#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-13
<snap-l> which is why I'm working on Piddlepodder Python
<Milyardo> :source /home.ztv/zpowers//.byobu/profile
<Milyardo> :source /home.ztv/zpowers//.byobu/profile
<jrwren> is miro the one that was ipodder?
<snap-l> Democracy player
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<Wolfger> mornign
<snap-l> Apparently OCZ drives are the gold box special
<snap-l> SSD (90GB) for $100
<snap-l> but the reliability ratings are scaring me away.
<rick_h> yea, this is why I keep getting intel
<Wolfger> what, your data is important to you or something? :-p
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yeah, funny that
<rick_h> heh, don't you have backups? and for that price sholdn't you be setting up a raid 10 of them?
<Wolfger> It'd be like building your own personal cloud :-)
<snap-l> Oh, yeah, that would be awesome
<snap-l> and when they all fail, one after another, it'll be n+1 times the swearing
<rick_h> snap-l: so switched back keyboards yet?
<brousch> the sound hurting his ears?
<rick_h> hoepfully not, he took home the quiet version
<brousch> is that like a quiet jet engine?
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> we'll wait for his verdict. I told him he had to wait 3 days and so he probably made his verdict
<Wolfger> Hmm. Now the talk of RAID and SSD has me thinking... You should be able to (I would imagine) set up a RAID between SSD and HDD. Probably it would negate the performance of the SSD, but could it possibly be set up so that you get SSD performance and also HDD reliability? Basically the HDD being a slightly-laggy real-time backup of the SSD...
<rick_h> yea, so there's ways to do that. Basically it's at tha database level though
<rick_h> so what they do is set the database server to store things like indexes on a raid ssd store
<rick_h> and the mass data on spinning disks
<rick_h> and try to balanace it all out
<rick_h> but you have to have a big db for that. These days it's more about getting a machine with 60+GB of ram and just putting the whole damn db in ram on start
<Wolfger> Now that's what I'm talking about... 60GB RAM. :-D
 * Wolfger looks at his pathetic 3GB and cries
<brousch> wuss
<brousch> even my ancient crappy laptop has 4GB
<rick_h> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605518&CatId=3382
<rick_h> 128gb of ram
<brousch> how long before there's no disk drives? you just sync your ramdisk to ramdisks in the cloud
<rick_h> heh, I don't think that. Not sure you want to download 60-120gb "from the cloud" on boot
<brousch> boot? why would you turn off?
<rick_h> right, because things never go down :)
<Wolfger> well, you won't mind downloading 60-120 gb on boot when our broadband gets up to speed....
<brousch> it'll take like 30 seconds, just like it does now to boot
<jrwren> mmmm... SSD
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm still using this keyboard.
<snap-l> Going to give it a shot until Wednesday.
<rick_h> snap-l: cool, what's the opinion so far then?
<snap-l> Did a brief switch-back before the weekend because I didn't want to leave it here over the weekend
<snap-l> Um, it's nice
<snap-l> travel is quite good
<rick_h> ah, it's in the office?
<snap-l> The Logitech felt stiff afterward.
<rick_h> don't worry about that. I had the whole dock, headphones, keyboards, etc left in the office for years there
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I'm using it here because JoDee said "verboten"
<rick_h> ouch, even the quiet one?
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I know, but I'd rather not sacrifice another rick_h keyboard here. :)
<rick_h> hah!
<snap-l> rick_h: Dude, this is not quiet
<rick_h> what do you mean? That's the quietest of my mechanical keyboards
<rick_h> of the 5
<snap-l> IT's comparitively quiet, but it's not quiet
<rick_h> heh
 * snap-l should brin gin the logitech so rick_h can hear what quiet is
<snap-l> or the Apple keyboard.
<rick_h> meh, I'm not comparing to fake keyboards :P
<snap-l> false metal. ;)
<snap-l> But yeah, the Logitech trades travel for stiffness.
<snap-l> I like th feel, though
<jrwren> enough gin makes anything quiet. brin gin, I'm not sure.
<Wolfger> heheh
<brousch> i'm sure sergey has some top shelf gin
<nullspace> rage: xflock4 is busted
<snap-l> nullspace: I think anything with Rage3D is busted now
<jrwren> xflock4 ?
<jrwren> oh, xfce screensaver
<nullspace> rebooted and now it's working
<nullspace> seems like xflock is constantly getting changed
<krondor> who was in here awhile back asking for a good android pinball game?  I think I found one over the weekend.
<brousch> i think snap-l is the pinball wizard
<snap-l> I'm the pinball fan
<snap-l> but I wasn't asking for an Androind version (yet)
<krondor> hmm someone was asking about it.. oh well http://bit.ly/zcxO3y is the game review.
<krondor> they've licensed actual tables from the 80's, 90's, 00's and recreated them nicely
<Wolfger> krondor: I don't think anybody was asking... there was a discussion the other day. I think I said that video game emulations of pinball just sucked, and somebody posted a few Android app links
<Wolfger> of course, video game emulations of pinball have the sizable advantages of being cheap and portable, which actual pinball games are not :-p
<snap-l> Yeah, the console pinball arcade simulations are pretty good
<snap-l> They don't beat the actual thing, but the tradeoffs are reasonable
 * snap-l still wishes he had a Theater of Magic and Medieval Madness emulation
<snap-l> Those were two of my favorite tables
<snap-l> That and Twilight Zone
<snap-l> Really fucked up game
<Wolfger> http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/zombiemax
<snap-l> Wolfger: Seriously?
<snap-l> How do they know it works?
<snap-l> Good God, there's a major thread on-going on Ubuntu-desktop that someone started regarding "stop moving my cheese".
<rick_h> lol
<Wolfger> snap-l: well according to the ad they know it works because, well, "you haven't seen any zombies around, have you?"
<Wolfger> I think that's a great racket... sell ammo that nobody's supposed to use except on creatures that don't exist.
<Wolfger> It doesn't have to work, because if they fire it then you know they didn't follow the instructions.
<rick_h> woot! wore the ubuntu hoody and a guy running ubuntu notices
<rick_h> pointed him at the loco so good stuff
<rick_h> bah, forgot my headphones crap
<rick_h> hah! and he's a tiler. DWM fan.
<brousch> rick_h: it's like meeting a unicorn in your driveway!
<rick_h> brousch: lol definitely
<rick_h> not just an ubuntu user, but a tiling one. I guess I need to wear the hoodie more often.
<rick_h> there might be more!
<rick_h> like panning for gold
<snap-l> rick_h: Hah, that's awesome!
<rick_h> man, bad timing at the coffee house. Some make up sellers convention discussing what products they're pushing/etc
<rick_h> and I forgot my headphones...damn
<snap-l> rick_h: Ugh
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430233510 <- Buh
<rick_h> Buh?
<snap-l> That's me, getting itchy
<snap-l> Feeling my CC want to hop out of the wallet again
<snap-l> The only problem with this is most of these are established companies
<snap-l> and 10 years in the games industry is a LOOOONG time.
<Wolfger> snap-l: why do you keep your Creative Commons in your wallet?
<snap-l> Wolfger: Attribution
 * snap-l puts the book on his web shopping list
<snap-l> Problem is thes "blah blah at work" books are really reaching now
<snap-l> Venture Capitalists at Work? Women at Work?
<snap-l> I'm sure they're interesting, but the VC one has to be pretty silly.
<Wolfger> Ubuntu Volunteers at Work
<snap-l> Nah, we just sit around and bitch. :)
<Wolfger> Snarky Hackers at Work
<Wolfger> Delusional Wannabes at Work
<snap-l> heh
<Wolfger> Freetards at Work
<Wolfger> this series is a gold mine
<Wolfger> :-)
<rick_h> heh
<Wolfger> it's like "For Dummies". Just think up a * to put in front of it, write it, ..., Profit!
<Wolfger> Drain Unclogging For Dummies. You laugh now, but that book will sell. :-p
<brousch> I like Freetards at Work
<brousch> "How to push your socialist software agenda while  serving your corporate overloards"
<rick_h> <3 it! http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-02-11/
<snap-l> rick_h: :)
<Wolfger> rick_h++
<rick_h> heh, local paper asked me what I thought of the wing's record jcastro
<jcastro> what did you say?
<rick_h> that it was awesome, represent detroit, but want to see the Cup coming home so don't stop winning
<brousch> "The wing has an excellent record when it comes to self-powered flight. I much prefer it to the rotor."
<rick_h> oh shush
<rick_h> west siders...wtf
<brousch> we have many rabid sports fans here
<Wolfger> well, with any luck, one of them will bite you ;-)
<Wolfger> sports-rabies. LOL
<_stink_> they just all like Chicago teams over there.
<brousch> it is a distinct possibility
<rick_h> mmm, chicago
<brousch> _stink_: not in grand rapids, but once you get down to Niles that is true
<Wolfger> Bears suck, go Lions!
<rick_h> I should be a blackhawks fan, but I didn't get into hockey at all until college
<rick_h> Wolfger: umm yea...
<_stink_> brousch: it was like 50-50 in kzoo
<brousch> which is half way between grand rapids and niles
<_stink_> the world makes sense!!
<brousch> math works!
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h> hah, I want you see you use that in a mathematical proof
<rick_h> "well, chi/dtw fans are split 50/50 here...therefore
<Wolfger> <headdesk>
<Wolfger> though it would be interesting to map the US from a sports fan perspective
<_stink_> i may have seen something like that before
<Wolfger> red pins where each major league stadium is, then show the population of this-team-fan vs that-team-fan vs don't-care
<_stink_> yeah
<Wolfger> it would get real interesting in places that have multiple teams in the same stadium (Jet/Giants?) or very close to one another.
<Wolfger> from what I understand, there's no such thing as a fan who like both the Cubs and the White Sox
<_stink_> what i remember most was how geographically isolated teams held large areas... like the Cowboys up into the plains
<brousch> hm, a python book from beazley coming out in a week or so. http://www.amazon.com/Python-Cookbook-Oreilly-Cookbooks-Brian/dp/1449378722/ref=zg_bsnr_285856_2
<brousch> omg it is 800 pages
<rick_h> yea, finally reworking the cookbook
 * rick_h gets on this one
<brousch> i have not finished any technical book over 500 pages
<rick_h> it's a cookbook
<rick_h> half of it you'll not know wtf to do with anyway
<brousch> i suppose
<rick_h> drop the "processing XML" part nad you'll get odwnto 500 pages :P
<rick_h> ooh, on my birthday! Guess I know what I'm getting
<Wolfger> :-)
 * Wolfger orders Learning Perl for rick_h
<rick_h> heh, I've been waiting for that cookbook. The old one never got updated past 2.3 or 2.4
<Wolfger> http://goo.gl/uvJFc
<snap-l> Wolfger: Hahahahahaha
<snap-l> USN 1358-1 fixed multiple vulnerabilities in PHP. The fix for
<snap-l> CVE-2012-0831 introduced a regression where the state of the
<snap-l> magic_quotes_gpc setting was not correctly reflected when calling
<snap-l> the ini_get() function.
<snap-l> (*sigh*)
<rick_h> wheeee
<snap-l> PHP: where the fixes have security holes.
<rick_h> job security
<brousch> hm, heroku wants a little different project/venv setup than i've been using
<rick_h> run away!
<snap-l> rick_h: Well, at least something in PHP-ville is secure. :)
<rick_h> Blazeix: you know the best way to go playing with mouse button settings in awesome?
<rick_h> wonder if xmodmap works for those
<snap-l> ho boy
 * snap-l preps for the super-chording mousebutton shennanigans
<rick_h> bah, this is nuts. I'll end up just ditching a mouse
<snap-l> rick_h: Getting a joystick instead?
<brousch> hm, apparently i'm supposed to use S3 to serve my static files in heroku?
<snap-l> rick_h: http://www.atarimagazines.com/v8n2/diamondsystem.html <- here you go
<brousch> ah, i can use whatever i want to serve the static files
<brousch> like my dreamhost account
<snap-l> rick_h: Where the hell did you find a mouse with no middle click?
<snap-l> or did you go with one of those newfangled Microsoft mice?
<rick_h> snap-l: I'm trying out lmorchard's fav trackball vs my own trackman fav
<rick_h> and it doesn't have a middle click, by default the two extra buttons are next/prev in browser
<rick_h> but not middle click, which if you're used to linux copy/paste ugh
<lmorchard> Hmm, yeah, it's probably been 10 years or so since I last used that trackball on linux :/
<lmorchard> and I have the buttons configured for pgup/pgdn because there's no scrollwheel
<lmorchard> It's definitely not as full-featured as the wireless version, next model up.
<brousch> it lives on heroku! http://furious-fog-2524.herokuapp.com/
<rick_h> lmorchard: yea, not sure I'll get used to it. I'll have to figure out how best to configure hte buttons sans gnome setting stuff
<rick_h> brousch: nice!
<snap-l> rick_h: who is your peripheral pusher?
<snap-l> Sheesh. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: :P
<rick_h> anything in the chase for more comfortable working environemtn to keep the work going
<snap-l> Is this a Logitech Trackball you're using?
<snap-l> Or the Kensington?
<rick_h> logitech
<rick_h> never cared for much kensington stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, friend had the Kensington that he used
<snap-l> only advantage was you could use a pool cue-ball as a drop-in replacement.
<rick_h> heh
<lmorchard> Ah, yeah, I do have Logitech's mouse management warez installed on win and mac
<snap-l> and could use it for playing Centipede / Millipede.
<brousch> ah, you can rename your heroku apps http://grpugwebsite2.herokuapp.com/
<rick_h> lmorchard: yea, no biggie. I'll try to see if I can get used to the ball, if so maybe hte wireless upgrade with the real scrollbar will be something to check into
<rick_h> brousch: nice
<rick_h> now I'm jealous, not had time to try out anything on heroku
<rick_h> brousch: https://github.com/heroku/heroku.py hit the wire yesterday
<rick_h> brousch: might be useful if you start automating scripting stuff, especially with fabric or anything
<snap-l> Honestly, I'm addicted to the scrollwheel.
<brousch> it's less of a mess than GAE
<rick_h> brousch: yea, that's my impression
<brousch> less of a hack i should say
<rick_h> and more portable
<brousch> yeah, basically no changes needed to my django app
<brousch> heroku appends database stuff to your settings.py so you don't have to worry about that part at all
<rick_h> and it's pgsql! yay
<brousch> and you can run one-off commands on the heroku server for things like data loading
<rick_h> now brousch can come out to CHC long edition and give up a heroku talk!
<snap-l> probably the CHC long-distance edition
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> Maybe we could use Big Blue Button. ;)
 * rick_h send the slap-bot to morpace's offices
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> i would get beaten up for using django
<brousch> now to see if i can get dreamhost to reroute GAE power to the heroku shields
<snap-l> brousch: Eh?
<brousch> change where grpug.org points
<brousch> darn slow dns propogation
<snap-l> brousch: That's kind of the point. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-14
<Blazeix> rick_h: did you see this go by? http://javascriptjabber.com/004-jsj-backbone-js-with-jeremy-ashkenas/
<Blazeix> know you're not 100% in the backbone camp, but there are some neat topics
<rick_h> Blazeix: I saw someone reference the podcast, but hadn't looked at the topics/etc
 * rick_h adds it to give a listen
<tjagoda> wokawoka
<rick_h> that good eh?
<snap-l> oy
<jcastro> rick_h: I trolled you in my latest blog
<tjagoda> lol
<rick_h> jcastro: hah! /me runs to look
<rick_h> jcastro: oh boo. You don't have to learn vim (but you should) it's the cmd line I don't think everyone should be excused from :0
<jcastro> But I do know vim!
<jcastro> all the antipatterns anyway
<jcastro> :)
<brousch> vim is awesome
<brousch> i am addicted
<rick_h> brousch: :)
<brousch> now i feel crippled when another editor pops up
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK_iIPly3mM&feature=relmfu
<brousch> is evernote broken?
<snap-l> Don't use it, so not sure.
<rick_h> morning party people
<brousch> in the place to be
<brousch> car shopping today. wife decided subaru impreza, legacy, outback, or forester
<rick_h> outback ftw
<brousch> well the only outback in our price range is a 2004
<brousch> and it's out in grand haven, about 45mins away
<rick_h> ah
<brousch> i should say in our price and mileage range
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/KMydFP0CsRH2lVVAS8C1/
<snap-l> Haf of me wants to sell him every OMC episode for 1 billion dollars each
<rick_h> booo, always do upgrades in a screen session :/
<snap-l> rick_h: Session tanked overnight?
<rick_h> did an upgrade, left it alone, couldn't get the display back up at all
<rick_h> so rebooted, only now things are hosed and won't boot
<snap-l> lovely
<rick_h> yep, guessing the upgrade stalled and asked for something and I rebooted with it incomplete
<brousch> rick_h: what blew up?
<rick_h> brousch: my precise desktop
<brousch> doh
<rick_h> yea
<brousch> dogfood not so good :(
<rick_h> naw, it's just a result of the desktop not getting love nad being stacked over on synergy
<rick_h> and I ran the update without following it until the next day
<rick_h> meh, not totally surprised I guess. I even thought about ssh'ing into the machine when the screen didn't come back. I shold have killed the update and restarted it from the ssh term but didn't
<rick_h> moron move on my end
<rick_h> fortunately it wasn't doing anything except acting as another screen to run browsers on
<rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9271222/sqlalchemy-insert-millions-data-inenficiency
<rick_h> *sigh*
<rick_h> the stupid is high today
<tjagoda> I live for facebook updates about the strange things brousch's son says.
<tjagoda> iLol'd.
<rick_h> facebook? that thing's still around? :P
<brousch> tjagoda: apparently he has a following at my wife's work too
<tjagoda> Without facebook how would I be kept in the loop about George's antics?
<brousch> rick_h: it's where you go to argue about evolution and post funny quotes from your kids
<tjagoda> Surely nobody else has cracked this social technology?!
<rick_h> tjagoda: haven't you need the meme? You're supposed to publish videos on a blog named "sh!t my son says"
<rick_h> or a twitter account like darth vader :)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> hm, a fake rick_h twitter account
<tjagoda> "@rick__H: I love quiet keyboards!"
<tjagoda> "@rick__H: I do all my coding in OpenOffice writer!"
<rick_h> heh, I answered that reddit already today :P
<brousch> If you can hear the rap music over the sound of your typing, you need new springs on your keyboard
<tjagoda> wtf, seriously?  OO.o coding?
<rick_h> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/porwg/your_python_editor_of_choice/
<tjagoda> The original question is not as stupid as I was hoping it would be.
<rick_h> http://blog.monitis.com/index.php/2012/02/13/python-performance-tips-part-1/
<tjagoda> Is Launchpad done primarily in Python?
<rick_h> yes
<brousch> rick_h: do you use gunicorn on bookie?
<snap-l> GOod morning again from the other side of the screen. :)
<rick_h> brousch: the dev server when you run " make run_dev" uses it
<rick_h> brousch: but bmark.us is deployed with uwsgi + nginx
<brousch> gunicorn worked easily on heroku
<tjagoda> No wonder its so damn slow! =P
<rick_h> brousch: cool
<rick_h> I'd have figured they'd run your wsgi app itself vs proxying but ok
<brousch> heh sqlalchemy insertion guy is doing it on windows
<brousch> found your bottleneck!
<rick_h> naw, but writing out an answer about how transations work and all that will be too much work
<rick_h> and the answer should be "use your damn db import mechanism"
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh God yes
<snap-l> What do you want to bet he / she is using SQLite as well. :)
<tjagoda> Have not heard anything from Geek.net yet
<tjagoda>  /sadtrombone
<brousch> snap-l: i think i saw a My in there, so probably mysql
<snap-l> tjagoda: It may take some time
<snap-l> brousch: That's not much of an improvement. :)
<tjagoda> snap-l: Are you inferring that the universe does not revolve around me personally?
<tjagoda> If you are, I am not a fan of this inference. =(
<snap-l> tjagoda: Hate to break it to you, but you're just an extra in my play.
<tjagoda> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<snap-l> Rocking the morning with Mc 900ft Jesus - Truth is out of style.
<tjagoda> I was reading the Geek.net financial statements sunday
<tjagoda> Shit hit the fan for them in 2010
<tjagoda> No wonder that they restructured
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<snap-l> I'm not mad at them for laying me off
<tjagoda> Would it be acceptable to wallpaper this as a mural in my office?
<tjagoda> http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425989_10150560104462198_728877197_9231165_60585187_n.jpg
<rick_h> think you're going to want a larger res image
<rick_h> and you can forget picking up any ladies from the office I think :)
<tjagoda> Or only the RIGHT ladies.
<rick_h> heh
<tjagoda> I love that my Boss believes he is an awesome communicator
<tjagoda> when in reality he is terrible
<tjagoda> Reason #467 which makes this a stress-free workplace!
<tjagoda> PLZ HIRE ME GEEKNET
<tjagoda> WILL WORK FOR CARDBOARD BOXES
<snap-l> tjagoda: Oh, he's no Winston Churchill?
<tjagoda> The opposite of Winston Churchill
<tjagoda> Impossible to tell when he's angry because his voice does not change, takes 20 minutes to say something that should be 5 words, forgets to tell me when meeting times change
<tjagoda> etc.
<tjagoda> Also bad at the hearing part of listening
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> "This will take four months."
<tjagoda> "So are we looking at 2 or 3 months?"
<tjagoda> "...This will take four months."
<rick_h> that's just the manager in him.
<rick_h> "ok, so what you mean is that if I manage you well it can be half that. Nothing can possibly take 4 months to do"
<tjagoda> Thats actually step two
<tjagoda> Step one is just getting him to hear the same words you said
<tjagoda> Step two is him then doing the manager =(
<snap-l> "Claim your 300% Euro today - offer expires at midnight."
<tjagoda> Its like double-manager psychology
<snap-l> What's the exchange rate on 300% nowadays?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Doing the manager?
<snap-l> Is that a dance move, or an aspiration? :)
<tjagoda> I found on ebay last night that my Lego Millennium Falcon increased in value by 125%
<tjagoda> Thus marking my first awesome purchase ever
<snap-l> tjagoda: Completed auctions, or buy it now shennanigans?
<tjagoda> Completed auctions
<snap-l> Nice!
<tjagoda> People bidding in 4-digit sums, ridiculous
<snap-l> Damn
<snap-l> Tried to convince JoDee that a Lego Tie Fighter was a reasonable purchase
<snap-l> I don't think she bought it
<tjagoda> http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Collectors-Millennium-Falcon/dp/B000WLW3W0
<tjagoda> I promise you I paid nowhere near that sum
<snap-l> Amazon is ridiculous for OOP stuff
<tjagoda> The Ebay prices are a bit lower
<tjagoda> in the 1200-1400 range
<snap-l> someone marks something as a collectible, and pretty soon it's going for 500% above retail
<jrwren> why didn't anyone tell me that pypy is so awesome?
<rick_h> jrwren: because we didn't know you had cpu bound python2 problems?
<snap-l> Honestly, if Amazon doesn't ship it from their warehouse, I'm more reluctant to purchase it
<rick_h> snap-l: +1
<jrwren> +1
<snap-l> Which is humorous because I sell stuff on Amazon all the time. :)
<jrwren> you do?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, mostly used books and shit
<jrwren> cool
 * snap-l is a long-time ebayer too, but don't sell there anymore
<snap-l> They kept jerking around sellers
<snap-l> Last straw was witholding payments if you didn't do X number of transactions per month or something
<tjagoda> I like to think that people named "Regan" were named in some kind of honorary tribute to the former President Ronald Reagan.
<snap-l> I don't remember what it was offhand, but it essentially meant they'd keep the money for a while if you weren't blowing out massive amounts of transactions per month
<tjagoda> Or as you may have heard him colloquially referred to within the Republican party, "Jesus."
<snap-l> which is anathema to someone who sells maybe 2 items per month online
<snap-l> tjagoda: I love how Regan is revered in the Republican partyh.
<tjagoda> Like an elevation to Sainthood
<rick_h> jrwren: what are you doing with pypy?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Pretty much
<tjagoda> I think
<tjagoda> that it is taco bell o-clock.
<tjagoda> afk lunch
<jrwren> nothing.
<jrwren> but i just finally heard a desc of pypy more than just "python in python"
<jrwren> i had no idea there was a native machine jitter
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's pretty cool if you've got some cpu heavy stuff
<jrwren> it sounds awesome.
<jrwren> and has stackless options.
<rick_h> it's done wonders for the native python implementation of libraries
<jrwren> makes me want to try out a stackless greenlet-per-request server on it.
<rick_h> heh
<jrwren> well, ctypes are awesome.
<rick_h> anyone tried https://github.com/scrooloose/syntastic
<snap-l> rick_h: Not yet, but looks pretty interesting.
<tjagoda> I like how terrified users get when I access the windows share and they realize I can inspect their entire PC at any time
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> I used to get that when I took over their terminal server sessions
<rick_h> nothing like taking over their mouse and clicking wherever the #@$#@ you feel like in front of them, especially when they're remote
<tjagoda> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/rick-santorum-edges-mitt-romney-race-gop-presidential-nomination-poll-article-1.1022265?localLinksEnabled=false
<tjagoda> As if Republicans weren't unlikely enough to win already
<jrwren> wtf do people think when they are on a corporate networK?
<snap-l> And this is why I use SSH tunnels whenever possible
<jrwren> i used to remove domain admins from my local administrator group to try to prevent some of that, but I know as an AD joined machine, they can apply a GPO at any time to add it back.
<tjagoda> When they're on a corporate network on corporate machines
<jrwren> what I'm not sure about is if GPO can be applied without a reboot or relogin
<snap-l> It's not that I do things that I think need to be private, it's because I don't like to broadcast what I'm doing.
<snap-l> http://avinashsingh.wordpress.com/2007/04/05/a-myth-called-the-indian-programmer/
<snap-l> Pretty broad strokes, but mirrors some of my experience.
<snap-l> That said, we did get some very bright folks over at Chrysler.
<jrwren> its a b.s. difference between "programmers" and "coders"
<jrwren> IME there is no difference.
<jrwren> the premise on which his post is written is a falacy
<jrwren> that said, I completely understand what he is saying :)
<snap-l> Yeah, the terminology is a bit wonky
<snap-l> It's a little disturbing that the term Coder is somehow the more derogatory form of programmer
<jrwren> its not in my book.
<snap-l> I think it is up to us to rectify that and come  up with more derogatory terms
<snap-l> keyboard jockey, perhaps?
<jrwren> a top knoch coder is worth a ton
<jrwren> but IME great coders are also architects.
<snap-l> jcastro: Your post on "Your search sucks" is getting attention
<jcastro> snap-l: it's on the reddit front page!
<jcastro> good way to test me new blog, heh
<rick_h> jcastro: do you have any stats on the new blog?
<rick_h> just setup GA on it or something?
<jcastro> I do
<jcastro> in realtime. :)
<rick_h> heh
<jcastro> 75 people on right now
<rick_h> ok dammit, I can't get that syntastic to do auto checking, but runs manuall
<rick_h> grrrrr
<jcastro> I either have realtime or from yesterday, not today as a while
<rick_h> right
<jrwren> how did you do that?
<jrwren> build on GAE or something?
<jcastro> just using normal google analytics
<rick_h> GA has realtime beta stats now
<jcastro> the realtime is beta
<jcastro> it's pretty awesome
<jrwren> ah, i see
<snap-l> IT's not so awesome when you don't have people on your site. :)
<jcastro> well, I certainly wasn't expecting a redditing
<snap-l> jcastro: It's part of the Ubuntu Conspiracy
<jcastro> S3 delivers!
<jcastro> oh wait ... so much for being cheaper
<snap-l> See, you moved to the cloud stuff and THEN posted your most throught-provoking post yet.
<jcastro> get redditted the first day out the door
<snap-l> jcastro: Well, at least you're not trying to scale Tumblr
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> and releasing the tumblebeasts
<snap-l> Apparently 1.4G takes a while to import into a MySQL database. ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: did you turn off logging first?
<snap-l> no, because I'm an idiot.
<snap-l> Actually, it's not turned on by default in 5.1
<snap-l> I think they wised up
<rick_h> ah, yea should be able to turn off loggin, transactions, and crank an import pretty quick
<snap-l> Unfortunately  I'm an hour into this
<snap-l> so I'm loathe to stop it on the off-chance that it's 90% done
<snap-l> And now that i look at how  it's handling this (ls -al), I'm going to cut bait.
<jrwren> snap-l: we have a problem.
<jrwren> i'm going to be out of state weekend of global bug jam.
<jrwren> unless i have wrong day.
<snap-l> March 3-5?
<snap-l> jrwren: ^^
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> i'm pinging coworkers to see if someone can facilitate
<jrwren> i can't beleive i messed this up
<jrwren> we were looking at saturday noon to 5p, right?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah
<snap-l> Don't be hard on yourself. :)
<jrwren> gmail or decafbad ?
<snap-l> decafbad, please
<jrwren> damn, used gmail
<jrwren> sorry
<jrwren> err... no... was waiting to hear back before I hit send.
<jrwren> craig@ right?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> That's OK, though - gmail forwards to decafb
<snap-l> as
<snap-l> bah, decafbad
<snap-l> jrwren: Did you send something to gmail? I've not received it
<jrwren> nah, had your email in the email to my coworkers in case they want to contact you
<snap-l> OK, no worries.
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<jrwren> no LVM option in the default installer :(
<jrwren> I didn't realize this.
<jrwren> i'm nub
<snap-l> Yeah, you'll be better off using  the alternate installer
<jrwren> i'll testdrive that next :)
<brousch> 2009 subaru forester
<jrwren> sounds expensive
<tjagoda> Sounds Asian!
 * tjagoda has fierce Chrysler loyalty =(
<jrwren> always or just since they are italian?
<tjagoda> Hey, man, its only 51%. ='(
<rick_h> brousch: coolness
<jcastro> rick_h: 6 cents
<jcastro> that's what my blog has cost me after reddit today
<Blazeix> send them a bill
<rick_h> jcastro: :0
<rick_h> :)
<brousch> jcastro: only $14,000
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-15
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> hello DotD, I think I'll be buying you today
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> That was just released, wasn't it?
<snap-l> The DotD
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I was waiting for it to come out
<rick_h> so even better, clear off the wishlist at 50% off
<snap-l> Yeah, I believe O'Reilly has figured out this impulse buy thing. :)
<mydogsnameisrudy> buy now pay later
<rick_h> this is depressing: link from canonical voices http://cityblogger.com/archives/2012/02/15/which-is-less-expensive-amazon-or-self-hosted
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> Machine Learning? rick_h is going to bring Skynet down upon us... :-(
<rick_h> that's the plan!
<rick_h> that's what bookie is, my attempt to build skynet
<Wolfger> Ahnold will find Sarah Connor via her web surfing habits.
<snap-l> rick_h: IS the gigaom link depressing?
<rick_h> the cityblogger thing is' like 80% ads on the page. THe content is squished to the left 5 words wide
<rick_h> and this is from a canonical employee sharing on the planet like that
<rick_h> just depressing it's so giant ad heavy
<brousch> gotta pay the bills yo
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, I have adblocker installed, so I didn't see it. :)
<snap-l> And yes, that was pretty light on content (on both counts)
<rick_h> ah, I try to run without, just flash block so that I don't go total freetard on the net
<snap-l> No, not noscript, adblock. :)
<snap-l> Makes visiting places like detnews.com livable
<brousch> also essential on my phone
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ppre5/the_new_d_online_forum_software_written_in_d/ <- Apparently NNTP Is making a comeback
<snap-l> And I for one would love to see NNTP everywhere.
<nullspace> snap-l: so how goes the new job?
<snap-l> nullspace: I'm not ready to throttle rick_h yet. :)
<rick_h> only because they've not made him work on my code :P
<nullspace> nice
<snap-l> I'm enjoying it so far, but I'm now digging into some of the data loading scripts
<snap-l> and excel can die in a dire
<snap-l> fire, even
<rick_h> ugh
<nullspace> what are you using to parse it?
<snap-l> Well, it's already being parsed
<snap-l> but I'd like to come up with a better way to detect it, and parse it
<snap-l> Python handles two out of the three formats that I've seen pretty cleanly.
<snap-l> but there's no "one-true-XLS" parser out there.
<nullspace> we are about to break into that ourselves but we are going with an apache foundation project
<snap-l> nullspace: Which project?
<nullspace> I think POI
<snap-l> Oh, purdy
<nullspace> we are already using it to write to excel and it's awesome, well as awesome as one can get with writing to excel
<snap-l> Java API for MIcrosoft documents
<nullspace> it's always a messy job
<snap-l> I think I just wretched a bit in my mouth
<brousch> snap-l: i've had good luck with xlrd
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, and the openpyxlst (sp?) looks very nice
<nullspace> snap-l: if you saw our how fast our pages run you'd not be wreching
<snap-l> there's apparently a straight XML (non-zipped) format that Excel upchucks which unfortunately doesn't have a module that can handle it
<snap-l> nullspace: Java API for MS Documents is wretch-worthy. :)
<brousch> switch everyone to openoffice ;)
<snap-l> It's like coating a plate of shit with maggots. :)
<snap-l> brousch: Were that I were king, this would be a non-issue
<snap-l> ODF, or to the gallows with you.
