#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-26
<BrokenThumb> Did anyone try to install Ubuntu on the Windows RT tablet yet? (Just a random thought that popped up in my head)
<Pici> I don't know anyone with a Windows RT tablet yet ;)
<BrokenThumb> Alright, I'll also try in #ubuntu-arm
<bazhang> the surface?
<BrokenThumb> bazhang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
<BrokenThumb> Or should I lmgtfy.com it next time? ;-)
<bazhang> is that a 'no'?
<BrokenThumb> Well, the "Surface" tablet is the collective name for all Windows tablets I'm guessing.
<bazhang> ok
<BrokenThumb> The Windows RT Surface tablet is the ARM version I think.
<bazhang> nice
<AlanBell> does it run windows 8?
<AlanBell> that looks like a yes
<AlanBell> BrokenThumb: it won't ever run anything but Windows
<AlanBell> secure boot on ARM is not disableable and is mandatory for windows 8 certification
<BrokenThumb> Yuck...<_<"
<BrokenThumb> AlanBell: that's a real shame, because it's lovely hardware! Good design and well thought out. Nothing you'd expect from Microsoft O_O
<AlanBell> http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/01/microsoft-mandating-secure-boot-on-arm-making-linux-installs-difficult/
<IdleOne> Shouldn't someone sue them or something
<IdleOne> I guess they can make their hardware as closed as they like
<AlanBell> dunno if it would be possible to run a signed copy of Ubuntu or Fedora on it
<AlanBell> but basically it comes pre-bricked from the factory
<BrokenThumb> Yeah. real shame.
<AlanBell> I am hoping there are going to be some really cool tablet/netbook things coming out soon
<AlanBell> kind of a nexus 10 with a clamshell keyboard
<AlanBell> high resolution display, ARM, good battery life, no fan, and touchscreen
<IdleOne> What is it that makes ARM so interesting for the end user?
<IdleOne> if anything?
<AlanBell> battery life/no fan
<AlanBell> arguably
<IdleOne> I guess what I am asking is, as a non-dev should I be caring about ARM?
<AlanBell> not very much (in fact as a dev you don't need to care much unless you are doing low level stuff)
<AlanBell> the main difference is windows 8 certification requirements and lower power than intel
<AlanBell> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2016893/why-google-might-market-a-touchscreen-chromebook.html
<AlanBell> it is as if they were listening to me
<TheLordOfTime> heh
<k1l> i like the arm touchbook. a bigger ssd and ubuntu on it and i is a really nice one
<k1l> *chromebook (not touchbook)
<AlanBell> I want that awesome screen from the Nexus 10 though
<AlanBell> tempted to get one of my kids the chromebook though
<k1l> i want my ordered nexus4 :( still in backorder limbo
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-30
<AlanBell> anyone rushing out to buy a project sputnik laptop?
<AlanBell> I am struggling to believe how badly that project has been handled, it is as if someone was intentionally engineering it to have low sales figures
<AlanBell> lets take an awesome laptop, announce we are releasing it with Ubuntu, then wait until the hardware is a year old and competition has better specs for less money
<AlanBell> then sell it for a $50 premium over the windows equivalent
<AlanBell> so they are going to say "yeah, we tried an Ubuntu laptop, people talked about it, but nobody bought it, so we won't do that again"
<jussi> AlanBell: yeah, I wont be buying one...
<Tm_T> AlanBell: I'm unsure should I ask it for my next work laptop or something else
<Tm_T> there's couple reasons why I wouldn't want it, for example AFAIK it doesn't have docking bay capability
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-11-30
<cloudy_nz> I had no idea this channel existed
<lotuspsychje> cloudy_nz: :
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> this is to chitchat about ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> and nice to avoid crowdy offtopic
<cloudy_nz> To Ubuntu, or not to Ubuntu, that is the question...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> to ubuntu of course
<cloudy_nz> It's sad how people mock it as noobuntu
<lotuspsychje> meaning?
<lotuspsychje> keep on windows?
<cloudy_nz> No, usually it's arch Linux snobs
<lotuspsychje> well ubuntu is the most popular Os
<cloudy_nz> Is it? Thought it was mint for linux
<lotuspsychje> no, ubuntu has the most users
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-23
<daftykins> aww yeah, few home truths getting told at last
<pauljw> :)
<latrodectus> damn troll in #ubuntu
<daftykins> indeed, that user has been in under several nicknames masquerading as different folk and continues to ask stupid questions
<latrodectus> does he use the same host every time?
<latrodectus> because if he does just /slience him
<latrodectus> don't ban or kick
<daftykins> unfortunately, i don't log or take note to spot - but i did notice a theme to the mtr
<latrodectus> i always log
<latrodectus> plus #ubuntu is always logged anyways
<daftykins> yeah, only chat though not joins for hostmasks etc i thought?
<daftykins> i avoid logging for my sanity :)
<daftykins> "live in the moment"
<latrodectus> lol
<latrodectus> i like having the ability to throw words back at the stupid ones
<OerHeks> "always be helpfull" grinn
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> i think i might know this Vic from another channel as it goes, before the paranoid VPN usage, i think i saw an mtr go to an aorta.net address
<daftykins> but i don't fully understand what aorta is
<pauljw> brb
<OerHeks> hmm 129,95 refurbished http://store.bq.com/es/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5-outlet
<daftykins> mmm super low spec
<daftykins> the screen in particular
<pauljw> gnite all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Most still here .. rest well ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah had a good sleep Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Great, then "they" can start wearing on your nerves . "they" have frazed mine out ( daftykins is holding up well ) .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: the_count still here to solve things??
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> Bashing-om: sleep well o/
<lotuspsychje> you guys spent hours on him already
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> hiya
<daftykins> sec just settling into bed :D
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/open-source-amdgpu-linux-driver-released-supports-the-latest-amd-gpus-496545.shtml
<lotuspsychje> cosy irc :p
<daftykins> yep :D
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I had heard yesterday that AMD had released the driver . Awaiting now to know how it works on the real world .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
 * daftykins clicks to see what this one will be called from xorg's point of view
<daftykins> is it 'amdgpu' ?
<lotuspsychje> not sure
<Bashing-om> daftykins: No idea .. I had for some reason expected " FGLRX-updates" .
<daftykins> i guess time will tell
<Bashing-om> The indications I understood, the fix was now in the repo .. lotuspsychje Ya booting 15.10 to see ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im on trusty and xenial upstairs :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: daftykins Well ,, I guess we await another ginny pig to see .
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * daftykins grins widely, in a slightly concerning way
<daftykins> amdgpu is going to have TearFree :O
<lotuspsychje> !find xf86
<ubot5> Found: libxcb-xf86dri0, libxcb-xf86dri0-dbg, libxcb-xf86dri0-dev, libxxf86dga-dev, libxxf86dga1, libxxf86dga1-dbg, libxxf86vm-dev, libxxf86vm1, libxxf86vm1-dbg, x11proto-xf86bigfont-dev (and 8 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xf86&searchon=names&suite=vivid&section=all
<Bashing-om> To this time I can not cross reference to see if the new driver is in the repo .
<Bashing-om> shucks.
<lotuspsychje> !find amdgpu
<ubot5> Package/file amdgpu does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> another source: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-Xorg-1.0
<daftykins> i think it'd need to be the long name
<daftykins> maybe like a "xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu"
<Bashing-om> thers a thought ..lemee see .
<daftykins> but thenthe article said xf86-video-amdgpu so i'm not sure if they are renamed by Canonical
<lotuspsychje> driver might be just named amdgpu perhaps
<lotuspsychje> as radeon
<daftykins> i think that's just the name as per you would configure in xorg.conf though
<daftykins> radeon is still xserver-xorg-video-radeon in package form, no?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB0X:~$ apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-radeon
<lotuspsychje> xserver-xorg-video-radeon:
<lotuspsychje>   GeÃ¯nstalleerd: 1:7.3.0-1ubuntu3.1
<lotuspsychje> we findout soon on R9 users :p
<daftykins> ok i'm going folks, g'night and i'll see you in the week :)
<daftykins> next time on a whole new episode of... #ubuntu !
<lotuspsychje> nite nite daftykins
<cdshan> Hi!  Could some one help me out with the upgrade from Ubuntu 14.10 to 15.04? I had tried the documentation available on the net but am not able to succeed. some inputs would be very much appreciated!
<lotuspsychje> cdshan: this is ubuntu discuss channel mate
<cdshan> lotuspsychje: what is the right channel to discuss about this?
<lotuspsychje> cdshan: thats not a discussion, but an ubuntu support question
<lotuspsychje> cdshan: so in #ubuntu
<cdshan> ok, thanks for  the info
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon TJ-
<TJ-> hiya :)
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/open-source-amdgpu-linux-driver-released-supports-the-latest-amd-gpus-496545.shtml
<TJ-> About time - only 15 years late
<lotuspsychje> :p
<TJ-> Let's hope it has better quality than the fglxr
<lotuspsychje> yeah, now to wait for R9 users :p
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: http://news.softpedia.com/news/puppy-linux-based-studio-13-37-aims-to-be-the-ultimate-pro-audio-distro-gallery-496553.shtml
<cfhowlett> ... cause ANOTHER linux audio distro is exactly what we need!  :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> 'the best!'
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hows the tv doing?
<EriC^^> it's good :P
<lotuspsychje> movie overtime :p
<lotuspsychje> did you see blackhat yet EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> any good?
<lotuspsychje> yeah very good
<EriC^^> cool
 * lotuspsychje throws a redhat to OerHeks 
<EriC^^> TJ-: how come we can upgrade releases to the current development one but not jump to previous ones?
<EriC^^> TJ-: like bumbar upgraded from 14.04 to 15.10 using do-release-upgrade -d , users usually have to go to 14.10 then 15.04 then 15.10
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: -d, --devel-release
<lotuspsychje>               Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible
<lotuspsychje> dont think downgrade is possible on ubuntu
<cfhowlett> it's not an option
<EriC^^> yeah, i know, how come users can't jump from 14.04 to let's say 15.10 ( if it's not development )
<lotuspsychje> lts and non-lts are divided
<cfhowlett> EriC^^, because ubuntu only upgrades sequentially.  sole exception: LTS
<EriC^^> cfhowlett: yeah, but with -d it upgraded from lts to non-lts skipping 3-4 releases
<EriC^^> i mean what's the idea behind it
<lotuspsychje> wrong command on the latest LTS
<lotuspsychje> resulted badly
<lotuspsychje> next in the row is 16.04 and 16.10
<lotuspsychje> but as they dont exist yet...
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i also used do-release-upgrade -d from 15.10 to next release 16.04
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i wanted the early stage testing
<EriC^^> like in couples months 16.04 comes out, if somebody is using 14.10 right now, he can just jump to it if he wants
<EriC^^> instead of going 14.10 > 15.04 > 15.10 > 16.04
<lotuspsychje> i dont think so
<EriC^^> was wondering why he can't just do that straight away when 16.04 comes out, unless using -d isn't recommended and it's dangerous or something
<EriC^^> ( i mean it might break the system more than the usual 14.10 > 15.04 > 15.10 > 16.04 )
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think the normal way is do-release-upgrade
<lotuspsychje> but the -d might force it
<cfhowlett> I'd feel much safer doing a clean install
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: blueskaj might know more of this
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: xenial kernel is what?
<EriC^^> i think bumbar is on xenial not 15.10
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: 4.2 and soon receive 4.3 i think
<EriC^^> 4.2.0-19 is xenial?
<EriC^^> !info linux-image-generic wily
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.2.0.18.20 (wily), package size 2 kB, installed size 10 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.2.0.19.21 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 10 kB
<lotuspsychje> yeppers
<EriC^^> he says he can't update
<EriC^^> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/InRelease
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> sudo apt-get update?
<EriC^^> yeah, the file is there though just checked in a web browser
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: or maybe other ppa's installed for his previous ubuntu?
<EriC^^> nope the xenial main stuff
<lotuspsychje> weird
<lotuspsychje> i recently updated on my xenial box
<EriC^^> i guess he has connection issues
<lotuspsychje> afternoon BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: eric just had a trusty user upgrade to 15.10 with do-release-upgrade -d
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can you explain the logic of this?
<EriC^^> not me, he upgraded before we even met :P
<cfhowlett> yeah that sounds way suspect ...
<BluesKaj> nope, I can't, unless he upgraded to 16.04 from 15.10...he's mistaken I'm sure
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so its not possible to upgrade lts to non-lts?
<BluesKaj> -d is devel OS
<EriC^^> i think cause he had 14.04 he went to 16.04
<EriC^^> at first he said he was on 15.10 from 14.04 using -d
<BluesKaj> of course it is , just disable the LTS only upgrade in the package manager
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but i upgraded also 15.10 to 16.04 with -d
<BluesKaj> yes but -d mean developement OS , not official release OS
<cfhowlett> that would be normal.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> ok teatime here
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> methinks there's some confusion or maybe some BS involved with your trusty user
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,^
<BluesKaj> if he used -d then he mostlikely received 16.04, not 15.10, if he left the "LTS only upgrade" enabled, which is the default status afaik
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: yeah it turned out he had 16.04
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, right
<EriC^^> he said 15.10 at first, so i was wondering how could he jump from 14.04 to 15.10 without going through 14.10 and 15.04 by using -d , didn't make much sense
<BluesKaj> exactly
<EriC^^> like if someone had 13.10 and 16.04 is about to get released in a week they can just use -d and jump straight to that
<EriC^^> but usually cant and have to go a bunch of releases up first
<BluesKaj> dunno , never tried skipping releases with -d
<TJ-> I recall doing some work with the release-upgrader-core some years ago. with 'do-release-upgrade --devel' it'll fetch http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development and take the latest "Supported: 1" entry
<MonkeyDust> yes
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lordievader> o/
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader i tested unity8/mir on xenial :p
<lotuspsychje> hi daftykins
<lordievader> Blegh Unity...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: How was it? Horrible?
<lotuspsychje> hehe shiny bling like ubuntu touch :p
<lotuspsychje> but still shows as the phone version, alot of work needed until its desktop version
<lordievader> Is it usable yet?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: mouse support works to slide the scopes and browsing works
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: but again, it doesnt look like a desktop yet, much more phone
<lordievader> Brr
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> who knows what they will do with plasma in the future :p
<daftykins> wow at 3x to ask 'which OS are you in?'
<lotuspsychje> prrrt
<lotuspsychje> <guruprasad> I installed Ubuntu GNOME 15.10 on my desktop with Asus Z170-K motherboard and legacy mode enabled. The drive is formatted with GPT and already has Windows on it.
<lotuspsychje> thats his first question
<lotuspsychje> how are we suppose to know
<lordievader> How is that a question?
<lordievader> It mises the question mark and the... uhh... question.
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hello mate
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: O/ .. 'Nother lovely day in the neighborhood .
<lotuspsychje> : )
<lotuspsychje> i like uefi only when ubuntu boots it single :p
<lotuspsychje> lucky for our users we have EriC^^ :p
<OerHeks> i like uefa only when .... wait
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<OerHeks> there are vendors that build their own uefi
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu and football even dont match OerHeks
<EriC^^> i wish tj was here
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: got a question?
<EriC^^> i remember he had a bright idea about converting without booting into uefi mode
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: converting what
<MonkeyDust> don't believe him
<EriC^^> ah i remember
<lotuspsychje> lol MonkeyDust
<lotuspsychje> never saw you was here MonkeyDust
<EriC^^> loading the efivars module or something so grub can access it from a legacy booted session
<MonkeyDust> (have no clue what it's about)
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: there's a little button on your irc client, 'add to favorites' :p
<lotuspsychje> we all have our talents here and crazy ideas
<lotuspsychje> especially OerHeks is also crazy
<daftykins> EriC^^: :D
<MonkeyDust> i hate crazy people
 * lotuspsychje hides
<EriC^^> daftykins: i like this guy, he's quick! :D
<daftykins> MonkeyDust: if so, why do you join us in #ubuntu ? :D
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: we need einsteins in this world!
<daftykins> EriC^^: lol he took many minutes to even say which OS he was in before :(
<daftykins> EriC^^: i guess i warmed him up for you :P
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> warming up support
<lotuspsychje> thats new :p
 * lotuspsychje gonna warm up some trolls for OerHeks 
<lotuspsychje> ioria is a weird guy...oops shhhh
<lotuspsychje> he's here
<ioria> yes, i'm
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ioria> :Ã¾
<MonkeyDust> i hate weird guys
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ioria> indeed... i hate myself
<lotuspsychje> ioria: ok give 50 euro for the psychological advise to me now :p
<ioria> lotuspsychje,   come again , please  ????
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ioria: its a joke
<ioria> oh, Crazy World ? my kingdom for an horse !
<lotuspsychje> https://news.drweb.com/show/?i=9709&lng=en
<daftykins> guruprased is another skylake upgrader then
<daftykins> no doubt tripping up on early EFIs :D
<EriC^^> man chkdsk sucks, this guy installed linux yesterday, windows somehow got corrupted wouldn't mount
<lotuspsychje> windows 10 brrrr
<EriC^^> ntfsfix said to use chkdsk, so he used chkdsk from a windows cd, today his partition mounted, except it only had System Volume Information in it
<EriC^^> nothing in testdisk either
<lotuspsychje> weird
<EriC^^> he didn't have any stuff on it though, said it was from work
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you sure he followed correct steps to install dualboot uefi?
<EriC^^> he said he used the installer's other option to install to the empty space
<EriC^^> i wanted to ask him how he shrunk the partition and if he booted into it after shrinking a couple times cause some people say it's recommended
<EriC^^> didn't find out though if that's what got it corrupted, his smart data looked clean
<EriC^^> i think it's a new 128gb ssd
<lotuspsychje> ssd should be fine, but weird that windows is gone
<lotuspsychje> if he's sure that he installed?
<EriC^^> *shrug*
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: is it a hybrid ssd?
<EriC^^> dunno, it was win7 fwiw
<lotuspsychje> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> thanks lotuspsychje
<daftykins> EriC^^: i think that user did more than you were told ;)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: I have learned to watch out : Intel Smart Response Technology - dual boot . embedded data .
<OerHeks> maybe it had bitlocker
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> i've had win7 installed beside a xubuntu install for ages, keep upgrading xubuntu... upgraded to win10 and installed several new builds since, not one hint of trouble
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i had a medion box once with weird intel setting blocking new Os install once
<daftykins> ah the boot sector protection? :D
<JanC> boot sector protection doesn't really work outside DOS, right?  :P
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: keep forgetting its setting name
<lotuspsychje> intel something something...
<daftykins> intel break lotus' stuff, i think
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> JanC: sure does
<Bashing-om> Once upon a time in windows 7 with SSD and fast startup ... welp that was MS doing a raid thing .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hehe daftykins
<JanC> early boot sector protection worked purely at the BIOS level and modern OSs don't use that after boot
<daftykins> my memory is hazy, it could've been as long ago as Windows XP that setup got booted by for trying to do it when that option was on
<Kaosu> I was wondering if anyone might take a look a Ubuntu security guide I decided to write. Feel free to PM me with feedback. You can find the guide at: https://codezero.me/Ubuntu-Security-Guide/
<lotuspsychje> Kaosu: looks good, but i would add some more stuff
<Kaosu> Such as?
<lotuspsychje> Kaosu: like intrusion detectors
<lotuspsychje> Kaosu: fail2ban for ssh users
<MonkeyDust> Kaosu  i scrolled quickly in your manual... there's this too... http://hardenubuntu.com/
<lotuspsychje> !security | Kaosu and here
<ubot5> Kaosu and here: Security Updates are dealt with here:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Security - See also !root, !firewall and !server
<Kaosu> My plan was to split the guide up into two parts, but make them a complete guide when combined together. The first half would be focused on home users and the second half would be aimed at administrators/power users.
<Kaosu> So, the second half would cover all of those suggested topics.
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<MonkeyDust> Kaosu  and add a short content list too, in the beginning of the document
<lordievader> Perhaps a section about rkhunter too?
<lotuspsychje> good idea lordievader
<Kaosu> I made a note to add information about rkhunter in the "malware" section.
<MonkeyDust> Kaosu  another thing: try sudo apt update, see what's different   <-- not apt-get
<lotuspsychje> !usn | Kaosu yeah read here also
<ubot5> Kaosu yeah read here also: Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about Ubuntu security updates.
<Kaosu> I might actually add a section to the guide like "Current Security Issues" and just grab the top entries from the USN
<MonkeyDust> Kaosu  and avoid referring to yourself, as in 'I would prefer'
<Kaosu> Monkey: Thanks for pointing that out. I will go through and fix the areas where I did that.
<Kaosu> I'm not a very good writer, but I am getting better about not doing things like that.
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-24
<daftykins> more idiots tonight
<Bashing-om> ignore mode can get engaged mighty quick .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> time to leave the trolls to it i think, later folks o/
<Bashing-om> nighty nite daftykins .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<lotuspsychje> i hope more barebone companys will rise up
<lotuspsychje> so winblows wont be attached to hardware
<lotuspsychje> those clevo machines are nice, msi also
<TJ-> People for some reason keep letting MS off the hook, but they've never stopped doing what they started in the 1990s: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"
<lotuspsychje> yeah the sheep are so easy
<lotuspsychje> i wonder why companys dont bet on more horses then MS?
<lotuspsychje> its a good thing your hardware is wanted for multiple Os right?
<TJ-> kickbacks
<TJ-> Both MS and Intel have a long history of giving 'marketing rebates' to manufacturers for only shipping their stuff. Both Ms and Intel have been found guilty of it and made to pay large fines
<TJ-> I find it amazing why so many people still use Windows, on this basis alone:
<TJ-> Here, why don't you use this whizz-bang amazing software of mine?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I don't think so - every month for the last 15 years you've issued security updates to fix vulnerabilities and you've still not fixed it, and meanwhile I hear millions of PCs in the world get infected with malware and become part of bot-nets as a result
<lotuspsychje> i think users are trapped in 'a safe feeling' of the known
<TJ-> No one in their right mind would still drive an automobile with such a history
<lotuspsychje> why goto another Os when you feel safe inside the windows
<TJ-> So, I think they get what they deserve
<lotuspsychje> its like tradition right
<lotuspsychje> a fake safe feeling of the known
<TJ-> feel safe... no... too lazy to try something different: yes (comfort zone trumps security)
<lotuspsychje> but then you need to know someone who can support you, most users only find the start button
<Ben64> can't figure out my partitioning problem :(
<TJ-> Most modern Linux don't need support, no more than a similar Windows system
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: whats up mate
<TJ-> Ben64: we're here to fix it :)
<Ben64> I have an external drive, 3TB Seagate. The SATA->USB bit on the bottom broke and can no longer access the drive with USB. I plugged it into SATA and was able to access it, but the partitions are screwed up. Testdisk finds an "Intel" MBR, as opposed to GPT, and so the partition it can recover is limited to 2.2TB of the 3TB. How can I fix this?
<TJ-> Ben64: ooo ooo ooo I know! I know!
<Ben64> :D
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: can you get further with photorec?
<Ben64> well the data all seems to be intact
<Ben64> even finds the partition and I can browse it and everything
<TJ-> Ben64: the USB bridge was doing logical/physical sector size translation, direct SATA connection isn't
<Ben64> TJ-: boo, i was hoping not that
<TJ-> so the kernel is now seeing different sector sizes, so the relative LBA addresses are now wrong
<TJ-> You're the 2nd person with this issue this week
<Ben64> seagate?
<TJ-> makes no difference, the original problem was caused by the USB bridge translation
<Ben64> hmm.... so how to fix
<TJ-> instead of passing through what the drive actually reports, it 'munged' it
<TJ-> Ben64: can you show us "parted /dev/sdX unit s print" ?
<Ben64> http://sprunge.us/jiVP
<Ben64> you can see the 2.2TB it found
<TJ-> Ben64: how many partitions are on it?
<Ben64> one
<TJ-> Ben64: OK... "pastebinit <( dd if=/dev/sda count=16 bs=512 | hexdump -C )"
<TJ-> Ben64: this is t identify where the GPT starts
<Ben64> bah, living room computer turned off
<Ben64> hardly use it, so i have the power saving set to maximum
<Ben64> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13489742/
<TJ-> Cripes!
<Ben64> ?
<TJ-> Ben64: I expected to see the GPT header at either offset 512, or 4096, since the logical/physical sizes are those
<TJ-> GPT should start in LBA 1
<TJ-> We'd best look further!
<TJ-> Ben64:  "pastebinit <( dd if=/dev/sda count=32 bs=512 | hexdump -C )"
<Ben64> i'm not sure gpt exists at all on this
<Ben64> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13489753/
<TJ-> Ben64: No, not GPT there
<Ben64> why is it the same data?
<TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop1 --offset $( echo 2048*4096 | bc ) /dev/sda" then "blkid /dev/loop1"
<Ben64> no output
<TJ-> Ben64: OK, "losetup -d /dev/loop1
<TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop1 --offset $( echo 2048*512 | bc ) /dev/sda" then "blkid /dev/loop1"
<TJ-> (we're now trying 512-byte sector sizes)
<Ben64> /dev/loop1: LABEL="nessie" UUID="4d2222f6-3b59-4177-a586-2911d65a6ec1" TYPE="ext4"
<TJ-> That what you were looking for?
