#ubuntu-uds-community-2 2013-05-14
 * chilicuil prepares himself a coffee
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Lubuntu work items for Saucy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21754/community-s-lubuntu-work-items/
<balloons> for anyone who wants to join the sesssion, please speak up for an invite
<elfy> shouldn't the youtube thing work anyway?
<chilicuil> I'd like balloons
<balloons> elfy, you can certainly watch and use IRC.. but if your going to be talking a lot, hop into the video hangout :-)
<elfy> I'll not be talking at all ;)
<elfy> no mike :)
<balloons> ahh
<balloons> for anyone who wants to join the sesssion, please speak up for an invite
<Yorvyk> I'd like an invite
<balloons> sure thing Yorvyk
<balloons> can everyone see the hangout?
<SergioMeneses> balloons, no
<daker_> yep
<daker_> SergioMeneses:refresh
<SergioMeneses> yes!!!
<elfy> nope
<SergioMeneses> I did thanks daker_
<elfy> so did I
<SergioMeneses> phillw, are you the penguin?
<balloons> thanks guys :-)
<balloons> gilir= pengiun = Julien
<elfy> zip nada nothing here at all
<chilicuil> I've seen some mail in the qa ml about something like a plan to introduce xp users to lubuntu, is this something official?
<chilicuil> if it's I think it could be a good idea to try to organizate how it's gonna be done, to me it sounds like a good idea
<elfy> that's cos I' not even at the right time - you can ignore me lol
<balloons> elfy, lol.. did you figure everything out?
<elfy> I'm cool - got a mental disconnect going between UTC and BST :D
<chilicuil> and what about other browsers, such as midori?
<chilicuil> understandable
<jcastro> gema: heya, this is our irc
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Client | Move automated upgrade testing to UTAH | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21830/client-s-upgrade-testing-with-utah/
<zyga> plars-vuds: hi
<zyga> hey
<zyga> I'd love to join
<zyga> plars-vuds: ^^
<zyga> thanks
<josepht_uds> I think the key is having utah handle running tests on the images
<gema> josepht_uds: that's what we are trying to agree on how to do
<gema> josepht_uds: why don't you join?
<josepht_uds> gema: I have to run in a few minutes
<gema> josepht_uds: ok
<gema> 10 minutes to go
<zyga> thanks, I learned a few interesting things just now
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
<MarkDude> Community \o
<bkerensa> jono_: where is the hangout link?
<bkerensa> valorie: yeah but idk how to pull the trigger on this
<bkerensa> :)
<valorie> ok
<bkerensa> cjohnston: hangout?
<bkerensa> hmm
<bkerensa> I guess I have to set it up myself maybe
<valorie> the bot doesn't seem to know that we have a session scheduled
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> idk
<jono_> bkerensa, session isnt for an hour yet
<bkerensa> oh
<valorie> what?
<jono_> look at the time
<jono_> it is not 6pm UTC yet
<jono_> 18:05 - 19:00 UTC
<jono_> now it is 5:20 PM
<bkerensa> valorie: heh you worried me I was late to my session
<bkerensa> :)
<jono_> :-)
<elfy> I've been doing that all afternoon
<bkerensa> elfy: its so early
<bkerensa> I should be sleeping
<jcastro> I woke up an hour early if it makes you feel better
<elfy> and got really worried when I heard wolverhampton mentioned
<jcastro> I should have been sleeping
<valorie> damn it
<valorie> ok, back in a bit then
<bkerensa> valorie: do you know what time the session is specifically?
<bkerensa> valorie: I just had family arrive
<bkerensa> and I do think the issue is mostly resolved now
<MarkDude> UTC equals fun confusion at times :D
 * MarkDude agrees. Has made clear on other bug its closed also
<bkerensa> okie dokie
<bkerensa> woah see
<bkerensa> we do have a community
<bkerensa> :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Planning for Ubuntu Community presence on the Ubuntu Website | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21740/community-1305-ubuntu-website-planning/
<bkerensa> we will be starting momentarily folks
<JoseeAntonioR> who's hosting this one?
<bkerensa> Me
<bkerensa> jono_ is making the hangout
<jono_> it starts in 8mins
<bkerensa> oh yeah indeed
 * bkerensa slaps udsbotu
<elfy> bkerensa: so is anyone from the webteam going to be present?
<bkerensa> elfy: yes
<elfy> thanks
<bkerensa> elfy: and Jono will be there representing Canonical Community Team too
 * MarkDude is on irc, figures it makes sense to let the Community folks handle the Hangout
<elfy> who's MarkDude then :)
<philipballew> Id like to join the hangout
<MarkDude> \o
<MarkDude> philipballew: 's voice would be better to hear anyway
 * pleia2 waves
<JoseeAntonioR> hey, everyone
<MarkDude> hangout link (to watch)?
 * philipballew sings softly to MarkDude 
<elfy> yea - but I'm elfy from the Forum Council - is MarkDude just some guy from a Douglas Adam's book or someone from the webteam :)
<philipballew> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21740/community-1305-ubuntu-website-planning/
<philipballew> MarkDude, ^
 * MarkDude is from another Universe
<MarkDude> Here as community :)
<elfy> bkerensa: so who is here from the webteam
<bkerensa> elfy: Peter Mahnke will be
<elfy> ta
<bkerensa> he should be in the hangout
<bkerensa> there he is now
<bkerensa> so peterm-ubuntu is on the Canonical Design Team
<elfy> and I assume this session is just about the webpage and not the canonical/community fractures
<JoseeAntonioR> exactly
<elfy> yep - thanks bkerensa
<peterm-ubuntu> hi bkerensa is there a ghangout?
<bkerensa> peterm-ubuntu: jono_  is setting it up for us
<hggdh> Coming in Real Soon Now :-)
<valorie> o/
<peterm-ubuntu> coolâ¦ bkerensa  I am here with Alejandra as well
<elfy> so there's nowhere at this uds about the real issue - the not letting people know what's going on until it's too late and people shout out
<MarkDude> elfy: +1
<philipballew> the elephant in the room. ^
<JoseeAntonioR> elfy: the topic may pop-up anyways
<MarkDude> But this session is design oriented :)
<elfy> I'm about - but camera and mic less :)
<cjohnston> howdy
 * philipballew awaits hangout invite
<MarkDude> philipballew: needs invite
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to be part of the hangout?
<MarkDude> Pingy
<MarkDude> :)
<dholbach> MarkDude, yes yes yes
<MarkDude> Not me
<dholbach> I passed on the link already - it sometimes just take a while for folks to sign in
<dholbach> :)
<philipballew> dholbach, yes, and if there is room, MarkDude should join
<MarkDude> FAir enough.
<elfy> dholbach: thanks for inviting me
<cjohnston> someone is watching and on air
<dholbach> philipballew, looks like MarkDude didn't want to
 * MarkDude thinks this being Design stuff
<dholbach> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21706/community-1305-community-website-revamp/
<MarkDude> And as to general issue of fracture, I see the dialog being strong, and am willing to bet things are gonna SMOOTH a bit.
<pleia2> cjohnston: it's paused for me, is there an external link to the etherpad so when I load the page it doesn't go all nuts? :)
<MarkDude> Thats another time tho
<JoseeAntonioR> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-community-1305-ubuntu-website-planning
<JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: ^
<pleia2> ty
<MarkDude> +1
<jcastro> can someone paste the link in irc?
 * MarkDude is ALSO willing to bet METRICS will be great on this, not too worried
<MarkDude> The Community's <click links> look safe in long run, IMHO
<valorie> my question is still why communication was lacking?
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> that's nothing new - comes up with boring regularity
<valorie> "won'tfix" on the bug was very passive-aggressive
<czajkowski> valorie: indeed, but it should be noted that wasn't that design teams doing
<valorie> it stirred the FUD
<MarkDude> czajkowski: +1
<elfy> czajkowski: people can see exactly who marked it
<czajkowski> valorie: indeed but I don't think we can can blame the design team for this tbh
 * MarkDude took exception to team being blamed.
<valorie> well, I'm not about blame, I'm about improving the process
 * MarkDude is always aware of Design folks being caught in middle or pretty much EVERYTHING :)
<hggdh> still. As the hangout is trying to stress, communication (and consequent perception) is a critical thingy to keep in mind
<MarkDude> The Design team
<MarkDude> Communication +1
<elfy> hggdh: agreed
<MarkDude> As a person that has said he was concerned about dialog for last few years. I feel a few things have changed
<MarkDude> hggdh: agreed
<cjohnston> jcastro: +1  yes
 * MarkDude feels its gonna get better
<hggdh> jcastro: state it again. And again. And again. memory is short, and we cannot depend on it. Even though I do remember - -now -- the Brussels discussions, I had already forgotten about them
<valorie> the design team isn't on planet, correct?
<jcastro> "let's fix community.ubuntu.com" has been the recurring thing we haven't been able to fix for as long as I can remember
<cjohnston> Nothing stops any community member from blogging about this too.
<valorie> that should be fixed, IMO
<elfy> hggdh: this is the thing - if there's been some sort of 'we discussed this sometime ago, now we're ready to do something - so this will be happening' makes life easier for everyone
<bkerensa> Any questions or feedback from IRC?
<MarkDude> Or FOSS in general :) blogging that is
<valorie> please put the design team on planet
<hggdh> bkerensa: ^
<bkerensa> valorie: they are
<pleia2> valorie: theya re on planet
<bkerensa> but they didnt announce the plan to take down the link
<valorie> ok, I've missed that then
<bkerensa> until the day after they did the spring clean
<valorie> ok
 * popey typed a question in the comments section of etherpad.
<bkerensa> and the community.u.c site well its been something that apparently was discussed over years
<bkerensa> so
<bkerensa> there was disconnect as to whether the spring clean was related to the link removal
<bkerensa> especially with the delay in the blog post
<czajkowski> peter +1
<MarkDude> PERCEPTION by folks may be broke. I DONT think the processes are ALL broke inside of Ubuntu/Canonical.
 * MarkDude has seen quite a few things improve
<popey> GIANT +!
<popey> +1
<popey> Too quickly people assume canonical are out to screw the community.
