#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-26
<dholbach> good morning
<akgraner> Good Morning! :-D
<akgraner> or rather - good  - appropriate greating of the day for whatever time zone you may be in :-)
<akgraner> greeting even
<akgraner> hey dinda!
<dinda> morning akgraner
<akgraner> Pendulum, thanks again for all your help yesterday
<Pendulum> akgraner: no problem
<Pendulum> glad to help :)
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-27
<elky> Hrm... no MichelleQ today? :(
<dholbach> good morning
<pleia2> etali: thanks for blogging about the competition, and welcome to our planet! :)
 * maco giggles
<etali> pleia2, thanks :)
<maco> take me to your lizard
<etali> lol, many people do think I'm from another planet :)
<czajkowski> aloha
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-28
<Edith_> IdleOne - What is the translation's priority ?
<IdleOne> one minutew on phone :)
<IdleOne> Edith_: right now I think priority would be blogging about the World play day contest
<IdleOne> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Fr/Evenement/Competitions/WorldPlayDay
<Edith_> Actually, I'm working on FormulaireDeConsentement. Is it ok ?
<IdleOne> perfect :)
<IdleOne> I was about to mention that
<IdleOne> akgraner: ping
<akgraner> IdleOne, pong
<IdleOne> akgraner: how do we go about translating the consentment form?
<IdleOne> err model release waiver that is
<IdleOne> Edith_ is translating that page right now.
<akgraner> what do you mean by "go about"
<akgraner> not sure I understand how translating this is different from the other pages
<IdleOne> well providing a translated release waiver in pdf format
<akgraner> ahh
<akgraner> if you want to send me a the doc file
<akgraner> or when it's finished I can just grab it off the wiki
<IdleOne> ok.  good idea
<Edith_> IdleOne: I send a first copy, but I was unable to see a preview.
<Edith_> I kept a file with the text.
<IdleOne> looks good
<Edith_> I'll look tomorrow, when I'll be rested ;)
<Edith_> bye !
<IdleOne> err I can't seem to edit her draft :/
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> good morning
<Dragzard> #join Ubuntu
<Dragzard> Sorry
<valorie> most clients can do /j #ubuntu
<maco> valorie: they made it ;-)
<valorie> :-)
<Dragzard> I know, I forgot the slash.
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-29
<valorie> oh, I guess
<valorie> too used to saying beta
<valorie> good grief, hail!
<valorie> lots of it
 * elky raises and eyebrow at -women. he wants the netbook for himself, doesn't he.
<elky> s/and/an/
<nigelbabu> yes, probably
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-30
<pleia2> woo, MichelleQ interview! http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-36/
<nhandler> pleia2: Is that going on the fridge?
<pleia2> nhandler: soon
<pleia2> hmm, I could probably do it now
 * pleia2 peers at clock
<pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2031
<pleia2> yay :)
<nhandler> :)
<nigelbabu> woo, issyl0 and MichelleQ, nice :)
<nigelbabu> both of you rock btw!
 * svaksha is upgrading to 10.04 and it says "6 hours remaining" hmmm.
 * nigelbabu did clean install
<svaksha> nigelbabu: cant, i have too much of other stuff that i dont want to redo
<nigelbabu> svaksha: I screwed up gpg keys again :(
<svaksha> its not fun redoing the dev environment as i tend to miss stuff and waste time
<svaksha> nigelbabu: how?
<svaksha> lost the pw?
<nigelbabu> lost the key
<nigelbabu> I backed it up, but forgot to put in the folder i was putting the backup stuff
<svaksha> ah, gen a new one and revoke the old
<nigelbabu> how can  revoke without the key?
<svaksha> yesm cant
<svaksha> yes*
 * svaksha forgot the loooong passphrase once. the painful part was DD's had signed it :(
<nigelbabu> ouch
<MichelleQ> pleia2, nigelbabu: thanks!
<nigelbabu> MichelleQ: :)
<MichelleQ> thank you to issyl0 for inviting me to join in
<nigelbabu> who took those photos?
<MichelleQ> friend of mine
<nigelbabu> slr?
<MichelleQ1> nigelbabu: dslr, yes.  actually my gear.  Sony alpha 350
<nigelbabu> MichelleQ1: wow!
<nigelbabu> its looks crystal clear!
<MichelleQ1> It's a hobby of mine.  I do photos for friends and family.
<MichelleQ1> it's way high-res.  Took the photos of the Thunderbirds I've got up on facebook with it.
