#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-14
<ScottL> interesting article on testing different ubuntu kernels: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_lucid_kernels&num=1
<ScottL> abogani2, did you get my email about the -preempt kernel?
<ScottL> nevemind, i see you emailed me back
<ScottL> abogani2, thank you for finding the bug :)
<abogani2> ScottL: don't mention it! :-)
<ScottL> well, i made sure that all test cases had been reported for the ISO (i had the complete the last one), quadrispro helped me fix a bug in bitmeter, and now you have fixed the -preempt kernel
<ScottL> man, i really hope this gets a new ISO built so we can actually install it to test
<ScottL> i've been wanting to test the jack/pulse audio integration and hopefully file a few SRU for lucid
<rlameiro> falktx: hey, look, i need to talk with you about one thing
<rlameiro> what do you do in practice, to start the jack sink/source plugins on kxstudio
<rlameiro> I was thinking on implementing something like that on ubuntustudio controls, as STRICTLY EXPERIMENTAL thing
<rlameiro> with no responsbility
<rlameiro> something, like the user activate the script and have a warning that that could crash PA on jack stop etc etc
<falktx> jack sink/source plugins?
<falktx> rlameiro: what do u mean?
<rlameiro> the plugins to exchange audio beetween jack and PA
<falktx> it's just normal pulseaudio
<falktx> u tune pulse with "pavucontrol"
<rlameiro> falktx: is it a problem if I use your script?
<rlameiro> obviosly i will credit you :D
<falktx> and in jack, pulseaudio is available as a single input+ output port
<falktx> rlameiro: i'l be proud
<rlameiro> falktx: yes i know
<falktx> rlameiro: no prob
<rlameiro> falktx: thanks very much man
<falktx> hehe, u're welcome
<rlameiro> abogani2: ping
<abogani2> rlameiro: pong
<rlameiro> abogani2: you said some days ago, you are droping RT kernel
<rlameiro> is it true?
<abogani2> rlameiro: I would want.
<rlameiro> abogani2: is the ubuntu kernel team the reason?
<abogani2> rlameiro: No it's me: my personal situation don't allow me to provide suitable time for it.
<rlameiro> abogani2: sorry to ear that ...
<rlameiro> abogani2: man i really hope everything come ok to you man, you deserve it...
<abogani2> rlameiro: In any case I'm trying to add the lowlatency kernel into archive (which should be enough for almost our users).
<rlameiro> abogani2: that is a big help already.
<scott-work> rlameiro: you asked yesterday about why needing to include rtprio and memlock in -controls
<rlameiro> yes
<scott-work> rlameiro: we should probably still include them because a user might want (or need) to adjust the settings that jack might default as
<rlameiro> scott-work: i was looking at it, and the jack configuration already does that
<rlameiro> rtprio 99 and memlock unlimited
<scott-work> rlameiro: so -controls is not really used to "set" them but to "adjust" the settings
<scott-work> yes, but maybe unlimited is not what they need or *should* use because of their hardware
<rlameiro> not at the moment, tahs the reason i have to change the whole script to identify what is configured and change the line for our choice
<scott-work> right
<scott-work> but I don't think we should be eliminating rtprio and memlock from -controls and leave only raw1394 to be set
<rlameiro> for now, i can identify the line containing the effects and divide each word in that line
<rlameiro> so i need to keep going nad puting new stuff
<scott-work> sorry, phone call at work (and I can't say no to that)
<rlameiro> scott-work: :D
<scott-work> yes, please keep focusing on this, i had found a python irc channel that helped me when i was working on the plymouth theme, you can ask questions there also
<scott-work> rlameiro: and thank you for taking the iniative to help with -controls, i really appreciate it
<rlameiro> scott-work: np i want to help :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-15
<TheMuso> grrr Debian have just made jack stuff a whole lot more difficult. :S
<rlameiro> TheMuso: in what way?
<TheMuso> rlameiro: They are moving jack2 into a new source package called jack2, and jack-audio-connectino-kit is being reverted back to jack1.
<TheMuso> connection 
<rlameiro> 2 parallel jack?
<rlameiro> so, if we sync, we would have jack1 only
<rlameiro> and need to ask a new propositionf for jack2 into main?
<rlameiro> TheMuso: that is not so good news
<TheMuso> rlameiro: No its not, and you hit it on the head.
<TheMuso> I would have been ok if they took this path initially.
<rlameiro> TheMuso: after all the work, we need to do it again??
<TheMuso> But to go one way, and then change around and do it another a month or so down the track is a pain.
<TheMuso> rlameiro: Yep.
<TheMuso> :S
<rlameiro> TheMuso: So, when does debian freeze?
<rlameiro> i tought they already frozen it...
<TheMuso> rlameiro: I don't know.
<rlameiro> TheMuso: well, i think we need to lower expectations for maverick then
<TheMuso> rlameiro: We still have time to make it all happen, its just a pain in the backside
<rlameiro> TheMuso: well, if i can help in something, please tell me
<TheMuso> rlameiro: thanks
<TheMuso> rlameiro: We need jack2 to be in universe first, that will probably be a week or so. Only once we have jack2, will I update jack-audio-connectino-kit from Debian.
<rlameiro> TheMuso: well, i will need to test it, so i can implement the configurations into ubuntustudio controls
<rlameiro> TheMuso: will it be on maverick daily builds?
<TheMuso> rlameiro: Not for a while
<rlameiro> ok
<ScottL> debian import freeze is on june 24th
<ScottL> TheMuso, just as rlameiro said, if there is anything i can do to help please let me know
<ScottL> TheMuso, did debian say why they decided to do this?
<TheMuso> ScottL: They are transitioning jack packages such that people can choose which jack implementation they use.
<TheMuso> ScottL: We can still request syncs after DIF.
<ScottL> TheMuso, is there a good reason to allow choosing which jack version? 
<ScottL> should we be doing it too? do we have developer support to do so?
<TheMuso> ScottL: We will get the packaging for it from Debian with no extra work on our part, however we should stick with shipping jack2 by default.
<TheMuso> i.e jack2 in main, tied to pulse/firewire.
<ScottL> that sounds like a very good idea...i hope it is TheMuso ;)
<ScottL> but i do have a consideration:  i presume then that jack1 will be available to install if one prefers it over jack2
<ScottL> i wonder how installation and calling the application will work
<ScottL> will the user be required to call 'jack1' and 'jack2' respectively to execute jack1 and jack2
<ScottL> or will it be a drop in replacement
<ScottL> which then gets into dependencies (hard vs soft) as i recall trying to remove ardour also removed jack, et al
<ScottL> will one be able to remove jack2 to install jack1 without having to remove all audio apps and settings
<ScottL> but i don't think many people (or at least a *very* select subset) will want jack1 since it will effectively break compatibility with pulse
<ScottL> unless performance with jack2 is horrid
<TheMuso> ScottL: it will be a drop-in replacement, so you switch what jackd- package you install, and the other one will be removed
<ScottL> TheMuso, has qjackctl been moderated yet to remove the wrapper script that executes pasuspender?
 * ScottL has tried to test maverick but installations have failed so far, here's hoping for tomorrow and a new build :)
<ScottL> in good news, quadrispro helped fix the bitmeter uninstallable binary situation and abogani fixed up the -preempt kernel uninstallable binary problem
<ScottL> hopefully this means no email from colin watson on the morrow and a officially released testing ISO from the qa tracker
<TheMuso> ScottL: Not as far as I know of.
<TheMuso> And I haven't seen anything for it in maverick-changes.
<scott-work> abogani2: the -preempt kernel was fixed, thanks!
<scott-work> no email from colin watson this morning :)
<scott-work> TheMuso: i found the web page that persia had linked to me about all files in an ISO, it wasn't the .manifest file rather it was the .files file
<scott-work> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20100614/maverick-alternate-i386.list
<scott-work> errr .list file (not .file file)
<TheMuso> ah ok
<abogani2> scott-work: :-)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-16
<ScottL> i'm part of the Debian Multimedia Team  :)    I'm pretty proud of that
<TheMuso> ScottL: I saw that.
<TheMuso> That was quite easy it seems.
<ScottL> yeah, it was, it kinda makes me nervous
<scott-work> the ubuntu studio daily build ISOs have not been building for two days :(
<scott-work> however, cjwatson mentioned that it is a known problem (affects all alternate install ISOs apparently) and should be fixed by tomorrow :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-17
<ScottL> detrate`, are you around?
<falktx> hey
<falktx> i just noticed abogani removed the realtime kernels from his ppa
<falktx> what happened?
<jussi> ScottL: ping me when you are free
<scott-work> jussi: ping
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-18
<ScottL> i'm in #ubuntu-meetings waiting for my turn for membership application meeting
<ScottL> the waiting is making me a bit axious :/
<holstein> ScottL: w00t
<ScottL> thanks holstein :)
<TheMuso> ScottL: Well done!
<ScottL> thank you TheMuso  :)
<TheMuso> Sorry I got in there too late, had to reboot my IRC box.
<ScottL> that's okay, it went very well i think
<ScottL> persia told me to document *everything* in my wiki, i took him at his word :)
<ScottL> i think that carried the day ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<holstein> ScottL: you got it?
<ScottL> holstein, i did
<holstein> ScottL: congrats :)
 * holstein knew you would
<ScottL> lol, thanks holstein 
<rlameiro> ScottL: CONGRATS!!!
<ScottL> thanks rlameiro  :)
<falktx> ScottL: i just added u as a friend on youtube
<falktx> ScottL: i'm starting to make audio/music/linux video tutorials
<falktx> ScottL: "deadbeatguitarist" will do the english voice
<ScottL> falktx, that is completely awesome!
<ScottL> i've been working on some "made with ubutnu studio" buttons that could be used in a video
<falktx> yep, i read the mailing list
<falktx> ScottL: have u checked the video?
<ScottL> falktx, also, have you played with the lv2vocoder?  i want to make a robot voice
<ScottL> falktx, i thought of a good splash screen thing that might work well for a video that includes voice
<falktx> I should make a tutorial about voice effects
<ScottL> heh, LOL, yeah
<falktx> reverb, chorus, vocoder, or even flanfer
<ScottL> falktx, i haven't looked at any videos at this point
<falktx> *flanger
<ScottL> falktx, one of the goals i had for our documentation was at least one setting per effect that new users could use
<ScottL> doesn't make them great settings, just okay, but at least it is a place for new people to start
<ScottL> oh, two sentences ago should have said "was at least one setting *documented* per effect"
<falktx> ok
<ScottL> i'm leaving for work but i'll be back on as 'scott-work' in 35 minutes
<ScottL> but before i leave i want to tell you that i apprecicate and feel fortunate for you efforts and i think you are helping to make linux audio a better place :)
<falktx> ScottL: thanks, i really do my best
<falktx> ScottL: i hope to get zynaddsubfx as a vst plugin soon
<falktx> that is not that easy
<falktx> ScottL: i got zyn as a dssi plugin
<falktx> ScottL: there's no gui, but u can use presets
<ScottL> zyn is also now in debian and should be in ubuntu real soon :)
 * ScottL is heading to work
<falktx> hm, zyn is already in lucid
<falktx> as my package
<falktx> and included in ubuntustudio
<falktx> AFAIK
<quadrispro> ehya guys
<quadrispro> ScottL, zyn has already been synced with Debian
<scott-work> falktx: i saw what you and quadrispro mentioned about zyn, sorry, sometimes i can be a bit slow :)
<scott-work> and i'm not sure why abogani removed any kernels from his PPA though :/
<falktx> scott-work: that rt removal is very sad
<falktx> scott-work: i copied the maverick packages to my ppa and i'm adjusting them now (to make them work!)
<scott-work> six days to debian import freeze :/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-19
<Sangeeth> Hi everyone...
<Sangeeth> How can i contribute to this team?..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-20
<ckontros> Yo guys.
<ckontros> ScottL: Anyone hackin' on new Studio art?
<ckontros> ScottL: I'm usually connected. PM me when you can. I'd like to see where things are at. Maybe a Skype or phone chat.
<ckontros> cheers
<falktx> ScottL: there might be an issue with having jack2 in maverick
<falktx> ScottL: image this situation:
<falktx> jack is stopped
<falktx> we start a jack app, which makes jack auto-starts
<falktx> jack will not stop after that app has been started
<falktx> using qjackctl, the user will not be able to stop jack
<falktx> because qjackctl kills jackd in order to stop jack
<falktx> but jack2 autostarting function never touchs jackd,
<falktx> instead, it is run by dbus
<falktx> so, when started over dbus, needs to be stopped using dbus, which qjackctl doesn't support yet
<ScottL> falktx, i'll dig into this and talk with TheMuso about it (he's much more knowledgeable than i)
<falktx> ScottL: Thanks, I'll talk to the author this weekend (!!), so I'll ask him about this
<falktx> s/this/next
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-13
<astraljava> Finally got mudita building on a sid pbuilder. It's still quite raw, for instance I'm missing copyright years and authors, manpages and info files, and I haven't yet filed the necessary bugs on BTS. But it's a start, aye? :)
<astraljava> Just need sleep now. Will continue tomorrow, and bug quadrispro for sponsoring.
<holstein> astraljava: awesome :)
<ScottL> outstanding astraljava !
<falktx> hey there
<scott-work> hi falktx
<falktx> hey
<scott-work> abogani: i started to test your -lowlatency kernel and realized that i needed an oneiric installation for it
<scott-work> abogani: unfortunately i was unable to get a working oneiric install though :(
<scott-work> i get to the lightDM screen, login, then are presented with the background but no menu or panels or anything :/
<falktx> scott-work: unity ?
<falktx> scott-work: I can suggest one thing - boot into recovery mode, network root, and install unity-2d. reboot and login into that
<scott-work> oh, i should point out i was trying to use vanilla ubuntu because i though it would be a quicker install
<scott-work> falktx: it didn't work with unity, or gnome, or the 2d option
<scott-work> but i will try your suggestions tonight or tomorrow night
<falktx> scott-work: note that I haven't tried oernn... yet, but if the desktop fails to show correctly just try another DE
<falktx> maybe KDE will work?
<scott-work> falktx: oh, i didn't think of that, i was holding off on trying xubuntu because i knew they hadn't worked out the lightDM bit yet
<scott-work> i figured that vanilla ubuntu would have the weight of canonical and shuttleworth behind it
<falktx> is it just me, or "oneiric" is really a hard name to remember?
<falktx> now I just use 11.10 most of the time...
<scott-work> i was using ocelot because it was an easier name for me to remember, but no one else was using it and seemed to prefer oneiric so now i'm using oneiric and it's easier to type now
 * scott-work got about 3.5 hours sleep last night and might be a little goofy right now
<falktx> scott-work: I had 4 ;)
<scott-work> i need about six to seven a night to function properly and i'm dead tired now
<scott-work> i wasn't too bad this morning and thought i could soldire on through the day
<falktx> some guys started working on a overhaul of my favourite game, I couldn't resist and played all night long...
<falktx> http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11960.0
<falktx> I just love that game since the first day I played it!
<astraljava> Hey guys, due to some recent problems emerging in our company, I had to start applying for jobs tonight, so couldn't progress with mudita. Hopefully tomorrow is a tad better time for that.
<holstein> astraljava: do what you gotta do... thanks for your work on it so far, and good luck :)
<astraljava> holstein: Thanks. Yeah I try to get as many applications going tonight, so that I am free for ubuntu-related stuff tomorrow onwards.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-14
 * TheMuso sighs. Ralf just doesn't get it.
<ScottL> TheMuso, why do you say this?
 * ScottL doesn't disagree necessarily, just interested in this particular instance
<TheMuso> Maybe I misread, but I don't think he understands the manpower issues that all free software projects face.
<ScottL> i have found ralf to have a uniquely interesting perspective for many topics
<iHaku> How has the work on the new desktop progressed?
<ScottL> iHaku, i think that lies with cory at the moment
<ScottL> i believe he has made progress and should have something after this weekend to upload the repos
<iHaku> Great.  I look forward to testing Studio in this release cycle.
<ScottL> good!  we look forward to you testing it :)
<ScottL> i'm still not certain that we will have a proper image to test until alpha 2 unfortunately
<ScottL> which is a bit bothersome and makes me a little uncomfortable
<Kokito> howdy
<Kokito> long time no see you folks
<ScottL> hi Kokito 
<ScottL> how are you doing?
<Kokito> busy like crazy, but I will survive ScottL :)
<Kokito> flying out this Saturday
<Kokito> hey ScottL , going to try to give you what I owe you tonight or tomorrow morning
<ScottL> that sounds good, is it something you can email me or will it require something else Kokito ?
<Kokito> will email you the DB dump and will ZIP all the files and put it up somewhere where you can download it from
<ScottL> muy bueno
<ScottL> i'm off to bed
<Kokito> haha!
<Kokito> have a good night ScottL 
 * saidinesh5 is feeling like a chimpanzee when trying to coordinate both his hands together on kis keyboard......
<saidinesh5> ever since i ve joined #ubuntustudio , i ve made it a point to practise some music everyday :D
<falktx> hi everyone
<scott-work> i'm still working on the xfce menu patch...sunday and yesterday did not turn out like i had hoped
<scott-work> falktx: ^^^
<scott-work> i should have it banged out either tonight or tomorrow
<falktx> scott-work: i just now realized all US bugs are reported to me too
<scott-work> lol...yeah they are :)
<falktx> scott-work: so I kinda expected the last bug to be about KXStudio, while it was really US
<falktx> (the ISO install issue)
<scott-work> falktx:  on the same topic, there are quite a few bugs about ubuntustudio-menu which doesn't remove or somethign correctly, do you think that is something you might be able to sort out quickly?
<scott-work> or will your menu patch possibly fix this as well?
<falktx> scott-work: the patch fix the non-removed items
<falktx> scott-work: please take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/796270
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 796270 in Ubuntu Studio "Installer failure ---separate / and /home partitions" [Undecided,New]
<scott-work> falktx: i've read a bit on that bug and i do not have a clue on how to address it
<falktx> scott-work: we don't have to do anything, it's ubuntu's fault
<scott-work> i usually add the separate /hiome directory after installing
<scott-work> other distros will allow a separate /home directory during installation :(
<falktx> such as ubuntu
<falktx> scott-work: I use this method too
<falktx> (separate home and root9
<falktx> we should link it to these bugs:
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer
<falktx> scott-work: I don't know how to link those bugs though...
<scott-work> falktx: ubuntu has an option to use a separate /home directory during installation?
<falktx> scott-work: yes, from quite some time
<scott-work> falktx: where it is during the installation?
<falktx> scott-work: you can even install /usr/local on a separate partition too
<falktx> scott-work: the disk setup
<falktx> (always in the disk setup)
<scott-work> is this during the partition part?  manual partitioning?
<falktx> scott-work: on the alternate cd/dvd you'll have to do things manually. on the live-cd you have a GUI option for it
<scott-work> falktx: that's totally bizarre, i've never seen this option!
<falktx> lol
<scott-work> falktx: now i'm worried that i've missed it before
<charlie-tca> It's not actually highly visible
<charlie-tca> and is there for manual partitioning, not automatic partition, right?
<falktx> nope, it's more like an avanced feature
<scott-work> i've an extra computer and i'll install natty or maverick and see if i can find it
<falktx> charlie-tca: in the ubuntu live-cd, if you don't have any partitions on disk, it will propose a separate home partition
<charlie-tca> really?
<falktx> if the disk already has stuff, ubuntu proposes to install ubuntu + old stuff resized
<falktx> charlie-tca: yes, I'm 80% sure...
<charlie-tca> Maybe I haven't used a new disk in too long
 * falktx re-formats his PC very often
<charlie-tca> I run installs every day or two, but usually have the disk with partitions already
<scott-work> i am highly intrigued now, tonight i shall use gparted to format the entire disc first as one partition, then i will install natty as an experiment
<scott-work> falktx: ^^^ this should propose a separate home parition, no?
<falktx> scott-work: yes, on the live-cd
<falktx> let me try to get a screen
<scott-work> right, with the live-cd
<falktx> hm, I only have the linux mint cd here
<charlie-tca> scott-work: I want to know if it works for you
<charlie-tca> I have never had it propose that on a guided install
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i'd be glad to let you know, i've never had it propose to me either
<falktx> I hope I'm not confusing Ubuntu with OpenSUSE on this
<falktx> I'm already downloading the official 32bit iso just to test this
<scott-work> lol
<holstein> saidinesh5: thats good news
<holstein> o/ everybody :)
 * charlie-tca waves
<holstein> saidinesh5: ive been playing more piano and guitar myself
<saidinesh5> holstein: :)
<saidinesh5> <secret>actually the  interesting thing is i ve met a pretty junior girl, who is interested in both signal processing math and music (isnt it awsome combination!!)</secret>
<saidinesh5> :P
<holstein> good times
<saidinesh5> So i have been digging up more and more resources, and she even writes for the college magazine
<saidinesh5> so we shall even have a nice wiki of how to do things :)
<saidinesh5> holstein: you got any tips for getting better co ordinating both hands?
<saidinesh5> looks like i still suck miserably , when trying good pieces like turkish march .....
<saidinesh5> or anything else....
<saidinesh5> i can play both fine when using single hand, no matter which......
<holstein> saidinesh5: actually, i do
<saidinesh5> :D
<holstein> drumming
<saidinesh5> drumming??
<holstein> even if its just with your hands on a book, or a table
<saidinesh5> Oh i do that *all* the time
<holstein> looking at rudiments
<holstein> paradiddles
<holstein> hemiolas
<holstein> anything thats challenging like that
 * saidinesh5 is googling
 * saidinesh5 never had any formal music training.... its just play by ear, or play via. computer :P
<holstein> get the notes out of the equation, and get the body making the large overall movements of the rhythyms
<scott-work> hi holstein 
<holstein> scott-work: YO
 * saidinesh5 waves at scott-work
<holstein> saidinesh5: im the kind of musician that will argue you have been formally training yourself :)
<saidinesh5> :D
<saidinesh5> i mean its been quite a while since i started my keyboard..... like around 7 years....... last 4 years it kinda broke (it still is).....so turned to the flute
<holstein> making yourself play nice even sounding steady notes while switching hands like
<holstein> R L R L R L R L R R L L R R L L 
<holstein> making that ^^ sound like you *didnt* change hands
<holstein> then some trickier things like R L R L R L R L R L L R R L L R 
<holstein> thats actually subtly challenging, and something even the most seasoned percussionist can alway work on
<holstein> or the total beginner
 * saidinesh5 was trying that out on his laptop
<holstein> with a metronome too, really slow is fine
<holstein> do this when you're alone, you dont want to try and impress your new girlfriend by doing it faster and faster ;)
<holstein> slow and steady is the idea
<saidinesh5> :)
<holstein> i always say, practice make permanent
<holstein> so, you just want to do it right
<holstein> no matter what
<holstein> even if its SUPER slow
<saidinesh5> hmm... yaa....... already on it.......
<saidinesh5> oh btw. holstein , is LADSPA still the standard when it comes to dsp plugins in linux audio??
<saidinesh5> or am i a bit outdated?
<holstein> good question
<holstein> i think theres a newer set
<saidinesh5> LV2 ?
<holstein> saidinesh5: you should get the OSMP channel talking about it
<holstein> i dont follow that enough to stay current
 * saidinesh5 takes this question to OSMP ..... 
<falktx> scott-work: charlie-tca1: I just noticed natty no longer has the separate home partition option now
<falktx> they totally changed the installer app!
<falktx> :(
<falktx> I know I saw that option at some time...
<saidinesh5> yes falktx, even i remember looking at it last time when i didnt use Wubi
<scott-work> oh, so can i guess we can close that bug and say "won't fix" and tell them to file a bug against ubuntu to add that option
<scott-work> or "invalid" perhaps would be better
<falktx> scott-work: well, the bug happened on the alternate installer, not the live-cd
<scott-work> falktx: have you used the TAL plugins (i know their in kxstudio)
<falktx> scott-work: yes, they are quite good, specially the synth
<scott-work> i think i'll file a bug with debian multimedia team to request packaging then
 * scott-work is always looking for new plugins to include
<falktx> scott-work: not possible, err... VSTs...
<scott-work> falktx: oh...didn't realize that
<scott-work> they looked soooo good too :(
<falktx> scott-work: I'm trying to make them work as DSSI though
<falktx> but I can only work on them later
<falktx> anyway, right now, for VSTs, debs are here:
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1547496/+listing-archive-extra
<falktx> qtractor handles these (kinda)
<charlie-tca1> That option went away maybe 2 releases ago, I think
<scott-work> falktx: i just saw this:  http://www.renoise.com/board/index.php?/topic/27843-tal-plugins-native-linux-versions/
<scott-work> says native linux versions
<falktx> yes
<falktx> I compiled them
<scott-work> oh, lol
<charlie-tca1> The only way to have separate root and /home is manually partitioning, and you can do it with the alternate cd
<charlie-tca1> live cd does not allow you to enter the partition names, so you have to use the partitions they have named in the partition window.
<falktx> scott-work: not sure if I already told you, but I plan to make a mega linux plugin pack, containing lots of (native) ladspa, dssi, lv2 and vsts
<scott-work> that would be awesome
<falktx> all pre-compiled for 32 and 64bit
<falktx> I think the community really needs pre-compiled plugins now
<scott-work> holstein: i was going to post meeting minutes but it looks like the motboot did a good job
<holstein> scott-work: yeah, i got the minutes from the bot, and i copied and pasted it from my session
<scott-work> there were a few other things that would be nice to document or mention but i'm not sure it's worth doing another list
<scott-work> "things" = other mentions that weren't picked up by the bot
<astraljava> Huh... luckily Startup Disk Creator worked even though it complained about incorrect version "GNU/Linux" on debian 6.0 netinst iso. :D
<scott-work_> astraljava: is that for the mudita24 build?
<astraljava> scott-work_: Yeah, gotta test that the package rolls a working application.
<scott-work_> at some point i should really have a debian install somewhere
<scott-work_> and i'm "old school", i still like images burned to CDs that i install onto harddrive
<scott-work_> which is actually not a very efficient use admittedly
<astraljava> Yeah I normally do that too, but since now I have a test machine that boots from a usb drive, I save on discs. :D
<scott-work_> yeah, i know :(
 * astraljava is finding the delving into debian a cool change of pace, got distracted for a while on #debian-devel @ irc.debian.org :D
<astraljava> Although I do seem to make it as ubuntu-like as possible, I guess I got used to some habits already, which are now hard to die.
<astraljava> NP: Royal Hunt - Moving Target (album), man... I had forgotten what a masterpiece this is.
<astraljava> Sorry for the blatant plug, but clearly all the greatest musicians come from Finland. Sibelius, Alexi Laiho, and the Porkka Playboys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irLsjBDPe5c&feature=share
<astraljava> Apologies for prolonging a stupid joke, but if you need something heavier, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci8IoKkHrjY&feature=share
<astraljava> Hmmm... well, at least the package is installable on an up-to-date sid. Just don't have a proper sound card there, which the application correctly reports. Does that count as success? :D
<astraljava> I need to buy a few more hard drives.
<astraljava> Looks like I need to have several differents systems running on this same machine.
<ScottL> astraljava, how many do you think you will need?
<astraljava> ScottL: Well, to be effectively testing on at least the latest LTS and current stable, develop on current devel and sid, plus a data disk, that means 5. :)
<astraljava> Okay, I've got one already, as the other one crapped out just mere weeks ago. Fortunately didn't have any precious data on it.
<astraljava> So, 4 more. I can live with 3 only, as I've got a usb drive, that can act as the data drive.
<astraljava> But still I need to figure out a sensible /home organization, as they can't possibly share a mutual one.
<astraljava> Okay, done for the day. Can still catch a few hours of sleep before the work begins. G'night! :)
<charlie-tca> astraljava: I use a 80Gb drive with separate root and /home for each installation. give root about 6GB and home 4gb.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Impossible, as I need to be able to do "guided - use whole disk" test cases.
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. For that I have a separate 20gb drive
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yep. And also, I often wanna play quite a bit on different releases. For that I need space. For instance, a couple of games eat several gigabytes (the sources).
<charlie-tca> true also
<charlie-tca> That's why I use the 80GB drive. I can give some installs more space with it.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Obviously I could use the data disk for storing those, but there are cases when it doesn't work.
<astraljava> But what with the prices of the disks these days...
<ScottL> i couldn't fit five drives into any of my cases :P
<charlie-tca> heh, I guess mine might be a bit old. I can get them in the case, but the motherboard usually handles 4
<charlie-tca> I have one case holds 5 x 3.5 drives, plus 4 x 5.25 drives
<charlie-tca> and, yes, it is a big case
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-15
<Kokito> howdy
<jussi> astraljava: ping
<astraljava> jussi: pong, check your email
<jussi> astraljava: received, thanks
<astraljava> jussi: That's enough?
<falktx> hey guys
<astraljava> Hey there.
 * abogani waves all
<astraljava> hey there Alessio!
<scott-work> hi falktx 
<scott-work> i need some guidance on how to test the xfce patch
<scott-work> hi abogani :)
<scott-work> hi astraljava 
<scott-work> falktx: i have an xubuntu install and installed ardour, qjackctl, hydrogen, and rakarrack which also brought in jackd and other stuff
<scott-work> i then installed the ubuntustudio-menu so i could see all the stuff in wrong places and then build the menu with the patch which should fix it
<scott-work> but when i installed the ubuntustudio-menu nothing seemed to change
<scott-work> before i screw something up (like isntall ubuntustudio-settings or ubuntustudio-look) is there something else i need to do?
 * scott-work is about to go into another 1 hour meeting :(  but i'll be back...in one hour ;)
<falktx> scott-work: hm, maybe I forgot something in the patch... ?
<falktx> scott-work: did you log out and log in back after the update?
<scott-work> falktx: i didn't build it yet, i only installed the ubuntustudio-menu from the repos
<scott-work> falktx: i expected to see hydrogen, et al in the wrong submenu category
<scott-work> basically i wanted to establish a baseline so i understood what the fix was and that it did in fact fix the problem
<scott-work> sorry if i'm being an idiot and misunderstanding some fundamentally simple issue
 * scott-work is really gone now for 1 hour
<falktx> scott-work: this can't be hard:
<falktx> apt-get source ubuntustudio-menu
<falktx> cd ubuntustudio-menu*
<falktx> patch -p1 < /my/patch
<falktx> debuild -rfakeroot
<falktx> then install the deb
<falktx> if something goes wrong, re-install ubuntustudio-menu form synaptic
<scott-work> falktx: i think i am not adequately explaing myself
<scott-work> falktx: i know how to get source, apply patch, and build....i'm before that part
<scott-work> falktx: i installed the ubuntustudio-menu as it currently is...i wanted to see the appilcations in the wrong places
<scott-work> but the menu did not appear to be _any_ different than the default xfce menu
<falktx_> scott-work: hm?
<scott-work> falktx_: i was given to understand that if i installed the ubuntustudio-menu in an xfce environment that the menu would be wrong
<scott-work> applicatiosn would be located incorrectly
<scott-work> i tried to do that last night in an xubuntu installation....i installed the ubuntustudio-menu
<scott-work> but the menu did not appear to change from what was installed by default
<scott-work> is there something that i am missing?