<cjohnston> +1
<czajkowski> popey: +1 it's so disheartening tbh
<MarkDude> popey: +1
<popey> People think we're deliberately messing things up just to mess with people
<MarkDude> They are NOT
<valorie> well, announcing what is happening nips that in the bud
<hggdh> it has been getting better -- although I am a bit biased. But we still lack a bit more of  proactive announcements
<popey> and we've been around for _years_ yet every single damn time this happens, people jump on us with the blog posts, the bitchy bug reports, the stupid videos.
<valorie> people always do that, so plan ahead to circumvent it
<popey> It's _incredibly_ depressing for those of us working at Canonical who actually _care_ (which FWIW is all of us)
<philipballew> what we do not want to assume that community members  can just see a "problem" Canonical did, and be quick to judge without finding out what might really be the issue. the problem is we as community members have a disconnect to talk to canonical people.
 * MarkDude thinks there is a disparity between results being ok most the time, and   some not being able to see it
<popey> There's certainly occasions where we (canonical) just don't expect the flak - like when shopping lens came out - we really were surprised at the negative feedback.
<cjohnston> philipballew: Ben asked questions on two different places and was answered both times.. before the bug was filed. where is the disconnect?
<elfy> popey: you're not the only ones who care - but try seeing the picture from this side - you might all be constantly talkign about things - but if it stays that side - then the first thing people see is stuff like community suddenly disappearing :)
<hggdh> popey: we *know* there will be complaints (and, this time, I was one of them). So what we could do is been more proactive about announcing it (as valorie suggests)
<valorie> "surprise!" is almost always seen badly
<popey> elfy: but people could talk to us, but they don't, they just jump right on blog posts, bugs, social complaining
<valorie> geeks don't like surprises
<elfy> indeed valorie
<popey> rather than _talking_
<MarkDude> EXAMPLE: I was given help by Canonical folks , as well as many other offers of help for making bug for this- as well as open process for Blueprints
<philipballew> cjohnston, the problem is there is a difference between Canonical and Ubuntu community and that should not be.
<philipballew> We should not have people labeled as "community" or "Canonical", just label everyone as "people who help make Ubuntu"
<elfy> philipballew: +1 to that
 * MarkDude made point about SURPRISES- a few understood, most were unhappy at no warnings ;)
 * JoseeAntonioR waves
<popey> I have seen people inside Canonical say they actually don't want to talk to the community because they're afraid of the InstaFlak which comes with it. Which shouldn't be the case.
<MarkDude> philipballew: +1
<hggdh> jono_: +1 -- there is no "Canonical" and "Community" as different groups. We are all in this together
<MarkDude> +1 on common themes
<valorie> think of it like good parenting
<elfy> popey: and I +1 that
<valorie> warn the kids well in advance
<jcastro> hmm, forgot to blame cjohnston during the hangout
<MarkDude> Hang in there folks, I STILL say there was a disconnect. water under the bridge
<cjohnston> go for it
<jono_> always cjohnston's fault
<elfy> it was subliminal jcastro
<popey> question in teh etherpad!
<jono_> THAT GUY BRINGS NOTHING
<jono_> lol
<popey> jono_: bkerensa
<MarkDude> Dialog is good
<cjohnston> jcastro: jono_ questions in etherpad
<popey> jono_: see Comments:
<hggdh> jcastro: nowadays, it is always cjohnston (cannot blame me anymore :-)
 * MarkDude made SURE cjohnston was not blamed
<asomething> there's a session tomorrow right? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21706/community-1305-community-website-revamp/
<MarkDude> At least by me
<jcastro> looking
<MarkDude> Need to clarify Jono and jcastro helpful too
<popey> â¹
<dholbach> asomething, yes - that's about the actual site itself
<elfy> asomething: yea - more about the page itslef
<elfy> snap :)
<bkerensa> valorie: I agree with jono_ its hard to be aware of everything going on... I do not see this as a lets dogpile Canonical but more along the lines of just the Community being passionate about the project they are contributing to and due to the lack of being able to be aware of "all the things" we are very vigilant in defending community
<MarkDude> Tnx. and lets write some things about *making bridges *
<dholbach> and hey asomething! good to see you again! :)
<jono_> who left that comment?
<bkerensa> asomething: yea
<popey> jono_: me
<jono_> popey, well volunteered :-)
<elfy> popey: I'd assume that would be tomorrow too
<popey> jono_: saw that coming
<popey> â»
<jono_> :-)
<valorie> I'm not targeting "canonical" -- but anyone who is considering making big changes
<valorie> announce well in advance, and you get buyin rather than FUD
<bkerensa> should let the community know somehow
<bkerensa> valorie: +1
<valorie> that includes community people too
<hggdh> valorie: correct. That's pretty much all there is to be done
<valorie> all teh teams
<valorie> :-)
<dholbach> I think that's very very hard to do
<bkerensa> valorie: indeed  I think Community is just as responsible for ensuring we announce changes
<bkerensa> this car has more than one driver
<valorie> naturally, or we'd all do it more
<dholbach> and that's something worth thinking very hard about - if ALL THE TEAMS announce everything all the time, we'd drown in information
<dholbach> which wouldn't help solve the problem
<dholbach> we have weekly team reports on the mailing lists by some team - who reads all the details in there?
 * valorie is already drowning, nothing new there
<cjohnston> and more time would be spent writing announcements than doing work
<MarkDude> Simple suggestion- if there are metrics- or maybe hurt feelings involved ASK
<dholbach> it's easy to ask for more info and more transparency
<bkerensa> ubuntu-community-announce@lists.ubuntu.com
<MarkDude> Some folks feelings were hurt by this
<dholbach> but you have to be careful about how to do it
<MarkDude> True
<MarkDude> TOSW has some good suggestions
<dholbach> I'd love for us to have a great overview over what's going on all across the project :)
<elfy> no-one should expect minutia
<dholbach> but one that'd digestable somehow :)
<valorie> right
<MarkDude> And wants some of the great Ubuntu examples of openness-
<hggdh> dholbach: how about setting a place on the web, split by area-of-interest, where links to teams' announcements are put? Like a "central" information booth
<MarkDude> Tnx for the session folks :)
<valorie> yes, thanks to all who participated
<elfy> dholbach: this community website thing - could have been really positive  community issue if it didn't feel like we're trying to catch back what got thrown away
<valorie> and kudos to bkerensa for driving this
<dholbach> hggdh, we tried that with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports - still you have some teams mailing stuff to the mailing lists or blogging it - depending on where their primary interest group is
<dholbach> still you'd need somebody to pre-digest all the details in there
<hggdh> dholbach: care to talk about that later
<dholbach> elfy, this has been discussed for 2 years already
<elfy> the FC team report is REALLY easy to reed :)
<valorie> dholbach: teamreports is so difficult to do
<cjohnston> Doesn't the weekly newsletter do that?
 * hggdh is starting to be afraid he will end up with something to do
<elfy> dholbach: yes maybe - but where?
<valorie> I've never been fully successful at making it work
<elfy> because I never saaw much about it :)
<dholbach> elfy, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityWebsite?action=info which is the most recent incarnation of the project - 2012-12-05 22:05:14 the site was set up
<elfy> anyway - this is just circular - but I think everyone is of the same mine - comms didn't work too well
<dholbach> hggdh, we can chat briefly now if that's OK - I planned to drop off after the last UDS session
<MarkDude> elfy: +1
<hggdh> dholbach: can be another day, I also have a (work) meeting in a few
<dholbach> hggdh, sure! :)
<elfy> yes - but that's just a list of edits to a wiki page I didn't even know about till I happened to see you talking about it in ubuntu-community-team :)
<dholbach> yeah, that's what I talked about
<dholbach> google for the page and see where it was mentioned before
<dholbach> I know that Jono blogged about it and it was mentioned elsewhere
<dholbach> that's the signal/noise/communication channels problem we have to solve :)
<elfy> I agree :)
<MarkDude> Agreed.
<elfy> but after 7 years I'm just a bit cynical about seeing it change :)
<dholbach> come on
<dholbach> that's a problem we have to solve together
<elfy> in as postive a way as that can be read :)
<elfy> yep
<cjohnston> There is no perfect way. There is planet, theres voices, there are team blogs, there is the weekly news letter, how many more places do things need to be published?
<elfy> perhaps something/somewhere that's less full of the diverse and more specific
<elfy> who knows - if I had all the answers I'd tell you ;)
<dholbach> it's a very hard problem to solve and we had sessions about it in the past which didn't result in much unfortunately because it is hard
<elfy> which should just be more reason to fight through it
<dholbach> and I can understand the demand for transparency
<dholbach> but it's hard, there's often time pressure, lack of a good process, etc
<elfy> yep
<elfy> should add it to the community roundtable ...
<elfy> well - thanks for the time, got some early evening stuff to get done
<cjohnston> its more than just a roundtable discussion
<MarkDude> dholbach: you are fully correct. Being Open does not mean EVERYTHING, private is fine at time- especially when looking at POSSIBLE details
<dholbach> I guess what I'm just a bit unhappy about is that there are many asking for more info, more detail, more transparency -- which I totally understand -- but up until now I didn't see many folks acknowledging how hard it is, spending some time to think about it and willing to put some work into it
<elfy> I know - but at the moment it's a lot of disparate groups complaining at each other - someone has to grab the thing by the scruff of the necj
<dholbach> MarkDude, yeah, I understand
<MarkDude> dholbach: _ FULLY have your back on that
<MarkDude> I do
 * MarkDude will email you with some follow up ideas
<elfy> cjohnston: that was for you ^^ not dholbach :)
<MarkDude> I have seen this happen  in other places, its not just one place that has this
<elfy> dholbach: and you know that I'm often about - I do talk to people :)
<elfy> gtg now - cya for tomorrow's session on it
<MarkDude> Another project I work with has some folks VERY upset over a decision that was made. They dont think it was open. At this point it looks ok, but they are trying the appeal type process
<MarkDude> Suggestion if the BLueprints made a BIT more sense, I would not have needed to waste others time that much
<MarkDude> Mostly the Blueprint -vs- BP for UDS
<valorie> when the issue is seen as "open" vs "closed" -- it's a class issue, and no one likes to discuss class!
