#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-20
<vish> charlie-tca: hi.. we are getting quite a people interested in doing wallpapers and such.. the team should probably think up a theme or a direction the wallpaper you want..
<vish> highvoltage: too ^ ;)
<charlie-tca> thanks! I been watching the list, I think you are right. I hope we get something going there for all you guys.
<vish> yeah.. looks like the list just needed to be woken up.. ;)  hope more people raise their hands. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-22
<charlie-tca> hmm, They want to know if we can do an UbuntuOpenWeek session - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<charlie-tca> I know we can. Who wants to do it?
<charlie-tca> Opportunity knocking! let's get some exposure to the end users
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: I'm sorry, I have another conference around that time.
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> anything we want to talk about there?
<charlie-tca> or should I just babble?
<TheSheep> it's better to not do anything than to babble, imho
<charlie-tca> heh, I could see that
<TheSheep> some summary of what's new and whats coming would be nice
<charlie-tca> I guess I could work something up. I just thought it would be nice to get some more people involved in the talks
<TheSheep> it would, sorry again
<charlie-tca> No problem. When the first email came out, they asked specifically for new people to get involved, and that wasn't me
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, that seems to apply to most of us that do these sessions on a regular basis now.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, pleia2, cody-somerville, ochosi : any opinions on this? Anyone want to do the session? anyone want anything in particular brought up during the session?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: unfortunately I'm going to be out of the country that week on vacation w/ limited internet access
<charlie-tca> Well, got any ideas?
<pleia2> I think the "what's new" thing is good, and during my user days session on xfce people quite liked the screenshots and when I discussed how xubuntu is still kinda like old ubuntu (ships with gimp? didn't move the window control buttons? yay!)
<charlie-tca> Great! I will do the session, I suppose. I really want the exposure for xubuntu. Without these sessions, we kind of get lost in the users minds
<pleia2> yeah, and lately lxde/lubuntu has stolen some of xubuntu's thunder
<charlie-tca> true. We need to publicize more, I believe. 
<charlie-tca> OMG! I forgot about my internet connection crawling. Three installs at one time; down to 40kB/s
 * charlie-tca slaps head... good time lag on xchat too. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: did we have someone working on appindicator support for Xfce? 
<ochosi> hi charlie-tca 
<mr_pouit> hey
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit :)
<charlie-tca> Thaks, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> was away, just wanted to stop by for the session-thing
<charlie-tca> great!
<charlie-tca> You want to do it, or you got ideas?
<ochosi> if you need help/feedback on what you're planning for the session let me know
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> my problem is that during that week i'll be in germany
<ochosi> so most likely no interwebs...
<charlie-tca> hmm, where can I be... Everybody else is going to be somewhere :-)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> you're @home?
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> good ;)
<ochosi> *someone* always has to be
<charlie-tca> yeah, it is good to be at home sometimes 
<ochosi> if you want you could set up a wiki page for people to contribute ideas/materials for your talk
<charlie-tca> hmm, I hadn't thought of that. It is a good idea
<charlie-tca> A wiki page to put ideas for UbuntuOpenWeek session for Xubuntu - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/UbuntuOpenWeek
<charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yw
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-23
<ochosi> i just realized that gstreamer-ffmpeg  is not installed by  default in maverick, yet it is required for parole to play  videos, where do you want me to report the bug? parole?  xubuntu-*?
<charlie-tca> It is required?
<charlie-tca> Probably against parole, since if xubuntu does not install parole by default, it is still needed by it
<charlie-tca> It is a suggested for exaile
<charlie-tca> ochosi: should that be a depends or recommends for -restricted-extras, too?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: totem does have gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg as a suggested in Synaptic Package Manager. Can we do that for parole too?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah, I think (but not for maverick)
<charlie-tca> Thank you. We will accept it for natty
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-25
<charlie-tca> Hey! A little slow but working; Xubuntu Maverick installed using the desktop image on 400MHz cpu with 384 MB ram
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hey, updated your wiki page with a few suggestions
<charlie-tca> thank you
<knome> the links for the german mirror at http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu are false. the new path would be inside http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/
<charlie-tca> Thanks! cody-somerville ^ ^ ^ 
<charlie-tca> Can you update the website?
 * knome can't :)
<knome> anyway, see you
<charlie-tca> ochosi: you guys made the system tray icons mono. Now the updates available seems to stay the same, even when the updates are ready
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i don't get any update-notifications in my systray
<charlie-tca> you should. It still uses the gear thingy, but it doesn't turn orange now
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu still gets them, but Ubuntu doesn't
<charlie-tca> Not all the time, though. It gets shown about once a week now, I think
<ochosi> hm, weird
<ochosi> is there a setting that would influence this?
<ochosi> maybe only for security updates?
<charlie-tca> I don't know. I just know what I see, I guess. 
 * charlie-tca is probably not so much helpful with the stupid update thingy
<ochosi> hm, one more thing is: we have monochrome systray icons, i don't see a reason we should color the updates-icon, especially if it only appears every once in a while
<ochosi> also: we're past the freeze, only if you consider this a critical bug it can be fixed for maverick
<charlie-tca> because; it comes on to show the system is checking for updates. When it finishes checking, it needs to show it has updates. If there are none, it goes away when the check is finished
<charlie-tca> Yes, it is critical. You can not do any updating or installations during the checking period of time,.
<charlie-tca> And, you could now wait days for it to say it finished, if there are updates.
<charlie-tca> That would seem critical to me. Especially if you are the type that installs any applications after the installation of Xubuntu. You can not do any until the update is finished
<ochosi> as far as i can see we're not even shipping that icon in elementaryXubuntu, so the icon comes from the elementary icon theme
<ochosi> but as i said before: i never see that icon, so it's hard to check for me
<ochosi> if you can find the icon for me in /usr/share/elementary i can try to fix it
<charlie-tca> ochosi: forgive me. I think my systems are too old and slow. I just got the update icon in orange
<ochosi> haha :) nvm
<Aquina> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-26
<charlie-tca> two weeks to Xubuntu 10.10! Testing the RC images this week
<highvoltage> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-19
<madnick> did someone add the new plymouth theme to the 11.04 images?
<madnick> Or did i download the wrong CD
<madnick> oh no, i did :P
<madnick> well then, might as well, try the Live CD on real hardware for production usage :)
<madnick> i broke the keyboard configuration :(
<charlie-tca> well, fix it please
<charlie-tca> micahg: thanks for your help 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: disregard above comments. I think we got something done that will work. see bug 845549 for comments.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
<olbi> hello :)
<olbi> 3 tests done yesterday
<mr_pouit> ugh, the solution chosen in Bug #845549 is... special
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
<mr_pouit> (a package only for only conffile? yay)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: agreed it is ugly, but at least it is a solution.
<charlie-tca> I wanted something that let's us get our wallpaper/theme in for beta2
<mr_pouit> well, I made another proposal
<mr_pouit> I hope he doesn't intend to upload what he described.
<charlie-tca> We will find out tonight
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, xubuntu-default-settings could provide the lightdm conffile
<micahg> oh, that would indeed break the second part :(
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, I though about that as well, but I'm still a bit annoyed by all these conflicts/replaces/provides
<mr_pouit> there are enough reasons to break upgrades ,>
<mr_pouit> (this one eyed smiley wasn't intended)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I didn't suggest that, I suggested using the same system the display managers use
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: if you have time, can you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Development/ReleaseProcess and give any advice?
<mr_pouit> micahg: oh, you wrote about the lightdm conffile, not lightm-gtk-greeter?
<micahg> mr_pouit: no, I was talking about the greeter
<mr_pouit> micahg: but then it would conflict with lightdm-gtk-greeter, and $whatever_name_other_derivatives_use
<micahg> mr_pouit: no, you can install gdm and lightdm at the same time, you get a debconf prompt to decide which one to run
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: how many people can update the website? (you might want to notify them sooner, probably T-7, it's not explicitly written, unless I missed it) So that you're sure it's up to date on release day.
<mr_pouit> (I remember news for one release were posted a few hours late in the past)
<mr_pouit> micahg: ok, I see what you mean.
<mr_pouit> as long as it avoids unneeded conflicts everywhere in the packages, I'm happy with any solution ;p
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you are correct. Thank you
<micahg> right, I thought my proposal made the most sense as you can install as many as you want and just dpkg-reconfigure to change
<mr_pouit> we're probably the only "users" for this bug/use case though (lubuntu stays with lxdm afaik)
<micahg> just for this cycle and due to these issues
<micahg> there's also mythubuntu and ubuntustudio who would probably like to customize
<charlie-tca> yes, most flavours are waiting for us to get things straightened out
 * charlie-tca would dare to say Xubuntu is the lightdm guinea pig
<mr_pouit> they let us do the painful work, that's nice :)
<charlie-tca> It's because they have great respect for mr_pouit and his knowledge
<mr_pouit> ahah =]
<mr_pouit> micahg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/mythbuntu-lightdm-theme/oneiric/view/head:/debian/postinst looks like mythbuntu didn't wait to do questionable things with dpkg-divert ;(
<mr_pouit> micahg: btw, feel free to add a comment with your solution to the bug report, the more (alternate proposals), the merrier :)
<charlie-tca> At least I got robert to comment and give us something this time 
<mr_pouit> yes, thank you (let's hope he'll continue)
<charlie-tca> He will if I push hard enough. He did tell me he wouldn't do anything, first
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
 * charlie-tca waves... meeting time :)
 * madnick reports in
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting Xubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 19:01:40 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<charlie-tca> #meetingname Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> The meeting name has been set to 'xubuntu_community_meeting'
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> #topic === Old Business ===
<charlie-tca> suggestion, if you are here for the meeting, use o/ or here or something so we log everyone
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> well, small group with a lot of important things to do!
<charlie-tca>  * charlie-tca to get FFe filed for xubuntu-meta to add blueman to seeds
<charlie-tca> micahg: did we decide if we need this yet?
<micahg> no, sorry, and I know we're getting close to the end here
<micahg> after reboot my bluetooth stopped working on my netbook as well, I have to reboot again to verify
<micahg> will try to do this week, not happening for beta 2
<micahg> ..
<charlie-tca> Okay, let's try not to forget then. 
<charlie-tca>  * charlie-tca to start a release checklist page for Xubuntu - Done
<charlie-tca>    * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Development/ReleaseProcess
<charlie-tca> Any one that wants to review that page and let me know what is missing is welcome to.
<charlie-tca> #topic === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Your turn, sir.
<mr_pouit> \o
<Unit193> Late, but here
<mr_pouit> * New upstream bugfix releases uploaded: libxfce4util, xfdesktop4, xfce4-session
<mr_pouit> * Build failures fixed: libxfcegui4, exo
<mr_pouit> * Misc uploads: xfce4-dev-tools, xfce4-utils, gigolo, xfwm4
<mr_pouit> * micahg converted gimp & catfish to dh_python2 (so probably some space gained on the isos \o/).
<mr_pouit> lightdm-gtk-greeter theming issue in progress, maybe :p
<charlie-tca> Yay! room for another language, maybe!
<mr_pouit> a new bugfix release of thunar is probably being prepared as we speak
<micahg> charlie-tca: doubtful, was small, but on the alternates we can probably add one more back
<mr_pouit> and I think that's all (micahg, feel free to add anything I forgot)
<mr_pouit> ..
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much. You developers have been busy this week
<madnick> o/
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> I have a question about some greeter related stuff for the LTS
<madnick> Should I save it for "other talk"?
<charlie-tca> Oh, go ahead while we have mr_pouit here
<madnick> Ok, can we use GTK + Webkit or GTK + mozembed?
<madnick> in C ofc
<micahg> madnick: mozembed is dead
<madnick> oh
<micahg> well, for Ubuntu at least :0
<madnick> It's a really clean way of making it very themable and also maintainably and changable for other releases
<madnick> Easy to theme for artists
<charlie-tca> not if it is dead, though
<madnick> Webkit is not dead tho
<micahg> we have no xulrunner anymore and it's probably not coming back
<charlie-tca> what about GTK+webkit? That should be okay, right?
<micahg> yeah, but webkit seems heavy for a greeter
<madnick> It was 2MB with O3 static linked
<mr_pouit> (it's already in the default install fwiw)
<micahg> madnick: it's on the images, I have no inherent problem with it expect if it's slow
<micahg> *except
<madnick> oh okay
<madnick> cool :)
<micahg> madnick: and we're not static linking :)
<mr_pouit> there was a webkit greeter in the eraly versions of lightdm, but apparently it's not included by default anymore
<mr_pouit> *early
<madnick> yup
<madnick> But its doable :P
<madnick> at mr_pouit *
<charlie-tca> Yeah, lot of changes in lightdm, and more coming :)
<charlie-tca> Any other comments/questions for Packaging and Development?
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> Thanks to the testers for their efforts Saturday and Sunday. Gnome updates started today.
<charlie-tca> We know the images from yesterday are valid, if we have to fall back to them
<charlie-tca> Beta2 testing starts tomorrow; please update tests on the QA ISO tracker at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> Beta2 testing requires the long test for Xubuntu, found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Long
<charlie-tca> Any help with getting these tests done would be greatly appreciated!
<charlie-tca> This is the last milestone before we get the final images
<GridCube> o/  : beta2 tests days are 20 and 21?
<charlie-tca> yes, they are
<charlie-tca> Beta2 releases on Thursday, September 22
<GridCube> :) ok, 21 is Spring Day so no schools are open :D
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> Today's images are for smoketesting, which we did, so I did not call for tests today
<charlie-tca> They will be rebuilt today/tonight, though
<charlie-tca> We are tracking the Oneiric bugs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot
<charlie-tca> Let's make sure we keep adding the bugs to this.
<charlie-tca> Any questions or comments for testing?
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> Go ahead, madnick 
<GridCube> I'll leave mine for Other Bussiness
<madnick> I installed the Oneric image from yesterday, could someone check if:
<madnick> Its replicatable to double click on a langauge of the keymap selection and it will never be able to pick another langauge again?
 * madnick has ran out of space on hdd for new images
<charlie-tca> That seems bad
<madnick> will delete some tomorrow
<charlie-tca> just go to settings ->Keyboard -> and pick a new one?
<madnick> On the install
<charlie-tca> oh! in the installer itself
<madnick> yes :)
<charlie-tca> will try it after the meeting, then
<charlie-tca> You should be able to pick a language, and pick a different one, since a bad hit on the keyboard can make you miss the language you wanted.
<charlie-tca> Okay, any one else?
<charlie-tca> madnick: did you file a bug for that?
<madnick> charlie-tca: no sorry, i wanted to see if it was replicatable
<charlie-tca> That's okay. It is good to get it verified
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Website & Marketing ====
<GridCube> o/
<charlie-tca> pleia2: your turn
<charlie-tca> knome: you here?
<charlie-tca> well, I am.
<charlie-tca> The wordpress site has been approved. We are now in the process of converting http://xubuntu.org from drupal to wordpress
<charlie-tca> We should have the site converted in time for final release of Oneiric
<charlie-tca> We need a good news article for Beta2 release Thursday
<charlie-tca> We also need release notes written up for beta2
<charlie-tca> any volunteers?
<madnick> I am terrible at english :( Unfortunetly
<charlie-tca> madnick: was the issue with live session or install from the menu?
<GridCube> i can't log to irc from work, so no :(
<madnick> charlie-tca: live session
<madnick> wait sorry
<madnick> It was the install directly from the boot menu
<madnick> But yes, a live image
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Any questions on website?
<GridCube> o/
<GridCube> Someone needs to review the top 10 FAQ to see if they are ok, and no dangerous things are in them, also check question 10 for the help links that i dont know
<charlie-tca> GridCube: go ahead
<charlie-tca> #action verify top 10 FAQ and check help links in 10
<meetingology> ACTION: verify top 10 FAQ and check help links in 10
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the reminder, GridCube 
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ..
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> ochosi: any update?
<GridCube> o/ 
<charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
<GridCube> i know this is a very late thing to ask but
<GridCube> its posible to update the shipped wallpapers? or we have had to do that long before?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^ ^
<GridCube> its cool to have new wallpaper to atract people
<charlie-tca> madnick: not a bug
<GridCube> and i don't think its so hard to choose a few from a free repositorie
<GridCube> ..
<madnick> charlie-tca: okay :)
<charlie-tca> it lets me choose fillipino and then go back to english
<madnick> charlie-tca: you double clicked right?
<madnick> Not just 1 click
<charlie-tca> depends on the language, perhaps. I am now stuck in Kyrgyz
<charlie-tca> but I hit continue and went back
<charlie-tca> file the bug, I will confirm it
<madnick> Okay
<mr_pouit> GridCube: it might be a bit late, but you should check with ochosi & knome if they have something new/ready
<GridCube> ok :)
<charlie-tca> I think he wants to change the other ones we supply
<GridCube> that is
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: he wants to replace the old / supplied wallpaper package
<mr_pouit> which ones? from xubuntu, or xfce?
<GridCube> the ones that commonly come to choose, if we keep shiping the same ones it would seem we are stuck there, but if we have a bunch of new ones that would be atracting to people?
<GridCube> both?
<mr_pouit> xubuntu-bluebird-notext.png  xubuntu-bluebird.png  xubuntu-greybird.png  xubuntu-karmic-gdm.png  xubuntu-karmic.png
<mr_pouit> we only ship these ones in xubuntu-artwork
<charlie-tca> hm, karmic is probably the only one we could replace, since bluebird is in the lts and greybird is in natty and oneiric
<GridCube> I see, so they are all xubuntu-related
<GridCube> i remember, from the top of my head, a flower wallpaper in the menu, thats from xfce?
<mr_pouit> yeah, the remaining ones are shipped by xfdesktop
<micahg> if they're taking up too much space, we could create a xubuntu-artwork-archive or somethign
<GridCube> mmkay so we don't have any control over them
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: xubuntu-karmic is also used by lucid, bluebird has only appeared for 10.10
<micahg> or xubuntu-artwork-historical
<GridCube> micahg: my idea, or question, is to ship more, or different
<charlie-tca> Not too much space, just trying to change things up
<GridCube> just to spice things up :P
<micahg> I'd say add more (why not drop a good thing)...if space is an issue, we can split the historical ones out
<charlie-tca> well, play with keyboard selection in the live installer, it will spice you up
<micahg> *why drop
<charlie-tca> Something to look at for lts?
<GridCube> that should be nice :)
<GridCube> i think its a very late thing to ask now
<charlie-tca> agreed
<GridCube> ..
<charlie-tca> #topic === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-09-25 at 22:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * We are now in UI Freeze and Beta2 Freeze; archives will remain frozen until final release.
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Beta2: September 2
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Final Freeze: September 29
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>  * We need to update the Team Reports this week.
<charlie-tca> Archive will remain frozen until final release, but we can still get things in
<charlie-tca> #topic === Any Other Business ===
<GridCube> charlie-tca: [16:43] <charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Beta2: September 2  ?Â¿?
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> make that September 22
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> o/
<charlie-tca> Thanks for catching that, grid
<charlie-tca> Thanks for catching that, GridCube 
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> go ahead
<GridCube> I've been working on a Testing Interface, as you might know, it needs some polishing, but i think its fairly ok so far, I can give the code to you people if you wish to host it on another server, besides of that please tell me what else needs to be worked on.  http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XubuntuTestingsCenter.html In the same topic i've started working on a simple interface to load the proposed tests for a day, so it doesn
<GridCube> ..
<charlie-tca> It does make adding test results very easy.
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> I haven't had a chance to really test it yet, but I like the way it looks so far!
<GridCube> :D thank you
<charlie-tca> We are going to switch from google docs for LTS testing
<charlie-tca> we just don't have everything worked out yet
<GridCube> oh, in that topic
<charlie-tca> yes?
<GridCube> there is an api to send the stuff to a google doc
<Unit193> I would like to edit things if I make an oopsie and checking to see what others have done also
<GridCube> Unit193: it shows what test have been done in a day
<madnick> Well, a solution would be to register, without email requirement, but bot protection, Unit193 
<GridCube> there is no check part
<GridCube> i could figure out how to make a check buffer, It migth not be really hard
<charlie-tca> so we could use it to send the results to google doc?
<GridCube> we could
<GridCube> charlie-tca: yes
<charlie-tca> which would allow easy correction and the chance to see all the tests that have been already?
<GridCube> but i don't know how we could recover the test that were done in a day
<charlie-tca> Let's do that, please
<charlie-tca> If they are in google doc, we should be able to look at them directly, shouldn't we?
<GridCube> yes... but the confusing part will remain
<charlie-tca> well, let's try it
<GridCube> the whole idea was to be able to see what test where done in a day in an easy and fast way to not duplicate eforts
<charlie-tca> We can use a simple week to set the tests up and not have to change them all the time. They should be the same for each week
<GridCube> I will see if i can retrieve the tests from an expecific date using it, it might be posible
<GridCube> that can be done, i did that the first timne
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> now it has particular tests for particular days
<GridCube> it also has news for those days
<GridCube> we couldnt do that whit week days
<charlie-tca> which is what we want, since monday tests are different than tuesday tests, but every monday, the tests are the same
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> but what about betas or alphas days?
<GridCube> or this past weekend? they had ALL TEST mode
<charlie-tca> don't need them specifically different. We just announce through email and here what we are doing for special times
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> will see what i can learn about the google api
<GridCube> hopefully i will be able to set it up 
<GridCube> so far i know that i will have to create a new google account for it, it needs user/password to work
<charlie-tca> really?
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> okay, 
<charlie-tca> what about using the wiki for it?
<Unit193> Meeting over?
<GridCube> for what?
<charlie-tca> not yet
<charlie-tca> test results
<Unit193> I think that GDoc is easier than wiki editing though
<GridCube> oh, I don't know
<GridCube> i could save the results to a text file?
<charlie-tca> um, let's take this up later, we have one more bit to cover for the meeting before we lose people
<madnick> one should be able to automatically put it on the wiki
<GridCube> mmm i don't know about that
<GridCube> it could be done
<charlie-tca> won't work, since you must have edit approval to add/change the wiki
<GridCube> okay charlie-tca :) please go on
<charlie-tca> #topic === Xubuntu Governance ===
<charlie-tca> * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Governance_.26_Team_Structure
<charlie-tca> #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead
<charlie-tca> How time flies...
<charlie-tca> I have served as the Xubuntu Project Lead for three releases now. It has been a wonderful experience that I honestly enjoyed.
<charlie-tca> However, in accordance with our governing document, I will now open nominations for the next month. Those wishing to nominate themselves or others should do so by email to either mailing list, or myself (charlie-tca@ubuntu.com).
<charlie-tca> Nominations will close October 20, 2011, and the community election will be held at the meeting on October 23, 2011. If there are issues with this, please let us know between now and October 20.
<charlie-tca> questions?
<GridCube> nope
<charlie-tca> Okay, let's get those nominations in, then!
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for participating in the meeting! It is only with participation that this project grows and stays strong.
<charlie-tca> If there is no other business, we will close the meeting...
<charlie-tca> going...
<charlie-tca> going...
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 20:00:06 2011 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-09-19-19.01.moin.txt
<madnick> :)
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok i have to go to classes now :)
<madnick> charlie-tca: can you allow people to edit the wiki? If so, we could auth via ssl and upload the testing contents automatically
<charlie-tca> can't unless they are logged in
<Unit193> charlie-tca: You running?
<charlie-tca> There is no provision to change that
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I never nominate myself
<GridCube> and you have to authenticate TWICE!
<madnick> I see
<GridCube> what i can do is to dump the test results to a txt file
<GridCube> or a cvs
<Unit193> Once the nomination gets sent to you, do you ask the nominated if s/he accepts?
<charlie-tca> of course
<madnick> Would be pretty nice to have a Xubuntu testing center :P
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> we have now
<charlie-tca> Unit193: yes, I will be asking the nominees if they are willing
<madnick> btw charlie-tca im not sure where to file the bug report, what package etc :\
<GridCube> madnick: ubiquity?
<GridCube> okay now i leave 
<madnick> okay :)
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Ok, sorry. I just wanted to make sure
<charlie-tca> madnick: ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<charlie-tca> keyboard selection page
<charlie-tca> madnick: we have a really nice interface now, but we need to figure out how to report the results
<madnick> yes
<charlie-tca> where the did he go?
<madnick> gridcube? he had classes
<charlie-tca> If we dump to a text file, we still need a place to put it
<madnick> thats why i said that a official xubuntu testing interface would be nice, like have what he made + more on like testing.xubuntu.org :P
<charlie-tca> I will follow up the meeting with an email about the nominations and elections, too
<charlie-tca> hm, something to investigate. I think it will require our own server, but I will ask Canonical if such is possible
<madnick> I honestly cannot find where to report this bug, im sorry, im very tired if thats an excuse :\
<madnick> I press "Report a bug" on ubuntu bugs, and I just get a wikipage
<Unit193> Didn't pleia2 say sometyhing about a server?
<charlie-tca> madnick: boot oneiric, if you have one that works, then open a terminal and type     ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<madnick> oh :)
<madnick> thanks :D
<pleia2> canonical can just point the DNS wherever we ask, as long as the current hosting for it can put the testing. address in the apache config
<charlie-tca> No problem. You can do that from oneiric live session too
<charlie-tca> So it might be they can give us a testing site?
<pleia2> a testing site is more complicated, they have a very limited amount of software they're install, planet, drupal, wordpress
<pleia2> I highly doubt they'd let us run our home-brew testing code on their servers
<charlie-tca> or we have to supply the server, and they will let us use the sub-domain 
<pleia2> yeah, if we supply the server, they just point the subdomain at us
<charlie-tca> Okay, that is something to consider then.
<pleia2> I don't have anything available for production (the ubuntu-us.org server is full, and my ubuntu community server isn't for production code)
<charlie-tca> I hate to get reliant on google now, with what I see happening to google+ as an "identity service"
<charlie-tca> I might have something we can use. I will check it out.
<madnick> hehe, hope it didnt upload my password :P im sure i pressed "no" tho
<madnick> charlie-tca: sorry, i filed logs in too, but they are irrelevant, since its not the install that I got the error on :\
<madnick> About the server thing, I have some servers (2), with great uptime, that I acctually do not use, located in Stockholm (not at my home, but in a server center) I could give anyone (related to working on this) access to any of them
<charlie-tca> you can't get valid logs, since it locks up the computer
<madnick> didnt think of that :P
<madnick> I am tired, i just stayed up for the meeting :(
<charlie-tca> madnick: bug number?
<madnick> charlie-tca: 1 sec
<madnick> #854198
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<Unit193> Bug #854198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854198 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Cannot change keymap language again after double clicking on a language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854198
<charlie-tca> yup, got it and am confirming it now
<charlie-tca> so it is the double-click that did it, not selecting too many times, huh?
<madnick> I think it was the double click
<madnick> Im not 100% sure
<charlie-tca> I am, since I switched several times, but when I went back I double clicked and locked it up
<charlie-tca> Thank you sir. Get some rest, if you can. 
<charlie-tca> Going to be a long week here
<knome> sorry, i've had some connectivity problems
<knome> mr_pouit, new about what?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-20
<pleia2> is wp.xubuntu.org forwarding to www for everyone?
<pleia2> I think Something Went Wrong with that latest htaccess change maybe
<ochosi> pleia2: for me it is
<pleia2> ok, I need to get to bed for real, I'll reply to the ticket in the morning if knome doesn't get to it first :)
<ochosi> i mean forwarding to xubuntu.org
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> sleep tight then
<pleia2> thanks, take care :)
<ochosi> you too!
<Unit193> It's only 3am... ;) Sleep well
<knome> pleia2, got at it at first.
<knome> -at
<mvo> hi, if someone has a current  oneiric xubuntu (livecd or real install) it would be great if you could run software-center from a terminal and pastebin the output on that terminal, this would help me fixing bug #854087
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854087 in software-center (Ubuntu Oneiric) "software-center crashed with TypeError in _parse_menu_tag(): 'NoneType' object is not iterable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854087
<mr_pouit> mvo: not reproducible here on a clean vm
<mr_pouit> until I remove gnome-menus, that is
<mr_pouit> without gnome-menus, I get the same trace
<mvo> mr_pouit: thanks! I can reproduce it now
<knome> oooh, thee mvo (hey o/)
<mvo> hello knome!
<mr_pouit> mvo: I've a question about that: does software-center only works with gnome-menus, or can it work with another implementation that provides the desktop-directories files?
<mr_pouit> *work
<mr_pouit> (e.g. adduser 3.112+nmu1ubuntu5
<mr_pouit> app-install-data 0.11.10.5
<mr_pouit> apt 0.8.16~exp5ubuntu9
<mr_pouit> apt-utils 0.8.16~exp5ubuntu9
<mr_pouit> aptdaemon 0.43+bzr695
<mr_pouit> aptdaemon-data 0.43+bzr695
<mr_pouit> base-passwd 3.5.23
<mr_pouit> busybox-initramfs 1:1.18.4-2ubuntu2
<mr_pouit> consolekit 0.4.5-1
<mr_pouit> coreutils 8.5-1ubuntu6
<mr_pouit> cpio 2.11-7ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> dbus 1.4.14-1ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> dbus-x11 1.4.14-1ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> dconf-gsettings-backend 0.9.0-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> debconf 1.5.40ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> debianutils 4.0.2
<mr_pouit> dpkg 1.16.0.3ubuntu3
<mr_pouit> findutils 4.4.2-1ubuntu3
<mr_pouit> fontconfig 2.8.0-3ubuntu2
<mr_pouit> fontconfig-config 2.8.0-3ubuntu2
<knome> FLOOD! FLOOD!
<mr_pouit> gcc-4.6-base 4.6.1-9ubuntu3
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-atk-1.0 2.1.91-0ubuntu1
<mvo> mr_pouit: it will work fine if the files are missing
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-freedesktop 1.29.17-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0 2.24.0-1
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-glib-2.0 1.29.17-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-gmenu-3.0 3.1.90-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 3.1.90-0ubuntu1
<mvo> mr_pouit: the only thing I need to investigate is translations
<mr_pouit> gir1.2-pango-1.0 1.29.3-0ubuntu3
<knome> mr_pouit, wb
<mr_pouit> grrah, stupid mouse
<knome> hihi
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> middleclick? :)
<mr_pouit> worse than that, using putty and several VMs on windows right now, and I didn't copy fromt he good one :]
<ochosi> :)
<knome> mr_pouit, irssi should ask you about multiline pastes, right?
<knome> or are you using something else...
<mr_pouit> yeah, I thought so
<knome> see '/set paste' to make sure
<ochosi> automatic pastebin-ing bot would also be nice
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<knome> why bot? you could just bind that to your irssi
<ochosi> knome: bot because irssi/user-independant
<knome> ochosi, yeah, but that wouldn't stop accidents from happening
<ochosi> prolly not yeah
<knome> well, the bot could of course quiet the paster
<ochosi> that was the idea, yes
<knome> isn't that what floodbots do, btw? :P
<mr_pouit> mvo: so, what I tried to say before the "accident", is that libgarcon in xfce also provides the desktop-directories files, and I wondered whether software-center is hardcoded to use the ones from gnome-menus, or it takes whatever can be found in /usr/share/desktop-directories?
<mvo> mr_pouit: it has its own menu file for the display, but it was trying to read the gnome-menus files, this should now be fixed in trunk
<mr_pouit> okay, thanks
<knome> mvo, is the 'suddenly switch to speaking german' bug fixed in mvo yet? ;)
<mvo> haha - it still happens from time to time, especially if I'm in germany ;)
<knome> ;)
<Olbi> hello
<Olbi> today is beta 2?
<micahg> Olbi: what do you mean?  release i thursday
<micahg> *is
<Olbi> because at sheet where we have marked beta2 it is 20 september :)
<charlie-tca> eta2 testing today and tomorrow
<micahg> we're supposed to have images to test today
<charlie-tca> but we track our tests on the QA ISO tracker, too
<charlie-tca> Olbi: any tests you do should be marked at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ today and tomorrow
<Olbi> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CP282scF&key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&hl=en_US&authkey=CP282scF#gid=7
<charlie-tca> Yes, I marked it beta2 because we are testing the beta2 images before they can be released Thursday
<charlie-tca> There are three days marked beta2, right?
<Olbi> right :)
<Olbi> so today we need testing :)
<Olbi> which I should take?
<Olbi> alternate amd64?
<charlie-tca> The beta2 does not release three days in a row. It releases Thursday, if we get the testing done
<charlie-tca> Olbi: we track our tests on the QA ISO tracker, too
<charlie-tca> Olbi: any tests you do should be marked at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ today and tomorrow
<charlie-tca> check the tracker there, Xubuntu is towards the bottm
<charlie-tca> check the tracker there, Xubuntu is towards the bottom
<Olbi> account from lauchpad work there?
<charlie-tca> I don't think so, but it has been three years since I registered therer
<charlie-tca> Olbi: our goal for this testing is 5 of each test, if possible. So even if the tests are marked done, that is only one person did them
<Olbi> I know :)
<charlie-tca> and the images might get respun, in which case we test again :)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_countdown/
<charlie-tca> yes!
<charlie-tca> the text is blurry here, but let's do it
<knome> it's just a shade
<charlie-tca> could be my eyes too
<charlie-tca> all text is a bit blurry today
<knome> updated
<knome> refresh
<knome> see days 7, 14, 21, 28, 30
<charlie-tca> but I would like a countdown for us
<knome> if we want, i can do "1 week and 3 days" style too...
<charlie-tca> days is fine. We are already under 30, close to three weeks
<knome> yeah, but i chanhed the 7,14... to "1 week" "2 weeks"
<knome> it's not a problem, it's automated
<charlie-tca> I see that. It looks fine to me, either way.
<charlie-tca> your choice, sir
<knome> let me try the "n weeks and n days" style
<knome> no, it's better without that
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will add that countdown timer to the release notes, too
<knome> let's see how we'll get those online :)
<charlie-tca> knome: you have website access or do we need to get pleia2 to put it up?
<knome> charlie-tca, we need IS i think
<charlie-tca> I see the old website at xubuntu.org, don't I?
 * micahg likes that we seem to have more people in xubuntu-devel now
<charlie-tca> If we have to have IS do it, I suspect it won't happen before the release.
<charlie-tca> micahg: agreed
<knome> charlie-tca, we can try
<knome> charlie-tca, i've seen several people coming and asking about their desktop breaking because they enabled the root account. it IS needed in the website, and to be honest, i think it should be in the top 10 FAQ if it isn't.
<charlie-tca> I know you think so, but there is much documentation already available in the help wiki, and that doesn't stop them
<pleia2> why does enabling the root account break the desktop?
<knome> pleia2, no idea, but it looks like it does.
<pleia2> shouldn't it just create a root profile and ignore the user accounts?
<charlie-tca> because when you log into the users /home as root, it takes control of too many files
<pleia2> hrm
<charlie-tca> When it takes things like .ICEauthority and the .config files, the user can no longer use them
<knome> charlie-tca, sure. but it doesn't hurt to have it on the website. moreover, if we are following the original idea to make the website more rich on content than it is now, we do need more content than we do now.
<charlie-tca> Let's worry about actually getting the website switched over and working
<charlie-tca> We can't even hae a countdown timer on the website, and you worry about adding stuff?
<knome> charlie-tca, i've worried about that too, and we're really close to publishing it.
<knome> charlie-tca, who said we can't? i'm on the issue. remember, you said we can't get the new logo in grub, but i investigated and sorted it out. please let ME worry about it.
<knome> charlie-tca, i have assigned it to MYSELF. it's not away from your time if i do something.
<knome> thank you.
<charlie-tca> The problem is you have no responsibility to this team, except when *you* decide to. I always have responsibility here.
<knome> right. have a nice evening then. i'm out.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: we lost a User Days instructor, are you availble Saturday evening for a talk on Accessibility Apps? :)
<pleia2> schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/natty
<pleia2> looking to fill 21:00 utc
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> sure, put my name down
<charlie-tca> This saturday?
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> the 24th
<charlie-tca> sure, I can do that
<pleia2> yay! thank you
<pleia2> I'll add you now and forward you the "welcome instructors!" email :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> oh, you are welcome
<Olbi> new thunar 1.2.3 :D
<Olbi> pleia2: what's that link?
<pleia2> Olbi: link for?
<Olbi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/natty :)
<pleia2> oh, the schedule for User Days on Saturday
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays is the page about it :)
<Olbi> sounds nice ;0
<pleia2> it's fun
<Olbi> but I have wiki days in Poland in PoznaÅ :)
<Olbi> so couldnt been on User Day :(
<pleia2> well, we'll post logs afterwards if you want to read through some of the sessions afterwards
<Olbi> cool :)
<Olbi> when will be next User Day?
<pleia2> not sure if there will be one, Ubuntu Open Week has changed from being about teams to being user-directed, so User Days may be redundant now :(
<pleia2> it's a lot of work to put together, and I'm not sure I want to put in the effort if it's a duplicate of another event
<charlie-tca> +1
 * charlie-tca thought it was just him thinking that way
<charlie-tca> pleia2: email received. Thank you
<pleia2> sure thing
<ochosi> can anyone confirm that using the "install" option from the beta-livecd (as opposed to the: "try without installing") gives you this broken mess: http://imagebin.org/173292
<charlie-tca> That broken mess is known as bug 840094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<ochosi> well, also: there is no theme!
<charlie-tca> and we need bug 845549 fixed to resolve it
<ochosi> sry, i'll read the bugreport first...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
<charlie-tca> I think
<charlie-tca> It happens because there is no session running
<ochosi> ok, well thanks for clearing that up
<ochosi> hope that'll get fixed in time...
<charlie-tca> Yeah, me too
<charlie-tca> but it seems to be a hard one to get things done to fix it
<charlie-tca> We ain't giving up, though
<madnick_> If one uses Skype, do not sign out, and press "Shutdown", the shutdown manager will not respond, and it will kill xfwm4, so that it must be manually restarted on next boot (this happens every time i tried)
<charlie-tca> That's because policy kit won't allow the shutdown until Skype is shut down, but the xfwm4 gets shutdown anyway
<ochosi> k, the 2 screenshots that need an update in the installer slideshow are software center (looks completely different now) and thunderbird (because it mentions the 11.04 release)
<madnick_> So its a known bug?
<charlie-tca> not really, no, since so few of us have Skype, but it happens with other stuff too
<charlie-tca> report it, but it won't be a high priority to fix it
<madnick_> okay :)
<charlie-tca> skype is proprietary, so it is hard to get things fixed involving it
<charlie-tca> ochosi: so a bug report for that will go through since they just released the updated software center
<ochosi> yeah, i suppose so
<charlie-tca> besides, we just got a fix committed for software center in oneiric
<ochosi> no chance to change the screenshot earlier
<charlie-tca> it doesn't really work for xubuntu yet
<ochosi> oh
<charlie-tca> so you can't really get a screenshot in Xubuntu, even
<charlie-tca> hm, I seem to have frozen while updating natty here.
<ochosi> :/
<charlie-tca> wonder if I have hardware going bad again
<ochosi> yeah, i'm just reinstalling my vbox of oneiric cause it crashed big time before...
<charlie-tca> that's twice it froze on me
<charlie-tca> or the keyboard batteries died again
<charlie-tca> hm, it says I interrupted the updates
<charlie-tca> all images being rebuilt for oneiric beta2 now
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-21
<charlie-tca> All new images are bad; if you are running oneiric, do not update for a couple of hours or you lose networking... :(
<charlie-tca> when new images are posted, updating will be okay again.
<charlie-tca> New images will be dated 2011-09-21
<Unit193> Will do, boss!
<Unit193> I have not synced them for today anyway (I don't get a backlog of CDs like you seem to)
<charlie-tca> heh, being beta2 test day, I keep an eye on them, and sync every spin
<charlie-tca> Also, I am running Oneiric, so things like updating daily is important
<GridCube> good night people
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i just figured out how to make the Zend Gdata software to work :D
<GridCube> it doesnt seem it will be that hard actually, to save to a google spreadsheet :D
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick_> morning :)
<ochosi> hi
<charlie-tca> New alternate images; need all tests run again
<charlie-tca> Desktop images are still waiting for fixes
<charlie-tca> desktop imges dated 20110921.2 are ready for testing
<charlie-tca> New images are out, need to test them for beta2
<charlie-tca> results go to the ISO tracker at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> lightdm defaults to unity-greeter on upgrades
<GridCube> hello
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> Respinning the desktop images again, for the software center fix
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> so i zsync now
<GridCube> :D
<Unit193> He said that soon after I finished
<GridCube> oh 100% so nothing to sync
<GridCube> 676MB :D thats way under 700, we could add a few wallpapers :P
<micahg> GridCube: yeah, I want to add another language after beta 2 at least for the alternates
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> that sounds a lot better actually
 * micahg wants to audit the CD for next cycle (LTS should be pristine if possible :))
<micahg> charlie-tca: also something to consider, so we want a Xubuntu DVD (do we have one already?)
<micahg> s/so/do/
<charlie-tca> GridCube: there are new desktop images being made, so the ones we have now are no good
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> i use alternate
<charlie-tca> OMG, no, I don't want a DVD. It is that much more to try and test
<micahg> heh, ok
<charlie-tca> check the server for the new image, it will be dated 20110921.3 or higher
 * Unit193 would say something about having uptimed installed by default, but it's not exactly needed
<charlie-tca> I thought that was part of the kernel
<Unit193> !info uptimed
<ubottu> uptimed (source: uptimed): Utility to track your highest uptimes. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:0.3.16-3.1 (natty), package size 44 kB, installed size 212 kB
<Unit193> There is a D on the end of that one
<charlie-tca> and we install that by default?
<Unit193> Nope, I do. It's not something we are going to put in though (Not necessary/needed)
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Olbi: waiting for new desktop images to test
<Olbi> download: oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso  21-Sep-2011 14:43  685M  Desktop CD for 64-bit PC (AMD64) computers (standard download)
<charlie-tca> not valid
<charlie-tca> You have to wait for the next one
<charlie-tca> That's the old one now
<Olbi> hmm, when will be next one?
<charlie-tca> Hopefully within an hour, but no promises
<Olbi> ok, w8ting
<Olbi> I cant contact with translate team from polish :P
<Olbi> some strange it is :)
<charlie-tca> weird
<Olbi> want help with language packs
<micahg> Olbi: which language packs?
<Olbi> Polish
<micahg> Olbi: sorry, meant Ubuntu or Xfce
<Olbi> I mean Xubuntu translating
<Olbi> or it is Xfce :]
<micahg> Olbi: well, some stuff we get from Ubuntu, some stuff from various upstreams, some stuff from Xfce
<micahg> Olbi: is there a specific app that you wanted translated?
<Olbi> when I copy files, it isnt translated
<micahg> Olbi: I think a new thunar was just released
<Olbi> is it in this beta or next?
<micahg> well, we have to see if there's any integration work, I think mr_pouit is working with Debian on it
<charlie-tca> maybe contact jannis in #xfce to help with their translations
<charlie-tca> he isn't there today, though
<charlie-tca> jpholman ? is it?
<charlie-tca> or jpohlman ?
<Olbi> no
<micahg> from 1.2.3 changelog: - Translation updates: Basque, Chinese (China), Dutch (Flemish),&#13;Italian, Kazakh, Korean, Malay, Russian, Slovak, Spanish (Castilian),&#13;Telugu.
<Olbi> :/
<Olbi> no mine
<micahg> Olbi: well, if you start now, we can probably get the new translations in for 4.10 with the LTS next release
<micahg> Olbi: https://translations.xfce.org/
<GridCube> 4.10?!
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> for the past!!
<micahg> GridCube: I shouldn't promise 4.10, that depends on when upstream releases
<charlie-tca> no, 10 is higher then 8
<micahg> Xfce 4.10 :P
<GridCube> oooooooo
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah, that too
<charlie-tca> still waiting for the new images
<micahg> Olbi: pjotr worked hard to get Dutch updates, maybe can advise you
<Olbi> micahg: ok
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> i cant seem to figure out how to authenticate against google docs
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> it seems like you need to use a dynamic authentication, eveytime you want to use the thing
<GridCube> oh... http://code.google.com/intl/es-AR/apis/accounts/docs/RegistrationForWebAppsAuto.html
<GridCube> :/ this is far over my head
<madnick> Seems a bit complicated :)
<madnick> http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/docs/auth/oauth.html
<GridCube> oooh :D New Plymouth at boot on vbox!
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> PINK!
<GridCube> still we have a "guest account"
<madnick> There are new images?
<madnick> oh yes
<charlie-tca> no, no new desktop images yet
<charlie-tca>  madnick : those images are the 21.2 image, they are old
<madnick> okay
<GridCube> :) updated the tracker!
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> AAAAAAAH PINK
<GridCube> can't we at least make the pink blue? or black?
<GridCube> its scary
<charlie-tca> it's kind of going to be pink for beta2
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> yeah
<GridCube> i figured that much
<GridCube> but i still wonder, if we can not get a lightdm theme, at least we can change it to black?
<GridCube> it wont look so scary then
<charlie-tca> GridCube: try the 64 bit images. they are blue
<GridCube> :( i can't install 64b
<GridCube> :P but its bright blue? or BSOD blue?
<charlie-tca> um, kind of dos blue
<charlie-tca> you know the old DOS blue?
<micahg> 64 bit images?
<micahg> oh, heh, right, arch, not format :)
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> cd's
<charlie-tca> except they are not cd's until someone burns them, right?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I thought you mean image as in .png not image as in .iso
<charlie-tca> I know, hehe
<charlie-tca>   New images are out
<charlie-tca> I am told the 20110921.2 is the latest image we will get
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> 20110921.3 is the latest
<charlie-tca> Anyone waiting for the latest desktop images should be syncing now
<charlie-tca> We only have 8 tests to run, let's grab them
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-22
<charlie-tca> I started entire disk on both 386 and amd64 desktop cd's
<GridCube> i zsyncking
<GridCube> what desktop i386 test should i do?
<charlie-tca> resize?
<charlie-tca> or manual partitioning
<charlie-tca> which one do you want to do?
<GridCube> anyone will do
<GridCube> will do manual partitioning if thats ok
<charlie-tca> That's great!
<charlie-tca> and software center works in Oneiric now
<micahg> \o/
<GridCube> the doubleclicking bug doesnt repeat
<charlie-tca> It doesn't?
<GridCube> no
<charlie-tca> I forget to test for it
<GridCube> i double cliked, and double cliked and i could go back and change stuff again
<charlie-tca> Great!
<GridCube> im using the "es" locale
<charlie-tca> That is a good thing, too
<charlie-tca> so the worst thing we have now is the installer stuff, when "Install Xubuntu" is chosen from the menu?
<GridCube> it could have been me not understanding the bug
<GridCube> madnick, should check it
<charlie-tca> For me, all it took was select anything but English, then pick another language by double-clicking on the left column. That locked the install up completely
<charlie-tca> where is madnick ?
<charlie-tca> didn't he download this image?
<charlie-tca> I will go back and check it to make sure, but I think you probably would have seen the freeze happen
<charlie-tca> jibel was able to freeze doing it too, so it ain't too hard to find
<GridCube> for me it was precheck on EspaÃ±ol, so i checked it to EspaÃ±ol(Latinoamerica) and then i went back and double clicked it to EspaÃ±ol again
<GridCube> all of this in doublecliking
<charlie-tca> sounds good then. I could jump all over doing single-clicks, but the first double-click locked it up
<charlie-tca> from plymouth to the nice pink login screen!
<GridCube> id say nice PINK! login screen
<charlie-tca> I have to run the manual partitioning on amd64 next, so will check the keyboard thing too.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, When we get madnicks lightdm theme, it won't be pink no more
<charlie-tca> Starting the last test
<GridCube> passed
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> even new software center
<GridCube> mmm
<charlie-tca> reat!
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> I really should do something about these sticky keys, but I really need them some days
<GridCube> oh we need to do a wubi installÂ¿?
<charlie-tca> If we can do it. I usually skip that because I don't have windows
<charlie-tca> My double clicks are getting me a language and continue at the same time on the keyboard screen. At least it is not locking up, though.
<charlie-tca> I can hit the "back" button and fix it.
<charlie-tca> I did it three times, so I count that as okay.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: can you do wubi?
<GridCube> :| not today
<charlie-tca> No problem. jibel can usually pick them up, and even if they get missed, we got enough tests in
<GridCube> mmkay
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing the tests tonight
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> you are welcome
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> oh if madnick really can set up a server whit php and mysql then should i keep working on making my interface better?
<GridCube> i have a few ideas :P
<charlie-tca> yes, because it will use your interface
<charlie-tca> He is just giving us the server space, you design what we need
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> awesome!
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> then i will continue 
<charlie-tca> whether that be text data or MySQL is up to you
<GridCube> MySQL would give us more tools to work whit, once i learn how they work!
<charlie-tca> All MySQL ever gave me was confusion, so you have to teach me how to read the stuff or give me an easy interface to read the results.
<GridCube> :D thats what im trying to do
<GridCube> thank you very much for giving me the oportunity to work on this i really appreciate it :D
<charlie-tca> It takes a lot of people willing to put in their own time to make free software really successful.
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> oh, it seems like kubuntu people haven't done most of the test!
<GridCube> D:
<charlie-tca> They just got their latest images, though
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> well :)
<GridCube> see you tomorrow, or friday, or saturday, it all depends
<GridCube> :D
<micahg> charlie-tca: you probably lost gnome-bluetooth since it was dropped to a suggests and we no longer pull it in, I guess I have to figure out if we want that or blueman for O
<soren> Every time I open a gnome-terminal, it's immediately resized down to a minimal size. About 50% of the time when I try to resize it, it does the same. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this? No other application exhibits this behaviour.
<soren> ...and it only happens in xubuntu.
<mr_pouit> oh, interesting
<mr_pouit> I just tried to resize it, and it changed to a very small window
<soren> mr_pouit: \o/
<soren> mr_pouit: I'm glad it's not just me :)
<mr_pouit> maybe it's passing a wrong size to xfwm4
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure how to debug that, you might want to report it upstream directly, so the xfwm4 developer can tell you what he needs to debug.
<mr_pouit> (lunch time, bbl)
<charlie-tca> pleia2: possible news for the release of Oneiric Beta2 later today: http://2tu.us/3ikb
<madnick> I see, I got a highlight last nite about the testing, Im sorry, but I was asleep, it was 5 in the morning 
<charlie-tca> I'm sorry. we got it, though
<charlie-tca> Oh, that's right, we were talking about you too, weren't we?
<madnick> I think so :P
<madnick> Cannot look anymore, because I just installed debian 6 on this server
<micahg> madnick: so Ubuntu got squeezed out?
<charlie-tca> lol
<madnick> lol, no debian 5 did ;)
<micahg> madnick: Debian 6 == "squeeze" :)
<madnick> oh
 * madnick is slow :P
<micahg> does anyone else have bluetooth, I'm happy to update seeds, but fear I don't have time to properly test bluetooth
<madnick> i have yesterdays images and bluetooth installed
<madnick> What needs to be done?
<mr_pouit> it's probably okay without bluetooth by default
<charlie-tca> Better not to seed it unless we are sure it will work
<charlie-tca> We can push the bug into P
<micahg> hmm, well, I don't think we currently have bluetooth on the images
<mr_pouit> yeah, it was demoted to suggests in nm
<madnick> i cannot find it no, but i could install blueman
<madnick> Bluetooth is more relevant now, given smartphones and tablets i think O_o
<micahg> ok, well, if someone has the hardware and can tell me if blueman or gnome-bluetooth pulls in more stuff and which one works, I'll update the seeds
<madnick> well, blueman installed fine, and was succesful in pairning :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: do you have a settings for bluetooth if you need it?
<madnick> ok blueman tied when i aborted an operation
<madnick> charlie-tca: which settings?
<charlie-tca> any configurations for it?
<madnick> default installed, paired with phone, now online using the phones networking service :)
<madnick> No other settings im using
<charlie-tca> Okay, I leave it up to mr_pouit and micahg  to decide what to do
<charlie-tca> I have nothing that can use bluetooth, and don't really care which way it goes :)
<micahg> well, does gnome-bluetooth actually pull in more stuff?
<charlie-tca> yes, since it requires gnome-control-center and about half of gnome3
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/bluetooth.png
<madnick> blueman has a pretty easy interface
<micahg> madnick: can I get you to test the new blueman once I convert to dh_python2 and upload to my PPA?
<madnick> micahg: sure
<micahg> madnick: thanks, will try to upload that Sat night
<madnick> okay
<mr_pouit> I guess the archive is open again...
<micahg> shouldn't be
<charlie-tca> it will be frozen until final release, but yes, things are being accepted
<micahg> we should be frozen until release, but non-seeded is basically waved through if bug fix only, seeded bug fix should be accepted until next thursday (final freeze), then will need a special exception as well
<charlie-tca> They don't want to let anything through that will break stuff bad
<mr_pouit> I'll upload thunar & xfce4-panel then (Corsac is vac until next tuesday, so it won't be uploaded to unstable before that)
<charlie-tca> Oh, good!
<charlie-tca> Been waiting for thunar
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks, I"ll try to get bluetooth sorted with madnick's help then
<charlie-tca> Beta2 released
<charlie-tca> pleia2: can you publish the website news for it?
<pleia2> yep, let me just quickly eyeball the draft
<pleia2> fixed the link (was pointing to alpha-2 :))
<charlie-tca> Well, I almost got it right...
<charlie-tca> Thanks to all of you for your efforts getting this milestone out
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/node/50
<charlie-tca> Three more weeks to final. We can do it!
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/oneiric/beta2 for prettier :)
<charlie-tca> Heh, it looks good!
<charlie-tca> Okay, Many thanks again for getting everything done for beta2.
<charlie-tca> I am taking the night off now. Got to run upgrades on this machine, hoping it won't break after a week of not running them.
<charlie-tca> Good night
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-23
<GridCube> good evening
<GridCube> there was no change on images since yesterday
<micahg> do we not have a system tray in oneiric
<micahg> nevermind, it's there
<Olbi> hello :D
<Olbi> could I download daily iso and testing it, <20110921.3> ?