<nullspace> snap-l: if maggots and shot tasted like steak then you might be right
<snap-l> nullspace: IF you're hungry enough, anything can taste good. :)
<nullspace> the entire report generating file is only 230 lines
<nullspace> snap-l: so what is that you against java again?
<snap-l> nullspace: I'm not a fan, no
<rick_h> wait, did someone ask for a bitch list against java?
<nullspace> why exactly, I'm not trying to convert
<rick_h> this is going to take a while...how many pages max do I get?
<brousch> rick_h: please use a pastebin
<rick_h> brousch: think of the web servers please, accepting that many MB over POST is going to hurt!
<nullspace> rick_h: you know your phone is running java right?
<rick_h> nullspace: yep! and I've not written a single program for my phone that wasn't python + web :)
<rick_h> nullspace: you know your linux install runs C right? Surely you should be writing all things in C!
<snap-l> nullspace: The biggest current reason is that Oracle controls the fate of Java.
<rick_h> ooh, I like these types of arguments, what's next?
<nullspace> rick_h: not what I'm saying
<snap-l> so it's impossible to distribute Sun's Java without going through Oracle
<rick_h> no, biggest current reason is that it's a bear to code in and a pita to work with
<snap-l> And the only other recourse is to distribute Open JDK
<rick_h> it's like ergonomics, sure people get by with crap chairs, but man, a nice chair sure makes the work day better
<nullspace> snap-l: I was attrached by the overwhelming number of apache projects and most are in java
<snap-l> nullspace: That's great for you. :)
<snap-l> Every time I've waded inthe Java pool, I feel disgusted
<rick_h> and I hear that most MS projects are written in C#, and most github projects are in ruby
<rick_h> ooh, another fun one. You noticed that communities seem to stick around the same ideas.
<nullspace> rick_h: makes sense that communities would do that
<brousch> estimated monstly cost for the grpug site on heroku is still $0
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> brousch: Very cool
<rick_h> brousch: woot
<snap-l> Let me put that up on reddit. :)
<brousch> heh
 * brousch starts looking into caching
<nullspace> snap-l: yes the thought that oracle could do a number of things that would poision Java but I see all those as means to loose money and have people quickly abandon the platform
<snap-l> nullspace: s/could/are doing/
<snap-l> Sorry, is doing.
<nullspace> I have yet to see that
<nullspace> maybe I missed an article
<snap-l> Patent lawsuit against Google for Dalvek
<snap-l> Revoking the OSS distribution license.
<nullspace> hmm looks like a money grab, I think oracle will loose on that one
<snap-l> nullspace: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/java-to-be-removed-from-ubuntu-uninstalled-from-user-machines/
<snap-l> I think this is just the tip of the iceberg
<snap-l> Oracle does not know how to be a nice OSS citizen
<nullspace> snap-l: I think to understand Ellison you have to be just as crazy as him
<brousch> s/crazy/greedy/
<nullspace> brousch: no he is crazy
<snap-l> Right, so why would I want to buy into an ecosystem that requires me to be a man that I despise?
<snap-l> When the language isn't that hot to begin with, and the only compelling part is the JVM?
<brousch> you don't have to understand him to use his stuff, you just have to pay him
<snap-l> I don't need to hit my hand with a hammer every morning to remember that it hurts.
<brousch> pay fo what you use, you damn freetard!
<snap-l> The only saving grace is that Sun in it's dying throes OSSesd a lot of stuff
<snap-l> So now we have Libreoffice, a dozen+ MySQL forks, and VirtualBox OSE
<snap-l> and OpenJDK
<nullspace> OpenJDK seems to be working just fine for us
<jrwren> i just bought a usb tv device with no linux support. i fail.
<rick_h> you're supposed to ask devin for the right one first
<rick_h> since he makes/made them and all that
<brousch> jrwren: as punishment you must feed, clothe, bathe, and house RMS for 1 week
<rick_h> where did I put mine hmmm
<jrwren> rick_h: i read that gigom article yesterday. I found it lacking on lots of points.
<snap-l> jrwren: Gee, a tech news site with lacking points?
<snap-l> jrwren: TO THE BLOGS, BATMAN!
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I liked when aws put out their reply and cut the costss more
<rick_h> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html
<snap-l> Anyone else find it a titch ironic that AWS is using typepad?
<rick_h> no, they build servers, not blogging platforms :)
<rick_h> and maybe typepad is a customer?
<snap-l> maybe.
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> probably
<snap-l> rick_h: But they should be scaling the shit out of a Wordpress instance. :)
<jrwren> ok... color me impressed... those D forums pages to load fast.
<jrwren> probably not as much becuase of D as it is developers attn to detail
<jrwren> but I like it.
<snap-l> "AND LOOK, WE'RE NOT EVEN USING FASTCGI"
<snap-l> I wish all forum software used NNTP
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> they aren't using fastcgi? they should be.
<snap-l> jrwren: That's the power of Amazon AWS
<jrwren> how so?
<jrwren> maybe they are using mod_d
<snap-l> (I'm being facetious)
<snap-l> You moved on to the D forums before I finished my "Amazon scaling the shit out of a wordpress install"
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> i see.
<jrwren> yeah... shit AWS can't do... scale the shit out of a wordpress install :)
<nullspace> snap-l: I consider you lucky that you don't have to support both xls and xlsx, we have a bunch of Asian distributors that still use office XP
<rick_h> nullspace: oh he does :)
<nullspace> ouch
<snap-l> nullspace: That's the point. I have to support three different formats.
<snap-l> xls blobs, xls XML, and xlsx.
<nullspace> xls is the real bitch
<brousch> you can't require them to send you something reasonable?
<snap-l> brousch: This is a customer site. :)
<snap-l> This is "reasonable"
<jrwren> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html  I like the "No Administrative Costs" point the best :)
<nullspace> brousch: all they see is values, they have no idea what is takes to move it from one place to another
<brousch> only accept CSV or something
<snap-l> brousch: See above.
<rick_h> yea, they love to send around 20 sheet workbooks
<jrwren> seems like someone could make a few bucks (and only a few bucks) a month doing a conversion service. e.g. you send the web service an xls and it sends you back... openoffice format, or xlsx or csv
<snap-l> jrwren: I'd be happy if it sent back a mysql dump
<jrwren> table per sheet ?
<snap-l> and when I'm king, there will be no data exports, only database connections.
<brousch> adam williams in the grpug has an extensive system for converting those things
<jrwren> should it expand the formula or just send you formula as values?
<jrwren> and when I'm king, there will be no database connections, only well documented rest services
<snap-l> jrwren: Long live the king
<brousch> he's made it so he can create a template for each customer format and then handle it the same way
<snap-l> brousch: That's awesome, save for this is just one customer. :)
<brousch> ah
<brousch> he processes data from hundreds of vendors so he created a generalized solution
<snap-l> And that's wise.
<snap-l> I found one python magic script that looked promising
<snap-l> save for everything came back as "data"
<snap-l> Ah, here's another one
 * snap-l gleefully wants to have "import magic" at the top of this file. :)
<snap-l> BREAKING: Random Ubuntu developer asks followers for restaurant suggestions. By unanimity, decides to eat on "Unity sucks, I hope you die!" -- FOSSNews
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<Blazeix> a distant second was "Why did you kill Kubuntu!?"
<ColonelPanic001> >: - |
<brousch>  /join kubuntu-us-mi
<brousch> oops
<Wolfger> brousch: why did you leave the channel?
<brousch> because it was a bad joke :P
<brousch> no need to fork yet
<Wolfger> There's 2 of us in there. Come join the fun :-)
<Wolfger> why does Firefox keep throwing twitter.com cert exception errors at me, regardless of the fact I don't have any twitter-related windows open?
<Wolfger> I wiped my history, cookies, and cache...
<brousch> your company is MitMing you
<Wolfger> MitMing?
<Wolfger> oh
<brousch> man in the middle
<Wolfger> well yeah, but why would FF even be trying to get to twitter?
<brousch> to autotweet every page you visit to the IT department
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> unlikely
<Wolfger> Twitter was suddenly un-verboten last week when they wanted us to go vote on the Chrysler ads for best Super Bowl commercial...
<Wolfger> and now it's verboten again, so the MitM attack on twitter, FB, etc is back in place
<Wolfger> but that should not (and never previously did) affect me when I'm just on Gmail and IRCCloud
<snap-l> Wolfger: Seriously? That's pathetic.
<Wolfger> snap-l: what, the "go vote for us please"? Yeah...
<Wolfger> we were even encouraged to vote multiple times
<Wolfger> stuff those ballot boxes, guys
<snap-l> Yeah, because nobody will notice all of these votes coming from chrysler.com
<snap-l> If there is a soundtrack that makes me want to program, it's the Tron soundtrack (from 1982)
<jrwren> Wolfger: its probably every page you visit pinging back to twitter to prep for those "tweet this" tags on the page.
<jrwren> facebook does the samething.
<jrwren> its one of many reasons i run noscript
<snap-l> Yeah, those dippy little bugs / tags are a PITA
<snap-l> funny to see the designers that plan for it, and the ones that don't.
<tjagoda> Woot
<tjagoda> Sysadmin Opening @ Canonical
<snap-l> Yeah, saw that
<tjagoda> CANONICAL, I WILL HAVE YOU
<jrwren> why do you want to work for canonical?
<brousch> all the cool kids are doing it
<tjagoda> Canonical is changing the face of teh linuks
<tjagoda> I am a fan of working diligently in support of that
<tjagoda> I am especially a fan of getting paid for that
<jrwren> cool answer.
<tjagoda> If you ever use it, I'll have to kill you ;)
<snap-l> LIstening to A Clockwork Orange's soundtrack is probably not the wisest move while wading through this code.
<Wolfger> jrwren: Yeah, I run noscript as well. :-p
<Wolfger> tjagoda: if you are a fan of "working diligently in support of changing the face of Linux", then why did you bail out of Ubuntu when they made some changes? ;-)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Shhhhh
<snap-l> Never let a good story get in the way of the facts. :)
<Wolfger> I didn't
<Wolfger> I think you meant to say the opposite
<Wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> bah
<snap-l> I stand by what I meant to say
<tjagoda> I still use ubuntu
<tjagoda> I just use a different desktop environment
<jrwren> i need a LGPL license with an iOS static linking exception :)
<jrwren> i still use ubuntu too
<jrwren> and I use a different deaktop environment. windows and osx
<rick_h> umm heh
<snap-l> jrwren: please to be telling me the results of `cat /proc/cpuinfo` on said Windows and OSX desktop environments.
<rick_h> snap-l: how dare you make him stoop to the cmd line. The cmd line is a bug!
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, my bad
<snap-l> OPen nautilus, move to /proc/cpuinfo and double-click
<snap-l> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpufeb2012-366318.html
<rick_h> wheee
<snap-l> Reason #454623 why Oracle needs to DIAF: https://support.oracle.com/CSP/main/article?cmd=show&type=NOT&id=1404863.1
<snap-l> Go on, click on that link
<rick_h> Sign Up for a free Oracle Web account
<snap-l> Yes, to find out what's in the support notes
<snap-l> ie: what changed.
<snap-l> Sometimes I think the toy collectible market goes way too far: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/ec60/
<rick_h> woot, loving ec2 test/landing. landing 4 branches at once and my machine doesn't have to run4 sets of tests at once yay
<snap-l> Does it spin up four instances?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> 4 large ec2 instances
<tjagoda> snap-l: whats wrong with a little molding?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Nothing, but it's just a little... what's the word?... creepy
<tjagoda> If I get hired by Geek.net or Canonical, I will buy this for my home office: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e9b8/
<jrwren> rick_h: oh EFF YOU!  not having /proc is one thing, not having cmdline is completely different!
<rick_h> :)
<jrwren> rick_h: that said, you are one of the few people in the world that i've met that probably has better cmdline fu than me :)
<rick_h> jrwren: not sure on that. I'm just very happy with my 10%
<jrwren> 10% ?
<jrwren> i just love cmdline and feel like i'm pretty good at it.
<rick_h> every tool, find the 10% you use all the time and kill it
<jrwren> does that go for your wood working tools too?
<rick_h> I know maybe 10% of other masters, but happy with my 10% to make myself productive
<rick_h> jrwren: definitely, you get into comfy patterns with how you use things
<rick_h> not sure on the 10% thing
<snap-l> rick_h knows 10 commands, but he types them faster than anyone I know. ;)
<rick_h> I was more thinking of things like vim, shell, etc
<jrwren> i feel like i actually know more than 10% of bash and coreutils and there are things that I know I don't know... its things that i don't know that i don't know that i'm not sure abou t;P
<rick_h> right, well I guess I'm saying less "know of" and more "use regularaly"
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that's the rub
<jrwren> i'm thinking purely shell and coreutils
<jrwren> i'm not counting vim... vim is too huge :)
<rick_h> except with spell correct in there
<rick_h> vim is as large as shell/cmd line fu I'd think
<jrwren> larger.
<rick_h> anyway, I think you probably know more cmd line stuff than me
<jrwren> amount of vim knowledge is far larger than shell+coreutils
<rick_h> but anyway, I was just making a joke on the cmd line thing
<jrwren> doubtful. you actually made the zsh leap. I'm back on bash and I don't even leverage completion providers much
<jrwren> a joke at my expense :(
<Wolfger> brousch and anybody who cares: figured out my twitter.com MitM issues... Firefox was set to start session with all the tabs from previous session. Even though nothing using twitter was open, and even though I cleaned history, cache, etc, FF was somehow keeping twitter as something that needed to be loaded.
<jrwren> i earned it by using windows and mac
<rick_h> espeicially because I was curious how snap-l would move to respond given that any response would be WM specific
<rick_h> and thus make your point a bit more
<Wolfger> changed FF to start with blank page, problem magically gone
<rick_h> if you ditch the cmd line you really can almost say ubuntu/osx/win7 is a DE
<rick_h> all a matter of what apps you use install and how you get to them
<snap-l> Um....
<snap-l> There's fundamental differences to how linux / osx / win7 attack things under the DE layer
<snap-l> That was mostly my joke. :)
<rick_h> right, but if you take out cmd line, you're stuck at the DE layer
<snap-l> And if you take out the DE layer, you have a brick
<rick_h> :)
<brousch> no, you have a cloud app
<jrwren> you mean chromeos?
<rick_h> yea, I was wondering when that would come up
<snap-l> ttp://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
<snap-l> Bah: http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
<snap-l> Let's try that again: http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do
<jrwren> wtf is in ssh the definitive guide
<rick_h> I've got that one
<rick_h> I can bring it to CHC
<rick_h> good stuff on how ssh works, tricks and tips, building complex network setups over ssh
<jrwren> weird
<tjagoda> I loved the Programming Perl book
<jrwren> got a python version?
<jrwren> imma have to become python guru pretty quick... i verbally accepted job offer doing python.
<jrwren> not sure why I have not got paper yet.
<snap-l> Learning Python or Programming Python
<rick_h> jrwren: learning python isn't what you want
<jrwren> those books USED TO SUCK
<snap-l> Both have had major rewrites
<rick_h> yea...that's true
<jrwren> dive into python will get me the sweet sweet details?
<snap-l> And yes, learning python was a deathmarch before the rewrite
<snap-l> Dive Into Python is old
<jrwren> no 2.7 update for dive into?
<rick_h> man, I've read a lot of python books, but can't think of one that I'd heartily recomment
<snap-l> and the python 3  rewrite is pretty offputting
<rick_h> recommend
<jrwren> oh wow, 2004
<jrwren> rick_h: that is what I'd guess.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea no he went py3
<jrwren> i'll just read the docs :)
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I mean python really is more passed via looking at docs and existing code
<snap-l> jrwren: If you want to borrow a copy of Learning Python, LMK
<rick_h> I learned a lot figuring out how other tools worked like pylons/pyramid, nose, etc.
<rick_h> I'd suggest getting the new cookbook when it comes out next week (hopefully it's on time)
<snap-l> That's really the best way to learn
<rick_h> that should be a gold mine, but again might be more py3, but still ideas apply
<brousch> what about python the hard way? that seems to fit jrwren
<jrwren> yeah, i might be on 2.4 for all I know :)
<rick_h> ugh, I hope not
<snap-l> brousch: That seems pretty basic
<rick_h> actually wow, checking my kindle collection very little python. I guess I did learn more via paper books
<rick_h> jrwren: gold: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-David-Beazley/dp/0672329786/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-6
<rick_h> and http://www.amazon.com/Python-Standard-Library-Example-Developers/dp/0321767349/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-11
<tjagoda> I still use Linux in a Nuthsell on a regular basis
<tjagoda> "WTF Was that command?"
<rick_h> yea, those two + the coookbook would be my suggestions if one were to ask
<brousch> anything beazley should be good
<rick_h> and reading a ton of code. no wonder python is often self taught, not a great book really
<jrwren> i just skimmed learn python the hard way... its super basic.
<rick_h> but the essential ref is something I still grab sometimes
<jrwren> i'd not consider someone knowing python having read it :p
<brousch> i haven't actually read it yet
<rick_h> not looked at that, no metaclasses fun? :)
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> not even list comprehension!
<rick_h> ?!?!?!
<snap-l> I didn't like Python The Essential Reference
<rick_h> that can't be, you can't write a book on python without generators, iterators, comprehensions
<jrwren> inorite!
<rick_h> snap-l: no?
<brousch> what is python without list comprehensions?!
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it seemed a little too... sterile, perhaps?
<rick_h> it's very much a reference, but killer especially when you hit stuff like logging/etc
<jrwren> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/  I skimmed eveyr page... no generators, iterators or comprehensions
<snap-l> That and I got rid of it when I went on my SOAP rampage.
<rick_h> snap-l: ah, yea. I'd not use it for straight learning, but it's great to walk throughand for when you need that question answered
<snap-l> SPOA, rather
<snap-l> Fuck, why can't I type that
<snap-l> SOPA
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, meh on that ToC
<rick_h> psh, python koans > than that "chapter" on "doing things to lists"
<jrwren> A Byte of Python looks a bit better, more terse, but still intro... I want the advanced :p
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, not going to find it really
<brousch> rick_h: didn't you read an advanced python book last year?
<rick_h> brousch: it was crazy
<rick_h> I'm trying to find it
<snap-l> It wasn't Expert Python, was it?
<rick_h> no, that one is crack as well
<jrwren> how crazy/
<rick_h> I thought it was an apress book, I remember reading it on the kindle
<brousch> i have lost track. is crack good or bad?
 * rick_h checks my book folder
<snap-l> Expert Python started off strong, and then became "here's revision control"
<snap-l> Python Algorithms? FOundations of Python Networking?
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Python-Programming-practices-distributing/dp/184719494X  Martelli's review is great.
<rick_h> snap-l: what was that one that jumped all over the place
<rick_h> I think you read it first and then I read it on a plane
<jrwren> python essential references looks good
<snap-l> Yeah, I got a review copy of it
<snap-l> and it jumped like crazy
<rick_h> snap-l: yea
<snap-l> WEnt from installing Python to the hairier parts of python OO
<snap-l> and then finished with "revision control is good"
<rick_h> oh, think ir was Pro Python
<snap-l> Ah, yeah, that's it
<rick_h> hmm, I can't find it locally. Wonder where I got it from then
<brousch> maybe it was so bad you burned it
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/review/R2C34BGYK149PD/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=184719494X&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
<snap-l> rick_h: I think you donated it at CHC
<rick_h> ah, I did get it kindle format
<brousch> ack! http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920000280.do
<brousch> says it has been cancelled
<snap-l> brousch: I can't say I'm surprised
<snap-l> but I am disappointed
<snap-l> Python Cookbook seriously needs some updating
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I'm stoked for that one
<rick_h> brousch: ?!
<rick_h> oh crap, that's not good.
<snap-l> Wonder if they're going to relaunch it as a web site
<snap-l> Frankly it would be better served in a non-dead-tree version
<rick_h> guess it was a couple of years ago: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2010/12/oreilly-python-cookbook-python-3-all.html
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not seeing the cancellation notice
<rick_h> yea, can't find it via google fu
<brousch> Help me whine http://support.oreilly.com/oreilly/topics/_python_cookbook_3rd_edition_cancelled
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> you even get to pick  a little smiley/frowny face and there's a dedicated input for your feelings
<rick_h> _stink_: you know Close
<rick_h> Eyad Hailat
<rick_h> ?
<rick_h> bah, that came out bad
<snap-l> I'm not sure how that could come out good. :)
<rick_h> well somehow paste had "close " and the name in there
<nullspace> snap-l: eh I dislike SOAP mostly because we work with a company that implemented a truly messed up configureation, inputs are strongly typed, outputs are not. Truly confusing
<nullspace> SOAP doesn't seem like it'd be that bad if people used the tools and followed standards.
<snap-l> nullspace: Do you just have keyword notifications for Java things? :)
<snap-l> I meant SOPA
<nullspace> ah yeah that just sucks period
<nullspace> SOAP is webservices, lots of things use SOAP
<_stink_> rick_h: naw, not well. i think he was in the CS dept at WSU when i was forst getting started
<rick_h> _stink_: ok, got a linked in request and didn't ring a bell but saw WSU
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> i haven't accepted yet :P
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> ack, ugliest site evaar? http://www.pythondiary.com/blog/Feb.15,2012/django-and-jquery.html
<nullspace> brousch: all I see is a blinding whitelight quickly followed by utter darkness
<nullspace> kill it with fire
<snap-l> brousch: That site is too clever by half
<snap-l> Also reminds me that I should change my Wordpress theme. :)
<Wolfger> holy mother of all coffee mugs... http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/ec57/?cpg=37449680&msg_id=37449680&et_rid=508488518&linkid=37449680_headline_ec57
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<tjagoda> Nicely done
<tjagoda> Dimensions: 10" diameter x 6.5" tall.
<brousch> why not just drink from the coffee pot?
<tjagoda> Because the coffee pot is wimpy
<tjagoda> And cannot be used as a portable sink
<tjagoda> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/giftsforher/e89a/
<tjagoda> I like to drink out of that in front of camera nerds.
<tjagoda> And then they drink out of this to threaten me back http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/eaa0/
<snap-l> brousch: Drinking from the coffeepot is iuncivilized
<snap-l> *headdesk* http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/134103/github-like-pull-requests-without-github
<nullspace> some people just don't rtfm
<snap-l> jrwren: http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html <- Python Book
<snap-l> Which leads to http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/index.html and http://greenteapress.com/complexity/index.html
<jrwren> looks good.
<jrwren> I think between all these samples http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/  and these   http://dabeaz.com/coroutines/  I'll have a good foundation
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, there's no substitute for just playing with examples in a debugger
<jrwren> debugger?
<jrwren> or repl?
<snap-l> repl, ipdb, whatever
<snap-l> code says more in 2 lines than a book can say in two paragraphs
<snap-l> says the man that collects PDF files like they were pez dispensers at a flea market.
<jrwren> https://jobs.github.com/positions/940ce13a-537b-11e1-9d70-f8e808895bec   awesome
<snap-l> http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120215_Robocalls_FCC.pdf
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-16
<PainBank> Yo, is chc tonight?
<rick_h> yep
<PainBank> Where?
<rick_h> http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/locations/detroit.html
<PainBank> Guess you moved it, cause no one is at carribou.
<PainBank> Sweet se us on a few.
<rick_h> dude, been here for nearly a year
<PainBank> yo
<rick_h> yo
<rick_h> email sent
<PainBank> sweet
<tjagoda> I dont like replacing outdoor halogen lightbulbs
<tjagoda> they scare me
<tjagoda> always pop and break when I touch them
<tjagoda> I like Canonical's application system
<tjagoda> Very clean.  Very quick.
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> good DOTD (maybe, haven't read it) today
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it's pretty good
<snap-l> and most of the reviews on the site are "doesn't measure with code complete", and "I don't like their commenting style"
<snap-l> (most of the bad reviews)
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596802301.do#PowerReview
<Wolfger> Wow. Thoughtful and insightful reviews.
<Wolfger> Not used to seeing that. :-)
<snap-l> I wish magazine sampler CDs came with at least a multimedia section that told you (once you toss the flimsy disk jacket they package it in) what was on the disc.
<snap-l> Hello from the other side. :)
<brousch> other side of what?
<Wolfger> his house
<Wolfger> ...or does he have a "real" job now? ;-)
<snap-l> Wolfger: I'm in an office now
<snap-l> and my other job was a "real" job
<snap-l> just didn't have me "really" doing much. :)
<Wolfger> bah. Working from home isn't a real job.
<Wolfger> It's having a benefactor.
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> (so says the voice of envy)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Heh
<snap-l> Letting it slide before I rip you open like a pinata and tear out the candy bits inside. ;)
<Wolfger> no candy inside today. Only bagels
<Wolfger> you know, if I'd never met snap-l in person, I'd think he was big, mean, and tough...
<brousch> really?
<brousch> i think he's a teddy bear who likes to headbang
<Wolfger> yeah, pretty much
<Wolfger> but he talks a mean game in IRC
<Wolfger> ripping people open and whatnot
<brousch> pinatas are not particularly hard to rip open
<brousch> so his plan is to blindly tap you with a stick and hope you explode
<snap-l> Wolfger: I am big and mean. :)
<snap-l> But mostly I'm just into hyperbole. :)
<Wolfger> snap-l: more like big and ill-humored
<snap-l> You haven't seen angry me
<snap-l> It's not pretty
<snap-l> I'm a laser-beam of destruction
 * snap-l listens to music to soothe the savage beast: Revocation - Chaos of Forms
<jrwren> anyone know what the ab "time per request mean across all concurrent" is actually measuring?
<snap-l> jrwren: context?
<rick_h> ab the apache benchmark tool
<rick_h> jrwren: I can't say for 100% just read into the description
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> http://serverfault.com/questions/153480/how-to-interpret-ab-result
<snap-l> jrwren: ^^
<brousch> rick_h: how did you know that i joined goodreads?
<rick_h> brousch: I got an email notification
<brousch> geekers
<brousch> they wanted to spam all my FB friends, but i think i stopped it
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<rick_h> well I wasn't on that list :)
<brousch> i didn't realize it would email everyone in my contacts
<brousch> going through these book ratings and lists makes me realize how little i've read
<brousch> hm, going through children's books "neil gaiman: the graveyard book"
<jrwren> yeah, i googled and read adn found that serverault, but that didn't help.
<snap-l> jrwren: What's the specific question, then?
<jrwren> afaict its actually just time per request mean divided by concurrency number.
<jrwren> which is fine.
<jrwren> i am just not sure why that is a useful number.
<greg_g> snap-l: if you ever need to contact all of the lame-os on LP that are a part of Ubuntu Michigan, blog.launchpad.net/?p=3198
<snap-l> greg_g: Oh, very handy. :)
<greg_g> (lame-os == those who aren't subscribed to the mailing list)
<_stink_> oh, i thought you meant we are all lame-os.
<snap-l> _stink_: that's how I took it. :)
<_stink_> :P
<snap-l> Hey, I included myself in that set. :)
<brousch> i don't use a lame os, i use kubuntu!
<snap-l> You're in denial.
<snap-l> It's OK. We're here to help.
<brousch> screw you guys, i'm going back to #kubuntu-us-mi they're much more supportive
<greg-g> how would you type/spell "lame-os"?
<brousch> "greg-g" :P
<greg-g> brousch: liar
<greg-g>  /join #kubuntu-us-mi  --> empty
<brousch> hm, i think i just spammed twitter with about 100 books that i read
<brousch> er, facebook
<snap-l> As long as it isn't twitter, I don't care. :)
<brousch> right, but i do
<greg-g> brousch: I also got an email from you
<greg-g> From: Ben Rousch <noreply@mail.goodreads.com>
<snap-l> I didn't get spammed by brousch
<greg-g> he doesn't love you as much as me
<snap-l> hah
<brousch> snap-l: interesting. you're probably using an email address i don't have
<snap-l> craig@decafbad.net
<snap-l> If you used GMail to create an account, then I'm likely not in there. :)
<brousch> heh. sylvain hellgarouch accepted the friend request
<brousch> i feel 1337
<brousch> i tried to add jodee and got "Sorry, you have reached our daily limit for the number of friend requests. Please try again later."
<snap-l> Yeah, you need at least 3 to friend her.
<snap-l> She's 1337^2
<snap-l> (1787569)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> good reads is suggesting i read "Pro Drupal Development"
<Wolfger> Well, get to it!
 * brousch tried to send Wolfger the 'pile of poo' symbol and fails
<Wolfger> now you're stuck with your own poo
<_stink_> anyone know how to tell vim to use a different syntax file than the one it's trying by default for a particular file extension?
<_stink_> looks like "au BufNewFile,BufRead *.stupidoldextension set filetype=goodextension"
<rick_h> _stink_: permanent? or just once?
<rick_h> yea, set ft=
<_stink_> permanent.
<_stink_> awesome, thanks.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/projc/moving_to_python_from_perl_any_advice/
<rick_h> heh, I'd been avoiding looking at that one
<snap-l> The higher-rated comments are pretty good
<snap-l> not relying on regexes because Python has good string handling
<snap-l> Seems pretty even keel
<Wolfger> Not relying on regexes? Blasphemy!
<rick_h> that's one of the things I find appealing in the ruby camp
<rick_h> decent regex usage compared to python
<snap-l> rick_h: Well, it's there if you need it in Python
<snap-l> but most of the time with Perl I was using regexes to find out if something was in something
<rick_h> Wolfger: yea, some people (crazy though they are) find if str.endswidth('txt') easier to read then str./txt$/ or whatever
<rick_h> or better yet, if 'txt' in str:
<rick_h> vs whatever perl concoction you feel like today :)
<Wolfger> if $str =~ m/.txt$/
<Wolfger> what's so hard about that? ;-p
<Wolfger> endswidth?
<Wolfger> shouldn't that be endswith?
<snap-l> Nah, it finds any three characters with endswidth. ;)
 * Wolfger ponders how the width of an end is calculated
<Wolfger> (cue "I like big butts" joke in 3..2..1..)
<rick_h> *sigh*
<Wolfger> "It'll help for Python3, which unlike Perl6 actually is here, although you wouldn't really notice it." nice comment
<snap-l> It's the truth
<snap-l> Perl6 ended up stranded on some asteroid mining mission
<jrwren> that is actually true
<jrwren> and a good point.
<jrwren> in a tight loop the cost of the pcre for simple matching like that is going to get really expensive
<Wolfger> same commenter: "To the folks hating on Perl, STOP IT. The Perl folks know their shit. Guido is an artist, he knows pretty. Larry Wall is a programmer, he knows performance, and other beardy shit like that. Perl may be one of the uglier languages out there, but it's got every modern paradigm, usually a decade before it gets popular. Feel free to hate on the Ruby folks, but the Perl folks are good.
<Wolfger>  We want them on our side."
<rick_h> ummm, I'm really not sold on the "but it's got every modern paradigm, usually a decade before it gets popular."
<Wolfger> Yeah, well...
<Wolfger> words like "every", "all", "always", "never" really shouldn't be used
<Wolfger> but people like them
<rick_h> I'm having a hard time rewriting that in my head as "but it's got many modern paradigms, usually a decade before it gets popular"
<rick_h> :P
<Wolfger> "It had many modern paradigms before they were popular"
<Wolfger> that's my un-hyperbolized translation
<Wolfger> Perl also has some paradigms that still haven't become popular. :-D
<jrwren> what does a perl list comprension look like?
<snap-l> http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/map.html
<jrwren> not the same
<jrwren> but nice try
<snap-l> Where does it fall down?
<Wolfger> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1112444/perl-equivalent-of-python-list-comprehension
<jrwren> filter.
<jrwren> oh right, grep is filter.
<jrwren> my bad.
<jrwren> so nested map and grep... yes, i guess i recall that from perl, and i recall liking it.
<snap-l> It's not very pretty, though.
<snap-l> (pretty as in pleasent to look at)
<snap-l> It looks like Perl 6 tries to rectify that somewhat:
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(list_comprehension)#Perl_6
<snap-l> Jesus, Perl 6 started the design process in 2000
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> amazing that py3k eclipsed it.
<snap-l> At this rate, it'll be the Chinese Democracy / Duke Nukem Forever of programming languages
<snap-l> and likely suck as hard.
<Wolfger> Perl6 already is the Duke Nukem Forever of programming languages.
<Wolfger> although supporters will tell you Perl 6 really exists and you can program in it....
<Wolfger> I think they are delusional
<Wolfger> Much like anybody who thought KDE4 was usable when it got released.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Democracy
<greg-g> is that the article on oxymorons?
<Wolfger> greg-g: this is snap-l we're talking about... it's about heavy metal :-p
<Wolfger> (is g'n'r considered metal?)
<greg-g> Wolfger: snap-l's link
<greg-g> and gnr metal? no.
<snap-l> Well, Metal is a tricky definition
<snap-l> Zeppelin is considered Heavy Metal
<snap-l> so G'nR is technically metal
<snap-l> Though I tend to put them in the less glam end of glam metal
<snap-l> we could spend all day with that definition
<Wolfger> kinda like "what is sci fi?"
