiasm here. I just want to make sure things succeed and Edubuntu gets back off the ground
<LaserJock> I've tried off-and-on for the last 2 years to get the community re-energized
<LaserJock> just declaring teams and making remix DVD is not going to really turn things around
<LaserJock> we need to help people to really dig in hard-core
<bencrisford1> is the advocacy team responsible for marketing then?
<LaserJock> I think that's what the purpose was
<Ahmuck_> teams might help you focus.  it appears there are to many extraneous teams now, not the right ones?
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I would suggest a fresh start
<bencrisford1> get rid of all the non-LoCos and start again
<bencrisford1> all the teams are disorganised anyways
<LaserJock> well, it's not that simple
<bencrisford1> 2 accepted members, 80 propose members on one team
<LaserJock> let's the the people going first and then we can work out the LP teams
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: that's kind of the plan, but as LaserJock says, not that simple. you also don't want to through away perfectly good work that's already been done
<Ahmuck_> i'm willing to do a wait and see until the big ubuntu hayday is over ... i'm interested in what comes out of it
<LaserJock> the practical matter is that LP teams can't just be taken over
<LaserJock> we require the cooperation of the existing team owner
<LaserJock> several of whom are not around any more
<Ahmuck_> LP == local?
<LaserJock> Launchpad == LP
<Ahmuck_> so if the existing team member is not around, ubuntu doesn't have a way to recoop the team?
<Ahmuck_> and it just sits?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we can probably convince Launchpad admins that we should take it over
<highvoltage> LP admins could delete them if need be, but it's a process
<LaserJock> but I don't think we can make a good case if we have no people to replace it
<LaserJock> i.e. "we don't have any people but please delete other people's team anyway"
<LaserJock> whereas, "our team is expanding and we need the namespace" is much better
<bencrisfo> this is bencrisford on ipod
<bencrisfo> can only type slow so ill just listen in
<Ahmuck_> school is out, but sys admins have to work through the summer.  i know teachers and admin personally, so i'm going to get an idea what's being used over the next month.  our local school district has an admin that comes in 10 hours a week.  don't know if that's helpful info or not.
<LaserJock> I think it would be useful to look at what it is that users really want/need
<LaserJock> sort of generalized
<Ahmuck_> LaserJock: u r still the lead for edubuntu?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> good question
<bencrisfo> :p
<LaserJock> in any practical sense I'd say no
<Ahmuck_> does edubuntu have leadership?
<LaserJock> I'd prefer perhaps Leader emeritus
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> in any practical sense, no
<bencrisfo> lol
<LaserJock> we had an Edubuntu Council
<LaserJock> but 3 out of 5 members I believe are gone
<Ahmuck_> can a project have direction without active leadership?
<bencrisfo> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I think that's kinda where we're at right now
<LaserJock> we're all just kinda hanging out figuring out how to move forward
<LaserJock> I think an important part of that would be to reform the Edubuntu Council
<bencrisfo> i agree
<bencrisfo> i need sleep
<Ahmuck_> nn
<Ahmuck_> i'm out for a while
<bencrisfo> ill talk tommorrow, noght
<Ahmuck_> here, but afk
<Ahmuck_> is there a document that shows the core apps or the edu app structure of edubuntu?  ie a structure tree?
<Ahmuck_> i'd like to see one.
<Ahmuck_> er, i'd like to view it
<LaserJock> there's not really much of a tree
<LaserJock> I guess there is a little bit now with the ubuntu-edu-* metapackages
<LaserJock> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10 at least lists them pretty much
<LaserJock> as far as the edu apps
<LaserJock> the seeds have the structure, but it's not easily viewable
<Ahmuck_> i'm going to create one for myself to get an overview of what's available.  i'll make notes and if it doesn't work or it's clunky, i'll kick those out as i go.  at least somebody will have an idea of what somebody else might be looking for and it'll give a starting structure and breakdown into catagories.  don't expect it for 14 days, as it'll take that time inbetwen what i'm doing now to complete
<LaserJock> sure, thanks
#edubuntu 2009-05-21
<Ahmuck_> nubae: sugar labs == sugar ?
<Ahmuck_> highvoltage: upstream issues solved via ltsp - sound, etc.  i need to work through ltsp?  on 8.10 it worked on 9.04 i lost it
<Ahmuck_> nubae: is there a sugar package available for ubuntu?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: yes, they're in Ubuntu
<Ahmuck_> i'd suggest picking a new name for sabayon if possible.  it's confusing with the linux distro
<LaserJock> it's not ours to rename
<LaserJock> it's a Gnome project
<LaserJock> and existed before the linux distro even :-)
<Ahmuck_> ah
<Ahmuck_> i'm surprised they haven't laid claim to the name via trademark and forced saybayon Linux to change their name
<LaserJock> well, there isn't much of a project left
<LaserJock> so it'd be a bit weird
<Ahmuck_> is stgraber the only one working on it?
<LaserJock> on what?
<Ahmuck_> saybayon
<Ahmuck_> er, maybe not him
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I'm working on it
<sbalneav> I'm looking at their latest release now.
<sbalneav> which they released, broken
<sbalneav> They made a release that they freely admit doesn't work out of the box
<sbalneav> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/sabayon-list/2009-March/msg00000.html
<sbalneav> Please note that this release is KNOWN TO BE BROKEN.  At some point
<sbalneav> Sabayon stopped detecting all the changes you do to files while editing
<sbalneav> a user profile.  The result is that sabayon-2.25.0 saves mostly empty
<sbalneav> user profiles.  Help in debugging this is much appreciated.
<sbalneav> Sigh
<Ahmuck_> i'd help debug it ... i need about a month to get things running here
<Ahmuck_> actually let me re-phrase that
<sbalneav> Well, I'm going to try creating an updated package for it, then figure out why it doesn't work
<Ahmuck_> i'm going to drop back to a stable release of ltsp
<Ahmuck_> then use virtual box to debug stuff in
<sbalneav> Which are you running?
<Ahmuck_> specifically i'm going to create a vm environment and then add packages and debug the packages as i go and create user docs
<Ahmuck_> which means i'm in for the long haul
<sbalneav> I guess my question is, what's NOT stable about LTSP for you?
<Ahmuck_> currently i'm using freemind to organize my thoughts, but may find a wiki and host it and lay it out from there
<Ahmuck_> volume control
<Ahmuck_> user shuts off volume, it shuts down volume for me
<Ahmuck_> web based flash apps
<Ahmuck_> things like pbskids.org, etc
<Ahmuck_> thankfully hplip was fixed in 9.04
<Ahmuck_> system wide messages, yes, someone's pointed this out to me that i could fix something and i suppose all the typing i'm doing on irc could be devoted to getting it fixed, but by defualt, system wide messages shouldn't be showing up on every thin client.  what's printed, etc.
<sbalneav> So one user changes their volume settings, and it affects everyone?
<Ahmuck_> if need be, i can join ltsp channel and state the same
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: yep
<Ahmuck_> though i've not tested it completely.  i'm really strapped for time right now
<sbalneav> So am I.  You want help on or not?
<sbalneav> \I'm here now, and willing to help
<Ahmuck_> well, yes i need help, but i've got things i have to do right now :(
<sbalneav> As for system wide messages, do you mean the notifier app?
<Ahmuck_> hrm, i've not looked at it yet.  could be.  ie, HPLIP Device Status, ... printing (doc name).
<Ahmuck_> i've not looked back, but someone mentioned a 400 page doc on ltsp/edubuntu ?
<Ahmuck_> just looked at moodle.  it's interesting
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: volume slider bar does not work at all ... at the server ... i need to do more testing
<nubae> Ahmuck though there is a package for sugar in Ubuntu, its older than molasses ;-)
<Ahmuck_> is there a way to build from source?
 * Ahmuck_ nudges nubae
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford1> Hey everyone :)
 * bencrisford2 gonna get fixing edubuntu bugs!
<Svenstaro> good luck brave one
<bencrisford1> :P
 * bencrisford1 gives up
<bencrisford1> :(
<nubae> sigh....
<Ahmuck_> i forget, whose working on sayabon?
<nubae> that would be sbalneav
<nubae> Ahmuck_ so u are interested in Sugar eh? Can I introduce you to the sugar team? join #sugar
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: i'm interested in knowing if sayabon is worth saving and why it's worth saving.  i've heard it's overly complex and perhaps should be scraped in favor for something else
<Ahmuck_> meeting today?
<nubae> tomorrow I believe
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: Sabayon's definitely worth saving
<sbalneav> It's not overly complex
<sbalneav> and there *is* nothing else.
<sbalneav> Sabayon simply pops up a "desktop in a window" and lets you customize it.
<sbalneav> You can save that "desktop" as a profile that you can apply to users.
<Ahmuck_> i've heard horror stories about the complexity of the code.  i wondered if it would be easier to write a basic module from srcatch, say python and gtk or qt and then allow managment plugin/addons similar to firefox
<sbalneav> That's *exactly* what sabayon is.
<sbalneav> It's written in python
<sbalneav> has a plugin architechture
<Ahmuck_> ah
<Ahmuck_> see, i know nothing
 * Ahmuck_ finds a something to crawl under
<sbalneav> http://projects.gnome.org/sabayon/
<sbalneav> We've got a broken wheel.
<sbalneav> We just need to FIX the wheel we've got, not re-invent it. :)
<sbalneav> IMHO anyway
<sbalneav> I'm working on updating the package now to the 2.25 release of sabayon.
<sbalneav> I
<sbalneav> I'm going to try to figure out my notes, see if I can get it up to my ppa
<sbalneav> There's also this spec:
<sbalneav> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuUserManagement
<sbalneav> Getting system-tools-backend "ldapified" is somewhat non-trivial
<sbalneav> Here's the problem when you deal with ANYTHING ldap related
<sbalneav> there's about 6.723749837x10^654 different ways to lay out your ldap directory
<sbalneav> You can do a flat, "old style" method: i.e. cn=John Smith,o=Some Organization,c=ca
<sbalneav> You can do the newer "dc" method: i.e. cn=John Smith,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
<nubae> yeah, opensuse uses pre-set policies
<sbalneav> You can also used the "somewhat" standard ou (organizational units) to group your entities, i.e. uid=sbalneav,ou=users,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
<nubae> standards for samba I believe
<nubae> right
<sbalneav> riiiiiiiiiight
<sbalneav> Key here is "pre-set policies"
<sbalneav> How skolelinux did(does) it, is they have two installation modes
<sbalneav> "desktop" and "directory server"
<sbalneav> In directory server mode, they set you up an ldap server
<sbalneav> they don't provide AD integration
<sbalneav> they don't let you pick your own schema
<sbalneav> they don't give you ANY option
<sbalneav> They GIVE you a layout, and you plug your users into it.
<sbalneav> and it works, because they have a KNOWN entity to work against.
<nubae> yep
<nubae> thats what opensuse does too, they pick your schema for you
<nubae> well u are given some options
<nubae> like use samba, use ldap with postfix, etc
<nubae> but very few options
<sbalneav> The problem I (and others) have always had with trying to get ldap into edubuntu is that the server guys always want to support everything
<nubae> which is just fine
<nubae> yeah well
<sbalneav> I think if we WANT to implement SOMETHING, we need to
<nubae> do the concerns of users or ubuntu server come first?
<nubae> well, every major distro has a half decent user management system
<nubae> opensuse and fedora both have very nice and working user managment systems
<nubae> ours just sucks
<sbalneav> 1) pick a use case (edubuntu servers authenticating against an ldap schema, no ad, no samba, nice and simple)
<nubae> plain and simple
<sbalneav> well, yeah
<sbalneav> because THEY have picked a schema, and stuck with it
<nubae> but.... both fedora and opensuse use their own tools
<nubae> nothing standard
<nubae> yep
<nubae> but thats better than doing nothing
<sbalneav> that's what we need to do.
<sbalneav> the gnome user tools wouldn't be bad, if they did ldap
<sbalneav> but they CAN'T do ldap until we pick a schema style we're going to code against
<nubae> or a set of them
<sbalneav> Well sure
<nubae> ie... we look at the possibilities
<nubae> there is plain ldap for authentication
<nubae> ldap +samba for authentication and windows support
<nubae> ldap+samba+postfix for authentication, file management, and mail
<nubae> and then even things like ldap+samba+postfix+moodle
<nubae> we have to choose where to limit ourselves
<nubae> of course these schemas ARE standaradised
<nubae> so it should be a matter of just picking them
<sbalneav> And I'd say, for a start, we pick JUST plain ldap authentication, get it implemented and working, then we can branch out from there.
<sbalneav> Go with the uid=blah,ou=users,dc=... for users
<sbalneav> and gid=blah,ou=groups,dc= blah for groups
<nubae> maybe ldap+samba would make more sense
<nubae> so that u kill 2 birds with 1 stone
<nubae> after all its likely there will be windows and osx clients in the schools too
<sbalneav> I'm not familiar with the samba side of ldap, since I don't support any windows.
<nubae> sbalneav: have u ever looked at sugar?
<nubae> the window manager?
<sbalneav> No
<nubae> might I suggest u do so... its an amazing project... absolutely incredible in what it can do and what its intentions are
<sbalneav> I know it's used by OLPC, and I've seen it once or twice, but I've never tried it personally.
<nubae> the community is incredible, and you'll find some of the best coders on the planet working on it... its similar in that way to ltsp
<sbalneav> You're talking to a guy who thinks the pinnacle of desktop environments was reached with twm, and it's been downhill ever since :)
<sbalneav> I can have a look
<nubae> well then u'll love sugar
<sbalneav> jaunty packages?
<nubae> its based on matchbox
<nubae> well thats the thing
<nubae> we're desperately looking for sugar packagers
<nubae> I package it for opensuse
<nubae> so I dont do it for ubuntu
<nubae> but... u can download images and run in a vm for Fedora, Mandriva or openSUSE
<nubae> I suggest the Sugar on a stick
<Svenstaro> Packaging is kinda easy, though, do you only need packagers?
<nubae> its the best implementation outside of Sugar right now
<nubae> no, we need all kinds of people Svenstaro
<nubae> please join #sugar if you are interested
<nubae> I dont want to canabolise edubuntu, the 2 projects can coexist... though sugar is more upstream and has a more stable working community :-)
<nubae> grin
<nubae> some of the things sugar does is it makes collaboration (like what abiword or google docs does) work with every application
<nubae> so kids can collaboratively learn, and the idea of files has been replaced by something called a journal
<nubae> which contains an entry for everything the student/teacher does in the environment
<Ahmuck_> why support everything.  this goes back to what i was saying before.  pick the battles, and win those.  let the bystanders figure out their own mess
<nubae> we are currently incorporating the idea of achievements/medals for activities... so for example, if u collaborated with 5 people on something u'd get the collaboration award
<Ahmuck_> i think i would adpt ldap+samba etc.
<Ahmuck_> i think you need windows support
<nubae> anyway..... its all very exciting
<Ahmuck_> nubae: is there support for getting the bugs worked out on ubuntu 9.04 ?
<nubae> for sugar u mean?
<nubae> they are pretty much waiting for debian policy
<nubae> so no
<nubae> it was either fork from debian or wait on them, and unfortunately, the debian maintainer is not the easiest person in the world to talk to
<nubae> alkisg: aren't u up for helping in sugarlabs?
<alkisg> nubae: sorry, I've never used it
<nubae> then please do so! :-) you'll be pleasantly surprised
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: see, I'd go the opposite way.  I personally don't want windows support, because if we try to "sort of support" windows, we need proper AD integration.
<nubae> I believe its been totally translated to greek
<alkisg> nubae: I'll give it a try in the summer
<nubae> sbalneav: well the thing is, the other distros do samba support :-/
<sbalneav> What, so we have to then?
<nubae> ok, we could use productive people like yourself, and its a truly amazing community
<nubae> afraid so yeah
<nubae> if we dont want to keep loosing people to other distros
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: the problem with not having windows support, is that if your truly want ubuntu-ltsp+edubuntu theme in the classroom, your going to be working with mixed environments
<nubae> its unfortunate there is competition within the distro scene
<Ahmuck_> LDAP + AD gives you the options to migrate entirely at a later date to LDAP only
<nubae> well ldap is AD
<nubae> u mean ldap + samba
<nubae> AD is a type of LDAP
<Ahmuck_> er, yes
<sbalneav> Is that a goal of ours?  Not "losing people to other distros"?
<Ahmuck_> AD is a type, but it's not LDAP
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: not loosing market share to windows should be a goal
<nubae> well, I would want to make our distro as 'good' as possible and that means making damn sure we have just as good and useful features as other distros
<Ahmuck_> anybody not looking at market share regardless if it's a gpl project or proprietary is not doing smart thinking
<nubae> its the reason people used ubuntu up to now... the best LTSP 5.0 impementation
<nubae> but now thats changing, we are losing people
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I realize that.  but, as I keep saying, we don't have enough people to do *everything*.  I've always advocated picking a very simple use case and getting it *right*.  Our problem is we keep widening the scope, getting nothing accomplished, rather than picking one SIMPLE thing, and getting it done.
<nubae> Fedora, Debian and openSUSE all caught up, and they have elements in their distros that make them slightly better than ubuntu right now
<sbalneav> OK, and?
<nubae> we need to catch up to them now
<sbalneav> If they're superior, they win
<sbalneav> no. we. don't.
<nubae> no... we just need to catch up
<nubae> hmmm, well we do if dont want ubuntu to go the way of the dinosaur...
<sbalneav> We need to get something, ANYTHING working.
<nubae> sorry edubuntu
<sbalneav> If we could come out with a simple use case THAT WORKED, i.e. you have "edubuntu+nfs for home dirs+ldap working+user tools working against that+working sabayon" that'd be a huge step forward.
<sbalneav> if we keep widening the scope, we never get anything accomplished, becayse the work then becomes too big for the small number of devs we have.
<sbalneav> imho
<sbalneav> anywho, I'm talking here, and that's not going to get sabayon working.
<sbalneav> afk, trying to get sabayon 2.25 compiled.
<Ahmuck_> sbalneav: do the quick thing then, ur right
<Ahmuck_> see, i believe in the turtle
<Ahmuck_> if it's done right, then waiting a bit is ok
<Ahmuck_> and i believe eating elephants one bite at a time
<sbalneav> Well ok then.
<sbalneav> I know how to handle ldap+simple auth, because I do it around here.
<sbalneav> You want to work on the samba+ad part?
<Ahmuck_> who has the docs?  i'd like to take a look at the work that has been done.  i'm working through a vm and am going to be screenshoting screen by screen and documenting every step
<sbalneav> Desktop docs? Or LTSP docs?
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<sbalneav> That't the LTSP docs at the current moment
<sbalneav> the ltsp docs used to be part of the edubuntu handbook
<sbalneav> nubae split them out, and he and I brought them up to date.
<sbalneav> the idea would be to have them included somehow as a chapter in the edubuntu handbook
<Ahmuck_> edubuntu have it's own docs?
<sbalneav> they, the edubuntu-docs package, I beleiev
<sbalneav> which is the edubuntu-handbook
<sbalneav> A large part of the handbook is ltsp docs
<Ahmuck_> ok. i'm going to work through both then
<Ahmuck_> and see how well i can follow them
<sbalneav> they could be yanked, and links could be provided to them if someone packaged up the ltsp docs
<sbalneav> they could be linked through a yelp link.
<Ahmuck_> anywho, because i'm interested in saybayon, i'm going to let you be.  btw, what r other distros using for user management?
<Lns> If it helps, one other person and I are developing/picking up where ogra's "LTSP Manager" and "Thin-Client-Manager" left off. We're redesigning both tools to be integrated into one, and make them stable, and add lots of functionality.
<Lns> It will be a sort of "LTSP Control Panel" if it all works out the way I want
<Lns> You'll be able to manage the chroot, user sessions, connect via VNC, manage clients (power on/off/scheduled), share screens, lock sessions, and all sorts of other fun stuff
<Lns> a lot of this stuff was already done by Ogra but the projects got orphaned when he moved on..so i'm hoping we'll be able to take that code and make it into something awesome
<sbalneav> Lns: got a bzr tree somewhere?
<Lns> sbalneav: not yet, we're still spec'ing out our goals - but the work we have done so far is here (which is going to be mutated into those tools since we re-discovered them): http://damnation.neg9.org/dripy/projects/lns
<Lns> oops the code isn't there
<Ahmuck_> ogra moved on?
<Lns> I'll find out where it is if you want. Basically that code is sort of what we envisioned as a client/server facility for command & control of clients
<Lns> Ahmuck: to the netbook part of canonical, yeah
<Lns> from edubuntu
<alkisg> Lns: so the goal is to also replace italc?
<Ahmuck_> ogra is conical ?
<Lns> alkisg: not necessarily, no
<Ahmuck_> Lns, does it need a fancy name?
<Lns> iTalc is good but it lacks a lot of ltsp specific functionality i want
<Lns> Ahmuck: huh?
<Ahmuck_> call it gantalope :)
<Lns> a name is just a name..it's what it does that counts ;)
<Ahmuck_> ah, companies have been built on good names though
<Ahmuck_> branding is important
<Lns> well we're likely going to change the name since thinking about working with the other existing projects, so....no issue
<Lns> lol
<Lns> if it's that important
<Lns> what i'm focussed on is getting something real together
<Ahmuck_> eh, i'm just laxing around, brain is in between projects :)
<Lns> sbalneav: mercurial can be used to check out the code apparently - https://damnation.neg9.org/hg/lns
<Lns> it's really still in its infancy though
<Lns> I mean, look at what's already been done by ogra - its a shame nobody had picked up the code since then. This is gold. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<alkisg> Yeah, ogra's done a good job on this (as usual)
<Lns> No big surprises there =)
<Lns> it's up to those who want to make this stuff really work to pick it up.. so I'm willing to do that. That's my #1 complaint - teachers/school techs who have next to 0 knowledge of Linux need something like this to work with it and feel useful..otherwise they just get scared of it and start disliking it
<Lns> They are so used to being the hero with Windows that its a big shock when they can't figure something out...a GUI tool like this will enable them to accomplish a lot.
<alkisg> Yeah. That & simple user management tasks are much needed things
<Lns> alkisg: exactly. I'm aiming to accomplish that (eventually) as well. It all just takes time to map out
<Lns> I spent about an hour last night just sketching windows and options and preferences for what i want...now the dev i'm working with will be able to translate it into actual useful stuff =p
<alkisg> nubae, you need to change your ISP
<alkisg> :P
<Lns> haha
<sbalneav> Hmm, well, created sabayon 2.25 source package.  Now to see if it builds under pbuilder
<sbalneav> then I have to see what I need to do to get it up to my ppd
<sbalneav> ppa
<alkisg> sbalneav: signing + dput
<sbalneav> Yeah, well, I can't remember how to do that part :)
<sbalneav> Anything outside of vi foo.c ; make ; make install tends to confuse me :)
<sbalneav> durned newfangled packaging systems.
 * sbalneav shakes fist
<sbalneav> YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS GET OFF MY LAWN
<alkisg> heh :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/d6c14f81d
<sbalneav> thx, I'll try that when the pbuilder gets done it's thang
<Lns> hahaha
<Lns> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5kFrCINpl8&feature=related
 * Lns can't help but think of this every time someone says to get off their lawn
<nubae> I know
<nubae> cant keep a connection for longer than an hour, but I think its the copper cabling to be honest
<Lns> nubae: you on dialup?
<nubae> no, dsl
<nubae> still copper cabling
<Lns> right
<alkisg> Check the noise on your router's web interface
<nubae> well I know that is the problem, the dsl guy told me when he installed the router
<nubae> but I'm not about to start messing with changing the copper cabling in the entire house
<nubae> I'll just have to move
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> Lns: u ever checked out sugar?
<nubae> I'm trying to get people to help out with that project... its an amazing community and truly amazing software with great ideals and working towards something totally unique
<nubae> sugarlabs.org
<Lns> nubae: not yet, i need to install it on an ubuntu box soon though to check it out and show it to someone
<nubae> its the os that runs on the one laptop per child computers
<Lns> nubae: yeah i know that much :)
<nubae> well, unfortunately the ubuntu packages are really old
<nubae> u'd need a vm of another distro, I think sugar on a stick (fedora based) is the most up to date
<nubae> along with opensuse of course since I maintain that
<nubae> but really, its worth checking out, especially for primary schools
<nubae> works pretty ok with LTSP, but needs a lot of testing in that area, and you could be really helpful there
<nubae> since u have existing deployments
<Lns> can't anyone make a ppa for updated sugar in ubuntu?
<nubae> u would get endless praise if u helped otu
<nubae> out
<nubae> well, they could, but they aren't
<nubae> I've been working on an automated package creation tool along with some others
<nubae> using opensuse's gpled build service
<nubae> that way we get from source to packages in one go, without having to rely on the distros
<Lns> hmm...
<nubae> in most cases they will of course repackage themselves cause of policy and stuff
<nubae> but it pushes them to do so
<Lns> yeah
<nubae> like when we anounced it suddenly the debian maintainer started to work like mad to get the packages out :-)
<nubae> so there should be a buntu version soon
<Lns> well imho a PPA would be a great place to start. it would get the ball rolling, and i use ubuntu at all my sites, so....
<Lns> nubae: how hard would it be to compile latest sugar on ubuntu?
<nubae> right, so we are gonna have the automated packages created in a ppa
<nubae> or an external repo
<nubae> well, that should be quite doable
<nubae> u can run jhbuild (python based) relatively easily
<Lns> does it have a lot of deps i need to worry about?
<nubae> the problems come whith integration of some of the gnome deps like abiword and such
<nubae> but try it out, I know there are devs working from an ubuntu version of jhbuild
<nubae> but thats almost the same are running a vm
<Lns> ..it is?
<nubae> might be quicker to download an iso and launch in kvm or whatever
<nubae> yeah it runs in its own environment
<Lns> is it X based?
<nubae> yep
<nubae> matchbox
<nubae> but we're moving to metacity in next release
<nubae> meaning individual activities will be able to be launched from gnome
<nubae> that will be quite cool
<Lns> oh wow
<nubae> that will mean collaborative activities will be more common place
<Lns> yeah, that would be awesome
<nubae> yeah there is a lot of stuff happening in that project... sky is the limit
<Lns> i doubt any of my sites would want to switch completely to sugar from gnome
<nubae> thats why its so great to work on
<Lns> theyv'e had a hard enough time learning gnome.. ;)
<nubae> its not a complete switch thing for sure
<nubae> but for example, gcompris is making heavy duty progress in integrating completely in the sugar environment
<nubae> childsplay too
<Lns> nubae: in the meantime you think fedora would be the best iso to use?
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> sugersuse iso isnt bad either, but I'm just rebuilding browse at the minute
<nubae> some messy deps there
 * Lns is downloading SoaS iso
<nubae> cool
<nubae> Lns: the really interesting things are the journal, which is a replacement for folders or directories and is used to semi-automatically keep track of your work, and collaboration, where lots of users can use programs at the same time in some collaborative way
<nubae> basically there is no need for nautilus, or dolphin or its equivalents
<nubae> Lns: take a look at this: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Community/Distributions/OpenSUSE
<nubae> bencrisford1: if u are looking for a great project to work on u can look at sugar too
<nubae> sugarlabs.org
 * nubae stops advertising
<bencrisford1> sugar huh?
<bencrisford1> whats that then :P?
<Lns> yeah nubae you have too much sugar in your system ;)
<nubae> its a system like gnome or kde, but more for kids
<nubae> so its an environment that kids learn/understand real quick and it fosters constructionism by collaboration and reviewing activities
<nubae> yeah I'm all sugared up
<bencrisford1> it sounds good
<bencrisford1> i might ask you about it again tommorrow
 * bencrisford1 's a little tired
<bencrisford1> and im a bit busy with my forum right now
<bencrisford1> its a politics forum
<bencrisford1> and in the UK theres alot going on right now
<Ahmuck_> LTSP Manager is exactly the kind of thing were looking for
<Lns> Ahmuck_: good. We're already getting started on merging LTSP Manager and Thin-Client-Manager into one app
<Lns> we're going to clean up code and then start adding features
<Lns> There will be/is a module system too, to add any functionality you want
<Ahmuck_> how does this work with sayabon?
<Ahmuck_> will there be a unified type of app?
<Lns> Right now, I'm not sure. I know sbalneav is working on sabayon to get it stable, but at this point we can't do anything with it. Maybe by the time we start implementing UI customization features it will be stable enough to just call from a menu
<Lns> Otherwise we're going to probably implement more of a pessulus type of interface
<Lns> direct editing of gconf, instead of having an actual session going. but again that's oging to be a ways off. We've got a lot of work to do to even get it running :)
<Lns> Some cool things we'll have is power scheduling features (turn all thin clients in group FOO off at 3:30pm, all clients in group BAR off at 5:00pm, except for on Thursdays, etc etc.. then wake them up via WoL at 7:50am, etc
<Lns> or turning on/off at will
<Lns> i know iTalc already has this..but this is going to be a much lighter app
#edubuntu 2009-05-22
<Ahmuck_> neat.  light and versatile is good
<Lns> that's what we're going for =)
<Lns> nubae: ping?
<Ahmuck_> does edu apps touch optimized ?
<skipjack> Hello
<nubae> hi skipjack
<skipjack> I think I have a Problem ;) my ThinClients starts with an 180 degres rotated X...
<skipjack> knows someone about this?
<nubae> oh nice :-)
<skipjack> hehe ;) nice but not usable ;)
<nubae> well sounds like xorg.conf has that set with xrandr... first try reconfiguring your thin clients
<skipjack> hehe anyone an idea?
<skipjack> okay,
<nubae> so dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<skipjack> you mean xorg for the thinclient or is that xorg of my server?
<nubae> thin client
<nubae> but maybe first, lets try debugging from the beginning
<nubae> pastebin your lts.conf for me and also output of lspci
<nubae> and your dmesg and xorg.conf (from thin client, not server)
<skipjack> hehe okay,
<skipjack> the things from the thin client, should be a Problem. because I can't login in console
<skipjack> and with 180 degree x, it's verry hard
<alkisg> Â¡ÉÊÊ
<skipjack> hehe that's not fair..
<skipjack> the file: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf is empty?
<skipjack> or where is it located?
<alkisg> By default, yes
<skipjack> oh okay, but not empty / not created is better discriped
<nubae> ok... well start by creating it
<nubae> and set X_CONFIGURE=True and XSERVER=auto
<nubae> or was it X_SERVER?
<nubae> anyway.... the file must contain the first line saying [default] and then underneath the things I just mentione
<skipjack> xorg
<alkisg> skipjack: version?