 * MichelleQ1 wanders over to U-W.
<dholbach> good morning
 * elky sighs at raghs
<elky> He. Does. Not. Learn.
<nigelbabu> elky: Patience.
<nigelbabu> elky: He will step over the line one day you'll get to ban him :D
<elky> nigelbabu, he's been skirting the line for like a year now.
<nigelbabu> ew! troll alert
<nigelbabu> ok "potential perhaps"
<pleia2> Pendulum or issyl0: before I forget - status on interview for FCM this month? it's not due until next weekend but I know at least Pen and I will be on an airplane on due date..
<Pendulum> pleia2: issyl0 is interviewing me. I'm about 50% done. And you might need to take a photo at UDS to go with it
<pleia2> great :)
<pleia2> and I can send the photo after the interview if required, so that's no big deal
<Pendulum> (most recent good photo of me is from Nov 2008)
<Pendulum> so you'll either get it this weekend or early next week depending on whether I get distracted by other things tonight
<Pendulum> (here's the question, if I procrastinate on the interview by working on UWN will I ultimately finish the interview to procrastinate on UWN?)
<pleia2> sounds good, thanks
<pleia2> hehe
<issyl0> Aha!
<Pendulum> issyl0: yeah, I didn't forget. I just am finding it hard to write
<issyl0> Pendulum: understandable!
<Pendulum> yeah. I avoid interview like the plague normally. I'd be better if it were live-time and I didn't have the ability to overthink it ;-)
<issyl0> Hehe
<pleia2> I did the one for omgubuntu over irc, it actually went pretty well
<pleia2> I was kinda wishing for time to think about it, but then it would have taken me foreeever
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> I just find it awkward in the same way that writing my wiki was awkward
<pleia2> yeah
<Pendulum> I'm not all that comfortable talking about what I do because I doubt other people are interested in it
<issyl0> Pendulum: of course we are!
<pleia2> yep, we are :)
<Pendulum> issyl0: but I'm boring! Really! pleia2 has met me. she can confirm.
 * Pendulum nods
<pleia2> for me that makes it easier than the wiki - for the wiki you're really trying to sell yourself and be impressive for a position (ubuntu membership, spot on a board/council. etc)
<pleia2> for the interviews - someone asked me to interview me, so at least one person wants to hear what I have to say :)
<Pendulum> yeah, I think I"m just feeling a bit like I have to prove I'm worthy of being interviewed
<pleia2> oh yeah, I still don't feel worthy
<issyl0> Pendulum: nooo
<issyl0> Pendulum: you're not boring!
<issyl0> :)
<Pendulum> tbh, I'm struggling the most with the "who are you?" question
<Pendulum> but I"ll sort it out
<valorie> isn't female socialization *wonderful*?
<valorie> leaves us feeling inadequate and unworthy
<valorie> until...... Linuxchix and Ubuntu-Women!
<valorie> etc
<Pendulum> heh
<valorie> we CAN turn it around
<Pendulum> well the "who are you?" question is a bit complicated since most people define themselves by their jobs and I've only got a week left at mine.
<Pendulum> and I don't like "traditional" labels and I don't think some of the ones I would purposefully use about myself could be printed in FCM ;-)
<pleia2> valorie :)
<valorie> hahaha, Pendulum
<valorie> perhaps you could translate into stuff that CAN be printed
<Pendulum> valorie: but that would remove the point of using the labels as I use them. Which is generally in a reclaiming way. So translating loses that.
<valorie> sex and violence can become energy
<valorie> well, true
<valorie> I hear ya
<Pendulum> to be fair I wouldn't use them in FCM anyway because I don't know the readership and I don't know if they'd "get it" or just say "well Pendulum identifies as x so why is it offensive when I use the word?"
<MarkDude> The best interviews can come from people that think they are not worthy of being interviewed. IMHO it is because they are able to talk about what is important.
<valorie> indeed
<valorie> go beyond the labels, and talk about Real Stuff
<MarkDude> & not let egos in the way. The world needs more humbleness
<Pendulum> I suspect part of my stuff is also because I"m quitting job right now and am getting loads of questions from people at what has been my major client about what I'm doing
<Pendulum> and since I"m quitting to take time off from paying work and trying to get my health under control (or at least more controled than it is), it's a very awkward conversation
<Pendulum> but at least they keep telling me to keep in touch and to e-mali them if I want any of their books!
<Pendulum> (and I didn't even have to ask and one of the people has said they're trying to get me a copy of the newest book by an author I really like before I leave. So I may have reading material for the flight next week!)
