#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-01
<asac> seb128: to take some load from pitti ... could you bin-NEW firefox-3.1?
<seb128> asac: pitti is travelling cross atlantic today
<seb128> asac: looking
<asac> oh . already to america ;)
<asac> seb128: are you in -sru team too?
<seb128> no
<asac> damn
<asac> ;)
<seb128> slangasek is though
<asac> let me check whoelse could help here
<asac> thanks
<seb128> asac: hum, firefox-3.1 to main or universe? and is that worth checking all the packaging or that just a version change over the previous one?
<asac> seb128: universe
<asac> seb128: the packaging is identical with the firefox-3.0 package
<seb128> asac: accepted
 * asac hugs seb128 
 * seb128 hugs asac
<asac> seb128: when will you travel?
<seb128> asac: thursday
<asac> is there a pre-sprint where pitti is travelling to? or is he doing a few days holidays in california up-front?
<seb128> he's going to the desktop experience sprint which is happening before
<asac> ah
<seb128> I was invited there too but ETOOMUCHTODO
<asac> in MV ... or lexington?
<seb128> they said porland I think
<asac> oh ;)
<asac> half of the server team can contribute then ;)
<seb128> not sure if that's a good thing ;-)
<asac> i am actually a bit scared by the desktop experience team ;)
<seb128> I'm not sure server team and desktop experience have the same desktop visions ;-)
<seb128> right, but I would be scared by the server team designing the desktop too
<asac> i have the feeling that they work on impossible firefox stuff ... wasting there time without talking to me ;)
<asac> s/there/their/
<seb128> well, pitti go there to give them input from the desktop team side
<seb128> I think he usually has a clue about what is reasonable or not so no worry
<seb128> he just has to stand his ground ;-)
<seb128> or rather not be impressed by all the crack ;-)
 * pochu waves
<pitti> asac: yes, I'll join the desktop experience sprint this week
<asac> pitti: ah ;) ... arrived?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-02
<vuntz> hi there
<vuntz> anybody using gnome-web-photo?
<seb128> hey vuntz
<seb128> not me
<seb128> why?
 * vuntz needs a patch to be tried on a non-openSUSE distro :-)
<vuntz> oh, I forgot virtualbox. I can just do it
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> vuntz: how is opensuse 11 going?
<seb128> vuntz: didn't get too much complain about session storing being broken? ;-)
<vuntz> going fine
<vuntz> nope
<vuntz> but well, it's not released yet, so we might get more comments about this
<seb128> when will it be stable?
<vuntz> seb128: I think the release is on December 11th
<vuntz> but we're almost frozen now
<seb128> good luck for the extra bug fixing then ;-)
<vuntz> thanks!
<vuntz> seb128: hope you'll have fun at the googleplex :-)
 * mvo fondly remembers the tea there
 * mvo reboots
<Lancao> hi
<Lancao> Desktop team, anyone there?
<Lancao> hello, how come no body answer?
<pochu> because you didn't ask a non-obvious question :)
<calc> Lancao: just because we are here doesn't necessarily mean we will be able to answer your real question :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-03
<maxb> I have a rather peculiar problem, for which I'm looking for debugging hints. During login, *intermittently*, Ubuntu plays the login sound from the default sound scheme, not my configured one.
<maxb> I am conjecturing some sort of race condition starting up my user's gconfd, possibly?
<Burgundavia> maxb: likely something like that. I would file a bug against gnome-session and let it get moved from there
<jeswhy> ?
<crevette> hey seb128, di dyou try the gvfs 1.1.1 update on ftp, I had some trouble connecting to a FTP after.
<crevette> I didn't had time to investigate further
<seb128> crevette: no, I'm not using ftp over nautilus, I usually use only ftp.gnome.org in my webbrowser
<crevette> okay
<seb128> crevette: bugs should go upstream anyway we don't patch the code
<crevette> yeah okay
<crevette> it was to ack that with you
<crevette> I was using an authenticated FTP for me
<seb128> already running jaunty? ;-)
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> development version runs most of the time without a hitch
<seb128> right
<crevette> my argument to keep intrepid would have to try to improve bluetooth, but I failed with my little time
<crevette> so I decided to move on
<seb128> do you have any clue about this nautilus-sendto bug btw?
<crevette> perhaps, I assume nautilus-sendto is too picky when it trie to detect phone capabilities
<crevette> I did a patch where I remove the detection code, but I didn't had time to test it
<seb128> crevette: did you talk to bastien about that?
<crevette> yep
<seb128> or sent the bug upstream?
<seb128> and?
<crevette> he taold to me to test on my own
<crevette> :)
<crevette> my phone works perfectly with nautilus-sendto
<crevette> I wonder If I package nautilus-sentdo with the patch
<crevette> let me see
<crevette> I didn't want to open the bug upstream without some valuable tests (that I failed to do)
<seb128> I would try but I've no bluetooth device
<crevette> you don't a phone with bluetooth I think
<crevette> ah true
<crevette> the nautilus-sendto patched version is on my ppa
<seb128> do you get the bug using the non patched version?
<crevette> I asked soem people to test on bug report but I didn't have feedback
<crevette> bluetooth bugs are a little bit confusing because people mix problem butween sending / reception / hardware / software problem :)
<crevette> let me see
<crevette> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/nautilus-sendto/+bug/282325
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 282325 in nautilus-sendto "nautilus-sendto doesn't support Obex Push file transfer anymore" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<crevette> seems a good candidate
<seb128> right, I get the bug mails for nautilus-sendto
<crevette> seb128, I can had a comment requesting to test my package if you want
<crevette> add
<seb128> would be nice
<crevette> I thought I did it
<crevette> okay
<seb128> the current comment states that obexftp and the applet work correctly
<seb128> so it would indicate a nautilus-sendto issue rather than an obex or hardware one
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> comment added
<seb128> thanks
<crevette> don't hesitate to ping me if you need help
<crevette> I don't know really the bluez code, but I can perhaps help you for nautilus-sendto and gnome-user-sahre
<crevette> share
<crevette> wow, 10:40 already, and I didn't do lot of things this morning
<seb128> crevette: you are welcome to work on those packages, look at bugs and do updates it you want ;-)
<seb128> crevette: nautilus-sendto not working on bluetooth in intrepid seems to be a frequent user complain so get this bug fixed would be nice
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> :/
<crevette> I'm very sorry to not be able to take some lead there
<crevette> there is no really bluetooth team
<crevette> I should contact other bluetooth related uploader to have a status
<crevette> but fact is bluez state is not at the level what we should expect
<seb128> right
<crevette> seb128, for gnome-user-share, the most common problem I seen is that the version of obex-data-server that ubuntu ships is broken,
<seb128> crevette: what is broken? you can update it ;-)
<crevette> I've uploaded a package on my ppa, and some people provided me a good feedback, but uploading to such version needs some paperwork I don't have time/don't want to do
<seb128> you could do the jaunty update
<crevette> because the changes are too important
<seb128> it doesn't require paper work, just sponsoring
<crevette> okay
<crevette> I'll do that tonight
<crevette> I'ma lacker I know
<crevette> slacker
<crevette> I'm proud of it :/
<seb128> you mean that you need some good kicking? ;-)
 * seb128 kicks crevette
<seb128> better now? ;-)
<crevette> and some free time too
<crevette> :)
<crevette> once I have feedback on nautilus-sendto I can do the packaging or do it if you want
<crevette> or can
<seb128> you do it
<crevette> I'll opena the bug too and create the upstream bug
<crevette> I've some code for a ubuntu bug that I opened upstream to have last used device first of the list
<seb128> cool, thanks
<crevette> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/254947
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 254947 in gnome-bluetooth "Save the last device when send file" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> upstream is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546571
<ubottu> Gnome bug 546571 in general "[bluetooth] Use last used device by default" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<crevette> hmm my patch has mixes space/tab
<crevette> seb128, is there canonical person working on bluetooth, or people are just volunteers ? I'm always lost to know who is from cano team
<crevette> I'm just asking that because I understood that bluetooth was a key functionality that Mark wanted to promote
<seb128> crevette: nobody really assigned to it from canonical that I know about
<crevette> okay
<seb128> crevette: tseliot worked on the bluetooth changes in intrepid I think, you can always ping him if you have a question about those
<crevette> okay
<seb128> crevette: or superm1 rather
<crevette> yeah I know superm1
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> huats_: hey, I've sponsored the gucharmap upload
<huats_> seb128: hey
<huats_> yeah I've seen that
<huats_> thanks :)
<huats_> I am starting again to work a bit :)
<huats_> (I mean on ubuntu :))
<huats_> seb128: ready for tomorrow ?
<seb128> huats_: not really yet
<seb128> huats_: when do you travel?
<huats_> sunday
<huats_> seb128:  it leaves me a few extra days :)
<seb128> right
<huats_> which will be really appreciated :)
<huats_> so many stuffs to do :)
<seb128> you will probably be jetlaged for uds ;-)
<huats_> that is very likely...
<seb128> well, that's the easy side travelling no?
<seb128> you just have to stay awake some extra hours
<crevette> huats_, ah you're going to UDS
<huats_> crevette: yep
<huats_> hello btw
<huats_> :)
<huats_> how are you ?
<crevette> fine
<crevette> little bit busy
<seb128> crevette: did you find a new job btw?
<crevette> no
<seb128> or are you still at your old one?
<crevette> yep
<crevette> only SSIIs propose jobs :/
<crevette> and after few interview, I can't stand them
<seb128> depending of what you are looking for exactly
<crevette> Looking for system administration on Linux/unix world preferably
<crevette> for support and integration
<huats_> crevette:  only near your place or are you willing to move ?
<crevette> near my place for a moment I think
<huats_> ok
<crevette> but who knows
<huats_> I won't be of great help than I think...
<crevette> I used to work on production, with lots of servers running :)
<crevette> this is my environment at the moment :)
<crevette> huats_, what are you going to participate to at UDS ?
<huats_> crevette: community manily
<huats_> mainly
<crevette> seems some gvfsd-* modules don't work, at least dav and ftp
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-04
<maco> hi, anyone around up for a discussion about dealing with the notification area and the HIG?
<maco> the gnome hig, that is
<Hobbsee> bit too early for that, i'd expect
<Hobbsee> you'd need to wait for most of europe to wake up
<Hobbsee> unless they've already left for SF, in which case, they're at dinner
<maco> haha no, i'm not going to UDS
<maco> oh *they*
<maco> heh i read "you've"
<maco> thatd be pretty early to go but i guess if you want to site-see...
<awalton__> think some of them have meatspace meetings this week
<awalton__> and then there's fosscamp friday
<awalton__> *sunday
<dobey> fosscamp is fri/sat
<dobey> nothing is sun
<awalton__> my bad, saturday
<dobey> and uds is mon-fri next week
 * awalton__ is sleepy.
<awalton__> dobey, are you going to uds?
<Hobbsee> maco: yes, they :)
<Hobbsee> they're arriving there sometime today, to do fosscamp tomorrow
<dobey> awalton__: yes, i am flying out tomorrow
<Hobbsee> hm, it's wednesdya there.
<maco> ah i forgot about fosscamp
<awalton__> dobey, ah good. it'll be nice to put faces to names with everyone...
<maco> crimsun's leaving friday and visiting someone in SF for the weekend before going over to uds
 * Hobbsee leaves on sunday
<awalton__> sunday night for me too.
<chrisccoulson> ping pitti - do you know what happened here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencryptoki/2.2.6+dfsg-1ubuntu1/+build/797215 ?
<Goodi> ehlo
<Hobbsee> chrisccoulson: throwing it back, in the hope ti works the second time
<chrisccoulson> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> looks like there are multiple lots of that
<chrisccoulson> i think it got copied from intrepid-proposed to intrepid-updates before the sparc build finished
<chrisccoulson> could that be the cause?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-05
<Hobbsee> quite possibly
<Hobbsee> that seems a likely problem
<chrisccoulson> Hobbsee: thanks, it seems to have worked this time
<Hobbsee> chrisccoulson: yes, seems so.
 * Hobbsee has poked 3 now
<crevette> salut huats
<huats> hello crevette
<didrocks> plop crevette & huats
<huats> plop didrocks !
<didrocks> (non, je suis au boulot depuis 8h tt de mÃªme, pas 11h ;))
<crevette> salut didrocks
<crevette> frenchies ftw on ubuntu
<didrocks> :)
<crevette> hey seb128 \./
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> you 're now on the other side of the ocean ?
<seb128> rather on an ocean which is not in europe ;-)
<crevette> ah true this is california, I thought in was in NY city
 * crevette would like to spend fe weeks of vacation there
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-06
<ottoshmidt_> is it not a help-support channel?
<pochu> ottoshmidt_: nope
<ottoshmidt_> a testing one for developers?
<pochu> ottoshmidt_: what do you mean?
<pochu> ottoshmidt_: there's #ubuntu-motu for packaging questions and to get involved with Ubuntu development, if that's what you're looking for
<ottoshmidt_> actually, what is this channel about?
<pochu> ottoshmidt_: about the Ubuntu desktop development
<ottoshmidt_> pochu, ok thanks
<pochu> that involves packaging new version of packages, development discussion, etc
<pochu> ottoshmidt_: you're welcome
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-07
<RainCT> Guys, what would you think about a "rotate wallpaper" otion in the appearance window?
 * RainCT is bored and ponders doing something from your TODO :P
<qzip> ï»¿good evening
<qzip> i have a problem with pppoe-connection: it breaks after some time of working
<qzip> tried to install via pppoeconf and nm-applet both
<qzip> can you help me please?
<walters> hey, wondering if you guys had done anything WRT the dbus update yet
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-30
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - not that i'm aware of
<chrisccoulson> i'd be more concerned about why it's using so much RAM though
<hyperair> hmm, i wonder
<hyperair> might be related to the stuff i had in the calendar
<hyperair> but it seems that after a while the ram usage just naturally rises >_>
<chrisccoulson> possibly. e-d-s only uses 9MB here, and i have a gmail account with ~60000 mails, and several calendars
<hyperair> @_@
<hyperair> i gave up using evolution, mainly because i just don't agree with its behaviour
<hyperair> when i open a new window, it spends a crapload of time re-loading every bloody thing in a new process
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i find quite a few things in evolution annoying
<hyperair> when loading, it spends a crapload of time talking to a bunch of stuff over the network prior to actually showing me a bloody gui
<hyperair> and if you've got a slow network....
<hyperair> evolution is hell.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a pain
<hyperair> there's no other word for it
<hyperair> =.=
<kklimonda> and interface sucks ;)
<hyperair> i mean geez, didn't the evolution devels ever realize that hey, network is slow and unreliable and maybe a program shouldn't rely so much on it to just _start_?!
<hyperair> i don't mind the interface so much
<hyperair> i do mind memory leaks
<hyperair> and i do mind hanging
<kklimonda> I can never make myself use Evo for a long time so memory leaks aren't really a problem :)
<hyperair> or completely not starting up because it's waiting for input from some remote server for hours on end that won't reply because it really timed out
<hyperair> kklimonda: even if you cloes evo, e-d-s runs.
<hyperair> kklimonda: e-d-s starts up when you open gnome-panel's clock
<hyperair> kklimonda: e-d-s also starts up when you start pidgin
<kklimonda> true
<hyperair> and e-d-s is the one leaking memory like a sieve
<hyperair> hmm. i think i'll just get rid of evolution-data-server.
<hyperair> yes
<hyperair> i remember it used to remove ubuntu-desktop with it, but it seems it doesn't anymore
<hyperair> good.
<hyperair> i'll just have to sacrifice ekiga and tasque >_>
<hyperair> i don't even use the e-d-s component of tasque, so why does it depend on e-d-s?
<kklimonda> it only recommends it
<hyperair> no, it depends
<hyperair> otherwise it wouldn't be going out with e-d-s
<hyperair> no wait
<hyperair> it depends on libevo-cil
<hyperair> which depends on e-d-s
<kklimonda> even better - libevo-cil depends on evo which depends on e-d-s
<hyperair> er no, it depends on evo itself, which depends on e-d-s
<hyperair> heh
<kklimonda> so what's the point of recommending e-d-s..
<hyperair> indeed
<hyperair> oh well
<hyperair> i don't use tasque much anyway, but i'll try doing something about libevo-cil sometime
<emma> I'm installing ubuntu-desktop from the lucid repositories, is this a way to get 10.4 running?
<emma> I noticed that ubuntu desktop depends on some erlang stuff. What is the erlang doing?
<jmarsden> emma: You should probably ask in #ubuntu+1 for anything Lucid related
<emma> oh okay sure.
<emma> jmarsden: do you know what the erlang is being used for? That's always seemed like a somewhat esoteric language?
<jmarsden> emma: No; use of Erlang is interesting... you might be able to figure out what uses it by checking the Depends: of each package in Ubuntu Desktop looking for it there?
<jmarsden> Or if you have a working Lucid machine, try apt-cache rdepends erlang   inside that machine.
<emma> cool that's what I'll do :)
<robert_ancell> erlang is required for desktop couchdb
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti o/
<pitti> bonjour didrocks! did you have a good weekend and first advent?
<didrocks> pitti: yes, very tiring though: we had our Ubuntu Party in Paris :)
<didrocks> pitti: you?
<pitti> wonderful; we made tons of cookies, and my wife and I made christmas calendars for each other
<didrocks> you don't have weight issue, so you can eat as much chocolate as you want :) Cooking week-end is great, yeah \o/
<vuntz> pitti: hmm, christmas calendars! That's a great idea!
<pitti> http://www.piware.de/2009/11/nicht-mehr-aufzuhalten-weihnachten/ :)
<vuntz> nice!
<vuntz> heh, I love how the 24th one is bigger
<didrocks> pitti: sweet :)
<baptistemm> good morning
<seb128> hello there
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey seb128
<didrocks> hi baptistemm
<seb128> lut baptistemm didrocks
<mpt> mvo, hi, sorry if you've explained this to me before, but what's the difference in Synaptic between "Removal" and "Complete Removal"?
<pitti> mpt: in the former case, files in /etc ("conffiles") stay around
<pitti> the latter is "purge" and also removes conffiles, log files, etc.
<mpt> thanks pitti
<mpt> pitti, so the former case is for if you think you might want to reinstall it again later?
<mpt> and you spent some time setting it up
<mvo> mpt: correct
<mpt> ok
<mvo> mpt: for some package a purge sometimes removes user added data too
<mpt> mvo, as in, deletes stuff from people's home folders?
<mvo> mpt: not only config, a database that got created in /var for example
<mvo> mpt: no, never in /home
<mpt> I see
<mvo> mpt: but system-wide data
<mvo> purge is always a bit risky and generally there is not that much data that is left on the system
<mpt> mvo, is it possible to purge a package after removing it normally? i.e. does apt know that the package was installed previously and has been removed but not purged?
<mvo> mpt: yes, you can look into synaptic and check the "Not installed (residual config) section
<mpt> oh, that's what that means
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti> hey seb128, had a nice weekend?
<seb128> very relaxing thanks
<seb128> recovering from some ubuflu still
<seb128> what about you?
<pitti> ugh, you got ubuflu?
<pitti> seb128: we baked tons of christmas cookies, and a gingerbread house
<mvo> seb128: oh :(
<mvo> seb128: poor you :(
<mvo> seb128: the same flu that I got?
<seb128> mvo, no, coughing and sneezing
<seb128> and filing a bit tired
<seb128> but nothing really strong
<mvo> ok, good
<seb128> I spent the weekend playing with my new gadgets and watching tv
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> nice!
<seb128> which was good anyway since it's raining outside...
<seb128> pitti, cookies! nice ;-)
<seb128> we try to not start before december there *g*
<seb128> too much food
<seb128> sprint, uds, end of year holidays coming
<seb128> I need at least a 2 weeks diet ;-)
<seb128> pitti, bug #489791 do you know what information is required?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489791 in cups "Compilation fails because of changed interface in libpoppler" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489791
<seb128> it's a pretty obvious "libpoppler abi changed, cups needs rebuild"
<seb128> rebuild + code change
<pitti>  /url 1
<seb128> pitti, note that pdftopdf crashes on undefined symbol too
<seb128> ie no printing working in lucid right now
<pitti> seb128: I don't see a reason for it to be "incomplete"; should be reproducible just fine
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> I will reopen then
<pitti> I set it to triaged and assigned to till
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<Laney> libpoppler is knackered anyway
<Laney> debian bug 558463
<ubottu> Debian bug 558463 in poppler "cups: Cups fails to print after upgrade" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/558463
<seb128> Laney, what do you mean?
<seb128> Laney, they just changed the abi again
<seb128> they don't have abi stability for libpoppler
<seb128> they do the glib version though
<seb128> it's nothing new
<Laney> no, I mean it's broken anyway :)
<czajkowski> mpt: *ping*
<Laney> unless you mean that debian needs to rebuild cups against this
<seb128> Laney, it's not broken, it's the same issue I pointed before
<seb128> the abi changed and the lib customers need a rebuild
<Laney> hm
<pitti> hm, without a soname bump?
<seb128> pitti, right, they don't want to give stability to libpoppler
<seb128> they only do for the glib and qt versions
<seb128> they consider that's what applications should be using
<seb128> too much constrains to do it for libpoppler itself apparently...
<seb128> I don't say I agree though
<seb128> but that's what I've been replied in previous cycles
<pitti> ok, thanks
<mac_v> seb128: hi.. i thought you and pitti had an idea how to solve the .txt behavior from vfat drives... i vaguely remembered you saying you'd work on it if you have time...  if not ... nvm  :)
<seb128> mac_v, you should have noted it, it's possible but I've hundred of ideas every week and forgot about most of those ;-)
<seb128> I've neither interest to work on this issue nor time for it
<mac_v> seb128: hmm , let me find the -desktop logs... ;)
<mac_v> seb128: ah ok :)
<seb128> to be honest I don't think I will have any time for hundredpapercut this cycle
<seb128> I'm back to do GNOME without robert_ancell this cycle
<seb128> and we have to tackle boot speed issues
<mac_v> yeah , too bad they left you alone :(
<seb128> which are already higher workload that reasonable
<seb128> oh, come one
<seb128> I start hating this hundredpapercut project, zillion of useless bugs opened
<asac> hehe
<asac> seb128: dejavu from last cycle? ... i remember you constantly complaining back then ;)
<seb128> hey asac
<seb128> yes, those bug are bottom level quality
<seb128> no information about ubuntu version, package version, no clear description
<seb128> and most are random funky requests of softwares not making your coffee and not putting the number of sugars you want in there
<asac> "bottom level quality" - nice categorization ;)
<asac> yeah
<asac> i think strictly speaking its dxteam responsibility to monitor and do patches for them ;)
<asac> well ... we can forward upstream of course :)
<seb128> excepted that they don't
<seb128> typical example: bug #488129
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488129 in nautilus "Nautilus usability" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488129
<pitti> this is like 10 reports in one, and certainly not a papercut
<seb128> right, I'm closing it now
<seb128> got a zillion hundredpapercut bugs spamming my box this weekend
<seb128> the average quality of those is just ridiculous
<and471> mvo: the notebook page is used because of the range(5) declarations at the start of the relative python files
<and471> mvo, those numbers are used to change the notebook page and so I need to notebook page as the separator takes up a number
<and471> mvo, otherwise the viewswitcher parts are not connected correctly to their relative page
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks; and full of christmas cookies and "Stollen"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i love stollen :)
<pitti> so do I :)
<chrisccoulson> we have a german market here throughout december, and i always stock up just before christmas
<Laney> Birmingham? Apparently it's getting close to the side of the KÃ¶ln one
<chrisccoulson> Laney - yeah, Birmingham
<Laney> nice
<chrisccoulson> i go to birmingham city centre twice per year - once for an eye test and once for the christmas market
<Laney> we have one in Nottingham too, but I reckon it's quite small
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> good thanks
<seb128> what about you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad. i did some hacking in gnome-session over the weekend to try and make it load faster
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> did you manage to find any issue or thing we could do better?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - from what i saw here, the biggest amount of time is wasted reading gconf keys, and the first read always seems to take ages, regardless of how late you do it.
<chrisccoulson> so i made some changes which avoid reading any gconf keys until later on in the session
<chrisccoulson> and some other stuff which avoid doing things which waste time (eg, querying the session type from consolekit when there is no saved session to restore from etc)
<seb128> wasn't the "read the gconf keys early" a change in the recent cycles for optimization?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it takes nearly 600ms to read the gconf keys on my virtualbox install
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: hrm
<seb128> gconf is slow...
<chrisccoulson> hi vuntz
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: why would reading the gconf keys be slow?
<seb128> I'm not sure it will be faster doing it in several calls later
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i'm not sure, but it seems to just take ages
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: if it's because it's the first thing to read in gconf, then not doing it in gnome-session means that g-s-d will be impacted
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: (which just moves the issue)
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - thats not so much of a problem. the issue is with it happening in gnome-session, is that it delays the whole session from starting
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: g-s-d will also delay the whole session
<vuntz> since g-s will block on it
<vuntz> :-)
<chrisccoulson> possibly. i will try various things to see if i can speed it up though, as it takes far too long :(
<chrisccoulson> i think our whole budget is 4 seconds isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128^^
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: avoiding the CK call is good, though. How much do we win with this?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right
<seb128> vuntz, I'm thinking about dropping the wait for g-s-d to be done to start other things, etc
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - the consolekit call is fairly insignificant, but i'm just trying to save time whereever i can spot something which wastes it
<seb128> it just slow down the login time
<seb128> or we need to make things register much earlier and get gnome-session moving
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - would you mind trying my build of gnome-session in a bit?
<chrisccoulson> i'm just re-testing it to make sure it doesn't crash ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I would be happy to test your changes ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: oh, it should certainly not wait for all modules to be done before telling gnome-session is ready
<vuntz> seb128: there are "mandatory modules" and the ones that can be set later
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - the other thing which seemed to take a while on my VBox install was creating the DkpClient object. so i made a change to only create that when it's needed
<chrisccoulson> that took nearly 100ms
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: oh, that's probably because it starts DK-power
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: that's a good one, indeed
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - yeah, possibly. it's better if that's started later in the session really
<seb128> vuntz, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-2.png is current gnome-session
<seb128> see the delay between the session bar and the things starting there
<seb128> vuntz, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-8.png is gnome-session starting everything
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i will probably put all my findings on a wiki page somewhere shortly, which will detail where all the time seems to be going
<seb128> chrisccoulson, feel free to use the spec page for those notes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<seb128> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/StartupSpeed
 * vuntz would recommend a page on live.gnome.org if you want to get upstream involved...
<vuntz> seb128: what do you mean with "gnome-session starting everything" ?
<seb128> vuntz, I moved everything to the application stage
<seb128> and cleaned the required component list
<seb128> and copy autostart for gnome-panel, nautilus, compioz
<seb128> compiz
<seb128> just to see what difference it would make
<vuntz> it's a bit surprising that gnome-panel is really busy at the beginning for one and not for the other
<seb128> I don't say it's what we need to do
<seb128> some of the things might be blocking on gvfs to be started, etc
<seb128> like in the first case they are ready before gnome-panel but not in the second case
<seb128> lunch time there
<seb128> bbl
 * mpt wonders what "A text tool utiliy" is supposed to be
<mpt> mvo, what was that separator and471 was talking about?
<mvo> mpt: I send him a mail about this, I'm not sure what purpose it serves
<mvo> mpt: there is also a change that makes the view list a tree with just one sub-element, I think we need to wait with that until we actaully have more than one sub-element
<mpt> mvo, what do you mean by "with just one sub-element"?
<mvo> mpt: a treeview with "Get software" as root and "Free software" as child
<mpt> mvo, ah, probably he's looking at the 4.0 mockup. :-) I do want that for 2.0, though I haven't specced it yet
<mpt> mvo, I agree it doesn't make sense to have it until we're showing packages from arbitrary repositories
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've put my gnome-session work here for you to try: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/gnome-session-startup-time/
<chrisccoulson> it might be worth testing it with the default phased startup first, as i've not tried it with your configuration
<chrisccoulson> the changelog is quite detailed too, and explains what i changed
<mpt> mvo, so the first big tasks are (1) showing non-app packages, (2) showing packages from all your enabled repositories (maybe that follows automatically), and (3) showing those repositories separately in the navigation pane
<chrisccoulson> hopefully it makes things a little quicker
<mvo> mpt: (1) and (2) are will be the same code, (3) is new to me, was that discussed and I missed it (other than in the 4.0 mockup)?
<mpt> mvo, not yet -- maybe we can discuss prioritization of new interface bits this afternoon
<mvo> mpt: ok, we need to add work items for them too (and put them somewhere) so that the tasks show up in the burndown chart
<mpt> mvo, you mean an overall Foundations burndown chart?
<mvo> mpt: yes, or my personal one. it needs to appear somewhere so that time can be budget for it
<mpt> yes
<mvo> mpt: adding a repository in the navigation is not trivial as it needs backend db integration
<mpt> ok
<mpt> I guess that means budgeting time for fixing particular bugs too
<mvo> mpt: I thnk that depends on the bugs, if its requires code rework, then yes, otherwise I think we can just fix them when we reach the deadline for feature additions
<mvo> mpt: do you have particular ones in mind?
<mpt> mvo, not yet :-)
<mvo> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok thanks
<baptistemm> one question, will 2.28.* updates will continue to be pushed to karmic ?
<seb128> baptistemm, depends of the update
<seb128> if it has interesting fixes yes
<seb128> otherwise no
<baptistemm> and If I do packages, can they be reviewed?
<seb128> baptistemm, sure, which one do you want to do?
<baptistemm> I need to check which one are to do. I just wanted to know; because I know you're now focused on Lucid
<seb128> we are
<seb128> you are welcome to help on lucid too though
<baptistemm> hmm, yeah I did the fontconfig 2.7.3 packaging but I'm not happy with, it crashes during the upgrade all gtk+ apps
<baptistemm> it seems this is solved in 2.8.0
<baptistemm> I'll propose it tonigh once I tested
<baptistemm> I can do the nautilus + gvfs update on karmic if they fit in my free time
<baptistemm> I need to stick with a stable version snow as I use ubuntu for real work :)
<baptistemm> fontconfig 2.7.x is not proposed on http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html but on http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html
<pitti> seb128: would you have a minute today to review https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-suspend-quirks-halsectomy ?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, is there any webpage listing specs waiting for a review?
<seb128> the blueprint emails are in the middle of the launchpad bug noise there
<seb128> I need filter for those too I guess
<pitti> seb128: try https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/people/+me/+specs?role=approver
<seb128> danke
<pitti> then sort by "Design"
<seb128> "Review" need approval too right?
<seb128> I'm not sure what is the difference between review and pending approval there
<seb128> I guess it's launchpad granularity being higher than what we use?
<didrocks> seb128: I was just asking myself the exact same question :)
<didrocks> (about difference between review and needs approval)
<mpt> mvo, I've updated the department+section algorithm to use just "Category:" and "X-Ubuntu-Category:". https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=249&rev1=247
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Genre
<seb128_> mpt, what is X-Ubuntu-Category?
<mpt> seb128_, it's a way of overriding Category: in .desktop files so that a package appears somewhere else in the Ubuntu Software Center
<seb128> mpt, do you consider there are cases where upstream and package categories might be different?
<seb128> or is that just a workaround to avoid having fixing broken category use?
<seb128> either way could you document in the wikipage?
<mpt> seb128, we might discover a need for a subcategory that isn't in the menu spec, and we need to use it before the maintainer updates the spec.
<mpt> seb128, I think (though I'm not sure) that another use of it will be for non-application software that should be categorized in the Center, but shouldn't show up in the Applications menu.
<seb128> I would suggest it's not the right way to deal with those issues
<mpt> seb128, what do you suggest?
<seb128> we should rather being proactive fixing spec issues than adding an extra layer as an excuse to no push for the correct changes
<seb128> not sure what I would suggest, I just want to be carreful to not create yet another situation where we are categorized as bad citizen by upstream because we do hacks rather than trying to fix issues correctly
<seb128> if there is a valid need for that new key good
<mpt> seb128, it's not an excuse. It's the same basic approach used in CSS, and RFC(2)822, and HTML5
<seb128> but if that's just because it's easier to change a new key than fix the existant one I would suggest that pushing for the real fix benefits everybody
<seb128> I've no clue about either of those or about web coding ;-)
<mpt> Part of knowing whether a new key is a good idea is implementation experience
<seb128> well we could use the existant Categories key and tweak the known categories for that
<mpt> seb128, sorry, I don't know what you mean by "known" in that sense
<seb128> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html
<seb128> it has a list of official categories
<mpt> seb128, yes, I linked to that exact list from the SoftwareCenter spec
<seb128> known = those listed there
<seb128> we could add tweaks to this list and implement the changes in our gnome-menus
<seb128> if we figure we need some extra categories
<mvo> one problem with adding our own categories is that we need to be careful with regard to i18n
<mpt> seb128, if we did that we might use a new category name in a different way from how it was eventually standardized, and then we'd be in a mess.
<seb128> I don't understand why using the fdo categories wouldn't work correctly?
<seb128> or why we couldn't tweak those in a way which works
<mpt> seb128, for the two reasons I gave ten minutes ago
<mpt> seb128, for example, where is the fdo category for IDEs? There isn't one. What if we realize we need an "IDEs" subsection in the "Developer Tools" department?
<mclasen> mpt: there is no risk of that, because your private categories start with X- while standardized ones don't
<seb128> the new category one is not a valid reason, we could as easily modify the current key than make a new one work
<mpt> seb128, so we propose an "IDEs" Category to fdo, and they argue for a few months about whether that's really just a variety of TextEditors, and meanwhile we're stuck
<seb128> no
<seb128> we use a X-Ubuntu-IDE meanwhile
<mpt> oh, I see
<mpt> So instead of "X-Ubuntu-Category: IDE", we have "Category: X-Ubuntu-IDE"
<seb128> yes
<mvo> mpt: let me read through the new algorithm, but it still strikes me as overly complicated
<mpt> seb128, ok, that works for me
<seb128> good ;-)
<mpt> and that makes the algorithm a bit simpler too I think
<seb128> excellent
<mvo> mpt: I think seb128 is right, one key makes everything simpler
<mpt> I didn't know there were X-Y-Z Category *values*
<mvo> mpt: and the exact location can be a comination of "and" and "or". e.g. "Sound & Video": "AudioVideo AND Audio AND Video"
<mvo> mpt: Science/Mathematics: "DataVisualization OR Math OR NumericalAnalysis"
<mvo> mpt: (forget the AND in audio & video, that should be a OR)
<mpt> I guessed that :-)
<mpt> mvo, ok -- all the commas in my table are ORs, but I can make that explicit
<mvo> mpt: that should be fine
<mvo> mpt: I figure the "," means "OR"
<mvo> mpt: I don't understand (5) - "# Use âTech Stuffâ as the primary department, with no primary subsection. "
<mvo> mpt: does that mean there is some tech stuff that has a sub-section and some that does not ?
<mvo> mpt: when I asked about this at UDS you said it will be "tech stuff", "sub-section", "packages"
<mpt> mvo, as written in the version you're reading, "Tech Stuff" as no subsections
<mvo> mpt: does that mean we have "tech stuff", "some packages" and "sub-section" with "more packages" ?
<mvo> mpt: aha, so its just one flat long list
<mvo> mpt: that fine then
<mpt> mvo, for the first iteration, yes
<mpt> then we start working out how to extract particular types of package
<mpt> (without using debtags, alas)
<mvo> mpt: please upate trunk, that should give you a first cut of this
<mpt> oh cool
<mpt> mvo, all departments that have subsections probably will have some items that are not in any subsection
<mvo> its still a bit buggy and no de-duplication, but you get a idea
<mvo> mpt: hm, so the UI needs to be split into "sub-section" and "apps that are under this section but have no sub-section"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you broke my GNOME!
<mvo> mpt: sounds like the equivalent of a "other" sub-section to me, just without the explicit label
<mpt> mvo, yes, that's the next thing I need to update in the spec, the department screen
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I only get a spinning cursor with your gnome-session changes
<mpt> mvo, exactly
<mvo> mpt: why not use other than?
<mpt> mvo, because there's no point -- no-one would want to explicitly go into a subsection labelled "Other"
<mvo> mpt: that means the UI needs to be different for categories with item and subsections and categories with sub-sections but no items?
<mvo> mpt: or will all categories with sub-sections also have items that are not part of those sub-sections?
<mpt> mvo, no, I think it will be two-pane in either case
<mvo> ok
<fagan> rickspencer3: ping
<rickspencer3> hi fagan
<fagan> I hear on the grapevine that F-Spot's viewer is after being fixed
<fagan> Is it too late to talk about getting rid of EOG too?
 * fagan wants a bit of streamlining
<rickspencer3> fagan, let's see how it goes with f-spot
<rickspencer3> if it truly works just as well as eog for viewing photos, perhaps it won't be necessary
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<rickspencer3> hi pitti, good morning
<fagan> rickspencer3: cool just thought I should ask
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
 * pitti hands rickspencer3 a christmas cookie
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<seb128> had a good thanks giving weekend?
 * rickspencer3 *munch* *munch* *munch*
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes, it was quite nice
 * kenvandine ate way too much :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<fagan> hmmm Ireland doesnt have thanksgiving :(
<czajkowski> fagan: but we do have a 10 day christmas and new years eve eating festival
<rickspencer3> lots of tasty email to go go through this morning too
<fagan> czajkowski: true
 * seb128 is somewhat glad to have a food diet between sprint, uds and december
<rickspencer3> there is no way I can review all that bug mail
<rickspencer3> any specific ones I should be aware of
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> tseliot, hello and welcome to the desktop team :) !
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - hmmm, that's wierd
<tseliot> rickspencer3: hi, and thanks :-)
<chrisccoulson> did you move the nautilus and gnome-panel desktop files?
<czajkowski> 477127
<seb128> chrisccoulson, where do you store required components?
<czajkowski> or 479156
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's stock lucid
<czajkowski> I'd love someone to tel me why my software center is gone
<seb128> (if I restored everything properly which I think I did)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the required components are in /etc/xdg/gnome-session/components
<chrisccoulson> there might be some clue in ~/.xsession-errors why it went wrong
<seb128> that is there
<fagan> czajkowski: karmic?
<czajkowski> yes
<fagan> czajkowski: did you try to reinstall it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, WARNING: no provider registered for component WindowManager,Panel,Filemanager: the key file has no key " WindowManager,Panel,Filemanager "
<czajkowski> fagan: reinstall Karmic, or ?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oops. i've just realised that the components must be separated by a semi-colon
<chrisccoulson> i made the change on my machine when i realised it, but didn't update the package
<chrisccoulson> my bad ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I wonder why it works for you ;-)
<fagan> czajkowski: the software center sudo apt-get install it and see if that fixes it
<fagan> if it doesnt its a bug id say
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it works for me because i updated the file locally here, but forgot to change the package ;)
<czajkowski> possibly, I know I'm not the only one who is missing it
<czajkowski> fagan: ya don't say, hence I copied in the bug numbers bug 479156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 479156 in ubuntustudio-menu "gnome-app-install instead of ubuntu-software-center" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/479156
<czajkowski> bug 47127
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 47127 in ntp "The daily update couldn't update ntp (dup-of: 47097)" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47127
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 47097 in ntp "upgrade ntp-server crash" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47097
<czajkowski> bah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what do I have to change?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the file should look like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331731/
<fagan> czajkowski: it hasnt been updated since the 23rd of October in karmic so I have the slight feeling that its something very small
<fagan> czajkowski: run software-center in terminal does it show or does it give out an error
<czajkowski> fagan: as I said, I will when I get home. at work
<fagan> Oh ok
<chrisccoulson> brb, need to restart session
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your changes seem to make no difference on login
<seb128> compiz starts exactly at the same point
<mvo> mpt: expanding a treeview/listview row dynamically is in itself not a big deal, the problem is that we need the treeview in "all-rows-have-equal" height mode. otherwise its getting really slow (because gtk will query each row every time the treeveiw change). so having a "+" button to install is easy, but expanding is not that easy
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - hmmm, that's wierd
<chrisccoulson> have you got the bootchart? and also the contents of your ~/.xsession-errors?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sec
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091130-1.png lucid stock
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091130-6.png your changes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - gnome-settings-daemon starts about 1/2 second quicker with my change, but like vuntz predicted, the delay just gets pushed elsewhere (to gnome-settings-daemon)
<chrisccoulson> but, i could probably find a way around that too
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - there should be some timestamps in your ~/.xsession-errors too. those would be useful to keep
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want a copy of those?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yes please
<chrisccoulson> it might be worth running my other build without the changes, to compare the timestamps
<chrisccoulson> i'll put the info on the spec then
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/.xsession-errors
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. i get a permission denied error though ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, retry
<chrisccoulson> thats better. thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what is your other build?
<seb128> where rather
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm just trying it now to make sure it still works
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - my other build is here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/gnome-session-startup-time/profiling/
<chrisccoulson> the only changes in that one is the logging of timestamps in ~/.xsession-errors
<and471> mvo: fixed
<mvo> and471: many thnaks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, trying that
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson,
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/.xsession-errors-stock
<seb128> and
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/.xsession-errors-speed
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. that's pretty good actually - the largest delays seem to correspond with what I see here in virtualbox (albeit, they are much shorter on your hardware)
<chrisccoulson> still, 500ms to load gconf keys though
<chrisccoulson> 150ms to start DK-power
<chrisccoulson> so, that's quite a time saving. i just need to figure out a way to not shift those delays elsewhere, where they still delay the session loading
<seb128> is the dkpower win effective or is that delayed too?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's delayed until it is actually needed. on the default session, it will be g-p-m that starts it (with this change)
<chrisccoulson> but the session should be usable by then
<seb128> ok, so it's a good win ;-)
<chrisccoulson> or gnome-session will start it if you call the session dialog (but that won't happen whilst the session is initializing)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm thinking of writing a small helper which starts alongside gnome-session and reads some of the gconf keys that are needed to load the session
<chrisccoulson> that might then avoid the delays of reading them later on
<chrisccoulson> and that could happen in parallel with gnome-session reading the desktop files then
<seb128> do you need an another process? can't you get gnome-session to do that?
<seb128> is that time io busy or cpu busy?
<mvo> and471: good timing, I did some merging today and hope to upload 1.1 today
<seb128> could we try to do disk preloading before the session?
<and471> mvo, cool
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i could do, but it would need to at least be in another thread, as the gconf calls all block
<seb128> hum
<seb128> not ideal indeed
<chrisccoulson> it's not. that's why i thought about just writing a small helper which starts gconf, and does a read of the keys that are needed by gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> pitti, desktop-lucid-suspend-quirks-halsectomy could you give details on what the other remaining usages are?
<chrisccoulson> and then hopefully when gnome-settings-daemon is started, it won't take ages to read them
<pitti> "usages"?
<pitti> seb128: ah, the bits I sent upstream?
<seb128> pitti, "drop other remaining hal usage from pm-utils: INPROGRESS"
<pitti> seb128: only trivialities; I updated the work item for clarification
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks, looks good to me, approving now ;-)
<Keybuk> weirdness
<Keybuk> if the external mixer control box is off when I boot, something sets the sound card output volume to 0 on boot
<Keybuk> if it's on, it's whatever I left it at
<pitti> oh, is that it?
<pitti> I keep wondering why the volume is 0 most of the times, but not always
<Keybuk> pitti: do you have an external mixer though?
<pitti> Keybuk: just external speakers
<Keybuk> if it happens for you too, I may be mis-triaging ;)
<pitti> the internal ones don't actually deserve to be called "speakers"..
 * Keybuk has a physical box that the sound card outputs to, that then amplifies it and sends it to the 8 speakers
<Keybuk> (sometimes I wonder why I don't work for Gentoo <g> I'm clearly a ricer)
<pitti> ricer?
<Keybuk> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ricer
<mpt> Keybuk, the difference is you're doing most of your ricing for millions of people, whereas the average Gentoo ricer does it individually
<pitti> lol
<ccheney> pitti: or http://funroll-loops.info/
<pitti> lol
 * Amaranth waves
<seb128> hey Amaranth
<seb128> Amaranth, could you make compiz stop to depends on compiz-fusion-plugins-extra?
<seb128> at least recommends it
<seb128> so I can give a try to what boot difference it makes
<pitti> sudo dpkg -P --force-depends
<seb128> pitti, I should have added "without breaking my box or having it complaining every time I want to do upgrades"
<seb128> ;-)
<Amaranth> seb128: I think I need to talk to the guy handling the compiz settings spec
<pitti> heh
<seb128> Amaranth, he's djsiegel there when he's around
<Amaranth> Yeah I always forget his IRC nick :)
<seb128> Amaranth, and I was there at sprint and uds, so I can probably reply to questions too
<Amaranth> I don't want to hijack it from him
<seb128> Amaranth, what do you need to know?
<seb128> he doesn't care about packaging
<Amaranth> Well getting rid of that dependency means changing the default plugins
<seb128> he's just looking at a good set of options for something visually nice
<Amaranth> Although I really wish I was able to get to that meeting...
<seb128> you said the other day that nothing from extra was used?
<Amaranth> No, but I don't know if he has anything planned
<seb128> Amaranth, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-compiz-effects
<seb128> Amaranth, there is a bzr with what he wants
<seb128> it's in the spec whiteboard
<Amaranth> ah he actually has some changes made now
<seb128> Amaranth, well he asked some people to test his changes and did a demo at uds
<seb128> so I guess it's working since uds
<Amaranth> hehe, and he is changing settings that don't even work...
<seb128> which ones?
<Amaranth> the cursor ones
<Amaranth> that's an Ubuntu patch that (last time I checked) doesn't even do anything
<Amaranth> I think we've been forward porting it since hardy...
<djsiegel> Amaranth: hey
<Amaranth> djsiegel: ah, there you are
<baptistemm> hello again
<baptistemm> seb128, I'm picking gnome-bluetooth to update, I'll do gvfs / nautilus if possible
<seb128> baptistemm, ok
<Amaranth> djsiegel: I see you want to speed up some of the animations in compiz
<djsiegel> yeah
<Amaranth> djsiegel: I believe you were the same person fighting against doing that in gnome-do for the same reasons I'm about to give you :)
<djsiegel> let me hear 'em
<DBO> Amaranth, that was me actually
<Amaranth> djsiegel: How many frames is 80 milliseconds assuming 60 fps?
<djsiegel> A little under 5
<djsiegel> Is 60fps what we're working with?
<Amaranth> You think showing 5 frames for a glide 2 animation looks smooth?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Well yes, most people have LCD screens
<DBO> 60fps is the high end, most laptops screens are 50fps
<Amaranth> DBO: Are you sure about that? You may just be seeing nvidia's dynamic twinview crap
<DBO> intel
<DBO> positive about it too, a lot of the higher resolution LCD's are 50-52Hz
<Amaranth> That's even worse then
<djsiegel> Amaranth: check http://launchpad.net/compiz-settings-lucid
<djsiegel> I am pushing a branch right now
<djsiegel> the file exported-settings is my compiz settings dump
<djsiegel> (I have been having trouble hot-loading gconf settings)
<Amaranth> hrm, you seem to be setting a shadow radius of 16 as well
<Amaranth> Does your laptop use intel graphics?
<djsiegel> mine does not
<djsiegel> Amaranth: these are not being handed down from god
<djsiegel> if you have any objections or suggestions, tell me and I will make changes
<Amaranth> Alright well I know at one point setting shadow radius to a multiple of 2 resulted in solid white shadows with intel
<Amaranth> Let me check if that still happens
<seb128> Amaranth, cleaning extra wins us 0.5s cpu usage
<Amaranth> seb128: Consider it gone
<seb128> I'm wondering what compiz still does for 8 seconds
<Amaranth> That's horrible
<djsiegel> Amaranth: do you know of a way to load/dump compiz settings from the command line? I would like to automate it a bit, and messing with gconf has not worked well enough
<Amaranth> djsiegel: something using ccs, I guess
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> het seb128
<kenvandine> hey
<seb128> kenvandine, would you be interested in doing the empathy 2.29 update in lucid?
<kenvandine> sure
<seb128> kenvandine, rebase on debian experimental for packaging, they have it
<seb128> most of the work is to port the indicator changes
<seb128> thanks!
<Amaranth> ok 16 seems to not break anything with intel anymore, bug fixed
<kenvandine> seb128, is tomorrow ok?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: compiz (animation) - Error: Animation settings mismatch in "Animation Selection" list for Focus event.
<seb128> kenvandine, next week is ok, it's early lucid, plenty of updates and merges still to do
<Amaranth> (I ran python compiz_settings.py)
<kenvandine> ok, it will be a bit of work to update the patch
<seb128> kenvandine, ie whenever you can will do
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
<djsiegel> Amaranth: yes, I see that
<djsiegel> no animation is set for the focus event
<djsiegel> so instead of simply having no animation, compiz spews?
<djsiegel> why do people keep blaming me for that? :)
<Amaranth> we didn't have an animation for focus events before either
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> well, I will add an empty entry then
<djsiegel> before there was an animation rule matching all windows, with animation set to None
<djsiegel> now there is no rule, so compiz whines
<djsiegel> I will restore
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> shoot
<djsiegel> compiz profile does not remember some keybindings, and number/layout of workspaces
<Amaranth> weird, gconf-editor says there is a Fade event set for all windows
<Amaranth> for focus, I mean
<Amaranth> oh, I think it's because you have two matches for the focus one but only one animation...
<Amaranth> maybe not
<Amaranth> adding an animation in ccsm didn't fix it either
<Amaranth> weird, what did you do to it? :)
<Amaranth> oh, I see
<Amaranth> djsiegel: You left focus_durations having two values
<djsiegel> I re-added the empty focus and shade
<Amaranth> but there was only one focus animation set
<djsiegel> Huh?
<djsiegel> I had zero focus animations set
<djsiegel> I think the settings are not applying cleanly?
<Amaranth> then your code is failing to wipe all of my settings
<djsiegel> It's not my code
<Amaranth> but I didn't have any focus animations either
<djsiegel> it's gconftool --load
<djsiegel> So, is there any better way to load these settings?
<djsiegel> I've tried loading to gconf, and compiz doesn't seem to like it
<djsiegel> I just tried compiz profiles, and they don't capture all settings
<and471> jono: just checked out the code for lernid, it looks good but it is got a few bugs that I can't seem to solve, I am getting frustrated by quickly's architecture :-/
<and471> it is > it has
<Amaranth> djsiegel: I dunno, I've always just edited the xml files when I wanted to change default settings
<Amaranth> compiz (animation) - Error: Animation settings mismatch in "Animation Selection" list for Minimize event.
<djsiegel> Which xml files?
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> djsiegel: The ones in the source package...
<djsiegel> Amaranth: so, is that how I should swing this?
<djsiegel> Edit that file?
<djsiegel> that might be easiest
<Amaranth> well, several files
<Amaranth> one per plugin
<djsiegel> Maybe I should just express all the changes as separate bugs?
<Amaranth> we have quilt patches for each source package that modify default settings
<djsiegel> then you can comment on a case by case basis if you find something wrong?
<Amaranth> that could get messy, you make a lot of changes :)
<Amaranth> maybe one per package
<djsiegel> one bug per package?
<Amaranth> yeah
<djsiegel> what do you mean by package?
<djsiegel> compiz plugin?
<Amaranth> oh, and don't change anything for the extra plugins
<djsiegel> which are the extra plugins?
<Amaranth> no, the plugins are split up into compiz-plugins (compiz source package), compiz-fusion-plugins-main, and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
<djsiegel> hmm
<Amaranth> and we'll be doing further splitting soon
<djsiegel> I am only applying changes to plugins that were already enabled by default in Karic
<djsiegel> karmic*
<baptistemm> asac, around?
<Amaranth> compiz-fusion-plugins-extra is getting kicked out completely (we only use extrawm from that and don't set any settings for it)
<djsiegel> Amaranth: can we set some time aside to go through the changes I want to make?
<djsiegel> then we can figure out the best way to proceed?
<Amaranth> the rest are going to get split into plugins we use or that are commonly used and plugins that are crack
<Amaranth> well if that time isn't today it's probably going to have to be next monday
<djsiegel> I was hoping we could just have branches with xml files that are easy to load
<djsiegel> Amaranth: any time
<djsiegel> it could even be in a few weeks
<asac> baptistemm: for two/three more minutes ;)
<djsiegel> but the loading of new setting en masse doesn't seem to work
<baptistemm> okay, asas I"m cleaning the patch of gnome-bluetooth to update 2.28.3, and I wanted to know if 03-fix-killswitch-memleak.patch was reported to bgo?
<baptistemm> s/asas/asac/
<asac> baptistemm: no. please forward
<baptistemm> okay
<baptistemm> okay thanks
<Amaranth> djsiegel: as long as you aren't enabling or disabling any plugins I can wait
<Amaranth> djsiegel: but I need to know that soon because I want to get the packages split
<hyperair> does anyone know how fast synaptic refreshes its speed estimation?
 * hyperair thinks this might be the reason synaptic causes X's CPU usage to rise significantly
<Amaranth> actually I'm thinking about splitting each plugin into a separate binary package and just not having plugin pack packages at all
<Amaranth> just make the 'compiz' metapackage depend on the plugins we use directly
<and471> hyperair: mvo would be the one to ask
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> right
<hyperair> well i'll just wait then
<and471> hehe
<djsiegel> Amaranth: that sounds like the best approach, if not the most arduous...
<hyperair> Amaranth: if you do that, i think it'd be a good idea to at least have them around as metapackages for easy installation.
<djsiegel> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lucid/CompizDefaults
<djsiegel> Commands, Negative (Needed for ally?), and Display Info on Resize are the three plugins I think we can disable
<Amaranth> I know some terminal users who would seriously disagree with that last one :)
<Amaranth> and commands is needed for compatibility with metacity
<djsiegel> really? the commands plugin is devoid of any settings
<djsiegel> which is the only reason I thought we could deprecate it
<Amaranth> they are synced from metacity
<djsiegel> and explain the terminal users' use case
<djsiegel> oh, ok
<djsiegel> ah, does the display info on resize on display resize info on terminals?
<djsiegel> only display*
<Amaranth> yeah
<djsiegel> Weird, I missed that setting
<Amaranth> although there is also a bug there that makes resizes really slow for some people
<djsiegel> what does that plugin cost us?
<Amaranth> for terminals and Qt
<Amaranth> apparently all Qt windows set the hint that they want the resize info
<djsiegel> Yeah, I think the terminal use case may not be a strong enough reason to keep the plugin enabled
<Amaranth> I'm fine with dropping it, really
<Amaranth> just saying we're going to get complaints
<djsiegel> if it has any cost for the average user
<djsiegel> yeah
<Amaranth> People throw crazy fits when it doesn't work exactly like metacity
<djsiegel> we will get complaints no matter what
<jono> and471, thanks for trying it!
<jono> did you file the bugs?
<and471> jono no not yet
<jono> and471, if you could file them that would be awesome
<jono> I am now in sheening mode for 0.2
<and471> jono, can I just send you the patch :-)
<Amaranth> djsiegel: The main reason I want to get rid of the "plugin pack" packages is because they are not even named correctly anymore
<Amaranth> compiz fusion is gone, it's all just compiz
<Amaranth> but we haven't figured out upstream how we're going to split things up
<djsiegel> ok
<jono> and471, indeed, just make a branch and propose a merge :)
<and471> jono, okay :-)
<jono> :)
<jono> thanks!
<djsiegel> Amaranth: can you think of reasons to keep viewport-switch-on-window-drag-to-edge or snapping windows?
<djsiegel> I think the first is poorly executed, and could really confuse people, and is asymmetrical because it currently doesn't allow dragging up (could be fixed, of course)
<djsiegel> and the second is not helpful
<mvo> hyperair: pulse() is run ~30/sec or so, could be that
<djsiegel> and can cause frustration when dragging windows around, especially with netbook trackpads
<Amaranth> djsiegel: We _have_ to keep snap
<djsiegel> Why?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Because otherwise I'll throw my computer trying to line things up :)
<djsiegel> What do you try to line up?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Try using your computer without snap for a week
<Amaranth> Or do you just maximize everything?
<djsiegel> I have, it's great
<djsiegel> no, I don't maximize
<djsiegel> please, tell me your use cases
<djsiegel> I don't doubt you
<djsiegel> i just need to know
<Amaranth> I stick videos in one corner, a terminal in another, a tomboy window next to that terminal etc
<Amaranth> Now, wobbly snap is very annoying and I hate it
<Amaranth> But regular snap is awesome
<djsiegel> so, you use it to align windows?
<djsiegel> ok, I think we can do window snapping
<djsiegel> but I want screen-edge snapping off
<Amaranth> Err, half my use case was screen-edge snapping :)
<djsiegel> at least against the panel, at the very least
<djsiegel> you already have y-constraint
<djsiegel> so why do you need to snap to the top panel as well?
<djsiegel> you just drag against it
<djsiegel> and it snaps
<Amaranth> Why do you want to disable it?
<Amaranth> Ideally we'd have edge resistance and not snap and none of them would matter
<djsiegel> Because users get frustrated when dragging windows around and they snap too aggressively
<Amaranth> s/them/this/
<djsiegel> I think we can fine-tune it
<and471> jono: https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/lernid/lernid-andrew
<djsiegel> there are two types of people, I think
<djsiegel> (1) those who understand the snapping behavior and use it to their advantage
<and471> jono, if you have and questions about the merge, the info is in the commit message, otherwise don't hesitate to ask me now :-)
<djsiegel> and (2) people who don't use snapping, but are still affected and annoyed by it
<djsiegel> so, let's adjust the settings so people who benefit from snapping still benefit, and people who don't use it aren't bothered too much
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Alright, I can see that
<and471> and>any
<Amaranth> btw, looking at the wiki it seems you want to move everything to the super key
<Amaranth> are you going to do that for metacity too?
<djsiegel> Yeah, that's tricky
<Amaranth> Actually you _have_ to do it for metacity too
<Amaranth> Otherwise the compiz settings won't stick, metacity will override them
<djsiegel> What are the metacity equivs of show all windows and expo?
<and471> djsiegel, Amaranth : bear in mind some people don't have a super key
<Amaranth> doesn't exist
<Amaranth> but show desktop
<djsiegel> yes, I know
<djsiegel> yeah
<jono> thanks and471
<jono> gonna take a look
<Amaranth> djsiegel: also if you switch to 2x2 workspaces we might as well toss cube out completely
<and471> jono, are you a first time pygtk programmer or veteran?
<djsiegel> cube is already not enabled by default
<Amaranth> and471: jokosher...
<djsiegel> so what do you mean "toss it out completely" ?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Right but I mean don't make the Extra visual effects enable it
<and471> Amaranth, ah yes <facepalm/>
<jono> and471, I have written a bunch of apps, but still consider myself a novice
<Amaranth> don't even install it
<Amaranth> shove it in universe
<Amaranth> etc
<jono> and471, you need to propose it for a merge
<djsiegel> Amaranth: ah, is that what the extra effects do now?
<djsiegel> yes, we will need to still have the cube...
<and471> jono, just curious, and see above :-)
<djsiegel> I was wondering if there's any way to enable the cube with 2x2?
<Amaranth> I'm pretty sure that'd what macslow made extra do
<and471> jono, oh sorry
<Amaranth> No, you can't have vertical workspaces with cube
<hyperair> re plugin pack packages
<and471> jono, can you not just merge manually?
<djsiegel> I don't see anything wrong with switching to 4x1 workspaces when you enable extra effects
<mvo> and471: I still have not merge, sorry :( tomorrow, promised!
<jono> and471, I can do, just want to keep everything in place
<hyperair> mv	
<jono> I am checking out your branch now
 * hyperair coughs
<Amaranth> djsiegel: That gets...tricky
<and471> jono, never mind, I have proposed now
<and471> mvo, hehe np
<and471> mvo, take notice though, jono is merging something I wrote 5 minutes ago :-)
<and471> mvo, hehe joking
<mvo> and471: *weehhh* ;)
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Are we going to automatically change a users 6x6 workspaces to 36x1 when turning on cube then change it back to 6x6 if they do back to wall?
<djsiegel> and471: what percentage of people do not have a super key? AFAIK, it's only some thinkpad models which do not have it?
<mvo> and471: its because the branch contains too much good stuff
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Or are we just going to toss their settings for that when switching?
<mvo> and471: that give me ideas
<djsiegel> Amaranth: 99% of people will stick with the default settings and never change them
<mvo> and471: like the config thing is great, I would like to make it a singelton and use gconf optionally
<and471> djsiegel, absolutely no clue, but up until around a year ago I didn't (it bugged me when I had to fiddle with gnome-do to change it, ironic you were a dev on that :-] )
<Amaranth> oh, the most we can do is 32x1 anyway :)
<and471> djsiegel, anyway it is not just thinkpad, some old desktop keyboard just don't have them
<djsiegel> and anyone who has configured 32x1 can figure out how to get that back
<mvo> i don't have super on my desktop
<djsiegel> and471: yeah, we won't put anything essential behind super
<djsiegel> like, you need to use Super to turn off the machine :)
<Amaranth> cube is worthless with more than 4 workspaces anyway
<and471> djsiegel, hehe :-)
<and471> mvo, what to you mean make a singleton?
<djsiegel> Amaranth: I think it's perfectly reasonable to think of the action of setting desktop effect settings as applying a blanket of new settings
<djsiegel> when you choose "extra effects", you take what we give you
<mclasen_> djsiegel: I so want a superpower button...
<djsiegel> that's why there's a custom option
<jono> and471, looks good, the only bug I found was Lernid hanging when you exit the app
<jono> could you take a look at fixing that in your branch and then I will merge it in
<and471> jono, yeah, there is a weird thing going on with gtk
<and471> jono, sorry I don't have time, was just telling mvo, I have exams :-(, plus I am tired :-)
<djsiegel> Amaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/lucid-round-9
<jono> and471, ok, I will merge this in, we can fix that later, it is not critical right now
<djsiegel> Amaranth: I am going to file bugs there describing the changes we need to make
<and471> jono, see ya
<jono> thanks for the patch :)
<djsiegel> I will aim for 1 bug per affected plugin?
<djsiegel> And I will exhaustively list the settings
<and471> jono: np, btw great idea for an application :-)
<djsiegel> in a spec document
<Amaranth> djsiegel: alright, that'll be fine then
<jono> thanks and471
<jono> btw, what is your name and email - for the credits?
<jono> dammit
<Amaranth> djsiegel: hopefully I'll have compiz reading GtkSettings for the colors, btw
<djsiegel> then you or others can make patches out of those specs?
<Amaranth> yeah
<djsiegel> Amaranth: what does that mean?
<djsiegel> it will fix the viewport switcher bug?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Meaning following your theme
<djsiegel> where will it follow?
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Like the themed docky dots patch I made :)
<djsiegel> yes, where exactly will the colors be used?
<Amaranth> everywhere compiz uses blue right now
<djsiegel> chaotic (lead visual designer at canonical) and I sat down and manually styled all compiz visuals enabled by default
<Amaranth> iirc only resize
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> well, so long as they look good with Human and NewWave that works too
<djsiegel> yeah
<djsiegel> Resize, Viewport Switch Preview
<djsiegel> I think that was it
<Amaranth> that's another reason to ditch cube, actually
<djsiegel> Amaranth: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/compiz-settings-lucid
<djsiegel> Why?
<Amaranth> the OSD when switching workspaces looks awesome :)
<Amaranth> but cube doesn't have it
<djsiegel> it could look awesomer: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/compiz-settings-lucid/+bug/484523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484523 in compiz-settings-lucid "Compiz is not using the Outline color set for the viewport switch preview in the Wall plugin" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Amaranth> hrm, white and gray? really?
<djsiegel> yeah, to match the look of notify-osd
<Amaranth> notify OSD is black
<djsiegel> right, well, black + alpha, gray + alpha, white + alpha
<djsiegel> that sort of see-through grayscale look
<and471> jono: 'help-and-run' I may have accidentally deleted a signal handler in a glade file, and that would be the cause of the problem. Check the revision diff and you will probably find it. Bye!
 * hyperair coughs
<hyperair> well then, now that X has been OOM-killed and everything's back to normal...
<hyperair> mv-oh he disappeared >_>
 * hyperair sighs
<toobaz_> Hello. Does anybody know if behind the choice of putting nautilus scripts in /usr/share/nautilus_scripts and assuming they are installed only in that place there was some discussion?
<djsiegel> So, how do you guys feel about turning the Nautilus location bar and possible status bar off by default?
<pitti> kenvandine: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start -> note that you should have one "work items:" (you just renamed it to -alpha 2)
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> how does that look?
<pitti> kenvandine: I think it'd be better to swap around
<pitti> "Work items:" -> for alpha-2
<pitti> and keep the a3 ones in "Work items (alpha-3)"
<kenvandine> the blueprint is targeted for alpha-3
<pitti> kenvandine: asac and I recently discussed how to clean this up and provide tool support
<kenvandine> so won't it default to that?
<pitti> but right now it just shows "work items:" stuff
<pitti> kenvandine: we don't generate a report for alpha-3
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> ok
<dobey> kwwii: btw, you can create an fd.o wiki acct on http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/UserPreferences
<baptistemm> hello
<baptistemm> seb128, I did some packaging, gnome-bluetooth, gvfs and nautilus
<Keybuk> seb128: if gdm fails to start X, does it exit with a useful exit status?
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - the reference machine for the startup time work is a Dell Mini, isn't it?
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: mini 10v ssd
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: iirc
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - thanks
<ccheney> iirc it started out as mini 9 ssd but became hard to source so switched to mini 10v ssd
 * ccheney headed to eye doctor, bbl
<Keybuk> yeah same hardware, different case
<baptistemm> pitti, does the script that update http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html is running?
<pitti> baptistemm: it should
<pitti> (although the canonical link is /lucid/ now)
<baptistemm> pitti, Hi by the way :)
<baptistemm> pitti, you mean http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html is the same than http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html
<pitti> baptistemm: hey!
<pitti> baptistemm: it's a symlink, yes
<baptistemm> hmmm
<baptistemm> I wanted to see the version to update for karmic, I'm interested to update gnome components
<baptistemm> pitti, hmm poppler has a CVE fixed since 0.12.0, would you agree to upgrade to 0.12.2?
<pitti> baptistemm: backporting the fix is fine
<pitti> 0.12.2 breaks ABI without announcing so, so the full upgrade isn't suitable for SRU
<pitti> (it horribly breaks cups, for example)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've detailed the gnome-session findings at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/StartupSpeed now
<chrisccoulson> i will probably do some g-s-d work later, so i might ping you for some more testing if you're still around ;)
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
<baptistemm> pitti, and what about 0.12.1?
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
<pitti> I don't know
<baptistemm> there is also some security fixes apparently
<baptistemm> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/commit/?h=poppler-0.12&id=bb21f825fcaa49e149cc7a7eb9c68f15f11fff1d
 * baptistemm fears the noise coming from its laptop HD
<seb128> chrisccoulson, excellent, thank you
<seb128> baptistemm, better to backport the security patches rather I would say
<baptistemm> gnome-bluetooth-2.28.3-0ubuntu1 compiled
<baptistemm> does someone understand why my build fails http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36268161/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.nautilus_1:2.28.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<baptistemm> it seems there is some breakage
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i had an idea for improving g-s-d startup time, but i'm not sure what you think about it. the plugins are currently loaded in order of priority. i'm thinking that we should pick some plugins based on priority (such as xrandr, xsettings) which can block the rest of the session from loading, and then load the rest (lowest priority plugins, such as media-keys, housekeeping etc) when the rest of the session is loading
<chrisccoulson> what do you think?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, when is session registration done right now?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if it's done after high priority plugins it seems only a matter of tweaking those numbers?
<seb128> in any case seems a good idea
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - currently, it fork()'s, and the parent process exits when all of the plugins are loaded and started. the next session phase starts as soon as the parent exits
<chrisccoulson> so it would just be a matter of the parent exitting after a plugin of a pre-determined priority has started
<seb128> oh, ok, not really optimal indeed
<Keybuk> what's "gdm-new" ? :)
<seb128> Keybuk, in what context?
<Keybuk> ubuntu-desktop PPA
<seb128> the new gdm before it landed in karmic
<seb128> different name to make switch between versions easier
<seb128> it's in the jaunty ppa only, we should clean it now, thanks for noticing! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you know what gnome-settings-daemon-helper is for? (it's part of the gnome-session source)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems we need xrandr xsettings basically
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's what i was thinking
<seb128> no, but vuntz most likely does
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it seems like it only sets up an environment variable (GTK_RC_FILES)
<chrisccoulson> not sure if that's used anywhere. the value it's set to tends to suggest it's old GTK1 specific
<chrisccoulson> in which case, we could probably drop from the session ;)
<chrisccoulson> a grep of the GTK source suggests that it's not used
<pitti> kenvandine: ugh, desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start is a heavy beast..
<kenvandine> yes
<djsiegel> Amaranth: hey
<djsiegel> Just played with snapping, and set edge-resistance to 18px
<Amaranth> djsiegel: howdy
<djsiegel> I think it's really good
<djsiegel> with no snapping, it's really difficult to place a window against the side of the screen, which I imagine many people would try to do
<djsiegel> more often that placing two windows exactly side-by-side
<djsiegel> we will have to test that edge resistance; it may be too small
<chrisccoulson> oh dear, clunking noises from my hard drive is surely not good :(
<mac_v> Amaranth: is it possible to make both wobbly and snap available ? ;)
<Amaranth> mac_v: wobbly has its own snap
<Amaranth> it has to due to what it does
<mac_v> but that is not good :(
<Amaranth> djsiegel: 18px feels a lot more like metacity
<Amaranth> djsiegel: things don't stick together so strongly
<djsiegel> do you think that's good?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> djsiegel: we should keep loading the image plugins though
<djsiegel> why?
<Amaranth> was just looking over your settings, random thought there :)
<Amaranth> djsiegel: Because plugins that need them don't depend on them so things just fail
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> ok I see
<Amaranth> but those plugins shouldn't depend on them because they may not need them (depends on what kind of image you use)
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> well
<djsiegel> we are configuring compiz for the default settings
<djsiegel> if people want to do things that aren't the default, then they can enable them
<Amaranth> well cube will need at least one of these
<djsiegel> unless your average person would do something that would necessitate those image plugins
<djsiegel> I don't see why
<Amaranth> the image on top of the cube
<djsiegel> hmm
<Amaranth> also we should disable the video plugin, it has _never_ been useful or used
<djsiegel> we can do a solid color for the cube tops
<djsiegel> or enable the image plugins when you enable the extra effects
<djsiegel> right?
<Amaranth> that could work, yeah
<djsiegel> I don't want to ship image plugins enabled when 99% of people will never ever use them
<Amaranth> oh, and we need to enable the titlebar info plugin
<djsiegel> just to make it so the small number of people who customize won't have to check a checkbox
<Amaranth> although maybe I should just patch the titleinfo stuff into gtk-window-decorator
<Amaranth> but we need the feature one way or another
<djsiegel> What does it do?
<Amaranth> adds a string to the window title for root windows and remote windows (ssh -X)
<djsiegel> hmm
<Amaranth> we only need it for root
<djsiegel> I don't understand
<djsiegel> oh, I see
<Amaranth> so people can see what apps are running as root
<djsiegel> let me test this
<Amaranth> we've had people complaining about this not existing for some time
<djsiegel> eh
<djsiegel> I don't like it
<djsiegel> seems like a hack
<djsiegel> so it says "ROOT" in the title bar, is that really going to stop me from messing up?
<Amaranth> well if I put it in gtk-window-decorator we can tweak the theme
<djsiegel> yeah, windows running as root should be a separate theme
<djsiegel> Amaranth: can we do that?
<djsiegel> select a different theme for root windows?
<Amaranth> I'll try to do something there
<djsiegel> that could be cool
<Amaranth> so forget titleinfo then
<djsiegel> yeah
<mac_v> there is a bug for that one too... for a separate root theme ;)
<djsiegel> so, Amaranth, disabling the video plugin -- that won't interfere with window thumbnails with video playback in them, right?
<Amaranth> so disable video, change snap to 18px
<djsiegel> pushed
<Amaranth> djsiegel: No, it's supposed to be a replacement for Xv
<Amaranth> hrm, do we really only have scaleaddons for the close window option?
<Amaranth> oh, no, we do the title stuff in there too
<djsiegel> Amaranth: ah, we also need to put the highlight back a bit
<Amaranth> highlight?
<Amaranth> oh, I think we should try turning resize mode back to normal
<djsiegel> yeah
<Amaranth> hmm, maybe not
<Amaranth> weird white flashing bug with intel
<djsiegel> Amaranth: so keep as rectangle?
<Amaranth> yeah, for now
<pitti> good night everyone
<djsiegel> night, pitti!
<rickspencer3> night pitti
 * ccheney found out the reason he can't see well with his glasses, his vision has improved quite a bit
<ccheney> from -5.50 to -4.50
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, was the launchpad downtime planned?
<chrisccoulson> i don't remember seeing any mail
<Keybuk> yes
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - thanks
 * Keybuk had a mail
<Keybuk> I remembered having it when I got the "DOWN!" screen :p
<chrisccoulson> the announcements must go to a list i'm not subscribed to then :-/
<chrisccoulson> or they just get lost in the noise
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: oh, no
<Keybuk> the mail I have is about a different time entirely ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks ;)
<chrisccoulson> so it's not just me then!
<fagan> awesome I just got the update to the software center that has system packages, its great to see it working.
<fagan> Wow slow as hell though
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-01
<eeejay> is it too late to propose banshee for lucid?
<rickspencer3> eeejay, very funny
<eeejay> rickspencer3, obviously i am completely out of touch
<rickspencer3> eeejay, sorry man
<rickspencer3> we covered that in some depth at UDS
<eeejay> rickspencer3, ah, gotcha. and the verdict was no?
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> sticking with rhythm box for at least one more release
 * eeejay is searching for meeting notes
<rickspencer3> actually, now that I think about it ... we didn't really cover it there
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> I think we decided before we left, and only touched on it at the application selection meeting and the music store meeting
<rickspencer3> eeejay, why would you like banshee as the default music player?
<dtchen> speaking of which, are the major "desktop decisions" from UDS-L coalesced somewhere?
<eeejay> rickspencer3, i remember the major blocker being a11y. imho banshee has better a11y than rythmbox at this point.
<rickspencer3> dtchen, http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/
<rickspencer3> of course, the real place to look is here:
<rickspencer3> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html
<eeejay> + it is really hard to spell rhythmbox
<rickspencer3> eeejay, well ... we're getting very mixed feedback about Banshee from current users, and also mixed messages about the roadmap
<rickspencer3> so for LTS, it was best to stick with rhythmbox
<eeejay> rickspencer3, ah, gotcha.
<eeejay> rickspencer3, anyway, a11y should not be a concern on banshee anymore in lucid+1, if users are repulsed by it, it's a different issue
<rickspencer3> yeah thanks to you
<rickspencer3> accessibility was certainly one key blocker
<rickspencer3> eeejay,  "repulsed" might be a bit harsh
<rickspencer3> ;)
<dtchen> rickspencer3: thanks
<rickspencer3> dtchen, do you have any specific questions I can try to answer?
<dtchen> dtchen: not yet; I'll ping if/when I do.
<dtchen> err, rickspencer3 ^^
<rickspencer3> dtchen, sounds good
<rickspencer3> though I will be dropping offline for the evening soon
<rickspencer3> you can always catch up with me tomorrow, or email me
<dtchen> right, e-mail is best for me, too
<rickspencer3> dtchen, rick.spencer@canonical.com
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - does compiz need to read anything from GConf before it registers with the session manager?
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: not that I can tell, no
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: although it's pretty much one right after another
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - thanks
<didrocks> morning! I'll be away all this week as I'm giving my last ubuntu training session for companies :)
<baptistemm> hello
<pitti> Good morning
<fagan> morning
<pitti> bryce: thanks for the X requirements mail
<pitti> tseliot: I am an upstream udev committer :)
<tseliot> pitti: aah, so you accepted your own commit :-)
<pitti> tseliot: well, I did discuss it with Kay first
<tseliot> of course, that's the way it works, unless there's only 1 maintainer
<tseliot> is it just me or is the wiki down today?
<pitti> for bryce and me, too
<tseliot> :-/
<jmarsden> Seems to be back up now, for me at least.  I've not tried editing anything yet though...
<jmarsden> Came back up about 40 minutes ago.
<tseliot> it's still down for me
<baptistemm> hi pitti tseliot and others
<tseliot> hi baptistemm
<baptistemm> whi is usually "responsible" of fontconfig, I did a packaging of 2
<baptistemm> ... 2.8.0 and ported the big patch inside, but I hardly understand how it works, so I would like a review
<tseliot> baptistemm: maybe asac knows
<baptistemm> pitti, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+bug/444704 does it sound a valid bug for you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444704 in gnome-disk-utility "should depend on crypsetup" [Undecided,New]
<baptistemm> is it permitted to introduce new dependency in stable release?
<pitti> it's not a bug I'd fix in a stable release
<pitti> hm, I thought we'd install it by default even
 * pitti reassigns to dk-disks
<glatzor> hello mvo
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<glatzor> mvo, do you already have got any plany regarding the mime type handlers i software center?
<mvo> glatzor: not yet - why?
<mvo> glatzor: isn't that something that the session thing is doing?
<mvo> or could be doing?
<glatzor> mvo, because I would like to query the data in sessioninstaller :)
<mvo> glatzor: it should be easy to do with s-c
<mvo> the data is in the xapian-db
<glatzor> mvo,  in the long run it seems to make sense to merge sessioninstaller with software-center to share the widgets
 * mvo nods
<glatzor> and the same data :)
<seb128> hey glatzor mvo!
<glatzor> morning seb128 !
<seb128> hum, who is this guy who assign random bugs to the canonical desktop team now?
<mvo> glatzor: agreed, I will see if I can work on this today, it should be relatively straightforward
<mvo> xapian ftw!
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> dsl ip change
<seb128_> I was saying, who is this guy assigning random bugs to canonical desktop team now?
<pitti> seb128_: I just fixed those, BTW
<seb128_> pitti, thanks, I fixed some too and I noticed you changed some others already
<pitti> who is that guy who merges poppler and screws up the versio number?
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128_> ups
 * seb128_ hugs pitti
<seb128_> I think I did dch -i, then the new version update and forgot to change the revision
<seb128_> in any case good we don't want the debian version
<pitti> we do now
<pitti> they reverted the ABI change
<seb128_> they did revert upstream changes which I'm not sure is the way to go
<pitti> and we don't really want a different API/ABI than Debian
<seb128_> well, was the abi change on purpose?
<pitti> well, we'd have to fork all packages which use libpoppler-dev
<seb128_> we don't want a different api,abi than upstream
<pitti> they will currently FTBFS
<vegetto71> hello?
<seb128_> Debian is being ridiculous there
<seb128_> if the abi change was wanted upstream unstable is the right place to deal with it
<seb128_> playing undo upstream change is of no use
<seb128_> I don't want to keep distro patching upstream apis away
<pitti> hm, they rejected the bug reports
<pitti> grrr
<pitti> this is hilarious
<seb128_> I told you that yesterday
 * pitti goes to add a "if building on Ubuntu, use this poppler API, else use that" patch to cups then
<seb128_> libpoppler has no stable abi
<seb128_> what is the upstream bug for reference?
<pitti> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25344 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25363
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 25344 in general "Fix for #2686 breaks printing (error -12)" [Critical,Resolved: notabug]
<seb128_> pitti, right, typical reaction from them there
<seb128_> they don't want to give garanty for libpoppler abi
<seb128_> customer applications should be using the glib bindings
<seb128_> I agree it's an issue
<seb128_> but what Josselin is doing is not useful either
<seb128_> in Debian unstable they could as well go over and fix the few applications using it
<seb128_> rather than patching away upstream changes
<seb128_> they will have to catch up with upstream at some point anyway
 * pitti pokes joss to revert the change then
<seb128_> I doubt Debian wants to divert from upstream there
<baptistemm> salut seb128_
<seb128_> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> I did some packaging yesterday
<seb128_> I noticed
<seb128_> thanks but for stable updates you need extra steps, like adding a debdiff to the bug, giving justifications on why we need the update, etc
<baptistemm> seb128_, nautilus packaging is buggy, there is a leftover from a patch i was working on
<seb128_> baptistemm, what is buggy?
<baptistemm> okay, I'll the remaining steps tonight
<seb128_> you worked from a local checkout which had your changes?
<baptistemm> s/is buggy/doesn't compile/
<baptistemm> no this is a debian patch I was working on
<baptistemm> to integrate in my ppa to test to UI thing
<seb128_> that change is not in the ubuntu version
<seb128_> you probably used a locally modified source to base your work
<baptistemm> no but it remains listes in debian/patches/series
<seb128_> get a fresh source from the mirror
<seb128_> the change is not coming from the ubuntu version
<seb128_> ou are working on a locally modified version
<baptistemm> at least one can review fontconfig 2.8.0 which targets lucid :)
<baptistemm> I'm not happy with this big patch lying in the packaging
<baptistemm> it is a pain in the *ss to update
<seb128_> baptistemm, nobody likes having distro changes
<seb128_> but when we have some often that's for a reason
<baptistemm> my complain is not about having distro patch but rather 1) this one is rather hard to update, and 2) I don't understand what it does but of lack of comments in the patch
<baptistemm> but my fontconfig fu is low
<mac_v> pitti: seb128_: i think lightbreeze is assigning the bugs to canonical desktop since it is mentioned here.. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneHundredPaperCuts#Patched%20Paper%20Cut%20Pipeline
<mac_v> but i'm still not sure how assigns or who is supposed to them though ;)
<mac_v> s/how/who
 * pitti holds up his plate "work with upstream"
<pitti> just dumping them on the desktop team's feet won't help anyone
<seb128_> especially not this cycle
<seb128_> ETOOMUCHTODO
<pitti> it's not how FOSS works (or the desktop team's job either)
<seb128_> I'm happy to help where I can
<seb128_> but there is just too much to do right now
 * mac_v feels there isnt a proper plan to actually fix bugs in the papercuts :/  , but rather everything has just been improperly hypothesized 
<seb128_> mac_v, it's clear bugs don't get automagically fixed just because somebody decided to nominate those as hundredpapercut
<seb128_> it still help to build a list of usuability issues which would be nice to fix
<mac_v> seb128_: yeah , there is a big misunderstanding that the papercuts is actually a super squad to fix all the bugs , but folks dont know that only the suggestions are being make in hopes someone comes and fixes them ;)
<mac_v> made*
<seb128_> would be nice to fix that perception, it would perhaps stop people to nominate any bug as hundredpapercut because they figure that's what will make this bug open for 5 years fixed now
<mac_v> ex: > Bug #488129 :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488129 in nautilus "Nautilus usability" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488129
<baptistemm> seb128_, do you I pick git patches from 2-28 for gvfs and nautilus for the packaging update?
<seb128_> baptistemm, I get patches where they are, git, bugzilla, etc
<seb128_> why?
<baptistemm> +want
<seb128_> I don't understand the question
<seb128_> "do you I"
<seb128_> is the question what I do?
<seb128_> or what you should do?
<baptistemm> do you want I pick up git patches from 2-28 for gvfs and nautilus for the packaging update, I seen alex commited various fixes
<baptistemm> dor do you prefer I just stick to latest releases, and we'll put patches later.
<seb128_> depends of what those changes fix
<seb128_> to be honest I'm not sure those updates will be accepted in karmic sru
<seb128_> do they fix any really annoying issue?
<seb128_> which is open on launchpad
<seb128_> we don't want to waste too much efforts on stable update now
<seb128_> we only want to fix issues annoying ubuntu users
<mac_v> mpt: hi.. do you have a list of how the IM clients use the label for the "invisible" status?  empathy uses "hidden" but the gmail , yahoo and aol all use "invisible" , so does indicator applet... empathy being the odd one out , the empathy folks are willing to change it , they just want to know how others are named...
<mac_v> i'v seen an article of several IM clients being compared but dont recall where :(
<Ng> does anyone use those things? ;)
<mac_v> lol ;)
<Ng> (I'm a very light IM user, I've literally never forced my status)
<mpt> mac_v, http://www.szetopia.com/im-presence
<Ng> I'd go for "Automatic" and "Privacy" :)
<mac_v> mpt: awesome , thats the one [i think]... thanks :)
<mac_v> yup , thats the one i was looking for
<chrisccoulson> good afternoon everyone
<seb128_> hello chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128_, how are you?
<seb128> good! you?
<seb128> mvo, the dist-upgrader acts weird on lucid, it wants to clean build-essential, gettext, g++
<seb128> and lot of other things
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, not too bad thanks. i've just got back from town
<chrisccoulson> so, time to make some coffee :)
<seb128> I just got coffee too ;-)
<seb128> I'm about to do my daily bootcharts
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to have a look at gconf in a bit and try and figure out a way of avoiding that 500ms delay you see at the start of your session
<seb128> I will try to spend some time on merges and updates too today
<seb128> we are lagging being there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that would rock ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not done much work on merges recently :(
<chrisccoulson> i should do some ;)
<seb128> don't worry about those
<seb128> better to tackle login speed issues
<seb128> we have time for updates and merges
<seb128> we can wait for less buggy versions rather than jumping on early unstable
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that sounds like a good plan
<mvo> seb128: I have a look
<seb128> mvo, I'm not sure why those were installed in fact, are they part of the default install?
<mvo> seb128: I think we have it for dkms
<seb128> mvo, don't bother with that, that's probably not something worth looking at in early lucid
<seb128> not sure why I mentioned it ;-)
<seb128> is anybody else getting screen dimming too quickly in lucid?
<seb128> ie being cut after like 1 minute inactivity
<fagan> seb128: yep I got that too
<seb128> got? you fixed it?
<fagan> nope just put up with it
<fagan> I wouldnt know how to fix it :)
<seb128> vuntz, hey
<seb128> vuntz, how would you make a .desktop hidden by default from a sysadmin perspective (ie not editing the package entry)
<seb128> Amaranth, ^
<vuntz> seb128: what do you mean exactly?
<seb128> vuntz, let's say I'm a sysadmin and I don't want gedit in the menu
<seb128> what should I do, which is not editing the .desktop or .menu
<seb128> since those will be replaced on upgrade
<vuntz> no good way right now, I guess
<seb128> installing a .desktop in /usr/local will not take over the /usr one right?
<pitti> perhaps copying it into /etc/xdg/menus/ ?
<pitti> oh
<seb128> my best reply now is to dpkg-divert the ubuntu desktop
<mclasen> vuntz: add an exclude into a menu file in applications-merged/ ?
<vuntz> mclasen: ah, indeed
 * vuntz never tried this
<seb128> what format should that one have?
<seb128> vuntz, hum, /usr/local/share/applications entry do overwrite /usr ones for the settings categories
<seb128> do you know if that's wanted?
<seb128> like if you try display-properties
<seb128> settings = system, preferences
<vuntz> seb128: "If $XDG_DATA_DIRS is either not set or empty, a value equal to /usr/local/share/:/usr/share/ should be used."
<seb128> vuntz, well, should it overwrite those?
<seb128> like if there is a gedit.desktop is both
<seb128> should that be 2 entries or should it take only the first one?
<seb128> and why does it work differently for the application menu and the system one
<vuntz> seb128: if they have the same name, /usr/local/share should win, yes
<vuntz> and it should work the same way
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> vuntz, ok thanks, I figured what was wrong
<seb128> there was a gedit.desktop in my user dir
<chrisccoulson> hello vuntz
<chrisccoulson> gnome-settings-daemon-helper is only useful if you're running GTK1 applications isn't it?
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: I believe, yes
<seb128> vuntz, oh btw I know where GUADEC is going to be now! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - awesome, we can remove it then :)
<vuntz> seb128: it's a secret!
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: what about not removing it and putting it another package?
<chrisccoulson> vubtz - we could do, but we don't ship GTK1 anymore anyway
<chrisccoulson> s/vubtz/vuntz
<chrisccoulson> (stupid fingers)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, use tab ;-)
<seb128> there is only one v<tab> there
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's handy :)
<chrisccoulson> ah, theres 2 people if i type "se"
<seb128> can't win everytime
<pitti> chrisccoulson: does g-s-d-helper win us 2 seconds? :-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - unfortunately not :(
<chrisccoulson> but it is cruft though ;)
<mpt> mvo, hi, do you have a good algorithm for the de-duplication yet?
<mvo> mpt: I have not done anything on this yet, the real challenge is making it fast
<mpt> mvo, it seems like the sort of thing that could be calculated once whenever the repositories are changed/updated
<mvo> mpt: possible
<mpt> mvo, one complication is that if someone searches for "wesnoth-data", probably we should return that package, even though it's an integral part of Battle for Wesnoth
<chrisccoulson> hmmm - "Various snmp software needs extracted MIBs from RFCs and IANA - which cannot be shipped - to be working as expected. Download and extract MIBs from RFCs and IANA?" Yes/No
<chrisccoulson> ok :-/
<mpt> chrisccoulson, please tell me that's not in a GUI
<chrisccoulson> mpt - it's a debconf question i just encountered whilst upgrading
<mvo> mpt: I think we only should de-duplicate if there is a application and a package with the same information "wesnoth" app and "wesnoth" package. if we are too agressive on the de-duplication that will confuse people
<mpt> darn
<chrisccoulson> i've honestly got no idea whether i should select Yes or No. i guess i'll just drop a pin and see which one it lands on ;)
<mpt> mvo, ok, that probably makes it faster too
<mvo> mpt: or having a "search more" button or something, but not having a way for users to search the full namespace is not ideal
<mpt> mvo, so tell me how silly this sounds
<mpt>  software item:: A piece of theoretically-installable software. Where `app-install-data` or an archive index refers to one or more applications inside a package, each application should be treated as a software item, but the package itself should not. All other packages should be treated as individual software items.
<mpt> mvo, and then I'd clarify that the searchable text even for an application should include its package name
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I got that one too
<seb128> I just used the default option
<mvo> mpt: give me a moment, I need to (carefully) parse it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i did that too
<chrisccoulson> i've still got no idea what it was really asking me to do though ;)
<mvo> mpt: how about? software-item:
<mvo>  A package or a application. A application belongs into
<mvo>  exactly one package. If a search matches a application
<mvo>  and the package of this application only the application
<mvo>  is displayed in the search result.
<Laney> an application isn't it?
<mpt> mvo, maybe, but it's not just about search results
<mvo> mpt: hm, so "System package/Net" will not show firefox?
<mvo> mpt: or "System Package/Python" will not show python-wxtools
<mvo> mpt: and only "Editra" and "PyShell" (the two apps that python-wxtools ships?
<mpt> mvo, correct
<mpt> mvo, but if you search for "python-wxtools" you would get back those two results
<mpt> mvo, I don't know what you mean by "Net" there
<mvo> mpt: "net" as a sub-section, its just a place holder
<mpt> ok
<mvo> mpt: I'm not sure its useful to de-duplicate it in the system tools category. if a user goes there, he expects (I assume) to see all package. I'm all in favor for de-duplication on searches
<mvo> mpt: but if the user wants to browse a category in system packages, why should we hide something from him? he made the choice to go into this territory
<mpt> mvo, we're not hiding it, it's right there in the "Developer Tools" department
<mpt> mvo, "Tech Stuff" is not a place for every item, it's a place for those items that don't have a better home to go to
<mvo> its a different approach of looking for items, I do think its "hidding" because its information that is not available to the user (a package entry)
<mvo> even if he search he will only find apps, never the package
<mpt> <mpt> mvo, and then I'd clarify that the searchable text even for an application should include its package name
<mvo> in the case of "python-wxtools" he will not be able to find the package, only the apps that are part of the package
<mpt> right
<mvo> mpt: please do not quote stuff that I already read, my point is a different one
<mpt> ok, sorry I didn't understand you then
<mpt> Remember we talked about working on ways of pulling things out of that department
<mpt> e.g. fonts
<mpt> which would mean they didn't appear in there any more, they appeared somewhere better
<mpt> e.g. Graphics > Fonts
<mpt> mvo, do you know how many packages there are that contain multiple applications?
<mpt> in Main and Universe
<mvo> I guess it partly depends on what tech stuff should mean. during the uds discussion it was said that its the "System package" place. if its the system package place  I think people expect to find the system package there
<mvo> if its not that, but just "other" with a new name, then that is different
<mvo> *grumpf* disconnected
<mvo> mpt: did you save anything after "<mpt> ok, sorry I didn't understand you then" ?
<mpt> (pasted)
<mvo> thanks
<mpt> mvo, if we showed every package in there, I don't think we could reasonably call it "System Packages" (or "Tech Stuff", for that matter), because gnome-games would be in there
<mpt> So either it's "All Packages", or as you say, it's a souped-up "Other"
<seb128> asac, do we need your gtk change to hide this warning in lucid?
<mpt> The way I imagined it was, items appear only in one department (and one subsection) unless the maintainer specifically provides a secondary department(+subsection)
<mpt> bbiab, meeting
<mvo_> sorry, something is not right with my network today
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<rickspencer3> pitti, does the dx team have a burn down charts set up?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<fagan> morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> hi fagan
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you were looking at some seahorse crash on session closing IIRC?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the seahorse-agent crash with a gazillion duplicates?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that one is fixed in karmic-proposed now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is bug #439446 the same one?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439446 in seahorse "seahorse-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in dbus_watch_handle()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439446
<chrisccoulson> that looks like a different bug
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> that one has some 25 duplicates
<seb128> I'm cleaning those now
<seb128> seems also a crash at session closing
<chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly. people get confused with those because they get the crash report when they log in
<seb128> we should have a crash timestamp info clearly noted in the bug
<seb128> to compare to the bug report time
<rickspencer3> rickspencer3, ping
<seb128> rickspencer3, you are talking to yourself now?
<rickspencer3> seb128, kind of
<rickspencer3> I thought I was getting some serious irc lag, butt
<rickspencer3> now i know that I am ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ok, time to be brave and try that glib 2.23.0
<seb128> if I don't come back that doesn't work great
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - success? :)
<seb128> yes!
<seb128> let's get the crack in lucid ;-)
<rickspencer3> looks like glib 2.23.0 worked ok
<djsiegel1> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: what's hot and new about it?
<pitti> hey djsiegel1
<djsiegel1> sorry if those round-1 paper cuts were unexpected. We worked out at UDS that paper cuts with patches should be assigned to canonical-desktop-team, should we not do that?
<asac> seb128: from what i see yes.
<asac> we can drop it and file a RC bug to readd if nothing changes
<djsiegel1> pitti: ^^
<pitti> djsiegel1: if they were sent upstream, and have a patch, then please subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<pitti> which will also end up as being done by desktop team, but in a different context
<djsiegel1> ok
<pitti> djsiegel1: I just reverted the flux from this morning, since few, if any, of them had applicable patches, and no rationale
<Laney> it seems to me that this paper cut pipeline emphasises distro patching over upstreaming
<djsiegel1> Laney: yes it does
<djsiegel1> we did the opposite last cycle
<djsiegel1> and 15 paper cuts with patches rotted on the vine upstream
<djsiegel1> so we are trying distro-first this time
<djsiegel1> or, both simultaneously, rather
<pitti> well, we will not apply things like string changes
<pitti> unless they are also committed/accepted upstream
<djsiegel1> Hmm
<djsiegel1> ok
<pitti> bug fixes are okay, of course, they just need to be submitted, but not accepted
<djsiegel1> Just because string changes are harder to apply?
<pitti> string changes are a bit special in that regard (for translation issues)
<djsiegel1> ok
<pitti> applying them is easy, but as soon as you do, you break all translations
<Laney> I wonder if you could get upstreams on board for "paper cut days", like hug days but for patching
<djsiegel1> Laney: interesting
<Tm_T> Laney: why not
<Laney> real-time feedback might make everyone more happy
<seb128> asac, it's the only diff we have over debian
<seb128> asac, not being able to sync sucks
<seb128> asac, I will drop it and reopen the lucid task for the bug I think
<seb128> ok with you?
<seb128> we can re-add the delta later in the cycle
<seb128> but meanwhile we would be able to sync
<asac> ack
<seb128> cool, thanks
<pitti> seb128: the assert patch?
<pitti> seb128: sure, we don't even collect apport reports right now
<seb128> pitti, no, the sru to drop the xid warning
<seb128> pitti, speaking about gtk
<seb128> pitti, the glib change I'm pushing upstream so we can sync next version ;-) though the ping-pong is on your side now, desrt commented
<pitti> right, saw it
<rickspencer3> hi all, desktop team meeting in 1 minute
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine waves
 * ArneGoetje waves
 * bryce waves
<seb128> hey
<tkamppeter> hi
 * tseliot waves++
<pitti> o/
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryce ccheney kenvandine pitti seb128 Riddell tkamppeter tseliot
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-01
<rickspencer3> most of the meeting will be for pitti and seb128 but I have some managery announcements to get out of the way
 * rickspencer3 copies and pastes from wiki
<rickspencer3> Welcome back tselliot here on OEM team rotation
<rickspencer3>     * bryce will be his "buddy"
<rickspencer3>     * will work on xorg drivers and packaging gnome initially
 * rickspencer3 hiya tseliot it's great to have you back
 * pitti hugs tseliot
<seb128> tseliot, welcome!
<tseliot> it's great to work with all of you again
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> we should have a call with pitti and bryce to discuss your work for the desktop team in Lucid
<pitti> my nvidia card is fail plz halp
<kenvandine> hehe
<tseliot> hehe ok
<rickspencer3> I remember meeting tseliot at my first UDS
<rickspencer3> he had the best sessions, and he didn't even work at Canonical then
<pitti> too bad that you couldn't come this time
<rickspencer3> so the OEM rotation means that robert_ancell will be with the OEM team
<rickspencer3> for Lucid
<tseliot> pitti: yes, I'll try to make up for it by attending the sprint
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> tseliot: you have to cook pasta
<rickspencer3> hehe
<kenvandine> yum
<tseliot> pitti: hehe, actually I'm better at eating pasta
<rickspencer3> okay, we'lll set up a call
<dobey> hehe
<rickspencer3> which brings up ...
<tseliot> good
<rickspencer3> 1-1 calls: please set these up with me if they are not on your calendar
<dobey> yeah, i was wondering where tseliot was in Dallas
<tseliot> ;)
<rickspencer3> I noticed that a lot of the 1-1 calls have fallen off my calendar, so tseliot and anyone who doesn't seem to have one, please pick a time that is good for you and schedule that
<rickspencer3> ok, next
<rickspencer3> # UNE and didrocks: UNE will be moved to desktop team, and didrocks will be the maintainer
<rickspencer3> not sure everyone is aware of this change, so thought I should bring it up here
<bryce> welcome to the team tseliot!
<tseliot> rickspencer3: ok, I'll send you an email
<tseliot> bryce: thanks
 * ccheney is here
<seb128> didrocks, congrats again ;-)
 * ccheney didn't realize the meeting changed times to 16:20
<rickspencer3> UNE is Ubuntu Netbook Edition (was Ubuntu Netbook Remix)
<seb128> ccheney, it didn't
<seb128> it started at :30
<tseliot> didrocks: congrats
<ccheney> hmm my system clock is broken then :(
<rickspencer3> ccheney is in a space ship traveling at a very high speed
<ccheney> wow my system is a full 10m behind
<tseliot> :-D
<rickspencer3> okay, so anyway, didrocks will be joining the desktop team focused on UNE
<rickspencer3> we won't refuse any gnome packaging that he may do to help seb128, though
<rickspencer3> okay, almost done with the boring manager stuff
<rickspencer3> # receipts and robert_ancell's scanning app: expenses coming up, please give robert's app a try and file bugs
<seb128> hehehe :-)
<rickspencer3> robert has put together a sweet and simple scanning tool
<seb128> doh, I already did those
<rickspencer3> with expenses coming up, it seems a good chance to try it out
<rickspencer3> tell your friends
<tseliot> where can I find this tool?
<rickspencer3> help robert out!
<seb128> I will find something else to try it anyway ;-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, we do we find it?
<rickspencer3> tseliot, good question
<seb128> we->where
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to track down robert's scanning tool
<rickspencer3> I assumed it
<pitti> I'll try it, I archive all my snail mail with it
<and471> jono, hi
<rickspencer3> s in his ppa, but not 100% sure
<kenvandine> lp:simple-scan
<and471> jono, I see on the ubuntu wiki you have added ##BEGINLERNID
<kenvandine> hopefully in a ppa too
<seb128> kenvandine, we want ppa
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/ppa
<rickspencer3> and471,  hiya, we're having our team meeting atm
<and471> jono, however I believe we can do it a simpler way
<pitti> it's there
<and471> rickspencer3, sorry
<rickspencer3> and471, feel free to hang out, we'll be done soon
<rickspencer3> and471,  no apologies necessary, happens all the time
<rickspencer3> ok, that's the boring managery announcements
<rickspencer3> assuming there are no questions
 * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> so, let's look at the alpha-2 BPs
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-lucid-unr-session has no work items
<pitti> didrocks: I know that you are not yet on duty
<pitti> do you want to set them up yourself, or  want someone to help with that?
<rickspencer3> pitti, I can get that one statred
<rickspencer3> also I was thinking we would not do anything there in a2, since didrocks won't be started yet
<rickspencer3> is that okay?
<pitti> WFM
<seb128> I can as well, I was initially drafter
<pitti> it's not critical for alpha-2 anyway, it's not a very intrusive change wrt. to other parts of the distro
<seb128> I just handed it to didrocks since he started on the wikipage before me
<rickspencer3> ACTION: seb128 to add initial work items to UNR session spec
<pitti> moved to beta-1 now
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-lucid-powermanagement-tweaks has no work items
<pitti> that's half my fault
<pitti> I pinged Michael Frey again, he'll do the initial drafting now
<rickspencer3> who's is the other half? (expect it is me)
<pitti> and then I'll review and add WIs
<rickspencer3> pitti, again, let's move that to a3?
<pitti> rickspencer3: just that you are too gentle with your whip :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'd like that to be in a2, since it does have intrusive changes
<pitti> I just need to follow up on that
<pitti> so this was by and large just a FYI
<pitti> the others all have WIs
<pitti> let's do a quick run-through and check for problems
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-halsectomy
<pitti> this is well underway
<pitti> bryce: what's your plan wrt. merging 1.7.1 from experimental?
<pitti> since dropping hal from the default install will likely cause some regressions, it would be great to see that land soon
<pitti> I already fixed g-p-m, but I'm sure that there are less visible ones
<pitti> I'll talk to Keybuk about updating udev to latest upstream trunk, so that we have the building blocks
<pitti> but, I have run my desktop with hal purged since Friday, works well \o/
<pitti> (should buy us some ~ 1.5 seconds startup speed)
<tseliot> \o/
<bryce> pitti, I need to check with timo but as soon as debian feels it is good to go we should pull it in
<seb128> 1.5 seconds for early boot and xorg right?
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<seb128> no impact on desktop there?
<bryce> I need to find out if timo intends to do that or if I should.  But I hope to have it in this week
<seb128> still good news ;-)
<pitti> bryce: that would be great
<pitti> otherwise this seems well underway and realisticc
<bryce> pitti, was that "reduced to 1.5 sec" or "reduced by 1.5 sec"?
<pitti> (modulo insurmountable regressions with wacom, of cousre)
<pitti> bryce: "by"
<bryce> pitti, from what approximately?
<pitti> it's not _that_ bad :)
<pitti> bryce: I'm not sure
<pitti> 10ish
<bryce> on my laptop (with SSD) it takes ~2 sec
<pitti> (that's grub->gdm)
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps
<pitti> this seems simple
<pitti> would be great if the seeds could be changed soon for gnome-games
<pitti> otherwise we need someone to do a MIR for "seed" (two new games pull it in)
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ would be a task for robert?
<rickspencer3> pitti, would it be reasonable to ask robert_ancell to do that
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> okay, gmta
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start
<rickspencer3> ACTION: robert_ancell to do mri for new games
<pitti> this is a killer
 * rickspencer3 looks meaningfully at kenvandine
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ this is currently targetted for a2, but it sounds like it'll take two manmonths to implement that all from reading the WIs
<pitti> how bad is it really?
<pitti> should we spread it out a bit to move some bits to beta1?
<kenvandine> not that bad
<pitti> rickspencer3: s/mri/seed changes/
<kenvandine> i might end up defferring some to b1
<kenvandine> but with the couch stuff, it actually greatly simplifies quite a bit
<kenvandine> and much of that is done, but still experimental
<pitti> ok; let's keep it on the a2 radar for now, but please speak up early if it's getting late
<pitti> oh, good!
<kenvandine> will do
<rickspencer3> can we just move the least essential tasks to a3?
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-proprietary-drivers
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i kind of did
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> tseliot: are there any blockers for this?
<pitti> bryce, tseliot: and do we actually have a working nvidia driver for xorg 1.7/2.6.32, so that this can go forward and be tested?
<tseliot> pitti: I'm waiting for superm1 to review a patch of mine for DKMS
<tseliot> pitti: furthermore I've been busy with plymouth but I should be able to work on that soon
<bryce> pitti, I believe the currently released one works with 1.7
<pitti> nice
 * tseliot nods
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdm-custom-greeter-support
<didrocks> pitti: seb128 : rickspencer3 : o/ and sorry for disturbing (just back home) I'm adding WI to the unr spec this evening (was thinking that the spec has to be approved first)
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ can you handle that in the eastern edition?
<pitti> didrocks: merci! (no, it won't get approved before  it has WIs :) )
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-likewise-open-migration
<rickspencer3> pitti, could you please add comments to the white board wrt any issues that you see with the spec?
<pitti> this is basically blocked on getting new packages from upstream; nothing to discuss from my side, unless there are questions?
<pitti> rickspencer3: no technical ones, just "does robert have time to do it?"
<rickspencer3> ah
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-triaging-diagnosis
<pitti> bryce: any blockers for that?
<pitti> and do you think it's a realistic target for a2?
<pitti> (42 work items..)
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to confirm robert_ancell commitment to GDM/GDM Greeter refactor
<bryce> pitti, manpower mainly
<bryce> pitti, well at least 50% of that can (and should) be done by a2
<pitti> it seems that it'd be half as useful to do 50% of them, so it's still good to start it early
<pitti> great
<pitti> so, I think we are well on track
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-empathy-indicator
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> bryce, can we move the other 50% out of the a2 work item list?
<pitti> kenvandine: so, from what I understand, this will be completely new code, and a new daemon, right?
<kenvandine> pitti, did you read my response?
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> kenvandine: I did
<pitti> kenvandine: (no python please :) )
<bryce> rickspencer3, how?
<kenvandine> easiest way to maintain it imho
<kenvandine> vala!
<pitti> kenvandine: FYI, I have example vala d-bus code, if you need it
<kenvandine> pitti, do share
<kenvandine> docs are weak :)
<pitti> kenvandine: do you think you can squeeze it into your already full schedule, or should we postpone some social-from-start issues?
<kenvandine> i will move some social stuff
<pitti> kenvandine: http://www.piware.de/2009/11/hello-dbus-in-vala/ (I have some more, too)
<kenvandine> thx
<pitti> any other questions/
<pitti> ?
<rickspencer3> not a question, but a point I would like to make
<rickspencer3> I would *much* rather pull things from a3 into a2
<rickspencer3> rather than postpone things from a2
<rickspencer3> so I expect everyone to do a reasonable job scoping their a2 work, and I consider "less is more" wrt a2 commitments
<pitti> sure, it doesn't mean that you mustn't work on post-alpha2 work items :)
<rickspencer3> exactly
<rickspencer3> so my feedback is that it's better to be conservative in your estimates about what you can deliver in a2
<rickspencer3> </soapbox>
<pitti> mic back to rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> pitti, thanks for doing a incredible job getting us organized before, during, and after UDS
<rickspencer3> and the burndown charts are amazing
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti bows
<bryce> rickspencer3, ok done
<tseliot> burndown charts?
<pitti> I'll adjust the trend lines on Thursday, when we are at the BP definition deadline
<rickspencer3> ah, poor tseliot, a burndown chart newbie
<pitti> tseliot: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<pitti> tseliot: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html
<pitti> tseliot: check out the previous one (http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html) for the full idea
<tseliot> ok, thanks
<rickspencer3> tseliot, we can talk on the phone, it's basically the platform team way to track status of work done compared to commitments
<rickspencer3> thanks again pitti
<pitti> tseliot: also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto has some docs
<tseliot> ok
 * rickspencer3 hands mic to seb128
<seb128> alright
<seb128> so as everybody probably knows by now we have pretty agressive requirements about boot speed in lucid
<seb128> I've started look at desktop login this week
<seb128> our budget for desktop is around 4 seconds
<seb128> current chart is http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091201-1.png
<seb128> (I will copy regular charts from the reference box on this webspace for those interested in that)
<seb128> right now we are around 3 times slower than we ough to be
<seb128> ie there is quite some hard work to put there and we might need to tweak our default config and selection
<seb128> I would like to discuss changing the list of default applet for this cycle
<pitti> so unless it's not too much work for speeding up compiz (static linking, drop plugins), the fallback is metacity by default, right?
<pitti> I think that'd be acceptable
<seb128> yes
<pitti> (unlike the "don't render the desktop" one for nautilus)
<seb128> but even without compiz and without nautilus and without xsession.d
<pitti> ^ I'd really like to avoid that
<seb128> we still use some 8 seconds now
 * rickspencer3 agrees with pitti and seb128 wrt metacity be default
<seb128> so that's not enough to rely on it
<rickspencer3> seb128,  what does it mean "without nautilus"?
<seb128> we still need to make progress there
<pitti> no, just for prioritization
<seb128> rickspencer3, I removed it from the session
<pitti> we should start with panel, applets, and nautilus
<seb128> no nautilus started at all
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> so it doesn't start until you pick somehting from places, for example?
<seb128> compiz is a would be nice item but doesn't seem the higher priority
<pitti> seb128: also, you have a g-s patch to start everything in parallel, no?
<seb128> we have fallback plan there
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> I've included some details and comment on the wiki
<seb128> I will try to do that every week with my activity report
<seb128> starting everything in parallel makes small difference
<seb128> we replace delay by io and cpu bounding
<pitti> but gives us more potential for optimization
<seb128> yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson has been looking at gnome-session
<pitti> if panel starts 5 seconds in, we can speed it up as we like and still break the bar
<seb128> and gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> there is some wins to do there too
<seb128> starting dkpower later
<seb128> he will try to optimize gconf reading too
<pitti> as a "first against the wall" thing, can we drop some applets? -> proposal: "show desktop", trash, firefox/help launchers
<seb128> that's a summary of what we did this week
<seb128> I would like to discuss the applet selection
<seb128> and maybe changing to 1 gnome-panel bar
<pitti> yay
 * rickspencer3 agrees with dropping all of pittis list
<seb128> 1 or 2 bars doesn't make a real speed change
 * tseliot uses Docky
<seb128> but if we reduce applets we could as well fit on one
 * pitti always disables the bottom bar, not for speed, but for screen real estate reasons
<seb128> same here
<rickspencer3> pitti, what do you do for window switching?
<seb128> I agree with pitti's list
<seb128> trash costs 0.5 seconds right now
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's in my top panel
<seb128> the messaging applet costs 0.5 seconds too
<seb128> but I guess we can't go around this one
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<seb128> we can try pushing dxteam to optimize things though
<rickspencer3> that's too long
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, any thoughts on loading the MI?
<pitti> rickspencer3: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/photos/pitti-virtual-desktop.png
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, no...
<kenvandine> it starts a bunch of daemons
<pitti> (it's  from intrepid or so)
<kenvandine> maybe look at how that is being done
<pitti> indeed all the MI stuff is exceptionally resource intense, with many d-bus services launched, etc.
<rickspencer3> does it make sense to start all the daemons at startup?
<kenvandine> it would be reasonable to get dx to review that
<pitti> there is 6 (!) indicator related processes
<seb128> I get between 0.5 and 0.8 second win on the test box without the message indicator
<rickspencer3> I mean, what can they be listening for if you haven't actually started any apps yet?
<seb128> so there is for sure place for doing better
<seb128> it's some 15% of the login budget right now
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yeah
<pitti> we could perhaps at least defer it
<ccheney> oh yea if anyone else needs 10v for this testing they might want to get them soon, i have a feeling they will be EOLd around jan 7
<kenvandine> make it on demand
<pitti> kenvandine: I guess the daemons listen to some signals, so that they can't be dbus activated when you e. g. open empathy or evo?
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, can you take the action to investigate defering startup of MM related daemons?
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed has a detailed list of work items
<seb128> if somebody wants to claim some please do
<bryce> ccheney, sucks!  Hope they have something similar to replace it.
<pitti> kenvandine: there might be a possibility of one process listening to all the signals, and then start the other daemons on demand?
<seb128> put your [name] on the line
<rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to investigate deferring startup time of MM
<ccheney> bryce: i don't know for certain, but pine trail is supposed to be out on that day so very likely will be update to it
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<pitti> so, if we removed above applets, nobody would cry out?
<seb128> going back to the applets list
<seb128> should we talk to design team?
<rickspencer3> seb128, nah
<kenvandine> seb128, mind if i add a work item for the indicator services?
<seb128> pitti, I'm not sure about the launchers
<pitti> also, removing these launchers is a long-term goal anyway, wasn't it?
<seb128> I'm all for droping the show desktop and trash ones
<rickspencer3> seb128, tbh. I've wanted to get rid of the ff and help launchers anyway
<seb128> kenvandine, oh, please do!
<pitti> ^ those two sound good indeed
<tseliot> bryce: the mini 12 should be available sooner or later
<seb128> ok
<seb128> should be try to go on one bar then?
<pitti> tseliot: does that boot any faster? :-)
<seb128> in which case do we want to change the clock applet to just do time by default?
<seb128> and not date
<pitti> seb128: oh, please
<seb128> I'm for keeping the weather though
<tseliot> pitti: I don't have it yet. Here's an article about it: http://apcmag.com/scoop_we_review_the_inspiron_mini_12__dells_supersized_yet_superslim_12_inch_netbook.htm
<pitti> having the date is pretty silly; you get it when hovering over it, and it's the same all day :)
<pitti> tseliot: j/k
<tseliot> aah
<seb128> ok
 * ccheney thinks the weather is useless after the gweather change last cycle
 * ccheney just uses a FF weather applet
<rickspencer3> seb128, would it speed up desktop time to just load the clock and no evo calendar, weather, etc...?
<seb128> so one bar, no launcher and tasks list where those are now, no show desktop, no trash, only time for the clock
<pitti> it's not important enough for me to see all the time, but that's just me
 * pitti has a window
<pitti> seb128: and no seconds either
<seb128> right, that's not on now
<seb128> I didn't plan to change that ;-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, I'm not sure, but I will keep doing charts next week and have those for next meeting
<seb128> let's do what I said as a first step
<seb128> and see for changes over that in next meeting?
<pitti> having an extra 25 pixels is a big win by itself
<pitti> seb128: sounds good
<seb128> we can still tweak some options it's early in the cycle
<seb128> anybody having other ideas about things we should change?
<pitti> seb128: we'd move the work area switcher to the top bar, too?
<seb128> I think we should also try to document how we do this work
<seb128> our metrics, tools, etc
<rickspencer3> seb128, does wallpaper have an impact?
<ccheney> tseliot: mini 12 doesn't work with current ubuntu afaik, has gma500 (ugh)
<pitti> I'm also working on app menu caching right now
<rickspencer3> other theme stuff?
<seb128> pitti, yes, or do you think we should keep the second bar because it's too much?
<pitti> seb128: I propose that we dedicate this week to panel (applets, caching), and then revisit next week
<seb128> rickspencer3, theme and wallpaper have an impact yes
<seb128> I didn't measure how much changing the image format impacts on the loading though
<pitti> seb128: no, as I said I'm all for removing the second bar
<seb128> would be worth testing if somebody wants to do it
<ccheney> if we need more pixels getting rid of the username on right could help a lot
<rickspencer3> so simple one color picture for wallpaper, and fast loading theme by default?
<pitti> rickspencer3: I guess we won't get that past design
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, remember there are plans for that applet
<seb128> I've the feeling design team will not like those suggestions ;-)
<tseliot> ccheney: it's not the same mini 12 I was talking about. I picked up the wrong link
<ccheney> tseliot: ok
<rickspencer3> well, we should start with getting the desktop to load within budget
<rickspencer3> then we can work on making exceptions, etc...
<pitti> /sys/class/dmi/id/sys_vendor == "Dell" -> no background :)
<rickspencer3> but design should work within the same constraints that we do
<kenvandine> seb128, maybe set group when space is limited in the window list would be a good default for a single panel
<seb128> if user == keybuk, no background? ;-)
<pitti> kenvandine: do you think we can drop the u1 applet by next week?
<kenvandine> no
<didrocks> seb128: ahah
<kenvandine> well... maybe for lucid... i is early :)
<kenvandine> s.i/it
<kenvandine> s/i/it
<seb128> rickspencer3, I will measure background and theme impact for next week
<seb128> trying different formats and plain color
<rickspencer3> k
<seb128> so we can know how much it costs and if it's worth
<seb128> enough on the topic it's almost time
<seb128> so just to summarize
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed has work items
<seb128> feel free to grab or add some there
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/ has charts
<seb128> I can test on a mini10v so if you want to get changes tested let me know
<pitti> so let's do the panel related changes this week
<seb128> thanks everybody for helping there ;-)
<seb128> I will do the gnome-panel changes this week
<pitti> seb128: for next week, it would be great if you could do one with metacity, and the panel changes?
<seb128> and measure impact from other applets, theme, background
<pitti> (I hope I can get the caching in this week)
<seb128> sure
 * kenvandine plans to upgrade to lucid this afternoon
<seb128> I've been doing something similar this morning
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks, great job!
 * pitti hugs seb128 for coordinating this and his great work
<seb128> it was around 9 seconds
<seb128> but with the non optimized gnome-session
<seb128> so I guess we would be around 8 seconds on the optimized one
 * seb128 hugs pitti and rickspencer3
<seb128> thanks guys
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<pitti> . o O { gvfs-trash, WTH }
<pitti> that belongs started on demand..
<seb128> pitti, trash applet?
<pitti> seb128: if the applet is gone, so is this?
<seb128> pitti, it's delayed until nautilus query for it
<pitti> zap it! zap it!
<pitti> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<bryce> sorry, xchat seems to have frozen the last 10 min
<bryce> <bryce> seb128, btw the moblin patches are now in lucid.  dunno if they helped or if so by how much, but I do notice xkbcomp absent on your chart so guess that's some progress
<bryce>  seb128, fastest I've gotten X on my hardware is 2 sec, about the same as you
<bryce>  moblin says they got it to 1 sec, but dunno how (jbarnes wasn't sure either; maybe kernel stuff)
<rickspencer3> bryce, in case you were caught in the same time warp as ccheney, it's 9:34am our time (unless I am also in a time warp)
<pitti> bryce: is that with udev already? or hal?
<bryce> pitti, nope neither
<seb128> bryce, yes, your changes won us almost 1 second, thanks ;-)
<pitti> bryce: heh, xorg.conf?
<rickspencer3> bryce, has keybuk confirmed that mobile *really* got x to start in 1 second?
<bryce> pitti, don't think so
<rickspencer3> like, is that from a boot chart that we made, or is this just something they told us?
<pitti> bryce: no input devices at all then? :)
<ccheney> iirc he said he had and that it was something in the binary itself
<bryce> rickspencer3, it is from what they told us
<rickspencer3> ok
<ccheney> but i am a bit fuzzy on the details
<bryce> rickspencer3, (according to keybuk)
<rickspencer3> oops, ok, I'll ask him later
<bryce> pitti, I mean "without the hal removal changes"
<pitti> bryce: ah, ok; perhaps that'll win another .1 seconds
<seb128> oh
<seb128> dropping compiz-fusion-plugins-extra wins 0.5 seconds
<seb128> we don't use it anyway
<seb128> so it should go to universe soon
<tseliot> bryce: are you using the kernel patches that I recommended already (to reduce X startup time)?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I think that's a "no other business"
<rickspencer3> lol
<seb128> ie those are after meeting discussions
<rickspencer3> okay then
<seb128> (in case you want to official wrap the meeting now)
<rickspencer3> thanks all
<seb128> thanks rickspencer3
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<bryce> tseliot, no this was stock lucid kernel; I was testing the patches you flagged on the X.org side
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<bryce> thanks
<tseliot> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<ccheney> thanks
<tseliot> bryce: oh, those patches are from Moblin and should help
<tseliot> I'll bug apw about them
<bryce> tseliot, great
<didrocks> pitti: about your second remark on the une whiteboard: that can be good, yes, but I prefer if we can have only one package and not "one package if you want only UNE" and another one if you want ubuntu-desktop + UNE. The other solution (appart using xession.d is) is to patch gconfd itself to add /var/lib/${GDMSESSION}.defaults.
<pitti> didrocks: one package> so do I :) but right now the spec has about three different package names
<pitti> didrocks: ${GDMSESSION}.defaults -> hah, nice trick; please add to whiteboard
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so you prefer patching gconf than using xsession.d (I do not have any strong opinion)?
<pitti> didrocks: what would the xsession.d script do?
<pitti> didrocks: the spec made it sound like "grep the session from xsession.d/*
<didrocks> pitti: oh no, it was about exporting ENV_DEFAULTS_PATH used in /etc/gconf/2/path regarding GDMSESSION value
<pitti> didrocks: ah, *phew*; that sounds doable as well; can you please clarify this in the spec?
<didrocks> pitti: sure
<pitti> merci
<didrocks> pitti: in which spec is "seeding gdm with a default configuration in /etc/gdm/custom.conf" WI, in gdmsetup one? As I depend on this, I can try to give an hand there next week (now that the Ubuntu Party in Paris is finished, I'll have more time once debriefed ;)).
<seb128> didrocks, how was the party btw?
<didrocks> seb128: nice, but huge and tiring (http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Ubuntu-Party-Paris-%3A-5-000-visitors)
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> you keep doing high scores ;-)
<didrocks> yes, but the walls can't be extended forever :-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: using a colored background rather than an image wins another 0.5 seconds
<rickspencer3> nice
<didrocks> I guess dxteam will really don't like that :-)
<mpt> didrocks, the Design team probably cares more :-)
 * mpt waves to mat_t 
<rickspencer3> well, we can't have our cake and eat it to
<rickspencer3> we have a 4 second budget
<rickspencer3> and since we can't warp space time, we'll have to make some sacrifices to meet the budget
<kenvandine> seb128, what about sizing of the background image? is the time spent scaling it?
<kenvandine> although we went through this already in xsplash
<pitti> didrocks: sorry, was on phone
<pitti> didrocks: hm, that's only in a bug report so far, let me find it
<didrocks> pitti: bug #403291 ?
<pitti> didrocks: exactly
<didrocks> pitti: I can take this task too and forget about adding a temporary dummy session package, ok?
<seb128> kenvandine, i've not tried that yet, any suggestion on what to change for the image?
<pitti> didrocks: sweet, thanks!
<kenvandine> well for a test, resize the image to the same size as your resolution
<seb128> Amaranth, there?
<rickspencer3> ccheney, any other plans for OOo aside from shipping 3.2.1?
<rickspencer3> what about the split builds, translations, etc...?
<seb128> pitti, no compiz + gnome-panel changes + background color = 9.6 seconds
<seb128> compared to 12.9 seconds now
<pitti> ugh
<pitti> great!
<seb128> ugh or great?
<pitti> at first I misread
<seb128> oh, ok ;-)
<pitti> but a 3.2 second saving is a huge step already
<seb128> right
<pitti> that's without the "start everythign at once" yet, right?
<seb128> and that's using gnome-session sleeping too much
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> I guess we would be down to 7 seconds otherwise
<seb128> that means we cut some stuff and still have 3 seconds to win
<seb128> but 3 seconds seem doable
<pitti> /msg seb128 let's take out the sleep(5) at the very end, to show that you are a super-hero once again :)
<seb128> then we can try to get back what we did cut
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<chrisccoulson> i just wish gconf was a little faster
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's reading tons of XML..
<pitti> quick, someone write a gconf sqlite backend!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. that's the longest delay in gnome-session before it starts anything
<seb128> things will be better when we get dconf
<seb128> but that's for lucid+1
<chrisccoulson> my gnome-session changes work around that, but just postpone it to g-s-d now
 * kenvandine reboots after the upgrade to lucid 
<seb128> kenvandine, good luck!
<chrisccoulson> gconf really isn't a nice package to try and figure out :-/
<RenatoSilva> anyone else got his GDM broken after last update in package gdm? here I've got face browser again
<seb128> what distribution version?
<RenatoSilva> Karmic
<seb128> not known no
<seb128> how did you change the setting?
<RenatoSilva> gdm theme was changed too, I had changed it previously with some enigmatic procedure
<seb128> so maybe the enigmatic procedure was not correct way to do that
<RenatoSilva> something more than sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gnome-appearance-properties
<RenatoSilva> seb128: or maybe it is easy to write bad software
<RenatoSilva> for example, why would this not work as it doesn't in fact? sudo -u gdm gnome-appearance-properties
<seb128> RenatoSilva, ubuntu is not writing those software and I'm not interested to troll, goodbye
<seb128> urg
<seb128> xsplash costs some 0.8 seconds at login
<seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: ^
<rickspencer3> seb128, this is post gdm?
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, that's the gdm to desktop animation
<RenatoSilva> anyone else?
 * rickspencer3 shoots xsplash in head
<chrisccoulson> we should just ditch the panel, filemanager and desktop wallpaper completely, and make the default session just a xterm ;)
<RenatoSilva> how to restore gdm theme after a breaking pakcage update (last update of 'gdm')?
<mpt> mvo_, I've completed the specification of department and subsection screens: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#department
<RenatoSilva> and how to deactivate again the face browser (also broken)
<chrisccoulson> RenatoSilva, #ubuntu for support
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, += xsplash after login
<RenatoSilva> chrisccoulson: ok, but please stop annoying users with broken updates, I have more useful things to do other than being scared of updating my system, as I am now
<chrisccoulson> one thing i noticed with xsplash is that you have to wait 10 seconds for it to disappear when loading the xterm session, as it doesn't get the signals from gnome-panel and nautilus
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, what did i do there?
<mat_t> rickspencer3: we're thinking about having a lot smaller image that sits in the middle, rather than a huge fullscreen one that has to be scaled down
<rickspencer3> mat_t, how about no image?
<rickspencer3> just a color
<rickspencer3> seems about the only choice to be made atm
<mat_t> rickspencer3: I think 0.5s is not worth it
<rickspencer3> mat_t, we have a 4 second budget
<rickspencer3> so it's not really a choice to be made
<rickspencer3> unless you can get the budget changed
<mat_t> I'll see what I can do :)
<chrisccoulson> has anyone looked at how that 0.5 seconds is broken down?
<chrisccoulson> ie, is it reading it from the disk, or scaling it, or X protocol calls?
<chrisccoulson> or something else?
<mat_t> chrisccoulson: probably question to bratsche ^
<chrisccoulson> mat_t - yeah, possibly. i wasn't sure whether anyone already figured it out
 * mat_t hopes someone did
<bratsche> 0.5s for xsplash?
<bratsche> What's the question exactly?
<mat_t> bratsche: what is 0.5 made of? Scaling? Loading? Drawing?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: no, sorry was at lunch at the time
<chrisccoulson> mat_t - oh, we're talking about xsplash and not the desktop background?
 * chrisccoulson is confused
<bratsche> I never really made notes of that.  Keybuk said xsplash was doing fine and fit in its budget, so I didn't spend any further time on it.
<bratsche> If that's not the case then let me know, but he told me it was not exceeding its budget.
<mat_t> rickspencer3: ^
<kenvandine> mat_t, it wasn't xsplash
<kenvandine> it was the desktop wallpaper loading
<kenvandine> using a color with no image saves 0.5s
<mat_t> kenvandine: desktop wallpaper? You mean the image that we use as a boot and gdm bg?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> desktop
 * mat_t is confused
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> mat_t, or did you start off on your own here? i thought you started to respond to our discussion about desktop login
<kenvandine> we talked about image scaling and how xsplash does it
<mat_t> kenvandine: no, to the discussion about removing the bg that is loaded during boot
<kenvandine> i didn't see that discussion
<mat_t> :)
 * mat_t is un-confused
<kenvandine> sorry :)
<mat_t> ok, gotta run, catch you guys later
<mat_t> np :)
<mat_t> bye!
<seb128> kenvandine, chrisccoulson: 0.5 is for the background image
<seb128> xsplash takes some 0.8 seconds
<rickspencer3> seb128, is xsplash on our budget?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I'm only looking at desktop times there
<seb128> it's costing 0.8 seconds on gdm to desktop loading
<seb128> could be costing some extra time before
<pitti> seb128, rickspencer3: I'm not sure, how much of xsplash was going to be replace by plymouth?
<pitti> but probably not the part that covers the desktop while it's loading
<seb128> pitti, you can look to my bootcharts
<seb128> xsplash uses lot of cpu for a whole second
<seb128> I guess that's the animation
<pitti> yes, I guess that needs a lot
<seb128> bratsche, ^ any idea if xsplash could use less cpu in some way?
<kenvandine> maybe we could ease up on the animation?
<seb128> or change the bouncing bar for a spinning logo?
<kenvandine> yeah
<bryce> if (pciid != MINIV_PCIID) { xsplash(); }  ;-)
<seb128> the bar is skipping when the system is loaded anyway
<kenvandine> which would probably be less choppy anyway
<seb128> :-)
<bratsche> seb128: It could be animation, or it could be doing initial image loading and scaling?
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> the bootchart has quite some lines and not a colored rectangle there so I would say it's the animation
<kenvandine> it is taking a huge image and scaling it for the background
<kenvandine> but the background gets scaled early
<seb128> could we cache the scaled image?
<seb128> so it's scaled once
<seb128> and then we use the cache until the screen settings change
<bratsche> It's only scaled once already I think.
<seb128> ok, so that's not it
<seb128> it's the animation
<bratsche> I think we already realized that we need to rethink how the animation is done.  It seems like xsplash is being starved so it's not possible to animate this smoothly.
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's jumping a lot on io load
<seb128> or cpu load
<seb128> not sure which one in fact, it's just during busy time
<bratsche> All the disk IO is done early on, but we could look into how it's drawing.  I'm not sure off hand if it's using server-side pixmaps or not, this could help speed it up.
<bratsche> (maybe)
<seb128> that's worth trying if you have an idea how to test that easily
<seb128> I'm not sure if it's doing anything wrong now, I just know it costs non negligable time for login
<bratsche> Depends on when you need this done by.. right now I'm kind of busy trying to get decorations code finished up in time for gtk+ 2.20, and David is pushing me hard right now to start on the application indicator stuff ASAP.
<bratsche> Yeah, I understand.
<bratsche> Oh, actually I'm taking a look at throbber_frame_cb() right now and it looks terrible.  I'm embarrassed. :)
<bratsche> seb128: I'll cook up a patch for you tonight that will improve this.  If it's not good enough still then we can experiment with server-side pixmaps.
<seb128> bratsche, oh please don't spend over work hours for this there is no hurry
<seb128> the login target is for lucid
<seb128> and we want to be on the right track and have a good part done for end of january
<bratsche> Okay perfect.  I'll file a bug for myself right now though.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> having it looked at by mid-january would be nice though
<bratsche> What I'm thinking of doing now should be pretty simple to write.. maybe 30 mins.
<seb128> ok, so whenever you have a free slot will do
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<bratsche> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xsplash/+bug/491029
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 491029 in xsplash "Throbber sub-pixbufs should be pre-computed, not in throbber_frame_cb()" [Low,Triaged]
<seb128> bratsche, thanks
<Amaranth> seb128: dunno if it was mentioned earlier but using applications-merged to hide something from the menus depends on the item being in the menu you expect
<Amaranth> seb128: So if I use alacarte to move (copy, actually) gedit to the Programming menu your file in applications-merged won't hide it
<seb128> Amaranth, using a .desktop with the same name in local works there
<Amaranth> Sure
<Amaranth> I actually wrote to xdg-list about this back in May or so
<seb128> it was just a request for a custom image to have some entry not displayed by default
<seb128> so using local will do
<Amaranth> NoDisplay has two uses and can't fulfill both of them at the same time and none of the other ways of hiding something are reliable
<seb128> Amaranth, in this case NoDisplay is enough
<seb128> Amaranth, btw have you seen my comment about compiz extras?
<kklimonda> is there a full list of packages on live cd?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> in the directory where the cd isos are on the ftp for example you have the content of the disks
<Amaranth> seb128: yeah, we can get it moved out soon
<seb128> what is blocking you now?
<Amaranth> seb128: Did you see my idea about putting each plugin in a separate (binary) package?
<Amaranth> seb128: Doing the work :)
<Amaranth> iirc there are 3 places I have to make the change for the default plugins
<Amaranth> really want to get all that cleaned up too
<Amaranth> since we're going to be forcing our new defaults on users there is an opportunity to clean up some of the craziness in getting our defaults set (some had to be done with .gconf-defaults while some are patches to the xml files)
<kklimonda> seb128: so I can take a list of packages from alternate cd and assume that it's the same on live cd/
<kklimonda> thanks
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> Amaranth, got my question?
<Amaranth> <seb128> what is blocking you now?
<Amaranth> <Amaranth> seb128: Did you see my idea about putting each plugin in a separate (binary) package?
<Amaranth> <Amaranth> seb128: Doing the work :)
<Amaranth> <Amaranth> iirc there are 3 places I have to make the change for the default plugins
<Amaranth> <Amaranth> really want to get all that cleaned up too
<Amaranth> whoops, got too many lines
<seb128_> Amaranth, hum
<seb128_> splitting everything seems to be a lot of work and package index clutter no?
<seb128_> I though extras could be moved to universe now
<seb128_> the main ones can be splitted then
<seb128_> not sure if we should have selected and universe though
<seb128_> or having extra granularity
<seb128_> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128_, hey
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning! how are you?
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, do you know why gnome-games reverted to 2.28 in Lucid yesterday?
<seb128> it didn't?
<pitti> uh? no
<pitti>  1:2.29.3-0ubuntu1
<pitti>  is current
<robert_ancell> one of my uploads was marked as "rejected by archive administrator"
<robert_ancell> I uploaded that afterwards
<seb128> reason?
<robert_ancell> none given
<seb128> hum
<seb128> ask slangasek
<seb128> was there any binary change?
<robert_ancell> yes, it was the 2.29.2 release
<seb128> change in the binary packages?
<robert_ancell> change? the binaries were different to 2.29.1
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-games/1:2.29.3-0ubuntu1
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems that one got accepted
<seb128> could be that 2.29.2 binaries got outdated before the 2.29.3 ones got accepted
<robert_ancell> maybe it was some LP weirdness, it went down for maintenance about that time
<seb128> could be
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw when you resync on debian please use a version higher than debian
<robert_ancell> anyway, you guys will be happy, one of my OEM goals is "Assist OEM team in achieving boot time targets, especially related to desktop components "
<seb128> and also commit your changes to bzr ;-)
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> robert_ancell, that rocks
<robert_ancell> seb128, whoops, which package?  I meant to do that
<pitti> robert_ancell: \o/
<seb128> you should read my activity report
<seb128> and the meeting log from today
<seb128> we covered login speed quite a lot
<seb128> robert_ancell, file-roller
<seb128> you used -0ubuntu2
<seb128> and the bzr is outdated
<robert_ancell> can't wait until monday, get my new computer.  Finally will have some fast compiling :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you get to work on gdm too?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes
<seb128> ok, pretty good deal then ;-)
<pitti> almost as if he never left :-P
<seb128> nobody to annoy you about user complaining and bug triage
<seb128> and cool hacking ;-)
<robert_ancell> hehe
 * seb128 wants to go to oem
<robert_ancell> though it may be a lot of perfomance hacking which involves pulling out your hair in frustration :)
<ccheney> seb128: if you went to oem you would have to do both parts, heh :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't tell us
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell I guess you're the only one here for Eastern Edition?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso is moving house, I seem to recall
<robert_ancell> yeah, TheMuso is on holidayt
<seb128> when is your meeting?
<robert_ancell> my clock says it is now, depends on what timezone you are in :)
<seb128> oh good
 * robert_ancell reading meeting notes
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, I haven't gotten them all on there
<seb128> they should be on the irc log server
<rickspencer3> but there were a couple of things to go over with you
<Amaranth> seb128: Right, I want to split compiz-plugins and compiz-fusion-plugins-main so we don't have to have "universe" versions
<robert_ancell> (ominous music)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, lol, nothing like that ...
<rickspencer3> first:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdm-custom-greeter-support
<seb128> Amaranth, doesn't stop us to move extra to universe now though?
<Amaranth> no
<rickspencer3> we have that down for a2, but hard to say if you can manage that while on the OEM team
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, have a look at the xscreensaver packaging - it will be easier to sync with Debian
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I think I can commit to documenting what is there for a2, and the remaining components to come in later alphas
<rickspencer3> also, some gdm work items that I thought you might be able to help with here:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, do we have a requirement from any other teams who may want to make/modify greeters?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, not yet
 * rickspencer3 moves off a2 list
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, actually ... this is an intrusive change, so doing in a2 would be best
 * rickspencer3 takes finger off of trigger
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, oh and a clarification,  the a2 list is "must complete by a2", rather than "scheduled to complete by a2"
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, well, the first part is completely non-intrusive - it is just information on how to make a greeter in the current gdm
<rickspencer3> more like "committed to fix by a2"
<rickspencer3> but these two look a bit risky:
<rickspencer3> Simplify API:
<rickspencer3> Produce libgreeter:
<rickspencer3> in any case, I'
<rickspencer3> ll keep documentation on the a2 list and move the others off of it for now
<robert_ancell> yes
<rickspencer3> it's better to pull items from a3 into a2 rather than push items out of a2
<seb128> robert_ancell, speaking about gdm I'm not sure now if you said you would do the 2.29 update
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I was just going to clarify with you and pitti that we definitely would move to 2.29
<seb128> thanks
<robert_ancell> I'll do that today
<seb128> you rock
 * robert_ancell crosses the first item off his list for today
<pitti> robert_ancell: are there intrusive changes why we shouldn't?
<seb128> not so far
<seb128> upstream might land the multiseat changes this cycle
<seb128> but I don't think that's an issue
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so about the gdm items in desktop speed?
<rickspencer3> do you think you have bandwidth to help seb128 investigate those?
<seb128> (that's what I've read there)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I will say probably based on my OEM goals I got this morning
<rickspencer3> great
<Amaranth> That reminds me, has anyone done a test of compiz vs metacity recently to see what the difference in boot speed is?
<rickspencer3> last thing robert_ancell, where should folks get your scanner utility to help test it?
<seb128> Amaranth, yes, it's about 3 seconds on login
<robert_ancell> it's in my ppa, https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/ppa (best installed with a manual download)
<Amaranth> ouch
<robert_ancell> I just want to get the cropping support done, then I'll release 0.7 and call for wide testing
<robert_ancell> (and push into universe)
<seb128> Amaranth, see http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091126-nocompiznautilusxsessiond.png
<seb128> Amaranth, compared to http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091127-2.png
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ready to get it into universe maybe?
<seb128> there are other changes but you can compare the wm bars there...
<seb128> Amaranth, it's 0.5seconds of cpu use against 11 seconds
<Amaranth> hrm, what the heck is all the extra CPU usage
<seb128> I'm surprised it's only 3s on boot time
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, for 0.7
<Amaranth> iirc it only loads gtk-window-decorator once everything else is loading
<Amaranth> s/loading/loaded/
<seb128> Amaranth, the decorator is another bar on the graph
<seb128> the 11 seconds is without that
<Amaranth> I know, thus the confusion
<chrisccoulson> no more DK-disks!
<chrisccoulson> it's been renamed to udisks now
<robert_ancell> seb128, file-roller fixed up
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<Amaranth> I don't see any WM in that stripped down one
<robert_ancell> pitti, is versions on your webserver the active one.  Why is it not updating?
<seb128> Amaranth, just after g-s-d
<seb128> it's a 0.5 bar
<seb128> the colored part I mean
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, it's not?
<seb128> I'm also wondering why compiz uses so much cpu
<seb128> dropping extra just wins 0.5 seconds
 * pitti runs manually
<robert_ancell> pitti, I normally run a local one but something has broken it in Lucid
<seb128> I would have expected to drop that amonth or .so and .xml to drop some seconds
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's uptodate?
<seb128> timestamp at the bottom on the page says it ran 22 minutes ago there...
<pitti> runs fine here
<robert_ancell> seb128, "Last updated: Wednesday November 04 2009 14:10:06 +0100"
<robert_ancell> weird... something must be caching it
<robert_ancell> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html?
<seb128> robert_ancell, cf topic?
<robert_ancell> ah, karmic->lucod
<pitti> Last updated: Tuesday December 01 2009 23:24:06 +0100
<seb128> that's a symlink
<robert_ancell> it loads properly now
<rickspencer3> lucod is my secret side project
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, was... ;-)
<pitti> oops, it's not any more
<rickspencer3> dang it
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, oh sorry, quick clean the irc logs!
<seb128> quickly clean irclog
<pitti> robert_ancell, seb128: /karmic/versions.html symlink fixed
<robert_ancell> lucod = ubuntu all written in quickly
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> pitti, please drop karmic
<seb128> it's confusing people rather than helping apparently
<seb128> or put a text saying it's lucid now
<pitti> done
<seb128> danke
 * robert_ancell so many packages to sync...
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, I was saying that to rickspencer3 today
<seb128> it's mostly my fault
<seb128> I've been spending most of my week on boot speed
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: What were you saying about xscreensaver and syncing with debian earlier?
<rickspencer3> seb128, no one will ever accuse you of slacking
<seb128> rickspencer3, we apparently didn't cross the same users in bug reports... ;-)
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, oh, xscreensaver has a config file that chooses which screensavers go into which subpackage, that way we can choose different defaults from debian but share all the other packaging code
<Amaranth> oh
<Amaranth> we don't sync with debian at all for compiz stuff
<rickspencer3> hehe
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, no but I guess we should think about it sometime
<seb128> (there is always some of those saying they don't understand how I couldn't fix their bug they had opened for a week now)
<seb128> (that's until they realized that one year later the bug might still be open)
<robert_ancell> seb128, do you sync fast?  I find syncing takes me ages (slower than a general update)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i came across a panel bug yesterday (about applets moving) where it seems you made a good friend ;)
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: last time I tried the debian maintainer didn't agree to any of my changes and we do a heck of a lot of modifications to compiz itself and the packaging
<seb128> chrisccoulson, heh, yeah, that happens...
<chrisccoulson> some users can be quite rude :(
<seb128> robert_ancell, sync, pretty fast yes, time to run sync-source, I guess you mean merge, that takes a while indeed
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, oh well, as long as we tried :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I can understand their frustration though, I don't pay much attention to what they wrote or I don't it personally at least
<seb128> they is a difference of expectation
<seb128> good example of that today
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah the merge.  I never know what to call it, so changelogs say merge, some say sync, some say rebasse
<seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/488129
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 488129 in nautilus "Nautilus usability" [Wishlist,Invalid]
<seb128> the current comment
<robert_ancell> I'm very tempted to make a snarky comment on the gdm bugs when I close them.  Saying "all this discussion has just slowed down development and if it was so damn easy why are there no patches here?"
<seb128> there is lot of users wanting to describe their difficulties using the software or their experience which is different from what we expect from bugs
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, don't give in to the temptation
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I know, but it is very tempting :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I sometime to do but luckily I've greasemonkey replies
<rickspencer3> we should always strive to answer their hostility with kindness
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, wise words
<rickspencer3> break the cycle of hostility, it will be much more efficient in the long run
<seb128> I'm not so wise
<rickspencer3> and also, just a lot nicer place to be
<seb128> I would tend to say to just stay away from those discussions
<seb128> especially if somebody already made your point on the bug
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: I've given some snarky replies to compiz bugs
<seb128> and they just decided to ignore it and keep complaining
<seb128> there is just no point
<rickspencer3> right, I just ignore people who aren't being constructive
<Amaranth> Otherwise I just go passive aggressive and put their bug on the end of my list to look at
<robert_ancell> seb128, it would be nice to be able to mark a bug as "I've read this, don't notify me of any more comments"
<Amaranth> behind the other 470 or so compiz it up to now
<seb128> robert_ancell, indeed, I keep saying I want a "I don't care button"
<rickspencer3> sometimes in a string of non-constructive commentors someone tries to say something that is useful, I'll usually specify a reply to them, and thank them for contributing while I'm at it
<seb128> could be useful for corner cases bugs I will never look at
<seb128> or complain bugs
<robert_ancell> oh, does anyone know how to show the bug stats of a package over time?
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, seb128 surely you could set up a tag and then filter out bugs with that tag?
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, I was trying to see the trend for compiz
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: sure, let me setup a 'jerk' tag :)
<seb128> you don't have tags in bug lists
<seb128> it would mean always doing custom queries rather than browsing launchpad
<rickspencer3> seb128, or using bughugger
 * rickspencer3 shameless plug
<seb128> I guess I could but I didn't do it yet
<rickspencer3> you can filter in and out on tags in bughugger
<seb128> I should be using bughugger
<robert_ancell> what would we call the tag?  Something blatant or subtle
<rickspencer3> seb128, you don't need to humor me
<seb128> I was somewhat waiting on a call for testing or an announce as it to be user ready to use it
<seb128> but I should maybe give it a try again
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, there is a standard tag called ct-rev that is supposed to mean "canonical team reviewed" (and we aren't going to fix it)
<seb128> I was just under the impression it was not production ready yet ;-)
<rickspencer3> but the usage never really caught on
<rickspencer3> seb128, it's in the bughugger PPA, bdmurray is getting it ready for universe
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I guess we want a ct-ready.  Meaning it's ready to fix and we wont monitor it anymore
<seb128> tagging is work from launchpad, but maybe bughugger will be the answer there
<rickspencer3> well, you could write script to tag selected bugs with bughugger and drop it into the plugins fodler
<seb128> I'm still not decided on what would be my idea workflow
<rickspencer3> or at least that's the idea, I haven't tested it with a real plugin yet
<seb128> either I want to know about
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, for ct-ready, I think we need more smarts for that
<rickspencer3> this is where bryce has a lot of good knowledge that we need to harness
<seb128> - bugs I never looked at or bugs I've opt-in because I'm interested
<seb128> or
<seb128> - bugs which got a higher number of comments or duplicates and that I didn't opt-out
<rickspencer3> seb128, I bet bryce could help you write those scripts
<rickspencer3> then we could plug them into bughugger
<seb128> one means reading quickly through new emails and opt-in things
<rickspencer3> when you wake up in the morning it could load that list for you while you sip coffee and chat
<seb128> the other one would mean being confident in the system to raise common or important issues
<rickspencer3> then you can operate on the list of bugs in batches
 * bryce reads scrollback
<rickspencer3> seb128, that
<rickspencer3> s a tough point to automate
<rickspencer3> but again, I think bryce does a pretty good job at that for xorg
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we should really look at making extra use of bryce scripts over other components
 * rickspencer3 chuckles
<bryce> re: rude users... yeah my feelings exactly.
<bryce> what gets really annoying is if you close it with some snarky reply, and then the bug gets linked to by some online journalist
<bryce> they never seem to go for the vast number of bug reports where you've shown kindness
<rickspencer3> bryce, speaking from experience?
<rickspencer3> tbh. the rude users I feel sorry for usually, it's the link bait writing bloggers that get a bit under my skin
<rickspencer3> "Ubuntu Dumps the Gimp"
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<rickspencer3> bryce, how about generalizing those xorg scripts though, there's some goodness there I think
<rickspencer3> how could we go about that?
<bryce> yes.  experience.  bleah.
<bryce> rickspencer3, sure
 * rickspencer3 pats bryce on the shoulder
<bryce> rickspencer3, first thing we need is a definition of a list of packages to run the scripts on
<rickspencer3> bryce, you do such an awesome job for so many users
<rickspencer3> bryce, I think bdmurray has that for the whole desktop team
<rickspencer3> but for seb128, I think the list of packages that the ubuntu-desktop-team subscribes to would be right
<bryce> for X I screenscrape this page to get the package list:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+packagebugs
<seb128> it's similar for desktop, use the desktop-bugs team on launchpad
<bryce> ok, so with that in hand, several scripts like my expire script, will work unmodified
<bryce> for others, I generally write up a bit of text to explain to them what's going on, and that is X specific but could be replaced or adapted without too much work
<bryce> probably the most useful script for you guys also has the most domain knowledge built in, and that's the "new bug processor", which checks for appropriate files to be attached, etc.
<bryce> that one really helps sort the wheat from the chaff
<bryce> but deciding what you think is wheat would take some of your own know-how
<Amaranth> dang chromium user scripts are broken again
<rickspencer3> bryce, don't you have some scripts that detect "ripeness"?
<seb128> bryce, I should have a look to those
<rickspencer3> like this one has duplicates and has a patch and has all the necessary logs, I should tell bryce about it?
<seb128> but most desktop bugs don't require apport infos
<rickspencer3> sort of like bug heat + bug tractability
<bryce> rickspencer3, yes I have some reporting tools which you'd also find useful
<seb128> and we don't do extensive use of apport hooks for now
<seb128> bryce, where are your tools stored? in a public place?
<seb128> is there some documentation on what tools you use and what they do?
<rickspencer3> seb128, when you look for a bug that seems that it is addressable, what do you look for?
<rickspencer3> or do you just look for "heat" (seems to be a problem)?
<seb128> rickspencer3, open upstream bugs about the issue or the code?
<seb128> or in which context do you mean?
<bryce> there is also one for applying symptom tags which is *really* handy but also extremely xorg-specific, with regex's to match key phrases in descriptions, e.g. "blank screen" "fonts too big", etc. You'd want to come up with your own list of regex's
<bryce> seb128, yeah it's in the 'arsenal' bzr tree, I'll give you a link
<seb128> bryce, thanks
<bryce> ogasawara made a branch where she keeps her versions that are customized for the linux kernel
<seb128> I think I will have a look to what you have there first so we can make a list of what could be useful for other things
<seb128> or for desktop at least
<bryce> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/arsenal
<seb128> rickspencer3, my main issue right now is getting useful bugs out of the noise
<rickspencer3> seb128, so if you had a script that told you "this bug is linked to an upstream bug, and that upstream bug has a patch with it" that would save you effort?
<seb128> I've given up on deleting noise
<bryce> seb128, yeah me too
<rickspencer3> seb128, okay, so what makes it useful?
<seb128> I want to know:
<seb128> - bugs which annoy many users
<seb128> - import issues
<bryce> lately I've been pondering making a report tool that lists only bugs from reporters with karma >= $threshhold
<seb128> important
<seb128> - regressions (especially in the stable updates)
<bryce> another report, which folks at UDS liked seeing - bugs with patches attached, across all X components, sortable by patch age:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/patches.html
<seb128> and then I guess:
<seb128> - bugs with enough informations to be useful directly
<seb128> - bugs which would be easy to fix and make a difference (hundredpapercut somewhat try to address that one)
<rickspencer3> - bugs which annoy many users = seems easily scriptable (look for dupes and comments)
<rickspencer3> sorry, thought you were done
<seb128> I'm done
<seb128> agreed, that is somewhat what we discussed at uds with bug heat
<seb128> bryce, that seems useful too
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I think you want heat + addressability
<seb128> right
<seb128> + random side lists would be nice
<seb128> like bugs with patches
<seb128> bugs fixed upstream
<bryce> I have also done a report which includes some of that info, although this link is rather old - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Milestones/milestones_20080708.html
<rickspencer3> these all seem scriptable, and I
<seb128> bugs with patches in upstream bug trackedr
<seb128> tracker
<bryce> it's on my todo list to turn that into something more directly useful
<rickspencer3> m betting that bryce has 80% of the functionality you need alread
<bryce> but you can see it's easy to show stuff like #comments, #dupes, etc. etc. and sort by that
<rickspencer3> maybe pedro could help us generalize these tools
<seb128> yes, I will to him
<seb128> I think one issue we will run into is the server side
<rickspencer3> I'd like to get them baked into bughugger, because then you can tell engineers:
<rickspencer3> "get bughugger then run the following commands"
<rickspencer3> to spread the bryce goodness faster
<bryce> yeah I would love to have help in generalizing this stuff, I mean to myself, just that X keeps me too busy sometimes
<rickspencer3> bryce, right, it's hard to run your rather large project, and also do meta work on top of it
<bryce> rickspencer3, otoh it keeps me focused on what is _really_ useful
<seb128> ups
<rickspencer3> yes, the critical "Important/Not Urgent" quadrant
<rickspencer3> the more work you do there, the less ends up in the dreaded "Important/Urgen" quadrant
<bryce> I am going to set up a new launchpad account for running the scripts as cronjobs under
<bryce> I'd be happy to include cronjobs in that which run on more than just X stuff, as people are interested
<rickspencer3> btw ... https://edge.launchpad.net/~bughuggers/+archive/bughugger
<rickspencer3> thanks bryce that would be great
<seb128> bryce, noted, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, I will check out bughugger again when I've some free slot
<seb128> ie next time I do bug triage
<seb128> I've done almost none this week
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> pitti, btw you can cross gst-plugins-good from you list now
<seb128> pitti, I've synced on debian which uses the udev configure option
<pitti> yay you
<pitti> seb128: dropped hal build/binary deps?
<robert_ancell> pitti, night
<seb128> pitti, hum in fact not it uses both, I wil check with slomo tomorrow
<seb128> 'night pitti
<pitti> seb128: ah, let's keep bug 430099 open until it's gone then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430099 in gst-plugins-good0.10 "Upgrade ubuntu package to drop libhal dependency" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430099
<seb128> right
<seb128> robert_ancell, oh, forgot to keep replying about time sinks that are syncs before
<seb128> indeed takes longer to do those that update for me too
<seb128> that's good to try to do it once a cycle at least though
<seb128> it somewhat forces us to send changes we can send to debian or upstream
<seb128> and sometime debian has interesting changes
<seb128> if packages are too much different I don't bother though
<seb128> ie gdm or gnome-games in karmic
<seb128> still good to have a look to what debian changed and cherry pick interesting things if there is any
<pitti> seb128: related to that, evo dropped hal stuff a while ago, so evo's b-dep on libhal-dev can probably go, too
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will have a look next time I do an upload
<pitti> http://git.gnome.org/cgit/evolution/commit/?id=5a80f92d37e7e8a814f70f826b7b33f5d21b0f72
<robert_ancell> seb128, the bug I open with Debian the most is "please list the dependencies on multiple lines to make diffing easier :)"
<pitti> but not urgent at all
<seb128> hum
<seb128> the current source still has ipod-sync
<seb128> and it's built
<seb128> but I guess we can stop doing that
<pitti> seb128: perhaps that was done after 2.28?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> and we said we would stay on 2.28
<pitti> anyway, it'll just come with the regular updates
<pitti> oh, right
<seb128> but the plugin is pretty useless I think
<pitti> seb128: nevermind; it's just the library, and I don't think there's any urgency to get rid of it in lucid
<seb128> I will clean it during lucid cycle
<garrythefish> not enough drilling. that's what's the problem with the lesbos at #ubuntu-women
<garrythefish> see ya :)
<chrisccoulson> pah, gconfd provides a way of toggling debug mode on/off in an already running daemon, but it doesn't work unless you started it with debug, as it routes stdout to /dev/null
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-02
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: do you think if suspend inhibition in Transmission is worth a SRU?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, pitti is the one to ask about that really. but the change should be fairly trivial (and the current state is a regression), so that would probably a good SRU candidate if somebody wants to do the work
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: patch is ready (pretty trivial) in upstream repository, I can prepare a SRU later. I'll ask pitty tomorrow about it.
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - thanks :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, regarding https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps, looks like you are down for seeding two new games
<rickspencer3> is that ok?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, I don't think I have the authority to do the actual seeding so I'll ask pitti to do that but I think we should try those new games in the alpha and see how they go
<rickspencer3> k
<and471> jono: you here?
<jono> hey and471
<and471> jono: any luck or do you need me to troubleshoot it some more with you
<jono> and471, I havent had time
<jono> been hacking on some other bits
<and471> jono, btw sorry about cutting out early, I have a restriction on my internet time and  forgot to tell you :-)
<and471> jono, do you have time to do it now?
<jono> no worries
<jono> let me check out the branch
<and471> ok
<jono> and471:
<jono> File "bin/lernid", line 193, in connect_to_resources
<jono>     self.chat.load_uri(chatirc)
<jono> AttributeError: 'LernidWebView' object has no attribute 'load_uri'
<and471> ok
<and471> jono, are you running karmic?
<jono> and471, yes
<jono> I did have Lernid originally running with WebKit
<jono> so something is odd in your code
<and471> jono: could you run the following in a terminal
<and471> jono: http://pastebin.com/d2cf6d69e
<and471> jono, just opaste eacvh line in and press enter
<and471> *paste  *each
<jono> AttributeError: 'webkit.WebView' object has no attribute 'load_uri'
<jono> it has an issue with that attrib
<and471> jono, yeah, what I was testing is to see whether there was a problem with webkit or my code
<and471> jono, seems to be webkit
<and471> jono, okay can you find out the version of your python-webkit for me?
<jono> and471, 1.1.5-1
<and471> jono, ah, I have a version form a ppa it seems
<and471> *from
<jono> and471, aha!
<and471> jono: does it work if you use python-webkit from this ppa https://launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/ppa/+packages
<jono> and471, I don't want to get non-Karmic components
<and471> jono, oh ok
<jono> and471, also, why move to WebKit from GtkMozEmbed?
<and471> jono: it is meant to be a lot quicker, and I just hear better things about webkit, like it is easier to work with etc.
<and471> jono, anyway I am sure we can find a way for it to work
<jono> did your branch add anything else?
<and471> jono, yep, parsing of the schedule
<jono> and471, when I tried webkit it would not run the web IRC client
<jono> and471, parsing the schedule?
<jono> actually, I was working on that
<jono> tonight
<jono> I now have code to read in an iCal file and generate a schedule
<jono> just trying to figure out how to convert between timezones
<and471> jono, oh
<and471> jono, what I was doing is downloading JUST the content from the wiki using a special url
<and471> jono, and then presenting that
<jono> ahhh
<jono> yeah, I am thinking we need structured datra
<and471> jono, that way I don't have to do any converting between formats
<and471> bbiab
<jono> because then we can pop up notification bubbles 10mins before a session, convert timezones etc
<pitti> Good morning
<baptistemm> hello
<and471> jono, in which case your way seems to way to go :-)
<and471> jono, go forward with that idea, it is a lot better than mine
<and471> jono, btw to convert between timezones, I am sure you can just use the time module
<and471> jono, http://docs.python.org/library/time.html
<and471> jono, well have fun doing that!
<and471> jono, see ya
<jono> thanks and471
<mac_v> pitti: hi ,regarding Bug 436755 , just wanted to mention that the deb from njpatel's ppa works but not sure why the repo version doesnt work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436755 in evolution-indicator "indicator-applet doesn't change icon when I recieve new e-mails via Evolution" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436755
<pitti> mac_v: hm, strange; does it have the same patch?
<mac_v> pitti: not sure , i havent checked , njp might know about it
<mac_v> pitti: one of the things i realised during testing njp's ppa was , it worked when i purged and then installed the deb [not sure how or why that is so]
<mac_v> nearly same as reported by the last comment
<pitti> bonjour seb128_
<seb128> good morning everybody
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> splendid, how are you?
<seb128> very good thanks
<seb128> I had a good night and weather is nice
<seb128> go robert_ancell go
<seb128> nice to see him tackling merges and updates and uploading while we are sleeping there ;-)
<pitti> indeed, impressive how much work we can get done just by sleeping :)
<seb128> pitti, I've uploaded a new sru for this indicator issues which failed verification
<pitti> seb128: do you know "seed" and "gnome-js-common"?
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> pitti, yes, those are javascript for GNOME
<seb128> pitti, njpatel forgot to add simple-patchsys to the rules
<pitti> seb128: should we try to keep them out of main, or MIR/promote?
<pitti> hah
<seb128> I guess he didn't use a correct patch for his ppa upload
<seb128> pitti, seed is used by gnome-games now...
<seb128> so get it to main
<pitti> that's why I ask
<pitti> current CD builds break because of that
<pitti> but I guess in the long run we'll need it anyway
<seb128> yes
<seb128> epiphany-browser uses it too
<seb128> though that is in universe now
<seb128> but it's an semi-official GNOME thing
<seb128> I say semi because they are still arguing on gjs against seed
<seb128> ie bindings based on xul or webkit
<seb128> I would be in favor of keeping those out of the CD for lucid though
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> seb128: we could demote those two games
<seb128> which games are those?
<pitti> that's why I asked about doing the default-apps seed changes
<seb128> I'm getting the sources right now
<seb128> 28 meg to download...
<pitti> lightsoff
<pitti> seb128: it's not a b-dep, just binary
<pitti> and swell-foop
<pitti> we didn't plan to include those on the CD anyway
<seb128> let's demote those
<pitti> so I was about to change the seeds
<seb128> +1
<pitti> but I still wonder whether to keep them on the DVD
<seb128> doesn't hurt
<pitti> i. e. the full gnome-games thing
<pitti> ok, then we do need the MIR
<pitti> I'll prepare both (seeds and MIRs) now
<seb128> I need to do some mirs too
<seb128> hey njpatel
<njpatel> seb128: hey!
<seb128> njpatel, I've uploaded a new fix for this pop count issue, sorry that I didn't spot the previous one didn't have a patchsys rule
<seb128> njpatel, ie the patch didn't get used, not sure why it worked for your ppa though...
<njpatel> seb128: oh, weird :-/
<njpatel> seb128: thanks for sorting it out :)
<seb128> np, sorry for not spotting the issue in the first upload
<njpatel> seb128: your right...that's so weird (just checked old evo-indicator's rules file)
<njpatel> seb128: dude, np :)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson_g1
<chrisccoulson_g1> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson_g1
<pitti> yay G1
<seb128> chrisccoulson_g1, back to work? ;-)
<chrisccoulson_g1> hey seb128, yeah, I'm back to work today
<chrisccoulson_g1> but on a training course :)
<seb128> to what are you trained?
<chrisccoulson_g1> pitti - you're a g1 owner too arent you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson_g1: right, and I love it
<chrisccoulson_g1> seb128 - I'm on a training course about analog simulation. its all stuff I've done before, but there is a free lunch on offer :)
 * pitti pulls and challenges chrisccoulson_g1 for a "The Schwartz Unsheated" duel
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson_g1> heh :)
<seb128> hey slomo
<seb128> pitti, what is the story with poppler in debian now?
<seb128> did everybody agreed on what to do? are people still arguing with upstream over the changes there?
<pitti> seb128: Joss said that he reverted the ABI breakage for now to finish the testing migration
<pitti> afterwards he'll upload a libpoppler5a with upstream's ABI again
<pitti> which seems like a reasonable approach to me
<seb128> bah
<seb128> changing the name?
<pitti> *shrug* it's not like upstream cares about it: )
<slomo> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> no but I hate weird names and going to binary new and rebuilding things which don't need a rebuild
<pitti> it has caused utter, UTTER, HARD pain
<pitti> seb128: they do need a rebuild anyway
<pitti> with the difference that with a rename you avoid breakage
<seb128> no they don't?
<pitti> sure they do
<seb128> at least not softwares using the glib bindings
<seb128> ie evince
<pitti> things just maddingly fall apart if you don't
<pitti> seb128: those shouldn't link against libpoppler5 directly then?
<seb128> are you sure?
<pitti> see the 9023423 cups bugs that were reported
<seb128> they should not no but some do thanks to libtool
<seb128> I would rather use Conflicts then changing naming but I don't strongly care either way
<pitti> how would adding Conflicts: all over the place help to reduce the effort?
<pitti> it rather seems like a lot of explicit changes for a temporary issue than just a clean no-change rebuild
<seb128> slomo, you seem full speed on unstable versions for Debian ;-) do you know when is the freeze coming and what version of GNOME is expected?
<slomo> seb128: no but last time i read something about it, the goal was 3.0
<seb128> pitti, oh I didn't say it would reduce the effort I just dislike weird library renames
<slomo> seb128: btw, do you have ubuntu specific changes in gtk 2.19?
<seb128> slomo, we don't have gtk 2.19 yet
<seb128> you are crack addict nowadays ;-)
<seb128> or you have lot of free time to deal with early unstable version bugs ;-)
<slomo> seb128: i was working on a problem that i didn't make sense to me for a few hours yesterday... i needed distraction :)
<seb128> lol
<slomo> seb128: and gtk 2.19 is great, nothing seems to be broken ;) only glib 2.23 has some problems
<seb128> slomo, I will have a look at syncing it from Debian
<seb128> I want to do some testing first though
<seb128> slomo, do you plan to start on 2.29 packaging too?
<slomo> seb128: ok :) glib 2.23 makes many applications complain at startup, other than that it's fine too: (gvim:29639): GLib-WARNING **: g_set_prgname() called multiple times
<slomo> seb128: only some parts that i'm interested in (glib, gtk, soup, epiphany), not sure about other stuff
<seb128> ok
<seb128> slomo, do you know what are the plan for gstreamer this cycle btw?
<seb128> I would like to avoid having a karmic situation for the lts
<seb128> the playbin2 changes created lot of new issues previous cycle
<seb128> and we had to take quite to rewrites etc to fix easy codec install, etc late in the cycle
<seb128> do you know if disruptive changes are coming this cycle too?
<slomo> seb128: well, this changes were necessary because nobody reported bugs early enough ;)
<slomo> seb128: i don't think this will happen again next cycle, it was bad timing everywhere
<seb128> slomo, I don't blame anybody but when you have rewrite, etc you can expect issues
<seb128> slomo, I'm just trying to figure if we can expect a bug fix cycle this cycle or if we need to be pro-active to avoid trouble
<slomo> gst-plugins-base 0.10.26 has some more larger changes (related to playbin2 this time) that you don't have in any packages yet
<slomo> after that i don't expect that this cycle there will be large rewrites/refactoring
<seb128> ok good
<slomo> mostly bugfixes or new features
<seb128> thanks
<slomo> seb128: btw, are you going to update epiphany/webkit in karmic updates? imho 2.28 is nothing you want to use ;)
<seb128> slomo, no, not worth the trouble imho
<seb128> I would recommend people to use firefox or chromium anyway
<seb128> epiphany is a joke nowadays
<slomo> do you know if a ppa exists with epiphany 2.29 and newest webkit? :)
<seb128> they keep adding requirements on new libsoup or webkit anyway
<seb128> that's not practical for stable updates
<slomo> well, i don't like firefox and chromium :) midori might be another solution
<seb128> I don't know about a ppa no...
<seb128> let me have a look
<seb128> launchpad has this nice feature listing ppa versions
<seb128> slomo, https://edge.launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/epiphany
<seb128> slomo, that has a 2.29.1 build for karmic apparently
<cassidy> kenvandine, hey! Would be great if https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/491317 could be fixed; atm Empathy 2.29.x isn't installable without removing the session applet :(
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 491317 in indicator-session "Shouldn't use libempathy" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> cassidy, we don't have 2.29
<slomo> seb128: thanks
<cassidy> seb128, but you will in Lucid and as soon it's fixed in Lucid I can backport the packet to our PPA and so make it installable on Karmic
<seb128> cassidy, right, makes sense
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<pedro_> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<pedro_> seb128, good good, how about you?
<seb128> good thank you!
<seb128> slomo, oh btw is there any plan to make gst-plugins-good0.10 stop using libhal since it uses udev now?
<seb128> or are both useful there?
 * pitti gets a first panel with cached .desktop data
<seb128> pitti, waouh!
<slomo> seb128: both are useful, udev is only used for v4l2 while the hal plugin has audio sinks that use a hal udi as device name. it might make sense to write a new devkit plugin that does the same as the hal plugin later
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> does that even work with pulse?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'd be interested to see your panel work :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so am I :)
<pitti> I don't have a cache file generator yet, just a manually crafted one and the code to load it
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to think of ways to avoid gconf calls when loading the theme in g-s-d :)
<pitti> that's what I'll tackle next
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just use a single pre-translated GKeyFile which has all the desktop files
<pitti> that avoids all the stat()ing and translating
<pitti> you still have to parse the actual data, of course
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i was wondering if you were going to use a GKeyFile or not, or if you had any other ideas
<chrisccoulson> i used the same thing for loading the required components in gnome-session
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I started with a tab-separated-value approach, but that gets too fiddly
<pitti> and probably won't save so much time, too
<chrisccoulson> and maybe i might do something similar in g-s-d to create a cache of theme info :)
<pitti> but the .cache file has a lot of unnecessary keys filtered out, pre-translated, and single-file
<pitti> once I have a complete cache, I'll do some timing
<chrisccoulson> cool:)
<chrisccoulson> i tried looking at ways to improve gconf speed yesterday, but i think that's a non-starter really. i think we just need to delay reading from gconf for as long as possible when loading the session
<chrisccoulson> and i've already got a gnome-session that can start the session without reading from gconf :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but we do need to start gconf either way, right?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: some people looked at gconf speed a cycle ago I think and some patches went in
<seb128> I don't think we should spend lot of efforts on gconf now
<seb128> we will get dconf next cycle
<chrisccoulson> pitti - we do. but at the moment, it delays the whole session from starting. i was thinking that if we could start getting some session components loading and then start the gconf stuff whilst other things are loading, it might be slightly quicker
<pitti> oh, right
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm not going to spend too much time looking at it
<seb128> but delaying gconf use until later seems good
<seb128> lunch time!
<pitti> vuntz: bonjour
<pitti> vuntz: if you have a minute,  I have a first patch for gnome-menus caching: http://pastebin.com/f788f609d
<pitti> vuntz: the .cache file is basically a single GKeyFile, one section per app, with strings pre-translated (thus it's called desktop.<localename>.cache), and unnecessary fields stripped
<pitti> vuntz: that provides per-directory caches (global cache is not really appropriate for distro integration), avoids lots of stat()ing, and i18n'ing
<pitti> vuntz: do you think the general approach is okay?
<vuntz> pitti: err, one big GKeyFile?
<pitti> vuntz: I started with a CSV, but that quickly gets clumsy
<vuntz> pitti: desrt was suggesting to use GVariant to have a binary mmap-able file
<pitti> vuntz: is that in glib yet?
<vuntz> pitti: I guess your approach can work in the meantime, but I won't accept that upstream
<vuntz> pitti: not yet, will be merged "soon"
<pitti> vuntz: ok, so if gvariant is faster, assume the patch would use variant instead of gkeyfile; what do you think about the general structure?
<pitti> once gvariant lands, it's certainly promising
<vuntz> pitti: shouldn't the cache be somewhere in /var ?
<vuntz> (just reading the patch and commenting on details for now :-))
<pitti> vuntz: no problem, can do that
<pitti> replacing '/' with '_' and prepending /var/cache/gmenu/
<pitti> vuntz: you'd lose the ability to have per-user cache files then, thoughh
<pitti> (not that we want to integrate that by default, or that I deem it important to have)
<vuntz> pitti: one issue is that your stuff is not recursive
<vuntz> pitti: cached_dir_load_entries_recursive is really recursive
<vuntz> pitti: (ie, it calls itself for subdirs)
<pitti> vuntz: that was actually deliberate
<pitti> a parent dir's cache should include the children
<vuntz> so I would really rename functions :-)
<pitti> no unnecessary start()/opendir()/parsing
<pitti> ok
<vuntz> I mean, right now, it's probably okay if we want the patch to not be invasive
<vuntz> looks relatively sane
<vuntz> but to get it upstream, there's some renaming to do, and gvariant, I guess
<pitti> vuntz: which function would you rename? cached_dir_load_entries_from_cache_file() doesn't suggest it'd be recursive?
<pitti> vuntz: gvariant> indeed, looking forward to that
<vuntz> cached_dir_load_entries_recursive()
<vuntz> ah, well
<vuntz> I see
<pitti> the cache builder needs to do the recursion
<vuntz> I guess it's okay
<pitti> in fact, cache builder == remove cache, gmenu_lookup_tree(), build key-file from that
<vuntz> (my comments are really about style, which doesn't matter for now anyway :-))
<pitti> appreciated
<pitti> it's the first time I hack on gmenu, so it took me some time to understand the structure
<vuntz> yeah, it's, hrm, messy
<vuntz> and you didn't even start trying to fix some monitoring bug
<vuntz> it should get rewritten with real gobjects instead of pseudo-objects that have pseudo-signals
<pitti> so, if that won't land upstream, I can just as well write update-gmenu-cache in Python for simplicity
<vuntz> pitti: you probably also want to do something about gio, since g_app_info_get_all() will do the same
<pitti> since that will need to be re-done anyway with gvariant
<vuntz> yep
<pitti> vuntz: oh, and that doesn't use gnome-menus?
<vuntz> nope
<pitti> okay
<pitti> but I guess I'll do that once gvariant lands, to avoid doing things twice
<kklimonda> good afternoon
<kklimonda> pitti: can you take a look at bug 457123, is it a good candidate for sru now that the patch is ready?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457123 in transmission "Transmission doesn't prevent suspend when torrent is active" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457123
<pitti> "/away -all
<pitti> kklimonda: looks sane enough
<kenvandine> cassidy, i snagged bug 491317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491317 in indicator-session "Shouldn't use libempathy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491317
<kenvandine> will look at it today
<kenvandine> although i doubt it can be fixed for karmic
<kenvandine> but for lucid for sure :)
<daemonza> Hi any openbox users here?
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, he said that's ok they will backport the fix in their ppa
<seb128> 2.29 is not in karmic anyway
<cassidy> yep
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - can you recreate the screensaver crash?
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: no, unfortunately
<chrisccoulson> that's a shame. i haven't seen it yet either :(
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: yeah...it's hard to debug problems we can't reproduce :(
<chrisccoulson> it is. the last screensaver crash was hard enough to debug, and i could recreate that one (albeit, not very often)
 * pitti smiles about his wife
<pitti> I just showed her dotty
<pitti> she currently has a task to create some XML and DTD, and to do a structure tree
<cj> grr... my laptop screen keeps dimming.  how do I *really* disable delayed dimming?
<cj> pitti: my wife is finally learning html & css.  good fun.
<MenZa> cj: my gf's on the Python wagon :)
<cj> I unchecked 'Dim display when idle' and pushed 'Set display brightness to:' up to 100% in the Power Management Preferences dialogue.
<cj> MenZa: onoes!  what is the perl community going to do!?
<MenZa> :D
 * cj scowls at the competition
<pitti> vuntz, seb128: hm, using the single-reduced-keyfile approach is still slow, but it's an improvement
<pitti> default:
<pitti> cold cache: 7.9
<pitti> hot cache: 0.3
<pitti> patch:
<pitti> cold cache: 2.7
<pitti> hot cache: 0.1
<pitti> (in seconds)
<pitti> average of three runs
<vuntz> pitti: still much better. And the mmap file should help quite a bit for the remaining part
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> a nice standard serialization API for this kind of nested data structures is badly missing indeed
<pitti> FYI, that's the time of
<pitti>     setlocale(LC_ALL, "");
<pitti>     GMenuTree* tree = gmenu_tree_lookup("applications.menu", GMENU_TREE_FLAGS_NONE);
<pitti>     printf("%p\n", gmenu_tree_get_root_directory(tree));
<seb128> pitti, gains even small ones are welcome and that one is quite nice to get!
<pitti> seb128: I'll upload it to a PPA
<pitti> seb128: I have a call with Rick now and then I need to run
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: once it's built, would you want to do a test run?
<pitti> seb128: upgrade to it, then
<seb128> sure
<seb128> does it work out of the box?
<seb128> or do I need to generate the cache by hand?
<pitti> update-gnome-menus-cache /usr/share/applications/ > /usr/share/applications/$LANG.cache
<pitti> seb128: then remove the ureadahead cache
<pitti> boot once to regenerate it
<pitti> and then another time
<pitti> since this will take out all the *.desktops from readahead
<pitti> and include the .cache
<seb128> where is the cache?
<pitti> seb128: I'll deal with those ^ in the final upload, but run out of time now
<pitti> seb128: sorry, /usr/share/applications/desktop.$LANG.cache
<pitti> /usr/share/applications/desktop.de_DE.UTF-8.cache
<pitti> ^ for me
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: I'll move it to var
<seb128> and the the boot one?
<seb128> I've never cleaned that by hand
<pitti> but I'm interested in how much it brings
<seb128> I usually let the distro do whatever is standard
<pitti> seb128: /var/lib/ureadahead/pack ?
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> I never looked at how that works
<seb128> it's just magic to me ;-)
<pitti> see /var/lib/dpkg/info/ureadahead.postinst
<pitti> rm -f /var/lib/ureadahead/pack /var/lib/ureadahead/*.pack
<seb128> cool
<seb128> I think I've everything I need for testing
<seb128> I will let you know how it goes
<pitti> seb128: if it's worth doing, I'll add the magic triggering bits, cache autogeneration, etc.
<pitti> seb128: merci!
<pitti> rickspencer3: call now?
<pitti> seb128: oops; just noticed a "slight" bug -- application entries don't actually work :-(
<pitti> but well, that should be easy to fix :)
<seb128> still worth testing the speed?
<pitti> seb128: yes, please
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: just move away the .cache file and restart panel
<pitti> to get the default situation back
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: uploaded to desktop PPA now
<seb128> ok
 * pitti pushes to bzr, too
<cj> so... any clue why my laptop monitor keeps dimming?
 * pitti -> off for today
<seb128> pitti, bye
<jcastro> rickspencer3, FYI I will be tracking the priority set of applications on my blueprint
<jcastro> wrt dx-lucid-application-indicator
<kenvandine> jcastro, cool
<jcastro> once I get the DX team to commit to the list I will add it to my bp, file the bugs for each one, etc.
<bryce> can someone tell me what version of gnome is being targeted for Lucid?  (ATI wants to know for fglrx)
<baptistemm> bryce, I would guess 2.30
<baptistemm> better to ask to seb128
<chrisccoulson> hello seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad, although a bit tired. just got back in from work
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> pitti, the gnome-menus caching is a 0.5 second win apparently
<kenvandine> seb128, awesome
<seb128> chrisccoulson, quite good, thanks, feeling like I didn't make best use of my time for 2 hours though
<chrisccoulson> how come?
<seb128> I tried to install karmic on computer which failed at grub stage
<chrisccoulson> ah, that's not good
<seb128> then the installer wouldn't go after the timezone steps in the installer
<chrisccoulson> did you get it working in the end?
<seb128> and usb-creator just fail on lucid
<seb128> so I had to reboot my laptop to create a new usb key from a cdrom boot...
<seb128> no
<seb128> I've an install done but no grub booting it
<seb128> I just finished rewriting the key
<seb128> at least I managed to try the gnome-menus caching changes from pitti meanwhile
<chrisccoulson> i had issues installing karmic on my desktop, but it turned out to be my fault in the end
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that looks quite promising
<seb128> I hate the multi-disk with win scenario
<seb128> I never know where to install grub
<seb128> and I'm always scare to nuke the winxp bootloader and get people angry
<chrisccoulson> i don't have that issue any more :)
<chrisccoulson> well, i have multiple disks, but only one OS
<seb128> default install picked sdb which is were the linux partition is
<seb128> that failed though
<seb128> I'm not sure about using sda since I don't want to overwrite the win bootloader
<chrisccoulson> my issue was that i used to use dmraid on my machine, and when i nuked that, there was still some metadata left on the disk, and it messed things up
<seb128> yeah, I noticed you had quite some fun during karmic with your boot config
<seb128> especially with the boot speed changes which landed
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i had a lot of issues with that, but mainly down to my wierd config ;)
<fagan> can someone help me diagnose a bug in lucid? Im having panels dissapear and reappear every 2 or 3 seconds
<kklimonda> will we have a simple way to install only selected packages from -backports in 10.04 ?
<chrisccoulson> fagan - is gnome-panel just crashing?
<fagan> It seems to load but then removes itself then reloads
<fagan> it does that over and over
<chrisccoulson> right, it will do that if it's crashing
<fagan> I dont know how to debug it without being able to access terminal
<chrisccoulson> but you would either need to obtain a backtrace of that, or enable apport and have it catch the crash instead
<fagan> I cant get to terminal
<chrisccoulson> why not?
<fagan> Alt+f4 cant stay open long enough and I cant get it through the menu
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, why not just switch to a VT instead?
<chrisccoulson> the panel is not really needed to get access to a terminal
<fagan> Oh ok so what should I be looking for?
<chrisccoulson> well, you should probably try enabling apport first
<chrisccoulson> if it's crashing, you can submit a crash report then
<fagan> chrisccoulson: isnt apport enabled already?
<chrisccoulson> i don't think it's enabled this early on in the cycle
<fagan> Oh ok so ill enable apport and see what that picks up
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<seb128> fagan, you should be able to right click on the desktop and create a launcher
<seb128> works usually to open a command line
<chrisccoulson> heh, i didn't think of that
<chrisccoulson> i just normally switch to a VT when debugging core desktop components
<fagan> ill be back in 10 and ill see what I can find out
<fagan> ok so to start apport I need to sudo service apport start?
<fagan> ok so to start apport I need to sudo service apport start?
<fagan> chrisccoulson: the original crash was in libsnmp-base
<fagan> apport isnt picking up the crash. It only says seg fault in terminal when I try load gnome-panel manually. I also tried with compiz on and compiz off it still seg faults.
<fagan> This is something bad
<fagan> The only thing of interest I can see is (gnome-panel:7947): Gdk-WARNING **: /build/buildd/gtk+2.0-2.19.1/gdk/x11/gdkdrawable-x11.c:952 drawable is not a pixmap or window
<fagan> But that might be unrelated
<chrisccoulson> oh, fagan has disappeared now
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if he's figured out how to enable apport yet :-/
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> how are you?
<robert_ancell> seb128, good
<seb128> cool
<fagan> ooh I think my problem maybe a python issue because firefox crashed and complained about python
<seb128> robert_ancell, I would like to change a bit versions.html this cycle but want to discuss it with you before
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure
<seb128> I'm slightly annoyed by having things there we don't care about
<seb128> ie openssh
<seb128> you are the one who added those, what were you aiming at?