<Ben64> yep
<TJ-> OK, so what we did there was make the starting offset to partition 1 (which we know from the MBR starts at LBA 2048) different by multiplying the starting LBA by 4096 and 512, to find which was the correct one to use
<TJ-> so the USb bridge was using 512<>4096 translation whereas directly on SATA there is no translation
<Ben64> thats annoying
<TJ-> One of the 2 reasons I don't like USB bridges - the other being I've had several just fail (burn themselves out literally) when used with sustained data transfers
<Ben64> yeah i think thats what happened here
<TJ-> I prefer to use eSATA, on a laptop via an ExpressCard<>eSATA adapter
<Ben64> which is disappointing for a usb3.0 drive
<Ben64> think it could handle it
<TJ-> I have external cabinets that can do both eSATA and USB, and I use the eSATA always
<TJ-> the protocol can, but the chips don't have the cooling needed for sustained high-speed transfer
<Ben64> i guess my next drives are internal, and I'll use some old box as NAS
<Ben64> so if i get seagate to send me a new usb part, and i run testdisk again, it'll find all 3TB?
<TJ-> like I said - eSATA is the way, that also supports external port multipliers. Just ensure the SATA chipset in an ExpressCard is a recent one. older varieties can have disk capacity limitations
<TJ-> You've got it all now :)
<Ben64> honestly, the drive kind of sucks
<Ben64> the sata ports are too recessed, had to trim a cable to get it to fit
<Ben64> don't have a esata cable i'm willing to sacrifice for this
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: is there pcie card to esata to use it internal?
<Ben64> loop1    7:1    0   2.7T  0 loop
<Ben64> :o it is all there
<Ben64> /dev/loop1      2.7T  2.6T   17G 100% /mnt
<Ben64> :D
<lotuspsychje> wb seagate :p
<TJ-> If you notice, the ending sector number for partition 1 in the MBR 4294969342 isn't the same as the end of the drive, so that PT is wrong
<TJ-> Ben64: which suggests that USB bridge was doing something more than simple LBa translation, it may be actively using its own partitioning system somewhere else on the device
<TJ-> Ben64: might be an idea to create another loop device pointing to the sector following partition 1 and see what is there
<Ben64> i'll see if seagate wants to send me new bits
<Ben64> don't have a free sata on this computer to use
<TJ-> Ben64: "losetup /dev/loop2 -o $( echo 512*4294969343 | bc ) /dev/sda"
<Ben64> oh, i think thats because of testdisk
<TJ-> Oh! you allowed testdisk to write to the disk?
<Ben64> it originally had one partiton, around 340GB, unknown filesystem
<Ben64> yeah
<Ben64> it showed the partition, how many sectors, etc
<TJ-> Did you take a back-up of the original MBR before doing that?
<Ben64> i did the math and it was the full 3TB, but I forgot about the MBR
<Ben64> so it wrote 2.2TB :|
<Ben64> uh... nope :S
<TJ-> darn! first rule of recovery, *always* take a back-up of anything you change on a live system. The MBR is only 512 bytes :)
<Ben64> yeah, i messed up
<Ben64> i was just thinking, well it won't delete anything
<TJ-> you should be able to re-write that MBR though. delete P1, then create a new one, starting at 2048 and ending at the default (end of disk), set it's type and that should be it
<Ben64> i don't think that'd work
<TJ-> it'd end at 5860533167 then
<Ben64> i bet the 340GB partition was the whole thing
<Ben64> and with whatever seagate's sata-usb thing does it works out
<TJ-> but we know what you have now, and it's there on /dev/loop1, so you can write a partition entry that matches what is there
<TJ-> we know it starts at LBA (sector) 2048, and it uses the entire disk, so there's no risk of losing some later partition
<Ben64> well... usb thing is alive
<Ben64> [423695.404476] sde: p1 size 34359738360 extends beyond EOD, truncated
<TJ-> the partitioner should set it to 5860533167
<Ben64> doesn't seem like its letting me write to the disk
<TJ-> what error?
<TJ-> are you talking about the warning that the kernel's partition table couldn't be updated?
<Ben64> Partition: Write Error (from testdisk)
<lotuspsychje> cant you scan the whole hd with photorec and recover the data?
<TJ-> Ben64: don't use testdisk.
<TJ-> just use fdisk
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the data doesn't need recovering, we have it fine
<Ben64> lotuspsychje: yes, but the filesystem and everything is fine
<lotuspsychje> ah kk
<lotuspsychje> good job
<Ben64> don't really use fdisk a lot
<Ben64> TJ-: delete partition, create partition?
<TJ-> Ben64: run 'fdisk /dev/sda' ... delete any existing partitions. create a (n)ew, it will likely suggest the default starting sector as 2048, if not, type it, then for the ending sector just press enter to accept the default (will be end of disk), set the type 8e, and then check the table with (p)rint. Then if it looks good, (w)rite it
<Ben64> start is at 256 now
<TJ-> Ben64: 256 in what units?
<Ben64> uh.... sectors?
<TJ-> delete anything thats there, create the partition you need using the instructions above ^
<Ben64> ooh maybe it does need to be 2048 still
<Ben64> using your loop trick, shows up 2048*512
<TJ-> yes, it HAS to be 2048
<Ben64> First sector (256-732566644, default 256):
<TJ-> ahhh, that's because it's looking at the physical sector size 4096
<Ben64> oh duh, thats why 2048*512 worked still... because that doesn't care about sectors
<TJ-> echo '256*4096; 2048*512' | bc => 1048576
<Ben64> created partition, wrote to disk, no error, mounted partition
<TJ-> Ben64: if the kernel is using the 4096 byte sectors you can redo the start is 256, or you can pull a neat trick. Create 2 partitions, one starting at 256 and the other at 2048... you have to do that editing manually of course on-disk using 'hexedit' but it's a clever way of being able to access the file-system no matter what translation is operating
<TJ-> Ben64: so you now have a working /dev/sda1 ?
<Ben64> well its /dev/sde1 over here, but yep :D
<Ben64> thanks
<Ben64> dunno how the usb part came back to life
<Ben64> tried it days later and it still didn't work, now it does
<TJ-> bad connection on the cabling/sockets - possibly cracked solder where the sockets are soldered to the PCB
<Ben64> so I should still see if it's under warranty
<TJ-> I often see that, and just reflow fresh solder/flux on the pins and ensure the socket itself is well soldered down on its lugs
<TJ-> OK, well, I have to go out now. Don't go breaking it again :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Ben64> i'll try not to write too hard to it anymore
<lotuspsychje> i also have a 1TB seagate with double usb ports cable, works like a charm
<Ben64> double usb ports?
<lotuspsychje> yeah to give it enough power
<lotuspsychje> its from few years ago
<lotuspsychje> now its all 1 usb cable
<lotuspsychje> mine is still split
<TJ-> devices are much lower power now, so they don't need more than the 0.5A per USB2 port they could expect
<lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett :p
<lotuspsychje> http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/11/dell-apologizes-for-https-certificate-fiasco-provides-removal-tool/
<lotuspsychje> a lot of big companys apologiys recently :p
<Ben64> maybe they shouldn't pull dumb crap like that
<lotuspsychje> yeah indeed
<lotuspsychje> MS forced updates, VW cheating system,...
<lotuspsychje> its all going bad :p
<TJ-> it's because 'developer' does NOT equal 'engineer' - Engineer implies a professional, with ethics, standards and so forth
<TJ-> If bridge Engineers worked the same way software developers did there would be uproar over all the bridge failures
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you remember how many devs worked on windows7
<lotuspsychje> and after a year MS sacced them all
<TJ-> I don't recall seeing that
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/microsoft-fires-7800-second-biggest-mass-layoff-its-history
<TJ-> That's this year, nothing to do with Windows 7
<Ben64> Microsoft also announced the reduction of up to 7,800 positions, primarily in the phone business
<Ben64> yeah, not windows
<cfhowlett> no surprise.  hard to get transaction against iPhone
<Ben64> iphone?
<Ben64> you mean android
<cfhowlett> both
<Ben64> 82.8% android
<Ben64> 13.9% ios
<Ben64> 2.6% windows
<cfhowlett> eh?  that's seems rather high.  source for the stats?
<Ben64> thought it'd be lower actually
<Ben64> thats units shipped 2015 q2
<cfhowlett> says who?
<Ben64> http://www.idc.com/tracker/showproductinfo.jsp?prod_id=37
<TJ-> I'm very surprised MS/Elop weren't charged criminally for the way they destroyed Nokia. Even more amazing is the shareholders sat back and took the destruction of value. From this side of history it looks like MS set out to destroy Nokia, any way they could
<Ben64> microsoft was in the business of destroying competition
<cfhowlett> was?
<TJ-> 1. Get MS executive onto Nokia board. Elop appointed CEO - CHECK. 2. 'pivot' from existing dominance of mobile market into making only MS Windows devices - CHECK. 3. Destroy value of Nokia - CHECK. 4. Buy remains cheaply - CHECK. 5. Fire the remaining inherited staff and close down the business - CHECK
<TJ-> One hell of a way to run a railroad!
<Ben64> cfhowlett: well they don't seem to be doing it like they were before
<TJ-> They're still funding partisan 'industry associations' to attack competitors both politically and legally
<TJ-> And providing 'marketing rebates' for Windows-only devices for those manufacturers that toe the line
<cfhowlett> and for all that, their phone division is failing.
<TJ-> right, both on 'phone and search they really don't understand the market drivers
<TJ-> They're used to dictating how users behave I guess, and have problems visualising how to leap-frog what is now the incumbant: Google
<Ben64> the only reason people use windows is because its what most people use
<lotuspsychje> true
<Ben64> they're not used to people having choice
<TJ-> we were on about this earlier :)
<TJ-> "who in their right mind would choose a product that over 15 years has needed security patches every month?"
<Ben64> some people still imagine linux being like the lines of code in the matrix
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Ben64> i like how they don't even push patches until a certain day
<lotuspsychje> neo took over my computer
<Ben64> eh whatever, stay vulnerable till next patch wednesday
<lotuspsychje> haha
<TJ-> I'm glad it does, that way you get an idea what it is doing
<Ben64> windows 10 is increasingly scary sounding, so thats good for linux
<lotuspsychje> i agree on that Ben64
<lotuspsychje> will be good for my ubuntu shop :p
<Ben64> you have an ubuntu shop?
<cfhowlett> windows has been scary for YEARS and linux is still stickied at ... what?  2 - 4% market penetration?  Hell, even OSX has more than that.
<Ben64> its scaring more normal people now
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: not yet, next year ill start
<Ben64> forced updates, privacy stuff spelled out
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: ubuntu + ssd + tweaked
<Ben64> selling ubuntu computers?
<lotuspsychje> yes also
<lotuspsychje> and phones and tablets
<Ben64> do you need to do anything with canonical
<lotuspsychje> ill contact them before i start to ask that
<Ben64> not sure the licensing stuff for ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> but ubuntu is free right
<Ben64> "Ubuntu" isn't free
<Ben64> Ubuntu is free
<Ben64> If I'm remembering properly
<lotuspsychje> you mean the name mentioning on someone elses website then
<Ben64> I think its like the iceweasel thing
<lotuspsychje> i could also mention 'a linux distro'
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: well, you know system76, ill do a bit liek them
<lotuspsychje> Ben64:
<lotuspsychje> https://system76.com/
<Ben64> or just ask permission
<lotuspsychje> yes i will contact them
<Ben64> "To use the Ubuntu trademark, you must secure the Canonical's OEM services team's permission. You can contact them to see if what you're doing is okay. This should not be too difficult, as several small vendors like System76 and ZaReason have secured an agreement."
<Ben64> Sounds pretty easy
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: https://system76.com/disclaimer
<lotuspsychje> last 3 lines
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> oh nothing much, easy chatting here this morning with the lads here :p
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> TJ-: yesterday someone was trying to convert his legacy install to uefi, ( booting the usb in uefi mode gave him a grub shell ), i tried to modprobe efivars but grub still couldn't find the efivars
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: Ben64 suggested me to contact canonical for my shop and i found this: https://system76.com/disclaimer
<EriC^^> was wondering if there was anything else needed to be done to get grub-efi to install from a legacy booted install, in the end he turned off secure boot and that somehow didn't drop him to a grub shell anymore and he installed in uefi mode ( kind of odd isn't it? )
<TJ-> EriC^^: the way I do it is to install grub-efi, but also copy /efi/EFI/grub/grubx64.efi to /efi/EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI ... that is the EFI simple (removable media) boot path the firmware checks on a device you try to boot in EFI mode. That way the system will still be bootable, and once booted in EFI mode, you can redo the "grub-install" which can successfully use efibootmgr to add the Ubuntu boot menu
<TJ-> entry
<EriC^^> i see
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: what does that mean to you?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i also have to mention ubuntu's logo etc trademark
<EriC^^> TJ-: how come it didn't drop to a grub shell after disabling secure boot? isn't secureboot supposed to not let grub even be loaded in the first place?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: oh ok, that's a good heads up then
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> EriC^^: if the PC is booting in legacy mode its reading LBA 0 from the boot device. If it starts in EFI mode, and there is no existing boot menu entry, it'll look at the bootable devices for an EFI system partition, and then look for the simple boot path. Without either of those the firmware won't even be able to load GRUB
<EriC^^> yeah, he said when he chose UEFI usb in the boot menu it gave him a grub shell, legacy worked though
<EriC^^> when he disabled secureboot, he then chose UEFI usb again, and it booted into ubiquity
<EriC^^> maybe he had a bad shimx64.efi or something? it's odd no?
<TJ-> The grub shell in UEFI mode tells you it loaded /EFI/grub/grubx64.efi - otherwise known as GRUB's core.img
<TJ-> So it sounds like GRUB  simply couldn't find its root file-system (/boot/) where the grub files are
<TJ-> in that case always use "set" to check the values of "root" and "prefix" variables, and then look in the "prefix" location for the grub.cfg and other files/dirs to check the expected files are there
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: you said yesterday something about nvidia depraced?
<lotuspsychje> nouveau or current?
<BluesKaj> no more nvidia-current
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: whats the replacement for it?
<lotuspsychje> or do users need to specifi nvidia-340 etc
<BluesKaj> if one tries to install the driver using nvidia-current, it fails
<BluesKaj> yes, specific afaik
<lotuspsychje> any reason?
<BluesKaj> dunno
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ok tnx
<BluesKaj> the last nvidia-current was the 304 driver
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-current
<BluesKaj> which is was used on 13.10 iiirc
<ubot5> nvidia-current (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-304): Transitional package for nvidia-current. In component restricted, is optional. Version 304.131-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 4 kB, installed size 36 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-current xenial
<ubot5> nvidia-current (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-304): Transitional package for nvidia-current. In component restricted, is optional. Version 304.131-0ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 4 kB, installed size 19 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<BluesKaj> so the 304 driver is the last nvidia-current
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so users think they gonna get latest and get the 304
<BluesKaj> yup
<lotuspsychje> devs know about this?
<lotuspsychje> lemme go ask in devel
<BluesKaj> dunno , never seen it discussed on #kubuntu-devel, but maybe the devs at #ubuntu-devel have an answer
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: <lotuspsychje> is nvidia-current going to be depraced?
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> shows still nvidia-graphics-drivers-304
<lotuspsychje> <tjaalton> it's already deprecated, as it's just a transitional package
<BluesKaj> ok
<BluesKaj> thanks
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: it will vanish after 304 is dead
<BluesKaj> makes sense
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: and additional drivers section now manages right driver for the system
<BluesKaj> yeah in kubuntu it's the driver manager
<lotuspsychje> good to know
<BluesKaj> yeah, it's important
<lotuspsychje> his pc might have autorun worm and error on the stick TJ-
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: nah, the while thing has been wiped with the dd of the ISO
<TJ-> This is the person that was banned for being a pain not so many weeks ago, in fact, the nickname got notoruious
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> cant recall that nick
<TJ-> 2015-11-04 18:12:07     TJ-     Eh? No - I was commenting on pikapi managing to destroy Ubuntu 3 times a day apparently
<TJ-> 2015-11-05 12:54:47     daftykins       TJ-: well it's been all go here too ;) pikapi is one of those bad-advice trolls
<TJ-> 2015-11-05 12:55:30     TJ-     pikapi, the 3-a-day Ubuntu kid?
<lotuspsychje> right
<TJ-> I think pikapi is one of those people that does all sorts of random stuff 'read on the forums' without any concept of what it does, and then comes here wanting to be dug out of the hole
<lotuspsychje> thats not the same as that pikachu guy that gave false advise?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the on you tought to have asperger lol
<TJ-> Right! that's the one
<lotuspsychje> looool
<TJ-> I'd forgotten... thankfully :D
<TJ-> no wonder its stressing me
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but ikonia banned that guy
<lotuspsychje> i was there
<TJ-> ahh, yes, ddaftykins told me about that
<lotuspsychje> doesnt make sense, that guy gave false advise was more agressive to other users
<lotuspsychje> lol soon we are investigators instead of volunteers :p
<TJ-> this is what I mean about him doing random things:
<TJ-> 2015-11-03 19:41:16     pikapi  i did sudo apt-get remove initramfs-tools and it was uninstalling just about everything
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * TJ- is rolling eyes like bowling balls :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> someone has a mental disease :p
<TJ-> when you've got users randomly doing things like that there could be any number of things wrong with the system causing knock-on effects - like this booting issue, we still don't know what the PC is I don't think, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn its been 'tuned' and overclocked in the firmware setup
<lotuspsychje> true
<lotuspsychje> thats why support is so hard
<lotuspsychje> never know what the user did really
<TJ-> I had a remote ssh session on Sunday, to recover a RAID-1 array on a live virtual machine Xen host that had 'lost' access to a pair of disks after the datacentre remote-hands had killed the power to the server. Took about 3 hours to fix it up whilst the system was live. It made me realise how much better it is to have hands/eyes-on
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: bt you did a great job on my ralink remote :p
<TJ-> I did? we did? I don't remember that!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> stay off the dog food :p
<TJ-> oh... you mean that WMP600N PCI ID issue
<lotuspsychje> ralink 2800pci
<lotuspsychje> yep
<TJ-> ahh, see, I don't think of it as ralink at all
<lotuspsychje> yeah linksys as main :p
<TJ-> My brain remembers visuals and concepts and procedures, but not precise facts - not for long anyhow. I constantly have to 'refresh' by searching for the precise way of doing something. One reason I prefer precise accurate documentation and exact instructions.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah youre a very practical thinker and i like that
<lotuspsychje> bbl driving lessons
<EriC^^> TJ-: uefi conversion
<EriC^^> robotti says he can't boot in uefi mode on his mac
<EriC^^> how do we go about getting grub installed?
<EriC^^> TJ-: you there?
<TJ-> sorry, was out and about in the fields
<EriC^^> TJ-: np, it apparently installed fine
<EriC^^> sudo modprobe efivars might have done it
<daftykins> on macs it's fine to just install grub to the partition that ubuntu is on; then suggest installing rEFInd as a boot loader
<daftykins> amusingly i'm attempting to fix a boot issue on my old HTPC today :D
<daftykins> a dist-upgrade murdered a 14.04 install o0 it claims it can't find a UUID at boot but they're all correct, very odd indeed
<daftykins> anywho i'm not gonna give up just yet, giving it a look over now via chroot :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I do not know Macs or rEFInd , not much direct help there .. BUT I do boot an (L)ubuntu install with grub installed onto the partition .
<daftykins> oh the mac thing was just a delayed comment to EriC^^ - i was scrolled up a bit by accident
<daftykins> my one is a standard PC
<EriC^^> try to update-initramfs -u maybe
<Bashing-om> :) .. I multi boot 'buntus .. took me weeks of trial and effort and a steep learning curve to be able to boot any I desire, and a update on one not messing up grub on the others .. Hey, I feel good with what I did learn in this endevour .
<daftykins> EriC^^: yeah that seems like the ticket now, i had some udevadm errors - wireless keyboard wouldn't call up GRUB so i'm going to do it from live session again :>
<daftykins> Bashing-om: sounds good indeed, i don't really know where to start with boot most of the time
<daftykins> and i don't know about you guys but i found those boot repair logs a nightmare to read =|
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I still get lost with the hooks that are called into the kernel . Not real sure to this time what is taking place in kernel land .
<TJ-> :)
<daftykins> cat trying to sneak on my lap whilst i'm busy D:
<daftykins> ah, i love the native resolution boot logo up on my large TV... shame the nvidia proprietary drivers ruin that
<daftykins> not half as much as i love the native resolution TTYs mind ;)
<daftykins> ok that's mine all fixed ^_^
<TJ-> I've had to fix a GCC 5 induced bug in syslinux that prevents systems booting, and it affects USB startup disk creator and anything else that uses syslinux for boot loader services, in order to build a new plopkexec floppy. Then I had to figure out how to build a kernel small enough to fit on a floppy,  and now the resulting darned plopkexec kernel image can't find the plop /init exectuable!
<daftykins> >_<!
<daftykins> why are we even moving to GCC 5 when it seems to have screwed over so many things?
<TJ-> Because it provides some great improvements
<daftykins> ah just painful to get there :>
<TJ-> the problems were caused by programmers using unsupported functionality, rather than sticking to the standards
<daftykins> oh ok sort of like when things become deprecated?
<TJ-> not even that... things GCC just happened to do but didn't match the language/POSIX specifications, so when later versions of the compiler are used to build that code, and have tightened up the observence of the rules, things break
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> oh btw guys i read AMD have moved a lot more graphics cards to legacy status now, including some APUs
<daftykins> this is mostly for the Windows drivers but i'm sure that'll trickle down into the Linux driver(s) at some point too
<TJ-> I'm having to force using gcc 4.8 for this 3.1.4 version that plop uses: "make ARCH=i386 CC=gcc-4.9 bzImage"
<TJ-> Yes, they seem to do that very aggressively - not the best way to keep your loyal customers happy
<daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/9815/amd-moves-pre-gcn-gpus-to-legacy
<daftykins> here's more
<daftykins> so before it was up to and including HD 4000 that was useless on anything newer than 12.04.1; now HD 5000, HD 6000, HD 7000 and HD 7600 are gone
<daftykins> also pre-Kaveri APUs
<OerHeks> oink
<daftykins> o/
<TJ-> ahah! The kernel's initramfs/ directory had a symlink to the built version of the /init exectuable I'd built in another location, but the kernel was literally including the symlink, not resolving it to the exe!
<TJ-> boots and works in a VM... now to try it again on that obstinate mobo
 * daftykins sighs at the channel
<TJ-> nope, doesn't like the hardware. Grrr, so frustrating!
<daftykins> that the embedded one again?
<Bashing-om> TJ-: The bright side . Fighting the motherboard . slim chance you will find trouble elsewhere and land in Jail .
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> haha! can reproduce it in the VM now... qemu-system-x86_64 -cpu 486 ...
<TJ-> So, the compiler is building the /init exe for a later 32-bit CPU
<daftykins> easily remedied?
<TJ-> yes, alter the compiler options to target the earlier CPU
<daftykins> \o/
<TJ-> so, it dies in qemu VM with 486 or pentium, but not pentium2. I built the /init exe with gcc -march=c3-2 (which is the specific VIA C3 Samuel 2 CPU on the mobo)
<daftykins> oof those little things :)
<TJ-> hmmm, it's looking like it's not the /init options so much as the kernel options
<Bashing-om> ^^ That ole song " What does it take to keep a kernel like you, Satisfied " .
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-25
<TJ-> still not solved it. "Attempt to kill init!"
 * daftykins switches the track to Queen - Another One Bites the Dust
<daftykins> i usually reserve that one for dead disks i diagnose ;)
<daftykins> trouble approaches...
<berwyn> Hi everyone 'in' this room. Also, I am a 'new' Linux Mint. But I do have a question about/on PlayDeb, the unofficial Ubuntu games website. My question is: Are the games from PlayDeb safe? Or....Is it safe to download games from the PlayDeb website? Thanks.  :)
<berwyn> *user
<daftykins> so you were bs-ing us all along in #ubuntu - well i'll tell you what i'd tell you there, we don't support Mint.
<daftykins> !mint
<ubot5> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<SeriouslyLaugh> yeah, god forbid we help any new linux users.
<OerHeks> maybe the downloads are safe, and games may not.
<OerHeks> it is a trusted way, but no guarantees.
<daftykins> SeriouslyLaugh: there's another channel to go talk about it in, so i see no problem... Mint has its' own issues and is best dealt with by people that run it themselves.
<Welshman> daftykins + ubot5: Thanks. Also, yes, I know about #linuxmint-chat and -help. But was encouraged by cryptodan in/on #linuxmint-chat to ask in an #ubuntu channel/room. Also, my question is about the PlayDeb website which is listed on Ubuntu website! So, if you do not mind, I will wait for a few minutes to see if someone answers/replies to my question!! Thanks again. :)
<SeriouslyLaugh> Welshman you might have better success asking in ##linux -- but don't mention the distribution you use. the cool kids frown upon mint.
<daftykins> that guys on Mint... interesting
<Welshman> SeriouslyLaugh: Thanks for your reply. But as I have mentioned/said already I was encouraged by another person to ask my question in an #ubuntu channel/room. So....I will wait for a few minutes! Thanks again. :)
<SeriouslyLaugh> but it's not really an ubuntu question
<SeriouslyLaugh> just saying
<SeriouslyLaugh> though it does say "caters to the Ubuntu gamer"
<SeriouslyLaugh> meh
<SeriouslyLaugh> semantics
<Welshman> SeriouslyLaugh: Sorry to disturb but have a question to ask you. My question is: If I cannot ask that question here in this channel/room and I cannot ask it in the 'other' channel/room then how am I going to get the answer? Seems a bit unfair! :(
<SeriouslyLaugh> you asked in two rooms. there are literally thousands on freenode
<daftykins> shockingly, on freenode you find channels appropriate to a topic.
<daftykins> !alis
<ubot5> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu or /msg alis list http
<daftykins> this website you speak of may even have details of an IRC channel + network for itself.