<falktx_> I'm getting confuse here too
<falktx_> scott-work: the current us-menu works, but items are some items not hidden in the xfce menu
<falktx_> errr, bad typing...
<falktx_> the current us-menu works, but there are some items not hidden in the xfce menu
<falktx_> scott-work: ^
<scott-work> right, like say ardour which should show up in the "Multimedia" menu but really should show up under "Audio & Video"
<scott-work> falktx_: is that correct?
<falktx_> scott-work: err, Ardour will show up in the usual multimedia menu
<scott-work> falktx_: but we don't want it to right?
<falktx_> Audio & Video = multimedia ?
<falktx_> scott-work: we want some custom apps to go into the audio or video submenu i guess
<scott-work> no, the xfce menu has a "Multimedia" menu
<falktx_> scott-work: I wish you were right here so I can explain this better...
<scott-work> maybe we should back up a bit further....what is your xfce menu patch suppose fix?
<scott-work> i thought you said that under xfce the ubuntustudio-menu didn't show applications in the categories that we intended them to be in
<scott-work> the [exclude] and [include] hacks didn't work under xfce as they did under gnome
<falktx_> scott-work: ok, let me try to be as clear as possible
<falktx_> 1 - gnome does not always follow the rules (so seems xfce)
<falktx_> the current us-menu work, as I see it, modifies the default gnome menu and inserts submenus
<scott-work> right
<falktx_> ^ this is wrong, cause it will be gnome only
<scott-work> okay
<falktx_> (kde may or not work, xfce will not work, other DEs are untested)
<scott-work> _how_ does xfce not work with ubuntustudio-menu?
<falktx_> scott-work: ah, let me explain
<scott-work> please
<falktx_> xfce and kde show the multimedia menu as usual
<falktx_> but also show the "audio production" and "video production" introduced by us-menu
<falktx_> so far so good
<scott-work> wait!
<falktx_> the problem is that the items inside "audio production" is not removed from the (parent) multimedia menu
<falktx_> what?
<scott-work> that sounds good but i was unable to replicate this last night!
<falktx_> scott-work: really?
<scott-work> can you describe a method that i can see this?
<scott-work> falktx_: yes, that is what i was trying to explain earlier
<scott-work> i have a fresh xubuntu natty installation and then installed ardour, qjackctl, hydrogen, and rakarrack
<falktx_> scott-work: with the default us-menu you should at least see the "audio/video production" sub-menus in xfce
<scott-work> after this installed i looked at the menu...sure enough, they appears in the "Multimedia" menu....this is expected
<falktx_> yep
<scott-work> then i installed the ubuntustudio-menu
<falktx_> k
<scott-work> but it didn't appear to add _anything_
<scott-work> i did not see any additional submenus
<scott-work> i was wondering if i was doing something wrong
<falktx_> scott-work: did you logoff/rebooted after the install ?
<falktx_> (us-menu install)
<scott-work> no, i did not
<scott-work> i shall do that tonight though!
<falktx_> well, there's your problem!
<falktx_> scott-work: after you install any type of custom menus, you'll have to reboot or at least logoff
<scott-work> see, i was doing something wrong!
<falktx_> scott-work: that will show the new "audio/video P", but as described earlier here
<scott-work> okay, i expect now to see some sort of hybrid menu with parts from both xfce and ubuntustudio
<scott-work> after that then i'll apply the patch, build the menu again, reinstall it, and then log off/on :)
<falktx_> scott-work: the ISO script is doing it's business
<scott-work> falktx_: outstanding!  that is very exciting news
<falktx_> I'm still downloading the packages (continuing from yesterday), but I hope to soon make it work for everyone
<astraljava> Gah! Network's being a bitch! Can't work today at all. Hopefully it's better tomorrow... :(
<falktx_> astraljava: network is a bitch to me everyday...!
<astraljava> Ahh, that explains it, the local cable company is having serious problems.
 * falktx_ thinks some don't realize how luck they are
<holstein> yeah, i think that sometimes
<astraljava> Well, it's still a far cry when compared to Japan or Korea...
<holstein> when im upset that i cant stream netlix or something
<holstein> sitting around whinning with a 20Mb download speed ;)
<astraljava> Hey! Only 12.8MB/s
<holstein> my upload is pretty crappy, but still
<holstein> im fortunate
<falktx_> errr
<falktx_> I have (at "work") 2 Mb connection!!!!
<ailo> In Sweden I've heard there is a plan to give most of the citizens 100 mb by 2020, which is not really that much.
<ailo> Not much considering it will be 2020
<holstein> i would be happy with a 10 or 15Mb both ways, up and download
<ailo> It really depends on the supplier I think. Most have a high download, but a low upload. Not everyone needs to upload high speed
<holstein> yup
<ailo> The main stream suppliers usually offer the standard deal
<holstein> i just dont think i have a good buisness level provider in my area
<ailo> How about mobile internet?
<holstein> still, i can get by just fine :)
<holstein> ailo: nah, not here
<holstein> thats *really* bad here
<holstein> we have decent 3g coverage or whatever
<holstein> it'll be years til the decent fast stuff is even some places downtown
<scott-work> ailo: lol, that is true
<scott-work> re: "100mb by 2020"
<astraljava> I understand the grief. However, you must understand some basics about geography and economy.
<astraljava> Most of the Nordic countries must rely on fast networks.
<astraljava> We're also considerably smaller countries than US, for instance.
<astraljava> Then if you take notice of the density of population in the Far East, you'll quickly learn why it is feasible for them to run optic fibre into the ground.
<astraljava> Also, you must realize the human reliance to certain quality of service.
<astraljava> For instance, I'm used to gaining access to ubuntu isos in a matter of few minutes.
<holstein> yeah, i take that for granted
<holstein> i just DL them
<astraljava> Now, it takes more than that to see where my cursor is over a terminal connection to a server in a nearby city.
<astraljava> So, I refuse to do any serious work in this situation, when I know that my efficiency heightens some 400% the next day, provided that the network regains it's normal quality of service.
<astraljava> Got cut off again... Hell, take this. A regular melodic progressive metal tune on Spotify is around 4 megabytes. Usually, it's here before I can say mydogjumpedoverthefenceandthenstoppedtolickhisballs.
<raboof> he was still licking his balls mid-jump? impressive.
<astraljava> I take pride over his training.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-16
<falktx> hi
<scott-work> hi falktx , sorry i didn't have any time last night to go through the menu issues
<scott-work> it is on the top of my ubuntu studio list however and it will get done
<falktx> scott-work: np
<falktx> I've been quite busy myself too
<falktx> hm...
<scott-work> ailo: have you given any additional thoughts about documentation?  do you have a list of pages?  would you like me to create a google doc and share it?
<scott-work> abogani: after i check falktx's menu i'll continue on again with testing the -lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> abogani: i have been having trouble getting a oneiric install to work lately, hopefully this coming week i fare better
<ckontros> Ok guys. Unfortunate news. Izo (like Jorge) has go a new, time-consuming paid gig. He had to back out. He gave me the sources to the wallpapers he was working on. I might be able to take them somewhere but we gotta look for a new art lead.
<ailo> ScottL, Haven't got a lot done yet. I had a look at the current documentation. I have some ideas. 
<ailo> For one, I suppose it would make to finish a documentation for Lucid
<ailo> Since it's the LTS
<ailo> And to me, it seems more reliable and easy to work with than any distribution since
<ailo> Any release* since then
<ailo> I thought about tagging. Maybe we should tag all US pages with a US tag, or is that already done? I haven't yet checked
<ailo> Other than that, I've just thought about what stuff to add and how to sort it. Nothing done yet though
<ailo> ScottL, You may create a google doc if you want
<ailo> I think that's a good place to organize stuff
<ScottL> ailo, that is probably a good idea for lucid
<ScottL> i also agree with tagging all our pages, this is an important thing in my opinion
<ScottL> also, i would like for all ubuntu studio pages to be linked from somewhere, preferably somehow from a home page
<ScottL> i'll start a google doc tomorrow
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-17
<scott-work> ubuntu is one of the most awesomess distributions on the face of the planet
<scott-work> but i can't understand why the wiki performs so poorly and frustratingly
<holstein> scott-work: im glad its not just me
<charlie-tca> um, they did give it a new update yesterday... Now it takes a LOT longer to log in
<scott-work> i wanted to edit one of the pages i use to plan releases
<scott-work> i have to log in again
<scott-work> i log in again
<scott-work> it takes me to the wiki.ubuntu.com home page
 * scott-work scratches his head thinking it didn't do that before
<scott-work> i click my bookmark to take me to my release planning page
<scott-work> it tells me i have to log in again
<scott-work> -> infinite cycle
<scott-work> holstein: i was rereading the OSM blog and rediscovered abgate, the lv2 plugin that is a noise gate
<holstein> yeah, i routinely get an error message when i save
<scott-work> i wanted to add it to the seeds for oneiric when i make the other changes
<scott-work> weird...after three tries, now i can go to this page and edit it :)
<astraljava> Yeah, that wiki SUCKS!
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I got the same nonsense logging in
<charlie-tca> The improvement appears to be another step backwards
<charlie-tca> At least before it took me to the page I wanted after login
<holstein> maybe its just outgrown itself
<holstein> the amount of users/pages
<charlie-tca> I haven' t seen any other moinmoin wiki so slow though
<charlie-tca> I think it has more to do with Ubuntu/Canonical changes that don't quite work
<scott-work> i didn't think the wiki worked well before, and it seems to be working less well now
<scott-work> :(
<astraljava> Yeah. Are the powers that be not using it at all?
<scott-work> i wouldn't think this should be a scalability issue
<scott-work> s/should/should NOT
<astraljava> Or is no-one just complaining about it?
<scott-work> unless they have an old P3 with 512M memory in a cupboard is being used for the wiki ;)
<charlie-tca> tried filing bugs against it?
<scott-work> i haven't filed a bug for this specific item at this point
<charlie-tca> I have; it results in " we are working on it, but it takes a while to get the changes approved" 
<scott-work> but i believe i have seen a bug about the wiki being so slow before and with all the errors
<astraljava> *rolls eyes*
<falktx> hi there
<scott-work> hi falktx 
<falktx> hey scott-work
<scott-work> i tried the menu dilliwhopper again last night
<scott-work> i rebooted and the menu looked the same
<scott-work> i even checked to see that ubuntustudio-menu was installed, which it was
<scott-work> should i install other ubuntustudio packages?
<scott-work> should i start with ubuntu studio install and then add xfce on top of it?
<falktx> hm....
<falktx> scott-work: the menu looked exactly the same? like no audio p. menu at all ?
<scott-work> correct
<scott-work> i did not see an audio submenu
<scott-work> and of course ardour, qjackctl,hydrogen, rakarrack were all in multimedia
<scott-work> falktx: there is possibly another issue
<scott-work> when i have tested installing ubuntustudio packages on top of a vanilla ubuntu install i needed to add a "other menu" widget to the panel
<scott-work> this gave me the ubuntustudio menu for that install (which was still on gnome2)
<scott-work> in fact i could have an icon for the vanilla ubuntu menu and the ubuntu studio menu on the same panel
<scott-work> could this be a similar situation?
 * scott-work had looked before for an additional menu widget to add to the panel but didn't find one
<falktx> scott-work: please test the us-menu with my patch and see if this is fixed
<falktx> scott-work: oh, the ISO script is kinda working now:
<falktx> http://kxstudio.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=kxstudio/kxstudio;a=blob_plain;f=scripts/kxstudio-create-iso;hb=master
<falktx> scott-work: I had some disk issues so I was unable to complete the ISO (kernel img went 0 size...)
<scott-work> falktx: will do (test with patch)
<scott-work> falktx: are you saying that i should try the script and that you expect it to work for me?
<falktx> scott-work: it should be able to create a basic iso right now, not sure...
<falktx> I was able to build the filesystem.fs, but because of that kernel thing it failed to create the boot
<falktx> hm, let me try it again...
<falktx> scott-work: the iso script is pretty much finished, I only need to add the auto-creation of the needed files for boot menu
<falktx> like boot.cfg, etc
<scott-work> falktx: super sweet!  in the next couple of weeks i'll be sending you some money via paypal :)
<falktx> scott-work: no hurry, I'm still testing this
<falktx-work> scott-work: the script is working!
<falktx-work> just some final details and it will be complete
<falktx-work> I'm amazed how I got this working so fast...
<falktx-work> scott-work: I'm rebuilding the squashfs now, I'll let you know how it goes
<astraljava> So is anyone here actually running natty at the moment?
<holstein> astraljava: i have test installs
<holstein> i DL'd xubuntu 11.10 last nite, and tried it live on my netbook
<astraljava> holstein: But are you running it right now?
<holstein> there was a nasty bug with the wifi card on this box and 11.04, and that seems to be sorted out :)
<holstein> astraljava: nah, but i can boot in if you need
<charlie-tca> Mine is oneiric
<holstein> i can be in it in 4 minutes
<astraljava> holstein: I wouldn't ask that of you. I'm just amazed that in my setup, there's no possibility of saving the currently running applications in Startup Applications.
<astraljava> This is a ubuntu vanilla install with all ubuntustudio packages.
<holstein> astraljava: is there anything like that normally?
<astraljava> Could something have messed up the original install, or has it been removed completely?
<holstein> i see an option when shutting xubntu down
<astraljava> holstein: Yeah there was at least in 10.10.
<astraljava> But I haven't installed vanilla 11.04 on anything else, and I didn't check before I installed ubuntustudio packages.
<holstein> astraljava: wheres the option and i'll check
<astraljava> System | Preferences | Startup Applications
<holstein> im just watching 'short circuit' and about to run out for a sandwich
<astraljava> There should be some tab where you could save them.
<astraljava> Haha. :D
<astraljava> I just had a pizza. :D
<holstein> OH yeah... i see that option in 10.04
<holstein> ive never used it though...
 * holstein checks natty
<holstein> astraljava: yeah, that tab is gone now it seems
<holstein> interesting
<holstein> i actually didnt install any of the meta packages on here either
<holstein> just JACK and ardour and some others
<charlie-tca> astraljava: that is in settings -> Session and Startup in Xubuntu
<holstein> thats from both classic and unity
<holstein> charlie-tca: still there in 11.10 for you?
<charlie-tca> May have gone with appearance settings in Unity, though
<charlie-tca> yes, Xubuntu 11.10 has that
<holstein> well, its moved or taken out in gnome and unity :/
<charlie-tca> You can also right click the panel, click panel, click logoff and mark it there
<charlie-tca> right, gnome/unity removed several thing
<astraljava> holstein: Thanks!
<astraljava> Damn, that's a loss.
<holstein> right?
<holstein> thats odd i think
<holstein> size maybe?... or unity integration i guess
<charlie-tca> You can't find what used to be system -> Preferences -> Appearance either now in unity
<holstein> yeah :/
<holstein> growing pains, at least i hope its growth
<holstein> alright... lunch... BBL
<scott-work_> charlie-tca: how did you install your oneiric?  i couldn't get the vanilla ubuntu to work
 * scott-work_ is wondering if he should have finished the backscroll before asking the question
<charlie-tca> I used the Xubuntu alpha1 image
<charlie-tca> I did not use Ubuntu's image, cause it drags in too much of Gnome
 * scott-work_ will be install xubuntu this weekend on his development machine :)
<charlie-tca> Keep in mind, we haven't had a good image for over a week now
<holstein> yeah, i was using xubuntu alpha1 too
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-18
<ScottL> troy_s1, do you have a minute for some questions about art?
<troy_s1> ScottL: LOL. Not sure I am the man to answer, but sure.
<troy_s1> ScottL: Now you are away. Ok. Ping me. If we get into sync, we caht.
<troy_s1> Chat even.
<ScottL> troy_s1,  ping
<ScottL> hi rlameiro 
<rlameiro> Hi ScottL 
<rlameiro> I just installed mint as day to day distro
<ScottL> mint is good
<rlameiro> cleaned up my disk on my lap and made room for a brand new ubuntu studio install
<rlameiro> let the testing beggin :D
<ScottL> it will be a while before we have a good image to test unfortunately :(
<rlameiro> any problem?
<ScottL> the transition to xfce, we are basically waiting on cory
<rlameiro> ohh
<rlameiro> why? theme?
<ScottL> well we need to adjust the -desktop seeds to xfce and remove gnome stuff
<ScottL> then he wants to include AWN but keep it from pulling in a lot of gnome dependencies
<rlameiro> ohh
<ScottL> and of course lastly if AWN is used then it will be a new UI to implent as well
<ScottL> s/implent/implement
<rlameiro> awm...
<ScottL> Avant Windows Manager
<rlameiro> yea, i know about it
<ScottL> cory has a screen shot somewhere but i can't remember the link
<rlameiro> i almost said on the ml that that is a mistake...
<rlameiro> i saw it
<rlameiro> he posted it at the ml
 * ScottL is taking the dogs outside
<troy_s1> ScottL: Email!
<troy_s1> ScottL: Email me. Probably will give me time to understand as my brain is pretty crap.
<rlameiro> ScottL: Ping
<rlameiro> ScottL: check https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003372.html
<rlameiro> I made a little script to set cpus to performance
<rlameiro> Will there be a control panels in us?
<rlameiro> maybe this could be integrated there
 * holstein high-fives rlameiro 
<rlameiro> yo holstein :D
<rlameiro> aweke so soon ? :)
<holstein> hehe, yeah
<holstein> got the day off though :)
<troy_s1> ScottL: Around.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-19
<ScottL> troy_s1, lol, i've been busy otherwise, if i don't catch you soon, i'll write an email tonight or tomorrw
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> i still think we need to better quantify what -controls is for, i think we're missing some stuff like rlamerio suggested
<troy_s1> ScottL: Hello.
<ScottL> hi
<ScottL> troy_s1, i have some simple questions i believe
<troy_s1> ScottL: Was that directed at me? Control? I have no clue what that means.
<troy_s1> LOL
<ScottL> troy_s1, no, that was just a generalized statement to the channel
<ScottL> troy_s1, i'm ignorant about how art should work in a F/OSS environment
<ScottL> troy_s1, is it uncouth to ask for help working up some art with a spec for a fee or bounty?
<troy_s1> ScottL: Erk.
<troy_s1> ScottL: I'd start by saying that I doubt I have anything of value to bring to the discussion, just pure opinion. Granted, it's probably from an alternate viewpoint.
<troy_s1> So... let's see.
<troy_s1> ScottL: The biggest thing that absolutely stinks about our culture is the lack of culture. People.
<troy_s1> There simply are effectively zero of the traditional creative minds in the culture. Some might cite person x or y, but let's face it, it's a joke. There aren't any. Period. Charlatanism.
<troy_s1> So, to that end, from _my_ vantage, I'd worry more about people than the work.
<troy_s1> ScottL: Sounds goofy I know, but it's rather like a garden. 
<ScottL> troy_s1, well, that is sort of the problem...people
<troy_s1> ScottL: I'd worry more about growing a particular plant than random worthless minds.
<troy_s1> ScottL: And that means being utterly careful about what is in the garden, around the garden, and how it is cared for. You can't just have 'everyone' - it's a myth. In fact, certain personalities are like awful Ph levels in a garden.
<troy_s1> ScottL: So it's a serious question. How to grow minds of a particular temperament.
<troy_s1> 1) Avoid toxic situations.
<troy_s1> Those situations are spec work. By spec work I refer _not_ to the money side, but rather the simple math of the "Let's have a contest"
<troy_s1> It doesn't work. Never has worked. The work is crap. The process is crap. The output is crap. And... more importantly, with respect to growing, it absolutely, utterly, and positively _fails_.
<ScottL> no, no contest, i have an idea, i want it effected
<troy_s1> ScottL: So really, again if this is about people, the trick is to get _one_. Not several.
<troy_s1> Look at Ubuntu proper... contests have done a world of good there eh? Not.
<troy_s1> Junk.
<troy_s1> There is no culture. Just random smatterings.
<troy_s1> And that matters. Because minds of a certain type beget minds of a certain type. 
<troy_s1> 2) Repulse toxic minds. Frankly, some idiot that shows up and starts talking about Fitt's this or Miller's that is just an idiot. There are no hard rules in art and design. There are applicable values and principles, but none are overarching and absolute. Context determines all. So having an idiot shouting out and trying to justify their worthless opinion with Fitt's this or xxx that will likely _repulse_ that mind you want.
<troy_s1> And in a nutshell, that's where I sit. 
<troy_s1> Pure gardening.
<troy_s1> Soil. Seeds. Grow.
<troy_s1> Not easy, but I'll go out on a limb and say that as a culture, we have utterly and miserably failed thus far. We have a creatively bankrupt and worthless cult of idiocy when it comes to art, design, presence, aesthetics, and all of those other valuable things.
<troy_s1> ScottL: Phew. Blah.
<ScottL> lol
<troy_s1> ScottL: Find me _one_ person in Libre with a degree of study in art and design. I dare you. Even the musicians tend not to stick around.
<troy_s1> ScottL: There is simply a gaping chasm. And if anyone is stupid enough to keep believing that they will magically eventually come, they are drinking far too much Kool Aid. In fact, there is a constant hemmorraging of those minds. Even they wander around, they are almost instantly repulsed by the cult of stupidity.
<troy_s1> hemorrhaging even.
<troy_s1> ScottL: Erp. I accidentally silenced you.
<ScottL> we had a guy helping with artwork but he got some paying job that is keeping him too busy
<troy_s1> ScottL: So?
<ScottL> no, you didn't silence, i was helping son with food
<ScottL> so, i still have an idea for a wallpaper that i lack the skills to do and i wanted to find someone to help me
<troy_s1> ScottL: Then you are probably already in trouble. Start the obvious way - find someone who's work you value. 
<ScottL> troy_s1, i can do that then, i'll start looking again
<troy_s1> ScottL: If you let someone wander away
<troy_s1> You have failed.
<troy_s1> Which is precisely my point.
<troy_s1> If you somehow manage to finally attract someone that does work that the team respects
<troy_s1> and that person wanders away
<troy_s1> that is cultural failure.
<ScottL> i don't know if this guy is going away for ever (i don't think so, just until the new, paying project is done), but i don't want to wait three or six months
<troy_s1> ScottL: If you value the fellow's work, ask her or him for another mind.
<troy_s1> ScottL: It is networking to a certain extent. Asking a meat cutter for an illustrator's name is likely... well you get the idea.
<troy_s1> ScottL: We have plenty of meat cutters, so to speak.
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, i suppose i could also hang out in #gimp or #inkscape or #whateverchannel and start bugging people to teach me how to do some of this
<scott-upstairs> i've already picked up a bit here and there googling stuff
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Do you really think you are going to find much talent in GIMP? That's exactly my point.
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, not really an artistic talent....no, i don't think i'll find that there
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, but i might be able to find someone to show me how to execute one part of my vision however...from a technical standpoint
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: It's just unlikely. Don't get me wrong, there's Revoy, Miranda, and a few others, but really, it's a bloody blight of talent. The tool likely is the starting point for that situation, but the practical reality is that it stems from the culture itself.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Maybe. My gut says that if you finally manage to attract someone that has the ability to execute, the likelihood that they are going to want to ink in a tattoo that someone else tried to scribble on a napkin is... low.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Not to sound too discouraging, but I think you can appreciate the problem there.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: If you have an idea. Do it. If you don't think you are capable, then perhaps there is much to be learnt there. 
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Fair?
<scott-upstairs> yes, that is a fair statement(s)
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Again, ignore the work.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: If you somehow manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat and manage to get someone you respect to pay a hint of a shred of time, try to water that relationship.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: It isn't easy just with that open ended clause, as you and I can probably agree yes?
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: So imagine how much incrementally more difficult it gets the moment that _anyone_ starts offering up their opinions.
<scott-upstairs> i'm not sure i understand what you mean by "open ended clause"
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Think about that for a moment. Think about if you had Dave McKean walk in for whatever reason. You suddenly have a tremendous bit of work. You have (A) Limited time to convince him that you value his work and that you would dearly love to have some of his work (B) You have a culture that likely will barf up something absolutely idiotic that will repulse him in a heartbeat (C) You have a culture that now wants t
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: The idea of having someone that you respect around with talent in a given capacity of the creative land is monumentally difficult in and of itself. The starting point is to build a relationship.
<scott-upstairs> right
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: And even then, if other like-minded folks show up, then that is one person among a thousand... Not much reason for them to stay, right?
<scott-upstairs> so i need to start looking at artwork again and emailing people again
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: I don't know. I personally think it is monumentally difficult. And most people simply don't give a crap about art and design and blah blah. Our culture shouts that out loudly.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: So I have no real clue on how to do it. We have a toxic culture that has become somewhat of a death spiral in terms of creative minds.
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, you are making me seriously considering just learning how to do what i want, it seems simpler ;P
<scott-upstairs> or at least more quantifiable
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Is it though? ;)
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: The biggest alarm goes off when I hear someone say, speaking of photography and saying "I know what I want" and they don't practice photography.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Same goes for art, illustration, etc.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: I'd encourage you to start with a mood board.
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, i believe i have a very good idea of what i would like to see and can describe it fairly well
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, what is a mood board
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Assuming you've batted around who the hell it is for, what you are trying to do, what you are trying to communicate... try a mood board.
<troy_s1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_board
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Let me show you one that I did recently for a video.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Give me an email that I can send a request to.
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Did you pm me? I don't have this nick registered.
<scott-upstairs> troy_s1, no i didn't pm, i can send it here:  scottalavender@gmail.com
<scott-upstairs> that's an open email that i frequently post in public
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Hold.
<troy_s1> scotta?
<troy_s1> scott a lav..
<troy_s1> okie.
<scott-upstairs> aye
<troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Check your mail.
<rlameiro> Anyone knows whats the icon theme that Cory wants to use?
<rlameiro> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1333955/cpu.tar.gz
<rlameiro> this script now doesnt uses cpufreq-selector, like this it doesn depend on the gnome applets, also has a button to start it:D
<rlameiro> ailo: ping
<ailo> rlameiro, pong
<rlameiro> ailo: how are you man?
<rlameiro> how is going the Controls app?
<ailo> Just fine. It's summer after all :)
<rlameiro> :D
<ailo> I'm very busy, so no real progress yet
<rlameiro> hummm
<ailo> Did you discuss something about that?
<rlameiro> ok, i made a little script to set all the cpu cores to performance
<ailo> Can I see it?
<rlameiro> check the back log
<ailo> I found them
<ailo> Checking them out
<ailo> Ok. I'll put in my vault. phew, time flyes
<ailo> rlameiro, Did you get the gig at the symphony orchestra you told us about?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-11
<ailo> Couldn't sleep and had a second look at the feature tour. Right now it's very clearly application orientated (aside from the main categoried, audio, graphics, etc). I'd like to make it workflow orientated, as in: recording, mixing, mastering, 3D modelling, movie making, etc..
<ailo> And for each workflow, lift out one application, while naming a list of applications related
<ailo> I also think we should add info on applications that we can't include in the repo, such as cinerella
<ailo> And linux-sampler
<ailo> Of course, keeping the categories
<ailo> ScottL: What came to mind is what is probably already spelled out by someone, or just in front of us. Workflow main categories, and sub categories
<ailo> ScottL: Also, I went ahead and added a category "publishing", which I hope is a good term for making e-books etc
<ailo> ScottL: Concerning publishing. From what I can see there are two popular apps besides Libreoffice: Scribus and Calibre
<ailo> Calibre seems very easy to get into. Nice templates
<len-dt> ailo, Looks good. I would say put it up. 
<len-dt> I like Lyx for publishing... but it may be kinda old now. It is book based as compared to document based.
<ScottL> ailo, right! my goal on the installation slideshow and web site home page slideshow was to talk about what the user wanted to accomplish, ala "want to record your band? we can help you"
<ScottL> which is very much aligned with the work flows, just that we are starting with what the user wants to accomplish (aka the end of the work flow)
<ScottL> and we keep it simple for the slideshows, just mention what we can do or help the user to accomplish
<ScottL> then the feature tour takes each of those topics and breaks it out a bit and mention some of the outstanding features of them
<ScottL> e.g. unlimited tracks and 200+ installed plugin effects for "recording your band" or "recording audio"
<ScottL> maybe not the backbone of the audio work (jack really is the backbone) but these are "sexy" selling points that probably will draw new users in
<ScottL> ailo, while i know that scribus is a robust DTP, i'm not sure it can convert to EPUB or similar...of course, i don't know that it can't either :)
<ScottL> calibre does convert to EPUB, which is what i used last night
<ScottL> the calibre website has a nice set of tutorial links that are really helpful
 * ScottL is heading to bed now and probably won't be having trouble sleeping
<len-dt> ScottL, that pod cast on gnuworldorder was very informative and complete.
<len-dt> It appears that importing video in real time is a communication tool rather than an artistic tool. Streaming into the machine seems to be a last resort and then straight to disk anyway. Not for live editing.
<ScottL> astraljava, i did not work on the xfce4-utils problem, however i will bump it in priority and will do it tonight
<ailo> ScottL: I'm gonna add publishing to the website today, even though we don't preinstall those packages. Please do review the entire site once you get the time for it though (I will also polish a couple of pics today)
<astraljava> ScottL: ACK
<ailo> scott-work: I'd like to wait with workflow orientated docs until next release. The website I think should be published before that. I'm eager to get going with other items. Also, I feel I could do a lot of good work on documenting work flows, however, I will need more time and research, and that will have to wait until later
<ailo> As always, I'm unclear. I'd like to publish when 12.10 is released. But, wait with the work until later. And just publish the web site as soon as possible
<ailo> I swear, I must have some kind of a weird brain damage
<ailo> The workflow docs should be published in time for the 12.10 release, while the website should be published as soon as possible. That's what I'm trying to say :P
<ailo> scott-work: Right, all done for now. Will do other things for a while. Let men know when you've had a look.
<scott-work> i'm not sure any documentation is required for the website at this point
<scott-work> i wasn't expecting the feature tour to actually explain anything in any great technical detail. rather i viewed it more as a sales job, kinda like the lightworks link you put up yesterday
<scott-work> oh, wait, maybe i'm saying what you are saying :P
<scott-work> nevermind
<scott-work> ailo: one thing i do want to mention is that i feel we should focus firstly on documentation for what we ship in contrast to applications we don't
<scott-work> so i would prefer if we got the documentation complete for the included apps before we start documenting linux sampler, cinelerra, etc
<ailo> scott-work: The problem with linux-sampler and cinerella is that there aren't anything to substitute them in the repo
<scott-work> of course i realize this is all volunteer work and you are also free to work on whatever you would like
<ailo> So, people will want to install them
<ailo> I wouldn't add info on proprietary software, but these two are special
<ailo> They are GPL, only a bit more restrictive
<ailo> I feel like it would be hiding good info not telling about those apps
<scott-work> ailo: i'm certainly not against having documentation for these applications, it's just that i would prefer getting the stuff we do ship complete first, that's all :)
<scott-work> but again, you are certainly free to do as you wish :)
<ailo> scott-work: Another thing missing from the mix is talking about vst
<ailo> That is something many people wonder about
<ailo> I think, if Ubuntu Studio is to be the center of linux multimedia production, which is sort of natural for Ubuntu Studio in my view, we can't be too specialized. That would mean we need to open doors to all directions. If not have things preinstalled, and preconfigured. Either provide docs, or links to docs
<ailo> I'm sure falktx wold be a great asset in expanding that area
<ailo> scott-work: What is your view on providing a semi-official Ubuntu Studio ppa, bwt?