<nubae> no, we're gonna try skipping some steps and move straight to configuring your xserver
<nubae> so just try XSERVER=auto, xorg should normally configure itself
<skipjack> 1.6.0
<skipjack> xorg-server 2:1.6.0-0ubuntu14 (buildd@rothera.buildd)
<nubae> unlesss alkisg prefers to lead u through the whole debugging process ;p
<skipjack> hehe;) nice
<alkisg> nubae: nah... just asking for (ed)ubuntu version to see if configure_x is needed. Don't worry, I'm into cooperated troubleshooting, not like some others... :P :D
<nubae> so whats ure ed/ubuntu version skipjack?
<skipjack> lts.conf :  http://nopaste.info/ea0afdca57.html
<skipjack> lspci (Server): http://nopaste.info/c2592ab9d5.html
<skipjack> ubuntu 9.04
<skipjack> I have now started an X Session ( ThinClient) with XTerminal ( Rescure Solution )... and here is the whole session only an opend xterm, but here are the thinks not rotated
<skipjack> who can I now get the dmesg and xorg config of the thin client ?
<nubae> do what I said above
<skipjack> I think config is under /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ ?
<nubae> create lts.conf with [default] and both options
<skipjack> yes
<skipjack> created
<nubae> u did that already?
<skipjack> yes
<skipjack> I did it
<nubae> under /var/lib/tftpboot?
<skipjack> hehe I should write back when I have finish an ToDo-Step which you sayed me
<skipjack> yes
<nubae> ok, and the screen still comes out sideways?
<skipjack> I have created and copyed then to the aboved no-paste pages
<nubae> ok so its nvidia, set XSERVER=nvidia and try again
<skipjack> I must restart the thinclient after editing lts.conf?
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> oh okay wait, it's nvidia on the server
<nubae> oh, I need lspci from the thin client
<skipjack> but in the thinclient here is an ati card
<nubae> ok, so try XSERVER=ati
<skipjack> okay, that's my problem. I don't know how?
<nubae> but I need to know which make exacly as it could be radeon or even radeonhd
<skipjack> can I get this from thinclient
<nubae> well, first thing is to give root a pass on the  thin client chroot
<nubae> thats done by doing sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<nubae> and then passwd (mypassword)
<nubae> no brackets
<nubae> then u can hit fkey +ctrl+alt and get a screen to login to the thin client directly, where u can lspci for the vga card
<skipjack> thin-Client lspci : http://nopaste.info/9793547ecd.html
<skipjack> :fuck
<skipjack> sorry, was also not the right
<alkisg> skipjack: let me get this straight:
<alkisg> In ldm (the login screen) you see things right,
<skipjack> yes
<alkisg> but when you login they're upside down?
<skipjack> hmm I have chrooted, and passwd. But I can't login at the default Console . ( STRG + ALT + F1 .. )
<alkisg> skipjack: if so, it's not a thin client thing
<skipjack> alkisg: yes
<skipjack> okay
<alkisg> skipjack: create a new user and try with him
<skipjack> hmm okay,
<nubae> I think root is immutable isn't?
<alkisg> Don't log into the server with that user - try directly into the client
<skipjack> okay
<nubae> u have to mode -i I believe
<nubae> or whatever the command is again, alkisg?
<alkisg> passwd -u
<alkisg> Or SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm
<nubae> I never was able to get 2 screens goigng at the same time
<nubae> alkisg: u were?
<skipjack> okay, user: thin2 created, and I logged in at thinclient
<alkisg> Yeah, with both of the SCREENS defined
<alkisg> skipjack: and you got the same problem?
<skipjack> yes
<alkisg> Did you install the nvidia driver at the server?
<skipjack> yes
<alkisg> I think it messes with some libraries... :(
<nubae> wiat though, we need him to tell us the card on the client
<alkisg> nubae: it works fine up until ldm
<alkisg> So I don't think it's an X problem in the thin client...
<nubae> hmmm
<skipjack> hmm the laptop/thinclient card is an ati radeon X1600
<skipjack> useally driver: fglrx
<nubae> well thats easily enough testable, try defining a static xorg.conf
<nubae> and see what happens
<alkisg> or with XDRIVER=vesa
<nubae> vesa sometimes doesnt work for ati cards
<alkisg> ok
<nubae> they are a pain in the ass (modern atis)
<nubae> always the same story, they are never caught up
<skipjack> I should edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf ( on the server ) and change the driver to vesa oder svga?
<alkisg> No no don't change that
<alkisg> Either XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf (but it may not work with ati as nubae says), or what nubae said.
<skipjack> okay: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf changed
<skipjack> I should restart the thin client?
<alkisg> yeah
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> okay, thin client is back
<skipjack> should I login?
<alkisg> Yes
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> okay looks better ;)
<alkisg> That's because the vesa driver doesn't support rotation? :)
<skipjack> lol ;)
<skipjack> hehe okay. But I think it's important that I get flgrx/ati driver running under thinclients
<skipjack> is that possible?
<alkisg> What does it use if you don't define anything in lts.conf?
<skipjack> hehe good queston ;) wee will see ;)
<alkisg> Try with:
<alkisg> [Default]
<alkisg> SCREEN_02=shell
<alkisg> SCREEN_07=ldm
<alkisg> as the contents of lts.conf
<skipjack> hehe no it's okay, i'm only an novice at ltsp / thinclient
<alkisg> So that you can debug it from the shell
<skipjack> okay Parameters are add
<skipjack> restart thin client?
<alkisg> skipjack: yes, but put *only* those parameters
<alkisg> Nothing else...
<skipjack> oh okay
<alkisg> With Alt+Ctrl+F2 you'll get to a local shell prompt as root
<skipjack> okay
<alkisg> So you'll be able to see /var/log/Xorg.0.log etc
<Ahmuck_> good morning
<alkisg> Hi Ahmuck_
<skipjack> ah okay ;)
<skipjack> great
<skipjack> okay should I paste Xorg.7.log ( .0.log does not exist,.. )
<alkisg> Yeah, sure, upload it to pastebin
<Ahmuck_> pastebin.be
<alkisg> And also the output of `lspci | grep VGA` for nubae to see the exact card model (I've absolutely no clue about ATI's)
<alkisg> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
<Ahmuck_> i picked up 5 pc with 1.2Ghz procs and 512mb ram ... however they appear to have some type of novell boot rather than pxe boot
<alkisg> Hmmm?
<nubae> there is no such thing :-)
<nubae> its probably novell pxe boot
<nubae> although didnt novell have their networking system... but that was like 20 years ago
<alkisg> Yeah, that was my first lab... 386 sx with 2 mb ram, no hd :)
<skipjack> okay, 1sorry wait a moment, I must take a call
<alkisg> Booting from a novell 486 server
<skipjack> Xorg.7.log ( ThinClient): http://nopaste.info/b76758618d.html
<skipjack> lspci ( thinclient) : http://nopaste.info/3b41f3cdd8.html
<skipjack> alkisg: nubae
 * alkisg doesn't have a clue about ati cards/drivers
<nubae> sec
<Ahmuck_> RPL ROM ?
<nubae> ok, u need the fglrx driver
<nubae> its properietary so u may need to install it in the chroot
<nubae> I wrote this down once, long ago, requires u to get the xserver-ati, and couple of the things... let me recheck
<nubae> u need xorg-driver-fglrx in the chroot
<Ahmuck_> novell netware firmware ready, RPL ROM, and then crashes
<nubae> sounds like a busted pxe
<nubae> can u switch the cards?
<nubae> thats definitely gonna be the cheapest solution
<Ahmuck_> looks like your system isn't locating the boot sector on the hard drive and is then looking for an RPL server from which to perform a remote boot
<nubae> skipjack: and u need linux-restricted-modules
<Ahmuck_> http://www.cybertechhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17190
<skipjack> nubae:  okay, but on the thinclient I need this packages?
<nubae> skipjack: follow teh ati part of this tutorial
<nubae> http://www.waterlovinghead.com/LinuxLTSP
<skipjack> my server has this packages installed, and I have here running nvidia driver. also my own compiled kernel
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> thanks
<nubae> of course exchanging the fglrx versions for the latest
<nubae> which u can download from the net some place
<nubae> but basically that should help, u obviously dont need the cinerama part unless u have 2 monitors u want to use
<nubae> on the thin client
<skipjack> hehe ;)
<skipjack> that's the next step
<skipjack> I hope 100mbit is enought for Xorg and working
<nubae> sure, but dont expect 3d and flash working well
<skipjack> okay, so I should upgrade to 1000mbit Network?
<skipjack> is there an page about calculation such things?
<skipjack> so that I can do some Math about calculation the traffic..
<Ahmuck_> ok, it's Novell RPL RPM (boot) for the nic, and here is no way to change it to pxe.  does ltsp have support for novell rpl boot rom ?
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: are you sure it doesn't have pxe support from the bios? I.e. an option for rpl/pxe?
<alkisg> skipjack: e.g. for xv video, the formula is: width*height*frames per second*12 bits color depth
<nubae> Ahmuck_: change the card
<nubae> is it really worh
<nubae> all this trouble
<nubae> I mean... surely your time is worth about 50$ minimum per hour, and u've already spent that on this
<alkisg> rpl booting: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/RPL
<nubae> u could have bought 5 pxe booting cards with that money ;-)
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: i'm sure.  IBM RPL-ROM does, Novell doesn't from what i gather on the inet
<Ahmuck_> i'll check again
<Ahmuck_> card is onboard
<Ahmuck_> sis chipset
<Ahmuck_> i'm going to use gplx instead
<Ahmuck_> though it's been mentioned to try bootp
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: http://www.huweb.hu/maques/rpl.htm
<alkisg> But seriously, use newer cards :)
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: ah, and here is the disconnect.  teachers are buying their own supplies with their own money to fund their classroom activities
<alkisg> OK, they can give 10$ less in hw and 100$ more in support if they want :)
<Ahmuck_> actually, it's a good thing to know
<Ahmuck_> the supports already paid for
<Ahmuck_> the card's aren't
<Ahmuck_> using old pc's as they are and with someone on staff that has the time is the idea solution.  the other solution is to get everything new, given to you, which is what the state and ms is doing in our area, except it's all microsoft :)
<nubae> I'm gonna start calling edubuntu a legacy os :p
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: well if they have a floppy/cd/hd you may probably use gpxe
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: actually, it appears i can flash the boot PROM with gpxe
<Ahmuck_> and it'll do away with the RPL-ROM
<alkisg> Maybe you want to try it first with a floppy to see if it actually works
<Ahmuck_> actually, i thought i'd create a cdrom
<Ahmuck_LTSP> Internal GStreamer error: state change failed.  Please file a bug at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=GStreamer.
<Ahmuck_LTSP> listening to a stream from di.fm, solo piano
<Ahmuck_LTSP> using media player
<Ahmuck_LTSP> Inserting a CD on server causes notices to come up on every machine.  Ubuntu Alternate CD triggers "upgrade" option as it should but sends notices to every client
<skipjack> hmm is it possible to change the Video Driver / create/recompile an new fglrx(Ati) driver for LTSP 4.2 ?
<Ahmuck_> hi pleia2
<pleia2> hello Ahmuck_
<Ahmuck_> how's ledgersmb ?
<pleia2> chugging along, no major developments
<pleia2> unfortunately I need to pull back in development some, I simply don't have the time
<nubae> skipjack: wait... u are using 4.2?
<skipjack> nubae:  nope ;) I have thinked
<skipjack> I have checked that I useing 5.1 ..
<nubae> ok, 4.2 is no longer supported
<nubae> at all
<Ahmuck_> pleia2: isn't that always the case :)
<Ahmuck_> i'm hiring somebody on monday to take up my overwork so i can do more on the oss side
<skipjack> yes ;) have seen, then checked
<pleia2> Ahmuck_: nice :) ledgersmb was a work thing but we've moved on and I stayed on the team, but now I don't have work time to devote to it
<pleia2> and I tend to like doing more community-ish things in my free time
<nubae> pleia2: have u heard about sugar?
<nubae> its a new window manager/learning environment for kids between 3-14
<nubae> its very special and an amazing community
<nubae> we are looking for more volunteers that could help us...
<nubae> the project is all about learning to learning and we have some amazing innovations like truly collaborative apps that allow many kids to work in groups, as well as a jorunaling system that replaces file keeping completely
<nubae> that way u know what u did, when u did it, and what it was all about...
<nubae> sugarlabs.org
<Ahmuck_> does ubuntu ltsp use tftp, http, or ftp for it's boot method ?
<pleia2> nubae: I have, but I've more been diving into moodle of late for educational tools
<pleia2> (have heard of it, that is)
<nubae> yeah Moodle is great
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: tftp, usually.
<nubae> at openSUSE we are migrating everything to that
<nubae> openSUSE-edu that is
<alkisg> And that would be PXE, not specifically ltsp
<Ahmuck_> alrighty
<Ahmuck_> got it.  download rom to cdrom and create and iso via "rom-o-matic" at http://rom-o-matic.net/.  boot order as cd-rom, network, none
<Ahmuck_> now booting gpxe and getting clients
 * Ahmuck_ dances a jig
<Ahmuck_> and i still have my 50.00 :)
<nubae> how do u calculate that? how much time have u spent on getting the cards to work? 4 hours?
<nubae> that would mean u are 150 in the red :p
<Ahmuck_> nubae: 0
<Ahmuck_> if it don't work i don't mess with it
<Ahmuck_> in fact, from a educational stand point, or from a onsite tech standpoint i think your going to find this true.  10 min, don't work, move on
<Ahmuck_> seriously, opposing individuals who are making an effort to stay with edubuntu reguardless how they choose to do it is counterproductive
<Ahmuck_> anywho, i'll look at the docs and see if RPL-ROM is covered.  if not i'll add it
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<Ahmuck_> gooooood morning LaserJock
<Ahmuck_> don't forget your disertation !
<Ahmuck_> i've been thinking about edubuntu.  if edubuntu wants to focus on edu apps then a ubuntu-ltsp group needs to be formed to deal with specific ubuntu-ltsp issues
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: I think stgraber would appreciate help
<Ahmuck_> and now for question.  setting the default size for login screen, 1024x800 and session, and dpi for fonts.  something i need to do universally
<stgraber> Ahmuck_: +1
<stgraber> actually at next UDS, LTSP will be part of Ubuntu Server, not education
<Ahmuck_> stgraber: +1 (?)
<Ahmuck_> stgraber: so, then all ltsp questions would be answered in ubuntu-server not in edubuntu ?
<stgraber> well, I'll still be in that chan ;) but yes, that's the idea
<stgraber> that also means joining the ubuntu server community which is quite active and getting things like some room at UDS for discussion
<Ahmuck_> so then any edubuntu-ltsp question should be deffered to ubuntu-server
<Ahmuck_> stgraber: u mean me ?
<Ahmuck_> rather than #ltsp
<Ahmuck_> sometimes i get the response from edubuntu - that is a ltsp question, and from #ltsp - that is a ubuntu question, and from ubuntu - that is a edubuntu question, and so on.  stuck in an infintate loop
<Ahmuck_> how does ubuntu server differ from ubuntu-ltsp ?
<Ahmuck_> i can actually do a standalone ubuntu client if ubuntu server would do things like central user managment, desktop configurations, lockdown, etc.
<Ahmuck_> which appears to be stronger in ltsp whereas server is just serving apps, webserving, etc.  i might be mis-understanding the two roles
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: I think the point would be that the Server Team is much more familiar with the server aspects of LTSP
<stgraber> Ahmuck_: LTSP needs to be part of an official team so that we can be part of the whole speccing/UDS/... process
<Ahmuck_> in reguards to edubuntu apps, part of our problem is teachers already have their favourites.  this means the app has to be extra spectacular, with teacher management capabilities.  extra spectacular includes lesson play, graphics, progress measuring, etc.  there are plenty of salesmen triping over the threshold trying to get apps in at the state level.  at the local level is where you would...
<Ahmuck_> ...make a dent.
<stgraber> currently LTSP was a bit of education, desktop and server but not fully part of any of these
<Ahmuck_> i would agre, ltsp needs it's own team
<Ahmuck_> and edubuntu would deal only with the edu apps portion of ltsp, such as SDL sound, etc.
<Ahmuck_> by doing so you have people specialized in those areas rather than trying to do it all in one basket so to speak
<Ahmuck_> and/or needs to be a sub-team of ubuntu-server
<Ahmuck_> bbl, afk
<bencrisford1> Hi LaserJock
<bencrisford1> anything new with the 'edubuntu revolution'?
<LaserJock> in 1.5 hrs we'll find out
<bencrisford1> oh yeah, the meeting
<bencrisford1> what time is that btw?
<bencrisford1> i have a spux developer meeting at 19:00 UTC, but I guess I attend both, shouldnt be too busy
<LaserJock> 18:00UTC
 * bencrisford1 has back to back meetings :P
<bencrisford1> is there an agenda page we can edit LaserJock?
<LaserJock> let's see
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: go for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
<bencrisford1> ok thanks :)
<bencrisford1> added some ideas LaserJock
<LaserJock> I see that
<bencrisford1> aaggh scary, i created edit conflicts...
<bencrisford1> how did i manage that?
<bencrisford1> and what are they :P?
<pleia2> looks like you saved after I did
<bencrisford1> oh
<bencrisford1> how do we fix it?
<pleia2> I can fix it
<pleia2> (it didn't give me a warning while editing though, odd)
<pleia2> anyway, all fixed :)
<LaserJock> hi pleia2!
<pleia2> hey LaserJock!
<LaserJock> I think we're going to have to run a fairly tight meeting or it's going to take forever
<davidgroos> Hi All
<davidgroos> Meeting in a couple hours yes?
<davidgroos> Where?
<LaserJock> in 1hr here
<davidgroos> OH!
<davidgroos> Thanks, I'll be there
<davidgroos> here
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: if its here, want me to edit the agenda page
<bencrisford1> it says its in ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> sure
 * Lns waves
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I put it at the top of the agenda instea
<bencrisford1> instead(
<bencrisford1> instead*
<Ahmuck_> LaserJock: tight meeting?
<LaserJock> not a lot of wandering around
<Ahmuck_> is the agenda set ?
<Ahmuck_> not a lot of wandering around as in no room for ideas?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I mean we can't spend 1 hr on a single topic
<sbalneav> Hello!
<sbalneav> Sorry, I'm out of town today, and taking care of a problem.
<sbalneav> So I'm not going to be able to show, but...
<sbalneav> I did get Sabayon 2.25 to compile cleanly.
<sbalneav> For ther record, here's what I'll commit to.
<sbalneav> 1) Learning packaging to help with bug fixing
<sbalneav> 2) fixig sabayon
<sbalneav> 3) Helping to bring the LTSP and Edubuntu Handbook documents up-to-date
<sbalneav> 4) (if time permits) coming up with a preliminary LDAP implementation, with a patch for systems-tools-backends to allow user-and-group tools to use ldap
<sbalneav> Someone post the results of the meeting to the mailing list.
<sbalneav> Cheers
<LaserJock> sbalneav: thanks
<asanchez> Hi everybody from Spain
<LaserJock> hello
<Ahmuck_> i'm willing to run multiple test installations and do real time testing with feedback.  i don't know the proper tools in ubuntu and if their too clunky (dig through multiple links, multiple registration) i'll think about it
<asanchez> Hello LaserJock, im a member of GuadalinexEdu development team, we are highly interested in collaboration
<LaserJock> great
<asanchez> The main difference between GuadalinexEdu and Edubuntu is the structure of "Education" menu
<LaserJock> oh really?
<LaserJock> do you have a screenshot of it?
<asanchez> we organize applications by subjects
<asanchez> Im going to upload it now
<pygi> highvoltage: when is the meeting exactly?
<Ahmuck_> 4 min ?
<LaserJock> 34 min
<asanchez> LaserJock, http://www.guadalinexedu.org/guadalinexedu_science_menu.png
<LaserJock> asanchez: very nice
<LaserJock> asanchez: we've worked on some similar idea
<LaserJock> asanchez: how are you changing the menu?
<asanchez> now we are doing nasty things
<asanchez> we overwrite .desktops using dpkg-divert
<nubae> meeting already started?
 * nubae scrolls uo
<nubae> up even
<asanchez> we use one package for each ubuntu original package in order to modify menu entry
<LaserJock> asanchez: hmm, that is kinda nasty
<asanchez> yes, we know
<LaserJock> asanchez: I think you could use a package based on edubuntu-menus to fix that
<asanchez> but we have only 3 months to package all the applications and we dont have the known-how
<LaserJock> asanchez: better menus is definitely something Edubuntu is interested in
<LaserJock> asanchez: yeah, using XDG you don't have to mess with the .desktops at all
<LaserJock> just add in a .menu file with the new structure
<asanchez> there will be very nice if we can organize Education menu depending on student profile
 * Ahmuck_ just had an ephiphany
<asanchez> we have some specific applications for teachers that only appears when teachers log in
<LaserJock> asanchez: yep, I think that can be done fairly easily
<Ahmuck_> asanchez: log in ?  ie, ltsp ?
<asanchez> Ahmuck_, we dont use LTSP in schools
<asanchez> we have try TCOS
<Ahmuck_> how r they logging in ?
<Ahmuck_> ok, /me will google
<asanchez> they authenticate against LDAP server
<bencrisford1> back
<Ahmuck_> http://www.tcosproject.org/
<asanchez> sorry about mi poor english
<Ahmuck_> so it's still a thin client system
<Ahmuck_> i understand you
<nubae> asanchez: habeis mirado alguna vez sugar?
<Ahmuck_> so edubuntu is still being used in a thin client atmosphere
<Ahmuck_> not as a standalone installation or dvd/cd
<nubae> es un sistema para ninos entres 4-14 anos
<Ahmuck_> who chooses your apps, the school board or the instructors
<asanchez> our students can login in any computer at the school and they can access to their documents mounting the entire home by NFS
<nubae> es un sistema construcionista, lo que significa que los ninos pueden colaborar en las actividades
<Ahmuck_> who makes the decision to use TCOS, the local school teacher/admin or the instructor
<asanchez> nubae, we dont have any notice about it, let me google
<nubae> es muy facil para manejar y mantener el menu de aplicaciones, vale la pena echar le un vistazo
<Ahmuck_> instructor/teacher
<nubae> sugarlabs.org
<nubae> es lo que usan los xo... ya sabes el one laptop per child
<nubae> que esta actualmente usado muchisimo en sud america (peru, colombia, paraguay, brazil)
<asanchez> Ahmuck_, we have over 225.000 computers running GuadalinexEdu, the whole applications were demanded by educational comunity
<asanchez> anybody can request a free software application, we package it or develop it and deploy it to schools
<Ahmuck_> who is your educational community?  teachers, parents, administration?  are you using windows apps in the environment via wine?
<Ahmuck_> ah
<nubae> mola eso asanchez, no necesitais ayuda? Hablo perfectamente Espanol y aunque estoy actualmente en Vienna, Austria, he vivido mucho tiempo en la costa del sol
<nubae> estoy pensando en regresar, pero busco un trabajo en el area de linux/educacion
<asanchez> We work for Andalusian regional goverment
<nubae> btw, I am the packager for sugar on opensuse...
<asanchez> Our central goverment is planning to provide one laptop per student in public education in Spain
<Ahmuck_> meeting starts in ?
<highvoltage> pygi: in 20 minutes
<asanchez> Currently we have 1 computer for 2 stundents in schools in Andalusia
<Ahmuck_> k
<nubae> hmmm... pues de verdad, mirar sugar... es una comunidad tremenda con ambiciones increibles
<pygi> highvoltage: thank you kind sir :)
<nubae> buscamos actualmente proyectos pilotos en Espana
<highvoltage> pygi: unfortunately I don't think I can make it
<Svenstaro> did the meeting start
<Svenstaro> or right, 20min
<asanchez> nubae, maybe we can collaborate to make a pilot project
<pygi> highvoltage: I'll tell you what happens on sunday :)
<nubae> seria lo suyo...
<highvoltage> pygi: I only got back to the hostel where I'll be staying today and tomorrow now, and I have either power or internet, and my power is running out
<nubae> sugar necesita muy poca memoria y cpu
<nubae> entonces va bien en maquinas antiguas
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you gonna make the meeting?
<Ahmuck_> nubae: does sugar install on 9.04 ?
<nubae> pero la experiencia sigue siendo super avanzado
<Ahmuck_> does it install on 8.04?
<nubae> install yes... but its an ancient version
<asanchez> our main problem is not old hardware bu new one
<nubae> we need sugar packagers for ubuntu
<Ahmuck_> nubae: can be built from source?
<nubae> asanchez: heh... thats usually not a problem
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have power/internet issues, maybe I can, it's dodgy at this stage
<nubae> yeah u can run jhbuild
<Ahmuck_> nubae: point me a link
<LaserJock> nubae: we can get sugar packages for 9.04
<asanchez> we have to buy over 80.000 computers per year and its very difficult to have support of the latest hardware
<nubae> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Welcome_to_the_Sugar_Labs_wiki
<LaserJock> asanchez: that's huge
<asanchez> this is the main reason we turn back to Ubuntu as mother distribution for guadalinexedu
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> heh... finally a good decision
<nubae> much easier to rely on an upstream community
<asanchez> we have guadalinexedu based on 9.04 launched the same day as jaunty
<nubae> donde estais actualmente asanchez?
<Ahmuck_> LaserJock: can get or have?
<Svenstaro> You guys gonna highlight the channel once the meeting starts?
<nubae> there are currently no 0.84 ubuntu packages for sugar
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: I think we *can* and *should* get
<nubae> only 0.82, which is quite a crappy release, doesn't do it justice
<asanchez> nubae, physically you mean?
<nubae> yeah
<Ahmuck_> k, i'd like them.  i'd like to try and break them
<Ahmuck_> if nubae will take the lead on getting the breakages fixed
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: all we need is people willing to work on the packages
<nubae> well thats what this meeting is about kinda... at least for me
<asanchez> nubae, we work at the Advanced Center for ICT Schools Management at Seville, Spain
<nubae> but first I want the politics out the way
<Ahmuck_> nubae: ur promoting it, i assume you either can or can find someone to patch it when i break it
<nubae> ah... ok :-) cool... I know Sevilla vey well
<LaserJock> Sevilla rocks!
<nubae> Ahmuck_: I would sure hope so ;-)
<LaserJock> nubae: I think we can get rid of politics
<asanchez> nubae, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGA_(Advanced_Management_Centre)
<Ahmuck_> heh, i can break anything, usually under 30 seconds
<LaserJock> nubae: i.e. we get you a PPA and off you go
<nubae> LaserJock: and it will be ok if I fill that PPA with opensuse Build service built .debs?
<LaserJock> nubae: no
<nubae> I really dont want to maintain 2 sets of packages
<LaserJock> nubae: you need to upload source packages
<nubae> then someone else needs to volunteer, I simply dont have the time to maintain 2 branches of the same product
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so we'll need to put a call out for that
<nubae> Unless I'm being Is guadalinux its own iso, or an addoncd like edubuntu?
<nubae> first part was not supposed to be in there
<nubae> sohuld read: Is guadalinux its own iso, or an addoncd like edubuntu?
<Timequeezer> hi guys
<Svenstaro> hey
<LaserJock> him Timequeezer
<LaserJock> wow, we've got a lot of people here today
<nubae> her LaserJock :p
<asanchez> nubae, you can install it using a dvd addon, a cd addon or using guadalinex repository
<nubae> so its an addon to ubuntu?
<Svenstaro> Woah LaserJock, you are the brave man who pulled Edubuntu through the last few releases?
<nubae> thats him
<nubae> in the flesh
<LaserJock> lol
<Svenstaro> Please to meet you sir.
<nubae> well... in the cyber flesh ;-)
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: pleased to meet you as well
<pygi> Svenstaro: he can be evil sometimes, so beware!
 * nubae wonders if the 36 people on the channel is just a summer thing...
<Svenstaro> I'm the annoying guy who writes mails to mailing lists and complains about documentation cosistency and stuff.
<LaserJock> pygi: me?!
<pygi> LaserJock: exactly :p
<asanchez> nubae, yes its an addon (set of packages)
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: nice to have you
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, certainly so.
<Svenstaro> I'm usually delighted about my own existence.
<LaserJock> lol
<nubae> asanchez: well, if u need help, physically on location, let me know
<nubae> my mother lives in Marbella
<bencrisford1> has the meeting started =S ?
<Ahmuck_> in 5 min iirc
<bencrisford1> ah ok
<nubae> asanchez: u should really be using ltsp
<davidgroos> Hmmm... do I have to do something on my end to 'join' the meeting or just kind of hang out here?
<nubae> cluster-ltsp even with that many machines
<nubae> hang and wait
<davidgroos> Good!
<nubae> then talk and complain :p
<davidgroos> :-)
<LaserJock> no complaining!
<nubae> j/k
<Svenstaro> WEeeeeee meeeeeting time :D
<Svenstaro> So everybody knows what to do then, lets save Edubuntu.
<Svenstaro> Somebody start it officially
<LaserJock> ok
<nestor> Hello, all, when does this start?
<Svenstaro> now
<bencrisford1> *drumroll*
<LaserJock> ====  Meeting Starting ====
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to chair the meeting
 * Svenstaro is starting to look dangerously serious.
<nubae> hmmmm theres no meeting bot in here is there
<LaserJock> nope
 * bencrisford1 will save the meeting
<LaserJock> so, first off, thank you all for showing up
<LaserJock> especially on such short notice
<nubae> think this is a record turn out... 40 peoples
<LaserJock> this is going to be a bit of an interesting meeting, having so many people and a lot to talk about
<LaserJock> so I will try to keep thing moving and try to avoid getting bogged down, OK?
<Svenstaro> Right
<bencrisford1> sounds good
<nestor> ok
<LaserJock> 1st order of business, I'd like everybody to introduce themselves and a brief sentence on why you're here
<bencrisford1> My name's Ben, desperate to contribute to hopefully marketing, bug triage/fix, development, artwork, and just however I can.
<bencrisford1> :)
<nestor> Hello, my name is NÃ©stor, I've been using Edubuntu Hardy as a LTSP server in a Non-profit little organization. I love Free Software, and I have been using it for 10 years.
<nestor> I also know C, C++, Qt, Python, Gtk, and have developed some applications, some of them for industrial use, always FLOSS
<Timequeezer> My name is Matze. I just want to look, what you all will discuss ...
<abruptus> the same applies to me
<Svenstaro> Yo, after 18 years, my name is still Sven. I'm getting annoyed by the lack of direction in the Edubuntu project and I want to help out. I know how to make live media, can develop in C++/Python/Shell, know howt to do system administration and can do odd jobs in general. And yes, I'm actually eager to put my skills to good use.