<SeriouslyLaugh> literally the top populated room on freenode is called ##linux and is for all linux discussion one would presume
<Welshman> SeriouslyLaugh: Okay, thanks. Suppose I should try ##linux seems that I am not welcomed here to ask my/that question. So, I bid you a goodnight - it's 1.04am here - and all the best! :)
<daftykins> weird you repeat the same format with all statements
<SeriouslyLaugh> maybe he's a really advanced bot
<Welshman> daftykins + ubot5: You might be pleased to know that I am going to try to enter ##linux as suggested by SeriouslyLaugh. So, goodnight + all the best to both of you!!
<daftykins> you'd know, you joined in all the channels at the same time the trolls started :)
<SeriouslyLaugh> pay no mind to the man behind the curtain!
 * OerHeks is playing So Lonely - The Police [ft. More Alone]
<daftykins> yep troll season is in full swing :(
<SeriouslyLaugh> they keep feeding it.
<daftykins> you're part of it as far as i'm concerned
<SeriouslyLaugh> :|
<SeriouslyLaugh> apologies if it seems that way -- i'm still learning the tone of the channel
<daftykins> don't fight the rules and you'll do well; what you've been trying to challenge so far has made you look like common trolls
<SeriouslyLaugh> got it
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> troll season is in full swing, lotuspsychje - be warned!
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> oh-oh
<lotuspsychje> lets calm them down :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> !ppa | SeriouslyLaugh this is just a test to see if the bot is active in this channel too
<ubot5> SeriouslyLaugh this is just a test to see if the bot is active in this channel too: A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<SeriouslyLaugh> apologies
<lotuspsychje> !msgthebot | SeriouslyLaugh
<ubot5> SeriouslyLaugh: Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubot5 Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubot5 !search factoid".
<SeriouslyLaugh> ty lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/black-lab-software-announces-linux-based-mac-mini-competitor-black-lab-briq-v5-496665.shtml
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: see plenty more AMD graphics cards have just been moved to legacy status now?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: no?
<daftykins> HD 5000 and HD6000, plus some earlier HD7xxx are now legacy
<daftykins> and pre-kaveri AMD APUs too
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: if i understand correctly new amdgpu driver will only allow new cards
<lotuspsychje> and older drivers keeping seperated
<daftykins> probably echo the above yeah and support GCN cards only
<OerHeks> AMD is saying that the performance in some Linux games will increase by at least 112%.
<lotuspsychje> wow
<OerHeks> http://news.softpedia.com/news/radeon-crimson-driver-to-bring-linux-performance-improvements-of-over-100-496617.shtml
<daftykins> glxgears here we come ;)
<lotuspsychje> back to the graphics battle lol
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=phoronix_news
<lotuspsychje> alot of crimson news ontop OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> daftykins, OerHeks the devel guys told me nvidia-current is already dead, and will be removed after the 304 driver is gone
<lotuspsychje> so no nvidia-current for users anymore
<lotuspsychje> the additional drivers section takes now care of the driver for users
<daftykins> well that package i haven't advise to use for several years
<daftykins> *advised
<lotuspsychje> great
<SeriouslyLaugh> daftykins for the record, you are right
<SeriouslyLaugh> re: the topic in the support channel
<daftykins> thanks
<daftykins> i mean, i could understand if we were talking about someone who uses shared internet connections a lot... or doesn't use a router but connects direct...
<daftykins> but it's 100% apparent there's no understanding of the concept there
<SeriouslyLaugh> right
<lotuspsychje> the whonix page shows net.ipv4.tcp_timestamps = 0 ? not icmp
<SeriouslyLaugh> literally FUD, and she even used that term
<daftykins> my brain tends to go off whenever i see something involving 'privacy' or TOR
<SeriouslyLaugh> spidey senses
<SeriouslyLaugh> though, i use a vpn
<SeriouslyLaugh> because some irc servers don't properly cloak
<daftykins> well this one has been around for over a week, so the crazy is firmly evident
<daftykins> OerHeks: all we need is, radio ga ga~
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ- and cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, hey there
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-xenial-xerus-will-be-powered-by-linux-kernel-4-4-lts-496675.shtml
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/gnu-org-website-says-microsoft-s-software-is-malware-496689.shtml
<lotuspsychje> lol
<cfhowlett> again.
<TJ-> hallo :)
<TJ-> oh what it is to ride this kernel train tonight... especially when the darned thing doesn't like the CPU :)
<cfhowlett> ride the kernel train tonight?  that's a motown sound!
<TJ-> uhuh :)
<TJ-> I'm building plopkexec to fit on a 1.44 FD,  but no matter what compiler options I set, it throws an error if executed on the real mobo (VIA C3 Samuel 2) and in a Qemu Guest if arch isn't set to pentium2 despite my building with gcc -march=c3 or -march=486. Can't figure it out
<lotuspsychje> what kind of error TJ-
<TJ-> kernel panic, init killed. As in the /init from plop dies. I suspect due to it trying to use an opcode that doesn't exist on the CPU, and the fact I can reproduce it in a VM Guest seems to confirm that, but as I say, despite my setting the specific compiler machine arch to use, the condition remains
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: foudn a thread, not sure if it will help: http://reboot.pro/topic/20524-grub4dos-via-kexec-plopkexec-specifically/
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<TJ-> as in https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.jpg
<TJ-> that's with a pentium CPU: "qemu-system-x86_64 -m 512 -cpu pentium -drive if=floppy,format=raw,file=floppy.img"
<lotuspsychje> not many hits on plopexec on google :p
<TJ-> And this is with "-cpu pentium2" https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.good.jpg
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: tested other kernels?
<TJ-> so the issue is obviously a compiler flags issues; I'm building with gcc options "-march=c3 -m32" (c3 is the specific Via C3 CPU on the target, but obviously the Qemu guest also fails so something appears to be including non C3 code
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm building the kernel itself; it's build target is the Via C3 too
<TJ-> kernel is going fine, it's the /init exectuable build that has this issue
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: how about this: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2007-10/msg00442.html
<lotuspsychje> or this:  0
<lotuspsychje> down vote
<lotuspsychje> 	
<lotuspsychje> I found the fix with the help of this thread. I had to enable CONFIG_AEABI in my kernel.
<lotuspsychje> https://balau82.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/compiling-linux-kernel-for-qemu-arm-emulator/
<TJ-> the kernel is working fine, it's the plop /init exectuable throwing the panic
<lotuspsychje> cant find nothing much on plop
<TJ-> I've just captured the kernel dmesg over a serial console from the VM: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.log
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<TJ-> I'll do another with the 'pentium2' set as the CPU
<TJ-> here: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/plopkexec.pentium.log -  you'll see it actually runs the plop /init over the serial console :)
<TJ-> I wonder if this is another of those weird gcc 5 issues
<lotuspsychje> not sure on this
<TJ-> I've installed the 4.9 gcc libraries and building with that, see if it makes a difference
<TJ-> that futurama140 seems to be hell-bent on destroying their system. no idea what that 'wibom' is, but can't see it in the archives
<lotuspsychje> never seen it either
<TJ-> oh, I think I've figured it out! The Ubuntu 32-bit GCC libaries are all built for i686, so when they're linked into this exectuable they bring pentium2 (i686) instructions
<TJ-> bugger!
<TJ-> So, basically, I'm going to have to go back to Ubuntu 5.10 or so to get the libraries that were built for i386
<lotuspsychje> oh i see
<cfhowlett> 5.10?  errrrrrrrrrr .....
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !5.10
<ubot5> Ubuntu 5.10 (Breezy Badger) was the third release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 13, 2007. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
<lotuspsychje> yayyyy
<cfhowlett> so ... just a BIT dated ...
<lotuspsychje> security bomb :p
<lotuspsychje> JT- hahaa
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ :p
<TJ-> Well, I'll find the last build that supported the i586/pentium class CPUs; the target CPU cannot support the cmov instruction that the pentium2/i686 introduced
<TJ-> Better using those prebuilt binaries that trying to build the entire current standard library for i586 - that's take ages, and doesn't help since the target CPUb/mobo has to be able to install and run many packages :)
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: Danco in #ubuntu
<EriC^^> 800 computers
<lotuspsychje> oO
<EriC^^> wonder where he got them from
<lotuspsychje> lets find out :p
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: tnx for the highlight
<lotuspsychje> Danco: welcome mate
<lotuspsychje> Danco: can you tell us more about your project?
<lotuspsychje> Danco: gonna start own ubuntu store?
<Danco> We basically got a batch of 700-800 computers from colleges and schools that were put out of commission. The previous licensing was done through a Windows server, so we cannot supply with Windows. To have our buyers be able to use the computers they'd at least need something to work with.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> and you will sell them machines with ubuntu on Danco
<Danco> Preferably yes, we got one machine pre installed with the OEM installation, which would then get imaged to our FOG server, which will then upload and install a batch of 50 computers at the same time.
<lotuspsychje> Danco: im starting an own store next years, thats why im interested
<Danco> But the price for a computer with or without Ubuntu would be the same.
<Danco> I see :)
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu makes it cheaper right
<lotuspsychje> -100 euro for windows
<lotuspsychje> and ill order barebones to put own hardware inside
<lotuspsychje> Danco: no payed ms office lisence, no antivirus
<Danco> Exactly, but I cannot get on with it unless I get permission from Canonical
<lotuspsychje> Danco: yeah, you need to be confirmed
<lotuspsychje> Danco: check the disclaimer here at bottom 3 lines: https://system76.com/disclaimer
<lotuspsychje> Danco: you site will need it also, to sell them legit
<Danco> Ah, as long as we would put that in after confirmation we would be able to sell them?
<lotuspsychje> Danco: i think it wont be more complicated then that
<Danco> I'll just be patient then. Thank you kindly :)
<lotuspsychje> Danco: just to avoid users thinking, you invented ubuntu on the machines you sell
<Danco> Ah fair enough, that's understandable. So there shouldn't be a fee towards us for batch supplying?
<lotuspsychje> Danco:i dont think so, as ubuntu is opensource
<lotuspsychje> Danco: if you want canonical support, thats another business
<Danco> Fair enough, I got falsely informed. We wouldn't need support, I just want to cover my own behind if you know what I mean.
<lotuspsychje> Danco: sure, but make sure you wait for the canonical reply
<Danco> Will definitely do that! Thank you :)
<lotuspsychje> Danco: oem brands like the new phones and such bq,meizu will need to pay fee to canonical
<Danco> But that's due to it being completely being based on their source code isn't it?
<lotuspsychje> Danco: yeah and updates support and such
<Danco> So you are the owner of system76?
<lotuspsychje> Danco: no, im gonna run own store bit like system76
<Danco> Ah fair enough :) I wish you the best of luck in the future!
<lotuspsychje> Danco: with phones,tablets,laptops and desktops
<lotuspsychje> Danco: all ubuntu + ssd
<lotuspsychje> Danco: tnx
<Danco> Webbased?
<lotuspsychje> Danco: you mean online shop also?
<Danco> I meant purily online.
<lotuspsychje> ah no
<lotuspsychje> own store from home also +repair +security advise
<lotuspsychje> Danco: i will also tweak ubuntu before sending to customer
<lotuspsychje> Danco: you know a spanish school did the same thing as you, whole schools network on ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> Danco: maybe look that up, might be relevant
<lotuspsychje> germany governement changed to ubuntu also
<Danco> Afraid we already sold all the computers, next batch might be able to go back in a network.
<lotuspsychje> Danco: your customer will send the to individuals or use for network?
<Danco> We are not quite sure, they are a big chain that buys and resells any product range.
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> Danco: whats the brand of the machines?
<Danco> Just standard HP's with brackets and monitors included
<lotuspsychje> nice :p
<lotuspsychje> hp will do fine with ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> good linux support
<Danco> Runs quite smooth altogether. But I'll get back to work, thank you again for informing me, and again, I wish you the best of luck!
<lotuspsychje> Danco: laters!
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> wb
<mcphail> Has the Amazon Search function generated enough income to justify the loss of faith in the privacy and security of data on Ubuntu?
<TJ-> money doesn't justify prostitution :)
<SeriouslyLaugh> all it did was prove that everyone has a price
<mcphail> Sad to see users opting for arch over Ubuntu because of this
<TJ-> a few maybe, most rational actors who don't like it simply disable/uninstall it
<SeriouslyLaugh> it's the equivilant of when an installer tries to sneak in a weather bug or coupon app
<TJ-> I think the biggest objection to it was that it was opt-out, not opt-in, and *hard* to opt-out originally
<mcphail> Yes, the reputational damage exceeds the actual insult
<TJ-> And most people knew the reason for it being opt-in is that Canonical wanted inertia to mean most users would leave it as-is
<mcphail> It has been depressing to see mozilla taking the same approach
<TJ-> If they'd been up-front and said: "Look, Canonical needs some return on the huge investment Shuttleworth has put in to get this far, can we enable this Amazon search addition because if you buy from them we'll get a commission" I think most people would have readily supported it
<TJ-> This is the problem with the 'free-beer' mentality; users get a sense of entitlement ... want everything for nothing
<TJ-> Funny thing is those same users, in the my experience, have no problem being Google's or Facebook's Product
<mcphail> Neither Google nor Facebook get root access to your life archive, though. The bar has to be set higher for an OS
<mcphail> And mozilla ere downright duplicitous, in my opinion. Google and Facebook were always honest about their plans
<TJ-> Errr, Facebook 'knows' a lot more about its users than their own PCs do
<SeriouslyLaugh> personally, i'm less concerned with the privacy issue
<SeriouslyLaugh> just the bloatware sucks. the concept of it.
<SeriouslyLaugh> feels like it cheapens the product
<SeriouslyLaugh> regardless of how actually bloated it may or may not be
<SeriouslyLaugh> just seeing the little icon there is a reminder that everyone has a price
<TJ-> Well... finally.. I've identified the last build of gcc that supported the i586: 10.04 Lucid
<TJ-> finally! 24+ hours later, I have plopkexec booting correctly on an i586 class CPU
<daftykins> TJ-: :D
<daftykins> TJ-: looks like i'll be selling that HTC shortly and sending it up to England, so if you needing anything else... :)
<TJ-> haha! No, I've got that underway as well, now I understand what it needs
<daftykins> cool :)
<daftykins> decided it's worth about Â£150, but not mine to sell so no profit to me!
<TJ-> Basically, I need to build a placebo package that provides the classes/services that are part of the Sense framework
<TJ-> that's a bit of depreciation :O
<daftykins> i just went by what ebay and amazon have listed
<TJ-> yeah, electronic devices are like vehicles. As soon as they arrive they lose 15% value
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> did you see my mention earlier about the 20 year old bug I hit that is in every package every built by Debian, Ubuntu and all other deried distros?
<daftykins> i did not :O
<daftykins> still waiting (im)patiently for that Nexus 5 screen to show up :)
<TJ-> I've been having 'fun' trying to get a 10.04 chroot installed using debootstrap (that is the last version that built gcc with i585 support).
<TJ-> The debootstrap kept failing when it tried to "mount -t proc proc /proc" in the chroot, telling me the EUID was 1000, not 0.
<daftykins> hehe
<TJ-> after a lot of digging I found out the reason was that when debootstrap fetches the .deb packages, and extracts them manually with 'tar', the ownership info stored in the 'tar' is named-based e.g. "root:root" rather than ID based (0:0). So on a system - like mine - where root != 0 tar does a query of the passwd file to get the UID, and gets 1000 not 0, and installs files with that ownership
<TJ-> (1000:1000). Now, '/bin/mount' is an setuid binary, so when executed the kernel sets its Effective UID as 1000, and mount checks with geteuid() and bails out complaining
<TJ-> this is due to every package being created with using the tar '--numeric-owner' option, so it stores "root:root" not "0:0" as the owner.
<TJ-> that's done by the core dpkg-deb/dpkg-buildpackage tooling, that's been around since Debian started
<EriC^^> TJ-: a user gets a grub shell after choosing his os in grub
<EriC^^> if he types configfile (hd0,gpt5)/boot/grub/grub.cfg it boots
<EriC^^> grub shows the $root as (hd0,gpt2) , which is actually the efi partition
<EriC^^> /boot/efi/EFI/grub/grub.cfg shows search.fs_uuid e534f420-36db-491c-8db8-dc5b770db499 root hd1,gpt5
<EriC^^> *hd1
<EriC^^> what do you think it could be?
<TJ-> EriC^^: sounds like "grub-install" has written the wrong root value into the core.img (grubx64.efi), and needs re-doing
<EriC^^> we just chrooted and ran grub-install and update-grub
<TJ-> with an /EFI/grub/grub.cfg in place? That might trigger it setting the core root=hd0,gpt2
<TJ-> try moving that file out (don't delete it yet) so GRUB won't find it in the EFI-SP, then re-do the grub-install
<EriC^^> TJ-: he says $prefix shows (hd0,gpt2)/EFI/ubuntu
<EriC^^> how odd is that?
<TJ-> remember that GRUB set's root= to the file-system that contains its grub.cfg, so if it finds one in the EFI-SP, it may well use that instead of the 'real' one in the GRUB /boot/grub/ location
<EriC^^> he doesn't even have an ubuntu dir, he has /EFI/grub
<TJ-> Not an Ubuntu install then, or a manual install
<EriC^^> elementary os
<TJ-> Yes, he tried getting help in #ubuntu earlier
<daftykins> friggin' elementary, my dear Watson
<EriC^^> lol daftykins
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-26
<pauljw> i see it's going to be a loooong weekend in #ubuntu
<daftykins> the winter is definitely bringing the social justice warriors in.
<pauljw> yeah... i've noticed
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> g'mornin' sir
<daftykins> just got that new Tomb Raider game :O https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ghcu8ifx8cj1htq/AADOrNs0b6FyRdsX8T7nc02ea?dl=0
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: how's this for Â£200 delivered? :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/pb5y567wd9isf6h/lenovo.png?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> wow cheap
<daftykins> mmm, haswell, 6GB RAM, 1TB HDD - pretty darn good
<lotuspsychje> nice lara graphs too :p
<lotuspsychje> wonder what the price would be without win and hd :p
<daftykins> i did try once or twice to get the refund for not using Windows, but lots of places refused
<daftykins> i don't think it'd work out to much really
<lotuspsychje> i hope more barebone shops rise in the future :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> daftykins that's a fantastic price
<daftykins> benefits of having a government with no VAT!
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<SeriouslyLaugh> first thing i would do is swap that hdd out though. that'll be your biggest botleneck.
<SeriouslyLaugh> that or the nic -- grab an 802.11ac nic
<OerHeks> kill that realtek nic indeed
<daftykins> that depends who is going to end up getting it really
<daftykins> i could easily make Â£50 back by just selling it on as-is, maybe with a clean install so it actually gets the performance the hardware can give
<lotuspsychje> would work fine on winblows indeed
<daftykins> the person i bought that 27" 2560x1440 Â£160 LCD for could probably use this machine
<daftykins> haswell would drive that res fine over HDMI
<SeriouslyLaugh> i'm not really a gamer, so there is no appeal for me in anything over 1080p at the moment
<SeriouslyLaugh> not until they start mass producing 4k content
<SeriouslyLaugh> films, that is
<daftykins> it's not anything to do with gaming in the slightest, it's for a guy to see CAD drawings in better detail
<SeriouslyLaugh> ah yes -- awesome
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> cant get any cheaper then this for sure
<lotuspsychje> good deal
<daftykins> should've seen my face, i only visited amazon quickly to check the days deals
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> :p
<pauljw> gnite all
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvRrXZyzny8
<lotuspsychje> i wonder how system76 deals with 15.05 to 15.10 black screen upgrades
<lotuspsychje> and will they put xenial on their machines in april?
<OerHeks> i still wonder why the fix is not out ..
<lotuspsychje> wich fix OerHeks
<OerHeks> for that ati + 15.10 black screenissue
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ive read that the new amdgpu is bit dissapointing also
<lotuspsychje> not getting the performance they promised
<OerHeks> oh
<lotuspsychje> lemme find link
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3008622/linux/amds-radeon-software-crimson-doesnt-live-up-to-the-hype-on-linux.html
<SeriouslyLaugh> wow, that was a scathing review lotuspsychje
<SeriouslyLaugh> looks like junk
<lotuspsychje> says phoronix benchmark
<lotuspsychje> so should be trusted right?
<lotuspsychje> maybe we should wait the real field experiences also
<OerHeks> oh .. the performance changes were regressions
<lotuspsychje> well the good thing is things are moving
<lotuspsychje> they might actually do some more work on it :p
<lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> yowza ^2 lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> grmbl
<lotuspsychje> so much confusing on users on upgrades
<lotuspsychje> they all think newer is better
<cfhowlett> the download sites clearly state "LTS recommended" - or at least Ubuntustudio does.  I consider the interim releases to be "test versions" but that conflicts with the official narrative.
<lotuspsychje> yeah i have same opinion
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: i was discussin earlier system76 machines with 15.04, wondering how they would deal with upgrade to 15.10 black screens and such
<cfhowlett> did/do they offer a working solution?
<lotuspsychje> not on their site they dont
<lotuspsychje> so and what will they do on april? put xenial on their boxes or not? im curious
<lotuspsychje> i would be affraid to put non-lts on mass user machines
<cfhowlett> I submit for consideration: OEMs should ONLY LTS versions.
<lotuspsychje> agree
<lotuspsychje> checkout system76 unboxing youtubes
<lotuspsychje> they preload ubuntu in a setup screen==>language/location/name==>15.04
<daftykins> it is pretty shocking how they don't learn the LTS difference, definitely a case of youngsters not reading the website imo
<daftykins> though i think the difference is a lot more hidden than it used to be
<lotuspsychje> well its really a 'latest' thing
<lotuspsychje> ppl always turn themselfs crazy on latest
<daftykins> *nod*
<lotuspsychje> in april, everyone gonna get crazy on xenial too
<daftykins> the ones that want to install the latest kernel from kernel.org drive me crazy :P
<lotuspsychje> thinking its latest :p
<daftykins> "but the numer is bigger!"
<daftykins> *number
<lotuspsychje> yeah i dont messa round with mainline
<cfhowlett> new distro release: Ubuntu4Idiots: the linux that protects the user from ... the user
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> oh by the way xenial gonna get 4.4 kernel
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: a guest distro :p
<lotuspsychje> wouldnt be such a bad idea actually!
<lotuspsychje> hide the admin from lightdm.conf
<lotuspsychje> and only guest allowed lol
<cfhowlett> kiosk mode only
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<cfhowlett> that's actually not a terrible idea!
<lotuspsychje> cant mess up, and cleanup after logout!
<cfhowlett> Nubuntu: ubuntu for Noobs!
<lotuspsychje> wahahaha
<lotuspsychje> Nubuntu 17.04 'Naive Noob'
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: one day you will hit the jackpot with your ideas :p
<cfhowlett> for sure.
<lotuspsychje> <Spethus> i relly hate the way windows 10 has gone it has given me good reason to explore linux as an alternative
<lotuspsychje> these are the lines i wanna read every day!!!
<cfhowlett> yeah, but somehow he wound up with zorin ...
<lotuspsychje> yeah, how are we gonna promote ubuntu best :p
<lotuspsychje> they all come to mint or zorin or nubuntu heh
<SeriouslyLaugh> lotuspsychje i think that user might be a troll. they PMed me
<lotuspsychje> maybe we should create a blog, mentioning ubuntu is the best of all distro's
<SeriouslyLaugh> fwiw
 * lotuspsychje hands over the magic troll potion to SeriouslyLaugh 
<cfhowlett> I would but I hate to get into the religious debates about "LINUX" "GNU" etc, etc
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: welcome mate
<SeriouslyLaugh> honestly I use a spin of ubuntu, not ubuntu itself. but a lot of users of that distro have most of their troubles with upstream stuff
<d21anthony> Hey there!
<lotuspsychje> what spin SeriouslyLaugh
<SeriouslyLaugh> elementary OS
<lotuspsychje> not bad
<cfhowlett> *HERETIC!*
<SeriouslyLaugh> by troubles i just mean general linux questions
<SeriouslyLaugh> like 'will this app run on elementary OS'
 * cfhowlett looks around for tar and feathers ...
<lotuspsychje> :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> and i'm like...if it'll run on Ubuntu it'll run on elementary OS
<SeriouslyLaugh> so i've been lurking here for the past few days to get a feel for the ubuntu community
<d21anthony> Is there anyone using 15.10 out there?
<SeriouslyLaugh> helping where i can
<cfhowlett> so random question: why are you in #ubuntu not in #elementary???
<SeriouslyLaugh> i'm in #elementary
<SeriouslyLaugh> it's a graveyard
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: im sticking to LTS
<d21anthony> I installed it to see if there was some new jazz for unity - but nothing impressive
<SeriouslyLaugh> which kernel does 15.10 ship with? is it above 4 yet?
<SeriouslyLaugh> or 3.19ish
<d21anthony> yeah I think it's 3.19
<SeriouslyLaugh> ok
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<d21anthony> I lied, 4.2.0-18-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 3.19.0.33.32 (vivid), package size 2 kB, installed size 27 kB
<d21anthony> just did a uname -r
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.2.0.19.21 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 10 kB
<SeriouslyLaugh> there ya go
<d21anthony> they must have updated recently. Because I had to update vagrant recently
<d21anthony> so here's a some what noob question but curious to hear others opinions. How long do you wait to update to the newest LTS (16.04) after it's been released
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: april 2016 officially
<lotuspsychje> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<cfhowlett> d21anthony, I wait for the first point release, i.e. 16.04.1
<d21anthony> I usually try to wait 6 mo's but is that over cautions
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: but you can test already now also, and help solving bugs also
<SeriouslyLaugh> 0day all the way
<cfhowlett> but while waiting, I put the 16.04 in a virtualbox
<SeriouslyLaugh> ^
<SeriouslyLaugh> in a VM
<d21anthony> gotcha
<daftykins> SeriouslyLaugh: community? well there is one vs. elementary ;)
<lotuspsychje> im running it in developer version daily build and its already rock stable
<d21anthony> The wierd thing about 16 is the unity 8 versus unity 7 adjustment capability
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: unity8 will come on 16.10
<SeriouslyLaugh> daftykins amen
<d21anthony> is there really any difference from a user desktop perspective?