<micahg> Olbi: sure, newest images will be available in ~4 hours
<Olbi> beta2 of Ubuntu is, xubuntu will be soon release?
<micahg> already released
<micahg> Olbi: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-2/
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Good morning!
<Unit193> Doorbell ditching?
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> Have to restart weechat to make changes take effect
<mr_pouit> soren: seems fixed with xfwm4 4.8.2 (released yesterday, not yet uploaded). Well, at least after playing 5 minutes with the resize handle - boring -, I can't reproduce
<mr_pouit> hey there
<charlie-tca> Hello, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Hey, one the changes has caused windows to go to full screen when clicking on maximize and then clicking it again. They no longer come back as a small window.
<charlie-tca> xfwm4 issue?
<mr_pouit> the new release hasn't been uploaded yet, so if something changed, that's not it.
<charlie-tca> It's been happening for a couple of weeks now. I will check it out using a fresh install. Maybe my settings are screwed up again.
<charlie-tca> Thank you for working that lightdm bug. Still hoping we get that working for us.
<soren> mr_pouit: Awesomesauce. Is that expected to land for Oneiric?
<mr_pouit> yes, it's bugfix only, I'll upload in a few hours
<soren> mr_pouit: \o/
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: well, our fate isn't in my hands anymore right now, I hope lightdm(+my patch) is going to get uploaded soon ;-)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, is there anyone I can poke to make the patch get in faster?
<mr_pouit> I only sent it yesterday, so it's still pretty new
<mr_pouit> on the default install, in which category does "Software sources" appear in the menu?
<charlie-tca> System
<charlie-tca> booting a fresh install to verify, though
<charlie-tca> I am wrong
<mr_pouit> in settings?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Software sources is in settings
<mr_pouit> okay, thanks
<charlie-tca> you are welcome
<charlie-tca> and the thing with windows going big and staying big is my system. I verified it in a fresh install and maximize hit twice gives the original window size
<mr_pouit> okay, so garcon 0.1.9 doesn't show any regression either, so I'll upload it as well (I'll need a FFe though for this one)
<charlie-tca> We can get that
<mr_pouit> apt-get install alacarte => 168 new packages installed
<mr_pouit> apt-get install --no-install-recommends alacarte => 1 new package installed
<mr_pouit> awesome /o\
<Unit193> Yep, done that
<charlie-tca> At least that works
<Unit193> I get to try 11.10 live on hardware \o/
<Unit193> I get to see what mad did with plymouth
<GTRsdk> which package has the Xubuntu wallpapers in it?
<mr_pouit> GTRsdk: xubuntu-wallpapers
<GTRsdk> mr_pouit, so xubuntu-artwork? I used apt-get source but I did not see anything
<mr_pouit> yeah, the source package is xubuntu-artwork
<GTRsdk> I think I just found the wallpaper directory... xubuntu-artwork-11.10.4/usr/share/xfce4/backdrops ?
<GTRsdk> mr_pouit, which one is the current one?
<mr_pouit> current is greybird
<mr_pouit> the previous one was bluebird
<mr_pouit> and before, it's the one with 'karmic' in its name
<GTRsdk> mr_pouit, thanks.
<mr_pouit> uploaded xfwm4 4.8.2, xfce4-settings 4.8.3, xfce4-utils 4.8.3, and filed the FFe for garcon 0.1.9 :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks!
<charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> apparently, GTRsdk is trying to build a Fluxbuntu desktop package
<madnick> charlie-tca: the meeting time is not updated in the topic
<charlie-tca> Oh, I will fix that
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Beta2 released | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-09-25 at 22:00 UTC | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> fixed it, thanks, madnick 
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: garcon FFe approved
<mr_pouit> thanks
<charlie-tca> you are welcome. Just trying to help where I can. Sometimes that's really a small bit.
<Unit193> I just had bug 828679 on booting Xubuntu 11.10. After Plymouth (that looked sweet) it went to a blank screen for a little and then to the screensaver(!). After moving the mouse, I got the "report a bug" dialog box
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828679 in colord (Ubuntu) "colord crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828679
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-24
<charlie-tca> vbox or hardware?
<charlie-tca> I never had that in all the tests I did
<Unit193> Hardware
<Unit193> Even though it may be too late, I added it to the qa tracker :/
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> That works
<Unit193> You can see full info on hardware there (Listed it close to yours)
<madnick> hm, i used the default virtualbox settings, and upgraded now (distribution update it told me) is it normal for it to take several hours? using default settings
<madnick> Normally I give it some cores, and about 4GB of RAM
<charlie-tca> you do update-manager -d or apt-get dist-upgrade ?
<madnick> used the normal update manager 
<madnick> from like 3 days old oneiric image
<madnick> the GUI version
<charlie-tca> update manager here depending on the machine can take between 6 and 18 hours
<madnick> oh 
<madnick> wow O_o i never knew it took at much time
<Unit193> Never taken close to that long for me
<charlie-tca> and I do it every milestone on both 32bit and 64bit
<Unit193> 90 updates and 170+M to get and it took less than 20min
<madnick> Its taken 2 hours now for me
<madnick> and its at half for me
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> it is a bit slow
<madnick> Im one of those people that cannot really multitask well, when I got an install going, I want to almost sit and watch :P
<charlie-tca> I just start the upgrades, and go to bed
<Unit193> Takes too long for me to do that, I just end up forgetting about it
<madnick> :)
 * Unit193 has watched someone walk over, move the mouse, then I remember I have VBox running -_-
<charlie-tca> Takes too long sitting in front of it, here.
<madnick> oh there we go: "an error occured please run the package manager.."
<charlie-tca> Especially when I do it every month or so
<charlie-tca> oh-oh
<charlie-tca> open a terminal and run 'sudo apt-get update' and 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' as separate commands
<charlie-tca> The mirror might have got out of sync
 * madnick can tell that its late, he turned of the computer instead of the vm
<charlie-tca> heh, well, that makes it bad, doesn't it?
<madnick> :P
<madnick> It does indeed
<madnick> acctually since i already spent this much time on it, i might as well get the newest image instead directly, which may be even faster then fixing this problem
<charlie-tca> I would say probably is
<Pjotr> Xubuntu 11.10 is going to be the best ever! I've been running it for some time now, and it's just great. Heck, even Linus Torvalds has turned to Xfce... :-)
<Pjotr> You can count on me, to push it hard in the Dutch Ubuntu community. Spread the word!  :-)
<Pjotr> Something else: I've discovered a strange error in garcon (newest version, which I got in the updates of today). When logged in using *Xfce* session, all is well: the Dutch translation is complete.
<Pjotr> But when logged in using *Xubuntu* session, one string in garcon isn't translated! Namely the word "Accessories". See the relevant screenshots on my website: http://sites.google.com/site/computertip/schermafdruk
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: can this be repaired?
<mr_pouit> hey
<mr_pouit> Pjotr: do you have gnome-menus installed?
<mr_pouit> the default xubuntu menu file uses some categories from gnome-menus.
<Pjotr> No, it's a vanilla Xubuntu 11.10....
<mr_pouit> grmpf, it was installed for beta1, so somethign changed
<mr_pouit> I'll add it back
<Pjotr> Thanks! :-)
<mr_pouit> Pjotr: try to install it, and you should have a translation then
<Pjotr> OK. I suppose I have to reload X, so I'll quit now and be back in a few minutes
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: Problem is fixed! I installed gnome-menus and then rebooted. All is fine now with garcon. :-)
<Pjotr> Something else, not translation-related: somewhere during the last couple of updates, the lower panel has lost it's transparancy. I can't get it back...
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<charlie-tca> User Days today in #ubuntu-classroom
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/natty
<charlie-tca> You will happy to hear that Ubuntu doesn't tell me "remove disk" either anymore.
<madnick> charlie-tca: in plymouth? 
<charlie-tca> yeah
<madnick> but thats not true for xubuntu right? :]
<charlie-tca> sure it is
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> I don't see the "remove the disk and hit enter" after installing from desktop cd's
<madnick> Well, the messaging is there :/
<charlie-tca> It isn't making it to the screen
<madnick> but is plymouth shown?
<madnick> when it happens
<charlie-tca> plymouth gives me the throbber only
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> When plymouth shows fully, so does the remove message
<madnick> Yeah, i think we previous had this problem too
<charlie-tca> Yeah
<madnick> seems to happen sometimes, a solution would be to redraw the screen
<madnick> at an interval
<charlie-tca> It might be something ubiquity is doing that is messing up the screens again
<madnick> :(
<charlie-tca> since it is happening in both Ubuntu and Xubuntu, it is something common to both on desktop cd installs
<madnick> charlie-tca: what did Ubuntu do with plymouth appearance wise? (out of curiosity)
<charlie-tca> nothing that I can see
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> dark background, flashing dots under Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> plenty drab
<charlie-tca> so many crashes when I logged in, it took about two minutes before I could even clear all the boxes
<madnick> hehe, thats pretty not good .P
<madnick> micahg wanted me to look at some bluetooth stuff
<madnick> but I have not heard from him
<madnick> I will be here for most of the day, but I might be afk in a bit, but just highlight me and i will see it
<charlie-tca> yes, he wanted blueman tested, I think, from a ppa
<charlie-tca> great... did a screen-reader install, 199 updates, can't get a Ubuntu desktop now
<charlie-tca> errors found while checking the disk drive for /
<charlie-tca> even better... drive for /tmp is missing
<charlie-tca> should be / drive
<charlie-tca> this is bad
<charlie-tca> reinstalling Ubuntu
<GridCube> good evenign people
<charlie-tca> Good evening, GridCube 
<GridCube> :) how are you today mister charlie-tca ?
<GridCube> are there any test to be done today?
<charlie-tca> Doing fine, sir. 
<charlie-tca> images still the same as beta2, so no point running tests yet
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> I've been working on my interface at work :P
<charlie-tca> Good, I think
<charlie-tca> Don't be getting in trouble.
<GridCube> :D yes i think its good too
<GridCube> nah, its a quiet place, a library whit not so many users :P
<charlie-tca> Okay
<GridCube> so i have lots of free time, except when im not XD
<GridCube> s/im not/I don't
<charlie-tca> I know that way of doing things
<charlie-tca> Meeting tomorrow, 25 September, 22:00 UTC
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-25
<micahg> madnick: I'll get blueman up in my PPA later tonight
<micahg> madnick: hi, I have the new blueman in my PPA (ppa:micahg/patch-test), can you see if it works as well as the one in oneiric?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Good afternoon
<charlie-tca> no new images yet, probably have to go remind them to turn them on again
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 4 hours. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<GridCube> meeting in 5 minutes?
<GridCube> charlie-tca, ?
<charlie-tca> yup
<madnick> :)
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 4 Minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
 * charlie-tca waves
<mr_pouit> hey
<charlie-tca> Hello, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Let's go for it now!
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting Xubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep 25 22:00:07 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Exio> :P
<charlie-tca> #meetingname Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> The meeting name has been set to 'xubuntu_community_meeting'
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> Along the same lines, the meeting bot records who is present, but only if they comment. Please either wave (o/) or hello or something, so we count you as present.
<GridCube> \o/
<GridCube> count me twice :P
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> anyone else here?
<madnick> hello
<micahg> o/
<mr_pouit> o/
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: Hello kind sir
<beardygnome> hi charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> #topic === Old Business ===
<beardygnome> sorry i'm a few mins late
<charlie-tca> No problem, the important thing is you are here.
<charlie-tca>  * charlie-tca to get FFe filed for xubuntu-meta to add blueman to seeds - Carried Forward
<charlie-tca> micahg: status?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I uploaded a new test version to my PPA, would like madnick to test if possible
<charlie-tca> He wants the information about it
<charlie-tca> madnick: did you follow?
<madnick> yes, i can do that
<madnick> I just couldnt find the stuff in the PPA i found on google
<charlie-tca> I believe that. Google probably is referring to out of date releases
<micahg> madnick: huh? it's my PPA :)  ppa:micahg/patch-test
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, that too
<charlie-tca> #action madnick to test blueman in ppa:micahg/patch-test
<meetingology> ACTION: madnick to test blueman in ppa:micahg/patch-test
<charlie-tca> We only got a few days left to get this in, and the release team knows we will want an FFe
<GridCube> thats good then
<madnick> I will try it directly, if there is anything special to test, please tell me :)
<charlie-tca> #topic === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I know you been busy this week
<micahg> madnick: I have no idea, I think functional testing should be sufficient
<GridCube> o/
<mr_pouit> hehe ;-)
<charlie-tca> GridCube: we will give mr_pouit a chance first, okay?
<GridCube> :)
<mr_pouit> fine by me :p
<mr_pouit> * New upstream bugfix releases uploaded: thunar 1.2.3, xfce4-panel 4.8.6, xfwm4 4.8.2, xfce4-utils 4.8.3, xfce4-settings 4.8.3, garcon 0.1.9
<mr_pouit> * micahg has been working on blueman (cf. "old business" topic)
<mr_pouit> (and I haven't forgotten about Bug #840094)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<mr_pouit> ..
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much for that work
<charlie-tca> Any questions for packaging and development?
<charlie-tca> GridCube: go ahead?
<GridCube> if we cannot change the lightdm skin in time, can we at least make it not PINK? like black or something?
<mr_pouit> I think it's hardcoded like that on i386
<GridCube> :(
<charlie-tca> no, it is difficult to get the color changed
<mr_pouit> (apparently it's not the same color on amd64?)
<charlie-tca> heh, no
<charlie-tca> Thankfully, it is a very nice blue
<charlie-tca> micahg: did you have anything to add to packaging and development?
<micahg> just to point out something
<micahg> bug 836208 is quite annoying for anyone w/more than one desktop installed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836208 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "On login to xubuntu session, starts nautilus which ruins desktop" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836208
<charlie-tca> Ouch
<charlie-tca> yes, that would be. another side-effect of adding Xubuntu to Ubuntu, I guess?
<charlie-tca> Not sure how we fix it, either, since Nautilus tends to take over pretty good now
<charlie-tca> See if I can push it to the Ubuntu devs and get someone working on it.
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca>  * A big thank you to everyone for helping get Beta2 out the door. We now have about three weeks left before the final release of Xubuntu 11.10.
<charlie-tca> We should have new images tomorrow. We will need to test them pretty good, since we haven't had any for a few days again.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is doing a lot better on bug triage than I am currently.
<charlie-tca> Thank you for doing that, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<GridCube> not from me
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> pleia2: any updates?
<charlie-tca> knome: any updates?
<GridCube> o/ 
<charlie-tca> go ahead
 * GridCube reiterates his recomendation of Someone reviewing the top10
<pleia2> knome is working on moving content over to the testing site we have now
<charlie-tca> Yes, we have that moving to Old Business, GridCube 
<GridCube> ok
<pleia2> so things are chugging along :)
<GridCube> :) .. then
<charlie-tca> pleia2: will we make it for the 11.10 release?
<pleia2> hopefully!
<charlie-tca> Thank you, pleia2 
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> ochosi: Are you here today?
<charlie-tca> madnick: we have not given up on the idea of getting lightdm wallpaper changed yet, at least
<madnick> good news :)
<charlie-tca> #topic === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Monday, 2011-10-03 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * We are now in UI Freeze and Beta2 Freeze; archives will remain frozen until final release.
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Final Freeze: September 29
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>  * We need to update the Team Reports this week.
<charlie-tca> Did I miss any announcements?
<charlie-tca> #topic === Xubuntu Governance ===
<charlie-tca> #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead
<knome> huh (hey o/)
<charlie-tca>  * Nominations for project lead are now open.
<charlie-tca>   * Those wishing to nominate themselves or others should do so by email to either mailing list, or myself (charlie-tca@ubuntu.com).
<charlie-tca>   * Nominations will close October 20, 2011, and the community election will be held at the meeting on October 23, 2011. If there are issues with this, please let us know between now and October 20.
<charlie-tca> Hello, knome 
<charlie-tca> How goes the website change?
<knome> haven't had time to work on it (or any other FOSS project lately), but it's coming along. we have uploads working now, as well as better-looking permalinks
<charlie-tca> We have about three weeks to final release of Xubuntu 11.10. Will we make it?
<knome> yes, it should be a breeze to switch it to production, as it's only server-internal change now
<charlie-tca> Do you need any help? Is there anything anyone can do to make it happen?
<knome> i need to go through some content things with pleia2, but other than that, it's just an email to the IS
<knome> (or content with you, but i understand pleia2 is more aware of the transition stage of the new site than you are)
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> yup
<knome> so no specific need on anything right now
<charlie-tca> That's great! 
<charlie-tca> Thank you for working on it
<knome> just need to upload/insert the content and we're ready to go
<knome> actually
<GridCube> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
<knome> now that i said that, we need at least a small change on the css too, but i'm sure IS can work that out the same time we switch to production
<GridCube> oh, I know im being a bother here, but, knome where do you plan to place the top 10? and is it possible to have multiple translations of it enabled?
<knome> (it's not more than one-liner, and we can fix the rest later even if it should be more)
<knome> GridCube, either a page or a blog-post; translations will be available later
<GridCube> :) ok
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, IS doesn't need to much time to do things with this. They seem very responsive at this time.
<knome> page because then it would be dynamic
<knome> but blog-post maybe because it will become outdated anyway
<charlie-tca> agreed
<knome> but that's not something we need to decide now
<knome> with a page, we'd need to find out where to link it from
<knome> maybe the footer, or the help page
<charlie-tca> if it is blog-post, it will need re-writing on a regular basis. If it is a page, it can be re-written, but it could also be updated easier.
<GridCube> we can work on it every cycle, cant we?
<charlie-tca> That would be good
<knome> if it's a blog-post, we can just post a new one, and leave the old "top 10" to be attached to the release
<knome> eg. this one could be namely the "oneiric top 10"
<charlie-tca> update with the most asked stuff each release?
<knome> then just write a new one for O+1, and if we want, we can link to the old top 10's as well
<charlie-tca> I will add it to the release manager notes
<GridCube> if things change i guess
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah, and it's not a problem even if there was the same questions
<knome> we can always attach release-specific stuff into the blog posts
<GridCube> oh, screenshots? do you need any?
<knome> like, "don't do this"
<charlie-tca> right, but if it is in a blog-post, it usually isn't as visible all the time as a separate page
<knome> GridCube, you should ask pleia2 
<knome> charlie-tca, we can link to blogposts too on the footer, if we want
<knome> charlie-tca, in addition to that, it would be visible in the most recent posts area while it's one of the newest posts
<charlie-tca> That would work, too
<knome> but as i said, we don't need to decide that now
<knome> we can decide once we're about to publish it
<charlie-tca> I just have issues with blog posts disappearing. I bookmark them when I think it is something I will refer back to, and many of them disappear within three to four months
<GridCube> :) its ok i just wanted to bother about that :P
<knome> charlie-tca, these won't. that's why we wanted the permalinks
<charlie-tca> Thank you for asking, GridCube 
<charlie-tca> knome: Thank you for that!
<knome> charlie-tca, the link will be something like http://xubuntu.org/posts/2011/10/top-10-for-oneiric (iirc)
<knome> charlie-tca, and it will work almost eternally
<charlie-tca> Okay, you got that one then
<charlie-tca> If it don't disappear, I won't care which way we do it
<charlie-tca> #topic === Any Other Business ===
<charlie-tca> Any one have anything they would like to discuss?
<knome> (yup. pages are http://xubuntu.org/page-name, but i don't want to add too much dynamic/outdating stuff there)
<charlie-tca> I agree with that. 
<madnick> o/
<micahg> o/
<GridCube> o/
<charlie-tca> Too many items would defeat having those available
<charlie-tca> madnick: go ahead
<madnick> micahg: i want to talk to you after this, if you have time (about blueman)
<madnick> sorry for getting offtopic
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> Can't be offtopic here.
<charlie-tca> micahg: your turn
<micahg> docs need a version bump (s/11.04/11.10), could you handle this mr_pouit ?
<micahg> ..
<mr_pouit> okay
<micahg> thanks
<charlie-tca> GridCube: Your turn now
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> ;) 
<GridCube> i've been working more on my interface
<GridCube> madnick, has given me a place on one of his servers
<charlie-tca> :)
<GridCube> so i can dump my stuff there when we need it
<GridCube> it can be configurated easily by an admin
<GridCube> and it can be used now, i only have to work on the search engine
<charlie-tca> link?
<GridCube> it should be ended by this week
<GridCube> yes:
<charlie-tca> for updating tests?
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XTCv2.html
<GridCube> i could use help on making it pretty :P
<charlie-tca> I want to make the testers work harder. Please update both google docs and this new test interface this week.
<charlie-tca> Let's give it a good workout, so we know for sure it will do what we need.
<GridCube> i mean if we ever add it to something like testings.xubuntu.com  it will look out of place
<charlie-tca> Yes, well, let's try anyway
<GridCube> :D awesome! 
<charlie-tca> google docs is out of place too
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> i tried to make it in the same colors that the current page XD but my css is so bad
<charlie-tca> madnick: make sure the server is secure. We just made that public
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> no, that link is not madnicks
<madnick> charlie-tca: its secure :) but thats not mine
<charlie-tca> oh-oh
<GridCube> i havent send anything there yet
<charlie-tca> That link will work to update the tests?
<GridCube> i don't want to mess thins up
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> it will 
<charlie-tca> okay. Let's give it a workout this week then
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> if all is okay i will send it to madnick's
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Any questions about how to update testing this week?
<charlie-tca> Any other comments/discussions/anything?
<GridCube> Can I propose you to Project Leader charlie-tca? not because you just are the current one, but because i think you are doing a pretty good job at it, and I think that thats good :D
<charlie-tca> I do not currently show any nominations for Project Lead
<charlie-tca> Yes, you can
<GridCube> :D t
<GridCube> then i did
<charlie-tca> Email it to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, please
<GridCube> :) will do
<charlie-tca> I have to keep it official for the records
<charlie-tca> Anything else?
<charlie-tca> Let's make it good week ahead then!
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for participating in this meeting. It sure helps keep the project strong to have you here!
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep 25 22:48:06 2011 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-09-25-22.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> micahg and madnick are going to discuss blueman, right?
<madnick> Yes I did a quick test, i will test more but:
<madnick> blueman works fine, the on in your PPA, except 2 wierd things: the libnotify or similar popup, I was unable to click "accept" there, but it seems it registered that i clicked, but did not go away, also: it showed my device under a wierd name one time, not sure if its the offical name that i got when i clicked "trust"; but it didnt look like it (cant have been anyone elses, i live in the woods)
<madnick> I could connect to the internet via my phone
<madnick> And I could transfer files etc
<micahg> madnick: the problem is that I don't know what "proper" behavior is.  Which version behaves better?
<madnick> micahg: i cannot try the experimental stuff (with headset emulation) because i dont have any headphones and its kida late for speaker
<madnick> micahg: this one did not crash when i clicked "disable bluetooth"
<madnick> i will try more
<madnick> i can setup another oneiric machine 
<madnick> when is this due?
<micahg> madnick: well, final freeze is thursday at 21:00 UTC, I go offline around 23:00 UTC wed until sat night
<madnick> okay
<madnick> I will try today and tomorrow
<micahg> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-18
<knome> meh, 713MB for amd64
<bluesabre> Good morning everyone!
<bluesabre> (where applicable)
<elfy> good mornaftereveight bluesabre 
<bluesabre> works for me
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> works for most :p
<olbi> hello
<olbi> why Xubuntu 12.10 doesn't have at top panel sound indicator?
<olbi> i have to install mixer for changing fast sound ;]
<GridCube> olbi, because the plugins indicator is now in gtk3 and that conflicts with xfce 4.10 gtk2 panels, i dont know how the state of fixing this issue is going on
<olbi> grrr :P
<olbi> idicator was very clever for using with fast changing sound and manage audio players :)
<olbi> I think Xfce should change from GTK to Qt, cause GTK+ is going to be too much integrated with gnome :]
<Sysi> errwhat?
<olbi> this is only suggestion :D
<Sysi> I mean how's "gtk integrated with gnome"
<pleia2> olbi: we don't develop Xfce here, that's a discussion to have with the Xfce folks :)
<Sysi> I wonder how's razor-qt nowdays
<pleia2> (but I can tell you right now that a complete rewrite of everything in a new toolkit isn't going to happen)
<olbi> I know it :)
<olbi> do you know when will be updated livecd with 12.10 daily?
<olbi> Sysi: it looks good and works quiet well, said my friend :)
<knome> hey pleia2 :)
<pleia2> g'day knome 
<knome> you available at 21UTC?
<pleia2> yeah, for a half hour
<knome> ok
<knome> we're going through the xubuntu docs with mdke then
<pleia2> great!
<pleia2> I was getting nervous timing-wise on this :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> well as i said to ochosi, nothing else works for me than getting the new docs up for beta2
<elfy> good luck :)
<knome> elfy, thanks ;)
<pleia2> knome: you owe me a casebadge design :)
<pleia2> and I owe you flyer text
<knome> pleia2, i know
<pleia2> I'll really try to do it this week, for real this time
<knome> pleia2, can you wait until we get beta2 freee done
<knome> +z too
<pleia2> sure
<knome> i don't have too much time, and there's a lot of things that *need* to happen
 * pleia2 nods
<xnox> http://ubuntu-with-wubi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/xubuntu-option-to-be-removed-from-wubi.html
<xnox> knome: why was wubi option removed for xubuntu?
<knome> xnox, no testers, and our experience is that wubi simply brings more problems
<xnox> knome: ok.
<knome> we're trying to cut any workload that isn't highly beneficial
<xnox> would be nice to have a fix released bug with this comment.
<xnox> such that google can help find it and read it =)
<knome> what "fix released"? :)
<xnox> knome: well the download option is dropped in wubi
<knome> yeah
<elfy> is there anyone else using 12.10 seeing double entries for partition's ? 
<Sysi> I see two floppies
<Sysi> which is especially weird since I don't have floppy device, I commented line for it in fstab and removed everything in /media
<elfy> cool - thought I was going mad - really didn't think it was just 4 people - you want to me too the bug ?
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1039375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<olbi> I have to problems with doubles pendrive :P
<elfy> I've got it for any partition that is not mounted by fstab
<knome> pleia2, got my slides pretty much ready for the lecture
<knome> don't know when that is though :P
<pleia2> yay :)
<pleia2> whenever it is, don't show up an hour late
<knome> lawl
<knome> i'd probably get away with that too :P
<pleia2> you are very famous
<knome> i definitely am!
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/machine-sticker.png
<pleia2> looks good, SVG? :)
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/sticker.svg
<knome> pleia2, if you're going to send it to printers, i shall export you another one?
<knome> pleia2, for printers: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/sticker-paths.svg
<knome> i hope they'll have a good enough dpi...
<pleia2> ok, I'll find out what they need
<knome> sure, let me know
<knome> i can even export pdf's, if they want...
<pleia2> thanks! :)
<pleia2> ok, emailed off to request quote
<knome> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-19
<micahg> knome: we had issues with mousetweaks in precise and onboard was fixed to not require it for precise
<ochosi> knome: the description of xubuntu-artwork on lp should prolly be re-thought: "Xubuntu desktop themes, GDM themes and Usplash artwork." (more than 2/3 of that is not accurate anymore ;))
<ochosi> s/more than/exactly/ :)
<knome> micahg, ok, yeah, but it's still just recommends. or shouldn't be even that anymore...
<knome> ochosi, can you change that?
<knome> ochosi, i mean, do you have the permissions? if you do, feel free to simply go ahead
<knome> astraljava, what about that display-dialog code? did you find it already?
<astraljava> I had no chance to look for it, yet. I'll check it most probably on Friday evening, or during the weekend the latest. I'm not much at home before that.
<ochosi> astraljava: ahoi! and: about how much of it had you done already?
<astraljava> ochosi: Howdy, how are you? I didn't make any progress since the last time we spoke, my machine broke sometime soon after I got the layout changes done, and then when I got that fixed, xserver broke. :) I haven't gotten dual-head working since, though I haven't had time to play with it much either.
<ochosi> astraljava: welcome back! i'm doing ok, obviously not working as much as you recently ;)
<ochosi> astraljava: humm, so you haven't touched the xrandr stuff yet at all i guess?
<astraljava> Danke!
<astraljava> ochosi: It's not just work, mind you...
<ochosi> right...
<astraljava> ochosi: Nope, never got deep into that part at all. 
<ochosi> ok, then don't mind to look for the code. the UI parts are quickly changed and much of that is done already in xfce-git
<astraljava> Yeah, I expected as much.
<astraljava> Sorry for dropping the ball on this.
<ochosi> hope bluesabre and me get some time soon to get the xrandr stuff going
<ochosi> no problem, it happens ;)
<astraljava> I'm shifting the emphasis of my contribution now, though, so development is going to be where I'll play from now on. Or at least after this cycle.
<ochosi> very cool
<ochosi> i really hope we can get a few things going during the next cycle
<astraljava> Are you going to be online during this weekend?
<ochosi> but i guess mostly we'll have to try to deal with gtk2 -> gtk3 problems
<ochosi> hmm, not much i'm afraid
<astraljava> Ok.
<ochosi> a friend of mine turns 30...
<ochosi> and i have quite a few meetings on frida
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> but i guess sunday evening i'd be back
<bluesabre> ochosi: I might get some time soon
<astraljava> My weekdays' nights are still busy until this upcoming weekend, but then the whole of the weekend is free, so I can dedicate parts of it for our stuff. But I'm not going to spend (or even plan to) as much as before, I need to have other kind of things in my life as well. :)
<ochosi> o hai bluesabre :)
<astraljava> Hey Sean!
<ochosi> bluesabre: good morning to you!
<bluesabre> Good day everyone!
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, that sounds like a sane plan
<ochosi> i guess my next project is code-commenting for parole
<astraljava> I noticed I'm going insane if I hack only, both at work and at home.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> definitely
<bluesabre> Sanity... who needs it?  :)
<ochosi> oh, also right now there's no stress at all, most of our workitems for 12.10 are either done or postponed
<ochosi> hehe
<astraljava> bluesabre: It's part of insanity, so I suppose quite many. :D
<ochosi> astraljava: oh also, as i'm not attending UDS i might come to .fi for a RL meeting at some point
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, but I'd have liked to do those that sadly are now postponed. But oh well, I guess it's better late than not even then, which could happen if I pushed like previously. :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Super!
<Sysi> I could try to get to south then too
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be nice
<astraljava> Totally.
<ochosi> knome: i'm afraid i won't be able to make today's meeting...
<knome> ochosi, you suck
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, there's not much to update for now
<knome> y
<ochosi> our themes should be mostly bugfree after mr_pouit has uploaded them
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should drop the USC icon from our icon-theme
<ochosi> since we're already doing an upload, i guess it wouldn't be hard to include that
<knome> showertime.
<knome> your call.
<ochosi> feel free to discuss that with bluesabre and mr_pouit today ;)
<ochosi> i'd drop it i think
<ochosi> or update it with a better icon
<ochosi> better or different
<ochosi> bluesabre: what do you think about this? http://imagebin.org/228946
<ochosi> (still better than original USC icon and different enough from synaptic imo)
<bluesabre> ochosi: Sure, not bad.  It's purple, so ubuntu-y
<ochosi> yeah, that was the idea behind it
<ochosi> orange looked a bit too "critical"
<ochosi> (colors were borrowed from humanity-icontheme)
<bluesabre> Even better
<ochosi> i could re-color them and push them to git
<bluesabre> I'd say go for it
<ochosi> okeydokey
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> if you're around in the meeting, would you mind talking mr_pouit into uploading a new snapshot to 12.10?
<bluesabre> If I'm around and I remember.  I have a real life meeting at that time too
<ochosi> oh right, then nvm
<astraljava> knome: To enhance the suckage, I can't attend either.
<astraljava> ...or maybe that's a relief, I don't know.
<knome> :P
<ochosi> knome: xubuntu-artwork description updated
<knome> ochosi, ta
 * ochosi might make the meeting after all (at least there's a slight chance)
 * smartboyhw thinks he should congratulate elfy 
<ochosi> ok, looks i can't attend after all...
<smartboyhw> ...
 * elfy will dust the channel for while 
<smartboyhw> lol elfy
 * smartboyhw find it weird that elfy wants to dust the channel since he isnÂ´t an op of the channel...
<pnarciso> hey guys
<smartboyhw> Hi pnarciso 
<pnarciso> so, there's a meeting today
<smartboyhw> Yes:)
<pnarciso> when is beta 2 be released?
<smartboyhw> pnarciso: Er I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock has the answer
<smartboyhw> Next thursday precisely
<pnarciso> thank you
<smartboyhw> NP pnarciso 
<pnarciso> Xubuntu 12.10 is working pretty nice now
<smartboyhw> :)
<pnarciso> but there's still the duplicated drives problem
<smartboyhw> ThatÂ´s the big one
<elfy> I'd rather seem messaaging than drives fixed 
<pnarciso> sound plugin is working now
<elfy> mmm - not here it's not - but might have missed an update
<pnarciso> you must add it manually
<elfy> oh - right click add etc ?
<pnarciso> must add plugin indicator to xfce panel
<elfy> already have it 
<ochosi> the indicator-plugin should still be in the panel, you might have to install the indicator-sound package though
<pnarciso> in my case the plugin indicator was not in the panel and I add it manually
<pnarciso> the latest updates added the gtk2 sound indicator
<ochosi> totally possible, i haven't checked yet
<pnarciso> USC is working for a while now
<ochosi> i hope we'll get the themes updated soon, and maybe the new USC icon with it
<elfy> got the sound one now 
<pnarciso> also, IÂ´ ve seen that you just committed a fix for the USC icon 
<ochosi> then my share is more or less done for this cycle
<ochosi> not sure the icon will land in 12.10
<pnarciso> have you done more changes to the theme?
<ochosi> the icon theme or the gtk themes?
<elfy> usc?
<ochosi> Ubuntu Software Center
<ochosi> (aka the one and only, ugly, slow memory hog)~
<elfy> oic - I'd not see that then 
<ochosi> it's this one: http://imagebin.org/228946
<pnarciso> USC is a mess, I can't even install an external deb without it crashing
<elfy> nice - not enough to make me install it though ochosi :D
<pnarciso> gdebi should be default :)
<ochosi> elfy: thanks, it was just the obvious fix for distinguishing it from the (blue) synaptic icon ;) and yeah, i could see why you wouldn't wanna install/use it
<ochosi> pnarciso: afaik gdebi is unmaintained for a while already
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> so it's not an option
<pnarciso> but it works :)
<elfy> luckily it works though :)(
<ochosi> and installing external debs doesn't really work with synaptic
<ochosi> also i wouldn't wanna point new users to manually downloading and installing debs
<davmor2> pnarciso: when USC fails to install a deb do you report the bug?
<ochosi> everyone who can do that can use dpkg cli
<pnarciso> yes I do
<pnarciso> but I can only do it once :)
<davmor2> pnarciso: do you have a bug number
<pnarciso> no
<pnarciso> but it shouldn't be too hard to search in ubuntu bugs
<pnarciso> there's a lot of reports
<ochosi> davmor2: are you involved in USC?
<davmor2> pnarciso: next time if you can open USC from the terminal then trigger the deb install and add the terminal info to the bug report.  A lot of the time the issue is the package fails lintian checks, we are working on a fix for this though
<davmor2> ochosi: I might be
<pnarciso> ok, I will do it next time
<ochosi> davmor2: then excuse my previous harsh comments ;) but really, i have the feeling that the previous version wasn't as slow and sluggish...
<pnarciso> But I'm glad you are aware of this issue
<davmor2> ochosi: Quantal's opens installs an close 2 and half to 4 second faster than in precise and precise was only 2 seconds slower than the gtk2 version.  The big issue might be the fact that it is all gtk3 now that is causing issues on xubuntu maybe, it is only really tested and supported for Ubuntu
<ochosi> davmor2: gtk3 isn't a problem in itself in xubuntu, it's only gtk3-only plugins (like the indicators) that cause problems/work
<micahg> well, if upstream GTK cared enough to fix their speed regressions and make improvements, then Xfce might make it more of a priority to switch
<ochosi> +1
<davmor2> ochosi: oh and to be fair in precise it was a real memory hog it had a memory leak if you installed more than one app, that has been resolved for quantal 3-8 meg increase instead of 3-600 meg for 4 apps :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> davmor2: right, well in all fairness i've only tested it on quantal in vboxes, not real installs...
<pnarciso> I just made USC crash
<pnarciso> I'll make a report now
<pnarciso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1044141
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044141 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in __str__(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 29: ordinal not in range(128)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> gotta run now, have a good meeting everyone!
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<elfy> cya ochosi 
<ochosi> o/
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<smartboyhw> cya ochosi
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> how are you?
<davmor2> pnarciso: ah yeap known chrome has 3 issues we are killing them slowly with FIRE!!!!! :D
<elfy> bluesabre: all good here thanks :)
<davmor2> pnarciso: the lintian for chrome seems to of gone though so that is a start
<pnarciso> Well, I installed HIB Osmos game deb through software center and it crashed like I reported, so it's not a chrome issue
<davmor2> pnarciso: no I mean it was an issue that chrome brought to light in USC
<knome> meeting in less than 10 minutes
<knome> pleia2, morning
<knome> micahg, hullo
<knome> mr_pouit, allÃ¶
<smartboyhw> Hello all
<pleia2> morning
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<knome> hey jjfrv8, elfy, smartboyhw 
<elfy> good day good sir
<smartboyhw> Hi knome:))
<jjfrv8> Hi.
<micahg> hi knome
<SkippersBoss> afternoon
<knome> hey SkippersBoss 
<knome> since we seem to be here, i'll start the meeting now and run through the old stuff
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 19 14:56:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #chair pleia2 
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> seems to be none that are still appropriate/not obsolete
<knome> #subtopic Disable compositor in live CD
<knome> #info Compositor is disabled in the "Install Xubuntu" mode in the live CD
<bluesabre> yay
<knome> #subtopic Do we want to run encryption -tests for milestones?
<knome> #info Postponing until R
<knome> #subtopic Testcases feedback
<knome> #info New testcases up at the ISO tracker, please see eg. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/23726/testcases
<knome> #info If something is inaccurate, please send email to the xubuntu-devel mailing list
<knome> #subtopic Xfce4 display dialog
<knome> #info Postponed until R
<knome> #subtopic Strategy Document review
<knome> #info The new Strategy Document is published at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #subtopic Development
<knome> is there anything worth mentioning since the last meeting?
 * micahg wonders why the meeting started early...
<knome> (eg. in the last month)
<pleia2> knome got excited :)
<knome> micahg, because i was simply running the old stuff away :)
<knome> micahg, i knew there wasn't anything to comment on those really...
<bluesabre> indicator-messages won't be making it, but that's not really news-worthy
<knome> #info Re-introducing indicators, except indicator-messages
<knome> i believe it's mostly been bugfixes and fighting agains the windmills after FFe
<knome> #subtopic QA
<knome> #info New testcases up at the ISO tracker
<knome> #info We need more tests for Beta 2, since we skipped Beta 1
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion and Artwork
<knome> #info Xfwm window borders fixed (2px for Q)
<knome> #info Lots of other bugfixes in too
<pleia2> #info sent off a request for quote on some casebadge stickers
<knome> #info Countdown banners designed, see http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/countdown_quantal.png for a quick preview
<bluesabre> +1
<bluesabre> brb
<pleia2> #fleshed out our "marketing audience" on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing so we can work on some flyers for events
<pleia2> #info fleshed out our "marketing audience" on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing so we can work on some flyers for events
<knome> hehe:)
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft text for flyers this week
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft text for flyers this week
<knome> #action knome to draft flyer looks hopefully before UDS
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to draft flyer looks hopefully before UDS
<knome> #action knome to get new countdown banners uploaded
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to get new countdown banners uploaded
<pleia2> #info website, wiki and help.ubuntu.com/community docs are looking good! we'll probably revisit them as a review next cycle
<knome> #action mr_pouit to upload updates to xubuntu-artwork (theme bugfixes and elementary-xfce USC icon change)
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit to upload updates to xubuntu-artwork (theme bugfixes and elementary-xfce USC icon change)
<knome> is that it for m&p&a ?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> oh
<knome> #info "Dotless" wallpaper uploaded for LightDM and Plymouth since they don't scale wallpapers well
<knome> #subtopic Documentation and Website
<pleia2> ah well, got website :)
<knome> #info The documentation is now written, reviewed and converted to DocBook
<knome> #info The docs will most probably land into B2, they'll be reviewed today to granted an upload permission
<knome> *to grant?
<knome> oh well..
<pleia2> \o/
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<pleia2> thanks for your work, everyone :)
<knome> #info Thanks for everybody contributing to the docs; bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, myself :P, ochosi, pleia2, SkippersBoss, smartboyhw, and others that are not online and/or i've forgotten
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> oh, did somebody have general updates?
<pleia2> not strictly project news, but I'm going to be out of the country from Oct 10 through UDS, so someone else will need to handle release notes
<pleia2> and any other website stuff that comes up :)
<knome> i talked with ochosi about that, and i think well get that sorted
<pleia2> great
<knome> yes ma'am, ready to work o>
<knome> #info Release notes need writers, for Beta 2 and Final release
<knome> #info Beta 2 freeze is TOMORROW 21UTC
<SkippersBoss> if i can help OOPS that's quick
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> SkippersBoss, that's just the freeze, b2 release is next thursday :)
<SkippersBoss> let me knmow what to do and where i can find it
<knome> SkippersBoss, we'll send email to the -devel list
<micahg> oversizedness
<knome> ok, let's advance
<knome> micahg, yeah
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic ISO oversizedness
<SkippersBoss> for the amd64 variant only
<knome> #info We are currently at 708MB for amd64 and 693MB for i386
<pleia2> I love it and it would make me sad, but dropping gimp?
<knome> pleia2, that's dropped already \o/
<pleia2> oh now I am sad!
<knome> pleia2, so is gnumeric \o/
<micahg> it gave us 20MB
<SkippersBoss> so is gnumeric
<micahg> knome: drop 1 more langauage?
<micahg> on amd64 that is
<knome> np: Hans Zimmer (Gladiator OST) / Barbarian Horde
<knome> suits very well for the situation
<micahg>  * Languages: es pt zh-hans
<knome> micahg, yeah, i was simply thinking the same.
<micahg> that gets us proper sized for beta 2, if we can find more room before final, we can add it back
 * pleia2 makes note for updating websites and info about gnumeric
<knome> micahg, pt has less native speakers by far, so it'd be that
<knome> micahg, what are the other things we are looking at?
<smartboyhw> Yay zh-hans is not deleted...
<SkippersBoss> remeber that with the es pt versions you are going to alianate a large group of users
<knome> we could cut some slack removing some games
<knome> SkippersBoss, well, we already had to drop fr...
<micahg> SkippersBoss: i386 still has them
<SkippersBoss> I can understand the logic
<knome> SkippersBoss, most people fortunately have a decent internet connection, so they're able to download the langpacks
<micahg> #Enough room on i386, not enough on amd64:
<micahg>  * Languages: xh fr pt
<knome> #info Languages that we'll keep for i386 but drop for amd64 to get more space: xh, fr, pt
<knome> ok, so is that as easy as that? :P
<micahg> yep
<knome> ok, great
<micahg> if we dropped something else from the default install, we could probably add another language to i386
<knome> gnome-sudoku?
<micahg> or found another spurious recommends
 * micahg takes it knome doesn't like sudoku
 * smartboyhw thinks sudoku is ok to be dropped
<knome> well i do, but it's less essential than one more language
<micahg> yeah, that would do it
<knome> and with the current config, we're about 10MB undersized, and that's waste of time
<knome> do we have a backlog of what language we would like to reintrodue?
<micahg> we might be able to get away with it w/out dropping anything
<knome> maybe fi, since it's so widely spoken
<knome> ;]
<pleia2> lol
<micahg> de seems to be it
<knome> micahg, i really don't want to be oversized for b2, so i'd rather do that tweaking after b2
<SkippersBoss> at least amongs the Xu developers
<knome> micahg, unless you're willing to handle the respin requests and stuff
<micahg> knome: it doesn't require an upload, so we can flip the bit and see what happens tomorrow
<knome> micahg, oh, right, yeah, we have enought time to revert
<knome> sounds good
<knome> #action micahg to drop 'pt' from amd64 and reintroduce 'de' for i386
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to drop 'pt' from amd64 and reintroduce 'de' for i386
<knome> #action micahg to make sure i386 doesn't go oversized, and if it goes, drop gnome-sudoku tomorrow before freeze
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to make sure i386 doesn't go oversized, and if it goes, drop gnome-sudoku tomorrow before freeze
<knome> i believe that's it for the beta 2 prepping altogether!
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<pnarciso> so pt which have a much more userbase is being droped for de?
<knome> pnarciso, no.
<knome> pnarciso, pt is dropped from amd64, de introduced to i386
<smartboyhw> pnarciso: pt is dropped in amd64 and de is introduced in i386
<smartboyhw> Or am I wrong?
<pnarciso> okok, I read wrong, sorry
<knome> pnarciso, we're oversized for amd64, but have a bit extra spae for i386
<bluesabre> that was scarily similar, knome & smartboyhw
<knome> pnarciso, np, good to have it sorted
<knome> bluesabre, :P
<smartboyhw> I pressed Ã«nter 1 sec slower than knome, bluesabre you know:(
<knome> bluesabre, i believe it is the same than with great minds and idiots - they all think the same
 * knome hides
 * smartboyhw hides
 * smartboyhw thinks knome is saying that he is an idiot:(
<knome> hsst, don't take the same hideaway, they'll notice us idiots here
<knome> smartboyhw, i was saying we both are, but i was just kidding :P
 * bluesabre is king when everyone else hides
<smartboyhw> ;P
<knome> mostly referring to myself...
<knome> so, next meeting
<knome> should we have one just before B2 release?
<smartboyhw> +1
<knome> i will not take "we will not release B2" as an answer, so...
<bluesabre> Yeah, who knows what will change at the last minute for us to panic about
<smartboyhw> If we donÂ´t have B2 we donÂ´t even HAVE a beta.....
<knome> #info Next meeting: September 26th, 15UTC
<SkippersBoss> that's not an option
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 19 15:28:18 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-09-19-14.56.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-09-19-14.56.html
<knome> thanks!
<bluesabre> yay
<knome> i'll update the minutes later
<smartboyhw> yay thanks knome
<SkippersBoss> H
<smartboyhw> bye now gotcha sleep
<knome> np
<SkippersBoss> THAT WAS A QUICKY
<pleia2> I won't be around for the next meeting
<SkippersBoss> NITE nite smartboyhw 
<SkippersBoss> pleia2, don't say that
<knome> pleia2, heh, yeah. TRAITOR!
<SkippersBoss> youl b fine in africa
<pleia2> I said last week when we scheduled this one that I wouldn't be :P
<SkippersBoss> besides there is excelent 3g cover in ghana
<pleia2> SkippersBoss: nah, holiday
<SkippersBoss> oops
<SkippersBoss> sure
<pleia2> ghana isn't until October :)
<knome> pleia2, well, you can make it up by carrying all my stuff during uds, and taking care of my, eh... hydration
<pleia2> lol
<SkippersBoss> just realised
<knome> :]
<knome> SkippersBoss, yes?
<SkippersBoss> knome, rub it in
<pleia2> I think it's more like your dehydration
<knome> lol
<knome> i was thinking about the barley-sort
<pleia2> yep
<knome> :)
<knome> well yeah, you're right
<knome> SkippersBoss, was there something you just realized? :)
<knome> SkippersBoss, or was that about pleia2/ghana/october
<SkippersBoss> last thing
<knome> sure
 * micahg also won't be here for the next meeting
<knome> oh, right
 * knome is on a misunderstanding-streak
<knome> micahg, yeah, i hope there's no need for you to be :)
<knome> or else i'll kick the release team in the ankles :)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> micahg, btw, something we should get fixed for R: bug 996791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 996791 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 12.04 extremely slow login" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/996791
<knome> micahg, that has quite high heat
<pnarciso> Duplicated drives in thunar and desktop bug is still there
<knome> pleia2, how confusing it is that your LP nick is lyz.
<pleia2> indeed
<micahg> knome: not a xubuntu specific issue (should be fixed upstream ideally)
<pleia2> all my email addresses are lyz@ so it has to be that way :)
<knome> micahg, yeah, "we should get fixed" :)
<knome> pnarciso, # ?
<SkippersBoss> need to some boring grownup stuff ((c) Pleia) 
<SkippersBoss> CU all l8r
<knome> SkippersBoss, see you :)
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-bugs
<knome> go to visit the "gentlemens'"
<pnarciso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pnarciso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4/+bug/1044896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044896 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "desktop shows removable storage devices twice" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pnarciso> a small bug that I detected and reported directly to xfce devs https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9280 , x-chat icon dissapears when I disable the compositor
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9280 in General "Disabling the compositor makes X-Chat IRC tray icon to dissapear" [Normal,New]
<knome> yeah, that's not for this list :)
<pnarciso> do you have any contact with xfce devs? their mailing list is very quiet
<knome> #xfce-dev is your best bet, but that's not too good
<elfy> knome: which is not for this list - xchat or thunar
<knome> i mean, summer was really quiet, but it's starting to be a bit more active again
<knome> elfy, xchat
 * micahg wants to drop xchat, but no one else seems to agree :)
<knome> micahg, maybe for R if we're still struggling with space :)
<micahg> well, I'd like to get rid of one of our excess stacks if we can for R
<pnarciso> I like x-chat better than pidgin for irc
<knome> micahg, well yeah, sure.
<elfy> pnarciso: trouble is xchat is not good for anything else :)
<elfy> but I agree :)
<knome> pidgin is "okay" for irc, if you join now and then, and don't want too complex configuration
<Sysi> since you're probably online if you want irc and there's pidgin for emergency live-sessions I think dropping xchat should be considered
<elfy> knome: +1 I use it when I'm in and out of live sessions
<elfy> and as pidgin can be used for other things - makes sense to drop xchat to me 
<knome> yeah, then we also should consider gthumb/ristretto too
<elfy> might have been good to consider that prior to the doc change :)
<bluesabre> I think pidgin works pretty well for irc, with the exception that you can't set masks and stuff.
<bluesabre> For R, I'm in favor of getting rid of gthumb and ristretto, and bringing in shotwell.  It's standalone viewer works like a charm for everything I've thrown at it.
<knome> elfy, for R definitely, not for Q
<knome> bluesabre, what about CMYK PSD's? ;]
<bluesabre> knome: haven't tried that, but since ristretto dies on SVGs, I'd say it doesn't do too well with that
<knome> heh :)
<Sysi> I like ristretto except for svgs, but I don't need very extensive functionality
<knome> i'm thinking the same, anything that shows jpg/png well is fine for me
<pnarciso> makes sense
<pnarciso> we don't need two photo viewers
<pnarciso> ristretto is enough
<elfy> depends if you just want a viewer 
<elfy> gthumb is enough to do a bit of fiddling with - without installing gimp
<Sysi> isn't it needed for importing photos from some cameras too
<knome> yeah
<elfy> which - ristretto or gthumb
<knome> gthumb
<elfy> k
<knome> those with PTP mode or stf, iirc
<elfy> logically it would make sense to me to lose ristretto of the two - but I'm just this guy you know ...
<pnarciso> ristretto is part of xfce apps
<pnarciso> as it's light
<pnarciso> and it's light
<elfy> is gnumeric part of xfce apps - cos that's gone ... 
<bluesabre> gnumeric is a gnome office app, right?
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> used to be
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> no idea - I just remove it on an install anyway 
<bluesabre> does anyone even know about gnome-office now
<bluesabre> basically abiword, gnumeric, and dia
<knome> not really
<knome> most just want libreoffice anyway
<elfy> never used any of them in 5 or 6 years bluesabre 
<knome> but it would be quite weird to not ship a document editor
<elfy> agreed
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> being a "part of xfce (apps)" is no argument for inclusion, and gets next to no preference
<knome> delivering a feature we need is the most important thing
<mips1911> why does the image have to fit on a cd if you don't mind me asking? What's wrong with a 800MB image?
<knome> micahg, many of our users still use CDs, we believe.
<knome> mips1911, ^
<knome> mips1911, sorry, autocomplete fail
<knome> micahg, ^
<knome> ARGH.
<Sysi> if your computer doesn't boot from usb, you don't have one or making one fails
<knome> yup.
<mips1911> if your computer does not boot from usb it's probably to slow for xubuntu
<knome> mips1911, not really, there are a lot of machines that don't boot from usb but are fast enough
<Sysi> not really, I have one totally usable like that
<Sysi> actually maybe two
<knome> and your usb ports might just be broken.
<knome> or you didn't have extra usb sticks available
<mips1911> Dunno, I have a 2004 laptop here that can boot from usb but it's to slow in my opinion
<mips1911> let them eat cake I say :)
<knome> mips1911, we're not saying that couldn't happen too
<mips1911> even lubuntu is to slow for it
<pnarciso> I've noticed the other day that clutter was downloaded as an update, do xubuntu have any apps that needs clutter?
<knome> pnarciso, it should be off from today's images.
<knome> mr_pouit, hey :)
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> meeting minutes for today's meeting are up
<pleia2> I saw you working with mdke, yay!
<knome> yeah
<knome> feel free to join us :P
<pleia2> also I just died a little inside when I realized I was so excited about documentation
<pleia2> :P
<knome> awwwh1
<knome> hmm
<knome> s/1/!/
<pleia2> working working
<knome> bad excuse miss ;)
<pleia2> I fixed a 10 year old php form
<pleia2> it was awful :)
<knome> i'm sure
<knome> i created a "patch" for the ubuntu wiki today :P
<knome> italics wasn't italics
<knome> need css fix :P
<knome> and other similar
<pleia2> ah
<knome> mmh, fixed window borders in quantal <3
<knome> there's still something weird with vbox and dragging with mouse
<knome> disabling mouse integration seems to fix it though
<knome> pleia2, docs uploaded
<pleia2> :D :D
<knome> hoo-rahhh
<knome> time for a bottle of rum
<knome> err..