<valorie> I love that you are quitting to spend time on YOU
<valorie> you have great priorities
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-05-01
<akgraner> elky, ping
<Pendulum> akgraner: weekend off? :P
<akgraner> Pendulum,  I forgot something
<Pendulum> aww
<elky> akgraner, pong?
<akgraner> elky, did you get the email I sent re ZaReason
<elky> akgraner, yep
<akgraner> ZaReason good to go  system76 next competition
<elky> akgraner, did you see my status update from last night?
 * elky didn't get home from work until 2am. :(
<elky> so um, forgive me if I grump and lag a bit today :P
<akgraner> no I haven't looked at anything much - 2 trips to hospital with Matthew
<elky> akgraner, eep!
<akgraner> no I am the same way
<elky> lets cuddle in a corner and forget the world for the day, eh?
<akgraner> +1
<akgraner> Sunday/Monday target is good for me?
<akgraner> how about you?
<elky> I'll poke around tonight
<akgraner> k
<akgraner> great :-) thanks
<maco> akgraner, elky: zareason what?
<elky> maco, you'll find out with everyone else :P
<maco> bah ok
<valorie> ooooo secrets!
<elky> oh dear...
<elky> akgraner, you around?
<akgraner> elky, yep
<akgraner> ZaReason just added that they would also sponsor the Ubuntu Women World Play Competition :-)
<akgraner> http://akgraner.com/?p=372
<valorie> that is great news!
<valorie> She runs a good company
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-05-02
<pleia2> akgraner: great news re: zareason!
<elky> yep, i'm blogging with some clarifications now
<elky> whilst simultaneously squeeing at my new boots
<elky> so it might take a while
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I've also still been talking to cathy about shirts, this one local place does them and she said we may even get it down to like $6/shirt
<pleia2> and she liked the first design on our tshirt page
<valorie> elky, adorable boots!
<nigelbabu> czajkowski: had a good oggcamp?
<Marttin> this is my place
<nigelbabu> elky: hows the participation for the competition?
<elky> going good
<nigelbabu> nice to hear :)
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-04-26
<Pendulum> just figured UW mentoring is a project thing, not social :)
<valorie> indeed
<nigelb> my mistake :)
<pleia2> thanks Pendulum :)
<nigelb> I put the link the other channel and the discussion started there :D
<valorie> so nigel's etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DbUgROq9Nj
<valorie> I've added most of my points to it
<Pendulum> what I just brought up in channel: I wonder if there's a way to provide an option for people to pick between the formal  program and something less formal. (I'm just thinking about the fact that I'm not  doing Gnome Women mentorship program, but I am being mentored by one of the Gnome A11y  women because I don't need a formal thing, but I need someone who can be around for  informal help and point me in the right direction on stuff)
<Pendulum> (I'm also putting this on the etherpad as something to consider)
<valorie> i think that is always possible
<akk> Asking a potential mentor for help is always an option (or should be).
<pleia2> and I mentioned earlier that I already loosely mentor some folks who email me for pointers (it doesn't take a whole lot of my time, and often I can translate what I offer in help to them upstream to projects to improve their introduction docs)
<valorie> informal mentoring rocks
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> so maybe have 2 lists
<pleia2> Pendulum: maybe a list of folks who can be emailed casually, and then the more formal process?
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> that's what I was just about to say :)
<akk> It doesn't seem like formal mentorship programs do much to set up those informal relationships ... seems like those are a whole different thing.
<valorie> if we want to do an organized project, though, then it has to be organized, and have some rules
<IdleOne> I am interested in this mentoring program but I have no idea what it entails. What a mentor does or is expected to do.
<IdleOne> maybe I need a mentor to teach me mentoring
<pleia2> I think right now our mentoring program is sorta just the informal thing
<valorie> well, SoK and the way KDE uses GSoC is explicitly to set up those relationships
<Pendulum> valorie: and I think that's a good idea, I just think if we can do the formalised, but also have a list of people willing to do more informal stuff
<Pendulum> it'd be good
<valorie> in other words, it's not all about the code
<valorie> it's all about the community
<valorie> code is cream
<valorie> Pendulum +1
<Pendulum> for example, I don't have time to do formal mentoring and I have no idea about projects I could give someone, but I'm more than happy to do informal stuff
<valorie> relationships are what make Ubuntu a great place to be
<valorie> same with KDE
<pleia2> maybe what we do this cycle is flesh out and launch the informal stuff and get mentors together, and work toward having a formal process for -P ?