<abruptus> except the name
<Lns> My name is Jordan, I own a company that enjoys deploying Ubuntu/LTSP and Edubuntu into non-profits and school systems in California, USA
<LaserJock> my name is also Jordan and I've been an Ubuntu developer for 4 years and have been working on Edubuntu for about 3 years. I'm currently finishing off a PhD so I will sort of be out of the picture other than advice and guidance for the most part
<asanchez> Hi, my name's Antonio Sanchez, we use an educational version of Ubuntu called GuadalinexEdu (http://www.guadalinexedu.org/guadalinexedu_science_menu.png) that is running in 225.000+ computers at the south of Spain (Andalusia) and we want to collaborate with edubuntu project
<nestor> I'm also from Spain, from the North
<asanchez> We have a 4-5 people working full time for this purpose
<pygi> Hi, my name is Mario. I am upstream developer of certain system libs and various applications, mostly related to burning. I've done a lot of work on bootstraping the Edubuntu handbook project back in the early days of Edubutu. What do I want to do? We'll see :))))
<Ahmuck_> My name is Dale.  I've been using Ubuntu LTSP, selected apps in a not for profit test lab for about 8 months.  I start local lugs and promote *ubuntu in my area.
<davidgroos> Hi--My name is David.  I'm a science teacher, actually been teaching now for 20 years.  9 years ago I had the idea that students needed to have intimate access to computer technology.
<LaserJock> anybody else?
<alkisg> Hi, I'm Alkis, a teacher using Ubuntu with LTSP. Interested in edubuntu future.
<jt4sugar> John Tierney-Educational Outreach Sugar Labs-interested in relationship to new Dell 2100 education netbook as well as plans for Sugar
<davidgroos> I work in inner city schools here in Mpls and yes
<davidgroos> open source is the platform on which I want to grow this project.
<nubae> I have been involved with edubuntu for a while, but I am here to make sure we can coordinate whats happening with opensuse-edu with edubuntu, and look out for sugar upstream... That means I will not be able to work on edubuntu, unless things change whereby I would be convinced to move my work back to edubuntu
<davidgroos> This project is part of the core of my phd work
<Ahmuck_> davidgroos: mpls?
<LaserJock> ok, so we do have an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
<davidgroos> Yes indeed!
<LaserJock> I want to run through the items first
<LaserJock> and then we can go to the general "now what question"
<LaserJock> 1st item: Lns / nubae - Are they in Edubuntu-members yet?
<LaserJock> the answer is no, but they should
 * Lns cries
<bencrisford1> I agree, they should be
<LaserJock> in order to make members we need an Edubuntu Council
<LaserJock> which we really don't have right now
<bencrisford1> In my opinion
<bencrisford1> they should be on that council
<bencrisford1> so they can approve themselves? :P
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> so reforming the EC will be of primary importance
<nubae> well we've talked about this for months... actually I believe it was February
<LaserJock> Action Item: LaserJock will send email to edubuntu-devel to figure out EC
<nubae> the creation of a council
<bencrisford1> I strongly think nubae and Lns should be on that council
<LaserJock> my guess is that we might need to talk to the Community Council about it
<nubae> stagnation is not a good thing, and thats whats been happening with edubuntu for months now, we cant get a council cause there is non... its a chicken and egg situ...
<LaserJock> moving on
<LaserJock> well, we'll talk to CC and figure out a process
<nubae> ok
<bencrisford1> sounds good
<LaserJock> 2nd item: How to effectively advocate/market Edubuntu to schools/school districts
 * bencrisford1 raises hand
<bencrisford1> I had an idea about this
<nubae> At this point though, put Lns up for membership, I dont believe I will have time to work on edubuntu
<nestor> to market Edubuntu, I think that it's essential to tell students about Freedom
<bencrisford1> There is an ubuntu-students team, of which I am a member of
<bencrisford1> if they were to market edubuntu, or help
<nestor> I think Freedom is the most important part of Edubuntu
<Ahmuck_> can you market a product if you don't have a good idea what the product is.  has the future edubuntu product been defined?
<bencrisford1> i agree
<bencrisford1> but the students team IMO is a good idea
<bencrisford1> if they were to work with us on marketing
<bencrisford1> our target audience
<bencrisford1> would be marketing it
<bencrisford1> surely that would have a greatly benficial effect?
<Ahmuck_> yes, are they our target audience?
<bencrisford1> half of it
<bencrisford1> well
<bencrisford1> a fraction of it
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: ok, would you like to send an email to edubuntu-devel outlining your idea?
<bencrisford1> they are Middle school/high school
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Sure
<davidgroos> That seems one of the first things to determine, things flow from one's market, no?
<bencrisford1> I have already added that idea to the students whiteboard
<LaserJock> I agree with Ahmuck_ that it's a bit hard to talk about marketing when we don't know the product or future yet ;-)
<bencrisford1> of course thats true
<davidgroos> chicken and egg...
<bencrisford1> but we know the product is an educational version of ubuntu
<bencrisford1> thats enough to go on to discuss it IMO
<jt4sugar> Make sure Sugar is part of the package-keying on it's ability to foster collaboration-enhances the product
<nestor> LaserJock, is it necessary to call it "a product"?
<LaserJock> Action Item: bencrisford1 is to email edubuntu-devel with idea for working ubuntu-students team on marketing
<LaserJock> nestor: not necessary no
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I am to e-mail?  or will you email?  im cofused =S
<Lns> IMHO underneath the hood, Edubuntu is lots of things - but we could probably market the xdg menu addition of Applications -> Education and all of its related apps..? Seems like something people could understand..the little "Education" menu
<nubae> sugar can't really be in edubuntu until there are 0.84 pacakges
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: you will, it's your idea :-)
<Ahmuck_> about product.  i've seen a lot of "edubuntu" tied with thin clients.  i'm beggining to think the project needs to be split.  a solid ltsp platform, a edubuntu-ltsp, and edubuntu
<nubae> it may even require waiting for 0.86 (tbr August)
<bencrisford1> Lns: I gyess it just is that right now
<bencrisford1> but i didnt realise
<bencrisford1> until now of course
<bencrisford1> because
<nestor> I think that we are missing one important point: in schools, usually, students are taught about not only technical aspects of the things, but also ethical
<bencrisford1> marketing was always the problem
<nubae> yeah my feelings are edubuntu needs to be a distro, not an addon... but thats just opinion
<Ahmuck_> nestor, what would you call it?
<bencrisford1> edubuntu? :P
<LaserJock> well, "Edubuntu" right now is a tad more than just "the apps in the Education menu" but we'll get to that I guess
<nestor> Ahmuck_, I would call it GNU/Linux distribution, but I think this is not really important
<Lns> LaserJock, sure..but a lot of people might not understand the rest of it
<asanchez> I think a very simple guide to implement an Edubuntu based classroom step by step whould be a good point, people like to see how things works and what can do with its
<LaserJock> ok, we're starting to drift a little
<Ahmuck_> sooo, who is edubuntu's target audience.  what has not worked?  why hasn't it worked.  how is it being used?
<asanchez> we dont have this problem because our schools are encouraged to use free software by law
<LaserJock> let's push marketing talk on to the mailing list for now and move on
<bencrisford1> Yeah we dont have much time
<nubae> also this has all been discussed before
<nestor> asanchez, but that's where you live, here at the north of Spain, things are a little different
<Ahmuck_> asanchez: our schools do to, the government subsides ms software and gives it to the schools for free
<LaserJock> I want to make sure we've at least addressed all the item before be launch into the big topic
<asanchez> Ahmuck_, :(
<LaserJock> 3rd item: How teams will be structured in future.
<LaserJock> sub-questions here are:
<LaserJock> How we will tackle the huge number of disorganised/inactive launchpad teams?
<LaserJock> Which teams (if any) will stay, which (if any) will go, and which (if any) will be created?
<nubae> LaserJock: Sugarlabs is a team of about 50 people, but with a core of about 20... u should check out their team structure... its quite a nice layout to think about
<nestor> I would focus Edubuntu into teaching students into Free Software principles, which implies writing articles and papers about this matter, and including it on the distro
<LaserJock> we have core teams that I put in the strategy doc
<bencrisford1> Oh =S
<nubae> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Category:Team
<bencrisford1> but the launchpad is still a problem
<LaserJock> we have a lot of teams on Launchpad
<nubae> Its worth taking a look at anyway
<LaserJock> from the days when people got a little overly excited about creating teams
<LaserJock> nubae: yes, thanks for the link
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I think many teams there are un-necessary, and many teams not there are....
<LaserJock> so we need to look at:
<Lns> if we get contact info for everyone associated with all teams we can nuke most of them probably and consolidate..?
<LaserJock> 1) what teams are needed
<nubae> teams dont mean one person per team, in many ways there are overlaps
<nixternal> my name is Rich, and I am a nub
<LaserJock> 2) what teams are dead or unused
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: This is a complex problem, pehaps we should have a special meeting focused on teams?
<nubae> launchpad has teams that are too similar
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: it is complex
<Lns> does anyone have a list of teams we're talking about?
<LaserJock> we also have the complexity that we don't "own" most of the teams
<LaserJock> it's not trivial to just delete teams
<Ahmuck_> hi nixternal
<nubae> and the owners are incomunicados
<bencrisford1> I think all edubuntu (non-loco) should be approved by LaserJock himself, or the EC when it is created
<LaserJock> I would like to propose that in the future that the Edubuntu Council own all Edubuntu teams
<bencrisford1> I disagree
<Ahmuck_> i would agree
<bencrisford1> I think teams should have a clear and stated leader
<davidgroos> hate to ask a dumb question but... doesn't a lot of this flow from Edubuntu mission statement?
<nubae> LaserJock: we are repeating ourselves from last meeting, we should move to new stuff
<bencrisford1> but the EC have admin rights
<Lns> There's no way to go over the teams' heads to remove them if they're inactive?
<bencrisford1> Yeah
<Ahmuck_> outside of locals, centralized managment of teams is ideal
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: own is not the same as admin
<bencrisford1> I know
<bencrisford1> but thats how i think it should work
<LaserJock> the EC needs to own the teams
<Ahmuck_> er, loco's
<bencrisford1> ah i see
<bencrisford1> perhaps
<bencrisford1> locos dont matter
<LaserJock> because if the owner is missing then we're in trouble
<bencrisford1> there shouldnt be restriction of locos
<LaserJock> anyway, nubae's right, we've been over it
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> well
<bencrisford1> i wouldnt know
<LaserJock> so we'll push that to the mailing list for followup
<LaserJock> who wants to lead the push on team cleanup?
<bencrisford1> ill help out where i can
<nubae> u have to do that
<Lns> if anyone has a list of teams i could look into how to it...
<nubae> u are the only one with the authority
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> Lns search edubuntu on launchpad
<nubae> should show the teams
<Lns> all of em? ok
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I'll take this one
<LaserJock> just to get the ball rolling here
<bencrisford1> I would suggest: To organise this we could have a wiki page with a list of teams, and people post the list of teams that they think should be there
<LaserJock> what I'm hoping for is for people to take tasks here so a single person only has 1 or 2 things they're doing
<bencrisford1> then we can create a generalised opinion
<bencrisford1> and use that
<Ahmuck_> honestly, LJ, ur dissertation is of primary concern
<LaserJock> I know
<Ahmuck_> Lns has agreed to do team cleanup
<LaserJock> so I can only take 1 or 2 things
<LaserJock> ok, fine ;-)
<Lns> =p
<Ahmuck_> next
<LaserJock> Action item: Lns will spearhead the team cleanup process
<LaserJock> Lns: we can talk details later, OK?
 * Lns nods
<LaserJock> 4th item: Attracting developers/contributors to the edubuntu project.
<LaserJock> At the moment working on an 'education edition' just "isn't cool...", how can we market it more effectively to developers?
<nubae> actually, its becoming cool with projects like sugar and edubuntu, opensuse-edu
<Ahmuck_> developers need to have an interest in what they are doing, or are getting paid.  this has been my observation in oss and proprietary software
<Svenstaro> A couple of demonstration videos would do the trick.
<Ahmuck_> nubae loves sugar because he believes in it and is involved
<bencrisford1> I think we should again involve the ubuntu-students, but not the team, I mean just the young ubuntu users
<Ahmuck_> what part of edubuntu is "not cool"
<LaserJock> work
<bencrisford1> i added that
<nubae> tru dat.... I have a job that pays me and then I have my real job... sugar
<bencrisford1> but i dont think it "isnt cool"
<asanchez> I think specific objetives (new applications, new classroom services) can motivate people to attract their job
<bencrisford1> i just think that people think that
<LaserJock> educationally stuff is generally not a cool for the hacker types that do a lot of development in Ubuntu
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> and people who are busy
<LaserJock> generally I've seen more upstream projects like Sugar, KDE Edu, etc. interested
<bencrisford1> busy developer + educational thingymibobby
<Svenstaro> The documentation is pretty distracting too, it should be rather centralized.
<LaserJock> but they lack the packaging experience
<asanchez> We have over 500.000 students using ubuntu educational, any kind of simple programing contest can motivate students to collaborate with the project
<Svenstaro> There are so many sources of *different* information.
<nestor> I would separate the groups into groups devoted to technical concerns, and others devoted to educative concerns.
<nestor> *educational, sorry
<Svenstaro> Lets have the ONE wiki to rule them all.
<davidgroos> How about conncetions with people who are researchers in universities and working on education stuff?
<Ahmuck_> nestor: exactly
<bencrisford1> I think we should target the young people more
<jt4sugar> Sponsor semester of code projects at Universities
<bencrisford1> this is for them
<LaserJock> well, there are lots of ideas here
<Ahmuck_> which goes back to teams.  core teams.  build the foundation first and then move on
<pygi> davidgroos: I work on education-related research, yet I'm still a student
<bencrisford1> edubuntu is for young people, so why cant they make it themselves?
<Ahmuck_> er up the laddre
 * Lns likes bencrisford1's idea
<Svenstaro> Also, there should be videos targetted for a specific use case, for example setting up a computer lab.
<nestor> Svenstaro, that's very good indeed.
<Ahmuck_> Svenstaro: i can prolly help with that
<asanchez> i think like nestor that its importan to separate educational purposes of technical ones
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well, frankly they're pretty unreliable and there are issues
<LaserJock> right
<nestor> I would include some material for school and university: free school books, free university books...
<nestor> (think about Wikibooks)
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I am a young ubuntu user and I am yet to be called unreliable
<Svenstaro> Might I show you my diagram that I prepared for today.
<LaserJock> generally it's the exception to the rule
<nestor> I think young people likes Freedom more than we do.
<Svenstaro> http://88.198.54.112/pub/svens_stuff/Edubuntu.png
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: nice
<Ahmuck_> Svenstaro: hah, i created something similar :)
<bencrisford1> Svenstaro: Thats nice work :)
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck_, well, does it match up?
<asanchez> I think students can develop very interesting educational apps themselves
<Svenstaro> Thanks people, and how do you like the contents of it?
<stavrosLinux> my 10 cents_ maybe its time to move to DVD and include ubuntu-edubuntu-kubuntu
<davidgroos> Svenstaro: I like it.
<LaserJock> ok, we're getting off on a tangent again
<Ahmuck_> it's similar, mine is more focused on what apps work in edubuntu
 * LaserJock hauls in the reigns
<nestor> asanchez, I know the work that people is doing at Extremadura, I think it would be nice to hear from your experience with young and not so young students
<LaserJock> let's start a thread on edubuntu-devel about how to get more devs
<jt4sugar> A series of get-to-know video segments 5min a piece that walk non-technical folk through process would be super helpful especially if you want teachers
<LaserJock> who wants to start that off?
<asanchez> some of the schools management tools are being iniciated by students in Andalusia
<bencrisford1> nestor: How about hearing my experience as a young student? :P
<nestor> bencrisford1, nice :-D go on
<Svenstaro> stavrosLinux, agreed.
<pygi> LaserJock: the point is to get reliable developers I assume, not just pump up the numbers
<bencrisford1> Not much for me to say realy I was kind of joking :P, my school uses windows and mac
<bencrisford1> im trying to convert it
<LaserJock> pygi: yes, indeed
<bencrisford1> but at the moment there isnt any high-profile education distros
<bencrisford1> that we hear of down where i live anyway
<Svenstaro> jt4sugar, exactly.
<pygi> LaserJock: we can't get that over-night then I'm afraid
<pygi> LaserJock: have I already asked you if you'll be at UDS?
<LaserJock> pygi: no, I won't be
<Ahmuck_> to get more devs u match them with projects that are within their skillset as they volunteer.  if your not sure what the projects are, how can you match them
<pygi> aww ... ok, I have some discussion scheduled with highvoltage so we'll see what comes out of that :)
<asanchez> bencrisford1, take a look at www.guadalinexedu.org, I think can merge with edubuntu project and its a higly used educational distribution
<LaserJock> ok, so who's going to start the dev conversation on the mailing-list?
<nestor> I think Edubuntu is very important, since it's the first contact with Free Software with many people, used to privative software
<pygi> LaserJock: I will
<bencrisford1> asanchez: Will do :)
<pygi> but first a suggestion, if we have the resources to do it
<bencrisford1> Before we move on, I have one last idea
<nestor> asanchez, nice suggestion
<bencrisford1> how about contacting some of the teaches for the ubuntu-learning project
<LaserJock> Action item: pygi to start thread on edubuntu-devel about building the developer community
<bencrisford1> in the development section
<bencrisford1> they would help
<LaserJock> ok, one sec
<pygi> people would feel much more welcomed in the community if we could assign each potential new contributor (with certain limits of course) a mentor
<asanchez> I have to take a train in few minutes, nice to meet you every people, i'll read logs later.
<bencrisford1> good thinking pygi
<LaserJock> asanchez: thanks for coming
<jt4sugar> Think about building developers from scratch-by doing so you'll have mapped and video segmented the whole process(Now you have a process any University can deploy)
<alkisg> Does anyone share my opinion that edubuntu, being just a selection of apps, has almost nothing to do with upstream development?
<pygi> LaserJock: there's a number of oldies here that might be willing to act as mentors in various areas
<LaserJock> pygi: right, but right now we essentially have 0 devs so mentoring is .... an issue
<Ahmuck_> pygi: similar to gsoc ?
<pygi> Ahmuck_: similarly, yes
<pygi> LaserJock: I know at least three devs willing to do that (I think)
<Ahmuck_> *sigh* ... i suggested this a couple of days ago
<LaserJock> pygi: ok, so let's talk about that on the thread
<pygi> LaserJock: you, highvoltage (don't shoot me :P) and me (if I'm coming back)
<pygi> sure
<LaserJock> Ahmuck_: I thought you were  just saying we should get GSoC students, which isn't an option
<Svenstaro> alkisg, pretty much.
<alkisg> If it was a distro, some devs could be attracted.
<LaserJock> alkisg: largely yes, Edubuntu should *not* be an upstream development team where possible
<nestor> alkisg, maybe you're right: the kind of things that Edubuntu needs are mainly educational ones: Free Books, for example, and links to Free Information pages
<bencrisford1> We could collaborate with ubuntu-learning perhaps?
<LaserJock> ok, but we're wandering. let's hit the last item real quick before we get there
<pygi> nestor: writing a book takes a non-trivial amount of time
<LaserJock> Intro: Ubuntu Community Learning Project - different goals/ideals, but projects should know about each other (pleia2)
<LaserJock> pleia2: you're on
<alkisg> That's what I'd like edubuntu to be: a distro collecting all the good *existing* stuff a teacher needs, with as little developing as possible.
<nestor> pygi, yes, surely, but there's plenty of Free Books that you can include on the distro, just finding them on the Internet
<LaserJock> alkisg: ok, but by "developers" I'm meaning distro developers
<pygi> nestor: most of them not suited to schools
<LaserJock> just to be clear
<alkisg> LaserJock: you mean packagers? I thought you meant programmers..
<pleia2> hi everyone, I just wanted to drop by from the Ubuntu Learning project :)
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<LaserJock> alkisg: yes, packagers and maintainers
<LaserJock> alkisg: we call them devs
<alkisg> Ah, ok, I misunderstood then.
<LaserJock> np
<Lns> hi pleia2 =)
<pleia2> you may recall Belinda Lopez briefly introduced us here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-April/002869.html
<pleia2> so I just wanted to reach out and say hi, and that we're willing to help out edubuntu if you can think of ways that our resources can be helpful
<nestor> pygi, surely, but think about wikipedia: it has many many simple articles in many languages. I don't usually look for books for children, but there's plenty of material: a filter for Fifefox for safe navigation, for example
<pleia2> we have different goals, but we're all in education
<LaserJock> pleia2: so do you think we could get access to the moodle installation?
<LaserJock> for instance
<pleia2> LaserJock: absolutely
<pleia2> LaserJock: the moodle server was just launched last week so we're still getting specifics sorted out, but we want to make it as open to the community as possible
<bencrisford2> (I apoligise for my internet, and apoligise in advance in case it goes again)
<LaserJock> pleia2: ok, cool
<pleia2> right now it's up at http://learn.ufbt.net/
<LaserJock> does anybody from the  Learning project pay any attention to edubuntu-devel?
<LaserJock> it would be good to have some sort of liaison that keeps up with what's going on in both teams
<pleia2> I am not sure anyone does at the moment, but I'll probably end up hopping on it
<pleia2> we don't have our lists.ubuntu.com email list yet, unfortunately
<pleia2> edubuntu-devel - what else would you suggest I join?
<bencrisford2> LaserJock: I am planning to get involved in the learning project
<bencrisford2> so hopefully I could help out with that too
<nestor> how many people agree that it whould be good to separate technical development with educational one? (the application itself versus it's information)
<nubae> alkisg: I share your opinion
<LaserJock> pleia2: that'd probably due for now
<pleia2> LaserJock: ok :)
<Svenstaro> nestor, elaborate with example please.
<nestor> Svenstaro, ok
<LaserJock> nestor: let's wait on that for a minute
<nubae> but I'm not ready to do a fork... I would, however, consider trying to use susestudio to make custom isos
<nestor> look at the example: I have tried to get my mother, who's a teacher, into Wikipedia
<nestor> but it's not possible, since she has very little knowledge of how Wikipedia works
<nubae> should be possible to make customised edubuntu isos via that route
<nubae> or at least make usb edubuntu
<pleia2> anyway, I don't have any firm ideas about how we can all work together, but I wanted to open the door
<nestor> oh, sorrty
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: would you like to look into the Learning team and see what kinds of things might apply to Edubuntu?
<nubae> which imho is really really necessary to show off what edubuntu cando/is
<bencrisford2> LaserJock: sure
<nubae> We should not be afraid to work together with other edu teams of other distros
<nubae> just cause this is buntu centric doesnt mean we can't use other tools to make life easier for us
<LaserJock> Action item: bencrisford2 to look into collaboration opportunities with the Ubuntu Learning project
<Lns> nubae +1
<bencrisford2> LaserJock: I beter write that down! :P
<din_os> +2
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: yes
<nubae> how does it work with comercial .debs... ie the ones that dont carry source?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> peek
<nubae> where dot hey live LaserJock?
<LaserJock> nubae: what do you mean?
<nubae> where would one store packages with only release code and no src code?
<LaserJock> well, you still need a source package and that would go to Multiverse
<nubae> from opensusebuild service stance this is not because we dont want to release source, but rather it can't do that right now
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> are there no comercial closed source packages installable?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but the binary is still in a "source package"
<nubae> and what about distributing the source as a tarball?
<nubae> and not as src deb
<Svenstaro> We can build our own iso building system if need to be.
<nubae> that seems kind of silly seeing as those tools already exist
<LaserJock> well, the source package has a tarball
<Ahmuck_> meeting over?
<nubae> I'm looking at a way to couple this stuff laterally
<LaserJock> we have good tools for building packages and for building .isos
<LaserJock> that's not really a problem here
<bencrisford2> is there an irc log for this channel?
<bencrisford2> I was hoping to save the meeting
<annma> I missed the beginning of th emeeting
<LaserJock> the problem has always every been that we need more hands doing the work
<cbx33> buiklding an iso build system is non-trivial
<nubae> I dont know of any tool like susestudio for ubuntu or build service (its gpl btw)
<annma> is there some update on Canonical views about Edubuntu?
<Ahmuck_> bencrisford yes
<cbx33> building a one off iso is hard enough
<nubae> oh? there is?
<LaserJock> annma: basically they don't care much what we do, but no official statement
<nubae> so what is it then?
<bencrisford2> LaserJock: I think at one point somewhere I suggested appointing a designated canonical liason
<cbx33> LaserJock: you think if the need was there Canonical would allow us to use the build tools?
<nubae> so they reallly dont care tehn
<bencrisford2> like a canonical employee
<LaserJock> ok, hang on guys just a sec
<bencrisford2> to carry our thoughts to them and vice versa
<nubae> what happened to RichEd=
<nubae> ?
<LaserJock> nubae: he left
<Svenstaro> cbx33, well, all you do is script your local building suite using php / python, not too hard actually. You just have to make sure it doesn't get abused.
<nubae> really?
<nubae> !
<nubae> =?
<LaserJock> nubae: yes
<nubae> oh wow, I didnt know that
<cbx33> LaserJock: go on
<nubae> so the education part of ubuntu is really dead then
 * cbx33 can tell he was collecting thoughts
<Ahmuck_> meeting over ?
<nubae> from the support stance
<nubae> not community
<LaserJock> well
<pygi> nubae: why do you think it worked when he was around?
<LaserJock> I think Canonnical still sells support for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but I don't think Canonical will be paying for Edubuntu developers or staff
<nubae> no I dont think he did a particularly well job, but then thats just opinion
<LaserJock> *however*
<nubae> which I should probably keep to myself
<Ahmuck_> LaserJock: i'd be afraid to sell support for something i didn't know if it worked or not.  so if i buy support, they will get issues fixed?
<LaserJock> ok, don't take this the wrong way but everybody please be quiet for a second
<pygi> I think Edubuntu was at its best with ogra as paid dev, and Jane as a serious cheering lady :)
<nubae> right now I think canonical is just gonna wait and see what happens to the netbook market
<nubae> thats y ogra is on that side of the fence
<LaserJock> Canonical has essentially decided to pull out development resources for Edubuntu
<Ahmuck_> then to get dev support, i need to buy support.  get a community donate button to buy 1 instance of support and pound the h* out of the current ubuntu-ltsp/edubuntu and get the issues fixed ?
<cbx33> shhh everyone
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu still has a lot of support from Canonical
<nubae> LaserJock: come on... how can u say that?
<LaserJock> right now we still have ISO builders
<LaserJock> we have hosting
<nubae> there isn't even a canonical person present
<LaserJock> we have edubuntu.org
<nubae> ok, thats about it
<nubae> we dont even have mirrors anymore
<nestor> I leave, back in a minute, I hope
<LaserJock> we have all the Launchpad infrastructure, etc.
<Ahmuck_> and administrative overhead
<LaserJock> so
<cbx33> please people....let LaserJock speak
<nubae> I think saying we have 'a lot of support' is a misleading statement
<nubae> some support ok
<LaserJock> well, the computing power they let us have is pretty expensive
<LaserJock> and hosting
<LaserJock> several hundred dollars a month I'd guess
<nubae> sigh
<nubae> not really
<LaserJock> but whatever, I'm not here to defend Canonical or anything
<LaserJock> I'm just saying we already have Ubuntu infrastructure at our disposal
<LaserJock> so we shouldn't really worry about that part
<nubae> hosting with the traffic we see on edubuntu is probably about 50â¬ a year
<LaserJock> edubuntu.org isn't expensive
<LaserJock> but there's quite a bit of other stuff
<LaserJock> but again, that's not the issue here
<nubae> right
<nubae> so what else is there?
<nixternal> LaserJock: UDS?
<Ahmuck_> sooo, i'm not sure (after all has been said and done in the meeting) where edubuntu is going.
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that Edubuntu is a part of Ubuntu and Ubuntu has quite nice infrastructure
<jt4sugar> Would Canonical support a ESoC-Edubuntu Semester of Code at Universities? Good PR for them-University students need to know more about Open source
<LaserJock> so let's not go reinventing the wheel
<LaserJock> jt4sugar: doubt it
<Lns> Why do we even care so much about canonical?
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> Lns: agreed
<LaserJock> so there's good an bad here
<nubae> we shouldnt care
<LaserJock> on one hand we're not getting a paid dev, etc.
<Svenstaro> Well now that all the overhead stuff is talked about, can we actually worry about Edubuntu itself in a technical way?
<Svenstaro> We haven't talked about docs at all, for example.
<nubae> If someone decides to release an edubuntu usb/cd/dvd, will the edubuntu community support it?
<LaserJock> on the other hand, Canonical seems quite willing to let us build Edubuntu into whatever we want
<nubae> thats my question
<Lns> LaserJock, that's def. a good thing i think. let the community take control
<Ahmuck_> Lns, how.  through approval of people for this and that?
<nubae> alkisg: I believe u want to know the same thing right?
<LaserJock> ok, I think in order for Edubuntu to support something fully it needs to be done within Ubuntu infrastructure
<cbx33> Lns: good in theory
<nubae> if we create it, will you support it?
<cbx33> LaserJock: I totally agree here
<cbx33> and if I may put in a few thoughts
<alkisg> nubae: yes, and I'm sure that canonical won't :(
<LaserJock> however, I could see having some unofficial builds for testing and proof-of-concept
<cbx33> one of the problems we had before was that Canonical controlled everything
<cbx33> in a sense
<nubae> well usb sticks are totally taking off as a method of distributing edu distros
<bencrisford2> (can someone please link me to the channel log?)
<cbx33> we sometimes begged to have more of a helping hand so that we could help out Ogra
<Lns> well yeah - we have no official community structure here. we need a council, etc.
<nubae> its working very well here in Germany and Austria for schools
<LaserJock> but they must be plaining seen as unofficial builds I think or else we've just going to split apart and end in a disaster
<cbx33> Now we have the opportunity
<cbx33> to train up people
<cbx33> to use the awesome build system that canonical has
<nubae> please clarify that LaserJock....
<cbx33> if they are willing to let us use it
<alkisg> I didn't want to interfere, but the meeting will be over soon and I'd like to put this question *explicitly* on the table: Do people here want edubuntu to continue being a selection of applications, or do they want it to become a distro again? And if so, are they willing to contribute to make it happen?
<LaserJock> nubae: having say 5-10 different "Edubuntus" will be way confusing
<pygi> nubae: he said there must be planning around unofficial builds
<nubae> I'm talkign about 1 full distro dvd or usb stick
<cbx33> alkisg: I for one think it works as a distro
<Svenstaro> alkisg, I definitely want it to be a distro else I wouldn't want to contribute.
<cbx33> it worked well as before
<LaserJock> we need to be able to clearly say "this is Edubuntu"
<nubae> it would include ltsp, sugar, and maybe 100 universe and multiverse edu apps
<Ahmuck_> if it's a distro, is it a school system?
 * alkisg also votes for a distro in a live dvd
<LaserJock> ok
<nubae> as well as education theme, splashscreen, icon set, etc
<Ahmuck_> or just ubuntu with a few apps?
<cbx33> when canonical broke it off, we lost our End product
<LaserJock> let's back out for a second
<LaserJock> please
<Lns> question - can it be an addon AND a psuedo-distro (such as a live-cd: Ubuntu live, with Edubuntu add-on integrated) ?