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> pleia2, see #ubuntu-doc 
<pleia2> I hate useless lp teams
<knome> well, considering our new strategy document, it's not completely useless
<knome> since people are promoted as xubuntu team members after probation periods on subteams
<pleia2> fair enough
<knome> and i don't know if there is any other team that could really "host" documentation contributors
<knome> do you have a minute and access to the wiki logs?
<pleia2> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/RecentChanges?max_days=90 has everything
<knome> right...
<knome> humm, should i be able to browse that?
<pleia2> let me do a grep against the log file to get something prettier
<knome> somehow, that doesn't look right
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> heh, of course the raw log files don't have usernames coorelated to edits
<knome> heh
<pleia2> just user ids, which are x-referenced to the directory with users
<knome> lol
<knome> hmm, i'll PM
<knome> some people have been approved/added to ~xubuntu-doc a moment ago, rejoice
<knome> pleia2, bug 967878 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967878 in Xubuntu Website "Xubuntu website has no "Contact us" -page" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967878
<knome> mr_pouit, stop lurking. we need a new xubuntu-artwork upload.
<pleia2> knome: ah yes, adding to my todo list to think about
<knome> pleia2, it's linked to the website blueprint too
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i'm thinking we're covering that quite well in "get help & support" and "get involved"
<knome> and that anything else would be duplication
<knome> those pages are directed to different subsets of people, and once you go to either one, you'll get the contact information you need
<knome> (eg. if you need help, we don't want them to subscribe to xubuntu-devel and apply for ~xubuntu-team)
<knome> s/them/you/
<pleia2> well, you probably have the best idea of what the OP had in mind for this bug :)
<knome> we were still working on the wiki and all
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> maybe we don't need that after all.
<pleia2> I think what we have is sufficient
<knome> one more work item gone away
<knome> AND
<knome> we don't have any more time-specific items
<knome> except the countdown banners should be up soonish, and so; but nothing affecting freezes
<pleia2> we win at blueprints!
<knome> haha yeah
<knome> looking at the overview of flavors, yeah
<knome> lubuntu is second at 53%, we have 92% listed, but have more, because that's before our DONE's today
<pleia2> I'm really quite pleased about docs, I had my doubts about timing
<knome> haha
<knome> don't worry baby, i'm an expert...
<pleia2> it was a lot of work, and we didn't have so many volunteers early on
<pleia2> :P
<knome> well, yeah. fortunately we had people who actually wrote and reviewed stuff
<knome> we also needed some docbook conversion madness by knome :P
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> pleia2, btw
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001946.html
<pleia2> haha, yeah I saw
<knome> yeah...
<pleia2> we got it in just in time! ...oh and then they extended it
<knome> yep
 * pleia2 shakefist
<pleia2> :)
<knome> well yeah, it's quite sad that if desktop team needs extended time, freezes are simply postponed
<pleia2> sad for translators
<knome> i thought the freezes were there for everybody to meet deadlines
<knome> well yeah, not for xubuntu translators
<knome> we won't have translations for Q
<knome> we didn't have them before either...
<pleia2> someday we shall learn how?
<knome> yeah, something to do during the R cycle too
<pleia2> that's good
<knome> jbicha and mdke can most probably help with that
<pleia2> jbicha mentioned on g+ that he is really going to try to get more people involved with docs next cycle, so I hope that means explaining some more to some of us so we can help
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, everybody told mdke is super busy
<knome> and his idle time was 60 days
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> when i poked him a bit he was just "oh, i just haven't done anything for ubuntu for ages; of course i'll help you, and hopefully i'll get more motivation too for coming cycles"
<pleia2> :)
<knome> "oh ok"
<pleia2> he does hold all the docs keys
<pleia2> nice that he's at least pingable
<knome> except that he doesn't have upload rights to xubuntu-doc ;]
<knome> so that's it for all the keys
<pleia2> doh
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-20
 * micahg has upload rights for xubuntu docs...
<micahg> hrm? jbicha has upload rights for xubuntu docs also
<micahg> ah, mdke was the one w/out upload rights for the docs
 * micahg should get that fixed...
<SkippersBoss> micahg, Is the oversized issue caused by both gtk2 and gtk3 libraries being used ??
<SkippersBoss> just a question
<micahg> SkippersBoss: gtk2/gtk3, python2/python3
<SkippersBoss> Aaah
<SkippersBoss> understood... will we go for gtk3 and pythin3 only for next release ??
<SkippersBoss> euh 13.4
<micahg> gtk3 if upstream does, we might go for python3 though
<SkippersBoss> ah so we are bound by upstream here
<elfy> knome - updated to new help docs - looks good :)
<knome> micahg, now we're oversized with i386 :]
<smartboyhw> bad.....
<knome> looks like something gave us 1MB
<knome> smartboyhw, no it's not, we have a plan for it
<smartboyhw> :}
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: if either of you are around, can you drop gnome-sudoku from the seeds; i'll ask for a respin after that
<smartboyhw> knome: IÂ´m surprised that you started making r blueprints already:)
<knome> smartboyhw, i did because i already know we need to work on those things
<smartboyhw> :) Good work:)
<micahg> knome: ok, I hope that will be enough :)
<bluesabre> knome: Thanks for adding me to xubuntu-doc, and I feel sorry for how many emails you must get in a day
<smartboyhw> Me too Thanks knome:)
 * elfy got scared and refused to read the e-mail he got 
<smartboyhw> elfy: You are in:)
<elfy> what?
<smartboyhw> elfy: Read the lines 5-6 lines above
<elfy> smartboyhw: I know ... I read the e-mail as well ;)
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> elfy: Then what is the email you refuse to read!?
<elfy> nvm
<smartboyhw> Excuse me what does nvm mean?
<elfy> nevermind
<smartboyhw> :)
<olbi> it is possible to update live cd before october start? I want to check my language translations in installer :D
<smartboyhw> olbi: zsync the iso image
<olbi> of course, I forgot it :D
<smartboyhw> ;D
<pnarciso> hello
<smartboyhw> Hi pnarciso 
<micahg> knome: should I drop sudoku from both or just i386?
<pnarciso> I'm disappointed that the latest daily build still won't install with custom partitions, ubiquity is seriously borked :(
<micahg> pnarciso: is there a bug filed?
<xnox> pnarciso: why not? it should? have you booted with `debug-ubiquity` and is there a bug?
<pnarciso> installation hangs on region selection , it doesn't get past there, the problem is related to ubiquity and it's present in all ubuntu variations. I can only install using alternate install
<ochosi> xnox: do you actually get highlighted when someone here says "ubiquity"? :)
<xnox> ochosi: yes. ubiquity lvm btrfs raid mdadm e2fsprogs sabdfl xnox .....
<pnarciso> this problem appeared after alpha3 and it wasn't fixed
<xnox> everything "interesting"
<ochosi> xnox: wow, that definitely sounds like it solves the problem of not getting highlighted often enough
<xnox> pnarciso: but how did we release beta1 then?
<xnox> ochosi: it's not that much highlights to be honest.
<elfy> pnarciso: I've installed fine with custom partitions numerous times
<pnarciso> good question
<ochosi> xnox: oh, then maybe add "bug" to your highlight list ;)
<pnarciso> The problem could be related to grub install
<xnox> pnarciso: at boot press Esc -> select language -> F6 -> type `only-ubiquity debug-ubiquity` boot.
<xnox> pnarciso: after it hangs switch to tty1 and do `ubuntu-bug ubiquity`
<pnarciso> I don't install grub on mbr, but in the root partition, because I use easybcd instead
<xnox> grub is borked on todays daily.
 * xnox not sure if it was respun or not
<elfy> pnarciso: someone was having issues with easybcd - they got a new one 
<pnarciso> the problem is not in easybcd
<xnox> pnarciso: please file a bug as outlined above
<pnarciso> installation hangs on region selection, It doesn't reach keyboard selection
<pnarciso> but I can see the installation status bar moving, but I can't advance past there
<pnarciso> I filed a bug when this issue first appeared, and it's not fixed yet, so It should be open
<xnox> pnarciso: bug # ?
<pnarciso> dunno must search :)
<olbi> hmm, I installed 4 times from LiveCD and all was ok :)
<olbi> with custom partitions
<pnarciso> with grub in mbr?
<olbi> i take deafult option, so it have to be in mbr
<pnarciso> I don't install in mbr
<pnarciso> that could be the issue
<olbi> installation was done on VM and normal machines
<olbi> maybe
<olbi> I choose mbr allways
<olbi> it's is saftly
<pnarciso> I prefer to use easybcd and boot from windows boot loader
<pnarciso> It's safer for me, because it's easier to uninstall linux without damaging the mbr
<olbi> yes, it is :) that's why I allways install os's on different hdd
<pnarciso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1020992
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020992 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "installation hang in clock_gettime if connected to net and download of updates checked" [Medium,Confirmed]
<olbi> yay, on todays LiveCD there is sound icon in indicator :D
<pnarciso> dunno if this is the same bug, but the symptoms are the same
<pnarciso> it's a shame messaging indicator could not make it
<pnarciso> here's another report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1039446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039446 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install hangs at time zone selector" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<micahg> does anyone have today's ISO locally that can give me an exact size?
<elfy> micahg: if no-one has I can zsync them and see 
<micahg> elfy: if you could, please, I'm trying to figure out if dropping sudoku is enough
<elfy> okey doke
<pleia2> -rw------- 1 elizabeth elizabeth 732954624 Sep 20  2012 quantal-desktop-amd64.iso
<pleia2> -rw------- 1 elizabeth elizabeth 738504704 Sep 20  2012 quantal-desktop-i386.iso
<elfy> or not then :)
<micahg> pleia2: thanks!
<micahg> so, we need another ~450k
<genii-around> Man. That's so tight.
<SkippersBoss> 0n 64 ?
<micahg> no, i386
<pleia2> I haven't tested in a while, black on black and grey traces are gone :)
<ochosi> pleia2: you mean in ubiquity?
<pleia2> yep
<ochosi> yup, my tiny patch was merged
<pleia2> thanks ochosi :)
 * micahg is dropping aisleriot (2MB) and keeping sudoku (850k)
<ochosi> farewell aisleriot... we had fun times
<micahg> ochosi: it's still in the archive :)
<ochosi> micahg: yeh, i know, just trying to make your job more fun ;)
<ochosi> bbl
<micahg> mr_pouit: knome: meta uploaded with aisleriot removed
<micahg> knome: I discovered aisleriot brought in the cards which was over 1MB by itself, so it made more sense to drop that
<knome> micahg, ok
<pleia2> knome: case badges are $1/ea when buying 100 ($1.45/ea for 50)
<pleia2> placing an order for 100
<knome> ok
<knome> i can pay for some of them, if you bring them to uds
<knome> also, do you have more stickers?
<pleia2> will do
<pleia2> yep, have more stickers
<knome> how much were those per sheet?
<pleia2> 104       Round Stickers                              $20.98
<knome> ooh
<knome> how many do you have? :P
<pleia2> plus $5 shipping
<knome> oh right
<pleia2> looks like 70 or so
<knome> you going to order more stickers before UDS?
<pleia2> doubtful
<knome> mmh
<pleia2> case badges are a "I shouldn't spend this money" item at the moment
<knome> is the shipping the same to finland?
<knome> lol
<pleia2> don't know, I order from their US outlet at moo.com, they also have moo.co.uk
<pleia2> so mine ship from the US
<knome> i can buy case badges for $30 worth from you
<pleia2> ok
<knome> well if you order stickers, i can buy that 104 pieces too :P
<knome> but if you'd only order that one batch, no need
<pleia2> yeah I'm not planning on other moo orders right now
<knome> yeah
<knome> i can probably buy more of the case stickers actually
<knome> i'll get back to you next week.
<pleia2> ok
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit?
<micahg> knome: yes?
<ochosi> micahg: he went away a few mins ago
<ochosi> but i can tell you what he wanted
<ochosi> thing is that it seems the xubuntu-artwork package hasn't been updated for beta2 yet
<ochosi> actually all themes would need a new upload, and elementary-xfce icon theme
<ochosi> micahg: so the question is whether you could do the upload in case mr_pouit doesn't return in time?
<micahg> if it's in the branch, I can upload it, but I'm unfamiliar with how the packaging is done
<ochosi> usually he grabbed the tarballs from github
<ochosi> i use tags to do releases
<ochosi> so he usually grabs the latest tag from git master
<ochosi> i don't think the updates are in the branch yet
<ochosi> bbiab
<pleia2> case badges ordered (I had to call and make a payment over the phone, it was like 1995!)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> looking forward to seeing them
<pleia2> they said they should ship out some time early next week :)
<ochosi> cool
<xubuntu_quantal_> When multiple workspaces are present, dragging a window against the side borders will move the window into an adjacent workspace.  When a single workspace is enabled, dragging the window against the side borders will snap the window to the side, sometimes called the "aero snap".
<xubuntu_quantal_> 1) To me, this is a bug. Very different functionality based on a subtle difference. 2) The aerosnap function is more useful, therefore, how can I force that functionality? Where do I set that?
<xubuntu_quantal_> BAM! Settings > Window Manager > Advanced: Uncheck "Wrap Workspace when dragging window off screen", which overrides "Snap Window to screen border".
<xubuntu_quantal_> weird. Still not totally appropriate, but w/e
<xubuntu_quantal_> Second, there is a bug I'd like to help investigate; When I try transfering files through Samba, the file transfer freezes and I can't cancel the operation.
<xubuntu_quantal_> Working in precise last night, broken in Quantal today. What package would that be on the client side?
<xubuntu_quantal_> Cool
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-21
<jnadeau> hello
<knome> hullo
<jnadeau> i have a question 
<knome> go ahead
<jnadeau> i'm a blind user and I'm running xubuntu with orca 
<jnadeau> i've managed to get xfce to be accessible with orca but have one problem 
<jnadeau> firefox and thunderbird are very accessible under gnome and I can't get them accessible under xfce any ideas
<knome> i have followed the discussion on the mailing list, and unfortunately i don't have any ideas
<jnadeau> Yeah I can't figure it out and its driving me crazy
<knome> have you tried asking #ubuntu-accessibility?
<knome> i know that's not explicitly xubuntu, but they might have some ideas
<jnadeau> i'm running xubuntu right now but if I log out and into gnome firefox and thunderbird are accessible but if I log back into xfce they become unaccessible again
<knome> yes, i'm aware of that
<jnadeau> Yeah I will try ubuntu accessibility thanks for your time and help.
<jnadeau> Also xubuntu is looking really great 
<jnadeau> i'm running 12.10 right now 
<knome> hmm, no offense meant, but if you are bling, how can you see? :)
<knome> heh, blind, not bling...
<jnadeau> I don't understand what you are asking i'm sorry
<knome> jnadeau, i link "looking great" with seeing
<jnadeau> well I mean looking great from my point of view
<knome> jnadeau, heh, yeah. thanks for the feedback :)
<jnadeau> like the way it runs and its performance 
<knome> it's actually good to know we have users with accessibility issues too
<knome> and that we can actually deliver a usable experience
<jnadeau> Yeah it's great outside of the whole firefox and thunderbird thing
<knome> do you have any browser and/or mail app that you can use meanwhile?
<jnadeau> not really thats why it is such a big problem 
<jnadeau> no other browsers are accessible 
<jnadeau> and evolution is full of accessibility bugs
<micahg> hrm, we should have the accessibility stuff installed
<knome> jnadeau, do you have the package 'at-spi' installed?
<jnadeau> yes I do 
<jnadeau> I also checked the accessibility box  in the xfce menu
<jnadeau> and checked the box to start the extra gnome things to see if that would help but still nothing 
<knome> jnadeau, can you try this:
<jnadeau> sure
<knome> jnadeau, create .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home dir, and add the following line:
<knome> jnadeau, gtk-modules="gail:atk-bridge"
<jnadeau> I did add this but I put it in my .bashrc file
<jnadeau> so i should create this folder instead and put it there 
<knome> file, and yes, you could try if it works
<jnadeau> I also put this in my .profile to see if that would help and it didn't work either 
<jnadeau> where should I create that folder 
<knome> if you add that to .profile or .bashrc, i think the line should be "export GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge"
<knome> create the *file* .gtkrc-2.0 in your home folder
<jnadeau> yes that is how I put it in 
<knome> okay
<knome> then i doubt this other fix will help, but you can always try
<jnadeau> I will try anything 
<jnadeau> hang on and I'll create that folder 
<jnadeau> okay I created the file 
<jnadeau> do I have to log out 
<knome> at least it won't hurt if you do
<jnadeau> just to make sure I did the right thing I opened leafpad and created the file .gtkrc-2.0 and put in that command
<knome> yes
<jnadeau> okay i'll be back thanks for all your help 
<knome> np
<jnadeau> no it didn't work 
<jnadeau> but I think I might have found the problem possibly 
<jnadeau> so thanks again for all your time and help.
<pleia2> knome: first draft of doc post for xubuntu.org is up
<knome> we fit on CD's :)
<SkippersBoss> CONGRATS
<SkippersBoss> so the 450k has been found
<elfy> :)
<knome> no... we lost it
<knome> that's why we fit ;)
<SkippersBoss> lol
<SkippersBoss> Now you guys get some sleep
<SkippersBoss> well deserved
 * knome is afraid it'll find our new address though
 * knome hides
<knome> hah, i just woke up ;)
<SkippersBoss> some1 is in a happy mood today
<knome> well, a few hours ago...
<knome> i'm just pretending
<SkippersBoss> I know the feeling
<knome> no reason to be grumpy and bath in the depression either so...
<SkippersBoss> till the next deadline lol
<knome> not too much to do for Q an more
<elfy> as far as I can see from here - the only things not working in quantal are the indicators - but from what I can see that's a way off and the double partitions thing - no idea what's going on with that
<elfy> I for one applaud those who've done what they have 
<olbi> I saw yesterday on LiveCD that sound icon appear in indicator :D
<olbi> and works good
<elfy> working here too olbi - had to re-add the indicator thing 
<olbi> :)
<SkippersBoss> excuse my ignorance but what is Yelp ?
<pleia2> help browser (rather than using firefox)
<SkippersBoss> Ah your ladyship... : Hmm Yes we want to (in my opinion)
<SkippersBoss> Help files/documentation needs to be accessable with a minimum of fuz in my opnion. 
<pleia2> well, you'd still launch it in the same way, just by going to "Help" in the menu :)
<SkippersBoss> ff has too many distracting bells nd whistles
<pleia2> not sure if it's an lighter application
<pleia2> yeah
<SkippersBoss> Most people got FF loaded up with at least Adblock and maybe autopager
<SkippersBoss> SO my personal preferance would be a simple browser
<micahg> the problem is w/out yelp/gnome-user-docs, some of the applications won't have help
<pleia2> so it probably makes sense for our stuff to use yelp, if we need it anyway
<SkippersBoss> that's solves that issue then
<micahg> \o/ looks like xfce 4.12 will have some gtk3 support
<micahg> which is good as we'll probably have that + some pieces of 4.14 for 14.04
<pleia2> :D
<knome> micahg, yeah, i read the same; hoorahh!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-22
<bluesabre> hey knome... orage points to 'play' for the sound command, but we don't actually have play installed.  Bug-worthy?
<knome> definitely
<bluesabre> it's an orage preference, so should I log it for orage, xubuntu-desktop, or something else?
<knome> i'm thinking either orage or xubuntu-default-settings, but because others don't probably use orage, maybe just that then
<bluesabre> ok, thanks
<knome> np
<pleia2> knome: doc post draft is up, but we probably want to wait until monday to publish anyway
<knome> pleia2, yeah, i still haven't checked that
<pleia2> I fixed the screenshot that was in it, first was a little squished
<pleia2> wording could be fixed, it's very casual at the moment
<knome> bluesabre, feel free to check out that too
 * pleia2 works on marketing flyer wording for real now
<knome> nice
<bluesabre> knome, we don't have xfhelp4 installed
<bluesabre> :O
<knome> bluesabre, heh.
<bluesabre> The screenshooter's Help button seems to depend on it, I'll report the bug if apport ever gets moving :)
<knome> okay, bed now
<knome> see you later
<knome> pleia2, hmm. re: flyers; if we want three-fold, full sheet and 4-per-sheet, that actually effectively already means 6 brochures to be designed, since EU/US paper sizes
<knome> pleia2, naturally we can reuse all stuff and it's not *too* much work, i'm just thinking about maintaining that all
<knome> pleia2, looked at the doc article at .org, did some modifications and wrote a bit more
<pleia2> knome: having them all is kind of a dream :) we should focus on just a couple we want
<knome> pleia2, well, i think one format for both sizes
<knome> pleia2, color/b&w versions are some maintaining too, if we specifically want to optimize the b&w
<pleia2> knome: I'm thinking we'll do full page, both sizes, color and black&white - with a priority preference for B&W
<pleia2> I certainly don't have the budget for color :)
<pleia2> B&W on blue paper is about what I'll do
<knome> too bad there is no white ink
<pleia2> might be fun to do a color 3-fold handout in color
<knome> well, it's fun to do lots of stuff
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> like 4 meter high ads...
<pleia2> it's fun to make knome do all the work
<knome> of course!
<pleia2> :)
 * pleia2 goes to help unwrap fiance's shiny new laptop
<knome> hmm, which one?
<pleia2> some toshiba
<knome> yeah, "help unwrap", yeah...
<pleia2> :D
 * knome doesn't believe a second
<knome> the last three words told it all
<knome> "shiny new laptop"
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-23
<pleia2> knome: do we know what has to be done to get this updated? http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<knome> pleia2, lol, no
<knome> pleia2, that should be simple enough though
<pleia2> hope so :)
<pleia2> notice that as I tried to work out wording for our website re: offline vs online docs
<pleia2> noticed
<knome> see #ubuntu-doc 
<knome> we could upload the new docs at xubuntu.org/documentation too
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-16
<micahg> ochosi: I have the patch and the change I need to make, but I'll have to upload tomorrow
<Noskcaj> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xubuntu/xubuntu-recent-bug-tasks.html yay?
<ochosi> ali1234: wanna help write up the instructions for gtk3 indicators in xubuntu in the wiki?
<jjfrv8> Running Xfwm4 Settings testcase, hit bug 1181134. Had to do a hard reboot after submitting the bug. Everything was locked up.
<ubottu> bug 1181134 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-indicator-plugin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181134
<Noskcaj> The latest update just gave me the "ubuntu web browser". Can someone explain
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> yeah, i got that too
<ochosi> seems like some mobile stuff
<bluesabre> I saw one of the packages pulled in click package support the other day
<Noskcaj> It's called webbrowser app
<skellat> bluesabre Noskcaj -- Flag that to cjwatson as I don't think he wants that happening on the desktop side at all.  He'd possibly appreciate the feedback.
<knome> yap.
<knome> or stgraber.
<knome> or just poke people at #ubuntu-release
<knome> bluesabre, you're in the release team..
<knome> bluesabre, but you don't seem to be on the channel
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1204486
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> the priority of this bug needs to be set to high I guess
<knome> we're working on it.
<brainwash> is it a gtk-greeter bug only?
<ochosi> it doesn't seem like it
<ochosi> we don't know yet what's causing it
<ochosi> not unlikely that it's logind
<ochosi> even ubuntu seems to have that problem
<ochosi> i'm currently asking whether ubuntu-gnome has the same issue
<brainwash> ofc it's related to the systemd/logind :D
<ochosi> yeah, but it's not certain whether the problem is in xfce4-session, or lightdm or the greeter
<brainwash> lubuntu users seems to be affected too
<knome> ochosi, do you think you could come up with a better bug description?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, which kinda rules out xfce4-session...
<ochosi> (but not entirely)
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1213837
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1213837 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "I cannot select an Xsession after logout from Lubuntu Saucy Daily" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> knome: well i'd love to, but it's just not really clear what's going on yet
<knome> ochosi, can we make it point to something else than the languages?
<knome> "Greeter is in lock-mode after logout" or sth
<brainwash> restart is missing to
<brainwash> after the first logout
<brainwash> the option to restart I mean
<ochosi> yeah, true
<ochosi> same version of the greeter works fine though in R
<brainwash> can consolekit still be used in saucy?
<ochosi> well tbh i don't like the fact that ubuntu is pushing unstable versions of lightdm down our throat
<knome> ochosi, but again, whining about it won't fix the bugs, will it?
<ochosi> well don't you whine about my whining, i'm at least asking around
<Unit193> In theory it could, if he needed to vent before he could take a llook. ;)
<ochosi> anyhoo, the desktop-folks say they're too busy to even look
<knome> ochosi, fssst, :P
<ochosi> knome: my main point being: it wasn't even whining, but rather pointing out what might be the source of the problem (lightdm being updated with micro-releases to hopefully get Mir to work for 13.10)
<knome> yeah, sure
<knome> i'm not whining about anything
<knome> i'm just as frustrated that it doesn't work as you are
<ochosi> yeah, blows a bit that even the ubuntu folks don't see this as problematic as we are
<ochosi> we even have a patch in our pipe
<knome> is it confirmed that works?
<ochosi> which would fix things for most i guess
<knome> okay...
<ochosi> well it doesn't hurt anyway
<knome> so where's the patch?
<ochosi> i have it here locally
<ochosi> but what it doesn't fix is locking
<knome> okay
<ochosi> probably not a tragedy because we're not using it by default in 13.10
<knome> what does it fix then?
<knome> locking?
<ochosi> the logging out (or so it seems)
<ochosi> it still takes ages to log out though
<ochosi> it just fixes the greeter somewhat
<ochosi> have to retest though
<knome> fixes - in what way?
<ochosi> brb
<knome> skellat, thanks for updating the wiki. missed that.
<knome> and with that - bah, need to make sure i can make the meeting.
<ochosi> so selecting languages is fine with that i guess
<ochosi> and sessions too
<ochosi> so the patch does improve the situation
<Unit193> knome: This week?
<ochosi> not sure it 100% fixes all of the problems
<knome> Unit193, tuesday 15UTC
<knome> was the comments from robert of any help?
<Unit193> Ah, thanks.  Adding to cal.
<ochosi> yeah, that's what we used to create the patch
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-17
<Noskcaj> Is there anyone who can update the patch on bug 733563 ? I'll do the packaging and debian-ing if needed
<ubottu> bug 733563 in xfce4-xkb-plugin (Ubuntu) "Can't change font for keyboard layout indicator" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733563
<Noskcaj> !botsnack
<ubottu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<ochosi> hey everyone, bluesabre and i have pushed a fix for bug 1204486 to our PPA, instructions on how to test are in the comment #15 of this bug. everyone running saucy please test! thanks in advance
<ubottu> bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204486
<ochosi> (just mentioning this ahead of the meeting as i'm not sure i'll be able to make it)
<knome> ugh, looks like i'm not able to make the meeting either...
<ochosi> knome: can you test the greeter though?
<ochosi> even a test in raring is useful to some extent
<knome> yeah, i can do that
<knome> either before or after the meeting
<knome> but today, yup
<knome> do you consider vbox testing as good as real hardware?
<astraljava> I did not give that information to you as to be treated like a guinea pig.
<knome> huh?
<astraljava> But yeah, sure. I'll report test installations. :)
<brainwash> ochosi: what's the deal with the gtk2 greeter? can I use it on my saucy installation?
<knome> upgrading my saucy vbox, then adding the ppa
<astraljava> Yeah ok, just thought it was good enough for a funny coincidence.
<knome> heh, right
 * knome is lost with too many queries and stuff to be done
 * astraljava wishes he could help... but not really.
<knome> i know
<knome> i also know how you can help
<knome> STOP PM'ing me!
 * astraljava sneaks away silently
<knome> j/k
<ochosi> knome: if you can reproduce the bug in a VM, i guess testing the fix there is ok too
<knome> yup
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, you can use that too if you want
<brainwash> ochosi: ok :)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I did a quick test of bug fix on hardware. looks good. "Unlock" button replaced with "Log In". Session and Language icons on panel work.
<jjfrv8> log out is still slow though
<knome> i'd assume that's another issue (unfortunately)
<knome> wondering if that's related to our slow login bugs :P
<jjfrv8> knome, is there still going to be a meeting? I got called into work. I could make it, but under an alias.
<knome> i don't know. i'm not able to make the meeting myself.
<elfy> ochosi: that lightdm fix works here - I now though have a longer logout time it seems, not got time to check whether that's a real longer or not though at the moment
<ochosi> elfy, jjfrv8: the logout time is entirely unrelated
<ochosi> that also seems to affect all other *buntus
<knome> locking takes me to xscreensaver
<ochosi> yeah, light-locker was never uploaded
<knome> ok
<ochosi> it's possible to test it via a PPA
<elfy> ochosi: ok - well for the moment - I am happy to be able to logout :)
<ochosi> so hopefully we can have it in T
<knome> and yes, the greeter still says "log in" for the locked user as well
<knome> everything seems to be working with the patch
<knome> except locking
<ochosi> well the locking doesn't work via lightdm with xscreensaver anyway
 * knome breathes again
<ochosi> so it shouldn't say unlock
<ochosi> so good to hear that the patch works
<elfy> \o/
<ochosi> we should get it uploaded asap then
<knome> correct
<elfy> back later - hope meeting goes ok 
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you get a chance to play with cairo-drawing the background, we can fix two bugs in one upload
<skellat> knome: I have to head to the local Amish enclave so I won't be at the meeting today.
<bluesabre> that's an original excuse ;)
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> bluesabre: i agree, would be good to take a look at the background painting, not sure i can do it today though, kinda busy...
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's cool
<bluesabre> I might get a chance to look at it myself tonight
<bluesabre> and since you're not using nouveau, you can't really test if it fixes the bug
<ochosi> well i can theoreticall switch to nouveau again
<ochosi> it just breaks suspending
<ochosi> which i like to use
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: going to be around for the meeting?
<ochosi> it's going to start in 5min or in 1hr5min?
<bluesabre> I think 3 minutes
<bluesabre> should I kick it off, or are one of the more chair-ly people here?
<ochosi> i'd say go ahead
<ochosi> i'll be aroundish for at least the first half
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 17 15:02:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bluesabre> #chair ochosi
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
<GridCube> :)
<bluesabre> who's here?
<GridCube> o/
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<ochosi> o/
<bluesabre> hey folks!
<bluesabre> #topic Items carried on
<bluesabre> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<bluesabre> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<bluesabre> #action knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt
<bluesabre> #action mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later 
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
<bluesabre> #action micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch
<bluesabre> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<bluesabre> I'm not very good at this :D
<GridCube> P: you are doing well
<bluesabre> basically copy-pasting knome's script from last time
<ochosi> hehe, looks fine to me
<bluesabre> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
<bluesabre> any updates here?
 * ochosi wasn't involved
<jjfrv8-work> I think the vote has been postponed twice and it doesn't look like we have a quorum today.
<bluesabre> looks like it was knome, pleia2, micahg, and possibly jjfrv8-work involved
<bluesabre> looks like we'll postpone this for next meeting then
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money 
<bluesabre> another item where we need knome/pleia2 most likely
<bluesabre> but... any thoughts, ideas, etc?
<GridCube> no, i think we got the tshirts pretty much
<bluesabre> oh, any updates on that?
 * bluesabre reads last meeting backlog now
<bluesabre> knome had an action item here
<bluesabre> so, if nothing else, we'll move on
<bluesabre> #topic Team updates
<bluesabre> ochosi?
<ochosi> ok, for artwork...
<ochosi> our themes have seen new releases today
<ochosi> exciting news, we re-gained granite support (for elementary-os apps), gtk3.9 support and support for client-side decorations
<ochosi> so in case people enable the gnome3.10 ppa our themes will not break
<ochosi> i've sent an email to mr_pouit already requesting the upload before UIF
<bluesabre> cool, want to add some #infos, and give mrpouit an action item?
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> #nick mr_pouit
<ochosi> sorry
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> (i'm half-working here)
<ochosi> #info our themes have seen new releases today
<bluesabre> me too, its cool
<ochosi> #info exciting news, we re-gained granite support (for elementary-os apps), gtk3.9 support and support for client-side decorations
<ochosi> #action mr_pouit was asked via email to upload the updated shimmer-themes package to Saucy before UIF
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit was asked via email to upload the updated shimmer-themes package to Saucy before UIF
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> for applications...
<bluesabre> #info the latest gmusicbrowser is now in saucy
<bluesabre> #info ochosi and I have been working on a lightdm-gtk-greeter fix for lock/login issues, to be uploaded tonight
<bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1204486
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> #info for those wanting to test the lightdm-gtk-greeter fix, read comment #15 on the bugreport
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> GridCube, how's the DA xubuntu-showcase going?
<bluesabre> haven't looked at it for a while :)
<GridCube> pretty much stalled
<bluesabre> :(
<GridCube> we cant reach the objectives
<GridCube> if we dont start advertising, and we cant start advertising because no one has fullfiled the rules
<GridCube> mostly licencies problems 
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that's no fun
<GridCube> we can get users to change their licences, but we hardly cant get a licence for their desktop backgrounds
<GridCube> wich in many cases is central to the destop setting
<bluesabre> right
<GridCube> so yeah
<GridCube> i got a few users to get their permissions and im waiting for knome to have a moment to try and upload the first soon
<GridCube> i hope
<GridCube> lets see if after that things move at a better pace
<GridCube> so
<GridCube> #info the xubuntu showcase is doing work but it moves slowly
<GridCube> #action knome and GridCube to join and prepare the first few showcases 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and GridCube to join and prepare the first few showcases
<bluesabre> cool, hoping to see some momentum on that :)
<GridCube> :)
<bluesabre> does anybody else have updates?
<bluesabre> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> I saw the announcement from last week, congrats jjfrv8-work on the extra responsibilities :)
<micahg-work> sorry I'm late
<bluesabre> hey micahg-work!
<jjfrv8-work> Thanks.
<bluesabre> it's okay, we've got myself, ochosi, GridCube, and jjfrv8-work
<bluesabre> We're on announcements, but if you've got any updates, :)
<micahg-work> nope, ochosi's gmb patch still needs uploading (which I should get to tonight)
<bluesabre> oh, which patch is this?
<micahg-work> still need to discuss indicators for saucy
<micahg-work> albuminfo plugin IIRC
<bluesabre> oh cool
<micahg-work> unfortunately, that's about all I'll get to before the weekend unless there's something critical
<bluesabre> what's the status on the indicators for saucy?  are we considering using the gtk3 wrapper or discussing broken indicators?
 * bluesabre is behind on updates
<micahg-work> well, I'm not 100% up to date on what's going on
<bluesabre> ochosi: are you more up-to-date?
<ochosi> well the gtk3 indicators seem stable so far
<micahg-work> if we can get the existing indicators working without too much work or risk, I'd rather do that for saucy and try to land the gtk3 indicator stuff when T opens
<ochosi> but there hasn't been a release on libxfce4ui or the panel
<micahg-work> if we have no choice, we can either drop indicators for saucy or try to get a freeze exception to push the gtk3 stuff
<ochosi> imo it doesn't make a huge difference though
<ochosi> we also ship random snapshots of abiword :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> micahg-work, have you seen this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<micahg-work> abiword's not a core DE component ;)
<micahg-work> bluesabre, yeah, that's what we're discussing I think
<micahg-work> can someone please subscribe me
<bluesabre> ok, cool
<bluesabre> will do now
<micahg-work> thanks
<micahg-work> ali1234 did a lot of digging for this
<micahg-work> or at least this bug is half the puzzle
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> my personal take is that fixing the soundindicator won't go down without a lot of work
<ochosi> at least that's what ali1234's comments on it suggested
<micahg-work> right, I don't think porting the indicator is worthwhile
<ochosi> so i think pushing new versions for gtk3 support or dropping indicators are the remaining options
<micahg-work> so, either there's some way to use the gtk2 dbus service
<micahg-work> or one of those 2 options
<ochosi> gotta run folks
<ochosi> sorry
<bluesabre> its cool
<bluesabre> any there any other announcements?
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> #topic New and emerging items
<bluesabre> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> I think we should postpone this until there are more of us around
<micahg-work> well, we have beta 2 next week
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> thursday?
<micahg-work> that's why we had the meeting in the first place
<micahg-work> yeah, I think the freeze is Monday for beta 2 now
<micahg-work> do we still need docs uploaded?
<bluesabre> I'm not sure
<micahg-work> jjfrv8-work, are the latest docs in saucy?
<jjfrv8-work> They're about 80% complete. I still have some review to do.
<micahg-work> doc string freeze is thursday
<jjfrv8-work> oops. Looks like I won't make it.
<micahg-work> thursday 21:00 UTC, so I'd suggest pushing as far as we can, then finding someone to upload (I won't be around)
<micahg-work> jjfrv8-work, maybe talk to the release team and the translators to see if we can get more time then
<jjfrv8-work> Ok
<micahg-work> we only have 4 weeks until release
 * micahg-work won't get to some of his pet projects for the cycle either it seems
<bluesabre> Should we schedule a meeting for thursday to try to get a last-minute idea of where we are for beta2?
<micahg-work> I won't be around, but feel free, and leave me notes if something needs to be done before Monday (freeze)
<jjfrv8-work> I can't make Thursday
<bluesabre> you can send updates to the -devel ml before the meeting, we'll pick them up for the meeting
 * micahg-work will brb
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> #info next meeting, tentatively scheduled for Thursday, September 19, 1500 UTC
<bluesabre> #action knome to change date/time of next meeting as needed
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to change date/time of next meeting as needed
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we'll go ahead and wrap up, I gotta run
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 17 15:57:39 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-09-17-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-09-17-15.02.html
<bluesabre> thanks everyone
<bluesabre> bbiab
<bluesabre> micahg-work, we'll have a new upload ready for lightdm-gtk-greeter tonight, I'll get it ready and subscribe you when its good
 * micahg-work is back
<micahg-work> bluesabre, ok, if it's quick, I can upload tonight
<bluesabre> yeah, should just be a few lines diff
<pleia2> bluesabre: thanks for running the meeting :)
<bluesabre> pleia2: yeah, knome left me little choice ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> hai.
<elfy> thanks for the meeting bluesabre 
<knome> probably don't want a meeting for thursday (freezes and stuff) and i can't attend, but i'm fine if people are around and want to go through some things
<knome> and yeah, thanks for chairing - you did well
<knome> bluesabre, ^
<knome> i met jussi (former IRCC member, kubuntu council member) today and got some ideas how to organize the t-shirt stuff
<knome> probably not ideal for us, but that's one option
 * elfy gets confused with jussi's - I sort of know one 
<knome> jussi schultink, "jussi" or "jussi01" in irc
<elfy> that one :p
<knome> yep
<knome> so yeah, i met him IRL today
<knome> that's why i couldn't make the meeting... :P
<knome> and astraljava too
<elfy> nice 
<elfy> one day I'll meet someone - I have the upper hand - I know what some of you lot look like :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, just come to finland...
<elfy> I know :)
<bluesabre> hey knome, elfy
<knome> hai bluesabre 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<knome> not bad
<skellat> jjfrv8: There was an e-mail by Daniel Holbach about the sponsors pool being overflowing.  Robbie Basak just got it down to 52 pending requests.  LP Bug #1207493 remains stuck so we'll need to talk about finding an uploader for Thursday.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207493
<skellat> SEE ALSO: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<Unit193> GridCube: I have a shot using knome's wallpaper, if you need something with a clear and known license.
<GridCube> Unit193, that would help
<Unit193> It's really not interesting, but alrighty.  I uploaded it somewhere...
<Unit193> GridCube: OK, so you want a window or two open, any preference?  And should I kill my conky config, or do some major blur of it all, or just remove the calendar and blur the IP? :P
<GridCube> probaly just the ip
<GridCube> the idea is to show a pretty desktop setting with all the fancy stuffs peoples adds to it, not just default xubuntu desktop with adifferent wallaper
<GridCube> that is boring
<Unit193> Sure, mine isn't too different though, mainly conky which has my calendar in it. :P
<GridCube> P: thats different
<elfy> licence for the wallpaper is always going to be a stumbling block I think
<elfy> I certainly never bother looking
<GridCube> no, no one ever does
<GridCube> though if its something we *have* to have...
<elfy> I understand that GridCube 
<elfy> we're likely to be having exactly the same conversations every couple of months :)
<GridCube> yes
<Unit193> elfy: Yes, I quite agree.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, how about that keyboard shortcuts overlay?
<bluesabre> ha
<bluesabre> haha
<bluesabre> yeah, maybe for early in the T cycle
<bluesabre> but that does remind me
<bluesabre> micahg, micahg-work: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts
<bluesabre> not sure if its too late for this now
<bluesabre> knome too (though he already approved) ^
<Unit193> bluesabre: OK, so it's not even ready for testing?  Alrighty.
<skellat> bluesabre: Did you file an FFe bug yet?  Need Docs signoff and a few others before trying to get it in.
<bluesabre> skellat: figured as much, I had the merge request in before FF, but it got missed
<skellat> Where is the merge?
<bluesabre> I'll work on the FFe on that if everyone else agrees to it, or we can wait until later to merge
<Unit193> Technically doesn't it fix a bug? ;)
<skellat> Ah, but which one?
<bluesabre> merge: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
<bluesabre> bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1165266
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1165266 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "missing keyboard shortcuts" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> though it doesn't hit all of the shortcuts requested in that bug
<skellat> Hmm
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<Unit193> GridCube: https://www.dropbox.com/s/msowfigemo517zp/shot.png?m good?
<GridCube> Unit193, :)
<Unit193> License however you want, and wallpaper is http://temp.knome.fi/.expwall/
<knome> not permanent url, please don't link there.
<knome> but yep, feel free to use that
<Unit193> Sure, just saying where I got it and whatever license that is.
<Unit193> knome: I haven't changed it out of rage, so good job1
<Unit193> !
<knome> lol
<knome> ta
<GridCube> Unit193, http://gridcube.deviantart.com/art/Unit193-s-Desktop-at-17th-of-September-of-2013-400894406?ga_submit_new=10%253A1379446208
<Unit193> Boom.
<Unit193> Hopefully that'll help and be something easy to approve.
<GridCube> http://fav.me/d6mol0h
<Unit193> See?  That's different. ;)
<GridCube> P:
<GridCube> laters
<andrzejr> ali1234, are scroll events working for you in gtk3 indicators?
<ali1234> no
<andrzejr> I'm seeing some weird issues
<ali1234> the problem in indicator-sound is supposed to be fixed now
<ali1234> but it still doesn't work
<ochosi> hey you two
<andrzejr> I've fixed that in git master, so now I have indicator-sound working on 13.04
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> maybe i should pull and install again
<andrzejr> but on 13.10 I get some weird notification/event loop
<andrzejr> xfce4-notifyd flickers continuously and finally crashes
<ochosi> andrzejr: works for me
<ochosi> (in 13.10)
<andrzejr> tested on virtualbox - maybe related
<ochosi> so that's fixed it seems
<knome> ochosi, robert's online if you want to chat with him
<ochosi> works as expected, and as it used to with the gtk2 indicator
<ochosi> knome: where?
<knome> #ubuntu-release at least
<knome> and PM, i suppose :P
<ochosi> yeah, found him in -desktop
<ochosi> andrzejr: congrats btw, nice to see the scrolling work again!
<knome> good good
<ochosi> ok, we'll see whether i'll get a reply
<ochosi> never caught him on irc so afr
<ochosi> far
<ochosi> so that'd be a first
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<knome> i already thanked him for chiming in
<knome> but i thought you might have further questions or so
<ochosi> chiming in?
<ochosi> where?
<knome> in the bug comments.
<knome> little community/link building doesn't hurt
<ali1234> andrzejr: works ok for me too
<ali1234> andrzejr: have you seen this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glipper/+bug/1203888/
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator doesn't work in Saucy" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> it's nothing to do with xfce, but maybe you have some clue for me what is causing it?
<ochosi> knome: ok, that was a first now.
<knome> :)
<ochosi> knome: got some pointers wrt the restart bug, he'll try to look at the others and gave me some logind-scient names
<knome> cool
<ali1234> ochosi: where is this wiki page for gtk3 indicators?
<jjfrv8> skellat, I didn't know the SRU docs had another shot at being uploaded until the final point release next year.
<knome> jjfrv8, we can get them to backports, but the main target is the SRU
<jjfrv8> So do I need to be doing anything?
<andrzejr> ali1234, I guess you are not seeing that event loop issue, are you. Do you have a virtualbox vm to try?
<knome> i don't think that's a high priority issue
<ali1234> andrzejr: yes i do, but it is completely default at the moment
<jjfrv8> knome, I also didn't realize that b2 was my deadline for the saucy docs.
<knome> per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule, doc freeze is september 19
<jjfrv8> I guess I'm going to get fired already :P
<knome> nah
<knome> we can get exceptions, but we should of course try to move as quickly as possible
<knome> another thing we need to resolve is who is going to upload that new package
<jjfrv8> I think I might be able to finish up before then.
<knome> good to hear that, but if you don't, don't lose your sleep
<ali1234> andrzejr: i want to update this wiki page as i'm installing everything in the VM, but i don't know the address of it, when ochosi comes back and tells me where it is then i'll do both things at once
<jjfrv8> would the uploading normally be my responsibility. I realize I don't have the rights yet.
<knome> jjfrv8, no, not really
<knome> jjfrv8, note that we are talking about a different from uploading the branch in launchpad
<knome> jjfrv8, even i don't have upload rights
<jjfrv8> well I'll try to get you the last batch at least in time for you to do the merges.
<knome> sure, that's a quick task
<knome> just tell me if there's something i can help with
<jjfrv8> thanks. will do.
<knome> also re: your comment on the last MP, if we change things after docfreeze/other freezes, those freeze exceptions imply doc changes, so you don't have to worry about guessing things
<knome> we can change the docs then
<ochosi> ali1234: sry for the daily, coming up shortly
<ochosi> i have really sucky connectivity here atm :(
<ochosi> always disconnects me again
<knome> of course, in such case, developers should be in touch with you to let you know a doc update might be needed
<jjfrv8> ah, ok.
<ochosi> ali1234: right now, a very rough page has been started here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<ali1234> ochosi: thanks. i'll fill it in with all information as i go
<knome> jjfrv8, ^ you might want to follow that spec as well
<knome> ochosi, make sure you notify jjfrv8 if things start to roll towards oops-let's-upload-this-for-saucy-anyway, aka paperwork-for-ochosi
<knome> (or -micahg)
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ochosi> ali1234: thank you!
<ochosi> bluesabre: i would also try to sell off the missing kb-shortcuts as bugfix
<ochosi> and it's a trivial patch in the end
<ochosi> not problematic at all
<andrzejr> ali1234, I've been looking into that "child-added" issue. That's a signal of DbusmenuMenuitem
<ali1234> andrzejr: in virtualbox it doesn't work properly for me...
<ali1234> it says it is loading the sound indicator but it doesn't show on the panel
<ali1234> weird
<ali1234> perhaps due to different git versions on the other two needed bits?
<knome> ok, i'm off for today
<knome> see you all later
<knome> nighty
<ali1234> looks like i need to reboot then
<ali1234> andrzejr: right, rebooted... now i get the weird behaviour outside virtualbox too
<ali1234> andrzejr: it looks like something changed in xfce4-panel or libxfce4ui that has broken it
<ochosi> ali1234: what weird behavior exactly?
<ali1234> no sound indicator shows up at all
<ali1234> oh hang on
<ali1234> i restarted the panel and now it's there
<ali1234> could be a race condition?
<ali1234> i dunno what is wrong inside virtualbox
<ali1234> i updated the wiki page with the missing libs btw
<ochosi> for me sometimes the icon is missing on startup
<ochosi> but after restarting the panel, the icon gets shown
<ochosi> so it's not really the indicator missing for me
<ali1234> yes, same
<ali1234> inside virtualbox though it never shows
<ochosi> strange
<ali1234> a load of others are missing too
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i only use sound, network and power
<ochosi> the other two show
<ochosi> and messages also always shows
<ochosi> g2g to bed, i'll check in tomorrow
<ali1234> and cpufreq crashes with null pointer (maybe because it can't access the CPU properly in virtualbox though - i uninstalled it so it wouldn't cause problems anyway)
<ali1234> hmm maybe it is because something i did while messing around with that gtk2 indicator bug
<ali1234> yes. duh
<ali1234> ok it works in virtualbox
<skellat> knome jjfrv8 -- A merge proposal for you to sign off on: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/186181
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-18
<andrzejr> ali1234, that you can trigger that infinite event loop if you add two sound-indicators to the panel (in two separate indicator plugins)
<andrzejr> seems not related to virtualbox - single indicator works fine here
<ali1234> hmm yes i see it
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> i bet i know what this is
<ali1234> like i mentioned before, in unity the notifications are not shown if you change the volume using mouse wheel
<ali1234> if you have two sound indicators then they have to stay in sync
<ali1234> to you update one, it sends the notification, and then the other one syncs and sends it's own notification
<ali1234> and so the synchronization coode is bouncing back and forth between them
<ali1234> the loop isn't actually infinite
<ali1234> but it does spam lots of notifications
<ali1234> this bug probably affects unity too but you don't see it because the notifications aren't shown
<ali1234> in any case, i bet it's something like that
<ali1234> the notification crash is probably caused just by a random unrelated bug in the notifyd
<ali1234> sometimes it crashes randomly so spamming lots of events probablyjust makes that happen faster
<micahg> skellat: bluesabre: I don't think the keyboard shortcuts needs an FFe and UIF and doc string freeze are thursday, I plan on just uploading assuming I tonightfind the time 
<andrzejr> ali1234, at least I could find the place where it crashes
<ali1234> spamming notifications does some... interesting things
<ali1234> seems to be related to whether you have the mouse over a notification
<andrzejr> ali1234, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10356
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10356 in general "Crash" [Major,New]
<ali1234> hmm... note that the volume notification doesn't actually create multiple bubbles like normal messages
<ali1234> so it's actually updating an existing bubble
<ali1234> or something
<ali1234> i do wonder how it does that
<ali1234> hmm so this is a race condition where the update event starts happening and then the window stops existing before it completes?
<andrzejr> ali1234, yes, it looks like that. But adding proper synchronization may be difficult if feasible. Checking the arguments should be enough.
<andrzejr> that event flooding is IMHO caused by the indicator(s), that's where it should be fixed.
<andrzejr> BTW, can't test it now but does this also happen with gtk2 indicator-plugin?
<andrzejr> 'night
<ali1234> gtk2 indicator plugin is fully 100% broken...
<bluesabre> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1226921
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1226921 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please update lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6.0 to 1.6.1 on saucy" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> let me know if you need anything else
<bluesabre> heading to bed, be back early in the morning
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, fyi ^
<elfy> ochosi ali1234 - trying to do this again - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators - asking for garcon-gtk2-1; the only garcon packages I can find I have installed 
<ochosi> elfy: where are you now?
<ochosi> i mean where in the process
<ochosi> maybe we should add numbers to the steps, so it's easier to communicate
<elfy>  ./autogen.sh --enable-gtk3 --prefix=/usr in xfce4-panel
<ochosi> you're on saucy, right?
<elfy> yep - just editing the wiki :)
<ochosi> (with all updates installed)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> including the lightdm one 
<ochosi> you did install the build-dep for the panel, right?
<elfy> yep - followed the steps :)
<ochosi> and you switched to the wrapper3 branch successfully?
<ochosi> after git cloning
<elfy> oh - didn't cd to there 
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> was following the wiki :)
<elfy> run out of time now - will look again later - and also look at numbering it :)
<ochosi> elfy: ok, added the numbering to the steps
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I'll look at it again when I'm back from work - I assume there should be a cd /wrapper in step 2 then
<elfy> anyway - later :)
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> you don't switch to a git branch like that
<ochosi> if you're in the right dir, the "git checkout..." switches to the branch
<elfy> ok
<elfy> ochosi: all done - really off now - cya later :)
<ochosi> so it worked?
<ochosi> ok, seeya :)
<knome> 
<knome> hum
<Noskcaj>  
<bluesabre>  
<Noskcaj> mr_pouit, Do you think it would be worth merging xfce4-systemload-plugin for saucy?
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.png
<knome> with real baseline
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> btw, why is the ubqiquity bug in status.ubuntu shown twice?
<knome> two different packages are affected?
<ochosi> it has been added to 100papercuts
<knome> ubiquity and lubuntu-artwork (which is probably invalid)
<knome> that's not the reason, but cool :)
<knome> marked it as invalid for lubuntu-artwork, because it really isn't an -artwork bug
<ochosi> would be interesting to know whether it really affects lubuntu/openbox too
<knome> that
<knome> meh
<knome> that's been confirmed for lubuntu
<knome> but it still ain't an -artwork bug :)
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> i'll see whether my patch-suggestion in the bugreport actually works
<knome> (well at least judging from the bug)
<ochosi> oh noes, python
<knome> haha
<knome> :)
<ochosi>  /o\
<knome> lderan likes python
<knome> just saying...
<lderan> python?
<lderan> yes i do
<lderan> ochosi: if you need any help let me know :D
<knome> lderan, bug 1177116
<ubottu> bug 1177116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "maximise button does nothing in Ubiquity" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
<ochosi> guess i need to find out how to do this in python: http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-type-hint
<bluesabre> super easy in python
<bluesabre> window.set_type_hint
<ochosi> yeah, i've found that now
<knome> too hard
<knome> :>
<ochosi> just have to learn to read the code of ubiquity
<bluesabre> but this is only a problem with xfwm, so that type hint is probably already set
<knome> what about lubuntu?
<knome> the same bug appears there
<knome> maybe i should run lubuntu on a vbox once
<bluesabre> ah, didn't know they were affected
<ochosi> bluesabre: it's only set in keyboard_query.py
<bluesabre> cool, be nice to see that buglet fixed then
<ochosi> also have to find a way to test ubiquity
<bluesabre> isnt there a test mode that we use to see the slideshow?
<knome> yep... but that doesn't test ubiquity the software
<knome> it only tests the slideshow itself
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> Unit193 could probably give a hint as to how to roll a custom iso
<knome> yep
<knome> he's done that a few times altogether
<knome> downloading the lubuntu ISO just for fun
<knome> let's see what it has eaten.