<pleia2> this == -O
<valorie> I was going to ask how that is named
<nigelb> Or we could start 3 months into cycle like if we can get the ground work done
<valorie> we're going to be using Natty, but this is the O-cycle?
<akgraner> Pendulum, yep I'm better about the informal stuff as well and valorie like the "it's not all about the code"
<svaksha> IdleOne: ++1 on that
<nigelb> valorie: its called by the code of what we develop
<pleia2> valorie: yeah, the cycle is named for preparing for the upcoming release (it makes more sense for developers)
<valorie> ok
<nigelb> so we'd be working on -
<nigelb> -O
<valorie> right-o
<IdleOne> svaksha: on what a mentor does or me needing a mentor? :)
<nigelb> thought userdays are named wrongly :D
<nigelb> IdleOne: I guess that means we need to flesh out a lot of things.
<pleia2> nigelb: named rightly, just not in sync with other things :)
<valorie> one important one -- is this going to be open only for women?
<nigelb> pleia2: I meant to do 'wrongly' :-)
<valorie> or for u-w members
<valorie> or anyone
<svaksha> IdleOne: on having ruls for the mentor and mentee (if that was what you were proposing). Its awkward if either dissapears or has some problems and nobody knows what is going on
<valorie> more than awkward
<pleia2> valorie: I think we want to focus on women, Ubuntu Beginners offers a broader mentoring program
<valorie> ok
<svaksha> heh
<Pendulum> I would think focus on women, but maybe have a few male mentors if needed to fill spaces where we don't have female mentors?
<valorie> do we have anyone in u-w who administers or mentors for the gnome women outreach?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<valorie> their feedback would be valuable
<svaksha> valorie: finding mentors with a solid technical base is really hard (real life issues and time required an all) so i'd suggest keeping that open
<pleia2> Pendulum: yeah, I think male mentors are fine as long as the mentee is ok with it
<valorie> perhaps they would be willing to meet with some of us
<Pendulum> pleia2: yeah.
<IdleOne> svaksha: well that is part of what I meant also. Mostly I just don't know what a UW mentor would do.
<valorie> well, if mentors write up ideas
<IdleOne> any mentor really
<nigelb> offer help, be point of contact.
<valorie> then prospective students can get some background on them
<pleia2> valorie: *nod*
<valorie> the mentor is the "teacher"
<akk> I'm not clear what these ideas are that mentors would be writing up.
<akgraner> pleia2, I can talk to Stormy about the GNOME stuff if you want
<valorie> but more like for a grad student
<pleia2> akgraner: that'd be great :)
<valorie> overseeing the work
<akk> Projects I'd love to see someone do so I'd help a mentee do them?
<nigelb> akk: Its like this. I have project A. this is what you need to do if you want to help in A. That's the Ideas.
<valorie> sec, I'll get a link to the KDE ideas page
<pleia2> eep, I need dinner
<valorie> http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2011/Ideas
<nigelb> akk: I think we have a few folks familar with GSoC, which is why there are blanks :)
<valorie> in SoC, the students can use the proposal they had for GSoC
<valorie> or come up with something better
<akk> I hope there'll be some way to say "happy to mentor any project in Python or C" or whatever.
<valorie> and we accept anyone for whom there is a willing mentor
<akk> I feel like if I list projects I'm specifically working on, then that means I won't be mentoring anyone unless they happen to have a burning interest in one of those specialized areas.
<akgraner> pleia2, I'll see f I can't schedule a call or exchange some q and a emails with her before I head to UDS...
<valorie> the projects have already given their OK on the ideas on the ideas page
<nigelb> akk: we'll probably want to say for example "i have a project which is to add more accessibility to ubiquity (the installer), it needs python and C skills, and I can help" (kindof)
<valorie> and some students come up with their own ideas
<valorie> right, nigelb
<akgraner> ideally what date would you want something sent to the list or compiled by etc....
<akk> I've had that fail before, where someone wanted help in Python and wanted a suggestion, I said I have this mapping app and would love help, she said sure ... but she just wasn't that into the problem, so it never happened.
<Pendulum> in fact, the Gnome Women was far more student-driven for project ideas (at least when I was looking at applying)
<valorie> these are merely ideas
<valorie> they can supply their own ideas
<valorie> if they can find a willing mentor
<nigelb> ok, here's the etherpad again http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DbUgROq9Nj
<nigelb> feel free to edit/add
<nigelb> I'd like to mail it to the list for more feedback
<valorie> good idea
<valorie> Asheesh is a good person to bounce stuff off of, too
<valorie> from OpenHatch
<akgraner> Asheesh rocks!