<snap-l> Exactly
<snap-l> And when is Sci Fi no longer Sci Fi, but Fantasy
<Wolfger> most people would say Star Wars is definitive sci fi, but really it's much more high fantasy
<jrwren> the grammys have a hard rock/metal category
<snap-l> jrwren: The Grammys doesn't know the difference between Jethro Tull and Slayer
<Wolfger> Tull!!!! \m/
<snap-l> The fact that they still have a world music category means they're clueless.
<snap-l> No disrespect to Foo Fighters, but they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Lamb of God / Testament, etc.
<Wolfger> you mean, like you just did right there?
<snap-l> Yep
<Wolfger> snap-l is a paradox
 * snap-l preps to head to the gallows.
<snap-l> right now I'm a paradockers and a sweater.
 * Wolfger groans
<snap-l> I <3 that Sony got caught raising the price of Whitney Houston albums on iTunes after her death
<snap-l> 30 minutes afterward.
<snap-l> Sleazy.
<Wolfger> very
<Wolfger> Somebody died. PROFIT!!!!!
<Wolfger> They are saying it was a mistake.
<Wolfger> in unrelated news, they are also trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed. i LMAO when I saw foo fighters won that category.
<jrwren> i wouldn't have called foo fighters hard rock.
<jrwren> its pop rock.
<jrwren> its pretty easy to argue that it doesn't get any more pop rock and foo fighters
<jrwren> *than foo fighters
<Wolfger> mmm.... Pop Rocks.....
<Wolfger> do they still sell those?
<jrwren> ... i just realized how much the unity launcher bar looks like windowmaker's bar
<jrwren> yes, poprocks are still around. the react with coke almost a nicely as mentos
<brousch> Wolfger: pop rocks, yes. my son just had his first hit a couple of weeks ago
<Wolfger> LOL @ "first hit"
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<greg-g> ok, I just did my first all-on-github fork, change, send merge request thingy
<greg-g> it was a one-line patch, but that in-browser editor was cool
<brousch> greg-g++
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, it's perfect for that stuff.
<rick_h> <3 https://twitter.com/#!/palendae/status/170229013112033280
<snap-l> rick_h: Isnt that the truth
<snap-l> Every time I've upgraded Tracks and they add something to it, I wonder "What'll break now"
<Wolfger> Oh noes! The cancelled my Amazon order! (or so the e-mail in my spam folder tells me)
<Wolfger> I guess if you send out enough of those, you'll get a fair number of people who actually are waiting for an order to be delivered.
<Wolfger> Congress needs to pass a bi-partisan bill declaring "spam prevention" to be justification for homicide.
<brousch> snap-l: do you still have your kobo?
<snap-l> yes
<brousch> i have heard it's very hackable
<snap-l> It can be
<brousch> you can install debian on it
<snap-l> Though there was one gent who was hacking it, and then abruptly stopped
<snap-l> For a while they seemed the most Linux friendly out of the eReader crek
<snap-l> crew
<greg-g> floating down the ereader creek
<snap-l> 'bout the size of it
<snap-l> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/02/16/1733229/windowmaker-development-resumes-has-first-release-since-2006
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i think i tried that back in 2006/2007 as a remote desktop for people on dial-up
<brousch> using nx
<jrwren> snap-l: that is why I mentioned WM earlier.
<rick_h> gah, buildout is getting annoying
<brousch> at least you have figured out how to use it
<rick_h> I don't think so...I can't figure out how the @#$@# to get this test runner working right
<rick_h> it builds a package, but wtf...grrrr too much magic in here
<rick_h> oh sweet, got it I think
<brousch> rick_h: you'll be so proud. i just deleted my aptana pydev eclipse ide because vim is teh awesome
<Blazeix> oh, didn't rick_h mention it? he's switched over to eclipse for his day-to-day python dev.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-17
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, we've all moved to pycharm
<snap-l> autocomplete FTW
<snap-l> G'morning
<rick_h> morn
<Wolfger> Happy Friday
<Wolfger> don't forget Penguicon "bring a friend" party tonight. With free-as-in-beer beer (I think)
<brousch> eh?
<mydogsnameisrudy> there's a party going on somewhere?
<Wolfger> Dearborn
<mydogsnameisrudy> oh heh to far
<Wolfger> Penguicon is hosting a party at the hotel where the convention will be this year.
<Wolfger> It's specifically aimed at getting people who haven't been to Penguicon to come out and get an idea what it's like.
<Wolfger> So brousch, get out there and check it out :-)
<brousch> too scary
<brousch> http://www.penguicon.org/CMS/?page_id=216
<brousch> About: 404
<brousch> the about page should just redirect to the rules page
<mydogsnameisrudy> hmm this party mostly programers?
<brousch> i get the impression it's mostly wackos
<mydogsnameisrudy> hmmm drag show lol
<mydogsnameisrudy> yep i c
<Wolfger> I resent being called a wacko
<Wolfger> You will find virtually any (and every) flavor of geek at P-con
<Wolfger> some of them are even too strange for me...
<brousch> Wolfger: mostly wackos, you might fall into the non-wacko segment. might
<Wolfger> doubt it :-)
<brousch> not that there's anything wrong with that
<Wolfger> I fly my freak flag(s) proudly
<brousch> i heartily support your right to be a wacko
<Wolfger> what about a Yakko or a Dot?
<Wolfger> or Pinky and the Brain?
<brousch> oh wow, the BBB sent me an urgent notice using my own email address. i'd better jump right on this
<Wolfger> lol
<brousch> omg. someone is complaining about their dealership with me
<Wolfger> Something about the phrase "multiple life sentences" just screams "your legal system is completely FUBAR"
<brousch> seems like one life sentence should be sufficient
<Wolfger> you would think
<brousch> is it just me, or do the "oldies" on this list seem overpriced? http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do?imm_mid=07ed2a&cmp=em-orm-books-videos-oldies-goodies-short-elist
<brousch> DNS and Bind from 6 years ago for $20?
<brousch> for an ebook?
<brousch> also 2 ruby books, no python?
<snap-l> brousch: How many changes are you aware of in DNS?
<snap-l> Outside of DNSSEC, not much has changed. :)
<snap-l> and I'm not sure that's all that new.
<brousch> hm, maybe you're right. it is $21 used on amazon
<snap-l> brousch: I'd expect Wolfger to be fielding dealership complaints sooner than I'd expect you to be fielding them. :)
<nullspace> just looked clojure syntax, all I can say is yikes
<nullspace> I can read it but I think using it for anything complex is just going to hurt
<snap-l> nullspace: ever played with Lisp?
<snap-l> It's very similar.
<jrwren> brousch: yes, everything on that list is overpriced
<rick_h> heh, the fact that they half off new books for DoTD, give any UG 35% off the top means that books are just overpriced
<jrwren> clojure is a lisp isn't it?
<jrwren> its scheme for jvm, right?
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> "Clojure is a dialect of Lisp," from clojure.org
<snap-l> I don't think there's a "one true lisp"
<jrwren> right, that is what I'm saying.
<snap-l> It's like English
<jrwren> its a lisp
<jrwren> like scheme is a lisp
<jrwren> like elisp is a lisp
<jrwren> like common lisp is a lisp
<snap-l> Like MIT Scheme is not like GNU Scheme is not like ...
<jrwren> well you could argue that John McCarthy's 1960 paper defines the one true lisp
<jrwren> exactly! MIT scheme would be > GNU Scheme :)
<snap-l> Hah
<snap-l> Just seems whenever someone creates a LISP interpreter, they also create a new dialect to go with it
<snap-l> And we're not talking separate accents, but whole categories of slang.
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> and there are thousands, becuase its a project that 1/2 of all computer science students do at one point :p
<snap-l> jrwren: truth
<nullspace> snap-l: have yet to play with Lisp, though I am intrigued
<nullspace> when I see a new language that I understand but I don't see the reason for why it's doing things in a certain way I think that there has to be a good reasona nd maybe a godo use for it
<nullspace> otherwise why the hell was it created
<snap-l> nullspace: the enduring languages have purposes
<nullspace> except brainfuck, that's just there to screw with your head
<snap-l> sometimes languages are just created as a programming exercise.
<nullspace> I think I'll give clojure a spin through the first ten problems of project euler this weekend
<_stink_> and even within common lisp implementations, there are enough significant differences to be totally annoying.
<_stink_> especially with system interfacing stuff.
<_stink_> i like the competitive ecosystem... until i try to accomodate it.  then i hate it.
<snap-l> _stink_: ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
<jrwren> rick_h: did you see the nodejs video I retweeted?
<jrwren> i LOLed a lot
<rick_h> jrwren: will take a peek
<brousch> i just created a custom django templatetag and corrected a django snippet. i think i am becoming assimilated
<brousch> also, heroku is fun. `git push heroku master` and my updates are live
<jrwren> rick_h: it was orig a jwz tweet if you can't find it
<rick_h> jrwren: thanks, saw the tweet go by but didn't "understand" what it was so skipped by
<snap-l> What the fuck
<snap-l> Just discovered UNity has some keyboard shortcuts for tiling
<snap-l> Accidentally hit CTRL-ALT-NUmpad 0 and my window went fullscreen
<snap-l> CTRL-ALT-2,4,6,8 also move the window to that side
<snap-l> Hell, the whole thing is boobytrapped. :)
<snap-l> DBO: This is your doing!!!!
<brousch> they're trying to make rick_h happy
<rick_h> heh, not quite. anything + a number is a horrible shortcut
<snap-l> Well, and it's only for a numberpad
<rick_h> ?!
<snap-l> so rick_h gets no love there either
<rick_h> so doesn't work if you dont' have a numpad on your laptop?
<rick_h> bah, wasted code imo
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> why do we have to have the most retarded setups for things? ugh!
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h> just getting annoyed at the way every little bit of code in the world we put together is strange and half working as #@$@#$@#
<rick_h> having a ranty friday
<ColonelPanic001> o.o
<rick_h> packages with buildout.cfg, but they don't work, then the README says to do this other thing, and rather than any sane test thing, find out we've built some magic https://launchpad.net/testrepository thing that this package uses
<rick_h> heh, and I see this is written because we've got giant ass test suites that day a workday to run: http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/testrepository-iteration-for-python-projects/
<brousch> a whole day?
<brousch> that's insane
<rick_h> 4-6hrs
<rick_h> it's why we run the damn things in ec2, it's fire/forget
<brousch> this is crazy traffic to my work website. i led a grwebdev meeting on the 23rd but never mentioned my work at all. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/traffic_from_grwebdev_wtf.png
<Wolfger> rick_h: no numpad on your keyboard? How do you live?
<Wolfger> all day tests, fire and forget? No way. "Quit playing games and get back to work."  "I am working. I'm running tests on the code." :-)
<Wolfger> single-threading ftw
<rick_h> Wolfger: this is what pqm is for
<rick_h> Wolfger: and yes, I don't have a keypad on many of my keyboards <3
<Wolfger> I always wanted the numpad on the left, not the right
<Wolfger> those keyboards are hard to find and/or obscenely expensive
<jrwren> numpad is bad.
<jrwren> not ergo.
<jrwren> mouse should be there.
<jrwren> if mouse is past the numpad it is too far and you have to stretch to far to reach it.
<jrwren> bad ergo
<Wolfger> Why are you using a mouse? Just keep your hands on the keyboard.
<rick_h> oh come on Wolfger, I can't believe a kde user isn't moues heavy
<rick_h> if you truly didn't usea mouse much you'd be on a different DE
<Wolfger> but yeah, that's why I want the numpad on the left... No reaching for mouse
<rick_h> exactly, which is why I like my 10less keyborads
<rick_h> keyboads
<rick_h> bah!
<rick_h> I give up...going home and calling in sick
<Wolfger> ROFL
<Wolfger> "Where's Rick?" "He was here earlier, then I got an e-mail that he wasn't feeling well and wouldn't be in today..."
<jrwren> snap-l: gah! your tweet and blog post... i still don't have anyone to open the door for you.
<snap-l> jrwren: No worries. Just LMK if it's not going to happen.
<rick_h> snap-l: crap, wife's working on that day :(
<snap-l> urgh
<snap-l> WEll that's no good.
<rick_h> I might be able to see if grandpa can watch him for an hour/two between me leaving and mom getting home since he's in town
<rick_h> but not sure
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h> I'll shoot for it, but might not be able to make it out. No offense, but not going to run out at 2pm when wife gets home
<rick_h> too much driving for too little time
<snap-l> Yeah, understandable
<brousch> wow. got my second recruiter call ever at work. they want me to do iOS development
<brousch> damn fools
<rick_h> https://plus.google.com/109919666334513536939/posts/a5DdsUPEvhH
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> Oh geez
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<rick_h> come on, that's one cool looking michigan logo there :)
<ColonelPanic001> <3
<ColonelPanic001> Waterloo's amuses me
<rick_h> ok, who wants to take this one? http://www.quora.com/What-can-vim-do-that-nano-cant?__snids__=33969307
<rick_h> you win one internets
<snap-l> Oh jesus
<snap-l> That's like asking what's the difference between a woman and a Barbie doll.
<snap-l> Or the difference between a Navy Seal and a GI Joe action figure.
<brousch> so ... you're saying vim can have real sex instead of just pretend?
<snap-l> "What's the difference between theory and practice? In theory, they're the same"
 * brousch checks his vim book's ToC more closely
<snap-l> brousch: There's a plugin for that
<snap-l> gspot.vba
<snap-l> also, do not google gspot vim
<brousch> based on those people i know who use vim, that is not an image search i want to encounter
<brousch> snap-l: whoa http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0242478
<snap-l> Yeah, they're cheeeeeeep
<snap-l> Even 4GB is $5 each
<brousch> i actually can't find any 1GB for under $2 each
<brousch> i bought a 5 pack 2 years ago for $6
<snap-l> That's still pretty cheap.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think they bottom out after a while
<nullspace> some how I missed this whole non blocking arguement the node.js fan boys are thrwoing around
<snap-l> nullspace: How so?
<rick_h> nullspace: huh?
<rick_h> that's the whole things with eventlet/node/etc
<rick_h> whole point that is
<rick_h> don't solve the concurrency problem, just work around it by making things not concurrent :)
<nullspace> ouch
<snap-l> Well, and use a language that is event based
<snap-l> or very good at events along with a seriously optimized engine
<rick_h> well the events just facilitate jumping in/out of the reactor/main thread
<rick_h> nullspace: so anyway, what's the issue or whatever with the realization?
<nullspace> I don't understand there arguement. did this make sense any time node.js came into being
<rick_h> yes, the idea is that all the libraries/etc you use are non-blocking so that whenever you make a call to mysql/etc
<rick_h> it happens outside the main thread allowing for another bit of code to be processed
<rick_h> in this one, one thread handles more work faster by getting anything that hangs cpu cyles out of the way
<rick_h>  /this one/this way
<rick_h> for instance, in python, when I run a db query, it sits and waits for the db to respond, that python thread doesn't do any other work while waiting
<rick_h> but it could be serving someone else's cached result in that time
<nullspace> isn't there ways to write multi thread python?
<rick_h> yes, but there's a GIL you have to deal with
<rick_h> and it's really ineffecient for many many things
<snap-l> GIL being the Global Lock
<rick_h> and any time you get multi-threaded you have to think harder
<snap-l> (I being ... :) )
<rick_h> see java multi threading/locks/etc
<snap-l> Global Interpreter Lock
<nullspace> ah
<nullspace> yeah that's not really a problem I can say I run into
<snap-l> nullspace: Well, you might run into it in small forms
<snap-l> but much like benchmarking different CPUs nowadays, you'll care a lot if you care a lot. ;)
<snap-l> otherwise, you won't care that much until it starts breaking things.
<nullspace> I think there are way bigger fish to fry
<snap-l> Yeah, like setting up Eclipse. ;)
<nullspace> hey, eclipse works just fine for me
<rick_h> anyone else off monday?
<snap-l> rick_h: Not I
<snap-l> Unless you work for the government, I don't think you get Monday off.
<nullspace> hmm well node could be really handy on embedded devices with a web frontend
<rick_h> nullspace: node is very handle for very fast little services and some people have built really large apps with it
<rick_h> handy that is
<rick_h> I did a contact lookup thing that could handle many more req/s on the one cpu than python could
<rick_h> the other handy space is the JS from back end to front end
<jrwren> lol, hilarious.
<rick_h> jrwren: which part :)
<jrwren> nano
<rick_h> ah, yea
<jrwren> nullspace: the nonblcoking arguement: see Twisted Python
<jrwren> or even stackless python
<jrwren> and maybe pypy greenlets
<rick_h> gevent, etc
<Blazeix> rick_h: do you have an opinion on gunicorn/geven vs uwsgi? I was trying to wrap my head around that last night.
<Blazeix> gunicorn is theoretically production-class, right? not just some little dev server?
<brousch> Blazeix: supposedly
<brousch> i'm using it to serve tens of requests per day on heroku
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, but it's pretty bare bones
<rick_h> Blazeix: I'd still put it behind nginx/company
<rick_h> Blazeix: uwsgi has some extra added nice features
<rick_h> but I think gunicorn is winning the battle tbh
<rick_h> but one thing at morpace I wold them on, was that it could "shut down" an app, and reload it on first request
<brousch> it doesn't really do static files, so you still need something else in front
<rick_h> so let's say you were deploying 50 wsgi apps, rather than 50 apps + 10 workers per app, sitting idle
<rick_h> it could actually shut down the apps to the 5 current accepting requests
<rick_h> and if #6 got a request, it'd take the time to load it
<rick_h> brousch: right, static files, ssl, caching, etc
<rick_h> Blazeix: and uwsgi is pure python, so no C libraries/compiling while gevent needs some C libs
<brousch> the pure python is the most awesome part. pip install gunicorn
<rick_h> Blazeix: nvm...it's not pure python, I lied
<rick_h> but yea, it's pip installable, gunicorn is as well
<brousch> it's not?
<rick_h> no, gunicorn needs some c compiled bits for the gevent support
<rick_h> damn, maybe I'm having a bad friday...don't see it
<Blazeix> ok, cool. it kind of seems like gunicorn exploded on to the scene.
<Blazeix> but maybe i'm just too far from the python community right now.
<rick_h> ah, ok so gunicorn is pure python ootb, but yuou can change the worker model to eventlet of gevent for performance
<rick_h> http://gunicorn.org/faq.html#worker-processes
<rick_h> and those are C-based, I thoght it used gevent ootb
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, gunicorn is winning I think because it started out with built in django support
<rick_h> and has since really gotten helpers to make it a lot easier/performs well
<rick_h> and docs that don't suck as hard as uwsgi
<rick_h> I love uwsgi --help and seeing
<rick_h> -X "not documented yet"
<rick_h> for options in there lol
<brousch> well `python manage.py run_gunicorn` is a lot easier than farting around with apache+mod_wsgi
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<rick_h> I see django 1.4 will finally have a .wsgi ootb now
<brousch> i should say much easier than python+mod_wsgi+ virtualenv, because that's what really makes it a bitch
 * rick_h rants on django some more
<snap-l> rick_h: 'bout fucking time
<rick_h> http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=9735795484d2e4c204da82a29&id=e9564edf16&e=6bda5f785a
<brousch> we don't need no stinking .wsgi
 * rick_h smacks brousch upside the head with a cluebat (no baby sticks here)
<rick_h> but yea, that's why gunicorn got a boost, it knew django users didn't wsgi ootb so it made it easy up front
<rick_h> while everyone else just supports wsgi dammit
<snap-l> There's no reason not to support wsgi
<snap-l> None. Zero. Zip.
<rick_h> man precise downloads so painfully slow :/
<snap-l> bittorrent?
<jrwren> rsync daily from testdrive :[
<Blazeix> anyone have an opinion on the "Agile and Beyond" conference that's coming up?
<Blazeix> my work wants me to go it, but for some reason i have a bad taste in my mouth about it.
<Blazeix> i guess i'm worried it's going to be bunch of Big-A Agile people.
<snap-l> What's the worst that could happen?
<snap-l> A little Kool-Aid, some sneakers, and a loooong nap?
<Blazeix> my brain could leak from my ears.
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, I couldn't sit through it
<brousch> Agholes?
<rick_h> Blazeix: Searls gave the talk at detroit dev days on jasmine
<rick_h> but I mean side v side kanban talks? rly?
<rick_h> heh, the improv talk from detroit dev days is going on there again
<Blazeix> i've only ever used Kanban as a punchline, which I fear wouldn't go over well there.
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, it sure seems like a mgr thing than a code in an editor thing :/
<Blazeix> exactly
<brousch> as i work on this project i find i'm collecting a bunch of little bash scripts for repetative tasks, like refreshing static files locally and on the server. is this where i should be using fabric?
<snap-l> If you're repeating a script, yes.
<snap-l> If you have to keep a list of what script to run next, yes.
<brousch> ok
<rick_h> brousch: fabric or Makefile
<rick_h> I'm coming around to the Makefile way of life
<rick_h> thuogh still <3 fabric
<snap-l> uh oh. :)
<snap-l> Loaded up the good reads app on my nook
<snap-l> I'm a little disappointed with it
<snap-l> would be nice to have it automatically grab titles from the device
<snap-l> instead, it's essentially the website in app form
<brousch> snap-l rick_h sort of good news http://paste.mitechie.com/show/542/
<rick_h> brousch: ah, nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-18
<snap-l> brousch: THat's good news
<rick_h> snap-l: you liked this physics guy book?
<rick_h> man I can't get going into it. It's like it's written by a freaking high schooler
<snap-l> rick_h: The story's the thing
<snap-l> They're not physics books
<snap-l> Genius by Gleck might be better
<snap-l> (according to JoDee)
<snap-l> But yeah, they're science pablum
<rick_h> snap-l: I was just surprised you gave it 5 stars. I'm at 2 myself atm, but only a few dozen pages in I guess
<brousch> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105226/what-does-this-python2-error-mean-and-what-should-i-do-about-it
<rick_h> nice, so arch user on ask ubuntu now
<rick_h> heh, and arch ships with py3
<brousch> he can easily translate it
<brousch> i thought only cluefull people used arch
<jrwren> nope, just clueless hipsters
<snap-l> irc
<snap-l> is the command I use to bring up IRC.
<snap-l> bah, I think my URL thingie is busticated.
<snap-l> Nice, got a cold-call e-mail for a "Python WEb Developer" in MI
<snap-l> With e-mail click-tracking links abounding
<snap-l> And no details about the job at all
<rick_h> heh, suckered in
<snap-l> Nah, I cut out the referral stuff
<snap-l> The only details are what I've posted. :)
<rick_h> the money pit begins! fish tank is out of storage and the amazon wishlist is loading up
<snap-l> rick_h: so, are blue tangs on the wishlist?
<snap-l> Would love to see UPS try to ship that two-day. ;)
<rick_h> heh no
<rick_h> that's salt water
<rick_h> heh, I've mailed ordered fish and shrimp before
<snap-l> Doing fresh water?
<rick_h> yea, planted fresh water again
<rick_h> the decision is who's going to be center stage
<rick_h> angel, gourami, or rainbow fish
<snap-l> Danios. :)
<snap-l> 1,000 danios
<rick_h> hah!
<snap-l> Still debating on getting a new tank
<rick_h> went day dreaming through moby dick store yesterday
<snap-l> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11785666
<snap-l> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4449731
<rick_h> don't go non-standard, you'll end up regretting it
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what i thought
<rick_h> for instance, my tank stand had a crack, so because it's standard, I just hit up moby dick and came home with a new one easy enough
<rick_h> you don't want custom sized lighting, top, base, etc
<snap-l> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11164160
<rick_h> come on, you know you want http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Tropical-Rectangle-Aqua-Tower/dp/B000K7HL8W/ref=sr_1_50?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1329579484&sr=1-50 :)
<snap-l> Oh hell yes.
<snap-l> JoDee would love that
<snap-l> "Yeah, it's real pretty, except it's a grand. :)"
<rick_h> well don't tell her that part, it's only 30gal though :/
<snap-l> Too late.
<rick_h> we'll go hit up the fish store when you come over for the sprint
<brousch> that is cool
<brousch> but i can't think of a space where we could put it
<snap-l> It would actually fit wher we have
<brousch> make it so
<snap-l> Something tells me that would be an awful lot of weight in a small area
<rick_h> it's ok, just make sure you're over a joist
<rick_h> <3 https://twitter.com/#!/hmason/status/170896118106959873
<rick_h> well, hopefully by next weekend I'll have water running and a few plants
<snap-l> Did anyone tell Fab that their site sucks
<rick_h> stuff's been in storage for 5yr so having to get a bunch of new stuff still
<brousch> i can't even see the site because there is a giant signup form blocking it all
<snap-l> yes
<brousch> damn fools
<snap-l> W00000t!
<snap-l> Got discount cards for logitech.com for MUG
<snap-l> 35% discount
<jrwren> so, 10%more than newegg :)
<Dekkard> msg/nickserv identify 308cal
<brousch> snap-l: for logitech? so you can buy mice and speakers?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-19
<snap-l> brousch: And Squeezeboxes
<snap-l> jrwren: Shhhhhh... It's a discount. :)
<snap-l> actually, the Squeezebox Radio is $169 on NewEgg
<snap-l> and 179 retail on Logitech's site.
<snap-l> So, by this logic, it appears that Windows 8 will be using the Desktop Cube: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/02/17/redesigning-the-windows-logo.aspx
<rick_h> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> we having fun yet?
<brousch> no
<brousch> toilet ballcock is broken
<rick_h> ouch
<rick_h> man, I had plumbers come out, got raked over the coals
<brousch> i hate fixing those damn things. always leaks
<brousch> to fix a toilet?
<rick_h> yea, well 3 actually
<rick_h> one was leaking and the other two had small issues (handle, etc)
<rick_h> so figured just have someone out to fix them up, didn't have time to worry about it
<rick_h> $80 to show up at the door, then $80 per hour + parts
<brousch> wow. for a $15 part
<rick_h> basically, total for all three was some $30 in parts
<brousch> this genuinely surprises me
<rick_h> 2hr = $270 bill
<rick_h> I was floored, I've heard of "$80/hr min 1 hour" kind of crap
<brousch> it took me about 4 hours to get it right last time
<brousch> most of the problem is getting the bottom seal right so it doesn't leak
<rick_h> ugh
<brousch> have to fill it up, let it sit, check for leak. if it leaks, drain it, mess with it, repeat
<brousch> but it's fun screaming ballcock all day long
<brousch> and looking at instruction which include "base of ballcock shaft"
<rick_h> hah, I see a new talk coming out of this
<brousch> HONEY, GET THE BIG WRENCH. I NEED YOU TO WORK THIS BALLCOCK
<jrwren> makes me glad I've not had someone come out.
<jrwren> I've been putting off getting a gas line fixed because I don't want to pay the $$$
<jrwren> and there is a valve right there so I can easily shut it off
<snap-l> jrwren: As opposed to getting blowed up overnight?
<brousch> i think it's done
<snap-l> Your ballcock?
<brousch> yeah, though now they call it "tank filler"
<brousch> lame
<snap-l> Probably for the same reason that astronomers call Uranus "Ur-uh-nus'
<brousch> bought a new connector for the tank to the water supply. that seemed to eliminate a lot of the problems i had last time
<brousch> to be fair, most of the tank fillers don't have a ball
<brousch> the new ones
<snap-l> Well, that's no fun
<snap-l> floatycock just doesn't have the same ring to it
<Guest9561> hey
<Guest9561> whats up
<Blazeix> hey
<rick_h> this is funny http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/02/19/there-is-a-lesson-here
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> What's the best way to remove a service from running on boot under Ocelot?
<snap-l> I know I can just remove the link, but I seem to remember a command to do something similar
<snap-l> and it's one of those commands that I use once a year, if that, so I don't remember what it's called
<rick_h> update-rc.d ?
<snap-l> Yeah, that's it.
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/19320/whats-the-recommend-way-to-enable-disable-services
<snap-l> Got used to chkconfig under Red Hat, and knew it was something different
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-11
<derekv> update pushed
<derekv> now remembers created event types as 'favorites'
<derekv> hah, emacs : "A search is by defaut case insensitive, but if you input an upper case letter, it become case sensitive."
<Blazeix> hey, don't knock it, i have that enabled in vim.
<Blazeix> useful as hell
<derekv> Blazeix: the 'hah' was because I remember talking about it at CHC (in vim)
<derekv> I was using it without thinking about it
<derekv> Been spending effort getting better at emacs this last week
<derekv> finding things I wish I could pull from vi
<derekv> or things that I want that are "vi-ish" but wouldn't be directly from vi since the context wouldnt make sense
<derekv> i'll have to be fixing that
<derekv> i'm going to end up with some sort of crazy crap nobody else can use
<snap-l> UNtil Linux Game Publishing turns off their DRM I'm never buying another one of their games. Ever.
<derekv> im feeling some rsi from mbp only having alt key on left
<derekv> so glad I did this
<derekv> am doing this
<rick_h_> derekv: doing what?
<jcastro> http://blog.makezine.com/2013/02/06/diresta-reclaimed-wood-table/
<jcastro> rick_h_: ^^^
<derekv> rick_h_: making a web app/platform.  doing it in a new framework. doing it in python
<derekv> but next web app is going to be clojure or hunchentoot
<derekv> unless somethign else comes front and center
<derekv> frankly i'm not sure why i should reformat my data before sending it to the templating part
<derekv> waste of my time
<derekv> I have a pretty low tolerance for doing things I feel like a computer can do for me
<derekv> nvm figured it all out
<snap-l> I think I'm getting cranky in my old age.
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2013-February/006202.html
<jcastro> you're cranky at every age bracket. :p
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool on the table. There's a guy that does sheds and such from reclaimed lumber I'm hoping I can get to do our shed this summer
<rick_h_> would be cool to have some old barn timbers as the shed
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it just looks awesome
<jcastro> lol I bet a table like that is like 4 grand @ pottery barn
<rick_h_> oh come on, only $2k
<shakes808> Good morrrow peoples
<rick_h_> peoples are peoples
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I suppose. :)
<snap-l> Hm, I'm pretty sure a mail from gmail doesn't go through Amazon EC2. What do you think?
<jcastro> probably not
<rick_h_> origination smtp server?
<rick_h_> e.g. depends on who the email is from I would think
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/addx3pJbZlswwYEfb4b7/
<jcastro> how do I quickly center something
<jcastro> is <center> still hip?
<rick_h_> <div style="text-align: center"></div>
<jcastro> ta
<jcastro> looks like the person is relaying through postfix on ec2?
<rick_h_> or better, in your css .center { text-align: center } with <div class=center>...
<snap-l> jcastro: Only through meditation can we center something
<jcastro> You can send 2,000 messages for free each day when you call Amazon SES from an Amazon EC2 instance directly or through AWS Elastic Beanstalk. Many applications are able to operate entirely within this free tier limit.
<jcastro> oh neat, I didn't know they did free tier for sending mail
<rick_h_> last I read you had to have uploaded a list of addresses you plan to send email to first
<rick_h_> kind of a whitelist thing or something
<snap-l> Yeah, this is pretty targeted
<snap-l> Someone asking if I'm the site manager for my domain
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> so spam
<snap-l> Yeah, but persistent
<jcastro> oh sorry, targetted commercial email
<jcastro> spam.
<snap-l> Same difference
<rick_h_> or someone that just hopes to buy your domain/etc
<snap-l> Probably some schmuck who wants me to put an infographic on my site
<snap-l> which then turns into something else.
<snap-l> Was just going to respond until I decided to check headers
<snap-l> Now I have a spiffy Amazon case number, and hopefully someone will get their instance yanked.
<jcastro> yup
<jcastro> jrwren: where did your upstart question go?
<rick_h_> any greader users seeing this? http://r.bmark.us/u/b2c6792893dc6f
 * rick_h_ quivers in his boots
<brousch> rick_h_: Mine seems normal
<snap-l> I've abandoned greader
<jcastro> theoldreader.com
<snap-l> I'm using rss2email
<dzho> > These people, self included, may be holdouts from a previous era of the web â a time when there werenât Twitters and Flipboards and Google+âs, even, for social news reading and sharing.
<dzho> gfoml
<dzho> er, gtfoml
<dzho> I'm from a previous era of the web when we didn't have RSS feeds.
<snap-l> I think after our next reapproval (Oct. 2013) I'll need to pass the reigns of contact off to someone else.
<_stink_> we'll all happily ignore that resignation, thanks very much
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<snap-l> Hey, if the pope can resign... ;)
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> i was trying really hard to think of a pope joke
<snap-l> Much like the pope, I'd like to spend more time with my family. ;)
<snap-l> Actually, the real reason is because I'm feeling angsty about the whole loco process
<snap-l> and I'd rather not have my personal feelings about it affect the loco
<_stink_> maybe we can vote to authorize a rant.
<_stink_> by you
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h_> it is time for new blood
<snap-l> Perhaps.