<ailo> That would make it possible to install all those applications that we can't right now
<ailo> Sort of like a "super-ugly" repo
<holstein> ailo: for an rt kernel? and other goodies?
<holstein> VST's?
<ailo> Sure
<holstein> interesting
<holstein> i like using the KXstudio ones
<holstein> gives falk a little press too
<ailo> falk would be the logical person to handle the ppa, since he already has it all set up
<ailo> I say, semi-official, since I can't really decide what would speak against of for it, and what the rules would be to allow for applications to exist there
<ailo> I'm going to try putting up custom kernels to my PPA today. quantal builds
<scott-work> i have thought about including certain things in an ubuntu studio ppa, but have been actively discouraged before by a few people
<scott-work> these items would be ones that aren't or can't be included in the repos
<scott-work> however, if falktx is going to keep the kxstudio ppa going we probably should use it rather than invest the effort to create our own unless it creates problems (e.g. different/later/addition libraries enable applications that conflict)
<ailo> We might want a different config for a Ubuntu Studio ppa
<scott-work> also this keeps anything that "shouldn't" be in the repos once removed from ubuntu studio might keep it more under the radar and less likely to be removed
<scott-work> ailo: what type of config differences do you mean? for the ppa or for the applications?
<ailo> The choice of applications + build options for the applications
<scott-work> but you don't have any thing specific at this point? just an open option?
<ailo> I know the contents of his ppa's too poorly to have any opinions
<scott-work> okay, i just didn't know if there was something specific that you already knew about that should change
<ailo> He's separated packages into different ppa's as well
<ailo> We might not want to do that
<ailo> Just keep everything in the same ppa
<ailo> Also, he keeps doubles of Ubuntu packages, but more up to date
<ailo> We might only want special packages. Not updates
<ailo> Like a vst version of ardour, wine-vst, cinerella, linux-sampler
<ailo> But not the lates ffado, or jack, unless it really serves a purpose
<ailo> The Ubuntu Studio PPA would an addon, adding things that you can't install from regular Ubuntu. Not an upgrade
<ailo> damn, no gpg-agent
<ailo> Er, never mind
<ailo> len-dt: First kernel uploaded. Hopefully it builds. We might not need to do a lot of kernel testing, but hopefully we have that option soon
<ailo> Nothing there yet ppa:ailo.at/kernel-testing
<ailo> First upload is a simple lowlatency version of the latest quantal kernel. Whenever we want to try a different config, I can add a new kernel for testing
<ailo> If this works out, I'll add a howto later. It's based on the scratchpad that Scott put together from alessios lowlatency upload, only I deal with the main ubuntu git tree
 * scott-work just noticed his webchat wasn't working :(
<scott-work> ailo: which parts of the work flow documentation do you feel we should wait?
<ailo> scott-work: I just meant wait with publishing until 12.10. I'd like to spend more time on that, and feel I can do a lot of good work for it. Also, I'd like to create some sort of a simple user guide for the main web site
<ailo> Right now I would just like to finish the web site, get it published more or less as it is, and get on with other things for a while
<ailo> Given I can find enough time between now and the 12.10 release (I will get a bit busier soon), I feel confident I can assemble more or less full docs on everything we've been talking about.
<ailo> ScottL: Again, I'm not being very clear with which is what. I want to publish the web site now, but wait with all the workflow orientated stuff until later, and have that ready for publishing in time for 12.10 release
<len-dt> ailo, I do use falktx's ppa for one of my machines. It does upgrade jack, qjackctl, etc sooner than ubuntu. I have had no problems as yet... but all of his stuff starts a ladish session complete with the overhead involved in that. I do not know if this is a good or bad thing.
<len-dt> As I have low mem machines, I am perhaps more sensitive to things like that. However, It has not caused me problems so far.
<falktx> len-dt: starts ladish? how? that is not the purpose of it at all
<len-dt> falktx, perhaps I am using the wrong term.
<len-dt>  Maybe it is a jack session... actually this time it did not.
<ailo> len-dt: The purpose with the PPA would be to supply extra packages, not upgrades. Otherwise, we might as well keep all of the packages in a PPA
<len-dt> OK when I start zynjacku I get a message saying ladi session started
<ailo> falktx: I was discussing the possibility of having a Ubuntu Studio Extra ppa, with packages that cannot be included in the Ubuntu repo, like linux-sampler, cinerella etc
<len-dt> Can we specify which packages come from where?
<ailo> What do you mean?
<ailo> Right now, I don't think we're assisting in any package maintanance, except Ubuntu Studio desktop stuff
<len-dt> ailo, I originally added the ppa to get an extra package (zonage). But once I added it I have been getting upgrades as well.
<ailo> Oh, I haven't looked into that. Things like that should be possible to configure
<len-dt> Could we specify that only extra packages come from an outside ppa as part of the distro config?
<falktx> len-dt: zynjacku is an odd case, it uses python-lash that brings ladish
<falktx> len-dt: I think that if you remove liblash-compat-1debian0 it wont anymore
<len-dt> falktx, Not a complaint, I think we mentioned this before. I just wanted us to be aware of things. I could remove ladish, but as it is a part of US, I would prefer not to. I want to get to know it so I can answer questions about US as a whole.
<ailo> Does it normally take more than 3-4 hours to sources to upload and begin building at a PPA?
<scott-work> ailo: you can click on 'view details' to see how long it might be scheduled
 * scott-work realized his webchat crapped out again
<scott-work> ailo: it depends on what else is building currently, they schedule by importance. i have had my stuff delayed for two days before
<ailo> scott-work: Really? My upload hasn't showed up at all yet. Well, hopefully it'll pop up in time
<falktx> len-dt: lash != ladish
<falktx> len-dt: liblash is implemented in ladish, but not required for it to work
<scott-work> ailo: check your email then for a rejected source
<falktx> ailo: sometimes takes a few minutes, other times a few hours. when rare situations it can take days
<falktx> len-dt: note that zynjacku is no longer being developed, and new plugins will not work at all in it
<falktx> zynjacku is not lv2 1.0.0 ready
<len-dt> falktx, how about lv2rack?
<len-dt> I know it doesn't do the same thing, but it looks like the same dev.
<scott-work> i think zynjacku and lv2rack both come from the same source code
<len-dt> scott-work, so are there other rack type apps to take their place? Or are they even needed?
<scott-work> len-dt: manytimes i think people use ardour to host lv2 effects, also there is jack-rack which is separate from everything else we have talked about
<falktx> len-dt: it's the same thing, yes
<len-dt> jackrack is ladspa
<falktx> len-dt: I'm working on my own app for this
<falktx> here's an old screenshot:
<len-dt> The main use for standalone containers like that is live softsynth use.
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr081.png
<len-dt> That looks pretty ;-) 
<falktx> scott-work: I'm hoping to be releasing my Cadence tools as beta1 this month, so maybe it can be pushed to debian or ubuntu
<falktx> len-dt: thanks! it's hard work to make everything look nice, but it pays off
<falktx> scott-work: once the beta1 is out and packaged, it will be easier to put UbuntuStudio related integration in there (via bug&patches)
<len-dt> falktx, does each module show as a separate midi/jack port?
<falktx> also being packages means a wider audience too
<falktx> len-dt: yep, all plugins instances show as separate jack clients
<falktx> parameters are automable via midi-cc
<falktx> there are some hidden tricks in there too
<len-dt> That was one of the things I noticed about zynjacku, it seems there is only one midi input.
<falktx> supports ladspa, dssi, lv2 and vst (no vstsdk required though). also loads gig, sf2 and sfz sound banks
<falktx> I want to support *everything*
<len-dt> falktx, sounds like it.
<len-dt> That is just sound gen plugins? or does it do effects too?
<falktx> all kind of plugins
<falktx> they are just exported to jack
<len-dt> Down the road it would be nice to use one app to replace three or four like that.
<len-dt> falktx, right now we have a dssi container, a ladspa container, an lv2 synth and an lv2 effect container... and no VST.
<len-dt> falktx, being able to replace all of those with one app, would be much more user friendly/intuitive ... pick you word.
<len-dt> It translates well to a hardware rack that people (well me anyway) are used to.
<len-dt> The user doesn't have to think about what kind of synth it is... just midi in and audio out.
<falktx> damn internet
<scott-work> i've been having trouble with webchat dropping but not disconnecting :/
<ailo> 2
<ailo> hmm, is wine changing?
<ailo> I thought the maintainer had stopped maintaing for Debian, but now it has appeared again to Wheezy
<ailo> I don't recognize the packages. There's a lot of them
<ailo> Interesting to see if it will be the same for Ubuntu
<ailo> nah, never mind
<len-dt> ailo, I got a "Len we have to go now and pick up a piano"...
<ailo> len-dt: Hope it's a small one :)
<len-dt> Sort of mid... 46inches tall
<len-dt> Old and in need of love.
<ailo> Old and heavy probably 
<len-dt> But at least my wife didn't pay much
<len-dt> A steel sound board is a steel sound board.
<len-dt> It is in our living room now.
<ailo> Mine is light enough for two guys. 2 stings per key on the higher octaves, and a lot of the wood can easily be lifted off
<ailo> 2 strings*. Also, not the full key range
<ailo> Bach and Mozart works. Some Beethoven needs a bit lower notes than what I have
<len-dt> This is full range, 3 strings on the top half... except the the 4 or 5 that are missing...
<ailo> len-dt: No backs hurt?
<len-dt> I'll know tomorrow ;-)
<len-dt> Most pianos can be moved with two people if it is done right.
<ailo> I guess that depends on the guy and the piano
<ailo> But sure, equipment should help
<ailo> 3 strings makes a much fuller sound. I'll get a bigger piano later on (when I have a place to keep it)
<len-dt> Most "electric grands" have two.
<ailo> Yeah, they sound a bit guitarish almost
<len-dt> piano and guitar are already a lot a like. mixing a piano and guitar and being able to hear both at the same time is an art.
<ailo> Mine is pretty soft for a 2 string, but lacks some depth. Works well enough for Back, as I mentioned. Just hard to get any great atmosphere
<ailo> Bach*
<len-dt> I'm not a kb player really. It's for my wife.
<len-dt> She plays guitar as well, but I think piano is pretty new for her.
<ailo> Piano is cool to have at home. Good to have if the kids get insterested in music
<len-dt> I hope so. I will have to fix it up and tune it...
<ailo> Never done that yet myself. Shouldn't be too hard. Just gotta have an ok mic and a good tuner
<ailo> And time
<ailo> Imagine tuning a church organ
<ailo> They usually change tuning during the seasons
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-12
<len-dt> ailo, you mean like a pipe organ? Takes a long time and at least two people.
<len-dt> Its what you get when you take bag pipes as far as you can...
 * astraljava smirks at Len's remark
<scott-work> astraljava: i got hung up late at the office last night dealing with something and didn't get the xfce4-utils issue fixed
<scott-work> it's kinda funny/sad but i had even turned my computer off and was leaving work when i threw a comment at someone which then pulled me into a converstaion/situation which put me at home almost three hours later than i had hoped :/
<astraljava> scott-work: Yikes! I hate such comments. :D
<scott-work> eh, it happens i suppose, but since i'm leading up the integration process at work it's only getting worse :(
<scott-work> and it seems like most tend to look for the easy answer instead of doing the leg work themselves to answer questions (i.e. "go ask Scott, i think he's done this before")
<scott-work> the good news is that as i can disseminate information and train others, then demands on my time will diminish :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-13
<ScottL> heh, despite a thunderstorm that knocked out the electricity for most of the evening, i did manage to update the seeds for xfce4-utils. hopefully tomorrow's image builds
<micahg> ScottL: I think it still needs an upload, what about the other changes for xfce4-utils
<ailo> Had forgotten to update my launchpad with a new gpg key :(
<scott-work> good morning
<len-dt> gm
<astraljava> o/ everybody
 * len-dt is off to work...
<knome> Xubuntu community meeting in about 50 mins at #xubuntu-devel. Everybody is welcome! Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
 * astraljava strongly recommends people to pay attention to this meeting, it's a great learning experience for our community as well, They Do It Rightâ¢
<knome> hah. putting the pressure on me.
<knome> :)
<astraljava> You've still got a little bit to go to become a diamond.
<knome> quite a lot looking at my middle-body
<knome> what time is the QA roundtable again?
<knome> in the email, it says 3pm GMT (no dst), when you click on more details, it says 4pm GMT (no dst)
<astraljava> Hmm... I'll have to ask at the end of the current one.
<knome> thanks
<knome> google cal says 4pm
<astraljava> Ok. And I can't check as it's for my other email, and stupid google calendar can't merge email addresses.
<knome> hmm. google allows multi-login nowadays though
<knome> i don't use it, but i've seen google asking me to
<astraljava> It does, but my ubuntu email address isn't a google account.
<astraljava> Maybe I need to make it one.
<knome> heh
<knome> maybe
<astraljava> Hmm... how does one create a google account these days? I'm not seeing a "sign up for an account" link/button/monkeyhead anywhere.
<astraljava> *oops*
<astraljava> It's there.
<knome> huho, i don't know. i only use apps for domain
<astraljava> OH LOOK! A FLYING COW!
<scott-work> astraljava: meeting this weekend? we sort of had a informal series of discussions last weekend
<scott-work> if so i can try to put together an agenda and send out an email about it
<astraljava> scott-work: It's certainly doable, and very strongly encouraged with huge appreciation to go with it. Let me get back to you on that. (I like typing that, it's the third time in 8 minutes or so...)
<astraljava> meh... it wants to make it a @gmail.com account. I don't want that.
<knome> astraljava, what would you like it to be then? :P
<scott-work> lol..."letmegetbacktoyouonthat@gmail.com"?
<astraljava> knome: I'd like to have an account that somehow identifies with another email address, doesn't matter what account it is.
<astraljava> scott-work: You're a miracle!
<knome> astraljava, buy a domain ;]
<knome> astraljava, it's about 10 euros per year, and with joker, you don't even have to worry about having any hosting.
<astraljava> Hmm...
<knome> astraljava, you can even register letmegetyouthat.info
<knome> ;)
<knome> that'd be 4 euros for the first year for a promotion price.
<astraljava> knome: Did you see that on -meeting?
<astraljava> 1600 UTC
<knome> what?
<knome> no, i'm not on -meeting
<knome> but thanks.
<astraljava> Ok.
<knome> -meeting is just a lot of spam :)
<astraljava> bah
<knome> well, mostly at least.
<astraljava> Oh yeah, talking about doing the meetings right. Have a look at the kernel team's minutes (if it has timestamps) sometimes. Talk about efficiency.
<astraljava> It's usually the most vocal meeting there is, and it's usually over in less than 7 minutes. *grin*
<knome> hah.
<astraljava> If you miss it, you miss it.
<astraljava> No coming in late.
<knome> :)=
<knome> that should be the policy for our meetings too.
<knome> set up #xubuntu-meeting and set as invite only when the meeting has started.
<astraljava> ...and close up before ten minutes have passed.
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Yep, that's the way it should be run.
<ScottL> micahg, does the iso build anyways without an upload to the meta? i thought we saw that it did before
<ScottL> micahg, what other changes did you mean for xfce4-utils, i made sure -session was included in the seeds and libxfceui-utils was included as well
<ScottL> scott hopes this irc chat is working currently
<micahg> ScottL: it does if the meta packages that are included on the ISO don't conflict with anything :)
<scott-work> astraljava: haha!
<astraljava> I just had to.
<len-dt> ScottL, the ubuntustudio-settings package recommends xfce4-utils
<micahg> oh and FWIW, libav-extra is broke ATM, it's on my list to upload
<micahg> but TBH, it'll probably be the weekend before I get to it
<micahg> if someone wants to fix the other broken bits, I"ll be happy to sponsor them this weekend as well
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-14
<ScottL> Len-nb, ah, thanks
<micahg> ScottL: please see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/13/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html#t23:06
<ScottL> gah, i'm an idiot sometimes! i made change in the natty seeds for some reason for the xfce4-util change :|
<ScottL> i'll fix it in a bit
<micahg> ScottL: ooh :), still won't fix anything until a meta upload is done (and no ISO until libav-extra is uploaded and gimp-plugin-registry are fixed)
<micahg> and probably ubuntustudio-default-settings is fixed as well
<len-dt> anybody know much about the abit MBs? I have an ic7-g. It is supposed to take up to 4G ram.
<len-dt> It had 4 256m sticks in it. I got 2 1G sticks.
<len-dt> There are 4 slots, I can not use slots 1 or 2 with the new ram. I can put them in 3 and 4 so long as at least one of the 256M sticks is in 1 or 2.
<len-dt> It shows all the ram, but somewhere in the kernel load it reboots. I can have one 1G in slot 3 or 4 and fill the rest with my 256M sticks for 1.75G.
<len-dt> It is not easy finding an Abit website that works. Finding bios updates seems to be problematic...
<len-dt> ailo, I have gotten myself a UM-1G USB midi interface (cakewalk/roland)
<len-dt> I will test for timing problems.
<len-dt> It has two modes (dumb and smart, or standard and advanced) I will try both.
<ScottL> micahg, reverted change to natty seeds (i realize nothing really needs to be done further to that), updated quantal seeds, updated -default-settings, and downloading bzr branch for libav-extra
<ScottL> is the gimp-plugin-registry breaking because of libav-extra?
<ScottL> and aren't we using a special libav-extra for studio?
<len-dt> ScottL, gimp-plugin-registry was broken before the extra problem showed up.
<micahg> ScottL: nothing to do for libav-extra, I just need to test and upload from pkg-multimedia, if you can work on gimp-plugin-registry, that would be good
<micahg> gimp-plugin-registry was broken before, yes
<ScottL> okay, can i look at qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs for the gimp-plugin-registry logs, micahg?
<ScottL> or is there a more expedient or practical place to look
<micahg> ScottL: yes, that's fine
<scott-upstairs> micahg, it looks like this is the problem, but i haven't a clue where to go from here
<scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
<scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
<scott-upstairs> hold on...
<scott-upstairs> build/buildd/gimp-plugin-registry-5.20120523/resynthesizer/bootchk-resynthesizer-28cade5/src/resynthesizer.c:314: undefined reference to `g_thread_init'
<scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
<scott-upstairs> the first line had a leading backslash that was causing it not to show
<micahg> that's the issue, g_thread_init needs to be removed
 * scott-upstairs is getting bzr branch for gimp-plugin-registry now and a glass of water
<scott-upstairs> micahg, i'm guessing that " g_thread_init(NULL);  // Init threading system, not necessary after glib 2.32" line can be removed or commented out?
<scott-upstairs> from the refinerThreaded.h file
<micahg> scott-upstairs: yes
<scott-upstairs> micahg, do you use schroot to test build packages?
<micahg> scott-upstairs: yes
<scott-upstairs> is there a good tutorial for that?
<scott-upstairs> i know the wiki.ubuntu.com has a page on schroots
<micahg> scott-upstairs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment
<scott-upstairs> micahg, thanks!  i'm got to get up in about 7.5 hours so i'm going to start shutting down, i'll continue work on this tomorrow
<astraljava> Is it not possible to let the image build status emails directly to the list? Or failing that, can't the credentials be shared for the mailing list? Is there something we could do to speed up the queue?
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh so that's why the natty seeds were updated so recently. I kinda wondered about it, but didn't stop to really think about why. :)
<micahg> someone just needs to whitelist the from address
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks. Now who can do that? Apparently Scott can, but is there anyone else? Should there be someone else?
<micahg> astraljava: that's up to ScottL
<astraljava> Ok, I'll have a word with him. :) Thanks!
<scott-work> micahg: i shall read that schroot today at some point at work. if you wouldn't mind sharing your work flow (pastebin of an existing one or just a categorical list of the process) i would greatly appreciate it
<scott-work> my current process has been to load the code locally on my production (audio) machine and then build in pbuilder to test build, but then i typically only use my ppa to build when i am familiar with the applicaiton and then after it builds i install it on a development machine running the dev release
<scott-work> as you can see, that is a complicated and not very elegant solution and i greatly desire to streamline it
<scott-work> oooh, micahg, this appears to be what i was looking for:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment#Typical_package_build_procedure
<micahg> scott-work: yeah, but you don't need umt
<scott-work> i think i can minimize my development setup to a single 64 bit machine this way
<scott-work> micahg: what would you recommend then, just sbuild via schroot?
<micahg> scott-work: I actually have aliases set up for the chroots
<micahg> sbuild -c quantal-i386-shm -d quantal --arch i386 -A (for quantal i386, remove -shm if you didn't set up the overlay to build in RAM)
<micahg> sbuild -d quantal-amd64-shm (for quantal amd64)
<micahg> just put the .dsc file after those calls
 * len-dt has figured out his memory problem
<len-dt> ailo, I need to know which setup you used that had midi problems.
<len-dt> So far I have not had any midi timing errors, internal or USB.
<ailo> len-dt: The problem only arises when I use my xv-5050
<ailo> It has its' own midi port through usb
<ailo> The problem went away if I used my firewire device with jack midi
<ailo> Firewire devices only support jack midi, as you might know
<ailo> So, I connected the firewire device with a midi cable to my Roland xv-5050
<len-dt> Ya, I have a cakewalk usb midi. So far it has just worked fine.
<ailo> Can't remember if I had my m-audio usb midi device in the mix. It needs firmware to work
<ailo> I need to go through that stuff again
<len-dt> I was just wondering if there was some way I could stress test it.
<ailo> How I noticed my problem was when I recorded the output from the xv-5050
<len-dt> ailo, the machine I was using it in has two midi IFs
<ailo> Not even a single bar was even close to being in sync
<len-dt> So that would be qtracktor?
<ailo> I also tried Ardour3
<len-dt> Hmm, I wonder if that is because the highres timers are not accessible to user space as US 12.04 ships.
<ailo> jack midi worked just fine
<ailo> jack midi was more or less precisely accurate
<ailo> len-dt: Do you have a external synth device?
<len-dt> Yes, but I haven't tried it with the new IF yet.
<len-dt> I will record an external KB and play it back to an external synth then.
<ailo> len-dt: Better you write the midi, or at least make sure it's quantisized
<ailo> Send a loop to the synth using alsa midi, and record the output
<len-dt> ailo, I was thinking of using a beat box.
<ailo> One way to hear the result directly is to just copy the result, and paste it at a different position, so the audio overlaps
<ailo> I mean copy the newly recorded audio file
<len-dt> Ok.
<ailo> For me, each instance of the loop was different, and I was unable to get even one that was usable for the song I was recording
<len-dt> ailo, I tried inputting from a beat box and then outputting to the same beat box. I could hear the slight delay from the original to the processed, but the delay seemed to be consistent
<len-dt> That was alsa in to alsa out.
<len-dt> I think recording it is the key.
<len-dt> ailo, in other news... Got more ram for the desktop. Now have 2.5G
<len-dt> I had to take one stick back... it was missing a bit.
<knome> hooray
<ailo> len-dt: Delay was not the problem for me. Just that each note was randomly out of sync with some +/- ms
<len-dt> The YC20 synth almost works for me now.
<len-dt> Ya, I remember that. I suspect it has something to do with the software not having timing.
<ailo> If it's fixable, then we should really get it done :)
<len-dt> Alsa, has access to the hirez timer because it is not user space, but kenrnel module.
<len-dt> I would like to think it is a simple as changing the settings so that the hirez timer is part of the audio group.
<len-dt> We went to the trouble of making it a part of the kernel, now we need to make sure the SW can use it...
<ailo> Wasn't this what did that? http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration#hardware_timers
<len-dt> Ya that looks right. But we don't ship tha way.
<ailo> I'll test that once I get a chance
<len-dt> ScottL, ailo and others, I may not be available at all this weekend. I am gone from tomorrow morning till Sunday evening. My oldest son is getting married.
<ailo> May he stay in love with his wife and not grow a "Ã¶lmage" (beer belly)
<len-dt> They have been seeing each other a number of years. It looks good.
<ailo> And if there's not at least one corpse after the wedding fiest, it was not a real wedding (Finnish joke, related to fighting with knives)
<len-dt> from back when _everyone_ carried a blade (or four).
 * len-dt is from good celt blood.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-15
<astraljava> scott-work: Did you want a meeting for the weekend? I'm already having one on Sunday at 1600 UTC. Before that I'll be traveling for a few hours. Everything outside of that works for me.
<holstein> i need to schedule a pow-wow kind of thing
<holstein> just a few of us
<holstein> sundays are never going to work for me anymore i dont think
<holstein> not that you guys need me for heavy lifting.. but i feel like 2 or 3 of us could knock out whatever it is that needs to happen with the site
<astraljava> holstein: Of course we need you. The whole team should get together. We're just slacking off here without an aim now.
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm good for whatever and i have forgotten that sunday is also father's day
<scott-work> astraljava: holstein:  maybe sometime saturday?
<scott-work> i'll make time tonight or any time on saturday
<astraljava> scott-work: Saturday sounds great to me.
<scott-work> astraljava: any particular time is good for you? around normal meeting time perhaps?
<astraljava> scott-work: Can I get back to you on that? I should know in about an hour. :)
<scott-work> sure
<holstein> nah.. i cant do anything til maybe tuesday day, early
<astraljava> ScottL: Well I'm not sure yet, so if you can suggest a few times tomorrow, let's pick one when I'm available. I need to go run a few errands, it seems.
<len-dt> astraljava, I think I said it earlier, but I don't know if Scott got it. I won't be around most of the week end. I'll read the irc logs when I get back.
<astraljava> len-dt: It's  fine, we can also have a meeting during the working week.
<len-dt> if we can find a time when no one is sleeping/working ;-)
<astraljava> Probably can't, but it's not much use either to have just me and Scott in one either. :)
<astraljava> ScottL: So before 1500 UTC I'm really not available, sadly. But from then on, I should be.
<len-dt> Hmm, still no new ISO.
<astraljava> libav-extra isn't building.
<len-dt> always something :)
<astraljava> Sure is. :)
<micahg> astraljava: yeah, I know :),it's on my list for this weekend
<astraljava> micahg: That was just an explanation for Len why the ISO isn't building. :)
<astraljava> I'm not pointing fingers or anything here. :)
<micahg> there are a few reasons, that's on
<micahg> *one
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-16
<len-asea> Cool, there is wifi on the boat these days.
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, I'll check the logs tomorrow and work on the other things, thanks for minding the libav-extra!
<ScottL> micahg, i'm still planning on working on gimp-plugin today, is there a reason i shouldn't use UMT? it looks a lot easier to setup and use than schroot from the 'buildenvironment' page
<ScottL> micahg, maybe i'm just overcomplicating what i am reading
<ScottL> astraljava, it's after 1500 UTC, no? i'll be off and on throughout the day - it's my day to do chores around the house
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, hi. Sorry I'm a bit behind schedule, but am looking at the machine every once in a while. ping me whenever.
<ScottL> astraljava, hehe, i'm here but i'll be going downstairs for about 45 mins :P
<ScottL> hopefully in about three hours i will up here for a continuous amount of time working on setting up a dedicated testing machine
<ScottL> idle question for the day: if people put headless servers in closets, how do they get power to the machine?
<astraljava> ScottL: Alright, let's chat more then.
<ScottL> astraljava, okay :)
<astraljava> ScottL: What kind of a closet? Movable?
<ScottL> when i usually hear about someone setting up a headless server, "they" always seem to mention putting it in a closet
 * ScottL is running his xchat on a lubuntu system and it's not bad at all
<ScottL> this is s 2.6 ghz celeron machine with 2gigs of memory and it's running pretty good
<ScottL> except for flash, it sucks for flash, but that's okay because i don't use it for flash stuff anyways :)
<astraljava> Heh. Yeah, I can't wait for flash to go away for good.
<ailo> ScottL: Did you have a chance to take a look at the staging site yet?
<ScottL> ailo, no yet, but my plan is tonight to look over it all
<ailo> ScottL: I added one pic to the front tabs, the "video" one. It's based on the second Ubuntu Studio wallpaper. Haven'
<ailo> Haven't checked who made it or otherwise, considering copyright..
<ailo> I could even settle with just different colors for each tab, using the same Ubuntu Studio logo background, as in the first front tab.
<ailo> The photography tab is red, but for some reason I was not able to add a custom pic to the last tab
<knome> ailo, hmm.
<ailo> knome: I guess I should really be discussing with you, since you're behind the design
<knome> i should look at why the last featured image isn't working.
<knome> that's weird.
<ailo> knome: If we were to make different colors of the original pic, it would probably be better to do from the original. I'm not a graphics expert, but the quality isn't all that great on the red version
<knome> i can provide you the original too
<knome> what's your email?
<ailo> ailomaa@warpmail.net
<ailo> What did you use to make it?
<knome> inkscape
<knome> sent
<ailo> Nice
<knome> the problem with the non-appearing tab-bg is weird
<knome> actually, awwh, no, it isn't
<knome> it's a stupid mistake
<ailo> It is kind of nice to have different themes for those tabs though. I'm just not the guy to create them. 
<knome> heh :)
<knome> i've pushed new code to the repository and filed an RT ticket
<knome> RT #19936 if you want to follow
<knome> once that's done, the image should appear for the last tab too
<knome> was there something else that doesn't work or that you need from the site?
<knome> :)
<knome> for any content issues, i'm not the right guy ;)
<knome> but for the technical side and the theme, i'm totally the right one
<ailo> That was the only part which didn't work the way it was intended for me. Feels pretty ok, provided the content does its job
<knome> yup, good
<knome> don't hesitate to ask me if there's something that needs tweaking though
<ailo> knome: I'll keep it in mind for the future :)
<knome> good
<ailo> Len-nb: How was the wedding?
<knome> his own? :O
<Len-nb> ailo, great!
<Len-nb> My sons
<knome> ah, congrats anyway :)
<Len-nb> They will make a great couple
<Len-nb> Just killing time and visiting with my mother and sister.
<ailo> No wild wedding party?
<Len-nb> ailo, not yet... later today
<knome> wait, ircing isn't considered wild anymore?
<Len-nb> no blood on the floor
<ScottL> ailo,  i would like all of them to have tabs
<ScottL> errr. i think all the tabs should have picture
<ScottL> s
<ailo> ScottL: I agree. It would be best
<ailo> ScottL: You like doing that kind of stuff? I don't feel I'm up to it really
<Len-nb> Having a web presence would be nice... details later
<ailo> Len-nb: Have lot's of fun. Congrats on the happy union
<ScottL> ailo, i kinda like doing this stuff, i do have a vision for what i wanted, which helps too
<ScottL> ailo, and i'm wrapping up other commitments and finished scratching other itches so i should be more attentive to the website now
<ailo> I get ideas, but to make reality of them, I don't feel like I want to spend the time learning how to do it. And the research, etc
<ailo> But if anyone needs a jingle, I'm your man
<knome> ScottL, you're telling that faux story again?