<seb128> having all the things on the cd there?
<robert_ancell> seb128, just adding everything on the cd
<seb128> I sort of what to use the list for desktop team todolisting
<seb128> what -> want
<robert_ancell> seb128, I propose you just quote out the things we don't want in the versions.py and we see if anyone (including me) complains
<seb128> so things we don't touch would be nice out of the way
<seb128> other thing is that we need a way to fix a serie
 * fagan cant pastebin because firefox and chrome dont stay alive :(
<seb128> like dbus is 1.3 and we want 1.2
<seb128> and I think it's what we want
<seb128> how would you suggest handling that?
<robert_ancell> seb128, that one is harder..  that was when I started looking at launchpadlib to do that as it tracks that information.  I couldn't get it to work though
<seb128> adding an extra optimal argument to the list?
<robert_ancell> seb128, the bit I was worried about was the potential increase in download times.
<seb128> why?
<robert_ancell> seb128, agreed, extra arg will do it for now
<seb128> the current list is (component, url)
<seb128> if we had (component, url, optionalserie) we could use the extra argument for version matching
<seb128> that should not mean anything else for downloads
<robert_ancell> yes agreed, don't block on me.
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> I don't know how long it takes to run on pittis box but it takes ages for me here :)
<seb128> next thing I would like to do is a way to update the list without querying upstream urls and launchpad
<seb128> just refreshing ubuntu and debian versions
<seb128> and gnome for things in the vuntz's list, that's quick too
<fagan> brb
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I was looking at two scripts - one to basically do what vuntz is doing for all upstreams and the other to generate the list and check for LP bugs
<robert_ancell> run the second one on demand (or near to demand)
<robert_ancell> and ideally to trigger the former from email on the GNOME FTP list
<seb128> right
<seb128> anyway that's some extra work
<seb128> I think I will start by adding the serie thing
<seb128> that will avoid having people working on things we don't want to update
<robert_ancell> sure, it's all incremental stuff (though I talk to the LP guys now and then how we can do it with their data)
<seb128> and clean a bit the list
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> +1
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> totem merged, that one was annoyed
<robert_ancell> (just please leave the data in the versions.py so we can use it at a later time if we want it)
<robert_ancell> yes I tried totem and gave up the other day
<seb128> good point, I will comment those
<seb128> the remaining merges start being annoying
<robert_ancell> they're all annoying :)
<seb128> well some are trivial
<seb128> like copy the lpi patch and be done
<robert_ancell> some have more changelog than merge!
<seb128> I just keep the current changelog entry ;-)
<seb128> btw don't bother merging the changelog
<robert_ancell> I now have to deal with three layers of merging - oem project specific + oem + ubuntu + debian
<seb128> just drop the previous entries if you do a summary
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> oh btw we usually start at ubuntu1 not ubuntu0
<seb128> (you used ubuntu0 for the file-roller one)
<robert_ancell> oh I keep screwing up the version numbers...
<fagan> ok so I need someone to walk me through debugging this crash. Command by command please because I dont have a clue about debugging
<fagan> first how do I start apport?
<fagan> chrisccoulson: help ^
<chrisccoulson> fagan - you need to enable apport in /etc/default/apport
<chrisccoulson> and then restart it with "sudo service apport restart"
<chrisccoulson> i've got to disappear for a bit, but i'll be back later
<fagan> cool ill see what i can find out
<fagan> hmmm im getting a weird error when I try start apport
<fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/333457/
<chrisccoulson> i'm back again for a few minutes, it was a false alarm ;)
<chrisccoulson> i've no idea what that error means
<fagan> pitti: ^^^
 * fagan thinks its a python problem
<fagan> Ok the recent crashes I got were for libsnmp-base libfreetype6-dev so what do those packages do that can crash gnome-panel with a segfault
<fagan> Ok after fiddling about a little I know where the segfault is
<fagan> Its something to do with the menus
<fagan> anyone any ideas?
<fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/333471/ chrisccoulson here is a better error why gnome-panel is crashing
 * fagan feels very alone with his problem and will reinstall in the morning but still wants to figure out the problem
<robert_ancell> seb128, can you look at the metacity update I did - it doesn't seem uploadable by me
<robert_ancell> (in bzr)
<seb128> why not uploadable?
<seb128> robert_ancell,  ^?
<robert_ancell> bug 490214
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 490214 in metacity "Merge with Debian 1:2.28.0-2" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490214
<robert_ancell> permissions - is metacity on the ~ubuntu-desktop list?
<seb128> what error do you get on upload?
<robert_ancell> I'll try again
 * ccheney will finally get to see snow again at home, was gone to UDS last year when it happened and hadn't happened in about 15 years before that
<seb128> robert_ancell, time to go to bed for me, I will check with pitti tomorrow if you didn't upload during your day
<seb128> or rather if it your upload doesn't make it to lucid
<seb128> 'night everybody!!
<robert_ancell> seb128, "Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'."
<robert_ancell> seb128, night!
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, will check with pitti tomorrow and get that fixed if somebody knows what's going onj
<seb128> bye
<pitti> robert_ancell: seems metacity is in "core" then; I sent the command to the -desktop ML some days ago
<pitti> edit_acl.py, I meant (for checking permissions)
<robert_ancell> pitti, ok, thanks!
<pitti> robert_ancell: need sponsoring for metacity?
<ph8> hey all, i've got a 3 screen nvidia setup and i've got a problem with moving windows. Often when i click a window's toolbar and drag it the last window i had selected gets dragged instead - any idea what's up with that?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yes please - might as well upload it now
<pitti> robert_ancell: FYI, upgrades from gutsy are no longer supported, so we can drop delta from that
<pitti> (preinst bits)
<robert_ancell> pitti, cool, I was going to ask about that. What is the rule about what we have to support upgrading from?
<pitti> robert_ancell: version -> version, LTS -> LTS in general
<robert_ancell> ok
<pitti> robert_ancell: so, we need to keep upgrade quirks for "since last LTS" until the next LTS is released
<pitti> i. e. currently we need to keep all upgrade quirks since hardy, until after lucid's release
<pitti> robert_ancell: want to drop that delta and remove from changelog before upload?
<robert_ancell> sure, will do now
 * robert_ancell compiling metacity...
<chrisccoulson> fagan - i'm not convinced that error message is anything to do with the crash. but, without a backtrace, it doesn't really tell me anything at all
<robert_ancell> pitti, ready to upload
<pitti> thanks! nice, that dropped a lot of cruft
<pitti> robert_ancell: BTW, now that you can upload most bits, do you know that/how to use debuild -v with merges?
<robert_ancell> no
<pitti> robert_ancell: so, with -v<version> the source.changes will include all changelogs since (not including) version
<pitti> robert_ancell: i. e. that on -changes@ you both see the last one as usual ("merged from debian blabla") and also the actual changes from Debian
<pitti> robert_ancell: <version> should be "last version in Ubuntu"
<robert_ancell> ah ok
<robert_ancell> can you do that from bzr-buildpackage?
<pitti> i. e. here I did "bzr bd -S -- -sa -v1:2.28.0-0ubuntu1"
<pitti> yes, it takes debuild arguments after --
<robert_ancell> I notice you can't do bzr-buildpackage -S -sa which is annoying
<robert_ancell> yay!
<pitti> -S is special
<pitti> -S -- -sa works
<pitti> another useful thing is bzr bd -- -b -us -uc for a test build
<pitti> you get the idea
<robert_ancell> nice
<pitti> good night everyone!
<bryce> pitti, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzc2Mw
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-03
<seb128> hello there
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<pitti> good morning
<pitti> hey bryce! hm, that's only a list of articles? anything particularly interesting?
<pitti> seb128: thanks for running the benchmarks yesterday; so it was a 0.5 second savings for desktop part, or total?
<seb128> both
<pitti> seb128: (I had hoped for some nontrivial savings in the readahead part, too)
<pitti> ok, thanks
<seb128> it doesn't win anything obvious out of desktop I think
<pitti> :-(
<seb128> well I didn't look into details to the non desktop numbers
<seb128> let me look at those again now
<seb128> pitti, it's not easy to say numbers change a bit between boots
<pitti> seb128: ok, no prob; if it's not really visible, it doesn't buy much then
<seb128> it seems around 0.2 seconds win for boot and 0.5 seconds for login
<pitti> well, I'm 80% there with it anyway, and it helps more on rotary, so I think I'll finish it anyway
<seb128> well we need those 0.5 seconds anyway
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> with gvariant we can hopefully make it a bit faster, too
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> pitti, what do you think about commenting out xsplash?
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<seb128> pitti, it takes between .5 and 1 second
<pitti> seb128: for testing, would be interesting; I hope we can make it much less CPU intense by changing the animation?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> pitti, not, for reaching target, rickspencer suggested being aggressive until getting there and they adding things back
<pitti> yay, David applied my last dk-disks patch
<seb128> I would like to drop it now and say we don't re-add it until it's reasonable cpu wise
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> pitti, robert_ancell signed for looking at gnome-panel speed btw
<seb128> just fyi so you guys don't dup work there
<pitti> \o/
<chrisccoulson> i tired experimenting with gconf last night, by making gconfd stat() all the xml files when it starts, rather than doing it when applications query the database
<pitti> seb128: I just wanted to do the app menu caching; not dropping applets, etc.
<chrisccoulson> but i didn't get it to work before i went to bed ;)
<chrisccoulson> s/tired/tried
<seb128> chrisccoulson, wouldn't it be simpler to have a cat of those in some xsession script or something?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if the goal is to cache infos
<seb128> at least for testing
<seb128> pitti, ok, good
<pitti> shouldn't readahead already pick those up?
<pitti> cat'ing seems unnecessary
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - possibly. the issue is when applications query the database, gconfd builds its tree of values, which involves lots of stat() calls, and this blocks until that is all done
<chrisccoulson> so i thought that gconfd could do that early rather than waiting for an application to ask for a value
<seb128> good idea
<chrisccoulson> i was hoping that it could do that whilst gnome-session and g-s-d are loading (which won't need gconf when i've finished with them)
<chrisccoulson> so that when the panel loads, the gconf database will already be ready
<chrisccoulson> i don't really know if it will work out yet though
<pitti> does it help in any way to use a merged tree?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it probably would help a lot
<seb128> we do that by default no?
<chrisccoulson> is it easy to do that? (i'm still learning how gconf works)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the per user database is a separate folder for each folder in the database (i think that's the opposite of a merged tree isnt it?)
<seb128> right
<seb128> but the user config is empty for our target
<seb128> since the boot measure is on a stock install
<chrisccoulson> are the defaults stored in a merged tree?
<seb128> I would not bother optimizing this case
<seb128> yes
<seb128> only the user config are not
<seb128> the reason being nfs locking issues
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> it still takes 500ms on the stock install though, even with the merged tree
<chrisccoulson> but it seems that will get worse with the per-user config too
<seb128> right
<seb128> while I appreciate that I think we should not spend too much time on things that will be replaced next time
<pitti> seb128: right, I just wondered, since switching to merged tree is a single change
<pitti> but right, if we have an empty user tree, it shouldn't matter
<pitti> Verarbeite Trigger fÃ¼r python-gmenu ...
<pitti> Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/desktop.de_DE.UTF-8.cache...
 * pitti hugs dpkg triggers
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: all working now; I forgot to construct a path to the .desktop file when reading the cache, that was the reason for menu entries not working
<pitti> and cache is now handled automatically
 * pitti uploads, let the bugs come all over me!
<pitti> so the plan is now to drop those applets and disable xsplash for now, and see where we are?
<seb128> pitti, yes, I did the gdm change some minutes ago
<pitti> \o/
<seb128> I will do the gnome-panel one this afternoon
<pitti> you rock
<seb128> thanks, you too!
<seb128> once we have those I will do an official mark
<seb128> then try again with gnome-session modified to start things together
<seb128> just to see how that performs now
<seb128> I will also do the compiz change to not depends on extra if Amaranth doesn't upload today
<seb128> that wins another 0.5 second
<mvo> Ng: hi, did you had trouble with asciidoc and not finding docbook-xsl.css too? I used -r /etc/asciidoc as a workaround, but that seems wrong that I have to do that explicitely - what do you think?
<Ng> mvo: my memory is like an empty rock, so if I did have that problem I've apparently completely forgotten about it ;)
<mvo> Ng: ok, no problem :)
<Amaranth> seb128: I pushed the changes needed to remove plugins-extra to bzr, don't have time to build and upload right now
<Amaranth> I guess we cleaned up active_plugins handling some time ago, wasn't as bad as I thought
<seb128> Amaranth, will you do that today or should I do it?
<seb128> it's just a depends to suggests change
<seb128> no need to test build or anything
<Amaranth> oh, I dropped it completely
<seb128> that's good too
<Amaranth> but I gotta go now, if you can wait 8 hours I can do it
<seb128> as long as it's not depends or recommends
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will wait for you to upload
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<rickspencer3> doing well
<rickspencer3> meetings galore this morning
<pitti> good morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> including covering our blueprints for lucid with sabdfl
<rickspencer3> :o
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti how is it going?
<seb128> rickspencer3, good luck ;-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, good, pitti rocked as usual and landed the menu caching changes
<rickspencer3> chouette!
<seb128> rickspencer3, I've also commented xsplash use from gdm btw
<seb128> it wins us almost 1 second of login time
<seb128> let me know if you are against it
<rickspencer3> I not against anything that gets us to the 4 second budget at this stage
<rickspencer3> so, good job
<seb128> ok thanks ;-)
 * seb128 wonders what is the publishing today
<seb128> still no gnome-menus update
<seb128> or what is the publisher doing rather
<kenvandine> seb128, good and bad news on the indicator stuff... with the new indicators coming that will add more indicator services, but tedg is concerned about the startup time and will add some code to help profile it
<seb128> kenvandine, current indicators use cpu for almost 1.5 seconds
<seb128> which is over 25% budget for the whole login
<kenvandine> tedg, ^^
<kenvandine> not cool
<seb128> really not no
<seb128> I'm pondering dropping the applet from the default config just to reach the target as we did for xsplash
<seb128> but I guess that would be controversial ;-)
<seb128> we will need to put some pressure on improving those though or we will really have to consider that
<kenvandine> are we planning to keep xsplash out?
 * kenvandine thinks it defeats the whole purpose of having xsplash at all
<seb128> well we said we would meet the target even if that means doing some compromises...
<seb128> then we can discuss those choices
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> we can't have everything
<seb128> I expect xsplash could also be improved
<seb128> the current animation use too much cpu
<seb128> but Cody said he has ideas on how to improve that maybe
<seb128> I think we will bring it back during the cycle but it will need to be less cpu intensive
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - you have "gnome-session: investigate 1 second delay between start and activity:" assigned to you in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed. we can close this one now can't we?
<seb128> pitti, do you know if launchpad has issues?
<seb128> pitti, gnome-menus is still not published there
<seb128> chrisccoulson: that's gconf?
<pitti> not that I know of
<seb128> pitti, ignore me I'm using the french mirror
 * seb128 switches to archive.ubuntu.com
<pitti> :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i detailed all the findings on the spec :)
<chrisccoulson> mostly gconf, but some dk-power too
<kenvandine> seb128, i did see a merge proposal from bratsche for xsplash that pre-calculates the animation
<kenvandine> last night
<seb128> chrisccoulson: please add DONE on the whiteboard line then
<seb128> kenvandine, oh nice, I need to try that
<kenvandine> seb128,  https://code.launchpad.net/~bratsche/xsplash/precompute-throbber/+merge/15564
<kenvandine> seb128, i bet he would love to see how it compares
<bratsche> kenvandine, seb128: Yeah, I'm not sure how much that will help but it seemed worth a try.
<kenvandine> hey bratsche!
<bratsche> yo
<seb128> bratsche, I will try and let you know how it goes
<tedg> When I log in with a guest account and look at the CPU time taken by all indicators not a single one even registers:  ps -e -o user,time,cmd | grep /usr/lib/indicator | grep ^guest
<seb128> tedg, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091203-1.png
<seb128> tedg, look at the bottom for the chart
<seb128> indicator-applet
<tedg> seb128: It's async -- that doesn't mean that it's actually using that much time, it just uses time when it gets it.
<seb128> it has almost full cpu use for 1.8 seconds
<seb128> tedg, we are cpu bounded on this config
<seb128> it's using cpu we need
<tedg> seb128: But a line doesn't mean anything in boot chart.  That's not precise enough to prove anything useful.
<seb128> what do you mean a line?
<tedg> A blue line.
<seb128> it means cpu activity
<tedg> It means *some* CPU activity -- not CPU activity for the entire time.
<tedg> If it ran one instruction in that watch time it'd show up as a line in bootchart.
<seb128> well it's the only process doing a zillion line around
<seb128> tedg, well, worded differently I just removed it and did a new chart
<seb128> we win 0.8 seconds on boot without the applet
<seb128> doing an another one now to see if the difference is constant
<seb128> but I usually get 0.1 to 0.3 seconds variations
<tedg> I'm not saying we're perfect, and that we can't be better, but I don't think we're using 1.5s of CPU time.
<seb128> tedg, right, 0.9 seconds on this one
<kenvandine> seb128, on my laptop i see far less cpu for the indicator but i see IO
<seb128> well maybe not
<seb128> but you cost 0.8 to 0.9 seconds on our 4 seconds budget
<seb128> confirmed by several boots on the reference box now
<seb128> I've no good explanation of *why*
<tedg> Are we the only Bonobo based applet in the default config?
<seb128> but that's what measures say
<seb128> no
<seb128> trash costs 0.3 seconds
<seb128> for reference
<tedg> So I'll blame Bonobo for 0.3 of our 0.8 ;)
<seb128> fair enough
<seb128> I'm wanting at least half of the 0.6 remaining back
<seb128> or 0.5 remaining
<seb128> you are the longer applet after the menus by far
<seb128> 0.2 to 0.3 seconds is the cost for almost all the other ones
<seb128> which I think it's basically bonobo ping pong + init
<tedg> Okay, we'll look into it.  Right now, I'm not sure where it's going -- so it's hard to say where I'll get it back :)
<seb128> is there any other data I can provide you?
<seb128> the session is a stock one
<tedg> I don't think so right now.  We'll get some logging in and setup, then I'll want those logs :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know when you need something there
<seb128> I've the box used only for testing and I reboot it a lot ;-)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> pitti, you screwed menus ;-)
<pitti> ?
<seb128> pitti, I'm not preferences or admins menus
<seb128> only the software-center in admin in fact
<pitti> argh
<seb128> and it's not at the bottom of applications anymore
 * pitti sighs
<seb128> I'm -> I've
<seb128> do you get the issue too?
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> yes, seems I do
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> I'm not alone at least ;-)
<pitti> seb128: seems to be my "break it" day; this morning my mailbox and IRC freaked out because I broke udev..
 * seb128 hugs pitti, don't worry only those who do nothing break nothing
<pitti> tseliot, rickspencer3: our call is on Rick's conf line?
<rickspencer3> pitti, good idea
<tseliot> I was about to ask the same question
<pitti> I'm in, waiting
<tseliot> me too
<rickspencer3> jeez, I'm only 1 minute late
<rickspencer3> tseliot, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-proprietary-drivers
<bryce> heya
<rickspencer3> hi bryce
<bryce> rickspencer3, sorry I thought the call was 8:30 not 8:00... still want me to call in?
<rickspencer3> bryce, we just got off
<rickspencer3> I'll send you your list of action items
<bryce> ok
<rickspencer3> bryce, we have you signed up to own pulse audio for lucid now
<rickspencer3> </troll>
<bryce> teasing the X guy before he's had coffee, eh?
<bryce> brave brave man
<tseliot> hehe
<pitti> argh argh
<pitti> *pitti has quit (X server segfault)
<seb128> pitti, what else did you break?
<seb128> oh, only xorg
<bryce> pitti, o_O
<pitti> j/k
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: my current breakage is the WI tracker, again
<pitti> that, then menus
<pitti> seems like a whack-a-bug day today :/
<seb128> I would argue that menus are higher importance than some tracker ;-)
 * seb128 runs away from rickspencer3
<pitti> yay, my launchpadlib branch was merged
<jcastro> seb128, I noticed gwibber isn't on the app indicator list, is that on purpose or an oversight?
<hugolp> hi, I am trying to use empathy for 9.10 from the launchpad ppa but there is some incompatibility with the packages
<seb128> jcastro, where did you get your gwibber from? I guess it's a kenvandine question
<seb128> jcastro, it's up to the software to ship the launcher
<hugolp> in order to install empathy-common wich is needed for empathy is asking me to desinstall ubuntu-desktop
<jcastro> seb128, no I mean on the list of apps to port to the app indicator
<jcastro> it works fine in real life.
<seb128> hugolp, known issue, kenvandine said he would look at it
<mpt> mvo, glatzor: If someone inserts a CD containing .deb packages, how can you tell whether it's a CD for a previous Ubuntu version, the current version, a future version, or another Debian-based OS entirely?
<seb128> jcastro, oh ok, I though you said it was not in the message indicator launchers
<hugolp> seb128: ok
<seb128> jcastro, it's probably an oversight
<jcastro> ok I will add it
<kenvandine> jcastro, why would it be on the list?
<seb128> it has a notification area icon?
<kenvandine> it already uses the indicator
<mvo> mpt: there is a .diskinfo/ dir for official ones, but we do not really have great standards for addon cds
<kenvandine> optional
<mvo> mpt: the closest was/is the g-a-i addon cd
<jcastro> yeah but it's going into main right?
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> well don't we want to patch that optional codepath?
<mvo> mpt: but that should be fomalized and it also will not work with s-c anymore because the way the meta-data is handled changed
<jcastro> kenvandine, I am talking about the thing ted is working on
<kenvandine> seb128, true
<seb128> what if there is no message indicator applet installed
<kenvandine> jcastro, add it :)
<jcastro> everything that uses the tray will need to be ported
<kenvandine> just so if people try to enable it, it will do the right thing :)
<mpt> mvo, what is "the g-a-i addon cd"?
<seb128> jcastro, I think kenvandine's was arguing that it doesn't use the tray since it uses the messaging indicator
<mvo> mpt: it sounds to me like we want a) addon and b) new releases, but they look like two different use cases
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah... by default it shouldn't use it
<kenvandine> but you can turn that on
<jcastro> seb128, I'll add it to the list so when we get there we at least look at it
 * jcastro will play it safe
<kenvandine> so if you do i guess we want to change the behavior a bit
<seb128> jcastro, right
<seb128> we need 3 cases now
<mpt> mvo, proper handling of the CD is a v3/v4 thing. Right now I'm just concerned with giving the CD item a sensible label in the navigation pane.
<seb128> using message indicator, or application indicator or notification area
<mvo> mpt: have you looked at how software-properties does it? is that representation good enough? the .diskinfo stuff is pretty much what we currently have
<mpt> mvo, unfortunately I'm not in the office and don't have any CDs handy :-)
<mvo> cat /cdrom/.disk/info
<mvo> Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" - Release i386 (20091028.1)
<seb128> pitti, bug #491937 is yours
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491937 in gnome-menus ""system" pulldown empty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491937
<seb128> pitti, I've assigned it to you I hope it's ok
<pitti> seb128: thanks! sure it is
<glatzor> mvo, I am now nearly done with the API review of aptdaemon
<glatzor> mvo, So I make a stable fork of the branch lp:aptdaemon/0.1.x
<mvo> glatzor: great!
<mvo> glatzor: btw, see #packagekit, apparently some string matiching is not ideal
<pitti> bryce: please use "bryceharrington" for WI assignees (your LP name)
<bryce> pitti, bleah
<chrisccoulson> awesome, it's nearly friday already :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ;-)
<chrisccoulson> 2.5 day weeks are great :)
<chrisccoulson> especially when 2 of those are spent on a course
<ccheney> ugh i think evolution just ate an email i tried to send :(
<ccheney> hmm no, just sticking it in the wrong folder, very odd
<mpt> mvo, perfect, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hehe
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just did some more gconf tests here. you're right, the per-user tree isn't taking a lot of time - it is reading /var/lib/gconf/defaults/%gconf-tree.xml which takes all that time
<chrisccoulson> it's 2.6MB :-/
<pitti> rickspencer3: check this out: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<pitti> rickspencer3: (scroll down)
<pitti> courtesy by cjwatson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: does it call gettext on any of those?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. when you strace it, any mo files involved?
<pitti> it shouldn't ideally
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it doesn't look like it
<chrisccoulson> it just needs to read the whole file to build the tree
<pitti> AFAIR, when I wrote those bits, gettext() should only be called on demand
<pitti> ok
<pitti> that sucks
<chrisccoulson> it does :(
<chrisccoulson> i'm not going to give up just yet though
<pitti> it also means that it keeps the stuff in memory, all the time, "just in cas"
<pitti> e
<pitti> but as seb128 says, gconf's days are counted anyway
<chrisccoulson> yeah, but we've still got to put up with it for one more cycle
<chrisccoulson> and it's currently quite a time waster
<pitti> *nod*
<chrisccoulson> anyway, dinner time for me now :)
<pitti> likewise :)
<pitti> is it important to be XML?
<pitti> could it be any faster with a simple two-column text file?
<kenvandine> pitti, cool... work items included in the report, awesome!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: also, where does this file actually store the default values?
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks to cjwatson :)
<pitti>                                 <dir name="crop">
<pitti>                                         <entry name="aspect_ratio_height" mtime="1257778535" schema="/schemas/apps/gthumb/dialogs/crop/aspect_ratio_height"/>
<pitti> is it just me, or is ther just about zero information here?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it might be worth investigating what happens if all the entries which don't have a <default>/<*value> tag will just get dropped
<pitti> seb128: ^ could that work?
<pitti> the first value is 8% into the file
<pitti> chrisccoulson: good catch anyway!
<kenvandine> parsing xml is slow :/
<seb128> pitti, not sure if gconf needs a mapping of existant keys or not
<seb128> would be worth playing with in any case
<mpt> glatzor or mvo: I just added a third-party repository and the "Comment" field in Software Sources was populated automatically. Where does that text come from in the repository?
<mpt> Is that from /.disk/info too?
<mpt> or is it from the Release file?
<mpt> hm, looks like Release file Label is what I want
<pitti> rickspencer3_, didrocks: any chance to finish drafting of  desktop-lucid-quickly{,-templates} soon (deadline is today)? at least add WIs?
<rickspencer3_> pitti, SURE
<rickspencer3_> sorry, I can get to it maybe tomorrow or this weekend
<pitti> the WIs are probably a bit more urgent
<mvo> pitti: hi, is the update-gnome-menus-cache your new work?
<pitti> mvo: I know, I know, it's broken; looking at it now ;)
<pitti> mvo: yes, from today
<mvo> pitti: it seems to be crashing during hardy->lucid because gmenu can not be imported (the old pysupport thing)
<pitti> oh noes
<pitti> mvo: curious, though; does it actually fail the package?
<mvo> well, just add a try: except: and a trigger, that should be fine
<pitti>         update-gnome-menus-cache /usr/share/applications > "$cache.dpkg-new" || rm -f "$cache.dpkg-new"
<mvo> no, ist just a crash file
<pitti> ah
<pitti> because for reasons like that I wrote it like above
<mvo> but the upgrader-tester is picky about crash files generated during the upgrades
<pitti> if it ever fails, it removes the cache to not leave inconsistent data around
<pitti> and not fail the package postinst
<mvo> right, its not breaking aanything, its just crashing :)
<mvo> (which is great btw)
<pitti> mvo: what's the particular exception?
<pitti> mvo: just an ImportError?
<pitti> mvo: I don't generally like hiding those, but for  this kind of script a mere stderr message is fine
<mvo> yes, just that
<mvo> I can give you the crash file, but its really just a import error for gmenu
<pitti> nevermind
<pitti> mvo: btw
<pitti> mvo: it's AWESOME that you discover stuff like that only a few hours after it's introduced
 * pitti hugs mvo
<pitti> mvo: fixed in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-menus/ubuntu/revision/28
<mvo> thanks pitti!
 * mvo hugs pitti
 * pitti goes back to fixing the thing to not mess up your menus
<pitti> Riddell: is bug 484802  already fixed in lucid by chance?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484802 in kdeedu "SRU: Parley fails to initialize Python scripts" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484802
<pitti> mvo: btw, we support dapper->lucid upgrades?
<pitti> mvo: I'm afraid me and other people have dropped a *lot* of upgrade quirks from edgy/feisty/gutsy/hardy
<pitti> so far I assumed that we only support dapper->hardy->lucid
<seb128> oh, same here
<pitti> mvo: oh, nevermind; you said hardy->lucid
<seb128> I cleaned all the pre-hardy hacks...
<pitti> where the heck did I read "dapper"?
<Tm_T> pitti: from your box running dapper?
<pitti> the only thing I have left from dapper is a chroot..
<mvo> yeah, no dapper->lucid, that would be ... woah
<pitti> *phew* :)
<mvo> the only thing I have left is memories :)
<pitti> "dragon! duck! dragon! duck! STFU!"
 * mvo is not entirely correct, he got a test-kvm machine that one day should test dapper->hardy->lucid
<pitti> "my other computer is a 3 GB image file" :)
 * pitti hugs kvm
<mvo> heh :)
<didrocks> pitti, rickspencer3_ : trying to finish WI (I only have a local draft) on Quickly for tomorrow afternoon (very busy week). I'll ping you for ack when it's done. Sorry for the delay
<pitti> didrocks: no problem at all, was just a gentle reminder :)
<pitti> sorry if I act like you were already employed
<didrocks> pitti: no pb, reminding is always good (even if gtg has all those for me ;))
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the XML file is parsed in 4k blocks at the moment
<chrisccoulson> do you think that is optimal for a SSD?
<chrisccoulson> (i honestly don't know)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it shouldn't matter really
<pitti> ureadahead does all of that
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wasn't sure really
<pitti> it's the CPU processing that hurts
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it looks like we could cut this file at least by half by throwing out all the noise
<pitti> needs to be tested, of course
<pitti> but if that file doesn't provide any default, then it shold be possible to just omit it entirely
<pitti> we need to check that it still looks sensible in gconf-editor, though
<pitti> that might need the full thing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - removing all the formatting might help a bit
<chrisccoulson> it's full of tabs and white space
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I actually meant removing all the keys withoout a default/value
<pitti> I don't think that the tabs/white space matter a lot
<pitti> but it has to parse this thing into a huge internal treee
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you find keys that don't have a default value?
<chrisccoulson> do those keys not reference the schema (which has the default value)?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: most just reference a schema
<pitti> but when I look at this:
<pitti>         <dir name="apps">
<pitti>                 <dir name="gthumb">
<pitti>                         <dir name="dialogs">
<pitti>                                 <dir name="crop">
<pitti>                                         <entry name="aspect_ratio_height" mtime="1257778535" schema="/schemas/apps/gthumb/dialogs/crop/aspect_ratio_height"/>
<pitti> wouldn't it be prudent to assume that the schema for a key a/b/c/name is /schemas/a/b/c/name ?
<chrisccoulson> quite possibly
<pitti> many keys there actually have a default value, description, etc.
<pitti> ArneGoetje: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-font-selection mentions "ian-farrel", but I can't find a person with this name on LP; it's not a valid LP name
<bryce> pitti, heya quick question
<bryce> pitti, we've got a bunch of X packages needing sync'd before we can pull in xserver 1.7
<bryce> pitti, see http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/PkgList/versions_current.html
<pitti> oooh
<pitti> bryce: want me to sync them now?
<bryce> pitti, eventually these would get pulled in automatically via debian testing, but if we're going to make 1.7 by a1 we kinda need them sync'd soonish
<bryce> please, that would totally rock
<pitti> by all means
<pitti> bryce: ah, you actually filed bugs?
<bryce> pitti, yes
<bryce> (isn't that the normal process?)
<bryce> pitti, note that some of the syncs are from unstable, some are from experimental
<pitti> bryce: it is, don't worry
<rickspencer3_> pitti, seb128 ...
<pitti> ok, here then
<rickspencer3_> so sabdfl was totally adamant that our plan about removing the bottom panel and trash applet and show desktop ...
<pitti> rickspencer3_: OOI, what about metacity?
<rickspencer3_> was not something that we could do
<rickspencer3_> he was quiet on that, so I think we're okay for now
<rickspencer3_> but the panel changes, I would ask that we pull those back if possible
<seb128> hum
<seb128> we will never reach that target if we have no flexibility...
<seb128> but alright
<rickspencer3_> we just need to talk about it more
<seb128> with who?
<seb128> we had team consensus during the meeting
<rickspencer3_> right, but not sabdfl
<rickspencer3_> he was quite adamant
<seb128> to a specific point?
<rickspencer3_> he rarely is directive with me, so when he is, I feel that we owe him the courtesy of following his wishes
<pitti> well, can't have the cake and eat it too..
<rickspencer3_> according to my notes ..
<rickspencer3_> removing the bottom panel, the trash, and "show desktop
<rickspencer3_> we need to have replacements for these before we can propose removing them
<pitti> but well, he's right by definition, so let's revert it tomorrow
<pitti> I'd still like to see a bootchart of this, to see how much it gains us
<seb128> :-(
<rickspencer3_> or get his buy in first
<seb128> how do we go to get his buy?
<rickspencer3_> seb128, he is right to challenge us on this
<pitti> we can remove the two starters?
<seb128> where is the best discussion medium for that?
<rickspencer3_> pitti, yes
<rickspencer3_> seb128, I'm not sure, let me think about it
<seb128> ok
<seb128> do we want to let it for the night just to get quick feedback and measure boot impact?
<rickspencer3_> I need to have some lunch, you guys are working too late
<seb128> or should we revert right now?
<rickspencer3_> seb128, please revert now, then we'll put together a profiling plan tomorrow or Monday
<seb128> I'm just back from sport and dinner don't worry
<seb128> enjoy your lunch
<rickspencer3_> okay
<seb128> ok :-(
<rickspencer3_> seb128, don't be bummed, we'll figure it out
<seb128> (slightly annoyed to have waste efforts on that when I don't finish to do what I want to do)
<rickspencer3_> it's just a small challenge to us, we've faced much worse before
<rickspencer3_> sorry seb128 :(
<seb128> rickspencer3_, don't worry that's my problem, I'm just a bit grumpy to have spent time for nothing
<rickspencer3_> well, look at it that you will reuse the work
<seb128> rickspencer3_, not yout fault
<rickspencer3_> we just have to figure out how to do it right
<rickspencer3_> "right" means doesn't freak out key stake holders
<seb128> I will let you deal with that
<seb128> I think we followed standard open procedure on this one
<seb128> discussion in public meeting, summary sent on lists, etc
<seb128> but right
<seb128> let's undo for now and figure that later
<rickspencer3_> seb128, thank you
<pitti> seb128: you can keep the starters dropped at least..
<seb128> it's not making a significant speed difference anyway
<rickspencer3_> oh?
<seb128> pitti, right now I prefer to just undo the upload that spend extra time to get that wrong
<rickspencer3_> seb128, are you saying that the changes don't seem to have much impact?
<pitti> seb128: agreed
<seb128> rickspencer3_, well, ie 0.5seconds
<rickspencer3_> bummer
<seb128> but we need to add those 0.5s to reach target
<rickspencer3_> of course 20 .5 second changes = 10 seconds
<seb128> exactly
<rickspencer3_> okay, let's not give up on this, just view it as something we need to think about a bit more
<seb128> ok
 * Amaranth waves
<rickspencer3_> hi Amaranth :)
<seb128> if you can get specific concerns
<rickspencer3_> seb128, yeah, I do
<seb128> dropping the trash applet is the best win there
<seb128> it avoids doing trash backend init etc
<rickspencer3_> hmmm
<rickspencer3_> okay, let's think about how to make the applet load faster
<rickspencer3_> like can it do the init on first use?
 * rickspencer3_ really has to leave
<rickspencer3_> thanks seb128
<seb128> not if you want to display correct full or empty icon
<rickspencer3_> you are truly the bestest
<seb128> rickspencer3_, enjoy lunch!
 * kenvandine hugs seb128
<seb128> see you tomorrow!
 * seb128 hugs kenvandine too
<seb128> rickspencer3_, you rock too, thanks ;-)
 * rickspencer3_ notes that we could cache the correct icon at shutdown
<rickspencer3_> by the way, before I go ...
<seb128> rickspencer3_, let's talk about that later
<rickspencer3_> the review went very very well
<seb128> cool
<seb128> you will tell me tomorrow
<rickspencer3_> bye bye
<seb128> see you
<Amaranth> so my boot times have suddenly gotten very impressive
<Amaranth> I think it's because my max IO is now 94MB/s
<geser> what did you have to do to get it?
<Amaranth> buy a new HD :)
<seb128> Amaranth, nice ;-)
<Amaranth> now I just need to figure out how to get KMS turned off again...
<seb128> why?
<Amaranth> no brightness control
<pitti> i915.modeset=0
<Amaranth> in grub?
<Amaranth> I was trying i915 modeset=0 in initramfs-tools modules file
<pitti> hm, I'd just set it in grub
<Riddell> pitti: bug 484802 is fixed in lucid yes
<Riddell> I've updatd the bug status
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484802 in kdeedu "SRU: Parley fails to initialize Python scripts" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484802
<pitti> Riddell: great, thank you!
<seb128> hey rob
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<pitti> bryce: I synced most of them now; LP goes down in 2 mins, so I need to do the rest tomorrow morning
<pitti> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, the gnome-games rename upstream don't seem a really good idea...
<pitti> bryce: btw, the fastest way for archive admins is an IRC ping "please sync from experimental: foo bar baz  (no commas, etc.)
<robert_ancell> ?
<robert_ancell> seb128, you mean debian doesn't like the package split?
<bryce> pitti, ok thanks
<Amaranth> hmm, if I split compiz-plugins into individual plugin packages each one needs to Provides/Replaces the last uploaded compiz-plugins package, right?
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, I just noticed your commit about gnometris being renamed to an unclear name
<Amaranth> crap I'll have to wait until launchpad comes back to do a compiz upload to remove plugins-extra
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's a shame to have a tetris game without tetris in the name ;-)
<seb128> Amaranth, yes
<seb128> Amaranth, yes
<Amaranth> alright
<seb128> Amaranth, how do you want to split those now?
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh the quadrapassel and fell-swoop names?  I think they're awful too
<seb128> robert_ancell, right
<kenvandine> what was it renamed too?
<seb128> who decided on that?
<Amaranth> so I'm thinking after splitting compiz-plugins and compiz-fusion-plugins-main I'll make the compiz source package generate a compiz-plugins metapackage that depends on the ones we want installed by default
<kenvandine> sad it can't just be named tetris :/
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure who decided on them
<Amaranth> and each plugin will depend on the plugins it needs (based on checking depends in the xml files)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, gnometris->quadrapassel same-gnome->swell-foop
<Amaranth> after that I get to start figuring out how to stop using the XML files completely
<kenvandine> that sucks :/
<Amaranth> and I really wish I could statically link some plugins into the compiz binary but I dunno if that'd actually help
<kenvandine> seb128, i had prepared the gtk upload based on what was in bzr... then realized 2.19.1 was uploaded to lucid and not merged into bzr :/
<kenvandine> seb128, so i did that and pushed the branch (without my patches)
<kenvandine> and now prepared it against 2.19.1
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> doing a test build now, assuming my laptop doesn't overheat again
<seb128> kenvandine, that's because 2.19 is a direct sync from Debian
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i should have checked :/
<pitti> seb128: ok, I fixed the capplets/admin menu
<pitti> seb128: the only thing that's left broken is app-center
<seb128> pitti, you rock
<pitti> it's still in the admin menu
<pitti> seems I need to figure out the magic that makes it appear in the Apps menu in the first place..
<seb128> pitti, look at the bottom of applications.menu
<seb128> pitti, in /etc/xdg/menus
<pitti> right, I saw that
<pitti> I mean code-wise, and how the caching breaks it
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: don't worry, I'll figure it out
<Amaranth> oh goody, someone else gets to experience the joys of the xdg menu spec
<pitti> bryce: ok, it's still alive, synced all bug bug 491051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491051 in x11proto-input "[Sync Request] Please sync x11proto-input (1.5.0-2) from Debian [unstable] (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491051
<pitti> s/bug bug/but bug/
<pitti> ah, that's another one which says "unstable" and means "experimental"
 * pitti syncs
<bryce> ah
<pitti> yay, all in
 * pitti watches the buildds squeak, crank, and sweat
<bryce> pitti, were all of the experimental syncs mis-titled?
<pitti> bryce: no, just 4
<bryce> hrm weird
<bryce> since I used a script to do it, I would have expected them all to be right, or all wrong
<pitti> oh, https://edge.launchpad.net/builders is full of "building private source" which might explain the delay in shutting down LP :)
<pitti> bryce: the changelog in teh description said "experimental", bug the bug title said "unstable"
<pitti> (see #491051)
<pitti> oh, hmm
<pitti> bryce: I now actually synced x11proto-input 2.0-1
<pitti> while the title said "1.5.0-2"
<bryce> 2.0-1 is more correct
<pitti> okay, *phew*
<pitti> the description says 2.0, too
<pitti> bryce: btw, does that mean "xinput 2 protocol"?
<bryce> we already have 1.5.0-2
<bryce> pitti, that's correct
<pitti> right, that's why the unstable sync failed
<bryce> pitti, XI2 is the major new feature that xserver 1.7 brings
<pitti> bryce: does that further mean that we can now use key codes >= 256?
<bryce> ah, not sure on that point
<bryce> the 256 limit is due to a X11 protocol limitation IIRC
<pitti> like KEY_ZOOM, KEY_NEXT, KEY_ADDRESSBOOK, and the like
<pitti> right, ISTR that xi2 was to rectify that
<bryce> not sure if XI2 provides a way around that limitation.  maybe...
<bryce> I"ll ask
<pitti> we'll see
<pitti> don't worry for now
 * pitti was just curious
<Amaranth> I'm pretty sure it does
<tjaalton> I think it would need XKB2 too
<Amaranth> keycodes are 32 bit in XI2
<tjaalton> right
<Amaranth> yeah, you'd need xkb2 so it knew how to deal with it
<pitti> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11227#c26
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 11227 in Input/Core "Allow > 255 keycodes" [Enhancement,New]
<pitti> tjaalton: the bug mentions that, yes
<tjaalton> pitti: yep, I've read that bug a couple of times :)
 * pitti tries something new and goes to bed before midnight
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
 * seb128 tries something new and work on friday this week ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw I think you asked about introspection the other day, I've sorted most of it today I think
<robert_ancell> seb128, so gnome-games now installs?
<seb128> robert_ancell, not yet, things are still building
<Amaranth> does gobject-introspection still pull in most of a GNOME build environment?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, good morning
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
 * rickspencer3 is reading back scroll
<rickspencer3> lots happened in the 1.5 hours I was gone@
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, we were supposed to have a call but I blew you off :(
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, np
<rickspencer3> call now?
<robert_ancell> sure
<rickspencer3> pitti, added workitems to quickly blueprints
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-04
<ArneGoetje> pitti: typo. it's iain-farrell. Will change it later, when LP is out of read-only mode again.
<rickspencer3> aaarg
<rickspencer3> stupid read only launchpad ate the work items I added
<rickspencer3> and I didn't save my work :(
<rickspencer3> pitti, looks like I failed to get the work items on, I'll do it tomorrow
<fagan> rickspencer3: ouch
<bryce> bummer
 * fagan is using vb at the moment which I hear rickspencer3 had some hand in making :)
<rickspencer3> fagan, nah, not really
<rickspencer3> I worked on the Visual Studio shell for a while starting in '98
<rickspencer3> and did a lot of work with C# language V2 and the Visual Studio editor
<rickspencer3> all as a usability engineer
<fagan> rickspencer3: Oh cool
 * fagan is just doing a crappy college project and would prefer to be using quickly
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> of course
<rickspencer3> hah
<rickspencer3> launchpad emailed me a diff before it blew away my changes
<rickspencer3> still read only though, I'll add 'em back tomorrow
<rickspencer3> good night all, see you tomorrow
 * Amaranth starts thinking extreme for compiz
<fagan> Amaranth: how extreme?
 * fagan is going to miss wobbly windows when gnome-shell comes in
<Amaranth> load these plugins: core,move,resize,place,decoration,animation,ccp,gnomecompat,text,commands,wall,snap,expo,staticswitcher,regex,workarounds,fade,session
<Amaranth> no more scale, zoom, dbus, etc
<Amaranth> I'd cut expo from the defaults too, actually
<Amaranth> perhaps regex so long as our default settings don't use it
<Amaranth> then you can get rid of text too
<fagan> Amaranth: well cutting stuff that isnt used is always good :)
<Amaranth> and you end up with a crappy metacity
<Amaranth> fagan: I just cut everything that the metacity compositor doesn't implement
<fagan> metacity is awesome
<fagan> :)
<Amaranth> Except we'd need an extra level in Visual Effects if we did this
<Amaranth> Because Extra should then change it back to what we were using before
<fagan> and it should be called awesome
<Amaranth> But in that case I dunno how much it'd actually help because we'd still have the plugins installed which means ccp reads the data for them and loads the gconf settings for them
<bryce> fagan, only if the monitor physically shakes when you use it
<fagan> bryce: I think thats compiz's drunk mode
<Amaranth> I really hope splitting up the plugins into separate packages and only installing what we use gets compiz fast enough to keep it in
<Amaranth> because if I have to backport the 0.9 plugin system upstream is going to hang me
<fagan> Amaranth: Well if gnome-shell is ready for lucid+1 then this will more than likely be the last release of compiz in ubuntu
<Amaranth> fagan: From what I've heard I sort of doubt that
<Amaranth> fagan: Probably lucid+2
 * fagan doesnt think it will be ready for another year
<fagan> lucid+3 at the latest
<Amaranth> at which point I start throwing together bits from XFCE and GNOME 2.x and make my own spin using compiz :)
<Amaranth> oh, and gnome-do/docky :)
<fagan> Amaranth: http://shanefagan.com/2009/12/03/more-gnome-shell-messing-from-me/
<fagan> :)
<fagan> docky + gnome-shell
<Amaranth> eh
<Amaranth> gnome-shell still feels too much like it's getting in my way
<fagan> I like it, plus when you get used to the super key its very easy
<Amaranth> and I disagree with the architecture
<Amaranth> It would not have been nearly as difficult as they say to have gnome-shell and mutter be separate
<Amaranth> If they did that I could make it work with compiz in no time
<Amaranth> But when I asked about it they told me to go use XFCE. I then worked on XFCE for a couple months and got commit access :P
<fagan> Id say it wouldnt take a lot of work to get it using compiz but since shell is using clutter the window manager could use it
<fagan> Amaranth: I think when shell is released lots of distros are going to stay with panel
<Amaranth> The thing that makes me wonder if we're going to see gnome-shell used at all is the lack of 3D drivers for everything
<Amaranth> What do you use if gnome-shell can't run?
<fagan> Metacity?
<Amaranth> The funny thing is gnome-shell/mutter is dropping non-3D users while compiz git works right now without compositing and xrender compositing is planned
<Amaranth> fagan: So we have to ship metacity, gnome-panel, and friends forever but they are completely unmaintained. Awesome.
<bryce> why do they call it 'gnome-shell' anyway?
<bryce> what is shelly about it?
<fagan> bryce: its a new UI shell for gnome
<Amaranth> I dunno, they keep using the term "desktop shell"
<fagan> it makes sense
<Amaranth> I know Windows calls the explorer process a "shell" so I guess they get it from there
<bryce> huh
<fagan> All I know is that we need a redesign weather or not gnome-shell is right is debatable but at least its something new
<fagan> Panel is very dated
<bryce> I would just like something which behaves itself when I do xrandry things
<fagan> I just want something a little more fault tolorent than panel. If panel crashes it trys to start itself again but if its a major crash it keeps trying to start again and makes the desktop completely unusable
<fagan> panel is a pain when it crashes
<bryce> ick
<fagan> I think the crash problem is solved (slightly) by gnome shell not allowing applets embedded in the panel
<fagan> bryce Amaranth I would like if we just shipped ubuntu netbook edition as the default desktop because its a lot sleeker and a lot more stable than shell
<Amaranth> fagan: Every app marked to be restarted automatically by the session does that
<Amaranth> when working on some nautilus patches I actually exhausted the number of connections I could have to the X server due to nautilus restarting and crashing over and over and apport showing a dialog for each crash
<fagan> Amaranth: I know but its a real pain if you have a segfault
<Amaranth> had to restart X to fix it
<bryce> let's port UNE to Wayland :-)
<fagan> Wayland?
<Amaranth> wayland is awesome :)
<Amaranth> and actually still needs a "compositor"
<Amaranth> It does most of the work itself though so what it really needs is an app to implement effects
<fagan> Whats wayland?
<Amaranth> a display server written from scratch to take advantage of things like gallium, KMS, GEM, etc
<fagan> ah
<bryce> fagan, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=xorg_wayland&num=1
<Amaranth> it's fast, small, and completely flicker free
<Amaranth> oh, and everything is client side
<bryce> Amaranth, have you run it?
<Amaranth> the server just composites pixmaps together and blits them
<Amaranth> bryce: nah, never got a chance to get it all setup
<Amaranth> bryce: Looks like you could do it in vmware or qemu now though
<bryce> I'm working on getting it packaged
<bryce> (off and on)
<fagan> bryce: awesome
<fagan> x.org is starting to look a little out of date
<bryce> starting?
<Amaranth> eh, wayland is an experiment, really
<Amaranth> If anything you'll end up running wayland but all your apps will be running in rootless X servers
<bryce> actually X.org is refactoring itself slowly towards modernity
<Amaranth> or wayland will run under X and let you do neat transitions for user switching
<Amaranth> bryce: Right, I was saying if wayland gets used at all by a wide audience that'll be how
<bryce> Amaranth, yep, that's my thought too
<Amaranth> wayland would help with boot times though ;)
<bryce> definitely
<bryce> another use case I could imagine is for really limited functionality devices
<Amaranth> hurry up and package it so we can switch :D
<bryce> like maybe some of the arm stuff
<Amaranth> gotta shave those seconds
<bryce> hey I found out that my failsafe-x mode boots X in <1 sec
<bryce> so if we all just switch to vesa...
<ajmitch> no thanks
<Amaranth> ooh
<ajmitch> though I did barely notice for awhile that my desktop was using nv instead of nvidia
<bryce> ajmitch, wow interesting
<Amaranth> ajmitch: If you don't use compiz you probably won't notice at all when you're using nouveau
<bryce> ajmitch, well we'll break that for you once we get nouveau in
<Amaranth> Except things will actually be fast
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I only noticed when I tried to turn compiz on :)
<Amaranth> nouveau 2D acceleration is amazing
<bryce> dinner... bbl
<ajmitch> perhaps I was just used to my desktop being slow anyway
 * fagan uses the nvidia proprietary drivers 
<lifeless> compiz? is african for 'make-my-desktop-laggy'  ?
 * lifeless bites his sarcastic fingers
<fagan> lifeless: but it looks nicer
<fagan> and notify-osd fades a lot better
<fagan> and alt+tab looks nicer
<lifeless> yes, but I like being able to alt-tab quickly
<Amaranth> nouveau makes using the metacity compositor pleasant
<fagan> and dont forget wobbly windows
<Amaranth> lifeless: It's pretty fast here...
<ajmitch> Amaranth: but will it play world of warcraft in wine yet? :)
<Amaranth> ajmitch: depends
 * fagan loves wobbly windows and misses them when he is in windows land
<Amaranth> you need the exact same chip and such as the developer who got it working, basically
<ajmitch> I doubt that the memory management of nouveau's 3d driver is adequate for wow
<Amaranth> did you beat WoW yet?
<ajmitch> that would require me spending far too much time on it
<ajmitch> so 'no thanks' :)
<fagan> Amaranth: Some guy got all but one achievement
<fagan> That dude must have 0% life
<fagan> He must be able to kick everyones ass
 * fagan gos back to making the single worst program ever made 
<fagan> (college VB project)
<ajmitch> do you feel dirty yet?
<fagan> ajmitch: I feel like I just ran threw a ditch
<ajmitch> heh
<fagan> plus its 2.30
<fagan> am
<fagan> the project is due in 12.30 hours
<fagan> and I have barely anything done
<ajmitch> good luck, and you should ignore irc for a few hours :)
<fagan> ajmitch: I know im just on a tea break
<fagan> Plus I have taxi driver in the backround
<fagan> So im happy
<pitti> Good morning
<fagan> morning
<fagan> hmmmmm
<fagan> I found a little bug in open office thats just for the Irish local
<fagan> We should be using the UK dictionary instead of not using any
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> good morning here
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> how are you today?
<seb128> good, you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. glad it's friday :)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> my pc is beeping again today
<seb128> ie loud and annoying speaker sound
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's half pitti's fault half mine on this one
 * seb128 fixes now
<pitti> ?
<seb128> pitti, you didn't commit your libgnome change to bzr
<seb128> and I didn't notice the revision was not there when merging
<seb128> so the "turn bell off" got dropped
<pitti> oops, I'm sorry
<seb128> np
<seb128> we really need hooks to check that the bzr version match the archive one
<seb128> I forget to push sometimes too...
<chrisccoulson> i've been caught out before by people forgetting to push too :)
<chrisccoulson> although, i should check the versions match too
<seb128> hum
<seb128> bryce, pitti: the xorg syncs breaked installability for gtk...
<seb128> libxi
<pitti> oh darn, how?
<seb128> depwait on libx11-dev (>= 2:1.2.99.1)
<seb128> and we have
<seb128> âlibx11â 2:1.2.2-1ubuntu1 source package in Ubuntu
<seb128> pitti, things don't build because our libx11 is too old
<seb128> we are sort of in the middle of a transition
<pitti> -> #u-devel
<seb128> nothing desktopish build now
<pitti> I need to disappear for some 2 hours
<pitti> bbl
<seb128> pitti, see you later
<seb128> maybe archive will be fixed by time you come back ;-)
<seb128> hey Keybuk
<Keybuk> hey
<seb128> ok, let's try the daily dist-upgrade and look at login
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> seb128: should bug 460535 be assigned to slomo instead of you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460535 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "Unable to play any but the first track of CD" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460535
<sabdfl> seb128: want to talk about the bottom panel piece, i can chat now if you want
<seb128> re
<seb128> just back from lunch
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you mean to assign bug 491162 to ubuntu-desktop (or desktop-bugs?)
<seb128> hey sabdfl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491162 in gdm "gdm does not start X unless remove "tty-device-added KERNEL=tty7" from upstart gdm.conf" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491162
<seb128> pitti, ^
<pitti> hey sabdfl
<seb128> sabdfl, was your concern about the 2 bars against 1? or about a particular applet?
<pitti> sabdfl: so the original idea was to drop some of the less popular applets and the starters, and merge the two panels (an idea which has been thrown around for a loong time already, but we never got to it)
<pitti> this particularly helps with smaller screens like laptops
<pitti> so you want to keep the two panels?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I didn't assign it in the first place; not sure whom to give it to yet
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, you're right, it was bryce i think. i thought it was you because i only got an e-mail when you changed the milestone (and not when it was assigned)
<chrisccoulson> sorry ;)
<seb128> pitti, does it need to be assigned at all?
<pitti> or unmilestoned
<seb128> pitti, it will be in the next upstream version so in lucid
<pitti> I gave Keybuk a quick ping, so far I don't understand it at all yet, I'm afraid
<pitti> seb128: oh, you mean gstreamer, sorry
<pitti> seb128: we just usually fix SRUs in the dev release first, that's why I milestoned it
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I prefer to stay on sync with Debian
<seb128> I'm fine being assigned to it
<seb128> milestone for beta rather if you want
 * pitti moves to alpha-2
 * fagan thinks 2 panels are nice
<Keybuk> seb128, pitti: I replied on ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> I'd rather not touch that line right now
<pitti> Keybuk: thanks
<Keybuk> because you might hide the problem
<Keybuk> I get failure to start gdm right now most boots ;)
<Keybuk> and I can definitely say it's not that line
<Keybuk> because I can debug upstart, and it says that match is TRUE :p
<Keybuk> there's certainly a bug because you removed the "and started hal"
<Keybuk> I've had a few failures where gdm runs out of respawns
<Keybuk> but that's not it either
<Keybuk> so far my *theory* is that the framebuffer (graphics) device shows up
<Keybuk> but X wants the DRM device
<Keybuk> and that hasn't shown up yet
<Keybuk> and again, you run out of respawns
 * pitti hopes the answer isn't "put back hal" :)
<pitti> I take it the "on hal" just delayed the startup far enough for the fb to get active?
<pitti> s/fb/drm/
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> X genuinely needs HAL :p
<Keybuk> you didn't fix that
<pitti> Keybuk: ... at it
<Keybuk> bryce could upload X with those patches, of course
<pitti> the libraries were synced last night
<Keybuk> :D
<tjaalton> we are close..
<Keybuk> HAL MUST DIE!
<pitti> those are needed first
<tjaalton> pitti: reminds me, two more syncs; libxcb and libxtst
<tjaalton> and libxvmc
<pitti> tjaalton: don't bother about filing bugs; doing right now
<pitti> tjaalton: experimental or unstable?
<tjaalton> pitti: done already :) libxcb - unstable, libxtst - exp, libxvmc - unstable
<Keybuk> pitti: I think we're just genuinely missing something
<Keybuk> it's on my plate to debug
 * fagan hugs pitti for killing hal hitman style
<Keybuk> and will probably look into that next week during alpha 1 freeze
<pitti> tjaalton: synced; can you please close the bugs?
<tjaalton> pitti: yep, on it
<tjaalton> thanks
<pitti> thanks to you
<pitti> Riddell: want to add some Kubuntu bits to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus for today's release team meeting?
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> i got drawn into something else
<sabdfl> we do have a design plan to get to one panel, but in order to do that we have to provide substitutes for the functions in the bottom panel today
<sabdfl> those will likely be here for 10.10, but not 10.04
<sabdfl> i don't want two panels, but I don't want to bastardise the top panel either, and in the interim the plan is to live with two till we have good solutions
<pitti> sabdfl: we thought to move the task switcher into the top panel
<pitti> sabdfl: ok, that's fine
<pitti> sabdfl: having two panels isn't actually a speed issue, we just thought that when we are at reducing the applets anyway, we can just as well get to that
<pitti> but let's defer that then
<sabdfl> ok thanks
<sabdfl> with Unity, trash is in Places, the "what's running" is handled by the launcher, and desktop reveal is part of task switching
<pitti> so those two should stay, too?
<seb128> pitti, the plan we had was to move task list and workspace switcher to the one bar
<seb128> and drop trash (which is in nautilus places anyway) and show desktop button
<seb128> we changed the clock to not display the date too
<seb128> that made the one panel fit ok on small screens and reduce some login load due to the extra applets we cleaned
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sabdfl, ^
<seb128> pitti, sorry that was not for you ;-)
<istaz> sabdfl: pitti doest it mean 10.10 won't be using gnome-shell by default?
<seb128> istaz, that has not been discussed yet, gnome-shell is not ready for that let's see how it goes in the next 6 months
<istaz> ok
<seb128> istaz, right now gnome-shell works only on machines with fast graphic and compositing and has no fallback and we will need to solve that issue anyway
<seb128> istaz, but that's discussions for next cycle
<seb128> in any case we will need to figure something for installs which don't allow running gnome-shell
<istaz> I will be quite happy if you are still going to provide support for my older computer which won't support gnome-shell :)
<seb128> see ;-)
<tedg> kenvandine: Could you set up the bustle data collector to start with the session start so then we could get all the dbus traffic to align with the bootcharts?
<kenvandine> baybe
<kenvandine> maybe
<kenvandine> i haven't looked at it yet
<kenvandine> i am still trying to get that patch into gtk :/
<kenvandine> with 2.19.1 it fails make check...
<kenvandine> so fixing those tests now
<tedg> kenvandine: I went to the session at GCDS on it, and it's cool.  I'm not sure how to put it "really early" into gnome session though.
<kenvandine> tedg, yeah, i'll look at that
<kenvandine> unless seb128 wants to take a stab at it on the target hardware :)
<kenvandine> i also want to use it to look at gwibber
<tedg> kenvandine: Don't do that, it'll make you cry ;)
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, how is empathy 2.29 going btw?
<seb128> kenvandine, I don't know how to do this dbus thing
<kenvandine> seb128, haven't touched it yet... soon though :)
<kenvandine> seb128, i haven't looked at bustle yet
<kenvandine> well, read about it
<seb128> ok, me neither
<tgpraveen11> Hi all
<kenvandine> seb128, i need to get the docs building for the app indicators too
<tedg> seb128: http://www.willthompson.co.uk/bustle/  basically  "bustle-dbus-monitor >foo.bustle" will basically dump all the stuff off the session bus into "foo.bustle"
<seb128> and I'm busy with other changes
<tgpraveen11> Sup guys?
<seb128> I'm fine doing testing but I'm too busy to learn what to do
<seb128> ie give me instructions or look for somebody else
<kenvandine> seb128, this gtk patch has turned into a pile of work :/
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll figure out a way to make it start early and you can just do it :)
<seb128> kenvandine, I was expected it to be some work indeed
<seb128> kenvandine, ok thanks
 * kenvandine finally moved the actually building of gtk to another box... so at least my laptop doesn't overheat, this weekend i really need to take it apart and check it out
<kenvandine> maybe a lose heat sink or something
<kenvandine> loose
 * kenvandine thinks evolution filtering has gotten way slower
<seb128> tedg, just curious why do you ask us to get those dbus infos where you could get those?
<seb128> tedg, you don't get the cpu use on your box?
<seb128> chrisccoulson_g1, chrisccoulson: what delay did you investigate exactly? the one before or after gnome-settings-daemon?
<seb128> or both?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - before gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091203-1.png
<seb128> the delay before compiz is 2 seconds there
<seb128> 1 before g-s-d
<seb128> one after g-s-d
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - if a process loads at boot, and then at some point calls execvp() and turns in to something else, what process name will be shown in bootchart (or does it get a new line)?
<seb128> I'm wondering what is the 1 second between seahorse and compiz
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: the second process name I think
<Keybuk> it may be the first
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that delay is just g-s-d loading isnt it?
<tedg> seb128: I don't get as much.  But I haven't run a bootchart.  I wasn't looking at the bustle data as much for just me, I thought it'd be useful for the desktop optimization in general.
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - thanks. i've been looking at the 1 second delay in gnome-session. I know where most of it is wasted now, but there is still a small amount unexplained
<chrisccoulson> but then i just realised something :)
<chrisccoulson> actually, no, what i realised only applies to my own setup, as i have seahorse-agent installed
<chrisccoulson> :(
<chrisccoulson> seahorse-agent starts up and then calls execvp() and runs gnome-session
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I don't know there is no color in the bar during that second
<Keybuk> right
<seb128> which is weird
<Keybuk> bootchart can be confusing here
<Keybuk> sometimes it helps to get the tgz and regenerate the bootchart with --no-prune
<Keybuk> then you get a whole load more detail
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - that's what I thought. so, i'm not sure gnome-session is _really_ gnome-session for some of that time:)
<seb128> Keybuk, btw do you still have daily measures?
<chrisccoulson> but i could be clutching at straws ;)
<seb128> Keybuk, could you remember me the url?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it's wierd that there is no colour. what i need to do is some profiling in g-s-d really to work out how long it really holds the session up for
<chrisccoulson> but i haven't got around to that yet:)
<Keybuk> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/  ?
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to get gconf to start early, but it's more difficult than i thought, as it needs the session bus
<chrisccoulson> but, i'm sure i can make it work :-/
<seb128> Keybuk, thanks
<seb128> Keybuk, weird I don't have similar numbers
<rickspencer3> didrocks, thanks for getting the work items into the quickly blueprints
<Keybuk> seb128: smaller with?
<seb128> Keybuk, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091203-1.png
<seb128> Keybuk, it's over one second difference
<Keybuk> seb128: are you running with any patches?
<Keybuk> or PPAs etc.?
<seb128> not that I know about
<seb128> but I don't reinstall the box
<seb128> I dist-upgrade daily
<Keybuk> your X starts much faster
<Keybuk> you're into the session by 10s
<Keybuk> oh
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> so I am
<Keybuk> ah
<seb128> hum
<Keybuk> I see
<Keybuk> jockey-gtk
<Keybuk> pitti: is that still not fixed?
<seb128> ah right
<seb128> Keybuk, thanks
<Keybuk> because mine are fresh installs every time, I get jockey penalty on that boot
<Keybuk> I also don't see dkms on yours, do you have the bcmwl thing installed?
<seb128> are we supposed to measure standard boot or first boot after install?
<seb128> first boot after install probably has some other extra work
<seb128> like gnome-panel writting their config etc
<Keybuk> this is second boot
<Keybuk> which is why the jockey-gtk confuses me
<Keybuk> I allow a first boot for everything to sort itself out
<seb128> I don't think I've bcmwl installed no
<Keybuk> that could be it too I guess
<Keybuk> will grab pitti when he returns
<seb128> ok
<pitti> argh, that
<Keybuk> :D
<sabdfl> seb128, i don't think we can drop trash, though we could probably improve performance (like do lazy detection of whether there's anything in the trash)
<seb128> sabdfl, ok, I had the impression it was not so useful since you can open from nautilus easily but I've no strong opinion
<seb128> sabdfl, the other reason to reduce the number of applet is that each one has a start cost for gnome-panel
<seb128> sabdfl, we should have a look to that anyway but that will go down to the bonobo use at some point and we can't replace that easily
<seb128> though the one slowing login most now is the indicator message one
<sabdfl> seb128: jump on Ted for that :-)
<sabdfl> he promised me he'd make it *blindingly* fast
<sabdfl> so, hold him to that
<seb128> right, I've annoying him for a few days about it now ;-)
<seb128> I've -> I'm
<pitti> sabdfl: we make the trash applet so fast that you won't even see it!
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - we could add trash to the places menu, couldn't we?
<rickspencer3> for trash, I was thinking that we could cache the current icon (full or empty) and then not init the trash until the user clicks on it
<pitti> that wouldn't make too much sense to me
<pitti> the sense for having it on desktop is to be a drag'n'drop target
<seb128> chrisccoulson: wouldn't solve the issue we would still start the backend to display the icon
<pitti> otherwise it's easier to just press delete or right-click
<rickspencer3> but the problem with trash, as I understand it, is the init function to get the icon
<chrisccoulson> ah, i wasn't aware
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - if it was in the places menu, you wouldn't have to start the backend until you opened the menu
<rickspencer3> I would think 99.99% of the time the state would be the same as when the user logged off last
<seb128> rickspencer3, wouldn't work, the trash is supposed to update when you select an icon on the desktop and press del
<pitti> seb128: however, I don't have a trash applet, and gvfsd-trash is still running; I suspect that nautilus starts it anyway
<rickspencer3> I don't want it to be so that when the user clicks on menu it doesn't open immediately
<rickspencer3> that's not really a good expereince
<seb128> right
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, nautilus will start it when you move something to trash
<seb128> anyway it doesn't cost so much on the stock install since the trash is empty
<seb128> it costs for users who have things in the trash
<rickspencer3> seb128, so can't the trash just init at hat point?
<seb128> it could I guess
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think that logic could probably be used by UNE, so could be a double win, desktop and netbook users would benefit
<didrocks> rickspencer3: y/w :) (I told you yesterday that I'll work on that this afternoon ;))
<didrocks> I have to run away, have a nice week-end!
<rickspencer3> bye bye didrocks
<rickspencer3> thanks again
<seb128> didrocks, have fun
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, where does gwibber store credentials currently?
<kenvandine> keyring i think
<kenvandine> eww... gconf
<kenvandine> that needs to be fixed
<gorgapor>  how would I find out where the gnome-terminal color schemes are located, like tango, rxvt, xterm, linux console, etc? I'm sure they are some xml file somewhere, but I can't find them
<dobey> kenvandine: yeah, i think i convinced segphault that we should store that stuff in keyring at uds
<kenvandine> dobey, good
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the latest GDM has debugging on by default now, and dumps loads of stuff in syslog
<chrisccoulson> do we want to switch that off?
<chrisccoulson> (it might mess up the bootchart numbers) ;)
<seb128> yes
<seb128> or new gnome-icon-theme uploaded
<seb128> we didn't have an icon cache for the gnome icon theme
<seb128> I noticed while tracing nautilus
<seb128> it was opening some 360 times the outdated cache there
<seb128> seems to win almost one second
<seb128> we are around 11 seconds for desktop now
<rickspencer3> nice
<chrisccoulson> awesome :)
<pitti> seb128: *hug*
<rickspencer3> 7 seconds to go
<seb128> thank you guys ;-)
<seb128> the bottleneck will be gnome-panel at some point
<seb128> it takes longer than 4 seconds of cpu to start
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> maybe we can cache images of gnome panel and defer loading them until the user clicks on them
 * rickspencer3 just kidding
<seb128> it has quite some blanks in middle though
<seb128> let's see what robert_ancell figure
<seb128> he said he would investigate slowness there
<seb128> not for the blanks specifically but for gnome-panel
<vuntz> seb128: gnome-panel is blocking the login for 4 seconds?
<vuntz> seb128: or it's active during 4 seconds?
<pitti> AFAICS it uses 4 blocks of CPU, 6 seconds together
<seb128> vuntz, time between gnome-panel start and stop of loading for it is some 11 seconds
<pitti> but spread out across 11 seconds
<vuntz> seb128: would be nice to see the impact of out-of-process applets (remove them), and in-process applets (also remove them), and the the applications menu (remove it) :-)
<seb128> using a plain color background spare a 1 to 2 second cpu use for nautilus
<vuntz> just to know what is expensive
<seb128> vuntz, most applets are around 0.3 seconds
<seb128> or less
<seb128> the menu one is around 2 seconds
<seb128> or less now with gnome-menus caching
<seb128> let me do some new charts about those
<seb128> vuntz, I'm wondering if there the 0.3 seconds is basically the bonobo ping-pong cost
<vuntz> well, the interesting part would be "what's left when you remove everything from the panel" :-)
<vuntz> does it take 5 seconds?
<seb128> I'm just doing that one now
<seb128> it's booting
<vuntz> lovely, thanks!
<seb128> you're welcome ;-)
<vuntz> rickspencer3: you're lucky to have good slaves like seb128 ;-)
<vuntz> lalala
<seb128> lol
<rickspencer3> vuntz, I think you have that relationship backward
<seb128> vuntz, empty panel uses cpu for 1 second
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091204-5.png
<seb128> let's add the clock and then the other in process in order
<vuntz> rickspencer3: heh
<vuntz> seb128: cool, that's a good data point. Still way too much, but I was afraid it'd be more ;-)
<seb128> vuntz, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091204-7.png
<seb128> that is only the clock
<seb128> and it's already interesting
<seb128> you have loading
<seb128> over a second of nothing
<seb128> and then not so busy use
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091204-5.png
<seb128> ie doing some things for a while
<pitti> -> SHIP IT
<pitti> :)
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: waiting for e-d-s, I'd guess
<pitti> seb128: this still has gvfsd-trash
<pitti> I think nautilus just starts it
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> vuntz, could we delay that until menu opening?
<seb128> ie first click
<pitti> oh, doesn't it?
<seb128> vuntz, that would also avoid the "something ask for keyring password at login"
<vuntz> seb128: "let me click, hrm, why do I have to wait for one second for the click to work?"
<pitti> it seems to me that the first click on the clock takes ages
<seb128> seems that happens when you are private calendars
<pitti> I guess since it's talking to google cal, etc.
<seb128> vuntz, couldn't you start init on mouseover?
<vuntz> maybe, yeah
<vuntz> in all cases, it should be delayed in some way
<pitti> well, at least until everything else is ready
<seb128> that should be quick enough to not have that issue
<pitti> no reason not to start pulling calendars when the panel/nautilus are set?
<rickspencer3> bryce, hi, are you available at 10:30 for the bughugger call?
<seb128> vuntz, is there any extra work if weather is on?
<seb128> seems to be half of that if I toggle those off...
<seb128> those = weather and temperature options there
<seb128> I would assume those would not add anything if there is no location set though
<vuntz> seb128: yeah, the weather does some stuff, obviously
<seb128> vuntz, but I've no location...
<vuntz> hrm, interesting :-)
<pitti> doesn't it default to "Eiffel Tower, Paris, France" if you don't have one set?
 * vuntz wishes he had more time to look at all this :/
<vuntz> pitti: nah. I live in Grenoble!
<vuntz> that's a bit too visible to put by default, though ;-)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091204-9.png
<seb128> only the menus
<seb128> it's still using quite a bit even with caching
<seb128> and there is this long blank
<seb128> I'm wondering if that's due to the 2 cores being busy
 * seb128 removed nautilus from session
<seb128> hum no
<seb128> vuntz, that's weird, it does load, then sit there doing nothing for a some seconds and then start loading the menu
<seb128> I'm wondering what is the some seconds about
<vuntz> the menu is loaded in the idle loop
<seb128> well it's idle
<seb128> ie no activity
<vuntz> it might be using 0.1% of the cpu to, say, draw itself on the screen
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should build the menu in an agressive way
<seb128> rather than during idle
<seb128> Amaranth, hello
<seb128> Amaranth, any chance you would upload that 1 liner compiz today?
<seb128> Amaranth, we are sort on waiting on that for 3 days now...
<seb128> or tell me if you are too busy I can do it
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i can't access my folder at people.ubuntu.com. i get a permission denied error :-/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i might ask you to test some things i'm currently experimenting with shortly, if that's ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson: sure
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've patched gconfd now to parse the sources when it loads, rather than waiting for a client to read a value. i'm hoping that with the gnome-session changes, and the g-s-d change i'm about to do, that the sources can be parsed without delaying the rest of the session
<chrisccoulson> but i don't know how well that's going to work yet ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the patched gnome-session build you tested for me the other day loads g-s-d almost instantly btw
<chrisccoulson> when you look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/gnome-session-startup-time/tests/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20091130-6-gnome-session-improvement.png
<seb128> right
<chrisccoulson> gnome-session _really_ starts in line with dbus-launch there
<seb128> we just moved the gconf delay on that one
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's what i'm working on to avoid now
<seb128> btw do you think we could land your other optimization in lucid?
<seb128> the dkpower one
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that
<seb128> did you send it upstream btw?
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you want me to do that GDM change too? (to switch off debugging)
<seb128> please
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok, I think the g-s-d 1 second delay is due to the xrandr option
<seb128> or at least half of it
<seb128> I'm wondering if it's doing some xorg queries it could avoid if there is no config on disk to apply anyway
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too sure yet, as I've not done much with g-s-d.
<chrisccoulson> it does start all the plugins before the rest of the session starts loading though
<chrisccoulson> i was going to patch it to load xrandr and xsettings (hardcoded, to avoid reading from gconf), and then let the rest of the session start whilst it loads the other plugins (using gconf)
<chrisccoulson> but that will mean that users would never be able to unload xrandr/xsettings, but i'm not sure how much that matters really
<seb128> I doesn't I would say
<chrisccoulson> thats the next thing on my list to work on anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> after GDM is uploaded
<pitti> seb128: jockey fix uploaded now
<pitti> should avoid calling jockey
<pitti> (except at first boot)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> I didn't have jockey on my charts but scott did
<chrisccoulson> cool, gdm uploaded now
<chrisccoulson> time for some g-s-d hacking now
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=586276 is interesting
<ubottu> Gnome bug 586276 in general "Don't spawn xrdb" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can possibly have a look at that too, if we think that xrdb is too heavy
<seb128> would probably be nice to clean but that's probably not the main issue we have now
<seb128> chrisccoulson: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/performance-list/2009-April/msg00000.html
<seb128> that might interest you as a reading
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, i'll take a look at that shortly
<seb128> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/performance-list/2009-March/msg00001.html too
<bryce> rickspencer3, http://bryceharrington.org/X/Data/
<seb128> there is an interesting comment in this one
<seb128> the login only need a part of the schemas and value
<seb128> which leads to wonder if the xml could be splitted
<seb128> one part read before loading in a quicker way or something
<seb128> chrisccoulson: http://mces.blogspot.com/2008/11/improving-login-time-part-2-gnome.html too
<halfline> chrisccoulson: hey, so i'm looking at bug 598476
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 598476 could not be found
<halfline> chrisccoulson: trying to figure out under what conditions this problem happens
<halfline> i haven't been able to reproduce at all...
<halfline> chrisccoulson: do you think you could get a trace with --sync ?
<chrisccoulson> halfline - it wasn't reproducible all the time, even for me
<halfline> right, but you'd think i would be able to make it reproducible 100% of the time by adding a sleep in the right place
<chrisccoulson> halfline - there'a already a trace with --sync on the bug report
<halfline> oh Trace 218314 IS with sync?
<chrisccoulson> it is :)
<halfline> ohhh yea, i guess XFreePixmap wouldn't normally cause a roundtrip
<halfline> i'm basically just trying to get a good understanding on this issue, because it's probably going to have to go to vendor-sec etc as a CVE
<chrisccoulson> i need to have a quick look at the code again, because it's been a while since i looked at it
<halfline> it's all very strange for me because...
<halfline> that gdk_pixmap_finalize is happening in end_implicit_paint
<halfline> which makes me think it's the double buffer pixmap
<halfline> but that's not going to cause an X error
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend
<halfline> chrisccoulson: yea i'm definitely confused.  frame 6 in the trace is just calling XFreePixmap on a pixmap created from the local X connection...
<halfline> it's not like a foreign pixmap or anything...
<halfline> chrisccoulson: actaully
<halfline> chrisccoulson: look at the XID passed to XFreePixmap
<halfline> that's a bogus number
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm confused as well now :) Where would the bogus number come from?
<halfline> it's the xid field of the gdk pixmap object
<halfline> so i think we must be dealing with some sort of memory corruption here
<chrisccoulson> i am confused now then. i thought i understood it before
<chrisccoulson> but the change we've got in ubuntu seems to fix it completely :-/
<halfline> right
<halfline> but i wonder if it's because of a side effect of code churn
<halfline> or changes the timings or something
<halfline> don't get me wrong your patch looks reasonable regardless
<halfline> i just want to understand this issue and its implications
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it would be nice to understand it fully
<chrisccoulson> i'll try and take a look at it again at some point, but i won't get a chance tonight
<halfline> cool
<halfline> i'm going to run it through valgrind and see if it says anythign
<bigon> what are the project for emapthy geolocalisation support? will lucid have map and geoclue support?
<bryce> does bzr have an equivalent to git show?
<bryce> e.g. I'd like to do `bzr show 321`
<bryce> bzr diff -r 321 doesn't quite do it
<bigon> bzr diff -c ?
<bryce> bigon, aha thanks
<dobey> bryce: or diff -r 1..2
<bryce> dobey, ah, I tried -r 1:2 but it didn't like that
<Amaranth> gah
<Amaranth> I would have done a compiz upload if launchpad hadn't been down for 12 hours instead of 90 minutes
<rickspencer3> bryce, looks like you json isn't quite valid, at least according to python json module
<bryce> rickspencer3, oh?  I generated it using simplejson fwiw
<rickspencer3> would it be hard to format the pages so that they are on long list of dictionaries?
<rickspencer3> hmm
<bryce> rickspencer3, shouldn't be hard, no
<rickspencer3> is simplejson python?
<bryce> currently they're formatted to be readible
<bryce> yeah
<bryce> import simplejson as json
<rickspencer3> well, I think the change would be the page would start with "[", and each }{ would be },{
<bryce> ...
<bryce> print json.dumps(records, indent=4)
 * rickspencer3 tries simplejson
 * rickspencer3 assumes it's loads
<bryce> which json file in particular are you looking at?
<rickspencer3> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/upgrade.json
<rickspencer3> picked at random
<bryce> ok
<bryce> yep that one is generated by simplepython
<rickspencer3> ValueError: Extra data: line 11 column 1 - line 78 column 1 (char 217 - 1708)
<rickspencer3> I am assuming this is caused by finding the } and then WAIT, there's more???
<rickspencer3> I'll try fidling with the format a bit
<rickspencer3> but I've done lots of json on web clients, so I'm pretty sure this is it
<bryce> ohhh
<bryce> I see what's wrong
<rickspencer3> ?
<bryce> I am not printing out the entire structure, but looping over each element and printing a json for it
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> so pack them into a list and dump that
<rickspencer3> then I can slurp it in
<bryce> right, should be easy to fix, hang on
<rickspencer3> tx
<bryce> there we go, fixed
<bryce> try now
 * rickspencer3 tries
<bryce> most of the rest of the json files will update over the next hour
<bryce> the upstream reports will update overnight; I opted not to hammer upstream's bugzilla more frequently than that ;-)
<rickspencer3> [{'status': 'Confirmed', 'tags': ['upgrade'], 'importance': 'Wishlist', 'title': 'New upstream 173.14.18 available', 'package': 'nvidia-graphics-drivers-173', 'id': 361856}, {'status': 'Confirmed', 'tags': ['upgrade'], 'importance': 'Undecided', 'title': '[lucid] New nvidia 190.42 driver available', 'package': 'nvidia-graphics-drivers-180', 'id': 404135}, {'status': 'New', 'tags': ['merge', 'upgrade'], 'importance': 'Undecided',
<rickspencer3> 'title': 'Please merge nvidia-settings 185.18.31-1 (main) from Debian unstable (contrib)', 'package': 'nvidia-settings', 'id': 417410}, {'status': 'New', 'tags': ['upgrade'], 'importance': 'Undecided', 'title': 'Please update xfs to 1.1.0 version', 'package': 'xfs', 'id': 414272}, {'status': 'Confirmed', 'tags': ['8.10', 'intrepid', 'sis', 'upgrade', 'x.org'], 'importance': 'Undecided', 'title': 'after upgrade to 8.10 (new x.org)
<rickspencer3>  SiS driver is not working well (issue with color depth?)', 'package': 'xserver-xorg-video-sis', 'id': 291294}]
<rickspencer3> bryce, at your leisure
 * Amaranth uploads new compiz that does not depend on compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
<rickspencer3> we would factor bug gravity into a separate module so that we can use that on the server
<rickspencer3> would = should
<bryce> ok
<rickspencer3> I'll try to do that while you are out next week
<bryce> yeah I'm presently working on extracting brian's code to get a listing of team bugs
<Amaranth> so according to seb128 my last two uploads of compiz should have shaved 2.5 seconds off login time :)
<rickspencer3> I've got it so that you can add URL search and now the json parsing is working ;)
<bryce> btw, xserver 1.7 is still on track for getting in by alpha-1 but it's currently blocked waiting on a few things being done in debian.  Timo's going to keep working on it next week
<bryce> rickspencer3, sweet :-)
<rickspencer3> so I'll get it loaded into the bugpane next (probably this weekend)
<rickspencer3> bryce, great about 1.7 (and thanks to timo)
<rickspencer3> I
<rickspencer3> it occurs to me that the "Add a URL" UI needs to be a management console thingy, that's take me like 20 minutes to do with couchgrid!
 * rickspencer3 steps away from computer for an hour or so
<rickspencer3> bryce, btw, the gravity system is in LaunchpadUtils.py in lp:bughgger if you want to give it a whack
<bryce> ok will do
<rickspencer3> no worries if you don't get to it though
<bryce> I just got "team-pkg-list <team>" done
<rickspencer3> I'll just stub it out if you don't
<bryce> now to see if I can pull some desktop stuff :-)
<rickspencer3> sweet!
<bryce> need to figure out what everyone's team names are now
 * rickspencer3 will try when he gets back
<rickspencer3> that's canonical-desktop-team
<bryce> aha
<rickspencer3> there's code for that in bughugger
<rickspencer3> I'll check when I get back
<rickspencer3> bryce ... have a great and fun holiday if I don't catch you before you leave today
<bryce> ok
<bryce> yeah I'll be on later
<Amaranth> whee, compiz _still_ fails to build on armel
<Amaranth> but the armel buildd is apparently idle because it told me immediately after uploading
<Amaranth> still KDE junk
<bryce> rickspencer3, if you're back yet... which format do you prefer?
<bryce> 1.  Data/<team>/<query>.json
<bryce> 2.  Data/<query>/<team>.json
<bryce> 3.  Something else...
<bryce> fwiw, I've got #1 coded up currently for 'upgrade' bugs:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-05
<Amaranth> hmm, I think my next compiz upload is going to be hated
<Amaranth> 30 new binary packages :)
<bryce> Amaranth, whew
 * Amaranth is splitting up compiz-plugins
<Amaranth> Having them all installed makes compiz start slower and we actually don't want to ship about half of them in the default install anyway
 * bryce nods
<Amaranth> Instead of making a compiz-plugins and compiz-plugins-universe I've just split it up into individual plugins and made compiz-plugins a metapackage that depends on the ones we want
<rickspencer3> bryce, ok, I've got it working, in that I can point to one of your jason files and display it in bughugger
<bryce> rickspencer3, sweet!
<bryce> I've got it generating json files per team
<bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/ubuntu-audio/
<bryce> ubuntu-desktop is taking a bit longer to generate ;-)
 * rickspencer3 tries
<bryce> er, desktop-bugs
<bryce> oho it's up - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/desktop-bugs/
<bryce> those patches.json's are likely going to be the most valuable output of our work here
<rickspencer3> oops
<bryce> at least, for X it is
<bryce> er, was
<rickspencer3> bryce, do they all look for tags?
<bryce> anyway, I moved the location of the .json's into team subdirectories, you may have to update your url's
<rickspencer3> bryce, yeah, no worries
<rickspencer3> I have tons to do in terms of managing the links anway
<bryce> rickspencer3, no the patches one does attachment scanning
<bryce> queries that look for tags are extraordinarily easy, but limited in value
<rickspencer3> well, people like to filter and sort based on tags
<bryce> if there's tags we care about let me know and I'll add them
<rickspencer3> but we can refine this kind of stuff when you get back
<bryce> yeah
<rickspencer3> well, if you can just stuff tag info for each bug task, I can just slurp it in
<bryce> I do expose the tags for each bug, so bughugger can use them for filtering too
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, I'll just make sure there are tags before I try to access them ;)
<rickspencer3> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Data/ubuntu-audio/patches.json
<rickspencer3> ^ no tags
<bryce> heh yeah just noticed that
<bryce> I'll add it
<rickspencer3> should we add a "patches" column?
<rickspencer3> to bughugger, I mean?
<bryce> here is the report I did using this data - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/patches.html
<bryce> rather than a Patches column I did a "Patch Age" column, and that has been extraordinarily handy for sorting
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<bryce> but dunno if that could be exposed in bughugger very easily
<rickspencer3> wondering if we need to get smarter about columns
<bryce> could be
<bryce> I've found with my own reports that each report seems to have a couple unique columns it wants to be showing
<bryce> so some sort of dynamism would be slick
<rickspencer3> like a standard set of columns, but then inspect the data and create new columns based on what's in there
<rickspencer3> I do this with couchgrid already
<bryce> nifty
<bryce> almost you'd want a template per query but that could get messy, not sure what the best approach is
<rickspencer3> I have a feeling the code for managing the columns and treeview will shrink dramatically and become dynamic
<bryce> oh that'd be nice
<bryce> oh my god, seb128 is going to love this
<rickspencer3> in couchgrid I just assume it's bound to a dictionary
<bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/desktop-bugs/patches.html
<rickspencer3> I iterate over the keys and each key get's a column and the key name becomes the title
<bryce> I was able to use my patch report thing on everyone else's packages without modification, sweet
<rickspencer3> that is sweet
<rickspencer3> so I wonder if we can do a similar thing with the remote bugs
<bryce> mm
<bryce> I've got bits and pieces of code, I bet it could be done
<bryce> yeah just need to stitch things together, should be feasible
<bryce> not today tho :-)
<bryce> oh wow, just realized we need to add compiz here too
<rickspencer3> bryce, I'll try to refactor the code so that the display is dynamic based on the data while you are on vacation next week
<bryce> rickspencer3, kewl
<rickspencer3> tbh, bughugger is just a prototype that's gotten out of control
<rickspencer3> so it's time for some more refactoring
<bryce> :-)
<bryce> yeah similarly on my end
<rickspencer3> I already extracted the launchpad bits like the logon dialog and search dialogs, etc...
<rickspencer3> and am kind of ready to send those upstream
<rickspencer3> not I'
<rickspencer3> m wondering if couchgrid should derive from "dictionarygrid"
<rickspencer3> and I can just write dictionarygrid, use it here, in couchgrid, and generally be useful
 * rickspencer3 rubs hands together in evil genius manner
<bryce> hehe
<bryce> I need to come up with something better than cron for running all this stuff
<rickspencer3> imagine writing a treeview like this:
<bryce> (actually I already wrote a daemon for it, just need to get it integrated)
<rickspencer3> grid = DictionaryGrid(my_dict)
<rickspencer3> grid.show()
<rickspencer3> bryce, cool
<rickspencer3> how long do the processes take to run?
<bryce> they vary all over the map
<bryce> some take a few minutes, some of the more complex ones up to an hour
<rickspencer3> mmm
<bryce> I'm getting some cron jobs stacking up right now that I added desktop-bugs, fortunately I'm running this on a powerful machine but I'll need to keep an eye on it
<rickspencer3> well, maybe we can get the scripts onto the qa server
<rickspencer3> and then organize them in a discoverable way
<bryce> yep
<bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/compiz/patches.html
<bryce> Amaranth, looks like you guys stay on top of the patches pretty well :-)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> or we don't get many
<mak8> Enter text here...hello
<mak8> hi
<AnonnyMouse> hi guys. i've an Radeon HD 3450 running on karmic-64. reinstalled drivers from downloaded ati....run file, configured in catalyst gui, but still unable to get 3D-HA.
<AnonnyMouse> any ideas?
<AnonnyMouse> hi guys. i've an Radeon HD 3450 running on karmic-64. reinstalled drivers from downloaded ati....run file, configured in catalyst gui, but still unable to get 3D-HA.
<AnonnyMouse> any ideas?
<AnonYmous> hi guys. somehow I've managed to completely screw up my X11/3D glx AT Radeon HD 3450 on my karmic-64.  how can I **completely** remove, purge, reinstall & reconfigure the entire GUI video stack?
<AnonYmous> is anyone else experiencing issues with ATI on karmic 64?
<baptistemm> hi there
<rickspencer3> Ihi
<rickspencer3> hi, even
<baptistemm> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> I tossed and turned all night, thinking about fun and easy programming for Ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> hi baptistemm and rickspencer3
<baptistemm> salut chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> i'm surprised to see anyone here on the weekend ;)
<rickspencer3> I woke up determined that I need to start a new project to contain some pygtk widgets and other modules in one place
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, right, but like I said ^ I woke up with a mission ;)
<chrisccoulson> i woke up determined to go back to sleep for a few more hours ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<rickspencer3> lucky
<rickspencer3> I just could not sleep starting at like 4am
<baptistemm> chrisccoulson, bah, I start my irc client
<chrisccoulson> i had some catching up to do after not getting to sleep until 5am on the morning of my return to work ;)
<baptistemm> and #ubuntu-desktop is on my list
<rickspencer3> baptistemm, vous parles frainces?
<baptistemm> rickspencer3, I'm french, so obviously I supposed to :)
 * rickspencer3 is in conversational French class
<baptistemm> I'm
<baptistemm> but don't expect too much with my english
<rickspencer3> well, I guess being French, speaking French would be helpful
<rickspencer3> ;)
 * baptistemm is sad not to have to speak english in its new job
 * rickspencer3 is sad to not have practiced French in 2 weeks
<baptistemm> parlons franÃ§ais :)
<baptistemm> ca sera plus facile pour moi mais je ne suis pas sÃ»r que tout le monde soit d'accord
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> I think you said ...
<rickspencer3> we speak french and it's easy for you to not have every day
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> ok
<baptistemm> Â»
<baptistemm> Â«  parlons franÃ§ais Â» = let's speak french
<rickspencer3> oh, right
<baptistemm> Â« it'll be easier for me but I doubt everyone will agree with that Â»
<rickspencer3> that's the interrogative I guess
<baptistemm> parlons franÃ§ais !!!
<rickspencer3> je ne suis pas sur = I'm not sure?
<baptistemm> yep
<baptistemm> sÃ»r
<baptistemm> a ^ above the u
 * rickspencer3 no french keys set up on netbook :(
<baptistemm> and when you're are a girl it is sÃ»re with e at the end
<baptistemm> this is #ubuntu-classroom-fr :)
<baptistemm> rickspencer3, do you know about the google im bot en2fr ?
<rickspencer3> heh
<baptistemm> it is quite useful
<rickspencer3> yes, I use it when doing homework sometimes
<rickspencer3> current class in once per week, so I don't practice enough
<rickspencer3> :(
<rickspencer3> next class is twice per week, hope to make more progress
<baptistemm> did you subscribe to some french blogs
<rickspencer3> not yet, because I can't read them too well :/
<rickspencer3> like, I am a raw beginner hear
<rickspencer3> je n'ai pas vocab :/
 * rickspencer3 doesn't even know if that is correct grammar :/
<jmarsden> rickspencer3: http://french.about.com/library/begin/bl_basic.htm    # Survival French :)
<rickspencer3> jmarsden, thanks, I've actually started to script that site to download all of the audio files :)
<rickspencer3> will have quite a vocab drilling program when done
<baptistemm> bath time for my son, see you later
<rickspencer3> bye baptistemm thanks
<baptistemm> I'm back :)
<rickspencer3> good morning jono
<baptistemm> are SRUs only for patch upload or is it possible to upgrade a minor version (for GNOME soft)
<baptistemm> I've package latest gnome-bluetooth, gvfs and nautilus (I'm blocked on this one due a to a libtoolize patch I don't know how to update)
<jono> hey ri
<jono> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> behold: https://edge.launchpad.net/quidgets
<rickspencer3> anyone have any useful pygtk widgets or other python modules that the use a lot that make programming easy and fun ...
<rickspencer3> if they are looking for a home, let me, or propose a merge
<emma> hi does anyone happen to be here who is familiar with the ubuntu-desktop?
<chrisccoulson> possibly ;)
<hggdh> hopefully
<chrisccoulson> hi hggdh
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<hggdh> hey chrisccoulson, life is good, as far as we can say that ;-)
<hggdh> and you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. just enjoying some quiet time whilst baby is asleep :)
<hggdh> heh. Been there...
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i should make the most of it and get some sleep myself really ;)
<hggdh> yeah. Moments of peace are rare with babies
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-12-06
<AnonYmous2> anyone here familiar with multiseat-x?
<sachin6870> Hi Everyone
<AnonYmous2> hey
<sachin6870> Hey, I need your help for some informations
<sachin6870> I want to contribute to Gnome desktop for Ubuntu
<sachin6870> I developed one gnome applet, I want it be part of ubuntu official repo
<sachin6870> Its been huge success so far.
<sachin6870> http://cricscoreapplet.sourceforge.net/
<sachin6870> is anyone there who can help me with procedure?
<AnonYmous2> sry; not able to help u myself, but guys @ ubuntu/gnome dev channels may be able to assist
<AnonYmous2> anyone here familiar with multiseat-x?
<sachin6870> ok
<Amaranth> sachin6870: You'd want #ubuntu-motu for help with packaging
<sachin6870> ok Thanks Amaranth
<baptistemm> hello
<chrisccoulson> halfline - are you about?
<baptistemm> huats !!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/nbarcet/4162907558/in/set-72157622821502927/
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-06
<didrocks> good morning
<nelson777> hello, I need help with scp and network configuration on ubuntu, is this the right channel or there's a better one ?
<micahg> nelson777: #ubuntu
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> how was your long week-end? :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> quite nice
<seb128> how about your normal we?
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> quite "normal" :-)
<didrocks> still have some snow?
<seb128> didrocks, sort of
<seb128> didrocks, it's snowing right now but it's almost melting snow
<seb128> but they said it will get colder again in the next day, so not sure if it will stay or not
<didrocks> ok, not very different from here then :)
<mpt> mvo, good morning, can I bother you for a bit about <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#broken-catalog>?
<mvo> mpt: yes, what is the question?
<mpt> mvo, I have a Papercut Ninja who wants to fix bug 605048
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 605048 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) ""Rebuilding application catalogue" uses a separate window (affects: 2) (heat: 33)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605048
<mpt> mvo, and they want to know if there is really a functional difference between "broken apt cache" and "externally changed apt cache"
<mpt> mvo, the current design assumes that it's safe to browse available software and queue up more installations when the cache is broken, but unsafe to do it when the cache is externally changed
<mpt> Is that correct?
<mvo> mpt: hm, hm. let me think for a second
<mvo> one big difference is that rebuilding application cataglog really means that, it updates the database that s-c relies on for all its searches/querries etc
<mvo> what we could do (and should at some point) is that we modify the db building so that its building a seperate one that is then just "swtiched" over to the live one
<mvo> that eliminates the window
<mvo> or makes it appears for only a some seonds
<mvo> repairing does not (in most cases) deal with the xapian db, only the pakckages states
<mvo> and those we can deal with dynamically
<mvo> repair in a sense is just like a "instal" or "remove"
<mpt> I think glatzor said that repairing sometimes involves installing or removing stuff
<mpt> in which case, the text I have specified for it currently is wrong
<mpt> it's more than just rebuilding the catalog
<mpt> mvo, so I guess they really are different
<mvo> mpt: indeed, sorry that I have not spotted this in the spec
<mvo> mpt: the implementation lacks behind, on broken dependencies (broken apt cache) it will iirc open a dialog currently, let me check that to be sure
<mpt> mvo, the other question was, can you provide a terminal command to trigger the externally-changed cache case, in the same way as you provided that terminal command for breaking the cache?
<mvo> hm, the text follows the spec, so that probably needs tweaking
<mvo> a command for the "Handling an externally-changed apt cache" case ?
<mpt> Yes, a command to trigger it
<mvo> "sudo update-software-center"
<mvo> that should trigger it
<mvo> however, the heading should probably be "handling external changes in the xapian db" or something
<mvo> with a note that the process should be changed so that the DB is build first and then just moved over the old one
<mpt> sudo: Can't open /var/lib/sudo/mpt/0: Read-only file system
<mvo> external changes in the apt cache should be dealt now nicely by watching the dpkg changes file
<mpt> ehhh
<mvo> oh?
<mvo> that smeels like fs corruption :/
<mvo> what does dmesg say?
<mpt> dmesg is a file, it doesn't get written to when this happens
<mpt> which it does every couple of weeks
<jpds> mpt: Is your / read-only?
<mpt> so, I'm just going to write down that command on a piece of paper, and then restart and fsck :-)
<mvo> dmesg displays the kernel internal log buffer, it should contain info aout this
<mpt> jpds, yep, again
<mvo> what does it output if you run "dmesg" ? nothing? stale info?
<mpt> jpds, mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540215/
<mvo> *weeh*, something like this is what I expected
<mvo> and it won't be caputured by apport because of the ro filesystem :/
<mpt> mvo, so, anything else you'd like me to do before I restart? :-)
<mvo> mpt: nothing, good luck with the fsck
<mpt> ok, bbi20m
<mpt> mvo, on a completely separate topic, thanks for doing that cleanup of deb-thumbnailer :-)
<mvo> mpt: yw, I need to do a bit more to make it suitable for main, but its a good start and I got feedback straight away so I think we should continue it and get it ready
<mpt> mvo, do you want a bug report or anything to track its inclusion?
<mvo> mpt: sounds like a good idea to keep track of it, we can target it for natty beta then
<mpt> mvo, is there a pseudo-package for bug reports of that sort?
<mpt> hm, looks like not, just "[needs-packaging]" in the summary
<mpt> mvo, is it correct to say that when the apt cache is broken, some software might not run properly?
<mpt> or run at all?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thank you ;-)
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know if there is a way to get greasemonkey with the new firefox in natty
<seb128> ?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks. i got a new phone today:)
<seb128> oh? which one?
<chrisccoulson> i got the HTC desire
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - https://arantius.com/misc/gm-nightly/
<chrisccoulson> i've not tried those builds though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> at some point i will update all of the extensions in the archive, but i'm focused on the global menu work atm
<cjwatson> I have a patch for bug 83604 in system-tools-backends, which I've also sent upstream.  Any objection to me uploading it?  mdz asked me to look into the NTP syncing situation in Ubuntu as part of a TB brainstorm.ubuntu.com review; this is part of that.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 83604 in system-tools-backends (Debian) (and 3 other projects) "ntpdate 1:4.2.2.p4+dfsg-1ubuntu2 has a flawed configuration file. (affects: 2) (heat: 28)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83604
<seb128> cjwatson, no objection, but we will stop using g-s-t this cycle it seems
<cjwatson> yeah, I heard about that
<cjwatson> can you point me to the replacement project so that I can check that it doesn't have the same problem?
<seb128> cjwatson, indicator-datetime
<seb128> it's from dx and mostly not done yet
<cjwatson> OK, it has no NTP code at all
<seb128> no
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate
<seb128> cjwatson, ^ that's the design
<seb128> cjwatson, it's mostly not done yet, it's a spec for this cycle
<seb128> cjwatson, if you think ntp is something important to have talk to mpt or ted I guess
<seb128> the design can probably still be updated
<cjwatson> synchronising is in that design
<cjwatson> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=settings-time-date.jpg)
<cjwatson> it doesn't have anything for setting NTP servers so probably won't need to fiddle with ntp.conf
<cjwatson> (and I don't really care about that personally)
<cjwatson> so I think this should be OK
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> cjwatson, yeah, so no ntp servers config or "sync now " ntpdate action
<seb128> not sure if we need any of those though
<cjwatson> *shrug*
<cjwatson> don't feel strongly either way :)  I'm just making sure it doesn't screw things up when those actions are available
<cjwatson> ok, uploaded
<seb128> ok, thanks
<Amaranth> seb128: How can compiz be the reason applets/indicators aren't loading?
<lamalex> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~alexlauni/update-manager/dbus/+merge/42827
<didrocks> Amaranth: it is reparenting to agressively the parents X windows
<didrocks> Amaranth: making them crash. smspillaz looked at it and got a partial fix (but it disables menu usage)
<cyphermox> hi
<mvo> thanks lamalex
<nessita> hello everyone!
<seb128> hey nessita
<seb128> how are you?
<nessita> hi seb128, I'm pretty good, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
 * nessita now has tickets to Dallas
<seb128> how, coming to the rally, nice !
<nessita> yes
<nessita> be prepared! :-P
<nessita> seb128: speaking of which (?): is there any way of knowing when https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=control-panel will be move from the NEW queue? I've been told I should be bugging the designated archive admin of the day, but last friday I didn't have luck with that
<seb128> nessita, I will do it right now
<nessita> awesome!
<nessita> thanks :-)
<seb128> np, sorry for the delay
<seb128> I didn't get to it before the a1 freeze last week...
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg: libindicator-debugenv?!
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg: is there a valid usecase to add a binary there?
<kenvandine> just to get tools to get better debugging info
<kenvandine> maybe we don't need those in the ubuntu package...
<seb128> kenvandine, well if I get that correctly that binary only install a config enabling debug
<seb128> it doesn't ship anything else
<seb128> or the changelog and description are confusing
<kenvandine> ok, the description should definately be better
<tedg> seb128, It's not a binary, it's an environment file -- it's for developers as they need those settings to work on indicators easily.
<kenvandine> just xsession
<seb128> hum
<tedg> I just wanted it some way that it could be added and removed easily.
<kenvandine> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80indicator-debugging
<seb128> if we start adding a binary for each config change people might want to do
<seb128> well, get the file in /usr/share and instructions on how to copy it to etc?
<tedg> Honestly, I'm okay if this doesn't get in distro, as I think everyone who needs it is running PPA.
<seb128> well I don't get why it needs to be a binary at all?
<tedg> So that you can add and remove it easily.
<seb128> well get a config in /etc/default?
<kenvandine> developers can copy the file
<seb128> we don't install an apport-enable binary to enable apport
<tedg> And update it if we add additional env variables, etc.
<seb128> I see why you might find it useful
<tedg> But this isn't something normal users would ever install... I mean, it makes your system less robust, but easier to debug.
<seb128> but if we start this way we can add a $source-enabledebug to each source in the archiv
<seb128> like a libglib-tweakg_debug
<kenvandine> so lets put in datadir somewhere and people can just copy it if they want
 * tedg doesn't think that's necessarily a bad idea
<seb128> and a unity-runmeundervalgrind
<kenvandine> and remove when they don't need it
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<seb128> why don't you just get a build flag for the default and change the value in the ppa?
<seb128> or in unstable cycles
<tedg> seb128, But then I can also put http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/libindicator-debugmode in a bug report and not force a report to use the command line.
<seb128> and switch it back to non debug by default at beta
<kenvandine> i would rather people be able to do dev against what is in ubuntu
<seb128> kenvandine, well turn debug on until beta?
<tedg> I don't think even users running alphas should have those flags set.  I think that really only myself ronoc and kvalo should have those flags set.
<seb128> "You don't seem to be running Ubuntu"
<seb128> wth? ;-)
<seb128> tedg, well, we don't add a binary to ubuntu proper for 3 users
<kenvandine> seb128, i don't think it is useful for everyone
<seb128> it clutters the apt index, extra download, extra software-center lines etc
<tedg> seb128 for sure.  And I'm okay with that package being PPA only.
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> kenvandine, please drop it in the next upload ;-)
<seb128> sorry to be picky about that
<kenvandine> i'll do it now
<kenvandine> seb128, no worries... i should have complained about that :)
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg: thanks!
<seb128> did you guys have a nice we otherwise? ;-)
<kenvandine> great... and you?
<tedg> Yup.  Recovering after all my guests have now left :)
<seb128> kenvandine, very nice, 3 days WE are always nice ;-)
<kenvandine> :-D
<lamalex> mterry, re: terminate scale patch, what state was getState giving>
<mterry> lamalex, don't recall off hand, let me try to refresh memory
<kenvandine> mterry, no, sorry i didn't get to file the mir bug
<kenvandine> i started to look at it and decided it had been too long since i reviewed the package and wanted to look closer first
<mterry> lamalex, the scale plugin only mucks with state if we pass InitKey or InitButton to the Initialize() function
<mterry> lamalex, since we weren't doing that (which is easily fixable), it didn't set TermKey or TemButton
<mterry> lamalex, but even if we were to fix that, it wouldn't detect scales initiated from elsewhere (like super+a)
<mterry> lamalex, I believe the state was just 0, but not 100% sure
<lamalex> mterry, I think it's actually a compiz bug with setting the state
<mterry> lamalex, eh, OK.  Again, I think checking the state of an action instead of the plugin is a red herring
<lamalex> mterry, I think the real issue is the explicit dep on scale, but that's probably not a real issue either
<mterry> lamalex, yar.  I didn't know another way to check the state of the scale plugin
<kenvandine> tedg, ugh... there needs to be a separate indicator-loaded for gtk3 doesn't there?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yup :-/
<kenvandine> sigh... another versioned package... libindicator-tools
<kenvandine> and libindicator3-tools
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<seb128> do you really need to?
<seb128> can't you ship both binaries in the same package?
<kenvandine> i'll depend on the gtk3 lib
<seb128> well, it's debugging utilities
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> who is not going to have gtk3 anyway?
<seb128> we have things like apport depending on it
<kenvandine> ok, so your suggesting stick both in the same package and one will just not work
<seb128> other will come this cycle
<kenvandine> that is fine for this....
<seb128> why will one not work?
<didrocks> seb128: xfce won't have it
<kenvandine> the gtk3 one will depend on gtk3
<seb128> and?
<kenvandine> it'll work in ubuntu yes
<seb128> it means you depends on both gtk
<didrocks> seb128: and they will drop apport in xubuntu because of gtk3, but they are ok to drop the indicator applet for a cycle as well
<kenvandine> didrocks, but not everyone gets that
<kenvandine> it is just the tools package
<seb128> didrocks, I don't get what that has to do with xfce?
<seb128> didrocks, it's just a debugging utility
<kenvandine> so i guess dep on both is fine
<seb128> didrocks, xfce hackers can install a debugging utility and gtk3 no?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I was backlogging and just react on the "seb128 | who is not going to have gtk3 anyway?" then right, in that case, we don't care :)
<seb128> didrocks, it's the command line loader, not the applet
<seb128> didrocks, ok great ;-)
 * kenvandine will fix that too
<didrocks> wasn't at the fact it's the debugging tool :) in that case, one extra binary package sounds heavy :)
<didrocks> ok, rebooting and crossing fingers :) (if you don't see me it's certainly because of grub :))
<didrocks> (and not the fact that there is snow outside and my ski not very farâ¦)
<seb128> nessita, ubuntuone-control-panel has an issue
<seb128> ubuntuone/controlpanel/gtk/widgets.py: GPL (v2,)
<seb128> nessita, that source is gpl2 only so you can't distribute it under GPL3
<nessita> seb128: ah, let me fix that
<seb128> nessita, you will need another upload, rejecting this one
<nessita> seb128: ok, thanks! can the new upload have newer upstream versions?
<lamalex> mterry, were you using state() or getState?
<seb128> nessita, they can have any version you want
<seb128> nessita, you can just fix the source and reupload with the same version or do a new version
<nessita> seb128: awesome, I'll be back! :-p
<seb128> ;-)
<mterry> lamalex, for the action?  state I believe
<mvo> lamalex: I commented on the merge proposal :)
<lamalex> mvo, thanks
<lamalex> mvo, I work for Canonical..
<mvo> hahaha
<mvo> ok
<lamalex> :)
<mvo> sorry for the noise then
<lamalex> np
<seb128> kenvandine, do you plan to do a libindicator upload?
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure why to do with the binaries which are in binNEW
<kenvandine> seb128, i will in a few
<seb128> I'm pondering accepting them or just waiting for the next one so we don't get the debug one newed and dropped
<kenvandine> finishing up something else
<seb128> ok, I will wait for the new upload
<kenvandine> just wait on them
<seb128> thanks
<cdbs> seb128: Could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/nautilus-sendto/ubuntugtk3-update/+merge/42602 ? thanks!
<seb128> cdbs, hey
<cdbs> it is the easiest upgrade as it can be :)
<cdbs> hey seb128! In case you didn't recognise, I am bilalakhtar
<seb128> I did from the url ;-)
<seb128> cdbs, sorry but that one is not needed
<seb128> nautilus-sendto has been merged in nautilus
<seb128> the ppa version of nautilus has it
<cdbs> okay, so time wasted :(
<seb128> 2.90 was one tarball before they merged I think
<seb128> sorry about that
<cdbs> next up, a big package
<seb128> you should maybe ask on the channel before starting on something?
<cdbs> I began on saturday, no one was here on the channel
<cdbs> otherwise I would have asked
<cjwatson> I did 90% of the avahi merge in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/avahi/ubuntu, but it fails to build with gir errors that I don't understand.  even after bumping the repository version to 1.2, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/540297/.  could somebody who understands gir finish it off for me, maybe?
<seb128> cjwatson, is there any reason you didn't take 0.6.28?
<seb128> cjwatson, it's fixed in that version
<seb128> which is what debian has in experimental
<seb128> cjwatson, http://git.0pointer.de/?p=avahi.git;a=commit;h=7b124f6ae362a575460d2374dca39ebdce07c714
<seb128> ortherwise
<cjwatson> seb128: I didn't see the version in experimental
<cjwatson> happy to try merging from that instead
<cjwatson> thanks for the references
<seb128> cjwatson, you're welcome, thank you for doing the merge :-)
<kenvandine> seb128, libindicator uploaded
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
<nessita> seb128: new packaging bits for u1cp ready at https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/+junk/ubuntuone-control-panel-release
<seb128> cjwatson, so the new avahi worked, gret ;-)
<seb128> great
<didrocks> seb128: what was the issue with previous u1cp? (I think my connection dropped when you discussed it)
<seb128> ubuntuone/controlpanel/gtk/widgets.py: GPL (v2,)
<seb128> didrocks, it was GPL2 only
<seb128> where the COPYING is GPL3
<didrocks> argh, this one slept under my eye :/
<didrocks> sorry
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> can you sponsor the new update?
<seb128> so I can review it ;-)
<didrocks> sure
<nessita> yey!
<nessita> seb128, didrocks: thanks
<didrocks> nessita: you're welcome :)
<cjwatson> seb128: ... I hope so
<cjwatson> it built and avahi-browse -at returned something that looked plausible. :)
<didrocks> seb128: done
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<kenvandine> mterry, bug 686034
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 686034 in geoclue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] geoclue (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686034
<chrisccoulson> maaaaaan, the dbusmenu documentation really needs fixing ;)
<chrisccoulson> i have to keep looking at other people work to figure out how to use it ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, file bugs about the broken docs... is it just incomplete? or worse?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, mainly incomplete. for example, it's not obvious how i create a submenu. do i just create a DbusmenuMenuItem and add children to it, or is there some property i need to set to make it work?
<kenvandine> gtk menus
<kenvandine> i think you just want to create the gtk menus then add it
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i don't really want to do that, i'm working inside firefox ;)
 * kenvandine hasn't done that in a while... 
<kenvandine> oh... wait... dbusmenu itself
<kenvandine> humm... in appindicator that is what you do :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm using the dbusmenu API directly
<kenvandine> ugh
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i'm constructing the menu structure directly from the DOM
<kenvandine> territory i haven't been brave enough to enter :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's crazy ;)
<kenvandine> nice!
<kenvandine> so are you complaining about the gtk-doc generated docs? or just lack of documentation in general?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, lack of documentation in general
<kenvandine> ok
<chrisccoulson> there's a whole list of property names in the documentation, but there's no explanation about what any of them mean
<chrisccoulson> (although, some are self-explanatory)
<kenvandine> bug tedg :)
<kenvandine> maybe he could point you at the few important bits
<chrisccoulson> i guess libappindicator might be a good place to look to figure out how to use the API
<chrisccoulson> :)
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Naw, you should look at appmenu-gtk -- it's probably closest to what you want.
<chrisccoulson> tedg - thanks, i'll grab that too
<jcastro> kenvandine: I have no issues/todos for your meeting today
<jcastro> kenvandine: if you could remind dbarth that I could always use more bitesize bugs that's all I need.
<didrocks> jcastro: well, I've looked over the 400 bugs the other day, we don't have new bitesizable right now
<didrocks> (but I would love upstream keeping an eye on bugs)
<jcastro> didrocks: yeah, just one of those vigilance things
<jcastro> didrocks: also, I missed all your PMs on friday until I ran into them yesterday, so sorry if it seemed that I was ignoring you all day
<didrocks> jcastro: no worry :)
<kenvandine> jcastro,  will do
<seb128> kklimonda, there?
<kklimonda> seb128: yes
<seb128> kklimonda, hey, how are you?
<kklimonda> seb128: thanks, I'm good now :)
<chrisccoulson> tedg, ok, i think i figured out what i need to do ;)
<chrisccoulson> hopefully i'll be able to build this at the end of the week
<chrisccoulson> then the fun bit starts ;)
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Woot!
<kklimonda> seb128: I have a gtkmm update prepared and have fixed one bug in atkmm packaging (also downgraded debhelper dependency to 7 as per dholbach comment on #-motu)
<seb128> kklimonda, let me know if you need review
<seb128> kklimonda, sorry got sidetracked 2 minutes
<seb128> kklimonda, what do you think about having a gnomemm team on launchpad
<seb128> kklimonda, I was thinking you could create and lead it
<seb128> so the vcs would be there, murray seemed interested to contribute to such a team
<kklimonda> seb128: I guess it makes some sense if more people are interested in maintaining mm bits, it's definitely easier than becoming part of ~u-desktop
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> kklimonda, would you like to lead the team?
<kklimonda> seb128: sure
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> kklimonda, do you need some help to set the team or something?
<kklimonda> seb128: I've commented on bug 672817, there is also a merge requested for gtkmm but dholbach has reported a weird ftbfs - I can't reproduce it myself nor in the PPA so I'm not sure how to proceed (https://code.launchpad.net/~kklimonda/gtkmm/packaging/+merge/42461)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 672817 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] atkmm1.6 (affects: 1) (heat: 156)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672817
<kklimonda> seb128: I think I'll manage to create the team -- as long as I'm not stuck at creating a description --  should I do something else?
<seb128> checkout the vcs for glibmm, atkmm, gtkmm
<seb128> change the control url and push to that team
<seb128> so the next upload will have the correct vcs
<seb128> I will clean them from the ubuntu-desktop namespace once that's done
<kklimonda> ok
<seb128> you can also announce the team on the ubuntu-desktop list if you want
<seb128> or we can get jcastro to do that perhaps if you don't to do it ;-)
<kklimonda> yeah, I'd never take fun of announcing something new from jcastro ;)
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> jcastro, hey
<seb128> jcastro, can you announce the gnomemm team once it's set up in launchpad?
<seb128> kklimonda is going to create and lead it
<kklimonda> seb128: I guess I should add ~ubuntu-desktop to the member list?
<bcurtiswx> what is gnomemm ?
<bcurtiswx> im on the -desktop mailing list.. i can wait :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, will you be here around 19UTC /
<bcurtiswx> ?*
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: "people" responsible for the Gtkmm stack in Ubuntu, I guess it's being created to ease the burden on the ubuntu-desktop team. ("people" because so far there is me and myself ;)  )
<seb128> kklimonda, not sure, it's your team, up to you to decide who has access to it ;-)
<seb128> but yeah would be easier
<bcurtiswx> what does the mm stand for ?
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: C++
<bcurtiswx> OK
<bcurtiswx> gotta go be back around 19UTC
<seb128> bcurtiswx, I will probably be there yes
<kklimonda> so gnomemm is mostly C++ interface for Gtk+ and friends
<seb128> bcurtiswx, see you later
<seb128> kklimonda, the team purpose is not only to put less on ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> it's also that upstream gtkmm showed interested to contribute there
<kklimonda> seb128: that's great :)
<seb128> but we can't give access easily to the desktop set
<kklimonda> right
<seb128> so that will make easier for them to get access to the vcs and maybe set an official ppa or something
<seb128> ok, time for sport, I will be back later
<pitti> kenvandine: libindicator NEWed, FYI
 * pitti waves hello again from long weekend
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
 * pitti waves good night again, time for dinner and unpacking, etc.
<jcastro> kklimonda: let me know when the team is all set and I'll get the word out
<bdmurray> I was just able to recreate bug 684052 and the system is still running.  Is more information required?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 684052 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "live CD does not have reboot on the power menu after install completes (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684052
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i have empathy almost done packaging wise.. there's a fail i have to talk to cassidy about next time I catch him online.. among finalizing the changelog
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-07
<chrisccoulson> nice, only 1 more class to implement for the ffox global menu, then i can finally try and build it :)
<RAOF> Ooh, nifty.
<RAOF> I've been wanding a little more vertical space.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, https://github.com/alanmcgovern/mono-introspect :)
<RAOF> I noticed he'd popped into #mono with that.
<Amaranth> Does the lack of a date on the indicator clock applet bug anyone else?
<RAOF> Amaranth: It bugged me so much I turned it on :)
<Amaranth> Wha? gconf-editor?
<RAOF> dconf-editor has a check box for it.
<Amaranth> oh, it's already using gsettings?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<Amaranth> yay, strftime format
<RAOF> robert_ancell: It looks pretty cool, but doesn't seem to generate code at runtime (which would obviously be cooler ;))
<robert_ancell> RAOF, it's a first step
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> At the very least it's got a working gir parser :)
<cyphermox> hi
 * Amaranth wonders why "can't run compiz" bugs are suddenly getting marked as High
<Amaranth> I would think not being able to run it is much less of an issue compared to "it started and froze"
<Amaranth> The sad thing is I guarantee this bug is going to be compiz crashing or refusing to run because the driver does not work correctly and the guy was using a livecd from before we got the bailer plugin
<didrocks> good morning
<glatzor> morning mvo
<glatzor> mvo, do you have got some minutes to talk about lp:#659438
<glatzor> #659438
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Good morning pitti.
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> pitti: how was your long week-end? :)
<didrocks> (seems you reconnected yesterday evening though)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: very nice, thanks! went back to Dresden yesterday
<didrocks> pitti: how's the weather?
<pitti> fortunately I took an early train, the three connections after that got horrible delays due to the new snow
<pitti> didrocks: not much different here and there -- cold, and 20 cm snow :)
<didrocks> 3 connections Munich <-> Dresden? :/
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<pitti> didrocks: no, I meant the same connection an hour later (and 2, 3)
<pitti> hey glatzor, guten Morgen!
 * pitti waves to mvo
<mvo> hey pitti
<didrocks> pitti: oh ok! :)
<didrocks> hey mvo
<pitti> glatzor: thanks for merging my aptdaemon branch!
<mvo> glatzor: thanks for the unittest for this!
<glatzor> hello pitti! Thanks for your work!
<mvo> glatzor: I need to look into the libapt code to see what we can do, either it needs better locking or a way to re-read the required download
<mvo> hey didrocks
<glatzor> mvo, I added a small patch to the bug. It requires a lock on the lists for simulate
<mvo> thanks glatzor
<fta2> hi, the gnome desktop in natty has been broken for almost a week now, is anyone still caring about that or is unity the only target now??
<pitti> glatzor: do you plan an upload of the new aptdaemon soon? or do you want me or mvo to assist?
<mvo> fta2: broken in what way?
<fta2> broken = no panel + gnome-keyring-daemon crash
<mvo> I have a panel (well, half a panel)
<fta2> gnome-session[4777]: WARNING: Unable to find provider '''' of required component 'panel'
<fta2> ** (gnome-keyring-daemon:5186): WARNING **: couldn't read 4 bytes from control socket: Connection reset by peer
<fta2> happens on several machines
<fta2> well, 3 out of 3
<mvo> glatzor: if its ready I'm happy to upload aptadmone, I just need to update s-c to the api changes
<mvo> fta2: hmm, seb128 will know, but he is not online :/
<mvo> I only have a crashing windowlist applet
<fta2> mvo, i can start the panel manually, but when i do that, apps launched for it appear on a random workspace, instead of on the current one
<glatzor> mvo, in the 0.4 branch I use lintian optionally to check local package files before installing
<fta2> -for+from
<mvo> glatzor: nice
<didrocks> fta2: the applet crashing is a compiz bug worked upstream
<fta2> didrocks, metacity here
<glatzor> mvo, so it should have a recommend or suggest.
<mvo> suggests probably
<didrocks> fta2: ok, not the same issue thenâ¦
<fta2> just filed bug 686376
<ubot2> fta2: Bug 686376 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/686376 is private
<fta2> doh
<glatzor> mvo, you want to reduce the default perl stack in ubuntu, right?
<didrocks> fta2: are you in the gnome classic session?
<mvo> glatzor: I think that is pitti goal yes
<mvo> glatzor: why?
<pitti> well, I don't think we'll get that far
<pitti> the discussion with Debian died down
<glatzor> mvo, because of lintian. perhaps we need a python port :)
<mvo> like linda ;)
<pitti> glatzor: lintian is not on the desktop CDs, so it can use whatever perl it likes :)
<glatzor> pitti, but it would be nice to have it on the cd
<pitti> glatzor: uh, why?
<glatzor> pitti, there seem to be quite a range of broken package files arround provided by third party developers.
<pitti> well, at some level it would be "nice" to have the complete archive on the CD, but our archive kind of outgrows that :)
<pitti> glatzor: well, that should be pulled in by devscripts or quickly or so
<glatzor> pitti, and people tend to install those. I was pointed to the problem since I assuemed every deb package should have an installed-size field in aptdaemon
<glatzor> pitti, e.g. the first class client from www.fristclass.com
<pitti> glatzor: I'm slightly confused -- what does the installed-size: field have to do with lintian?
<glatzor> pitti, but the installed-size issue is not the worst one
<pitti> that's generated by dpkg-deb, isn't it?
<glatzor> pitti, installed-size is required by the debian/ubuntu policy
<didrocks> pitti: apt-get install quickly is already quite scary (300Mb+) but sure, if you need additional dev package to suggest, do not hesitate. I don't think it should be a blocker :)
<pitti> glatzor: ah, you mean it's not there in broken .debs
<pitti> right
<glatzor> pitti, right.
<glatzor> pitti, but there are worse issues
<pitti> didrocks: 300 MB? wow, what did you do, install eclipse? :-)
<mvo> didrocks: you see that from the wrong angle, try "its 300mb already anyway, one more will not hurt" ;)
<mvo> emacs!
<pitti> mvo: ah, so is it thmacs now?
<didrocks> pitti: of course :p no, it's basically devscript with all the dep chain that I should work on (installing postfix and sendmail for instanceâ¦)
<didrocks> mvo: hehe, we use gedit by default :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hello
<didrocks> salut seb128! Ã§a va ?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> oui, some internet issues today I think due to the weather again but seems to be stable now
<and471> didrocks, comment dit on en anglais "lut"?
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, didrocks, and471
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> seb128, because of the weather? snowstorm?
<and471> hi rodrigo_
<seb128> how are you? had fun during the days off work? ;-)
<seb128> and471, lut = salut in short
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, a lot of fun :)
<seb128> I guess "hi" for "hello" is the what "lut" is to "salut"
<and471> seb128, ah merci :)
<and471> seb128, and you still pronounce without pronouncing the 't'?
<and471> (like lu)
<didrocks> seb128: Yeah, it seems you are in a cold area for now. Fun that there is almost no more snow there in the mountainsâ¦
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_!
<didrocks> and471: we don't pronounce it :)
<and471> didrocks, I thought so :)
<seb128> and471, indeed, no "t" pronounced ;-)
<and471> didrocks, seb128, do you use lut in speech as well as written communication?
<seb128> no, rather in written way
<and471> ah ok
<and471> good, otherwise I might have said 'lut' to someone and got a funny look back xD
<and471> seb128, didrocks, well thankyou for the french lesson, but now I must go :)
<and471> see ya everyone
<seb128> bye
<mvo> seb128: silly question, do we have gdbus in natty or is it just too new/changing for that
<seb128> mvo, we have it in maverick
<seb128> and it's not changing a lot, it's stable since glib 2.26
<seb128> mvo, it's part of glib
<mvo> sweet
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> np
<seb128> do you plan to start porting to it?
<seb128> or is that for new code?
<mvo> new code
<mvo> for now, porting maybe later
<mvo> update-notifier is using some of the old code
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems dx guys have been happy about gdbus so far, let's see if you like it as well
<pitti> glatzor: do you plan an upload of the new aptdaemon soon? or do you want me or mvo to assist?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: how about you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<rodrigo_> is LP down? or is it me?
<seb128> rodrigo_, wfm
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> well browsing bugs works
<seb128> not sure what part of lp you exerce
<seb128> I didn't try to fetch a vcs
<rodrigo_> just web, but I see other pages don't work neither, so it's me
 * rodrigo_ restarts router
<glatzor> pitti, would be nice if you or mvo could make an upload. I am very short on time these days
<pitti> glatzor: sure, we just didn't want to step on your toes; we'll handle that
<pitti> (it unblocks a language-selector upload)
<pitti> mvo: want me to take care of this, or do you want to test the new version a bit more with software-center, etc?
<pitti> it seems that software-center crashes right away for me now
<mvo> pitti: ok, is the packaging bzr current? then I build a local version and try it out
<pitti> mvo: it's not; I can't commit to it
<glatzor> mvo, afaik you should only need to adapt the commitpackage call.
<pitti> mvo: but I'm happy to prepare a branch and update it there
<pitti> (unless someone adds me to ~aptdaemon-developers)
<glatzor> pitti, mvo! see you guys! thanks
<pitti> so there goes my question about doing an upstream release 0.41 :)
<mvo> pitti: no worries, that is pretty trivial, I test it
<pitti> mvo: for l-s I just set PYTHONPATH to the upstream checkout
<pitti> mvo: does the current natty s-c package start for you? it immediately crashes here
<pitti> AttributeError: 'Query' object has no attribute 'get_description'
<mvo> pitti: *ick* that is a different one, fixed in trunk
<pitti> ah, good
<mvo> pitti: I upload a new version before lunch
<pitti> mvo: hang on
<seb128> ok, I lost track of that l-s discussion now
<pitti> mvo: if you need to fix something else for aptdaemon 0.41, you better include that as well?
<seb128> pitti, thanks for following on it
<pitti> seb128: I unsub'ed the sponsors for that reason :)
<mvo> pitti: yeah, that is the plan
<mvo> pitti: so if its broken anyway currently, just go ahead and upload
<mvo> pitti: then I fix the remaining issues in s-c and upload
<pitti> mvo: and send you a merge proposal for the branch?
<mvo> sounds good
<mvo> glatzor should just add you to the team
<pitti> mvo: would you consider doing an official 0.41 upstream release?
<pitti> or should I do a 0.40+bzr snapshot for now?
<mvo> pitti: 0.40+bzr for now
<pitti> ack
<mvo> pitti: glatzor is handling the releases so far
<pitti> alright
<mvo> thanks!
<mvo> pitti: let me know if you run into any issues, you probably need to adept some patches for the 0.40+bzr release
<pitti> mvo: right, but no hard problems so far
<mvo> great
<mvo> pitti: could you move to dh_python2 as well while at it?
<pitti> mvo: sure
<pitti> mvo: I also wanted to move to 3.0 (quilt), and make a few other policy updates; ok?
<pitti> nevermind, it's already 3.0
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, don't forget about the meeting reminder
<pitti> seb128: cheers
<seb128> it's my weekly reminder about the reminder :p
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: do you have someone to remind you of it?
<seb128> no, but I should ask didrocks to remind me if I forget to remind you!
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> we just need to extend that chain so that we close them on both ends
 * didrocks is the reminder of the reminder :)
<didrocks> mvo: I've just pushed some nice community work in software-properties trunk (for add-apt-repository). Maybe that can wait and don't worth an upload right now or do you think it's better to upload right away?
<mvo> didrocks: looks good, just upload
<pitti> ah, didrocks is patch pilot *hug*
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<didrocks> mvo: ok, thanks :)
<pitti> mvo: ok, works wonderfully here; shall I just upload, and you pull lp:~pitti/aptdaemon/040-update into lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/ubuntu-natty ? or do you want to review the changes first?
<pitti> ah, you already said, nevermind
<pitti> mvo: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/aptdaemon/040-update/+merge/42921
<pitti> mvo: perhaps you want to pull instead of merge, to keep the individual history
<mvo> pitti: thanks, I merged and updated the location in .bzr-builddeb/defaults.conf too
<pitti> mvo: ah, nice
 * pitti uploads his gtk3ized language-selector then \o/
<seb128> pitti, excellent ;-)
<mvo> pitti: is it actually installing languages for you? I get get a crash, debugging it currently
<pitti> mvo: it did a few days ago
<pitti> mvo: I'll have a look right away
<pitti> mvo: Qapla'
<pitti> mvo: I selected "add/remove languages", enabled Klingon and "Apply", and it successfully installed the -tlh langpacks; I'm back to the main GUI
<pitti> mvo: are you using current bzr head for aptdaemon and langauge-selector?
<pitti> mvo: what's the crash for you?
<mvo> pitti: I was working with software-center, I fixed one issue that is releated to the language (trivial in aptdaemon trunk), the next one is deep in libapt
<pitti> mvo: just tried removing packages, works as well
<mvo> thanks
<mvo> there is one issue that you only get with  a locale that aptdaemon has no translations for (I use en_DK )
<mvo> but that is fixed in trunk now
<pitti> ah, I didn't test that
<mvo> its a bit unusual I guess, but was easy
<mvo> the next one is a crash in the actiongroup in libapt, I suspect it was there forever, but some of the new compiler magic now uncovered it, lets see what I find out
<pitti> mvo: are these regressions due to the new aptdaemon 0.40?
<mvo> pitti: it looks like the new "with cache.actiongroup()" is triggering it, so yes, but also no, the bug is older
<pitti> funny -- empathy now shows myself as "persons nearby" (bonjour)
<pitti> Zdra: ^ known bug?
<Zdra> cassidy, ^
<cassidy> pitti, as a merged contact ?
<pitti> cassidy: yes, I think so; a right-click on it shows my jabber,  gtalk, and bonjour IDs
<pitti> but it's shown under the "Persons near me" category (loosely translated from German)
<cassidy> that's probably you have your jabber account in your gtalk roster (or the other way)
<cassidy> folks automatically merge your "self" accounts
<cassidy> including Salut
<pitti> it just started doing that today
<pitti> and I didn't touch my account config for months
<cassidy> it is still displayed if you disconnect your gtalk and jabber account ?
<pitti> cassidy: yes
<pitti> now it's just bonjour
<cassidy> ok, that's a salut issue then
<pitti> cassidy: thanks; I'll file a bug against that then
<pitti> thanks for pointing out the package
<pitti> 2010-12-03 06:50:26 status installed telepathy-salut 0.4.0-1
<pitti> hm, that's since Friday
<pitti> could very well have happened since then already, I was mostly offline during the weekend
<pitti> cassidy: I'll try downgrading, and make some tests, and file a bug; thanks!
<cassidy> cool
<pitti> cassidy: hm, it's a bit fiddly; I downgraded to salut 0.3.13, and now I see myself as "Ungrouped"; upgrading to salut 0.4.0 again keeps me in "ungrouped" now
<pitti> I quickly see myself in "people nearby", then I move to "ungrouped"
<cassidy> you just have salut connected, right ?
<pitti> no, jabber etc, too
<pitti> (again)
 * pitti tries with guest account
<pitti> cassidy: ok, also happens in the guest session, i. e. with clean home dir/config; I see "guest" in empathy, with just the salut accout
<pitti> cassidy: so it seems to be a more general "empathy shows myself in the user list" bug?
<pitti> cassidy: would that be empathy, or telepathy-mission-control or something else?
<cassidy> pitti, I'd say empathy or salut
<pitti> fun, I can talk to myself! :-)
<didrocks> pitti: are you nice with yourself? :-)
<pitti> cassidy: filed as bug 686516 now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 686516 in empathy (Ubuntu) "[natty] Empathy contact list shows myself (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686516
<pitti> oh, empathy was upgraded just today
 * pitti downgrades and tests
<rodrigo_> pitti, is there any way to show an image in apport dialogs, from a symptom module?
<pitti> rodrigo_: not right now, I'm afraid
<rodrigo_> pitti, would it be hard to add it?
<pitti> cassidy: ok, confirmed that it's a regression between 2.32.1 and .2; added to the bug
<cassidy> rly?
<cassidy> did you test using the same folks version ?
<pitti> cassidy: yes, I kept everything the same, just downgraded empathy and empathy-common
<pitti> cassidy: I noticed that the current natty package imported some fixes from upstream git, though
<pitti> empathy (2.32.2-0ubuntu2) natty; urgency=low
<pitti>   * debian/patches/00git_folks_aliasable_groupable.patch:
<pitti>   * debian/patches/00git_individual_methods.patch:
<pitti>     - Use latest libfolks API
<pitti> could that be it?
<cassidy> maybe yeah
<pitti> ok, added that to the bug; not that urgent
<pitti> thanks for the suggestions so far
<glatzor> pitti, there is gobject introspection of vte in universe? will this be included in main?
<seb128> glatzor, if someone updates vte to build a gir
<seb128> which is the way to go
<didrocks> pitti: I have apport not showing when I get a new crash report (the crash report is in /var/crash). It's not the first time, last time I cleaned /var/crash/ to get crash report again.
<nessita> hello all!
<didrocks> pitti: I'm wondering if the issue is apport or update_notifier, I'm seeing that I have two files own by rootâ¦
<didrocks> hey nessita, how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: is there an easy way to help you debug that? (I'm looking right now at what update_notifier is launching)
<nessita> pretty good!
<nessita> I upgraded one of my computers to natty, and I would like to enable unity, but choosing either "Desktop" or "Classic" edition both show my "old" desktop
<seb128> didrocks, I think it's update-notifier
<seb128> nessita, hey
<seb128> nessita, what videocard and driver do you run?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, looking at what it does and trying to launch that by hand :)
<didrocks> nessita: do you get a message when it shows you the "old" desktop on the Destkop session?
<seb128> didrocks, I think it didn't print the "crash detected" info when I was running it by hand
<didrocks> like "your video doesn't supportâ¦"
<glatzor> seb128, pitti, can you tell me why the pygi-convert.sh scripts replaces the __init__ calls of parent classes by gobject ones?
<nessita> seb128: my video card is Intel, I'm not sure if the driver was updated properly
<didrocks> seb128: diving into the code :)
<nessita> didrocks: I didn't get any message at all
<didrocks> nessita: but you still have a gnome-panel?
<seb128> nessita, there is no way intel would not be updated correctly
<nessita> video seems to be correct, i915
<nessita> didrocks: yes, my exact former desktop
<seb128> nessita, do you have unity installed???
<didrocks> so, it's not the compiz fallback, it prints a message in any case
<glatzor> pitti, seb128 what is wrong with : class MyButton(Gtk.Button):
<glatzor>     def __init__(self):
<glatzor>         Gtk.Button.__init__(self)
<nessita> seb128: I don't know!!! :-)
<seb128> nessita, dpkg -l | grep unity
<nessita> seb128: I didn't choose it explicitly, I thought it would install alone
<seb128> glatzor, not sure why it replaces those, maybe pitti knows
<nessita> seb128: yes, is installed
<seb128> nessita, what session did you select?
<nessita> seb128: I've tried both "Desktop" and "Classic"
<seb128> like which one do you use now?
<didrocks> gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<didrocks> gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/apps
<didrocks> nessita: ^^
<didrocks> oupss
<nessita> didrocks: trying...
<didrocks> gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/panel
<seb128> ok, I will let didrocks comment
<didrocks> for the secon :)
<seb128> no need to be 2 of us debugging the same issue
<didrocks> seb128: if gconf is right, I'll let you take it as I'll be clueless for now :)
<seb128> lol
<nessita> didrocks: metacity, no value set for bla, gnome-pane;
<nessita> panel*
<didrocks> nessita: ok, you changed those value :)
<nessita> didrocks: I did not
<didrocks> nessita: well, metacity can be set by a gui
<didrocks> for panel isn'tâ¦
<didrocks> so you should have the default which isâ¦ nothing :)
<didrocks> nessita: no worry, let's change that:
<didrocks> gconftool-2 --unset /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<glatzor> pitti, seb128: I got an answer from #python: tomeu> glatzor: we need to call gobject.__init__ because that will create a C instance of the correct class
<glatzor> <tomeu> you want a C instance of your class, not of its parent
<didrocks> gconftool-2 --unset /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/panel
<didrocks> nessita: then print the -g result again, please :)
<seb128> glatzor, ok
<nessita> didrocks: the values I pasted above are when using classic desktop. I just switched to ubuntu desktop, and I got: metacity, no value set for bla, ''
<didrocks> nessita: ok, unset the first one then
<nessita> didrocks: shall I make those modifications being on classic or dekstop?
<nessita> desktop*
<didrocks> desktop as you want unity I guess :)
<nessita> on it!
<didrocks> nessita: for the panel, I think you may have a saved session
<didrocks> nessita: did you saved your session once?
<didrocks> save*
<nessita> didrocks: I have the "automatically remember running application when loggin out" enabled, so I think my session is saved every time
<nessita> didrocks: ok, new values are now: gnome-wm, no value set..., ''
<didrocks> nessita: that's bad :)
<didrocks> nessita: can you disable that? :)
<nessita> didrocks: no! that's my life :-)
<didrocks> nessita: so you won't be able to switch between sessions :)
<didrocks> and no unity :p
<nessita> but but but
<nessita> BUG!
<didrocks> nessita: will be fixed in a week, if I find time :)
 * nessita grumbles
<didrocks> so disable that and rm ~/.config/gnome-session/saved-session/*
<nessita> didrocks: ok, so, the gconf values are now correct?
<didrocks> nessita: ahah, will next time I have an ubuntu crash :)
<didrocks> nessita: yes, there are!
<didrocks> ubuntuone*
<didrocks> will see*
 * didrocks should stop eating words and letters
<nessita> didrocks: ok, setting disabled and sessions removed
<nessita> didrocks: what now?
<didrocks> nessita: logout and login
<nessita> seb128: in the mean time... is the new u1cp package ok or do I need to fix something else?
<didrocks> you should get a new shiny unity :)
<nessita> didrocks: ack
<nessita> didrocks: I dooooooooo!
<didrocks> seb128: I was quite surprised to get no bug report on the session btw, unlike in maverick where we got this kind of bugs in the cycle very early ^^
<didrocks> nessita: nice!
<nessita> ALT+F2 will not work! oh my god! I'm useless without it!
<nessita> bring it back!
<nessita> didrocks: how am I supposed to do any work if I can't open a terminal?
<nessita> :-P
<didrocks> nessita: for allpha2
<didrocks> nessita: ctrl + alt + t
<didrocks> alpha*
<nessita> didrocks: ok, thanks
<nessita> didrocks: good work!!!
<didrocks> nessita: well, thanks the dx team :)
<nessita> dx_team: thanks!!!
<nessita> didrocks: how can I have a clock in unity?
<pitti> glatzor: g-i vte is against gtk2, it doesn't work; we need a gtk3 version
<glatzor> ah ok
<didrocks> nessita: you should get one with indicator-datetime
<didrocks> nessita: it is installed?
<nessita> didrocks: nopes, it wasn't, installing now
<pitti> didrocks: did something crash which already crashed before at this day?
<pitti> didrocks: for root crashes you'll get an update-notifier icon in the panel, and need to click on it (since it needs gksu)
<pitti> didrocks: perhaps this needs to be ported to be an appindicator?
<didrocks> pitti: well, my /var/crash is quite full :)
<didrocks> pitti: right, but even without that, we saw last time with an empty /var/crash I got no issue
<pitti> glatzor: you can't currently call parent constructors with gi in constructors; it seems you can only create gobjects and pass properties
<pitti> glatzor: I don't know whether it's planned to work around this in pygobject at some point
<didrocks> so maybe the bug is "when you have a crash root" and that it tries to show in the systray, it's blocked and then abort
<didrocks> pitti: but that shouldn't prevent the new crash to popup a dialog, isn't it?
<pitti> glatzor: the problem is that in a constructor you already have a self, so you can't call e. g. self = Gtk.button_new()
<pitti> glatzor: ah, seems you already talked to tomeu
<seb128> nessita, u-c-p accepted
<didrocks> nessita: indicator-datetime is an unity recommends, do you install recommends? (it's the default)
<kklimonda> good afternoon
<pitti> didrocks: in theory no
<pitti> didrocks: in practice, perhaps u-n gets upset about not being able to display itself in the unity panel?
<didrocks> pitti: let's try to create new crashers and to remove some stuff in /var/crash little by little
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's my guess
<pitti> didrocks: you can run update-notifier in a terminal to see what it's doing
<didrocks> pitti: it's working when you don't have anything to show (like no root crash), but not for the rest
<didrocks> pitti: well, I tried that and it print nothing like "detected crashâ¦"
<pitti> didrocks: so I guess it's related to displaying the notification icon
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, let's try 1. trigger a new crash
<didrocks> 2. remove the "root owned crash" and trigger a crash
<didrocks> pitti: confirmed, 2. made apport appearing, so yeah update-notifier is upset when it can't show in the systray
<didrocks> seb128: you take care of porting update-notifier, isn't it?
<seb128> sort of
<seb128> I started on it but it has lot of weird usecase that don't work well with libappindicator
<seb128> so I'm not sure what to do
<seb128> like it displays an icon with a tooltip explain to run apt-get -f install when apt is in a weird config
<seb128> or it has code to display a restart icon
<didrocks> urgh
<didrocks> but that's deactivated, right?
<pitti> the restart icon can be dropped, I think
<seb128> pitti, I suggested that but mvo is against it
<seb128> he said xubuntu or other still need it
<seb128> so I basically stepped away from porting to libappindicator
<didrocks> hum, so one indicator for that is not greatâ¦ we can't have multiple indicator for a service I guess?
<seb128> didrocks, so feel free to pick it up if you know what to do with those
<seb128> the other option is to just port the apport icon to libappindicator
<seb128> so having both a notification area icon and an appindicator
<didrocks> and let the other using systray as we don't use that, right
<seb128> but that feels suboptimal
<GunnarHj> pitti: Since I saw that you are having issues with Empathy, I thought I'd mention that I don't find you in the contact list for this room (unlike last week).
<GunnarHj> pitti: I'm still on Maverick, and haven't made any Empathy changes lately.
<didrocks> at least, that won't prevent people to file bug report for now
<seb128> I'm not even sure if they would not conflict if there is no indicator container
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, I'm not using empathy for IRC
<seb128> kklimonda, hey
<GunnarHj> pitti: Still strange that you aren't there, isn't it?
<seb128> kklimonda, can you set me as admin from the gnomemm team as well?
<pitti> GunnarHj: *ond*
<pitti> *nod*, even
<kklimonda> seb128: sure
<nessita> didrocks: I don't... that may be it
<seb128> kklimonda, thanks
<didrocks> nessita: yeah, you should use the distro defaults :)
<nessita> seb128: THANKS!
<nessita> didrocks: I wasn't aware it was a distro default, I unset that from aptitude a long time ago
<seb128> nessita, you're welcome
<kklimonda> seb128: done
<seb128> kklimonda, thanks
<seb128> kklimonda, don't worry about ubuntu-desktop being unsigned and signed in again
<seb128> kklimonda, I was trying to see if there was a way to set the ubuntu-desktop admin as admin of this team as well
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> kklimonda, ok, is there anything blocking moving the glibmm, atkmm and gtkmm vcs there?
<seb128> kklimonda, can you push those with an updated control?
<kklimonda> seb128: I don't think so, I'll do that today
<seb128> kklimonda, I will review atkmm and gtkmm now
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> jcastro, hey
<kklimonda> seb128: and should I worry about you deactivating yourself? ;)
<seb128> kklimonda, no, I just wanted to check for the ubuntu-desktop admin thing, I don't need to be admin of that one I've enough other teams and I've undirect subscription by ubuntu-desktop as well
<GunnarHj> pitti: Had to look up "nod"; think I get it. ;-)
<kklimonda> seb128: ah, I see
<GunnarHj> pitti: Will reply on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/553162 this evening. Maybe we can talk tomorrow?
<seb128> kklimonda, but thank you for asking ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 188)" [Undecided,In progress]
<kklimonda> seb128: I've assumed that direct membership (and deactivation) takes precedence over indirect subscribtion
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'm currently fixing gdm, and will then look at your current branches
<pitti> GunnarHj: yes, I'll be here; I was just off yesterday
<GunnarHj> pitti: Great!
<seb128> kklimonda, the launchpad ui suggests that not, I'm still listed as member of the team by ubuntu-desktop membership, I will let you know if I've any issue
<mvo> pitti, seb128: (on the phone) please don't drop stuff from update-notifier, I would like to go the reverse way and create a new minimal event-notifier and remove the autoopen stuff from u-n and move that to universe
<kklimonda> hmm, anyone is using Evolution with Unity in natty? I can't find the "Hide Read Messages" item in the View menu
<kklimonda> and I'm not sure if it's missing because of the new Evo version or is it a bug in appmenu-gtk
<seb128> it's due to evo
<seb128> I guess they want you to use the combo displayed before the messages lists
<kklimonda> hmm, good to know there is a combo - I haven't noticed it :)
<seb128> the only difference is that the combo settings are dynamic
<seb128> where the menu items was a manual action
<kklimonda> I guess I'm a prime example of how changing an existing UI can confuse users..
<seb128> so if you set on "show only unread" it will hide read messages when you enter the box
<seb128> which is not exactly what you had before
<kklimonda> yes, I can see that now - it's just that I have used the menu items for so long that I didn't even look for an alternative.
<pitti> seb128: has it been discussed already to update gdm to 2.32?}
<seb128> pitti, not sure discussion is needed
<pitti> seb128: want me to work on it?
<seb128> pitti, it's just a fdi thing ;-)
<pitti> seb128: right, my question was "do we have reasons not to"
<seb128> pitti, if you want please do
<pitti> seb128: I don't immediately see any gsettings problems there, as it only uses files
<seb128> pitti, I don't think 2.32 uses gsettings
<seb128> it's just that gdm update tends to break things and required lot of patches updates
<pitti> ok, I'll walk through it
<pitti> our current package doesn't build
<pitti> but git head does
<seb128> ok
<seb128> just take 2.32 I guess
<pitti> so instead of tracking this down, I'd rather like to go forwards
<seb128> we didn't do it last cycle because we though the issues potential against win was not worth it
<seb128> well that's because we didn't know how it would turn for GNOME3 until late in the cycle
<seb128> it's probably fine to update now we are still earlier in natty
<seb128> we have time to deal with issues if there is any coming
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Hi Didier! Saw that you unlinked https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/natty/gdm/lp-553162 from http://launchpad.net/bugs/553162 this morning. (I linked it again before I noticed it was you, and not my mistake.) Since I'm trying to figure out how things around here work, I'm just wondering about the reason for unlinking. After all, the branch is closely related to the bug.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 188)" [Undecided,In progress]
<didrocks> GunnarHj: hey, IIRC, I unlink the "old branch" to link again the new branch (the old merge was giving a 404 as I think you removed it, right?)
<didrocks> GunnarHj: isn't lp:~gunnarhj/gdm/lp-553162 the new one?
<didrocks> the one in merge https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gdm/lp-553162/+merge/42914
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Ah, I did quite a few things in a short time frame...  You are right about the new one; the other is targeting natty (with the same content)
<didrocks> GunnarHj: there should only be one for mental sanityâ¦ it was showing it multiple times in the sponsor list and linked to a 404 page (deleted merge proposal) hence the fact I removed it :)
<GunnarHj> didrocks: I see, then I understand. :)
<didrocks> GunnarHj: no worry, in any case, pitti unsubscribed the sponsors now and will handle it (I was just cleaning that, and pinged pitti to confirm he was on it), the discussion on the bug report is getting way too specific and complex for someone else starting reviewing from scratch :)
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Maybe there is no reason for preparing more than one? Maybe the same branch can be merged to more than one branch?
<GunnarHj> didrocks: You are absolutely right about reviewing. ;-)
<didrocks> GunnarHj: I think in your case there isn't any reason, but again, it's as you wish and as pitti is confortable with now :)
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Ok. Thanks for helping clarify things!
<didrocks> GunnarHj: you're really welcome, thanks for your work on this hard issue :)
<seb128> didrocks, what is the equivalent of autoreconf; ./configure && make
<seb128> in cmake world
<seb128> i.e unity
<didrocks> seb128: there is none, mkdir build ; cd build ; cmake ..
<didrocks> (no no autoreconf-like in cmake)
<didrocks> all is rebuilt each time you cmake ..
<didrocks> (rebuilt == configuration/Makefiles)
<seb128> didrocks, ok thanks
<mvo> seb128: can you please moderate a message from me to ubuntu-desktop ? no idea why it thinks I'm not subscribed
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> mvo, done and you are whitelisted now
<mvo> thanks
<bcurtiswx_> anyone having trouble recently clicking on anything dealing with unity
<bcurtiswx_> i can't click anything on the top ro side panel
<bcurtiswx_> or*
<seb128> mvo, are you on the list?
<seb128> mvo, ie do I need to Cc you on reply or not?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, weird
<bcurtiswx_> is there a way to restart unity without restating session ?
<seb128> compiz --restart
<seb128> ups
<seb128> --replace
<mvo> seb128: I'm on the list
<mvo> seb128: but maybe with michael.vogt@gmail.com
<cdbs> seb128: Green signal for updating gnome-power-manager for the ppa?
<seb128> cdbs, check with chrisccoulson or pitti
<seb128> you should perhaps try to find something easier
<cdbs> :o
<pitti> I haven't looked at that one yet; but didn't we say we wouldn't go for gsettings this cycle?
<seb128> seems they are refactoring this one to move things to gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> pitti, it's for the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> not for natty
<pitti> ah
<jcastro> seb128: what can I do for you?
<pitti> no objections fom my side then, as long as it works :)
 * cdbs will make an attempt
<cdbs> thanks pitti
<seb128> cdbs, you can try things like totem if you want
<cdbs> hmm, thanks for an example
<seb128> or evince
<cdbs> thanks, will look at totem right now
 * cdbs gets down to resolving patches
<pitti> ok, gdm patches mangled sufficiently to let it build .. now let's see whether it actually works :)
<bcurtiswx_> empathy has been mangled to let it start building, but im failing part of the way through :(
<pitti> seb128: new gdm uploaded; at least it helped to drop 7 patches
<bcurtiswx_> is the desktop gnome3 PPA going to eventually end up in natty?
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i've been working on empathy for a while now and it's failing to build after a while into the process.  I'm talking to cassidy and he believes it's a problem with my changes (which is most likely true due to my new-ness to everything).  Would you be able to check out https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.3 and see if you notice anything extremely wrong with what i've done?
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<cassidy> would be better to have the full build logs
<seb128> kenvandine, is patch pilot today ;-)
<bcurtiswx_> OK, cassidy i'll get that to you ASAP
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, sure :)
<bcurtiswx_> how do I get bzr bd to log the build ?
<kenvandine> ugh... so that requires the gnome3 ppa to build
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, yup :)
<seb128> kenvandine, if you don't have it maybe rodrigo_ can help there
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, sure, where can I help?
<seb128> rodrigo_, see what bcurtiswx_ asked 10 minutes ago
<rodrigo_> ah, building empathy, sure
<kenvandine> i just setup pbuilder to pull from the ppa ;)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, so, do you need me to build it?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, no thanks, i am on it
<rodrigo_> ok
<bcurtiswx_> where can i upload a log to?
<seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com?
<bcurtiswx_> well it's a .txt file
<seb128> well open in gedit, select, copy, paste in firefox?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yeah I guess i was just not sure due to its length
<bcurtiswx_> but ok
<bcurtiswx_> gedit segfaults.. great..
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, well otherwise if you have a webserver scp there
<seb128> or email it to kenvandine if you want to send him the log
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, kenvandine http://aurora.gmu.edu/~bcurtis/files/empathy_build_log.txt
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, ok... that means one of the patches is broken for gtk3
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, look at 31_really_raise_window.patch
<kenvandine> or drop it for now to just confirm it builds
<bcurtiswx_> how'd you know it was that causing the fail ?
<kenvandine> the error in the build
<kenvandine> i recognize that code :)
<kenvandine> in fact, that patch might not even be needed now
<kenvandine> since the indicator sends a timestamp back
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, OK do I need to remove the patch file or just edit the series file ?
<kenvandine> the idea was to make the chat window raise when activated from the indicator, before without that it would open but not be in focus
<kenvandine> edit the series should do
<kenvandine> so test that behavior without the patch
<bcurtiswx_> OK building
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, another fail, new this time http://paste.ubuntu.com/540659/
<bcurtiswx_> any idea if its a patch causing it ?
<kenvandine> looking
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, yeah, that is in the indicator patch, looks like something else that doesn't work in gtk3
<kenvandine> GTK_WIDGET_VISIBLE
<kklimonda> there is gtk_widget_get_visible
<kklimonda> most, if not all, macros have been converted to functions
<bcurtiswx_> i can edit from gtk_widget_visible to gtk_widget_get_visible and see if it builds OK
<kenvandine> that is probably the case in the other one as well
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, i'll test this fix and if it works then we can try editing the other patch likewise
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, nope.. didn't fix it
<didrocks> nice, the bug I fixed in lucid for the gnome failsafe session (basically some scripts ignoring arguments in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ for $STARTUP) will be useful for the new session thing as well :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, yay for reuse :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, let me get a build here... and see
<kenvandine> i had to fix up a few build depends
<kenvandine> i get you those changes too
<bcurtiswx_> i appreciate your help, im still learning :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, happy to help
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, ok... i think the problem now is there is no gtk3 build of libindicate-gtk
<kenvandine> :/
<seb128> kenvandine, it's about time you land you tp-approver and that we drop the empathy patch ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe... yeah, so i wonder if i should do that before fixing libindicate :)
<bcurtiswx_> so our patches are fine, but we need GTK3 build of libindicate ?
<bcurtiswx_> or the patches are going to be removed as well ?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, ^^
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, we need a gtk3 build of libindicate, but we do plan to drop that patch once i land my new telepathy approver
<bcurtiswx_> ah, OK
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, so I should just sit back and wait until these tasks are completed ?
<kenvandine> for now, drop the indicator patch too, but we won't upload it yet
<kenvandine> see if you get further :)
<kenvandine> it would be good to have a good picture of all the problems asap
<seb128> kenvandine, bcurtiswx: debian has 2.90 in experimental
<seb128> so I guess without your patches it should build
<bcurtiswx_> i can remove the 20_libindicate patch and try again
<bcurtiswx_> instead of uploading i can PPA it for anyone interested
<bcurtiswx_> seems removing the 20_libindicate patch pretty much forces me to remove the ones ahead of it too
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, i can merge the other changes you have for empathy now if you want, that way I have them
<kenvandine> one sec
<bcurtiswx_> OK
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_,  lp:~ken-vandine/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.3
<bcurtiswx_> bzr merge lp:... ?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, ^^ ?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> should just be changes to the control file
<bcurtiswx_> how do I force the merge and take your changes (ignore any conflicts) ?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, ^^
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> just manually fix the conflicts
<kenvandine> or look at what i changed and just make the changes yourself
<kenvandine> what conflicts did you get?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, pitti: meeting?
<pitti> was just gonna ask :)
<kenvandine> oh... meeting time
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: morning!
<jasoncwarner1> hi everyone
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner1
<jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-12-07
<jasoncwarner1> lets see.
<tkamppeter> hi
<pitti> chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux_, Riddell, kenvandine, mterry, rodrigo_, tkamppeter: meeting ping
<pitti> no cyphermox
<mterry> hihi
 * kenvandine waves
<tremolux_> heyo
<seb128> pitti, he's at a conference yesterday and today
<pitti> hm, we should get back the attendees list to the report template
<rodrigo_> hi
<Riddell> gosh, meeting time
<seb128> pitti, right
<jasoncwarner1> [ACTION] put back attendees list in meeting template.
<jasoncwarner1> is that about right?
<pitti> thanks
<jasoncwarner1> Ok, want to start with reviewing actions from last week.
<jasoncwarner1> I only see one. It looks like it I didn't put it in the 'ACTIONS' summary. And it was for me. :P
<jasoncwarner1> jasoncwarner to negotiate evo-couchdb dropping with U1 team, and automagic installation via u1-control-panel
<pitti> ah, that was on my list of things to ask
<kenvandine> jasoncwarner1, how did that go?
<jasoncwarner1> Rick actually took it and had the conversation before I could. I am to have a follow up conversation this week and I'll let you know about that conversation.
<kenvandine> ok
 * jasoncwarner1 scanning last weeks meeting. 
<jasoncwarner1> I don't see any other actions that didn't make it. did I miss something?
<seb128> seems we should have a conversation about the conversation you will have about the conversations the other guys had ;-)
<rickspencer3> hey jasoncwarner1,  mvo, tremolux_ I don't see any ratings and reviews work items in a2?
<rickspencer3> was there any planned progress there?
<didrocks> seb128: are you sure about your conversation? :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<tremolux_> rickspencer3: yes, there will be additional UI work that has recently been spec'd
<tremolux_> rickspencer3: but a lot of the work is server-side currently
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, pitti: did we stop the meeting?
<jasoncwarner1> morning rickspencer3. I'll put an action to follow up on those. I want to keep the meeting going.
<rickspencer3> sorry to interupt, didn't see you were in the meeting
<jasoncwarner1> [ACTION] BP for ratings and reviews -> jasoncwarner and tremolux_
<tremolux_> cool, thanks
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] partner update
 * kenvandine takes the mic
<kenvandine> U1 has some nice desktopcouch fixes, but they couldn't test them because of another couch bug
<kenvandine> which has been fixed now, so should land in tomorrows release
<kenvandine> DX, the big focus for this week is landing as much of the gdbus changes in the indicator stack as possible
<kenvandine> before tedg goes on vacation
<kenvandine> as well as getting the FTBFS fixes, with the GI changes and new python version
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<didrocks> kenvandine: is it the desktopcouch issue that makes couchjs crashing a lot (and then oneconfâ¦)?
<seb128> is ted on vacation until end of year then?
<kenvandine> didrocks, yes
<kenvandine> well, the couchdb bug that was causing
<kenvandine> seb128, yes
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> so he will dump a bunch of changes on us and leave :)
<seb128> will we get any indicator updates before end of year then?
<kenvandine> we will hate him in 2011
<kenvandine> :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kenvandine> just want we land this week
<kenvandine> s/want/what
<seb128> I need to check with you where we stand but that can be after the meeting
<kenvandine> yeah
<jasoncwarner1> Ok...
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] kubuntu update
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell>  * Alpha 1 out, no major problems
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.6 Beta 2 packaging now in progress, release and natty upload expected tomorrow
<Riddell>  * KDevelop 1.1.1 packaged but won't actually build i natty, doesn't work with KDE Platform 4.6 yet
<Riddell>  * Amarok 2.4 beta packaged
<Riddell>  * KOffice beta packaged
<Riddell>  * Qt now building on ARM, ARM breakage now becoming aparant further up the stack (libgrantlee currently broken)
<jasoncwarner1> very cool. Riddell , any feedback on a1 yet? that has KDE 4.6 right?
<Riddell> jasoncwarner1: yes it was, but I didn't set up our normal feedback page so I've not spotted much in the way of comments
<jasoncwarner1> ok. :)
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] X update -> eastern edition
<Riddell> I've not heard of any problems
<Riddell> which is usually the best thing for alpha 1 :)
<jasoncwarner1> fair enough!
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] Unity update
<didrocks> New unity release and dependencies (nux/bamf) on Tuesday 30th November for alpha1
<didrocks> We decided to not do the Thursday release on the 2nd December to let people reporting issue from the alpha1 live session with apport without having "outdated packages" message from it.
<didrocks> Still a lot of bugs coming and fixing them little by little, but weirdly not a lot of crashers? If unity crashes for you, please report it!
<didrocks> (actually I got a crash after writing that)
<didrocks> (but it wasn't because of unity directly :))
<didrocks> Adding a bitesize tag to some bugs. jcastro and jono blogged about it. Already some people have made nice contribution! Thanks to them  Do not hesitate to enroll as well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<rodrigo_> report it! :D
<didrocks> Coming soon: you will find intellihide for the launcher, lot of nice small fixes in both unity and compiz (like session handling \o/), new gnome-session system.
<didrocks> rodrigo_: already done :)
<rodrigo_> should we also report hardware setups where it doesn't work?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ubuntu-bug unity should report what's needed
<didrocks> so use apport please :)
 * kenvandine hugs apport
<rodrigo_> didrocks, well, when running it, I just get a black screen, with a mouse, so would running ubuntu-bug in that situation peek the correct stuff?
<didrocks> there is a page about how to report bugs for new contributors: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity
<didrocks> rodrigo_: just run that in your ubuntu classic session
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> the list of plugins won't be accurate, but wellâ¦
<didrocks> (compiz plugins)
<jasoncwarner1> Thanks, didrocks
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: should we enable apport by default again?
<didrocks> yw jasoncwarner1
<didrocks> pitti: I have a lot of crashers (not unity ones), so I'm quite unsure about the state if we will be overwhelmed or not
<didrocks> pitti: right now, I'm pointing people having crashes and not apport enabled to that wiki page so that they enable it, it's an additional comment on launchpad, but it seems to work
<seb128> pitti, I'm not a a fan of doing that early
<jasoncwarner1> can you turn apport on for a specific package (unity in this case)?
<seb128> if we had a crash db out of launchpad that would be nice
<pitti> seb128: right, me neither
<seb128> but that's impacting on launchpad now
<didrocks> pitti: btw, it's enabled in the CD, I think it's wanted?
<pitti> didrocks: correct
<pitti> you can report them from the live system
<didrocks> pitti: that's why I hold on updating unity, thinking people will try and report in that case
<didrocks> (and same rationale for compiz)
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, no
<didrocks> so, it's either it's all in a good state (I have almost nothing bothering me using unity full time) or that nobody is trying alpha1 :)
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, it could probably be made but I don't think we can enable it for one source only
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: ok. would be nice in this case, but probably not a generally useful feature ;)
<jasoncwarner1> ok..thanks
<pitti> didrocks: or everyone thinks "this crash is so common that everyone, including the devs, must have it"
<pitti> seb128: well, we can hack it, but a proper solution would take a bit more effort
<didrocks> pitti: maybeâ¦ right. So please, test it, use it! :)
<pitti> I have nothing against a hack
<pitti> if it'd help
<didrocks> pitti: I think the current apport state is fine, it's easy enough to ask people activating it
<rodrigo_> or they're not even testing it, I've seen many people on irc asking how to get their classic session back
<pitti> didrocks: *nod*
<didrocks> so yeah, I'm using unity full time and I love it :)
<jasoncwarner1> when does apport tend to get turned on by default again? A2?
<pitti> I think after a2
<kenvandine> i love it... but miss places and dash :)
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, right, around a2 usually
<jasoncwarner1> ok...works for me. thanks :)
<jasoncwarner1> anything else didrocks?
<pitti> kenvandine: I miss gtimelog :)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: that's it for me :)
<jasoncwarner1> awesome, thanks
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] Software-center
<tremolux_> you bet
<tremolux_>  * Startup performance:  more great progress this week with an additional ~30% improvement on reference hardware (Dell Mini 10)
<tremolux_>   * See http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/software-center/mini10-startup/startup-times.png
<tremolux_>  * Ratings and Reviews:  ISD planning server-side alpha deployment, client-side UI spec'd at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews
<tremolux_>  * Released Software Center versions 3.1.3 and 3.1.4, includes latest performance optimizations plus misc fixes and improvements
<tremolux_>  * In progress: Improvements to the purchase experience
<tremolux_> so, we are getting faster, it's nice
<tremolux_> (that's all for software-center)  :)
<jasoncwarner1> very cool. Thanks tremolux_
<tremolux_> jasoncwarner1: welcome
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: am I missing any categories if we move to AOB?
<pitti> release status?
<jasoncwarner1> thanks :)
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] release status
<pitti> Alpha-1 work items were almost all done; 4 stragglers, moved to alpha-2.
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-2.html is getting behind a tad, but nothign too worrysome yet
<pitti> .. except that now begins the holiday season, which will put us off track
<pitti> and we have quite a large number here
<pitti> of course didrocks alone owns 1/4 of them, so I'm sure it'll be alright :)
<bryceh> heh
<pitti> we fixed 6 RC bugs in the last 2 weeks, and only 3 are on the current release team radar
<pitti> so great progress here
<pitti> only one (bug 637827) will require serious work, the other two are well underwsay
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 637827 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu Natty) (and 4 other projects) "Firefox and Thunderbird (XUL) menus don't appear in the global menu bar (affects: 30) (dups: 5) (heat: 136)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637827
<didrocks> pitti: I'll survive :)
<pitti> (as usual, the full thing is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus)
<pitti> questions?
<pitti> didrocks: please let me know early when you get into difficulties :)
<didrocks> pitti: well, most of them are easy and small. Oneconf ones can be postponed if needed :)
<seb128> pitti, well, if you don't count the dx items our team count seems ok
<seb128> as didrocks was saying without oneconf he should be alright
<didrocks> seb128: but I really want it this cycle :)
<seb128> we can postpone the telepathy-indicator againif required
<didrocks> so, will fight to get it done on time ;)
<seb128> so we have quite some margins
<pitti> seb128: right, but same thing wrt. holidays
<seb128> let's see how it goes
<jasoncwarner1> and don't forget that this list doesn't really include our "make unity awesome" overarching bp ;)
<jasoncwarner1> ok.
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: anything else?
<pitti> I'm done
<jasoncwarner1> thank you!
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] AOB
<pitti> oh, one thing
<pitti> it seems our weekly report is a little thin
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, well, quite some people have 0 items on that iterations
<pitti> only 3 people added to it
<seb128> right, I didn't do that yet
<seb128> doing it now
<jasoncwarner1> thanks, pitti, that was my AOB ;)
<jasoncwarner1> anything else?
<seb128> not from me
<kenvandine> not from me
<jasoncwarner1> [END MEETING] Thanks everyone. I'll update with eastern edition later today.
<bryceh> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<tremolux_> thanks everybody
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> kklimonda, there?
<jcastro> PSA: Please help get the word  out on unity bitesize bugs! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Bitesize
<jcastro> we all have friends that have always wanted to try something in vala, now they have no excuses! :)
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> jcastro: it's part of the report as well
<jcastro> didrocks: I saw, I just wanted to double dip. :)
<didrocks> jcastro: vala or C++ ;)
<didrocks> we give a lot of opportunities
<didrocks> btw, I was going to add a new bitesize one
<didrocks> doing it now
<jcastro> didrocks: yes please, neil and jason keep fixing bitesize ones without adding new ones in, heh.
<didrocks> jcastro: yeah, I've already sent a reminder on that :)
<kklimonda> seb128: hmm, this epoch is going to haunt me at night
<seb128> kklimonda, ;-)
<seb128> kklimonda, I will just drop the epoch and sponsor atkmm now, ok?
<didrocks> seb128: "drop the epoch"? how comes?
<seb128> didrocks, because it's a new source and the epoch in the shlib is just buggy?
<kklimonda> seb128: sure, it seems to be the only thing that came back from the dead (or rather from another branch I've merged)
<seb128> didrocks, it's leftovers from the gtkmm packaging copied
<didrocks> seb128: oh, it's a new source, ok, nice. Was wondering about a magic I didn't know yet :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> brb just restarting with the new gtkmm
<kklimonda> any idea why pbuilder-satisfydepends fails for packages that have both control and control.in ?
<kklimonda> at least when launched by hand
<seb128> ok, works
<seb128> is the control uptodate?
<kklimonda> yes
<seb128> dunno then
<seb128> you are sure it's uptodate in the source?
<seb128> the clean target before the make will update it anyway
<kklimonda> it finds nothing at all to install - creates an empty pbuilder-dummy package with no dependencies
<seb128> but it might be outdated in the source
<kklimonda> I use it outside of pbuilder on my live system
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> I don't use pbuilder so dunno
<kklimonda> interesting, it works when I make it use debian/control.in but they are almost identical (Uploaders: field is different..)
<kklimonda> oh well, it's good enough for now
<seb128> kklimonda, ok, atkmm uploaded
<seb128> kklimonda, have you seen my comments on the gtkmm request?
<kklimonda> not yet
<seb128> kklimonda, ok, basically the gtk build-depends need to be updated
<seb128> kklimonda, do you want to do that and change the vcs to gnomemm now while I'm doing sponsoring?
<seb128> so I can upload that one as well
<seb128> Riddell, hey, could you review atkmm in NEW?
<kklimonda> seb128: will fix it, as for uploading to gnomemm - do I have to do anything more than push branch to lp:~gnomemm/gtkmm/ubuntu?
<Riddell> seb128: ok
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
<seb128> kklimonda, no
<seb128> kklimonda, well edit the control file to have the right url
<seb128> but otherwise no, just push to the new location
<kklimonda> seb128: is there a place in gtkmm sources I can check for the gtk+ version bump? I can't find it in configure.ac
<kklimonda> oh, I see it
<seb128> kklimonda, it's in it
<seb128> I diffed the configure.ac between the versions
<seb128> that's where I saw it
<kklimonda> yes, using diff is a much better way of doing that than just looking through the file
<kklimonda> seb128: should I change Vcs-Browser: and add Vcs-Bzr: ? should I remove Vcs-Svn: ?
<kklimonda> (gtkmm still points to the debian repository in a control file)
<seb128> kklimonda, we usually just set Vcs-Bzr in Ubuntu and drop the other ones
<seb128> you can adapt the Browser one I guess
<seb128> I don't see a reason of not doing it ;-)
<kklimonda> seb128: ok, I've bumped libgtk2.0-dev, changed Vcs-* fields and pushed to lp:~gnomemm/gtkmm/ubuntu
<seb128> kklimonda, thanks
<seb128> Riddell, thanks for newing atkmm1.6
<seb128> kklimonda, ^
<tremolux_> heya didrocks, is there a recommended mechanism for checking whether Unity as active or not?  I have a feature in software-center that I need to shut off when running under Unity
<didrocks> tremolux_: well, that won't tell if the plugin is running or not for user trying ccsm
<didrocks> tremolux_: but you can know you are in the session launching unity by default (and soon, we will force unity to be loaded in that session)
<didrocks> tremolux_: so, that would cover 99% of cases
<pitti> tremolux_: uh, when we get to a situation that individual apps need to be aware of that, that sounds like the beginning of a big swamp?
<tremolux_> didrocks: yeah, maybe  :/
<didrocks> pitti: I think it's for "located at"
<tremolux_> didrocks: exactly
<didrocks> tremolux_: so DESKTOP_SESSION should be gnome, or COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu
<didrocks> tremolux_: as told, we will ensure that the unity plugin can't be removed in those sessions, then there is the case of someone creating another session and activating unityâ¦
<didrocks> tremolux_: and for that, you can't request compiz if the plugin is loaded
<didrocks> tremolux_: that can be a manual check, but that's even more ugly?
<tremolux_> didrocks: yeah, I think the general case would be sufficient
<seb128> tremolux_, is that for the "open the menu and indicates where the new software is installed"?
<tremolux_> seb128: well, it's for the current "Find it in the menu at" feature
<seb128> ok, right
<tremolux_> seb128: we would leave that in for classic gnome
<seb128> tremolux_, doesn't seem to make sense to check for unity
<seb128> you should rather check that the menu is there
<seb128> you could be under xfce
<tremolux_> seb128: yes, we'll have a different mechanism for Unity
<seb128> or $custom-desktop
<robbiew> seb128: pitti: I'm having an issue in Natty where my default browser is set to chrome, but when I select links firefox opens up...is this a known issue or should I open a bug :)
<tremolux_> seb128: oh, that's a good idea
<seb128> robbiew, known issue
<robbiew> cool, thnx
<robbiew> I figured you all were aware ;)
<tremolux_> didrocks, pitti, seb128: thanks guys!
<seb128> robbiew, you can probably edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
<seb128> x-scheme-handler/http=firefox.desktop
<seb128> x-scheme-handler/https=firefox.desktop
<seb128> robbiew, change those by the chrome .desktop name
<didrocks> tremolux_: you're welcome
<robbiew> seb128: sweet..thx
<pitti> seb128: shouldn't respect it the "preferred apps" settings, though?
<seb128> robbiew, then run sudo update-mime-database /usr/share/applications
<seb128> pitti, no, they changed from using the old gconf system to use mimetypes
<seb128> pitti, they updated g-c-c 2.90 for that but since we don't update
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you try to get a backtrace launching compiz on tty1 with gdb after setting COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu?
<seb128> we will have to backport that to our version
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, will do it later, if you don't mind
<didrocks> rodrigo_: sure, just update the bug report
<didrocks> rodrigo_: setting as incomplete for now to keep the new bug state working
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, will send another one from my laptop, which is where I get the black screen
<didrocks> cleaned*
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok :) it's working fine with nvidia here
<didrocks> but not amd64
<rodrigo_> not here, not sure if my very old compiz config has anything to do
<rodrigo_> I haven't used compiz for years, but the old config is still around
<didrocks> rodrigo_: well, your ubuntu profile should be cleaned
<rodrigo_> maybe I should remove all old compiz settings?
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: in the gnome classic session, (the one which has your old config), do you run compiz?
<didrocks> ubuntu classic session*
<rodrigo_> didrocks, no, metacity
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you have a try as well, in case?
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and getting a stack is the same without COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu :)
<didrocks> ok, time for some sport and dinner
<didrocks> see you guys!
<rodrigo_> bye didrocks
<didrocks> see you tomorrow rodrigo_!
 * rodrigo_ also gets out for a bit
<rodrigo_> later
<ricotz> gilir, hello
<gilir> hi ricotz
<ricotz> gilir, regarding elementary-icon-theme -- i hope there is no problem with the tarball if you want to package it, let me know if there is something wrong using it without repacking
<gilir> ricotz, ok thanks :)
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540732/
<bcurtiswx_> i've never seen this error before so IDK what to do about it
<kenvandine> nautilus-sendto-empathy
<kenvandine> it is trying to add files to that package
<kenvandine> which don't exist
<kenvandine> i think someone mentioned that the nautilus-sendto stuff was pulled out of empathy upstream
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, ^^
<kenvandine> if so, you need to remove that package from debian/control and remove debian/nautilus-sendto-empathy.install
<kenvandine> just look in the source
<kenvandine> see if it is there
<kenvandine> hmm
<kenvandine> it seems to be there
<bcurtiswx_> nautilus-sendto is now in nautilus
<bcurtiswx_> iirc
<kenvandine> ok, so drop that package from empathy
<seb128> no
<kenvandine> there is source for it in empathy
<seb128> nautilus has the nautilus-sendto code
<seb128> but software still need to ship a .so to be listed
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> hum
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, so you need to change the list of files to install, and maybe that shouldn't be in the nautilus-sendto-empathy package
<seb128> debian dropped the binary
<seb128> dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/empathy/empathy_2.91.3-2.dsc
<seb128> then compared with what they did
<seb128> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-telepathy/empathy.git;a=commit;h=37f6a938112bd7c40dc5bb1e58069f97e0f5ec93 in fact
<seb128> you might just lack a build-depends on the new nautilus
<bcurtiswx_> nautilus >= 2.91.?
<bcurtiswx_> 3?
<seb128> dunno, check the configure.ac
<seb128> diff -u empathy-2.32.../configure.ac empathy-2.91...
<seb128> and see what requirements changed
<seb128> jcastro, do you have some time to blog or make some noise about a new team?
<bcurtiswx_> NAUTILUS_SENDTO_REQUIRED=2.90.0 but after 2.90.0 it was moved into nautilus
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, what empathy version do you use?
<seb128> cassidy, ^
<bcurtiswx_> use 2.91.3 building
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, I think there was a bug open in bugzilla about that, the configure might need to be update
<seb128> would be better to check with Zdra or cassidy
<bcurtiswx_> whats the correct terminology here.  nautilus-sendto was "moved into" nautilus ?
<seb128> it means nautilus has the code to build the "send to" menu now
<seb128> it's nautilus which read the empathy .so and use it
<seb128> where it was a different source and program before
<seb128> nautilus was launching nautilus-sendto which was using empathy
<bcurtiswx_> OK, then i can wait until Zdra and or cassidy see this ping
<seb128> yes
<seb128> jcastro, stop ignoring me :p
<jcastro> sorry I am busy
<jcastro> which team?
<seb128> jcastro, no hurry, can be for another day
<seb128> jcastro, the gnomemm one
<jcastro> tomorrow please
<seb128> jcastro, I will reply to murray's email now saying we got a team set and the updates in natty
<jcastro> I am trying to fix this unity page
<seb128> thanks to kklimonda
<jcastro> seb128: yeah the mail will be enough to remind me
<seb128> jcastro, if you can pick the infos from the email and blog about it when you have time
<seb128> jcastro, great, thanks
<bcurtiswx_> sound preferences is broken with gnome3 ppa
<seb128> bcurtiswx: it's part of gnome-control-center now
<seb128> how did you open it?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, indicator-sound
<bcurtiswx_> also gnome-control-center is a really small window for me that can't be resized
<bcurtiswx_> and the sound icon in the gnome-control-center seemed to crash
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, oh, i didn't realise the couchdb crasher was blocking other work ;)
<chrisccoulson> someone should have mentioned that, i would have fixed it quicker then ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, whoops :)
<kenvandine> bbiab
 * robert_ancell groan, the weekly summary is already getting feature creep again...
<jasoncwarner1> speaking of weekly summary
<jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-12-07#preview
<jasoncwarner1> RAOF: robert_ancell: TheMuso: bryceh
<jasoncwarner1> ready for meeting?
<RAOF> Morning.
<robert_ancell> yup
<RAOF> Ooh, 9am.
 * RAOF puts down the X pipe.
<TheMuso> Hey folks
<jasoncwarner1> morning everyone!
<jasoncwarner1> I hope no one is flooded right now ;)
<TheMuso> not here, its quite wram already actually.
<TheMuso> warm
<jasoncwarner1> well then, we can get started.
<jasoncwarner1> Don't forget to update the link above with your summary.
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<chrisccoulson> i might sit in on this one ;)
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] Action Item review
<robert_ancell> -1 for adding back attendance list
<jasoncwarner1> -1?
<jasoncwarner1> k, we can discuss later. :)
<robert_ancell> I can't think what audience needs it, and it's easily worked out by reading the log
<robert_ancell> ok
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] X update
<RAOF> The merge window for Xserver 1.10 is/has closing/closed.
<RAOF> There's been somewhat of a merging frenzy, most of which is pretty benign.
<RAOF> RandR 1.4 support with per-crtc pixmaps is a bit scary, though.  We're waiting for the dust to settle before determining whether to move to 1.10 for natty.
<RAOF> (A week ago, 1.10 was a sure thing âº)
<bryceh> RAOF, have you looked at those randr patches yet?
<bryceh> (I've not)
<RAOF> I've skimmed them; much of the changes *are* benign (adding an optional extra hook for drivers which want to do modesetting in one go).
<RAOF> But the crtc-pixmap bit is... dangerous.  But from my understanding is opt-in (ish) by the compositing manager.
<bryceh> so as long as compiz doesn't get updated to start using it, maybe we're ok
<RAOF> If we were using it it *would* fix compiz on large multi-head systems with low max texture sizes.
<RAOF> No more âI plugged in a monitor and desktop effects turned offâ.
<bryceh> perhaps that would be worthwhile ppa juice
<RAOF> Mmmm.
<bryceh> Regarding bugs - there are 6 X bugs reported against natty on our plate - http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> so far, we've been doing pretty good at pounding bugs out as they appear on that chart
<bryceh> (the 3 nvidia/fglrx bugs may be related)
<jasoncwarner1> ok...anything else you guys wanted to add?
<jasoncwarner1> Unless I'm missing a category (possible) we jump right to
<bryceh> jasoncwarner1, nothing from me.  last week was patch pilot for me, and mostly doing bug work and arsenal script fixing beyond that
<jasoncwarner1> [TOPIC] AOB ?
<RAOF> We'll probably want to upload a mesa 7.10 RC/snapshot in the not too distant future, I think.