<rick_h_> I think most of us have cared beyond the ubuntu part of things. We've just turned it into our techie social club
<snap-l> rick_h_: Definitely
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> ef theoldreader, use NewsBlur instead! (www.newsblur.com)
<snap-l> The discussion about the terminology of Sponsored vs. ??? on the loco contacts list got me thinking about it again
<greg-g> http://greggrossmeier.newsblur.com/
<greg-g> snap-l: I have happily not seen that, I only saw larua c's blog post on it
<snap-l> greg-g: Well, it got me thinking about why we even have an approval process
<greg-g> free shit
<greg-g> mark's money
<greg-g> fsmm
<snap-l> because the only reasons I still even care about the team reports and reapproval are for the CDs and any odd prestige that might come from it
<greg-g> (not "flying spaghetti monster, man")
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> they have an approval process because the locos have the oppertunity to be a vocal bit of Ubuntu community and they need to be able to disavow all connections if it's abused
<snap-l> And if that's the only reason we're still keeping approval, perhaps it's time to let it lapse.
<snap-l> I really don't know
<rick_h_> I think for them locos are marketing/education/community arm
<greg-g> they could disavow without the approval process, no loco is given more official weight than your random joe schmoe
<rick_h_> and we're not really fitting that
<greg-g> but yeah, arms length and all that
<rick_h_> greg-g: agree, but for the locos that do the super stuff, it's nice to get logos, be able to talk to a space about hosting an event and having some legitimacy
<greg-g> right, we definitely aren't doing the things that the original idea for locos thought about: running ubuntu confs, doing outreach events (I don't think our release parties count ;) )
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, def
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> so that's why I mean that new blood with an interest in pursuing the missing might be in order
<snap-l> Well, we do some outreach
<rick_h_> and if there's no interest in that...well...
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this way.
<_stink_> but where will my third irssi window idle???
 * _stink_ panics
<snap-l> We're not going anywhere
<rick_h_> 3rd?!
<_stink_> status, waynestatelug, ubuntu-us-mi
<_stink_> sorry!
<snap-l> _stink_: You should add mugorg to that list. ;)
 * rick_h_ wonders if he can close #r any time soon
<snap-l> and coffeehousecoders
<_stink_> snap-l: you have seen my activity lately. :)
<_stink_> er
<_stink_> like for the last 3 years
 * snap-l closed out #sourceforge, #severedfifth, and #ubuntu-community-teams
<dzho> yeah, the decision not to try to set up a non-profit umbrella for loco orgs really took the wind out of my sails early on
<dzho> heavy process makes sense if you have something like that, less so without it
<snap-l> dzho: Non-profit statuses can get tricky
<dzho> snap-l: yeah
<snap-l> Seems any time you fiddle with tax code, shit gets real
<dzho> well, shit is real when my ass is hauling down the highway to an event, too.
<snap-l> heh
<dzho> mind, I haven't done as much of the heavy lifting for -ny-us as a friend of mine.
<rick_h_> international tax codes...
<dzho> so some of this is about what he gets out of what he has put in, too.
<snap-l> Oh definitely
<dzho> Isle of Man tax codes ;-)
<snap-l> And part of this is because I don't think the team reports are that useful, but it seems some bit of code is preventing a process change.
<dzho> a bit of . . . code?
<dzho> seems if ever there was a time to quote "use the source" this would be it.
<dzho> but then again, this is "our business process software is proprietary" Canonical so who knows?
<snap-l> Which I know is a silly thing to get upset about, but it feels like yet another process we need wade through to please folks that ultimately means nothing
<rick_h_> woot! first text on the pebble
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2013-February/006168.html (thread begins here)
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> rick_h_: It showed up?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, showed up today. Charging it up and wife just texted me
<rick_h_> wheee with ifttt
<snap-l> Awesome.
<snap-l> Wish I had some mad money: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sparetimegizmos/classic-pdp8-replica
<rick_h_> hah cool
<snap-l> I've played a little bit with an emulator, and couldn't make head or tail out of it.
<greg-g> INBOX ZERO (work account) !!!!!
<greg-g> now all I have is:
<greg-g> greg@x220:~$ task list proj:cc
<greg-g> ID Project Pri Due       Active Age Description
<greg-g> 80 cc.end  H   2/11/2013        18h write a thank you note for mako, leave with val
<greg-g> 81 cc.end  H   2/11/2013        18h format x220
<greg-g> 63 cc.end  M   2/11/2013         9d clean office desk
<greg-g> 58 cc.lrmi H   2/12/2013        10d finalize TOCCON preso with Michale Jay
<greg-g> (sorry for the spamming, I'm excited)
<rick_h_> lol, go greg-g go
<snap-l> What? No contexts? :)
 * greg-g never got the hang of contexts
<greg-g> I mean, I'm always by my computer when I'm looking at this list....
 * greg-g may misunderstand contexts
<greg-g> all I know about them is what I've read from your blog, snap-l  ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh god.
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, they're essentially collections of next actions by the area in which they can be done
<snap-l> so just before you're going to do errands, you could either print out a list of @errands, or carry a device with them on it
<rick_h_> lol, just got my pebble has shipped email
 * jjesse is so jealous
<rick_h_> can't recall the last time the email arrived after the device
<jjesse> you have your pebble already?
<rick_h_> fedex is faster than the internet
<rick_h_> jjesse: https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/301004393849966596
<jjesse> curses
<jjesse> wonder when mine will arrive
<rick_h_> well, don't wait for the email lol
<rick_h_> jjesse: what day were you on?
<jjesse> how do i confirm or figure that out?
<rick_h_> hmm, there was a link about it at one point. You have to look at your history on kickstarted for the day you submitted your $$
<jjesse> probably way late i pledged in april
<rick_h_> so in kickstarter go to your 'backer history'
<rick_h_> I did 04/13/2012
<jjesse> 04/18/2012
<rick_h_> yea, so going to be a bit.
<rick_h_> there was a way to get a chart that's day by day number of pledges
<jjesse> so maybe i will have mine in 5 days?
<rick_h_> no, it's all about the number they can make/ship. Some days there's 3x the backers of another day
<rick_h_> it's taken them weeks to get to me and I'm on the first full day
<jjesse> yeah and i remember they have a delay due to chinese new year or something like that?
<rick_h_> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android/#chart-daily
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I'm not organized enough to do the print/device thing. Mostly because I don't have a printer and using a device in front of Rowan is a recipe for disaster
<rick_h_> so the top chart shows counts of day by day backers.
<greg-g> snap-l: I mean, theoretically I would
<greg-g> snap-l: I'm waiting with whetted lips for the taskwarrior android client
<jjesse> so it looks like on the the 18th 5526 people pledged
<jjesse> or something like that
<rick_h_> jjesse: right, but the people in front of yuo get theirs first
<jjesse> oh yeah i understand that
<rick_h_> except they've only done black so far and starting colors one at a time
<rick_h_> so while I was on the 14th, some people ahead of me ordered a diff color so I win
<rick_h_> hopefully they get the kinks worked out.
<rick_h_> still bummed ifttt isn't fully there nor a sdk. Latest sdk news was from last sept :(
<snap-l> greg-g: I use todosh and the Android client
<snap-l> You have to use Dropbox for it, but that's something I'm doing already.
 * greg-g nods
 * greg-g likes taskwarrior too much to switch right now
<greg-g> I wrote a few stupid lame, but useful, weekly bash scripts to do simple reporting in rST
<snap-l> Only problem I have with tw is the project names are too short
<snap-l> I create a separate list under todosh with the tag +project to denote them as projects
<jcastro> I am pretty much living in trello for my stuff
<jcastro> it's just too awesome
<rick_h_> jcastro: +1
<snap-l> Does Trello scale?
<jcastro> scale how?
<rick_h_> does it scale to snap-l 10min interval scale
<snap-l> I have 87 projects
<jcastro> oh, I dunno, you could make 87 boards
<jcastro> and use the search I guess
<greg-g> blugh
<greg-g> that sounds unfun
 * greg-g hugs taskwarrior
<snap-l> and each of them has contexts that can be aggregated into one spot?
<jcastro> seriously, 87 projects, are you working on the large hadron collider or something?
<snap-l> jcastro: No, I'm working on life. ;)
<greg-g> the medium hadron collider
<greg-g> or, maybe a better joke
<greg-g> the super size me version
<rick_h_> he needs the kitty litter trello board and the march dinner supplies board and ...
<jcastro> "remember to eat"
<snap-l> You laugh, but the kitty litter thing was a project
<rick_h_> yep, laughing...
<jcastro> man dude, recurring amazon subscription yo.
<jcastro> I don't have to remember jack, some days toilet paper just shows up here
<snap-l> jcastro: You haven't seen my new litter box
<rick_h_> "what are we going to do tonight Brain?" ... "Try to complete project kitty litter this weekend"
<snap-l> It's a thing of beauty
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008F89SG6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01
<jcastro> I just got the coolest rush shirt
<jcastro> check the back out snap-l
<snap-l> Nice!
<rick_h_> http://www.zweitag.de/en/blog/ruby-on-rails-vulnerable-to-mass-assignment-and-sql-injection *sigh* this reminds me of NC dude wanting to write his application in yaml
<brousch> Is that a new one or the same as last week?
<rick_h_> looks like new one
<rick_h_> in json vs yaml
<jcastro> snap-l: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kRWwxCPyjw
<greg-g> rick_h_: http://www.amazon.com/Reverence-Wood-Eric-Sloane/dp/0486433943 came across my feed from freecabinporn.com
<greg-g> huh, he has a few interesting books: http://www.amazon.com/Eric-Sloane/e/B001H6S1W0/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1
<snap-l> jcastro: Awesome.
<jcastro> CD sold out, itunes only. :(
<snap-l> jcastro: Had to look up the drummer. Thought it might have been Raymond Hererra
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh well. :)
<jcastro> I thought it was Tom Araya, lol
<jcastro> https://twitter.com/JasonCNewsted/status/269928512733970432/photo/1
<jcastro> sigh, even Jason has left me
<snap-l> jcastro: How so?
<snap-l> OK, I can't get it on Amazon?
<jcastro> nope
<snap-l> Someone's gonna pay
<jcastro> itunes only. :(
<snap-l> I hope it's only a matter of time for it to show up elsewhere
<snap-l> otherwise, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<jcastro> he's selling 8x10 signed glossies for like 4 bucks, I wanted to get that with the CD
<snap-l> He's a damn fool if it's itunes only for digital distro
<jcastro> I'm hoping it's just an oversight by some paid industry douche
<snap-l> Yeah
<jcastro> Jason wouldn't keep you from metal on purpose
<snap-l> Though there are some musicians who think itunes = world
<jcastro> yeah but they suck
<jcastro> did you see what the drummer of the black keys said about beiber?
<jcastro> it's loltastic
<snap-l> No, I didn't.
<jcastro> basically everyone is talking about how bieber got "snubbed" for not getting a grammy nomination this year
<jcastro> and the drummer of the black keys was like "grammys are about music, not money"
<jcastro> LOL
<snap-l> Um, actually they're about people who still take Rolling Stone magazine seriously
<snap-l> and are still pissed at Dylan for going Electric.
<jcastro> not like the grammys are about music anyway
<snap-l> Seriously, the Metal award was pre-televised
<jcastro> yeah
<snap-l> and guess who won
<snap-l> I'll give you a hint:
<jcastro> http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/11/patrick-carney-the-black-keys-justin-bieber-grammys/
<jcastro> it wasn't megadeth or maiden
<jcastro> they were nominated I saw
<snap-l> Nominations were: Marilyn Manson, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Megadeth, Lamb of God
<snap-l> and some metal-country crossover
<snap-l> with a female vocalist.
<snap-l> Winner: Not Marilyn Manson, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Megadeth, Lamb of God
<jcastro> http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/11/patrick-carney-the-black-keys-justin-bieber-grammys/
<jcastro> oops, wrong paste
<jcastro> some band called Halestrom
<snap-l> Yep.
<snap-l> Listen to their song
<snap-l> It's catchy
<jcastro> wrong megadeth song got nominated
<snap-l> Throw in a slide guitar, and you'd rock the fuck out of the country station
<jcastro> that's like the worst one on the new album
<snap-l> And hey, it's not like Iron Maiden released a classic album or anything
<jcastro> it was an old song on a new live record, lame.
<snap-l> and Anthrax released a decent foray
<jcastro> hey this is pretty good
<jcastro> lol, another one tom drummer, hate those guys
<snap-l> Meh, no opinion there
<snap-l> means he thinks he's a jazz drummer
<jcastro> When Lars went from 4 toms to 2 is when they went downhill.
<jcastro> there's a direct correlation between number of tomtoms and how metal you are.
<snap-l> When Lars wasn't snorting coke off of his cymbals is when they went downhill
<snap-l> Nothing to do with toms
<jcastro> the zombie song on the anthrax album is better than the nominated one, but it's still good
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Metal_Performance
<snap-l> I'm seeing a pattern here.
<jcastro> Spoonman
<jcastro> yeah, that's metal. @_@
<snap-l> Oh totally
<snap-l> jcastro: So, how about that Halestorm.
<jcastro> pretty good
<snap-l> Give it another listen
<snap-l> and this time think about country line dancing.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-12
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.amazon.com/Oak-The-Frame-Civilization-ebook/dp/B006FO1EM8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=I3UMIRRU3NDIK0 is one I want to pick up
<snap-l> I'll freely admit it: I'm an asshole.
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/jIPSN793glgo7tTEKd1p/
<snap-l> But I swear, every fucking year I get one of these.
<snap-l> Heh, apparently their CMS had me in there as someone dealing with Maxinmo.
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1642028/what-is-the-name-of-this-operator
<snap-l> I love this one: http://stackoverflow.com/a/8909176/535883
<jrwren> jcastro: i have no idea what happened to that askubuntu question.
<jrwren> i tried to answer it an hour later and askubu said " we are not accepting answers right  now."
<jrwren> i wonder if they had a crash with data loss
<snap-l>    Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> I'm awake today! It's great to be alive!
<snap-l> You're not fooling anyone. :)
<brousch> But really
<shakes808> good morning all
<snap-l> OK, I thinkI have an idea for the Global Jam
<snap-l> There seem to be a lot of folks who were keen on the idea of doing the GJ online
<snap-l> and I think we could make something awesome from that
<snap-l> So the entire weekend (March 1st-3rd) if you're ready to jam, just post to the channel "I'm jamming"
<snap-l> or something with Jam in there
<snap-l> "I like toast and jam"
<snap-l> Whatever
<snap-l> And anyone else who is jamming at that time responds
<snap-l> And folks can collaborate via Google Hangouts if folks don't know what to do
<snap-l> We could have tutorials on bug triage (if anyone wants to demo)
<snap-l> or (if jcastro is up for it) we could have a hangout about how to use askubuntu.com
<snap-l> thoughts?
<brousch> Good in theory
<brousch> West MI has a conference all day March 2
<brousch> I think you'll need specific tasks for people to jam on
<brousch> Otherwise we'll just sit there reading Reddit
<snap-l> brousch: And this is different how? :)
<brousch> Well when people are at the physical jam there's more incentive to actually jam
<snap-l> True, but it seems we have a hard time getting people together
<jcastro> hangout would be awesome
<snap-l> last few jams have been sparsely attended.
<snap-l> jcastro: Would you be willing to present a little on the askubuntu stuff?
<rick_h_> you don't think the 10 person hangout limit would be an issue?
<snap-l> rick_h_: We'll cross that bridge when we get there
<rick_h_> rgr
<snap-l> I'd love to have that problem. :)
<jcastro> sure
<snap-l> jcastro: Awesome.
<snap-l> jcastro: WOuld it be better to schedule beforehand or just have something happen organically?
<snap-l> Also, Kerio changed their web interface, and it's now that blasted side-pane shit
<snap-l> I really hate that.
<jcastro> organic pls
<snap-l> jcastro: np
<jcastro> send me a mail too
<snap-l> Will do. I'll also send out an announcement
<jcastro> my secretary handles all my scheduling
<snap-l> You mean your boss, naturally. ;)
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> I usually am not paying attention to things so I double book, etc.
<jcastro> so she just runs everything
<jcastro> all I need to do is show up
<snap-l> Oh, O'Reilly now accepts Paypal
<snap-l> so I can use Paypal directly instead of using my Paypal debit card. ;)
<snap-l> Too easy.
<snap-l> jcastro: We keep our stuff in Google Calendar, so JoDee and I have access to each other's calendars
<snap-l> but JoDee handles the social calendar. :)
<snap-l> It's just easier that way.
<jcastro> we have our own work calendars
<jcastro> and she handles our joint calendar
<jrwren> is it me, or does ubuntu-server installer kind of suck in certain senario? in a classic data center with no DHCP you have to drop to cmdline and use busybox ip/route to configure network? that feels wrong.
<jrwren> is it just a use case which ubuntu-server ignoreds?
<rick_h_> in that case you're probably mass deploying in a scripted way?
<jrwren> that is a different use case.
<jrwren> what of the classic "i just need a server" use case?
<jrwren> its abandoned?
<rick_h_> I just need a server sans dhcp?
<jrwren> yes, i'm a big enough org that my desktop dhcp network is isolated from a lab environment.
<rick_h_> maybe I'm not following. there's network tools
<jrwren> i don't have dhcp in my lab.
<jrwren> hehe, you don't follow. I think that is a good answer, that this is an abandoned user case.
<jrwren> and I'm OK with that.
<jrwren> i'm a bit surprised, and OK with it.
<snap-l> jrwren: Were it me, I'd consider putting up a simple DHCP server
<snap-l> I have DHCP running at home with IPs associated with MAC addresses
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> ty all for your feedback :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh c'mon. Don't shut us out of armchair network admin for your lab. ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: I guess I'm still confused. You can't setup networking manually on the server after boot?
<rick_h_> jrwren: you need network on install and setting it up manually from the installer?
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight. Topic is Puppet: http://www.mug.org/meetings/
<rick_h_> thinking on the MAAS and such but those tend to have dhcp + tftp setup to provide install stuff so even in a mass install dhcp seems to be avail
<jcastro> huh? I thought we did network config on install still
<rick_h_> yea, been a bit since I've done a alt install
<jcastro> jrwren: your question seems to be datalossed since the DC move
<jcastro> that's kind of scary
<jrwren> snap-l: i was being very serious wiht my ty for feedback.
<snap-l> jrwren: Ah, OK.
<jrwren> rick_h_: i was doing virt-install with --location on a bridge network with no DHCP. I htink that is why I''m having issue. that --locaion option really wants DHCP
<jrwren> poll: is it a good idea to write my own bigtable implementation?
<snap-l> jrwren: Explain
<jrwren> too much for irc :)
<jrwren> is there a command which will generate a hashed password for me suitable for shadow? or must I call crypt(3) myself?
<jrwren> nevermind, ctypes ftw.
<snap-l> mutt
<snap-l> Bah
<rick_h_> mutt ftw
<brousch> gmail!
<rick_h_> is a great spam filter...
<snap-l> I <3 for remote mail
<snap-l> mutt, that is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-13
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/18ecca/was_asked_to_slow_down_the_servers_today/
<rick_h_> party party
<jjesse> and boom goes twitter with the state of union
<greg-g> oh right... do I turn the hotel tv back on or not...
<greg-g> decision: not worth the effort
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> wheeee
<snap-l> Y'know, for the amount of people lamenting Opera's engine change, you'd think I'd have more Opera users in my logs.
<brousch> PEople use Opera?
<snap-l> You'd think they did from the amount of kvetching
<brousch> I think jrwren is trolling you
<snap-l> Wouldn't be the first time.
<snap-l> But I doubt it. I think jrwren is sincere
<jcastro> snap-l: btw http://askubuntu.com/questions/3503/best-way-to-cache-apt-downloads-on-a-lan
<jrwren> i'm only sincere in that I value diversity.
<jrwren> i strongly dislike the "1 down, 2 to go" sentiment.
<jrwren> I'd be very disappointed if there was only webkit.
<rick_h_> jrwren: but what do you prefer to webkit? That's my thing. If a new contender came up I'd be happy, but gecko/etc are just not up to snuff
<rick_h_> might as well compete with each other on top of the same kernel imo
<snap-l> I'm not sure Opera was up to snuff, honestly.
<rick_h_> just like RH/Ubuntu/Debian on the same linux kernel
<snap-l> er, Presto
<snap-l> jcastro: Thanks! Will check it out.
<snap-l> jcastro: Does it also cache private repos, or will I have to add those in by hand?
<jrwren> i disagree with all of that.
<jrwren> gecko, opera and trident are all "up to snuff"
<rick_h_> ugh, hate this title though http://ejohn.org/blog/webkit-is-the-jquery-of-browser-engines/
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> That's what I don't understand: all of the webkit hate.
<jrwren> i dont' hate it at all.
<jrwren> its great.
<jrwren> i strongly dislike the sentiment that there should be only webkit.
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't buy that either
<snap-l> Because it won't just be webkit, it'll be IE and webkit and gecko and something else
<brousch> It's not like MS will ever switch
<snap-l> I'm not so certain, but if they do, they'll definitely extend it
<jrwren> i would have agreed with MS never, until I've seen how MS embraced nodejs.
<jrwren> as of yet, ms hasn't extended nodejs in noncompatible ways.
<jrwren> i'm still waiting
<brousch> What are they using node on?
<rick_h_> yea, nodejs and jquery have been fairly cleanly integrated
<rick_h_> brousch: they support it on azure
<rick_h_> it was one of the first non-.net platforms on there
<brousch> That's all?
<rick_h_> they sponsored a ton of work to move to libuv to get it to work on MS platforms
<rick_h_> basically node didn't work on MS at all, then they sponsored a ton of good work and now works pretty well from what I hear
<brousch> That is just them realizing no one wants to run ASP and no one wants to port cool things to Windows
<jrwren> one of the core node devs works for msft IIRC
<jrwren> brousch: we are trying to have a serious discussion. hyperbole like no one wants to run asp -- assuming you mean asp.net -- is not true.
<jrwren> in fact, its not even hyperbole, its flat out false.
<brousch> Fair enough
<jrwren> strategically i can't figure out what msft is doing with it other than tooling. but they don't make $$$ on tooling.
<jrwren> msft is a sinking ship.
<brousch> They make money because node can be run on Azure. It's a way to bring in "the cool kids" to their cloud platform
<brousch> Given a choice, most of the developers I've encountered would not use MS. They only do so because they are paid to use it
<jcastro> snap-l: yeah you need to whitelist some domains on the server piece, it's in the "3rd party" section of my post.
<jcastro> snap-l: iirc we added some common ones commented out.
<jcastro> I don't get the webkit or the opera hate either
<jrwren> my impression from talking to 'azure people' is that there are not a lot of paying customers.
<jrwren> a couple of big profile ones like nbc for olympics, but its not very wide spread.
<jcastro> it's not in GA yet that's why
<jrwren> azure?
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> most azure servies are GA w/ production support
<jrwren> oh, you mean node specifically?
<brousch> jrwren: It's for the same reason. given a choice, most developers I know would not use Azure
<jrwren> brousch: I would have agreed and been one until I first deployed to it. its pretty much just like heroku now. git push to deploy the node app.
<jrwren> the only thing I have against it is cost - its pretty expensive.
<brousch> Azure is windows, right?
<jcastro> jrwren: the compute thing isn't GA, the IAAS compete-with-amazon part.
<jrwren> i see.
<jcastro> soon though
<jcastro> the tools are all node, it's pretty nice
<jrwren> brousch: its called "Windows Azure" so yes :)
<brousch> So to ensure your stuff will run properly on it, you should be developing on Windows
<jcastro> nope, Linux is 100% supported
<brousch> So you can run a Linux server on Azure?
<jrwren> brousch: i really don't understand. you write nodejs.
<jrwren> or yes, for IAAS stuff you can run Linux on Azure.
<jcastro> brousch: yep, full support from MS and Canonical too: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/canonical-partners-with-microsoft-to-support-ubuntu-on-azure/
<jcastro> dun dun dun!
<brousch> Fascinating
<jrwren> the part where it will really suck is if you use SQL... its gonna be MSSQL and not Postgresql :(
<jjesse> brousch, if i remember correctly the Hypervisor is MS Hypervisor
<jrwren> well, unless you run and install postgresql on an IAAS
<jrwren> but I was refering to paas
<jrwren> yes, its HyperV.
<jjesse> so whatever is supported on Hyper-V should run on Azure
<jrwren> remember when MS sent the huge patch to linux kernel?
<jjesse> yup
<jcastro> I don't care about paas, there's plenty of choice in paas, what's needed is more iaas competition, IMO of course
<jcastro> _someone_ needs to compete with amazon
<brousch> Doesn't rackspace?
<jcastro> their new cloud is still beta
<jcastro> HPs is still beta
<jcastro> Google's is still beta
<jcastro> Azure's is still beta
<jrwren> jcastro: seriously?
<jrwren> i feel exactly the oposite.
<jcastro> meanwhile Amazon is printing money.
<brousch> Google is doing IAAS?
<jcastro> yep
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> google compute
<jrwren> plenty of choice in Iaas, and very little in paas :)
<brousch> Oh right
<jcastro> jrwren: most of the "iaas" I see is just some resold VPS garbage with "Cloud" stuck on the front.
<rick_h_> how so in paas? There seems to be a ton of them
<jcastro> I mean real scalable IAAS, like, Netflix scale
<jjesse> i don't see anything about Azure being a beta product
<jcastro> if you want IAAS and you need to scale AWS is your only real choice
<jrwren> jcastro: there are half a dozen vendors selling openstack clouds.
<jcastro> brousch: https://cloud.google.com/products/compute-engine
<jcastro> jrwren: and they will be awesome, just not right now.
<jrwren> so not VPS garbage with cloud on the front, but openstack with cloud on the front.
<jrwren> AWS's IAAS is NOT waht makes netflix be netflix scale.
<jrwren> netflix programers design decision is what makes netflix be that scale.
<jcastro> don't get me wrong, openstack clouds are the future, but there's no killer customer at scale on openstack clouds yet
<rick_h_> yea, really hoping dreamhost/rackspace/hp can get up and running 100% and complete against AWS. Google would be nice but they just seem to care about BIG deploys right now
<jrwren> a vast majority of systems running on aws iaas use it just like hosted servers and when there is an infra outage, htey go down.
<jcastro> jrwren: netflix is very much scalable in large part to aws, I was at the session where they talked about it
<jcastro> I mean, their architecture is also very smart
<jrwren> jcastro: i strongly disagree. I too was at the session where they talked about it, and had some beer with Carl Quinn taht weekend.
<rick_h_> jrwren: just because a tool has options doesn't make people use it.
<jrwren> rick_h_: exactly.
<jcastro> jrwren: we should drink beer and argue again like old times
<jrwren> jcastro: indeed we should. and you are closer than ever!
<rick_h_> and EBS has gotten a few different updates to make cross region deploys easier as part of those downtimes
<jrwren> jcastro: want to come to Learn something @ fanzoo Feb 27th?
<jcastro> what is fanzoo?
<jrwren> IIRC netflix doesn't use ebs at all.
<jcastro> no one uses EBS, not even amazon. :)
<jrwren> jcastro: a tiny consulting company in AA
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, because they know better but it's a big reason other people go down
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, I see your point. that is what I was saying too.
<jcastro> anyway, tldr, linux on azure works just fine
<jrwren> jcastro: 4th wednesdays they host a code jam style get together were you really just hang out drink beer, work on software or wahtever and talk about it with other people
<jcastro> jrwren: where do they meet?
<rick_h_> jrwren: CHC!
<jrwren> jcastro: at fanzoo technologies in AA - its at Ann and Ashley right downtown
<jcastro> oh rock and roll
<jcastro> I can probably do that, I have a car now
<jrwren> YAY for cars!
<jrwren> tldr: linux on azure works just fine. building your own cloud with a 12.10 iso and the maas boot option - not so much :p
<jcastro> hey man, sign up for a jumpstart and pay me and I'll be more than happy, lol
<jcastro> <--- can't set it up either.
<jrwren> we've had a couple guys trying it and both failed independantly.
<jrwren> it works if you do things EXACTLY right, but as soon as ANYTHING is different - fail.
<jrwren> like we have multi nics so spearate mgmt network and cloud network and NOPE
<jrwren> all fail
<jcastro> send me your problems, I can have people look at them
<jcastro> very quickly too
<jrwren> that is what I keep telling the guys here - i'm tell 'em, talk to jcastro, he is local - but they never do.
<jcastro> anything openstack or maas related I can get looked at
<jcastro> or hell, file a bug
<jrwren> I've not had to do it myself, so I've not directly experienced the pain or success, but I'll let them know.
<jcastro> DO NOT SUFFER IN SILENCE
<UnFixed> not sure who it was that mentioned the MUG meeting last night, but thanks.
<snap-l> But suffering in silence is webscale.
<UnFixed> i saw it beofre leaving work
<UnFixed> decided to head over, enjoyed it
<snap-l> UnFixed: I think that was me. :)
<snap-l> Welcome. :)
<UnFixed> :D
<snap-l> Hope you can make it back to the upcoming meetings
<snap-l> should be some good ones coming up
<UnFixed> farmington is a little out of my way, but i do plan to try to make it to some
<snap-l> (note: I'm on the board, so take that with the appropriate disclaimers)
<UnFixed> any idea on what the topics for the following meetings are?
<UnFixed> someone skimmed through them at the meeting, but i can't recall them
<rick_h_> http://blog.ziade.org/2013/02/13/fun-with-angularjs-amp-cornice/ for some pyramid/cornice/app love
<snap-l> UnFixed: We have a calendar of upcoming events under mug.org/meetings
<UnFixed> found it just a moment ago
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/ical&reset=1&list=1&html=1
<UnFixed> i didnt see the link at the bottom of the page
<UnFixed> thanks
<snap-l> Yeah, it doesn't jump out unfortunately
<jrwren> jcastro: sellers just said we should take you to lunch sometime to talk openstack and maas
<jcastro> awww yeah
<jrwren> im gonna see if he wants to today. you up for lunch today?
<snap-l> Must be nice. :)
<jrwren> which part?
<snap-l> The going to lunch part. :)
<jrwren> ah, nope, people are all busy here.  another time and SOON
<jrwren> whoa, cool https://launchpad.net/~zfs-native/+archive/stable
<rick_h_> upvites
<rick_h_> bah
<rick_h_> upvotes appreciated: http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/18h0vg/a_pebble_users_first_impressions_and_feedback/
<greg-g> I just got this email from Carrie: "Rowan just peed on the back deck, came inside to get a rag, and is now wiping it up."
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> he's 14 months, effing crazy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-14
<ColonelPanic001> no one cares when I go out back and pee on the deck
<ColonelPanic001> it's just a bunch of "omg you're drunk" and "that's indecent exposure"
<jjesse> ummm that's weird
<greg-g> jjesse: I think you missed my message for context?
<greg-g> I just got this email from Carrie: "Rowan just peed on the back deck, came inside to get a rag, and is now wiping it up."
<snap-l> Yeah, that's weird. :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> I love how Google takes support requests and calls them "suggestions". ;)
<snap-l> "we do not make mistakes. we are google. beep beep beep"
<snap-l> "It is impossible for us to charge you twice for the same app. boop beep boop"
<brousch> I almost posted a link here to a Pebble review. Then I noticed it was from rick_h_
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
 * brousch hits the coffee
<rick_h_> I win one internet point
<brousch> 9 more and you can buy a kitten
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> and then I can kill that kitten by boot windows
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h_> you know, memes like "every time you boot windows god kills a kitten"
<rick_h_> I couldn't think of a good one off the top of my head :/
<rick_h_> it was funnier in my head I know :P
<brousch> You could certainly kill it by masturbating
<snap-l> Boot to Windows while masturbating, and be extra efficient.
<brousch> Which will finish first?
<snap-l> Depends on the hardware
<brousch> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f38f/?cpg=51506275&msg_id=51506275&et_rid=786232919&linkid=51506275_headline_f38f
<snap-l> I wonder what switches are in there.
<snap-l> It doesn't say. Hmm...
<snap-l> http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_switch
<snap-l> So it's a modified ALPS
<snap-l> Hmmm....
<_stink_> i love you guys - just pasted that kitten killing exchange to another channel.
<_stink_> prepare to be famous.
<brousch> I know iOS 6 can break Exchange, but kittens?
<ColonelPanic001> it was wonderful
<ColonelPanic001> what was the aforementioned pebble?
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2013/02/13/pebble-first-impressions/
<snap-l> _stink_: The only other channel you've joined on freenode is bookie
<brousch> He's also on proprietarynode
<jcastro> rick_h_: The one downside is that when you do pull your phone out thereâs a bunch of notifications to dismiss and you want to make sure you got them all.
<snap-l> brousch: Who gave you crack this morning?
<jcastro> newer android has a "dismiss all" button in the pull down, it's basically awesome
<jcastro> btw
<brousch> snap-l: Biggby's
<ColonelPanic001> oh, right, I remember this pebble thing. It looked like it could be neat
<snap-l> brousch: Ah. Got the double crack soy latte, eh?
<jcastro> rick_h_: wait, if you have a galaxy nexus you should have that button
<brousch> snap-l: Decaf soy nutty buddy
<snap-l> I wish there was a button on mailing lists for "please ignore this thread for the next two hours, because it's only going to generate a flamewar or "me too" noise"
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, hoping they can work on that
<snap-l> was re: Penguicon mail etiquette flamewar that is brewing.