<bluesabre> probably some fruits, veggies, and openboxes
<knome> doesn't it use lxde?
<bluesabre> yup
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> lxde is not a complete de though, i think it uses openbox for the wm
<knome> ok
<knome> don't know enough of that
<bluesabre> back from my early days of distro hopping, when I determined lubuntu was ugly and stuck with xubuntu :)
<knome> woo
<lderan> \o/
 * ochosi is happy that everyone can now see how important good artwork is
<knome> "at least we did something right" ;)
<ochosi> it seems that ubiquity sets its window-type to dialog
<knome> ok, i need to prepare a poster for printing
<knome> will be more or less idle for a moment
<ochosi> and as you can see here, xfwm4 always shows a maximize button in dialogs: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09182013-125423pm.php
<ochosi> (i mean a non-functional one!)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> so it's actually a bug in xfwm4
<bluesabre> yay
<ochosi> as well as i know xfwm4, i'm pretty sure it's a design decision, not a bug
<ochosi> not sure why it was taken that way though
<bluesabre> seems like a flaw
<bluesabre> want to bug olivier about it, that seems pretty dumb
<knome> any other window type that would do?
<bluesabre> any other window type, maximize would only appear if resizing/maximizing were enabled on that window
<bluesabre> or should
<bluesabre> I'll throw together a basic window where those are the case and see what xfwm does
<ochosi> olivier hasn't been around in ages
<ochosi> i think if you wanna fix this, we have to write the patch ourselves and propose it to nick
<bluesabre> shouldn't be too hard I would hope
<bluesabre> probably find the relevant code in metacity
<bluesabre> brb
<bluesabre> back
<bluesabre> everyone who's around, come cheer for me in #xubuntu-devel in ~30ish minutes to get my ubuntu-membership :)
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> I mean #ubuntu-meeting
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> lol :)
 * lderan prepares to cheer
<lderan> woo \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> ochosi: just a quick point - I assume that at some point this new gtk3 stuff won't look out of place - ie it follows the rest of the panel style ? - http://imagebin.org/271259
<ochosi> elfy: yes, the git-version of greybird already carries a fix for that
<ochosi> elfy: all other themes would be patched accordingly
<elfy> ok - just checking :)
<bluesabre> theres a shimmerproject daily ppa: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
<ochosi> true that :)
<elfy> not that concerned - I'll wait for patches to come through properly
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> elfy: nice to see you got the gtk3 indicators working thouh
<ochosi> gh
<elfy> when I installed it all this morning from git - the sound thingy was a big fail ... 
<elfy> then I remembered to go and unfix the services and it'd fine now :p
<elfy> #Exec=/usr/lib/indicator-sound-gtk2/indicator-sound-service
<ochosi> :)
<jjfrv8> knome, I'm pulling skellat's merge now. I hope to have another MP for you by 1600 today and that should be the final one.
<knome> jjfrv8, cool, thanks
<knome> there we go, bluesabre is now a ubuntu member
 * bluesabre dances
<bluesabre> now to work towards xubuntu-developer-membership
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> gotta go start working now, bbl
<knome> have fun
<knome> at some point, could somebody have a stab at making sure the documentation is nearly ready for a new upload (we still need to update some bits)
<knome> and be prepared for filing a sponsorship queue bug
<knome> ok, i'm off to to shopping groceries
<knome> bbl
<lderan> cheerio
<jjfrv8> knome, MP is up there and ready for you. I don't know why it's complaining about the two text conflicts. I can't find the problem when I look at the files with Meld.
<jjfrv8> knome, also, I don't know if I handled lp bug 1225782 the way you wanted. I took a stab at it but tell me if I'm off base.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1225782 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Document how to enable hibernation" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225782
<knome> jjfrv8, i'll check them out. cheers :)
 * ochosi pokes around again wrt logout-delay
<ochosi> for all those concerned with the logout-delay bug, feel free to confirm here: bug #1227212
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<ochosi> i've talked to slangasek about this issue and this is the only thing we could come up with for now (a bugreport)
<knome> what was steve's reply/take on it?
<ochosi> that he isn't sure either what could be causing this
<ochosi> and that for debugging it, the session would have to be looked at "from the outside" while shutting down
<ochosi> but he kinda confirmed my idea that something isn't shutting down properly
<ochosi> which is why it's reported against upstart
<ochosi> might be logind, might be something else
<knome> so what would be "from the outside"?
<ochosi> slangasek$ debugging this probably involves either taking snapshots of the process state from  outside the login session and seeing what's running when, or putting debug "echo"s  in each of the upstart jobs
<ochosi> both is kinda outa my league for now
<ochosi> so i hope more able people take to it
<knome> maybe cjwatson could be able to help?
<ochosi> maybe, i dunno him
<knome> just join -release and ask
<ochosi> i was just pointed to slangasek by robert_ancell
<knome> he was around 1mins earlier
<ochosi> i'm already in release
<knome> ok, then just ask there
<ochosi> what, i'm not
<knome> heh
<ochosi> just -desktop and -devel
<ochosi> and -meeting
<knome> bah :)
<ochosi> meh, too many chans
<knome> is -desktop useful at all?
<knome> major things seem to hit -release anyway
<ochosi> yeah, it's not bad
<knome> heh, i wasn't thinking of pinging, just telling your issue and shouting "anyone?"
<knome> :D
<knome> but that works, i guess...
<ochosi> well, you pointed me to him ;)
<ochosi> thing is, i've tried that a few times, just saying stuff
<ochosi> pinging is much more effective
<knome> (not sure if he's the right person to ask either, but i guess he could know about that)
<ochosi> if you know who to ping
<knome> sure, if you know the right-right person
<knome> exactly
<ochosi> well making more people that could be right aware is also not a bad idea
<knome> can't disagree
<ochosi> ok, i've pinged enough buntu-devs for today
<knome> ha
<knome> never enough ;)
<knome> i'm off
<knome> bbl today
<jjfrv8> knome, i'll be afk until around 2100, in case you need me to fix anything.
<knome> jjfrv8, right
<knome> i'll be here for the moment i'll check those
<knome> thanks for reminding
<jjfrv8> cya
<knome> but yeah, i'll be in touch (or i'll just fix them)
<knome> have fun!
<knome> jjfrv8, all looks good. i'll go through the merging now
<knome> jjfrv8, merged/pushed
<elfy> ochosi: thanks for the long looooooooooooooogoooooooooout bug - me too'd it 
<brainwash> almost unbelievable, that nobody was able to properly debug this logout delay
<brainwash> where are the people with the magical debugging skills? :)
 * lderan hides
<ali1234> it doesn't affect me, or else i would try
<skellat> knome: LP Bug #122725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 122725 in zabbix (Ubuntu) "wrong permission" [Medium,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122725
<skellat> Wrong bug
<skellat> knome: LP Bug #1227275
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1227275 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "[Sponsored Upload] Please update xubuntu-docs to 13.10 for saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227275
<micahg> sorry, I'm rushing to finish some stuff, I don't think I'll get to that today
<micahg> if it misses tomorrow, just let the translations team know about it and I'll upload over the weekend
<micahg> ochosi: I'm sorry, I'll get your thing in for beta 2 (I assume our docs already reflect the proper gmb usage if any)?
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, no new functionality, just bugfix, so it's fine
<ochosi> ali1234: surprising, so far it affected pretty much anyone
<ochosi> brainwash: ppl are busy with mobile and mir
<brainwash> and unity 8.. or "does mobile and mir" already include unity 8? :)
<brainwash> misplaced "
<ali1234> ochosi: bootchart might help
<ochosi> thought that was only to chart the boot-process?
<ochosi> does it also chart the session stuff?
<knome> micahg, i'm asking what's happening with ubuntu docs, let's see if somebody could handle our docs upload as well
<ali1234> ochosi: it logs everything up until "bootchart-stop is run"
<ali1234> i'll have a look at exactly how it works
<ochosi> is that something you have to run manually? i'd have expected it stops as soon as the session is loaded
<ali1234> normally it runs automatically
<ochosi> btw, are you on saucy with all updates?
<ali1234> but you can always disable it
<micahg> knome: the main issue with the docs is doc string freeze, so if you can get someone to upload, great, otherwise, just ask them if they mind the upload happening over the weekend
<knome> micahg, yes, i know
<ochosi> ali1234: so logout is super-fast for (as in: normal-fast, ~1sec)
<ali1234> 1 second? no, i've never seen ubuntu log out that fast in 5 years
<ochosi> ali1234: i missed a "you" there. my connection is shaky again :/
<ali1234> it takes about 10 seconds
<ochosi> xubuntu always used to logout really fast
<ochosi> yeah, that's the bug then
<ali1234> but it's always taken 10 seconds...
<ochosi> not here
<ochosi> never took 10secs with the session slowly deconstructing itself
<ali1234> what's that?
<ochosi> (first the panel, then the wallpaper, then the compositor, then plank)
<ali1234> i just get a black screen for 10 seconds
<brainwash> yep, used to be almost instant
<ochosi> i can really see things disappearing bit by bit
<ali1234> press logout -> instant black screen -> 10 seconds -> login menu
<knome> bkerensa will get our docs stuff uploaded
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> nice knome 
<ochosi> that's already the second pkg today that someone else uploads for us
<knome> yep
<knome> are there others we need uploaded?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> well gmusicbrowser, but it's not "ready" (as in: debdiff ready)
<brainwash> ochosi: did you notice that xfce4-indicator-plugin and occasionally nm-applet are triggering kernel traps?
<ochosi> it shouldn't be hard though
<knome> is that something you could do?
<ochosi> i'm not sure, i've never done it before and i fear i might have to do other stuff tonight (upgrade mediawiki installation etc)
<brainwash> ochosi: on shutdown I mean, and/or logout
<ochosi> ppl who've done packaging before should be able to
<knome> like bluesabre you mean?
<ochosi> brainwash: no, never noticed, but i don't use that version of the indicator-plugin anymore, i use the gtk3 version
<ochosi> knome: or like Unit193 or Noskcaj
<brainwash> ochosi: feeling so outdated now
<ochosi> hehe, sorry ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: I didn't do it!
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i think you'd be *the man* to do some packaging for your favorite software! 
<knome> hehe
<ali1234> bootchart is broken, great
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> well there goes that
<knome> bootchart? that ain't essential though
<brainwash> oh great, bug #1226544
<ubottu> bug 1226544 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm --test-mode fails immediately" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226544
<brainwash> just wanted to do some testing :)
<Unit193> ochosi: I did a quick job at it the day before yesterday, but libxfce4ui wasn't playing nice so I nuked everything. ;P
<ochosi> Unit193: wait, you're referring to the gtk3 indicators?
<Unit193> ochosi: Technically yes, but actually the indicator plugin.
<ochosi> Unit193: well i was hoping you could do some packaging for gmusicbrowser :}
<Unit193> Hah.
<ochosi> yeah, i know, right? :)
<ochosi> it'd be simple, just create a debdiff from a tiny patch
<ochosi> then knome (with his amazing connections) might get it uploaded
<ochosi> and micahg would have one thing less on his plate
<ochosi> Unit193: your silence is to be taken as a "yes"?
<Unit193> Ah, slightly distracted, and no idea what's going on with gmb.
<ochosi> Unit193: it's this bug: #1223808
<ubottu> bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223808
<ochosi> basically add a line to the gmbrc.default file and then replace the existing albuminfo.pm with the one from upstream git and add that to the changelog (i assume)
<ochosi> and debdiffing
<ochosi> lotsa things i don't really know much about
<ali1234> i think i've got bootchart working
<Unit193> Hrm.
<ochosi> ali1234: but does it do what we want it to?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you can increase the delay before it stops
<ali1234> edit /etc/init/bootchart.conf
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-2.png
<ali1234> it looks like the culprit is.... xscreensaver
<ochosi> woot?
<brainwash> that wouldn't explain the delay on my system, I removed xscreensaver
<ali1234> or gnome-keyring-d
<ochosi> but we're the only ones using xscreensaver
<ali1234> i'll start ripping out packages and see what happens
<ochosi> ali1234: cool, thanks a lot!
<elfy> ochosi: "(first the panel, then the wallpaper, then the compositor, then plank)" "i can really see things disappearing bit by bit"
<elfy> I've seen that since I started using Xubuntu 11.04 ish time 
<ochosi> right, but i haven't
<ochosi> i have maybe not the fastest cpu, but an ssd and enough ram
<elfy> didn't realise that was what you were saying the other day
<ochosi> so things are usually really snappy
<ochosi> well it never took that long to logout
<ochosi> even if this kind of deconstruction happened, i didn't see it because it was happening very quickly
<elfy> ochosi: you 'might' remember me saying a cycle or two ago that everything looked a bit win95ish when I logged out - this is that 
<ali1234> that's due to the setting daemon closing before other things
<ali1234> makes the theme go to default, which looks like win95
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> that used to be a bug on gnome too
<elfy> then it's the same now as it ever has been here :)
<ochosi> a more controlled session shutdown would be nice
<ochosi> elfy: so it was always that slow?
<brainwash> ochosi: uhm, the restart entry is still missing after the first logout
<elfy> ochosi: more or less, hard to be exact 
<ochosi> brainwash: that's always missing, it seems to be a bug in lightdm
<ochosi> brainwash: haven't had time to take care of that yet
<brainwash> but not after booting the pc
<elfy> ochosi: but it's never been particularly snappy for me here - shutdown is similar for me here
<ochosi> elfy: shutdown and reboot are really snappy, as they used to be (at least as far as closing the session goes)
<elfy> Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU G870 @ 3.10GHz / 4Gb RAM
<brainwash> ochosi: and while testing logout, could you please right click the password input field?
<ochosi> i immediately get thrown at a VT
<ochosi> brainwash: hummyeah, we have to disable that in the UI
<ochosi> brainwash: probably won't happen in 13.10, unless someone does another bugfix upload
<brainwash> oh, because it's visually broken or for some other reason?
<ochosi> brainwash: could you report a bug about it and subscribe bluesabre and me to it?
<ochosi> brainwash: well it's really not needed there
<ochosi> against lightdm-gtk-greeter
<brainwash> ok, I'll create a report later
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> ty
<brainwash> and should I report the missing restart entry too? 
<brainwash> oh wait, maybe it's still missing because I haven't restarted lightdm after the greeter update yet
<ochosi> no, it's a known issue too
<ochosi> the missing restart entry i mean
<ochosi> i reported it yesterday or a few days ago
<brainwash> but it goes missing after the first logout
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> ok :)
<elfy> restart entry missing where?
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-3.png goota be gnome-keyring
<ochosi> elfy: in the menu of the greeter
<brainwash> elfy: when clicking the shutdown indicator displayed by lightdm-gtk-greeter
<elfy> aah ok 
<elfy> <ochosi> brainwash: well it's really not needed there
<elfy> I'd disagree with that - I wanted it earlier this evening :)
<elfy> unless that's something else
<brainwash> the context menu for the password input field?
<elfy> I just woke up - reading backlog or trying to
<elfy> brainwash: obviously something else then :)
<brainwash> the restart entry is needed
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> yep
<ali1234> hmm... not gnome-keyring
<elfy> brainwash: I never understood why it's not a default action in action buttons either
<elfy> easy enough to add it
<brainwash> well, all I can find is, that the kernel traps an exception caused by xfce4-indicator and 7 seconds later one caused by nm-applet
<knome> elfy, woke up? get a grip man, you waking up at nine at the evening? :P
<elfy> knome: catnaps ftw
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i was referring to the context-menu, not the restart button
<ochosi> ali1234: you removed it and it's still slow?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> something is just sleeping for 5 or 10 seconds for no reason
<ali1234> there's no high cpu usage so it isn't polling
<ochosi> weird
<elfy> another bootchart any help?
<ochosi> i was wondering whether it's some kind of conflict between logind and consolekit
<ochosi> (or whatever logind replaced exactly)
<brainwash> I removed ck
<ali1234> the only three processes that persist for the full 12 seconds are Xorg, lightdm, and init
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-4.png
<ali1234> if you want to make these bootcharts, install it and edit /etc/init/bootchart.conf find the place where it sleeps and increase it to 200 or 300 seconds so you have enough time to log in and out a couple of times
<ali1234> the comment says "sleep 45 seconds to capture desktop login" - but we want the logout too
<ochosi> so it might after all be a bug in lightdm...
<ochosi> btw, could you add this information incl the bootchart to the bugreport?
<ali1234> sure
<ochosi> bug #1227212
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<ochosi> thanks!
<elfy> ali1234: this line? [ "$UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS" = "stopped" ] && sleep 45
<ali1234> yes
<knome> ochosi, what do you want to do with bug 1177116?
<ubottu> bug 1177116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "maximise button does nothing in Ubiquity" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
<ochosi> knome: reassign it to xfwm4
<ochosi> it's not a bug in ubiquity as far as i can say now
<knome> ochosi, from ubiquity?
<ochosi> and for 13.10 we have to let it go i guess
<knome> oki
<knome> should i assign it to you or sean?
<elfy> biab
<ochosi> knome: not sure, sean said he'd do some tests
<knome> the title better now?
<ochosi> i dont think there has to be an assignee for now
<knome> bug 1177116
<ubottu> bug 1177116 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Xfwm4's 'dialog' window has an unused maximise-button" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> maybe there's even a bug in bugzilla
<ochosi> haven't looked yet
<knome> i quickly searched, couldn't find anything
<ali1234> it's interesting that a bunch of progams last for 6 seconds before exiting and then it takes a further 6 seconds after that for everything to stop
<ochosi> you also have to look through closed bugreports i guess
<andrzejr> Guys, any chance of fixing bug 1076291?
<ubottu> bug 1076291 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "workspace switcher orientation problem in deskbar mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076291
<knome> fff
<ochosi> knome: the way i know olivier, he'd have set it to wontfix
<ali1234> is upstart doing SIGQUIT && sleep 1 && sleep 5 && SIGKILL && sleep 1 && sleep 5 && SIGTERM?
<knome> ochosi, that makes sense.
<ochosi> ali1234: hehe, add that question to the bugreport! :D
<ali1234> ochosi: ain't nobody going to read that :P
<brainwash> can upstart be disabled for the user session?
<ochosi> andrzejr: so that basically just needs a new version of libwnck?
<ochosi> hmpf, version 2.30.7 here
<ochosi> i guess ubuntu folks don't need that lib anymore, so they don't update it
<knome> ochosi, no, i don't think there is a bug for that
<ochosi> andrzejr: have you checked who the debian/ubuntu maintainer of libwnck22 is?
<andrzejr> ochosi, yes.
<ochosi> knome: then we should submit one upstream
<knome> and (s)he is...?
<andrzejr> (yes, new version needed)
<knome> ochosi, thanks for volunteering!
<knome> ;)
<elfy> ali1234: http://imagebin.org/271304 that any good? if it's not I'll get another one in the morning 
<ochosi> knome: haha, you're already there!
<ochosi> knome: currently dealing with 2 more issues at once
<knome> i'm going to bed ASAP
<knome> i can do that *later*, if we're not really targeting 13.10 anyway
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i think we're nt
<knome> ok, unlinked from saucy blueprints
<ochosi> ty
<ali1234> elfy: you didn't sleep long enough so it didn't catch the full log out
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> [ "$UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS" = "stopped" ] && sleep 300
<ali1234> you didn't save or something
<ali1234> or that's an old chart
<ochosi> or you didn't log out?
<elfy> I installed it 5 minutes ago - it's the only chart :)
<ali1234> yeah
<elfy> I rebooted ochosi 
<knome> i'll be around tomorrow until 13UTC'ish, then later in the evening
<knome> maybe like 19UTC->
<ali1234> well the chart doesn't appear until after the 300 seconds + boot time
<ochosi> elfy: that's different, i don't have the bug with rebooting
<ochosi> so the idea is, reboot -> session is loaded -> logout
<ochosi> then re-login and get the bootchart
<elfy> ochosi: ok - I installed it, changed the conf, restarted - then logged out and logged in 3 times
<ochosi> (if i'm not mistaken)
<ochosi> oh
<elfy> then eventually the bootchart showed up - about 5 minutes I'd guess 
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, the chart only shows 60 seconds. i don't know why
<elfy> mmm
<ali1234> oh hang on
<elfy> need to reset bootchart or something after fiddling with the conf file maybe? 
<elfy> reconfigure it?
<ali1234> no, just reboot
<ali1234> hmm, no, i don';t know
<elfy> then I've no idea why it only shows 1 minute
<ochosi> andrzejr: 2.31 hasn't landed in debian unstable yet, i guess that's the explanation
<elfy> I'll restart and logout/in a couple of times again
<ali1234> it probably won't show anything different anyway
<ochosi> andrzejr: same version in testing, and not at all in experimental
<ochosi> andrzejr: so i'd get in touch with the debian maintainer and ask them for a version bump, then ubuntu will automatically sync in the new version as far as i understand
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> good night everybody, and thanks for working to make xubuntu better :)
<knome> ->
<ochosi> knome: night!
<andrzejr> ochosi, thanks. I'll try that.
<ochosi> andrzejr: sorry not to be able to offer anything better :/
<ochosi> but at least the chances are good that if you contact debian, the fix will land in 14.04, which - after all - is an LTS release
<ali1234> ok, here's something. there's that sh/sleep that runs for 60 seconds when you login
 * knome facepalms
<ali1234> if i wait for that to finish before logging out, logout is much faster
<knome> good thing my desktop keeps some noise
<knome> would have left it on for all night otherwise
<knome> ... ->
<ochosi> ali1234: seriously? what's that sleep for?
<ali1234> dunno
<ali1234> something in the session
<ochosi> very odd
<ali1234> it only makes a tiny difference
<ali1234> let's kill it anyway
<andrzejr> ochosi, yay, that will be second anniversary of me fixing that bug! ;-)
<ochosi> andrzejr: haha, sorry!!! :D
<ali1234> where are the session startup files?
<ochosi> log-files or startup-files?
<ali1234> startup files
<ochosi> hm, not /etc/init.d/ i suppose
<ochosi> i've never really dealt with upstart tbh
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> session startup
<ochosi> even the whole concept of upstart-xsessions is pretty new to me
<ali1234> init/failsafe.conf:	sleep 59
<ali1234> hmm..............
<ali1234> hmm...
<ochosi> /usr/share/upstart/sessions maybe?
<ali1234> rc5.d/S99ondemand:	sleep 60 # probably enough time for desktop login
<ali1234> sessions/logrotate.conf:[ -n "$UPSTART_EVENTS" ] && sleep 60 && exit 0
<ochosi> is that from the switch from using ~/.xsession-errors to upstart-sessions?
<ali1234> no idea, i'm just grepping everything
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so that's for rotating the upstart-logs
<ali1234> grep -sR sleep\ [1-9][0-9] *
<elfy> ali1234: http://imagebin.org/271305 that's 1:45 - I guess it's only actually catching the reboot/logouts/logins - which is about as long as it took to do that a few times
<ochosi> which previously wasn't there because xsession-errors was only there for one session iirc
<ali1234> there are few 60 second sleeps... it has to be one
<ali1234> elfy: yeah that looks just like mine
<elfy> ok
<elfy> if nothing else it confirms we're seeing the same thing
<ochosi> # Don't wait to avoid blocking the session from ending.
<ali1234> hahaha
<ochosi> /usr/share/upstart/sessions/startxfce4.conf
<ali1234> these two things... they are the same thing
<ochosi> that's really there ^
<ali1234> the reason elfy's bootchart cut off is because that shell script that waits 60 seconds... orders bootchart to stop
<ochosi> oh
<ali1234> or at least... something does
<ali1234> well, the only 60 second sleep is the logrotate one
<ochosi> in startxfce4.conf there is a pre-stop and a post-stop command
<ochosi> i'm wondering what happens if i skip the pre-stop and directly call the post-stop dbus-call
<ochosi> brb
<brainwash> guess what, not running the xubuntu session inside an upstart user session did the trick -> instant logout
<brainwash>  /etc/upstart-xsessions
<ochosi> you mean you just kicked xubuntu out of the upstart-xsessions?
<brainwash> uhm, yes
<ochosi> good thinking
<ochosi> now at least we have the culprit
<ochosi> brainwash: feel free to add that to the bugreport
<brainwash> only did one logout so far, hopefully it wasn't just a lucky one
<ochosi> ok, i'll test too
<ali1234> brainwash: can you explain that in more detail?
<ali1234> huh... so what runs it if you remove it from the list?
<ochosi> brb
<brainwash> open /etc/upstart-xsessions and comment out the xubuntu line
<brainwash> it improves the logout speed
<ochosi> i can confirm that, brainwash 
<elfy> so can I
<brainwash> according to my tests (1 logout so far)
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> elfy: so it *did* log out faster than it used to for you? :)
<elfy> I also get immediate logins - rather than the slow one
<ochosi> yeah, everything seems a bit snappier
<elfy> ochosi: must have done :)
<ochosi> we should probably just opt-out of upstart-user-sessions for 13.10 :]
<brainwash> stupid upstart, always so annoying
<brainwash> and it gets more bloated with every release
<brainwash> feel free to add this info to the bug report, doesn't have to be me
<ochosi> well you found out about it, you deserve to rant about upstart
<ali1234> i bet there's no documentation at all for this is there?
<ochosi> i would assume not
<ochosi> because no-one outside ubuntu uses upstart
<ali1234> i'm going to have to grep for whatever piece of software reads the session list and then read the source code to see what it does differently
<ochosi> so why should there be docs
<brainwash> there is
<ochosi> oh?
<brainwash> for the upstart user session
<Noskcaj> Does anyone have any complaints with me making a sync bug for tumbler? The changelog is at http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/t/tumbler/unstable_changelog
 * ochosi loves to be proven wrong on the existance of docs
<brainwash> well, let me find it
<elfy> ochosi: surprised or cynical? or both :)
<ochosi> elfy: surprised! (and a bit cynical, true ;))
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> xfce4-cpufreq-plugin might also be worth syncing, but probably needs an FFe. http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/unstable_changelog
<ochosi> Noskcaj: no, sync bugs are good i suppose. don't see any reason why we wouldn't want to sync new versions
<ali1234> X11/Xsession.d/00upstart:if grep -q "^$DESKTOP_SESSION\$" /etc/upstart-xsessions; then
<ali1234> now what the heck is BASESESSIONS?
<brainwash> oh, actually not in the mood to study the upstart cook book... lets just ask the author of upstart, james hunt :)
<ochosi> is he around? (as in on irc now)
<brainwash> lets head over to #upstart
<brainwash> and start a riot
<ochosi> hehe
<ali1234> pitchforks ready
<ochosi> we should all join at once ;)
 * ochosi vaguely remembers a riot like that in #xubuntu-devel once
<elfy> I've subscribed the xubuntu bug team to 1227212
<elfy> brainwash: you going to comment or you want me to?
<ochosi> elfy: good
<pleia2> ochosi: it's ongoing
<ochosi> pleia2: haha, nice one
<brainwash> elfy: yes, you can a comment
<elfy> pleia2: I don't argue with you in here :p
<pleia2> hehe :)
<ochosi> pleia2: it was some funny trolly list, i just can't remember it (not craigslist...)
<ali1234> not sounder?
<ochosi> hmno
<ochosi> knome would probably remember
<ochosi> it was about his xubuntu logo design :)
<pleia2> the decapitated mouse?
<pleia2> that was funny
<pleia2> it's not decapitated, it's disembodied
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> exactly that
<elfy> oh dear - I missed that then :)
<ochosi> pleia2: do you remember where the shitstorm came from?
<pleia2> nope
 * drc wonders if it was ##disney? :)
<ochosi> hehe, i'm checking some logs, but can't seem to find it
<elfy> well if you find it let me know or let forestpiskie know - but I'm off for a proper sleep now :)
<elfy> thanks for digging at this logout speed thing that I never noticed because I rarely logout :p
<ali1234> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/FoundationsTeam/Specs/RaringUpstartUserSessions
<ali1234> there might be some useful info in that
<ali1234> "gnome-session will stop clients that support XSMP / D-Bus session management by giving them up to 10 seconds to shutdown. "
<skellat> Noskcaj: I'm objecting on both sync bugs for Docs
<Noskcaj> skellat, ok
<skellat> Noskcaj: Unless it is a minimal change, lets leave it be for now
<Noskcaj> skellat, tumbler is just allowing video thumbnails to work. I'll leave cpufreq then
<skellat> Noskcaj: That's a major User Interface change at this point.  When did the new code land in Unstable?
<ochosi> hah, found it
<skellat> Is Debian Bug #723189 that worrisome that we need to slam something in that's been in Unstable for barely a day?
<ubottu> Debian bug 723189 in tumbler-common "tumbler-common: tumbler does not create video thumbnails anymore" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/723189
<ochosi> forestpiskie: it was here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/19/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<ochosi> (and anyone else interested in the uncalled-for 4chan raid :D)
<ochosi> good times
<Unit193> Heh, was just going to say too.
<Noskcaj> skellat, no, but it's a minor change and something that would be nice to have in saucy. 
<Noskcaj> I see your point though
<skellat> Let it marinate a little
<ochosi> is that version the same as in one of our xubuntu-dev PPAs?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ^
<Noskcaj> ochosi, i doubt it, it was a patch that corsac added to debian two days ago
<ali1234> hmm i am confused. i don't see how gnome-session is involved, but it must be
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> we don't even use gnome-session
<brainwash> "No such key 'auto-launch' in schema 'com.ubuntu.update-notifier' as specified in override file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/20_xubuntu-default-settings.gschema.override'; ignoring override for this key."
<brainwash> ^ no bug report for this one yet?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, i got that as well
<brainwash> couldn't find a report for this one, so I'll create one later
<brainwash> because it's time to get rid of all these little bugs, isn't it? :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yep
<ali1234> hmmmm, getting somewhere
<ali1234> Session ending could take at worst:   ( max_initial_delay + max_kill_timeout_new ) - Worst case scenario will likely be a wait of (5Â +Â 5) seconds.
<ochosi> ali1234: where did you quote that from?
<ali1234> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/FoundationsTeam/Specs/RaringUpstartUserSessions
<ali1234> so it looks like this really is caused by all those processes that don't die after the initial 5 second delay
<ochosi> ali1234: hm, that still doesn't answer how it could be fixed in upstartusersessions
<ali1234> not yet, no
<ali1234> but it is getting there
<bluesabre> finally caught up
<bluesabre> omg the logo discussion
<ali1234> hurhurhur
<ali1234> so here's the problem
<ali1234> what that spec says about "average case" is simply nonsense
<ali1234> max_kill_timeout can never be less than 5 seconds, because that is the default, and it takes max(default, job)
<ochosi> skellat: slangasek is already subscribed and i talked to him *prior* to filing that bugreport
<ali1234> ochosi: upstart source init/quiesce.c is where the loop is where it is getting stuck waiting for something
<ali1234> somewhere there should be a log full of stuff like nih_warn ("job %s failed to stop", name);
<ochosi> ali1234: what a befitting name for the place to hang quietly...
<brainwash> running upstart with --verbose could help
<brainwash> unless the warnings get logged by default
<brainwash> somewhere
<ali1234> i grepped, got nothing
<ali1234> oh hang on
<brainwash> grepped what?
<ali1234> ~/.cache/upstart/*
<ali1234> ~
<ali1234> and /var/log
<brainwash> with sudo?
<ali1234> no. this is a user session
<brainwash> some log files in /var/log aren't readable by the normal user
<brainwash> does upstart log any upstart related suff in ~/.cache/upstart?
<ali1234> yes, loads
<ali1234> but nothing about "job failed to start"
<ali1234> *stop
<ochosi> partly why i was a bit overwhelmed with skimming those logs...
<brainwash> ali1234: so you've studied the upstart user session (the edubuntu wiki article), any benefits for the normal/average user?
<ali1234> edubuntu wiki is really the ubuntu wiki btw
<ali1234> yeah, the benefit is that session services can say "give me x seconds to shut down before killing me"
<ali1234> but the problem is this mechanism isn't implemented properly and so there is always a 5 second delay, and then another 5 second delay
<ochosi> please don't forget to add that to the bugreport :p
<brainwash> currently I'm trying to slim down my system and get rid of all the bloat I don't need
<brainwash> not sure about lightdm yet :)
<brainwash> but I want to try and create a very basic greeter
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter is pretty light
<bluesabre> but maybe you want xdm?
<ochosi> or slim
<ochosi> nomen est omen
<brainwash> guess I'll compile slim with systemd/logind support
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you already update the gtk2 greeter packages?
<bluesabre> haven't had a chance to yet
<brainwash> actually I don't mind using the gtk2 greeter, so I could keep lightdm
<brainwash> what a bummer, the gdm packages wants to pull almost the entire gnome shell
<bluesabre> micahg: if you're available, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1227402
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227402 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please update shimmer-themes to 1.6.2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> and if you need extra files...
<bluesabre> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rbfwdd90upfyv7j/8IbL-lPjE3
<bluesabre> theres all the tarballs for the build
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome ^
<bluesabre> brainwash: just added that change, build should be done within the hour
<brainwash> bluesabre: I'll test it then asap :)
<bluesabre> yup, let me know how it works for you
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<ochosi> same here, night everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-19
<ali1234> hmmm!!!!!!
<ali1234> init: job logrotate failed to stop
<ali1234> that is the only one
<ali1234> it's all starting to fit together
<ali1234> so... let's see what happens if i wait a minute before logging out
<ali1234> yeah... the delay is only 5 seconds if that logrotate is not running
<ali1234> aaaaaaand... fixed
<ali1234> urgh... this code doesn't even actually work
<bluesabre> so... not fixed?
<ali1234> well the delay is fixed
<ali1234> no idea what side effects it would have though
<ali1234> the quiesce code is really silly... it prints a list of "slow" jobs... but it doesn't do it after most of the jobs have stopped
<ali1234> it has a routine that tries to figure out how long to wait, but it returns 5 seconds by default even if there are no jobs to wait for - that's half the problem
<bluesabre> its pretty awesome that you've been able to crack down on this so much
<Unit193> Which?  The lag or the indicators? :P
<bluesabre> well, pretty much everything he's been working on :D
<ali1234> :O
<ali1234> ok the reason it always waits at least 5 seconds?
<ali1234> it doesn't even send the shutdown request until the end of the wait period
<ali1234> that's why there's a different result depending if you log out or shut down
<ali1234> i think the logout bug is invalid, sorry
<ali1234> the 5 second delay exists to catch any jobs that start after upstart told all jobs to stop
<ali1234> it only happens on logout because in all other situations everything is going to get killed anyway
<drc> so it's a feature not a bug...it does exactly what it's supposed to, just not what some people want?
<ali1234> pretty much yes. that's what it looks like anyway
<ali1234> i suspect ochosi found it particularly annoying cos he is logging in/out in under a minute repeatedly to test things
<ali1234> in that case, the logrotate job will cause an extra 5 second delay - but only if you log out less than 1 minute after you logged in
<ali1234> which, let's face it, is not usual user behaviour
 * drc tries to remember the last time ochosi was described as normal....
<ali1234> perhaps the logrotate script can be fixed to that the sleep it does can be interrupted
<drc> and with that thought, off to bed
<skellat> ali1234: How much of a regression do you think will be caused with our proposed simple fix?  Shall I add a comment to the bug that this may be something we end up addressing in Release Notes as a "Known Issue"?  Beta 2 Freeze is tomorrow FWIW.
<ali1234> what fix is that?
<skellat> LP Bug 1227212 where somebody was talking about commenting a line out
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<skellat> Though my memory may be faulty
<ali1234> ah that... well, that means xubuntu does not use upstart to manage the session at all
<ali1234> the thing is though, the 5 second delay is obviously there for a reason
<skellat> Probably to let something gracefully quit
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's to prevent new processes starting after everything is told to quit
<ali1234> at least that's what it looks like
<skellat> Okay
<ali1234> but the bottom line is either they delay is needed, in which case it's better to have it, or it's not needed and it should just be removed from upstart
<skellat> That makes sense 
<skellat> Have we had input from Steve Langasek yet?
<ali1234> no
<skellat> I had a root canal & major filling done today so it has been a Weird Wednesday for me
<skellat> What time zone are you in?
<skellat> As I know Steve Langasek is on the Pacific seaboard of the US so he may or may not still be up
<ali1234> er... BST?
<ali1234> it's 4am here
<skellat> Ah
<skellat> No worries
<ali1234> anyway, the exact cause is pinpointed in my last comment
<skellat> I'm stuck in the middle in Ohio
<ali1234> any upstart dev should be able to confirm that the delay is really there for the reason i speculated
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Well, we'll wait & see what he has to say then.
<skellat> If we don't hear anything we may have to roll such into a Release Notes "Known Issue" for Beta 2.
<ali1234> it's not even an issue
<ali1234> it's only 5 seconds
<ali1234> i think it's expected behaviour really
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> We'll let it marinate then and see what comes of it
<ali1234> anyway, not using upstart means using something totally different with a whole other set of problems, so i wouldn't recommend that at all
<skellat> Yeah, I've been watching the conflagration on the Debian side over systemd.  It hasn't been pretty
<ali1234> bug 1190526
<ubottu> bug 1190526 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init crashed with SIGABRT in nih_discard()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190526
<ali1234> hmm so the whole quiesce stuff was added in a big lump by james hunt in february and nobody else has ever touched it, so you might have to ask him what it's supposed to do
 * Unit193 hopes they don't go systemd.
<skellat> Unit193: That would be calling down death from above on our position
<skellat> ali1234: I suppose so
<skellat> EXCELLENT.  Steve Langasek just chimed in on the bug.
<skellat> Importance shifted to High, Status is Triaged, and now assigned to James Hunt for resolution
<ali1234> fair enough
<skellat> Steve Langasek called it as the expected shutdown procedure is *not* happening in what you've described
<ali1234> it still looks like it is by design, but the design is wrong :P
<ali1234> but who knows
<skellat> The biggest example of the design itself being wrong in the US in cards was the Ford Pinto.  Smack the gas tank of that thing in a collision & the car exploded into flames.  Otherwise it was a drivable car.
<skellat> s/cards/cars/
 * skellat wanders off
<astraljava> Is there anything about the Xubuntu brand that I can see from a terminal?
 * astraljava has forgotten loads of that sorta stuff.
<astraljava> I know about lsb_release, but that only mentions the distribution, not about the flavor.
<knome> astraljava, don't think so
<knome> astraljava, is xubuntu-* installed?
<Unit193> echo $DESKTOP_SESSION ? :P
<Unit193> GDMSESSION too.
<Unit193> XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP for XFCE
<Unit193> knome: Oh, we ignoring OEM until T?
<knome> Unit193, yeah, it doesn't work
<ochosi> ali1234: congrats, you managed to wake the dogs with your debugging, looks like this is actually going to get fixed!
 * knome knocks the wood
<Unit193> or at least looked at.
<knome> ow, that hit my head!
<knome> ;)
<knome> -documentation lacks upload, then it's ready
<knome> -marketing can lag, no release-based
<knome> -qa is ready
<knome> -community can lag, no release-based
<knome> -artwork needs wallpaper and upload, then ready
<knome> -development needs uploads, then ready
<knome> ^ status
<knome> looks like we have made it again
<knome> and only a handful of postponed items
<Unit193> Sadly, several things getting postponed, yep.
<astraljava> knome: I should think so, I installed from a daily a few days ago.
<forestpiskie> ochosi: thanks :)
<astraljava> knome: And what are you doing up at this hour anyway?!
<knome> astraljava, ircing.
<knome> and fixing kitchen table/chairs
<knome> and stuff..
<knome> ;)
<knome> hangin' in the office
<Unit193> astraljava: See above?  Also, head your /etc/apt/sources.list
<knome> Unit193, the good things is that we have a lot of nice things almost prepared for 14.04
<Unit193> Yep.
<knome> Unit193, gtk3 indicators back, menulibre, mugshot, ...
<Unit193> 4.12? ;)
<Unit193> knome: Think he was happy with backports, no?
<knome> maybe, but not likely
<astraljava> Unit193: Okay, one moment, thanks!
<astraljava> Unit193: Ok, thanks again!
<elfy> hi astraljava 
<Unit193> Of course, and howdy!
<elfy> knome: qa would have bee ready ages ago if I'd stopped adding things to it :p
<elfy> s/bee/been
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Hi elfy!
<elfy> shan't make that mistake again - will just use scraps of paper on my desk ... 
<elfy> astraljava: how's things going - good I trsut
<knome> elfy, haha, np
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> The new tumbler version is now in saucy. 
<astraljava> elfy: Pretty well, thanks. Busy, but good. And how's life with you?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: cool!
<knome> yay, our new documentation is in saucy. jjfrv8, thanks! :)
<Noskcaj> knome, Is there any chance i could get added to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team so time?
<knome> "so" ?
 * Noskcaj has ran out of things to do while hist pbuilder creates
<knome> you're getting there. :)
<Noskcaj> *some
<knome> yep, don't worry about that
<Noskcaj> yay, eventual success ;)
<knome> looks like you're still finding your place in the community in general, which is fine
<knome> btw, thanks with all the work on packages
<knome> it looks to me that sponsored uploads are going to be handled if they are prepared well
<lderan> woo for eventual success
<knome> bluesabre, ping me when you get back.
<brainwash> bluesabre: what a bummer, I should have checked the control file of xubuntu-default-settings more precisely, it states that "lightdm-gtk-greeter (>= 1.0.0-0ubuntu2)" is required, so adding "Provides: lightdm-gtk-greeter,.." to lightdm-gtk-greeter-gtk2 won't change anything, because of the version requirement
<brainwash> a limitation of "Provides"
<bluesabre> brainwash, ah, bummer
<knome> oi bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, apparently, the uploads by daniel have been related to *having a patch in the bug*, so maybe you'd like to do that for the shimmer-themes package as well
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ochosi: need some bugs :D
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you think, that adding the gtk2 greeter package to the dependency list of xubuntu-default-settings might be an option to consider? so if one the gtk greeter packages is installed on the system, xubuntu-default-settings won't complain
<brainwash> but maybe I'm the only one who still want to use the gtk2 greeter :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: well, the gtk2 greeter is only available in that PPA, so I might be able to ship a daily xubuntu-default-settings in that PPA as well with a patch that removes the version check
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<knome> bluesabre, btw, remember you scheduled a meeting @ 15UTC today ;)=
<bluesabre> knome, I gave you an action item to reschedule or cancel said meeting ;)
<brainwash> bluesabre: yes, good idea :)
<knome> bluesabre, no, that's fine... if people show up, feel free to have the meeting
<bluesabre> k, if I'm around :)
<knome> btw, it looks like the beta freeze is postponed until monday, but other freezes (doc/ui) stand today
<bluesabre> lame
<knome> heh
<knome> well, that does make sense (documentation team needs to know the UI is stable, has nothing to do with beta)
<knome> (the non-existent documentation team, i know i know!)
<knome> (for ubuntu, that is)
<knome> ok, i'm off bugging you
<knome> see you later!
<knome> ->
<bluesabre> yeah, just gotta hope mr_pouit or micahg appears
<elfy> and the non-existent freezing things so that docs are out of date ... for ubuntu
<elfy> cya knome 
<bluesabre> hard to keep docs up-to-date when we are in between having indicators and not
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> but I wasn't talking about us :)
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> I expect at least one more api change following beta2 freeze
<elfy> there's at least 4 weeks left for sabdfl to decide something just has to be released and start the argument up again :)
<bluesabre> nah, I think he's content with what's being delivered this release
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> the big changes come with 14.04 and unity8
<elfy> I sort of take notice of that stuff - but tend to forget it all really quickly
<ochosi> bluesabre: you could get in touch with someone to upload the themes-package...
<bluesabre> ochosi: not quite sure who to ping, and I'm away from my laptop so I can't do anything if there's any additional work to do
<elfy> final beta is next week isn't it? 
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> yeah, beta2 is next week
<bluesabre> freeze is monday
<bluesabre> beta2 release is thursday (I believe)
<bluesabre> UIF is today
<elfy> just making sure before I make one last call for testing this cycle
<brainwash> ochosi: not sure anymore, but you mentioned that the restart menu entry gone missing after first logout is a known issue. does a bug report already exist?
<brainwash> ^ lightdm gtk greeter
<ochosi> brainwash: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1226509
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1226509 in Light Display Manager "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> np
<brainwash> but it works before login
<brainwash> directly after boot up
<ochosi> yeah, it's most likely not a greeter bug
<ochosi> cause the greeter adds those menuitems conditionally
<ochosi> depending on whether lightdm says that the system can_restart, can_hibernate, can_shutdown etc
<ochosi> and the restart-item always used to be there, not sure what's happening with it now
<ochosi> it needs some debugging, but that's no fun without a working --test-mode
<brainwash> looks like a job for ali1234 and his awesome debugging skills :)
<brainwash> way too much stuff involving lightdm did break
<bluesabre> between lightdm updates and logind, we've been busy
<bluesabre> ochosi, --test-mode didn't work with the power options anyway :)
<ochosi> yeah, i think mir just really put the focus away from the desktop stuff
<bluesabre> once its done, it will be better.  The converged unity8 will mean that those involved will be working on just one project instead of maintaining two
<bluesabre> its just going to take a bit to get there
<bluesabre> and I think Mir is showing good promise
<bluesabre> I do wonder, what happens to X forwarding when Mir/Wayland are complete?
<ochosi> iirc wayland has a solution for that
<ochosi> that came up at one of the talks where i heard christan skagsgard
<ochosi> eh, or what was his last name again? :)
<ochosi> kristian hogsberg i guess
<ochosi> hÃ¸gsberg i to be exact
<bluesabre> I know wayland has an html5 backend, dunno about the others
<GridCube> gkt3 has an html5 backend called broadway, i dont know how that contributes to the discussion but its something i happen to know
<GridCube> P:
<ochosi> harhar
<ochosi> nicely played
<bluesabre> yay! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1227402
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227402 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please update shimmer-themes to 1.6.2" [Undecided,Fix released]
<elfy> bluesabre: got the update themes - panel now looks better - but the sound indicator icon appears to have done a runner 
<bluesabre> elfy, thats odd, didn't push an update to the icon theme
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: could you say that in more words?
<ochosi> ok, obviously not :}
<bluesabre> ochosi: icon is missing
<bluesabre> I think is the extended translation
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> yeah, it seems to be a race condition
<ochosi> it sometimes is there, sometimes isn't
<ochosi> after a "xfce4-panel --restart" it always is there
<ochosi> elfy: ^
<elfy> ochosi: yep - that got it back - hadn't quite managed to wander off yet :)
<ochosi> good to get that confirmed
<ochosi> it's the only issue i get with the gtk3 indicators at the moment
<elfy> not as good as it to see the only one of those indicators I actually ever use working again :p
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - one last thing before I do go for a while - with greybird the panel is black - same with all the supplied themes - except orion and raleigh - is that expected behaviour at the moment? 
<ochosi> yeah, those are bright themes
<ochosi> which is why i added a new meta-icon-theme for them (elementary-xfce-darkest)
<elfy> is not greybird bright? 
<ochosi> it's mixed
<ochosi> dark panel, the rest bright
<ochosi> e.g. ubuntu's radiance is also a bright theme
<ochosi> bright panel, bright rest
<elfy> ok - thanks - I understand 
<ochosi> np
<ali1234> i only get the missing sound icon on the first start up after a reboot so it might be some race condition in the indicator startup
<ochosi> same here
<brainwash> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1227735
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227735 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "disable/fix password input field context menu" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, got notified via email already ;)
<ochosi> but thanks for the reminder
<brainwash> :P
<ali1234> when i log out the greeter says "unlock" - anyone else seen that?
<ochosi> ali1234: that should've been fixed with a very recent greeter update
<ochosi> bbl
<ali1234> ochosi: yep, fixed now
<slickymaster> elfy ochosi: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1227402. I've updated shimmer-themes and restarted xfce4-panel and even though the audio icon is the panel, as I can hoover it, it's not visible
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227402 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please update shimmer-themes to 1.6.2" [Undecided,Fix released]
<slickymaster> is in
<elfy> slickymaster: try xfce4-panel --restart
<elfy> had the same thing 
<slickymaster> elfy: already done that to no avail
<elfy> no idea then atm - not really here - sorry
<slickymaster> it is there, but it's completely black. it's just a black square
<slickymaster> elfy: np
<Unit193> brainwash: No, wayland has a RDP backend.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Dangit, I meant you...  Wayland has a RDP backend.
<bluesabre> ah
<Unit193> knome: You ever get a chance to take a peak at the -core meta mockup?
<ochosi> Unit193: where would that be at?
<Unit193> ochosi: Some pastebin a while back. :P
<knome> Unit193, i did, but i've lost the url
<Unit193> Ah, alright.
<knome> as i said then, it looked like a sensible base
<ochosi> it shouldn
<ochosi> 't be too hard to create a sensible base at least
<Unit193> Bleh, means I have to hold onto the file a little longer. :P
<ochosi> well, we should really have a team meeting about that
<Unit193> ochosi: Thinking at final beta might not be a good time, maybe brainstorm time?
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> Hrm, new XPL then, though, right?
<ochosi> but the -core meta thingy, would you want that as a package?
<ochosi> who knows
<Unit193> Just tossed in with the seed, and boom it is.
<knome> Unit193, i'm still serving the 14.04 cycle ;)
<knome> at least...
<Unit193> Ah, good.
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> slickymaster: are you using the gtk3 indicators?
<slickymaster> ochosi, yes
<slickymaster> ochosi, I guessing you're asking because of the audio icon, right?
<ochosi> yeah, just wanted to check
<ochosi> it's kinda known, the indicator-sound icon
 * ochosi still hopes ali1234 will be able to debug it...
<slickymaster> ochosi, thing is, it's there. when i hoover my mouse pointer over it, I get the pop-up label indicating it and if I click it opens
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it's just the icon that is not displayed
<slickymaster> ochosi, let's hope it's solved before the end of this cycle
<ochosi> well it's far from sure that it's going to get into 13.10
<slickymaster> ochosi, yeah, so it seems, but never loosing our hope ;)
<ochosi> indeed
<Unit193> If not, then maybe backports.
<ochosi> nice to see more people are testing this
<ali1234> i can't reproduce it reliably
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-20
<mainque> Hello
<Unit193> Bye.
<bluesabre> haha
<ochosi> ali1234: indeed, sometimes the icon is there, sometimes it isn't...
<ochosi> almost 50/50 here
<bluesabre> micahg: any way we could get this merged? https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
<ochosi> micahg: can you please update the seed-file to install gtk-theme-config by default?
<smartboyhw> ^ \o/
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<brainwash> ochosi: lp bug #1226509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1226509 in Light Display Manager "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
<elfy> brainwash: is that you on LP?
<brainwash> ochosi: when I logout of the xubuntu session, "gdbus call --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/login1 --method org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.CanReboot" resturns returns "('challange',)" instead of "('yes',)"
<brainwash> ochosi: so the restart menu entry won't show up
<brainwash> elfy: well, it's my LP account, but not my real name
<elfy> thanks - like to know who people are where I can :)
<elfy> funnily enough elfy isn't my real name either :D
<brainwash> and here is the missing key bug report: #1227637
<brainwash> lp bug #1227637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227637
<brainwash> ochosi: we should add systemd to the list of affected packages, or?
<slickymaster> knome: never mind, got it solved
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks for the testing/debugging
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe there is even something wrong with polkit, actually.. I have no clue what I am doing :)
<elfy> well you're doing more than me - I'd not have a clue how to get that far :)
<ochosi> i pinged robert about it, we'll see what he says
<ochosi> but if he doesn't get back to me, plz add your info to the bugreport
<brainwash> might be interesting to know if lubuntu is affected too
<ochosi> as they use the same greeter etc, i'm pretty sure they're affected as well
<brainwash> so it's unlikely that xfce4-session is doing some manipulation?
<ochosi> not sure, i'm waiting for robert's feedback
<brainwash> ok :)
<ochosi> he's first hunch was that it's a polkit issue
<ochosi> btw, as long as i'm in my running session, it returns "yes"
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> checking some polkit stuff at them moment
<ochosi> brainwash: how do you run the command btw? on a separate VT? if so, from what user?
<brainwash> ochosi: tty1
<brainwash> same user
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> at least when i lock the screen, i get "yes", but the menuitem still isn't there
<ochosi> curious
<brainwash> CanShutdown still returns "yes"
<brainwash> shouldn't the unity greeter be affected too?
<ochosi> possible
<ochosi> i never use that
<ochosi> but if you can test it, that'd be great
<ochosi> i'm currently running out of battery
<ochosi> bbabl
<brainwash> ok, later
<bluesabre> get ready, unity-greeter pulls all of unity
<bluesabre> and some of those indicators seem to crash out the indicator-plugin
<brainwash> yea, that would kill my system
<brainwash> same for gdm
<brainwash> but maybe there is someone in this channel who is running various test installations :)
<elfy> brainwash: well I would look - but trying to get to tty1 in a vbox doesn't work
<ali1234> yeah it does
<ali1234> press right ctrl + f1
<elfy> just found that :)
<brainwash> elfy: are you running a copy of lubuntu or default ubuntu in a vm?
<brainwash> just curious, if the menu entry for "restart" is only missing when using Xubuntu
<brainwash> (the lightdm greeter menu entry)
<brainwash> after first logout
<brainwash> it's present when you boot the pc, before graphical login
<elfy> present on logout in ubuntu
<elfy> brainwash: it's a vm - trying to work out how to do gdbus call --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/login1 --method org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.CanReboot when logged out :)
<brainwash> well, switch to tty1 and login
<elfy> brainwash: get challenge from tty1
<brainwash> same here
<brainwash> and the value of "CanShutdown" ?
<elfy> gets an error
<brainwash> uhm, "CanPoweroff"
<elfy> gets yes
<brainwash> that's the ubuntu machine?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> anything else you want me to check in tty1 - I'll screenshot the errors
<brainwash> ok, pretty strange, that the values are not the same
<elfy> not the  same as Xubuntu ? or not the same as each other? 