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck_, it will be a multi-system, hopefull.y
<cbx33> it was something for the community to work towards
<cbx33> lns of course
<pygi> PEOPLE!
<nubae> Lns: thats not a bad idea
<pygi> we're going nowhere, please STOP!
<cbx33> it was essentiall a meta-package
<LaserJock> let's not squabble of how we deliver stuff right now
<nubae> so we have the ubuntu cd in its normal format, but it launches the addon when inserted
<cbx33> agreed
<LaserJock> I think everybody is pretty much in agreement that we want to deliver Edubuntu in the best way possible
<pygi> To deliver things, we need development development development
<nubae> and then we can install all the extra components by choice as addon products
<pygi> and we don't have the resources to do it
<pygi> (right now)
<nubae> pygi: there are 43 people in here
<pygi> nubae: you are mistaken
<nubae> opensuse-edu does it with a community of about 8
<Lns> who can silence? =p
<pygi> nubae: experience tells me that a lot of people talk, yet few deliver
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> it takes a lot of effort to maintain a distro up to Ubuntu standards
<nubae> but if u dont have a little faith right now, what's the point in even having this meeting?
<LaserJock> well, the point is to organize effort I think
<LaserJock> but we need to be realistic
<Lns> LaserJock, what's the question on the table right now?
<pygi> exactly. cbx33, willing to mentor a Edubuntu student? :)
<nubae> I'll clarify my position, and it seems alkisg feels the same... if edubuntu is just about fixing bugs in officially supported edu apps by canonical, I have no interest in it
<LaserJock> Canonical had 1 full time employee working on Edubuntu and he had a hard time making it all work as a distro
<LaserJock> nubae: neither do I
<LaserJock> nubae: nobody disagrees with that
<alkisg> I totally agree with nubae. And also some people here said that they're going to make a live distro for themselves if edubuntu isn't going to be one, so I suspect there are people that can work on that.
<LaserJock> but the practicality of things are that it's not trivial to just pop out a distro of good quality
<Lns> We obviously still need people that work on that stuff. Both can be a part of edubuntu.
<LaserJock> so we'll need to work up to that
<davidgroos> gotta leave--this has been educational--look forward to following the resulting threads on the list.
<Svenstaro> nubae, I concur
<LaserJock> right now we could build a DVD and send it out there but it'd be crap
<Lns> thx davidgroos
<LaserJock> so I think the first order of business is getting the software we ship in order
<nubae> LaserJock: I'm pretty sure I'm capabale of some of this stuff so thats y I'm asking
<LaserJock> and then we can work on how to ship it the best
<LaserJock> nubae: sure, I think we can get it done at some point
<nubae> if I for example, along with svenstaro and alkisg choose to go down the route of creating a live dvd/usb stick... will the communtiy support us?
<nubae> or do we choose a different name and fork?
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> I think that's the wrong way to look at it
<nubae> LaserJock: we need a clear answer
<LaserJock> it's not about Edubuntu "blessing" somebodies work
<pygi> nubae: clear answer from my POV is - there are more priority issues then live dvd/usb stick
<nubae> yes it is... its abotu being able to mention it in documentation, in marketing on the website, in distribution
<LaserJock> but the point is
<nubae> LaserJock: is that your stance too?
<LaserJock> it should be Edubuntu's DVD/USB disk
<LaserJock> not about Edubuntu "blessing" somebody else's work
<nubae> nobody is talking about blessing anything
<nubae> we're talkign about using the edubuntu resources
<Svenstaro> Can we talk about refactoring the docs at some point in this meeting? I think its a major point :/
<LaserJock> so I think you should certainly pursue the possibility of doing a Live DVD or USB stick
<LaserJock> I think a USB image would be pretty sweet
<nubae> stop for a second and just give a clear answer yes, or no
<LaserJock> I would say yes, pursue it within Ubuntu's infrastructure
<nubae> sorry to sound so hard, but I want to know where to put my efforts
<nubae> ok, cool
<Lns> nubae, i'd support it. If you, as part of the Edubuntu community, want to take the initiative and coordinate with others to create it, I dont think anybody would NOT support it, as long as it aligns with the other members' goals and projects within the community
<LaserJock> perhaps we can get the existing .iso replaced
<LaserJock> so we don't use up too much disk space
<LaserJock> I don't know
<Ahmuck_> well, i'm still confused where edubuntu i heading.  i'm confused on what it intends to be.  i've got to go.  Svenstaro i'm interested in docs.  i'll hang around in the channel throughout the year and try to hammer out issues as they come up.  i've got to go for now.
<nubae> good, well it would be an image that could be written to whatever medium
<alkisg> If edubuntu is going back to being a distro, I'm also willing to help.
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure if it's going to work out
<Lns> i think "distro" might be the wrong word though
<nubae> probably set up in chunks, it needs to be studied, but the technical parts are perfectably doable by many on this channel
<alkisg> LaserJock: I don't think it's working out _now_. People are leaving the ship.
<LaserJock> I know
<nubae> distro is a marketing term Lns
<Lns> do we want ourselves to be seen as "different than" ubuntu?
<nubae> I know technically its not that
<nubae> but marketing wise, we want to be known as a distro
<nubae> or we loose a hell of a lot of steam
<LaserJock> well, the technical issue is if we fork off Ubuntu
<nubae> for example, studio, xubuntu and kubuntu are all known as distros
<alkisg> Edubuntu == ubuntu with all the good educational stuff we can find.
<nubae> edu is the only one that is different
<nubae> right!
<Lns> ok... /me thinks 'distro' is bad marketing for sub-distros of ubuntu, but that's just mho
<nubae> qutie simple explanation that everyone will understand
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, but that means we also have to maintain "our" ubuntu
<alkisg> LaserJock: that's why I'm here
<nubae> we have to do that right now too LaserJock
<LaserJock> no
<nubae> there is no difference
<alkisg> (I mean I'm willing to work on that)
<LaserJock> we don't
<LaserJock> right now we don't have to do anything wrt Ubuntu
<kjcole> Anyone here going to NECC (National Educational Computing Conference) here in DC, June 28 - July 1?
<LaserJock> it's just "magic"
<nubae> I just dont see the big difference technically
<nubae> but marketing wise its massive
<LaserJock> instead, we'll have to sync seeds
<LaserJock> and do a *whole* lot more testing
<alkisg> LaserJock: if we could, it would be nice to have a karmic release (=really beta), so that we gather experience for an LTS after that.
<nubae> well there are lots of people here for that
<Lns> nubae, marketing a "distro" to people is bad marketing imho anyway. people don't know what linux is most times in education, let alone a specific linux 'distro'
<nubae> right, we'd want to maintain just a LTS
<nubae> so we can work on it for years to come
<alkisg> Because our resources aren't really vast, so it'll mainly be LTS releases.
<LaserJock> we'll have bootsplash maintenance, installer maintenance, kernel issues, etc.
<Svenstaro> Can we make a summary of points we talked about and points we have not talked about yet?
<nubae> all shared with ubuntu
<nubae> I dont see the big deal
<nubae> our kernel is gonna be no different
<LaserJock> well, it will at times
<nubae> how?
<LaserJock> because it depends on when we build
<LaserJock> we might get Ubuntu before a critical fix
<nubae> well forget it, lets not get weighed down in technical issues, u can explain it to me private later
<LaserJock> it's just really not a trivial thing
<nubae> well non of its trivial
<LaserJock> not that I think it shouldn't be done
<nubae> it was done before
<LaserJock> but it's just that it's a lot of work, and nobody here has experience with it
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> with less resources than now
<LaserJock> and it was a full time person
<LaserJock> and they said it was a lot of work
<nubae> just one person, we are 43 in here right now
<nubae> surely that makes a community
<LaserJock> sadly no
<Svenstaro> I'm a student, I'm practically a full time person if I put myself to it.
<nubae> look, we have to start being positive about this stuff
<LaserJock> if people want to dig and and learn everything and do it then awesome
<pygi> nubae: realistic
<LaserJock> well, some of us aren't too positive, I know
<nubae> or nothing will happen again, and in a month we'll have another meetting talking about the same stuff again
<LaserJock> and I don't want to be a drag
<LaserJock> but I've been doing this for a few years
<LaserJock> and I've seen people come and go
<alkisg> pygi, a sad reality is that most people here will do _nothing_ if edubuntu stays a set of apps. As a distro it may also die, but I think it has better chances.
<LaserJock> so I'm just being a bit cautious
<nubae> great, you're one person, so lets split this up with people who want to help
<nubae> alkisg: +1
<Svenstaro> Er wait, can'
<Lns> can we at *least* define ourselves as a community right now? How about we all work on what we want to work on, related to Ubuntu and education.
<Svenstaro> Er wait, can't we just all agree to make it a 'distro' or leave it be as it is right here right now?
<LaserJock> ok, so let's get somebody to spearhead this
<pygi> Lns: anarchy, no go :)
<Lns> pygi, not anarchy in the least
<nubae> both me an alkisg have been here for a quite some time and I have faith that he can do a lot of this stuff, I've also got faith in the enthusiasm shown by those new comers to the project in the last months
<nubae> so lets move forward
<LaserJock> ok, so nubae and alkisg will look into distro possibilities?
<nubae> yes
<alkisg> Yes, but on the promise that it's feasible (canonical hosting etc)
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> Action item: nubae and alkisg to look into the possibility of going back to single install disk/media
<Lns> if canonical hosting doesn't work we can find another host
<alkisg> Lns, it won't be edubuntu then
<Lns> ugh
<nubae> not going back, making a new usb/dvd iso image for marketing purposes
<Lns> yes it would
<alkisg> Trademark
<Svenstaro> I have a dedicated server we can use, not a biggie.
<LaserJock> I don't know
<nubae> that contains the current addon + whatever else we have time/want to do
<LaserJock> we eat up a lot of stuff
<LaserJock> I believe Canonical can add people as mirrors
<LaserJock> but I think we should do development and master hosting with Canonical
<nubae> well I'm sure if we can prove there is a market, they may jump back on board
<Lns> alkisg, if that's the case and they really care, and it gets to that point we can change the name
<LaserJock> especially since all the build tools already are in place
<alkisg> Lns, then it'll be "just another distro". Edubuntu now still has a name.
<nubae> right it needs the name
<LaserJock> we don't need another distro here
<LaserJock> it'll work out
<nubae> otherwise, might as well use opensuse studio
<LaserJock> we just might need to do some compromising and working up to things
<LaserJock> so some patience might be in order
<nubae> sure
<LaserJock> but I think it's totally doable
<nubae> is there anyone here who wants to do artwork?
<Svenstaro> I can do artwork.
<alkisg> Or docs?
 * Lns shrugs...again, i think we should focus on us as a community more than names and hosting providers
<Svenstaro> And docs
<nubae> ie, themes, icon sets, backgrounds, splashscreens?
<LaserJock> Lns: right
<Svenstaro> But I'd rather work on the big picture to be honest.
<nubae> cool, ok Svenstaro to study new edu themes, icon sets, splashscreen
<nubae> that is the big pic
<LaserJock> artwork is a tough one
<LaserJock> we've got some old stuff
<nubae> the look and feel is what most people assume is the distro
<LaserJock> but I think we need to get more themability
<Svenstaro> Yes, but to be honest I believe my distro building experiences are needed rather than that.
<LaserJock> for age-appropriate artwork
<Svenstaro> I'd love to work on the website and remove a lot of ballast and make it simple.
<Svenstaro> And structure the wiki and so on.
<Svenstaro> I hate inconsistencies.
<nubae> ok so ud rather work on packaging, iso creation?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: ok, you feel like taking on leading a wiki cleanup?
<nubae> I think we have people for the website... thats kind of the easy part
<Svenstaro> Yes, I do that all the time anyway.
<nubae> we need folk for the hard stuff
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, a website clean up rather, involving all the aspects. If I may get access, that is.
<LaserJock> ok, so how many people have build a debian source package before?
<LaserJock> *built
 * Svenstaro raises hand.
<alkisg> Are any other people here interested in contributing? Or it's just us that are talking?
 * nubae raises hand, though it was just tutorial based, not real one
 * alkisg raises hand
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: how much packaging have you done?
<LaserJock> cbx33: still around?
<pygi> LaserJock: ++ I did :p
<nubae> we need people to volunteer for development, docs, website, artwork, distribution and packagin
<pygi> LaserJock: networkmanager for example :p
 * pygi hides
<LaserJock> lol
<alkisg> Really, edubuntu with 5 people doesn't stand a chance...
<LaserJock> really?
<alkisg> Heh :)
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, lots of packaging for Arch, little for Ubuntu, I always thought Ubuntu packagign is more complicated than it needs to be and I prefer to keep things simple but I can package Debian package.
<Svenstaro> packages
<LaserJock> that's a lot better than it has been
 * nubae hits pygi with a pillow with a big NM on it
<nubae> Svenstaro: I agree other packaging systems are much simpler
<LaserJock> ok, so we have the following people who know something about packaging:
<nubae> rpms are trivial for example
<Svenstaro> I prefer Wicd to NM but that's just because I work on that project :>
<LaserJock> Svenstaro, nubae, alkisg, pygi, cbx33, highvoltage, nixternal, LaserJock
<LaserJock> that's awesome
<LaserJock> ok, how many people would be willing to work on docs?
<pygi> LaserJock: I can again spearhead the Handbook thingy
<nubae> well me and sbalneav did most of the ltsp documentation
<nubae> which was ripped out of the handbook
<pygi> nubae: :P
<nubae> rigth now the handbook is VERY ltsp centric
<nixternal> no more documentation for me!
<nubae> but we can do the reverse of what we did with ltsp docos
<pygi> tho that's still an idea, we'll see what happens with my time, then I'll be able to say
<nubae> rip out just the non ltsp stuff
<nixternal> time to pass that buck on, I somehow got suckered into it a few years back :p
<pygi> nixternal: haha, didn't you work with us on the handbook too? :-P
<nixternal> ya, I did the initial conversion with HedgeMage iirc
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> maybe let's not worry about docs too much right now
<nubae> it just needs ltsp out and updating
<nixternal> ya, you should write apps so good that they don't need docs anyways right?
<nubae> thinking back to ltsp docos, took a good week of work to get it in current condition
<LaserJock> it seems like most devs are willing do some doc duty
<nixternal> like everything should have a warning or information dialog with a paragraph of text in it :p
<LaserJock> darn right ;-)
 * pygi has to sleep, sorry
<LaserJock> np
<pygi> traveling early tomorrow
 * HedgeMage looks up
<nixternal> later pygi, nice seein' ya again
<HedgeMage> I was pinged?
<pygi> LaserJock: I'll send a mail with some details tomorrow
<HedgeMage> oh, hi nixternal :)
<nixternal> howdy HedgeMage, we have the OGs here
<LaserJock> pygi: good, thanks
<HedgeMage> OGs?
<nixternal> where did Pete go? he doesn't talk to me anymore :p
<nixternal> Original Gangsters
<nubae> so HedgeMage just volunteered for documentation then  right? :p
<pygi> nixternal: he's famous now :p
<HedgeMage> Ahh :)
 * pygi hides
<nixternal> hehe
<pygi> really out :p
<LaserJock> ok, so I think it's important to kinda take a step back for a second
<HedgeMage> nubae: Sorry, I am doing *no* volunteer stuff until I can get my new employees trained and up to speed (sometime in June, the latter of the two starts on June 1)
<LaserJock> I'd like to get people thinking about what they can commit to for Karmic
<HedgeMage> I'm *swamped*
<nubae> HedgeMage: :p
<Svenstaro> Er wait, did I just understand that you people want to rip the LTSP out of Edubuntu?
<HedgeMage> Between that and LF starting summer break in a couple of weeks, yikes!
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, technically it already has been
<nubae> well, unless we actually include ltsp in edubuntu, yes
<nixternal> oh, annma is here...I know she said something recently about Edubuntu...you know us KDE folks want to take it over
<LaserJock> Edubuntu hasn't shipped LTSP for a while
<LaserJock> nixternal: nooooooo!!!!
<nubae> anyway, it should be seperated as  an addon moule
<nixternal> oh ya
<nubae> module
<nubae> and anyway, the upstream documentation is really much much more updated now
<nubae> the old stuff is just crud
<nixternal> ltsp is staying in ubuntu alternate
<LaserJock> I think LTSP is going to land in the Server Team in the future
<cbx33> HedgeMage: WOW
 * cbx33 waves
<HedgeMage> hi, cb!
<HedgeMage> How have you been?
<cbx33> yeh not bad
<Svenstaro> For me, the LTSP is a big reason I liked the idea of Edubuntu. My school has very old computers and configuration is done by walking to each computer individually.
 * pwnguin wonders what edubuntu is left with sans LTSP
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'm glad to hear it.
<cbx33> you HedgeMage ?
<nubae> Right, its not going away, tis just being seperated
<LaserJock> pwnguin: lots of good apps and content hopefully
<nixternal> pwnguin: the greatest edu apps in the world :)
<nubae> so it can be updated
<LaserJock> right
<Lns> cbx33, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TCM-NG :)
<HedgeMage> pwnguin: Art, edu apps, metapackages for edu stuff, support, docs... I could keep going!
<nubae> so we will take upstream docs and put them back in
<nubae> but seperate
<LaserJock> the thing is, LTSP is a lot more general than education
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> although Edubuntu is the major "consumer" of LTSP
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, well, we will use it for education.
<nixternal> it is good providing ltsp on the alt cd for ubuntu, that way there you can set it up from the get go and easily have any DE you want, which was pretty nice to play around with when rewriting the book chapter
<LaserJock> but it's really server technology
<cbx33> cool
<Svenstaro> If LTSP worked correctly, it would own. Especially on a live medium.
<LaserJock> and so it makes sense to have the server guys more involved with it
<nubae> most people will, but the docs need to be kind of seperated, or else we'll go crazy
 * nixternal kicks cbx33 in the shin, quit ignoring me! :p
<cbx33> nixternal: hey dude
<Lns> Svenstaro, worked coorectly?
<cbx33> when did I ignore you?
<nixternal> this past 10 minutes :p
<HedgeMage> cbx33: Good, overall, just kind of madenning.  Incorporated the business, have a board to deal with now.  Hired someone who didn't work out, fired him this week, working on getting all the work under control, hired two new people, getting them started and trained and such, LF is doing great in school and we are picking out his summer activities, so on and so forth.
<cbx33> ahhh i see you
<nixternal> though I said Pete, dunno if you got highlighted on that
<cbx33> I was bathing the little one
<Svenstaro> Also, to be honest, a handbook is unnecessary overhead and leads to confusion if other docs are more recent. There should be one single source of information, a well done wiki.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: so then, is there really a need for an edubuntu brand and install cd?
<cbx33> cool HedgeMage
<LaserJock> pwnguin: certainly
<cbx33> nixternal: no only cbx33 gains my attention
<HedgeMage> Svenstaro: You will *never* get me to contribute to a wiki.
<nixternal> gotcha
<Svenstaro> HedgeMage, why not?
<nixternal> HedgeMage: hire me! I am looking for work :)
<alkisg> pwnguin: I think LTSP will *be* in the edubuntu dvd, it's just the docs that'll get seperated
<LaserJock> I think there is a use for different documentation media
<HedgeMage> Svenstaro: Because I refuse to use wiki markup.  I know a number of decent forms of markup, but wikispeak is maddening... how many ' are bold and how many are italic or bold italic?  It's irritating.
<Svenstaro> There should be a section on the wiki that regularly gets PDF'd into a handbook.
<LaserJock> alkisg: but I think it will be maintained by the server team
<HedgeMage> nixternal: send me a resume, I will be hiring again at the end of the summer.
<alkisg> LaserJock: sure, we'll just use it because we need it in education
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> well
<nixternal> '' == ital, ''' == bold, and ''''' == bold ital :p
<nixternal> i think
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> see, even you aren't sure!
<LaserJock> does anybody feel any less confused about what Edubuntu is and where it's heading?
<nubae> just cause we include it on the dvd/cdrom/usb does not mean we are responsible for it
<HedgeMage> <strong> and <em> is so much smarter, or <warning> etc if you go WYSIWYM ;)
<nubae> thats something we should make clear... we will help those users though
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> in fact most of the people talking are somehow involved with LTSP
<LaserJock> certainly supporting LTSP in educational environments would be in the scope of Edubuntu
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I know what I think it should be and where I think it should head... no idea what's happened in the two years or so I've been out of the loop, though.
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, not too much, to be honest. We haven't really decided on anything. Set up votes or something and work down bullet points of decisions.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I know I'm not any more clear
<LaserJock> :-)
<HedgeMage> We don't want to build a camel, though.
<HedgeMage> brb
<nubae> u were clear before?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> the biggest point of this meeting was to get people together
<pwnguin> pardon my question, if im interrupting a meeting that's time starved: Is edubuntu k12 specific?
<Lns> LaserJock, Edubuntu = Ubuntu + Education
<nubae> well then, now if we decide it'll be an image including the addon stuff, that should be pretty clear no?
<LaserJock> I seriously doubt an IRC meeting is going to clear everything up
<Lns> the last 10 haven't.. ;)
<Svenstaro> I guess I'll just build my vision of a distro now and merge back with whatever you guys came up with. I'm not really sure what else to do.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well, depends
<LaserJock> pwnguin: I think no
<pygi> Svenstaro: patience
<nubae> Lns: great point... thats ll it needs to be
<pygi> wait for tomorrow's mail please
<Lns> nubae, seriously
<nubae> yep
<Lns> if different people want different things, let them work on it!
<nubae> right
<Lns> we're all ubuntu + education.
<LaserJock> well, I don't think whether it's a distro or an addon changes much of anything
<Lns> the more people with more ideas the better.
<nubae> righto... now I need a cigarette :p
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, it does. It's a way of thinking about a product.
<pwnguin> At the moment, my role is a system administrator for a Community College. i know many college computer labs like the idea of ltsp, but as you said, it's not just education that wants ltsp. one thing that's becoming very useful is Moodle
<Svenstaro> By-product vs full product, LaserJock
<HedgeMage> pwnguin: I'd say it's not k12 only, but we certainly pay extra attention to those levels because they need the most help
<nubae> LaserJock: not technically, but from public perspective its huge
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: but we still have most of the same things to do
<nubae> liek Svenstaro says
<alkisg> LaserJock: I know of a lot of people that left edubuntu because it wasn't a distro anymore, so I think it changes things...
<LaserJock> ok, here's my bottom line
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter whether it's a distro or an addon if the stuff you ship is crap
<nubae> alkisg:  right
<LaserJock> and that's my concern
<LaserJock> we are an absolute *mess*
<nubae> well, obviously we are gonna do QA
<alkisg> We're not responsible about the stuff quality. Only for _selecting_ the stuff.
<nubae> whoever wants to work on that can
<nubae> the point is to get people working
<LaserJock> and I really don't think it's gonna matter on the points if we're 2 media or 1 media install
<nubae> and get them working now
<pwnguin> anyone who selects crap isn't doing a good job
<nubae> code first...
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: I would encourage you to work with Edubuntu and not fork off
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: lets' work on a common vision, I think we can do it
<pwnguin> my theory is if you like the package, take up a maintainer role
<LaserJock> alkisg: no, we are in charge of the quality
<HedgeMage> alkisg: I disagree, to a point.  We'll have more direct interface opportunities with schools, and we need to push what we learn upstream, as well and encourage the development needed to fill the gaps in what's available.
<nubae> we won't be putting in shinny things... we'll put in working code first
<pwnguin> subscribe to the upstream mailing list, subscribe to the LP bug reports, triage bugs, report and try to make sure the thing works
<nubae> yeah we do need some QA
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, then I want decisions :/ Talking really doesn't solve too much. Or put me in cahrge of working out how to get decisions or something.
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: we need and I believe will make decisions
 * Lns thinks we should remember what sbalneav said yesterday
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: May I pm you please?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: I think everybody needs to kinda get everything out first
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: of coruse
<alkisg> HedgeMage: When I right-click on firefox with LTSP there's a 5 seconds delay. I'll report this to LTSP and xcb and that's that. I don't think I'm responsible to fix it, that's what I'm saying.
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, oh well :/
<pwnguin> putting a package in a metapackage without anyone making a committment to quality is a recipe for upset users
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: oh well what? I think you have a great opportunity here to get your vision implemented
<HedgeMage> alkisg: Right, but if a school says "we have this problem", we should help them figure out enough to see that it is reported properly, and that we are communicating to upstream projects what problems most impact schools.
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: decisions need to be made but I don't think we can make them just this second
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, oh well as in 'I agree' but as I'm eager to actually stat wokring on something that's kind of putting me off.
<LaserJock> it takes some thought and investigation for a lot of these
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, what would you like to work on right now?
<Svenstaro> Sometimes, its just better to experiment and discard bad experiments.
<LaserJock> I can perhaps direct you
<LaserJock> I agree
<LaserJock> I just want us to experiment together
 * bencrisford1 is anxious to get started on some marketing material
<Svenstaro> I'd like to work on a topdown approach and structure information so we can at least see where stuff is lacking. I see 3 major points: distribution medium, applications, documentation
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: ok, so let's work on those
<Lns> +1 Svenstaro
<LaserJock> I can give you *lots* of info on where Edubuntu is lacking :-)
<LaserJock> I've been working on this for a couple years now
<LaserJock> I can tell you specific things that need to be done
 * Lns kicks LaserJock for not being supportive of his own project ;)
<LaserJock> but when I've done that in the past I've not got a ton of response from people
<bencrisford1> can anyone direct me to the channel logs?  because i missed the last bit of the meeting because of my internet
<LaserJock> so I hope the energy here is matched with some action
<pwnguin> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/22/%23edubuntu.html
<bencrisford1> thanks pwnguin
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, I promise you it is. I've refurbished another distro in the past because I was unhappy about the results of the original creators.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so
<LaserJock> moving forward
<LaserJock> I want to see lots of emails on the list
<Svenstaro> I propose I work on a timeline diagram (is there such a thing?) that defines when what kind of work is going to be done and have that signed off by everyone who is willing to contribute.
<Svenstaro> I love seeing the big picture so I might as well create it.
<Svenstaro> That is, if you don't already have something like that.
<HedgeMage> Pardon if I missed it with my late entry... were there introductions?  I don't know who half the people here are, or their interests and skill sets.
<LaserJock> well
<HedgeMage> Could we take a step back and figure out who/what we have to work with?
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, we had an intro at the beginning (about 2 hr ago)
<HedgeMage> :o
 * HedgeMage scrolls back
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, what kind of timeline are you thinking?
<Lns> LaserJock, so how about those teams, eh?
<LaserJock> we need to figure out what we're going to do for Karmic
<LaserJock> that is of primary importance
<LaserJock> I'm not sure we could get a DVD/USB image done in 1 release
<LaserJock> at least official
<Lns> LaserJock, why not let the ppl who want to do that worry about it?
<alkisg> I agree. I'm thinking of an unofficial... yeap, that.
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, kind of like my diagram from earlier but on a timeline, rather.
<pwnguin> do we have any evidence school districts need/want dvds and usb images?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro:  so what kind of time parameters are you going to use?
<alkisg> pwnguin: in my area (Greece), yes
<pwnguin> at least in the affluent area where i live, schools use norton ghost
<LaserJock> well
<alkisg> norton ghost? with linux?
<Lns> norton gross =p
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, because obviously we dont want to create documentation for a distribution that doesn't really exist. So we should do stuff in order to channel our almighty powers of creation to stuff that makes sense.
<pwnguin> an ubuntu cd that IT can customize via a metapackage might be sufficient or even preferred
<LaserJock> I've been contacted by a number of people who just want a single installation disk, be it USB, DVD, or CD
<Lns> https://launchpad.net/people/?name=edubuntu&searchfor=all
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, what do you mean by time parameters? I mean a rough schedule that doesn't really reflect weeks or months but rather task after task in parallel.
<LaserJock> ok
<Svenstaro> the last part of my sentence was self-contradicting.
<Svenstaro> I mean having multiple teams work on different things that need work at that point of time.
<Svenstaro> That is, if nobody has a better idea of creating a "big picture".
<pwnguin> probably, what edubuntu needs is critical mass. there's a dozen teams with their own mailing list
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: ok, sounds good
<pwnguin> i think consolidation has been suggested.
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: send a draft to the mailing list and we can have a log
<Svenstaro> Alright
<pwnguin> i take that back; it looks like most teams don't have a list
<LaserJock> *look
<Svenstaro> I think it would be appreciated if more people are just decided instead of suggested, as has been answered to me on the mailing list.
<nubae> pwnguin: yes we do have evidence schools want usb sticks with edubuntu on them
<pwnguin> nubae: any idea why?
<LaserJock> to install stuff I'm guessing ;-)
<pwnguin> im guessing to run live without overwriting the windows image
<alkisg> pwnguin: because it takes hours from an installed ubuntu to reach an "educational" installation.
<alkisg> ...and also the live stuff.
<alkisg> LaserJock: is there any problem if we include multiverse apps on the dvd?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we could perhaps do Universe but I doubt we could do Multiverse
<pwnguin> it depends on the app
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is still about free software ;-)
<alkisg> What about FOSS apps not in debian?
<pwnguin> MOTU and debian both have processes for that
<alkisg> OK, I get it.
<pwnguin> karmic's far enough off that you can get that accomplished i'd think
<LaserJock> alkisg: we can package stuff up for sure
 * bencrisford1 is about to mail the list about the students idea
<bencrisford1> then ill talk to the students team
<nubae> welll thats where packaging comes in
<LaserJock> I'd like to finalized the strategy doc
<LaserJock> I think that will help us all get on the same page
<LaserJock> and will give the community some clarity and focus
<LaserJock> the current draft is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<Lns> "The first objective Edubuntu has is to bring a education focus to Ubuntu."
<Lns> hmm.
<nubae1> (22:10:58) Nubae: welll thats where packaging comes in
<nubae1> (22:11:31) Nubae: if there is an edu app that needs to be packaged we do it for universe first, then we give a reason y it should be properly supported by main
<nubae1> (22:12:10) Nubae: and I think the reasons for having a live distro are pretty self evident
<nubae1> (22:12:20) Nubae: and there are many reasons for it, not just one
<nubae1> (22:12:55) Nubae: for example... having an image that was a fat image that could also be distributed via ltsp would be a usage case scenario
 * Lns slaps nubae1 with a large trout
<Lns> How about... "The first objective Edubuntu has is to bring Ubuntu focus to education."
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Can anyone add to that?
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> add to what?
<LaserJock> how about this
<LaserJock> I would like people to email the list with comments on it
<nubae> if anything it would be an education focus, not a education focus :p
<LaserJock> I'd rather people not just randomly edit it right now
<nubae> comments on what?
<nubae> the website?