<knome> ScottL, ;)
<ailo> knome: Maybe you could send your original background to ScottL as well. 
<knome> done
<knome> though i think he has received it at some point
 * Len-nb is out of battery, time to go.
<ailo> A simple way to do it I guess would be to replace the Ubuntu Studio logo with something else, and change the color of the background
<knome> Len-nb, see you
<Len-nb> bye
<ailo> ...for each tab
<knome> yup. i could do that too easily, only if somebody pointed me to something that you want to each tab
<ailo> I was wondering if perhaps there are some "open" clipart that could be used, and in that way minimizing the effort
<knome> i mean, for the "image" part
<knome> i'd imagine you could use some cc-by images from flickr
<knome> the flickr search is somewhat bad for that, but!
<knome> http://compfight.com/
<knome> ^ you can search by license + keyword
<knome> i'd imagine it's safest to use "commercial"
<ailo> I'll leave it up to you guys. But if there's anything to improve on the content, I will of course be available to make changes.
<ailo> ScottL: Or you can just make changes directly
<ScottL> going to go for a bit but i should be back within the hour
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-17
<scott-upstairs> updated and need to restart
<micahg> scott-upstairs: any reason not to? no, it's just overkill for most people ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-10
<nickgermaine> hey, i can't sudo, I get this error in my new user account: nickgermaine is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
<madeinkobaia> Good evening or night to all :P
<zequence> madeinkobaia: hi
<zequence> nickgermaine: add the user to the sudo group
<madeinkobaia> Hi zequence ! You definitively never sleep ; )
<zequence> nickgermaine: but since you can't use sudo, you'll need to do boot into recovery mode
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I just woke up actually
<zequence> I usually wake up at around 4.30 or so now, but I slept a lot yesterday :)
<madeinkobaia> zequence : Really ? witch time is it in Sueden actually ?
<zequence> 3.24 right now. I suppose the same in Belgium?
<madeinkobaia> Yep, I forgot that we're on same hour degre.
<madeinkobaia> What's new last few days ? 
<zequence> madeinkobaia: the guy who just logged out, Nick, is interested in working with php coding
<zequence> so, the WP theme in other words
<madeinkobaia> WP ?
<zequence> also, we have cub (Jimmy SjÃ¶lund on the mail list) who is starting to work on tutorial videos
<zequence> Wordspress
<madeinkobaia> Ok
<zequence> For the tutorial videos, he was wanting a nice intro cover, with place for text about the tutorial
<madeinkobaia> Great, all that sounds good, in the way to enlarge our team.
<zequence> Yes, start to feel a lot more active around here for sure
<zequence> I don't think there's a big hurry with the tutorial video covers. Actually, might be nice to edit them, or re-edit them in time for 14.04
<zequence> Or, we could use the G+ cover somehow
<madeinkobaia> Ok, about "nice intro cover" feel free to send me a detailed request with specifications.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok. I'll talk about that with Jimmy next time I see him
<madeinkobaia> Cool.
<zequence> Now there are two of us from Sweden, if anyone is counting
<zequence> Considering the size difference, we should have something like 20 Americans for each Swede :P
<zequence> Ah, maybe not that much
<zequence> or, maybe yes. Well, anyway
<madeinkobaia> lol, fortunately we don't have quotas to respect :D
<OvenWerk1> For those interested (I think they are both not here right now) I have moved kazam and recorditnow (recordmydesktop for kde) to the video production menu.
<OvenWerk1> gtk-recordmydesktop was already there.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: how many from China do we need then?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Don't know if we can count in all of China. Probably only Hong Kong, considering many variables
<zequence> But finding ones way here is at least being one in 5 million
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerk1 : In witch menu was recorditnow before ?
<zequence> usually any item that is not in our custom menu show up in the "Media Playback" menu
<OvenWerk1> it was in media playback. The change is commited, but not yet released.
<madeinkobaia> zequence, OwenWerk1 : ok.
<madeinkobaia> See you later guys.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: our menu has web browser, filemanager, terminal and gedit at the top. This does not make sense for most other DEs as many of them put "favorites" or recently used apps up there.
<OvenWerk1> Also, we already put an extra pannel at the bottom with at least some of those things there already
<OvenWerk1> Should we keep those things up there?
<OvenWerk1> settings should not be a problem, I can put it there and it just won't show unless xfce is installed.
<zequence> How dows Xubuntu do it?
<zequence> I kind of like having those applications there
<OvenWerk1> OK
<zequence> They don't take up much space anyway
<OvenWerk1> I can probably do that by having the desktop files for them in our settings package
<OvenWerk1> I am looking at simplifying 
<OvenWerk1> so that the menu just works with as many des as I can
<zequence> Ah, I see
<zequence> Well, if there's a conflict, just drop them. 
<OvenWerk1> There is nothing wrong with doing our showcase different from the rest. I'll figure it
<zequence> I'm going to start using virtual installations in a larger extent
<zequence> my server has 8GB of ram, but not that many cores atm
<OvenWerk1> Xubuntu has different ones up there :) and xfce is different again
<OvenWerk1> My server as of yesterday is a pentium 300 with 191 Mb :P
<OvenWerk1> we lost two computers yesterday 10 hours apart.
<zequence> That's really basic hardware
<zequence> Are you getting a new one?
<OvenWerk1> I had a 1.4ghz celeron for the server. I hope to get something better
<OvenWerk1> My wife's netbook bricked as well. She will get a desktop I think.
<OvenWerk1> I had the old MB around and it worked... but boy is it slow. Network traffic is ok, and terminal stuff like this. But accessing my mail or web site is slow.
<zequence> Anyone have a Precise installation who would like to quick test the latest lowlatency kernel in -proposed?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I had a look, and the usb driver patch is in deed in the current 3.8 kernels
<zequence> we should probably start doing audio device testing with each new release of a kernel, to make sure all work: pci, usb and firewire
<zequence> had some real problems getting precise installed
<zequence> finally..
<cub> ??
<cub> What happened?
<zequence> I tried using a mini.iso, the netinstall, a bunch of times
<zequence> two different ISOs
<zequence> on virtual machine, as well as on my laptop
<zequence> wasted a lot of time 
<zequence> finally I installed Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> that worked
<zequence> There was a regression in the latest kernel, and it was really bad timing
<zequence> I was just reorganizing my machines, so I had not tools to build it, or to test it
<zequence> I had to do a quick update for linux-lowlatency on the three releases we have it on
<cub> Aah one of those spending many hours to get back to square one
<zequence> I hate it when one is wanting to solve problem A, but before being able, one has to solve an entirely different and unrelated problem B
<cub> hehe
<zequence> cub: madeinkobaia dropped by during the early morning. He said for us to send specifications on a intro page for the tutorials
<cub> ah cool
<zequence> I'm thinkin all we really need might be the text and the CoF (Circle of Friends)
<cub> Any thoughts? I was thinking quite simple with the logo + ubuntu studio, title of the tutorial, & "This tutorial was made using ubuntu studio xx.xx"
<zequence> I guess the G+ cover could be used. Just move the text
<cub> yeah if one could move it upwards, also make it 1280x720 to fit the 720 format
<cub> I made a mock up on my way to work, need to boot up that laptop though
<zequence> Maybe we should call them "Ubuntu Studio Tutorials"
<cub> makes sense
<cub> what about the questions in the email thread about what apps to do tutorials for? Someone asked about Lightworks I think, or should we aim for "default" apps only?
<cub> imho we should include other stuff as well as long as it has been tried out on ubuntu studio
<zequence> We should only use free software as far possible though
<zequence> Lightworks is not exactly free software
<cub> true
<zequence> Besides, we only need very simple tools
<zequence> record the full desktop, do some simple editing - including zooming
<zequence> not sure if OpenShot already has enough features
<zequence> KdenLive should do the job at least
<zequence> for editing, that is
<zequence> I'd rather go with the simplest tools possible
<cub> yes, but if someone has the time and want to use OpenShot and do a tutorial we could just include it?
<zequence> The simpler the tools, the easier for more people to use them. that's how I'm thinking
<zequence> I've never added subs/text so don't know how that works. Would be great if we could create a template for that, and then it would be as simple as typing in the text for each sequence
<zequence> So, we need a standard for font and fontsize basically
<cub> me neither. I aiming to try one out and see how it's done. I haven't used recordmydesktop before either so
<cub> I noticed that the preferred font for the web page was Droid Sans
<cub> US doesn't include a ftp client in the default installations?
<cub> a gui one I mean
<cub> mock up intro page: http://www.sjolund.se/pix/tutorial-intro-pic.png
<zequence> cub: I just sent madeinkobaia an email. also added the link to your mockup
<zequence> I'm sure he'll come up with something that works well for us
<cub> nice
<cub> I'll continue today and try to work out how to add subtitles. t
<cub> There's an advantage with voice over since you can write and explain waht you are doing quicker than putting everything in writing
<cub> then again, you have a good point about the spoke english
<zequence> cub: I think the visual in itself already tells you most of what you need to do, so subs would just enhance it by the use of correct terms
<zequence> What you can't do with subs is give talks
<zequence> Like, explain the motivation why you are doing something
<cub> zequence, for the tutorials we talked about zooming in on specific details. I can't find a good way to do this. Have you done this before?
<zequence> cub: No, but I'm assuming that it might be a necessary editing feature for many tutorials, when things get really small
<zequence> Another just came to mind - highlighting. Like a square showing which button to press
<cub> exactly. I've seen several that use that feature. But I can't find anything in recordmydesktop to do it and not in Xfce either
<zequence> you don't need to any editing with recordmydesktop
<zequence> just record it
<cub> such highlighting can be done in kdenlive while editing
<zequence> do all the editing either with openshot or kdenlive
<cub> perhaps kdenlive will do the zooming as well
<zequence> I would think so
<cub> I just thought it would be nice to do as much as possible while recording to cut down on editing time
<cub> like a keyboard shortcut to zoom in on the cursor
<zequence> It may be a little hard to do that kind of stuff live
<zequence> and get it right
<zequence> Better just record, and keep things as simple as possible. Simple tutorials. simple instructions. Simple editing
<cub> I'll make a try run during lunch today
<cub> sooo annoying. I was trying to do a recording of setting up LEMP. But apt-get purge or through Synaptic complete removal seems to only work randomly
<cub> so halfway through my tutorial something was already configured in a previous installation
<cub> start over..then mysql didn't ask for root password. start over. Oh the php5-fpm directory was not created
<cub> gaah, my whole lunch went by and still no recording. End of rant.
<zequence> cub: I've recently started using virtual machines for things like this. You can take a snapshot of it, and return to it as many times as you want
<zequence> virtual machines don't work all that well with realtime audio though, and a few other things
<cub> I might have to start doing that
<cub> strange though how a directory for the php.ini had changed since I did my screenshot tutorial on Saturday
<cub> are you using Virtualbox then?
<zequence> I've been so far
<zequence> I'm going to give KVM a try
<zequence> kvm can't start jack, at all it seems
<ttoine> hey !
<zequence> ttoine: Hi
<zequence> How's the progress with the shop?
<ttoine> zequence, I will do it this week, I think
<zequence> ttoine: we have a youtube channel now. Nothing on it yet. cub is working on making tutorials for it (as will hopefully more peopl)
<ttoine> my trial period is ending, and I will move this summer with my family. I will have internet at home again
<zequence> https://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntustudiotube
<ttoine> zequence, I know, I follow the mailing list. I will try to make a demo of mixbus with Kazam
<zequence> ttoine: You are not staying where you are?
<ttoine> zequence, did you get the credentials of twitter?
<zequence> not yet
<zequence> I still need to ask Scott for some other stuff too
<zequence> I will make a list of all of them
<ttoine> zequence, I work in grenoble, and my family was still in Lyon. We were waiting for the end of the trial period to move
<ttoine> zequence, I would like to get the @ubuntustudio account for us. And I need the credentials
<zequence> ttoine: Ah. That's tough. I didn't realize that. 
<cub> I wondered about twitter, is there a twitter channel?
<ttoine> now that we have @ubuntustudio.org emails, it shoudl be easy
<ttoine> cub, ubuntustudio1, I think
<zequence> ttoine: We have the account, but it's Scott who has the details
<zequence> That's the picture I've got anyway
<cub> didn't come up in a search but when I type the address it's there @ubuntustudio
<zequence> https://twitter.com/ubuntustudio
<ttoine> zequence, oh yes, hge did it alreday!
<ttoine> great
<Noskcaj> the xubuntu and studio links in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/#QA_related_teams are broken
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-11
<Noskcaj> what link do you guys want at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam ? the current one is broken
<zequence-s> Noskcaj, Hi. I changed it before
<zequence-s> The name of the team has changed
<Noskcaj> the link when you click on "Ubutnu Studio QA" is still broken
<zequence-s> Ah, I'll fix that
<Noskcaj> ok, ty
<cub> Are there any statistics on how many downloads there have been for the different releases?
<nickgermaine> I was working yesterday, but did an install of wordpress with the US theme.  I, so far, have changed the main font to the official ubuntu font, going to work on the colors today, and the search box on the right, going to spruce that up a bit make it look new and modern
<nickgermaine> http://us.nickgermaine.ca
<cub> Is the font connected to google fonts or what will it show for visitors that don't have the ubuntu font?
<zequence-s> nickgermaine, Nice work. I'd love it if you could change the font sizes as well
<zequence-s> nickgermaine, Specifically make the default text font a bit larter
<zequence-s> larger*
<zequence-s> nickgermaine, As for coloring, please keep in mind that we are working on a unified theming experience, which madeinkobaia is at the lead, of which colors is a major part of
<zequence-s> this means that we will be using a very specific set of colors for all of our artwork
<nickgermaine> Right on, do we have the hex color codes for those?
<nickgermaine> I was just going to make the content font a bit darker as per your previous suggestion
<zequence-s> We don't have a set of colors for that yet, since the work is just beginning really
<zequence-s> nickgermaine, That would be great
<nickgermaine> good stuff
<zequence-s> I think for now, if you do any changes of an artistic kind, don't go too far away from where we are now
<zequence-s> since, as said, we need to establish a goal for that first
<zequence-s> Of course, any ideas are always welcome, just that one should not expect for them to be realized
<cub> in the art branch there are hex for olders versions though
<zequence-s> I think probably everyone would agree that the format for the website is ok, so we should just build off from that
<zequence-s> madeinkobaia, when doing his artwork so far, has been following the already established colors, but the classical set of colors should only to be regarded as inspriration at this point
<zequence-s> OvenWerk1, I just double checked qjackctl behaviour on saucy, and don't understand why you would get a different result
<zequence-s> no matter how qjackctl is configured, if jackd is running when starting qjackctl, qjackctl will already be activated
<OvenWerk1> zequence-s: saucy seems to be fine.
<zequence-s> and, when clicking stop, it appears as if it was stopping jackd, but it isn't
<OvenWerk1> Yes.
<zequence-s> so, why are you thinking this is fine?
<OvenWerk1> Not the not showing stopped but the showing running when started.
<zequence-s> That much was clear all along
<zequence-s> And it has been that way for ages
<zequence-s> perhaps from the start
<zequence-s> the problem is that it appears to be stopping jack, when it isn't
<OvenWerk1> on an older version if started in dbus mode it didn't show a running jackd
<zequence-s> how old?
<zequence-s> I've never seen that myself, namely
<zequence-s> anyway, the situation I described earlier is what is
<OvenWerk1> I would have to do more checking.
<OvenWerk1> Do we still have a problem with qjackctl trying to start dbus when a jack is running?
<zequence-s> It start jackdbus, yes
<zequence-s> but it doesn't start a new instance of a "jackd", just starts the jackdbus process
<OvenWerk1> maybe that is the problem.
<OvenWerk1> when about to call dbus, qjackctl should check to see if jackd is alreay there
<zequence-s> anyway, I already explained the problem quite clearly I think
<OvenWerk1> ok
<cub> zequence, what do you do outside of US? I gathered you live in gothenburg?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-12
<cub> Anyone that have used recordmydesktop frequently?
<zequence> cub: Don't think so. I haven't seen anyone discussing it on here. It happens users talk about it
<zequence> might be people at #opensourcemusicians know something about it
<zequence> cub: What are you finding problematic with it, btw?
<zequence> cub: I'm a musician/composer by education, but right now studying to become a network technician - so currently a student, to answer your question from before
<zequence> cub: How about yourself?
<cub> I've had some trouble with recordmydesktop where it drops parts of the picture and so on, I then read some confusing stuff about how you shouldn't move windows while recording
<cub> and I just wondered if someone had used it before and knew it that was the case. I have found several alternatives and will investigate them. Kdenlive seems to record directly so that would be perfect
<cub> Myself I studied sound engineering in Haparanda, then worked some as audio tech before starting in different IT jobs
<cub> then moved over from server tech to project management, from there to service management where I am today
<cub> I should be doing music and videos on my spare time, but it's hard to find that spare time. :D
<zequence> it can be, yes
<cub> I've always played around with linux installations, then I settled down with Ubuntu and later Ubuntu Studio when I discovered it
<zequence> My first try using Linux was with Red Hat around 2002 or something. But, didn't start really using Linux until around 2008
<cub> I used to run a small web design one-man-firm and might start it up again on the side. Also hoping to learn how to code, starting out with Python
<zequence> good old python
<zequence> cub: But, you don't do a lot of php?
<cub> I went to linux in 2004 to deal with some online gaming issues..I had to get away from Counter Strike and hence, no windows allowed.
<zequence> hehe
<cub> I have done some php, but only to fix certain things I wanted to change in wordpress or phpbb sites
<cub> never sat down to properly learn php
<zequence> how about other languages?
<cub> 10 print "Jimmy", 20 goto 10
<cub> I never had the patience to learn any language expect BASIC in the 80s
<zequence> I'm self taught in a bunch of languages, but have only used python for anything real so far
<zequence> I do a bit of python/GTK
<cub> aha
<zequence> I know enough about programming languages that I could do C, or C++ too
<cub> a friend working at youtube recommended python to start out with to me
<zequence> I think any language will do, if you just find a use for it
<zequence> what really teaches you is just doing it
<zequence> I learnt a lot by doing a lot of pure data
<zequence> it's not like a written language, but you learn how to thing in terms of programming
<cub> yes, I have some ideas of apps I want to build but have no clue on how to do it.
<zequence> start out with something that is similar, and start changing it
<cub> exactly
<zequence> well, if it's not too advanced
<cub> I would like to port Freemind to python
<cub> and then make an offline Kanban tool
<cub> buuut that's for later.
<cub> so, why ubuntu studio? I think I saw somewhere that your main pc was running something else?
<zequence> I use Debian as my main OS
<zequence> I'm recently also a member of the Debian Multimedia Team, who packages just about everything we use in UBuntu Studio
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio is probably the most widely used, multimedia based OS. It's the perfect first OS for someone wanting to use Linux for multimedia content creation
<zequence> It's also a great place from where to have influence on the Linux multimedia community, or perhaps mostly, the Linux audio community
<cub> Do you have any statistics on how many users or downloads there are?
<zequence> I don't
<zequence> Been meaning to get some data from Ubuntu people
<zequence> on how much people download our ISOs
<zequence> we're definatly the least used among the other established flavors
<zequence> definitely*
<cub> It's hard though. Myself have downloaded several ISOs many times and then one might do one download and several installations
<zequence> the other Ubuntu flavors, that is
<zequence> you can compare our downloads with other flavors though
<zequence> There is some people wanting to put together something similar to Ubuntu Studio meta packages in Debian now
<zequence> But, apart from that, what's great about Ubuntu Studio is that it's focused
<zequence> like a product
<zequence> Debian is more of a library of applications
<cub> I think KXStudio is moving over to Debian as well
<zequence> falkx has been talking about it
<zequence> mostly because of recent animosity against Canonical
<cub> yup
<zequence> but, that IMO is not something that has any effect on how KXstudio is distributed
<cub> Who do you mena?
<cub> mean
<zequence> I mean, what Canonical does has no effect on KXStudio
<cub> ah
<zequence> as long as we, the community have the freedom to do our work, the Ubuntu flavor, which is of course designed by Canonical, can be regarded just like any flavor
<zequence> KXStudio is not a big community project. It's mostly falktx, and he
<zequence> he's never been interested in making changed in Ubuntu repos
<zequence> or Debian repos
<cub> Yes, that's what kept me off using some other projects. There was only one guy doing everything
<cub> so what happens when they don't have the time or doesn't feel like moving things forward anymore
<zequence> There are some advantages to KXStudio, and one of them is the inclusion of applications with hazy licenses
<zequence> something that doesn't happen easily on Ubuntu
<zequence> or Debian
<zequence> that would be a certain amount of packages, that one person could just maintain on a PPA
<zequence> then there's updates to older releases
<zequence> finally, there are cases where KXStudio applications are rebuilt to overcome some problem, a bug. 
<zequence> packaging bugs are not reported upstream to Debian or Ubuntu
<zequence> application bugs are of course reported to the application developer, and those fixes also end up in Debian and Ubuntu over time
<cub> so they might not get fixed unless someone else reports it
<zequence> just not in the flash of a moment
<zequence> falktx is not concerned with co-operating with Debian and Ubuntud devs. Only application devs. 
<zequence> I'd like for fixes to end up in Debian, Ubuntu and all of their derivatives
<zequence> I'd like for the user being able to do the same thing on any Debian derived distro without too much work, especially Debian
<zequence> but, also Ubuntu, and therefore Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> If we make Ubuntu Studio work really well for multimedia content creation, that will of course make people want to use it
<zequence> But, why stop there?
<cub> World domination?
<zequence> lol
<zequence> It makes sense to fix things upstream, so that you don't need to do it locally yourself
<cub> yes, since it kind of depends on upstream anyway
<DarkEra> good afternoon guys
<zequence> DarkEra: hi
<DarkEra> heya zequence :)
<DarkEra> i love 13.04. It's a real pleasure to work with it. Having two track in the work at the moment
<DarkEra> track/tracks
<cub> Hiya
<cub> DarkEra, audio recordings?
<DarkEra> cub, hi
<DarkEra> yes, audio recordings
<cub> anything available online? I always enjoy checking out new stuff
<DarkEra> cub, i have some older tracks online that i made years ago on a playstation one and 2, plus a rough demo track of the new one and a tomb raider theme i made on a mac. The second track i'm working on at the moment i keep a secret until it's finished
<DarkEra> cub, here's a link to my blog: http://mathiusquest.blogspot.com
<cub> cool
<DarkEra> my other tracks can be found on soundcloud
<NickG> soundcloud = awesome
<NickG> whats your soundcloud url?
<DarkEra> NickG, hold on :)
<NickG> good stuff
<DarkEra> https://soundcloud.com/mathius-quest
<DarkEra> not everyone likes the music but hey, it's all a matter of taste
<DarkEra> what i'm working on now will be more Enigmatic style
<NickG> I work on hip hop music
<DarkEra> cool :)
<NickG> https://soundcloud.com/nick-germaine/sickness-feat-dien2live
<NickG> one of my new ones.  A lot of people has a huge misconception about hip hop music.  A lot think it's all about guns, drugs and that kinda stuff.  I just use it as an art form to convey my thoughts
<DarkEra> listening to it now
<NickG> good stuff
<NickG> that one was actually made in LMMS
<NickG> and Ardour
<DarkEra> wow, very cool! I like it
<NickG> thank you
<DarkEra> sorry for the delay, had a phonecall
<DarkEra> NickG, following you and added a bookmark. Listening to the other tracks at the moment
<zequence> Wish I could rap
<zequence> my mouth is too slow
<DarkEra> same here
<zequence> Maybe slow doomy rap would work?
<DarkEra> gotta say, he's got talent for sure
<zequence> It sounds right
<DarkEra> zequence, lol at slow doomy rap :D
<zequence> Frankenstein rap
<DarkEra> hahaha
<zequence> NickG: Not bad at all. The voice is great, but maybe the music could be fattened up a bit?
<zequence> I don't have much up, but this is something I did with puredata. the music is generated through pure data programming http://soundcloud.com/zequence/autopoiesis-0000001
<zequence> I did post processing to the file, so not all done in programming, but you could do it all with the program too
<DarkEra> cool stuff!
<DarkEra> hmmm... looks like NickG is lost in a musical universe
<DarkEra> i will be for sure tonight when i continue to work on my track
<NickG> hah I am busy with school, we homeschool our children
<NickG> I have them listening to classical music, one writing a book report and the other practicing writing.
<zequence> NickG: Why do you homeschool them?
<NickG> brb
<zequence> Can't do that around here. We have laws that enforces kids to go to school
<NickG> We have laws too.  But none specifically stating children to attend public school.
<NickG> We homeschool a few reasons.  First, you are in complete control of what they learn.  Second, you are in complete control of how they learn.  By homeschooling, we are two teachers with two students, as opposed to 1 teacher with 30 students.  It provides more 1-on-1 time and individualized learning.  In public school, they teach something one way and if you don't get it, too bad.  We have the ability to teach in different ways
<NickG> I was homeschooled as well.  I was allowed to choose what I learn, so I began HTML and CSS programming at 15.  I began making music at 14, and built my first computer at 14 as well.  
<zequence> I wouldn't say school was my major source of education on some fields
<zequence> but, it's a lot more than just education
<zequence> it has a social aspect as well
<NickG> Yeah, but I still had my friends from before I was homeschooled, and there are other social events.
<zequence> as long as the kids get what they need, I guess
<NickG> A lot of people associate school with learning, and in turn associate the ending of high school with the ending of the need to learn.  And that's part of the problem with society.
<NickG> I got the meta fields under each post changed darker as well.  I think it's too dark, but let me know what you think http://us.nickgermaine.ca
<zequence> NickG: a bit too dark yes. I see you made the text in the front tabs larger. Looks ok. I'd still like the other text to be a little larger too
<zequence> I also don't really like how the different header sizes are
<zequence> h1, h2, h3, etc
<zequence> NickG: The size on this page, directly under "Community" looks right to me
<zequence> smaller sized are better suited for news articles, etc
<zequence> well, not for our "news", but if you know what I mean
<zequence> sizes*
<DarkEra> heya madeinkobaia :)
<DarkEra> how are you buddy?
<madeinkobaia> Hey DarkEra ! I am great !
<madeinkobaia> And you ?
<DarkEra> good to 'hear'
<DarkEra> i'm doing fine, thanks
<madeinkobaia> Great, what's new ?
<madeinkobaia> DarkEra : ^ ;)
<DarkEra> madeinkobaia, working on another track in the nighttime. Daytime is for my family :)
<madeinkobaia> Cool, thats a good planning.
<NickG> I haven't played around with the header sizes, but I'll look at them and make appropriate changes.
<NickG> Not sure if it might be a browser thing, I'm on Firefox, but the fonts on the community page look exactly like the font sizes for content everywhere else on the site.
<cub> zequence, when you have used Virtualbox, have you set the guests to be a specific size?
<cub> screen resolution wise I mean. I would like my vbox to be exactly 1280x720, but it disagrees with me
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-13
<zequence> cub: screen resolution depends on if you installed the guest utils or not
<zequence> cub: usually, resizing the window will change the resolution automatically, if you have guest utilities 
<cub> I did. Before that it was only 1024x768
<cub> according to the manual you can lock the screen size to a specific size, but when I do it locks to another size.
<cub> I made a thread on ubuntuforums
<zequence> haven't messed with that myself
<zequence> cub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFcErztgeA&feature=youtu.be
<zequence> a bit advanced though
<cub> 18 minutes..:D 
<zequence> made me realize we should have more than one page for the intro
<zequence> one for the brand, and another for the tutorial name
<cub> let me grab my lunch and watch it.
<zequence> There's no point in us spending too much time with this right now
<zequence> but, for 14.04, it might be nice to do something a bit nicer
<zequence> like animated branding, and so forth
<zequence> we need a new standard for our branding first
<zequence> madeinkobaia is working on something for this right now, so he should have something ready soon
<cub> ok
<cub> yeah, would be cool. Seems like a bit of work to get there though.
<cub> after watching a couple of gnome3design videos I'm even more reluctant to background music in tutorials. 
<zequence> contract signed. I'm tutoring Linux for two weeks (26,27)
<cub> sweet
<cub> where?
<zequence> coincidentally, I'm currently reading for the Linux+ certificate, so I might actually know what I'm talking about
<zequence> It's an unemployment thing
<cub> aha
<zequence> it-lyftet
<zequence> I do one week full time x two places
<cub> who is the audience? Beginners?
<zequence> it's a little mixed
<zequence> not many who have formal education
<zequence> not in IT anyhow
<zequence> a lot of interest though, so that's good
<zequence> they had to increase with two places in the course room
<zequence> at site nr.1
<cub> might look into the links for Inkscape tutorials later. I need to learn how to do icons. I want to create a Solarized theme for xfce with flat icons
<cub> @it-lyftet.se that is
<zequence> http://itlyftet.se/
<zequence> I have a subdomain, which is rubbish right now, but will be used for the course http://linux.itlyftet.se/
<zequence> I'd love to learn how to do that stuff too
<zequence> I've done a few tutorials for different graphics applications
<zequence> no time..
<zequence> I think in july I might have more time for Ubuntu Studio. I'm not really doing much concretely right now myself
<cub> time is always hard.
<zequence> the good thing about having 5 days alone with a room full of people is that you get a long time to convince them why they should use Linux 
<cub> hehe
<cub> is it mandatory or have they chosen to attend themselves?
<zequence> it's voluntary
<zequence> there are different courses there. usually they have one class a week
<zequence> no one else will be working there when I'm there
<cub> lazy bastards ;)
<zequence> I'll be doing classes from 9.30-12.00, and then walking around helping people the rest of the time
<zequence> they are required to do work in between classes of course
<zequence> but, sure. they aren't getting any diplomas or certificates, so there's really not a huge motivator for working hard
<cub> I'm not so sure. they have chosen themselves to be there so learning is probably key
<zequence> they are required to go there, even though they are able to choose where they go
<cub> I went to folkhÃ¶gskola where you don't get any grades or diploma, learnt more than in any other school since we were all very motivated just to learn the stuff we had chosen ourselves
<zequence> if you've been unemployed for a certain amount of time, you have to do some sort of activity
<cub> righ
<cub> t
<zequence> most people don't have that inner drive. they need a carrot
<zequence> being lazy is actually a pretty good thing from certain aspects
<cub> Bill Gates thought so
<zequence> get as much done using the least amount of energy
<cub> something along the line of "lazy programmers are great because they will always find the easiest way to do things"
<cub> exactly
<cub> time to go to dog school.
<zequence> you dog you..
<cub> Ok, seems I "solved" my trouble with recordmydesktop and Virtualbox. I had issues that the windows in the Vbox didn't show properly
<cub> So instead doing the vbox full screen and capture from within the vbox, if I instead connect my external monitor and manually set the vbox to be 1280x720
<cub> and the start recordmydesktop on the host and point it to record only the part of the screen where the vbox is. Voila. Seems to work.