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I have the clear button, but it just says "3 texts" and I end up looking to make sure I saw them all
<brousch> Oh those are fun
<brousch> DIAF bottom posters!
<rick_h_> DITF top posters
<snap-l> now now, we all know the one true way to handle email responses
<snap-l> don't respond. ever. :)
<rick_h_> straight to trash?
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> Now top posters and bottom posters can live in harmony.
<jcastro> rick_h_: oh oh, I see what you mean
<jcastro> rick_h_: the only thing I hate is the notification spam from apps for updates
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea
<jcastro> just update, I don't care that 4 of my games are updated, don't mix that in with important messages, ffs
<rick_h_> jcastro: and the clearing of the notification on tablet/phone
<rick_h_> with tablet/phone/GVoice extension on my browser, and watch it's getting nuts to clear a text from the wife
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I <3 the browser extensioin though, I do all my work from it
<jcastro> I don't even dial numbers anymore, I type in there, pick up phone. Blam, instant rick, no numbers required.
<rick_h_> yea, definitely
<rick_h_> nice to text the wife with a real keyboard all day
<snap-l> Yeah, the browser extension is awesome.
<rick_h_> now if firefox doesn't have one lmorchard can write it :P
<_stink_> snap-l: yeah, chatspike
<_stink_> it's exclusive and velvety
<snap-l> Thank you for being a G.H. Bass & Co. Rewards member! Your point total as of last Sunday is 69.
<snap-l> I am upset they didn't add "duuuuudes" after that.
<rick_h_> bummer dude
<snap-l> I know. I consider it a missed opportunity.
<rick_h_> I love tech: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> Yeah, that's a great teardown.
<snap-l> Scary they can gather that much data, but at least they surface it
<dzho> that's what some other friends were talking about OMG SCARY SURVEILLANCE
<dzho> but I pointed out that usually you don't give the car back to the manufacturer after a trip
<dzho> OnStar, however, freaks me out.
<snap-l> That and how much of that data is already collected by the car?
<dzho> I would hope quite a lot of it.
<dzho> this just in:  RMS refuses ride in Tesla car, claims proprietary source of control systems oppresses him.
<dzho> not that the entire transportation system isn't rife with proprietary software.
<dzho> trains, planes AND automobiles
<snap-l> cheap shot. :)
<snap-l> I think it's safe to say RMS can't travel anywhere outside of bicycle or walking that isn't goverend by proprietary software
<dzho> yup.
<dzho> his lines in the sand get drawn in . . . interesting ways.
<snap-l> http://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html#11_February_2013_(Urgent:_Boycott_Hersheys_and_Dagoba_chocolate)
<dzho> snap-l: was there a particular item you meant to link to?
<snap-l> That was just the latest in there
<snap-l> that site is the anti-Tufte.
<dzho> quite
<dzho> anyway, my identica account was subbed to his account, which forwards all those, iirc.
<snap-l> Although Tufte's site is pretty busy for a design / information guy
<snap-l> http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/
<dzho> it's too wide
<dzho> haha, he sells graph paper
<rick_h_> yea, the data was collected beause it was a media review and was disclosed as part of getting the test unit from what I understand
<rick_h_> but I have to say I think it would be cool to get a statement like that from my car
<rick_h_> thinking fitbit for my car
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> "I believe I'm getting 23.4 MPG, when my average is 27MPG. I've scheduled a tune-up"
<snap-l> "Be a good boy and drive me to the shop next Thursday at 2pm"
<rick_h_> I got thinking that this is how we'll get self driving cars though
<rick_h_> if I had a system always checking me for over speed/etc driving I'd give up and just let the self driving do it. It'd be no fun
<rick_h_> every time I floor it I get an insurance micro payment charge, over speed limit I'd get a speed ticket auto charged, etc
<snap-l> Yeah, at that point the damn car should just drive me to the destinatio
<snap-l> n
<snap-l> Ubuntu 12.04.02 is released.
<brousch> woohoo!
<brousch> It should be the best Ubuntu evar!
<snap-l> Just in time for a bunch of QT and flash updates.
<snap-l> Seriously, I'd like to know who is bucking for most insecure company: Oracle or Adobe.
<brousch> It is a tight race. Which of them uses more Rails?
<snap-l> hah, true
<brousch> It lives! http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920027072.do
<jcastro> https://www.elance.com/j/website-like-amazon/37294947/
<dzho> if you build it for $750, they will come
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-15
<snap-l> I'm surprised the Python Cookbook is existing
<snap-l> I want to take that elance job for "build me amazon"
<snap-l> and tell that chucklefuck "please pay in advance"
<snap-l> and then make a static page with links to amazon, dice, ebay, and craigslist.
<snap-l> Jammin' mail sent
<jjesse> ok quick question if anyone is around easiest mail server w/ webmail access to setup for testing some things (no external mail, not routing to anywhere else)
<jjesse> is squirrel mail still used?
<snap-l> squirrelmail or roundcube were what I used
<snap-l> I don't remember if The Horde was that easy to install, but I think it was a little more involved.
<jjesse> ok
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/apples-lightning-chips-contain-manufacturer-specific-serial-numbers/ <- This shit needs to stop
<jjesse> welcome to closed source of apple
<snap-l> I'm never buying anything else from Apple
<jjesse> which is probably worse than MS ever was
<snap-l> seriously this is crap
<snap-l> jcastro: Dude, you need to get in on this: http://shirish.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> The Megadeth cover is something special
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Tron-Uprising-Inspired-digital-booklet/dp/B00AIN9MQ2/ref=pd_sim_dmusic_a_6
<rick_h_> everyone go change your pypi password yet?
<snap-l> were that I had one...
<snap-l> I just created one using OpenID. ;)
<snap-l> Actually used my Launchpad account as well.
<rick_h_> time to upload a library
<snap-l> Yeah, but which one? :)
 * snap-l will need to write a library first. :)
<snap-l> Also: just made my second Leopold Cherry Black purchase.
<snap-l> Now I'll be stalking the UPS guy again
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> And got a set of Windows replacement keys for each board.
<snap-l> Held off on the red escape keys and the keyboard wisk
<snap-l> er, puller. ;)
<brousch> 2 keyboards? Did you grow another set of arms?
<rick_h_> anyone have a link to that python meetup in detroit area?
<snap-l> rick_h_: not offhand
<snap-l> brousch: No, but I do have two locations to sit at
<snap-l> home and office
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> recall where it was posted? my searching is having trouble
<snap-l> and rick_h_'s diabolical plan to replace every keyboard with something that sounds like a gun range is working. :)
<snap-l> I thought it was on meetup
<rick_h_> ah found it I think
<rick_h_> https://www.quickenloanscareers.com/web/ApplyNow.aspx?ReqID=53774 in case anyone is interested
<rick_h_> got that email and a recruiter call yesterday. Must have known I was having a bad day
<snap-l> What does Doodle Home Do?
<rick_h_>  building an online platform to help interior designers run their studios more efficiently
<rick_h_> according to the job description
<snap-l> Yeah, I just found that interesting.
<brousch> It has Quicken in the name, but it's a Python job. This is hurting my brain
<snap-l> Primary focus will be working in Python 2.7, Pylons/Pyramid 1.3 and mongoDB
<snap-l> moar mongodb pls
<rick_h_> brousch: quicken sponsors/etc a lot of start up stuff in dtw
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> the building they're in is one of the rennovated ones by the Quicken bossman
<snap-l> Yeah, they're the coolest evil company here
<snap-l> they're our Amway.
<snap-l> That and Compuware
<brousch> Wow, 401k and health care from a start-up?
<widox> rick_h_: it was on meetup.com
<rick_h_> widox: thanks, found it
<widox> you thinking about hitting it up?
<rick_h_> not really, but figured I'd pass it along to the guy that hit me up about the DTW python web dev position ^^
<rick_h_> the job is pyramid/python so at least this recruiter guy matched me up decently
<widox> ah
<snap-l> Man, this has been a fun tech day.
<brousch> My Transformer Pad Infinity should arrive today
<brousch> My HP Touchpad died and I needed something soon for all my Kivy talks. Luckily we got a bonus this year
<snap-l> Very cool.
<rick_h_> gah!!!!! people please package your crap correctly
<rick_h_> if I pip install your dippy thing, it better not complain about missing modules when I run it!!
<brousch> RTFM!
<snap-l> is G+ doen for anyone else?
<rick_h_> nope
<jrwren> blocked at work!
<jrwren> :p
<snap-l> Huh, it's acting weird here.
<snap-l> Bad tech day.
<snap-l> There was an error. Please try again later.
<jjesse> morning
<brousch> jrwren: Google+ is blocked at your work?
<snap-l> No, he was suggesting it was blocked at mine
<snap-l> which, had I not been at home, might be true
<jrwren> no, i was teasing snap-l :)
<brousch> That makes sense. I was really surprised you would work at some place that blocked G+
<jrwren> we are arbor networks, we don't block anything.
<snap-l> Yeah, well it's not loading for me. There must be something wrong with my account.
<jrwren> however, we test our own devices and our competetors devices on our live inet - so absolutely every bit that comes to me is tracked.
<jrwren> they are spying on me!!!
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> I'd expect nothing less.
<snap-l> I think we're hitting the terrible 8 months with Pixel
<jcastro> jrwren: we're doing lunch on thursday!
<snap-l> "EliteKeyboards is owned and operated by Maineko LLC"
<snap-l> I believe that is supposed to be mai neko, which means beautiful cat in Japanese.
<rick_h_> now who's a keyboard snob :P
<snap-l> Heh. ;)
<snap-l> You made me
<jrwren> jcastro: we are? SWEET!
<jrwren> rick_h_: I just said to hell with it all and instead of pip install just copied from one virtualenv's site packages to another.
<snap-l> Ouch
<snap-l> jrwren: THat's not a long-term solution
<jrwren> the hell it isn't.
<jrwren> no inet access required.
<jrwren> its simple and it works.
<jrwren> for pure python anyway.
<jrwren> for c source, I'll figure something else out
<snap-l> When it comes to bite you in the ass, please remember my smirking mug. ;)
<jrwren> i will.
<rick_h_> jrwren: ;P
<snap-l> jcastro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tgMcyT5DX0k#!
<rick_h_> brilliant! https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/302465037849743360
<jrwren> i love that.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/StvWinter/status/302476722702532608/photo/1
<snap-l> That's one for the old farts in the room
<jrwren> well that will make me click it.
<jrwren> wtf is that?
<snap-l> The original DnD Basic Set artwork
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> The Holmes Edition
<snap-l> aka the Blue Box
<snap-l> At some point I misplaced mine, and I have NFC where it is
<snap-l> I'm pretty sure the box is torn to pieces.
<rick_h_> man, giong through amazon purchases through the last year tells a story
<jrwren> yup
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not liking the story? :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: just interesting, don't realize how much stuff was recent, stuff forgotten about
<rick_h_> stuff bought for the boy that has a story
<rick_h_> just an interesting window going back through it all
<snap-l> Mine says "Man has lot of balls"
<snap-l> (two ball chairs)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-16
<snap-l> The one thing that I really hate about ordering from Elite Keyboards is they take FOREVER to ship
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh yea
<rick_h_> amazon spoils us
<rick_h_> I had fits when I ordered the tools that had a 8wk+ wait time
<rick_h_> I'm over 10wks on on thing still not shipped :(
<snap-l> Haven't even seen anything even remotely like a "we got your order"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Are they chisleing them out of moon rocks?
<snap-l> Jeez, 10wks is too much
<rick_h_> heh, you'd think
<snap-l> There's only so many times you can stalk the UPS guy before he gets cranky.
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/wii-u-has-historically-bad-january-sells-about-50000-units-in-us/
<snap-l> I think we're in the midst of another video game crash
<derekv> wounderful friday =]
<derekv> whats a good way to say "I'm not sure we've met" in an email to someone I am trying to impress?
<derekv> Going to apply at Canonical and Mozilla.
<derekv> Any tips?
<jrwren> be awesome.
<derekv> check.
<jrwren> for what kind of work are you looking? arbor networks is hiring :)   its the best play around.
<derekv> ;)
<derekv> I want to work on products I beleive in.  I want to be able to say that what I'm doing is somehow compelling.
<derekv> I'm trying to swing it so that I make some income while doing it.
<derekv> Maybe that's more broad then what you meant... =]
<jrwren> playing a game of sc2, but I'd like to chat abou tit.
<jrwren> do you know what arbor networks does?
<derekv> np
<derekv> DDoS protection, security, professional services.
<derekv> Security is an interest of mine.
<rick_h_>  ls
<snap-l> bad command or filename. ;)
<snap-l> Evening. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-17
<derekv> dood
<Blazeix> rick_h_: a friend just posted this screenshot of his watch/build-system integration :) http://mrozekma.com/pebble-build-notification.jpg
<Blazeix> implemented via redis subscribe
<snap-l> Oh, that's nice.
<derekv> is there a pyramid equivlent of flask-admin
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live!!  Video  http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=bADUZVqcf9M , Audio - http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<rick_h_> Blazeix: lol, awesome
<rick_h_> wonder how he hooked it up, looks like it's not the usual 'send a text' setup
<rick_h_> derekv: there's some stuff like formalchemy that supposedly will do that stuff. Honestly, cli on the db ftw, or scripts. Test helpers like makeUser and such are darn handy sometimes
<rick_h_droid> party
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_droid> morn
<snap-l> "Thank you for your order from EliteKeyboards!
<snap-l> This e-mail confirms that your order has been received and is
<snap-l> now being processed."
<snap-l> That's this morning.
<snap-l> I think I'll need to get some paper bags to stop hyperventilating. :)
<snap-l> "I am patient, I am patient, I am IT TOOK YOU FUCKING TWO DAYS JUST TO LOOK AT MY ORDER!???!?!?!?!!?! BLARGHALGHAGHLGHAGLAGHAGLAGHAGAGLAGHAGLA"
<snap-l> And no doubt UPS will take a while to even get my order into their system
<snap-l> patience... patience....
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z1WW70R88w
<rick_h_> snap-l: it'll be ok
<jrwren> why does python drive me mad?
<rick_h_> jrwren: because it's not .net?
<jrwren> no, becuase i'm shitty.
<jrwren> not so much .net as F#.
<jrwren> i just wish python was f# :)
<rick_h_> yea, guess it's not going to be that
<Blazeix> jrwren: have you seen http://dev-tricks.net/pipe-infix-syntax-for-python
<jrwren> yes, I use it :)
<jrwren> hell, i sent 'em a pull request for F# window function
<Blazeix> haha, nice
<jrwren> i LOVE that pipe library
<jrwren> in this case, i was complaining that python wasn't reading my mind :)
<rick_h_> *grumble, wives not able to hold onto documentation when you need it...*
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-10
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I see the grown-up watch arrived.
<rick_h_> cmaloney:   :)
<rick_h_> it's purdy
<rick_h_> cmaloney: looking at getting NC headphones and unsure whose reviews to trust. Do you know who the dpreview of audio gear would be?
<cmaloney> NC headphones?
<cmaloney> Ah, noise canceling.
<cmaloney> Honestly I wouldn't trust any of them
<cmaloney> To me noise canceling adds some tricks to try to get the outside world to shut up
<cmaloney> That said I'd trust the reviews on Amazon over most of them.
<cmaloney> Most audi sites have an agenda.
<cmaloney> audio rather
<cmaloney> ie: audiophile sites who think anything less than $500 is consumer crap
<cmaloney> and other sites who think Skullcandy is A-OK
<cmaloney> I haven't found one that isn't biased in some way
<cmaloney> Mostly what I'll do is find a few on Amazon and check around to see what folks think of them.
<cmaloney> Also I'd use some headphones that you already know (Grados, Etys, etc) as baselines
<cmaloney> and see what others would recommend
<cmaloney> because frankly they all add some coloring to the music and the trick is figuring out what color / flavor you likel
<cmaloney> like, even
<cmaloney> Also those Etys that you picked up for me are exceptional at noise canceling
<cmaloney> noise isolating rather
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, it's purely for travel. 18hrs on a plane with that drumming I want to kick out
<rick_h_> cmaloney: the issue is amazon reviews say to get the bose qc15 but I can't get over that it's bose
<rick_h_> and morning, happy that after a 7hr time change I only managed to wake up one hour early
<rick_h_> yay jetlag
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> yeah, im no fan of bose either
<cmaloney> but if its audio tricks you're looking for over sound quality, they have tricks galore. :)
<rick_h_> heh yea
<rick_h_> it's crazy because everyone review you see picks something different
<rick_h_> and they're $$ enough I'm kind of meh on buying blind I guess at this ponit. Maybe I really do need a store
<cmaloney> be sure to take your iwn music with you
<cmaloney> their canned shit sounds great no matter what
<rick_h_> yea, I mean I took my earbuds with me on this trip
<rick_h_> I like them well enough and they plug the ears up well
<rick_h_> but after so many hours even they got uncomfortable and didn't block out the low level noises
<rick_h_> so they'd be plane-cans really
<rick_h_> maybe I'm just sensitive after going through 23hrs sitting on a plane
<cmaloney> I think that's the biggest part. :)
<rick_h_> but I'll be traveling more now so figure time to invest in them
<cmaloney> After 23 hours I think even a symphony orchestra would make you want to go spare.
<rick_h_> but yea, some knee jerk in there for sure
<cmaloney> Well, you have a Bose store at Great Lakes Crossing
<rick_h_> ugh, bose sales weasels
<cmaloney> so it's not like you couldn't drop down there to give them a test run
<rick_h_> yea...
<cmaloney> Hey, take your phone and some of your best sounding and most familiar music
<rick_h_> I feel so slimy. Why do the others all have to not work out as well
<rick_h_> right
<cmaloney> and also your blues music that sounds like it was recorded via a GE tape recorder
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> and see how it works
<cmaloney> (I'm using a for-instance. Most folks bring their music that is a testament to the recording engineer)
<rick_h_> yea, I'm not super worried about the sound quality as far as music goes. I spent more of my time on podcasts and audible books. Occassional soundtrack
<rick_h_> yea, good call
<cmaloney> Then yeah, you're looking for something to cancel the noise in-between the words
<rick_h_> yea, which is what they're supposed to be best for unfortunately in looking at reviews
<cmaloney> As sick as it may sound they may be your best bet
<cmaloney> but yeah, $300+ for Bose == threw up in my mouth a bit
<rick_h_> www.amazon.com/dp/B006S8DS8E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=IONZSTDNZBGLN
<rick_h_> www.amazon.com/dp/B007TTD7VO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=IQXAY0GHPWYST
<rick_h_> www.amazon.com/dp/B0054JJ0QW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=I1CUHVE96WDMCV
<rick_h_> those are the three I've been going between
<cmaloney> Wow, those PSBs are pricey.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> so I'm looking at "are they better than the bose and worth the extra $$"
<cmaloney> not familiar with the brand
<rick_h_> so the psb is a new brand. This is their first headphone
<rick_h_> and supposedly they're the best quality of the bunch
<rick_h_> sound great even sans NC
<rick_h_> comes with a build in amp
<cmaloney> http://www.psbspeakers.com/dealers
<rick_h_> even aside from NC
<cmaloney> There's one in Southfield.
<cmaloney> There's two dealers in Clarkston
<rick_h_> hah wtf
<cmaloney> Give 'em a call and see if they have those headphones for trial
<rick_h_> yea, no kidding
<cmaloney> (I feel like I've done a bad thing. ;) )
<rick_h_> hey I got permission from the wife...except I didn't tell her they'd be this much :/
<cmaloney> "So I was out and about and headed over to my hifi buddies at the ESSI and they said I should get the $6,000 tube amp, but I said... "
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> I think they're the same company, so there's only one near you.
<cmaloney> Same address
<cmaloney> http://www.soundcheckllc.com/Sports-Simulators-Michigan.html <- Oh, here you go
<rick_h_> ah, well if it's around it'll do
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Good morning again. :)
<brousch> again?
<wolfger> good morning
<brousch> wolfger: Welcome to #ubuntu-us-mi! Are you new here?
<wolfger> I am! What is this "Ubuntu" thing?
<cmaloney> wolfger:  What the heck? Did the great firewall of Chrysler come tumbling down?
<cmaloney> You post on my site and now this? :)
<cmaloney> It's not even my birthday.
<wolfger> I work for Sandalwood now, and I'm on the Chrysler Saltillo project. Which means... when I'm not actually on-site in Mexico, I can work from home. Suck it, Chrysler. :-)
<cmaloney> Ah very cool. Didn't realize you'd made the switch.
<cmaloney> You still in MI?
<cmaloney> http://www.sandalwood.com/
<cmaloney> Ah nice. Livonia.
<brousch> Sounds like a resort
<cmaloney> Coming from Chrysler it likely is
<wolfger> Yeah, our office is in Livonia, but I've never set foot in it (sort of).
<cmaloney> I know what you mean. :)
<wolfger> I was in the office for my interview, but we've moved since then, so technically I've never set foot in our current office.
<jrwren> and on that note, I'm off to the office :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: You work in Ann Arbor. That's like going to Carnival. ;)
<cmaloney> wolfger: That's very cool!
<jrwren> cmaloney: i drive through downtown, not work in it :(
<jrwren> so I have to drive through a carnival on my way to work. That does sound about right.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> ugh. JUst realized I left a bag of dried cranberries open over the weekend
<wolfger> driving through Ann Arbor (if you don't just stay on the interstate) is like having a dentist appt every day
<cmaloney> they got even chewier than they were.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lol, they were already dried :P
<wolfger> Ugh. Sadly, I still have to interface with Chrysler people. :-p
<cmaloney> rick_h_: They were nasty.
<cmaloney> wolfger: I have friends that still work there. I don't think I would have lasted there much after I left.
<wolfger> Does gamerchick still work there?
<cmaloney> I think so
<wolfger> My problem isn't so much with the nasty people... I can handle them. My problem is with the stupid people.
<cmaloney> wolfger: There do seem to be an inordinate amount of them at times.
<wolfger> I hate to ask this in a Linux channel, but... does anybody know why Outlook insists in "working offline" when I am on the VPN, and if/how I can change that? I have to hit send/receive every time I send an e-mail, or periodically to receive new mail.
<wolfger> I'm at a loss to find any setting for this
<cmaloney> wolfger: NFC.
<cmaloney> Could be part of their policy settings for VPN users?
<wolfger> I'm guessing so
<brousch> cmaloney: Who do you play all of these games with? Just your wife or do you have a group?
<cmaloney> brousch: Usually just with JoDee, though sometimes we have folks over to play them
<cmaloney> though my biggest problem is getting them played.
<cmaloney> (and some might argue my biggest problem is I'm addicted to buying games)
<brousch> I played chess and Khet 2 with George last weekend. It was good
<cmaloney> Nice!
<brousch> He is not good at all, but it's encouraging when he finishes a game
<cmaloney> Yeah, chess has a lot of moving pieces to it
<brousch> Usually it's Minecraft PE and LEGO PS3 games
<brousch> Before every having played he said "Chess is easy. You just have to get the other guy's king." So he agreed to play with me. We set it all up, then he reached over and took my king. "See!"
<cmaloney> I office-loled.
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_Go
<brousch> Then we played a real game where I walked through some decisions with him
<wolfger> LOL
<cmaloney> How old is George? 4?
<brousch> 6
<cmaloney> Wow, so he's ready for all sorts of games
<brousch> Uno is his favorite
<cmaloney> There's a game called "Hey, that's my fish" that he might like
<cmaloney> Has Penguins on hex ice floes
<cmaloney> also Fish Cook is pretty fun.
<cmaloney> But that one you'll need additional components
<cmaloney> http://cheapass.com/node/105
<cmaloney> There's a printed version that retails for under $18.
<cmaloney> http://cheapass.com/games/fishcook $15.
<brousch> Sounds kind of slow
<cmaloney> Not really. There's some good decisions in there.
<wolfger> I found a game called Tsuro that is really quick (read: for short attention spans) and simple that people of all ages seem to enjoy.
<wolfger> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/16992/tsuro
<wolfger> They call it "15 minutes", but I think the night I introduced it to my gaming buddies it took all of 12 minutes, including the time it took me to explain the rules.
<cmaloney> Yeah, Tsuro is pretty good
<cmaloney> I think it works better with more than 2 players.
<wolfger> 2 is fine, but more players is definitely better
<wolfger> I'd like to get a full 8 player game sometime
<brousch> rick_h_: BTW, LEGO movie was great
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, found out my wife and son went to it while I was gone !
<rick_h_> a repeat trip must be schedueld!
<brousch> hah!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: definitely.
<smoser> jrwren, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/ubuntu/precise/cloud-init/precise-lp-1244355/+merge/205614
<smoser> i cleaned up your pathc a bit and porposed the merge bacck into your branch.
<smoser> from there, once the current -proposed cloud-init is through, we can upload.
<smoser> thanks.
<jrwren> thans smoser
<jrwren> wtf is that .pc directory?
<jrwren> and why is the entire file there instead of just diff to that file?
<jrwren> these quilt style debs has inspired me to never want to manage packages, ever. I think I'd rather run an rpm based distro... only 1/2 kidding.
<smoser> jrwren, .pc is quilt patch directory.
<smoser> it makes good sense for applying and managing patches.
<smoser> what does not make sense is versioning it.
<jrwren> its not even a patch, it put the whole file there.
<smoser> so i often 'diff | filterdiff --exclude .pc/*'
<smoser> right. it is.
<jrwren> ugh.
<smoser> its so you can 'quilt pop' and it resotres correctly
<jrwren> and there is value in that?
<smoser> (well, rather that it can pop or tell you ... um that does'nt cleanly pop you should refresh)
<smoser> quilt + revision control of .pc is silly
<jrwren> I don't see the value
<jrwren> oh! its because quilt gets used outside of a rev controlled dir.
<jrwren> so its antiquated b.s.
<jrwren> no wonder I don't value it.
<jrwren> sounds like maybe the debian world needs something that does 1/2 the things taht quilt does and relies on teh underling RC system for the rest.
<smoser> jrwren, antiquated b.s is 90% correct, yes.
<smoser> for some time, i fought the fight you're fighting.
<smoser> but the opponent in this cases is a robot that imports uploads into revision control (ie, the bzr branches are actually derived from packaging)
<smoser> and that robot was more persistent than I was.
<rick_h_> robots always win the patience battle
<jrwren> smoser: yes, I'm not trying to bitch in your direction. Thanks for taking what I sent.
<jrwren> I am glad to have finally learned more about quilt. I've heard about it for years, maybe a decade
<smoser> it actually is really nice.
<smoser> git rebase largely removed its usefullness
<smoser> (and note, there actually is a thing called 'guilt', which is "git" + "quilt")
<cmaloney> http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/3440221-bring-back-classic-visual-basic-an-improved-versi?utm_content=buffer73c10&utm_medium=social&utm_source=plus.google.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<cmaloney> trolololol
<jrwren> smoser: yes, I can see how THAT subset of quilt would be/is nice.
<jrwren> smoser: but also, for your case, why use it at all? why not just rev the 0.6 branch of your software and call it a new version and don't even distro rev the package version?
<smoser> well, the distro revision control just happens.
<smoser> you dont hav eto use it.
<smoser> but uploading a "new upstream tarball" for each upload would be contrary to the way almost all distros work.
<smoser> ie, typically, kyou have an upstream tarball release, and the distro consumes that. and then applies some small set of patches.
<smoser> thats what the work flow is optimized for.
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> but in this specific case, you own both ends.
<jrwren> so you could remove all the distro patches and just rev your stuff
<jrwren> basically everything is a new upstream.
<jrwren> I guess I see your point that new upstream tarball can be a bummer, I don't run a distro, so I don't see that as a drawback :)
<jrwren> and our repositories that we do run... well, we don't care about source  repos :)
<cmaloney> https://ting.com/blog/we-will-sell-you-a-nexus-5-if-we-must/
<smoser> jrwren, fwiw, i generally do what you're suggesting during the development cycle.
<smoser> cloud-init in trusty at the moment is a snapshot of a bzr branch.
<smoser> but then near release, i make a release of cloud-init.
<smoser> possibly the combined approach creates the worst of all possible worlds :)
<jrwren> smoser: ah, so I just caught the worst possible point in time :)
<smoser> basically, i treate the ubuntu development release as an extension of cloud-init development.
<smoser> but then for release of ubuntu want to package something that is considered by upstrema to be "stable"
<_stink_> ...
<cmaloney> ...
<cmaloney> ___________: Seriously?
<greg-g> I shall call him "Fill in the blank"
<___________> :D!
<_stink_> call him whatever you want - that's what i do.
<___________> it is :(
<brousch> I dub him "Late for dinner"
<___________> it's mostly to taunt someone with IRC troubles in #waynestatelug
<_stink_> my choice is "Gaze Lingers a Touch Too Long"
<___________> 15:23:41 < jayis__> just wait til you get a _
<greg-g> _stink_++
<___________> not to mention "Touch lingers a touch too long"
<_stink_> i think you mischanned that
<_stink_> DIDN'T YOU
<cmaloney> One could hope
<___________> Why should I hide my affections :(
<_stink_> the world is not ready for you
<___________> :(
<greg-g> you're not ready for you
<___________> :\
<greg-g> ___________: I still love you
<___________> <3
<_stink_> look what you did to this high brow channel
<brousch> _stink_: I think you mischanned that. DIDN'T YOU
<_stink_> you got me!
<_stink_> was 'high brow' the clue?
<cmaloney> pretty much
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-11
<greg-g> another day, another outage report
<greg-g> I know why Opsen tend to be drunkards now
<greg-g> I was looking around for a beer around 12:30 today
<rick_h_> lol
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ thanks for the nice comment on my keyboard post. :)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: hey, if anyone can appreciate someone appreciating good hardware
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> have you tried a Max Keyboard?
<gamerchick02> and i really really like the Browns.
<rick_h_> nope, but I've tried many
<rick_h_> that's cool, many people do love the brows
<rick_h_> browns
<gamerchick02> i *might* get a Ducky for work but i fear it being stolen. :(
<rick_h_> ah, that's not fun
<gamerchick02> true
<gamerchick02> what do you recommend for a close office situation?
<gamerchick02> browns with o-rings on them?
<rick_h_> I'm not a good person to ask. I've not had to worry about that
<gamerchick02> ah
<rick_h_> so I just used browns and made people suffer
<rick_h_> that was after I use buckling springs for a while
<gamerchick02> i usually don't but there are 3 people sitting in my cube and right over the wall is my boss
<rick_h_> and someone finally commented on it
<gamerchick02> hah
<rick_h_> but I've been home-only for a while so I don't even hear it any more
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> well i love the browns. i like the initial actuation of the blue but without the CLACK you get when you bottom
<gamerchick02> it's more like a bump
<gamerchick02> click-bump instead of click-CLACK
<rick_h_> yea, I'm a big fan of loud. Though I've been on the kenisis for a while which is more quiet
<gamerchick02> but dang if my HP board at work doesn't feel like typing on a mashed potato
<rick_h_> yea, once you get a good keyboard you start to get picky about laptops, etc
<gamerchick02> i am a fan of loud too but i wanted smaller and lessâ¦ gaudy
<rick_h_> I'd find myself getting double letters and such using junk keyboards
<gamerchick02> Razer is gaudy
<rick_h_> yea, I'm with you. Mine are all plain
<gamerchick02> I mistype all the time on the one at work
<gamerchick02> i will sayâ¦ and i might get smacked for itâ¦ but the macbook air keyboard is nice.
<gamerchick02> good spacing, good actuation, and they feel nice.
<rick_h_> yea, best laptops keyboards are thinkpad (though it might be past tense :/) and apples I think
<gamerchick02> *nods*
<gamerchick02> i made a good choice on this laptop. i don't think i'll go anything else right now
<gamerchick02> for mobile laptop computing. it's no hassle. and i want no hassle for a laptop. i'l muck with the desktop but i want no effort for a laptop
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm getting old. don't mind me
<smoser> hm...
<smoser> not that i'm writing my talk for tomorrow's mug right now or anything
<waf> shame on you. i'm definitely not doing the same thing right now.
<smoser> but anyone have notes on the tool that widox (i think) used for creating slides. from (i think) latex
<smoser> hm.. or maybe not widox,. maybe waf.
<waf> yeah, that was me. one sec
<waf> https://github.com/waf/latex-presentation
<gamerchick02> i would like to attend MUG sometime but it's on the same night as my Nile meeting.
<waf> written in beamer
<gamerchick02> and i can't be in two places at the same time.
<smoser> waf, other than being so "backslashy", https://github.com/waf/latex-presentation/blob/master/presentation.tex is really nice.
<smoser> where do the src/*.tex files come from ?
<waf> smoser: it comes from the pygments tool, 'pygmentize'. one of the output formats is latex
<waf> http://pygments.org/docs/formatters/#LatexFormatter
<waf> for the "src/*.tex" files, the file "foo.tex" is handwritten, and the file "foo_syntax.tex" is the result of running "foo.tex" through pygmentize with the LaTeX formatter
<smoser> ok. thanks.
<rick_h_> smoser: you've got it set. You can just use the blog series that stephan has been doing
<rick_h_> smoser: I loved the chrome from lxc one today
<cmaloney> Good evening
<wolfger> Good morning
<wolfger> What, too early?