<LaserJock> the strategy doc
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<pwnguin> well i hope someone randomly fixes the markup on focus 1
<LaserJock> I need to get back to my disseration
<LaserJock> pwnguin: yeah, I noticed that, I'll fix it
<LaserJock> if people have minor edits I don't mind
<LaserJock> I just put a lot of thought and time into it so I'd rather people not make major changes without discussing it first
<Lns> I think we need to start over from scratch.. :)
<Lns> oh
<Lns> nm then =p
<jt4sugar> If you start at student desktop and decide what you want happening there and map-backward from that point through teacher through school you should have pretty good idea of what is needed-Visually Mapping it would be helpful
<LaserJock> well, you could all start from scratch
<Svenstaro> I'll probably be shouted at but can anybody explain to me why sugar is so important for us now?
<LaserJock> but I thought my draft wasn't *that* bad
<pwnguin> Svenstaro: i also thought it was strange that sugar was the only focus fleshed out
<Lns> LaserJock, no it's not at all
<Lns> sorry..i'll leave it to my list post :)
<cbx33> looks good LaserJock
<LaserJock> well, the Sugar thing was because we were working on how to view Sugar
<LaserJock> it doesn't mean it's the most important or anthing
<LaserJock> just the latest one we were trying to work on
<Svenstaro> Still, somebody explain to me what advantages would sugar have for us.
<alkisg> Svenstaro: nubae, like me and you are interested in edubuntu=distro in a live dvd. I care about the easy ltsp installation stuff, nubae cares about the sugar stuff. Edubuntu will have modules or roles, so sugar will be a module nubae will work on. I don't see a problem there...
<Svenstaro> It's just a WM and a simplistic desktop, isn't it?
<LaserJock> well, it's fairly big in Educational circles
<LaserJock> and there is some momentum
<pwnguin> Svenstaro: i imagine it's intended to be a UI for young children
<LaserJock> yeah
<Svenstaro> But won't it cripple the workspace for more complex use cases?
<pwnguin> only if installed by default
<Svenstaro> Ah I see, so its optional.
<pwnguin> i didnt say that
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> there is nothing simplistic about sugar
<Svenstaro> So I think that forms a decision to make a dsitro building service.
<nubae> its actually probably the most advanced WM out right now
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: it would be login option at most I believe
<nubae> well, with an icon on the desktop
<LaserJock> it might depend on the age level selected
<nubae> which would launch sugar-emulator
<nubae> but indeed it is not at all the only option
<nubae> one will be able to launch individual activities from sugar too
<Svenstaro> How does LTSP work together with sugar?
<nubae> to take advantage of collaboration
<nubae> Svenstaro: just fine
<Svenstaro> Nice to hear
<nubae> if u read my blog u'll see my proof of concept
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: it's basically just another desktop environment
<LaserJock> one that is tied pretty tightly to education for a lot of people
<nubae> but it has unique features making it very nice for kids
<Svenstaro> I approve then :P
<nubae> it is the OS running on the one laptop per child xos
<nubae> used by 1 million+
<nubae> so its not a project that is about to die
<pwnguin> OLPC or sugar?
<nubae> and yeah, since I am probably very sugar-centric I'll probably help with the packaging
<nubae> sugar is used by more than a million users who have xos
<nubae> so the non xo usage is probably big too, but right now biggest exposure is in developing nations
<LaserJock> ok, time for me to duck out
<cbx33> ty LaserJock
<LaserJock> I will send out meeting minutes
<LaserJock> sometime in the next day or so I'd guess
<alkisg> Thanks LaserJock :)
<nubae> cool
<pwnguin> wikipedia says the XO can dual boot windows; i wonder how many schools take the hardware and install windows on them
<nestor> well, guys, I'm here again
<class1> anybody have this afternoon meeting minutes?
<nestor> no, I don't. sorry. I'm quite busy
<pwnguin> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/22/%23edubuntu.html
<pwnguin> thats the raw logs
<class1> hiya pwnguin
<pwnguin> i dont think there was any votes
<nestor> I must leave, good luck!
<class1> didn't see you in the list
<pwnguin> well, i thought i'd see what the project's up to
<kjcole> I gather I interrupted a meeting earlier.  Meeting over?
<pwnguin> i guess further discussion can be tabled / posted to edubuntu-devel
<jt4sugar>  Check out http://tutorius.org/ if running Sugar can use this tool that allows Teachers to create Tutorials
<pwnguin> ouch
<pwnguin> "Even though Sugar isnât the official operating system running on the XO (OLPC laptop) anymore,"
<LaserJock> pwnguin: thanks for dropping by
<LaserJock> kjcole: yeah, 2hrs was enough
<pwnguin> LaserJock: go earn your phd
<kjcole> So, I'll re-ask (or re-inform depending on your interpretation):
<kjcole> Anyone here going to NECC (National Educational Computing Conference) here in DC, June 28 - July 1?
<pwnguin> that would require travel budgets
 * Svenstaro is no wiser now
<pwnguin> well, i got a better picture
<pwnguin> I was curious if there'd be anyone here looking at Moodle migration, after Blackboard announced their next competitor acquisition
<pwnguin> looks like no; probably people in that situation aren't aware of projects like edubuntu
<jt4sugar> Thanks for the opportunity to learn!
<nubae> pwnguin: I work with moodle quite a lot
<nubae> and suggested edubuntu get its own moodle instance, but it was rejected... we are doing that in opensuse though
<nubae> basically moving everything edu to their moodle instance
<pwnguin> when was it rejected?
<nubae> a couple months ago
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> someone ponied up the money for a moodle server
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-learning is in the process of setting it up and creating courseware
<nubae> oh, wow, see I didn't even know that :-)
<nubae> but guess that would be to help in packaging and stuff
<pwnguin> pleia2 put it on the meeting agenda...
<pwnguin> at the moment, i think it's wide open
<pwnguin> some people want to create packaging and server admin courses
<pwnguin> but its open to other projects I believe
<pwnguin> nubae: I blogged about this on the planet, but a lot of people are thinking that open source is the only way to avoid blackboard's terrible customer service
<pwnguin> hopefully ubuntu-learning will be a good dogfood project
<class1> pwngwen, use norton because that's what they want?  won't clonezilla do cloning via the network?
<class1> fwiw, they did fix the shutdown issue
<pwnguin> they very well may use something else
<pwnguin> but the point is they're big on imaging
<pwnguin> i know our labs are
<alkisg> fog-project ftw :)
<class1> fwiw, i have 3 children and two mothers in the lab currently using ltsp lab
<class1> hrm, that might be better option than ltsp
<class1> manage one and image thousands
<pwnguin> windows has a concept called sysprep
<alkisg> Linux has no need for sysprep :)
<pwnguin> im not sure that's true
<pwnguin> hostnames are still hostnames
<class1> any suggestions for kid's games/softare for ages 6 - 12 that i can aptitude install ?
<alkisg> I've seen sysprep'ed images fail if put on different hardware
<alkisg> ...and linux cp'ed partitions booting just fine
<pwnguin> anything you want unique per box needs some syspreppy thing
<pwnguin> class1: sgt-puzzles?
<class1> i'm getting ready to upgrade ltsp clients.  the lab has exactly 7 more days before i make a decision to pull it or leave it
<pwnguin> class1: you've seen debian jr?
<class1> nope
<class1> i'll take a look at it though
<class1> does ltsp ?
<class1> or would i need to image
<pwnguin> i donno about that
<pwnguin> but all their packages are in ubuntu
<pwnguin> junior-
<class1> how good is iTalc?  when i attempted to use it, i only saw one screen, the screen i was sitting at.  isn't it supposed to be a session managment  tool ?
<pwnguin> probably shouldn't ask me
<pwnguin> i work for a community college
<class1> yes, i know :)
<nubae> ltsp is extremely powerful and complex, dont expect to learn it in one day
<nubae> nice post Lns
<class1> nubae: ?
<nubae> anyway, iTalc works just fine
<Lns> thx nubae
<nubae> u just need to know what u're doing
<class1> like click on the icon and see the attached working clients?
<nubae> no, like put in the ip of the client, and in the case of ltsp, its more complex, search the net for help
<nubae> its there
<class1> no way to load the client's as they are logged in or upon boot?
<class1> i would have assumed that if you were sitting at the server and had iTalc installed, in edubuntu or ubuntu-ltsp it would be tied into the system
<class1> and client that was on would be auto attached to the system
<nubae> it is tied into the system, but u still need to tell it what client to look at
<class1> nubae: so ur telling me that the teacher/instructor needs to know the ip address of each client?
<nubae> anyway like I said, the documentation is online
<alkisg> class1: version?
<alkisg> In 9.04 it has autodetection
<class1> alkisg: version for ?
<class1> ah, ok
<class1> i'm on 9.04
<alkisg> So it should autodetect all clients
<class1> but considering going back to 8.10 cause i've got clients crashing
<class1> when using firefox
<nubae> in any case, u should look at the documentation it explains it all much better than we ever could
<nubae> well why not switch to firefox2 then, or opera, or do local apps for firefox
<class1> nubae: seriously, if a third grade teacher has access to iTalc, or the yearbook instructor, you really don't expect them to know and input ip address to view clients with iTalc do you?
<Lns> doesn't italc have names you can assign to each system?
<class1> let's go one step further, the librarian, where it might most used at
<class1> maybe i'm confused on iTalc.  it thought it was a way to monitor clients
<alkisg> class1: it is. It has autodetection. Are you not seeing the clients automatically in 9.04?
<class1> i've not installed it in 9.04.  i'll try it now
<alkisg> Do you have 8.10 now?
<Ahmuck_> no, i did a dist upgrade to 9.04
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: you're class1?
<Lns> lol
<Ahmuck_> yes, i'm moving between classes
<Ahmuck_> watching and listening to use.  evaluating
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: ? would it matter who i was?
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: no, but I asked class1 and Ahmuck answered, so I was confused.
<Ahmuck_> :)
<Ahmuck_> http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=First_steps - empty
<Ahmuck_> i'd agree with Svenstaro on a wiki
<Svenstaro> huh wah who highlights me?
<Svenstaro> what context?
<Ahmuck_> wiki is community documentation.  which can be hosted anywhere
<nubae> class1: LTSP is not a trivial system, its complex and extremely powerful, it takes time to understand it, and probably many years to master it
<Ahmuck_> and good sources of documentation are hard to find
<Ahmuck_> nubae: :) that's why windows is so popular
<nubae> LTSP is not for everyone, its for the experienced linux/unix sysadmin
<nubae> yup
<nubae> but thin client systems on windows are no easier
<Svenstaro> Yes, lets make LTSP feasible for schools.
<nubae> where they do exist, they are even more complex than LTSP and each one has its own standards
<Svenstaro> If it breaks, oh well, but we can at least make it easy to configure.
<nubae> the thing here is, u cant expect LTSP to be managed by a non-sysadmin, its just unrealistic
<nubae> Lns is a good example... he administers numerous schools with LTSP
<nubae> but has on site guys who do the day to day
<Svenstaro> nubae, are you quite sure? Some wizards are quite amazing :)
<nubae> u said the magic words there (no pun intended)
<nubae> some wizards
<nubae> the problem is not in ease of installation... with ubuntu, its hit F4 on startup and u have a fully functioning LTSP lab at your disposal
<Lns> Svenstaro, nubae: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TCM-NG
<nubae> its where u go from there
<nubae> ah is that what u've been working on Lns?
<Lns> yup
<Ahmuck_> u'll never get edubuntu ltsp in my area unless ur willing to bring management utilities to the platform and some additional things as well.  our entire area is microsoft and it's held by larger companies supplying the schools.  if you want linux and oss in the schools you need to show something that works, and works on the instructor level, not the admin level.  our local school district has...
<Ahmuck_> ...a non-technician coming in 10 hours a week to do tech work.  it's what's in the budget
<nubae> reminds me of star trek... The next generation
<nubae> hehe
<Lns> ha!
<Lns> call me picard then, haha
<nubae> Aye Captain
<nubae> engage
<Lns> =p
<nubae> heh, but then u need to rename ure app to: Next Generation
<Ahmuck_> Lns, if you were in a car accident tomorrow is there enough linux personal in the area to pick up your clients?
<nubae> I highly doubt it
<Lns> nope
<nubae> but thats the whole point
<Lns> which is why i'm in a very good position :)
<nubae> if there were, he wouldnt have those jobs
<nubae> right
<Lns> nubae, that's not true, i'd still be the best =)
<nubae> its like people that know how to code in fortran
<Ahmuck_> so, as a school administrator/board why in the world would i want to put ltsp in my school if you are my only contact for support
<nubae> they're not that many but those that do exist, get paid well for that knowledge
<Ahmuck_> if it breaks and your gone then what?
<nubae> because its that good
<nubae> and saves u that much money
<Lns> Ahmuck_, community support often rivals paid support
<nubae> its all about TCOS
<Ahmuck_> nubae: it saves me no money if i have to fly someone in from kansas city to fix it
<nubae> and who said u have to do that?
<Lns> Ahmuck_, you're forgetting that things break much less in these setups
<nubae> and remote assistance is quite easy with ltsp setups
<nubae> less hardware to break
<nubae> and if it does break, they can just put another machine in its place and be off again
<nubae> cant do that in normal scenario
<nubae> even if server breaks, switch hard drives and continue
<nubae> its redundancy can be set up so u really are very very safe
<nubae> much safer than any windows setup ever
<nubae> In the setups I manage, I usually have 2 hard disks, one of which is a dd of the other
<Lns> with my 9 setups i rarely have any big issues, after 3 years. Can't remember the last time a whole lab went down
<nubae> cron'd per day
<nubae> that way, if the server/hard drive dies, its a max of 24 hours of lost material
<Ahmuck_> nubae: why not linux software raid?
<nubae> not really needed in my experience, prefer to use the drive as a direct backup
<Ahmuck_> with linux software raid you wouldn't loose 24 hours would you?
<nubae> so they can pull out the damaged one, and put in the backup and continue working like nothing happened, send me or give me the broken one
<Lns> you can also mount dd images and extract files
<nubae> it depends on how u set it up... u can of course set up a cron job to dd the drive every couple minutes if u really wanted to
<Lns> or in nubae's case simply plug it in
<nubae> right
<Lns> nubae, dd would take more than a couple mins on anything bigger than a floppy disk ;)
<nubae> I tell them to do dds to dvds too, and take that out the building, in case of fire or whatever
<nubae> Lns: tru dat :D but u know what I mean
<Lns> yup
 * nubae slaps Lns... nitpicker
<Lns> hey when you have nothing else to argue about.. =p
<isforinsects> What time is that meeting anyway?
<isforinsects> 1800 utc?
<nubae> anyway, I offered to take over Lns clients if he ever gets hit by a truck
<nubae> hehe
<nubae> isforinsects: u missed it
<isforinsects> ? :-(
<isforinsects> sad panda
<nubae> bad panda
<isforinsects> I have the scrollback
<nubae> ;-)
<isforinsects> I was told 1800 utc, which is ... 1300 my time
<nubae> we spoke briefly about sugar
<isforinsects> right... I went the wrong way with thta math
<nubae> hehe
<nubae> basically it boils down to someone whose passionate enough about it to do it. I have this terrible feeling that might be me
<nubae> but I wont be able to work on it until after I'm done with the Suse work...
<Lns> nubae, =)
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: installed.  as clients come on, should i be seeing them in the window?
<alkisg> ÎÎ¿
<alkisg> You'll have to restart italc to see the new clients
<alkisg> (or declare them all in a static file so you'll see them when they come on)
<Ahmuck_> only clients logging on are shown ?
<Ahmuck_> so i assume that a static file is used for remote login/poweron
<Ahmuck_> Lns: do you hardset your ip address for your clients?
<alkisg> Ahmuck_: to see clients before logon, you need to install it to the chroot.
<Lns> Ahmuck_, no, everything is just dhcp for me. i don't use italc though
<Ahmuck_> classroom --> autodetected computers does what?
<alkisg> Displays autodetected clients
<alkisg> (already logged on)
<Ahmuck_> alkisg: i'm seeing two now.  after restart
<alkisg> There's a wiki page for italc on ltsp.
<pygi> is italc that weird win-like software?
<Lns> heh, pygi that's what i thought too.. qt looks lots like windows
<pygi> Lns: its not the qt that look like windows
<pygi> I like qt in fact
<pygi> its just the italc interface
<Lns> well it is cross platform
<nubae> yeah does look windowsy, maybe because theres a windows version too?
<pygi> oh well
<pygi> nubae: pidgin also has a win version, yet its the same as linux one
<Lns> afaik italc isn't even being developed anymore
<pygi> Lns: heh, really?
<pygi> the we have no sane tool to use
<pygi> (Not that italc was sane, but it was the closest to a working tool)
<Lns> not saying it doesn't work
<pygi> Lns: I know, but we can't shop something that isn't maintained
<Lns> but i think the guy i'm working with to get tcm-ng looked into italc, he said the last commit was ~2007
<Lns> that's how i feel too..that's why i wanted to make something better =)
<nubae> last I checked the messaging from and to thin clients was done some time last year
<nubae> towards the end
<nubae> so think its still active
<pygi> TCM-NG is in what language, and why did you make it look like italic? o.O
<pygi> (sorry for being a bit harsh, but italics gui is really useless)
<Lns> pygi, python and..huh?
<Lns> we don't even have an interface for it yet =)
<pygi> Lns: bleh xD
<pygi> I misread your sentence
<pygi> sorry xD
<Lns> haha
<pygi> I might see what's up with the code, is it any good :)
<pygi> if you remind me next week
<Lns> i dunno, ianap :) i'm contracting someone out to bring my "vision" to life ;)
<pygi> Lns: tcm-ng seems to have 4 revisions, all by Pete? :p
<Lns> pygi, no that was the older tcm
<Lns> all we've done is put up a bzr
<pygi> Lns: please be kind to link me up? :)
<pygi> ah, so its empty? :)
<Lns> the code is being reviewed
<pygi> oki
<pygi> tell me once its ready pls
<Lns> it's far from anything useful at this point
<Lns> lol
<Lns> ok..will do.
<pygi> (not for production, for reading code and being a critic :P)
<Lns> sure
<Lns> I'm sure we'll be announcing stuff hopefully sometime soon
<Lns> if you're interested in keeping up, we have an #lns channel that we're collaborating on. I'm setting up a logbot right now
<pygi> Lns: I am interested, but sadly you'll have to keep me updated
<pygi> too much work going on in various areas to track one more :-/
<Lns> it's ok, if its not a priority to you then its not to me that you are ;)
<Ahmuck_> Lns: ur intent is to replace italc with something?
<Lns> Ahmuck_, no, not really, although some functionality might overlap
<Lns> tcm-ng aims to be ltsp specific
<Ahmuck_> is it gpl ?
<Lns> yup
<Lns> of course!
<pygi> GPL2 or 3? or 2 and later? :)
<Ahmuck_> i'm interested in testing.  have a svn or git link ?
<pygi> Ahmuck_: they use bzr :p
<pygi> and he just told you its under consideration :)
<Lns> gpl3
<Ahmuck_> pygi: he's shown snapshots :)
<pygi> Ahmuck_: photoshop, don't trust him :p
 * pygi hides
<Lns> Ahmuck_, https://launchpad.net/tcm-ng
<Lns> i don't have screenshots.. ??
<Lns> if you saw screenies those are from the old projects
<nubae> Lns: u know I've documented how to set up eggdrop to log right?
<Ahmuck_> hrm, maybe it was someone else in here deving something up for thin client manament
<nubae> its on my website somwehere in case u need that
<Lns> nubae, i mgiht look at that..just going through eggdrop.conf right now actually
 * Ahmuck_ have to look at today's and yesterday's logs
<nubae> its a biiig config file
<Lns> yea it is
<nubae> takes a  good 15 minutes just to skim through it
<nubae> my eyes are hurting friom watching rpms scrolling by being made
<nubae> I need to get to bed.... talk to u guys tomorrow... I'm happy to see so much activity on the channel
<Lns> cool nubae, thx for all the involvement
<nubae> and to u
<nubae> even though we're still not considered edubuntu members lol
<Lns> heh
<Lns> oh well..i like being an 'outsider'
<nubae> but u're not really, u're an insider without credit :-(
<Lns> i don't want to be famous ;)
<nubae> me either, but I want to be able to have the rights to do stuff with the project
<Lns> srue
<Lns> sure*
<Lns> it'll come...patience grasshopper, haha
<nubae> nah. yah... I've got to go to bed... bye bye
<pygi> nubae: and being an edubuntu member gives you what rights more then you have now?
<Ahmuck_> hrm, don't know if it's iTalc releated ... The ISD-Server could not be started because port 5800 is alrleady in use.  Please make sure that no other application is using this port and try again.  Logged my out and logged Guest in with this message just now.
<Ahmuck_> well, ditching iTalc sounds like a good idea, though it did look like a promising piece of software for use
<Lns> Ahmuck_, i had that same issue. there are particulars in getting it to work w/ltsp
<Lns> Ahmuck_, http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment
<Ahmuck_> i'm going to save the ubuntu 9.04 ltsp vm, and may working through it step by step and see what apps and tools work, but i've decided to look for something else.  i can't see that much came out of the meeting other than the same thing that happened on the mlist a couple of weeks ago
<Ahmuck_> it's all so disorganized
<Lns> Ahmuck_, look for something else?
<Ahmuck_> nubae: u using opensuse-edu or edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2009-05-23
<Svenstaro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002896.html
<Ahmuck> Svenstaro: u here?
<Svenstaro> Ahmuck am always.
<Ahmuck_> Svenstaro: those are nice charts
<Ahmuck_> very clear and well organized
<Ahmuck_> what r u using to make them with?
<Svenstaro> Dia of course.
<Svenstaro> And thanks :)
<Ahmuck_> ah, i haven't looked at dia for a while.  i'll peek again :)
<skipjack> Hello PPl.
<skipjack> ;) I have some trouble now with pulseaudio, it's running fine and after I think ~ 20 secs it's break and no sound is playing. vlc says me: [00000562] alsa audio output error: cannot write: Input/output error
<skipjack> hello nubae
<nubae> hi skipjack
<skipjack> back ;)
<skipjack> What can I do against pulseaudio which breaks after playing some Audio file (think 20secs, then it's killed.. )
<highvoltage> INTERNETS!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hi
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you in Barcelona now?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: been struggling with my wi-fi, eventually restarting the access point got it working again
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ah
<highvoltage> LaserJock:I charged my laptop last night until it says "will last 10 minutes when unplugged", but couldn't connect to the network again after that
<highvoltage> LaserJock: just read the meeting minutes
 * nubae feels we discussed pretty much the same stuff as in the previous meeting, but got a bit further this time
<nubae> agreeing we can look into reverting to being a distro
<nubae> Thats whay u wanted too isnt it highvoltage
<nubae> ?
<highvoltage> nubae: among other things, yes
<nubae> well we just need to figure out who is doing what
<nubae> now
<highvoltage> nubae: I do feel good about the renweed enthusiasm in Edubuntu
<nubae> I wont have much time to concentrate on edubuntu until next month though
<nubae> yeah me too, it really does seem like there was an influx of new folks wanting to do something
<nubae> time will tell if they follow through or not
<highvoltage> nubae: I think we need to assertain quite fast what the technical challenges will be around an edubuntu distro, and figure out whether we're going full-distro in 9.10 or 10.04(LTS)
<nubae> well I think it makes more sense to concentrate on just LTSes for an edu distro
<nubae> since schools dont want to upgrade all the time
<highvoltage> nubae: it's all very nice wanting a full distro, but we absolutely need enough people to commit to make that happen, from my side I can commit to test each alhpa and beta and the release candidate builds, but probably not so much daily builds and all the other inbetweens
<highvoltage> nubae: *nod*
<nubae> that way we can move with the ubuntu LTSes, but still addon software when and where... I believe we shouldn't be limited by a 6 month release cycle
<highvoltage> nubae: perhaps one of edubuntu's tasks shouls also be to backport edu stuff to LTS
<highvoltage> nubae: *nod*
<nubae> yeah.... so we start by being in alpha for a couple of months, 6 months even, then beta for 3 months and then we go RC 1 month before release, something like that
<highvoltage> well, we can't be alpha for a release that doesn't exist yet
<highvoltage> ie, we can't go in an alpha for LTS when work on the LTS hasn't started yet
<highvoltage> although we can start working on the stuff for the next release
<nubae> From my end, I've already researched a bunch of nice universe software that we can put in... so it needs further testing.... then we have the server parts of the iso (LAMP, moodle, mahara, koha, etc), Sugar platform, kde 4 platform, gnome platform, and then LTSP and other forms of mass deployment
<nubae> well... our alpha can be 9.10
<highvoltage> nubae: awesome
<highvoltage> nubae: well we have to release *something* for 9.10 :)
<nubae> so throughout 9.10 we are just testing, we never release anything...
<highvoltage> hmm, I don't think that's a good idea
<nubae> well, then it will be another addon I guess
<highvoltage> even if it's just an add-on it would be better than releasing nothing
<nubae> the addon is not going away
<nubae> is what I mean
<highvoltage> ok cool
<nubae> in fact thats a good way
<nubae> so for regular releases we just release an addon cd
<nubae> and for LTSes we relase an iso
<nubae> how about that?
<highvoltage> that sounds good
<nubae> that way we are still always progerssing, but during non LTSes we release maybe incremental updates to the iso... like .1, .2, .3
<nubae> like we have for ubuntu LTS releases, but also an add on cd that is created and re-considered every 6 months
<nubae> think it makes it easier to maintain
<nubae> like u said, we dont have the people to go with the 6 month release cycle all the time, but since gnome and sugar and kde all have 6 month release cycles, at least we can release updates via 9.10.1, etc
<alkisg> Can many DE's be installed from the same live dvd?
<nubae> sure
<alkisg> Which distro does that?
<nubae> opensuse for one
<alkisg> It uses the same dvd? Not different ones?
<nubae> fedora does too I believe
<nubae> same dvd
<nubae> but only one version is live I guess
<alkisg> Hmmm we should look into casper...
<nubae> or ?... now u've got me questioning... I know opensuse-edu is both gnome and sugar at least
<nubae> and some other window manager too if I recall correctly
<nubae> but u're given the option to install kde
<alkisg> OK we'll read about casper to see what's supported and what not
<nubae> the main thing is, we have to figure out how to sync with the various teams, since our content will have a lot of overlap
<nubae> for example, we'll overlap with studio with the art, sound, and video stuff
<nubae> we'll overlap with server with LTSP, LAMP and moodle
<nubae> we'll overlap with regular ubuntu for our live image
<nubae> and xubuntu and kubuntu for kde and xfce
<nubae> so... we just have to figure out how to handle all that
<nubae> after all we are building a lateral product
<alkisg> OK, I'm just worried that a live dvd is very very different than an add-on
<nubae> mint is a distro that does that kind of
<nubae> we could talk to them
<nubae> alkisg: it is :-)
<nubae> :d
<nubae> though it is really just live dvd +addon
<nubae> to begin with at least
<nubae> we'll probably just have a casper system + the addon
<nubae> then decide whats of most importance to add... which will probably be LTSP and Lamp
<nubae> then build from there, like lego
<alkisg> I hope Svenstaro has some time to look at the installer stuff, I won't have time for it for another month.
<alkisg> And we should put up a wiki with what gets in, who maintains it etc
<nubae> yep... well that part is relatively easy.... we need to worry about a roadmap really
<nubae> when/what/where
<alkisg> If the first release will be 10.04, we got a lot of time :)
<nubae> so LTS, beginning with addoncd+live (that could be released for 9.10 maybe)
<nubae> then the real product in 10.04
<nubae> yeah, but time goes fast man
<nubae> don't understimate how fast we'll be sitting here going ok, so that was release day
<alkisg> Addon cd + live? I thought "just" addon cd for non-lts releases...
<nubae> well, the live part is still of great benefit
<nubae> as users can then use the product right away
<alkisg> So why an add-on then, and not just the live part?
<nubae> and there isn't that much difference between live+addon and addon work wise
<nubae> well its both live and contains the addons
<pygi> oh, still singing the old same song? :-P
<nubae> call it whatever u like
<alkisg> I don't get it! So, what do we want for 9.04, a live cd and another, add-on cd? A live dvd + an addon cd? What?
<pygi> we want a working community
<alkisg> Wishful thinking...
<pygi> alkisg: heh
<nubae> ah no, just one cd
<nubae> live+addon
<nubae> just a live cd that contains the addons
<nubae> make sense?
<alkisg> Won't fit on a cd
<alkisg> So dvd...
<nubae> yeah it will, if we take out localisation
<nubae> :p
 * nubae runs....
<nubae> who needs greek on the cd anyway :p
<alkisg> Bah... even the dvd doens't have it :)
<nubae> but wasnt edubuntu one cd before?
<alkisg> Yeah, but with problems in fitting, and without addons
<alkisg> So it won't fit with the addons
<nubae> not that it matters, might as well be a dvd
<nubae> so that its an image that can be written to dvd or usb stick
<nubae> I think cd is kind of a thing of the past anyway
<nubae> I mean a school server needs to have a dvd or a usb at least right?
<alkisg> Yeah, I don't think there's any PC without a DVD drive that can run ubuntu :)
<nubae> the clients can be older, but thats where ltsp comes in
<nubae> u realise that by making the dvd come with ltsp, we are guiding users into the right way to setup a school environment too
<nubae> basically u tell them not to install it on old machines, but to use LTSP
<alkisg> LTSP is really really easy for administration - once you set it up, that is
<alkisg> ...both normal/localapps/fat clients
<nubae> yep... I think its the right way to go about it... many people might not know about LTSP but still know about using linux in schools, and now they will learn both
<nubae> yeah
<alkisg> Well... if ltsp can be demonstrated from a live dvd/usb, it'll be easier for teachers to see if they want it or not.
<nubae> indeed
<nubae> that is what kiwi-ltsp has done and it works quite well
 * LaserJock finishes reading back-scroll
<LaserJock> I think it's going to be really tough to do this
<LaserJock> I don't know how doing LTS-only is going to work
<nubae> be more specific?
<LaserJock> and right now we don't have much of a capability of choosing DEs at install-time
<nubae> well why not, where do u see the problems?
<LaserJock> the problem is that nobody else does it in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> it takes a lot of release team coordination I think
<nubae> nobody else does what?