<cub> Could be that my issues before was only a temporary glitch but this seems to work so.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-14
<OvenWerks> zequence: I was able to get our menu to work in lxde. It appears they don't recognise the Exclude element :P  Also I found out that while both xfce and KDE accept a bollian value of YES or NO, Lxde must have true or false (which is actually correct)
<OvenWerks> I will up grade my package and try it against all the DEs I can.
<OvenWerks> I can't do gnome shell testing till I get my wife another computer... But I will test xfce, lxde, and KDE.
<OvenWerks> I will try installing Mint which has cinnamon and Mate.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have been thinking about grub configs. I am thinking that the way grub should be set up is that any partition that is running should update grub in the same way.
<OvenWerks> That is, assuming partitions sda5, sda6 and sda7 all have a different OS. If a new kernel is installed, grub will change whatever that new kernel is to the new default at the top of the grub menu.
<OvenWerks> It may be better for the upgrade/update to always put the latest kernel of sda5 first, then sda6 and sda7 so that they are always in the same order.
<OvenWerks> Or it may be better to ask the user which OS is the master OS and run the grub config from that partition. (assuming it is not a windows partition :)
<OvenWerks> The time to ask the user is at install time, with an explanation of what works or doesn't
<OvenWerks> The stuff about grub is just random thoughts... so don't take it too seriously.
<OvenWerks> If I have time, I will try to set a grub config up that does such a thing.
 * OvenWerks is getting tired of seeing his grub menu with three or four entries that all look the same and may change meaning from day to day.
<smartboyhw> Hey guys, I'm back!!!
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Why the nick change?
<OvenWerks> hey smartboyhw how it goes?
<OvenWerks> I am using screen and irssi
<OvenWerks> There is already a "Len" around here so...
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Where's len-dt or len-1304
<smartboyhw> ?
<smartboyhw> Len-nb even
<OvenWerks> I am not using xchat on a machine any more
<OvenWerks> I am ssh into my server and running irssi in a screen session.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Oh. BTW since you are familiar with desktops, can you try to answer [[_]'s question in user chan? 
<OvenWerks> I can detach from it in one place a reattach in another
<smartboyhw> Goodâ¦
<smartboyhw> Any Ubuntu Studio items I have been missing throughout my exam leave?
<OvenWerks> I actually have my own ppa... it has a version of ubuntustudio-menu on it
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Good;)
<OvenWerks> You have probably see the emails about DEs
<OvenWerks> I just today got our menu to work well on lubuntu
<smartboyhw> Hurray!!!
<OvenWerks> Now I have to remake the package and test it on everything else :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you have multiple OSs installed in paralelell, you should only have one GRUB
<zequence> and it can only be updated from the OS that had it originally installed
<zequence> at least in the MBR
<zequence> nice to hear about your progression with the menu
<zequence> it's really becoming a generic tool
<OvenWerks> zequence: I understand I can work around the way grub is set up... the kernel installer doesn't seem to understand though. I guess I should have set each new partition to install grub in it's own boot record. then update from my master partition. The problem is that there is only one grub partition, but many partitions that think they own it.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I'll stop complaining... better stuff to do. 
<OvenWerks> Bed time anyway.
<zequence> it would be nice to be able to not install GRUB at all
<zequence> woops, we better get in Ardour3 before june 20th
<zequence> - debian import freeze
<smartboyhw> zequence: ping
<zequence> hello smartboyhw. All done with your exams now?
<smartboyhw> zequence: Yep.
<zequence> I'm sure you did well
<smartboyhw> zequence: Someâ¦
<zequence> smartboyhw: you just pinged me to say hello? :)
<smartboyhw> zequence: Not just that. For the DEs, I am even thinking of mininasing metas.
<smartboyhw> We can just install ubuntustudio-audio and such (except -desktop) + the DE's -minimal packageâ¦
<smartboyhw> Make a program to do precisely thatâ¦
<zequence> if you're thinking about ubuntu-minimal, that is the base for the entire Ubuntu OS
<smartboyhw> There's lubuntu-minimal or kubuntu-minimal I think
<smartboyhw> (at least Lubuntu has)
<zequence> well, it's just a meta package for the core system components that you need for the OS
<zequence> if you want to just have a kernel and the GNU tools, that is all you need
<zequence> no DE involved
<smartboyhw> zequence: No no lubuntu-minimal means the DE (without the apps)
<zequence> ah, ok. Well, they have their own setup for that
<zequence> We're suposed to make ubiquity have some options for us during install
<zequence> so that the user can decide to not install some of the metas
<smartboyhw> Yep
<zequence> or even none of them
<zequence> but we don't need a ubuntustudio-minimal package for that
<zequence> it's just add some code to the installer
<cub> About Ardour3, if it's included in Debian, will they use the source code and package it? Since Ardour have started to charge for it?
<zequence> I'm supposed to do that, but if someone else wants to take shot, be my guest
<smartboyhw> zequence: No no no...
<zequence> cub: ardour3 is not released yet for Debian. There's just a git source repo set up for it, and it's currently not up to date
<zequence> someone will need to update it and prepare it for release in Debian
<smartboyhw> I mean when we make the LXDE meta in ubiquity, we only need to include lubuntu-minimal + ubuntustudio-(all except desktop)
<zequence> then, we will need to sync it from there
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ah, ok
<zequence> smartboyhw: It would be good if we could just use the existing DE metas for Lubuntu, Kubuntu, etc, and add only our menu, workflows and artwork
<zequence> but, the problem is, we need to have our settings by default
<zequence> so, probably we need our own session for those
<smartboyhw> zequence: Oh yeahâ¦
<zequence> so, not sure which is the best way. Either we copy their stuff into new metas of our own, or we depend on theirs and find a way to override their default settings
<zequence> I'm currently having a look at ardour3
<smartboyhw> zequence: Great. How about -rt?
<smartboyhw> linux-rt that is
<zequence> I haven't done any work on -rt at all yet
<zequence> I'm kind of waiting until after 13.10 with that
<smartboyhw> ok
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra
<DarkEra> heya smartboyhw :)
<DarkEra> how are you doing?
<smartboyhw> good
<DarkEra> ;)
<cub> zequence, do you know if madeinkobaia is doing a banner for the Youtube channel as well?
<smartboyhw> cub: A (late) welcome to the Ubuntu Studio team;)
<zequence> cub: Yes, he's working on it
<cub> thanks, I suppose I'm just a hang around still ;)
<cub> great, the G+ banner got a bit messed up by the youtube links and icons
<smartboyhw> Uh oh
<zequence> the youtube banner is a litte special. It has three modes: TV, desktop and mobile
<zequence> TV is full size, just like G+
<zequence> desktop and mobile are both cropped in different ways
<zequence> I just added the existing G+ banner for the time being. it was impossible to make the text fit better, as the banner needs to be specifically designed for youtube
<cub> yes why make it simple to the users. :D
<cub> especially since youtube and g+ should be able to integrate
<zequence> probably better to use the youtube banner for everything else
<cub> if that's possible. Every site seems to have different settings so one might end up doing one banner for each anyway
<cub> but if there is a template it should be quick to make a new one for the next one, like Twitter
<smartboyhw> zequence: To confirm, we aren't doing ANY alphas right? (Or rather, at least Alpha 1)
<smartboyhw> An alpha-1 opt-in e-mail will be sent by skaet soon...
<zequence> smartboyhw: no Alphas
<smartboyhw> zequence: :)
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Can you confirm that the ubuntustudio bits in the latest email of ubuntu-devel correct?
<smartboyhw_> Em, the bits are mostly (or fully) my wordingâ¦
<zequence> smartboyhw_: what email is that?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: which email are you referring to?
<smartboyhw_> zequence: non-Unity flavours and MIR
<zequence> smartboyhw_: what about it
<smartboyhw_> zequence: There are the Studio bits (including multiple DEs), and I want to ask you if I said anything wrongâ¦
<zequence> smartboyhw_: non Ubuntu developers are not able to post to that list. a moderator has to let the post through
<zequence> if you posted, it was not let through yet
<smartboyhw_> zequence: Nah, the original one
<smartboyhw_> Posted by Jonathan Riddell
<zequence> yes, it's correct
<smartboyhw_> zequence: great;)
<zequence> also, we have the least interest in that particular discussion, or at least we who are here
<zequence> as none of us are involved in DE development
<zequence> we just use DEs that already exist
<smartboyhw_> yep:P
<zequence> latest updates to ardour3 in debian git repo build on saucy. the package seems to only be short of a desktop file
<zequence> builds*
<OvenWerks> zequence: great to hear. Does that mean we can use them?
<OvenWerks> zequence: Installing Mint. It is the eaiest way to test menus on cinnamon and Mate.
<OvenWerks> Mint seems to be a Ubuntu derivitave using the same repos and basic Ubuntu stuff... including the installer.
<holstein> they have quite a few special things though
<holstein> the upgrader is quite nice
<holstein> rates upgrades, and lets you, as an admin, say what a user can upgrade
<OvenWerks> My first thing will to be able to install... 
<OvenWerks> I may have a proken image :P
<holstein> say, kernel is level5, but browser is level2.. you could give you mom for example level 2 upgrade access
<holstein> its a nice idea i cant believe more distros dont use
<holstein> especially since the upgrader in *every* os is pretty much crap
<OvenWerks> Ya.
<OvenWerks> SQUASHFS error:  :(  Reboot and test the image.
<OvenWerks> Back later
<OvenWerks> Ya, bad image. Re download.
<holstein> well, at least you know now
<OvenWerks> That is what I get for using chromium to downlaod
<OvenWerks> I am told we will have to take steps to get something else as that will be the ubuntu default.
<holstein> eh.. im ok with it
<holstein> i use chrome all the time anyway
<holstein> its a lot like chromium, except that it works..
<OvenWerks> I guess we can always blacklist and add FF if we want.
<holstein> firefox is getting awesome again.. i dont get it
<holstein> back when folks were saying 'we should switch to chromium', when ff was dog slow.. that would have been a nice time to switch
<OvenWerks> I expedt it has something to do with branding and the licencing of that.
<OvenWerks> FF basically has something about how it is started and what the starting screen is.
<OvenWerks> changing that to a Ubuntu screen is not allowed.
<holstein> wow
<holstein> seems like an ok deal
<holstein> i mean, its not like many folks are going to say "whats this mozilla thing?"
<OvenWerks> The user can change it after, but FF wants it a certain way for first use.
<OvenWerks> I think Ubuntu wants something they can brand and have their home page come up from day one.
<holstein> interesting
<OvenWerks> Concidering where vanilla is going, look and feel are very important.
<OvenWerks> I think a uniffied look rather than a mix of stuff is what they are looking for.
<OvenWerks> They want to compete with win/ipod/Android
<OvenWerks> It has to be polished looking and feeling. It has to feel finshed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-15
<OvenWerks> Mint seems to be installing for me this time.
<OvenWerks> With Cinnamon I have to switch the settings manager to "Advanced" just so I can have focus follows mind.... err mouse.
<OvenWerks> Cinnamon has three modes. 3D, which I have never seen :) 2D(3d with software rendering) very slow... like unity on this machine, so prolly the same thing.
<OvenWerks> The third mode is "fallback" mode. Which works best for me, but lots of things don't seem to work in the pannel.
<OvenWerks> LinuxMint also has the mate DE which I tried. It works ok.
<OvenWerks> None of the menu config files are XDG compliant (no suprise)
<OvenWerks> Mate seems to ignore any merge files... even when I fix the config file.
<OvenWerks> Cinnamon works if I fix the config file, but does not show submenus.
<OvenWerks> Fallback mode works very well with a fixed config menu.
<OvenWerks> I am thinking these are based on gnome shell 3 but not the latest one which of coarse no fallback mode. as I found with ubuntu gnome.
<smartboyhw> zequence, seems like so many flavours are doing both alphas this cycle.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Well, perhaps they have a good reason to do that
<zequence> I don't see any good reason for us to do that
<smartboyhw> Yep, we only need betas.
<smartboyhw> (Or single beta?)
<zequence> two betas is probably better
<zequence> 1st beta is feature freeze
<smartboyhw> yep
<zequence> between betas we fix all bugs
<zequence> 2nd beta could be regarded as release candidate
<zequence> gives us enough time
<smartboyhw> zequence: Sure;)
<smartboyhw> I'm thinking though: Would it be difficult to test after we made multiple DEs?
<zequence> well, ardour3 is more or less ready to be released. trying to get some help with that from pkg-multimedia team members
<zequence> so, hopefully we'll have it within a week or two
<zequence> it also seems like we'll be going forward with splitting up jackd and jackdbus
<zequence> also sorting out the dev files
<smartboyhw> What did I miss?
<zequence> smartboyhw: jackd2 is going to be repackaged in Debian
<smartboyhw> yeah
<smartboyhw> *yay
<zequence> http://worldofgnome.org/how-to-create-a-lightweight-custom-gnome-shell-fork/
<OvenWerks> zequence: all of that sounds good.
<OvenWerks> I am hoping to have the new menus ready as well
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I think menus are one of the first steps for using other DEs
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks:  Sure
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I have seen that just having a good menu install in lubuntu or kubuntu really changes the feel of that DE. Add the kernel and one of our metas and it is ready to go
<OvenWerks> A utility to fix permisions and let the user choose what to install would finish it quite nicely.
<zequence> I think our users will highly appreciate the menu working on other DEs
<OvenWerks> I have had good comments so far.
<zequence> Well, I'm hoping we can straighten out the premission problem by changing it
<OvenWerks> One of the problems I am seeing is that the freedesktop template is made in such a way that it is difficult to program correctly and so noone does.
<zequence> I'll soon propose a new group to be used, instead of audio group
<OvenWerks> Will there be a problem with getting that new group to be default for users?
<zequence> but, what we won't have is a really nice and versitile volume applet/mixer
<zequence> no, I don't think so. but using audio group by default on other flavors is not going to be allowed
<OvenWerks> qamixer looks nice... but no one has kept it up.
<zequence> since it's used for other stuff already
<OvenWerks> Ya makes sense.
<zequence> would be great to have a volume applet that was jack aware as well, with at least start/stop and settings functionality
<OvenWerks> qamixer has profiles. So it could be made to work with any card.
<OvenWerks> That is a starting point. That IMO is one of the biggest problems with the alsa mixers is that the user has a pile of controls but the names make no sense.
<zequence> !info
<zequence> !info ardour
<ubottu> ardour (source: ardour): digital audio workstation (graphical gtk2 interface). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.8.14-2 (raring), package size 5223 kB, installed size 15507 kB
<OvenWerks> zequence: am I to take it ardour will just become version 3.*? rather than two versions ardour?
<OvenWerks> Probably the best way.
<OvenWerks> If a user _has_ to have ardour2, they can always get it from ardour.
<OvenWerks> Or try forcing an older version to load with synaptic.
<zequence> OvenWerks: until now, ardour has been packaged as ardour3
<zequence> I mean, ardour3 has been packaged as ardour3, not as a replacement for ardour2
<zequence> I was just trying out that command earlier
<OvenWerks> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-16
<smartboyhw> zequence, I want to post http://paste.ubuntu.com/5770487/ in my blog, so please review it:P
<zequence> is mate available for Ubuntu?
<zequence> I've never checked
<smartboyhw> zequence, dunno:P But OvenWerks said that the menu just can't fit in there...
<zequence> He might have been testing Mint
<smartboyhw> Yeah though
<zequence> We aren't designing an application to choose between DEs
<zequence> it would just be an addition to the ubiquity installer (haven't yet checked how that works, but should be rather straight forward)
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<smartboyhw> Our plan is to make an extension in ubiquity where users can choose whatever DE they want to use. Our live ISO will still include Xfce as the default desktop (and probably we will install it along with the user's DE of choice alongside so there's a backup solution), but we will give the users a convenient choice for using KDE or Unity.
<smartboyhw> Is that OK?
<zequence> sure
<smartboyhw> zequence, can I post it now?
<zequence> I'd be bloggin about this myself, or announcing our plans on Ubuntu Studio news, but haven't since very little is decided yet
<zequence> I can't spot any other errors right now
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK. Posting it now...
<zequence> In general terms, one could say, we're exploring the way we could support multiple DEs
<OvenWerks> zequence: (and anyone else) I would suggest that we only suport a DE if there is at least one person who is willing to support/keep up to date/test that DE.
<OvenWerks> XFCE should remain the supported by the whole team.
<OvenWerks> but other DEs should have one person each to keep them up (at least)
 * smartboyhw keeps KDE since he is a Kubuntu member 
<smartboyhw> And a packager too (now bumbling about some stupid Krita code)
<OvenWerks> By DEs, I mean DE metas we ship as opposed DEs we expect people to install our metas into.
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: our menu package just works with KDE. KDE is the only DE that has gotten it right
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, \o/
<OvenWerks> All of the other DEs do the menu merging at the wrong time.
 * OvenWerks is just playing with lubuntu right now.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence do you think it will take a much longer time to test DE testcases before milestone releases?
<OvenWerks> Another boot...
<smartboyhw> Maybe let me try to do some ISo testing now...
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I am thinking that for other DEs it would be nice to come up with an icon/logo that is half of the DE logo and half ours
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, !?
<smartboyhw> We are making another distribution then if so
<OvenWerks> Like the KDE logo is round and ours is round... so take half of each.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, sure but GNOME?
<smartboyhw> Half-foot!?
<smartboyhw> Unity even?
<OvenWerks> cool
 * smartboyhw doesn't even think that Unity has a logo, IIRC.
<OvenWerks> It just uses the ubuntu cof
<OvenWerks> Ya and which end of the mouse do we use?
<smartboyhw> ?!
<OvenWerks> maybe that is not such a great idea
<OvenWerks> The mouse is xubuntu
<smartboyhw> Yeah...
<smartboyhw> Hmm, the -minimal thing doesn't exist for Kubuntu...
<OvenWerks> Shouldn't be to hard to make one though
<OvenWerks> The big thing would be to remove libre office
<smartboyhw> Maybe we actually have..
<OvenWerks> Studio already ships a lot of the KDE DE from pulling in kdenlive
 * smartboyhw is asking in #kubuntu-devel
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, that's true.
 * OvenWerks will probably end up running KDE on his personal machine.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, we have kde-base for minimal.
<smartboyhw> ;)
<OvenWerks> Cool. Is that one of the seeds?
<smartboyhw> Or kde-standards
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, not exactly
<OvenWerks> meta then.
<OvenWerks> All you need is the debian/control file
<OvenWerks> The list of depends will be in there
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, the source package is meta-kde.
<smartboyhw> I think kde-standard should be good enough
<OvenWerks> Should be easy to drop the stuff into a seed... or just make that package the whole seed :)
<OvenWerks> What happens if you install that meta on top of Studio?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, it gets you a very basic desktop with the kde *utilities* only.
<smartboyhw> It doesn't include apps like krita or calligra or kdenlive
<smartboyhw> Basically, a very bare KDE
<OvenWerks> That shouldn't matter, because we ship all that stuff anyway
<OvenWerks> Remember that the whole xfce stuff is already installed...
<smartboyhw> Yeah
<OvenWerks> Time to do bug reports :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<OvenWerks> lubuntu bug done... now for lxlauncher and lxmenu-data
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, where's the bug?
 * smartboyhw would be willing to tell the Lubuntu people
<OvenWerks> Bug #1191527
<ubottu> bug 1191527 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Menu config files merge menus from standard locations too soon so defaults override merges." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191527
<zequence> OvenWerks: artwork would fall into madeinkobaias department, so any ideas should be passed along to him
<zequence> Until said otherwise, our XFCE based desktop is default
<zequence> right now, we have nothing else. We're just looking at the possibilities, so nothing to really make decisions on, I think
<OvenWerks> next time he is on I will ask. We have to look at manpower first of course and as you say xfce comes first
<zequence> Depends very much on how we enable the other DEs
<zequence> might be as simple as running a script to update all of them for each new release
<OvenWerks> ls
<OvenWerks> oops wrong window
<OvenWerks> could be.
<OvenWerks> The extra artwork would take more time though
<OvenWerks> micahg: I have been redoing ubuntustudio-menu from the ground up. I have been uploading snapshots to my own ppa for testing. With BZR I have been doing lots of commits.
<OvenWerks> I can upload all of the commits or I can rebranch and just move all of the changes in in one lump as a starting point.
<OvenWerks> which is better?
<OvenWerks> What the branch looks like is https://code.launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+junk/ubuntustudio-menu
<micahg> OvenWerks: you can merge the whole branch in if you like, it'll show up as one commit in the main listing, but you can drill down into the merged commits as well
<zequence> micahg: we really need to get ubuntustudio-controls out of the repo
<zequence> I always forget about it
<zequence> it hasn't been doing anything useful I think for 3 years or so :P
<zequence> well, maybe for firewire a little less than that
<micahg> zequence: file a removal request and subscribe sponsors or ping me
<zequence> micahg: Is that like a bug?
<micahg> yes
<zequence> ok, thanks
<madeinkobaia> Hi all, for those who are concerned, I actually testing a new banner for our social sites. You can have a live preview of the actual project banner on my g+ page : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts any feedbacks are welcome.
<OvenWerks> micahg: Thank you. It is not quite ready yet... I keep finding things I don't like. 
<OvenWerks> zequence: Just found out how much you can put into a video machine: http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Maximus.cfm Thats 5 GPUs in one machine. Oh and I think the two cpus are 8 cores a piece. These guys seem to have some of the lowest latency MB around (according to the RT test site). I may buy one of the lower priced ones when I have the resources to upgrade.
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, use it for folding
<OvenWerks> Folding?
<OvenWerks> From what I read one of the GPUs is the actual video output and the other four are extra rendering processors
<OvenWerks> It is more than I want/need.
<OvenWerks> I will be looking for something with Intel graphics so I can use free drivers.
<OvenWerks> I know they are not "the best", but better than anything I have and more than I need for my uses.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-09
<OvenWerks> holstein: does this look useful? I have yet to package it: http://www.ovenwerks.net/software/index.html
<OvenWerks> written in pyqt4
<OvenWerks> (may have problems with a gtk2 systray, but works fine with a gtk3 systray)
<OvenWerks> zequence: lets not add Mixxx to our apps. It seems to send a pasuspend if it needs to or not. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mixxx/+bug/1325752
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1325752 in mixxx (Ubuntu) "All apps become mute when certain apps are opened." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zequence> OvenWerks: Why don't you put your effort in helping out with developing -controls instead?
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'd rather see customizable profiles, which would appear if created and saved - and the app would ship a couple by default.
<zequence> Some people might only need a single profile, others plenty more
<holstein> OvenWerks: im *so* slammed.. i want to test that ASAP.. looks *very* cllo
<holstein> cool*
<OvenWerks> zequence_: I need this for my system. I am willing to offer it to others if they want it too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-10
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Why not work on what others want, and start from that prespective, so you can make a tool that everyone will need.
<zequence> The new CD ISO should be a reality quite soon. Got some pointers on how to get it all into shape
<holstein> zequence: you mean, in the !paste command?
<holstein> zequence: change from imagebin to snag.gy ?
<holstein> i'll ask Unit193, if so.. there may be some reason its like that
<zequence> holstein: I don't know much about those pages. I read in xubuntu-offtopic that the warning had something to do with a ad?
<holstein> zequence: i know much less about it.. 
<holstein> zequence: is that what you were talkin about?
<holstein> the warning?
<zequence> holstein: Yeah
<elfy> https://safebrowsing.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
<elfy> that's what it is 
<zequence> holstein: dan-roger is a former student of mine, and probably doesn't speak much English. Is very new to anything computerish, so expect some problems communicating there.
<holstein> zequence: good.. i was about to lay into him
<holstein> zequence: i was giving him the benifit of the doubt on a language barrier
<zequence> I was able to chat with him privately today. It'll take him some time to understand how IRC works. Was a little surprised to see him pop up the other day
<zequence> elfy: Looks a little fishy :)
<elfy> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-12
<OvenWerks> zequence: ubuntustudio-controls has two bugs Bug #1329114 and Bug #1329117.
<ubottu> bug 1329114 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-controls will not run. Gksu is missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329114
<ubottu> bug 1329117 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-controls fails with Segmentation fault (core dumped)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329117
<OvenWerks> The first is easy to fix, but the second would seem to need a rewrite of the gui portion of things due to using gtk2. I think fixing the first bug before the second is a bad idea as it will just make things so that any time someone tries to run -controls we get a new bug report.
<OvenWerks> While I am willing to work on it, I would pretty much need to rewrite it from scratch. To do so I would want an application spec.
<OvenWerks> I would probably not do it the way you would do it. I would try to self document as much as I could though.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have added my two cents to the ubuntustudio blueprint (in the white board area), but wonder if it would be helpful to start a wiki page for it. It would be easier for me to visualize what is going on and wanted if there were graphics attached.
<OvenWerks> zequence: more thoughts on -controls. I think we need a collection of scripts to go with it. Starting Jack (and a2jmidid) at the begining of a session for example, needs to be done by a system script, but still needs user config. It needs to do it's job and get out of the way. There are some parts of the controls stuff that really are a part of settings and others that are needed during run time. To put all of this into one application in a dropd
<zequence> OvenWerks: We'll fix it by rewriting it from scratch
<zequence> OvenWerks: First version will be only a SRU for trusty, that can do one thing: give users realtime rights
<zequence> OvenWerks: After we've done that version, we can start making it what has been planned for years
<zequence> Let's do one thing at a time
<zequence> First, a simple gui app that can give any user realtime rights.
<zequence> i have some bash code that can decide if a user is a "real" user
<zequence> let me do some things first, then I can at least show what I'm thinking there
<zequence> Well, I'll get back to that anyhow
<zequence> OvenWerks: But, sure, if you find solutions to problems separately, no matter in which type of code, just collect them for later, and we can look at how we implement them
<zequence> OvenWerks: On starting jack - if we have our own control for that, we can do any number of things before jack is started
<zequence> ..and make that configurable too
<zequence> if you are interested in looking at how to do configuration files, in python, there's a nice simple library for that - https://bitbucket.org/ambv/configparser
<zequence> package name: python-configparser
<zequence> I'm not against using qt4, just that I've only been doing GT3 myself so far
<zequence> GTK3*
<zequence> Only one person needs to do the gui interface anyway
<zequence> OvenWerks: I think we should focus on planning features first, then do implementations. falktx has done a lot of work that might be useful to us. No reason to reinvent the wheel :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: The main thing I didn't like about Falk's tool is that the dropdown from the systray had too much stuff in it... it was too hard to use quickly.
<OvenWerks> (maybe I am just getting old)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-13
<zequence> OvenWerks: I agree. The design of the gui is not done well on falks tool, but then again, it has a lot of useful code
<zequence> It works as systray or indicator app
<zequence> and i believe it can control any jack
<zequence> or just jack2?
<zequence> a bunch of tweaks in it
<OvenWerks> I am thinking there are things that are set once in a while that are best accessed from settings and other things that get changed on the fly more often.
<zequence> Yes
<zequence> It should be as minimal as possible
<zequence> Even settings should have two layers - basic, and advanced
<OvenWerks> That makes sense.
<OvenWerks> jack 1, 2 or dbus should all be easy to control... even with pulse thrown in.
<OvenWerks> dbus is just easy and automated
<zequence> While the design of the gui is interesting, that can be redone any number of times once we have all the features coded down as functions and classes
<OvenWerks> functions or procedures I am ok with classes are harder :)
<zequence> I dont' care, as long as it works, and is fairly well organized
<OvenWerks> objects I understand what they are supposed to do, but the syntax gets me.
<zequence> anyway, no reason to reinvent the wheel, so if we can use falktx code, we should
<OvenWerks> OK
 * OvenWerks is going to put kids to bed
<zequence> I have some C code that checks if the user has rtprio and memlock from the kernel. Comparing that with settings will let the user know if a reboot is needed.
<zequence> Don't think anyone has done something like that
<zequence> Well, ardour possibly does exactly that
<zequence> (except for checking settings)
<OvenWerks> ardour does that by asking for that access, so does jack
<OvenWerks> But knowing before getting a bunch of errors is good.
<zequence> Right, jack does that of course
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-15
<OvenWerks> systray, appliaction indicator, and panel applets are all different.
<OvenWerks> It seems that panel applets are panel(therefore DE) specific
<OvenWerks> systray works everywhere? Or used to. and application indicators are supposed to replace systray stuff sometime.
<OvenWerks> The stuff I read seems to be a few years old.. but seems to indicate that gnome 3 (shell and classic) hide the systray.
<OvenWerks> They do seem to have indicators... I need to install it again and check.
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: I *think* the Gnome3 indicators are different than the Ubuntu indicators.  Unity also doesn't do systray, while LXDE and tint2 don't do indicators.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Gnome3 has its own thing, but can support both indicator and systray apps with plugins
<zequence> falktx has some code that makes his app be either systay or indicator, depending on the platform
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am also reading that unity _can_ turn a systray on... but that may be old info. It would be nice rather than looking for the platform to look for an indicator box and use it if it is there... if not then look for systray... which should cover the flavours we have to deal with. It would also be possible to "iconize to desktop" which used to be very common in the early days of X.
<OvenWerks> Reading things at free desktop org, it appears that the application indicators are meant to be a replacement for systray. So it is possible that LXqt will include app-indicators in the future.
<OvenWerks> Gnome as you say has it's own thing, but I expect ubuntu gnome will include the plugins needed anyway. (I don't know about debian)
<OvenWerks> As to freedesktop.org, I will also note that the systray in inthe section called: Draft specifications that are new and not yet widely used.  Yet I think you can get systray support for almost any wm/de out there. The application indicator is called: Specifications currently in the planning/requirements-gathering stages
<OvenWerks> even though they have been in use as a standard for a number of years.
<OvenWerks> anyway, gui is maybe not so important just yet.
<OvenWerks> I did wnt to throw some things out about security though. Editing of system files should require a password, but switching system modes should not. That is setting CPU governor on the fly should not require a password. Turning off some system services that have been pre selected with a password should not require a password either.
<OvenWerks> I expect that most people will not require turning system services off (cron for example), however, there are some systems where removing the wireless kernel module is the only way to get lowlatency audio without xruns. (these would be laptops)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ubuntu Gnome, to my knowledge, does not have those plugins by default. Haven't seen them packaged even. One needs to get them at extensions.gnome.org
<zequence> OvenWerks: On monday and onwards I will have more time. It's time to wrap up feature specs, and so I will do that during the week for everything.
<zequence> I'll also wrap up what has been discussed about -controls, and update/re-organize the wiki page, and make sure there is a relevant blueprint
<zequence> Nice work on the mail list, btw. 
<zequence> Feature Definition Freeze is on Thursday, I think. 
<zequence> Not a big deal for most of our work, but it's good to be firm about the stuff that Ubuntu devs need to be apart of, like our new ISO
<zequence> Also, that date is a good time to wrap up planning anyway, I think.
<zequence> So, from there on, we can just focus on doing the work
<OvenWerks> zequence: Are we going to get to pulling in code from the ubiquity plugin to -installer this cycle? If not we should get the current updates uploaded at least. The main thing is that it deals with install errors properly. The one released so far fails silently and just says complete.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Can we create an -audio-setting or -system-settings package?