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> heh, I'm still adjusting time zones
<rick_h_> up at 5
<rick_h_> but yea, most people still not around
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> party hardy
<greg-g> "Bitcoin is boring because it's just dudes hoarding making false scarcity. Not a useful currency. It's beanie babies."
<wolfger> Hah!
<brousch> rick_h_: Do you have a rick_h_-approved roof rake?
<jrwren> i like that analysis of bitcoin
<greg-g> rick_h_ should work for Consumer Reports, have a column: "Rick Approved"
<brousch> greg-g: That's a good retirement plan
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> Why is there no roof roomba?
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, a buddy who has a protected twitter account tweeted it, I couldn't retweet (easily) so I copy/pasted here :)
<jrwren> wtf is the point of a private twitter acct?
<cmaloney> nfc
<greg-g> people like sharing with smaller groups, it's kind of normal sometimes :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, but I wonder if people expect it to be between their mouth to God's ears and nobody in-between
<cmaloney> greg-g: I love the beanie-babies analogy.
<wolfger> jrwren: "wtf is the point of a twitter acct?" <- I fixed that for you. :-)
<jrwren> oh wolfger
<jrwren> the point is the same as being on an IRC channel.
<wolfger> I used to be an avid user, then I stopped, then I went back to Twitter and was like "what purpose did this ever serve?"
<wolfger> IRC is good for conversing. Twitter pretty much sucks at it. (I was once upon a time going to write a Twitter client that simulated IRC, with hashtags being separate channels)
<cmaloney> Twitter is terrible for conversations.
<rick_h_> it's good for quick one/two
<rick_h_> "here's a pic of my X" "oh, how do you like the X"
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> "@bonehead212: And that's precisely why I don't tell the pharmacy joke"
<jrwren> wolfger: you are following the wrong peeps then :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: I used to think Twitter's problems were ones of curation
<cmaloney> but honestly the more I use G+ and pump.io I'm thinking the 140 character is great for broadcasting ideas but terrible for conversation.
<cmaloney> and it's especially easy for folks to talk past one-another and generate noise.
<jrwren> i just unfollow those people;
<jrwren> honestly, I agree with you, but by unfollowing the folks who don't understand the comm medium, I get more value
<cmaloney> maybe that's the best approach
<wolfger> Twitter is like IRC if I only saw the things that 15% of the room types
<wolfger> Because I don't follow the entire world
<wolfger> so if cmaloney strikes up a conversation with, say, waf, then it's going to be like I'm in the room with a friend who's on the phone with a total stranger. Nobody likes that.
<cmaloney> .@wolfger  You should have smelled that one coming a mile away
<wolfger> and when did snapl become cmaloney, anyway? I thought his new name was Calamine Orgy
<wolfger> (for those who don't get the reference: http://decafbad.net/2013/08/16/for-future-reference/ )
<cmaloney> my analog rice to you, good sir
<wolfger> I think those are good after-dark and before-dark Penguicon names :-D
<cmaloney> hah
<wolfger> My Penguicon name would be Erg Flow
<jrwren> this is my daily "setuptools is infuriating" message :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: :)
<jrwren> i got through it, its just not intuitive.
<cmaloney> it's only infuriating if you misuse it. ;)
<jrwren> http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html  this is my bible
<jrwren> in this case it was dead simple, not doing the stupid complex stuff I was a few weeks ago
<cmaloney> #mugorg meeting happening now
<cmaloney> ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-12
<waldo323> Good evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party party
 * waldo323 parties in a container
<lmorchard> I was about to say "contain yourself" but thought better of it
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Ubuntu 14.04 still stips with Python 2.x?
<cmaloney> ships, rather?
<cmaloney> (defaults, whatever)
<rick_h_> yea, 2.7.6 right now
<rick_h_> though might change
<rick_h_> and 3.3.4
<rick_h_> on python3
<cmaloney> Huh. Thought they might have bumped to 3.x
<rick_h_> well I've heard both ways I guess
<cmaloney> yeah, just found that interesting
<cmaloney> Yeah, no biggie either way
<jrwren> 3.3.4 just shipped 2 days ago? its in already?
<cmaloney> Ah,interesting
<cmaloney> python3 is what ships
<rick_h_> well trusty is in early stages but yea just checked my laptop
<jrwren> but yeah, 2.x will be around for a long time
<cmaloney> but installing python gets you 2.7.6
<cmaloney> I think Arch swapped that so you had to do python2 to get 2.x
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> I'm not sure when/how that change will happen. It's been talked about for 3 releases
<cmaloney> Just installed ubuntu14.04 in an LXC container
<waldo323> Nice
<cmaloney> so was playing with that.
<rick_h_> just remember that it's not the 14.04 kernel
<cmaloney> Yeah, noted.
<cmaloney> Still says 3.2.0
<cmaloney> which is what 12.04 has
<cmaloney> But PostgreSQL 9.3, so yay yay
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> good luck
<cmaloney> I think I have jsivak3 convinced to use LXC over RVM.
<rick_h_> yea, lxc for the win for dev
<rick_h_> so cheap to create and so easy to destroy
<rick_h_> and for most apps much lighter to run things
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> 9.3! ROCK ON
<jrwren> they skipping 9.2 then eh?
<jrwren> cuz iirc 13.10 was still 9.1
<cmaloney> I think it's partially because there's an official repo for PostgreSQL now
<cmaloney> so not hard to get ported over.
<jrwren> not so hard to get packaged!
<cmaloney> Yep
<lmorchard> Dat live coding example
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's pretty mad sexy.
<cmaloney> Though I'm sitting next to rick_h_ and he's threatened me if I use it.
<rick_h_> *grumble grumble*
<rick_h_> *stpud RoR wannabe pain the $#@$#@ magic 'it just works...until you have to trace a failure...' $#@$#@@"
<cmaloney> SO the problem with it is it's awesome until it doesn't work
<cmaloney> like most of computing. ;)
<cmaloney> got it. ;)
<rick_h_> Truths of Life from Rick: 'If it demos well, you'll hate it in a month because it won't scale for @$#@'
<cmaloney> But yeah, I could see this being fun to debug if you have to go in too deep
<rick_h_> 'If it has a learning curve, buckle up because you'll live on this in a month'
<rick_h_> magic variable BS!
<lmorchard> Although I just scared myself by looking up how angular knows what the parameter names are on a controller function
<rick_h_> yea exactly
<cmaloney> So what do you tink of Ember / React? ;)
<rick_h_> the layers of magic to make it work is nuts
 * cmaloney is getting an adrenaline rush from living on the edge.
<rick_h_> and forget using your standard lint tools, debugging, etc
<lmorchard> It parses the string representation of the function with regexes
<lmorchard> Haha
 * rick_h_ covers ears LALALALALALALALALA
<rick_h_> I looked at it a while ago and ran away screaming
<lmorchard> I haven't gotten around to playing with ember or react yet
<rick_h_> reactjs I want to tinker with. It's a partial solution at one point, widget/components
<rick_h_> not tried to see how easy you can fit it into an existing toolchain
<cmaloney> I don't now any Javascript so the less I have to play with it the better IMHO
<rick_h_> ember is big...big...big and not tried it out. I think it does some of the DOM databinding crap I hate
<cmaloney> ah, fun fun
<lmorchard> I started building a toy market app for eve online, but its all fairly boring jquery and bootstrap
<lmorchard> Lots of
<cmaloney> But we're still on JQuery at work so I'll have a while before I do anything work-related with either.
<lmorchard> Little json data APIs, grids, and autocompletes though
<rick_h_> lmao, lovely traceback there
<rick_h_> "it broke...what went wrong?"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: point taken
<lmorchard> Promises in js are pretty hawt
<rick_h_> NONONONONONO
<lmorchard> Oh but those are routes not promises
<rick_h_> we just got through killing them after months of getting sucked into them
<lmorchard> Heh
<rick_h_> until they get past the A+ spec promises are flawed badly
<lmorchard> Hmm, not sure what the downsides are yet, but then I'm not in super deep with them yet
<rick_h_> come to dinner, I'll explain :)
<rick_h_> it took me 3 days into a sprint to covince folks
<rick_h_> though chrome is working on fixing the big issue
<lmorchard> I have been using caolan/async for more complex stuff
<lmorchard> And promises mostly on the node sever side too
<jrwren> ember layers of magic?
<jrwren> like backbone adn angular and al the others don't also have layers of magic
<rick_h_> lmorchard: not seeing any email jump out as 'les' to me.
<rick_h_> oh wait, me@lmorchard.com
<rick_h_> hmm, and yea throwing a 406 back. So something's busted.
<rick_h_> ah "You've already marked your account for reactivation.\nPlease check your email for the reactivation link. Make sure to\ncheck your spam folder."
<rick_h_> that should be showing up but it's not
<rick_h_> lmorchard: I removed the user since it was never activated so you can start fresh with a signup
<rick_h_> and filed a bug on the error not getting displayed to the user
<waf> for the record, in *actual* angularjs production code, you don't use the dependency-injection-via-parameter-name stuff
<waf> since that doesn't play too well with code minification
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> I think I'm turning into rick_h_
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> I'm going to be replaced
<cmaloney> I've got tmux acting as a tiling window manager
<brousch> cmaloney: Why? Is more of your hair falling out?
<rick_h_> ooooh, low blow brousch
<rick_h_> you're not exactly going in for a perm this week :P
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> my hair is following the economy and is in a light recession
<brousch> :D
<cmaloney> (though experts say it's more of a depression)
<cmaloney> Anywho...
<cmaloney> Yeah, I thought you might get a kick out of that rick_h_
<cmaloney> ^B-%
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hey, you're on the curve. Tiling has taken longer than most, but you'll get there
<cmaloney> Only problem is it doesn't respect vi keybindings
<cmaloney> so when I want to get to the other window I have to tell myself it's not a vi split. ;)
<cmaloney> Not 100% convinced but flipping between a shell on the right and code on the left is making me happy right now
<cmaloney> Anywho, down periscope.
<rick_h_> yep, and when your window manager tiles you can do that with gvim, chrome, etc :P
<rick_h_> have fun
<akelling> what tiling wm are you guys using?
<rick_h_> AwesomeWM here, _stink_ uses something else. I can't remember. I think he got off of the original one
<rick_h_> widox: was tinkering with xmonad, not sure if he's still on that
<widox> i3 now
<rick_h_> widox: ah right cool
<rick_h_> we've got guys using a few different ones
<akelling> Awesomewm is very nice. I used i3 for some time  then went back to fluxbox
<widox> I dig it, config is super easy
<rick_h_> I <3 our tech/geek levels in this channel
<wolfger> what's that you say, cmaloney? Your hair recession is depressing?
<wolfger> I tried tiling.... just can't quite love it
<wolfger> I like my eye candy, and I like working on things in full screen mode
<rick_h_> ugh, fullscreen?!
<rick_h_> only on my stupid 1300px laptop and even then I tend to split a bit
<brousch> Android is full screen. That's all you need
<jrwren> lmorchard: for a few minutes here I was trying to figure out if you were a different les.
<jrwren> then I realized you are probably not from Kansas
<akelling> [Slashdot] Enlightenment E19 Pre-Alpha Released (technology) -  well that was quick. Seemed like E17 took forever to be released.
<jrwren> it did take forever. my guess is that it still isn't out :p
<akelling> lol
<wolfger> what happened to e18?
<wolfger> I believe e17 was "out".... insofar as, people were using it
<wolfger> I just don't think it ever hit the level of "finished stable product"
<jrwren> I was j/k
<jrwren> e17 did finally get an official release a while back.
<wolfger> oh, sweet
<wolfger> I do need to check that out again, then
<wolfger> e was my favorite, way back when
<cmaloney> Seriously? http://www.zdnet.com/mozilla-to-deliver-ads-in-its-firefox-browser-7000026216/
<cmaloney> Yeah, e17 finally was released.
<akelling> ^ *sigh*
<_stink_> akelling: i use stumpwm
<_stink_> fwiw
<rick_h_> ah, I thought you swapped off of that
<_stink_> i tinkered... but i went back home.
<rick_h_> my bad
<rick_h_> :)
<_stink_> it's just so warm and cozy.
<jrwren> wolfger: i dont know how usable e17+ is, but I know technically it is rock solid.
<jrwren> I trust raster a lot.
<jrwren> rock solid libs.
<jrwren> those e libs make gnome and kde look like Win32 crap :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: agreed
<cmaloney> also, the zip command under Linux makes me pine for tar.gz files
<cmaloney> and that's saying something
<jrwren> cmaloney: same!
<jrwren> why isn't there a good unzip tool for linux? maybe we should make one?
<jrwren> its a pretty simple thing to do.
<cmaloney> I dunno
<cmaloney> I would think one could do "zip filename.txt" and have it do something intelligent
<cmaloney> but no.
<cmaloney> has to be "zip filename.zip filename.txt"
<cmaloney> which is a royal PITA if you have multiple files that are one-to-one files to zip.
<cmaloney> (not looking for solutions btw. It's already resolved)
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ;)
<cmaloney> I know this channel. Ponder something and get 14 ways to fix it. ;)
<cmaloney> well, ha! I beat you to it! :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is what I'm saying, make your own version of zip and unzip cmdline tools which follow unix conventions more closely
<wolfger> Huh... I don't recall ever having an issue with zip. Maybe it's just a command line thing?
<wolfger> not sure why anybody would ever *want* to zip from command line
<_stink_> because it's fun
<wolfger> more fun than tar? Inconceivable!
<_stink_> well, no.
<jrwren> um, because I downloaded a zip file, with curl and now I need to extract it?
<jrwren> i'm not sur ewhy anybody would ever *want* to zip from outside a command line
<wolfger> good point
<rick_h_> anyone done anything with GSoC? greg-g maybe?
<greg-g> I haven't directly
<greg-g> been with 2 orgs that have done it (CC and WMF) but wasn't in the group mentoring
<rick_h_> ok cool
<rick_h_> I'm thinking of seeing if I can submit bookie to work with someone.
<rick_h_> might be interesting
<brousch> rick_h_: I may be a co-mentor this year for a Kivy GSoC under the PSF
<brousch> Well, I will be a co-mentor if Kivy gets in
<brousch> I think 3 students are interested
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> You would be a good mentor
<greg-g> +1
<rick_h_> cool, I'll make that my CHC task tonight to look into it. I've thought about trying it out a few times but it always sneaks up on me
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/matthewkheafy/status/151804749019230209/photo/1
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> I hear streaming is killer for smaller artists
<cmaloney> Trivium is not a smaller band. :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, that's insulting
<rick_h_> sounds like one to me :P
<greg-g> who?
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> Trivium, Vengeance Falls (Roadrunner) #15, 17,225 sold
<rick_h_> that sure sounds a bit small
<cmaloney> Yeah, sadly that's actually not bad for a metal album
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR7k3XnvbU0
<rick_h_> right, but as far as streaming royalties go, that's small.
<rick_h_> I'm not sure how the industry will hold up in a streaming world
<greg-g> I'll tell you why they aren't popular, $10 words like "perdition"
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P7CQ9uYSy0
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I don't know either.
<greg-g> cmaloney: tip one: don't create music videos like they mattered in 90s.
<greg-g> though I do appreciate them
<greg-g> though, wow, over a million views
<greg-g> yeah, "trepidation"?, they're over the head of most metal heads ;)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Ahem
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tAbcWrrIQU
<greg-g> wow, that scream
<cmaloney> Yeah
<greg-g> Insert my usual comment about how I love the drumming/guitar, but can't deal with the screaming
<cmaloney> That's "Tom Araya" scream levels.
<cmaloney> greg-g: That one took me a bit to get into
<cmaloney> but it's a hell of an album
<cmaloney> Easily one of my favorites that I found in 2013
<cmaloney> http://earache.bandcamp.com/album/outer-isolation
 * greg-g nods
 * greg-g holds his post-rock/post-metal closely
<cmaloney> Oh I love my post-rock / post-metal
<greg-g> you should do some episodes of it!
<cmaloney> I have!
 * greg-g looks
 * greg-g hangs head
<cmaloney> though not complete episodes
<greg-g> oh, I was going to say, I don't remember a post-rock episode like the uhh, what was it called....
<cmaloney> instrumetalcast?
<greg-g> jrwren metal
<greg-g> CLUB METAL
<greg-g> that's it
<cmaloney> http://deepspacedestructors.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> hah
<greg-g> jrwren: just fyi, I think of you whenever I think of club metal
<cmaloney> Yeah, I could pull off an epiode like that
<greg-g> yay
<greg-g> also, in case you didn't see: http://www.zdnet.com/change-your-passwords-comcast-hushes-minimizes-serious-hack-7000026118/#ftag=RSS14dc6a9
<greg-g> for any comcast users
<akelling> how comcastic.......
<akelling> wheres my google fiber?
<akelling> Trivium first time hearing this band but they are not bad.
<cmaloney> akelling: Yeah, they're pretty good.
<akelling> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB0hg4_JH0I - BOBAFLEX - BURY ME WITH MY GUNS ON
<jrwren> what is club metal?
<akelling> Nu Metal according to wikipedia
<jrwren> greg-g: i don't like screaming screatch metal either. that is why I like harmonic metal like Sonata Artica and operatic death metal like nightwish, xandria, epica
<jrwren> ewe, I dno't like Nu Metal
<jrwren> why do I remind you of NuMetal greg-g ?
<akelling> So no Korn, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Staind, Deftones, Distrubed, and Slipknot.
<greg-g> NuMetal == Limp Bizkit?
<greg-g> no, not that
<akelling> So most of my fav bands
<greg-g> entirely not what cmaloney has on his Club Metal episodes
<jrwren> yes, I hate all that crap.
<greg-g> jrwren: I don't know how to describe, download a Club Metal episode from OMC :)
<jrwren> i didn't even know deftones sounded like that.
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/?s=club+metal
<cmaloney> I use it to refer to more industrial stuff
<greg-g> that's the word I couldn't think of
<n0p> sup guys
<jrwren> oh, well I do love me some industrial.
<jrwren> 16volt?
<jrwren> but that wouldn't be on OMC
<cmaloney> 16volt would definitely be on OMC
<cmaloney> and had they kept their CC license they would have been
<cmaloney> Hey n0p!
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^^
<jrwren> yes, I mean no CC so they wouldn't be on OMC.
<jrwren> lack of CC was the ONLY reason I said they wouldn't be
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I need a backup admin for GSoC :)
<rick_h_> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014 and create a profile and let me know the username please?
<akelling> almost beer thirty
<cmaloney> rick_h_: craigmaloney
<rick_h_> cmaloney: thanks!
<jrwren> i just looked over the mug ipv6 meeting slides.
<jrwren> no mention of dhcp prefix delegation?
<rick_h_> waf: cmaloney greg-g widox or anyone else https://docs.google.com/a/mitechie.com/document/d/1F51s9_faKf_GraKthtT0mCsQQvu-LMdnLwlliSZ3rJ4/edit
<rick_h_> appreciate any feedback on tasks lists, the notes, other tasks that might be cool/useful.
<rick_h_> I just did a first pass, will tweak more at CHC tonight
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-13
<cmaloney> Do those headphones work for other people?
<cmaloney> like aim them directionally? :)
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+PedroHenriqueKopper/posts/XZD2QhqmGce
<rick_h_> makes sense to me
<cmaloney> hello google
<cmaloney> http://www.ianbicking.org/blog/2014/02/saying-goodbye-to-python.html
<cmaloney> :(
<rick_h_> it's only been that way for 4yrs
<rick_h_> he should have written that long ago
<rick_h_> instead of going silent as everyone tried to use his libs he abandoned
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> But still, feels like Javascript is getting the interesting folks
<rick_h_> mozilla is
<cmaloney> Ah, true
<jrwren> that site isn't working for me :(
<jrwren> Firefox can't find the server at blog.ianbicking.org.&f=regular
<rick_h_> but yea, I do like his post. It affirms what I've thought as well re: JS community and such
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/eb9ef47914589c
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> why the hel would you leave the py community for js
<jrwren> python rules.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I guess when you've been there for a while there's a bit of wander-lust
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> brousch: thanks for the link
<brousch> rick_h_: Are you trying to get in under the PSF?
<rick_h_> google voice watch out? http://r.bmark.us/u/74e3b507ad663b
<rick_h_> oh right, it's BB...nvm
<brousch> Hm. I had to use Eclipse this morning and it irritated me. Then Komodo Edit (which I've been doing most Python dev in) also irritated me. Vim is the only one that hasn't irritated me today
<rick_h_> come to the dark side
<brousch> All ssh work is in vim
<mathomastech_> Anyone ever use pyGTK with glade for a cross platform app?
<brousch> mathomastech: About 4 years ago I toyed with it
<brousch> Kivy is my cross-platform GUI framework now
<mathomastech> brousch: Neat, supports IOS and Android as well. I don't think GTK+ has that.
<brousch> It does not
<brousch> GTK does not, that is
<brousch> rick_h_: oooooooooh http://pytennessee.tumblr.com/post/76468750603/pytn-profiles-chris-mcdonough-and-simon-solutions
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, cool stuff. pyTN is going to be a good conf
<brousch> Are you going?
<cmaloney> I know I don't have any plans at the moment to go to TN
<cmaloney> brousch: You going?
<rick_h_> no, but I wish I had gone. I underestimated how good it would be in a first year conf
<brousch> I'm not going. I thought I'd be going to PyCon so I skipped it. PyTN is doing a bang-up job it looks like
<brousch> Sold out!
<cmaloney> wow
<cmaloney> http://m.aux.tv/news/100455-7-royalty-cheques-that-ll-make-you-lose-your-faith-in-the-music-industry
<cmaloney> Some more royalty checks.
<jrwren> as if anyone has faith in the music industry.
<jrwren> what idiot titled that.
<cmaloney> Well, I'm sure someone out there thinks musicians all make tons of money
<cmaloney> when the reality is a few big acts make most of the money
<jrwren> I have no sympathy of these artists.
<jrwren> they sold out when they signed with a big label.
<jrwren> the big label licensed the music to these streaming companies.
<jrwren> its been 30 years since Subpop was founded.
<jrwren> When will kids learn?
<jrwren> You don't sign with a label. PERIOD
<cmaloney> jrwren: No argument here
<jrwren> the only name in that entire article tha I know is Cracker
<cmaloney> but then on the flip side if you sell on a site like bandcamp or what-not you still get your music torrented
<jrwren> and missing from teh article is how mch $$$$ Cracker made in 1993-4 when that song was all over major radio and MTV
<jrwren> cmaloney: how is that flip side? all music gets torrented.
<cmaloney> had a conversation with a band about how their new album won't be CC licensed because they want to recoup their cost.
<cmaloney> and they were miffed that their album was torrented / on filesharing sites
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> they can't do anything about that. That poor band. They need some reeducation.
<cmaloney> and I said that they were going to get that, CC-license or not
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I wish folks didn't have the attitude that artists shouldn't be paid
<jrwren> I'd also like to point out, again about Cracker - Low - that was 20 years ago. Well outside of the 14yr default copyright of Copyright Act of 1790.  :)
<cmaloney> but unfortunately there are a lot of great bands and plenty of gristle for labels to take advantage
<jrwren> I wish artists didn't have attitude that they should be payed for use.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm on the fence about that
<cmaloney> I want artists to be paid for their music
<jrwren> me too, its called performance.
<cmaloney> I don't feel corporations should own that performance
<jrwren> and hell, in our culture its done via branding and merch.
<jrwren> I don't feel corporations should own that performance either.
<jrwren> i'm getting angry just thinking about that article :)
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_Global_Mobile#Business_aims
<jrwren> "9 time grammy award winner..."  as if that matters at all
<cmaloney> I love the quote that Fripp wrote. It's on all of the King Crimson releases from DGM.
<cmaloney> "The phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Discipline Global Mobile on behalf of the artists, with whom it resides, contrary to common practice in the record industry. Discipline accepts no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a 'common practice' which was always questionable, often improper, and is
<cmaloney> now indefensible."
<jrwren> for a sec I thought it was David Geffin and I thought WTF?
<cmaloney> Yeah, not quite
<cmaloney> that's DGC
<jrwren> I do like hte mission statement and business aims.
<cmaloney> Yeah, but they too ran into business problems
<jrwren> its a good example of a corporation that exists to not just make money.
<mrgoodcat> hello all, just thought you might want to know the CHC link in the topic is broken.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ah, good call
<rick_h_> cmaloney: or greg-g can you update to http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/ or a short of that?
<mrgoodcat> also so is the All About Us link
<mrgoodcat> it links to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ when it should link to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-mi/
<mrgoodcat> also the michigan repository mirror appears down right now
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | All About Us: http://ur1.ca/413j6 | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/gmfcz | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | What time are we? http://everytimezone.com/
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | All About Us: http://ur1.ca/gikdc | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/gmfcz | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | What time are we? http://everytimezone.com/
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: the All About Us link is also broken
<greg-g> got it
<mrgoodcat> lol nm
<mrgoodcat> I just decided to try to get involved in the LoCo group and all the topic links were broken lol
<greg-g> hah, oops
<mrgoodcat> nbd. i found the relevant websites anyways. I also joined the mailing list. perhaps that should be in the topic as well?
<cmaloney> welcome. :)
<wolfger> good afternoon, peeps
<greg-g> and yeah, welcome to the nicest free software irc channel around :)
<mrgoodcat> the only irc channels i have frequented have been the WMU computer club channels and some ruby and Go dev channels
<mrgoodcat> so I have very little precedent
<wolfger> just take greg-g's word for it. :-)
<mrgoodcat> I meant to attend CHC last night but I had too much to do. oh well, there's always next week
<rick_h_> yep, good think about CHC is there's always another one < 7 days away
<mrgoodcat> how did chc get started?
<wolfger> anybody here familiar with miracast or WiDi?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ann arbor started one but it was too far for me to drive with a kid
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: and theirs isn't that regular and I wanted weekly hack time set aside
<rick_h_> so there goes CHC, 4 years later...
<rick_h_> wolfger: nope, not messed with it
<mrgoodcat> wolfger: i've used samsung's AllShare Cast
<wolfger> mrgoodcat:  which I gather is one particular implementation of miracast...
<mrgoodcat> yes
<wolfger> I just started investigating these things today, and I think "mess" is a good term to associate with it.
<wolfger> what are your experiences?
<mrgoodcat> AllShare Cast, SmartShare, Screen Mirroring, and Display Mirroring are all implementations of miracast
<wolfger> good, bad, ugly?
<mrgoodcat> well i've only used the samsung one (allshare) using my s4 and a samsung tv so it went pretty smoothly
<mrgoodcat> but I know they have struggled gettting different implementations of miracast to play well together
<wolfger> yeah... :-p
<wolfger> How would I even know if my Toshiba laptop has mc/widi support?
<mrgoodcat> also, it isn't a very well integrated experience, essentially just an exact display mirror
<mrgoodcat> if you don't know, it probably doesn't
<wolfger> well then, any further questions would be a moot point :-p
<mrgoodcat> http://i.imgur.com/I2QmeZe.jpeg
<wolfger> chromecast seems nice, but doesn't quite do everything I want (i.e. full-fledged screen share)
<mrgoodcat> I love my chromecast
<mrgoodcat> after owning it for 2 months I couldn't imagine ever going back
 * rick_h_ is using his right now
<mrgoodcat> I use it for google play movies and tv. it owns netflix in terms of ease of use and user experience
<wolfger> My other issue with chromecast is that it's an hdmi dongle.... necessitating a TV with HDMI input
<wolfger> fine at home, but less fine at hotels
<mrgoodcat> it doesn't travel well anyways
<wolfger> but for $35, it sounds like an awesome value
<mrgoodcat> changing to new wifi networks is a nightmare
<mrgoodcat> once you get it set up at home i promise you won't want to move it
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: have you had any problems with the sound on yours?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: no, I've got 3 and no issues
<mrgoodcat> what brand tv?
<mrgoodcat> must not have lg
<rick_h_> no, all samsung of various ages/sizes
<mrgoodcat> mine is having audio issues with my lg tv, but other people i've talked to with similar problems have almost exclusively lg tvs... seems to be an issue with LG's implementation of the HDMI standard and chromecast doesn't handle the discrepencies well
<mrgoodcat> does anybody here run on the ubuntu devel branch?
<greg-g> I run Debian Unstable, if that counts ;)
<mrgoodcat> i've thought about making the switch before, but if I was going to switch away from unity i'd rather go with arch
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, I'm on trusty atm
<greg-g> heh, interstingly phrased
<mrgoodcat> i run arch on a couple of my machines and really like the rolling release model and from what i've heard running the devel branch is a little closer to being rolling release
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: because i said unity not ubuntu?
<greg-g> yeah :)
<mrgoodcat> the only reason i stick with ubuntu is because it runs unity the best
<rick_h_> well there's not really a devel on ubuntu
<cmaloney> pet shop boys "opportunities (lets make lots of money)" earworm: worst thing ever or best thing ever?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: also, Unstable is rolling, until it gets close to Debian Release time, where it slows down a little bit
<mrgoodcat> yes there is, I assume you use the trusy repos? there are also devel
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: then it gets way more stable and then, BAM, back to rolling
 * wolfger doesn't recognize that song and is looking it up on youtube... probably a bad idea....
<cmaloney> wolfger: Your funeral
<wolfger> Is that lead singer like 12 years old or what?
<cmaloney> It was 1986. Everyone looked younger
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/devel
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, never looked at that. Curious how ppas and such work with that where you have to pick a series
<wolfger> OK, first off, it's definitely not the best thing ever. Second, how did that ever achieve earworm status? I now know why it didn't click until I looked it up....l utterly forgettable.
<greg-g> rick_h_: they just work, the info that those look at is updated correctly, it doesn't say "Ubuntu Devel" it says "Ubuntu Trusty" like yours
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah interesting
<cmaloney> wolfger: Just take my word for it. It's insidious
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: in order to switch to the devel branch you just have to change the animal name to devel in /etc/apt/sources.list
<rick_h_> learn something new
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> Trusty is basically a symlink to devel
<mrgoodcat> it says saucy though if you use devel
<greg-g> ...
<greg-g> what says saucy?
<mrgoodcat> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/devel/Release
<mrgoodcat> lines 3 and 4
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> ok, I might be wrong
<mrgoodcat> it uses the most updated package but the release name is the most recently released. when trusty is released the devel branch will start using that name
<mrgoodcat> it uses the trusty packages
<wolfger> I'm so far behind the times... I don't even know what release names are post-Precise Pangolin
<mrgoodcat> quantal quentsdflkjhas
<mrgoodcat> raring ringtail
<mrgoodcat> saucy salamander
<mrgoodcat> truty tahr
<wolfger> Did they accept my suggestion for Raunchy Raccoon? No? :-p
<cmaloney> Then it'll be Urinating Unicorn
<mrgoodcat> ha YES
<cmaloney> Voluptuous Velociraptor
<cmaloney> Whinging Whale
<cmaloney> Xenochromatic Xenomorph
<cmaloney> Yodeling Y-named animal
<wolfger> Yodeling Yeti!
<wolfger> Yes!
<cmaloney> and Zoot-Suuited Zebra
<greg-g> good one, yeti, I was stumped
<cmaloney> then we'll start with greek letters.
<cmaloney> like Tornado season.
<cmaloney> Alpha Alpha RC1
<cmaloney> ;)
<wolfger> fraternity-themed releases?
<mrgoodcat> just start back at a and use new animals? that could get confusing
<wolfger> Wake me when they get to Tappa Kegga Brew
<greg-g> kappa kappa kangaroo
<cmaloney> karma kameleon
<greg-g> cmaloney: EAR WORM
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> go with final fantasy naming. Ubuntu XXIVIVXI chapter XIIVI
<mrgoodcat_> did I just time out on this channel?
<brousch> wolfger: I have a couple of miracast dongles in use, and chromecast
<mrgoodcat> the administrators rebooted the server i was running irssi on
<mrgoodcat> apparently nobody on the admin team knows what is going on.... our ubuntu server is crashing hard though....
<jrwren> cmaloney: i just realized I'm wearing  wcd tshirt and sweatshirt today. Its representative of our (C) conversation :)
<mrgoodcat> wcd or wdc?
<jrwren> wcd
<cmaloney> jrwren: Hurray Women Corporate Directors!
<cmaloney> (what is WCD?)
<jrwren> whatcd
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> That's what he's asking! What CD?
<wolfger> what's on second
<greg-g> yay!
<greg-g> "Hello!
<greg-g> If you are receiving this email you have been approved to travel to Zurich
<greg-g> for the hackthon"
<rick_h_> woot
<wolfger> awesomesauce
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-14
<gamerchick02> everything is awesomesauce, wolfger. how's it going?
<gamerchick02> i've not said hi to you in a long time.
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> and howdy greg-g
<jrwren> the pvdisplay man page is wrong. *RAGE*
<gamerchick02> that's unfortunate.
<gamerchick02> :(
<wolfger> hey gamerchick02 I was just asking about you the other day. Still working at Chrysler?
<gamerchick02> i sure am!
<gamerchick02> i'm still in Auburn Hills, still at my apartment, and still in the same department.