<RAOF> But that's not this week :)
<jasoncwarner1> TheMuso: robert_ancell ? any other business you guys want to update?
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<robert_ancell> Just a reminder to have a look at the FTBFS list: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<bryceh> for packaging we're mostly in sync with debian/upstream - http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/versions-current.html.  That chart will start getting busy once new xserver hits I bet.
<jasoncwarner1> If not, only thing I wanted to say was that I got a short 'bitesize' bug list for unity.
<jasoncwarner1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<jasoncwarner1> ok. sounds like we are out of topics to discuss. Don't forget to update summary
<jasoncwarner1> Thanks everyone
<bryceh> thanks
<jasoncwarner1> [END MEETING] ;)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, is that list available as JSON by chance?  (kind of a lengthy list to parse by eye)
<robert_ancell> bryceh, not that I know, but it is in the Ultimate Debian Database (UDD) so it must be accessible by better means
<bryceh> RAOF, we can probably just drop -mutouch from universe entirely.  what about -fpit?
<robert_ancell> Lucas Nussbaum is the right person to ask
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner1, 19 minutes - it's a new record! :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wonder what sort of build environment those packages are built in. the firefox build failure looks bogus to me :/
<RAOF> bryceh: What hardware does it support?  It's still got (some) maintenance upstream, at least.
<bryceh> RAOF, dunno offhand
<RAOF> Oh, I'm preparing a core-dev application - if you want to provide an endorsement, it's here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication :)
<bryceh> both -fpit and -mutouch must be Xi protocol breakage, but it does not look like there is a new upstream version (yet).
<bryceh> s/protocol/api/
<TheMuso> Don't forget there is also an FTBFs list on qa.ubuntuwire.com
<bryceh> there are a lot of "libX11.so.6: could not read symbols: Invalid operation" errors
<RAOF> bryceh: -mutouch and -fpit both just got a patch series bumping them to ABI 12 support; they should build at least against 1.10 :)
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner1, why do you want the attendance list back?
<bryceh> RAOF, ok cool, well presumably those will fall off FTBFS once those get merged
<Sarvatt> yeah, fpit hasn't had a release since xserver 1.6 but git works with 1.7-1.9, a release is lined up for 12 it looks like
<RAOF> If nothing else, we could snapshot git.
<bryceh> libtool: link: gcc -D_BSD_SOURCE -Wall -g -O2 -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -o chooser chooser-chooser.o  -lXinerama -lXaw7 -lXt -lXdmcp -lcrypt -lpam
<bryceh> /usr/bin/ld: chooser-chooser.o: undefined reference to symbol 'XMapWindow'
<bryceh> /usr/bin/ld: note: 'XMapWindow' is defined in DSO /usr/lib/libX11.so.6 so try adding it to the linker command line
<bryceh> /usr/lib/libX11.so.6: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
<bryceh> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<jasoncwarner1> robert_ancell: I'm ambivalent to it, personally. If you have strong feelings towards it, we can leave it out. I believe pitti suggested it more as a reminder of who we should poke to start the meeting
<bryceh> that one is for xdm
<bryceh> /usr/bin/ld: pnee-pnee_impl.o: undefined reference to symbol 'XGetErrorText'
<bryceh> /usr/bin/ld: note: 'XGetErrorText' is defined in DSO /usr/lib/libX11.so.6 so try adding it to the linker command line
<bryceh> that's xnee
<bryceh> similarly for xoo
<Amaranth> RAOF, bryceh: compiz already has a solution for windows larger than max texture size, we fall back to the old method of OpenGL compositing before tfp existed. It's slow but luckily the windows that need it usually don't update often.
<Amaranth> Although afaik it's actually broken right now
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner1, pitti, I'm against it, because it's just more text in the summary, and it's already present in the log.  Perhaps as a compromise it could be in the template where the logs go, and is replaced after the meetings are complete
<robert_ancell> As a "expected participants" list
<Amaranth> oops, meeting again, sorry
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, :)
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, we're done
<jasoncwarner1> robert_ancell: that seems reasonable. I can't say I know if anyone else explicitly wants it for their needs, but I don't need it per se.
<Amaranth> Everything in 0.8 that took a texture handle takes a list of textures now, although I'm not sure they all do what they're supposed to with it
<bryceh> robert_ancell, ahaaaaa...  http://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=UnderstandingDSOLinkChange
<RAOF> bryceh: Also, http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<Amaranth> That's because we switched to gold, right?
<bryceh> robert_ancell, so a huge heapload of those FTBS issues are due to implicit linkages that I guess need explicit -lX11 and so on added
<Amaranth> You need to use -lX11
<robert_ancell> bryceh, yes, that's been my experience.
<robert_ancell> bryceh, thanks for the link.  I've opened a lot of upstream bugs, but had trouble explaining why the change is important.  The link will be helpful
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell, most of my issues haven't been with implicit linking, but with linker flag ordering because of the change to --as-needed
<chrisccoulson> something to consider when trying to figure out weird build failures ;)
<micahg> RAOF: so, I seem to get an apport gpu crash for intel if I resume from suspend with multiple monitors enabled (i.e. had a second monitor connected, but pulled the cable), but only the built in screen available on my laptop
<RAOF> That's a nicely specific triggering condition.  Does the GPU hang recovery work in that case?
<micahg> RAOF: what is gpu hang recovery?
<RAOF> Intel (and to a lesser extent radeon) recover from GPU hangs with funky reset logic.
<RAOF> So, if the apport hook triggered but your video didn't freeze, that means the reset worked :)
<micahg> yes, I get my screen back, but 127 crash reports are generated (I guess it keeps crashing)
<micahg> basically kills my laptop for 5 minutes unless I kill apport and kill all the apport-gpu scripts
<RAOF> Ah.
<RAOF> That's distinctly sub-optimal âº
<micahg> I've already reported one of the crashes
<micahg> ooh, it's actually fixed in natty
<micahg> nm then :)
<RAOF> The crash-report storm, or the original crash? âº
<micahg> the original crash
<micahg> bug 629967
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 629967 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt can't recover from corrupted cache files (affects: 1) (heat: 42)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629967
<micahg> oops
<micahg> bug 626967
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 626967 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Natty) (and 2 other projects) "MASTER: Hang in MI_WAIT_FOR_EVENT on framebuffer switch. (affects: 29) (dups: 41) (heat: 348)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626967
<RAOF> Ah.
<micahg> RAOF: sorry to bother you, I just need to catch up on my bugmail :-/
<RAOF> Could you also file a bug requesting a ratelimit on the apport hook?
<RAOF> (If one doesn't already exist, but I'm not aware of one)
<micahg> RAOF: yes, I've been meaning to chat with pitti about it, but I'll just make sure there's a bug filed
<RAOF> We don't really need to get pitti involved, that can just be done in the apport hook in xserver-xorg-video-intel
<micahg> RAOF: oh, ok, I thought someone told me before it's an apport issue, sure, I can file a bug against the driver
<RAOF> Well, it could be fixed generically in apport, but I'm not sure that generating hundreds of crash reports in the space of seconds is a common occurance.
<micahg> makes sense
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-08
<aroman> hey all, I'm working on a new app that is currently in alpha right now, but I could really use bugs/support in improving the app's experience. What is the best way to get people interested in this project? It's on launchpad with a PPA right now.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell, jasoncwarner1: I'm not that picky about the attendand list; we have other means to ping people
<robert_ancell> pitti, hello
<pitti> micahg, RAOF: not sure what you mean about "rate limit", but apport limits the number of crash reports per day per program to at most 2
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> pitti, good, busy :)
<RAOF> pitti: Is that at the collection point, or submission point?  The problem is that the gpu hook can trigger multiple times a second for a good long while, leaving you with hundreds of stored duplicate reports.
<micahg> pitti: must be a bug somewhere then, I can get much more than 2, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540921/
<RAOF> Also, good morning pitti :)
<micahg> more than that, but it shows the point sufficiently
<pitti> RAOF: oh, we don't rate-limit the hooks
<pitti> just the crashes from segfault/python
<pitti> RAOF: this needs to get built into that GPU hook indeed; would you mind filing a bug about it and assign it to me?
<RAOF> pitti:  Certainly.
<RAOF> That'd be filed against x-x-v-intel, right?  Where the hook is?
<RAOF> Also, would you like to give my core-dev application an endorsement, at your leisure? âº https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication
<pitti> RAOF: oh, I thought we ship that in apport, but you are right
<pitti> RAOF: oh, with pleasure!
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Howdie didrocks
<didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Awwlright.
<RAOF> A bit tired, but I've bent the X server to my will, which is satisfying.
<RAOF> How about your fine self?
<didrocks> sure :)
<didrocks> yeah I'm fine
<didrocks> will do a quick unity binary python script today
<didrocks> that will make people's life soooooo easier
<didrocks> like "clean my compiz unity config" :)
<RAOF> Mmm, cleaning
<mpt> mvo, good morning, I have a riddle for you
<rickspencer3> mvo == batman?
<mvo> hey mpt
<mvo> rickspencer3: haha
<mpt> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540836/
<mpt> mvo, that's USC 1.0 crashing. Is it at all possible that 3.0 could have the same problem?
<mvo> mpt: the current version will ignore errors like this, probably 2.0 as well. anoying that 1.0 did not, is it common? the fix is trivial and we could SRU it
<mpt> mvo, I don't know if it's common, someone just asked me on Twitter about it :-)
<mpt> I guess if we had a crash database we'd know how common it was
 * mvo nods
<mpt> mvo, bug 630248 shows it happening in bug 2.1.14.1, bug 661956 and bug 683626 in 3.0.4, bug 667057 in 3.0.5.
<ubot2> mpt: Bug 630248 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/630248 is private
<ubot2> mpt: Bug 661956 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/661956 is private
<ubot2> mpt: Bug 683626 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/683626 is private
<ubot2> mpt: Bug 667057 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/667057 is private
<mpt> ubot2, no they aren't
<ubot2> Factoid "no they aren't" not found
<mvo> mpt: well, not quite. that is also a bug, but a different one
<mvo> mpt: let me fix that
<mvo> mpt: it will only happen if someone changed their locale but did not generate the needed data (that is done automatically when you use language-selector)
<mvo> hm, bazaar.launchpad.net down :/ ?
<mpt> Everything's down except the Web interface right now
<mpt> (that's why ubot2 thought the bugs were read-only)
<mvo> aha, ok. in this case I will take the time to make a cup of tea
<mvo> (or a pot)
<mpt> mvo, I see, all those reported bugs are about apthistory.py as opposed to aptdaemon/client.py
<mvo> yeah, still thanks for pointing them out, I fix this one
<mvo> hrm, that is a nasty one actualy, its locale independant code and yet it parses it for no good reason
<mvo> mpt: bug fixed (modulo that I can not commit it yet)
<mpt> mvo, the apthistory.py one?
<mvo> mpt: yes
<mpt> mvo, so for the client.py one, would a workaround be to use gnome-language-selector to choose another language, and then to reset to the original language?
<mpt> (btw it looks like LP is back up)
<pitti> didrocks: seems unity has an apport hook now, collecting the compiz info; we recently had an email exchange about that, is there still something missing which you'd like to see in unity bugs?
<pitti> didrocks: (apart from the fact that it should be totally broken right now)
<pitti> oh, sorry, it isn't broken
<pitti> the import line is just not necessary at all
<seb128> pitti, I did that one
<seb128> pitti, I don't think there is anything especially missing, I've some pending tweaks to it though
<pitti> ok, thanks
<seb128> np
<didrocks> pitti: the WI is to improve it, like reporting the specifc unity settings we need
<pitti> didrocks: ok; please let me know if you have something you'd like to add, but have trouble expressing that in terms of python and apport
<didrocks> pitti: sure, I'll have a look before the sprint, but it should be ok, maybe adding some questions we will find useful, but i've already done that in python & apport :)
<didrocks> thanks
<mvo> mpt: yeah, the workaround for the client (and the others) is to use languageselector to generate the matching locales
<mpt> ok, thanks mvo
<mvo> yw
<asac> mvo: master
<asac> mvo: hope you are not lagging again
<asac> update-manager now hung and destroyed my disk ;)
<asac> j.k.
<asac> see msg
<mvo> asac: ha!
<nessita> good morning everyone!
<didrocks> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> pretty good, how are you?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks :)
<seb128> hey nessita
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i got your issue today with the doorhanger notification in firefox displaying on all desktops
<chrisccoulson> i ran xprop on it
<chrisccoulson> i might need to get the compiz guys to look at it though, as i'm not sure what properties would make it show on all desktops
<seb128> chrisccoulson, talk to smspillaz
<chrisccoulson> smspillaz, is there anything about this window that would make it display on all desktops in compiz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540986/
 * smspillaz waits for firefox to open
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> it should open fast now ;)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: hmm? some natty change that makes it faster?
<chrisccoulson> if it opens slowly, try killing syncdaemon, that normally works for me
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, yeah, there's a lot of work gone in to improving startup time in firefox, and it opens much quicker now
<smspillaz> chrisccoulson: is it firefox 4's  "give feedback window"
<smspillaz>  ?
<seb128> smspillaz, yes
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: is it any quicker than firefox 4.0 in the ubuntu-mozilla-daily ppa?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's the one
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, it shouldn't be
<smspillaz> maybe that _NET_WINDOW_TYPE_UTILITY along with _NET_WM_ACTION_STICK would do it
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: aw. =\
 * smspillaz checks ewmh
<chrisccoulson> smspillaz, ok, thanks
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: and there i was getting my hopes up
<smspillaz> hyperair: we display certain window types as sticky
<smspillaz> hyperair: tooltips, utility (I think)
<hyperair> smspillaz: er what?
<chrisccoulson> ffox 4 starts here in around 3 seconds to a fully usable browser, with a restored session
<hyperair> that was random, i think
<chrisccoulson> but i have to kill syncdaemon to get it to start that quickly
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: hmm. well chromium starts instantly.
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, so does ffox with a fresh profile. i'm talking about a full session restore with lots of tabs
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: well so was i. for chromium
<chrisccoulson> chromium just took 4 seconds on my laptop with no tabs :O
<hyperair> =O
<hyperair> blasphemy
<chrisccoulson> ok, i just started ffox and chromium side-by-side (warm start), and there's no noticeable difference tbh
<hyperair> meh
<hyperair> firefox takes... 5 secs
<hyperair> and chrome takes 10..
<hyperair> okay, a warm start makes chrome load faster
<hyperair> but firefox takes 3 seconds to warm start
<hyperair> maybe it's the plugins and extensions.
<smspillaz> chrisccoulson: I haven't updated natty in a while, that may be why I am getting the slow starts :p
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i need to update at some point
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, yeah, extensions could cause that. i'd be interested if there is a particular extension which makes it slow though
<chrisccoulson> if there is, then the extension author needs to fix that
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: probably all combined.
<smspillaz> didn't someone try and make a compositing window manager with XUL ?
<smspillaz> I remember seeing a project to do this somwhere
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's a bit of a strange technology choice for a WM ;)
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, mozilla are clamping down quite a bit with third-party extensions atm, particularly back-door extensions (ie, those which get installed in system locations by third party application installers without the users permission
<chrisccoulson> (eg, anti-virus software)
<chrisccoulson> mozilla bug 596343
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 596343 in General "Users should have exclusive control over selecting their add-ons" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596343
<chrisccoulson> there's a plan to disable these extensions on upgrade to ffox4, and give the user a dialog to re-enable the ones they want
<hyperair> hmm that's interesting
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i know ff4 feels snappier to me than chromium does, it has improved a lot
<kenvandine> no stats, just it feels faster to me now
<kenvandine> but i never install plugins or extensions
<pitti> oooh
<pitti> new gir1.0-appindicator-0.1
 * pitti hugs kenvandine
<kenvandine> hehe... not gtk3 yet though
<kenvandine> but at least it builds in natty now
<kenvandine> for multiple python versions too :)
<kenvandine> i will hopefully get the gtk3 bits done today/tomorrow
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks anyway! at least it builds again
<kenvandine> yeah, once i get libindicate building again
<kenvandine> i'll go back to adding gtk3 to appindicator
<pitti> kenvandine: I suppose we don't really need a GIR for the gtk2 version, right?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> well
<pitti> there's still python-appindicator for that
<pitti> and we shouldn't port to gtk2/gi
<kenvandine> yeah, for python
<kenvandine> and we don't really need gir for gtk2 version for anything other than generating the vapi
<pitti> right, but that can happen during build; we don't need a separate binary package for that or so
<kenvandine> true, so do you think i should put the gtk3 gir in gir1.0-appindicator-0.1?
<kenvandine> we had a binary for that in maverick, even though it wasn't useful
<pitti> for now I think yes
<pitti> it's an interesting question what happens once we have gtk4
<kenvandine> then the package names won't be consistent
<pitti> but that's hopefully several years away :)
<mterry> seb128, so what do we need to have happen before we decide to push the GNOME3 control center and its related packages in?  what's the blocker on that?  More testing, more packages?
<kenvandine> we'll have libappindicator1 and libappindicator3-1
<mterry> pitti, that's only a year away I believe
<pitti> mterry: uh?
<mterry> pitti, let me see if I can find the roadmap
<kenvandine> oh man... i hope we aren't going to be building for gtk2, 3 and 4 :)
<seb128> pitti, right, they want to do the next gtk in one yeat
<kenvandine> pitti, that is what i heard
<seb128> year
<seb128> mterry, the issue is to know if GNOME3 will be ready for natty
<seb128> like if they will manage to get something stable and we will manage to deal with the changes, updates our patches, deal with things they dropped
<mterry> seb128, OK, so we're waiting for some number of people to feel like the GNOME3 PPA is solid?
<seb128> mterry, right now it seems it could turn into a lot of work for little win
<seb128> especially that we don't have the cycle to spend only on that
<seb128> we will need to help on unity
<seb128> mterry, I think we would be better saying that we keep it in the ppa for natty
<seb128> but we will discuss that at the sprint
<seb128> or rally rather ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, should i use the gnome3 ppa?
<seb128> your call
<kenvandine> would it be useful enough for testing?
<seb128> we don't lack testing now
<mterry> pitti, can't find an official roadmap, but I recall that being the decision after the latest gtk hackfest
<kenvandine> i have been afraid too... since i have been working on getting things done specifically for natty right now
<seb128> we don't need you to use the ppa
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> then i won't for now :)
<seb128> ok ;-)
 * bcurtiswx_ waves to room
<kklimonda> mvo: what is the status of update-manager-hildon ? python-hildon doesn't build from source, I can't really find a proper site with real tarball releases, 0.9.0 was released in april last year and update-manager-hildon is the only reverse dependency from what I can see. Should I work on fixing the failure or ask to remove python-hildon from archive?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, did we ever hear back to know what to do next for empathy?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, ^^
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, did you get it  built?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, no, it was a dh_* error due to nautilus-sendto-empathy iirc
<kenvandine> oh, right it couldn't include that file
<kenvandine> i would say just do what debian did for now
<kenvandine> it would be useful to just get it built somewhere
<mvo> kklimonda: I kill it
<mvo> kklimonda: I mean, I kill update-manager-hildon
<kklimonda> ok
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, hmm so do we need to change the control file of nautilus-sendto-empathy ?
<kenvandine> that was in the control file for empathy right?
<kenvandine> i think debian just commented it all out
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, kenvandine: no we don't
<seb128> the nautilus in the ppa should be recent enough
<seb128> you just need to figure the right build depends
<seb128> or to check if the configure needs to be updated
<seb128> there is no reason to comment the binary
<kenvandine> then it is probably just debian/nautilus-sendto-empathy.install
<kenvandine> that needs to be changed
<seb128> either that or a build-depends need to be updated
<seb128> what is the configure output?
<mvo> mpt: I spend a bit of time today on deb-thumbnailer, almost ready
<seb128> do you have the build log somewhere?
<bcurtiswx_> so the build-dep of nautilus-sendto or just nautilus needs to be there.  i got confused when someone said the sendto is now in nautilus
<seb128> diff the empathy configure between version
<seb128> so you can figure what build-depends need to be updated or added
<mpt> mvo, cool!
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, it is very useful to look at the configure.ac in the upstream source
<kenvandine> to see what packages it checks for and versions
<kenvandine> so you need to make sure you have build depends for whatever package provides the pkgconfig file for the pkg it checks for
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, i have done this already.  My earlier issue (which I think caused a lot of these issues) is that when I try to install nautilus-sendto right now (with the GNOME3 PPA) it tries uninstalling the rest of nautilus
<bcurtiswx_> it won't let me install nautilus-sendto
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, nautilus-sendto is deprecated
<seb128> it's part of nautilus
<seb128> just install nautilus from the ppa and you get it
<bcurtiswx_> so when nautilus-sendto is required by empathy what am I supposed to do ?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, ^^
<seb128> did you ask cassidy?
<cassidy> seb128, we still need to depend on nautilus-sendto, see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636377
<ubot2> Gnome bug 636377 in General "Bump nautilus dep to >2.91.1 as -sendto is now in-tree" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]
<bcurtiswx_> I'm completely lost on what to do next
<seb128> cassidy, but I though there was no nautilus-sendto in 2.91?
<cassidy> the helper lib is still in a separated module I think
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, ok, so comment the binary and drop the .install
<seb128> what debian did
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, seb128.  the .install file has usr/lib/nautilus-sendto/plugins/libnstempathy.so .. the directory exists.. but no .so file
<seb128> drop the .install
<seb128> not sure what GNOME3 is supposed to do with that
<seb128> but if the .so is not there comment the binary for now
<bcurtiswx_> OK
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, what might be looking for the nautilus-sendto-empathy.install because i can't find it anywhere and I can't build because of it
<seb128> did you read the debian diff I pointed yesterday?
<seb128> comment the binary in the control.in
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, im sorry. i don't see a control.in
<seb128> so control
<seb128> in the debian dir
<bcurtiswx_> yes
<seb128> the file which has the build-depends, depends, binaries etc
<seb128> comment the sendtoone
<seb128> one
<bcurtiswx_> yes.. i already commented that out.. still looking for a nautilius-sendto-empathy.install
<seb128> grep  nautilius-sendto-empathy debian
<seb128> grep for nautilus-sendto in the debian dir files
<seb128> mterry, hey, could you resync libcanberra on debian?
<mterry> seb128, sur
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> they got the gtk3 version in experimental
<seb128> so we should make sure we use same naming etc than they do
<seb128> mterry, if you want to do gobject-introspection as well you are welcome ;-)
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yes i've done that and everything is commented out.. with the #
<bcurtiswx_> unless # isn't a comment in a control file
<mterry> seb128, we'll see, but probably
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, how do you build?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, can you push you work somewhere?
<bcurtiswx_> bzr bd
<bcurtiswx_> yes i will push it if this one last thing doesn't work
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.3
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, thanks
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, what error do you get during the build?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, well now nothing.. apparently i don't know that a commit is required before a bzr bd ?
<seb128> it should not be required
<bcurtiswx_> well it wasn't working before.. but all of the sudden it is.. afte ri committed
<seb128> weird
<bcurtiswx_> i feel like a retarded kid.. but /me shrugs
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, that built fine
<seb128> great
<bcurtiswx_> but
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, Gtk-ERROR **: GTK+ 3 symbols detected. Using GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported
<bcurtiswx_> when running ^^
<seb128> no clue why it could do that
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, have you see that before ^^
<seb128> well it means it loads gtk2 code
<seb128> dunno why though
<seb128> cassidy, ^ do you have any clue?
<seb128> pitti, seems the launchpad update broke the retracers :-(
<seb128> pitti, they are hanging
<pitti> seb128: again? I restarted them about an hour ago
<pitti> *sigh*
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, could it be the patches? some worked but none have been converted to GTK3
<seb128> pitti, well they seem to be stucked
<seb128> pitti, I killed them manually an hour ago because they were stucked for an hour
<cassidy> seb128, empathy is linked on both GTK ?
<seb128> with nothing in the logs
<jcastro> seb128: gtkmm blog queued up, I am waiting for my blog service to fix RSS feeds so it'll come tomorrow or something.
<seb128> cassidy, well, it could be that it loads a .so or something
<seb128> jcastro, ok thanks!
<cassidy> the control center maybe ?
<jcastro> kklimonda: nice work on gtkmm, I know the stack's been frustrating for upstream over the years
<cassidy> empathy itself shouldn't link on GTK2 any more
<seb128> cassidy, ok thanks, I've an idea I think
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, the lpi patch needs to use the gtk3 version of lpi
<kenvandine> so dh_python is now preferred over pysupport right?
<seb128> pitti, do you have some time to investigate the retracer issue or should I try to do that?
<kklimonda> jcastro: hopefully we can get it into shape (and keep it that way) this cycle.
<pitti> seb128: I'm currently fighting with OpenOffice; I can try tomorrow morning
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will just run a retracing manually to see what's going on exactly
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> np
<pitti> seb128: do the dup checker, it's easier
<pitti> requires no chroot
<seb128> right
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, what's the gtk3 version of lpi ?
<kenvandine> seb128, pitti: dh_python is preferred over pysupport right?
 * kenvandine can never keep up with that :)
<seb128> kenvandine,you should ask to doko or barry
<pitti> kenvandine: dh_python{2,3} are the most preferred now
<seb128> I'm not uptodate on python packaging preferred ways
<pitti> they don't need any extra build deps
<kenvandine> wondering if i should change libindicate and appindicator while i am messing with them
<pitti> and work just fine
<pitti> should be a simple change
<seb128> bcurtiswx_: liblaunchpad-integration
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, the library has gtk2 and gtk3 versions
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, you need the one with a -3 in the name
<seb128> same of the configure check
<seb128> you need to check for the gtk3 one
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, launchpad-integration-3.0
<seb128> in the lpi configure patch
<seb128> rather than "launchpad-integration"
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK is the .h file needing the -3.0 as well ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, no
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, it's in a different directory but the pkg-config call handle that
<bcurtiswx_> OK building again
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, says launchpad-integration-3.0 doesn't exist, is it in the GNOME3 PPA ?
<seb128> it's in natty
<seb128> you don't make lot of efforts before asking do you ;-)
<seb128> run apt-cache search launchpad integration gtk 3
<bcurtiswx_> ugh, i do... sorry for apparently being lazy
<jcastro> Laney: we still waiting on MIR stuff?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, no worry
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, install liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-dev
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, it's the gtk3 version
<seb128> you need to update the build-depends as well
<kenvandine> and change the patch
<bcurtiswx_> admittedly, there's a lot i need to learn.. stuff that may come quick and naturally to a lot of you.. I am sorry for appearing certain ways, but I can only say that I'm learning and please bear with me
<kenvandine> to check, the part of the patch that changes configure.ac, make it check for launchpad-integration-3.0 instead of launchpad-integration
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_,  ^^
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, thanks.  I've taken care of the 01_lpi.patch fix.. should I put a version on the -3.0 dep or leave one off ?
<kenvandine> if it didn't have it before, just leave it off
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, it did before.
<bcurtiswx_> i'll just take the old version off, leave it as none for now
<kenvandine> ok, libindicate transition to dh_python2 was quite painless, maybe i'll do appindicator for good measure
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, no ted
<chrisccoulson> does anyone know if libdbusmenu-gtk is going to be using gtk2 or gtk3?
<chrisccoulson> (or will there be 2 versions?)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not sure if you know the answer to that? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, both versions
<seb128> it's pending upload, kenvandine has it ready
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, thanks. so, it's safe for me to use in ffox :)
<kenvandine> speak of the devil :)
<chrisccoulson> i was just thinking the same thing!
<kenvandine> tedg, how is the gdbus branch of dbusmenu looking?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you mean you don't plan to use gtk3 in firefox?! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, i think i'll leave that one for now ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, fun weekend project :)
<chrisccoulson> i might give it a try if i get bored ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you start being lazy I see ;-)
<chrisccoulson> perhaps over the christmas break ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> you first refused to take over libreoffice and now that...
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i hear pitti is doing libreoffice now anyway
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> ;-)
 * pitti slaps chrisccoulson
<tedg> kenvandine, Looking pretty good.  I have libappindicator building with it now -- fixed some pkgconfig errors.
<chrisccoulson> lol
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, just because you are doing firefox gtk3 :)
<tedg> kenvandine, So I'm getting relatively happy :)
<seb128> I've the feeling chrisccoulson would still prefer porting firefox ;-)
<chrisccoulson> oh yes!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<pitti> so would I :)
 * kenvandine is a bit annoyed... no problem getting dh_autoreconf working with libindicate doing multiple python versions
<kenvandine> but it wouldn't work for anything in appindicator!
<pitti> kenvandine: you are doing multiple build trees? but that should be done after autoreconf, no?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> but it was causing make to re-run configure
<kenvandine> and getting the flags wrong or something
<kenvandine> it isn't doing that in libindicate
<kenvandine> no clue why
<kenvandine> but i spent way too much time trying to make that work in appindicator
<kenvandine> it would configure again and get the wrong python version
<pitti> strange; even if it's re-running configure it usually remembers the options
<kenvandine> it isn't an option
<pitti> but perhaps not the env?
<kenvandine> PYTHON=build-$* $(DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT) $(DEB_CONFIGURE_NORMAL_ARGS) $(DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
<kenvandine> so make did a re-check and would configure again with the default python version
<pitti> that looks funny
<pitti> shouldn't that be PYTHON=python$(version) or so?
<kenvandine> whoops
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> PYTHON=$*
<kenvandine> anyway, it gets it from the env
<pitti> kenvandine: do you have the current state in bzr somewhere?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i uploaded it :)
<kenvandine> i can try to add it back to see what happens
<kenvandine> i changed lots of things since though
<pitti> kenvandine: which source package is that?
<kenvandine> indicator-application
<kenvandine> i added it back and we'll see what happens
<kenvandine> i fixed other build issues since
<kenvandine> ok... it works now
<pitti> kenvandine: hm, I don't see any autoreconf in debian/rules
<kenvandine> i guess dropping it got me far enough to fix other problems... which must have been triggering that
<kenvandine> oh... no, i had dropped it
<kenvandine> because i couldn't get it to work
<kenvandine> it was building for both 2.6 and 2.7 targets for python 2.6
<pitti> kenvandine: why do we need it in the first place? we have no patches
<kenvandine> we did
<kenvandine> i had ted roll a release
<pitti> ah
<kenvandine> which we needed anyway
<kenvandine> but it was driving me nuts when i was trying to patch it :)
<kenvandine> must have been an ordering problem of some sort
<kenvandine> touching some file causing it to reconfigure
<seb128> kenvandine, did you talk to mterry?
<seb128> he fixed some similar issues recently IIRC
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> it seems fine now
<seb128> ok
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah, I did fix a problem where 2.7 was installing as python2.6.  If you see it again, I know how to fix
<kenvandine> now i have libindicate ready to upload... and it needs the newer dbusmenu... which isn't ready
<kenvandine> mterry, great
<mpt_> kenvandine, hi, I have a Gwibber question
<chrisccoulson> tedg - do you want me to do the change to dbusmenu to hook up the AboutToShow signal?
<mpt_> kenvandine, is there a way for some other program to get the subset of Gwibber's list of accounts for which it makes sense to post text?
<mpt_> kenvandine, e.g. Twitter and StatusNet and Identica and Jaiku but not Flickr or Digg
<tedg> chrisccoulson, If you'd like that'd be great -- it's on my TODO list and I expect to get to it today or tomorrow -- but I always love help :)
<kenvandine> mpt_, yes
<chrisccoulson> tedg - cool. if i get to the point where i can start to build the ffox extension, then i'll do the change in dbusmenu too :)
<kenvandine> libgwibber provides an api for that
<chrisccoulson> not sure if that will be today or tomorrow though
<kenvandine> mpt_, indicator-me does that now
<mpt_> kenvandine, is there an online reference anywhere?
<mpt_> for the API
<kenvandine> no... sorry
<kenvandine> and the generated docs are terrible
<mpt_> ok
<kenvandine> i haven't figured out how to properly annotate the vala code so the docs get translated to C
<mpt_> kenvandine, one more question: Can Gwibber also tell the program what the character limit is for each account?
<mpt_> e.g. 140 for Twitter/Identica, 1000 for Facebook
<kenvandine> not yet, but that is on my todo list
<mpt_> ok, thank you
<kenvandine> right now gwibber hard codes the limit to 140 for everything
<kenvandine> but i am making it per service, and the posting widget will allow you to post up to the limit of the lowest selected account
<mpt_> ok, I'm not using the posting widget
<kenvandine> so if only facebook is selected you can post up to 500ish characters, but if you are posting to twitter and facebook it will limit it to 140
<kenvandine> ok, well there will be an API to provide that :)
<mpt_> but a checkbox "[/] Also post this review to: [Twitter (@mpt) :^]
<kenvandine> nice
<mvo> didrocks: hi, is com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service trigger dbus-activate enabled, i.e. is it save for me in software-center to ping this interface without triggering a strart of it?
<mvo> didrocks: to see if unity is active in the current session?
<didrocks> mvo: it is dbus activated
<mvo> hrm, ok
<didrocks> mvo: still need a respawn though, so don't rely on events right now :)
<mvo> I just need to remember now how to test the bus without triggering the activation
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, sounds the best way to know if unity is there or not :)
<mvo> thanks didrocks, I will ponder about it over dinner
<didrocks> mvo: yw
<seb128> pitti, ok, no luck with the retracers
<pitti> no luck with OO.o either *sigh*
<seb128> the dup checking queue is empty
<seb128> I tried in a retracer to run it manually on a bug
<seb128> but the --auth=... doesn't seem to work
<seb128> it wants to do the "start a webbrowser" thing
<seb128> I'm wondering if retracing hangs on that as well
<seb128> do we need an updated token?
<mvo> didrocks: bus.name_has_owner() was what should not activate it, fortunately my memory is just slow not faulty
<didrocks> mvo: oh nice, I didn't know that one. Ok updating that in my head when someone will ask me "can we detect if unity is launched or not" :)
<didrocks> mvo: there will be false positive on --replace, but wellâ¦
<mvo> oh, because it keeps running?
<mvo> well, bad luck ;)
<didrocks> mvo: yeah :)
<seb128> we need to have a standard code snippet to detect if unity is running somewhere
<seb128> or unity to get a UnityRunning() method on dbus
<didrocks> mvo: what you really want is asking compiz if the plugin is loading or not (and if compiz is running firstâ¦)
<seb128> we will have to do such checks in several applications it seems
<seb128> didrocks, could unity have a method on dbus for that?
<didrocks> seb128: that's a nice idea and can be easy I think
<seb128> so we would just have to use that from clients...
<didrocks> seb128: will file a bug? or do what to file it?
<didrocks> then, that's totally a thing our team can deal with
<seb128> didrocks, I will file a bug and let you know
<seb128> so we can add it to the contributors list
<didrocks> seb128: exactly :)
<didrocks> mvo: seb128: neat idea on this, it just need to be in the unity compiz plugin. Thanks! :)
<seb128> thank you ;-)
<mterry> seb128, let's say a library changed names from foo1.0-1 to foo-1.0-1.  If I just do provides/conflicts/replaces, will that cause a build failure for other packages because now foo1.0-1 is only virtual, or does that get handled correctly?  (i.e. do I need a dummy transitional package?)
<seb128> mterry, I guess it's for gir?
<mterry> seb128, yeah libgirepository
<seb128> mterry, c;p;r is enough
<seb128> the virtual will works if the requirement are not versioned
<mterry> seb128, so if there is a versioned depends (which seems not unlikely, I'll check), I'd break builds unless I do a transitional package?
<seb128> mterry, there is like 6 rdepends
<seb128> we don't add dummy binaries for small numbers
<seb128> we just do the 6 rebuilds
<mterry> seb128, OK, will start doing rebuilds then  :)
<mterry> seb128, so answer was need transitional package for large numbers of versioned depends, else don't bother
<seb128> mterry, the depends are versioned
<seb128> there was a shlibs on the lib
<seb128> mterry, yes
<mterry> seb128, oh right, because it would also break upgrades, not just builds
<seb128> mterry, right, the builds will likely not break
<seb128> only the runtime lib has been renamed
<seb128> we probably just need a no change upload for those rdepends to pick the new depends
<mterry> seb128, gp, builds would point right at -dev
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> have a good evening pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<mterry> seb128, son of a ...  I don't have upload rights to libcanberra or gobject-introspection.  can you push for me?  Both are in bzr
<johanbr> has anyone tried to compile the gnome-shell 2.91.3 tarball? after fixing a bunch of missing includes, compilation finally breaks with "st/st-texture-cache.c:270: error: 'GdkRGBA' undeclared (first use in this function)"
<micahg> johanbr: I started on it, but didn't get too far
<seb128> mterry, ok
 * mterry starts thinking more seriously about core-dev
<johanbr> micahg, alright, thank you... I'll see if I can get it to compile
<micahg> johanbr: I probably won't have time until the weekend to get it working
<seb128> johanbr, do you use natty or the gnome3 ppa builds?
<johanbr> natty
<seb128> ok, not sure how well it will work on natty
<seb128> you might get closer with the ppa
<johanbr> alright, I'll give that a try if natty doesn't work
<johanbr> thank you
<milanbv> johanbr: I guess you need the latest GTK 3 (2.91.6)
<johanbr> milanbv, ahh... that might be a problem
<milanbv> OTOH GdkRGBA seems to have been present for several releases...
<didrocks> ok, time for some sport and dinner, see you tomorrow guys!
<milanbv> johanbr: does the file include gtk/gtk.h?
<johanbr> you mean the one where compilation breaks? yes
<johanbr> but I think that was a case of it finding the 2.0 gtk/gtk.h file
<johanbr> anyway, got it to compile now, but linking breaks... will have a look at that later
<seb128> kenvandine, there?
<kenvandine> seb128, yup
<kenvandine> working with tedg to try to get things to land linked to the right libs
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> seb128, what's up?
<kenvandine> i am finding what is breaking on my laptop :)
<kenvandine> good times
<seb128> kenvandine, did you send your gdk-pixbuf vala gir patch upstream yet?
<kenvandine> not for that one, no
<kenvandine> not sure if it is worthy of merging
<kenvandine> since it is for 2.x
<seb128> kenvandine, hum, ok, it's the only diff we have with debian on this source
<seb128> kenvandine, we could sync if we didn't have the patch, but it's a detail
<kenvandine> i think it will end up only being temporary
<seb128> ok, thanks
<kenvandine> once the GIR stuff stabilizes, in theory we won't need it
<seb128> kenvandine, do you need any help for landing or testing ted's libs?
<kenvandine> same for the patch against gtk2, i only submitted it for gtk3
<kenvandine> seb128, nah
<kenvandine> i am mostly blocked on him
<seb128> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
<kenvandine> the suck now is libindicate FTBFS, and the fix won't build without a dbusmenu rebuild
<kenvandine> but dbusmenu FTBFS without the new version
<kenvandine> gi-repository versioning
<kenvandine> ugh ugh ugh
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll be out for a bit this afternoon in case anyone is looking for me... taking a late lunch that will likely be longer than usual
<kenvandine> but i'll be back
<kenvandine> leaving in about 30m
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<seb128> kenvandine, " but dbusmenu FTBFS without the new version"
<seb128> can you explain?
<kenvandine> seb128, oh... and more fun, tedg split indicator-application and appindicator into two sources, so with the gdbus branch landing we'll have some NEW'ing to do
<seb128> do we have a circular depends?
<kenvandine> the current dbusmenu won't build
<kenvandine> because of GI changes
<seb128> NEWing is not an issue
<seb128> well, let's land the new version?
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> but libindicate won't build against the version in the archive because has gi-repository version of 1.1
<kenvandine> and it needs 1.2 for g-ir-scanner
<kenvandine> dbusmenu is being reviewed for merging in trunk, i think
<kenvandine> i have the branch with packaging so i can prepare
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> will do that after i get back, so we are positioned to rapidly upload stuff when the floodgates open :)
<seb128> seems the way forward is to get the new libdbusmenu to land
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> let me know if I can be useful
<kenvandine> and i think tedg said that was like a 7900 line diff
<seb128> or drop me an email if I'm off for today
<kenvandine> so reviewing is taking time
<kenvandine> will do
<kenvandine> tedg, any chance that will land today?
<seb128> ok
<seb128> do we we someone interested by updating xchat-gnome to a git version?
<seb128> or gnome-pilot to the current stable
<seb128> or sound-juicer?
<seb128> seems contributors tasks for people who want to do something
<seb128> let a comment on the channel if interested ;-)
<seb128> Laney, hey, do you know if debian is going to update gnome-sharp2 to 2.24.2?
<seb128> Laney, or mono-addins to 0.5
<seb128> mterry, is there anything stopping to land the new vte in natty?
<mterry> seb128, uh, no?
<mterry> seb128, I cleared up issues of package naming with the debian folk
<mterry> seb128, except I have to implement one packaging change on top of what the PPA has before it hits natty
<seb128> mterry, ok, no hurry but seems one of the updates than we could land in natty
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> I'm trying to clean http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html ;-)
<asac> pitti: hey
<chrisccoulson> tedg - oh, i sort-of need a menu-closed event in firefox too ;)
<chrisccoulson> although i can perhaps work around that
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Just to be curious, why?  What do they use that for?
<chrisccoulson> tedg - each menuitem in the DOM has an "open" attribute
<chrisccoulson> which is public, so i've no idea what's using that
<chrisccoulson> sorry, i meant each menu rather than menuitem
<chrisccoulson> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/menu
<tedg> Yeah, if it exists, you can pretty much assume that someone is using it for something stupid :)
<chrisccoulson> i was thinking i could probably just reset the attribute when you activate a child menuitem, or open another menu
<chrisccoulson> but then there would be a corner case where the user opens a menu and then just closes it again
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Yup, it would be interesting to see who uses it.  There might be use-case we're missing and should handle more eloquently.
<tedg> Or it just might be crap code that uses it ;)
<chrisccoulson> tedg - hmmm, it's used in a few places in ffox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/541138/
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> good, busy :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> what are you working on recently?
<seb128> GNOME3 in the ppa still?
<robert_ancell> yes, we're mostly up to date wifth the stable stuf
<robert_ancell> Been sending a lot of patches upstream for build failures
<seb128> nice
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, are you having any gdm issues?
<robert_ancell> I notice it just upgraded
<seb128> I didn't update to 2.32 yet
<seb128> it's pitti who did the update
<robert_ancell> there may be a problem there, I'm running lightdm at the moment as I couldn't log in...
<seb128> we got a bug saying that "enter" is not working to select the default user
<robert_ancell> I was just going to ask you if you knew of any reason to not upgrade - I was wary of doing it
<seb128> but otherwise nobody complained
<robert_ancell> When I log in, it returns immediately to the login screen
<seb128> seems gnome-session is crashing?
<seb128> it could be the changes didrocks do
<seb128> the standard session is unity now
<robert_ancell> yeah, I was thinking that or compiz, but the logs don't say anything interesting
<seb128> there is a "classic" session as well
<seb128> which is old GNOME
<seb128> but quite some people got bitten by custom compiz configs
<robert_ancell> that's what I'm running now. Unity doesn't work in LightDM properly, haven't worked out why
<robert_ancell> seb128, so is compiz supposed to be running the gconf backend or the keyfile one?
<seb128> did you try to start a session for a new user?
<seb128> robert_ancell, gconf
<robert_ancell> not yet
<seb128> you should perhaps rm .config/compÃ®z-1
<seb128> unset /apps/compiz-1 in gconf
<seb128> unset /apps/compizconfig-1 in gconf as well
<robert_ancell> seb128, will do that
<seb128> default is compiz with unity activated using gconf
<seb128> no gnome-panel
<seb128> the "classic" session is normal compiz and gnome-panel
<robert_ancell> when it breaks I miss it, so I think that means it's better
<seb128> what? unity? ;-)
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> check COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE also
<robert_ancell> env variable?
<seb128> it should be set to "ubuntu" in the unity session
<seb128> yes
<seb128> see /etc/X11/Xsession.d/65compiz_profile-on-session
<seb128> that's the unity profile
<TheMuso> I have to switch to the user login window with latest gdm, but the classic session is working fine here.
<robert_ancell> The upgrade seems very unstable, but didrocks is working on that right?
<seb128> robert_ancell, how unstable?
<seb128> like people getting screwed sessions?
<robert_ancell> seb128, these previous configuration issues
<seb128> I think it's people who activated and desactivated unity manually in ccsm
<robert_ancell> but it's hard to tell, because I upgraded early, and video has been pretty unstable for me the last month
<seb128> not sure how much can be migrated without breaking the "preserve user config"
<seb128> that's why we have a new profile
<robert_ancell> surely the unity profile will ...
<robert_ancell> right, I was just about to say that
<seb128> it's just that people who upgraded during the time the migration was still buggy got a buggy new profile
<seb128> not sure it would still affect people coming from maverick
<seb128> or just people who have been running natty early enough to migrate at a buggy time
<seb128> we will need to test that for sure
<seb128> but didrocks thinks the migration should be mostly ok now
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, are you talking with the Debian guys about the GNOME3 packaging much?  I hope all the work we're putting into the PPA will be used by Debian, and we're not going to have a bunch of difficult merges coming up
<robert_ancell> Is there more we should be doing to raise visibility with Debian?
<seb128> I pinged them on #debian-gnome the other day
<seb128> I gave them the ppa url
<seb128> told them to check with me before starting on update or at least to check what we did
<seb128> so we don't duplicate work
<robert_ancell> ok, good
<seb128> I will try to commit some of the work we did in their svn
<seb128> or maybe just dump most there
<seb128> so they can't ignore it :p
<seb128> I've been sending to debdiff to the bts already recently
<robert_ancell> seb128, a good one to do is gtk-engines, because it appeared they hadn't done that yet
<seb128> I was not sure what to work on to be honest
<seb128> GNOME in natty is mostly uptodate
<seb128> GNOME3 is not really something that needs to land now
<seb128> ideally we should start hacking on unity
<robert_ancell> agreed, I think it's pretty clear now we're not going to have any GNOME3 apps in natty
<seb128> robert_ancell, well, we could have some
<seb128> gnome-utils
<seb128> gnome-games
<robert_ancell> seb128, just minor ones
<seb128> gcalctool
<seb128> then perhaps anjuta
<micahg> gnome-shell?
<robert_ancell> seb128, not even gnome-games, we still haven't ported all the games to GTK3
<robert_ancell> micahg, I think we can't due to gnome-session
<seb128> robert_ancell, well at least it doesn't bring other components in
<robert_ancell> (but it can be in the PPA)
<seb128> micahg, no, I think it's for the ppa
<seb128> it will need lot of updated components for their indicators and integration
<seb128> they are patching different sources to provides infos on dbus they can use
<chrisccoulson> hi robert_ancell! what are your plans for yelp btw? i see you updated the build-depends in the last upload to make it work
<robert_ancell> The good news with the PPA is we've done most of the hard work, so it shouldn't be too hard to keep it up to date.
<micahg> seb128: oh, hmm, so the distro version will be unusable then? or I'll just have to fix it to work with the gnome 2.x libs
<chrisccoulson> if we're keeping the current version, then i need to fix it ;)
<seb128> micahg, I think we should remove the universe version and just have it in the ppa with GNOME3
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
<seb128> robert_ancell, right
<chrisccoulson> gnome-shell?
<seb128> yes
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yes, thanks for that!  I updated to the latest stable when you did that.  I want the next one, but I need to get a webkit package working.  Been talking with Debian a little about that, they want the package to build both gtk2 and gtk3 binaries, which is a huge pain in the arse.
<seb128> does anybody has a natty pbuilder?
<chrisccoulson> i haven't set up one yet
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes
<micahg> seb128: well, since we're not jumping to GNOME 3 yet, I think we can get away with it
<TheMuso> I have a natty sbuild.
<micahg> seb128: I have one
<seb128> robert_ancell, can you run apt-get update and try to install the build-depends for rhythmbox?
<seb128> or micahg or TheMuso
<seb128> just trying to figure what makes the rhythmbox upload fail to build
<TheMuso> sure just a sec.
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell, so, we're still hopeful for getting the webkit version later in the cycle?
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yes, it's just going to take a little time
<seb128> robert_ancell, can we downgrade it to the gtk2 stack?
<seb128> I think pitti is going to kill you if you try to get a second webkit build on the CD ;-)
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll leave that one off my list for now then
<robert_ancell> seb128, it would probably be hard.
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so for next cycle as well I guess...
<micahg> seb128: I think it's expected ATM
<seb128> robert_ancell, what do they use from gtk3?
<seb128> micahg, <doko> seb128: any idea about the uninstallability of the thythmbox build dependencies?
<TheMuso> hrm schroot is complaining about something here, gotta fix that up first.
<seb128> micahg, still I think dodo would like to not what to unblock
<seb128> if you are speaking about rb
<robert_ancell> seb128, but I don't know, it's worth investigating.  Yelp is the only package that has a compelling reason to upgrade.  I'll have a look.  We'll still have to get any other Webkit packages to upgrade to the latest version though
<micahg> seb128: no, second webkit
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, well you say it's probably hard but you don't know ;-)
<seb128> it could be just patching the configure to check for gtk2
<robert_ancell> seb128, first I was thinking that webkit would need patching, but it's supposed to compile with GTK2.  But I've looked at other packages, and the patches aren't trivial
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, because there are a number of important API changes
<micahg> seb128: the only thing with dropping gnome-shell is we have some regular users of it who might be upset about dropping it
<robert_ancell> seb128, yelp does not support GTK2 anymore
<seb128> micahg, well, would they feel better about having a 6 months old version?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so let's not bother with it
<seb128> robert_ancell, I suggest focussing on unity for now
<seb128> we can sort GNOME3 at the sprint
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure
<seb128> it's getting close from end of year break anyway
<micahg> seb128: yeah, I guess that will make people just as upset, you think we can add something to the release notes about the GNOME3 PPA?
<seb128> yes
 * robert_ancell wants a bzr-pbuild
<TheMuso> Tried to install rhythmbox build deps in a chroot, and it looked like apt was happy. Updating my mirror again to see if newer packages change things.
<micahg> seb128: ok, so should I still work on it then and propose a merge for someone to upload to the -desktop PPA?
<seb128> micahg, if you want sure
<seb128> we will get as much of GNOME3 as we can in the ppa
<robert_ancell> seb128, micahg, which will probably be all of it according to http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<robert_ancell> micahg, please help updating it if you can!
<micahg> robert_ancell: I'll be glad to help :)
<robert_ancell> seb128,   libgirepository-1.0-1: Conflicts: libgirepository1.0-1 but 0.9.12+git20101124-0ubuntu2 is to be installed.
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128, is that what you got?
<micahg> how are you handling bugs WRT the GNOME3 PPA?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I don't have a pbuilder there to try
<seb128> micahg, we don't ;-)
<robert_ancell> micahg, just open them against the normal packages, but make clear it's the PPA version
<micahg> robert_ancell: ok, maybe there should be a tag, like GNOME3?
<TheMuso> Only have to fetch 135MB of updates for my mirror, so should be able to confirm robert_ancell's findings soon.
<robert_ancell> micahg, they'll probably just sit there until N+1, but we can forward them upstream
<robert_ancell> micahg, good idea
<seb128> robert_ancell, TheMuso: ok thanks
<seb128> python-gobject needs a rebuild
<micahg> robert_ancell: if you like, I can bring it up in the bugsquad meeting on Tuesday so others are aware and don't close them
<robert_ancell> micahg, yes, thanks!
<TheMuso> /c/c
<micahg> robert_ancell: I'll let you know the outcome of the meeting
<TheMuso> http://paste.ubuntu.com/541185/
<TheMuso> ^^ attempting to apt-get build-dep rhythmbox.
<seb128> ok, same that robert_ancell
<seb128> it's due to python-gobject, I've uploaded a rebuilt now
<TheMuso> ok.
<seb128> robert_ancell, what do you think about dropping the desktop effect tab?
<seb128> in gcc
<seb128> it doesn't really fit for unity against GNOME nowadays
<seb128> the fallback should just work
<robert_ancell> seb128, why not just hide it when in unity?
<seb128> the users who want to tweak their wm can do it in gconf
<seb128> well GNOME3 drops the appearance capplet
<robert_ancell> We can either hide it or remove it - there's not much difference
<seb128> so I was pondering just drop it now
<robert_ancell> right, so it's gone in N+1 anyway
<seb128> rather than spending time to make it be smart about unity
<robert_ancell> I'm OK with removing it.  I'm sure there'll be some people who complain though
<seb128> it doesn't work with compiz 0.9
<seb128> either
<seb128> so it needs work
<robert_ancell> well the patch will be if (!getenv("COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE")) gtk_widget_hide()
<robert_ancell> oh, then it's gone
<seb128> lol
<seb128> g-c-c needs a rebuild as well
<seb128> if you have time today feel free to do it
<seb128> I will have a look tomorrow or next week otherwise
<seb128> (I'm having friday off again this week)
<robert_ancell> ok, will do
<micahg> robert_ancell: minimal GNOME3 means no major GTK3 infrastructure porting, right?
<robert_ancell> micahg, do you mean can an app be GNOME3 and still use GTK2?
<micahg> robert_ancell: no, I mean are we porting any shared parts of the desktop to gtk3?
<micahg> like stuff that Xubuntu would be using
<robert_ancell> micahg, no, we're only providing the GTK3 stack, everything is remaining as it was, none of the shared components will change (e.g. to gsettings)
<micahg> robert_ancell: great, I'll pass that along, thanks
<kklimonda> heh, this new tab grouping in Firefox is dangerous - I no longer close tabs, just open new groups ;)
<kklimonda> and firefox is using more and more memory :/
<micahg> kklimonda: I'm hit by the same thing :)
<kklimonda> it's a cool feature but it needs more polish to ease tab management.
<kklimonda> jcastro: I think I can update glom to 1.16.2 now
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-09
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hi asac
<pitti> robert_ancell: I saw the "enter" bug in gdm, can reproduce
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> I need to leave for ~ 3 hours for an appointment
<pitti> see you later
<didrocks> pitti: see you!
<mvo> hey, could someone running natty please let me know if http://pastebin.com/dgwVq9ap work? i.e. if clicking on the url produces the print message. it dosn't on my system, but seems to be super strange
<didrocks> mvo: clicking on the url doesn't print anything on the terminal
<didrocks> hey mvo
<mvo> didrocks: thanks! meh, that works just fine in maverick and should according to the docs, I looked over the pygtk debdiff but the changes there look like they can not cause anything like this
<mvo> didrocks: at least I know I'm not crazy :)
<didrocks> mvo: hehe, happy to keep you in a certain sanity ;)
<rodrigo_> morning
<mvo> hey seb128, good morning :) I have a bug for you - bug #687732
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687732 in pygtk (Ubuntu) "gtk.Label <a href> link-activate signal broken in natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687732
<didrocks> morning rodrigo_
<mvo> seb128: have you seen anything like tihs?
<mvo> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> mvo: waow, you are quick to open a bug and ping people :)
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, mvo
<mvo> didrocks: it blocks me! well, a bit :) I added search suggestions to software-center, i.e. if you mispell didrocks, it will ask you if you meant ditrack
<seb128> hello mvo
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, rickspencer3_
<mvo> didrocks: keyboard navigation works, so its not terrible
<didrocks> mvo: oh nice for search suggestions :)
<mvo> didrocks: yeah, it works quite well - except that you can't click on them ;)
<mvo> but yeah, I should let the matter rest a bit and work on something else in the meantime
<seb128> mvo, confirmed, and it's a bug in GTK
<seb128> mvo, you get the same issue in the gedit about dialog for example
<mvo> ha!!!! itz compiz (it seems)
<mvo> I just switched to metacity and there it works
<seb128> didrocks!
 * mvo shakes his fist 
<didrocks> what what? ;)
<mvo> dear compiz, mouse events are mine, kthxbye!
<didrocks> mvo: can you open a bug, set it high and assign to smspillaz ? :)
<Laney> jcastro: MIR: yes afaik. Don't know how to make it happen...
<seb128> hey, let's blame it on smspillaz
<Laney> seb128: gnome# and mono-addins: After squeeze or when something needs it
<Laney> wouldn't worry about those two
<seb128> Laney, I'm basically trying to clean the versions list
<Laney> yeah I thought as much
<seb128> mvo, I guess reassign the bug from pygtk to compiz
<seb128> then assign to smspillaz
<seb128> Laney, what are the mir you are waiting on?
<Laney> banshee banshee-community-extensions
<Laney> and deps
<seb128> ok, I will try to unblock that
<seb128> didrocks, softwares not working in appmenu are bugs there usually
<seb128> not in the software
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> especially if the said software is using gtk
<didrocks> seb128: oh really? I thought it wasn't based on gtk as I didn't use it, sorry my bad, fixing
<rodrigo_> hmm, I can't use the mouse / keyboard on gdm after a full upgrade
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't say acroread is based on GTK
<didrocks> seb128: fort those not based on GTK, we workarounded it in the package by not exporting the variabla
<seb128> didrocks, though apt-cache seems to indicate it is
<didrocks> variable
<seb128> didrocks, well, I'm not sure why non GTK softwares should get any change
<seb128> since we patch GTK
<seb128> we don't patch ie motif to behave differently
<seb128> so softwares out of GTK and Qt should not care about what to do GTK
<seb128> not sure what I say makes sense ;-)
<seb128> I know we filter out firefox but that seems rather a workaround to a bug in appmenu as well
<didrocks> seb128: I agree on the principle :-) I just saw that we removed the env variable in the desktop files in those case
<mvo> seb128, didrocks: reassigned and assigned - thanks
<seb128> mvo, thanks!
<didrocks> mvo: thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: then, I don't really care if the blacklist is in appmenu or in the desktop file app package :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, already fixed the 'needs-fixing' in https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/2_91_3_release/+merge/42134
<didrocks> seb128: just tell me where you want me to assign to :)
<seb128> didrocks, let it there for now, I'm pretty sure the acroread is a duplicate one anyway ;-)
<didrocks> probably, yeah :)
<seb128> bug #664647
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664647 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "acroread menu captions not transfered (affects: 3) (heat: 97)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664647
<seb128> didrocks, ^ if you want to dup it
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, sorry I forgot about this one, I will sponsor the pending merge requests today
<rodrigo_> seb128, no problem, and thanks :)
<seb128> Laney, well, seems robert_ancell did the gnome# update this night
<seb128> Laney, which solves the issue of knowing if debian will do it or not I guess
<Laney> err, alright
<seb128> didrocks, you will get compiz or unity updates out today?
<didrocks> seb128: unity for sure, compiz not sure
<didrocks> seb128: there is not a lot of "hard focus" fixes for us
<didrocks> like the gnome-panel crash, no progress on the menu still not working with the fix
<seb128> I want compiz to not block my sessions for 15 seconds when closing one!
<seb128> when do you think that fix will land?
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: this fix can land, but it needs to rebuild everything and the pending fix on gnome-panel crash can have another abi bump. I wanted to avoid two abi bumps in a row :)
<seb128> didrocks, the session saving is an abi break?!
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> compiz sucks :p
<seb128> weird that such details impact the abi
<didrocks> seb128: not the session saving particularly, but I think we are more in a point that we want to make dist than cherry-pick patches
<seb128> didrocks, ok, with some luck those bugs will be fixed before your holidays
<seb128> I've the feeling we will get that broken session thing for another 3 weeks :-(
<didrocks> seb128: if there is still nothing new, I'll definitively upload a make dist on Monday
<didrocks> at least, that's my plan :)
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> thanks
<rickspencer3_> hi seb128, and everyone
<seb128> hey rickspencer3_
<didrocks> hi rickspencer3_
<rickspencer3_> hey didrocks
 * rickspencer3_ is learning mago
<seb128> rickspencer3_, as an user? ie writting test cases?
<rickspencer3_> seb128, correct, writing test cases
<rickspencer3_> working on shotwell atm
<seb128> great ;-)
<rickspencer3_> it's a bit different than other test frameworks I've used, so a bit of ramp up
<rickspencer3_> and have to learn a bit of python-ldtp too
<seb128> ok
 * seb128 kicks firefox
<seb128> you stupid browser!
 * didrocks gives seb128 a chromium :)
<seb128> don't close the download dialog and then the main ui while downloading
<seb128> the stupid thing exited while I was downloading a CD iso and didn't resume it on next start but started again
<rickspencer3_> seb128, and don't close the main window and not the download dialog, or you can't open the main window with the unity launcher
<mvo> rickspencer3_: nice! tbh I found the additional xml file to be a bit redundant (ie description can simply be python docstrings and a conversation like in unittest for what to run). but maybe I just looked close enough into it :)
<rickspencer3_> mvo, right
<seb128> do we have a nice tutorial on how to use mago?
<mvo> but seeing the current acitivty is pretty cool
<rickspencer3_> mvo, no, you're correct, it is normal for testing frameworks to use introspection and naming conventions
<rickspencer3_> seb128, yes, it is well documented, and ara is very helpful as well
<mvo> seb128: when I looked into it, found the ones availalbe not that great, but http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mago-contributors/mago/mago/revision/155 is a good source
<mvo> seb128: i.e. just a commit diff, that shows pretty neatly what is going on
<rickspencer3_> mvo, seb128 right, part of the sprint this week is to make it so that the tests *are* great
<seb128> I should try to play with it as well
<rickspencer3_> however, I guess the fact that I am working on one is not a good sign
<rickspencer3_> mvo, I was thinking it would be good if people included a failing test with bug reports
<mvo> the other thing that I found difficult is to figure out the names for the menus/buttons etc
<rickspencer3_> like you could get a failing test that shows a bug in software-center
<seb128> I was going to suggest we should start including tests for bugs we fix
<mvo> rickspencer3_: yeah, that would rock
<seb128> or for sru fixes at least
<rickspencer3_> mvo, ara has created a helper script that generates a list of widget names now
<mvo> aha, that is really helpful!
<rickspencer3_> seb128, mvo, yeah, if bug reports included tests, then you could add the test to the test library and you wouldn't have to worry about regressions again
<seb128> does it mean ideally we would run the tests before doing an upload?
<mvo> sounds like I should give it another spin again :) s-c has a gui test suite, but most of it is done without mago
<rickspencer3_> seb128, or as part of an upload
<rickspencer3_> like upload a package, and if there are mago tests, they get run automatically
<mvo> rickspencer3_: much agreed, s-c runs its  tests on bzr-buildpackage and won't continue if one fails
<seb128> would be nice
<mvo> but having that on a much broader scope would be cool
 * seb128 activates unity again
<rickspencer3_> mvo, maybe someone on the QA team could take a look at porting your s-c tests to mago for you
<mvo> and enabling the community to write them
<seb128> let's see if I manage to keep using it now ;-)
<mvo> seb128: it eats mouse click events!
<rickspencer3_> well, I'm hoping to get over the learning curve today ;)
<seb128> mvo, I had that under compiz without unity ;-)
<mvo> rickspencer3_: well, I should port them myself :)
<mvo> seb128: right, its compiz that is the hungry thing
<mvo> rickspencer3_: but first I need to write a small inspection tool that spits out the xml for me from the docstrings (well, maybe not first, but it would definitely be nice to not have to touch that file as well for the simple cases)
<seb128> mvo, is there a way to do an apt-get update from s-c?
<mvo> no
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> rickspencer3_: is that script you mentioned  for getting the a11y names in the mago bzr tree? or somewhere else?
 * seb128 adds a gnome-panel back
<rickspencer3_> ara can you help out mvo there ^ ?
<mvo> ara: context is that rickspencer3_ mentioned there is a script that scan the app for all the a11y names so that its simpler to know what the buttons are called etc
<rickspencer3_> mvo, she's in the room with me here
<rickspencer3_> I'll let her know when she's done her current discussion ;)
<mvo> haha, ok
<mvo> she must be super busy now
<ara> mvo, hey!
<ara> mvo, so I run a small app using  quickly called magomatic
<ara> http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/magomatic/
<ara> no better docuementation yet
<mvo> ara: sweet
<mvo> ara: thanks!
<ara> but it tries to create the application helper automatically
<mvo> ara: can I upload it into natty?
<mvo> ara: I mean, is it ready for the archive :)
<mvo> ara: sounds super useful to a lot of people
<ara> mvo, I haven't tried to package it yet, but it was created using quickly, so it should work
<mvo> cool
 * mvo hugs ara 
<ara> jibel, do you think magomatic is ready for the archive? ^
<ara> (looking for second opinions) :D
<mvo> that is really helpful as that was my main issue, finding the right names
<pitti> re
<pitti> ugh, what the heck
<pitti> after this morning's upgrade I can't login through gdm any more
<pitti> the same gdm still worked yesterday, and .xsession-errors is rather quiet
<pitti> did anyone else get that, too?
<seb128> I didn't dare dist-upgrading yet
<seb128> didn't want to break the python world
<seb128> pitti, what happens? session close immediatly?
<Sarvatt> dist-upgrade has been broken for 3-4 days here
<pitti> seb128: right
<pitti> seb128: it tries to start, then X crashes
<pitti> seb128: startx does work, though
<seb128> weird
<seb128> does it do the same for any user?
<pitti> it looks a lot like gdm, except that this was working fine until this morning (2.32 I mean)
<pitti> seb128: apparently yes
<pitti> I'll have a deeper look at this
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't dist-upgrade, but just saw same comments by people on the french natty forum
<pitti> I only made a partial upgrade
<pitti> a dist-upgrade wants to remove half of my desktop
<seb128> robert_ancell had the same issue yesterday when he joined
<pitti> ah, the CD build logs are quite helpful, too
<pitti>  hplip : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti>  python-indicate : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti>  python-launchpad-integration : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti>  python-ubuntuone : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti>  python-uno : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti>  ubuntu-sso-client : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<pitti> seems we need to fix those
<pitti> I'll start with indicate and lpi, presumably these are the most sensitive
<seb128> pitti, you will probably not manage to get the indicate one
<seb128> it requires a libdbusmenu
<seb128> it requires a libdbusmenu rebuild
<seb128> but libdbusmenu doesn't build with the current gir
<pitti> right
<seb128> kenvandine, and ted were working on landing the libdbusmenu update yesterday
<seb128> not sure where that went
<pitti> doko already uploaded rebuilds for everything, it seems
<pitti> they just FTBFSed
 * pitti grabs lpi then
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to have a go at ubuntuone?
<seb128> libubuntuone
<pitti> sure, if you have time
<pitti> python-uno is from OO.o
<seb128> I will not touch that one :p
<pitti> I didn't get it to build yet, need to throw more hours at thi
<pitti> s
<pitti> I'll try my best monkey-patching it
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you try to make libubuntuone build on natty?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, working on it
<seb128> the gir build fails
<seb128> thanks
<rodrigo_> oh, a different error? I'm fixing the multiple python versions thing
<rodrigo_> where is the build log?
<seb128> I just tried locally
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> does it build for you?
<seb128> I'm not uptodate, let me upgrade first
<rodrigo_> no, it fails with the python stuff, not on the gir
<seb128> I get a "Namespace is empty" error
 * pitti dist-upgrades; this takes ubuntuone, mutter, and software-center into nirvana, but I guess I can live with that
<seb128> in the UbuntuOne-1.0.gir build
<pitti> ah, I see that a lot (namespace)
<rodrigo_> oh, there was an update to fix the python 2.7 thing
<rodrigo_> ok, trying the build with the latest
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, did you start on ubuntu sso?
<pitti> seb128: not yet; still waiting for dist-upgrade to finish
<pitti> then doing lpi
<seb128> pitti, ok, I'm doing ubuntu-sso-client
<pitti> seb128: but sso is in my queue, unless someone else wants to fix it?
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
<jibel> ara, mvo, sure it's ready for the archive, I have few more features in my pocket, but I'll do that later. ara, can you package it ?
<ara> OK, I'll add to my todo list :)
<mvo> hrm, I keep typing mango
<mvo> I can't help it!
<pitti> mvo: others might keep typing meego :)
<mvo> lol
<seb128> didrocks, do you know if unity got a bug that the launcher should not display tooltips immediatly already?
<mvo> jibel, ara: I created a very simple packaging lp:~mvo/magonize/packaging as the basis for this (mostly boilerplaet, but bzr-buildpackage --native will build it fine)
<mvo> ara: what license do you have in mind for it? its currently public domain
<ara> mvo, GPL should be fine
<didrocks> seb128: there is none
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<pitti> seb128: lpi fixed, too
<seb128> pitti, great
<pitti> tkamppeter: do you have something to upload in hplip? It needs a rebuild for python 2.7
<seb128> didrocks, smspillaz: bug #687960
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687960 in compiz (Ubuntu) "the alt-tab action does nothing until a dialog is clicked sometimes (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687960
<seb128> let me know if you can confirm or not
<rodrigo_> what's Matthias Klose's irc nick?
<seb128> doko
<rodrigo_> ok, so he's not arounf
<rodrigo_> around
<seb128> just not on this channel
<rodrigo_> ah, where can I find him?
<seb128> rodrigo_, #ubuntu-devel
<didrocks> seb128: waow, you're right
<didrocks> seb128: even shift + alt + key doesn't work
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for confirming ;-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, no, I have upgraded HPLIP to 3.10.9 some days ago and there are also no "it stopped working" cries around. Looks like that you should simply do a no-change upload to rebuild it.
<tkamppeter> pitti, do you know whether there is any problem with libxml2 in Natty? See bug 687973.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687973 in foomatic-db-engine (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'foomatic-db-engine' (4.0.5-0ubuntu6) failed to build on natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687973
<tkamppeter> pitti, I can already reproduce it by simply running the compiler command line on the upstream source of foomatic-db-engine.
<dpm> hi pitti, I've been looking at the maverick langpacks to make the announcement for testing. Before I ask you to copy them to -proposed, I've got a question: looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=maverick it seems that not all have been built (e.g. language-pack-as). Is this because the build is still in progress, or because something has happen
<dpm> ed that interrupted it?
<dpm> (or is is just that there wasn't a delta and thus the package did not need to be rebuilt?)
<dpm> pitti, if that's the case ^, may I just ask you to copy the latest language packs in the ppa to maverick-proposed and disable the maverick PPA until we're done with testing?
 * dpm goes for lunch now
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm not aware of a specific libxml problem
<pitti> tkamppeter: doko already gave the reason in the last comment
<pitti> dpm: does it need to happen this week?
<pitti> dpm: kyleN asked me about doing an urgent update for ubuntu-docs zh_CN
<pitti> dpm: it would be great if we could aim for next Wednesday's builds, if possible?
<pitti> dpm: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/+builds shows that nothing is pending to build there
<pitti> dpm: and I don't see any unbuilt source?
<seb128> pitti, did you investigate your gdm issue?
<seb128> pitti, do you plan to do a g-s-d upload? or you just commited the patch to bzr?
<pitti> seb128: the gsd patch is not that urgent, I just didn't want to forget about it
<pitti> seb128: gdm> not yet, will do now
<seb128> pitti, ok, because seems repete and other people have it
<pitti> seb128: have what?
<seb128> pitti, the same issue
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<seb128> pitti, recent comments on bug #654578
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 654578 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Returned to gdm screen after logging in (affects: 9) (dups: 1) (heat: 32)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654578
<seb128> and repete opened a new bug as well
<seb128> pitti, well,  it was just to say that it's not only you
<seb128> in case that's an useful info ;-)
<didrocks> and some people complained on the french forum too
<didrocks> seb128: (being late), thanks for fixing the g-s-d debian/rules with gcc wrong order
<didrocks> I didn't notice you did
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> lol, you're welcome
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> seeing the discussion on #ubuntu-devel I was thinking "hum, still something pending on my list, let's do it :)"
<seb128> didrocks, especially that you didn't add the build-depends I think
<seb128> it's on the ftfbs list lucasn did
<didrocks> seb128: oh really? but I don't remember of a FTBFS, I was maybe lucky
<seb128> gcc-4.4 not found
<seb128> didrocks, 4.4 was probably still on the buildds
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> it built, but they have removed it later it seems :)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks in any case!
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, hello
<seb128> mterry, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, so no pressure by natty installability is broken until python-indicate is rebuilt
<kenvandine> i know!
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> how is the libdbusmenu update going? ;-)
<kenvandine> scary... seems the gdbus port really introduces an issue, we really do need to upload all the indicators at once
<seb128> do they need to all be ported to the new abi?
<seb128> or api rather
<kenvandine> i don't think so
<kenvandine> but i think they will all need a rebuild
<kenvandine> when i installed it yesterday, not even nautilus would start
<kenvandine> i think because indicator-appmenu wasn't working
<seb128> urg
<seb128> did you try to remove appmenu-gtk?
<kenvandine> well, it was working well enough for nautilus to think it needed appmenus
<kenvandine> no, i was trying to rebuild enough bits to make it work
<kenvandine> but gave up late last night and decided to do it all in a VM :)
<kenvandine> got a VM prepared for it now and my laptop usable again
<sabdfl> is anybody else seeing explosive failures to login?
<seb128> sabdfl, pitti said he was about to debug it
<seb128> sabdfl, I've the feeling it's affecting everybody
<seb128> I didn't update yet though since the python transition is in the middle
<sabdfl> phew, thought i was being thpethial
<seb128> sabdfl, you can use startx to start a session meanwhile
<kenvandine> i haven't seen that problem yet, but tedg couldn't login last night
<sabdfl> ok, thanks seb128
<kenvandine> i had to get him up using startx so we could work :)
<seb128> np
<seb128> mterry, is there any chance you could get some of the banshee mir reviews going?
<seb128> I'm sure Laney and jcastro will pay you back in beers at UDS
<pitti> sabdfl: yep, still debugging; for me it started with this morning's dist-upgrades, I already had the new gdm at that time
<mterry> seb128, sure.  I'm dealing with the other rebuilds for libgirepository now, but when I'm done.  Thanks for doing python-gobject for me, and sorry for the delay
<seb128> mterry, no worry
<seb128> mterry, you will need a new epiphany upload btw
<seb128> mterry, we dropped gir-repository from the archive
<seb128> you need to clean the build-depends on gir-repository-dev
<mterry> seb128, OK
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any chance I could abuse your lucid owning again? ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #683076
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 683076 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin can no longer log in to ICQ (affects: 26) (heat: 480)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683076
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, sure
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks a lot!
<dpm> pitti, ok, back. re: the maverick langpack updates, would it not be possible to do both? I.e the update this week as planned and a selective update for zh_CN next week?
<dpm> We've been delaying this update several times, a community member has been working hard to get the language pack schedule in shape and I explained on the translators list that we are about to do a call for testing for new langpacks.
<pitti> dpm: would be possible, yes
<dpm> I'm just worried that people are starting to get put off by the delays.
<dpm> so that would perhaps help
<pitti> dpm: I just wondered why the current maverick ones in the PPA are already two weeks old
<pitti> dpm: ah, seems we got a new delta export on Sunday
<dpm> pitti, yes
<pitti> hm, why didn't the cron job fire yesterday then
<dpm> pitti, which cron job, the one for the LP exports or the one for the builds?
<pitti> for the builds
<pitti> hm, the logs are current
<dpm> pitti, perhaps because there wasn't an export?
<pitti> hm, and they look good
<pitti> Delta language pack: 2010-12-05 04:08:57 CET download icon
<dpm> pitti, I mean yesterday there wasn't an export
<dpm> err tuesday, I meant
<pitti> dpm: oh, it seems I looked wrong
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=maverick -> that does have the 1204 langpacks
<pitti> just not for some languages, which presumably just didn't get any updates since 1123
<pitti> dpm: so, want me to copy the lot to -proposed?
<dpm> pitti, they look good to me, the only thing that confused me as I said earlier was that
<cyphermox> good morning!
<dpm> pitti, yes please, if you could copy them to maverick-proposed, that'd be great
<dpm> then I'll send the call for testing
<pitti> dpm: note that it'll take some time until they get built
<pitti> buildds are pretty busy right now
<pitti> dpm: ok, copying in progress
<dpm> pitti, ok, no worries. Do you have a rough estimate on how long (i.e. hours, days...)?
<dpm> pitti, awesome, thanks!
<pitti> dpm: I hope ~ 24 hours or less
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
<pitti> oh, it's not actually that bad, they caught up well
<pitti> (except powerpc)
<dpm> pitti, ok, great.
<pitti> dpm: so, I think about 10 hours
<dpm> pitti, cool. Do I need to do anything else re: the zh_CN update next week? Otherwise I'll just give a heads up to kyleN that we're releasing langpacks this week as well
<pitti> dpm: maybe, but if we need anything, we'll contact you
<dpm> ok, sounds good
<seb128> hey cyphermox
<seb128> how are you?
<cyphermox> pretty good. yesterday was quite useful, I had been meaning to work on a /etc/hosts updates patch for NM for a little while and this time I was actually able to make it work
<cyphermox> seb128, and you?
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, how busy are you?
<cyphermox> not overly
<cyphermox> seb128, can I help you out with something?
<seb128> cyphermox, could you try to get bug  #403534 to resolution?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 403534 in checkbox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Should use GtkBuilder rather than libglade (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 7)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403534
<seb128> cyphermox, btw should bug #403547 be closed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 403547 in synaptic (Ubuntu) "Should use GtkBuilder rather than libglade (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403547
<cyphermox> seb128, I'll dou
<cyphermox> gah
<seb128> thanks
<cyphermox> i'll double check synaptic, unless mvo has already merged the gtkbuilder changes?
<seb128> if someone is wanting to update xchat-gnome to the current git that would be nice
<seb128> is there any take for the task?
<seb128> it would fix the ftbfs, close some open bugs and drop the libgnome use
<cyphermox> as for checkbox, there's a branch done and ready for gtkbuilder, it's just not been reviewed so much by cr3 yet, but as soon as he comes in i'll ask him
<cyphermox> seb128, I can do that too
<seb128> cyphermox, I saw mvo uploaded a synaptic using gtkbuilder
<seb128> cyphermox, ok great, thanks!
<cyphermox> then I'll close the bug :)
<seb128> great work on it ;-)
<cyphermox> thx
<cyphermox> next is gtk3, already started too :)
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> hum :/ bzr: ERROR: Tree transform is malformed [('duplicate id', 'new-74', 'new-1')]
<seb128> well first maybe try to make it stop filling .xsession-error
<cyphermox> I'll just finish the unity manpage first :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> can't solve the conflicting between nux and the packaging branchâ¦
<seb128> it = nm-applet
<cyphermox> seb128, I already have that change locally for nm-applet, I was testing it before upload :)
<seb128> didrocks, you need james_w I guess
<james_w> didrocks, could you try with lp:bzr-builddeb?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah :/ I have tons of conflicts in the branch since last release
<didrocks> james_w: ok, can have a try
<james_w> thanks
<didrocks> james_w: what should I launch, still bzr resolve?
<james_w> didrocks, what command were you running? merge-upstream?
<didrocks> james_w: not for that one, I'm just cherry-picking commits and have a tons of conflicts
<didrocks> james_w: not really sure why btw
<james_w> didrocks, oh, trying lp:bzr-builddeb probably won't help then
<didrocks> right, that was my guess :)
<james_w> didrocks, could you file a bug please? I'm in the middle of something right now, otherwise I would help you debug
<didrocks> so, as I have more than 50 files conflicting, I was just thinking about bzr resolve --take-others
<james_w> didrocks, asking in #bzr might get you unblocked
<didrocks> james_w: ok, will try, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, (re: our previous conversation on #ubuntu-devel) so, you said I should create the build trees, but every package I see they only have a 'mkdir build-$* && cd build-$* && configure'
<pitti> seb128: hah, got it!
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<seb128> what is it?
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, do I need to copy the sources over to each build tree?
<pitti> rodrigo_: no; just call ../configure in the build tree
<pitti> seb128: I purged libcanberra-gtk{,3}-module and now it works again
<pitti> of course that was the one in my list which I suspected least -- I almost dropped it up front :)
<seb128> weird
 * pitti checks http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60333072/libcanberra_0.26-0ubuntu2_0.26-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<pitti> +debian/52libcanberra-gtk-module_add-to-gtk-modules /etc/X11/Xsession.d/52libcanberra-gtk3-module_add-to-gtk-modules
<pitti> that looks like the only significant diff to me
<pitti> debugging further, offline again
<mvo> cyphermox, seb128: yep, synaptic is uploaded \o/
<seb128> pitti, weird
<pitti> seb128: perhaps it tries to run both startup sounds now, for gtk2 and 3?
<seb128> well, even if that's the case why would the session crash?
<seb128> or gdm
<pitti> gdm itself doesn't really "crash"
<pitti> it starts the session, but it ends immediately
<seb128> well, why does the session end?
<pitti> oh, wait, hang on
<pitti> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/52libcanberra-gtk3-module_add-to-gtk-modules
<cyphermox> mvo, sweet, I'll get back to you about gtk3 port soonish :)
<pitti> why is that a directory?
<pitti> that might upset Xsession
<seb128> seems a bug
<pitti> checking
<pitti> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/52libcanberra-gtk3-module_add-to-gtk-modules/52libcanberra-gtk-module_add-to-gtk-modules
<pitti> mterry: ^ I suppose that was meant to be something like 52libcanberra-gtk-module_add-to-gtk3-modules, without the extra dir?
<mterry> pitti, hrm, yeah probably.  It came from Debian, I didn't vet that change carefully.  I'll fix
<pitti> confirmed, if I move away the directory, it works
<mvo> cyphermox: cool
<pitti> mterry: confirmed; if I move it to be a file, it works
<pitti> mterry: oh, you want to? ok, thanks; can you please add a preinst snippet to rm -r that faulty dir when upgrading from 0.26-1ubuntu1?
<mterry> pitti, OK
<seb128> mterry, you should be able to upload
<pitti> ugh, that was a nice debugging exercise
<seb128> cjwatson added exception for the 2 from yesterday
<seb128> pitti, thanks for doing it
<seb128> still seems we have a gdm bugs
<seb128> the xsession should not bail out on Xsession.d issues
<pitti> correct
<pitti> I'll add a gdm task
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, can you run easily the apport tests locally?
<seb128> pitti, having the retracers down is going to be an issue for unity
<pitti> seb128: I was going to look at bug 687440 anyway, so while I"m at it..
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687440 in gdm (Ubuntu) "[Natty] gdm login-screen does not work with "enter" (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687440
<seb128> not sure where to investigate, the dc ones stop on the "starting a webbrowser for getting a token"
<seb128> not sure if the auth file is just outdated
<seb128> or if there is an apport bug that makes apport-retrace --auth= not work
<pitti> seb128: which tests?
<pitti> seb128: you can run apport-retrace locally, sure
<pitti> it's nothing magic
<pitti> it'll ask you for LP authentication the usual way
<seb128> pitti, well the point is that I gave it a --auth=lpauth
<seb128> where lpauth in the token on ronne
<pitti> seb128: just do that, it should create a new file for you
<seb128> pitti, well, I've the feeling we might just need to renew the token
<seb128> but I don't have the password for the apport account...
<seb128> I don't really want to put my token on ronne ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I will do a retracing locally to see how it goes
<pitti> seb128: oh, you mean you can't use your own because you don't have a public bug with a core dump?
<pitti> seb128: shouldn't matter
<pitti> seb128: just take any bug
<seb128> pitti, I rather mean "if we need to update the retracer one I don't have the login password to do it"
<pitti> seb128: if it can login and fetch the bug details, and complain about not finding a core dump, then I guess you are way past the point where it hangs in the DC?
<pitti> seb128: ah, sure; I can update the auth file
<pitti> seb128: but I seriously doubt that this is the case
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: all my local LP auth files keep working fine
<seb128> ok
<seb128> well I did a manual retracing in the dc yesterday
<seb128> the usually way
<pitti> seb128: how far does it get?
<seb128> ie apport-retrace --auth=file <number> -o
<seb128> pitti, it displays the "press enter once logged in the webbrowser" text
<seb128> and never move from it since it waits for input
<pitti> o_O
<pitti> so it's not a firewall issue
<pitti> seb128: oooh
<pitti> seb128: I know
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it was the broken python-launchpadlib 1.8.0
<seb128> you are made of awesome, you know?
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: upgade to my 1.8.0+really.1.6.5
<pitti> (downgrade)
<pitti> seb128: bug 686690
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 686690 in launchpadlib "1.8.0 breaks login_with() API compat with existing credentials files, and forces keyrings (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686690
<pitti> (that made me pull my hair out)
<seb128> pitti, oh, nice catch
<pitti> seb128: sorry, I should have thought about that right away
<seb128> I will try that now, thanks!
<seb128> which copy needs to be updated?
<pitti> instead of letting you waste time on it; I thought it would hang on the socket again
<seb128> the one in the retracers?
<pitti> seb128: in the fakechroots, yets
<pitti> yes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm on it
<seb128> thanks!
<pitti> seb128: ideally, if we restart them now, they should just auto-upgrade
<seb128> right, I will try that first
<seb128> then go in manual mode next if needed ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<pitti>  . o O { this entire week feels like "stuff breaking underneath you all over" }
<pitti> python, gdm, OO.o, launchpadlib..
<seb128> pitti, Setting up python-launchpadlib (1.8.0-1) ...
<seb128> in the retracer log currently
<pitti> :-(
<seb128> so yes, they picked the buggy version
<pitti> that's the broken one
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I've just restarted them
<pitti> ah, ok
<seb128> let's see if they upgrade
<pitti> python-launchpadlib | 1.8.0.is.1.6.2-0ubuntu1 |         natty | source, all
<pitti> it should be available
<scott-work> hi, i'm scott lavender, the project lead for ubuntu studio, can someone help me identify how to set gnome2 as the default session instead of unity for the ubuntu studio images?
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<seb128> I guess the trick is to make gnome-classic.desktop the default
<seb128> you might want to check what xubuntu does to change the gdm default session
<scott-work> thanks seb128
<rodrigo_> aha, found the issue in libu1 package!!
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, what was it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, I get another error, but the previous issue was that it was using the same build dir for the main target and for the different python version builds
<rodrigo_> so, I changed rules to use a separate build dir for the main build
<rodrigo_> now I get another error though
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<seb128> style python error?
<rodrigo_> but at least it seems to build ok
<rodrigo_> no, hold on, I'll paste it
<rodrigo_> no, now it works ok, I had forgotten to use the separate build dir in install: rule
<rodrigo_> so, phew, it took a long time to fix this, but at least it is now, it seems!! :)
 * rodrigo_ dances
<hallyn_> i'm on the natty desktop on my netbook - is there any recommended way right now to get rid of the window borders?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, now I remember about your git issues with libu1, I didn't see them at all, so maybe I'm missing an update to newest g-i?
 * rodrigo_ apt-get update
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's likely my box which is not uptodate
<seb128> if you have it locally feel free to upload
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, was it complaining about --identifier-prefix?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> ok, then indeed, you need to update
<rodrigo_> hmm, although it should have detected the old g-i
<seb128> rodrigo_, well I'm not on an old version
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> I've the current one from before yesterday's rebuild
<seb128> but some of the .gir might be outated
<seb128> well just upload we will see if it builds on the buildds
<seb128> pitti, retracers are working \o/
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, uploaded
<rodrigo_> seb128, I see I don't have the latest g-i, but:
<rodrigo_>  gobject-introspection : Depends: libgirepository-1.0-1 (= 0.9.12+git20101124-0ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
<seb128> wait for mterry's rebuilds
<rodrigo_> ok
<cyphermox> ls
<pitti> seb128: \o/
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<seb128> "import os, apport.packaging, apport.hookutils"
<seb128> pitti, ^ you said that was not required?
<pitti> seb128: none of those are used
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> well I usually just put them so they are there when needed
<pitti> seb128: don't worry, they don't hurt
<seb128> ok, hum, apport is unhappy, I can really test my update now
<seb128> bug #686585
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 686585 in apport (Ubuntu) "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte because of non unicode UnreportableReason (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686585
<seb128> didrocks, get the same issue than you had ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ahah \o/
<mterry> rodrigo_, my g-i changes have intersected the general python2.7 rebuilds and things are complicated now.  Sorry
<rodrigo_> mterry, no problem, just wanted to check if it breaks the build for a package
<rodrigo_> so it can wait :)
<pitti> seb128, mterry: FYI, I fixed gdm to not fall apart on Xsession.d/ dirs
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<mterry> pitti, awesome!
<bcurtiswx>  rodrigo_, you are constantly using the GNOME 3 PPA.. right ?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, yes
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, do you get a segfault when trying to double click "background" in gnome-control-center ?
<rodrigo_> hmm, let me try
<rodrigo_> hmm, g-c-c segfaults now, does not even show the window
<bcurtiswx> yes, me too
<rodrigo_> hmm, seems gtk's fault
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, what about going to Places--> Home Folder  then double clicking the Desktop icon ?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, nautilus also crashes for me now, it needs an upstream change which hasn't been released yet
<rodrigo_> does it crash also for you?
<rodrigo_> hmm, no more g-c-c crashes after a gtk3 update
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, thats great news to my ears.  I think this GTK bug is also the cause of why empathy windows don't open with 2.91.3
<rodrigo_> but still, weird warnings, seems it needs a rebuild
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, 2.91.7 ?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, which GTK bug?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, 2.91.6
<bcurtiswx> the g-c-c bug sorry
<seb128> pitti, how do I tell apport that a .crash has been handled already?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, (gnome-control-center:11516): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: specified class size for type `CcPanel' is smaller than the parent type's `GtkBin' class size
<pitti> seb128: remove the needs-*-retrace tag
<rodrigo_> that's what I get, so it indeed looks like it needs a rebuild
<seb128> pitti, no, I mean locally, I want it to make the "collecting infos" again
<rodrigo_> is that the same for empathy?
<pitti> seb128: ubuntu-bug /var/crash/foo.crash should do it
<seb128> pitti, no, it did it once, now it opens the summary immediatly
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/541512/
<seb128> pitti, I want to test changes to the hook
<pitti> seb128: ah, right, because it sees that it's already got a stack trace
<seb128> pitti, but it seems to not be used
<pitti> seb128: I'd just do ubuntu-bug package
<pitti> seb128: that'll run the hooks
<seb128> well the hook is smart with the Stracktrace content
<pitti> seb128: and then check in the "details" expander
<pitti> ah
<bcurtiswx> empathy doesn't even error out.. its the same behavior as the nautilus crash.. i double click a contact and it just quickly removes and replaces the emapthy contact list.
<seb128> so I need to test on a crash
<pitti> seb128: try editing the .crash file and drop the Stacktrace field
<pitti> seb128: hang on, checking code
<seb128> hum, that's the one I want to give to my hook
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, hmm
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: but it'll regenerate it through gdm
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, that menu_proxy_module_load is from dbusmenu, right?
<seb128> pitti, gdb?
<pitti> seb128: ah - drop the "Dependencies" field -- that's the one it's checking for
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, i don't know
<pitti> seb128: sorry, autofingers (debugging gdm now..)
<mvo> pitti: silly question, will the WI tracker deal with something like "[isd] (server) define datamodel for "this review was helpful" (even if not exposed in the UI/API initially): DONE and exposed (rnrclient has a report_abuse() method)." or does the DONE has to be the last word?
<pitti> mvo: that looks broken
<pitti> it needs to be : (todo|done|postponed|blocked)$
<pitti> not ":done and some other gibberish"
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, if it helps to test yourself http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/empathy/2.91/empathy-2.91.3.tar.gz and the ./autogen.sh with make & make install
<rodrigo_> ok
<mvo> thanks pitti
<mvo> pitti: fixed i tnow
<pitti> thanks mvo
<seb128> didrocks, I've a tweak to the unity apport hook
<seb128> should I just commit?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, just commit
<scott-work_> didrocks: would you be able to point me at the package that it may be possibel to set the gnome session as default rather than unity?  this is for ubuntu studio
<didrocks> scott-work_: you should change to the ubuntu desktop classic session by default
<didrocks> scott-work_: there is a script in /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session
<didrocks> scott-work_: look at what I've done in ubuntu-netbook-default-settings
<scott-work_> didrocks:  outstanding!  i will definitely look at that, thank you :)
<didrocks> scott-work_: you're welcome :)
<scott-work_> didrocks: is this the correct code?   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/natty/files
<didrocks> scott-work_: it's only for armel now contrary to maverick one, but yeah, look at postinst
<scott-work_> didrocks: okay, i think i found the part (i'm not really a programmer), thanks again :)
<didrocks> yw :)
<pitti> need to run out now, have a nice evening everyone!
<cyphermox> bye pitti
<bcurtiswx> cya pitti
<seb128> bye pitti
<kenvandine> bye pitti
<kenvandine> seb128, all the indicators need a rebuild for dbusmenu, but good news is it seems painless
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> anyone know what broke gtk apps with a sidebar?
<seb128> nothing?
<seb128> wfm
<kenvandine> i have no treeview in xchat-gnome
<kenvandine> or evolution
<kenvandine> not sure why yet... will debug after i get this stuff uploaded
<seb128> ok
<scott-work_> didrocks: i'm sorry to keep bothering you but can you help me understand exactly what you did for setting the default session ?
<scott-work_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
<didrocks> scott-work_: I can tomorrow, I'm doing a unity release right now
<scott-work_> didrocks: certainly, thank you
<didrocks> scott-work_: just ping me tomorrow :) sorry for not being available right now
<seb128> cyphermox, http://git.gnome.org/browse/evolution/commit/?id=61999b493fc4266300eab2907909867e73e4cc1e
<kenvandine> ugh... i need ted
<seb128> cyphermox, do you think you could backport that and check the recent evo bugs in launchpad and prepare an update today or tomorrow?
<kenvandine> seb128, the treeview problem is appmenu related somehow
<seb128> cyphermox, there is at least one bug about the face plugin which got dropped in the update but not in the description
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm off tomorrow but you can probably get didrocks to upload for you if you need sponsoring
<seb128> kenvandine, hum ok
<seb128> kenvandine, do you have an update of that in some way?
<kenvandine> just rebuilt with newer dbusmenu
<kenvandine> if i unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY it works fine
<kenvandine> but with it i get no sidebar in xchat-gnome or evo
<kenvandine> and...
<kenvandine> if i hit F9 to show the sidebar, it flickers...
<kenvandine> quickly makes room for it and it goes away
<kenvandine> just don't know how that could be related
<didrocks> sure, tomorrow is fine
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, weird
<didrocks> I want also to upload evo for switching to express mode
<didrocks> so, will be the perfect timing :)
<seb128> we need an evo upload for the python transition
<seb128> so in any case please one of you backport that one commit and upload tomorrow ;-)
<didrocks> can do it if cyphermox just planned to backport that commit
<didrocks> if nothing more involved
<didrocks> oh the mailto:
<seb128> time for sport
<seb128> see you later
<cyphermox> seb128, didrocks, I'll look at at shortly
<kenvandine> cyphermox, is there any known problem where nm-applet won't control my network?
<cyphermox> kenvandine, known, kind of. I've seen it stop responding to clicks in the menu, I have no idea why though :(
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> mine seems to respond
<didrocks> cyphermox: if it's only backport this commit, I have other evolution changes pending so I can do it :)
<kenvandine> but it says networking is disabled
<kenvandine> and it won't let me enable it
<cyphermox> didrocks, trying to figure it out now.. I guess it's just a backport
<cyphermox> kenvandine, then it's different
<kenvandine> i can setup my network from the cli
<didrocks> cyphermox: well, don't bother, it's just wget the patch + build
<cyphermox> that should have been fixed... but maybe check /var/lib/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.state
<didrocks> cyphermox: and I have other stuff to upload as well :)
<kenvandine> ah... says it is disabled
<cyphermox> didrocks, have you seen the three evo / e-d-s bugs from a few weeks ago ?
<didrocks> cyphermox: for maverick or natty?
<cyphermox> didrocks, mav
<kenvandine> perhaps it got  confused when my indicator stack was completely hosed :)
<cyphermox> they were srus about proxy for images
<didrocks> cyphermox: completely went of my head, can you just add a ping on the merge requests?
<cyphermox> huh, they weren't merge requests, I think it was debdiffs. not sure why I did it that way though
<cyphermox> but yeah, I'll take another look
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, thanks :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so, just ping me/refactor the maverick sru
<cyphermox> didrocks, ah, I remember, there was no maverick branch
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'll deal next evo upload for adding things with my wi
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: so just email me :)
<cyphermox> okie dokie :)
<didrocks> thanks a bunch!
<cyphermox> kenvandine, that shouldn't happen though, unless maybe if hibernate/suspend was to fail badly (because even that should be fixed by now)
<cyphermox> brb, switching to xchat-gnome :)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/541576/
<kenvandine> any ideas?
<cyphermox> err, sorry, where should I look?  ^.^
<cyphermox> I'm hungry so I can't find what's wrong ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> well it is cycling
<kenvandine> i get that over and over again
<kenvandine> it was fine this morning :)
<cyphermox> ah, right, I see it now
<cyphermox> I didn't upload any changes since a few weeks ago :)
<kenvandine> setting up the interface with ifconfig works
<kenvandine> and it makes NM stop cycling like that
<kenvandine> but i never get access to the wireless device with it
<kenvandine> and the only script in /etc/network/if-up.d that has an "exit 1" in it is wpasupplicant
<cyphermox> do you have stuff in /etc/network/interfaces?
<cyphermox> nah, 01ifupdown has nothing to do with it :)
<kenvandine> auto lo
<kenvandine> iface lo inet loopback
<kenvandine> ok, that was the only error looking thing i had
<cyphermox> maybe dbus-monitor and check if you get dbus sleep messages sent to NM
<kenvandine> ok
<cyphermox> unless it was triggered when you changed /var/lib/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.state, if you did
<cyphermox> brb, I'm starving, must get food now. I'll be back in ten
<kenvandine> whoops... been disconnected
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ok... so should i look for org.freedesktop.NetworkManager ?
<kenvandine> only occurances in NetworkManager in the output is for org.freedesktop.Notifications
<kenvandine>  nothing talking to org.freedesktop.NetworkManager at all
<kenvandine> cyphermox, sorry... did you get that? xchat-gnome doesn't handle the network changing without NM very well :)
<cyphermox> kenvandine, yeah I go it..
<cyphermox> not sure what it could be otherwise. does this keep going across reboots?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> several reboots now
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> i am wondering if it is appindicator/dbusmenu related
<kenvandine> clicking on those menus, should make it call out the nm_dispatcher over dbus right?
<kenvandine> i thought clicking those menus was triggering the service to loop over and over
<kenvandine> but maybe that is happening independently
<kenvandine> cyphermox, i am running newly built appindicator and dbusmenu
<kenvandine> which broke ABI
<kenvandine> i am rebuilding nm-applet now with the rebuilt appindicator
<cyphermox> ah, maybe there's something waiting to break in my patch ^.^
<cyphermox> what are the ABI/API changes?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, should the service be listening on org.freedesktop.NetworkManager?
<kenvandine> and should it be service activatable
<cyphermox> usually yes
<cyphermox> well, NM should be listening
<kenvandine> so the service is running, and d-feet doesn't see that inteface name
<cyphermox> ah
<kenvandine> and if i stop network-manager
<kenvandine> and run nm-applet
<kenvandine> it complains about not being able to connect to org.freedesktop.NetworkManager
<cyphermox> right
<kenvandine> but if i start network-manager again, it doesn't complain
<kenvandine> but d-feet still doesn't see it
<cyphermox> maybe that's just the dbus rules
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> duh
<kenvandine> system bus
<cyphermox> yep
<kenvandine> explains why d-feet can't find it :)
<kenvandine> i just dunno... weird
<cyphermox> oh good, I was starting to be scared ;)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ok... monitoring the system bus i see the events from the indicator
<kenvandine> so i feel better about the appindicator now :)
<kenvandine> it gets sets it to true
<kenvandine> then immediately to false ago
<kenvandine> again
<kenvandine> wtf
<cyphermox> after rebuilding it?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i assume it did before too
<kenvandine> i was just monitoring the wrong bus
<cyphermox> there must be something with how it rewrites the menus. can you see if it happens right after a dbusmenu signal with the menu to add, and about every 5 seconds?
<cyphermox> what was changed in appindicator? could a signal on indicator click have been added? 'cause then I could rip out this fugly kludge and also get the memory leaks under control ;)
<kenvandine> your using the C library right?
<kenvandine> Fixing the Watcher Interface
<kenvandine> and
<kenvandine> A race fix on the dbus name (LP: #526499)
<kenvandine> bug 526499
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 526499 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Application Indicator users launched at start-up skip the applet and fall back instead (affects: 8) (dups: 4) (heat: 64)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526499
<kenvandine> that is all that is in the changelog from upstream
<cyphermox> ah :/
<micahg> mterry: did you use dch -R for the rebuild versions?
<mterry> micahg, no, didn't know that flag.  neat
<micahg> mterry: yep, generally the ubuntu version is just incremented for rebuilds and dch -R should just DTRT
 * mterry notes that it does the right thing for Ubuntu
<mterry> So many magic switches!
<micahg> mterry: yeah, I was happy when I found that one
<cyphermox> kenvandine, you use xchat-gnome right, do you get a crash if in preferences you turn on showing the user list in the main window?
<didrocks> pitti: if you are there tomorrow before me, can you new nux-tools and unity-common, please (2 binary packages from nux and unity)?
<didrocks> time for sport :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow
<cyphermox> kenvandine, is your new libappindicator and dbusmenu available in a ppa?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, they are in natty now!
<kenvandine> appindicator was getting built last i looked
<kenvandine> cyphermox, i think i have a lead
<kenvandine> cyphermox, in making dbusmenu build without gtk deprecations, the check item stuff changed a bit
<kenvandine> the menus are getting toggle events
<kenvandine> so when you click it, it almost immediately gets the next toggle
<kenvandine> so it is toggling on and off
 * kenvandine wonders where tedg is!
 * bcurtiswx teleports tedg onto his desk chair
<cyphermox> kenvandine, yeah, figured it would be something like that, every 5 seconds when the menu gets re-built
<kenvandine> that was my initial thought
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> it isn't happening then
<cyphermox> oh, just checking is broken
<kenvandine> it is happening immediately
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i added some debug statements
<cyphermox> anyway, if you have a change in mind, let me know... I'll wait to apply this to the upload I want to do RFN ;D
<kenvandine> and it gets state TRUE then immediately state FALSE
<cyphermox> :(
<kenvandine> i guess nothing else using appindicators is using check items
<bcurtiswx> should they?
<kenvandine> nah
<kenvandine> only if they need them
<kenvandine> just not seeing a problem anywhere else
<cyphermox> right... and nm-applet is the only one, or one of the very few, redrawing the menu
<kenvandine> oh... appmenu is broken for the same reason
<kenvandine> damn!
<kenvandine> it is a dbusmenu bug
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> tedg, so dbusmenu has a nasty bug
<kenvandine> check items don't work
<tedg> kenvandine, :(
<tedg> kenvandine, Really?  Hmm, that's odd.
<tedg> kenvandine, 0.3.90 or 0.3.91 ?
<kenvandine> they aren't drawing and they are toggling twice
<kenvandine> 0.3.90
<kenvandine> breaks nm-applet and appmenu
<tedg> Hmm, that's odd.  Not really that much changed in 0.3.90.
<kenvandine> for example, in xchat-gnome and evolution... anything that has a check item in the menu gets unchecked
<kenvandine> so the tree view in xchat-gnome gets hidden
<kenvandine> and you can
<kenvandine> t get it back
<kenvandine> all of mterry's changes
<kenvandine> for building with gtk deprecated
<kenvandine> genericmenuitem.c
<kenvandine> although i don't see anything in the diff that should cause this
<kenvandine> i added some debugging in nm-applet
<kenvandine> and it gets the toggle event when you click it
<kenvandine> and it gets a second toggle immediately
<tedg> Hmm, okay.  I'll look.  Good to know it happened before the "big change" though.
<tedg> Should make less variables.
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> but this has built in natty now
<kenvandine> :)
<cyphermox> hrm... tedg or kenvandine; looking at setup_dbusmenu in indicator-application. shouldn't the new dbusmenu_menuitem get freed at some point before being re-created (through calling setup_dbusmenu again in _set_menu or client_menu_changed ?
<cyphermox> I may well be misunderstanding things though, I just started looking at the code
<kenvandine> i really don't know that code either
<kenvandine> the problem must be in dbusmenu though, not appindicator
<cyphermox> kenvandine, looking at something else ;)
<kenvandine> indicator-appmenu is affected too
<kenvandine> ah
<cyphermox> kenvandine, I'm trying to understand how things get done so I can figure out why nm-applet leaks so much
<tedg> cyphermox, I don't have time to look right now, but it seems possible.  Try it, see if it breaks :)
<cyphermox> ok, I will :)
 * cyphermox likes to see things go boom ;)
<tedg> kenvandine, So wait, you've got two versions of libdbusmenu-glib then?  libdbusmenu-glib1 and libdbusmenu-glib2.
<tedg> kenvandine, Because things haven't rebuilt all against the new version, right?
<kenvandine> probably
<kenvandine> should we make them break?
<tedg> Well, I don't know that we need that.
<tedg> But just since it is an ABI change I want to be sure people aren't linking with the one they didn't build with.
<tedg> Otherwise the fields will be all off.
<kenvandine> i've rebuilt everything against 0.3.90
<tedg> Ah, okay.
<tedg> Then you should be able to remove libdbusmenu-glib1, right?
<kenvandine> ugh... removing libdbusmenu-glib1 wants to remove unity
<kenvandine> but i rebuilt unity... wonder why it linked
<kenvandine> oh, well i rebuilt it for a different reason
<kenvandine> i was only worried about things that linked against libdbusmenu-gtk1
<kenvandine> tedg, so i know appindicator, appmenu and nm-applet aren't linked with libdbusmenu-glib1
<kenvandine> and they all suffer from this problem
<kenvandine> do you think just having it installed is a problem?
<tedg> I don't think so... we'll see.  The test suite is failing this as well... so it needs to be fixed regardless.
<tedg> Okay, one is because of the set_active function will signal :-/
<tedg> Probably part of the whole issue.
<kenvandine> oh!
<kenvandine> mterry, around?
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah.  was watching a bit of your conversation
<mterry> kenvandine, did I break something?
<kenvandine> unrelated :)
<kenvandine> got another MIR related to indicator-datetime... and it is kind of urgent... gonna block getting the whole indicator stack rebuild for this dbusmenu change
<mterry> kenvandine, ok, can look
<kenvandine> for ofono
<kenvandine> filing the bug now
<mterry> kenvandine, ah right
<kenvandine> i just reviewed the package
<kenvandine> sorry i missed it, i thought we did the MIR for this last cycle :/
<kenvandine> turns out we differed it :)
<cyphermox> yeah...
<cyphermox> I was about to start writing the mir bug but I don't know ofono so much
<kenvandine> cyphermox, i see you have a branch waiting for upload
<cyphermox> xchat-gnome?
<cyphermox> or do you mean ofono?
<kenvandine> ofono
<kenvandine> mterry, bug 688286
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 688286 in ofono (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ofono (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688286
 * mterry goes to work
<cyphermox> kenvandine, yeah, micahg was going to look again tonight
<kenvandine> cool, not going to try to do that before the MIR
<kenvandine> mterry, thx!
<cyphermox> ok, there is one thing missing from it I'll commit now anyway
<kenvandine> cyphermox, cool, we need it in main for geoclue, which is needed for indicator-datetime... which has become more urgent because of deps getting rebuilt
<cyphermox> kenvandine, alright :)
<kenvandine> tedg, i have rules out libdbusmenu-glib1
<robert_ancell> kklimonda, awesome work on the gtkmm stuff btw!
<kklimonda> robert_ancell: thanks :)
<robert_ancell> kklimonda, are all the packages being tracked here: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html?
<robert_ancell> kklimonda, also, do you plan on updating the GNOME3 versions in the GNOME3 PPA?
<kklimonda> robert_ancell: yes, I plan to work on 3.0
<kklimonda> robert_ancell: atkmm is missing from this page
<robert_ancell> awesome
<kklimonda> wow, unity in natty has some serios mem leaks :/
<kklimonda> serious even
<robert_ancell> :/
<robert_ancell> kklimonda, I've updated versions to track atkmm now, thanks
<tedg> kenvandine, Could you try lp:~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Natty X doesn't seem to work in qemu at the moment, know anything about that?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I'm not aware of anything specifically which might break it, and I haven't checked recently.  I'm also not aware of any open bugs to that effect.
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell: are you sure it's X? you see the splash progress before it stops?
<kenvandine> tedg, sure
<robert_ancell> Sarvatt, I see the splash screen, but in a weird low colour mode (also happing on my main natty box).  I can disable gdm and startup fine to a text login.  If I run X manually, the qemu window disappears and a graphical one doesn't appear
<RAOF> Got any logs out?
<robert_ancell> I haven't been able to work out what the IP address of my qemu instance is/how I get a ssh port to it.  Do you guys know?
<kenvandine> tedg, building now
<Sarvatt> qemu actually dies on your host machine?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I always do the reverse; ssh out of my VM.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, that's the issue, I have no quemu window when it's running, so I can't do anything except Ctrl+C!
<RAOF> But can't you load up X in the VM, kill it, then grab the saved log?
<RAOF> Writeback permitting?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I'll have a look...
<kenvandine> tedg, that fixed it
 * kenvandine uploads :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, no errors in the log
<tedg> kenvandine, Woot!
<kenvandine> tedg, yeah, that seems to work well
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Of course not.  That would be entirely too useful!
<kenvandine> fixes xchat-gnome, evo and indicator-appmenu too
 * kenvandine takes a lunch break, finally!
<kenvandine> mterry, any red flags with ofono?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Maybe it really is a qemu bug? :/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, or kernel?
<robert_ancell> qemu seems very silent on the matter
<RAOF> Possible I guess.  qemu's trying to load vesa, or cirrus?
<RAOF> Could you pastebin the log you got out?  Maybe there's something non-obvious wrong?
<Sarvatt> could try with starting qemu with -vga vmware (I'd recommend that regardless)
<RAOF> Have I mentioned before that btrfs deals really, really badly with write-contention? :(
<robert_ancell> RAOF, cirrus
<robert_ancell> Sarvatt, works, awesome!
<Sarvatt> now hopefully you can check out your old logs, I'd *really* recommend using -vga vmware always because it's much better if you're doing anything in X in there
<robert_ancell> Sarvatt, do you know why they don't default to that then?
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/541672/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Sarvatt ^^ X log
<robert_ancell> The other nice thing is at some point the qemu window wasn't the correct size, and X would be fuzzy.  It's very hard to manually resize it to 800x600 exactly :)
<robert_ancell> But that doesn't seem to occur with the VGA driver
<Sarvatt> it wouldn't be so great in a really old release and dont really need it in a server image, cirrus being limited to like 1024x768 really sucks though :)
<Sarvatt> nothing in there, go figure
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell: is it possible the qemu window just disappears? i've been having that problem with wine for the past few days in natty
<Sarvatt> sometimes I can move my panel aside and see a tiny corner of the window up top
<robert_ancell> It used to be off the top of the screen, and I had to move it.  But it doesn't show in the window list, so it really seemed to have never opened
<Sarvatt> but other times it just disappears and isnt on the window list but its still running
<robert_ancell> is there a tool to list open windows?
<RAOF> Sarvatt: It hasn't just been moved entirely off the visible workspace?
<Sarvatt> RAOF: nope its not on any workspace
<Sarvatt> things disappear UP for some reason
<Sarvatt> making windows fullscreen and going back to unmaximized gradually moves them upwards too
<RAOF> Oooh - I remember that problem.
<RAOF> There was a bug in the placement code that wasn't taking into account the window decoration, so every time you did $X the window would move up by the height of the titlebar.
<Sarvatt> yeah that matches what i'm seeing, can reproduce that easily in totem
<Sarvatt> (in a classic gnome session)
<RAOF> There would undoubtedly be someone in #ayatana who knew exactly what that problem will be.
<RAOF> Woot.  Who loves BUG_ON() + a mutex deadlock in filesystems?  That's me!
<Sarvatt> well it looks like it just goes to (0,0) and window controls are underneath the panel when I go windowed to fullscreen and back
<RAOF> Why is plymouth so ugly all of a sudden?  Who turned off anti-aliasing?
<Sarvatt> unmaximized windowed->maximized windowed->unmaximized windowed is working fine atm, sure as heck wasn't earlier. unmaximized windowed->fullscreen->unmaximized windowed goes to 0,0
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I've been wondering too
<Sarvatt> almost looks like its drawing to an 8 bit framebuffer now or something to me
<Sarvatt> and the drm backend never gets used anymore so you just get that lovely crappy 640x480x8 one resized to native res from the looks of it
 * Sarvatt wishes we could switch to a text plugin that only draws progress dots on a purple background so it looks good everywhere instead of this vesafb mess :(
<Sarvatt> the Ubuntu 11.04 text is the only part that looks bad without a framebuffer driver loaded
<Sarvatt> and the drm renderer would be used for KMS and be pretty again :)
<RAOF> And we'd see if nouveau would lock with multiple displays again :)
<Sarvatt> that was fixed in maverick!
<RAOF> Fixed, fixed?  Or âdon't use the drm renderer on nouveauâ fixed?
<Amaranth> Sarvatt: iirc windows moving up like that is already fixed in compiz git
<Amaranth> The bug in compiz+unity that annoys me the most right now is actually the fast that expo is no longer centered because it doesn't take the unity dock in to account :P
<Amaranth> s/fast/fact/
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-10
<RAOF> Heh.  Yeah, that's a bit annoying.
<RAOF> That and nm-applet + unity-panel-service slowly, slowly but surely eating my memory.
<kenvandine> RAOF, cyphermox is looking at the nm-applet leak, it is related to appindicator
<Amaranth> ah, so nm-applet and unity-panel-service are the reason my computer gets progressively slower until it grinds to a halt
<Amaranth> constantly swapping
<Amaranth> nm-applet also has mnemonics enabled, the _ in my ESSID get turned in to underlines
<kenvandine> hey jasoncwarner
<jasoncwarner> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> i have the whole indicator stack queued up to build blocked on dbusmenu
<kenvandine> good times
<kenvandine> trying to get an archive admin to approve dbusmenu binNEWs so the rest can build... and people can stop getting half their desktop held back on upgrade
<kenvandine> doko is looking now
<jasoncwarner> I think that is more fun that me ;) Right now I am fighting to keep my internet connection alive :/ seems telstra is having problems right now
<jasoncwarner> so, I might drop out (again)
<kenvandine> well, trying to do all the updates... i had to fight to keep my network up
<RAOF> I think you might need to strike the ânowâ from that sentence :)
<kenvandine> there was a bug causing nm-applet to make my network go up and down
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: thanks :)
<RAOF> jasoncwarner: Just being a ray of sunshine :)
<kenvandine> i could get my wired connection up with ifconfig... then a few minutes later nm-applet would decide to enable/disable loop would be fun
<kenvandine> over and over again
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine: oh man! that's rough.
<kenvandine> it was a bug in dbusmenu though
<kenvandine> which we got fixed
<kenvandine> check items in menus didn't work
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: I've been in queue w/ Telstra for, get this, 90 minutes and counting.
<kenvandine> so toggling them sent an extra signal, toggling them back
<kenvandine> so as it toggled,it would just keep toggling
<jasoncwarner> I can see why that would be a bad thing ;)
<kenvandine> glad we found it quick :)
<kenvandine> before everyone got it
<kenvandine> it was ugly
<kenvandine> i did lots of cursing here...
<RAOF> jasoncwarner: Testra are famous for their customer service.  Yay monopoly telco!
<kenvandine> seemed like everytime i did a bzr push or merge my net would go down
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Yeah my experience with Telstra is that they have great infrastructure, but the training and knowledge of their phone staff is often somewhat lacking.
 * TheMuso notes that since connecting to cable in May, he has not had one drop out or network slowness.
<TheMuso> slowdown even.
 * RAOF whistles.  Here, fibre, fibre, fibre, fibre!  NBN rollout, this way please!
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> RAOF: You have a legit reason for wanting it ASAP though. I am fortunate enough to be in an area where I am spoilt for choice.
<TheMuso> So if I am still living here when it finally gets to metro Syd, then I'll be one of the last to get it.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Well, I'm actually pretty well off for ADSL options.  Although cable isn't (satelite is, but imagine what launchpad would be like with >2 sec latency on each roundtrip âº)
<TheMuso> Painful I'll bet.
<Amaranth> heh, I have 5mbit ADSL that's usually more like 1.5
<Amaranth> and it seems to hate launchpad
<didrocks> good morning
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks
<rickspencer3> didrocks, fyi, Unity never starts when I boot my Dell mini 10v
<rickspencer3> I'd be happy to provide any debugging info or such
<didrocks> rickspencer3: oh really, what do you get?
<didrocks> wallpaper only?
<rickspencer3> (well, I guess compiz never starts)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, yes
<rickspencer3> it happens every single time
<didrocks> rickspencer3: it's an upgrade?
<rickspencer3> so I start a terminal and run compiz and all if fine
<rickspencer3> didrocks, yes, it's an upgrade
<didrocks> rickspencer3: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<rickspencer3> oops, it says metacity
<rickspencer3> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I put that in the release note :)
<rickspencer3> asha
<rickspencer3> aha, even
<didrocks> rickspencer3: so known issue, which come from the long thread I posted on ubuntu-desktop ML :)
<rickspencer3> well, I'm not on the ubuntu-desktop team, anymore
<didrocks> rickspencer3: today, I'll upload a new gnome-session system
<rickspencer3> *sniff*
<didrocks> this should fix that case :)
<rickspencer3> if I change metacity to compiz, I assume it wills tart working again
 * didrocks hugs rickspencer3
<didrocks> rickspencer3: exactly
<mvo> vish: did you do the lisp icon in s-c? its just too cool :)
<pitti> Good morning
<mvo> hey pitti
<didrocks> rickspencer3: gconftool-2 -t string -s /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager compiz
<pitti> didrocks: looking (sorry, got up late as I went to bed late)
<didrocks> pitti: no worry :) and hey o/
<didrocks> good morning mvo as well :)
<pitti> mvo: guten Morgen!
<vish> mvo: yea, thanks.. mpt gave the idea of using '(( ))'   :)
<rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
<rickspencer3> hey pitti, mvo, vish
<mvo> hey didrocks, good morning rickspencer3
<didrocks> rickspencer3: you're welcome.
<pitti> hey Rick, how's London?
<didrocks> hey vish
<pitti> rickspencer3: do you have snow as well?
<vish> hey rickspencer3 , pitti ,  didrocks :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, SRU testing went well
<pitti> hey vish
<rickspencer3> I am happy with that
<rickspencer3> pitti, no snow, it's too warm
<pitti> rickspencer3: for the new kernel? yes, this one was exceptionally smooth
<rickspencer3> pitti, that's great, but I was referring to the automated test sprint this week
<pitti> didrocks: nux NEWed; unity is depwait on this
<pitti> rickspencer3: ah, even better :)
<rickspencer3> indeed
<rickspencer3> :)
<didrocks> pitti: right, I'll ping you once build. Thanks!
<didrocks> built*
<pitti> rickspencer3: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/ is pure awesome
<rickspencer3> well, it's getting there
<rickspencer3> nice to have the dashboard, but I'd like to see an order of magnitude more tests :)
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<bryceh> pretty sizable proportion of failures there
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I am absolutely delighted with Unity on my Dell mini 10v
<rickspencer3> bryceh, well, lots of them are the tests themselves failing
<rickspencer3> and then there are a lot of known bugs that aren't being picked up by tests
<bryceh> rickspencer3, yeah I just set it up on my 10v this evening
<didrocks> rickspencer3: nice, the perfs are good?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, yes, smoking fast
<didrocks> excellent :)
<rickspencer3> it's faster on my small screen i945 than my larger i965 machine
<bryceh> rickspencer3, ahh yeah the standard two problems for all automated tests
<didrocks> rickspencer3: you will see, once you will have the update today, you can't live anymore without intellihide :)
<rickspencer3> yes, unfortunately UI testing is quite brittle
<rickspencer3> didrocks, sweet, but I was told not to update until Monday
<rickspencer3> due to Python
<rickspencer3> I don't think anyone wants to waste time helping me get my computer running again during the weekend ;)
<bryceh> rickspencer3, when I was doing automated testing before, what I looked for was the change in #fails from one day to the next.  Are you keeping daily statistics so you can spot changes in #'s?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, also, I guess "open a new instance" was added to launcher items, too
<rickspencer3> bryceh, well, it's not my project directly
<rickspencer3> but I would love to see that kind of thing
<rickspencer3> the next step, I think, is to look at the tools we are using
<rickspencer3> I'm wondering if we should be using trial + testtools, and integrate mago into that
<rickspencer3> like create derive MagoTest from Test and add all the ldtp functinality there
<rickspencer3> the tests are hard enough to maintain, I'm not sure maintaining a test runner and test library is terribly useful
<rickspencer3> plus if we used trial, we could integrate the UI tests with unit tests quite easily
<rickspencer3> </pontification>
<didrocks> hum, seems I was disconnected
<didrocks> 09:55:00     didrocks | rickspencer3: right, and it works well :)
<didrocks> 09:55:24     didrocks | hum, I think updating evolution to evolution express layout by default will be a shock for some people :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, hey
<rickspencer3> didrocks, well, it works for me
<didrocks> rickspencer3: evolution express or the "open a new instance"
<rickspencer3> didrocks, both
<rickspencer3> well, I must have open new instance
<rickspencer3> I use workspaces
<rickspencer3> I spent some time this week whining about how they broke my work flow
<rickspencer3> so I think they added the new instance thing to get me off their backs
<rickspencer3> ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I saw the related bug report :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, well, imagine that bug report given to you verbally in person on a daily basis ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: which means your whining is suprisingly more effective than seb's one or mine :)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: for evolution express, I'm not happy with the new one: each time you click on a folder it opens a tab with a default layout which is different from your current one
<didrocks> I'll see with upstream, I have no option for changing that it seems
<rickspencer3> hmm
<didrocks> as you can imagine, you end up with a lot of tabs quickly
<rickspencer3> that seems a bit odd, yeah
<didrocks> you can't reorder them and such
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> I seem to recall that in Gtk tab ordering was not too hard to do
<rickspencer3> tab, reordering, I mean
<didrocks> yeah, I remember a blog post on planet GNOME about it
<didrocks> the most annoying thing to me is the default layout changing
<didrocks> still trying to see if it's the code or an option
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, I have replied to your latest comments on https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162 and the GDM merge proposal.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing (affects: 30) (dups: 10) (heat: 188)" [Undecided,In progress]
<GunnarHj> pitti: Haven't changed anything yet - tried to justify my suggested code instead.
<pitti> GunnarHj: yep, saw it; I had hoped to put some more time into this this week, if there wouldn't have been so many fires to put out (OO.o, gdm, lauchpadlib, python); sorry about that
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, fire fighting is definitely more urgent. No problem - I'll just await your next step.
<dbarth> hyia
<pitti> bonjour dbarth
<dbarth> pitti: hi, sorry if i'm the 101 one to bug you with the work items
<dbarth> pitti: guten morgen
<dbarth> pitti: but it sounds like the script lost the milestone definitions or somthing?
<pitti> dbarth: yeah, seems james_w's extra_projects patch somehow wreaked havoc
<pitti> dbarth: I'm currently putting out another fire in the binarymangler, then I'll get to this one, and then back to burning OO.o
<dbarth> ah nw, i'll just ignore the spam for now; was not sure if that was a definitive milestone renaming
<pitti> firefighting week..
 * dbarth passes a water bucket to pitti
<didrocks> salut dbarth
<dbarth> didrocks: salut
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_!
<didrocks> pitti: hum, dbusmenu has some instability issue, so no unity binary for now
<didrocks> not sure if kenvandine was working on it
<pitti> :(
<didrocks> s/instability/is not installable
<rodrigo_> any idea about the missing /etc/termcap file?
<didrocks> pitti: trying a rebuild, I can install dbusmenu on my pbuilder (same version)
<didrocks> grrr, still FTBFS
 * didrocks reopens his chroot
<didrocks> pitti: libdbusmenu-glib2 is in universe
<didrocks> pitti: is it intended?
<pitti> didrocks: no, that's a bug
<pitti> some archive admin didn't pay attention
<didrocks> pitti: ok, at least, we have the explanation :)
<pitti> didrocks: fixed; will take 90 minutes to actually get active, though
<didrocks> pitti: ok, need to wait for a publisher run, right?
<didrocks> thanks a lot for doing all this multi-tasking pitti :)
<pitti> ok, burnout charts unbroken
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: correct
<bryceh> burnout charts?  ;-)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> bryceh: I think that term was coined in some 1-on-1 between rickspencer3 and me, where we discussed both burnout and work items :)
<didrocks> it's a rampage I guess :) and hopefully some falldown during holidays :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, I wish I could figure out a way to convince you guys to not sign up for so many work items
<rickspencer3> I mean, it's a good problem to have, people want to get a lot done
<rickspencer3> but I guess I hope people feel they can set reasonable goals in work items
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, didrocks has half of them this cycle, for unity :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<didrocks> yeah, but there are small :)
<didrocks> (it's normally the time of making a joke around "size" and "matter", but wellâ¦ ;))
<rickspencer3> heh
<rodrigo_> :)
<rickspencer3> well, here are some unhelpful manager platitudes:
<rickspencer3> "work smarter not harder"
<rickspencer3> etc...
<rickspencer3> there, burn out problem all fixed
<rodrigo_> is anyone running with all the latest updates for natty?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: depends on what you call all the latest :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I've updated yesterday morning
<bryceh> yeah I am, freshly updated
<rodrigo_> didrocks, well, I apt-get upgrade'd yesterday and got all the updates
<didrocks> + new unity/nux/bamf of course :)
<rodrigo_> and gnome-terminal doesn't work, it complains about missing /etc/termcap
<rodrigo_> which package does that file belong to?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm using terminator, sorry :)
<didrocks> and I don't have that file as well
<rodrigo_> didrocks, terminator fails also
<didrocks> yeah, they both uses vte
<rodrigo_> didrocks, don't you see a message about it in terminator?
<didrocks> not at all
<rodrigo_> hmm
<didrocks> let me see what apt-get update tells me
<didrocks> well, it tells me I break everything with my local evolution :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: oh right, forget about it, because my local nux is bad and I had to --force-depends, I won't upgrade until getting the archive nux
<didrocks> (and unity)
<rodrigo_> ah
<rodrigo_> bryceh, you up-to-date? don't get that error?
<bryceh> rodrigo_, nope, gnome-terminal works fine for me here
<rodrigo_> :(
<didrocks> rodrigo_: what env | grep TERM tells you?
<didrocks> set to xterm?
<rodrigo_> TERM=xterm
<rodrigo_> XTERM_SHELL=/bin/bash
<rodrigo_> XTERM_LOCALE=en_US.UTF-8
<rodrigo_> XTERM_VERSION=XTerm(259)
<didrocks> sounds goodâ¦ (I don't have all the XTERM info, but wellâ¦)
<bryceh> not that I'm not seeing other issues...  ;-)
<seb128> hello
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> how are things today?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<didrocks> seb128: well, we are using the time you aren't there to break everything, as usual :)
<seb128> that's why I joined :p
 * didrocks runsâ¦
<seb128> did kenvandine manage to rebuild the indicators?
<seb128> or are those broken still?
<seb128> he was still debugging with ted when I went to bed
<didrocks> I didn't see him this morning, so not sure
<seb128> I read the IRC backlog before stopping the computer
<seb128> well said differently "did people upgrade and got a broken system"?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I have some stuff broken after an upgrade, but not the indicators, it seems
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks, did someone promote the libdbusmenu binary for you?
<seb128> unity and the indicator stack failed to build
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, pitti did
<didrocks> still pending for the publisher to run to ask for a rebuild
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I just retried a bunch of those which failed again
<seb128> do you know when pitti did the promotion?
<seb128> didrocks, what is the perf bootchart in unity?
<seb128> just curious ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: it's a tool to hook up in the system bootchart for system starts and such
<didrocks> seb128: not used for now :)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: I think I don't need to breaks: against nux? (if you get the new gnome-session and not the new nux-tools package pulled as a recommend by unity, you won't have the unity session starting but gnome-panel + compiz)
<seb128> didrocks, no, just a recommends should do
<seb128> though seems almost a case where unity should depends on it
<didrocks> seb128: right, but what about the other derivatives like ubuntu-studio? it will pull nux then
<seb128> why?
<seb128> well unity depends on it anyway?
<seb128> is there a way to install unity without it?
<didrocks> seb128: no, but ubuntu-studio doesn't want unity by default
<didrocks> "just a recommends should do" -> you mean gnome-session or unity?
<seb128> " though seems almost a case where unity should depends on it"
<didrocks> ok, not sure it was related
<seb128> wdyt?
<didrocks> so agreed, that's what I've done :)
<didrocks> just wanted to double check
<didrocks> no deps, recommends
<didrocks> unity can work without it
<didrocks> it's just for session starting
<seb128> I would use a depends anyway
<seb128> we know how recommends go for those sort of things
<seb128> empathy recommends dconf
<seb128> we get bugs regularly about people who don't get the recommends for random reasons
<didrocks> and we got a lot of feedback?
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so yeah, can change that in a future upload as depends
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> it's just than if someone is upgrading gnome-session without unity, he will be fallbacked
<didrocks> which is fine I guess for now
<seb128> recommends are fine for things like gnome-session recommends nautilus
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> but if you need it to get functional, like having the session start for most user, depends is better
<didrocks> ok, will do that, that's for your advice
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> FYI, the detection module take 2s on my system, so yeah, we will need to cache it
<didrocks> my system isn't that slow :)
<seb128> how did you measure it?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, it's just empiric right now, time + launching it
<didrocks> seb128: it was just to get an idea if it was quick or not
<didrocks> I think as it's spawned by gnome-session, we will see it as a separate process in bootcharts
<seb128> didrocks, ignore the unity build failure it does fail
<seb128> I retried the build since launchpad showed libdbusmenu binaries published
<seb128> but seems they are not, indicators still fail to build
<didrocks> seb128: hum, ok, thanks for the notice :) seems you really want the new unity!!! ;) (and you are right, the latest release is eally good :))
<didrocks> I got trapped one or twice by launchpad telling me it's published and it wasn't
<didrocks> not sure what's the right indication is
<seb128> didrocks, well, I really don't want the indicator abi breakage to happen at the end of the day
<seb128> when nobody is around if things breaks
<seb128> I want the stack rebuilt now and people to test
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I understand, was just joke. It's the same for new nux breaking old unity
<seb128> if we just wait things will start being rebuilt like a 6pm european time
<seb128> and break when nobody is left at work
<didrocks> (abi break but even if the packaging handles that, I guess people will do partial upgradesâ¦)
<pitti> seb128: promotion to main will still need to wait for the current publisher run
<seb128> pitti, well launchpad changed from "pending" to "published"
<seb128> which I though meant that the publisher has run
<pitti> seb128: no, only that it started to run
<seb128> didrocks, well it's rather that ken had issues yesterday with the new libdbusmenu
<pitti> i. e. it switched to "published" around 12:05
<seb128> didrocks, like upstream code breakages
<pitti> and it will be "really" published at 13:00
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was an hour off
<seb128> I know that the publisher starts just after the hour and take between half an hour and an hour
<seb128> I just though that it would switch to "published" in launchpad after the actual publishing on the archive
<didrocks> oh ok, so launchpad "published" means "ready for next publisher run?"
<seb128> seems it means "published on launchpad"
<seb128> then it needs to be published on the archive
<didrocks> ok. Now I'll look at the time it is and it will easier for me to know when it's actually published :)
<didrocks> (as in "in the archive")
<seb128> well the publisher starts just after the hour and takes a bit less than 1 hour
<seb128> so it's always in the 2 hours after a build
<seb128> between 1 or 2 hours depending when you get the build
<didrocks> yeah, I know that, I was just thinking the launchpad status was reflecting the archive publishing status
<seb128> I usually don't watch the launchpad status but seems it doesn't reflect the archive since those retry failed :p
<pitti> seb128: it's usually save to check with m on cocoplum
<pitti> "m -s natty -S libdbusmenu"
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<rodrigo_> grr, brasero doesn't work neither
<didrocks> rodrigo_: hum? it worked for me
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I had a bug, like it's only the second time you burn your disc that it actually burns it
<didrocks> (and I reproduced that twice)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, crashes on my desktop, and just ejects the blank CD on my laptop
<didrocks> hum :/
<didrocks> I just used it on Tuesday
<seb128> didrocks, can you do eog and gedit no changes rebuilt?
<didrocks> seb128: sure
<seb128> it's for the python transition
<didrocks> seb128: and so evo is needed as well or not?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok, so I'll revert the "express by default" part
<didrocks> and then commit it again until we take a decision and have more info upstream
<seb128> well I guess others need to be rebuilt as well still
<seb128> didrocks, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/3.2.6-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> seb128: oh nice :)
<seb128> ok, I retried most indicators now
<seb128> time for lunch, I might be back later on but please try to dist-upgrade the unity and dx stack
<seb128> so we know if something is broken before the end of week
<seb128> pitti, can you new unity-common when unity finished building?
<pitti> seb128: yes, can do
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> bbl
<kenvandine> pitti, thanks for fixing the component mismatches for libdbusmenu
<pitti> kenvandine: no problem
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning -- early for you!
<kenvandine> yeah...
<kenvandine> checking on the builds before feeding and getting the kids ready for school
<seb128> kenvandine, I just retried the stack
<kenvandine> all of yesterdays work is still tied up getting built
<seb128> so you can come back in an hour
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> i was about to do that, thanks!
<kenvandine> seb128, can you get ofono and geoclue promoted?  we still need someone to review the gypsy  MIR
<seb128> pitti, ^
 * pitti isn't in ~ubuntu-mir any more
<seb128> does the geoclue stack really needs ofono?
<seb128> anyway I'm not supposed to work today and late for lunch :p
<seb128> pitti, I think mterry did the review
<seb128> it needs promoted from an archive admin
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ right?
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> I should probably close IRC for a few hours to finally get this **#$#$ OO.o to build
<pitti> seb128: have a nice weekend!
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> you as well!
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy your week-end :)
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, mterry handled the mir
<kenvandine> seb128, enjoy!
<kenvandine> we'll handle it :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, you are about updating OO.o? can I slip in a change?
<pitti> didrocks: sure
<didrocks> pitti: it will be a change in the .desktop file, need to talk to dx, can wait for an hour?
<didrocks> (it shouldn't break the rest I guess :))
<pitti> didrocks: an _hour_? you're kidding me :)
<pitti> didrocks: I already spent 4 hours work and 12 hours realtime to even get it to build halfway :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so I think it can wait ;)
<pitti> didrocks: absolutely
<didrocks> pitti: good luck!
<pitti> didrocks: is that desktop file upstream?
<pitti> didrocks: due to the silly build system, making upstream changes is incredibly painful
<didrocks> pitti: it's adding unity quicklist support to the desktop upstream file, right :/
<didrocks> yeah, with the goo directoryâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: so if you just tell me "please change this file to this and that", it'll take half an hour of actual work to turn that into a patch-in-patch
<didrocks> pitti: hum, I'll try to spent that half an hour myself on that then to not slow you down
<pitti> didrocks: well, I'll figure it out
<pitti> didrocks: it's just not "quickly slip in that patch"
<pitti> and I really want to get that thing to build in the first place
<pitti> before touching anything else
<didrocks> pitti: sure :) there is no hurry in any case, it was just for avoiding another upload
<didrocks> good hunt :)
<pitti> didrocks: thanks
<bcurtiswx_> libubuntuone1.0-cil failed to upgrade
<bcurtiswx_> error log http://paste.ubuntu.com/541869/
<nessita> today's updates are trying to remove unity due to broken packages (hello all!) :-)
<nessita> is that caused by the python2.7 update?
<didrocks> hey nessita
<didrocks> nessita: borken packages?
<didrocks> broken*
<nessita> hey didrocks!
<didrocks> are you sure it's not just wait on unity-common?
<nessita> didrocks: not sure what you're asking
<didrocks> nessita: what's your output of apt-get upgrade ?
<nessita> didrocks: hum, apt has nothing broken, aptitude had
<nessita> didrocks: I'll update with apt, thanks for the pointer
<didrocks> yw
<bcurtiswx_> im still waiting for a lot of packages to allow for install with apt
<bcurtiswx_> like libgtk3.0 upgrades
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, have you see the libubuntuone upgrade failure?
<pitti> didrocks: do you have concerns about any of your 17 WIs for alpha-2 that they are in danger?
<didrocks> pitti: let me have a look, one sec
<pitti> didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-2.html#didrocks for your convenience
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :) ok, there is nothing worrying me really
<didrocks> work on nautilus to get it not move when locking unlocking the launcher -> as told on the ML, someone can maybe pick that one
<pitti> didrocks: splendid; thanks for checking!
<didrocks> and oneconf is optional
<pitti> (currently writing weekly report for release meeting)
<didrocks> pitti: on evolution express, will discuss on next meeting, but not sure if we will push it by default
<pitti> didrocks: you mean "push" -> enable it in the .desktop files?
<didrocks> right
<kenvandine> yay... my gwibber/facebook allocation fix is really making a difference, yesterday we only had 234K over allocation failures
<didrocks> pitti: you can have a look with --express on the command line, and the multiple tab thing and weird behavior is worrying me
<didrocks> pitti: still waiting to chat with the upstream part taking care of evo express about it
<pitti> didrocks: ok; well, it won't break the world if we defer it
<kenvandine> i really don't like that tabbed interface in express now
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, we quickly end up opening too many of them
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> not how i like to read mail :)
<didrocks> and they don't get the right layout as well (which is known bug)
<kenvandine> i switched back to traditional
<didrocks> well, let's discuss that next week :)
<kenvandine> its a bummer though, i generally preferred express for my use,and think it is the better choice for default...
<didrocks> oh nice! openoffice.org --help
<didrocks> never noticed itâ¦
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, a new one?
 * rodrigo_ looks
<kenvandine> <bcurtiswx_> libubuntuone1.0-cil failed to upgrade
<kenvandine>  error log http://paste.ubuntu.com/541869/
<kenvandine> i just got it too
<kenvandine> haven't looked though
<rodrigo_> ok, looking
<kenvandine> thx
<didrocks> pitti: good news, maybe the patch for openoffice won't be needed
<rodrigo_> ah, it's the same as the bug I got this morning
<pitti> didrocks: oh?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, good... so reproducable :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, as unity now have this "open a new window" option that basically launch the desktop file, and that OOo create a new document in that case, we shouldn't need a new "create a new document" quicklist item
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, well, seems to have installed fine for me, but yeah, at least 2 people reported it now
<kenvandine> it is some of the gac magic i assume
<kenvandine> but i don't know much about that
<rodrigo_> yes
<didrocks> ok, restarting to test the new session system, brb
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the firefox kde patch in bug 684482 - is that something upstream is/will be working on, or us?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 684482 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "kmozillahelper doesn't work with firefox 4 beta 7 (affects: 1) (heat: 469)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684482
<bcurtiswx_> im guessing unity-common is new and is waiting for someone to approve ?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - we have a distro patch for that
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that but is targetted to alpha-2, but doesn't have an assignee; will you work on that, or the Kubuntu team, or upstream?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that will be me, it's just a case of reviewing a merge request really
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, good; so that should be on track for a2?
<pitti> bcurtiswx_: already done
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that won't be a problem
<pitti> chrisccoulson: nice, thanks
<bcurtiswx_> pitti \o/ :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so confirmed, no need for openoffice patch :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, good; I'm just doing another test build, hope it'll get a bit further now
<geser> is libindicate the current source package for python-indicate? so indicate-python could get removed from the archive (it also builds python-indicate)?
<kenvandine> geser, yes
<kenvandine> didrocks, so there is a way to do something with quicklists based on the desktop file?
<asac> mvo: how do i enable partner with just one command line?
<asac> mvo: just use apturl? or does add-apt-repository with some syntax?
<didrocks> kenvandine: from today yes
<didrocks> kenvandine: why?
<kenvandine> curious what kinds of things can be added
<didrocks> kenvandine: whatever you wish, but sorry, I'm kind of busy right now :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, no worries, i can read the source when i have time :)
<asac> 15:30 < asac> mvo: how do i enable partner with just one command line?
<asac> anybody else knows?
<kenvandine> asac, not me...
<asac> thanks for at least not ignoring me kenvandine ;)
<didrocks> neither do I asac, sorry
<asac> in worst case i do apturl apt:adobe-flashplugin?channel=lucid-partner
<asac> ;)
<asac> of course maverick-partner
<asac> but i want to use add-apt-repository
<asac> hmm. seems it needs to be full apt line instead of ppa:...
<asac> ok works: "sudo add-apt-repository "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner""
<mvo> asac: natty or maverick?
<mvo> asac: "sudo add-apt-repository "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu natty partner" should work
<asac> mvo: ack ... already found
<mvo> asac: oki
<bcurtiswx_> rodrigo_, should I be getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/541904/ right now for apt-get dist-upgrade ?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, looking
<Sir_Konrad> I'm guessing that it just takes awhile for Unity to cache icons for the programs.
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, hmm, I guess it's because of the introspection rebuilds?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, mterry should know
 * bcurtiswx_ pokes mterry
<pitti> wow, OO.o build going on for 1.5 hours already -- that's further than I ever got before \o/
 * pitti watches his four CPU cores glow
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, so, your empathy branch fails for me on libwebkitgtk having calls to undefined gtk functions
<rodrigo_> to gdk_drawable stuff, to be more precise
 * bcurtiswx_ throws computer out window
<rodrigo_> no, don't :)
<bcurtiswx_> i had empathy 2.91.3 finally create a chat window.. then it wouldn't show me what was in the chat window.. was quite depressing
<bcurtiswx_> im guessing once apt lets me upgrade GTK to 2.91.6 i will have much better luck
<rodrigo_> ok, you'll keep working on the branch you told me, right?
 * bcurtiswx_ has blank stare
<bcurtiswx_> Ohhh right
<bcurtiswx_> my bzr branch
<bcurtiswx_> yes, thats a work in progress.  There's a ton of things to add to changelog once I get it working
<bcurtiswx_> im waiting on the new GTK to see if the source build works before attempting the patched debian build
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, right, I ask because I'll work from that branch to try building it, so please push everything you change there, ok?
<bcurtiswx_> rodrigo_, will do
<scott-work> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> scott-work: hey
<scott-work> hi didrocks :)  do you have time to explain a bit about setting gnome as the default session?
<didrocks> scott-work: sure
<scott-work> didrocks: i believe this is the postinit you mentioned: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
<scott-work> er, postinst
<didrocks> scott-work: right
<didrocks> scott-work: ignore all the gconf part
<scott-work> didrocks: okay
<didrocks> what interests you there is:
<didrocks> case "$1" in
<didrocks> configure|upgrade)
<didrocks> if [ -x /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session ] ; then
<didrocks>     /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session --keep-old une || true
<didrocks> fi
<didrocks> ;; esac
<didrocks> so, use that helper
<didrocks> --keep-old tells "don't set it as a default session if there is another one explicitely set"
<didrocks> (the default ubuntu session doesn't count)
<didrocks> that's what xubuntu and mythbuntu are using too
<didrocks> then, the parameter is session name
<didrocks> here "une"
<scott-work> hmmm, okay, i'm not a programmer but i can follow the logic
<didrocks> so, it will look for /usr/share/xsessions/une.desktop
<scott-work> yeah, obviously i need something else besides une :)
<didrocks> of course :)
<didrocks> I would suggest your own session
<didrocks> or you can use gnome-classic
<scott-work> i'll also dig into the xubuntu code as well
<scott-work> gnome-classic should be good, have they renamed the session yet?  isn't just called gnome at this point?
 * scott-work is not at home on ubuntu :(  and can't look under /usr/share/xsessions
<didrocks> scott-work: I've already named the session this way
<didrocks> so, yeah, gnome-classic should be good
<didrocks> but I've added a lot of stuff since lucid for diverging gconf path
<didrocks> and making une and mythbuntu parallelly installable to traditional desktop session
<didrocks> which means one session doesn't screw up the paramater of another one
<scott-work> okay, found xubuntu's settings also
<didrocks> scott-work: look at une one on maverick, than can be interesting to you
<scott-work> didrocks: i noticed UNE says for configure|upgrade but xubuntu only says upgrade
<didrocks> scott-work: should be configure|upgrade for that, but it doesn't really matter
<scott-work> sorry, people keep coming to my desk and asking questions :P
<scott-work> didrocks: yes, i will also look at maverick une code as well then
<scott-work> didrocks: i think this is enough for me to move forward with albeit with some help from the.muso or per.sia perhaps to make sure i'm not doing anything studpid ;)
<didrocks> scott-work: I think the best way for you is to look at that and ask me on Monday if you have other questions
<scott-work> thank you greatly
<didrocks> scott-work: you will see that I change values in gconf and such
<didrocks> scott-work: you're really welcome :)
<scott-work> okay, so you are saying that the maverick une method is NOT the way to do it ?
 * scott-work hasn't look at it yet
<didrocks> scott-work: no, it's the way to do if for you so that people can install ubuntu-studio alongside ubuntu-desktop, xubuntu or mythbuntu
<didrocks> scott-work: it's a little more work but it worth it
<scott-work> didrocks: i looked at the maverick une settings http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
<scott-work> it appears to be the same as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
<didrocks> scott-work: not completely, there are some arch dependant stuff
<scott-work> except in the natty code you added the armel section
<didrocks> scott-work: also, look at the full package for setting the session
<didrocks> not only the postinst in that case
<scott-work> oh!
<scott-work> okay :)
<bcurtiswx_> i wish I didn't have to use wireless at home
<pitti> good night everyone!
<pitti> have a nice weekend
<bcurtiswx_> nite pitti
<bcurtiswx_> why does apt want me to install python2.6-dev when 2.7-dev is available ?
<bcurtiswx_> ah ha, i see my problem maybe
<bcurtiswx_> xchat-gnome depends on 2.6
<bcurtiswx_> it needs to be rebuilt
<bcurtiswx_> im using that currently
<didrocks> have a nice week-end pitti :)
<bcurtiswx_> how would I go about rebuilding xchat-gnome ? up its dep on GTK ?
<vish>  hi, are we getting any GNOME package updated to v3.0 ?
<vish> any app rather..
<cyphermox> does somebody have time to review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/xchat-gnome/update-to-0.26.2+git/+merge/43283 ?
<nessita> hi all! does anyone know how i need to tweak debian/control to solve:
<nessita>  The following packages have unmet dependencies:  ubuntu-sso-client : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<nessita> since I'm not specifying any python version explicitely
<cyphermox> installing what package is saying this?
<nessita> cyphermox: I've got a report for ubuntu-sso-client (see bug #687 852)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687 in launchpad-foundations "ProductReleaseVocabulary doesn't sort correctly (dup-of: 73094)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 73094 in launchpad-registry "Product page should order series by importance, releases in order (dups: 1)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73094
<nessita> bug #687852 :-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687852 in valide "Unable to compile SVN (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687852
<nessita> oops! my bad :-D bug #687952
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 687952 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-sso-client python dependency error (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687952
<Sarvatt> nessita: no change rebuild
 * nessita is suffering from Friday afternoon typos
<cyphermox> ah
<nessita> Sarvatt: ok, I'll do that. Thanks!
<Sarvatt> I just no change rebuilt it locally, Depends: python (<< 2.8), python (>= 2.7), python-support (>= 0.90.0), python-dbus, python-gtk2, python-lazr.restfulclient, python-oauth, python-twisted-core, python-twisted-web, python-webkit, python-xdg
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-11
<ggeorgy> hi
<ggeorgy> can you help me with a problem?
<nisshh> ggeorgy, depends what type of problem, this may not be the right channel :)
<nisshh> ggeorgy, describe it anyway
<ggeorgy> i search a ubuntu ym program with webcam suport
<ggeorgy> for yahoo
<nisshh> ggeorgy, sorry, ym application?
<nisshh> do you mean im?
<ggeorgy> yes {instant messenger}
<nisshh> oh ok
<nisshh> hmmm, im not sure there is one, but cheese is a webcam application, maybe it can be used in conjuction with emapthy/pidgin?
<nisshh> ggeorgy, ^^
<nisshh> ggeorgy, sorry i cant help more, im not a webcam user
<ggeorgy> i found a program on google
<ggeorgy> but i can't install it
<nisshh> is it a .exe file?
<ggeorgy> no , is a linux program
<nisshh> ggeorgy, hmm, where did you get it from?
<ggeorgy> http://gyachi.sourceforge.net/
<nisshh> ggeorgy, did you click "Ubuntu packages and plugins" under downloads?
<ggeorgy> yes
<nisshh> hmm
<nisshh> ggeorgy, what happens when you double click the downloaded file?
<nisshh> oh i see, its a PPA
<nisshh> ggeorgy, you have to add the PPA to your system :)
<nisshh> (first)
<ggeorgy> ok
<nisshh> ggeorgy, which version of Ubuntu are you running?
<ggeorgy> 10.10
<nisshh> ggeorgy, ok, open Software Center and look in the Edit menu for "Software sources..." click that
<ggeorgy> i found this site  http://theubuntunews.blogspot.com/2010/06/gyachie-yahoo-messenger-on-ubuntu-129.html
<ggeorgy> i added the ppa but not work
<nisshh> ggeorgy, ah, wait a sec, that PPA doesnt support Ubuntu 10.10 yet :(
<nisshh> ggeorgy, so prettymuch, you cant install gyachie from that PPA :(
<ggeorgy> oh
<ggeorgy> http://blog.sudobits.com/2010/10/24/how-to-install-gyachi-in-ubuntu-10-10/
<ggeorgy> for 10.10 ?
<nisshh> ggeorgy, that package is for 9.10, but it might work, yes
<ggeorgy> ok, i found the solution :sudo add-apt-repository ppa:adilson/experimental
<ggeorgy> sudo apt-get update
<ggeorgy> sudo apt-get install gyachi
<ggeorgy> it worked
<nisshh> coolies
<nisshh> i didnt want to tell you "enter this in the terminal..." it kind of puts people off :)
<nisshh> ggeorgy, ^^
<nisshh> most people leave as soon as its said
<nisshh> so i consider you a brave one for trying it yourself :)
<ggeorgy> ok.thanks :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-12-12
<penguin42> Can someone point me at something that documents what happens when Unity is running as opposed to classic?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-05
<smspillaz> hi
<RAOF> Howdie smspillaz
<RAOF> What's going down in groove town?
<smspillaz> groove town ?
<smspillaz> its perth
<smspillaz> nothing happens here
<smspillaz> RAOF: well, I am grooving out by writing tons and tons of classes and abstractions to make testing work in compiz but its like
<smspillaz> this is the one thing that makes me hate C++
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> Dynamic languages like python love unit-testing, and low level stuff like C also works fine.  It's the intermediate languages like C++ where unittesting means fighting language features.
<smspillaz> its not really fighting its more like
<smspillaz> forcing you to do things properly
<smspillaz> except that nobody ever did things "properly" in compiz
<smspillaz> so you pretty much end up rewriting the whole thing
<desrt_> smspillaz: hey.  can i convince you to use the compiz bell plugin as a procrastination strategy to avoid writing tests?
<smspillaz> desrt: lol
<smspillaz> desrt: but then I'd have to write tests for the bell plugin!
<smspillaz> desrt: and then tests for the tests!
<RAOF> Move Xig!  For great justice!
<smspillaz> lol
<desrt> smspillaz: you could invoke proverbs to avoid writing a test for the bell plugin
<desrt> who would question the knowledge or proverbs?
<smspillaz> desrt: proverbs
<desrt> *of
<smspillaz> ?
<desrt> smspillaz: commit message: 'ask not for whom the bell tolls'
<smspillaz> lol
<robert_ancell> RAOF, configure.ac:36: error: must install xorg-macros 1.14 or later before running autoconf/autogen - any ideas?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Got xutils-dev installed?  That's where xorg-macros lives.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, that's what I'm looking for, thanks!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, does anyone use colormaps anymore?
 * desrt eyes robert_ancell with a high level of suspicion
 * robert_ancell looks innocnet
<desrt> i hope you're not planning on doing anything that would make it more difficult for me to run starcraft!
<robert_ancell> and spell good
<robert_ancell> desrt, does starcraft use colormaps?
<desrt> yes
<robert_ancell> via wine?
<desrt> well
<desrt> it uses windows colourmaps
<desrt> "256 color mode"
<desrt> i think wine may automatically convert if the X server is running in 24/32bit
<desrt> which generally causes the game to run much slower
<RAOF> Right.
<desrt> since it can't just memory map straight through anymore
<RAOF> No one uses colormaps.
<desrt> but has to perform a mapping on each pixel
<RAOF> Because no one uses 8bpp.
<desrt> starcraft is the most important thing you can do with your computer
<RAOF> Technically, the Composite extension allows you to divorce the bitdepth of the windows from the bitdepth of the framebuffer.
<desrt> we should really have someone dedicated to making sure it runs efficiently
<RAOF> So, if you wanted fast starcraft what you should do is to propose an extension to Composite, and implement it.
<desrt> hmmmmm
<desrt> on the premise that mutter/compiz would be able to do the colour mapping faster than wine?
<desrt> (probably a pretty good premise, actually)
<RAOF> Right.
<robert_ancell> is starcraft not fast enough anyway?  I mean, it was designed in the early pentium era right?
<RAOF> There have been discussions on the xorg devel mailing list along the lines of âYeah, this is totally possible, and I'll implement it.  Right after learning Portugeseâ
<desrt> robert_ancell: having to map every single pixel as it's written to the screen is a non-trivial undertaking
<desrt> even if there's only 640x480 of them :p
<RAOF> Actually, its really eas.
<RAOF> As long as you're allowed to use a GPU.  Which seems reasonable :)
<desrt> right.  wine uses the cpu :)
<desrt> and i think it does it on the same core as the game is already running on
<RAOF> It totally should be creating 8bit palletised textures.
<desrt> so no help there
<desrt> hah
<RAOF> It's a supported GL format :)
<RAOF> (Which I think (a) no-one uses and hence (b) no-one cares that it's slow)
<desrt> i don't think it has that level of information from starcraft
<desrt> i think it just sees a giant field of pixels
<RAOF> No, but Compiz certainly could.
<desrt> ah
<desrt> you mean dynamically update a 640x480-sized 8bit texture with the framebuffer content from the game
<desrt> ya.  that would probably work rather well
<RAOF> Yeah.  You'd advertise an 8bit window format to Wine, Wine would use it, and Compiz would do the upload as an 8bit palletised texture.
<desrt> i can imagine that it could be the least-optimised codepath in the GPU/driver and still be capable of delivering full motion at 640x480 on intel hardware
<desrt> t wine: plz haz 8bit pixmap
<desrt>  - love, compiz
<RAOF> Failing anything else, colourspace conversion is the poster-child for pixel shaders.
<RAOF> Which everything non-ancient has.
<desrt> RAOF: so.. how much free time do you have this cycle to dedicate to making starcraft awesomely fast while using 1% of the CPU?
<RAOF> I've already got an X extension on my plate, and it's not Composite :P
<desrt> btw
<desrt> did you see ajax finally pushed the xfixes extension for selective property notifications?
<desrt> i don't care what version of X you're shipping this cycle, you need to pick that patch
<RAOF> I did see that, yes.
<desrt> actually, now that i read the email, i don't care for it that much
<desrt> it falls short in a couple of areas
<desrt> but it's still a million times better than the current situation
<desrt> and it fits with the nature of X better than my own suggestion did
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ooh, which extension is that?
<RAOF> Something for DX.
<desrt> RAOF: how about my grab-detecting extension? :)
<desrt> that would actually be useful...
<desrt> (well... the starcraft thing would be useful too... but i can understand if it's a bit of a hard sell)
<desrt> ((and honestly, would probably most easily be implemented as a nested X server which rendered itself using GL complete with scaling and the input mapping required to deal with that))
<robert_ancell> learning more about X really makes the old stuff in GTK+ make a lot more sense
<desrt> but also makes you want to kill it with fire all the more...
<desrt> colourmaps and visuals leaking out of the toolkit = pretty broken abstraction
<robert_ancell> RAOF, No package 'xf86driproto' found ?
<RAOF> x11proto-dri-dev?
<RAOF> Ah, sorry. x11proto-xf86dri-dev
 * RAOF is apparently today's apt-file replacement âº
<robert_ancell> so much friendlier than apt-file :)
<TheMuso> lol
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<Sweetshark> Moin Desktopers!
<pitti> hey Sweetshark, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: enjoyed your first "free" weekend? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: well, not as much as I wanted. Unfortunatly since last Thursday, my neck is totally blocked (as the top of my body), so I can't really moved and the pain is quite severe :/ So, the week-end has been video games mostly, trying to move as few as possible
<didrocks> but video games week-end can be nice sometimesâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: erk, how did that come?
<pitti> didrocks: the video gaming sure, but certainly not the body pain?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm not sure at all how it came, made a vasovagal episod Wednesday evening on the way back from the rock danse. Julie told me that I was quite straight during this, so maybe I hurted some muscles back then
<didrocks> pitti: and you? how was your week-end? Went to Dresden?
<pitti> didrocks: no, to Halle; we had a family thing there (my in-law's parents)
<pitti> but we went back on Saturday evening
<didrocks> ah ok, was a short visit then :)
<pitti> so we spent yesterday with some gardening, and then when the storm/rain started, we just idled, did some reading, and I played Diablo II again :)
<didrocks> heh, nice :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: weird, you have the same thing that I had last week
<didrocks> smspillaz: oh, really?
<smspillaz> yeah, had a really stiff spine last week
<smspillaz> pain to do anything
 * smspillaz wonders if there was something going around in orlando
<Sweetshark> pitti: Fine, thanks. I had some guests and we partied a bit (officially because of my election to deputy director, inoffically because it is fun). And I am getting to old for this, leaving the flat at midnight to continue on the Kiez ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: heh, I symphatize; back then I usually got home when it was light outside again, but these days I just fall asleep around 2 on a Saturday night :(
<Sweetshark> well, on the reeperbahn there are some clubs that open when everyone else closes to keep people partying until the others open again, so they can continue there ...
<Sweetshark> ... great for drugged up technocrowd that run around like duracellbunnies.
<pitti> hehe
<pitti> but when it gets late, I also either need to go home or go dancing; just sitting and drinking doesn't work any more
<didrocks> rickspencer3: hey, I think that you wanted to assign the dx team for the compiz bug, isn't it? bug #897829
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897829 in compiz "Assigning shortcut to "Move window to workspace X" doesn't ever take effect" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897829
<rickspencer3> didrocks, well, I thought the desktop team might want to hide the option since it doesn't work
<rickspencer3> didrocks, but just reassign as desired
<didrocks> rickspencer3: sorry, read ccsm :)
<didrocks> not g-c-c
<didrocks> yeah, you're right, or maybe I can bind the key to a compiz one, let me check
<rickspencer3> didrocks, you don't *have* to respond
<chrisccoulson> good morning desktop team
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hum, my connection is laggy today it seems :-( took me a while to connect to IRC and reading imap on the canonical imap is slow
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, pitti, seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<pitti> Sweetshark: could you please upload a new openoffice.org  which doesn't build openoffice.org-base on armel?
<pitti> Sweetshark: it only exists on amd64, i386, powerpc
<pitti> Sweetshark: or alternatively, is the absence of libreoffice-base on armel a bug or can't it work on armel for some reason?
<pitti> Sweetshark: I'll just fix oo.o
<rodrigo_> hello
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<pitti> Sweetshark: does http://paste.ubuntu.com/760293/ look ok to you?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, looking good
<pitti> Sweetshark: ok, hanks
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> "<Np237> mbiebl, is it really wise to switch to totem 3.2 in this situation?
<seb128> <jordi> Np237: looks bad, here at least.
<seb128> <Np237> Do we need to package totem 3.0 as totem-fallback too? o_O"
<seb128> \o/ for not jumping on the clutter based version ;-)
<pitti> seb128: :)
<rodrigo_> lunch, bbl
<seb128> pitti, there is https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/nautilus/ubuntu-fix-lp-795708/+merge/84370 on version if you feel like doing desktop sponsoring ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, please :)
<seb128> that's likely a good candidate for a sru as well
<pitti> didrocks: ok for me to do https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/compiz-plugins-main/fix-sru-regressions-2/+merge/83590, or do you want to handle compiz-y stuff yourself?
<pitti> seb128: so these don't appear on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ :(
<seb128> pitti, no, because there are against a team vcs
<didrocks> pitti: just check that there are tests for both in trunk at least as we will need to copy c-p-m to precise and tests for compiz is part of the requirements
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: can we please not block those sru regression fixes on precise work?
<didrocks> if we don't have to push the SRU to precise, it's fine
<didrocks> otherwise, we really can't push it
<seb128> it's already embarassing enough that we broken those and didn't fix them in over a month of time
<didrocks> agreed, but I asked confirmation about "not pushing anything not tested in precise", even if it's to fix a SRU, so if pitti agrees that it's only pushed to oneiric and not precise, that would be possible
 * didrocks is between a rock and a hard place for this :/
<pitti> didrocks: ok for me, but really unusual
<didrocks> pitti: thanks Martin :)
<xclaesse> seb128, empathy package does not seems to install mcp-account-manager-goa.so
<xclaesse> it should go to /usr/lib/mission-control-plugins.0/
<xclaesse> in precise
<xclaesse> also I guess it needs to do some magic to make apparmor let mission-control load that plugin
<xclaesse> because just installing it manually doesn't work
<jdstrand> xclaesse: if this is in the default install, please file a bug and assign it to me
<xclaesse> jdstrand, copied package into a oneiric ppa
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<seb128> xclaesse, you better ping kenvandine about empathy packaging issues, he's the one doing most of the packaging work on it
<xclaesse> seb128, ok thx :)
<kenvandine> i can fix that
<xclaesse> kenvandine, cool, thanks :)
<kenvandine> np
<xclaesse> kenvandine, FYI that plugin makes MC import accounts setup in gnome-online-account
<xclaesse> so if you have a gtalk account in goa, it gets into empathy automatically
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> xclaesse, what about accounts already in empathy?
<kenvandine> does it detect the dupe?
<xclaesse> no
<xclaesse> you'll just get both
<kenvandine> bummer
<kenvandine> ok
<xclaesse> kenvandine, goa also support facebook accounts (if build with an app secret key) and soon MSN (via XMPP!) as soon as davidz review my patch :)
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> didrocks: I assigned the precise tasks of these two to you, please assign to teh correct person in DX; thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks!
<seb128> om26er, pitti: the compiz sru is screwed :-( how come it doesn't include the fix for bug #876591 which is in the packaging vcs for some weeks?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 876591 in compiz-plugins-main "Ctrl-Alt-KP_9 adjusts window to upper half instead of top right corner (behaves like Ctrl-Alt-KP_8)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876591
<pitti> seb128: oh, we have a bzr for oneiric?
<om26er> seb128, this one https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/compiz-plugins-main/fix-regressions
<om26er> this branch also have the fix for 876591
<seb128> pitti, no, we usually don't create a new serie if precise didn't get a newer version
<pitti> seb128: so you mean s/screwed/incomplete/, or is it actually broken as-is?
<seb128> om26er, how come you didn't propose that one for sponsoring?
<pitti> seb128: we can reject this, and upload that other branch instead, fine for me
<seb128> pitti, no, it just doesn't contain one of the fixes, so incompletes
<pitti> sorry, I didn't check trunk bzr, just the MP
<om26er> it was creating a very big diff like a few thousand lines
<seb128> om26er, you were proposing it against the wrong serie I guess?
<pitti> presumably http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz/compcomm-plugins-main/ubuntu is a custom branch
<pitti> while om26er's MP was against the UDD one
<seb128> pitti, don't bother, we will get the other bug fixed in the next one I guess
<pitti> you can't merge them to each other
<om26er> i cant propose my branch to https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz/compcomm-plugins-main/ubuntu there is no option
<seb128> I will just unsubscribe from the bug meanwhile
<pitti> om26er: no, as I said you can't merge UDD branches against debian/ only ones, and vice versa
<pitti> they are two entirely different things
<om26er> pitti, alright so where should i propose https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/compiz-plugins-main/fix-regressions now?
<pitti> om26er: you can't propose it anywhere else
<pitti> om26er: if you branch from UDD, you have to merge to UDD
<pitti> om26er: i. e. the "correct" way would have been to branch from ~compiz/compcomm-plugins-main/ubuntu, do additional changes there, and propose to merge against that again
<pitti> om26er: but as seb128 said we can get to that patch in the next round
<seb128> pitti, waouh, down to 23, good job (to you and others, 37 was already low, it was around 70 until recently)
<seb128> om26er, or do another merge request just for this one
<seb128> it might be good to get in because ctrl-alt-kp9 seems to be quite visibly broken and we have users who wonder why the 1 liner is still not landing after a month ;-)
<om26er> seb128, sure, I can do that now
<seb128> om26er, thanks
<om26er> pitti, thanks for clearing things :-)
<om26er> seb128, :-)
<jincreator> pitti: Hi, are you busy now?
<pitti> jincreator: I'm always busy, it's a matter of what I'm busy with :)
<jincreator> pitti: I saw you remove 69-language-selector-ko-kr.conf.
<pitti> jincreator: right, you said it was obsolete as we are using nanum now?
<jincreator> pitti: Yes, but only for when Un fonts is default at Korean font. Sorry for make confusing.
<pitti> jincreator: I thought the hack was for unfonts?
<jincreator> pitti: Yes, it is. But we are trying to change default font from unfonts to fonts-nanum.
<pitti> jincreator: right; so if the hack only applies to unfonts, why do we need it if we are using nanum?
<jincreator> pitti: Because fontconfig-config(and upstream at freedesktop) doesn't have setting for fonts-nanum. I report bug to fontconfig for add it, but it looks lots of time to applied.
<jincreator> So fonts-nanum maintainer(in Debian) add fontconfig snippet to overwrite settings and make fonts-nanum as default font, but it seems not working at latest Ubuntu.
<pitti> jincreator: right, that's the <lang> issue we talked about
<jincreator> pitti: Yes, so if we patch fontconfig-config to add information about fonts-nanum, we can remove 69-language-selector-ko-kr.conf. But I think just modify 69-la... is easier and simple workaround. What do you think about it?
<pitti> jincreator: I think fixing the <lang> bug is better, as it will also unbreak other ttf-* packages
<pitti> jincreator: and NB that language-selector is going away, so we'll need to drop the hacks anyway
<pitti> or at least minimizing them so that we can port them to whatever replacement
<pitti> but <lang> seems like a much better option than these static hacks, as they will be prone to being wrong
<pitti> you might have more than user on a machine, etc. (think universities, etc.)
<jincreator> pitti: You mean language-selector is no more exists at Precise?
<pitti> jincreator: still there, but we have tried to get rid of it for a few cycles now, and rodrigo is almost there now
<pitti> with adding enough functionality to the gnome-control-center module to replace it
<pitti> l-s is quite horrible and unmaintainable code
<jincreator> pitti: Ok, I see. I'll try to find another method to make font-nanum as default Korean fonts without using l-s.
<pitti> jincreator: I thought making <lang> work would do the trick?
<pitti> whatever breaks it, we should just fix that IMHO
<pitti> good night everyone!
<jincreator> pitti: good night!
<didrocks> have a good night pitti :)
<lool> didrocks: Hey, zeitgeist-core used to ship zeitgeist-daemon.pc which unity-lens-files checks for in configure, but it's nowhere in the archive in precise
<lool> didrocks: should we drop the ZEITGEIST_DAEMON test from configure.ac?  it seems unused
<didrocks> lool: that's more than possible that it's not shipped anymore with the new vala zg
<didrocks> mhr3: I think you see both sides of this piece there ^
<mhr3> didrocks, i'm not sure why files lens checked that
<didrocks> lool: let's wait on kamstrup then
<lool> didrocks: Sure; give me a heads up if you want me to upload a packaging fix, but lazy as I am, fixing it upstream would be even nicer  :-)
<didrocks> lool: yeah, I think it's better to directly fix that upstream and less than a burden :)
<mhr3> lool, didrocks, ok, it will be fixed upstream
<didrocks> thanks :)
<lool> mhr3: Thanks
<mhr3> files lens doesn't need the check though
<didrocks> mhr3: I can even propose a merge req if you want :)
<didrocks> mhr3: will be the perfect time to boostrap the file lens automerge
<mhr3> didrocks, merge req for files lens?
<didrocks> yep
<mhr3> didrocks, sure, why not
<didrocks> mhr3: ok, will do that just after the call
<mhr3> it'll fail though :P
<didrocks> because of new libunity?
<mhr3> yes :)
<didrocks> ok, I'll let you do the libunity stuff first :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-06
<robert_ancell> bryceh, hey, thanks for the failsafe X fixes!
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah ended up being something simple (but obscure)
<achiang> if we're on precise, should we expect the lightdm wallpaper to still say 11.10? ;)
<achiang> i want my achievement badge for running alpha, darnit.
<TheMuso> lol
<broder> achiang: i saw an open bug for it some time ago. i think robert_ancell said he was waiting for a new image to drop in
<broder> (around the a1 release, possibly mentioned in #ubuntu-release if you felt like hunting it down)
<achiang> broder: nah, i'm just feeling a little punchy. not terribly important. :)
<achiang> thx
<robert_ancell> broder, achiang, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter/+bug/892394.  We have the image now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 892394 in unity-greeter "Greeter logo needs to be updated for 12.04" [Medium,Triaged]
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<TheMuso> Ok, an update from the last 24 hours or so seems to have broken X for me, both on intel and nouveau... I get Xorg failsafe...
<TheMuso> I am currently in oneiric.
<pitti> TheMuso: eek
<TheMuso> Yeah
<pitti> TheMuso: did you get a new kernel?
<pitti> hm, we didn't release an oneiric kernel yesterday
<TheMuso> pitti: Yes, I did get a new kernel, but the same problem occurs on older kernels. I still have 3.1 for precise installed.
 * TheMuso tries from a cold start, brb.
<TheMuso> Ok same thing, I got some logs to look at.
<TheMuso> Hrm, this at the end of the log: [    80.486]  ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log
<TheMuso> Weird. No errors or warnings in the log.
<TheMuso> I might have to go back and get dmesg.
<pitti> TheMuso: could you do grep 'configure ' /var/log/dpkg.log
<pitti> TheMuso: and only take the parts from your last upgrade?
<pitti> and pastebin this?
<TheMuso> pitti: If I can recognise the different upgrades, ok.
<pitti> TheMuso: according to the timestamp, I mean
<pitti> TheMuso: just take everything since roughly the time of the upgrade, or a bit before
<TheMuso> Ok I'll just mount the precise root partition.
<TheMuso> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/761272/
<TheMuso> pitti: Ah hang on, I think I know what it may be, nvm.
<pitti> TheMuso: sudo apt-get -f install doesn't say anything?
<TheMuso> I'm playing with some GTK 3 a11y code, and it may be choaking on that for some reason
<pitti> TheMuso: ah
<pitti> the main candidates that I see on your list are procps and kernel otherwise
 * TheMuso nods.
<TheMuso> I'll put GTK back and see if that makes a difference.
<TheMuso> pitti: I think the far more likely candidate is my root filesystem for precise is almost/had no space left when i upgraded. :)
<TheMuso> Thanks to LVM, thats easily solvable.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: hey Rick
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> good morning pitti
<didrocks> seems rick is blocked in a loop (:
<didrocks> waow pitti, early reminder :)
<pitti> didrocks: well, 3.5 hours after getting up is still late :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, you are waking up at 5:30 now, not anymore 6 ?
<pitti> didrocks: well, my wife got up earlier, and I couldn't sleep any more
<didrocks> ok, make sense. Take some break today though :)
<pitti> heh, sure :)
<pitti> in fact, I just kind of did
<didrocks> tea break? ;)
<pitti> packaged new calibre and tried out the new Kindle reader that my mother will get for xmas
<didrocks> ahah :)
<pitti> really a cute thing
<pitti> if only it could read epubs
<pitti> (calibre converts it to mobi)
<didrocks> mobi is an amazon format?
<pitti> I'm not sure, but it's been around for a while
<desrt> pitti: apt-get install rootkit for mom's christmas present? :)
<pitti> I think mobipocket.com started it
<didrocks> yeah, seems amazon has taken it and created its propriatery format from it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-book_formats
<didrocks> hey desrt, up late? :)
<micahg> desrt: calibre wasn't vulnerable on Ubuntu :)
<desrt> didrocks: ya.  can't sleep.
<desrt> dunno why
<didrocks> time to make a dconf release then ;)
 * pitti hugs desrt
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you help the reporter of bug 883585, he has problems to install the package from -proposed.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 883585 in cups "Kubuntu 11.10 -- Network/Local Printers found but cannot print - Unable to get printer status" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883585
<pitti> tkamppeter: looking
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, cups fails to build in precise with
<pitti> cc1plus: warning: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-tautological-compare" [enabled by default]
<pitti> ah, no, just a warning; it just doesn't build with -j4
<pitti> so ignore me
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, so it really fails to build against the new poppler, I'll have a look at porting it
<pitti> tkamppeter: replied to the bug
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<dpm> hey, good morning pitti. We got a late test of oneiric langpacks, would you mind copying the oneiric-proposed zh-hans language pack to oneiric-updates? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
<pitti> dpm: done
<dpm> pitti, excellent, thanks :)
<pitti> dpm: and good morning!
<dpm> :)
<seb128> hey
<pitti> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> pitti, hey, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: I retried glib amd64 built twice, failed so far due to test suite hang
<pitti> seb128: a local build is working mostly fine, except for two things:
<pitti> - eog is uninstallable (conflicts:)
<pitti> - mission-control-5 crashes (i. e. no empathy)
<seb128> pitti, the ppa version should be installable?
<pitti> and apparently it causes some/a lot of packages to FTBFS because now you can only #include <glib.h> and not parts of it
<pitti> e. g. inkscape
<seb128> ok, ricotz mentionned the second one and that he though that could be due to the new glib version (I asked if he had issue with his ppa builds)
<bryceh> erf, inkscape?
<seb128> I never got why they enforce those single include thing
<pitti> bryceh: I'm about to do a no-change upload to build against new poppler (just tested locally); do you have anything else to upload for it?
<seb128> pitti, sorry to give your work with the poppler soname changes
<pitti> seb128: I hope most stuff is just a rebuild; I caught two packages so far which need actual porting
<seb128> pitti, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=644447 has some packages which have issues
<pitti> seb128: that's ok
<ubot2> Debian bug 644447 in poppler "Please update poppler to new released 0.18" [Wishlist,Open]
<seb128> pitti, I talked to the Debian maintainer, he would welcome us sending back to the BTS the builds we fix for poppler 0.18, he's sort of blocking the update in Debian on having fixes available for everything but he didn't have lot of time to work on that recently
<pitti> seb128: yep, will do
<bryceh> pitti, nope go for it
<seb128> pitti, in fact ignore the bug, it only discuss one package, I guess we will have to rebuild stuff and see how it goes
<pitti> ok
<seb128> pitti, fedora switched to 0.18 for f16 so they likely have patches for stuff that didn't build
<pitti> seb128: I'll send them as normal bugs with something like "FTBFS with poppler 0.18" or so
<pitti> hah, pdftoipe was simple
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will keep glib in the ppa for a bit, time to fix at least the t-m-c issue there
<pitti> seb128: I can't install the PPA version as amd64 hasn't built yet :)
<pitti> seb128: so there you fixed the eog conflict?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I uploaded the new eog to the same ppa
<pitti> ah, I see
<pitti> seb128: does empathy/t-m-p work for you on i386?
<seb128> pitti, no, It's indeed buggy, I didn't notice because I'm usually running pidgin
<seb128> pitti, I guess upstream fixed the issue somewhere in git, I will look for a patch
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> pitti, yw, thanks for testing!
<seb128> pitti, http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=gimp.git;a=blob;f=gimp-2.6.11-poppler-0.17.patch;h=86630897ae259f92a9018e40f3865c7a7858eb3a;hb=HEAD
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> hum
<seb128> bug #900515
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 900515 in evince "evince-common conflicts with old evince package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900515
<seb128> mvo, hey, is there anything special required to move conffiles between binaries?
<seb128> the apparmor file was in evince in lucid and is in evince-common in precise
<seb128> we need at least a Replaces but I was wondering if that's enough for a conffile
<pitti> mvo: there's a dpkg maintscript helper for it
<pitti> no, it's not I think
<pitti> the conffile will still belong to the old package as (obsolete)
<seb128> pitti, was that for me?
<pitti> err, yes
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, pitti
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. waiting patiently for coffee to brew :)
<seb128> pitti, hum, are you sure? can the same file be claimed by 2 binaires in the dpkg database?
<pitti> seb128: no; with replaces: it goes to the new package
<pitti> but at least a few months ago conffiles were sticky with the old package
<seb128> pitti, so Replaces is enough?
<pitti> seb128: well, you can just try it
<mvo> seb128: is it the same filename?
<seb128> yeah, I think I will
<seb128> mvo, yes
<pitti> seb128: I don't think it will be, but if you test it and it works, then sure :)
<mvo> seb128: I am not sure if there is a really good way, there is some code in openssh-server from cjwatson that moved a conffile from one package to the other (its from ~2006 or so). not sure if its still needed, but it looks like dpkg-mainainerscript-helper is only about moving it to a new location within the same package
<seb128> ok, I will try
<seb128> the dpkg-maintscript-helper manpage and http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling don't cover that case
<seb128> let me ask on #ubuntu-devel
<pitti> mvo: do you have an idea what could go wrong in bug 850264 ?
<pitti> mvo: would a reduced test case help here?
<pitti> mvo: I'm happy to sit down and produce a small test case, but I guess actually fixing the bug in apt's brain is over my head :(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 850264 in apt "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850264
<pitti> mvo: it seems it prefers taking a foreign architecture package over upgrading the native one or so
 * mvo looks
<mvo> pitti: is this new, i.e. a regression from oneiric? there was a chance in the way provides are handled, maybe thats a sideeffect of this
<pitti> mvo: it could also be in oneiric already, but I guess we haven't really tested lucid->oneiric upgrades a lot
<pitti> mvo: but unknown ATM
<mvo> pitti: right
<mvo> pitti: I hope to make the lucid->precise stuff with multiarch working today, its already working in my PPA
<pitti> mvo: oh, great! that means enabling multi-arch during upgrade, or actually fixing this bug?
<mvo> pitti: multiarch during the upgrade, I'm sure that will uncover some more bugs too :)
<pitti> i. e. is it worth for me spending some time on a small test case for this?
<pitti> ah, apparently "yes" then
<pitti> mvo: we already have a QA test for this (which fails due to that bug)
<pitti> but perhaps QA manually enabled multi-arch there
<pitti> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86753465/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.pdftoipe_20091014-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mvo> pitti: so the qa test is to install skype ? thats pretty nice. I will check what the problem resolver is doing
<pitti> seb128: can it be that the new poppler -dev is missing a libjpeg-dev ?
<pitti> mvo: apparently somethign like that, and then upgrade; but as I said, I'm sure one can reduce that
<seb128> pitti, let me check
<seb128> pitti, I will fix it
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; I'll retry pdftoipe afterwards
<seb128> lol, bug #900649
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 900649 in unity "Azure instead of Cairo for drawings " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900649
<seb128> "The new Mozilla's draw renderer Azure outperforms Cairo on benchmarks."
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's your fault!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> it only outperforms cairo on windows btw
<chrisccoulson> and by a significant margin as well
<chrisccoulson> i think it just wraps around cairo on linux ;)
<pitti> so it clearly must be faster on linux then!
<chrisccoulson> http://www.basschouten.com/blog1.php/comparing-performance-azure-vs-cairo
<Sweetshark> seb128: maybe the reporter meant Microsoft azure? imagine who fast unity could get when rendered in the cloud!
<seb128> hehe
<micahg> seb128: any luck finding out if webkit 1.8 will have gtk2 support?
<seb128> no, upstream were at a hackfest and didn't reply on IRC, I will ask again this week
<micahg> seb128: ok, thanks, I tried to reply to the 1.7.2 announcement asking about it, but got no response either
<seb128> didrocks, hey, what do you mean by "building in the unity-team staging ppa https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging (and will be moved later on the ppa once autopilot bits are plugged in)"?
<seb128> didrocks, i.e what is the "will be moved" bit about?
<didrocks> seb128: basically, packages are uploaded in the "staging" ppa, then autopilot is using this ppa
<didrocks> if autopilot tells "ok", the validated packages will be copied in the "~unity-team/ppa"
<seb128> oh ok, so 2 ppas, gotcha
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<seb128> didrocks, oh, and nice to see things moving, well done!
<seb128> I will try to see if that breaks my 10v ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, let's see ;)
<seb128> (no I didn't volunteer to run your endless suit of manual tests :p)
<seb128> ok, let's annoy some other people :p
<seb128> hum, no kenvandine
<seb128> who is next on my list
<seb128> cyphermox, hey ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, how are you?
<cyphermox> hey
<cyphermox> I'm good
<cyphermox> and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, do you plan to sru the new evo as well? (you did e-d-s but not evo from what I can see)
<seb128> the "spelling errors are underline in yellow" bug is still on our "should be sru-ed" list
<cyphermox> well, I was thinking the color of spelling errors was minor enough, but I can still update it
<seb128> cyphermox, the changelog from the precise upload list several other issues as well
<cyphermox> so I'll do it in a minute, just need to finish something up now ;)
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> stuff like bug #849960 seems like worth a sru
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 849960 in evolution "GMail added through Online Accounts disappears" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849960
<cyphermox> that was a fuckup on my part, my script parsed through the upstream changelog, but some of those bugs were already fixed
<cyphermox> 849960 afaik already made it ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, no need to be "in a minute" or today, I'm just trying to review our desktop oneiric bugslist
<seb128> cyphermox, it seems like it should be easy enough to just push 3.2.2 as a sru but your call
<cyphermox> well, otherwise I'll forget and it will keep being postponed
<cyphermox> yes
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks!
<cyphermox> so finishing an email, and then I'll do it
<didrocks> grrrr, ok, let's forget to make a more clever tarmac patch as any metadata isn't refreshed :/
<dobey> hey didrocks
<didrocks> good morning dobey!