<brainwash> "challenge" would imply that a multiuser session is running
<brainwash> same for Xubuntu
<brainwash> but the method to query and evaluate this values might be somewhat different
<elfy> xubuntu get's different at tty1? 
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> :D
<elfy> and restart is definitely there by the way 
<brainwash> an easy workaround would be threat "challenge" like "yes"
<brainwash> and show the restart option when displaying the light gtk greeter
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for testing :)
<elfy> welcome 
<elfy> least I can do :)
<brainwash> guess we have to wait for a response from the lightdm expert
<elfy> that'll not be me :p
<elfy> I'll leave the vm available for a while before I kill it 
<ochosi> brainwash: the workaround is no good
<ochosi> this has to be fixed properly
<ochosi> i'll take a look at how unity-greeter queries for the restart-button
<ochosi> thanks for testing this, guys
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: where is the reboot-thingy located in the unity-greeter?
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, --no-install-recommends and it doesn't pull in unity (the unity-greeter i mean)
<ochosi> brb
<bluesabre> nice to know
<elfy> ochosi: in the shutdown menu - same place as ours
<ochosi> so, even with unity-greeter, the dbus-call results in "challenge"
<ochosi> instead of "yes"
<ochosi> but as they use indicator-session for the shutdown-menu (which we could do as well in xubuntu, btw) and that one seems to have a different way of checking...
<elfy> ochosi: gdbus call --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/login1 --method org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.CanReboot got me 'challenge'
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> that's confirmed now
<ochosi> and that's the reason why the greeter doesn't show the restart-menuitem
<ochosi> because it expects "yes"
<elfy> yep understood
<knome> skellat, thanks for chiming in with bug 1228098, though i kind of wanted to make sure we prepare the bug first, then ask for an ACK (and seems like we have the wonderful mr_pouit to upload those packages for us)
<ubottu> bug 1228098 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Upload the default wallpaper for Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228098
<brainwash> ochosi: regarding the polkit (or policykit^^) issue, the mystery is kinda solved
<ochosi> brainwash: aha?
<brainwash> open /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.login1.policy and compare the attributes of
<brainwash> <action id="org.freedesktop.login1.reboot-multiple-sessions">
<brainwash> and
<brainwash> <action id="org.freedesktop.login1.poweroff-multiple-sessions">
<brainwash> the values for <allow_active> differ
<brainwash> setting it to "yes" restores the restart menu entry
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> bluesabre: any clue what we should do about that? ^ ask robert again?
<ochosi> brainwash: could you add that to the bugreport so i can bug robert again?
<brainwash> ochosi: well, you can do it too, won't take any credits from me, because my account is a fake one anyway :)
<ochosi> can do later, now i have to file a FFe
<knome> (:
<brainwash> but damn, I have learned so much about lightdm, systemd/logind and policykit
<ochosi> feel free to help us with patches then in the greeter ;)
<brainwash> yea, doing my best :)
<ochosi> andrzejr: could you at some point do a new release of the indicator-plugin to fix the sound-menu scrolling?
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, updated the bugreport and subscribed robert_ancell to it
<ochosi> he can hopefully give us some direction
<elfy> ochosi: which bug is it - I keep losing it :|
<ochosi> elfy: the reboot-menuitem missing in the greeter
<ochosi> aka 1226509
<elfy> ta
<ochosi> aka bug 1226509
<ubottu> bug 1226509 in Light Display Manager "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
<brainwash> nice, and robert already fixed lightdm --test-mode, finally things start to work again, one by one :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> but we have to spot the bugs and report them one by one...
<ochosi> tons of regressions in the 1.7 cycle
<ochosi> that is really the opposite of careful pushing updates
<brainwash> bleeding edge =S
<ochosi> yeah, just not as openly as fedora
<brainwash> so glad that Ubuntu didn't switch to the rolling release model
<ochosi> yeah phew
<ochosi> well development would happen differently then, hopfully
<ochosi> hopefully
<ochosi> or at least uploading
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, the bug with the menu will be tackled in greybird
<ochosi> we'll keep the menu in the greeter
<ochosi> we still have to test whether it happens in other themes too
<brainwash> language menu?
<ochosi> no, contextmenu
<brainwash> ah
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> what's the deal with the language menu?
<brainwash> you can disable the language indicator, but a white pixel will remain
<brainwash> bug 1191509
<ubottu> bug 1191509 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Disabling language selector leaves strange artifact on the screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191509
<brainwash> very low priority bug I guess
<ochosi> yeah, but still worth fixing
<ochosi> no clue why that happens though
<ochosi> brb
<brainwash> same, back in 20min
<elfy> back tomorrow - night
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, go with robert
<ochosi> bluesabre: already did (by subscribing him)
<ochosi> skellat: thanks for weighing in!
<brainwash> ochosi: shouldn't there be a condition for this line to check, if the language indicator is disabled or not?
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1609
<ochosi> brainwash: the check is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1735
<andrzejr> bluesabre, which indicators are crashing indicator plugin?
<bluesabre> not sure, I kinda tossed out all the ones that came with unity when it started happening
<bluesabre> I'd say appmenu was probably one culprit
<andrzejr> bluesable, appmenu does not show up at all here (13.10+gtk3)
<andrzejr> it kind of works on 13.04, though
<bluesabre> it showed up for me
<bluesabre> 13.10+gtk3
<bluesabre> but seemed crashy
<ochosi> i guess appmenu should be blacklisted by default
<ochosi> it's trouble
<bluesabre> does the blacklist currently work?
<andrzejr> yes, blacklist and whitelist
<andrzejr> but require panel restart
<bluesabre> yeah, I'd definitely go ahead and blacklist appmenu, having the menu with the system indicators is silly anyway :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: you can add a second plugin though to the panel
<ochosi> bluesabre: and only show the appmenu there
<bluesabre> oh
<ochosi> but still, it's too crashy atm
<ochosi> woo, longstanding shimmer-themes bug fixed
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> which one?
<ochosi> albatross titlebar
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, if you have an opinion on bug #1226200...
<ubottu> bug 1226200 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Install/upgrade failure when numix-gtk-theme PPA package present" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226200
<andrzejr> ochosi, greybird has some usability issues (xfwm4 theme)
<ochosi> andrzejr: which ones?
<andrzejr> 1px border thickness and low contrast between active/inactive title bar
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup, can't do anything without breaking the themes out on their own
<bluesabre> would've been nice if satya/georgi just used our daily ppa
<knome> ochosi, tbh, the PPA owner should change the directory, not the approved package.
<ochosi> andrzejr: the border is actually 2px (because of a rendering-bug in Xorg it seems, introduced in 12.10 iirc)
<andrzejr> (sorry if I have already told you that before)
<knome> s/approved package/package in the official repositories/
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> andrzejr: the low contrast between in/active was discussed before and it's not *that* little. anyway, the appropriate thing would be using gtk3's inactive window style...
<ochosi> knome: feel free to chime in with my last comment then (e.g. use the shimmer-daily ppa) and close as wontfix
<ochosi> (that was my evil plan when i asked >:D)
<bluesabre> and satya can add conflicts to shimmer-themes (>= 13.10)
<bluesabre> s/to/for
<bluesabre> (to their numix-gtk-theme package)
<ochosi> ok, forwarded to satya
<knome> closed
<ochosi> ty
 * bluesabre tried to get his xubuntu-to-do list together
<bluesabre> *tries
<ochosi> andrzejr: if you have a suggestion for increasing the contrast, lemme know though!
 * bluesabre cannot type today
<andrzejr> ochosi, yes, it is better than it used to be but still on the "hard to use" side.
<ochosi> andrzejr: or post a screenshot
<andrzejr> ochosi, is it possible (feasible) to change gtk colors between active/inactive windows?
<ochosi> andrzejr: it's possible and implemented in gtk3
<ochosi> andrzejr: the whole inactive window gets dimmed
<ochosi> (one of the nicer features of gtk3 imo)
<bluesabre> sometimes
<bluesabre> slows things down tremendously in Ambiance/Radiance since the whole style changes
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> that sucks then
<bluesabre> it should have a label
<bluesabre> *use sparingly*
<andrzejr> ochosi, I don't see that in 13.10 + Greybird/master
<ochosi> i could never test it because it isn't really integrated in greybird, because in xfce it doesn't make much sense
<ochosi> andrzejr: ^ ;)
<ochosi> andrzejr: same with the "dark style" btw, that apps can request
<ochosi> i also don't support that because xfwm4 doesnt
<andrzejr> ochosi, still I would rather have mismatched colors between the title bar and gtk widgets if that had more contrast.
<ochosi> well the reason is different for those two features
<ochosi> dark style: xfwm4 doesn't support gtk3 and therefore no dark style
<ochosi> inactive windows: no gtk3 core in xfce, so it will look incredibly mixed if i add this style for gtk3 apps
<ochosi> i assume that with xfwm4 the plan is to wait until wayland is all over the place and then xfwm4 can simply be scrapped
<bluesabre> wow
<bluesabre> that would be some time away
<ochosi> well, isn't the gtk3 port of xfce too?
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> fair enough
<bluesabre> though technically, I think gtk2 is no longer receiving any updates whatsoever, so its going to start disappearing a bit quicker now
<ochosi> yeah, but there don't seem to be terrible terrible bugs in it either
<andrzejr> ochosi, fyi, I find Moheli almost perfect. The only thing I would change is having a smooth transition between the title bar and gtk widgets in inactive windows.
<ochosi> andrzejr: ah, i used to use moheli when i started using xfce!
<knome> new ubiquity version is uploaded
<bluesabre> woop!
<bluesabre> iso testing tomorrow
<knome> well the beta 2 freeze is on monday
<knome> but yeah, it wouldn't hurt to boot up some testing machines tomorrow either to check if everything is in place
<knome> ok, i'm off for today
<bluesabre> seeya knome!
<knome> i'll be off most of today, but i'll be around in the evening (approximately 20UTC at latest, but probably earlier)
<knome> good night everybody and thanks for all the hard work today!
<ochosi> hf and night
<knome> ...heh, s/most of today/most of tomorrow/ ;)
<knome> ->
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-21
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit: if you get a chance. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1228447
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1228447 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Please update catfish (saucy) to 0.8.2" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, It might be worth fixing a few of http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/saucy/full/xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com.html#catfish_0.8.1-0ubuntu1  if you're uploading
<bluesabre> goodness
<Noskcaj> yeah
<bluesabre> yeah, I mean to fix all the lintian bugs with catfish in the near future
<bluesabre> (and mugshot)
<bluesabre> but in general, wow, we suck with lintian
<bluesabre> or I do
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: not sure if you've seen this, http://eriberto.pro.br/blog/?p=1289
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, i normally add those tags manually, thanks for the link
<Noskcaj> I'll fix all the lintian errors in catfish now. Were you ever going to try and get it in debian again?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yep, something like lintian --pedantic -I -i  would work too, but I don't normally use long description.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: the goal is to get it back into debian
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> I guess once we fix it in ubuntu, we should be able to sync it back
<bluesabre> I'm still pretty new with working with lintian
<Noskcaj> I have cows to feed, i'll be back soon
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I think I'm heading to bed, be back in ~7-8 hours
<bluesabre> actually, how do you get lintian on your system to give all the feedback displayed on that site?
<Unit193> bluesabre: lintian -I --pedantic xombrero_1.6.3-1vanir0_i386.changes
<Unit193> `debuild` runs it after building.
<bluesabre> mine still only displays a minimal amount of data
<bluesabre> like for catfish-0.8.2
<bluesabre> lintian --pedantic -I -i catfish_0.8.2-0ubuntu1.dsc 
<bluesabre> I: catfish source: vcs-field-not-canonical svn://svn.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/ svn://anonscm.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/
<bluesabre> and then all the help text for that single item
<bluesabre> and nothing more
<Unit193> Yes, that's the source package, you need to run it on the built binary.  (_amd64.changes)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> "
<Unit193> "There are three ways to specify binary, udeb or source packages for Lintian to process: by file name (the .deb file for a binary package or the .dsc file for a source package), by naming a .changes file, or by using a lab query (see "LAB QUERY" below)."
<Unit193> Running it on the changes file runs it on everything listed in there.
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> that makes more sense
<bluesabre> maybe tomorrow I'll get a chance to start cleaning these things up
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Can you have a look at the debian/copyright file for catfish tomorrow? It should be put into the debian format, but i've not been around long enough to fill in the blanks
<Noskcaj> Why does catfish use a configure script if it's python?
<ali1234> Noskcaj: it looks like it uses a hand coded build.py to actually build it, and then the configure script is just to ease packaging
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've uploaded a cleaner debdiff to the bug
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You'll need to fix "executable-not-elf-or-script" upstream by adding shebangs. 
<Noskcaj> python-script-but-no-python-dep is because you don't use a setup.py
<Noskcaj> The installer theme is slightly broken. Note the "format" check-box http://imgur.com/JH0JjdB
<elfy> knome: nice wallpaper :)
<elfy> ochosi: 3 boots this morning - each time the sound indicator fails - needs the panel restarting - not sure where that would get logged
<ochosi> elfy: not sure either
<ochosi> but really, sometimes it just works for me
<ochosi> you can take a look at ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4
<ochosi> but i don't think you'll find anything useful...
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> just thought I'd mention that it's more not here than is 
<elfy> nothing in that file from today at all :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, nice work on the catfish debian!
<bluesabre> I'll work on the executable-not-elf-or-script
<bluesabre> (for next release)
<elfy> I'll remove elf from my ping list ... 
<bluesabre> haha
<bluesabre> then I'll work on executable-not-elfy-or-script
<bluesabre> then I'll work on executable-not-elfy-or-script
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I kept seeing the pings - couldn't work out what was going on lol
<brainwash> elfy: can you confirm bug 1227637 ?
<ubottu> bug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227637
<elfy> no - I've been installing and updating packages with no problem at all
<brainwash> using the command line?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> well, it's not a problem, just an annoying warning :)
<elfy> and synaptic and update mangler 
<elfy> only thing I've not used on this specific install is the USC thing
<elfy> brainwash: I understand - if I could confirm it I would :)
<brainwash> strange, I would assume that every xubuntu saucy user is affected
<elfy> I'll boot an iso see if I can see it there
<elfy> nothing there either
<brainwash> try glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
<brainwash> it's this key:
<brainwash> [com.ubuntu.update-notifier]
<brainwash> auto-launch=false
<elfy> I still don't see it 
<brainwash> and "gsettings get com.ubuntu.update-notifier auto-launch"?
<elfy> No such key 'auto-launch'
<brainwash> so why don't you get the warning about the missing key when running apt-get and the schemas get compiled? =S
<elfy> no idea :)
<brainwash> elfy: once again, thanks for testing :)
<elfy> No such key 'auto-launch' in schema 'com.ubuntu.update-notifier' as specified in override file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/20_xubuntu-default-settings.gschema.override'
<brainwash> that's the warning
<elfy> that's what is said when doing the glib-compile thing too
<brainwash> yes, kinda expected^^
<elfy> ok
<brainwash> so you are affected too
<elfy> well I was when I did glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/T5EJUnEH
<brainwash> try "sudo apt-get install --reinstall xubuntu-default-settings"
<brainwash> these should trigger the compiling process of the schema files
<brainwash> this
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/rUsU36SW
<brainwash> there we go
<elfy> I see no warning when I removed or installed arandr
<brainwash> you could add the output to the bug report
<brainwash> yes, the schama files don't get compiled every time your run apt-get
<brainwash> only, when triggered
<elfy> I'm obviously not understanding what you're trying to say here 
<brainwash> "Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0"
<elfy> ok - we were talking at cross purposes here - I thought you meant when installing anything :)
<elfy> I'll add the output to the bug for sudo apt-get install --reinstall xubuntu-default-settings
<elfy> it's been a long morning 
<brainwash> well, not every time, but I have seen the warning almost every time lately when doing updates :)
<elfy> lp is being a pita
<brainwash> and it's not about how often you see the warning (or even at all), but about the old key specified in the xubuntu-defaults override file
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> oh, lp is down
<elfy> Launchpad seems to be down
<brainwash> #launchpad
<elfy> forum seems to be down as well
<smartboyhw> They lost a datacentre!
<elfy> taken the forum down too
<elfy> brainwash: when it's up again I'll add that output 
<smartboyhw> elfy, are power failures in the UK often? I heard that it's a power failure/switch failure:)
<elfy> not often
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<elfy> We are not aware of a power cut affecting SE1 0SU.
<elfy> assuming data centre is at head office
<smartboyhw> I think they have many data centres.
<elfy> I'd guess so too - but you mentioned london ;)
<elfy> this is offtopic for this channel though
<smartboyhw> Yeah \o.
<smartboyhw> Sorry people
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for adding the terminal output to the bug report
<elfy> in the end :p
<brainwash> but you did forget to add yourself to the affected user list
<brainwash> =S
<elfy> no I didn;t
<elfy> it crashed on me again 
<elfy> I have done it now ;)
<brainwash> it's all about the bug report heat :D
<elfy> and it's gone again 
<brainwash> meanwhile I did a test installation of xubuntu saucy.. is gigolo supposed to have a wifi icon?
<brainwash> and abiword has a theme issue, the writing area is surrounded by a big black border, which makes the ruler on top of the document almost invisible
<elfy> I'm off for a bit now
<brainwash> cya :)
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: I think you have been working on display in settings. I don't know if this is that or something else.
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: in any case, it seems display 0 draws/redraws first and screen 1 second
<OvenWerks> In the case of dual displays that are "the same as" this means that screen 1 settyings override screen 0 setting.
<OvenWerks> *settings
<OvenWerks> This a problen also if screen 1 is is smaller and displays on top of screen 0 as some of the intel graphics systems in the atom boards seem to require.
<OvenWerks> The GPU on the atoms boards is closed :P
<OvenWerks> The hacked open one has issues... but drawing screen 1 first and then screen 0 at least hides them. KDE seems to have gotten it to work, so it is not an xorg thing.
<Noskcaj> debian's just released a fix for xfhelp4 and bug 1198746
<ubottu> bug 1198746 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "Drop /usr/share/xfce4/vendorinfo" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1198746
<Noskcaj> also, xfwm4 has had a manpage update release and squeeze will now install in saucy
<Noskcaj> Do we want any of them?
<Noskcaj> micahg, mr_pouit. Should we sync/merge any of the above?
<brainwash> ochosi: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1781
<brainwash> ochosi: else { gtk_widget_hide (GTK_WIDGET (gtk_builder_get_object (builder, "language_menuitem"))); }
<brainwash> ochosi: ^ this does hide the language menu completely, no more white pixel
<brainwash> bug 1191509
<ubottu> bug 1191509 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Disabling language selector leaves strange artifact on the screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191509
<ochosi> brainwash: great! thanks, will test and commit on monday
<brainwash> ochosi: between, the context menu for the password input field can be disabled by the theme? or did you assign the issue to shimmer-themes, because it is visually broken?
<Noskcaj> I'll request the two syncs and wait for micah or lionel to look at if we want the merge
<Noskcaj> Once the packages leave NEW
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-22
<bluesabre> OvenWerks: do you have a suggestion for better functionality?
<bluesabre> ochosi ^ see OvenWerks' note
<skellat> I'm trying to improve the bug filed by Noskcaj as LP Bug #1228731 but can't remember what is the second bug that will be fixed if his sync happens
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1228731 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync libxfce4ui 4.10.0-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228731
<skellat> Still need to remove sponsors as we're at the point that release team has to approve
<Unit193> Wouldn't you want to wait to see if 4.10.1 is released or what we're doing there?
<skellat> I'm not passing on his bug either way
<skellat> I'm just trying to clean it up
<skellat> I'm nervous that he wants to sync something that just hit Sid a few hours ago though
<skellat> Noskcaj gets whacked in the Patch Pilot reports for incomplete request bugs so I'm trying to figure out what the missing bits are.  Whether or not this is advisable I leave to micahg & mr_pouit.
<Noskcaj> skellat, It fixes the "xfhelp4 is missing" bug and bug 1198746
<ubottu> bug 1198746 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "Drop /usr/share/xfce4/vendorinfo" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1198746
<Noskcaj> I'm going to wait for on of the two devs to be around before i look a squeeze of xfwm4
<Noskcaj> I'm not quite sure why adding an extra space in the bug was necessary though 
<skellat> Noskcaj: Okay, go back to LP Bug #1228731 and unsubscribe sponsors as it isn't time for them to be involved.  This goes to release team to sign off on.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1228731 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync libxfce4ui 4.10.0-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228731
<skellat> There we go.
<Noskcaj> I didn't thing this needed an FFe since it's bugfix only
<skellat> We're at the point where copying things needs Release Team permission
<Noskcaj> oops
<skellat> Yeah, you're kinda cutting it close with this.
<skellat> I just want to make sure you have it set up with the data others will need to review.
 * smartboyhw didn't realize that even copying things need Release Team permission-.-
<smartboyhw> (I mean right now)
<smartboyhw> Isn't Beta 2 Freeze on Monday?
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> Which i'll be away for ;(
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, ouch
<skellat> It being the weekend, treat it as not being handled until Monday
<skellat> You may well be told either "No" or "Wait and do an SRU after release"
<Noskcaj> ok
<skellat> As to squeeze, we already killed it as it depended upon HAL.  Does the Debian version still depend upon HAL?  Upstream also was fine with us killing it in our repository at this point.
<skellat> Never mind, I just looked.  It depends on libthunar-vfs which is the HAL dependency which was killed in the repository and is not coming back.  Seeking a sync on squeeze would be a bad thing at this point.  See LP Bug #1221254.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1221254 in xbmc (Debian) "kill hal for good!" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221254
<Noskcaj> skellat, yeah, i'd forgot that till about 5 minutes ago
<skellat> Noskcaj: It happens.  Don't worry about it.
<Noskcaj> Hopefully the new squeeze will be out in time for 14.04
<skellat> It'll need a bit of re-writing to shift to using gvfs instead of the old HAL stuff
<Noskcaj> Do you think it's worth merging xfwm? It's a doc fix is the only part that really matters 
<skellat> Changelog link?
<skellat> Wait.
<skellat> A doc fix is the only part that matters?
<skellat> That freeze was Thursday.
<skellat> We're done with docs for the Saucy Salamander cycle and really shouldn't be touching them again.
<skellat> So if that's the only thing in the merge I wouldn't worry about it
<skellat> We're at the point in the cycle of squashing bugs and polishing things to make a fabulous release
<skellat> :-) I enjoy being wrong and being corrected by Scott Kitterman
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> skellat wrong? where!? :D
 * smartboyhw always gets corrected by ScottKL
<smartboyhw> *ScottK
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, the sync bug where he just wasted time ;)
<Noskcaj> skellat, http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfwm4/unstable_changelog 
<Noskcaj> It actually allows the xfwm4 online docs to work
<bluesabre> ah
<skellat> Does it close an outstanding bug on LP anywhere?
<bluesabre> I reported one at some point long long ago
<bluesabre> (probably still open)
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-screenshooter/+bug/1054407
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1054407 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "xfhelp4 is not installed" [Low,Triaged]
<bluesabre> related to that?
<skellat> bluesabre: No, that's the other one we were talking about.  Now we're looking at Noskcaj's proposed xfwm4 merge.
<bluesabre> ah, ok
<bluesabre> I'll stop butting in :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Butt it's so fun! :P
<Noskcaj> lol
<bluesabre> :D
<Noskcaj> the xfwm bug is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714026
<ubottu> Debian bug 714026 in xfwm4 "[xfwm4] Local documentation referenced by man page does no more exist" [Normal,Fixed]
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: Sorry, been gone for a while. I think, if possible draw the backgrounds in reverse oder
<OvenWerks> *order
<OvenWerks> Draw screen 1 first then screen 2
<OvenWerks> It is sort of a funny thing, because it only probably matters to most people the first time they login after which they put the screens side by side.... Just buggy systems Like the Intel Atom GPU seem to have the problem all the time. This may be the desktop or xfwm4 that does this anyway.
<OvenWerks> Ga, I must be half asleep. Two lines up should be screen 1 then screen 0
<OvenWerks> Not something to worry about for 13.10 though
<bluesabre> OvenWerks, thanks for reporting it, I'll look into possibly doing that
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I've fixed executable-not-elf-or-script for whenever I do the next catfish release.  Thanks for the tip :)
<Noskcaj> yay
<Noskcaj> Why do you have the makefile instead of setup.py?
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: I have such a broken gpu for testing :P
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, it's only visually broken and i have the patch almost ready here locally (for Greybird)
<knome> morning elfy 
<knome> channel: which of you are able to do testing for beta 2?
<Noskcaj> knome, not me, sorry. My family is going on holidays
<knome> Noskcaj, okay, have fun
<Noskcaj> knome, I won't. Can you have a look at bug 1228731 and the new debian version of xfwm4?
<ubottu> bug 1228731 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync libxfce4ui 4.10.0-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228731
<knome> that bug seems to be fine (just find an uploader now)
<knome> and what about xfwm4?
<Noskcaj> There's been a release that fixes http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714026
<ubottu> Debian bug 714026 in xfwm4 "[xfwm4] Local documentation referenced by man page does no more exist" [Normal,Fixed]
<knome> i don't know if we want to pull in new versions at this point if they aren't going to fix release-critical bugs because they are prone to new bugs
<Noskcaj> both of these are bugless and fix things that it would be bad to release with
<Noskcaj> *new bug-less
<knome> well you can't promise that, nobod can
<elfy> knome: morning and I'll be doing some testing 
<knome> i'm fine with both, if you take care of getting them uploaded and responsibility for looking after fixes *if* they break something
<knome> Noskcaj, ^
<knome> elfy, heh, i expected you to ;)
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> knome, of course. I'll still wait for micahg or mr_pouit to check xfwm4
<knome> Noskcaj, lionel probably isn't around to do that, and micah will be awfully busy anyway, so it might not happen, at least before b2
<knome> i'm off for now. see you
<Noskcaj> bye
<elfy> ochosi: you seen the more or less unreadable 'rulers' in abiword ?
<brainwash> elfy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1031137
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1031137 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Abiword has strange black color" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> and this strange black border, or is it supposed to be black?
<brainwash> looks wrong to me, but I never really use abiword, just randomly opened it yesterday (test installation)
<Noskcaj> i just opened abiword, that's new and very ugly
<elfy> brainwash: yea - saw that bug and we were talking about it yesterday - then I wandered off into real life and forgot about it :)
<brainwash> elfy: xubuntu should move to libreoffice (maybe only pick writer and calc)
<elfy> brainwash: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-November/008541.html
<elfy> pretty sure it's raised it's head more recently on the m/l too
<elfy> personally I use LO - but I see no reason to move to it - if I want to use it I can 
<elfy> I use gedit more often than mousepad
<elfy> I only use gmusicbrowser to test during cycle
<elfy> I never use gigolo 
<elfy> I never use catfish
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> elfy: so the major concern was, that it will break the 700mb cd format limit
<brainwash> besides that, LO was (is?) considered to be bloated
<bluesabre> the other part is that LO doesn't actually use gtk
<bluesabre> but with how bad abiword is, I will happily support a push for LO
<brainwash> neither does firefox, or?
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> yeah, we don't have great complaints against it other than its size
<bluesabre> which we don't care about as much either anymore
<brainwash> and it does work without having java installed, it's optional
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<brainwash> cya
<elfy> brainwash: not sure what the outcome was/has been since tbh
<brainwash> elfy: plenty of time to reconsider this change for 14.04 :)
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2013-June/005589.html
<elfy> I knew I'd seen it all recently
<brainwash> oh, it really is a never ending story
<elfy> yep
<elfy> unfortunately the only arguments I've seen for moving to it are 
<elfy> 1 - I use it
<elfy> 2 - we've got more space
<elfy> neither of which are good reasons imho
<brainwash> 3 - it's LO
<elfy> well I don't count that as an argument :)
<brainwash> so back to the black border / almost invisible ruler issue
<elfy> which I assume is theme based issue
<brainwash> can you check different themes?
<elfy> I did check with the default installed themes - not good in any of the dark ones
<brainwash> this is almost a show-stopper :/
<elfy> can read it in high contrast and raleigh/ can justjust about see it in bluebird,greybird andorion, can;t see it in numix
<elfy> whoops
<elfy> not sure what that was about 
<brainwash> do you think, that this should be fixed before final release? currently it looks like nobody really cares about this visual glitch
<elfy> I do - but I can't fix it 
<elfy> and it's sunday afternoon - others might too - but they might be away :)
<brainwash> but maybe it's not fixable, due to some gtk shenanigans in abiword
<brainwash> yea true
<elfy> maybe so - I can't answer that question - hence the comment to simon earlier
<elfy> I'd assume bluesabre knows if it is or isn't
<brainwash> should we add details about the ruler issue to the existing bug report? maybe even add shimmer-themes to the list of affected packages
<brainwash> bug 1031137
<ubottu> bug 1031137 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Abiword has strange black color" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031137
<elfy> I'd not add shimmer-themes without double checking 
<elfy> I'll make a note on the bug report for the moment 
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<brainwash> http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13262
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13262 in Front End - GTK "gtk3: the document background around the page is black" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> yep
<elfy> thanks - no idea how to tie the lp bug with that
<elfy> if that's been resolved/fixed why is it still in the abiword version we're using 
<elfy> brainwash: I agree that releasing this as it is is not very good
<brainwash> no sure, why it's still there
<brainwash> maybe some theme tweaks are required
<ochosi> brainwash, elfy: i have once before spent lotsa time to debug that silly abiword issue (yes, it's a long-standing issue), i tried to work with upstream to get it resolved
<ochosi> but it's been a long time and i'm not sure it was ever resolved
<ochosi> anyway, i can't really fix it in the theme i guess
<ochosi> and at this point i'm not feeling like spending lotsa time to look into this issue again
<elfy> ok thanks ochosi 
<elfy> I sort of guessed it had been looked at previously but couldn't find ref to it 
<ochosi> i can dig around tomorrow
<brainwash> what a bummer :/
<Unit193> elfy: Yeah, those aren't good reasons.  I'd think abiword breaking all the time and LO being much more compatible would be though. ;)
<ochosi> we can have that discussion again for 14.04
<ochosi> but someone should sum up the diffs in an app-comparison in a wiki page
<Unit193> Do we have to? :P
<ochosi> volunteers..?
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, it would be good to take an informed decision
<ochosi> otherwise it might end up very subjectively
<Unit193> That's the main issue with the music manager. :P
<elfy> refusing to get drawn into that one ... 
<ochosi> Unit193: huhu, write an app comparison and let's have a discussion :>
<Unit193> I'm with you, I'll do whatever I want, and others can do what they want.  I'm not sane anyway, so there's always that.
<elfy> ochosi: I agree with that 
<Unit193> find, grep, and nvlc or mocp being one, right? :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Actually, what'd make sense is if the users of the applications write up the section for their favorite player, that way you get a bias that should about even out.
<elfy> I think we're talking about abiword/LO not music players :)
<brainwash> speaking of moc(p) it's not usable in saucy due to a seg fault in librcc
<Unit193> Erm, crap.
<brainwash> maybe a survey could help to determine, if the xubuntu users prefer LO over abiword/gnumeric
<Unit193> popcon likes LO better.
<Unit193> ( http://paste.openstack.org/show/29UMKCNaEqIaKeQIOLER )
<Unit193> brainwash: You know the bug report?
<elfy> Unit193: but is popcon ignoring other flavour installs of LO 
<Unit193> Of course not.
<elfy> then it's meaningless 
<Unit193> For the most part, yeppers.
<elfy> I'd say we need a comparison and perhaps something for people to yay/nay 
<elfy> or have it at a meeting for people to yay/nay or ... 
<Unit193> LP poll? :P
<elfy> well - as I tend to leave abiword/gnumeric installed and install writer and calc - I'd be +0 whichever we did 
<elfy> I think brainwash could do the comparison :)
<Unit193> I purge 'em, if I'm not using them why have them?
<elfy> well ... as they are only actually in a partition for about 4 months why bother doing anything with them 
<knome> tbh, i don't think libreoffice is a real option for xubuntu
<elfy> mmm - well I'm not sure abiword is either when you can't see the tab ruler in most of the defualt themes
<Unit193> knome: I'm not saying I disagree, but why do you think that?
<knome> elfy, sure, but that's a different issue altogether
<elfy> :)
<knome> libreoffice is a totally different beast
<elfy> yep - I understand that 
<knome> i would personally be fine with even lighter office apps than abiword and gnumeric
<elfy> all I've been saying really is that people should set out the pros/cons somewhere 
<knome> or, abiword mostly; i think gnumeric is fine in what it does
<knome> abiword is not exactly like wordpad, which is around the level i'd be happy with
<elfy> personally I'd be fine with none because I install calc and writer :)
<knome> right, exactly
<knome> when i need office apps, i need pretty specific stuff
<knome> but i don't think i'm the normal user
<knome> or the average, to that matter
<knome> i think many need word processing here and there, and for that, abiword or something even lighter would work well
<Unit193> knome: calligrawords or wordgrinder!
<knome> as long as they are able to type and they can print the stuff out of the machine
<knome> Unit193, well i'd like a typesetting set, so if you know where to get one cheaply... ;)
<knome> i'm just saying that most people who say "abiword is not good/enough" are people who need word processing often
<knome> and that's a completely valid point from their POV
<knome> but then, most of our users probably don't (i don't mind if i'm proven wrong)
<knome> and for them abiword is more than good
<Unit193> Might want to wait for early T to talk about it?  I'd think the worst part isn't features, but "Why can't my friend open this?" or "Why can't I open this on another computer."
<elfy> yep
<knome> Unit193, that would be a better time to discuss it
<knome> then again, not sure we want to make such a drastic move for an LTS, so the *ideal* time is after 14.04
<knome> but it naturally won't hurt to discuss it earlier
<elfy> I see what you did there :p
<knome> i just hope it doesn't go the same route as before
<knome> somebody says LO is awesome, abiword is crap
<knome> 10 people say "yeah i use LO too"
<knome> discussion dead.
<elfy> insist there's something to discuss against perhaps 
<knome> one of the problems is that people do not see that we are selecting a default set of applications, not the set of applications the vocal minority uses
<knome> if we installed what i do, you'd get for example inkscape, which is useless for most
<elfy> I know 
<elfy> we'd not have gmb if I chose
<knome> ;)
<elfy> it goes on and on 
<knome> yep
<knome> with office stuff...
<knome> i'm pretty sure must of us agree on the fact that libreoffice writer is better than abiword, if you want a full-fledged word processor
<knome> tbh, there's not much agreeing because that comparison is a fact
<elfy> lol
<knome> however, many people seem to think that's a valid argument for including LO writer (and with that more of LO)
<Unit193> Well, I'd personally like to drop USC out of depends for xubuntu-desktop and put it as recommends, like all the other non-required applications...
<knome> which is where i disagree...
<knome> Unit193, we should set up xubuntu-core
<knome> Unit193, wouldn't that ultimately fix that issue?
<knome> Unit193, but yeah, what you say is quite valid as well, since it's not only about the default set of apps installed
<Unit193> http://unit193.tk/xubuntu.core  - http://unit193.tk/xubuntu.desktop and I don't think so.
<knome> Unit193, looked again at .core, and it still looks sane
<knome> Unit193, we really should work on this for T
<Unit193> knome: Any questions/feedback?
<Unit193> knome: Sounds good to me as well.  May have to put in a basic browser (elinks, w3m) to fill the requirement of www-browser. :/
<knome> midori maybe?
<knome> i know, kind of diverging, but...
<Unit193> I know what I'd like, but heh.  That'd pull in webkit, additionally?
<knome> Unit193, would you be fine with writing some brief argumentation for the logic of those choices generally in a wikipage, then also list the packages that should be recommends instead of depends?
<knome> Unit193, i'm pretty sure skellat is interested in helping with this as well
<Unit193> Eh, wiki. :/
<knome> Unit193, ultimately, we should be able to turn that spec wikipage into work items on the tracker for T and implement them
<knome> i know, but that's where we're building up on our specs...
<knome> if you want, i won't stop you from working on it in a pad or so, and then just dumping it to a wiki when you think it's ready.
<Unit193> Oh, also http://unit193.tk/lubuntu.core is there too, something to compare it to (which it doesn't really.)
<knome> heh
<knome> have other flavors pretty much leeched our artwork stuff for their own use?
<knome> (not a problem, just interesting to see, because that implies other stuff is pretty... lousy)
<Unit193> Hmm?
<Unit193> They use the weird box thing.
<knome> lightdm-gtk-greeter
<knome> plymouth-theme-lubuntu-logo
<knome> sounds awfully familiar
<Unit193> Greeter, yeah.
<knome> or is it just the names
<knome> :P
<knome> think xubuntu-docs should be depends of xubuntu-desktop
<Unit193> I'd be fine with that, but not sure -core should mirror that?
<knome> most probably not
<knome> recommends at most.
 * skellat notes that it is Sunday when he has two podcasts to produce and is behind on getting one scripted at the moment
<knome> wondering if that means -core should ship another menu file, or something
<knome> skellat, no problem, we didn't sign you up anything for today
<knome> for anything?
<knome> yeah, i'm a bit tired 
<elfy> it's better to miss words - keeps us on our toes :)
<knome> heh
<knome> didn't miss, i just aligned them weirdly :P
<knome> ...i think
<elfy> two for's would have worked :)
<knome> i should start typing finnish
<knome> THAT'D keep you on your toes
<elfy> that'll work ... 
<Unit193> OK, so my goal is basically getting everything to a workable state without much additional effort, thus networkmanager would be in there, but since things like browsers change per person...  Though that means things like lightdm could drop to recommends, since there's other options.
<knome> Unit193, for -core or -desktop?
<Unit193> Core, of course.
<knome> mh
<Unit193> Different goal?
<knome> -core not having any login manager in depends? eh... :)
<knome> that sounds fair, but i'm wondering if it's sane to drop kind of essential GUI stuff out
<Unit193> It's very workable, and since recommends are on by default you'd still get it.
<knome> i mean, it's still xubuntu-core, not pure-xfce
<knome> unless you install with mini, then with --no-install-recommends
<knome> which is obviously and edge case, and you should know what you are doing, but...
<knome> it's still xubuntu
<knome> i suppose one thing that should define the xubuntu core package is the xubuntu looks
<Unit193> Exactly.  I'd be fine with that staying as a dep, though.
<knome> and lightdm is an integral part of that
<Unit193> Yep, and that's why I'd leave artwork in there.
<knome> i don't think firefox is an essential part of the xubuntu identity, for example
<knome> (of course!)
<Unit193> I'd hope not, even if I like it. :P
<knome> maybe there should only be a browser in recommends for core
<knome> that could be like midori
<knome> or something else really light, but possibly still GUI
<knome> the point is, users who do not know anything about building up a sane system will use -core, and if we don't hold their hands in some way, they wil get an awfully bad experience and quit.
<knome> or mess up their systems
<bluesabre> midori is actually an xfce project, right?
<knome> and say xubuntu sucks becuase it broke their system
<knome> bluesabre, yup
<Unit193> knome: I understand that, and agree with most, but don't think it should be users that don't know what they're doing. :P
<Unit193> Still waiting on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=695874 or whatever the ITP is. :/
<ubottu> Debian bug 695874 in xxxterm "xxxterm renamed to xombrero, new versions available" [Normal,Open]
<knome> Unit193, you're saying we shouldn't know what we're doing? ;)
<Unit193> knome: I never do.
<knome> wondering if the option to install -core should only be in debian-installer, not ubiquity.
<knome> just wondering.
<knome> maybe that'd keep out most of the "i know it all" -newbies
<Unit193> knome: It'll be a mini.iso+tasksel/apt-get etc.
<knome> Unit193, at some point there was discussion going on if that should be an option in ubiquitu
<knome> *ubiquity
<Unit193> Well, that wouldn't be all bad.
<knome> that would make it accessible, and when i say "it", i mean "-core with recommends"
<Unit193> skellat: You had a chance to check the WIP seed? :P
<Unit193> Yep.
<knome> but that'd mean we would have to make sure there is enough GUI stuff for the newbie to work it out.
<Unit193> Eh, I'd have to resign if you want USC in it. :P
<knome> heh
<knome> no, i'm not saying that.
<Unit193> (And I'm kidding.)
<knome> in -core, i'd say synaptic is fine.
<knome> (if it's supported at all)
<knome> and tbh, we probably should look at adding synaptic in the seed again if it's still supported.
<Unit193> Well, I'm not the most fine with that, but don't object strongly. :)
<knome> at least as a recommend, so basically to the default installation
<Unit193> -desktop I'd like that idea, but that's just another preference.
<knome> that wouldn't mean we could drop USC... unfortunately
<knome> so maybe that'd be a bad idea
<knome> people who want synaptic can install it anyway
<Unit193> That was the general idea, yes.
<knome> and many have just learned to use apt-get anywa
<knome> *anyway
<Unit193> knome: Mica doesn't want to drop USC unless you get another paid option.
<knome> either literally learned or changing habits
<knome> paid?
<Unit193> (I use synaptic just to check origins.)  Things you buy from Canonical, or at least I think that's the biggest thing (behind maintainer maybe) LSC.
<knome> aha
<knome> yeah, while i don't need that stuff myself, i kind of agree
<Unit193> OK, so should I go through the reasoning here now? :P
<knome> i need to go for an hour in 5, but if you want to... as long as it's on a wikipage sometime before next year :P
<knome> ok, i'm off, see you in an hour or so
<Unit193> knome: OK, I have something basic, but it may not be something anyone can understand. :P
 * elfy is more likely to understand something basic :p
<Unit193> Not like this you aren't: http://piratepad.net/LHmJgCBW6V
<elfy> yes I can :)
<Unit193> Wooo!  Awesome.
<elfy> update-manager - do people use this?  I'd assume someone using this to install a basic kit is going to know what apt-get upgrade does ;)
<Unit193> Yeah, I know I never need it, and it's been the cause of some problems in #x before.  I'm in favor of dropping.  Thanks for the feedback!
<elfy> you want people to make notes on the pad?
<Unit193> Didn't think about it, just my way of avoiding the wiki for now.  Might be a good idea, but I did just comment out update-manager. :)
<elfy> well I'd leave it on there - just leave disparaging comments :p
<Unit193> Think I did that for half the stuff anyway. :P
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> drop whoopsie?! :/
<Unit193> As part of a -core metapackage, not -desktop.
<brainwash> yea, I understand
<Unit193> And not been done.
<brainwash> I removed most of those packages anyway
<Unit193> Hrm, an idea was to add synaptic to recommends, but that may be more of a preference thing.
<brainwash> Thunar depends on desktop-file-utils
<elfy> well I always add synaptic :)
<ali1234> software-properties-gtk is the only gui way to install proprietary drivers - it's pretty important
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes, so having it listed is somewhat double tasking.
<Unit193> Well, you can install drivers other ways...
<ali1234> yeah, by going to command line and running jockey-cli with a series of cryptic arguments
<ali1234> i don't think anyone does that unless their system is so broken X won't start
<elfy> and again someone likely to be installing -core is going to be more likely to know what they're doing anyway imo
<ali1234> be careful with that argument
<elfy> I'm never careful 
<ali1234> you might as well say that if they know what they're doing they can just install all the packages manually, and drop -core entirely
<elfy> we can all go home then in that case :)
<Unit193> Well, it's easy to install software-properties-gtk, but as xubuntu-default-settings has a desktop file for the settings manager to it, may want to leave it.
<brainwash> what about the infamous catfish search app?
<Unit193> Not required IMO, but it's nice for those that use it.
<brainwash> does it still require the zeitgeist backend?
<Unit193> Nope, been fixed.
<brainwash> took them like 1 year to fix it :)
<Unit193> Too late, been purged a long time, I use locate and find. :D
<Unit193> elfy: Oh, do you actually use it (often)?
<elfy> use what?
<elfy> Unit193: ^^
<Unit193> Synaptic.
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I always use it - can't be bothered to fiddle with apt-get unless I know the package name and haven't got time to wait for USC
<Unit193> Might be worth adding if removing the only other installed GUI package manager, but preference again?   Same with gdebi?
<elfy> it is a personal preference imo
<elfy> yea - I have that kciking about as well
<elfy> but if we need to keep USC re comments of micah then perhaps synaptic should be like other things people install for preference
<Unit193> Ah, desktop stuff.  Yeah, I just want to drop it to a recommend.
<elfy> synaptic?
<Unit193> USC, currently xubuntu-desktop depends on it.
<Unit193> brainwash: Any more input?  Or am I just totally off my rocker?
<elfy> Unit193: I think that USC is likely to be on of those things we should have 
<Unit193> knome: The themes section is actually following with the seed theme section.  "Other" contains xubuntu-artwork thoughts.
<brainwash> Unit193: is the general idea to establish a Xubuntu light edition (ubuntu minimal + xubuntu core)?
<knome> aha
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes, very minimal install but one that actually basically works OOTB (thus, networkmanager.)
<knome> minimal but usable on a daily installation
<knome> if somebody wants something even lighter, they probably want a weird enough installation that's best to do manually
<brainwash> mmh, that made me think of xubuntu cli edition
<knome> that wouldn't be xubuntu...
<brainwash> xubuntu logo inside the terminal
<Unit193> Like archey does, only blue.
<knome> no, i don't think that's still xubuntu
<Unit193> (Kidding.)
<knome> (i know)
<brainwash> so, who would benefit from the -core installation? wouldn't it split the community?
<knome> people who would install other default apps anyway
<Unit193> For use with the mini.iso.
<brainwash> everyone does
<knome> the point is to make -core still be xubuntu, to avoid not being xubuntu or splitting the community
<brainwash> "everyone"
<knome> it's dangerous to go the generalisation route...
<Unit193> I don't think the tech board rules metapackages?  Anywho, thanks and I'll read more when I get back. :)
<Unit193> That is to say, don't think they do for things like apport/-core.
<knome> hmph, no idea
<knome> if it's installable via ubiquity, they might
<elfy> knome: is the idea/hope to be working on this so it's available for 14.04?
<knome> elfy, yep
<elfy> ok - and for the moment we are assuming that a default xubuntu standard thing is the same as now for 
<elfy> 14.04
<elfy> I guess
<knome> well we have to assume something, right? :)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'm just starting to think about what I want to do with testing for T 
<knome> :)
<knome> automated testing
<knome> ;)
<elfy> don't mind the sands shifting a bit under my feet as long as we don't get a landslide is all :)
<elfy> yep - it's foremost in my head now 
<knome> nobody's hoping that
<elfy> indeed :)
<elfy> knome: did you see this one? http://pad.ubuntu.com/duYDbHFs7s
<knome> nope, not yet
<elfy> mmk
<knome> agreed with the last point
<knome> we definitely should try to cut down to one test
<knome> or maybe two
<knome> post-installation
<knome> and hardware stuff
<knome> like printers, scanners...
<elfy> ok - makes sense - will look at that 
<knome> could be easier to track possibly hardware-related issues and software issues separated
<elfy> yep
<knome> let me know if you need help with it at any point
<elfy> I'll work on it - get to a point I'm happy and then you can look and we can go from there - does that make sense?
<knome> yep, that sounds good
<elfy> k
<OvenWerks> knome: with regards to the LO discusion. ubuntustudio uses an installer that lets studio put an installer in say the office menu that has just office apps in it. We use it for one because we don't ship LO (or abiword for that matter). I am willing to change it to be more generic if it would help
<knome> OvenWerks, i know you do - and thanks
<knome> OvenWerks, not sure if that's something we want to do since we ship *some* office apps already, but we'll see
<OvenWerks> It is easy to configure to have whatever you want in a menu.
<knome> yep, i get that
<OvenWerks> The next version does not show things already installed
<knome> :)
<elfy> knome: I'd certainly like to see the option discussed 
<knome> that doesn't remove other packages though
<OvenWerks> no
<knome> (and i don't think it should)
<OvenWerks> It is just that we can't ship "everything"
<elfy> knome: I don't remove the defaults either - but then my install's tend to not last longer than 4 months anyway 
<elfy> anyway - night all 
<knome> i can imagine many people installing LO wanting to remove abiword/gnumeric though
<knome> night elfy :)
<elfy> knome: those people can do so - personally I'm not worried about a few bytes of space
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> but then people can also do that with UCS/synaptic and no menu entry ;)
<elfy> but if LO was default and I wanted abiword/gnumeric - I'd be wanting to remove LO
<knome> sure
<elfy> yea - this is one of those discussions that it's hard to have here as we're more likely to know what we want to do 
<elfy> what we NEED to do is provide a sane default 
<OvenWerks> The main problem with installing LO that I have had, is that the default *.doc opener remains abiword... which has confused my wife.
<elfy> OvenWerks: I noticed that too 
<knome> OvenWerks, that's naturally fixable, but yeah, i can see that confusing people
<OvenWerks> My wife sends gets file from windows computers a lot
<elfy> I fix it the first time I remember - what I've not managed to do is remember earlier ;)
<OvenWerks> :)
<elfy> anyway - sofa beckons - cya 
<knome> i'm off to bed as well
<knome> i'll be back in 12 hours or sth
<knome> o/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-15
<Noskcaj> eric_the_idiot, How many changes are there between xfpm 1.3.2 and 1.4.0?
<eric_the_idiot> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2014-September/033735.html just those
<eric_the_idiot> 19?
<eric_the_idiot> but two are for appdata, one is for typos in DBG messages so those don't really count
<Noskcaj> eric_the_idiot, Sorry, i had read the email wrong, thought that was all 1.2>1.4
<eric_the_idiot> oh no, we've been a little more productive than that :)
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> i suppose i'll leave the ubuntu uploads to bluesabre
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot, looks like you got busy :)
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and package xfdesktop now, and xfpm tonight (new light-locker-settings needed at the same time for that)
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, yeah, figured we've been stalling long enough. I'm pretty sure ochosi_ wanted now as opposed to waiting another week. If not he'll yell at me when he gets back :)
<bluesabre> :)
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, Any idea why this would cause an issue https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2014-September/033736.html It looks like the logic was just reversed, unless it set those keys and they just need to revert them?
<bluesabre> yeah, I think he'll just need to toggle the key
<bluesabre> since whatever worked for him prior is now flipped
<bluesabre> the logind-handle-lid-switch key
<eric_the_idiot> thanks, I'll reply to him
<bluesabre> xfdesktop uploaded to utopic
<bluesabre> bbl
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11160
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11160 in General "Regression: No suspend on lid close" [Normal,New]
<eric_the_idiot> oh, I missed that, thanks
<elfy> ind panel keeps crashing :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: the 3rd bug number is not clickable https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/xfdesktop4/4.11.8-0ubuntu1
<brainwash> missing ":"
<brainwash> the lp report needs to be closed manually then
<brainwash> will you prepare the "backport" of 4.11.8 to trusty also?
<intherye> Hi all, I have a question regarding Debian import: package mixxx is v1.11.0~dfsg-3 (since 2014-02-12) in Debian Testing, in Utopic it's v1.10.1~dfsg0-1. why was this package not pulled from debian for Utopic?
<brainwash> intherye: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mixxx/1.11.0~dfsg-3
<brainwash> looks like it remains in -proposed due to some build errors
<intherye> aha, if they are resolved will it be migrated to universe for 15.04 release? For Trusty Tahr version also build errors are reported (for arm64 and ppc64el; maybe they don't count?)
<brainwash> intherye: I have no clue
<brainwash> I suggest that you ask in #ubuntu-devel
<brainwash> the xubuntu team does not maintain the mixxx package
<intherye> ok, thanks!
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11165
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11165 in General "Changing workspace don't change login screen" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> ^ xubuntu bug report
<elfy> ppa purge then :p
<brainwash> not that helpful :/
<brainwash> maybe there is something broken in our package
<brainwash> elfy: does it work fine for you?
<elfy> not using any ppa's at all 
<brainwash> in utopic without any ppas
<elfy> I run what we have in the daily 
<elfy> nope - no ppa's, or at least none like that one 
<brainwash> but does the wallpaper changing still work?
<elfy> appears to 
<brainwash> you change it, logout and lightdm should display the new one
<elfy> did the last time I logged out 
<elfy> I don't do that very often though tbh
<brainwash> exactly, it's something that can break without anyone noticing it immediately
<brainwash> but luckily it's not broken :)
<elfy> well
<elfy> there are ~14 in in team - this late in the cycle I would expect that the majority of those are running what we expect to release
<elfy> I'd hazard a guess that at least one of those logs out
<brainwash> changes wallpaper + logs out
<brainwash> + wonders why the wallpaper did not change :D
<brainwash> it's not a test case
<elfy> lots of things aren't testcases
<elfy> and you really don't want to start me on how utterly pointless any of the testcases are if no-one actually bothers to do them
<elfy> because you'll be here a while listening to me
<brainwash> the question is, how likely is it that someone notices a bug like this
<elfy> someone did
<brainwash> the report does not seem to be valid or there is some information missing
<brainwash> just checked, our PPAs don't have any xfdesktop packages for trusty or utopic
<brainwash> lets find out, added a comment :)
<knome> even if it is a valid bug, it's very low priority..
<elfy> ok - wallpaper changed fine with logout
<knome> 21:13  knome: even if it is a valid bug, it's very low priority..
<elfy> thanks 
<elfy> I guess you're currently elfy +2 :p
<knome> heh
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> I don't believe I've changed the wallpaper once since upgrading to utopic.
<brainwash> Unit193: waiting for the new one? :)
<Unit193> Heh, nah, I use different ones.
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfpm 1.4 hit experimental, biggest changes in packaging is no longer running autoreconf.
<brainwash> expect 1.4.1 soon
<Unit193> brainwash: Also, nice spot on the xfdesktop4 bug that wasn't automatically closed, was going to point that out too but saw you already caught it. :)
<brainwash> gotta close them all
<brainwash> btw debian is stuck with xfdesktop 4.11.6?
<Unit193> No, they just got .8 in experimental.
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfdesktop4/news/20140915T172017Z.html
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice, got the trusty packageset updated there.