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: unity8 is still being worked on for desktop
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: not yet to say, where this will end
<lotuspsychje> ive tested unity8 on xenial and still looks like the phone version
<d21anthony> Are you tesing in vm enviroments
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: no, physical on my desktop pc
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: works like a charm already :p
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: but things can still break in this stage right
<d21anthony> is there any common packages that don't work in your current enviroment
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: i only do this for testing and help bugging out
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: not on my system yet
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: just found 1 bug that been hunting me on all ubuntu versions so
<lotuspsychje> nothinng really xenial specific
<d21anthony> interesting. I'll have to test it out on one of my dud boxes
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: yes please do
<lotuspsychje> got libreoffice5 and newest firefox
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 42.0+build2-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 43117 kB, installed size 103047 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 42.0+build2-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 43094 kB, installed size 104555 kB
<lotuspsychje> ah they all on 42 now
<lotuspsychje> good
<d21anthony> It's kinda funny cuz I was die hard Firefox for years, then chrome had the awesome dev suite integrated and now I'm back on firefox. Chrome was bugging out for a while on 15.04 and crashed the whole os forcing a hard boot. :(
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: use LTS for stable experience :p
<d21anthony> Firefox / mozilla released a propaganda email or some splash page with the general jist that they aren't collecting all your info for big data. I'm assuming thumbing their noses at Chrome
<d21anthony> Open source it is
<lotuspsychje> chromium here also :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> firefox is weaved into gnome very nicely as well
<SeriouslyLaugh> the smooth scrolling is great, and lots of features
<SeriouslyLaugh> but i'm a chrome user
<SeriouslyLaugh> at this point it's purely out of habit
<lotuspsychje> well with adobe flash dying on linux
<lotuspsychje> something will happen for sure
<SeriouslyLaugh> microsoft edge is actually quite beautiful
<d21anthony> yeah the dev tools are still a little bit better. But I really dig Firefox's mobile emulator
<SeriouslyLaugh> as soon as they allow addons that will probably gain traction
<d21anthony> Edge is gaining traction. I wonder if there'll ever be a port for that on linux :)
<d21anthony> maybe wine it
<SeriouslyLaugh> do you guys typically provide support for desktop environments outside of unity, or do you typically defer users to other channels?
<SeriouslyLaugh> like if someone had a question about ubuntu gnome, would we send them away?
<lotuspsychje> SeriouslyLaugh: we have #ubuntu-gnome yes
<SeriouslyLaugh> great, thanks
<lotuspsychje> no answer there, they can always come back
<lotuspsychje> we try to make the dead channels back alive again
<lotuspsychje> otherwise #ubuntu will be a mess with specific issues from all flavors and windowmanagers
<lotuspsychje> !flavors
<ubot5> !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, !Xubuntu and !Lubuntu are simply flavors of Ubuntu that come with GNOME, KDE, Xfce, and LXDE (respectively) installed as default, instead of Unity. Other specialized flavors of Ubuntu include !Edubuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, and !Mythbuntu.
<lotuspsychje> but also #i3 and such
<lotuspsychje> SeriouslyLaugh: the way i do, is check if specific channel exists
<SeriouslyLaugh> good idea
<lotuspsychje> SeriouslyLaugh: small channel cant help much right
<d21anthony> hmmm - I've never heard of Studio ubuntu before
<lotuspsychje> then we have ##hardware #netfilter ##networking ##httpd #openssh to redirect users
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: its an ubuntu music station flavor
<d21anthony> huh, it looks pretty cool.
<d21anthony> Wish I had time to jump down every rabbit hole I find
<lotuspsychje> it sure is, but you can grab those music apps on regular ubuntu also
<SeriouslyLaugh> yeah it's a weird distro
<SeriouslyLaugh> in that it appears to be a collection of applications
<SeriouslyLaugh> as opposed to something like Deepin, which is an entirely fresh spin on the entire concept of a desktop environment
<lotuspsychje> i like vanilla ubuntu best
<SeriouslyLaugh> seriously you guys should try Deepin OS in a virtual machine and just play with the settings panel
<SeriouslyLaugh> it's remarkable
<lotuspsychje> SeriouslyLaugh: im too addicted to unity :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> the website and installer is full of broken english but i've never seen an OS like that before
<SeriouslyLaugh> all of the system settings can be changed via a notifications-like area, similar to Windows 10
<d21anthony> Deepin's got a dock station out of the box. That's pretty cool. I'm running a version of lubuntu (KDE) it's definitely not as user friendly as unity
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-568865930
<lotuspsychje> my xenial box
<d21anthony> nice
<d21anthony> what is the app with the x - an upgraded x chat?
<lotuspsychje> !info hexchat
<ubot5> hexchat (source: hexchat): IRC client for X based on X-Chat 2. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.10.1-2 (vivid), package size 386 kB, installed size 1195 kB
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: xchat is not maintained anymore
<d21anthony> really.... oops.. :) it's still a fine piece of software. I'll have to upgrade apparently
<lotuspsychje> not upgrade, purge xchat and install hexchat
<d21anthony> right on
<d21anthony> I love the system monitor for the tool bar - it's a life savor for the ocd
<lotuspsychje> d21anthony: alot of nice stuff exist: search your terminal with apt-cache search indicator
<daftykins> why are we talking about all the silly ubuntu derivative distros? :)
<lotuspsychje> the new guys love them :p
<SeriouslyLaugh> well someone asked about ubuntu studio in the main channel
<SeriouslyLaugh> and i got lost in Deepin's dreamy eyes
<SeriouslyLaugh> it calls me like a siren
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje slap SeriouslyLaugh back to reality
<daftykins> it'll have you smash up on some rocks like a Siren, too
<lotuspsychje> haha
<SeriouslyLaugh> heh
<d21anthony> lotuspsychje: aptoncd is freak'n awesome
<lotuspsychje> !yay | d21anthony
<ubot5> d21anthony: Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> im im off to spa sauna jacuzzi
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one all!
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> where's our invite :(
<OerHeks> the cake is in the oven.
<daftykins> ooh what kind?
<OerHeks> just a yellow one, nothing special
<OerHeks> full creamy butter, not that pseudobutter stuff
<OerHeks> those make you fat
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> cake is now double height ..
<OerHeks> nom nom nom
<daftykins> it's growing!
<OerHeks> nearly tripple height now, it should not rise any further ..
<OerHeks> cake is born, needs to cool down for an hour ..expected lifetime one hour ..
<OerHeks> .. why wait, ehh?
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hi
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<lotus|xenial> good afternoon to all
<EriC^^> hey lotus|xenial
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotus|xenial> hey EriC^^
<lotus|xenial> all fine here mate
<lotus|xenial> checking xenial updates
<EriC^^> cool
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: i was also testing out unity8/mir on xenial the other day
<EriC^^> how is it?
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: still looks like the phone model, but already nice
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: desktop version is being worked on
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> 16.04 will have unity 8?
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: no, 16.10
<EriC^^> oh ok
<lotus|xenial> xenial will have unity7 and kernel 4.4
<lotus|xenial> already rockstable here (for now) :p
<EriC^^> cool :D
<EriC^^> lotus|xenial: any idea about satellite receiver stuff?
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: very little but do ask :p
<EriC^^> the thing in front of the satellite dish seems to be bad, i removed it today it's like a round thing with 2 plugs
<EriC^^> i dunno, it has to be replaced? or can i give it a smack with a hammer or something and it'll work again? haha
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: how do you know its bad?
<lotus|xenial> 2 heads should be pretty strong
<EriC^^> it's similar to this http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1086584104_3/Satellite-TV-box-AML8726-M3-Support-CVBS-DVB-AV-LAN-WIFI-Android-4-0-Satellite-TV.jpg
<EriC^^> it's the while thing to the right with a plug at the bottom
<EriC^^> *white
<lotus|xenial> ah one head and 2 screws right?
<EriC^^> it's the same almost, but with 2 plugs at the bottom
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotus|xenial> how do you know its bad?
<EriC^^> well satellite stopped working on both tv's
<EriC^^> it's 2 different wires coming down, and 2 receivers
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: did the dish move with the wind?
<BluesKaj> its called a LNB EriC^^ , check it out with the dish maker on google
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: or does the model auto-turn?
<EriC^^> i dont think so, it looked pretty screwed on tight
<EriC^^> nope no auto-turn i think
<lotus|xenial> it doesnt need much, to be out of range
<EriC^^> the white thing did have a degree setting thing, but i don't think it has moved it was fastened tight
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: ok, thanks
<lotus|xenial> normally those dishes are pretty rough
<lotus|xenial> i would think contact of a cable?
<EriC^^> well the cables kind of fell off when i moved them, but i tried to put both inside well and same thing
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: tv shows nothing?
<EriC^^> maybe i should go to the roof and try to move the white thing and dish maybe and plugs and somebody sees if the tv shows something
<EriC^^> yeah, no signal
<BluesKaj> I use a bell tv dish with 2LNBs , one for each satellite, and HiDef  service
<lotus|xenial> i dont think its the dish or head, but could be wrong
<lotus|xenial> those things are pretty rough
<BluesKaj> seems like your cable connectors are kaput
<lotus|xenial> yeah
<BluesKaj> lotus|xenial, you mean tough
<BluesKaj> well gotta go ...vehicle needs servicing  for the winter ... BBL
<lotus|xenial> kk
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: check if the cable/connectors are wet from rain?
<EriC^^> i'll try to fasten them in
<EriC^^> brb
<lotus|xenial> kk
<EriC^^> well, that didn't go too well
<EriC^^> i fastened one, the other one i tried to put without the round tighten thingy and i broke the wire
<EriC^^> lol, let me see if one of the tv's work though
<lotus|xenial> ok
<EriC^^> nope, not working
<lotus|xenial> hmm
<EriC^^> i guess it's a bad head thing
<lotus|xenial> did you guys have rain recently?
<EriC^^> cause it stopped suddenly one day
<EriC^^> nah i think when it stopped it was raining
<lotus|xenial> you could go test the dish as whole somewhere else
<EriC^^> oh wait, im an idiot
<EriC^^> i didnt put the wire thing in the receiver when checking it on the 2nd tv
<lotus|xenial> :p
<EriC^^> nope still nothing
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: tested card in and out>?
<lotus|xenial> or you dont have satelite card?
<EriC^^> nope no satellite card
<lotus|xenial> ok
<lotus|xenial> plugout power cable from satelite?
<EriC^^> i didnt think it had a power cable?
<EriC^^> the actual satellite has a power cable?
<EriC^^> or you mean the receiver in the room?
<lotus|xenial> the receiver sorry
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> yeah, it's not working, no signal
<EriC^^> it loads up fine and stuff then says no signal
<lotus|xenial> if it auto turns, it will be hardware thing
<lotus|xenial> cables,dish or head
<lotus|xenial> if no rain entered cables or connectors, probably the head
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: you didnt touch 'source' button of tv?
<EriC^^> yeah i did
<EriC^^> apparently lnb's go bad pretty often
<lotus|xenial> doublecheck if its still on sattelite instead of hmdi2
<EriC^^> http://freesatfix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60488
<EriC^^> it's on satellite for sure, it loads up the logo then it says no signal ( not the tv the receiver's text thing )
<lotus|xenial> kk
<lotus|xenial> how old is that dish?
<EriC^^> good thing i got the thread though, it says you shouldn't unhook or hook cables with the stb powered on ( i think stb is receiver? )
<EriC^^> cause it can make a spike in the lnb and it wont work anymore
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/no_satellite_signal.htm
<lotus|xenial> looks like a good troubleshoot
<lotus|xenial> make sure cables and connectors arents damaged or corroded like on that link
<lotus|xenial> bbl good luck EriC^^
<TJ-> EriC^^: fixed your LNB issue yet?
<BluesKaj> looks to me like he needs new cables, my LNBs are over 10yrs old and still work fine.
<TJ-> First thing I always check is there's 19.5V DC present on the set-top box's antenna socket when its powered up
<BluesKaj> most have a rg59 connector on them, depending where he's located
<TJ-> then, connect the cable but leave the LNB disconnected, and check that 19.5V is present at the cable end at the dish.
<TJ-> if you've got the power at the LNB, and it doesn't operate, then open up the LNB and check the diodes
<BluesKaj> some are sealed , not easy to access the electronics
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: any more luck?
<TJ-> The 'LNB' is actually a frequency down-converter, from the very high frequency, very low power, satellite signal (which frequency would radiate and attenuate along the coax run to the STB, down to a frequency that is optimum for the type of cable
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: nope
<TJ-> BluesKaj: crack 'em open, there's always a way
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ- and BluesKaj
 * TJ- waves soggily
<EriC^^> TJ-: i'll get the lnb
<EriC^^> and give it a good whack
<EriC^^> i told lotus hammer first he said check other stuff
<EriC^^> :p
<TJ-> There's not much to go wrong in it, it's essential a tuned circuit and a power regulator, usually taking the 19.5V to 5V
<TJ-> I have custom converters made in China for my Wifi interference scanners; down-convert 2.4GHx or 5.4/8GHx to 450MHz
<BluesKaj> here the volyage is determined by the polarization of the transponder signal. either 19v dc or 13v dc
<EriC^^> well there's no white spots on it
<TJ-> right, usually defaults to 19.5V (18V nominal) for  horizontal
<EriC^^> screws are pretty rusted
<BluesKaj> anyway the only drawback to dish users is rainfade which happens only few times/yr around here...the local cable co's picture and res leaves a lot to be desired vs our bell sat service
<EriC^^> on the fastener thing
 * EriC^^ gets some wd-40
<TJ-> EriC^^: spray with some degreaser
<TJ-> Eric I once found the reason for loss of signal was a family of spiders took up residence in the horn, completely obscuring the focal point
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you dont think the head is lbn is dead neither?
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje , what's up ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: updated xenial packages, all working fine still
<BluesKaj> good
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: if it is, they're generally pretty easy to fix. Usual issue is the power regulator circuit, zener diodes sometimes
<EriC^^> damn wd-40 is in the car
<EriC^^> these things are really, really rusted on
<BluesKaj> quite stable here on plasma 5.4.2 as well
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: nice1
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: xenial gonna have 4.4 kernel
<lotuspsychje> and unity7
<lotuspsychje> 16.10 unity8
<BluesKaj> yes I'm favourably impressed so far,  fewer probs than Wily
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: we getting alot of black screens and acpi issues on both wily and vivid
<BluesKaj> not so much with the W10 update :-) ...wife wants to stah=y with W7
<BluesKaj> or upgrade rather
<BluesKaj> stay even
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> but in one year they wont support w7 anymore
<EriC^^> got the screws off
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, are those gpu driver issues with mir?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: not sure what messes up exactly, alot of recent drivers seems to fail
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: reverting to older graphics driver helps
<BluesKaj> ok , regression works sometimes
<EriC^^> if i shake it i can hear like sand inside it or something
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: clean it all out mate
<TJ-> EriC^^: could be the remains of a blown component
<EriC^^> TJ-: do i just use a flat head to remove the white ceramic looking head thing
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, what about your dish provider customer support, they should fix that problem for free
<TJ-> EriC^^: There are a lot of different fixing methods. I generally make sure the thing is warmed up and pliable (hair dryer helps that), and use a strong blade like in a box-cutter to work the thing loose without breaking anything.
<TJ-> Generally you can deduce whether glue was used on it or its a tight friction fit, or else internal clips
<EriC^^> holy fuck
<EriC^^> i pulled both sides with my hands after using the flat head for a while
<EriC^^> then it just exploded into 2 pieces
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> anyways there's nothing inside! just a metal
<EriC^^> a metal box
<TJ-> EriC^^: someone stole the antenna?
<EriC^^> no i mean theres a metal box but you can't open it
<TJ-> there must be a PCB at the socket end
<EriC^^> it's like cast
<EriC^^> there's a shiny thing  in the middle, but it has rally hard glue around it
<TJ-> Ahhh, can you see where the join is?
<TJ-> EriC^^: at this point photos would be good :)
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/4TflEvC
<EriC^^> it's pretty oxidized on the inside
<EriC^^> looks like it was found on the titanic
<lotuspsychje> yeah oxidized
<BluesKaj> it's cooked then
<TJ-> EriC^^: that might be the explanation for the issue - that is likely spread into the inside via the connectors
<lotuspsychje> watched to many aljazeera EriC^^
<EriC^^> nah the connectors are pretty clean
<TJ-> EriC^^: those types usually need some heat to open up. Can you tell if there's solder used or is it waxed in?
<EriC^^> the oxidation is mostly at the white tip thing, i noticed the sounds are coming from that area when i shake it though
<EriC^^> looks like it's white glue around it
<EriC^^> should i try removing the white tip?
<TJ-> see if warming ut up makes it pliable.. also, can you cut a small piece away with a knife?
<TJ-> EriC^^: tip? do you mean the horn cover? no... all the electronics is confined to the box. The antenna will be at the "AK-3" end of the feed horn
<EriC^^> i removed the connector plugs
<EriC^^> i think i screwed up though, i heard a snap and when i removed them they had some solder on the end
<EriC^^> removed most of the glue but it wont budge
<EriC^^> ill try a hairdryer and more man handling
<lotuspsychje> irc repair cafÃ© :p
<EriC^^> i removed the glue but it's not holding it together though
<EriC^^> anyways i removed the horn cover TJ- , it had a bunch of white powder inside which was oxidation i think
<EriC^^> the horn inside has some oxidation too, then it looks like there's 2 stainless steel rods way inside at the end, i've no idea how they got the pcb inside though,
<EriC^^> TJ-: i cracked it open
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/1uGOGqj
<lotuspsychje> lets hope no humidity entered on that board EriC^^
<EriC^^> removed the screws, there's nothing that seems to be fried inside
<lotuspsychje> ok
<EriC^^> imgur.com/nj8BHW3A
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/nj8BHW3A
<lotuspsychje> wrong link?
<EriC^^> http://i.imgur.com/nj8BHW3.jpg
<EriC^^> maybe i should check the other side
<lotuspsychje> looks rather good
<BluesKaj> connctors look corroded
<TJ-> That's a good photo
<EriC^^> wow on the other side there are 2 actual elements of the circuit that have rust on them
<TJ-> was that screwed down part a heatsink?
<EriC^^> i pushed them a little and they broke off the pcb
<TJ-> EriC^^: uhoh... photos or it didn't happen :)
<EriC^^> TJ-: it looked like it had 2 hex screws that adjust something, they put pressure on these white ceramic type pieces under them
<BluesKaj> must live in a city...out here in the boonies there's cleaner air I guess
<TJ-> EriC^^: ahhh, tuning coils likely
<BluesKaj> bbl
<TJ-> one of the problems with sealed units, if they've air inside rather than an inert gas, is condensation forms, and that causes rust unless the parts are wax sealed
<lotuspsychje> oldskool wax for modern technology
<TJ-> or lacquer, anything to stop condensation on the metalised parts
<TJ-> I like using pastidip
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<TJ-> Plastidip, even
<TJ-> mmmm pasti
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> shhh dont wake the doggies
<TJ-> haha! They got a massive scolding earlier on so they're behaving right now. Had just washed the kitchen floor and was out using the pressure washer in the yard. Came back to find 1 of them had opened the door and they'd trailed mud in - I was not a happy chappy!
<TJ-> This new RasPi Zero looks really neat. Amazing, and on the front cover of the magazine too
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/z6u073r
<EriC^^> those are the 2 rusted parts that fell off
<EriC^^> now to put it together so the guy at the shop doesn't go wtf when i ask for a part like that one :D
<TJ-> are they actually components, or spacers?
<TJ-> EriC^^: they may be graphite spacers (conductive). What did they connect? It may be cleaning them and the pads they sit on to make contact will solve the problem, if you saw rust there
<TJ-> EriC^^: if those parts were connecting the input terminals to the PCB that'd be very likely
<EriC^^> they were not next to the plugs, sort of up one to the right and one to the left
<EriC^^> anyways i threw the parts and put the plastic cover on
<TJ-> are they conductive?
<EriC^^> it was a fun learning experience though
<EriC^^> hmm i dunno i dont have a multimeter, i'd guess so though
<EriC^^> the upper plate had some odd metal stuff on the edges i noticed
<EriC^^> and they were really rusted
<EriC^^> ( the plate that had the tuning screws )
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/first-unity-8-custom-theme-is-being-built-496759.shtml#sgal_0
<pauljw> cool
<lotuspsychje> thats how untiy8 looks like now
<lotuspsychje> wb EriC^^
<EriC^^> thx
<BluesKaj> Xenial at one point was taking only 20csecs to boot, but now it's up to 2mins, anyone else have this problem
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Time to examine the logs and see what the gaps in time are ?
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, i chjecked , there doesn't seem to be anything that sticks out
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Humm .. boot to terminal and watch the boot messages ?? - I can stop the disaplay on my system - .
<ioria> hi all
<Bashing-om> \o ioria ; better now that you are here .
<ioria> Bashing-om, i'm flattered !!!! ^_^  i followed a lot of your articles on the ubuntu forum ....
<Bashing-om> ioria: Has been a bumpy road .. :) ; I make more errors in logic than I care to openly admitt .
<ioria> Bashing-om, :Ã¾
<BluesKaj> checked the syslog , seems /etc/resolv.conf and network manager are correcting each other several times before the internet gets cconnected, some kind silly loop thing
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: I have not used network-manager in ages .. not much use to you here .
<BluesKaj> well, i need nm for vpn
<BluesKaj> otherwise I'd use a staic IP and /etc/network/interfaces to do the job
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om,^
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: VPN adds another level of complexity . What results when VPN is not started ?
<BluesKaj> vpn isn't in the system startup, i use it only when anonymity is needed
 * daftykins rolls his eyes at what is presumably London street talk
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-27
<daftykins> TJ-: nice 240GB value SSD on amazon UK for Â£39.99 delivered today ;)
<OerHeks> not bad :-)
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S9Q9VS4
<daftykins> low stats but it's not TLC, which is nice :>
<OerHeks> read 550MB/s - write 350MB/s
<daftykins> yeah, weak write as they go
<OerHeks> but don't look at the speeds, the 0 sec seektime is the real profit
<daftykins> ja :>
<daftykins> if i got that for the cheap Lenovo i bought last night, that's Â£233 for a pretty decent machine
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> check this one out sir ;) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S9Q9VS4
<daftykins> cheap model, but daym
<lotuspsychje> lets c :p
<daftykins> Â£33 delivered!
<daftykins> how was the spa/sauna/etc?
<lotuspsychje> wow sweet price
<lotuspsychje> very nice 3 hours + breakfast +jacuzzi +turkish steam and regular sauna
<lotuspsychje> i still have an old sandisk 8gig slc upsatirs
<lotuspsychje> fast as rocket
<lotuspsychje> hmm delivered to belgium
<lotuspsychje> does amazon sell barebones too?
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> barebone laptops are hard to find
<lotuspsychje> SeriouslyLaugh: morning
<SeriouslyLaugh> evening lotuspsychje -- happy turkey day
<lotuspsychje> lol
<SeriouslyLaugh> i want to play with the bot -- anyone know the command?
<SeriouslyLaugh> it's something like /msg ubot5 help
<SeriouslyLaugh> doesn't work
<lotuspsychje> !msgthebot
<ubot5> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubot5 Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubot5 !search factoid".
<SeriouslyLaugh> ty lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> or query ubottu
<lotuspsychje> nice, xscreensaver works out of the box now
<daftykins> alrighty, time to call it a night i think
<lotuspsychje> last time i tryed i had to mess with gnome screensaver deamon
<lotuspsychje> sweet dreams daftykins
<daftykins> thanks ^_^ your shift now ;)
<lotuspsychje> : )
<lotuspsychje> if we only would be payed for this :p
<lotuspsychje> well at least we have knowledge from it
<daftykins> they couldn't offer us enough
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> omg...
<lotuspsychje> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/24/windows-10-automatic-spying-begins-again/
<SeriouslyLaugh> there's a reason it's a free OS
<SeriouslyLaugh> JUST SAYING
<SeriouslyLaugh> blasted caps, sorry
<lotuspsychje> their killing themelfs..
<SeriouslyLaugh> nah
<SeriouslyLaugh> too big to fail
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt dare to say that
<lotuspsychje> linux will make a big jump out of this
<lotuspsychje> youl see
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | Bashing-om before sleep :p
<ubot5> Bashing-om before sleep :p: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Depnd on lotuspsychje to provide the best .
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Bashing-om> Retiring at this time . Will enjoy my cookies at liesure. Will return much later .. Lord willing . Take care til .
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> see ya all later
<SeriouslyLaugh> later
<TJ-> Grrr, when is 16GB SSD really a 7GB SSD!?
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<daftykins> \o
<TJ-> amazing, 100 PCU cluster running on 16 watts
<TJ-> s/PCU/CPU/
<EriC^^> hey TJ- , how's it going?
<TJ-> Good - now I figured out plugging the SSD in firmly doubles its capacity :D
<EriC^^> nice :D
<TJ-> should try that with the Samsung EVOs :D
<TJ-> did you get your LNB down-converter ... converted into a working model?