<dobey> how's it going?
<didrocks> dobey: well, busy, tried to add something more in tarmac, but will go on on the next topic, will need to get more time to figure out how to refresh the infos :)
<didrocks> dobey: and you? how are you?
<dobey> good. sprinting this week :)
<didrocks> oh nice, where you are?
<didrocks> are you*
<dobey> buenos aires; sunny and warm :)
<didrocks> waow, enjoy! :-)
<dobey> thanks :)
<kenvandine> dobey, cool!
<dobey> hey kenvandine
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i really should update my laptop
<chrisccoulson> i haven't updated anything other than firefox nightly since i upgraded to precise
<desrt> chrisccoulson: see you on the other side, dude
<desrt> i hope...
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, how are you?
<kenvandine> good
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> seb128, and you?
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, small questions,work for you
<kenvandine> hehe... as always :)
<seb128> - bug #893125 is on the "oneiric potential sru" list, should it stay there? seems an easy fix, not sure if you want to queue it with others
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893125 in gwibber "GIR fails to find shared library" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893125
<seb128> the list being: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-desktop/oneiric.html
<kenvandine> i want to queue it with others
<kenvandine> i plan to do a 3.2.2 SRU this week
<seb128> kenvandine, i'm trying to clean a bit things there, over time it gets less likely we will sru stuff so I try to close some
<seb128> ok, I will keep it on the list then thanks
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> kenvandine, other thing, dunno if you noticed but I uploaded glib 2.31.2 to the ubuntu-desktop ppa yesterday
<seb128> kenvandine, telepathy-mission-control seems to be broken with it though, do you think you would have time to have a look or check if upstream has a fix for glib 2.31 somewhere?
<kenvandine> sure
<seb128> kenvandine, no hurry but we might as well fix stuff in the ppa before moving to precise and be in an hurry to fix stuff then ;-)
<kenvandine> yup
<seb128> kenvandine, if you get a fix feel free to upload to the ppa, we will keep using and testing it for some days
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> pitti_, welcome back!
<kenvandine> np
<pitti_> seb128: thanks; still no server :(
<pitti_> was taking a break
<seb128> pitti_, :-(
<seb128> pitti_, I'm sending extra soname updates to the archive btw, sorry about that
<pitti_> seb128: I'll fight back with everythign I can!
 * pitti_ gets a +5 soname buster weapon
<pitti_> seb128: (just played Diablo 2 for a bit -- I hate hate hate this Duriel guy)
<seb128> pitti_, well the libminiupnop one should be trivial, I uploaded updates,rebuilds for the 2 rdepends in the default install
<seb128> pitti_, lol
<pitti_> 2 rdepends? laughable!
<pitti_> :)
<seb128> yeah ;-)
<pitti_> we are making good progress with the poppler transition
<pitti_> currently looking into why cron.nbs doesn't update
<pitti_> "We now have all unity projects autolanding gracefully and pushed to the staging ppa"
<pitti_> didrocks: !
<seb128> pitti_, if,when you feel like tackling another transition we should merge nautilus on Debian, they renamed the extension lib there during the gtk2->gtk3 transition to reflect that it's an abi break
<seb128> they renamed the binary
<seb128> we should probably catch that before the lts, we didn't do it in oneiric
<pitti_> yeah
<didrocks> pitti_: :)
<didrocks> pitti_: added a note about the merges of the infrastructure changes btw
<pitti_> didrocks: so you found a solution for the unity tests after all?
<pitti_> with the X server?
<pitti_> or doing integration tests in a real live system now?
<didrocks> pitti_: some are working with it, some other (hang) has been disabled right now :/
<didrocks> and doing integration tests on a live system starts to trigger with autopilot
<didrocks> but unfortunatly, I have to chase people for getting the right access, and now, I'm looking at how evan's work has been done
<pitti_> nice to see branches landing now
<pitti_> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: no agenda items on the wiki; anythign to discuss?
<pitti_> didrocks: should the desktop team use the unity PPA now for dogfooding?
<didrocks> pitti_: I would say not yet, wait on autopilot running
<seb128> nothing to discuss, I would encourage those on precise to test glib 2.31 which is in the desktop ppa since today
<seb128> that's aiming to land in precise soon
<chrisccoulson> i will upgrade in a bit :)
<mterry> none here, just working on deja-dup/duplicity test suites
<kenvandine> pitti_, nothing from me
<seb128> the eog version in the ppa is required if you don't want eog to hang
<pitti_> kenvandine: nothing from partner?
<seb128> empathy is broken but kenvandine said he will look at the issue with telepathy-mission-control
<kenvandine> pitti_, i am working on that for the wiki now
<agateau> pitti_: nothing from me
<pitti_> kenvandine: do you know whether they are working on providing an RB music store?
<pitti_> agateau: how is it going for you these days?
<kenvandine> it's planned, i'll find out when to expect that
<kenvandine> dobey, ^^
<mterry> Is "gksudo ls" crashing for anyone else?
<agateau> pitti_: quite well, thanks, working on checkbox with didrocks and lightdm
<pitti_> mterry: oh, indeed
<mterry> pitti_, weird, I'll file a bug
<pitti_> mterry: hang on
<pitti_> FYI, apport retracers are currently broken
<pitti_> on my TODO for tomorrow morning
<mterry> k
<mterry> seb128, should I be living in the desktop PPA during precise then?
<pitti_> mterry: it's bug 898874
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898874 in gksu "gksu crashed with SIGSEGV in __strlen_ia32()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898874
<mterry> pitti_, cool, thx
<pitti_> does anyone fancy looking into this?
<pitti_> if not, I can have a look
<seb128> mterry, good question, we never well defined how we use the ppa, but it's usually staging stuff aimed at being uploaded soon to the archive, so "yes" ;-)
<pitti_> incidentally, it's also the bug which breaks teh retracers :)
<mterry> seb128, is that PPA now standard-operating-procedure for uploads, or just especially risky ones?
<pitti_> mterry: only for risky ones
<mterry> cool
<seb128> mterry, what pitti_ said
<pitti_> in particular, we can't do binary copies from this, so it's not thatuseful for staging transitions
<mterry> mm
 * pitti_ duplicates twenty more dupes to bug 182629 and writes a bug pattern
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 182629 in gksu "gksu crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_window_set_opacity()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182629
<pitti_> that seems to be another high-profile crasher, and ages old
<pitti_> (but recent duplicates)
<pitti_> hm, we are down to two rdepends of gksu
<pitti_> checkbox-gtk and update-notifier
<pitti_> mvo: ^ I suppose update-notifier needs that for calling update-manager and apport as root? or does update-manager have polkit support now?
<seb128> pitti_, can't we just us pkexec as a workaround?
<pitti_> seb128: for some things, yes (we need to add a .policy there)
<pitti_> for stuff like apport hooks it's a little tricker as they can run pretty much anything
<pitti_> I need to think about how to drop the usage from apport with pkexec
<seb128> pitti_, update-notifier won an aptdaemon backend in Oneiric iirc
<pitti_> but for calling apport pkexec should work fine
<pitti_> ok, added 3 bug patterns for the worst gksu crashers and duped all teh bugs
<pitti_> and restarted retracer
<seb128> pitti_, seems like update-notifier mostly needs gksu for calling ubuntu-bug
<pitti_> ./data/backend_helper.py:        return _install_all_updates_gksu()
<pitti_> so that part is now obsolete?
<pitti_> ./data/dbus-helper:    gksudo --message "<b>$2</b>" -- "$1"
<pitti_> and this stuff?
<seb128> pitti_,
<seb128>     if HAVE_APTDAEMON:
<seb128>         return _install_all_updates_aptdaemon()
<seb128>     else:
<seb128>         return _install_all_updates_gksu()
<seb128> pitti_, for the first one
<seb128> dbus-helper doesn't seem used
<seb128> pitti_, I think (but to be confirmed by mvo) that it's only for apport that gksu is needed
<pitti_> nice, that seems easy to fix then
<seb128> like all the package management stuff can be done with the aptdaemon backend
<pitti_> ok, time to stop for today
<pitti_> good night everyone!
<seb128> pitti_, 'night!
<kenvandine> good night pitti_
<ricotz> kenvandine, hi
<ricotz> kenvandine, do you know of problems with telepathy-mission-control-5 5.10? 5.9.1 works fine for me with g-s and empathy, but 5.10 crashes
<kenvandine> ricotz, nope
<kenvandine> working fine here
<kenvandine> ricotz, maybe the g-s approver thing is crashing it?
<kenvandine> not sure where that lives
<ricotz> yeah, could be g-s causing it
<seb128> ricotz, is that using glib 2.31 or 2.30?
<ricotz> using 2.31
<ricotz> 5.9.1 works though
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ it's the glib 2.31 issue I mentioned before, you still run 2.30 right?
<seb128> ricotz, I've uploaded 2.31.2 to the ubuntu-desktop ppa to get testing before going to precise btw
<ricotz> seb128, could you push it to the gnome3-ppa too?
<seb128> that issue got raised by other people today
<ricotz> to replace the older 2.31.0 version
<ricotz> seb128, ok, so maybe a regression
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> i am going to be looking at that in a few
<ricotz> seb128, i will copy the package
<seb128> ricotz, oh, I just did it
<seb128> ricotz, eog as well
<seb128> which has the fix for the hang
<ricotz> alright ;)
<seb128> ricotz, why did you do a no change upload of mx to your ppa btw?
<ricotz> libcogl6 transition
<seb128> ricotz, I mentioned it before but we would welcome you asking for sponsoring for stuff like pango or vala or vala-0.16
<seb128> rather than doing the work once in your ppa to have somebody else redoing it in the archive
<ricotz> i know, sorry
<seb128> ricotz, it's not like you couldn't find a sponsor here ;-)
<seb128> ricotz, btw I uploaded rhythmbox using your ppa version, thanks for the work on it ;-)
<xclaesse> kenvandine, hi. did you already made a fix for the empathy package to ship the MC plugin ?
<ricotz> seb128, i noticed, thanks
<seb128> yw ;-)
<kenvandine> xclaesse, just uploaded it a few minutes ago
<xclaesse> cool
<kenvandine> thx for pointing it out
<ricotz> seb128, btw the multiarch patch of gnome-disk-utility broke gdu-notification-daemon.desktop
<seb128> ricotz, in which way?
<ricotz> it looks in the wrong patch
<ricotz> on sec
<ricotz> it looks for "usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdu-notification-daemon" rather than "/usr/lib/gnome-disk-utility/gdu-notification-daemon"
<seb128> ricotz, thanks
<seb128> I will have a look if slangasek doesn't beat me to it
<dobey> kenvandine: soon
<kenvandine> seb128, ricotz: mission-control is missing schemas
 * kenvandine is fixing
<seb128> kenvandine, is that the issue or another one you spotted while looking at it?
<kenvandine> i think that is the issue
<kenvandine> not sure why it doesn't need the schema with glib 2.30
<seb128> great
<seb128> oh
<seb128> that would be because desrt restored the abort on missing schemas in 2.31 ;-)
<kenvandine> ah!
<seb128> glib that is
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> love that... grrrr
<kenvandine> but it uncovered this problem :)
<seb128> well his point is that it makes issues obvious
<seb128> he's sort of right there :p
<kenvandine> he always is...
<seb128> ;-)
<ricotz> ;-)
<ricotz> every package should have list-missing ;)
<kenvandine> indeed
<seb128> ricotz, did you open bugs upstream for the tests you commented in glib to workaround the hangs btw?
<ricotz> seb128, i mentioned it, but he is aware of it but doesnt really want to fix it, this is only caused running it on old kernels
<seb128> ok
<ricotz> and the builder kernel is really old, are there no intentions to update them?
<kenvandine> seb128, ricotz: fix uploaded to precise
<ricotz> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> np
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> ricotz: --fail-missing rather I would say :)
<ricotz> didrocks, yeah, but this wont work with some multiarched stuff :\
<didrocks> ricotz: you can rm before calling dh_install if you are sure about what to remove
<ricotz> didrocks, i see ;)
<didrocks> that's what I basically do in all my packages
<seb128> didrocks, do you have any objection to move the gnome-session Depends on unity | unity-2d | gnome-shell (>= 3.0) to a Recommends?
<seb128> or any good reason to not do it?
<seb128> dobey opened a bug saying he should be able to use gnome-session with his own desktop environment, which seems a fair request ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: no objection at all, seems reasonable :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<didrocks> time for dinner, see you tomorrow guys!
<bryceh> smspilla1, heya, I sent a mail but it seems to have bounced.  Got another email address?
<bryceh> <smspillaz@martello.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>... Deferred: Connection timed out with martello.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au.
<bryceh> Message could not be delivered for 5 days
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, trying to create breakpad symbols from system libraries on all architectures in an automated way is a real PITA
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what is needed?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, my original plan was that i would create symbols as part of the firefox build, but that doesn't work unless i start modifying packages to create -dbg packages (as the firefox build can't use anything from the ddebs archive)
<chrisccoulson> so i'm trying to create them separately without modifying any packages
<chrisccoulson> but the google tool to create the symbols only works on binaries compiled on the same arch as the tool
<chrisccoulson> which is a bit of a pain
<chrisccoulson> so i'm trying to fix that, but i'm basically just forking breakpad to try and make it work ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's turning out to be a lot more work that i originally planned
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can't you just use a pbuilder somewhere with a ddeb source?
<chrisccoulson> possibly. i'm currently doing it without pbuilder and have it working on 1 arch (amd64)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, i think i have another idea
<chrisccoulson> i could actually pull the debug symbols from ddebs on chinstrap, make a source package out of them and upload them to a PPA with breakpad
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm
<chrisccoulson> that wouldn't work on armel though :/
<chrisccoulson> i guess it would be good enough to work on amd64/i386 for now though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well you could ask for a non virtual ppa ... and is firefox working on armel and having actual users there?
<chrisccoulson> good question :)
<chrisccoulson> i think amd64/i386 would be good enough
<seb128> gut feeling: you wouldn't loose much by not supporting armel debug symbols
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> slangasek, hey
<chrisccoulson> then i can use my existing script which is used for uploading the firefox symbols to upload the new distro-symbols
<chrisccoulson> i think that would work
<slangasek> seb128: hi there
<seb128> slangasek, your gnome-disk-utility multiarch port has a bug, do you have time to look at it or should I try to add it to my todolist? ;-)
<slangasek> seb128: I suppose I can take time out from breaking other packages for multiarch to look :)
<seb128> slangasek, ok, great ;-)
<seb128> so
<seb128> slangasek, you made the gnome-disk-utility.install move stuff from /usr/lib/*/gdu* to /usr/lib/gnome-disk-utility but /etc/xdg/autostart/gdu-notification-daemon.desktop still references to the multiarch dir
<seb128> slangasek, do you want a bug report about it?
<slangasek> seb128: nah, I'll take it from there
<seb128> slangasek, thanks
<slangasek> seb128: fixed & uploading
<seb128> slangasek, thanks! (did you update the Debian bug, just to make sure pitti picks the fix when he does the update in Debian)
<slangasek> seb128: I'll do that next
<seb128> excellent ;-)
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso RAOF bryceh and robert_ancell, don't forget to update wiki with your weeks highlights and add any agenda items if needed. http://memeburn.com/2011/12/steve-jobs-being-an-asshole-is-okay-when-youre-a-genius/
<jasoncwarner_> i mean...woops
<jasoncwarner_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-12-06
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, stop pinging robert_ancell when he's not online ;-)
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Done.
<jasoncwarner_> seb128: it's part of my aussie autokey ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> seb128: looks like it worked
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, what?
<desrt> 16:54 < seb128> jasoncwarner_, stop pinging robert_ancell when he's not online ;-)
<desrt> 16:57 -!- robert_ancell [~bob@ppp121-44-205-22.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> oh
<seb128> it was not summoning him, it was pinging about something he was not there to read ;-)
<robert_ancell> desrt, I felt a great disturbance in the force at 08:54
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, hide, I'm not sure jasoncwarner_ saw you yet :p
<desrt> robert_ancell: good morning
<jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell :) just reminding people to put their stuff up on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-12-06 for the week and to make agenda items if they have any
<seb128> chrisccoulson, stop flooding the precise desktop list with firefox testsuit issues :p
<desrt> robert_ancell: actually, he originally told you that he thinks you're an asshole, but it's okay because you're also a genius
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i thought it would be a good idea to start tracking individual failures until i realized how many there are
<chrisccoulson> then i realized it wasn't a good idea ;)
<seb128> hehe
<robert_ancell> desrt, then I make a good open-source hacker :)
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso RAOF bryceh and robert_ancell no agenda items, so no meeting. cheers.
<robert_ancell> \o/
<desrt> :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw is there any progress on fixing the session handling issue and the a11y gsettings one? and the tb preferences not fitting on a netbook screen?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, they are all on the oneiric list, I wondering if it makes sense to keep them there
<chrisccoulson> seb128, they're on my list ;)
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, seems like meetings handling are efficient nowadays ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i have no idea how i'm going to fix these reftest failures that only have 1 pixel incorrect
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, oneiric is mostly over, you still aim to fix them there?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, any fixes which land upstream will end up in oneiric at some point
<robert_ancell> RAOF, bryceh, so I was looking at xtest - it's pretty basic
<seb128> that's true
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah
<robert_ancell> bryceh, I love the snprintf test.  Really starting at the bottom :)
<bryceh> heh
<bryceh> yeah I think xtest is legacy from the annals of history or something
<bryceh> don't think the X guys even consider improving it to be worth the effort
<bryceh> robert_ancell, they've been putting together  a new xserver test suite though, which is located in xserver's test/ dir, and can be invoked via 'make check'
<robert_ancell> bryceh, is that the stuff like "input.c"?
<bryceh> robert_ancell, it only tests a few really specific chunks of code, so not really a general purpose test
<bryceh> robert_ancell, that's correct
<robert_ancell> bryceh, yeah, that one looks quite comprehensive
<bryceh> the current git tree has added several more things
<bryceh> fixes.c  input.c  list.c  misc.c  string.c  xfree86.c  xi2/  xkb.c  xtest.c
<TheMuso> 8/c
<smspilla1> bryceh: oh, eh, my stupid mail client
<smspilla1> bryceh: sometimes it decides my local hostname would be a better for for the from: field
<bryceh> smspilla1, ouch
<toddnine>  Any ideas why google chrome doesn't appear in the list of browsers to make my default browser?  I've tried configuring it from the command line as well.  It shows it's set as the default option, but it's not the browser that loads when I click on a link.  It's always FF
<toddnine> Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Since chrome is my primary development browser, it's a pain to always have to manually copy/paste URLs that are IM'ed to me
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-07
<pitti_> good morning
<jbicha> pitti_: howdy
<pitti_> hey jbicha, how are you?
<jbicha> I'm fine, staying busy :)
<jbicha> I was wondering about the status of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-freerdp
<jbicha> maybe that's not the right blueprint...
<jbicha> ah, it's in the default apps one, never mind
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti_> hey didrocks
<pitti_> didrocks: how are you?
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti_
<didrocks> pitti_: finding again some mobility of my neck. Not healed 100%, but way better ;) and you?
<pitti_> I'm glad it wasn't somethign serious
<pitti_> I'm quite fine, just my server isn't
<pitti_> still without email and IRC proxy
 * pitti_ is glad about http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html still being empty
<micahg> pitti_: what gets tested there ATM?
<pitti_> micahg: uninstallable packages in main
<pitti_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/precise_probs.html is the equivalent for ports (armhf and powerpc)
<rickspencer3> pitti_, I guess we don't really need +1 maintenance, considering that this list is always empty:
<rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html
<rickspencer3> j/k
<pitti_> rickspencer3: we do! which other excuse do I have to play Diablo II all day?
<rickspencer3> pitti_, I can't really argue with that one
<pitti_> rickspencer3: our current target is bringing http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html to zero, FYI
<rickspencer3> pitti_, zero ftbs for the whole archive?
<pitti_> rickspencer3: no, that's NBS (not built from source), i. e. library transitions, package renames, etc.
<pitti_> rickspencer3: wendar is working on FTBFS, but fixing them all will still take a bit
<pitti_> (James and I will join at some point)
<rickspencer3> I se
<rickspencer3> e
<didrocks> that's great to see the +1 team working that well! Well done pitti :)
<pitti_> heh, thanks :)
<pitti_> didrocks: it's fun to spend hours to make the reports much more useful and then driving them to zero so that you don't see the improvements :)
<pitti_> well, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is still useful
<didrocks> pitti_: indeed, it's quite ironic in the end :)
<didrocks> oh didn't see this svg
<didrocks> and it's linked to bugs, excellent!
<pitti_> didrocks: the .txt variant now has links to MIR bugs and (MAIN) tags as well
<didrocks> pitti_: great, and if we file a MIR, we need to file this file as well or is there a parser looking for bugs where MIR team is subscribed?
<pitti_> didrocks: the latter
<pitti_> didrocks: it looks for source package bugs where ~ubuntu-mir is subscribed
<didrocks> nice :)
<didrocks> and for demotion?
<didrocks> like nothing depending on foo, needs to be pushed back to universe
<didrocks> how it is represented in the graph?
<pitti_> didrocks: the .txt file has some more details, it shows all MIR bugs (and their title unless  it starts with '[MIR]', the .svg only shows the first found bug
<pitti_> didrocks: the graph only has source/binary universe->main
<didrocks> ok
<pitti_> the rest is just a list, so the .txt file is fine
<pitti_> I don't see how to usefully represent this in a graph
<didrocks> so, the txt for the rest :)
<pitti_> but source/binary -> main is the one which requires most work and MIRs, etc.
<didrocks> yeah, that was my question
<didrocks> seems you have fun writing those tools :)
<pitti_> oh, absolutely!
<didrocks> nice improvments
<pitti_> didrocks: it also bothered me that _probs.html only said "foo is uninstallable" and then showing you the finger and say "go figure why" :)
<pitti_> didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/precise_probs.html shows the improvements there
<didrocks> openoffice.org-common: Depends: libreoffice-common (>= 1:3.3.0~rc4-2) but it is not going to be installed
<didrocks> so then, we need to look at libreoffice-common
<pitti_> didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/precise_probs.html
<pitti_> didrocks: that was a snapshot when I was working on it, showing it better
<pitti_> didrocks: right, testing-ports is now just buildd lag for armhf's gcc and libreoffice FTBFS
<pitti_> didrocks: that's why it shows pending builds
<didrocks> oh, excellent!
<pitti_> didrocks: so on the pitti/tmp one, you see why libxsltc-java-gcj is uninstallable
<pitti_> the dependency version doesn't match, and i386 FTBFS is why
<didrocks> exactly what we need as well in soyuz :)
<didrocks> and, the why is before the text,
<pitti_> writing those tools is so much fun :)
<pitti_> uploading a gazillion packages for actually fixing the problems less so, but driving lists to zero is still satisfying
<didrocks> indeed, I can imagine :)
<didrocks> nice work, I think precise_probs.html will be really useful when a buildd is failing
<baptistemm> hi
<pitti_> bonjour baptistemm
<baptistemm> hey pitti_
<didrocks> salut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut didrocks, comment ca va ?
<didrocks> baptistemm: j'ai presque retrouvÃ© la mobilitÃ© de mon cou, donc Ã§a va beaucoup mieux merci! et toi?
<xclaesse> (process:15905): mc-plugins-DEBUG: loader.c:167 g_module_open (/usr/lib/mission-control-plugins.0/mcp-account-manager-goa.so, ...) = /usr/lib/mission-control-plugins.0/mcp-account-manager-goa.so: failed to map segment from shared object: Permission denied
<xclaesse> thanks apparmor
<baptistemm> I'm a little bit tired, but apart from that I'm okay
<rodrigo_> hello
<pitti_> rickspencer3: in case you get another heart attack when looking at jenkins: it's bug 894768 again
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 894768 in linux "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894768
<seb128> hey there
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti_
<pitti_> bonjour seb128
<pitti_> hey rodrigo_
<pitti_> seb128: ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti, rodrigo_
<seb128> pitti_, I'm good thanks
<rickspencer3> dang pitti_ I hope we get that one fixed soon
<rickspencer3> I would love to see a block of green
<pitti_> rickspencer3: see current #u-devel
<pitti_> rickspencer3: hope just raised a lot :)
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> pitti_, what do you think about uploading the new glib to the archive today?
<pitti_> seb128: we got through most of the poppler transition now, just http://cgit.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/commit/?id=149b7fec4 really sucks
<seb128> we can't let precise start working great
<pitti_> lol
<seb128> we need to break some stuff to keep rickspencer3 busy :p
<pitti_> seb128: do we have a solution for the empathy crash?
<rickspencer3> seb128, what would you think about working with the QA team to do some kind of pre-archive test of the new glib?
<seb128> pitti_, it was missing schemas in the .install, the new glib abort on those again, ken fixed in precise yesterday
<rickspencer3> maybe they could do a special spin and run some tests to see what breaks? it would be a nice experiment
<pitti_> it would certainly make an excellent showcase for the "staging area/run all tests against that", but I don't think we have it yet
<pitti_> seb128: aah
<pitti_> nice
<pitti_> seb128: no objection from me then, it works quite well here
<seb128> rickspencer3, glib has a pretty solid testsuit and we did team test this update on the ubuntu-desktop, but I would be happy to land that work to qa for next time ;-)
<pitti_> seb128: it'll cause some packages to FTBFS due to the stricter #include <glib.h> requirement, of course
<seb128> pitti_, well, better earlier than later...
<rickspencer3> seb128, right, the purpose would be to see if we can find what else breaks with the new glib
<rickspencer3> rather than finding it out by breaking things in the development release, finding it out by testing
<pitti_> seb128: yes, absolutely
<micahg> seb128: well, armhf has 4k packages to go, you can get a partial rebuild test still :)
<pitti_> micahg: right :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, who do you recommend I talk to in the qa team about that?
<rickspencer3> seb128, hmmm, gema?
<seb128> ok, will do that
<rickspencer3> seb128, it may be as pitti says, a good idea, but they are not ready
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks for the suggestion
<seb128> rickspencer3, yeah, I assume it's non trivial and that will not be set for it yet but let's see
<seb128> rickspencer3, it might be a good case to push that forward and get the infrastructure starting
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti_> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti_
<seb128> pitti_, I'm good thanks
<seb128> pitti_, is there many softwares using that poppler gdk api?
<pitti_> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html the libpoppler-glib6 section
<pitti_> seb128: that's pretty much it, we did all the rest
<pitti_> seb128: plus gimp (but that got fixed yesterday)
<pitti_> seb128: so we'll need to copy that removed code into these 5 packages instead, plus change the build system to check for/link against cairo, etc.
<pitti_> and gdk
<seb128> pitti_, nothing left in main, great, do you work on universe as well?
<pitti_> seb128: yes, everything
<pitti_> seb128: james and I will deal with it
<seb128> oh ok, I though focus was main
<seb128> but fair enough ;-)
<pitti_> seb128: it wasn't meant as a blame towards you, just towards upstream ;)
<seb128> pitti_, seems fedora took the opposite approch
<seb128> they just dropped some of those stuff as "not maintained upstream"
<pitti_> seb128: no, the gimp patch is just like that
<pitti_> it basically copies the function into the patch
<pitti_> seb128: oh, you mean for some other packages; yes, dropping them is still an option of course
<tkamppeter> pitti_, thanks for making pdftoopvp building with Poppler 0.18.x. I have upstreamized your patch now.
<pitti_> tkamppeter: oh, thanks
<pitti_> tkamppeter: the one I applied directly should be fine for upstream; the debian/patches/ubuntu/poppler one can go there as well, if they only want to support 0.18
<tkamppeter> pitti_, I have applied the changes on the pdftoopvp source code upstream. What do you mean with debian/patches/ubuntu/poppler? There is no such directory in the CUPS package.
<pitti_> tkamppeter: debian/patches/ubuntu/poppler-0.18.patch
<pitti_> tkamppeter: it's conditionally applied in Ubuntu only, as Debian still has poppler 0.16; and this change only works with 0.18
<tkamppeter> pitti_, I have "bzr pull"ed the CUPS package and do not have a file named debian/patches/ubuntu/poppler-0.18.patch.
<pitti_> tkamppeter: whoops, sorry; please pull again
<tkamppeter> pitti_, do I have to apply this patch upstream, too, so that pdftoopdf actually builds upstream?
<tkamppeter> s/upstream/under Poppler 0.18.x/
<pitti_> tkamppeter: that's the tricky question; without the patch, it builds with poppler 0.16; with the patch it builds with poppler 0.18
<pitti_> tkamppeter: 0.18 is the current stable version, so I'd say "apply it", but I don't know whether upstream has some target dependency versions there
<pitti_> that stuff is easier with poppler-glib, you have feature test macros
<pitti_> but with pure poppler you'd need to do your own version test macros; but probably not worth the trouble
<tkamppeter> pitti_, another reason to prefer Ghostscript as PDF renderer.
<pitti_> tkamppeter: heh, fun; a few years ago it was the other way round :)
<pitti_> seb128: ok, that libgksu crash is easy
<pitti_> it's so glazingly obvious, I wonder how upstream could have missed that
<pitti_> *phew*
<seb128> pitti_, is it new? I had the impression libgksu didn't change in years
<seb128> or is the precise toolchain exposing an old bug in some way?
<pitti_> seb128: well, it was aggravated by the -Wformat-security changes
<pitti_> anyway, rather uninteresting, I'll just upload the fix
<seb128> pitti_, \o/
<pitti_> oh, it's in pkg-gnome, nice
<pitti_> let's see how much we can merge/sync
<pitti_> OMG we have millions of patches
<pitti_> lool merged it just a week ago
<pitti_> with all sorts of bling
<pitti_> ok, I'll just fix it in both places then
<seb128> pitti_, yeah, gksu and libgksu are crazy
<seb128> pitti_, btw did you tag your poppler-0.18 bugs in the bts or do you have a list?
<pitti_> seb128: not tagged
<seb128> pitti_, I think I will send my 0.18 update debdiff to the bts today, I would like to point also to your patches
<pitti_> seb128: in fact, 6 of the bug creations are still in my local postfix queue
<pitti_> seb128: but I CC'ed the original bug which asks for the update
<seb128> the debian maintainer was mostly blocked on having fixes available, I think we have enough to get things moving
<pitti_> HRMPF #(*$#*($ need my server back
<seb128> pitti_, ok, I will send my poppler debdiff and say that you will follow with pointers to the fixes you work on
<seb128> pitti_, works for you?
<pitti_> seb128: once my server comes back, the remainign bugs will be sent, and we have a complete list
<pitti_> seb128: sounds good
<seb128> pitti_, excellent, thanks
<seb128> with some luck they pick it up and we can be back in sync for most of those soon
<pitti_> seb128: would you mind sending a mail to the team that I'm without email since yesterday afternoon? I hope they'll fix it today
<pitti_> seb128: to platform@ perhaps
<pitti_> not that anyone waits for somethign urgent
<seb128> pitti_, ok
<pitti_> RAOF: nice that David accepted your .owner polkit patch; that should make the colord package much nicerr
<pitti_> seb128: merci
<tkamppeter> pitti, poppler-0.18 patch is upstreamized now, too.
<tkamppeter> pitti_, ^^ and thanks for fixing this.
<pitti_> tkamppeter: great, thanks
<pitti_> seb128: FYI, retracers are back since this morning
<seb128> pitti_, I noticed from my emails, thanks ;-)
<pitti_> ah, you people who get emails..
<pitti_> . o O { how long can it take to re-sync a RAID!?! }
<seb128> lol
<seb128> pitti_, it took less time for the launchpad librarian :p
<seb128> pitti_, email sent to the platform team about your lack of email btw
<pitti_> cheers
<pitti_> I mean, not having mails has probably doubled my productivity yesterday and today :)
<pitti_> but I do miss it for some things
<pitti_> and I'll spend half a day to catch up
<seb128> pitti_, btw did you see that I Cced you on an g-s-d,suspend,hotkey bug recently?
<seb128> where recently is a week or so
<pitti_> seb128: bug 868358
<pitti_> yes, I did
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868358 in gnome-settings-daemon "hibernate key (fn + 12) triggers suspend on ThinkPad X200s" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868358
<seb128> ok, great
<pitti_> it's yelling at me every day
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> I just wanted to make sure you noticed it, I think xev is the wrong tools there
<seb128> I figured you know better about those stuff and that it will be easier to ask you rather than trying to figure it
<pitti_> seb128: yes, that's fine
<pitti_> seb128: was a nice opportunity to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Troubleshooting to the current world :)
<seb128> pitti_, ;-)
<seb128> nice
<pitti_> didrocks: who would be a good person to look at bug 897829?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 897829 in compiz "Assigning shortcut to "Move window to workspace X" doesn't ever take effect" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897829
<didrocks> pitti_: otp, one sec
<pitti_> didrocks: (not urgent at all)
<didrocks> pitti_: I guess it's a duplicate, but yes please, assign it to me, I'll dup it then
<pitti_> didrocks: okay, thanks
<seb128> pitti_, we should depends on python-gi rather than python-gobject for stuff that use gtk3 right?
<pitti_> seb128: correct
<pitti_> same for -cairo-gi
<seb128> pitti_, you might want to send an email about it to ubuntu-devel (desktop?) about it (once you get emails back)
<seb128> pitti_, I noticed because I follow up #debian-gnome mostly, I guess it would be an "useful to know" for others
<pitti_> seb128: I actually thought we already fixed most of the rdepends; but yes, I'll do that
<seb128> pitti_, well, I just ran into the question for rhythmbox yesterday
<seb128> totem is likely in the same case (will look at it today)
<seb128> pitti_, thanks
<TheMuso> +/c
<pitti_> seb128: mail composed, waiting in my local postfix now :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti_> seb128: bug-buddy was removed in Debian: ROM; obsolete, dead upstream; Debian bug #645646
<ubot2> Debian bug 645646 in ftp.debian.org "RM: bug-buddy -- ROM; obsolete, dead upstream" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/645646
<pitti_> seb128: we have a newer version (2.30.0+dfsg-1 vs. 2.31.92-0ubuntu4)
<pitti_> but still, should we follow suit?
<pitti_> I think yes, but would like to confirm
<pitti_> no rdepends
 * pitti_ kills it, will take the bullets
<rodrigo_> has anyone used brasero to burn a video dvd? it doesn't seem to work here at all :(
<seb128> pitti_, yes please drop it
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, but pedro keeps complaining it's a buggy software where nothing works
<rodrigo_> right
<didrocks> last time I built a dvd, it was 1 year and half ago to watch something on my parent's TV without having the right cable?
<didrocks> s/\?/â¦/
<rodrigo_> I've used it to burn isos several times, but not dvds
<seb128> didrocks, did you ever get to see the movie or did you run into bugs and gave up as well? ;-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> seb128: it worked. In fact, this software was working quite well few years ago, I even dumped k3b from my machine at the time :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> is it brasero which is bugged or the underline I-dont-remember-the-rename-for-legal-reason command line tool?
<rodrigo_> nah, it always says 'please replace the disc with a supported CD or DVD', on a DVD+RW I just blanked in brasero :(
<rodrigo_> oh, should try k3b...
<didrocks> yeah, I think it's using the same toolâ¦
<chrisccoulson> ouch, http://asserttrue.blogspot.com/2011/12/how-google-is-quietly-killing-firefox.html ;)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, the same command line tool, you mean?
<didrocks> ah, my memory, I don't remember the nameâ¦
<rodrigo_> didrocks, growisofs, cdrecord?
<pitti_> ... wodim
<didrocks> wodim
<pitti_> probably growisofs for DVDs
<didrocks> which is a rename fromâ¦
<pitti_> cdrecord :)
<didrocks> indeed \o/
<pitti_> but anyway, everytime I tried brasero it failed on me :(
<pitti_> that is to say, BOTH times in the past three years or so
<seb128> rodrigo_, " oh, should try k3b..." <- wrong response
<seb128> rodrigo_, "oh, should debug brasero"!
<didrocks>       ^ good response
<didrocks> (just completing ;))
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'll do it :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lot of conspiracy theories on google and firefox recently ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
<chrisccoulson> although, i see similar issues with gmail too, which is why i never keep it open in a tab anymore (and google plus)
<chrisccoulson> firefox leaks like a sieve if i keep those open ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well don't worry by the end of the year we will have firefox 25 and it will solve all the world issues
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> now you're trolling! :-P
 * didrocks waits on firefox 31
<seb128> what, me? come on!
<didrocks> can't wait for it!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet?!
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> by which time, the whole world will have switched to chrome, all sites will be using native client and we'll be back to the good 'ole days of the 90's ;)
<chrisccoulson> see, i can troll too :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, should bug #871568 be assigned to you btw?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871568 in thunderbird "Removing spam does not clear flag" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871568
<chrisccoulson> yeah, probably
<seb128> doing that
<chrisccoulson> perhaps all thunderbird bugs should be assigned to me ;)
<chrisccoulson> actually
<chrisccoulson> that's a bad idea :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> indeed, not the best idea for you
<didrocks> seb128: see, we are back to a minitel world. French were right!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but that one is reproducible by some people, including a responsive co-worker, so you might have a chance to get enough infos to fix it ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i desparately need to fix some of these bugs once i've got this current work finished
<seb128> chrisccoulson, still fighting the debug symbols stuff?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i really want to get this one working, so we can figure out some of the thunderbird crashes
<chrisccoulson> hopefully that will be finished this week now i've got a more sane way of doing it, which doesn't involve forking breakpad :)
<pitti_> seb128: yay glib fallout :) http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html
<pitti_> seb128: (should only be transient, provided that glib i386 builds soon)_
<pitti_> time for lunch, bbl
<seb128> pitti_, doesn't look good
<pitti_> seb128: I think it's just because glib amd64 is already published while i386 is still building
<seb128> pitti_, if you can kill the i386 build and retry it it would be good
<pitti_> looks like test suite hang
<pitti_> seb128: I can't
<seb128> pitti_, no, the i386 build doesn't look good
<seb128> it's stucked in the gdbus test where it often hangs
<seb128> it will stay there until timeout
<seb128> i.e until the builder decide it's stucked and stop the build
<seb128> pitti_, who can? lamont?
<pitti_> seb128: see #u-devel, pinged him
<seb128> pitti_, thanks
<seb128> lunch here as well
<seb128> see you in a bit
<pitti_> seb128: so that's not just because of the old kernel, is it? it also happens in PPAs
<seb128> do we have new kernels in ppa? dunno
<seb128> desrt said he would welcome a stacktrace of an hanging build
<seb128> but lunch for now
<seb128> bbiab
<pitti_> seb128: yes, PPAs are running the precise kernel AFAIK, it's a full VM
<ricotz> pitti_, the ppa builders seems to run on 2.6.24-30-xen
<pitti_> ricotz: right, the hosts, but I thought the guests were full VMs with the dev kernel?
<ricotz> pitti_, i dont think so
<ricotz> otherwise it wouldnt happen ;)
<pitti_> ricotz: ah, ok; thanks for the info, that explains some things
<ricotz> pitti_, i think it needs to be >= 2.6.26 to solve this
<pitti_> ricotz: once we release precise, the buildds will hopefully be upgraded soon :)
<ricotz> pitti_, i was hoping they would at least use lucid ;)
<pitti_> ricotz: confirmed, zirconium is an old xen machine running hardy
<pitti_> ricotz: but I am told it's going to be upgraded RSN :)
<ricotz> pitti_, i see, so hoping it will be soon
<ricotz> otherwise you can disable this specific test (like i have done in my ppa)
<seb128> ricotz, I will refrain from comments on "if you sent your work to the team we wouldn't have to debug the same issues that you already debugged in your ppa while testing" today ;)
<seb128> didrocks, is compiz "default" profile supposed to launch unity?
<didrocks> seb128: no, the default is the one not launching unity
<didrocks> the ubuntu profile is launching unity
<seb128> hum ok, I wonder what's going on there
<ricotz> seb128, hehe
<seb128> didrocks, I fixed gnome-session yesterday, the "classic GNOME" was broken since Oneiric, but with the fix "classic GNOME" starts unity for me, not sure why (tested with a guest session started from lightdm, the .xsessionerrors indicates it's using the "default" profile and not the unity one"
<didrocks> seb128: that's weird, I'll try to have a look, but right now, I'm racing rebuilding everything and updating packaging because dx break the ABI dee
 * didrocks needs more hours in a day
<seb128> didrocks, don't bother, there is no hurry there, I will try on my 10v, I was just checking that it was supposed to run without unity
<didrocks> seb128: normally, it shouldn't, that's really weird that it happens in a fresh profile
<seb128> didrocks, it's possible that over years I hacked my box to workaround a bug and broke "default"
<didrocks> possibly
<seb128> so don't bother with that
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> thanks to you, keep me in touch
<seb128> will do
<seb128> ricotz, do you have a vcs for your ppa work?
<ricotz> seb128, i have a local bzr repo which contains all packaging stuff of the ppa, nothing mergable though
<seb128> ricotz, it's not merging which interest me, it's having an easy command line access to see your refreshed patches and packaging changes with an history
<seb128> ricotz, like the ppa only diff with the previous version so it's useless to know what you did to i.e glib or gtk compared to Ubuntu
<seb128> especially that you don't keep the changelogs
<seb128> ricotz, what I mainly want is not having to refresh the patches you already refreshed or adapted to new versions
<seb128> it would also be good if there was a way to see what issues you run into and how you solved it
<ricotz> seb128, hmm, i can see your need for it
<seb128> ricotz, other suggestions on how to track your packaging fixes are welcome
<seb128> there might be a better way, I'm just trying to figure how to look at your work without dgetting a new git snapshot every time
<ricotz> i think dget the ppa package and debdiff and filter for debian folder
<ricotz> should work
<seb128> ricotz, well that forces me to "open a webbrowser on your ppa, get the url, dget a full tarball each time, unpack it, diff it, and figure myself what you did and why since you don't keep changelogs entries from previous uploads"
<seb128> ricotz, I can as well redo the work myself directly in most case, it's as much time wasted than having to go through the manual getting, review and understanding what you did and why
<seb128> ricotz, can I convince you to add some context or summary of your changes in the changelog or in the patches you add maybe though? ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, absolutly right, currently i dont have "support" to add changelog entries, i was thinking about something simliar like we have for the xorg-edgers ppa
<ricotz> i think gtk has quite some changes :\
<ricotz> seb128, on the other hand, i am trying to keep the changes quite minimal
<seb128> ricotz, right, I'm sure that as you said the new gtk will need some patches refreshes and tweaks
<seb128> ricotz, it would be nice if your work was useful to us as well
<seb128> like right now I'm unsure if I should try to figure what you did and why or if I should just redo it myself because that's maybe easier
<ricotz> seb128, i am merging/syncing the ubuntu/debian packaging regulary which doesnt result in huge changes
<seb128> ricotz, well still a changelog or something with the summary would be useful
<seb128> like you commented some tests in glib and I would have no clue why if I didn't ask you
<ricotz> seb128, some changes are natty/oneiric/ppa specific too (like debhelper, c4>c1)
<ricotz> seb128, right
<seb128> it's hard to know if you did something as a workaround, if you discussed the issue with upstream, etc
<ricotz> seb128, i will try to add some changelog insertion process
<seb128> so it's not easy to know if we want to copy what you did without knowing the rational behind the change ;-)
<seb128> ricotz, thanks!
<seb128> ricotz, or at least a one liner comment in the .patches or rules changes
<seb128> like #ppa hack: don't break on new symbols for git snapshots
<seb128> or #upstream knows issue, discussed on IRC
<seb128> or #workaround for some hangs
<ricotz> i see
<seb128> ricotz, thanks for considering it ;-)
<ricotz> i will try ;)
<pitti__> yay, i386 glib built
<pitti__> on all arches now, too
<seb128> pitti__, \o/
<seb128> pitti__, do you count the days without server with extra "_"? ;-)
 * pitti__ is now known as pitti______happy_without_email
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> seb128, i i thought that was pitti__ being dressed up with a tie :)
<pitti__> seb128: just DSL reconnect
<seb128> pitti, welcome to my world ;-)
<pitti_> I really need to think about resetting my router in the late evening
<ricotz> seb128, are there any thoughts what to do with changes in g-c-c 3.4?
<ricotz> seb128, not for this cycle of course
<seb128> ricotz, in which way?
<ricotz> just meaning the complete removal of the library and the ability to add items
<seb128> ricotz, what changes?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> distro revert those commits
<ricotz> mhh, this would get messy i think
<seb128> why?
<ricotz> i was thinking about the gsettings transition
<ricotz> and g-c-c contains some bits here
<seb128> or switching context?
<ricotz> g-s and mutter working well so far, but the keybindings are in g-c-c
<seb128> the gnome-shell,wm,keybinding transition?
<ricotz> yes
<seb128> ricotz, how much does that transition break i.e compiz and unity?
<seb128> since compiz is still on gconf and trying to use shared keybinding from there
<ricotz> havent checked that :\
<seb128> have fun maintaining that ;-)
<ricotz> not running unity so often :P
<seb128> well "have fun with the users who will run your ppa and notice you are screwing compiz and unity" :p
<seb128> we have been there before
<ricotz> right, we have been there ;=
<ricotz> ;)
<seb128> I think it's going to happen this cycle again, I don't see us doing that transition before the lts
<seb128> it seems non trivial, especially for compiz, and we decided to target resources to fix compiz issues for the lts, not to create new ones by refactoring it
<ricotz> i total agree, making it stable is the priority
<ricotz> but it still is nice to know what problems are coming
<seb128> yeah, I'm just trying to think how we could ppa GNOME 3.4 without breaking compiz and unity
<ricotz> seb128, i have tried g-s-d and g-c-c some time ago, didnt end well
<ricotz> i think lightdm didnt like the new g-s-d
<ricotz> (havent looked into it, i didnt expect it to work back then)
<seb128> well, lightdm has little to do with g-s-d
<seb128> out of the fact that unity greeter runs it
<seb128> but it's not interacting with it in any way, it's just one greeter running g-s-d to have stuff like suspend working
<seb128> if you use the gtk greeter it's purely gtk, nothing to do with GNOME
<ricotz> ok, i guess i might try it again at some point
<seb128> cool, let us know how it goes
<ricotz> people like to change there bindings ;)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, could be usefull to support/push metacity gtk3 transition for unity 2d session
<ricotz> i mean for canonical
<ricotz> since metacity will be around for some time
<seb128> ricotz, dunno, try talking to the dx guys about it if you think there is a need for it
<seb128> but we will not kick gtk2 out of the CD this cycle anyway
<seb128> i.e firefox, libreoffice and some others
<xclaesse> kenvandine, hello
<kenvandine> hey xclaesse
<xclaesse> kenvandine, I've copied your new empathy package to a oneiric ppa, but when MC loads the goa plugin it says:
<xclaesse> (process:15905): mc-plugins-DEBUG: loader.c:167 g_module_open (/usr/lib/mission-control-plugins.0/mcp-account-manager-goa.so, ...) = /usr/lib/mission-control-plugins.0/mcp-account-manager-goa.so: failed to map segment from shared object: Permission denied
<xclaesse> kenvandine, that's because MC is apparmored
<kenvandine> i updated the apparmor profile in tp-mission-control
<xclaesse> dunno what the package should do to make it pass
<xclaesse> ah, so I need to copy mc into my ppa as well and it will work?
<kenvandine> yes
<xclaesse> good :)
<kenvandine> :)
<xclaesse> kenvandine, great it worked. thanks
<kenvandine> xclaesse, np
<seb128> hum
<seb128> tb composer really sucks to reply to emails
<seb128> or rather to quote original mail bits, if you try to reduce vertical useless blank lines around the text you try to keep it just tends to change the formatting or dropping the quoting line at all
<mdeslaur> seb128: you should try evolution, it works great :)
<mfisch> seb128: I'm registering an upstream project for gworldclock. upstream is debian in this case, is there a naming convention I should use?  gworldclock-debian seems logical
<seb128> mfisch, no, "gworldclock"
<seb128> we don't call nautilus "nautilus-gnome" ;-)
<mfisch> seb128: but there's already a gworldclock project...?
 * mfisch assumed unique names
<seb128> mfisch, where?
<seb128> mfisch, https://launchpad.net/gworldclock
<seb128> "This page does not exist, or you may not have permission to see it. "
<mfisch> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gworldclock
<mfisch> I think I see where this is going...
<mfisch> the link I posted is just the ubuntu source package, not the actual project (which is upstream)
<seb128> mfisch, what are you trying to do exactly?
<mfisch> seb128: registering the upstream for gworldclock so I can link bugs into it
<seb128> with upstream being debian?
<mfisch> seb128: yes, it is in this case: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gworldclock
<seb128> I'm not sure you the bts will count as an upstream tracker, you can do "also affect distribution" on bugs and pick debian to add a "debian" line to the bug table
 * mfisch goes to look
<seb128> mfisch, well the usual way is to register products on https://launchpad.net/projects/+new
<seb128> mfisch, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gworldclock is not a product, it's an ubuntu source
<seb128> launchpad can be confusing in that way ;-)
<seb128> mfisch, i.e
<mfisch> seb128: linking bugs is all I wanted to do, so this "Also affects distro" will work great I think
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus <- ubuntu source
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/nautilus <- project
<seb128> mfisch, ok, great
<mfisch> perfect: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gworldclock/+bug/800027
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800027 in gworldclock "memory leak in gworldclock 1.4.4-9ubuntu1 (~450KiB/h)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mfisch> seb128: thanks for the help, glad I asked
<seb128> mfisch, you're welcome, don't hesitate to ask ;-)
<didrocks> good night everyone!
<pitti_> good night everyone, too!
<seb128> 'night pitti_
<seb128> re
<seb128> evening desktopers ;-)
<seb128> so we still have quite some red on versions
<seb128> who would be up to grab some of the GNOME stuff remaining there?
<seb128> i.e gnome-menus, gucharmap, vte (g-t)
<seb128> kenvandine, cyphermox, kenvandine, mterry: ^ takers? ;-)
<seb128> some of the yellow ones could use merging as well, nautilus, gedit, brasero, etc
<kenvandine> seb128, sorry... busy
<seb128> kenvandine, heh, I didn't say today, just in the next weeks ;-)
<kenvandine> sure :)
<mterry> seb128, I can try and merge a couple this week
<seb128> mterry, no hurry, i'm just pointing it because nobody else out of pitti did merges so far
<seb128> it's supposed to be a team activity, we are sucking quite a bit to it this cycle
<mterry> yay pitti
<seb128> but I'm sure we will catch up, right? ;-)
<mterry> mmm
<mterry> You're right.  I'll try to do a few a week as needed
<seb128> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html as well if you wonder what is next to your name on the "standard list" ;-)
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> sorry if I looks like a but grumpy
<kenvandine> always grumpy :)
<seb128> I've been going through merges alone for 3 weeks, I start having enough
<seb128> kenvandine, lol!
<seb128> kenvandine, no fair :p
<seb128> not
<kenvandine> seb128, do you know if anything changed in glib that fixed time related stuff?
<kenvandine> in doing a time comparison, i had some (seemingly arbitrary) subtraction of 3600 before
<TheMuso> seb128: I'll see if I can find some time between now and when I go on leave.
<kenvandine> and now with the glib update, i am off by an hour unless i remove that
<TheMuso> And I'll help merge stuff.
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks, there is "mousetweaks" at least in the red list that seems like one for you ;-)
<kenvandine> i wish i knew why i was subtracting 3600 before...
<TheMuso> seb128: Oh right, thats certainly a valid candidate.
<seb128> kenvandine, no, that's not something I read about, but desrt is probably a better candidate to ask what changed in glib ;-)
<seb128> oh btw, I've uploaded gtk 3.3.4 in the gnome3-team precise ppa today
<kenvandine> i am guessing there was a bug before... and i worked around it
<seb128> if people want to play with it
 * kenvandine should comment code better
<seb128> it's not in the ubuntu-desktop ppa yet because it breaks at least the gnome-control-center icon grid
<seb128> ricotz, ^ did you notice that with your daily builds?
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<seb128> jbicha, did you plan to upload canberra with the login sound disabled? it seems we are at the right time in the cycle for that
<seb128> jbicha, should we also sync caribou?
<ricotz> seb128, broken in which way? looks normal to me here
<seb128> ricotz, the categories labels are not wel displayed and it behaves randomly, like often it has one row of icons and lot of whitespace and you need to scrolldow
<seb128> where the normal grid should fit on screen
<seb128> does the same without the overlay scrollbars so that's not that
<seb128> but maybe it's fixed since 3.3.4, I used the tarball
<ricotz> seb128, i think i saw this behavior some time ago, but this wasnt with 3.3.x
<seb128> ricotz, are you sure?
<seb128> I didn't update a lot there today, mostly glib and gtk
<seb128> it happens every time now
<seb128> well the behaviour changes, the whitespace etc are random between runs
<seb128> but it's buggy every time
<ricotz> hmm, not completely sure when i have seen it,  but i am not seeing it now
<seb128> it's gtk
<seb128> works fine when dpkg -i the 3.2 debs
<seb128> so maybe it was in 3.3.4 and got fixed in git since
<ricotz> can you switch the font?
<ricotz> currently i have a buggy g-s-d due some nvidia issues, so i cant really change things :\
<seb128> ricotz, should that make a difference?
<ricotz> maybe, if the reserved label space is buggy
<cyphermox> seb128: to answer your question, I'll do a pass of merges tomorrow
<seb128> thanks
<cyphermox> fwiw, uploading a fix to evo since it won't build with the latest glib (g_thread_init missing) and it was actually missing the pst-import plugin
<cyphermox> pst-import> that will be SRU'd
<cyphermox> I'm gessing for evo we want to stick with 3.2.x right?
<seb128> great
<seb128> cyphermox, yes, new version will be risky they plan to switch to gsettings and maybe webkit
<seb128> lot of changes in one cycle
<seb128> they will break api,abi as well in e-d-s
<seb128> which would create work for other clients
<seb128> well, that said time to call it a day, bye everybody
<cyphermox> gosh
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-08
<pitti_> good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti_.
<robert_ancell> Empty inbox \o/   So if everyone can play along, not respond to my email, not file bugs, generally be inactive until new years that would be awesome
<pitti_> hey robert_ancell
<pitti_> robert_ancell: congrats!
<robert_ancell> pitti_, hey, internet all back again?
<pitti_> robert_ancell: you won't get any mail from me, as long as my server is still broken :(
<robert_ancell> nice for me :)
<pitti_> robert_ancell: my interweb tube has never been the problem -- my colo provider has some technical problems, and thus my vserver has been down since Monday
<robert_ancell> ech, thinking of changing providers now?
<pitti_> so, no email and IRC proxy
<pitti_> robert_ancell: well, I have nothing against a HDD breaking down and re-syncing a RAID, but this should only take a coupel of hours
<pitti_> but now it's more than two days, they could at least let me know what's going on
<robert_ancell> yeah, sounds like an excuse
<pitti_> I'll call them again in 2 hours when they open
<robert_ancell> pitti_, how much PAM do you know?
<pitti_> I know that it exists
<pitti_> what it does
<pitti_> where to find the libraries
<pitti_> and how to spell it
 * pitti_ desperately tries to find somethign else
<robert_ancell> well, that puts you ahead of most people :)
<robert_ancell> I've got a proposal document for enhancements to PAM to make the greeter handle prompts better.  I was wondering if you'd be interested in reviewing it
<robert_ancell> cjwatson, ^ would that be something you'd be interested in too?
<micahg> robert_ancell: slangasek is probably the person you want
<robert_ancell> micahg, yeah, he's the one I'm sending it too but I hoped there was more than one person in the company
<pitti_> bbiab
<micahg> robert_ancell: mdeslaur might be able to review as well
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti_> hey didrocks
<didrocks> good morning pitti_without_server :)
<didrocks> how are you?
<pitti_> didrocks: quite well, thanks! how about yourself and your neck?
<didrocks> pitti_: I'm fine, thanks! However, I have the impression that the rock yesterday made the neck a little bit straight again and I feel some pain. I just want to be up for tomorrow's "fÃªte des lumiÃ¨res" in Lyon (big event in the city, 3 millions people) and then, definitively rest during my holidays starting this week-end :)
<didrocks> http://www.fetedeslumieres.lyon.fr/
<pitti_> didrocks: is that like "party of light"?
<pitti_> (translated)
<didrocks> pitti_: right, most of buildings of the city have light and music shows
<didrocks> this has some historical background: the plague was surrounding Lyon during the middle age. Lyon's citizen prayed Marie to save them and Lyon wasn't touched by it
<didrocks> so people then light some candles every years for the 8th of december
<didrocks> and for 11 years now, it's a full city show with light scenes
<pitti_> ah, so it is "light"
<pitti_> sounds nice!
<didrocks> it really is :)
<didrocks> even when I was in Paris, I just travelled to Lyon for the week-end for it
<seb128> hey
<pitti_> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti_, how are you?
<pitti_> quite fine, thanks!
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks!
<seb128> pitti_, so doko pinged yesterday, the glib single include enforcement is an issue, he estimated it would break at least an hundred source builds
<pitti_> urgh
<seb128> pitti_, he ran into quite some cases with the armfh rebuilt
<seb128> pitti_, so I did upload a version with that revert before going to bed
<pitti_> seb128: ah, cheers
<seb128> I hope I didn't break anything, I didn't have time for testing
<seb128> it was almost midnight, and since the commit impacts only on includes I figured the chances of runtime issue would be low ;-)
<pitti_> it built everywhere, nothing blew up yet
<pitti_> well, CDs did blow up, but not because of this
<seb128> ok, good
<pitti_> wohoo! my server is back!
<didrocks> pitti_: \o/
 * pitti_ watches postfix grind
<pitti> look, no underscore!
<ogra_> *clap*  *clap* *clap*
<seb128> pitti, you lost your tail!
<pitti> *cough*
<ogra_> no tie today
<seb128> pitti, happy bug reading day :p
<seb128> ups
<seb128> emails reading
<seb128> rather ;-)
<didrocks> heh, yeah, I think pitti wanted to prepare a little bit from his holiday's return, just having to look at 2 days of emails :)
<pitti> it'll take some time for mails to come in after 2 days of downtime, though
<pitti> I guess by now the retry interval for most servers is 6 hours or so
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, pitti, didrocks
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson! How are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> i set up my first blog last night so i can now spam planet ubuntu :-)
<didrocks> nooooooooooooooooooo ;)
<bryceh> chrisccoulson, congrats :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh btw, http://lh6.ggpht.com/-hti1sIu2XG4/RvHSmQ0zGBI/AAAAAAAAEws/ROWfIvK_YJM/sany2123.jpeg
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that the birmingham "beach" I was talking about from GUADEC
<chrisccoulson> seb128, lol. that's awesome!
<pitti> hello tkamppeter
<chrisccoulson> seb128, https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/144717803621068800 ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you never saw it? are you sure you live in birmingham? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i never saw it. i travel to the city center once per year though (for the christmas market)
<chrisccoulson> i steer clear at other times because i hate it :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, it's your twitter which made me think about that :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> lol
<tkamppeter> pitti, your mail unbroke and all the mails of the last days were arriving at me, including about the Cloudprint integration which you have postponed to Q. Should I rename itr (to contain "q") and remove the milestone?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, there's even a bit of blue sky in your picture. it must have been photoshopped!
<pitti> tkamppeter: sure
<pitti> tkamppeter: well, renaming isn't that important
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: hey man, how many branches from the varoius projects have gone through the AC process? I am writing a recap
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you're not on twitter?
<chrisccoulson> seems that someone stole your name anyway - https://twitter.com/#!/Seb128 ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no I'm not, I just googled your name to find you blog and found your twitter page ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hah
<tkamppeter> pitti, done. I will leave in the [rodrigo-moya], so that later on some automated MySQL script can replace that by the user name of rodrigo's successor.
<chrisccoulson> there's nothing on my blog yet ;)
<jasoncwarner_> seb....WTF? http://lh6.ggpht.com/-hti1sIu2XG4/RvHSmQ0zGBI/AAAAAAAAEws/ROWfIvK_YJM/sany2123.jpeg ?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: do you need an estimation or a precise number?
<pitti> tkamppeter: well, that automated script will be called "pitti" most probably :)
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: estimation will probably do.
<tkamppeter> pitti, but better when you can search for [rodrigo-moya] that have to guess on the work items that this is a thing for  the GNOME guru and not for the original poster of the Blueprint.
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: so, we have right now 456 binary packages build, with an average number of 5 binary packages per source package, so by merge, it gives us around 90 merges
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I'm just gonna use 90 ....thanks!
<tkamppeter> pitti, and if you fix this manually, the new GNOME guru will get tons of mail notifications, telling him that his job will never get boring :-)
<didrocks> yw :)
<pitti> ok, apport retracers fixed, sorry about that
<seb128> pitti, how do you feel about having the nautilus merge with binary rename landing today?
<seb128> pitti, it shouldn't be hard since there is no code change so it's only no change rebuilds for rdepends
<pitti> seb128: would it be ok to upload in two hours?
<pitti> seb128: I'd like to wait for next publisher to rebuild today's images
<seb128> pitti, I didn't start on the merge yet, so yeah, not before 2 or 3 hours (lunch in between)
<pitti> seb128: oh, it'd be binNEW, right? fine then
<pitti> seb128: what changes?
<seb128> pitti, you mean? just the libnautilus... has been renamed in debian because gtk2->gtk3 is an abi break but upstream didn't change the soname
<pitti> seb128: oh, libnautilus; right, I remember
<pitti> I thought "nautilus" was renamed
<seb128> pitti, I say at least 2 hours because we didn't merge nautilus for a while an it's one of those source that has quite some diff to review
<seb128> pitti, no sorry, it's just the lib, anyway I will start on it, as you said it will binNEW on upload in any case
<seb128> pitti, so you can control when you want it to get in ;-)
<pitti> seb128: that's totally fine
<seb128> great
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> I'll start image builds in about 45 mins
<pitti> just to recover from the common-dictionaries debacle
<pitti> and also to get an image without the EINVAL bug
<chrisccoulson> am i meant to provide a menu file in /usr/share/menu for my packages? someone just asked for one in thunderbird (bug 901633)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 901633 in thunderbird "no menu file in distribution" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901633
<chrisccoulson> are they actually used anywhere?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, menu is really really old
<pitti> .desktop is the (not so) new way
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we have never supported menu in ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> pitti, ok, thanks. i'll wontfix that request then, and drop the menu file from firefox too
<pitti> they are still ok for Debian
<chrisccoulson> yeah, the firefox menu file is cruft left over from debian
<pitti> but any desktop which can't read desktop files these days is pretty much screwed
<tkamppeter> pitti, the JBIG patents will end in April 2012 and due to this I want to have a SpliX driver with full support for all printers in Precise. Now my question is whether I should introduce JBIGKit as a new package or embed the JBIGKit code in SpliX.
<tkamppeter> pitti, the JBIGKit code is http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/download/jbigkit-2.0.tar.gz
<tkamppeter> pitti, the patent ends at April 4, right before release of Precise.
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, this could also be SRUed theN?
<pitti> tkamppeter: is it likely that jbigkit will be needed by other packages? it certainly sounds like it
<pitti> tkamppeter: I guess at some point Debian will package it then as well, so it feels it should be a separate package
<pitti> tkamppeter: is that a library, or just a tool to convert images?
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is a library. I could package it and upload it to Precise. AFAIK only user currently is SpliX, but once available other packages could appear to use it.
<pitti> tkamppeter: but it's still covered by patents for now?
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is, so you think better not upload it in to the (not officially released) Precise?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm not sure how to handle these patents; are they actively being enforced?
<pitti> tkamppeter: if nobody cares (any more), we can upload it
<pitti> tkamppeter: the main criterion that we have is "is there precedence for enforcing the patent"
<tkamppeter> pitti, I do not really know. The foo2zjs package also supports many of these printers. It seems to contains its own JBIG code and it is in all distros for years.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I can also embed the code in the SpliX package for Precise and upload this package on April 5 and the real JBIGKit package we do in Q.
<pitti> tkamppeter: that doesn't make any difference wrt. the patent
<pitti> tkamppeter: but if we already ship it in foo2zjs, it's indeed better to just package it separately
<tkamppeter> pitti, so I will package the lib and add it to Precise.
<pitti> tkamppeter: sounds good
<tkamppeter> pitti, the upstream package produces two static libraries, no dynamic ones, but anyway, having a package to build-depend on is easier than having to include the source code in every package.
<pitti> tkamppeter: that's right; but presumably not very palatable to MIR team
<tkamppeter> pitti, looks like that there will be a libjbigkit-dev with the static libs and libjbigkit-utils with the command line converters.
<tkamppeter> pitti, another problem is that upstream did not modify anything after 2008.
<tkamppeter> pitti, as other printer drivers have their own jbig code and SpliX only uses the lightweight library libjbig85 compiled from only 2 .c files I could add these 2 .c files to SpliX if the package is not suitable for Main (unmaintained, no shared lib).
<pitti> tkamppeter: *nod*
<pitti> I didn't expect it to look that bad
<pitti> well, maybe it'll take up some interest now that the patent will be gone soon
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps I will go the include-2-.c-files-in-SpliX variant in Precise and the full library package when Debian picks it up (most probably after Precise). WDYT?
<pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds best then indeed
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK, then I will do a new SpliX package after lunch.
<Sweetshark> pitti, other teutons: http://www.thisiswhyyouregerman.com/
<pitti> Sweetshark: heh, nice ad idea indeed!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that only me that find that the tb inbox icon doesn't fit at all with our theme?
<seb128> well the other special folders as well, draft, sent etc
<didrocks> need to go out for some errand, brb
<seb128> pitti, ok, I uploaded nautilus and just figured I could make the transition easier
<seb128> pitti, libnautilus-extension1 is renamed libnautilus-extension1a, so the second one conflicts,replace the first one (to ensure rdepends are upgraded in the same upgrade)
<seb128> pitti, but our libnautilus-extension1 is already the new one
<seb128> i.e it's already the gtk3 version, same abi
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to do another upload without the "conflicts", i.e just with the replace?
<seb128> that would avoid making all the rdepends uninstallable until they are rebuilt
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine
<pitti> seb128: but at some point we need it to clean up the old package, I figure?
<seb128> pitti, well, do you want another upload for that? or do you just want to no-change-rebuild the 5-6 rdepends?
<gnomefreak> any chance you are working on a way to set a screensaver and/or a way to set icons and enable more than 6 themes?
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine either way
<seb128> gnomefreak, no no and no
<pitti> seb128: hm, I figure we need a versioned breaks/replaces:, otherwise we'll break upgrades again
<gnomefreak> seb128: k thanks
<pitti> seb128: they might rather want to hold back the old lib than upgrading to it
<pitti> seb128: that has led to some trouble in the past
<pitti> seb128: so I guess versioned B/R and transitional package for precise, and a C/R to clean up for precise+1?
<seb128> pitti, hum?
<seb128> pitti, it's a soname change, since when do we need transitional packages with the old soname?
<pitti> seb128: regular soname changes can be installed in parallel
<seb128> well basically it's a soname change, just a distro one because upstream broke the abi without bumping the soname
<pitti> this is not the case here
<pitti> if you add an unversioned conflicts:/replaces:, I've often seen apt want to hold it back
<seb128> pitti, well it's a scoring issue, we will have at least 6 rdepends on the new soname that should score enough
<pitti> seb128: well, we can try
<seb128> it's often an issue when there is like 1 rdepends
<seb128> the score is less obvious then
<pitti> seb128: I just painfully remember the 5-or-so tries we had to do with the at-spi2 stuff in the last cycle
<pitti> and eventually we just dropped the breaks
<pitti> versioned breaks tend to behave better, if you have a transitional package
<seb128> well there is not a breaks, it's a non versioned conflicts
<pitti> but anyway, happy to try
<seb128> we could use c,r,p
<seb128> that usually helps
<pitti> seb128: unversioned conflicts behaves even worse, tohugh
<pitti> p: helps, yes
<pitti> (hopefully)
<seb128> ok, so those concerns are noted but I would like to try first without the transitional dummy binary
<seb128> just to see if the scoring is good enough that we don't need it
<seb128> pitti, that doesn't reply to my original question though ;-)
<seb128> do you think we should drop the conflicts until we have all rdepends rebuilt (to avoid creating installability issues) or just do rebuilds for the rdepends and be done with it?
<pitti> seb128: if you can upload them all today, that's fine
<pitti> i. e. without dropping the conflicts
<pitti> but C -> B would still be better
<pitti> unversioned conflicts is really the hate
<seb128> let me drop the Conflicts for today, that will be less issue
<seb128> we have like 6 rdepends on the CD but they will be uploaded soon enough, no need to force uploads today
<seb128> then I will add back a Breaks later on
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, well with some thinking I wonder if we need to Conflicts at all, it's only useful for partial upgrades from lucid...
<seb128> pitti, i.e if you don't partial upgrades, all oneiric rdepends have been rebuilt with gtk3 anyway
<pitti> need to leave for today, time for some badminton and I'm pretty much worn out for today anyway after all the firefighting :)
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<didrocks> good night pitti
<jbicha> seb128: caribou won't be able to be synced because we have to conflict against the oneiric packaging
<seb128> why? didn't you take our package from Debian svn?
<seb128> can we add the conflicts in Debian? it shouldn't create issue for them and if we can sync them it's a win win situation?
<jbicha> yes, that would probably work
<seb128> didrocks, hey, do you have time to look at nautilus in binNEW? it's basically the lib which got renamed in debian to show that the gtk2->gtk3 change is an abi break
<didrocks> seb128: sure, looking in a few
<seb128> didrocks, the lib should go to main as well ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: sure :)
<mterry> The latest vala upload seems to break vala compilations.  looking into it
<mterry> pitti, your vala patch seems wrong.  gstdio.h and glib-i18n.h are valid (and necessary) includes, even in the new single-include world.  The fact that valac is pulling in other includes like (gerror.h) into the C code is the problem.
<hyperair> seb128, pitti: regarding bug #878933, can gtk+ be sru'd?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878933 in gtk+2.0 "Crash when attempting to open a second file from the recent file list" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878933
<seb128> you can try
<hyperair> i'll look into it
<seb128> the diff is not trivial between versions, not sure what the sru team will say
<seb128> we can probably send it to proposed for a few weeks and see how it goes
<hyperair> alright
<seb128> thanks for looking to it!
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> pitti: is the new libpoppler entering debian soon?
<seb128> hyperair, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=644447
<ubot2> Debian bug 644447 in poppler "Please update poppler to new released 0.18" [Wishlist,Open]
<seb128> hyperair, not sure in short, I pinged the Debian maintainer before updating in Ubuntu, he said he wouldn't update until there are patches for the stuff that will not build with the update, now we fixed those, sent the patch to debian and the debdiff for the update so there should be nothing blocking him to update
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> seb128: who should i talk to on the debian side of things?
<seb128> hyperair, the current debian maintainer is "Pino Toscano"
<hyperair> alright.
<seb128> hyperair, he's pinotree on oftc
<hyperair> ah okay
<kenvandine> xclaesse, empathy 3.3.2 requires goa 3.3.0 which isn't released, do you have any guess when that might get released?
<seb128> kenvandine, oh, I hope for you that's not going to try to pull in the new version of control center at some point
<kenvandine> seb128, i really hope a new goa doesn't need a new control center
<kenvandine> seb128, empathy needs it for the goa mission-control plugin
<seb128> kenvandine, seems a tricky path, I will let you walk it ;-)
<seb128> yeah, I understand that
<kenvandine> goa 3.3.0 adds facebook and msn live
<xclaesse> kenvandine, ask davidz
<kenvandine> xclaesse, ok, will do
 * xclaesse wonders why we need that new version
<xclaesse> hm, it has always be 3.3.0 actually
<xclaesse> kenvandine, why did empathy 3.3.1 build then?
<xclaesse> it should have failed from the beginning
<xclaesse> kenvandine, maybe empathy's configure is just wrong and should require goa 3.2
<kenvandine> xclaesse, nope... didn't seem to require that
<kenvandine> xclaesse, no, i think it is for facebook and msn support
<kenvandine> added since 3.2
<xclaesse> anyway /me has to go
<kenvandine> xclaesse, later!
<ogra_> seb128, isnt the log question moot now that rsyslog only logs to a single file ?
<seb128> ogra_, does it? should gnome-system-log show that single file? should we drop gnome-system-log?
<seb128> ogra_, well you still have stuff like Xorg.0.log
<ogra_> yeah, indeed, but if we log to a single file we should just make that one the default i would think ... and add others if there is actual demand
<seb128> ogra_, what file is that?
<ogra_> (iirc the desktop team (pitti) made that rsyslog change)
<seb128> ok, I didn't follow on that
<ogra_> /var/log/syslog i think
<seb128> see good that sent that email :p
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> better ask pitti for details i only follwed it with half an eye either
<seb128> mterry, don't worry about your vala revert, we reverted the glib single include enforcement as well
<ogra_> but essentiallly it should aggregate all logs in that one file nowadays
<mterry> seb128, cool
<seb128> mterry, it was breaking too much still
<seb128> ogra_, will do, thanks
<mterry> seb128, was wondering why the revert didn't break my vala compilations as well  :)
<seb128> hehe
 * didrocks waves good evening!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i wrote my first post now http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=19 ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's probably the only blog post i will ever write!
<dobey> chrisccoulson: looks like you wrote 19 of them
<chrisccoulson> lol
<dobey> or if that's a hash key, it explains why firefox eats all my ram :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you buy the domain name only to host a blog? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, pushing people to use buggy software again :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm disappointed by my tb9 update btw :-(
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, what happened to it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I get a not-nice-looking "busy" cursor
<seb128> like when I click on a folder and it's refreshing it
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit annoying. i'm not sure why that changed
<chrisccoulson> i can't remember what it looked like before
<seb128> well for sure it was not out of style with the default white one
<seb128> I guess it was the one spinning one but I'm not sure, it's just that something feels wrong since I updated so I'm pretty sure it was not like that :p
<seb128> one spinning -> white spinning
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, do you remember me showing you that busy cursor in tb9 at UDS?
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey, yeah, vaguely
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, any idea what changed there?
<chrisccoulson> it's not very nice looking ;)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: I remember you suspected it was compiz breaking on us
<chrisccoulson> oh, that might be a different issue
<chrisccoulson> but yeah, compiz is always to blame ;)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: do you have STR?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, if I try under gnome-shell and it's broken you will own me beers for restart my session :p
<chrisccoulson> STR?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw did you see my question this afternoon?
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: minimal steps to reproduce
<seb128> question or "comment"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. i'm not sure where those icons come from
<seb128> m_conley, "click on an imap folder"
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, d'oh ;)
<seb128> m_conley, it's the cursor you get while it's refreshing the folder
<m_conley> ah, yes, I'm seeing that too
<seb128> i.e the "busy" cursor
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, yeah, that cursor never used to look like that
<chrisccoulson> but i can't remember what it looked like before :)
<m_conley> hrm, me neither
<m_conley> and I can't say for certain where the problem might lie - where in Gecko, if at all...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the icons really look out of style :-( it's a shame where the standard folder ones are the orange ubuntu ones and where the toolbar is nice as well ... should I blame andreas for it? ;-)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: might be worth filing a platform bug?
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, ok, i'll take a look at that tomorrow and try and figure out where it comes from
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm disappointed that you didn't blog about the nice birmingham beach btw ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, is it just me, or is this busy cursor impossible to get a screenshot of?
<chrisccoulson> lol @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/901867
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 901867 in firefox "Private Browsing" [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> actually, i might have misunderstood his bug report :)
<chrisccoulson> dam, it's not funny anymore
<Omega> Yeah, that irks me about firefox.
<Cheery> from #ubuntu-devel:
<Cheery> 00:41 < Cheery> it's simple question and I know the answer, but I'm interested  to hear if you've got something to add.
<Cheery> 00:42 < Cheery> if I'd like to write an opengl application for ubuntu, what  could I do?
<Sweetshark> RAOF: ping
<Sweetshark> ?
<mfisch> stgraber: perhaps you remember the review you did for me a couple weeks back?  re: gnome-nettools
<mfisch> stgraber: I have a follow-up when you're around
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-09
<bryceh> Sweetshark, RAOF is on vacation returning Monday
<Sweetshark> bryceh: and since he was foolish enough not to log out of IRC, he will find half a page of text /msg'ed there ;)
<bryceh> Sweetshark, if it was about an X issue, anything I could assist with?
<Sweetshark> bryceh: it was about an X issue I showed RAOF at UDS. The "start center" of libreoffice has clipping errors on intel drivers.
<Sweetshark> quote: 19:42 < mst_> i've unfortunately tried to invesitgate why the clipping line breaks the start center...
<Sweetshark> he did that down to all the X calls and found out LO did everything right.
<Sweetshark> so it is definitly an X issue. (And I have high sympathy for the guy walking through LOs X11 layers).
<bryceh> yikes yeah
<bryceh> Sweetshark, what's the bug # for it?  Would you like me to raise the issue with Intel?
<Sweetshark> bryceh: heh, cant find any bug #, mybe it got lost between the cracks at UDS.
<Sweetshark> bryceh: should I open one, or do you want to take care of it?
<bryceh> Sweetshark, if you don't mind opening one, and paste in the information mst found, that would be quite helpful, I can take it from there
<Sweetshark> mst_ is a RedHat guy and likely will try to escalate on their side too btw ...
<bryceh> oh, and if you can take a screenshot (or photo) showing the bad clipping, that'd help
<bryceh> Sweetshark, what are the steps to reproduce it?
<Sweetshark> bryceh: a) have intel driver b) open libreoffice startcenter (with the libreoffice command, not one of the applications directly)
<Sweetshark> thats it.
<bryceh> heh, yep I reproduced it
<Sweetshark> you will have unpainted areas on the left and right of the start center.
<bryceh> Sweetshark, I see it
<bryceh> Sweetshark, I can take care of filing the bug if you want to just shoot me mst's findings
<Sweetshark> bryceh: please do
<bryceh> got it, thanks.
<bryceh> Sweetshark, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/901959, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43649
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 901959 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Clipping in libreoffice welcome screen" [Medium,Triaged]
<bryceh> Sweetshark, and emailed Eugeni about it
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hyperair: new poppler> chicken-and-egg problem; they said they won't update poppler until there are patches available for all packages; we are now down to porting four packages, so it's going well
<pitti> ogra_: rsyslog doesn't log to a single file
<pitti> TheMuso: hello Luke, how are you?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
<didrocks> hey pitti, excellent! (still a little bit of neck pain, but hopefully almost over). We went yesterday evening to the event next to our home for the "fetes des lumiÃ¨res"
<pitti> ah, sweet! we went for badminton and sauna again
<didrocks> was really nice, some people attached to a balloon which was going up and they make some aerobic
<didrocks> pitti: nice! :)
<didrocks> pitti: playing to badminton with your wife?
<pitti> and I'm really looking forward to this evening's Wise Guys concert
<didrocks> (and a pyrotechnic final ;))
<didrocks> what kind of music it is?
<pitti> it's an a-capella band; five guys: three voices, one bass, and one who has an awesome talent of "playing the drums" with just his mouth and a mike
<pitti> they make mostly ironic/humorous songs, but also some really great ballads
<pitti> and some rather experimental things, like a ragtime or the "Goldeneye" song
<didrocks> oh, sounds really great! :)
<didrocks> hope you will enjoy it!
<pitti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onL78i_7GKE is where they introduce themselves, a really nice concert opener
<pitti> didrocks: I will :)
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> it's awesome how the sound builds up with one to five people
<didrocks> pitti: I just listened to the opener song and yeah, it's impressive ;)
<pitti> didrocks: I guess you didn't understand a lot, though
<didrocks> indeed ;)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, not too bad thanks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<baptistemm> hey there
<hyperair> pitti: great, thanks.
<pitti> mvo: guten Morgen
<pitti> mvo: I think I found a reasonably small and reliable reproducer for bug 850264 now, and added it to the description
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 850264 in apt "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850264
<pitti> mvo: but now I'm afraid I'm out of my wisdom :( any idea what goes wrong there?
 * pitti adds problem resolver debug output
<rodrigo_> hi
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<didrocks> reboot needed to test some stuff, brb
<mvo> pitti: thanks! I try this now
<mvo> pitti: btw, could you (or some other archive admin) please review/binary-NEW the release-upgrader-apt build package (release-upgrader-libapt-pkg-dev IIRC)
<pitti> mvo: oh, of course
<mvo> thanks!
<pitti> mvo: I'm looking into the lucid->precise dist-upgrade failure now, FYI
<pitti> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/job/precise-upgrade/PROFILE=lts-ubuntu,label=upgrade-test/67/artifact/lts-ubuntu/main.log
<pitti> the precise-upgrade test is the only remaining red (failed) one on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/
<pitti> but nice to see so much green there now :)
<pitti> mvo: release-upgrader-libapt-pkg-dev ships /usr/include/apt-pkg/*.h
<pitti> oh, nevermind
<pitti> Conflicts: libapt-pkg-dev
<pitti> and only a b-dep, so not relevant
<pitti> dear pitti, think before you type
<pitti> mvo: binNEWed, will watch the queue for the other package which should start building in 30 mins
<mvo> awsome, thanks pitti
<pitti> RAOF: still here?
<pitti> Sarvatt: ^ or you?
<ogra_> pitti, oh, i thought daemon.log, messages etc were merged into syslog in natty
<pitti> ogra_: correct
<pitti> ogra_: but there's still kern.log, auth.log, mail.log, daemon.log, and whatnot
<ogra_> hmm,ok
<mvo> pitti: I followed up i nthe bug and see if I can backport the fix easily, its in a mass of abi brekage
<mvo> breakage even
<pitti> mvo: oh, there's a fix already?
<jibel> pitti, there was the same problem in the upgrade from lucid -> maverick
<mvo> pitti: I think so, current trunk seems to work with the testcase and I think I know what commit fixed it, so lets see
<mvo> if I can isolate this one and do a hotfix upload
<mvo> there is more goodness in trunk, but its likely to break abi again soon, so a targeted fix is a better option
 * pitti hugs mvo
 * mvo hugs pitti
<mvo> but really, all kudos go to donkult, he is a hero
<pitti> "Holding back xserver-xorg-core rather than change xserver-xorg-video-6"
<pitti> thanks apt for letting me know why
<pitti> yay, got it
<mvo> what is it/was it?
<Sweetshark> Moin!
<didrocks> good morning Sweetshark
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> mvo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/902077/comments/2
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 902077 in xorg "lucid->precise upgrade holds back X.org video drivers" [High,Triaged]
<pitti> mvo: do we need to be concerned about upgrades where universe is not available?
<pitti> mvo: some X.org video drivers went to universe, and thus they don't have a newer version to upgrade to without universe
<pitti> mvo: this will hold back the whole X.org stack
<mvo> pitti: I think we should try to address this, but the release-upgrader can do that (and we release note it)
<pitti> now, if people are actually _using_ one of these, this would actually be right
<mvo> pitti: yeah, that is the problem, what if that is the case :/
<pitti> if not, it'd be better to remove them
<mvo> but could add a check in the release-upgrader
<pitti> mvo: but I now know how to at least fix the upgrade with universe enabled
<pitti> hacking /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages on the fly is really handy for this :)
<mvo> your fix sounds good
<mvo> heh :) yeah!
<pitti> mvo: so could we add a quirk like
<pitti> "if you don't have universe enabled, remove these 5 packages"
<pitti> ?
<mvo> eah
<mvo> yeah
<pitti> mvo: ok, I'll add a task for this then
<mvo> thanks!
<pitti> thanks to you!
<Sweetshark> git using 6GB res and counting ....
<pitti> mvo: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/update-manager/+bug/902077/comments/3 possible?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 902077 in xorg "lucid->precise upgrade holds back X.org video drivers" [High,Triaged]
<pitti> Sweetshark: urgh
 * Sweetshark is is happy he added swap for nostalgic reasons to that machine ...
<Sweetshark> pitti: git repack -ad --window --depth 70 over ~50 full LibreOffice binaries taking its toll
<Sweetshark> (full binaries= full install with all libs etc.)
<mvo> pitti: yes, should be it deends on where exactly it breaks in the resolver what to do, ideally we would just mark them for removal in the apt cache and not actually remove them before running do-release-upgrade, but that will need some testing
<pitti> mvo: infinity just chiming in on #u-devel FYI
<mvo> pitti: but if its "just" holding them back, that should be fine, we can easily work around it
<pitti> mvo: no, you can't upgrade if you keep teh old version installed
<pitti> you need to remove them or install the precise one
<mvo> it will break hard in the relsolver when it tries to calculcate the upgrade?
<pitti> yes
<mvo> meh, ok
<pitti> lucid's drivers depend on x-x-video-6
<pitti> while precise's depend on -10
<pitti> (X.org video ABI change)
<pitti> i. e. the old drivers would just crash the current X.org
<mvo> right, sorry, I think I did not express very well what I meant. so if the stack is hold back, we can do the "mark_upgrade, mark_delete" dance entirely in the apt cache in d-r-u and make sure everything is right (x upgraded, universe drivers removed). if the resolver breaks hard, we may need to actually remove them from the system *before* d-r-u is calculating the upgrade.
<pitti> mvo: ah, right
<pitti> mvo: that's a trick you can't do with sudo apt-get
<mvo> indeed, in the release notes we will have to describe the workaround like you did, but we may do it all in one go in d-r-u
<mvo> pitti: fwiw, I run the auto-upgrade-tester locally now to see if I can easily reproduce the issue (and a potential fix)
<pitti> mvo: for the libc-bin bug?
<mvo> for the xserver issue
<pitti> mvo: I didn't upload -nouveau/-vesa yet
<mvo> ok
<pitti> E: release-upgrader-python-apt: arch-dependent-file-in-usr-share ./usr/share/release-upgrader-python-apt/apt_pkg.so
<pitti> mvo: ^ nitpick, but I won't binReject it due to this
<mvo> pitti: oh, indeed, I will do another upload with /usr/lib/ as the base
<mvo> pitti: thanks for pointing this out
<pitti> mvo: NEWed, anyway
 * mvo hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs mvo back
<pitti> mvo: it's a "fix upgrades" day!
<mvo> yeah
<pitti>  o python2.6: libpython2.6 python2.6 python2.6-dbg python2.6-dev python2.6-doc python2.6-examples python2.6-minimal
<pitti>     [Reverse-Depends: Rescued from python2.6, python2.6, python2.6-dev]
<pitti>     [Reverse-Recomends: python-apt (MAIN)]
<pitti> mvo: ^ something else to fix :)
<pitti> mvo: I can do that for you if you want
<pitti> I'd rather not steal your time on the actually complicated stuff :)
<mvo> pitti: not sure that I understand this output, is it about the suggests line that is bogus?
<Sweetshark> meh, git hits a brick wall at res 7.2GB under swapping. restarting this on the 16GB machine.
<pitti> that's insane; does that operation really need the whole repo in memory?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, it diffes all objects of all times being "near" to each other to compress them. one could limit the memory usage, but I dont want that.
<Sweetshark> and since i was at 80% done on the 8GB machine, it should complete on the 16GB machine without swapping.
<didrocks> pitti: ppa area really really slow right now, can you please bump https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging/+build/2996286 and https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging/+build/2996285 ?
<mvo> pitti: new release-upgrader-python-apt upload with the path change we talked about earlier, no rush, I get some lunch now anyway
<pitti> didrocks: done
<pitti> mvo: accepted
<pitti> mvo: py2.6> component-mismatches claims it's a recommends, not suggests
 * pitti apt-get updates and checks
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> mvo:
<pitti> Package: python-apt
<pitti> Version: 0.8.3ubuntu1
<pitti> Recommends: lsb-release, iso-codes, python2.6, xz-lzma
<pitti> Suggests: python-apt-dbg, python-gtk2, python-vte, python-apt-doc
<pitti> python-apt (0.8.0ubuntu6) oneiric; urgency=low
<pitti>   * debian/control:
<pitti>     - remove recommends of python2.6
<pitti> mvo: ^ seems this popped back up; I'll just fix it, ok?
<pitti> came back in version 451
<mvo> pitti: oh, yes
<pitti> mvo: hm, when I bzr bd -S, data/templates/Ubuntu.mirrors disappeared
<pitti> ok, works with debuild
<pitti> uploaded/pushed
<didrocks> pitti: thanks! I'll probably have a unity-2d build to bump as well :)
<pitti> didrocks: bring it on :)
<didrocks> pitti: here it is: https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging/+build/2996489
<pitti> didrocks: got it a VIB ticket :)
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks \o/
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, time to restart firefox. it became unusable again :/
<didrocks> pitti: so, the unity-2d built failed because of nux ABI break and no unity rebuild since then, can I still abuse of your kindness and ask you to bump https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging/+build/2996687 (then, once built, I'll ask for a rebuild of unity-2d and harrass you again ;))?
 * didrocks tries to ensure everything is cleaned because going on vacation
<tjaalton> chrisccoulson: hey, do you want to review the nss/nspr merges I did last week, or should I just upload? I tested them on precise
<chrisccoulson> tjaalton, feel free to upload, i've not had a chance to review them yet
<tjaalton> cool, will do
<tjaalton> hmm, maybe I'll hold off until monday, so if there _are_ issues in then I can fix it right away :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> didrocks: heh, no worries; bumped
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<didrocks> great! as soon as it's published, I'll poke you for unity-2d again and crossing fingers :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, I would like to get an new Ghostscript SRU to -proposed today, as next Wed I get already EoY and I would like to have the users testing already before.
<pitti> tkamppeter: sure; can you build it with -S -v9.04~dfsg-0ubuntu11.2 to include the current changelog, too?
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you move the current SRU into -updates? It is trivial, only a Proposed: added, so this can go into -updates to free -proposed for the next one.
<pitti> OTP, bbl
<tkamppeter> pitti, and the bug of that one is already verification-done.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, sure; I'll have a look in a few mins
<pitti> so go ahead and upload
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK, the new SRU is for bug 898532 and bug 902145.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898532 in gs-gpl "Some characters replaced by others when converting PDF to PostScript" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898532
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 902145 in ghostscript "ps2write Problem with indexed CMYK Colorspace images" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902145
<tkamppeter> pitti, uploaded.
<pitti> tremolux, mvo: about half of the software-center bugs in the pending SRU are still unfixed in precise; is that a changelog problem or did these really not land in trunk yet?
<tkamppeter> pitti, bug 898532 and bug 902145 updated.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 898532 in gs-gpl "Some characters replaced by others when converting PDF to PostScript" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898532
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 902145 in ghostscript "ps2write Problem with indexed CMYK Colorspace images" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902145
<Sweetshark> pitti: git operation finished and it was well worth it: 53 LibreOffice binary installs in 749 MB
<pitti> Sweetshark: how big was it before?
<Sweetshark> pitti: thats <15MB per test build
<Sweetshark> pitti: ~4GB
<mvo> pitti: I'm pretty sure that is a changelog problem, let me double check, generally we have a pretty good trunk<->oneiric merging policy
<pitti> Sweetshark: wow, that's quite a saving
<Sweetshark> pitti: but keep in mind that it contains 53 full install images a ~450MB!
<Sweetshark> pitti: they would be 22GB as in total ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: but I guess they each differ by just a bit
<Sweetshark> pitti: they differ at least 64 commits on master
<Sweetshark> pitti: in total, they span some >5000 commits
<pitti> cyphermox: hm, most of the bugs that the evolution upload refers to are already "fix released" in oneiric??
<cyphermox> yes, but there were also re-closed in the upstream changelog :/
<cyphermox> pitti: also, got a question for you, please don't approve evo right now
<pitti> cyphermox: ok; with already closed bugs I don't want to accept it anyway
<cyphermox> pitti: I uploaded an update to evo for precise, re-enabling pst-import which ended up missing -- that requires libpst which was brought back to main for precise
<cyphermox> how do you deal with a component mismatch for SRUs? I need libpst to SRU the missing plugin, but it's in universe on oneiric?
<pitti> cyphermox: right, so you can't upload that change to oneiric right now
<cyphermox> ok, can't upload at all?
<pitti> cyphermox: we'd need a libpst in oneiric-{propsed,updates} first which we can then move to main
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> pitti: "no-change rebuild for promotion to main" ?
<cyphermox> with an accompanying bug, of course
<pitti> cyphermox: right; but I guess you alreayd have a bug for "missing PST import"?
<cyphermox> I do
<pitti> you can add a task there, as it belongs together
<cyphermox> sure
<didrocks> pitti: so, unity is built! Now, can you still use your god's power for https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/staging/+build/2996763 (and so crossing finger it will fix the FTBFS because of the ABI break in nux for unity)
<pitti> didrocks: kicked
<didrocks> pitti: thanks a lot ;)
<Sweetshark> pitti: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/What-is-bibisect-And-what-is-it-doing-in-my-office-td3572953.html <- there it is.
<Sweetshark> pitti: I prolly will blog about that too.
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the new GS SRU upload? Thanks.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, was waiting for the diff to pop up
<tkamppeter> pitti, thank you very much.
<pitti> tkamppeter: np, thanks to you for fixing!
<pitti> kenvandine: hey Ken, how are you?
<pitti> kenvandine: I need to leave a bit earlier today and Seb is on holiday; would you be able to join the release meeting for desktop today?
<kenvandine> hey pitti
<kenvandine> sure
<pitti> kenvandine: I already prepared/sent the report, and all that
<kenvandine> great
<pitti> it's just for questions
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks, I greatly appreciate; it's at 1600 UTC
<kenvandine> i'll be there :)
<pitti> kenvandine: cheers!
<didrocks> pitti: sweet, unity-2d is fine again the ppa. Thanks a lot for kicking the builder. I'll be able to go on vacation with a light heart :)
<pitti> heh, glad to hear!
<pitti> oh, Riddell doing uploads again
<pitti> Riddell: how are you?
<pitti> Riddell: and welcome back!
<Riddell> pitti: thanks, taking it gently for now
<didrocks> hey, welcome back Riddell :)
<pitti> Riddell: you're still in one piece, and at home?
<Riddell> pitti: yes I am
<Riddell> although without working heating alas
<kenvandine> Riddell, ugh... turn on more computers :)
<tremolux> pitti: hello! so, I've gone through all the bugs for the software-center 5.0.3 SRU for Oneiric and verified they are indeed fix released in Precise
<pitti> tremolux: ah, splendid; thanks!
<tremolux> pitti: and have marked them as such
<pitti> tremolux: I'll review the SRU then
<tremolux> pitti: yw, it seems like LP didn't update them automatically on release, but the changelogs are good, etc...strange
<tremolux> pitti: and thank you!
<pitti> tremolux: accepted; thanks!
<desrt> Riddell: are you going to be at the sprint in january?
<Riddell> desrt: no that's a bit too much for my poor head just now
<desrt> shame
<desrt> wotsap says that you're my most-desired gpg keysign in the ubuntu community :)
<Riddell> I feel so elite
<didrocks> ok, time to go for the "fÃªtes des lumiÃ¨res" and enjoy some holidays :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, enjoy!
<desrt> didrocks: cheers
<ogra_> didrocks, oh, have fun !
<didrocks> Thanks ;) see you next year everyone! (will be probably connected to IRC for some ubuntu-fr stuff)
<kenvandine> have a great holiday!
<didrocks> thanks kenvandine, you too when it will be time for them :)
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks for joining the meeting
<kenvandine> np
<pitti> kenvandine: I wasn't sure when desktop turn was; we did speed up the meeting format, but it's not quite predictable
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<mterry> merging gedit in precise
<maxb> What in Ubuntu starts syndaemon on user login to Unity?
<chrisccoulson> mterry, is patching g-c-c to export the background to accountsservice teh right thing to do?
<maxb> Somehow I'm getting two copies of syndaemon started, and their "disable touchpad during typing" is racing with each other and permanently disabling the touchpad for the duration of the X session
<chrisccoulson> why don't we have g-s-d monitor that setting and do it instead?
<chrisccoulson> that breaks if i change my background from firefox, doesn't it?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, hmm, I hadn't thought of firefox.  I assumed the only typical UI path would be through g-c-c.   g-s-d is better, you're right
<chrisccoulson> sorry, i hope you didn't spend too much effort on that :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, even if I had, my own damned fault.  ;)
<dobey> why does firefox seem to always have 10-20 wakeups per second?
<dobey> and why does compiz have about 50
<mterry> merging gnome-terminal
<mterry> and vte
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-12-11
<paissad> hello guys, i would like to know how to create a launch icon in Unity for a specific application ?
<paissad> thanks in advance
<paissad> i'm packaging an application, and i would like to add a quicklink to Unity
<paissad> is there  a tutorial for that ?
<paissad> quicklist*
<fsmu> hi. how can I contact with a project mentor?
<fsmu> I need some help to get started for contribution
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-03
<didrocks> good morning
 * mvo notices that for him on a fresh install typing "terminal" in the search box brings up the amazon results faster than the gnome-terminal local result ;)
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<jibel> bonjour pitti
<seb128> salut pitti jibel
<jibel> salut seb128
<pitti> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey seb128, pitti!
<seb128> lut didrocks
 * pitti donne une accolade to didrocks
 * didrocks donne une accolade Ã  pitti aussi :)
<didrocks> pitti: snow here as well! Since yesterday.
<didrocks> and it's snowing again now :)
<seb128> same here
<pitti> vous aimez la neige?
<seb128> we had some snow on saturday night but it didn't stick
<seb128> pitti, oh que oui ;-)
<didrocks> oui oui ;Ã 
<seb128> (quand je peux rester chez moi, c'est moins pratique quand il faut voyager)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm good, thanks! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks. although, a bit tired. i drove nearly 400 miles yesterday
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> visiting family?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we went to essex for the day
<chrisccoulson> so i spent the majority of the day in the car ;)
<didrocks> nice, but the car part -> not that nice :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good, but a bit tired still thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wish i didn't delete my thunderbird index this morning
<chrisccoulson> compiz has turned to glue whilst it reindexes my mail
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you are sure it's not the laptop-being-slow-on-ac-when-loaded?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's that ;)
<chrisccoulson> but i can still use tmux on a VT
<chrisccoulson> i'll have to start using lynx so i don't need to keep switching back and forth ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, weird, when it happens to me everything gets slow, including bios, grub, booting, logging into a vt, etc
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so it's clearly not a compiz issue here
<seb128> comments on dell forums suggests it's the cpu throttling kicking in too aggressively
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Sebastien! Wonder if you can sponsor bug 1076975. I'd like to bypass the queue with this one.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076975 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Please port input method function to use im-config" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076975
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I'm about to go for lunch but I will have a look once I'm back
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Have a pleasant meal. :)
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<seiflotfy> is michael hall around?
<czajkowski> seiflotfy: you'll find him in #ubuntu-community-team
<czajkowski> as mhall119
<GunnarHj> seb128: Just a friendly reminder of bug 1076975 ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076975 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Please port input method function to use im-config" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076975
<seb128> GunnarHj, I looked at it ... but what part do you want me to review? it looks like somebody else was reviewed the language-selector change and we don't want to do the seed change until l-s is ready I guess?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Well, I think I answered Aron Xu's questions sufficiently (even if he hasn't confirmed it yet). I for one consider all three packages ready. But maybe we should wait til Aron has approved? As regards the im-config MP, Osamu cleared it via comments, but he seems not to be used to Launchpad...
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, I will like a bit for Aron Xu to comment in case he has some issue to raise and then sponsor those
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, sounds reasonable. Thanks!
<seb128> thank you for the work ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: You're welcome.
<robru> good morning from Victoria!
<seb128> robru, hey, how are you? how did the moving go?
<robru> seb128, great! moving went really smoothly. now all my stuff is in storage and I am living in a hotel on the beautiful left coast ;-)
<seb128> great ;-)
<kenvandine> hey robru
<kenvandine> good to hear
<robru> kenvandine, hey
<robru> kenvandine, I saw your bug about async uploads. Is that what i'm working on today?
<kenvandine> if you can
<rvr_> robru: In Online Accounts, there are projects that already have inline packaging and others that don't. Are they pending?
<kenvandine> rvr_, which ones don't?
<rvr_> gnome-control-center-signon
<robru> rvr_, sorry, I was on holiday all last week. I had done some inline packaging... mterry took over a lot of my pending branches
<robru> rvr_, oh, that one was waiting for the test suite to stop being broken. amigadave was working on that
<rvr_> libaccounts-glib, libaccounts-qt, libsignon-glib, signon
<kenvandine> rvr_, those are intentional
<kenvandine> because they aren't hosted on launchpad
<kenvandine> gnome-control-center-signon is pending
<kenvandine> the others are on google code
<rvr_> I see
<chrisccoulson> awesome, https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/under-the-hood-facebook-messenger-for-firefox/10151175913223920 ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: anything still required from me for bug 1079653, bug 1079656, bug 1079659 all waiting in -proposed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079653 in libcmis (Ubuntu) "please sync a libcmis version > 0.3.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079653
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079656 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a liblangtag version > 0.4.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079656
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079659 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a libmspub version > 0.0.3 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079659
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=0
<seb128> Sweetshark, libcmis is staying in proposed until libreoffice is ported to the new version, but that's not an issue
<Sweetshark> k
<Sweetshark> thx
<jbicha> seb128: what do you think about bug 936257? it works with Large Text enabled but doesn't work right when Text scaling factor is set to arbitrary values
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 936257 in GTK+ "the system settings grid shouldn't use a fixed geometry" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936257
<jbicha> it looks like Large Text sets the text scaling to 1.25
<jbicha> my laptop is pretty much unusable with a 3.0 scaling factor
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<seb128> jbicha, did they special case the zoom factor?
<jbicha> seb128: I don't know, but I guess overflowing labels are a known problem at least for translating
<robru> any python-dbus experts around who can help me troubleshoot some async_callback logic? it seems to be working server side but I can't get it to call my callbacks on the client side.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-04
<jbicha> robert_ancell: desrt: people on the ubuntu-gnome list really want Firefox
<robert_ancell> jbicha, is it too hard to just install it afterwards?
<micahg> jbicha: there's a reason why Xubuntu ships Firefox :)
<jbicha> micahg: on the other hand, I consider the lack of Flash support a feature ;)
<jbicha> we're not planning to get a new webkit (with WebKit2 packages) this cycle?
<robert_ancell> it depends on what you see u-g-r as. My recommendation was to stick to upstream GNOME as much as possible, as this makes it easier to maintain, any problems are just considered upstream problems. If you start switching applications you take on responsibility for them.
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no, unless something specifically requires it (but that doesn't seem likely)
<micahg> jbicha: you could do what Kubuntu does and have an ubuntu-gnome-firefox-installer
<jbicha> flash for epiphany 3.8 requires it but it's unclear whether we're taking gtk 3.8 which would also likely be needed
<chrisccoulson> jbicha, if you take firefox, i might just make it work with the gnome shell menu ;)
<jbicha> micahg: I don't like the Kubuntu solution; it would be better if people would just learn to use USC or muon or whatever
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, hey, who got you added to ~indicator-applet-developers?
<robert_ancell> desrt, around?
<RAOF> âconnected since 28/10/1876 at 10:00â
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Good morning!
<didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Good, and about to bathe ZoÃ«!
<didrocks> enjoy :)
<robru> morning didrocks!
<didrocks> hey robru! how did your moving go?
<didrocks> living between boxes? :)
<robru> didrocks, haha! actually I am living in a hotel for a couple months until I find a real apartment... so no boxes here! but just living from a suitcase ;-)
<robru> but all my stuff is packged in storage and ready to be shipped to me once I find something
<didrocks> robru: oh! at least, it's cosy :p
<RAOF> Aww, yeah. Freshly washed baby.
<RAOF> With bonus bath for me!
<didrocks> RAOF: like, you were a collateral damage? :)
<RAOF> didrocks: ZoÃ«'s got too long for the baby baths, so we wash her in the big bath. This means that someone needs to get in to the bath with her. It's a real chore âº
<didrocks> ahah, ok :-) so one of you need to get that bonus as well :)
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey pitti, chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: okish, yourself,
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, very tired ;)
<chrisccoulson> my daughter decided she didn't want to sleep at all overnight
<didrocks> argh :/
<seb128> salut pitti
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> pitti, how is London ?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is the unwell or just not wanting to sleep that night?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, oh, you're in london?
<seb128> the->she
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure. she doesn't sleep much anyway, but last night was crazy ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yep, on the crash db sprint with ev, bdmurray, and mpt
<xclaesse> does unity has a way to record video of the desktop?
<xclaesse> gnome-shell has integrated screencast I think
<xclaesse> or should I use external tool for that?
<seb128> use external tool
<xclaesse> seb128, ok... what's the best tool nowadays?
<seb128> gtk-recordmydesktop for example
<popey> xclaesse, kazam is actively developed
<xclaesse> seb128, popey: thanks, gtk-recordmydesktop did the job :)
<didrocks> tjaalton: hey, around?
<tjaalton> didrocks: yup
<didrocks> tjaalton: did you try latest unity stack with the current raring?
<didrocks> tjaalton: we are seeing a bunch of issue, but the same packages on quantal is working (apparently)
<tjaalton> didrocks: I have whatever is in raring
<didrocks> tjaalton: how much do you need a working machine? :p
<didrocks> tjaalton: like, if you upgrade, will you be able to downgrade (it seems to be only unity/compiz/nux :p)
<tjaalton> yes
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, fan speed going up. i wonder how long it will be today before my laptop throttles the CPU back to snail-speed? :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, unplug the power
<didrocks> tjaalton: ~ubuntu-unity/daily-build ppa
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i might do that ;)
<didrocks> tjaalton: you will get windows placement issue
<tjaalton> upgrading
<didrocks> thanks :)
<tjaalton> didrocks: if you mean by misplaced the fact that windows open with the top bar under the top panel, then yes
<didrocks> tjaalton: yeah, ok, so you reproduce. Some people are trying the same version under quantal
<didrocks> (I heard it didn't happen)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you have experience with toolchain issues, what components would you blame for resulting in binaries which have buggy behaviours?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, like compiz built on raring is behaving weird(er than usual), same version built on quantal works fine
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the binaries built on raring are buggy when using on quantal as well so it seems something in the build
<chrisccoulson> seb128, heh, it could be anything really :)
<chrisccoulson> is compiz in raring already?
<seb128> no
<didrocks> well, we have a compiz built on raring
<seb128> it's in ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build
<didrocks> a month ago
<didrocks> this one worked
<didrocks> but the last one doesn't show the issue if built on quantal
<didrocks> (but installed on raring)
<didrocks> and the contrary: built on raring
<didrocks> and installed on quantal or raring, shows the issue
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I've tried downgrading binutils and gcc 4.7, no luck
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I called Dell about the dog slow laptop on ac issue, they made me upgrade my bios to a10 (I was on a3), seems to make a difference, I'm building unity for 30min and laptop is still quite usable
<didrocks> (downgrading to quantal versions)
<didrocks> boost seems to not have changed for 2 months, right?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i'm not sure what bios i have. i should check. i need to restart in a moment anyway
<chrisccoulson> but thanks for the tip :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have any other idea what can be an obvious cause?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, how recently did it break, and how long since the last good build?
 * didrocks is really lost
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, the code changed, but it doesn't seem to be related to the code. The last compiz in distro was 12/11 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz)
<didrocks> today's code works fine once built on quantal, not on raring
<chrisccoulson> ah, so it's quite a large window :/
<didrocks> and we don't have any data before yesterday, because it seems nobody was following the daily ppa
<didrocks> (yeah, that's why we need daily release, that will help discover that)
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'm going to restart and then i'll have a quick look to see if i can figure anything out
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, will i have a usable session if i install compiz from the PPA, or is it completely broken?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm trying to rebuild the old ocmpiz here
<didrocks> compiz*
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: it's usable, but you need to love alt + click
<didrocks> to move a window :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks
<didrocks> also don't minimize apps!
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> they are going to be lost forever :p
<ogra_> didrocks, there was a mesa update on the 19th
<ogra_> (another potential candidate)
<didrocks> ogra_: well, this should have impact the old binaries, isn't it?
<didrocks> ogra_: you think there are some static magic?
<ogra_> hmm, no, not really
<didrocks> compiz soon built, let's see if at least, with the old code, I can get the weird behavior
<didrocks> ogra_: so, on another note, I tried to backport the nux fix this morning
<ogra_> but changed headers or some such, you are indeed right, it would affect all builds, old and new
<ricotz> hello desktopers
<didrocks> ogra_: it seems to conflict everywhere and we need a snasphot
<didrocks> ogra_: having the ABI break and so onâ¦
<didrocks> ogra_: and so, we're back on this screwed stack :/
<ogra_> didrocks, hmm, did the nux version already change drastically wrt quantal ?
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<didrocks> ogra_: yeah, it did a lot :/
<ricotz> are there known problems with xgettext in raring stumpling over some utf8 chars in translations?
<didrocks> they started to refactor it even before UDS
<ricotz> didrocks, hi
<ogra_> didrocks, is upstream aware that the merge doesnt work ?
<didrocks> ogra_: I tried this morning, and then, jump on the screwed stack issue, didn't get the time, if you can handle this, I would be more than grateful :)
<didrocks> ogra_: I guess jay is in our timezone for their sprint
<seb128> ricotz, no such problem that I know about, why?
<ricotz> seb128, hi, i am having problems build gtk+ git
<ricotz> and i am wondering if this is a toolchain problem
<seb128> ricotz, what's the error? does it build fine on quantal?
<ricotz> seb128, it complains about the char "..." while summoning the pot
<ricotz> havent tested it on quantal
<ricotz> this is "make dist" failing
<seb128> oh, fun, they recently commited changes to  "..."  by the unicode equivalent
<ricotz> havent checked with upstream yet
<didrocks> so it's a build-dep issue for sure
<didrocks> rebuilt distro compiz today
<seb128> didrocks, compiz just rebuilt breaks?
<didrocks> have all the bugs we mentionned
<ricotz> seb128, i guess that it is then
<didrocks> time to ping doko?
<ogra_> yeah, or infinity
<seb128> didrocks, it made you wish that builds were running procenv :p
<seb128> ricotz, try asking on #gtk+ I guess
<didrocks> heh :)
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, will do, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, so it's something which changed since 2012-11-12 in raring... not a small list :-(
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, in case you missed it ^
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no need to upgrade to the ppa, rebuilding current distro's compiz shows the same behavior
<bcurtiswx> anyone else getting the blue envelope even when nothing shows on the messagung menu?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: we figured it out, btw, it's cmake
<didrocks> now "why", is still under investigation
<seb128> bcurtiswx, no
<bcurtiswx> seb128, how could i find out what's causing the envelope color change?
<bcurtiswx> is there a log somewhere?
<seb128> larsu, ^
<larsu> bcurtiswx, there's no log, no. Which applications do you have in the messaging menu?
<bcurtiswx> empathy, gwibber, xchat, twitter, gmail, facebook
<bcurtiswx> larsu, ^
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, one difference is that the newer cmake builds compiz with -DNDEBUG for some reason, which can change boost ABI
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I have a build between old cmake and new cmake: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1410398/
<didrocks> exactly the same for the rest of the stack
<didrocks> using cc instead of gcc, but it's just a symlink game
<didrocks> you think the -DNDEBUG may be the cause?
<larsu> bcurtiswx, my bet is on one of the webapps. The next time it happens, can you send me the output of `gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.indicator.messages --object-path /com/canonical/indicator/messages/menu --method org.gtk.Actions.DescribeAll`
<bcurtiswx> sure
<larsu> thanks
<mdeslaur> seb128: who's the compiz guru now?
<seb128> mdeslaur, duflu (.au time so sleeping) ... what's the question?
<mdeslaur> seb128: I want to bribe someone into fixing #1037164
<mdeslaur> seb128: I can't take it anymore, it's driving me _insane_
<seb128> bug #1037164
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037164 in compiz (Ubuntu Quantal) "Clicking on snapped windows in a different workspace produce unexpected results" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037164
<seb128> mdeslaur, yeah, that would be duflu ;-)
 * mdeslaur wonder if duflu likes scotch
<bcurtiswx> Ubuntu, the only Job where alcohol is an acceptable means of coercing colleagues into squashing nasty bugs.
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, :)
<jcastro_> acceptable? or the preferred method?
<bcurtiswx> both? lol
 * bcurtiswx wonders if seb128 is watching ubuntuonair
<seb128> sometimes, not today ... is there one ongoing?
<bcurtiswx> ummm
<bcurtiswx> yes
<chrisccoulson> right, time to get back to my other tasks :)
<bcurtiswx> larsu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1410461/
<larsu> bcurtiswx, your gmail webapp has 7 sources, each with 0 new things, all of them marked as drawing attention (effectively making the icon blue)
<larsu> bcurtiswx, please file a bug against unity-webapps
<bcurtiswx> larsu, OK. will do. BRB with number
<larsu> bcurtiswx, thanks
<bcurtiswx> no ubuntu-bug unity-webapps capability . goign to LP site
<larsu> bcurtiswx, I'm sorry, the package name is unity-webapps-common
<larsu> but it might be that ubuntu-bug doesn't work with that one either
<bcurtiswx> larsu, seems to have worked :)
<bcurtiswx> larsu, bug #1086435
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086435 in webapps-applications (Ubuntu) "unity-webapps draw attention where none is warranted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086435
<larsu> bcurtiswx, thanks
<bcurtiswx> larsu, yw
<bcurtiswx> good job rickspencer3  ;)
<rickspencer3> hi bcurtiswx
<rickspencer3> thanks :)
<robru> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww yisssssssss!
<robru> I woke up in time for the meeting ;-)
<kenvandine> robru, yay :)
<robru> kenvandine, hey, how are you?
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> and you?
<robru> kenvandine, great!
<robru> kenvandine, did you merge my mp yet? I hope not because I dreamt of ways to improve it ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, kenvandine, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, attente, tkamppeter__: hey, it's meeting time in 3 minutes
<robru> seb128, morning!
<seb128> (well, no Laney this week)
<seb128> robru, hey, how is east canada today? ;-)
<robru> seb128, east? I couldn't be further from there ;-)
<seb128> doh, dyslexia kicking in again it seems :p
<seb128> west I meant ;-)
<cyphermox> o/
<robru> west coast is best coast ;-)
<desrt> hey hey
<cyphermox> robru: pffft
<robru> ;-)
<desrt> ontario and quebec own this country
<seb128> they don't speak french there, can't be the best coast...
<cyphermox> ;)
<desrt> go back to alberta!!
<robru> LOL
<robru> desrt, ontario and quebec may own us politically, but how are you enjoying the snow? it's +10 here ;-)
<desrt> no snow here
<desrt> you're confusing us with winnipeg
<robru> well, winnipeg has a foot of snow already. so glad to be out of that dump
<bcurtiswx>  i do like canada... would rather live there..
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, attente, tkamppeter__: it's meeting time
 * mlankhorst pretends work stuff
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-12-04
<seb128> mlankhorst, no, playing steam game all day is not working on X!
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<desrt> i've noticed that portal isn't available...
<desrt> i have to figure that's intentional
<qengho> *Somebody* has to test!
<desrt> in order to not derail the development of 13.04
<bcurtiswx> lol
<mlankhorst> also upstreamed some ttm patches, rest has to wait 3 weeks for the reviewer to come back, but will likely go in as well.. first renamed packages in -proposed
<mlankhorst> eod :p
<robru> am I the only one who can't run steam? intel/raring, it doesn't even launch
<seb128> I didn't try yet to be honest
 * desrt did it last night
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<robru> extra frustrating because it *was* working, then it updated and broke
<robru> right
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, how are you? weekly "what you are working on" summary? ;-)
<seb128> no Sweetshark...
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Hiya.
<qengho> desktop-r-chromiumbrowser-improvements
<qengho> a) Building new release 23.0.1271.95 in PPA!
<qengho> b) Working on two architecture problems:
<qengho> b1) a powerpc build failure because upstream build-deps didn't consider it.  This makes me consider switching away from "all" architecture to specific listing.
<qengho> b2) the build system doesn't disable NEON opimizations on ARM even when asked to.
<qengho> c) Nearly done getting #security releasing previous stable build to all releases.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> b1) joining chrisccoulson on the powerpc hater list?
<seb128> (lot of people on that list btw :-)
<qengho> Hah.  I like the CPU itself!  :(
<Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice 3.6.4 prepared, bibliography hooks done (modulo a few cornercases), upstream branch-off of 4.0 today.
<qengho> Second only to Alpha!
<chrisccoulson> i hate it ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<qengho> chrisccoulson: But it has *so many registers!*
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> qengho, good job, nice to see chromium getting in shape across the board ;-)
<qengho> Anyway, support sucks.  So, maybe.
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<qengho> seb128: thanks.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your turn ;-)
<bcurtiswx> qengho, will there be a chromium updates for 12.04 ?
<chrisccoulson> i've been working on making the menubar in firefox testable this week
<chrisccoulson> in addition to adding some distro-specific tests for firefox when i think of them too
<qengho> bcurtiswx: it's landing any second now, all the way back to Lucid.  Modulo the ARM problem that will get fixed this week.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, transitioning to gmenumodel on the way? ;-)
 * bcurtiswx hugs qengho 
<chrisccoulson> seb128, heh ;)
<chrisccoulson> you want me to break it now it works perfectly? ;)
<seb128> that's not how we roll here? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> seems to be what #ps keeps doing :p
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey!
<didrocks> advanced on daily landing, still more review, now 25 projects bootstrap!
<didrocks> Trying to get unity in a releasable state which is quite challenging. Just debunked a cmake change making unity in a weird state. Daily landing plumbings done for this stack, just need unity to have some more testing before a big first landing which is the most risky one.
<didrocks> ..
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, great to see the progresses and the daily landing to work fine for the part where it's enabling
<didrocks> yeah, it's good to see that working :)
<seb128> *enabled
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> SRUs still in unapproved:
<kenvandine>   gnome-control-center-signon 11/13
<kenvandine>   unity-chromium-extension since 11/15
<kenvandine>   gwibber (precise) since 10/18
<kenvandine> I'll try to ping RAOF again about those
<kenvandine> Reviewing packages for thoroughness of tests before enabling autolanding to ubuntu.  We will do manual uploads using the inline packaging from trunk periodically until we feel the testing is sufficent for autolanding.
<kenvandine> Worked with robru to start adding some async APIs to friends and libfriends
<kenvandine> EOF
<seb128> kenvandine, the SRU queue has shrinked by half this week, I think they are trying to clean it before holidays so finger crosses, let me know if those need to land I can try to do some poking
<seb128> kenvandine, when are you holidays? end of week?
<kenvandine> they cleared out most of mine
<kenvandine> monday is my last day for the year :)
<seb128> waouh
<kenvandine> :-D
<seb128> last meeting then
<seb128> have fun ;-)
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> i am sure i will :)
<seb128> I think a bunch of us will be on holidays start next week for eoy
 * seb128 looks at chrisccoulson and didrocks and some others who didn't take holidays as well
<kenvandine> yeah, it'll be a ghost town
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<didrocks> well, still a week!
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll be on holiday from next week :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey, anything you did out of gaming? ;-)
<seb128> I guess he went back to play some steam games ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> hey hey
<mlankhorst> seb128: well what I said earlier
<mlankhorst> getting stuff in upstream kernels, and getting things finally into precise-proposed
<cyphermox> I've been debugging an annoying blocker bug with NM in DHCP, that was affecting daily iso testing; other than that it's keeping up and finishing with indicators
<cyphermox> ..
<cyphermox> fwiw, the bug 1084064
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1084064 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Can not ssh to raring VM's using hostname" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084064
<seb128> mlankhorst, good to see stuff landing for precise ... are things on track for lts .2?
<mlankhorst> I would believe so
<seb128> cool
<seb128> cyphermox, speaking of indicators, how are the failing tests going? I think I understood that was blocking daily landing of e.g indicator-session?
 * seb128 wants to see indicator-session rolling daily, especially that robert_ancell is working on fixing the "reboot fails when other users are logged in"
<cyphermox> looking after it
<cyphermox> yeah. :/
<seb128> do you need help? any ETA on the fix?
<cyphermox> waiting after charles/larsu, basically
<seb128> it has been a while, we should get that resolved sooner than later with holidays coming
<seb128> cyphermox, we should maybe help them, they seem to be busy on other things atm
<seb128> anyway, let's discuss that off meeting
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> mterry, hey, welcome back, had a good long w.e? ;-)
<mterry> Yeah  :)  I don't have much to report, as I was on holiday.  Chewed through plenty of emails this morning though.  EOF
<didrocks> mterry: that's why I'm waiting tomorrow before annoying you :)
<mterry> :)
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> robru, hey ... I lost count of your work day, not sure if you were off while moving or worked inbetween? anyway if you have a status update feel free to share ;-)
<seb128> works day*s*
<robru> seb128, hey. I did do some work even though I was officially on holiday ;-)
<seb128> unstoppable bob ;-)
<robru> * last tuesday I implemented some infrastructure to make image uploads easier/possible in lp:friends
<robru> * yesterday I added some async APIs on top of that previous work
<robru> * today I'm gonna make the async stuff better and more general-purpose ;-)
<robru> .. ;-)
<mterry> robru, you're back now though?
<robru> yep, back for good!
<seb128> robru, thanks
<robru> seb128, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<mterry> robru, welcome  :)
<robru> mterry, thanks!
<attente> hi seb128, hi everyone :)
<seb128> attente, still fighting menus I assume? ;-)
<attente> overall, this week was negative progress for me
<attente> i started off the week by fixing the action names to be more reasonable than memory addresses
<attente> the rest of the week i had to spend re-writing some code to fix the gedit "Empty" menu item bug, as well as improve the overall architecture
<attente> so now i have to re-implement the action group stuff to work with the new code
<attente> the plan this week is fix action groups -> fix xprops/GtkApplication bug -> build PPAs for testing
<attente> ..
<attente> still fighting i guess :)
<seb128> hehe, keep the good work, I'm looking forward having a ppa version to test before holidays maybe, let's see ;-)
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter__, hey
<attente> thanks seb128
<seb128> no tkamppeter__?
<seb128> let's move on
<seb128> so me, I've been doing some SRUS for precise .2 and quantal, desktop bug fixes, some bug triaging, quite some sponsoring
<seb128> if you have some spare cycle (or even if you don't try to make some) please help on sponsoring this week, Daniel keeps making calls for helps and I know quite some of us tend to get busy and miss shifts
<seb128> so it's a good moment early in the cycle to take a few hours and help to get that queue cleaned before holidays
<ogra_> a great way to fill your vacation :)
<seb128> they are keeping track of who didn't do their shift also and it would be good if those who didn't do any recently were getting their names off the list before getting in trouble for it
<robru> seb128, hey. I see those calls from Daniel. how can I help with this? I feel bad for ignoring his calls but I don't know how to help
<seb128> robru, http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<seb128> robru, look at that list, pick anything you feel like you could comment on/give a code review (often things are small, they are patches from new contributors)
<seb128> robru, like there are small python patches for software-properties or update-manager I'm sure you could review and comment on
<robru> seb128, wow, thanks. nobody ever showed me that list before ;-)
<robru> but I'm not able to directly sponsor, just reviews right? still need somebody else to sponsor
<seb128> robru, it's in the email from Daniel :p
<robru> ok ;-)
<seb128> robru, yeah, review is fine, any help is welcome ... uploading is not the hard part ;-)
<seb128>  
<seb128> that was it from me
<robru> great
<robru> thanks
<seb128> is there any other comment/questions/note/...?
<seb128> seems not, that's a wrap then, thanks everyone
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> robru: maybe you can help cyphermox to get the latest pieces in places? so that at least the whole indicator stack is daily-landing :)
<mlankhorst> seb128: well since you asked, I added it as item on the wiki for what I have done this week. :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> robru: there also gcovr to package if you feel it :)
<didrocks> (well, to package "right" ;))
<robru> didrocks, can you email me some details about that? I'm about to lose internet
<didrocks> robru: I'll ask cyphermox to get a list for you about what is remaining to do :)
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<robru> didrocks, kenvandine: in fact I've gotta go run to the library, will be back on in an hour or so
<didrocks> cyphermox: can you do that? ^
<cyphermox> didrocks: yup
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<bcurtiswx> aww, what happened to "create new file" with Nautilus ?
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: http://askubuntu.com/questions/208291/how-to-create-a-new-blank-file-in-nautilus-3-6
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, then the bug is that there's no "default" template
<seb128> bcurtiswx, that "no default template" discussion is as old as ubuntu I think ;-)
<bcurtiswx> well, it's a regression now that nautilus doesn't provide a "new file" option. right?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, unless they intended for that to happen.. IDK
<seb128> bcurtiswx, they intended the menu to not be cluttered by an entry you don't use
<seb128> so the entry is only there if you have templates
<seb128> the discussion on whether we should install templates or not and which ones is ooold though
<bcurtiswx> seb128, hmm I can see a ton of bugs with "where's my 'new file' option go", yay.. :P
<seb128> which is a bit orthogonal, but people complain for ages that they don't know how to add templates and that the "empty file" entry is useless ... so the new behaviour is not much of a regression
<seb128> bcurtiswx, I'm not sure so many people like to create empty files to be honest...
<seb128> it would perhaps be useful if it included stuff like libreoffice documents
<sarnold> touch /etc/nologin  :)
 * didrocks was a big fan of templates file, but now, I really wonder of having some by default
<didrocks> seems that we are moving away from file management in general, so maybe it's not the natural way of creating a file
<bcurtiswx> seb128, good thought with L-O idea.
<bcurtiswx> well, my file management is heading towards google drive (cloud), I wonder what the future of that will be. I'm a data guy, so I would dread a death to large data drives
<seb128> mlankhorst, is there a "xserver-xorg-lts-quantal" I can install on my precise somewhere to test thing and where is the somewhere?
<desrt> Mimiko: hi
<Mimiko> hi
<desrt> how are you today?
<Mimiko> its alright.
<Mimiko> do we know each other?
<desrt> nope.  just saying hi.
<desrt> what are you working on?
<Mimiko> right now nothing. its late so I am just rest
<desrt> what timezone are you in?
<Mimiko> its gmt+2 so about 20 hours )
<Mimiko> you?
<desrt> -5
<Mimiko> eastern america?
<desrt> yes
<Mimiko> oh its afternoon
<Mimiko> having a meal?
<desrt> nope.  waiting for some compiles :)
<Mimiko> they'll bring some meal to eat?
<Mimiko> or to have fun wih them? ))
<desrt> i'm waiting for software to compile
<jbicha> Mimiko: I think desrt just likes your name :)
<Mimiko> oh, thats what. what is that about? the software?
<Mimiko> jbicha, I don't mind
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> mterry, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672245 seems to be waiting on update from your part (in case you didn't notice)
<ubot2> Gnome bug 672245 in libgnome-desktop "[power]: gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in gnome_rr_screen_get_dpms_mode()" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<mterry> seb128, oh god, I remember putting that on a TODO list a while ago.  Thanks for the notice
<mterry> must have lost that list
<seb128> mterry, yw ;-)
<mlankhorst> seb128: ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/q-lts-backport
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<mlankhorst> requires -proposed to be enabled, I'm deleting packages when they show up there
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, context is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1034090 ... I just SRUed a g-s-d fix
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034090 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Precise) "Hotkeys not functional after upgrade to quantal's xorg (new xinput version)" [High,In progress]
<seb128> mlankhorst, if you have a real box running the backported stack can you confirm that multimedia keys are current broken in precise with the new xinput?
<mlankhorst> worksforme?
<seb128> mlankhorst, :-(
<mlankhorst> but I use kde
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mlankhorst, that's a gnome-settings-daemon issue, need to be tested under GNOME ;-)
<seb128> mlankhorst, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/patch/?id=9d23fac4ce927cd27964323aa4cf8138e5128ba0
<seb128> mlankhorst, well anyway, I SRUed the fix, I will try to test it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can I tell firefox to let my pdfs alone?
 * seb128 just had to rewrite a SRU testcase because he clicked on a pdf on the launchpad page and firefox decided it was a good idea to take me out my page and cancel my editing to open the file over the page I was using
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know if somebody suggested they should open those at least in a new tab rather than taking over the page that contain the pdf you clicked on?
<jbicha> seb128: which version of Firefox are you using? you're using the built-in PDF viewer?
<seb128> jbicha, 18 beta from raring
<seb128> jbicha, yes, I'm using that, but I didn't opt in, the update forced it on me instead...
<seb128> which makes me want my evince back :p
<bjsnider> anybody know for sure what it takes in gnome for an app to be associated with an extension?
<seb128> bjsnider, you mean extension or mimetype?
<seb128> the mimetype can be guessed from the filename or from the content
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: I thought pdfjs by default wasn't until FF19
<bjsnider> seb128, extension
<seb128> bjsnider, look to /usr/share/mime ... usually /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml for the definitions, you will have things like:
<seb128> <mime-type type="sometype">
<seb128> ... ="*.something"
<seb128> which links the .something to the mimetype
<jbicha> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/files-open.html or for some things look in System Settings>Details>Default Applications
<seb128> then .desktop in /usr/share/applications has to claim that type in MimeType=
<robert_ancell> larsu, hey, when is that indicator patch to libunity landing?
<bjsnider> as of quantal mkvtoolnix isn't being associated with video-x-matroska files anymore
<robert_ancell> tedg, ping
<tedg> Good morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> tedg, hey, I have an indicator/dbus-menu problem that I need some pointers to debug
<tedg> Pointers are evil.  Use Python :-)
<robert_ancell> tedg, I have an indicator in lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/bluetooth-indicator. When I add submenus to menu items the menu items loose their labels
<tedg> robert_ancell, Whoa!  That's trippy.
<tedg> robert_ancell, GMenu or Dbusmenu?
<robert_ancell> tedg, dbusmenu. I would use gmenu but the API for that is not available yet right?
<tedg> robert_ancell, No, it is.  You just have to turn it into a GTK menu in the .so.
<tedg> robert_ancell, Just not the fancy only use GMenu and never use GTK.
<tedg> robert_ancell, indicator-messages is all GMenu in 12.10
<robert_ancell> tedg, I'm using appindicator3-0.1 for now, what method is that?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Oh, don't use appindicator, that really shouldn't be used for anything that is default.
<tedg> It's only for extending the base desktop.
<robert_ancell> tedg, it was just the fastest way to test it
<tedg> robert_ancell, Hmm... okay.  I'm a bit worried it'll gain a life of it's own :-)
<tedg> robert_ancell, Do if you're doing that you can use dbusmenu-dumper to see what's going on.
<robert_ancell> tedg, what pacakge?
<tedg> robert_ancell, It's in dbusmenu-tools.
<tedg> robert_ancell, You'll need the object path and dbus name, you'll have to get it in d-feet
<tedg> robert_ancell, apt://libdbusmenu-tools
<robert_ancell> tedg, no such package
<robert_ancell> ah, ta
<robert_ancell> tedg, btw, can we do "switch" UI elements with dbusmenu?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Dbusmenu, yes.  libappindicator, not really.
<tedg> robert_ancell, To do that in libappindicator you need to use the internal dbusmenu object and tweak it.
<robert_ancell> tedg, is it just a hint?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Basically, yes.  Dbusmenu is just basically a tree of a{sv}.  You need to set the properties.
<robert_ancell> tedg, ok, got the dumper, how do I find the dbus paths>?
<tedg> robert_ancell, I'm not 100% indicator-application can parse all of those properties though... I'd have to check.
<tedg> robert_ancell, Just look in d-feet, that's the easiest.
<robert_ancell> in there, what am I looking for?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Look for the connection from your process.  Then it should have a path like /com/canonical/appindicator/$id/menu
 * tedg doesn't remember exactly
<robert_ancell> which bus object?
<robert_ancell> tedg, ^
<tedg> Ah, yeah, the one above.
<tedg> It ends in menu.
<robert_ancell> tedg, the closest I am seeing is com.canonical.indicator.*
<tedg> robert_ancell, Ah, actually it's /org/ayatana/NotificationItem/$id/Menu
<tedg> robert_ancell, The dbus name is determined by your app.  If you don't set one it'll be :1.$i
<robert_ancell> oh, ok
<robert_ancell> tedg, ok, the dumper shows the menu as correct, but it's not rendering right
<robert_ancell> tedg, actually, not it looks wrong
<robert_ancell> it looks like dbus-menu thinks the menu items are separators
<robert_ancell> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1411036/
<tedg> robert_ancell, GtkBuilder?
<robert_ancell> tedg, nope, just straight Vala
<robert_ancell> tedg, note they do show if I just use a GtkMenuBar or I remove the submenus
<robert_ancell> If I use straight GtkMenuItems instead of my own classes they still don't show
<tedg> Hmm, interesting.  I wonder how it gets to that state...
<tedg> robert_ancell, So I'd say its on the side of your process, but probably in libdbusmenu-gtk's parser.c
<tedg> I'd try a dump with using the straight up GtkMenuItem's instead of subclasses just to see if the results are the same.
<tedg> I'd believe that we had a subclassing error, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't a different case.
<achiang> desrt: ping?
<robert_ancell> tedg, yeah, I removed the subclassing because I thought the same but still the same problem
<tedg> robert_ancell, Nobody subclasses in GObject, too much pain :-)
<robert_ancell> tedg, that's why they invented Vala
<tedg> No, that's why they invented C++, but that got WAY out of control :-)
<robert_ancell> tedg, worked it out
<robert_ancell> tedg, if you add a menu item without a label, then add a label later appindicator3-0.1 thinks it is a separator
<tedg> robert_ancell, Oh, what was it?
<tedg> Ah, hmm, I thought we had that case...
<robert_ancell> that dump tool is handy
<tedg> Yeah, with applications you can execute it without a path and click on the app too.
<tedg> Cool feature agateau added.
<chrisccoulson> jbicha, i'm not sure what release it's shipped by default in. i've been using it for months in nightly so i lose track of when things landed
<GunnarHj> charles: ping
<charles> hi GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> charles: Hello
<GunnarHj> charles: Hello!
<GunnarHj> charles: Getting back to you about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687945
<ubot2> Gnome bug 687945 in i18n "Display names of days and months using the current language" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<GunnarHj> charles: Have you had a chance to take a closer look at it?
<charles> I'd still prefer the change to into a general-purpose location like glib
<charles> imo it doesn't make as much sense to do it patchwork in different apps
<charles> but at the same time, it doesn't look like that ticket is going anywhere fast
<GunnarHj> charles: Unfortunately true. I thought it might help if you, as the main maintainer of indicator-datetime, added a comment to that glib bug.
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, hey, did you talk to tedg about indicator-network?
<charles> GunnarHj: tbh I don't feel very strongly about the actual feature, either for or against. My main concern is avoiding duplicate code everywhere that dates are shown
<GunnarHj> charles: Ok, I see.
<charles> gunnarhj: if we do this at the indicator level, we could use your code to make some namespace-appropriate version of the g_date_time_format() that you've got in that bgo patch
<charles> iirc the datetime patch we had before relied on some assumptions about the format strings that we pass into strftime, and those might change:
<charles> at some point we may want to expose a format string config option in dconf-editor, though not visible in g-c-c
<desrt> achiang: hi
<achiang> desrt: hey, i'm not too familiar with how upstream gtk-devel works. i sent a pretty trivial patch over the weekend, but got no responses. can you help me navigate the waters?
<desrt> achiang: bugzilla + IRC pings are usually the best approach
<GunnarHj> charles: Sorry, but now you are talking above my head... "namespace-appropriate version" - do you mean patching glib in Ubuntu?
<desrt> lemme see if i can find your mail
<desrt> achiang: ya.. .that's definitely the sort of thing that should be a bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
<GunnarHj> charles: Don't think that the indicator-datetime patch relied on any particular assumptions.
<desrt> achiang: also: git-format-patch formatted patches are preferred
<charles> GunnarHj: noooo not patching glib
<charles> I just meant that indicator functions shouldn't start with g_ :)
<charles> GunnarHj: desrt and seb128 would kill us both
<achiang> desrt: interesting. so they don't take patches on the mailing list...
<GunnarHj> charles: Ok. :)
<desrt> achiang: mailing list is for higher-level discussions
<charles> and with some good reason :)
<desrt> gnome in general makes very very heavy use of bugzilla
<achiang> desrt: was my patch malformed, btw?
<desrt> achiang: we prefer git-format patches
<desrt> since they come along with their own author information and commit messages
<desrt> but the patch is 'fine'
<achiang> desrt: ok, i'll work on that then. as for getting it SRU'ed, what's the easiest way to get that done?
<desrt> achiang: anyway... i don't agree with your fix
<desrt> notice this line:
<desrt>       dir_mtime->dir = path;
<desrt> then
<desrt>       priv->dir_mtimes = g_list_prepend (priv->dir_mtimes, dir_mtime);
<desrt> so it's not correct to free() path
<GunnarHj> charles: I think we should wait and see for some time. Think I'll add yet another comment to the glib bug, btw. ;-) Suggest we talk more about it if and when it's time to give up as regards the proposed glib change.
<achiang> desrt: d'oh, you are completely right. i knew there was something i was missing
<achiang> desrt: thanks
<desrt> i'll reply to the list so people know the issue is closed
<achiang> desrt: thanks. and next time, yeah, bugzilla + irc pings. thanks
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: ah! I did not
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, np, I'll catch him tomorrow. I was talking to him and just remembered after he signed off
<cyphermox> ok, cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-05
<robru> cyphermox, ping
<RAOF> Have I mentioned before how much I loathe SRU review of vala projects?
<RAOF> GAH
<TheMuso> RAOF: I can imagine, generally a vala + c diff correct?
<RAOF> Indeed.
<TheMuso> That puzzles me, the C files really don't need to be shipped.
<TheMuso> At least thats what I thought.
<RAOF> And the C is entirely impenetrable, but a near-irresistible lure for review eyeball.
<RAOF> AIUI the recommended process for shipping vala is to generate the C at dist time, and not use vala at build time.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<TheMuso> Yeah the C is interesting to read.
<RAOF> This seems about as sensible to me as shipping the assembler generated by gcc as the source form.
<TheMuso> hahaha
<TheMuso> I agree.
<RAOF> Ok. There's an evening ping for kenvandine pending.
<ritz> robert_ancell morning
<robert_ancell> ritz, hello
<ritz> robert_ancell https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1071870 any thoughts ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1071870 in Light Display Manager "Dont verify the presence of .face file " [Undecided,New]
<ritz> this would be seen when accountsservice is disabled
<robert_ancell> ritz, right, why not just disable the user list in this case?
<robert_ancell> ritz, the problem of removing this code is then you can't reliably let a greeter know where the user icon is
<robert_ancell> which is something that accounts service solved
<ritz> robert_ancell hmm, is it really required that the greeter know the user icon reliably ?
<veebers> Hi all, after a dist-upgrade when I ssh into my test machine, I don't seem to be able to connect to the SessionBus as expected.
<robert_ancell> ritz, yes, otherwise how can it display the icon?
<ritz> I am new to this, and not sure.
<robert_ancell> ritz, the problem was there wasn't a consistent name for the icon
<veebers> a terminal on the machine itself works as expected, but not over ssh. using a python shell to test, when creating a SessionBus object, I seem to be getting something that's not the session bus back (i.e.  no com.canonical.Unity)
<veebers> would anyone be able to shed some light on this?
<ritz_> robert_ancell sorry, was dc.
<ritz_> robert_ancell how about lazy loadin this property ?
<ritz_> only when this property is queried for
<ritz_> when AccountsService is disabled
<robert_ancell> ritz_, yes, that would be fine
<ritz_> would this be an acceptable fix ?
<thumper> hi folks
<ritz_> cool. thanks. will look this up
<thumper> does anyone know when glib reads the environment for determining the XDG path for finding desktop files?
<thumper> I'm wanting to control the path for some unit tests
<thumper> do I need to modify the path before glib is initialized?
<thumper> or does it look at the environment each time?
<robert_ancell> ritz_, yes, I've updated the bug to say that
<ritz_> oh, I had not refreshed ther page
<robert_ancell> ritz_, I only did it a few second ago :)
<mdeslaur> duflu: so, apparently you're the person I need to bribe to get bug 1037164 fixed...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037164 in compiz (Ubuntu Quantal) "Clicking on snapped windows in a different workspace produce unexpected results" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037164
<mdeslaur> duflu: do you like scotch? :)
<duflu> mdeslaur: One the phone
<duflu> -e
<duflu> mdeslaur: You would have to convince the squad lead and/or JohnLea and Olli to get something like that on the priority lists. Yes, I like scotch but seem to have plenty in reserve right now :)
<mdeslaur> d'oh :)
<mdeslaur> this stupid bug has been driving me insane since natty
<mdeslaur> duflu: who's the squad lead?
<duflu> mdeslaur: What would be better would be to encourage more community contribution of fixes. We love them
<duflu> mdeslaur: bregma
<duflu> mdeslaur: In the mean time, you can probably just turn off the Snapping Windows plugin in CCSM. Does that help?
<mdeslaur> uh, good question, let me check
<mdeslaur> duflu: unfortunately not, even with that plugin disabled, the window moves half-way into the next workspace
<duflu> mdeslaur: OK, thanks. And sorry. Using quantal?
<mdeslaur> yeah
<duflu> mdeslaur: I'll keep in mind for when I don't feel like paying attention to the priority lists :)
<mdeslaur> duflu: hehe, thanks
<cyphermox> robru: pong?
<cyphermox> still around?
<robru> cyphermox, oh hey, I am just heading out the door actually
<robru> cyphermox, I sent you an email
<cyphermox> ok!
<robru> g'night!
<didrocks> good morning!
<RAOF> didrocks: Yo!
<didrocks> hey RAOF! double bath time soon? :)
<RAOF> Yeah, I guess so.
<RAOF> ZoÃ«'s asleep at the moment, though.
<didrocks> otherwise, how are things going? :)
<RAOF> Would you be askable about the Precise Unity 2d SRU?
<didrocks> RAOF: I think it's Mirv only, it's quite far from my head ;)
<didrocks> mirv should be around btw :)
<didrocks> RAOF: I remember having to ask for some reverts, that's it
<didrocks> and they are done IIRC before I uploaded that
<RAOF> I think you might have missed some :)
<didrocks> urgh? what do you see as irrelevant?
<didrocks> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/trunk
<didrocks> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/trunk/revision/1142
<RAOF> Or, more to the point, there seems to be some refactoring in there that may be fixing a bug, but the bug that it might be fixing isn't filed in Launchpad.
<didrocks> as you can see, I asked for more than on revert :)
<didrocks> but just to check I didn't sponsor the wrong .changes?
<didrocks> you don't see those, right?
<RAOF> No, I don't see those.
<didrocks> ok, at least, we are on a common ground :)
<RAOF> Some of the âbugsâ that it fixes seem a bit shaky for an SRU - there seemed to be a couple of âchange this behaviour to be betterâ bugs. The change that I'm least sure of is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/977262 , though.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 977262 in unity-2d (Ubuntu Precise) "Unity 2D doesn't load 24 bit icons" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Mirv> RAOF: hello
<Mirv> RAOF: although sil2100 was the one who worked on that, I just pinged about it :)
<didrocks> Mirv: can you see that with RAOF? I'll read the scrollback, but I'm on the unity release :)
<didrocks> RAOF: ah this one, we had a big debate about it, but design convinced me in the end
<didrocks> RAOF: it's more "loading the good quality", so enhancement, which is seen as a "bug" for design
<didrocks> (to load crappy icons)
<didrocks> RAOF: maybe it's part of those where we decided to ask charline about those?
<didrocks> (also, we only have ? for some of them when they only provide a 24 bits icon)
<didrocks> and this can be seen as a bug to be fixed
<RAOF> No, I'm not concerned with that bug being SRUable; it seems reasaonable to fix.
<didrocks> ah, it's about the code itself?
<RAOF> It's just not clear to me what part of that bug is actually being fixed in 5.14.0-0ubuntu1, and the code doesn't help much.
<Mirv> the commit message is [lib] Support 24 bit pixbuf to QImage conversion (e.g. for kmag icon in Launcher)
<Mirv> and additionally another commmit that fixes the colormapping
<Mirv> (from the merges linked in the bug report)
<RAOF> The diff between what's currently in precise-proposed and what's in 5.14.0 - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/121657028/unity-2d_5.12.0-0ubuntu1.2_5.14.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz - only seems to be changing it so that 3-channel pixmaps don't get RGB-byteswapped.
<RAOF> Although it does it in an SRU-unfriendly way by renaming variables and changing indentation :)
<RAOF> Is that the change that's expected? It does not appear to match the bug description - AFAICT it's *not* adding support for 24bit pixmaps, just changing the handling of the colour channels.
<Mirv> RAOF: good point, it was already fixed in 5.12 and only the last commit (https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity-2d/more_24_bit_stuff/+merge/105797) is now in 5.14
<Mirv> ie. loading more types of 24bit pixmaps correctly
<Mirv> so indeed there is no clear bug decribing which icons do not load correctly, aside from the automated test
<Mirv> terrible diff
<RAOF> *Yes*
<RAOF> Could I therefore please have a bug for the actual problem being fixed? âº
<RAOF> Because as it stands it's highly likely that if I accept the SRU no-one is going to know how to validate that fix.
<RAOF> I'll reject the existing upload. If you upload with the changelog pointing to the new, accurate, bug I'll accept it immediately.
 * RAOF â ZoÃ« bath
<Mirv> I'll ask greyback when he wakes up
<didrocks> pitti: when you have some time, can please have a look at bumping https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4037566? It seems we will miss daily builds again otherwise
 * didrocks now wonders what to do about the unity stack, we wanted to release it today
<didrocks> but if I launch a build of it, powerpc won't ever be built in time
<didrocks> (thanks to whoever bumped it)
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<didrocks> how is the weather in London?
 * pitti gets the score bumping boot
<pitti> didrocks: rainy :)
<didrocks> ah, real UK then!
<pitti> didrocks: well, that thing already built
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, see my 08:26:04 didrocks | (thanks to whoever bumped it)
<duflu> smspillaz: ping
<ogra_> didrocks, hmm, so trying to install from the PPA removes the unity package on my nexus 7 ... and i end up with just nautilus on my desktop
<didrocks> ogra_: yeah, previous build because of a build-dep failed if you look at the ppa :)
<didrocks> ogra_: there is just a rebuild under progress, so armhf should be fine
<didrocks> (it was an arch async)
<ogra_> ok, i'll try again once thats done
<didrocks> ogra_: yeah, builders seems happy and at most will start in an hour on powerpc
<RAOF> Hm. When's Ken going to be on?
<didrocks> probably still in 2-4 hours, you would be in bed I guess ;)
<seb128> didrocks, RAOF: rather 4 hours than 2 ... what's the question/issue?
<didrocks> I guess it's in one of the webapps SRU
<RAOF> seb128: He wanted to prod me about an SRU, I wanted to get some clarification about it.
<seb128> RAOF, which one? I can maybe help providing the infos...
<RAOF> seb128: gnome-control-center-signon - there seems to be some unrelated changes in cc-credentials-accounts-model.vala
<RAOF> seb128: Know about that one?
<duflu> RAOF: ping
<duflu> Ah, there you are
<RAOF> duflu: What's cookin'?
<duflu> RAOF, tvoss: It's been a few months since I did any serious EGL/GLES work, but I'm left scratching my head in disbelief there is no explicit extension for vblank syncing.
<duflu> Is it assumed to be implied by the driver, which hopefully does page flipping?
<RAOF> duflu: SwapBuffers + OML_sync?
 * duflu looks
<RAOF> duflu: http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/OML/glx_sync_control.txt
<seb128> RAOF, looking, but no, seems an undocumented change ... I guess Ken should do another upload with it documented or rolled out
<duflu> RAOF: EGL, not GLX :)
<duflu> How the hell did I miss that in the GLES work? Mebbe it was always implied as part of swapbuffers if implemented as flipping
<duflu> I ask because the Nexus 7 is tearing, and I realized Compiz has no explicit extension support for avoiding that under EGL
<RAOF> duflu: set eglSwapInterval to 1 (or more) + eglSwapBuffers?
<RAOF> Although the default eglSwapInterval should be 1
<duflu> RAOF: OK, I'm clearly blind. Feel free to ignore my stupidity. Still worried about the Nexus though
<RAOF> ( http://www.khronos.org/registry/egl/specs/eglspec.1.4.20110406.pdf )
 * duflu needs more sleep and/or coffee. Maybe not together
<xnox> So we currently have bug 1060327
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060327 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in compiz::opengl::bindTexImageGLX() from TfpTexture::bindTexImage() from ... from GLTexture::bindPixmapToTexture() from DecorTexture::DecorTexture()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060327
<xnox> is this being work on?
<didrocks> xnox: can we avoid having 2 different people asking the same question on 2 different channels?
<didrocks> xnox: so let me copy the question on #ubuntu-release
<didrocks> 11:28:24 didrocks | gema_: is this crash on top of errors.ubuntu.com
<xnox> didrocks: sure which channel should we talk on?
<didrocks> here is fine, but just pick one :)
<RoyK> Why is the 32bit version still flagged as 'preferred'? I mean - there's hardly any 32bit hardware out there, and 32bit isn't very efficient on 4GB RAM or more, and most machines these days have that
<seb128> RoyK, why is it not efficient if you have > 4GB ram?
<mlankhorst> it really isn't..
<mlankhorst> forces kernel to use indirect addressing for high memory
<mlankhorst> although 64-bit kernel with 32-bit userspace is fine most of  the time..
<RoyK> seb128: it uses PAE for anything >2GB, and PAE isn't very efficient comparing to native 64bit addressing
<mlankhorst> RoyK: >2gb? I thought anything above 1 gb would be highmem already with the 3/1g kernel split..
<seb128> RoyK, in any case read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035054.html on the topic
<RoyK> mlankhorst: yeah
<seb128> RoyK, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035088.html was the conclusion
<mlankhorst> I thought it was impossible to boot the 32-bit image on true 32-bit hardware because pae is enabled in the default image? then again I no longer have true 32-bit hardware to test..
<ogra_> mlankhorst, thats only true for non-PAE capable 32bit hardware (i.e. rather old CPUs like P II, some pentium M's etc)
<ogra_> recent 32bit systems should still work fine
<didrocks> ogra_: compiz and unity are still building on armhf, will tell you once done
<ogra_> didrocks, i have the tab open in front of me :)
<ogra_> well, on my most left screen ... not actually in front :)
<didrocks> ogra_: staring! :)
<didrocks> ogra_: but feel free to install them in the desktop
<didrocks> ogra_: and shout if anything bad happens :)
<ogra_> nah, i wont taint my precise desktop install :P
<didrocks> ogra_: hum, I won't comment :p
<ogra_> took me long enough to get a 3 monitor setup working with full 5760x1920 in a usable way
<ogra_> i wont fiddle with that machine :)
<ogra_> i might test on my chromebook raring install though
<ogra_> but thats only arm as well :P
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ©
<codfather>  Good morning from the UK. I would like some help with a question on 12.10 and dnsmasq. Does anyone know where the upstream DNS servers are now stored? They are not in /etc/resolv.conf or /var/run/nm-dns-dnsmasq.conf.
<codfather> any information or pointers to documentation gratefully received - thanks in advance
 * ogra-cb hugs didrocks 
<ogra-cb> didrocks, all PPA stuff seems to work fine on the nexus
<ogra-cb> didrocks, the workspace switcher icon is missing for me though ...
<ogra-cb> shows a "broken icon" image
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I'm reassigning those merge requests, I'm not working on xubuntu or ubuntustudio and I prefer the people from those flavors to decide when is the right time to change their seed for their images
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Please note, though, that they include language-selector-gnome in their seeds, and im-config is a dependency of language-selector-gnome.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, still the people in charge of those images should be the ones doing the merges
<GunnarHj> seb128: I see.
<seb128> GunnarHj, I updated the reviewer for that, but I will make sure things get coordinated so no worry
<GunnarHj> seb128: Great.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sent a reminder to Aron, btw, but haven't heard from him yet.
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, I think I will just merge your changes and we can do a follow up update if he has comments or issues
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sounds good. The function we discussed will still be changed sooner or later. There is a FIXME remark in the file.
<didrocks> 13:44:20   didrocks | ogra-cb: \o/
<didrocks> 13:44:30   didrocks | ogra-cb: broken icon?
<didrocks> 13:44:45   didrocks | ogra-cb: the icon should shows on which ws you are on
 * didrocks hugs ogra-cb back
<ogra-cb> didrocks, well, seems it doesnt find any icon at all ... WS switcher works though
<ogra-cb> i just get the question mark icon for it
<didrocks> interesting
<didrocks> ogra-cb: you do have latest unity-asset-pool isn't it?
<ogra-cb> it has "daily" in the version
<didrocks> so, it should be fine, weird
<didrocks> well, let's not block on that for now
<ogra-cb> 0.8.24daily12.12.03-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> I think you will agree :)
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> 12.12.03?
<ogra-cb> nah, definitely not a blocker
<didrocks> you should have 12.12.05
<didrocks> you did dist-upgrade?
<ogra-cb> ah, intresting
<ogra-cb> yes
<didrocks> apt-cache policy is still telling there is only .03 for you?
<didrocks> (2 days! you are so old!!! ;))
<ogra-cb> oh, a new dist-upgrade call wants to upgrade 31 packages (many unity ones among them)
<ogra-cb> let me run that :)
<ogra-cb> yeah, seems that was caused by my first try where not everything was ready
 * ogra-cb just seems to get 12.12.05 for everything now
 * ogra-cb prays that doesnt regress
<didrocks> interesting :)
<didrocks> ogra-cb: keep me posted!
<ogra-cb> will do
<ogra-cb> didrocks, 12.12.05 works fine, workspace switcher has an icon too now
<ogra-cb> ready to upload i'd say
<ogra-cb> at least from an arm perspective
<didrocks> ogra-cb: waiting on powerpc to finish and will do :)
<didrocks> good good news \o/
<ogra-cb> yeah, thanks so much for the hard work
<didrocks> no worry :)
<psivaa> didrocks: just in case you did not notice in release channel, i could not verify the ppa, in the live session, persistence mode in vms with kvm is not working. but pkill -9 X after the black blank screen brings up the live session properly even without installing the ppa
<didrocks> psivaa: yeah, I did notice, I think, let's try with tommorrow's daily
<didrocks> psivaa: it will get the new stack
<psivaa> didrocks: ack thanks
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<didrocks> only the lens shopping is holding back now! waiting for powerpc to publish!
<ogra-cb> go go go !
<didrocks> ogra-cb: my checker is still saying it's not published (checking every 5 times ;))
<ogra-cb> :)
<didrocks> then, as there are packaging change, I need to ack them ;)
<didrocks> publisher phase now \o/
<didrocks> btw, you can follow that live on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/cu2d/view/Unity%20Head/job/cu2d-unity-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/ :)
<ogra-cb> heh
<didrocks> (it's blocked because of the package_changes, which is to expect as we converted them all to dh9 ;))
 * didrocks makes a second review
<didrocks> ok, all reviewed
<didrocks> now, let's "force" publishing
<ogra_> you publish into the archive out of the PPA ?
<didrocks> yep
<ogra_> wow
<didrocks> now, it's proposing all the packaging changes back to upstream :)
<didrocks> and done \o/ https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/cu2d/view/Unity%20Head/job/cu2d-unity-head-3.0publish/17/console
<didrocks> (all will be merged automatically by the upstream merger)
<ogra_> so next publisher run the raring archive will have it ?
<didrocks> just waiting for a distro sync which isâ¦ now!
<ogra_> yay
<didrocks> 2012-12-05 14:11:07,690 INFO Found packagelist_rsync_cu2d-unity-head
<didrocks> \o/
<dbarth_> desrt: ping?
<didrocks> 2012-12-05 14:11:09,594 ERROR The project unity-scope-gdrive is not in the allowed stack to be copied to distro. Rejecting.
<didrocks> great, I was trying to not refresh the blacklist to test it :)
<didrocks> let's free that one as well
<didrocks> and done :)
<didrocks> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31326392.jpg
<mspencer> mpt: I have another question regarding Contributor Console.
<mpt> mspencer, good
<mpt> :-)
<mspencer> mpt: I have a couple of ideas for features to add to the Bugs panel. Do you want me to file them as bugs even though Contributor Console hasn't been released yet or do you just want me to talk to you directly about new ideas?
<mpt> mspencer, either is fine by me
<desrt> dbarth_: hi
<mspencer> mpt: Okay. What do you think about adding the ability to see bugs that have been reported and the ability to see bugs that have been saved for reporting later?
<mspencer> mpt: Then maybe have a button to get the code for the package a bug is filed for?
<cyphermox> good morning
<desrt> cyphermox: bonjour
<cyphermox> desrt: sup
<desrt> not my brain, yet
<cyphermox> meh, it's before 11am.
<cyphermox> nobody's up that early.
<dbarth_> desrt: hi, i have a questoin about gsettings schema introspection
<dbarth_> desrt: is there an api to determine the type of a key?
<mpt> mspencer, is "the ability to see bugs that have been reported" the same as the "Show Bug Reports" button, or something different?
<desrt> dbarth_: yes.  two, in fact.
<dbarth_> desrt: or am i supposed to be parsing the xml
<dbarth_> ah, nice
<desrt> dbarth_: i have to wonder why you would want to do such a thing, though
<dbarth_> desrt: i'm trying to enumerate unity properties and sync them with u1
<mspencer> mpt: Different. I meant bugs that had been reported by the user.
<dbarth_> desrt: so the code has to be able to determine the type of keys at runtime
<desrt> doesn't the compizconfig abstraction have this information in it?
<mpt> mspencer, oh, I see
<desrt> or are you doing this from outside of compiz?
<dbarth_> desrt: ie, i tell it: go enumerate com.canonical.Unity.Launcher and turn that into a hash that i can send to the u1db api
<desrt> oh.  u*1*.  i saw 'ui' :)
<desrt> dbarth_: right.  okay.
<dbarth_> right, Ubuntu One
<desrt> dbarth_: so first you will want to get a list of all the keys, i guess
<dbarth_> i have that yup
<desrt> that's g_settings_list_keys()
<dbarth_> yup
<desrt> then you can just get each value with g_settings_get_value()
<desrt> and then you can find out its type in a lot of ways
<desrt> depending on how you want to store it....
<mpt> mspencer, that seems like a good idea, indeed :-)
<dbarth_> hmm, i thought i had tried that
<desrt> the easiest thing to do is probably g_variant_print()
<dbarth_> it returns a gvariant, right
<desrt> then you will get a string that you can parse on the other side
<dbarth_> right
<dbarth_> hmm, i remember getting an error with variants, so i tried to use native type instead
<desrt> but you can also query the type if you feel like handling it manually
<desrt> g_variant_get_type()
<dbarth_> maybe that's the python bindings
<dbarth_> ok, i will try that again
<dbarth_> desrt: thanks
<desrt> the python bindings should have OK support for variants
<desrt> since about two years ago
<mpt> mspencer, and seeing bugs that were saved earlier is in that bug report that you originally saw, right?
 * mpt tries to find it
<mpt> mspencer, bug 657275
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 657275 in apport (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-bug should save reports offline automatically rather than giving a cryptic error message" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657275
<mspencer> mpt: Yes.
<mpt> mspencer, so basically you'd like a design for those two?
<mspencer> mpt: Yes, that would be great.
<dbarth_> desrt: g_variant_get_type_string does the trink
<desrt> dbarth_: honestly, i think you should just go straight for g_variant_print(v, TRUE)
<desrt> if you want to step up your game a little, you could say FALSE and re-provide the type information on the other side
<mspencer> mpt: About filing bugs that are feature requests, if I or someone else files one, I'm going to assign it to you, then you design it, then you unassign yourself, right?
<mpt> mspencer, right, I've just done that with bug 657275 and bug 1086825
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 657275 in apport (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-bug should save reports offline automatically rather than giving a cryptic error message" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657275
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086825 in Contributor Console "Can't easily access bug reports I'm involved in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086825
<mspencer> mpt: Okay, thanks.
<mpt> cool
<dbarth_> desrt: ok; getting there
<codfather> I would like some help with a question on 12.10 and dnsmasq. Does anyone know where the upstream DNS servers are now stored? They are not in /etc/resolv.conf or /var/run/nm-dns-dnsmasq.conf.any information or pointers to documentation gratefully received - thanks in advance
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, I'm rejecting evolution-indicator from NEW, src/xutils.c,h are LGPL but debian/copyright only list GPL, we also need a COPYING.LGPL shipped in the source ... can you get those fixed and reupload?
<cyphermox> yup
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<xclaesse> how do I take screenshot of a single window with unity? alt-printscreen takes a shot of the dash because alt open it
<seb128> xclaesse, hum, that's not supposed to happen... only a tap on alt is supposed to open the hud (the dash interface to browse menu)
<seb128> xclaesse, in practice most people re-map the hud away from alt in system settings
<xclaesse> seb128, what actually happens: 1) press alt 2) press printscreen 3) release printscreen (shot is not yet take) 4) release alt and dash opens then shot is taken
<seb128> xclaesse, for some reason the take screenshot is ctrl-printscreen here
<seb128> I wonder if I remapped it :p
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, why didn't i discover JS proxies before!
<mvo> mterry: is it intentional that update-manager -d only shows information about the new release after all updates are installed? looking at the code it is, but it will be confusing for some users (well, me at least :)
<mterry> mvo, it was intentional since I thought that's the recommended way to upgrade (i.e. to make sure that users have latest update manager and all that
<mvo> mterry: right, its generally a good idea I was just confused that there is no indication that the new release is available in the UI and only after applying the missing updates it was there. not a big deal, just wanted to mention it
<mterry> mvo, yeah I'm fine with that.  I think that's how the spec is written too.
<mvo> ok
<didrocks> mterry: hey, how are you?
<mterry> didrocks, good.  I've been running the PPA.  No obvious problems
<didrocks> mterry: it's in the distro right now \o/
<didrocks> so we got our first daily release (but without autopilot, just dogfooding)
<kenvandine> yay!
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> mterry: so, now that we are back to a normal life, I let the merge reviews under your vigilance :)
<mterry> didrocks, hah, OK
<didrocks> mterry: FYI, I fixes some mismatch in the build-deps
<didrocks> mterry: however, nux has a lot of rdepends in the .pc file not listed in its -dev
<didrocks> (I blame the merging of multiple .so)
<mterry> didrocks, I noticed you also did a set of changelog updates a while back.  Did I miss some things or were there just parallel uploads to raring?
<didrocks> mterry: some were parallel uploads, but some were missing :)
<mterry> didrocks, ah well.  Thanks!
<didrocks> mterry: not a biggie, now that's done, will be easier to catch I guess!
<didrocks> mterry: I plan to discuss later this week about how the daily process work in depth
<didrocks> mterry: for the nux thingy, just ping me (or I'll watch)
<didrocks> mterry: oh, and btw http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity is resolved (well almost, some are still not merged)
<didrocks> can you track them?
<didrocks> and note everything not compliant :)
<mterry> didrocks, what's the nux thingy again?
<didrocks> mterry: oh, if you look at the -dev
<mterry> didrocks, OK
<didrocks> it doesnt dep on every requirement of the .pc
<didrocks> doesn't*
<didrocks> so I guess a sanity check (even if we are the only nux project :p)
<mterry> didrocks, OK, I'll try to keep on top of branches without tests for ya
<didrocks> thank you!
<mterry> didrocks, and I'll do a pass on nux and try to propose a review
<didrocks> excellent, thanks a lot :)
<mterry> kenvandine, btw, you should be able to run deja-dup's trunk tests again
<kenvandine> mterry, cool, i'll try
<didrocks> mterry: kenvandine: cyphermox: I think I'll give you a short introduction to this daily-build thingy, do you prefer before those holidays or after?
<kenvandine> after please... i'll be out for the rest of the year and will surely forget everything :)
<didrocks> ok ;) making sense, I'll maybe just give mterry some introduction first as he will be the only desktop soldier starting on 14th
<didrocks> kenvandine: seb128: do you know why we have debian/places in ubuntu-mono btw?
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> mterry: we'll all think about you! (while drinking and celebrating) :-)
<kenvandine> didrocks, i don't
<mterry> hah
<didrocks> kenvandine: I'm about to kill that if seb128 doesn't answer in 3
<didrocks> 2
<didrocks> 1
<seb128> didrocks, no
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> ok, let's move it!
<seb128>   [Paul Sladen]
<seb128>   Pre-caching: buildd build fails to pick up underlying raster wallpaper
<seb128>   from 'ubuntu-wallpapers', leaving the icon empty unless highlighted.
<didrocks> I saw that, its not enlightening to me :)
<seb128> didrocks, the bzr log says ... which was when they tried to include the wallpaper image in the svg ... which was great because it made stuff like nautilus take one extra second to start because it was resizing wallpapers to fit in each icon size variant ...
<didrocks> ah that
<didrocks> you enjoyed it!
<seb128> yeah, so much that I nuked it :p
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> so moving the .png
<didrocks> and installing the new ones
 * didrocks is a bzr mv away ;)
<mspencer> mpt: I've got another idea - what about adding an option to open Bazaar Explorer (shown only if it is installed) when getting the code for a package/project?
<seb128> didrocks, drop the debian/rules "# Go on! Give up; admit defeat by the buildd. " hack as well I think
<mpt> mspencer, sure, good idea
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I saw it
<didrocks> it's horrible
<didrocks> I'm waiting for robru who started on it
<didrocks> and will probably finish and do the cping
<mspencer> mpt: Should I report that as a bug and assign you to it?
<mpt> mspencer, ok :-)
<mspencer> mpt: Thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, hum, trying a local build, dropping that dir results in missing icons...
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, because of the cp in debian/rules
<didrocks> seb128: we just need to relocate in ./common/places
<seb128> didrocks, right
<didrocks> (. being the root of the package)
<didrocks> and do the cp in the packages from it
<didrocks> will be easy, no worry :)
<seb128> ok ;-)
<didrocks> and removing tonnnnnnnnnnnnsss of comments :)
<desrt> seb128: so i think we should take 3.8 this cycle :)
<seb128> desrt, suuuure
<desrt> seb128: i'm fixing all the issues for you ahead of time :p
<seb128> desrt, I see and I appreciate it, thanks ;-)
<desrt> but what's the point if you don't take it? :p
<didrocks> desrt: seb128 already started to push it :p
<mspencer> mpt: I've filed this as bug 1086870
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086870 in Contributor Console "Should be able to open Bazaar Explorer when getting code" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086870
<mpt> ok
<didrocks> ogra_: unity, compiz and nux seems to be blocked because of edubuntu alpha1 freeze
<didrocks> ogra_: so you maybe will have to wait after this to rebuild your image
 * didrocks waves good evening
<dobey> pitti: is there any way to programmatically get the pygobject version number in python, when using gir bindings?
<pitti> $ python3 -c 'import gi; print(gi.version_info)'
<pitti> (3, 7, 2)
<pitti> dobey: ^ that's the official API
<dobey> ah ok
<dobey> thanks
<dobey> now i'll have to patch twisted
<mterry> Sweetshark, so should I look at bug 1034560 now?  We want libreoffice-report-builder in raring?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034560 in libserializer (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libloader-java, libformula-java, librepository-java, libfonts-java, libserializer-java " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034560
<Sweetshark> mterry: yep.
<plars> seb128: ping?
<Sweetshark> mterry: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=blob;f=rules;h=2ed34ada677a8a688eda6511093683a0699361aa;hb=651089892251843ef3ae93d1499121957e25ac11#l848 shows the additional deps that would be ensued by enabling report-builder ..
<plars> seb128: could I push https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1086036 over to you or didrocks (or anyone else that might want to take a look)?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086036 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz driven ubiquity-dm crashes when booting raring" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> plars, hi
<plars> hi seb128
<seb128> plars, seems like duflu looked at it, he's the best placed to debug the issue
<seb128> plars, but try to ping bregma about it, he can probably help you
<plars> bregma: ping?
<seb128> plars, btw nothing changing in the compiz stack "between the 20121129 and 20121202"
<plars> seb128: but it was switched out for metacity apparently
<seb128> plars, but it seems like around the time ubiquity started using compiz
<plars> right
<seb128> plars, right, so that's not very helpful info
<seb128> "compiz started to have an issue when we started to use it"
<seb128> sure you didn't have issue when you were not using it...
<seb128> it doesn't mean the issue was not there
<plars> seb128: compiz was merely our best guess based on what we are seeing, but we need help debugging where the problem actually lies.  There was a corresponding crash with compiz that was suspicious, but may or may not be the underlying cause
<plars> seb128: it could, in fact, be what duflu suspected, and a dup of this 2 month old compiz bug.  But that bug hasn't seem to have made any progress and this is impacting daily raring images now, so it needs some attention
<seb128> plars, right, well the #ps team (e.g bregma and duflu) are the best placed to help you
<plars> seb128: thanks I'll talk to them
<seb128> let us know how it goes
<bregma> plars, our best bet is to wait until duflu is on and get his opinion on possible causes
<seb128> bdrung, thanks for the file-roller work!
<bdrung> seb128: you're welcome
<bdrung> seb128: i recommend to add bugs to attract new developers ;)
<seb128> hehe ;-)
<bdrung> that's the normal way for me to become a maintainer of a package
<robert_ancell> tedg, is lp:indicator-network obsolete? I'm working on a Network Manager indicator and wondering if we should take over that branch. Also do you know who maintains ~indicator-developers?
<robert_ancell> seb128, fricking copyrights :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't tell me, I hate them!
<robert_ancell> seb128, I hoped you'd just patch it for me :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I did!
<seb128> robert_ancell, not nice from you though :p
<robert_ancell> seb128, your emails weren't in unified diff format ;)
<tedg> robert_ancell, It's basically connman based, we've intended to port it to network manager eventually, but I don't think that's staffed currently.
<seb128> robert_ancell, heh, I did upload to the queue for you!
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh cheers, I didn't see that
<robert_ancell> tedg, right, we have a working nm indicator but it's not based on the old indicator-network codebase - shall push the old lp:indicator-network to another branch and link lp:indicator-network to the new one?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I posted "I rejected but I uploaded a fixed version" (or something around those lines)
<seb128> robert_ancell, for both seahorse-share and realmd
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh too early for me!
<tedg> robert_ancell, ?  I'm confused.
<tedg> robert_ancell, You wrote a new indicator?
<robert_ancell> tedg, yes
<tedg> Uhm, why?
<robert_ancell> tedg, based it off the indicator-bluetooth code and both I and cyphermox considered the old i-n overly complicated
<seb128> there is a chance the new indicator is faster to write than trying to adapt the 3 years old conman based one
<robert_ancell> desrt, hey, if you register an object in GDBus with a property and you notify that property doesn't it generate a D-Bus notify?
<robert_ancell> i.e. a PropertiesChanged D-Bus signal
<desrt> robert_ancell: which kind of object and how?
<micahg> kenvandine: did you discuss the ctypes thing with chrisccoulson, I would think not being able to use a multiarch dir for a library is a bug
<desrt> robert_ancell: if you mean register_object() then no
<robert_ancell> desrt, yes
<kenvandine> micahg, not yet
<desrt> robert_ancell: if you mean gdbus-codegen then "maybe"
<robert_ancell> desrt, no, from vala
<desrt> that's more interesting.  also a maybe.
<desrt> i guess it depends on if the signal is part of the tagged-public dbus interface
<kenvandine> micahg, i think it should find it without the path
<desrt> in that case i think it is emitted
<robert_ancell> desrt, it is, but it doesn't seem to generate the signal. I think it's because you potentially want to send only one d-bus signal and GLib generates a notify for each property
<robert_ancell> desrt, but in that case it really should be more clearly documented and there should be a bus.notify_properties (object, properties)
<robert_ancell> desrt, it's probably more of a vala issue because in C you'd have to handle all the properties anyway
<desrt> robert_ancell: the property change signal thing is... controversial
<desrt> some people say it's part of the spec, others disagree
<desrt> in particular, i think david is a strong advocate and thiago hates it
<robert_ancell> desrt, it's practically required and used everywhere
<micahg> kenvandine: well, I would think the multiarch path would be accessible without being explicitly defined if that's what you mean
<kenvandine> micahg, right
<desrt> robert_ancell: i think QtDBus is quite intentional about not supporting it
<robert_ancell> groan
<robert_ancell> and this is why everyone reimplements essentially a properties interface for their objects :)
<desrt> robert_ancell: depending on what you're doing, objectmanager is a good fit
<robert_ancell> desrt, I'm trying to make an indicator
 * robert_ancell cries
<desrt> erm
<desrt> isn't there a library for that?
<robert_ancell> there's at least 5!
<desrt> heh
<desrt> so why are you talking to dbus directly?
<desrt> pick one :)
<robert_ancell> I've solved my issue now, but it felt clunky
<desrt> btw...
<desrt> any idea if we will be on logind soon?
<robert_ancell> you have to make a service to send the icon name from the indicator service to the indicator library
<robert_ancell> desrt, seb128 said slangasek said soon
 * desrt is getting sick of dealing with consolekit issues
<chrisccoulson> micahg, kenvandine, it just uses dlopen(), and it works fine here btw for my addons
<robert_ancell> me too
<desrt> BSD is gonna be pissed :(
<chrisccoulson> eg, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/unityfox/ happily loads libunity from a multiarch location just fine
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i am pretty sure this was working before in unity-firefox-extension
<desrt> robert_ancell: this cycle soon, you think?
<robert_ancell> desrt, that's what I've heard
<kenvandine> we tested it when we converted it to multiarch
 * desrt grins widely
<desrt> as soon as there is a stable release of ubuntu sans-CK, support is just going to utterly utterly vanish from GNOME
<desrt> which will be awesome for absolutely everyone except the BSDs :/
<robert_ancell> desrt, they should be able to do the same thing we're doing and switch to logind
<desrt> i thought i understood that logind was wired pretty tightly into some linux-only kernel features...
<robert_ancell> desrt, I think that's an exaggeration. We/they might have to drop a few features, but the core part of tracking sessions and seats only really requires PAM afaict
<desrt> hmmm
<micahg> kenvandine: FWIW, that package was lacking a multiarch label in the control file even though it was converted
 * desrt was pretty sure cgroups was a core feature there
<robert_ancell> the big new thing is tracking session processes with cgroups, but if you disable that you aren't any worse off that CK
<desrt> true enough
<robert_ancell> and ideally we/they can enable all that in the future
<robert_ancell> even if a different technology is required
<desrt> i should email antoine
<seb128> desrt, robert_ancell: some systemd trolling?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no trolling
<robert_ancell> seb128, desrt was asking when we get logind
<seb128> this cycle hopefully, I ping slangasek about that last week
<desrt> seb128: i can't believe i'm wasting my time fixing all these consolekit issues :p
<seb128> he didn't manage to finish looking at that last cycle because secure boot was higher priority on the list
<kenvandine> micahg, what was it missing?
<seb128> hum, ping->pinged
<micahg> kenvandine: Multi-Arch: (same|foreign)
<kenvandine> oh... i've never seen that :)
<kenvandine> none of my checkouts have that... weird
<micahg> kenvandine: it lets dpkg/apt know which arch of a library can suffice for another arch's dependency
<seb128> desrt, yeah, maybe for nothing if we get logind next cycle by the time we get GNOME 3.8 ;-)
<desrt> seb128: it still suits me
<desrt> it's a personal priority for me to keep jhbuild working against the latest stable ubuntu
<seb128> desrt, you are happy then, see you didn't waste time ;-)
<desrt> and since we don't have a stable release (or any realease) with logind yet...
<seb128> desrt, joke aside Steve said it should be doable
<micahg> kenvandine: apt-cache show libpoppler28 | grep Multi-Arch
<seb128> desrt, he just needs to sort out the weird cgroups usage/requirement
<desrt> the cgroups thing is semi-awesome
<desrt> but also weird at the same time...
<desrt> some things in the session (gvfsd, dconf-service, etc.) are services to the user rather than services to the session
<desrt> and they should not have their lifecycle tied to the session cgroup
<desrt> i should talk to lennart about that...
<achiang> random question because i'm awake... do we have plans to migrate gtk2 apps => gtk3 (similar to python2 => python3) ?
<desrt> achiang: been going on for several cycles now...
<desrt> mostly consists of pressuring upstreams to get their act together :)
<achiang> heh. what are the worst offenders currently?
<desrt> ubuntu1 has a python2 problem
<desrt> that's the biggest case, i think
<seb128> achiang, libreoffice, firefox
<desrt> software centre too, but the problem is not too serious (and may be solved)
<desrt> ya... and libreoffice/firefox on the gtk side
<seb128> desrt, he asked about gtk2 to gtk3
<seb128> s-c is gtk3
<achiang> damn, those are pretty large programs
<desrt> ah.  i thought he asked about both :p
 * achiang is happy for lots of extra info :)
<seb128> achiang, yeah, as always easy stuff are done for a longtime
<desrt> achiang: s-c and u1 are python2 problems... not gtk2 :)
<achiang> it's frustrating that we ship gtk2, gtk3, *and* qt4 on the cd
<seb128> achiang, usually when something remains to after a few cycle it's because they are hard ones...
<achiang> i wonder if we'll have this same problem with qt4 and qt5
<seb128> achiang, tell us...
<desrt> firefox has gtk3 patches....
<seb128> achiang, it's easy enough to kick out qt4
<seb128> desrt, do we have adobe plugins for gtk3?
<achiang> seb128: ah, good. re: qt4
<desrt> seb128: does the flash plugin link against gtk2?
<seb128> achiang, qt is only for u1
<seb128> desrt, yes
<desrt> seb128: that's approximately the stupidest thing i've ever heard
<desrt> why!?
<seb128> desrt, why do you think it doesn't work in epiphany...
<desrt> GtkPlug?
<desrt> seb128: i don't really use flash...
<seb128> desrt, not sure, the source is not available
<desrt> seb128: easy enough to check for symbols...
<seb128> desrt, they have an ui in any case to choose quality and other things
<desrt> seb128: seems to be using file selector, menus, message dialogs
<desrt> input methods...
<desrt> clipboard
<desrt> lots of stuff, actually
 * achiang finds http://worldofgnome.org/libre-office-in-gtk3-and-wayland/
<achiang> there's gotta be some equivalent of jwz's law of envelopment... any sufficiently large program must write its own toolkit
<desrt> freaking gimp
<achiang> xul, nux... ;)
<desrt> iirc vlc has its own toolkit as well
<TheMuso> VLC uses QT afaik.
<desrt> maybe i get it confused with libreoffice's toolkit being called vcl
<seb128> don't forget gnome-shell not using gtk but their own stuff as well ;-)
<desrt> also meego using its own toolkit :)
<seb128> desrt, tizen uses efl ;-)
<desrt> finally!  someone who uses an existing product!
<desrt> wait... efl?
 * desrt falls over
<seb128> the world got tired to wait for e17
<seb128> somebody had to release a product using efl
<seb128> "release"
<desrt> hah
<seb128> or maybe tizen will be doomed the same way e17 was
<seb128> iz efl's fault
<desrt> more similar to the way that meego is, i think :)
<desrt> linux is cursed
<desrt> unless you're google.....
<desrt> maybe that's the key... you can only be successful using linux if you carry a significant delta vs. the upstream kernel :)
<seb128> I don't like that rule :p
<desrt> here's another one, then:
<desrt> android doesn't have glib
<desrt> you can only be successul if you don't have glib :p
<seb128> some people are working on solving that it seems
<desrt> (also: dbus, glibc, etc... GNU in general, actually)
<seb128> wasn't slomo sending patches for having glib to work on android?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> they have gstreamer working with it
<robert_ancell> tedg, do you know about IdoSwitchMenuItem?
<tedg> robert_ancell, A bit, but charles or larsu would probably know more.
<robert_ancell> tedg, what is the correct way to set a label on it?
<seb128> robert_ancell, indicator-sync is an example of indicator using it
<seb128> robert_ancell, in case that helps you
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, looking at that, but it does it a bit differently
<robert_ancell> tedg, is that what the "content area" is for?
<tedg> ?
<seb128> charles, ^
<tedg> I think that you probably don't want to do switches with libappindicator :-)
<tedg> There's now way to put the IDO widget in and have it introspected back out.
<tedg> That feature was dropped half way when I learned about GMenuModel.  Didn't make sense to complete it.
<robert_ancell> tedg, I'm copying how indicator-sync does it and it uses DbusmenuGtk.Client.add_type_handler
<tedg> robert_ancell, On the client side, yes.
<tedg> robert_ancell, You can't do that on the server side.
<robert_ancell> tedg, that's fine
<robert_ancell> tedg, ok, it seems to have worked
<desrt> achiang: hey... what's the status of power-and-usb-otg-at-the-same-time?
<achiang> desrt: hm... that's a better question for ogra or janimo. i don't think it's working though
<desrt> achiang: know anything about these 4 contacts on the side of the device?
<desrt> rumour has it i can apply +5 and ground to two of them....
<achiang> desrt: they're "pogo plugs"
<achiang> desrt: supposedly a dock is coming
<achiang> but i don't know if it's shipped yet
<desrt> ya... i've seen the dock
<desrt> just wondering if we support that
<desrt> i was reading that some older versions of the android firmware refused to charge from them
<achiang> interesting... i don't know anyone who's tried testing
<desrt> k.  thanks
<robert_ancell> tedg, hey, so I think I have my head around doing indicators right - can I get you to review http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+junk/indicator-vala/files/head:/src/ some time?
<tedg> robert_ancell, I can, I have a rather long review queue sadly though.  You might ping charles or larsu to see if their's is shorter.  But I can do it if they're busy as well.
<robert_ancell> tedg, I know larsu is busy :) I'll send you all an email and I'll just press on for now assuming it's correct
<robert_ancell> bbl
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-06
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, hi
<robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, hello
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, who could I talk to about the webapps design ?
<robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, design or implementation?
<bcurtiswx> not sure, it's about getting rid of the chromium icon in the side bar when it's only webapps loaded
<robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, did you file a bug? I think racarr worked on it but I don't know a lot of details about the project
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, not yet, figured I'd chat with someone before.
<desrt> robert_ancell: you get a chance to play with those USB things yet, or waiting for logind?