<valorie> indeed
<nigelb> paulproteus: Just FYI, we're discussing how much you rock :p
<paulproteus> erm
<paulproteus> Hello there.
<valorie> heh
<nigelb> haha
<akk> :)
 * paulproteus is posting more things to Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/gxhqh/event_a_projectdriven_introduction_to_python_for/
 * paulproteus reads scrollback.
<paulproteus> So, fwiw, I think that most "person-based" mentorship things don't work well.
<paulproteus> Project-based works great, because the mentee has the pressure on them to say, "oh I am supposed to do $THING so I have to ask for feedback, rather than meekly disappear and never talk at all"
<paulproteus> Now, you can add one-on-one relationships in the project-based mentoring.
<paulproteus> It doesn't really matter who made the project (mentee vs. mentor) so long as the mentee is committed to it.
<akk> I agree: person-based mentoring works when people find each other, but doesn't seem to work well from any official program.
<paulproteus> Right, exactly.
<valorie> I'm not sure what you mean by person-based vs. project-based
<paulproteus> Basically, it's important that you structure the program so that the mentee will not vanish into a quiet cloud of meekness.
<paulproteus> If you want it to succeed.
<valorie> exactly
<akk> valorie: "If you're a programmer and want mentoring, pick a mentor from this list" or "here's your assigned mentor whom we've matched to your needs"
<valorie> which is why involved mentors are so crucial
<paulproteus> I would also say:
<akk> valorie: Sounds like a great idea (and I'm signed up in several such programs) but it doesn't seem to work in practice.
<paulproteus> The OpenHatch site, we always dreamed, would help connect people like thsi.
<paulproteus> We never paid enough attention to the mentorship-related featureset/UI.
<paulproteus> If people dream up the UI in mockups, we will put it together.
<paulproteus> It might take us 1-3 months.
<paulproteus> But holy Jesus, there are new contributors popping up all the frickin' time. It's almost terrifying.
<valorie> are you talking about something like Scrumdo?
<akk> Or get some mentees to put it together. :)
<valorie> I know a couple of the pairs in Amarok are going to use that
<paulproteus> Another real risk you run is mentors feeling overwhelmed and burnt-out immediately.
<paulproteus> Well, not "immediately"
<svaksha> paulproteus: +1
<valorie> that's why there have to be guidelines, rules, built-in support, etc.
<valorie> there have to be admins to be mentors to the mentors
<akk> There's also a problem of both sides feeling guilty for not putting in enough time, getting busy for 3 weeks straight, etc.
<paulproteus> My initial reaction, to be honest, is "Yuck. You're creating process."
<paulproteus> akk++
<valorie> GSoC has worked well for KDE
<paulproteus> Build the system to be strong; don't create layers and layers.
<valorie> as has SoK
<paulproteus> Hint; I think GSoC is not a "built to be strong' system.
<akk> Often, both sides feel guilty thinking the other wants to put in more time and is waiting for them, not realizing the other is feeling just as guilty. :)
<paulproteus> Oh, well, KDE has Lydia to make GSoC work.
<valorie> right
<paulproteus> And even then, I don't have KDE's stats, but I don't know how good retention is.
<valorie> and now that it's getting bigger, she has a team to help her
<valorie> better than some of the other orgs
<nigelb> paulproteus: I konw it to be fairly good
<paulproteus> nigelb: Well that's flippin' sweet.
<nigelb> paulproteus: just saw a few mentors who are old gsoc students
<paulproteus> (-:
<valorie> when there is money, some people will be there for the money
<nigelb> that was just brillant :)
<valorie> all of the Amarok mentors are former gsoc students
<paulproteus> I would say, don't focus on *process* and *roles*.
<svaksha> paulproteus: process is sometimes a good thing to have
<valorie> we've lost a few
<valorie> paulproteus: we're just planning now
<paulproteus> Sure
<svaksha> agree about keeping it simple
<valorie> so that's sort of important at this stage
<paulproteus> These are my random thoughts before I should go to bed (-:
<paulproteus> You will succeed if you structure something that's built to avoid burn-out.
<nigelb> you know, now I have to summarize the random thoughts :p
<valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to paulproteus
<paulproteus> For example, say it's going to happen just this once, for 3 months, and we'll see how it goes.