<brainwash> ah, nice
<skellat> brainwash: I got a fun one here that needs nuking that isn't necessarily ours: LP Bug 1341320 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1341320 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "empty apt-get install command suggested by hwe-support-status" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1341320
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-16
<bluesabre> brainwash: bug marked fixed
<bluesabre> the ppa sounds like its missing our AccountsService patch
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, now I can send my next request(s)
<bluesabre> Unit193: probably just going to merge the debian xfpm
<bluesabre> with the version number jump, need to poke -release anyway
<Unit193> I'm sure you know this release supports 0.7.0 too.
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> gathering a list of xfce packages we cannot directly upload, am I missing anything? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8354635/
<bluesabre> xfpm pushed to utopic
<bluesabre> ochosi, forestpiskie, feel free to comment on #ubuntu-release
<skellat> bluesabre: The points being brought up by ScottK should have been brought up *months* ago 
<skellat> GNOME should've talked to us about things
<skellat> Going off wildcat with Jackson along for the ride is not playing nice socially
<bluesabre> thanks for commenting skellat
<skellat> bluesabre: You know, I think I'm the only one in Xubuntu Team who doesn't actually have a defined role
<bluesabre> have one in mind? :)
<skellat> Don't know.  There are rumblings from work about recall.  I have to wait to see how this week plays out.
<bluesabre> Seems like, from your various g+ posts, that your work is... unpredictable
<Unit193> skellat: What are mica.hg, lder.an, Nos.kcaj, and jj.frv8's roles?
<bluesabre> the first is a DMB, so there's that
<Unit193> bluesabre: Does that count in Xubuntu?
<bluesabre> not specifically :)
<skellat> The first is still DMB and thereby owns the xubuntu-dev group, the second is meeting.ology wrangler, the third does packaging, and the fourth is emeritus
<skellat> virtualbox is in the list so multiverse is probably included as "unsupported"
<brainwash> bluesabre: but it's the package from the ubuntu repo
<brainwash> bluesabre: xfdesktop4
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11165
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11165 in General "Changing workspace don't change login screen" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> any idea what else could be broken here?
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> i guess there's lots and lots of backlog
<ochosi> if any of you have a news-digest in mind for me, that'd be a great time-saver :)
<elfy> a few bugs, a few uploads, a few updates and someone expecting everyone to bend over backwards for them - but you know about the last one :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: aha, never backported our fix http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xfdesktop4/xfdesktop4_4.11.8-0ubuntu1/changelog http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xfdesktop4/xfdesktop4_4.11.6-1ubuntu1/changelog 
<bluesabre> debian/patches/xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch: update
<bluesabre>     patch to only update on first workspace filename change (LP: #1318307)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1318307 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "accounts-daemon rewrite /var/lib/AccountsService/users/xxx file every time workspace is changed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318307
<bluesabre> we can do that when we push 4.11.8 to trusty
<bluesabre> oh wait, that might not be it
<brainwash> sure, but how does this patch help?
<bluesabre> the problem might be that he is using a personal wallpaper, right?
<bluesabre> the login bg is only updated if it is system-readable, if I recall
<brainwash> maybe
<brainwash> but why would adding a PPA break this?
<brainwash> sadly I have no clue
<brainwash> on top of that, it's not an upstream bug :/
<bluesabre> it probably didn't... he clearly changed his background after adding the ppa, and we don't have a huge selection, so it is likely its something in his home folder
<bluesabre> xubuntu default wp -> xubuntu rocks -> ppa -> /home/user/furry-kittens.jpg
<bluesabre> just confirm the location of the file he is selecting, and that will probably reveal itself
<bluesabre> work time, bbl
<elfy> brainwash bluesabre "the login bg is only updated if it is system-readable" that'd be why it works for me then - I copy bg's into /usr/blah
<elfy> commenting
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for commenting
<brainwash> I thought that accountsservice would just create a copy of the wallpaper to prevent permission issues
<brainwash> it works like this for profile pictures
<bluesabre> brainwash: accountsservice updates the path to the selected wallpaper instead of copying.  So it has to be readable by the lightdm user, permissions 644 or higher
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> elfy: heh, right, thanks :)
<ochosi> had a lot to catch up with today but i'll hopefully be around more tomorrow and tday
<elfy> ochosi: :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Reminder, 'systemd-services' only exists as a virtual package.
<Unit193> (Hopefully that's helpful.) Updated ppa version numbering.
<Noskcaj> skellat, I think my job in xubuntu is actually "Packaging everything that unit, sean, and corsac don't want to"
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> That works
<Unit193> Heh, you just get to some of them first.
<Unit193> (That and we pretend we don't see them. :P )
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> problem ricotz just noticed "it seems tumbler is using the wrong thumbails folders which break the native retrieval of the thumbnail-path with gio"
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10613 in General "tumbler generates thumbnails in a location where GLib won't find them" [Normal,Assigned]
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Unit193> Sure.
<Unit193> skellat: I'd presume you saw there was a new apt-offline?
<elfy> hi skellat Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<skellat> Unit193: 5 W's?
<Unit193> 1.5
<skellat> Oooh
<skellat> Did it tumble into testing yet?
<Unit193> 0 of 5.
<skellat> Ah
 * skellat has split attention trying to do online bill payments as well as watch IRC and ponder what is happening in the House of Representatives over his employing agency having funding past October 1st.
<skellat> Unit193: Nothing too major in changelog other than the Debian BTS module
<Unit193> Yep.
<skellat> I wonder if there would be any interest in adding support for LP to that mix
<Unit193> What for?
<skellat> Download LP bugs lists
<bluesabre> Unit193: does this seem like a reasonable request? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8361317/
<bluesabre> (including a mention that these go to ~xubuntu-uploaders and not myself)
<Unit193> bluesabre: This is for you rather than adding to the packageset?  Also, not sure if you want to put it in there or not, but still not sure I get the reasoning if it's not seeded or part of Xubuntu.
<bluesabre> I think packageset is auto-generated based on what we ship
<Unit193> Something like that, yeah.
<bluesabre> The benefit is being able to fix issues with xfce packages that we don't ship, but would need maintenance
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<knome> well, yeah
<knome> i guess a good question would be:
<knome> how many of those packages are maintained upstream?
<Unit193> Properly in Debian or Xfce. :P
<bluesabre> well, its xfce, so probably not many :)
<bluesabre> this request is mainly coming from a few packages affected by the gdmflexiserver bug, and finding a sponsor for a package that affects nobody can be a hassle
<bluesabre> (ofc, wasting time on a bug that doesn't affect our install is another issue altogether)
<Unit193> It's OK, we know you get bored too. ;)
<bluesabre> not often, brainwash is always bugging me with bugs
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Thought about tossing the gmb link at him, those mostly seem dead.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-17
<bluesabre> brainwash: updated my lp handle, so the ppa for lp 1320560 can now be found at https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320560 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Removal of gdmflexiserver breaks user switching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<ochosi> bluesabre: have you seen https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11160 already? guess we need to get that fixed before 14.10 goes final...
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11160 in General "Regression: No suspend on lid close" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> i mean having the fix upstream is not a big deal, we just need to either cherry-pick it for 14.10 or do a 1.4.1 release for xfpm in time
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> was away for a few days, what'd i miss? 
<bluesabre> wb
<bluesabre> didn't miss much, eric did releases, I uploaded
<bluesabre> and now it seems I'm adding a patch for xfpm
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> yeah, sucks a bit that we overlooked that for 1.4
<ochosi> but great that you uploaded xfdesktop and xfpm
<ochosi> saw you were able to close some bugreports with that
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> there might be others too that I overlooked
<ochosi> does the xfdeskop accountsservice patch still need fixing?
<bluesabre> thats fixed (quite a while back)
<ochosi> ah good, i wasn't sure, just saw some mention of it in the backog
<ochosi> backlog
<ochosi> anything else pressing on the agenda?
<bluesabre> hm, might be another bug floating around in there based on the last comment, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11165
<ochosi> (i gotta head to the office now, would be back in 30mins or so, but if there's something that needs immediate attention i can take a quick look now)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11165 in General "Changing workspace don't change login screen" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<bluesabre> nothing immediate to my knowledge
<ochosi> hm right, that sounds like there are some cases where it indeed doesn't work as expected
<ochosi> but nothing too dramatic, luckily
<ochosi> btw, have you tested light-locker1.5 already?
<bluesabre> I haven't
<ochosi> (we can defer that until 14.10 has been released though, since it's not going to happen before 15.04)
<bluesabre> also need to finish my gsettings patch to sit on top of 1.5
<ochosi> mm, yeah, that'd be nice
<ochosi> that'll make 1.6 a really nice release
<ochosi> ok, i'll cycle off now, bbiab
<ochosi> (or would cycle away be more appropriate?)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> back
<ochosi> the 30mins was quite accurate then
<bluesabre> wb, updated xfpm pushed
<ochosi> wow, that was quick
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: thanks for setting the bug status!
<brainwash> bluesabre: changing ppa links.. meh
<brainwash> did you read the latest comment? bug 1320560
<ubottu> bug 1320560 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Removal of gdmflexiserver breaks user switching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<slickymasterWork> np ochosi 
<knome> brainwash, one of the reasons people use PPA's at their own responsilibity... and one of the reasons we have the PPA's that are designed to be higher traffic under the xubuntu-dev team
<brainwash> I don't understand
<brainwash> he changed his lp account handle(?)
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis -> https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre
<brainwash> no big deal actually :)
<knome> brainwash, yes.
<knome> no, it isn't.
<knome> people who used his PPA's... well, they shouldn't have counted on them working forever anyway
<elfy> ind panel crashing again
<ochosi> any debug output?
<elfy> and the window manager
<elfy> not currently - when it does it again I can examine locally and do the gdb thingy - or add stack trace to a bug report 
<elfy> didn't think anyone would be about so just cancelled - which would be best the next time ochosi ?
<ochosi> you can also check the logs
<ochosi> does the whole panel crash or just the indicators?
<Unit193> elfy: Should still have the file in /var/crash/, no?
<elfy> ochosi: just the ind's
<elfy> Unit193: yes I know - but that's just the basic crash report
<Unit193> I'm not getting it right now, but checkrestart says a few things are outdated (just restarted xfdesktop and xfwm to see if I'd start getting it.)
<elfy> rebooting it 
<elfy> ochosi: so I've got crash reports for ind panel and xfwm4 from that
<ochosi> wanna post/paste that somewhere?
<elfy> ochosi: so if I examine locally I can - run gdb session, same without downloading debug symbols or update crash report with fully symbolic stack trace
<elfy> do you want one of those or just the report I have?
<ochosi> let's start with what you have
<ochosi> if that doesn't help at all, we can check gdb
<elfy> ok - well I'll keep them here so can go back 
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> but tbh i'm not very good at debugging with gdb :]
<elfy> sounds like voodoo to me anyway :p
<ochosi> so just to know the context, this indicator crash has just started to appear or has it been around forever in 14.10?
<elfy> I got one the other day - then it was fine, then today got it again - just after I'd updated 
<elfy> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8366127/
<elfy> that's both crash logs - xfwm4 and the ind's
<elfy> line 813 is ind'd
<elfy> 's
<ochosi> is that in a VM?
<elfy> nope - that's this machine
<ochosi> not very conclusive
<ochosi> seems its both segfaults
<Unit193> Seems no -dbg packages, so.
<elfy> ok
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why do we ship evince over evince-gtk?
<brainwash> is evince-gtk something new?
<Unit193> Pretty sure it isn't.
<brainwash> so, it would remove some gnome deps, do we want that?
<Unit193> Why wouldn't we?
<brainwash> did you test it?
<xubuntu92w> hi there, "Numix dark" is available as theme?
<Unit193> brainwash: Switched to it recently because evince got new hard deps, works for what I need.
<Unit193> xubuntu92w: Numix is the one we have.
<xubuntu92w> Unit193: even in the new upcoming release?
<brainwash> don't you have to pay for numix dark?
<Unit193> I believe you do, yeah.
<xubuntu92w> how it's possible suggest to someone to add a dark theme in xfce? maybe numix dark version?!
<xubuntu92w> brainwash: it's like the same package
<xubuntu92w> - like
<brainwash> which package?
<Unit193> brainwash: Do you have a specific objection then?
<xubuntu92w> brainwash: https://launchpad.net/~numix/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/4174259/+listing-archive-extra
<brainwash> Unit193: it conflicts with evince or? this could be a problem
<Unit193> brainwash: Of course it conflicts, it's "the same" package just without gnome deps.  It provides /usr/bin/evince as well, so it'd have to.
<brainwash> so xubu should depend on evince or evince-gtk, but seed the first one
<brainwash> ehm, the second one
<brainwash> :D
<Unit193> Hah, OK.  I was going to ask your reasoning. :P  I agree.
<Unit193> Well, recommend, but same difference.
<brainwash> xubuntu92w: that's numix
<knome> xubuntu92w, xubuntu can not include packages with proprietary software, or any software that requires you to pay a fee to get it
<knome> xubuntu92w, it doesn't matter even if it was available for free somewhere; licensing terms are licensing terms, and we have to obey those
<xubuntu92w> brainwash in the gtk3 folder there is also the dark theme
<xubuntu92w> knome: it's like ardour
<holstein> any developer is always welcome to address licensing, and make a project available to xubuntu/ubuntu
<holstein> xubuntu92w: ardour *is* open source
<xubuntu92w> even numix i suppose
<holstein> even though, they sell a version.. the source is available, and its packaged
<xubuntu92w> exactly
<holstein> xubuntu92w: just check with the creators/maintaners and see if they comply.. its "easier" to get things in debian upstream.. thats where i would start
<knome> as i said, it doesn't grant us including it in the repositories
<xubuntu92w> numix is gpl
<holstein> xubuntu92w: then show them how to get it in debian..
<knome> xubuntu92w, there's no point arguing. we can't include it as it is.
<holstein> if its in debian, it'll just trickle in to ubuntu
<holstein> yeah.. its not the ubuntu repos.. when it is, it can be considered
<holstein> official flavors use the main repos as sources only.. 
<xubuntu92w> ok.. in my "/usr/share/themes/Numix/gtk-3.0/" there's gtk-dark.css
<knome> xubuntu92w, that isn't the dark variant.
<knome> xubuntu92w, the dark variant would have to have it's own directory
<knome> xubuntu92w, the fact that some filename has the string "dark" implies nothing
<xubuntu92w> Knome: well... now i've got it tnx
<knome> if you want to use numix dark, you can pay for it, and use it with the instructions you'll get
<xubuntu92w> knome: tnx; I messed up on the Numix site
<knome> xubuntu92w, sure
<xubuntu92w> knome: the 14.04.1 support the gtk3 themes?
<knome> xubuntu92w, that's a question for the support channel #xubuntu, but yes, we've had gtk3 support in the themes we support for a long time
<xubuntu92w> knome: so why thunar depends on gtk2?
<GridCube> because its a gtk2 application?
<knome> xubuntu92w, please ask on the main support channel, this channel is for development issues
<xubuntu92w> gridcube: so, in the theme folder there are gtk2 and gtk3 instructions for the same theme?!
<GridCube> xubuntu92w, ask knome said, please use the #xubuntu channel
 * drc <action text>Sends the specifed action to all channels which you are currently on.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-18
<Unit193> Oh look, xfce4-equake-plugin 1.3.5 released.
<bluesabre> Unit193: evince vs evince-gtk whats the diff?
<Unit193> Mmm.  Guess you don't know then.  One is more gnome based.
<Unit193> Try installing -gtk and see if you notice any missing functionality?  It'd be for Vapid Vampire anyway.
<bluesabre> Seems identical, I'd have to sit down with it
<bluesabre> good to know that there is probably some distinction though
<elfy> ochosi: what's going with the screensaver times - I've had to resest it to 0 again today
<ochosi> elfy: well you tell me, what *is* going on with them? 
<ochosi> did the xfpm settings change?
<ochosi> or were the displayed values in xfpm settings not the same as in X?
<ochosi> (bottom line: i really need more info...)
<elfy> sorry meant to post this http://pastebin.com/K81VtX1h
<elfy> xset when it blanked, when I'd upped them and then once I'd set them to 0 again
<ochosi> hm, strange, we didn't change anything in the blanking department for a while
<ochosi> elfy: so this happens just sometimes?
 * ochosi wonders whether anyone else has experienced that...
<ochosi> i admit to not having checked the logic of how xfpm sets/resets these times, i just added new functionality (blanking) on top of the existing DPMS support
<ochosi> since there were no bugreports claiming that that doesn't work (and since it seemed to work just fine for me), i'm a bit puzzled by this issue
<elfy> yea - not had it since the last time though which was after update of x-d-s 
<elfy> only odd thing I've done since then and today was play about with saving session and logging into that
<ochosi> the session doesn't remember the values for blanking
<ochosi> which was the main reason to implement this feature in xfpm
<elfy> no idea then
<ochosi> but i've heard that there are some bugs with session management
<ochosi> so it might be related to that
<ochosi> did you check what values xfpm displayed in its settings when you experienced the blanking?
<ochosi> (just to know whether it was reset to its own defaults or whether it was simply out of sync with the X11 settings)
<elfy> unless updates to power manager and/or data are doing it - had updates to data yesterday
<ochosi> that was just a tiny patch to fix lid-close suspending
<elfy> I did check - xfpm was reporting what I had set it for - 0 all across the board
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> in that case it was out of sync with X11, because the session management or something else tampered with those settings
<ochosi> which is a known issue in 1.4, unfortunately
<elfy> ochosi: yes - but if it is resetting things to 'default' regardless of what got fixed
<ochosi> haven't had time to check that yet, it's unfortunately more complicated to fix than it sounds...
<elfy> ok - well if I see it again I'll try and take more notice of what's going on at around the same time
<ochosi> thanks, that'd be great
<ochosi> i'd really like to get this sorted
<elfy> you and me both - when it catches me unawares it's usually just at the wrong time :p
<ochosi> heh, yeah :)
 * ochosi wonders what the right time would be
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<brainwash> bluesabre: just noticed something related to "Black screen on resume in Xubuntu 14.04.1"
<brainwash> from the report: "Black screen on resume when using standby on close lid is confirmed on Dell Latitude D400 on completely new install of Xubuntu 14.04.1 32 bit."
<brainwash> now take a look at bug 1254131
<ubottu> bug 1254131 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Dell Latitude D505] Lubuntu suspend via lid close causes freeze" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254131
<brainwash> Dell Latitude in both cases
<brainwash> appears to be the exact same problem
<brainwash> black screen + mouse cursor visible and system completely frozen
<brainwash> bluesabre: should we backport the fixes for bug 1347272 to trusty?
<ubottu> bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347272
<brainwash> Noskcaj: ^
<brainwash> "Nominated for Lucid" :D
<brainwash> Noskcaj: do you keep an eye on this meta report?
<pleia2> elfy: I shall tweet
<elfy> pleia2: thanks :)
<elfy> it's an early warning ;)
<elfy> probably as pointless as the last one - but as long as I've done what I can *shrug*
<pleia2> I appreciate it, I'm conferencing again next week, but it's local so I can download things and make time, now I won't forget!
<ochosi> +1
<elfy> ty pleia2 :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, not really, but i can
<brainwash> Noskcaj: the fixes will land at some point in ubuntu, but I'm not sure if sru'ing them is really necessary
<brainwash> too much paper work :/
<Noskcaj> I'd not worry about an SRU unless we get a bunch of crash bug reports
<brainwash> like over 1000 bug heat? :>
<brainwash> it is sru worthy
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> then as long as the fix works in utopic, we should backport it
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, the list of things to backport is growing
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> about to go to bed
<ochosi> how're things?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Timed out 10 minutes before you said that.
<bluesabre> things are good
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-19
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork, please join #ubuntu-release
<elfy> thanks bluesabre - saved me that job :)
<slickymasterWork> motning guys
<bluesabre> morning
<slickymasterWork> I'm there bluesabre 
<bluesabre> getting ready to head out...
<bluesabre> looks like we don't need your ack it turns out
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> but stick around because you'll probably get another ping later
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll have a work meeting in about 25 minutes
<bluesabre> ok, np
<elfy> I did think that 2 release team should be sufficient - but scottk probably doesn't know we are that
<slickymasterWork> but I'll be available after lunch
<elfy> slickymasterWork: it's ok now - 2 uife's -= wallpaper and default settings wanting approval in -release
<elfy> he mentioned docs so bluesabre pinged you :)
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> this morning has been a mess over here, but I'm thinking that the afternoon shall be a completely different beast
<elfy> well I hope so :)
<slickymasterWork> me too elfy :P
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<slickymasterWork> hf bluesabre 
<elfy> cya bluesabre 
<brainwash> should we bug #ubuntu-desktop with bug 1246364 ?
<ubottu> bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246364
<brainwash> there is a restore_tray_icon.patch
<brainwash> not sure if both sides (update-notifier maintainers and xubu team) are interested in restoring the old functionality
<dkessel> heya
<Unit193> brainwash: Has to be better than what we get now.
<brainwash> Unit193: is a tray icon better than a popup window?
<dkessel> hmm this is what i see after installation with the current daily iso (applied all available updates during installation): https://imgur.com/Ka8gdX5
<dkessel> i got a black screen, and after switching to vt1 and back to vt7 this is what i get :/ is that already known?
<Unit193> brainwash: Popup window is so bad it's disabled from startup now.
<brainwash> Unit193: ok, maybe it's bad, but it has been this way in 13.10, 14.04 and now also in 14.10
<brainwash> so it's the new "default"
<Unit193> I don't remember it being as bad even in the last release, but it's nevertheless not my favorite.
<brainwash> so it's worth to get the patch in
<drc> #xubuntu
<Unit193> Not sure what others think though.
<brainwash> making it optional would a step forward :)
<dkessel> elfy: fyi installation from daily iso seems broken: bug 1371651
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "xubuntu does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<Unit193> Hrm, uh oh.
<elfy> not looked today
<elfy> dkessel: hardware or virtual ?
<dkessel> elfy: virtualbox 4.3.16
<elfy> ta
<dkessel> is it too late to continue translating the desktop-guide for utopic? i see "documentation string freeze" is in effect
<knome> dkessel, no, that doesn't mean translations
<dkessel> knome: oh fine
<knome> dkessel, that means that from now on, all the translatable strings should be unchanged
<dkessel> ahh great
<knome> except that's not completely true because we're about a land a change for like 5 strigns :P
<dkessel> knome: what is the package for the installation slideshow translations btw? ;)
<knome> dkessel, ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<elfy> don't try and translate strigns though 
<knome> nope :P
<elfy> :)
<dkessel> ?
<dkessel> too early for that? :)
<elfy> strigns - always
<elfy> or too late
<Unit193> knome: Did you get the IRC link fixed in the slid?
<Unit193> +e
<knome> Unit193, it's in trunk waiting for an upload
<elfy> dkessel: confirmed that
<elfy> why would it even be wondering about sensors?
<elfy> zsyncing ubuntu - let's hope it's the same there 
<elfy> and it is the same there
<pleia2> knome: so, what do you think about the donate page name? :D
<elfy> dkessel: vm bug it seems 
<elfy> again
<dkessel> elfy: too bad, that stops people from testing again...
<elfy> dkessel: well balloons knows now, see what happens between now and Monday :)
<elfy> it broke between yesterday and today after all 
<knome> pleia2, hrr hrr
<knome> pleia2, what if we made the pagename "Donate" and the slug "donations"
<knome> pleia2, that way the slug isn't stupid, and we can easily change the page name later
<knome> pleia2, or sth..
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> knome: want to do it and publish now?
<knome> pleia2, worksforme... shall i?
<pleia2> do it
<pleia2> :)
<knome> ok, just a sec
<pleia2> then I'll social media the bounty thing, with the donations url in my pocket for anyone who asks
<knome> drop it under "community" in the menu?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> where?
<knome> last one?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> done
<pleia2> ty \o/
<knome> np
<elfy> dkessel: lightdm bug it is -> service lightdm start
<dkessel> elfy: sounds like it is half solved already ;)
<pleia2> there, social mediaed the bounty source thing
<bluesabre> such a social mediaer
<slickymaster> great pleia2, kudos
 * pleia2 waits for the money to pour in
<knome> haha
<slickymaster> I've been doing that to no avail since I can remember pleia2 
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> being snarky today, are we
<Unit193> Someone from the Xubuntu team being snarky?  Nah.
<bluesabre> None of us, for sure.
<knome> not in a million years
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could the new gmusicbrowser go in one of the ~xubuntu-dev ppas?
<Noskcaj> We should try and support all the xubuntu apps rather than just the xfce ones in the PPAs
<Unit193> Noskcaj: It's in ~shimmer at least.
<Noskcaj> thanks Unit193, i hadn't noticed that one.
<Unit193> And no difference between that one and Debian's.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-21
<elfy> dailies still broken in vbox 
<elfy> boring
<brainwash> xubuntu only?
<brainwash> I see
<brainwash> bug 1371651
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<sergio-br2> hey
<sergio-br2> hello
<sergio-br2> Is blueman in 14.04 compatible with bluez 5.23?
<brainwash> sergio-br2: no, see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754973
<ubottu> Debian bug 754973 in blueman "bluez 5.21-1 breaks blueman 1.23-git20140626133" [Normal,Fixed]
<sergio-br2> normal, fixed ?
<brainwash> fixed in debian
<sergio-br2> so, probably ubuntu 15.04 will have bluez 5 and blueman fixed?
<brainwash> most likely
<sergio-br2> are there any way to install debian blueman + bluez 5.23 without mess the system?
<brainwash> you can test it, simply install the packages or rebuild them for ubuntu
<sergio-br2> it seems it change gtk2 to gtk3
<columbusgate1492> hello
<columbusgate1492> i have this mouse: http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-naga-epic
<columbusgate1492> it has a whole bunch of features that require the windows driver for it
<columbusgate1492> i've reverse-engineered the driver
<columbusgate1492> but i have never written a linux driver
<columbusgate1492> actually, i've never written a driver period
<pleia2> I think you'd be better off finding a linux kernel devel channel, we don't write drivers here :)
<columbusgate1492> oh okay 
<columbusgate1492> could you point me in the right direction?
<pleia2> I don't actually know
<columbusgate1492> i think i found one
<knome> i guess #ubuntu-kernel but they could point you to other channels..
<Noskcaj> columbusgate1492, There's a few linux drivers already
<columbusgate1492> for the naga?
<Noskcaj> http://bues.ch/cms/hacking/razercfg.html
<Noskcaj> or if that fails, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1181482
<columbusgate1492> damn, macros arent supported
<columbusgate1492> thank god i didnt actually reverse engineer the windows driver
<columbusgate1492> i actually found a leaked linker address map that razer gave to a third party on accident
<columbusgate1492> the third party had no idea what it was and uploaded it with the driver package two years ago
<columbusgate1492> kind of a funny story imo
<elfy> image still borked for vbox
<elfy> not looking very useful for beta testing ... 
<bluesabre> surprised that issues has dragged on this long
<bluesabre> -s
<elfy> this issue only resurfaced friday late
<bluesabre> ah
<elfy> at least it is mainbuntu as well :)
<bluesabre> yay, (probably) not our fault
<elfy> I've not looked at anything but us and ubuntu - but it's affecting lubuntu and I would guess the rest
<elfy> maybe not kubuntu
<elfy> anyway - I've had enough of Sunday - cya all tomorrow :)
<elfy> piskie is back if necessary
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you please upload catfish in debian rather than ubuntu in future, it's a needless duplication of work currently
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: was going to do debian next.  With beta freeze tomorrow, can't be certain that it will land in debian early enough to sync
<bluesabre> I see that you beat me to it though, so thanks
<Noskcaj> no problem, i hadn't realised the freeze was that close.
<bluesabre> re: geary, the new version is pretty nice, been testing it today... only issue is that it brings along headerbars, which are lame
<bluesabre> though, suppose thats not really a xubuntu thing :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-14
<flocculant> knome: so when is being able to see the b/p on the front page of the tracker coming back
<flocculant> details is nice though :)
<knome> flocculant, go to the details page and select a blueprint from the dropdown
<knome> flocculant, or if you want to see it in a similar format as "all expanded", click on the specification column header to sort the table by column
<knome> flocculant, i plan a few more improvements to the page (eg. i'm thinking to allow you to get a permalink to the page with any filter you've set)
<knome> flocculant, then as i'm implementing new, better looking input stuff, i'm going to implement cleaning any filter with one click (eg. no need to select the first item in the dropdown or delete the text)
<knome> flocculant, and after those two changes, i *might* add a filter for status
<knome> but definitely not before that, too hard :P
<knome> (not really, but it will be much saner then as i'm improving the code as i go)
<flocculant> knome: so the front page is nothing more than a list now? 
<flocculant> I used the front page more than any of the others :(
<knome> flocculant, basically yes
<flocculant> :(
<knome> and i'm sorry for the changes, but the details page is now able to give you that in a much better form
<flocculant> too much clicking involved to get to things now 
<knome> well as i said, i plan to be able to give out permalinks
<flocculant> not going to be the same the way I used it
<flocculant> nvm 
<knome> why?
<flocculant> because I'd need a bunch of permalinks
<knome> i mean if you can get the same data minus the headers with one link...
<flocculant> as it stands people need to wade through stuff OR filter stuff 
<flocculant> previously could just click on something in overview to see basics
<flocculant> suggest you rename overview to list - because it's not an overview anymore ;)
<knome> oh, the improved filters will reduce the amount of clicks
<knome> because hey will instantly drop down
<knome> *they
<knome> if that helps at all..
<flocculant> doesn't really replace the simple method
<knome> well, no, but then the click amount needed is the same
<knome> one per each blueprint
<flocculant> it replaces a single click with a load of clicks and possibly typing as well
<knome> or to see all, one (clicking the spec column header)
<knome> i don't understand how - please explain
<knome> or maybe better - tell me how you perused the overview table
<flocculant> previously if I wanted to see dev b/p I clicked it on front page - now click something, then scroll down, then click again
<knome> so currently, you just select the dev blueprint from the dropdown
<knome> that's two click instead of one - i know - but in the future, it'll be one
<knome> because the dropdown will not need the first click to open
<knome> OR you can click on one of the links in the spec column to show only that spec
<flocculant> I don't understand why you removed the click option from the front page 
<flocculant> it was simple
<knome> not on the backend
<flocculant> but whatever - not going to say anymore about it 
<knome> i needed to maintain a bunch of if's etc
<knome> please... i don't see this as my way vs. your way at all
<flocculant> :)
<knome> it's changed, sure, but i want to make it as useful to everybody
<knome> and of course it's still not perfect
<knome> so please guide me to make it as useful as possible
<knome> that's why i'm asking and telling you
<flocculant> well - currently it's too complicated for my use
<knome> when you click on the spec column header
<flocculant> and if the nice way meant loads of backend hassle then that's ok - I'll not use tracker as much as I used to 
<knome> is that list at all close to what you'd like to see?
<flocculant> knome: not really - too detailed
<knome> because that's basically the "expand" all view without the headers
<flocculant> what I used often was overview 
<knome> ok, so would this help:
<knome> in the overview tab, i added a link to the details tab, where you'd only see items in that spec?
<flocculant> not really 
<knome> becayse?
<knome> s/y/u/
<SwissBot> knome meant: "because?"
<knome> silly bot..
<flocculant> the whiteboard is still going to be missing
<knome> ah, the whiteboard
<knome> as you see, it's not implemented yet ;)
<flocculant> the front page was really useful exactly as it was 
<flocculant> at least to me
<knome> ok, i'll think about it
<flocculant> wading through detail and clicking and typing stuff in details is just extra work 
<knome> maybe i can pull stuff with js there
<knome> well you don't have to type anything unless you want to :)
<flocculant> don't get me wrong - it's better than before we had it :)
<flocculant> perhaps detail would be more useful to me if it didn't have all the struckthrough stuff
<flocculant> as it is - it's just too much words :)
<knome> heh, i can see that...
<knome> maybe i'll come up with something.
<flocculant> well I'd nto want you to spend time on just my account ofc
<knome> nah, it's fine
<knome> be assured, i won't put any time into it i can't
<flocculant> lol
<knome> but if i can, i likely will
<knome> so - you're not taking away any time from anything else
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: bunch of 'exo' updates here just fyi
<bluesabre> flocculant: yup, new bugfix release (with 1 bugfix)
<flocculant> yep - saw some chatter 
<bluesabre> flocculant: the bigger one is the new exo package that should land sometime soon
<bluesabre> and is in -staging
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess I've got that then :D
<flocculant> cos I've 'just' updated ... 
<drc> The daily's useful today?
<flocculant> useful to see if it works yet
<flocculant> not useful for anything but that :p
 * drc has a shotgun....
<flocculant> though you can run the installer once you get past the try/install dialogue if you want to 
<flocculant> I've just critical failed today's build 
<drc> no thanks :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> hopefully (fingers crossed) we'll have autotesting up soon - and then we'll get that on our tracker somewhere 
<flocculant> be easy for people to check :)
<drc> Would be nice...b2's comming up soonish.
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> seems the issue is something to do with Network Manager 
<drc> huh...wonder if it's related to whatever makes Network Monitor plugin not work?
<flocculant> if that's a general issue - possible
<flocculant> if it's just an issue for us - perhaps not, the image boot fail is *buntu wide
<drc> don't know if it's "general"...it didn't wotk for me, and did/did-not work for you (iirc)
<drc> ah, that's what you meant
<dkessel> knome: oh, regarding auto image tests: i believe the blocking bug in ubiquity has been fixed. but i am not sure what the progress is on running a jenkins server and reporting the results. i'll ask in -quality. my irc bouncer has been really unreliable lately
<flocculant> dkessel: I've been following :)
<dkessel> ah, okay :)
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=6caed779e627c368e2d3e578d1fad60cd7ef1d18
<Unit193> bluesabre, ochosi: So I pinged you in -devel, please read backlog a little (it is short!)  krytarik and I are in favor of keeping as-is.
<knome> http://i.imgur.com/FzqUcRZ.png
<Unit193> knome: And, read -devel for any core updates from me. :P
<knome> this is devel?
<knome> are you hallucinating?
<Unit193> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/14/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t19:44
<knome> minimal is also minimal ISO
<knome> lite is meh
<Unit193> Which I noticed, yes.
<knome> xubuntu core is the best of the three alternatives suggested there
<flocculant> Unit193: I see you got that package set uploading thingy sorted :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes sir!
<flocculant> congrats 
<knome> !conga-rats
<ubottu> â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<Unit193> Surprisingly, went very smoothly!
<Unit193> flocculant: Thanks.
<flocculant> I just read that :)
<knome> i think it might be time for the daily "break the tracker" task again
<flocculant> knome: was thinking a bit more about that 
<knome> flocculant, aha? :)
<flocculant> I still think I'm right :D
<ochosi> evening
<knome> hahah
<knome> ok...
<flocculant> nah 
<knome> ochosi, ping-a-ling
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<knome> ok, here goes
<knome> all or nothing
<knome> oh sigh
<ochosi> nothing?
<knome> yeah, i guess...
<flocculant> well it wouldn't be if the front page wasn't just a list :D
<ochosi> Unit193: congrats!
<Unit193> Thanks, ochosi!
<ochosi> Unit193: and re: core, i think we already discussed this the first time infinity (or someone else?) brought up that concern but i still think it doesn't really matter that much
<ochosi> so i'm fine with keeping as-is
<ochosi> knome: nice filters and all, but they don't work atm, right?
<knome> ok, here we go
<knome> they should work *now*
<knome> just do a hard refresh
<knome> i just changed them to new ones
<ochosi> humm, still no worky here after hard refresh
<knome> filters from url do not work ATM
<knome> ochosi, you weirdy
<knome> :P
<knome> chrome?
<ochosi> or maybe i don't know what i'm doing
<ochosi> no, ff
<ochosi> and noscript etc disabled
<knome> aha
<knome> well clearly they work for me
<knome> so what do you see?
<knome> oh
<knome> hmm
<knome> ochosi, try now..?
<knome> and yeah, the filters from the table do not work either right now
<ochosi> right, thats better :>
<knome> will need to fix that next
<ochosi> the "x" is a bit hard to see, but other than that it's all awesome!
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> flocculant, see, better dropdowns?
<ochosi> Unit193: shouldn't you set a certain workitem in community-bp as fixed?
<Unit193> Oh.
<flocculant> really don't see the need to have 'done' things on there 
<flocculant> knome: ^^ 
<knome> flocculant, ack, let's see what i come up with later :P
<flocculant> that said - if the overview was how it used to be - then I'd not care what details was like ;)
<flocculant> more and more complexity doesn't always work 
<flocculant> I'm off now anyway - night all 
<knome> nighty
<knome> ochosi, assignee links from table work now
<knome> ochosi, also, did you acknowledge you can sort by column by clicking the header?
<knome> ochosi, spec links from table work now as well
<knome> heh, ok, the text filter stopped working now
<knome> i've had this before, and i think why...
<knome> hah, nope, but it was a trivial fix
<knome> works now
<knome> better refer to the correct ID
<ochosi> nice sorting
<ochosi> btw, not complaining or anything, but reloading the page resets the filter because it's not in the URL
<ochosi> or is that by design?
<knome> it's by design for now
<knome> 00:01  knome: filters from url do not work ATM
<knome> i will redo that so you can save any filter state to a bookmark
<knome> but only manually, i won't be changing the url on every event
<knome> that should give you enough flexibility anyway
<knome> (i will basically craft you a link that changes on every event)
<ochosi> yeah, that's more than enough
<ochosi> would even be fine as is
<knome> yeah well,
<knome> i need some urls for the email reminders
<ochosi> actually i've stopped going to LP or the website since you started the tracker ;p
<knome> well, that's good i think...
<knome> oh btw
<knome> "back" and "forward" work now
<knome> as they should
<knome> i'm pushing states to the browser history
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> cool
<knome> what do you think of the new overview page then?
<knome> obviously the whiteboard link doesn't work for now
<knome> but otherwise
<knome> do you miss the work item lists in there?
<ochosi> i was wondering whether clicking the bp title shouldnt take you to the corresponding bp filter on the details page
<ochosi> (and yeah, i miss them a little)
<knome> yeah, i'll likely do that
<ochosi> gotta head to bed, night all!
<ochosi> bluesabre: and kudos to all the dev work you got done lately! sorry for being so consumed by RL...
<knome> ochosi, http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/a:ochosi
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> Unit193: congrats!
<Unit193> Thanks, bluesabre.  Looks like you better hurry up and get MOTU! ;)
<knome> haha
<Unit193> Thought you said they asked a bunch of questions about procedure and all, though.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, getting ready to get started on that shortly
<bluesabre> Unit193: they wanted to keep it away from me most likely
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: what kinda questions did you get?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Basically, some examples about what I was most proud of, and one asked another the policy on not using real names.
<bluesabre> Unit193: Unit193 isn't your real name? :o
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nope, "Unit 193" is.
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> tricksy
<Unit193> They somehow doubt that's on my drivers license though.
<drc> Digital camera+gimp+printer says it is.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> gotta run for now, bbabl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why I no have descriptions still!?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-15
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh?
<Unit193> apt-cache show foo
<Unit193> cyphermox: ...Do you seriously know Klingon?
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> ttyl
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<bluesabre> Unit193: now you are closer to fixing it though
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Why?  I dun did nothin'.
<cyphermox> Unit193: HIja'
<Unit193> Well then, fancy fancy...
<flocculant> morning 
<knome> slickymasterWork, did you see my message about your work item?
<slickymasterWork> yes, both in the blueprint and in the tracker
<slickymasterWork> but I'm thinking that we'll end up postponing it
<knome> well i proposed you should probably close it with "DONE"
<knome> and add a new item for w+1
<knome> for following up and executing
<knome> because we have done work this cycle it would be silly not to acknowledge it (and give credit)
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> but there's still no blueprint for w+1 as far as I know
<knome> you can create one now
<knome> xubuntu-x-docs
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll take care of it
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> and as always, feel free to ping me if you need help
<knome> or want a comment or anything
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, I know
<slickymasterWork> I'll do it after lunch
<knome> bon appetit :)
<slickymasterWork> to you too, if you haven't had lunch yet
<knome> yes and no
<knome> i think i need take 2
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> or alternatively, coffee with something a bit more substantial to go with it
<slickymasterWork> you're indeed a person of much sustenance knome :)
<knome> lol
<knome> says the one who eats so much meat stew after midnight that he can't go sleep before 3-4am
<jjfrv8> flocculant, looks like today's build is still a dud :(
<knome> boo
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks
<flocculant> knome: another use case that's no longer possible - open a b/p on overview, then without closing open another one
<knome> flocculant, will be soon
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> flocculant, for your other request... you can now filter statuses: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details
<slickymasterWork> knome, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+spec/xubuntu-x-docs
<knome> slickymasterWork, nice :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, did you look at the improved filtering options yet?
<knome> oh hmm
<knome> moved it to ubuntu
<knome> team, created https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-x-xubuntu for planning preparations
<slickymasterWork> !team | ^^
<ubottu> ^^: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<slickymasterWork> yes, I did knome, if you're referring to #tab-details
<knome> slickymasterWork, i would have done that, but ubottu doesn't support putting urls in factoid calls
<knome> what else? :D
 * slickymasterWork blames Unit193 for that
<knome> of course...
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, doc freeze is two days away~
<knome> yes
<knome> i was about to ask whether there is something we need to change
<knome> or if you are happy with everything
<slickymasterWork> is everything ok on the fi side of things?
<knome> the doc string freeze doesn't mean translations
<knome> it means that the source doc strings should be in order in 2 days
<slickymasterWork> just a minute knome 
<knome> translators should technically start their work after that
<knome> the latest slideshow stuff is uploaded
<knome> so we will only need one more upload after the translation freeze
<knome> the docs do not need an upload now, also only after the translation freeze
<knome> non-language pack trnaslation deadline: october 8
<knome> language pack translation deadline: october 15
<knome> technically, the former applies to both the slideshow and the docs
<knome> but practically, as long as we know bluesabre is here to upload, we can wait with the docs until the latter
<knome> and i would imagine people want as many translations of the slideshow in as possible, so it might mean that'll have an upload after oct 8 too - but we shouldn't count on that
<slickymasterWork> sorry knome 
<slickymasterWork> yes, I know all that
<slickymasterWork> when I said the fi side of things, I was referring to you, specifically :P 
 * slickymasterWork arrives to the conclusion that is sense of humor doesn't seems to collect many fans in -devel
<knome> well this is -devel...
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> from the top of my head, there's nothing I'd chnage knome 
<slickymasterWork> do you see something that we potentially need to fiddle with? 
<knome> no
<knome> the changes are boring, but this isn't an LTS, so they don't need to be overly exciting
<slickymasterWork> my thought's, exactly 
<flocculant> knome: ty 
<flocculant> now - what's the point in having overview ;)
<flocculant> could not the progress bars be added to burndown? 
<knome> flocculant, it could be one tab with all of that data, yeah
<flocculant> just a thought :)
<knome> i've been thinking that as well
<knome> probably needs some minor tweaks
<flocculant> well you'd not need the total - that's the burndown
<knome> i guess
<flocculant> mmm you'd lose the ability to at least get to the LP b/p though 
<flocculant> at least as it stands now
<flocculant> knome: why was Community funded hosting for the status tracker postponed? is it not IS ? 
 * flocculant thought it was now
<knome> flocculant, it's now in the same server with ubuntu-us.org
<knome> flocculant, we'll likely want to have another at some point so we can peruse it more, for example for a xubuntu-specific wiki
<pleia2> if someone else can take my meeting chair job this time around, it may be best
<pleia2> have a lot going on with work, family, etc
<flocculant> ok knome 
<flocculant> just a question :)
<flocculant> pleia2: Unit193 is next, followed by bluesabre :)
<pleia2> yeah, or we can just skip me
<pleia2> I'm sorry
<flocculant> yea - those 2 are next :)
<flocculant> and no need to apologise :)
<flocculant> might be useful to try and get one in before next week's Beta 
<flocculant> if they can't I dare say someone would be able to 
<flocculant> if neither can - knome is next or I will :)
<knome> when i know of my monday/tuesday plans, i can schedule/chair the meeting if nobody else has done it before that
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> I'll see what gets said overnight 
<flocculant> though while it's be nice to meeting prior to final beta - doubt that meeting would make much difference to that 
<knome> yep, probably not
<flocculant> aah 
<flocculant> thought the new kernel would turn up today 
<flocculant> kernel meeting day :)
<ochosi> knome: wth, already planning for 16.04? :)
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: if needed, can do one late this week so we can knock out anything needed over the weekend
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-16
<Unit193> http://bugs.debian.org/798912 - http://mentors.debian.net/package/libmpris2client
<ubottu> Debian bug 798912 in wnpp "ITP: libmpris2client -- Library to control mpris2 compatible players" [Wishlist,Open]
<knome> ochosi, hah, well, mostly moving postponed items there, or items that have raised up from items this cycle but aren't realistic now
<knome> bluesabre, that works for me, though if it's tomorrow, then it's bad :P
<knome> and friday is badish as well..
<knome> and saturday or sunday might be just as bad
<knome> but i'll try to be there!
<bluesabre> knome: so... that leaves thursday then?
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> today is wednesday
<bluesabre> Unit193: pin
<bluesabre> g
 * Unit193 pins bluesabre up on the board.
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> I think
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> want your opinion...
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.1
<bluesabre> would you agree that this new version would not need a freeze exception for feature freeze or UI freeze?
<bluesabre> since it has no new features or changes the UI
<bluesabre> only adds templates and fixes bugs
<Unit193> Templates could be seen as a new feature.  Is the template system new, or just "hey, now we ship files it already supported!"?
<bluesabre> it was already there, just no preinstalled templates
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.0
<Unit193> Alright, I'd personally think that'd be fine then, since it's not a new feature to break.  If you did go for FFe, would think it'd be quick and painless though.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> just hard to write the FFe (any new features?? well nothing really)
<bluesabre> thanks for your opinion! :D
<Unit193> Hah, sure.
<knome> bluesabre, lol... yeah, it kind of only leaves sat OR sun, but i don't know which yet
<knome> bluesabre, i have the sameish with mon/tue, i don't know which one doesn't work for me yet
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks for confirming that shutdown hang :)
<drc> flocculant: Shutdown works on (my) hardware.
<flocculant> yep - thanks - confirms my suspicion - virtual issue again ;)
<drc> Nope, got rid of it the last time Canonical really ticked me off a while ago..
<drc> That's why I couldn't report the Network Monitor thingie.
<flocculant> ok - would have been useful to get a good report on the tracker 
<flocculant> bluesabre knome: perhaps not worry about knocking a meeting out quickly just because beta
<flocculant> I'd mail the two groups anyway on Monday - possibly also users this time 
<knome> mhm
<knome> as i said, i can do one either or monday or tuesday - i just don't know which yet..
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I'm easy - other than beta I've nto got anything to bring up 
<knome> me neither really
<knome> and since we plan not to do the team updates..
<knome> well, maybe that's one
<knome> kick off the voting for that
<flocculant> not sure if I'd said the tracker multiple team things was working out ok or not - but it is for me :)
<knome> heh, good :)
<flocculant> yea perhaps - or just take it to m/l straight away 
<knome> i will make sure you can link to any filter state you want
<flocculant> voting always ends up on m/l anyway 
<knome> well actually, you can already, but you need to construct the url manually
<flocculant> yep - that might help
<knome> the syntax is:
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/[filters]
<flocculant> knome: probably not going to do that 
<knome> where [filters] is one (or more of):
<knome> a=assigneenick
<knome> text=search
<flocculant> I'd have so many different bookmarks I'd end up ignoring them :)
<knome> s=specificationname
<knome> if you specify multiple assignees, separate by comma
<knome> eg. a=knome,flocculant
<flocculant> right
<knome> and if you specify multiple filters, specify by +
<knome> eg. a=flocculant+text=qa
<knome> but yeah, i'll make sure you will always have a link to the current filter sooner or later
<knome> statuses aren't filtered yet... or sort
<flocculant> the thing is - that almost all other bp's are ones that I would look at together at some point - all impact on qa in some way
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> or rather be things that qa needs to know 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> just not all at the same time :)
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah
<knome> it's possible i'll reintroduce the work item stuff in the overview in a way or another
<knome> but that's in the bottom of the list tbh
<knome> maybe something that shows open items quickly
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I'm not convinced it's need now really 
<knome> yeah - what did i tell you :)
<flocculant> well 
<knome> i wanted to merge it and the details tab from the moment i split them up...
<flocculant> well
<knome> :D
<flocculant> you told me things after I'd told you it was just a pita to me now ;)
<knome> haivng hard time acknowledging i was right? ;)
<knome> *having too
<knome> hahah, those things were on the works already then
<knome> i wouldn't have done a dumbed down details page
<flocculant> having a hard time working out why you'd think I have suddenly acquired esp :D
<knome> or something that didn't replace the features in overview
<knome> esp?
<flocculant> extra sensory perception 
<knome> hah
<flocculant> ie mind reading ... 
<flocculant> :D
<knome> mm..
<flocculant> pleia2: funnily enough I was thinking along those lines too "it looks like a great initiative that may be valuable enough to be replicated by the flavors"
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> great minds, sir
<flocculant> :)
<knome> what?
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-community-team/2015-September/000813.html
<pleia2> the Unity desktop team is doing a series of Bug Bonanzas leading up to 16.04
<pleia2> they have it very nicely organized :)
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> the only obvious difference being we'd have 2 or 3 people arrive to help ;)
<knome> haha
<knome> instead of 4 or 5 for ubuntu
<pleia2> haha, now now :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> pleia2, well it's the truth... :P
<flocculant> well - me out for the day now - night all
<pleia2> night flocculant 
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> ok everybody, you can now get a permalink to any of the pages
<knome> err, to any filters
<knome> see the permalink button there
<knome> (it'll appear when you add filters)
<knome> it doesn't save sort - yet
<knome> ok, sort is saved and applied now as well
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-17
<flocculant> morning
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> with doc freeze today - we got updates for our docs? 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: ^^
<flocculant> nvm - stopped being lazy and went to look :)
<flocculant> quick comment on that stuff - restricted drivers, why do we tell people all that usc-edit-software sources and settings manager - software/updates 
<flocculant> when people just need to type additional or less in menu text box and open additional drivers from there? 
<flocculant> and I assume there's an easy way to read the docs rather than the xml files 
<krytarik> flocculant: I'm usually using this, ftm: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/docs/
<flocculant> krytarik: is that wily? 
<krytarik> Yep - look at the revision number. :)
<flocculant> hah
<krytarik> Or the version up top. LOL
<flocculant> the revision number means zilch if you don't know where it is now :D
<flocculant> wily could be 752 ... 
<krytarik> Yep.
<flocculant> anyway - assume it is - has LO in it :p
<krytarik> "Welcome to Xubuntu 15.10 Documentation!" :P
<slickymasterWork> flocculant: we now, do have the pdf's
<flocculant> I tried building it - just got a bunch of recipe errors - whatever they are 
<krytarik> flocculant: Probably missing build depends.
<flocculant> krytarik: ha ha ha - I never read the 'you need these tools' bits of manuals either :)
<flocculant> krytarik: yea - was my assumption - so just 'read' the xml 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: yea - I have seen those discussions ongoing 
<flocculant> and hi :)
<krytarik> flocculant: Or just build the HTML version, for example.
<slickymasterWork> flocculant: check if you have coreutils (>= 8.16),  debhelper (>= 9),  docbook-xml,  docbook-xsl, fonts-droid, fop, gnome-doc-utils and xsltproc
<slickymasterWork> you'll need them to build the -docs
<slickymasterWork> and also hi ;)
<slickymasterWork> and krytarik, of course
<krytarik> Hah, yeah, you too. :D
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: didn't have some 
<flocculant> I'd pieced together some things from the docs team wiki
<slickymasterWork> there you have it. That's why you were'nt being able to build it
<flocculant> doing more this time - building pdf's :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<flocculant> though bit late this cycle to be looking ;)
 * slickymasterWork smiles
<flocculant> if you're really unlucky I might next cycle :p
<slickymasterWork> hah
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: all that aside - did you see comment re restricted drivers? 
<slickymasterWork> was reading it now
<slickymasterWork> now I lost them
<slickymasterWork> will have to wait until http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/17/%23xubuntu-devel.html catch up
<flocculant> <flocculant> quick comment on that stuff - restricted drivers, why do we tell people all that usc-edit-software sources and settings manager - software/updates 
<flocculant> <flocculant> when people just need to type additional or less in menu text box and open additional drivers from there? 
<flocculant> or not :)
<flocculant> something to ponder in a month or two :)
<slickymasterWork> well, that section is prior to menulibre, I think that's the reason
<slickymasterWork> I'll put that correction on my todo list
<flocculant> just a thought
<flocculant> less to read :)
<slickymasterWork> not so much a correction but some additional info on that
<slickymasterWork> stop being so lazy :P
<flocculant> ha ha 
 * slickymasterWork is the same, tbh
<flocculant> also - quick lesson in searching menulibre 
<flocculant> two birds with one stone - even lazier \o/
<slickymasterWork> yeah, kind of killing two rabbits with one stone
<flocculant> much better - more meat 
<flocculant> unless it's a really bug stone 
 * slickymasterWork was convinced that in en the old saying was with rabbits, not with birds
<flocculant> s/bug/big
<flocculant> well - we are different nationalties 
<slickymasterWork> in pt, it's with birds
<flocculant> it is here too 
<slickymasterWork> my mistake then
<krytarik> flocculant: Ftm, if you want to fix something, look at the intro on the startpage. :)
<flocculant> and which page is that 
<flocculant> the one with 15.10 on it? 
<krytarik> Yep.
<flocculant> bah 
<flocculant> why does that say to ... 
<flocculant> provides information to the most
<slickymasterWork> that paragraph has been there since (slighted altered) since I remember flocculant 
<flocculant> let's change that before 16.04 then :)
<slickymasterWork> it has been change in 15.04, or 14.10 iirc
<flocculant> I could have sworn knome and I were looking at something like that recentlyish
<flocculant> might have been slideshow ... 