<cjohnston> MarkDude: which part of the instructions I wrote don't make sense?
<valorie> MarkDude: link to blueprint in question?
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Women UDS-1305 Goals | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21741/community-1305-ubuntu-women/
<dholbach> it works now
<dholbach> but for me at least it lags or starts/stops every now and then
 * pleia2 waves
<Cheri703> hello
<IdleOne> I think the trolling on the eitherpad is more than enough now.
 * IdleOne waves
<MarkDude> UW rox! Keep up the good work folks :)
<dholbach> MarkDude, does the video feed work ok for you?
 * MarkDude  needs to go leave to meet a Fedoran from Burkina Fasso in SF
<MarkDude> Prolly better for me to be quiet on more things ;)
<MarkDude> <working on it>
<dholbach> enjoy!
 * dholbach 'd love to go to Burkina Faso
<dholbach> having a capital which is called Ouagadougou is already reason enough to be keen to visit it
<dholbach> but for me the video feed is still starting and stopping :-/
<MarkDude> lol that is where he is from
<Cheri703> dholbach: try the youtube direct link?
<Cheri703> we do have small gaps of silence, so that might be the problem?
<dholbach> Cheri703, good point - let me try
<dholbach> it's getting better now - thanks
<valorie> o/
<valorie> sorry to be late
<valorie> oh, new plugin
<valorie> installing
<fisch246> you could start with a group at conference, to try and get word around about the ubuntu Â women project. then eventually lead to hosting events, and conferences yourselves.
<Cheri703> yeah, the difficulty is that we are all spread out really far
<Cheri703> so trying to get in-person activities is complicated.
<Cheri703> that would be another benefit of collaborating with other grups, we could have more mass to work toward events
<fisch246> true, and you could just keep it open source for now. maybe make an open source conference sponsored by ubuntu women project, and other open source related projects
<fisch246> ha like the hat in the background
<IdleOne> lol, no pressure pleia2
<pleia2> :)
<valorie> thanks, fisch246
<pleia2> haha, just saw the etherpad ;P
<JoseeAntonioR> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<Cheri703> :D
<pleia2> thanks
<valorie> lots of places to keep up with what's going on
<fisch246> i could contact chris and see if one of you could get an interview on Linux Action Show
<pleia2> that would be cool
<valorie> btw, it's announce@linuxchix.org
<JoseeAntonioR> ok, time for me to run now :)
<JoseeAntonioR> see you all later
<fisch246> https://plus.google.com/108668411027851722546/posts
<fisch246> that's his account
<fisch246> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/contact/
<fisch246> that's another way to contact him :)
<Cheri703> awesome, thanks
<valorie> Systers, Linuxchix, DevChix, OpenHatch, CodeChix are some ideas
<valorie> also there is a G+ circle for women in open souce, or women in FOSS
<pleia2> I didn't know about the G+ circles
<valorie> I'll forward you the circle or however one does that
<valorie> aha, there is a planet for that
<valorie> .....can't remember the name
<fisch246> if you mean community, you could post the link here
<valorie> and right, lcx has an active planet
<valorie> maco will remember
<pleia2> live.linuxchix.org
<AlanBell> http://planet.ubuntu-women.org/
<fisch246> cool :)
<pleia2> http://planeteria.org/wfs/
<pleia2> that's the one I was thinking of
<valorie> hmmm, ok, didn't know about that one
<Cheri703> June 11 in #ubuntu-women-project
<Cheri703> next uw meeting
<valorie> great meeting!
<valorie> thanks all
<Dolasilla> :)
<IdleOne> Great meeting, thanks all.
<Dolasilla> sorry for initial mess with the double video sound :/
<fisch246> no prob
<fisch246> great session
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
#ubuntu-uds-community-2 2013-05-15
<delftgate354> jono : QUESTION :: For the *fridge dates given* , would it be possible to suggest that the use of wolframalpha would be a better use of resources as people can easily use that to converge ?? https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=local+time+UTC
<almaidinajad> hi everybody
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community,Foundations,Client,Cloud & Server | Ubuntu Status Tracker | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21695/ubuntu-status-tracker-1305/
<fisch246> Welcome to another day of UDS :D
<delftgate354> fisch246: Is this starting now ?
<fisch246> delftgate354: in about 10 minutes yes
<delftgate354> Crums, I've all over Kixi trying to get a proper channel :>
<philipballew> \
<dholbach> who is interested in joining this session?
<delftgate354> o/ good luck with that .. but i only have one question ..
<dholbach> delftgate354, go ahead :)
<delftgate354> QUESTION :: For the *fridge dates given* , would it be possible to suggest that the use of wolframalpha would be a better use of resources as people can easily use that to converge ?? https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=local+time+UTC
<dholbach> delftgate354, the topic of this session is http://status.ubuntu.com/ - are we talking about the same thing?
<delftgate354> no
<dholbach> ok
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/all-ubuntu-13.05.html
<delftgate354> can you forward this to jono for me anyway ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5667727/
<delftgate354> dholbach: ^ can you forward this to jono anyway ? ^
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-community-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html
<dholbach> delftgate354, is that for the fridge calendar? I'm not sure if Jono is the best person to tackle this
<dholbach> you could try mailing the people on this list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-news-team) maybe
<delftgate354> opening ..
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-community-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/all-ubuntu-13.05.html
<lool> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/all-ubuntu-13.05.html
<jonobacon> sorry I can't join the hangout, guys, I have a baby singing here
<jonobacon> singing in a death metal sense
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to be part of the hangout?
<cjohnston> jonobacon: want to provide feedback here then?
<jonobacon> cjohnston: yeah I will do
<jonobacon> cjohnston: although I think you have a pretty good idea of my feedback currently
<jonobacon> +1 on multiple-cycle work tracking
<jonobacon> I would like to see blueprints not tied to a release cycle, but just be a project with milestones for each release
<jonobacon> my concern is a blueprint that takes longer than a release then has to have a new blueprint created to continue tracking the work, which seems wasteful
<jonobacon> it is not a big deal, I am just thinking in terms of efficiency
<olli_> you don't really have to create a new BP though, do you
<olli_> you can just retarget the existing one?
<jonobacon> you can retarget the existing one but I think that breaks the old burndown if you retarget too early
<olli_> or is the issue that you might lose data for the previous cycle
<olli_> ok,
<jonobacon> cjohnston: you are balling with the cash, don't deny it
<jonobacon> ;-)
<fisch246> lol
<dholbach> jonobacon, incidentally - did you ever get your guitar-shaped swimming pool expensed? :-)
<fisch246> there's an idea... i vote next UDS should be in a pool and hot tub
<olli> does somebody have a link for a good example on the upcoming work view handy
<doanac> olli: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/+upcomingwork
<rickspencer3> Plans for documentation and positioning of the development release ( Foundations )
<rickspencer3> lool, are you referencing that ^ ?
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-development-release-planning
<lool> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> thanks lool
<rickspencer3> :)
<lool> I think we can anticipate this by targeting blueprints to a single release in a new launchpad project
<rickspencer3> it's just hte blueprint about the not rolling release rolling release
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, ack
<rickspencer3> I guess we might want to discuss how work item tracking is impacted in that session
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, you might want to sit in on it
<cjohnston> sounds good
<cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/about.html
<cjohnston> rickspencer3: jonobacon do you have thoughts about that?
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, I kind of lost track, I am paying attention to multiple sessions :/
<delftgate354> dholbach: OK I've contacted akgraner ( I know she's also on y!outu.be) on the mailing list  .. thank-you.
<lool> I'm proposing one or two teams to be guinea pigs for some code changes to the WI tracker; we would use a single series to track all blueprints
<dholbach> delftgate354, perfect
<rickspencer3> o/
<rickspencer3> I heard my name :)
<lool> the reports would be based on all blueprints for the upcoming n months of milestones for that series
<rickspencer3> what matters to me is:
<rickspencer3> 1. the EMs (or whatever leader, for instance a community member) can plan their work effectively
<delftgate354> Where is the hangout youtube page: for this session ?
<rickspencer3> delftgate354, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21695/ubuntu-status-tracker-1305/
<delftgate354> ty
<rickspencer3> 2. teams can easily track their burndowns
<rickspencer3> 3. the work items and progress are transparent (i.e. easy to find, and folks can see the status)
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, lool ^ does that make sense?
<rickspencer3> whether they are targeted to releases, etc... I think should be about how those 3 things would be impacted
<jonobacon> rickspencer3: +1
<jonobacon> I would like to recommend this work is done at status.u.c too as opposed to LP as the changes can be revved faster
<cjohnston> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/unity-ui-team.html
<jonobacon> right now we have some duplicatation in LP and status.u.c
<delftgate354> dholbach, Does this need an (!)action ? I think it does ..
<dholbach> delftgate354, but not in this session - we're talking about something else here :/
<delftgate354> delftgate354: So .. no (!)actions will be taken here ?
<delftgate354> dholbach: So no (!)actions will be taken here ?
<dholbach> delftgate354, this session is just about status.ubuntu.com I'm afraid
<cjohnston> jonobacon: what do you mean by duplication? are you referring to +upcomingwork?
<rickspencer3> I think olli is saying that #2 and #3 in my list are idiosyncratic
<delftgate354> dholbach(!) .. Yes, I was taking about the 3wiki -pages .. (!)actions are needed to make this session successfull ..
<delftgate354> leaves.
<jonobacon> cjohnston: yep
<rickspencer3> I agree with lool, we want both
<cjohnston> jonobacon: yes
<rickspencer3> custom views, but also, standard views that we have transparency
<rickspencer3> if you have to have special knowledge about how a team works to understand their blueprints, it's not really transparent
<olli> rickspencer3, that is lool's point, and I agree to that
<rickspencer3> olli, ack
<olli>  rickspencer3 but I in a project manager role might be more interested in a view that shows me all postponed WI from milestone Foo from (developer x,y,z)
<cjohnston> rick, when I refer to custom views, I'm thinking about drop down boxes where I can say I want: team A, B and D over timespan of X
<olli> and that might be different for another project manager role
<lool> (I think we're all on the same page and strongly agreeing  :-)
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, that sounds great
<rickspencer3> my point was that if the standard views don't actually reflect what a team is doing/working on, then it's not really transparent
<cjohnston> the standard views would probably stay similiar to how they are now
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, right, so teams need to have some standardization in how they work to ensure that the standard views are meaningful
<olli> standard views are mandatory and need to be used in a concise way across the board
<olli> the rest is optional for different roles, imho
<lool> jonobacon: did we miss other features/issues you wanted to see discussed?