<OvenWerks> This would not make doing system settings in -controls go away, but it would load settings that are done by installing files.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-08
<zequence> holstein: I appreciate you communicating to Grant about helping out, but I think you might have missed a few things.
<zequence> First of all, there was an introduction made by him where he explained willingness to help out. This was his first post to the mail list.
<zequence> I answered, and since then he's been getting into how things work
<zequence> He's followed the first setup guide I've written in the wiki
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment
<zequence> Since you do not do a lot of development, you might not be in the loop with what is required, etc
<zequence> Just to report a bug can require a lot of preparation
<zequence> The dailys are usually quite stable. Have been for many years
<zequence> Did you try to install one yourself? Is there a problem?
<zequence> ..with the iso, I mean. I havent tried it yet. But in order to make sure Grant is not having a very local problem, it may be best to first try installing the iso before anything.
<zequence> I'm doind that tomorrow
<len-1510> zequence, 32 bit ISO tested in live and now installed. Same as vivid.  :P
<len-1510> zequence, no troubles booting running or installing so far as I can tell.
<DalekSec> That could be fixed...
<len-1510> I am sure it will be. Time to do some of that.  I would really like it if the logon screen did not default to white, needing a mouse click to get to the password text box.
<len-1510> zequence, I like the new qjackctl (all comments about looks aside) at least the interface selector is easy to use.
 * len-1510 is off to reboot.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-09
<holstein> zequence: so, are you saying, you want me to stop communicating with him? if so, invite him into a private email with *only* you
<holstein> zequence: i feel, if i want to install from a daily, i can.. i dont think he is using a daily.. he hasnt indicated using the daily iso
<holstein> he wouldnt need 15.10 to test a PPA package, though..
<holstein> anyways, just tell him what you want. i read, he is still trying only one iso that im not sure the date. it could just be one of the times the iso gets broken
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok, you tested it. I haven't got the opportunity yet
<zequence> He said he downloaded the iso a few times. Don't think the old ones are kept at all, There are only dailys until there's a specific release - i.e. alpha, beta or final
<zequence> But, he's not being very specific about some things. It's common for beginners to not know how to be specific and concice in the communication so that everyone knows what's going on, and not too many words were used
<zequence> Otherwise you read a lot, but understand very little :)
<zequence> An every day battle, I think, making sure the communication is doing what it is supposed to
<zequence> I might have some time tomorrow, or the day after. I will respond to the mail list then, if needed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-13
<geirdal> OvenWerks: sakrecoer: thanks for your answers :) but I was asking about the size of the images. I will keep my questions more clear next time ;)
<sakrecoer> i've rendered all the titlecards, but they end up pretty big in lossless, so i can't add them to launchpad...
<sakrecoer> any idea where we could store them for future use?
<sakrecoer> i mean, we could add them to the archive.org... but not sure it's the best place..
<sakrecoer> neh... i'll put them there. my concern is that archive does derivate files, but since it preserve the original, i'll just link to them on the wiki page.
<autumna> umm we could get a dropbox account or something?
<sakrecoer> autumna: maybe, i guess i'd personaly rather not :D bzr+launchpad is more fun of a dropbox :D anyways no need for this thing.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/VideoFormat#Artwork
<sakrecoer> noe need *for dropbox with this thing
<geirdal> I have sent an email with a link to the background images for the webside, fyrst try hope you like it, should I also post link here?
<zequence> sakrecoer: You can always use your owncloud account
<zequence> Though, I need to fix a public ssl key
<zequence> I mean, not a self-signed one
<zequence> sakrecoer: Did you change the cover for Ubuntu Studio?
<zequence> If there was some discussion about it, I have missed it
<zequence> I would have liked to give some feedback before publishing
<zequence> sakrecoer: Really, do not do that before discussing at least with one other person. And, when you do it, do it for all the places where we are active - not just facebook
<zequence> I like the wallpaper as a background image, but the mug shot looks a bit crappy, IMO
<zequence> I know I told you to see if you could adapt that stuff to our social sites, but not like that
<zequence> It's always best to plan, discuss and then publish. It's not your personal page after all :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-14
<sakrecoer> zequence: you asked me to change the cover to the new theme last week..
<sakrecoer> sorry, i read the hilight window first...
<sakrecoer> you are right i should have asked first... not sure what i was thinking, but certainly not that it is my personal page. its mote facebooks, personal porfiling log of ubuntustudio :D
<sakrecoer> *more
<sakrecoer> anyways... so what do you guys suggest as muggshot for our socialnetwork?
<sakrecoer> zequence, autumna, geirdal, cfhowlett, cub, krytarik ^
<sakrecoer> #everyone
<geirdal> I like it like it is now!
<zequence> No, it's below a standard that we've had, I think
<zequence> The CoF needs to be big and clear
<zequence> Something similar to what we had before
<zequence> geirdal: Hello, btw. We haven't met yet, I believe
<geirdal> no hi :)
<sakrecoer> *chuckles* i find facebook to be bellow our standard. buuuuuuut it's just my personal opinion, :D
<sakrecoer> i'll show you a muggshot in ten
<zequence> Yeah, whatever. As said, facebook is just one place where we exist
<zequence> I'll let you keep your standard then. See you in a year or so
<zequence> sakrecoer: Sorry. That was uncalled for. But, really, I don't feel very motivated to do this work right now
<zequence> So, I will probably not be around much for a while.
<zequence> You know where to find me, and I'll be checking these channels now and then.
<sakrecoer> zequence: no worries :) 
<sakrecoer> anyways, i agree that the logo could be more visible on that mughsot.
<sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio_ghostCOF_mugshot.png
<sakrecoer> it's big, i doubt it will ever be that big on facebook
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Re firewire. I do not know what is up with DV. If the snd FW drivers interfere with that, then it is a bug. However, audio is ok. just use the firewire device through ALSA rather than using the jack FW backend.
<OvenWerks> I do not have a FW device to play with. SO I can't comment farther than that. I think you have it right though. That to use DV you may have to unload the alsa FW drivers.
<OvenWerks> right now I can not justify buying the required equipment just to test.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: allright... thing is that, when i use Alsa, i don't have access to all the I/O,,, in fact, i haven't been able to use my firewire card with the alsaFW at all until now..
<sakrecoer> until now= yet
<sakrecoer> anyways, i understand there isn't much you can do about it...
<sakrecoer> now we know the fix however :)
<sakrecoer> blacklist thing...
<sakrecoer> in case someone asks... 
<sakrecoer> so until i find a way to buy you a firewire card, OvenWerks, lets just hope (*teardrop*) firewire vanishes, or that the fix will satisfy the bugged out user :)
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: two things strike my minds:
<sakrecoer> 1) probably i am doing something wrong with asla's firewire thing, maybe we can book some time where i try stuff and send logs 
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I would require, FW PCIe card, audio box and probaly DV input device at least to test. More than I can justify from the family budget :)
<sakrecoer> 2) if we don't get it to work, perhaps there could be an option in Ubunstu control that, once ticket, puts a blacklist file where it should be?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: That would be possible yes.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: of course i understand. i can't realy buy you the stuff either... i will see if i can find out who i need to sleep with at the CC tho :D
<sakrecoer> or sell a liver.. biiiit... no... its worthless and broken anyways :D
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I think that basically the code for FW was stuffed into ALSA with not much testing.
<OvenWerks> I do not even know if a MIDI port on a FW device shows in alsa.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no fw midi port in alsa... well. as far as i've seen...
<OvenWerks> But if ALSA FW stops DV input from working that should be reported as a bug I think.
<sakrecoer> i haven't gone so far yet as to see a corelation with the DV part...
<sakrecoer> let me try :)
<sakrecoer> no...
<sakrecoer> not even starting kdenlive with sudo does it...
<sakrecoer> i haven't tried to remove video1394 or raw1394 from the blacklist tho...
<sakrecoer> but blacklist thing is way out of my league...
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: what is at stake if i put a "#" in front of dv1394, raw1394 and video 1394 in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-firewire.conf ?
<sakrecoer> will my computer start dreaming about strangling me? :D
<autumna> sakrecoer: re mugshot I think the general idea is sound, but I would suggest something that has a bit of a dark shadow behind the main ubuntu logo, so that it is more easily visible, when shown small (which happens). More cropped up to the main logo area is a good idea for same reason. Also if it allows gifs, animated spinning logo could be entertaining, but that's a personal thing. ;D
<sakrecoer> autumna: you tell me what format is allowed on facebook :D i'll see what i can do for the rest
<autumna> I am not sure off the top of my head *is not particularly a facebook expert* so not entirely sure if gif is allowed or not
<autumna> sakrecoer: it looks like there is an option to add gif, or was at some point, but only for some profiles. so not feasible to have an animated image at this time. ;D
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no, commenting out those 1394 things didn't do it for the video.
<sakrecoer> anwyays, i'm off for today. let's look into the alsaFW later this week if you have sometime.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-15
<sakrecoer> how about this one then? http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/image4263.png
<sakrecoer> meanwhile i'll revert to the old one 
<sakrecoer> i don't think it works as good, but maybe i'm wrong? http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/imageblack.png
<sakrecoer> hmm... the new one got 101 "likes" and 2 shares.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: so i've tried all possible settins with the alsa FireWire, but no way to start jack using the firewire card.
<sakrecoer> i noticed "coreaudio" is in the list of Driver in qjackctl..? :D
<sakrecoer> anyways, OvenWerks : where should file the bug at best? 
<cub> I don't really get what the problem was with the original Ubuntu Studio logo on Facebook or wherever?
<cub> It's not like we should change the logo for every release. Why not keep the one we have? Also, are we allowed to alter the logo anyway we want? As there was a lot of discussions and contact with Canonical for the tshirt printing and how we could use the name and so on.
<sakrecoer> ok, then the old be it. as for the logo altercation, i believe there is a difference between altering the logo, and creating a mugshot for a social network.
<sakrecoer> cub: there was no problem with the logo, there was an expressed desire to update the look on the social networks
<cub> Sure, imho the logo should stay the same though. One colour and one B/W version.
<sakrecoer> though... no one ever discussed changing the logo. :) are you suggesting i put the B/W there instead?
<sakrecoer> there= social networks
<cub> No I like the blue one. Strictly marketing speaking the logo change in the new background image is a change to the logo.
<cub> usually such changes would not be allowed.
<autumna> sakrecoer I like the white one better than the black one. :) 
<sakrecoer> cub: the background image, as the desktop wallpaper, the one that is now the header of the facebook page? i think we have two very different views on how "strickt marketing" operates on the level of graphic identity. afaik, the "background image" is not an altercation of the logo. It's an illsutration, used in a marketing context. PErsonaly i would aply that to the mugshot as well, but hey, let's have the blue one there and move on to some
<sakrecoer> anyone has tested ross backport?
<sakrecoer> autumna: i think so too, but i'm not touching that anymore this week :) the blue logo is fine, and its everywhere.
<autumna> sakrecoer: I don't see logo as something immutable but I also see cub's point about it not being a trivial thing
<autumna> you can always get some of the text changes to the feature tour done? *ducks the incoming object* :D
<sakrecoer> the logo is immutable. using the logo for illustration work is _not_ altercating the logo. i don't say cub's remark is trivial, i'm saying it's out of scope.
<sakrecoer> the logo should not be changed. i can see what cub says for the mugshot, absolutely. 
<sakrecoer> anyways, yes i could do that, autumna. how is the support text going?
 * autumna quickly goes quiet and pretends to be busily working
<autumna> :P
<autumna> jokes aside I'll get it done before 23rd.
<sakrecoer> awesome!
<autumna> :)
<cub> It comes down to who actually "owns" the logo and are there any restrictions involved. No company I ever worked for would allow making wallpapers with such logo "illustrations" that we allow
<cub> Now it's a creative distro so perhaps that's ok
<cub> but I feel it should be obvious in some cases to quickly pinpoint that this is an official Ubuntu Studio channel
<sakrecoer> cub: i'd much rather have you telling me what picture should be in that header or how the picture should be, than telling me how coporate identity works. i can hear what you are saying in terms of the mughsot. for the header, i am open to your suggestions.
<sakrecoer> cub: you are also very welcome to create a proposal for the header.
<sakrecoer> cub: in other words how do you envision the header? how do we make it look "official" enough?
<cub> I think keep the mugshot or what it's called with the original logo. The header can be really anything. The identity is in the small icon that follows every post.
<cub> I just think we should verify if there are any restrictions to the logo. If not, then we should make some guidelines. Unless we think it's ok to use however (which I don't agree with). But for PR purposes there should be a way to quickly identify it's Ubuntu Studio and to me that is the logo.
<sakrecoer> cub: cool :) i agree. you right that i makes sense to have the logo pure and simple in the mugshot/icon/facebook-face-thingy
<sakrecoer> *it makes sense
<autumna> cub need to verify restrictions on the logo is a good point. what also sounds like is down the line it might be beneficial to have some documentation of the visual identity of the ubuntustudio in general. (which would include information on logo variations, official colors etc) 
<autumna> down the line. e.g. not next month :D
 * autumna away for a bit
<geirdal> have posted new background images here http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0 , hope Ive got the email list thingy right this time:P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-16
<OvenWerk1> Anyone know if flowblade is any good
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: no, but by the looks of it, i'd say its somewhere in between pitivi and kdenlive..
<OvenWerk1> Has anyone else noticed that cpu governor setting in 16.04 is changed?
<OvenWerk1> the path /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/ no longer exists.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: i have that path 
<sakrecoer> assuming that by cpu* you mean cpu0 to cpu_howevermanycores
<sakrecoer> all my cores have the cpufreq folder inside, with a bucnh of files like "cpuinfo_cur_freq"
<sakrecoer> oh, but maybe you mean, the governor is using something else?
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: no I don't have those files at all in 16.04
<sakrecoer> weird... i do... let me check on my other 16.04 machine.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: yup, its there too
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer:  what cpus do you have?
<OvenWerk1> cpufreq-set works, but any of the change sys/* stuf doesn't.
<sakrecoer> cpu0-cpu7 on one machine also cpufreq and cpuidle
<sakrecoer> on the other one i have cpu0-cpu3
<sakrecoer>  ^OvenWerk1
<OvenWerk1> intel?
<sakrecoer> yes
<OvenWerk1> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
<OvenWerk1> gives what?
<sakrecoer> powersave
<OvenWerk1> That at least makes sense
 * OvenWerk1 thinks he has missed something... http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM3NDQ
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: ok... why... do i have it then? 
<sakrecoer> geirdal: maybe something to use?... just a suggestion. I like what ralf did, but the resolution of the photos is realy poor.
<sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubustu_camera.png
<sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubustu_camera_outline.png
<sakrecoer> i guess it evokes more photo than video.. but yeah...its a common tool in video these days...
<sakrecoer> its from this: http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/77959 just replaced the branding really,
<sakrecoer> hmm... now that i think of it, it says CC0, but probably it needs deformation for us to use... never mind those pics :D
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: I must have missed part of my path
<OvenWerk1> (or my upgrade fixed it)
<OvenWerk1> cd
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-17
<geirdal> New background images, fourth try- here: geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
<autumna> sakrecoer: to clarify, either day (21, or 23) is fine for me. :) 
<geirdal> what time is it for me GMT
<geirdal> background images as suggested by Ralf, it is not nice to call geometric art logs! I dont want to make this.
<geirdal> geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
<geirdal> fifth try!
<autumna> whoa, radical change to the first image geirdal
<autumna> geirdal: re what you said on off-topic, I actually think set 4 might work just fine (and the first image might even work better than the flat one. main issue is having enough brightness contrast between the white text and the background
<autumna> which front graphic of 4 does better than 5
<geirdal> aggree
<geirdal> I will make a new version based on 4
<geirdal> with more contrast
<autumna> more contrast with the text right?
<geirdal> right
<autumna> I think this might be fine
<autumna> maybe a bit less contrast within the image. (so that it is the same amount of contrast the section ones have)
<autumna> but seriously
<autumna> it might be readable as it is
<autumna> its a bit busy 
<autumna> but.. yeah, do you have a copy of the image without the text on top?
<geirdal> we will see, its good to have something to choose from
<geirdal> ofcours
<autumna> *nods*
<geirdal> i will post a link
<autumna> thanks :D
<geirdal> it need more work on the contrast but I think we are on the right track http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
<geirdal> they arre in  1280 Ã 720 pixels like sakrekoer suggested to me
<autumna> *replaces it at the feature test
<geirdal> send me link, Ive lost it :P
<geirdal> this one ? http://www.ubuntustudio.zequence.net/feature-test/
<autumna> yep
<autumna> sorry I was just logging in
<geirdal> ok ;)
<geirdal> take the backround of the text autumna, can you do that :)
<autumna> actually I was just doing that
<autumna> done
<geirdal> :))))
<geirdal> good readability? Yes
<autumna> yeah I don't see any major issues with it
<autumna> well
<autumna> ok it still is very busy
<autumna> which is not ideal
<autumna> but I will also still try to see if I can add the blur in there
<geirdal> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-18
<geirdal> ok background images what should IO do next?
<sakrecoer> geirdal: background images-> try to remove noise from them. Less contrast, less volume, less elements.
<geirdal> That is just flat color? Yes?
<sakrecoer> geirdal: like in no image? no, it's what you have done now, largely toned down.
<geirdal> ok I will do another version :)
<geirdal> toned down
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-19
<geirdal> for creative Humans?
<OvenWerk1> geirdal: creative dogs are allowed... or aliens (even illegal ones)
<OvenWerk1> For Creative Creatures?   ;)
<geirdal> Owenverk1: hehehehe
 * OvenWerk1 thinks he has seen a video of a dog doing paintings not too long ago
<OvenWerk1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrvOUWDetOs
<geirdal> yes!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-06-15
<OvenWerks> Ardour 5.10 released today. Mostly fixes
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-11
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's great stuff to know. When it's all built, I'll give it a whirl on Wednesday while I'm at work.
<OvenWerks> It says it built about 5 hours ago.
<ErichEickmeyer> Oh cool!
<ErichEickmeyer> I'll give it a try then, but I don't have very good hardware with which to test here.
<OvenWerks> It should work with any hardware :)
<ErichEickmeyer> Oh, that's not the hardware I meant. I meant USB interfaces and such.
<OvenWerks> I understand that, but as this is something that runs from session start it is good to make sure it does not trouble non-audio users as well
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, sounds good.
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm trying to migrate a website for a friend of mine at the same time, so I can't do too much restarting right now. 
<OvenWerks> no worries, testing as something that is running all the time and you should not notice it is there
<ErichEickmeyer> Actually, two websites. They're very old wordpress sites that have been around for a while and have tens of thousands of posts, so database migration is taking quite some time.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-12
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I have made some updates... first controls should work right out of the box without logout/in (unless jackd is miss-installed of course) as it will start the backend if the session has not for some reason. Also the, the USB jack master drop down rechecks which SUB devises are available when the mouse enters that drop down button box so a device that has just been plugged in will show up without restarting -controls.
<OvenWerks> I am going to try installing it raw onto kubuntu to see what it does with no jackd install or bad install.
<OvenWerks> That was a good exersice... kubuntu showed me missing depends
<OvenWerks> try again...
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I haven't installed it yet. Just got done migrating those websites. Should be able to start playing with it soon.
<OvenWerks> seems much better now.
<OvenWerks> I may need another delay in there somewhere.
<OvenWerks> some things seem to work better when I run the back end in a terminal than as back ground
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-13
<OvenWerks> briefly looking at ubuntustudio-live which has our ubiquity install menu in it. From that it looks like to do different desktops (DEs) we need to create ubuntustudio-desktop-xfce and -plasma as extra packages rather than as a part of seeds. -live depends on -meta (which has not been rebuilt for some years now and need to be updated)
<OvenWerks> so we need a -desktop, and -desktop-xfce as a starting point. -desktop would remain in seeds (or could anyway) but desktop-xfce would become a package.
<OvenWerks> it would contain applications which are not a part of one of our work flows and are not DE specific (like FF).
<ErichEickmeyer> Ah yes. Simply a metapackage, right?
<OvenWerks> right
<ErichEickmeyer> Makes sense.
<OvenWerks> I think we could then offer the choice of kubuntu-desktop as is.
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, so that means it pulls the kubuntu-desktop and then perhaps some customizing in default-settings?
<OvenWerks> Our settings package would need to have some plasma settings built in as well
<ErichEickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I have to switch to kubuntu and reinstall -controls to see how miy fixes work.
<ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
<ErichEickmeyer> BTW, all the icon updates are done. Can be installed from the daily for bionic and cosmic.
<OvenWerks> I saw that. I have to go back into that package and fix the backdrop stuff too.
<ErichEickmeyer> Might have to tweak the panel in xfce to be slightly wider, otherwise it looks like a blue circle with something in the middle.
<ErichEickmeyer> Works perfectly in Plasma.
<OvenWerks> can the circle be made smaller? (closer to the outside of the symbol?)
 * OvenWerks hasn't looked yet
<ErichEickmeyer> Well, it's at the edge as it is. It's only 22px.
<OvenWerks> Like I said, I was sugesting without even looking :P
<ErichEickmeyer> hehe
<OvenWerks> hu, rtirq seems to be broken in 18.10 or maybe it's kubuntu 18.10
<OvenWerks> it works fine in Studio 18.04
<OvenWerks> DLing Studio 18.10 to check.
<ErichEickmeyer> That seems like something that would be in the kernel for sure.
<OvenWerks> The last time rtirq-init was synced was 2015
<OvenWerks> Same as debian.
<OvenWerks> Latest upstream is 20180420
<OvenWerks> Anyway, writing Studio 18.10 to iso, will check rtirq there... if it works fine, but we should still look at a sync request in debian. If not fine, I will download from git and try that
<ErichEickmeyer> Might have to get a debian package and sync request.
<OvenWerks> debian is old too
<OvenWerks> so ya
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Calf is still at 0.60 whereas 0.90.0 has been released with tons of new features.
<OvenWerks> but need to make sure the git one works
<ErichEickmeyer> yep
<OvenWerks> There is another package that does the same thing that may be worth looking at too.
<OvenWerks> it works after boot as well (like when a SUB device is plugged in)
<OvenWerks> s/SUB/USB/
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: rtirq works fine in Studio 18.10
<ErichEickmeyer> Hmm... sync request then.
<OvenWerks> even the one we have works fine
<OvenWerks> It must be that one of our settings gives permition
<OvenWerks> sync request in debian would still make sense
<ErichEickmeyer> Could it be the memlock setting?
<ErichEickmeyer> /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
<OvenWerks> anyway, I am not sure what the difference is, but in Studio 1810, pulling a usb device out gets a right now responce, but in kubuntu, it takes 1 or 2 minutes during which cpu activity goes way up.
<OvenWerks> I suspect there may be another setting because -controls fixes that
<ErichEickmeyer> What if Plasma was installed on top of Studio?
<OvenWerks> :) I am going to try that next as happens...
<OvenWerks> I will try installing kubuntu-desktop
<ErichEickmeyer> the package to install for a vanilla Plasma desktop is kde-plasma-desktop.
<OvenWerks> I know that is different, but kubuntu has the full list
 * ErichEickmeyer noods
 * ErichEickmeyer * nods
<OvenWerks> I may try the other as well to see what the differece is.
<OvenWerks> But getting the kubuntu theme is important (at least to me)
<ErichEickmeyer> That's as easy as a default setting since Plasma comes with the themes by default, just not configured like Kubuntu.
<OvenWerks> right
<OvenWerks> I also want to compare kubuntu-desktop to kubuntu-full
<ErichEickmeyer> kubuntu-full is kubuntu-desktop plus the kitchen sink, afaik.
<OvenWerks> for some version of kitchen sink yes
<ErichEickmeyer> XD
<ErichEickmeyer> Anyways, off to work with me. 
<OvenWerks> o/
<ErichEickmeyer> \o
<OvenWerks> even -desktop has a lot
<krytarik> Now, while the commit history on the -default-settings branch is definitely funny too, who gets to merge the newly created changelog section into the previous one that wasn't released yet either? >_>
<OvenWerks> krytarik: it needs to be fixed before release... but I can only do one thing at a time.
<OvenWerks> We need to change the backdrop spec back to png but it is too late to just roll back so edit. That is probably better anyway.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: do you know much about plasma?
<krytarik> Not particularly, no.
<OvenWerks> I installed it on top of Studio a while ago
<OvenWerks> the session manager shows two options both called Plasma
<OvenWerks> the first one cuts off both my keyboard and mouse
<OvenWerks> the second is ok.
<OvenWerks> there is only one plasma.desktop in /usr/share/xsessions/
<krytarik> grep -l 'Plasma' /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop
<OvenWerks> I still only get one
<krytarik> Huh. >_>
<OvenWerks> The one I am using runs /usr/bin/startkde
<OvenWerks> I wonder if the one that doesn't work is for wayland? (that doesn't make sense)
<OvenWerks> Funny as it may seem... the extra login type _is_ for a wayland login
<OvenWerks> by changing the dm to sddm instead of lightdm it all became clear
<OvenWerks> sddm puts (wayland) after that entry
<krytarik> https://sources.debian.org/src/plasma-workspace/4:5.12.5-1/plasmawayland.desktop.cmake/ â '/usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop'
<OvenWerks> krytarik: it would be nice not to have that. sddm does have a config it may be able to be set to not look there
<krytarik> Well, I wouldn't want to limit it for the cases where Wayland does work on a system.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: in my (not very humble) opinion, the wayland entries should not be displayed on a system that does not have wayland anyway.
<OvenWerks> but anyway, it looks like setting up a ubuntustudio-desktop-plasma would not be that hard.
<OvenWerks> The problem is more with including it in the meta without including the packages in the iso
<krytarik> dpkg -l | grep 'wayland'
<OvenWerks> as of now there are no sddm config files. making one and setting [Wayland]\n SessionDir= would probably remove that entry. and as you point out making a systemd entry that checks for wayland installed would allow for removing the config file.
<krytarik> Well no, that was to indicate that you should have plenty of Wayland stuff installed by now.
<OvenWerks> So I do... but wayland doesn't work so at least something is missing
<krytarik> Yes, I think it's just as often that it doesn't support your hardware/driver combo sufficiently.
<OvenWerks> both my mouse and my keyboard?
<OvenWerks> Yikes!
<krytarik> I dunno!  It sucks? :P
<OvenWerks> and of course my monitors were reversed as well.
 * OvenWerks thinks Wayland is not ready for release yet...
<OvenWerks> sddm does not ball up xfce either ErichEickmeyer add to next meeting adjenda: discuse replacing lightdm with sddm. I am sure lightdm could be configured too, now that we know what to look for, but sddm may be better going forward when Wayland does finally show up
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Done.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: what other DMs are other flavours using? sddm is a qt based deal, I don't know about lightdm (gtk?) What does vanilla use? gdm?
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: regarding an iso with choosing the DE: if only one of the DEs is on the iso and a second one is chosen but not the first... a lot of these things get downloaded at install time, but installed after first boot... but if the current DE has been revoved at install, how do you login the first time to install the all ready DL DE packages
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-14
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ubuntu (proper) uses gdm; Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Budgie, and Ubuntu MATE use lightdm; Kubuntu uses sddm.
<ErichEickmeyer> With Wayland, I think it's a session file that gets installed that can probably be omitted. I'll have to do more research on that. DMs will only look for .session files.
<ErichEickmeyer> With the DE, I'm not quite tracking. I thought we were originally talking about having one ISO per DE, making the DE choice an ISO download thing from the website. If the user wants both, they could choose either one and then, perhaps, -welcome or -boutique will have a way to easily install the DE.
<ErichEickmeyer> For instance, if they download the Xfce ISO and decide they want both Xfce and Plasma, then they could go to the proper page in -boutique after initial install and select it.
<ErichEickmeyer> Just spitballing ideas here. :)
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: dual ISOs will not have people choose both DEs and that is one advantage of ISOs :)
<ErichEickmeyer> Yes. Exactly.
<OvenWerks> there have been other ideas about just choosing the DE on install all from one ISO that I have failed to forget about.
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, but I thought, based on your recommendation, we went with the dual ISO route.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure how to get a second ISO spun, but as I said I will run up a second seed
<ErichEickmeyer> I think all we have to do is run it up the flagpole, as it were. Make the seed, let the release team know we would like to try this (they're already aware of the plan), ???, Profit!
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm pretty sure tsimonq2 knows how to get that going.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> there are a number of packages for ubuntustudio that need to get released
<ErichEickmeyer> Yes. Pretty much all of the ones we've updated (controls, default settings, icon theme, etc.)
<OvenWerks> right
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev
<OvenWerks> The top four on that page
<ErichEickmeyer> I haven't seen much chatter from tsimonq2 lately, but I'm 90% sure he knows how to get that ball rolling.
<OvenWerks> -meta should probably be updated too
<ErichEickmeyer> Yes.
<ErichEickmeyer> Would that be to remove mypaint?
<OvenWerks> I am not sure the ISO seems to build
<OvenWerks>  and yet the install chooser still works too
<OvenWerks> (-live)
<OvenWerks> so I am not sure what the relationship is beteen things
<OvenWerks> The whole installer is confusing, there are four categoies of applications in ubiquity:
<OvenWerks> stuff on the ISO that ends up installed
<OvenWerks> stuff in the ISO that is not installed, but which may or may not be used in live ISO use
<OvenWerks> stuff that is not on the ISO that gets DL and installed
<OvenWerks> updates that get DL but not fully installed.
<ErichEickmeyer> The daily ISO is building currently.
<ErichEickmeyer> Once we removed mypaint it started building again.
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, that's a little confusing.
 * ErichEickmeyer might take a look
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just did a "cry for help" in #ubuntu-devel and now the ball is rolling on getting those pushed to Cosmic.
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2 to the rescue.
<tsimonq2> \o/
<tsimonq2> So, continuing this here.
<ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
<tsimonq2> Seems like ACLs are kinda in place now.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: Could you please set https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/+git/ubuntustudio-icon-theme to be the default for https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-icon-theme ?
<tsimonq2> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-icon-theme is now a thing, fwiw
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: Done.
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: Wow, we're truckin' along on this git conversion!
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: My secret is that I can do git clone bzr::lp:foo and it just converts it automatically. But it's a two-way Bazaar interface, so when I push, it's Bazaar.
<ErichEickmeyer> Interesting. Sounds almost... too easy. XD
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: tsimonq2 is getting everything converted to git as well. So that should help.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: That's because it IS too easy. XD
<ErichEickmeyer> LOL
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/0.18
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: \o/
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: so, if I git clone bzr::lp:ubuntustudio-menu it will convert it, or is this a custom script you made?
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: https://github.com/mnauw/git-remote-bzr
<ErichEickmeyer> I C.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: So, I personally keep a set of packaging guidelines that I follow across these types of packages. Want me to note them somewhere?
<ErichEickmeyer> That would be great.
<tsimonq2> Where should I put them?
<ErichEickmeyer> Do you have wiki access?
<tsimonq2> I do.