<robert_ancell> desrt, I turned on on and got video through it but it really needs logind/udev to make them work properly
<desrt> makes sense
<desrt> hopefully soon
 * desrt is hearing reports that gnome-shell under llvmpipe is hilariously fast these days
<desrt> would be really nice to see it on one of those
<duflu> desrt: Compiz under llvmpipe isn't too bad either. But Unity needs some improving yet
<desrt> duflu: apparently ajax is actively improving llvmpipe as well
<duflu> desrt: ajax is a handle I assume? :)
<desrt> ya :p
<desrt> adam jackson
<desrt> x hacker extraordinare
<duflu> desrt: Yeah I googled
<duflu> desrt: Weirdly, compiz llvmpipe performance used to be better before we "supported" it... bug 1025586
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1025586 in compiz (Ubuntu) "[0.9.8 r3110 regression] [LLVMpipe] Dragging windows around is much slower with compiz 0.9.8 than 0.9.7 (using LLVMpipe)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025586
<duflu> Though back then there were hideous graphical glitches too
<Sarvatt> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/mesa.git/tree/mesa-8.0-llvmpipe-shmget.patch not being in upstream mesa doesn't help :)
<duflu> Sarvatt: Interesting. Why not upstream?
<mfisch> robert_ancell: ping
<robert_ancell> mfisch, hello
<mfisch> robert_ancell: I never did get bzr merge-upstream to work for curl, but I did the update
<mfisch> robert_ancell: the reviewer suggested that I should just merge from debian experimental instead, which makes sense
<robert_ancell> yeah, they debian updated
<mfisch> I think I missed the update or it happened after I started
<robert_ancell> mfisch, I didn't see it updated until you had finished. It can be guess work to tell if debian is keeping up to date or now
<robert_ancell> not
<mfisch> so we have ubuntu patches still, so I need to see what debian did
<mfisch> we can't just copy theirs in
<robert_ancell> mfisch, oh yeah, you have to merge with them
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Yo yo didrocks yo!
<didrocks> hey RAOF!
<chrisccoulson_> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson_, how are you?
<chrisccoulson_> wow, only 2 work days left!#
<chrisccoulson_> hi didrocks, i'm good thanks. how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson_: I've thanksfully more than 2 work days left (seeing the amount of work remaining ;))
<didrocks> but good, it's light festival in my city starting tonight!
<didrocks> if you want to see last year teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PqBQMeUZP0 :)
 * duflu moves to Lyon
<didrocks> ;)
<duflu> There's /too much/ daylight in Perth. Along with the heat it's repressing
<duflu> Though today is cool
<didrocks> duflu: this year, the light festival will maybe happen under snow (snowing lightly, but snowing today) :)
<didrocks> will be fun in the streets, during the week-end in particular, there are an estimation of 4 millions people coming just for the festival (but hopefully it's across the city)
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson_> hmm, my firefox nightlies have been failing because i added a xpi file to the packaging and forgot to add it to debian/source/include-binaries
<chrisccoulson_> hi pitti
<duflu> didrocks: You win. We had a quick taste of Summer the other day. 37 degrees. That will soon become normal...
<didrocks> hey pitti :)
<didrocks> duflu: heh! ;)
<chrisccoulson_> didrocks, the lights look quite nice ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson_: they really are :) Also there is the tradition of every citizen putting some small lamps next to their windows the 8 of December
 * didrocks refers to http://timoetnous.unblog.fr/files/2009/12/fetelumiere2009lumignon.jpg
<didrocks> basically, there are some history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_of_Lights_(Lyon)), but for 10 years, it's a real city-size events :)
<xclaesse> would be great if taping "play" multimedia key starts rhythmbox in background
<xclaesse> atm it works only  if I first lauch rb manually
<seb128> xclaesse, right, that's a gnome-settings-daemon upstream wishlist (or rhythmbox one) ... the keybinding makes g-s-d send a dbus signal, but since rhythmbox is not running...
<seb128> xclaesse, seems like rb should be dbus activated when that happens
<seb128> not sure how the sound indicator does it because it works there, if you click play it will start rb and play
<xclaesse> seb128, do you have a bug # for that?
<xclaesse> seb128, hm good point about sound indicator
<xclaesse> it present the rb window though, I personally would let it hidden
<seb128> xclaesse, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687831
<ubot2> Gnome bug 687831 in media-keys "Pressing "play" should launch the last used media player" [Normal,New]
<xclaesse> it's not really consistent, if I start rb, play, close window, then pause. Then I click play again in the indicator it won't show the window...
<seb128> xclaesse, that's a good point, I guess that's a rb bug, it always start by showing it's ui rather than restoring its previous state
 * xclaesse sees rb a bit like empathy: a UI for a service that runs on background
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, but rb doesn't have clean backend separation :p
<xclaesse> I know, it's already an ubuntu specific patch that you can close the window and still play music
 * didrocks agrees on the service view
<didrocks> IIRC, I did an UDS session some years ago about those :)
<xclaesse> didrocks, seb128: what's the package for the music indicator?
<didrocks> indicator-sound
<xclaesse> thx
<psivaa> didrocks: just to let you know that the live-session compiz crash is still occurring with compiz: 1:0.9.9~daily12.12.05 and unity: 6.12.0daily12.12.05
<didrocks> psivaa: ah ok, can you report the latest stacktrace please?
<didrocks> psivaa: it will be easier to debug that way
<didrocks> psivaa: then, just ping me with the bug # please, I'll add to the list :)
<psivaa> didrocks: ack
<didrocks> thanks :)
<xclaesse> didrocks, seb128: reported that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1087186
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1087186 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) ""play" when rb is not running should not popup its window" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<didrocks> psivaa: there is maybe a fix in the ppa soon, but IIRC, you had trouble testing with that, right?
<didrocks> (someone not on the distro)
<psivaa> didrocks: yes, it's not proving easy testing live session in persistent mode with VMs
<didrocks> psivaa: will be good to see why, at least, that will enable to test the potential fix
<didrocks> or workaround rather
<psivaa> well even with today's images doing a pkill -9 X solves the issue
<cyphermox> good morning
<mdeslaur> didrocks: uhm, whatever you described in bug 1037164 sounds like a completely different issue to me...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037164 in compiz (Ubuntu Quantal) "Clicking on semi-maximized windows in a different workspace produce unexpected results" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037164
<mdeslaur> didrocks: the original bug had nothing to do with semi-maximized windows
<didrocks> mdeslaur: duflu pointed that it should be the same root cause
<mdeslaur> hrm, ok then
<didrocks> when I asked for filing a different one, he just asked me to comment on it
<kenvandine> didrocks, is dee set to autoland?
<didrocks> kenvandine: not yet for the unity release stack
<didrocks> until autopilot is on
<kenvandine> ok, mind if i do a manual upload of dee?  it is completely broken right now for python3
<kenvandine> my branch has been merged into trunk
<psivaa> hello, bug 1080674 is starting to impact more people and it does not appear to be kernel related
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1080674 in xserver-xorg-video-cirrus (Ubuntu) "[QEMU] Corrupted desktop screen for raring desktop installation in QEMU guest (Cirrus graphics)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080674
<psivaa> it would be helpful to know if there will be a fix soon
<didrocks> kenvandine: oh no worry at all :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: just ensure it's merged upstream then
<kenvandine> will do
<didrocks> kenvandine: speaking of ensuringâ¦ :) https://code.launchpad.net/~ps-jenkins/signon-keyring-extension/latestsnapshot/+merge/138380
<didrocks> can you harrass the jenkins master so that it's merged
<didrocks> ?
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, chrome doesn't support JS proxies? :/
<didrocks> I tried to reapprove it when I saw the PASS but nothing, looking at the trace, it's a jenkins issue
<kenvandine> sure
<didrocks> thanks :)
<kenvandine> i really need to setup vpn so i can see those logs
<didrocks> kenvandine: you will need it for the daily build as well :)
<ricotz> didrocks, hi
<ricotz> didrocks, i guess a merge-proposal is needed even for tiny things? http://paste.debian.net/plain/214732
<ricotz> didrocks, btw any plans to enable the git/vapi build for bamf package?
<ricotz> s/git/gir
<kenvandine> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/dee/1.2.0daily12.12.06-0ubuntu1/+merge/138480
<didrocks> ricotz: oh yeah, do you want to submit that upstream?( sorry in meetings)
<didrocks> ricotz: for the bamf one, I need to check if gir/vapi are working, back on the time, they were not perfect at all :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: oh, you used the daily notation! :)
<kenvandine> i had to
<didrocks> had to?
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> --split
<didrocks> so same tarball :)
<kenvandine> 1.2.0daily12.12.05-0ubuntu1 is > 1.2.0baily12.12.06-0ubuntu1
<kenvandine> whoops
<kenvandine> 1.2.0daily12.12.05-0ubuntu1 is > 1.2.0bzr12.12.06-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> yeah, you couldn't use 1.2.0daily12.12.05-0ubuntu2 because of --split
<kenvandine> ah, yeah that too
<didrocks> ahah, you didn't thought about it! I see ;)
<didrocks> kenvandine: btw, approved :)
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> thx
<didrocks> kenvandine: on the signon thing: if you see that in let's say, 4 hours, it's not getting merged, can you do it manually?
<didrocks> kenvandine: it will block the next daily only if anything has to be pushed otherwise
<kenvandine> yeah
<didrocks> thanks!
<kenvandine> i am not sure where rvr is
<didrocks> kenvandine: you can still ask to fghinter if he's not here today
<ricotz> didrocks, i submitted some introspection fixes in the past and using the bamf vapi myself
<didrocks> ricotz: oh good, a bzr branch around for it? :)
<ricotz> so it seems fine to have it built i think
<ricotz> didrocks, currently not
 * didrocks will review it once ready :)
<ricotz> didrocks, this small fix is though
<didrocks> ricotz: do you have a link to the merge proposal? I didn't see it
<ricotz> didrocks, didnt made one yet, since it is pretty minor, will do right away
<didrocks> thanks!
<ricotz> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/bamf/annotation-fix/+merge/138493
<didrocks> ricotz: thanks! mterry ^
<mterry> looking
<ricotz> mterry, also using uint64 doesnt seems appropriate http://paste.debian.net/plain/214748
<ricotz> not sure if this is actually used and would be considered a break
<mterry> ricotz, well, I'm slightly confused.  the gdk API seems to treat them as pointers, where something as large as 64 would make some sense if we're being forced to be explicit.  But other uses of xid (like over dbus) typically define them as 32
<mterry> ricotz, so I'm assuming that 32 is appropriate
<ricotz> mterry, yeah tabsource also uses uint32
<dobey> xids should be 32bit everywhere in gdk afaik
<ricotz> mterry, i guess you need to reapprove due the missing commit message
<mterry> ricotz, done
<Sweetshark> ricotz: did you see 3.6.4 in the libreoffice ppa btw?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, oh, not yet, i havent looked lately
<ricotz> Sweetshark, are those the *same* tarballs as rc3?
<Sweetshark> ricotz: I hope not!
<ricotz> no you had a repack in your ppa irc
<ricotz> so those are same again now
<ricotz> nevermind i will take a look later
<mterry> Sweetshark, what is the difference between bug 1034558 and bug 1034560 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034558 in pentaho-reporting-flow-engine (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libbase-java, libsac-java, libxml-java, libflute-java, libpentaho-reporting-flow-engine-java, liblayout-java" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034558
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034560 in libloader (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libloader-java, libformula-java, librepository-java, libfonts-java, libserializer-java " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034560
<mterry> They both seem to be for the same proximate cause of the report builder
<Sweetshark> desrt: can you comment on bug 1086868 comment 7? I assume gimp doesnt use GMenuModel yet, and would cause the same additional deps once it does, right?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086868 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "No global menu in Plasma (KDE) session in Raring" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086868
<Sweetshark> mterry: yes. IIRC they were split after a quick chat with seb128 along the lines of 'no more than ~5 packages on one bug' ...
<desrt> Sweetshark: i don't understand the question
<mterry> Sweetshark, ok, if that's all no biggie.  I don't mind giant bugs if they are just MIRs, but two bugs isn't a problem either  :)
<desrt> what does this have to do with GIMP?
<desrt> oh.  i see.
<desrt> GIMP is still using the dbusmenu 'sucker' approach
<desrt> i guess the KDE plasma stuff does not speak GMenuModel yet
<Sweetshark> desrt: hrhr, is 'sucker' the official marketing term?
<desrt> Sweetshark: it's a fairly accurate description :)
<Sweetshark> desrt: hmm, thats not the only issue. if libreoffice is running in on a kde-desktop, it will mimic kde (and use some native kde file pickers etc.). same for gtk. and the menumodel is in the -gtk mimicing code (and thats a Good Thing(tm)).
<Sweetshark> desrt: so to get the menu (even if they would be supported by plasma) one would need to teach libreoffice to use the gtk mimicking even on kde. As gtk is themed as qt on kde it shouldnt be too much of an issue (except for the few truely native dialogs like file chooser/print).
<desrt> i think the kde plasma thingy just needs to speak gmenumodel
<desrt> one way or another it's going to have to do that eventually
<desrt> otherwise people are going to be upset when GIMP stops working next
<desrt> (attente is working now on making that a reality)
<Sweetshark> desrt: yep. still, even if plasma knows about GMenuModel, one would need to tweak libreoffice to default to the -gtk plugin (as that plugin is the only one which has the GMenuModel stuff) and thereby get native gtk-filepickers instead of qt-filepickers. whatever, they are better anyway.
<Sweetshark> (or plumb the gmenumodel stuff into the -kde plugin too)
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: can we get https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/unity-lens-music/gstreamer1.0/+merge/134310 reviewed/merged, we got totem/rb/etc using gst1
<didrocks> mterry: just a note when you review it, I think debian/changelog should be bumped as there is a bump in configure.ac
<didrocks> hum, ignore me :)
 * didrocks needs coffee
<didrocks> but I still think that debian/changelog will conflict once merged (as we did a daily release)
<mterry> didrocks, seb128: seems harmless from a quick review.  will build and test.
<mterry> didrocks, yar
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<didrocks> mterry: I'm a little bit afraid of what bzr merge is doing, I think it's duplicating the changelog in that case
 * didrocks just does a trial out of curiousity
<didrocks> ah no, conflict, good :)
<didrocks> but still weird result of the 3 way merge :)
<didrocks> seb128: it seems that upstream a-l-m isn't active anymore, do you know who to contact for https://code.launchpad.net/~malizor/activity-log-manager/fix-967150/+merge/125556 ?
<seb128> didrocks, we should try to contact seif to see if we can hand us the project or add us as admins
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, do you want to do it or should I?
<didrocks> seb128: if you have time tomorrow, please do it, if not, just hand it over to me for next week :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, writing an email so it's done
<didrocks> seb128: great! :)
<pitti> seb128: Monsieur! est-ce que tu as une minute?
<seb128> pitti, salut, oui
<pitti> seb128: we are just discussing crashes on errors.u.c. again, and wondering how we can eventually stop sending everything to both daisy and LP
<pitti> seb128: so AFAIUI, your (and mine) main concern about this was that for some problems we need an interactive communication channel with the reporter, right?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> seb128: but in the general case, we want crashes to be on errors.u.c, and not upload everything twice
<seb128> well, "interactive" would be great
<pitti> seb128: so how about this:
<seb128> but a minimal step would be to let users write a descriptions
<seb128> so we could go through the descriptions to get infos
<seb128> e.g firefox is doing that
<pitti> seb128: problem with descriptions is that we'll get tons of them, and nobody would read them all
<seb128> well, it's often useful
<pitti> seb128: so the idea that we have is this:
<pitti> - apport shows the crash
<pitti> - apport asks daisy "do you know about this problem"
<seb128> you would go through 15 and see "ok, quite some of those people are speaking about login with another user"
<seb128> pitti, (sorry, I'm reading now)
<pitti> - daisy then replies with "no", "yes", or "yes, and a developer requested an LP bug"
<pitti> seb128: as part of the general "problem specific hooks" (this will be a checkbox)
<pitti> and as soon as the next reporter actually does submit an LP bug, the requestor gets a notificatoin pointing to the new bug
<pitti> the bug will have a link to the details on errors and the crash signature
<pitti> and once such a bug exists, daisy would stop requesting further bugs
<seb128> pitti, that would work for me I think, it means we can engage a conversation for the bugs we care about and cut the noise for the others
<pitti> this gives us the general communication channel for the stuff where we want it
<seb128> pitti, yeah, +1 from me ;-)
<pitti> and at the same time allows us to (1) avoid the noise nobody looks at, and (2) mothball our Launchpad retracers
<pitti> seb128: and for the cases where we can collect additional infos noninteractively we can use the new "for the next n times run this additional hook" feature
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that seems great to me
<pitti> trÃ¨s bien!
 * pitti te donne une accolade
<seb128> pitti, but don't turn the launchpad side off before the feature is added to e.u.c :p
 * seb128 donee une accolade Ã  pitti en retour
<seb128> "donne" even
<cyphermox> seb128: yo
<cyphermox> have you seen the new upload of evolution-indicator in the queue?
<cyphermox> nevermind, I fail
<cyphermox> thanks ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, yw ;-)
<Sweetshark> ricotz: https://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/building-libreoffice-easily-killing-an-urban-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-697 <- people are really pushy to get libreoffice backports. you should suggest selling it as an premium enterprise service to him ...
<micahg> Sweetshark: I was going to ask if you or ricotz have any interest in official (-backports) backports for libreoffice
<Sweetshark> micahg: I wouldnt be able to handle that on current workload. Also IMHO this is something that is a perfect reason to become an ubuntu advantage customer, isnt it?
<micahg> Sweetshark: nope
<jbicha> do new LO releases require updated dependencies though?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, lol, i guess he should be happy with 3.5.7, but i will look at getting 3.6.4 for precise, but no eta yet
<micahg> some new deps aren't a problem, it depends how far down the stack it goes on whether or not the testing will be onerous
<ricotz> there are some deps like cmis which needs to be updated
<micahg> libreoffice is the only rdep, no problem :)
<ricotz> but it is pretty much backportable, i will dare to look into 3.6.4 for lucid too though
<jbicha> micahg: backports can depend on other backports now?
<micahg> jbicha: umm, well, when infinity fixes it...(if it's a new source/binary, then yes right now)
<micahg> s/source//
<Sweetshark> micahg: well, if its not, we are definitely understaffed for libreoffice ;>
<ricotz> micahg, for the ppa builds i like backporting as much as possible of the closer deps
<ricotz> Sweetshark, right
<micahg> ricotz: yeah, well, the more you backport, the more stuff you have to test when it's official
<Sweetshark> jbicha: depends. you can switch most of the deps from an external version to an internal one, but that brings its own set of problems.
<ricotz> micahg, yeah :\, that is why i like the ppa way
<micahg> ricotz: right, but that's less discoverable :)
<micahg> with backports on by default now, it would be nice for people to have an option in software center for a newer version
<ricotz> right
<jbicha> we needs a Trusted PPA program where good official PPAs like LO & the Mozilla Beta PPA can be highlighted
<Sweetshark> micahg: but backports would also mean doing ARM in addition. the libreoffice PPA is amd64/i386 only. that will again make a huge difference.
<mlankhorst> trust is that which can betray you. :P
<ricotz> Sweetshark, adding arm support to the ppa is possible though
<micahg> Sweetshark: not sure what you mean by "doing ARM", you get ARM builds for free with an official backport
<micahg> anyways, just wanted to throw it out there, it's definitely optional from my perspective
<Sweetshark> micahg: note that libreoffice does ~8 (plus 3-4 prereleases) microreleases per cycles, multiply by at least 3 supported releases (dev-release, last non-LTS, last LTS). you have ~30 releases (when not backporting the prereleases everywhere). A full LO release takes _at_ least 1 day when done right (create tarballs, build locally, tested locally, dput to ppa, build in ppa, build in ppa again because of lack of fs-space, user testing in p
<micahg> Sweetshark: -backports backports are ideally straight backports from a later series, so it should be a matter of testing that everything builds/installs/runs
<micahg> Sweetshark: and there's no saying that you have to backport every release
<Sweetshark> a cycle has ~115 workdays. at one day per release its some 25% of worktime, at three its 75% of worktime -- given that you also have som 25% for administration, coordination, conferences, that is a full commitment.
<micahg> Sweetshark: it wasn't a worktime request...
<Sweetshark> under the unrealistic assumption that there is nothing to be done really on the packaging itself etc. ....
<Sweetshark> micahg: sure ;) -- its just that alot has changed since OOo with their sleepy one major, one minor release per year ;)
<Sweetshark> micahg: libreoffice ARM builds are never 'for free' ;)
<micahg> Sweetshark: TBH, I don't see the connection, I was just wondering if you or ricotz considered official backports, that's all, I'm aware of the backports PPA and since the topic was brought up, I figured to mention it
<Sweetshark> micahg: which connection? anyway: I would only consider backports, if I had enough wiggle room to ensure to regularly update them. I dont see that at all now. If ricotz is volunteering, kudos to him, but it did not exactly sound like that currently.
<micahg> Sweetshark: connection between # of releases and backports. anyways, it's voluntary, just wanted to plant the seed in case someone wanted to make it happen
* You're now known as ubuntulog
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-07
<plars> duflu: any idea when we'll see the new compiz package in images? I was hoping it would show up today but it doesn't seem to have built yet?
<duflu> plars: raring?
<duflu> plars: All raring images built after today will contain compiz 0.9.9. The proof is here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz
<duflu> If you want daily updates for the bleeding edge then there is also ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build
<plars> duflu: that's showing that the current for raring is the  1:0.9.9~daily12.12.05-0ubuntu1
<sarnold> are they blocked by the flavor-distro-alpha1?
<duflu> plars: Yeah I was assuming the new inline packaging plan would mean daily changes to raring-proposed, but to get daily updates you need the PPA still
<plars> duflu: so you (or someone) needs to manually push that to get it in the images?
<plars> duflu: I'm out tomorrow, but I have others on my team that'll be looking for it I know
<duflu> plars: To update the official raring release version, that is decided and pushed by distro. It's out of my hands
<duflu> BTW, "tomorrow" is Saturday for me :)
<micahg> duflu: no, once stuff's reverse dependencies are fine and autopkgtests pass, stuff migrates automatically from -proposed to -release
<plars> duflu: tomorrow for me is always "next daily image built" :)
<duflu> micahg: Yeah but there is no "proposed", which I find unexpected: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz
<micahg> duflu: it migrated already
<micahg> oh, maybe not
<micahg> hrm, nothing to upload for today?
<duflu> micahg: Yes, there have been revisions that should have triggered daily builds. But looks like the daily builds are blocked or frozen
<micahg> didrocks can probably explain when he comes online in ~2hrs or so
<duflu> This is the first time people have been able to run the bleeding edge compiz and get a new one every day. Should make some people happy, despite the risk
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Aloha didrocks!
<didrocks> hey RAOF!
<RAOF> This must mean it's soon to be ZoÃ« bath time :)
<didrocks> RAOF: heh, that's what I understood! :) I'm a little bit in advance today though ;)
<didrocks> RAOF: did you plan anything for the week-end?
<RAOF> Got some board games lined up on Sunday; I hope to continue my romping Eclipse form.
<didrocks> oh sounds interesting :)
<didrocks> I never played but I heard good things about "battlestar gallactica" as a board game
<didrocks> (well, especially when you are a fan of the serie)
<RAOF> That'd probably be an interesting game.
<RAOF> I've not played it, but it seems likely to have a âtraitorâ dynamic, which is generally interesting.
<didrocks> yeah, like in the TV show
<didrocks> in the TV show, the best is that traitors don't know that they are traitos
<didrocks> traitors*
<didrocks> (basically they can be dormant agent)
<didrocks> not sure if that's reflected inside the game
<RAOF> That show wrote checks the writers couldn't cash.
<RAOF> Also lost its way somewhere - S3 or S4, if I recall.
<RAOF> But ended up finding it again.
 * duflu votes BSG for best sci fi series in a long tim
<duflu> +e
 * didrocks agrees with duflu
<RAOF> Yeah, I'll go with that.
<didrocks> RAOF: I globally liked this one from start to end :)
<didrocks> caprica was also great
<didrocks> but the last 5 minutes are:
<didrocks> "well, we didn't get the credit for doing more, here is what we wanted to explainâ¦"
<RAOF> Didn't watch all of that; still got some of it lying around somewhere.
<didrocks> "lying around" ;)
<didrocks> a file on a server, lost in a big HD :p
<RAOF> Something like that, yeah :)
<didrocks> that's a sad story!
<didrocks> :)
<tjaalton> RAOF: so you got your copy of eclipse then?-) met with the designer the other week, he was sorry about the delay in getting the new edition in stores
<RAOF> tjaalton: I got mine some time ago, yeah.
<tjaalton> looks like the local reseller has it in stock, need to get one for the holidays :)
<RAOF> It's pretty good.
<RAOF> There seems to be a *9* player expansion, which I suggest is a tiny bit excessive :)
<tjaalton> yeah, rise of the ancients
 * duflu feels like a non-geek in this environment
<smspillaz> duflu: so I've got something that gets us from "grinding to a complete halt when dragging opengl windows around on nvidia" to "stays at a steady 12fps"
<smspillaz> its the safest version I can come up with so far, shall I propose it ?
<smspillaz> or shall I try and go for potentially more unsafe, but more framez
<duflu> smspillaz: You've got time to improve it. I need to go lay down soon. This sinus infection won't go away
<smspillaz> ok, the other changes could be unrelated then
<smspillaz> I might separate them out
<smspillaz> duflu: I'll get MCR1 to throw it at the wall and see if there are any bugs. Get better soon :)
<smspillaz> RAOF: care to offer any possible explanation as to why the nvidia driver might be completely choking when you post it a ConfigureWindow request at the same time some redirected window is rendering ?
<duflu> smspillaz: Did you work on improving the XShape usage?
<duflu> Whenever I snapshotted compiz during a resize freeze that was a big issue, after the XSync
<smspillaz> duflu: the xshape usage shouldn't really be a problem except for resizing
<smspillaz> duflu: I'm only working on movement at the moment
<duflu> smspillaz: OK, one at a time
<smspillaz> duflu: to be honest its tricky - we really have to be careful when resizing a window with a custom shape, as we also need to reflect the changes in the frame window too
<smspillaz> thats not something that can exactly be done asynchronously
<smspillaz> duflu: the biggest thing so far is just the nvidia driver choking on ConfigureWindow. That's where our massive slowdown is
<duflu> smspillaz: Frustrating. How often do apps really need or use non-rectangular shape?...
<smspillaz> duflu: not often
<smspillaz> duflu: the most common one would be chromium if its using CSD
<duflu> Sheet. Chromium counts as common...
<smspillaz> duflu: I don't know if people use CSD with it that much though
<duflu> CSD?
<smspillaz> client side decorations
<smspillaz> The other shape related slowdown would be in the decor plugin, because I'm pretty sure those decorations have custom input shapes (pretty sure, you'll have to double check)
<RAOF> smspillaz: What are you doing with the ConfigureWindow? There are a bunch of different codepaths depending on what you're actually configuring.
<smspillaz> but the decor plugin is its own nightmare in terms of resize performance
<smspillaz> RAOF: CWX | CWY
<smspillaz> maybe three times a frame so far
<smspillaz> I'm trying to get it down to one
<duflu> smspillaz: Yeah I noticed decor is a big problem
<smspillaz> duflu: the best fix for that one will be to rewrite it from scratch really, unless you want to reinvent the protocol
<smspillaz> which will also count as rewriting it from scratch
 * duflu decides to use annotate instead
<smspillaz> "i have decorations too!"
<duflu> And there's a house and a sun with smiley face
<smspillaz> decorations - you mean christmas decorations on windows right?
<smspillaz> duflu: all I can think of now is that solver paint commercial from years ago with the little kid at the end saying "I help too!"
<duflu> Yes, libfestive.so
<smspillaz> except that he has paint all over his face
<RAOF> smspillaz: There's basically only two things the driver could be wrapping there - ChangeBorderWidth or MoveWindow.
<smspillaz> RAOF: yeah, the's probably some sycnhronization thing the driver has to do when it gets MoveWindow
<smspillaz> RAOF: this only happens when sync to vblank is on in the driver
<smspillaz> it just completley freaks out when you change a window position mid-frame
<RAOF> A redirected window shouldn't incur such synchronisation!
<smspillaz> thats what I was thinking
<smspillaz> but nope
<RAOF> It's not like it's drawing to the screen at all. It's entirely divorced from vblank!
<smspillaz> RAOF: I know
<smspillaz> RAOF: so at the moment, if you drag a redirected gl window around, two things happen
<pitti> Good morning
<smspillaz> 1. the driver starts choking like crazy
<smspillaz> 2. we get even more time to send it even more ConfigureWindow requests
<smspillaz> which make it choke even more
<RAOF> Yay!
<duflu> if (vblank) for (i=0; i < 100; i++) XSync(d, False);
<smspillaz> RAOF: you can basically DoS the thing by wagging your mouse cursor around for a few seconds
<smspillaz> it will hang for about 30 seconds here
<RAOF> That's suboptimal.
<RAOF> So, have you (a) filed a bug, and (b) asked tselliot to raise it at the next nvidia meeting?
<smspillaz> RAOF: nope, although the other WM's don't seem to cause it to choke too much
<smspillaz> so right now I'm just optimizing how much we send ConfigureWindow requests
<smspillaz> then I'll file the bug
<smspillaz> the thing is that I'm not sure if we have "conclusive proof" that this is the case, or if compiz in doing something else in combination with the ConfigureWindow requests is just causing this behaviour
<smspillaz> if I comment them out it goes back to fast again
<smspillaz> *shrug*
<smspillaz> RAOF: all I can think of right now though is this: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3s31jd/
<RAOF> Heh
<duflu> smspillaz: Before I forget... If you can tell the difference between "shaped" and unshaped rectangular windows, it would be a good idea to skip XShape where possible
<smspillaz> do we not skip it ?
<duflu> smspillaz: No it's "always on"
<smspillaz> hm
 * smspillaz thought the code already did that
<duflu> At least in updateRegion
<Sweetshark> good Mooorrring, all!
<pitti> A wonderrrrrrful good morrrrning to you, Sweetsharrrrrk!
<Sweetshark> pitti: arrr!
<Sweetshark> .oO(every day is talk like a pirate day!)
<didrocks> hey Sweetshark!
<Sweetshark> seb128: I got my raring baseline ready and had a nice little build finished on it. I would love to have in in raring even though its only a beta. I should be okish already, and it will help ironing out the rest early on.
<Sweetshark> didrocks: morning!
<Sweetshark> seb128: I dont wanna do that on a friday though, so I will just give you some more deps/sync-requests today, and keep the big one for monday.
<seb128> hey Sweetshark pitti, happy friday!
<pitti> seb128: bon vendredi!
<seb128> pitti, merci, Ã  toi aussi
<seb128> pitti, tu rentres quand ?
<pitti> seb128: I'll leave the office in about an hour
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, works for me
<seb128> pitti, when do you land? munich?
<pitti> seb128: about 5 pm in Munich, yes
<seb128> when->where
<pitti> I'll meet with my wife and a friend, and we;
<pitti> 'll walk over the Christmas market
<seb128> pitti, good luck, I hope it's not snowing that much there
<seb128> pitti, they forecasted 15cm of snow for us today and it's getting close from 10cm already this morning
<pitti> merci; il pleut Ã  Londres, mais je ne sais pas que il neige Ã  Munich
<pitti> "Ã  MÃ¼nchen"?
<pitti> seb128: actually, is that "que-t-il"?
<Sweetshark> seb128: just to confirm I got the debian policy right: if one file moves from one package to another, the right thing to do it to make the packge it moved to claim it conflicts/replaces the one the file was moved from in the old version?
<seb128> pitti, "je ne sais pas si il neige"
<pitti> seb128: oh, en effet
<seb128> Sweetshark, correct
<seb128> pitti, bonne chance en tout cas !
<pitti> seb128: ba.com says the flight is operating, right now
<seb128> pitti, good
<seb128> pitti, how was the sprint otherwise ?
<pitti> seb128: very intense, but we got a lot done; ev will write a summary today or on Monday
<seb128> cool
<pitti> we got the daisy deployment really simplified (two commands really), started on some test infrastructure for this, have armhf retracing well underway, designed various improvements such as per-problem hooks or better comparison between distros, etc.
<xnox> Sweetshark: yes.
<Sweetshark> fun facts: creating the tarballs for a libreoffice release takes 54 minutes on a decent machine (i7-2720QM) -- and that is with a local git mirror.
<seb128> pitti, great ;-)
<smspillaz> MCR1: wanna do some testing ?
<MCR1> sure
<MCR1> smspillaz: ^^
<smspillaz> MCR1: https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.performance_1027211.2/+merge/138682 try it with both lazy positioning in the move plugin "off" and "on"
<smspillaz> its off by default as its technically not compliant, but with it "on" its about 5x faster with the nvidia driver
<MCR1> smspillaz: Sam, unfortunately we seem to have a new problem with windows getting unresponsive to mouseclicks if they were fully hidden behind other windows - still trying to find a reliable way to reproduce... seems to be a very new problem...
<pitti> good bye everyone, time to catch a flight
<smspillaz> MCR1: is this with that branch ?
<MCR1> smspillaz: no, with trunk
<smspillaz> hmm ok, that's good. because I got that once today and wondered if it was a problem with the configure buffer locks not getting released
<smspillaz> MCR1: the xshape code was touched recently
<smspillaz> MCR1: how long ago did you start getting this ?
<MCR1> smspillaz: not long ago, experienced first time today or yesterday
<MCR1> smspillaz: also my individual mousepointer is not loading when I start the system
<smspillaz> that's separate, the mouse cursor is set by the application
<smspillaz> (as strange as that sounds)
<MCR1> smspillaz: yeah, but there was a change regarding to mousepointers and now I get this...
<MCR1> smspillaz: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/0.9.9/revision/3513
<MCR1> smspillaz: I am starting your branch now...
<smspillaz> MCR1: that branch is correct, however we should probably stop changing the input shape of the frame and wrapper windows
<smspillaz> especially where the client has no defined input shape
<smspillaz> it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it that way ...
<MCR1> to be honest: I do not know ;)
<smspillaz> MCR1: btw, have you ever used callgrind ?
<MCR1> no, but gdb
<smspillaz> MCR1: callgrind is what duflu and I use to figure out performance bottlenecks
<MCR1> yeah
<GunnarHj> seb128: Good morning, Seb! Aron approved the l-s MP at bug 1076975, so now both the l-s and im-config MPs should be ready to go.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076975 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Please port input method function to use im-config" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076975
<MCR1> should learn to use it I guess
<smspillaz> its best to run compiz through that, and then look at how those particular functions can be optimized
<smspillaz> MCR1: its pretty simple - valgrind --tool=callgrind compiz --replace ccp & ... kcachegrind callgrind.out.(process id)
<MCR1> ok - will try
<smspillaz> MCR1: static analysis tools like cppcheck are somewhat helpful, but often tell you to make lots of "optimizations" that don't really do anything
<MCR1> yeah
 * Sweetshark primes his 4.0 ccache for raring.
<MCR1> sure
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, great!
<smspillaz> MCR1: also there is gDebugger, but that is a bit of a pain to use. You have to patch compiz to remove server grabs and the like
<MCR1> smspillaz: I noticed that turning off framebuffers improves performance a lot (at least on AMD, both with fglrx and gallium)
<MCR1> smspillaz: I get a assertion failed error with your branch
<MCR1> smspillaz: in configurerequestbuffer.cpp
<MCR1> smspillaz: line 151
<MCR1> smspillaz: priv->lockcount < priv->locksize() failed
<smspillaz> MCR1: it will be like that until DRI3 lands really
<smspillaz> there's not a whole lot we can do about it - its a hole in the way opengl works
<MCR1> when will that happen ?
<smspillaz> *shrug*
<smspillaz> it might be worth looking into using copySubBuffer and waitVideoSync but duflu is opposed to that for good reasons
<smspillaz> either method is bad really
<smspillaz> I have some ideas to improve the performance of framebuffer objects though
<smspillaz> but only be 5%
<smspillaz> MCR1: ok, I've fixed the assert
<MCR1> I do not know why, but framebuffer object on/off is like day/night here - the difference in speed is huge
<smspillaz> MCR1: probably beacuse you're running at a massive resolution
<smspillaz> there are two areas where performance is impacted there
<smspillaz> the first is the synchronization cost associated with glBindFramebuffer (which we do twice per-render)
<smspillaz> (that's a fixed cost)
<smspillaz> the second is what happens when your GPU fillrate can't keep up with drawing an entire texture to the backbuffer
<smspillaz> generally speaking, the second performance hit becomes worse as your resolution increases
<smspillaz> It really boils down to:
<smspillaz> 1. opengl sucks at this
<smspillaz> 2. gpu's suck at this
<MCR1> I will make some tests with other hardware (intel/nvidia) and different resolutions and write a comprehensive report then, because the default should really be chosen wisely
<MCR1> currently default is on, which sucks at least for ATI hardware...
<smspillaz> (well, sorry, gpu's rock at this, but not so much at 3840x1200)
<MCR1> and my VRAM is fast - 256bit DDR5
<smspillaz> MCR1: if your driver implements substantially faster blit operations than texturing operations then some other work I'm doing might speed that up
<smspillaz> however as far as I've seen most drivers implement blits as a texture operation
<smspillaz> which means you get the fragment pipeline overhead
<MCR1> all I am saying is, we probably should adjust the default on startup according to the hardware used...
<smspillaz> MCR1: not really - it really depends on the usage
<MCR1> to get the best performance from start for everyone
<MCR1> sure, tests are needed for that
<smspillaz> MCR1: for example, where you're updating small areas of the screen (and you don't hit the fillrate cap) glCopySubBufferMESA and glCopyPixels make more sense than drawing to a framebuffer and using glXSwapBuffers ()
<smspillaz> where you're doing large areas of the screen and can't meet the vblank deadline  with glCopyPixels or glCopySubBufferMESA then using an fbo and glXSwapBuffers makes the most sense because it happens asynchronously
<smspillaz> not meeting the vblank deadline happens more often than you might think - and its better to buffer up frames for it to process asynchronously rather than continually blocking the cpu on the gpu
<MCR1> maybe this buffering up of frames makes it feel less smooth, I do not know...
<smspillaz> well it should make it feel more smoth
<smspillaz> in any case, there are other points in our rendering code where we do gpu synchronization
<smspillaz> we can probably remove them
<smspillaz> but it will take time
<MCR1> all I know is that fbo is just essential for the water plugin, that it is less smooth here, when enabled and that it causes CCSM screenshots to be broken (blue overlay on shots)
<smspillaz> MCR1: its also required to be able to use glXSwapBuffers
<smspillaz> which is required for tear-free rendering
<MCR1> well, that is another point
<smspillaz> MCR1: its also required for the unity blurs too :)
<MCR1> AMD has a option to enable "Tear-free desktop", forcing VSync, which works very good here without FBO
<smspillaz> it will still tear sometimes
<smspillaz> waitVideoSync () doesn't make any guaruntee that your entire frame is going to end up in the front buffer
<smspillaz> all it does is give you a small window of time to ask opengl to ask the gpu to put it in the front buffer
<smspillaz> if all three don't make it in time, you get tearing
<smspillaz> SwapBuffers and SwapControl can guaruntee it because the operation to get from the backbuffer to the front buffer is atomic - it just changes a pointer
<MCR1> probably - I know that tearing has been a big problem in the past, which is loads better now... but currently I have no tearing at all, even with the youtube vsync test video
<smspillaz> however in order for that to work you have to redraw the whole backbuffer on every frame, because it gives the application an "undefined" area to draw in
<smspillaz> .... speaking of which I wonder if we clear the backbuffer on each frame ... I don't think we do
<smspillaz> nope, good
<smspillaz> MCR1: anyways, let me know how that branch goes
<smspillaz> it will only help with window movement, but it should help a lot
<MCR1> ok
<MCR1> smspillaz: got the same error again
<MCR1> smspillaz: I did not make clean, but recompiled and reinstalled
<MCR1> will reboot and retry
<smspillaz> MCR1: oh, one known bug, you'll probably get some weird resizing behaviour
<smspillaz> I'm just pushing the fix for that now
<smspillaz> (forgot to hook the relevant part of the code up)
<MCR1> I am still not sure how to force the staging Compiz to use Unity and my CCSM settings
<bizhanMona> HI is this a right channel to ask about how to create preseed iso  for Ubuntu 12.4/10 ?thx
<psivaa> didrocks: i tested the packages in http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/compiz/ but i get dependency problems in installing them
<didrocks> psivaa: hum, what dependency issue?
<didrocks> they didn't change
<psivaa> didrocks: compizconfig-settings-manager depends on  python-compizconfig, ( we are doing this in the live session btw)
<jibel> psivaa, it's because python-compizconfig in not in didrocks's folder. Either don't install compizconfig-settings-manager or install it with apt instead of dpkg and universe enabled
<psivaa> jibel: ok but even if i finish installing those packages, i have not figured out a way to restart lightdm after the package installations. could someone help on that
<xnox> psivaa: switch to tty1; stop lightdm; Ctrl-C; stop lightdm; stop ubiquity; pkill -9 X; start lightdm; all as root.
<psivaa> xnox: pkill -9 X will bring the desktop in live session even without these packages, so it actually will make the testing pointless. sudo stop lightdm just hangs
<xnox> psivaa: for reasons I have not yet troubleshooted, "sudo stop lightdm ENTER Ctrl-C  sudo stop lightdm ENTER" works.
<xnox> psivaa: sure desktop comes up without lightdm because of autologin.
<psivaa> xnox: ok thanks v much. ill try that in a bit.
<xnox> so lightdm is there if restarted after stopping the chain. But "it can be swift"
<Sweetshark> seb128: liborcus_0.3.0-2~ubuntu1.dsc is wait for review/sponsoring on chinstrap.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: and is testbuilding on https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601
<Sweetshark> (succeeded locally)
<Sweetshark> seb128: btw whats the state of libreoffice_3.5.7-0ubuntu2.dsc? precise upload-queue on lp timeouts for me ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libreoffice ... still there
<seb128> Sweetshark, btw you should reply to dholbach's email about the upload rights
<Sweetshark> seb128: meh
<Sweetshark> seb128: true. kinda sick of it though. prefer to get stuff done, instead of talking about it </sarc>
<seb128> Sweetshark, well, it shouldn't be that much talking and it would spare us both some time over the long run
<seb128> Sweetshark, liborcus seems fine, the liborcus-dev.dirs docs and README.source don't seem like they are useful though, but that's a detail
<seb128> will sponsor it
<seb128> Sweetshark, dh_install: usr/bin/orcus-xml-dump exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<seb128> Sweetshark, is that an issue?
<Sweetshark> seb128: certainly not for libreoffice, if there are other clients of orcus at some point we can reinvestigate. so: no, not an issue
<GunnarHj> seb128: The accountsservice bazaar branch in LP hasn't been updated for several months, which is inconvenient.
<GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/accountsservice/raring
<GunnarHj> What kind of issue is it? A LP bug, or something else?
<seb128> GunnarHj, it's a launchpad bug, it happens ... can you report it against https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+filebug ?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Will do.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<didrocks> mvo: hey, small question: is it possible from apt.cache.Cache() to get source package name? (it's only listing binary packages it seems)
<mvo> didrocks: yes, indirectly: source_pkgs = set(); for pkg in apt.cache.Cache(): source_pkgs.add(pkg.source_package_name)
<didrocks> mvo: ok, I wanted to know if there was a more direct way, but that works for me! :) Thanks a lot
<cyphermox> morning!
<didrocks> hey cyphermox!
<cyphermox> didrocks: ca va?
<didrocks> cyphermox: Ã§a va bien, et toi? :)
<cyphermox> ouais
<cyphermox> so, yeah, these things I have no idea what to do with now, the tests are so totally broken, plus the crash in X... I'm going crazy
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you think mterry can be some kind of help?
<cyphermox> if he wants to tackle the failing tests, it can be of help, yes
<didrocks> cyphermox: you can go over the rest (I commented on your MP btw ;))
<cyphermox> I saw
<didrocks> also, there is lp:gcovr IIRC
<cyphermox> yup
<Sweetshark>  dpkg-source --after-build libreoffice-4.0.0~beta1
<Sweetshark> dpkg-buildpackage: full upload (original source is included)
<Sweetshark> on raring ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: _rene_ just made the point that translations are likely still outdated/incomplete in the beta, so building them might cause spurious bug report. building libreoffice without that in main would obviously create update horrors.
<Sweetshark> seb128: OTOH, getting this in early is critical to get early feedback, see component mismatches, pull in the new packages etc.
<seb128> Sweetshark, well, you can see component mismatches and file MIRs etc before upload, you probably should
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, I do of course. but the real upload is always something different given the complexity of the package. in theory, theory and practice are the same. in practice, ... not so much.
<seb128> Sweetshark, sure, but you can do the obvious one upfront
<seb128> ones
<Sweetshark> seb128: note that the first upload of a new libreoffice major will always be tricky. making it later wont make it better.
<seb128> like the libs you asked me to upload this week
<Sweetshark> seb128: sure.
<seb128> not discussing that
<seb128> let's upload on monday
<seb128> but please start on the MIRs monday as well
<Sweetshark> yes, will do.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<Quintasan> Hi there, anyone knowledgeable about how input methods are handled in Ubuntu? I need some help in getting ibus to work correctly in Kubuntu
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, thanks
<mdeslaur> seb128: whoops, wrong channel
<seb128> mdeslaur, thank *you* ;-)
<qengho> kenvandine: Hi hi.  Is that "demo" chromium browser extension good for anything? It makes #security nervous.
<kenvandine> qengho, i haven't seen it
<qengho> kenvandine: Okay.  Thanks.
<qengho> kenvandine: It's a new entry in the chromium-browser.install file.  I'll figure it out.
<kenvandine> ok
<GunnarHj> seb128: still there?
<seb128> GunnarHj, sort of, why?
<GunnarHj> seb128: it's the postinst thing on the l-s merge.
<seb128> GunnarHj, yes?
<GunnarHj> seb128: postinst is essential, I think.
<GunnarHj> seb128: im-config and im-switch can't co-exist anyway.
<seb128> GunnarHj, why? what are you trying to achieve?
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, it's not right to clean files from some other packages
<seb128> GunnarHj, the way you achieve that is to make im-config Conflicts: im-switch so it get uninstalled, and you made im-switch to clean behind it on uninstall
<GunnarHj> seb128: but more important, if you only remove im-switch (which is what the package manager does), the config files are still there, and one of the "config" files is 80im-switch
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, im-switch should clean those on uninstall
<GunnarHj> seb128: it doesn't. only if you purge
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, that's an im-switch bug and should be fixed there
<seb128> GunnarHj, one way to fix it is to update 80im-switch to check if im-switch is installed (e.g by checking a file on disk) and return without doing anything if that's the case
<seb128> GunnarHj, see e.g /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80appmenu
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha, now I see. Yes, I suppose that would be possible.
<GunnarHj> seb128: But then I'll not be able to do the rest of the "cleaning". ;-)
<seb128> GunnarHj, one way is to consider 80im-switch not a conffile (it's not really) and clean it on removal and not only on purge
<seb128> same for the other files
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sounds better to me.
<seb128> that works
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'll check the im-switch package, and see if I can find out how to do it.
<seb128> GunnarHj, you can read man dpkg-maintscript-helper
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, will do, thanks.
<seb128> GunnarHj, yw
<seb128> GunnarHj, basically it's changing the im-switch postinst to call dpkg-maintscript-helper rm_conffile on remove
<GunnarHj> seb128: The last thing done by that postinst script was to remove ~/.xinput.d. Any idea about that as well?
<seb128> GunnarHj, the packages can't change user files, the user directory could be an nfs one and not mounter at the time you upgrade
<seb128> GunnarHj, you should teach language-selector (or whatever else is appropriate) to rename/delete that file on start if needed
<GunnarHj> seb128: True, but with the -f option you can try without causing a failure.
<seb128> GunnarHj, it's still wrong, packages are not supposed to touch user datas and it means upgrade is not reliable, what happens for the users where that snippet failed?
<GunnarHj> seb128: It's not needed, really. Just me who want to clean up. :)
<seb128> yeah, don't... ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Going to read that man page, now.
<seb128> GunnarHj, good luck, I'm off for the night but feel free to ping me on monday if you have questions
<kenvandine> good night seb128!
<kenvandine> have a great weekend
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks, you too!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Btw, was it any problem with the im-config MP?
<infinity> So, anyone around who cares to explain the im-switch -> im-config change, and why no one filed an MIR either for im-config or for it's new deps?
<cyphermox> infinity: there was a rather long discussion on the ubuntu-desktop mailing list about ibus and stuff, maybe the rationale is there
<cyphermox> sorry, I don't know the answer
<infinity> cyphermox: Right, well, I'm reverting it for now, so the desktop is actually installable.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> will you send an email about it on ubuntu-devel?
<infinity> I might.  Gimme a second to fix it all first. :P
<infinity> cyphermox: Though, honestly, I don't see any reason for public shaming here.  Is there a specific reason you think it needs a broader audience?
<cyphermox> certainly not for public shaming
<cyphermox> just so that people know it's been reverted, and that you want to know why it was changed, why there was no MIR, tec.
<cyphermox> infinity: or just send it to whomever did the change
<infinity> I'll just mail Gunnar (who did the upload) and Seb (who changed the seeds), since theirs are the only changes I had to revert.
<cyphermox> sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-08
<bdrung> FYI, nautilus in raring is totally crippled IMO. The tree view is gone and the menu has just one item.
<bdrung> will some features come back until the release?
<desrt> bdrung: menu has just one item?
<bdrung> desrt: the top menu has just one item
<desrt> is it 'quit'?
<desrt> that sounds like a bug...
<desrt> should have ~8
<desrt> (new window, connect to server, enter location...)
<bdrung> desrt: i refer to the top of that.
<desrt> oh.
<desrt> like one submenu called 'Nautilus"?
<bdrung> yes
<desrt> that's intentional
<bdrung> it's called "persÃ¶nlicher ordner" (in German)
<desrt> nautilus upstream is working on a fix for the release so that we have 3 menus
<bdrung> will the tree view come back?
<desrt> meanwhile i doubt the treeview will ever come back
<desrt> there is new code for a common sidebar shared between nautilus and the file chooser
<desrt> i don't think that's landed yet...
<bdrung> nautilus is going down the wrong route
<desrt> not everyone agrees with you
<bdrung> removing a feature without providing an alternative is not nice
<desrt> i'd be more angry about the missing compact mode :)
<bdrung> i use the list mode (so i haven't discovered that)
<desrt> anyway... quite a lot of people are happy with the new changes
<desrt> and they're very much in-line with GNOME and Ubuntu's desires to move away from using menus
<bdrung> how do you move a file from one directory to another?
<bdrung> a/b/c to d/e
<desrt> i can think of several ways to do that... can you be more specific about the one you're thinking about that disappeared?
<bdrung> i usually go into a/b/c and drag the file to d/e in the tree view
<desrt> ah
<desrt> ya.  that's gone, unfortunately
<desrt> you could ask upstream nautilus about that
<desrt> cosimoc is the guy you want to talk to -- but don't tell him i told you to :p
<bdrung> through which media?
<desrt> bdrung: a ping on IRC is probably best... i doubt a bug or mailing lists would help anybody at this point (since all of these things have been discussed quite a lot)
<desrt> good to let the upstream maintainer personally know that you miss a feature, though
<bdrung> desrt: in which channel?
<desrt> and maybe he can give you a justification or suggest a good alternative new feature for your usecase
<desrt> bdrung: many of them on irc.gnome.org... maybe #nautilus ?
<desrt> larsu: good morning
<larsu> desrt, hi!
<smspillaz> desrt: lol, compact view
<desrt> smspillaz: srsly.
<smspillaz> desrt: To be honest, I think apple is worse when it comes to removing old features than gnome really
<smspillaz> I had to upgrade mum's old mac to 10.7 today and
<smspillaz> oh wait, no, they removed it from the store
<smspillaz> its not compatible with 10.8
<smspillaz> and she's stuck with an unusable iphone until we get get in the usb key to upgrade it
<smspillaz> #macworldproblems
<PureAdrenallen> Hello all, I'm about to install ubuntu for the first time ever and i was wondering what the install size was related to? Does that limit the size of space on my HDD for all files I use when I use that OS?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-09
<maxiaojun> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do
<jasoncwarner> morning everyone
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso RAOF (even though you are off), robert_ancell hello!
<mlankhorst> evening
<jasoncwarner> mlankhorst you should be enjoying a sunday evening. what are you doing here?  :)
<mlankhorst> having some fun with vdpau and nouveau
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: My holidays start tomorrow.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-02
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<didrocks> good week-end?
<seb128> didrocks, hey! yes, you ?
<didrocks> same here, quiet but nice :)
<seb128> quiet is good ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va /
<pitti> ?
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va bien et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: je vais bien aussi, merci ! nous avons eu un bon week-end
<seb128> pitti, le Stollen est trÃ¨s bon, encore merci !
<pitti> seb128: de rien ! nous avons mangÃ© le premier stollen hier aussi *yummy*
<Laney> hey ho
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you ?
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? nice we?
<pitti> "weekend"
<seb128> pitti, *yummy* indeed ;-)
<Laney> hey seb128 pitti
<pitti> seb128: il Ã©tait trÃ¨s bien aprÃ¨s 4 heures de travail dans le jardin :)
<Laney> was nice thank you, played my new games a bit
<Laney> also got a grand new christmas jumper
<pitti> err, "jumper"? that must mean something different than what I think
<Laney> pulli
<pitti> oh
<pitti> right on time for the frost and snow :0
<Laney> not the electrical component :P
<larsu> so I can't install updates through update-manager anymore
<larsu> "You are not allowed to perform this action"
<larsu> I'm still in the admin group
<larsu> seb128 says it might be a problem with my polkit?!
<seb128> larsu, pkcheck might help to see if things are alright there
<larsu> hm, that string is nowhere to be found in update-manager :-/
<seb128> pkcheck seems buggy, it always opens me the manpage
 * seb128 tried pkcheck --action-id org.debian.apt.upgrade-packages
<seb128> or --help
<larsu> I tried with --process <PID>, but that makes it crash
<seb128> larsu, do you have policykit-desktop-privileges installed?
<larsu> seb128: yes: 0.16
<pitti> seb128: FTR, running with gtk 3.10 here since Sat, and the only regression that I noticed is that the ssh/gpg password dialogs are now very wide (not word wrapped any more)
<larsu> passing action id and pid make pkcheck return 0
<seb128> pitti, thanks, that's a known issue/mclasen fixed it in git this w.e
<larsu> pitti: solved last night ;)
<pitti> nice
<seb128> pitti, thanks for testing it ;-)
<seb128> larsu, I tried
<seb128> pkcheck --action-id org.debian.apt.upgrade-packages --process `pidof update-manager`
<seb128> but that opens the manpage still
<larsu> heh, not for me
<larsu> with the reverse order of arguments
<larsu> but that hopefully doesn't matterâ¦
<pitti> seb128: then pidof update-manager fails and returns nothing
<pitti> seb128: try with $$
<seb128> larsu,
<seb128> $ pkaction --verbose --action-id org.debian.apt.upgrade-packages
<larsu> ah right, I pasted the actual pid
<larsu> seb128: that opens the man pagew
<pitti> seb128: if it's running, use pidof -x update-manager
<seb128> pitti, larsu: yeah, my fault, of course the process is python...
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> larsu, what are you trying to do exactly in update-manager?
<larsu> hm, update-manager also shows me packages to update that apt-get upgrade doesn't
<larsu> seb128: update...
<seb128> normal ones?
<larsu> yep
<larsu> just the window that pops up when updates are available
<larsu> I didn't even start it manually
<seb128> I wonder if the environment of that process is wrong
<seb128> can you "strings /proc/`pidof -x update-manager`/environ" and pastebin that?
<seb128> larsu, ^^
<larsu> the packages it wants to install are "fakeroot" and "libfakeroot"
<larsu> apt-get upgrade doesn't want to do that
<pitti> seb128: oh, and telepathy-gabble is broken now (immediately crashes at startup), not sure whether that's GTK; filing/looking at trace now
<seb128> pitti, I don't know about that one, I doubt it's gtk though, telepathy connectors are non UI bits
<larsu> seb128: http://paste.debian.net/68834/
<pitti> right
<seb128> larsu, env seems alright :/
<larsu> seb128: I think the problem is the packages it wants to install
<pitti> seb128: control center seems to have a similar (no word wrap/too wide) issue, try security&privacy
<seb128> larsu, what action does it try to do?
<seb128> larsu, can you screenshot the error?
<larsu> seb128: it's just a message dialog with the string I pasted earlier
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that issue is all dialogs
<seb128> larsu, seeing the dialog would help to say if it's polkit or update-manager
<pitti> seb128: ah, mclasen fixed it in gtk git, not in the keyring dialog git?
<larsu> seb128: ah okay
<seb128> larsu, I wonder if you are simply seeing an update-manager error because e.g those packages are un-authentificated for some reason
<larsu> pitti: yeah, there was a global "don't make windows wider than 640px" in there which Company removed
<pitti> larsu: ack, thanks
<seb128> pitti, right, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-10&id=2436627eb4644234a9e577538ec334d224e3d2be
<larsu> pitti: which is obviously a correct fix, but we should wait to fix all the things it breaks before applying it :)
<larsu> seb128: http://imgur.com/CUuWFrv
<seb128> larsu, good that I asked, that's not a polit dialog :p
<pitti> larsu: right, like https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=b53b5578f
<larsu> seb128: really? I can't find this string in update-manager's source either
<seb128> larsu, it's in aptdaemon
<seb128> that's the backend update-manager is using
<seb128>     ERROR_NOT_AUTHORIZED: _("You are not allowed to perform this action"),
<larsu> ah!
<larsu> does it have something to do with the fact that apt-get upgrade doesn't want to install the new fakeroot?
<larsu> let me try installing that manually
<larsu> ya, that totally worked
<seb128> my bet is that it's going to come from an unauthentificated repository or something
<seb128> weird
<seb128> is aptd running?
<larsu> yes
<seb128> do you still have the issue now that you apt-get installed it?
<larsu> no, there's nothing more to install
<larsu> I'll have a look again later
<larsu> seb128: thanks for your help so far!
<seb128> larsu, yw
<larsu> seb128: the commit pitti linked to doesn't fix the issue for everything. I'm running the same since Friday.
<larsu> many apps have custom message dialogs, for example gedit
<pitti> larsu: no, there's another one for a different standard dialog, and similar fixes need to be added to every dialog which has that issue
<seb128> larsu, see the one I listed
<pitti> that was just one example
<seb128> just before pitti
<larsu> ah got it
<pitti> the commit seb128 pointed to fixes it for everything, but AFAIUI it's just a bandaid for the stable 3.10 branc
<pitti> that isn't in 3.11.x
<seb128> right
<larsu> makes sense
<seb128> 3.10 is what we target for the LTS though
<seb128> so if that works that's going enough for now
<seb128> we should still fix apps though
<larsu> famous last words
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's only code, what could go wrong
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> haha
<seb128> pitti, did you get the gabble bt?
<pitti> seb128: I sent it to errors, but I don't see it on "my reports", werid
<seb128> pitti, e.u.c/whoopsie seem buggy
<pitti> ah, again missing .uploaded; go whoopsie
<seb128> didrocks reported some rb issue on friday that never made it to e.u.c either
<pitti> https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/53d057e6-5b3f-11e3-91f0-2c768aafd08c
<pitti> one needs to restart whoopsie, its inotify handling is broken
<seb128> what do you mean "missing .uploaded"? is whoopsie failing to report issues when tell it to do so?
<seb128> shrug
<pitti> right
<pitti> seb128: above is my report, it has the trace
<seb128> yeah, looking at that
<pitti> "Source ID 4 was not found when attempting to remove it"
<pitti> seb128: so, certainly not GTK related, more likely the new glib becoming stricter
<seb128> pitti, do you make glib abort on errors?
<pitti> seb128: not that I know of; it's a CRITICAL
<pitti> so far we didn't abort on those, but maybe telepathy sets that
<seb128> pitti, seems like https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=a919be3d39150328874ff647fb2c2be7af3df996
<seb128> that shouldn't sigabrt though
<seb128> (doesn't for me)
<seb128> (or maybe I just didn't run into that error with gabble)
<pitti> #ifdef ENABLE_FATAL_CRITICALS
<pitti>   /* make critical warnings fatal */
<pitti>   fatal_mask = g_log_set_always_fatal (G_LOG_FATAL_MASK);
<pitti>   fatal_mask |= G_LOG_LEVEL_CRITICAL;
<pitti>   g_log_set_always_fatal (fatal_mask);
<pitti> #endif
<pitti> seb128: ah, so gabble at least supports that mode
<pitti> seb128: and according to configure.ac it defaults to yes
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> pitti, can you report the gabble issue to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Telepathy ?
<pitti> seb128: yes, will do
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> we should probably turn that flag off in the package as well
<seb128> larsu, oh, found an issue with your theme change
<seb128> larsu, if you search in nautilus, the default/first returned item is wrongly colored
<larsu> seb128: ah, also when the window is unfocussed
<seb128> right
<seb128> I noticed alt-tabbing
<larsu> are you sure this is an issue with my change? It seems unrelated to backgrounds
<desrt> pitti: so... how's them suspends?
<seb128> desrt, good early morning!
<desrt> seb128: good .. afternoon yet?
<desrt> 1 more minute? :)
<seb128> desrt, not sure I would describe 12 as "afternoon"
<seb128> the afternoon is after lunch :p
<larsu> seb128: it is indeed. I just tested.
 * larsu hates css
<seb128> larsu, :-(
<larsu> this seems totally unrelated
<desrt> seb128: time for an english lesson... ;)
<seb128> haha
<desrt> the etymology of the word afternoon is "after noon".
<desrt> woh
<desrt> TIL: forenoon is a thing
<larsu> s/is/was?
<desrt> it has a wikipedia page, so is...?
<larsu> sounds like something Queen Vicoria would have said when she was a child
<larsu> *Victoria
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> and... "forenoon" != "fore noon" and "afternoon" != "after noon" as wikipedia is happy to point out
<desrt> if you put the space in there then it goes all the way to midnight (either side)
<desrt> without the space it typically refers only to daylight hours
<larsu> so the afternoon is shorter in the winter?
<larsu> and the evening starts at 4?
<desrt> it also notes that the term has no precise definition :p
<ogra_> seb128, Laney ... is that known ? http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/evo-theme.png ... got it with msy latest trusty upgrade last week
<seb128> ogra_, seems like a theme issue, I think Laney mentioned it before uploading evo 3.10
<ogra_> k
<larsu> this looks like the issue I had in gedit
<larsu> seb128: are my theme changes already uploaded?
<seb128> larsu, no, neither is gtk 3.10
<larsu> ah
<larsu> so that's not it then :)
<seb128> not likely no ;-)
<seb128> larsu, do we still need gtk patches for o-s btw? (#gtk+)
<larsu> seb128: thanks
<seb128> larsu, thank you ;-)
<larsu> seb128: are you okay if I put the nautilus fix on the same MR?
<seb128> larsu, nautilus fix for?
<seb128> oh, the icon color
<larsu> seb128: the black icon when unfocussed
<seb128> no problem
<Laney> mmm, I see a suspicious change in evo
<seb128> Laney, one that requires to adapt themes
<seb128> ?
 * mterry stares at seb128 to review welcome-wizard
<mterry> seb128, I'm in (near?) your timezone!
<seb128> mterry, hey, how is London ?
<mterry> seb128, grey
<seb128> stating the obvious there...
<larsu> seb128: it's up if you want to have a look. https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/dont-set-all-bgs/+merge/197234
<seb128> larsu, danke
 * seb128 stares at mterry
 * mterry goes back to fighting Mir
<seb128> mterry, you are speaking about https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/ubuntu-system-settings/welcome-wizard/+merge/186862 ?
<mterry> seb128, yeah
<seb128> mterry, I reviewed that a week ago, it's Needs fixing
<mterry> seb128, ?
<seb128> mterry, I don't see anything happening since?
<mterry> seb128, huh!  I didn't get an email for that
<seb128> mterry, well, basically I'm waiting on your guys to reply to my question/address my first review comments...
<mterry> seb128, makes sesne
<seb128> mterry, that's probably because you down own the branch, it's a team one
<seb128> down->don't
<mterry> seb128, fair
<mterry> I can't seem to subscribe to just one merge request
<mterry> :(
<seb128> mterry, you can add you to the reviewers list as workaround I think
<mterry> ah, I go to the branch itself
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<cyphermox> seb128: fabulous, and you?
<cyphermox> it's going to be even more of an awesome day if I receive my SensorTag today, so I can start to work on 4.0/LE bluetooth
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm good thanks ;-)
<larsu> seb128: can I keep pushing stuff into my gtk 3.10 repo or did you make any further changes?
<larsu> I've finally fixed the settings install thing
<seb128> larsu, I did tweaks for the ppa upload
<larsu> seb128: did you upload them into a bzr repo?
<sil2100> kenvandine: hello :)
<seb128> larsu, same lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntugtk310
<larsu> seb128: so can I consider my repo as merged and do new MRs on top of that one?
<seb128> larsu, yes
<larsu> s/repo/branch
<kenvandine> good morning sil2100
<seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you? had a good w.e?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> and you?
<seb128> same ;-)
<larsu> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/properly-fix-settings-hacks/+merge/197379
<larsu> that should fix the problem :)
<seb128> grrrrrrr
<seb128> grrrrr
<seb128> I can't even commit changes today, gedit keeps hitting those gdk_window_has_native assert errors
<seb128> larsu, ok, merged, thanks!
<larsu> seb128: that only happens with overlay-scrollbars, right?
 * larsu can't reproduce it
<seb128> larsu, I guess, I didn't try disabling those
<larsu> if you have steps to reproduce, please let me know
<seb128> larsu, EDITOR=gedit bzr commit is doing it half of the time here
<seb128> like it took me 4 tries to be able to commit your gtk merge
<Sweetshark> .oO(obvious fix: EDITOR=gvim)
<seb128> Sweetshark, you don't edit with writer? ;-)
<larsu> seb128: doesn't happen for me, but I do see warnings
<larsu>  GtkScrolledWindow 0xc67880 is mapped but visible child GtkScrollbar 0xc62ed0 is not mapped
<seb128> larsu, right, those are not new, they are there half of the time since saucy
<Sweetshark> seb128: only when I have a table of contents in my commit message.
<seb128> larsu, the assert is happening when I close gedit btw
<seb128> Sweetshark, so... never? ;-)
<larsu> seb128: ah, before it saves I assume
<larsu> I'm trying for the 20th time or so, works
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> I'm back on gtk 3.8 from trusty though, I wonder if that makes a difference
<seb128> let me try with 3.10.5
<Sweetshark> seb128: Indeed I cant remember having the need for that.
<larsu> seb128: can you try that and also with GTK_MODULES= to disable o-s
<larsu> just to check if that'S the problerm
<larsu> *problem
<seb128> larsu, sure can try, but knowing it started the day you made the o-s native, it's too much of a coincidence to be something else
<larsu> ah okay
<larsu> sigh
<seb128> larsu, shrug, can't reproduce, let me try with gtk 3.8.7 again to see
<seb128> larsu, got it on the second try with 3.8
<seb128> didn't get it with 10 tries with 3.10
<seb128> so maybe it's fixed in 3.10
<seb128> larsu, it seems to have something to do with the warnings you see
<seb128> larsu, with 3.8 if I get the warning I get the segfault on closing
<seb128> I never got it without having the warning before
<seb128> with gtk 3.10 I get the warnings but no segfault
<larsu> seb128: okay, I'll investigate the warning.
<larsu> not having it is better anyway :)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> right, those are annoying me for a while
<seb128> they flood my stdout
<larsu> also, warnings usually warn about something that might be a problem :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> larsu, so I'm not able to reproduce with GTK 3.10 either, which is good
<seb128> Laney, not sure I found your translations more intuitive :p
<Laney> seb128: I didn't know how to do the scaling without it
<seb128> Laney, I'm trying to understand what you are doing/learning the canvas rotations and scaling stuff :p
<Laney> you don't have to invert the y coordinate now!
<sil2100> kenvandine: could you sponsor a package for meee?
<sil2100> :)
<kenvandine> sil2100, sure
<sil2100> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/zmqpp/ubuntu <- there's a new version here (new ubuntu one)
<sil2100> kenvandine: would be cool if you could take a look and sponsor if ok :)
<larsu> pitti: I don't have apport installed and want to get a core dump of a program. So I set ulimit -c unlimited, right? That results in a very weird issue: the command never returns after crashing, I can't ^C it, and I can't do anything in the directory I did this in (no ls, no rm)
<larsu> pitti: any idea what might be the cause of this? Kernel holding a lock?
 * larsu must reboot to make this go away
<pitti> larsu: is it actually writing the file?
<pitti> it might just be very big
<larsu> pitti: I don't see the file after a reboot, so I guess not
<larsu> when I set it to 10M I have the same problem...
<larsu> argh, now did it in my home dir
<larsu> and can't tab-complete anymore without the terminal locking up
<pitti> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern
<pitti> larsu: ^ what does that say?
<larsu> core
<pitti> that sounds fine
<larsu> I saw a kernel core dump when rebooting just now
<pitti> larsu: I got several kernel crashes recently too
<pitti> go 3.12
<larsu> sigh
<pitti> larsu: did anything make it to /var/log/kern.log before you rebooted?
<pitti> larsu: did you reboot with sysrq, or just powercycle?
<larsu> pitti: I didn't check. Is kern.log.1 the one from the previous boot?
<pitti> larsu: no, should be in kern.log; .1 is from yesterday (logrotate)
<larsu> pitti: sysrq?
<larsu> kern.log seems clean
<pitti> larsu: Alt+SysRq (usually on PrintScreen) plus "s"ync, "u"nmount, "b"oot
<pitti> the direct keyboard â kernel link if everything in userspace is FUBAR
<larsu> pitti: my system was usable, I restarted normally
<pitti> that'll sync() and remount everything r/o, so that your disk stays clean
<pitti> larsu: ah -- then you *can* check in another terminal what happens to "core"?
<pitti> larsu: I thought you said even your terminal froze
<larsu> pitti: any terminal in which I try to do anything to that directory freezes
<larsu> like, ls
<larsu> so I can't have a look whether core gets created
<pitti> ouch
<larsu> ah, found the kernel's bt further up in kern.log
<pitti> larsu: I'd say, high time to reboot with a live CD and run fsck
<pitti> if you care about your $HOME
 * larsu cares about his $HOME
<pitti> or init=/bin/bash and do it from there
<pitti> (with unmounted or readonly /home)
<pitti> ah, I think we even have this nice rescue mode in grub
<larsu> okay thanks. I'll do that
<larsu> we do?
<pitti> that'll throw you into some curses dialog which has fsck, apt repair, and other goodies
<larsu> ah nice
<larsu> pitti: http://paste.debian.net/68870/
<larsu> gedit was the program I tried to get the core from
<pitti> not that I understand much kernel stuff, but if I see BUG and ext4 in a kernel core I get the shivers..
<pitti> larsu: fsck o'clock!
<kenvandine> sil2100,  sponsored
<sil2100> kenvandine: thanks!
<mitya57> seb128: Do you have one of my poppler debdiffs locally? Looks like I deleted it from both my pc & LP :(
<seb128> mitya57, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/ubuntu-ubuntu.debdiff
<mitya57> seb128: merci!
<seb128> mitya57, btw I just commented back on the bug
<seb128> mitya57, de rien ;-)
<seb128> mitya57, we have the usual "need to rebuild libreoffice, and for that needs to deal with the new toolchain and the issues it creates"
<seb128> I would suggest waiting until Sweetshark is ready to upload 4.2 to trusty
<seb128> there is nothing that looks like it's important in that poppler 0.24.3 -> 0.24.4
<seb128> tsdgeos, not nice of you of changing sonames in a stable update :-(
<mitya57> seb128: I'm fine with doing it later, but I'll upload updated diffs anyway
<tsdgeos> seb128: you know
<tsdgeos> when i write an email warning about it
<tsdgeos> i don't expect people to be surprised about it
<seb128> tsdgeos, the issue is not being surprised, it's being able to roll out the update
<tsdgeos> well, i prefer the arch users getting the bugfix tha noone getting the bugfix
<tsdgeos> which is what would happen, no?
<seb128> right
<larsu> pitti: thanks for your help. fsck says everything's alright
<seb128> except that now we get none of the other fixes either
<seb128> or we need to revert that api change
<tsdgeos> i'm sorry, it's how we manage the project
<tsdgeos> we can argue again about it
<tsdgeos> but it is how it is
<seb128> right, it's just an unfortunate situation
<seb128> the Ubuntu archive rules mean that to be able to roll out that update with the new soname we need to rebuild everything with the new version, which includes libreoffice
<seb128> which is not an easy thing to rebuild
<seb128> oh well
<seb128> no point arguing about it, we can delay until the day we are ready to rebuild the rdepends in trusty
<pitti> larsu: does that dir with the core file work again?
<larsu> pitti: yes, but the core file it not in it...
<pitti> larsu: right, it already crashed in open(), not surprising
 * larsu nods
<larsu> if only this crash also happened in gdb, then I wouldn't have to deal with this problem :)
<larsu> I blame seb128!
<pitti> err, it doesn't happen in gdb? strange
<pitti> larsu: apport doesn't catch it either? (i. e. with a core pipe)
<larsu> pitti: "start: unknown job: apport"
<larsu> 'apport' is installed
<pitti> larsu: you have /etc/init/apport.conf ?
<larsu> yes
<pitti> larsu: your system sucks!
<larsu> haha
 * larsu hides
<pitti> larsu: err, apport wouldn't catch it if this is some binary from your $HOME (but that's not related to upstart being AWOL, of course)
<pitti> larsu: oh wait, did you sudo it?
<larsu> pitti: no, do I need to?
<larsu> ah, I do
<pitti> yes
<larsu> "Job is already running"
<seb128> larsu, copy over the /usr/bin gedit
<larsu> do I need to set core_pattern manually?
<larsu> seb128: this is the gedit from my system
<seb128> oh
<pitti> larsu: what I said, apport ignores stuff from your $HOME, as these aren't packaged
<seb128> larsu, what do you have in /var/log/apport.log?
<pitti> larsu: ok, then apport ought to catch it; check /var/log/apport.log ?
<larsu> pitti: no. core_pattern is set to core... do I need to change that to |apport manually?
<larsu> seb128: nothing
<pitti> larsu: "sudo stop apport; sudo start apport" should do that
<pitti> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern
<pitti> |/usr/share/apport/apport %p %s %c
<seb128> pitti, btw, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/00594d5c83cc8b30ba8dc5fcea3ae1a37392fb19 you are not alone hitting that one
<seb128> it's ranked 3rd on the daily trusty report
<pitti> oh, good
<pitti> seb128: sorry, didn't manage to report it yet (still have it open)
<seb128> pitti, no worry
<pitti> how would I get from my https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/53d057e6-5b3f-11e3-91f0-2c768aafd08c to the error page?
<pitti> I mean /problem/
<seb128> you can't afaik :/
<larsu> pitti: thanks. Piping to apport works indeed
<seb128> desrt, I read the #gtk+ backlog, seems like that's going to be resolved this week, good ;-)
<larsu> meh, this stacktrace doesn't help nme at all. Everything is ??
<seb128> larsu, install dbg packages
<desrt> seb128: ya... looks like we will semi-revert the change
<larsu> seb128: I have them installed
<seb128> larsu, what segfault are you getting?
<larsu> seb128: the warning we were talking about earlier (I have fatal-warnings)
<larsu> I guess today is just one of those days :(
<seb128> larsu, you can just "b gtkwidget.c:9488" in gdb (being in the gtk+ source, gtk/) and "r gtkwidget.c")
<seb128> larsu, that seems to do the trick here
<larsu> seb128: thanks! I just did something similar and have a usable backtrace now. The problem is that o-s calls unrealize() on all scrollbars whenever com.canonical.desktop.interface scrollbar-mode is changed
<larsu> and calling unrealize() on a visible widget is not the smartest thing to do...
<larsu> is anybody even using that key?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that's the recommended way to turn off o-s by user
<seb128> we also change it from g-c-c when you select an a11y theme
<larsu> ah got it
<larsu> seb128: hiding the scrollars before unmapping them fixes the warning. I hope it also fixes you crash! https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/hide-scrollbars-before-unmapping/+merge/197415
<Laney> oho, found the bad evolution commit
<Laney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699576
<ubot2> Gnome bug 699576 in general "Mail reader frame is black (in the mail view)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> anyone on shell here? darkxst?
<Laney> nm, I'll just test it myself
<seb128> pitti, ok, just got your gabble issue, it happens when you turn off wifi (did that by error while playing with settings)
<seb128> Laney, I did some extra minor nitpick on your axis work, sorry about that :p
<Laney> hrhr
<seb128> Laney, also that seems a lot of efforts for a graph (well, adding the legend, if we start considering the labels/shifting of ticks), not sure if we should delay that
<Laney> gosh I can't see that one pixel
<Laney> did you zoom a screenshot?
<seb128> no, but I can if you want
<Laney> yeah the api makes working on it quite difficult
<Laney> no it's ok
<Laney> just wondering how you saw it :P
<seb128> well, they look off on my external monitor
<pitti> seb128: it happens every time I try to go online with empathy (i. e. when jabber wants to start); but I guess there are different conditions when it can happen
<seb128> pitti, I guess so
<Laney> btw I was thinking you'd only do 15 minute increments
<Laney> err, 10 minute
<Laney> so 9:03 would show the 9:10 tick and there would be a 7 minute gap
<Laney> maybe that would look weird
<seb128> that would yes
<seb128> I would prefer cut 3 minutes then
<seb128> and show 9
<Laney> mmm
<seb128> or I would prefer just keep what you did
<seb128> have the 6 hours markers
<seb128> and put no text
<seb128> and not have to deal with those details :p
<Laney> I guess so
<Laney> now they mean "now", "1 hour ago", etc
<Laney> which is probably ok for now
<seb128> right
<Laney> ok /me takes a screenshot to zoom in
<seb128> we need more design input on the behaviour if we add the labels
<Laney> miss that compiz feature
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's still there
 * Laney draws some fire on the screen
<seb128> you need to enable it in ccsm
<Laney> that program scares me
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> YOU LIE!
<seb128> ?
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/28TITpVmhSchI01kvxnMXs
<seb128> are you calling me a liar?
<seb128> right, that screenshot confirms what I was saying :p
<seb128> maybe we are speaking about different thing
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> I should perhaps say (0,0) should be painted
<Laney> you want that one pixel filled in?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> I see
<seb128> it looks weird like that
<seb128> at least to me
<seb128> if you disagree, we might want to ask a designer what they think, or do a pool there
<seb128> I've no taste for pixel precision stuff, so maybe I'm just the one being weird there ;-)
 * Laney wonders how you do that
<seb128> paint a point?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I only know how to do lines :(
<seb128> ctx.fillRect(x,x,y,y)
<seb128> sorry
<Laney> ah
<seb128> (x,y,1,1)
<Laney> I got it
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> now it randomly draws two sets of axes
<Laney> ok there
<seb128> Laney, you didn't like the fillRect suggestion? (I don't care much, it's just what internet results suggested doing)
<Laney> it uses a different style
<Laney> so I just used the one we already had
<seb128> oh, right, makes sense
<Laney> this api seems really buggy on nouveau
<Laney> keep getting glitches
<seb128> thanks for the fix, that looks good (though I'm unsure if the lines are not a bit long, the 0,0 look a bit "strong", I'm not going to nitpick on that one anymore though ;-)
<Laney> like how it breaks if you rotate on the device
<Laney> that doesn't even get fixed if you force a repaint
<Laney> length> should be easy to tweak
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> speaking of refresh, at some point I want to make the graph dynamic
<seb128> like refresh/translate if you keep the panel open
<seb128> it doesn't do that atm
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> that would be good
<seb128> Laney, do you want to tweak the length or just get that in?
<Laney> you try some different values and see what you like :P
<Laney> or follow up with it later
<seb128> Laney, well, I tested on my desktop, you tested on the device, let's optimize for the device ;-)
<sil2100> seb128: hello! Did you have a moment to re-review the unity-voice after our fixes? Since we might have missed the notice
<seb128> sil2100, hey, sure
<ogra_> seb128, Laney, any idea why locale disagrees about the locale setting on my phone ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6510308/
<Laney> hmm, not having much fun trying to use user switching
<seb128> Laney, getting blank screen, xorg sigabrt, etc?
<Laney> just blank
<ali1234> Laney: bug 1256150
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256150
<seb128> Laney, likely fixed by https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/lightdm/vt-double-unref-fix/+merge/197247
<Laney> seems to have lost my main session
<seb128> if you want to try it
<seb128> right
<seb128> you got a vt on top of it
<seb128> that's this bug
<Laney> could be
<Laney> ta
<seb128> thanks ali1234 for tracking it and fixing it
<seb128> we just need to nag robert_ancell to get the fix merged/uploaded
<Laney> ogra_: interesting
<seb128> ogra_, is logging done through pam?
<ogra_> logging ?
<seb128> maybe you have a .profile or something that overwrite those?
<ogra_> you mean login ?
<seb128> login
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> yeah :p
<ogra_> it is done by lightdm in an autologin setup
<seb128> ok
<seb128> weird
<ogra_> i have the default .profile file in the phablet homedir
<seb128> is the issue new?
<Laney> for me adb shell locale shows that but locale from the terminal is right
<ogra_> seb128, no idea i just tried running locale for the first time ever on a phone i thinnk
<seb128> is adb shell going through our stack/pam for auth?
<ogra_> seb128, sudo is
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# sudo -u phablet -i locale
<ogra_> LANG=
<ogra_> LANGUAGE=
<ogra_> LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> and sudo -u phablet -i is what all our tools use when they run any cmdline commands via adb
 * ogra_ would try the terminal app, but bug 1255999 doesnt allow me to
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1255999 in ubuntu-keyboard (Ubuntu) "[regression] if switched to non english local, the keyboard does not come up when an input field is focused" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255999
<seb128> ogra_, can you strings /proc/`pidof unity8`/environ to see if that happens for the system jobs
<ogra_> will check ...
<seb128> ok, I need to go
<seb128> bbl
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6510375/
<ogra_> ah, he is gone
 * ogra_ hugs Laney for fixing his mail 
<ochosi> robert_ancell: ping
<robert_ancell> ochosi, hello
<ochosi> robert_ancell: we talked about an issue with the guest session in ubuntu and it also affected xubuntu with light-locker obviously
<ochosi> robert_ancell: we reported a bug as you suggested, and ali1234 was even able to track down the issue and write a patch for it, but then it was marked "invalid" today without explanation: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1256150
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Confirmed]
<ochosi> any clue what that is about?
<robert_ancell> the xorg component was marked invalid, as it's a bug in lightdm
<ochosi> oh right, i didn't look closely enough... sry :/
<ochosi> well anyway, the other thing was i wanted to make you aware of it, so one fail, one win
<robert_ancell> np
<robert_ancell> yeah, will try and get that fix out today
<ochosi> it has been tested also (as the comment suggests)
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> thanks a lot!
<ochosi> will you backport it for saucy too?
<ochosi> robert_ancell: ^
<robert_ancell> ochosi, yes
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-03
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<ali1234> morning
<seb128> hey ali1234, how are you?
<ali1234> fine thanks :)
<seb128> ali1234, well done one fixing that lightdm bug, I need to restart with the update to see if it works for me as well ;-)
<ali1234> turns out it was timing related after all... timing of finalize() anyway
<ali1234> i'm just waiting for my xfwm4 patches to be accepted, then we have completely seamless backgrounds from login to logout on xubuntu
<Laney> hey
<Sweetshark> Moin!
<seb128> hey Laney Sweetshark
<Laney> hey seb128 Sweetshark
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> good! you?
<Laney> pretty decent thanks
<seb128> larsu, do you know in which case GtkTreeView uses a GtkAdjustment for vertical scrolling or not?
<larsu> seb128: I'm not sure. I assume when the minimum sizes of the columns exceed the width of the tree view?
<seb128> larsu, is that dynamic?
<seb128> larsu, I'm trying to make sense of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1024590
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1024590 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in _on_download_changed(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get_value'" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> that code does
<seb128>             adj = self.get_vadjustment()
<seb128>             is_scrolled_down = (adj.get_value() + adj.get_page_size() ==
<seb128>                                 adj.get_upper())
<larsu> seb128: it is dynamic, but you can fix it by setting GtkTreeViewColumn::fixed-width
<seb128> but sometime vadjustment is null
<larsu> oh
<seb128> I'm pondering just putting a "if adj is not None" in there
<seb128> I don't know that code, but it's topping e.u.c for ages and mvo/glatzor don't seem to have time for that nowadays
<larsu> vadjustment can definitely be NULL
<larsu> according to the docs
<seb128> right
<seb128> if there is no adjustement in use
<mvo> seb128: actualy I probably would have done exactly this
<seb128> that is_scrolled_down seems a bit weird to me
<larsu> why does this code need to know whether it's scrolled down?
<seb128> mvo, ok, sending a mp your way then
<seb128> larsu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6513667/
<seb128> larsu, seems to stick you at the end of the list if you got there and new entries get added
<larsu> ah okay, that makes sense
<larsu> ya, just check for NULL (or None)
<seb128> mvo, hey btw, how is your cold? feeling better?
<mvo> seb128: much better, good enough to play hockey yesterday even :) but wasn't my most spectacular performance, so not fully recocvered yet
<seb128> nice
<seb128> well, you can't master it every time ;-)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the code is iirc a port from what synaptic is doing when you are at the last column, then it keeps you there (assuming you want to see the progress of the latest item)
<mvo> seb128: :)
<seb128> mvo, is there a way to "simulate" an update? I wonder in which case that happen
<larsu> seb128: most likely when there's no scrolling, because you don't need an adjustment then
<seb128> larsu, well, I tried to reproduce by installing updates and resizing that widget to size where it requires scrolling or not without hitting the bug
<seb128> oh well, checking None should work
<seb128> mvo, is
<seb128>         try:
<seb128>             iter = self._download_map[uri]
<seb128> a way to check if the list of download is displayed or not?
 * seb128 is not even sure to understand the logic of this try/except
<mvo> seb128: it adds uris it does not know about yet to its internal download dict, if you want I can give this a go now, I would reorganize it a little bit so that the adding is done earlier and the adj is done later
<mvo> seb128: so that its easier to follow what is happening (plus add a comment whats going on)
<seb128> mvo, if you want to do it (and fix the None case) that would be great ;-)
<mvo> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/main/revision/963 - hopefully a bit clearer now :)
<pitti> desrt: could we do a -shim release 6? seems there's not much progress on the remaining failurs, so let's at least fix the known ones now
<seb128> mvo, it is, thanks a lot!
<Laney> shim shimmy shim
<seb128> mvo, bonus point if you SRU that commit to saucy, it's the most report issue on https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2013.10&period=day
<mvo> seb128: heh, ok
<seb128> mvo, danke ;-)
<mvo> seb128: checking out why I get some testfailures curently, but I think its unreleated
<seb128> mvo, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/607c057bd7dfbb680a4bc490692e13d694f70994 is high ranked as well, would it make sense to just ignore those error (e.g try/except them)?
<mvo> seb128:
<mvo> Sorry, you are not a member of a group that is allowed to see the data from error reports. Please fill out this form to request access. :/ let me read this form first
<seb128> urg
<seb128> mvo, that's https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202754
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1202754 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with SystemExit in exit(): 0" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> mvo, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/145273757/Traceback.txt
<mvo> seb128: yes, I think that is ok, this is one of those rarther useless reports
<seb128> mvo, it's creating lot of apport prompting noise, let's just silent that then ;-)
<seb128> Mirv, congrats on getting upload rights for the qt stack ;-)
<Mirv> thanks seb128 :)
<Laney> mlankhorst: bug #1197921 looks like a you thing
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1197921 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Saucy) "LibreOffice spreadsheet causes full Xorg crash with Anti-Aliasing enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197921
<Laney> want to sponsor?
<mlankhorst> i can't sponsor pixman
<mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1
<Laney> sure you can
<mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=1&memo=90&start=90
<mlankhorst> besides it's already queued
<mlankhorst> requires some sru admin to accept it
<Laney> ok
<Laney> can you make the status be "In Progress" then?
<seb128> lunch, bbiab
<GunnarHj> seb128: ping?
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hello, Seb!
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'm thinking of adding a task to bug #991002. The reason is that Bengali (and not Bangla) is used in the "Choose an input source" window in "Text Entry". However, I have failed to figure out which package is affected. Can you possibly give me a hint on how/where that list is created?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 991002 in GLibC "Change name for bn-BD from 'Bengali(Bangladesh)' to 'Bangla(Bangladesh)')" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991002
<desrt> pitti: sure
<mlankhorst> anyone wants to do some testing of mesa 10 before I upload it to trusty?
<mlankhorst> I've tested direct + indirect rendering, swrast fallback, piglit runs on the 3 major hw vendors and the fallback to 1.4 (fix for slow unity blur on intel)
<seb128> mlankhorst, yes, likely the touch guys and some unity guys, do you have it in a ppa?
<mlankhorst> ppa:canonical-x/x-staging
<mlankhorst> oh I've done unity testing too
<seb128> that's a thrown it all ppa though
<mlankhorst> it works, surprisingly
<mlankhorst> and it kept working after upgrading to xorg 1.15 too
<mlankhorst> sec I'll copy it to ubuntu-x-swat
<Laney> haha surprisingly
<Laney> confidence inspiring
<mlankhorst> Laney: I was more worried about the xmir patch from xorg 1.15 failing than mesa
<Laney> :>
<seb128> we are not going with 1.15 (yet) anyway
<mlankhorst> no I put it in the ppa for testing :P
<seb128> desrt, I like how you unassigned yourself from that hud bug ;-)
<seb128> desrt, good morning!
<mlankhorst> I've copied mesa10 to ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/ppa
<desrt> seb128: hi :)
<desrt> seb128: larsu made me do it :)
<desrt> if it wasn't for him i would had just happily ignored it :p
<larsu> desrt: well, I pointed you to it with the comment that you should "do something about it"
<seb128> haha
<seb128> larsu +1
<desrt> *cough*
<desrt> seb128: maybe not +1 if you knew what his suggestion about what to do with it was :p
<seb128> drop the hud?
<seb128> (what do I win? :p)
<desrt> for best original idea?
<larsu> I did not say that (but think it, of course)
<seb128> larsu, desrt: I know you guys :p
<desrt> no.  we did not consider this line of thinking :p
<larsu> so, qqmlpropertymap is broken in 5.2 :-/
<seb128> larsu, "fun"
<seb128> good that we didn't land that update yet
<larsu> ya
<seb128> it means you can just open a blocker bug
<larsu> and assign it to mardy \o/
<seb128> Mirv, can you get somebody helping looking at a qt 5.2 regression if we open it with a testcase?
<seb128> Mirv, didrocks: when is qt 5.2 supposed to land?
<didrocks> seb128: it needs to be released first ;)
<didrocks> 10th Dec 2013, it seems
<didrocks> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-5.2-release
<didrocks> then, let's wait for Mirv, I know he's tracking the regressions and fixes
<seb128> didrocks, well, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/revision/569
 * larsu opens a bug in the meantime
<seb128> didrocks, oh, I misread the commit message, I though we were making stuff depends on 5.2
<larsu> seb128: how do I mark it blocking the qt release?
<seb128> there is still the alternative though
<didrocks> interesting, so we are stuck on releasing unity8 trunk until Qt is uploaded
<didrocks> "nice"
<seb128> didrocks, no, I misread that, sorry ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, there is a |
<seb128> didrocks, Mirv: ^ can you reply to larsu's question about how to mark a bug blocker for 5.2 landing?
<didrocks> Mirv would konw
<seb128> didrocks, sorry I included you in the pings there because it seems close from eod for Mirv and I supposed you would maybe know ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I would in this evening meeting, thanks!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Did you miss my question around 14:06?
<larsu> Mirv, seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtdeclarative-opensource-src/+bug/1257322
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1257322 in qtdeclarative-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "gsettings-qt doesn't work with Qt 5.2" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> GunnarHj, I did read it but was dealing with other pings and forgot, sorry
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> GunnarHj, looking
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, no problem.
<seb128> GunnarHj, you should ask attente, he knows better about the text input dialog, he wrote it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll do. Thanks!
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
<seb128> attente, ^ fyi (Gunnar wondering about why the text entry panel lists Bengali (should be Bangla) ... where is the list coming from?
<GunnarHj> attente: Hi! Repeating the q I asked seb128:
<GunnarHj> attente: I'm thinking of adding a task to bug #991002. The reason is that Bengali (and not Bangla) is used in the "Choose an input source" window in "Text Entry". However, I have failed to figure out which package is affected. Can you possibly give me a hint on how/where that list is created?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 991002 in GLibC "Change name for bn-BD from 'Bengali(Bangladesh)' to 'Bangla(Bangladesh)')" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991002
<attente> GunnarHj, seb128, it seems to be /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.xml
<seb128> xkb-data then
<seb128> attente, thanks
<attente> i guess if we just change the one description, it might fix it
<GunnarHj> attente: So it seems; I'm going to submit a MP then. Thanks!
<seb128> GunnarHj, open an upstream bug, I doubt we are going to distro patch that without it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Will do.
<seb128> mterry, is there plan to make unity-greeter a proper upstart session (or at least run e.g dbus through an upstart-session job)?
<mterry> seb128, there was a request for that, and it will probably happen in unity8-greeter.  I don't know about the demand for unity-greeter to have it
<seb128> mterry, ted says that bug #1257251 is likely due to that (or the lack of it rather)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1257251 in indicator-power (Ubuntu) ""exiting: service couldn't acquire or lost ownership of busname" errors on the greeter logs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257251
<mterry> seb128, hmm, is there a symptom or just log errors?
<seb128> mterry, log spamming mostly, but it indicates things not being started/stopped as they should, so I wouldn't exclude apport reports or side effects
<seb128> mterry, basically my guess is that dbus is going down before the indicator-stop signal is sent and that upstart tries to respawn indicators in between
<mterry> seb128, hmm, right.  Because I think we run upstart now for indicators where we didn't before.
<seb128> mterry, correct
<seb128> mterry, we should at least make sure the indicator-stop signal is sent before taking dbus down, if the greeter is doing both
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time
<seb128> qengho_, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu: hey
<desrt> quiet meeting
 * seb128 rings bell
<seb128> good morning desktopers :p
<attente> hi :)
<seb128> seems so
<seb128> let's try to get started
<seb128> qengho_, hey!
<mlankhorst> g'day mate
<seb128> ok, maybe qengho_ is still on extended turkey eating w.e ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<desrt> you know how turkey makes you feel when you've had too much...
<mlankhorst> same as chicken!
<desrt> nobody is here today!!
<seb128> Sweetshark, you have no turkey excuse!
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey (at least somebody who is here ;-)
<mlankhorst> hey
<Laney> *** Ping timeout
<desrt> *** mlankhorst quits [Ping timeout]
<mlankhorst> preparing mesa 10, and testing it. upload xorg 1.15 to ppa
<desrt> damnit
<Laney> :D
<desrt> Laney wins
<mlankhorst> gsd optimus bugs LP #1224254
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1224254 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu Precise) "xrandr Xerrors with the nvidia binary drivers (optimus)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1224254
<seb128> lol
<mlankhorst> some testing on xorg 1.15 too
<seb128> mlankhorst, are you claiming credit for tseliot or is it the other way around? ;-) (he has a debdiff of the optimus report)
<mlankhorst> ^D
<mlankhorst> seb128: oh I helped him find some issues
<seb128> oh ok, thanks for that ;-)
<mlankhorst> I couldn't reproduce it locally but I had a hunch
<seb128> can you share the ppa info again for the mesa 10 update?
<seb128> in case other people want to test it
<mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/ppa/+packages
<tseliot> yes, I was sabotaging myself when debugging and mlankhorst helped me realise that :D
<seb128> ^ testing of that is welcome
<seb128> tseliot, mlankhorst: glad you guys figured it out in any case ;-)
<mlankhorst> I've tested the slow dash bug on g33, tested the 3 major vendors and also did smoke test to see if indirect still worked
<seb128> seems like a good start
<mlankhorst> only broken on glamor-egl, not going to be fixed before 1.15
<seb128> hum
<mlankhorst> there's a glx rewrite in 1.15
<seb128> is that a regression?
<mlankhorst> no :p
<seb128> are you sure? ;-)
<mlankhorst> yes :p
<seb128> ok, fine then
<mlankhorst> it's fixed by a glx rewrite
<mlankhorst> but that is such a massive delta that I'm not going to try to get it in 1.14
<seb128> well, let's see about 1.15 that's another topic, need more discussion/planning in any case
<seb128> right
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<mlankhorst>  47 files changed, 3580 insertions(+), 42560 deletions(-)
<mlankhorst> though most deletions are autogenerated code
<seb128> the diff is nice ;-)
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hallo
<Laney> â¢ Code reviews on some timezonemap contributions from David Shea at Redhat
<Laney> â¢ Porting work to help libav transition along, which went with samba and e-d-s; all got migrated in the end
<Laney> â¢ Investigation of a Qt bug with respect to time printing; turned out to be fixed in 5.2
<tseliot> BTW thanks a lot for your help mlankhorst!
<Laney> â¢ u-s-s work: Rewrite graph axis drawing code in battery panel to more closely reflect the design (have 'big' and 'small' ticks) and to make the line drawing a bit simpler. Look into 'smoothing' the graph but the library didn't work properly.
<Laney> â¢ u-s-s: Discover that there's an antialiasing property on Canvas which improves the visual quality quite a lot.
<Laney> â¢ u-s-s: Some small reviews too
<Laney> â¢ Bisect evolution to find out when the message preview pane went black, find the affected commit & revert it, pinging on the upstream bug
<Laney> â¢ Package & upload new glib; exposed some regressions, wiggle jenkins/britney to get the reverted version (which seb128 uploaded, cheers) to migrate
<Laney> â¢ In gaps, look at webkitgtk/arm64 now that qemu-arm64 works. Still not there but it inches along.
<Laney> â¢ Patch pilot
<Laney> â¢ DMB meeting
<Laney> NUL
<seb128> how is webkitgtk going? did you manage to build enough to hit the errors in qemu? how slow is that?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it's not terrible
<Laney> the problem is my knowledge at this point, should file it upstream
<seb128> do you think you can get it resolved this week? should we talk about a plan B to force migrate it without arm64?
<Laney> it will migrate
<seb128> btw there is a new point release, not sure it fixes any arm64 issue?
<Laney> nah, trying that one
<Laney> the problem is when we try to build something against the new version
<Laney> and it doesn't get an arm64 build
<seb128> well, 2.3 is still in trusty-proposed
<seb128> what is blocking migration?
<Laney> i blocked it
<seb128> oh ok
<Laney> because it's a development release
<Laney> so I didn't want to let it migrate if it wasn't going to work
 * seb128 wants the new goa (with gtk support in its own binary), is that still blocked on webkit?
<Laney> yeah, IIRC
<Laney> although we might be able to replicate the split with our current package
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> let's see if webkit clears out
<seb128> if it's not done by next week I'm going to have a look to goa, I want that dealt with before holidays if possible
<seb128> desrt, hey
<Laney> I'll try trunk with the small patch and then forward it upstream
<desrt> what's up?
<desrt> oh.  right.
<desrt> - dconf
<desrt> fixing lots of bugs, writing tests, getting coverage up to 100% for most components and finally, a bunch of new features for the phone guys for OEM overrides
<desrt> also did the usual random side stuff here and there with small bugs in glib, etc.
<desrt> that's all
<seb128> desrt, dconf "lots of bugs" ... anything that seems like it happens in practice and should be SRUed?
<desrt> no.  mostly RFEs
<desrt> dconf doesn't really have real bugs :p
<desrt> well... i mean, there are theoretical things...but nothing important
<desrt> things like what happens if a client receives an invalid dbus message from the service
<desrt> ...but the service doesn't send those messages
<desrt> it would be possible to send random dbus messages to programs using dconf and get criticals but.... i don't really think that's SRU-worthy :)
<seb128> right, doesn't seem worth SRUing
<seb128> desrt, thanks ;-)
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
 * desrt was just writing testcases on the basis of "what could possibly go wrong here?" and found some stuff
<attente> low-hanging fruit the past week, mostly MPs for some outstanding bugs in unity-gtk-module
<attente> looked into the libre-office shortcuts problem, apparently it's fixed upstream now
<attente> the compiz MP for handling input switching shortcuts needs some more changes before it can be accepted
<attente> also doing some more compiz changes to try to move away from the legacy key grabber in g-s-d under unity
<attente> (eof)
<qengho_> seb128: I'm ready.
<seb128> attente, @lo: great, do you have a commit reference?
<attente> seb128, let me find it, one sec
<seb128> attente, also to the compiz mp one, just curious what needs fixing there
<attente> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d77483f0ab1a7f97ec41adfac66d98696adeef70&h=libreoffice-4-1
<attente> seb128, MC Return was worried about regressions
<attente> also about whether it would work well enough with CCSM
<desrt> MC Return?
<desrt> please tell me this is our new name for ted
<seb128> one of the compiz active guys
<larsu> desrt: LOL
<seb128> lol
<desrt> damn
<larsu> that might have been the funniest thing I've read all week
 * attente *whoosh*
<larsu> attente: "return;"
<attente> oh, heh
<desrt> </derail>
<attente> seb128, if you want to follow it, here's the thread: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/compiz/modifier-tweaks/+merge/196300
<seb128> attente, thanks, going to read that after the meeting
<seb128> larsu, hey
<larsu> - got gtk 3.10 ready for landing; pushed patch to solve build issues upstream
<larsu> - amended overlay-scrollbar fixes after talking to Cimi and fix warnings (which allegedly led to crashes on some French computers)
<larsu> - fixed ubuntu-themes issues with new gtk and overlay-scrollbars
<larsu> - ido: merged outstanding request (+/- keys), fix two greeter crashes
<larsu> - fixed action issue in indicator-power that the new glib uncovered
<larsu> - looked into gsettings-qt not working with 5.2 (confirmed it's a qt issue)
<larsu> eof
<desrt> larsu: that action patch was awesome, btw
<seb128> larsu, thanks, great work on GTK/o-s/theme/etc
<larsu> desrt: thanks for making me do the extra bit ;)
<larsu> seb128: :)
<seb128> GTK 3.10 is in the desktop team ppa for those of you who want to test
<desrt> you fixed the issue, fixed some other related conceptual cleanliness issues _and_ removed a net of 50 lines of code
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
<desrt> larsu: now... start working on 3.12 :)
 * desrt hides
<seb128> qengho_, hey, your turn if you are still around ;-)
<qengho_> YAY!
<qengho_> * Got awesome PPA to streamline build-test-release. armhf isn't 100 hours any m
<qengho_> ore.
<qengho_> * More apparmor tweaking and testing for chromium-browser.
<qengho_> * Tested chromium-browser after libnss change, updated apport reporting. About t
<qengho_> o release 31.0.1650.57 to #security.
<qengho_> * To-do: apparmor tightening testing more. accessibility on Linux. decide third-party-cookies default.
<qengho_> EOF
<seb128> qengho_, 30.0.1599.114-0ubuntu0.13.10.2  is stucked in trusty-proposed for a month, do you know what's going on there?
<seb128> autopkgtest for chromium-browser 30.0.1599.114-0ubuntu0.13.10.2: FAIL (Jenkins: public, private)
<seb128> (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html)
<seb128> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-chromium-browser/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/34/console
<qengho_> seb128: er, no. I think I remember something from weeks ago, but I don't remember what it was.
<seb128>        -> Cannot install libunity-webapps-chromium; apt errors follow:
<qengho_> Oh.
<qengho_> OH.
<Laney>  E: Package 'libunity-webapps-chromium' has no installation candidate
<qengho_> I'll look into that. I don't remember
<seb128> qengho_, can we get that resolved this week? it sucks to be delay for > 1 month, we should be more on top of such issues
<Laney> yeah, pretty sure we pinged about that
<seb128> delayed*
<seb128> qengho_, thanks
<qengho_> Laney: I think so too. And I think it was simple to discover theproblem.
 * Laney nods
<seb128> it seems like that just got forgotten in the middle of other stuff
<seb128> let's get it resolved this week
<seb128> qengho_, thanks, let me know if you need help/if we should maybe force the migration over it (check with didrocks though, I think he mentioned loosing tabs/chrome when trying that version)
<seb128> (I should try it as well)
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey (sorry forgot you earlier)
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Made PPD-less PCL 5c/e printing working.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.42 with full support for PPD-less printing on PWG Raster (IPP Everywhere), PostScript, PDF, PCL 5c/e, and PCL-XL printers and numerous bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> - synced some printer driver packages from Debian.
<tkamppeter> - Working on Landscape format output bug in Poppler.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs
<tkamppeter> Note, PPD-less printing is for printing without drivers and printer setup tool on mobile devices.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> tkamppeter, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/1131854 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1131854 in cups (Ubuntu) "cupsd crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base()" [High,Confirmed]
<qengho_> didrocks: I'm interested in if you have tabs/chrome problem with PPA version, @ https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/stage
<seb128> tkamppeter, it would be nice if you could have a look, that bug got 2424 reports
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> ok, my turn
<tkamppeter> seb128, will do, but not sure whether it is CUPS, can also be Avahi.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> ok, my turn
<seb128>  * tested new GTK, reported some bugs, tested some patches
<seb128>  * backported some fixes for nautilus issues
<seb128>  * ran into rhythmbox issues with new glib, looked at n-m on touch issues as well, ended up reverting some upstream commit to workaround the issues
<seb128>  * ubuntu-system-settings
<seb128>    - some code reviews
<seb128>    - some easy UI tweaks, small changes to deal with toolkit deprecations, reported some toolkits before/feature requests on the way
<seb128>    - looked at bit more to the autopilot tests, almost ready for merging
<seb128>  * kept looking at e.u.c, poked at some of the issues, pinged people, trying to get things moving/fixes landing
<seb128>  * lot of discussions about bugs, patches, debugging, etc that I didn't list and don't remember in details
<seb128>  (just feeling like I've spent most of the week bouncing between bugs/providing debug infos/forwarding those, fixing some, etc)
<Laney> fun
<larsu> seb128: thanks for helping out with testing gtk
<seb128> larsu, yw!
<seb128> I should take more notes about all the bugs I bounce in-between, I always fail to remember half of those for the meeting summary
<Laney> is it weird that I kind of liked the long dialogs?
<larsu> Laney: yes
<larsu> have you seen them in a language that has longer words on average?
<seb128> Laney, you don't know what you are talking about
<Laney> hahaha
<seb128> Laney, https://bug719516.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=263099
<seb128> Laney, I guess you didn't get that? ;-)
<Laney> man, that is claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassy
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you are weird indeed :p
<desrt> seb128: talking about every single bug during the meeting would be insane
<Laney> nah, probably didn't see one that bad
<seb128> desrt, yeah, sometime I've a few interesting one/topic worth mentioning though (like those long dialogs ;-)
<seb128> one*s*
<seb128> I should note those down
<desrt> END MEETING
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, still not around?
<seb128> desrt, let's see, Sweetshark woke up on another channel, he might want to give his update there
<desrt> oh.  nice.
<Sweetshark> seb128: reporting in.
<Sweetshark> seb128: sorry.
 * desrt airlifts some fritzkola to Sweetshark, amazon style
<seb128> hey Sweetshark, nice from you to join us ;-)
<desrt> wake up, man!!
<larsu> desrt: that amazon piece was the most brilliant PR move I've seen in a while
<seb128> lol
<larsu> free ads in all major pulibcations on a day before the busiest online shopping day in the US
<larsu> *publications
<seb128> Sweetshark, zzzZZzzzz
<Sweetshark> seb128: so, late feature reviews upstream, some work on separating l10n out of the build (should be finished upstream, but needs tweaking in ./debian) EOF
<desrt> seb128: maybe we need to up the ante to club mate
<larsu> oh yeah
 * larsu is out :(
<seb128> club mate, no thanks
<desrt> seb128: not for you.  for Sweetshark.
<seb128> right, it seems like he could need it (and it would mean I would need to get it if he drinks it all)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks ;-)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> questions/comments/...
<seb128> oh, one comment from me
<seb128> we should know soon if there is a desktop week in january/february
<seb128> msm was out last week but that's supposed to be discussed this week
<desrt> seb128: first week of february, please :)
<seb128> I've hinted for that
<desrt> and in london...
<Laney> thinking london?
<Laney> (boo)
<desrt> yes.  i'm always looking for a side event to make it worthwhile to go to FOSDEM
<seb128> Laney, that would be good, it would one trip for those who want to go to FOSDEM
<Laney> but cool, desktop week
<seb128> (well, counting London<->Brussel has a short one)
 * desrt has a free ride offered from norwich to brussels and back, for that weekend
<larsu> +1 for London
<Laney> week after fosdem would be preferable
<Laney> (if there's a choice)
<desrt> week before has a hackfest, for me
<desrt> again, in norwich...
<Laney> ah, norwich is nice
<Laney> what's the hackfest?
<desrt> gnome docs
<seb128> (</end of meeting>)
 * desrt likes to use gnome docs hackfests as a chance to catch up on his documentation in addition to being on hand for all of the other people to ask how stuff in our platform is supposed to work before they attempt to document it
<Laney> neat
<larsu> desrt: thanks for that. I imagine it improves docs a lot
<desrt> larsu: we have a nice pattern down.  and HowDoIs came out of the last time and i was at such an event...
 * desrt is still on the fence about howdoi for dconf vendor/framework/app-provided (gdm?) profiles
<larsu> desrt: do it!
<desrt> "there's this thing that i don't want you to do... but you're going to do it anyway... and you're probably going to do it wrong... so at least let me tell you how to do it right..."
 * desrt loves (for example) how ibus uses a system-db and a custom profile to get default values, as an alternative to gsettings schemas
<didrocks> qengho: sorry, was in meeting, you want to hurt my chrome again? :p
<larsu> desrt: but ... why?
<qengho> didrocks: YES!
<desrt> larsu: i have no idea.  i'm asking around.
<didrocks> qengho: ok, doing ;)
<didrocks> (and eventually hating you soon)
<larsu> desrt: ah... "love" was sarcastic
<qengho> didrocks: I heard you had trouble with a recent chromium. I want to make sure it's all in your head.
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> let's see
<desrt> larsu: apparently they came to the conclusion (on their own) that what they were doing was awful and switched to using gsettings
<desrt> so win.
<larsu> nice
<didrocks> qengho: same issue, all my tabs are desperatly white agains
<didrocks> I hate you btw ;)
<didrocks> hum, I have a bunch of chromium process still running
<didrocks> let me try kill everything
<qengho> didrocks: DesolÃ©!
<qengho> didrocks: Did it complain about locking the profile?
<didrocks> qengho: no, no complain at all
<didrocks> ok, killed everything
<didrocks> and fine then
 * qengho boggles.
<didrocks> so, even quitting chromium, I have a lot of process left
<didrocks> I think that's what interfere between chromium version
<desrt> super win.  they're abandoning their internal abstraction and switching to straight-up gsettings
<desrt> devhelp style
<didrocks> qengho: yeah, I clearly have one process hitting the CPU like crazy
<didrocks> and not wanted to die once I'm closing chromium
<qengho> didrocks: What does it look like in ps?
<didrocks> qengho: before closing chromium: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6515326/
<didrocks> qengho: and the hanging ones after closing chromium: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6515331/
<seb128> desrt, larsu: I was waiting for you to say "because dconf doesn't abort on missing schemas" :p
<larsu> haha
<seb128> half joking
<seb128> I'm sure some people do it this way because of that
<larsu> I know. That makes it so funny!
<desrt> seb128: actually, ibus is the only thing on earth that uses dconf this way
<desrt> it's truly exceptional
<desrt> the only other thing that comes close is gdm, but and it does in order to change the behaviour of _other_ programs that it runs under itself (ie: the login screen session)
<qengho> didrocks: Do you mind running Cr in a terminal without and with  --disable-extensions  to see if there's a difference?
<didrocks> qengho: sure
<didrocks> qengho: yep, it's an extension apparently, it will be quick, I have 5 and 4 of them are google ones :)
<qengho> didrocks: if it's sync, it could be  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1225215
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1225215 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium doesn't shut down. Next run gets "Your profile could not be opened"." [Undecided,In progress]
<didrocks> qengho: yeah, I didn't get that profile though
<didrocks> qengho: hum, all extensions disabled, still hanging
<didrocks> qengho: is this option doing anything else?
<qengho> Oh, well that's confusing.
<qengho> didrocks: Well, it doesn't "disable" them so much as hide the index of them so they don't appear to be installed. So it's not quite the same thing.
<qengho> didrocks: I'll get back to you with some ideas and questions. Thank you very much.
<didrocks> qengho: oh, really, it seemed to be a little bit more involved seeing how long it was taking :)
<didrocks> qengho: thanks!
<didrocks> qengho: if that can help, the warning I'm getting: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6515393/
<qengho> Thanks, d. None of those look unusual to me.
<didrocks> ok
<Mirv> seb128: tag qt5.2 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=qt5.2
<Mirv> seb128: qt 5.2 is supposed to land when it's released, that list is empty and we have a image with Qt 5.2 PPA enabled that gives same autopilot results at Qt 5.0.2
<Mirv> larsu: ^ the tag
<larsu> Mirv: thanks I'll add it
<seb128> Laney, did you see any visible different with the antialiasing on? I've a graph that's not smooth but it doesn't look different with it
<Laney> yes
<Laney> it looks way different to me ...
<Laney> sec
<seb128> Laney, http://ubuntuone.com/6mCyngMtaJji3Hn8GNKdOb is the result here
<seb128> but that graph has lot of things to smooth
<seb128> just the 2 glitches in the first segment
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/2bEGsM1Y6hPS0DhB59BYTj
<seb128> ok, it's better indeed, you also have that "width doesn't seem constant" issue, just before the flat segment
<Laney> yep
<Laney> the canvas implementation doesn't seem the best
<Laney> should see what it's like with 5.2
<seb128> yeah, let's not spend too much time on a graph though
<seb128> that's a pretty minor thing
<Laney> well we're using it fine
<Laney> nothing we can do to fix that afaik
<seb128> the colors look weird as well
<seb128> I wonder if I should put more steps in the gradient
<seb128> I just did green->yellow->red
<Laney> I was wondering if maybe it shouldn't be linear or something
<seb128> green->red was not looking nice, but that yellow is a bit "fluo"
<Laney> don't know about that kind of thing though
<seb128> yeah, me neither
<seb128> fluo->neon
<seb128> or whatever it's called in english :p
<Laney> fluorescent
<Laney> or luminous
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> we say "fluo" as the common/short version of fluorescent
<seb128> you guys don't do that?
<Laney> nope
<seb128> k
<seb128> tkamppeter, just saw your poppler bugfix upload, is that patch coming from upstream/upstreamed? (there is no such reference on the bugs you listed nor in the upload)
<tkamppeter> seb128, no, but it is on my TODO list for submitting upstream. I have found this bug and created the fix by myself, after seeing https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=768811 and the related distro patch for cups-filters (which I did not upstreamize as the real bug is in Poppler).
<ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 768811 in cups-filters "Landscape Printing not working" [Unspecified,Closed: errata]
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, thanks. It's nice to upstream first, so you can have the bug reference in the patch upload, but as long as it's upstreamed things are fine I guess
<seb128> Sweetshark, if we do another libreoffice upload to saucy, can we get http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d77483f0ab1a7f97ec41adfac66d98696adeef70&h=libreoffice-4-1 included (I guess that's in 4.2 for trusty already?)
<Sweetshark> seb128: sure.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<robert_ancell> desrt, are you a GNOME foundation member?
<desrt> yes
<robert_ancell> desrt, is https://www.gnome.org/foundation/membership/ not up to date then?
<robert_ancell> it seems a lot more sparse than I'd expect
<desrt> ya... something is wrong with that page
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, are you around yet?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sure am
<rickspencer3> hey robert_ancell
<rickspencer3> I did a dist-upgrade this afternoon, and now that computer won't get to LightDM
<rickspencer3> sadly, it's back in my co-working space
<rickspencer3> I had to come home to get back online
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, this is trusty, obviously :)
<rickspencer3> also, hi, how are you (and other things a person might say to another person ; ) )
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I had a problem this morning where i couldn't type into the greeter but an upgrade brought in X and that fixed it
<robert_ancell> I'm fully dist-upgraded now and using trusty - do you have any logs?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, like I say, I don't have access to that 'puter atm
<robert_ancell> :(
<rickspencer3> it could be x that won't start
<rickspencer3> hybrid graphics :/
<seb128> little chance to debug that without access to the box...
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, oh, do you have a nvidia card in it?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yeah
<seb128> robert_ancell, weird, we didn't have any significant xorg changes recently
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I can't boot with the trusty kernel, nouveau locks up the kernel for me (I think)
<robert_ancell> I'm running the saucy kernel by choosing it at grub
<rickspencer3> hmmm, not sure I have pre-trusty kernel on it
<rickspencer3> I tried the previous kernel but that didn't work either
<robert_ancell> I'm running 3.11.0-13-generic
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ok, I'll poke at it in the morning
<seb128> can you got to a vt?
<rickspencer3> seb128, no
<seb128> e.g ctrl-alt-f1
<rickspencer3> no vt
<rickspencer3> nada
<robert_ancell> me neither
<rickspencer3> totally screwed
<seb128> ok, so not an xorg issue
<seb128> seems like the kernel issue robert_ancell is describing
<robert_ancell> though I saw some nouveau errors messages on a text console at one time
<seb128> go nvidia :/
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, if you don't know what it is off hand, I think I;ll just have to bring my other laptop to my co-working space tomorrow
<seb128> thanks guys, you convinced me to stay on intel for my next config ;-)
<rickspencer3> and an ethernet cable
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, this is hybrid graphics
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I always regret not going pure intel
<rickspencer3> a total pita
<robert_ancell> so is mine
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, still online btw? :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm running unity-control-center here
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, seems so ... "still" is rather "back", just back from dinner
<seb128> robert_ancell, how does it feel? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, pretty much like before, but *much* easier to hack on
<seb128> I meant to look at u-s-d and u-c-c this week
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I was going to push all the packages into a PPA then do a call for testing
<seb128> do you still have work you want to get done on those?
<robert_ancell> and review
<seb128> or do you feel like we are getting ready for review etc?
<seb128> cool
<seb128> I'm going to have a look
<robert_ancell> there's some small details on u-c-c, but I don't know if we need to bother / solve them right now
<seb128> tell me
<robert_ancell> I haven't tried running u-s-d yet, but will do that after u-c-c
 * seb128 is scared of all the crazyness robert_ancell is doing
<robert_ancell> oh, chill out! :)
<seb128> that seems backward!
<seb128> you should be able to run g-c-c on top of u-s-d
<seb128> well at least while the version are in sync, which is the case atm
<robert_ancell> but wont be for long
<seb128> well, it is atm :p
<robert_ancell> 1. two of the icons have changed since we had to rename them and the gnome theme has the different names - not sure if we should copy the icons from the gnome theme over the control-center ones to make them change back
<seb128> and that would be a good testcase to make sure you didn't do incompatible changes to dbus or gsettings keys
<robert_ancell> 2. Might want some packaging magic to uninstall libgnome-control-center now it doesn't exist
<seb128> there is no such magic
<seb128> you advocate for Unity users have g-c-c leftover and now you want to clean the small lib in the other direction? ;-)
<robert_ancell> 3. Some of the package names for custom panels refer to gnome but they only work in unity now (since they use libunity-control-center)
<seb128> you renamed the lib?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, the new g-c-c should probably conflict on it since anything compiled against it wont show in the new g-c-c or u-c-c
<seb128> I guess it makes sense... that's not going to be a big transition
<robert_ancell> I think I've got all the cases but there could be third party ones or something I've missed
<seb128> seems like a pointless change
<robert_ancell> seb128, what is?
<seb128> renaming the lib
<seb128> but at the same time it's not like lot of third party softwares are using it
<robert_ancell> but it doesn't work with the new g-c-c, it would be very unclear to give it the old name
<robert_ancell> exactly
<seb128> those who are can probably rebuild for the new LTS
<robert_ancell> we can do this properly since there's not a lot of consumers
<seb128> ok, fair enough
<seb128> so
<robert_ancell> I haven't changed the function calls so it's trivial to recompile (though I was wondering if we should change any prefixes)
<seb128> 1. I don't understand the issue enough, do you have a bug report? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, It hasn't been released so no bug report
<seb128> it feels like we should just ship those icons in our theme or in u-c-c
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
<seb128> 2. just make g-c-c conflicts on the lib
<seb128> the apt resolver should be smart enough, assuming there is no user of the lib left
<robert_ancell> seb128, but basically, the sound panel uses an icon installed in /usr/share/icons, we have to rename ours since it would conflict with the one in g-c-c. But the icon in the u-c-c/g-c-c package never gets used because there's a different icon in the gnome theme package.
<seb128> well, if it's not used just delete it from u-c-c
<robert_ancell> seb128, so we should put the used icon into the u-c-c source
<robert_ancell> seb128, it should probably provide an icon by default since otherwise it has no icon if you uninstall the theme
<seb128> it's u-c-c
<seb128> it can depends on our theme
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure, then we can delete all the icons
<seb128> Unity is a desktop, not a toolbox
<seb128> (copy GNOME speech ;-)
<robert_ancell> works for me
<robert_ancell> I'll just add a dependency on the theme
<seb128> +1
<robert_ancell> though the used icons are in the gnome theme, so it's a bit weird
<robert_ancell> i.e. humanity doesn't override any of these icons afaict
<robert_ancell> meh, it's a minor point. Any result which shows the same icons as today will do
<seb128> well, the other option is to patch gnome-icon-theme to add them there and patch it out of g-c-c and u-c-c
<seb128> but that's more work
<robert_ancell> I'll just copy them from gnome-icon-theme to u-c-c
<seb128> ok, as long as there is no file conflict
<robert_ancell> there wont be
<seb128> cool
<seb128> 3. is a non issue, let's just do a small transition/rename those panels
<seb128> there is like 4 of those
<robert_ancell> 4. activity-log-manager is in some sort of crash loop, not sure if that's due to u-c-c or it's just broken in trusty
<seb128> it's not broken in trusty
<robert_ancell> and 5. activity-log-manager and deja-dup we need to talk to upstream - are their panels only working in unity? Then we should get them to take the patches so they compile against libunity-control-center instead
<seb128> you might hit a bug which doesn't have to do with the renaming though
<robert_ancell> yeah
<robert_ancell> I think I might just do the PPA now and fix that one later
<seb128> alm, we are sort of upstream
<robert_ancell> I figured we're close enough to upstream for both
<seb128> (well Seif is, but I'm not sure he's still interested in it, we co-maintain it)
<seb128> deja-dup -> mterry (he's in London this week so offline at this time)
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok
<seb128> did you try GTK 3.10?
<robert_ancell> oh there was 6. Is there any way to get update manager to do an apt-get autoremove or similar so g-c-c is uninstalled on GUI dist-upgrades?
<robert_ancell> no
<seb128> (just pondering if we should mix testing/transition in the desktop ppa)
<robert_ancell> seb128, do you think I should just dump all this into the main PPA?
<seb128> I'm testing GTK 3.10 in the main ppa
<seb128> maybe let's use another one for the first round
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> or let me tomorrow to test your stuff
<seb128> I plan to try to move GTK to trusty this week
<robert_ancell> I feel it's at the point where I think we should definitely go ahead. I know you and Laney are a bit nervous about the forking
<seb128> then we can use the ppa for u-s-d u-c-c next week
<robert_ancell> It's all wins for us and the GNOME people
<seb128> I'm not nervous about forking
<seb128> I'm nervous about you doing it :p
<robert_ancell> vote of confidence hah!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> joke aside, the current approach seems fine
<seb128> I was nervous about renaming keys
<seb128> you didn't do that right?
<robert_ancell> It's like that in my current branch, but I'm going to look at reverting that
<seb128> renaming the keys?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> how did you migrate config?
<robert_ancell> I hadn't got to that yet
<robert_ancell> I was still testing
<seb128> ok, so you just reset config for u-s-d?
<robert_ancell> we could migrate config, it's not impossible
<seb128> "reset"
<seb128> start fresh rather
<seb128> no, it's not, but that's getting tricky
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, but this was just so I could co-install them and test
<seb128> and I would prefer to avoid dealing with migration in a LTS cycle
<seb128> because we might just learn from those from people doing LTS upgrades
<seb128> we don't want to make the experience suck for those
<robert_ancell> seb128, note that you can't run the vanilla g-c-c because we removed some keys from g-s-d - so we did the same thing I'm worried about to GNOME :)
<seb128> we did?
<seb128> we did revert commits that include new keys?
<robert_ancell> for the input methods - we reverted to the old method but didn't leave the new keys in the schema
<seb128> oh, that's a bug more than a feature
<seb128> but yeah, I'm sure that's going to happen
<seb128> I just don't want to learn about upgrade issue by hitting LTS users
<robert_ancell> that's where it gets easier if we can rename the schemas, but I'll try and tackle that later if we have time
<seb128> we can do the schemas rename next cycle
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> right, let's see
<seb128> land the first round and iterate
<robert_ancell> ai
<seb128> if we get confident about the migration we can discuss it
<seb128> otherwise next cycle is fine
<robert_ancell> seb128, hmm, I can't add PPAs to ~ubuntu-desktop anymore?
<seb128> so let's split the g-c-c schemas in a new binary shared between both as a first step
<robert_ancell> yep
<robert_ancell> And there's a spelling mistake in the team description
<robert_ancell> "since it gives you commit right to bzr."
<seb128> robert_ancell, I promoted you back to admin, have fun
<robert_ancell> hah! you will regret it ;)
<seb128> let's see :p
<robert_ancell> oh, I was trying to think of a good name for the PPA
<robert_ancell> that wasn't going to be taken the wrong way politically
<seb128> uss?
<robert_ancell> I'm going to try and be careful so we don't get bad press when we do this
<seb128> or ucc
<robert_ancell> and that includes u-s-d as well? I guess it implies it
<seb128> yes
<seb128> or just "settings"
<robert_ancell> I called all the branches unity-control-center so I'll stick with that
<robert_ancell> seb128, you up much longer?
<robert_ancell> I wanted to avoid settings so it wasn't confused with the new settings work
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm about to go back home, so I should be offline for like 15 min, then I'm probably going to do some for hacking for another hour
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, where are you now?
<seb128> I went outside for dinner and brought the laptop with me
<robert_ancell> Oh, I had a 7 - should we call it unity-control-center 1.0 or 3.6.3? I think 1.0 would be clearer
<seb128> 7?
<seb128> oh
<robert_ancell> yeah, we could do 7 too
<seb128> lol
<robert_ancell> It's just odd to stick on an obscure 3.6.3 forever
<seb128> use our naming scheme?
<seb128> 13.12
<seb128> or 14.04.0
<robert_ancell> but we might never update it for 14.10
<seb128> ok, 1.0 it is then
<seb128> we should put it under daily landing
<seb128> so it's going to be 1.0+daily<something>
<seb128> which seems fine
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> oh yay. We can drop the -0ubuntu1
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, dropping offline
<robert_ancell> bye
<seb128> back in 15 minutes or so if you have other questions
<seb128> robert_ancell, where is your u-s-d work? I don't see any "settings" on https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/
<robert_ancell> seb128, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/unity
<seb128> thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128, bug 1257505
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1257505 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Create Unity Control Center so can remain on old GNOME Control Center version" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257505
<robert_ancell> trying to get the PPA priority bumped, all the packages are there
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, I noticed you made a change to g-c-c since I branched - can you push that into lp:unity-control-center?
<robert_ancell> the 48 change
<seb128> robert_ancell, doesn't seem like those builds are a priority right? ;-)
<robert_ancell> all the ~ubuntu-desktop stuff is a priority
<seb128> robert_ancell, sure, can push there
<seb128> hum
<seb128> robert_ancell, I branched lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/unity and the changelog has "gnome-settings-daemon (3.8.5-0ubuntu11.1) saucy; urgency=low"
<seb128> is that normal?
<seb128> rules has the binary named g-s-d
<seb128> things looks wrong
<robert_ancell> yeah, I didn't update the changelog
<robert_ancell> bzr log should show a bunch of changes though
<seb128> ups
<seb128> control
<seb128> right
<seb128> but you didn't rename the binaries?
<robert_ancell> not yet
<seb128> I though you wanted to make those co-installable?
<seb128> oh, ok
<seb128> what did you change then?
<seb128> just having an import/full source doing the same thing as current trusty is doing?
<robert_ancell> yes, that looks right
 * robert_ancell tries to find the branch where I did the renaming
<seb128> what do you want me to review/test?
<robert_ancell> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/rename-to-unity
<robert_ancell> not u-s-d
<robert_ancell> but u-c-c yes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, oh, shrug, renaming the binary means patching apps that call g-c-c :/ (I guess that's why you added indicators to your bug)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yep, but I think I've got them all
<seb128> I doubt that
<robert_ancell> I was able to remove g-c-c from my system and reverse-depends seems happy
<seb128> robert_ancell, like eog calls g-c-c
<robert_ancell> set as background?
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes, or cairo dock calls it
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://codesearch.debian.net/search?prev=0.82.138&q=gnome-control-center+&skip=182
<robert_ancell> well, cairo dock is not necessarily wrong, it's only apps that are specifically in unity that we need to fix
<seb128> well, eog is not specific to unity
<seb128> but we don't want it to stop working under unity
<seb128> who knows what apps out there do the same
<robert_ancell> yes, eog should be patches
<seb128> that debian codesearch has other stuff
<seb128> gnome-color-manager
<seb128> gthumb
<seb128> gnome-documents? (do we want gnome apps to work under unity?)
<seb128> screenlets
<seb128> that's about it
<robert_ancell> fixable
<seb128> which is still an ok list, but it feels like we are creating issues for third parties, scripts, etc
<robert_ancell> well, it's a real issue. We can't just pretend it doesn't exist
<seb128> which is not the end of the world but annoying
<seb128> which do we undermine the experience for our main desktop/users for a flavor?
<robert_ancell> I don't think this is going to undermine our main users
<seb128> well, it's going to make apps works better under GNOME remix than Unity
<seb128> if we miss to patch some
<seb128> or if those a third party apps
<robert_ancell> they're pretty easy to find and fix
<seb128> except is that's e.g chrome
<seb128> if*
<robert_ancell> it's just an ? $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP == Unity ? "unity-control-center" : "gnome-control-center"
<seb128> right, if you have access to the source
<seb128> well I guess google is going to fix chrome if needed (I didn't check if they use it, making a potential example)
<robert_ancell> Yeah, they just have to fix it
<seb128> but yeah, I guess that's a limited set and we just need to transition those
<seb128> robert_ancell, u-c-c looks fine from a first build/run, I'm going to play with it more tomorrow
<robert_ancell> cool, thanks
<seb128> calling it a day for today though
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<robert_ancell> bye
<seb128> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-04
<pitti> Good morning
<darkxst> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
<darkxst> yeh good
<darkxst> pitti, could you take alook at Bug 1192372, fixes the gdb integration for glib
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192372 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "glib's gdb auto-load scripts are not loaded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192372
<pitti> darkxst: ah nice, thanks! That looks like it should go into Debian, too, I'll commit it there
<darkxst> pitti, yes, should go into debian
<darkxst> thanks
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks Laney
<didrocks> hey seb128 ;)
<darkxst> hey Laney didrocks seb128
<didrocks> hey darkxst! how are you?
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> davmor2 clearly doesn't get how IRC works :/
<darkxst> didrocks, yeh good, although not much to do around here while we are blocked on gtk 3.10.....
<didrocks> darkxst: well, use those very beautiful days to relax ;)
<Laney> can't you work with the PPA version?
<didrocks> seb128: what happened?
<seb128> didrocks, he finds contentless pings useful/a good thing
<seb128> sorry, reading emails and commenting on IRC :p
<didrocks> seb128: ah, I was puzzled, yeah ;)
<Laney> haha
 * Laney feels a split brain coming on
<darkxst> Laney, we have most of 3.10 queued up on the ppa,
<didrocks> seb128: what you replied before reading the thread? and the "netetiquette?" :)
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> darkxst: oh cool, well it's a-coming
<didrocks> like when you enter a forum, you are supposed to read all threads!
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> darkxst, "most of 3.10", that's not for trusty right?
<seb128> Laney, ^^
<seb128> that makes me not want to update GTK btw
<seb128> I especially don't want that to make people think that it's fine to land all tons of cracks and gtkheaderbar and new UI that don't work for us
<darkxst> seb128, no, not all of it is aimed at trusty
<seb128> not before the LTS
<seb128> darkxst, please give us a list of what you plan to update before starting pushing stuff
<Laney> yeah, I'm sure they won't push stuff that affects Ubuntu :-)
<seb128> Laney, when I see GTK 3.11 on versions I get scared at what is in those ppas :p
<Laney> heh
<Laney> they are pretty crackful
<darkxst> seb128, gnome3-staging trusty pocket is not going into trusty
<Laney> that's what PPAs are for!
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> ooh, webkit/arm64 overnight build looks interesting
<Laney> it failed at some freetype include change instead of an inscrutible arm64 assembler thing
<seb128> it built?
<seb128> nice!
<Laney> could be earlier on in the build than that stuff :P
<seb128> :/
<Laney> don't think so though, was building javascriptcore (the problematic bit) when I left
<Laney> dare to dream
<seb128> the #debian-gnome guys were talking about the freetype stuff earlier this week
<Laney> yeah, there's an upstream patch for it
<seb128> jcristau said he would talk to slangasek about the change
<Laney> seems they changed the include scheme or something
<seb128> seems like pointless
<Laney> not sure why ...
<Laney> wonder how much other stuff got broken by that
<seb128> quite some by the look of things
<seb128> we already saw a few
<seb128> I saw cjwatson mentioning he had to fix stuff the other day, doko as well
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1257505 btw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1257505 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Create Unity Control Center so can remain on old GNOME Control Center version" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> just pointing it for reference, robert_ancell is getting stuff ready for testing in a ppa
<Laney> yeah I saw the conversation last night
<seb128> k
<Laney> what's this business about conflicting on libgnome-control-center?
<darkxst> libgnome-control-center is an ubuntu patch, we can probably drop that from g-c-c one forked
<darkxst> ^once
<seb128> Laney, ^ that
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> but why won't it just go obsolete and get autoremoved?
<seb128> Laney, g-c-c doesn't allow external panels, so the lib would stop providing the feature it claims providin
<Laney> if nothing is using it any more
<darkxst> Laney, it is used by ubuntu panels
<Laney> I assume we'll rebuild stuff to get rid of the dependency
<seb128> right
<seb128> did we suggest having a conflicts?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> iirc we said that autoclean would work
<seb128> but we can add a conflict if it turns out to be needed
<Laney> 03/12 21:09:18 <seb128> 2. just make g-c-c conflicts on the lib
<Laney> 03/12 21:09:35 <seb128> the apt resolver should be smart enough, assuming there is no user of the lib left
<Laney> those two statements seem to contradict each other :p
<Laney> unless you mean apt will be happy to remove it
<Laney> anyway, quite a minor point
<darkxst> g-c-c won't care though, once we drop the patch, it won't link to it
<darkxst> all the panels in upstream g-c-c are staticlly linked now
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, well, I was thinking loud about it, both options should work
<Laney> nod
<seb128> but since the lib is going to stop doing its job we might want to force remove it with a conflicts
<seb128> leftover might confuse people to think it can still be used
<Laney> it won't be able to be installed by anyone new
<Laney> since it won't be in the archive
<seb128> right, I was thinking about upgrades
<Laney> only will be a bit of cruft for existing people
<seb128> but as you said, minor detail
<seb128> right
<seb128> a conflicts would be no cruft for anyone
<Laney> u-m should autoremove it
<seb128> "should"
<seb128> some people use apt to upgrade
<Laney> then they get to use autoremove regularly
<Laney> it's the apt wayâ¢
<darkxst> well they get told by apt to use auto-remove
<Laney> anyways
<Laney> I thought the settings daemon would come first, interesting
<seb128> yeah, me too
<darkxst> seb128, have you look at gnome-desktop?
<seb128> darkxst, no, once step at the time, that one is an annoying one
<seb128> we can't fork the lib
<seb128> we would need 2 versions/builds of all the rdepends, that would be a mess
<darkxst> seb128, yes, and can't revert the display config stuff
<seb128> why not?
<darkxst> it would be a nightmare patch
<seb128> so we need to hold on upgrades I guess...
<darkxst> well that blocks g-s-d/g-c-c upgrades to 3.10
<darkxst> but probably not gnome-shell, which is just blocked on gtk
<seb128> do you have a solution to suggest?
<darkxst> seb128, yes implement the dbus interface in unity or compiz
<seb128> patches are welcome
<seb128> I don't see that happening this cycle from the unity team
<seb128> they are overloaded already and they have other priorities than changing stuff that work
<seb128> I agree it would be nice, I just don't it happening before the LTS/unity8
<seb128> don't see*
<darkxst> seb128, can I cut+past GPL code into unity or is it CLA only?
<seb128> CLA only
<darkxst> right, so a reasonably simple task, becomes not so simple
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> darkxst, we should see what APIs are concerned and archive grep for their users
<seb128> if it turns out to be only g-s-d we can probably include the old functions/sources in u-s-d
<seb128> but GnomeIdleMonitor might be used by other things
<seb128> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=gnome_idle_monitor
<seb128> gnome-session to start :/
<seb128> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=gnome_rr
<seb128> colord
<seb128> gnome-screensaver
<darkxst> idle monitor is fine, I can revert that for unity easy enough
<seb128> what's the issue?
<darkxst> seb128, its just the display config that is a big mess
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst: hey, can you put bug #1238410 on your todolist? (basically making sure we get http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?h=server-1.14-branch&id=6cc5efa68e5fdc301ab9a381bffe88fe5c7865e2 in trusty)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238410 in X.Org X server "Inconsistent cursor visibility with cursor plugin enabled" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238410
<seb128> that's in xserver git 1.14 branch, I guess we are going to get the current version from there even if we don't get 1.15?
<mlankhorst> we'll get it eventually. :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, not "eventually" :p thanks!
<mlankhorst> if it's in the server then we'll probably have to sru the new upstream release anyway to saucy
<seb128> why?
<seb128> well, as long as those fixes are in the LTS I'm happy
<mlankhorst> because it has some other nice fixes too
<seb128> k
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to upstream that telepathy-gabbler g_source_remove error?
<seb128> I can do it now if you want
<pitti> seb128: ah, thank you; sorry, drowning in stuff, need to clean up my firefox tabs/requests
<seb128> mvo, hey, do you plan to upload that aptdaemon fix you did yesterday, or should I just cherrypick it?
<seb128> pitti, no problem, doing that
 * pitti hugs seb128 for chasing bugs
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<seb128> LTS cycles ftw ;-)
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72303
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 72303 in gabble "Invalid g_source_remove use leads to error with new glib (2.39)" [Normal,New]
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> de rien
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks for the cft email!
<pitti> mlankhorst: indeed, I'm about to add the PPA; that's safe for trusty, i. e.  said xorg patch is in trusty?
 * pitti installs -- I miss the "debug today's X.org breakage" fun from 2007!
<pitti> nowdadays it's just "seb128 broke my jabber", which isn't half as much fun!
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<mlankhorst> pitti: yeah and I added a breaks, so it shouldn't even install on saucy :P
<pitti> mlankhorst: ok, rebooting; brb (hopefully :) )
<mvo> seb128: I prepared both the saucy and trusty branches, but there was test failure in my rebuild test, not sure if its just a local issue or not. it looks unreleeated to my change though. and thanks for the hugging yesterday :-D
<pitti> mlankhorst: it's exactly as boring as before, everything seems to work at least initially (unity, dash, video playback, glxgears)
<pitti> mlankhorst: where is the breakage/fun you promised!?
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> mvo, yw ;-)
<seb128> mvo, we miss you there!
<mlankhorst> pitti: erm where did I promise that? :p
<pitti> mlankhorst: *hug*, I wanted to say: nice job!
<seb128> mvo, let me test build here to see if tests are unhappy as well
<pitti> mvo: ooh, does that fix the long-standing test failure?
<seb128> mvo, no, he fixed the most report e.u.c errors, but can't roll the fix out because a test is failing
<mvo> pitti: it fixes a long standing errors.ubuntu.com issue, I have not really looked at the test
<mvo> (yet :)
<pitti> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-adt-aptdaemon/20/ARCH=i386,label=adt/console
<pitti> KeyError: 'defer'
<seb128> http://www.linuxjournal.com/rc2013?page=53
<seb128> that's a "fun" list
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> "poetterings ideas"
<ogra_> awesome
<seb128> yeah :p
<mlankhorst> tons of ubuntu hate
<ogra_> well, but gnome is worse than Mir
<mlankhorst> less popular, though
<davmor2> seb128: it is indeed a fun list, but the big one for me is that Gnome 3 is knida hated more than anything Ubuntu does :D
<seb128> davmor2, don't talk to me, you contextless pinger :p
<ogra_> LOL
<ogra_> why does it feel so much like friday today
<seb128> ogra_, it's december, every day feels like friday
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra_> heh, yeah
<Laney> too much mulled wine
<seb128> hum, mulled wine, helps to fight the cold weather ;-)
<ogra_> ++
<davmor2> seb128: single malt whisky does a better job
<Laney> Not sure how constructive that kind of peanut gallery hate list is
<seb128> Laney, "not at all"...
<seb128> they have some weird sections in that survey
<Laney> davmor2: Not a very classy celebration :/
<Laney> let's just link to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/1000-companies-inspire-britain/10485791/ubuntu-canonical-hi-tech.html instead
<Laney> :-)
<davmor2> Laney: not celebrating other than Ubuntu wasn't top which was what I was expecting
<seb128> Laney, nice title, /me reads
<desrt> ouch
<davmor2> Laney: that is a nice read :)
<desrt> glad to see ubuntu and gnome still agree on one thing: making everyone hate us
<desrt> i have to admit that my vote is with the guy who wrote-in the response for "this question" as the worst thing
 * desrt wonders when people will stop doing this pointless shit
<Laney> when it stops generating clicks
<desrt> seb's fault for putting it on IRC
<desrt> bad seb.  no cookie.
<Laney> tsk, ogra_ shared it on g+
 * ogra_ finds it massively entertaining ... 
 * desrt learns that there is, in fact, a market for this stuff
<mlankhorst> seb128: hm mouse is still invisible with that patch
<seb128> mlankhorst, oh, you can reproduce that bug?
<seb128> mlankhorst, in fact I think it's to apply on top of the 2013-10-22 commits on http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/log/Xext/sync.c?h=server-1.14-branch
<seb128> mlankhorst, is xorg doing point bugfix releases? ;-)
<mlankhorst> seb128: I was testing xorg-server 1.14.4 which has those fixes
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> how do you reproduce the issue?
<mlankhorst> oh wait, maybe not the corner-case patch
<mlankhorst> I'll try cherry picking that one too
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks ... still, how do you reproduce the bug? I never saw it, do you have a special trick?
<mlankhorst> not really, nfs netboot + synergy :P
<mlankhorst> thought it was a feature for having no mouse plugged in
<mlankhorst> never looked closely though
<mlankhorst> seb128: nope, even with the cherry pick...
<seb128> mlankhorst, well, if you have no mouse your issue seems like a different bug
<mlankhorst> "On fresh boots the greeter & desktop may have the cursor visible or may not until mouse is moved."
<seb128> well, having a mouse
<seb128> which you don't have?
<mlankhorst> fine *plugs in dongle*
<mlankhorst> yeah looks like it's invisible until moving ;p
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> ok, well I guess those fixes would still be nice to get in
<seb128> even if they are not enough to fix that specific bug
<mlankhorst> pushed
<mlankhorst> it seems to be deliberate though, mouse is invisible until I move it, and doesn't become visible if I don't have a dongle plugged in
<mlankhorst> which makes synergy harder to use :/
<seb128> mlankhorst, that bug is about the cursor not becoming visible after moving
<mlankhorst> ah
<mlankhorst> seb128: but that's still the case if I only have synergy to control the cursor :P
<seb128> seems a different issue still ;-)
<tkamppeter> seb128, see https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72312 for my final Poppler patch, I have uploaded Poppler a second time for the file of comment #3 in the bug report.
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 72312 in utils "[patch] pdftops: Fixes/improvements for -origpagesizes" [Normal,New]
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey, how are you?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I'm good
<rickspencer3> my laptop with the hybrid graphics, not so much :/
<seb128> still not booting?
 * rickspencer3 tries booting into recovery console
<seb128> did you try to boot an old kernel?
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I booted the oldest kernel on it
<seb128> still the same issue?
<rickspencer3> yes, acts the same
<seb128> which means, hangs at boot before lightdm, no way to go to a vt?
<rickspencer3> the Ubuntu logo with the dots, then a blank screen with a still cursor
<rickspencer3> seb128, correct
<seb128> when did that start? did you play with drivers/bios settings before?
<rickspencer3> seb128, sounds like I am alone in getting this issue though, which is good
<rickspencer3> I was worried you may have other reports of people having problems
<seb128> robert_ancell said he was getting it as well with the current kernels
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, I had no problems until yesterday
<seb128> we don't have that many users running trusty
<seb128> and most of us pick intel hardware
<rickspencer3> I actually picked this because it had complicated graphics
<rickspencer3> to make sure I knew what users experience
<rickspencer3> seb128, so, I booted into recovery mode
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<seb128> tseliot, mlankhorst: ^ do you know if there is a driver/kernel issue with hybris systems on trusty? rickspencer3's box hangs when xorg tries to start, he can't even go to a vt
<mlankhorst> what box?
<seb128> rickspencer3, check for kernel oops errors in dmesg or syslog?
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, hybrid graphics with nvidia
<mlankhorst> what driver
 * ogra_ would ask tseliot ... our nvidia guru 
<mlankhorst> and what card :P
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, don't know
<mlankhorst> well bug the kernel team then :D
<rickspencer3> seb128, is it possible I have a run of the mill packing issue or somehting?
<rickspencer3> should I check dkpg first or something?
<seb128> rickspencer3, well, you can check /var/log/dpkg.log to see what changed in the upgrade before the issue start
<rickspencer3> seb128, oops, I just ran apt-get update
<seb128> that doesn't change anything
<seb128> that log has timestamp and record of all changes
<seb128> it's rotated, not cleaned
<mlankhorst> rickspencer3: anyway try the kernel from saucy
<mlankhorst> I'm guessing it might be a runtime pm issue, recent kernels enabled it :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, can that be turn off from grub with an option?
<mlankhorst> if he uses nouveau probably
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you use the nvidia binary drivers or nouveau?
<rickspencer3> nouveau
<rickspencer3> at least I don't recall installing binary drivers :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, how do you turn it off with nouveau?
<mlankhorst> add nouveau.runpm=0
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, where do I add that?
<mlankhorst> to kernel cmdline
<seb128> in grub
<seb128> you can edit the command line with "e"
<seb128> (iirc, didn't do that for a while)
<rickspencer3> yeah, let me try it
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, where specifically do I add that option?
<mlankhorst> rickspencer3: to the kernel line
<rickspencer3> I presume you mean the line that says linux
<mlankhorst> yeah
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, do I just add it to the end, after $vt_handoff ?
<mlankhorst> anywhere
 * rickspencer3 tries
<mlankhorst> but that's a good place i think
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, ok, no love there
<mlankhorst> thought so, can you run a kernel from saucy?
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, I suppose I could install one
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, though, it worked until yesterday
<seb128> what did you change yesterday?
<rickspencer3> and I tried the oldest kernel on my computer
<seb128> how old is the oldest one?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I did a dist-ugprade
<rickspencer3> seb128, hold on not that old
<seb128> do you regularly clean those?
<rickspencer3> seb128, when I get back to grub menu I can tell you specifically
<seb128> rickspencer3, it might be easier to just install a saucy kernel to see if that fixes it
<seb128> it would have several advantages
<seb128> including nailing down the issue to the kernel
<seb128> giving you also a working system to look at your logs, open a bug report, etc
<seb128> not sure why it started yesterday, robert_ancell seemed to have the same issue on trusty but before then
<rickspencer3> seb128, my oldest kernel is 3.11.0-13
<rickspencer3> seb128, robert_ancel and I had the same issue within lightdm
<rickspencer3> it wouldn't take keyboard input until we activated a menu
<seb128> 3.11.0-13 should be a saucy one I think :/
<rickspencer3> but it fixed for him yesterday
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah
<rickspencer3> I'm going to try to dist-upgrade again
<seb128> mlankhorst, did we get a nouveau update in trusty?
<mlankhorst> nothing
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you opt in for some testing ppa yesterday?
<rickspencer3> seb128, nope
<rickspencer3> seb128, could it be related to having the emulator installed? I recall some users had issues with that
<rickspencer3> though I did not try to uninstall it
<seb128> I doubt it
<ogra_> *when* did you install the emulator ... the early version definitely had libc/i386 issues on amd64 machines
<rickspencer3> ogra_, it was after those issues were solved
<ogra_> that was only around for one or two versions though
<rickspencer3> but, there was some error meesage in my indicators about not having dependencies for it or something
<ogra_> yeah, then you shouldnt have any issues due to it
<rickspencer3> but I igonried it
<seb128> ogra_, the machine seems to lock on xorg start
<ogra_> right, i have that here too ...
<ogra_> seems some multiarch issue, but shouldnt do harm (apart from making update-manager moan)
<rickspencer3> I probably don't have xorg even installed or something :)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, well, that's what I presumed as well, of course
<rickspencer3> but now I'm grasping at straws trying to get the desktop back
<ogra_> (surely something that needs fixing ... but very unlikely related)
<seb128> rickspencer3, can you copy your /var/log/dmesg syslog(.1) Xorg.0(.old) somewhere?
<ogra_> ++
<rickspencer3> looks like I'm getting yet another kernel in this dist-upgrade
<tseliot> seb128: with or without using the nvidia-prime package?
<ogra_> logs ftw
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I could ftp it to my server
<rickspencer3> let me finish this dist-upgrade and then I'll check back in if it still does not boot
<seb128> tseliot, rick dist-upgraded yesterday and got the issue, is that pulled in on upgrade in some way?
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, dpkg.log would be useful as well
<tseliot> seb128: jockey only installs it in precise
<tseliot> so, no
<seb128> tseliot, ok, I doubt it's that, rickspencer3 is apparently using nouveau so no jockey or anything
<seb128> and it's trusty
<ogra_> well, seemingly installed under saucy
<tseliot> oh, it sounds like a work for mlankhorst then ;)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, no I probably installed with precise, I don't even remember
<ogra_> (unless the old kernel was installed manually or some such)
<rickspencer3> like precise development
<ogra_> ah
<rickspencer3> I don't even remember what O was called
<rickspencer3> Ornery?
<tseliot> rickspencer3: oneiric :)
<tseliot> rickspencer3: if you get some logs, I'll see if I can help
<ogra_> whee, working KBD on my phone ... and even with umlauts !
<rickspencer3> anyway, predictably, the dist-upgrade did not help
 * rickspencer3 enables networking, prepares to upload files
<didrocks> ogra_: more importantly than any umlauts, the keyboard is now in azerty for sane languages \o/
<ogra_> lol ...
<rickspencer3> wow
<rickspencer3> "French" and "sane" are two words I don't think I've ever seen together in the same phrase
<seb128> rickspencer3, stop trolling us if you want your laptop to ever boot again :p
<ogra_> haha
<rickspencer3> lol
<didrocks> seb128: that's how we're supposed to talk! :)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey ... looking at e.u.c, did you ever get anywhere with the wpasupplicant issues?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the support ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: I did
<cyphermox> I think I may just be missing the upload to saucy or something, let me look
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks!
<seb128> cyphermox, the e.u.c trusty report suggests your fix there worked, nice job ;-)
<seb128> mvo_, where are the distro template coming from?
<seb128> e.g in those errors
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/aptsources/distro.py", line 89, in get_sources
<seb128>     (self.id, self.codename))
<seb128> aptsources.distro.NoDistroTemplateException: Error: could not find a distribution template for Ubuntu/trusty
<seb128> that seems a frequent issue in add-apt-repository
<seb128> python-apt-common: /usr/share/python-apt/templates/Ubuntu.info ?
<mvo_> seb128: yes, from python-apt
<seb128> mvo_, haha, ok, those people have the saucy python-apt-common while on trusty
<seb128> not sure how that happens :/
<didrocks> Mirv: once you are aroud, you probably want to answer on the ubuntu-devel ML (as expressed in the hangout and other discussions, I'm too in favor of not bumping the soname and rebuild everything in one shot, knowing how many packages we have, that seems like a saner way to deal with it)
<didrocks> seb128: can it be mint?
<seb128> didrocks, no, some are mint, but most are 14.04 proper
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> didrocks, e.g https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/7efa6264-5b43-11e3-88f9-e4115b0f8a4a
<didrocks> just a very wild guess :)
<seb128> python-apt-common 0.8.9.1ubuntu1
<seb128> didrocks, look at https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/6c2010c50c6aa52ce59374e24c9780acd0505c09
<didrocks> ok, so they changed it
<seb128> so mint has the issue, but I don't care much about them
<seb128> mvo_, I'm just going to make the trusty software-properties depends on python-apt-common (>= 0.9)
<mlankhorst> rickspencer3: fwiw my nvd9 seems to lock up too
<mlankhorst> so maybe kernel broke somewhere
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, sounds like it's needed, maybe they did partial upgrades as you do sometimes :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, can you get enough info to open a bug report?
<seb128> didrocks, right...
<mlankhorst> no idea what he has
<mlankhorst> I'm running something crazy unstable anyway, 3.13rc2 + merging drm-nouveau
<didrocks> ok, I'm late for running, time for exercising!
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> desrt, hey, do you have time to help with a telepathy test failing with glib 2.39?
<desrt> sure
<seb128> desrt, do you prefer here or #gtk+?
<desrt> here is fine
<seb128> desrt, telepathy-glib testsuite started failing one test,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6520095/
<seb128> desrt, xclaesse tested reverting https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=4e9e7d0cba53a711bd650e9a5e28452b93f0d849 and that fixes it
<seb128> desrt, not sure if the issue is on glib or telepathy's side but I would appreciate if you could have a look
<seb128> desrt, just try to make check telepathy-glib with glib 2.39 to reproduce
<hallyn> hi - my dash suddenly stops giving me any results.  is there some cache that might be corrupt that i can clean out?
<seb128> hallyn, hey, try asking mhr3 on #ubuntu-unity
<hallyn> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<xclaesse> desrt, FYI the telepathy-glib code is there: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-glib/tree/telepathy-glib/file-transfer-channel.c#n275
<desrt> i am able to reproduce locally
<xclaesse> basically it splice a GFileInputStream into a GSocketConnection's outputstream
<xclaesse> or vice-versa, didn't check if it's the receiving file test or sending file test
<desrt> will look into it soon
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<Sweetshark> seb128: sooo, bug 1207057 is hanging in verification-needed as I dont have a native precise install with intel drivers. Would it be enough to take https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-advantage/+bug/1176923/comments/13 as verification?
<ubot2> Sweetshark: Error: launchpad bug 1176923 not found
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1207057 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "presentation causes system to hang" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207057
<seb128> Sweetshark, yes, it's also enough to state that no regression were found even if the fix isn't fully working
<Sweetshark> seb128: which is what I did in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1207057/comments/11 ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1207057 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "presentation causes system to hang" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<seb128> Sweetshark, just change it to verification-done then ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: done, thx
<seb128> Sweetshark, thank you
<sil2100> Hey, anyone else having problems adding new jabber accounts in the online accounts desktop settings?
<seb128> sil2100, works fine for me (just added my jabber.org account in a guest session)
<seb128> sil2100, what issue do you have?
<sil2100> seb128: thanks for checking, I noticed that many things don't work well on my system right now... but when I try to add an account, I'm being asked to give the username and password, but I cannot proceed beyond that
<sil2100> Nothing happens when I confirm the data
<seb128> weird
<seb128> no error on the command line if you run it there?
<seb128> no apport file?
<sil2100> No apport file, but let me check the cmd output then
<sil2100> seb128: no console output, nothing - I'm pressing Ready and nothing happens, no reaction ;/
<sil2100> seb128: the app is responsive, just that the button and pressing enter doesn't seem to do anything
<seb128> sil2100, dunno, check with kenvandine or mardy I guess
<kenvandine> sil2100, look in syslog
<sil2100> kenvandine: nothing as well...
<xclaesse> seb128, FYI, empathy preference dialog also looks ugly with gtk master
<xclaesse> taking the full screen width
<seb128> xclaesse, some fixes landed in gtk
<xclaesse> upgraded gtk 5min ago
<xclaesse> still broken
<seb128> xclaesse, 3.10 has https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-10&id=2436627eb4644234a9e577538ec334d224e3d2be
<seb128> xclaesse, e.g it's fine in 3.10 now, master needs apps to be fixed I think
<xclaesse> ah
<seb128> xclaesse, e.g https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=b53b5578f351a26e9ed7898da71624c329f5a8b1
<seb128> xclaesse, you probably need to set that property if you have a custom dialog
<desrt> xclaesse: something is weird with telepathy-glib's build system
<desrt> one change to a .c file should not cause so much rebuilding...
<xclaesse> desrt, noticed that as well
<xclaesse> if you have autotools super power, feel free to fix it :)
<xclaesse> desrt, actually, does it really build lots of things? it seems to "just" relink all tests
<xclaesse> and we have tons of them
<desrt> indeed it seems you are correct
<xclaesse> I think in glib make in ran in tests/ only when doing "make check"
<xclaesse> which really makes sense
<desrt> so pretty sure this is a telepathy-glib bug
<desrt> ya... really quite sure, in fact
<desrt> here's the issue
<desrt> in the event of success, splice_stream_ready_cb() does nothing except to call g_io_stream_close_async with stream_close_cb as the handler.  that function does nothing (in terms of async ops)
<desrt> however, in the failure case, you call operation_failed()
<desrt> which calls g_simple_async_result_complete_in_idle() on self->priv->result
<desrt> ie: why are you reporting an async result in one case but not the other?
<desrt> the problem with the testcase is caused by another bug: when you dispatch the successful case of provide_file() you don't clear out self->priv->result when you're done
<desrt> ie: you just say g_simple_async_result_complete_in_idle (self->priv->result); and return without dropping your ref on the result
<desrt> which is a leak as well
<desrt> if i fix those two issues then the test is passing again
<desrt> i'll do up a patch
<seb128> desrt, thanks!
<seb128> xclaesse, ^^ in case you didn't follow the channel
<xclaesse> desrt, cool thanks :)
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, could you have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-mission-control-5/+bug/1257816? (not sure to understand apparmor there, shouldn't the current profile already give acces to the location listed)?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1257816 in telepathy-mission-control-5 (Ubuntu) "the apparmor profile should allow access to avatars datas" [Low,New]
<desrt> xclaesse, seb128: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/59010/38617520
<xclaesse> desrt, there is indeed something wrong, I agree
<xclaesse> desrt, I think there are even a lot more operation_failed()to remove
<desrt> i do find it a bit alarming that the behaviour changed, though...
<desrt> it might be interesting to investigate why that is, but this testcase is failing to do so... it only gets caught on these other snags :/
<jdstrand> seb128: hey, responded in the bug
<xclaesse> desrt, everything that happens in/after start_transfer() should not call operation_failed()
<xclaesse> the operation is done when we gave the file to send to the CM
<desrt> xclaesse: you're more familiar with the code than me, so i'd be more comfortable with you making any required additional changes
<xclaesse> the actual streaming is not part of the operation
<xclaesse> that's how I understand the code
 * xclaesse moves discussion to #telepathy
<xclaesse> desrt, but still, if we hit that, it is because the splice fails
<xclaesse> desrt, your patch does not fix that, does it?
<desrt> no
<desrt> as i said -- it would be interesting to find a testcase that actually manages to discover why glib's behaviour changed here, and if it's valid or not
<xclaesse> with that patch it will just silently print DEBUG ("splice operation failed: %s", error->message);
<Sweetshark> seb128: around for a quick chat on the pending raring SRU?
<seb128> jdstrand, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, yes
<Sweetshark> ^^ note the ping v 2.0 format
<seb128> desrt, xclaesse: that patch is not working for me
<Laney> pimp my ping
<desrt> seb128: 'make check' passes here (in jhbuild)
<seb128> desrt, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6520671/
<desrt> more bugs!!!
<xclaesse> desrt, I think it is racy
<desrt> i assume self->priv->stream has already been cleared by this point
<xclaesse> the unit test does not wait for the splice to actually happen
<desrt> because obviously 'output' is legit
<seb128> desrt, xclaesse: worked on a second try
<desrt> xclaesse: your use of gmainloop here is super-sketchy too
<xclaesse> the test exit when the splice operation starts
<desrt> you should rather use while(wait)g_main_context_ieration();
<xclaesse> then it doesn't wait for it to finish
<desrt> although i guess since this is async and not threaded, this race does not really exist in this case
<seb128> got it fail only once, I guess I got unlucky on first try
<xclaesse> I'm surprised we have no test that actually to a complete file transfer
<xclaesse> desrt, seb128: did you open a tp-glib bug already?
<desrt> xclaesse: no.
<seb128> xclaesse, desrt: I can do that
<xclaesse> I don't know if glib has a bug, but that tp-glib code is clearly wrong
<xclaesse> seb128, ok thanks, please do :)
<seb128> xclaesse, desrt: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72319
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 72319 in tp-glib "test-file-transfer-channel fails with glib 2.39" [Normal,New]
<Sweetshark> seb128: so SRUs are now precise->verified, raring->dropped, saucy->verified. queue clean.
<seb128> \o/
<xclaesse> desrt, I don't think glib is to blame, our code is completely broken by design... :(
<xclaesse> it was not failing by chance because the unit test leave before the splice operation has a chance to return the error
<xclaesse> but now splice seems faster to report error and it catch us
<seb128> jdstrand, those lines seem to work, should I just upload the change or did you want to do it?
<jdstrand> seb128: if you want to upload it, that's fine. I suggest adding them under:
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/.mc_connections rw,
<seb128> jdstrand, ok, doing that, thanks
<seb128> jdstrand, I've a bug fix to upload so I can as well do both changes
<jdstrand> cool, thanks! :)
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> happyaron, hey, how is the fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1221593 going?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1221593 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-ui-gtk3 crashed with SIGABRT in _g_log_abort()" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/fef869f3270e559cb31eba70138d662add193781 ... does it look like an Ubuntu bug to you or a bug in an extension? it's a file in ~/.mozilla/firefox/... which calls hunspell
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, hey btw ;-)
<sarnold> I love the Y axis ranging from 0.00 to 0.00 with the steps between clearly labeled :)
<seb128> yeah...
<robert_ancell> mterry, we need someone else to approve lightdm patches in your timezone.. Also, feel free to make releases if you need them
<mterry> robert_ancell, it wasn't *that* urgent
<mterry> robert_ancell, I know, London is even worse than normal
<robert_ancell> ah, that's right
<mterry> robert_ancell, stupid maguro always screwing things up
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> Stupid VTs always screwing things up
<ali1234> what is the upstream source for indicator-sound-gtk2?
<kenvandine> ali1234, https://launchpad.net/indicator-sound
<kenvandine> ali1234, i don't think the current trunk still builds for gtk2
<kenvandine> there should be a maintenance branch for that
<ali1234> it doesn't
<ali1234> and the maintenance branch doesn't work, assuming it exists
<ali1234> because the maintenance branch is really just "lol, here's the old version from raring, dunno if it works, lol"
<ali1234> the reason it doesn't work is because -gtk2 and -gtk3 both use the same dbus backend, and changes in the dbus api weren't backported to the -gtk2 branch
<kenvandine> ali1234, right, that is just for SRUs
<kenvandine> ali1234, yeah, i think you would need dbusmenu and libindicator from raring as well
<kenvandine> to build them
<kenvandine> probably not possible with what's in trusty
<ali1234> it's really odd because somebody went to the trouble of creating a whole new source package and uploaded it to saucy
<kenvandine> interesting
<ali1234> but apparently they went to all that effort and ten didn't even test if it actually works
<kenvandine> i doubt it could work
<ali1234> it doesn't, that's what i'm trying to tell you.....
<ali1234> it hasn't worked for months
<kenvandine> what needs it?
<ali1234> there's is a monster 100 comment bug report for xubuntu, because this indicator is broken
<ali1234> lubuntu also uses it
<kenvandine> nothing in saucy should need it
<ali1234> also ubuntu studio
<kenvandine> so for something like that, you'd need the whole indicator stack built from the old sources
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> we know
<kenvandine> libindicator, dbusmenu and not sure what else
<kenvandine> ok
<ali1234> we were going to ship -gtk3 indicator support in xubuntu saucy
<kenvandine> so you need new sources for all those
<ali1234> but that got broken by abi changes
<ali1234> so it got delayed until trusty
<kenvandine> bummer
<ali1234> api changes in the indicators of course
<ali1234> anyway, i rather doubt the whole stack needs to be downgraded
<ali1234> it worked in raring
<ali1234> the reason it's broken is because the dbus api has changed a tiny bit
<ali1234> but i need to find the upstream source so i can see what actually changed
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-05
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> darkxst: how can I verify bug 1192372? when I do e. g. "gdb gedit" it doesn't seem to autoload anything
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192372 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "glib's gdb auto-load scripts are not loaded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192372
<darkxst> pitti, you need to 'set debug auto-load' to see the auto-load logging
<darkxst> pitti, or 'info auto-load python-scripts' will show the loaded scripts
<darkxst> pitti, also they don't get loaded until after you run the program
<pitti> darkxst: thanks
<sil2100> Wellark: hello! Could you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~pete-woods/hud/keywords-test-fail/+merge/197809 once you're around?
<sil2100> Wellark: it's a fix for a FTBFS issue that's blocking hud release from migrating from proposed
<ogra_> sil2100, oh we have a fix already ?
<sil2100> ogra_: yes, it seems there's a branch for it but needs to be rewieved still
<sil2100> Pete made a fix from what I see
<ogra_> sil2100, well, ted is at the sprint
<ogra_> so it should be possible to easily get a review in our TZ
<ogra_> speaking of the devil
<ogra_> hey tedg
<tedg> Good morning ogra_
<ogra_> tedg, we have a HUD FTBFS ... and a fix for it, but someone needs to review ... its a blocker for touch images atm ...
<ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~pete-woods/hud/keywords-test-fail/+merge/197809
<sil2100> tedg: hello! :) As ogra_ mentioned ^
<ogra_> (seems fairly simple)
<tedg> ogra_, sil2100, It seems pete-woods asked for Wellark to review it.  He just got in.
<ogra_> ah, cool
<ogra_> tedg, how about you guys all stay in our timezone after the sprint ... makes everything so much quicker :)
<didrocks> +1
<tedg> ogra_, Hah, everyone involved here is in your timezone normally :-)
<tedg> Well, except Wellark, he's earlier.
<Laney> gooooooooood morninnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<Wellark> sil2100: done.
<tedg> didrocks, What's the syntax for new symbols?  "replaceme" or "replace_me"
<sil2100> Wellark: thank you!
<didrocks> tedg: 0replaceme: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#I.27m_exposing_a_new_C.2BAC8-C.2B-.2B-_symbols_in_my_library.2C_it_seems_that_some_packaging_changes_are_needed.2BICY-
<tedg> didrocks, Ah, thanks!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> darkxst: hm, with that it installs into /usr/share/gdb/auto-load/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0.3901.0-gdb.py
<darkxst> pitti, right, that is where gdb looks, since libglib in is /lib/
<pitti> darkxst: nevermind, that's fine; thanks!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> webkit/arm64 built ;-)
<ogra_> whee !
<ogra_> so my software center should work soon again ?
<Laney> I don't think the two are related
<Laney> you could help debug if you get the issue
<ogra_> *sniff*
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<seb128> mvo, hey ... so aptdaemon's fix in trusty? do you want to fix the test issue first? are you looking at that?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did you see my ping yesterday?
<seb128> happyaron, hey, same question ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, but no time to look at it just yet :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> trying to get errors cleaned for the lts ;-)
<seb128> Laney vs webkit, new round, let's see how that one goes ;-)
<Laney> muhahaha
<Laney> damn, was hoping to get sagari
<Laney> oh, what happened?
<seb128> Laney, new harfbuzz got synced (new soname)
<Laney> HARFBUZZZZZZZZZZZ
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to rebuild pango
<seb128> Laney, you should get lunch ;-)
<Laney> I am doing
<Laney> was hoping to leave that going while out for lunch
<Laney> will give it back when I return then :P
<seb128> right, I'm going to handle harfbuzz
<seb128> enjoy lunch
<Laney> ta
<seb128> do you think you are going to be back for the settings meeting? ;-)
<Laney> got to cycle to town in the wind + rain, not sure enjoyable will be it
<Laney> isn't that at 14.30?
 * seb128 wonders if we are going to still have one this year :p
<seb128> it's in 1h30
<Laney> no, 15.00
<Laney> definitely will be
<seb128> cool
<Laney> unless the storm gets me
<seb128> enjoy lunch then!
<Laney> tata
<mvo> seb128: uploaded, sorry
<ogra_> mvo, hey, when are you coming back ? ... time to end that holiday :)
<seb128> mvo, danke
<seb128> mvo, hey, when do you come back? it's not the same here without you :/
<seb128> Laney, so, I'm pondering dropping the new harfbuzz from trusty-proposed, let me know when you are back from lunch, want to discuss that
<seb128> Sweetshark, can we get a libreoffice building in trusty? we have some transitions lining up that requires a rebuild from your side...
<Sweetshark> seb128: whats the timeline on the transitions?
<seb128> Sweetshark, new libharfbuzz has been autosynced from Debian today, and it's blocking webkit
<seb128> which is why I just pinged Laney about deleting harfbuzz
<seb128> but that sucks
<mvo> ogra_: heh :)
<mvo> seb128: your welcome
<Sweetshark> sooo, LibreOffice 4.2.0 rc1 is scheduled for 2013-12-16, 4.2 is building in the ppa and IIRC 4.1 would not build as is on trusty.
<Sweetshark> seb128: is that too long of?
<desrt> greetings desktopers
<larsu> greetings
<seb128> desrt, good morning!
<seb128> Sweetshark, we need to discuss it, we have several options
<seb128> - dropping new harfbuzz
<seb128> - keeping stuff in proposed for a while
<seb128> - getting libreoffice to build
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> good
<pitti> desrt: I can haz systemd-shim 6?
<desrt> sure.  i'll cook one up this morning.
 * pitti passes the pepper and salt, thanks!
<desrt> btw... i was thinking
<desrt> how did you notice the bus-flushing problem?
<desrt> it should have worked anyway because of your changes to the timeout...
<pitti> desrt: yes, but I asked bug reporters to give me the shim output during suspend/resume, and saw all this goo; sec
<pitti> desrt: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/156923742/systemd-shim.log
<desrt> pitti: no worries.  just wondering if it was still failing or something :p
<pitti> desrt: scroll to the end
<pitti> desrt: yes, several people say it is still failing; although I can now not see anything wrong in systemd-shim's log, dbus-monitor, or pm-suspend.log :(
<desrt> this bug has been very embarassing.  it's take like what?  3 releases to fix? :)
<desrt> huh?
<desrt> IMPOSSIBLE!!
<pitti> my words exactly! :-)
<pitti> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/158309871/systemd-shim.log is with the fix, and it looks impeccable
<desrt> before i make distcheck i'm gonna make coffee
<pitti> make: *** No rule to make target `coffee'.  Stop.
<pitti> desrt: sorry, doesn't work
<ochosi> pitti: you should really update your buildsystem! ;)
<pitti> ochosi: but it's right! no coffee in the house; "make tea" OTOH works fine :)
<desrt> ochosi: just needs to upgrade his hardware
<ochosi> :D
<Sweetshark> seb128: I will have a look at the 4.1 package in trusty today in the evening to see if its a trivial fix, I can give you a somewhat qualified opinion then ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: k?
<seb128> pitti, hey, can you remind me the env magic you gave me the other time to test software-properties drivers install on my intel box?
<ochosi> btw, i'm looking to find someone who pushes updates to the indicator-stack usually
<ochosi> who would you point me to?
<seb128> Sweetshark, that would be great, thanks
<desrt> pitti: COFFEE is a new intel CPU extension.  Compile-Optimised For Fast Executable... Execution
<ochosi> (specifically we have a bugfix for the gtk2 indicator)
<pitti> seb128: /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/fake-devices-wrapper ubuntu-drivers list
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: (or run any other program, like softwarwe-properties-gtk or lspci, etc.)
<happyaron> seb128: can't get it working, removing the assertion does not work.
<seb128> happyaron, what happens when you remove it?
<seb128> happyaron, did you try to ping the fedora maintainer (since that's a bug in their patch)?
<happyaron> seb128: fail on other parts, because the input method list is empty, the functions calls for input method engine's property will fail.
<happyaron> seb128: no, he has an updated version of the patch, but the change is quite big and can be applied only to ibus 1.5.4.
<seb128> ok
 * seb128 hates python and encodings
<Laney> seb128: what's the problem?
<seb128> Laney, with what? python or harfbuzz?
<Laney> harfbuzz
<Laney> it's not a real transition is it?
<Laney> in code terms
<seb128> Laney, it's a soname change and rdepends include libreoffice
<Laney> I thought it was just a package name change
<seb128> Laney, and 4.1 doesn't build in trusty toolchain and 4.2 is not ready for upload yet
<seb128> Laney, how is that different?
<Laney> because it means there should be zero porting
<seb128> well, it means a no change rebuild from libreoffice
<seb128> which means a libreoffice not ftbfsing
<Laney> that's a shame
<seb128> right
<Laney> highlights why that needs to be kept on top of
<Laney> but yeah, delete it if that's best for now
<seb128> don't tell me
<seb128> read my ping to Sweetshark from half an hour ago
<seb128> with the 3 options
<seb128> he said he would look today if there is an easy for for 4.1
<seb128> the issue is that we said we don't want to spend too much work on fixing 4.1 when we move to 4.2 this month
<seb128> but 4.2 is still alpha and Sweetshark doesn't want to upload those versions to the archive
<seb128> so it's a bit of a sucky situation
<seb128> kenvandine, Laney, tedg, mpt, charles: let's resume settings hangout, who is available this week? (maybe not ted/charles in London)
<seb128> attente, ^
<Laney> ye
<seb128> oh, hangout and Laney
<Laney> muhahaha
<seb128> that's almost as much fun than webkit and Laney
<kenvandine> hey
<Laney> I copy the link to http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/bah.html
<Laney> and then visit that on my phone
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> mpt is on
<seb128> ok, let me start my browser
<kenvandine> seb128, everything froze...
<seb128> kenvandine, you seem fine
<Laney> sec
<Laney> attente: here
<Laney> I tried to get the language name from e.g. "en"
<Laney> but if you ask for it there it gives you "U.S. English"
<Laney> so that solution doesn't work
<Laney> seb128: make him look here!
<mpt> oh bother
<Laney> So it would be language name - country name
<Laney> but yeah ...
<mpt> Is there anything that returns the string "English"?
<Laney> en_otherthings
<Laney> but I don't know how you could do that algorithmically
<mpt> Literally?
<Laney> no
<Laney> like en_GB
<mpt> en_GB returns "English" and not "UK English"?
<mpt> RULE BRITANNIA
<Laney> there's a "language" method
<Laney> which is like that, yeah ...
<mpt> Laney, so does language("en") == language("en-NZ") == language("en-CA") etc?
<Laney> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtcore/qlocale.html#languageToString
<Laney> I think it was this one
<Laney> no, "en" was the odd one out
<Laney> IIRC
<seb128> how manager engineers does it take to make google hangout work with audio :p
<kenvandine> haha
<Laney> it broke when I went to the text chat to see what mpt said
<Laney> also then I couldn't figure out how to get back to the video for ages
<Laney> (you have to go to the notification)
<attente> and language("en-DK") == "US English" iirc
<Laney> can't remember exactly which ones
<Laney> but it was a bit messed up
<attente> wait, no. nack that
<Laney> this is languageToString(locale.language()) or similar
<Laney> what I was trying
<mpt> Laney, so, fixable upstream bugs?
<Laney> depends how deliberate it is I guess
<mpt> Would it help for me to describe the desired behavior so you can link bug reports to it? :-)
<Laney> sure, that can't hurt
<Laney> there's no variants at all in the mockup we have there now
<mpt> Thatâs because there arenât any in my wireframe, because I didnât know they existed
 * Laney nods
<mpt> Whatâs the biggest example? en, or fr, or something else?
<Laney> not sure
<Laney> I think es_ has quite a lot
<mpt> Laney, is a table of them published anywhere?
<Laney> looking
<Laney> mpt: ls /usr/share/i18n/locales
<mpt> Huh, there are no un-suffixed locales
<mpt> e.g. no "en"
<mpt> Laney, so does countryToString() correspond to âterritoryâ in these locale files?
<attente> Laney, in qtbase-opensource-src, there's a big list called "likely_subtags" in qlocale_data_p.h
<attente> trying to figure out where all those numbers are coming from
<Laney> mpt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6525278/ is a list of all of them
<Laney> I don't think we'd display all of those though; ours corresponds to `locale -a'
<Laney> that's code - native language name - native country name
<mpt> ar - Arabic - Egypt <facepalm/>
<mpt> fr - franÃ§ais - France
<Laney> I tried taking the native language name from the language-only codes and combining it with the native country name
<Laney> that's what fails with en - U.S. English - United States
<Laney> attente: seems magic to me
<Laney> but it says that en points to en_Latn_US which might be a clue
<attente> Laney, http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/language-tag-equivalences
<mpt> Laney, and with Arabic and with French as above â¦ Their un-suffixed versions assume a particular country
<Laney> mpt: I would ignore the country part there
<Laney> unless you mean it makes the language different
<mpt> That would work in most cases. It wouldnât work in spoken Arabic, but this is written Arabic, so
<Laney> I meant "combining it with the native country name of the suffixed version"
<Laney> attente: ah, fail, so it is deliberate
<mpt> Laney, ah, I thought you meant assuming that the unsuffixed one was suitable for generic use
<Laney> assuming its 'native language name' is
<Laney> pitti: did you commit that glib2.0 upload to debian? (or does it rely on 2.39 somehow?)
<pitti> Laney: no, not yet; I haven't tested it in Debian, not sure whether the gdb scripts are already in Debian's version
<Laney> doubt it, we were synced until the first 2.39 upload
<seb128> Laney, ok, so I'm going to upload pango for the new harfbuzz, giving sweetshark the end of week to try to get libreoffice to build
<Laney> or RM!
<Laney> (ok, cool)
<seb128> Laney, if it doesn't we can remove those from proposed on monday and rebuild webkit again
<seb128> does that sound like a plan to you? or do you prefer to rm harfbuzz until we get lo to buil?
<seb128> d
<Laney> it depends how likely it is that we'll get a fixed version
<Laney> i.e. if it will actually be worked on
<Laney> there is no point if it definitely will not be
<seb128> Laney, Sweetshark said he would have a try to see if it's easy
<mpt> Laney, yeah, I donât see a way of doing it without patching the names of those oddballs: U. S. English, Australian English, British English, franÃ§ais canadien, franÃ§ais suisse, espaÃ±ol de EspaÃ±a, and espaÃ±ol latinoamericano.
<mpt> (or however many of those we ship:-)
<seb128> Laney, ok, you convinced me to remove harfbuzz, we can easily bring it back
<Laney> k
<Laney> mpt: Indeed, but I suspect that's a no-go as attente linked to the standard that mandates this behaviour
<mpt> Laney, do you mean <http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/language-tag-equivalences>? That requires nothing about language names. We can rename âU. S. Englishâ to âEnglishâ while still accepting that en_US is equivalent to en.
<attente> mpt, so the objective is to scan through all of the locales, and replace the display language name to their basic forms?
<mpt> attente, only for the unsuffixed ones (or those that are equivalent to unsuffixed ones). For example, en/en_US would be âEnglishâ, followed by en_AU âEnglish (Australia)â, followed by en_GB âEnglish (United Kingdom)â, etc
<mpt> attente, and the reason I want to do that is so that the whole list isnât cluttered with territory names
<ricotz> seb128, Laney, hi, i guess pango and webkit won't have problem with the new harfbuzz, if libreoffice has it could switch to the internal copy in the meantime
<Laney> I think it ftbfs for some other reason
<attente> mpt, are we still keeping one entry per locale though?
<mpt> attente, sure
<ricotz> Laney, ok -- still it reasonable to get the new harfbuzz in
<seb128> ricotz, the issue is not harfbuzz, is to get libreoffice 4.1 building on the trusty toolchain
<Laney> ricotz: it sure is
<Laney> but it'll need to wait for libreoffice to build
<Laney> you can debug that if you want ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, ah ok, so the gcc 4.8 problem
<seb128> ricotz, we are going to get the new harfbuzz in 10 days when libreoffice 4.2rc1 is out and is ready to be uploaded to trusty
<ricotz> seb128, fair enough
<mpt> Itâs understandable but awkward that the language names are pre-translated into themselves. It means that the variations of Serbian will be sorted into two places, two under âÐ¡ÑÐ¿ÑÐºÐ¸â and two under âSrpskiâ.
<mpt> oh well
<attente> i'm still having some trouble determining where U.S. English is coming from
<seb128> mvo, hey, maybe you can help ... when does an installed package has no "candidate" version in apt?
<attente> definitely not coming from /usr/share/i18n/locales
<Laney> icu isn't it?
<attente> well.. looking at the code for languageToString, it seems to be coming from the qtbase-opensource-src package :/
<attente> ah. right. but we're using nativeLanguageName...
<attente> that's our answer i guess.. just use languageToString
<attente> oh. but those aren't translated..'