<bregma> that would be very useful
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu on Air! Discussion | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21762/community-1305-ubuntuonair/
<dholbach> who wants to be part of this discussion? do you want to join in on the hangout?
<bkerensa> JoseeAntonioR:
<dholbach> anyone  else who wants to be part of this discussion? do you want to join in on the hangout?
<jsjgruber-uds> Should the ubuntu-classroom team be asked if they would like to take this on rather than having a separate team for ubuntu-onair?
<jsjgruber-uds> QUESTION: Â ^^^
<jsjgruber> QUESTION: If we were to go with the UDS approach I'd still like to see the ubuntu-on-air ical calendar generated?
<jsjgruber> Not enough money generated to balance off the criticism it'll generate to monetize the video.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21731/community-roundtable/
<philballew> alright, I.d like an invite to the roundtable hangout
<philballew> rrnwexec, welcome to the channel
<rrnwexec> thanks
<skellat> And I'm willing to join in today (smkellat@gmail.com)
<rrnwexec> ready to join when you guys/gals are
<bkerensa> I would too
<bkerensa> rrnwexec: nice post on statelessness
<fisch246> i can't really provide much input for today's roundtable, so i'll just stay in the irc
<skellat> Where is some public domain hold music when you need it?
<skellat> :-)
<jonobacon> if anyone wants to join the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/18201e297a06a868d6e3c70072ae59cf2708f8a0?authuser=0&hl=en
<YoBoY> if I'm not wrong, the DVD cover/artwork is on the advocacy kit, but this artwork is no more produced to go with the ISO, how we plan to fix that ?
<YoBoY> We want more table cloth for my team ^^
<skellat> For the sake of discussion, here is the transcript of the last educational session we conducted for Ubuntu Ohio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/IRC20130128
<YoBoY> can we add the locoteams logo too ?
<skellat> rrnwexec: knome already has this merge for you to consider: https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/uak/xubuntu-logo/+merge/164001
<rrnwexec> thanks!
<rickspencer3> youtube-dl ftw ;)
<skellat> rickspencer3: Purportedly gpodder works for such as well, too
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> The page could say "Got a great idea? Send an email to Randal"
<YoBoY> +1
<YoBoY> closing ok, but breaking all the existing links ont internet pointing to brainstorm can be a problem too
<skellat> YoBoY: Breakage happens on the Internet.  Stability has never been assured.
<YoBoY> (links to ideas on brainstorm)
<YoBoY> skellat, sure, but there is a clean way to break links I think :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
<YoBoY> (forwards, banner on top of a read only site, â¦)
<YoBoY> thanks
<elfy> peterm-ubuntu: if I'm right in remembering you as the website guy - the website session is in #ubuntu-uds-community-1 today :)
<elfy> if you're not you can safely ignore me :)
<peterm-ubuntu> elfy hiâ¦ yes, I am still here from last night!
<elfy> oh - that'll be why then :p
<peterm-ubuntu> now I am in 1 as well
<elfy> I'm not even sure why I'm here :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Growing a strong translation community | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21802/community-1305-growing-a-strong-translation-community/
<UbuPhillup> yea i am right ;)
<peterm-ubuntu> elfy thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<elfy> welcome
<teolemon_> issue with knowing how to join the hangout
<teolemon_> we're waiting for the hangout link
<teolemon_> they should paste it soon
<UbuPhillup> teolemon_: okey so i wait ;)
<teolemon_> I don't have it either yet
<hannie> 18:09 ;)
<teolemon_> it's me but with web interface
<UbuPhillup> on community-1 it alrady had started ;)
<hannie> huh?
<teolemon_> it's another topic
<teolemon_> Community Website
<teolemon_> balloons do you have the hangout link ?
<teolemon_> (he should be the host for our channel)
<balloons> teolemon_, howdy.. no hangout for you?
<balloons> I can kick it off sure
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6629df662676d64c9f79798ae9e320e700200a91a8?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> Should be starting very soon
<hannie> ok, I am waiting in the hangout
<teolemon-web> same
<balloons> ok, so https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6629df662676d64c9f79798ae9e320e700200a91a8?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> please join up, I'll host, but I'm muted/vid off
<hannie> I only see Nicholas Skaggs
<balloons> is anyone able to join the hangout and lead the session?
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6629df662676d64c9f79798ae9e320e700200a91a8?authuser=2&hl=en
<teolemon-web> you actually have to click on the link
<teolemon-web> you can't join from this page
<balloons> ok I shall start the cast
<balloons> everything should be live now: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6629df662676d64c9f79798ae9e320e700200a91a8?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> if the hangout isn't working / isn't needed, you guys can simply use this channel to have your meeting
<UbuPhillup> ballock: yes i can the hangout
<UbuPhillup> so it works
<balloons> H. Lafebar I hear you
<UbuPhillup> yes
<UbuPhillup> i can hear you
<fkol_k4> The sound comes and goes.
<YoBoY> hi
<UbuPhillup> ballock: yes
<balloons> fkol_k4, teolemon_, we can just use IRC
<balloons> if you can't get the hangout to work
<UbuPhillup> balloons: i can hear you
<fkol_k4> IRC is ok by me;-)
<YoBoY> we can't hear the voice, only the chair moving and the keyboard :p
<hannie> and other noises ...
<hannie> hi godbyk:
<godbyk> hannie: Hi. I'm just hanging out with you guys while I wait for the next session to start. :)
<hannie> ok, I will join the docs session as well
<hannie> this hangout isn't working Iá¸¿ afraid
<YoBoY> you are alone I think, if it's balloons the other person he said is mute/vid off
<teolemon> my connexion is going crazy
<balloons> I closed the hangout as it seems to not work for folks
<godbyk> hannie: I can hear you (I assume) asking if Jack can say something. But beyong that I can only hear typing on a keyboard and some horrible noise.
<teolemon> i'm trying to rejoin
<balloons> just utilize IRC :-)
<hannie> oops, why don't we just chat?
<balloons> you've got 30 mins left to chat
<UbuPhillup> so is there no Â»Growing a strong translation communityÂ« now ?
<teolemon_> lol
<hannie> godbyk: I have no idea why this isn't working
<YoBoY> yes we hear you
<YoBoY> yes we hear you
<hannie> YoBoY: who do you hear?
<YoBoY> someone talking ^^
<YoBoY> don't know the name
<hannie> a man's voice?
<YoBoY> woman
<hannie> Ah, I think I am the only one you can hear. Where are the others?
<YoBoY> yes, you are alone like I said
<UbuPhillup> your not live
<hannie> It's lonely at the top :)
<YoBoY> teolemon_, have connection problems, and noone else joined the hangout
<fkol_k4> All i can hear is some typing.
<hannie> Well, in the meantime, do you have the roadmap ready?
<hannie> https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Xzp6depA75AZ7m5M8y29AJarrjWHi7GR0efF8xrBA4/edit#heading=h.7ogdjmtk0rin
<fkol_k4> I can hear the question 'can anyone hear me?'
<UbuPhillup> very very intersting session
<hannie> fkol_k4: I'm afraid my phrase is repeating itself. No idea how to stop it
<teolemon_> let's give up on hangout
<teolemon_> and do this on irc
<YoBoY> +1
<YoBoY> hannie, just quit the hangout and join again perhaps
<fkol_k4> hannie: lol, better than nothing:-D
<hannie> +1
<teolemon_> so basically
<teolemon_> we've made a detailed roadmap
<hannie> ok, I quit the hangout
<teolemon_> there's still to stuff to sort out
<teolemon_> but he need to focus on 3 things
<teolemon_> how to capture new members
<teolemon_> how to make them grow into fully fledged translators
<teolemon_> and how to avoid loosing them
<teolemon_> the problem is that #1 is not working
<teolemon_> #2 is somewhat working
<teolemon_> and #3 costs us many good people
<teolemon_> who move on to other things
<teolemon_> because there's a feeling we're not making progress
<teolemon_> we're unsupported
<teolemon_> and so on
<hannie> Isn't it the responsibility of the local translation teams to find translators and guide newcomers?
<teolemon_> it's always good to feel you're part of something that's working well
<teolemon_> I'd say yes
<UbuPhillup> hannie: the german team think like that
<teolemon_> but it's not only the role of local teams
<hannie> I think Ubuntu translators should help local teams
<teolemon_> we all make mistakes
<teolemon_> as an individual
<teolemon_> as a team
<teolemon_> but the more individuals
<teolemon_> and the more teams
<teolemon_> the less we make mistakes
<teolemon_> and the more we can learn from one another
<teolemon_> good practises are fragmented between teams
<teolemon_> there's incredible stuff from the hr team
<teolemon_> the nl team
<teolemon_> but other teams might not use it.
<teolemon_> The idea of the roadmap
<teolemon_> is to make sure we communicate often and well
<hannie> I see Ubuntu Translators as the coordinating team, helping local teams to solve technical issues etc.
<teolemon_> and share those practises
<teolemon_> providing the ressources for local teams
<teolemon_> and mutualizing effort
<UbuPhillup> hannie: +1
<teolemon_> something that works in a team should be shared with others
<teolemon_> we're not going to rewrite 160 different guidelines
<teolemon_> any thoughts on that ?
<teolemon_> any divergences ?
<hannie> I suggest we find people to staff the ubuntu Translators team
<fkol_k4> What do you mean by 'ressources' for a translation team?
<hannie> Once we have a group of enthousiastic people, this group can tackle the roadmap. What do you think?
<YoBoY> ubuntu translators is more an empty shell, there is no clear lead. Perhaps we can create a board to lead all the teams, follow this roadmap and mae things appen ?