<LaserJock> either
<LaserJock> everybody does 6-month releases
<nubae> not everybody
<LaserJock> and nobody does much choosing at install time
<nubae> or do u mean everybody within the ubuntu sphere?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> within Ubuntu
<nubae> well, then thats what makes us different ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah, but different == hard
<LaserJock> if people are going to be around and dedicated to maintaining it could work
<nubae> LTSP was/is hard
<nubae> this is easier
<LaserJock> I would disagree slightly
<LaserJock> LTSP is/was hard
<LaserJock> but changing everything around and having it work can be difficult
<nubae> its just that its been totally automated now (installation)
<nubae> that is even harder to do
<nubae> automate installation like that
<nubae> anyway, we'll just have to see what happens, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> if people follow through or not, and its not just the 3 or 4 of us again
<LaserJock> but I think we should look at feasibility
<LaserJock> like
<nubae> cause obviously if its just the 3 or 4 of us, then its not gonna happen
<alkisg> Wow! I've heard that alt+ctrl+backspace was removed from recent xorg, but I didn't know they substituted it with the "Brightness up" key :P :(
<LaserJock> sometimes you can compromise to get something that's working rather than banging your head against a wall over and over
<LaserJock> it's unlikely that much can be done with the installer
<nubae> alkisg: thank god in open suse its still there, but u have to hit it 2 times quickly
<LaserJock> perhaps the best we could do is to not use a LiveCD installer
<LaserJock> alkisg: you can turn it back on if you want
<nubae> that kind of defeats the purpose then LaserJock
<alkisg> I was just joking, my X crashed when I tried to increase the brightness... :( :(
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> nubae: I know, but I'm not sure how a LiveCD installer would work
<LaserJock> we could have a LiveCD component for demo'ing
<nubae> well other distros seem to do that easily enough
<nubae> cant be more difficult on ubuntu/debian
<LaserJock> umm, yes it can
<LaserJock> those other distros have teams of people working on the installers
<LaserJock> we'd have to either patch the heck out of ubiquity or use anaconda or whatever openSUSE is using
<LaserJock> anaconda isn't really an option
<LaserJock> so forking ubiquity might be the only way to do it if you wan installer options
<LaserJock> so it  might make more sense to pick a DE
<LaserJock> then have .debs in a pool on the DVD for installation later
<LaserJock> I don't know how you can install LTSP off of a LIveCD either
<alkisg> That's easy, it's just preinstalled like everything else :P
<LaserJock> preinstalled, but not configured
<alkisg> It should be able to run live, so everything should be automatic
<alkisg> (except for lts.conf options etc which are always manual)
<LaserJock> right, but I don't think that will exactly work without a lot of changes
<LaserJock> right now it looks at if you're running 1 nic or 2 right?
<alkisg> I've done it, it doesn't need a lot of changes
<alkisg> No, that's the alternate cd
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> but what I'm saying is we lose that
<alkisg> We won't use that
<alkisg> We'll make it work with either 1 or 2 nics, with either an existing dhcp server or not etc
<alkisg> I'll do that first, in the summer.
<LaserJock> and how will it know that?
<alkisg> Try to get an ip, if it gets one then a dhcp server is present
<alkisg> (there's an option to fake asking for an ip)
<LaserJock> ok, well if you can get it working without any configuration then it could work
<LaserJock> but it's not drop-in right now
<alkisg> I'm not worrying about that... the DE thing troubles me more
<alkisg> (I don't need multiple DEs, I'm just worried :))
<nubae> alkisg and I can do the bash stuff no problem
<nubae> thats where our strengths lie
<nubae> but we're neither of us packagers I guess
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I'm just pointing out that the LTSP you install is going to the LTSP that get built from the build machine's configuration or what's preseeded
<nubae> right, we preseed a base environment
<nubae> like other distros do
<LaserJock> so you don't get the advantage of the postinst maintainer scripts that we normally  use
<LaserJock> the multiple DE's is basically out for the foreseeable future
<alkisg> afaik, ubuiquity can run scripts on certain installation steps...
<nubae> well sugar will be in there without problems
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we can't choose DEs
 * alkisg doesn't mind about DEs
<nubae> yeah me either so much
<alkisg> A "wizard" or something to install them after installation would be more than enough....
<LaserJock> the disk space issue will be a problem
<LaserJock> it would be less of an issue if the existing addon .iso was being replaced
<LaserJock> right now Ubuntu + Addon is ~ 1GB
<alkisg> But many teachers download another Gb after that
<alkisg> From the same canonical servers...
<LaserJock> I would say that 1 GB should be a rough target
<alkisg> That would leave live ltsp out, the image is about 200Mb
<LaserJock> oh, you're putting the client chroot on there too?
<alkisg> *only* that
<alkisg> The compressed image, not the chroot
<alkisg> The chroot will be generated by uncompressing the image to save disk space
<alkisg> As a postinst action
<LaserJock> so the image is 200MB?
<alkisg> Yes
<LaserJock> geeze, that's quite a lot
<alkisg> The chroot is much bigger
<alkisg> Usually 500mb is downloaded from canonical server to build an ltsp chroot
<alkisg> So that actually saves bandwidth if half of the people using edubuntu also use ltsp
<nubae> LaserJock: the opensuse-edu dvd is 2.2 gigs
<nubae> thats about realistic
<LaserJock> well, that's quite a lot
<nubae> not really
<LaserJock> it is in terms of disk usage
<LaserJock> edubuntu takes up ~ 350MB now
<nubae> if u take a look, its still just about the minimum for schoolserver, edu apps, etc
<LaserJock> jumping from that to 2.2GB is a rather big jump
<nubae> kiwi-ltsp alone is probably a good 300 mb
<LaserJock> for the first iteration
<LaserJock> you have Ubuntu + Addon + LTSP client chroot
<LaserJock> so that would be 1.3GB
<LaserJock> do you guys know how to work with seed and ubiquity at all?
<LaserJock> *seeds
 * alkisg doesn't
<alkisg> I've only played with debconf one afternoon
<alkisg> And packaged some apps of mine and uploaded them to my PPA.. and that's about all I've done with installers and packaging
<LaserJock> debconf is no fun :-)
<alkisg> But I've experiense in NSIS (windows installer) :P
<LaserJock> you can get the edubuntu seeds by: bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic/
<LaserJock> the .iso is created by ubuntu-cdimage which uses debian-cd, you can get bzr branches of those as well
<LaserJock> bzr branch http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/debian-cd/ubuntu/
<LaserJock> bzr branch lp:~cjwatson/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline/
<alkisg> Both me and nubae will have time to start with edubuntu a month from now... So I think it would be a good idea if Svenstaro tried to get familiar with the building process..
<nubae> btw cyberorg tells me that opensuse build service can generate src debs and debs
<nubae> so we can use that to get the sugar packages
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> I'd have to check out the src package
<nubae> he says that it uses debian/ubuntu's own tools for the process
<LaserJock> normally automated source packages need tweaking
<nubae> so it should be completely within policy
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> debian/ubuntu's tools don't make packages compliant with policy
<LaserJock> the packager does
<LaserJock> but it could be once it gets set up it'll be automagic goodness
<LaserJock> but it's indeed cool that OBS can do all that
<LaserJock> it's a rather amazing tool
<nubae> yep, it even builds isos
<nubae> so we could in theory use that
<nubae> its gpl
<nubae> so it could be the edubuntu build service
<nubae> something to think about
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how well that would work with Ubuntu stuff
<LaserJock> it seems like it would be prone to edubuntu-only bugs that we probably wouldn't want to have to deal with
<LaserJock> but again, it rocks that openSUSE has done that
<LaserJock> it's very much the kind of thing Mark has wanted to do with Launchpad for ages
<nubae> its worth thinking about and studying at least... if does generate isos on the fly that would be way neat
<nubae> not sure how much underlying suse only tech there is in there, but since its gpl, it can be modified and used for other things
<LaserJock> nubae: have you built any .isos with it yet (can't remember from previous conversations)
<nubae> yes I build the sugar suse iso with it
<nubae> its as easy as defining a file with all the packages I want
<nubae> and then doing osc bl i586
<nubae> inside the repo's directory
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I'll contact the students team now :)
<LaserJock> great
<bencrisford1> ill just check for new replies about it on the mailing list first
#edubuntu 2009-05-24
<stan_> hello
<serenity> hi there
<serenity> is anyone of you using a whiteboard together with a wiimote?
<nubae> serenity: funny u should ask that
<nubae> I am in the process now of setting one up
<nubae> have the infrared pens here and the wiimote with the software
<nubae> but its windows :-/
<serenity> :)
<serenity> i have ir pen and wiimote here, but none of my software wants to connect. Moving the mouse works fine
<Ahmuck_> nubae: there is linux software out there for the wii whiteboard
<nubae> Ahmuck yeah I know, its just where I am deploying they use windows, so had to be windows based
<alpharesearch> Hello
<alpharesearch> is it possible to start application in full screen in edubuntu?
<alpharesearch> for example if my 2 year old plays potato guy I don't want he to close the window...
<alpharesearch> or start other applications
<alpharesearch> so it would be good to have him lock down to just one window
<alpharesearch> it would also a good feature to have a keyboard lock, so only keys go to the application but not to X system
<nubae> alpharesearch: take a look at pessulus to lock down stuff
<nubae> think we call it lockdown manager now
<alpharesearch> because he likes toohh, I found the lockdown editor...
<alkisg1> There's a guest mode in recent ubuntu versions, that's fine for this thing...
<alkisg1> I use it when my wife wants to feed my 3 y.o. son while playing on my pc :)
<nubae> oh kiosk mode is like that 2 I guess
<alpharesearch> how you turn kiosk mode on?
<alkisg1> (the guest mode is 2 clicks away, no need to log off)
<alpharesearch> the pc is dedicated for the kids anyway, the main account is like a guest account
<alpharesearch> but if the window closes all the work is lost and the kid could get sad
<alpharesearch> i want to start a application for the kid and lock the pc down, let the kid play and come back later and unlock and may start a different application
<alkisg> Ah, ok. Well you can set the key for full-screen in gnome keyboard shortcuts, e.g. I've set it to Alt+F11
<alkisg> ...and I don't know if/how it's feasible to direct input only to a specific app.
<alpharesearch> thanks for the keyboard shortcut solution!!! Linux has all the solution build in, it is just always had to find the stuff ;)
<alkisg> There's also the possibility to specify that this app always stays on top, that would also help a little bit
<alpharesearch> I just tried the always on top and with the alt+F11 i was not able to switch back... I had to close the game
<alkisg> Hm? I didn't get what you said
<alkisg> I've tried both and work fine for me.
<alpharesearch> I messed it up, because I also pressed alt+tab and this alt+F11 again and now it locks in full screen???
<alkisg> No, just click on it to get the focus on this window again, and with alt+f11 you'll be able to restore it
<alpharesearch> OK I got it, I need to click with the mouse on the window once...
<alpharesearch> alkisg: how can I get the full screen to work with tux paint... the ALT+F11 is not working?
<alkisg> I don't have it installed, I don't know, but I think it has a --full-screen command line option or something.
<alpharesearch> yes, you are right again... there is a --fullscreen command line argument...
<skipjack> Hello
<skipjack> I  think I have some Problems with video/sound on thinclient. If I play a Video file the video and sound, the video beginns to slow down ( thicken ) and if I play only a Audio File all things sounds good
<skipjack> any idea?
<alkisg> " the video beginns to slow down ( thicken ) " ==> you mean the audio?
<skipjack> no the Video of the Video file is not viewable, only some frames
<skipjack> It beginns tu interruppt
<skipjack> and a momentlong there is no sound / and no Video ..
<alkisg> So that would also be true if the video didn't contain any audio?
<skipjack> I think the Video is okay when I disabled sound.
<skipjack> It could be that I need a faster network?
<skipjack> I have here 100mbit
<skipjack> and currently only 1 client
<alkisg> The video needs much more bandwidth than the audio
<skipjack> yes.
<skipjack> I think I need 1Gbit
<alkisg> Sometimes pulseaudio needs a lot of cpu on the client, though, (there's a bug in launchpad for this), maybe that's your trouble
<skipjack> oh okay ;)
<skipjack> hm
<skipjack> I will check
<alkisg> Do you have xv enabled?
<alkisg> (run xvinfo on a terminal on the client)
<pygi> highvoltage: poke
<pygi> ogra_: just saw you in the lobby ... I think :)
<skipjack> When I play a Video, it takes a long time to close a window. Could be network traffic or some missmatch config?=
<alkisg> That's CPU, usually
<alkisg> Do you have LDM_DIRECTX=true or false?
<skipjack> true
<alkisg> ...and how old is this client?
<alkisg> (cpu specs?)
<skipjack> Intel Celeron 1200Mhz
<alkisg> How do you play the video? In which program?
<skipjack> xvinfo (running in an Xterm on thinclient: gives me much output )
<skipjack> video Lan
<alkisg> So all look fine...
<skipjack> hm okay,
<alkisg> Are you _sure_ that LDM_DIRECTX=true?
<skipjack> Should I install videolan ( vlc) as localap?
<alkisg> E.g. you may have forgotten the [default] section on top...
<alkisg> ...or maybe you put lts.conf in the wrong path...
<skipjack> http://rafb.net/p/cRvSgM43.html
<skipjack> my lts.conf
<alkisg> Ah, nvidia :)
<skipjack> hehe okay?
<alkisg> Did you actually install the nvidia drivers on the chroot?
<skipjack> yes
<skipjack> I think the installation is correct. I add to rc.local @ thinclient the insmod command for nvidia.ko
<skipjack> and add rc2.d S17rc.local
<alkisg> Hmmm you have a local xterm handy, to try: getltscfg -a
<alkisg> ?
<alkisg> ...but it should be local, not running on the server...
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> hm whou can I do this? because thinclient hast X / connected to server.
<alkisg> You supposedly have SCREEN_02=shell,
<skipjack> ltsp-localapps xterm
<alkisg> so you should be able to switch to it with ctrl+alt+F2
<alkisg> ltsp-localapps xterm is also good if you run >=8.10
<skipjack> oh okay, so I don't need an local X
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> I see the output
<alkisg> OK then. Try to run "top" in local xterm while playing the video, to see the cpu usage
<pygi> highvoltage: please call/sms me/whatever when you get this, cause my sms is not reaching you :p
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> Xorg has 98.8% CPU use
<alkisg> So no hw acceleration...
<skipjack> I play currently the Video without sound..
<alkisg> ...so probably no nvidia drivers
<skipjack> okay?
<skipjack> hm but, the Xserver does not start when I don't load nvidia driver
<alkisg> Ah, skipjack, also try with X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<alkisg> It should need a little less cpu
<alkisg> skipjack: when I tried with nvidia drivers in the chroot, I also needed MODULE_01=nvidia and  X4_MODULE_01=glx
<alkisg> (in lts.conf)
<skipjack> okay, the Load "glx" is in my xorg.conf and the module is loaded
<skipjack> but I will reduce to 16
<skipjack> hmm
<skipjack> is there an good way to test nvidia hardware Acceleration on thinclient?
<skipjack> alkisg: okay now I have reinstalled nvidia driver and I think there must now Hardware Support on.
<alkisg> skipjack: ok, see the cpu usage, it should be really low for playing xv video
<skipjack> the CPU hast 48% when I watching an Movie ( without Sound output )
<alkisg> Erm, ok, so the other 50% is idle?
<skipjack> top shows me 50% for Xorg
<alkisg> See the "idle" part
<skipjack> okay
<alkisg> E.g. "80.8%id"
<skipjack> 41,7%id
<skipjack> .. and so on
<alkisg> OK, should be more than enough for audio
<alkisg> So, if you turn on audio, you still get lag on the video?
<skipjack> hm okay, it could be also an misstake of Hardware Acceleration, because I have reduce to 16bit
<skipjack> hm I have also lag on video
<alkisg> Now see the bandwidth
<alkisg> Run sudo apt-get install iftop on the server and then sudo iftop
<alkisg> (while the video plays)
<skipjack> okay
<alkisg> If you have hw acceleration (xv playback), then the bandwidth is WIDTHxHEIGHTxFRAMES_PER_SECONDx12
<alkisg> because usually the xv mode selected only uses 12 bits per pixel
<alkisg> ...and that's independent of the window size, it only depends on the original video size.
<skipjack> hmm okay, em xv module, so vlc should use xv ?
<alkisg> Yes. You may try with totem if in doubt...
<alkisg> If xv isn't used, then 100mbit is too little for video playback
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> ;)
<skipjack> hehe t
<skipjack> totem played iot better
<skipjack> but not perfect..
<skipjack> hmm wait lets look a while
<alkisg> What's the video attributes?
<alkisg> width, height, fps?
<skipjack> RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 640 x 352, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)
<alkisg> For xv in vlc: Tools > Preferences > Video > Output : XVideo extension video output
<skipjack> of Video File, and the Screen Resolution: 1920x1200
<skipjack> okay this is what I have seleced for an test.
<alkisg> That's 68Mbps, it should be playing perfectly
<skipjack> but then vlc crashed with (wait I generate the message)
<skipjack> okay, it was playing good / thing we can call it perfect
<alkisg> Ah, and a few more for the audio
<alkisg> Still should play ok
<skipjack> but now it's stopped playing withe message "Connection Lost"
<alkisg> That's not good :)
<alkisg> That's with totem or vlc?
<skipjack> that was totem
<skipjack> I think there is an trouble with pulse audi
<skipjack> because after this disconnect message, pulseaudio is crahsed
<skipjack> I have now no sound on ThinClient
<alkisg> What ubuntu version is that?
<skipjack> but the Video is played perfect
<skipjack> 9.04
<alkisg> There was a bug fix about oss and /dev/snd, I don't know if it has anything to do with what you're experiencing. The fix is in stgraber's repository
<alkisg> ...and that's about as far as I can help, I'm not experienced enough to debug pulseaudio problems :)
<alkisg> If it persists, try in #ltsp
<skipjack> http://nopaste.php-q.net/244066
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> hmm
<alkisg> Yeah, it looks like pulse crashed and that was the cause of the disconnection
<alkisg> Ah, skipjack, you may also want to reboot the client, play the video and check the CPU usage again
<alkisg> Because there's also a bug where pulseaudio needs *a lot* of cpu, if it affects you then you should use a different resampling method
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> client is restarting
<skipjack> alkisg: okay client is back
<skipjack> What can I do for debugin now?
<alkisg> skipjack: run `top` locally on the client (localapps xterm) and play again the video, and see the idle cpu
<alkisg> also, run iftop on the server to monitor the bandwidth
<alkisg> (that shouldn't be a problem though)
<skipjack> okay
<skipjack> wait, musst first read where iftop what displayed..
<skipjack> hmm
<skipjack> hard to debug, after few secs. totem stop playing because pulseaudio is crashing?
<skipjack> cpu idle is in this time: 58%
<skipjack> 58%id
<alkisg> ok, go to #ltsp, maybe someone will guide you on how to interpret the pulseaudio logs
<skipjack> okay, but where are the pulseaudio logs?
<pygi> hi folks :p
<pygi> the evil highvoltage folks and stgraber and others :p
<skipjack> is it possible to run skype on ThinClients? .. I think this must run as localapp or?
#edubuntu 2010-05-24
<vmlintu> joerg: hi
<rmorgan> lively in here huh
<alkisg> Heh
<mhall119> morning
<LedHed> If I want to install a package on LTSP clients, do I install the software in the chroot then update the image,  or do I just install it directly on the server?
<alkisg>   the server usually, except for any "localapps"
<alkisg> !localapps
<LedHed> ok, and do I have to update the image each time I install new software?
<LedHed> sorry, I'm a total n00b with LTSP
<alkisg> No, whenever you install software on the server you don't have to update the image
<alkisg> Only if you install something on the chroot
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> I am using the edubuntu DVD and trying to get the live LTSP thing going, is there a wiki page or something on the requirements? not sure if I need a separate DHCP server or not
<alkisg> AlanBell: I don't think that you need a separate dhcp server
<alkisg> It configures dnsmasq in the nic you tell it to, to function as a dhcp server in 192.168.0.x
<AlanBell> ah, got it
<AlanBell> the crossover cable I was using actually wasn't a crossover
<AlanBell> is there a wiki page or something about the live LTSP and networking?
<alkisg> I don't think so, what problem are you facing?
<AlanBell> I don't have any problem at the moment
<AlanBell> I was going to update it/write it
<alkisg> highvoltage: ^^^ ?
<AlanBell> I am trying a few different things like running the DVD in a VM
<AlanBell> at the moment I have the DVD on hardware and I am booting VMs off it
<AlanBell> but it would have been good to have a description of what exactly the start LTSP live thing does
<alkisg> I think it could use a faster user account creation mechanism, and more choices about the network (e.g. function as a proxydhcp server with an external dhcp server around), but other than that it seems fine
<alkisg> gedit /usr/sbin/ltsp-livecd ;)
<AlanBell> alkisg: actually yes! that does explain it all :-)
<alkisg> A wiki page would be nice to have though, for people that don't have code-reading skills
<AlanBell> yup, tell me where to put it and I will make a start on one
<alkisg> Hmmm highvoltage should be the one to ask about that, I think
<AlanBell> things like setting up bridged networking in virtualbox guests would be good to put somewhere
<AlanBell> any idea how many guests you can get on an Atom based server before it explodes?
<alkisg> RAM-wise, you need about 512 + 192*guests
<alkisg> (for a full experience, not just an xterm)
<alkisg> CPU-wise, it very much depends on if you have LDM_DIRECTX=True (which is true on the livecd),
<alkisg> and on the apps you use - e.g. flash really hogs the cpu
<LedHed> whats the benefit of "localapps" ?
<alkisg> Powerful clients run the apps with their own CPU, relieving the server and the network
<vmlintu> joerg: hi.. do you have any installation instructions for the portal?
<joerg> vmlintu, not yet :) sorry
<joerg> vmlintu, you can try it on our demo server first if you like ;)
<vmlintu> joerg: how do I do that?
<vmlintu> joerg: we have now also the user management tool here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users
<joerg> vmlintu, that looks good. gonna check it out later....
<joerg> vmlintu, could be interesting for us as well - the django framework has it's own user management, but some schools will definitely need to use ldap - for printing and proxy auth at least
<vmlintu> joerg: it works with and without kerberos now and you can administer as many schools as you want in separate ldap databases in single installation
<joerg> vmlintu, well, that's nice but we won't need it :)
<joerg> vmlintu, because the schools manage their users themselves...
<joerg> we have got enough other stuff to do :)
<joerg> but it is useful for support and backup...
<vmlintu> joerg: we don't manage the users either, but provide the tools that are centrally managed
<joerg> we don't have the bandwidth to manage anything centrally
<vmlintu> joerg: where does the "My files" part store the files?
<joerg> dsl is unreliable, the upload is quite slow and some schools in the villages only have ISDN dialup
<joerg> vmlintu, django has the concept of a "storage"
<joerg> in the demo installation it is simply a folder in the filesystem
<joerg> but it could be a BLOB field in the DB as well
<joerg> or you could use the Amazon S3 storage plugin
<vmlintu> so the files are only accessible through the web interface?
<joerg> vmlintu, and webdav
<vmlintu> is webdav working?
<joerg> sure
<joerg> at least I hope so :)
<joerg> vmlintu, http://demo.myserv-project.org/fs/dav
<vmlintu> ValueError at /fs/dav/
<joerg> vmlintu, don't open it in the browser, as it returns an ugly traceback
<vmlintu> ok
<joerg> vmlintu, yeah, because you are doing a GET on a webdav collection.
<joerg> vmlintu, should return a 403 Forbidden or so...
<joerg> didn't catch that exception yet.
<joerg> vmlintu, in nautilus you can simply go to: dav://demo.myserv-project.org/fs/dav
<vmlintu> seems to work
<vmlintu> do you know if it could use cifs as backend?
<joerg> vmlintu, hmm, depends what you mean with "backend"
<joerg> you can store it on an auto mounted cifs storage, sure...
<joerg> vmlintu, in case that you want your users to access their "My Files" via cifs, it could be a bit tricky...
<vmlintu> we have used before a web interface that reads everything through cifs with user permissions
<vmlintu> http://www.simple-groupware.de/cms/WebDisk/IntegraTUMWebDisk
<joerg> vmlintu, the problem is the permissions: in myserv you can add shares to your profile or to the profile of the group that you just founded.
<vmlintu> alternative would be to figure out how windows users get the files working without cifs
<joerg> vmlintu, hmm? just mount it!
<joerg> vmlintu, I have tried it under Windows XP - just add one of these so called "web folders"
<joerg> which is just a webdav client
<vmlintu> hmm.. I guess I have to try that once I find a windows box..
<joerg> hehe....that's sometimes difficult, I know.
<joerg> but there was an issue I think
<joerg> with webdav stuff not sitting at the webservers root
<joerg> that caused problems on windoze
<joerg> that's why I should add a vhost webdav.demo.myserv-project.org if anybody wants to test it on windows
<joerg> vmlintu, another idea would be to automount that stuff using davfs
<joerg> vmlintu, and export that through samba
<vmlintu> I wonder how fast that would be..
<vmlintu> I'll do some testing with the portal later this week and check the sources
<joerg> vmlintu, I wouldn't use that as home dir...
<joerg> it is a place in the web to share stuff with others...
<joerg> not a place for heaps of dot files and app data :P
<vmlintu> are you planning on acls for the shares?
<joerg> vmlintu, well there are acls :P
<joerg> vmlintu, you can edit/view them in a very uncomfortable way right now by right click on a file and "Edit ACL..."
<joerg> vmlintu, they are automatically generated if you add a share to a profile
<joerg> but from our experience, manually setting acls is overkill for students and especially teachers
<joerg> they love you if you make things easy.
<joerg> that's why the share concept exists:
<joerg> if I want to share a folder I add it to my profile and select read/write for my friends and/or everybody
<joerg> if I want to share a folder in a group, I add it to the group profile and select read/write for the group members
<vmlintu> yes, it really should be kept simple for the users
<joerg> vmlintu, got a demo server of your project as well?
<vmlintu> joerg: not a public one at the moment
<joerg> vmlintu, hmm, ok....is it easy to install? then I'd just check it out right now ;)
<joerg> got a meeting concerning these things tomorrow.....
<vmlintu> there's a setup tool here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
<vmlintu> it has been tested on clean lucid server installs only, though
<vmlintu> the installation instructions for the whole thing are here: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/
<vmlintu> I'm working on an actual website and demo server now.. just need to get some new servers installed
<joerg> vmlintu, ah okay....well, I am too tired to follow all that instructions right now....
<joerg> doesn't look like if I could make that in 20 minutes...
<joerg> I don't have more if I want to have 7 hours of sleep :)
<vmlintu> 20 minutes is probably not enough if you haven't done it before
<joerg> vmlintu, well, slapd and ldap auth is running here :)
<vmlintu> did you use the script?
<joerg> vmlintu, yes, your script....ages ago
<joerg> you certainly remember
<joerg> when I found an error which was not an error :)
<vmlintu> I mean the scripts here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
<joerg> ah, no.....I was brushing my teeth :)
<vmlintu> that does all the steps I wrote in the blog
<joerg> vmlintu, just a hint to make it easier: apt-add-repository ppa:opinsys does the sources list thing and the key import :)
<joerg> do I need that kerberos stuff?
<joerg> I dont want it :P
<joerg> and I don't want samba
<vmlintu> kerberos is not required, but the setup script configures it now always
#edubuntu 2010-05-25
<jussi> highvoltage: ping
<EsLo> Hi, seems to be something overriding my .profile when using LTSP in Lucid.. I've created 2 users norsk and nynorsk and set export LANG="nb_NO.UTF-8" for norsk and export LANG="nn_NO.UTF-8"  for the nynorsk user.
<EsLo> When logging in as norsk via ltsp the locale confirms nb_NO
<EsLo> But nynorsk defaults to en_US in ltsp
<EsLo> When I log in directly on LTSP server, the locale is nn_NO
<EsLo> Where do the locale setting get overridden?
<joerg> hi
<mhall119> anyone hwere know anything about the initrd.lz file in the LiveCD?
<joerg> sbalneav, hey.....
<joerg> vmlintu, hi...have you got a clean ubuntu server somewhere?
<vmlintu> joerg: hi.. I can get a new virtual machine running..
<joerg> vmlintu, I am currently trying to write a quick installation guide for the early moves...
<joerg> that's why I ask
<vmlintu> need help testing the guide?
<joerg> vmlintu, yes, that would be great...
<joerg> vmlintu, http://myserv-project.org/install
<joerg> vmlintu, that should take care of everything....except the configuration
<joerg> but if that just works on a fresh ubuntu box without any errors, they'd only have to edit settings.py and will be done...
<vmlintu> ok, I'll try that a bit later, I'm just finishing off other things
<highvoltage> hey there vmlintu
<vmlintu> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I was wondering, did you manage to bring any of the ldap stuff up with the server team during the UDS?
<vmlintu> highvoltage: no.. there was some discussion about it on ubuntu-server mailing list, but it died off quickly and I couldn't find anything about it later..
<highvoltage> vmlintu: ok
<vmlintu> highvoltage: the sources for the user management side are now on github: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users
<highvoltage> oh cool
<vmlintu> you can manage multiple ldap databases + kerberos realms with a single server installation
<vmlintu> It uses subdomains to know which one you want to connect to
<highvoltage> it would be great if that could make it into ubuntu even though it's not used for anything by default yet
<vmlintu> packaging it would mean first packaging <10 gems that are not in ubuntu or need updates
<vmlintu> for the ultimate experience you can try setting up openldap+mit kerberos with 30 ldap databases and kerberos realms with a single command: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
<joerg> vmlintu, isn't there something like virtualenv in python?
<vmlintu> what is virtualenv?
<joerg> a way to install packages in a virtual environment
<joerg> e.g. myserv has heaps of dependencies as well...
<joerg> but I will simply include them in the package
<joerg> the whole thing will be an isolated python environment....
<vmlintu> if I understand debian policy correctly, libraries should not be included..
<joerg> so I wonder why you can't simply put all your ruby dependencies in your package
<joerg> hmm, I don't know what kind of libraries you use....
<vmlintu> you can put the dependencies easily in the package, but I doubt it would make it in the repos..
<joerg> ...but for my project there is a lot of reusable code snippsets
<joerg> sometimes only available via git or so
<vmlintu> sounds the same as the gems in ruby..
<joerg> well, I have nobody to package ten or so small python snippets...
<joerg> django_friends, django_oembed, django_openid, django_notification and so on
<joerg> and then you sometimes need a certain revision/version....
<joerg> I simply cannot take care of that.
<joerg> there will be a batteries included version which simply depends on python and the needed C lib and that's it...
<joerg> and those python libs that are available in ubuntu as packages....
<joerg> e.g. django
<joerg> but not these 200 lines code snippets
<joerg> apart from that: moodle for example use the yale CAS php libs
<joerg> so if it is really that strict....
<joerg> somebody should repackage moodle
<joerg> remove CAS.php and put that in a php5-cas package :)
<highvoltage> vmlintu: yep, you're right
<vmlintu> we'll probably have time for packaging sometime during the summer when schools are out
<joerg> vmlintu, do you think it is too early to post on the mailing list and provide people with access to the demo server?
<joerg> I am not that experienced in building communities around projects
<joerg> but I really need an active community and contributors to run and maintain it in the long run
<vmlintu> joerg: I'm probably not the right person to give advice on that
<joerg> but you have seen it
<vmlintu> I haven't gone through the code yet, but better documentation would probably help getting people interested.. I have now hard time understanding what could be done with the project and how could I benefit from it
<joerg> read the specs :P
<joerg> what kind of docs do you expect?