<EriC^^> nope, not yet :D
<TJ-> I'm trying to design a bulk rack mount for 100 of the new RasPi Zero boards
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> what will they be used for?
<TJ-> Build farm for ARM packages
<EriC^^> oh, cool
<daftykins> heya o/
<daftykins> one of the UK folks was doing something similar, never saw where the project went though
<daftykins> http://regmedia.co.uk/2013/05/20/32_way_raspberry_pi_cluster.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> hi all
<daftykins> \o
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> yeah, But the big Pi takes up a lot of space due to clearance for the connectors, and it's also difficult to create slot-in racks for them. These Zeros should be able to slot into a chassis that has fixed USB micro-power plugs for power and connectivity, only need  maybe 10 vias in a mount PCB to pack these Zeros in high-density mode
<daftykins> :>
<TJ-> better than the Ras Pi module in fact
<daftykins> teenager identified :)
<TJ-> OK, I'm shopping for old-style mobo mounted PC speaker/buzzer units on aliexpress (China's eShopping destination for components, etc.) and see a photo of one with a label on top that reads "REMOVE SEAL AFTER WASHING" !!
<daftykins> lmao
<TJ-> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-100pcs-Active-Passive-Buzzer-Alarm-5v-Sounder-speaker-Buzzer/1290577003.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_1
<TJ-> I'm so at a loss I can't move on :D
<TJ-> What DO those people think !?
<daftykins> i still haven't 100% nailed down this little CCTV 4 camera PoE system i put in for some friends, as the software is so badly translated
<daftykins> i know it's capable of being set to motion detected capture, whereas right now it's just recording constantly
<TJ-> Get a translator to help
<TJ-> Probably hire 10 on mechanical turk :)
<daftykins> well i'm not sure it can be switched to the original chinese/whatever to even do that :(
<daftykins> even the UI design is so bad it's illogical to even try fumbling your way through
<daftykins> i'd have to go and spend some time down at my friends art gallery i think to fiddle and test
<TJ-> :) the joys of world trade :)
<daftykins> yip!
<daftykins> very impressive kit though
<TJ-> I've been investigating some PTZ 30x optical HD PoE for here, to keep an eye on far-flung areas
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> oh was your weather station blown over the other morning by the by?
<TJ-> it fell off its pole and was hanging in its wires
<daftykins> erk!
<TJ-> alarm was going off around 0330 saying it was -27C outside
<daftykins> surely not o0
<TJ-> hanging upside-down the rain was getting into the electronics of the transmitter
<pauljw> that's funny except for that whole 0330 thing... :)
<daftykins> XD
<TJ-> pauljw: yeah, it was the night of the storm, so I was resisting going outside but eventually it annoyed me enough
<pauljw> that sucks
<TJ-> my own fault; I should have secured it better
<pauljw> other than that, do you like it?  i've been considering picking one up.
<TJ-> it's lasted about 9 years so far, just have to change the 2 AAA batteries every few months, it's about 250 meters out into the fields
<TJ-> the house station is useful and allows USB data collection so good for collecting and analysing weather vs crop yields and so forth
<pauljw> nice, what make and model?
<TJ-> hmmm! you have to ask the hardest question!
<daftykins> XD
<pauljw> lol, sorry
<TJ-> after all this time.. I honestly don't remember!
<pauljw> np
<TJ-> it's not got any model indicator on the unit
<pauljw> i have google
<TJ-> I think it's a rebadged Fine Offset WH1080
<pauljw> thanks, i'll have a look...  :)
<TJ-> there are much better devices, more accurate, nowadays
<TJ-> many are wifi enabled with embedded linux, which makes data collection so much easier
<pauljw> well, it's black friday, now you all know what i'll be doing this afternoon...
<daftykins> i've been shopping for days :( i swear i need someone to block me from amazon
<pauljw> lol
<daftykins> still, a Â£200 haswell i3 laptop, Â£33 240GB SSD and a bluray TV set for Â£60 down from Â£160 is pretty good :>
<pauljw> that is good!
<TJ-> hmmm... search for "speaker", site does 'related search' "Power Bank" ... it's that Chinglese again, I bet!
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S9Q9VS4 <-- still there even, bit of a budget model but worth a glance TJ- :)
<OerHeks> 10 of those in raid, njummie
<TJ-> they're SATA interface so no good for me
<daftykins> haha that could be quite fun actually, 6 ports free on my controller... Â£180 for 6 ;)
<daftykins> but no! :)
<TJ-> haha! I've flushed out yet another bug in core system tooling where it assumes 'root' = UID, this time in cryptdisks_start
<TJ-> " * LUKS_HDD_BOOT: INSECURE OWNER FOR xxxxxxx.keyfile" => ll -n = "-r-------- 1 0 0 4096 Sep  1 23:57 xxxxxx.keyfile"
<daftykins> am i totally wrong, claiming that this guy wanting to install 32-bit graphics drivers on a 64-bit host is not going to work? o0
<TJ-> which user?
<daftykins> tilpner
<daftykins> unless said user just wants to work with the libs or something, not actually use the driver *shrug*
<TJ-> Well, if the entire userspace is 32-bit that'll work on a 64-bit kernel, but he won't be mixing 64 and 32 bi userspace X server drivers
<daftykins> ah ok :) ta!
<BluesKaj> my 32 bit vlc version runs smoother on some difficult (read slightly corrupted) mkv wrapped videos than the 64 bit version
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-28
<daftykins> EriC^^: 'tis a long shift! how's you? :)
<Bashing-om> I be look'n how I can take up the slack .. Just about cinched in .
<EriC^^> daftykins: hey, i'm ok, you?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<TJ-> Would anyone happen to have, or have used, an Asus K8V SE Deluxe mobo. It allegedly has a talking POST (Power On Self Test) ability even if the CPU is missing, and I'm trying to play about with one not able to get it to talk to me :)
<cfhowlett> talking as in ... TALKING?
<TJ-> Yeah! It has a Winbond chip onboard that apparently stores sampled audio and plays it out based on the system's POST code numbers when there's a failure. There's even Windows software to replace the default messages with your own
<TJ-> I want to pull a stunt on someone ... give them the board and have ot say things to them even without the CPU onboard :p
<cfhowlett> you, sir, are a sick and twisted individual ... :)
 * TJ- sniggers evilly
<TJ-> But rather like our Huskies, this mobo is refusing to howl - Oooo! now there's an idea, a howling mobo :D
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<TJ-> well that was fun - just being playing cops and robbers chasing some people hare-coursing on the fields, cops are persuing them by road now
<pauljw> mornin'
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> it seems a shame that Kubuntu 16.04 takes 2 mins from grub to the login screen on my new Samsung EVO 256Gb SSD . it was really fast booying until a week ago after some upgrade mucked up the systemd start
<pauljw> ouch, that is a shame
<BluesKaj> I see the benefits of the speed after booting when switch apps etc , but booting is a mess
<pauljw> upgrades scare me, i had one this week that messed up my virtualbox
<BluesKaj> there are 2 /30 sec delays in the syslog with no data in between either of them, so there's no way of knowing what th eporblem is there
<BluesKaj> the problem
<BluesKaj> 14.04 is still nice and fast , but it's on an older spinner HDD
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> IMO 14.04 is the last decent Kubuntu OS ...plasma 5 has been nothing but a problem for me
<pauljw> that's a bummer, i always liked KDE.  does seem to be getting quite bloated lately.
<pauljw> my wife and daughter are on PCLinuxOS using KDE and so far it's going well for them.
<BluesKaj> good, nice to hear the ladies are using linux too. Wife is a W7 user and doesn't plan to change, besides her fav games aren't in the steam stable
<BluesKaj> my daughter used Kubuntu for a while on a laptop I gave her, but now she's on a new W10 laptop and seems to like it.
<pauljw> my daughter took to linux like water but it took me years to convince my wife to let me switch her to linux.  none of us are big gamers.  daughter is into art and does freehand, then scans in to gimp for coloring and manipulation.  taught herself gimp and is getting real good at  it.
<BluesKaj> pauljw, what's PCLinux OS forked from?
<pauljw> crap...
<pauljw> can't remember
<pauljw> mandrake is all i can think of but not sure if that's a distro or a software name
<BluesKaj> Mandrake Linux (now Mandriva Linux).
<pauljw> :) that's the one...
<BluesKaj> rpm package management.... not my cuppa tea, but if it works ....
<BluesKaj> who's to argue :-)
<pauljw> yeah, seems to work ok, and they have it set up to utilize apt-get so it's easy for me to remotely keep them updated and not confuse myself
<TJ-> BluesKaj: systemd provides specfic tooling to identify delays
<TJ-> BluesKaj: "systemd-analyze blame"
<BluesKaj> TJ-, sytemd-analyse: Startup finished in 11.609s (kernel) + 3min 635ms (userspace) = 3min 12.245s
<BluesKaj> looks about right, from grub to desktop, over 3mins
<TJ-> BluesKaj: did you use "blame" to see what was using the time?
<BluesKaj> nothing shows,  all actions are in ms
<BluesKaj> except for the first few, they add up to 10secs total
<TJ-> BluesKaj: can you "pastebinit <( systemd-analyze blame )"
<BluesKaj> TJ-, http://pastebin.com/aAxkPfMe
<TJ-> BluesKaj: are there any remote network file-system mounts declared in fstab?
<BluesKaj> not remote , just my outboard drive
<TJ-> but that PC is operating a samba AD ?
<BluesKaj> TJ-, i can pastebin the syslog if you wish
<BluesKaj> but it's huge
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<TJ-> BluesKaj: sure, if it has timestamps... how about find where the last boot started and paste from there?
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
<BluesKaj> TJ-, ok
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> anyone of you guys knows a free logo designer online?
<pauljw> sorry, no
<pauljw> brb
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: logo design is pretty easy with thinks like Inkscape (SVG)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but its nice to have it show business style right :p
<BluesKaj> TJ-, http://pastebin.com/dvjG5upY , looks like a couple of uuids are troublesome but not until the end
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: not disagreeing - just saying you an generate some very good logos using SVG and Inkscape, I've used it many times for such things. SVG scales to whatever resolutions you need
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ok ill look it tru
<TJ-> BluesKaj: nothing wrong there. Starts at 08:11.20 and finishes at 08:11.33 - after that it's the KDE stuff
<TJ-> BluesKaj: probably you've got that plasma delay bug
<TJ-> that timeout for the swap device might delay things, but everything else in the log doesn't indicate it is doing so
<pauljw> TJ-: does 14.04 not have a complete systemd config?  the analyze blame doesn't work for me
<BluesKaj> TJ-, damn plasma 5, it's nothing but a mess IMO
<TJ-> BluesKaj: "QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave."
<TJ-> pauljw: introduced in 15.04; 14.04 only uses systemd-login
<pauljw> ah, thanks
<BluesKaj> yeah , 14.104 is till on plasma 4
<BluesKaj> err 14.04 even
<TJ-> BluesKaj: yeah, this is 1 of the main reasons I didn't volunteer to work on Kubuntu - I was told by sitter they only do packaging and don't carry bug fixes in the distro - so the entire thing is beholden to upstream
<TJ-> And from what I've seen the actual, useful, code is often half-baked and buggy
<TJ-> Even stupid amateur things like not remembering the directory a File>Save-As dialog was opened at, which makes the user experience terrible
<TJ-> Got frustrated by that one with GwenView earlier, trying to copy individual CCTV capture files from the camera's NFS share
<BluesKaj> like I said earlier , seems 14.04 Kubuntu is tha last best
<TJ-> I'm not sure the KDE4 apps took care of things like Save-As either. It seems to be the devs are more interesting in glitzy effects than regular good efficient user workflow and experience.
<pauljw> brb
<MonkeyDust> yes
<MonkeyDust> but no
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: yes
<lotuspsychje> someone wants a w10 theme :p http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/windows-10-accurate-theme-released-for-almost-all-major-linux-desktops-496831.shtml
<MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje  gonna try that in my 16.04 vm
<lotuspsychje> lol
<MonkeyDust> :)
<lotuspsychje> brb laundry
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: do you have a working eid card reader on ubuntu?
<MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje  no, but a lady in my evening class has one, i'll ask her
<MonkeyDust> also for ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: tnx, if you can let me know wich type/brand
<MonkeyDust> ok
<lotuspsychje> thanks
<MonkeyDust> she also has working drivers, she said
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: nice, JanC explained me the other day some chip works on ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: as we have same country, thought to ask you too :p
<MonkeyDust> Belgium, 'the world's most boring country', is on the frontpages again ;-)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> big wafle sales!!!
<lotuspsychje> or do you mean another headline ? :p
<MonkeyDust> last time was in 1995 or -96, with that child abusing criminal
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about Ubuntu security updates.
<lotuspsychje> there was a recent dpkg exploit, everyone update to latest
<TJ-> If there any of those 'old style' packages in the archives I'd be surprised, and there's no privilege escalation, only software dev's will generally be using 'dpkg-deb'
<lotuspsychje> yeah well i rather keep updated :p
<TJ-> agreed, but it's not an OMG! stop everything type of vulnerability. I'm rather suprised more such bugs aren't found in the dpk tooling, the code is a bit ropey from what I've seen
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> my god that motaka enervates me
<lotuspsychje> all this repeated questions
<TJ-> He's Iranian, and a novice, and dealing with something way beyond his experience with blind trust in us
<lotuspsychje> seems like it
<TJ-> that's why I focused on getting the remote SSH working via PuTTY, and checking things careful, because the symptoms were so weird. Glad you guys figured out it was an aborted d-r-u
<lotuspsychje> yeah ioria got that1 i think
<TJ-> it really does explain why the system got into such a strange state. I don't think I've seen a system that didn't regain the greeter GUI when lightdm is restarted.
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats real weird
<lotuspsychje> that 2500sec lag in conf
<TJ-> times like these I reall mis hands-on
<lotuspsychje> remote take-over?
<TJ-> being in front of the system for that kind of issue. I've had those described as 'black screen' only to find the monitor has gone DPMS off, or the GPU is driving an imaginary monitor, or the monitor is blinking its out-of-range LED
<lotuspsychje> yeah i also like the real system in front of me
<lotuspsychje> and find a way in
<lotuspsychje> mostly clean install fix alot :p
<TJ-> classic one is where there are dual outputs and the user has connected the monitor to the secondary output, but the GPU is driving the first only once the X server starts. Up to them both outputs are getting the console output so its not obvious
<lotuspsychje> big thumbs up to the guys that always work over ssh to straighten things out :p
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt like that :p
<TJ-> On reason I love linux and the logging; you can almost guarantee finding clues in the logs
<TJ-> so remote works even when there's no GUI. Impossible on Windows when the GUI goes funny, or log-ins crash
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> anyhow... I've got a talking motherboard here with a fault power driver circuit I need to trace
<lotuspsychje> ok :p
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<lotuspsychje> boxspring awaiting us
<daftykins> ah har freenode has calmed down
<daftykins> hey folks \o
<daftykins> looks like Kornbluth in Germany took a hit last night, taking me offline!
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-29
<daftykins> nice, just recovered a little old NAS that was doing nothing :)
<pauljw> gnite all
<SeriouslyLaugh> !bot
<ubot5> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-discuss's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg ubot5 botclone
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> greetings lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> motaka wining again about solutions for his borked system
<lotuspsychje> he's on 12.04 and tryed upgrade to 14.04 and got failed upgrade, now cant get greeter to load, cant do recoverymode,previous kernels fail to boot and doesnt want clean install
<lotuspsychje> prrrr
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, he's screwed then
<lotuspsychje> yeah told him he needs to clean install
<cfhowlett> wait, he STILL hasn't fixed that 12.04?  and STILL doesn't want to do a proper install?  back to windows XP for him then :)
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> <motaka2> lotuspsychje:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hlyu24or7uib64/IMG_20151129_132848.jpg?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: he's got 300 previous kernels in his list oO
<cfhowlett> sweet christmas!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<cfhowlett> clearly doesn't believe in spring cleaning, aka PEBKAS error
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: you need a w10 theme lol? http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/windows-10-accurate-theme-released-for-almost-all-major-linux-desktops-496831.shtml
<cfhowlett> read wha ... oh HELL no!
<lotuspsychje> :p:p
<cfhowlett> I saw that and said "meh!"
<lotuspsychje> he keeps talking and talking and no action
<cfhowlett> yeah, I see that.
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, I've seen his pattern and added to /ignore.  He's attention trolling.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> Hi cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> hidiho BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> :-)
<BluesKaj> BBL , gotta check something
<pauljw> brb
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: howdy \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> cor, 50mph winds down on the island here D:
<lotuspsychje> hows you mate
<lotuspsychje> yeah we got strong storm also
<daftykins> good thanks :D tad windswept though! yourself?
<lotuspsychje> fine here  tnx
<daftykins> just been to scrub up my other bike that i took away to Wales, as it'd been at my parents since
<daftykins> i'm being forced to take it back again so my folks can get their motorbikes in and out :>
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> oooh i can hardly wait for the week to start, to get all my deliveries ^_^
<lotuspsychje> the mobile glass front?
<daftykins> yep, plus the SSD, Â£200 Lenovo laptop and bluray Battlestar Galactica set i snagged in the sales
<lotuspsychje> ohhhh
<lotuspsychje> wich ssd was it?
<lotuspsychje> lol you buy dvd's?
<daftykins> 240GB SanDisk Plus, for Â£33 delivered. Low end, but still MLC
<lotuspsychje> ah right neat price
<lotuspsychje> and goes rocketfast also
<daftykins> i own exactly one bluray set right now, this'll be my second - i tend to splash out if it's a series i'd really like to see again
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: gonna run w10 on it?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: check qbittorrent :p
<daftykins> oh trust me i have my sources for such things, just didn't fancy it this time
<daftykins> ;)
<lotuspsychje> or gonna run linux on it?
<daftykins> well the cheap Lenovo is going to the guy i got that 27" screen in for, as it's new enough to drive 2560x1440 over HDMI - so he'll run 10 on it probably as he will be using it for architects drawings
<lotuspsychje> ah kk
<daftykins> i may be able to sell him that SSD to put in it, depends if he'll be willing to cover my time to do it - the machine comes with a 1TB spinner :>
<lotuspsychje> 1TB out and in enclosure and ssd in
<lotuspsychje> or does the laptop handle double hd?
<daftykins> most likely not... but yeah, could get an optical drive bay to put it in
<daftykins> or i'm sure i could make use with it in my special enclosure for my xbox otherwise ;)
<lotuspsychje> im gonna do that with ssd+ubuntu transforms on existing laptops
<daftykins> mmm, good way to keep folks data then
<lotuspsychje> plugout their existing mechanical hd and put in sata enclosure
<daftykins> i do find that's the most time consuming part of support tasks, just shunting peoples digital lives around before you can work :P
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> hmm that latest 352 nvidia driver seems to cause alot of issues
<lotuspsychje> had several users to revert to older driver versions
<daftykins> that could be why i don't seem to be able to get anyone's optimus setup working when i suggest it :(
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> the guy i just helped got optimus aswell
<daftykins> it can be a right tricky devil :)
<lotuspsychje> think it works best with optimus+340 or 346
<daftykins> mmm, probably ok when the mobile chip is an 'older' one that's already in 346
<daftykins> supported by 346, i mean
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what happened to the sattelite?
<EriC^^> haven't replaced the part yet
<lotuspsychje> im gonna watch klitschko vs fury in a bit :p
<lotuspsychje> he lost
<EriC^^> we have another satellite registration ( the local satellite distributor ) so it's ok
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys watching heavyweight boxing
<pauljw> bye
<daftykins> \o
<pauljw> hey daftykins and all
<daftykins> hey pauljw! hey EriC^^ :D sorry i fell asleep the other time i said hi :>
<EriC^^> :)
<pauljw> i've been in and out too
<daftykins> might be time to do that whole food thing i'm so fond of!
<pauljw> :)
<GrizzlyKolsch> Hi everyone - I'm new to ubuntu / linux, but want to learn more about networking and security. Are there any 'projects' you could recommend, so that I could learn using a hands on approach?
<daftykins> i got a good background by setting myself the task of setting up a wordpress website from ubuntu server a while back
<daftykins> the free course LFS101x on edx.org is also a good primer on Linux aspects
<daftykins> perhaps creating two VMs that can file share via samba would also be a good one
<GrizzlyKolsch> ah - I was thinking about edx courses. That sounds like a good idea to me.
<GrizzlyKolsch> cheers for the tips :)
<daftykins> i do so enjoy those users with the periodic updates
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-28
<ducasse> hi all
<daftykins> good morning \o
<ducasse> hiya daftykins - how are you today?
<ducasse> "where do you want to go today?"
<daftykins> Microsoft :O
<daftykins> not bad here thanks, i watched 'The BFG' earlier - it was great :D
<daftykins> most British folk of my gen grew up reading Roald Dahl novels :>
<daftykins> how be thee?
<ducasse> saw that at the cinema with my nephew - he loved it :)
<ducasse> i grew up reading roald dahl myself. i'm fine, thanks, drinking tea and taking it easy.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> buttered scones and coffee here :D
<ducasse> sounds good :) plans for the day?
<daftykins> i've been looking up options for wall mounting that expensive new TV, plus dealing with the old
<daftykins> so may pop up there later
<ducasse> ah, how big is the new one?
<daftykins> 65" using a 300x200 VESA mount - whilst the current one uses some annoying Pioneer own bracket
<ducasse> nice. i wish all tv's/monitors could use vesa mounts...
<daftykins> even when they do, they keep changing size XD
<daftykins> oh i need to return some shoes to amazon too, as they sent me the wrong ones
<ducasse> i'm going to look online for a wider desk, kind of want a third screen.
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> someime today i'm also going to decide whether or not to buy that receiver, need to check a few other options first.
<daftykins> ah exciting times!
<daftykins> i wonder if it's worth me popping in a shop or two to look at deals going on
<daftykins> not really anything i want right now though :)
<ducasse> there's always stuff i _want_, but little i actually _need_...
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> seems like there's still deals going on here, just after a brief look online...
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> yeah cyber monday now ;)
<ducasse> aha, ic. can't find anything very interesting, though.
<daftykins> seems to be a 5 bluray for Â£30 deal going on
<daftykins> not really my scene...
<ducasse> me neither. found an ok'ish tv, but the one i have is still functional.
<ducasse> besides, i don't need uhd.
<daftykins> you have to spend a fair chunk to get a 10-bit panel in one, the budget ones use an 8-bit so HDR is going to suffer
<daftykins> i was tempted but yeah, maybe in the new year - or later still
<daftykins> CES is January so maybe 2017 models will reinvent the wheel ;)
<ducasse> :) did you see the zen naming style?
<daftykins> ooh no as in AMD CPUs have been announced?
<ducasse> sr3, sr5, sr7. wonder where they got that idea.
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> hmm January 17th rumour too
<ducasse> i really hope zen will be good, but i'm not holding my breath. they can't keep this up forever.
<daftykins> indeed
<ducasse> how long has it been since they made something decent? 7-8-9 years or so?
<daftykins> especially after all the talk about the RX 480 and it ended up being yawn
<ducasse> i hear people complaining about the performance of their latest gpu models all the time, but i'm not familiar with them.
<daftykins> hmm can't imagine what that's about
<daftykins> my nvidia 1070 is lovely :D
<ducasse> i can imagine :)
<ducasse> how many outputs does it have?
<daftykins> now it's winter i don't even think the fans spin under game load
<daftykins> 3 x DP, 1 x HDMI and 1 x DVI
<ducasse> wow. can it use all at once?
<daftykins> 4 at once apparently
<ducasse> still good, most are limited to 3.
<daftykins> yeah although there's displayport daisy chaining
<daftykins> only seems to be on premium displays though
<ducasse> i've noticed, you need to spend a little to get that.
<daftykins> my ol' 1920x1200 displays will keep going for ages probably :) even have DP input
<daftykins> haven't even used the office in a bit since i brought the PC downstairs to try out on the TV
<daftykins> oof 20 past already, i best go do something :D
<ducasse> ok, have a nice day!
<ducasse> ttyl
<daftykins> and you :) \o
<daftykins> p.s. http://go.linuxfoundation.org/cyber-monday-2016 hmm
<ducasse> hmm...
<OerHeks> not bad pricing ..
<ducasse> not at all... AND you get a t-shirt! :D
<OerHeks> ... yay
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> hi, how are you BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, ok here, and you?
<ducasse> good thanks, playing with arch in a chroot. the installation is *ridiculously* labor-intensive...
<BluesKaj> yup, installed arch as few yrs ago, but I was disappointed in the OS , it was pretty ordinary for all the work needed to install, anticlimactic comes to mind
<ducasse> hehe :) i'm just trying it out in search of something for my desktop, and it's a more attractive proposition than gentoo for example.
<ducasse> in the end i'll probably stick to ubuntu, but it's interesting to look at how other distros do things from time to time.
<BluesKaj> I'm thinking about sparky linux for fun, seems like an interesting OS with the Deepin desktop
<BluesKaj> I'm not a gnome/unity or even mate fan and I'm tired of the restrictions plasma5 has put on KDE...I'd like to explore something new
<BluesKaj> I'll stick with yakkety as my main OS of course
<ducasse> i really wish there were as meny things available through ppas as through the aur, there's a lot of stuff i need to build myself now. that's mainly the reason i'm looking at arch for the desktop.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: hiya Bashing-om - good morning to you :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: And A fine day it is .. Hope your's goes as well .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup, been playing with arch today, setting it up on my desktop as a test. need to play with new toys now and then :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: welp, will get a new perspective on things, huh .. Change can be good . Nawwww .. I am old and set in my ways . I *like* it steady; LOL
<ducasse> Bashing-om: for 99.999% of things i use computers for, i want something that's quick to get going and just worksâ¢ - ubuntu is great for that. for this machine, though, i need a lot of personal customization etc, so it's worth a look. worst case, i drop it but have learned something new.