<teolemon_> we should try and do a spreasheet of what we have
<teolemon_> for instance
<teolemon_> French team
<YoBoY> o/
<teolemon_> we have we have a list of ubuntu-specific packages
<teolemon_> that's up to date
<teolemon_> we have a good deck of slides
<teolemon_> regarding translations
<teolemon_> and so on
<teolemon_> we have content on topic 1
<teolemon_> 2 or 3
<teolemon_> YoBoY
<teolemon_> it's not an empty shell
<teolemon_> there are translation coordinators
<YoBoY> sorry :p
<hannie> so, we need people to coordinate those things
<UbuPhillup> teolemon_: who?
<teolemon_> (I was accepted today by the way)
<teolemon_> so me
<YoBoY> congrats :)
<teolemon_> to begin with :-)
<hannie> nice, teolemon_: congratulations
<teolemon_> and it's not only about the coordinators
<teolemon_> they have very specific powers
<UbuPhillup> is there a list of paople
<teolemon_> it's about mapping ressources in each team
<teolemon_> as well as best practises
<hannie> So why not ask all local team leads to join?
<teolemon_> see which one we can mutualize to execute
<teolemon_> on the roadmap
<teolemon_> ideally
<teolemon_> yes
<teolemon_> I'd want for each strong team a point of contact
<teolemon_> that's why we're going to do a HealthCheck
<YoBoY> UbuPhillup, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translations-coordinators
<teolemon_> which will be a simple survey
<teolemon_> to see what is done in each team
<teolemon_> what they have
<UbuPhillup> YoBoY: okey thanks
<teolemon_> what they use and don't use
<teolemon_> etc
<teolemon_> we'll get a clear idea of which team are actives
<teolemon_> how many people, how many technical peopleâ¦
<teolemon_> then
<YoBoY> teolemon_, a team contact like for the locoteams with the loco council ?
<teolemon_> once we map out the content and ressources
<teolemon_> yes, we have a list
<hannie> with "we" you mean the current Translations coordinators?
<teolemon_> everybody
<teolemon_> translation coordinators areâ¦
<teolemon_> coordinators
<teolemon_> they just have administrative prerogatives on launchpad
<teolemon_> and forward bugs
<teolemon_> to the right people
<teolemon_> the work is done by anyone willing to take a little time each week
<YoBoY> perhaps like the locoteams "approval process" you/wa can make an healthcheck on some translation teams on each cycleâ¦
<teolemon_> no approval process
<teolemon_> but we'll be doing regular healthchecks
<teolemon_> yes
<hannie> ok, that's a good starting point
<teolemon_> so going back
<teolemon_> once we map out the content and ressources
<teolemon_> we need to decide what we're going to standardize on
<teolemon_> set OKRs for all teams
<teolemon_> all teams should be aware and promote the stats tool
<teolemon_> all teams should have a point of contact
<teolemon_> etc
<teolemon_> obviously, it's a stretch goal
<fkol_k4> OKRs?
<hannie> OKRs?
<teolemon_> objectives
<teolemon_> (and key results)
<teolemon_> basically
<teolemon_> we aim at 80% of teams using Nightmonkey
<teolemon_> and so on
<teolemon_> so basically a measurable objective
<teolemon_> we need to define those as a group
<teolemon_> based on what we want to achieve in the roadmap.
<teolemon_> so to wrap up:
<hannie> Nightmonkey is only for DDTP, right. Or can it handle other things?
<teolemon_> only for the DDTP
<hannie> ok
<teolemon_> it was just an example
<teolemon_> 1. We need to launch the health survey
<teolemon_> 2. Get the results
<teolemon_> 3. Define in a future weekly meeting what we want to achieve based on the answers
<teolemon_> 4. Start executing
<teolemon_> We'll talk tomorrow in hopefully a better session about
<hannie> weekly? that's too much
<teolemon_> biweekly
<teolemon_> typo
<teolemon_> sorry
<UbuPhillup> teolemon_: a irc meeting or hangout?
<teolemon_> the portal
<teolemon_> and the technical means to achieve this
<hannie> no more hangouts for me, thank you.....
<teolemon_> We actually had a good hangout on Friday
<teolemon_> IRC or hangout is fine with me
<teolemon_> hangout brings more lively discussions
<hannie> You could ask via the mailing list who prefers what
<teolemon_> yes
<hannie> and why
<teolemon_> can we still talk ?
<teolemon_> yes :-D
<hannie> I think so
<UbuPhillup> or we can go to #ubuntu-translators
<teolemon_> yes
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Weekly Community Q+A Hangout | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21799/qa/
<teolemon_> i think that's a good idea
<hannie> teolemon_: why didn't the other Translations coordinators join this session?
<teolemon_> we're expelled of the room anyway
<hannie> ok
<teolemon_> let's convene in ubuntu-translators
<hannie> see you there
<sebsebseb> hi
<rickspencer3> o/
<sebsebseb> do I need to log into Launchpad to see the thing or not?
<sebsebseb> I guess not
<rickspencer3> ftr, that is jono's incredibly loud keyboard
<olli> sebsebseb, nope
<sebsebseb> altough video not working
<sebsebseb> for me
<sebsebseb> is it on ?
<olli> just takes a sec for the streams to come on
<olli> nope
 * rickspencer3 drums fingers
<sebsebseb> Please stand by, starting soon
<sebsebseb> that's what I got
<rickspencer3> hi sebsebseb it says "On Air" so should be there soon
<olli> sebsebseb, yep, give Jono a sec to comb his hair
<fisch246> it's live
<sebsebseb> rickspencer3: it says live on it sure
<sebsebseb> ok not started properly yet ok
<netcurli> we can see you now
<sebsebseb> that would explain it
<olli> sebsebseb, stream started just now
<sebsebseb> ok got it now :)
<sebsebseb> working :)
<logx> we can see you
<sebsebseb> why not using  Ubuntu On Air website for this one? since UDS?
<ZHL> Why my laptop is still overheat in ubuntu 13.04... but it doesn`t overheat at ubuntu 11.10 ?
<rickspencer3> so, that means I will get, essentially, zero questions :)
<sebsebseb> oh so I got to log in to launchpad then it seems again right
<Tralala> I get "Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again."
<sebsebseb> an error occured please try again later
<sebsebseb> with video
<sebsebseb> just me ?
<FlyingPig> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
<FlyingPig> :(
<jonobacon> hmmm
<sebsebseb> FlyingPig: you got error to?
<jonobacon> feel free to ask your questions here and I will add them to the pad
<FlyingPig> yes
<jonobacon> just use QUESTION to ask it
<sebsebseb> jonobacon: yep that will work when the video is back up :d
<bashrc> makes sense
<sebsebseb> still issues with that
<sebsebseb> ok back
<ZHL> in which channel Jono will answer to our questions ?
 * sebsebseb goes to check pizza. doesnt' want burnt pizza!
<fisch246> jonobacon: "famous musician" I wish...
<FlyingPig> QUESTION: Will you also answer questions in the IRC for those who can't log in to etherpad?
<jonobacon> folks, just ask your questions here - prefix with QUESTION
<jonobacon> FlyingPig: yes
<FlyingPig> good :)
<FlyingPig> thanks
<ZHL> Question: Why my laptop is still overheat in ubuntu 13.04... but it doesn`t overheat at ubuntu 11.10 ?
<TuhinBagh> Hello sir, I used wubi to installed 13.04!
 * sebsebseb is back with pizza :d
<zebaszp> I want pizza!
<fisch246> same here
<TuhinBagh> Guys do youtube tends to lag in full screen mode in ubuntu 13.10..??
<gabykant> Hello everybody
<Tralala> ME: hey question about .. bla bla bla? JONO: well, you know Community... ME: aha and that means? JONO: Community dute!
<Zeeshi7897> Ubuntu Can Have A Functionality like Wine for windows and Mac Both
<TuhinBagh> I like unity!! I mean i don't hate changes like windows8... But plz plz launch a official WUBI
<TuhinBagh> QUESTION:Â I like unity!! I mean i don't hate changes like windows8... But plz plz launch a official WUBI
<gabykant> Please I can't follow you
<fisch246> TuhinBagh: it was deprecated because of Windows 8. It was literally deleting Ubuntu that existed inside the same partition.
<gabykant> can you bring this video on youtube after?
<fkol_k4> Jono: We cannot get accepted for presentations to educational institutions such as highschools or universities, because the ministry of education cannot allow to just 'a bunch of guys running Ubuntu' to enter such an institution.
<TuhinBagh> @fisch246 I managed to install using WUBI though, using that backside link
<TuhinBagh> it works.. Only thing, does it lags youtube in fullscreen mode..?
<cyber> what about game on linux ?
<TuhinBagh> Steam is already out!!!!!
<fisch246> QUESTION: What are Ubuntu devs that I can follow on G+ that are public profiles? I want updates from the devs themselves without invading their privacy and private lives.
<Bryan> It took a while for wine to run current versions of office. Â Is it a focus to keep support for this, and does office 2010 run well on wine right now (I havent tried yet - just read about it briefly)?
<cyber> yes but about getting newer games then there is
<RichieB> Is Unity 8 going to get an actual window manager for the desktop? If so, how soon?
<sebsebseb> QUESTION for both: How would you recommend people contribute for the first time, or contribute more to open source or free software. I don't mean just code, I mean in general all ways it can be done.
<RichieB> QUESTION: Is Unity 8 going to get an actual window manager for the desktop? If so, how soon?
<franco> A question here!
<fisch246> QUESTION: Now when it comes to careers at Canonical info, it's easy to find, and easy to find out what they're looking for. However my question is, do you have any advice on how to stand out?
<cyber> QUESTION: what about getting better games to linux i think your OS will get many on the linux
<logx> QUESTION:Â What happens when other desktop environments change to Wayland, would they get incompatible with e.g. Kubuntu?
<zebaszp> lol
<logx> QUESTION:Â Can you give an update on the Core Apps progress?
<sebsebseb> QUESTION for both:  If you know about it, what do you think of Google Glass? Especially when it comes to any privacy concerns.
<bashrc> Celebrations?
<Debaru> klllk
<fisch246> jonobacon: my question is asked twice on the etherpad. starts with "now when it comes to careers..."