<joerg> how you can add a comment on a profile? how you can upload and share files?
<joerg> how you can lock and unlock PCs?
<joerg> what a RSS feed is?
<joerg> it is quite self explanatory
<vmlintu> hard to say.. now the specs tell a vision, but the current status is something else
<joerg> vmlintu, not really
<vmlintu> but I don't know django, so I don't understand all the things in there..
<joerg> none of the teachers here ever heard about django
<nubae> django is just a python framework
<nubae> thiink of it as being python
<joerg> you don't even need to know what python is
<nubae> its a webalized framework
<vmlintu> are you focusing teachers with www.myserv-project.org?
<joerg> you just need to know: there is a new portal server for schools through which you can publish news, message each other, share files and folders with friends/classes/groups, pay for stuff like printing, as a teacher book a room, allow or deny internet access on certain machines, black and white list internet sites in the proxy....
<joerg> vmlintu, who else should I focus?
<joerg> bus drivers? :o)
<joerg> a portal server for schools usually has teachers and students in focus, yes :P
<joerg> and those who are interested in technical stuff can read the technical specs.
<nubae> talking about schooltool?
<joerg> the teachers probably gonna simply have a look at the demo.
<joerg> because they are not really interested what technologies/languages are used....
<joerg> they just want to get work done...
<joerg> nubae, no.
<joerg> myserv
<joerg> my upcoming project :)
<nubae> aha, never heard of it
<nubae> shall take a look
<joerg> it won't hurt :)
<nubae> hehe, i hope not
<nubae> or i'll come find u
<nubae> ;-)
<vmlintu> if I wanted to contribute to it, what could/should I do?
<joerg> nubae, the web site is very technical as vmlintu correctly noticed :P but as teachers don't want to read anything either I am just showing them the demo
<joerg> vmlintu, report bugs ;) test it.... criticize it...
<joerg> implement a feature....
<joerg> finding out how it cooperates with your puavo-users stuff
<nubae> welll I?m a dev so good thing for me I guess
<vmlintu> I don't know django, but it says I can write modules in any language - how do I write a module using brainfuck?
<joerg> vmlintu, probably brainfuck + cgi? :P
<joerg> apart from that you should really have a look at django. you will love it :P
<vmlintu> how do I get the module working with myserv?
<vmlintu> I had a look at it and chose ruby on rails
<joerg> vmlintu, follow the opensocial specs at opensocial.org :)
<joerg> that would be one way, but the gadgets/opensocial is not yet completely implemented....
<joerg> your module could then be added as a small gadget on the user's welcome page or a group administrator could for example add it as a tab in the group profile.....
<nubae> joerg....I've loooked into many many school apps
<vmlintu> you have all the answers, but maybe you could make a tutorial-like example how to get started developing on it?
<nubae> can u tell me why this is say better than schooltool/moodle/mahara
<nubae> or is this somethign that can work alongside those apps
<nubae> (would be better for me)
<joerg> nobody wants to replace moodle
<joerg> if you want moodle, use it. myserv will be happy to integrate it into it's navigation and provide a single sign on system
<nubae> well, that would be like an impossile/stupid  feat
<joerg> so you'd only have to log in to myserv and could use your moodle
<joerg> without authenticating again.
<nubae> ok good
<joerg> and if you want to use roundcube, install it.
<joerg> I am not trying to replace existing good things.
<joerg> I am just trying to build a portal around them.
<vmlintu> if it integrates moodle, how do I do it?
<nubae> so is it more like CLaSS student system?
<joerg> I don't know what CLaSS is
<joerg> nubae, did you get my private msg? then log in and see how it looks like....
<joerg> vmlintu, you install moodle, configure it to authenticate against ldap + cas and that's it.
<nubae> well its what some schools have been using (particularly british ones) for student/classrooom management
<nubae> yes I did
<nubae> I'm lookking
<nubae> but difficult to get an overview so quickly
<joerg> vmlintu, you could add a link in the menu as well, and maybe load moodle in an iframe....or a new window.
<vmlintu> joerg: how do I know what to do if I stumble on the page?
<joerg> nubae, well, imagine myserv like an internal "facebook" for a school
<nubae> thats why I'm wondering what its MOST like? class= http://laex.org/class/
<nubae> mahara
<nubae> do u know it?
<nubae> its touted as being the social networking tool to fit in with moodle
<joerg> I am just looking at it...
<nubae> Mahara is an open source e-portfolio system with a flexible display framework. Mahara, meaning 'think' or 'thought' in Te Reo MÄori, is user centred environment with a permissions framework that enables different views of an e-portfolio to be easily managed. Mahara also features a weblog, resume builder and social networking system, connecting users and creating online learner communities.
<nubae> I'd imagine its something like that?
<joerg> you don't have to copy the website for me
<joerg> but thx :D
<nubae> was just the description of what it was
<nubae> didn't want to hassle u with having to wade through the whole thing :-)
<joerg> well, does mahara act as a single sign on system?
<nubae> sorry was just trying to be helpful
<nubae> oh yes
<joerg> what sso system?
<nubae> and more, it shares all data with moodle
<nubae> whichever u set it up with could be openid
<joerg> as provider?
<joerg> nubae, what if I am logged into mahara and want to access my webmail?
<joerg> you have to login again, right?
<joerg> because mahara is only openid consumer
<joerg> and the mail client / imap server is not openid capable
<nubae> u could... it uses rmlpc(SP?) for sharing data
<nubae> shit... forgot the proper name
<joerg> hehe
<joerg> anyway.....can a teacher book a room using mahara?
<nubae> http://wiki.mahara.org/System_Administrator's_Guide/Moodle//Mahara_Integration
<nubae> that tells moe about moodle and single sign on and mahara system
<nubae> that sounds more like a school tool kind of thing
<nubae> but I couldnt honestly tell u
<joerg> that sounds like mahara is only working with moodle
<joerg> and not with squirrelmail
<nubae> its more like a social networking tool (e-portfolio) than anything else
<joerg> or roundcube, or xyz
<joerg> or foobar integrated library system/opac
<joerg> whatsoever
<vmlintu> joerg: these are the things you should write on your website - why it rocks
<nubae> it is VERY integrated wtih moodle yes
<nubae> almost like a plugin
<joerg> vmlintu, I will :)
<joerg> nubae, yeah, but what I'm trying is to provide an open interface to everything.
<joerg> just look for CAS or even openid....
<nubae> If u dont mind, I wil do a write up about your app on my site (nubae.com)
<vmlintu> when I hear portal I think of yahoo
<nubae> there is a write up there about mahara and moodle
<nubae> worth taking a look
<joerg> I just read it
<joerg> it tells me that it is only focused on that particular product
<nubae> oh... the write up on nubae.com?
<joerg> 99 of 100 schools here don't need moodle
<joerg> haha, and we have 150 schools here which we are supporting
<nubae> hmm... that is a VERY srtong comment
<joerg> nobody ever asked for a moodle setup :)
<nubae> about 40% or Britiish schools use it
<joerg> oh
<joerg> well teachers here dont want it
<joerg> because it is more work
<nubae> where would that be?
<joerg> and has no benefit...
<nubae> I would strongly argue against that
<joerg> they dont want to login there, assign tasks and things like that
<joerg> they tell them in class what the homework is
<joerg> they won't turn on a computer for it
<nubae> but I've been involved with moodle for 5 years and know it like the back of my hand so am somewhat biased
<joerg> I can only tell you how it is here
<joerg> at these 140 german schools
<joerg> they say: "nice, but we don't need it, it won't improve the quality of the lessons"
<nubae> funny... because the largest moodle setup I know of is in Austria
<nubae> I lived there for many years
<nubae> Ich wurde wirchlich nicht saggen dass man Moodle nich braucht...
<joerg> I only tell you how it is here
<joerg> in northern germany
<joerg> which is 800km from the austrian border
<joerg> austria is a technology playground
<joerg> they have mobile broadband everywhere, they are rich and small
<joerg> and have almost no social problems.....like we have in the suburbs of berlin etc.
<nubae> ok... I believe u... but as u are seemingly against moodle... does that mean that your product was not built with it in mind?
<nubae> sorry for the harsh questions, but I must ask them
<nubae> if I am to write an unbiased report
<ColonelPanik> nubae, Do you know of any OpenSource language programs that would do what Rosetta Stone does?
<nubae> an open interface to everything doesnt tell me much... its like saying, I'm building a website that will do everything... I would prefer a description of what your site actually does, who its for, why it was created (what joolted it on - there is always something/someone) that forces that)
<nubae> ColonelPanik, in what sense?
<nubae> joerg... I do love the interface though... its simple
<nubae> obvious
<nubae> and teachers would feel at home right away
<nubae> but I'm still struggling with what it actually does
<nubae> for me... a facebook for moodle is totaly mahjara, and i think u would agree, so u need another description
<ColonelPanik> General computer aided language acquisition.  Something to learn English, Spanish, etc.
<nubae> but like apps for the desktop?
<nubae> or for development work?
<ColonelPanik> Schools, students go to the language lab, use computer to learn a language?
<nubae> ColonelPanik, I am quite involved with Sugar....
<nubae> I know it has some great language tools...
<ColonelPanik> http://www.rosettastone.com
<nubae> then there is gcompris
<nubae> italso has some great tools inside
<nubae> I've heard of roseta stone and probaby used t, but need to refresh my memory
<nubae> let me take a look
<ColonelPanik> Thanks nubae, my wife teaches ESL at the university level and Rosetta Stone is very expensive
<nubae> yeah that I know :-) I see it on all the torrent sites because of that
<nubae> google should have some tools for that purpose
<nubae> chrome has the amazing ability to translate really well any website into another  language
<nubae> to the degree it almost reads like it was written in that language
<nubae> you should check to see if google hasnt developed someting great
<nubae> ColonelPanik, u know rosettta stone works with wine right?
<nubae> but she wants to be legal?
<nubae> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10409371-264.html - google edges to rosetta stone status
<nubae> have a read of that
<nubae> its what I thought might be the case
<nubae> joerg, did I upset u with any of my comments? that was truly not my intention
<ColonelPanik> For sure we will be legal.  And OPEN SOURCE
<nubae> I would like to write a piece on your software, it might boost your user based considerably
<ColonelPanik> nubae,  Do not translation need a program to learn a language.
<nubae> ColonelPanik, http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/54605
<nubae> that link should be a good starting point
<nubae> yes, but I think google is working on something like that... it would need some digging.... but it mst be out there.... they've invested a hell of a lot into translation and language tools
<ColonelPanik> nubae, Thank you.  Thats what I am talking about.
<nubae> I'd be surprised if there wasn't a tool they created to learn languages
<nubae> no probs...
<joerg> hmm
<joerg> nubae, sorry dinner :P
<joerg> nothing against you
<nubae> oh... bon apetit then
<nubae> we can talk later
<joerg> I am back :P
<joerg> I wasn't upset
<joerg> I was having dinner
<joerg> anyway: I can just tell you what I already said: 140 of 140 clients did not ask us for moodle
<joerg> and if there are people in austria who LOVE it
<joerg> and cannot live without it
<joerg> I don't care.
<mhall119> woot!  RC for Qimo 2 is out: http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-rc1.iso.torrent
<joerg> I am not paid for making solutions for austrians :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: did you compress that initramfs?
<mhall119> I found out I needed to extract the gzipped version made by update-initramfs, and compress it with lzma instead
<mhall119> also, I left the gzipped version in /boot, which it seems I didn't need to do
<joerg> nubae, the strength of myserv is or will be, that it integrates everything - as far as I know schooltool like solutions, they follow the "the teacher is god" concept
<joerg> nubae, or the admin is god.
<mhall119> between that, and removing some stuff from /var/cache/man/cat, I was able to get it down to 699.4 MB
<nubae> joerg, ok, well, I will analyse all the options and do a write about it explaining that it is menat to be a school product that ties into existing school products already in use in those schools
<nubae> dioes that sound about right?
<nubae> has it been translated into many languages?
<joerg> lol
<joerg> the project was born on 26th of january :P
<joerg> what do you expect?
<nubae> just questions
<joerg> what you can see is a small demo of revision 159 of the code
<nubae> I willmention that too
<joerg> there's nothing ready for production
<nubae> ah ok, when will it be production ready?
<joerg> nubae, anyway.....as far as I can see, mahara is only a social network
<nubae> ie...when do u expect a release?
<joerg> it only focuses on one product
<joerg> and does not provide open interfaces and technologies
<nubae> its extremely good at what it does
<joerg> so it is quite different
<joerg> that might be
<nubae> being an e-portfolio
<nubae> a personalised area for students and teachers using moodle
<joerg> yes, but I am just telling you why it is absolutely not suitable for us.
<nubae> oh I didnt think it was, I was just trying to get a feel for a similar product
<joerg> and I am not against moodle
<nubae> and thought from your first description it migjt be mahara
<joerg> I just say: MY clients dont ask me for moodle
<nubae> but I guess its not
<joerg> so I am not focused on it
<nubae> have u looked at class?
<joerg> even though myserv can integrate it
<nubae> that might be more like what myserv is like
<joerg> nope
<joerg> absolutely not
<joerg> as far as I can see, you can manage marks and stuff with it.
<nubae> ok, I'll treat it as a new product that has no known competitors
<joerg> hmm
<joerg> iserv is one :P
<nubae> ok.... that helps
<joerg> but that won't help you unless you are quite fluent in german
<nubae> if i can show how myserv is superior, it will make a better story
<nubae> I am
<joerg> nubae, the thing is: e.g. mahara is a quite isolated environment
<nubae> hab in Ã¶sterreich eine ganze weile gelebt
<joerg> is there a way to integrate it into ldap?
<joerg> for the users/groups?
<nubae> absolutely
<joerg> oh, ok, then I didn't really find it qhile quickly scanning the docs.
<alkisg> joerg, is there a beta available for your myserv? What can it do already?
<joerg> anyway....I don't know all that stuff in detail
<nubae> thats its strength it shares absolutely all its data with moodle via rml-rpc
<joerg> yes, but please understand that I do not concern it as a strength
<joerg> for us
<nubae> I am not going to compare it to mahara if u say the 2 products are differet
<joerg> if none of your customers wants to use microsoft windows, it doesn't help you if you have the best windows integrating software ever
<nubae> I would prefer to compare to a real competito like ierv
<nubae> iserv
<joerg> well...it is inspired by iserv.
<joerg> because these guys have a monopoly here
<nubae> ok I shalll mention that too
<joerg> you shouldn't write anything anywhere before there is a more or less working beta :P
<nubae> is the idea for myserv to be international?
<nubae> ok, fine
<joerg> the idea for myserv is at first sight: solve OUR problems
<nubae> I'l give u my email private
<joerg> we are just so nice that we don't sell it but share it with others as OSS
<nubae> u write me when u think its ready for a review
<joerg> well it already is :9
<joerg> but you have to use the demo
<joerg> and click through it
<joerg> as there is no documentation available at the moment saying: it rocks, because you can do A, B and C
<joerg> I just can tell you in brief what it does:
<joerg> it supports several auth backends (including ldap), it acts aus SSO provider for others like webmail and moodle, it provides social networking stuff (have friends, have a profile, found a group, make a group profile).
<joerg> it provides file sharing capabilities, that's quite important for us.
<joerg> the users have a web based (ajax) file manager to upload and manage their home directory
<joerg> and they can add a so called share to their own profile and share it with their friends (r, rw) or everyboddy (r, rw)
<joerg> and you can add a share to a group profile
<joerg> if you are the group manager/founder.
<nubae> so its like a moodle+mahara but inspired by iserv and for your particular userbase
<joerg> e.g. a read only folder in your home that you as a teacher share with your students - which provides a homework task as pdfs etc.
<nubae> northern germany
<nubae> to me that sounds exactly like moodle+mahara
<joerg> it is more like facebook + "share a folder with this group/my friends"
<nubae> yep... thats mahara
<joerg> hmm, maybe should get a demo account there then :)
<nubae> but f u dont want me to, i wont even mention moodle or mahara
<joerg> well, and apart from that: personalized start page with RSS feeds, notifications, gadgets (opensocial)
<nubae> yeah u shoould
<nubae> agaijn....mahara
<joerg> hmm, ok
<joerg> and well, the files stuff is accessible through webdav
<nubae> even drag and drop interface
<nubae> to move stuff around
<joerg> drag and drop is nothing magical :P
<nubae> it would probablyhelp with some ideas
<nubae> i know
<nubae> but teachers and studnets love it
<joerg> hmm, ok....
<joerg> ok, and apart from that the intranet stuff
<nubae> read through my write up and follow the instructions
<joerg> block host foobar from internet access
<joerg> allow internet access in room 123
<nubae> u'llthen get an idea of what it is and how it compare
<joerg> block www.youtube.com for 30 minutes in room 312
<nubae> and maybe gives u some ideasm u can integrate
<nubae> ok, thats original
<nubae> dont think moodle ormahara do that
<nubae> but another product does
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> but of course i forgot the name
<nubae> its used extensively with ltsp
<nubae> as the user manager
<nubae> damn whats it called again...
<nubae> its used to control terminals and other computers
<joerg> but not windoze computers I guess
<nubae> u can even share a single desktop with all the others
<joerg> we just need to block proxy access / ip masquerading
<nubae> yah windows too
<joerg> hmm, the mahara thing looks good
<joerg> first thing: how do I access my files or group files locally?
<joerg> is there a way to mount it under linux?
<joerg> and connect it as a drive in windows?
<nubae> like I said, run through the doc I wrote
<nubae> it'll give u an idea of everything possible
<nubae> and yes, its done by a group of coders related to the moodle project
<joerg> so it is not possible at present?
<nubae> so its real high quality
<nubae> I do not know
<joerg> you wrote docs about it but you don't know? :)
<nubae> I write a LOT of docs
<joerg> hmm
<nubae> I cant be expectd to remmeber every detail about every doc
<nubae> for instance I wrote a large part of the ltsp manual
<nubae> it doesnt mean I know everything about LTSP
<nubae> far from it...
<nubae> but it does integrate with webdav
<nubae> mahara and moole
<nubae> moodle
<nubae> so in a way yes mounting windows is possible
<joerg> I cannot find anything about how I can mount my "my files" as webdav.
<nubae> welll, I'd help u look, but I'm sure google will help u faster
<nubae> search webdav moodle
<joerg> I am not looking at moodle
<joerg> I am talking about mahara
<nubae> if nothing comes up I'll give u 100 dollars
<joerg> the my files part of mahara
<joerg> a personal home directory
<nubae> mahara ties into moodle 100 percent
<nubae> so whatever is possible with moodle is possible with mahara
<joerg> I dont see any moodle
<nubae> look.... if u really want to see what it does and how it integrates, do what I said, follow the instructions on installing the 2 and integrating
<nubae> it'll take u half an hour at most
<nubae> u dont see any moodle what?
<nubae> ok,found the other progrma Italc
<joerg> I have a demo account at mahara.org
<nubae> if u havent seen that, take a look
<nubae> that is REALLY impressive
<nubae> and does the lockdown stuff u were talking about with you tube
<joerg> I know it
<joerg> and it has absolutely nothing to do with proxy filters
<nubae> I never mentioned and u never mentioned proxy filters
<joerg> I said allowing and denying internet access
<nubae> u said blocking youtube on a remte machine
<joerg> which has to do with proxies and firewalls
<joerg> and not with teachers playing big brother
<nubae> heh... thats not what I would call I talc,but never mind
<joerg> yes, that is proxy filtering / blacklisting of certain sites
<joerg> because they contain P0RN or whatever :P
<joerg> or the solution of the current task :)
<nubae> for what u are mentioning dansguardian is the defalto standard
<nubae> along with squid
<joerg> ok and where's the web frontend?
<nubae> why anyone else would use something different is beyong me
<joerg> where the teacher can add a url?
<nubae> therer are lots
<nubae> I use webmin
<joerg> or domain? to be blocked for the next 34 minutes?
<joerg> and webmin does time based proxy filtering?
<nubae> and dansguardian has a great little gui
<nubae> dansguardian does
<nubae> also there is ufw
<nubae> which has a great gui
<nubae> look im not attacking your product
<nubae>  think itlooks wonderfuk
<nubae> wonderful
<joerg> give me a link :P
<nubae> but almost everything we can think of has already been done some place
<joerg> for a web based gui
<joerg> where a teacher can login with his ldap account
<nubae> for what dansguardian?
<nubae> actaully
<joerg> and select: room 211 -> computer 1 -> block youtube for 23 minutes
<nubae> i'll give u one better
<nubae> hang on
<joerg> we have dansguardian
<nubae> cause we used this at guadalinex-edu
<nubae> i used to work there
<joerg> if it allows teachers to block things forever, forget it :)
<joerg> we are not talking about cool web based firewall tools.
<joerg> we are talking about a gui for very stupid people
<alkisg> How does the blocking work? The teacher has root access to all the client PCs and inserts some iptable rules?
<joerg> who will block internet access on all machines
<alkisg> Or with squid and inetd?
<joerg> and go away having forgotten about it
<nubae> https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
<joerg> next person comes, nothing works.
<nubae> eat your heart out
<joerg> in our setup?
<joerg> teachers logs in to myserv
<joerg> selectes a room
<joerg> selects some hosts
<joerg> or all hosts.
<joerg> tells the number of minutes
<nubae> joerg check out that link
<nubae> and install
<joerg> and says "block" or "unblock"
<alkisg> Not the GUI, the backend, how does it work technically?
<nubae> there is nothing better out there i guarantee it
<joerg> alkisg, that depends....it only executes a command.
<alkisg> With root privileges?
<alkisg> I.e. does each teacher have root privileges to all PCs?
<joerg> alkisg, what we are doing at the moment: add it to a text file with ips that are blocked by squidguard
<joerg> and add an ip tables rule to block forwarding for that host
<nubae> alkisg. http://demo.myserv-project.org
<joerg> alkisg, the teacher logs into a web gui, the gateway/proxy.
<alkisg> Is there anything that prevents the clients from not using that proxy?
<joerg> alkisg, and that web app has sudo rights on a script that blocks/allows
<joerg> if you only use the proxy to block it...
<joerg> ...you don't need sudo/root
<joerg> alkisg, yes
<joerg> you either use it or you don't have internet access
<nubae> joerg did u check out  webcontentcontrol?
<joerg> unless you bring your own 3G device or so :)
<alkisg> joerg: so it won't work on all schools - only specially configured schools, right?
<joerg> no, I cannot explain things to him and check out sth at the same time :P
<joerg> alkisg, hmm?
<joerg> if you want internet
<alkisg> I.e. I can't use my router as the gateway, I need to use a special server for a gateway
<joerg> you need to have a gateway/proxy
<joerg> which usually runs on linux
<alkisg> So in order to use your program in my school, I'd need a specially configured server, right?
<joerg> yes sure....
<joerg> you need users/groups etc.
<joerg> or find a way how the server can tell your router what to do :P
<alkisg> Can you block access by user?
<alkisg> Or only by PC?
<alkisg> E.g. will it work in ltsp environments, where all users are essentically on the server?
<joerg> nubae, forget it :P
<joerg> sorry to say it
<joerg> but the interface is overkill
<joerg> tinyproxy on? dansguardian on?
<joerg> teachers will already give up here because they dont know what that is.
<nubae> joerg, perhaps, but it does what u said, and way more
<joerg> apart from that, it cannot manage multiple hosts/rooms/ips/mac adresses
<joerg> seems to be for parents blocking certain stuff on a single machine
<nubae> I'm just syaing... there is nothing out there that hasnt already been done
<alkisg> The only way I found to block internet access by user, was to use squid with inetd.
<joerg> nubae, this is NOT doing what I said
<nubae> if yours looks nicer and works simpler kudos
<joerg> it is NOT web based
<joerg> it does not authenticate me and check if I am a teacher
<joerg> it does not show me rooms/hosts I have at my school
<nubae> then search dansguardian and gui
<nubae> u'll find lots
<nubae> ubuntu christian editinon has it installed by default
<joerg> lool
<joerg> alkisg, inetd?
<alkisg> joerg: yes, it is used to tell squid which user is requesting the page
<joerg> you mean identd?
<alkisg> Otherwise user-based filtering doesn't work
<alkisg> Yes, sorry
<alkisg> identd.
<nubae> joerg, actually... guadalinex-edu just developed something like that, based on avahi...
<joerg> if you trust your machines
<nubae> wrks great
<joerg> I'd use squid + ldap
<joerg> and proxy auth
<nubae> lets u control every room in a school and every app
<nubae> does single sign on
<alkisg> joerg: so the students would have to authenticate to the proxy to access the internet?
<joerg> yes
<alkisg> Can that be automated for younger students?
<nubae> but dont think thye released it yet.... or maybe they did... it had a funny name
<joerg> nubae, are you a teacher?
<joerg> have you really dealt with everyday problems at a school for years?
<nubae> joerg, anyway, would u like me to doa write up of your product or not
<nubae> actually I am a teacher
<nubae> though a dev too
<joerg> you are serving me a new name of some "cool app" every 2 minutes here
<joerg> and there's instead of mahara nothing that you could ever use in a school
<nubae> joerg yes I have
<joerg> because all of it is for ADMINs
<joerg> and cannot be used by ppl without technical skills
<nubae> I disagree, but hye
<joerg> did you ever confront a teacher for latin and religion with webmin?
<nubae> 40% off British schools use moodle
<nubae> and many use mahara as a plugin
<nubae> its the most widely used (by TEACHERS) app in the world
<joerg> and how many percent of british teachers are able to configure dansguardian through one of your proposed guis?
<joerg> and how many of them are able to use webmin?
<joerg> sorry, but they call us and ask if we know where the enter key is :)
<nubae> well, the ones I've trained have had no problems... but usually itis NOT a teacher that run webmin or dansguardian
<joerg> or why they can't upload a 200mb file through their dialup
<nubae> why would they?
<joerg> because they are writing an exam in the room
<joerg> and don't want that the students can access the web in the next 45 minutes
<nubae> joerg, to be honest.. I'm much more interested in teaching with real simple tools to young kids (4-9)
<nubae> I use sugar for that
<joerg> yeah, I know it.
<joerg> for the primary schools we don't need all that stuff
<joerg> but for a 17 yo highschool teenie, things are different
<nubae> well, thats what I'm currently really using.... and focusign on
<joerg> yeah
<joerg> or e.g. in my high school youtube.com is blocked
<joerg> because they have a very slow dsl line
<nubae> but I have a blog, and I do write ups on interesting school products
<joerg> and if it is not blocked, the traffic is so much that other's cant really work anymore.
<nubae> would u like me to write up something on myserv, yes or no?
<joerg> but for certain projects, e.g. a video project, teachers want youtube.
<nubae> I dont really want to waste any more time on this
<joerg> so they should have a way to whitelist youtube for the particular room for e.g. 45 minutes
<joerg> becuase if it is not timed, they will forget to lock it
<joerg> and it will stay whitelisted forever
<joerg> nubae, no
<nubae> okm :-)
<joerg> nubae, I don't think anybody who says that he doesn't want to "waste time" on my project could write anything objective about it.
<joerg> you are just giving me names of software that you probably never really used.
<joerg> to give me the feeling that I am so stupid and develop things that are already there.
<joerg> what do you want to write if you don't even want to understand what it is about?
<nubae> I didnt say that
<joerg> and why all your webmin and technical admin stuff is not the solution for an arts teachers that wants to allow youtube for his video project
<nubae> I said I dont want to waste any more time arguing about what we'vee been arguiing about
<nubae> but thre are many projects out there
<joerg> yes, and that means you don't want to waste time on understanding why I believe that this solution is new and unique.
<nubae> so if u dont want attention on yours, and from what u've read, u'll see I'm always impartial, thats your perogative
<joerg> I just don't want anybody to write about a project that he doesn't know in detail
<joerg> write about sugar or whatever stuff you have experience with.
<nubae> I told u I would study it and then do the write up
<nubae> but u are far far too defensive...
<nubae> so lets just leave it at that
<nubae> your loss, not mine
<joerg> lol
<nubae> It would be MY time I would be usin
<nubae> u'd have nothing to loose
<joerg> I don't need negative publicity
<nubae> u obviously thnink you've created gods masterpiece... I wish u all the best...
<joerg> I am trying to explain you some points
<joerg> and you simply send me links and names and so on
<nubae> it wouldnt have been negative at all
<joerg> telling me: why myserv? look at xyz
<nubae> I stated several times I thouhgt it looked excellent
<joerg> and I look at xyz and think: what the HELL has it to do with the things you just said? :)
<joerg> the thing is: I am trying to explain you by example why we are not using solutions that are already there.
<joerg> I am talking about differences and advantages.
<joerg> and you say: but xyz can do this too....and that's mostly not the case.
<joerg> how do you want to write an in-depth article about myserv?
<joerg> e.g. if it comes to webdav access
<joerg> mounting local drives
<nubae> no actually, I dont anymore
<joerg> you tell me how cool mahara is
<nubae> please just stop talking now
<joerg> but if I ask you: is it possible to mount it as drive....you don't know it.
<joerg> yes, sorry....
<joerg> but either you give me a FAIR chance or you leave it.
<joerg> but I am tired of looking at x, y and z and trying to explain you why it does not do what we need.
<nubae> gosh I'm just gonna leave the channel for a while, this is getting ridiculous
<joerg> lol
<joerg> :(
<joerg> maybe I should stop developing open source software
<joerg> if the only feedback I get is that my work is senseless :(
<joerg> alkisg, sorry
<alkisg> np, you guys really shouldn't be fighting for open source software. Anyway I gotta do some work, bbl.
<joerg> no
<joerg> but do you know how that feeling is?
<joerg> you have a project, you believe in the ideas
<joerg> and somebody is asking you what the advantages and concepts are
<joerg> you explain an advantage, the other person says: abcd can do it as well.
<joerg> you have a quick look at abcd's web page and it cannot do it.
<joerg> I can better go and make proprietary stuff and make money with it
<joerg> instead of doing idealistic stuff for people who don't they thank you or anything positive.
<joerg> and no, I am NOT gonna announce it on the mailinglist anymore.
<joerg> bye
<LedHed> When using LTSP, I want a client to execute a script that requires a name be set.  I wanted to use the devices hostname,  but when I use `hostname` in my script I get the servers hostname.  How can I get the hostname from the client via script?
<alkisg> $LTSP_CLIENT_HOSTNAME
<LedHed> alkisg, thank you!
<alkisg> np
<LedHed> alkisg, can I set the client hostname via DHCP?
<alkisg> LedHed: In karmic+, yes
<alkisg> You can also set it from lts.conf
<LedHed> alkisg, I'm using Lucid,
<LedHed> How do I config ltsp clients to grab the hostname via DHCP? is it an option in lts.conf?