<slickymasterWork> maybe
<flocculant> mmm
<slickymasterWork> what about it do you disagree?
<krytarik> flocculant: That was here: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/docs/C/index.html
<flocculant> aaah yes 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: to needs to be on at the least
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but that relates to the copyright stuff
<flocculant> not sure we're talking about the same thing 
<slickymasterWork> so "The Official Documentation provides information on the most common issues with Xubuntu." instead?
<slickymasterWork> flocculant ^^
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> or "on some of" 
<flocculant> but not 'to' 
<slickymasterWork> ok, adding it also to my todo list
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: is this todo list for xx ?
<slickymasterWork> the irony, a lazy one putting some extra work on me :P
<flocculant> ha ha 
<slickymasterWork> yes, for the x cycle
<flocculant> I can do an MP :)
<slickymasterWork> I'd do it now, but over here I'm unable, was thinking of doing it tonight
<flocculant> ok - well I'd not take too much notice of that just yet then, you can xx workitem me for reading through the whole lot
<flocculant> which might be a longer list ... 
<slickymasterWork> but if you want you can, I'll review and merge later when I get home
<flocculant> ok 
<qwebirc298254> flocculant, yeah, if going to do it, please deal also with the restricted drivers 
<krytarik> qwebirc298254: I'd plan *that* for the X series though.
<qwebirc298254> well, if he's eager to work krytarik, don't stop him 
<krytarik> The other can and should still be done now.
<krytarik> + one
<qwebirc298254> but yes, I was planning it for X
<krytarik> I'm referring to the need to (re-)translate stuff - Doc String Freeze is today.
<flocculant> which is why I was saying maybe leave it all as it's doc freeze day
<krytarik> Not relevant for the startpage though.
<flocculant> so - do that or not? 
<krytarik> Yep, do that. :)
<krytarik> But not the other one.
<krytarik> I mean, yep it's on the spot, but still. :P
<slickymasterWork> well the source doc strings have be in order today, but it's still day ;)
<slickymasterWork> and doc string freeze doesn't mean translations krytarik 
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: Like I said, we could still do it, but I'd rather *not* have everyone retranslate that due to such a slight change. ;P
<flocculant> well I pushed it - seems to have got mixed up with the thing still pending from before
<slickymasterWork> I'm not disagreeing with you krytarik, just stating that translators should technically start their work after doc freeze
<flocculant> and I would agree that no reason to look at restricted today 
<flocculant> again that's been the same since we got menulibre and additional drivers - at least 1 cycle 
<slickymasterWork> but that's not my policy as you know, otherwise I wouldn't make those translators calls at the start of each cycle
<slickymasterWork> this one flocculant-> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: that's what I mean by mixed up - that's the one that unit has showing that krytarik pointed at
<flocculant> guess because it was left pending
<flocculant> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/436
<flocculant> is what I just did 
<flocculant> no idea tbh - stupid bzr 
<slickymasterWork> yeah rev 404 is already merged
<slickymasterWork> I'll deal with rev 436 when I get home flocculant 
<flocculant> ok :)
<krytarik> flocculant: Since it also says "Merged", it'd seem that's just for historical purposes - just MP again now.
<flocculant> do it again? 
<slickymasterWork> did you do it the first time?
<krytarik> flocculant: No, you just pushed, didn't MP yet.
<slickymasterWork> I'm asking because I didn't get the mail about the MP flocculant?
<slickymasterWork> exactly krytarik 
<flocculant> remember now ... only done half of it :)
<krytarik> lol
<slickymasterWork> tss tss... silly lazy flocculant 
<flocculant> done :)
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: I can read the whole lot now and find some more ... 
<krytarik> Hah, and the other one is gone now. :P
<slickymasterWork> some more wthat, flocculant?
<flocculant> one or two word fixes if you really think I'm silly lazy flocculant :p
<slickymasterWork> hahahahah
<slickymasterWork> don't overburden yourself ;P
<flocculant> :D
<krytarik> Personally, I think the whole sentence needs an overhaul that doesn't involve the word "issues". :D
<krytarik> (But that'd be for X too.)
<flocculant> well - as I said, I'll look at the whole caboodle if slickymasterWork puts a workitem on docs bp :)
<krytarik> flocculant: Can't you add yourself?
<flocculant> I could
<slickymasterWork> gentlemen -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-x-docs
<flocculant> but that's like carrying extra load deliberately :D
<slickymasterWork> just assign it to me flocculant 
<flocculant> assign what? 
<slickymasterWork> I'll look at the whole caboodle if slickymasterWork puts a workitem on docs bp :)
<slickymasterWork> that was you ^^^
<flocculant> I've added me :)
<slickymasterWork> good boy :)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
<slickymaster> flocculant ^^
<knome> slickymaster, you want those in for this cycle?
<flocculant> slickymaster: saw - thanks
<flocculant> hi knome :)
<knome> hey flow-currant
<flocculant> oh my
<knome> ;)=
<flocculant> that's a bit risque ... 
<flocculant> :D
<knome> it's a less known sibling of blackcurrant
<flocculant> won't like 
<knome> much more tart and sour
<flocculant> sounds about right though 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> heh
<knome> (i'm just kidding)
<knome> of course..
<flocculant> ... 
<flocculant> I'm not ;)
<knome> and for the docs issue - since it's the startpage, nvm me
<FlavioVinicius> Boa tarde!
<knome> ummm... hello
<FlavioVinicius> Estive agora a pouco no canal com uma dÃºvida, sobre as traduÃ§Ãµes da documentaÃ§Ã£o do Xubuntu.
<FlavioVinicius> AlguÃ©m no canal faz parte do team de traduÃ§Ãµes?
<knome> english please
<FlavioVinicius> sorry guys rsrs
<FlavioVinicius> i forgot that by a second 
<knome> no problem
<FlavioVinicius> Is there anyone here who get involved in the team traductions?
<knome> traductions? do you mean translations?
<FlavioVinicius> knome: yes
<FlavioVinicius> ^^
<knome> sure
<knome> what's up?
<FlavioVinicius> i'll try to explain for you what i want to know... but my english is not that good
<knome> it looks ok this far :)
<FlavioVinicius> Documentation in Portuguese Brazil is hard to find. There are several suggestions on the launchpad, but it makes two months that no updates. How can I do to help to speed up this process?
<knome> right, you'll need somebody who can review the translations
<knome> let me dig up some information.
<knome> FlavioVinicius, https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-pt-br
<knome> FlavioVinicius, people in that team (contact information and more on the description) should be able to help
<knome> i don't understand portuguese, but i'd imagine it has the information you need
<knome> sorry, that's the wrong team..
<knome> FlavioVinicius, it would be this: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-pt-br
<knome> but both of those teams should be more or less useful
<knome> FlavioVinicius, but generally, you will need to have at least 70% of the documentation translated until it will be included in the ISO
<knome> FlavioVinicius, once that's done, it will be included without any further actions really
<knome> (those 70% need to be reviewed)
<FlavioVinicius> knome: Thanks, I will try to contact and follow the information that is available on the pages you posted.
<knome> sure, np
<knome> if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask - we'll help if we cna
<knome> and thanks for the interest and work with the translations!
<FlavioVinicius> I know thats necessary 70% of the documentation translated, but i wanna know why the review take so long. I'll contact the team.
<FlavioVinicius> :)
<knome> i don't know how the process actually goes (i guess i should, i'm a reviewer too...) but maybe they just aren't aware of it
<bluesabre> knome: need an upload tonight?
<knome> bluesabre, nah. it was the startpage, so it's not translatable anyway
<knome> bluesabre, thanks for asking though :)
<bluesabre> knome: any time
<knome> that said, we might want to think about making that translatable at some point too
<knome> and more specifically, get it into the docbook system
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-18
<bluesabre> so much for me getting anything done this week
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll get some releases and uploads out this weekend
<bluesabre> night all
<flocculant> something seems awry - create a new document - previously would open in mousepad - now wants to know what to open it with 
<flocculant> would that be an xdg-utils problem? 
<flocculant> the old testcases would have had us reporting against thunar 
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1497170 and bug 1497175 all shiny and new
<ubottu> bug 1497170 in thunar (Ubuntu) "New file creation - not opening with file editor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497170
<ubottu> bug 1497175 in thunar (Ubuntu) "File restore from wastebin not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497175
<flocculant> not reported either on bugzilla just yet - make sure they're both thunar bugs before I do that 
<flocculant> did both (and checked) in clean install to make sure it wasn't just local
<flocculant> obviously will report to bugzilla if we need that and link them
<flocculant> when is wily getting the wily help files? 
<flocculant> before they freeze images next week? 
<knome> hmm?
<flocculant> oh - so I guess you thought it had them already :)
<knome> what are you referring to with help files?
<flocculant> the help in the menu
<bluesabre> flocculant: could be xdg-utils or exo
<bluesabre> try using xdg-open and exo-open and see what happens with each
<flocculant> bluesabre: which is why I didn't bugzilla thunar pointlessly yet :)
<knome> flocculant, you are referring to the last change you did?
<flocculant> bluesabre: same for both - gives the 'what do you want to open this with?' dialogue
<bluesabre> hmmm
<flocculant> knome: nope - not that at all, when you open help in wily you still get 15.04 docs
<knome> o.O
<bluesabre> I think that's xdg then
<bluesabre> one moment
 * knome llooks
<flocculant> xubuntu-docs	15.04.2 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20150918/wily-desktop-amd64.manifest
<knome> bluesabre, insight on flocculant's question?
<knome> oh right
<bluesabre> knome: I keep asking if you need an upload
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> so we haven't just done an upload for this cycle yet
<flocculant> :D
<knome> well, i don't think it's a big issue, but sure, you can do one now if it isn't too much work
<Unit193> Might have been a good idea before string freeze. ;D
<knome> might have been - though i thought we had the string changes covered already
<slickymasterWork> me too knome 
<knome> bluesabre, let's do an upload now then
<knome> bluesabre, do you want me to handle the freeze exception paperwork?
<slickymasterWork> and morning all
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> knome: please do since I'll be out most of the day, but can upload when I get home
<knome> oki
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> flocculant: if you choose a default, does it remember it?
<Unit193> I suppose the  warning: failed to load external entity "C/translator-credits.xml"  is fine?
<bluesabre> knome: Unit193 can also upload if you want it earlier in the day
<Unit193> >_>
<bluesabre> put that xubuntu-uploaders membership to use :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: yes it does - though the icon on desktop still seems the be the 'wth is this!' one :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: yikes
<knome> yess
<knome> Unit193, yeah, it's just a warning - it's expected and ok
<Unit193> Figured, since C.  Though kind of disagree. :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://i.imgur.com/aovACvT.png
<bluesabre> flocculant: xdg-mime query filetype <filename>
<flocculant> properties - kind unknown
<flocculant> application/octet-stream
<bluesabre> hmm
<bluesabre> if you have a pre-wily vm somewhere, can you try the same?
<flocculant> almost feel useful today \o/ apart from making work for people lol 
<knome> lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: ooh - might actually be able to do a 'while ago' vm 
<bluesabre> pretty sure its xdg-utils at fault, just trying to figure out which fix broke it
<flocculant> have one with ppa's I don't use much 
<knome> lunch, bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant: if its over a week old, it would probably have the older xdg
<flocculant> ok - so in there it works 
<flocculant> 1.1.0~rc1-2ubuntu11
<bluesabre> does the xdg-mime command return something different?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/grsj2OKxSRjQkyMRlINo/ nice...
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep text/plain
<bluesabre> there we go
<flocculant> so change that bug to xdg-utils ?
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> and add a note about that
<flocculant> ok 
<Unit193> !info xdg-utils unstable
<ubottu> xdg-utils (source: xdg-utils): desktop integration utilities from freedesktop.org. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.0~rc3+git20150907-2 (unstable), package size 66 kB, installed size 297 kB
<Unit193> !info xdg-utils wily
<ubottu> xdg-utils (source: xdg-utils): desktop integration utilities from freedesktop.org. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.0~rc3+git20150907-1ubuntu2 (wily), package size 56 kB, installed size 292 kB
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant!
<flocculant> welcome
<flocculant> though that was just one of them :(
<flocculant> the thunar one is the same in the oldish vm 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok 0 changed that one and commented 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so - boot ubuntu vm - try and restore from trash - same problem :)
<flocculant> so that's not thunar either \o/ 
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> so thats likely gvfs
<Unit193> gvfs! \o/
<bluesabre> knome: want to ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1497228 before I nudge -release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497228 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] shimmer-themes 2.0.2" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> mmm so installing restore-trash and using that from cli works ok 
<flocculant> bluesabre: shall I just move that bug from thunar to gvfs and let someone work out where it should be? 
<flocculant> someone else ... 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, that will get some eyes on it
<flocculant> yep - I'll whack it on the tracker too - for ubuntu and us :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll see about adding a patched xdg-utils to -staging this weekend to see if that takes care of things
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> nice - so both not us :)
<flocculant> unfortunately I can't make me read 15.10 for the help files :D
<knome> bluesabre, i wonder what kind of ack you want
<bluesabre> knome: you're in docs, right?
<knome> bluesabre, also, if you didn't look at -release, you got the ack to upload docs now
<knome> oh right
<knome> done :P
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> now to remember how to upload docs
<knome> haha :P
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> 3-4 times a year :D
 * Unit193 wonders what's hard about uploading docs.
<bluesabre> nothing
 * knome shrugs
<bluesabre> being silly
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> They even remembered to keep the changelog short or wrap it. :D
<Unit193> (Or I already fixed, either way.  I may have poked..)
<knome> slickymasterWork, ping?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> running a test build, then will upload
<slickymasterWork> pong knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, want to draft a mail for the ubuntu-translators list with me?
<knome> about the xubuntu docs
<slickymasterWork> sure, but I was about to go lunch
<slickymasterWork> can we do it after?
<knome> ok, let's do it after that
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> great, I'll ping you when I arrive
<Unit193> bluesabre: bzr tag 15.10.0 ? :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll let knome do that, I'm not in the documentation team
<slickymasterWork> I see you already ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1497228 knome, so there's no need for me to put my hat on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497228 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] shimmer-themes 2.0.2" [Undecided,New]
<knome> slickymasterWork, yep
<Unit193> bluesabre: I am, but wrong docs team.  I still get some of the crappy Ubuntu bug mail, but no push rights. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> that might be my situation as well
<flocculant> bluesabre: sorry - I forgot to add that mime stuff to there ... 
<Unit193> Also, new Core uploads.
<bluesabre> flocculant: np
<bluesabre> knome: docs uploaded
<knome> bluesabre, cheers :)
<flocculant> Unit193: are we actually likely to see core on cdimage this cycle ? 
<flocculant> if not I'll move that to postponed ;)
<Unit193> flocculant: At the rate of the MP review?  Sure!  If you mean the XXX cycle...
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :D
 * bluesabre gets ready for work
<bluesabre> bbl, hf all
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/15.10.0
<flocculant> cya bluesabre 
<knome> slickymasterWork, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-documentation-translations
<jjfrv8> flocculant, good catches on those two bugs! I confirmed them both.
<jjfrv8> Interesting thing was that I had a couple of files in Trash from a few days ago and they restored, but newly deleted ones don't.
<slickymasterWork> and I'm in knome 
 * slickymasterWork haves a read of what's already drafted in the pad
<Unit193> Commas, commas.
<slickymasterWork> lol knome 'noboby'
<slickymasterWork> ok corrected that typo and add a paragraph to it
<flocculant> bluesabre: see jjfrv8's comment ^^
<flocculant> might help narrow that down
<ochosi> evening
<knome> hullo
<ochosi> anything important i missed lately?
<knome> don't think so
<Unit193> ochosi: knome tried to take over again.
<knome> of course.
<ochosi> Unit193: good good, that's the *plan* ;)
<Unit193> Hrm, what're the terms on leadership positions again?
<knome> what terms?
<knome> if you are referring to the debian liaison position, the terms are that you are a slave for the project and website leads.
<knome> you mean term length?
<Unit193> XPL one is pretty clear, didn't remember the lengths for the others.
<Unit193> Also, not website, XTL.
<knome> the others are basically "as long as you are interested in doing it"
<knome> or practically, until there is several people who want to be it
<knome> but there is no set procedure for that
<Unit193> Eg, never. :P
<knome> i would imagine in that case we'd just put up a poll.
<knome> who knows, but so far it hasn't been a very realistic scenario
<knome> also, if somebody is doing something well, there's little need to replace them
<knome> if they aren't doing it well, or are willing to part with it, it's easy to bump
<knome> like me becoming the website lead and taking that hat from pleia2
<ochosi> yup, that'd have been my policy too
<ochosi> do-o-cracy
<knome> this isn't really something where newbies get involved
<ochosi> anyhow, off for tonight. night all!
<slickymaster> have a good one ochosi 
<knome> nighty simon
<slickymaster> btw knome, did you saw my ping regarding the pad?
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1/ â Broken link, common infra.
<knome> slickymaster, i don't see an added paragraph?
<knome> or do we simply have the same color?
<knome> right
<knome> sneaky!
<slickymaster> not my fault
<knome> hah
<knome> you can change the color, you know?
<slickymaster> yeah. but I didn't think it was so important
<knome> heh, not really
<knome> but it's hard to follow your changes if you have the same color
<knome> so i'd say it's best to make sure you don't
<knome> for example, if you weren't around now and i opened the pad with a different computer, i would have no way to notice the difference between my own and your edits
<slickymaster> it's the seconf to last paragraph
<slickymaster> * second
<knome> i know
<knome> i changed my own color
<knome> because i am on the same computer, i can do that
<knome> but yeah, it looks good to me
<slickymaster> ok, I'll send it then
<knome> ok
<knome> please remember to change the XXX's this time
<knome> okay?
<slickymaster> damn, you have a memory like an elefant (and my ex) :P
<knome> are you saying your ex is (like) an elefant?
<knome> oh boy
<knome> no wonder she's your ex
 * knome hides
<slickymaster> no, quite the opposite
<Unit193> ...You're an elefant?
<slickymaster> I've been called worst
<knome> slickymaster, blue whale?
<slickymaster> will that make you my Ahab?
<knome> who knows
<slickymaster> :P
<slickymaster> knome, it doesn't make much sense saying "We also recommend everyone to join the Ubuntu-translators mailing list [2] to keep up with notifications about important translation template updates and to stay in touch with other Ubuntu translators.
<knome> okay
<slickymaster> when we're email said list
<knome> true
<knome> it was you who added that though.
<slickymaster> yeah, but then I noticed that it's meant for their m/l
<knome> ;)=
<slickymaster> at the time I was convinced that we were drafting something for our media channels
 * knome facepalms
<knome> well,
<knome> we can craft something for them as well
<slickymaster> we've already have been doing that since the beginning of cycle
<slickymaster> the translators calls in -devel m/l
<knome> i know
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm - so we have chinese fonts now - for latex ;)
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/zH9pKQR.png
<ochosi> flocculant: wait, is that supposed to be a good thing? :>
<flocculant> guessing not
<flocculant> one on left is yesterday, right todays daily
<flocculant> when I upgraded this morning added download was a whole load :(
<ochosi> hmm
<flocculant> also - hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant :)
<ochosi> actually gotta run get some groceries
<ochosi> bbl
<flocculant> okey doke 
<ochosi> hf you guys!
<flocculant> texlive-lang-chinese apparently has us in Task
<flocculant> removing 489MB ... 
<flocculant> removing 109MB ... 
<flocculant> so that's not inconsiderable 
<krytarik> flocculant, bluesabre: Reg. today's issue of the images, it's because of this change: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghostscript/9.16~dfsg~0-0ubuntu2 - and LP bug 1449875.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449875 in texlive-lang (Ubuntu) "ghostscript fails on some EPS files" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449875
<flocculant> awesome
<flocculant> and hi krytarik :)
<krytarik> Hi flocculant.
<flocculant> got to love some people "I fixed this bug - not interested if it's caused other problems"
<krytarik> LOL - yep.
<krytarik> Still want to figure out why main Ubuntu doesn't have it though.
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> all I'd be wanting to know is how to get us not have it :)
<flocculant> kicked the hell out of the image size, if micahg was worried before - he'll have kittens now :)
<krytarik> lol
<flocculant> debian/rules: Demote texlive-lang-cjk from Recommends: to Suggests: as it pulls in a large amount of unneeded packages (LP: #1449875).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449875 in texlive-lang (Ubuntu) "ghostscript fails on some EPS files" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449875
<krytarik> flocculant: Nice. ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghostscript/9.16~dfsg~0-0ubuntu3 )
<flocculant> yep - should be back to normal tomorrow :)
<TheMaster> corsac r9270 goodies/trunk/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/debian/changelog * upload to unstable  https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin_0.2.3-1.html
<drc> pleia2: Another one http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/eeepc-trusty.html
<bluesabre> TheMaster: :o
<bluesabre> bbl
<TheMaster> https://bugs.debian.org/799534
<ubottu> Debian bug 799534 in xfce4-session "xfce4-session: Recommend light-locker instead of xscreensaver" [Wishlist,Open]
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-20
<pleia2> social media-ing the call for translators
<pleia2> added the link from drc to the In the Press page
<pleia2> since I've had a couple people ask leading up to release, I'll work to make time tomorrow to draft up the blog post about the flyers (we'll see how that goes)
 * pleia2 goes to dinner
<Unit193> Eat well.
<backinthegame42> Hello everybody. When I set a static IP for my wireless connection on xubuntu 14 it completely freezes the system requiring a hard reset. Any ideas?
<backinthegame42> Via nm-applet
<backinthegame42> Interfaces reconfigured doesn't seem to work. It increases boot time with a network configuration error.
<knome> went ahead and registered some blueprints: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-x-xubuntu for the umbrella and links for more
<knome> all postponed items are added to the appropriate blueprints
<flocculant> as you'll have seen - some were already done for other teams :p
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<Unit193> Element ULINK in namespace '' encountered in para, but no template matches.
<flocculant> seems we're still waiting for ghostscript to get out of proposed - image at 1.too much Gb still :)
<Unit193> settings-preferences.xml:313: element para: validity error : Element ULINK is not declared in para list of possible children
<Unit193> settings-preferences.xml:313: element ULINK: validity error : No declaration for element ULINK
<Unit193> settings-preferences.xml:313: element ULINK: validity error : No declaration for attribute URL of element ULINK
<Unit193> Document ru/index.xml does not validate
<flocculant> nope - not in proposed - for some reason manifest shows the updated version - but image still has the older one
<flocculant> watch that tomorrow - not sure we're going to want b2 at 1.6Gb 
<knome> haha
<flocculant> :)
<knome> lots of smiles
<knome> ok, time to go
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre> afternoon folks :D
<flocculant> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> whats up flocculant 
<flocculant> absolutely nothing - having a lazy day :p
<flocculant> you?
<bluesabre> nm, trying to get a few things done today
<bluesabre> poking -release, and then micahg
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: still around?
<bluesabre> flocculant: found the plaintext vs octet-stream issue, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1497170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497170 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "New file creation - not opening with file editor" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: in case you want to -docs ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1497753
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497753 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "[FFe] xfpanel-switch 1.0.2" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, saw you actually did end up filing a FFE.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, thought it'd be best
<bluesabre> even if it might take a while for somebody in -release to notice
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbabl
<Unit193> Be Back Around Beta Launch?
<krytarik> After. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<micahg> ghostprint just had it recommends updated and reverted for pulling in lots of things
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<pleia2> knome and anyone else who wants to preview/modify/comment upon the flyer draft post: http://xubuntu.org/?p=3477&preview=true (need to be a team member who can log into the site...)
<slickymaster> done bluesabre 
<pleia2> sent questions off to another organization using xubuntu (I now have 2 sets of questions in flight, fingers crossed), will likely publish both these next cycle
<pleia2> knome: I still have a static.xubuntu.org update to do w/ symlinks to add, I'm home for a couple weeks so grab me when you're ready to finish that up :)
<bluesabre> slickymaster: thanks
<slickymaster> sure bluesabre 
<slickymaster> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice to see you found the issue :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: now the question is how to proceed with that issue :)
<flocculant> yea - but better than not knowing what the issue is :p
<flocculant> other than it's not working dude 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> micahg: yea - saw that sitting there - hopefully it'll be cooked by tomorrow
<ochosi> knome: thanks for setting up the 16.04 bps in advance. that really does make a lot of sense and i guess we should've made it common practice a few cycles ago already
<Unit193> 1604bps?  Gosh that's slow.
<bluesabre> wowza
<bluesabre> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<ochosi> quite busy :)
<ochosi> but ok
<ochosi> working a lot during the days, and during the evenings too
<bluesabre> busy busy
<ochosi> but i guess things will slow down a bit when routine starts to kick in
<ochosi> still many new things everywhere
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> at least you're managing to stay afloat
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> and at least i manage to stop by here on a regular basis ;)
<ochosi> so how're things on your endÃ
<ochosi> ?
<bluesabre> pretty good
<bluesabre> another release day over here
<bluesabre> xfpanel-switch, catfish, menulibre
<bluesabre> so far
<ochosi> wowza
<ochosi> busy bee
<bluesabre> winding down now
<knome> ochosi, np :)
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> i'm sorry i didn't manage to remain entirely up-to-date, what did you update/fix?
<ochosi> also, is the clutter bug tackled/acknowledged upstream yet?
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.2 - https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.3/1.3.2 - https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.1/2.1.1
<bluesabre> mostly just translations
<ochosi> ah ok
<bluesabre> but some bugs in there
<bluesabre> clutter bug so far ignored
<ochosi> oh, nice bugfixes for xfpanel-switch though
<knome> nice burndown ;)
<ochosi> that too
<knome> ochosi, have you enjoyed the new details page a lot?
<ochosi> i still am enjoying it
<knome> :)
<ochosi> wait, are you planning to take it away from me again..?
<bluesabre> ochosi: on debian side, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin finally uploaded
<knome> i'm actually very happy and a bit surprised how nice it turned out
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, saw that, very very cool
<knome> including the visual side
<ochosi> i hope i can spend some time on that again soon (or maybe andrzejr will ;))
<ochosi> knome: indeed, very nice work on that
<knome> happy to be useful
<bluesabre> if -release shows up today, we might get shimmer-themes and xfpanel-switch uploaded
<knome> sunday isn't the fastest day for release
<ochosi> knome: how hard will it be to set this up for 16.04? lots of manual copy-pasting-editing?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, keeping my fingers crossed
<ochosi> also, we should get in touch with the kubuntu devs
<ochosi> or simply drop orion from shimmer-themes
<knome> ochosi, add one sql table row, make one column in that true and other in the wily column false
<knome> it's all built to be dynamic
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, that'd be the easiest way to get shimmer-themes back
<ochosi> it's unmaintained, satya doesn't care about it anymore (and/or doesnt have time for it) and i have no time/interest in maintaining orion
<knome> the event dates is the only thing that is done manually in code atm
<ochosi> bluesabre: and getting shimmer-themes back has already taken far too long, so please let's just do that...
<bluesabre> ochosi: would you want to reach out to them as a shimmer rep so that we can make that happen? :)
<ochosi> i can try
<ochosi> but my online-time is fairly limited
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i'll be off in about 20-25mins
<knome> bluesabre, them? == satya?
<bluesabre> knome: them = kubuntu
<ochosi> i think he meant kubuntu
<ochosi> then again, i consider that a royal waste of time
<ochosi> orion simply isn't worth it
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> heck, we don't even install that by default
<knome> we can drop orion
<ochosi> if they want it, they can have it
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> alrighty
<knome> i can talk to kubuntu people
<knome> if it's needed
<knome> about orion
<ochosi> knome: i think not
<knome> ok
<ochosi> they'll notice
<knome> hah
<ochosi> and then they can decide what they wanna do
<knome> well it would be nice to notice them in advance
<ochosi> i'll keep the github repo alive
<bluesabre> ochosi: except, we can't remove it from the package
<bluesabre> requires upload rights :P
 * ochosi facepalms
<bluesabre> I'll create a bug report for it
<knome> lol
<knome> bluesabre, point me to that then
<ochosi> knome: k, then pls talk to them
<bluesabre> knome: will do
<bluesabre> just a few minutes...
<knome> joined #kubuntu-devel and explained the situation
<knome> now waiting for a reply :)
<knome> when i get the bug, i'll follow-up with it
<knome> feel free to join to talk about it if/when they reply
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> (just as much feel free not to...)
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/breeze/+bug/1497784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497784 in breeze (Ubuntu) "Drop recommends on deprecated orion-gtk-theme" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> suppose I can grab a kubuntu iso and see if they are using breeze
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> orion-gtk-theme
<knome> heh
<knome> i guess they should know
<knome> right? :P
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> aww, they figured it out before the iso finished downloading
<ochosi> well good to finally see some movement on that side
<ochosi> that was really bothering me for a while already
<knome> friendly communication can fix a load of things
<bluesabre> micahg: is the packageset generation script in one of the ubuntu packages? most ubuntu things are python, so if it is I can take a look at it and provide a patch
<bluesabre> micahg: just need to know where to look :)
<ochosi> not that i want to discourage you from working, but really, i think *this* might not be worth it...
<bluesabre> ochosi: it could save us from future headaches
<ochosi> i'd rather see the keyboard-shortcut overlay implemented or something ;)
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> future headaches in the sense that other DEs might grab other themes?
<ochosi> i think in the future we'll just react more directly
<ochosi> same as we did now, but 4months earlier
<ochosi> *that* will certainly save us headaches!
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> or other packages
<ochosi> anyhoo, that was just my 2cents
<bluesabre> if there is some flaw that causes any shared package to be yanked from xubuntu even if we maintain it, I'd like to fix that
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep now anyway
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<ochosi> i agree
<ochosi> or: invest some time to become MOTU ;)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> that's probably what I really need to do
<ochosi> another way of saving us from headaches
 * ochosi is full of ideas tonight
 * bluesabre has so far avoided becoming a motu to keep up development time
<ochosi> right
<bluesabre> and/or free time
<ochosi> in that case, keep avoiding it );
<ochosi> we can always annoy others if this happens again
<ochosi> i think reacting fast is enough
<knome> that thoght includes the subthought that people who are actually active should look into things
<knome> instead of assigning/delegating to people who might know more about the issue, but are not active or do not have the time
<ochosi> agreed
<knome> no hard feelings here or anything like that, but i thought this needed to be said out loud
<bluesabre> mhm
<knome> and i will totally support and stand by both bluesabre and Unit193 if they decide to apply for MOTU
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> anyway, night all (for realz this time)
<knome> nighty simon
<bluesabre> night ochosi 
<bluesabre> suppose I'll start the app process now
<bluesabre> will be handy for x anyway
<knome> :)
<knome> i think it should be a relatively smooth operation for you
<bluesabre> ideally
<knome> bluesabre, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<knome> bluesabre, search for "xubuntu" on that page
<knome> shouldn't we be listed on the previous list?
<knome> with ~xubuntu-uploaders
<bluesabre> knome: yup, we should
<bluesabre> maybe the wiki finally logged me in
<bluesabre> nope, died
<bluesabre> try again
<knome> well i think you should simply ask the dmb to change that
<knome> pleia2, heeey, the planet css change has made it to production after months of waiting :>
<knome> wb krytarik 
<krytarik> knome: LOL
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: saw your comment to robert ancell - added lightdm.log from a fail to return from lock session
<bluesabre> flocculant, you rock
<ochosi> hey folks, i'm afk until october. thanks for running things! talk to you then!
<knome> hf ochosi 
<ochosi> ty :)
<akxwi-dave> enjoy ochosi 
<flocculant> ochosi: cya - have fun 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-20
<flocculant> should see beta freeze today - image looks ok
<flocculant> if we want to use release note from x.org instead of u.wiki then someone should get that sorted out 
<flocculant> bluesabre: if we've still got bug 1622303 (and I really suspect we will) I'm not going to mark image ready - and I'm of the opinion that we don't release on Thursday
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<flocculant> bluesabre: followed up here a bit - purge lightlocker, install xscreensaver - works perfectly
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r620 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<bluesabre> flocculant, can you check something else along with that?
<bluesabre> With xscreensaver, click "Swith User" (or equivalent) which will return you to the login screen, and then login/unlock
<flocculant> bluesabre: that didn't seem to work - got something about gdmflexiserver and a list of my path
<flocculant> appears we might get a day and a bit to test this beta
<Unit193> Soon I should be able to test UEFI/secure boot in qemu again too.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not worrying about this beta too much tbh -  chances of getting lock working by Thursday morning are slim at best I'd guess
<flocculant> and I'm not ok'ing an install which fails to come back after suspend without losing anything someone might have not saved when suspending
<knome> pleia2, flocculant, bluesabre, ochosi (know you're away, but for information): http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-council-article
<flocculant> knome: looked, hit the strikethrough button a few times - changed a few bits - thanks for doing it 
<knome> np
<knome> shall extend that, probably pushing out when ochosi is back
<flocculant> right - did wonder, seemed a bit skeletonish :p
<flocculant> knome: did you see "if we want to use release note from x.org instead of u.wiki ..." earlier today? assuming so
<knome> i didn't
<knome> but now i did :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> that said - not sure it's going to say more than 'there isn't anything because blah' at the moment 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so the few times a year it would be good if we were usefully close timezones are around release time :p
<flocculant> need your position on releasing and this suspend lock thing ... 
<flocculant> which I'll read tomorrow morning I hope :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-21
<bluesabre> flocculant, we're not likely to get it fixed before beta, and I haven't seen cavalier about recently (light-locker's dev), so if we can't figure something out, we should keep the option of moving to xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver open
<bluesabre> which will mean some fast and heavy testing
<bluesabre> flocculant, I personally use gnome-screensaver, the VT switch is pretty annoying with some of my hardware (functional, but oh so slow)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack for that, given you didn't say anything about this issue and us not releasing tomorrow - I'll say we're not releasing tomorrow :)
<flocculant> I'll tell infinity in -release now, if you want to change our minds - in -release as well please :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: quick check of g-screensaver on this machine - wasn't slower than light-locker
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r621 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<flocculant> that's locking and suspend btw
<bluesabre> flocculant, alrighty
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - sent a testing call to the m/l, specifically pointing at the lock issue - perhaps we'll get some sensible comments on the bug
<flocculant> bluesabre: given a choice between xscreen and the gnome one - I'd pick gnome 
<flocculant> which I'm surprised by :p
<flocculant> knome: if we're going to release note on wiki.x.o then where? subsection of dev,docs or qa? or section of it's own? 
<knome> probably own section
<flocculant> I'd imagine it having testing/release(s)/archived which ever
<knome> maybe
<knome> releases/xx.xx/release-notes
<flocculant> wfm - and creating the section is easy? 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> not sure what you mean by that
<knome> by what?
<flocculant> eleases/xx.xx/release-notes
<knome> oh, so
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/16.10/notes-beta
<knome> for example
<flocculant> aah right
<flocculant> no
<knome> then we could dump all release-specific stuff under that section
<flocculant> we decided cycle or so back we would have a rolling note during dev cycle - which once released stops being changed
<knome> mhm
<knome> so it would be just one set of notes?
<flocculant> knome: works like this
<knome> then just notes-beta --> release-notes
<flocculant> start z notes - edit, edit, edit, so when milestone happens note is current
<knome> yep
<flocculant> on release, note is forzen
<knome> i'd still keep them under /releases
<flocculant> oh yea
<flocculant> running short of time now - I know what's in my head, I'll note it down later on a pad or something for you to see 
<flocculant> back later
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/16.10/release-notes
<knome> and see http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/16.10/release-notes?do=index for how it looks in the sitemap
<krytarik> knome, flocculant: How about just "/releases/16.10/notes" instead?
<knome> what if we want to do other kinds of notes?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/838462
<ubottu> Debian bug 838462 in light-locker "light-locker: X crashes when attaching/removing displays while locked" [Important,Open]
<flocculant> knome: could do it like that - and given I'm not bothered enough to start wanting to delete pages on that wiki - I guess akxwi-dave will ;)
<akxwi-dave> here he goes again, volunteering me..   Oh well.. :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: luckily for you I was volunteering you to get someone to delete something if you didn't want it :p
<flocculant> no actual work involved - just some good old qa qwining :p
<Unit193> flocculant: FWIW, if we change xscreensaver.desktop as shipped in xfce4-session (or add an override in x-d-s), "Switch Users" in xscreensaver will go to lightdm's login (xscreensaver ships a wrapper, /usr/share/xscreensaver/xscreensaver-wrapper.sh
<flocculant> riiiiight
<flocculant> alternatively installing gnome-screensaver just works :p
<Unit193> (I'm informing, based on deps I surprisingly have nothing against gnome-screensaver.)
<flocculant> and looks relatively modern against the xscreensaver from the 90s :p
<Unit193> Hah, well it works, so hard to change for me.  Biggest thing against the gnome one, if it tries to install when I upgrade. :P
<flocculant> I guess that post-b2 we'll have to make some sort of decision quite rapidly there
<flocculant> Unit193: well yes it works - as long as I didn't try to do what sean asked me to do
<flocculant> we keep having light locker issues *shrug*
<Unit193> "Switch user"?  WFM!  (And only have one user.)  Again, not against gnome-screensaver (and really should try it out myself.)
<flocculant> anyway - bit away ish now
<flocculant> knome: quick question - on u.wiki you can # and it doesn't 'show' - no love for that with dokuwiki?
<knome> it *should* work
<flocculant> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/16.10/release-notes
<knome> i'll look into it, if not this week, then next
<flocculant> okey doke
<knome> will be away pretty much all weekend and lot of friday
<flocculant> I did have a quick shufty about on the interwebs - what I saw talked about plugins
<knome> yep
<flocculant> ack - no rush obviously for this :)
<knome> but basic commeting should work without the plugins
<knome> and i did install a plugin once...
<flocculant> right - appears not to atm
<flocculant> anyway - enough of that, quick important thing then :p
<flocculant> did you start announcement for b2? 
<knome> nope
<flocculant> k
<davmor2> flocculant: they'll be a respin I found an issue it only affect everything :(
<flocculant> though it's not going to announce a release - so I guess not too much problem - I can knock one out quickly if need be
<flocculant> davmor2: we're very very very unlikely to be releasing anyway for a bug 
<Unit193> I believe you'll have to add a plugin.
<knome> apparently - i wrote a plugin
<knome> apparently - it's not working (any more)
<knome> weirdo.
<flocculant> davmor2: the 3rd party thing? 
<davmor2> flocculant: Yeap
<flocculant> okey doke
<davmor2> flocculant: kinda a hard to use a laptop with no wifi, gfx, sound, etc if you system required drivers or firmware installing :)
<flocculant> davmor2: unless there's some miraculous fix for a light-locker issue then I'll be nixing it anyway for us
<flocculant> davmor2: indeed :)
<flocculant> on the positive side - at least this isn't Final :D
<davmor2> no that in 3 weeks right so no pressure :(
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> davmor2: tbh we keep getting light-locker things for the last couple of years - could be time to look elsewhere or even backwards
<flocculant> I assume we don't need a 'slideshow shows some rat instead of some cow' bug?
<davmor2> flocculant: just have a string of cowsays and nobody will notice the lack of slides ;)
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: lol i know.. no worries.. after a long day at work..my attempt at humour.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> \o/ new tester got in touch 
<akxwi-dave> nice.. who?
<flocculant> dave has mail :p
<akxwi-dave> nice...
<Unit193> Ubuntu's ll has these extra configure flags: --enable-late-locking=yes --enable-lock-on-lid=yes --enable-lock-on-suspend=yes --enable-settings-backend=yes
<flocculant> bluesabre: re locker, not sure what we'll need to do if we decide to change, nor how much time we'd get, nor how much testing we'll need, maybe we need to try and actually be about at the same time to properly discuss it - I'm not going to be able to be around late tomorrow - but can be on Friday if that helps
<knome> Unit193, do we know if ll works better for them?
<knome> i guess one option is to disable suspend for 16.10
<knome> if that's the feature causing the problems
<knome> that might be the "least intrusive way"
<knome> one discussion we probably want to have before release anyway is if we are going to recommend avoiding the non-LTS path now more than often
<knome> eg. we know many new xfce development'ish packages are going to be in before the next LTS,
<knome> thunar might be broken and we're looking for a potential replacement,
<knome> light-locker might be broken and we're looking for a potential replacement,
<knome> what else?
<knome> so at least as i've understood it, we've been pretty stable with non-LTS releases before - will this be the case even this time?
<Unit193> knome: Corsac wants nothing to do with xscreensaver, so pretty sure he uses it.  I'd say we shouldn't "recommend avoiding it", but just be clear that file manager changes, etc might happen.
<flocculant> knome: it's not suspend - it's locking, just that suspend uses locking 
<flocculant> really don't think we should be thinking about disabling lock
<flocculant> I did manage to try ll with the first 3 of the flags u uses - I assume - changed them with dconf editor - made no difference here
<flocculant> this was from infinity to me earlier today "Maybe we can get it fixed in time, maybe not, but the more testing you can do, even if you don't release with the milestone, the better shape we'll be in to figure out how to move forward for release."
<flocculant> so I assume from that we'll likely get some help here 
<flocculant> that said - we've got 4 weeks to make a decision one way or the other
<flocculant> back tomorrow
<bluesabre> flocculant, I'll do some testing and write up some documentation for the lockers and whatnot
<bluesabre> hopefully tonight
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-22
<bluesabre> flocculant, created a pad, added some notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-y-locker
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Think I can get a new -session upload done without getting yelled at? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, new stable?
<Unit193> bluesabre: No, see -xfce?
<bluesabre> aha
<Unit193> I think it's good no matter what we do.
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> Unit193, I see no issue with it
<bluesabre> Unit193, feel free to upload, it can certainly save us trouble down the line
<bluesabre> and it'll have to go to -proposed anyway
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Yeeeah, saw that bit.  Wondering if I can easily get my diff out of SVN.
<bluesabre> flocculant, also started documenting file managers, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-z-filemanager
<Unit193> :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: Wait, weren't we supposed to go through patches too?
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, just started writing things up, we won't switch unless we have to
<Unit193> Yes yes, I got that.  Just reminded me about that bit that I'd forgotten. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://piratenpad.de/p/thunar-patches :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, thanks for this
<Unit193> Sure thing.  Figured you can make it more understandable/pretty if needed.  Or move it over too. :P
<bluesabre> Yeah, I'll start to review and add notes as I make progress
<bluesabre> (though, probably not tonight)
<Unit193> Yeeeah, several more potential fixes in there too. :/
<bluesabre> at least it's not very difficult to reproduce
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for both - I did start making some usability notes for files managers which I promptly lost - will do so again
<flocculant> though I do remember 'open terminal here' only worked with pcmanfm
<flocculant> bluesabre: added a few notes to the locker pad 
<flocculant> we really don't have much time - don't know if you were aware of that :p
<flocculant> next week to decide I guess - so we're changed prior to RC 
<Unit193> I presume you saw I uploaded -session?
<flocculant> I read it twice I think :p
<Unit193> Yey, so I don't have to tell you.
<flocculant> nope :)
<flocculant> Unit193: oh and thanks for the patches paste too :)
<Unit193> That's a pad.
<flocculant> oh yes
<flocculant> said I was still waking up ... 
<Unit193> But sure thing, doc.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant, little time indeed, hence all the writing and patching and whatnot :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> good lord
<bluesabre> on lunch break, thought I'd see if you were around to discuss :)
<flocculant> just got in :)
<flocculant> just grab a cup of something hot - be 2 minutes
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - back :)
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> so, light-locker
<flocculant> I assume you're ok not releasing today/tomorrow
<bluesabre> yeah, that's fine, or we can release with the stipulation that locking is broken and that 16.10 final may ship with a different locker
<bluesabre> either way is fine by me
<flocculant> really don't want to do that
<flocculant> ship that is
<bluesabre> boat maybe?
<flocculant> this is a bit different than no mouse cursor 
<bluesabre> yes
<flocculant> ha ha - more like a oil tanker :p
<bluesabre> this is productivity breaking
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> yea - socially not very good for us to do it either imo
<bluesabre> true
<flocculant> I don't know if you can mark the bug as critical? 
<bluesabre> then yeah, let's skip beta and come to a decision on the locker by mid-next week
<bluesabre> I'll check
<bluesabre> not in bug squad, but maybe
<flocculant> if not once the chaff has settled on other flavours releasing I was going to ping infinity to get it changed if *we* had no-one who could
<flocculant> which will also remind him of the issue :p
<flocculant> he might be able to get someone to look *shrug*
<bluesabre> flocculant, this one, right? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1622303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resumes to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I KNOW for sure I can't or it would be marked so :p
<bluesabre> marked it critical
<flocculant> awesome
<flocculant> I'll ensure we've got critical tracker fails 
<bluesabre> good deal
<flocculant> so - yea - mid-week for a decision sounds right
<flocculant> I'm leaning g-s tbh, it does at least look more like what we have now
<bluesabre> cool, that's the one I've used for quite some time, can vouch for it :)
<flocculant> well I've certainly got it now :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, what info/data should we collect for mid-next week?
<bluesabre> I can draft up light-locker replacement docs
<flocculant> this is the trouble with desktops and me - I don't suspend, rarely lock so don't use it so miss fails on that type of thing
<bluesabre> (should they be needed)
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> well as far as data goes - not sure - the important data is the bug as far as getting it changed I guess
<flocculant> I can whack a critical test mail out to testers - purge l-l, install x and test quickly 
<bluesabre> Subscribed cavalier so that he might be able to take a look at it as well
<flocculant> could even do a quick testcase on tracker (today/tomorrow) 
<bluesabre> good idea
<bluesabre> lunch break wrapping up now
<flocculant> it could be 1 - purge l-l, install g-s check, purge g-s, autoremove, install x-s 
<bluesabre> let me know if there's anything you need from me and I'll get it together tonight
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<bluesabre> include:
<bluesabre> killall light-locker; gnome-screensaver; killall gnome-screensaver; xscreensaver, etc etc
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> since they need to be active to respond to the lock command
<bluesabre> If you drop it in a pad, I can review it as well
<flocculant> I'll do that soonish - paste link in here - you look at test tonight please :)
<bluesabre> will do
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> ok - thanks :)
<flocculant> have fun
<bluesabre> thx
<jjfrv8> flocculant, I won't be around tonight and possibly not tomorrow either but I just did a quick test
<jjfrv8> purged l-l, installed g-s, checked - OK
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks :)
<flocculant> there will be a testcase on package tracker turn up over the weekend once bluesabre and I have padded etc :)
<jjfrv8> Ok, will try to do a more formal test then.
<jjfrv8> Just did x-s after g-s and that's okay too.
<flocculant> I think Sean will want tests on changing user too
<flocculant> thanks for looking :)
<jjfrv8> Sure. Good luck :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://pad.ubuntu.com/lock-change
<flocculant> knome: do we actually need to do an announcement? 
<flocculant> given it'll say "Yaketty Final Beta" 'There isn't one' 
<Unit193> Well you *can* do it like that, but only for the most basic tests.
<flocculant> Unit193: if you're talking about the pad - then it's not locked or anything you can edit it 
<Unit193> No, not opened it yet.
<flocculant> okeydoke :p
<knome> flocculant, don't think it's critical
<flocculant> me neither - just wanted to double check there :)
<flocculant> with it being the only time I can remember us not releasing something milestone time
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> on the other hand if people are that interested - trawl through irc logs roundabout release time or dev m/l ;)
<flocculant> anyway - cool - just needed to be sure there 
<knome> bluesabre, btw, you'll have all the council duties to yourself the whole weekend - i'll be leaving tomorrow afternoon UTC and returning on sunday evening
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-23
<bluesabre> knome, alrighty, I'll try to not go crazy with it
<knome> ;)=
<bluesabre> flocculant, made some tweaks, thanks for writing up those test cases
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I'll get those written and merged to tracker etc - should be able to get a call out tomorrow 
<flocculant> bluesabre: double check this for me please :) http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/361/builds/117794/testcases
<flocculant> ignore the thunar ones obviously 
<bluesabre> flocculant, looks good to me
<flocculant> bluesabre: k - I'll send a mail to the list when properly back from work
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  I'll get my testing lappy out tonight to try those on real hardware over the weekend and give it some real welly.
<flocculant> pleia2: if you're about - any chance of some social media wizardry for the important stuff just landed in dev mail or in inbox from xubuntu-testers :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - well that's all set up now and called for
 * pleia2 adds to her queue
<flocculant> sorry to add to your queue :(
<pleia2> will this be included in the (now delayed!) beta?
<flocculant> there will be no beta released by us 
<pleia2> oh ok
<pleia2> "I'm calling a halt to testing on this milestone, we will not be releasing the beta due to the lock bug."
<flocculant> seems -release are still pondering respins
 * pleia2 can read \o/
<flocculant> ha ha 
<pleia2> just saw the subject of that email and didn't read further
<flocculant> :D
<pleia2> my inbox is a bit :\
<flocculant> yep - I understand 
<Unit193> ...Sort by who'll get the most cranky if you don't read it, flocculant gets higher on the list. >_>
<Unit193> Meh, locker testing and -session is still stuck in -proposed.
<flocculant> Unit193: yea hence the testcase saying Make sure that you have xfce4-session 4.12.1-3ubuntu3. If not, enable proposed and install it before continuing 
<Unit193> Yeah, sadly not exactly ideal, but a good note.
<pleia2> ok, twitter, G+ and fb done
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks pleia2 - <3
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok so that was fun, I had g-s installed, had upgraded xfce4session this morning
<flocculant> tried lock then guest then logout - blank screen
<flocculant> then I uninstalled xfce4session - then reinstalled the current version - it wanted to install xscreensaver 
<flocculant> seems to have light-locker and xscreensaver as recommends
 * flocculant might do a new vanilla install to test this ... 
<flocculant> this is not good 
<Unit193> Uhh, oh?
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/t69s536.png
<Unit193> That's ugly as heck.
<flocculant> seems to have decided it's half xfce/half xubuntu
<Unit193> Looks like xfwm theme, aye.
<flocculant> what do I nix to set the thing back to defaults again? 
<Unit193> Well, you can rm -rf ~/.config/xfce/ but you'll have to logout/in (making sure to select 'Xubuntu'.)  That'll nuke all xfce settings except terminal.
<Unit193> .config/xfce4  rather...
<flocculant> bluesabre: I seem to be having issues logging out of guest session in g-s, appears to crash pulseaudio too
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks - I thought that was the kiddy - bet I forgot to select Xubuntu :p
<Unit193> cat .dmrc  ?
<flocculant> Session=xubuntu
<flocculant> still fubar
<flocculant> also it doesn't actually appear to be setting to default as I have *my* panel
<Unit193> You have anything in ~/.cache/sessions ?
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> I'll lose those too - but I did session/startup lose cache
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> rebooted - redid them both
<flocculant> glad I told people to Install Y-Y to hardware from the current iso http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<flocculant> rather than use one they had :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: Debian 838610
<ubottu> Debian bug 838610 in lightdm-gtk-greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter: always uses the last session as default" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/838610
<Unit193> bluesabre: You see and test https://packages.qa.debian.org/e/exo/news/20160831T080009Z.html ? :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm - same with xs - new login, logout - dead desktop
<Unit193> knome: For the -devel ML, can you whitelist doko@ubuntu.com?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-24
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> hey bluesabre :)
<Unit193> Esh, on a weekend?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, so, dead at greeter or after greeter?
<flocculant> umm
<flocculant> after logout from guest 
<flocculant> also the pulseaudio crash is odd
<bluesabre> Unit193, that greeter bug is somewhat amusing... you're probably doing it wrong if your computer lab has multiple sessions :\
<flocculant> only g-s crashes pa though
<bluesabre> so logout from guest would be the greeter
<flocculant> bluesabre: obviously if you want a specific u-bug package I'll do that
<flocculant> I just didn't want us to end up with a bunch of bugs all for similar things from people
<flocculant> with little time it'd take longer to sort those out than anything else :p
<bluesabre> looks like there might be a rare greeter bug with it just going black http://osdir.com/ml/general/2016-09/msg22771.html
<bluesabre> all of this really might stem from some ugly bug in lightdm or X.org
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> personally I've not a clue what we should do :p
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> flocculant, logout from guest is bad in either, and pa is just gnome-screensaver?
<flocculant> this business they've got with kernels and beta isn't making it very easy to find time to talk to people 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack
<bluesabre> so definitely some issue exists in lightdm-gtk-greeter, lightdm, and/or xorg
<flocculant> then I ended up with xfce rather than xubntu - but I think that was me not checking the session type
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea I'd say so
<flocculant> but only us - no-one else (including studio) is affected
<bluesabre> flocculant, so we can swap out the greeter to something else to narrow that down
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: have you seen this issue when switching user(s)?
<flocculant> oh btw - I did add a new admin user and try there - just in case it was some *thing* with guest user - no change
<flocculant> and I couldn't get back to the original locked session anywhere with anything
<flocculant> but I assume that's because greeter
<flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps try with the ubuntu greeter
<flocculant> mostly cos I'll hate you if you say lets try kde-greeter :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, I hadn't seen the issue before, tried just now with a bogged down computer, entered guest session, tried to log out, computer froze, restarted
<flocculant> ok cool - sort of
<flocculant> at least that means it's not just me being an idjit :)
<flocculant> I can do some testing later with other greeters easily enough if that helps
<bluesabre> yeah, that should help
<flocculant> I think the busiest thing I'm up to this weekend is eating :p
<bluesabre> we can also throw lightdm out by testing with gdm
<bluesabre> sounds like its going to be a long weekend :\
<flocculant> ok - can you write on http://pad.ubuntu.com/lock-change exactly what you want from me
<flocculant> I can test with new-greeter, then change to gdm and old-greeter then new one - whatever gets us the best set of data 
 * flocculant hopes that there is surely some combination that works 
<flocculant> we don't necessarily need to change - might be we find where the issue lies for someone *canonicalish* to be able to help 
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> looks like I can not log out of the guest session
<flocculant> k
<bluesabre> everything closes and I am left with the dev wallpaper
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> exactly the same here
<bluesabre> screen doesn't flash black, so I don't think its even getting back to the greeter
<flocculant> and not only on the vanilla install but here too - and I ended up http://i.imgur.com/t69s536.png
<flocculant> which was nice ...