 * mpt tries not to wonder whether all the uncapitalized language names should be capitalized when they appear as menu items
<mvo> seb128: hi
<mvo> seb128: it means there is nothing that it can download, either because of apt pining or because the package is no longer on the server
<mvo> seb128: do you have some mor econtext?
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-properties/handle-no-candidate/+merge/197917
<mvo> seb128: ok, let me have a look, this can probably be fixed
<seb128> mvo, weird, I tried to install nvidia-304, removed the restricted source, did an index update and there was still a candidate
<seb128> mvo, I'm not sure how to end up in the buggy situation
<seb128> mvo, my guess is that those users install binary drivers that then get remove from the archive because they are replaced by newer versions
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the thing is - we should probably not display it if there is no candidate as it also means that the user won't be able to install it :)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, that would make sense,
<seb128> mvo, well, the list includes packages installed/in use
<seb128> mvo, you can't drop the driver in use just because it's not on the server anymore :p
<seb128> mvo, I was curious why dropping the apt source was not enough to end up with no candidate though
<mvo> seb128: aha, yeah, that makes sense, you could display the summary of the installed driver in this case - wnat me to have a look?
<mvo> seb128: normally the installed one is the candidate if there is nothing downloadable
<seb128> mvo, sure, if you want
<mvo> seb128: the situation that it has no candidate is unusual
<mvo> seb128: are there more logfile or more clues available? i.e. sources.list and maybe what package/version triggered the crash?
<mvo> seb128: is there a LP report (still can't see error.u.c :/)
<seb128> mvo, you should ask on #ubuntu-devel about e.u.c that must be an overlook/you probably expired from some team
<seb128> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1164927 seems to be the same
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1164927 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk crashed with AttributeError in gather_device_data(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'summary'" [Medium,New]
<seb128> mvo, no more info I'm afraid, but it has 1093 reports on e.u.c so it's not uncommon
<seb128> mvo, if we need those info we can maybe an apport hook to collect them?
<mvo> seb128: hhhmm, does the error report contains more details on error.ubuntu.com ? sources.list would be really nice
<seb128> mvo, no, the reports are basically a copy of the launchpad one
<seb128> we need an apport hook added to s-p if we want more info
<seb128> mvo, you don't have an idea on how that could happen? well in any case checking for None should be good enough to avoid the apport prompts there ... do you think it's still buggy that there is no candidate?
<seb128> mvo, to be it's likely what I said, install drivers on e.g saucy, upgrade to trusty, keep using those, oh they get deleted from the archive because e.g -304 becomes -310
<seb128> and the install 304 becomes without candidate
<seb128> (except that removing the source still give me a candidate there, but I don't understand apt, maybe it's cached?=
<mpt> Laney, attente: How does this look? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText#sorting
<mpt> I dropped the trickiness of removing the territory name from the unprefixed variation, to avoid accusations of imperialism :-)
<mpt> but that still leaves you with the problem of making sure âenâ ends up as âEnglish (US)â and not âU. S. Englishâ
<attente> mpt, sure, i can try it
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the part I don't quite understand is how this happens if the driver is still installed. or are we playing with /etc/apt/preferences or backports? backports might be a good explaination
<seb128> mvo, could be, you know users, crazy bunch :p
<mvo> haha, inded
<mvo> indeed
<seb128> but I don't have more infos, sorry
<seb128> maybe pitti would have an idea
<mvo> let go with your fix then
<seb128> mvo, great
<seb128> mvo, bear with me btw, trying to fix bugs in your softwares, I've a list of questions/stuff I don't understand ... ;-) (don't worry, not everything for the same day, I'm keeping other questions for other days :p)
<seb128> mvo, oh, and for the record the 3 bugs I chased down this week, they were introduced by people merging refactoring/port to the python3 work in there and not issue in your code
<seb128> damn hacker, taking mvo's good code and adding bugs to it!
 * mvo hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs mvo back
<Laney> doh, armhf ftbfs
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> I see a probable patch
 * Laney stabs the pandaboard
<Laney> so slow
<Laney> quite pleased it still works though
<larsu> after stabbing it? :P
<Laney> moar hamsters
<mpt> hamsterboard
<Sweetshark> Laney, larsu: Im slightly envious of the Linux-Debian-armhf_48 tinderbox, its a ODRIOD-XU http://tinderbox.libreoffice.org/MASTER/status.html
<larsu> Sweetshark: nice :)
 * larsu is glad he doesn't need to deal with builders that often
<ali1234> kenvandine: i got the gtk2 indicator working again. i did it by making it use a different dbus name, so it doesn't conflict with the gtk3 version. i figured this would just make volume control work, but to my surprise music players are still able to communicate with it. any idea why?
<larsu> ali1234: which dbus name did you change? Music players work via MPRIS, i.e. they don't find the applet on the bus, but the applet finds them
<ali1234> this is what i did: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6526233/
<ali1234> i changed the top level dbus name (the one used for service activation)
<ali1234> so that the old gtk2 backend gets loaded, instead of the rewritten gtk3 one
<larsu> ali1234: which version is that? dbus-shared-names.h doesn't exist anymore...
<ali1234> i'm hoping to get this SRU'd because we have a bug with 1000 heat, 100 comments, and 20 dupes, and people threatening to install mint if it isn't fixed
<larsu> which bug is that?
<ali1234> larsu: it's indicator-sound-gtk2 - it's still the old version
<larsu> ah, right
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound-gtk2 (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<larsu> ali1234: what about the other indicators? don't they have the same problem?
<ali1234> thee's only one other gtk2 indicator left
<larsu> hm, okay
<ali1234> and that is appindicators
<ali1234> it appears to still work
<ali1234> larsu: ah, you're the one who rewrote it all :)
<seb128> larsu, that's a leftover fork of an old version because xfce is still on the old gtk...
<larsu> ya...
<ali1234> so what happened indicator-sound-gtk2 is a totally different source package now, but it's set to depend on indicator-sound for the dbus service, but that dbus service is now radically different
<ali1234> but we can't hae two dbus services with the same activation name, so i changed the activation name
<larsu> ali1234: right, the indicator architecture changed quite a bit. Services are totally independent of gtk now (because mobile)
<ali1234> i guess i can probably drop the dependency on indicator-sound too, and make it a totally different thing
<larsu> seb128: we told everyone pretty early that we'll drop gtk2 support after 12.04
<seb128> larsu, yeah, not our fault
<ali1234> xubuntu won't even use it in 14.04
<seb128> larsu, but xfce is still using gtk2
<seb128> ali1234, oh, do they plan to go gtk3 or to use something else?
<larsu> ali1234: yes, most likely. Also, indicators won't even use dbus activation anymore pretty soon
<ali1234> gtk3 indicator support is already done upstream
<seb128> what about xfce itself (just curious there)
<ali1234> yes, upstream=xfce
<ali1234> oh, ... some stuff in xfce is converted to gtk3
<ali1234> it's ongoing
<seb128> going to land for the LTS?
<ali1234> hopefully
<seb128> nice
<ali1234> depends when they release 4.12
<larsu> ali1234: using the new-style indicator services?
<ali1234> larsu: hahahaha
<ali1234> larsu: gtk3 indicators were working in saucy, then the new style indicators broke it
<ali1234> that's why the broken gtk2 indicator got shipped :(
<ali1234> but yes, we fixed it for the indicator3 stuff
<larsu> ali1234: it's pretty easy to convert to the new style. There's a convinience class in libindicator for that
<ali1234> just not in time for the release
<larsu> :(
<ali1234> please don't break it again
<ali1234> at least not for the LTS
<larsu> I think somebody already did - they depend on upstart now
<ali1234> well, xubuntu uses upstart
<larsu> ya, but you need to tell upstart to start the indicator processes instead of just hitting up the names on the bus
<ali1234> doesn't the indicator3 wrapper do that?
<larsu> don't ask me why, I'm not especially a fan of that
<larsu> ali1234: I don't think so
 * larsu didn't write it
<ali1234> hmm :/
<ali1234> well, i'll check that out, thanks
<Laney> I restarted my gnome-panel the other day after 30 days or so and don't have some indicators any more :(
<Laney> UPSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
<larsu> ali1234: talk to tedg, he has all the answers
<Laney> (starting friday early)
<larsu> Laney: ya. Don't get me started.
<ali1234> yeah maybe this is why we got some bug reports of missing indicators on trusty
<seb128> Laney, I'm surprised they still let you work here, unity hater!
<Laney> seb128: it's alright, I'm not the worst one
<larsu> Laney: incidentally, do you want to patch dbus/upstart so that dbus activation works via upstart?
 * Laney looks at desrt
 * seb128 hands larsu some hot chocolate (is that the winter version of ice cream?)
<Laney> larsu: hahaha
<seb128> Laney, lol
<larsu> Laney: I hear there's even a start of a patch flying around somewhere
<Laney> that already existed in the past you know
<larsu> :P
<Laney> it was in our dbus and everything
<seb128> pitti destroyed it for us
<Laney> and if you look for a few seconds you find a funny thread between keybuk and poettering
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> (he just updated dbus and didn't update the patches)
<larsu> Laney: meh, I don't care about the details :P
<larsu> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> (which is understandable, I would probably not want/be able to update those)
 * larsu is quite content hacking on evince right now
<Laney> no, they need to be upstream
<seb128> Laney, there is no upstream dbus anymore with kdbus?
<larsu> I have the feeling we'll be dbus upstream in the not-so-distant future
<larsu> ya, what seb128 says
<seb128> oh, larsu just stepped up
<seb128> \o/
 * larsu runs away
<seb128> larsu, did you just sussssh "attente"?
<larsu> Ã¼lol
<seb128> yeah, that guy has a gut for picking up on challenges
<larsu> definitely.
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> attente: are you up for it? IM stuff is done, right?
<attente> :(
<seb128> it's almost friday, can feel it!
<seb128> ;-)
<attente> :'(
<Laney> heh
<larsu> it's Friday in some parts of the world
<attente> lol
 * larsu hands attente some mango sorbet
 * seb128 hands attente some hot chocolate as well
<seb128> we should stop being mean to him
<larsu> ooh, nice combination!
 * attente thinks these perks have strings attached
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> attente: only one string
<larsu> "dbus"
<charlie> I want to start developing for ubuntu, but was wondering if its okay/suggested to develop in 14.04 daily build installation?
<ali1234> depends what you mean by "develop"
<ali1234> if you want to fix existing packages, 14.04 is the place to be. if you want to write new apps, not so much. at least not for your dev machine. maybe for testing machines.
<sarnold> or if your applications are targetting 14.04 LTS as the envisioned deployment..
<charlie> I plan to start all my dev activities on a virtual box having 14.04 daily builds so that my base ubuntu 13.10 stays safe
<charlie> i wanna start with minor bug fixes via LP and bzr
<ali1234> that sounds reasonable
<charlie> bt eventually move to some app dev too
<charlie> ok.. Thanks..
<xclaesse> seb128, FYI, that patch is probably needed for ubuntu as well (did not test though): http://sourceforge.net/p/sofia-sip/bugs/121/
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<xnox> Laney: well done =) it's built
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-06
<happyaron> JackYu: ping
<JackYu> hapyyaron, pong
<didrocks> hey robru, still around to update me on the Unity8/Upstart app launch things?
<robru> didrocks, haha. so mirv filed a bug about upstart, and unity8 never landed due to merge conflicts in trunk.
<robru> didrocks, also i had a power outage here and it resulted in corruption on my boot drive, so I've spent most of the day reinstalling and recovering my system :-/
<didrocks> robru: argh, I hope you can recover :/
<didrocks> robru: what's this merge conflicts in trunk? This is for the branch we are waiting on landing?
<robru> didrocks, almost there...
<didrocks> robru: also, having a link to this branch we wait on for releasing would be appreciated ;)
<robru> didrocks, yeah, sil told me the MP that we should watch, and I saw it get approved, and then jenkins failed to merge it due to flaky tests, so I went for a manual merge and there were conflicts, it wouldn't merge after that. I told them on the MP to rebase on trunk
<didrocks> making sense
<robru> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/broken_collapse/+merge/197844
<didrocks> robru: excellent thanks!
<didrocks> robru: btw, do not add any other landing please until we promote an image
<didrocks> especially risky ones like ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<robru> didrocks, they told me it fixed test failures ;-)
<didrocks> we want to be able to go back to a good state before putting cracks in
<didrocks> robru: yeah, fixes and regressions :p
<didrocks> (potential at least)
<didrocks> apart if they only touch codes in tests/
<robru> didrocks, ok, please let t1mp know that you veto'd it, since I already said i would do it
<didrocks> robru: will do
<didrocks> yeah, look at trunk
<didrocks> quite a lot of changes
<didrocks> let's hope we can promote an image today
<robru> didrocks, ahhhhh, I need the VPN details. is there a wiki for that somewhere?
<didrocks> robru: hum, I think I sent an email about that 3 weeks ago :)
<didrocks> robru: sent
<didrocks> robru: I hope you recovered your emails
<robru> didrocks, emails? those are all in gmail!
<robru> the cloud is great ;-)
<robru> didrocks, yeah, personal files were well backed up, but I lost the system partition, so things like vpn config tokens are gone
<didrocks> robru: oh, mine in my ~ dir
<didrocks> thanks for network-manager
<didrocks> to*
<robru> didrocks, where does it hide? i was using network manager...
<didrocks> robru: IIRC, it's in gsettings
<robru> didrocks, how do I extract gsettings from a not-running user directory? ~/.local where?
<didrocks> robru: hum, forget about it? I don't find them in a dconf dump
<robru> didrocks, anyways, it's midnight. i'll get back on the VPN tomorrow
<didrocks> yep, sounds better :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> happy friday!
<Laney> hey!
<Laney> xnox: w o w !
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128, hey Laney
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<Laney> hey seb128 pitti
<pitti> Ã§a va bien !
<Laney> pretty decent, glad that it's friday :-)
<seb128> Laney, congrats on defeating webkitgtk
<Laney> crazy eh?
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> just have to test build every future upload on 4 arches from now on
<seb128> I'm surprised you didn't go "I never want to upload webkit ever again"
<Laney> there is that
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> Laney: I don't even think we need it much longer. The web seems to be a passing fad
<Laney> port all to oxide
<Laney> then deprecate webkitgtk and let attente maintain it
<seb128> you guys are just mean to attente!
<larsu> attente already had his troll friday last night
<seb128> oh, wait, it's friday
<seb128> ok then
<larsu> haha
<larsu> I thought you redeclared them to learn-something-Fridays?
<larsu> I guess we all learned how much we like trolling...
<seb128> lol, indeed
<seb128> larsu, btw, gtk 3.10.6 in the ppa, seems to work fine there
<seb128> I'm pondering uploading to trusty today or give it the W.E and upload on monday
<larsu> give it the weekend, please :)
<Laney> oh, invisible cursor
<seb128> k
<Laney> haven't had that bug in a couple of weeks :P
 * larsu doesn't want to wake up to angry emails on Saturday
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<seb128> Laney, when did you last update/restart xorg? is that happening at boot/login?
<Laney> i just turned it on today
<Laney> and after starting the session, don't know if it was there on the greeter
<seb128> is that current trusty?
<Laney> ish
<seb128> no ish
<Laney> I think I dist-upgraded yesterday
<Laney> not today
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1238410
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1238410 in X.Org X server "Inconsistent cursor visibility with cursor plugin enabled" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> Laney, it was supposed to be fixed with xorg's update on wednesday
<seb128> Laney, can you make sure if you have that version or not?
<Laney> xorg-server?
<seb128> see comment 24
<seb128> on that bug
<Laney> ok /me looks
<Laney> ah
<Laney>   Installed: 2:1.14.3-5ubuntu1
<Laney>   Candidate: 2:1.14.4-1ubuntu1
<ali1234> tedg: what do we need to do in xfce4-indicator-plugin to handle upstart indicator activation?
<ali1234> just system("init ..."); ?
<seb128> Laney, I prefer that ;-)
<tedg> ali1234, Yeah, did you see the commit to unity-greeter?
<ali1234> tedg: yes
<Laney> indeed
<tedg> ali1234, I think that's the best way.
<ali1234> i guess i need to use something that doesn't wait for the process to finish, ie fork()
<tedg> ali1234, Though, I'd really recommend switch XFCE over to Upstart User Sessions :-)
<ali1234> xubuntu uses upstart
<tedg> System session, probably not user session.
<ali1234> it uses upstart for the user session
<tedg> Really?
<ali1234> yes really. we had to get it fixed
<tedg> Cool.  Then you shouldn't need to do anything.
<ali1234> well, ok then, your new indicators are broken :(
<tedg> Oh, you need to emit that event.
<ali1234> half the time they don't load up
<tedg> So just a "initctl emit-event indicator-service-start"
<ali1234> hmm.
<tedg> So just a "initctl emit-event indicator-services-start"
<tedg> (notice typo in first one)
<ali1234> assuming you meant initctl emit
<ali1234> is that command supposed to hang forever?
<tedg> Yes, sorry it's early :-)
<tedg> Shouldn't be forever...
<ali1234> oh i see... i already had run the command that starts the job direct
<tedg> You can use --no-wait if you want it exit right away.
<ali1234> ok. so what should emit this event?
<ali1234> the indicator plugin? or something earlier in the session startup?
<seb128> Laney, why did you put a block on webkitgtk again? (did I ask before?)
<Laney> just to test it
<Laney> I'll remove it shortly
<seb128> ok
<Laney> then start on the g-o-a transition
<seb128> \o/
<tedg> ali1234, I'd say the indicator plugin, then you can emit the end as well to manage the full lifecycle if it gets added or removed.
<ali1234> tedg: ok, thanks.
<Laney> oh come on
<seb128> Laney, don't tell me that webkit is buggy
<Laney> no
<Laney> my session won't open
<seb128> won't open?
<seb128> do you need help debugging?
<Laney> greeter goes away, hangs
<Laney> well, not hang, but no compiz
<Laney> sec, checking logs
<seb128> no compiz or no unity?
<Laney> both
<seb128> hum
<Laney> I've got various things like this in logs: (gnome-settings-daemon:3897): Gdk-WARNING **: gnome-settings-daemon: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.
<ali1234> silly question, but is your hard drive full?
<Laney> /dev/sda5       120G  102G   13G  90% /
<seb128> Laney, what do you have in your gnome-session.log ?
<seb128> Laney, those seems like xorg is closing/have an issue
<Laney> a load of those
<seb128> does it work to start a guest session?
<Laney> no, it's the same
<seb128> using nouveau?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> well, you can try to ruling out lightdm by going to a vt and do startx : --1 or something
<asac> hey ho ... my trusty desktop system just came to stall (no mouse/keyboard input for 20+ seconds) with oneconf-service and x*apt-something looping at 100% at the same time
<asac> maybe there is an unfortunate timed cron job that kicks both at the same time?
<ogra_> it is just not storm safe
<ogra_> check the ropes ;)
<seb128> asac, I'm not sure they are croned, they might just react to apt index changes, didrocks probably knows since he wrote oneconf
<seb128> ogra_, do you still get s-c to hit that Xerror?
<ogra_> seb128, dunno, will test when i'm at the machine
<ogra_> (and report back)
<seb128> ogra_, thanks (could use debug infos from somebody having the issue)
<ogra_> yup
<didrocks> they aren't cronned but trigger by dpkg
<didrocks> well for oneconf at least
<seb128> Laney, did you figure it out?
<Laney> no :(
<seb128> is startx working?
<Laney> It waits for ages and eventually I get a timeout locking .Xauthority
<Laney> even if I rm it beforehand
<ali1234> tedg: the indicator services don't start up fast enough and i just get an empty panel
<tedg> ali1234, Hmm, but they do start?
<ali1234> yes
<tedg> ali1234, Do you then populate as they come up?
<ali1234> no
<tedg> ali1234, Are you using the libindicator code?  I thought it handled that.
<ali1234> libindicator3, yes
<ali1234> it doesn't handle it
<ali1234> i'm building with a long delay to see what happens
<tedg> K
<ali1234> tedg: i see what is happening
<ali1234> when it runs "initctl emit indicator-service-start" it hangs, because the service is already running for some reason
<ali1234> tedg: libappindicator is falling back to systray for no good reason
<Laney> larsu: http://ubuntuone.com/1GS1IppvwNFus6HMOZEXeA â see the white bars on the toolbar - is that a gtk / theme problem?
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/upstart-job/revision/245
<ali1234> tedg: you just broke appindicators for gnome-panel and xubuntu
<tedg> ali1234, That's just application indicators, but I expected those folks to use the XDG autostart file.  Happy to change it around.
<ali1234> xdg-autostart doesn't work for appindicator-service
<ali1234> it immediately exits if nothing is using it
<ali1234> actually, i don't see how it can work with upstart either
<ali1234> at the very least there's a nasty race condition
<ali1234> my logs are full of "service respawning" spam because of this shutdown-if-nothing-is-using-me functionality
<ali1234> this is probably why they only load up half of the time too
<ali1234> also the indicator-services-end signal doesn't appear to do anything
<tedg> Yeah, probably removing those timeouts makes sense now that they're managed by the session management.
<ali1234> sometimes they get killed because of respawning too fast
<ali1234> i'm not sure if xubuntu is using upstart or xdg-autostart to start these services, but all i know is that half of them are already loaded when i log in, sending the startup event hangs initctl, and appindicator-service is impossible to start or use in any way
<larsu> Laney: looks like it, yes. Which version of epiphany is that?
<Laney> larsu: it's epiphany-browser 3.8.2-4ubuntu1 from trusty-proposed
<larsu> ah okay, that's why I'm not seeing that yet
<Laney> just about to unblock webkit, so you'll get it soon :P
<larsu> yay
<larsu> I'll have a look into that, then. Thanks for pointing it out
<Laney> yw
<seb128> Laney, you really use web from browsing?
<seb128> or did you just test webkit?
<Laney> EPARSE
<seb128> web = epiphany
<Laney> was just to test webkit
<Laney> s/from/for/
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> do you need extra testers for webkit?
<seb128> did you figure out your login issues btw?
<Laney> yeah, was a non-executable file which broke an upstart job that blocked the session login
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> that seems like unreliability
<Laney> the design of upstart allows any job to block any other job
<Laney> so you'll get things like this, unfortunately
<Laney> I'm sure there could be better troubleshooting though
<seb128> fair enough, and the real issue seems like your -x file
<Laney> yes, I uploaded a fix for that
<Laney> you could have like upstart watching for failed job starts or something
<Laney> or unity not coming up, and dumping its state to errors
<seb128> right
<ali1234> tedg: via use of INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS env var, i was able to make the service work properly
<Laney> feel free to bash on webkit but I'm going to unblock it anyway; can fix stuff in release :P
<Laney> also, src:webkit can be removed now
<tedg> ali1234, Great, that makes sense.  Makes more sense to do it that way.
<Laney> well, once it migrates
<ali1234> and luckily this timeout is implemented in libindicator3, so it only has to be removed in one place for all of them :)
<ogra_> uhm ... so after todays upgrade evolution goes constantly to 100% CPu usage :(
<pitti> seb128: FYI, bug 1258458 is a dupe, fixed already two weeks ago
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1252305 in apport (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1258458 dpkg-divert not found" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252305
<pitti> people ought to upgrade their trusty a bit more often :)
<seb128> pitti, thanks, we should also block reports from outdated systems (same way apport is doing it)
<seb128> ogra_, weird, we didn't change a lot yesterday
<seb128> ogra_, what did you get in your round of upgrades?
<ogra_> glib perhaps ?
<ali1234> Laney: if you put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment this may provide a temporary workaround for missing indicators
<ogra_> though the changes dont look like they could cause issues
<seb128> I doubt it
<seb128> that's only adding some python debug stuff
<ogra_> right
<seb128> did you get the new webkit?
<Laney> ali1234: cheers
<ogra_> is it in the archive ? then i should have gotten it
<Laney> are you going to do a MP to remove the check?
<ogra_> with the new update manager it is really hard to say what i got
<ali1234> Laney: yes
<Laney> look in /var/log/dpkg.log
<ogra_> the list of stuff is completely useless
<Laney> webkit migrated about 2 minutes before you mentioned the issue
<Laney> so i doubt you have that, unless you're running proposed
 * ogra_ wonders why we show the list at all ... it doesnt really help anymore they way it is 
<seb128> ogra_, what list?
<ogra_> seb128, update-manager
<seb128> why is it not useful?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, except that whoopsie circumvents that check
<seb128> pitti, I wonder if that's a good idea...
<ogra_> because it uses weird cryptic package descriptions i would have to decypher first before knowing what i get
<seb128> ogra_, we need to put better descriptions in our control files then...
<Laney> well... we're asking him for the name of the software
<ogra_> the description doesnt say something like "webkit foo bar baz" .... but says "very fast html rendering engine"
<ogra_> thats absolutely not helpful without the exact package name ...
<ogra_> (i'm making up the texts, just an example)
<seb128> you are too technical, that tools is aiming at being user friendly
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> my mom wouldnt bother ...
<ogra_> i wouldnt show that list at all
<seb128> the intend is to list end user applications in the main list
<seb128> with their icon
<seb128> that works quite well
<seb128> the technical items are under base OS
<ogra_> for the tree apps that get updated along the 200 other packages, yes
<ogra_> *three
<ogra_> so just show apps with .desktop files or so
<ogra_> i think what we show now is confusing
<ogra_> btw, no webkit in dpkg.log
<seb128> k
<seb128> and you can reproduce the bug after restarting evo?
<seb128> ogra_, http://ubuntuone.com/32sd5Xmv7NIgIry7ESlXir
<seb128> ogra_, that looks a fine list to me...
<seb128> ogra_, the security view is a bit weird, on a normal upgrade you would have the technical items under "Ubuntu base"
<seb128> but the top of the list is nice, archive manager, desktop sharing, firefox web browser, etc
<seb128> those are quite useful descriptions/items
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601/+build/5306216 :(
<Sweetshark> seb128: I updated the mdds version to the latest upstream, still happens on the trusty toolchain. I gotta check updating to the latest LO41 is of help otherwise it means digging deeper.
<seb128> Sweetshark, can we just build with gcc-4.7 or something?
<Sweetshark> seb128: hmm, good point.
<Sweetshark> seb128: Ill try.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<ogra_> seb128, yes, the top looks fine ... further down not so much ... i would exclude libs and all
<ali1234> how do i build libindicator from bzr into a package? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6529519/
<seb128> bah, webkit
<seb128> dbg = 350M, installed 1.5G
<seb128> qengho, hey
<seb128> qengho, do you have any news about the autopkgtest blocking chromium in trusty-proposed?
<Laney> ali1234: how did you invoke the build?
<ali1234> "debuild"
<Laney> use bzr bd from bzr-builddeb
<ali1234> do i have to commit changes for that to work?
<Laney> no, but you have to bzr add new files
<ali1234> noted, thanks
<desrt> hihi, peeps
<seb128> desrt, hey, happy friday!
<seb128> Laney, so, I need to do a webkit upload, anything you wanted added there?
<desrt> holy crap.  it's friday!
<seb128> yeah, a good friday so far
<JackYu> :)
<seb128> Laney even managed to finally get webkit to build on all archs, including arm*
<desrt> building webkit on arm?
<JackYu> I'm in the night of Friday...
<seb128> JackYu, you shouldn't be on the computer, that's not what friday nights are for!
<desrt> ...says seb, who will be here 8 hours from now
<JackYu> seb128, that's right. I will go to bed soon:)
<larsu> desrt: morning! Should g_settings_get() disallow non-copying format strings? It calls g_variant_unref() after all
<larsu> or is that a non-issue with all backends?
<desrt> larsu: it's a very complicated question, to which the answer is "yes"
<larsu> I find the question quite simple. Patch welcome?
<desrt> yes please
<desrt> the question is complicated by a few things
<larsu> okay. This will break at least evince
<desrt> because all backends do in fact support this
<desrt> but only 99% of the time
<larsu> hm?
<desrt> if the gvdb gets replaced and reopened then your string could disappear under you if you unreffed the gvariant
<larsu> which happens on writes, doesn't it?
<desrt> yup
<desrt> which don't happen 99% of the time
<desrt> also: you have to do another read on the client side as well
<desrt> because that's when it checks for the gvdb needing to be reopened
<desrt> in theory it's possible to ensure that this isn't happening in your process
<larsu> g_settings_get (settings, "&s", &str); g_settings_set (settings, whatever, bar); /* str is dangling */
<desrt> in practice... threads, etc...
<larsu> correct? ^
<desrt> no.  in this case str would still be OK
<larsu> why? Because you still have the old mmap even though the file link is gone`
<desrt> yes
<desrt> you have still mmaped the unlinked database
<larsu> interesting
<desrt> so the pointer is still good
<desrt> as i said -- it's complicated
<desrt> but i agree with your original idea to limit it
<larsu> but best avoided...
<desrt> yup
<larsu> I mean, you can always get 0-copy with g_settings_get_value()
<desrt> the other complicating factor: the API for checking format strings for copy-only was added long after g_settings_get()
<desrt> precisely.
<larsu> I know, I remember when you added it
<desrt> also: if you're storing something for which you care about zero-copy in gsettings then you're doing it wrong
<larsu> I came across someone doing it today, which is why I started wondering
<desrt> ya... so this is an API break
<desrt> i recommend doing two patches... first one should throw a critical but not return
<larsu> didn't bother you in gmenumodel...
<larsu> (same api break)
<Laney> seb128: what do you want to upload it for?
<Laney> but no
<desrt> gmenumodel was very new when i made this break
<desrt> gsettings is very old
<larsu> fair enough
<larsu> I'll do a critical first
<larsu> with a note that this won't work much longer :D
<desrt> party
<larsu> party?
<desrt> instead of saying 'awesome' or some other word
<larsu> you and your Canadian slang!
 * desrt discovers the hard way that bijiben's owncloud notes storage backend is ... unreliable
<desrt> "oh... look at all of these text files in my homedir containing useful information... i should turn those into bijiben notes"
<desrt> "okay... now i can delete the originals..."
<larsu> it does that?!
<desrt> larsu: no.  i did that.
<larsu> ah. lol.
<larsu> I mean, sorry for your data
<desrt> "hm.  let's open this again.... hey.... why is this empty?"
<desrt> larsu: don't be sorry for me.  mterry is on my side.
<Laney> there's a new tomboy?
<desrt> Laney: ish?
<larsu> Laney: yes, but it destroys your data
<desrt> the local storage backend is working nicely, fwiw
<desrt> but uh... owncloud... ya
<desrt> don't use that :)
<Laney> canonical destroyed my tomboy notes too, don't worry
<desrt> Laney: it's actually kinda nice.  it looks attractive and is integrated with gnome-shell search
<larsu> the reason I went back to editing notes with vi ^^
<desrt> (full text)
<seb128> Laney, I've been getting debug infos and pinging people about that software-center Xerror that tops e.u.c since raring and Company has a tentative fix
<Laney> ok, well I'd rather you get confirmation in a ppa
<Sweetshark> anyone having seen stuff like this (on trusty): http://pastebin.com/x4qyVXsD ?
<seb128> Laney, are you able to reproduce?
<Laney> no
<seb128> Laney, I was going to get confirmation through e.u.c stats
<Laney> we know a german man who can though
<Laney> at least judging by the frequency he complains about it
<larsu> desrt: the faux ruled paper is a bit annoying
<seb128> ok; let me throw it in a ppa then
<desrt> larsu: i actually like that
<Laney> i like that fix
<seb128> me too ;-)
<Laney> there should be a new point release along shortly so we might not need to upload explicitly for it anwyay
 * desrt likes dejadup for pulling his ass from the fire once again
<Laney> but good to know if it works
<seb128> Laney, I really want to SRU that though
<seb128> let's go through ppa
<Laney> yeah you can do that
<larsu> desrt: so g_variant_check_format_string() spews a critical itself, but only for one case
<larsu> (when the string contains a & and copy-only is TRUE)
<desrt> larsu: sounds fine... critical is totally appropriate here
<desrt> just don't bail out of g_settings_get() because of it
<desrt> i'd watch for the check() function returning false, and in that case issue -another- critical about "tried to read key 'xyz' from schema 'abc'"
<larsu> desrt: I'm okay with that. I just don't like that it does a critical for _one_ case
<desrt> to make it very easy to find
<desrt> larsu: that does seem odd.  let me look.
<larsu> ya, that's what I'm doing
<larsu> also, "for the love of all that is good, please don't mark this string for translation..."
<desrt> :)
<desrt> can you understand why?
<larsu> because it's non-trivial to explain correctly?
<mterry> desrt, yay!  glad DD worked.  all I ever see is the bugs when it doesn't  :)
<desrt> because, as a new translator, i have new appreciation for the pain that translators feel when faced with these kinds of messages
<desrt> mterry: the 'restore old version' item in the rightclick menu in nautilus is totally great
<larsu> mterry: if that's the case let me add myself publically to the "happy users" list
<mterry> desrt, you lost the files outright, eh?  Have you tried the 'restore missing files' option?  It's magic
<desrt> mterry: i just noticed that this was added
<desrt> was about to complain about how i have to touch the file back into existence
<desrt> when did this show up?
<mterry> desrt, it's been there a year+ at least
<desrt> that's pretty great
<mterry> desrt, was a summer of code thing from a 2 years ago maybe
<desrt> this is massive win
<mterry> larsu, awesome  :)
<desrt> mterry: slightly annoying at the same time, though
<desrt> mterry: i can't select a file from the list to restore until the scanning is done
<desrt> even though the list populates itself as it goes
<mterry> desrt, hmm, fair
<mterry> it also needs a sweep with the pretty brush
<desrt> larsu: so the reason it throws a critical there is because this case is a programmer error
<desrt> larsu: the other cases (unexpected type of GVariant shows up) are errors that originate from outside of the program
<larsu> desrt: good point. Thanks.
<larsu> desrt: no g_settings_get_schema?
<desrt> obviously that's not an issue for you with gsettings
<desrt> larsu: g_settings_schema_source_lookup iirc
<desrt> or do you mean for getting the schema on the settings object itself
<larsu> the latter
<larsu> g_object_get (settings, "settings-schema",..)
<desrt> ya.... that's tricky because of the naming
<desrt> i wonder what would happen if i removed the "schema" property
<larsu> api break
<desrt> it's been deprecated for a while
<desrt> i don't know if anyone is actually using it
<larsu> I only want the schema id and I've got to jump through hoops for that
<desrt> are you inside of gsettings?
<larsu> ya
<larsu> settings->schema?
<desrt> you have a pointer to the schema in your priv
<desrt> g_settings_schema_get_id (settings->priv->schema)
<Sweetshark> note to self: executing commands that rm -rf /dev is unhealthy. even if done indirectly. even if done from a chroot, if it bind-mounts /dev.
<larsu> desrt: thanks
<desrt> returns const char*, btw
<larsu> g_settings_get should really return a boolean
<attente> Laney, all of that language data on the device seems to be compiled into a single private header in qtbase-opensource-src
 * desrt readies the cluebat
<desrt> larsu: why would a function that is always successful return a boolean?
<Laney> attente: o rly?
<attente> Laney, yeah.. can't really think of a way to change it short of adding a patch there
<larsu> desrt: I knew you'd say that. You want g_error for copying formats in the future?
<desrt> larsu: no.  i want you to return.
<attente> but it's basically a patch of a generated file on a generated file
<attente> *it would be
<desrt> larsu: the absolute last thing in the world i want is for people to be checking the return value of every g_settings_get() call
<Laney> is english the only one where using the short code gives you the wrong thing?
<larsu> desrt: okay, but then you really want g_error (once this critical has been in long enough)
<desrt> larsu: ya.  that's fair.
<desrt> what we _really_ want is to change all of these g_error() to g_critical() and make g_critical() fatal for developers
<attente> Laney, well, it's hard to say, but that's a side-effect of QLocale("en_DK.utf8") being the same of QLocale("en")
<desrt> ... if we ever discover a reasonable way to do that
<Laney> oh I don't know about the en_DK problem
<attente> it's a bit tricky and not obvious how to fix it
<attente> the language names themselves, well. i can edit the CLDR and regenerate the header
<attente> but in order to make sure a problem like en -> en_DK doesn't occur, i'd have to make sure that all locales possibly output by 'locale -a' have an entry in the CLDR :S
<Laney> it's a fallback?
<attente> yeah. to explain it a bit more clearly, in u-s-s, how we try to determine what 'en' maps to, is we look through all of the 'en_*' locales, create a QLocale for each, and test for equivalence between that and the QLocale for 'en'
<attente> so if we find an 'en_*' that's the same as 'en', we say, "oh! en is en_BLAH!"
<attente> but that doesn't work for en because en_DK falls back to en :(
<attente> and that's because it's missing in the CLDR
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> attente: I wonder if we could use icu directly
 * ogra_ wonders why locale name mapping is still such a pain ... i still remember when the hardcoded mapping list entered GDM years and years ago to work around this 
<Laney> attente: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6530205/
<attente> Laney, that's icu output?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> attente: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6530218/ give it a play
<Laney> boo tab damage :P
<attente> Laney, i must be doing something wrong, because i'm getting "en_US_POSIX - English (United States, Computer)" on the device
<Laney> for what?
<attente> when i run your test program
<Laney> with no arguments?
<Laney> I did for i in $(locale -i); ./a.out $i; done
<Laney> s/-i/-a/
<attente> oh ok
<Laney> without it just uses your current locale
<Laney> which I guess is POSIX for you there
<attente> ok, thanks
<attente> yeah, that works great!
<Laney> exciting
<Laney> did we have timeout problems with the libgdata tests before?
<seb128> Laney, yes
<happyaron> seb128: I'm a bit interest in XDG_CURRENT_SESSION, will there be any side effect if Kylin changes this to their own?
<happyaron> bschaefer: hey
<seb128> happyaron, yes, they need to patch all the .desktop to tweak their OnlyShowIn
<bschaefer> happyaron, hello
<happyaron> bschaefer: I want to know what's the status on the xim support?
<happyaron> seb128: and including all the Ubuntu/Unity-specific stuff, to make them also show in Kylin sessions, am I right?
<bschaefer> happyaron, right now, the bulk of it is done. There are a couple of problems, one being how to insert it into nux correctly
<bschaefer> happyaron, hoping to have that in soon
<happyaron> bschaefer: where is the branch? I lost the link (which I think you gave me before)
<bschaefer> happyaron, hmm for my xim support, I don't think i've actually pushed a branch. As it wont compile with unity with out a little hack
<happyaron> ok
<bschaefer> i really should push it to a branch though :)
<seb128> happyaron, right
<happyaron> even if we are not very likely to use fcitx in this LTS, Kylin is very interested to get the fcitx support landed, I've looked at the branch from csslayer and there are quite some stuff changing XIM/related stuff, so I'd like to know your opinion.
<happyaron> seb128: I see.
<seb128> happyaron, it's doable, we did do it (added Unity where we were using GNOME before), but it's some work
<bschaefer> happyaron, yup, the new changes that I will land will be support for preedit rendering
<bschaefer> which is something that wasn't there before
<happyaron> seb128: but I'd like to avoid that workload, so any other idea? do you think a gsettings key or something like that would work?
<seb128> happyaron, what are you trying to do?
<seb128> happyaron, is that still the branding stuff?
<happyaron> seb128: I would like to find a proper place so that applications specificially support the Kylin flavor can identify it, and other applications do just the same like in Ubuntu.
<seb128> happyaron, can't they just dpkg-divert the logos?
<happyaron> seb128: it's a bit more than branding. dpkg-divert the logo is ok, but they want to change more.
<seb128> happyaron, like?
<happyaron> seb128: they'd like to change every "Ubuntu" to "Ubuntu Kylin" if possible, with a very very high priority.
<seb128> do we have many "Ubuntu" mentions on our desktop?
<happyaron> not many, but have some hard coded places.
<happyaron> I'm waiting for a list from them to see how many places they would like to change.
<happyaron> in short, we need to find a way to make applications that specifically add the support for Kylin able to identify it easily, and other applications just continue to see the system/desktop as "genuine" Ubuntu. So they can do whatever thing they'd like to with minimal affect on other stuff.
<happyaron> seb128: any input?
<seb128> happyaron, I don't really understand the problem so not really
<xnox> happyaron: can you check what edubuntu does? i believe they customize the session name, while keeping it Ubuntu.
<seb128> I was going to say, edubuntu seems like an example to look at
<seb128> they do that sort of things
<happyaron> ok
<xnox> happyaron: alternatively you can add an upstart user session job to export a Kylin specific environment variable.
<seb128> but I don't see that many cases where we have an "Ubuntu" specific behaviour
<happyaron> seb128: there are quite some third-party software detects if it's running on "Ubuntu", and that's the question.
<xnox> happyaron: e.g. it's best if you tell us _what_ you are planning to modify.
<seb128> happyaron, is there?
<seb128> happyaron, I don't know of any example
<xnox> happyaron: becuase deciding on XDG_CURRENT_SESSION
<xnox> happyaron: is most lickely the wrong decision for any customizations.
<Laney> seb128: can we drop the goa dropping from libgdata?
<Laney> it's why gnome-documents/armhf now fails to build
<seb128> Laney, I know it's why
<Laney> should be ok with the split now, no?
<seb128> Laney, if the goa split making libgdata stop pulling in GTK?
<Laney> what was the path before?
<seb128> what patch?
<Laney> path
<happyaron> they told us they found several examples that relies on lsb-release's output, and never give an example, and ask to help change stuff for times, :(
<Laney> to getting webkitgtk
<seb128> oh
<seb128> libgdata->libgoa->libwebkitgtk
<Laney> I don't see it now
<Laney> want to check?
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> sure
<seb128> is every in trusty-proposed?
<seb128> everything
<Laney> enough to check that
<Laney> update an i386 chroot for example and install libgdata13
<seb128> right, on it
<Laney> you should see libgoa-1.0-0b
<seb128> weird, "  Candidate: 0.14.0-1ubuntu1"
<seb128> oh, fr mirror in there
 * seb128 changes that
<seb128> Laney, +1
<seb128> # apt-get install libgdata13 libgtk-3-0-
<seb128> 6 upgraded, 47 newly installed
<Laney> ok, great, doing
<seb128> that split is good news
<Laney> yeah it's pretty nice
<Laney> well done upstream for doing the library like that
<seb128> the armhf hack I tried last cycle was just a hack
<seb128> and I was not seeing a solution out of kicking goa out of build options for libgdata/e-d-s
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> damn, my latest rebuild of libgdata didn't hang
<Laney> at least means I can kick builds of the other stuff
<seb128> qengho, not there today?
<qengho> seb128: there?
<qengho> I'm here.
<ogra_> where ?
<seb128> qengho, I pinged you earlier to know the status of the autopkgtest test issues for chromium, not sure if you saw?
<seb128> qengho, anyway if you didn't, what's the status of chromium-browser/trusty (it's still blocked in trust-proposed)
<qengho> seb128: I don't see it.  I have #webapps testing a replacement. It should be today.
<seb128> qengho, ok, great news, thanks ;-)
<seb128> I hope we can get it unblocked next week
<seb128> ogra_, if the ppas every clean their backlog and give us a build, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=webkitgtk&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter= ... that should fix the software-center issue, testing appreciated if you can give it a run before your holidays
<seb128> ogra_, enjoy the holidays btw ;-)
<ogra_> heh, i will ... but i'll likely be around at times too
<ogra_> in public channels doing non work stuff
<seb128> ogra_, like testing s-c (e.g buying games to play :p)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra_> yeah :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: building LO4.1 with gcc-4.7 looks good so far. if it completes Ill hand you a pkg on Monday
<seb128> Sweetshark, great, thanks!
<Sweetshark> (on trusty)
<Laney> alright, happy weekend desktoppers!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-07
<circ-user-b7neg> I'm running Ubuntu 13.10 Server, and have installed ubuntu-desktop.  When the server boots up it goes straight into the Desktop login GUI.  I was wondering if its possible to prevent that from happening, and instead be faced with the traditional black login command screen?
<sarnold> circ-user-b7neg: echo manual > /etc/init/lightdm.override   ; see http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#override-files for details
<circ-user-b7neg> sarnold: thanks. there seems to be so many different ways
<sarnold> circ-user-b7neg: yeah; I quite like this new .override file method though, it doesn't change a packaged file (like modifying the .conf file directly) and it's way easier than managing the old sysv pile of symlinks :)
<Fudge> Hi, any tips for building problems with glib 2.3.6, backporting from raring to precise and i397 builds but amd64 gives off test errors, I read a log from this channel stating that sometiems it will build and others it will not. :D
<darkxst> Fudge, in a ppa or locally?
<Fudge> darkxst:  hi there mate, in ppa:vinux/precise-proposed
<darkxst> gwakeup tests, don't seem to work in PPA builders on amd64 for some reason
<Fudge> ah, should I modify it so it does not try?
<darkxst> yeh, but only for ppa builds
<darkxst> just add ' || true' to the make check line
<darkxst> in rules
<darkxst> Fudge, "DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET = $(if $(filter deb, $(cdbs_make_curflavor)), -k check || true)"
<Fudge> darkxst:  thank you so muchj mate, I will give it a try, would be wise to put the change in the changelog also?
<Fudge> replacing this line? DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET = $(if $(filter deb, $(cdbs_make_curflavor)), -k check)
<darkxst> Fudge, if you are preparing package for precise itself, then you would remove that hack once its ready
<Fudge> darkxst:  please forgive me as I am quite new to this, how would the hack be removed once uploaded and built?
<darkxst> Fudge, is this just for you ppa? or are you planning to get it into precise?
<Fudge> yes  just fo rour PPA, it is part of a process to backport some of the accessibility from raring hopefully to precise
<darkxst> while its in the PPA, then you just leave it there
<darkxst> if/when you want to get it actually into the precise archives you will need to undo the change before creating debdiff or bzr repo
<Fudge> ah understood, thank you for your help mate :D
<Fudge> darkxst:  successful for amd64 now but i386 failed lol oops :(
<Fudge> bbl
<xclaesse> I have a crash report in /var/crash that I want to upload in lp
<xclaesse> I do apport-bug <the .crash file>
<xclaesse> it shows the bug report, but when I click continue, it does not open firefox with the bug report
<xclaesse> how do I know if it got filled?
<ali1234> xclaesse_ see http://askubuntu.com/q/150476/12435
<xclaesse> ali1234, cool, adding KernelOops in problem_types made it, thanks :)-
<Fudge> darkxst:  was that check supposed to break i386, bit confused now I have the first i386 build then the second with a bump in version for our ppa successful but only for amd64 :D
<darkxst> Fudge, no reason that would  break i386
<Fudge> thanks
<Fudge> our timezones work well darkxst  you're around when I'm trying to break things :D
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-08
<xnox> larsu: where are these "upstart activated indicators" come from? it's completely wrong, since indicator itself has no knoweledge wether it should be running or not.
<xnox> larsu: and indeed it should be activate externally, sure it could be dbus activation, or a upstart event / explicit start, or what not. But by no means I should be starting _all_ indicators ever in e.g. ubiquity-dm or lightdm.
<ali1234> xnox: bug 1185565
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185565
<xnox> ali1234: it all doen't make any sense. They way upstart works, is that everything is started when it can. But indicators have different profiles/sets depending on the environment (e.g. ubiquity, lightdm, unity, !unity) and thus it's impossible for them to encode a job as to when to start them.
<ali1234> *shrug* ask tedg... he coded it all
<xnox> ali1234: one shouldn't do that without consultation / consensus. we have vUDS, blueprints, and mailint lists.
<xnox> ali1234: i've tested things here and here is the plan: reintroduce xdg-autostart desktop, add xdg-autostart override (if running under upstart), reintroduce dbus activation service file.
<xnox> ali1234: once dbus-upstart-activation support lands, one would still need the dbus .service file anyway.
<xnox> ali1234: this unbreaks indicators under upstart-less sessions.
<ali1234> they all have xdg-autostart files already, and they appear to work under xubuntu (even though it uses upstart anyway)
<xnox> ali1234: some of them do not anymore.
<xnox> ali1234: i think the point here is that they have been removed upstream, and hence not present on the CD, but e.g. they do work on "upgrades" because the conffile was not properly removed.
<xnox> ali1234: can you check if it's owned?
<xnox> i agree that xdg-autostart files are probably not strictly required.
<ali1234> updating...
<ali1234> btw
<ali1234> if you are just getting missing indicators, that's probably because the auto-shutdown code is still present
<ali1234> so they load up and immediately quit because nothing is ready to use it
<xnox> i have something that will use them....
<ali1234> "will" - if it doesn't start within 500msec, the service quits
<xnox> it is up and using them. but still thanks for the tip.
<ali1234> if you put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in the environment it stops this behaviour
<ali1234> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6538877/
<ali1234> the dbus service files for bluetooth, keyboard, messages, printers do appear to be unowned
<ali1234> and there's no autostart for them either
<larsu> xnox: I agree with you (see my comment on that bug).
<robert_ancell> attente, around?
<attente> robert_ancell, yep
<robert_ancell> attente, have you seen bug 1255558?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1255558 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Can't type my password after cold boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255558
<robert_ancell> I was wondering if the indicator-keyboard might be having an effect (i.e. setting a null keyboard layout)
<robert_ancell> or g-s-d or something else involved in the keyboard stack
<attente> if set_layout isn't called on unity greeter, what layout does it default to at first?
<robert_ancell> attente, whatever X does or whatever g-s-d does
<robert_ancell> We don't expect to use set_layout in the greeter, we just rely on g-s-d setting up X "correctlyZ"
<robert_ancell> - the Z :)
<attente> ah, ok
<xnox> larsu: i think i'll work something out. e.g. bring back dbus activation, and finally port upstart-dbus-activation such that one can get the upstart benefits yet still dbus-activate.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: ping?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, hello
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi, Robert!
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Have you had a chance to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/lightdm/startup-dialog/+merge/198004 ?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yes, I saw it - looks good!
<robert_ancell> I was going to say it needs the translations, but you already mentioned that
<robert_ancell> I was wondering if we should run it past the design team, but I don't think they'll have any major objections. We can always update the text later if that is a problem
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: While I think that such an info dialog makes sense as the default behavior, I imagine that some system admins may want to handle it otherwise, so some kind of boolean config option may be advisable.
<robert_ancell> yes, that seems likely
<Laney> xnox: do that, do it do it do it
<robert_ancell> though sysadmins can edit the script if necessary
<Laney> bonus if you can get it upstream
<robert_ancell> I believe many sysadmins just disable guest account anyway
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Right, but then the changes get lost at next upgrade...
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, note there is a little bit of a problem with putting UI specific code in lightdm, but I plan to (at some point) split this out into a unity-guest-session package then it wont be a problem
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Disabling the guest session feature is another thing.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Are you saying that it cannot be merged at this time?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, actually, thinking about that, it would be nicer to just have a script hook of some sort and then we can have a unity hook that shows the warning
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, I think the value of the feature outweighs the downsides
<robert_ancell> and we can improve on it later
<robert_ancell> with a hook it could be more easily disabled, overridden
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Actually, using hooks is what I have been doing in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CustomizeGuestSession for quite a while. This proposal simply moves one of those customization ideas into lightdm, in order to make it the default.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: As regards the possibility to disable the info dialog, I just got an idea. Getting back to you later.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-01
<pitti> Laney: yup, glib is now in; I'm still looking at the hanging udisks2, I can't reproduce that locally
<pitti> ah, now I can actually, with the latest kernel/image
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> hey larsu!
<larsu> pitti: happy Monday! Wie geht's?
<pitti> larsu: gut, danke! wir hatten ein schoenes WE in Dresden. und dir?
<larsu> pitti: schÃ¶n! Mir auch. Viel Familie dieses WE
<larsu> und kaaaaaaalt
<ochosi> larsu: in .at ists auch nicht viel besser (temperaturmÃ¤Ãig), falls dich das trÃ¶stet ;)
<larsu> ochosi: ein bisschen :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, c,a va ?
<pitti> oops -- where is my compose key??
<larsu> lut didrocks!
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<didrocks> hey larsu :)
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien aussi, merci ! nous avons eu un bon week-end a` Dresden
<didrocks> pitti: pas trop court ?
<pitti> didrocks: toujours :)
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© ;)
<pitti> didrocks: mais pendant les vacances Noe:l nous allons avoir beaucoup de temps
<didrocks> certes !
<didrocks> nous, on a jouÃ© Ã  des jeux de sociÃ©tÃ© vendredi soir dans une ONG
<didrocks> nous sommes allÃ©s Ã  un concert de musique classique samedi soir
<didrocks> et j'ai terminÃ© mass effect 3 hier :)
<pitti> :-P c'est grand ! -- qu'est-ce que c'est "ONG" ?
<didrocks> pitti: NPO
<pitti> TLAs!
<pitti> non-profit organization ?
<didrocks> right ;)
<didrocks> like a local group of people, you need to be a member to play in the local
<didrocks> pitti: should I ping back on my systemd patch on upstream ML?
<didrocks> maybe CCing Lennart
<pitti> didrocks: perhaps try on IRC around noon/afternoon first?
<didrocks> pitti: ok, will do then
<pitti> didrocks: but sure, CC'ing him might help too, I don't know
<didrocks> will try IRC first
<willcooke> morning all
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<darkxst> hey larsu
<larsu> hi darkxst
<darkxst> any progress on gtk?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<darkxst> hey didrocks
<larsu> darkxst: progress for getting it in?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<darkxst> larsu, well yes of course ;)
<darkxst> hi seb128
<larsu> darkxst: the theme should be good enough for a first upload, but there are a few other minor issues with 3.14
<larsu> so ya, progress, but not done yet
<seb128> the icons one is a bit annoying
<larsu> next on my list :)
<darkxst> seb128,  yes there are new icons
<seb128> I don't speak about new or old icons
<darkxst> what do you speak of then?
<seb128> but thinks like indicators having wrongly scaled icons
<seb128> or gvim in nautilus' context menu
<didrocks> evening darkxst ;)
<darkxst> seb128, perhaps a theme issue, I'
<darkxst> I've not seen anything like that
<seb128> no, not a theme issue, Debian has the same issue
<ricotz> hello to all of you
<seb128> with updated themes and using the upstream one
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> is there a plan/decision about splitting adwaita-icons-theme like it is done with gnome-icons-theme?
<darkxst> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, hi, did darkxst mentioned this to you?
<seb128> ricotz, he probably mentioned it before, no plan/decision that I know about
<darkxst> I mentioned it a while back, never got an answer though
<seb128> I guess whoever is interested in that new package needs to do the work
<seb128> or I don't see an incensitive from changing from g-i-t as we have it atm
<darkxst> seb128, we would be happy to keep the new package synced from debian
<darkxst> but there are new icons needed for 3.14 that would need to be copied into g-i-t
<seb128> well, as long as it's not installed and nothing in Unity depends on it
<ricotz> seb128, did the ubuntu icon theme gained the needed bits?
<seb128> no
<seb128> what needed bits?
<seb128> did anyone made a list/open a bug?
<ricotz> like e.g. the arrows for combo-boxes
<seb128> no idea what you are talking about
<darkxst> ubuntu icon theme falls-back to gnome for like a 100icons
<seb128> yeah, that's not going to change
<ricotz> darkxst, keeping it in sync would be nice of course
<darkxst> seb128,  have you not noticed missing icons in testing 3.14?
<ricotz> i see, so it seems reasonable to switch depending on adwaita-icon-theme for 3.14
<seb128> darkxst, no, but I didn't test much
<seb128> ricotz, we are not switching anything to a-i-t until it gets the same split as g-i-t if that's the one supperseeding g-i-t
<ricotz> seb128, this is what i am asking, and gnome3 ppa contains a splitted packages
<ricotz> and yeah a-i-t is the replacement for g-i-t
<seb128> do you have a sponsoring request with the changes?
<ricotz> no, since as you said there is plan to pursue this while weirdly no problems occur with g-i-t and gtk 3.14 regarding missing icons
<seb128> ?
<seb128> no, I said I've no clue what issues you are talking about
<ricotz> i mean "no plan"
<seb128> but that if there is nothing buggy there is no need to change
<seb128> if the gtk update is buggy we need to update the icon theme of course
<ricotz> yeah, this is weird since things like arrows should not show up
<seb128> and we need to do it in a way that doesn't regress what we have
<seb128> what arrows?
<ricotz> larsu, hi, did you not run into such issues ^
<ricotz> seb128, the e.g. tiny "down-arrow" on combo-boxes!
<darkxst> seb128, the list arrows in things like dconf editror
<ricotz> anyhow, i need to go, bbl
<larsu> ricotz: what issues? Arrows in list views having the wrong icons? (yes)
<ricotz> larsu, if they are wrong or missing it is related to the icon-theme
<larsu> ricotz: not sure what the issue is. Probably missing, yes
<darkxst> larsu,  there are a number of icons definately missing from g-i-t!
<larsu> I know. Not sure what your point is...
<ricotz> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-14&id=9a127d364f9413f3e7c431c09ff4495f0ac88137
<ricotz> "pan-down-symbolic"
<Sweet5hark> moin
 * Sweet5hark .oO( life isnt fair )
<darkxst> larsu, the point is either need to split a-i-t or copy the missing icons across to g-i-t
<Laney> I copied a couple of icons from a-i-d to <mumble> (humanity?) a while ago
<Laney> -t
<Laney> pan-something ones
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hi ;-)
<Laney> just sneaking through, nothing to see here
<Laney> how's it going?
<mlankhorst> morning
<darkxst> Laney, I'm all for the copying thing, I would prefer to keep a-i-t in sync with debian
<seb128> Laney, good, you? had a good w.e?
<Laney> darkxst: alternatively we could not care about the size (~10mb) :-)
<Laney> seb128: yeah was good, put all of our things in a van and drove them somewhere else and then removed them all
<seb128> Laney, I don't want to go that path (stop carring about adding 10mb packages to the iso)
<seb128> Laney, oh, right, moving ... you are not working this week?
<seb128> what are you doing here?
<darkxst> seb128, stop complaing, upstream was just a rename, you wouldnt add anything to the iso
<seb128> darkxst, ?
<seb128> darkxst, I'm not complaining
 * larsu waves to Laney
<seb128> darkxst, I'm just saying that we are not going to add another 10mb to the iso
<darkxst> seb128, and we need to know if you want to split a-i-t or stick with g-i-t
<seb128> darkxst, I don't care either way, either we copy the missing icons over or we split a-i-t and transition to that
<seb128> up to who does the work I guess
<seb128> it probably makes more sense to split a-i-t
<willcooke> mlankhorst, hey!  I'm going to try and get your Xmir work running today. I might be bothering you with questions :)
<darkxst> seb128, except g-i-t contains a (manual?) list of missing icons
<seb128> darkxst, can't we transition that list to a-i-t?
<mlankhorst> willcooke: ok :P
<darkxst> seb128, sure, but you still need to work out the missing icons either way
<willcooke> mlankhorst, first question - how do I find out what version of Mir I'm running?  I'm using the desktop next image
<mlankhorst> apt-cache policy libmirserver.*; look for the installed one
<willcooke> ok, I'm on 0.8, so that's job #1
<mlankhorst> the archive has the correct versions
 * willcooke upgrades
<willcooke> mlankhorst, and then I use your PPA from LP?  https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<mlankhorst> yeah
<willcooke> cool, thanks mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> install mir-demos after updating
<willcooke> kk
<mlankhorst> after that and installing xserver-xorg-xmir from the ppa switch to vt1 with ctrl alt f1, log in and: sudo stop lightdm; sudo mir_demo_server_shell & sudo Xmir & .. wait a few seconds then run COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu compiz
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> mlankhorst, is compiz being used here as a benchmark, as a way of poking all the bits of XMir/Mir to find gaps?
<mlankhorst> sort of, but in reality it should just spawn a full ubuntu desktop
<willcooke> erk:
<willcooke> dpkg: cycle found while processing triggers:
<willcooke>  chain of packages whose triggers are or may be responsible:
<willcooke>   ureadahead -> ureadahead
<willcooke>  packages' pending triggers which are or may be unresolvable:
<willcooke>   dbus: /etc/dbus-1/system.d
<willcooke>   ureadahead: /etc/init.d: /etc/init
<willcooke> dpkg: error processing package dbus (--configure):
<willcooke>  triggers looping, abandoned
<willcooke> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:226: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed.
<willcooke> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg exited unexpectedly
<mlankhorst> remove ureadahead I guess ?
<willcooke> meh - fixed
<willcooke> did dpkg --configure -a
<mlankhorst> ok
<Laney> what were you doing?
<willcooke> Laney, apt-get upgrade on my desktop next machine
<Laney> vivid to vivid?
<willcooke> yeah
<Laney> what version of ureadahead?
<Laney> apt-cache policy ureadahead
<Laney> seb128: (splitting is probably reasonable I guess)
<willcooke> ureadahead:
<willcooke>   Installed: 0.100.0-16
<willcooke>   Candidate: 0.100.0-17
<willcooke>   Version table:
<willcooke>      0.100.0-17 0
<willcooke>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ vivid/main amd64 Packages
<willcooke>  *** 0.100.0-16 0
<willcooke>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<Laney> yeah I thought so
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ureadahead/0.100.0-17 ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> although we may need to SRU that too, I think
<mlankhorst> won't that break everyone who has ureadahead installed? :p
<Laney> why?
<mlankhorst> if they upgrade
<Laney> why?
<mlankhorst> ironically to fix that bug :P
<mlankhorst> dno
<willcooke> if they have the "broken" version installed, then in order to install the fixed version, dpkg will bail out first
<willcooke> ?
<willcooke> (after doing a --configure -a and re-runnng upgrade it's all ok)
<Laney> It doesn't happen on every upgrade
<Laney> I think we should SRU it though because there's a decent chance release upgrade paths will invoke the old trigger
<mlankhorst> ok
<Laney> maybe someone could look at that this week (/me nominates the bug)
<Laney> otherwise I'll look at it next
<Laney> speaking of which, got to go buy a coffee table, laters
<Laney> seb128: I think splitting and migrating to a-i-t is probably the way to go btw
<Laney> sorry darkxst if we can't keep it in sync, you know it pains me too :'(
<seb128> Laney, +1
<Laney> bye!
<willcooke> cya Laney
<seb128> Laney, have fun, see you later
<darkxst> Laney, for the sake of a few icons, and a list that still needs to be maintained? seems just as easy to copy them over
<didrocks> seb128: if you run nautilus <dir> from the terminal, do you have it appearing behind it?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<willcooke> balls.  Run out of space on my machine
<willcooke> popey, did you buy a new SDD for your Thinkpad?
<popey> not recently
<popey> creative have one on offer right now
 * willcooke googles
<popey> http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/store-ssd-factory-recertified?cm_mmc=affiliation-_-null-_-null-_-null
<willcooke> thanks popey
<popey> i have two in mine
<willcooke> blimes - thats cheap
<popey> if you want lots of space you could put an mSATA SSA in (I have a 240GB one of those in) and some spinning rust
<popey> then you get the best of both worlds
<willcooke> I think 240GB will be enough for now (I hope)
<popey> yeah, i have 2x240 in mine
<popey> still run low
<popey> <- hoarder
<willcooke> is one of those an mSATA?
<willcooke> yes
<popey> yes
<willcooke> you just said it was, :/
<willcooke> sorz
<willcooke> hm - it says that disk isnt compatible with my X220
 * willcooke remembers something about 7mm drives not fitting
<willcooke> no, 7mm drives should fit fine
<didrocks> willcooke: those are the ones which fits: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-830-Series-MZ-7PC256N-Internal/dp/B005T3GPXY
<willcooke> 500 USD ?!?!?!?!?!?
<didrocks> willcooke: I just picked the one I bought 2 years ago (but it was way cheaper at the time :p)
<didrocks> willcooke: at least, you can have the correct size now
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thx didrocks
<didrocks> yw
<didrocks> I remember having spent some times as well on the size to ensure it's fitting the x220 :)
 * didrocks goes for a run
<pitti> didrocks: hah, j'ai vu la premie`re episode de Doctor Who :)
<pitti> ou -- le docteur qui :)
<Trevinho> ricotz: hi, why mir support in xorg edgers mesa is disabled? It doesn't look to fail here (patch and compilation)...
<ricotz> Trevinho, hi, historical reason to avoind maintaining this patch
<Trevinho> ricotz: isn't it quite stable now?
<ricotz> Trevinho, not sure, i am not very fond about mir
<ricotz> will try to enable it again next time
<Trevinho> thanks
<desrt> Laney: you (temporarily?) assigned a bug to me... was that a mistake?
<larsu> desrt: morning :)
<desrt> good morning
<larsu> remember your PrimaryConnectionType thing? Looks like it's not being used
<desrt> ya.  someone closed my bug on the dash as 'opinion'
<didrocks> pitti: oh? from the new series I guess, did you like it?
<desrt> as in, it's only my opinion that doing 400 dbus calls and a bunch of signal subscriptsions to bring up an entire network manager tree worth of devices and monitor it in order to determine a single boolean value is overkill
<pitti> didrocks: yes, and yes I did :)
<larsu> desrt: bug #1386109 ?
<ubot5> bug 1386109 in network-manager (Ubuntu RTM) "[TOPBLOCKER] com.ubuntu.connectivity1.NetworkingStatus.Status is always online" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386109
<didrocks> pitti: sweet! You will see, it's getting better and better (especially after the 6th episod)
<larsu> desrt: there's a new thing called com.ubuntu.connectivity1...
<desrt> fwiw, i think the property added to NM is wrong
<larsu> supplied by indicator-network
<desrt> i don't know if the connectivity thing is right
<desrt> but they're not using that either :(
<larsu> and according to that bug, it always tells apps its online
<larsu> desrt: why?
<desrt> they're treating the issue as strictly a qt bug
<desrt> ie: fix the race/deadlock in qt and the problem is 'solved'
<desrt> fine by me.... *shrug*
<desrt> fwiw, though, i think my patch in NM is bogus
<desrt> i should maybe discuss that with dcbw
<larsu> why?
<desrt> i found out something really neat the other day: android sends a field in its dhcp reply to people who tether: ANDROID_METERED
<larsu> if you fix the deadlock in qt, you still have the dash talking to nm directly
<larsu> rendering all of indicator-network pointless
<desrt> ie: treating a "802-11-wireless" or whatever device type as being "not on 3g" is a bad heuristic
<desrt> since we have more information -- we're just not using it
<larsu> desrt: that is _seriously_ nice. `apt-get update` ran in the background and used my monthly data allowence the other day
<desrt> i'm gonna file the upstream NM bug now, in fact
 * desrt noticed that field in debugging output of NM the other day while hacking bluetooth stuff
<larsu> what kind of property do you propose?
<larsu> ConnectedToSomethingFast?
<desrt> IsMetered? 
<larsu> not every 3g connection is metered...
<desrt> well that's android's problem
<desrt> i don't know why my phone sends ANDROID_METERED
<larsu> but ya, that's a much better heuristic than is-wifi?
<desrt> maybe there is a switch somewhere to control that
<desrt> since i have an unlimited plan...
<larsu> it's definitely very cool
<desrt> (although, strictly speaking it is metered.... they slow me down after 10GB of usage)
<desrt> so probably i still prefer that it doesn't do updates...
<larsu> desrt: there's a setting for warning you once you cross some treshold
<larsu> *threshold
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740982
<ubot5> Gnome bug 740982 in general "Do something with 'ANDROID_METERED' dhcp field" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> i heard some crackrock about building a list of known wifi mac addresses of phones in order to deal with this problem
<desrt> this is clearly going to be a better approach....
<larsu> wouldn't that be kind of a big list.......
<cyphermox> seb128: hey
<desrt> cyphermox: remember that primaryconnectiontype property?  starting to have second thoughts there....
<desrt> and apparently nobody in ubuntu will use it anyway...
<desrt> i just filed #740982 upstream -- let's see how that goes.... but maybe it's worth dropping that patch in ubuntu
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> seb128: can I subscribe desktop team (or desktop-bugs?) to the new build-depends from NM?  it's libteam, libndp, and jansson for their MIRs
<seb128> cyphermox, desktop-bugs yes
<cyphermox> seb128: ack
<seb128> that's the team we use for packages bugs
<cyphermox> oops
<cyphermox> seems I don't have that kind of access
<seb128> cyphermox, done it for you
<cyphermox> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> dpm, pitti, hey, vivid translations are open/active, who can/should enable the langpack cron job?
<dpm> seb128, I generally ping wgrant to enable the exports, and then pitti sets up the langpacks
<seb128> dpm, let me ping wgrant then ;-)
<seb128> dpm, or do you know where to check if those are already enabled?
<didrocks> seb128: do you know what is used nowdays for mime types association, I don't see mimeapps.list anymore
<seb128> didrocks, you mean?
<didrocks> seb128: IIRC in the past (but didn't check since 2010), mime types association were defined in a mimeapps.list file
<didrocks> (which was compiled from the available apps)
<seb128> didrocks, /usr/share/applications/defaults;list
<seb128> .list
<seb128> if you mean our default list
<seb128> or do you mean user ones?
<didrocks> oh right, that one
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> yw
<seb128> didrocks, user config is ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list though
<seb128> those are changes over the defaults
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, hence the confusion :)
<seb128> with added/removed sections
<seb128> dpm, I guess it's on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+language-packs ?
<dpm> seb128, sorry, I was otp. Yeah. Generally I keep the schedule here and I file an RT to get the exports going: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
<seb128> dpm, thanks, I pinged wgrant on #ubuntu-devel, I can file a rt if you want/that's preferred though
<dpm> seb128, if pinging works, that works well for me
<seb128> let's see what he replies
<dpm> I guess we cannot drop any released off the schedule, so we should probably do the exports on the Friday
<dpm> or actually on the Tuesday and move the utopic ones around
<pitti> dpm: making a note, I'll build them tomorrow
<dpm> pitti, yeah, let's sync up to see if we can get the exports on the schedule first
 * willcooke_ -> EOD.
<willcooke_> o/
<Laney> desrt: I assigned that to the canonical-desktop-team, you probably got mailed through that
<desrt> ahh
<desrt> launchpad writes bad email :)
<popey> seb128: would you say bug 1298297 is assigned to the right place?
<ubot5> bug 1298297 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Shutting lid on laptop locks the computer, even though action is set to none" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298297
<popey> or is it in fact unity as ali1234 suggests?
<ali1234> it's both really
<ali1234> i mean they both want to lock the screen
<ali1234> you;re presumably disabling the unity lock screen but the lightdm one is still there, and you no longer have a control panel for it
<ali1234> we had this exact same problem in xubuntu with lightdm + light-locker
<seb128> popey, ali1234, is that still an issue? it's likely unity-settings-daemon and a bug like that was fixed on friday
<ali1234> no idea, i use xubuntu...
<seb128> well, by default logind/systemd suspend on lid close
<seb128> then it's up to something to set an inhibitor
<seb128> in unity/gnome it's unity/gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> not sure in xubuntu
<seb128> then the locking is up to e.g unity/gnome-screensaver
<ali1234> yes in xubuntu we had to add a patch to inhibit logind
<larsu> add a patch to what?
<ali1234> to light-locker
<ali1234> bug 1303736
<ubot5> bug 1303736 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<ali1234> actually i think it was patched in xfce4-power-manager
<ochosi> yup, it was xfpm
<popey> seb128: fixed already? yay!
<seb128> popey, well, feel free to test/confirm if the fix works
<larsu> seb128: any known bugs about mouse input events not being sent to apps?
 * larsu is just seeing that...
<larsu> anything in the shell works (launcher, dash, panel), but not in the windows itself. window management doesn't work either
<seb128> larsu, not that I know no
<WhiteIntel> Hello can anyone tel mel a remote desktop solution that is working out of the box with user session handling, good performance, easy to install?
<RAOF> WhiteIntel: AFAIK, âDesktop Sharing Preferencesâ is installed by default, works, and is reasonable.
<RAOF> WhiteIntel: Together with âRemote desktop viewerâ (aka vinagre)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-02
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> pitti: hey! yeah, I think we have to blacklist nodm then, I'm unsure about the kdm case still, let me try to install it on my vm
<didrocks> as the binary matches
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<pitti> didrocks: ah, so you already saw my CC:s
<pitti> didrocks: also, seems Lennart was on a review/reply sprint :)
<pitti> didrocks: so you got a very good review already for your machine-id patches, that's great! :-)
<didrocks> pitti: oh nice! I'm not to that point yet :)
<larsu> morning didrocks, pitti!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<pitti> hey larsu
<didrocks> pitti: tried to install kdm on this vm, no issue, all states are what is expected
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I asked for a systemctl status, we didn't get that yet
<pitti> didrocks: the nodm issue is quite clear, I think
<pitti> but not kdm
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, let me see if I can find a way for nodm than the blacklist
<pitti> didrocks: btw, could this grow an autopkgtest perhaps? installing three DMs, and then selecting between them?
<didrocks> pitti: I guess so, it will involve dpkg-reconfigure and such (and maybe testing the 3 postinst at the same time), do we have examples of autopkgtests with this?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, oui, un peu fatiguÃ© mais Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: j'ai dormi trÃ¨s bien (alors seulement Ã  5h30 :) )
<pitti> didrocks: you can install packages during the test with apt-get, or test-depend on all three of them and then perhaps change /e/X/d-d-m and call dpkg-reconfigure, or cause the generators to re-run and check the result, or so
<pitti> didrocks: you can also reboot to verify that the DM actually starts up (systemd's boot-and-services autopkgtest does that for lightdm)
<pitti> didrocks: but even if it isn't a full system integration test with reboot, merely changing the config file and seeing that the generators are as expected should be fine
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, the nodm thing is quite clear, and we'll wait for the kdm bug (moreinfo)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, systemctl status is the only way to see what happensâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: on the integration testing -> will try to do something, but polishing the other patch on Lennart's feedback first
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it's low-priority
<didrocks> funny that nodm ship an insserv.conf.d file, but doesn't check for default display-manager
<pitti> didrocks: also, I guess this whole generator will go away in jessie+1 again once the *dm packages get fixed properly?
<didrocks> pitti: the insserv patch will
<didrocks> not the other one (as long as we have /e/X/d-d-m
<didrocks> )
<didrocks> but the other one is less "magic", it's just making display-manager.service matching /e/X/d-d-m
<didrocks> (and don't mask units)
<didrocks> pitti: the issue is that if someone just systemctl enable --force <dm_service>, as it's not updating /e/X/d-d-m  (maybe we should) for dms, it's not really taken into account.
<didrocks> as the generator will override this next round
<pitti> didrocks: yeah :/ too many knobs
<didrocks> but well, in the past, people already dpkg-reconfigure to make /e/X/d-d-m piloting which dms to start, so it's not a big change
<didrocks> pitti: agreed, I wonder if we should drop some of those support in ubuntu
<didrocks> (I know, not really possible in debian)
<pitti> but I think /e/X/ddm should always win, as that happens to be Debian's main config for DM selection
<didrocks> yeah, that's the case now
<didrocks> or you can remove it, and systemctl controls the default then
<didrocks> (once all units are transitionned)
<pitti> didrocks: and that's fine; but it shouldn't cause your only installed DM to not run, so that must be something else?
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> anyway, let's blacklist nodm for now, and wait on the kdm's bug some feedback
<pitti> didrocks: if you need anythign else aside from status, please followup to the bug
<pitti> and we should probably downgrade it, as it's not reproducible
<didrocks> pitti: I'm juts doing that
<didrocks> downgrade?
<pitti> didrocks: Control: severity -1 important
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> Control: tag -1 moreinfo (but I think it already has that)
<didrocks> pitti: hum, still don't get the systemctl status on last answer, so let's see if other reports the same thing with kdm
<pitti> didrocks: meh, yes
<pitti> didrocks: do you want to respond again, or should I?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm doing it
<didrocks> done
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, speaking about status, I've that
<seb128> â NetworkManager-wait-online.service loaded failed failed Network Manager Wait O
<seb128> is that expected/something to debug?
<pitti> seb128: hm, I think I got that yesterday, not today; sometimes my wifi is slow to connect
<didrocks> seb128: maybe running systemctl status NetworkManager-wait-online.service as root will give you more info
<didrocks> (journald output at the end)
<didrocks> (success for me btw)
<pitti> and yes, sometimes it takes more than one minute on my system (the timeout in that unit is 30s)
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> ah right --timeout=30
<pitti> but this unit looks broken anyway
<pitti> WantedBy=network.target â sohuldn't that be network-online.target?
<didrocks>  pitti hum, his kdm.service is masked :/
<pitti> like in systemd-networkd-wait-online.service
<didrocks> pitti: I'm having hard time on parsing this network systemd wiki page on freedesktop
<didrocks> so unsure :)
<pitti> seb128: anyway, it's worth reporting eiter way; we don't want degraded units if we can avoid it
<seb128> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9341619/
<pitti> if possible, NM should be taught to get faster
<seb128> pitti, reported against what? nm?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<seb128> k
<seb128> danke
<pitti> my mobile needs < 1 s for connecting to my wifi, my laptop some 50 s
<pitti> not sure how that behaves for other people, but over the last few cycles NM became really slow for wifis
 * pitti had to bump the timeouts in the autopkgtest at leaset twice
<seb128> it seems to vary a lot here
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, so you think the issue there is that it hit the timeout?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<didrocks> seb128: should be, I don't have that issue. Bad that the output debug doesn't state it explicitely :/
<pitti> well, unless nm-online -q --timeout=30 is differently broken of course
<didrocks> maybe dropping -q would helpâ¦
<pitti> yeah, I think this shoudl drop the -q
<seb128> should I edit the service and wait for next time it happens and see what's the issue?
<didrocks> pitti: nm-online --timeout=30
<didrocks> -> no output, exit 0 in the success case
<didrocks> so, maybe we should really drop it to have more info in case of failure
<pitti> seb128: yeah, and correlate it to whether it's already online or not right after boot
 * didrocks is puzzled on Eric's answer
<pitti> seb128: you can play with the timeout, too; i. e. bumping it to 60 should make it succeed, 5 should make it fail always?
<seb128> pitti, k, I'm going to try that, thanks
<pitti> seb128: cheers!
<seb128> I booted my laptop at a coffee place yesterday and it took ages to connect, so it's likely the timeout
<pitti> it's mostly a cosmetical issue anyway (nothing depends on network-online.target, and that unit sorts wrongly anyway)
<pitti> so I think it's ok for that particular unit to fail especially on a laptop, but it should be fixed anyway (wants dependency, and dropping -q)
<pitti> and maybe bumping the timeout to reflect NM's/dhcp-client's slowness
<seb128> k
<seb128> that makes sense
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: did you notice other problems?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I didn't notice much difference either
<seb128> which I guess is good ;-)
<pitti> it is :)
<pitti> didrocks: so maybe a strange effect of having a separate /usr?
<pitti> didrocks: and the generator runs before mounting it, or so?
<didrocks> pitti: there is nothing that I'm using on /usr though
<didrocks> pitti: I just removed all dms but kdm here
 * didrocks reboot
<didrocks> pitti: the only thing I can think of is a trailing \n on /e/X/d-d-m
<didrocks> but I'm stripping it :/
<didrocks> hum, worksâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: systemd-delta output or some ls -l /etc/... perhaps? there might be some unexpected symlinks somewhere?
 * pitti -> doctor appointment, bbl
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, doing that
<seb128> hum, another libpam-systemd apport report during an upgrade, are those common issues?
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> We should have an "office" Christmas party in here before Christmas.
<willcooke> )
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> â
<seb128> hehe
<pitti> seb128: no, not at all; report svp?
 * pitti hugs didrocks, isn't debugging fun
 * didrocks hugs pitti back, yeah, I have no clue on that one, I'm implementing Lennart's proposals meanwhile and will appreciate if you can have a look before resubmitting :)
<seb128> pitti, bah, apport says it can't report because the package is not installed, which is not true
<pitti> le huh?
<seb128> pitti, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/38476d4e-7a05-11e4-80de-fa163e4ccdf2
<seb128> not very useful
<pitti> seb128: that's bug 1372193
<seb128> pitti, the log has http://paste.ubuntu.com/9342363/
<ubot5> bug 1372193 in pam (Ubuntu) "package libpam-systemd:amd64 208-8ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 128 in pam-auth-update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372193
<pitti> seb128: yep, exactly the same
<pitti> that's slangasek's
<pitti> seb128: he posted some questions there, if you currently have that problem answering those might be helpful
<seb128> pitti, just did
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> we got the first instance of this in natty already, but then just two duplicates
<pitti> so it seems old, but hard to reproduce
<seb128> k
<seb128> I've hit a few times on vivid
<seb128> I wonder if it doesn't happen at every systemd update for me
<pitti> seb128: can you attach /etc/pam.d/common-session as well, for completeness?
<seb128> pitti, done
<pitti> seb128: btw, should we re-enable apport for vivid now?
<pitti> (LP crash bugs, I mean)
<pitti> I'm about to do an upload for some fixes
<seb128> pitti, your call, I don't have a strong opinion on it
<seb128> pitti, I've the feeling that nowadays we have few people keep up with launchpad and that reports create more noise than they are useful
<pitti> ok; I'll leave it off for now, still a bit early
<pitti> seb128: yeah, same here
 * didrocks rebase on new improved systemd logic now for error handling then
<seb128> pitti, good news is that I can reproduce that bug easily, I just need to dpkg -i an old systemd and use update-manager to upgrade
<seb128> just tried
<didrocks> pitti: mind giving a look before I update the ML?
<didrocks> http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/tmp/systemd-machine-id-commit/0005-machine-id-commit-add-man-pages.patch
<didrocks> http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/tmp/systemd-machine-id-commit/0002-Add-a-machine_id_commit-call-to-commit-on-disk-a-tra.patch
<didrocks> http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/tmp/systemd-machine-id-commit/0001-Factorize-some-machine-id-setup-functions-to-be-reus.patch
<didrocks> pitti: forget the 0005-, this one didn't need change, wrong paste :)
<didrocks> pitti: already noticed, I need to remove +#include <linux/magic.h> and +#include <sys/statfs.h> from 0002
<pitti> didrocks: 1 LGTM
<pitti> didrocks: 2> the latter will "be" mounted ...
<pitti> didrocks: and "get reset" at each bot
<pitti> boot
<pitti> didrocks: latter -> later
<didrocks> fixing
<pitti> didrocks: later, "this can commit the transient machine-id to disk in a race free manner"
 * pitti apologizes for being a grammar fetishish
<pitti> fetishist
<didrocks> ahah, it's good, don't worry :)
<pitti> I have a good excuse, both of my parents were teachers, my mother was a German teacher :)
<didrocks> heh :)
<pitti> didrocks: Lennart asked for the if (isempty(root)) thing?
<pitti> i. e. strappenda doesn't treat NULL as ""?
<pitti> or using strappenda(root || "", "/etc/machine-id") is too magic?
<didrocks> pitti: why later btw? I'm referencing /etc/machine-id?
<pitti> didrocks: "becomes rw later"
<pitti> didrocks: as opposed to "the latter will be..."
<didrocks> pitti: I did that at first, and noticed that he was doing the isempty() stuff just some line below with the same logic
<pitti> (which is a reference to a previous enumeration)
<didrocks> pitti: I thought they wanted to avoid in the common case to have the strappenda() call
<pitti> didrocks: ah, good, then keep that
<didrocks> pitti: ah ok, indeed :)
<pitti> didrocks: "was an independent mount" â what's that?
<pitti> as opposed to being a slave bind mount or so?
<didrocks> pitti: like /etc/machine-id is a mount point (not /etc)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I was wondering about the "independent"; so perhaps s/independent mount/mount point/?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, sounds more explanatory, changing
<ogra_> independent is the "post revolutionary mountpoint" indeed
<pitti> ogra_: no more slave mounts!
<didrocks> :)
<ogra_> !
<pitti> didrocks: S_ISREG(st.st_mode) -> why that additional check, as long as you can read from it?
<didrocks> ogra_: well, that's why I make-rslave later on :p
<pitti> didrocks: ah, probably safer; it could be a socket which blocks
<didrocks> pitti: exactly, for sockets
<didrocks> or dirs
<pitti> didrocks: why do you sometimes use log_error_errno() and sometimes just log_error with %m? (I don't know the former yet, and what the difference is)
<didrocks> pitti: that's part of the modifications, see http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-December/025783.html (near the end)
<didrocks> they introduced that between my first patch and now
<pitti> didrocks: machine_id_commit() will run in a separate binary, not in pid 1, right?
<didrocks> pitti: right, patch 3 introduces a binary for it
<pitti> didrocks: oh, log_errror_errno() gets the "r" as arg, I see
<didrocks> yeah, and seems it's thread-safe compared to strerro(r)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, I'm done complaining
<didrocks> I looked at the #define pragma, but a little bit too magical to me to understand why this one is threadsafe where the other isn't
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the suggestions, just wrapping that and sending :)
<didrocks> pitti: hum, any idea why the dates are all screwed up in my format-patch?
<didrocks> Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
<pitti> didrocks: uh, no; they are usually correct for me
<didrocks> pitti: ah, I have the answer in the man, no worry :)
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, I wonder if there is not really a problem with systemd/n-m, I've had 3 boots now where I needed to turn the switch on and off to be able to connect
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9343059/ ... not much more without the -q
<willcooke> seb128, I have the school run @ 1520 UTC.  I should be back in time for the weekly meeting, but if I'm not would you mind getting it started?
<seb128> willcooke, sure can do
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> seb128: that happened since 217? (you didn't complain on 215 about having to switch on and off)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I didn't notice it before today
<seb128> not sure when I rebooted previous, a week ago or so I guess
<seb128> I can go back to 215 to test if you want
<didrocks> seb128: that and try to boot with upstart as well
<didrocks> just to ensure it's a systemd regression
<seb128> k
<seb128> brb
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, yeah, it's 217 that creates the issue, and it creates it for upstart as well as systemd used as init
<seb128> could be udev or something
<seb128> with 215 I'm online before unity7 UI is done loading
<seb128> with 217 I need to turn network off and on other it never connects
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: sorry for causing confusion when juggling with bug ids when should have stayed in bed and fight of the cold ...
<Sweet5hark1> s/of/off/
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, no worry, do you feel better btw?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: yes, today Im ok again.
 * seb128 doesn't believe in staying in bed and doing nothing when having a cold, prefer to keep a bit busy to get his mind off the cold :p
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, great :-)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: well,  I also did https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/gitweb?p=core.git;a=commitdiff;h=66fc18538b544d62bc51f2fc485cf997433ff990;hp=ef5051b59270b324968cb91304fb25f622b80329 ff. -- making one of the most fundamental base container classes of LibreOffice Writer a template class etc.
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: we will see in LibreOffice 4.5 how badly I broke stuff with that ;)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: I can tell you though a 34" 21:9 ultrawide screen at your workplace helps fighting off the flu quicker though ;D
<seb128> hehe
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: updated bug 1386170 for SRU-foo. While doing that, I noted there is no customer feedback yet (see comment 11) ...
<ubot5> bug 1386170 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice startup center shorcut broken" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386170
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, looking
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, looks good, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: we can avoid hardcoding, see my answer from Michael's questions
<pitti> didrocks: but yeah, this is highly nontrivial, and at this point I'm not sure any more whether we really want to inflict this upon ourselves
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. this turns bugs which are really in the *dm packages into systemd bugs, and apparently doesn't catch some more exotic configs?
<didrocks> pitti: well, remember that we did this in reaction of other bugs like "multiple dms starts due to systemd"
<didrocks> or none if the config isn't in sync
<pitti> yeah, I know
<pitti> rock <-> hard place
<didrocks> pitti: let's try the fix I proposed, I think that would help
<didrocks> (meaning, touching less if /e/X/d-d-m isn't correct)
<didrocks> pitti: btw, apt-get install nodm fails
<didrocks> invoke-rc.d seems to try to call systemctl enable without an unit file
<deepdreamer> hello, i have question about updates. If i use lts version of ubuntu (14.04), will i receive updates for unity that are not just security updates (but also bugfixes) after 14.10 was released?
<deepdreamer> just want to know whether i have to abandon lts (14.04) to have newest version of unity 7
<didrocks> pitti: the nodedm case isn't due to my generator
<didrocks> pitti: the insserv generator isn't called on it
<didrocks> and look at the status, it's not masked
<pitti> didrocks: hm, so why did it break with 217-1 then?
<didrocks> pitti: maybe something else in systemd? I'm unsure, but it's clearly not called or I'm missing somethingâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, did you see my note about the connection issue being a regression from 215->217 and impact upstart boots as well as systemd ones? need more info from me on that one?
 * didrocks rechecks again
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks for investigating; the generator seemed to be the most probable cause at first, sorry for the noise then
 * seb128 downgrades to system 215 meanwhile
 * xnox loves how 217 at times finds a dependency loop and removes units and does not start them at all =)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I have no clue about this
<pitti> seb128: perhaps rather downgrade udev for now, to verify that?
<seb128> didrocks, do you know what changed between those versions and maybe if I should try to revert changes?
<didrocks> pitti: let me reconfirm again, but I'm printing at startup of the function and the insserv isn't called
<didrocks> seb128: I'm on another urgent issue for now (with as well debates), so preferring to concentrate on this
<seb128> dpm, hey, can you get https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/ubuntu-ui-extras to have a bumped priority/to be visible for ubuntu touch translators?
<seb128> didrocks, well, the network issue impacts vivid users on upstart (e.g not only people opting in for systemd), but ok
<didrocks> *sigh*
<seb128> k, meeting is in a bit more than hour, going for exercice and then I'm going to try to downgrade udev only
<seb128> but that might be after the meeting
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> seb128: yeah, please file a bug to keep track of what you downgraded/experimented with, and what happens after booting
<pitti> seb128: i. e. whether NM comes up, NM syslog, etc.
<seb128> k
<pitti> and if it's udev, we also need to compare udevadm info --export-db between 215 and 217, etc.
<pitti> seb128: I'm not aware of any big changes in udev, so I'm afraid for now I don't have an idea where to start; we need some logs from your machine
<pitti> seb128: enjoy the exercise!
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks, I'm out for an hour getting some exercice before night/meeting time, but I get those info when I'm back
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> I assume I'm the only one so far to report those issues?
<seb128> if that's specific to my config that's probably not a big issue
<didrocks> nothing on debian bts
<seb128> still I would like to get to the bottom of it, so let's see what info I can get
<pitti> seb128: yes, I didn't get any bug reports or IRC pings from someone else, and it's obviously working here
<pitti> seb128: yes, I'd like to debug that too
<didrocks> pitti: so, I added log_warning("checking %s", de->d_name); after http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/tree/debian/patches/insserv.conf-generator.patch#n428
<didrocks> pitti: I only have gdm3 and kdm printing, where the directory contains as well nodm and rpcbind
<funky> i want to enable compiz fusion in my ubuntu. i downloaded and installed all the necessary tools and plugins. yet it is not working. pls help
<Guest55607>  working. pls help
<Guest55607>  i want to enable compiz fusion in my ubuntu. i downloaded and installed all the necessary tools and plugins. yet it is not working. pls help
<Guest55607> anybody there??
<didrocks> Guest55607: !topic
<didrocks> (For support please join #ubuntu)
<Guest55607> but nobody is replying to my question there
<didrocks> pitti: oh, maybe it's the generator with a silent return code !=0, let me try :)
<didrocks> pitti: that would explain everything then: others dms are not iterated over and so, not inserted under the x-display-manager target
<Guest55607> helooo
<didrocks> larsu: I think I have an issue with strappenda actually
<didrocks> defaultdm_unit_path = strappenda(SYSTEM_DATA_UNIT_PATH, "/", default_dm, ".service");
<didrocks> with static const char *default_dm = NULL;
<didrocks> (cached outside the function)
<didrocks> and _cleanup_free_ char *defaultdm_unit_path = NULL; from within the function
<didrocks> I'm getting a double free corruption if I let that instruction
<larsu> how does strappenda know that you pass it 4 arguments? (I assume it's a vararg function?)
<larsu> ah, it's a macro that inlines __VA_ARGS__ into an array. Neat.
<didrocks> yeah #define strappenda(a, ...)                                       \
<larsu> didrocks: anyhow, don't free() something you allocated with alloca
<didrocks> larsu: I don't free anything
<didrocks> at least, not explicitely :
<larsu> didrocks: _cleanup_free_ marks it for free()ing
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> larsu: ahhhhh, making sense, I thought it was preparing it
<larsu> didrocks: yep, welcome to c99 :)
<didrocks> larsu: I need to read this one day :)
<didrocks> larsu: thanks a lot!
<larsu> it's pretty cool, but most projects don't make use of it because they want to work on !gccc
<larsu> *gcc
<didrocks> pitti: FYI, so that was part of the cause, I'll add my fix now ^
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, I betâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I faintly remember asking about strappenda() getting along with NULL strings :)
<pitti> didrocks: great!
 * didrocks rebuilds, retests, etc.
<larsu> pitti: probably not, the macro calls strlen() on the strings
<dpm> seb128, done, ubuntu-ui-extras has now the same priority (8500) as ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<GunnarHj> pitti: ubuntu-docs was just built in utopic-proposed, so I think I've done my part before the langpacks update.
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  2 15:31:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic:
<seb128> willcooke, hey ;-)
<willcooke> Roll Call:  attente_, desrt, didrocks, FJKong, larsu, mlankhorst, qengho, seb128, Sweet5hark1, tkamppeter
<didrocks> hey
<Sweet5hark1> heya
<willcooke> Sorry I'm late all, had to do the school run
<qengho> dang!
<willcooke> attente_, hey, are you ready to roll, or shall we come back to you?
<seb128> o/
<willcooke> in the interests of brevity, lets come back to attente_ and move on to desrt
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: desrt
<attente_> gdk-mir backend:
<attente_> some investigation into multiple window apps, need support from mir for surface positioning, might not be available till jan
<attente_> fix a bug with text selection
<attente_> er. sorry
<willcooke> :)
<attente_> add a hack for making menus and transient dialogs clickable
<willcooke> nw
<willcooke> this is great, thanks attente_
<willcooke> desrt, you want to go?
<desrt> sure
<desrt> did a lot of running around, meetings, bug-filing about missing mir features for desktop
<desrt> fixed semi-serious GMainContext bug (thanks to ppc64le and Laney for finding it)
<desrt> finished off GVariant vector serialisation work (see https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/log/?h=wip/gvariant-kdbus for info)
<desrt> still a lot more GVariant work to do to prepare for kdbus -- follow the branch linked above
<desrt> starting on internal cleanup of GBytes (GVariant's memory tracking structure)
<desrt> (fin)
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Ubuntu developer desktop:
<didrocks> * Some reviews and fixes for jayatana (appmenu integration for java applications) to be integrated by default on ubuntu. Need upstream to put a last fix and cut a tarball.
<didrocks> * Started discussion on pip/rubygem with sudo
<didrocks> Bluez:
<didrocks> * Put back packages to the transition ppas to have them built on all archs
<didrocks> * Tested with Mathieu that bluez5 + pulseaudio integration is working
<didrocks> * Started investigating some of the package transitions (bluemon, blueman, â¦) The good news is that most of them don't need anything!
<didrocks> Systemd:
<didrocks> * Fix using generators how default DM are handled and have only one started, being or not migrated to systemd
<didrocks> * Get previous week patch (for empty machine-id) feedbacks + done some modifications. Waiting for a rereview
<didrocks> * Started to look X failsafe handling and possible implementation using systemd services
<didrocks> EOF
<willcooke> sounds like bluez is moving forwards nicely
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> didrocks, any idea how many potential names we had for the UDTC ?
<willcooke> *have
<didrocks> willcooke: I would say like 20-25, I did repost on g+ for the second week of the contest
<willcooke> wow - that's really good
<didrocks> not a lot of +1 on any name though, we will have to vote ourself I guess :)
<willcooke> haha!
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> FJKong, are you around atm?  We can come back to you if not
<FJKong> Dash pinyin progress: coding for converting Chinese character to pinyin
<FJKong> tgenerate a mapping table between PinYin and character
<FJKong> splite Chinese character (ignoring english words)
<FJKong> get all candidate lis
<FJKong> all about pinyin thing
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> nice progress there, thanks
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> hey!
<larsu> more work on the gtk theme, the blockers should be gone now, but there's still some work left
<larsu> (e.g. highlighting the current tab for willcooke ;) )
<seb128> do you have a mp up with the current work? do you consider it enough for a first landing?
<seb128> (we should get it at least in the ppa with gtk)
<larsu> seb128: I want to land it in lockstep with gtk and need to sort out the icon issue before that
<seb128> k
<larsu> which brings me to that point: I hate the xdg icon spec
<seb128> well, we have gtk in the desktop ppa, we can put the theme there as well
<seb128> :-/
<larsu> a recent gtk change made some svg icons in menus larger (calendar, gvim in the dash)
<larsu> seb128: sure, we can do that
<seb128> cool
<larsu> also fixed an issue in gsettings (no changed events were sent)
<willcooke> larsu, that tab highlighting works nicely for gedit but for gnome-terminal I find it confusing - by brain inverts the logic for which is the current tab for some reason.  I'll have a play with colours and such
<larsu> willcooke: we could override tabs for each app, but I'd rather not have more app-specific theming
<larsu> (fin)
<willcooke> larsu, agreed.  I'll have a play and see if I can reach a happy medium
<willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: mlankhorst
<willcooke> mlankhorst, lots of Xmir work this week :)
 * qengho cheers.
<willcooke> hm, mlankhorst must be afk, he was here a moment ago.
<willcooke> nevermind, we can come back
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * done: new flash update. new chromium upstream released, but not worth new U package. thanksgiving.
<qengho> * in-progress: more Cr/mir hacking. upstream Ozone interface churns *so much*. Angry qengho.
<qengho> some hardware problems, too, but you can't help with that.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> qengho, did you see my mail re: Hi DPI - when you get a moment please drop me a reply - but not super urgent
<qengho> willcooke: Haven't seen it. Will search.
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> (4 days week, vac on thurday)
<seb128> â¢ discussions about how to handle .desktop renames for dbus activable softwares
<seb128> â¢ debugged issues with qtcreator/sdk/ssh/click publishing to the device on vivid
<seb128> â¢ spent some time playing with mir/mir_server to get more familiar with that part of the stack
<seb128> â¢ spent some time playing with systemd and ran into some bugs
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-system-settings for touch
<seb128> â small reviews for others
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ usual share of desktop related bugs triages and discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> - still work on 4.3.4/4.2.7 SRUs and bugs 1386170, bug 1342175 and the 4.2 Calc sort mess (to many bug ids to list)
<Sweet5hark1> - followed upstream discussion on possible 4.2.8 release
<Sweet5hark1> - finally released first build of 4.4.0~beta1 for vivid to prereleases ppa after much patching and tweaking
<Sweet5hark1> - 4.4.0~beta1 l10n is still FTBFS (not urgent though, betas have incomplete l10n anyway)
<Sweet5hark1> - upstream discussion on baseline/compiler update for more C++11 for LibreOffice 4.5 ff.
<Sweet5hark1> - upstream discussion on folding URE to libreoffice-core
<Sweet5hark1> - some coordination of upcoming LibreOffice events: Hamburg (end December -- 31c3), Brussels (begin February 2015, FOSDEM), Gran Canaria (March), Cambridge (May)
<Sweet5hark1> - clarified REFERENCEOOMAJORMINOR confusion upstream (this is about which version of
<Sweet5hark1>   OpenOffice.org LibreOffice claims to impersonate to extensions)
<Sweet5hark1> - some coordination on LibreOffice mobile(Android) tender (which also enables completing the gtk3 engine, more OpenGL rendering)
<Sweet5hark1> - some considerations on the long-term supportability of LibreOffice 3.5.x on precise
<Sweet5hark1> - refactored some fundamental Writer container class from 1980ies code to pull it screaming and kicking into this century (constness, templateing, typesafety, kill macros)
<Sweet5hark1> - some flu downtime
<Sweet5hark1> - running on extrawide productivity now: got myself a 34" 21:9 screen
<ubot5> bug 1386170 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice startup center shorcut broken" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386170
<ubot5> bug 1342175 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "[upstream] Poor performance with find & replace with empty value on large data set" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342175
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, I'll try and get over to Cambridge for a day in May  - it's just down the road from me
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: awesome!
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting web server: Several fixes in database maintenance scripts
<tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Download mostly working again
<tkamppeter> - hplip: HPLIP team is testing IPP-over-USB.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> good news on the driver download, thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> Worked on:
<willcooke> - Released Unity Greeter 15.04.0, 15.04.1
<willcooke> - More code working for TPM support
<willcooke> - Started porting gnome-bluetooth to Bluez 5
<willcooke> - Updated gnome-calculator to 3.12
<willcooke> - Upstreamed gnome-bluetooth patches
<willcooke> Currently working on:
<willcooke> - TPM support
<willcooke> - Bluez 5 support
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Packaged up Pulseaudio 6.0 RC 1 aka 5.99.1. It was initially uploaded to the Ubuntu desktop team bluez5 PPA, and was moved to the transitions PPA ppa:ubuntu-desktop/transitions.
<willcooke> * Also built armhf packages, and they can be found at http://people.canonical.com/~themuso/pulse-5.99-bluez5-armhf/.
<willcooke> * Discussed with Debian about where Ubuntu pulseaudio packaging will be hosted going forward, it was agreed to put it in a branch as part of the pkg-pulse alioth team git packaging repo.
<willcooke> * Pushed the packaging of 5.99.1 to Debian's git repo as a result of sed discussion.
<willcooke> * Upgraded to vivid, no show stopper issues for me personally, will spend some time testing the latest pulse going forward, and plan to package newer RC releases as they are made available.
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: any other business
<willcooke> Lots of things in progress right now, but nothing solid to report on, probably will have more details next week
<willcooke> mlankhorst, FJKong - are you guys around atm?
<FJKong> willcooke: atm?
<willcooke> FJKong, you want to give your update?
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-12-02 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> I already give my update...
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> yes
<willcooke> of course
<FJKong> pinyin thing..
 * willcooke is having too many simultaneous conversations 
<willcooke> in which case
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  2 15:54:39 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-12-02-15.31.moin.txt
<Sweet5hark1> ah, so freenode wasnt kidding and muted my last item for flooding ....
<willcooke> oh - one more thing, I am going to be in the London office on Thursday , so will be travelling Thursday morning
<desrt> Sweet5hark1: you were trying to write, in decimal, the number of minutes it took to build the new libreoffice?
<Sweet5hark1> desrt: actually the line was: "#agreed Sweetshark should stop using MeetBots tags to confuse his co-workers"
<desrt> :)
 * desrt pastes one-line-at-a-time these days to avoid trouble
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, do you plan to do some settings landing for rtm/ota?
<didrocks> seb128: did you check the udev downgrade? I'm free for helping you now :)
<kenvandine> seb128, yup
<seb128> didrocks, no, came back like 1 min before the meeting and the issue happen on my work laptop so I couldn't reboot
<didrocks> seb128: ok, keep me posted
<didrocks> larsu: on the g-t thing, any chance so that we have a good bamf matching again on the terminal windows? (I saw you discuss it the other day, but didn't see the end of it I guess)
<larsu> didrocks: it's on my list, just not very high, sorry
<larsu> didrocks: I have the problem myself, so I'll probably get around to fixing it at some point this cycle ;)
<didrocks> larsu: as long as it's on your list for vivid, I'm fine, I just don't think we should release in the current status
<didrocks> larsu: heh ;)
<didrocks> state* even
<larsu> didrocks: I totally agree :)
<mlankhorst> sorta
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, downgrading udev/libudev fixes the issue
<seb128> diff from udevadm info --export-db on http://paste.ubuntu.com/9346619/
<seb128> wlan0 and some eth stuff changed
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks for confirming! can you please ubuntu-bug udev and attach that diff? I'll see what changed there and how to debug this further
<seb128> pitti, sure, with the new udev installed I guess?
<seb128> hum, syslog is spammed with such warnings
<seb128> Dec  2 17:23:25 localhost systemd[1]: unit_create_cgroups -.slice: cgroup  exists already
<seb128> Dec  2 17:23:25 localhost systemd[1]: unit_create_cgroups system.slice: cgroup /system.slice exists already
<seb128> Dec  2 17:23:25 localhost systemd[1]: Failed to reset devices.list on /system.slice: Invalid argument
<pitti> seb128: doen't matter that much
<seb128> yeah, just trying to find useful infos and I've pages of those
<pitti> seb128: right, but that should be unrelated and relatively harmless; if systemd 217 plus udev 215 fixes it, it's not that
<pitti> seb128: you didn't happen to try systemd 215 plus udev 217, I suppose?
<seb128> my syslog has no wlan0 with udev 217
<seb128> pitti, no, but I can if you want
<seb128> that's the boot with udev 217
<seb128> Dec  2 17:23:25 localhost NetworkManager[740]:    SCPlugin-Ifupdown: devices added (path: /sys/devices/virtual/net/virbr0, iface: virbr0)
<seb128> with 215
<pitti> seb128: I have these messages too; they are from an intermediate version of a patch to fix user LXC containers
<seb128> Dec  2 17:25:07 localhost NetworkManager[757]:    SCPlugin-Ifupdown: devices added (path: /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.1/0000:02:00.0/net/wlan0, iface: wlan0)
<seb128> the wlan0 line is missing with 217
<pitti> seb128: do you have wlan0 in /etc/network/interfaces?
<seb128> $ cat /etc/network/interfaces
<seb128> auto lo
<seb128> iface lo inet loopback
<seb128> $
<pitti> we usually don't on desktop and let NM manage it dynamically
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> pitti, well, seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/9346619/ wlan is missing
<pitti> ah right, I have these too (lo, wlan0)
<seb128> -P: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.1/0000:02:00.0/net/wlan0
<seb128> -E: DEVPATH=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.1/0000:02:00.0/net/wlan0
<seb128> -E: DEVTYPE=wlan
<pitti> seb128: yes, that diff is most useful
<pitti> seb128: I don't have a virbr0, just an lxcbr0 (what lxc sets up); do you happen to know where that comes from?
<seb128> pitti, no idea, maybe that has nothing to do with it
<seb128> virtualbox I would guess from the name?
<seb128> I use it
<pitti> seb128: oh, waaaaaaaait
<pitti>         * Userspace firmware loading support has been removed and
<pitti>           the minimum supported kernel version is thus bumped to 3.7.
<pitti> that smells a lot like your diff
<pitti> +E: FIRMWARE=iwlwifi-6000-5.ucode
<pitti> +E: SUBSYSTEM=firmware
<pitti> +E: TIMEOUT=60
<pitti> i. e. in that state the firmware isn't loaded yet
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1398458
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1398458 in systemd (Ubuntu) "wlan interface missing on boot with v217" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> pitti, my kernel is 3.16.0-26-generic
<pitti> [    6.586593] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load failed with error -2
<Sarvatt> i dont see iwlwifi-6000-5.ucode in any linux-firmware package
<pitti> in dmesg I see [    2.898239] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: loaded firmware version 18.168.6.1 op_mode iwldvm
<pitti> so that's Centrino Advanced-N 6200 (your's) vs. 6205 (mine), shouldn't be totally different..
<pitti> seb128: could you boot with "debug log_buf_len=1M"? maybe the kernel will be a bit more verbose about what fails?
<seb128> pitti, where do I put that?
<pitti> seb128: ah, kernel command line, i. e. in the "linux" line in grub
<pitti> where you'd also have init= or  quiet and splash
<seb128> k
<seb128> pitti, waiting a few minutes in case apw has a better suggestion
<seb128> going to make some tea meanwhile
<pitti> seb128: mmmm, tea!
<seb128> :-)
 * willcooke -> EOD
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-03
<didrocks> good morning
<desrt> didrocks: good morning!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> waow desrt! still working? :)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<desrt> didrocks: gvariant hacking for fun and profit
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti!
 * pitti ^5s didrocks, I just G+ed about you :)
<didrocks> pitti: it fixes the kde thingy as well :)
 * didrocks ^5s back :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, does it? I didn't see his response yet, just your "it should fix"
<pitti> (it's very likely, though)
<didrocks> pitti: he answered since
<didrocks> pitti: my best bet was that /etc wasn't mounted yet
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I guess the CC: is slower then
<pitti> didrocks: ah, got it now; do you want to do the duplication/merging dance, or shall I?
<didrocks> pitti: you are a better bts than I am :)
<didrocks> master*
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: funny, I know 2 of the frenchies from https://plus.google.com/101094190333184858950/posts/TtqsYd4wBC1 (they do live in Paris, didn't know they moved to Toulouse for the hackfest) :)
<pitti> didrocks: done
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: the liberte0 guys?
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: yep, my wife is sometimes contracting with them as well (doing design)
<didrocks> well s/design/visual assets/
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: yeah, they were interested in a11y for LibreOffice. Interesting discussion there ...
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! ein bisschen muede, ich bin zu spaet ins Bett gegangen
<darkxst> hey seb128
<darkxst> icon scaling needs to be fixed in the apps
<seb128> hey, I had a feeling that was coming
<seb128> doesn't seem an acceptable solution though
<seb128> "let's change gtk in an incompatible way and declare that all the apps need fixing"
<darkxst> seb128, gtk no longer scales icons if they are outside limits set in icon theme
<darkxst> mostly it should be as simple as setting GTK_ICON_LOOKUP_FORCE_SIZE flag when getting the icon info
<pitti> oh, is that a blocker for updateing gtk to 3.14?
<pitti> I noticed that http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html is full of auto-imported GNOME stuff which waits for gtk 3.14
<darkxst> nautilus is a little more complicated though since its using deprecated GtkActions to generate context menu
<darkxst> but I will file a bug upstream for that
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> larsu was looking at those issues yesterday and discussed them on #gtk+
<ari-tczew> pitti: not only auto-imported, of merged as well
<seb128> pitti, yes, it's one of the blockers
<seb128> pitti, see http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
<seb128> darkxst, that still seems a behaviour change from gtk and buggy and wrong
<darkxst> seb128, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738467
<ubot5> Gnome bug 738467 in general "Some icons are enormously large" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> darkxst, that's not a fix though...
<seb128> I wonder if we could revert the behaviour change in gtk
<darkxst> seb128, how many things are broken?
<seb128> dunno, we would need to run every single gtk rdepends in the archive and look at every icon in their ui to be able to tell
<darkxst> most of the GNOME things are fixed it seems except nautilus
<seb128> on a default unity desktop, at least several indicators and nautilus
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> oh, the unity dash is having issues as well
<seb128> but as usual, GNOME apps are the most likely to be fine
<seb128> but they are like 1% of the gtk users
<seb128> so they give a false summary
<seb128> gtk users->apps using gtk
<seb128> there are probably a lot more buggy code in !GNOME, since those don't benefit of GTK hackers fixing them as they do incompatible changes
<darkxst> seb128, yes, probably
<darkxst> I don't suppose there is any real harm in reverting that patch, though I haven't looked for it so far
<darkxst> gtg be back in half an hour or so
<seb128> ttyl
<didrocks> pitti: on empty machine-id, I think I can create some shell script and playing with setup-machine-id/commit
<didrocks> with a bunch of bind mounts
<mlankhorst> morning
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> hey :)
<didrocks> morning mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> didrocks: do you know how compiz determines screen size? I'm trying to handle compiz inside Xmir inside u8, and I'm getting a resize event from u8 after creating a surface, need to pass that on to compiz somehow..
<didrocks> mlankhorst: last time I checked, it was using some xrandr-like functions, but that may have changed
<didrocks> mlankhorst: not sure there is an API to force that (apart from developping a compiz plugin of course :p)
<larsu> darkxst: it can't be fixed in the apps in many cases (for example menus)
<pitti> didrocks: or in nspawn perhaps
<pitti> didrocks: although the current nspawn test is rather simple, it just sets up a tiny busybox file system
<didrocks> pitti: so, it means that I would run a debootstrap as part of the autopkgtests? Won't we have $random failures?
<didrocks> (happens that debootstrap fails)
<pitti> didrocks: nah, I think that's too much effort
<mlankhorst> didrocks: yeah I will probably just create a 'windowed' xrandr mode which changes names every time a resize event happens
<pitti> didrocks: we do debootstrap in the sbuild and lxc autopkgtests, but they always take a while
<didrocks> pitti: I would nspawn on what then? it needs a chroot, right?
<pitti> didrocks: so I suppose setting up some bind mounts and running the unit right in the actual testbed will be better (note that you can reboot)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: yeah, that shuld work :)
<didrocks> pitti: ah, so no nspawn then
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. you could just remove /etc/machine-id, reboot, and see if it comes back properly
<pitti> didrocks: (that one should have a "Restrictions: breaks-testbed" :) )
<didrocks> pitti: TBH, I like your nspawn idea, not sure how we can just download a ready chroot. That way, we can have a lot of integration tests
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, only if you are interested in this
<pitti> didrocks: you could download ubuntu core perhaps, or the daily LXC builds
<didrocks> pitti: maybe it's something worth digging for future tests, wdyt? (would be then easy to create broken state, ensure they are still working with newer versionsâ¦)
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/; they don't have systemd, so they need an apt-get install systemd-sysv call; I haven't tried that
<pitti> didrocks: for now the tests work right on the testbed itself
<pitti> (except for nspawn, of course)
<willcooke> g'mornin
<didrocks> yeah, but we never tried to break the testbed, did we?
<didrocks> pitti: in case it's not coming back?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<pitti> didrocks: then the timeout will hit and the test will fail
<didrocks> pitti: and a new vanilla testbed will then run other tests?
<pitti> didrocks: qemu's reboot hook has a timeout of 5 minutes
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so each tests are running on its own testbed, tests are isolated? (I guess, by script)
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, this is low-prio; I think I want a test for the DM generators much more badly
<pitti> didrocks: yes, adt-run takes care of that
<didrocks> ok, so yeah, little need for nspawn
<didrocks> pitti: I need to find an example, but yeah, will do that
<pitti> didrocks: do you have an idea how the generators can be tested efficiently?
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. is there something faster than rebooting the VM each time for each test?
<pitti> (although it's not *that* bad -- it takes maybe 10 seconds)
<larsu> seb128: this is one of those times where I think we should deviate from the xdg spec
<didrocks> pitti: I guess there is a bug in "systemctl status" that I observed (status not matching the reality). I needs fixing, but clearly that means if we only use status, we are unsure about the reboot statuts
<larsu> seb128: it's just really bad and never what you want
<didrocks> pitti: TBH, I would prefer the end-to-end user experience, meaning: choosing in debconf/postinst
<didrocks> reboot
<pitti> didrocks: sure, that sounds good as well
<didrocks> and then, check which dm has been restarted
<didrocks> it's slower, but we know we test what users will have
<pitti> yeah, right
<didrocks> pitti: apart from prefiling debconf to choose which dm to choose, is there any other tests to manipulate postinst prompts? (I want to follow the general best practices)
<pitti> didrocks: I'm not aware of an existing autopkgtest which does that
<didrocks> something to pioneer then :)
<seb128> larsu, yeah,
<seb128> larsu, how did the discussion on #gtk+ go? was there anything more (I did read on the afternoon)
<larsu> seb128: nah. Alex says the spec is the soec
<larsu> *spec
<larsu> I'll ask mclasen again today, he made the change
<seb128> k
<seb128> I'm pondering just distro reverting otherwise
<seb128> at least to give some times for apps to be fixed
<seb128> same as the wrapping one
<seb128> GTK does things in a stupid way by not giving some transition time
<seb128> it's "oh, btw, that stopped working, you better fix your code because your app is  buggy"
<larsu> well, we have transition time now that we're one cycle behind
<larsu> but yeah..
<larsu> I don't even know why he made the change...
<larsu> the real problem is that he didn't fix the occurences in gtk istelf (like menus)
<seb128> is that what bites us on indicators?
<darkxst> larsu, hmm right, I Guess menu icons are deprecated these days also
<darkxst> and such code paths will be problematic at best
<larsu> darkxst: no, they're not
<larsu> what do you mean by "problematic"?
<larsu> seb128: yes, you only supply an icon name in gmenu, and gtkmodelmenuitem puts the icon there
<larsu> seb128: there's no way to pass "force-size" there. And in fact, there's not even for gtkmodelmenuitem, becasue gtkimage doesn't support the flag
<larsu> (this is Alex' proposed way of fixing this...)
<darkxst> larsu, maybe I am confusing the menus show icon setting
<darkxst> larsu, problematic, to fix apps that are calling into gtk (like nautilus with gtkaction's)
<darkxst> gio has no knowledge of icon sizing
<larsu> darkxst: of course it doesn't, it doesn't load any icons...
<larsu> darkxst: right, that's what I mean. If it's changed it in gtk, *at least* also change the usage in gtk itself
<darkxst> gio basically passes through a filename for the icon then nautilus stuffs that into a gtkaction, but I doubt anyone is going to fix deprecated code
<larsu> what exactly is the problem in nautilus?
<larsu> didn't someone port it to GAction already?
<larsu> if nautilus has problems, someone will fix the code
<darkxst> larsu, open with menu get huge icons for gvim atleast
<larsu> haha, this is awesome :)
<larsu> takes the whole screen...
<darkxst> yeh its pretty big!
<Saviq> hey guys, question... when I've an external screen connected, my laptop won't suspend when I close the lid, but disconnect the internal screen instead (like the internal screen actually goes away)
<Saviq> any idea if this is caused by hw or something?
<seb128> Saviq, no idea, you could try to stop unity-settings-daemon and see if it does it too, but I guess in that case it's going to suspend on lid close...
<Saviq> seb128, yeah so it doesn't seem to be hw, the screen just gets disabled in the settings
<seb128> that would be weird
<seb128> I guess you could stop unity-settings-daemon and put a suspend inhibitor another way
<seb128> and close the lid
<seb128> and see what happens
<Saviq> seb128, nothing
<seb128> shrug
<Saviq> at least now I know what to file the bug with
<seb128> u-s-d?
<seb128> maybe try to run it with --debug and provide the log of what happens when you close the lid
<seb128> that doesn't make much sense to me of why it would remove the screen and how
<Saviq> seb128, yeah, I was almost sure it was a suspend issue
<Saviq> seb128, but then I disconnected the screen and picked up the laptop and it suspended fine
<Saviq> and then I noticed that the external screen actually gets all of my windows
<seb128> is the screen coming back when you reopen the lid?
<Saviq> yeah
<seb128> where is the bug then?
<seb128> if you close the lid that screen is virtually missing
<seb128> so removing it seems right
<willcooke> Windows has(had) an option where if you closed the lid and the machine was connected to power and an external screen then the internal screen would disappear and you'd be left with a single desktop on the external screen
<willcooke> I wonder if this might be a BIOS thing for that?
<willcooke> Saviq, you've got a Dell?
<Saviq> willcooke, yes
<Saviq> XPS12
<willcooke> Saviq, dual graphics cards?
<Saviq> willcooke, no
<willcooke> hrm
<Saviq> bug #1398771 then
<ubot5> bug 1398771 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "External screen turned off instead of suspending on lid close" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398771
<Saviq> seb128, willcooke, ah, so maybe what happens is that the built-in screen is turned off by hw, and the lid switch inhibitor kicks in
<Saviq> like if I only have the external screen on, then maybe it makes sense to not react to lid close
<willcooke> maaaaaybe
<willcooke> I mean, it kinda makes sense - but feels like there should be a choice somewhere
<willcooke> there certainly is/was with Windows
<Saviq> willcooke, well, there is a "when lid is closed:" setting in the power panel
<Saviq> question is whether that's the desired behavior
<willcooke> and it didnt do this in 14.10 I assume
<Saviq> not sure, really
<willcooke> next strange question then: does having external power connected change anything?
 * willcooke installs U7 on to his desktop next machine 
<popey> Does anyone have a good way to debug 993837 - got a friend with it now.
<popey> bug 993837
<ubot5> bug 993837 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't open Update Manager window after a while" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993837
<popey> (update manager is running, icon is there but you can't alt-tab to it to bring it to the front)
<willcooke> Saviq, seb128 - My 15.04 desktop-next machine with ubuntu-desktop installed doesnt suspend at all when I close the lid.  When an external screen is attached the laptop screen gets disconnected
<willcooke> having power connected doesnt seem to have any effect
<Saviq> willcooke, do you have the "on lid closed: suspend" setting enabled in settings?
<willcooke> Saviq, yeah
<Saviq> willcooke, and you mean it doesn't suspend even without the external screen connected?
<Saviq> willcooke, might be related, but mine generally suspends without an external screen
 * Saviq confirms
<Saviq> had to restart the session on resume (connected the external screen too early, probably)
<Saviq> but yeah, it suspended fine
<willcooke> hrm - and now it works.
<willcooke> I was running u-s-d --debug that time, and it did suspect
<willcooke> suspend
<willcooke> but with the external screen connected it doesnt
<popey> mine locks on lid close
<popey> despite me having it set to "do nothing"
<willcooke> I see "removing lid switch inhibitor" in the logs fwiw
<willcooke> logs:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9354257
<willcooke> that is *with* external screen connected
<willcooke> disconnect screen, shut lid -->  now nothing is responding to a click
<willcooke> or alt-tab etc
<willcooke> switch away to vty1 and back
<willcooke> and I get a 15.04 wallpaper but no option to unlock
<seb128> willcooke, can you summarize the issue?
<seb128> what config/option/action/result?
<willcooke> seb128, sure:
<willcooke> On my Desktop Next machine, I installed "ubuntu-desktop" so I could log in to a U7 session
<willcooke> (just checking what I'm typing is correct)
<willcooke> Boot up -> Log in to U7 -> System Settings -> Confirm "close lid" == "suspend"
<willcooke> Close lid -> Nothing
<willcooke> where nothing means doesnt suspend
<seb128> is that behaviour on battery or power?
<willcooke> battery
<willcooke> then:
<willcooke> open term -> stop u-s-d -> start again with --debug
<willcooke> then close lid and it suspends
<willcooke> so now suspend is working again, I connect external screen
<willcooke> screen gets detected by u-s-d
<willcooke> close lid -> display moves to external display, no suspend
<willcooke> open lid -> moves back to laptop display
<willcooke> disconnect external screen
<willcooke> doesnt seem to effect usd
<willcooke> close lid -> nothing
<willcooke> quite a long summary, sorry
<willcooke> and now if I switch to vty1 and back to 7
<willcooke> its like its locked, but there is no unlock option
<seb128> is that on vivid?
<willcooke> yes
<seb128> does the password entry come if you move the mouse on your current
<seb128> +screen
<seb128> like it might be on the laptop or a ghost screen
<willcooke> nope
<seb128> try going far left or right
<seb128> or up/down
<willcooke> the mouse wont move off the screen
<willcooke> like it knows there is only one screen
<seb128> so it's on the screen
<seb128> k, is that vivid?
<willcooke> yes
<seb128> ^ Trevinho conveniently just timeouted :p
<seb128> but what you describe seems like we still have an unity7 bug where the unlock prompt is not displayed in some cases
<seb128> willcooke, bug #1311316 was supposed to be fix
<ubot5> bug 1311316 in Unity 7.2 "After locking screen there is no input field to type password for unlock" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311316
<seb128> so maybe it's not fully
<seb128> andyrock, bregma, ^
<willcooke> ok, so that's one bug, and the suspend thing is likely a different one?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> oh, Trevinho_ is back ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, would be interesting to have a debug log from u-s-d when it doesn't suspend on lid close and is supposed to
<willcooke> seb128, this is interesting... it reliably works on the first lid close once I restart usd
<willcooke> then second one breaks
<seb128> hum
<willcooke> restart usd, works again once
<seb128> does it break as well if you don't use external screens?
<willcooke> yes, this is just internal screen
<seb128> k
<willcooke> I wonder if external screen is a red herring
<willcooke> Saviq, ^
<seb128> let me try on my inspiron 11
<seb128> I upgraded it yesterday to do some unity8 testing, I've unity7 on it as well
<willcooke> should be the same as mine then
<willcooke> same hardware too :D
<willcooke> damn it - its working now
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> I think it's related to the time between opens and closes
<Saviq> willcooke, for me it's rather reliable, ext screen â no suspend, no ext screen â suspend
<Saviq> willcooke, also, your pet peeve, for a while now I've been unable to play any videos with gstreamer on my  laptop, had to uninstall gstreamer-vaapi, otherwise was getting stream errors
<willcooke> I think we've got a cluster of related issues then
<Saviq> possibly
<willcooke> Saviq, @ vaapi - yeah, I think we know about that one
<seb128> right, that's mentioned on bug #1075774 and we have some other bugs about similar issues
<ubot5> bug 1075774 in gstreamer-vaapi (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gstreamer-vaapi" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075774
<willcooke> seb128,  @ suspend -> seems to be broken right after boot.  Log in, close lid, nada
<seb128> willcooke, wfm on my inspiron 11 with current vivid
<willcooke> ok, I'll reinstall and see what gives.  Might just be me
<seb128> reinstall is not going to make a difference
<willcooke> Look!  Over there!  A wild goose
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> can you share your ~/.cache/upstart/unity-settings-daemon.log
<seb128> after getting the issue
<seb128> it might have useful info
<seb128> you can also edit /usr/share/upstart/sessions/unity-settings-daemon.conf
<seb128> to add --debug to the Exec
<seb128> to try to get a debug log
<willcooke> seb128, upstart log:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9354548
<willcooke> that's ~/.cache/upstart/usd.log
<willcooke> seb128, and this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9354555/
<willcooke> seb128, is boot up -> log in -> close lid -> wait -> open lid
<willcooke> (with --debug on the exec line)
<willcooke> no external screen, battery power
<seb128> did it suspend?
<willcooke> nope
<seb128> k
<seb128> seems like a systemd/logind issue to me
<seb128> (unity-settings-daemon:2232): power-plugin-DEBUG: no lid-switch inhibitor
<seb128> logind is suposed to suspend on lid close if there is no inhibitor
<willcooke> I just closed the lid again, and it did suspend
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, ^ can you help debugging that? is logind/systemd having any log of those events?
<willcooke> seb128, this is from where it just worked:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9354572/
<seb128> willcooke, could be useful to get the output from "gdbus call --system -d org.freedesktop.login1 -o /org/freedesktop/login1 -m org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.ListInhibitors" when it fails to suspend
<didrocks> seb128: I don't know yet, but I can look :)
<seb128> willcooke, how do you see that it fails to suspend?
<seb128> how much do you wait?
<willcooke> seb128, ssh'd in, some seconds, maybe 5
<willcooke> trying again from a fresh boot...
<seb128> k
<seb128> I just had a case where it tooks like 15 seconds to suspend
<seb128> make sure to wait a bit
<desrt> oh man
<desrt> i didn't know that willcooke was a topposter
<seb128> lol
<seb128> yeah, he is
<willcooke> desrt, it's the future, embrace it
<desrt> NEVER
<didrocks> desrt: I guess it's part of the manager's pack
<willcooke> something something something dark side
<willcooke> you get a free top posting kit with every spreadsheet or slide deck you create
<desrt> Level up!  +1 to top-posting.
<didrocks> achievement unlocked
<willcooke> seb128, aaaaaaand - I've massively wasted your time
<didrocks> desrt: I'm sure they get a bonus if they succeed in us top-posting :)
<willcooke> seb128, it was taking a long time to suspend
<desrt> didrocks: they just use it to decide who gets promoted to manager next :)
<didrocks> ahah
<Trevinho_> seb128: getting disconnected frequently -_-
<seb128> willcooke, hahah, I can confirm that one ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, hey
<willcooke> ok, so generally not suspending - not a bug
<Trevinho> seb128: hi
<desrt> willcooke: on the order of 30 seconds, perhaps?
<willcooke> desrt, yeah
<willcooke> I can time it....
<desrt> it's 30 seconds
<seb128> Trevinho, willcooke is still having cases of "unity7 doesn't have an password prompt widget on the unlock screen" in current vivid
<desrt> that's what gnome does as a timeout for any suspend that's not directly related to an immediate lid-close
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, damnit... -_-
<desrt> got changed to (iirc) 8 seconds in a recent release
<Trevinho> willcooke: do you have anything intresting from auth.log?
<willcooke> Trevinho, let me find a way to recreate it and I'll take a look
<didrocks> desrt: isn't that ('sleep', 'didrocks', 'GNOME needs to lock the screen', 'delay', 1000, 1352) ? (I see 1s then)
<Trevinho> willcooke: also, single monitor?
<willcooke> desrt, seb128 - took exactly 1m to suspend
<willcooke> Trevinho,I'll have to check, I've had a lot of permutations of screens in the last hour.
<didrocks> willcooke: the gdbus call output seb128 pasted would be of help
<didrocks> gdbus call --system -d org.freedesktop.login1 -o /org/freedesktop/login1 -m org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.ListInhibitors
<desrt> willcooke: weird...
<willcooke> ([('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'will', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', uint32 1000, uint32 2227), ('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', 0, 694), ('sleep', 'Unity Lockscreen', 'Unity wants to lock screen before suspending.', 'delay', 1000, 2439), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 2742), ('sleep', 'will', 'GNOME needs to lock the sc
<willcooke> reen', 'delay', 1000, 2227)],)
<willcooke> second lid close is more or less immediate
<willcooke> ~ 1 sec
<didrocks> no weird inhibitors at least
<willcooke> Now, with the second screen attached
<willcooke> and the lid closed.
<willcooke> No suspend
<willcooke> ([('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'will', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', uint32 1000, uint32 2227), ('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', 0, 694), ('sleep', 'Unity Lockscreen', 'Unity wants to lock screen before suspending.', 'delay', 1000, 2439), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 2742), ('sleep', 'will', 'GNOME needs to lock the sc
<willcooke> reen', 'delay', 1000, 2227), ('handle-lid-switch', 'will', 'Multiple displays attached', 'block', 1000, 2227)],)
<seb128> yeah, I can confirm that one
<seb128> desrt, didrocks, pitti, does systemd suspend on lid close only if there is no external monitor?
<seb128> and is that new behaviour?
<desrt> seb128: yes
<desrt> seb128: no
<seb128> are you sure it's not new?
<desrt> pretty sure
<seb128> for some value of "new"
<seb128> willcooke, anyway that's why it doesn't suspend
<desrt> i've been docking my laptop for years and with the lid closed (but external monitor connected) it would stay on
<didrocks> seb128: I guess this is the handle-lid-switch inhibitor
<seb128> the systemd behaviour is not really compatible with our u-c-c options
<desrt> and here's the thing... imagine i have a laptop plugged in to an external monitor and the lid is open
<didrocks> seb128: the pid is the one of u-s-d
<seb128> well, it means our option on "what to do when lid closed" is not respect in case of external screens on a laptop
<desrt> if i do:  unplug monitor, close lid   -- the result is an immediate suspend
<desrt> but... if i do: close lid, unplug monitor -- the result is a 30 seconds wait
<seb128> why?
<desrt> the reason for that is to handle the case that i do: unplug monitor, open lid
<seb128> I see
<willcooke> I've just unplugged monitor and closed lid ->  no suspending (currently waiting with the lid closed)
<desrt> ie: would be stupid to suspend immediately for that case
<desrt> i talked to bastien about this though because 30 seconds is too long
<seb128> still it means our option of "what to do on lid close" is at least wrongly worded
<desrt> and he said he was changing it to 8
<seb128> it's "what to do on lid close when no external screen are connected"
<desrt> dunno if that ever happened
<desrt> or maybe it stopped being his responsibility when logind took over?
<willcooke> with second screen disconnected, then lid closed, mine isnt suspending at all
<willcooke> even after 2 mins
<willcooke> ([('handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key', 'will', 'GNOME handling keypresses', 'block', uint32 1000, uint32 2227), ('handle-lid-switch', 'will', 'Multiple displays attached', 'block', 1000, 2227), ('sleep', 'root', 'inhibited', 'delay', 0, 694), ('shutdown:sleep', 'Telepathy', 'Disconnecting IM accounts before suspend/shutdown...', 'delay', 1000, 2742), ('sleep', 'will', 'GNOME needs to lock the screen', 'delay', 100
<willcooke> 0, 2227), ('sleep', 'Unity Lockscreen', 'Unity wants to lock screen before suspending.', 'delay', 1000, 2439)],)
<willcooke> ah ha
<willcooke> and now I have the broken lock screen
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<seb128> willcooke, the "not suspend at all" is a feature
<seb128> but it makes our settings UI confusing
<seb128> the option apply only in "stantard laptop mode"
<willcooke> Trevinho, auth log:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9354644/
<Trevinho> andyrock: ^^^^
<Trevinho> he worked on delaying the suspension on the unity side (it's the right way to do, but maybe something has a race)
<willcooke> seb128, @ feature:  ack.  makes sense
<bregma> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1398287
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1398287 in Unity "Unity 14.04 Lock button sometimes takes 30~60s to enter lock screen" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<willcooke> this has been sat like it for a few mins now
<seb128> didrocks, desrt, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-power-constants.h#n42
<didrocks> ok, 8s now
<willcooke> re-plugged in 2nd monitor, move mouse over, and now I can escape the bounds of the external screen
<seb128> didrocks, desrt, ours is still 30s, I'm going to update it
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, 8s sounds nicer and enough if you want to unplug and reopen your lid
<didrocks> mlankhorst: is it me or the barrier sensitivity isn't working anymore? (there is an option in g-c-c to control it)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: not sure if it's on the xorg side (I don't mind the launcher appearance itself, but the resistance between monitors)
<didrocks> Trevinho: you might know ^
<didrocks> ah, maybe unity7 side alone
<didrocks> Trevinho: the launcher responsivness in g-c-c is only controlling launcher reveal edge responsivness
<didrocks> this value was impacted in the past the edge stop velocity as well
<mlankhorst> Sweet5hark1: hah, I'm running libreoffice inside XMir inside unity 8 inside unity-system-compositor! :P
<didrocks> as from one mouse/trackpad to another, it can be hard to go cross barriers
<Trevinho> didrocks: that setting is only for the launcher yes, but the monitors barrier can be configured from the display pane
<didrocks> Trevinho: hum, we didn't handle the transition then?
<didrocks> Trevinho: where in the display pan btw?
<didrocks> pane*
<didrocks> Trevinho: there is just sticky edges yes/no
<didrocks> no way to have a little bit (so that hidden launcher can still be reveal), but adjusting it
<Trevinho> didrocks: that's the only control we have for monitors
<didrocks> Trevinho: well, the other option in the past was controlling both values
<didrocks> Trevinho: that means that I can't reveal the anymore on one of my monitor or I have to push really strongly everytime I cross the edge
<didrocks> Trevinho: not nice for the users to not handle the transition as we used to :/
<Trevinho> didrocks: nothing there changed without design input, I think, by the way: there's also a thing: if you cross the monitor, there's a small delay during which the edge is not sticky anymore
<Trevinho> didrocks: to fix your position, if you crossed by mistake
<nessita> hello everyone any advice where to ask about having unity (utopic) acting up regarding: window resizing (when move the mouse pointer to the corner of a window, the pointer changes to the "resizing" pointer as expected, but when trying to actually resize, nothing happens)
<Trevinho> I'm not in vivid btw, not sure if xorg changed something there
<didrocks> Trevinho: would have been great to have that discussed, as it took some times in the past to ensure that the global slider was inpacting both. My issue is not to come back to the display, is that the trackpad doesn't have enough velocity by default to cross the monitors
<nessita> and chromium deciding to stop accepting input from the keyboard after changing windows focus
<didrocks> Trevinho: I mean, for me, it's fine, I can change the value back in ccsm, not great for $average_user :/
<didrocks> (I didn't have my monitors configured left/right for a long time, up/down generally, so didn't notice)
<Trevinho> I agree
<seb128> didrocks, Trevinho, I don't think the u-c-c side of the code changed, is the ccsm value working?
<seb128> could be that the config is correctly changed but that unity doesn't use the number anymore
<didrocks> seb128: right, so the slider is bound to launcher reveal edge responsiveness
<didrocks> this value (in ccsm) was a combination of all other values regarding launcher reveal and edge barrier
<Trevinho> didrocks: but probably the ui should have been redisegned anyway, I mean, the bhavior panel controls some stuff which is, according to what the labels say, not related to monitors... And thus in general we should have handled this in different places imho
<didrocks> it seems now to only impact the launcher reveal pressure
<Trevinho> didrocks: looking at the code, I think nothing changed btw... so the options still apply to both
<didrocks> Trevinho: that's would be weird, I didn't touch that one for ages (maybe 3 cycles ago), but didn't use that setup again until today. I'm sure I couldn't live with this barrier and I notice no change in stop velocity depending on what I set
<mlankhorst> seb128: I have no idea who to ask, how do I start a new user upstart session?
<Trevinho> we just added it vertical support only
<mlankhorst> without lightdm..
<Trevinho> didrocks: couldn't this related to xorg changes?
<Trevinho> didrocks: keep in mind that we had a xfixes implementation that was sligthly different to what upstream then included
<didrocks> Trevinho: can be, but I remember seeing this values changing all others in ccsm
<didrocks> which isn't the case anymore
<Trevinho> didrocks: and, indeed we updated our code to support that, but maybe something changed in the internals
<Trevinho> ah, ok...
<didrocks> yeah, maybe that breakage is from that transition
<didrocks> if only all mouse/trackpads were sending similar velocityâ¦
<Trevinho> seb128: anyway ucc has a bug: if you toggle the launcher autohide the related controls get enabled once and never disabled again
<Trevinho> seb128: I thought I fixed that some time ago, but maybe it wasn't the case
<seb128> mlankhorst, what do you mean "start a new user upstart session"?
<seb128> mlankhorst, try asking on #ubuntu-devel maybe
<mlankhorst> seb128: I want to start the full ubuntu-desktop without lightdm
<seb128> mlankhorst, just run gnome-session --session=ubuntu
<mlankhorst> ok
<mlankhorst> I'm having problems with getting the unity panels to appear
<mlankhorst> compiz itself seems to work, but the side panel doesn't show up
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: umm, just wondering: anything from me missing still blocking the 4.3/utopic upload?
<tedg> larsu, Do you know why we have a setting to turn off notifications on scroll wheel adjustments of volume?
<tedg> Seems like an odd setting that no one would find.
<tedg> Perhaps mpt as well ^
<larsu> tedg: nope, I was wondering this myself at some point
<larsu> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1225335
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1225335 in The Sound Menu "[regression] Scrolling over the volume indicator should optionally show the notify-osd" [Medium,Fix released]
<larsu> tedg: I think I had accidentally removed support for it at some point and promptly got this bug report ;)
<larsu> cleary some users care about this (*cough* Trevinho *cough*)
 * tedg is going to wash that setting right out of his hair â«
 * Trevinho cough
<larsu> Trevinho: :)
<Trevinho> :)
<larsu> Trevinho: oh, I guess this bug report was more about the notification and less about the setting?
<larsu> maybe we could remove/deprecate it?
<Trevinho> larsu: indeed
<larsu> tedg: you want to remove it? I kind of considered gsettings keys to be API
<tedg> Eh, I don't think so.
<Trevinho> larsu: as it was a design change propsal, I put the "option" in, but all it matters is that it works :)
<tedg> I guess I feel like we've "burned" a name for the future, but I don't think we need to support it in the schemas anymore.
<larsu> tedg: people's apps will crash if they access the key... (I assume noone does this, though)
<larsu> Trevinho: right, it makes sense to show the notification. The setting, not so much
<tedg> I assume everyone has the same cut-and-paste code to work around that API :-/
<larsu> hm?
<tedg> But no one should use a gsettings key in another package.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, no, thanks for the reminder
<larsu> tedg: "should"
<larsu> :P
<larsu> we do this a lot for u-s-d and u-c-
<larsu> *u-c-c
<tedg> Yeah, and unfortunately code that depends on those should *really* check for the keys.
<larsu> there are also some general schemas like org.gnome.desktop
<tedg> I wish the API was more sane to allow for handling those cases.
<larsu> tedg: no... the keys should just not change, just like the names of functions in libraries
<tedg> Runtime breakage is always bad, and hard to debug. Never a solution, always a problem.
<larsu> right, same for functions in libraries...
<tedg> There are no tools for things like versioning, which there are in libraries.
<larsu> maybe we should start having ABI checks for gsettings as well
<larsu> we could append an api number, like systemd does for dbus names
<tedg> Heh, still not sure why that's not just the systemd revision number.
<larsu> because systemd changes faster than those interfaces
<larsu> desrt: do you know if anyone has ever looked into checking gsettings schemas for abi compat?
<larsu> desrt: kind of like we do for libs in debian packages
<tedg> Sure, but if you need to be able to handle multiple, you might as well have lots. Either that or they don't need versioning at all.
<tedg> You're problem is that you need to be able to check for key usage.
<tedg> Your
<tedg> Which is harder. It's easy to see what you export, but not what you use.
<larsu> ah, I was thinking more along the lines of .symbols files
<larsu> you get a warning when you remove lines from it
<larsu> in a package update
<desrt> larsu: i suspect that nobody has
<larsu> I wonder if this has ever been a problem in practice
<larsu> is there a way to deprecate keys?
<tedg> larsu, Sure, but the other aspect of symbols files is that it makes the package that depends on that library depend on the right version. So it know "> x" by which symbols it uses and when they were introduced.
<larsu> tedg: ya, that's what I mean. We could have exactly the same
<tedg> Mostly, it'd be best if it failed to build if a key was missing that it needed. That way it could be an autopkgtest.
<larsu> do we have that for symbols?
<tedg> Yeah, it doesn't build :-)
<willcooke> seb128, desrt - I was just about to reply to that email where I had replied inline and not top posted, but desrt beat me to the reply. ;)
<willcooke> so yeah, seb128 if you want to start logging desktop specifics that would be a great help
<seb128> willcooke, is that specific to Mir or do you want bugs for everything that is needed to make a desktop?
<seb128> willcooke, like an example, handling of lid close actions on battery/power with/without external screen, u-s-d does that for us on desktop, we have nothing yet for unity8, not even sure if we need new services or where that should be done
<willcooke> seb128, hrm.  I think we should just stick to Mir for those bugs, and perhaps start another list with another tag for more general features
<mpt> tedg, I have never seen or heard of that scrollwheel setting. Where is it?
<tedg> mpt, It's only available via developer tools.
<seb128> willcooke, k, do we want to list unity8 features as well
<willcooke> seb128, yes please, but with another tag
<seb128> willcooke, like in multi-monitor what screens should have a launcher, which one is primary
<seb128> willcooke, have a tag name in mind?
<willcooke> kgunn, ^  any preference for a tag to id u8 features *& desktop features?  We've got gtk-mir for desrt's ones.  How about u8-desktop?
<kgunn> willcooke: wfm
<kgunn> Saviq: camako ^ fyi
<xnox> seb128: are you going to merge https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libio-socket-ssl-perl/1.965-1ubuntu1 anytime soon?
<xnox> seb128: it breaks stuff.... like it doesn't talk to ssl sites that disabled sslv3 negotiation -> libwww-perl broken -> uscan is broken -> xnox is not happy and wants to cry
<seb128> xnox, no, feel free to grab it
<seb128> I've no interest in that package, I just did the mistake to touch it once
<xnox> seb128: lolz =)
<xnox> seb128: ok. also doesn't seem to fix my problem =( tested in sid chroot now.
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> still feel free to do the merge ;-)
<seb128> ok, calling it a day a bit earlier today, going to see a spectacle, have a good evening desktopers
 * Sweet5hark1 mumbles something about being a topposter being a compliment in the same way are being called three star progammer is ...
<willcooke> :D
 * willcooke -> EOD
<desrt> Sweet5hark1: ya... three star programming is best avoided
<desrt> after all, who would want to limit themselves to only three?
<Sweet5hark1> desrt: after all in C++ with a std::vector<std::shared_ptr<somthing> > you essentially get the first two stars for free in iteration!
<ari-tczew> robert_ancell: hi, could you sponsor one merge on bug 1338801 please?
<ubot5> bug 1338801 in gnome-screenshot (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.12" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1338801
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-04
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning!
<pitti> Ã§a va didrocks, comment vas-tu ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<pitti> je vais bien aussi
<didrocks> pitti: do you plan to go to the systemd hackfest?
<didrocks> (at FOSDEM)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, I do
<pitti> you too?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm eager to add the topic about how to handle all our use-cases with presets, but I'm afraid for that to be quite late for vivid
<pitti> didrocks: that's ok, I think; we can do that for jessie+1/vivid+1
<didrocks> pitti: meaning that our first implementation with purge/remove and so on would be broken, right?
<didrocks> I'm unsure how much bad press that would have, probably less for us than for jessie (and it's too late for jessie)
<pitti> didrocks: most probably none at all -- nobody complained about it in Debian so far
<didrocks> ok then :)
 * didrocks subscribed to the event and will add the topic
<mlankhorst> morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst, seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> hey mlankhorst
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> g'day
<didrocks> pitti: is there a simple way to rerun some tests when adt-run failed? (I want to have the same environment wrapper to have the PPID magic when rebooting the vm
<didrocks> pitti: I sshed into the env
<pitti> didrocks: you used -s?
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> didrocks: adt-run shows you the directory where the package is in the testbed (/tmp/adt-run.XXXX/...)
<pitti> didrocks: cd there, and call debian/tests/foo (perhaps with sudo if the test needs root)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, no wrapper needed, nothing magic?
<didrocks> (even for reboots)
<didrocks> I'm asking because it doesn't seem that the call for rebooting the testbed works when directly executing like in sudo python3 debian/tests/display-managers
<pitti> didrocks: if your test needs $ADTTMP, you need to set that; but that's about the only thing
<pitti> didrocks: it should
<didrocks> or maybe 'autopkgtest-reboot boot-systemd' only works under upstart?
<pitti> didrocks: oh wait -- rebooting kills your ssh session, of course
<pitti> didrocks: no, it works under any init
<didrocks> pitti: well, it doesn't do anything, like if it ignored the subprocess call
<pitti> didrocks: ah right, sorry
<didrocks> and run all the tests, but without rebooting in between (only when I sshed to it, working well under adt-run)
<pitti> didrocks: so yes, manually running a test like this with reboot isn't going to work
<didrocks> ah ;)
<pitti> didrocks: what you can do is to reboot, and call your test with ADT_REBOOT_MARK=whatever
<pitti> didrocks: that's the same effect as what adt-run does
<pitti> didrocks: I mean autopkgtest-reboot
<pitti> didrocks: so run your test, reboot manually, re-run with ADT_REBOOT_MARK=whatever
<didrocks> pitti: well, the reboot is in the middle of the tests, so not going to work
<didrocks> as I prepared the test setup
<didrocks> reboot
<pitti> didrocks: autopkgtest-reboot will at least kill the test at the right time
<didrocks> and check status
<pitti> didrocks: otherwise, it seems way easier to just comment out all other tests from debian/tests/control and run with adt-run
<didrocks> pitti: but rebooting during one test isn't supported from what you told? (even with adt-run)
<pitti> didrocks: sure it is, that's the whole point of it
<pitti> didrocks: it's just tricker to do if you run a test manually
<pitti> didrocks: so, what happens:
<pitti> - test gets started
<pitti> - test calls autopkgtest-reboot; that SIGKILLs its parent (i. e. your test)
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> - [*] adt-run sees that the test was killed, and that there is a reboot marker set
<pitti> - [*] adt-run reboots the test bed and re-runs the test with ADT_REBOOT_MARK=whatever
<pitti> - your test starts again, checks $ADT_REBOOT_MARK and resumes at the right place
<pitti> didrocks: if you run a test manually, you need to do the steps [*] manually
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. reboot, and re-run test with ADT_REBOOT_MARK set
<didrocks> pitti: will be a little bit harder as I'm rebooting inside some unittests tests (not sure what you use as a terminology for this)
<didrocks> so basically, I have
<didrocks> class FooTests:
<didrocks>     def test_1(self):
<didrocks>        doing some stuff
<didrocks>        reboot()
<didrocks>        check
<didrocks> same for def test_2(selfÃ â¦
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I guess you can't use the simple unittest.main(), but might need to load individual classes depending on where you are in the reboot state
<pitti> didrocks: alternatively you can skip the whole class with
<pitti> @unittest.skipUnless(os.environ.get('ADT_REBOOT_MARK') == 'stage3')
<meetingology> pitti: Error: "unittest.skipUnless(os.environ.get('ADT_REBOOT_MARK')" is not a valid command.
<pitti> oh, shut up meetingology :)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<pitti> didrocks: or your main() needs to look like
<didrocks> pitti: I wonder if then, it's not cleanup/more effective to investigate in nsspawn?
<didrocks> s/cleanup/more clean/
<pitti> if 'ADT_REBOOT_MARK' not in os.environ:
<pitti>    # run initial tests/setup
<didrocks> yeah, I see what you mean :)
<pitti> elif os.environ['ADT_REBOOT_MARK'] == 'stage1':
<pitti>    # run stage 1 tests
<pitti> elif os.environ['ADT_REBOOT_MARK'] == 'stage2':
<pitti>    # run stage 2 tests
<pitti> etc.
<pitti> didrocks: maybe, but I thought you wanted to have a full end-to-end test
<didrocks> pitti: actually, I'm starting to fake the dm services in the end
<pitti> didrocks: note that you can also split your test into multiple .py files, and the "master" test script just runs the right one according to the reboot mark
<didrocks> pitti: because we want to test the service (eventually created from sysvinit) state
<didrocks> pitti: not the dm scripts which are going to change
<didrocks> yeah, the thing is that I will have ~10 of them
<pitti> didrocks: oh, I thought you wanted to install three DMs and check that they behave as expected
<pitti> i. e. end-to-end test
<didrocks> pitti: there are multiple combinations, like one systemd dm, multiple systemd dms, one init-only dm, one init + one systemd dm and different /etc/X11/d-d-m states
<pitti> didrocks: they would reflect as different test cases then? either autopkgtest tests, or unittest tests; the former takes longer but is isolated, the latter also checks that purging a DM works right and is fater
<pitti> faster
<didrocks> pitti: I was thinking implementing them thanks to an unittest class, piloting those scenarios (to avoid code duplication between multiple tests)
<didrocks> as 90% is just about "dropping some files, reboot, check systemd state"
<pitti> didrocks: if you don't actually install DMs, do you actually need to reboot?
<pitti> didrocks: instead of just re-running the generators and checking the results?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm checking the active unit state (as it's really what matters from systemd side), that means I need systemd to boot to that target
<pitti> didrocks: ah, ok; so reboot ladder then?
<pitti> ifelse ladder or @unittest.skipUnless
<didrocks> pitti: I can maybe systemctl isolate default.target?
<pitti> I don't know what that does
<didrocks> it's equivalent to systemctl default, meaning: "build the default job transaction" (as during boot) and stop everything that isn't part of it
<didrocks> hum, isolate doesn't enable to restart ssh from adt-run, that's weirdâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: I wonder if there is any magic in the way you are starting ssh from the testbed? ^
<pitti> didrocks: how do you mean?
<pitti> didrocks: unless you build-depend on it, ssh isn't even guaranteed to be installed
<pitti> didrocks: I think it is for our cloud VMs, but adt isn't using that
<pitti> err, test-depend, not build-depend
<didrocks> pitti: I think isolate default is killing the ssh that you start up so that we can access to it with -s
<didrocks> daemon*
<pitti> didrocks: aah, that
<pitti> didrocks: well, then don't use ssh, use minicom or netcat (although their terms suck a lot for doing actual work)
<pitti> but at least it should be enough to bring ssh back up
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, will do that then, not trying to restart it myself :)
<pitti> didrocks: btw, how is it easier/more efficient to run with -s and manually start the test 5 times than just using adt-run?
<pitti> didrocks: if you comment out all other tests, and perhaps build a VM with your test deps already pre-installed (so that you don't have to wait for apt for long), it seems a lot easier to just run the whole thing?
<pitti> rebooting should take 20 s or os
<pitti> "so"
<didrocks> pitti: I already commented all other tests a long time ago :)
<didrocks> pitti: it's just to look at the FHS status isn't the one I expected
<didrocks> if*
<didrocks> minicom is enough anyway for that
<willcooke> urgh
<willcooke> That took a lot longer than I expected.
<willcooke> Only just got to London
<desrt> good morning linux distribution desktop environment team chat room
<larsu> good morning software library maintainer
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> hi hi
<didrocks> good morning desrt!
<desrt> seems like a slow morning :)
<larsu> desrt: how can mardy take a ref on an unowned hash table in vala
<desrt> create a non-unowned version of the variable and assign it
<larsu> he says that throws an error
<desrt> that seems curious.
<larsu> error: Reference transfer not supported for this  expression
<desrt> ?!
<larsu> ya...
<desrt> there's something else wrong there
<larsu> probably. He says it's no big deal, he was just wondering if we have a quick solution
<larsu> (and I don't)
<desrt> is he getting the generics right?
<desrt> 'show me the code'?
<larsu> don't have it
<larsu> should work in a return, no=?
<desrt> show him this as an example of something that works: http://ur1.ca/iza0d
<larsu> ok
<larsu> thanks
 * desrt loves this broken telephone game :)
 * larsu doesn't
<larsu> desrt: did you check whether it calls g_hash_table_ref()
<desrt> it does
<desrt> here's the C: http://ur1.ca/iza0o
<desrt> (warning to children and the faint of heart: don't look)
<larsu> err, why?
<larsu> it's not _that_ bas
<larsu> *bad
<desrt> it's pretty ugly :)
<larsu> hm, you mean it would be cool if vala spat out code that could have been written by a human?
<larsu> I don't see what purpose that would serve
<larsu> other than easier debugging, mybe
<larsu> I wonder why it needs the ref0 version
<desrt> porting to C when you eventually get pissed off with vala :)
<larsu> haha. Which you will eventually
<mardy> larsu, desrt: that worked, thanks (declaring a local HashTable)
<larsu> mardy: hm? I thought you tried that before?
<larsu> in any case, nice that it works now :)
<tedg> larsu, desrt, can we have a "dbus_escape_string" or some such in GLib to avoid cut-and-pasting code to do it around?
<tedg> Or worse, people rewriting it.
<larsu> tedg: yes, I've been meaning to write one for a while
<larsu> for object paths, you mean, right?
<tedg> Yeah, just to handle the dbus naming requirements.
<tedg> And the matching unescape of course.
<larsu> yep
<tedg> I think that I've personally written it once for GLib, once for std::string and once for QString.
<tedg> Becauseâ¦ it's so much funâ¦
<larsu> \o/
 * tedg does it for the LOLs
<mardy> desrt: hi! in Vala, given a Variant of type a{sv}, is there any shorter way to get a string out of it, than data.lookup_value("key", null).get_string()?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> you can '.lookup_value ("key", null) as string'
<desrt> or you can, if it is more convenient, do:
<desrt> string x;
<desrt> .lookup ("key", "s", out x);
<desrt> there is not anything like data["key"] if that's what you mean
<mardy> desrt: yes, I was looking for that, or at least for a way to not specify the VariantType (the GLib method accepts null there, so I hoped that there was a way to avoid passing anything at all, in Vala)
<desrt> ah.  right.
<desrt> the lookup ("key", "s", out  ...) thing is your best approach then
<desrt> returns boolean if successful (and you have a string) or false otherwise
<desrt> the trouble is that you don't know what type of thing might be in that dictionary, so you really do need to check it...
<desrt> (the APIs strongly suggest the recommended convention of treating an existing-but-wrongly-typed value as if it was missing)
<mardy> seb128: I attached a branch to bug 1382843, with an updated 06_uoa.patch which should fix the issue
<ubot5> bug 1382843 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "uoa publishing on flickr, corrupted double-linked list error" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382843
<mardy> seb128: I tested it with Facebook, Flickr and Picasa
<seb128> mardy, great, thanks for looking at that one! I can upload that and take care of the SRUs ;-)
<sil2100> Hey! Does anyone know if Didier will be around today still?
<willcooke> sil2100, I think he had an appointment this afternoon - probably wont be back until tomorrow.  Probably just email him?
<sil2100> willcooke: hey, we had an emergency, but we were able to sort it out with the help of #webops
<sil2100> Thanks for the info!
<willcooke> ah cool
<willcooke> no worries sil2100
 * willcooke -> Train
<Noskcaj> seb128, The lintian change was from lp:ubuntu/ to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ it mustn't have been added when the bzr was most recently updated
<seb128> Noskcaj, k
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-05
<didrocks> good morning
 * didrocks is going to look with a fresh eye why this test is failing
<pitti> didrocks: bonjour!
<didrocks> hey pitti :)
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> hi didrocks! How's it going?
<didrocks> larsu: it's going, and you, feeling better? :)
<larsu> didrocks: not really :(
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks larsu
<larsu> hi seb128 :)
<didrocks> morning seb128
<willcooke> seb128, just upgraded my u8 machine and installed metacity, now u8 session or u7 session will not start :/
<willcooke> might just be me though
<willcooke> morning btw :D
<larsu> hi willcooke!
<willcooke> hey larsu
<seb128> hey willcooke, what error do you get
<willcooke> seb128, which log file should I be looking in?
<seb128> .cache/upstart/gnome-session-Unity.log
<seb128> that's for unity7
<seb128> what happens at login?
<willcooke> mlankhorst, I just pulled your latest PPA too, just in case that's involved ^^
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<willcooke> seb128, @ login -> type password -> nada
<seb128> nada like you stay on the greeter?
<willcooke> yeah - but
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> or does the greeter goes away?
<willcooke> I removed metacity and now I can log in to U7
<willcooke> let me just recheck that
<seb128> weird
<willcooke> seb128, I might be wasting your time again
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> what you describe is weird for sure
<seb128> have an extra wm installed shouldn't impact on existing sessions
<seb128> but maybe there is something in the daily updates or in the ppa you opted in for
<willcooke> doesnt seem metacity related, unsurprisingly
<willcooke> ok U7 working fine, U8 b0rked
<willcooke> where b0rk = greeter stays on the screen
<willcooke> sounds like a Mir issue
<willcooke> mlankhorst, is there any new Mir stuff in your ppa?
<willcooke> ohhh - mlankhorst is off todayu
<willcooke> it's Friday
<willcooke> I suspect it's a bleeding edge Mir which is the problem, so panic over
<willcooke> ;)
<willcooke> Does anyone *want* to go to MWC?
<willcooke> and work I mean
<willcooke> not, ya know, look round
<seb128> lol
<seb128> where/when is it and what can we do that is useful there?
<seb128> 24_27 feb in Barcelona?
<seb128> larsu, I'm running your updated theme, things are better with it ;-)
<willcooke> 2->5 March - http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
 * didrocks puts back swim clothes to the closet :p
<larsu> seb128: :)
<bregma> willcooke, mlankhorst's PPA definitely has the latest Mir, now with dependencies on new protobuf still stuck in -proposed, so will probably munge your system until that's cleared up (which may have happened by now)
<bregma> check /var/log/lighdm/* for errors
<willcooke> thx bregma
<willcooke> yup
<willcooke> [+36.81s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Creating display server of type mir
<willcooke> [+36.81s] DEBUG: Using VT 8
<willcooke> [+36.81s] DEBUG: DisplayServer: Logging to /var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log
<willcooke> [+36.81s] DEBUG: Launching process 2377: /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor.sleep --file '/run/lightdm-mir-0' --from-dm-fd 12 --to-dm-fd 21 --vt 8 --enable-hardware-cursor=true
<willcooke> [+36.81s] DEBUG: DisplayServer: Waiting for system compositor for 60s
<willcooke> [+36.93s] DEBUG: DisplayServer: Compositor closed communication channel
<willcooke> [+36.93s] DEBUG: Process 2377 exited with return value 127
<willcooke> [+36.93s] DEBUG: DisplayServer: Unity system compositor stopped
<willcooke> [+36.93s] DEBUG: Releasing VT 8
<willcooke> [+36.93s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Display server stopped
<willcooke> and then in the u-s-c.log:
<willcooke> /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor: relocation error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmirplatform.so.4: symbol _ZN3mir7logging3logENS0_8SeverityERKSs, version MIR_COMMON_3 not defined in file libmircommon.so.3 with link time reference
<bregma> that nutty Mir and it's totally unstable ABI
<willcooke> so I'm assuming that libmirplatform 4 doesnt work with libmircommon 3
<bregma> try adding -proposed to your sources and updating
<willcooke> oooh
<willcooke> plan
<willcooke> !
<bregma> I take no responsibility for the result
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> if it breaks I'll give up on that for today
<bregma> (I have -proposed on on my test machine, it was fine yesterday)
<willcooke> do I need to add it to everything in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<willcooke> maybe just main?
<bregma> I think just main is all you really need for this
<bregma> BTW, the Steam client now runs on Unity 8 with the latest PPA build
<willcooke> O_o
<willcooke> whaaa!
<willcooke> that's awesome!  thank you!
<willcooke> bregma, in Xmir right?
<bregma> yes
 * willcooke upgrades to proposed and has some qtmir stuff upgrading
<bregma> updated qtmir is also i the PPA
<willcooke> ahh - and also libmirplatform4 :)
<bregma> it's depndencies all the way down
 * bregma gos to take the dog for a walk
<willcooke> ttfn
<willcooke> hrm
<willcooke> I think libmircommon is still too old
<willcooke> never mind
<willcooke> I'll try again later
<Sweet5hark> protip of the day: do backups. often.
<willcooke> :D
<Sweet5hark> for some reason my work notebook did a hard reset and didnt boot through after that. I had all the joy of system recovery and expected some data to be lost, with the last full backup 6 months old.
 * larsu notes to back up his laptop after lunch
<Sweet5hark> I had to boot from a LiveCD, mount the encrypted drive (crossing my fingers) and then tell fsck, which already screamed at me that my primary superblock is gone, to just "fix(y)?" 2 bazillion things into the blind on the fs ...
<willcooke> yikes
<Sweet5hark> I could do a a full backup then, and even boot -- though I am not sure about the extend of corruption. My syslog for the event is just graced with a huge set of interesting binary characters ...
<willcooke> meh
<willcooke> backups are hard and take a long time
<willcooke> ;)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: bullets fear the brave!
<desrt> sometimes i feel like i miss out on the best times by not being european
<larsu> everything's nicer here, not only the time zone
<larsu> you shuld consider moving ;)
 * larsu knows just the right city for you.......
<desrt> i hope it's not berlin
<larsu> ts
<larsu> tedg: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741156
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 741156 in gdbus "gdbus: add g_dbus_object_path_{un,}escape" [Normal,New]
<seb128> hey desrt, happy friday ;-)
<desrt> seb128: :(
<tedg> larsu, Cool, I'd add some 16-bit characters to your tests: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/pay-service/trunk.15.04/view/head:/tests/dbus-interface-tests.cpp#L262
<tedg> larsu, That screwed me up once already :-)
<desrt> i hate it already :D
<desrt> double-escaped utf8?  awesome
<larsu> tedg: no. ascii.
<tedg> larsu, DBus needs ascii, but I dont' think we can assume that as input, no?
<tedg> larsu, Ah, also you don't handle the first character can't be a number case.
<larsu> tedg: ya systemd does this as well, but the spec says nothing of the sort
<larsu> tedg: what do you want to encode?
<tedg> larsu, Hmm, I'm pretty sure Lennart linked me to the place. Let me look.
<desrt> btw: if we allow non-ascii in these strings then you either need to decide if you're going to enforce valid utf8 (seems a bad idea) or document that the API is not returning a string but rather a guint8[]
<larsu> desrt: why is utf8 a bad idea?
<larsu> tedg: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html#message-protocol-marshaling-object-path
<tedg> larsu, Hmm, okay, I can't find it. I can't imagine that I would have done it for consistency with systemd...
<desrt> because if this is encoding filenames for example (which i suspect it is) then enforcing utf8 will cause problems
<tedg> larsu, The thing I was encoding where payment item ids, which are UTF8 and configured by the application developer. So they could be "magic-potion-35" or what ever that is in Chinese.
<larsu> tedg: ya I was suspecting this as well and I'd argue that this is a bad idea...
<tedg> Why not convert to utf8?
<larsu> utf8 should work by ignorance, no?
<tedg> I'm not as worried about filesystem names. But it seems in that case you should convert to utf8.
<larsu> it does byte-wise escaping...
<desrt> larsu: sorry about the grumpy review.  you caught me before coffee.
<larsu> desrt: no worries. This should indeed be >=, not > (but nul isn't a problem because of lazy evaluation)
<larsu> desrt: as for input, I'd argue the string should be utf8 as per glib convention. Doi you think we need to verify it?
<larsu> desrt: as I said before, I didn't think anyone but the process that called escape() would call unescape(), hence the critical
<desrt> you really need to make that a lot more clear
<desrt> because i might think that i can call that on systemd unit file object paths in order to grok them, for example
<larsu> what else would you want? Taking an error?
<larsu> if you say this is something that people might want to do, ok
<desrt> well, there is a conflict here
<desrt> we must choose one property that we want more:
<desrt> 1) canonical encoding (with non-canonical forms rejected)
<desrt> 2) a mapping that always succeeds
<desrt> you can't have both
<desrt> (right now we have neither...)
<desrt> i'd prefer a simple NULL return in the invalid case, though
<larsu> (2) can never be correct
<larsu> so ya, (1)
<desrt> so then return NULL if it's non-canonical
<larsu> I'd still accept the ambiguous ones like I do now
<larsu> desrt: this is what the code did before and I changed it ...
<larsu> but I think you convinced me
<desrt> my security spidy-sense is tingling here
<desrt> this is the sort of function that somebody somewhere is going to expose to people sending untrusted strings to it
<larsu> what bad can happen?
<desrt> i can imagine a few things
 * larsu listens
<desrt> one is that there is a whole class of attacks where non-equal-but-equivalent encodings can be used to attack systems
<desrt> which is why non-canonical-encoded utf8 is now rejected
<desrt> there have been all sorts of issues there in the past...
<desrt> the other is that we can cause crashes in the receiving program.... like with your p[2] issue in the patch
<larsu> this is never evaluated...
<larsu> if p[1] is 0
<larsu> and p[0] isn't in the loop
<desrt> ah.  interesting.
<larsu> so. you want a utf8 check?
<desrt> no
<desrt> i think i prefer the 'this is not utf8' annotation on the return value
<larsu> I didn't know that that is convention - if you have an untrusted string, check it before giving it to glib functions
<desrt> absolutely
<desrt> almost everything in glib assumes that it's getting valid utf8
<desrt> a/glib/glib world/
<larsu> if I return uint8*, won't that break the 99% case?
<desrt> you don't actually return guint8
<desrt> you just annotate that you do
<larsu> I want to put this into another string-processing function but now need to cast
<larsu> oh. what?
<desrt> * Returns: (transfer full) (array zero-terminated=1 length=length) (element-type guint8):
<desrt> something like that
<desrt> minus the 'length' crap
<larsu> but then I have the problem in bindings
<desrt> that will prevent python from assuming that the string is utf8 and trying to transcode it to unicode
<larsu> i.e., I get a byte in python, not a string
<desrt> you'll get a bytestring in python
<desrt> which is what you want....
<larsu> and then take a byte string in unescape() and return a string?
<desrt> yes
<larsu> interesting
<larsu> thanks
<desrt> i would be nice if we could use the kdbus transition as a time to relax object path rules
<larsu> desrt: do I need to annotate that in the same way?
<desrt> but i don't think it's really possible :/
<desrt> larsu: hm?
<larsu> the input parameter to unescape()
<desrt> yes
<desrt> wait.  no.
<desrt> that will always be a ascii string
<desrt> you need to annotate the input to escape() though
<desrt> in order to allow the wider range of stuff that could be in there
<larsu> the input to escape is a utf8 string...
<desrt> maybe it's a filename?
<larsu> it's docuemnted as must be a utf8 string
<larsu> (now)
<larsu> hm, I guess I misunderstood you before then
<larsu> I thought you meant escape() is utf8 -> bytestring and unescape() the other way around
<desrt> escape() is bytestring -> ascii (with heavy restrictions)
<desrt> unescape is therefore ascii -> bytestring
<larsu> and both of those need annotations on both input and return params?
<desrt> the ascii is fine as just a gchar*
<desrt> since ascii is a subset of utf8
<larsu> makes sense
<desrt> of course, if you find any characters out of the range of the object path rules (including non-ascii utf8 content) then it should be rejected...
<larsu> you just said I don't have to verify utf8-iness
<desrt> on return
<desrt> there's no way that an escaped string should have utf8 in it
<desrt> but an unescaped string may... or may not...
<larsu> why isn't it enough to escape byte-wise?
<desrt> it could be anything at all
<desrt> you _should_ escape bytewise
<larsu> that's what I'm doing..
<desrt> there should be absolutely nothing utf8-specific in these functions at all
<larsu> right. You just said I should reject non-ascii utf8 content
<desrt> i'm just noting that you should reject stuff according to the dbus rules (ie: outside of A-Za-z0-9_ or whatever) and this will automatically exclude non-ascii utf8 content
 * larsu is throroughly confused
<larsu> yes. That's what my plan was
<larsu> (and what the patch does right now)
<larsu> all that's missing are the annotations, then
<desrt> the patch you posted rejects nothing...
<larsu> it prints a critical
<desrt> andthing that's not a _ gets copied straight through...
<larsu> but ya, we already discussed that I'll change this to returning NULL, like I had before
<desrt> okay
<larsu> desrt: I changed it because I checked how systemd does it
<desrt> i think we're just confusing each other at this point -- i'll wait for the patches :)
<larsu> ya, I think so too
<larsu> sorry
<larsu> seb128: I'm having the "can't click inside windows anymore" problem again
<larsu> desrt: patch updated. Thanks for the feedback
<seb128> larsu, I don't even understand that bug, what do you mean by "can't click"?
<seb128> does it happen to all windows?
<larsu> seb128: yes. No mouse input events are forwarded to any windows.
<larsu> seb128: mouse input in unity works (panel, dash, ...). Keyboard works everywhere
<seb128> do you have a touch screen?
<seb128> does it do on any toolkit?
<seb128> e.g same issue in firefox?
<larsu> yes
<larsu> no touch screen
<larsu> definitely in every app
<seb128> k, no idea about that :-/
<larsu> me neither. It's annoying
<larsu> thanks tough
<larsu> *though
<seb128> np
<seb128> could be an xorg issue
<seb128> though that didn't change much
<seb128> but neither did compiz/unity
<desrt> larsu: new patch looks a lot better
<desrt> still some nit-picks though :)
<larsu> desrt: ah very good points. Thanks
<larsu> desrt: escape() is nullable?
<larsu> unescape is (and I documented is as such but forgot the (allow-none))
<desrt> i would imagine not
<desrt> maybe i botched the review
<desrt> nope -- look at the review.  the comments are filed inside the docstring for _unscape()
<larsu> desrt: ah sorry! I misread the escape() in the comment as the header, when it was the explanation
<larsu> desrt: what's the point of dismissing non-canonical encodings?
<desrt> "security"
<desrt> also consistency
<desrt> the gist is thus:
<desrt> someone might resonably assume that string comparison (or building hashtables, or anything else) on escaped strings is equivalent to doing it with the unescaped version
<desrt> and it ought to be
<larsu> man, I just cleaned up the loop, now I have two places to return an error from
<desrt> but if that assumption is false, someone could exploit it in unexpected ways
<larsu> thanks for pointing out the hi = lo = 0 one
<desrt> larsu: maybe not
<desrt> you could add another && to that already-long else if
<desrt> && (hi || lo) && !is_ascii((hi<<4)|lo)
<larsu> and do (hi << 4 | lo) three times?
<larsu> ya...
<desrt> your choice
<larsu> and then again in the append_c
 * larsu thinks
<desrt> btw: _strictly_ << and | are undefined on signed ints :)
<desrt> (erm.  maybe that's actually only true for signed ints that contain negative values.  i always forget...)
<larsu> I know, but then I thought about it and didn't care
<desrt> fair enough :)
<larsu> it's true in general, but we know the precise range for those numbers...
<larsu> desrt: thanks for explainign the non-canonical thing. Makes sense
<desrt> larsu: you used to be able to use utf8 to encode ascii characters like '.' and '/'
<desrt> or strings like "../../" for example
<desrt> you might imagine that this resulted in quite some fun
<larsu> ugh..
<desrt> now the rule is that you must take the shorest possible form
<desrt> which is ... just sane
<desrt> but pretty much everything that handles utf8 in glib-world doesn't do that check
<desrt> because it assumes it to already be valid
 * desrt engages in some black pointer magic
<desrt> let's hope valgrind doesn't get too upset...
<desrt> (one of those "i technically shouldn't read from this address but it's impossible for it to crash" cases)
<larsu> desrt: updated
<larsu> desrt: don't. Or better: Why???
<desrt> gvariant alignment requirements
<desrt> the problem comes with a message like ('a', 'b', 1234) where 'a' is sent as a memfd
<desrt> gvariant would encode that like so: 'a \0 'b \0 \4 \3 \2 \1 \2 \4, noting that the int \4\3\2\1 is at an offset that is a multiple of 4
<desrt> but if we take off the "a\0" from the start (because it's a memfd) then the \4\3\2\1 part now comes aligned at an offset of 2 mod 4 inside of the second message part
<desrt> so we have to cheat a bit when we allocate the buffer for our copy -- shifting it back two bytes
<desrt> the nice bit is that we only ever cheat by 7 bytes maximum and it will always result in a more-aligned pointer (since the kernel does the same thing for us) -- so we cannot possibly crash
<desrt> ...unless we're on a system that has a page size of less than 8 bytes
<desrt> larsu: arghghg. more annotation problems :(
<larsu> desrt: :( I'll fix those later. gotta run now
<desrt> larsu: thanks for all the work so far
<desrt> and apologies for so many roundtrips
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-30
<hikiko> Hello!
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<hikiko> hi pitti
<pitti> hey hikiko, how are you?
<hikiko> I'm fine, thanx pitti, and you? :)
<darkxst> hey pitti hikiko
<hikiko> hi darkxst how are you?
<darkxst> hikiko, I'm good
<darkxst> crazy storms here now, one of the chickens just got taken out by a cabbage leaf ;)
<pitti> hikiko: quite fine, thanks! had a nice first advent at home
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> pitti, salut pitti, comment Ã§a va !
<seb128> today is stollen day, yummy ;-)
<seb128> j'ai vu ton msg de hier, merci !
<darkxst> hey seb128
<seb128> hey darkxst
<darkxst> gnome-user-share update is on ubuntu-desktop ppa
<darkxst> though I don't think I can even actually break anything when 3.0.4 was completely broken everywhere!
<seb128> how broken?
<darkxst> seb128, completely
<seb128> since when?
<seb128> I don't even remember what it's supposed to do
<seb128> webdav shares?
<darkxst> webdav would have been broken since apache 2.4
<darkxst> the other bit handling bluetooth push, had broken notifications
<seb128> lol
<seb128> apache 2.4 was there before trusty
<seb128> tells how many users try the webdav thing :p
<seb128> I wonder if we should still try to SRU a fix
<darkxst> seb128, could sru the apcache fixes
<seb128> darkxst, btw why 3.14 and not 3.18? it seems that 3.18 only have translations updates compared to the previous one
<darkxst> seb128, 3.18 drops all bluetooth
<seb128> oh, they removed obexpush support
<seb128> it was removed in a point update apparently
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-user-share/tree/NEWS
<seb128> go GNOME
<darkxst> seb128, I didnt see any value going past 3.14
<darkxst> seb128, and that NEWS is wrong 3.14.2 still has the obexpush
<seb128> darkxst, k, wfm
<seb128> hey didrocks!
<seb128> you managed to connect!
<hikiko> ep hi seb128 and didrocks :)
<seb128> hey hikiko
<didrocks> hey seb128, hikiko!
<hikiko> :D
<didrocks> seems freenode decided to rejoin servers!
<darkxst> seb128, k, I will upload, even if there are regressions, its far better than what is there now
<seb128> darkxst, +1
<didrocks> I had my own #ubuntu-desktop for a while <3
<seb128> thanks for working on the update
<darkxst> didrocks, what use is your own irc channel ;)
<hikiko> hahaha netsplit?
<didrocks> darkxst: at least, nobody to contradict me! :p
<pitti> oh, I'm back!
<pitti> so again -- bonjour seb128 !
<didrocks> wb pitti! tu as aussi des problÃ¨mes sur freenode ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va didrocks !
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> J'ai eu cettes problÃ¨mes vendredi, mais aujourd'hui mon server Ã©tait cassÃ©
<didrocks> ah :/
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! nous avons eu un bon week-end et premier avent
<pitti> seb128: avez-vous goÃ»tÃ© le stollen ? :-)
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> pitti, oui, miam, il est trÃ¨s bon ! merci pour le msg hier ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: nous avons en manger au prochaine week-end aussi !
<didrocks> pitti: \o/
 * pitti donnes des accolades Ã  didrocks et seb128
<pitti> "donne"
 * didrocks donne une accolade en retour Ã  pitti
 * seb128 donne des accolades Ã  didrocks et pitti Ã©galement
 * didrocks fait de mÃªme Ã  seb128
<pitti> hugfest!
<seb128> Mirv, hey, are you working on landing the new qt to xenial?
<Mirv> seb128: hi, yes, do you need something?
<seb128> Mirv, no, just curious to know what's going on since I saw a few "no change rebuild" branches for e.g settings
<seb128> Mirv, also it seems buggy that clock has to drop the use of audioroles in preparation of an update, it means the update is going to be abi incompatible and break apps in the store?!
<Mirv> seb128: right, we've gone through all store apps because of that. the incompatibility is because we shipped something that was not submitted or accepted by upstream. when upstream accepted a version of the branch, we were already shipping our version for _stable_ users which is of course what should never happen. people should now know for better, and we agreed on this approach for the audio role prob
<Mirv> lem. the clock actually was to be patched first so that it supports both old and new, but it was argued that it shouldn't use the feature at all so it was dropped instead.
<seb128> Mirv, k
<Trevinho> Morning
<Mirv> seb128: well actually, it almost happened with QML Playlist again but I intervened the diverging from upstream and rc-proposed now has everything ported to the real upstream version of that one and two more bits are being upstreamed... these things happen when people change Qt without consulting with me :)
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> Hi seb128
<seb128> Trevinho, how are you?
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<seb128> I was looking for you on friday but I can't remember why now :p
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, I missed the ping... in the afternoon I was out for a while...
<seb128> Trevinho, no worry, I think it was about your new nautilus patch
<Trevinho> seb128: well, weekend passed. Nothing special. Just friends
<seb128> Trevinho, is that still needed since the copy dialog is not a standalone dialog anymore
<Trevinho> seb128: the last one was for the dialogs such as "empty trash" or, "want to overwrite this"?
<Trevinho> Which might not be shown on top
<willcooke> morning all
<Trevinho> morning willcooke
<Trevinho> I also think I forgot to add another improvement I had in mind... But now it's lost :-(
<seb128> Trevinho, I see
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Laney> hey hey
<seb128> hey Laney, you are early today!
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<Laney> YEP!
<Laney> we went to the cat cafe
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey pitti!
<hikiko> hi Laney :)
<hikiko> wtf disconnect every 2 minutes
<Laney> good thanks, tea + #ubuntu-desktop, what more could anybody want?
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> hi hikiko! how's it going?
<hikiko> fine :D you?
<pitti> Laney: good stollen along with the tea, of course!
<Laney> suuuuuuuper
<Laney> glad I didn't have to commute anywhere in the rain
<Laney> seb128: good weekend for you too?
<Laney> ha, it's that time
<Laney> need to get some
<seb128> Laney, yes! played tennis on saturday (there was a 3 hours round-playing event organized, quite some people came) and had dinner with friends and played board games in the evening
<Laney> sounds nice!
<seb128> sunday a bit less exciting, cold and rainy day, we went to ikea and did nothing special otherwise
<Laney> we played "ghost stories" too but got defeated in about 30 minutes
<Laney> stupid ghosts
<seb128> haha
<seb128> oh, and like pitti we had some good stollen :-)
<willcooke> Trevinho, seb128 - how are you guys fixed for a run through of the remaining rls-x-incoming bugs today?
<larsu_> good morning!
<willcooke> morning larsu_
<Trevinho> hi larsu_
<hikiko> hi larsu_
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh, right... Yeah, I should do it
<seb128> willcooke, should be fine, do you have a timeslot in mind?
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts?
<willcooke> Trevinho, seb128 how does 10am UTC (45 mins from now) work?
<Trevinho> willcooke: ok
<seb128> good for me
<willcooke> desktoppers: get involved ^
<willcooke> I'll put a HO link up later
<willcooke> hrm, my internet is slow.  Gonna reboot some gear...
<larsu> morning willcooke, Trevinho, hikiko and seb128!
<larsu> I'm great thanks :)
<larsu> in a train again, back home
<seb128> where did you spend the w.e?
<seb128> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/add-timestamp-operations/+merge/278748 ... is there any reason to not try to upstream it?
<larsu> seb128: Hamburg
<larsu> how are you all?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, in fact I wanted to propose it
<darkxst> hey willcooke
<darkxst> and larsu
<seb128> Trevinho, could you do it and update the patch header?
<larsu> hey darkxst
<Trevinho> seb128: well, maybe for upstream some more refactoring is doable
<seb128> Trevinho, also it would be good if there was some bug reference linked, so we know why we ship the patch
<Trevinho> but it was something I was considering
<seb128> larsu, good!
<Trevinho> seb128: didn't I do it? I thought i had
<Trevinho> or I didn't push it yet
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry, it's in the header
<seb128> just not linked to the mp
<seb128> Trevinho, would be good if you opened the upstream bug, even if you don't have a patch yet
<Trevinho> seb128: ah In my local copy I've https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1445595
<Trevinho> but I probably didn't push it
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1445595 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Empty trash from Launcher results in Nautilus window opening" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1417980 meant to be targeted?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1417980 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu Xenial) "Add support for unified Xorg input driver" [High,New]
<Laney> after the discussion last week
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<RAOF> seb128: You're welcome to sponsor colord-gtk to Debian if you'd like a new version soon :). It's got some binary NEW, so can't be source-uploaded; pitti's sid schroot is AWOL and my system decided to explode on Friday.
<larsu> hi Laney!
<pitti> RAOF: oh, my schroot is back, mvo fixed apt
<pitti> RAOF: so I can sponsor it now
<Laney> oh hi larsu, missed you coming in
<RAOF> pitti: Ah, sweet.
 * Laney doesn't read up far enough
<Laney> how was train-destination-land?