<paulproteus> This isn't an Ongoing Effort in some corporate commitment kind of way; it's just this thing some people are doing.
<paulproteus> That's my advice.
<svaksha> paulproteus: yes, realistic goals with a timeframe and well-thought ideas usually achieve far more than random suggestions that the person has no time to mentor
<valorie> probably how SoK got started
<valorie> :-)
<paulproteus> You've seen http://pythonmentors.com/ maybe?
<paulproteus> valorie: Yeah (-:
<nigelb> wow, that's nice lik
<nigelb> *link
<paulproteus> They did something interesting, which is just one list -- no manual separation of mentees and mentors into one-on-ones.
<paulproteus> But it's a private list.
<paulproteus> And you reallly really really have to be nice on it.
<svaksha> paulproteus: it seems to be working :)
<svaksha> saw some patches go through
<paulproteus> Oh *awesome* svaksha!
<paulproteus> FWIW, I secretly (?) think that every $project-women project should be replaced $project-nice-people.
<akk> I like the idea of the list -- sounds a bit like the linuxchix newbies list.
<svaksha> paulproteus: but that is basically for folks with some level of python expertise
<valorie> the point about helping the code get committed is so important
<nigelb> ok, tiem to really head out. If someone can conclude the ideas onto the etherpad great. Or else, I'll do it later today
<svaksha> a newbie would be quite lost, impo
<akk> I wish there was one for helping people with python programming, not just hacking on the python core.
<paulproteus> And there should be a culture team whose point is to improve the contributor experience for nice people.
<valorie> if people work hard, and it languishes, they become bitter
<paulproteus> See also my http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asheesh.org%2Fnote%2Fdebian%2Fpost-shy.html&ei=xkG2TdbnK8LTgAfpw-Rz&usg=AFQjCNFZ1vsUE4fzfSTKeL51bzcLzyNSWw
<paulproteus> er
<paulproteus> http://www.asheesh.org/note/debian/post-shy.html
<valorie> paulproteus: someday we hope there will be no need for Ubuntu-Women
<akk> So true about getting checkins, valorie. That's a problem with a lot of GSoC projects.
<valorie> that's what the admins are for
<paulproteus> As you here surely know, I do also believe in gender-specific outreach. http://www.asheesh.org/note/software/scala-crash-course.html !
<valorie> to ping the mentors
<valorie> mentors don't like feeling alone either
<paulproteus> valorie++ # mega plus plus
<valorie> it's a love-fest!
<valorie> yes, you rock in many important ways
 * paulproteus rolls his eyes.
<valorie> heeeeeee
<paulproteus> One thing that has worked really well for RailsBridge is taking something for which there is huge demand (in their case, learning programming) and do a variant on it that is targeted at them achieving their goal.
<paulproteus> I actually think lots of mentorship is highly-demanded, so you'll do fine here. (-:
<paulproteus> Structure it to be resilient to burn-out. one-on-one mentorship efforts are uniquely poorly suited to burn-out resilience. That's my story.
<valorie> that's why we always have backup mentors
<valorie> basically, team mentorship
<paulproteus> But they won't have context, probably.
<akk> Same reason we tell newbies on IRC "Ask in the channel, don't pick one person and PM them."
<paulproteus> I think akk knows where I'm coming from. I'm off for a bit, I'm afraid!
<valorie> sleep well
<akk> g'night, paulproteus
<akk> And context comes from public discussions on the mailing list.
<akk> If other mentors can see that they can come in gradually and help each other.
<valorie> in the case of Amarok, there is an invite-only devel IRC chan
<valorie> and the students and mentors are all on there along with the rest of the devels
<valorie> so there is always someone to help
<akk> Why invite-only? Do you have a lot of troll problems?
<valorie> the main chan is for user support
<valorie> back chan for devel stuff -- although it spills to the main list too
<valorie> not trolls as much as too many repetitive questions
<svaksha> akk: probably to ensure that newbie students are not intimidated to ask silly questions if there are too many hangers on
<akk> Even though the channel is named -dev or -devel or whatever?
<akk> Interesting, I haven't usually seen a lot of user questions in dev channels.
<valorie> I'm not sure what problems they encountered in the past
<akk> I ask because it would make me think twice about trying to hack on a project's code.
<valorie> why is that?
<svaksha> why
<akk> Having to go to one channel and beg for access to the real channel would make me wonder, how much do I really care about this?
<akk> and what if I have to jump through hoops to get access to the channel?
