#ubuntu-meeting-2 2016-02-16
<mdeslaur> \o
 * stgraber waves
 * mdeslaur waves to SchrÃ¶dinger's tech board
<pitti> o/
<pitti> there's some interesting discussion on u-devel@ about archive reorg episode VII
<pitti> otherwise I don't see much of an agenda
<mdeslaur> I like the proposal
<pitti> TBH it sounds to me like trading in some short-term convenience for piling even more on top of our ever-growing tech debt long-term
<pitti> "I can't build ubuntu touch because of that half-done Haskell transition"
<pitti> and the like
<pitti> but oh well, if people want that pain, so be it
<kees> o/
<mdeslaur> pitti: hrm, I don't quite understand that example
<pitti> but the thing that'll be an absolute disaster is to enable universe for image builds and (try to) disable it again at release
<pitti> this will sooo not work
<mdeslaur> pitti: oh, that part will never work, yeah
<pitti> mdeslaur: well, half of the time the Haskell stack or other bits are uninstallable because of half-done transitions
<pitti> mdeslaur: if we now start build-depending on that for a lot of crucial packages, we'll suddenly find ourselves in a position where we have to fix the entire <censored> Haskell transition (which happen like every month) before -proposed becomes installable again
<pitti> mdeslaur: just look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<pitti> and imagine -- one uninstallable package in that mess will ruin your day
<pitti> right now it ruins some universe packages, but *shrug*, they'll just stay in -proposed until someone cares, or get kicked out
<mdeslaur> ah, I see what you mean...we now have to care about all the universe packages
<pitti> because all of a sudden there is no boundary to what we call "supported" officially
<mdeslaur> which kind of defeats the purpose of trying to care less
<pitti> that's the kind of long-term trade-off that I mean
<pitti> it might *seem* easier, but in half a year we might find it's a complete loss
<pitti> I believe that the MIR process *has* to be painful and long
<pitti> we already have way too much crap in main  which people never get rid of
<pitti> thus blowing up our images, security support, etc.
<mdeslaur> yeah, I now see the issue
<pitti> i. e. if you want to pull in a new toolchain to build your package, I think the onus should be on *you* to reconsider if you don't rather use the ubuntu "standard" technology/API
<pitti> instead of "someone in the release team will figure it out two days before release"
<pitti> so that kind of barrier is not a bug IMHO, it's a feature
<pitti> and if anything they aren't high enough :)
<pitti> </rant>, sorry
<pitti> didn't mean to turn this meeting into a soapbox
<mdeslaur> no, I think that makes sense, and it's something I had not thought about
<mdeslaur> trying to get rid of a 5-year support commitment by opening up universe then makes universe something we have to support at least until release
<mdeslaur> hm
<pitti> well, if we don't want to support universe, we'd have to use less of it, not more..
<pitti> anway, no quorum, no official board, I suppose we skip the official meeting?
<mdeslaur> so what we really need to something between main and universe, a buildmain or something
<mdeslaur> yeah, I think we can skip
<pitti> right, I proposed a main-build-deps component in the middle
<mdeslaur> kees: did you have anything?
<pitti> but that was rejected
<pitti> stgraber: anything from your side?
<pitti> (sorry, we actually do have quorum!)
<stgraber> I did read the proposal back when it was still a WIP, haven't had time to follow much of the discussion since though
<pitti> I'll follow up on the ML again wrt. the main-build-deps component
<kees> mdeslaur: nothing from me
<stgraber> tbh, for a while now the biggest pain with main promotions has been the multi-month delay for security reviews
<pitti> right
<stgraber> to the point where we've had to promote things basically on release week because it took so long to review, that resulted in a bunch of breakage in wily which we've had to deal with through SRUs
<pitti> but that's not going to go away for things where a security review is actually relevant and requested
<stgraber> that's also not something I'd expect to change with that bit of archive reorg
<pitti> multi-month is certainly the issue which needs to be addressed
<pitti> two weeks or so would be fine, but of course if there's too much demand for new stuff that should increase the pressure to maybe take a step back and ask "do I really need that" :)
<stgraber> we could workaround the issue by having the security review be non-blocking. That is the MIR team requests the review by filing a separate critical bug on the package, but let the promotion go ahead regardless.