<seb128> RAOF, hey, seems pitti is on it, good ;-)
<willcooke> seb128, Laney -  good call, I'll untarget
 * RAOF is still not *entirely* sure how the W10 update killed all booting, but I can now boot into Ubuntu at least.
<larsu> Laney: very nice! Gotta say Sweet5hark wasn't lying about Hamburg ;)
 * RAOF also got to discover why my backups had been failing for the last couple of weeks! All manner of fun!
<Laney> I know nothing about this place
 * Sweet5hark looks at backlog.
<larsu> hehe :)
<willcooke> seb128, hrm, unsure how to untarget.  Do I remove the Xenial entry for each "Affects" package?
<seb128> willcooke, correct
<pitti> RAOF: uploaded
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> larsu: I thus assume you're in hamburg? welcome to the hanseatic city of olympic denial then!
<larsu> Sweet5hark: hahaha! Ya I spent the weekend there with my girlfriend
<larsu> she's working there for a couple of weeks
<larsu> but I'm on my way back now
<Sweet5hark> I guess you had a good variety of weather to go along: from (winter) sunshine to (mild) storm flood ...
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> managed to get some time for some walks through the city though
<larsu> which was nice
<larsu> (mostly st pauli and schanze though)
<larsu> those advertisments for pro olympia sure looked sad this morning :)
<Sweet5hark> pauli and schanze are a good choice for a walk.
 * larsu quite likes pauli
<Sweet5hark> mvo: around?
<mvo> Sweet5hark: yes
<Trevinho> seb128: in https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity/update-apport-hook/+merge/278774 upstart log for the "unity" package is added by default?
<seb128> Trevinho, there is no upstart job in the "unity" binary
<seb128> Trevinho, unity7.conf is in libunity-core-6.0-9
<Sweet5hark> mvo: heya! I recently looked at the snapcraft docs -- A few questions that left me with: 1/ There are multiple "parts" to a build. Is there a way to declare dependencies between these? 2/ In general I missed info about the exact order in which the different steps (fetch, build, stage) are intended to be executed. Is it fetchA fetchB buidA buildB stageA stageB or fetchA buildA stageA fetchB buildB ...?
<seb128> Trevinho, and yes if there was one it would be added
<Trevinho> seb128: oh right /usr/share/upstart/sessions/unity7.conf is provided by libunity-core-6.0-9...
<Trevinho> That's a mistake though :o
<Trevinho> shouldn't that be in unity package? together with source_unity.py?
<Trevinho> wow libunity-core provides so many unrelated thigns...
<seb128> I was a bit surprised to find it there as well
<Trevinho> mhmhmh... I think we should move those to "unity" or an unity-common pkg, isn't it?
<Trevinho> err unity-data
<Trevinho> it contains even the icons... o_O
<mvo> Sweet5hark: 1> you can use the "after" keyword to specify order 2> hm, if that is not documented sergio is the best person to talk to, we should add it to the docs. I don't know the answer myself without looking but iirc its fetchA, fetchB....
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> mvo, didn't land the new apt on friday after all? ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, yeah, unsure what's going on there
<seb128> Trevinho, maybe didrocks remembers
<seb128> Trevinho, also I remember now why I wanted to talk to you on friday!
<mvo> seb128: yeah, there was a unexpected regression on ubuntu due to our ld flags
<Trevinho> A possibility might be because libunitycore might need some gsettings schema, but that's the only thing I might think
<seb128> mvo, oh, ok
<seb128> Trevinho, could we drop the gconf backend?
<mvo> seb128: the -Bsymbolic- stuff broke but its fixed now
<mvo> seb128: so will happen today once debian accepts the 1.1.3 upload
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> seb128: indeed
<seb128> Trevinho, is that a "yes"? ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: it's a YES!
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> let's do it then!
<Trevinho> seb128: do you want the pleasure?
<seb128> Trevinho, not especially, you can have the honors
<Trevinho> mh, ok...
<Trevinho> However new gtest broke our builds of unity and compiz...
<seb128> thanks :-)
<seb128> oh :-(
<Trevinho> and well, for unity there's a workaround, but the compiz issue seems something we can't fix locally
<seb128> do we need to revert the gtest update?
<willcooke> just making tea, will get the HO up in a mo....
<willcooke> seb128, Trevinho ^
<Trevinho> k
<Sweet5hark> mvo: thx. TBH, I havent yet worked with this hands-on, but wanted to share my n00b feedback from reading the docs before doing that ...
<mvo> Sweet5hark: thanks, I am not the best person for snapcraft, sergio is the better one but I will pass your feedback on :)
<Sweet5hark> mvo: k
<willcooke> Trevinho, seb128 -   https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/will-cooke
<willcooke> desktoppers:  anyone who wants in on the rls-x-incoming remaining bugs triage ^^
<willcooke> list: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<davmor2> willcooke: see now I got this image of the desktop team as bobble heads on a desk, desktoppers :)
<willcooke> logging out and back in test my sticky edges ;)
<davmor2> willcooke: don't let your kids near the screen with jammy fingers I think will help with that :)
<willcooke> badum tish
<didrocks> seb128: argh, doko-style is bleeding out
<didrocks> seb128: steve has done an Unity upload (rebuild) without merging back to trunk
<seb128> I think some (including Steve) thinks no change uploads are fine
<seb128> since you can overwrite/drop those
<Laney> I always do those
<seb128> see ;-)
<seb128> it's a bit annoying
<seb128> I regularly got bitten by those, pull from the vcs, do you change, commit, push, build, dput
<seb128> get a reject email
<didrocks> I wonder if the force option is still available in CI Train?
<didrocks> (if it is, fine)
<seb128> uncommit, merge back upload, et
<seb128> yes
<Laney> wait
<Laney> dput?
<Laney> for train stuff?
<Trevinho> seb128: the patch is updated with upstream bug now
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks!
<seb128> Laney, no, I was more speaking about $vcs, not specific to CI train
<Laney> oh right, was speaking about train only
<Laney> try to remember to commit to normal vcs
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> Trevinho: Unity FTBFS on xenial (latest release), do you know about it? (I guess yeah, you may even have a silo prepared, but asking ;))
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, I was saying this before
<Trevinho> didrocks: I think new google mocks / tests broke both unity and compiz
<Trevinho> didrocks: Not sure why unity fails (it complains about an unused variable defined by a google tests macro)
<Trevinho> while compiz fails because of google-xorg-gtests..
<Trevinho> So.... It would be better to get that fixed at those levels
<didrocks> (simple variables being defined but not used)
<didrocks> Trevinho: are you looking into this?
<seb128> bah, GTK tables
<seb128> larsu, help!
<seb128> larsu, assuming you don't have apache2-bin installed, can you start gnome-file-share-properties and tell me if there is much spacing around the first label?
<seb128> editing /usr/share/gnome-user-share/file-share-properties.ui it and playing a bit with it, I think it makes space for the label as if it was wrapping
<Trevinho> didrocks: not yet... I will
<larsu> seb128: the spacing looks good to me...
<Trevinho> didrocks: as the not used variable is weird because they are inside a macro, which I'd expect to be "perfect"...
<seb128> larsu, :-(
<seb128> larsu, nothing like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160084656/Screenshot%20from%202013-12-18%2005%3A50%3A58.png then?
<seb128> weird
<larsu> ah
<larsu> yeah I have that
<larsu> I thought you meant horizontally
<larsu> and tbh, I didn't even notice this flaw - I thought it's a placeholder for a larger widget
<seb128> no, vertical, sorry
<larsu> ya, same issue here then
<didrocks> Trevinho: email sent about this, please have a look :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok, thanks
<seb128> larsu, if you remove the  x_options">GTK_SHRINK | GTK_FILL of webdav_info the labels is short and wrap on that height
<seb128> so I guess it's using that height computation
<seb128> but not adapting when doing the filling
<seb128> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/user.png
<seb128> what's the right way to fix that?
<seb128> setting a label width in char fixes it
<seb128> but then the width is matching the number not the window
<larsu> hm, this is weird indeed
<didrocks> Trevinho: thanks! (at least, you have context now ;))
<seb128> larsu, I guess upstream would say to port from GtkTable to GtkGrid
<seb128> just wondering if you know of a cheap trick
<larsu> ya, clearly :)
<larsu> trying a couple right now :)
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> I wonder why removing the x-options makes it shrink vertically
<Trevinho> didrocks: mh, I didn't get the mail I think, was it in a ML?
<seb128> it does
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/user.png
<seb128> doesn't
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> it shrinks horizontally
<larsu> right
<larsu> seems like gtktable wasn't tested properly with gtklabel
<larsu> and doesn't listen to all the new propoerties
<larsu> seb128: ya turning off wrapping makes it work
<larsu> but then it doesn't wrap :)
<larsu> I think you should do what we did in all the other cases: set a width-request
<larsu> to something reasonable
<larsu> or port to gtkgrid :P
<larsu> seb128: going to the gym and lunch now. Can help more later if you need
<seb128> larsu, thanks, I just wanted to know if I overlooked something obvious
<seb128> larsu, enjoy lunch&gym!
<didrocks> bah, forced to remove and readd a printer so that it's detected
<seb128> tiiiilll
<andyrock> good morning all
<Trevinho> seb128: how can I propose a distro-patch for gtest? I don't see a xenial branch... So should I just open a bug and attach the patch?
<Trevinho> or the debdiff
<seb128> Trevinho, yes, bug + debdiff
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> happyaron, hey, any news of the ibus update?
<Trevinho> seb128: what ! dpkg-source: Errore: cannot represent change to gtest_1.7.0.orig.tar.bz2: binary file contents changed :o
<seb128> Trevinho, did you change binary files?
<Trevinho> nope...
<seb128> is that a clean tree?
<Trevinho> not changed till may '14
<Trevinho> I added a patch and I was about to create te deb src
<Trevinho> ...
<seb128> weird
<seb128> try from a fresh unpack
<seb128> it doesn't tell you what files in the log?
<Trevinho> Mh, i try..
<Trevinho> but the md5sum matches with the old .dsc
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, now it goes... But... It complains about the maintainer not being an ubuntu one... Should I become it?
<Trevinho> seb128: also, should I set the proper release in changelog or unreleased?
<didrocks> Trevinho: use "DEBEMAIL=foo debuild/bzr"â¦
<Trevinho> nice trick
<didrocks> that will disable the check for building your package
<Laney> $ update-maintainer
<Laney> it's right to update it for ubuntu uploads
<Laney> (...please forward this fix upstream first...)
<Trevinho> Laney: it's taken from upstream
<didrocks> Laney: sometimes the projects have some @canonical address (unsure which package he's speaking about as I keep timing out), and yeah, it will still complain :p
<Trevinho> I've an ubuntu one, I'm just not an ubuntu dev...
<didrocks> Laney: I remember to have sent a patch ages ago, but I don't remember the reason for the rejection (I guess it was something like we shouldn't have @canonical in maintainer field)
<didrocks> but that was pre-unity and such
<Laney> This is gtest
<Trevinho> Uffffff... No still binary diff...
<Trevinho> I didn't change the binary! :-(
<seb128> Trevinho, I think https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/export-active-locations/+merge/278730 is buggy :-/
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah?
<seb128> Trevinho, if I do "nautilus -q; nautilus; ctrl-W" I get
<seb128> ERROR:nautilus-window-slot.c:2425:nautilus_window_slot_get_location: assertion failed: (slot != NULL)
<didrocks> ah, yeah, so update-maintainer if this will go in distro
<seb128> seems to not happen without that patch
<Trevinho> Mh, ah... I should protect on that
<Trevinho> I thought I added
<seb128> it works if you close with the mouse
<seb128> but not with ctrl-W
<Trevinho> yeah, as probably it takes some time to update the active slot in that case
<Trevinho> so it might fail
<seb128> can you please work on a fix for it when you are done with the other things you are doing?
<seb128> no hurry but we should fix before uploading 3.18
 * Trevinho goes to lunch, then back to the debian packaging lands....
 * seb128 is going for lunch
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> Trevinho, enjoy!
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> you too
<didrocks> Trevinho: no issue with gtests here, you didn't try a local build first, just unpack/apply your patch/build?
<didrocks> (if so, please pastebin it)
<happyaron> seb128: will upload shortly, didn't have my yubikey with me during day time (for pgp key)
<Laney> hi didrocks!
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> phew
<didrocks> I wonder if some server didn't blacklist some IP range if they received some DDOS last week
<didrocks> and maybe my ISP is in the rangeâ¦
<asac> heya, is there any "safe/high quality" ppa to get cmake 3.x on 14.04?
<asac> didrocks: ?
<didrocks> asac: I'm currently looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=cmake if I see anything high-standard/trusted
<didrocks> (as it's not in trusty-backport)
<didrocks> asac: ok, the only ppa I would trust in this list (and which has cmake >= 3.0  on 14.04 LTS) is https://launchpad.net/~smspillaz/+archive/ubuntu/cmake-master
<didrocks> from our previous compiz maintainer :)
<didrocks> (and still updating)
<asac> hmmm... ok
<willcooke> Laney knows all the best servers
<Trevinho> seb128: as for the export-active-locations nautilus branch, is uncommit/overwrite fine or want a new branch or what?
<seb128> Trevinho, new branch please, there were other changes commited to the vcs since
<Trevinho> k
<Trevinho> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nautilus/export-active-locations-warning-fix/+merge/278983
<mterry> seb128, didrocks: fyi, I uploaded a new deja-dup this weekend, and dropped duplicity down to a Suggests
<xnox> does, or does not, desktop own e.g. bug #1521226
<Trevinho> mterry: what's using now? :o
<ubot5> bug 1521226 in libaccounts-glib (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on all arches in xenial" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521226
<xnox> desrt, ^ looks glibish.
<mterry> Trevinho, say what?
<didrocks> mterry: yeah, I saw that, great! :)
<seb128> xnox, talk to mardy
<didrocks> mterry: fyi, I again had some issue with duplicity today though :/
<Trevinho> mterry: I mean, isn't using duplicity anymore?
<xnox> seb128, which timezone is that in, usually?
<xnox> or different channel?
<seb128> xnox, mardy? european, he's on #ubuntu-devel
<mterry> Trevinho, it still uses duplicity, it just can install it on demand if necessary
<desrt> bonne journee, tout le monde!
<mterry> Trevinho, but this way, we don't have to ship it on the image (helping us avoid python2 on default installs)
<didrocks> bonjour desrt !
<desrt> je suis en montreal!
<seb128> salut desrt!
<seb128> desrt, passe le bonjour Ã  Xavier
<desrt> xclaesse: ^ :)
<Trevinho> mterry: ah, ok... That's what I was wondering in a second thought :)
 * didrocks shows up his missing space between "t" and "!"
<seb128> mterry, you could have written a bit of a description of what changed in the new upstream version
<seb128> mterry, does it fix the control center segfault?
<mterry> seb128, ah right!  I forgot it fixed that or would have looked for a bug.  Do we have a bug for that yet?
<xnox> seb128, thanks that worked =)
<seb128> xnox, yw!
<seb128> mterry, bug #1443876 seems to match the e.u.c reports
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1443876 could not be found
<xclaesse> seb128, salut :)
<seb128> xclaesse, lut ;-)
<willcooke> My clock looks different.  Maybe font related Laney?  Do you see anything different?
<willcooke> trying to put my finger on what's changed...
 * didrocks pictures willcooke pointing at his screen
<seb128> willcooke, screenshot?
<davmor2> willcooke: on phone or desktop?
<willcooke> davmor2, desktop, natch
<davmor2> willcooke: looks the same here, I ask because phone changed it's top bar slightly to look more like desktop so that can throw you slightly
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/El3rkBL
<davmor2> willcooke: ah mine looks slightly different cause I have the date and seconds on mine but the hours and minute look the same as mine
<davmor2> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/clock.png
<willcooke> davmor2, ah yes.  If you turn on "Date and month" the font size increases slightly
<willcooke> by the looks of things
<willcooke> but on 14.04 the font stays the same size
<willcooke> seb128, can you try this again and if it looks better in Radiance now I will put a MP up for it
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/notebooktabs
<seb128> willcooke, ok
<willcooke> seb128, no hurry
<willcooke> larsu, also low priority - check this one:  https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/gtk2scrollbartrough
<willcooke> my gnome-terminal one is pretty much ready as well, but before I lose track of where I am I'd like those others out the way
<Trevinho> larsu: could you upload https://launchpadlibrarian.net/228006749/gtest_1.7.0-4ubuntu1.dsc.diff ?
<Trevinho> err see bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtest/+bug/1521177
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1521177 in gtest (Ubuntu) "TEST_P fails with new G++ because of Property_CopyBaseTypeConstructor_Test::gtest_registering_dummy_' defined but not used" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> s/larsu/Laney/ ^
 * Trevinho didn't tab enough times... :P
<didrocks> didn't take any break today, I guess it's time to sign off :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<willcooke> cya didrocks
<didrocks> see you willcooke!
<larsu> willcooke: shouldn't we change the color of gtk 3 scrollbars as well?
<willcooke> ah, I left those because of the overlay SBs
<willcooke> but yeah, we should
<willcooke> lemme sort that
<larsu> thanks
<flocculant> mpt: I commented in detail on the bug - but gedit gives me thin if I choose light, both in xubuntu and ubuntu
<mpt> thanks
<Laney> willcooke: it looks like it's a bit squashed
<Laney> file it ubuntu-bug ubuntu-font-family-sources
<willcooke> thx Laney
 * Laney juju destroy-service appstream-dep11 && redeploy
<Laney> so changes, much broken
<willcooke> seb128, on your Inspiron, are you seeing wifi and BT getting disable and not re-enabled on suspend/resume a lot?  Not every time, but 1 in 2 or so
<seb128> willcooke, never paid attention with bluetooth but I had issues with wifi where I need to reboot to have aps listed yes
<willcooke> I guess a kernel issue.  I'll log a bug
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> seb128: did you end up fixing that sharing window?
<seb128> larsu, not yet, got carried on other things, I'm just probably going to set a width of 60 chars or something
<larsu> sounds reasonable to me
<larsu> is that still maintained?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> well "maintained"
<seb128> the webdav thing works fine
<seb128> and upstream moved the obexpush out
 * larsu nods
<seb128> they updated if for the new apache some time ago
<seb128> and hadess does roll tarballs with translations updates
<seb128> oh, mvo uploading the new apt
<seb128> I hear that the new apt is cool ;-)
<mvo> seb128: its the best!
<seb128> :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: can you check https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1521177 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1521177 in gtest (Ubuntu) "TEST_P fails with new G++ because of Property_CopyBaseTypeConstructor_Test::gtest_registering_dummy_' defined but not used" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> (upload the patch, I mean :P)
<seb128> Trevinho, lookin
<seb128> Trevinho, did you forward the change to Debian? we are in sync with them and would be nice to keep it like that if we can
<seb128> Trevinho, also you have a debian/patches/patch which I guess can be cleaned out?
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, right
<Trevinho> that patch was  a temp
<Trevinho> seb128: how can I forward that? /me newbie
<seb128> Trevinho, https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<seb128> you might want to configure reportbug or something
<seb128> I use email
<seb128> send to submit@bugs.debian.org
<seb128> Package: <package
<seb128> Version: <version>
<seb128> and you type your description
<seb128> with an appropriate title
<seb128> Trevinho, I cleaned the patch file and uploaded to unblock Unity, please still forward to Debian then so maybe we can sync back later
<seb128> and on that note I'm calling it a day
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers!
<willcooke> see ya seb128
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks, have a nice evening!
<timppa_> Hi
<timppa_> currently on Ubuntu 16.04 and I'd like to create some launchers on Mir/Unity8
<timppa_> are there any guides available on doing such things? :D
<timppa_> basically to run legacy X11 apps
<seb128> willcooke, btw your notebook theme tweaks is better, no side impact on other widgets, I'm unsure I like it though, it's good when the windows is unfocussed but a bit too strong on active windows imho
<seb128> like you get 3 different colors for titlebar, focussed tab, unfocussed
<willcooke> oki, that's good to know
<willcooke> I found having the active tab the same colour as the title bar was too dark
<willcooke> let's get Design input :)
<seb128> willcooke, well, at least you have something working, they can give us a better color value to use if that's all what needs changing now
<seb128> on that note really calling it a day
<seb128> night
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, and easy to tweak in the inspector
<willcooke> g'night seb128
<larsu> seb128: night!
<Sweet5hark> oh, there's freenode!
<Laney> byeee
<willcooke> night Laney
<willcooke> I'm going afk until Robert wakes up
<robert_ancell> willcooke, bug 1287640
<ubot5> bug 1287640 in ubuntuone-credentials (Ubuntu) "UbuntuOne account plugin does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287640
<willcooke> thanks robert_ancell
<willcooke> rather looks like:  http://41.media.tumblr.com/7860aa18a1086834a05942dcc486c8cc/tumblr_n218vvbOsu1so2h9go1_1280.jpg
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hah
<larsu> morning robert_ancell!
<larsu> how are you?
<robert_ancell> larsu, good, yourself?
<robert_ancell> Up late?
<larsu> robert_ancell: great. Had a train trip and gym + long lunch this afternoon, so I'm catching up a bit now
<robert_ancell> Chipaca, is the repository for snappy on github?
<Chipaca> robert_ancell: yes
<robert_ancell> Chipaca, so lp:snappy is n/a?
<Chipaca> robert_ancell: github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy
<Chipaca> robert_ancell: i'm not sure how often it's synced back
<robert_ancell> Chipaca, also, is there a PPA to install daily builds?
<Chipaca> yes, the tools ppa, 1 sec
<Chipaca> https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/tools
<robert_ancell> Chipaca, awesome, thanks!
<Chipaca> robert_ancell: we've had a ftbfs in arm for the last few days, needs digging
<Chipaca> robert_ancell: and xenial has dailies, or should have
<robert_ancell> Chipaca, yeah, they look like they've built fine
<willcooke> g'nigth all
<willcooke> spelling!
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-12-01
<pitti> Good morning!
<pitti> Laney: hmm, I'm getting dead.letter files on the adt control host, the MAILTO= in the cronjob doesn't seem to work
<pitti> oh, comma separated!
<hikiko> Hi
<pitti> Laney: FYI, lcy01 is dead again, disabled
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va /
<pitti> ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais trÃ¨s bien, merci !
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<didrocks> morning seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> happyaron, hey, did you see that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx-qt5/1.0.4-1 failed to build on some archs?
<happyaron> seb128: yep, but there's another report saying wait for Qt5.5 to land
<seb128> k
<seb128> Mirv is working on that it seems
<happyaron> yep, should be a Qt problem, I looked at the build but finds few can be done
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> bonjour!
<larsu> Ã§a va?
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> hey larsu! Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<larsu> seb128: sehr gut danke!
<seb128> larsu, notify-osd tests are grumpy
<didrocks> bonjour larsu :)
<seb128> larsu, there is one trying to load an icon from ../icons, or your fix doesn't allow for relative paths
<seb128> larsu, unsure if we should just declare that one stupid and change it?
<larsu> bonjour didrocks! Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<larsu> seb128: ya, this is clearly stupid. notify-osd doesn't know the cwd of the process that calls it and can thus not resolve a relative path
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
 * larsu is amazed that this was possible before
<larsu> seb128: want me to remove that one?
<seb128> larsu, can you update https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/1520667/+merge/278861 to drop the buggy test?
<seb128> larsu, yes please
<larsu> moin moin pitti! Wie gehts?
<larsu> seb128: sure
<seb128> danke
<pitti> or fix the test to make the path absolute, or just a name so that it gets looked up in the standard dirs?
<pitti> transmitting relative paths over d-bus is bogus indeed
<pitti> larsu: supi, danke! Zeit fuer Fruehstuck, also Stollen :)
<larsu> mhhh lecker!
<seb128> right, that test is a i18n
<seb128> so better to rather update to use an non relative path
<seb128> in fact just not setting an icon looks should be enough?
<larsu> "wait_a_little()" sigh
<seb128> lol
<larsu> what exactly is this test testring?
<larsu> that the API works?
<seb128> no idea, notify-osd...
<larsu> ya, I'm removing the icon
 * larsu makes some breakfast
<larsu> ugh, why do the tests show notifications on my system?!
<larsu> what is this even testing?
<seb128> likely a bug
<seb128> and since they are queuing they spam your notify-osd for a while
<seb128> I killed it to flush the queue
<larsu> ya, that's what's happening right now
<larsu> "you should see a bubble"
<larsu> if I don't see it, how do I know the test failed?
<seb128> quality software!
<seb128> let's just drop the set_icon lines and move to something else
 * larsu just pushed a better patch
<seb128> before you itch to rewrite notify-osd again :p
<larsu> becaue it uses that in multiple locations
<larsu> and I don't know if I'd "break" the tests if I removed all of the icons
<larsu> please test ;)
<seb128> I drop the 3 set_icons calls in that file and make check was green
<seb128> k, let me try your change
<seb128> larsu, yep, that makes make check work, thanks
<larsu> yw!
<seb128> d-feet ships translations but displays untranslated but seems nobody ever noticed
 * didrocks just sent to u-devel the great default language selection email!
<didrocks> let's see how it goes :)
<Trevinho> morning
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi didrocks
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> hi seb128!
<Trevinho> seb128: you know I already need your powers ? :)
<Trevinho> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-gtest/+bug/1521366
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1521366 in xorg-gtest (Ubuntu) "Compiz fails to build tests with recent g++ and xorg-gtest" [High,In progress]
<seb128> oh
<Trevinho> It's actually probably a pkgconfig thing, though..
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks for forwarding the gtest one to Debian btw!
<Trevinho> seb128: thank you
<willcooke> $GREETINGS
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Trevinho> hi willcooke
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> $HEY $BOSS
<seb128> I meant
<willcooke> :D
<happyaron> $GREETINGTOBOSS
<Trevinho> seb128: the fact that even $HEY is a var might be risky...
<didrocks> all those ubound variables creates headaches here :p
<Trevinho> you know... if you define HEY=badword... :-D
<didrocks> unbound*
<seb128> Trevinho, security issue, can be used to fire somebody!
<Trevinho> yeah :D
<Laney> morning!
<Laney> HEY=sudo BOSS="pay laney all the money"?
<Trevinho> lol
<Trevinho> morning rich Laney !
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Trevinho, can you forward that xorg-gtest change upstream as well?
<Laney> hey seb128 and Trevinho!
<Trevinho> seb128: I was thinking about... I got just lazy :-D
<Laney> well don't >:(
<Laney> or your colleagues have to maintain it forever >:(
<Trevinho> seb128: I'll do it, I just didn't do that last night as it was already late
<Trevinho> Laney: I love my colleagues
<Laney> hey pitti
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<Laney> lcy01> oh noes
<Laney> sup didrocks
<didrocks> Laney: good good, I guess I just avoided catching another cold (feeling good today, no more things in the throat)
<didrocks> guess it was a good bet to not run yesterday :p
<Laney> it's that clean Lyon air
<didrocks> how are you?
<Laney> breathe deep!
<didrocks> Laney: right! :)
<Laney> feeeeeeeeeeeeling good
<didrocks> http://www.airqualitynow.eu/fr/comparing_city_details.php?lyon
<Laney> fingers are reminding me that I climbed last night
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> haha
<didrocks> Laney: ahah, nice :p
<Laney> YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<Laney> I'm going to buy a big bag of rice
<Laney> http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/way-iron-fist
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> what's happening?
<Laney> did you win the scottish quiz?
<seb128> Trevinho, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/228039152/xorg-gtest_0.7.1-0ubuntu2.debdiff
<Trevinho> seb128: if you want to wait and fix that patch for me, I can forward it and you fix the DEP-3
<larsu> didn't go last night
<seb128> do we need to escape the " at all?
<larsu> was sleepy :)
<larsu> Laney: how about you?
<Trevinho> seb128: the thing is that we need it to output -D\"STRING\" ...
<Trevinho> seb128: old pkg-config was doing it with just using \"STRING\"...
<Trevinho> seb128: with recent one, we need to do \\\"STRING\\\" to get \"STRING\"
<Trevinho> no idea why
<seb128> I'm not good with this things
<seb128> maybe didrocks or Laney or pitti know what's right there?
<Trevinho> seb128: compare the output of
<Trevinho> pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest
<Trevinho> in xenial and wily/trusty....
<seb128> what changed? pkgconfig?
<Trevinho> I guess so, although I don't see much in the changelog
<didrocks> seb128: hum, let me look at context
<Trevinho> didrocks: so... compiz fails to build because the CPPflags it gets from xorg-gtest doesn't include the properly escaped string
<Trevinho> I've fixed the xorg-gtest.pc, as pkg-config seems to act differently to what it used to be
<Trevinho> It might even be a pkg-config bug, btw...
<didrocks> let me look at the .pc and .pc.in from this package, one sec
<Laney> larsu: great!
<Trevinho> trusty $ pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest
<Trevinho> -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/xorg -I/usr/src/xorg-gtest -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=\"/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf\" -DLOGFILE_DIR=\"/tmp\"
<Trevinho> xenial $ pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest
<Trevinho> -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/xorg -I/usr/src/xorg-gtest -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf -DLOGFILE_DIR=/tmp
<didrocks> cd why would you need escape in -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH for instance, you don't have blank space or any IFS
<didrocks> so it seems xenial pkg-config behavior is right
<didrocks> might be compiz which tries to unescape things?
 * didrocks looks at compiz and how it got those variables
<Trevinho> definition is...
<Trevinho> CPPflags=-I${includedir} -I${includedir}/xorg -I${sourcedir} -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=\"@DUMMY_CONF_PATH@\" -DLOGFILE_DIR=\"@LOGFILE_DIR@\"
<Trevinho> didrocks: no... compiz is not wrong
<seb128> why do you need the "" in there?
<Trevinho> pkg-config gets the thing with no quotes
<didrocks> which sounds ok, you don't have spaces or any IFS
<didrocks> as I say
<didrocks> so "" or no quotes should be the same
<didrocks> (for compiz cmake)
<Trevinho> didrocks: it's a compiler-defined string, it has to have quotes
<Trevinho> I'd expect to get: -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=\"/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf\" (as it used to be)
<Trevinho> not -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf
<Trevinho> or... -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH="/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf" would be also wrong
<Trevinho> as the shell would unquote that
<seb128> but again, why do you need the quotes?
<didrocks> yeah, I still disagree you need quotes
<Laney> because you quote strings in c
<Trevinho> yeah
<didrocks> Laney: well, this is not c, this is a compiler call where you pass args
<Trevinho> without quotes, they're just considered as define FOO bar, where bar is not a string, but a symbol
<Laney> it's the same as #define FOO BAR
<Trevinho> exactly
<didrocks> Trevinho: ah, you mean those variables are seeded directly in config.h?
<Trevinho> no, they're passed to g++
<seb128> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pkg-config/commit/?id=50c2867f4a6981e085c721d936c96f174f11f415
<seb128> is the behaviour change
<Trevinho> so when you do g++ -DFOO=bar file.c it's like you do #define FOO bar in foo.c
<seb128> git bisect ftw ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: lovely
<Trevinho> So, if that would have defined as cflags, there were no reason for this
<Trevinho> I guess I can forward the patch now
<didrocks>  # expect cflags from whitespace
<didrocks>  RESULT='-Dlala=misc -I/usr/white\ space/include -I$(top_builddir) -Iinclude\ dir -Iother\ include\ dir'
<didrocks> -> they expect -Dlala=misc
<seb128> Laney, does the \\\ look right to you?
<didrocks> not -Dlala="misc" though
<seb128> didrocks, right, because "it's likely the value will be used verbatim in shell command substitution"
<seb128> which I'm not sure it's true
<seb128> well it's not in the current situation it seems
<didrocks> seb128: I wonder if the issue isn't that one but rather than cmake pkgconfig shouldn't handle the case for non shell command substitution
<Trevinho> didrocks: I was wondering the same, but it's not
<Trevinho> didrocks: since if you launch pkg-config in shell manually it's different anyway
<Trevinho> didrocks: also, cmake would change the whole CPPflag  string, not only a part of it
<Trevinho> ouch, there's no xorg-gtest project on fdo bugzilla
<seb128> yeah, I couldn't find one either, report on xorg others?
<Laney> I don't see the same behaviour as you btw
<Trevinho> Laney: no?
<seb128> Laney, which part is different?
<Trevinho> seb128: I guess it's https://bugs.freedesktop.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=X.org%20integration%20tests
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595672/
<Laney> that should break right?
<didrocks> yep
<Trevinho> Laney: no untill you use that variable in code
<Trevinho> ah, sorryu
<didrocks> hum, he's using it, no?
<Trevinho> I didn't read the code :-D
<Trevinho> only gcc side :D :D
<didrocks> ahah
<Laney> it has quotes for me
<didrocks> Laney: you didn't print your output of pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest
<Trevinho> well it works for me as well with wrong output
<Trevinho> mh
<Trevinho> So, one possibility is to make cmake to requote it... But it doesn't look wrong when generating the make files
<Trevinho> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595755/
<Trevinho> and this is the failure http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595768/
<Laney> the whole thing gets 'single quoted' http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595769/
<Trevinho> Laney: ah
<didrocks> yeah, only the escape is stripped
<Trevinho> it's weird that just running it in shell it doesn't get the quotes out
<Trevinho> so....... mh
<Laney> who is putting them in>?
<Laney> pkg-config itself?
<Trevinho> in what?
<Trevinho> ah, you mean inside the single quotes?
<Trevinho> I guess it's pkg-config at this point... But it does it in a subshell not when calling it directly
<Trevinho> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595832/
<Sweet5hark> Im probably very late to the party but yesterday I configured my first user service units and timers with systemd and its pretty awesome ...
<Trevinho> seb128: in the mean time we've a different solution https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93191
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 93191 in * Other "xorg-gtest CPPflags string aren't properly stripped with new pkg-config" [Normal,New]
 * Trevinho wrote wrong title
<seb128> Trevinho, that seems similar to the patch you suggested on launchpad earlier?
<Trevinho> seb128: it's the same
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> k, I was wondering
<Trevinho> seb128: Maybe there's a different solution, but in the mean time...
<seb128> you tried to trick me with your "we've a different solution" :p
<seb128> oh
<Trevinho> I mean I've no clue why this output is different...
<Laney> I think you should talk to a pkg-config upstream person
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, wdyt? is that change harmless? or any better suggestion?
<didrocks> seb128: I don't really like we don't get to the end of it
<didrocks> I wonder if the issue isn't in cmake pkgconfig module
<didrocks> IIRC, this one doesn't exist and it's a copy from project to project
 * didrocks looks
<Laney> compiz is executing pkg-config itself
<seb128> yeah, me neither, I just don't know how things are supposed to be escaped, so unsure what is right/wrong there
<didrocks> Laney: compiz cmakerie you meant?
<Laney> yes
<Trevinho> it's there yes
<Trevinho> but I didn't see anything wrong
<Trevinho> didrocks: as I posted the generated makefile have the proper strings
<didrocks> Trevinho: what you pasted has single quote, no?
<didrocks> Trevinho: and are not escaped
<didrocks> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595755/ and http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13595768/
<willcooke> hey bzoltan_
<didrocks> so, they makefile generated are not right?
<bzoltan_> hello willcooke
<Laney> yay new notify-osd
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, bzoltan_ has a couple of questions about the Doc Viewer click that you might be able to help with, or point him to the man who knows more?
<Laney> I was just going to ask about that
<Trevinho> didrocks: what I meant is that cmake doesn't delete or add anything... It just puts there what it gets from pkg-config
<bzoltan_> So, Sweet5hark :) you are the dude who is knowledgeble about libreoffice click package... is that correct?
<didrocks> Trevinho: brb
<willcooke> Laney, trying to join the HO but failing......  bear with me
<Laney> willcooke: oh shit
<Laney> give me 2
<willcooke> :)
<Sweet5hark> bzoltan_: somewhat, I didnt do the click package itself. I just created the *.deb (libreoffice-vanilla) that is the base for the click.
<bzoltan_> Sweet5hark: What I am most interested is the container and click packaging of an X11 app. Do you know who I should talk to?
<davmor2> willcooke: that sounds suspiciously like Laney forgot, or just didn't want management there to ruin it with sensibility ;)
<willcooke> :)
 * Laney puts pants on
<davmor2> Laney: oh okay now it all makes sense
<Sweet5hark> bzoltan_: likely I cant help you much there (yet). I just threw a *.deb with a little deps as possible over the fence and then popey and friends picked it up from there ...
 * popey wakes up
<czajkowski> Laney: classy :)
<popey> bzoltan_, what you wanna know?
<bzoltan_> popey: I managed to reach the same point with the Ubuntu SDK IDE as Sweet5hark with the libreOffice... I have a single .deb package what has almost no dependencies. Now I would like to create a click package what comes with a container where i can put build tools and stuff... I want to create phone apps on the phone when the phone is in windowed mode with keyboard and external display.
<popey> bzoltan_, are these X11 apps that you expect to run with XMir?
 * Sweet5hark lurks on bzoltan_ questions, as they likely are relevant for him soon too.
<bzoltan_> popey: yes, very much X11
<popey> Then I can't help, you need bregma / kgunn / ctownsend
<popey> The libreoffice package we have isn't X, it runs as a command line tool, no X output
<bzoltan_> popey: ohh, I see. Thank you :) I go after these guys
<popey> sorry :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: that's not really the case
<didrocks> Trevinho: it's not passing which pkg-config is giving directly
<didrocks> as on my xenial, it's giving:
<didrocks> pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest.pc
<didrocks> -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/xorg -I/usr/src/xorg-gtest -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH=\"/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf\" -DLOGFILE_DIR=\"/tmp\"
<didrocks> (I even retried on a clean freshly deboostrapped chroot to ensure it's not a local config issue)
<didrocks> so properly escaped
<didrocks> and after cmake -> the makefile will issue the call, giving unescape sequence
<seb128> didrocks, how do you run that command?
<didrocks> seb128: the one above ^ ("pkg-config --variable=CPPflags xorg-gtest.pc")
<seb128> oh, fun
<seb128> $ pkg-config --variable=CPPflags /usr/lib/pkgconfig/xorg-gtest.pc
<seb128> -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/xorg -I/usr/src/xorg-gtest -DDUMMY_CONF_PATH="/usr/share/xorg/gtest/dummy.conf" -DLOGFILE_DIR="/tmp"
<seb128> on my xenial
<didrocks> interestingâ¦
<didrocks> so, the only different is that I have a locally extracted xorg-gtest.pc
<seb128> pkg-config --version?
<didrocks> let me install the distro one, but it's the same version
<seb128> I gave it the system location one
<didrocks> 0.28
<seb128> that's why
<didrocks> yeah, it's in 0.29
<didrocks> I'm unsure why I have that 0.28 version
<didrocks> I'm using stgraber launchpad download tool for my schroot
<didrocks> but it seems even on xenial, it downloaded a wily one!
<didrocks> (even if I specify a xenial version)
 * didrocks wants his money back
<seb128> haha
<andyrock> morning
<seb128> hey andyrock
 * didrocks ditch this and do a good old debootstrap
<didrocks> ok, seeing the unescape sequence now
<Trevinho> the.... Problem is that with the "fix", the laney's example doesn't work anymore... mhmh
<Laney> go talk to upstream
<didrocks> yeah, let me try Laney's example first
<Laney> srsly
<didrocks> if that work here as well, I this the issue should really be discussed with pkg-config's upstream
<didrocks> as we are missing something in the way it's executed
<Trevinho> they should have added a pkg-config --variable-unscaped instead of breaking old stuff though
<Laney> I doubt they intended to break things
<Trevinho> sure, also because this is a corner case
<Trevinho> but, you know... Beakage is always right behind the corner
<Laney> so probably if you explain the case to them you will get a sensible answer
<Trevinho> breakage
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, confirming Laney's example. So, I think the issue is something in the way cmake/the generated make is invoking gcc
<didrocks> I guess yeah, giving a simple reproduceable case with our build tool
<didrocks> and talk to them
<Laney> I would prefer reverting the pkg-config commit meanwhile than some hack elsewhere
<didrocks> +1
<Laney> but even that after talking to upstream or at least foundations
<Trevinho> yeah
<Trevinho> who does that? :ð
<didrocks> you? :p
<Laney> I know that Mithrandir does pkg-config stuff
<Laney> and maintains the package
<Laney> not sure about the guy who committed this change
 * Laney screams at g-i test failure
<Laney> YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FIXED!
<Trevinho> Laney: so you know people... ;)
<Laney> dude!
<Trevinho> didrocks: mh, ok... Well I've to drive back to Florence now, I'll do this later
<Laney> be brave
<Laney> I believe in you
 * didrocks sees Laney's flags "Marcoooooooooooooooooooo"
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> Trevinho, have a safe drive!
<Trevinho> thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, let us know when you have opened an upstream pkg-config report
<seb128> Trevinho, how much is that blocking compiz/unity work?
<seb128> I wonder if we should revert the pkgconfig commit meanwhile
<seb128> or wait a bit for upstream to respond
<Laney> I would wait, but that's just me
<Laney> well actually I would talk to them directly instead of opening a bug first :)
<seb128> do they have a channel?
<seb128> no #pkgconfig or #pkg-config
<seb128> on this IRC at least
<Laney> don't know, I gave a nickname though
<seb128> right, it's a bit weird to ping people on don't know though
<seb128> oh well, Trevinho can figure it out
<Laney> there's a mailing list too
<seb128> Laney, and it's easier for us to wait, we don't do one thing, if you were coding on one project and couldn't build on the infra it would be annoying
<Laney> well you can do what you think is best
<Laney> I only am one person giving an opinion at the end of the day
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm going to wait for Trevinho to be back and say how much it's blocking them
<seb128> but I'm leaning toward just doing the revert to unblock, I hate to see unity work staling because they are fighting with distro issues rather than coding
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> if this is a revert that we carry forever then that's not a good way out imo
<Laney> I think I could be replaced by a bot at this point
<seb128> right, I'm not saying to not forward it upstream/discuss with them
<seb128> but yeah, we are going round
<Laney> :)
<seb128> let's move on, plan of action is to talk to upstream but I'm going to unblock unity work as well if the upstream discussion doesn't get immediate traction
<Laney> that's up to you
<seb128> larsu, I saw you talking with Company on #gtk+ yesterday about screenshot, was there an issue with your gtk change?
<seb128> larsu, also did we fix the segfault issue it created? the SRU is verification-failed, unsure what to do with it
<seb128> either we fix that changeset or drop it, the SRU is meant to fix the tooltips round corners as well which was supposed to be a SRU landing around release time
<larsu> seb128: hm, that's unrelated, no?
<seb128> what and what?
<larsu> ya, Company thinks the patch  was wrong (and has a good point)
<larsu> we already have a plan
<larsu> seb128: tooltips and screenshots
<seb128> right
<seb128> we just batched them in the same SRU
<seb128> which failed verification because of the screenshot segfault
<seb128> so we either need to unbatch now
<Laney> oh, just tested the compiz build in sbuild and it worked
<seb128> or to resolve the screenshot one so they can be verified
 * Laney checks it runs the tests
<larsu> seb128: ah, let me fix that
<Laney> NO!
<Laney> THE HORROR!
<didrocks> zomg, push the red "NO TESTS RAN" button
<seb128> larsu, well, if the gtk patch is incorrect maybe it's not a good idea to SRU it and we should pull it out?
<larsu> seb128: indeed. I'll have an updated one soon
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> Laney, can you tell britney to try the poppler transition with the gdal one? it doesn't seem to try to combine them but that's needed
<Laney> bet something's missing
<Laney> it usually doesn't need telling that kind of thin
<Laney> g
<Laney> let me look
<seb128> well the transition is incomplete for sure
<seb128> but the poppler blob lists things like vtk6 which I don't think need a rebuild
<seb128> it's just part of the gdal one
<seb128> hum, gdal might need a rebuild though
 * seb128 tries that
<Laney> indeed it does
<seb128> Laney, thanks
 * Laney stabs
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13597271/
<bregma> bzoltan_, you may be interested in https://launchpad.net/puritine
 * seb128 goes for lunch outside and going to work from a cafe, taking the laptop with me and so dropping offline for a bit
<Laney> laters
<seb128> see you ;-)
<Laney> dear schroot
<Laney> y u not apt-get update
<Laney> bregma: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757261 <- are you going to/can you fix up your patch?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 757261 in g-ir-scanner "g-ir-scanner fails incorrectly on systems linking with --as-needed by default" [Normal,Assigned]
 * Laney is uploading g-i to Debian in a minute and can't sync it because of that
<seb128> back
<Trevinho> seb128: right now it's not blocking unity... Compiz, but there's nothing important happening there that can't wait
<seb128> Trevinho, dropping the gconf backend! :-)
<Laney> good drive Trevinho?
<Laney> (no, there is no such thing)
<Laney> (hahahaha)
<bzoltan_> bregma: thank you
<willcooke> hikiko, Trevinho - should we force Compiz to manage Chromium windows?  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/3tjd3s/screen_tearing_fix_for_netflix_and_ubuntu/
<willcooke> qengho is having computer problems, otherwise he'd likely chip in too
<willcooke> oh, its lunch time, bbiab
<hikiko> willcooke, since we already have the option for firefox, why not have it for chromium as well?
<willcooke> might be worth trying, I'll ask qengho what he thinks
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah nice drive
<willcooke> seb128, Trevinho - fyi - we're going to try this:  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/3tjd3s/screen_tearing_fix_for_netflix_and_ubuntu/
<seb128> willcooke, wfm
<qengho> woot
<willcooke> qengho, fixed?]
<willcooke> lolz.  guess not
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, have you seen https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/chromium-dev/FoE6sL-p6oU/mVlwyh02AgAJ ?
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, I've read about it elsewhere.
 * willcooke reads the thread
<chrisccoulson> ah
<willcooke> That's just Chrome though right?  We're still building Chromium ourselves
<willcooke> or does that not matter?
 * willcooke carries on reading the thread and notices exactly this ^
<willcooke> Right, so if you downloaded Chrome on your 32bit 12.04 box then you dont get updates from March
<willcooke> Expect we should probably make some official announcement as well
<willcooke> maybe we can convince them to wait until April so that folk have a chance to upgrade straight to 16.04
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, well we've not managed to successfully build chromium on 12.04 for a while now. But they're dropping 32-bit Chrome builds entirely IIUC
<chrisccoulson> and maintaining the ability to build chromium on 32-bit. But I do wonder how long that will carry on working
<willcooke> yeah, it's likely to get more and more broken
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  1 15:30:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic:
<willcooke> December???
<willcooke> I know I say this a lot, but where does the time go????
 * willcooke must be old
<seb128> yeah, almost holidays!
<willcooke> zo/
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong, happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, larsu, qengho (might be out), seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<qengho> 'sup.
<desrt> o hai!
<willcooke> qengho, fixed?
<hikiko> hello:)
 * larsu sings the meeting song
<qengho> willcooke: yep!
<andyrock> hey
 * desrt forgot her good-mornings
<willcooke> qengho, \o/
<dgadomski> o/
<larsu> desrt: never too late
<Sweet5hark> \o/
<FJKong> .... ..
<larsu> (morning)
<willcooke> hey desrt - how is the trip?
<desrt> great!
<willcooke> yay
<desrt> i'm freezing to death, but otherwise it's good
<didrocks> hey
<desrt> also: good morning :)
<qengho> 23Â°C in Florida today. The only time the weather is nice is December.
<willcooke> bah
<willcooke> no fair
<desrt> this is why 'snowbirds' are a thing
<willcooke> right, let's get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> i'm still working on the drawing/presenting issues with compiz
<andyrock> right now I'm trying to avoid that compiz presents a nux texture if there is no need to do so
<andyrock> basically nux is not drawing the texture every frame
<andyrock> but compiz is presenting every time even if there is no need
<andyrock> I'm fighting against nux to try to come out with something
<andyrock> but it's a bit messy :)
<willcooke> :D
<andyrock> I also pushed a branch to fix the redrawing issue with the overlay
<andyrock> but things are not easy considering the messy interactions between compiz and nux
<andyrock> but at least I started to understand how things work
<andyrock> eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock  - should be a nice speed up if you can get it to work
<willcooke> good luck!
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: attente
<andyrock> yeah presenting is faster than drawing
<andyrock> but it takes time
<andyrock> and if we don't need to do that it's better to fix it
<attente> minor packaging changes to maliit-inputcontext-gtk
<attente> proposed moving QT_IM_MODULE and GTK_IM_MODULE out of /etc/environment on the touch image to u8 upstart job
<attente> fix weird FTBFS for u-c-c, probably broken because building without optimization
<attente> still working on hack for single-surface gtk-mir apps, but less certain now if this is the right approach to take...
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente, great work on Maliit
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hihi
<desrt> spent a bit of time last week fixing up more inline-manging fallout (which was somewhat expected) on windows, etc.
<desrt> also fixed yet another file monitoring bug (again, windows)
<desrt> spending this week doing a lot of dconf work supporting the containerisation efforts that are ongoing here at chez collabora
<desrt> added API support for listing locks and added a new dconf(1) command 'dconf list-locks' (which could be helpful for admins)
<desrt> also added API support for querying default values and added 'dconf read -d ...' to allow that from the commandline too
<desrt> also did some improved support for path resets in the dconfchangeset API, which is actually an old patch that i did ages ago but never applied
<desrt> today i'm looking at improving annotations for floating references in gtk-doc (which is semantically meaningless for gobject-introspection because it never uses floating refs)... expect soon to see (transfer consume) and (transfer take)
<desrt> will also write g_object_take_ref() to go along with that
<desrt> finally, i reached level 13 in ingress while sitting in the mount royal metro station, in time to get my gold vanguard badge
<desrt> fin.
<willcooke> lol
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> enjoy the week
<desrt> thanks :D
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey, the desktop is still near perfect as not many issues are reported to me recently, nonetheless:
<dgadomski> * bug #1510824 - prepared a modified pam build (ppa:dgadomski/lp1510824) that allows to reproduce the bug, verified the fix for Vivid and Wily
<ubot5> bug 1510824 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu Wily) "PolkitAgentSession incorrectly handles multiline output (as observed with pam_vas)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510824
<dgadomski> * investigating a problem with logging into Unity on ppc64le, prepared a ppc64 build of sosreport with lightdm plugin enabled (ppa:dgadomski/sosreport) to collect more logs. This arch will be included in the future sosreport versions available in ppa:canonical-support/support-tools (thanks to caribou).
<dgadomski> EOF
<willcooke> awesome, thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - Released 15.11.2 (third release this month) with CLion twine and game editor support. Blogged/g+ about it.
<didrocks> - Add a deprecation warning on udtc command.
<didrocks> - Bugs triaging and feedback from the community.
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> - worked on default language selection. Prepared a branch refactoring and rationalizing language support. Try to detail a policy on a bug report and posted on ubuntu-devel. Waiting for any feedbacks/pushbacks. If this is acked, some more ubiquity work and testing will be needed once the seed changed.
<didrocks> - wrote a small utility to easily estimate additional size taken by a seed file containing variables (https://github.com/didrocks/ubuntu-seed-size)
<didrocks> - work on some hangout plugin prototype for UOS (more on that later). Need to showcast that to the community team now.
<didrocks> - some unity dash-related work.
<didrocks> - reviewed duplicity/dÃ©jÃ -dup and reluctantly acked it.
<didrocks> - patch pilot and archive admin duties.
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks, and thanks for your help in the dash related work
<didrocks> yw! :)
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<FJKong> sougou IM:
<FJKong> * page up/down postion problem
<FJKong> * hot key binding for prev/next page function
<FJKong> other:
<FJKong> * pre-reasearch about wechat client
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. ibus merge, will prepare SRU shortly
<willcooke> 2. sogoupinyin bug triaging and analysis
<willcooke> 3. zfs-linux preparing and testing (mirror/raidz configurations,
<willcooke> running mysql w^/o snapshot/sharing options) on Ubuntu, fixing
<willcooke> possible issues, will upload in a day or two
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hello, still shadows, I found a much more efficient way to calculate them and I am changing the code, I hope to finish them by tomorrow... :) eof
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Work on charm for appstream-dep11 - http://162.213.34.169/ is now deployed via juju, next to get a prodstack staging environment, some more work to be done before it can go into production (download debs on demand instead of needing a full mirror)
<Laney> â¢ A few glib uploads to fix regressions, trying to smooth it in now (autopkgtest problems as usual)
<Laney> â¢ New font release, wrangle fontconfig, sorry for the weirdly displaying numbers (bug #1521262), hopefully design will get that fixed
<ubot5> bug 1521262 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "Clock size in panel is smaller when showing only the time than when also showing date" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521262
<Laney> â¢ admin> Work on some personal development thing
<Laney> â¨
<larsu> â¥
<willcooke> thanks Laney
 * Laney spots a pitti
<desrt> omg.  emoji in irc?  what is this madness?
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> more busywork this week!
<larsu> 2nd takes of some patches (the black flicker one and talked to benjamin about the screenshot one being wrong)
<larsu> some code reviews
<larsu> some random bugs that were thrown at me
<larsu> I think that's it :/
<larsu> </larsu>
<seb128> larsu, how is the nautilus menubar work going?
<seb128> I'm done with the update I thinl
<seb128> pondering waiting on that or not
<larsu> seb128: I've got a plan now. desrt won't like it
 * larsu is exporting another action group on the window, manually
<larsu> seb128: should be done in the next day
<seb128> I think I'm going to upload without just to get some feedback on how the pure upstream (headerbar and no menubar) feels like
<larsu> sure
<seb128> so take your time on that
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<larsu> :)
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic qengho
<qengho> * snappy security configuration with SUID binaries
<qengho> * more chromium ozone/mir
<qengho> * chromium release delayed to fix window matching upstream change. Out real soon. NOT KIDDING FOR REAL THIS TIME.
<qengho> * Precise updates again? Maybe update compiler to postPrecise C++11?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> qengho, let's chat Precise and Chrome dropping 32bit in our 1:1 this week
<willcooke> thanks qengho, glad the laptop is alive again
<willcooke> hrm... lagging I think
<qengho> Yeah. Upstream droppedIA32
<qengho> ARM is fine, I think.
<willcooke> I wonder if we as Ubuntu should make a statement about it
<willcooke> anyways, we can chat later once I've got the facts straight in my head
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<qengho> And it's only their builds. Expect some bit-rot, but should work for us for a while.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> â¢ worked on some gedit theming issues
<seb128> â¢ reported some xenial-to-fix-bugs (gtk+ fileselector clicks handling, evolution calendar doubled notifcations, ...)
<seb128> â¢ indicator-keyboard built with current libgee (+ missing schemas depends)
<seb128> â¢ fixed evolution calendar reminder notifications to not use actions when the server doesn't support those
<seb128> â¢ reported notify-osd issue, tested/landed fix from Lars (thanks!), did another land to fix a test issue
<seb128> â¢ updated compiz & unity apport hooks, fixed a small bug in the apport gsettings hook on the way
<seb128> â¢ fixed d-feet translation issues
<seb128> â¢ keep working on the nautilus 3.18, update ready with headerbar and no menubar but it might be good to upload like that to get some feedback on how the upstream UI feels like?
<seb128> â¢ did some triaging on phone bugs
<seb128> â¢ daily review of incomings launchpad bugs&error with some triaging/small debugging
<seb128> â¢ worked a bit of some of the ongoing xenial-proposed transitions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> amazing
<seb128> next: get geonames in xenial, review calendars solutions, MIR for gnome-logs
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - candidacy for reelection to the TDF board
<Sweet5hark> - LibreOffice 5.1.0 alpha1 and beta1 uploaded to prereleases ppa for xenial
<Sweet5hark> - usual calls: ESC, some advisory board foo, some boring admin stuff
<Sweet5hark> - upstream refactoring in writer UNO core
<Sweet5hark> - upstream codereview and mentoring
<Sweet5hark> - read snappy/snapcraft docs
<Sweet5hark> - 2. oitg aftermath and followups
<Sweet5hark> - converted some of my old cronjons to systemd user service units/timer. pretty awesome those.
<Sweet5hark> - noticed the gmenumodel stuff I ported to gtk3 for 5.1 broke again, needs fixing
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> good luck with the board election
<willcooke> and hope you have fun at the conf
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Continued to optimize Orca gsettings backend code, intend to have it ready for merging upstream in a day or so.
<willcooke> * Much time spent keeping pace with orca upstrea to make sure all functionality and settings are supported.
<willcooke> * Continued design of liba11y-profile-manager API and implementation, likely won't start before I go on my break, but that will be my focus for January since Orca should have gsettings support by then.
<willcooke> * Spent a little time looking over Speech DIspatcher bugs... I've neglected this work a bit in the past months.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: tkamppeter
 * desrt blinks
 * larsu coughs
 * desrt drops a pin for effect
 * willcooke dodges the tumbleweed
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Laney> - printed some stuff
<larsu> lol
<Laney> - drank some coffee
<larsu> - driving
<tkamppeter> willcooke, hi, sorry, I will do my part at the end.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> go now while we wait for Trevinho
 * ogra_ sees didrocks on ubuntu devel and senses that this is the year of the linux desktop ! (in french)
<didrocks> \o/
<willcooke> meh
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - GNOME Software Ubuntu support work
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: willcooke
<seb128> we had a few smooth meetings and we are back at waiting on people to type or to be around :-/
<willcooke> Theme wrangling, GNOME software wrangling, U7 Dash wrangling,
<willcooke> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: Any other business
<willcooke> Reminder that the U7 sprint 1 ends tomorrow
<willcooke> we'll have a hangout so bring your demos if you can
<willcooke> any more AOB>
<willcooke> ?
<desrt> yes
<willcooke> desrt perhaps ;)
<desrt> i wonder if we could get more into coworking
<desrt> being in an office again is really nice :)
<desrt> i could happily do this a couple times a week, for example
<willcooke> heh
 * didrocks will cowork with pitti next Monday and Tuesday \o/
<willcooke> so you'd be looking for some sponsorship to help make this happen?
<willcooke> I mean, you can go work where you like, right
<desrt> might even be nice to get mini-offices set up in some places
<tkamppeter> willcooke, I am ready now.
<desrt> even if they are really just coworking memberships
<willcooke> desrt, got ya.  So a membership to a space near you for example
<desrt> nod
<willcooke> oki, I will ask.  I'm in the office in two weeks so I can ask the right people face to face
<desrt> just for the get-out-of-the-house factor
<willcooke> yah, I'm feeling it today
<willcooke> I think its a winter thing for me
<desrt> maybe
<larsu> didrocks: cool! In Augsburg?
<willcooke> oki leave it with me
<desrt> thx.
<willcooke> any more business before we loop back to tkamppeter?
<didrocks> larsu: no, in the best town of France (news from today even!)
<didrocks> nothing for me :)
<larsu> didrocks: Marseilles?
 * seb128 just went to work in a coffee for the afternoon
<willcooke> going in 30 seconds....
<willcooke> *in* a coffee?
<willcooke> ;p
 * larsu hopes it was cold coffee
<desrt> hot.
<Laney> earl grey
<Laney> tea
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-drivers. cups: Fixes in the packaging for use on the phone, to have everything needed when a level-2 printing stack is installed on the phone.
<tkamppeter> - Installed the newest devel version on the phone on which the print filters actually work.
<tkamppeter> - cups-browsed: Working on filtering options for environments with thousands of shared printers, to prevent overloading of print dialogs.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<desrt> -1 yoda
<willcooke> great stuff on the phone tkamppeter
<willcooke> let's see if Trevinho is back...
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-12-01 | Current topic: Trevinho
<seb128> willcooke, :-P
<seb128> "at a coffee place"
<seb128> anyway, +1 for working with others sometimes being good
 * seb128 points that desrt has attente in the same city so it's easy for you ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> alrighty, Trevinho you can update us later
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  1 16:11:40 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-12-01-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thank you everyone
<seb128> thanks!
<didrocks> thx!
<desrt> thanks
<attente> is desrt in toronto?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, 5.1.0~beta1 \o/
<desrt> not today :)
<seb128> attente, desrt realized that the french speaking part of Canada is better and went there
<attente> qengho: hey, have you noticed any issues with chromium connecting to google services (google/youtube/etc.)?
<qengho> attente: Yes!
<desrt> this got political pretty quickly
<attente> seb128: the part with the best crepes in the world?
<qengho> attente: it appears to be a libnss3 bug. Revert to previous version for now.
<seb128> attente, I don't know what you are talking about :p
<attente> qengho: sweet, thanks!
<attente> seb128: you're in denial :P
<Laney> pitti: did autopkgtest lose some queued requests?
<pitti> Laney: could be, sorry; I screwed up my test run as ~pitti and submitted to the official queues, so I purged the
<pitti> m
<pitti> Laney: I'll remove pending.txt on britney to recover
<Laney> it was at some 400 or so
<Laney> thanks
<pitti> Laney: ah yes, that were the bogus ones I flushed
<Laney> nod
<pitti> Laney: I did some 7 hours of britney refactoring/simplification/robustification today which made the code easier to understand, have ~ 100 fewer lines, and fixes a few corner cases
<Laney> !
<didrocks> pitti: it's not friday to push it to production though!
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I know -- so I still have to wait 3 days to roll this out
<pitti> didrocks: and then be in a TGV without net :)
<didrocks> heh :)
<pitti> nah, my second test run is grinding away, I think I'll roll this out tomorrow morning or later tonight
<Laney> pitti: do you have any idea about https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/armhf/u/unity-scope-click/20151201_160141@/log.gz ?
<seb128> they still didn't put internet in the line going to Lyon?
<Laney> I suppose it's because lxc
<seb128> the TGV from Metz to Paris has internet ;-)
<Laney> ("Setting up bluez")
<pitti> Setting up bluez (5.36-0ubuntu1) ...
<pitti> Job for bluetooth.service failed because the control process exited with error code. See "systemctl status bluetooth.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
<pitti> seb128: je ne sais pas, didrocks dit que ceux n'ont pas d'internet
<pitti> Laney: yeah, looks like "cause LXC"
<seb128> pitti, oui, c'Ã©tait comme Ã§a la derniÃ¨re quoi que je suis allÃ© Ã  Lyon aussi
 * didrocks reminds that Paris-Lyon is the most busy line in France (almost saturated even) and should be the first one to have production Internet in TGV
<pitti> Laney: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/u/unity-scope-click/xenial/armhf/ looks ALWAYSFAIL-ish, I wonder how it worked twice..
<didrocks> IIRC, the Metz to Paris is a test
<Laney> pitti: I don't get that either
<didrocks> seb128: waow, 5â¬/hour?
<didrocks> (or it's only the Thalys's price and not TGV? the sentence isn't clear in this article)
<pitti> nah, I have tons of offline stuff to work on; I so won't spoil my quiet time with bad internet to get interruptions again :)
<pitti> Laney: oh indeed - I thought these 400 were bad ones from my test run, but apparently they were quite real
<seb128> didrocks, I don't remember how much I paid, I think it was a bit expensive for an hour but like 10â¬ for the trip which I found alright for some hours
<pitti> Laney: seems we indeed just landed a ton of stuff in xenial..
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh...... Sorry for some reason I thought the meeting was at 17:30, and I was out before :-(
<pitti> great, with lcy01 being dead again that'll take ages
<Trevinho> willcooke: can I paste it now?
<willcooke> Trevinho, no worries
<willcooke> sure if you like
<Laney> pitti: I was going to try a test run-from-checkout in lcy01
<Trevinho> Â· Review of the Kylin lockscreen
<Trevinho> Â· Review of various other branches
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed matching of NoDisplay desktop files used for startup-notifications (i.e nautilus devices/trash)
<Trevinho> Â· Improved nautilus patch to export opened locations for each window
<Trevinho> Â· Nautilus patch (forwarded) for doing file operations with action timestamp (so to make present the potentia
<Trevinho> Â· Looking into xorg-gtest pkg-config changes to fix a FTB in compiz
<seb128> pitti, Laney, it's better than a ton, it's the new qt stack with kde bits
<pitti> Laney: ah, please do, let me know
<seb128> going to keep the machines busy
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<Laney> pitti: Was constructing the command (didn't find it in history), then someone connected to my screen
<Laney> :P
<pitti> Laney: lost history> I redeployed the worker last week, sorry
<Laney> If you have it saved then probably faster for you to do it
<pitti> Laney: oh -- that was you? sorry
<Laney> or make an alias
<pitti> Laney: you can copy&paste most of it from the top of the .log, just replace it with run-from-checkout and drop the -o
 * pitti runs for small errand, brb
<Laney> I'll force-badtest unity-scope-click
<Laney> but I wonder if we can do something about bad-on-lxc packages that turn up in deps
<pitti> Laney: per-arch force-badtest would be nice indeed
<pitti> Laney: but it might be easier to just disable bluez.service in the armhf testbeds
<Laney> that's probably reasonable
<pitti> ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/system/bluez.service
<Laney> what's the best way to do that?
<pitti> (or so)
<Laney> just statically?
<pitti> Laney: we could add it to the ever-growing monstrosity of the setup_command in worker.conf
<Laney> haha
<pitti> Laney: did you just see it? you may vomit now :)
<Laney> can this go into a proper shell script instead?
<Laney> no I've seen it before
<Laney> adt-run [16:33:40]: ERROR: testbed failure: cannot send to testbed: ['BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe\n']
<Laney> I guess this means lcy01 is still bad
<Laney> didn't get much output though, wonder what I missed
<pitti> Laney: oh right, that's on arm? I thought I collided with your byobu on the cloud controller (which is !arm)
<pitti> Laney: where are you trying this?
<Laney> no that was the lcy01 cloud
<Laney> s/cloud/test/
<pitti> ah right, I'm getting confused
<Laney> sorry, doing/discussing two things at once
<pitti> Laney: "nova boot" should still be in the history somewhere, that's a lower-level test; nova boot it and then see that you can ssh in
<pitti> Laney: but yeah, iz gtk^Wcloud bug
<Laney> pitti: ah, even this will fail?
<Laney> ubuntu@laney-test:~$ echo "hi pitti"
<Laney> hi pitti
<pitti> Laney: well -- sometimes :)
 * Laney reruns with -d
<pitti> ok, so there goes my new britney deployment, I don't want to do it in the middle of this "1500 tests queued" madness
<Laney> oh, funny
<Laney> the missing en_GB.UTF-8 was breaking it
<Laney> LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 is much better
<pitti> Laney: what? bluez?
<Laney> run-from-checkout
<Laney> yep, this passed
<Laney> I'll try re-enabling it
 * pitti is watching Laney in action
<pitti> ... | sort
<Laney> haha
<pitti> Laney: ok, so let's start small with just one?
<pitti> Laney: btw, if you want to restart them all, you can now just restart autopkgtest-worker-launch, it won't tear down the running ones any more
<Laney> ah, nice
<pitti> Laney: that's what the 4-times-a-day caretaker crnojob does
<pitti> i. e. wipe broken instances, restart all workers
<pitti> Laney: is lcy01.rs a typo, or deliberately disabled?
<pitti> Laney: so with that cloud-worker-maintenacne will restart all 8 workers the next time it runs
<Laney> in 65 minutes, should be enough time to see if it's stable
<pitti> Laney: and they will die down to the number that are sustainable, so it should work reasonably well
<pitti> Laney: I need to leave to French class in about 15 mins; are you around for a bit to watch it?
<pitti> I'll be back around 20:00 UTC
<pitti> Laney: well, it doesn't really need that much watching any more, but would be nice to see if it got fixed
<Laney> pitti: no worries, happy frenching
<didrocks> frenching is always happy for the record Laney :)
<seb128> pitti, bon franÃ§ais !
 * Sweet5hark is back after outage from local provider ...
<seb128> ok, going for some errands and diners, have a nice evening everyone!
<qengho> bon nuit
<willcooke> see ya seb128
<didrocks> see you seb128!
 * didrocks goes off too
<willcooke> see ya didrocks
<Sweet5hark> gah
 * Sweet5hark needs to reconnect via his mobile phone as the landline broken (apparently someone stumbles through their datacenter and randomly unplugs cables)
<Sweet5hark> (from reading meetingologys log): desrt: good ideas around coworking! In fact, I dumped similar thoughts on willcooke when we were in London ;) (though: similar != same)
<willcooke> ah yes
 * willcooke checks his mail
<willcooke> right, they said they can't do it, but I will ask again
<willcooke> the more people that ask the better the chances I think
<desrt> no sprints and no office makes desrt something something
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: we desktopper can chant a canon next time we are in london, if that helps ;)
<willcooke> cant hurt
<Sweet5hark> desrt: here's a ball to throw against the wall and a typewriter
<desrt> reffing the simpsons rather than the shining, but sure :)
<willcooke> desrt, go crazy?
<desrt> don't mind if i do?!!@#
<willcooke> \o/
<Sweet5hark> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6hY_50Dh0
<qengho> For the last decade or so, I've been meeting with others in my city who do Kind of the Same Thing. Put on trousers and pretend not to be a hermit for 8 hours, once a week.
<qengho> It's better than ordering from Amazon so you get someone to talk to when Mr Fedex comes to your door.
<qengho> They get upset when you hug 'em.
<qengho> "Sign here." "No. Hug first."
<mdeslaur> rofl
<Sweet5hark> hrhr
<willcooke> :)
<Sweet5hark> qengho: same here, with "home hackings" a la http://sweetshark.livejournal.com/9361.html in my living room.
 * Sweet5hark notices that its likely his turn to invite again ...
<Sweet5hark> qengho: still -- doing that with canonicalites sometime would be good too.
<qengho> Yep. Every c'ite within 70km was with us every Tuesday. At one time, four of us. In a cafe, with other strangers.
<willcooke> g'night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-12-02
<hikiko> hi
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> bonjour pitti !
<didrocks> ton cours hier Ã©tait bien ?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> salut pitti
<pitti> bonjour ! oui, on a parlÃ© beaucoup :)
<pitti> salut seb128
 * pitti bataille les nuages Ã  nouveau -- mon sport de matin
<didrocks> pitti: souffle un bon coup !
<didrocks> les nuages partiront :)
<pitti> didrocks: non, non ! ils cassent tous le temps, je les veux marcher ! :-)
<didrocks> pitti: pourtant, c'est la bonne saison pour les nuages !
<pitti> ("I want them to work" -- est-ce que c'Ã©tait comprÃ©hensible ?)
<pitti> didrocks: en effet :)
<didrocks> pitti: oui oui, je dirais juste "je veux qu'ils marchent"
<pitti> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml -- 430 tests on the wall, 430 tests; ressussitate one cloud again, 429 tests on the wall
<pitti> didrocks: ah, merci
<pitti> au moins les autres deux marchent -- nous avons eu ~ 1.100 tests hier
<didrocks> tout de mÃªmeâ¦ :)
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<larsu> bonjour didrocks!
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts?
<larsu> seb128: guten morgen! Gut danke! Und dir?
<seb128> auch gut, danke!
<seb128> pitti, does "test in progress" actual means test is active or does it mean "in the queue"?
<seb128> on update_excuses I mean
<pitti> seb128: either; see http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml for details
<larsu> guten morgen pitti :)
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> gut gut, danke! Und dir>
<larsu> ?
<pitti> seb128: unlike the last big KDE/Qt landing, people can now actually look at the damn thing :)
<pitti> larsu: auch gut, danke!
<seb128> pitti, k, that's explained why those tests are "in progress" since yesterday 16h
<pitti> seb128: yeah, Qt landing + lcy01 being down :(
<pitti> seb128: I've spent an hour with IS again, it's back with some capacity, but it'll still take some time to catch up
<seb128> it's over me why they can't provide a stable infra :-/
<pitti> If you look at running.html right now: the backlog is gone, I flushed the queues as I'm rolling out a new britney; that will re-request the missing ones
<pitti> meh @ http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml#pkg-appstream -- doesn't look that stable yet :?
<pitti> seb128: btw, it's on my list to make the excuses.html links more useful; pass/regression should directly link to the corresponding log, and "in progress" will link to running.shtml; clicking on teh arch will show the results list as it does now
<pitti> I did the ground work for this yesterday, now it's just a matter of wiring this up in html
<seb128> pitti, great
<darkxst> hey pitti, seb128 larsu
<darkxst> ,didrocks
<didrocks> evening darkxst
<larsu> good evening darkxst
 * darkxst wonders why my gdm -> gdm3 work fine when dist-upgrading, but not always when doing a release update
<darkxst> ^debconf scripts
<seb128> hey darkxst
<darkxst> is there some difference in the ordering of the way maintscripts/configs run?
<didrocks> $ diff -Nrup ubuntu/plymouth-0.9.0/debian/ plymouth-0.9.2/debian/ | lsdiff | wc -l
<didrocks> 105
<didrocks> fun fun fun !
<darkxst> i.e xenial gdm -> xenial gdm3 works
<darkxst> wily gdm -> xenial gdm3 not so much
<Trevinho> Morning
<seb128> Trevinho, hey!
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<didrocks> darkxst: you have more packages in one case, so the config (package configuration order) might change
<seb128> darkxst, ordering is not fixed and depends of the upgrade set, so things might be in different order between packages
<darkxst> can the old gdm.config run in that case?
<darkxst> I suppose debconf caches that possibly?
<darkxst> my gdm3.config forces the gdm -> gdm3 change without a question
<darkxst> and I purge the old gdm debconf profile, in gdm.postinst, but that didnt even seem to run either
<Laney> yo
<seb128> hey Laney
<darkxst> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, how are you?
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<seb128> Laney, are you working on another room recently? I'm curious what change that you say hey one or two minutes earlier now ;-)
<Laney> HAHA
<seb128> :-p
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> no change that I know of
<Laney> maybe my laptop got faster to resume
<Laney> !
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> and hi darkxst larsu and pitti
<Laney> what a great group of people
<larsu> seb128 is very observant ....
<seb128> or maybe the clock you use to know when it's work time is slightly shifted?!
<didrocks> good morning Laney!
<Laney> it's the BBC pips
<Laney> hey didrocks!!!!
<larsu> THE BBC IS NEVER WRONG ABOUT ITS PIPS
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQi58lKrRuU
<hikiko> oh :) hi Laney seb128 larsu darkxst didrocks pitti willcooke :)
<Laney> I hear that and I'm like oh shit got to get to seb128
<larsu> the queen personally pushes the button for the pips
<hikiko> and Trevinho :)
<didrocks> hey hikiko!
<larsu> are you aying the queen is wrong?
<larsu> are you?
<larsu> morning hikiko :)
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> aaaactually
<larsu> hi willcooke
<Laney> if I listen online they will lag behind reality
<Laney> maybe THAT explains it
<larsu> Laney: you can turn in your British citizenship at the door
<Laney> hello hikiko and willcooke
<Laney> I bet even DAB lags too
<willcooke> the lag on dab is very annoying
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> haha
<Laney> never measured it
<willcooke> because all the decoding and error correction is done on the radio, it means that even two radios in the same room have lag
<Laney> what is it?
<Laney> if I put my two DAB radios on then they sound synchronised
<Laney> so it's <30ms
<Laney> between the two anyway
<willcooke> so when you have the radio on in the kitchen and another in, say, the lounge, and you can hear both.... arrrgh
<larsu> same model?
<willcooke> *dont have the same lag
<seb128> hey hikiko willcooke
<Laney> no
<Laney> well the other one could be a rebadged Pure one I guess
<Laney> pitti: do you know about these "Unable to find a source package" failures?
<didrocks> waow, plymouth ubuntu and debian initramf integration is completely different
<didrocks> even more lesigh :p
 * darkxst don't have to worry about lag in DAB, don't get it here!
<pitti> Laney: not yet, but I suspect the last cloud-init SRU on precise; I guess it doesn't have precise-updates/restricted apt sources any more
<pitti> Laney: it's on my list
<pitti> Laney: btw, I pushed and rolled out the new britney this morning; the code should now be a lot less convoluted and easier to understand
<Laney> nice
<pitti> I did some more cleanup last night
<Laney> are there any functional changes?
<pitti> Laney: not that much, just that it now doesn't forget about some architectures some times (i. e. bug fixes)
<pitti> Laney: and the results.cache data format changed
<pitti> Laney: we now have the run IDs of the individual tests there, so we can expose them in excuses.html to directly point to the log
<Laney> cool!
<pitti> Laney: and for the running ones I plan to point to /running.shtml instead
<Laney> ah, http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/u/unity-scope-click/xenial/armhf/
<pitti> Laney: so I thought "armhf: pass" -> the "armhf" points to teh autopkgtest per-page results page as it does not, and the "Pass" directly to the log
<pitti> Laney: oh nice, you added the bluez workaround?
<Laney> yeah
<pitti> ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/system/bluetooth.service
<pitti> yay
<Laney> I just cowboyed it to worker.conf on the cyclops-*
<Laney> couldn't find if that came from anywhere else
<pitti> Laney: it's not; I keep the master copy on my laptop and just parallel-scp it
<Laney> hehe
<pitti> Laney: if we keep this much longer, I should probably add it to git and do some credentials templating like on the cloud stuff
<pitti> but I'm currently wrestling with lxd (and firewall/proxy again), so that at some point we can cloudify this
<darkxst> seb128, didrocks, pitti, Laney, so back to previous question, is it possible for the the old gdm.config to get run when doing a release upgrade before the gdm3.config runs?
<Laney> I didn't read your discussion
<pitti> news to me too
<Laney> what's a gdm.config?
<pitti> but no, I don't think you can enforce it
<darkxst> the debconf stuff
<pitti> the maintscript
<darkxst> we renamed source gdm -> gdm3
<pitti> but why would you need to run debconf for the old packae? it's going to be removed anyway?
<pitti> you can do upgrade stuff in gdm3.preinst
<darkxst> gdm binary is now a transitional package
<darkxst> pitti, and it does not have .config, but still getting the question on release upgrades
<darkxst> even when gdm3 config script forces the settings, without a question
<pitti> darkxst: ah, so gdm's postrm calls debconf again?
<pitti> (which would make sense in general for a DM)
<seb128> ok good desktop people, be happy new nautilus is coming your way ;-)
<darkxst> pitti, well not explicitly so far as I can see, but something fishy like that is going on here,
<darkxst> and it does seem feasible that a postrm would trigger debconf, but then its gdm real binary to gdm transitional binary, I wouldnt have expected that to trigger postrm even
<pitti> if gdm3 replaces gdm, then gdm.postrm will run, as it gets removed
<pitti> and then gdm3.postinst
<pitti> and the preinst/prerm in between of course
<darkxst> pitti, I did it as a transitional package, so gdm depend on gdm3
<seb128> larsu, I would like to get geonames in Ubuntu, do you want to roll a 0.1 tarball or something we can package? or make it land through CI train (unsure if that works with git projects yet)? or...?
<Laney> is anything ported to use it yet?
<seb128> larsu had some work in progress for unity-control-center iirc
<seb128> why?
<seb128> there is also a test demo program in the source
<Laney> just wondering if you wanting to upload it is motivated by something else wanting to use it
<seb128> we said we would switch u-c-c and ubiquity to it this cycle
<seb128> so trying to get things going
<seb128> it's on my todo of things to land and I would like to empty the new packages/default changes part before holidays
<seb128> also I tried gnome-logs again today
<seb128> I can't really say why but it doesn't feel nice to use to me
<seb128> I think it's a combinaison of the window being small by default, the UI elements bigs and only displaying the titles and not the full log
<seb128> it feels like I don't have a good view of the log content
<seb128> did other try it? how do they feel about it?
<Laney> I didn't try it, sorry
<Laney> did just try thunderbird calendar though
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/oldlog.png
<seb128> vs
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/newlog.png
<Laney> the EDS extension makes it fail to start :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> that's also on my list of things to try/look at ;-)Ã 
<Laney> cannot register existing type 'ESource'
<Laney> ...
<Laney> gnome-calendar ftw
<seb128> yeah, that's my feeling as well
<Laney> I actually used it a few times in reality
<Laney> which is probably a good sign
<seb128> I'm unsure how well maintained it is
<Laney> no need to start evo to do calendar stuff
<seb128> but it's mostly working
<Laney> or go to the website
<seb128> I opened an upstream bug a week ago about dropping the OnlyShowIn=GNOME but no reply yet :-/
<seb128> it's currently not listed in unity which is a bit of a fail
<seb128> easy to fix though ;-)
<Laney> that is weird
<Laney> I wonder why they did that
<seb128> yeah, not sure, they probably consider it a GNOME desktop component
<Trevinho> I've sent a mail to pkg-config maintainer... Let's see what's the output
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<seb128> you might want to open a bug report as well?
<Trevinho> seb128: I was considering that as well,  I wanted to see if I can get an informal reply before...
<Trevinho> but I could
<seb128> Trevinho, that wouldn't hurt I guess
<seb128> but you can as well wait a few days to see if you get a reply
<willcooke> Trevinho, seb128 - running a couple of mins late - internet problems
<Trevinho> willcooke: ok
<seb128> k
<willcooke> Trevinho, seb128 - omw
<willcooke> seb128, hikiko andyrock - https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/place-holder?authuser=0
<willcooke> sorry for the delay guys
<hikiko> sure willcooke sec
<hikiko> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1521947
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1521947 in Unity "Shaped and multi-rectangular windows don't have shadows" [High,New]
<andyrock> willcooke: sorry i tought it was one hour later :O
<willcooke> andyrock, no worries, we know that you;re still working on it
<didrocks> Trevinho: andyrock: so, now that I updated to xenial, my weechat window is matched to byobu
<didrocks> anything to help debugging this?
<didrocks> actually, any terminal is matching byobu, not just my IRC one
<Trevinho> didrocks: it's byobu issue
<didrocks> do you have a bug reference for this?
<didrocks> (and understood what changed there?)
<didrocks> is it its StartupWMClass=gnome-terminal-server?
<Trevinho> didrocks: yes, sorry otp
<didrocks> (I guess bug #1503418)
<ubot5`> bug 1503418 in bamf (Ubuntu) "[SRU] [REGRESSION] launching byobu from unity uses the terminal icon rather than the application icon" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503418
<didrocks> let me revert this change anyway for now
<Trevinho> didrocks: yes, that's the bug
<didrocks> Trevinho: let me revert the change, add rationale and give the example we have with weechat
<didrocks> thanks to Laney's excellent compatibility wrapper
<Trevinho> didrocks: the problem is that it's harder now to match gtk apps by class
<didrocks> Trevinho: yeah, I guess using the same strategy than the one we discussed in Brussels is fine for now, and he can ships this terminal file
 * didrocks gives it a try
<didrocks> ah, better :)
<larsu> seb128: (sorry was at the gym) what's better for you? I think I'd prefer anything that doesn't involve uploading tarballs ;)
<seb128> larsu, do you intend for those to be used out of Ubuntu?
<larsu> seb128: probably not for now
<seb128> k, let's land through CI than
<seb128> we can always change to roll tarballs later if we want
 * larsu nods
<seb128> larsu, is the current git something good for upload? or did you want to do changes before that?
<larsu> it's good
<larsu> only missing the locale part
 * larsu is out for lunch
<seb128> larsu, enjoy!
<didrocks> enjoy larsu :)
<Mirv> Qt 5.5.1 now dropped the use of GStreamer 0.10 in xenial(-proposed). it seems there are still ~10 other users though.
<seb128> not on the iso at least
<Mirv> not on the iso but archive in general
<Mirv> gcompris has GStreamer 1.0 port done in Debian
<seb128> right, well it's not worth spending efforts on that
<seb128> it's not like you are ever going to clean the archive from old cruft ;-)
<seb128> demoting to universe (if it's not the case yet) could be nice though
<Mirv> maybe some low hanging fruits though
<seb128> there are always low hanging fruits
<seb128> I would rather spending efforts getting gconf out of the iso
<ricotz> or this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libzeitgeist/+bug/1521989
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1521989 in libzeitgeist (Ubuntu) "Please remove libzeitgeist from the archive" [Undecided,New]
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey ricotz
<seb128> I've little interest in removing things from the archive
<seb128> as said it's not like the archive/debian didn't have ton of things that are old and buggy and unmaintained
<seb128> it's not a few more or less that's going to make a difference
<ricotz> seb128, did you read the bug?
<seb128> no
<seb128> just the title
<ricotz> please do then
<seb128> it's a duplicate
<seb128> bug #1197569
<ubot5`> bug 1197569 in Unity Videos Lens "Move from zeitgeist-1.0 to zeitgeist-2.0" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197569
<seb128> and patches are welcome
<seb128> but yeah, switching to the new one would be nice
<ricotz> ah, I see
<ricotz> seb128, looking at nautilus
<xnox> seb128, any reason why we are using old mono, and didn't like move to 4.2.1?
<Laney> ask directhex
<seb128> xnox, no idea, what Laney said
<ricotz> seb128, https://paste.debian.net/plain/340591
<seb128> ricotz, thanks, can you add it to the bug, I'm going to commit it in a bit
<ricotz> seb128, ah, wait
<ricotz> it crashed while testing
<ricotz> (make check isn't running on package-build)
<seb128> k
<ricotz> seb128, next try ;) https://paste.debian.net/plain/340611/
<seb128> ricotz, was the previous code leaking? I see you added unref calls in that one?
<seb128> larsu, did you see my comments about gnome-logs this morning?
<larsu> no?!
<willcooke> Trevinho, any reason we can't disable the upstream bug tracker on Unity right now and make sure new bugs are only opened against unity (Ubuntu)?
<larsu> seb128: did you ping me?
 * larsu scrolls back
<ricotz> seb128, forget about some api changes, and yeah, it was likely leaking before
<seb128> willcooke, I don't think you can disable the tracker unless the open bugs list is empty
<willcooke> oh, didrocks ^ >?
<didrocks> seb128: you can disable it, it will just mask them (but you can still get the other tasks)
<didrocks> I'm unsure how the launchpad API is working though, we can give it a try
<didrocks> it's just a masking anyway, if you reenable, you see them again
<seb128> larsu, no, I probably didn't directly ping you, I raised as a topic on the channel and I though you were around
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I saw it forced you to empty the list first
<seb128> saw->though
<didrocks> seb128: not last time I tried (I guess 3 months ago?)
<seb128> because that's what people usually do
<seb128> but I guess it's to not loose bugs rather then
<didrocks> yeah, but you won't anyway
<didrocks> you reenable it, and surprise, they are back!
<didrocks> (I guess only auto-expiring isn't enabled)
<larsu> seb128: indeed, logs uses the standard text size and log viewer a smaller one
<didrocks> I'm just unsure how the API is working, if lp.projects["unity"] will list them
<larsu> seb128: but it's the same content, no?
<larsu> seb128: just a bit smaller on screen
<seb128> larsu, I don't know, I've the feeling I've no useful content on http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/newlog.png
<larsu> seb128: yeah looking at it and trying to find the differences
<seb128> it feels overloaded
<larsu> I agree it doesn't look at nice
<seb128> I can't really point out why though
<larsu> it's the white background!!!1!
 * larsu can fix that :P
<didrocks> seb128: it's not hidden from the API side FYI
<seb128> larsu, is it?
<seb128> larsu, a bit smaller text or bigger window wouldn't hurt probably
 * larsu was joking
<seb128> lol
<seb128> sorry, mind busy on other things, I didn't catch that :p
<didrocks> seb128: even better, if you know the bug number, you can directly type the url :p
<larsu> seb128: no worries ;)
<seb128> didrocks, let me open all the bugs in firefox so  the awesome bar remembers!
<didrocks> seb128: oh YEAH! :)
<didrocks> let me try the new bug url
<didrocks> seb128: no, they protected the url
<didrocks> seb128: but I'm sure you can opens some through the API :p
 * Laney meows
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> hi, felt quiet today so wanted to make some noise
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> what are you working on?
<seb128> still appstream things?
<larsu> desrt: why do you export the internal GSimpleActionGroup of a GtkApplicationWindow instead of the window itself?
<Laney> seb128: yeah, following some checklist to get it deployed
<Laney> should be able to file that RT today
<Laney> also librsvg update
<seb128> cool
<seb128> Debian also got a new dbus ;-)
<seb128> (hint hint)
<larsu> desrt: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/gtkapplication-dbus.c#n274
 * seb128 should stop looking at red lines on version
<larsu> desrt: mind if I change that? My whole nautilus hack doesn't work because of this
<Laney> yes I know
 * larsu should file a bug
 * Laney unlearns "+gp and learns "+p instead
 * didrocks tries a new command
<didrocks> Laney merge plymouth
<Laney> permission denied
<seb128> didrocks, try with sudo just in case
<didrocks> sudo !!
<Laney> SHIT
<Laney> FINE
<didrocks> \o/
<Laney> $ grab-merge plymouth
<seb128> Laney, larsu, just for info I opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-logs/+bug/1522078
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1522078 in gnome-logs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-logs" [Wishlist,New]
<Laney> thx
<Laney> I will do one for the calendar soon
<larsu> thanks!
<seb128> Laney, oh, great, I had that on my list ... dropping it then ;-) do you plan to reply on the mailing list about your testing as well?
<seb128> I'm going to back up your gnome-calendar +1
<Laney> yeah but maybe tomorrow
<Laney> online-accounts :/
<Laney> we might need to see about stealing mardy for a bit to work on that if possible
<Laney> I tried to add my google account on my xps to get calendars and it didn't really work very smooth
<seb128> Laney, what issues did you get?
<seb128> I don't think those bits changed in the recents cycle and were never pointed out as an issue
<seb128> or did you hit bugs?
<seb128> iirc you get an embedded webview asking for your login/passwd?
<Laney> well I expect my calendars to magically appear in the indicator and gnome-calendar
<Laney> but they aren't there
<Laney> I think it's broken with 2fa accounts maybe?
<seb128> did you restart the evolution-calendar-factory?
<seb128> or whatever that process is called?
<Laney> no why would I do that :P
<seb128> just to see if it's it not picking updates
<seb128> to determine what component has an issue
<seb128> trying to pin down what is buggy
<seb128> if it works after a restart it means it doesn't refresh
<Laney> ok did now, not there
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> is gnome-calendar listing the calendar?
<Laney> no
<seb128> :-(((
<Laney> I think on my desktop I added the ics files directly in evolution a while ago
<Laney> so eds has them and it works
<seb128> on my machine I added the account in u-c-c and it works
<Laney> got 2fa?
<Laney> try with @canonical.com
<didrocks> ok, just added my @gmail.com (which is 2fa), didn't restart anything (g-c or e-c-f) -> nothing appears
<Laney> are you in a position to restart your session? :P
<didrocks> (btw, typing "calendar" in the dash doesn't find the .desktop)
<didrocks> Laney: not that much, I'm tempted :)
<didrocks> let me try to first close g-c and restart
<didrocks> and then kill e-c-f
<Laney> desktop issue is known, it has OnlyShowIn
<didrocks> roh, nice
<didrocks> ok, restarting g-c -> nothing
<seb128> didrocks, OnlyShowIn is what I wrote this morning
<seb128> Laney, yes, it's the canonical 2fa account
<didrocks> seb128: sorry, missed that line probably
<seb128> it was buggy on wily and started working with 3.18 again in xenial
<seb128> automagically on login after the next login
 * didrocks waits on e-c-f which restarted if anything will syncâ¦
<Laney> hoping didrocks can confirm that...
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, is calendar component activated in the google account in settings?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> toggled it even
<didrocks> seb128: yep
<seb128> can you start the e-d-s services by hand and see the output?
<didrocks> Laney: nothing until now appearing here as well
<didrocks> only e-c-f, right?
<Laney> will let didier do this, seems we are in the same state
<Laney> adding the ics url in gnome-calendar makes it go into eds properly though
<Laney> which is quite nice
<Laney> no need to use evolution for this any more
<seb128> good
<seb128> but adding the google account should be enough to get the calendar filed
<Laney> it should, that's why I am complaining
<didrocks> seb128: hum, no output, but I see the subprocesses being created when launching gnome-calendar though
<Laney> now I'm getting notification for every desktop weekly meeting ever
<Laney> AWESOME!
<willcooke> hah!
<didrocks> Laney: see you in 10 days!
<didrocks> hum, and no --verbose
<Laney> G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all ?
<didrocks> Laney: already tried, nothing
<didrocks> only have some debug message when it's autoclosing
<didrocks> on client disconnect
<didrocks> (the weird part is that it's the registering)
<didrocks> so I wonder if the subprocess output are not redirected
<didrocks> and so, it's only when they close that their stdout/stderr are flushed by the main process
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, if you start evolution does it list the calendar?
<didrocks> I would have to install evolution first :p
<Laney> no
<didrocks> Laney: do you have it handy?
<Laney> no calendar or gmail account
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, can you check your .cache/upstart/dbus.log ?
<seb128> do you have (evolution-source-registry:15044): module-ubuntu-online-accounts-WARNING **: ubuntu_online_accounts_got_userinfo_cb: Failed to create ESource collection for AgAccount
<seb128> ?
<seb128> I've that in a guest session
<Laney> no, just a load of activations
<didrocks> no
<Laney> for eds stuff
<didrocks> same than Laney
<didrocks> Activating service name='org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Calendar7'
<didrocks> Successfully activated service 'org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Calendar7'
<didrocks> for instance
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> blackbox, I tried to get more logs, couldn't :/
<seb128> yeah, I tried to look at bugzilla/grep source, not a lot of useful info
<seb128> there is https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/Debugging#Calendar_Backends but that's lying
<seb128> GOOGLE_BACKEND_DEBUG=1 doesn't exist in the source
 * Laney knows nothing about the o-a stack really
<Trevinho> willcooke: about your question before; I don't know about disabling that bug-tracker... Mh, Actually in some way I wouldn't do that, as we used that for targetting bugs, but... As you prefer
<willcooke> Trevinho, what's the impact of targeting the bugs? The triaging we did was done on the ubuntu packages right?  So those are targeted correctly
<Trevinho> seb128: you said you were working on removing the gconf backend, right?
<seb128> Trevinho, no, but I guess I can have a look if you want, I've no idea about compiz though
<seb128> I hope it's as trivial as dropping an optionnal build flag :p
<Laney> you packager
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, any signond error in syslog?
<didrocks> seb128: nope, I looked at that first :/
<seb128> didrocks, what if you
<seb128> $ account-console list
<seb128> $ account-console show <google id>
<seb128> well, I'm unsure that's useful
<seb128> would need mardy but he might off for today already
<didrocks> seb128: installing -tools
<didrocks> seb128: I have all secrets and such listed for the calendar google cred
<didrocks> I guess at that point, let's see with mardy tomorrow?
<seb128>      export CALDAV_DEBUG=all
<seb128>  /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory
<seb128> just try that
<seb128> and then yes, otherwise need help from others
<didrocks> seb128: same, no log :/
<seb128> k, dunno then
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> you didn't have the account created before either?
<seb128> I wonder if that's a bug in the account creation in xenial
<seb128> I bet on new glib :p
<didrocks> seb128: no, I had some that I removed a while ago
<didrocks> but yeah, can be a bug in account creation
<Laney> haha nice try
<Laney> I would not have had to add my canonical calendars by URL if it worked in previous releases
<Laney> I remember trying with one time passwords and stuff before
<seb128> always worked for me
<seb128> next time open a bug please
<seb128> but let's debug this one
<seb128> I wonder if evo changed
<seb128> evolution let you add online calendar and seems to pick configured google account
<seb128> I wonder if they force you to go through that rather than auto add all calendars linked to the account now
<Laney> I did open a bug thanks
<Laney> can't find it though :(
<seb128> there was one but I though it was closed/marked as fixed
<seb128> thanks for reopening
<seb128> on that note, sport time, bbl
<Laney> dude
<Laney> don't act like that please
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, it should be easy...
<Trevinho> (the gconf stuff)
<Trevinho> if you prefer or have troubles let me know, that I can look at it
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, but we always had different revisions upstream than in distro, so keeping the bugs there is like a list of "things hopefully to fix somewhen"...
<willcooke> Trevinho, I see.  I think though, that's not manageable but just us few guys now..  Like, we should be more ruthless with bug triage.  If we think it's worth working on one day, it goes in the backlog (or gets targeted to a release) if not, WONT FIX
<Trevinho> ok. It's just that we can't nominate bugs by default, so having targets is harder
<Trevinho> I should probably get into the proper lp group
<Trevinho> infinity: can I get access to ~ubuntu-release-nominators ?
<willcooke> didrocks, Trevinho - let's pick this up tomorrow then.  Thanks guys
<didrocks> yeah, let's see tomorrow, have a good evening guys!
<willcooke> cheers didrocks
<Trevinho> enjoy!
<didrocks> see you willcooke!
<Laney> bye
<willcooke> night Laney
<willcooke> g'night al;l
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-12-03
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Ã§a va didrocks !
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! le match de basketball hier Ã©tait grand
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! ein bisschen muede. Und Dir?
<seb128> la mÃªme chose
<didrocks> pitti: content que tu te sois amusÃ© au match de basket ;)
<seb128> j'aurais bien dormi un peu plus
<pitti> didrocks: I was quite good yesterday for a change, I scored some 15 times
<pitti> it's all psychology
<didrocks> pitti: waow, nice!
<seb128> pitti is on his way to play in NBA ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes, my role is to sell hot dogs to the audience!
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> pitti: interesting, plymouth's debian version is now shipping their theme renderer in /usr/lib and not /lib. I think we want to follow that
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you are merging plymouth? *hug*
<didrocks> pitti: wellâ¦ nobody did it in years, someone has to do it
<pitti> didrocks: ah, the /usr mount in initramfs happens earlier than that?
<pitti> sounds a bit strange
<didrocks> I think that's not going to be done shortly
<pitti> it's something that should be covered by plymouth (fsck and stuff)
<didrocks> pitti: isn't the renderer copied in initramfs? (I didn't go to that part yet)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, it's certainly a mouthful, but thanks for doing this!  it's indeed overdue
<pitti> didrocks: ah, yes, that can be
<pitti> then shipping it in /usr is of course totally fine
<didrocks> well, I guess we'll see once the merge is done and pushed to a ppa :p
<didrocks> I'll request as much testing as possible, becauseâ¦ well, the packages really diverged
<didrocks> (even the initramfs hooks locations and content changedâ¦)
<pitti> I hope the eventual delta is rather small, the art is to find which is still important
 * pitti sobs at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/status/alerts/ and goes to clean up stuff
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'm looking the plymouth-upstart bridge and will shed a tear before rm :p
<didrocks> pitti: I hope the resulting diff to be small as wel
<didrocks> well*
<pitti> didrocks: we don't use plymouth on the phone, right?
<didrocks> pitti: note that I remember
<pitti> so if people don't get plymouth if they boot with upstart, that's fine
<didrocks> not*
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> plymouth (0.8.1-1) lucid; urgency=low
<didrocks> zomg, debian version with ubuntu release name in changelog
<didrocks> really confusingâ¦
<didrocks> (and multiple of themâ¦)
<dholbach> hey hey
<dholbach> is anyone here on xenial who also has BIG icons on their desktop and in nautilus?
<dholbach> like HUGE
<seb128> dholbach, hey, yes, it's the new upstream UI
<dholbach> what?
<dholbach> this is serious?
<seb128> yes
<dholbach> and it's going to stay like this?
<seb128> rational is that it gives you a better look of the image previews, etc
<seb128> I don't know, we are taking feedback and might change the default zoom level
<seb128> I find it ridiculous myself and set it to the lowest value
<seb128> still quite big
<dholbach> if I look at files which have no previews the icons are much too aggressively big
<seb128> yeah, I think so
<seb128> welcome to GNOME UI design though
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748441
<ubot5> Gnome bug 748441 in Views: Icon View "Icons too large for Natilus/Files" [Normal,Needinfo]
<dholbach> I'm happy for them to try something new ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, can you open a bug in launchpad about that maybe so we can use to track the issue?
<dholbach> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/1522316
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1522316 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Icons are too big" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> dholbach, thanks
<Laney> hi
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hi didrocks pitti
<Laney> doing alright thanks!
<seb128> hey Laney, even one minute earlier today!
<Laney> hi seb128
<Laney> it was 09:00 when I opened my laptop even
<pitti> wow, seb128 is quite a note keeper
<Laney> I hope that someone is keeping track of when I leave :P
<seb128> pitti, :-)
<Laney> how are you all?
<seb128> good! you?
<pitti> great, thanks!
<Laney> oh we have s390x in launchpad now
<didrocks> crying :p
<pitti> new toys to play with^Wthings to worry about^Wmachines to dominate the world on^Wcan't make up my mind
<seb128> more weird archs to fix build issues on :-/
<Laney> probably more or less alriggt
<Laney> it's been in debian for years
<pitti> s390x is big endian, isn't it? we should have fixed most stuff on powerpc already
<seb128> that's the theory
<seb128> in practice I noticed that some people have been busy trying to get mir and qt and other things to build on it in xenial
<pitti> but we don't really care about that on s390
<pitti> if they fail there, it's fine
<seb128> well, no mir means gtk can't build
<pitti> it's just if they build once and *then* start failing
<seb128> or we need to disable the mir backend on that arch
<pitti> seb128: do we have mir on ppc64el, for example?
<pitti> I don't think many people would mind if gtk is missing on s390
<seb128> yes
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/0.17.1+16.04.20151105.1-0ubuntu1
<seb128> but yeah, maybe, let's see
<seb128> I assume whoever is adding the arch is doing it for a good reason ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes, but it's a server platform
<seb128> right
<Laney> There's a certain amount of effort required to bootstrap
<Laney> and where we have hardcoded arch lists for stuff they will need looking at
<Trevinho> morning
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<willcooke> morning Trevinho
 * Trevinho 's morning always starts with Ubuntu... http://farm1.staticflickr.com/622/23407758481_3585914216_b.jpg
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> these huge nautilus icons are funny
<Laney> might be disruptive to people who use desktop icons
<Laney> I like the headerbar though
<Laney> it looks nice to me
 * Trevinho doesn't agree about HB... :P
<Laney> why?
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney, seb128 .. (and previously didrocks)! :-)
<seb128> Laney, the icons are as big in nautilus views, I found them too much there as well
<Laney> yeah I saw those first then wondered if it also applied to the desktop
<Laney> could just be new UI effect though
<Laney> like the gnome-terminal tab bar which is now "whatever" to me
<didrocks> hum, I'm lost on that one
<didrocks> https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=plymouth-log-viewer&mode=exactfilename&suite=unstable&arch=any
<didrocks> -> shows up that plymouth-x11 contains in sid plymouth-log-viewer
<didrocks> clicking on it, clicking on file list
<willcooke> spooky, kernel modules compiling as part of an upgrade
<didrocks> https://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/plymouth-x11/filelist
<didrocks> -> none ?
<didrocks> willcooke: dkms?
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> never noticed it before
<didrocks> been like that for years ;)
<willcooke> suddenly the fans start going and I see CC running
<didrocks> ah, it's in the older package like powerpcspe
<didrocks> hum, I think I'll follow debian and keep log-viewer disable by now (it's also disabled upstream for quite long)
<didrocks> and we have systemd for messages
<seb128> what is log-viewer?
<didrocks> plymouth-log-viewer, a gtk apps to see plymouth logs
<didrocks> (basically messages sent to it)
<seb128> I don't many users need it
<seb128> I would just go with debian ;-)
<didrocks> yep, that's what I've done
<didrocks> but I have also removed the manpage then
<didrocks> what debian didn't do (I'll forward that) :p
<didrocks> and less diff, because we used to move it to another package to avoid gtk dep)
<larsu> good "morning"
<didrocks> hey larsu
<seb128> hey larsu!
<seb128> gym again today?
<larsu> no, some errands this morning
<larsu> how are you?
<seb128> I'm good, thank!s
<seb128> how are you?
<larsu> great! Got sore muscles from the new workout yesterday (got a plan from one of the trainers...)
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> I read that as 'some' muscles
<Laney> and got a sexy mental image
<Laney> (ahem)
<larsu> haha morning Laney ;)
<Laney> seb128: seems you have to kill/respawn nautilus after upgrading it to 3.18
<Laney> otherwise commandline arguments don't work
<Laney> couldn't open a directory from unity
<seb128> Laney, how do we usually deal with those? we can't just kill the process, copies might be ongoing
<seb128> another reason why "in session updates" are not a good idea...
<Laney> I'm not sure
<Laney> might be that the new one could handle it somehow
<seb128> did you look what the issue was?
<seb128> like invalid argument?
<Laney> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NotSupported: Application does not handle command line arguments
<Laney> oops
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1522348
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1522348 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Can't open directories without restarting Nautilus after upgrading from 3.14 to 3.18" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I've the feeling it's going to be non trivial to support
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> might just be a you have to restart your session thing
<seb128> yes
<andyrock> monring âï¸ :coffee:
<seb128> hey andyrock
<Laney> yo andyrock
 * Laney looks at some poppler/gdal
<seb128> ah, good!
<Laney> libreoffice is in there :(
<seb128> yeah :-/
<davmor2> Laney: seb128: should the new gnome apps that are going to be default be installed now on my system that I am updating daily?
<Laney> you will get them automatically if that is what you are asking
<davmor2> Laney: yes but should I for example get gnome calendar on my system today or is it not yet seeded
<Laney> not done yet, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.xenial/view/head:/desktop
<willcooke> Playing with new Nautilus.. don't like the new rename pop-up.  Connecting to SSH servers doesn't seem to work any more.  Also - do we get that new GDrive integration?
<seb128> willcooke, what's wrong with ssh servers?
<seb128> wfm
<Laney> me too
<willcooke> sad face
<seb128> GDrive, sort of, it relies on gnome-online-account, so only if you configure an account in gnome-control-center.real/under GNOME
<willcooke> Connect to: ssh://will@server:/home/will/
<willcooke> seb128,@ Gdrive - ack.  I like the sound of it, so I might have a play
<willcooke> @ ssh - tried scp too, no dice
<meetingology> willcooke: Error: "ssh" is not a valid command.
<willcooke> oh, you dont put the path in
<Laney> not the colon
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> any opinions on the rename?   I liked it being inline before.  Maybe I need to contemporise, man?
<davmor2> Laney: ah thanks that would explain why I'm not seeing it then :)
<Laney> Seems okay to me, just different
<Laney> I wouldn't think worth maintaining a patch to change it
<willcooke> fair
<seb128> willcooke, I think it's minor, the new dialog is functional et you don't rename that often
<willcooke> The alignment is wrong for me right now, I'll play and take a screenshot
<willcooke> of the pop up
<seb128> yes, please do
<seb128> seems fine there
<seb128> could be a few pixels of the middle but I'm unsure and not good at seeing those small things
<Laney> seb128: wdyt about demoting node-srs node-millstone node-carto openstreetmap-carto to xenial-proposed?
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/a/8G0Ds  (alignment on rename)
<larsu> looks good!
<seb128> Laney, I can confirm that, on desktop only though
<seb128> ups
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<seb128> Laney, I'm fine on principal, what's the rational?
<seb128> they fail to build and are not easy to fix?
<Laney> ftbfs, needs rebuild for gdal
<Laney> only the first one
<Laney> the rest are deps
<Laney> there is some problem with node in proposed
<seb128> k
<seb128> I can demote those
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> the rename thing doesn't happen for me
<Laney> weird
<willcooke> odd
<willcooke> Shall I log a bug?
<seb128> yes please
<willcooke> which package?
<seb128> nautilus
<willcooke> (I should have learned this by now)
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> Laney, ok, those are demoted
<seb128> and now lunch
<seb128> bbiab
<Laney> great!
<Laney> in your FACE node
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1522383
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1522383 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Rename dialog on desktop is misaligned" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, do you have signon-plugin-password installed?
<seb128> installing it makes things work on my xenial iso test
<seb128> (well, after killing evolution-source-registery and evolution-calendar-factory, which is another issue)
<Laney> yep
<seb128> yep you have it?
<Laney> i do
<Laney> and oauth2 too
<seb128> bah
<seb128> so for me booting xenial daily, adding a google account, killing e-s-r and e-c-f and starting gnome-calendar doesn't list anything
<seb128> installing signon-plugin-password and redoing the same and I get the calendar listed
<Laney> I'll try the debugging steps on the laptop
<Laney> after lunch
<didrocks> seb128: installed here as well
<didrocks> (both)
<seb128> didrocks, did you try to kill e-s-r and e-c-f after adding the account?
<didrocks> seb128: not the source registry
<didrocks> I did kill e-c-f multiple times
<didrocks> but I rebooted meanwhile
<didrocks> let's see if the calendar is here now
<seb128> with the account still configured?
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> so no, nothing appearing
<didrocks> (I keep it opened in case syncing takes timeâ¦)
<seb128> k, another issue then :-/
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ :/
<seb128> nop, not 2fa
<seb128> I was trying with my personnal google account
<seb128> just tried with the canonical one
<seb128> same, it works after restarting the e-d-s processes
<seb128> (I had one case where I had to kill signond as well)
<seb128> didrocks, the uoa panel lists the google account as enable and calendar is on?
<seb128> nothing obvious as an error in syslog?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, same than yesterday
<seb128> k, dunno, maybe an amd64 specific issue
<seb128> I did several fresh boot on xenial daily issue and it always works here
<seb128> but I'm on 32bits
<didrocks> unsure, let's see once Laney started to debug on his side, no need for all of us to debug (apart ifin the end, those are different issues)
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> ummmm
<Laney> what should I check?
<seb128> Laney, I'm unsure, I can't reproduce from an iso and it means it needs more debugging from somebody having the issue, but it can be kept as a post-ff bugfix item
<ricotz> seb128, hi, did you have a look at the nautilus zeitgeist patch?
<seb128> ricotz, not yet, doing that now
<ricotz> something seems off with the "X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain" stuff in gcr
<ricotz> seb128, thanks
<seb128> how so?
<ricotz>  /usr/share/applications/gcr-viewer.desktop contains "X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=gcrX-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gcr"
<seb128> hum, that looks wrong indeed
<Laney> missing \n
<seb128> Laney, in where?
<Laney> dunno, the desktop.in.in looks ok
<Laney> also
<Laney> I just installed that password package on an iso
<seb128> pkgbinarymangler (or whatever adds the line) should deal with no trailing new line
<Laney> it works after adding and restarting the session
<seb128> ah, good!
<seb128> so similar to my testing
<Laney> don't really want to restart my desktop session
<Laney> but killing eds-* and signon* doesn't get it
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13646317/
<seb128> k, it does on the iso for me
<Laney> so maybe this is still broken
<seb128> right, likely a different issue
<seb128> also the fact that it uses password and not oauth is also a bug
<seb128> but that might be https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749974
<ubot5> Gnome bug 749974 in Contacts "Use OAuth2 for Google sources" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> which is fixed in 3.19+
<seb128> Laney, also upstream is going to drop the prompter binary that uses gtk in the next cycles
<Laney> what is that?
<seb128> ricotz, uploaded, thanks
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=783172
<ubot5> Debian bug 783172 in evolution-data-server "evolution-data-server: Split out the GTK depends in their own binary" [Wishlist,Open]
<seb128> Laney, the bits I splitted out in that one
<Laney> I don't think I've seen that
<Laney> not this time anyway
<seb128> no, it's unrelated to the issue we were discussing
<seb128> I just asked about it while I was speaking to them
<Laney> oh ok
<seb128> if it was fine to split it
<seb128> and they said it's going away
<Laney> ah
<Laney> I got it now!
<seb128> oh?
<seb128> what I was saying or the evo bug? ;-)
<Laney> the accounts
<Laney> calendars*
<seb128> how?
<Laney> missed to pkill evolution-*
<Laney> just did eds
<Laney> so the bug is that you need to kill processes to get new accounts to show up
<seb128> yeah, that's a known/confirmed bug
<seb128> so didrocks is having another issue, because that didn't do it for him
<Laney> eds upstream plan to fix it?
<Laney> or is it signond? /me sucks at this stack
<didrocks> so many bugsâ¦
<didrocks> I don't have evolution installed though
<Laney> me neither
<Laney> this is evolution-calendar-factory in eds
<didrocks> yeah, soâ¦ I restarted my session since yesterday
<Laney> and/or evolution-source-registry
<didrocks> with the account created
<didrocks> so, I should have it fixed here
<Laney> then I guess get the debugging info and show mardy
<didrocks> yep, not today though, but tomorrow morning
<didrocks> where is the bug info with debugging steps already?
<Laney> dunno, I just saw on #ubuntu-devel today
<Laney> 03/12 09:18:17 <mardy> seb128: but to debug the notification: please do "echo 'LoggingLevel=2' > ~/.config/signond.conf", then kill signond, try again, and you should get some info in the syslog
<Laney> 03/12 09:19:05 <mardy> seb128: and to get even more info: kill signon-ui, and run this on a terminal: SSOUI_LOGGING_LEVEL=2 SSOUI_DAEMON_TIMEOUT=9999 signon-ui
<Laney> 03/12 09:19:42 <mardy> seb128: if then you could share these logs with me, it could help (make sure to replace any tokens with XXXXX)
<didrocks> ok, logged, thx Laney!
<seb128> Laney, upstream said that "evolution-source-registry does listen for "account-created" on an ag_manager_new(); object" so it should work
<seb128> I'm doing a build atm to see if I can find out some issue
<Laney> ok, thanks for looking into it!
<seb128> yw!
 * Laney dbuses the bus of d
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> Laney, I know why you don't have the rename popover misplacement
<Laney> don't say hidpi
<seb128> Laney, your launcher is configured to hide, right?
<Laney> because I tried it on two machines
<Laney> ah!
<Laney> yes of course
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> what's that got to do with it?
<seb128> it seems it doesn't account for docks for the placement
<seb128> well, it's shifted by the launcher width
<seb128> unsure what's wrong in nautilus code though
<seb128> didn't look at it
<seb128> but I guess they don't use the right area
<didrocks> ok, I guess that's enough for today :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<willcooke> see ya didrocks
<didrocks> good night willcooke
<Laney> bye di
<willcooke> ha
<Laney> blast it
<willcooke> qengho, should that xdg open bug be fixed for me in your ppa yet?  cos it isn't (I think)
<qengho> willcooke: I don't think so. I made a debdiff package for X main, and someone jumped in front of me so my diff doesn't apply now and it hasn't been applied.
<qengho> I need to update it. I will.
<willcooke> hehe, no worries - just checking to make sure I wasn't missing something
<willcooke> g'night all
<seb128> night
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-12-04
<Saviq> OMG huge icons...
<hikiko> Hello
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> didrocks: je suis en route :) salut d'Ulm
<pitti> Laney: can you please have a look at the autopkgtest stuff today? internet is almost nonexistant here I'm afraid
<pitti> hm, is that instance cleanup script a bit overzealous?
<pitti> seb128: bonjour !
<seb128> salut pitti!
<pitti> I have a funny bug; after yesterday's dist-upgrade my icons on the desktop are now huuuuge
<seb128> it's not a bug
<seb128> it's GNOME design
<pitti> err, wut?
<seb128> they made icons bigger so you have a better view of the previews&co
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748441
<ubot5> Gnome bug 748441 in Views: Icon View "Icons too large for Natilus/Files" [Normal,Needinfo]
<didrocks> hey pitti! bon voyage :)
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1522316 targetted for xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1522316 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Icons are too big" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> lut didrocks
<pitti> seb128: ah, merci
<seb128> de rien
<pitti> there goes my internet again, /me waves
<pitti> off to some quiet hacking time :)
<seb128> brb, going to go guy something to eat
<pitti> yeah, eat a guy already
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> Laney: argh, silly me -- the cron job was "* */6", that's why it runs every minute; fixed to "0 */6" now
<pitti> hey larsu!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> guten morgen & bonjour pitti & didrocks!
<Trevinho> Morning
<seb128> hey Trevinho larsu
<seb128> happy friday!
<seb128> how are you doing?
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<Trevinho> happy friday too :-)
<Trevinho> Well, still the same... BTW seb128 I heard we'll meet in London in a week or so ;-(
<Trevinho> err ;-)
<seb128> yeah :-)
<seb128> going to be in London next thursday
<dgadomski> good morning
<dgadomski> I need to completely restrict users (except a certain group) from accessing the cdrom
<dgadomski> I tried removing the "uaccess" tag in udev from all ID_CDROM devices, so the access is limited to members of the cdrom group
<dgadomski> but the cds still get automounted without checking access to the device
<dgadomski> do you have any idea how to achieve this?
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<Laney> morning!
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hey seb128, happy friday!
<seb128> thanks, you too!
<Laney> what's happening in london?
<seb128> Laney is curious
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> in the "always wanting to know what's going on" sense
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho is visiting people and spending a week there, going to from the office it looks like
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> secret trips
<Laney> ahoy didrocks
<seb128> Laney, I and willcooke are going for a day to talk to design about theme, headerbars, etc
<seb128> you should maybe come
<seb128> easy train trip for you?
<seb128> thursday
<Laney> hmmmm
<Laney> I guess I would have been invited if I was wanted
<Laney> just do the right thing!
<seb128> yeah, I'm undecided
<seb128> balancing between "just ship what upstream is doing" and "we have most of the work done to keep things consistent so might as well stick to that for the lts"
<willcooke> Laney, of course you are welcome to come down if you like
<willcooke> it's also Christmas do that day
<seb128> I was not expecting the nautilus menubar patch to be that much work for example though
 * Laney gets a ubuntu-meta s390x build failure
<Laney> XNOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
<didrocks> +X?
<Laney> XxXxX
<didrocks> humâ¦
<didrocks> I probably made a mistake on the seed as well
<didrocks> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-amd64.manifest
<didrocks> russian anyone? :)
<Laney> good language
 * didrocks looks at the Languages: variable subtitution syntax
<didrocks> did I make a booboo?
<Laney> how come you didn't upload ubuntu-meta?
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> no comma :)
<Laney> oh live only?
<didrocks> Laney: live only, yeah ;)
<didrocks> Laney: do you want to request a new build after I push my fix?
<Laney> need to wait for germinate to run
<Laney> tell me when apt-cache show pkg | grep Task is right
<didrocks> oh? that's not part of the biuld itself?
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> committed, let's wait for a germinate run :p
 * didrocks whistles, that was a collector image :p
<Laney> now what happened to the poppler migration :(
<davmor2> Laney: xnox is hard core surely it should be XNOxXx
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<Laney> hey pitti!
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> pitti: any idea what happened to blacklist on worker.conf on the armhf cyclops nodes?
<Laney> apw just noticed that they are dead "ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'blacklist' in section: 'autopkgtest'"
<Laney> pitti: ah right, I can't read git blame, this is new
<Laney> I'm going to add a default, scream quickly if I shouldn't
<Laney> no scream: done :)
<Laney> how come more poppler packages showed up?
<Laney> tex wasn't there yesterday
<didrocks> Laney: do you know if germinate is cronned or anything? (or if I can get the info myself :p)
<Laney> it is, or part of the publisher, or something
<Laney> I have lp:ubuntu-archive-publishing in my brain
<Laney> might be wrong th ough
<didrocks> let me have a lookg
<didrocks> as last run is still this morning http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.xenial/
<didrocks> hum, no germinate wrapper script hook in publish-distro.d/
<Laney> think that is a different one
<didrocks> ah?
<didrocks> well, otherwise, that can wait over the next official run and check on Monday
<larsu> hey seb128!
<larsu> (was at dentist)
<didrocks> just wanted to have that looked a little bit earlier as it's in my mind
<Laney> look in apt-cache show pkg
<Laney> if you use chdist on snakefruit that is the most up to date
<didrocks> yeah, still nothing after ~1h
<didrocks> ah, good idea
 * didrocks does
<Laney> laney@snakefruit:~$ sudo -u ubuntu-archive chdist apt-cache xenial-amd64 show myspell-en-za | grep Task
<Laney> Task: ubuntu-live
<Laney> heeeeeeey larsuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<didrocks> Laney: yep, confirmed (with language-pack-fr, the most important of them!)
<didrocks> Laney: mind kicking a kind build? :p
<didrocks> (or even, an excellent one as it will have moarrrrr languages!)
<Laney> ok going
<didrocks> thanks Laney ;)
<Laney> let's see the size increase!
<didrocks> oooooOOOOOOOO
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> morning Laney!
<larsu> how's things? happy Friday!
<Laney> good, I can see blue sky for the first time in weeks! and friday!
<Laney> off to wales tonight
<didrocks> Laney: give it back to us!
<Laney> the radio just said that this november was the dullest in 84 (or so) years
<didrocks> Laney: it's not kind for pitti to have stolen it ;)
<Laney> wait, is he offline travelling to you?
<didrocks> yep!
<Laney> it all fits together!
<didrocks> well, I guess he can fetch some network at train stations :)
<flocculant> it's raining in Wales till March Laney ... or 2025 - who knows it's Wales
<didrocks> (if the train is slowwwwwwww or stopped)
<Laney> flocculant: we looked at the mountain top forecast for cadair idris
<Laney> looked like we would be blown off the top
<Laney> going to pack the kite
<Laney> larsu: how are you? good dentist?
<flocculant> :)
<didrocks> Laney: happy kit(ting?) :p
<larsu> Laney: no :(
<didrocks> :/
<larsu> Laney: well, the dentist is good. What he told me isn't
<larsu> (he's actually *very* nice)
 * larsu needs 2 fillings replaced
<didrocks> urgh, I can imagine this isn't pleasant
<Laney> would be better if we could walk this though https://picasaweb.google.com/103348567853548254004/20090503WALKCadairIdrisTheMinfforddPath#5403584357595279378
<didrocks> Laney: nice!
<Laney> larsu: oh :/
<larsu> ooh totem patch from 6 months ago was committed \o/
<Laney> ^_^
<Laney> mvo: are those snappy processes of yours on cady (porter-armhf) in use?
<Laney> the box is slammed and it looks like they might be stale
<mvo> Laney: let me kill them
<Laney> woot
 * Laney has contributed to the load meanwhile
<mvo> Laney: I just tried to build snappy there
<Laney> ah looked like they were a few days old
<Laney> if they are still useful then don't kill :)
<mvo> Laney: they are not useful but also not killable it seems, tried kill -9 no luck
<didrocks> we have an iso (and so, went from 1.2 to 1.3 Gb, as planned) \o/
 * didrocks goes back to plymouth, will do those tests next week
<Laney> mvo: oh noes, maybe we'll need to ask IS
<Laney> mvo: also, how rude of me, hi and happy friday :)
<xnox> Laney, i will do meta, once everything finished building.
<xnox> Laney, it shouldn't affect migration.
<xnox> Laney, i tried to look at poopler and couldn't figure it out. we seem to have a lot of things in proposed.
<Laney> hi xnox
<xnox> =)
<Laney> happy friday to you too
<Laney> I just looked at poppler and chatted some shit about it in #release
<Laney> how on earth can there be a component mismatch with qtbase?
<Laney> wait
<Laney> SILO!
 * Laney huffs
<Laney> xnox: so the old version in bootstrap is minorly annoying
<Laney> can you bump it in there so that we don't get any more things built against the old soname before we fix the archive?
<Laney> Mirv: hi, looks like publicsuffix needs MIR https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.5.1+dfsg-6ubuntu1/+build/8388165
<xnox> Laney, sorry, no. We did stage as many abi transitions possible, but there was a gap. And our 28 builders are so good that they keep chugging away building things, with old abi, in -release pocket.
<Laney> yes well if you bump it then nothing more gets broken
<Laney> before then we have to get mir, build qt, build poppler
<xnox> Laney, if there is transition tracker, or arch skew, i shall be fixing it.....
<Laney> which is pretty seriously annoying given that it was nearly migrated yesterday
<Laney> and libreoffice is affected too
<Laney> awesome
<xnox> Laney, poppler was done on 22nd november.... i'm confused as to how we missed it =(
<xnox> haha, we can't cause it doesn't build on s390x.
<xnox> yet.
<xnox> sigh, i shall fix it.
<Laney> like a real failure?
<Laney> there were almost no changes vs the previous version
<xnox> well, silos building against universe... and i'm having uninstallable qtbase5-dev on s390x.... my stuff.
<Mirv> Laney: thank you
<faenil> hello o/
<faenil> I've noticed ubuntu-desktop-next pulls in system-image-cli
<faenil> on desktop
<faenil> as a consequence, calling add-apt-repository on desktop prints usage msg from system-image-cli multiple times
<didrocks> Laney: I didn't tell you the fun part about this plymouth mergeâ¦
<didrocks> upstream changed it's spacing syntax from 2 spaces to 8
<didrocks> you can imagine how fun it is with our number of patches :p
 * Laney cries for you
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<xnox> didrocks, i remember doing something crazy. there is gnu tool to reformat patches indentation, and then use whitespace ignore diff to figure out things.
<didrocks> xnox: I'm just using sed, works quite well :p
<didrocks> especially for this "misc_patches"
<didrocks> basically, all undocumented things that went in year after year :)
<xnox> didrocks, oh that one, yeah it is crazy patch "keybuk did things..."
<didrocks> (also, most of patches are not documented, even if separated)
<didrocks> xnox: yeah, with debian versionsâ¦
<didrocks> just to make the merge even more confusing :p
<Laney> that was a Keybuk thing
<Laney> "we are upstream for this package, the version namespace is ours"
<didrocks> yeah, not nice :/
<didrocks> I'm amazed by the number of uploads without description (like why this patch has been disabled and such?)
<Laney> didrocks: can you remove openmw and binaries from xenial-proposed please?
<Laney> borked on armhf, want to upload a rebuild of the old version
<didrocks> Laney: sure, you meant source and binaries?
<Laney> yep
<didrocks> Laney: done!
<Laney> merci!
<didrocks> de rien :)
<Laney> food time
 * didrocks goes to fetch pitti at the train station
<larsu> didrocks: say hi to him!
<didrocks> larsu: done :p
<desrt> hello desktopians
<Laney> ahoy desrt
<Laney> how's dconf?
<Laney> hey didrocks and pitti
<didrocks> hey desrt :) re Laney!
<desrt> Laney: stuff is changing!
<desrt> gsettingsbackend is being ripped up fairly good
<desrt> hopefully not too much breaks :)
<pitti> Ã§a va mes amis !
<pitti> mon internet est cassÃ©, il parle franÃ§ais maintenant !
 * pitti donne une accolade Ã  didrocks
 * didrocks donne une accolade Ã©galement
<Laney> didrocks is always showing off about his fast internet
<Laney> you should download all the linux isos
<pitti> Laney: "I'm going to add a default" -> what? where? how?
<Laney> see autopkgtest-cloud
<pitti> Laney: linux isos? still ENOCLUE :/
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/commit/?id=90d85a52a52360521a7f749bca090d8f53b1aa43
<pitti> Laney: aah, I see; where did I forget to set it?
<Laney> worker.conf for armhf
<pitti> Laney: argh, thanks for that
<Laney> thank apw for noticing, I just monkeyed up this :)
<Laney> they were down overnight so the armhf queue was about 1300 this morning
<Laney> exciting!
<pitti> Laney: yeah, go glibc :)
<Laney> good thing is we have another qtbase upload coming!
 * Laney hopes xnox does it before the weekend
<Laney> so that 9999 kde tests can happen in time for monday
<xnox> Laney, .... yes.....
 * Laney snuggles xnox 
<Laney> I never doubted you
<Laney> rooibos time
<xnox> Laney, i am in conference calls, but yeah, fiddling things.
<Laney> the life of a customer facing engineer eh
<pitti> Laney: ok, any fires to be put out by me still?
<pitti> I'm not aware of anything right now other than the queues being achingly long of course
<Laney> pitti: there are some alerts, no idea about most of them
<pitti> I briefly checked, looks like the usual noise
<pitti> that noise for sure needs to be addresed, but not ona Friday evening
<Laney> timeouts and random stuff
<Laney> I didn't think it was anything OMG worthy
<Laney> so would have deleted pending.txt but that doesn't seem to exist any more
<pitti> right
<pitti> glibc is only a small change
<pitti> and it has quite some green
<pitti> I'm almost tempted to hint it in and flush the queus
<pitti> Laney: pending.json now indeed
<Laney> can rm that one?
<pitti> Laney: no, please don't
<pitti> Laney: britney will re-request all 2.000 tests again
<Laney> pitti: well then :)
<pitti> Laney: you can remove individual tests from it if you care, of course
<pitti> but either we let the glibc/qt flood settle down, or we hint it through and flush
<Laney> do you have a way to flush just the glibc ones?
<Laney> if you want to hint it in
<pitti> Laney: no, I don't
<pitti> Laney: in that case, it's (1) flush all queues, (2) remove pending.json
<pitti> and britney will just re-request the other ones
<Laney> after force-skiptest I presume
<pitti> yes
<Laney> is the trigger in the amqp queue?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> you can see it on running.html
<Laney> yeah didn't know if that was retrieved out of band somehow
<pitti> but while it's trivial to flush all requests, it requires code to filter out the glibc ones
<Laney> so you could do something similar to running.shtml but ack those ones
<pitti> right
<pitti> but honestly, full flush and rm pending.json is simpler and safer
<Laney> seems annoying to have to remember to come back later
<pitti> Laney: I'm not sure which way around the hints are processed
<pitti> Laney: if force-skiptest is looked at before requesting tests, then we can hint and flush at the same time
<pitti> that seems worht writing a test for, and fix if it doesn't DTRT
<pitti> Laney: filed bug 1522893 for that
<ubot5> bug 1522893 in Auto Package Testing "Ensure to check hints before issuing requests" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522893
<pitti> but this time I'll just wait the ten minutes, Friday evening and all :)
<Laney> :)
<pitti> Depends: glibc linux
<pitti> le what??
<pitti> versioned linux-libc-dev or whatnot?
<pitti> Laney: dang, I wrote the test case, and it does request tests even with a force-skiptest
 * pitti cecks how difficult that is to fix
<Laney> it seems elegant to me to have force-skiptest cancel the outstanding requests
<Laney> but I don't know how robust the read-and-ack implementation would be
<pitti> Laney: britney can't do that, it's not allowed to consume AMQP requests ATM
<pitti> we could relax that of course, but meh fiddly
<pitti> for now I just want to fix it to not issue new requests for force-skiptests
<pitti> it's not entirely trivial, but I'm currently looking at it, should not be too hard either
<Laney> pitti: OK then, that sounds like a good improvement anyway
<pitti> ÃA MARCHE !
<pitti> Laney: ^ pushing the fix
<pitti> and britney just copied the kernel and glibc
<pitti> so whatever :)
<pitti> (that was before my fix even)
<pitti> so I blame any breakage on apw now, on the new linux 4.3 kernel
<xnox> \o/
<xnox> lovely
<pitti> Laney: ok, all done, next britney run ought to re-queue stuff
<pitti> xnox: right, you were waiting on that glibc
<xnox> but e.g. zipl-installer was not copied over.
<pitti> right in time for EOW :)
<xnox> i wonder if i will need to ask to hint all the s390 d-i stuff to go in together....
<didrocks> xnox: btw, what's your ETA for the MIRs?
<didrocks> (you shamelessy squeezed the queue :p)
<xnox> didrocks, ASAP. they are all built now, but not yet migrated to release.
<xnox> didrocks, when they migrate to release, i'll be very sad on monday, if there is no progress on them =(
<xnox> didrocks, i filed out the form dully and to the best of my knowledge, all build correctly, and e.g. foundations bugs are subscribed.
<didrocks> xnox: ok, will add some to the list and try to do some early next week :)
<xnox> didrocks, most of the packages are tiny, the s390-tools & libpfm4 are the only big ones =)
<xnox> didrocks, yeah, sounds lovely =)
<didrocks> xnox: just remind me on Monday if you will
<didrocks> (just in case I'm side-tracked)
<xnox> didrocks, well, i should migrate them and procrastinate a bit, then i'll remind you about them ;-)
<didrocks> heh ;)
<Laney> happy weekends!
 * Laney zzzzzzzzzooms to wales
<qengho> Careful, there are Welsh there!
 * pitti waves good bye, have a nice weekend everyone!
<didrocks> see you on Monday pitti!
<didrocks> hem, WAIT!
<willcooke> g'night all, happy weekends
<davmor2> grrrrr new nautilus has silly sized folders on 4k and stupid meter bar does go away on the launcher icon even though it finished the transfer :(
<xnox> davmor2, your problem seems to be with a 4k display, rather than nautilus. have you tried using a different screen?
 * xnox ponders if i will regret ordering a 4k display
<davmor2> xnox: it's big on the 1080p screen too
<xnox> davmor2, sorry i cannot see any icons, i'm in drowing in virtual punchcard tapes here =)
<davmor2> xnox: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/big-new-nautilus.png
<xnox> davmor2, oh that's normal
<xnox> davmor2, you should see fedora, they had that pain for 1 or 2 releases now.
<xnox> davmor2, there is a butoon in top right to make things smaller.
<davmor2> xnox: yes but that is hideously big icons
<xnox> davmor2, CONVERGENCE =)
<davmor2> xnox: no it isn't that is just ugly
<xnox> davmor2, i'ts lovely on touch screens, and people with bad eye sight
<xnox> davmor2, how dare you speak against fedora technical commitee =)))))))
<davmor2> xnox: the 4k is a touch screen and not it isn't ;)
<xnox> i know, i think we can change the default size in gsettings overrides?!
<xnox> cause it must be gsettings driver.
<xnox> cause it must be gsettings driven.
 * xnox is on wily
<davmor2> xnox: wuss, xenial or it's dead to me, until I need to test 14.04.4 obviously then xenial is dead to me too ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-05
<hikiko> hi
<happyaron> hikiko: hey, :)
<happyaron> pitti: hi, I pushed a new branch to n-m repo, for xenial SRU of 1.2.4, mind to have a look?
 * desrt wakes up with an IRC hangover
<desrt> looks like OFTC was a fun place to be last night
<andyrock> morning
<desrt> good morning
 * desrt finds the "delete active private messages" button on irccloud to be surprisingly useful
<andyrock> desrt: did you get spam too?
<desrt> i woke up with about 10000 (seriously) new queries
<desrt> from _aawjeeoijweofji to zzerjgeoijwe
<desrt> (names approximate)
<andyrock> same here
<desrt> morning, seb
<hikiko> hi happyaron pitti desrt andyrock
<desrt> good morning
<pitti> Good morning! Hello from Sevilla
<happyaron> morning desrt pitti seb128
<desrt> happyaron: hey :)
<willcooke> Good morning all
<willcooke> A rather chilly minus 3 here today
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<Laney> moin!
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> didn't wait for the bbc this morning?
<pitti> seb128, Laney, willcooke: Â¡bueons dias!
 * pitti waves from Seville
<pitti> seb128: greetings back from StevenK!
<seb128> pitti, ola!
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, had a nice w.e/trip to spain? How is Sevilla?
<Laney> oh
<Laney> forgot it was the sprint!
<pitti> seb128: haven't seen much of it -- I only landed at 19:30, it was dark and raining cats and dogs
<pitti> but looking nice this morning
<pitti> we'll have a scavenger hunt tomorrow evening, then we can actually see $outside
<pitti> seb128: and Nuernberg on Saturday was nice too; hung out with Steve and visited the Emperor castle and the christmas market
<seb128> ah, nice
<seb128> mulled wine and nice food?
<Laney> seb128: no, I was watching tv instead and that finished earlier than 09:00 ;-)
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> seb128: we had food in a nice pub, so just the Gluehwein and Gluehbier on the market :)
<seb128> Gluehbier?
<seb128> like warm beer?
<pitti> yes, with spices; surprisingly good
<desrt> we have this here too
<desrt> i was... afraid
<seb128> I wouldn't dare trying
<desrt> willcooke: good morning :)
<willcooke> hey desrt
<seb128> warm and beer that doesn't work
<desrt> thanks for the +1
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> morning seb :)
<seb128> looks like those Bluehbier are not even German, they import it from Belgium
<seb128> "The fruits and spices found in GlÃ¼hbier are one of the biggest reasons it is so hard to find in Germany. Technically, German brewers can't even make it. They adhere to the German Beer Purity Law, which states beer may only consist of malt, hops, yeast, and water."
<desrt> lol.  yay for european free trade
<desrt> probably explains why it's so easy to find around here.. .pretty quick trip across the border
<davmor2> Morning all
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 Laney davidcalle desrt willcooke pitti happyaron andyrock hikiko
<seb128> hey davmor2
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<happyaron> hey guys
<flexiondotorg> How is everyone?
<hikiko> morning flexiondotorg seb128 Laney willcooke davidcalle and everyone :p
<hikiko> we could write a script that says hello to every nick listed here :)
<willcooke> hey happyaron, did you manage to get the 1.2.4 NM -> X finished on Friday?
<happyaron> willcooke: yep, in git now
<willcooke> happyaron, nice one!!
<seb128_> hey hikiko happyaron
<seb128_> (sorry, ip change and irc didn't like it)
<davmor2> Bon jour seb128
<happyaron> :)
<seb128_> happyaron, btw did you see that upstream rolled out 1.2.6 updates on friday? ;-)
<seb128_> there seems to be little changes in those though
<happyaron> yes I saw that
<seb128_> just fixing some issues from previous ones so maybe worth going for those directly?
<happyaron> haven't looked at details yet, can do tomorrow
<happyaron> (time to off today, :D
<seb128_> happyaron, enjoy your evening!
<happyaron> ty
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: weekend was mixed. good stuff: two family birthday parties. bad stuff: grandma had a stroke and visiting her under intensive care in the hospital ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, urg, sorry to read that :-( hope she's going to get better
<Sweet5hark> seb128: Thankful that we still have her around though. Hardly anything one can take for granted with someone born in 191 ...
<Sweet5hark> 1921
<seb128> right...
<hikiko> hey :) question: any tricks to accelerate the build apart from distcc that accelerates it but not so much as I'd like it too... :)
<hikiko> what do you do when you have to build huge projects?
<popey> if I am building over and over again I use ccache
<popey> also, build on someone elses faster computer :)
<hikiko> like a build server?
<hikiko> tried ccache and distcc it does accelerate it but not that much
<hikiko> no miracles :)
<popey> ccache is only really useful if you repeatedly build something
<popey> also, I use PPAs or remote VPSs for big things I don't want to bog my laptop down with
<popey> but yeah, no magic bullets
<hikiko> yeah the build server needs about the same time according to qengho
<hikiko> 1hr or so for a clean build
<hikiko> so I guess, I'll just switch tasks in the meantime or: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/compiling.png
<hikiko> (just kidding about the 2nd)
<hikiko> :p
<Trevinho> Laney: hey, I've some job for you :-)
<Trevinho> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2208
<Laney> Trevinho: I've seen that before ...
<Laney> didn't I already do it?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, it probably wasn't published because of a missing approval, tho
<Laney>  2016-11-30 14:04:36 +0000 (laney) Publish failed: Bad merges
<Laney> mmm
<Trevinho> :-)
<Laney> AZZARONE
<Trevinho> yeah, I didn't noticed that it was something missing
<Trevinho> ahaha
<Trevinho> which... behind the scenes, has some similarity with some imprecation too :-D
 * Laney tries again :|
<Trevinho> just add an L in front... OR a C :-D... I'll leave that for you in a wordreference exercise ;-)
 * Laney sucks at google translate :P
<Laney> seb128: can you run new-binary-debian-universe please? :-)
<Laney> #ubuntu-please-do-me-favours
<hikiko> Trevinho, busy?
<Trevinho> Laney: well, wordreference can help more in general, as it has more terms :-)
<Trevinho> hikiko: nope, hey!
<hikiko> hey :)
<hikiko> I am gonna ask you a few questions in prv if you have some time to not flood this channel :)
<Laney> intriguing
<Laney> https://twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/status/805752333275721728
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Laney> Trevinho: do you have an election now or just a new PM?
<seb128> Laney, done for n-b-d-u
<Laney> thanks <3
<Laney> may this hell end
<Trevinho> seb128: hey... Well it was good, then sad because of the referendum results... It's just incredibile how people wants change, then when they can get it, they just protest again.
<Trevinho> Laney: hard to say yet... The president has to decide. He's not obliged, but it will be hard to find a majority in parliament now
<Trevinho> So... Probably some interim government, then elections
<seb128> they don't want that sort of change
<seb128> they want somebody to throw the table
<seb128> seems like it's a time where people are just angry and take any opportunity to vote against anything coming from etablished political groups
<Trevinho> Yeah... But this vortex won't ever end. Since at some point, everybody has to become "the power" to attack.
<seb128> well it might
<seb128> I don't know much how it is in italy
<seb128> but for countries which alternate between the same 2 parties all the time the people got used to share the power and it looks like they don't feel like they need to keep honest, they are just spoiled
<seb128> having a few elections like the Trump one might bring them back to reality and to realize they need to get work done and work for the country, just don't keep doing nice random void speeches and blaming the ones currently in charge waiting their turn at the next election to change nothing
<Trevinho> Well, we never had a single-color government for years, so... It's also that...
<Trevinho> people doesn't really likes compromises, thus the actual democracy.
<seb128> not sure about that, but they don't like that politics keep saying things until they are elected and not do anything of what they said then
<Laney> argh
<Laney>  libqt5qml5 : Depends: libdouble-conversion1v5 (>= 2.0.0) but it is not installable
<Laney> more transitions
 * Laney has made a directory called "hell" to work in
 * Laney is definitely not overly dramatic
<dobey> Laney: golang? :)
<Laney> actually not yet
<Laney> been trying to migrate some stuff from proposed for ages
<Laney> every time I look it's gotten worse
<Laney> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/04/21/blob_like_fatberg_removed_from_london_sewer.html
<Laney> something like that
<seb128> the start of the cycle autosync transitions can be fun indeed...
<Laney> this is particularly bad
<dobey> Laney: yeah, mesa/glibc is broken at the moment, so good luck :)
<Laney> someone go upload poppler to complete the set
<seb128> it's in the sponsoring queue!
<seb128> oh, no
<seb128> I though it was
<Laney> :|
<Laney> oh
<Laney> :D
<seb128> bug #1639478
<ubot5> bug 1639478 in poppler (Ubuntu) "Merge with Debian 0.48.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1639478
<seb128> he was waiting for the gdal transition to complete before subscribing sponsors
<Laney> sensible
<seb128> was->is
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> that is this one
<seb128> no fun
<seb128> in the good old days we would just have uploaded
<Laney> didn't have migration back then
<Laney> those were happy days
<seb128> indeed
<Laney> just get half your system uninstalled
<seb128> blame it on p_itti!
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> figured out a way to upload qtdeclarative anyway
<Laney> silos are the best
<Laney> for bootstrapping stuff
<seb128> heh
<seb128> pitti, cyphermox, hey, did you see that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/1.2.2-0ubuntu0.16.04.2 seemed to create some DNS issues (for VPN users?)
<seb128> e.g bug #1633003
<ubot5> bug 1629611 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1633003 dns server priority broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629611
<seb128> or the SRU bug has a comment about a regression as well
<cyphermox> seb128: I wasn't really watching those, Aron has been maintaining NM?
<cyphermox> and that bug is incredibly unclear and confusing
<seb128> cyphermox, bug #1633874 might be better/have more info
<ubot5> bug 1633874 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "VPN - "Additional DNS servers" Settings are being Ignored" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633874
<seb128> cyphermox, or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1592721/comments/9
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1592721 in network-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "Don't write search domains to resolv.conf in the case of split DNS" [Medium,Fix released]
<seb128> cyphermox, and yeah, happyaron is maintaining it but that SRU has your name and pitti's on it so I'm going with the principle of "who is creating a regression is owning it", especially whoever is doing a change has more context on the change and it makes sense for them to follow up rather than asking to somebody else to try to understand what has been done and why to try to figure out the issue then
<cyphermox> I don't know that my name is on that, pitti has been driving the DNS resolution magic
<cyphermox> that doesn't mean that I won't look, just that I don't have much context
<seb128> +++ network-manager-1.2.2/debian/patches/dns-manager-don-t-merge-split-DNS-search-domains.patch	2016-09-27 08:33:54.000000000 +0000
<seb128> @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
<seb128> +From: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre <mathieu.trudel-lapierre@canonical.com>
<meetingology> seb128: Error: "@" is not a valid command.
<seb128> cyphermox, oh well, thanks, going to check with pitti what's going on then and why he wrote your name in there
<cyphermox> that's a very old patch
<seb128> well it was added in the SRU creating the regression
<seb128> see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/286824187/network-manager_1.2.2-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_1.2.2-0ubuntu0.16.04.2.diff.gz
<cyphermox> really? because seems like it was in before that, IIRC
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> nevermind
<cyphermox> that's unlikely to be the cause for the regression
<cyphermox> (in fact, it should be *fixing* such issues, except not some other similar problems)
<seb128> cyphermox, #1633003 states
<seb128> "After downloading version 1.2.2-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 copies of libnm-glib-vpn1:amd64 libnm-glib4:amd64 libnm-util2:amd64 libnm0:amd64 network-manager:amd64 and installing them via: sudo -H dpkg -i *.deb my name resolution started working again."
<cyphermox> as above, this is a complicated matter, and people in general don't understand how VPNs and split tunnelling in the first place
<seb128> cyphermox, reading #1633874 it seems the user just connect to a vpn configured with the gui and add a dns in the corresponding config tab
<seb128> cyphermox, http://neartalk.com/ss/2016-10-16_001_601x625.png
<cyphermox> like I said, that's not how VPNs work
<cyphermox> split tunnelling isn't that simple
<cyphermox> (and given dnsmasq, it's explicitly not running things in order of appearance)
<seb128> can you maybe add a comment on #1633874 saying that?
<cyphermox> hum
<seb128> the user has been doing quite some work
<cyphermox> in this context I suppose it *is* a kind of regression
<cyphermox> I'm looking at the code to figure out what's the best course of action
<seb128> cyphermox, sorry to bother you, I just crossed that bug and the user has been downgrading is machine, trying in fresh vms, downgrading packages etc to try to find the issue so it would be nice to give him some ack so he doesn't feel ignored
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks! :-)
<seb128> cyphermox, also was that patch upstreamed? there is no bugzilla reference
<cyphermox> it might not have been, I'm not sure.
<cyphermox> maybe only on the ML
<seb128> k
<seb128> cyphermox, pitti, bug #1647133 and bug #1647066 also on zesty after the recent changes
<ubot5> bug 1647133 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network-manager 1.4.2-2ubuntu4 brakes network connection (Zesty)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647133
<ubot5> bug 1647066 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Systems with systemd-resolved disabled and dns=default in NetworkManager.conf no longer get DNS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647066
<seb128> cyphermox, sorry, it was slangasek who was mentioned in that one not you
<cyphermox> well, I already know about the latter, stgraber and I were discussing that in the airport this weekend :)
<seb128> k, I assumed there would be some direct discussions about it ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: it's a very complicated issue in general, and we've been moving in the right direction to making things work, but all of it needs still lots more love.
<cyphermox> tbf though, the patch you pointed to is quite unlikely to be the culprit (after I've reviewed it thoroughly). I think it's a problem with another patch I may or may not have written that may or may not have gone away with a merge, from the look of things
<cyphermox> but even then, it wouldn't apply anymore since NM reorganized a bunch of that code
 * cyphermox is ripping his hair out)
<cyphermox> I updated the bug and I'll wait for people to add more information
<Laney> seb128: can you terminate gyoto from zesty-proposed please?
<Laney> it doesn't build, needs rebuilding, want to upload the older one which works
<Laney> in fact even 1.1.1-3 worked
<Laney> not sure if that version can be resurrected
<kenvandine> attente, your content-hub glib bindings are in the process of landing
<kenvandine> attente, in zesty-proposed, once that migrates to release it'll merge your branch
<attente> kenvandine: great, thanks!
<kenvandine> attente, i'll look forward to the gtk branch landing :)
<attente> me too ;)
<Laney> back in a bit
<seb128> Laney, delete it?
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<flexiondotorg> Goodnight desktopers
<robert_ancell> willcooke, o/
<robert_ancell> Guess I better look at bug 1646784
<ubot5> bug 1646784 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/snapd-glib/snapd-login-service:11:read_data:read_from_snapd:read_cb:socket_source_dispatch:g_main_dispatch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646784
<willcooke> hey robert_ancell be with you in a few mins
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> when one sets the default apps in system settings, where the heck is that setting actually stored?!
<davmor2> dobey: dconf
<dobey> davmor2: uhm, not afaict. where exactly?
<davmor2> dobey: more of an assumption the other option would be gconf
<dobey> it's definitely not gconf
<dobey> i thought maybe it set it in a file in ~/.local/share/applications/ but i don't see evidence there either
<davmor2> dobey: update-alternatives maybe?
<davmor2> dobey: try /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives
<dobey> no, it's a user setting, not a system one
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-06
<hikiko> hello
<desrt> moin, desktop
<xnox> what is gnome-software written in? and why its gapplication-service is the second largest consumer of standby RAM on my laptop in zesty?
 * xnox is grumpy this morning
<happyaron> morning desrt xnox seb128 pitti
<xnox> also, i'm still questioning my intentions of updating to zesty during a sprint
<desrt> xnox: big database of apps?
<desrt> xnox: heavy toolkit user?
<xnox> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<xnox> i think i am just a normal laptop user, with uefi capsule support from dell
<xnox> i only have 3.6k packages installed
<seb128> hey desrt xnox happyaron
<desrt> our fearless (acting) leader!
<desrt> morning, seb :)
<seb128> xnox, g-s is written in C
<xnox> horum. i wonder if the memory size in system monitor is a lie
<xnox> and it's just all the shared libraries of the world (e.g. webkit)
<seb128> it has different columns
<seb128> "memory" should be the correct one
<seb128> it has different values for shared, etc
<desrt> look for writable
<desrt> everything else, really, is just cache....
<desrt> (ie: non-writable segments are just bits of shared libraries from the page cache... easily evicted and read back again if needed)
<xnox> 30M shared, 107M memory
<xnox> so there is 100M of runtime app usage, it would seem.
<desrt> ... look specifically for something that tells you how much "writable" memory
<seb128> desrt, I think that's what the "memory" column is in g-s-m no?
<desrt> in that case, don't subtract :p
<seb128> right
<seb128> like virtual memory for g-s is 180M here and memory is 60M
<desrt> highest users here: chromium, telegram(!), xorg, shell...
<desrt> as expected, more or less
<desrt> gnome-software is only using 18MB for me...
<seb128> xnox, but yeah it's annoying that it stays around as a service but it was needed for notifying about firmware updates and other things
 * desrt looks slightly guilty
<desrt> <gapplication> run the app forever!  if it needs to, it can clean up its static state before going into the background to save memory
<desrt> <every library ever> have some static state!  if you want to clear it, you can surely just exit(), right?
<desrt> <c language> hey guys!  have some memory fragmentation!!
<desrt> so ya.......
<desrt> i underestimated how serious this problem would be
<xnox> i will try to remove the firmware update plugin, restart gnome-software, and will check if that solves things.
<xnox> ..
<xnox> libgl1-mesa-glx libglapi-mesa from zesty-proposed results in ubiquity ftbfs (everything else is fine, the rest of the mesa update)
<xnox> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<xnox> xauth/Xrdb output:
<xnox> as in Xvfb fails
<desrt> xnox: i think gnome-software also puts a listener for apt updates
<desrt> since there is, otherwise, nothing to trigger something in the logged-in session on the basis of a system-level event
<xnox> is this known that src:mesa in zesty-proposed regresses xvfb?
<desrt> really, though: i think gnome-software is written poorly in terms of the never-exit thing... if it wants to sit around waiting for a couple of things, it should have a separate (tiny) process that does that, and signals the primary process when something happens
<seb128> xnox, tjaalton might know
<desrt> gapplication is all about activating in response to events... there really is no excuse to have this thing long-running like it is
<desrt> of course, this is probably quite disruptive to its current plugin model :/
<seb128> desrt, xnox, right, disabling the firmware plugin isn't going to solve anything. It has been written to start with the session and stick around as a service, it's just that we discussed changing that but the people working on g-s in Ubuntu had a consensus against because the service is sometime useful (like for firmwares) and g-s was getting in a weird state when exiting and restarting
<seb128> It= g-s
<desrt> imho this is something that should be solved properly
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1647600
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1647600 in mesa (Ubuntu) "Xvfb fails with new mesa, results in ubiquity FTBFS" [Critical,New]
<desrt> unfortunately, the "proper" fix probably means that every plugin, in effect, becomes two plugins
<xnox> seb128, i'm ok with gnome-software hanging around forever
<xnox> we already have udpate-manager hanging around forever, can that poke g-s when things change?
<xnox> i'm wondering if the firmware plugin is the memory hog.
<seb128> xnox, bug #1646064 might be the same?
<ubot5> bug 1646064 in glibc (Ubuntu) "investigate autopkgtest regressions in 2.24-7ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646064
<desrt> xnox: the memory hog is gtk
<desrt> (and webkit, and ....)
<xnox> if gnome-software would use less memory i would be fine with it.
<seb128> right, what desrt is saying
<xnox> seb128, no, because infinity fixed glibc yesterday and glibc is irrelevant.
<desrt> the problem is, after the first time you show the UI, there is an awful lot of memory that gets used and never freed
<seb128> we just keep a service which is the full application including all the UI librarires
<desrt> all of our UI stack is made with the assumption that apps exit when they exit
<desrt> so basically, the process that links webkit, gtk, etc. needs to call exit()
<flexiondotorg> Good morning seb128 desrt happyaron hikiko :-)
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<desrt> flexiondotorg: morning :D
<hikiko> hi all :p
<seb128> hey hikiko
<desrt> hikiko: hey :)
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Very well thanks.
<desrt> i think i'll take a note to have a chat with hughsie later today
<seb128> xnox, see the comment from dobey on the glibc bug, I meant that one looks like your issue
<flexiondotorg> Despite staying up too late to tinker with Pi projects :-)
<desrt> this has been something that has been bothering me for a while...
<seb128> xnox, which might be different from whatever glibc issue there was
<seb128> desrt, thanks, let me know how the discussion goes
<seb128> flexiondotorg, late night hacking is fun, next mornings are less right?
<seb128> :-)
<desrt> would be interesting to have a simple activation framework for monitoring system events in a generic way
<desrt> like if you could ask systemd to start your process if /var/apt/whatever got an inotify event, or in response to a particular signal sent to the system dbus
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Yeah, I didn't make the school run this morning.
<seb128> desrt, can't you already do that sort of things with systemd jobs?
<flexiondotorg> And hacking ended up being playing classic arcade games from the 80s :-D
<xnox> desrt, there is .path units in systemd, and thus in user-session systemd can totally spawn / poke things.
<seb128> lol
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney
<desrt> Laney: hey :)
<xnox> note it may not know which session one is in =) or which display to use for popups
<desrt> ya... that's one problem
<Laney> just went to pick up my laptop but was holding a tea and poured it out
<Laney> /o\
<desrt> this user vs. session thing is a drag
<desrt> Laney: floor or laptop?
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney
<seb128> Laney, you didn't poor it on the laptop at least?
<seb128> pour
<flexiondotorg> Poor laptop?
<desrt> xnox: so like, i bet we could use this to replace whatever monitoring the apt backend is doing
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> no
<Laney> other hand
<desrt> .... better than laptop. at least?
<Laney> sofa / floor / me
<desrt> (unless you fancied your hand, but wanted a new laptop...)
<Laney> could be worse
<Laney> gnome-software calls a 'refresh' function on each plugin
<Laney> at an interval
<desrt> ...
<Laney> you should go have this chat in #gnome-software rather than #ubuntu-desktop
<desrt> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> hey davmor2
<flexiondotorg> davmor2, Morning
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Laney Have you got a few minutes to discuss a couple of HiDPI issues raised by System 76?
<seb128> flexiondotorg, sure
<flexiondotorg> I'll get to Unity scale-factor in bit. I'll start with console fonts.
<flexiondotorg> System 76 have tweaked the console fonts in 16.04 to used the Terminus font at FONTSIZE="16x32"
<flexiondotorg> Rather than the Fixed font at FONTSIZE="8x16"
<flexiondotorg> Would it be possible to make Termius at the higher size the default?
<flexiondotorg> Is it possible to retrospectively adjust this in 16.04?
<flexiondotorg> My concern is, this will also affect server.
<flexiondotorg> And may not be desirable.
<seb128> you/they should open a bug about that with the suggested changes and the rational
<seb128> not sure who would be right to comment on the issue but I don't know enough about that to reply without reading/investigating
<flexiondotorg> OK.
<seb128> Gunnar might have an opinion
<flexiondotorg> I'll ask them to file a bug with rationale.
<seb128> thanks
<flexiondotorg> seb128, We chatted earlier about the MR for Unity7 that will set the scale-factor on HiDPI systems.
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~kaihengfeng/unity/set-hidpi-scale-factor/+merge/299380
<flexiondotorg> That has landed in 17.04.
<seb128> right
<flexiondotorg> I'#m going to test it this morning.
<seb128> great
<flexiondotorg> seb128, What concerns do you have about back porting this to 16.04?
<seb128> not much, I was just wondering if unity was the right place to do it where unity-settings-daemon had already code for that which got disabled
<seb128> but the unity scaling is per screen
<seb128> though at the end we only have one value for gtk
<seb128> but if andyrock & Trevinho judged it's right to do it in unity and it works no objection from me
<seb128> so yeah, please test, if that works well let's land that rather than do more work
<flexiondotorg> So I've asked System 76 to test current 17.04 images.
<seb128> great
<Trevinho> seb128, flexiondotorg: hey!
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to do that same on my XPS 15.
<seb128> hey Trevinho :-)
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, o/
<Trevinho> seb128: so, I would have preferred to keep some things inside ups but...
<seb128> usd you mean?
<Trevinho> yeah, sorrry
<Trevinho> but... That's a global option as said
<flexiondotorg> I can see the benefit of having the logic in usd.
<flexiondotorg> For example, OEM first boot doesn't currently auto scale on HiDPI systems.
<Trevinho> and at the same time we probably should have moved all this kind of stuff to usd in the first place... But at this point we accpeted it to be inside unity
<seb128> right need to look at that
<flexiondotorg> But usd is laucnhed via ubiquity-dm
<seb128> usd has code for it and we use it in the greeter
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: that's a different thing I think
<seb128> we should perhaps reverse the logic to be !unity
<andyrock> morning
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: as OEM install isn't using unity, isn't it?
<seb128> hey andyrock
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, correct.
<Laney> only-ubiquity mode does scale though
<flexiondotorg> Ubiquity has it's own display manager and executes usd.
<andyrock> does anyone know how to block spam on freenode?
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> sorry but need to step out for a bit
<seb128> going to read the backlog and comment once I'm back
<flexiondotorg> andyrock, o/
<seb128> (if there anything else needed from me in the discussion)
<flexiondotorg> seb128, OK
<Laney> If usd doesn't set up scaling, how does that work?
<flexiondotorg> Laney, I'm saying OEM first boot doesn't scale.
<flexiondotorg> But if the scale-factor logic were in usd, then OEM first boot would scale.
<Laney> I know
<Laney> I'm asking why it does work for the only-ubiquity mode on live CDs
<flexiondotorg> Yes ^
<flexiondotorg> What I'm going to test.
<Laney> Maybe metacity sets this up itself
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to understand the difference and try to find a solution.
 * desrt gets upset with ld -pie
<flexiondotorg> Laney, so metacity is in ubuntu-live
<Laney> That's right
<flexiondotorg> And in ubiquity-dm metacity will be executed in preference to compiz.
<Laney> Correct
<flexiondotorg> Do you know the history on that?
<Laney> Not really, just that compiz didn't work properly for some reason and metacity was ok
<flexiondotorg> OK, so something to test is if Compiz does work now.
<Laney> you will notice that I did some hidpi fixes in metacity a little while ago
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<Laney> Not sure what's to be gained by trying to change that
<Laney> but if you want to own any resulting problems...
<flexiondotorg> Unity 7 (in Zesty) can set scale-factor when HiDPI is detected.
<Laney> It works in metacity already.
<flexiondotorg> Except is OEM first-boot.
<Laney> Yes, but it works in only-ubiquity
<Laney> so there is no point in ripping it out of there
<Laney> find out *why* it does and then replicate that
<flexiondotorg> Agreed.
<flexiondotorg> But I'm curious to see if executing compiz from ubiquity-dm "does the right thing".
<flexiondotorg> In OEM first-boot with the scale patch applied.
<Laney> If you really want to, then that's up to you
 * Laney needz beanz
<Laney> flexiondotorg: u-s-d does the autocalculation on non-Unity
<flexiondotorg> Laney, OK.
<flexiondotorg> Will test after lunch.
<dobey> seb128, xnox: any luck on the mesa issue?
<xnox> dobey, i know it breaks things
<xnox> dobey, seb128: i want src:mesa to be removed from proposed
<xnox> it is blocking a lot of things
<dobey> yeah, it breaks anything that uses gtk+ at least; i'm sure not everything it breaks has an autopkgtest that hits that issue
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, is ^ a known issue/being worked on?
<dobey> it's blocking us landing a fix for (at least) indicator-keyboard for the u8 snap too
<seb128> well, proper way is to fix the bug
<seb128> not to delete an update that is going to need to be redone/debugged at some point anyway
<dobey> of course
<dobey> i got a stack trace pointing to where it's breaking, thought someone who deals with mesa would be fixing it
<seb128> dobey, that someone is tjaalton and he doesn't seem to be around, doesn't mean others can't step up and try to fix it though
<desrt> hihi
<qengho> hi!
<qengho> Will won't.
<seb128> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  6 15:30:53 2016 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<desrt> it's on seb128 to save us!
<seb128> hey everyone
<desrt> seb128: rollcall helps
<seb128> desrt, I know, was checking email to know who is out ;-)
<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong (out), flexiondotorg, happyaron, hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<Sweet5hark> .
<flexiondotorg> 'elo
<andyrock> hey
 * FJKong wave hello
<seb128> indeed, rollcall works!
<Laney> hi
<seb128> FJKong, hey, didn't you say you were out on tuesday?
<desrt> 'sup
<seb128> k, let's get started
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, hey
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> I'm still working on adding the windows list to the unity8 quicklist
<andyrock> the code is almost there but I'm having issues testing it
<andyrock> coz I can no longer install webbrowser-app
<andyrock> did some reviews also
<andyrock> eow
<seb128> thanks andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, is that using the overlay ppa? I think they had an issue with oxide and a security update overriding it but a silo fixing those
<seb128> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: attente
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> hi seb128
<attente> bug fixes to the mir backend upstream for gtk-4
<attente> also tried debugging a libtool/rpath problem but not much luck there
<attente> filed an RT to fix an issue with the integration tests in the snapcraft jhbuild plugin
<attente> title bars on separate child windows discussion with upstream
<attente> content-hub-glib branch landed in z, so could use someone to review wip/attente/mir-content-hub on git.gnome.org. considering just merging it though...
<andyrock> seb128: do you know which silo?
<seb128> andyrock, no, but maybe it landed since?
<seb128> attente, did you try desrt / robert_ancell / Laney for reviewing the gtk-mir change?
<seb128> one of them might be able to find some review cycles for you?
<attente> i haven't asked anyone yet :)
<seb128> k, well I sort of just did for you :p
<seb128> thanks attente!
<attente> desrt: do you want to try? ^
<seb128> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: desrt
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey.  not a lot to say.  work continues on the proxy.  got some cleanups done vs. last week
<desrt> that's all
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/irRFZIiQ/
<andyrock> seb128: ^^^
<seb128> andyrock, let's move that to #ubuntu-unity
<seb128> thanks desrt
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: dgadomski
<dgadomski> `hey
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> * focusing on #1550983. Looks like the problem is in gtk itself or it's packaging. I would appreciate an opinion on this (last comment in the bug).
<dgadomski> bug #155098 that is :)
<ubot5> bug 155098 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "add grab-merge.sh" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155098
<dgadomski> sorry, bug #1550983
<ubot5> bug 1550983 in virt-manager (Ubuntu) "Fails to start with "Couldn't open libGL.so.1" (missing dependency?)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550983
<dgadomski> that's the one
<dgadomski> eof
<seb128> dgadomski, let's have a look after the meeting
<seb128> dgadomski, thanks
<dgadomski> thanks
<seb128> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<FJKong> bug fixed:
<FJKong> #1575350 #847087 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for GNU Radio
<FJKong> #1634226 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for D-rats
<FJKong> still in progress
<FJKong> #1498972 Change icon to 256x256 version to support HiDPI
<FJKong> #1639863 Firefox and Thunderbird don't appear in the (new) appstream metadata
<FJKong> eof
<seb128> thanks FJKong
<seb128> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: flexiondotorg
<seb128> flexiondotorg, hey
<flexiondotorg> Time appropriate greetings!
<flexiondotorg> Â· Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and update Trello
<flexiondotorg> Â· Completed new joiner induction at BlueFin on Thursday.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Worked on fixes for `source-type: deb` in Snapcraft. Discovered while working with an ISV.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Video conference with System 76 to understand their issues with HiDPI on 16.04. They have started tagging bugs here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=hidpi
<flexiondotorg> Â· Working on some follow up actions as a result of the call with System 76, including how the can complete early testing and QA for the 16.04.2 HWE kernel on their range of computers.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Thanks to andyrock and trevinho for the Unity 7 scale factor merge in Zesty. System 76 are testing.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Snap advocacy video conference with Plone and out reach to many other ISVs and upstreams. Daily standup video conferences now.
<flexiondotorg> ð¬
<seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks!
<seb128> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: happyaron
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<seb128> oh, he sent me notes
<seb128> 1. ibus-table/1.9.1-4
<seb128> 2. libpinyin/1.3.0-3
<seb128> 3. iptraf-ng RC bug fix
<seb128> 4. opencc SRU to yakkety
<seb128> 5. landed n-m in zesty
<seb128> 6. prepared n-m SRU for xenial
<seb128> thanks happyaron ;-)
<seb128> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: hikiko
<seb128> hikiko, hey!
<hikiko> hi
<hikiko> worked on chromium + lowgfx, but mostly on chromium:
<hikiko> * learned how to use ninja, gn and other google stuff,
<hikiko> * started the code in the mir backend,
<hikiko> * I am still studying ozone, the mir client API and the wayland backend: my first "goal" is to be able to draw on a mir surface.
<qengho> So sorry.
<hikiko> oh also spent a several amount of time trying to accelerate the build
<qengho> Also sorry.
<hikiko> lol qengho
<hikiko> eof :)
<seb128> thanks hikiko
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> yo
<Laney> â¢ lame week
<Laney> â¢ mostly worked on a big transition which keeps getting set back, now I'm casting around in #ubuntu-release for help, hard to tell if it's close or not
<Laney> â¢ some random updates: gstreamer 1.10.2, appstream-glib
<Laney> â¢ fixed a g-s 3.22 bug breaking installation of packages
<Laney> ð
<tjaalton> seb128: i'm out until thursday
<seb128> tjaalton, k, enjoy the time off!
<seb128> Laney, sorry I was in middle of other things yesterday and didn't really understand your request and then forgot to get back to you and earlier infinity was active so I though he would do it, remind me what you need after the meeting and I can do it
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Hi!
<qengho> * Building and testing new upstream Cr release. Cr 55.
<qengho> * printf-debugging a crasher.
<qengho> * Refreshed tor snap. Upstream release. Snaps are so nice.
<qengho> EOF
<Laney> seb128: no worry, I listed the request earlier in #ubuntu-release
<seb128> thanks qengho
<Laney> doesn't have to be you all the time
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: seb128
<Laney> thanks for your previous help ;-)
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> â¢ looked at some network-manager issues, including zesty and xenial regressions, talked to people who know about those changes to try to get things moving
<seb128> â¢ triaged a bit nautilus bugs and talked to upstream about some of the issues
<seb128> â¢ reviewed recent launchpad bugs & e.u.c reports
<seb128> â¢ some archive admin work
<seb128> â¢ starting a sponsoring shift
<seb128> â¢ snappy work
<seb128> â tried to build yakkety snaps on launchpad to backport on xenial but hit build issues, wasted some time trying to debug/workaround those, turned out to be a known launchpad bug and not easy to workaround
<seb128> â discussed several issues & howtodothings with Didier
<seb128> â looked at bit more at what kde did with their platform sharing
<seb128> </weekly>
<seb128> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<Sweet5hark> - 5.3 beta1 snap build starts ...
<Sweet5hark> - ... but fails on weird linking issue: missing some harfbuzz/icu symbols, need to investigate
<Sweet5hark> - writer refactoring and cleanup (got 7 patches in, 3 more pending)
<Sweet5hark> - reviewed and merged some patches by others
<Sweet5hark> - TDF: 2017 budgeting
<Sweet5hark> - some team management (travel, events)
<Sweet5hark> - some FOSDEM prep
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<seb128> thanks Sweet5hark
<seb128> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: TheMuso
<seb128> * Had someone comment on bug 1574324 about the latest puse SRU fix for that bug breaking bluetooth for them... *sigh* there had to be some hardware that would be worse with that change wouldn't there. :S Need to look at the log they provided, and go from there. Not going to mark as regression yet, because this fixes things more than it does break things, based on user feedback.
<seb128> * Discussions about input events and accessibility begun, but decided to talk to upstrea accessibility devs first, and based on that conversation, it is something that needs to be written up in a spec, and will likely require accessibility dev involvement in upstrea mprojects to implement it. I've got some questions to run by them, but other than that I will have to look at writing the spec myself, since we are needing it sooner rather than l
<ubot5> bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574324
<seb128> ater.
<seb128> * Migration to the use of espeak-ng in main continues, most of the work being done in Debian, at which point we can sync/merge when everything is ready, and it will be a matter of filing a MIR once everything is built and available in universe... Part of the process has been to separate out as much as possible into separate packages, which brings multiple benefits anyway.
<seb128> * Further testing for bug 1641954, and can reproduce, so will proceed with the SRU in the coming week. THis is only a problem in Xenial, since the fix is in newer versions of pulseaudio.
<ubot5> bug 1641954 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Output switches from HDMI speakers to internal speakers on DPMS off" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1641954
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Investigation of crashes of cups-browsed, probably will need locks due to parallel tasks/threads.
<tkamppeter> - CUPS: Investigated a problem of shutdown with systemd.
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting: Investigated a bug in adding new PPDs and printer entries.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, you sent me a summary by email but seems you are online? should I copy it or...
<seb128> seems you are around
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<tkamppeter> No, it is the same. Thanks.
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, hello
<Trevinho> Â· More work in unity8 indicators pointer/touch interactions
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed a failure in ubuntu settings components tests due to JS date issues
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed unity7 to compile with gtest-1.8
<Trevinho> Â· Landed new unity7 with various fixes
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed libappindicator to use proper realpath for icons and themes in $SNAP
<Trevinho> Â· Various tunings, new tests and cleanups to my snapcraft PRs (now all merged)
<Trevinho> Â· Few tunings to the Remmina snap
<Trevinho> Â· Written a snapcraft ML post to explain how to use app-indicators from $SNAP
<Trevinho> EOF
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks!
<seb128> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: robert_ancell
<seb128> - snapd-glib 1.4 released and SRU'd
<seb128> - Relocation improvements in LightDM
<seb128> - (Away two days)
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: aob
<seb128> other topics anyone?
<seb128> did I forget anybody?
<seb128> k, seems everybody is quiet ;-)
<seb128> should do for this week then
<seb128> let's call it a wrap, thanks everyone
<attente> thanks seb128
<Laney> great meeting
<attente> 5/5
 * Laney gets a tattoo of 2016-12-06
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  6 15:56:01 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-12-06-15.30.moin.txt
<seb128> Laney, k, let me have a look to your earlier requests
<seb128> dgadomski, then I look at your bug
<dgadomski> seb128: great, thank you!
<seb128> Laney, doing the requests in order, gyoto deleted but I let you deal with doing a copy or upload of the old version
<Laney> seb128: ok will do, if you're doing it in order then qgis was first ;-)
<seb128> Laney, right, did that but I had no comment about that one ;-)
<Laney> k, just wanted to make sure it wasn't missed
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, k, I think I got the things you asked for now, let's see at the next round
<Laney> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> andyrock, got things to work without proposed?
<seb128> dgadomski, can you reproduce that libgl issue?
<dgadomski> seb128: yes, easily, my only concern is whether gtk should have an explicit runtime dependency on libGL.so or should it check in runtime before making the mentioned call
<seb128> dgadomski, weird, is that amd64 specific?
<seb128> I'm on i386 but with a pbuilder I don't have libGL.so.1 installed and gtk binaries start without issue
<dgadomski> seb128: the way I was able to reproduce it was to run it remotely (ssh -X) on xenial from a Windows host (cygwin with X)
<dgadomski> from a linux client it worked flawlessly - is it possible that it was due to my local libGL.so?
<seb128> well, started from ssh it has access to the same fs no?
<dgadomski> tbh I'm not sure what happens under the good of gtk with ssh -X
<dgadomski> but installing libgl1-mesa-glx on the remote host fixes it for non-Linux hosts (I was told that it also happens on OS X)
<seb128> k, could be a gtk upstream bug
<seb128> dgadomski, but yeah, that symbol seems to be from libGL so unsure why there is no depends generated
<dgadomski> seb128: there is a decent number of libGL calls inside gdk/x11/gdkglcontext-x11.c so it's really weird that nothing is linked against it
<seb128> dgadomski, libGL is diverted by e.g the nvidia drivers so I don't know if that has to do with it...
<dgadomski> I'll file an upstream gtk bug and see what's their opinion about this
<seb128> it might not be an upstream issue if it's a missing depends
<seb128> you can maybe check if Debian has the same issue and report it there
<dgadomski> seb128: ok, I'll try to reproduce it with Debian, thanks for taking a look
<seb128> dgadomski, yw
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, just you case you didn't know you got a follow up on bug #1629611 including debug log
<ubot5> bug 1629611 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "dns server priority broken" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629611
<seb128> Laney, update_excuses refreshed but unsure what bits you are watching? gdal is still blocked due to hdf being not considered on failing tests
<Laney> not looking at tests yet
<Laney> the queue is mad
<seb128> k
<Laney> been working from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/zesty/update_output_notest.txt
<seb128> k
<Laney> although the generated hint misses some packages
<Laney> so you have to start the hint tester and add those
<seb128> the situation is too complex for me to understand
<Laney> glewmx and r-base
<seb128> but let me know if you need more pocking at things
<Laney> yeah it's great!
<Laney> will do, thanks
<seb128> yw
<Laney> gyoto didn't come up yet
<Laney> see how it is tomorrow
 * Laney wants to move autopkgtest to lxd where possible (not isolation-machine)
<Laney> check armhf http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running
<Laney> way faster
<Laney> goodnight!
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers see you tomorrow
<attente> robert_ancell: hi! not sure if you saw the meeting notes, but i'm looking for a reviewer for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775732. do you think you'd be able to do review it? if not i might ask Lan3y or Tr3vinho
<ubot5> Gnome bug 775732 in Backend: Mir "mir: clipboard support missing" [Normal,New]
<robert_ancell> attente, sure, I can review
<attente> robert_ancell: great, thanks!
<robert_ancell> attente, you can call g_hash_table_new_full with an empty hash/equal func?
<attente> robert_ancell: i think so
 * attente checks
<robert_ancell> attente, we should update the glib docs
<robert_ancell> I see other GTK+ code does it
<attente> yeah, no hash function means g_direct_hash, and no equal func means literal ==
<attente> robert_ancell: i have those patches on the branch wip/attente/mir-content-hub, which is pre-gtk-4
<attente> so you can test it against gedit, or gtk3-demo
<attente> you just need libcontent-hub-glib-dev
<robert_ancell> attente, reviewed
<attente> robert_ancell: thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-07
<hikiko> Hi
<RAOF> Oh, duplicity. I would prefer it if you didn't use 5GiB RSS.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<desrt> morning, seb128
<seb128> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> happy wednesday
<desrt> sleepy :p
<seb128> to you too!
<pitti> buenos dÃ­as amigos!
<desrt> hi pitti :)
<seb128> hey pitti, enjoying Spain?
<pitti> seb128: si! we had been walking through Sevilla for > 4 hours yesterday evening
<pitti> lovely city
<desrt> big buildings :)
<seb128> nice
<seb128> did you go all the way to Barcelone and back?
<seb128> the city center is not that big ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it is if you have to solve puzzles and wander around in circles a lot :)
<seb128> pitti, was it actual puzzles like a team game? or just walking around?
<pitti> seb128: no, actual puzzles, a scavenger hunt
<willcooke> good morning seb128 pitti
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> hey willcooke, how was shopping day?
<xnox> seb128, it was anything but nice
<seb128> xnox, you don't like walking much? ;-)
<willcooke> it was bearable.  We did Ikea as well.  So the full house of shopping.
<seb128> lol
<seb128> had a nice lunch in the middle?
<xnox> seb128, the hints were crap, and the last task was to find 15 tiny 2cm x 2cm tokens glued to inside of window seals, under the menus and generally impossible to find and boring.
<willcooke> Yes!  We went to Waggamama
<Laney> guten morgen
<xnox> seb128, it started off as fun, and then quickly degraded into boredom.
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> willcooke, nice :-)
<seb128> xnox, I see, at least it's not freezing in Sevilla ;-)
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> hey davmor2
<seb128> how are you today?
<davmor2> seb128: Good thanks, you?
<seb128> davmor2, I'm good thanks!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> good
<Laney> napped and then went to the pub quiz ;-)
<Laney> we got 26/30
<Laney> winners got 28.5 :|
<seb128> quite some comptetition!
<davmor2> Laney: knowledge whores that's what they were ;)
<Laney> tattooed wikipedia under their eyelids
<Laney> davmor2: one question was basically "what's the name of that advertising company that plays that catchy tune before films at the cinema?"
<Laney> I kept going "BRADFORD AND BINGLEY... no wait that's a bank :("
<Laney> eventually someone remembered it
<seb128> what was it?
<seb128> or is it
<davmor2> Laney: Hanna and Barbara spelt wrong but you know who I mean
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WQrLuaMBMw
<Laney> this thing
<davmor2> Laney: pearl and dean that's it I knew the music, the others were the cartoon people behind the flintstones
<davmor2> I was close :)
<Laney> davmor2: good effort, you can stay
<davmor2> Laney: man now I've had to watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-KDZDNnR9A
<Laney> ah, the creepy milk tray stalker
<davmor2> Laney: the second best Coke advert ever too and cinzano with Joan and Leonard
<xnox> tedg, unity-scope-click doesn't really depend on click
<xnox> as i don't have any clicks installed, and it shows things from debs
<xnox> however does it use ubuntu-app-launch to launch legacy apps?
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<flexiondotorg> Sorry for the late start.
<flexiondotorg> Annual watch the children wear tea towels on their heads day here :-)
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<xnox> seb128, Laney, pitti - is /usr/lib/gnome-session/run-systemd-session only run in systemd-only sessions? and sessions that have upstart, never execute that thing?
<pitti> xnox: correct
<xnox> yeah
<pitti> xnox: more precisely, whatever the Exec= from the session .desktop says
<pitti> (except that upstart completely overrides this)
<xnox> pitti, so i had stale UPSTART_SESSION imported into user systemd session, thus i think run-systemd-session should be cleaning that up.
<xnox> environment that is
<pitti> ah, good point
<FJKong> hi desktop, I met a bug, after resume from suspend, when right click, it will be black area by pop up menu.
<FJKong> oh not just right click all window and menu will be like this
<FJKong> https://postimg.org/image/izo0e7r7t/
<seb128> hey FJKong
<FJKong> seb128: hey
<seb128> FJKong, weird, no idea what that could be, does it do every time? only in gtk applications?
<seb128> FJKong, what ubuntu serie is that?
<FJKong> seb128: I am using yakkety, upgrade from previous version, not every time , It will shown after some times of suspend
<FJKong> not only in gtk app
<FJKong> it seems all window like this
<FJKong> I guess this is related with display mamager things
<seb128> could be a video driver issue
<FJKong> maybe, I use nvidia video card
<seb128> FJKong, nvidia binary drivers or nouveau?
<FJKong> seb128: I use nvidia binary drivers
<seb128> FJKong, try maybe with nouveau if you get the same issue
<muhaha> muhahaha
<willcooke> k
<seb128> right
<seb128> k, time for some exercice
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<willcooke> l8r seb128
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<seb128> bye willcooke
<flexiondotorg> Night seb128
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-08
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Buenos dÃ­as!
<desrt> moin!
<desrt> 'sup, pitti + hikiko?
<hikiko> hi desrt
<desrt> happy thursday :)
<hikiko> happy thursday :)
 * desrt medicates herself
<desrt> mmm.  coffee.
<hikiko> lol
<pitti> hey hey desrt!
<pitti> hello hikiko
<hikiko> hi pitti
<hikiko> happy thursday
<desrt> pitti: why are you in spain?
<seb128> hey desrt hikiko pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<desrt> hey seb :)
<hikiko> hi seb128
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, bdmurray pointed you https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/3f5546617f0b197529d734bee9ae770fb485b92d as being reported only against the yakkety SRU version, could you check if you think that might be a regression?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Laney> HO BOY
<Laney> it's dark today
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> you got confused, it's 3am, go back to bed :p
<Laney> what up seb128 OG
<Laney> oh sounds good
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, 'sup seb128
<pitti> err, Laney
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's not sunny here either today
<seb128> but less cold, which was nice for tennis yesterday
<Laney> not just not sunny
 * pitti appreciates the sun outside and puts on a smug face
<Laney> there must be a lot of cloud
<Laney> glooooooooooomy
<tjaalton> seb128: so the mesa/gtk+ thing, was there a way to trigger it?
<Laney> but indeed it's like 12Â°
<Laney> hey pitti!
<Laney> are you having fun at the sprint?
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, xnox gets it building ubiquity apparently, he might be able to provide you a smaller testcase
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<seb128> hey davmor2 flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> o/ seb128 davidcalle Laney
<seb128> wrong d<tab> ;-)
<flexiondotorg> Oops, davmor2 I mean. But hello to David too :-)
 * Laney nods flexiondotorg 
<Laney> how's life?
<Laney> tjaalton: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-zesty/zesty/amd64/g/gtk+3.0/20161201_093323_fa84e@/log.gz has a segfault, is that it?
<tjaalton> Laney: guess so
<Laney> then running gtk's autopkgtest with the -proposed mesa seems good
<xnox> tjaalton, rebuild ubiquity is good enough test, and is relatively quick.
<davidcalle> @flexiondotorg o/
<meetingology> davidcalle: Error: "flexiondotorg" is not a valid command.