<alkisg> No, if you want to set it by dhcp, that's done from /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<alkisg> You can also set it from lts.conf, but that isn't dhcp anymore. It has the same effect, though
<alkisg> [ma:ca:dr:es:s]
<alkisg> HOSTNAME=xxx
<alkisg> For dhcpd.conf you'd need to google it, it's easy but I don't use dhcpd.conf so I can't have an example handy
<LedHed> alkisg, ok.  I'm already setting the hostname via DHCP Reservation.
<LedHed> the clients just dont seem to be getting it.
<LedHed> Its a Windows DHCP server
<alkisg> Hmmm ok then do some debugging:
<LedHed> I will.  Thanks for the help
<alkisg> replace "quiet splash" with "break=init" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<alkisg> Then boot a client
<alkisg> You'll get a busybox shell
<alkisg> In that shell, type: cat /etc/net-eth0.conf
<alkisg> And see if it got the hostname.
<LedHed> ok,  thanks.  I would never have thought of doing that
#edubuntu 2010-05-26
<jussi> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> jussi: pong
<jussi> highvoltage: may I have a few moments of your time for a personal question?
<highvoltage> jussi: yep
<highvoltage> ogra: could you perhaps make me admin on https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu ?
<ogra> done
<ogra> you might want to disable rich btw :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> cd /2
<highvoltage> morning sbalneavie
<sbalneav> highvoltage: have a look at xexit in my ppa
<sbalneav> it successfully detects thin client disconnects, and terminates all processes.
<sbalneav> it's lower-resource than gnome-watchdog, and although I've only got scripts included to handle gnome logins, it should work with ANY wm environment.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: oh nice!
<rmorgan> hello all
<bencrisford> rmorgan: hey :)
<rmorgan> I am undertaking a little project, in the planning stage to develop a touchscreen learning environment for my daughter
<rmorgan> s/little/huge
<rmorgan> http://www.armor-it.co.uk/plan.doc
<highvoltage> meeeeeeting tiiiiiiiiiime!
<highvoltage> (assuming anyone is around for it ;))
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I am!
<bencrisford> :)
 * highvoltage tries to think of an English word for "staatmaker"
<highvoltage> well 'n "staatmaker" is Afrikaans for someone you can always rely on :)
<rmorgan> I'm here but i dont really count
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i'll remember that word, could be useful :)
<bencrisford> rmorgan: everybody counts!
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> hey rmorgan, just saw your link now
<highvoltage> rmorgan: that is indeed quite a big undertaking!
<rmorgan> but very worthwhile in my mind
<rmorgan> I want to give my daughter the very biggest advantage i can
<bencrisford> rmorgan: :) I read it, looks exciting!
<alkisg> stgraber: the poweroff/reboot upstart jobs now take care of proper shutdown, right? So can I remove the -fp from ldm and the rest of the ltsp scripts? vagrantc says he also wants that for debian, and I want it because I get ghost ssh processes for fat clients if -fp is used to early...
<rmorgan> I have ordered a 28" touchscreen lcd and an F series ION board should be here friday so i can start with the exisiting package choices and work out what i need to do myself
<stgraber> alkisg: yep, -fp shouldn't be necessary if the upstart script is there (or something doing the same)
<alkisg> stgraber: ok, would you mind if I committed the change to remove it?
<alkisg> (with the proper testing on lucid of course)
<stgraber> alkisg: no problem for me
<alkisg> Thanks
<alkisg> Lns: meeting time... :)
<Lns> alkisg: thank you!!
<Lns> So like i said, please use any of that stuff for edubuntu marketing if you want. I wont sue I promise ;)
<Lns> I'm not too familiar with bzr yet. it's something that'll have to wait until i'm done with some other projects
<highvoltage> Lns: nice video
<bencrisford> Lns: heh :) i'll bzr it for you if you don't mind :), licensing?
<Lns> highvoltage: thanks :) spent a buttload of money on it, haha!
<Lns> bencrisford: not a problem, thanks!! CC would be fine for licensing, whatever you think is best. I really don't care.
<Lns> Just want to help.
<bencrisford> Lns: :D I think I recommend cc-by-sa in the branch readme, so if that is OK with great :)
<bencrisford> with you*
<bencrisford> ugh, lots of typos coming from me this evening
<Lns> bencrisford: of course. I trust you to place it in whatever license seems best for the project
<bencrisford> Lns: I'll do my best :)
<Lns> coolio\
<bencrisford> Lns: pushed your materials to the branch :)
<Lns> bencrisford: thank you!
<bencrisford> Lns: no, thank you!  Yours are the first completed materials to be uploaded :)
<Lns> do you want a good copy of the video, or ? You can even take out the parts that mention my company if you want to make it more generic
<Lns> woohoo!
<Lns> actually i could probably do that pretty quick in avidemux
<bencrisford> Lns: awesome! :), for now I will link to it in the notes file the directory which your posters are in :)
<Lns> oh the youtube link? Ok, but remember that a lot of schools block youtube.com so that might pose an issue
<bencrisford> Lns: hmm..  Well I have to add the notes file anyway, I forgot.. :P
<Lns> ok - just don't link the logicalnetworking.net/other/ directory, that's kind of like my online junk drawer =p
<bencrisford> Lns: I saved the images and added them to the branch :), no linking
<bencrisford> unless I do add the youtube link
<bencrisford> but i'm wondering if its worth it, not sure how many people actually read "readme"s :P
<Lns> I'm kind of wondering what purpose bzr has with marketing material though? Is it just somewhere to put everything so we can use it elsewhere, or are we expecting people to install packages eventually and look at the material from there?
<bencrisford> Lns: just someone to put stuff :), a box full of useful stuff for the ~edubuntu-advocacy team
<bencrisford> raw images (logos etc) to help people create marketing materials
<bencrisford> and complete materials for people to distribute
<Lns> ok
<bencrisford> I just thought it made sense to have a big collection of stuff in the same place for people who want to help advocacte edubuntu
<bencrisford> :)
<Lns> for sure!
<bencrisford> *yawn* time for sleep :)
<bencrisford> g'night ;)
#edubuntu 2010-05-27
<alkisg> Good morning
<atomic007za> hi
<atomic007za> does the edubuntu DVD come with ltsp built in like 9.04 where you pressed f4/f6 and do the ltsp install?
<alkisg> Not exactly, it now has live ltsp and it can also be installed from within the graphical installer
<atomic007za> ausome thx
<atomic007za> whats the name of 10.04?
<alkisg> Lucid Lynx
<atomic007za> thx
<mhall119> highvoltage: Qimo 2 will be officially released tonight (US Eastern Time)
<highvoltage> mhall119: oh cool! I can blog about it tomorrow if you want
<mhall119> cool, cause I'm linking to your blog in the announcement
<mhall119> Qimo 2.0 is officially out!
<mhall119> Read the announcement here: http://qimo4kids.com/post/Qimo-20-is-now-available!.aspx
<bencrisford> mhall119: :D!
<highvoltage> mhall119: tweeted and dented
<atomic007za> .
<atomic007za> .
<ish> Is it possible to go from ubuntu to edubuntu without a reinstall?
#edubuntu 2010-05-28
<HedgeMage> ping highvoltage stgraber pleia2
<pleia2> hello
<HedgeMage> pleia2: may I pm?
<pleia2> sure
<HedgeMage> thanks
<RicardoPerez> Hi! One question, please: Can I use sudo inside an LTSP client session?
<bencrisford> mhall119: downloading qimo 2.0 :)
<mhall119> bencrisford: enjoy
<bencrisford> D:
<bencrisford> :D*
<mhall119> and thanks for the retweet
<bencrisford> mhall119: :) no worries
#edubuntu 2010-05-29
<mhall119> http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=12847698&from=badge help us promote Qimo 2.0
<bencrisford> mhall119: voted up as "insightful" and "interesting"
<bencrisford> :)
<mhall119> thanks
#edubuntu 2010-05-30
<mhall119> highvoltage: how active is debian-edu?
<highvoltage> mhall119: very active
#edubuntu 2011-05-23
<alkisg> The spec links from the ml approval mails don't work... e.g.: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/edubuntu/+spec/community-o-debian-edu-edubuntu-collaboration
<stgraber> alkisg: I just moved it to the ubuntu project (~ 30s ago ;))
<stgraber> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-edubuntu
<stgraber> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-debian-edu-edubuntu-collaboration
<alkisg> Ah ok  :)
<stgraber> so we can target them to Oneiric
#edubuntu 2011-05-24
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning!
<Hyperbyte> Hi!  New installation of Edubuntu 11.04... so new in fact, the server is still cooling down from all the work...
<Hyperbyte> I configured http_proxy and ftp_proxy in /etc/profile
<Hyperbyte> Logged in again via SSH so the variables get set
<Hyperbyte> Run apt-get install thunderbird
<Hyperbyte> "E: Encountered a section with no Package: header"
<Hyperbyte> Looked online, saw something about removing /var/lib/apt/lists/*, which didn't help.  Also saw something about exchanging /var/lib/dpkg/status-old and status... no luck either
<Hyperbyte> Anymore suggestions? :)
<Hyperbyte> It also says to try aptitude by the way, which would be great if it was installed. :)
<Hyperbyte> Also:  "W: GPG error: http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com natty InRelease: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2"
<Hyperbyte> This is when I run apt-get as root, by the way... as user it doesn't connect, not even a little.... even though the proxy settings are ok. :/
 * Hyperbyte is confused.
<highvoltage> hey Hyperbyte
<highvoltage> what does your http_proxy say? I had a problem like that before when I didn't have a slash at the end of the proxy line
<highvoltage> (like http_proxy="http://user:pass@host:port" instead of http_proxy="http://user:pass@host:port/"
<highvoltage> )
<Hyperbyte> Oh, hi-ghvoltage. :)
<Hyperbyte> Nice to see you here as well
<Hyperbyte> declare -x ftp_proxy="http://192.168.100.1:3128/"
<Hyperbyte> declare -x http_proxy="http://192.168.100.1:3128/"
<Hyperbyte> declare -x https_proxy="http://192.168.100.1:3128/"
<Hyperbyte> (wget works, so proxy config should be ok)
<Hyperbyte> You know you'd make my day if you'd help me fix this.
<Hyperbyte> I've implemented LTSP with Fedora and I'm running into all sorts of problems.
<Hyperbyte> So insanely big problems it needs fixing -now-, or so the boss says... he's right though, not just pushing me.
<Hyperbyte> Thing is - Fedora sucks with LTSP.  In fact, I'd go as far as to say Fedora's GUI and the support that comes with it, is insanely bad.
<Hyperbyte> So I've decided to switch to Edubuntu overnight (yes, I'm planning to work through the night if needed)... and get rid of Fedora
<Hyperbyte> I'm not gonna get very far if I can't get this apt-get thing working though... so it would mean insanely much to me if you could help me fix this. :)
<Hyperbyte> http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/aptget.png
<Hyperbyte> That's the full 'apt-get update' output, which some stuff missing at the top, but it spits out of a lot of stuff
<Hyperbyte> *with
<highvoltage> I think you could make a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d that would contain Acquire::http::Proxy "http://192.168.100.1:3128/" that might work
<highvoltage> (well, that's what I would try anyway)
<JanMiddelkoop> Hmm...
<JanMiddelkoop> Hyperbyte is lagging behind for some reason. :|
<JanMiddelkoop> Did I miss anything?
<highvoltage> maybe
<highvoltage> 09:52 < highvoltage> I think you could make a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d that would contain Acquire::http::Proxy "http://192.168.100.1:3128/" that might work
<highvoltage> 09:53 < highvoltage> (well, that's what I would try anyway)
<Hyperbyte> I feel a netsplit coming up by the way... some major lag here...
<JanMiddelkoop> Wow.  I typed that 5 minutes ago
<JanMiddelkoop> root@terminaltest:~# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20proxy
<JanMiddelkoop> Acquire::http::Proxy "http://192.168.100.1:3128/"
<JanMiddelkoop> root@terminaltest:~# apt-get update
<JanMiddelkoop> E: Syntax error /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20proxy:2: Extra junk at end of file
<highvoltage> maybe it doesn't want a newline or maybe there's whitespace at the end of the line
<highvoltage> I guess the :2 is indicative of a newline
<JanMiddelkoop> I checked, there isn't.
<JanMiddelkoop> Checked with vi to make sure
<JanMiddelkoop> Semicolon missing.
<JanMiddelkoop> :)
<JanMiddelkoop> Fixed that, same error.
<JanMiddelkoop> It looks like it has no trouble finding my proxy actually...
<highvoltage> ah
<JanMiddelkoop> It's downloading even, so it says... it says there's a problem with some package or list or whatever
<JanMiddelkoop> Hah, was waiting for that.
<highvoltage> do you have lzma installed?
<JanMiddelkoop> Yessir.
<highvoltage> ok, looking at your screenshot it seems to have trouble with decoding lzma, but that could just be because the files its getting is 0b
<highvoltage> can't think of anything weird that we do in edubuntu that would cause that, it might be a good idea to ask in #ubuntu too fwiw
<JanMiddelkoop> Just did that.
<highvoltage> stgraber: didn't you use to be able to log in as a guest user from GDM?
<stgraber> highvoltage: nope, you can't
<stgraber> highvoltage: you can only start a guest session from an existing user session
<highvoltage> pity.
<stgraber> it's certainly doable to have it in gdm, it just wasn't done for security reason
#edubuntu 2011-05-25
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<Hyperbyte> :)
<highvoltage> Hyperbyte: things going better today than yesterday?
<highvoltage> ooh, we have an edubuntu meeting today
<stgraber> yep
 * highvoltage mails out a reminder
<alkisg> Wow the ML is quite fast... got it already :)
<highvoltage> :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> highvoltage: what time?
<alkisg> 19:00 UTC
 * Ahmuck-Sr doesn't see it on the fridge
<alkisg> Meeting?
<alkisg> Ah summer time, in 50 mins
<highvoltage> Meeting time! (kind of past but anyway...)
#edubuntu 2011-05-26
<dlbass> Hello everyone!
<dlbass> I have a really big problem. I have a classroom of Dell GX110 running 10.04. When I connect an LCD display everything works fine. If i connect a CRT the image is "zoomed  in".
<alkisg> Hello
<dlbass> Does anyone know anything about this?
<alkisg> Are you using LTSP?
<dlbass> not here
<alkisg> What's the output of "xrandr" when you connect the CRT display?
<dlbass> it shows all the normal resolutions and refresh rates
<dlbass> no apparent errors
<alkisg> Can you put it to pastebin?
<dlbass> Sure, I will be right back.
<dlbass> student@SES-FS2G20B:~$ xrandr Screen 0: minimum 640 x 400, current 1280 x 1024, maximum 1280 x 1024 default connected 1280x1024+0+0 0mm x 0mm    1280x1024      60.0*    75.0      1280x960       60.0      1152x864       75.0     70.0     60.0      1024x768       75.0     60.0     70.0      832x624        75.0      800x600        75.0     60.0     72.0     56.0      640x480        75.0     60.0     73.0      720x400        70.0   stud
<alkisg> OK so your current resolution is 1280x1024, and you want something different?
<alkisg> Also are you sure that you got this output while booting with the *CRT* monitor?
<dlbass> sorry for the delay
<dlbass> talking to my boss
<dlbass> I did this: boot with LCD, switch to CRT, and the CRT is working mostly. But if I boot with the CRT it does teh zoomed in thing.
<alkisg> So the problem is that your graphics driver doesn't read the EDID information from the display properly
<dlbass> That's precisely what I was thinking, I tried the modeset=0, and that worked a few times, and others it didnt
<dlbass> So, I guess I might have been passing it in the wrong way, but I was holding shift at boot to get GRUB2, then pressing e, then adding modeset=0 to the end of the kernel section
<dlbass> If I took a picture of what it looks like, would that help any?
<alkisg> Create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file with the following contents:
<alkisg> http://pastebin.com/9Fuhn386
<alkisg> Reboot and see if the problem is solved
<dlbass> pastebin is blocked, can you just paste it in here?
<alkisg> I think the floodbot won't allow it
<dlbass> We are behind ASC blocks, and they block almost every useful site.
<alkisg> Is paste.ubuntu.com also blocked for you?
<dlbass> it is not
<dlbass> YAY
<alkisg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/613352/
<dlbass> It is giving me an error, no ushc file or directory when trying to create it.
<dlbass> I've never had this before
<alkisg> sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<alkisg> Paste the contents, and save
<dlbass> That is what I was doing
<dlbass> also tried sudo nano
<dlbass> and sudo su, then gedit, and nano
<dlbass> Ok, I am going to try it in a different machine, there are 13 like this one.
<dlbass> aaaaahhhhhh! case sensitive OS! I can never remember that
<dlbass> going to reboot, be right back alkisg.
<dlbass_> It is still doing it.
<dlbass_> Or is it, I think it might be working
<alkisg> You should have 1024x768 resolution now
<alkisg> Run xrandr to verify
<dlbass_> it is 1280x1024@60
#edubuntu 2011-05-27
<dlbass> hello everyone
<dlbass> Can anyone help me out with some opinions?
<dlbass> I am working in a lab of thirteen Dell GX110s, five GX260s, two GX280s, and all are using 17" CRT monitors.
<dlbass> These computers are for an elementary school, and the principal wants us to put linux on them. I am familiar with the different flavors of Ubuntu, so what is what I have been working with here.
<dlbass> I have been having issues with gnome on 10.04 not reading the EDID of these old monitors properly. I am able to work around it by manually setting the resolution. That almost always works, but these kids won't be able to do that each time the computers go off.
<dlbass> The lab is currently running with wireless, so I can't use LTSP unless I run wires. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what you would do in this situation?
<stgraber> you can probably write a /etc/X11/xorg.conf file to force the resolution
<stgraber> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=129379#post129379 is very old but should still be pretty accurate
<dlbass> thanks!
#edubuntu 2011-05-28
<MK``> Are the majority of questions asked here generic Ubuntu questions?
<Pavlx> hello anyone can help me ? i got a problem with edubuntu i decided to post the problem on http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/614047
<zoobab_> hi
<zoobab_> live from Edubuntu workshop
<zoobab_> https://hackerspace.be/EdubuntuLTSP
<zoobab_> any idea how to get rid of unity2d on edubuntu liveltsp
<zoobab_> http://old.nabble.com/ldm-and-xsession,-Edubuntu-11.04-td31201423.html
#edubuntu 2012-05-22
<Tubai> hello any one there?
<Tubai> hiii...?
<Tubai> hello guys ne1 there?
<th1a> highvoltage: ayt?
<highvoltage> tya
<th1a> You're working at Revolution Linux, right?
<highvoltage> th1a: indeed
<th1a> I just remembered that a few years ago we were talking to them about their system for integrating various applications on their servers.
<th1a> They had some pluggable thingy.  ;-)
<highvoltage> hmm, not sure what it was at the time. might have been webforge. or it might have been the configuration management system we use, bcfg2.
<th1a> Well, it was for, say, keeping user databases in sync.
<highvoltage> ah probably OAPS
<th1a> That rings a bell.
<highvoltage> http://www.revolutionlinux.com/Account-provisionning?var_recherche=OAPS
<highvoltage> (I know the RL website is sucky, I take no responsibility in that :) )
<th1a> lol
<th1a> That's what edubuntu needs.
<highvoltage> yeah unfortunately the "O" in "Open Accound Provisioning System" is a misnomer :-/
<highvoltage> s/Accound/Account/g
<th1a> Yes...
<highvoltage> the main developer on that is pushing on changing that, so perhaps it might one day.
<th1a> Yes, there was some possibility of it happening or we wouldn't have been talking about it at all.
<th1a> We're going to have to come up with some kind of strategy -- even if it is just the simplest thing possible for the next release.
<highvoltage> in schooltool?
<th1a> I mean for integration between pieces in Edubuntu.
<highvoltage> yes, indeed. at least most things seem to integrate quite well with AD/ldap, and we're really interested in running a domain on samba4
<th1a> Some perl scripts written by the Zentyal guys...
<highvoltage> but I know that that's not enough by far
<th1a> Maybe we should just focus on LDAP.
<th1a> Yeah, that might be the best approach as far as user and group management.
<th1a> Just put the message passing architectures out of my mind.
<highvoltage> OAPS is so complicated with that that I can't begin to wrap my mind around it.
<th1a> Well, yes, that too.
<vmlintu> is samba4 usable yet?
#edubuntu 2012-05-23
<highvoltage> depends on your definition of usable
<highvoltage> stgraber is sitting next to me and saying "come on, of course it's usable" :)
<linda> How to remove the wiki page link for a state from kgeography app?
<Mitchell_M> has anyone had experience editing .desktop files?
<Mitchell_M> If so, can you explain to me how to edit .desktop files to allow a shortcut to appear on the Ubuntu launcher for all users?
<alkisg> Mitchell_M: http://askubuntu.com/questions/73096/how-to-make-applications-pinned-in-launcher-appear-for-all-users
<Mitchell_M> alkisg: oh, well that's convenient :D
<alkisg> :)
<Mitchell_M> alkisg: Now I assume that 'pinned-application1.desktop' is replaced with the apps I want pinned. I know this is simple,but still >.<
<alkisg> Mitchell_M: ls /usr/share/applications
<Mitchell_M> alkisg: Oh, I see. I should put the full location -> /usr/share/applications/app.desktop instead of pinned-application
<alkisg> No, just the file name, not the path
<alkisg> It knows to look in that directory
<Mitchell_M> kk, even better
<cog> hi Q:)
<edu-sysadmin> hi
<edu-sysadmin> is the 12.04 web session not working for anyone else?
<edu-sysadmin> WebLive
<edu-sysadmin> it could be because im in Hawaii
#edubuntu 2012-05-24
<bencer> stgraber: how are you going with the zentyal packageset thing?
<stgraber> bencer: I'm waiting to have a team to give the rights to
<bencer> uhm and i guess zentyal team doesnt work
<bencer> because there are more people in there
<bencer> right?
<stgraber> right, micahg was supposed to create a package set team owned by the DMB for that and add you to it
<bencer> so he has to create the team?
<stgraber> yes
<micahg> bencer: I told you that yesterday
<bencer> micahg: ok, didnt read that, true
<bencer> when do you expect to have time for that?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> I have a long day today, will try to squeeze it in
<bencer> ok, we have a fix here ready for the reported bugs, i will have to read on SRU to see if its worth it
<mhall119> first contribution to edubuntu in about 2 years
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> hopefully it won't be another 2 years before the next one
<stgraber> ;)
<mhall119> stgraber: highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide is updated for precise, and links to apps.ubuntu.com now
<stgraber> mhall119: cool, thanks
<micahg> bencer: you still probably won't be able to upload to precise unless stgraber creates the packageset there as well (usually not done, not sure of the difficulty_
<stgraber> micahg: I added a "copy" function to edit_acl for that ;)
<stgraber> I don't usually do it unless I get asked though, keeping the packagesets up to date for every release is a bit of a pain, so I only copy when needed
<bencer> stgraber: micahg dont do it for precise by now, i want to read/discuss if its worth it to make a SRU
<bencer> is a bug when upgrading from lucid
<jacalvo> from any previous distro, also affects natty, oneiric...
<jacalvo> but the fix is in the postinst of the precise package
<bencer> stgraber: micahg what do you think? does it work it a SRU? whats the policy on these cases?
<micahg> upgrade bugs are generally good SRU candidates
<Pictix> Bonsoir tout le monde / Hi everybody
<alkisg> ÎÎ±Î»Î·ÏÏÎ­ÏÎ±
<Er_> hello to alll
<Er_> hello everyone
<alkisg> Hello
<Hyperbyte> Hi alkisg :)
<highvoltage> and I miss alkisg again
<Hyperbyte> It's ok... I miss him too.
 * Hyperbyte comforts highvoltage
<highvoltage> hehe
<edu-sysadmin> hello
<edu-sysadmin> anyone here?
<edu-sysadmin> I had a question about the WebLive sessions, they aren't working for me
<edu-sysadmin> the client launches then closes after I click OK
<stgraber> edu-sysadmin: looking
<edu-sysadmin> stgraber: thank you, I appreciate it
<edu-sysadmin> might also have something to do with my location, I'm in Hawaii
<stgraber> unless someone is blocking port 6522 or port 6622, it shouldn't
<edu-sysadmin> wouldn't that prevent the client from launching though?
<stgraber> yeah, it'd
<edu-sysadmin> I can start the nomachine client and see the desktop background as it connects, but then it just terminates right after I click OK
<stgraber> k. I'm currently applying the pending updates on both servers, then will reboot them so they run all the session cleanup scripts, maybe that'll be enough, otherwise I'll have to investigate later
<edu-sysadmin> okay, thank you!
<highvoltage> mgariepy, stgraber: hopefully this pans out: http://tranzistors.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/progress-on-gnome-lockdown-1-feature-list/
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I think I saw it on planet gnome earlier this week, that's good news
<mgariepy> stgraber, is ionice working in lxc containers ?
<stgraber> it should, yes
<mgariepy> kk
<stgraber> root@mediatomb01:~# ionice -c 1 ls
<stgraber> root@mediatomb01:~#
<mgariepy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1005428/
<stgraber> as the IO scheduler is container aware, it "should" do the right thing and not let a container kill the whole host
<mgariepy> it's not on openvz ;) hehe
<stgraber> yeah, OpenVZ is weird like that, it does something similar with the OOM kill protection
<mgariepy> can we sru this in ubuntu ?
<stgraber> instead of doing the obviously correct thing of grouping all the processes of a given pid namespace and consider the group as a single regular-priority task outside of the pid namespace (that's what the linux scheduler does)
<stgraber> just to be annoying, I'll say no ;) if it was breaking with LXC, it'd be a bug, but considering we don't support OpenVZ since 8.04, it's not technically a bug :)
<stgraber> I'm not against SRUing it with some other fixes, just won't push it on its own
<stgraber> mgariepy: can you file a bug against ltsp in Ubuntu, targeted for quantal+precise with an ltsp upstream task and tagged with needsru?
<mgariepy> stgraber, k thanks
<mgariepy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1004158
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004158 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "ltsp-update-image doesn't work on precise in an openvz container" [Undecided,New]
<stgraber> thanks
<mgariepy> welcome
<stgraber> mgariepy: already fixed upstream?
<mgariepy> yeah
<mgariepy> j'ai pris le test de /etc/cron.daily/mlocate ;)
<mgariepy> sur ce, cya
<mgariepy> stgraber, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2242
<stgraber> a+
#edubuntu 2012-05-25
<alkisg> stgraber: Hi, I just pushed /usr/sbin/ltsp-config and I'm ready to start testing, debugging etc, would you have any packaging ready before the weekend, or should I test with my own local debian/ dir?
<bencer> stgraber: micahg has already created the lp team https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-zentyal-dev, you can proceed with the packageset when you have time
<paul83> I noticed that the smbldaptools is missing the configure.pl file in the usr/share/doc/smbldap-tools is this is know bug
<stgraber> bencer: it was done a minute after micahg created the team
<highvoltage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2012-May/003816.html
<highvoltage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2012-May/003817.html
<highvoltage> stgraber: so are you setting up the zentyal package set?
<highvoltage> (I vaguely read something about that before but can't remember the details)
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/zentyal
<highvoltage> cool.
<kleewyck> I have a ltsp server running Ubuntu 11.10 and my clients seem to work just fine. When update to 12.04 I have no audio on my clients. Anyone had this issue?
<cog> :3
<alkisg> :4
#edubuntu 2012-05-27
<alkisg> I don't understand why building ltsp works for everyone but not me, without manually running ./autogen.sh first.
<alkisg> It fails to build on launchpad for me, it fails with local debuild -b -tc...
<alkisg> The problem is in the final dh_clean, which deletes client/localapps/missing, and THEN tries to run `make clean`, and that fails because client/localapps/missing isn't there..
<alkisg> I.e. I get the .debs and then it stops with an error
<stgraber> alkisg: I always "export" the branch with mkdst to a temporary tarball, that way it runs autogen and any other needed action. I also never re-use a build directory.
<alkisg> stgraber: wouldn't it be considered an error though if it doesn't build with just debuild?
<alkisg> I also don't reuse a build directory, I run bzr clean etc before running debuild again
<stgraber> yeah, it's certainly a bug, just not one any distro maintainer ever hits ;)
<alkisg> OK, I'll try to find some fix for it...
<alkisg> stgraber: ...but how did the ltsp-daily recipe work then? Does it run mkdst or autogen.sh?
<stgraber> alkisg: IIRC the packaging for ltsp-daily has some changes in debian/rules to run the autogen
<alkisg> Gotcha
#edubuntu 2013-05-20
<amol> hi
<amol> I am having some issue in using live LTSP feature. I can live boot into server.
<amol> but when I try logging into thin client as guest I see wallpaper but no icon
<amol> please help
#edubuntu 2014-05-25
<gassho> hei
<highvoltage> hey
#edubuntu 2016-05-23
<Ryukerg> Hello!
#edubuntu 2016-05-26
<Crony> Good morning. Is there a general chat about Edubuntu? I am trying to learn more about it, my wife is a school teacher and I heard this would be perfect for her. She is anti-Ubuntu, so doing the research before I go to her and expect her to figure things out; I want her to know there are great tools from the Linux/Ubuntu community out there for her.
<Crony> Blah, I have to make a long drive. Will return later.
<RR_> hello! I have prepared an educational tileset for gnome-mahjongg may I post the link?
<RR_> I would also like to get people interested in completing or expanding this design project, but I do not how to look for them.
<RR_> ... do not know how ...
#edubuntu 2016-05-27
<jim___> howdy
<jim___> FYI Put up a BT Sync key on reddit, hoping to get some people sharing with me
<jim___> BZQYEC7UA6DQNB36KANYXTWN2K2XUSZIO
<jim___> has 14.04 i386 & AMD64 on it
<jim___> https://www.reddit.com/r/BTsynckeys/comments/4lbbmb/edubuntu_1404/
<mstanclik> hi
#edubuntu 2016-05-29
<mstanclik> hello
<mstanclik> I from Poland
<mstanclik> When new edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2017-05-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: mutter (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.24.1-0ubuntu1 => 3.24.2-0ubuntu0.1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2017-05-24
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.13-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.10-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-05-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.9-113-g513e99e0-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.7.9-113-g513e99e0-0ubuntu1~16.10.1 => 0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-113-g513e99e0-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-05-21
<Guest60246> Minere BTC enquanto navega e trabalha  sem deixar o pc lentÃ£o Bitcoin consegue aos poucos mesmo!  https://getcryptotab.com/718967 Video tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzqQN3kL4g&t=166s
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: ebtables (bionic-proposed/main) [2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2 => 2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: ebtables (artful-proposed/main) [2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2 => 2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-05-22
<glat-agent2> Your GNU/Linux copy is not genuine. Purchase a license for $99 now.