<Bashing-om> Well. You know my takes on fast and easy . I am fortunate in my needs that thus far the software repo meets all .
<ducasse> me too, so i might end up just compiling the rest in a container on ubuntu or somthing, right now i'm really just evaluating options. as i said, at least i will learn something :)
<ducasse> btw; bought the humble bundle unix books bundle today, lots of goodies there.
<NoImNotNineVolt> i was merely saying that "supported flavors are those flavors which are supported" is circular reasoning.
<NoImNotNineVolt> the reason i said this is because the class "Supported flavors" is defined in terms of itself.
<tgm4883> NoImNotNineVolt: Yea I suppose that would be circular, but where does it say that?
<tgm4883> !ubuntu
<ubot5`> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
<tgm4883> !flavors
<ubot5`> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
<popey> There's no circular logic there. It just lists what's supported
<tgm4883> NoImNotNineVolt: unless someone else said that, I don't see what you quoted anywhere
<NoImNotNineVolt> 20:34 < NoImNotNineVolt> so then it's not accurate that only ubuntu is  supported here?
<NoImNotNineVolt> 20:34 < nicomachus> NoImNotNineVolt: ubuntu and supported flavors.
<popey> I think you're being needlessly nit-picky
<tgm4883> wow
<tgm4883> popey: +1
<NoImNotNineVolt> to rephrase with context, nicomachus was claiming that the supported flavors of ubuntu are "supported flavors".
<popey> they probably meant "valid flavours"
<popey> this is quite possibly the best waste of time discussion I've had today. Congratulations.
<tgm4883> NoImNotNineVolt: also, that's out of context
<popey> (not everyone has En-US or En-GB as their first language)
<NoImNotNineVolt> perhaps i'm mistaken, then.
<NoImNotNineVolt> indeed, english isn't my first language either.
<tgm4883> Since the previous thing that nicomachus said was the query for ubottu to state the suported flavors
<popey> technicall you could use "supported flavours" in two ways
<popey> 1) supported in #ubuntu (the context the bot used)
<popey> 2) supported by canonical (in that they are official flavours)
<NoImNotNineVolt> i wasn't aware of any distinction there.
<NoImNotNineVolt> is there one?
<popey> so saying "ubuntu and supported flavours (definition 2) are supported (definition 1) in #ubuntu" :)
<popey> sure
<popey> mint is not a supported flavour
<popey> nor elementary
<NoImNotNineVolt> by the channel or by canonical?
<popey> but Ubuntu MATE and Kubuntu are, because they're built using software from the Ubuntu archive only.
<popey> by both
<popey> one begats the other
<NoImNotNineVolt> ...
<NoImNotNineVolt> let me rephrase my question.
<tgm4883> to rephrase what nicomachus said, "The supported flavors are ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu <lists all>" NoImNotNineVolt: 'So then not only Ubuntu is supported here'  nicomachus "Ubuntu and supported flavors are supported here".    It seems obvious that the previous list of supported flavors doesn't need repeating a second time in < 5 minutes
<popey> mine is not supported by canonical, and thus is not supported by #ubuntu
<popey> *mint
<NoImNotNineVolt> i wasn't aware of any distinction between the two classes you noted. are their elements that belong to one set and not the other?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Now If I were real die-hard and really wanted it fast(er) .. there is LFS . Nothing can replace a made-from-scratch, compile-your-own kernel .
<NoImNotNineVolt> (note: things which belong to neither set do not satisfy the requirements stated)
<popey> no
<popey> however
<NoImNotNineVolt> so there is no practical distinction?
<popey> there are flavours which aren't _well_ supported
<popey> (in #ubuntu)
<NoImNotNineVolt> fair enough.
<popey> so we throw users at flavour specific channels
<popey> e.g. kubuntu, ubuntu server
<NoImNotNineVolt> also, while i'm here, i'd say that "derivative distribution" is a generally more precise than "flavor"
<popey> No
<popey> Incorrect
<tgm4883> popey: well if that's the definition, there is a 3rd level of 'supported'
<popey> Flavour is a very specific term
<popey> Derivative distro is another specific term
<NoImNotNineVolt> indeed, maybe that's where i'm getting confused.
<popey> they have different meanings
<tgm4883> 3) supported by canonical, via a support contract (ubuntu advantage)
<\9> derivative distro is something that's based on ubuntu
<\9> not necessarily supported
<popey> exactly, like mint or elementary
<NoImNotNineVolt> are flavors necessarily supported?
<popey> flavour = built from the archive
<popey> derivative = might not be
<popey> !flavor
<ubot5`> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
<tgm4883> flavors are supported in #ubuntu
<tgm4883> and their own channels too
<NoImNotNineVolt> so an 'unsupported flavor' is inherently contradictory?
<popey> yes
<popey> there is no such thing
<\9> well you could build your own flavor.. that's not going to be supported
<popey> no
<\9> and wasn't mythbuntu dropped?
<popey> you could build a remix
<tgm4883> \9: no you can't
<popey> or a derivative
<popey> but it wouldn't be a flavour until blessed by the tech board
<\9> ah right
<\9> so it'll be a derivative even though it only uses the ubuntu core
<tgm4883> flavor means it was blessed by tech board and built on canonical hardware
<popey> yes
<NoImNotNineVolt> coming from a non-ubuntu background, i must admit that i wasn't aware of this usage of 'flavor'.
<tgm4883> mythbuntu still exists until 2019 or 2021
<tgm4883> I'd have to verify
<tgm4883> AFAIK
<NoImNotNineVolt> previously, i had only heard it used in a sense to distinguish different families of distributions.
<\9> mythbuntu appears to not have seen a 16.10 release
<\9> 16.04 seems to be last
<NoImNotNineVolt> the perils of noun overloading :P
<popey> \9: tgm4883 works on it :)
<tgm4883> \9: mythbuntu hasn't done non-LTS releases since 14.04
<tgm4883> or possibly 12.04
<tgm4883> I'd have to look back
<NoImNotNineVolt> regardless, thanks for the clarification, and apologies for the pedantry.
<popey> hehe
<popey> np
<popey> fun times
<NoImNotNineVolt> in my experience, the devil is in the details :P
<popey> sorry for being grouchy
<\9> ah right
<tgm4883> popey: blame the mate guys for being grouchy, that's what I do ;)
<\9> it indeed hasn't
<ducasse> tgm4883: did you get any better performance out of the amd driver thingy?
<tgm4883> ducasse!
<ducasse> \o
<tgm4883> ducasse: not really, but kinda. I'm getting worse performance in Dying Light, but I'm getting decent performance when I run through benchmarks
<tgm4883> I've reverted back to mesa 12 and tried AMDGPU and AMDGPU-PRO
<tgm4883> and by worse performance, I've turned all the graphics settings all the way down and I'm getting about 25FPS
<ducasse> odd. did you try the amd forums?
<tgm4883> Not yet, I finished setting up GPU passthrough on my old card and was looking for someone else with DL to test
<ducasse> right. i don't really do gaming anymore, i'm afraid. personally i think amd retired fglrx a bit too early...
<ducasse> a lot of the people with amd cards who come into #ubuntu report they had decent performance with fglrx, now they get bad performance or only radeon works at all...
<tgm4883> Yea, unfortunately, I don't think this card was ever supported on fglrx
<ducasse> no, but it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu. but they might not have had resources to do both, i guess.
<tgm4883> ducasse: yea I see what you're saying, there should have been a transition period
<ducasse> i think that would have been better for users, but linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i was actually considering gentoo and compiling everything, but thought that would be too time-consuming. this machine is a 4ghz i7 with 32gb ram and all ssd's, but still...
<dax> "it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu" => fglrx was an absolute mess from both a user and developer side, it would not have been easier
<dax> "linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development" => i track git HEAD on the repository they're doing amdgpu development in. they're doing quite a lot of excellent work on it
<Bashing-om> ducasse: One thing for sure, with specs like that,  conserving resources is not a high priority ( trash-80 !) - lots of elbow room .
<dax> I have an AMD RX480. With DAL enabled, I get equivalent performance to Windows.
<dax> and that's on amdgpu, not amdgpu-pro
<dax> the main blocker right now is getting DAL into mainline Linux, which is proving to be rather Fun
<ducasse> dal?
<dax> Display Abstraction Layer. It's used for HDMI audio on Polaris, HDMI 2.0 in general, and future GPU compat in general.
<ducasse> ic, thanks.
<dax> but yeah, #radeon on freenode, amd-gfx@ on the FDO listserver, and https://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/linux/ for actual code
<tgm4883> dax: 16.10?
<dax> tgm4883: no, gentoo for this. significantly easier to get mesa and friends to the latest version
<dax> probably doable on ubuntu though, i didn't look too hard
<tgm4883> ah
<tgm4883> dax: there's a PPA someone has with mesa 13, but it didn't provide much better results for me
<tgm4883> so I'm probably missing something
<dax> probably kernel from that git link above, if you have the rest of the stack up to date
<dax> as far as I can tell all the DAL work is on amd-staging-4.7 right now, which is a bit unfortunately not-new, but i need HDMI audio so
<tgm4883> dax: ah probably, i was just running the 4.8 kernel in 16.10
<dax> yeah, none of DAL is in mainline yet
<dax> which annoys me to no end, but it's a whole heap of code so i'm not really surprised
<ducasse> Bashing-om: no, not really. i might still try gentoo on this machine, it has a spare ssd for things like that.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i better get some sleep, you keep up the good work!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: K; Thanks, sleep well . instead of 'sugar-plums' dancing through the head .,. well it be OSs :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'll be counting distros to get to sleep :)
<Bashing-om> har !
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-29
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.47.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<brushdemon> tfw
<ducasse> hi all
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<R13ose> Hi
<R13ose> I am still getting this: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60
<daftykins> oh well
<daftykins> ask in #ubuntu or #kubuntu
<R13ose> okay, thanks
<R13ose> How come Linux is not more popular?
<daftykins> values about freedom only get you so far, just look at the issues you can't solve :)
<R13ose> yes but other OSes have even worse problems
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> only for those who can't set them up
<R13ose> really?
<lordievader> Many people don't even know what an operating system is, let alone that there are more...
<R13ose> Microsoft seems to have a monopoly on pre-loaded OSes.
<daftykins> yep, naughty tactics
<BluesKaj> yeah, just try to buy a pc or laptop without an OS
<daftykins> it wouldn't save you much anyway, i remember when that idea started going around about declining the licenses on firing up a new machine and asking for a refund
<daftykins> at least you can custom build desktops and do whatever OS wise :>
<R13ose> How do you buy a laptop without an OS at a store?  I only find ones that have OSes
<daftykins> you don't
<daftykins> but you could go to a company that sells laptops with Linux, they do exist
<R13ose> examples?
<BluesKaj>  a friend managed to buy one, but he still paid the list price.
<daftykins> honestly this is too basic for you to be asking, use a search engine.
<R13ose> :P
<BluesKaj> R13ose, over here computers aren't loaded with windows until the machine is sold...usually  unless they're on sale
<lordievader> Dell used to sell Ubuntu machines, not sure if they still do.
<daftykins> yeah developer edition
<R13ose> I am never switching to another OS ever again
<daftykins> that's nice
<reconnect> any here?
<nicomachus> yes
<reconnect> what's up bro
<reconnect> can i do a question?
<nicomachus> sure
<nacc> reconnect: but note, this isn't the support channel
<reconnect> what u think about other distributions?
<nicomachus> I was gonna wait to see the question first. haha
<nicomachus> reconnect: I like a lot of them. Mint, Gentoo, Arch are all nice. Haven't tried many others.
<nicomachus> They all have their nice things and not so nice things.
<reconnect> nicomachus: cool
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
<EriC^^> hi pauljw
<daftykins> :O \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<pauljw> hey EriC^^ :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ! He's our man . What it be ?
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
<EriC^^> how is your evening going?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: You are having fun now . Booting issues to keep you occupied :)
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> you know me too well :D
<Bashing-om> Well, just glad you are on the channel to keep us all in-line . I am still way behind booting up EFI systems .
<EriC^^> i'm glad to be here, cozy bed smokes and chips
<EriC^^> the weather really took a turn this past couple weeks, at least here in lebanon
<EriC^^> did the nvidia work?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Well ., nVidia - yes and no .. But I am in a happy state with it . in 14.04 there is no open source driver support but even on the vesa driver the performance is better than with that old ATI card . 16.04 on the spinner has no issues with the new nVidia card .
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ^^^ but but but .. 14.04 on my minimal build my own - even after messing about a bunch with 16.04 - remains my perferred system .
<EriC^^> same here, 14.04 is pretty dear to my heart
<daftykins> last of the sane editions!
<daftykins> well, for server at least >:)
<Bashing-om> well .. I must tell the truth .. last sane edition for me was 10.04 ! Then came upstart and all the ither releated changes - not for the good .
<EriC^^> i've yet to try 10.04
<EriC^^> i'm pretty curious, many people say good things about it
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: But 10.04 was a long time in the past . It is history now . I am real slow about abou picking up on 16.04 - systemd .
<EriC^^> same here just the very basics
<EriC^^> i dont really know much upstart either
<EriC^^> just service .. restart and such
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> hiya Lotus !
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> hows the night been
<lotuspsychje> seems rather calm right now
<Bashing-om> Well was rather active .. and then the flow just stopped . lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> cool!
<Bashing-om> Too slow to keep my attention . G nite guys
<ducasse> ni all
<EriC^^> hi ducasse
<ducasse> morning EriC^^ - all well?
<EriC^^> yup, you?
<ducasse> still waking up :) got my tea and a smoke, so getting there :)
<EriC^^> :)
<reconnect> morning
<lordievader> o/
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> How are you guys doing this morning?
<OerHeks> hi lordievader, 2 s. better than max verstappen
<lordievader> Err, what?
<reconnect> lordievader: im sleep .-.
 * lordievader slides reconnect a cup of coffee
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i'm soon heading out, to look at amps/receivers. need something to play music at home, but very unsure exactly what to get...
<BluesKaj> ducasse, you can't go wrong with the less expensive line of higher end brands ...it's the quality you want, not a whole lot o bells and whistles that you'll never need or use. that's my outlook
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i kind of agree. right now i'm looking at a very discounted (but still a bit expensive) nad receiver, a smaller denon, and another denon mini-thingy with streaming etc.
<BluesKaj> yes ducasse, I think you're on the right track and I'm you'll be happy with any of those
<BluesKaj> sure
<ducasse> thanks :) think i'll head to the shop and give them a listen. either way it looks like i'll need to set up ubuntu on my pi :)
<BluesKaj> i had a NAD AM/FM tuner and it had the best FM station reception of any that I ever owned
<ducasse> nad is amazing, but even ~$300 discounted this one is expensive. thinking about whether or not i can justify it, it's a wonderful piece of hardware.
<ducasse> btw, fm is shutting down here next year.
<lotuspsychje> laters guys ; )
<Bashing-om> Here we go again .. we as I join in what yall are up too :)
<daftykins> welcome back :)
<ducasse> \o daftykins, BluesKaj :)
<ducasse> once more into the fray!
<daftykins> ^_^
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om daftykins
<EriC^^> ducasse:
<BluesKaj> not much here, atm just reconfiguring some video addons in kodi
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^ , daftykins
 * daftykins waves :D
<BluesKaj> thinking of cutting the Sat TV cord , but wife is still afraid to
<BluesKaj> our satellite service isn't very expensive, but Bell Canada just irks me ...
<daftykins> cancel all the packages, beef up the tubes and stream all the things :D
<BluesKaj> we just have a very basic HD and SD package
<Bashing-om> Looks like the gang is all here - lessin Lotus, that is .
<BluesKaj> yeah, the internet service will require changing providers
<ducasse> any of you use mpd and can recommend clients, both gui and tui?
<daftykins> newp (:
<ducasse> welp, guess i'll just start in one end of google :)
<BluesKaj> I use kodi for all media, now that i have it properly set up
<EriC^^> there's ncmpcpp or something
<EriC^^> yeah that's it, miraculously
<ducasse> EriC^^: thanks, i'll look at that
<EriC^^> no problem
<ducasse> i think that's the one that was mentioned in #i3 recently
<nicomach1s> huh. I didn't know #ubuntu-on-windows existed.
<Bashing-om> nicomach1s: Some discussion on ubuwin: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2318965 .
<nicomach1s> I want to make a PPA that removes all PPAs on a system.
<nicomach1s> just for the irony factor.
<daftykins> that used to be true because the PPA purge util people spoke of in #ubuntu was... in a PPA
<daftykins> 8D
<nicomach1s> which is why I thought about it.
<ducasse> ppa-purge should be installed by default on desktop systems, imho
<daftykins> pinkware-purge needs to be in development :)
<ducasse> pinkware?
<daftykins> users :)
<ducasse> plenty alternatives for purging users exist already :)
<daftykins> never enough!
<ducasse> we should have an orbiting laser cannon...
<Bashing-om> #1 way -> sic daftykins in them. LOL
<Bashing-om> in/on*
<nicomach1s> LOC?
<ducasse> we also need - urgently - a device to remotely slap users. i'm sure it would be popular with admins.
<nicomach1s> sometimes I just want a mirror to stick in front of users.
<nicomach1s> Like, "Look at yourself. Just look at yourself right now."
<ducasse> ...and the ability to make them comprehend what they just did/asked
<daftykins> it's ok, trolltrace will resolve all of these problems one day
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> daftykins: btw, bought play-music-thingy!
<daftykins> oooh
<daftykins> so it is done?
<ducasse> yup, happy-happy-joy-joy!
<daftykins> Denon in the end, or?
<ducasse> denon. basically just a small amp with a network jack + analog and digital inputs. bought it new for a decent price.
<daftykins> https://www.tig.gg/l46086-Marantz-Hi-Fi-separates-.php
<daftykins> Â£100 for a Marantz NR1504
<ducasse> "for steaming music"
<daftykins> yeah i enjoyed that :D
<ducasse> i'm very unsure what that would be, and don't want to think about it :)
<daftykins> no HDCP 2.2 but it's a pretty capable unit
<ducasse> i just decided to get something nice  when i can afford it, at which point i'll relegate this to a bedroom system. it actually sounds much better than i thought it would, so i'm happy.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> it'll be interesting to see what the new year brings
<ducasse> yup :) so far i'm streaming flac over dlna, which works well. i'll try optical from rpi+usb soundcard tomorrow, too late now.
<daftykins> yep can't have all the fun at once!
<daftykins> gotta ration it out
<ducasse> there are cables _everywhere_ now, i should probably do something about that :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-12-01
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: IRT : kw1234: try grub-install - no longer needed to give grub-install a target " as in ' apt-get install --reinstall grub-efi-amd64 ' ??
<EriC^^> it depends if files are missing and stuff
<EriC^^> grub-install without any arguments installs the efi files to the efi partition and adds ubuntu to the efi list
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: sounds good to me .. KISS .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Time enough in this session, yall take care.
<ducasse> hi all
<OerHeks> heya ducasse
<ducasse> good morning, OerHeks - how are you and drapper?
<OerHeks> Fine, just got in from the morning walk
<OerHeks> How are you? snowed in yet?>
<ducasse> i'm fine, the snow has actually mostly melted, but it looks like it might snow again today. my cat is sitting in the windowsill looking sceptical.
<myxo2> hey LambdaComplex
<LambdaComplex> hi
<lordievader> Good morning
<myxo2> good morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey myxo2
<myxo2> just looking for new linux channels to frequent
<myxo2> more to learn more to see
<myxo2> used ubuntu for probably 10 years now but never used irc much
<myxo2> is this channel fairly active?
<lordievader> Mwoah, more that others and less than some others ;)
<myxo2> all good, added to autojoin :)
<myxo2> gotta love ubuntu talk
<reconnect> good morning
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<nicomach1s> seeing a weird log on my server...
<nicomach1s> anyone wanna take a look?
<daftykins> nicomach1s: sup?
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<daftykins> hey hey :>
<BluesKaj> hey
<nicomach1s> daftykins: idk, it's just a weird log on the server
<nicomach1s> see: http://i.imgur.com/wDVeG6s.jpg
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> oughta run that by the log lady from Twin Peaks https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7ae5e6196bf2f3e76a3612ad84770982854666cf/0_260_3113_2372/master/3113.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=3a249444ef7a709ffdc812cc4054633b
<Bashing-om> Here at last ! Spent the morning dressing out a deer my nephew dropped off at OH-dark:thirty . The things we do for our kin-folk !
<daftykins> crikey! what's dressing out? removing it from his car?
<EriC^^> xmas daftykins
<EriC^^> eh Bashing-om ?
<Bashing-om> OH, mercy ! Get the hide off of it .. and cut the deer up and butcher the thing into some kind of shape to get it to where it can be cooked ( for those who do not like raw meat ) :)
<EriC^^> that was my second guess
<daftykins> ah har
<EriC^^> i thought you were dressing him up for christmas decoration
<daftykins> "madam, may i take your coat?"
<EriC^^> lol
<Bashing-om> LOL . Took a bit of time my myself .. but gotter done . Anyone for a good fresh deer hide ? .. only missed once with the knife and got a small slit in it ,
<EriC^^> i feel like a uefi salesman sometimes
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: As many times as you address that issue :) ... I have yet to encounter UEFI in real life here .. soooo no experience here .
<EriC^^> i have a difficult one on my hands right now
<EriC^^> (the user)
<Bashing-om> Well ,,you will make a believer of him . I watch over the shoulder and see what I too can learn .
<EriC^^> ugh
<daftykins> <eric> all of this AND MORE when you upgrade to a modern bootloader!
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> i'll get into "get him into shape mode" in a second
<daftykins> well ignore the bootloader bit, i'm too tired to think of an appropriate term :>
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> it's not that far
<EriC^^> CaptainQuirk> What are the prons and cons ?
<daftykins> *NSFW* :P
<EriC^^> CaptainQuirk: uefi is newer, and it's a tad quicker to boot (maybe 1 sec), also the bootloaders can coexist windows and ubuntu and others on the same efi partition plus you have secureboot if you want it
<EriC^^> the cons are some manufacturers use a wrong implementation and make it difficult to boot os other than windows, there are workarounds though
<EriC^^> what's nsfw?
<daftykins> not safe for work
<EriC^^> last time i saw that i think it meant porn?
<daftykins> yeah pretty much
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> it's pretty cold here
<EriC^^> 9'c
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 59 F (15 C) ~ Clear ~ Humidity: 27% ~ Observed: Thu 01, 15:35
<EriC^^> not bad
<EriC^^> what's it like in the UK daftykins ?
<daftykins> about 8-10 deg C in the day of late
<daftykins> had the heating on a lot :(
<EriC^^> i'm an idiot
<daftykins> ok i gotta sleep, eyes are properly worn out!
<Bashing-om> For this time of the year in this locale 59' F is great ! .
<EriC^^> i need to put the carpet on the floor in my room
<EriC^^> but the floor has sticky juice and whatnot and i need to clean it first
<EriC^^> ok, good night daftykins
<daftykins> note to self, buy EriC^^ a salesmans tie that has 'EFI' written all over it :D
<EriC^^> there's a cool command i came across recently
<EriC^^> how to check if secureboot is on/off from ubuntu
<EriC^^> mokutil --sb-state
<EriC^^> lol
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: The carpet will cover the mess ! Ain't that the bachelor way ?.. sweep it all under the carpet .
<Bashing-om> Good nite daftykins . Talk at ya later on .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Good one ! " Description: tools for manipulating machine owner keys " gonna make a note of it .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-12-02
<myxo2> had to regenerate initramfs for some reason, fixed it
<lotuspsychje> good morning guys
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey hey .. Welcome to the Zoo .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om crowdy beasts?
<Bashing-om> Yeah ,, tedious fixes with kernels . Them bad boys going behind the package manager's back and breaking the system .
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.51.54 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<myxo2> howdy all
<myxo2> omg, elonus isn't here somehow, i have to type his whole name
<myxo2> it must be the day of the vikings in norway or something, i don't know any of their holidays..
<myxo2> i started LFS yesterday, has anyone else tried it?
<ducasse> hi all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: o/ . Welcome to a wild and crazy day . Be ready for a wild ride .
<ducasse> oh, is it that bad?
<myxo2> ahaha
<myxo2> howdy friends
<ducasse> \o
<myxo2> what are we debugging today?!
<ducasse> nothing yet, i'm still waking up :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh .. Never cam tell what the poster is going to do . But the troll activity is nill :)
<myxo2> every day should start with  a critical error!
<myxo2> jk. my system has been seriously stable for months now.
<myxo2> i made the mistake of starting a peter frampton live in concert video
<myxo2> now i'm stuck watching for 30 minutes for one song
<myxo2> first album i bought as a teenager in like.. 1995?
<myxo2> arch could user some peter frampton? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrFKG-N7Log
<lordievader> Good morning.
<\9> myxo2: LFS as in linux from scratch? i built that a few times many years ago
<\9> taught me a whole lot about how linux works
<myxo2> yep \9, i'm following it now
<\9> i think it was also LFS which taught me to use the -v switch everywhere (i have all the basic utilities aliased to use that switch along with a few others)
<\9> nowadays if i run a command and it doesn't print exactly what it did i'll go all "wow what on earth just happened"
<myxo2> wish i could figure out why filelight has become the default for "open containing folder" in my qbittorrent instead of nemo..
<myxo2> filelight is useful but really annoying when that happens
<\9> i still haven't figured out how to alias things for sudo
<\9> sudo mkdir blah doesn't print anything and it annoys me
<myxo2> how long did lfs take you total?