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> flocculant, do you know if this is reproducible in a vm?
<flocculant> bluesabre: hard to tell - can't get one back from suspend 
<bluesabre> should be able to test with just locking
<flocculant> 2 seconds then
<bluesabre> there's basically a few things I want to test here... it might be a bug with the greeter, so we can try guest session in ubuntu-mate... it might be a bug in xfce4-session, though I think we're alone there
<bluesabre> if we can reproduce outside of xubuntu, it will get way easier to get help :)
<flocculant> vm crashes coming back from guest user
<flocculant> and yea I know - hence me always trying these things elsewhere
<flocculant> I haven't actually tested other flavours coming back from guest
<bluesabre> I'm going to be testing these things as well
<flocculant> I'll test Ubuntu ... 
<flocculant> that's the best place for us to find reproducibility :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll zsync ubuntu right now - install vm - check guest, be ~15 minutes to a result
<flocculant> in the meantime perhaps you could write some on the pad - so we both test exactly the same things
<bluesabre> alrighty
<flocculant> ubuntu has yak on slideshow :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, what happens when you lock your screen, click switch users, and then just log back in as yourself?
<flocculant> not tried
<flocculant> I'll try in the vm
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> grabbing mate iso too
<bluesabre> lappy updated, rebooting, bbiab
<flocculant> bluesabre: if I lock, switch user, login as me, password, unlock screen, password - back where I started properly
<flocculant> ubuntu takes longer to install ... 
<bluesabre> flocculant, that's good at least
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> booting ubuntu now - fingers crossed in some bizarrely unfair fashion :p
<flocculant> starting mate install 
<flocculant> bluesabre: booted ubuntu, can switch users while at normal user desktop - get the Data in guest session warning - then blank screen
<bluesabre> so guest session does not fully load for u?
<flocculant> not appearing so - redoing now
<bluesabre> oh boy
<flocculant> switching to guest from lock screen
<bluesabre> further into the rabbit hole...
<flocculant> yea - but it's not going to be quite so lonely down there now hopefully
<flocculant> leaving vm for a bit - just in case it's I've got too many running :p
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I've got 3 isos racing each other as they download
 * flocculant wanders to kitchen to make tea - that should be enough time 
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that ubuntu vm is stuck trying to start guest session
<flocculant> and mate is almost installed
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so ubuntu was hung at guest, ctrl+alt+f7 got me back to lock screen, password and back to where I was
<bluesabre> so that's no good
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> mate just works
<flocculant> so there are issues with ubuntu at least 
<bluesabre> and locking/switching everything seem fine with mate?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so Xubuntu - login user, lock, login guest, logout, crashes, ctrl+alt+f7, login user, unlock user - back where I started
<bluesabre> alrighty
<flocculant> bluesabre: and ack for mate working fine
<bluesabre> welllllllllll
<bluesabre> dang
<flocculant> so - we have the same problem seemingly as ubuntu - which I further assume (or hope) to mean we'll get us fixed without having to change locker
<flocculant> bluesabre: you were expecting mate to fail and ubuntu to work weren't you :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, I was at least expecting mate to fail
<flocculant> thought so from reading the pad
<flocculant> bluesabre: how about I install ubuntu to hardware - then ubuntu-bug from there, dupe our one to it - then go from there?
<flocculant> or do you still want to be ready for us to move locker if needed? 
<bluesabre> flocculant, somewhat different though, right? our guest session loads but won't exit, their guest session won't load
<flocculant> oh hang on
<flocculant> regardless of the guest issue - we've got other problems iirc
<flocculant> our bug is unlock from a normal user fails
<flocculant> I think I will still run through the stuff on pad for us - we'll have that data then regardless of what happens when we tell -release
<bluesabre> ok
<flocculant> I'll work through all that this afternoon - add notes to the pad we're using
<bluesabre> I'm getting xubuntu installed in a vm while the others download
<flocculant> okey doke
<bluesabre> I'll see if I can find anything additional
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> omg :|
<flocculant> now I found some thunar thing ... unless it's what I couldn't reproduce of Unit193's ... 
<Unit193> flocculant: Got xfce4-gtk3 exo?
<flocculant> yes - Unit193 I can now reproduce change view to detailed view 
<flocculant> oh yes - got the gtk3 ppa's
<Unit193> bluesabre's fault. :P
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> exo broken in the ppa?
<flocculant> bluesabre: got to fly for a bit now - will crack on later with this lock stuff - will get notes there for you to see when you're about
<bluesabre> flocculant, alrighty, hf
<flocculant> will be about on and off all day, so if you think of anything either ping me or write it on the pad 
<bluesabre> will do
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, poked you about that.
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> can you repoke?
<bluesabre> I miss things :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: just quickly - vm, remove lightdm, add gdm and a million other things - can't switch user :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> so we should do that - then no problem if we go to g-s or xs as there's no way to get to another user :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> brilliant!
<flocculant> bluesabre: what would you say was best thing to bug report against for the ubuntu version?
<bluesabre> flocculant, hard to say... ubuntu-session maybe? the lock screen in ubuntu is part of unity, but the bug is with the session loader
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've got some success going on here
<flocculant> added a new user - normal account
<flocculant> can lock first user - switch to new one - lock that - switch back and forth between them both
<flocculant> seems to be the guest user causing problems 
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Unit193, any idea what the guest user might be related to?
<flocculant> bluesabre: and finally - if you logout of a user - seems to lose any chance of getting back to a locked session
 * bluesabre really wants to blame lightdm
<flocculant> perhaps I should report against that then
<flocculant> I can (Iassume) reproduce all this in Ubuntu, then we can dupe our bug against it - and hand that new one over 
<flocculant> jeez this is a real pita ...
<bluesabre> very
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - can reproduce ^^ in Ubuntu 
<flocculant> and guest kills it
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<bluesabre> that should simplify things :D
<flocculant> oh wait - just see what happens if I log out of one
<flocculant> almost
<flocculant> so if I logout of session in Ubuntu, can resume other locked session
<flocculant> in Xubuntu appears to logout all sessions
<flocculant> but surely if I report in Ubuntu - can just comment for Xubuntu the difference
<flocculant> bluesabre: you sure ubuntu-session? 
<bluesabre> flocculant, not sure of anything
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> ok - well I think I'll report it against kernel - they appear to be worried about that :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: lightdm because you blame it? 
<bluesabre> flocculant, maybe just spam the "also affects"
<flocculant> ok - with ubuntu-session, xubuntu-session, greeter?
<bluesabre> yeah, seems like a good start
<flocculant> so both our greeter and the unity one :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I think we've done enough for the moment - at least until *they* can facepalm
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks a bunch... let me know when we have a bug and I'll see if I can critical it or something
<flocculant> likely we'll be in a position to not change locker do you think? 
<flocculant> worth waiting till we hear from them I guess
<bluesabre> alrighty
<jjfrv8> flocculant, do you still want us to run the testcases as published? Or are there changes coming from your investigation today?
<flocculant> jjfrv8: I'd guess not just now
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1627304
<ubottu> bug 1627304 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627304
<flocculant> don't ask why  it decide to call it unity-greeter - also can't find -sessions to affect
<bluesabre> flocculant, ok, not sure why the -sessions don't show
<flocculant> no idea - much to much like Lp fu there :)
<bluesabre> looks like ubuntu-session is gnome-session
<bluesabre> apt-get source ubuntu-session
<bluesabre> Reading package lists... Done
<bluesabre> Picking 'gnome-session' as source package instead of 'ubuntu-session'
<bluesabre> xubuntu is probably xubuntu-default-settings more than anything
<flocculant> ok - done that then
<flocculant> I've added a comment from our perspective - with our bug, but haven't duped it atm
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks for reminding me - I've sent a mail to the list now :)
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: not much more I can do now afaik
<bluesabre> yeah, I think we're basically waiting for ubuntu proper to take a look now
<flocculant> k - we can move on to the weekend now then \o/
<jjfrv8> flocculant, just saw it, thanks. wfm :)  Good work!
<flocculant> thanks for your help bluesabre :)
<flocculant> I was getting a bit snowed under with all the permutations :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, seems like you did most of the hard work, I only suggested things that might be related
<flocculant> which helped enormously :)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> not even had music on ... 
<flocculant> so it must have been bad 
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: actually I wonder if a mail to the release list would be a better method to start the ball rolling?
<flocculant> if so it might be better coming from you - if they ask tech questions ... 
<flocculant> because currently - this is a blocker for us 
<bluesabre> yes
<flocculant> sometimes it's a bit 'sigh flocculant found another bug for us :(' 
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> I'll just wait now to see the mail
<flocculant> if I've not seen one by Monday I'll get all huffy :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> drafting it up on that pad
<flocculant> been useful that pad :p
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> I suppose I should also report guest session dying on logout in xubuntu
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I'd mention that switching between normal users who are locked would be useful
<flocculant> we both see that, it's only us who have the initial complete fail on lock with light-locker
<bluesabre> flocculant, specifically, xubuntu works when not using light-locker in this scenario, right?
<flocculant> when not using l-l  we have issues with guest, but vt7 brings lock dialogue back as it does with ubuntu
<flocculant> not usin gl-l means we can lock for normal users and switch between
<flocculant> bluesabre: hadn't had time to check all this with xscreensaver
<bluesabre> flocculant, created bug 1627310
<ubottu> bug 1627310 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Guest session fails to log out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627310
<flocculant> should these be added to b/p? 
<flocculant> the original one is atm 
<flocculant> not that we're likely to forget them :D
<flocculant> confirmed that bug
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume I am right in thinking that now we've found ^^ we have a bit more time available (not much) as they'll be wanting us to wait on results ? Though obviously we'll still need time to change locker if necessary and test
<bluesabre> yeah, we probably shouldn't further bombard them with extra stuff unless we know exactly where to look
<bluesabre> how's the draft look to you?
<flocculant> maybe add that Mate isn't affected - might help narrow down where to look?
<flocculant> doesn't appear to be affected
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - that looks fine to me - doom laden enough without sounding like I wrote it :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> alrighty then, I'll send this one out
<flocculant> infinity will at least be expecting some of that 
<flocculant> cheers :)
<flocculant> I bet akxwi-dave is pleased this happened this cycle :p
<flocculant> I can't wait for us to fiddle with file-managers next cycle, I can just watch \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, mail sent
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> Post by non-member to a members-only list
<bluesabre> thought I was in there...
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: best subscribe to it then :D
<bluesabre> just did
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> and now I'll cancel and send it again :D
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> there we go
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-September/003908.html
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> yea - that's what I mean Council AND Tech :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: have a good rest of day and Sunday :)
<bluesabre> and now, time to continue with the day
<bluesabre> seeya flocculant, bbl
<flocculant> I'll be about off and on if you need anything
<bluesabre> great, thanks
<krytarik> flocculant, bluesabre: If there is indeed a difference in behavior between Xubuntu and Studio there, then that'd be the result of the former having been switched to using the systemd user session already.
<flocculant> krytarik: I knew we'd be able to blame systemd :p
<flocculant> I do like "may negatively impact the other flavors in unique and related circumstances" 
<flocculant> so they'd best have a proper look too :p
<flocculant> ok - I'm away with the fairies now for a while
<Unit193> bluesabre: I've not exactly been following entirely.
<flocculant> Unit193: simply put - there appears to only be an issue when guest logs out - ordinary users can logout and allow locked users to log back in
<Unit193> Okay...
<flocculant> not sure that helps you mich lol
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-25
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<knome> Unit193, maaaaaybe.
<knome> tbh, i think he was, but at some point i purged the long auto-approve list
<knome> Unit193, done (re: doko)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-18
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r530 Add top border in Thunar's sidebar... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> bluesabre: we appear to have network in 2 places in panel atm - indicators and notification both seem to be showing it > https://i.imgur.com/UXZhPAg.png
<flocculant> at least on the live boot
<flocculant> installed it's ok 
<ochosi> humm, that sucks a little
<ochosi> i guess that's a session problem
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey there :)
<ochosi> just stopping by briefly on my way out to some entertainment
<flocculant> bound to be more entertaining than here or me :D
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> well i just need to get some fresh air
<ochosi> too many screens in my life
<ochosi> did quite a bit of xfce development in the last weeks
<flocculant> I see that :p
<ochosi> but at least the gtk3 port is starting to be in okay shape
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> the only thing i'm not using on a daily basis is xfwm4
<ochosi> the rest seems to be running really stable
<ochosi> i never have any xfce related crashes or anything
<flocculant> I had to reinstall as it all went a bit wrong - other than things from the gtk3 ppa - all I've specifically built in this install was the pa plugin
<flocculant> ochosi: not something we currently care about, but if ever we do, then installing oem you don't get greybird while 'user' is finishing their personal bit https://i.imgur.com/08VMCC6.png
<ochosi> a-ha, weird
<flocculant> indeed - it's just during the reboot after oem has done their bit
<flocculant> it's not a regression or anything btw, been like it as long as I've been trying that, just haven't commented before :)
<flocculant> knome: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2371768&p=13688124&viewfull=1#post13688124
<knome> heh
<ninetls> ochosi: if you interested I'm using my xfwm port on daily basis and everything works well for me
<ninetls> right now it lacks of implementation some things so workarounds used instead but they are more or less acceptable
<ninetls> regular user won't notice them, it's more design related
<ochosi> ninetls: yeah, only noticed olivier popped online today for a comment or two and he also noted some things that should be dealt with at some point (but tbh i feel he should merge the port to master to move it forward)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: ty for -synaptics :)
<akxwi-dave> here's a weird one guys..  spot the problem... https://imgur.com/a/dDswX
<Unit193> Hmm.. Desktop icons too large.
<akxwi-dave> ð morning Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<akxwi-dave> hmm.. installed version..  https://imgur.com/a/qqPHO
<akxwi-dave> try to try to recreate and record bug if happens again
<akxwi-dave> yup and it does
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: look pretty much size I always see till I set them to something sensible
<akxwi-dave> Hi Kev...  
<akxwi-dave> Its the lack of categories and recent releases on the live session....
<flocculant> oh in gnome software?
<flocculant> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+bug/1688056/comments/27 also failing to search in artful bug 1718182
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688056 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Xenial) "Package outdated" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ubottu> bug 1718182 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu) "Unable to search for new locations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718182
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's actually an xfce issue... I believe
<bluesabre> (See #xfce-dev)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok doke - and yes read that now
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: i can confirm 1718182
<Unit193> Looks like we depend on libreoffice-gtk, which is a transitional package.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-20
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to update that to libreoffice-gtk3 :)
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> new lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings release, https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/+milestone/1.2.2
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<Unit193> Byebye, bluesabre.
<Unit193> That's a transitional package to gtk2.
<Unit193> tacocat: â
<tacocat> ack, will take a look tonight
<knome> Unit193, you're a good reminder, so remind me again when 17.10 is out to start working on landing the slightly updated logo to places with bluesabre 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you about over weekend to sort final beta? 
<Unit193> * New feature: Support also current xfconf versions (4.13.x).  Nice!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-21
<bluesabre> Artful feels a lot faster than previous releases
<Unit193> Sorry?
<Unit193> Hiii.
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's because the cycle's not finished yet ... wait a few more weeks and it should be 6 months like the previous ones :D
<akxwi-dave> flocc
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: , yep I am mate...  got 3 different setup ready for final beta testing
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre: glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that.. 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: cool - not sure when I'll be about
<flocculant> and now qemu is in an even worse position 
<flocculant> mouse not working
<flocculant> \o/ mouse not working in vbox either 
<flocculant> bluesabre akxwi-dave - just so you're aware, if I can't test b2 with virtual - then I'll be doing 1 installation test ...
<flocculant> and from the bug it seems that the only person who cares about that is jibel 
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/621666/ well crap, that's new.
<Unit193> Note to self, never update gtk. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-22
<flocculant> update today brought me ubuntu-advantage-tools (via u-minimal I think)
<Unit193> minimal isn't installed. :3
<Unit193> That package description is so useful...
<Unit193> Thanks for telling me flocculant, it looks entirely useless though.  (Put it on my blacklist.)
<flocculant> -minimal is installed here for some reason
<flocculant> would check them on iso - but can't do any virtual stuff atm 
<flocculant> bluesabre akxwi-dave - re b2 testing note above - unless it works in my un-updated old artful install
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  ack  i'll be doing some physical, as well as virtual installs (on both Xubuntu and Windows)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-23
<bluesabre> Busy couple of days... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/revision/379
<bluesabre> Good news is, I am once again familiar with the greeter codebase
<bluesabre> (and it's a mess)
<Unit193> Ahaha, so that's why you expunged it from your mind? :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave bluesabre - so virtual installs are not available to me ... we'll get 1 hardware result from me
<flocculant> so this ubuntu-advantage thing is not really of any use to our users?
<Unit193> Limited, I'd say.
<flocculant> mmm
<Unit193> (My opinion of course, all rights reserved. :--D)
<flocculant> ok - well I guess I did my bit - shouted out that it's appeared on xubuntu - leave it to the devs to decide what to do \o/
<flocculant> that'll be you and Sean :D
<Unit193> Nothing really.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> To be a bit more clear.  We state for LTSes we have support for 3 years while Canonical dedicates 5 years to packages in main.  Packages in universe (as in, all of Xfce and now lightdm, among others) are only supported by "the community", meaning the Ubuntu security team won't even take action for things in there.  Now, with ESR you have Canonical offering extended life to the release, but at this 
<Unit193> stage "the community" couldn't even upload a security fix to a package in Universe.  So the claim that Xubuntu could get extended support is..Not quite spot on.  Of course, this would help the kernel, openssl, and other such packages.
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.3 released, https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0/2.0.3
<bluesabre> probably won't see it until B cycle
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice! havent had the energy to pick up the greeter ina while... it also has some annoying issues with 3 screens that i need to check out at aome point (weird input issue where you have to click with the mouse into the password entry before you can type)
<bluesabre> It also occasionally gets stuck with multiple monitors as it tries to figure out which one to use
<bluesabre> This has been an issue for a long time though
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i was wondering whether we shouldnt just always show the login box on every screen
<ochosi> but it may not be very easy either
<ochosi> (unless we can meaningfully enforce mirror mode)
<bluesabre> Probably no easy solutions
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-24
<flocculant> bluesabre: we haz issue ... no mouse working on the iso, I thought that was just another symptom of my vm problems - just seen it confirmed on ubuntu forum, given that *this* is something pretty recent, could it be because we added -synaptics?
<flocculant> as it stands - we wouldn't be able to release final beta like this
<flocculant> well - we would of course - but without QA approval :D
<flocculant> actually worse than that - no input at all, mouse or keyboard
<flocculant> ochosi: btw - definitely seeing 2 network icons in panel on the iso
<flocculant> bluesabre: obv tried to purge it - but with no physical input not possible, tried telekinesis but I have a headache :p
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25610137/ is diff between first one I saw with no mouse (21st) and the last working one (19th)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: all that ^^
<ochosi> flocculant: what happens if you kill and restart nm-applet?
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether it's a timing issue, cause in general the trayicon should only be shown if there is no appindicator support
<ninetls> afaik nm-applet started as indicator only when you explicitly pass --indicator arg
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-17
<knome> ochosi, three waves is fine by me
<flocculant> \o/ \o/ \o/
<knome> :)
<flocculant> morning knome :)
 * bluesabre waves at ochosi
 * bluesabre waves at knome
 * bluesabre waves at flocculant 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Drop 96px distributor logo link, removed in elementary-xfce upstream (LP: #1792865) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=dcef16ffd8f7da232af74d76567a880861680def (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove LXD debs from seed @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=f9bc699b4989678216269c1cd3387753f5de31cb (by StÃ©phane Graber)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Unseed aptitude. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=c291c09f7432778a6266dc8d7127299bbd761bec (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<knome> hello people :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: aptitude has been demoted; demote aptitude-doc-en as well @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=b192492ff311a94f3234c6bb23ed212e62359b6b (by Steve Langasek)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-18
<brainwash> bluesabre: is it too late to fix bug 1774046 in 18.10?
<ubottu> bug 1774046 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Thunar should show up by name, if user searches the app by typing in 'thunar' in whiskermenu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774046
<brainwash> the bug is linked to the 18.10 blueprint
<brainwash> so, someone in xubuntu wants it to be fixed
<bluesabre> brainwash: it's not too late, I'll try to work it in this week
<brainwash> nice :)
<bluesabre> the manila folder icons are now on cosmic
<Spass> sweet
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: usr/share/xubuntu/applications/Thunar.desktop: Removed, Thunar File Manager will now be displayed in... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=4add212de743751ae608dfaa2e40123d1f322db3 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> ochosi: care to comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1056978 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056978 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Undecided,Confirmed]
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Disable lock-on-suspend on the live session (LP: #1421443) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c6d1bcaeaf16ec4107745fa6b21019cfc5a97aa7 (by Sean Davis)
<brainwash> bluesabre: no autostarted light-locker in the live session means that manually locking is disabled also. could that be an issue?
<bluesabre> brainwash: nope, locking without knowing the password is a problem :)
<brainwash> I guess
<bluesabre> brainwash: if the user needs to lock the live session (rare situation), they can run light-locker from the terminal
<bluesabre> ochosi: thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1792788 ? Seems worthwhile to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792788 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[Suggestion] Adding more elements to Atril's toolbar" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> gdm3 shows "live user" and does not ask for a password. that needs to be fixed in lightdm-gtk-greeter then maybe.
<brainwash> the username+password issue remains in xubuntu if you logout
<brainwash> and wish to login again
<Spass> bluesabre, there's a possibility it would be added upstream - https://github.com/mate-desktop/atril/issues/331#issuecomment-422350036
<Spass> that said, I think until then it would be nice to add it in 18.10 as a Xubuntu specific defaults, possibly?
<Spass> just my two cents
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, not sure how gdm3 does that, must be a config option somewhere for it to know the user doesn't have a password
<bluesabre> Spass: yeah, saw that (good work), will probably include those for xubuntu
<bluesabre> brainwash: might be related to https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=819198 ?
<bluesabre> suppose I can ask around in #ubuntu-devel
<brainwash> 2008.. mmh
<bluesabre> asked around
<bluesabre> We'll see what happens :)
<bluesabre> <jbicha> bluesabre: casper package, scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin , there is also an adjustment in 25adduser
<brainwash> isn't that for the first login when booting the live system?
<brainwash> after you logout in ubuntu you only have to click on "live user", and that's it
<brainwash> in xubuntu you have to fill in username (xubuntu) and password (empty) manually
<bluesabre> dunno, haven't looked yet
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter is probably missing a ton of logic that gdm uses in this case
<brainwash> probably
<brainwash> bluesabre: could you maybe test this patch? https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1054299/comments/39
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054299 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Race condition in suspend scripts reveals desktop" [High,Triaged]
<brainwash> the suggestion in the last comment in that report does not help either
<brainwash> bluesabre: are you aware that menulibre has a blurry About dialog icon?
<bluesabre> brainwash: will take a look. Also, didn't know about the blurry icon
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily is fixed now, so you can test out the manila icons in bionic
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-19
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<brainwash> ochosi: they fixed the custom action icon bug in thunar https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14685
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14685 in General "Right mouse click in thunar will not display icons for custom actions only" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Spass> bluesabre, is the issue with cut-off name and description in MenuLibre known or should I submit a bug? 1) https://ibb.co/c0WDfU 2) https://ibb.co/i9CVS9
<Spass> I can see it on 18.04 and 18.10 and only when I'm using Polish language, English is ok
<bluesabre> Spass: please go ahead and file a bug for that
<Spass> ok, will do
<Spass> https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1793406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1793406 in MenuLibre "Cut off launcher name and description in Polish translation" [Undecided,New]
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Merge 'tsimonq2/add-policy-desktop-common' into cosmic @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=bd61d4ea1defb5da371ccd84bb29d64337369b7f (by Steve Langasek)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-20
<bluesabre> Slowly but surely, daily builds are being fixed in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<brainwash> bluesabre: now we (Jarno and me) are waiting for you to test the xfce4-session patch
<brainwash> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/388564839/xfsm-systemd.c.patch
<ochosi> brainwash: nice (re: thunar bug)
<ochosi> bluesabre: gah, not again... i've commented on the window border topic so often already
<brainwash> ochosi: it seems to be fixed in daily now anyway, without any thunar changes
<brainwash> unless I managed to download an old daily iso
<brainwash> ochosi: does that mean that you would be against making greybird-accessibility the default?
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> ohh
<brainwash> to close the bug report I would need the reason for that
<brainwash> bug 1056978
<ubottu> bug 1056978 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056978
<brainwash> I know that the window title + buttons look different compared to normal greybird
<brainwash> is that the reason?
<ochosi> yeah, that's one of the reasons
<ochosi> but as i've written above, i've discussed this many times in the past
<ochosi> and i'm not going through that argument again tonight ;)
<ochosi> i'll catch some sleep instead
<brainwash> sure
<brainwash> I guess I'll have to go through the irc logs
<brainwash> to have something to reference
<ochosi> you can also leave the bug open instead
<ochosi> there are so many other more important bugs to close
<ochosi> anyway, night!
<Unit193> Sometimes hard to see the forest through the trees.
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> it may have been the case the opinion has changed on this matter
<brainwash> I see early references from 2012/2014
<brainwash> those were a clear NO
<brainwash> bluesabre: you can mark it as won't fix (window borders)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-21
<bluesabre> brainwash: Done, thanks.
<brainwash> was this discussed yet? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/try-color-emoji-in-18-04/1492
<brainwash> whether to add fonts-noto-color-emoji or not to Xubuntu
<brainwash> ali1234: I'm not quite sure what to do with bug 1769774
<ubottu> bug 1769774 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xfce doesn't set GNOME/Gtk3 dconf keys for theme and font" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769774
<brainwash> leaving it only on launchpad won't fix it
<brainwash> you gotta inform the devs! :)
<brainwash> you've tagged xubuntu-default-settings also. are there any changes needed in x-d-s?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-22
<bluesabre> brainwash: we opted to not include the color emojis, since they only work in gtk3 applications (non-color look the same in gtk2/gtk3/qt/everything else)
<flocculant> bluesabre: supposedly next week is beta week - assuming it happens and I see a reminder that a iso is ready I'll pointlessly e-mail both the lists
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, regarding 18.10 we have the following missing pieces
<ochosi> 1) elementary-xfce update to 0.13.1 for consistent wireless icons
<ochosi> and manila-folder fixes
<ochosi> 2) xfce4-settings latest point release (once it's out, if we're happy with it)
<ochosi> within greybird i don't expect any more important changes/fixes
<ochosi> and everything else i guess can also be delivered after the release
<ochosi> (if we have bugfix point releases of 4.13 components)
<bluesabre> sure thing
<brainwash> bluesabre: new comment in bug 1793393
<ubottu> bug 1793393 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[Suggestion] New custom command (file search) for Whisker Menu and Application Finder" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1793393
<brainwash> makes me wonder if the overrides for custom search actions ever actually worked
<brainwash> also, adding --path=~ to the command makes sense, or?
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh and 3) switch the "symbolic" option to true for statusnotifier plugin in x-d-s
<brainwash> symbolic icons are enabled
<brainwash> just opened the properties dialog in daily
<ochosi> oh ok, great
<ochosi> one less thing to fix
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-weather-plugin 0.9.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-weather-plugin-0-9-0-released-tp51829.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> knome: how's the wallpaper looking?
<bluesabre> brainwash: aha, so that's what we're missing
<bluesabre> brainwash: sure enough, adding that line to the defaults.rc makes the find keyword work
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add file search custom command (-) to Whisker Menu and Application Finder (LP: #1793393) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=37c1122de5db3e6728b5966054c0a2a42a8df223 (by Sean Davis)
<brainwash> bluesabre: you sure that '-' is better than 'find'?
<bluesabre> brainwash: the other keywords are a single symbol, and find really only makes sense to use for the english speakers
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add items to the Atril toolbar for improved usability (LP: #1792788) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=da0417a5340e0a8194022c80492f2938b4857ef2 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> (also faster to type)
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> it's just that I would associate - with search
<brainwash> would not I meant
<brainwash> but oh well
<bluesabre> yeah, that's kind of the same problem with the existing #, ?, ! keywords
<brainwash> does not look like people were using 'find' anyway
<bluesabre> yeah, definitely hasn't ever worked :D
<brainwash> what about '/' for search?
<brainwash> it's odd too
<ondondil> hey, thanks guys
<ondondil> '/' is already used in appfinder with "exo-open --launch FileManager %S" command
<bluesabre> That's currently used for opening directories in the app finder (I thought the same)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ondondil: regarding the other report, can you modify Ctrl+F via Thunar's accels.scm?
<brainwash> personally I don't think that it should be altered
<brainwash> it opens the empty search input field (just like in pcmanfm)
<bluesabre> interestingly enough, if you don't have a file highlighted in thunar, ctrl+F opens catfish, otherwise, opens the in-window search
<Spass> that would probably require a new custom action "catfish --path=%d" that applies only to files
<Spass> similarly to "Open in terminal" one, I think
<brainwash> it does not open catfish for me
<brainwash> but ctrl+f is ignored pretty often when I press it and nothing is highlighted
<bluesabre> I see it when I click a file, ctrl+f (shows the in-window search), press escape, ctrl+f again (shows catfish)
<bluesabre> gotta run now, bbl
<brainwash> nope, no catfish for me
<bluesabre> thanks folks for all the bug reports/triage/suggestions/general interest in improving xubuntu :)
<bluesabre> huh
<bluesabre> even more weird :D
<ondondil> brainwash: yes, I was able to modify that, but unique identifier for custom action needs to exist before in ~/.config/Thunar/uca.xml
<brainwash> what is the <Action> for search?
<brainwash> mine accels.scm does not seem to have one
<brainwash> my
<brainwash> oh. now I get it. you want to override it with a custom action
<knome> bluesabre, pretty close with it actually!
<knome> i can probably show a draft today
<ondondil> brainwash: I have https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nKPRVFPYwH/ in uca.xml and "; (gtk_accel_path "<Actions>/ThunarActions/uca-action-1524816562683873-3" "")" in accels.scm
<ondondil> I edited that line in accels.scm to "(gtk_accel_path "<Actions>/ThunarActions/uca-action-1524816562683873-3" "<Primary>f")"
<brainwash> right
<ondondil> And I also can't get catfish to run without making that change
<ondondil> Doing what bluesabre described I get in-window search every time
<brainwash> he probably added that manually to his config
<brainwash> ondondil: can the ID be stored and then read from uca.xml.in?
<brainwash> that would bypass the ID generating part if it works
<brainwash> bluesabre: what does the /s do? https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml.in?id=d4e1c1717b8784163fc7fba84192132122985bd7
<brainwash> ohh nevermind
<brainwash> /s as in (s)
<brainwash> that got me confused for a moment
<brainwash> bluesabre: "print file" custom action is another thing that does not work :/
<brainwash> you have to separate file types with a semicolon and not a comma
<brainwash> also, you have modify the selection condition -> https://i.imgur.com/58kOyla.png
<TJ-> I'm revisting Bug #1784964 trying to figure out a way to further debug it. It seems like it mostly affects xubuntu due to lightdm. I've hit a dead-end as to how to further debug it. Logs aren't helping.
<ubottu> bug 1784964 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "Regression due to CVE-2018-1116 (processes not inheriting user's supplementary groups )" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784964
<TJ-> Any suggestions or ideas?
<brainwash> but that's not specific to Xubuntu, is it?
<TJ-> I'll get hints from anywhere at this point! I've got a fleet of xubuntu systems and it affects some and not others
<brainwash> this looks like a beast, not sure if I would be able to follow all the information
<brainwash> what is the reason why ubuntu keeps patching this old version of policykit instead of moving to a new release?
<TJ-> it's a weird one for sure, seems like the a user session started via lightdm doesn't get the supplementary groups, which also affects a subsequent tty console login (presumably due to somehow using the same user session).
<TJ-> I'm not sure; I've asked in -devel but never got an answer when I was orginally debugging this.
<TJ-> I have to do the workaround (log-in via TTY first) but sometimes forget -as in today - which makes me revisit it :)
<brainwash> debian sid has 0.105-21 too
<brainwash> 0.115-1 in experimental
<TJ-> I think that's the primary reason - sync from Debian. Until you said that I had forgotten I did research that
<brainwash> TJ-: did you test with debian yet?
<TJ-> brainwash: you mean a Debian install?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> or did I miss some detail?
<TJ-> It's so hard to reproduce I doubt it'll help. This doesnt affect all systems, so there's something in the config influencing this. E.g. the PC I'm on now which is supposed identical Xubuntu 18.04, never suffers it
<ondondil> brainwash: I'm just a casual user so I'm not sure if this is how I was supposed to check this, but here's what I've done: I replaced /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml with this https://pastebin.geany.org/7ogKt/ then removed the content of ~/.config/Thunar/ and rebooted.
<ondondil> After the reboot ~/.config/Thunar/accels.scm got recreated with hardcoded unique-ids from /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml that I created
<TJ-> well, config or a race, based on system speed. We've seen it affect Core 2 Duo, and VMs, but this I5/i7 whatever (faster) never shows it
<brainwash> TJ-: oh boy
<TJ-> brainwash: exactly my thoughts!
<brainwash> ondondil: nice. so the unique IDs could be predefined in the uca.xml.in (with an actual unique name, and not a timestamp)
<TJ-> brainwash: as the policykit-1 fix is about 'race' conditions thats why I think that's the culprit
<brainwash> best thing would be to get the policykit involved
<brainwash> but they probably would want you to test with their latest release first
<TJ-> right. I'm going to try the revert of the changes first, then I'll also try  fast-forward to 115 (if that doesn't affect (build)-dependencies 
<TJ-> I'm off out for a run with my Huskies, I'll report back later on
<brainwash> you can check the package build from debian experimental
<brainwash> maybe rebuild it for ubuntu
<brainwash> ok. cya
<knome> bluesabre, Spass: https://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.wall-1810/draft_03.png
<knome> ochosi, ^
<ondondil> brainwash:  Should I mention this on launchpad then?
<Spass> knome, I think the purple will look great with new manila folders
<knome> maybe
<knome> i feel like this one might need a bit more blue somewhere...
<bluesabre> knome: cool, I like where that is going :)
<knome> :)
<Spass> yeah I like it too
<Spass> thanks for sharing
<knome> of course.
<brainwash> ondondil: I guess so. maybe even attach your modifications (or a diff of them).
<ondondil> Okay, will do
<brainwash> accels.scm only containing the new custom action shortcuts and the modified uca.xml.in
<brainwash> with matching unique IDs
<brainwash> however, there are two "open in terminal" actions
<brainwash> you cannot assign F4 to both of them
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Fix file matching for the Print file/s custom command @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=02a6161bf484d3bbd170a83db011990fd3837505 (by Sean Davis)
<Spass> https://ibb.co/j6W2NU
<brainwash> ondondil: more info https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml.in?id=6e83025026b210709bb82d03a8a0b48120fae8f9
<brainwash> bluesabre: nice
<brainwash> bluesabre: but once again, how did no one notice that? :D
<brainwash> well, now people will be able to easily print files
<bluesabre> brainwash: dunno, maybe Thunar had some fallback code for those scenarios
<ondondil> brainwash: If I only assign F4 to custom action with "exo-open --working-directory %f --launch TerminalEmulator" command, I won't be able to open terminal with F4 when a file is selected and vice versa
<brainwash> that is the issue
<ondondil> I've assigned it to both actions and it works fine here
<brainwash> in list view too?
<brainwash> it may work, but it's something that you cannot do via the graphical editor for custom actions
<brainwash> assigning the same shortcut to several actions
<ondondil> It works with all views. It doesn't work only if multiple files are selected
<brainwash> ok. add that info to the report also.
 * bluesabre waits to release new xubuntu-default-settings until the productive folks are done
<bluesabre> :)
<ondondil> I'll report that later today because now I need to leave for a while
<ochosi> brainwash: it was tested against gtk2 and worked, so it should be ok in 18.04
<ochosi> (the printing)
<brainwash> ochosi: sadly, it does not work in 18.04
<brainwash> the printing action does not show up in the context menu for a .doc file
<brainwash> don't "plain text" and "empty file" create the same thing? https://i.imgur.com/89i4Gb4.png
<brainwash> "empty file" is hardcoded
<brainwash> bluesabre: ^
<brainwash> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/usr/share/xubuntu/templates/xdg-xubuntu-templates?id=dbd6556944bebef88aeaacdd4e0cb0985a8af115
<bluesabre> technically, yes... only difference is Plain Text brings along a .txt extension
<brainwash> well, that is true
<brainwash> it should stay then
<brainwash> bluesabre: there is something broken in parole's Plugins settings window
<brainwash> the checkboxes reset sometimes after reopening the window
<brainwash> the MPRIS2 one can even crash parole
<brainwash> disable it, close the window, now try to re-enable it
<brainwash> that would be bug 1698540
<ubottu> bug 1698540 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole crashes when choosing to open a file if MPRIS2 plugin is deactivated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698540
<bluesabre> brainwash: thanks, added to the bugs bp, will hopefully tackle soon
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-cpufreq-plugin 1.2.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-cpufreq-plugin-1-2-1-released-tp51832.html (by Andre Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-battery-plugin 1.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-battery-plugin-1-1-1-released-tp51834.html (by Andre Miranda)
<ochosi> brainwash: that's odd, it did go through quite some testing, maybe i dont have enough .doc files ;)
<ochosi> anyway, your testing and reporting is much appreciated
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-23
<Spass> bluesabre, seems like not only Polish translation is affected, we now know more about this issue - https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1793406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1793406 in MenuLibre "Cut off launcher name and description in Polish translation" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Spass> Russian is also affected
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you think that bug 1550444 is a duplicate of bug 1374887?
<ubottu> bug 1550444 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole media player segfaults when seeking forward in a video file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550444
<ubottu> bug 1374887 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in parole_provider_player_get_stream_position()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374887
<brainwash> 32bit etc.
<brainwash> ochosi: I think that the fix for https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/issues/71 needs to be done for the 16/22/24 variants also
<brainwash> otherwise the mono style icon is used in whiskermenu or the classic application menu
<brainwash> which is not correct, right?
<brainwash> fix works for 16
<brainwash> I guess because there is no panel/16/blueman.png for -dark
<brainwash> but a panel/24/blueman.png still overrides a apps/24/blueman.png
<brainwash> same for 22
<brainwash> this affects whiskermenu which shows 24px sized app icons in xubuntu
<brainwash> ochosi: the reason why I even looked into this -> https://i.imgur.com/GmMqRaz.png
<brainwash> not because of the mono style icon, but because of the lack of resizing
<ali1234> brainwash: about that font bug: it affects most of Xfce and the only reasonable fix involves convincing GNOME that they should add another parameter to a deprecated API in order to support third party desktops. in other words it's about as likely as convincing them to go back to gnome-panel. i don't know where to start with that. opening an xfce bug probably won't help :(
<brainwash> ali1234: and there is nothing that could be done via xubuntu-default-settings, right?
<ali1234> no, because the apps don't look at that
<ali1234> actually i can't remember... do you ship gnome settings?
<brainwash> gsettings? https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/debian/xubuntu-default-settings.gsettings-override
<ali1234> yes, i think so
<ali1234> so you could set /org/gnome/desktop/interface/monospace-font-name
<ali1234> to match whatever it is in xfconf
<ali1234> i'm not sure that aps will be able to see it though, unless gnome-settings-daemon is running as well
<ali1234> because apps that try to follow the gnome setting just make a dbus call
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm not sure in which contexts the "blueman" icon is actually used
<ochosi> if it's just for the application's desktop file/launcher, then ofc that's easily fixable
<ochosi> and yeah, i could amend the 16px version in -dark
<ochosi> but then again, i'd prefer to know the contexts beforehands
<brainwash> blueman.png for app launcher and (mono style) blueman.png for the tray icon in the panel
<brainwash> those two conflict
<ali1234> blueman icons is one of the two things i had to hack to get my desktop looking right (the other was battery icons)
<ochosi> actually with statusnotifier plugin you can switch to symbolic
<ochosi> so that problem should be mostly gone
<ochosi> (if you use that plugin, that is)
<brainwash> ok
<ali1234> i have never seen that checkbox do anything
<ochosi> your icon theme needs to support it
<brainwash> but panel/22/blueman.png and panel/24/blueman.png are still in -dark
<ochosi> as elementary-xfce supplies a "blueman-symbolic" icon it has an effect
<brainwash> you would need to remove those
<ochosi> yes, because so far we haven't had a single release with the symbolic feature
<brainwash> ah!
<brainwash> well, 18.10 will be the first, correct?
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> cool
<ochosi> and until the next LTS we have some time to figure this out ;)
<brainwash> having that 16px version in -dark would help already
<ochosi> yeah, with certain menus it would
<ochosi> but with small panels it wouldn't :/
<brainwash> small as in 16px?
<ochosi> small as in <22px or so
<ochosi> i don't remember when the panel switches to 16px anymore
<ochosi> but there is a scaling logic i added so the "best" icon size is chosen
<ochosi> anyway, bbabl
<brainwash> cya
<brainwash> ali1234: would it be worth to test if overriding the monospace font via gsettings helps?
<ali1234> i just looked it up and it does help - i have a workaround in my dotfiles
<brainwash> ohh nice
<ali1234> the issue is that if user changes the xfce setting, then the gnome one won't match
<ali1234> i'm not sure if they match by default, but if not they should
<brainwash> not much can be done about that
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/dotfiles/blob/bd661f14e2ff27a7e648ad1b43e69204241e45e0/install.sh#L44
<ali1234> just running that command on a default xfce install is enough to override the setting in gnome apps that use it
<ali1234> i have to have 9.5 pt font because of the weird font rendering in 18.04 :(
<brainwash> I assume that hacking that command into xfce4-settings won't be accepted, or?
<brainwash> dconf write
<ali1234> it might do but the issue is it's supposed to be desktop private
<ali1234> this is where that deprecated API comes into play
<ali1234> the desktop reads its private settings and turns them into xsettings and sends those to the app. that's cross desktop. but there is only an xsetting for "font" and not "monospace font"
<brainwash> but there are only two option left: a hack or doing nothing
<ali1234> well, making it at least match by default would be better than nothing
<ali1234> if it doesn't already
<brainwash> you don't seem to be in the mood to argue with the gnome devs :)
<brainwash> dconf read /org/gnome/desktop/interface/monospace-font-name
<brainwash> returns nothing
<ali1234> it wont if nothing has been set
<ali1234> you have to do something else, i forget what it is
<brainwash> I expected a "default" value
<brainwash> it's probably just "monospace", but which size?
<ali1234> no, the defaults aren't shown by dconf - it only prints something if the user has set a custom value
<ali1234> if you install the dconf-editor you can see the defaults
<brainwash> Xfce reports "monospace regular 10"
<ali1234> yes i think that is the default
<brainwash> dconf-editor tells me it's "monospace 11"
<ali1234> ah yes, that's the default mismatch :)
<ali1234> from dconf manpage "This tool operates on dconf directly, without using gsettings schema information." and gsettings schema is where the default values are
<brainwash> okay. so, it should be set to "monospace 10" in the gsettings.override (xubuntu-default-settings)?
<ali1234> sounds about right. i don't know the technical details of how that stuff works
<brainwash> I'm just wondering if that would help
<brainwash> even if it works
<brainwash> 10 vs 11
<ali1234> its very noticable (especially if you set xfce to 9.5 so that fonts are the same size as they were in 16.04)
<brainwash> that is only one use case though
<brainwash> ali1234: will you add gsettings.override suggestion to your report?
<ali1234> i already mentioned the defaults under 2.
<brainwash> ali1234: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZG9w4CCZrf/
<brainwash> ondondil: looking good re custom action shortcuts
<brainwash> ondondil: the unique IDs could be made a bit more meaningful, like "search-files-3" instead of "3-3"
<brainwash> maybe even without the -3
<brainwash> but that's for bluesabre to decide
<brainwash> I think after all these changes in xubuntu-default-settings it will need some good testing
<brainwash> before 18.10
<ondondil> I weren't sure what to put there so I just wrote those numbers
<ondondil> And I just noticed that someone forgot to edit description field here https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml.in#n31
<brainwash> ondondil: not quite
<brainwash> see https://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/tree/plugins/thunar-uca/uca.xml.in
<brainwash> it is just an example uca
<brainwash> xubuntu's uca.xml.in is missing https://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/plugins/thunar-uca/uca.xml.in?id=be7c64b6ece15d96b16f3ca097070195ebe5629d
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-16
<maggotbrain> ali1234: see https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging
<bluesabre> Unit193: after a busy weekend of running around in Ohio, I'm now around.
<Unit193> Urgh, yeah I hear you.  One our of sleep last night (Sat-Sun), short afternoon nap, and even had to drive up to CLE and pick my sister up from the airport at midnight....Traffic there is always bad.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-17
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you be interested in sponsoring catfish 1.4.10 into debian?
<Unit193> Sure, anything else to add?
<Unit193> (It's set to unreleased)
<bluesabre> Unit193: nope, should be ready to go otherwise
<Unit193> OK, please commit and sign (perhaps after the ACK).  I uploaded.
<bluesabre> Unit193: much appreciated!
<ali1234> ochosi: i have 4.14.1 and it behaves exactly the same
<ali1234> also still got the thing where only two of my monitors go to sleep
<ali1234> if i do "xset dpms force off" then they all turn off
<ali1234> i think this rules out cable problems
<ali1234> although i notice there are three different levels: blank, sleep, off
<ali1234> hmm... i set power saving like this https://imgur.com/yf7ppYE.png
<ali1234> after 1 minute all monitors turn off, then 1 minute later one of them turns back on, then 1 minute later it turns off again
<ali1234> i tried setting each setting to 1 minute and the others to never, in all three cases all monitors switched off
<ali1234> it seems like whatever order the three settings are put in, the second one always causes 1 monitor to turn on
<ali1234> i tried swapping the outputs around and the same monitor still turns on so maybe it is the cable
<ali1234> "xset dpms force off && sleep 15s && xset dpms force off" does not make one monitor turn on though
<ali1234> hmm power manager is just calling DPMSSetTimeouts so this cannot be an xfce bug
<ali1234> yeah i reproduced it with just xset
<ali1234> i read the product descriptions of these cables really carefully and it turns out the cable that works is bi-directional, the one that doesn't work properly is not
<ali1234> i dont see why that would affect anything but i guess the not-bidirectional one is just rubbish
<ali1234> okay, on to the other problem... if i kill xfsettings then my monitors dont all turn off when i unplug one, and it turns on again when i plug it back in
<ali1234> and honestly this is how i want it to behave
<ali1234> also i found that this problem only happens with 3 or more monitors so i suspect it actually is a bug
<ali1234> ah, i think i found the problem
<ali1234> if i unplug my middle monitor it doesn't happen
<ali1234> he other two are identical
<ali1234> how do i get xfsettingsd to print the debugs?
<ali1234> ah i have to set an environment variable... okay
<ali1234> hmm okay so xfsettngsd is going bananas - whenever the monitors change it tries to reconfigure every monitor about 4 times
<ochosi> ali1234: ok, so i tried to read carefully, but what was the remaining problem? something after killing xfsettingsd?
<ali1234> the remaining problem is that when i unplug a monitor, xfsettings turns off all my monitors, permanently
<ochosi> that is very curious
<ochosi> i think i've never seen that at all so far
<ochosi> it has an extra check to never disable *all* monitors
<ochosi> so always at least one should remain, although that check may only be valid for laptops - would have to check in the code
<ali1234> yeah none of that is what happens
<ochosi> just a debug idea, have you tried to save a profile for the two remaining monitors?
<ochosi> that way it should know what to do when you unplug
<ali1234> what happens is it gets confused about what monitors are connected, then goes on a rampage disabling things, trying to re-enable things that no longer exist, and eventually just gives up when it has disabled everything
<ali1234> this is the debug output after i unplugged one monitor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mp36hM584M/
<ali1234> line 70 is where i plugged it back in, due to having a saved profile it eventually managed to restore the settings
<ochosi> and saving a profile for 2 monitors?
<ochosi> and yeah, urgh, doesnt look nice. i wonder though why it would fail to configure your monitors
<ali1234> well it thinks the screen is 1280x176, which is too small for any of the monitors to fit on
<ochosi> that's what randr is telling it though
<ali1234> i doubt that
<ochosi> well it surely doesn't invent the number :)
<ali1234> right, it didn't. 176 is the vertical position of some of the monitors, not the height
<ali1234> so somewhere there is a foo->y instead of foo->height or something
<ochosi> indeed helper->height seems to be off in your case
<ochosi> ok, so your analysis seems to match the code to some extent
<ochosi> it checks whether if any crtcs won't fit into the new screen and as the height is fairly low, it ends up disabling them all
<ochosi> and in xfce_displays_helper_set_screen_size your height seems to actually be helper->y
<ochosi> ali1234: would you mind adding this debug statement? http://dpaste.com/1F7QWWA
<ochosi> just to see if it all goes wrong in line 1267 of xfsettingsd/displays.c
<ali1234> building it
<ochosi> helper->height should be set 0 before this function is called
<ali1234> hang on let me log in to irc from my laptop
<ochosi> that's why i thought we probably don't need that value (and that's also in part what i don't understand about line 1267... cause 0 can hardly ever be MAX)
<ochosi> but then again, that code wasn't written by me and i have a hard time understanding some parts...
<ali1234> size=433x3200, pos=1200x1280
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> you messed up the printf :)
<ali1234> you have more arguments than formats
<ochosi> ah sure :)
<ochosi> i didn't test, sorry
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/n2YgbQgZHs/
<ochosi> luckily that's easily fixable
<ali1234> thats startup, before i do anything
<ali1234> the numbers are right there
<ochosi> total screen size looks ok there
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y9XHXsQJFZ/ then after unplug, the numbers are very wrong
<ochosi> i guess you can try to further debug line 1267 which (wrongly?) calculates height in your case
<ochosi> the problem is without being able to reproduce it's hard(er)
<ali1234> okay i found something
<ali1234> scalex and scaley are 0
<ali1234> so width * scale = 0
<ali1234> so helper->width becomes min(0, crtc->x)
<ali1234> i think i see the problem
<ali1234> when it starts up it loads all the properties from xfconf, including the scale
<ali1234> when it gets a change event it rebuilds the randr cache but does not set the scale on the new objects
<ali1234> if you have only onemonitor then it must be at pos=0,0
<ali1234> this results in helper thinking the screen is 0x0
<ali1234> there is probably a sanity check for this
<ali1234> however if you have twomonitors then one of them is not at 0,0, the position of this monitor ends up being how big helper thinks the screen is
<ali1234> this confuses it
<ali1234> when there is a matching profile itgets the scale from the profile
<ali1234> initializing the scale to 1.0 prevents it from doing weird stuff
<ochosi> sounds like a simple patch
<ali1234> yeah. not sure if it is entirely correct though
<ali1234> i'll make a bug report with the details
<ali1234> when i get out from under my desk
<ochosi> in what sense? that you set the scale to 1.0 initially?
<ali1234> brb
<ochosi> sure
<ali1234> so the problem is that https://github.com/xfce-mirror/xfce4-settings/blob/master/xfsettingsd/displays.c#L1266 scalex = 0
<ali1234> scalex is initialized here https://github.com/xfce-mirror/xfce4-settings/blob/master/xfsettingsd/displays.c#L849
<ali1234> that code only runs when loading a profile
<ali1234> the rest of the crtc is initialized here https://github.com/xfce-mirror/xfce4-settings/blob/master/xfsettingsd/displays.c#L1113
<ali1234> but not the scale
<ali1234> so if there is no matching profile, you get scale = 0
<ali1234> that messes up all the calculations
<ali1234> so the question is should list_crtcs initialize the scale to 1
<ali1234> or should it try to fetch the real scale, and if so, from where?
<ali1234> now i write all this in a bug report :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-18
<ochosi> i would start by initializing the scale to 1.0
<ochosi> but obviously that's just part of the solution
<ochosi> although... actually that may be fine in any case
<ali1234> it will change the bug from "all monitors turn off when i plug or unplug one" to "all monitors scale resets to 1 when i plug or unplug one"
<ochosi> the scale is in xfconf anyway and that's what it should try to load when going through the outputs
<ali1234> which is slightly less annoying, but still really annoying
<ochosi> did you set the scale by hand?
<ochosi> i mean i guess you didn't
<ochosi> cause otherwise xfsettingsd should have remembered it and applied it
<ali1234> no, i never touched any scale setting
<ochosi> all outputs that are connected are remembered in the "Default" profile
<ochosi> so the scale is also retained there and that's what should be applied
<ochosi> i'm just surprised you're the first one to run into this bug
<ochosi> it sounds like i should have experienced it as well
<ochosi> you could try to set the scale values in xfconf to 1.0 for one of your outputs
<ochosi> just to see how that changes the behavior
<ochosi> or to 2.0 if you want
<ali1234> it wont change the behaviour
<ali1234> because it calculates the screen size before the scale is loaded
<ochosi> another issue i see with scale is that one time it's wrapped in #ifdef HAS_RANDR_ONE_POINT_THREE and the other time it's not
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> there are a lot of problems with this code
<ali1234> i'd have to read all of it to figure out hw to fix it properly
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15971
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15971 in Display Settings "All monitors turn off when adding or removing one due to uninitialized values in crtc struct" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> well, i'm afraid that would be the same for me too
<ochosi> every time i have to fix something there i need to read the whole code
<ali1234> well i'll ping perfinion with the bug, since he wrote this code
<ali1234> i'll read the code tomorrow :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-19
<bluesabre> knome: wallpaper?
<ochosi> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-21
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed cloud-initramfs-rooturl for maas @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=5a3de015b237b57b94cdc8ecb4327b698bad51f3 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-22
<knome> bluesabre, in time..