<ErichEickmeyer> Somewhere in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio would be good. We have a lot of cleanup to do there still.
<ErichEickmeyer> So feel free to find a spot.
<ErichEickmeyer> Or make a spot.
<tsimonq2> OK, sure.
<ErichEickmeyer> There's pages full of stuff that was never finished ([insert to-do item here]) that I'm half tempted to just delete and start over.
<ErichEickmeyer> The term "distro reboot" that I said halfway in passing a couple months ago (that omgubuntu caught) seems like it keeps getting more and more apt.
<tsimonq2> hehe
<ErichEickmeyer> No pun intended. ;)
 * ErichEickmeyer just noticed the Plymouth theme hasn't been touched in 9 years. :S
 * ErichEickmeyer might play around with it
<ErichEickmeyer> Ah, because there's literally nothing in it. :P
<cyphermox> ErichEickmeyer: fyi, if you need sponsoring for uploads, don't hesitate to ping me
<ErichEickmeyer> cyphermox: Awesome! Yeah, we definitely need that. We're making a bunch of changes to several packages and even looking to add some. For instance, OvenWerks is working on a Plasma metapackage for our first additional desktop environment, so that will be a thing.
<cyphermox> ErichEickmeyer: ok
<cyphermox> I can't guarantee that I always can respond /immediately/, but I'll do my best to help you out
<cyphermox> I suspect tsimonq2 will be happy to upload what he can too, and you should feel free to ask for help in #ubuntu-devel whenever
 * cyphermox successfully thew tsimonq2 under the bus ;)
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: I don't care. ;)
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: But I might conveniently ask for a peer review on a package with a 2000 line diff. >_>
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: cool cool
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: fwiw, it was a joke, don't feel like you must sponsor anything
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: Yeah, I know. :)
<ErichEickmeyer> cyphermox: Same, I don't always respond immediately.
<studio-devel293> hello
<studio-devel293> is there anybudy?
<ErichEickmeyer> studio-devel293: What's up?
<studio-devel293> I'm Alex, and I like ubuntu studio, I'm guitar player and music producer, ubutu studio is the best way to make music...   and I'm a dba at work, how can I help or contribute to the distro
<studio-devel293> ?
<ErichEickmeyer> Well, Alex, thanks for your interest! There's tons of ways to contribute. Do you have any experinence with documentation, artwork, or packaging?
<ErichEickmeyer> Also see http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute
<studio-devel293> some times i did it, art work, documentation and packaging, today Im a a database administrator at work
<studio-devel293> i did read it
<ErichEickmeyer> Best thing you can do is subscribe to our developer mailing list (http://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-studio-devel) and introduce yourself there, and let us know what you're interested in doing. The first step for anything is to create a Launchpad account at http://launchpad.net and also registering a permanent IRC handle here on Freenode.
<ErichEickmeyer> So, those are your first steps. I'd help more, but I need to head to work in short order.
<studio-devel293> thank you, go ahead!!
<ErichEickmeyer> Thanks! Welcome!
<nirvale> I'm Alex again!!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-15
<eagles0513875> hi hi 
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: heyo
<eagles0513875> :D
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: Nice! Welcome!
<eagles0513875> :) ya so i dunno this cycle how good of a contributor i will be to be fair
<ErichEickmeyer> Don't worry about your wedding, we wouldn't meet that week anyhow. Besides, even I'm away at a summer camp that week.
<eagles0513875> at the rate im going with hyper-v on this windows gaming tower im going to run into issues getting ubuntu installed on a hyper-v vm that should be interesting 
<ErichEickmeyer> That's fine. I was just browsing the code on -welcome and realized I hadn't fixed the debian control file yet. heh.
<eagles0513875> this is my gaming rig and im doing my mcsa so i am using hyper-v to learn on 
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: i have loads to learn 
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: do you really think a 6 month release with LTS support every 2 years is a good time frame to release a top notch product
<eagles0513875> and 5 year LTS support
<eagles0513875> compared to centos for example with 10 year support per release
<eagles0513875> the only preoccupation and then i need to bounce to be fair is the release time lines every 6 months
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: Not really my call, that's 100% Canonical. There are no Canonical employees working on Studio.
<eagles0513875> stupid question love me hate me then why not fork and rebrand it under a different name
<ErichEickmeyer> Because then we lose the server backend and sponsorship that Canonical provides.
<ErichEickmeyer> And, we wouldn't be able to use the Ubuntu name, which is powerful.
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: understood.
<eagles0513875> anyway for now im going to bounce
<ErichEickmeyer> Alright! Welcome aboard!
<eagles0513875> thanks
<eagles0513875> OvenWerks: hey mate just reading your email now
<eagles0513875> OvenWerks: so what you are saying i can install debian for example if im not mistaken even ubuntu is supported on the linux subsystem for windows and work wiht that even though its with out a ui?
<eagles0513875> OvenWerks: feel free to copy and paste my comments on to the email and reply on the thread as i need to bounce
<OvenWerks> eagles0513875: I think you would need the ui for that particular application (Welcome) as it would be hard to work on otherwise :)
<OvenWerks> I do not know if it is possible to work on a ubuntu/debian application from the gnu framework within windows.
<ErichEickmeyer> Considering it's an app tied to the UI, it wouldn't be possible.
<OvenWerks> Because this is a SW installation program, it needs to know what is now installed where repos are etc.
<OvenWerks> There are certain ubuntu/debian utilities it would expect to be hanging around like apt for example.
<OvenWerks> (maybe bash and other basic things too)
<ErichEickmeyer> Hey OvenWerks, do you have a moment to look at Bug 1633913? It was a critical bug in Lubuntu so I marked it as a critical bug for us.
<ubottu> bug 1633913 in ubuntustudio-meta "lubuntu and ubuntustudio are missing pool; can not install without internet connection" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633913
<OvenWerks> I am not sure.
<OvenWerks> I have as yet been unable to find where their fix was made, everything about the lubuntu package sends me to the ubuntu package :P
<OvenWerks>  I will look some more though. It is probably in their seeds package and the fix is a year old.
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: Do you have any insight on that bug?
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: im back OvenWerks im back as well
<eagles0513875> OvenWerks: your email got me thinking :) about something might be able to setup something on a provider i use need to confirm something
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: and OvenWerks figured out what i can use for my dev environment
<eagles0513875> have you guys heard of linode
<eagles0513875> hey tsimonq2 been a while mate
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: wb! I'm about to head out the door to take the dog for a walk and then run some errands.
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: hopefully we can chat this weekend or some time as i have some ideas i want to run by you from what we spoke about before
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: tsimonq2 is helping us get back on our feet after Studio had a near-death experience.
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer, tsimonq2: and i know each other :)
<tsimonq2> eagles0513875: OH HEY :)
<tsimonq2> Long time no see!
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: Same! Makes me surprised we've never crossed paths!
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, g2g
<ErichEickmeyer> bbl
<eagles0513875> tsimonq2: joining the party and helping out here
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: 
<eagles0513875> really quick
<eagles0513875> https://www.linode.com/docs/networking/using-the-linode-graphical-shell-glish/ and OvenWerks :D 
<eagles0513875> linode ftw love those guys and host all my infra on them : )
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: You'd be looking in the seed for that one.
<eagles0513875> so might get a vm going with ubuntu server and install ubuntu studio
<ErichEickmeyer> eagles0513875: Nice! Not a bad way to work on stuff!
<eagles0513875> exactly :)
<ErichEickmeyer> anyhow, bbl
<eagles0513875> heck they even have block storage so do all your work on the block storage and you can have your dev environment al lthere all your files source code etc
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: Ya, it looks like you were the one who fixed lubuntu :)
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: It's a seed issue.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I am looking at the git repo for lubuntu seeds
<OvenWerks> I am not sure which commit fixed this issue though
<OvenWerks> https://git.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/lubuntu/commit/?id=f39c7b82337754ecfb44731136cdd13a4b44f042 maybe?
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I looked at lubuntu's fix for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/1633913 and it does not look like the same fix would be aplicable to Studio from what I can tell. But I am not in any way good at seeds.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633913 in ubuntustudio-meta "lubuntu and ubuntustudio are missing pool; can not install without internet connection" [Critical,Confirmed]
<OvenWerks> In fact after looking at our seeds some more I am thinking that if we want more than one ISO produced, we don't create a second seed, but add file and entries to the one we have.
<OvenWerks> before I mess around any more... I need to read some documentation
<eagles0513875> ErichEickmeyer: im not going anywhere aparently
<eagles0513875> guys got a stupid question is there a meta package for studio?
<tsimonq2> eagles0513875: There is.
<eagles0513875> excellent :)
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: I'd have to dig more.
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Got a link to your seed?
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.xenial
<OvenWerks> um maybe something more recent than that?
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.cosmic
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: The bug was filed against xenial.
<krytarik> ErichEickmeyer, OvenWerks: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.artful/revision/1508 , https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline/revision/1665 - haven't read the whole log on it today yet, but I guess if someone was so inclined, they could try and backport the fix to Xenial.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: quite honestly, if it is fixed now, I am happy.
<ErichEickmeyer> IMO, we need to backport it to Xenial if we're still supporting it until April 2019.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I am not against fixing this just not willing to spend my personal time on it.
 * ErichEickmeyer grumbles about how specific the changelog format is.
<OvenWerks> use dch
<OvenWerks> well that doesn't do everything just right either
<OvenWerks> starting after a release needs a tweak
<OvenWerks> releasing needs a tweak too as the tools are debian based not ubuntu based.
<OvenWerks> but everything in between is easy :)
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I don't mind manually typing it, but dang! Miss one space and BAM! Fail.
<krytarik> I see you guys keep on adding new changelog sections (with a release set) on top of unreleased ones.
<OvenWerks> thas prolly me.
<OvenWerks> When I started, the release didn't make it in there unless the package was actually uploaded
<OvenWerks> that doesn't seem to be happening
<tsimonq2> Right, I was going to work on a packaging policy...
<tsimonq2> hmm
<OvenWerks> normally the package remains UNRELEASED untill someone with upload rights is about to actually upload something
<tsimonq2> Indeed.
<OvenWerks> Then the UNRELEASED is replaced by the cycle name it is released to.
 * tsimonq2 nods
<OvenWerks> so -menu needs to have the changelog fixed
<OvenWerks> -icon-theme is ok so long as it really gets actually released :)
<OvenWerks> -defaull-settings needs a fix too.
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just fixed it.
<ErichEickmeyer> Er, -menu
<ErichEickmeyer> Am I screwing up the changelogs?!?
<ErichEickmeyer> If so, how?
<OvenWerks> if the is a section that is UNRELEASED your changes go in that section.
<tsimonq2> You're starting a new entry when there's already one as UNRELEASED.
<tsimonq2> Yeah.
<tsimonq2> :)
<OvenWerks> when the package is ready to be released the section on top with the UNRELEASED has the word UNRELEASED replaced with cosmic
<tsimonq2> (via dch -r)
<OvenWerks> right, but with cosmic as the relaese rather than whatever debian word is default
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: take a look at the changelog for -look
<tsimonq2> Not really; if you're on Ubuntu it should DTRT automatically.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: it could be I remember from years gone by
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Out of curiosity, how extensive is your packaging experience?
<tsimonq2> :)
<OvenWerks> very small
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looking.
<tsimonq2> Mind if I type up a small packaging guide with best practices?
<OvenWerks> I have only done the meta/settings packages Studio ships.
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: Go for it.
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: Cool.
<OvenWerks> I would welocome that
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, so don't bump the version number with a minor change, such as an icon?
<OvenWerks> only bump the version if there is a real release with upload
<OvenWerks> to fix what we have will probably require skipping a version.
 * ErichEickmeyer facepalms
<tsimonq2> I doubt it.
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, sorry for screwing everything up.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: You're fine. :)
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: well it will if we want to keep our auto builds working right :)
<tsimonq2> Oh.
<tsimonq2> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: you haven't learned anything if you don't make mistakes.
<tsimonq2> I wouldn't personally worry about that; just delete the packages in the PPA.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: right, that makes sense too.
<tsimonq2> Also, I haven't seen anyone do it yet, but whatever you do, NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER use epochs if you screw up the version number. :)
<tsimonq2> Epochs Are Evil. :P
<OvenWerks> epocs?
<ErichEickmeyer> epochs?
<tsimonq2> If you put e.g. "1:" at the beginning of the version number, that's an epoch.
<tsimonq2> It basically resets the version number.
<tsimonq2> So if you do e.g. 0.103 as an upload, you can't go down. You'd have to do 1:0.1
<tsimonq2> But AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS. :)
<OvenWerks> why not 1.0?
<tsimonq2> Exactly.
<OvenWerks> one wants to keep a reasonable history
<ErichEickmeyer> Gotta go guys. Dinner with the fam.
<tsimonq2> o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-16
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks, ErichEickmeyer: Some rough notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackagingPractices
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: you are aware that pretty much none of us have upload rights.
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: I do. :)
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: And I'd like to get some people to have upload rights.
<OvenWerks> makes sense
<tsimonq2> I can work with one or more of you, depending on interest, to get PPU or MOTU.
<tsimonq2> I mean, that also depends if you have a wider interest or if you just want to contribute to Studio stuff.
<tsimonq2> One route, especially given that you're going to have a Plasma spin, is to become a Kubuntu Developer.
<tsimonq2> That would get you (or whoever) a solid foundation of skills to build off of.
<tsimonq2> With the Kubuntu CI, it's a fairly low-stress training ground. :)
<OvenWerks> I have only so much time, I have already taken enough time away from my primary focus that I will have to do a lot of reading to figure out where I left off.
<tsimonq2> OK.
<OvenWerks> I did want to get -controls to production ready and I think I have
<OvenWerks> It deals with the most common problem with audio these days, the dreaded USB mic
<tsimonq2> I'll be happy to sponsor and help with whatever, but I'm doing that under the assumption that one of you will either step up or find someone to step up. :)
<OvenWerks> Right, there are a new batch of people and I would like to see them begin to take over.
<tsimonq2> Awesome.
<OvenWerks> I am pretty much the only one left 14.*-ish everyone else is pretty much new
<OvenWerks> I would rather see mistakes and see people fixing them to learn
<tsimonq2> Right.
<OvenWerks> With regard to changing things over to git from bzr, is there some point where the main page of ubuntustudio-dev will point to git instead of bzr?
<OvenWerks>  Is that something I can change?
<OvenWerks> Oh wow! subuntustudio-dev has 101 members... something is not right.
<OvenWerks> Nope not directly, just 20
<OvenWerks> And they actually look reasonable.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: there are two copies of lp:ubuntustudio-icon-theme, one bzr and one git.
<OvenWerks> shouldn't lp:ubuntustudio-icon-theme only point to one of them?
<tsimonq2> No, the main page will always be Bazaqar.
<tsimonq2> *Bazaar
<tsimonq2> Only the Git copy of lp:ubuntustudio-icon-theme is valid from here on out.
<OvenWerks> even when everything is git?
<OvenWerks> so what happens when someone adds stuff to the bzr version?
<tsimonq2> Yeah, unfortunately.
<tsimonq2> Well, the Bazaar version should be deleted. :)
<OvenWerks> So is ubuntustudio-controls setup correctly or does it need a bzr page?
<tsimonq2> It should only be in Git.
<tsimonq2> But otherwise I'm not sure what you mean.
<OvenWerks> it is only git
<tsimonq2> OK, good.
<OvenWerks> I deleted the bzr part
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<OvenWerks> but the one I am more worried about is lp:ubuntustudio-icon-theme 
<tsimonq2> I'd just delete the Bazaar branch.
<OvenWerks> I could delete the bzr version of that too
<tsimonq2> Vcs-* in the packaging is already updated.
<OvenWerks> OK that just worked.
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/+git/ubuntustudio-controls needs to be released/uploaded as well.
<tsimonq2> OK.
<tsimonq2> I'll review it in a sec.
<OvenWerks> Ity would be ok to shrink the changelog I think.
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm back.
<ErichEickmeyer> Just caught up and it looks like everything got cleaned up?
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: not yet but I am working on -settings right now
<ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
<OvenWerks> That leaves menu if you wish to look at it
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: controls> looking
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, I'll look at menu. Still bzr on that one?
<OvenWerks> tes
<tsimonq2> This packaging needs a bit of a touchup.
<tsimonq2> What can I put as a "homepage"?
<OvenWerks> it is a part of ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio.org?
<tsimonq2> wfm
<tsimonq2> y u no use HTTPS :P
<tsimonq2> er...
<tsimonq2> http:// -> https:// redir isn't there.
<OvenWerks> I have not been a part of web page development at all
<OvenWerks> so I don't know
<ErichEickmeyer> tsimonq2: We don't exactly have much control over the backend on that.
<tsimonq2> Oh?
<ErichEickmeyer> I can access the Wordpress admin areas, but as far as doing anything like https we're between a rock and a hard place. We're also trying to update the theme to something eylul made (and the link escapse me atm).
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<ErichEickmeyer> But, we can't upload anything directly.
<tsimonq2> Does Canonical host it?
<ErichEickmeyer> I believe so.
<ErichEickmeyer> Apparently, someone wouldn't give anybody but sakrecoer access to the backend, which is problematic now that he's no longer participating.
<tsimonq2> If Canonical hosts it, email rt@ubuntu.com or talk to someone in #canonical-sysadmin.
<tsimonq2> They can help.
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, I'll see what I can do.
<tsimonq2> Cool.
<ErichEickmeyer> The big problem is that the Ubuntu Studio Council hasn't been officially announced yet (along with sakrecoer officially stepping-down), which would be the handoff, so I'm not sure how much authority I have in that channel. Probably best to email.
<tsimonq2> controls> Fixed everything I could spot; running through sbuild now to catch the things I missed.
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<OvenWerks> :)
<tsimonq2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MBhBpDpPJg/
<tsimonq2> That's my pedantic Lintian runthrough.
<tsimonq2> I'll push what I have now so you can season to taste.
<tsimonq2> I mean, it seems you still have init.d scripts in here... ;)
<ErichEickmeyer> Okay, just pushed the changelog fix for -menu.
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer: I'll take a look as soon as I'm done sifting through this.
<tsimonq2> So, python-script-but-no-python-dep is pretty easy.
<tsimonq2> If it starts with "I:" you're safe to ignore it. If it starts with "W:", red flag but not critical. If it starts with "E:" then it's a must fix.
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks, ErichEickmeyer: If you fix what you can, that'd be great (specifically, init.d scripts and .desktop files). I can polish once the errors are gone.
<tsimonq2> Looking at menu.
<ErichEickmeyer> I'll go ahead and go through the packages. Lesson learned: don't use Dolphin to browse the files. XD
<ErichEickmeyer> (makes .desktop files)
<tsimonq2> hehe
<tsimonq2> Hm, let me convert -menu to Git for you...
<OvenWerks>  tsimonq2: ok I will revisit -controls next.
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Thanks!
<OvenWerks> I have converted default-settings to git and now will upload.
<tsimonq2> ...upload or push? :)
<OvenWerks> push
<tsimonq2> ah
<OvenWerks> there it is.
<tsimonq2> Could ACLs please be changed so I can push to git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu ?
<OvenWerks> if you push it it should end up on ubuntustudio-core then gets moved to dev
<ErichEickmeyer> Standby...
<OvenWerks> what is ALCS
<tsimonq2> Access Control List.
<tsimonq2> ACLs is the plural form of that.
<OvenWerks> which acl do I need to change?... what page?
<tsimonq2> ErichEickmeyer had to do it yesterday for icons, I'm not sure what exactly he tweaked.
<ErichEickmeyer> Done
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<ErichEickmeyer> -lightdm-theme looks fine.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: it hasn't been touched for a year :)
<OvenWerks> oct 2016
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Saw that. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> menu is in git, default settings is in git.
<ErichEickmeyer> Everything else is pretty ancient.
<ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Thanks
<OvenWerks> maybe but may still be used.
<OvenWerks> I thik anything before 2016 is not used, but I am not sure of that... just on a quick look.
<tsimonq2> -menu is ready to upload imho.
<ErichEickmeyer> Well, -installer, -meta, and -live?
<tsimonq2> Am I welcome to do it?
<OvenWerks> yes
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/0.27
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm having trouble getting git-remote-bzr to download a bzr repo.
<tsimonq2> How so?
<ErichEickmeyer> Nm, I had an extra character.
<ErichEickmeyer> Wait.. no, failed.
<ErichEickmeyer> bzrlib.errors.NotBranchError: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu-studio-lightdm-theme/".
<tsimonq2> What's the exact command you're running?
<ErichEickmeyer> git clone "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme/" and it finally worked.
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<ErichEickmeyer> -lightdm-theme now converted to git
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: -controls should have less lintian problems now
<OvenWerks> there is no man page right now, but we need testing through this cycle to make sure things work
<ErichEickmeyer> -look is taking a long time to download, but I'm working on it.
<OvenWerks> yes look has big images in it
<ErichEickmeyer> Makes sense. It provides a few packages including the wallpapers.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: the init.d script was a left over from earlier days. There is also a /lib/systemd/ubuntustudio which does things now.
<OvenWerks>  So I just removed it. I cleaned up the desktop file by adding Keywords (not needed but gnome likes them) and added the python depends.
<OvenWerks> python is going to give us problems down the road I can tell... py3 has no dbus structure that I can find.
<OvenWerks> hm maybe not, just found some docs... 
<tsimonq2> OK
 * tsimonq2 has to go to bed.
<eagles0513875> morning
<ErichEickmeyer> Off to bed with me, but OvenWerks, tsimonq2: Take a look at -look (heh), I seem to be unable to delete the bzr branch, which is making the autobuild recipe default back to bzr instead of git.
<krytarik> "bzr-builder"
 * tsimonq2 kicks krytarik 
<tsimonq2> Bad. :P
<krytarik> Watcha wan!? :D
<ErichEickmeyer> It seems as though without a revision bump on -lightdm-theme that it's going to fail no matter what.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: that could be.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: it may be bumping the bzr back a few would fix it
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I think I got -lightdm-theme
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: any of the auto builds with the same version number+bzr will work by changing to +git
<OvenWerks> once we have a release, we can remove the +git and the first commit after should just work :)
<OvenWerks> launchpad git support is still not there...
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: I am working on adding man pages to -controls so maybe wait on releasing it till I am done.
<tsimonq2> Sure.
<ErichEickmeyer> Was anybody able to take a look at -look and see what's preventing the deletion of the bzr repo?
<ErichEickmeyer> I'm stumped.
<OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: doesn't matter
<ErichEickmeyer> Well, the recipe won't take the git version, so the daily builds are pulling from bzr.
<OvenWerks> are you sure? I thought I fixed that
<OvenWerks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild
<OvenWerks> has two git builds
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+recipe/ubuntustudio-look-daily has the new recipe
<ErichEickmeyer> Oh, that was after I asked earlier. Failed to see you were talking about -look and then switched to -lightdm-theme
<OvenWerks> lightdm is done too.
<OvenWerks> I basically looked at any that were blocked and fixed them
<ErichEickmeyer> My bad. Either way, I think that means all of our pertinant packages are moved to git?
<OvenWerks> yes
<ErichEickmeyer> Perfect.
<OvenWerks> launchpad is not yet finished... what I found was that if trunk is set the recipe doesn't work.
<OvenWerks> trunk can't be set to a git repo
<ErichEickmeyer> I think it's a mere difference in nomenclature. bzr trunk = git master
<ErichEickmeyer> I could be wrong.
<OvenWerks> on this page (for example) https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls
<OvenWerks> under series and mile stones if you click on truck it says "You haven't yet told Launchpad where your source code is for ubuntustudio-controls trunk series."
<OvenWerks> If you try to set it, you can't because it only accepts bzr projects... the only git part will import the git repo to a bzr repo
<OvenWerks> This probably means the history will not work right either
<ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I see that. Launchpad just has a ways to go for that.
<ErichEickmeyer> I wonder if tsimonq2 has any insight on this.
<tsimonq2> ENOTMYDEPARTMENT
<tsimonq2> :)
<OvenWerks> Well when we were first talking about git it seems to me a heard or read that the launchpad swtich over to git is not complete
<tsimonq2> Ask cjwatson or wgrant in #launchpad
<OvenWerks> anyway, tsimonq2 I have uploaded -controls with man pages. there should be only 1 or 2 things on the list like .git directories not covered.
<OvenWerks> it is now using all python3 instead of python for some things and python3 for others
<tsimonq2> OK, I won't be at a computer until Monday though.
<OvenWerks> not a problem
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-17
<Eickmeyer> FYI everybody, changed my nick. I don't know if "you're welcome" is in order, but you're welcome.
<eagles0513875> hey Eickmeyer :D
<OvenWerks> !ru
<ubottu> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-10
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That good! 
 * Eickmeyer was out of town overnight, just got back
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> While the magnifier is not necessarily a useful tool for photographers or graphics artists, it IS an accesibility tool, and is actually useful for presentations/screencasting. so it would be a useful too
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> tool*
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu Cool. As soon as it hits the archive, I'll get it in the seed.
<studiobot> teward001 was added by: teward001
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu ^ This is @teward001 .
<studiobot> <teward001> *waves*
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> hi!
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Thomas might be able to answer some questions.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @teward001 alright so, we are basically trying to figure out who to contact, and what are the criteria we need to work with to upgrade our website. (and some other management tasks like ubuntustudio.org) emails. Our website is ancient, and last attempt to get it done was through the then lead, on an IS site I cannot quite remember a
<studiobot> nd the process got stalled. :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @Eickmeyer was hoping you could perhaps direct us at least in right direction? :)
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> RT has been useless.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> Erich you tried that route again?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Yes. Nothing.
<studiobot> <teward001> was the site hosted by Canonical?
<studiobot> <teward001> or is it some other group who ran it initially?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Currently is hosted by Canonical.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I don't think it was ever hosted anywhere else, the domain is def registered to Canonical.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> It is hosted by canonical. We might be amenable to move the hosting, but we also don't know who to contact for that.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I'd like to move the hosting only as a last resort.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *agrees, but also has some potential backup solutions if it becomes absolutely necessary*
<studiobot> <teward001> NORMALLY I poke Canonical IS on these things directly via IRC, to expedite issues, but if you have tried that with RT tickets and its gone nowhere I mean it'd probably be prudent to *move* to another system
<studiobot> <teward001> I'd be happy to give you guys an IP and container space on my infra to run it even if needed
<studiobot> <teward001> I can try the route of prodding IS, and worst-case poking SABDFL but I'd like tokeep THAT part as a last resort ð
<studiobot> <teward001> if I go and prod IS on this I'd need details to provide to them
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *looks at @Eickmeyer* what do you want to do?
<studiobot> * Eickmeyer is reading and processing
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Let's go one step at a time. Let's prod IS, then if that fails, we should probably prod SABDFL. If that goes nowhere, then we should move the site.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (what is SABDFL?)
<studiobot> <teward001> SABDFL = Mark Shuttleworth
<studiobot> <teward001> and I only bother Mark when all else fails
<studiobot> <teward001> BUT it's gotten me fast direct email routes to get support when things're totally in need of fixing
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *nods* I think what I want to know is if we are somehow ignored for some reason, or just workload. So IRC might be a good place to attempt to reassablish relationships because I think at this point we need a conversation, not tickets.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> o.O
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I didn't even know that was an option
<studiobot> <teward001> I would point out that it's likely workload
<studiobot> <teward001> there's only a few IS guys that I've seen around
<studiobot> <teward001> and they manage ALL of the infra
<studiobot> <teward001> this IS why all the Lubuntu infra is not actually run by Canonical
<studiobot> <teward001> and run by external services
<studiobot> <teward001> (with sysadmin bootprints from me all over things)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> well I also assumed it might be ignored because there was a break on ownership switch.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Lubuntu infra is run by Altispeed.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> a few years ago, and Erich is still cleaning that.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep, but with my boots all over the config and sysadmin ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> i'm kiiiinda the unofficial sysadmin for the Lubuntu Infra ð
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :)
<studiobot> <teward001> but IS knows my name pretty frequently, if you want me to prod them
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> So, @teward001, if you want, feel free to bug IS on this. I'd like to make this as hospitable to the designers as possible for the new theme.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer do we have an existing ticket # I can reference?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I don't remember, @azbulutlu , do you have that?
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> oh goodness
<studiobot> <teward001> if not we'll have to start a new ticket chain likely since nobody from IS is on the "Ping For Assitance" list right now on IRC
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I can dig it up possibly if I can remember where the RT site is
<studiobot> <teward001> but i'm a nasty evil nagging person as you know well so I never let up :P
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> but at this point I would suggest making a fresh ticket
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> because.... 3 years? more?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001. that's your strength. :)
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I agree, let's move forward with a new ticket.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (also I am not joking can somebody please remind me where the canonical ticketing system is url-wise?) and I will suggest we do lurk in IRC (if it is polite to do so)
<studiobot> <teward001> https://rt.ubuntu.com
<studiobot> <teward001> and i regularly lurk on IRC
<studiobot> <teward001> but email to rt@ubuntu.com makes tickets faster
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> As do I.
<studiobot> <teward001> and I lurk in [#]canonical-sysadmin regularly :P
<studiobot> <teward001> also if you do it the email route and want to include me on replies, cc me.  but that's your choice :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> Erich I have a suggestion. How about we initially contact them to create an email alias for you, and if possible an email for social media accounts. as those are two immediate things that is needed.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu If you would like, would you draft an email explaining the situation in detail that I can then forward to RT (with my name, since that has a little clout as a flavor lead)? Also, I'll CC @teward001 .
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> You have a little more history on this than I do and I'd be fumbling around what to say.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I can do that.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> or put a ticket. your choice let me see btw if I can find the ANCIENT ticket xD
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Cool. eeickmeyer@ubuntu.com works fine for me.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> alright
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> btw https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=20726
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> this is not the ticket but this is another ticket
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> seriously. new ticket possibly with requests to close previous tickets
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's a good idea. That has zequence all over it and I'd rather not associate the project with him anymore.
<studiobot> <teward001> i was going to say if that's the ticket nobody ever replied to it :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> that is not the one
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I think that one vanished.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> actually rewind.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I found the ticket. *laughs*
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29028
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> but no I suggest we create a new ticket, and ask them to close ancient ones.
<studiobot> <teward001> last activity 2016, yeah new ticket time.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (I am a bit impressed it is still there to be honest) anyhow I'll email erich and I assume he will keep you in loop about this.
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
<studiobot> <teward001> Erich knows how to reach me in multiple ways so if you want to keep me in the loop let me know.
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll check back and such occasionally as well :)
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: What about here?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Test
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> thanks @teward001! :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> test works
<krytarik> Eickmeyer: Dark grey. :3
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Sweet. Our nicks were looking white on IRC. I kicked the bot.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @krytarik: That's better than white.
<krytarik> Well, I guess that depends on the background color of your client.. :P  Doesn't work so well on black, as in terminal client.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> krytarik: Now it should be good.
<studiobot> * Eickmeyer disabled the colors
<krytarik> Yeah, but I guess.. yup!  Which of course is now even worse than before. :P
<veremitz> ah have we sanitised the bot? Ihad to turn off colours also ..