<myxo2> and did you end up going the route of making a custom linux distro with your newfound info?
<\9> several days i think.. but i had quite the low-end pc
<\9> no i didn't go to make a custom linux distro.. the idea crossed my mind but that would've been too much effort for no real gain :P
<\9> http://askubuntu.com/a/22043 welllp
<\9> that solves that ages-old problem in 2 minutes
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Cat showing you how well she types ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: isp having problems, link bounces up and down
<ducasse> _really_ annoying :(
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yuk, think I would rather deal with the cat .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup. i know they've been doing some upgrades, that's probably the cause.
<ducasse> on the plus side they can soon offer higher speeds :)
<Bashing-om> Yup .. My isp did same .. speed now is unreal as what was with - dare I say dialup ? -
<ducasse> their plan is to offer up to 10gbps, which i kinda like :)
<Bashing-om> Mine is going fiber .. and 30gbps .. but to be truthful .. what I do on the 'net .. I can not tell the difference @ lower speeds anyway .
<JanC> metered or not?
<ducasse> unmetered here, our local isps don't seem to have taken an interest in metering.
<JanC> mine did, recently  :-(
<JanC> time to move to another one, I guess
<Bashing-om> Metered here, but the cap is fairly high .. we have not even come close with the whole family (6) active all the time .
<JanC> that also depends on what you do, obviously
<JanC> mine set a limit at 500GB, after which they downgrade the speed severely
<ducasse> that really sucks :(
<ducasse> i can't recall hearing about any norwegian isp doing metering, but i might be wrong.
<JanC> time to upgrade to another company, I guess  :)
<JanC> here most have done so since forever
<JanC> the one I use now was one of a couple that didn't
<Bashing-om> I gonna call it a end-of-session ;  Nighty nite good folks .
<JanC> ducasse: it really depends on how the national market grew over time, I guess, and maybe how the national government/regulator works
<JanC> a lot of ISPs here are metered, except for their own streaming/TV/etc. services
<JanC> which you have to pay extra for
<ducasse> makes sense. i know the regulators here are typically strict, so the isps might run into trouble with it.
<JanC> so it's really a problem of net neutrality here IMNSHO
<ducasse> absolutely, they can force you to use their products. that should not be legal.
<JanC> at some times the regulator has been calling things out, but they are practically toothless :-(
<ducasse> :( luckily they aren't here. telecoms etc are kept on a tight leash.
<JanC> any sanctions have to come from the ministry of telecommunications, so the regulator can only suggest them
<ducasse> doesn't that sort of defeat the point of having regulators?
<JanC> right
<JanC> also, regulators can't force unmetered, I guess
<JanC> most people probably never hit the metered barriers
<ducasse> wait for 4k streaming to get popular...
<JanC> oh, but they will offer that on their own
<ducasse> right, in the service that is 'exempt'...
<ducasse> that's dirty.
<JanC> one of them even offers Netflix as a service like that
<ducasse> 10:18 <lenswipee> ikonia, package manager is for noobs. i use terminal and sudo
<ducasse> dear lord.
<JanC> but if you would ever prefer another streaming service...
<OerHeks> hmm docker http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-and-docker-partner-to-distribute-docker-releases-as-snaps-on-ubuntu-510665.shtml
<lordievader> ducasse: Nice quote
<JanC> mostly for commercial docker, I think?
<OerHeks> jups, paid i think
<ducasse> lordievader: what _is_ it with these people?
<lordievader> ducasse: Well clearly he ain't a noob :P
<ducasse> lol
<lordievader> Must be a pure genenious!
<ducasse> he got kicked soon after, i'm sure he could solve his problem himself either way :)
<reconnect> good morning
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hey again pauljw :-)
<pauljw> :D
<lordievader> o/
<pauljw> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey pauljw
<Bashing-om> Busy in the main channel, huh ? .. lacking 35 to be 1000 users !
<\9> 2000, you mean?
<\9> it indeed is a lot
<Bashing-om> \9: Opps yeah .,. 2000 ! A lot going on while I snoozed ?
<\9> i haven't found it any more active than usual
<ducasse> \o Bashing-om
<\9> we had some kind of guy who thought he was above package managers because he was so pro at using terminal (and failed to use root to do anything)
<Bashing-om> well, then I just relax and enjoy the ride - see what transpires :)
<ducasse> oh, he was back today? :)
<\9> no
<\9> would've been too amusing if he was
<ducasse> me mixing today and yesterday, sorry. it's been busy here :)
<ducasse> 'too l33t for apt' :)
<\9> hehe
<\9> speaking of mixing today and yesterday, i'm gonna call it a night before today becomes yesterday
<\9> cyas
<myxo2> tar xvf is extract, verbosely, but can't remember what f means
<myxo2> and searching the man page is impossible, looked over it 10x now
<myxo2> file?
<daftykins> specify file yes
<myxo2> wait so would tar xv even do anything?
<myxo2> because you aren't giving it a file
<daftykins> man pages for more :P
<myxo2> why do we need to specify f
<daftykins> why don't you try it yourself and report back (:
<myxo2> it literally says, "missing f option?"
<myxo2> if f is so important, why isn't it implicit, that's my confusion
<daftykins> *shrug* not something i'm going to lose sleep over
<ducasse> myxo2: no f means stdin/stdout, iirc
<daftykins> not according to the man page chief
<ducasse> \o daftykins
<daftykins> heya :>
<myxo2> oh haha i just realized i was asking my Q's in the wrong irc
<myxo2> your answers make more sense now
<myxo2> i thought i was in a diff distro talk lol
<daftykins> myxo2: i'd say you need more help than from IRC if you can't find '-f' in an alphabetical man page
<myxo2> i found -f, but tar wasn't using - commands, it had no - at all
<myxo2> -f and f aren't always equivalent depending on the command and i wasn't sure
<daftykins> it's pretty common not to include a hyphen
<myxo2> no matter it's resolved
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> so what was the real channel?
<myxo2> i plead the fif
<myxo2> i recently learned about distro wars
<myxo2> i don't play that game haha
<myxo2> i made the mistake of suggesting the wrong distro on reddit the other day and got flamed, then my post crossposted to linuxcirclejerk and other linux meme subs
<daftykins> well you're on the internet, not in the US - so you don't get to use that
<myxo2> in the end it was a good thing, because those subs are hilarious
<myxo2> that's true, any my vpn is canadian, should i end my queries with 'eh'?
<myxo2> s/any/and
<daftykins> people where i'm from do that too
<myxo2> i'm actually building an LFS system at the moment
<daftykins> might even have been locals that travelled and became Canadian!
<daftykins> uh huh
<myxo2> so i'm distro-less, sp00ky, maybe fedora i think? since that's a recommended base? not to that step yet
<daftykins> doesn't sound very 'from scratch' to me if you use a base ;D
<myxo2> well i guess i could go mine my own silicon and copper, but i don't like using gentoo
<daftykins> i'm going to do the IRC equivalent of smile, nod and walk slowly backwards out of the door now
<myxo2> ;)
<daftykins> spinning gestures with my finger around my ear may also accompany the above
<vortex__> hi
<vortex__> hi Cuber
<vortex__> Cyber
<CyberCyborg> hello
<vortex__> still peple dont talk
<CyberCyborg> im going to join off-topic
<vortex__> okay
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-12-03
<ducasse> hi all \o
<Ben64> ObrienDave: was here last night being very dense as well
<ObrienDave> yes, sorry, i just get tired of the airheads :)
<Ben64> we all do
<OerHeks> weekend support, mehhh
<ObrienDave> full moon support? ;P
<Ben64> trying to catch up on my tv shows and keep having to repeat silly information
<ObrienDave> i figure after 20 or 30 times, they should catch on. that's what i get for thinking ;)
<Ben64> last night we got gems like "package manager is for noobs. i use terminal and sudo" and "why does this not work: sudo cd /usr/java/jre"
<ducasse> it seems today is going to get even more 'interesting' than weekends usually are.
<ducasse> ...and lenswipee is the "package manager is for noobs" guy, surprisingly enough :)
<OerHeks> â« lonely people
<Ben64> well he sounds a lot like a noob
<Ben64> beating every issue to death
<OerHeks> he has been around for years..
<Ben64> was on the whole sudo cd thing for hours
<ducasse> he's quickly being added to ignore lists, i suspect
<Ben64> i don't do ignore lists
<Ben64> i add people to a pebkac list in my head
<ObrienDave> :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> \o lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good, having coffee :)
<ObrienDave> #u needs more coffee. sheesh ;P
<Ben64> your ignore list is doing well tonight
<ObrienDave> it's a new record! lol
<ObrienDave> sorry guys, enough of the lunatics *waves and poofs*
<ducasse> i have no idea what this guy is on about, why can't he just answer questions? :-/
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-12-04
<ducasse> morning all
<ObrienDave> *yawn* yes it is ;P
<ducasse> am i the only one receiving a *ton* of spam?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I giess .. no spam received on my end :)
<Bashing-om> guess*
<ducasse> argh. had over 100 queries with bible-spam waiting for me when i logged on, and they're still coming in
<Ben64> set +R on yourself
<ducasse> aha, thanks.
<Ben64> yeah, someones mad
<ducasse> how are you today, Bashing-om - been busy?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: well .. busy on that one continuing poster with the kernels issues . Finally all squared away !
<ducasse> well done! :) i've got a hundred things to do today...
<Bashing-om> Job well done - and well deserved rest now - yall take care and we do this again - later
<ObrienDave> good job, only you could have pulled that one off ^5
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
<ducasse> how's life in canada?
<ducasse> i'm messing with xbian, a quite fun toy
<BluesKaj> doing ok here...had a fun jam yesterday
<ducasse> not done much at all this weekend, going xmas shopping in a bit. i'm sure noone else has thought of that today...
<BluesKaj> does xbian have a default browser? , I see lot of headless apps
<BluesKaj> pretty cool OS tho,. seems quite edgy
<ducasse> no idea about browser, it only runs kodi by default
<ducasse> i've set up mpd on it in addition, and might move weechat there.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> everyone
<BluesKaj> ducasse, think I might give Xbian a try, looks very interesting
<ducasse> BluesKaj: it's nice to have a regular system with apt etc as a base, and so far it seems to work well.
<BluesKaj> gonna install it on the rpi3..I'm kind of bored withn the setup I have on it now anyway
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<EriC^^> j #linux
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-27
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<Sveta> hi lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Sveta
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse :p
<ducasse> hiya lotuspsychje
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: work day ahead?
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lotuspsychje> whole week :p
<lotuspsychje> 4 weeks till xmass
<ducasse> ugh, yes...
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> \o  lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , how are you?
<ducasse> a bit stressed today, but i'm sure it will work out. and you?
<lordievader> Doing good
<lordievader> Bit early at work today.
<lordievader> But oh, well.
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> whats up ducasse ?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> coffee before work
<lotuspsychje> cold n rainy in belgium brrr
<lordievader> Yeah, same here.
<lordievader> ð
<ducasse> doesn't really look that cold here, just really, really dark
<jink> WHAZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
<jink> Is het al weekend? :)
<lotuspsychje> uh oh
<jink> ^__^
 * lotuspsychje runs away fast
<lordievader> ducasse: We got dark too, want some? Takes way too long before the sun is up.
<ducasse> no thanks, we've got plenty :)
<ducasse> oooh, heavy snow tomorrow - i'm sure that will be popular
<lotuspsychje> jingle bells...
<lotuspsychje> jink smells
<lotuspsychje> batman got away..
<lotuspsychje> batmobile lost his wheel
<lotuspsychje> and oerheks got away
<lotuspsychje> or something :p
<ducasse> :)
<jink> lotuspsychje: Awwwwwwwwwwww, ben je vast met Sinterklaas begonnen?
<lotuspsychje> erm..i dont believe in santa claus anymore
<jink> :P
<jink> Neither do my kids, but you know. :)
<jink> Is that even a thing in Belgium?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<jink> (Y)
<jink> brb, ran out of fuel^Wcoffee
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje grabs some gasoline
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i used to admin the computer systems at a newspaper. one day two of the journalists walked into the break room while i was making tea, sat down, and one of them sighed deeply. "what's wrong?" said the first one. the other replied "nothing some good cocaine wouldn't cure"
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> heh, reminds me of hunter s. thompson
 * lotuspsychje loves narcotics movies
<EriC^^> spun, train spotting, requiem for a dream
<lotuspsychje> blow
<lotuspsychje> rush
<EriC^^> fear & loathing, blow
<EriC^^> rush hmm never seen that
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: rather old, but nice movie
<EriC^^> formula 1 car?
<lotuspsychje> rush from (drugs)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> training day also love
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> have you seen spun?
<EriC^^> not that it's so good, but it's horendous graphically
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> brb
<ducasse> EriC^^: hunter thompson was a personal hero of mine, have you read his collections of letters etc? some fantastic stuff there :)
<ducasse> you also might like an old movie, "where the buffalo roams", where hunter is being played by bill murray
<ducasse> has anyone here gotten ncmpcpp to work on artful?
<lordievader> ncmpcpp doesnt work?
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 today ttyl
<ducasse> lordievader: it's odd. the same version is in both zesty and artful, but on artful i get 'connection refused' when attempting to connect to the mpd server, despite using the same exact config file
<lordievader> Mpd is running?
<lordievader> And mpc can connect to it?
<ducasse> sure, it works fine if i connect from the zesty box, and gmpc works fine from the artful box
<lordievader> Hmm
<lordievader> Do you see connections on the mpd host?
<lordievader> From ncmpcpp I mean.
<ducasse> i haven't gotten that far, i was thinking of sniffing the traffic with wireshark or tcpdump next
<ducasse> just wondered if anyone else here was using it
<ducasse> ok, the connection from gmpc shows up in mpd.log, but nothing when i try ncmpcpp
<lordievader> Well, I use it. But I'm not on Ubuntu.
<ducasse> i found a ppa with a later version, i'll try that. should probably still report a bug, i guess, this is a totally virgin install...
<ducasse> either that, or switch this machine to arch as well :)
 * lordievader is running 0.7.7
<ducasse> !info ncmpcpp artful
<ubot5> ncmpcpp (source: ncmpcpp): ncurses-based client for the Music Player Daemon (MPD). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.4-1build3 (artful), package size 726 kB, installed size 2829 kB
<lordievader> 0.7.7 is the (oldest) stable version in the portage tree
<ducasse> weird it didn't get an update for artful, 0.8.1 is the version in the ppa
<lordievader> Anything interesting with the 0.8 upgrade?
<ducasse> features, you mean?
<lordievader> For example/
<ducasse> haven't installed yet, looking for other problem reports and comparing dependencies atm
<ducasse> https://rybczak.net/ncmpcpp/
<ducasse> release notes there :)
<lordievader> Quite the list of changes for 0.8
<ducasse> ok, upgraded to 0.8.1, and still the same problem. now i'm confused.
<lordievader> Firewall?
<EriC^^> back
<ducasse> lordievader: no firewall. and as i said, another mpd client works just fine on the same host...
<lordievader> Yeah, that is the strange thing.
<lordievader> Ncmpcpp is using the config you specify?
<ducasse> i've literally copied the config file from the (working) zesty box. also tried commenting out everything non-essential for establishing a connection. i think this is a problem in libboost, as upgrading the ncmpcpp package itself didn't help. the versions of the dependencies are the only thing that differs.
<lordievader> Hmm, yes. Guess your right.
<Ben64> wow, biggest xy problem i've seen for some time
<ducasse> heading out, bbl
<EriC^^> morning all
<EriC^^> ducasse: do you help out in other ubuntu related freenode channels?
<EriC^^> how can i maybe become an op in the lebanese ubuntu channel i wonder? there are 2 people there, and the topic says latest release 12.04 :D
<EriC^^> !Ping
<ubot5> pong!
<EriC^^> !ping
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader,IMO  think that burt guy has some kind of illogical obsession
<lordievader> Yeah, I see no real purpose in hiding menu-categories. But hey, who am I.
<nicomachus> #ubuntu seems slow today
<nicomachus> Had to check to see if my connection died.
<nicomachus> i'm going to lunch. mustmodify should be all set once he clears out /boot
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit nicomachus
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the headsup, we takeover from here :p
<oerheks> heya lotus
<lotuspsychje> heyyy oerheks
<lotuspsychje> http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-linux-torvalds-gives-security-developers-guidance/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
<lotuspsychje> !apt-clean
<lotuspsychje> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RemoveOldKernels
<lotuspsychje> this would be useful as trigger right?
<lotuspsychje> dax: think this would be usefull^
<lotuspsychje> alot of users with full kernel lists, never clean it
<dax> surprised that still isn't automated
<lotuspsychje> we someone said to me once, its because of system doesnt know what kernel you gonna use
<dax> meh. keep current, highest version, and highest version minus one
<dax> anyway
<lotuspsychje> yeah sounds logic to me also
<lotuspsychje> why keep kernels that are security risks anyway
<dax> !kernelcleanup
<ubot5> For information about removing old kernels to free up space on /boot, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RemoveOldKernels
<dax> (just added)
<lotuspsychje> tnx mate, thats gonna rocknroll
<lotuspsychje> your the man dax :p
<nicomachus> dax: it's supposed to be automated but sometimes they get marked as manually installed and don't get removed.
<nicomachus> or people don't run autoremove like they're supposed to.
<dax> ah
<oerheks> this should be no issue on a fresh 17.10, one partition for all folders incl swapfile
<oerheks> i'd love to see a system with max 25 kernels :-D
<oerheks> or something like that, grub-limit
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> hey folks :)
<lotuspsychje> heyy dafty
<daftykins> seems the source packages made folks run out of inodes sooner than hitting a limit in the past
<BluesKaj> Hi daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<immu> hi oerheks lotuspsychje daftykins blur
<immu> BluesKaj,
<lotuspsychje> hi
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> whats up
<daftykins> mmm builders are getting close to finishing my house here, feels good :D
<daftykins> soon i will be able to start cleaning and it'll actually STAY clean!
<immu> nice, daftykins send us few pics
<daftykins> oh there'll be video come the end
<immu> cool let me know when its ready
<daftykins> the end of the week might work, as they think they'll be leaving Wednesday
<immu> anytime
<immu> if you had to choose between a iphone X and Note8, which one would your choose?
<daftykins> most likely neither, Apple are pretty evil and Samsung make nice hardware but ruin it by preloading a tonne of junk
<daftykins> immu: here are a few from yesterday - https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/uvrLu94rMy6wc03
<immu> nice
<daftykins> the last is a new window box which got installed, today there is plasterboard around the sides ready for a plaster coat tomorrow
<immu> cool
<immu> when its ready give us a sweet video tour yeah
<immu> i am off to sleep
<immu> see you all tomm amigos
<immu> :)
<daftykins> hehe, that fella
<oerheks> Did Mark filed a bugreport yet? https://www.rt.com/news/411039-living-bacteria-iss-surface/
<EriC^^> evening gentlemen
<daftykins> heya \o
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<daftykins> >:D
<EriC^^> hey :D
<daftykins> what's new?
<EriC^^> not much, you?
<daftykins> very close to having the house work complete :)
<EriC^^> awesome
<oerheks> nope, he ain't selling it, EriC^^
<daftykins> ^_^
<EriC^^> heh :D
<EriC^^> what if the bacteria is dangerous
<EriC^^> like in the movie "life" !
<EriC^^> they should study them in outer space not bring them back to earth, smh these scientists need to watch more hollywood movies to know a thing or two! wth! :D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> fair point
<oerheks> i guess we all are infected now, carry on
 * EriC^^ prepares for zombie apocalypse by ordering as many pizza's as possible
<daftykins> i've got lots of deliveries expected this week, tomorrow could be exciting :)
<EriC^^> goodies?
<EriC^^> is thanksgiving celebrated in britain?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> yep, lots! the first thing i ordered is some new coaxial cable to re-do my TV services (we have roof antenna and satellite dish services here that can be tuned into)
<daftykins> should be fun
<EriC^^> cool!
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> i like nerding out with cabling tasks :)
<EriC^^> i just spilled a cup that was full of coffee from the morning, i was too lazy to put a bag in the trash bin, so i poured earlier the ashtray full of cigs in the cup, now it's all on the floor
<daftykins> D: nooooo
<EriC^^> it smells appauling
<oerheks> new channel rule: pic, or it didn't happen
<oerheks> :-P
<daftykins> ^
<oerheks> happens to me too, often. my dealer has the ks400 and k120 in stock for me
<oerheks> 13.99 https://www.bcc.nl/accessoires/accessoires-computer/toetsenbord/logitech-toetsenbord-k120/225879
<oerheks> really really cheap
<daftykins> ah ha
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-28
<oerheks> lolz, just experienced a youtube driveby malware , harmless, just closing the browser is enough,..
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26061448/
<oerheks> https://imgur.com/654531e6-0520-4c74-b2b2-b052fd9c7c15
<oerheks> last time i have seen this is 2010 https://www.dropbox.com/s/eakrho2sfpgdvbw/virusaanval.png?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> morning :p
 * ducasse yawns
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<ducasse> brb, got to feed luna
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ducasse> done :)
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit luna :p
<ducasse> snowing heavily outside :-/
<lotuspsychje> here rain
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0+build4-0ubuntu0.17.10.6 (artful), package size 45050 kB, installed size 171518 kB
<lotuspsychje> firefox update this morning
<lotuspsychje> i wonder what they fixxed
<ducasse> sorry for bad lighting - https://photos.app.goo.gl/IOIY6BYDcLEnD2jP2
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> wow heavy indeed
<ducasse> most of that came in the last few hours
<ducasse> well, all of it, really - i sweeped the veranda yesterday
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> snowshuffle
<ducasse> the rent includes people shuffling the snow in the front, outside the door, but not the back. i usually just leave it :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> new trigger guys
<lotuspsychje> !kernelcleanup
<ubot5> For information about removing old kernels to free up space on /boot, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RemoveOldKernels
<lotuspsychje> tnx to dax
<ducasse> yes, i saw he added it yesterday
<lotuspsychje> :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<ducasse> yarrr, lordievader - how are ye, matey?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Is it pirate day?
<lotuspsychje> black thuesday lol
<ducasse> nah, i'm just in a weird mood. i'll try to behave from now on :)
<ducasse> lordievader: remember my ncmpcpp problem? it now got even weirder :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys have a nice1
<lordievader> ducasse: how come?
<EriC^^> wow, ads do freakin' work!
<EriC^^> ducasse: today suddenly users went from around 10 to 67!
<lordievader> Ads? For what?
<EriC^^> https://youtubextras.com
<lordievader> Do you advertise on youtube?
<EriC^^> no, i signed up with google adwords
<EriC^^> probably advertising on youtube would be better, i was too lazy to make a video though
<EriC^^> i'll probably make a video, it would be pretty cool especially if i could target videos that had tutorials in them or something
<EriC^^> i usually use the site myself for stuff like cooking tutorials, when there's something not clear, or finding what song was in the outro or stuff like that for a video
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> lordievader: in my config, i have mpd_host = "rpi" and mpd_port = "6600", on artful i still get "connection refused" with nothing in the mpd.log on the server. _however_, if i start ncmpcpp with 'ncmpcpp -h rpi -p 6600' it magically works!
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse
<lordievader> ducasse: is there a duplicate definition of the option?
<lordievader> ducasse: Oh, wait a minute. Is the hostname and port really with a "?
<lordievader> In my config both of them are without "
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lordievader> o/
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> lordievader: they were in the examples i used when setting it up, and work on zesty. tried removing them now, but no luck.
<lordievader> Hmm
<lordievader> `host rpi` resolves I suppose?
<ducasse> yep
<ducasse> as i said, it works on the command line
<lordievader> Really strange issue.
<ducasse> you see why i'm stumped? :)
<lordievader> Yes, quite.
<ducasse> i've also tried with the ip address, of course, also without luck
<ducasse> lordievader: the view from outside my living room, and the reason i'm staying put inside today - https://photos.app.goo.gl/kSIGK1Apq3B7rUWu1
<lordievader> That is quite a bit of snow.
<ducasse> ou can't really see it in that pic, but it's still falling pretty heavily
<ducasse> *you
<lordievader> XD
<lordievader> Lovely
<BluesKaj> just wet, grey and bron here
<BluesKaj> brown even
<BluesKaj> not gonna bother with a pic
<ducasse> i'm sure TJ- would love to bring his huskies :)
<ducasse> personally i've seen quite enough of it :-/
<Nicolas> Someone I saw had a problem with using VLC player w/ubuntu.  Video would freeze - then other goofyness.  Is this unusual?
<oerheks> anyone using osx sierra?
<oerheks> get off the internet :-D
<oerheks> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/28/root_access_bypass_macos_high_sierra/
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> The number of bugs I've seen reported recently from MacOS, makes me think the programmers have been outsourced to India or some other low-cost destination
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> speed battle test 1600 with FF on win10 i3 cpu
<lotuspsychje> welcome eruditass
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey hey
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<ducasse> coffee and biscuits on the table :)
<EriC^^> morning ducasse
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you all?
<EriC^^> good here, you?
<lordievader> Doing allright here too
<lotuspsychje> welcome lfei
<lordievader> o/
<Kristjan> My name is Kristjan Robam.  Bank account nr: EE671010010225901016 (SEB Estonia).  People, please donate me with 200$ donates. I am very ill and need to collect money.
<Ben64> but i only have 199$ for donates
<Ben64> guess i can't do it
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> BluesKaj: hi, wb. all well today?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse , yes, fine thanks, and you?