<akk> maybe I'll just try another program and see if it works for me, and skip trying to fix this one
<valorie> questions to the devels in the main channel are answered
<valorie> if they are around
<svaksha> akk: that is one way of looking at it or maybe they want to give more attention to committed folks?
<valorie> there is no begging that I've ever seen -- people who should be there, are there
<svaksha> sometimes if the channel is too noisy it can turn off people
<valorie> we have lots of great people in the main chan to help users with their difficulties
<akk> I'm sure that's true. But it would feel that way if I was new to a project.
<valorie> if you were developing, you would be invited
<akk> That I have to come in as a supplicant before I can talk about development or lurk to hear what the devs are chatting about.
<akk> Go ahead, keep telling me I'm wrong. I'm just telling you how it would feel to me.
<valorie> I mean, I was invited
<valorie> lol
<valorie> I never asked
<valorie> no, I'm not saying you are wrong
<valorie> but that's not how I experienced it
<akk> But you probably didn't come to the project as someone trying to hack on some code.
<valorie> right
<valorie> but I've never seen anyone leave because their help was ignored
<akk> That's usually how I come to dev channels -- never been on the channel before, but I have this bug, I want to lurk and feel the culture, then decide if I can ask my question.
<valorie> the devel mail list is open
<valorie> lots of people use the forum also
<valorie> I dunno -- it seems to work for Amarok
<akk> Anyway, this is all a derailment and I didn't intend that, I was just curious because it would put me off (however wrong that might be :)
<valorie> I shouldn't have mentioned it
<valorie> you probably wouldn't have known about it unless I  mentioned it
<valorie> :(
<svaksha> valorie: agreeing to disagree == diversity
<akk> urk, now I've caused bad feelings too :(  Really didn't want to make it into an argument -- sorry!
<valorie> no, no, I just should have kept my mouth closed
<valorie> svaksha: very true
<valorie> akk knows I love her!
<akk> . o O ( whew! :)
<valorie> anyway, one of the issues I see us having is that while we want to sponsor women, we'll have to get both women and men as mentors, from lots of places
<valorie> so recruitment will be a thing
<valorie> GSoC and SoK don't have to do that
<valorie> so we should think and plan a bit
 * svaksha cant stress enough on the mentorship <-- crucial if you must, so its better we focus on getting enough technical mentors and co-mentors to avoid burnout on all sides.
<valorie> exactly
<valorie> admins and mentors are important ++
<valorie> sorry for disappearing; the old dog needed help
<valorie> svaksha, you said starting with two was a bad idea, but didn't finish talking about why
 * valorie is wondering what Gnome Women Outreach started with
<valorie> oh, we also have to have a KICK-ASS t-shirt
<akk> A good t-shirt is very important! :)
<valorie> that's how you get applicants
<valorie> :-)
<valorie> AND mentors and admins
<akk> It's funny how motivating a good t-shirt is, especially if it's a project-members-only one.
<valorie> I was just hearing a just-accepted GSoC student try to sweet-talk Nightrose into letting him do a SoK too
<valorie> for the tshirt
<valorie> lol
<svaksha> valorie: two?
<valorie> right, he wanted both shirts
<valorie> this is the one person who could pull both off, but still we can't allow it
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-04-27
<akgraner> hey all I just heard back form the GNOME Women folks - and posted the response to the list
<pleia2> thanks akgraner :)
<pleia2> valorie: and thanks for your post this morning!
<pleia2> so looks like we have lots of material to work with :)
<valorie> I hope it was understandable
<valorie> lol
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-04-30
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/track/community/ filling up fast
<nigelb> AlanBell: There is an easter egg! Look at Friday's community roundtable ;)
<Pendulum> heh
<pleia2> AlanBell: hm, our blueprint has existed for weeks and it's added to uds-o sprint, who do we need to bribe to actually get it added to the schedule?
<pleia2> the ubuntu-news blueprint is in the same position
<nigelb> pleia2: jono/jcastro
<nigelb> technically jono, since he's the track load.
<nigelb> *lad
<nigelb> bah
<nigelb> *lead
<pleia2> ok, I'll follow up with that on monday if it's not there yet
<akgraner> pleia2, I was going to kick jorge
<nigelb> haha
<nigelb> go head with that, we won't stop you :p
<pleia2> or akgraner can do it :)
<nigelb> I can hold him for ya if you want ;p
<pleia2> that should be part of the blueprint proposal how-to :) adding it to the sprint doesn't appear to be enough to get attention
<akgraner> in regards to the news one  so I'll just tack the UW on while I am at if you wantr
<Pendulum> pleia2: I usually poke jorge
<pleia2> akgraner: that would be great, thank you :)
<akgraner> Pendulum, is nicer than me - she pokes him and I kick him
<nigelb> haha
<nigelb> poor jorge
<nigelb> All the poking and kicking
<akgraner> I <3 Jorge!