<Eickmeyer> Hopefully.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Welcome?
<teward> *waves*
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<ubuntustudiosuck> .
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
<teward> o... kay then?
<Eickmeyer> Uh, wow.
<teward> *yawns* well now you guys can reach me at TWO locations now, both IRC and Telegram :)
<teward> (this way I'm always in the loop :P)
<Eickmeyer> teward: True. @azbutulu: teward is here.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> er... typo.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu ^
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> good to know thanks :) I'll try to fix my IRC so that I am in there properly
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu And seeing as how it's nearly midnight where you are...
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> its alright. I have a lot to do before sleeping time.
<Eickmeyer> And we'll all just pretend we didn't see the drive-by nick spamming.
<Eickmeyer> teward: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=33587
<Eickmeyer> Apparently it ate the CC fields.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> Hi! â¦ I am contacting you on behalf of the Ubuntu Studio team. We would like to create a team inbox or alias at social@ubuntustudio.org, if at all possible. This will be used to maintain social media accounts of the team when team accounts is not possible on the platform (e.g. mastodon).  â¦ Thanks in advance.  â¦ Best â¦ Eylul
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @eeickmeyer
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @eickmeyer *
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Yep, saw.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 ^
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> that looks good?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu That works.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @teward001 https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=33588
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Consecutive numbers. I like it.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-11
 * Eickmeyer is upgrading to eoan
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
<studiobot> <teward001> i got busy sorry for not replying sooner
<studiobot> <teward001> @EIch
<studiobot> <teward001> there is a 'poke' :P
<teward> Eickmeyer: ^
<teward> (Telegram is annoying sometimes)
<Eickmeyer> teward: I saw the "sizable bribe of coffee". Would you like that in bean form, pre-ground, or are we talking brewed?
 * Eickmeyer lives in what could be considered the coffee capital of America
<teward> lol
<teward> that was me just stating I'm a consistent caffeine addict :P
<teward> which is not news to ANYONE in the Ubuntu world
<teward> sarnold can confirm that :p
<teward> Eickmeyer: but yes, i told you i'd prod, I'm prodding
<teward> Thou hast unleashed The Beast.  :P
<Eickmeyer> Hehehehehe!
<Eickmeyer> The Coffee Cracken
<Eickmeyer> Koffee Kracken?
<Eickmeyer> Either one will get misspelt for alliteration reasons.
<studiobot> <teward001> heh
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: IMO, we can't support custom pulse configs. I think they're trying to call us out on something. If they know so much about pulse, they should've been able to figure it out themselves.
<OvenWerks> I think he has copied a recipe from somewhere.
<Eickmeyer> And then claimed to have a deep understanding of pulse.
<studiobot> <teward001> @azbulutlu I did an evil and poked Canonical IS and Eickmeyer was talking with them :)
<studiobot> <teward001> (so things're being poked now)
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll let @Eickmeyer explain the rest.
<studiobot> <teward001> *disappearifies to go find another drink*
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 She's asleep, likely. 5:12AM her time.
<studiobot> <teward001> i know, but they'll see the heads up later ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> i'm headed off myself i'm dead tired... and slightly drunk.
<studiobot> <teward001> so :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: BTW, I did learn from all this pulse stuff that it looks like bluetooth is separate from udev
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That does explain the BT audio with Jack issue people have.
<OvenWerks> actually it doesn't. The bt modules are still loaded evenb if udev is not.
<Eickmeyer> Well, that blows that theory. :P
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @teward001 @Eickmeyer  \o/
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu So basically social@ forwards to you and me. We can set up a team in Launchpad that gets an email address it can foward to, which then forwards to those email addresses. For now, though, this works.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> my main concern for mailing lists is that it tends to have a public archive somewhere
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> otherwise it is probably trivial to create  a ubuntustudio communication team to deal with it. :)
<teward> @azbulutlu I mean, you could deploy a PRIVATE listserv instance that we/you would control, private lists are a thing then
<teward> for example lubuntu council's list is 'private' archived you need a PW to see those
<teward> but you'd need a private list at that point
<teward> it MIGHT be possible to have IS spin up some private lists on lists.u.c
<teward> but... :P
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: New LMMS released: https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30408  (probably still stuck in lv1 past)
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> I heard that a new one was released
<OvenWerks> 1.2 it says.
<OvenWerks> and yes there is no mention of LV2s in the release notes
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> Very hard for me to test though. It's workflow is such that I open it up and my mind goes "ok, now what?"
<Eickmeyer> Haha, same.
<Eickmeyer> RE: HiDeHo: becoming a help vampire quickly.
<OvenWerks> I did not see anything in there for direct audio recording either which I would consider more important than lv2 hosting
<Eickmeyer> For me, LMMS is a non-starter. But you KNOW someone's going to be like, "Why isn't this included in Ubuntu Studio?!?"
<Eickmeyer> I'd just as soon demote it to repo-only. :P
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *uses lmms and loves it*
<OvenWerks> re: HiDeHo, it might be a reasonable idea to have a known way of using the file manager in "system mode"
<OvenWerks> azbulutlu: you are not the only one.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @teward001 @eickmeyer I think the current setup is fine. the point is, if tomorrow me and erich gets hit by a bus, someone can contact the IS to take over that email address alias, and add people into it. which is the point.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: there are a number of people who love LMMS and look at it and just go. the workflow is quite obvious to many people
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> it is very familiar if you want to work with midi based loops. so if you are coming from a commercial software like logic pro... I am also planning to learn to use ardour better, its just for different things. :)
<OvenWerks> azbulutlu: Yes, qtracktor doesn't seem to fill that void either as it is also quite linear
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> (btw mastodon account is now tied to the social@, and it should also now email nag if someone replies/mentions ubuntustudio. (I don't have email notifications on for follows, but I can turn that on too.. )
<studiobot> <teward001> @azbulutlu [@teward001 @eickmeyer I think the current setup is fine. the point is, if tomorr â¦], right, but i'm not on the team.  my connectivity is peripheral
 * OvenWerks comes from a band oriented, analog in background and started recording with tape
<studiobot> <teward001> so I can't really take over unless the Ubuntu STudio team designated me as an official person to do that
<studiobot> <teward001> I just know who to stab on IS :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> well whoever becomes the lead probably can override that
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <teward001> that's why @Eickmeyer's requests carry weight
<studiobot> <teward001> I just know who to poke to expedite things ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> learned that a lot over the few years
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> :) well I am really trying to make sure that whoever ends up the next lead never has the issues Set and Erich ran into
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 is my desginated cattle prod.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> OvenWerks: yeah qtracktor I believe has some limitations. I was literally taught how to compose music using loops so... *shrugs* :)
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> >.> that is bit disturbing way to frame it
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer nah, you just ask and I deliver because we ALL know I'm a persistent SOB
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> well it is much appreciated.
<studiobot> <teward001> and you saw even Seth said as much in canonical-sysadmin yesterday xD
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 [@Eickmeyer nah, you just ask and I deliver because we ALL know I'm a persistent â¦], Ha! true.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ahahah
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 [and you saw even Seth said as much in canonical-sysadmin yesterday xD], Yes. That was hilarious. "Can confirm." *runs*
<OvenWerks> I think I was the one who originally suggested LMMS should be included... even though I never use it and don't really know how to even test it.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I think it being added predates me joining the team yes. *laughs*
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *in all fairness hasn't done music stuff in last year much*
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It can stick around, I was being facetious.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> *but will soon have to*
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer [Yes. That was hilarious. "Can confirm." *runs*], I bother sarnold REGULARLY for nginx security concerns, so that's where Seth is coming from there :P
<studiobot> <teward001> (in case Eickmeyer never shared, I do a LOT of Server Team interactions, esp. NGINX related)
<studiobot> <teward001> (it's how I know my things xD)
<Eickmeyer> Back later, I have to get my son off to school.
 * OvenWerks just left... thankfully on his own steam.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> xD
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> @teward001 i think one of you mentioned earlier, but thank you truly!
<studiobot> <teward001> you're welcome :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-12
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Any ideas on bug 1832651?
<ubottu> bug 1832651 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "jackdbus fails to start: cannot allocate memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832651
<Eickmeyer> Bug report mentions -controls.
<Eickmeyer> Nm, upon investigation, it's a systemd bug.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-13
<OvenWerks> systemd, wayland... lets make things more secure :P
<Eickmeyer> Hehehe
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Have you ever run into the problem he's describing?
<OvenWerks> I haven't run 19.04 enough to find it maybe? I did tgry jack I think...
<OvenWerks> I did actually install and run 19.04... but not sure if I only did Studio on top on plasma or studio ISO too
<Eickmeyer> Well, I've been running 19.04 for a while now, no issues here.
<Eickmeyer> In fact, I just upgraded to Eoan, which isn't too far removed, and still no issues.
<OvenWerks> I did load eoan (studio ISO) and had no problems there
<Eickmeyer> I have the feeling this guy had an installation error or carried-over a configuration from somewhere he's not talking about.
<OvenWerks> That was my first thought as well
<OvenWerks> It is hard enough helping someone while looking at their computer... IRC always makes me feel I am missing something.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. He's asking for a workaround, and I'm like,  Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> There are a number of ways to load an ISO to thumb drive, I know in the past some of them haven't worked. I also know that rebooting too soon after loading the iso to the USB drive can result in bad things too.
<Eickmeyer> There's a number of things that could be wrong here.
<Eickmeyer> But a bug report is no place for tech support.
<Eickmeyer> Especially if it's valid, which this one is.
<OvenWerks> dd seems to be the safest I have found so far... well safest for a correct usb install... not safest from the hey if you dd to your HD it is finished POV :)
<Eickmeyer> There's a couple of GUI USB creators that work pretty well. On Windows: Rufus. Ubuntu (proper) installs one by default.
<Eickmeyer> As does Kubuntu.
<OvenWerks> we used to as well... then it stopped working
<OvenWerks> or rather it works for the cycle but not for an iso in the next cycle (back when it was dropped)
<Eickmeyer> That may still be the case, but I don't know. Haven't done it enough. I have a hard drive enclosure that emulates a CD drive using .iso files.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we should maybe blacklist timidity (if it isn't already)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: also add to the trouble shooting guide to check if ps x |timidity shows timidity is running
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: also timidity should be listed as a known problem
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack
<OvenWerks> timidity should probably not be a depend in anything :)
<Eickmeyer> I'll investigate.
<OvenWerks> if you show reverse depends in synaptic, the list is long.
<Eickmeyer> Yikes.
<OvenWerks> it even shows the two fluidsynth-sound fonts
<OvenWerks> (so not all the depnds are hard, they may be recomends)
<OvenWerks> I think they should be downgraded to suggests as many sw loaders auto load recomends
<OvenWerks> I remember having this problem... years ago.
<Eickmeyer> I'm trying to figure out where tidmidity got installed from anyways. I don't have it installed, which means it's not pulled-in with disco or eoan.
<OvenWerks> No, it must be something he installed. A game or something like that
<OvenWerks> or it could be an artifact of the upgrade process.
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll just add it to the release notes.
<Eickmeyer> All of this could've been figured out prior to release if people would just help with testing. >:(
<OvenWerks> installing random sw is generally not covered in iso testing
<Eickmeyer> True.
<OvenWerks> timidity should have a dbus release this device built in (as pulse does). other wise it is bad (buggy?) sw
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Stinkin' old project, still actively developed: https://sourceforge.net/p/timidity/git/ci/master/tree/
<OvenWerks> timidity should be redesigned as a pulse module.
<OvenWerks> yes very old
<OvenWerks> from soundblaster days
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: for the release notes: "Timidity has been known to cause problems with audio configurations on Ubuntu and will lock-up ALSA."
<Eickmeyer> That's all I can think to put. We can't stop people from installing it, but we can warn them.
<OvenWerks> ya
<Eickmeyer> Done, and retroactively added to the release notes for Bionic and Cosmic.
<OvenWerks> perhaps add a feature request to -controls to detect timidity or other process that has devices locked.
<Eickmeyer> -controls got stuck in proposed. *sigh*
<Eickmeyer> Fixed the version number, uploaded it, hopefully that will fix it.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just figured it out. The version number won't fix it. It depends on Carla. Will have to move that to recommends since Carla won't build on ppc, arm, or s390x.
<Eickmeyer> Or, something.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so should the Carla button detect if Carla is installed?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That would be preferable.
<OvenWerks> Should pressing the button pop up a diolog "* not installed, Install now?"  ;)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's like you read my mind while I was using the washroom.
<OvenWerks> so we should look for both /usr/bin/carla and /usr/local/bin
<OvenWerks> That way someone who prefered to roll their own would not get left out.
<Eickmeyer> Good call. Will also work for fedora/arch/opensuse too (though, the only other build I know of is for arch).
<Eickmeyer> Could also just search $PATH
<OvenWerks> I would think there should already be a python call that does that
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm probably going to have to demote it to suggests. It's still shwing skipped.
<OvenWerks> re timidity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timidity/+bug/1793640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1793640 in timidity (Ubuntu) "Pulseaudio fails to detect sound card, while timidity is installed" [High,Triaged]
<OvenWerks> there is a debian fix, but it has not made it to ubuntu
<OvenWerks> This has been a bug since at least 2008 that has come and gone and come again.
<OvenWerks> In my opinion, the design of timidity is fundamentally flawed. It should in daemon mode, add a pseudo device that looks like hardware and responds like hardware and mixes application audio with it's own. Or if Pulse or jack are present it should become a client/module for which ever one holds the device.
<OvenWerks> The world has turned a few times since 1985.
<OvenWerks> actually probably some time in the 90s using OSS
<Eickmeyer> Yikes. Ancient stuff.
<OvenWerks> Last updates I can find are 2004 for timidity++
<OvenWerks> oops nope I found 2009
<OvenWerks> Oh, but the ubuntu package is 2004
<Eickmeyer> The ubuntu package is more recent than that. 
<Eickmeyer> The debian package was updated only last year, and it's a direct sync from that.
<OvenWerks> Maybe the home page this page points to is wrong then: https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/timidity
<Eickmeyer> Yes, it is.
<Eickmeyer> I researched it this morning.
<studiobot> <teward001> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timidity is where you want to poke though to see when the last package revision was
<OvenWerks> where is the right page then?
<studiobot> <teward001> and then look at the specific changelogs ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> just an YFI :)
<studiobot> <teward001> FYI*
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The Deiban Salsa repo is https://salsa.debian.org/debian/timidity
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sourceforge https://sourceforge.net/projects/timidity/
 * Eickmeyer can't believe they still use sourceforge
<Eickmeyer> Last commit was October.
<OvenWerks> that is wierd, timidity.sourceforge.net is outdated I guess.
<Eickmeyer> Not too weird. I suspect the project is dying.
<teward> dead and dying project is dead and dying?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-14
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yep.
<teward> :P
<Eickmeyer> If nothing else, suffering bitrot.
<studiobot> <teward001> *injects cryptolocker into the code*
<studiobot> <teward001> *is shot*
<studiobot> <teward001> :P
<Eickmeyer> No coffee for you! </coffenazi>
<Eickmeyer> teward, OvenWerks: I had a bad day: https://twitter.com/eickmeyer/status/1139274037094260736
<teward> ouch.
<teward> i had a bad day too but not THAT bad
<teward> bleh fooey i'mma need to go to the pharmacy tomorrow >.>
<Eickmeyer> Lukily I found a replacement, but I didn't need the downtime or stress or cost.
<Eickmeyer> Xubuntu meeting if anybody want to join in #xubuntu-devel
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-08
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: lp:artyfx upload in progress to NEW
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: add64 FAILTOCLONE
<studiobot> <teward001> gbp:error: Error creating add64_3.9.3.orig.tar.bz2: Pristine-tar couldn't checkout "add64_3.9.3.orig.tar.bz2": fatal: Path 'add64_3.9.3.orig.tar.bz2.delta' does not exist in 'refs/heads/pristine-tar' â¦ pristine-tar: git show refs/heads/pristine-tar:add64_3.9.3.orig.tar.bz2.delta failed
<studiobot> <teward001> i think yo ufailed to push pristine-tar
<studiobot> <teward001> or it failed in a bad way
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: redkite uploaded to NEW
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll do more tomorrow.
<studiobot> <teward001> and I'll circle back to add64 later as well.
<studiobot> <teward001> but i need sleep now, good night.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: The tarball had the wrong name, I fixed that. Try pulling the pristine-tar branch again, should be fixed.
<studiobot> <teward001> that worked.  I just did a clean gbp clone ;P
<studiobot> <teward001> running sbuild
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: add64 in NEW
<Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks!
<studiobot> <teward001> need you to do some work on bchoppr.  they aren't breaking but i want these fixed. â¦ I: bchoppr source: unused-file-paragraph-in-dep5-copyright paragraph at line 21 â¦ I: bchoppr source: wildcard-matches-nothing-in-dep5-copyright src/Bwidgets/pugl/pugl_osx.m (paragraph at line 21)
<studiobot> <teward001> while you're there actually check the copyright file while you're at it and that the copyrights line up
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: I manually create those copyright files, so I guess I didn't know that unused files (stuff for osx) don't need to be included even though the source is there.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: Fixed.
<studiobot> <teward001> well either the wildcard doesn't match
<studiobot> <teward001> or you fatfingered
<Eickmeyer> ...
<studiobot> <teward001> you DO need to include it if the source files is tehre but if it's covered by another wildcard it should then work
<studiobot> <teward001> that's waht the error indicates
<studiobot> <teward001> your wildcards in here don't work :P
<Eickmeyer> I removed it....
<Eickmeyer> *sigh* I was working on something entirely different right now. Problem is, that affects something like 4 packages (b*) since they were all developed the same way by the same author.
<Eickmeyer> SO, the question is, did my fix work or is it bad?
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: ^
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks, StevenJayCohen: I'm working on some gsettings-overrides for ubuntustudio-menu that *should* add application folders to GNOME to organize things better there.
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll have to check.  work just slammed me with some things
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which gnome?  ;)  gnome actually had a menu, gnome3 does not really, just a plugin that is not (so far as I know) gnome maintained, but rather a separate project
<OvenWerks> *gnome2 actually had a menu
<OvenWerks> Anyway, have fun
<OvenWerks> just don't braek freedesktop compat.
<OvenWerks> gnome is not worth it
<OvenWerks> whatever fix you do today will be broken the next release of <whatever>
<OvenWerks> gnome make me grumpy, sorry.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Gnome2 is dead and not in the repos.
<Eickmeyer> I'm going with Gnome 3, and using a dconf profile method that has been in use for over 5 years now.
<OvenWerks> but one of the new DEs is based in gnome 2, No?
<Eickmeyer> Only MATE. I'm not worried about MATE, it technically does respect XDG, but some 3rd party menus (which are in use by default in Ubuntu MATE) do not.
<OvenWerks> if we can make the menu work with that, good stuff
<Eickmeyer> It does, so long as you use the old, traditional menu.
<Eickmeyer> For Gnome 3, though, I had to make some app folders.
<Eickmeyer> Luckily, it works. You just can't have folders within folders.
<Eickmeyer> It's better than nothing though.
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, the file that does the configuration must be maintained separately from the XDG-based studio.menu.
<Eickmeyer> Still in the same package since it nothing interferes.
<OvenWerks> Of course what else are standards for? but at least it keeps it from getting in the way for other DEs
<Eickmeyer> Well, the GNOME developers have said over and over again they're forging their own path on this. It's not a traditional desktop, so throw everything you know about desktops wrt GNOME out the window.
<Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: If you have a cycle or two, I wouldn't mind you testing this: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild/+build/19429834/+files/ubuntustudio-menu_0.42+git-0~202006082338~ubuntu20.04.1_all.deb
<Eickmeyer> It should automatically put Ubuntu Studio items into folders.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-09
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: question: re headphone switching, what level should I set Headphone and or Front to?
<OvenWerks> Should I just do 0dB?
<OvenWerks> Pulse seems to do that and use master to set the output level
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If Pulse does it, then that's the expected behavior.
<OvenWerks> good enough, 0dB and unmute to turn on, mute to turn off
<OvenWerks> I will set it up as if PCH is system as a first step
<Eickmeyer> ð
<OvenWerks> then set it up to copy or move all connections from system_1/2 to the headphone device if it is not system
<OvenWerks> then set up USB headphone switching.
<OvenWerks> Actually, I think the last will just be there with the move output connections
<Eickmeyer> Everyone: I have a long way to go with the packaging I'm working on, but I'm going to have to take a break from it for the moment. The work I did on making appfolders as part of ubuntustudio-menu for Ubuntu (GNOME) seems to work as well as it can.
<Eickmeyer> I just pushed a minor cosmetic change to the Plasma splash screen that's part of ubuntustudio-default-settings.
<Eickmeyer> Basically, a friend of mine needs his web site migrated between servers. We did this a few years ago and haven't been happy with the service, and we are doing something that will halve his costs.
<Eickmeyer> I've got a week and a half to work on it, so that's the goal.
<OvenWerks> hope by then I will have a few fixes on controls ready
<Eickmeyer> Sounds good.
<OvenWerks> Wonderful... have you seen anything about this: https://github.com/relascope/jack_mixer/issues/1
<OvenWerks> not to do with jakc-mixer but that would ball up controls pretty good.
<OvenWerks> or are we already using pygtk's succesor?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^
<OvenWerks> maybe we use gi as the next version
<OvenWerks> yeah sorry for the noise we are already beyond that
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, we're already beyond it.
<Eickmeyer> Controls isn't affected at all.
<Eickmeyer> jack-mixer was removed from the repos, however.
<OvenWerks> I don't recall the switch being that hard...
<OvenWerks> Yeah I know.
<OvenWerks> it was not jack-mixer I was worried about but anything else using gtk from inside python. I did not realize the name changed
<Eickmeyer>   Right. Everything is working in groovy under python3, so we're good.
<OvenWerks> yup
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-10
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: A while back, you mentioned GNOME Terminal being unable to run processes in real-time?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't remember 
<OvenWerks> I remember that some people have had trouble getting RT with "ubunutu"
<Eickmeyer> Ok, well, the GNOME devs, with my Fedora Jam role, are wondering about that. 
<Eickmeyer> They want to work with me on improving GNOME for RT audio, including pipewire and what-not.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: all I can do is point at the Ardour thread on problems... let me see if I can find it (them?)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, awesome.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: by the way there has been some activity with jack_mixer in the past months. The changes here: https://github.com/dsheeler/jack_mixer are slowly making there way into upstream. The parts upstreamed do not yet include the python3 bits but those are under consideration by upstream over the past week.
<OvenWerks> https://discourse.ardour.org/t/anyone-encountering-rt-jack-issues-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-20-04-lts/103477
<OvenWerks> Oh, and of course the upstream for jack_mixer has changed too.
<OvenWerks> but my guess is that the packaging will end up starting from scratch as jack_mixer has been dropped in debian too.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: RE: Jack Mixer, yep.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: RE: that Ardour thread: I'm facepalming through the whole thing. This is exactly WHY Ubuntu Studio (and installer) exists, but apparently is ignored by the Ardour community???? ð¡
<OvenWerks> So it appears to be installation trouble then., OK
<Eickmeyer> Should we add cgred and cgconfig though?
<OvenWerks> I don't know
<Eickmeyer> I mean, one person: "Installing linux-lowlatency solved the problem." *facepalm*
<OvenWerks> I don't understand cgroups well enough to know.
<Eickmeyer> Here's the thing: Installing Ubuntu (or Xubuntu as one person did) doesn't install our defaults *unless* they use -installer after the fact. It's just frustrating to see a thread like that when the solution is right under their noses.
<OvenWerks> I do have some work I need to do on Ardour though. Two bugs and one feature that is part done. So between that and the few controls bits I feel need to be finished by FF... I'm not ready to study on it
<OvenWerks> (it neing cgroups)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. ugh...
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio is just now regaining credibility... one step at a time
<Eickmeyer> So, how did it lose credibility? Was it when it almost died?
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> and maybe two years before that too
<Eickmeyer> Ok. Well, we're on the right track. I see holstein singing our praises constantly, so there's that, and that speaks volumes.
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> A stick in the mud :) but a nice guy otherwise
<Eickmeyer> I just wish we could get Filipe back on the team rather than fragmenting into KXStudio.
<OvenWerks> The one thing I do miss is that he uses a FW device and makes a good tester
<OvenWerks> Filipe is splitting Catia off of Cadence so it would be good to have that.
<OvenWerks> I do not think he is able to work within the debian/ubuntu world and do what he wants to do.
<OvenWerks> he distributes binary blobs
<Eickmeyer> He does, and he doesn't. I think the only binary blob he distributed was waf, but there's other things that I have to skip over in the plugins area.
<OvenWerks> Ardour is a binary too
<OvenWerks> not from src
<OvenWerks> this means it includes the gtk2 patches ardour uses
<Eickmeyer> People have complained about how slow his build is to launch compared to ours and/or Ardour's binary.
<OvenWerks> wierd, it is Ardour's binary
<OvenWerks> I don't know if he installs it on opt though
<Eickmeyer> I don't know either.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-11
<bloompa> Hello. Maybe more a question for the specific software included, but I installed a copy of Ubuntu Studio and I'm about to try and hook up a Pod HD series pedal into LMMS. Wondering if Ubuntu Studio will recognize stuff from line6 without needing to do anything other than plug the cable in
<Eickmeyer> bloompa: No support questions in the developer collaboration chat (this channel) please.
<bloompa> wld just plug it in, but i don't have the cable...yet
<bloompa> thx
<bloompa> sry
<bloompa> leaving now. thank you all for the work you've put into 20.04. very good package. smooth
<Eickmeyer> bloompa: Check in #lau (Linux Audio Users) or #opensourcemusicians.
<bloompa> cool. thx
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-12
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: did debian update the depends for Ardour 6 when they synced? Ie was libwebsockets' >= 2.0.0 left out on purpose? (there may be good reason to have left it out for 6.0 but I think by 6.1 it should be included)
<OvenWerks> there have been comments in the Ardour irc and forum about the debian version missing libwebsockets.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That means they screwed up.
<Eickmeyer> When I do the sync, it literally pulls the unchanged source from Debian.
 * OvenWerks was also building without for quite a while, easy to miss
<Eickmeyer> They must've left out the build dep.
<Eickmeyer> I'd file a bug report, but that's all email and syntax based, and I don't know how to do it. I might just fix the build deps in the upstream salsa repo since I have access, but someone's going to have to redo the upload.
<OvenWerks> Its one of those things that can be built without so configure doesn't fail.
<Eickmeyer> I mean, they literally have libwebsockets-dev 3.2.1, so it's available.
<OvenWerks> yes, I know :) it was there in 18.04 for that matter
<OvenWerks> (where I first added it)
<OvenWerks> It would be good to look at the log of the build and see if there is anything else missing I guess.
<OvenWerks> (assuming the build log shows ./waf configure)
<Eickmeyer> They should. They remove the binary waf but they bring it back in from source.
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I committed it directly upstream (I have the perms).
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: You can check d/control here: https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/ardour/-/blob/master/debian/control
<studiobot> <teward001> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1248056/kxstudio-repositories-are-compatible-with-ubuntu-studio looks like something you guys on the Studio team can answer xD
<Eickmeyer> !kxstudio | @teward001 It's this simple
<ubottu> @teward001 It's this simple: KXStudio is a software repository for Debian-based operating systems for audio production. It is not supported by Ubuntu or Ubuntu Studio, and using its repo is highly discouraged as it can overwrite system and user settings. Support in #kxstudio.
<studiobot> <teward001> that was easy
<studiobot> <teward001> *wrote an answer*
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: I also wrote an answer. If I had a dollar for every person who came by somewhere in IRC complaining about a broken system after adding those repos, I'd probably be rich.
<Eickmeyer> Also, they're not PPAs, so not easy to remove.
<studiobot> <teward001> right
<Eickmeyer> Technically they are, but they're added to sources.list.d instead.
<Eickmeyer> Rather, directly.
<OvenWerks> I wish He would remove cadence and claudia now... instead of waiting till he has f_nsm
<OvenWerks> he is separating Catia though
<OvenWerks> (some of these names are so descriptive)
<Eickmeyer> He's taking his sweet time about it, and has recent commits to Cadence itself.
<OvenWerks> too much responsibilty
<Eickmeyer> I agree.
<OvenWerks> There are not enough new developers coming in to replace the students who now have to work for a living. 
<OvenWerks> got the latest on Bug 1713313. What a mess... wayland breaks things so wayland has a bug, wayland says "won't fix" make _everything work with are stuff.
<ubottu> bug 1713313 in xdiagnose (Ubuntu) "Unable to launch pkexec'ed applications on Wayland session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713313
 * OvenWerks responce is "use X"
 * OvenWerks hopes pipewire id better
<OvenWerks> I can't type today
<OvenWerks> Ardour is giving me a headache. Some one pointed out that OSC can control the stereo width but there is no feedback for that. I added the feedback to strip and through testing figure out that the way I had already done it for select is not right.
<OvenWerks> The strip has to be picked up after the right style of panner is in use or there is no feedback. I am guessing if pan width is available, I grab it and then it goes away... ardour will crash on exit or something. :P
<OvenWerks> so 4 lines of code will end up being 30 or something ...
<Eickmeyer> I love how bug 1713313 was filed against -default-settings. I simply removed it, that's completely outside of -default-settings's scope.
<ubottu> bug 1713313 in xdiagnose (Ubuntu) "Unable to launch pkexec'ed applications on Wayland session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713313
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-13
<OvenWerks> did they just go through anything that mentioned pkexec and flag them all? I still think linux as a community should just not use wayland
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, it's not that simple, just like everything else.
<OvenWerks> every time someone says "but we are miving to wayland" respond with wayland is broken I can't run <list of things>
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: that is true, most people install the ubuntu, redhat, whatever and expect it to run.
<Eickmeyer> Ubuntu's GNOME still defaults to Xorg.
<Eickmeyer> And, imo, it's OK when people find problems with it. That's the only way it's going to get better.
<Eickmeyer> Sure, problems are painful. I hate them. But things get better when you can work through them.
<Eickmeyer> People are finally catching on: https://frontpagelinux.com/tutorials/easily-install-jack-audio-with-ubuntu-studio-installer/
<OvenWerks> pretty good write up... "During installation, select âEnable realtime process priorityâ, and click Next." while technically correct is not necessary :)
<Eickmeyer> Right, because -Controls does that.
<OvenWerks> love of calf is well whatever, probably ok for just using OBS.
<Eickmeyer> Can confirm it is. As long as they don't use the reverb, I'm like, "meh."
<OvenWerks> still it is nice to hear via various sources that installer and controls is appeciated
<OvenWerks> this is really my first well used SW aside from my part in Ardour (which is minor really)
<OvenWerks> All the rest has been for my own use
<Eickmeyer> The best software comes from people finding a solution to a problem for their own personal use and giving it to others.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-14
<OvenWerks> it appears that using zita buffer = 1/2 jack buffer is not a good solution. I may have to allow setting buffer size on a perdevice basis. Someone asked in LAD mailing list rather than here.