<Gotango> crickets...
<cyber> just me how can see them
<zebaszp> a bunch of sutff was duplicated, lol
<snwh> I want my Ubuntu blender
<bashrc> will it blend?
<fisch246> snwh: will it blend?
<FlyingPig> QUESTION: What is the state of Ubuntu for belt buckles?
<nshiell> ubuntu fridge
<snwh> with an apport dialog
<Bryan> QUESTION: Â any plans for an ubuntu domain controller? Â I know there was one before but that project I think fell by the wayside
<nshiell> video feed keeps on cutting out
<bashrc> same here
<Tralala> QUESTION: EA Games still working on stuff to be brought to Ubuntu?
<nshiell> i like music theory!
<zebaszp> who's typing in the same questions over and over again?
<zebaszp> jono, rickspencer3, are you re-adding questions to the pad?
<olli> rickspencer3, zebaszp possibly 13.10, for sure by14.04
<rickspencer3> zebaszp, I'm not, not sure about jono, though
<zebaszp> given the text color, I guess jono :P
<sebsebseb> Question to both: Have you got a Rassbery Pi,  if so, what do you do with it?
<nshiell> QUESTION: is the new SDK the prefered way to develop pps?
<fisch246> he's most likely pasting without realizing he didn't have the correct question in the clipboard
<nshiell> *apps
<sebsebseb> ah video gone down
<sebsebseb> again
<fisch246> yea google i/o is starting up again
<sebsebseb> ok back after a reload :)
<ubuntu-seb> good evening
<cyber> not
<zebaszp> we're doing pretty good so far
<fisch246> jonobacon: moved duplicate to asked section. as for "rocking the questions", I wrote notes, so I'm a bit prepared.
<snwh> one word: steam
<zebaszp> carmack's a dick
<dshimer> QUESTION: Not into games but a previous question made me wonder.  Does convergence adversly affect the game services that are signing on.
<snwh> surely the solution is to make games cross-platform from the get-go
<zebaszp> jono! stahp duplication questions in the pad!
<zebaszp> *duplicating
<jonobacon> I am not duping questions
<jonobacon> I am putting them there so I can read them out
<zebaszp> but I put them there first
<zebaszp> or you do, but you add them twice
<zebaszp> STAHP :P
<zebaszp> also, check your section
<number22> hello
<fisch246> just let jono mess around with the pad.
<zebaszp> NO, I like the pad! it's MINE! XD
<nshiell> QUESTION: are GTK apps like GIMP going to work on MIR?
<zebaszp> that calendar looks pretty
<zebaszp> nshiell, I think so, GTK should be ported to Mir soon if not already
<bashrc> Microsoft Grey!
<zebaszp> poor babby :(
<zebaszp> I just realized, DuckDuckGo t-shirt, nice rickspencer3
<bashrc> QUESTION: What happened to workspaces in 13.04? i.e. CTRL+ALT+arrows
<zebaszp> disabled by default, bashrc
<rickspencer3> :)
<zebaszp> you can enable them in the appearance config
<nshiell> def
<nshiell> i liked the 2D pannel
<bashrc> ok
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
<rickspencer3> hey, for the workspace question, you can turn them on in settings
<zebaszp> how can someone be unimpressed with an LCD belt buckle?
<rickspencer3> thanks everyone
<zebaszp> bye!
<number22> see ya
<zebaszp> thanks!
<bashrc> bye
<zebaszp> you didn't read the "Someone's behind you" :(
<pepe> bye
<Gotango> parties over ciao!
<zebaszp> anyway, it was fun as always, thanks jonobacon and rickspencer3
<zebaszp> time for foods! and perhaps some I/O :P
<IdleOne> We see you
<Gotango> i know , cant find the door. Dropped my glasses :P
<Gotango> ah! found them ! bye bye ...
 * pulsewound slaps cjohnston around a bit with a large trout
 * pulsewound slaps Cracknel around a bit with a large trout
 * pulsewound slaps FlyingPig around a bit with a large trout
<Cracknel> ?
<jono> join us for today's post UDS social beer hangout - feel free to join us at  https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2e35c93b7aca2d5bc4ce8eeaae65aba61ae84205?authuser=0&hl=en or watch at http://youtu.be/xF3SCZ7QFhA
<sebsebseb> jono: oh
<sebsebseb> jono: is there a cahnnel for that to? or is that just #ubuntu-uds ?
<jono> sebsebseb, nope, just hanging
<jono> come and join us
<jono> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2e35c93b7aca2d5bc4ce8eeaae65aba61ae84205?authuser=0&hl=en
<sebsebseb> jono: nah just watching
<sebsebseb> jono: or more like listenign mainly soon
<sebsebseb> since  got some other stuff I want to do :d
<sebsebseb> jono: another time you might get me on something though, depends
<IdleOne> rickspencer3: squirrel sorta tastes like cat
<rickspencer3> hi IdleOne
<rickspencer3> noted
<rickspencer3> lol
<IdleOne> :)
<IdleOne> jono: jack wants daddy to pick him up
#ubuntu-uds-community-2 2013-05-16
<leoquant> ah its utc..:/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Localizing the Q&A Systems | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21834/community-1305-q+a-systems-localization/
<UbuPhillup> hi
<balloons> hello everyone
<DanChapman> balloons: hi
<balloons> I've started up the hangout
<balloons> who all needs to be in the session?
<balloons> JoseeAntonioR, you here?
<JoseeAntonioR> balloons: it was basically jono and I
<JoseeAntonioR> balloons: yep, I'm almost ready
<balloons> http://youtu.be/GYwZKtOEsH8
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a36610cf64e5188542cb2a2916ed4832a29ebdf2?authuser=2&hl=en
<JoseeAntonioR> balloons: I was about to tell you to not link publicly but anyways :)
<balloons> heh
<JoseeAntonioR> joining in 2-3 mins
<jono> JoseeAntonioR, I won't be able to join the session
<YoBoY> hi
<UbuPhillup> hi YoBoY
<JoseeAntonioR> hey, YoBoY
<UbuPhillup> when the session will start?
<balloons> ok should be live now :-)
<JoseeAntonioR> UbuPhillup: live now :)
<YoBoY> it's live for me too
<UbuPhillup> yes for me too
<fkol_k4> i can see you too
<YoBoY> yes, english only for a tool who is promoted everywhere now, it's bad for foreign users :]
<JoseeAntonioR> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Q&A/Localization
<UbuPhillup> german
<JoseeAntonioR> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QandALocalization
<YoBoY> french :D
<JoseeAntonioR> There's a little bit of delay on the thingy :)
<JoseeAntonioR> ubuntu.shapado.com
<YoBoY> I like the idea to have finaly a localised tool from ubuntu.com
<fkol_k4> who is going to create thh localised vrsion of AskUbuntu?
<UbuPhillup> hmm thats a nice idea, but the german community have a very big own support page
<fkol_k4> *the :-D
<YoBoY> UbuPhillup, the french community too, but we are missing actually a Q&A tool, I think it's really more efficient than a forum. And we don't have the ressources to have our own right now
<UbuPhillup> YoBoY: okey
<fkol_k4> a localised Q&A is good for answer archive, and relieving our forums. I know that the Greek translators will help, but we are low on coding manpower. Will there be templates ready?
<UbuPhillup> if i go to ubuntu.shapado.com i see a white page
<UbuPhillup> okey i chromium it worked
<UbuPhillup> *it
<YoBoY> how this Q&A system will be integratd with the other support sessources ? askubuntu have bad integration with ubuntu.com for example, and I really don't like to send people somewhere without having a link for them to go back or to find more ressources
<JoseeAntonioR> any more doubts/questions/suggestions/anything you want to discuss?
<YoBoY> ok
<JoseeAntonioR> if not I'll just wrap it up
<fkol_k4> can it work with ubuntu sso account?
<UbuPhillup> when it will be ready to use?
<YoBoY> How this new q&a can be promoted on ubuntu.com website and on the ISO where localised ressources are so dably hightlited ?
<YoBoY> only this page http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/local-language
<fkol_k4> how can we track the progress?
<JoseeAntonioR> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1305-q+a-systems-localization
 * YoBoY counting "one hangout error" (new game of the day :D)
<JoseeAntonioR> :P
<fkol_k4> subscribed already, thanks!
<JoseeAntonioR> any other questions you may have?
<YoBoY> no more question for now
<UbuPhillup> yes everthing is fine
<fkol_k4> everything fine here too!
<YoBoY> ok, thank you for holding this session and for your work :)
<UbuPhillup> JoseeAntonioR: thanks
<JoseeAntonioR> :)
<JoseeAntonioR> you're welcome
<JoseeAntonioR> I hope this can really be done soon
<UbuPhillup> yeah
<YoBoY> I just want to add, this kind of localised tool can be really usefull for starting loco/language community teams who don't already have a well established website, ressources, etcâ¦
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Enabling local subteams | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21835/community-1305-enabling-local-subteams/
<balloons> rrnwexec, you want into the hangout?
<rrnwexec> yes please.
<balloons> for whomever needs it.. hangout is up: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/88071639044fa4733f799fc40426f337870537b1?authuser=2&hl=en
<fisch246> i'm someone who wants to start a substeam. should i join the hangout?
<fisch246> subteam*
<fisch246> balloons: check my irc message please
<balloons> fisch246, definitely
<balloons> the more the merrier
<balloons> rrnwexec, doesn't want to feel alone in here :-)
<coolbhavi> balloons, I want to join in too
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/88071639044fa4733f799fc40426f337870537b1?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> anyone who wishes to join, please do so
<balloons> we'll start in a minute
<coolbhavi> I am updating the plugins so in a bit ll be able to join
<YoBoY> ok, it's live :)
<UbuPhillup> yes live
<balloons> remember to turn on your lower third guys :-)
<czajkowski> coolbhavi: you joinging ?
<coolbhavi> yes in a bit
<czajkowski> balloons: want to have members of the loco council on :)
<balloons> czajkowski, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/88071639044fa4733f799fc40426f337870537b1?authuser=2&hl=en
<YoBoY> I think it's good an bad at the same time to have teams at the same level as the country/loco teams. Not easy to explain, but for a strong loco/country team, they can have these teams on the country and work with them, promote them, etcâ¦ but where the loco/country team is weak, a strong city/region/whatever team can kill this loco by not participating in it too.