<gamerchick02> i'd like to move to engineering but we'll see. it's been busy with the new MP/M1/M4 program that's ramping up.
<gamerchick02> i'm not online during the day because my ID doesn't give me regular net access. it's fine, really... :-P
<wolfger> Heheheh
<jrwren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1280037
<jrwren> vote that it effects you, even if it doesn't... plz :)
<wolfger> I moved on, sort of. I now work for Sandalwood, but doing more or less exactly the same job as before. I'm just strictly project based now, with the possibility of working for, say, Ford if there are no current projects from Chrysler
<gamerchick02> oh. that's interesting!
<gamerchick02> you like it?
<gamerchick02> i'm still mucking in codep
<gamerchick02> i can hardly wait til destination comes out and we can migrate away from codep. java is hinky
<gamerchick02> or at least the oracle thing we use is hinky
<gamerchick02> jrwren, i don't even know what that bug is about. :(
<wolfger> If the bug makes jrwren unhappy, it affects me! ;-)
<wolfger> It's much nicer than the old contract job. Sandalwood treats its people very well, and actually cares about them.
<jrwren> gamerchick02: I've been a linux admin for nearly 20yrs now :p
<gamerchick02> that's awesome, jrwren. :)
<gamerchick02> and that's awesome, wolfger. RGBSI isn't so bad. i'd like to get into chrysler-fiat proper
<wolfger> You mean FCTP? (I know, it's supposed to be FCA, but that is *not* an A in the logo, it's a teepee)
<gamerchick02> i dont' know who came up with that.
<gamerchick02> it's a dumb logo.
<gamerchick02> if i say so myself. ahem.
<gamerchick02> i understand what it means, but still.
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> A lively crowd on a Friday...
<rick_h_> yea, party party
<rick_h_> TGIF
<rick_h_> and all that
<cmaloney> Yeah, can't wait for this week to be over. ;)
<wolfger> Friday is just one day closer to having to fly back to Mexico. :-p
<cmaloney> wolfger: when are you headed back?
<wolfger> Monday
<cmaloney> oh fun
<cmaloney> so Sunday is make sure I have everything squared away day.
<wolfger> Two weeks down, one week home.
<cmaloney> That's no fun
<wolfger> Eventually it will be two down, four home. That will be nice.
<wolfger> And Mexico is warm, and good for the wallet, so there is a bright side or two
<wolfger> I just hate travel
<cmaloney> wolfger: I don't think there's anyone on the planet that enjoys travel
<cmaloney> anyone sane that is.
<wolfger> I'm not sure I know any sane people. I mean, a number of us look normal on the surface, but then you realize they actually *like* tiling wm's and such....
<brousch> I don't use a tiling WM, just Kubuntu
<wolfger> Just like me. And I know I'm not right in the head ;-)
<brousch> You don't seem so bad
<brousch> Though I don't think we've ever met in meatspace
<wolfger> Heheh. Thanks!
<wolfger> So you should come to Penguicon and rectify that
<brousch> OK, I guess you are messed up. No sane person attends Penguicon
<rick_h_> bingo!
<wolfger> LOL
<cmaloney> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/valentines-day.do?code=DEAL
<cmaloney> All pink books on sale
 * wolfger shakes his head
<brousch> I got a free copy of The Python cookbook as a give away at GRPUG. Flipping through it, it's a pretty good book
<brousch> Basically 1 page per concept with example code and discussion
<rick_h_> yea he did a good job on it
<brousch> They should turn it into a phone-friendly app/ebook. Would be great for bathroom reading
<brousch> Oooh, the early release Kivy book is $10
<jrwren> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316  great leadership
<rick_h_> yep, honestly the guys dealing with that have done great all around
<rick_h_> <3
<jrwren> i agree
<jrwren> and its perfect timing IMO
<jrwren> upstart and systemd have both matured to the point that there isn't a reason for both to continue forward. Time to pick one.
<brousch> Not perfect. Perfect would be systemd default in 14.04
<rick_h_> yea, not quite
<jrwren> brousch: you want it and you want it now :)
<rick_h_> get an LTS out and give 4 cycles to get things adjusted/right
<rick_h_> that's good timing
<brousch> 4 cycles!
<rick_h_> LTS->LTS baby
<jrwren> cant' you just throw 10 people at it and get it done in 4/10 of a cycle?
<rick_h_> feature freeze is next week...no
<brousch> That's 7 days! Plenty of time
<akelling> RIP upstart
<rick_h_> well how it goes away is still TBD
<akelling> I am probley the only one who would rather have rc style startup scripts....
<akelling> They are easy to understand and light weight.
<greg-g> wait, it's going away?
<greg-g> oh, /me looks at sabdfl's blog
 * greg-g just got online
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> well done mark
<rick_h_> <3 https://twitter.com/fjsteele/status/434249935316615168
<wolfger> rick_h_: that is awesome
<rick_h_> a lifestyle pusher? cmaloney you shame me. What about tool appreciator? Productibity afficionado?
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> I dunno...
<cmaloney> Tiling Window Managers
<cmaloney> Woodworking.
<cmaloney> Standing Desks that go up and down
<cmaloney> That one I havent done yet although I'm sitting on my ball
<rick_h_> I did do the ball first :P
<cmaloney> (bouncing, more like).
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2013/02/09/sitting-on-my-ball-chair/
<cmaloney> HUh, I've been doing this for a year.
<cmaloney> Happy anniversary ball chair
<rick_h_> nice
<brousch> cmaloney: Have you experienced any positive effects?
<cmaloney> brousch: a bit
<cmaloney> I still have a gut
<cmaloney> I still slouch a bit
<brousch> Well damn. I was hoping for a magic cure for that
<cmaloney> On the plus side, my back doesn't hurt anymore
<cmaloney> and my gut muscles are engaged throughout the day
<cmaloney> it does encourage bouncing though
<brousch> I bounce my legs all day
<cmaloney> brousch: I didn't realize you were a drummer too.
<brousch> I'm not
<cmaloney> Well you're half-way there
<brousch> I lean back a lot. I think the ball would make me less lazy
<cmaloney> That it does
<cmaloney> It does take some time to "adjust" though
<cmaloney> And during the summer if you wear shorts you will sweat against it
<cmaloney> I don't tend to wear shorts much
<cmaloney> as evidenced by my chicken-legs that could pass for white-meat.
<brousch> What ballchair are you using? Is that the rick_h_ approved ballchair?
<brousch> No shorts at work
<cmaloney> I'm using the Gaim one
<brousch> Gaiam?
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Gaiam-Balance-Ball-Chair-Black/dp/B0007VB4NE
<cmaloney> Yeah, that one.
<brousch> Ga I am?
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Isokinetics-Inc-Brand-Fitness-Chair/dp/B000VK5MRU/ref=pd_sim_sg_5
<brousch> Decent price
<cmaloney> If I were to do it again I'd probably get the isokinetics one
<cmaloney> That one is adjustible
<cmaloney> and the back is usable
<cmaloney> the gaiam one doesn't have a usable back rest
<cmaloney> it's mostly to keep you from killing yourself should you lean back
<cmaloney> There's a bar on the front of the Gaiam chair that's supposed to keep the ball in place. That broke off on mine
<cmaloney> but the well is enough that it keeps it in place
<brousch> I have to determine if the benefits outweigh the constant ribbing from coworkers
<cmaloney> I think that's to keep the ball from popping out if you use it for exercises and what-not
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Isokinetics-Inc-Brand-Fitness-Chair/dp/B00FAY1BRW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1392410133&sr=8-5&keywords=ball+chair
<cmaloney> brousch: You'll get ribbed. no doubt about it.
<brousch> I got ribbed a lot when I was standing
<brousch> But now I'll be sitting on my balls all day
<wolfger> ...
<wolfger> I go back to what I said earlier today
<wolfger> I don't think I know any sane people
<brousch> rick_h_: No snow on the ground in Portland, OR, and they are not affected by the drought in CA. It really does look like paradise
<rick_h_> brousch: +1
<brousch> 8 years ago I was offered a job in Eugene
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-15
<gamerchick02> bwah. happy Friday everyone. i guess everyone is out with their significant others tonight. and i'm here... on irc. ahem.
<rick_h_> heh, here cooking dinner
<greg-g> me outloud to carrie just now: "Here, send me the text, my computer can count the number of characters for you"
<rick_h_> and helping someone setup bookie
<greg-g> (yes, Mac OS default text editor has no such option/ability)
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> "TextEdit"
<rick_h_> wc ?
<rick_h_> cat file | wc -m
<gamerchick02> greg-g that's kinda lame
<gamerchick02> that it doesn't count characters
<gamerchick02> i mean. ahem
<greg-g> rick_h_: I HAVE NO MANY OPTIONS AT MY DISPOSSAL
<greg-g> s/NO/SO/
<gamerchick02> greg-g there are other text editors for mac
<greg-g> yeah, but, what comes installed by default?
<greg-g> wc and gedit both do it and are installed by default here :)
<gamerchick02> i'm not on the mac right now but i can find a couple. tho you could just... go to the app store.
<gamerchick02> true
<greg-g> fuck the app store, and I don't know if her mac supports that
<greg-g> I have no clue what I'm saying
<greg-g> this is all a weird world to me
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> i do like the app store
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live video: http://youtu.be/cIbeGli2Ufk - Streaming http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> We are chatting on #smlr
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I love the new bookie tag.
<rick_h_> I look forward to the collection growing
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thiank you. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-16
<rick_h_> kickstarter password changed, :( at the whole thing
<cmaloney> Yeah, now you'll have to remember a new password. ;)
<rick_h_> heh, lastpass to the rescue
<rick_h_> I just fought not giving my name/number this weekend to stores
<rick_h_> and kickstarter is giving it away, why am I fighting over it?
<rick_h_> I made the cashier next to mine spit a drink when I said "Look, I just want to give you money for little boy pants. You can still do that right?"
<rick_h_> every damn store "what's your email or phone number?"
<rick_h_> "nunya...nunya business take my money"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I just sumbit. craig@decafbad.net
<cmaloney> I run my own server. You start acting like a dick and I block you.
<cmaloney> My phone # is my Google Voice number
<cmaloney> the one that really pissed me off was Radio Shack
<cmaloney> For the longest time they'd ask you for everything
<cmaloney> "Want a cell phone? Want our battery program? Want to join our handjob of the month club?"
<cmaloney> No.
<cmaloney> And ew
<gamerchick02> happy sunday everyone. :)
<rick_h_> party party
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> 6yo be trippin yo.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> greg-g: hey, need SF advice if you've got time to chat some time
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ruh roh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, nothing bad. We've got a family trip this summer we're planning for
<rick_h_> cmaloney: evidently some long lost uncle is out there and my MIL wants us all to go out and say hi
<greg-g> rick_h_: what's up?
<rick_h_> greg-g: hey, couple of ? for you. I'm looking into places in SF to stay that are cool, walkable, and family friendly. Something kind of nice
<rick_h_> greg-g: and I also wanted to ask if you knew if there's any ways/places that can do some wine touring, but in a family friendly way with a 4yr old :/
<greg-g> hmm....
<rick_h_> greg-g: we'll be out at the end of June, with my in-laws for a few days and without a few more
<greg-g> cool, well, A) Visiting Petaluma, or me going to where ever in Sonoma you end up drinking wine is in order :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: definitely, I've never met the little guy :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: so definitely hoped we could at least setup a dinner one night
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> so, re places that are family friendly in SF to stay.... I guess the question is: do you want to be downtown SF and do that whole thing, or stay in somewhere further way.
<greg-g> I'd imagine more known hotels would be ok in downtown SF.
<rick_h_> I think the plan is to hit down into town. Fisherman's warf, golden gate park, etc seem kid-friendly
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> the Marina area might be an option for ya then
<greg-g> oh, and Q2: not sure, haven't looked into FF wine tours
<greg-g> we did a bike tour, my sister and I
<rick_h_> k, I wasn't sure if you were into that up there
<rick_h_> figured you're close to the stuff might know more, but cool if not
<greg-g> but I'm sure they exist. You can even just go to a few wineries yourself with a picnic
<greg-g> most have picnic areas you can eat in
<rick_h_> cool
<greg-g> but then you have to stay sober :)
<rick_h_> yea, there's a couple of blog posts out there but figured you might have first hand experience with the little guy
<greg-g> not yet :)
<rick_h_> cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-09
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Back in the states?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yep, back home
<rick_h_> still feel like I'm vibrating from a jet engine heh
<cmaloney> Hah
<johnsgruber> cmaloney do you know the program for mug on Tuesday? Don't see it on the website
<cmaloney> jsjgruber: Yeah, unfortunately we didn't get an abstract so I'm having to write it
<cmaloney> Wireless Intrusion Detection Systems using Raspberry Pi
<jsjgruber> cmaloney Thanks.
<cmaloney> jsjgruber: NP. Hope to see you there!
<jsjgruber> Just downloaded and burned the daily build of 15.04. Now to test it.
<cmaloney> Cool
<jsjgruber> Anybody here know what package is is used for live cd bugs? Ran into a problem right away. That's no way to jam :)
<cmaloney> jsjgruber: Not sure. I thought there was whoopsie for handling crash reporting
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> http://rebootdetro.it/
<cmaloney> They have Mike Arrington and Robert Scoble there
<cmaloney> and only $375 (early bird) to see them
<jrwren> a bit strange to have outsiders coming to a conference named reboot detroit eh?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ghouls need bodies.
<greg-g> ooo, Scoble! How can I resist the urge!
<cmaloney> I'm good
<cmaloney> Scoble I lump in with the cult of the new
<cmaloney> Arrington I consider a troll and a ghoul
<jrwren> i be snapping in fingers in the air like a citizen at a city council meeting saying, "we don't need that outside influence. this is our city. they don't know us!"
<cmaloney> I'm all for folks who genuinely want to help
<cmaloney> I'm against paying people for the privilege of having them try to make a buck off of desperation
<brousch> Who is going to fly to Detroit and stay there for free?!
<cmaloney> brousch: Nobody. I don't begrudge them coming and getting paid to come
<cmaloney> but this doesn't pass the sniff test
<cmaloney> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/watch-a-vc-use-my-name-to-sell-a-con/ <- Also I would hate to have Detroit turn into this
<cmaloney> I'm not about paying for the privilege of having that asshole come to find free labor (Arrington)
<jayis> cmaloney: nice read
<cmaloney> jayis: tx.
<rick_h_> ummm, wtf? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/02/washington-lawmakers-want-computer-science-to-count-as-foreign-language
 * rick_h_ is trying to catch up on news/rss from last week :/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Just smile and nod
<cmaloney> Honestly that's one of the more benign stories that won't ever ahppen
<cmaloney> happen
<greg-g> CS counted as a foreign language for purposes of graduation requirements at U of Minnesota
<greg-g> well, to clarify, CS students didn't need to complete the foreign language requirement that everyone else did
<rick_h_> ugh, :(
<greg-g> when I switch to Anthro my junior year I had to start taking spanish again
<jayis> a lot of engineering programs dont require a foreign language req anyways from my experience
<jayis> and I am currently one at WSU and I know Umich AA and Dearborn are the same
 * rick_h_ is a fan of making folks learn other languages
<cmaloney> I joke that computers are a foreign language, but I don't think that's the same as learning a human language
<greg-g> nope
<rick_h_> especially as I travel it's just more and more important imo
<greg-g> as in, agree
<greg-g> agreed
<jayis> apparently we dont need to communicate with other groups
<jayis> xD
<rick_h_> heh
<greg-g> our phones will do it for us
<cmaloney> Yep
<rick_h_> ugh ugh ugh
<cmaloney> OR we'll all use English
<rick_h_> your apple device can't talk to my android one :P
<cmaloney> Pax Americum
<jayis> I am going to take one anyways
<cmaloney> Pax America, rather
<jrwren> i've long forgotten all the french and japanese I ever knew.
<cmaloney> Same
<cmaloney> Though I've remembered all of teh french I ever knew
<cmaloney> Which is none
<jrwren> oui!
<rick_h_> I don't remember much either, but the little I got helps me when traveling all the time with getting snippets of info, able to be a stranger/etc
<rick_h_> and exposed to different ideas and such
<jayis> there is only code!!!
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> KNowing my luck they'd only know unicode
<cmaloney> UTF-16 at that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-10
<cmaloney> God dammit, someone got our card again
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> come on chip and pin, get here already
<cmaloney> And of course it's someone in Columbus Ohio being an idiot
<rick_h_> curse those buckeyes!
<_stink_> cmaloney: that was like 3 weeks ago wasn't it?
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> And apparently this person likes shopping at high class establishments like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, and UDFI
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> Racked up over $800 in charges
<cmaloney> or rather debited my account $800
<cmaloney> And what's even better: I tried using my chip-n-pin at Meijer. Didn't work
<jrwren> what is UDFI?
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: do you mean UEFI?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: no. I mean some store in Columbus at which cmaloney's card number is being used.
<mrgoodcat> ah lol ok nevermind
<mrgoodcat> oh yea backlog is hard
<mrgoodcat> 5 lines up
<mrgoodcat> can't read
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> United Dairy Farmers INc.
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^^
<cmaloney> It's a 7-11 for Ohio
<cmaloney> They briefly had them up here.
<cmaloney> iirc
<cmaloney> Not up on my party-store wanna-bes
<jrwren> cmaloney: that sucks. Sorry you got cloned.
<cmaloney> Yeah, second time.
<cmaloney> Worst part is this one is going to be a little more drawn out
<cmaloney> BoA called us this morning to let us know. Apparently last night they didn't do everything they needed to do to fix things
<cmaloney> Sad thing is if someone needed a tank of gas that badly I would have given it to them
<cmaloney> not so much on the TJ Maxx / Marshalls spree
<cmaloney> Mostly because we don't have that kind of money to spread around
<cmaloney> I feel bad for the person who felt it necessary to commit fraud to get what they want
<akelling> Only see United Dairy in the Columbus area
<cmaloney> Yeah, I thought there was something similar in this area but they were rather short lived.
<greg-g> g'morn
<greg-g> cmaloney: I hope everything is taken care of by BoA :/
<jrwren> BoA is evil empire!
 * jrwren goes and listens to SNOG
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Thanks.
<cmaloney> They'll be fine I'm sure
<cmaloney> just annoying
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> time and patience I didn't have to give
<cmaloney> Well, that's another matter. :)
<cmaloney> It must be six months since lmorchard played with his blog. I'm seeing new entries in my RSS feed. ;)
<cmaloney> new old entries.
<lmorchard> Yup
<lmorchard> Oh, well thatâs unintended, but I did post a new entry
<cmaloney> Heh
<lmorchard> And I also built & published it from a windows machine for the novelty of it
<cmaloney> So coffeescript is out eh?
<lmorchard> Lots of folks still using it, but ES6 seems to be the writing on the wall for many things I see around work
<cmaloney> That's cool
<lmorchard> Helps that weâve got multiple tools to transpile from ES6 to current JS, toio
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> if it fixes Javascript so I don't feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette with a simple if statement then I'll be happy.
<lmorchard> Well, ES6 hasnât jettisoned braces, so thereâs that
<cmaloney> That one doesn't bother me as much
<cmaloney> That's a holdover from C if I'm reading what you're writing correctly.
<lmorchard> coffeescript surprised me more than once with block structure in ways python never did
<lmorchard> but of course, itâs by and for rubists, and Iâve never been a ruby fan
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Ruby looks like bad Perl to me.
<lmorchard> Yeah, though I had more fun with perl nerds than ruby nerds :)
<cmaloney> God... watching people in @kivy talk about ad networks on Android
<cmaloney> I understand why people do ad-supported versions of software, I just hate the concept
<brousch> So many people are too cheap to pay for an app, and many others have no qualms with pirating them
<brousch> But ads suck
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/metal-in-the-mainstream/killswitch-engages-adam-d-won-the-price-is-right-today-seriously
<jrwren> http://teamcoco.com/video/punch-brothers-02-09-15
<cmaloney> brousch: Oh I know. I've had this conversation
<cmaloney> and I remember ponying up $15+ in 1990s dollars for Palm apps.
<jrwren> cmaloney: palm was even more heavy handed with taking their cut than apple and google today.
<jrwren> cmaloney: IIRC it was like 80% went to palm and 20% to app devs
<cmaloney> Yeah, I never released anything via Palm so I have NFC what their cut was
<cmaloney> but $30 for an app was not unheard of
<cmaloney> http://www.pimlicosoftware.com/datebk3.htm
<cmaloney> Holy shit, there's still development
<brousch> cmaloney: Darn, I was hoping you had a profitable app dev model
<brousch> The best I've come up with ad-supported but with the ability to suppress ads via in-app purchase
<brousch> Suppress them for a time span, not forever
<brousch> So you get continuing revenue from the ads or from the suppression
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I don't particularly like that model either. :)
<cmaloney> But it's workable
<cmaloney> Also: https://bookie.io/craig/recent/centos?count=50&page=0
<cmaloney> Nice to see that Ubuntu can install CentOS in a container
<brousch> I've not actually seen an app using my revenue model
<cmaloney> That's how most of the "Free" versions of my apps on my phone work
<cmaloney> though you have to buy the pro version and remove the "free" version
<brousch> I've only seen free w/ ads version or paid version
<cmaloney> but some have freemium models
<cmaloney> The "pay subscription for continued revenue" seems a little douchey to me
<brousch> Show me one with "turn off ads for 3 months for $0.99"
<cmaloney> That's easy. new version every 3 months. ;)
<brousch> But then you lose all of the reviews and the install count
<brousch> I want a single app with all features enabled. You pay per month to optionally turn off ads.
<cmaloney> I want to know how this became my problem to find an app that does this. :)
<brousch> You said "cmaloney> That's how most of the "Free" versions of my apps on my phone work"
<cmaloney> I meant they have versions where you can turn off ads
<cmaloney> but most of them aren't time-based
<brousch> Ah, right, but the time based is the key to making it sustainable
<brousch> hmmmmm http://onethingwell.org/post/110641585238/juju
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-11
<jrwren> FYI: penguicon is looking for tech speakers.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, Kevin O'Brien is looking for folks willing to speak at Penguicon.
<cmaloney> If anyone is interested please PM one of us and we'll send you his email address
<brousch> Where can I rent a furry suit?
<cmaloney> https://www.pinterest.com/michiganhumane/a-small-and-furrys-paradise/
<cmaloney> brousch: I hope I gave you some pause with that link. :)
<brousch> I actually know a few furries here
<brousch> Hm, I could stay at my sister's house. She is 15mins away from it
<cmaloney> brousch: We'd love you to come down and be here. :)
<cmaloney> It's a lot of fun
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all
<brousch> Here you go, keyboard fetishists http://www.toptal.com/embedded/from-the-ground-up-how-i-built-the-developers-dream-keybooard
<cmaloney> Sorry, that's not my dream keyboard by any stretch
<cmaloney> 1) hate split keyboards 2) hate hiding esc, Fn keys
<cmaloney> 3) hate hate hate splitkeyboards
<cmaloney> 4) If you're going to split the keyboard you need to have a better anchor than just rubber feet
<mthx|laptop> I just ordered myself this keyboard last week <http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4C-professional/>
<akelling> mmmm keyboard porn
 * akelling loves his Unicomp
<greg-g> Kinesis for life.
<rick_h_> unicomp is nice but needs a 10less, kenisis ftw if you have wrist issues.
<rick_h_> and that one in the blog post is interesting but is really just a split keyboard. the freestyle's been doing that and with better ergo https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/
<rick_h_> mthx|laptop: the das is just an overpriced cherry keyboard. get a filco and save some $$ without the badge. "With Incredible Psycho-Acoustic Experience" lol
<rick_h_> though the usb hub in there is cool I guess, but it's usb2
<brousch> But his is hand made
<brousch> I expect a wooden version from you within 6 months
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I'll just keep using my kenisis and when not on this my thinkpad keyboards
<cmaloney> I've enjoyed my Leopold keyboards, but they're on the cheaper-end
<cmaloney> not as resiliant to my rages. :)
<brousch> Your fingers lay on this thing for hours each day. Shouldn't they be touching keys you've hand-crafted with love?
<cmaloney> brousch: Too many ways to go horribly wrong with that last sentence.
<akelling> I always liked the MS Split keyboards that they have not made in years
<akelling> Think they where called the Natrual line up and they where cheap too.
<mthx|laptop> rick_h_: Filco looks decent. It's very bland though, and there is that problematic windows icon on the super key. I have been testing out one of my coworkers Das 4 Ultimates for a bit now and it feels and looks amazing. It feels so much better than my Logitech G105 and my Apple Keyboard. As important as function is, I also really appreciate how asthetically apealing the 4 Ultimate is, and also the 4C professional. I also detest havi
<mthx|laptop> ng a windows icon on keyboard. The Das logo is an acceptable replacment. Yes, aesthetics are very important to me. Several mechanical keyboards never made it past the first round because they were horribly ugly (sorry Unicomp). I had not see filco before, but there's nothing stand out about the way it looks.
<mthx|laptop> Correction* The one I've been testing is the DAS 3 Ultimate.
<cmaloney> mthx|laptop: I'm surprised the Logitech G105 made it so far in your aesthetics filtering
<cmaloney> That's one ugly keyboard. :)
<mthx|laptop> It was a replacement keyboard for one that I spilled apple juice on a year or so ago :(  I needed something quick, so it was whatever best buy had.
<cmaloney> yeah, anything Logitech G-series is ugly IMHO
<cmaloney> Had one for a while, and returned it
<cmaloney> Th eold amber one (not the one with the display)
<mthx|laptop> Which btw, apple juice is nearly impossible to completely remove. I disassembled my old one several times and deep cleaned it, but it was forever sticky.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's as bad as Mt. Dew
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-12
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Well I was worried about that
<rick_h_> if there was a party or not?
<cmaloney> Massage parlour in Ferndale
<cmaloney> and the lack thereof
<rick_h_> oh heh
<cmaloney> Fucking Ferndale
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> _stink_: you going to http://kalamazoox.org ?
<_stink_> naw
<_stink_> i stay firmly under my roof
<jrwren> _stink_: :(
<_stink_> :P
<cmaloney> almost Evening. :)
 * cmaloney picked up the Open Goldberg discs and finally got them delivered.
<cmaloney> Nice to have something that is so blatantly aware that it is in the public domain
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-13
<cmaloney> Wow, talk about timing: https://kimikoishizaka.bandcamp.com/album/bach-well-tempered-clavier-book-1
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> happy superstitious day
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> I WANT ONE! http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/13/google-and-mattel-revive-the-85-year-old-view-master-with-cardboard-vr/
<cmaloney> Nice.
<brousch> rick_h_: One of the first apps was a sterogram viewer for Google Cardboard
<jrwren> wtf is google cardboard?
<cmaloney> It's a cardboard set of goggles you can use with your Android phone
<cmaloney> allows you to simulate VR
<cmaloney> aka Occulus Rift without the expense.
<brousch> https://www.google.com/get/cardboard/
<brousch> It's a nifty gimmick
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-14
<ADAG10> Evenin', fellas and/or ladies.
<jayis> hi
<_stink_> HI
<jayis> HEY
<_stink_> why do you torment me
<cmaloney> hooooooo
<jayis> I follow you through the internetz
<_stink_> i'll go through a narrow passage
<_stink_> stopping you
<cmaloney> heh
<jayis> youre so nimble
<jayis> I should come to a MUG meeting sometime
<jayis> I was watching some of the recorded ones
<cmaloney> ornoing
<cmaloney> jayis: yes, yes you shpould. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-15
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> pipe's frozen yo
<brousch> Time to move out of this frozen wasteland
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<ADAG10> Afternoon, cmaloney
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-15
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> o_O
<rick_h__> umm, party
<cmaloney> https://lepoka.bandcamp.com/album/beerserkers-2016-album
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h___> party
 * jrwren sings madanna - holiday
 * cmaloney is having my face ripped off by some amazing metal
<jrwren> sounds fun.
<cmaloney> It is
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/collection/YTWob
<cmaloney> bzr 2.7.0 released
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-16
<cmaloney> Morning... er... afternoon
<rick_h__> afternoon party
 * greg-g hasn't even finished his french press yet
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Getting ready for a meeting. Woo woo.
<rick_h__> greg-g: slacker!
<greg-g> west coast slacker!
<rick_h__> greg-g: :)
<cmaloney> Yay, having a report that I thought was gone come back today.
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/metal-merch/you-can-have-this-ridiculously-realistic-kiss-mask-for-1000
<cmaloney> Just once in my life I'd like to be able to type variable and not either mistype it or have it look funny
<cmaloney> https://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2016/02/cve-2015-7547-glibc-getaddrinfo-stack.html?m=1 <- Yay!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-17
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party part
<rick_h_> err y
<cmaloney> part part
<cmaloney> We don't need to know y. ;)
<_stink_> wow
<rick_h_> crazy talk
<_stink_> groan?
<rick_h_> it got a reaction, that's a winner
<rick_h_> cmaloney: goes on the road with his bag of awesome one-liners
<rick_h_> cmaloney: the G+ post from jodee on the game thing was awesome btw
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, she's had to endure some of my designs
<cmaloney> Some that were more brilliant in the planning than in the playing
<cmaloney> She also would like to have a game that doesn't require a large rulebook
<cmaloney> but that's crazy-talk
<cmaloney> it's not a game unless we have to consult the rulebook at least 5 times in the first round
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-18
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party party
<_stink_> yes
<cmaloney> Morning. :)
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-19
<jcastro> hey rick_h_
<jcastro> and also cmaloney
<rick_h_> jcastro: party
<jcastro> I was thinking maybe we can meet in RO for brunch or something for me to buy that laptop
<rick_h_> jcastro: wfm
<jcastro> and then we might as well just do a quick nerd meetup anyway
<rick_h_> jcastro: or happy to drive out
<jcastro> out here?
<rick_h_> jcastro: found the 5x and updated it and charged it all ip
<rick_h_> jcastro: wfm nomproblem driving out
<jcastro> how far is RO to you?
<rick_h_> jcastro: 40min
<jcastro> you still like 50 miles north of normal metro detroit? :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: exit 89 baby
 * rick_h_ heads in to see deadpool
<jcastro> hmm, how about lockhart's bbq?
<rick_h_> jcastro: always +1 for bbq
<jcastro> ok, is your wife around too?
<rick_h_> jcastro: depends on time. she's got rounds
<rick_h_> jcastro: so earlier in the day no , later yes
<jcastro> ack, lmk, I'm sure jill would like to visit since it's been a while
<jcastro> I am flexible time wise
<rick_h_> k, early dinner? 5 or 6?
<jcastro> hmm that won't work, we have a deadpool date with another couple back down here in the evening
<jcastro> yes, I am seeing it again
<jcastro> yes, it was that awesome.
<rick_h_> k, late lunch 2 ish?
<jcastro> \o/
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> ok, let's go with 2pm?
<jcastro> lockharts?
<jcastro> cmaloney: ^^ get in on this.
<rick_h_> k this tomorrow 2pm lockharts?
<jcastro> ack
<rick_h_> k will pass along to the wife
<rick_h_> let me know if itnchabged based on cmaloney feedback
 * rick_h_ goes to see this awesomeness movie now
<jcastro> lmk when you get back
<jcastro> you will love it
<cmaloney> jcastro: Damming, can't make it. :)
<cmaloney> This weekend is booked
<jcastro> every time craig
<jcastro> every time
<cmaloney> Seriously, WTF man
<jcastro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTGKQkGdxg
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Also: Deadpool date is the name of my new stoner shoegaze black metal outfit
<cmaloney> I think I need to have a game night at some point
<cmaloney> some point where we have a basement that isn't a complete embarrassment / cat jungle jim
<_stink_> embrace the embarrassment
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, I'll need to clean out the tumbleweeds of cat hair out first
<cmaloney> I love it when code works
<cmaloney> Beats the alternatives
<rick_h_> ok  deadpool was cool
<brousch> Deadpool was awesome
<mrgoodcat> deadpool is the best marvel movie so far
<mrgoodcat> deadpool > gotg > antman > all the other marvel movies
<cmaloney> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3035259/opensource-subnet/reviewing-the-lenovo-11e-a-sub-300-thinkpad-with-great-linux-support.html <- Dammit
<cmaloney> Although I wish more laptops would offer a NVidia upgrade
<jrwren> whoa, irssi just core dumped
<cmaloney> You're welcome
<jrwren> i wonder if someone tried to exploit me via that glibc vuln or something crazy
<cmaloney> That would be worrisome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-20
<jrwren> what is that law that says software takes the structure of the org that builds it
<jrwren> Conway's law.
<rick_h_> jrwren: running into that lately?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lockharts moved to 11am if that changes anything for you
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thanks. Unfortuantely I can't make it.
<cmaloney> But please keep me in mind for next time
<rick_h_> cmaloney: all good
<jrwren> rick_h_: there was a reddit post that was basically, "how can I Conway?"  I wanted to reply with, "this is conway's law"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-21
<tony-smlr> we are about to go live with Sunday Morning Linux Review Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErouQQX6nqM Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/event/sunday-morning-linux-review/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> afternoon
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's that time isn't it?