<pleia2> he's been great with all my uds.ubuntu.com updates
<Pendulum> nigelb: he never did respond to my earlier poke, but I'm assuming that's because he has a non-internet life ;-)
<nigelb> Pendulum: lies! There aint such a thing!
<Pendulum> so all that really means is that I'll spend 3 hours or so on IRC in the Detroit airport ;-)
<nigelb> oh, his internet and power did go out. he posted a youtube video the other day
<nigelb> not sure if this is part of that.
<akgraner> and if you every meet jcastro and his wife jill together, make sure you make a dentist appointment b/c they are the absolute cutest and sweetest couple
<akgraner> of course I think all couples are cute and sweet compared to me and pgraner - we are just meanie heads!
<AlanBell> akgraner: I didn't get the tshirt made in time :)
<IdleOne> akgraner: long as it works for you two :)
<akgraner> I jest - it's been working for almost 19 years...I'd say we make a pretty awesome team!
<AlanBell> pleia2: thanks for picking up on my subtle hint!
<akgraner> AlanBell, where were you going to get them made at
<nigelb> what T-shirt?
<akgraner> if you have it on zazzle or something point me to the link - I'll order a couple
<AlanBell> hehe
<nigelb> AlanBell: did you take a look at the etherpad about mentoring?
<AlanBell> I did, but I didn't add anything to it at the time
<akgraner> jcastro was going to get one that said -pgraner fanboy or something  and the other one was "akgraner says pgraner is a meanie"
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> I wwant the second one
<nigelb> AlanBell: we should gift becca and matt "spawn of akgraner"
<AlanBell> nigelb: pgraner was at the UK London release party
<nigelb> AlanBell: yeah, akgraner told me :)
<akgraner> pleia2, I haven't dissected the GSoC program or the GNOME one yet have you?
<nigelb> akgraner: #spanofakgraner was /really/ good :-)
<akgraner> oh we have the shirts that say "spawn of akgraner" on the,
<nigelb> \o/
<akgraner> s/the,/them
<pleia2> akgraner: not yet
<nigelb> AlanBell: did you notice anything missing/wrong/needs-to-be-fixed
<nigelb> pleia2: I have a basic idea of GSoC. If you want someone to search how it works, I can
<AlanBell> where is the mentoring etherpad again?
<akgraner> pleia2, k - so I'll be finished with everything I am doing for the book on Tuesday.  I was going to pick it a between then and Sunday when I arrive at UDS
<nigelb> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DbUgROq9Nj
<AlanBell> it seemed OK to me I went off thinking of projects
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> one thing I think we should think of is
<akgraner> pleia2, and see what scales what doesn't look at possible funding needs etc
<nigelb> do we contact GNOME, KDE, to see if they wwant to offer projects for mentorship
<pleia2> nigelb: we're referring to the personal experience emails sent to the list with mentoring details
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2011-April/003241.html & https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2011-April/003243.html
<nigelb> pleia2: ahhh
<nigelb> Or, d we offer only Ubuntu projects
<akgraner> and come up with the here's the ideal program, here's where we are, and thoughts on going forward for people to add /subtract at UDS
<Pendulum> right. I'm off. catch y'all later/tomorrow/whenever I next have internet!
<nigelb> Pendulum: *hugs* Hope you have a fun trip :-)
<AlanBell> pleia2: add jono as the approver
<pleia2> ok
#ubuntu-women-project 2013-04-27
<pensacola_> Hi, did any of you received a confirmation/rejection e-mail from adacamp?
<pensacola_> I mean more from those with travel assistance request because the deadline for announcing the ones accepted was yesterday, April 26th.
#ubuntu-women-project 2016-04-27
<khushbu__> Hi! everbody I am new to ubuntuwomenproject
<khushbu__> Need help in getting started to contribute
#ubuntu-women-project 2016-04-28
<belkinsa> khushbu__: can you please send us an e-mail to our mailing-list introducing yourself and ask how to contribute?  You might have a better chance to get a reponse.
<belkinsa> Thank you.
#ubuntu-women-project 2018-04-29
<specialtr4> TESTING TESTING