<pauljw> Hi everyone
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-30
<oerheks> dutch gov releases sourcecode failed ict project, https://www.security.nl/posting/541135/Overheid+maakt+broncode+Basisregistratie+Personen+open+source
<oerheks> java :-D
<ducasse> good morning, people of ubuntu-land!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :) ... I think of myself as one of ^ them .
<ducasse> yup, me too :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> rained hard all night again
<lordievader> Supposedly it is cold here, luckily I don't need to go just yet.
<ducasse> hi lordievader, lotuspsychje
<ducasse> all good?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse Doing good here :)
<ducasse> :)
<Bashing-om> Location: Heber Springs, AR ~ Cond: 45Â°F (7Â°C), Clear ~ Atmo: 100%, 5.0 mi (8.0 km), 30.11 in (1020 mb) ~ Wind: 0 mph (0 km/h), N, N/AÂ°F (N/AÂ°C) ~ Time: 12:55
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you and your over freezing temperatures! hmph! ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: No rain .. we are way behind ( hope it is not a sign of a drought ) // no immediate concern for the water lines :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i showed you the picture yesterday of what it looks like here, didn't i?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah .. Not too much though . Here I do not expect snow until/after year's end .
<ducasse> if this keeps up we'll be snowed in by then :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Here is said, that if the snow remains on the ground for a week, it will snow again within that week . to get a foot of snow is a rare event .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: view from my living room 2 mins ago - https://photos.app.goo.gl/KuI6iKNGw7BouKte2
<Bashing-om> ducasse: 6 American inches .. still more to come ?
<ducasse> oooh, yes. plenty both today and tomorrow, aiui.
<ducasse> almost all of what you see came in one day
<Bashing-om> Schools closed ( transportation issues ) ? The kids out rolling thier snow-men ?
<ducasse> for schools to close here, there would need to be a *lot* more. dunno what those big shoveling trucks are called in english, but enough for them not to handle it, probably.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Them " big shoveling trucks " are snow plows here . Rural area here amd does not take mucj to close the school down due to the many "back roads" that are considered unsafe to the busses .
<ducasse> snow plows - that's it - thanks :) sometimes my brain blocks :)
<ducasse> the most common thing to close schools here is cold, not snow, and that doesn't happen until it's -30Â°C or so.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ^^
<Bashing-om> ducasse: -30 C is unimaginable here ! below freezing and a few days will be warmed back up :) Cold is not a dire factor.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i guess students are just expected to learn how to dress appropriately :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Now-a-days i like ebcumbent weather  - my consounce does not bother me when I can not get out and do what I should have done .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: My fingers are tongue tied ! .. Guess it is time I quit :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: thankfully, shovelling snow is included in the rent here. they clear the way all the way to my front door :)
<ducasse> sleep well!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: daily updates ... and in them is va-driver-all. Maybe fix some issues ?
<ducasse> which release?
<Bashing-om> 16.04 // sorry bout that :(
<ducasse> only my (desktop-less) server is on that, plus my containers - i'm on 17.04/17.10/arch
<Bashing-om> well, enjoy ,, I am out of here \o
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<BluesKaj> oh lord, the opinion troll is at it again
<TJ-> huh?
<BluesKaj> TJ-, that dag-mar guy over at ##linux
<BluesKaj> yesterday he was particularly negative...something's changed. today he's actually trying helpsomeone
<BluesKaj> trying to even
<TJ-> BluesKaj: oh yeah, vey passive-aggressive at times
<BluesKaj> i don't gaive damn about his opinions and he does go on and on at times filling the chat text with rancor
<TJ-> Yes; It helps to put him on /ignore :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, was just thinking that
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-12-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> almost weekend!
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> sleep fine ducasse ?
<ducasse> woke up at 5 :(
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> last night was icesnow here
<lotuspsychje> 400km traffic block
<ducasse> yesterday traffic was pretty horrible here, i heard - luckily i can't drive :)
<lotuspsychje> me neither
<lotuspsychje> i dont like cars
<lotuspsychje> well, if you dont count tuxracer :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: recommendations for music player that handles *huge* libraries well?
<lotuspsychje> erm
<lotuspsychje> i hear good things about clementine ducasse
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: any dev response on your bug yet?
<ducasse> let's see...
<ducasse> nope
<ducasse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ncmpcpp/+bug/1734839
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734839 in ncmpcpp (Ubuntu) "ncmpcpp in artful fails to connect" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: tested this in xenial?
<ducasse> not in xenial, that uses a different version iirc, but it works well in zesty (which has the same version)
<lotuspsychje> hmmz
<ducasse> read through the bug, it's really bizarre
<ducasse> found a decent player, though - gmusicbrowser. now to find a good terminal player ;)
<lotuspsychje> nice
<EriC^^> morning fellas
<ducasse> \o EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey ducasse o/
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> i have a zit in my ear
<EriC^^> it's the worst
<lotuspsychje> zit?
<EriC^^> you know those skin pops
<lotuspsychje> no?
<EriC^^> the ones usually teenagers get on their face
<lotuspsychje> got a pic?
<EriC^^> pimple?
<lotuspsychje> doesnt ring a bell, whats it for?
<EriC^^> wth!
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<lotuspsychje> got it
<EriC^^> :P
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: put toothpaste on it
<EriC^^> in my ear? wthx2!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> toothpaste makes it vanish, eats bacteries
<EriC^^> somebody comes in, um, yeah just brushing my ear drum, carry on
<EriC^^> pa rum parum pum
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> just wanna help :p
<EriC^^> i might try that, pending confirmation from a truth authority, such as a youtube video by a teen
<lotuspsychje> you ate too much pizza?
<EriC^^> j/k
<EriC^^> lol maybe
<EriC^^> it hurts like a bitch though
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats not plesant
<EriC^^> i watched justice league yesterday
<EriC^^> not bad i guess
<EriC^^> not a lot of action, still good though
<lotuspsychje> didnt see it
<EriC^^> https://zooqle.com/justice-league-2017-new-hd-ts-x264-hq-cpg-wj4gc.html
<lotuspsychje> looks good
<lotuspsychje> hey immu
<immu> lotuspsychje, hey whats up
<lotuspsychje> coffee & irc
<immu> Chai & IRC
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: screenshot - sorry, you need to scroll a bit b/c width :) https://imgur.com/a/Yr6nN
<lotuspsychje> neat ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , ducasse
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> great here, almost weekend
<lotuspsychje> and 3 weeks till xmass
<lordievader> Yayy, christmas -.-
<lotuspsychje> i got 3 weeks holiday, only that matters to me
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<ducasse> i've just been picking up a dead mouse, now i know why luna was making so much noise last night :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> so handy a housecat :p
<ducasse> great deal for me - i feed you, you keep the house free of vermin :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> defending area
<EriC^^> i wish there was a rent-a-cat place
<EriC^^> you take a cat for a weekend and then bring it back
<EriC^^> i could buy a cat for a month then return it free of charge..
<ducasse> EriC^^: organizations that take in cats for placing them in new homes are often looking for "foster parents" until a home can be found, at least that's how  it works here
<EriC^^> cool
<ducasse> you could try asking them
<lotuspsychje> bbl work guys, have a nice1
<immu> hi eric
<immu> are you a cat lover
<immu> i , my daughter and my father are a total cat lovers, but due to my mom and wife not liking them we can't keep them
<EriC^^> hi immu
<EriC^^> i've never had a cat before or dog
<immu> but you desired a cat?
<EriC^^> i've been watching a lot of cat videos lately while working on a project
<EriC^^> it's kind of growing on me, yeah
<EriC^^> i'm not sure if i'd like it all the time though, i got some fish a few months ago and ended up flushing them down the toilet
<EriC^^> too much of a hastle changing the water twice a day and they get sick etc
<EriC^^> do you have any pets or had any?
<immu> i had a budgie pair, but they mad my wife sick, so i sold them off
<immu> brb rebooting into windows for maintenance
<immu> back *.*
<immu> which is the browser test link?
<BluesKaj> Hiya folks
<immu> hi BluesKaj :)
<immu> whats up
<BluesKaj> hi immu , morning coffee here, how about you?
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<immu> hey BluesKaj again,m i had lunch and strolling on facebook checking all saved posts :)
<BluesKaj> Hey er
<BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
<BluesKaj> :-)
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<EriC^^> :)
<immu> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> whats up
<immu> hey EriC^^ found your kitty ;)
<EriC^^> i'm seriously considering it right now, prospective kitten http://pets-vets.net/petsandvets/index.php/petfile/view/petid/320
<ducasse> get one like mine - it knows python, haskell and lisp! https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q4cfyVV5s1jhlGNS2
<ducasse> ;)
<EriC^^> puppy huskies look so angry! https://olxliban.com/en/ad/akc-siberian-husky-puppies-ID70RRO.html
<EriC^^> in all the pics i've seen they look similar, they have a resting hulk-smash face xD
<immu> but they are also good EriC^^ best get a cat and see they are good
<BluesKaj> huskies make great pets in notherm climes, not so much in hot ones ...they are quiet dogs and only bark if there's real danger. It's a protection mechanism bred into them by years of living around wolves and other predators that could zero in on their location by sound
<BluesKaj> protective behaviour is probly a more appropriate term
<nicomachus> 10:22 < Younder> Sorry I am listening ro Rachmaninoff 2 piano symphony which is
<nicomachus>                  rather intens so I may be A BIT DISTRACTED.
<nicomachus> oh save it. why is that even relevant?
<BluesKaj> it isn't here, nicomachus, but Howdy anayway :-0
<BluesKaj> :-)
<daftykins> you could say it was a classic response (:
<daftykins> classical? ;)
<Bashing-om> Errands to run back in a couple of hours or so .
<Bashing-om> Back in the chair once more :)
<immu> hey Bashing-om lordievader ducasse :)
<Bashing-om> immu: we be here - good day in the neighborhood.
<immu> coool
<immu> what else amigos
<immu> goodnite
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-12-02
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !landscape
<ubot5> Landscape makes the management and monitoring of Ubuntu systems simple and effective by combining world-class support with easy to use online management tools. https://landscape.canonical.com/
<lotuspsychje> dax: a user reports tor from ubuntu repos should not be used, what you think of that?
<lotuspsychje> dax: should we keep using !tor ?
<dax> uh, !tor covers this...
<dax> !tor
<ubot5> Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. It is in Ubuntu's repositories, but the Tor Project recommends using their Tor packages due to past issues with Ubuntu's. For setup info, see option (2) of https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en
<dax> whether they want to use our packages or listen to Tor is up to them, if they listen to Tor then obv. any issues with those packages would need to go to Tor rather than us (their channel is #tor on OFTC)
<lotuspsychje> okay
<lotuspsychje> dax: weird ubuntu keeps feeding package tor, if its unsafe?
<dax> I suspect that Tor's opinion on the matter is not the only one.
<lotuspsychje> maybe ill talk the hardened guys about it
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> dax: seems like that guy already in hardened
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> dax: bottom line of hardened guys: <sarnold> lotuspsychje: it's hard to know which packages will get community love and care
<immu> hi
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> morning/afternoon, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse :-)
<ducasse> how are things?
<BluesKaj> I'm fine, but the weather sucks, cold and damp, how about you?
<immu> hi BluesKaj ducasse , weather is cool and dry
<ducasse> BluesKaj: on some pretty heavy antibiotics (among other things) that my system doesn't agree with, so i'm not entirely myself. apologies for typos and weird language in advance :)
<BluesKaj> heavy antibiotics ..hmm hope they work for you, they did for me a few ago
<BluesKaj> yrs ago
<ducasse> only been on antibiotics once before, and they worked fine. the only problem is that my body *really* dislike them, so i get a bunch of side effects. less than a week left now, so no big deal.
<immu> ducasse, why are you taking heavy antibiotics? all ok mate . i know the effects of heavy medicines as my wife had to undergo them
<ducasse> immu: without going into details, it's to fight off an infection. the doctors don't really know what's wrong yet, but this is the first step.
<immu> no blood test? i wish for your early recovery to good health
<immu> do drink lots of water and rest well
<ducasse> immu: i did several blood tests because they suspected cancer, but thankfully those came back negative
<ducasse> immu: but thanks for that, i haven't been much online since this started - not much energy for support
<immu> strange? with all blood tests normal what have the doctors have found yet? another round of tests?
<ducasse> immu: they did a whole bunch, i'm home until they find something or need to do more tests
<immu> ducasse, i will pray for your recovery and good health
<BluesKaj> yes ducasse we wish you good health, and get well soon
<ducasse> thanks, guys - i'm sure it will soon be sorted out. but know you know why if i'm suddenly not here much the coming days, i can only sit at desk for so long before it gets painful.
<ducasse> but appreciate the well-wishing!
<immu> whats really happening to you? weakness, fever?
<immu> what else every one
<ef__> test
<immu> test
<ducasse> immu: thanks for caring, but i don't really want to go into details here
<immu> no problem ducasse , your privacy and wishes will be respected
<EriC^^> in the old days, new users used to join ubuntu for help, now the helpless can't join cause it's +r , and we end up with "reg" idiots who ask 10+ troll prize worthy questions a day flooding the channel with bull shit, while the people who actually needed help can't even figure out how to join
<EriC^^> it's sad, and disgusting that the ubuntu company ditched its users and gave us a shit desktop now, and the ops won't move a finger to make the channel newbie hospitable again
<BluesKaj> perhaps an ##noobuntu chat could be set up
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, but I do agree the ubuntu chat has become more like the #linux chat where users are coming in questions about  code and long string commands etc
<BluesKaj> with questions
<EriC^^> who's this Neo1 ? every time i look at the channel i see him asking something and fighting with reg helpers, it should be a drinking game
<ducasse> EriC^^: he's a totally newbie web/javascript developer who want to learn linux, but refuses to read docs. he insists on watching youtube videos instead.
<immu> ducasse, lol
<immu> hey EriC^^
<immu> goodnite all
<daftykins> \o
<Bashing-om> We do Saturday :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-12-03
<ducasse> good morning, all
<EriC^^> morning ducasse o/
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, how's life?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> fine here mate
<lotuspsychje> had food all day yesterday
<lotuspsychje> you had nice weekend ducasse ?
<ducasse> yum, what did you eat?
<ducasse> weekend was ok, just a bit stressed as you know
<lotuspsychje> we had tortelini bolognese with cheese in the oven
<lotuspsychje> then pancakes with coffee as desert
<ducasse> when i was in belgium i had crepes with honey sauce and ice cream - amazing :D
<lotuspsychje> mmm, didnt know you went to belgium?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: wich city was that
<ducasse> i went there for a conference - raid/esorics
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> 'recent advances in intrusion detection/something something in computer security' :)
<lotuspsychje> neat
<ducasse> it was in louvain-la-neuve
<lotuspsychje> leuven, nice
<ducasse> leuven is a 'sister city', isn't it? we went there as well, had dinner in an old monastery.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> louvain-la-neuve was a very pretty place, i thought. i loved the narrow old streets with shops and little 'bridges' over them :)
<ducasse> and then the very modern part, where the university was
<lotuspsychje> yeah i know that place
<ducasse> i worked for sun back then. we went out drinking with a guy from sun germany and a guy from ibm. there were two guys from nsa giving a talk, we asked them to come with us, but they said they weren't allowed :(
<lotuspsychje> huh
<ducasse> we had great fun, though - gave so much tips the bartender drove us back to the hotel :)
<lotuspsychje> i didnt know you were interested in security part ducasse
<ducasse> that's what i did the last few years i worked
<lotuspsychje> cool mate
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.17.18 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<ducasse> i wonder...
<ducasse> !bsd
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> good morning to you, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse, how are you today?
<ducasse> i'm ok, just sleepy. feel like it's late in the day even though it's only noon - woke up at four :)
<BluesKaj> heh, I know the feeling.was awake at 4 here as well
<ducasse> it's just these damn meds that disagree with me, but only 2 1/2 day left now, so i'll survive :)
<BluesKaj> good to hear ducasse
<BluesKaj> I nap too much during the day, that's my problem
<ducasse> upgraded my desktop to artful today, not a single hiccup
<BluesKaj> cool :-)
<BluesKaj> Artful's been very stable for me so far.. so has Bionic
<ducasse> really fast process too, got ~25MB/s from the mirror
<BluesKaj> nice
<ducasse> i'll upgrade this laptop to bionic really soon, just waiting for a couple of ppas i need to add packages for it
<BluesKaj> I'm planning to switch to high speed fiber optics when it arrived here in the spring ...my ISP claims we'll have it available in late april/early may
<BluesKaj> arrives
<BluesKaj> the local cable c offers it , but their pricing suffers from "creep charges"
<ducasse> they're digging trenches for new fibre where i live now, and at the same time the cable company is promising to upgrade their fiber to the node to ftth
<BluesKaj> most fiber optics here ends at a distibution box and is copper wire from there
<BluesKaj> in my neighbouthood
<ducasse> today i get copper from the distribution box, but when they upgrade i'll get cat6 straight from the wall
<ducasse> but hell, i've got more bandwidth than i need now
<BluesKaj> I'd be happy with 50mb
<ducasse> i pay for 250mbps, and typically get ~300
<ducasse> only 30 up, though, that's what i'd like to get more of
<BluesKaj> we have such long distances to cover here that the internet infrastructure is very expensive to construct and maintain, but the priced are still too high even after their initial costs have already been recovered
<BluesKaj> +
<ducasse> i've read the horrifying articles about the billions and billions us telcos have been subsidized to build out internet (especially to rural areas) in the us, and how they fight municipalities wanting to build their own...
<ducasse> "we can't afford it, but you shouldn't be allowed to!"
<BluesKaj> we have 3 large telcos here, then there are about 5 smaller operators who are expanding rapidly in unserviced areas the big 3 just ignore at their peril I might add. but the smaller operators are using the same billing tactics as the big guys...unknown made up charges that increas one's bill by up to 15-20 %
<BluesKaj> some of the big American ISPs were looking at Canada a few yrs ago but concluded they couldn't make much money here...already too crowded competition-wise
<ducasse> telcos/internet providers are _heavily_ regulated here, so there's cutthroat competition. their prices are pretty much the same, the difference is mostly what areas they've built out so far.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, thee are a lot of municipally run ISPs in small towns all over Canada, the big telcos constantly presure them and the gov't  to buy them out , but the voters in the small townsa are the share holders and vote against the takeovers in most cases
 * ducasse applaud canadian voters
<BluesKaj> yup
<ducasse> most of the internet providers here also provide tv somehow, and many voip. mine is also a mvno, i'm actually considering switching to them, as i'd get a dirt cheap bundle price.
<BluesKaj> in one case where the takever was successful , the telco reduced the internet speeds without lowering the prices, so the town appealed to the gov't regulators to buy the ISP back and were successful
<ducasse> :D
<BluesKaj> bundles are a marketing ploy here. it's cheap for 3-6 mos then your bill skyrockets
<ducasse> another us invention that hasn't caught on here: caps. none of the providers here have them.
<BluesKaj> we have them, but the gov't is trying to maqke them go away, especially on mobile phones...the overcap chatges are atrocious
<ducasse> the bundle thing is a bit different here, they announce the full price, then offer you say 3 months totally free if you sign on. but there's no small print, the full price is clearly listed. and still cheap in my case.
<BluesKaj> cool, wish we had those regs
<ducasse> "hurry, guys - the internet is running out of bits, make some more!"
<BluesKaj> the data service is turned off on my phone... I don't think of it as a computer due to the costs
<ducasse> if i sign on to their mobile package i get a bit lower price than now, 8x as much data (which i don't need, but might change my habits), plus i get hbo nordic for free included
<ducasse> plus i get everything on one bill
<BluesKaj> well, I used to have one bill, but it was too high, I saved over $100/mos by switching my internet and phone a different provider and dropping a a couple of tv packages that we seldom watched
<ducasse> i don't really watch tv, so i only have the basic package i can't de-select. i asked if they could take it away and give me more bandwidth instead, but they said "sorry, no" :)
<ducasse> it costs next to nothing and gives me ~60-70 channels or so, so i can live with it.
<BluesKaj> I'm seriously thinking of just using IPTV once I get enough bandwidth and dropping the sat service altogether
<ducasse> to be perfectly honest, i use the 'unofficial' form of iptv. i _do_ pay for watching the series, why can't i download them and watch when i feel like it?
<ducasse> but we should probably not go into detail on that here...
<BluesKaj> guntbert, we have that regulation here in Canada, if you subscribe to the channel then any shows on that are legal to download
<BluesKaj> ducasse, ^
<BluesKaj> sorry guntbert , somehow  typo'd your nick wih the tab key
<ducasse> cool, we should get that here. otoh, nobody here really cares what you download anyway, so it's not a big deal. they tried imposing dns-blocking on the major ips's, but discovered that *everyone* got around that the same day it came into effect. after that they sort of gave up :)
<BluesKaj> hehe
<ducasse> the pirate party is growing steadily here, and actually have built up a pretty sane and decent program. people have started taking them seriously, it's no longer being seen as the "we want free movies!"-party
<ducasse> they've gotten a lot of support for wanting to experiment with 'citizen wage' (dunno a better english term)
<BluesKaj> back in the audio cassette era, Sony was sued by a record company for marketing blank tape, our supreme court ruled that if the recording is made from the ownwrs mewdia being vinyl or prerecorded cassette at the time owns the rights to that material for his own use.
<ducasse> same here, backups are legal
<ducasse> the record companies still get a cut from blank cd's, though. who knows why.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, yeah think citizen wage is a coming thing ...the population is given a livable wage by the federal gov't rather than pay social welfare, which is handled by muncicpality and provincial gov'ts here, altho that money is covered by the feds indirectly thru social welfare payments to the provinces
<ducasse> it makes a lot of sense. i saw a program on two cities, one in finland and one in the netherlands that are trying it, and it was a roaring success. increased the living standard for everyone, made them feel better, and made more money available in the area (if you understand me,  bad at translating this)
<BluesKaj> yeah, i recall that trial program in Finland seemed quite successful
<ducasse> they've been talking about it here, only the two major right-wing parties are against it. unfortunately they control stortinget now...
<Nokaji> The computer age was promised to deliver the leisure age, where we go from say 48/48/48 to say 30/30/30
<Nokaji> where those numbers represent hours-per-week/weeks-per-year/years-per-lifespan
<Nokaji> working
<Nokaji> bbut they kept the money/profits instead and made us work twice as hard
<ducasse> production costs goes up -> prices increase -> salaries stay the same
<ducasse> i just *love* newbie web developers
<ducasse> 14:54 <ducasse> Neo1: you've typed 'ServerAllas' instead of 'ServerAlias'
<ducasse> 14:55 <Neo1> ducasse: I deliberately did it, I thought alias is wrong, well
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<pauljw> wb
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw, thanks
<pauljw> how's things today, BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> setting up the activities and VD pager options
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> i'm playing with xfce on artful, really strange after using i3 for so long :)
<BluesKaj> tried to use i3 , but i found yakuake does the job for my needs , multiple  terminals aren't really needed
<pauljw> i love xfce, been using it on everything lately.
<ducasse> xfce is nice and all, but i'm probably going back to i3 on this laptop as well. just so much nicer to do everything from the keyboard, and feels more efficient. highly subjective, though.
<pauljw> yep, that's the beauty of choice, i'm not as comfortable with keyboarding everything.
<ducasse> this is the reason i love linux, you can always find something that suits you and your way of doing things
<pauljw> agreed
<ducasse> i find i use xfce muxh like i3 - terminals everywhere, a few graphical applications fullscreen on their own desktops, and control everything with the keyboard as far as possible :)
<ducasse> if only it had proper tiling... :)
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> i don't use anything fullscreen, when i'm doing updates i have 4 terminals open but normally just two, one running glances and one running iftop
<BluesKaj> ahh, The Grand Tour is back this coming friday, looking forward to it ð
<ducasse> i've got to remember to buy ice cream or something :)
<BluesKaj> gawd is the Neo character still hanging about asking for hand holding ...
<ducasse> i've told him time and time again he's  trying to do something far beyond his skill level and to buy and read a book or at the least read docs online, but he only wants to watch youtube videos
<BluesKaj> heh, monkey see, monkey do :-)
<BluesKaj> wonder how good his english comprehension is
<ducasse> terrible. he showed a screesnshot the other day, he uses google translate to understand us.
<BluesKaj> ahh yeah, he's Ukrainian
<immu> hiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<ducasse> hi immu
<immu> ducasse, hello
<immu> good i caught someones attention :)
<immu> how are you doing
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<xangua> Good night
<lotuspsychje> hey xangua
<xangua> Hi
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> just build our xmas tree with books
<Sveta> do you have a photo?
<lotuspsychje> lets upload :p
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/4T3Jy
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> the light overlight a bit
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: wanna have a look at ducasse bug found: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ncmpcpp/+bug/1734839 tell us what you think?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734839 in ncmpcpp (Ubuntu) "ncmpcpp in artful fails to connect" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> no devs update yet..
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey hey .. hoz things ?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: run it under 'strace' and see what it's doing: "strace -f -o /tmp/ncmpcpp.log ncmpcpp"
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: ^
<TJ-> strace should show if it is actually reading the user's config file for example
<TJ-> It could be an apparmor issue too
<TJ-> check auth.log
<ducasse> interesting. i upgraded the zesty machine to artful today, and it works perfectly there. the machine it was not working on was a completely fresh artful install...
<TJ-> for which the default host is  localhost
<lotuspsychje> im fine Bashing-om ty ;)
<lotuspsychje> hi immu
<immu> hi lotus
<immu> hi lotuspsychje
<ducasse> TJ-: mpd was not running on localhost, but an rpi
<ducasse> good evening, immu
<immu> its good nite here:)
<ducasse> all well in dubai?
<immu> whats up
<immu> yeah
<immu> yurs
<immu> good nite of to sleep mates
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