 * tiagoscd agree YoBoY 
<tiagoscd> here on Brazil we have twenty-seven LoCo subteams
 * YoBoY have to take a break T_T
<BobJonkman1> I disagree with YoBoY - if the country LoCo is weak then a strong city/region LoCo may be all that keeps the community alive in that country.
<czajkowski> I think regions/provences/states within a country can work
<tiagoscd> and is a very hard work to keep it working. now thinking in cities, towns and villages, I think that should be yet more hard to coordinate
<czajkowski> and using the parent loco as the main looc channel and mailing list
<tiagoscd> czajkowski: +1
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: +1
<czajkowski> so in no way getting rid of a way to mentor young locos within the country loco
<czajkowski> but also foster a "fostering" loco
<czajkowski> so for example lets just take france YoBoY do no panic
<czajkowski> France is the mother loco :)
<czajkowski> and then you could in theory split it into states
<czajkowski> doesnt mean you have to have every single state created in one go
<tiagoscd> well, the UDS during work time is impractible for me :( I need to go
<czajkowski> and the mother loco helps the state one at the same time
<tiagoscd> see you gurs
<tiagoscd> *guys
<czajkowski> but leaves them able to run  more local events
<BobJonkman1> +1 for everything czajkowski says, but applied at the city level instead of state
<dscassel_> I feel like I'm maintaining two separate teams: Ubuntu Canada, the online team and Ubuntu Kitchener-Waterloo, the in-person team.
<czajkowski> balloons: see I'd say no for city
<czajkowski> BobJonkman1:
<czajkowski> damn tab completion gets me every time
<balloons> :-)
<dscassel_> Both the online team and the in-person team are valuable, and one helps the other. But they're two largely separate things.
<czajkowski> dscassel_: yes so again using the main country as the main channel
<czajkowski> to help one another
<dscassel_> czajkowski: Yup! But I'd like to have a place for Ubuntu Kitchener-Waterloo events to be recognized somewhere.
<dscassel_> And giving people Ubuntu Toronto or Ubuntu Ottawa a thing to take credit for.
<czajkowski> dscassel_: still on the ltp
 * YoBoY back
<YoBoY> broken audio too
<SergioMeneses> YoBoY, :S
<czajkowski> so far nobody seems 100% sold on the idea either
<YoBoY> each one have his point of view depending how they live their ubuntu advocacy/promoting experience :)
<YoBoY> mine is more an online french promotion 14/7 + events sometimes, the teams more localised in France are doing events too, but less this online global promotion, it's more localised in their area, but they know we are doing the promotion for them too
<YoBoY> 24/7
<cheesehead> 14/7 seems relaxed. I'd prefer that.
<YoBoY> :p
<cprofitt> I have to break away for an emergency... sorry
<cheesehead> So far, I see the purpose of LoCo structure is to 1) Prevent confusion, 2) distribute swag.  What else am I missing?
<YoBoY> What is different for a french person who wants to start a local team is, he don't go to the loco council, he go to us, the loco, and we just say "GO, what do you need" :). But for english teamsâ¦ the entity promoted for that is the loco council, and the answer is clearly not the same and it's normal
<cheesehead> Reason for question: Is the same structure appropriate for both(all) purposes?
<fisch246> cheesehead: it's for like minded individuals to gather, and/or to share ubuntu to the community.
<cheesehead> fisch246: Right - that's the goal of the LoCo. I's asking about the purpose of the structure....I like that answer though!
<cheesehead> 3) Protect the Ubuntu name/trademark
<fisch246> cheesehead: ah i see what you mean. it's not always to prevent confusion. the purpose is objective, but the structure is subjective.
<cheesehead> fisch246: Right. I deal a lot with various structures. This kind of discussion happens sometimes when an appropriate structure for one purpose is misapplied to another purpose.
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamsBestPracticesandGuidelines
<czajkowski> I'll update this wit the loco council
<cheesehead> For example, my (unverified) LoCo cares nothing about swag, so we're happy to stay unverified.
<czajkowski> cheesehead: yeah which is good
<czajkowski> some teams lkike it
<czajkowski> me I liek reading the wiki applications
<czajkowski> you should see some of the workd teams do
<czajkowski> love pictures :)
<YoBoY> (what is swag Â¬_Â¬)
<cheesehead> YoBoY: Sorry for the slang. "swag" = giveaways, usually from a company
<BobJonkman1> YoBoY: swag is free gifts, like CDs or banners
<YoBoY> ok
<YoBoY> thanks everyone :)
<czajkowski> You can reach the council via mail: loco-council<at>lists.ubuntu.com
 * YoBoY needs to watch again this session to have the missing parts ^^"
<balloons> plars, you have someone hosting this ubuntu touch image testing session/
<plars> balloons: I just need the link
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Client | Ubuntu Touch Image Testing | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21828/client-s-ubuntu-touch-image-testing/
<gema> o/
<gema> who's driving the hangout?
<balloons> plars, yes, I just want to know if I need to host or not
<balloons> since this is under client
<plars> balloons: ah, yes if you could
<plars> balloons: I don't know how that's decided, tbh
<plars> balloons: is there a different track lead who needs to create the client track ones? can't remember who's done it on here before
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6e57c6187df997f399143e2d20784def48c96783?authuser=2&hl=en
<plars> actually, this one is on community track
<plars> so I think that *is* you :)
<plars> joining
<gema> thomi: are you joining?
<thomi> gema: if you want me to?
<gema> thomi: please
<rsalveti> not live yet
<gema> we are
<rsalveti> following this one via youtube
<gema> rsalveti: ack, feel free to join if you want
<balloons> sergiusens, did we finish our discussion about having the touch images under saucy milestone?
<sergiusens> balloons: it's ok... we are migrating
<balloons> sergiusens, excellent.. I assumed so but I can't remember if I heard back from you or not?
<balloons> :-)
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: is there any work being done to make an Intel-based Ubuntu Touch image so that we can more easily virtualize it?
<rickspencer3> I'm thinking about running tests in the data center and on developer desktops
<balloons> sergiusens, one more thing while we're talking about it.. I can mark the "Quantal Ubuntu Touch Final" milestone as complete now yes? that means no more results can be reported to that milestone
<gema> thomi: thanks for your answer
<rickspencer3> well, I guess the "Intel-based" part was a red-herring
<rickspencer3> I guess I want us to be able to run our touch images in the cloud
<rickspencer3> and I thought that it was easier to do that with Intel images
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: can we run ubuntu touch tests in our testing cloud today?
<rickspencer3> Google found that 95% of the bugs that tests found are not hardware dependent when testing android
<rickspencer3> you need real hardware testing, but for CI I don't think you need to run that on real hardware, and this is what Google QA found as well
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: we have CI sort of covered, the problem is the final image testing after integrating
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> understood
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: just shared a few pages of "how google tests code" with you for when you have time
<rickspencer3> but I guess I thought testing the full stack in a parallized manner in our cloud before we push images to hardware seems faster
<rickspencer3> thanks sergiusens
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: the parallelized thing is a feature I want to see in autopilot (client - server) to push suites to different devices in a pool
<rickspencer3> there is no point in testing an image if there are no indicators
<rickspencer3> gema, I disagree
<rickspencer3> I don't think an image without indicators is worth testing
<gema> rickspencer3: ok, so indicators are important, to which extent do we make sure they work to decide whether the image is worth further testing?
<gema> rickspencer3: do you want to join the hangout?
<rickspencer3> gema, no thanks, irc is fine
<gema> rickspencer3: ack
<rickspencer3> I just have a few points
<rickspencer3> we can discuss the depth of smoke tests later
<gema> rickspencer3: can you add them to the etherpad as well?
<gema> rickspencer3: indeed, we'll need to review the smoke tests we add an interate a few times to get them right
<balloons> if we compare this to iso smoke testing, we'd be looking to see the image is sane, can be installed, and the phablet device boots up
<gema> balloons: agreed
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: when does the image turn "green" on the dashboard? after it passes smoke tests, or after it passes regression tests?
<gema> rickspencer3: there'll be two different views
<gema> it'll be green in one and orange in the other, for instance
<gema> rickspencer3: and the KPI view (summary view) will have an o verall rating
<rickspencer3> yes~
<rickspencer3> no it's not
<rickspencer3> *everyday* Ubuntu should work
<rickspencer3> that's on the desktop, server, and Touch
<gema> rickspencer3: the problem is that "ubuntu works" means different things for different people
<rickspencer3> plars, ^
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: sort of a an unofficial rolling relase I would think
<sergiusens> _release_
<rickspencer3> sergiusens, right, we need to raise our game in daily quality now
<rickspencer3> exactly!
<balloons> indeed.. you have to define 'works'.. but in rickspencer3's case, I'm guessing he would include the smoke and essential tests to pass.. meaning, images work, boot, de's work, and default apps work (don't crash just by opening :-) )
<rickspencer3> no, it speeds the development
<rickspencer3> it slows development for the developer who wrote the buggy code
<rickspencer3> but when an image is busted, it goes slowly for everyone
<sergiusens> +1
<thomi> right
<rickspencer3> I think the desktop smoke tests have a lot of room for deeper and broader testing
<gema> rickspencer3: I absolutely agree
<gema> rickspencer3: on the other hand, running all the unit / integration tests from autopilot for smoke testing may be not be wise either
<gema> rickspencer3: trying to fing the right balance
<rickspencer3> I think that all regressions should result in code getting getting kicked out of the image
<gema> rickspencer3: agreed
<rickspencer3> I think the right balance is to absolutely not tolerate regressions
<rickspencer3> yeah
<balloons> work items time :-)
<balloons> sergiusens is going to feel lonely otherwise
<thomi> any questions?