<cmaloney> Just sorted through a bunch of book PDfs
<cmaloney> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XBTHJvuNvuU/maxresdefault.jpg
<cmaloney> Something comforting about that
<cmaloney> lmorchard23: Your keyboard hackery is inspiring
<rick_h_> lol or trouble inducing
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-13
<shakes808> morning
<brousch__> yes
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> maybe?
<rick_h> probably
<rick_h> let's think positive
<_stink_> wow rick_h
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> wow?
<_stink_> this positivity
<_stink_> i'm not used to it
<rick_h> oic, well what can I say
<_stink_> it's the sunshine
<_stink_> it makes people feel great
<rick_h> have to say I'm working in the living room by the giant doorwall so I can get some natural light going
<rick_h> updated the dry-erase calendar for the next month and loved seeing daylight-savings a month out
<_stink_> evening sun!
<rick_h> yea, will be nice
 * rick_h is getting excited
<jrwren> i'm already very happy that there is post 5:30pm sun.
<rick_h> we're heading to VA with the camper first week of april so have ot start thinking of getting it out of storage and the like soon
<rick_h> which means getting the mountain bike ready, wheeee
<rick_h> happy times coming soon
<jrwren> yesterday was almost warm enough and dry enough for me to try the bike, but I wussed out.
<rick_h> it was cold yesterday here. 20s at one point
<rick_h> I'm kind of a "needs to be > 40 for me to bike it" kind of wimp
<jrwren> same.
<jrwren> it got up to 40-42 here early and late afternoon.. but the rain was mixed. and the wind was crazy.
<rick_h> oh yea, we had rain and then sideways snow and then
<rick_h> 55 and sunny on sat?
<_stink_> sunny all week i think
<cmaloney> Still think DST should die in a fire
<jrwren> +1
<rick_h> cmaloney: I don't disagree, but I much prefer sunlight in the morning and after work EOD
<cmaloney> You get that for free when the Earth hit's that part of its orbit. :)
<cmaloney> although I think it's quint: when GWB reset DST to be earlier / end later than it did I thought to myself "what about all of those VCRs that auto-adjusted for DST"?
<cmaloney> Now I'm thinking "if it isn't on the internet / atomic-clock-driven I'm loathe to even set the clock"
<rick_h> only get devices that pull time from sattelites, radio signals, or your own two hands
<cmaloney> Well, my computer doesn't get time from any of them
<cmaloney> NTP
<rick_h> that's satelites in my book
<rick_h> and :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> microwave & stovetop clocks... require setting... every... time...
<cmaloney> Yes
<rick_h> clocks on walls
<cmaloney> and if I could get away with never setting them I would
<cmaloney> Thermostat is on the internet, and the "wall clock" is radio-wave-driven
<rick_h> ah, we've got 3 on the wall clocks that are just AA based hand configured things
<rick_h> cmaloney: you go nest with your thermostat?
<cmaloney> No, we replaced the AC unit and they put in some Janky Sensi thing
<rick_h> oic
<cmaloney> It works, you can get to it from your phone
<rick_h> ah cool
<cmaloney> and I'm pretty sure I should put it on its own subnet. ;)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "just going to VLAN you off here...and best if you sit behind this firewall of doom"
<jrwren> i got new furnace adn ac and said "no" to the fancy wifi shit.
<jrwren> i'm anti connected devices.
<jrwren> as far as I can see, it only complecates things and does not improve my life at all.
<jrwren> don't forget to firewall its outbound as well as its inbound.
<greg-g> +1000
<greg-g> https://twitter.com/internetofshit
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> TIL: there's a place in Birmingham that sells synths and euroracks
<cmaloney> as if I needed another expensive hobby
<jrwren> what place?
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> https://www.detroitmodular.com/
<cmaloney> The only saving grace is it appears they only do showings via appointment
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-14
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4MM6sETdJ0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-15
<rick_h> woot! cmaloney's head!
<cmaloney> yay!
<shakes808> cmaloney: did you know about http://ubuntusatanic.org/ and http://ubuntusatanic.org/music.php
<cmaloney> I did
<cmaloney> I heard a rumor that OMC was included as one of the podcasts
<shakes808> saw an article the other day and thought of you and OMC.  I am not sure.  I was going to check it out but it is based off of 10.10 and doesn't look like it is active any longer
<cmaloney> Yeah, I doubt it lasted
<shakes808> would be interesting to take that project and update :)
<shakes808> see if it still works :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-16
<jrwren> ermuhgurd... UKUI might be the linux desktop i've always wanted.
<gamerchick02> really? nice.
<jrwren> probably not, but I think it is cool
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Just got back from the WIngs / Blues game
<_stink__> nice!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<shakes808> good morning! :)
<shakes808> cmaloney: rick_h: are you still active with CHC?  there is someone in CHC IRC asking
<rick_h> cmaloney: no, on a bowling league CHC night these days
<cmaloney> I'm still active, but I was out last night
<cmaloney> apparently rick_h is doing everything but CHC. ;)
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<shakes808> rick_h == living life ? ! haha
<rick_h> heh, trying to
<jrwren> live life, because you are going to die.
<rick_h> rumor has it
<cmaloney> That's good to know
<rick_h> though I'm not so sure
<jrwren> https://youtu.be/snEcAdbGXTY
<cmaloney> rick_h: Do you have permission to add people to https://github.com/coffeehousecoders ?
 * rick_h looks
<rick_h> cmaloney: yes
<cmaloney> please add me. :)
<cmaloney> Thanks. :)
<rick_h> doh you're not cmaloney
<rick_h> what's your GH username?
<cmaloney> craigmaloney
<rick_h> sent
<cmaloney> danke.
<rick_h> np, thanks for being a CHC super hero
<cmaloney> Well, I have to have somewhere for rick_h to come back to. :)
<cmaloney> Honestly, I think I'll be at the coffee shop tonight if anyone wants to meet up. JoDee's got class tonight.
<cmaloney> Or I should say "JoDee is going to class tonight". Both of her classes this semester are terrible
<_stink__> booo
<cmaloney> Yeah, remarkably so
<cmaloney> they're both classes that are essentially "online"
<jrwren> ewe.
<jrwren> what school? what courses?
<cmaloney> OCC
<cmaloney> The database course at the Royal Oak Campus is remarkably terrible
<cmaloney> They're using Visio and Access
<cmaloney> and she's having to teach herself
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> zomg.
<jrwren> oh, she is taking the courses, not teaching them?
<cmaloney> It's using some CEngage book / site that isn't _too_ bad, but trying to figure out what they want becomes a game of mastermind, not learning
<cmaloney> She's taking them
<cmaloney> The other one is a networking class, but she's actually learning things in that class
<jrwren> Why did I think she was a professor or instructor?
<cmaloney> the instructor wants to help, but it seems he got this "course" dumped on him.
<cmaloney> she is, but she also takes classes
<cmaloney> stuff that interests her
<cmaloney> which is a pisser because the Database class was the one she was looking forward to taking
<cmaloney> because astronomy == databases.
<cmaloney> but she's having to teach herself the material because the instructor (no joke) reads the textbook to them
<jrwren> ah!
<cmaloney> but in a "skimming the textbook" sort of way
<jrwren> HOLY SHIT!?!?  at OCC?!?  amazeballs.
<cmaloney> That's the full-time faculty too
<jrwren> then again, i know what CC instructors get paid. I can't blame them much.
<jrwren> WHAT?!?!
<cmaloney> a-yep
<jrwren> its not a research school. wtf else does a full-time faculty do at a CC?
<cmaloney> she's pissed off
<cmaloney> Apparently play story-time with databases
<jrwren> she should be.
<cmaloney> Well, there's things full-time faculty do
<cmaloney> curriculum work, class-load, mentoring of adjuncts
<jrwren> i wonder who teaches the DB course at OU these days. When I took it, it was very good
<cmaloney> paperwork
<cmaloney> Well, I didn't get the position with Open Source Robotics. :(
<Zimdale> :(
<rick_h> cmaloney: :(
<shakes808> that sucks,  sorry to hear
<cmaloney> No worries. I had a feeling they were going to pass
<shakes808> my buddy said he doesn't have that much work to add another person.  but he said that he will keep your information in case something comes up that fits your bill
<cmaloney> No worriesl
<cmaloney> UNfortunately I'm in a strange position in my career
<cmaloney> cost too much for junior work, competent in a lot of older stuff, and cloud-illiterate
<shakes808> haha, well, i would hope you wouldn't be considering the "junior" work.  You could try automotive, they work with "older" technologies ;)  JK :)
<shakes808> I can reach out to my last employer to see if they are looking.  they are working with VB and C#
<shakes808> I know you are looking for something else, but it is a job
<cmaloney> Nah, that's quite alright
<shakes808> alright
<cmaloney> I'm also a little more picky than I probably should be
<cmaloney> I don't want to do sales / marketing / automotive / healthcare
<cmaloney> and that's pretty much what everyone in this area does
<cmaloney> which is partly why that position at OSR was so appealing
<shakes808> if you are able to be picky, then do it.  but just don't put yourself in a bad place ( financially )
<cmaloney> but they're also a younger company. I'm old.
<cmaloney> I'm 45. I don't go skiing because I'll break things.
<shakes808> have you thought about teaching?   Could go the the local comm college and see if you could pick up a class or two
<shakes808> HAHAHAHAHA
<shakes808> But that is all the fun
<shakes808> Try snowboarding.  less likely to break something :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's quite alright
<brousch__> :-(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-17
<chrstphr> Greetings...everybody
<_stink__> yo
<jrwren> hello
<chrstphr> yolo stink
<chrstphr> what did i miss?
<cmaloney> 4 hours of idling
<chrstphr> idle here, idle there, it's all good!
<_stink__> yes
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> morning
<jrwren> Good morning
<_stink__> yo
<jrwren> more evidence that Go is written by someone who doesn't know much: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/gdp1q6T0DNY  Rob doesn't understand sendfile and thinks that "it can be written in a few lines of efficient user code."
<cmaloney> Um
<cmaloney> That's an awesome way to get buffer-overruns if you have "a few lines of efficient user code"
<cmaloney> Pretty sure this is a moonshot: http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/135577/director-of-product-engineering-creative-commons
<jrwren> I think it can easily be done without buffer-overruns.
<jrwren> sendfile exists for zerocopy. The kernel knows about hte open file and the open socket (or two sockets, or two files) and can copy data between them without copying the data to user space.
<jrwren> I'd have expected an expert like Rob Pike to both know and understand this.
<jrwren> The more I go down this go rabbit whole, the more I realize it really is garbage.
<cmaloney> OK, I think I'm missing something here
<cmaloney> So they're looking for a way in Go to use Sendfile?
<cmaloney> or a way to replicate what sendfile does without the kernel call?
<cmaloney> (but yeah, that R. Pike didn't know about that call is a little concerning. ;))
<jrwren> the link i posted is 7yrs old.
<cmaloney> right, i got that
<jrwren> its the dismissiveness and unawaredness which concerns me.
<cmaloney> Well, it does have a certain "BSD doesn't do that" vibe to it
<cmaloney> or rather "huh, these kids and their system calls"
<cmaloney> (BSD does have it, so I'm reading things wrong)
 * cmaloney is feeling less like a programmer and more like a punter.
<jrwren> plan9 probably has no userspace and everythig is kernel space and hence r pike's lack of understanding.
<_stink__> hah
<jrwren> or... apparently sendcopy is a helper function for splice. maybe rpike knew how to use splice... i'll bet not though, given his userspace comment.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-18
<cmaloney> Two of my presentations were accepted for Penguicon
<cmaloney> Woo woo!
<cmaloney> And the release party is also on for Penguicon
<Zimdale> \o/
<gamerchick02> nice!!
<gamerchick02> congrats on the presentations
<cmaloney> THank you. :)
<Zimdale> What presentations are you doing?
<cmaloney> INtroduction to debugging in Python
<cmaloney> and The Rise and Sudden Fall of the Jupiter ACE Computer
<Zimdale> ah cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, wanted to do something a little more technical this year.
<cmaloney> Plus the Intro to Debugging in Python could also be presented at PyOhio
<rick_h> nice cmaloney!
<cmaloney> rick_h: Thank you
<jrwren> wtf is teh jupiter ace?
<rick_h> heh, more a shooting star I guess
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's a micro computer that ran Forth natively
<cmaloney> done by two ex Sinclair employees
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ace
<jrwren> ah! i wiki'd it. i was going to say, looks like a sinclair
<cmaloney> It's exceptionally rare. They made 8,000 units of the ACE and around 500 of the follow-up 4000
<cmaloney> sorry, 800 units of the 4000
<cmaloney> I remember seeng adverts for it in magazines and it fascinated me
<cmaloney> but of course I never picked one up
<jrwren> my old man came home with a sinclair from a garage sale... must have been '86, so I played with it a bit, but it was weak compared to the 800XL with which I was accustomed and with no docs... i was pretty stuck.
<jrwren> sometime in '87 got the Amiga 1000 used, and that ended my time with 8bit ;)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, the Sinclair was definitely underpowered
<cmaloney> especially the ZX 80 / 81
<cmaloney> the Spectrum is a little better, but still quirky
<cmaloney> And yeah, the Amiga was the true successor to the Atari 800
<cmaloney> Jay Miner / Joe Decuir are two of my heroes for what they eeked out of silicon
<cmaloney> But sadly Chris Crawford's prediction that the Macintosh would do to Amiga what the Apple II did to the Atari 8-bit came true
<cmaloney> It didn't help that Commodore couldn't find a CEO quite like Jack Tramiel. It also didn't help that they hired a charlatan in Mehdi Ali
<jrwren> yeah, commodore really messed it up.
<cmaloney> Good day
<gamerchick02> it's not bad. :)
<gamerchick02> some jerk's left their crap in the washing machine so i can't get my stuff started. >_<
<jrwren> take it out and throw it on teh floor. :)
<gamerchick02> i'm about ready to
<gamerchick02> the people in this building are a bunch of jerks
<gamerchick02> at least Chelsea won and the wings are ahead 1-0.
<rick_h> oh crap
<rick_h> a
<rick_h> band has moved into the garage across the street
<rick_h> lol, drums, guitar, and some poorly played green day
<jrwren> \m/
<jrwren> now you gotta join, with your guitar.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-19
<cmaloney> rick_h: Nice
<rick_h> Well they have loud amps.
<rick_h> Must be kiddy dinner time. They're done now.
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> least they didn't play at 10 pm!
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> TIL: Linux Central is still around
<cmaloney> TIAL: Linux Central is selling Ubuntu 9.04 CDs.
<jrwren> rick_h: wednesday isyour birthday?
<jrwren> cmaloney: in that case, TIL: Linux Central is still around. That is the one started by that guy in Sterline Heights?
<cmaloney> I think so
<cmaloney> jrwren: Wed is rick_h's B-Day
<jrwren> I can't remember how old rick_h is. Is he turning 40? or is that still a year or two off?
<cmaloney> I don't have the year recorded. I recorded it with the current year when i put it in my birthday-reminder daemon
<cmaloney> so he's turning 9
<cmaloney> which may not be too far off
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> cmaloney: look at linuxcentral.com, scroll down see recent additions and most recent is 2012 :(
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Only reason I ran into them was because someone was looking for screen-printed CDs / DVDs for Penguicon
<cmaloney> or USB keys for distros
<cmaloney> and Knoppix lists them as somewhere that still sells Knoppix CDs
<cmaloney> which is true, but they're older than dirt
<jrwren> ha! wow.
<jrwren> i remember meeting the owner/founder at mdlug. He was a nice guy.
<jrwren> this was back when SGI hosted mdlug.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I wish I was part of MDLug back when I first heard about them
<cmaloney> but I was afraid that one of the managers at Ford (who was a bit of a dick) was goind there.
<cmaloney> Can't eeven remember his name. That's about as much stock that I should have put into it
<rick_h> The year was 78
<rick_h> And just parked up a curb at the zoo...Wtf today?
<cmaloney> First decent weather in a long while
<cmaloney> so of course the zoo is parked up
<cmaloney> rick_h: Oh, just remembered: Famous Daves in Rochester is no more. :(
<cmaloney> we had a sad when we drove up to see that it no longer existed.
<cmaloney> since we have good memories of that place around Michael's birthday.
<jrwren> that is the one and only location of Famous Daves I was ever at... for my bro-in-laws birthday many years ago. I was impressed, for a chain.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it was pretty decent for chain BBQ
<cmaloney> It's still out there in MI, but not in this area. MOstly on the west-side.
<rick_h> Bad Brad's is the fav now
<rick_h> And it's a lot closer to the house.
<cmaloney> We'll have to try that sometime
<rick_h> cmaloney: welcome to come up for an early b-day dinner wed
<rick_h> cmaloney: going to head there before bowling league for some viddles
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-12
<cmaloney> Good morning
<waldo323> good morning!
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> MUG meeting tomorrow (where has this month gone already? Sheesh)
<rick_h> Wheee
<waldo323> it slipped down the road?
<rick_h> no, didn't go out today. I think stuff should be fine today. Yesterday had one slippery moment
<rick_h> but they cancelled school again...
<waldo323> when I came to work the roads were good but I think there is some ice in my wheel wells
<cmaloney> I drove JoDee to work and took 12 mile because 696 had three lanes shut
<cmaloney> I skidded to a stop over by the tech center
<Scary_Guy> morning
<rick_h> wheeeee
<waldo323> have we had a talk on tmux at mug?
<cmaloney> I don't think so
<cmaloney> Add that to the list of topics
<cmaloney> If nobody volunteers I'll be more than happy to do a quickie talk on tmux
 * cmaloney still needs to come up with a talk for Penguicon
<Zimdale> I'd be fairly interested in a talk about tmux
<Zimdale> same with vim
<Scary_Guy> I'd love a brief overview of topics and then a brief overview of the competing tech.  vi/emacs, tmux/screen...  maybe we'll see a fistfight :p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-13
<waldo323> cmaloney, sorry yesterday got out of hand and I see you added tmux before I got to it.  thanks
<waldo323> speaksing of trello,  mug.org has a trello board for posting topics for topics you'd like to see at mug.  it also provides the opportunity to vote on subjects already suggested
<cmaloney> waldo323: No worries.
<cmaloney> waldo323: Where would I find this magical board of topic trendiness and possible presentation perfection perchance?
<cmaloney> Would it be at https://trello.com/b/FNxnn9mt/michigan-usr-group-topics-speakers ?
<cmaloney> waldo323: I just noticed that tmux wasn't there and figured I'd add it while I was looking at it. :)
<waldo323> ah, thank you
<waldo323> in case there is interest our trello topics board is at https://trello.com/b/FNxnn9mt/michigan-usr-group-topics-speakers
<rick_h> waldo323: you're going to be there tonight. I'm bringing out the switch and the lights right?
<waldo323> yes, thank you
<waldo323> I get out of work at 5 and head home to get my video camera and then back to the library
<cmaloney> rick_h: You're going to be there too? Awesome!
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, going to make the trek out
<cmaloney> Awesomesauce!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-14
<rick_h> morning and such
<rick_h> cmaloney: if you get a chance to nab those slides let me know please. There's a link or two I wanted to pull from them
<cmaloney> rick_h: Will do
<cmaloney> I know the video is being worked on as well
<rick_h> cmaloney: coolio
<greg-g> is there a recording from jcastro's talk last night?
<cmaloney> Yes, but it is still being edited
<greg-g> cool, I wanna watch
<waldo323_> I have the video up but I need to silence some coughs and some other loud noises, it initially encoded to a low setting but I guess over time the higher resolutions have since been made available
<waldo323_> I can pass along the current link if you don't want to wait for the potential audio improvements
<greg-g> waldo323_: I won't get to watching it until tomorrow, so no rush
<jrwren> i just want to know if anyone asked him about juju while he was talking about k8s.  :)
<cmaloney> Not really
<cmaloney> He did mention Juju once during the talk
<jrwren> NO WAI!
<cmaloney> Yeah, in a list of something-or-others that you can use with K8
<rick_h> well I think he knew I was watching :P
<rick_h> "and yea there's other stuff you can go ask Rick about"
<rick_h> but he stuck to minikube and kubeadmin as his recommended ways of tinkering
<greg-g> the minikube deb package? is just a binary they built and put inside a deb. We're re-packaging it for Stretch :)
<greg-g> similar for helm, afaik
<jrwren> wuts wrong with a binary inside of a deb? :p
<greg-g> Our Opsen would kill us :)
<jrwren> ah, so... nothing but legacy fear.
<greg-g> same if we tried a curl | sudo bash
<jrwren> oh! you mean no source deb.  yeah, that does suck.
<jrwren> I'm glad there is ANY deb these days.
<greg-g> right, sorry, unclear
<jrwren> minkube and helm you say? I could probably package those.
<jrwren> greg-g: any more you see that don't source deb, lemme know, plz.
<greg-g> !!!
<greg-g> that's our list for now, I'll let you know :)
<greg-g> jrwren: for Stretch? that's our target
<jrwren> greg-g: I don't see why not. As long as there is a go there, and if there isn't, I can get a Go there.
<greg-g> there is
<jrwren> greg-g: but, getting it into debian proper will be the harder part.
<greg-g> totally
<greg-g> minikube is 1.8+, so Stretch only (from what my teammate said this morning)
<greg-g> go 1.8+, that is
<jrwren> do you run your own repo on top of stretch?
<jrwren> or are you stretch only?
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> so all you are really looking for is working source packages. that makes it much easier..
<jrwren> I don't get it, looks like someone is already doing something, but bits are checked in?  https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/commit/b365b84301fe5fe1af91d5811d7599480262c7c1
<greg-g> yeah, dunno what upstream is doing
<jrwren> so I take it y'all don't use image based workflows for anything either? :)
<greg-g> jrwren: https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/blob/master/Makefile#L224-L231
<greg-g> jrwren: btw, where my guy is already with it: https://github.com/thcipriani/releng-debs-minikube/tree/master/debian
<jrwren> oh cool, so its done. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-15
<rick_h> There next "you're holding it wrong"? https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/14/17012382/apple-homepod-white-ring-wooden-table-staining-issue-problem
<cmaloney> I'm sure we're just being critical of Apple
<cmaloney> That said, I'll be damned if I'm buying one of Apple's expensive speakers. :)
<jrwren> i'd get one, but it only works with subscription services which I don't use.
<Scary_Guy> I'd get one, but I'm insane https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a3MzOb5_700b.jpg
<cmaloney> Good morning
<waldo323_> good morning
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: that too!
<jrwren> by modern standards, I'm a ludite. I have no interest in smart home toys.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Same here
<cmaloney> I don't want that sort of stuff heading to the cloud
<rick_h> jrwren: you can't use your itunes library with it?
<jrwren> rick_h: afaik, no, you cannot.  You CAN use your itunes MATCH library, if you subscribe to that.
<rick_h> that sucks
<jrwren> yup.
<rick_h> I assumed all apple music stuff would play through it, like an airplay type thing
<jrwren> yes, you can use airplay, but that means no voice control, clicking in itunes until you find what you want and dedicating an app on a separate devices to playback via airplay.
<jrwren> wow, good discussion. This raises the question: can siri on a mac control itunes? could you get an old mac mini, load it up with a library and plug it into a nice stereo system to have poor mans voice control?
<jrwren> For that matter, can cortana on windows do the same thing?
<rick_h> it's what I do with chromecasts (w/o a mini/etc)
<rick_h> hook them up to speakers around the house and play what I can cast where I want it
<jrwren> with voice control?
<jrwren> I do that with just bluetooth in a couple locations around the house, but its always annoying to change the speaker target.
<jrwren> I'm thinking a tiny PC with full music library on it.
<rick_h> yea, at least with my phone I can ask google assistant to do it
<rick_h> "hey google, play imagine dragons in the office
<jrwren> oh! that is nice!
<cmaloney> That's cool
<jrwren> i do not think that I can do that. Maybe siri could if i had any functioning airplay devices?
<rick_h> maybe
<jrwren> but, I've now thought about this enough that I'm annoyed and frustrated by the artificial vendor walls. Back to doing nothing about it.
<rick_h> and then you can group them (but only the chromecast audio :( ) and so I've got one that's "house" so I can play across them all
<rick_h> yea, it's always so annoying...every time I want to listen to my audible book on my speakers around the house...fail
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's like we're re-creating broadcast silos yet again
<jrwren> broadcast! great idea! build 1W FM transmitter. Use that. :)
<cmaloney> Though I'd love to see how one of the assistants handles something like "Play Rollins"
<cmaloney> "Rollins Band? Henry Rollins Spoken Word? Sonny Rollins?"
<cmaloney> jrwren: 1000 W. I have a FCC license. :)
<jrwren> There is only 1 song that matches Rollins in my library, lol.
<jrwren> cmaloney: o_O  really?  what freq?
<cmaloney> Or some of these Cryillic band names
<rick_h> "sure, sunny rollins from google play music playing on office"
<rick_h> cmaloney: ^ your answer lol
<cmaloney> College radio back in the 1990s
<cmaloney> rick_h: Naturally. :)
<jrwren> yeah, something tells me no matter how many times I say three teeth, its not going to match 3teeth, and I'm not even sure how I'd get it to recognize Îamon
<cmaloney> <3 3TEETH
<jrwren> I bet it can't even "zandria" to Xandria
<cmaloney> Play Einshturshend... play Einstur mumble New baaat... Play "Halber Mensch"
<jrwren> I'd ask mac siri all of these things, but I have a great playlist playing I dont' want to interrupt :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahahaha.
<jrwren> eyensturzenday noybowten :)
<jrwren> OMG, our conversation about byobu and tmux last week, i just realized that if I switch to straight tmux and make my own pretty status bar I can use 256 colors and italics. bump it up in the todo a few notches ;)
<rick_h> hah
<cmaloney> See?
<cmaloney> I wonder if Dustin still uses Byobu TBH
<Scary_Guy> @Cmaloney, if it saves search history or can build a profile of what you might want based on previous number of searches it might know.  Still if you searched for all of them maybe it would freak out
<Scary_Guy> I love 3TEETH, see them at Small's constantly.  Last time they were in town they went there just to hang out.  I helped them out once with a video converter when they were in a bind and they never forgot that
<cmaloney> All three are in my collection so it would probably freak out. :)
<cmaloney> <3
<Scary_Guy> and I can attest they are the NICEST people ever
<Scary_Guy> https://mycroft.ai looks interesting too
<Scary_Guy> someone also mentioned Imagine Dragons.  I saw that on Reddit and didn't look too closely.  Now I'll have to look closer so thanks for that
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: 3teeth plays smalls constantly?  damn! i've missed out.
<Scary_Guy> not really the same at all, but I have The Gothsicles playing City Club this Saturday
<jrwren> zomg! hilarious
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs53c0q6kHg
<hpucks> byobu++
<Scary_Guy> that's a thing?  or do you just mean it's doublepluss good?
<cmaloney> Christ, having an opinion about how cryptocurrency is a complete waste of time can really bring out the "well actually" in folks.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i've lost friends.
<brousch> cmaloney: Don't you want to get rich quick?
<jrwren> ok, not really.
<jrwren> i've ignored acquaintences.
<brousch> Turn $10 of electricity into $3 of digital coins?
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/99530369408600196
<cmaloney> That's what promped this
<Scary_Guy> I think like most things a lucky few invested in it and actually did get rich quick.  many hype it up like some MLM scheme hoping to do the same.  and many more will lose out when the bubble bursts
<Scary_Guy> as long as you recognize that it is volatile it's fine.  treat it like gambling, don't invest more than you're willing to lose
<Scary_Guy> we had a pretty good discussion about the browser mining assholes in the 2600 IRC
<Scary_Guy> one guy thinks it's less of a problem than it is.  it would be really nice if people would dedicate that computing power to something like BOINC (is that still a thing?  I kinda stopped because mine is 10 years old and useless)
<Scary_Guy> neat, looks like it is
<cmaloney> The thing that bugs me the most about it is having an opinion that it's a waste of time and resources is somehow not permitted
<cmaloney> and worse, that folks find it profitable enough to do this shit on portable devices, laptops, etc is akin to someone arriving at my house with a backhoe and nibbling at my yard until they find something
<Scary_Guy> I mean, I do like it because digital money not tied to the credit card companies or banks.  there are some adblockers that will automatically block those sites/that activity too
<Scary_Guy> but as my friend in the other channel said the people wise enough to block that are the ones with computers powerful enough to actually do something
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I also don't want my parents to call me up complaining that their machine sounds like it's having a heart-attack
<brousch> I made decent money on crypto in 2017
<Scary_Guy> most technologically illiterate people don't have fast computers at all, and phones aren't anywhere near actual desktops yet
<Scary_Guy> especially dedicated miners
<brousch> You would need millions of phones mining to make anything
<Scary_Guy> the gaming community is super pissed off because miners keep on buying up all the latest greatest graphics cards too in bulk for their mining rigs
<cmaloney> brousch: I don't deny there's money to be made on it
<Scary_Guy> this is also raising the prices of said cards too.  at least some companies have a buying limit
<Scary_Guy> I do, so hopefully people will stop or slow down
<cmaloney> it just has the same icky feeling that I got from hydroponics, vape stores, and cell-phone repair
<cmaloney> in that there's legit uses but it's overrun with get-rich-quick dude-bros and douchebags
<brousch> What's wrong with hydroponics?!
<Scary_Guy> hell, do all the shady things.  diversification is smart after all :p
<brousch> http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-aerofarms-the-worlds-largest-vertical-farm-in-newark-2016-2
<cmaloney> brousch: When medical marijuana was a new thing in MI there were a glut of hydroponics stores
<Scary_Guy> hydro is great, I love how marijuana is making people cash.  I hate stoner culture though
<brousch> I think crypto is less legit than hydroponics
<cmaloney> My bro-in-law did hydro but he did it to grow veggies
<cmaloney> until a horde of wasps took up residence in his house. :)
<Scary_Guy> ouch
<brousch> I'm not sure it's more legit than gambling
<Scary_Guy> everything is a gamble.  still I wish I got into Bitcoin back in 2009 when I found out about it
<cmaloney> I have the same feelings about gambling, but that at least has govt. regulation to keep it in check
<brousch> Right
<cmaloney> one of the places I interviewed at had a really sweet espresso machine that they bought with crypto
<Scary_Guy> regulation doesn't really help.  people still lose their houses, the gov just wants a cut
<cmaloney> so I don't deny it has value
<brousch> Heh, the govt is getting about 28% of my crypto gains
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: I mean regs as in having a modicum of fairness to it
<Scary_Guy> if gambling was fair, there wouldn't be casinos :p
<Scary_Guy> house always wins, always
<cmaloney> Slot machines that have at least some level of fairness to them
<cmaloney> Oh I know
<Scary_Guy> and if it doesn't you're banned
<jrwren> BEES!!!!!!!!
<Scary_Guy> Oprah.gif
<jrwren> https://medium.com/@jayrwren/more-wasps-5ebbd66aca
<cmaloney> jrwren: Heh. :)
<cmaloney> My aunt sayst hat she had bees
<Scary_Guy> oh man, that douchebag cop photo is everywhere, best meme ever
<cmaloney> as well, but they were yellow jackets as well
<brousch> mining is annoying at home. Loud, hot, runs up the electric bill
<brousch> Better to farm it out to millions of people's phones and browsers
<Scary_Guy> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFJrcyBUMAE8eU0.jpg (bad language)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Now that I know how to subscribe to medium feeds I've subscribed.
<jrwren> cmaloney: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-16
<cmaloney> Good morning.
<jrwren> Good afternoon.
<cmaloney> Goodnight
<_stink_> good work!
<greg-g> solid day everyone.
<cmaloney> <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-12
<jlosito> cmaloney, is the michigan loco team is active?
<cmaloney> Define active? :)
<cmaloney> We have one gathering a year at Penguicon (which will hopefully be on the program for the 2020 Penguicon)
<jlosito> i see there's a redirect michigan.ubuntu-us.org to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-mi/
<jlosito> is this needed anymore?
<cmaloney> I didn't know it was there. Not sure if anyone uses that link.
<jlosito> from the access logs, i'm going to say no
<cmaloney> Honestly are any of the locos active anymore?
<jlosito> good point
<cmaloney> I'm looking at the loco directory for events and the only thing I'm seeing are for south america and a repeating event for Arizona
<jlosito> going back a couple of days of the access logs, i only see myself hitting michigan.ubuntu-us.org
<cmaloney> er, rather, Europe.
<cmaloney> So, um, I just realized it exists, and I'm not sure if anyone uses it. ;)
<jlosito> kk
<cmaloney> Thanks for checking though.
<jlosito> ty for responding
<cmaloney> np.
<jlosito> i have a bouncer, so i'll just sit in here for a couple of days just to see if anyone objects to the change
<cmaloney> no worries. I doubt there will be any objections.
<jrwren> but now we can use it!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-14
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> how's the day so far?
<jrwren> can it be ovr yet?
<cmaloney> Not yet.
<_stink_> cmaloney is the timekeeper
<cmaloney> I'm keeping your times
<_stink_> so how long do i have?
<cmaloney> until you no longer have any
<cmaloney> then you won't have anymore
 * _stink_ prepares for death
<cmaloney> heh