<pitti> that sounds workable
<pitti> if the MIR gets a new point "contingency plan if security review outcome is negative"
<pitti> i. e. how the feature can be pulled without disrupting half of ubuntu
<pitti> I just followed up to the ML wrt. the intermediate component
<pitti> stgraber: want to follow up about the "speed up MIR reviews" proposal?
<stgraber> overly busy right now but I may look into that next time I'm stuck on security review and get frustrated :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<pitti> ok, I think we're done here?
 * pitti waves good night
<stgraber> sounds like it
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
<pitti> cheers
#ubuntu-meeting-2 2017-02-14
 * slangasek looks around
<mdeslaur> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> mdeslaur: wiki says kees is chair, else you
 * mdeslaur gets worried and searches frantically for kees
<kees> \o
<kees> sorry for lateness!
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 14 17:04:43 2017 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * stgraber waves
<kees> #topic Action Review
<kees> ACTION: infinity to follow up with maas SRU exception
<kees> anything there?
<kees> no? moving on...
<kees> ACTION: infinity to play with seed/maint-check changes on dogfood to build a new xenial release pocket for support length auditing (ETA: 16.04.2 release)
<kees> also infinity's... anyone know anything about this?
<slangasek> have heard no movement
<kees> ACTION: slangasek to investigate getting tagged ubuntu-community bugs automatically forwarded to technical-board, and if not feasible, fall back to DMB sending signed emails to list for ACL requests
<slangasek> still in my queue
<kees> okidoky
<kees> ACTION: slangasek to follow up to snapd-glib SRU exception request
<slangasek> yeah, haven't done that yet either
<slangasek> still seems plausible that I might before the next meting
<slangasek> meeting
<kees> #topic Agenda items
<kees> nothing in the wiki!
<kees> #topic mailing list
<kees> 1 topic, already handled (acl list changes)
<kees> #topic community bugs
<kees> empty!
<kees> #topic AOB
<kees> anyone got other stuff?
<slangasek> not I
<mdeslaur> not me
<kees> this is going swimmingly. ;)
<stgraber> I don't
<kees> #topic next chair
<slangasek> I am suddenly reminded of a joke from my French professor
<kees> mdeslaur with slangasek backup?
<mdeslaur> kees: yep
<mdeslaur> slangasek: oh, do tell
<kees> boom, done!
<kees> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 14 17:10:57 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2017/ubuntu-meeting-2.2017-02-14-17.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> "si quelqu'un ici parle franÃ§ais, levez la main" "je!" "pas vous"
<kees> the agenda update notification list on the wiki is fun :)
<kees> Notifications sent to: alan-ar06, sylvestre, mdeslaur, lyz, mdz, persia, fourdollars, scott, voodoo-eu, jpds, laserjock, davidc3, guillaume-blum, kees, nhandler, elfy, ajmitch, soren, wgrant, dotrananh, warp10, zakame
<mdeslaur> slangasek: heh
<slangasek> thanks, guys!
<kees> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting-2 2018-02-13
<mdeslaur> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 * stgraber waves
<mdeslaur> hi stgraber!
 * tsimonq2 wonders if there's a TB meeting...
<mdeslaur> doesn't look like we have quorum, so probably not
<mdeslaur> tsimonq2: did you have something to bring up?
<mdeslaur> stgraber: there are two +1s on the budgie lts application, do we need anything else?
<stgraber> it's fine with me, so that's an extra +1
<tsimonq2> mdeslaur: Not particularly, but I enjoy spectating :)
<mdeslaur> stgraber: can you send the confirmation email?
<mdeslaur> tsimonq2: hehe :)
<stgraber> done
<mdeslaur> thanks stgraber!
<mdeslaur> ok. meeting cancelled. nothing to see here, go home.
<tsimonq2> o/