<plars> good discussion, thanks everyone!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
<teolemon> helo
<teolemon> hello
<teolemon> hopefully things will be smoother today
<UbuPhillup> hi teolemon
<balloons> ok, try joining early
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/aa20339fb190a752484772753d8351b840718a2c?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> work out the kinks now :-)
<teolemon> are you joininh
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Track: Community | Scaling Translations using Tech | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21803/community-1305-scaling-translations-using-tech/
<asac> gema: plars: sergiusens: added a few post session comments - mostly on what i think on the x86 and emulator discussion
<plars> hi asac
<Henne91> Hey everybody
<UbuPhillup> hi Henne91
<balloons> hello all
<balloons> feel free to join
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/aa20339fb190a752484772753d8351b840718a2c?authuser=2&hl=en
<teolemon> hannie
<teolemon> UbuPhillup
<teolemon> are you joining ?
<UbuPhillup> teolemon: no sorry i can only watch ;(
<balloons> we'll start in just a moment
<Henne91> can hear you, need to check my mike
<Henne91> mic
<balloons> we should be live
<Henne91> yes, I can hear you
<UbuPhillup> i can see and hear you nice
<balloons> remember to stop the video for anyone is the hangout
<balloons> :-)
<UbuPhillup> yes
<sergiusens> asac: ack... I'll take a look
<Henne91> sorry, can't get it to work but I'm still listening
<Henne91> no you are not
<UbuPhillup> you can talk we can hear you ;)
<teolemon_> yes
<teolemon_> but there's no point talking alone
<teolemon_> so basically
<teolemon_> any launchpad dev in the room ?
<teolemon_> no ?
<balloons> teolemon_, I'll leave the hangout up until you tell me to shut it down if you don't need it
<teolemon_> we don't need it anymore
<teolemon_> nobody will join
<teolemon_> so useless
<balloons> teolemon_, sorry :-(
<Henne91> sry, it actually should work but it does not
<teolemon_> let's focus on the portal
<teolemon_> that's the only thing we can move forward as translators
<teolemon_> YoBoY
<teolemon_> would you be able to host us
<teolemon_> on your people.ubuntu.com space ?
<teolemon_> basically, what we're going to do is host it first on a personnal folder
<teolemon_> to have agility
<teolemon_> and no restrictions
<teolemon_> make an install
<teolemon_> give rights to all the active members
<teolemon_> (Hannie, Hendrik, if you're interested)
<Henne91> sure
<teolemon_> we'll use the same theme as the French translation portal
<teolemon_> which is working well
<teolemon_> traduire.ubuntu-fr.org
<teolemon_> if you want to have a look at it
<Henne91> looking good
<teolemon_> so basically, let's have a look at the note on the pad and let's expand
<UbuPhillup> Henne91: would be also a good think to have for the german community
<asac> sergiusens: that touch image testing session just ended ?
<Henne91> yes. is it using the default Ubuntu theme or is it modified?
<asac> you were still talking :)
<asac> (sorry for disturbing current session ... will move it offline)
<teolemon_> I was wondering about doing an international one
<sergiusens> asac: ended two hours ago
<teolemon_> translated in various languages
<teolemon_> including german french and dutch
<teolemon_> and having some team specific pages
<UbuPhillup> that would be nice
<teolemon_> so that we save on ressources
<teolemon_> maintenance time
<teolemon_> and when we write somethinbg
<teolemon_> or add a tool
<teolemon_> everybody benefits quicly
<teolemon_> quickly
<teolemon_> and have the pages translated using launchpad
<teolemon_> what do you think ?
<Henne91> teolemon_: Oh ok, so you mean completely combining everything. This way we could have an overview of packages that have to respect Upstream translations etc.
<Henne91> yes I think that's the right approach
<UbuPhillup> i think it would be a very good idea
<teolemon_> not sure what you mean by combining everything
<teolemon_> but one interface
<teolemon_> bridgin
<teolemon_> g
<Henne91> yes
<teolemon_> informational pages
<teolemon_> nightmonkey
<teolemon_> statistics
<teolemon_> a page a bit like UDS
<teolemon_> with a pad, irc
<teolemon_> and hangout
<teolemon_> for biweekly team meetings
<Henne91> ok, and every team would have to have a page for language-specific rules
<Henne91> translation rules
<teolemon_> yes
<teolemon_> hopefully
<teolemon_> over time
<teolemon_> we'll minimize the difference
<Henne91> yes
<teolemon_> it's basically having a place
<teolemon_> that makes us feel efficient
<teolemon_> not having to look for the info
<Henne91> and where we can attract some new translators
<teolemon_> make us look dynamic for potential
<teolemon_> yes
<teolemon_> that's it
<Henne91> ok, concerning the layout: I think we should maybe try to adapt to the standard Ubuntu layout to make it look uniform, but your layout basically does that I think
<teolemon_> yes, i took it from launchpad
<Henne91> what software are you using to run the page?
<teolemon_> it's an official template for community
<teolemon_> unfortunately drupal
<teolemon_> which is a pain in the ***
<teolemon_> but works ok
<teolemon_> and has the advantage of being a standard for ubuntu
<teolemon_> so more people ready to help us
<teolemon_> and having a ready made template
<Henne91> ok, I don't think it's to bad. I really like Joomla but Drupal is still better than Typo ;-)
<Henne91> if it's the Ubuntu standard we should stick with it
<teolemon_> hopefully we should have a plugin for multilingual
<teolemon_> site
<teolemon_> with po export
<teolemon_> and many plugins so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel
<teolemon_> YoBoY ?
<teolemon_> are you here ?
<Henne91> you mean a plugin with po export for Drupal?
<teolemon_> to basically export content in a po file
<teolemon_> put it up for translation on Launchpad
<teolemon_> and reimport it
<Henne91> oh I see
<teolemon_> and bang, content translated
<UbuPhillup> do you know a plugin for that ?
<teolemon_> i know that you can translate content within drupal
<teolemon_> and i think the loco team more or less works that way
<teolemon_> my guess would be: yes
<Henne91> drupal does export translations as po for modules as far as i can see
<UbuPhillup> okey
<Henne91> http://drupal.org/documentation/modules/locale
<Henne91> this module can import po translations
<Henne91> and it does export po files
<teolemon_> for content as well ?
<UbuPhillup> i think so
<teolemon_> coool
<teolemon_> :-)
<Henne91> it says "generating portable object files from your site's strings"
<teolemon_> so basically
<teolemon_> is any of you a ubuntu member
<teolemon_> with a peopleÂ£.ubuntu.com hosting ?
<Henne91> no
<UbuPhillup> no
<teolemon_> so basically
<teolemon_> either YoBoY says yes
<Henne91> but there was someone on the German translators team
<teolemon_> or we can morph the French portal in the international one
<teolemon_> during the test phase
<teolemon_> and then properly host it on the official servers
<Henne91> is there enough space to set up a second portal for testing?
<Henne91> so we don't break the French one
<teolemon_> we can do that as well
<teolemon_> or I can host it on my personnal server
<teolemon_> but I'd be more confident having something more or less ubuntu
<teolemon_> can the person on the German team host us
<Henne91> yes
<teolemon_> and be reactive ?
<Henne91> I'm not sure. I have to find out who it was first ;-)
<teolemon_> ^^
<Henne91> working on it
<UbuPhillup> or we can ask in german community mabe ubuntuusers.de have space for as
<teolemon_> i want as little bureaucracy as possible
<teolemon_> and reliable people
<teolemon_> if we need to install something
<teolemon_> or change something
<teolemon_> otherwise we'd be doing it with approval on canonical servers
<teolemon_> the French team can host us as well
<Henne91> they ubuntuusers folks are certainly reliabel but I'm not sure if they have any spare space
<teolemon_> I'm not sure which team is the most bureaucratif
<teolemon_> :-D
<UbuPhillup> or use http://translations.ubuntu.com/
<teolemon_> it's the canonical server
<teolemon_> it's a pain to change a single thing
<teolemon_> so until we have a V1
<teolemon_> to show them
<teolemon_> I'd prefer to do that on our own
<Henne91> I wouldn't put it on canonical's servers until it is done
<teolemon_> yes
<teolemon_> I already have editor rights
<teolemon_> but couldn't give be superadmin rights
<teolemon_> due to process
<teolemon_> and restrictions
<teolemon_> so let's agree on key points and wrap the session:
<Henne91> hm, I found the person who is an Ubuntu member but he is not on the team anymore
<teolemon_> ok
<Henne91> sry, go ahead
<teolemon_> i'll ping YoBoY
<teolemon_> 1. Package Manager Integration
<teolemon_> 1.1 I got mpt to promise a mockup of the UI
<Henne91> which UI?
<teolemon_> Software Centre
<teolemon_> 1.2 I have a scope developper interested in working on scope integration
<teolemon_> 1.3 I'll manage to convince mvo for synaptic :-)
<teolemon_> 2. Launchpad
<teolemon_> 2.1 Nothing.
<teolemon_> 3. Portal
<teolemon_> 3.1 Agreement on principle of a common portal with team specific pages
<teolemon_> 3.2 Agreement on the idea to bring various tools and content from various teams into one single portal
<teolemon_> 3.3 Said portal will enable productivity for exisiting translators and help attract new ones using a blog syndicated on planet
<teolemon_> 3.3 Pierre will contact this week the French teamto get a test portal up and running
<teolemon_> and finally 3.4
<teolemon_> Hannie and Hendrik and Pierre and others, will do loads of tweaking until we have something beautiful to propose to the Ubuntu project
<Henne91> +1
<teolemon_> Anything to add ?
<Henne91> 2 things
<teolemon_> yes ?
<Henne91> First: I think 1.3 should be at the end of the list for us since we don't have unlimited ressources (especially time) and synaptic isn't installed by default. Software center is more important
<Henne91> Second: There is a global translation session next week, am I right on this?
<Henne91> If so, we should do some advertising to get some people together
<UbuPhillup> like yesterday we can go to #ubuntu-translators if time is up ;)
<teolemon_> a global translation session ?
<teolemon_> who organizes that ?
<Henne91> let me check real quick. I read this somewhere
<teolemon_> may I ask :-D ?
<teolemon_> global jam session ?
<Henne91> maybe locos?
<Henne91> let#s talk about it in #ubuntu-translators since time is almost over
<Henne91> I think we can go with the points you mentioned above
<teolemon_> ok
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2