 * davidcalle blames telegram
<xnox> ./debian/rules tests
<xnox> tjaalton, ^ if you want to run it interactively.
<tjaalton> xnox, Laney: ok, I'll do that
<seb128> tjaalton, just a guess but maybe simply try to start something gtkish under xfvb
<tjaalton> right
<tjaalton> xvfb-run gnome-terminal fails
<tjaalton> so that's easy enough
<tjaalton> to repro
<willcooke> night TheMuso
<willcooke> and morning all
<flexiondotorg> Morning willcooke
<Laney>     * amd64: python-sfepy, python-tables, python-tables-dbg, python-tables-lib, python3-tables, python3-tables-dbg, python3-tables-lib, spykeviewer, vitables
<Laney> so close
<Laney> hi willcooke
<Laney> SUCCESS (848/0)
<ricotz> morning desktopers
<seb128> Laney, congrats!
<seb128> hey ricotz
<Laney> seb128: that is ignoring tests, still need to look at those
<Sweet5hark> seb128: whoops, missed that.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hmm, curious: from the stats it didnt happen before, so it might be a regression ... or the update changed the stacktrace enough to make it appear as a "different" issue.
<Sweet5hark> even more curious it has RecoveryUI::impl_doEmergencySave in the stacktrace, that is: this is during the "libreoffice crashed, do you want to recover you files" dialog.
<Laney> the crash dialog is on fire, do you want to put it out and try to crash again?
<muktupavels> laney, pitti: is 1637758 really fixed? I have same bug again...
<Laney> Same bug or same symptoms?
<Laney> loginctl shows a lightdm session staying open?
<muktupavels> session stays open
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> don't know why it would have stopped working
<Laney> what did you update?
<muktupavels> don't know, but it is fully updated zesty without ppas. also i dont use proposed.
<muktupavels> restarted at least 3 times
<Laney> check the logs?
<muktupavels> what logs?
<muktupavels> Also I probably did not restart at least for week so there probably was many updates.
<muktupavels> systemd is 232-7, lightdm is 1.21.1-0ubuntu2
<Laney> Have you tried a virtual machine to see if it happens in there?
<muktupavels> I think that vm works, but will check now.
<Laney> don't see it on my fully updated systems
<muktupavels> vm works fine
<Laney> no idea atm, sorry
<muktupavels> I reinstalled lightdm, will try to reboot
<muktupavels> still same problem :(
<pitti> hm, WFM too, no immediate idea
<om26er> pitti: Hi! Is there a way to read session environment variables like XDG_SESSION_TYPE in a autopkgtest ?
<pitti> om26er: I'm not sure what you mean?
<om26er> pitti: autopilot relies on XDG_SESSION_TYPE to check which session its running under. So when I run an autopilot test through autopkgtest, it fails as apparently that env variable is not available.
<pitti> om26er: right, it's set by lightdm, and nothing logs in via lightdm there
<pitti> om26er: your test can of course make up some value
<pitti> om26er: I suppose you run them through Xvfb, so "x11" sounds right
<om26er> pitti: in this case its run directly on a touch device, so 'mir'
<muktupavels> pitti, laney: lightdm.log show that login1_service_terminate_session was called only for my second seat - seat1. It is not called for seat0 in my case.
<muktupavels> Activating ConsoleKit session c1; Activating login1 session c2; what? why it thinks that seat0 is consolekit session?
<muktupavels> WARNING: Session pid=1529: Error reading from session: Interrupted system call
<muktupavels> pitti,laney: any idea why lightdm fails to get login1_session_id?
<pitti> muktupavels: sorry, not out of my head; I have zero experience/knowledge about multi-seat I'm afraid
<muktupavels> pitti: it might not be related to multi-seat. it looks like first season c1 fails to get login1_session_id
<muktupavels> it is null and login1_service_terminate_session is not called
<muktupavels> pitti, laney: for first session login1_session_id is null, but console_kit_cookie is set to c1. all other sessions created has login1_session_id set to c2, c3 and c4. console_kit_cookie for these sessions are null.
<Laney> muktupavels: if you're debugging, I suggest you move backwards until you find out why that happens
<muktupavels> ?
<Laney> "?"?
<muktupavels> what do you think with moving backwards?
<Laney> if you found out that a variable is null when it shouldn't be, go and find out where that comes from
<muktupavels> my problem is that for some reason lightdm fails to get session id and because of that I am affected with that bug again.
<Laney> and then find out why that bit doesn't work
<Laney> etc, until you find the bug
<muktupavels> n_read = read (session->priv->from_child_output, buf, count);
<muktupavels> that fails no idea what to do next
<muktupavels> will reboot again
<hikiko> lol
<hikiko> apparently I am not for lunch 5hrs
<hikiko> I forgot to change my status again :/
<hikiko> :p
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/init-system-helpers/+bug/1642966
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1642966 in systemd (Ubuntu) "package cups-daemon 2.1.3-4 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed]
 * flexiondotorg just popping out for an hour of so. Back later...
<willcooke> pitti - can you advise on who a suitable systemd expert is who might be able to help tkamppeter get moving on that ^
<willcooke> that = bug, not flexiondotorg popping out :)
<muktupavels> pitti, laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/lightdm/retry-interrupted-read/+merge/312845
<Laney> muktupavels: lightdm turns off SA_RESTART?
<Laney> interesting that it's so reproducible for you
<Laney> will let robert_ancell review
<muktupavels> I don't know, but with that patch now my session works
<muktupavels> first reboot that worked today.
<Laney> interesting
<Laney> it's a difficult area
<Laney> well done for finding it
<muktupavels> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm/trunk/revision/2406
<muktupavels> any chance that this has something to do with my problem?
<Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm/trunk/view/head:/src/process.c#L460
<Laney> I would guess that it's this bit
<xnox> tjaalton, so, from that mesa bug, are you gonna upload the patch that is proposed on that upstream bug tracker?
<Laney> if that had SA_RESTART too it would restart the read() instead of giving EINTR
<xnox> imho it's worth uploading that botch into zesty
<Laney> that's my hunch --- just from reading the code / guessing
<Laney> retrying on EINTR in this case is valid
<Laney> assuming that putting the flag there is wrong
<Laney> you've got something that can be reviewed now anyway
<tjaalton> xnox: libepoxy uploaded already
<xnox> tjaalton, cool!
<tjaalton> 3h ago, tests are slow it seems
<Laney> k, going to sing some christmas carols
<Laney> o/
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<willcooke> dinner time, night all
<muktupavels> robert_ancell: https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/lightdm/retry-interrupted-read/+merge/312845
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, did you think pittis suggestion was better?
<muktupavels> I don't know.
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, I don't know either. I was just going to trust pitti on this one :)
<muktupavels> is there any reason why SA_RESTART was not used when that code was written?
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, because I don't know exactly what it does
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, did you see this code breaking or is this just precautionary?
<muktupavels> For some reason read is interruped for me every time i start pc. because of that login1_session_id is NULL.
<robert_ancell> ah
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, is there a bug report to link it to?
<muktupavels> and because that lightdm session is not terminated fully
<muktupavels> I think no.
<muktupavels> because of that 1637758 bug still affects me.
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, if you could try the fix in process.c you suggested and that works, I'm happy to land it
<muktupavels> robert_ancell: so you preffer to use SA_RESTART? do you need new/updated merge proposal or you will just push that yourself.
<muktupavels> ok, will test that first
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, If you can make the MP that would be great. Since I haven't reproduced it here it would be better if you can say it works.
 * robert_ancell hates Unix signals...
<robert_ancell> RAOF, are you familiar with xkbcomp at all?
<muktupavels> robert_ancell: seems to work, branch updated.
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, thanks
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, can you link to that bug so we can SRU it?
<muktupavels> what bug?
<muktupavels> or you want that I create new bug for this?
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, if there's not one please create one, yes
<muktupavels> robert_ancell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1648637
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1648637 in Light Display Manager "handle interruped read and write calls" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-09
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Â¡Buenos dÃ­as amigos!
<seb128> lut pitti
<seb128> happy friday!
<seb128> or rather hola! pitti ;-)
<pitti> what is this Linux thing anyway
 * pitti â victim of pitti goodbye party last night
<flocculant> pitti: lol - bit delicate this morning?
<pitti> I blame the tap water!
<pitti> (it's clearly not the fault of Steve's gin, Stephan's mead, the restaurant's/hotel bar's Sangria and beer and schnaps)
<seb128> wooot, sounds like quite some party
<seb128> you still managed to get up this morning? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: under protest :)
<seb128> haha
<flocculant> \o/
<seb128> hey flocculant
<flocculant> hi seb128
<flocculant> I'm still the inveterate xubuntu lurker :D
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> happy friday!
<seb128> how are you?
<willcooke> ready for the weekend :)
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> yo
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> hey Laney davmor2, happy friday!
<Laney> hey seb128 and davmor2
<Laney> happy friday to youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<Laney> how are you?
<davmor2> Happy Friday too seb128 and Laney
<seb128> Laney, good, I had to go for some errands yesterday and stopped a bit ealier so had an early start this morning, got out of bed at 7am ... it was still night outside and cold, brrr! It's better now that it's day time and that I had some coffee ;-)
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> looks like we missed quite some party in Spain
 * seb128 would have liked to get drunk with pitti
<pitti> good morning Laney and davmor2!
<pitti> hey willcooke too!
<davmor2> morning pitti happy Friday
<pitti> willcooke: wrt. your question from yesterday: xnox knows quite a bit about systemd and (I think) understands the debhelper bits too
<willcooke> thanks pitti
<Laney> seb128: eww, sorry that this happened to you ;-)
<Laney> we went to a christmas thing, starting to slightly feel like it's holiday time now
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> sitting in a darkened room?
<xnox> willcooke, what's the question?
<pitti> Laney: head is clearing up slowly, the breakfast tee is kicking in :)
<seb128> Laney, nice, was feeling more winter a week ago here, when it was blue sky and cold
<seb128> we are back to ~10Â°C and wet
<Laney> yeah same
<pitti> Laney: we may already have talked about it, but if so then sorry, I forgot:
<Laney> they had the 'nottingham night market' on in town too last night
 * Laney found the buddhist centre
<Laney> and got fed a cookie by the nice buddhist man
<Laney> funny how there's still hidden stuff
<Laney> pitti: *anticipation*
<pitti> Laney: do you want to work on bug 1647948 as an "exercise", or should I work on this on my last two days? (probably just a few hours)
<ubot5> bug 1647948 in britney "Better prioritization for packages with lots of tests" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647948
<Laney> pitti: I can if you want, but probably not before the holidays now (finishing Tuesday)
<Laney> so as you prefer
<pitti> Laney: Tuesday is the best day!
<pitti> (me too)
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> we are clearly people that don't take enough time off :P
<pitti> Laney: it's really simple on the autopkgtest-cloud side (just listen to a new queue), the bigger work is actually in britney; so I'll just do it
<Laney> pitti: I want to work on lxdifying the remaining arches too
<Laney> do you have an idea about how to get the list of restrictions?
<Laney> I mean you could just try to run everything in lxd and have a fallback to ssh if tests are skipped because of isolation-machine
<pitti> Laney: the usual approach for similar situations (XS-Testsuite:, Testsuite-Triggers) was to expose that information in Sources.gz
<Laney> but it would be better to not try it in the first place
<Laney> meh
<pitti> right, IKWYM
<pitti> ideally britney would know right away and put it into -machine and -container queues
<Laney> but neither britney nor the worker actually know this ATM
<flexiondotorg> Good morning Laney pitti seb128 willcooke davmor2 hikiko
<Laney> could have the worker download the source and look inside
<Laney> :/
<Laney> hey flexiondotorg
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> Laney: quite expensive (linux, libo, glibc, etc.), so if it does that I suggest to only download the debian.{diff.gz,tar.gz} and pry it out from that
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> there's an apt source --only-somethingorother I Think
<Laney> --diff-only
<pitti> Laney: can't be apt, unless britney grows a chroot of some kind
<pitti> Laney: we've been through that several times, and so far we always ended up with "meh, let's add it to Sources.gz"
<pitti> Laney: we could also have a cronjob which regularly scans the indexes and exports the package -> isolation mapping to some file
<Laney> right, all the downloading happens in the target currently
<Laney> pitti: ok, the last option I thought of was an autopkgtest --fail-if-i-cant-run-all-tests thing that fails fast if some tests would be skipped because of a restriction
<Laney> which would be an optimisation on top of run in lxd -> fail -> run in a real cloud instance
<pitti> Laney: right, and then check which tests got SKIPed and only run those (--test-name) in qemu?
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg!
<pitti> Laney: but actually, we don't have all that many tests that require qemu; unfortunately one of it is linux :)
<pitti> Laney: but doing no-change rebuilds of those packages (after changing dpkg-source to export the isolation bit) wouldn't actually be entirely unreasonable
<pitti> except that it first needs design, discussion with dpkg@, and landing this
<Laney> is Guillem ok with doing that kind of thing in general?
<pitti> Laney: he was fine with Testsuite: and Testsuite-Triggers: and using Testsuite: for the autodep8 stuff, so yes
<pitti> and this is useful in Debian as well -- even though we currently only have lxc runners, we eventually might get qemu or nova there too
<Laney> nod
<pitti> so this is a "clean/longer-term solution" vs. "OMGwantitnow", but I don't suppose it's actually that urgent
<Laney> It would help with the queue during glibc uploads
<pitti> for sure, yes
<Laney> Alrighty, that's another thing for the new year then
<Laney> thanks for the advice :-)
 * Laney is a sad act who tail -fs britney logs
<xnox> i'm wondering who i can talk from mir team
<xnox> about the gtest stuff
<xnox> and how that got solved
<Laney> MIR or Mir?
<pitti> this is desktop, so Mir?
<anpok_> xnox: by fixing the cmake scripts for gtest/gmock.. which should be part of the 0.25 silo
<anpok_> which is still blocked by non working qtmir mps
<xnox> anpok_, are there commits i can look at? cause i need to fix the same i think in ubuntu-app-launch
<xnox> comapt with 0.18 googletest stuff
<anpok_> https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity-system-compositor/gmock-fix/+merge/312498
<xnox> anpok_, cool thank you. I'm currently getting complaints from cmake that i am somehow trying to add gtest target when a gtest target already exists. or some such nonesence at the moment.
<anpok_> I remeber seeing that..
<anpok_> but it all disappeared with the cumulative fixes inside http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/0.25/revision/3819 .. and cleaning the build dir
<xnox> tedg, can you explain to me what unity-greeter-session-broadcast is and why it's a dbus signal, and why can the thing that emit the signal not just call a url-dispatcher dbus method direct?
<xnox> also note that in the systemd session world, there is only one systemd user session per user.
<xnox> hence the same user session is pretty much live from boot till shutdown
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Morning.
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, If this example snapcraft.yaml still complete given your recent work on fixing appindicators?
<flexiondotorg> s/If/Is/
<Laney> final: acoustid-fingerprinter,adios,alfa,aoflagger,astrometry.net,avogadro,ball,baloo-kf5,blasr,blender,bullet,calligra,casacore,ccfits,cdo,cegui-mk2,cfitsio,cgal,cgsi-gsoap,chealpix,chemps2,choreonoid,chromaprint,clementine,colobot,condor,cpl,cpl-plugin-amber,cpl-plugin-giraf,cpl-plugin-uves,cpl-plugin-vimos,cpl-plugin-visir,cpl-plugin-xshoo,crrcsim,cyphesis-cpp,dans-gdal-scripts,darkradiant,davix,dolfin,double-conversion,dreamchess,endless ...
<Laney> ... -sky,fast5,ffmpeg,field3d,fiona,fitscut,fitspng,fitsverify,freefem++,freeorion,frogatto,ftools-fv,gambas3,gazebo,gdal,gem,geos,gimp-normalmap,gimp-plugin-registry,github-backup,glew,glewmx,gnash,gnuastro,gnudatalanguage,gource,gpx2shp,grads,grass,grib-api,gridsite,gsoap,gst-libav1.0,gst-plugins-bad1.0,gst-plugins-good1.0,gst-rtsp-server1.0,gstreamer-editing-services1.0,gstreamer-vaapi,gyoto,h5py,h5utils,handbrake,haskell-bytestring-conve ...
<Laney> ... rsion,haskell-double-conversion,haskell-github,haskell-http-link-header,haskell-servant,haskell-servant-client,haskell-servant-server,hdf-eos5,hdf5,healpix-cxx,hkl,hugin,imagevis3d,indi-apogee,indi-sbig,info-beamer,insighttoolkit4,ismrmrd,jhdf,k3d,kfilemetadata-kf5,kicad,kid3,kido,kst,kstars,labplot,lcgdm,libastro-fits-cfitsio-perl,libcgns,libcitygml,libdap,libgdal-grass,libgeo-proj4-perl,libgeotiff-dfsg,libgltf,libgpiv,libgroove,libindi ...
<Laney> ... ,liblas,liblivemedia,libmatio,libminc,libmstoolkit,libnova,libpdl-io-hdf5-perl,libquicktime,libreoffice,libvigraimpex,libvpx,lightspark,linphone,logstalgia,luminance-hdr,magics++,mapnik,mapserver,mathgl,med-fichier,meep,meep-lam4,meep-mpi-default,meep-mpich2,meep-openmpi,megaglest,merkaartor,meshlab,mia,minieigen,mixxx,moc,montage,mpb,munipack,mupen64plus-video-z64,mygui,mysql-workbench,mythtv,nanopolish,ncbi-vdb,ncl,netcdf,nexus,node-sr ...
<Laney> ... s,octave,octave-communications,octave-mapping,ogdi-dfsg,openclonk,opencsg,openctm,opengm,openimageio,openmsx,openmsx-catapult,openmw,openorienteering-mapper,openscad,openscenegraph,openscenegraph-3.4,openvdb,osgearth,osm2pgsql,osmcoastline,ossim,otb,paraview,pbseqlib,pdal,pdl,pgrouting,phlipple,pktools,postgis,pprepair,prepair,proj,projectm,purify,pyacoustid,pyfits,pymol,pytables,python-astropy,python-casacore/armhf,python-fitsio,python- ...
<Laney> ... pdal,python-pyproj,pyxplot,qgis,qlandkartegt,qmapshack,qtdeclarative-opensource-src,qutemol,qxmpp,r-cran-hdf5,rasterio,rawtran,rbdoom3bfg,renpy,rheolef,ring,rlvm,rss-glx,ruby-hdfeos5,saga,scilab,scorched3d,seer,sfcgal,shapelib,shogun,silo-llnl,siril,skycat,slcfitsio,slop,sludge,sofa-framework,solvespace,sosi2osm,spatialite,spatialite-gui,spring,srm-ifce,stimfit,sumo,supertux,survex,tcl-fitstcl,therion,thuban,trigger-rally,trilinos,tulip, ...
<Laney> ... ufo-filters,vips,virtualbox,vlc,voms,vtk6,warzone2100,wcslib,widelands,witty,wsclean,x265,xastir,xdmf,xine-lib-1.2,xjadeo,xpra,yade,yorick-av,yorick-hdf5,zygrib
<Laney> start: 173+0: a-26:a-20:a-20:i-24:p-27:p-20:s-36
<Laney>  orig: 173+0: a-26:a-20:a-20:i-24:p-27:p-20:s-36
<Laney>   end: 173+0: a-26:a-20:a-20:i-24:p-27:p-20:s-36
<Laney> SUCCESS (341/0)
 * Laney melts
 * seb128 introduces Laney to pastebin
<Laney> no
<Laney> it would have been lame to pastebin that
<seb128> though I guess that much work was worth some spamming of the channel
<seb128> does it include autpkg this time?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> skipped a lot of things though
<seb128> Laney, congrats, well done ;-)
<Laney> after running them locally
<Laney> queue is stupid
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> good that got it done
<seb128> you can relax a bit now :-)
 * Laney is watching for britney to actually copy them
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: hey
<Trevinho> _fortis: mh, which snapcraft.yaml? :o
<Trevinho> err flexiondotorg ^
<seb128> good morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> hey seb128
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, This one https://github.com/3v1n0/electron-quick-start-snap
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: mh, no it misses the indicator-gtk2 (i think) part, but I didn't test that component there
<flexiondotorg> OK, thanks.
<tedg> xnox: It is basically a dbus system bus mirror to go between the greeter and the user session
<tedg> xnox: So the greeter posts a message to the system service which reflects it as a signal that the user sessions can see
<tedg> xnox: This enables things like click on the camera icon on the greeter, but the greeter asks for a password, but once unlocked the camera is running.
<seb128> k, that's going to do for this week
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers!
<Laney> quality work seb128!
<seb128> Laney, you as well, you should have called it a week after that transition was done, no point starting something new on a friday evening!
<Laney> I broke the autopkgtest queues after that
 * Laney hides
<seb128> that's why you shouldn't not do production changes on a friday :p
<seb128> hope you sort it out and can call it a week as well
<seb128> have fun desktopers in any case, see you next week!
<Laney> hehe
<Laney> I'll see if I can, otherwise will requeue all the stuff on monday
<Laney> happy weekend too o/
<willcooke> righty ho, night all have a good one
<flexiondotorg> Night desktopers
 * Laney has teleported to Buxton
<jamesc> I am a developer with a laptop that is touch screen using ubuntu. Where do I start if I wanted to add functionality like scrolling down a webpage. The touch aspect behaves like a mouse currently. Which is ok for starters. But obviously it be better if one could put their finger on the webpage and scroll
<jamesc> Hi I have  a lenovo touch yoga 700. The screen is touch enabled. How do I start developing with the api to say disable the keyboard when in touch mode?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-10
<rogueomega7> so why is it that only ubuntu uses unity desktop?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-12-11
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> jbicha, hi
<jbicha> could you subscribe desktop-bugs to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-autoar/
<robert_ancell> jbicha, done
<jbicha> thank you
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-04
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hi, I don't know if you're dealing with gdm much, but if you are, I stumbled across LP: #1736046 this weekend
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1736046 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "No sound indicator when login screen is ready" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736046
<robert_ancell> jbicha: that's probably more related to GNOME Shell. I'm only really looking at the GDM daemon.
<bujeremy> Hiya - I have all the available browsers installed and cannot actually use flash with Brave ubuntu browser - guess I thought this was the best place to ask, although not sure how to see my website ?
<bujeremy> https://imgur.com/B4W6BOj
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> morning all
<awayney> this thing work??????????????????????????
<Laney> hi!
<willcooke> hey Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> where's everybody else?
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> anything broken?
 * Laney didn't open email ALL week
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Yeah, evething is ticking along
<Laney> grand
<Laney> woh
<Laney> update-manager just popped up, stole focus and the enter I was pressing in mutt went to it
<Laney> so now I'm getting updates
<Laney> great!
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke, Laney (welcome back!)
<Laney> hey oSoMoN
 * Laney emerges from under email
<Laney> you good?
<oSoMoN> I'm good
<oSoMoN> had a fun week-end in the mountains, first contact with real snow for my daughter
<Laney> ah man
<Laney> skiing?
<Laney> well I'm guessing she didn't do that :P
<oSoMoN> she wanted to try, but she got put off when trying ski shoes
<oSoMoN> so we went for a sledge instead
 * Laney would be ok with sledging
<popey> willcooke: suggested I try the new unity7 stuff in proposed. I did that and now my display is messed up. I can't set 3 monitors anymore.
<popey> If I use the display applet thing it gives an error about "failed to apply configuration: %s"
<popey> "gdbus error: org.gtkgdbus.unmappedgerror.quark.gsd_2drr_2derror_2dquark.code2: could not set the configuration for crtc 444"
<popey> if I use the nvidia settings, it complains about "Failed to set metamode"
<popey> :(
<popey> Trevinho: ^
<popey> looks like I managed to lose the HWE stack :S
<willcooke> popey, interesting, I too think that there might be a bug in the settings code now
<willcooke> sorry for the bad advice :)
<Laney> hey at least that's feedback on the SRU :-)
<willcooke> Laney, ack, I want to speak to Trevinho first and work out where the actual problem might be, I'll catch up with him today and then feedback later on
<Laney> nod
<popey> willcooke: not sure it's the unity7 stuff, but could be kernel or nvidia, not entirely sure. Have purged all of proposed for now
<willcooke> popey, ack
<Trevinho> popey: you only updated unity from proposed?
<Trevinho> As I don't think anything touched that code
<popey> Trevinho: no, i updated everything
<Trevinho> popey: can you please get proposed and update only unity, compiz and nux?
<popey> Trevinho: i don't think it's a unity issue, looks like an nvidia / xorg / hwe issue
<Trevinho> popey: so it looks like to me too
<Trevinho> but, just to confirm
<popey> Trevinho: i will try, but tbh this is my main machine and I don't want to bork it ;)
<Trevinho> morning guys, by the way :)
<Trevinho> popey: no, you won't... at least that's not what it should happen :)
<Trevinho> Laney or kenvandine if here, could you please republish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841  (I removed the neko part from the SRU)?
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Laney> what happened to the last one?
<Trevinho> hey Laney, enjoying the xmas atrmosphere? :)
<Trevinho> Laney: I wrongly cherry-picked a commit that wasn't supposed to be SRUed, so I deleted it
<Laney> it's chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiistmasssssssssss
<Laney> but there's one in proposed already?
<Laney> you want to replace that?
<Laney> oh right, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1680927
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1680927 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Neko mode in Unity is not working anymore since 14.04" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<Laney> #fun #destroyed
<willcooke> my fault, sorry gang :)
<jbicha> willcooke: I helped demote mono and cvs to universe this weekend
<jbicha> I figured if we didn't need svn in main, we didn't need cvs either
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, when was the chromium in stable last rebuilt?
 * kenvandine is wondering if it has the changes in the helpers
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, it won't start for popey with nvidia
<popey> Hello again :)
<kenvandine> hey popey
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, he sees the same issue with edge
<kenvandine> just an empty window
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, no it wasn't rebuilt after the recent changes in the helpers
<kenvandine> so that shouldn't be related
<popey> the version in stable was built on 16th Nov
<popey> I'm on snapd 2.29.4
<kenvandine> i'm on 2.29.3
<jbicha> ricotz: could you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/thunderbird/install-emoji-font/+merge/334068
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/thunderbird/update-dependencies/+merge/334654
<jbicha> maybe you need to make a thunderbird.bionic branch?
<willcooke> night all
<popey> kenvandine: had a pm from someone who has the same issue with chromium but on solus
<popey> have asked them to post to the forum
<kenvandine> popey, THX
<kenvandine> popey, sorry for yelling :)
<popey> IT'S FINE!
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> popey, does quadrapassel work for you?
<popey> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-chromium-snap/1714/48?u=popey
<popey> ^
<kenvandine> at one point when i had issues with nvidia, quadrapassel was affected
<popey> yes, quadrapassel works on nvidia
<popey> well, that's the next hour of my life sorted, thanks kenvandine :0
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> popey, you're welcome
<popey> dammit
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ZgWL03Ss/
<kenvandine> now you're doomed
<popey> kenvandine: for robert when he wakes... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1736232
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1736232 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "GNOME Software shows U1 login for snaps" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> popey: I didn't think that was backported to xenial yet ??
<kenvandine> i thought it was
<kenvandine> question is... which package was it
<jbicha> popey: ok I can confirm the bug on xenial
<kenvandine> i don't think it was actually in gnome-software
<popey> well, it may be in snapd-glib I guess?
<kenvandine> that's what i'm thinking
<popey> It _needs_ to be backported to xenial. given how many more (10x +) people are on LTS than non-LTS
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> i seemed to recall it was in the SRU queue during the rally in NYC
<kenvandine> iirc
<kenvandine> speaking of robert_ancell!
<kenvandine> good morning robert_ancell
<kenvandine> bug 1736232
<ubot5> bug 1736232 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "GNOME Software shows U1 login for snaps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736232
<kenvandine> we thought that had already been SRU'd to xenial
<robert_ancell> kenvandine: ah, not yet
<robert_ancell> I'll throw another SRU out today. Not that they ever seem to get past the phased updates though...
<jbicha> robert_ancell: you can ask bdmurray to override the phasing
<kenvandine> please do
<robert_ancell> jbicha: yeah, it's just that it keeps getting triggered again...
<kenvandine> we really need that in xenial
<jbicha> I'm sad that Zesty never got a gnome-software SRU fully phased
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I assume he can hack it to 100%
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, which package has that fix, snapd-glib or gnome-software?
<jbicha> or you can do a "security" update, those completely bypass phasing
<robert_ancell> kenvandine: gnome-software. It's the version in the PPA currently. I think we were waiting for the previous SRU to complete and then upload it.
<popey> :(
<robert_ancell> jbicha: yeah, I don't think I should do that...
<popey> Anything we can do to help?
<popey> i have a nice clean VM ready to test :)
<kenvandine> popey, help verify the SRU when robert_ancell gets it in proposed
<jbicha> robert_ancell: ok but see what bdmurray has to say
<robert_ancell> jibel: do you remember if you tested gnome-software 3.20.5-0ubuntu0.16.04.7?
<robert_ancell> The current process is I upload to the PPA, QA confirms, then it goes to -proposed, then we check all the errors.ubuntu.com issues that stop the phased updates, then it goes to -updates
<robert_ancell> Needs a release manager :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-05
<hurricanehrndz> anyone know how to enable IPForward using netplan and networkd as the renderer
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<oSoMoN> on fait aller :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<jibel> salut seb128
<seb128> lut jibel
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
<willcooke> hey seb128.  Long story ;)
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke, seb128
<Laney> morning!
<willcooke> hi Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey oSoMoN, hey seb128!
<Laney> seb128: good, getting back into it!
<Laney> being spammed on lots of gnome irc channels
<Laney> good week / good day off?
<seb128> not a week, just a longer w.e :) and yes, spent some days in France that was nice and relaxing
<seb128> what about you, good week off?
<Laney> yeah, lots of pub / walk / hanging out
<Laney> opened email 0 times which was fun yesterday ;-)
<Laney> cold though
<seb128> :)
<seb128> snow?
<seb128> we had a bit over the w.e, that was nice
<Laney> little bit on the hilltops
<Laney> but not much :(
<Laney> it was icy on some days though and the place is very hilly
<Laney> so sliding around
<Laney> funscary
<ricotz> jbicha, hi, I am going to pick up your proposed firefox packaging changes for the next trunk build, and forward-port from there
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, you had a machine with nvidia hw, iirc?
<popey> oSoMoN: he does. but he uses nouveau AIUI
<oSoMoN> right, IÂ remember now
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, any chance you can switch temporarily to the proprietary driver to help me debug the chromium snap issue?
 * Laney is using nvidia
<Laney> but if you need any actual snap help I might not be the best person :-)
<oSoMoN> Laney, youâre using the proprietary drivers?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> don't tell rms
<oSoMoN> Laney, I won't, if you can confirm that the chromium snap doesn't work ;)
<Laney> oSoMoN: stable?
<oSoMoN> yes, stable
<oSoMoN> as a bonus if you can try beta and edge that'd be nice, but I expect the result will be identical
<Laney> yeah it's just a black window
<Laney> and apparmor isn't happy
<oSoMoN> ok, that's consistent with what popey and others are seeing
<oSoMoN> Laney, what are the denials?
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26118048/
<oSoMoN> Laney, any seccomp denial?
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26118073/ saw those on beta/edge
<Laney> all black too
<Laney> hmm, seccomp, where's that?
<oSoMoN> on my machine I get them in /var/log/audit/audit.log
<ogra_> they should be in syslog/journal
 * Laney doesn't have that
<Laney> what does it look like?
<Laney> I mean I have entries from audit in journal but they look the same as those denials to me
<Laney> just with AVC at the start
<oSoMoN> that syscall=133 entry is mknod, looks like the same issue that mvo looked into
<oSoMoN> Laney, would you mind stracing it to confirm the node it fails to create? see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/stracing-snap-commands/1433
<Laney> oSoMoN: yeah, the only mknod it shows is for /dev/nvidiactl
<mvo> oSoMoN: I still see this syscall=133 issue, iirc when we talked last you looked into the chromium source to see if its needed, we should have that in the core snap but I guess chromium is building its own sandbox or something(?)
<oSoMoN> yeah, IÂ *think* the relevant code is here:Â https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/content/gpu/gpu_sandbox_hook_linux.cc?sq=package:chromium&l=195
<mvo> oSoMoN: did you talk to jdstrand about the mknod issue on nvidia with chromium yet? maybe we can just add it
<oSoMoN> mvo, I did a while ago, but I don't remember the outcome of the conversation
<mvo> oSoMoN: thanks, I wonder if we could simply allow mknod in the confinement with argument filtering on nvidiactl
<mvo> oSoMoN: but something for jdstrand to decide :)
<oSoMoN> yeah
<jdstrand> I don't recall otoh what you are referring to
<oSoMoN> jdstrand, see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-chromium-62-0-3202-62/2569/42
<jdstrand> (but we can't arg filter in the manner described because we can't arg filter on the path)
<oSoMoN> the chromium snap fails to render when run on nvidia hardware with the proprietary drivers
<oSoMoN> and this appears to be down to something chromium tries to do with /dev/nvidiactl
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: this seems related to chromium's own seccomp sandbox
<jdstrand> I mean, based on the incompleete strace
<jdstrand> there is something very wrong there. it successfully stats, later gets ENOENT from seccomp, it tries to stat, gets eperm, then tries to mknod
<jdstrand> I mean, none of that seems like it should go together
<jdstrand> why would you stat a file that you got ENOENT on? why would you mknod a file you got EPERM on?
<oSoMoN> yeah, that doesn't look right
<jdstrand> the seccomp denial is for open. we allow that so that should be chromium's seccomp sandbox
<oSoMoN> in fact IÂ think the relevant code is https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/gpu/ipc/service/gpu_init.cc?type=cs&q=nvidiactl&sq=package:chromium&l=83
<jdstrand> I suspect there may be an interaction between chromium's namespace setup and the per-snap mount namespace
 * oSoMoN is lost in (sandbox) translation
<jdstrand> I don't have nvidia hardware
<jdstrand> I wonder if you passed --no-sandbox (is that the right option) to chromium if it would make it work
<jdstrand> that might give a clue if it is sandbox interactions
<popey> yes, if you pass --no-sandbox, you get a window
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Zs63UnQq/chromium_snap_on_nvidia_with_no_sandbox
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: that may be a clue ^
<oSoMoN> ah, that's a good clue indeed
<oSoMoN> popey, do you get hw-accelerated rendering? see the output of chrome://gpu
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3lhImbzG/I%20think%20so
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HDGGxDgW/unsnapped%20chrome%20on%20same%20machine
<popey> so not quite the same, no
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: CanAccessNvidiaDeviceFile() should return true with just apparmor (access() isn't mediated by apparmor). if the chromium sandbox sets up a mount namespace, its possible it isn't accounting for snap-confine's mount namespace
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: also the fact that it is trying to mknod should indicate that this is happening in the privileged code since the process would need CAP_MKNOD to have any chance of success with that call
<jdstrand> the forum post is a bit light on details. I don't see any reference to logged denial (or lack thereof)
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: it might also be interesting to add 'capability mknod,' to the chromium apparmor profile and running without --no-sandbox. capability denials are rate limited and may not always show up
<oSoMoN> jdstrand, see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-chromium-62-0-3202-62/2569/25
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: that's with an old snapd though. the udev_enumerate error should be fixed
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: what was happening there is that nvidiactl wasn't udev tagged since nvidia is a proprietary driver and not allowed to use sysfs
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: because eit wasn't udev tagged, it wasn't added to the per-snap device cgroup
<oSoMoN> ok
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: you could try this: add 'capability mknod,' to the apparmor profile, then add 'mknod' to /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium...src, then do 'sudo /snap/core/current/usr/lib/snapd/snap-seccomp compile /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium....src /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium....bin
<jdstrand> (also reload the apparmor profile)
<oSoMoN> jdstrand, I don't have nvidia hw myself, Laney/popey can you try that?
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: if that works, then do an strace of the working version
<jdstrand> to reload the apparmor profile, do 'sudo apparmor_parser -r /var/lib/snapd/apparmor/profiles/snap.chromium.chromium
<jdstrand> so those ...src and ...bin files would by snap.chromium.chromium.src and snap.chromium.chromium.bin, respectively
<jdstrand> be*
<jdstrand> and the strace should use https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/stracing-snap-commands/1433
<popey> oSoMoN: ok
<popey> jbicha: stuck at first step - "add 'capability mknod,' to the apparmor profile... wat?
<popey> sorry jbicha , i meant jdstrand :)
<jdstrand> popey: add 'capability mknod,' to /var/lib/snapd/apparmor/profiles/snap.chromium.chromium, then run 'sudo apparmor_parser -r /var/lib/snapd/apparmor/profiles/snap.chromium.chromium
<jdstrand> '
<jdstrand> popey: you have r3604 of the core snap?
<jdstrand> (ie, 16-2.29.4.2)
<popey> yes
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> popey: after you load the apparmor profile, then modify /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium.chromium to have mknod. then do: sudo /snap/core/current/usr/lib/snapd/snap-seccomp compile /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium.chromium.src /var/lib/snapd/seccomp/bpf/snap.chromium.chromium.bin
<popey> done that
<popey> now need to reload apparmor profile..?
<jdstrand> popey: then do: sudo strace -u <your username> -e '!select,pselect6,_newselect,clock_gettime' -f -D -vv -o ./chromium.trace /snap/bin/chromium
<jdstrand> popey: yes, see above
<popey> ok
<popey> all done, now to trace
<popey> ok, chromium launched
<popey> and giant trace file made
<jdstrand> popey: did it not launch before?
<popey> previously it launched but blank window
<popey> it only launched successfully with --no-sandbox
<jdstrand> popey: and you launched without using --no-sandbox?
<popey> on this trace session, yes
<jdstrand> ok, can you make that trace available somewhere?
<popey> on it
<popey> jdstrand: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/chromium.trace.gz
<jdstrand> popey: also, can you paste the output of cat /sys/fs/cgroup/devices/snap.chromium.chromium/devices.list?
<popey> jdstrand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26118453/
<jdstrand> popey: when ready, can you undo your apparmor and seccomp changes (reloading the apparmor profile and recompiling the seccomp profile) and run the strace again, reporting if it broke again?
<popey> is removing / reinstalling the snap sufficient to undo that?
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> and then again after a reboot
<jdstrand> (to make sure the cgroup is cleared)
<popey> ugh
<popey> I _really_ don't want to reboot
<jdstrand> the reboot is less important at this moment
<jdstrand> popey: I need to run an errand, but will checkc back
<popey> jdstrand: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/chromium.trace2.gz
<popey> kk
<jdstrand> popey: did the second trace fail again?
<popey> yes
<jdstrand> popey: let me rephrase. after reinstalling, did it fail in the same way as before you made the apparmor/seccomp changes?
<popey> yes
<popey> blank window
<jdstrand> ok
<popey> first trace is what I would call a "successful" launch of chromium - a browser window appeared. Second trace is what I'd call a "fail" - an empty window containing a grab of what was under the window when launched
<jdstrand> I think the first stat is snap-confine
<jdstrand> so the successful trace.gz shows it is trying to mknod /dev/nvidiactl for no good reason, it is getting EPERM, ignoring it and moving on and trying to open() it
<jdstrand> this doesn't seemed to be coded correctly
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: ^ (feel free to look at trace.gz (the successful run with apparmor/seccomp changes) and trace2.gz (the unsuccessful one without)
<jdstrand> )
<oSoMoN> jdstrand, popey : ack, thanks
<oSoMoN> going for a quick lunch and I'll take a close look
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: if you could figure out where it is mknod()ing that, comment it out, I suspect it would work. an upstream patch for the needless mknod() would obviously do more than that
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: soon, with tyhicks' seccomp won't kill PR, this would also go away
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: (I suspect)
<jdstrand> ok, I really need to go
<jdstrand> bbl
<popey> oSoMoN: jdstrand looks like this is where they do it? https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/content/gpu/gpu_sandbox_hook_linux.cc?q=kNvidiaCtlPath&l=195
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: actually, you technically wouldn't need to send up an upstream patch. you distro patch to remove the mknod until tyhicks PR lands, then can remove. granted, upstream is wrong and burning syscalls
<jdstrand> ok, really leaving
<jbicha> ricotz: thanks! ð
<seb128> ok, it's meeting time
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  5 14:31:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic:
<oSoMoN> o/
<andyrock> o/
<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks (out), duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<jibel> hi
<jbicha> o/
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: andyrock
<kenvandine> o/
<seb128> andyrock, hey
<seb128> hum, he just waved 3 minutes ago?
<andyrock> 1. Updated merge request for udisks2 after review (this is required to hide snap squashfs in gnome-disks)
<andyrock> 2. Opened bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/xenial-backports/+bug/1735160 to backport python3-macaroonbakery in xenial
<andyrock> 3. Proposed debdiff for protobuf 2.6.1 to build python3 deb too
<andyrock> 4. Proposed debdiff for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-apputils-python/+bug/1735162
<andyrock> 5. Proposed debdiff to backport python3-macaroonbakery in xenial with some workarounds (like using proto2 instead of proto3)
<andyrock> 6. Built a ppa to test the backport https://launchpad.net/~azzar1/+archive/ubuntu/bug-1735160
<andyrock> 7. eow
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735160 in Xenial Backports "Please backport python3-macaroonbakery 0.0.6-1 [universe] from bionic" [Undecided,New]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735162 in google-apputils-python (Ubuntu) "Cannot import basetest in python3" [Medium,In progress]
<andyrock> sorry I didn't get the ping
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thanks andyrock
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * refreshing debdiffs for bug #1699179
<dgadomski> * testing -proposed fix for bug #1638695
<ubot5> bug 1699179 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Bionic) "PackageReporter kicks in during do-release-upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699179
<ubot5> bug 1638695 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Xenial) "Python 2.7.12 performance regression" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638695
<dgadomski> eof
<seb128> thanks dgadomski
<seb128> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> â¢ A fresh Ubuntu 18.04 install now only installs 3 gtk2 rdepends: Firefox, Thunderbird and libgtk2-perl (for debconf). (Some input methods still require gtk2 or Qt). LP: #1585903
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1585903 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Make it possible to remove gtk2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585903
<jbicha> â¢ Filed MIR for mod-dnssd (needed for gnome-user-share) LP: #1731065
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1731065 in mod-dnssd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mod-dnssd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731065
<jbicha> â¢ Demoted mono and cvs to universe
<jbicha> â¢ Cherry-picked gtk3 commit to enable the Insert Emoji right-click menu item in places like gedit
<jbicha> â¢ spice-vdagent MIR was approved but someone needs to package a security fix before it can be promoted to main LP: #1200296
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1200296 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[MIR] spice-vdagent" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200296
<jbicha> I'll probably drop the usb seed after this meeting since there hasn't been any objections so far
<jbicha> eof
<Laney> yeah, good idea
<seb128> sounds good indeed
<seb128> thanks jbicha
<seb128> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: jamesh
<seb128> snapcraft-desktop-helpers:
<seb128> * my two PRs got merged, improving performance for snaps using the
<seb128> GNOME platform snap.
<seb128> * unfortunately there were reports of problems from people not using
<seb128> the platform snap.  This was down to the older GLib in 16.04 not
<seb128> looking for scheams in $XDG_DATA_HOME.  A fix for this has been pushed
<seb128> out, and no further problems have been reported.
<seb128> * I'd like to bring the speed ups to the non-platform versions of the
<seb128> part, but it doesn't look like snapcraft currently has the required
<seb128> hooks at the moment.  I started a thread on the forum to see if there
<seb128> is interest in adding them.
<seb128> snapd:
<seb128> * user-mounts branch is still waiting to land.  I need to follow up on
<seb128> what else needs doing.
<seb128> * gnome-online-accounts-service branch works
<seb128> #topic jibel/heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: jibel/heber
<seb128> jibel, heber, hey
<jibel> - Finished SRU verification of gnome-software in artful, waiting for publication to -updates.
<jibel> - Investigated how to run gtk apps with dtrace enabled for glib to measure application performance.
<jibel> - Defined a basic set of tests to smoke test releases of Firefox.
<jibel> - Ported selenium autopkgtest of Chromium to Firefox.
<jibel> - Investigated specific cases of upgrade failures for customers.
<jibel> - Submitted merge proposal for snapd tests.
<jibel> - Testing of Bluez 5.47 snap on desktop.
<jibel> - Snap autopilot-gtk in progress but the introspection of GTK apps is still not workingâ¦
<jibel> ...
<seb128> thanks jibel
<seb128> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: kenvandine
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> * Reviewed, tested and merged the desktop helpers PRs from jamesh.
<kenvandine> * Debugged issues found with the desktop helpers improvements related to gsettings schemas and the gtk3 launcher
<kenvandine> * Rebuilt all of the GNOME snaps with the improved desktop helpers
<kenvandine> * Two more GNOME projects accepted the snap packaging upstream
<kenvandine> * Working on test snaps for desktop helper testing
<kenvandine> EOF
<seb128> thanks kenvandine
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> sup
<Laney> â¢ short week due to hols
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest:
<Laney> â kernel bug that takes down the machines is still happening, whinged at apw about that and now sforshee is assigned
<Laney> â£ trained him on how to get into the environment and operate nova enough to work on a fix
<Laney> â some more skill sharing with Steve
<Laney> â¢ systemd-session
<Laney> â started working on this, kicked some upstream bugs a bit
<Laney> â been working on some units to push upstream
<Laney> â trying to understand what upstream changes are going to be needed (gnome-session stuff)
<Laney> â now I can log in to a black screen!
<Laney> â going to be an ongoing project
<Laney> â¢ snap seeding
<Laney> â got review from Colin, fixed based on that feedback
<Laney> â he raised the issue of classic snaps, apparently they need to be seeded differently so we'll have to be able to specify that in the seed I think
<Laney> ð
<seb128> thanks Laney, quite some work for a post-week-off couple of days :)
<seb128> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<seb128> oSoMoN, hey
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â updated chromium dev to 64.0.3278.0, and updated snap in edge channel
<oSoMoN>   â updated chromium beta to 63.0.3239.70, and update snap in beta channel
<oSoMoN>   â rebased hardware-accelerated video decoding PPA on latest dev branch: https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/cr-vaapi-test/+packages, need to test again and find out what upstream is up to
<oSoMoN>   â tested a11y in latest dev branch, good improvements to exposing the accessibility tree but OSK still not functional, with a simple (and incomplete) patch I enabled it and submitted to upstream authors interested in a11y, they are working on it already
<oSoMoN>   â expecting beta branch to be promoted to stable this week
<oSoMoN>   â currently investigating snap issues with nvidia proprietary drivers with jd_strand and po_pey's invaluable help
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â 5.4.3 migrated from bionic-proposed to the release pocket (i386 autopkgtest failures were ignored)
<oSoMoN>   â 5.4.2 SRU migrated to artful-updates after a possible regression (bug #1733849) was discarded
<ubot5> bug 1699772 in linux (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1733849 linux-image-4.13.0-12-generic, linux-image-4.10.0-24-generic, linux-image-4.8.0-56-generic, linux-image-4.4.0-81-generic, linux-image-3.13.0-121-generic | Regression: many user-space apps crashing" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699772
<oSoMoN>   â 5.4.3 snap has been in candidate channel for a few days (rebuilt against updated desktop helpers, now with logic for mime, icon and schema cache generation at build time rather than at run time) and no negative feedback so far, will promote to stable channel today
<oSoMoN> that's it from me
<seb128> quite a busy week it seems :)
<seb128> thanks oSoMoN
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ had two day off work
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring (pulseaudio, totem-pl-parser)
<seb128> â¢ usual rounds of bugs triaging
<seb128> â¢ continued reviewing the plans for the cycle and discussed details of some of the work with people
<seb128> </:week>
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - cpdb-libs: Released version 1.1.0 upstream, to solve problems with Debian packaging.
<tkamppeter> - avahi: Received the patch for advertising services on localhost. It is actually a one-liner! One of the GSoC 2017 students did it for me. I have reviewed it and now I am preparing for testing it. Now 18.04 will ship the complete driverless printing fun, including USB.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Sahil (who did the PCLm support in cups-filters, for Mopria and WiFi Direct) got his first job starting in July 2018 (congrats), but wants to do (and we want, too) the GSoC 2018, too. He has the next two months free, so he will do his GSoC 2018 in Dec 2017, Jan 2018, and May 2018. Similar will probably happen with Nilanjana. I will probably mentor these students. If all works out 18.04 will already have some GSoC 201
<tkamppeter> 8 code, shipping one month before start of official GSoC 2018 coding.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Continued planning.
<tkamppeter> - CUPS snap: Some exchange of ideas.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> thanks tkamppeter
<seb128> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, around or should I copy your summary from the email you sent?
<seb128> copy it is
<seb128>  Â· Various fixes at the gjs PR to avoid acccess to deleted objects
<seb128>    methods / properties, added tests and got merged:
<seb128>    https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/merge_requests/22
<seb128>  Â· Fixed some gnome-shell issues (potential crashes) caused
<seb128>    by access to deleted objects:
<seb128>    https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=791233
<ubot5> Gnome bug 791233 in general "Various Javascript errors in accessing deleted object properties" [Normal,New]
<seb128>  Â· Finished the SRU for the unity stack in xenial, did some fixes
<seb128>    to it, and wrote a call-for testing post to get people verify
<seb128>    the fixed bugs
<seb128> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/unity-stack-sru-for-ubuntu-16-04-help-verify/2420/5
<seb128>  Â· Got in touch with Ambiance-RW author and did some triaging
<seb128>    to get him propose upstream his changes.
<seb128>  Â· Fractional scaling work:
<seb128>    - Fixed some issues with the a11y zoom
<seb128>    - Some refactoring to fix some blurry effects that were
<seb128>      happening when using fractional scale.
<seb128>    - Fixed loading of some kinds of textures using TextureCache
<seb128>      when having resource-scale.
<seb128>    - A refactoring of TextureCache to fix potential crashes
<seb128>      on loading sliced images.
<seb128> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<seb128> - Got first iteration of guest support branch for AccountsService
<seb128> - Working on guest support in GDM
<seb128> - Code clean-ups in GDM
<seb128> - Analysing gnome-software crashers in errors.ubuntu.com
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-12-05 | Current topic: aob
<seb128> did I forget anyone? any other topic?
<seb128> k, seems not
<seb128> efficient meeting today, let's wrap then
<seb128> thanks everyone
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  5 14:47:02 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-12-05-14.31.moin.txt
<oSoMoN> sweet and short, thanks seb128
<kenvandine> thanks seb128!
<jbicha> seb128: btw, I filed the MIR needed for latest udisks LP: #1735499 but it needs libblockdev to get autopkgtests and 2 more MIRs
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735499 in udisks2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libblockdev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735499
<seb128> jbicha, thanks, those are for the recommends? what features are missing without those extra plugins?
<Trevinho> seb128: sorry I arrived few minutes later, thanks for pasting :)
<seb128> Trevinho, no worry, good morning, how are you today?
<jbicha> seb128: libblockdev-crypto2 is for LUKS so I think we really want that, but I haven't looked very closely at all of it
<Trevinho> seb128: I'm good, thanks... what about you?
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm good thanks
<Trevinho> great to hear :)
<mdeslaur> What component in 17.10 creates the .local and .config directories?
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: I guess the first app that is launched and that might need them? :o
<mdeslaur> hrm, I'm looking at bug 1735929 and trying to figure out what that might be
<ubot5> bug 1735929 in Ubuntu "security problems with incorrect permissions for ubuntu 17.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735929
<seb128> mdeslaur, I would guess gnome-settings-daemon but it might be that other components who need those dirs create them if they don't exist as well
<seb128> mdeslaur, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/housekeeping/gsd-housekeeping-manager.c#n391
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: so I think, one thing we can do is having a component creating them earlier with proper rights...
<jdstrand> popey: mind doing another test for me?
<Trevinho> might be even a migration script, no?
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ that code is supposed to be that no
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, but it might run after other things in session I guess
<mgedmin> hmm, I don't see mkdirsnoop in https://github.com/iovisor/bcc
<mgedmin> but it would be the perfect tool to discover who creates the directory, if it existed
<mdeslaur> maybe fatrace
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: not sure if adding just an inotify monitor would help in saying the process who creates things
<mdeslaur> I mean the package called fatrace
<tedg> Isn't it xdg-user-dirs-update?
<seb128> hey tedg
<kenvandine> hey tedg
<Trevinho> oh hey tedg
<jbicha> mdeslaur: what about having something ship those directories in /etc/skel/ ?
<mdeslaur> hi tedg
<seb128> tedg, that handles images/videos/templates/etc not the private dirs
<tedg> Howdy folks, ah, I thought it did all of them.
<seb128> jbicha, what about stack unreliable workarounds rather than fixing the bug? :)
<seb128> stacking*
<Laney> it does make ~/.config but only because that's where user-dirs own config lives
<Laney> IIRC
<seb128> that component didn't change for years though, so if we are looking at a bug it's not likely there
<tedg> Perhaps it should make .local and that would fix mdeslaur's bug ;-)
<jdstrand> popey: when you have a moment: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26119147/
<jdstrand> hey tedg! :)
 * tedg blushes from all the hellos :-)
<jdstrand> popey: actually, make that http://paste.ubuntu.com/26119164/ (the first should be enough so if you started with that, that's fine)
<seb128> mdeslaur, well, I guess another way would be to look at the binaries active and do remove the dirs/restart the binaries one by one and see if they create it and with which mode
<popey> jdstrand: i will have time to look at that in an hour or so
<mdeslaur> seb128: let me see how far back this issue goes, and then I'll install fatrace and will figure it out
<seb128> mdeslaur, I can find it tomorrow if you want
<mdeslaur> seb128: I'll let you know how far I get, thanks
<jdstrand> popey: ok, I think I can come up with workaround policy for browser-support. just need you to confirm it works
<popey> ok
<seb128> mdeslaur, k, thanks
<jdstrand> popey: please report back here either way so I can help troubleshoot if needed. if it succeeds, then please respond to https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-chromium-62-0-3202-62/2569/46
<oSoMoN> jdstrand, that'd be awesome!
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: it would certainly save you some time :)
<jdstrand> it's really weird that chromium is doing that
<jdstrand> "I'm not root, the file exists, but I'm going to mknod it anyway"
<oSoMoN> yeah, that really doesn't sound right
<popey> jdstrand: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/chromium.trace3.gz
<popey> jdstrand: chromium launched fine with those changes
<jdstrand> popey: great, thanks. can you comment in the forum?
<popey> done
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, that's a very similar issue you were seeing with chromium, isn't it? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-libreoffice-5-4-3/2935/6?u=osomon
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, yes, same issue
<kenvandine> Trevinho, ^^ do you have any ideas about that?
<kenvandine> Trevinho, apps that register as a gapplication doesn't have the issue
 * Trevinho reads
<kenvandine> it happens when the snap refreshes while the app is running
<kenvandine> chromium and libreoffice snaps
<Trevinho> kenvandine: mh, it looks like it happens when the .desktop file is deleted
<Trevinho> I'm not much familiar with all that but i can give a look
<kenvandine> Trevinho, thx
<Trevinho> kenvandine: is this happening also when a .deb is updated?
<kenvandine> not that i'm aware of
<Trevinho> it would be nice to test
<kenvandine> so the running process might be like /snap/chromium/54/bin/chromium
<Trevinho> as it might be the way the .desktop file sobstitution is done
<kenvandine> and after updating it might be /snap/chromium/62/bin/chromium
<kenvandine> something like that
<kenvandine> doesn't happen for the gnome snaps
<Trevinho> I remember we had an issue when they were just replaced, while it was fine when removed first then replaced or the other way around... :o
<Trevinho> mh, yeah, they are tracked using the desktop id too, so I guess it's simpler
<kenvandine> right
<Trevinho> anything smaller I can try with? :)
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> no... sorry :)
<kenvandine> those are the only two i know of
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, do we have a bug report to track the issue? or should IÂ file one? (if so, against which project Trevinho?)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, no bug report i know of
<kenvandine> using the gnome platform snap, checkout the time it takes to run the first time
<kenvandine> real	0m0.289s
<kenvandine> using the gtk3 launcher though... much worse still
<kenvandine> real	0m31.995s
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, Trevinho:Â bug #1736525
<ubot5> bug 1736525 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[snap] shell looses track of currently running app when snapd updates it to a newer revision" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736525
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, Trevinho: thx
<Laney> night night
<oSoMoN> night all
<jbicha> robert_ancell: howdy, I poked at LP: #1271358 today, maybe we'll be able to close that 4-year old bug this cycle :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1271358 in vino (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.18 (remove controls needed for Unity and other desktops)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271358
<robert_ancell> jbicha, that would be nice :)
<kennyloggins> robert_ancell: forgive my misunderstanding but does this affect 2D or 3D in bionic beaver ?
<kennyloggins> robert_ancell: is that a canonical issue ?
<robert_ancell> kennyloggins, 2D or 3D what?
<robert_ancell> kennyloggins, the vino package had just been held back forever, so it would be nice to run the latest upstream.
<robert_ancell> There's not a major improvement for users, but it means we'd be able to get any future enhancements more easily
<kennyloggins> what is the sub-user for this - is it a debian issue aswell ?
<robert_ancell> kennyloggins, debian is already running a newer version
<jbicha> kennyloggins: see https://community.ubuntu.com/t/update-vino-to-current-version-affects-unity/2537
<kennyloggins> but buster is not completed in terms of compatability, is that right - unsure kinda of getting the whole vino-issue. What is vino ?
<robert_ancell> kennyloggins, vino is the GNOME VNC server
<kennyloggins> jbicha: I have just realised this is a hyacinth-issue then. Does it affect zinc aswell ?
<robert_ancell> Upstream is 3.22 (https://download.gnome.org/sources/vino), Debian has this version (https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=vino), Ubuntu has 3.8 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino)
<jbicha> kennyloggins: I have no idea what you're talking about
<kennyloggins> jbicha: sorry, Its my blueberry tea, apologies. shall not ping you anymore.
<kennyloggins> robert_ancell:  I just think that someone in packaging that uses something like yakkety yak zinc would help, well maybe if I knew someone there ?
<kennyloggins> robet_ancell : would this guy help ? https://launchpad.net/~pitti
<kennyloggins> robert_ancell: anytime soon, pal - or am I distracting you ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-06
<simoniz0r> :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<jibel> koza, hi, I followed your advice and removed bluez (which also remove its dependencies gnome-bluetooth and pulseaudio-module-bluez)
<jibel> koza, but bluetoothd from the snap still doesn't start automatically
<jibel> and then I cannot enable bluetooth at all from control center
<jibel> g-c-c reports BT is 'On' but it is not
<jibel> koza, and on artful the daemon fails to start with: D-Bus setup failed: Connection ":1.117" is not allowed to own the service "org.bluez" due to security policies in the configuration file
<koza> jibel, im here now. sorryfor delays still in Taipei and simetimes i miss pings here
<koza> jibel, which release process you have on your mind?
<jibel> koza, the release of the bluez snap. when is it published to the different channels and the promotion criteria?
<jibel> koza, i'm documenting the qa process
<jibel> if there is nothing documented it's fine too, i'll propose something
<koza> jibel, no, everything is documented?
<koza> jibel, ce has all the processes done the *right* way and nothing slips to channels
<koza> jibel, what is the purpose of your documentation, who will use the new process?
<jibel> koza, the purpose is to describe how to test this snap on desktop.
<koza> jibel, so more likely a test plan
<jibel> and apart from the test plan is the spreadsheet i've nothing
<jibel> koza, a test plan, but also how to install and run it on desktop
<koza> the spreadshet is the most important part :-) it is being converted to checkbox btw
<koza> jibel, ah ok got it. instructions you mean. for me process is a workflow since the build to release so I got confused
<jibel> koza, it's important but making sure every tester is testing the same way on the same environment is also important
<koza> jibel, running on desktop is quite not defined atm as we have not targeted desktop so far focusing on core
<jibel> then when it should be tested by the desktop team, in which channel, which tests are done upstream, any automation, ... so there is no duplicated effort and a good coverage
<jibel> koza, okay, lets discuss this during the bluez meeting with duflu when he is back
<koza> jibel, correct and this is what im trying to achieve and convince to since like months. we have discussed it with willcooke number of times during bt sync meeting. nice that finally somethings is shaping out of this.
<jibel> koza, i'll write a draft to use as a base for the discussion
<koza> jibel, sure, or anytime you want we can jump on HO. for me it is important that we as a devs maintaining bluez follow the repetetive testing that we can benefit in a future by building up a database of past results. hence the test plan.
<koza> jibel, sure, share with me once you have it, ill be more than happy to review and contribute to.
<jibel> thanks
<koza> willcooke hey and nice timing, i just have mentioned you :-)
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> what did I miss?
<koza> willcooke, a discussion about testing bluez on desktop. i referred to a number of our discussions about the process, test plans and such
<willcooke> super
<jibel> trying to understand where CE and desktop meet during the release of the bluez snap
<Laney> hai
<koza> jibel, we do meet. all of the snaps are tested by the developer, cert, testflinger and commercial qa.
<koza> jibel, moreover for bluez releases i require test plan to be executed
<koza> jibel, we do have a snap update verification board that is semi-automated (much like ci-train & britney) for tracking purposes.
<koza> jibel, different qa teams are performing handovers to next in line qa teams as the snap travels from channel to channel
<koza> jibel, responsibilities are defined and shared
<jibel> koza, I know but at some point it lands on the desktop, and I cannot find any info about what is currently done on this platform
<koza> jibel, what i see that at least for bluez and rest of the snaps maintained by ce you are part of this. as for the apps and other I have no idea.
<koza> jibel, on desktop none as it did not landed there so far. for bluez you have the user tests set which is about using bluez through Unity (update to gnome on its way) UI plus Keyboards & Headsets which are tested also through the UI (not bluetoothctl) to check the integration.
<seb128> hey Laney willcooke
<seb128> (back online from the coffee place)
<willcooke> morning seb128
<koza> o/
<seb128> willcooke, how are you today? having your office back in a work-suitable place?
<seb128> hey koza
<willcooke> seb128, yeah nice and quiet again here today, and the teeth aren't as painful (yet)
<willcooke> on the plus side, my new office now has a floor, some electrical sockets and some network points
<willcooke> and a window :)
<seb128> nice
<koza> willcooke, where have you been that you see windows and floors as a major improvements?
<willcooke> koza, on a building site :D
<koza> willcooke, sounds like fun
<willcooke> it is, some days
<Laney> seb128: sorry, missed your hey
<Laney> hi!
<Laney> how's it going?
 * Laney nods willcooke koza too
<seb128> good! could have slept longer though
<seb128> and you, how are you?
<Laney> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm not bad
<Laney> washing machine is broken though so having to go to the launderette
<Laney> irritating
<Laney> first world problem tho
<seb128> hehe
<willcooke> ha, an AO van just pulled up to deliver a new washing machine to my neighbour
<willcooke> Looks like they're getting a Bosch one.  Good choice.
<willcooke> #washingmachinenews
<Laney> Sam Sung is coming at the weekend to look
<Laney> we're getting error code 4E #washingmachinenews
<willcooke> ohh
<willcooke> now, that is interesting
<willcooke> we had a Samsung, with I /think/ the same error.  They came out about 4 times before we gave up.
<willcooke> and bought a new one
<Laney> oh god
<willcooke> It would just stop half way through a wash
<Laney> it does like 5 minutes and gives up with that
<willcooke> and wouldnt spin or turn the drum properlyt
<willcooke> does it keep rocking the drum back and forth
<willcooke> ?
<willcooke> just a little bit
<Laney> yeah chugs about a bit
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> same
<Laney> i think it decides that it's not getting water in
<Laney> clearly is though
<willcooke> Not buying a Samsung again
<Laney> :(
<Laney> was a which best buy!
<willcooke> I dont trust Which anymore
<willcooke> for the same reason
<willcooke> I dont think they can do more than a couple of days of testing
<Laney> just found the invoice
<Laney> this thing was Â£599
<Laney> that means I'm going to try to make them fix it :P
<willcooke> oof, yeah
<Laney> not in warranty tho
<willcooke> :(
<willcooke> Is there some sticker on the front about a 10 year warranty on the motor?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I was suspicious of that at the start
<Laney> when I bought it
<Laney> like that's the part that will probably never break
<Laney> the fridge has one of those too about the compressor
<willcooke> indeed
<doko> willcooke, jbicha: updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-libpinyin/+bug/1735362  looks like the way forward is ibus-libpinyin ... that would require a MIR, and subscribing to the package, before ibus-sunpinyin can be demoted (and one less gtk2/glade2 package in main ...)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735362 in ibus-sunpinyin (Ubuntu) "ibus-sunpinyin: port to Python3 needed" [Undecided,New]
<koza> willcooke, jibel, seb, bt weekly?
<koza> seb128 ^^
<willcooke> humm,
<willcooke> why is is marked as not coming in my calendar
<willcooke> one sec
<Laney> back in a min
<seb128> koza, sorry, since duflu is  away and you are travelling I assumed we were not doing it, I'm currently in a noisy place without headphones
<koza> seb128 ok no worries
<seb128> koza, if you have any question I'm happy to reply on IRC
<koza> seb128 no questions
<seb128> k
<joumetal> is there good chance to get bug #1168978 fixed in bionic release?
<ubot5> bug 1168978 in cairo (Ubuntu) "Evince crashes consistently, reading 50+ pages into specific PDF document" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168978
<joumetal> bug is fixed upstream by small patch
<seb128> Laney, thanks for adding the details to the shell theming trello card!
<Laney> yw, thanks for pinging me
<Laney> haha
<Laney> the hub told me off for writing a crappy post
<Laney> it was "yeeeeeeeeeeeahhhhhhhh"
<seb128> lol
<Laney> is it possible to get moderator privileges?
 * Laney would like to close the guest session thread
<Laney> at some point those "give me feedback on XYZ" threads stop being useful
<willcooke> popey, ^ can we get some extra privs, or can you help Laney with closing the thread?
<seb128> is that the sort of things we usually do to stop a discussion? does it create any noise issue for others who don't follow that topic?
<seb128> (I'm fine with closing it, just wondering if we have "moderation guidelines" or such)
<Laney> maybe that'd be useful
<Laney> in this case I think it's just people basically +1ing and it makes at least me click on it when it's bumped
<Laney> I think you could say thanks, this thread has been useful, the work is scheduled at this link, going to close it now
<popey> Closing a thread is fine if it's wandering around or not productive
<popey> Happy to have desktop team people moderate that category
<seb128> good
<popey> Can it wait until I am back at my desk later this evening? Am at a conference today
<Laney> yeah no big deal
<Laney> it's not that important anyhow
<Laney> thanks!
<joumetal> help /channel
<jbicha> doko: GunnarHJ has been helping us with language related pacakges, maybe ask him what he thinks about switching those pinyin packages
<doko> jbicha: I don't know who that is, just got feedback from Debian. Maybe subscribe him to the bug report?
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj
<seb128> what's the topic?
<jbicha> LP: #1735362
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735362 in ibus-sunpinyin (Ubuntu) "ibus-sunpinyin: port to Python3 needed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735362
<jbicha> doko: I'd prefer if you asked Gunnar (instead of me asking him) since I'm not particularly interested in switching around our IM packages
<seb128> jbicha, doko, i Cced Gunnar & asked on the bug, let's see
<doko> ta
<seb128> doko, jbicha, in fact that was already discussed a bit on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-October/005269.html
<seb128> we should probably switch, I'm going to look a bit more at the differences first though
<jbicha> thanks, that shows how I wasn't paying careful attention to those pkgs :|
<seb128> :)
<doko> seb128: what was your solution regarding bittornado?
<seb128> doko, what i wrote in the bug
<seb128> remove it from the seed & demote
<seb128> it seems so ancient decision of having a command line torrent client, I don't think that makes much sense on a desktop
<seb128> could be more for server maybe
<doko> hmm, I only got the message about the owner ...
<seb128> doko, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bittornado/+bug/1735346/comments/3
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735346 in bittornado (Ubuntu) "bittornado: Python3 port needed, or demotion to universe" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> doko, re libglade2, the -dev depends on python, do you know why that binary is in main? http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.artful/rdepends/libglade2/libglade2-dev is empty
<doko> looking ...
<Trevinho> good morning guys
<doko> seb128: as a wrote ... ibus-sunpinyin ...
<doko> hmm, that's python-glade2
<seb128> doko, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libglade2/+bug/1735369
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735369 in libglade2 (Ubuntu) "libglade2: Please investigate demotion or port to Python3" [Wishlist,New]
<seb128> I meant
<doko> seb128: try adding it to extra-excludes in some seed?
<seb128> what does that do and why is it needed?
<seb128> can we just demote it and see if something tries to bring it back to main?
<doko> sure, we could do that
<seb128> I would start by trying that
<jbicha> seb128: are you asking just about the -dev package, or are you asking about python-glade2 or what?
<seb128> jbicha, I'm trying to understand the bug I just mentioned, it looks like what depends on "python" is libglade2-dev?
<doko> that was just about the -dev package. But I assume that requires extra-excludes for other -dev packages of the gtk2 stack as well
<seb128> i guess I don't understand what extra-excludes is/does
<seb128> or why it is needed
<jbicha> seb128: python-glade2 is kept in main because of LP: #1735872 and ibus-sunpinyin
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735872 in system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu) "Port system-config-kickstart away from pygtk2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735872
<doko>  * Extra-Include: *-dbg *-debug *-dev *-doc *-docs gir1.2-* *-examples
<doko> this is the dangerous thing ...
<seb128> jbicha, but that's not a binary from libglade2 source?
<seb128> jbicha, or do I read https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libglade2/1:2.6.4-2 wrongly?
<jbicha> python-glade2 then depends on libglade2-0
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that's fine
<seb128> -dev is the one which depends on python
<seb128> libglade2-0 doesn't depends on python right?
<jbicha> I mean we could drop libglade2-dev from main but there's no point yet since s-c-kickstart depends on python-glade2 which depends on python and libglade2-0
<doko> it would be nice if somebody could disable the flaky gvfs autopkg tests ...
<jbicha> doko: file a  Debian bug since the gvfs pkg is in sync-ish with Debian
<seb128> jbicha, well, one less is better than one more? ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, also i don't understand why libglade2-dev has to be in main
<doko> jbicha, maybe better done by some friendly people, rather than by me?
<doko> as I tried to explain, it's pulled in by the Extra-Include
<jbicha> what, you're not friendly enough? ð
<doko> I have some history with Debian gnome =)
<jbicha> I'm uncomfortable messing with the glaky gvfs autopkgtests
<jbicha> ggg
<seb128> doko, ah ok, i saw that you copied that line but didn't understood it was to explain why it's in main, thanks
<jbicha> this is generally the list of stuff keeping gtk2 in main https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gtk2-demotion
<jbicha> there's a couple more in progress like Firefox, avahi and colord but the missing ones from that list are fairly easy
<doko> I'm afraid, openjdk isn't changing soonish
<jbicha> seb128: we can override the Extra-Include rule like I did in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/view/head:/supported#L344
<seb128> jbicha, right, thanks
<seb128> jbicha, debconf isn't likely to be ported this cycle is it?
<seb128> said differently that's a nice goal but not likely
<jbicha> seb128: ask cjwatson about it, I think it's probably not too difficult-ish for a perl person
<seb128> I asked previous cycle
<seb128> my feeling was that it was on his list but low priority enough that it wouldn't happen
<seb128> so I don't count on it to be done this cycle
<jbicha> I'm guessing it's a bit more interesting if it's literally the only thing keeping gtk2 in the default install for an LTS
<seb128> right, but even if it is I don't think it's going to autocreate resources
<seb128> and it's not in any case
<jbicha> Firefox and Thunderbird are getting the gtk2 shlibdeps hack so debconf is the only thing
<jbicha> ricotz: I opened https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/1423363 otherwise we can apply the same hack from Firefox to Thunderbird Beta too
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1423363 in Build Config "Drop Flash support from Thunderbird now?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<jbicha> seb128: :)
<seb128> jbicha, good surprises coming :)
<jbicha> so basically, we're likely to have the default install not include gtk2 but the live ISO will still need it for some input methods (and gparted ?)
<doko> |   +- libgtk2.0-dev
<doko>  |   |  * Reverse Depends:
<doko>  |   |   +- libavahi-ui-dev
<doko>  |   |   +- libdbusmenu-glib-dev
<doko>  |   |   |  * Reverse Depends:
<doko>  |   |   |   +- libappindicator3-dev
<doko>  |   |   |   +- libdbusmenu-gtk3-dev
<doko>  |   |   |   +- libdbusmenu-jsonloader-dev
<doko>  |   |   |   +- libunity-dev
<doko>  |   |   +- libgail-dev
<seb128> spam!
<doko>  |   |   +- libglade2-dev
<doko>  |   |   |  ! skipped
<doko>  |   |   +- libgpod-dev
<doko>  |   |   +- libgtkmm-2.4-dev
<doko>  |   |   +- libgtkspell-dev
<doko>  |   |   +- libindicator-dev
<doko>  |   |   |  * Reverse Depends:
<doko>  |   |   |   +- libindicator3-dev
<doko> so it looks like you want to add all these to extra-excludes ...
<doko> if they are gtk2 only
<jbicha> doko: where did you get that list from?
<doko> from the germinate output
<Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.bionic/rdepends/gtk+2.0/libgtk2.0-dev
<jbicha> gail is the same source pkg as gtk2
<doko> right, the extra-excludes only help for some binary packages
<jbicha> avahi just needs the Debian version merged, but see LP: #1735960
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735960 in avahi (Ubuntu) "Merge avahi 0.7 with Debian" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735960
<jbicha> gpod and gtkspell and indicator aren't in main any more
<doko> $ apt-cache show libgtkspell-dev|grep ^File
<doko> Filename: pool/main/g/gtkspell/libgtkspell-dev_2.0.16-1.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<jbicha> I was kind of hoping sunweaver would take over libdbusmenu maintainership (details need to be worked out), but if we want things faster, there's a trivial packaging change I can apply to it
<jbicha> doko: I believe you demoted gtkspell today https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/madison.cgi?package=gtkspell&S=on
<doko> ahh, ok, re-running my local germinate
<jbicha> gtkmm2.4 is because of gparted
<jbicha> seb128: see GNOME bug 791035
<ubot5> Gnome bug 791035 in general "Desktop entries for GNOME Control Center are not correctly translated when using gettext" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=791035
<doko> jbicha: demoted libglade2-dev python-gtk2-dbg python-gtk2-dev python-gtk2-doc
<doko> looks like you could try to demote other gtk2 -dev/-dbg packages too by adding extra-excludes
<jbicha> I don't think it helps much to drop the -dev from main if we don't drop the library tooâ¦
<jbicha> doko: but what do you think about LP: #1736620 where the -dev does actually end up pulling in gtk2 but the primary library does not depend on gtk2
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1736620 in graphviz (Ubuntu) "graphviz: Disable gtk support?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736620
<doko> any recommends?
<doko> any -dbg or -doc packages?
<jbicha> the only thing that depends on libgvc6-plugins-gtk is libgraphviz-dev so I suggest #2 but I don't know much about graphviz
<jbicha> or #3 if you think doing the Excludes thing is reasonable
<mdeslaur> seb128: fyi, I added a list of problematic packages in bug 1735929
<ubot5> bug 1735929 in session-migration (Ubuntu) "security problems with incorrect permissions for ubuntu 17.10" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735929
<mdeslaur> seb128: just changing them to 700 seemed to work, but I'd appreciate being looked at by the desktop team in case those are used in some other way
<doko> I'm a bit hesitant excluding -dev packages which are not just gtk2 related
<jbicha> doko: oh I see, libgraphviz-dev has rdepends in main
<seb128>  mdeslaur, ok, thanks, now is dinner time but I've a look later
<mdeslaur> no rush
<mdeslaur> thanks seb128
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> jbicha, that fix from L_aney makes sense to me
<jbicha> ok
<jbicha> seb128: for libdbusmenu, I thought we didn't really care about reviewing minor Unity-related uploads
<seb128> in practice we don't care a lot
<seb128> but it's still good practice to wait a bit in case somebody wants to give you a review
<seb128> you can move ahead the next day or such if that's not the case
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> on that note calling it a day, good night everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-07
<kennyloggins> robert_ancell ping
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> ah
<Laney> good morning homies!
<willcooke> how do Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> being moistened by caroline
<Laney> you good?
<willcooke> Ticking over
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> No real rain here yet
<Laney> it's not that bad
<Laney> hey oSoMoN
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ng5
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN
<Laney> quite a temperature change between today and tomorrow :-o
<willcooke> oh yeah
<willcooke> It feels very mild here right now, didnt need the heating on this morning
<Laney> although the highest hour is 8 and it says 12 at the top
<Laney> not sure what that's about
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<Laney> maybe it's a "feels like" thing
<Laney> ahoy seb128, how's it going?
<seb128> tired, but good otherwise
<seb128> you?
<Laney> yeah good
<seb128> I went to tennis yesterday, that was nice :)
<Laney> we're going to a christmas concert tonight
<Laney> so wearing my finest jumper
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> Laney, nice :) you should share a picture to the group :)
<willcooke> +! :)
<Laney> oho
<Laney> will do later :P
<jibel> oSoMoN, I've the selenium tests of chrome ported to the firefox snap. Maybe I could add them to the autopkgtests for the debian package first?
<oSoMoN> jibel, that sounds like a plan
<jibel> oSoMoN, where is the packaging branch of firefox ?
<oSoMoN> https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam
<jibel> thanks
<popey> jibel: have you ever created or used something which plots bug statuses in launchpad projects over time?
<popey> I'm sure I've seen one at some point, but can't think where/when/who made it
<kennyloggins> hiya popey, just like to say I really enjoyed the uuntu podcast this week. I was going to make the mistake of posting on the #bv forums - but thought better of it.
<popey> haha
<popey> thanks kennyloggins
<jibel> popey, bdmurray surely has scripts to do that. I also probably have a bunch on my machine. What do you want to do?
<popey> graph for one project the trajectory of new vs other statuses
<popey> so we can see triage and fixing being done over time
<jbicha> doko: hi, since you're on the MIR team, could you review LP: #1734885 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734885 in fonts-noto-color-emoji (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-noto-color-emoji" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734885
 * kenvandine turns off swap 24G of RAM should be enough!
<kenvandine> chromium was using over 20G of RAM this morning, which pushed my swap usage up to nearly 8G...
 * Laney hands kenvandine stress-ng --all 0 --maximize --aggressive
<Laney> hey!
<kenvandine> hey
<kenvandine> stress-ng looks fun
<Nafallo> stress Ng into doing what, exactly? ;-)
<kenvandine>        stress-ng - a tool to load and stress a computer system
<Laney> fitting 24G of ram in his belly
<Nafallo> Laney: with or without the horns? :-)
<Laney> suggest lubricating those first
<kenvandine> lol... and now the cat unplugged the router
 * kenvandine was already annoyed
<mdeslaur> kenvandine: try feeding it
<kenvandine> mdeslaur, good idea :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<kenvandine> it's the 3rd time he's done it, evil cat
 * kenvandine is a dog person
<kenvandine> and he knows it
<kenvandine> my internet really needs to be cat proof
<mdeslaur> you need some sort of connector that requires opposable thumbs to unplug
<jbicha> ricotz: I no longer have "Ubuntu" in my Firefox 58 user agent string but it works on Firefox 57, do you want me to file a LP bug?
<ricotz> jbicha, it worked with 58~beta8?
<Nafallo> kenvandine: you may invest time in a RCA and fix it :-P
<jbicha> oops I was still on 58 beta5, let me upgrade
<jbicha> ricotz: never mind, it's working for me now
<ricotz> jbicha, good, keep it updated ;)
<ricotz> there are usually two beta releases a week
<jbicha> it was disabled when I upgraded to bionic and I wasn't paying attention :)
<ricotz> I see ;)
<willcooke> night all
<jbicha> robert_ancell: gnome-software/artful is at 90% phasing ð¤
<robert_ancell> jbicha, :)
<robert_ancell> So close...
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-08
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I don't think unity-control-center really has an owner now, maybe ask Trevinho if he wants to review the screen-sharing merge
<willcooke> morning
<Laney> hey hey!
<seb128> good morning ukers
<Laney> hey seb128, happy friday
<Laney> there are a few flakes of snow outside!
<seb128> Laney, happy friday indeed!
<seb128> heh, here it's raining as well but it's rather hail than snow
<seb128> Laney, did you have a fun evening? where is the photo of you with your best jumper? :)
<Laney> seb128: yeah it was fun, lots of christmassy songs
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETCZR5HySkQ
<Laney> i forgot to take a picture :(
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> maybe somebody else did though, will send it over if someone forwards me one
<seb128> I don't know if that's google calendar being a crappy solution or how people are using it but it keeps annoying me
<seb128> like I never understand what/why events change from the emails
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I wonder why my firefox wants to open on "about:startpage" which is an invalid url
<willcooke> seb128, sounds like you still have ubufox enabled perhaps?
<seb128> it's marked as desactivated because obsolete
<Laney> should we skip the gvfs tests on ppc64el/s390x? dok_o raised in #ubuntu-release
<Laney> although to be fair they're not exactly great on other arches either
<Laney> maybe someone should look into that
<seb128> Laney, wfm, having a look would be nice but I'm not sure who we have around atm who has slots for that
<Laney> mmm
<jbicha> willcooke: if you're looking for extra stuff for the weekly newsletter, there's https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-noto-color-emoji/0~20171204-1
<jbicha> https://github.com/googlei18n/noto-emoji/pull/181
<jbicha> less blushing too: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/external/noto-fonts//+/0b18fc5
<willcooke> thanks jbicha, just going through the meeing notes now.  If there isn';t enough this week I'll do a bigger one next week
<jbicha> seb128: I filed LP: #1737053 but it needs a bug subscriber
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1737053 in brotli (Ubuntu) "[MIR] brotli" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737053
<seb128> hey jbicha, happy friday
 * seb128 looks at that "yet another MIR"
<jbicha> sorry :(
<seb128> we have an issue that the MIR team isn't really active atm :/
<seb128> jbicha, desktop-bugs subscribed
<jbicha> thank you
<seb128> np
<doko> and for the fonts mir ... we need some bureaucracy to get new bug subscribers for the packages, and a statement that it really is just a split
<jbicha> how much bureaucracy is needed for font packages? it's not like we really do SRUs or security updates for them
<jbicha> doko: but since you brought up font MIRs, could we talk you into reviewing LP: #1734885 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734885 in fonts-noto-color-emoji (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-noto-color-emoji" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734885
<Nafallo> seb128: did you tag it #yam ? ;-)
<Nafallo> (for Yet Another MIR)
<seb128> Nafallo, I should :)
<doko> we need bug scubscribers, and the statement from the package owners, that the package is ok from main from their point of view. which shouldn't be much work for a package split
<seb128> doko, speaking of mirs, do you if anyone is active in the ubuntu-mir team? there is a stack of reports waiting unreviewed since the summer and some blocking updates/things to build (like libblockdev needed for the new udisks which gnome-disk-utility depwaits on)
<doko> both cypher mox and n acc are currently away ...
<jbicha> aren't you on the mir team too though?
<seb128> doko, they are away since august? ;)
<doko> ohh, didrocks is on this team as well ...
<seb128> he's away until new year though
<seb128> he didn't take any vac day between january and december
<jbicha> !
<doko> seb128: there is no MIR for udisks
<seb128> I asked him if he could unblock one (gnome-charmap) before his holidays but looks like he didn't manage to squeeze that one
<seb128> doko, libblockdev
<seb128> udisks2 is already in main
<doko> can't find that either
<jbicha> LP: #1735499
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1735499 in udisks2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libblockdev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735499
<jbicha> oops, I hadn't subscribed ubuntu-mir until now
<doko> aha ... seb128: so that one was filed 10 days ago, not "this summer", and the MIR got aware of it only now ...
<seb128> doko, right, the summer ones are things like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-todo/+bug/1713171 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-characters/+bug/1713176 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/switcheroo-control/+bug/1691585
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1713171 in gnome-todo (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-todo" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1713176 in gnome-characters (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-characters" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1691585 in switcheroo-control (Ubuntu) "[MIR] switcheroo-control" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> LP: #1709164
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1709164 in bubblewrap (Ubuntu) "[MIR] bubblewrap" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1709164
<seb128> jbicha, that one probably needs security team review/input though
<jbicha> yes, should the MIR team forward it to security?
<doko> yes, state that a security review is needed and assign to the security team
<jbicha> doko: I mean that used to be the MIR team's job to do thatâ¦
<jbicha> number 4 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<seb128> jbicha, yes, it just hasn't been reviewed by the mir team yet, I expect they are going to bounce to security once they do
<doko> jbicha, seb128: libbockdev review done, set to incomplete
<seb128> doko, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, so looking at that .local permission bug, did you figure out what component is creating the dir or just listed the ones that have code create it and using wrong permissions?
<jbicha> doko: would Foundations like to be the bug subscriber for libblockdev?
<doko> jbicha: why, udisks2 has another bug subscriber
<jbicha> doko: cool, would Foundations like to be the bug subscribe for udisks2? ;)
<doko> no ;p
<jbicha> I guess I need to work on my persuasion skills ð
<jbicha> doko: isn't udisks2 the kind of thing that Foundations should be responsible for?
<doko> isn't udisks2 demotable if the using package is demoted?
<jbicha> seb128: um, do you want to subscribe Desktop Bugs to libblockdev?
<seb128> doko, jbicha, it's not like that subscription meant anything in practice so adding desktop-bugs, udisks should be maintained by foundation as they maintain systemd and other low level services but arguing over that here isn't going to lead anywhere I feel
<seb128> jbicha, subscribed
<jbicha> I don't understand what could cause LP: #1737083
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1737083 in epiphany-browser (Ubuntu) "Epiphany does not start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737083
<jbicha> Trevinho: are you around?
<seb128> jbicha, today is an holiday in Italy
<jbicha> thanks, it's hard to keep track of what timezone he's in :)
<seb128> he's still in south america
<jbicha> see!
<seb128> but he tends to have shifted hours and often work at night so who knows
<seb128> jbicha, that but I would bet on an outdated schemas in /usr/local or such
<seb128> having the procmaps would help
<kenvandine> it's interesting, turning swap off completely has made chromium not use nearly as much memory
<jbicha> seb128: do you want to comment there? I'm not familiar with procmaps
<seb128> jbicha, sure
<jbicha> pitti: any objections if we remove python-blockdev (from source libblockdev ) ?
<jbicha> since it's pretty new and we don't need python2 packages if nothing depends on them
<Laney> night
<Laney> happy weekend!
<Laney> hope we get snowwwwwWWWww
<chrisccoulson> Laney, I've got my fingers crossed too
<chrisccoulson> we never get snow though
<willcooke> night all, have a good weekend!
<kenvandine> Laney, snowing here!
<kenvandine> too warm to stick though
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-09
<limbo__> hi
<limbo__> mouse movement is lagged on ubuntu 16.04
<limbo__> can anyone help
<sarnold> you may have better luck in #ubuntu -- this channel is more for coordinating people packaging the next devel release
<limbo__> ok thanks
<limbo__> i tried there as well
<sarnold> no luck? :( it is a bit late, most of europe is asleep, most of north america is eating dinner or drinking themselves into a stupor :)
<sarnold> if you don't get a response soon, consider also askubuntu.com, that'll catch a different audience and they may be more active, or it might remain 'visible' longer, etc
<limbo__> no luck
<limbo__> no one responded
<limbo__> is that usual, or because of the time
<sarnold> heh, I don't hang out in #ubuntu because there's normally way too much conversations in there
<limbo__> can you help
<sarnold> so if you're not getting much it's probably just the time
<limbo__> i can try see if some setting is off
<limbo__> when i am installing upgrade it is very responsive
<sarnold> not really, I've never had laggy mouse before, I'm not sure what to look for
<limbo__> ok
<sarnold> maybe synclient kind of thing if it's a trackpad
<limbo__> you are dev ?
<limbo__> its not trackpad
<sarnold> not really; I just do security things
<sarnold> can you try a different mouse or put that mouse in a different computer? that might let you know if the mouse itself is responsible
<limbo__> like what?
<limbo__> i did try, it is working fine other machine
<sarnold> is anything hoggign the CPU on laggy machine?
<sarnold> or hogging disk IO? that can have surprising impact on performance..
<limbo__> I am barely running anything now
<dobey> so who is going to update oxide to latest chromium to fix webbrowser-app which was installed by default in 16.04 (so technically still supported)?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-12-10
<rainbow_12> hi
<rainbow_12> there is a mouse lag in ubuntu 16.04
<rainbow_12> can anyone help me fix the issue
<kennyloggins_> rainbow_12: wat mouse are you using ?
<rainbow_12> hp wireless
<rainbow_12> kennyloggins:
<rainbow_12> hp wireless keyboard and mouse
<rainbow_12> keyboard works fine though
<kennyloggins_> yes I used to have an olde hp destop - pavillion I thnk.
<kennyloggins_> You're better off with a lenovo mouse:
<kennyloggins_> http://ow.ly/SQ9f30h87Fj
<kennyloggins_> as there is no bad karma with them.
<rainbow_12> yeah
<kennyloggins_> ....... (cklick 3rd party Used box) to get real price :)
<rainbow_12> but i think the problem is with drivers
<rainbow_12> do you know how to check that
<kennyloggins_> you're just banging your head against a brick wall - pal  (the drivers are in the kernel) please buy the lenovo.
<rainbow_12> lol
<rainbow_12> ok
 * kennyloggins_ refills his vape.
<kennyloggins_> OffTopic, think I shall go with Whipped Cream Banana.   http://archive.fo/UOSp8
<dobey> huh
<dobey> that was insanely weird
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hi, can we remove california? LP: #1730938
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730938 in California "california ftbfs with libical-3.0.0" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730938
<robert_ancell> jbicha, is it dead upstream?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: it looks dead enough to me https://git.gnome.org/browse/california/log
<robert_ancell> yeah, +1 from me
<jbicha> doko: ^
<doko> robert_ancell: please comment on the bug report
<dobey> robert_ancell, jbicha: it's gnome-calendar what used to be california?
<doko> jbicha, robert_ancell: removed
<robert_ancell>  doko, ta
<dobey> err, isn't, not it's
<doko> needs time for publishing
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-12-03
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<duflu> (really the first one today)
<didrocks> good morning duflu ;)
<tjaalton> duflu: btw, eglexternalplatform headers are now in debian new queue.. egl-wayland will follow, but knowing how slowly the queue is processed I should probably upload them for disco too
<duflu> tjaalton, thanks. Is that the exact package name?
<tjaalton> duflu: source package yes
<tjaalton> -dev for the binary
<duflu> tjaalton, that appears to be different to https://github.com/NVIDIA/egl-wayland though, right?
<tjaalton> it's needed for egl-wayland
<tjaalton> which isn't in the queue yet
<duflu> Oh
<duflu> So it is
<tjaalton> eglexternalplatform uploaded to disco
<RAOF> tjaalton: oh, could you kindly cherry-pick the two post-1.1.0 commits into egl-wayland?
<tjaalton> RAOF: immediately after the tag?
<RAOF> They're required for Mir in order to actually have the wl_eglstream_controller symbols exported.
<RAOF> Yeah, immediately after the tag.
<tjaalton> alright
<RAOF> Oh.
<RAOF> You probably also want https://github.com/NVIDIA/egl-wayland/commit/e3b96b859d6a6d8de717bd3e4a75139553fe7027
<RAOF> So, maybe just pull master ð
<RAOF> The 1.1.0 release might not have been the finest release to start with ð
<tjaalton> yeah the top commit looks to be required as well
<clobrano> good morning all o/
<didrocks> hey clobrano
<willcooke> morning guys
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<clobrano> hey didrocks, how's it going?
<willcooke> hi didrocks, bien?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> clobrano: I'm good, thanks, yourself?
<didrocks> willcooke: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<clobrano> didrocks: I'm good as well :)
<willcooke> j'ai mal aux gorge.
<didrocks> argh, chacun son tour :p
<willcooke> The kids had a sickness bug over the weekend.  Back to normal now, but it was The Exorcist there for a while.  I wonder if I've picked something up from them
<duflu> Morning clobrano, willcooke, seb128
<Laney> mew
<didrocks> willcooke: classical
<didrocks> hey Laney
<duflu> ruf Laney
<clobrano> morning duflu, willcooke, seb128 :)
<seb128> hey willcooke duflu Laney clobrano didrocks etc :)
<willcooke> hi seb128, clobrano duflu Laney
<didrocks> re seb128
<Laney> what's up!!!!!!!
<seb128> it's monday \o/
<Laney> MAKE SOME NOISEEEEEEE
<duflu> all the desktop people, in the, umm, house
 * duflu goes to make a decaf and would offer Laney one too if he was closer
<seb128> w.e are nice but exhausting, I feel tired and with a start of a cold again :/
<Laney> :(
<didrocks> argh seb128 ;)
 * Laney brings seb128 a blanket and sends him away
<didrocks> the benefit of this is no excuse for a hot chocolate :)
<seb128> Laney, thx :)
<willcooke> andyrock, seb128 - I heard back from Michele re: the ordering of the window previews in the launcher.  He's merged the code to make the previews appear in the same order and will be dropping the old way (most recently opened at the top) totally. Could we rebase our Ubuntu branch?  It should have landed in the upstream main now.  Also - I had to ask him something for you and I can't remember what.  I'll search the logs.
<seb128> willcooke, commit access for andyroc_k
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> seb128, damn you're good.
<willcooke> seb128, just to our branch right?
<seb128> :)
<seb128> yes, but unsure you can have acl by branch?
<didrocks> yeah, you can, this is how it is setup now
<didrocks> the thing is that you can't then create new branches
<seb128> and yeah, it merged it upstream in https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/commit/86f4404df
<didrocks> like a maintainance branch
<seb128> well, that's fine I guess, we don't need those as often so requesting an admin is ok
<seb128> though andy wanted to discuss just moving to use a standard gbp workflow on launchpad as we do for other desktop components
<didrocks> agreed, and I don't think for non LTS version, those makes sense anyway
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> I don't understand why people really hate just git merge && gbp buildpackage
<didrocks> and prefer a 10 steps long feet process :/
<seb128> I think the issue is principaly lack of consitency and having to figure out what is the worklow there
<didrocks> especially as the current setup create the orig tarball and debian diff for you automatically
<didrocks> yeah, if I don't have to make releases of it, I think, do the best for you
<seb128> different location, different acl, different mp process
<didrocks> I don't care about location/acl
<seb128> I'm just guessing why he wanted it in the same format/location than others
<didrocks> yeah, and those makes sense
<seb128> but let's wait for him to be around rather than guessing :)
<didrocks> however, degrading the release process by other a complicated one on thisâ¦
<didrocks> if I'm not the one making upgrade/releases, on it then, I'm fine
<didrocks> otherwise, I disagree
<seb128> right
<didrocks> the process will never be the same anyway: upstream tarballs won't be named ubuntu-dock
<didrocks> and there is no debian VCS for ubuntu-dock
<didrocks> (same than ubuntu-settings and other ubuntu-only projects, we might then want to release tarballs and move all of them if the argument is consistency, which is acceptable, but adding a lot of work for not a real gain + a lot of additional work at each release IMHO)
<seb128> yeah, let's wait for andyrock, I'm unsure what was his main motivation
<seb128> if that was the fact that he's difficult to find a sponsor/someone with acls as it's set up today
<seb128> like I can't merge for him atm
<didrocks> I have nothing against moving to launchpad, this adds a little bit of overhead, but fine
<seb128> he's -> it's
<didrocks> I'm more opposed in changing to a gbp workflow though
<seb128> right, that sounds fair enough
<seb128> especially if that's the sort of projects where we do snapshots rather than tarballs
<seb128> which probably makes sense in that context
<didrocks> exactly
<seb128> so +1 from me
<seb128> I'm fine with either moving the branch to launchpad or adding people to github if that's possible
<didrocks> I have no strong opinion, the only difference is that we have 2 places to deal with when we add something upstream
<didrocks> but I think it's doable
<didrocks> if we are going to move to launchpad, we'll have to setup a proper project and so on, but nothing too hard
<tjaalton> RAOF, duflu: egl-wayland uploaded to both debian new and disco
<tjaalton> finally..
<duflu> tjaalton, you're my hero
<RAOF> Woot! Thanks!
<duflu> Is there a URL for it? I can't find it
<tjaalton> which url are you looking for?
<duflu> The Debian page, but I guess it will update within minutes
<tjaalton> yeah I think it'll take a while
<tjaalton> in the meantime you'll have this https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/disco/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<tjaalton> :)
<duflu> For unrelated reasons I was going to do some Nvidia work soon, so I guess I can verify this too
<willcooke> thanks tjaalton duflu RAOF
<k_alam> seb128: Hi, good morning......we talked about reviewing unity patches
<seb128> k_alam, hey, yes, were those the 2 u-c-c ones?
<k_alam> one u-c-c, one u-s-d
<k_alam> https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/unity-settings-daemon/media-keys-fix/+merge/359935
<k_alam> and
<k_alam> https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/unity-control-center/fix-image-preview/+merge/359937
<seb128> I saw them on the list, I try to have a look today
<k_alam> Thanks. :)
 * andyrock forgot to say "good morning all"
<jbicha> didrocks: "no debian vcs for ubuntu-dock" < I guess we could upload it to Debianâ¦
<jbicha> good morning
<seb128> jbicha, hey, that comment is not very constructive/useful in the context of the discussion which was about whether it was fine to have the packaging branch or github
<jbicha> I don't see it as unconstructive
<jbicha> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator is in Debian, but appindicator is a far simpler extension to package
<seb128> it has nothing to do with the topic discussed though
<seb128> but feel free to package it for Debian if you wish
<popey> Where should bugs against https://snapcraft.io/snap-store go? (Also it's a bug that the page doesn't say where bugs go) kenvandine ?
<seb128> popey, we don't have a standard solution for bug reporting against snaps do we?
<jbicha> seb128: are you aware of https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snaps-officially-supported-by-canonical/1719 ?
<seb128> jbicha, yes, why?
<popey> seb128: well, i tend to suggest people put bug links in the descriptions
<popey> unfortunately the link jbicha provided is outdated
<seb128> popey, k, that seems suboptimal :(
<popey> indeed
<seb128> well, that page is also a patch-solution at best
<seb128> not a proper answer to the problem
<popey> perhaps we need a bug against the snap store to allow is to expose how to file bugs against the snap-store snap
<popey> :)
<seb128> lol
<popey> I mean, we do, really. I'll speak to store people and see what the plans are.
<seb128> that would be nice
<popey> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/metadata-key-for-bug-trackers/1604
<popey> looks like it was already briefly discussed, outcome "use the contact field". So we could do that in the short term.
<willcooke> Anyone heard of a gnome-shell issue where once the screensaver kicks in you can't get back to a working desktop and have to reboot?
<willcooke> 18.04 machine upgraded from 16.04
<popey> Yes, if the system updated via unattended-upgrades while the screensaver was up
<willcooke> oh ho ho
<willcooke> that
<willcooke> I thought we'd stopped that from happening though
<willcooke> popey, aware of a fix?  Is it a dist-upgrade again?
<popey> I just dropped to tty and kill the login manager
<popey> so effectively reboot
<willcooke> this is happening all the time though, not just during upgrade
<willcooke> or am I missing somethign?
<popey> oh
<popey> I don't know about that
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> thx
<popey> np
<seb128> willcooke, you mean you updated a 16.04 machine and it looked during the upgrade and you couldn't unlock then?
<willcooke> seb128, no, it sounds like (and I've not seen the machine in question yet) but everytime the screensaver kicks in (and I assume it's actually suspending) it cant wake up again
<willcooke> I've asked for logs, but I might go and look at this one, since Sarah said that someone else in the office has the same thing
<kenvandine> popey: i'll add bug reporting to the snap-store snap in the store
<popey> <3 thanks
<kenvandine> once i decide where i want that to be :)
<kenvandine> my first thought is gitlab
<kenvandine> but we're ending up with bugs all over the place
<willcooke> kenvandine, hey!  Is this anything to do with magazine view?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1806146
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1806146 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-software:11:magazine_chain_pop_head:thread_memory_magazine1_alloc:g_slice_alloc:g_slice_alloc0:g_type_create_instance" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> Or just a clash of names
<kenvandine> clash of names
<willcooke> kk, thx
<popey> kenvandine: willcooke I have -1'd our catch up later. Our team are having fewer meetings this week. If you had anything specific to discuss, feel free to ping a mail over <3
<willcooke> popey, ack, wfm
<popey> Wimpress: ^
<kenvandine> popey: wfm
<willcooke> night all, cubs tonight
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-12-04
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> o_/  didrocks
<duflu> o_|
<duflu> o_/
<didrocks> hey duflu!
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, t'as passÃ© un bon w.e?
<duflu> o/
<seb128> hey again duflu :) (& didrock_s)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 ! trÃ¨s bon week-end en France, et toi?
<seb128> moi saison des rhumes et manque de sommeil :/
<seb128> mais sinon bon w.e et lundi ok :)
<seb128> jamesh, hey, guess what! it's meeting reminder day :p
<seb128> oSoMoN, ^ you too, wb :p
<oSoMoN> right, on it!
<jamesh> seb128: thanks.  Sorting it out.
<seb128> thx!
<seb128> duflu, looking to your pulseaudio merge, it's a bit weird that it doesn't include the debian/changelog new entries (those would also summarize the changes that you got merged in)
 * didrocks learns ascii orderâ¦
<didrocks> been wondering why a property wasn't showing up "of course, it's the first as it's a câ¦" :/
 * didrocks should take more coffee
<duflu> seb128, I forgot the convention of including the most recent one(s) from Debian.
<seb128> duflu, no worry. Also if you did a merge it might be worth uploading to disco, it's cheap enough and it means the pacakge is green then on our reports, list of merges, ettc
<seb128> didrocks, :)
 * didrocks needs now to find back on how to lock a key in gsettings to test the rebase in progressâ¦
<duflu> seb128, how do the reports detect that? Version prefix?
<duflu> Or just version greater...
<seb128> duflu, compare if ... that
<seb128> Debian version > Ubuntu version
<duflu> Yes
<seb128> (which is also why we usually import the debian/changelog entries and bump our version one "ubuntu1" sufix higher
<duflu> I think we branched too long ago to include all the entries. Would just include one or two
<duflu> But I'm also not looking at it right now. Maybe later this week
<ricotz> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi ricotz
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, feel free to merge things back and forth to the firefox beta branches
<ricotz> duflu, hey
<Laney> yo
<duflu> lo Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney, ricotz
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ack, will do
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
 * Laney fist bumps duflu didrocks oSoMoN seb128 
<Laney> what's happening?
<didrocks> not much, deep in the Shell, hoping to finish the extension story this week (or next with review time ;))
<didrocks> you?
<duflu> tseliot, when you're around, these are problematic in disco: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-410
<duflu> Heh
<Laney> also not much, seem to have fought off the cold
<duflu> tseliot, Good morning. Also, these are problematic in disco: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-410
<Laney> didrocks: have you been protesting? :-O
<didrocks> Laney: heh, no ;)
<Laney> ð
<seb128> duflu, you should maybe describe what's the issue with those nvidia drivers?
<duflu> seb128, it's the same installation failure as the existing bug reports show
<seb128> oh, I see
<seb128> changelog being different between archs, I saw that mentioned some days ago but didn't follow
<seb128> there was a guess that maybe it was a gzip bug
<willcooke> oh, morning all.  Sorry, went straight in to meetings
<Laney> moin willcooke
<Laney> management woes
<seb128> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<andyrock> morning all!
<willcooke> hi andyrock
<andyrock> seb128: I was working with the livepatch guys to make sure that update-manager can show the list of CVEs fixes
<andyrock> seb128: the branch is almost ready but the change is not Backward-compatible
<andyrock> seb128: in order to have a better transition I need to introduce a small change in update-manager and SRU it
<andyrock> seb128: the problem is that there is no bug atm. Is it possible to SRU it anyway?
<Deknos> hey, what is the official way to connect to an IPSEC/IKE Network with Ubuntu 18.04 Desktop?
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/359817 to add relevant patch tags, as you requested
<willcooke> Deknos, I think you would be better off asking in #ubuntu - this is more of a development channel
 * Laney screams the poppler scream of his ancestors
<seb128> andyrock, hey, what do you mean "is not Backward-compatible", what is changing in an incompatible way and what component doesn't deal with it/what's the impacT?
<andyrock> seb128: on newer version of livepatch (I asked them to block the change until we can properly deal with it), the "fixes" field in the yaml that we get from the /status api changed
<seb128> andyrock, we are not consuming that file today are we?
<andyrock> update-manager will fail to parse it and show more fixes that the real ones
<andyrock> seb128: in update-manager we are already using the /status api
<andyrock> the status api is not the status file used by update-notifier
<seb128> I was not aware that we had that feature today
<seb128> what is update-manager showing/when? is that on bionic?
<andyrock> let me get a screenshot
<seb128> not needed, I trust you on that
<seb128> sorry for the questions, but we can't change that file in a way that is backward-compatible?
<seb128> oSoMoN, best to talk to Laney for g-s reviews, Marco is off for most of decembre
<andyrock> seb128: not easily. The sru change on our side is going to be very small
<seb128> andyrock, the problem is not the SRU change, is assuring that people do install the update/fixed version, by experience we can't assume that's going to be the case
<seb128> what the damage if they use the old version?
<andyrock> they'll just get a message "Livepatch fixed X issues" instead of "Livepatch fixed Y issues" where X > Y
<andyrock> not a huge issue
<seb128> well, if it's misleading/wring...
<seb128> wrong
<seb128> man, it's 2018, why do people thing it's fine to do incompatible changes to an interface/not version those :(
<seb128> think*
<seb128> can't we talk the livepatch people out of being sily?
<andyrock> I had a call today with one of them
<andyrock> versioning is a solution is it's going to require major changes on their side
<andyrock> *but it's
 * didrocks nods at seb128
<didrocks> strongly
<seb128> come on
<seb128> rename the file
<seb128> how can that be "major changes"
<andyrock> it's not a file
<andyrock> it's a rest api
<andyrock> http over unix
<seb128> well, same, changing a name is probably a sed in their codebase
<didrocks> well, at least, say "no version == v1"
<didrocks> and then, starts at v2
<didrocks> if this wasn't planned from the start (spoiler alert: it shouldâ¦)
<didrocks> well, same, no version in the url == v1
<seb128> andyrock, I fail to see how that can be that complicated to version it/do what Didier is describing
<seb128> willcooke, can we talk the livepatch team in not being sily?
<andyrock> for complicated I mean that it will take time
<didrocks> I guess the "more complicated" is about "then, we need to take care of changing and if we do more breaking changes, do a v2, v3, v4â¦" but yeah, I fail to see as well how this is complicated, it's just more work
<didrocks> yeah, proper engineering takes time :)
<didrocks> otherwise, this is just developping
<andyrock> yeah but we need to deliver something before xmas
<andyrock> willcooke: seb128 let me talk with the livepatch again and try to come out with a different solution
<andyrock> they're not being sily, it was me that I was not clear enough about the details with them
<seb128> k
<seb128> thx andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, I don't understand enough what the incompatibility is, maybe it would be ok, but it feels like non-good-engineering in any case to do that
<seb128> and still an user visible impact even if we SRU
<seb128> people do install from the current iso which doesn't have the fix, they are going to see the non fixed codebase the first time
<andyrock> kk I'll talk with them
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> sorry was at lunch, reading
<willcooke> andyrock, if you have another call shall seb128 and I join?
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks, will do
<oSoMoN> Laney, when you have some time, would you mind reviewing and merging https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/359817 ?
<oSoMoN> in preparation for the next bionic SRU, unless there's no bionic SRU in sight, in which case it would be interesting to do one with that one patch (I can do the paperwork)
<andyrock> willcooke: was just a quick call to get the details sorted out
<andyrock> btw we got it sorted out
<andyrock> thx to a mistake I did in the past this is going to be easy to do \o/
<andyrock> willcooke: btw sure I'll invite you next time :)
<willcooke> andyrock, sounds like you got everything sorted, thank you!  No need to invite me unless you really want to
<willcooke> nice work andyrock
<clobrano> hi everyone o/
<clobrano> didrocks: I want to re-enable *-dark version release in Yaru snap
<clobrano> For this I followed the instruction from  https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/yaru-dark-variant/7936/3 and deleted from the .yaml files the lines where the *-dark variant was removed (both snapcraft.yaml and gtk-common-themes-parts.yaml).
<clobrano> However, gtk2 is still the light one, unless I change something in yaru's
<clobrano> snap/session
<clobrano> Moreover, I expected to see Yaru-dark or communitheme-dark folders in /snap/gtk-common-themes/gtk2 snap folder, but there are only the light variants. I am surely missing something
<didrocks> clobrano: I don't think the gtk2 thingy was wired in the build system, this surely needs work
<clobrano> didrocks: I see, I saw that there were some "rm *-dark" in yaml, so I thought it was available
<clobrano> ^ snap/session is the thing that made me think more. It hardcodes the path to only one gtk2 folder
<didrocks> clobrano: yeah, I don't remember if that one is an array or a single string, worth a try
<didrocks> clobrano: however, they won't be a second session to select dark
<clobrano> didrocks: tried, it makes a frankenstein :D, but maybe I did something wrong
<didrocks> clobrano: tried export GTK_SOMETHING_RC=firstpath:secondpath ?
<clobrano> didrocks: yes, exactly that one
<didrocks> hum, worth having a look, but if the second path exists and it doesn't work, maybe not supported by GTK2?
<clobrano> it makes a mix of both and changing theme on tweak does nothing
<didrocks> yeah, I think tweak doesn't read the variable
<clobrano> didrocks: yes, I think so. I'll try to find more info on how to switch gtk2
<clobrano> thanks :)
<didrocks> clobrano: a fallback would be from the session startup file to read the gsettings key
<didrocks> and adjusts as permits
<didrocks> still won't enable to switch on the fly, but that's the best I can come up with for now
<clobrano> didrocks: this is intersting
<clobrano> I'll investigate more
<seb128> didrocks, oh btw, I commented/updated the rygel MIR if you could have another look (at least to my comment), security added it to their review queue but said they would prefer a "positive opinion from the MIR team first" (like to be confident their review is not going to be wasted because the MIR is going to be denied at the MIR level)
<didrocks> seb128: I saw, on my list for later ;)
<seb128> didrocks, great, thx!
<Laney> oSoMoN: yes saw the message, can do later
<didrocks> I don't remember if the others deps were addressed
<seb128> didrocks, not yet, I'm looking at those next but they should be easier
<didrocks> seb128: I can only give an "ack if other deps are addressed" then, but I hope this is enough for the security team
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I would +1 on multi-arching
<didrocks> (so that you not wait on my format comment)
<seb128> didrocks, k, I can spend some time on that, I just wanted to unblock security by telling them "should be fine once those packaging problems are resolved, you can review"
<didrocks> from memory, this is what you asked (read that early this morning)
<didrocks> yeah, I'll still have another look before doing this
<seb128> thx
<seb128> but agreed
<didrocks> like the -dev and such, I don't remember why I reasked about it
<seb128> multiarch & autopkgtest are on my list
<didrocks> I think it's because you didn't tell which binaries would be promoted
<seb128> right
<didrocks> if you haven't already, maybe put the list in the description?
<didrocks> so that when I then do the promotion, I don't have to think which ones to deal withâ¦ :)
<seb128> will do
<didrocks> thx!
<oSoMoN> thanks Laney
<didrocks> spice-webdav, you are great, but you are slowâ¦ :p
<seb128> haha
 * willcooke rings the bell
<oSoMoN> is it recreation time?
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2018-12-04
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  4 14:30:34 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2018-12-04 | Current topic:
<tseliot> o/
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter,  robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> o/
<jbicha> o/
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> This weeks updates: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/monday-3rd-december-2018/8903/5
<seb128> hey
<kenvandine> o/
<tjaalton> o)
<willcooke> Let's start with BB rls bugs:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> One added by seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iputils/+bug/1798313
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798313 in iputils (Ubuntu) "traceoute6 gives error sendto: Invalid argument" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> yeah, I was unsure if it's important (and I didn't know before we owned iputils :p)
<willcooke> Yeah, I was wondering how we came to own that
<seb128> but sounds like ipv6 tools would be good to have working in the LTS
<seb128> probably n-m stack depedns
<willcooke> yeah, likely
<willcooke> I'd agree something like that low level tool should work in the LTS
<seb128> anyway, I'm not sure it's really worth actively rls tracking but I wanted at least to raise awareness/have it mentioned
<willcooke> Is it already on your backlog seb128?
<willcooke> or are you looking for someone to work on it?
<jbicha> it looks like Server has rdepends for it now. We used to have gnome-nettool in main
<seb128> I somewhat have it on my "things to keep an eye on"
<seb128> if someone wants to own it feel free
<willcooke> oki, I will add it to the agenda for the next Foundations/Server meeting and see if server want to take it on
<seb128> that said let's +1/-1 on rls tracking it?
<seb128> I think it's too minor so -1 from me :p
<didrocks> -1 as well
<jbicha> personally, I'd rather let Server or whoever triage it :)
<seb128> willcooke, let me rls-bb-notfixing it with a comment then
<seb128> and we can try to "sell" iputils to server
<willcooke> ack
<kenvandine> get top dollar!
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> k, added to the notes for the next foundations meeting
<willcooke> On to CC bugs:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Nothing new
<willcooke> Doing a quick scan of the others
<seb128> willcooke, https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/commit/?id=385a4886
<seb128> ups sorry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> that one has an important one
<willcooke> stand by, just checking the other CC bugs to make sure I havent missed anything
<seb128> ah ok, I though you forgot -dd and were done with the incoming lists
<seb128> sorry :p
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Ok, CC tracking is in good shape.  Everything is assigned and active (even those not showing as assigned are)
<willcooke> So now we come to DD incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1805857
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1805857 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network-manager dep8 failure blocks dnsmasq proposed migration" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> Who can take that one?
<seb128> Robie has been nice enough to do debugging on the issue and believes the real problem is on the n-m tests side
<seb128> the bug has some debugging details and an easy way to reproduce
<seb128> I +1 to nominate it since it blocks things in proposed
<willcooke> yeah, +1 to accept it
<willcooke> Laney, would you be able to take a look at it?
<seb128> he doesn't seem to be around
<Laney> yes I am
<Laney> guess so
<seb128> oh, sorry
<Laney> not that I know anything in particular about network-manager
<willcooke> thank you Laney
<seb128> I though I didn't see you wave or comment earlier so I assumed you were not
<Laney> but I take my share of rls bugs :-)
<seb128> thx Laney
<willcooke> Nothing else for us in incoming.  There are a couple of Ubiquity related ones, one of which andyrock is already looking at and the other is a minor string change which I can probably make an MP for easy enough
<andyrock> am I?
<willcooke> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1797381
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797381 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "In tablet mode, step "Who are you" OSK hides when the passwordd field is focused" [High,New]
<andyrock> ah that's not real a problem with Ubiquity
<andyrock> more ibus + gnome-shell
<seb128> we really need to sort out those OSK issues
<willcooke> Should that one be a rls tracked bug?
<seb128> andyrock, let's talk about them tomorrow, I might go coworking on Carlos friday so I can talk directly with him about things that are on our list
<willcooke> seb128 thanks, if it's not rls worthy could you untag it once you know more?
<andyrock> seb128: kk
<seb128> willcooke, k, well it's tagged but ubiquity is on the foundations list
<seb128> andyrock, that one is more a gnome-shell issue though no?
<willcooke> sure, but if the problem is elsewhere then it should probably be changed too
<andyrock> yes it's a gnome-shell issue (or ibus)
<andyrock> I know the problem but there is not an easy fix
<andyrock> let's discuss it tomorrow
<seb128> k
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> Ok, on to proposed migration issues:
<willcooke> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> before we wrap bugs
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> soprry
<seb128> k, or later :p
<willcooke> go on seb128
<seb128> bug #1749672 is on the bb list unassigned
<ubot5> bug 1749672 in xdg-desktop-portal (Ubuntu Bionic) "[MIR] xdg-desktop-portal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749672
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ you nominated it, can you get it assigned? to you as a default maybe?
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> thx
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<willcooke> thx kenvandine
<kenvandine> still waiting on security though
<willcooke> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<willcooke> Laney, do you want to do a run through? Or shall I go through them one by one?
<Laney> i'm good
<Laney> n-m is assigned
<Laney> libreoffice ought to be fixed
<jbicha> poppler is blocked by LO & xpdf https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/poppler.html
<oSoMoN> I'm looking at LO
<oSoMoN> still struggling to reproduce locally the unit test failures
<Laney> jbicha: i'll lead this, thanks
<seb128> oSoMoN, any chance you get it sorted out before your long w.e?
<oSoMoN> seb128, that's definitely my top priority
<seb128> k
<Laney> thx
<Laney> so for poppler, I started looking at xpdf
<Laney> would be good if someone can help out with other things
<seb128> I can do the MIR for the new font depends
<seb128> fonts-yrsa-rasa
<Laney> yeh
<seb128> I guess enchant/hunspell is libreoffice blocked
<seb128> ?
<Laney> think so, let's look at those once it is unblocked
<seb128> k
<Laney> just poppler and tracker for someone to help on I think
<willcooke> cups-filters looks like its poppler again
<Laney> yes
<seb128> jbicha, what's the deal with tracker? are you handling that one?
<seb128> Laney, poppler is there more needed if olivier do libreoffice and you xpdf? or did you need help on xpdf?
<jbicha> seb128: I'm stuck on tracker, I reported the issues upstream. We could fix the autopkgtest regression if we switched back to autotools
<Laney> dunno, I didn't analyse every package
<Laney> the task would be partially to do that
<Laney> and then help fix anything left over
<seb128> Laney, k, I'm going to try to help on poppler as well and review the list
<Laney> ty
<willcooke> thank you chaps
<jbicha> I believe those are the only 2 blockers for poppler really. perl needs to clean its autopkgtest queue & there are a few leaf packages to be removed like
<jbicha> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/hunspell.html
<seb128> on tracker I don't have a strong opinion
<seb128> if it's not blocking other things it's probably fine to wait a bit on upstream
<seb128> if the MIR is approved and we want to enable it in nautilus and need to unblock then we can revert to autotools
<seb128> imho
<seb128> or proper fix which would be even better
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> I'd rather assign someone to sort it out one way or another
<Laney> than decide now how to fix it
<tkamppeter> willcooke, for cups-filters there came some fixes to fit it to current Poppler recently. I will soon make a new release. In general, I hope to get a GSoC student modify pdftoraster to stop using unstable Poppler interfaces.
<willcooke> thx tkamppeter
<seb128> andyrock, I know you are busy, do you think you could have a look to the track test issue this week or next?
<seb128> andyrock, feel free to tell me you prefer not if you are already packed with that livepatch work
<Laney> not sure it was that cool to switch and upload a broken version
<andyrock> seb128: I'll take a look
<seb128> thx andyrock!
<seb128> and yeah, uploading something buggy and not sorting it out is not the best :/
<seb128> I guess we covered the list now?
<jbicha> Laney: if you're talking to me, I'm trying to run autopkgtest more before I do major uploads like the tracker meson switch
<jbicha> I'm ok with switching it back to autotools for a bit. The meson build is less ideal for us right now anyway
<andyrock> seb128: is there a bug somewhere?
<andyrock> or issue
<seb128> andyrock, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/tracker/issues/59
<gitbot> GNOME issue 59 in tracker "functional-16-collation test failures" [Opened]
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, AOB I guess?
<andyrock> thx
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2018-12-04 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything?
<kenvandine> nope
<seb128> not me
<willcooke> going once
<andyrock> ð¶
<Laney> jbicha: yes, I think experimental & filing bugs in advance rather than breaking the 'production' suites would have been better
<jbicha> andyrock: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/tracker/issues/61 is the other bug
<gitbot> GNOME issue 61 in tracker "tracker-miner-fs test: Parent recursive/4 not indexed yet" [Opened]
<Laney> i.e. I would suggest switching back
<Laney> glib's conversion has been done well in this regard
<Laney> sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the aob
<willcooke> np
<jbicha> ok, I'll switch tracker back to autotools to unblock things
<willcooke> I think we can end here and carry on afterwards
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  4 15:07:47 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-12-04-14.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<andyrock> thx
<oSoMoN> thanks
<didrocks> thx
<seb128> thx!
<seb128> kenvandine, do you think you get give a try to the xserver ppa version from bug #1754693 to see if that fixes the issue with classic snaps on wayland?
<ubot5> bug 1754693 in mesa (Ubuntu Disco) "Xwayland/Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in st_renderbuffer_delete() from _mesa_reference_renderbuffer_() [often when running Skype or Slack snaps]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754693
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> should that work in a VM?
<seb128> thx
<seb128> if wayland works in a VM I guess?
<kenvandine> that's what i was wondering :)
<Laney> does if you use qxl
<kenvandine> i'll see what i can do
<kenvandine> oh, the ppa is for cosmic :)
<kenvandine> i can just test that locally then
<seb128> Laney, just as a follow up, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-yrsa-rasa/+bug/1806712
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1806712 in fonts-yrsa-rasa (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-yrsa-rasa" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> nice
<seb128> kenvandine, willcooke: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/1803534/comments/11 :(
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1803534 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Backport uuid based cache file naming scheme" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> urgh
<willcooke> undo! undo!
<ricotz> is there package which contains "xdg-dbus-proxy" yet?
<seb128> hey ricotz, I don't know what that is and if we have a package for it
<kenvandine> seb128: it doesn't crash
<seb128> kenvandine, \o/, thanks for testing!
<jbicha> xdg-dbus-proxy was split out of flatpak. I believe mcatanzaro said it would be needed for the next major webkit release
<ricotz> seb128, it is a build-dep of webkit 2.23.x and seems to be a split-out from flatpak -- https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-dbus-proxy
<jbicha> ricotz: I suggest talking to smcv since he's done most of the flatpak packaging so far
<ricotz> jbicha, ;)
 * didrocks wonders how connecting a destroy signal (without doing anything in the callback) trigger a segfault in gjsâ¦
<kenvandine> popey: PR submitted fixing irccloud-desktop on wayland :)
<didrocks> interesting, the object is GC *before* the destroy signal is handled by gjs when app is closing
<seb128> js debugging fun? ;)
<didrocks> well js bindings debugging funâ¦ :/
<tseliot> Wimpress: hey, the issue you brought up about nvidia (the one on reddit) is fixed now (or, rather, worked around): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-410/+bug/1804738
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1804738 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-410 (Ubuntu) "package libnvidia-ifr1-410 410.78-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/doc/libnvidia-ifr1-410/changelog.Debian.gz', which is different from other instances of package libnvidia-ifr1-410:i386" [High,Fix released]
<Wimpress> tseliot: Thanks!
<tseliot> :)
<willcooke> night all
<jbicha> ximion: hi, I guess we're supposed to have appstream metadata for system-installed GNOME Shell extensions
<jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tweaks/merge_requests/25
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 25 in gnome-tweaks "extensions: Fix opening system installed extensions in gnome-software" [Opened]
<jbicha> do you want me to open an asgen bug?
<ximion> jbicha: the appstream metadata that GNOME extensions uses does not follow the standard at all and introduces a new toplevel component type of "shell-extension" that will never ever be added to the specification. Even hughsie agrees that it was a mistake to implement this, and that the GNOME Shell extensions should really be of type "addon" and extend "org.gnome.Shell".
<ximion> I could think about allowing something in that converts the metadata trsnaparently to how it actually should look like, but then the data wouldn't be of much use. I also don't want to add the component type to the AppStream reference implementation
<jbicha> addon makes sense
<ximion> so, ideally the metadata would just be standard-compliant and use AppStream's addon system properly - AFAIK the only thing this hasn't been done yet is lack of someone doing the work, as well as legacy compatibility issues
<jbicha> I'm thinking we should open a bug somewhere so that can be documented
<ximion> yes, probably
<ximion> I also think it's a solvable issue, but it just hasn't been a high enough priority yet
<ximion> hughsie and I actually want to reduce the delta between GNOME's AppStream and the spec, this shell-extension stuff is a quite significant piece
<ximion> (and a bit frustrating, since it wouldn't have needed to exist in the first place)
<jbicha> I'd been wondering why shell extensions UI didn't work well (when linked to from Tweaks). I didn't realize until now that it works better in Fedora
<jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/issues/222 was my original bug
<gitbot> GNOME issue 222 in gnome-software "shell-extensions: [3.25.91] --details incorrectly shows extension as available instead of installed" [Bugzilla, Closed]
<jbicha> do we want the bug in Launchpad or somewhere else?
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-12-05
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> oSoMoN,    \o
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<ricotz> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
<duflu> Hi ricotz
<ricotz> hi oSoMoN duflu
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, Laney, ricotz!
<Laney> hey didrocks ð
<Laney> how's it going?
<willcooke> goodly morlode
<duflu> Morning Laney, willcooke
 * duflu isn't sure if the protocol is to bow in this case
<didrocks> Laney: I'm fine, rebasing, rebasing, rebasing
<didrocks> yourself?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> hey duflu
<Laney> didrocks: yeah not bad, was fixing xpdf for poppler yesterday, got it built but it crashes now /o\
<Laney> so need to fix that
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> good morning Laney, willcooke
<Laney> hey oSoMoN
<didrocks> Laney: if it's building, ship it :p
<seb128> back, good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, ouais, et toi ? prÃªt pour le w.e ? ;)
<oSoMoN> hÃ©hÃ©, presque, me reste quâÃ  rÃ©parer le bug #1806847, et câest bon
<ubot5> bug 1806847 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in disco-proposed" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1806847
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, t'as une piste ?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<oSoMoN> seb128, jâai enfin une stacktrace
<seb128> cool
<oSoMoN> pas trÃ¨s explicite, mais jâavance
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, duflu, that g-s/firefox/focus issue is weird, why is it fixed in cosmic/disco if they don't have the suggested patch :/
<duflu> It's not, is it?
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, that's weird, I guess it doesn't manifest itself in cosmic/disco because other fixes hide it
<duflu> Oh, right
<duflu> I might abstain and unsubscribe from that bug. I don't really care about it. Was only triaging
<seb128> k
<oSoMoN> seb128, rebuilding libodfgen appears to fix that LO unit test crash
<seb128> nice that it fixes it
<oSoMoN> now to understand exactly why
<seb128> unnice that a rebuild is needed, sounds like an incompatible change in the stack/abi/something
<oSoMoN> yes
<oSoMoN> that looks vaguely similar to https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/commit/603074c5f2b84de8a24593faf807da784b040625
<seb128> willcooke, is sarah having an nvidia card? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1806165 look a bit like what you described the other day
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1806165 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Ubuntu 18.10 I get logged off on resume from suspend - Unregistered Authentication Agent for unix-session" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<willcooke> seb128, oh, don't know, I'll ask
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<seb128> popey, hey. Were you able to reproduce that steam controller/18.10 issue you raised (like do you have the hardware)? if so there is a kernel with a fix to test on bug #1798583, would be nice to give it a try
<ubot5> bug 1798583 in linux (Ubuntu) "the new Steam Controller driver breaks it on Steam" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798583
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<willcooke> seb128, I asked Laim to test that as well
<willcooke> *Liam
<willcooke> The OP
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<popey> I don't have any 18.10 machines I'm afraid.
<seb128> k, no worry
<seb128> willcooke, kenvandine, bug #1806697 looks worth having on some list, unsure the best way to flag though. It's probably not important enough for rls tagging? do we add those to the trello board or...?
<ubot5> bug 1806697 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Status of interface connections not properly updated in the UI" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1806697
<willcooke> Hm, I have a feeling that Robert fixed something like that recently
<willcooke> but yeah, I think we can assign it to him
<willcooke> and I'll import it to trello for good measure
<willcooke> no need to rls it IMO
<willcooke> https://trello.com/c/SO0NhQKt/174-bug1806697-status-of-interface-connections-not-properly-updated-in-the-ui
<seb128> thx
<seb128> willcooke, assigning to robert, good one :p
<seb128> should work if it's in trello, but he tends to ignore assigned bugs still :/
<willcooke> kenvandine, pls can you check in with Robert on this one? ^
<willcooke> Oh, I should assign it in Trello too....
<willcooke> done
<willcooke> oh crap, my car is due it's MOT test in 15 mins and I totally forgot.
<willcooke> Erm, back in a bnit
<Laney> k, no more xpdf crash
 * Laney uploads
<willcooke> back
<willcooke> seb128, Sarah's is Intel
<seb128> k
<seb128> willcooke, well, I guess it's going to be tricky to debug remote like this, let's see when you guys are at the office next week rather
<willcooke> yeah, totes
<oSoMoN> seb128, my local rebuild of libreoffice with a rebuilt libodfgen succeeded, any objection to me doing a no-change upload of libodfgen to disco?
<seb128> oSoMoN, no, then we can retry the libreoffice build I guess?
<oSoMoN> yes
<seb128> still it makes me feel uneasy than something changed that creates problem until no change rebuilds are done
<seb128> but I appreciate it's probably not easy to figure out what is going on there so I agree with the pragmatic solution
<oSoMoN> yeah, I commented on the bug and asked do_ko's opinion, let's see what his thoughts are
<seb128> k
<oSoMoN> ok, uploaded
<Laney> oSoMoN: fwiw (for next time), you can use 'build1' for a no-change rebuild and then it doesn't show up as having a delta to things like auto-sync
<oSoMoN> Laney, thanks for the tip
<Laney> with ubuntuX we have to manually sync it next time
<Laney> np!
<Laney> (dch --rebuild is good for this)
<oSoMoN> oh, I didn't know of --rebuild, handy
<mitya57> Hi all! I have fixed a couple of build failures in unity, but there is a remaining failure on armhf that I need help with: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3336/+build/15726931
<mitya57> âlibEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticateâ â does anyone know how to fix that?
<kenvandine> willcooke: sure
<seb128> mitya57, hey, I didn't reply in case someone else, but seems not. I don't know about this error maybe duflu (but it's over his work day hours) or tjaalton would though?
<mitya57> seb128: hi, thanks! I will wait for their response.
<willcooke> thx kenvandine
<tjaalton> mitya57: need xserver-xorg-legacy?
<mitya57> tjaalton: do you mean that just adding that build-dep may help?
<tjaalton> might
<mitya57> tjaalton: I will try, but why this is armhf-specific then?
<tjaalton> beats me
 * mitya57 tries nevertheless
<tjaalton> mitya57: did you try google?
<tjaalton> the hw doesn't have a dri2 capable driver
<tjaalton> so the test is buggy
<tjaalton> fix that
<mitya57> tjaalton: it worked in cosmic, but broke either before release or during disco cycle
<tjaalton> and was run on exact same hw?
<mitya57> tjaalton: since then I have tried to built it multiple times, so it failed with this error on multiple Launchpad buildd machines.
<mitya57> Also unity code does not mention dri2 anywhere, so I have no idea what needs fixing :(
<tjaalton> ok, well I don't have any arm hw so best to work around it in the test then
<tjaalton> but if you search for it all the hits are about lacking a dri2 capable driver
<mitya57> I wonder if using Xvfb instead of a custom X server run script would help here.
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> does anyone have a X1 carbon running 18.04.1
<seb128> hey czajkowski
<seb128> czajkowski, not me, but if you have a direct question maybe I can help anyway?
<seb128> Laney, did you start working on n-m/autopkgtest yet? I want to merge another change/add a disco branch but I don't want to create conflict/modify the vcs from under your feet (I do it now if you didn't start or I do it after you are done otherwise)
<Laney> yes I did
<Laney> just stage it
<czajkowski> seb128: clean install but none of the keys work on the functions so volume up down screen brightness etc
<czajkowski> seb128: ell btw :)
<seb128> Laney, k :)
<seb128> czajkowski, Ubuntu session with gnome-shell/x11?
<czajkowski> x11?
<seb128> czajkowski, could you share your journalctl for the current boot/session if you have the issue now?
<czajkowski> seb128: sure, is there a doc to follow ?
<seb128> journalctl -b 0 | pastebinit?
<czajkowski> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2F7vcPrG4S/
<seb128> czajkowski, your log has several of those commands
<seb128> Dec 04 09:54:21 sheldon pkexec[12870]: laura: Executing command [USER=root] [TTY=unknown] [CWD=/home/laura] [COMMAND=/usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-backlight-helper --set-brightness 318]
<seb128> czajkowski, what's the output if you try to enter that yourself?
<czajkowski> seb128: if I run the command it actually works in the terminal
<czajkowski> but by pressing the actual buttons it doesn't
<czajkowski> sorry for the delay
<k_alam> Does anyone know where Trevinho is ?
<willcooke> k_alam, on holiday
<k_alam> willcooke: Alright. Thanks.
<jbicha> oSoMoN: I think you're going to have to do a full rebuild of libreoffice because it will be entangled with hunspell
<oSoMoN> hrm, that's annoying
<jbicha> ð¿ but the good news is the hunspell transition otherwise looks ok
<willcooke> gotta go, night all
<seb128> czajkowski, weird, the log suggests it does issue the right command then :/
<seb128> czajkowski, what does xev tell when you use those keys (and the sound ones)?
<seb128> oSoMoN, libreoffice build on amd64, well done :)
<jbicha> too bad we have to build it again
<jbicha> but good job figuring out what was wrong :)
<seb128> jbicha, if it builds it's easy to rebuild it...
<seb128> the issue was to fix the test, not the builders
<seb128> oSoMoN, do you want to do a no-change-upload before calling it a week? or should I do that?
<jbicha> thanks
<jbicha> (specifically, amd64 now depends on new hunspell but the older builds on other arches don't)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, would you be able to update or sponsor an appstream-glib update in Debian?
<jbicha> sure
<robert_ancell> jbicha, which would you prefer - a patch or do it yourself?
<robert_ancell> I ask because sometimes I find small updates are actually faster to do yourself :)
<jbicha> oh I was thinking you were talking about snapd-glib
<jbicha> maybe you're talking about both? ð
<robert_ancell> jbicha, just appstream-glib this time. GNOME Software master and 3.30 both require the new version
<seb128> we should update snapd-glib though, weird that we are upstream for that and that it's outdated in current Ubuntu
<jbicha> ok, I can probably do appstream-glib myself; I like it when you do the snapd-glib packaging :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, sure, I'll do the snapd-glib one
<oSoMoN> I'll do a no-change upload of libreoffice now
<oSoMoN> jbicha, or should I wait?
<oSoMoN> it turns out I had one minor change to debian/control staged in the vcs (https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=12f049f851c9a97fdece58cb6bea5e9220d3f24c), so it's not gonna be a real no-change upload
<jbicha> oSoMoN: you're allowed to make changes :) please go ahead and upload though :)
<oSoMoN> done
<robert_ancell> jbicha, snapd-glib git branch updated
<jbicha> robert_ancell: both uploaded now :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, \o/ thanks!
<oSoMoN> LO now fails to build on ppc64el with a strange error, but it's late and I need some sleep
 * oSoMoN â bed
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-12-06
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> RAOF: Would egl-wayland have to start in universe even if we need it in main?
<duflu> It's not in either yet. Just wondering
<RAOF> Nah, but it does need a MIR done.
<duflu> Well, I'll test it when it's uploaded. In the least another mutter patch is required to depend on it
<tjaalton> duflu: it's uploaded but needs an AA to review from NEW
<duflu> tjaalton, no problem, thanks
<duflu> Not in a hurry
<RAOF> tjaalton: how are you dealing with the file conflicts with the NVIDIA driver?
<duflu> RAOF: Which bug do you mean? Once such fix went into nvidia-410 yesterday
<tjaalton> RAOF: I'm not, yet
<tjaalton> the debian upload got rejected because of those
<tjaalton> discussing it with anbe
<tjaalton> need to add conflicts for the ubuntu packages too
<tjaalton> tseliot: please drop libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.* from libnvidia-gl-*
<tjaalton> 390 and up
<tseliot> tjaalton: in disco?
<tjaalton> yes
<tseliot> ok
<tjaalton> but since it's not used anywhere, feel free to drop it universally
<tseliot> tjaalton: what do you use for wayland then?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks :)
<Laney> morning!!!!
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> I'm doing alright!
<Laney> was listening to people singing christmas songs last night
<seb128> nice
<Laney> getting in the mood
<Laney> or something...
<Laney> you?
<tjaalton> tseliot: the binary & headers from egl-wayland
<tjaalton> which is a new package
<seb128> here is was sinterklaas (Sint-Nicolaas) yesterday, which is the dutch traditional-big-events
<seb128> it's when kids gets presents, etc
<tjaalton> tseliot: right now you can't use it, since the nvidia blob doesn't come with the headers
<tjaalton> aiui
<seb128> we had a nice diner to celebrate and the kid got some new books, he seemed to like it :)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> nice
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> what's new?
<didrocks> nothing much, looking for the sun here
<didrocks> you?
<didrocks> not*
<Laney> no sun
<Laney> a nice comforting grey blanket
<didrocks> yeah, same here
<seb128> ditto
<seb128> oh, btw Will said he was feeling unwell cold/didn't sleep well/headaches so he's staying in bed a bit this morning and should be online later
 * Laney sends vegetables
 * seb128 sends soup
 * didrocks sends some alcohol
<Laney> sounds like a good care package
 * Laney sends in the screaming children
<didrocks> ahah
<tseliot> tjaalton: ok
<tseliot> tjaalton: so, no /usr/share/egl/egl_external_platform.d/10_nvidia_wayland.json either, right? Since it the contents point to "library_path" : "libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1"
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke, feeling better?
<willcooke> hi didrocks, yeah a bit, got some more sleep and then started reading email so I figured I might as well do it properly :)
<willcooke> No point lying in bed on my phone
<tjaalton> tseliot: right
<seb128> hey willcooke
<tseliot> tjaalton: should the nvidia packages recommend egl-wayland (libnvidia-egl-wayland1)?
<tjaalton> tseliot: no, the shell will
<tseliot> tjaalton: great
<tjaalton> depend on it
<tjaalton> once the support is there
<tseliot> right
 * Laney sux at nm
<Laney> jbicha: I saw https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/issues/89 - are you planning to work on it?
<gitbot> GNOME issue 89 in gnome-desktop "bwrap invocation breaks thumbnail creation on 32-bit systems" [Opened]
<jbicha> Laney: I think I'd prefer to hand it off to you if you have time to work on it
<Laney> guess so
<seb128> jbicha, is that launchpad bug private/security?
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3/+bug/1807127 that's the one I saw
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1807127 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu) "Fixing bug #1795668 breaks thumbnail creation on 32-bit Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> sorry, fixed my link now
<tseliot> tjaalton: the changes for 390 and 410 are in disco-proposed
<seb128> tseliot, is the changelog really different between the archs? or is that a bug in gzip or something producing different results using a same content?
<tseliot> seb128: I'm not sure what caused the problem, since the same source works in cosmic and older. I am not sure why the symlinking is causing problems in disco
<tseliot> seb128: I also think that, since only some packages are available on i386 vs amd64, the symlinking happens in packages on amd64 where it doesn't on i386. I think this is the problem
<seb128> could be
<tseliot> either way, I don't think it's a big tradeoff
<seb128> no, it's just that if there is a real bug at the gzip level we should fix it
<seb128> but gzip didn't change in disco yet, so probably not the case
<tseliot> yes, but I think we would have noticed it with other packages. Having multiarch with limited i386 support is a little unusual
<tseliot> right
<kenvandine> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xrdp/+bug/1749148
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1749148 in xrdp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] xrdp" [High,Incomplete]
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<tjaalton> tseliot: cool, thanks
<tseliot> :)
<seb128> shrug, libreoffice fails to build on ppc64el with "/<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/config_host.mk:83: *** missing separator.  Stop." now :/
<cyphermox> Laney: so, I finally got to have a look at the NM autopkgtests failing with the new dnsmasq
<cyphermox> I think that's actually bringing out a real bug in NM's ndisc handling
<cyphermox> plus there are lots of ndisc changes and 1.12.6 was released a few days ago
<cyphermox> perhaps the best thing to try would be to update to 1.12.6 and see if it likes the tests better
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dYXKfwCkZ9/
<seb128> hum
<seb128> my g-s-d cosmic SRU fails to build on armhf/arm64 (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/400457646/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-arm64.gnome-settings-daemon_3.30.1.2-1ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz) by failing to install mutter
<seb128> unsure how/where to debug that, does anyone has an idea?
<Laney> cyphermox: k, I don't have any idea what ndisc is, feel free to take over the bug please :-)
<Laney> it does reproduce properly in a cloud VM so you can verify that it fixes it locally
<seb128> cyphermox, Laney, I can do the n-m update in the next days if you want
 * Laney thought cyphermox was offering to do it but that might be wishful thinking :P
<seb128> :)
<seb128> Laney, any idea about that g-s-d build issue btw?
<Laney> how to reproduce?
<Laney> I would use a chdist for that normally
<Laney> if you have snakefruit access there's a handy thing on there to do it
<seb128> seems like I have
<seb128> I've tried on the porter box
<Laney> ubuntu-archive/bin/chdist apt-get cosmic-proposed-armhf --dry-run install mutter
<seb128> Laney, it's not a "build failure" by itself, just packages not installable in proposed for some reason (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/3.30.1.2-1ubuntu3)
<Laney> oops
<Laney> ~ubuntu-archive/bin/chdist apt-get cosmic-proposed-armhf --dry-run install mutter
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> this is to check like package installability and stuff
<seb128> ah, I didn't know about that
<seb128> great
<seb128> thx
<Laney> otherwise, for everybody else, you can make those things on your system too
<seb128>  mutter : Depends: gnome-settings-daemon but it is not going to be installed
<seb128> shrug
<seb128>  gnome-settings-daemon : Depends: gnome-settings-daemon-schemas (= 3.30.1.2-1ubuntu2) but 3.30.1.2-1ubuntu3 is to be installed
<Laney> circular dep?
<seb128> looks like it
<seb128> unsure why that hasn't been an issue before/how to fix it (and why it impacts only armhf/arm64 and not !amd64)
<Laney> interesting
<cyphermox> Laney: sorry, I don't really have the time for it... already it took me days to get to run autopkgtest to debug it
<Laney> probably they got built before amd64 was published
<Laney> k
<cyphermox> also, it's just a hunch, but the syslog messages look a lot like an endless loop trying to do ndisc stuff
<Laney> what is ndisc?
<cyphermox> it's the general network discovery code paths, a short way to say IPv6 magic to make sure the address you pick is fine to use and all of that
<Laney> i see
<seb128> Laney, cyphermox, k, let me do the update and see if that helps
<Laney> merci
<seb128> de rien
<seb128> unsure what I can do about that g-s-d issue and why it's only an issue now in that SRU? it sounds like it should have it any build before that was slower than amd64?
<Laney> it'd have to be built and published on amd64 before being picked up on the failing arch
<Laney> that's probably quite unusual
<Laney> how can we fix this circular issue though...
<seb128> yeah, unsure why the g-s-d b-d on mutter is there?
<seb128> is that for the tests?
<seb128> yeah, looks like it
<seb128> hum
<kenvandine> sergiusens: i've determined this is a regression in snapcraft.  With 3.0.1 it pulls in meson from the archive.  I have a locally built snap of snapcraft from a few weeks back that does fetch meson directly.  I'm going to try to bisect this to see where the regression was introduced.
<kenvandine> sergiusens: i'll file a bug
<Laney> seb128: probably if mutter depended on the schemas instead it would be ok
<Laney> maybe we should even do that split in debian for this reason
<seb128> right, that makes sense
<Laney> it's still circular but the = ${source:Version} part wouldn't be there
<kenvandine> sergiusens: sigh... the only scenario where it wouldn't pull meson in via pip is if base isn't set
<kenvandine> but base is set! and the same yaml builds fine with my local build of snapcraft
<willcooke> night all
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-12-07
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Oops, hi didrocks
<duflu> And with that, afk
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? ready for the w.e?
<duflu> seb128, I sense summer will start properly soon despite wearing a hoodie most of the day. Yeah, preparing for gardening and Xmas. You?
<seb128> I'm ok, slept a bit longer which is nice, let's see if that helps to kick the butt of that cold which is still annoying me
<duflu> Maybe sleep some more
<duflu> As with most treatments, keep going past when you think you're better
<seb128> k, I'm dropping offline for a bit, going to a coworking place with some GNOME guys today
<seb128> (stop on the way to get coffee ;)
<duflu> I forget what linux.org used to link to, but it looks hijacked
<duflu> Maybe they own it. Don't know
<duflu> Just a thinko when I meant to go to kernel.org
<Laney> hey, happy friday!
<duflu> Hi hi Laney
<duflu> Laney
<Laney> Laney
<Laney> what's up duflu duflu
<Laney> just cycled to the shops in a storm
<Laney> moist sox
<duflu> Laney, going round in circles with prexisting upstream MRs, but I am determined to not work into Friday night this time
<Laney> rebasing fun?
<Laney> review fun?
<duflu> Rebasing, fixing, rewording
<Laney> ð
<Laney> fearnon seems to be a bit more active lately
<andyrock> good morning!
<duflu> Morning Laney
<duflu> Argh
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<duflu> Laney, can we backport the fix for bug 1774957 to bionic?
<ubot5> bug 1774957 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Network icons in status menu disappearing" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774957
<Laney> duflu: I should think so - are you up for submitting it?
<Laney> ideally a cherry-pick MR
<duflu> Laney, I was speaking hypothetically. It doesn't affect me and I am finishing up for the week. Just accepting the nomination would be good thanks
<Laney> then it'll need an assignee
<Laney> Actually this is in 3.28 so what we really want is a release
<seb128> hey again desktop, from the co-working space
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> who's with you this time?
<seb128> Laney, hey! Hans, Carlos and Mark/Patrick from rh who I don't know/I don't think do GNOME
<Laney> ahhh outnumbered
<seb128> :)
<Laney> is carlos in .nl?
<seb128> yeah, he's living in Leiden for a few years
<seb128> apparently Spain is too hot in summer or something :)
<Laney> heheh
<andyrock> seb128: have you asked Carlos about osk on xorg?
<seb128> andyrock, hey, not yet, I wanted to check with your first what issues we still had on our list and their status
<seb128> like waiting for code reviews, input, other
<seb128> can you make a summary for me? ;)
<andyrock> yep I'll send you an email :)
<seb128> thx
<andyrock> seb128: done!
<seb128> andyrock, thx
 * Laney stares at libreoffice
<seb128> the build issue?
<Laney> ye
<seb128> that one doesn't make any sense to me (at least from the log, I didn't do any poking)
<Laney> checking for explicit CFLAGS... -g1 -O3 -O2 -fdebug-prefix-map=/<<PKGBUILDDIR>>=. -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/tree/patches/debian-opt.diff?h=ubuntu-disco-6.1
<Laney> echo laney@nightingecho '-g1 -O3 -O2 -fdebug-prefix-map=/<<PKGBUILDDIR>>=. -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security' | grep -E -o '\-O[0-3]'                                                                      ~
<Laney> -O3
<Laney> -O2
<Laney> that patch doesn't handle multiple -O in CFLAGS
<seb128> did the toolchain changed recently?
<Laney> dunno
<seb128> it built a few days ago
<Laney> just analysed the actual bug
<seb128> k
<Laney> previous build didn't have -O3 -O2 there but I don't know where that comes from yet
<Laney> ah yeah from dpkg
<Laney> this seems wrong
<Laney> (dpkg-buildflags)
<Laney> new dpkg broke this
<Laney> https://git.dpkg.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/commit/?id=d5374bc618310917557daa9c9ac2f4930515a0b2
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, I failed the fontconfig SRU over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/1803534/comments/12
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1803534 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Backport uuid based cache file naming scheme" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> seb128: ok, thanks
<kenvandine> i'm actually looking at that right now
<kenvandine> seb128: i think that issue in the SRU occurs in cosmic
<kenvandine> so we backported some bug... i think
<kenvandine> firefox has been causing me lots of grief for a while now, and it looks like the same thing as reported in the SRU verification
<kenvandine> i think it's been going on since i upgraded to cosmic
<seb128> kenvandine, it's possible, my comment was the missing symbol/invalid depends though
<kenvandine> ah... well there was a potential regression reported
<seb128> I know, I hit the depends issue while trying to reproduce the cpu one :p
<kenvandine> missing symbol... that's surprising
<kenvandine> i don't recall lintian complainging
<seb128> well, it went away when I installed libfontconfig1 from proposed
<seb128> but fontconfig should depends on the new version if it needs it
<kenvandine> yeah, that makes sense
<seb128> e.g "sudo apt install fontconfig" should have pulled in the lib
<seb128> rather than failing in postinst and letting my dpkg angry
<kenvandine> the cpu one doesn't happen right away, in my experience
<kenvandine> but it seems every couple days i have to kill firefox
<seb128> I can trigger it directly with what the user described
<seb128> log in
<seb128> start firefox
<seb128> sudo synaptic
<seb128> I've 2 Web Content process fighting for cpu
<kenvandine> firefox snap or deb?
<seb128> I can't even use the machine
<seb128> deb
<seb128> standard install, it's a test machine pretty much stock install
<kenvandine> the Web Content process pegging the cpu is what i see and i suspect it's related to some apt update happening
<seb128> well in my case it's not apt
<seb128> I started a new session
<seb128> sudo synaptic is enough
<seb128> firefox is looping in futex and opening fonts
<kenvandine> i installed synapitc a bit ago, will test that scenario as soon as a build i have going finishes :)
<seb128> it stops when I close synaptic
<kenvandine> interesting
<kenvandine> i thought it might be something triggering a cache refresh
<seb128> could be
 * kenvandine decides not to wait
<kenvandine> oh sigh... can't run sudo synaptic on wayland :(
<kenvandine> (synaptic:10712): Gtk-WARNING **: 11:11:09.968: cannot open display: :0
<seb128> kenvandine, it looks like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=909818
<ubot5> Debian bug 909818 in fontconfig "firefox: Web Content is eating nearly 100% CPU, several of them" [Grave,Fixed]
<seb128> which is https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/fontconfig/commit/5f12f564
<seb128> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=909818#90 has details
<ubot5> Debian bug 909818 in fontconfig "firefox: Web Content is eating nearly 100% CPU, several of them" [Grave,Fixed]
<kenvandine> seb128: i had the SRU version built and installed on cosmic and can reproduce the problem
<kenvandine> but downgrading to cosmic version it's fine
<kenvandine> so yeah, we backported that bug :)
<kenvandine> i wonder what synaptic is doing to trigger that
<seb128> kenvandine, it's not synaptic, sudo gedit does the same, I guess it's gtk under sudo
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> seb128: i'll add the depends and patch to fix that issue
<seb128> great
<Laney> bumping the shlibs version in d/control is probably the correct way to do that
<Laney> rules*
<kenvandine> Laney: yeah
<kenvandine> that makes more sense :)
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, do you know if hw-detect is using in ubiquity? wondering if https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/hw-detect/merge_requests/2/diffs would work for ubiquity as well or only d-i
<gitbot> Debian Installer issue (Merge request) 2 in hw-detect "hw-detect.sh: install open-vm-tools when running under VMware Virtual Platform" [Opened]
<didrocks> there is something with probert, but not the same one used in subiquity
<seb128> well that's a Debian PR, so d-i, not subiquity
<seb128> I just wonder if that would give us the package install working for free on ubiquity as from today as well
<didrocks> yep, ubiquity uses hd-detect
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> to load firmwares and such
<didrocks> unsure if this uses package install though
<seb128> right, I saw it was writting the modprobe etc but I'm unsure if the package install would apply
<seb128> thx for replying didrocks :)
<didrocks> yw! I wonder how much this is interesting for this installer though, as the new one won't use d-i as per spec
<Laney> I'm not sure without testing, sorry
<Laney> xnox or cyphermox might though
<Laney> open-vm-tools would need to be seeded of course
<seb128> right
<seb128> thx didrocks Laney
<seb128> k, enough co-working, time to 'commute' back :) have a nice w.e desktopers!
<willcooke> see you seb128
<Laney> bye!!!
<cyphermox> moo?
<cyphermox> good weekend seb128
<seb128> thx, you too guys!
<Laney> cyphermox: that merge proposal seb128 linked, would it work on ubiquity if opem-vm-tools was seeded or do we not run that bit of hw-detect there?
<cyphermox> we don't run hw-detect I think
<cyphermox> but if it's seeded, it should just work
<Laney> it'd be in the pool or something I guess
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> well, seeded it will be on the rootfs
<cyphermox> actually installed, as opposed to being on the pool on the CD
<cyphermox> unless you want to seed it in live-share or something, but why
<Laney> so it can be conditionally installed
<Laney> like that MR does
<Laney> live seed probably
<Laney> so indeed not pool
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-02
<jibel> good morning everyone
<duflu> Morning jibel
 * duflu runs to the shop
<jibel> hi duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> duflu, welcome back!
<duflu> oSoMoN, hi and thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning did
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hello duflu, good holidays?
<duflu> didrocks, yes thanks. I successfully forgot what work was. How are you?
<didrocks> duflu: quite busy, but interesting time! Crazy how the temperature went down in a short while and really feeling winter now
<dupondje> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1844523 Any chance to get this fixed? :) Hitting it daily :(
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1844523 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "Dock hidden after lock/unlock" [Undecided,New]
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
<oSoMoN> and good morning kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey oSoMoN
<hellsworth> hi all o/
<didrocks> hey hellsworth, oSoMoN, kenvandine!
<sil2100> kenvandine: hey!
<sil2100> kenvandine: it seems that your eoan fwupd SRU is made fwupd uninstallable (and therefore my image builds are now failing!)
<kenvandine> hey sil2100
<kenvandine> ugh
<sil2100> kenvandine: looks like a missing fwupd-signed?
<sil2100>  fwupd-signed : Depends: fwupd (= 1.2.10-1ubuntu2) but 1.2.10-1ubuntu3 is to be installed
<kenvandine> oh, crap
<sil2100> kenvandine: I don't know much about fwupd, but I suppose every upload of that requires a dep-bump of -signed
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i'll fix it asap
<sil2100> Thanks! I can review/approve those if they're available ;)
<kenvandine> sil2100: i uploaded fwupd-signed
<sil2100> kenvandine: looking o/
<sil2100> kenvandine: could you re-upload with the bug number attached? For clarity ;)
<oSoMoN> hey sil2100! did you see my question earlier today on #ubuntu-devel about thunderbird 60.9.1 being FTBFS in {xenial,disco}-proposed ?
<kenvandine> sil2100: sure
<sil2100> oSoMoN: ah, sorry! Possibly missed it, let me look at the backlog
<kenvandine> sil2100: uploaded
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-03
<kenvandine> kyrofa: please don't forget my darktable PR :)
<kyrofa> kenvandine, I haven't, don't worry!
<duflu> Oh hi kenvandine. How goes?
<kenvandine> Hey duflu, welcome back!
<duflu> Thanks. I struggled to stay away through yesterday but hopefully today is better
<duflu> -away +awake
<duflu> Self contradictory perhaps
<jibel> good morning everyone
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks & oSoMoN
<didrocks> salut jibel
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> good morning jibel oSoMoN didrocks and seb128
<didrocks> salut seb128, bon week-end prolongÃ© ?
<didrocks> and hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, lut didrocks, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> good thanks, nice relaxing long weekend :)
<marcustomlinson> yourself?
<didrocks> Ã§a va :)
<seb128> marcustomlinson, same here, I took monday as a remaining swap from Vancouver :)
<marcustomlinson> nice :)
<oSoMoN> good morning jibel, didrocks, marcustomlinson
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<jibel> hello oSoMoN
<seb128> jamesh, weekly discourse post?
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<kenvandine> Hey seb128
<seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you?
<kenvandine> Good, and you?
<seb128> I'm good thx :)
<marcustomlinson> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey marcustomlinson
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: did you make any progress on getting the calendar and contacts snaps updated?
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: I did get 'somewhere'
<marcustomlinson> it's moving further and further in the build process
<marcustomlinson> pealing the onion
<marcustomlinson> Another day perhaps
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: ok
<kenvandine> using the gnome-3-34 build snap?
<marcustomlinson> yes
<marcustomlinson> I have to build e-d-s
<marcustomlinson> that's where the pain is
<kenvandine> yeah
<marcustomlinson> lots of moving parts
<marcustomlinson> anyway, you know how it is, chipping away slowly
<Wimpress> Time appropriate greetings desktoppers
<oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
<didrocks> sounds like the start of a podcast I'm listening from time to time :)
<Wimpress> didrocks: :-D
<marcustomlinson> which podcast, Wimpress is on them all
<Wimpress> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  3 14:31:11 2019 UTC.  The chair is Wimpress. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic:
<Wimpress> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu, hellsworth, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, laney (out), marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter (out), trevinho (out), robert_ancell
<kenvandine> o/
<marcustomlinson> \o
<oSoMoN> _o/
<Trevinho> o/
 * Wimpress blinks
<Wimpress> Says here Trevinho is PTO ;-)
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> o/
<jibel> \o
<seb128> Wimpress, here being?
<seb128> he was off yesterday, did I put that on the wrong day in the holidays calendar?
<Trevinho> yesterday I was
<Wimpress> My calendar must be wrong then.
 * marcustomlinson winks
<seb128> I probably screwed the event, fixed
<seb128> sorry :)
<Wimpress> Is all fine.
<Wimpress> Right, shall we?
<hellsworth> here
<Wimpress> o/
<seb128> gogogo
<Wimpress> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> Well, that one is all clear.
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> Trevinho: Is this one suitable for bionic?
<Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1793496
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1793496 in mutter (Ubuntu Bionic) "scaling changes when closing/re-opening the lid" [Undecided,New]
<Trevinho> Wimpress: well, I've proposed a PPA for that, that isn't fixing apparently
<Trevinho> so... while coudl be nice to have, I wasn't able to identify what fixed it in my other branch
<Wimpress> OK
<seb128> Wimpress, where did you find that one?
<Trevinho> so it would need some more work
<Wimpress> seb128: desktop-packages in rls-bb-tracking
<seb128> Wimpress, we usually reviews unassigned one in that list
<seb128> that one is assigned to Marco?
<Wimpress> Yep. Just noticed that one was 'New'
<seb128> ah
<Wimpress> OK, to move on?
<seb128> sure
<Wimpress> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> All god.
<Wimpress> All good
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> That all looks in order too.
<seb128> :-)
<Wimpress> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> Is good.
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<marcustomlinson> there's a chromium bug in unknown: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/1834671
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1834671 in chromium (Ubuntu Eoan) "TLSv1.3 client certificate authentication with renegotiation unsupported in browsers" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<marcustomlinson> not sure if that's for us. oSoMoN?
<oSoMoN>  IÂ already commented on it a while back, not sure there's anything else to do for now
<Wimpress> oSoMoN: Has marked that "Fix released" for Firefox.
<Wimpress> So is Chromium fixed or no action requireD?
<oSoMoN> not implemented in chromium until the spec is clarified
<oSoMoN> so nothing we can do about it
<Wimpress> OK, thanks.
<Wimpress> All OK to move on?
<marcustomlinson> so we should not be tracking it right
<oSoMoN> indeed
<oSoMoN> let me remove the distro tasks for chromium
<Wimpress> Thanks.
<oSoMoN> done
<Wimpress> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> All in hand there.
<Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> Also, all fine.
<Wimpress> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Wimpress> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Wimpress> That looks way better than last week :-D
<seb128> yeah, I've been busy on trying to get that list down (still on it)
<hellsworth> how do we know if any of these are not being looked at?
<seb128> we need someone to stay on top and know the status
<seb128> which is usually Laney or me
<hellsworth> ah ok thanks then :)
<seb128> from the list xorg needs some work
<seb128> oSoMoN, is firefox/armhf on your list?
<Wimpress> Should we track these in Trello?
<seb128> firejail is a falloutof i386 being deleted
<oSoMoN> seb128, it is
<seb128> Wimpress, we do, we even have a tag for proposed-migration :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<Wimpress> AAh, that tag :-)
<seb128> I think the list is in shape
<seb128> things are either being handled/already in trello, or not us
<Wimpress> seb128 oSoMoN Do we have clear path for dealing with regression due to i386 not being available?
<seb128> (the bottom of the list mostly i386 fallout waiting to vorlon to wake up and do his magic)
<Wimpress> OK
<seb128> Wimpress, @i386, not really
<seb128> let chat about that in our next meeting in an hour if you want
 * Wimpress makes a note.
<Wimpress> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-12-03 | Current topic: AOB
<Wimpress> Anyone have anything else they want to discuss?
<jibel> o/
<Wimpress> jibel: Is that a "Hello" or a request to discuss something?
<jibel> there is a MIR in progress for zsys with no movement at all cf bug 1839271
<ubot5> bug 1839271 in zsys (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zsys" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839271
<jibel> it was me looking for the bug #
<jibel> Wimpress, seb128 could you help getting some traction from the security team?
<Wimpress> jibel: Yes.
<seb128> thx Wimpress
<jibel> Thanks
<jibel> I'm just worried that with xmas break it won't be sorted before new year
<Wimpress> I'll do what I can to get it looked at.
<didrocks> thx a lot Wimpress :)
<didrocks> (the MIR was opened in August FTR)
<Wimpress> So I see.
<Wimpress> Anyone else for AOB?
<Wimpress> Going...
<hellsworth> nothing from me
<Wimpress> Going...
<seb128> seems like a wrap then!
<Wimpress> Gone!
<Wimpress> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Thanksgiving Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  3 14:57:51 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-12-03-14.31.moin.txt
<seb128> thx!
<didrocks> thx!
<marcustomlinson> thanks Wimpress
<Wimpress> Thanks everyone.
<hellsworth> thanks
<oSoMoN> thanks everyone
<Wimpress> Great work clearing the backlogs team!
<seb128> :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: hey... (i don't see you in debian-gnome)... so, maybe you should also update https://salsa.debian.org/debian/libfprint/blob/5680318dd710dd71005f4409083c60fced746c1e/debian/libfprint2.postinst to match the new included drivers (mostly synaptics IDs)
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry, looks like I closed the tab by mistake
<seb128> Trevinho, ah, thanks for pointing that out, maybe comment on the mr?
<seb128> Trevinho, also annoying that you are submitting a conflicting mp at the same time... :)
<Trevinho> seb128: ahah, right. I thought I should base mine on yours, but gitlab has not such thing
<Trevinho> but the conflict is probably auto-merging anyways or quiiiick merge.
<Trevinho> anyways was mostly a RFC since I had that for long time locally
<seb128> Trevinho, one thing that launchpad does better! :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, do you expect the tool to be useful for debugging/asking bug reporters?
<Trevinho> seb128: it is for testing sensors with some more low-level infos
<seb128> Trevinho, right, well the question as to know if it's only useful to hackers (in which case it's probably something you should build yourself) or if that's something we might want to hand to users as well
<Trevinho> well, I would say would be useful for bug reporting msotly
<Trevinho> mostly*
<Trevinho> there's a flatpack for that iirc too
<seb128> k, then a new binary would be nice I guess
<hellsworth> kenvandine: or anyone.. every now and then when i try to build a snap i get a multipass error but launching a rebuild goes on just fine. this time i can't get past the multipass error. is there a known solution besides rebooting?
<hellsworth> snapcraft-gedit: timed out waiting for response. An error occurred with the instance when trying to launch with 'multipass': returned exit code 2. Ensure that 'multipass' is setup correctly and try again.
<hellsworth> this is after 'snapcraft clean' and 'snapcraft'
<kenvandine> race condition i guess
<kenvandine> i've hit that a couple times
<hellsworth> but it happens every time now
<kenvandine> sergiusens: ^^
<kenvandine> i'm using multipass from beta, not edge
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: I get this sometimes
<hellsworth> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/w3zwr6rG6b/
<jibel> delete the vm and try again? I had it too and it usually fixes it or just a retry
<marcustomlinson> I multipass delete the vm
<hellsworth> well snapcraft clean deletes the vm
<sergiusens> kenvandine: hellsworth we haven't changed anything in a while, maybe get Saviq?
<marcustomlinson> what jibel said
<jibel> I use beta too
<sergiusens> hellsworth: is the error presented during build?
<kenvandine> beta has been pretty solid for me
<sergiusens> hellsworth: try giving the instance more RAM
<hellsworth> well i just tried 'multipass delete snapcraft-gedit' followed by 'snapcraft' and hit the same issue again
<hellsworth> grumble grumble
<hellsworth> how do you give the instance more ram?
<hellsworth> sergiusens: yes the error is presented when trying to build gedit with just 'snapcraft'
<Saviq> hellsworth: `multipass delete` does not actually remove the instance
<Saviq> unless you `multipass purge` after, or `â¦delete --purge
<Saviq> `
<kenvandine> multipass delete -p snapcraft-gedit
<hellsworth> alrighty let's try with --purge
<Saviq> `snapcraft clean` is really what you should use
<hellsworth> ah ok well i've been using 'snapcraft clean' before trying with multipass delete..
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: SNAPCRAFT_BUILD_ENVIRONMENT_MEMORY=4G snapcraft
<hellsworth> thanks marcustomlinson
<hellsworth> what's the default ram for a multipass vm?
<kenvandine> hellsworth: what version of multipass are you using?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: but I doubt highly you need to do that
<hellsworth> 0.8.1multipass             0.8.1                         1230   latest/beta
<kenvandine> ok, same here
<Saviq> hellsworth: I know this sounds wrong on a number of levels, but have you tried turning it off and on again?
<kenvandine> lol
<marcustomlinson> haha
<hellsworth> by it you mean my computer? i mean i could but rebooting is such a pain
<hellsworth> and if i i have to i will
<hellsworth> but i wanted to ask here first if there was some other solution first
<hellsworth> yeah setting the ram to 4G doesn't make a difference
<hellsworth> ok fine i'll reboot
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: so you tried multipass delete -p snapcraft-gedit?
<kenvandine> maybe just restarting multipass
<Saviq> hellsworth: let's break it down, does `multipass launch snapcraft:core18` work?
<hellsworth> oh there's an idea. i'll try restarting multipass
<hellsworth> ok haven't restarted multipass
<hellsworth> 'multipass launch snapcraft:core18' seems to just hang there with no stdout
<Saviq> hellsworth: that does suggest the daemon is stuck
<Saviq> hellsworth: `sudo gdb -p $( pidof multipassd )` could give you a clue where it went
<hellsworth> ok restarting multipassd
<Saviq> and yeah `snap restart multipass` should resolve that
<hellsworth> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tDtH5TXY8s/
<hellsworth> i restarted multipass - seemed to restart successfully. but then when i tried to build with 'snapcraft' i see this again in journalctl
<hellsworth> so will check the gdb command to look for more info
<marcustomlinson> snapcraft --use-lxd
 * marcustomlinson runs away
<hellsworth> lol
 * kenvandine prefers multipass :)
<hellsworth> NO! MULTIPASS SHOULD WORK DAMNIT!
<marcustomlinson> yeah I'm kidding
<marcustomlinson> I was running from Saviq's backhand
<hellsworth> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/P26t27cJv8/
<hellsworth> Saviq: ^
<hellsworth> warning: File "/snap/core/8039/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libthread_db-1.0.so" auto-loading has been declined by your `auto-load safe-path' set to "$debugdir:$datadir/auto-load".
<hellsworth> oh wait that might be gdb setup on my system
<hellsworth> idk what i'm doing
<hellsworth> should i just reboot?
<Saviq> hellsworth: those errors are benign
<hellsworth> is any of this debugging valuable?
<marcustomlinson> restart the machine
<hellsworth> ok fine. reboot it is.
<marcustomlinson> at least rule it out I guess
<hellsworth> well i rebooted, did a 'snapcraft clean' and a 'snapcraft' and am hitting the same issue
<hellsworth> what in the world happened
<hellsworth> time to delete multipass and reinstall it
<sergiusens> hellsworth: if you need to remove, make it not take a snapshot or it will take forever
<sergiusens> hellsworth: even before doing so, ask Saviq if there is any information that could be useful in the datastore to analyze what went wrong
<hellsworth> well i already issued 'snap remove multipass'
<hellsworth> and yes the snapshot is taking forever
<Saviq> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/automatic-snapshot-opt-out/12131
<sergiusens> Saviq: how about using the remove hook like in microk8s?
<hellsworth> thanks Saviq. the --purge flag is very nice to have
<hellsworth> removing multipass with --purge and reinstalling it seems to have fixed my problem
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: out of curiosity did you try multipass delete -p snapcraft-gedit?
<hellsworth> yep
<marcustomlinson> ah ok, maybe I missed that earlier
<marcustomlinson> interesting
<hellsworth> well i did it with the full --purge rather than -p
<hellsworth> but same thing
<Saviq> sergiusens: and remove the users' instances?
<Saviq> we do have one that drops the cache, but dropping instances themselvesâ¦ not without asking :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, I've made snap-store-3-34 on Community/Ubuntu in GNOME GitLab. I *think* I've got all the changes from the current snap-store branch. Can you do a quick test before I replace the current branch with it (I'll make a backup of that in case we need it).
<kenvandine> I cherry picked a few commits that were missing
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: ^^
<kenvandine> It mostly works
<kenvandine> It's currently built in the edge channel
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, which commits? I'm not seeing anything new.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, oh, there's two things I think need fixing 1. disable the scroll on the banner and 2. we need to resolve the categories now they no longer collapse.
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: try installing something
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, working here!?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, your HEAD is 90cff77d1421e6c7cd704ed0d21d8b183378efca, right?
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: oh... nope
<kenvandine> pulling gives me conflicts :/
<kenvandine> i had pushed at lunchtime :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, oh, whoops. I might have overwritten your changes :/
<kenvandine> no worries... i can get them back if needed :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, can you push your local branch somewhere and I'll merge it in
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: it looks like you got the changes i had except the packaging changes
<kenvandine> i can fix that up
<robert_ancell> ok, cool.
<kenvandine> i'll fix that up and push it in a few
<seb128> robert_ancell, kenvandine, do we get a less weird workflow for that vcs now? ;-)
<seb128> like normal gbp style on launchpad?
<robert_ancell> seb128, for the snap-store branch or all the g-s branches?
<seb128> g-s in Ubuntu
<robert_ancell> seb128, the g-s branches are all in LP, but the GNOME branches are used to rebase and generate the patches.
<seb128> also might be worth doing it for the snap-store as well if you want others in the team to be able to fix things when needed
<seb128> right
<seb128> which nobody in the team outside of you understand how to do an update to that package :-/
<kenvandine> i think the snap-store branch should not be rebased, we don't need to generate patches
<kenvandine> i don't either :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, but what do we do when we get to 3.36?
<kenvandine> i'd like to be able to just merge :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, then how do we know which changes are still applied against upstream?
<seb128> gbp import-orig! :)
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: git diff?
<kenvandine> :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, right, so then the Debian patches just becomes one patch? I mean I think that makes sense but doesn't seem the way we're doing things.
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: actually, once we switch to the snap we can make drop the patches from the deb
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, yeah, this is easy in the snap case for sure.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, seb128 let's add this one to the Frankfurt list to resolve :)
<seb128> +1
<robert_ancell> I'm used to too much travel, but Frankfurt currently feels like too far away!
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: after installing a snap, try switching channels
<kenvandine> it shows the unconfined warning
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, always? even when not unconfined?
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: i've pushed my changes
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: yes
<kenvandine> it doesn't show it before installing the snap
<kenvandine> after install, switch channels
<kenvandine> you'll see the warning
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, which snap were you using?
<kenvandine> i've reproduced it with several.  I just tested with wethr
<robert_ancell> I think we want to change the source labels in the snap-store, so it's clearer they're channels.
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> and by default it says "Ubuntu" even when only the snap plugin is enabled
<robert_ancell> yes
<kenvandine> so it did change channels for me
<kenvandine> but shows the install button and the unconfined warning
<robert_ancell> oh, weird - it's definitely strictly confined in all cases.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-04
<jibel> good morning everyone
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> morning duflu jibel didrocks oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> duflu: welcome back :)
<marcustomlinson> how was the time off?
<duflu> marcustomlinson, thanks. Bumpy start as someone severed a fibre link yesterday and I went offline
<duflu> marcustomlinson, vacation was good. I forgot what work was
<marcustomlinson> haha yeah, know the feeling :P
<marcustomlinson> you need a holiday from your holiday
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers!
<didrocks> hey seb128
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, how duflu, how are you today?
<duflu> seb128, going OK. You?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks, you?
<seb128> I just blocked my back while dropping the kid :-/ But otherwise I'm good...
<ricotz> good morning desktopers :)
 * duflu wonders if "dropping the kid" is worse than hurting your back, or you mean something less dramatic than dropping
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I meant leaving him at the daycare
<duflu> Yeah OK
<duflu> Morning ricotz
<seb128> I blocked my back while getting him out of the stroller
<duflu> I didn't do enough pilates when on holiday and ended up in extra pain. Had to fashion lumbar support out of an inflight magazine at one point
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128 and ricotz
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<seb128> duflu, :-(
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good thanks!
<duflu> jamesh, your pulseaudio branches snap-policy-* are now clones of the main branches. Can I remove them?
<duflu> Or vice versa
<jamesh> duflu: sure. I can do it if you want.
<duflu> jamesh, I have it open so will do it
<jamesh> duflu: thanks
<duflu> I also added tags
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson, seb128, ricotz
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment va aujourd'hui ?
<seb128> hey jamesh, one day later but weekly summary post? ;)
<jamesh> duflu: when I was preparing those updates, I couldn't get git-buildpackage to work, with it complaining about local changes in the tree.  Has it ever worked for you with that repo?
<jamesh> seb128: I'll sort it out.
<seb128> jamesh, thx
<seb128> oSoMoN, I see that a retry make firefox/armhf happy :)
<duflu> jamesh, no idea. I don't use such things because the branch is a proper full branch that's traditionally packagable
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, merci!
<duflu> with debuilt
<duflu> with debuild
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, it seems that the armhf failures are more likely to happen when the autopkgtest infrastructure is under load
<jamesh> duflu: sure, but that's generally what a GBP repo looks like too
<jamesh> IIRC, the upstream debian repo is GBP buildable
<seb128> oSoMoN, looks like firefox has migrated now :-)
<duflu> I try to avoid any extraneous tooling but if you want to add support for that you are free to commit to the branches
<oSoMoN> seb128, I have a bug open and I'll keep investigating, but until then I'll use the "retry when not under load" strategy
<seb128> oSoMoN, sounds fine :)
<seb128> thx
<seb128> on that note, changing location, brb
<Wimpress> Good morning desktoppers o/
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<marcustomlinson> hey jamesh and Wimpress
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, does this look weird to you: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/DP28b3MVzF/
<kenvandine> jdstrand: I think installing flatpak itself adds it's dirs to XDG_DATA_DIRS
<jdstrand> ok, I guess that is enough for me to investigate
<jdstrand> kenvandine: I can't think of a reason where we would reasonably allow that, can you?
<kenvandine> We shouldn't want that, no
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: could you add me as contributor to the gnome-3-34 snaps sdk and platform
<kenvandine>   marcustomlinson done
<marcustomlinson> Thanks!
<hellsworth> good (late) morning desktopers :)
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi all o/
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-05
<jibel> hi everyone
<duflu> Hi jibel
<jibel> good morning duflu, how are  you?
<duflu> Going OK. You, jibel?
<jibel> doing good.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> bonjour didrocks & oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel & didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel & oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<jibel> morning Wimpress
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<seb128> goooood morning desktopers!
<duflu> Hi there seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how is it going today?
<duflu> seb128, going warm. You?
<seb128> going cold :-)
<seb128> I played tennis outdoor yesterday, that was great but around 3Â°C
<duflu> Oh, 42 degrees tomorrow
<duflu> seb128, I think 3 degrees is genuinely too cold for tennis
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> also I though I had lost my phone and lost an hour going back to places to find it, but it had just dropped from my pocket in the car and slided in between the seat and the middle of the card in a small gap
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va :)
<duflu> Remember to ask the flight attendant for help
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<RikMills> didrocks: you introduced pyromaths in 2011. that is python2 and python-qt4 in that old version. do you want to keep in in Ubuntu? there looks to be a python3/pyqt5 upstream version now
<didrocks> RikMills: if there is no rdepends, I don't think I have interest in them, so fine for removal if nobody wants to update it.
<marcustomlinson> seb128: sorry, quick school run. Iâm good thanks. Yourself?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good as well!
<RikMills> didrocks: I could perhaps update it, but have no inclination to maintain it, so I think removal it is. can be installed with pip from upstream anyway I think
<RikMills> thanks
<didrocks> RikMills: agreed, thanks!
<didrocks> :)
<duflu> Huh. Did we just bounce all of Europe?
<sil2100> Trevinho: hey! Could you verify LP: #1756826 for bionic if you have a moment? It's blocking gnome-software going out
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1756826 in nautilus (Ubuntu Bionic) "hangs when remote search provider performs expensive operation" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756826
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, thx for the usbguard testing/debugging/reporting!
<hellsworth> good morning folks!
<jdstrand> seb128: yw, sorry it took so long to do that for you
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-06
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<jibel> good morning tout le monde
<didrocks> salut jibel :)
<duflu> Hi jibel
<seb128> goood morning desktopers, happy friday!
<didrocks> hey seb128, happy friday
<seb128> lut didrocks, to you too! how are you?
<marcustomlinson> morning didrocks duflu jibel seb128
<seb128> how was the fest evening in Lyon?
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> not too shabby. you seb128?
<didrocks> seb128: fine, headed deep in tests again
<seb128> cooold, but good otherwise, I'm stopping for coffee on my way to go coworking today
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> didrocks, http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/d/docker-libkv/focal/amd64 the retry with the new etcd worked
<duflu> Morning seb128 and marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey duflu, happy friday! how are you?
<duflu> seb128, almost over the jetlag and within a couple of days of catching up on email. So mostly positive. You?
<seb128> the proposed migration pages as big enough to make firefox unhappy at times :-/
<didrocks> seb128: nice!
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<duflu> Hi Wimpress
<Wimpress> Hi duflu. How's it going?
<duflu> Wimpress, I'm exhausted. Almost caught up on the 300 bugs from November now. But it's also Friday night so almost good night...
<duflu> How are you Wimpress?
<duflu> Oh well, hope it's a good one
 * duflu goes to sleep for most of the weekend
<seb128> duflu, enjoy!
<Wimpress> Nice! 300 bugs :-D
<popey> Good morning
<popey> who owns the libreoffice snap? I noticed 6.3.3 is out upstream.
<marcustomlinson> popey: me
<popey> oh, ignore me, i need to clean my glasses :D
<marcustomlinson> haha
<popey> I really mis-read the number on the screen.
<popey> sooooo, any chance we can get a pretty banner uploaded for that snap marcustomlinson ?
<marcustomlinson> you mean make one myself?
<popey> Well, that's certainly an option.
<popey> Does the upstream  project maybe have banners for other stores
<marcustomlinson> can't find anything official
<marcustomlinson> popey: alright I put a simple one up
<popey> bingo, htanks
<popey> -thanks
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi yall and happy friday
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: kenvandine also i got a little stuck yesterday and wonder if you two can point me in the right direction..
<hellsworth> gedit builds with gnome-3-34 but won't run because it can't find /snap/gedit/x1/gnome-platform/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3-0/gtk-query-immodules-3.0
<hellsworth> evince (built with gnoem-3-34) has this in /gnome-platform/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3-0/gtk-query-immodules-3.0
<hellsworth> so why the heck would gnome-platform not have this in gedit?
<kenvandine> is gnome-platform in gedit empty?
<hellsworth> actual gedit error when running it: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Bp9cvYxzsw/
<hellsworth> no it has a webkit dir but thats all
<kenvandine> you need to connect the gnome-3-34-1804 interface
<kenvandine> the webkit dir is there for the layout
<hellsworth> this is my gedit yaml: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wMYCddFKFm/
<hellsworth> omg the manual connection!!!!!
<kenvandine> :)
<hellsworth> so another thing i want to point out is the build-environment of gtksourceview in that yaml file
<hellsworth> gtksourceview doesn't like some of the build-environment variables set by the extension so i guessd and just cleared them
<kenvandine> interesting
<hellsworth> it's a bit annoying if folks want to snap their thing with gnome-3-34 and then have to fiddle around with what build-environment vars need to be cleared like this
<kenvandine> yeah
<hellsworth> if any one of those are commented out, gedit won't build
<hellsworth> so if i connect to the gnome-3-34-1804 interface, it fails with a different error: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CmgzJ3Y3fW/
<hellsworth> those permission denied bits are weird. idk why it would be trying to reach outside the /snap dir
<kenvandine> i needs write access to those dirs
<kenvandine> but it should have that
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: why are you building gtksourceview again?
<marcustomlinson> it's in the sdk snap no?
<hellsworth> oh shoot i think you're right.. lemme look
<kenvandine> that's probably left over from before we had newer gtksourceview
<marcustomlinson> would this help? https://git.launchpad.net/~marcustomlinson/gedit/+git/master/tree/snap/snapcraft.yaml
<hellsworth> yep it is
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: it can't hurt to use as a reference at least so thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> it's before the time of extensions of course
<hellsworth> ok i'll remove the gtksourceview part and rebuild to see if that gets me any farther
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: if you look at my yaml you don't need anything but gedit and the plugins parts
<marcustomlinson> I didn't at least :P
<hellsworth> so i wonder why amtk was there at all
<hellsworth> amtk is not in the build snap
<kenvandine> you need amtk
<kenvandine> relatively new build depends
<kenvandine> and tepl
<hellsworth> ah ok i'll put those back then and leave gtksourceview out
<marcustomlinson> :)
<marcustomlinson> cheers everyone, have a good weekend
<hellsworth> cheers you too!
<hellsworth> who is the WSL person?
<hellsworth> my husband just started using it so i asked for feedback
<hellsworth> apparently any new directory is being made with 777 perms instead of 755
<hellsworth> nvm there's a github issue on it: https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/352
<gitbot> microsoft issue 352 in WSL "Default umask (permissions) is not applied" [Feature, Fixedininsiderbuilds, Open]
