#edubuntu 2005-08-29
<bob_> what is UTC time in relation to GMT?
<mpt> Normally identical, bob_
<mpt> or I should say, nearly identical
<mpt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
<bob_> ah, right, why not just say GMT then
<Burgundavia> bob_, GMT is very colonial
<bob_> I'm from a very colonial country
<bob_> hmm, well if I have done my GMT to standard time conversion right I should be here for the meeting, now off for some coffee...
<Moongirl^^> good day...
<Moongirl^^> can anybody assist me how to become root user w/ ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
<Burgundavia> it is not recommended
<Burgundavia> and #ubuntu is the main help channel
<Moongirl^^> ok,  I will try it there.. thanks
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW , ogra 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i've edited http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCookbook and it contains what we currently have although I hope i could upload somewhere an HTML of the cookbook
<jsgotangco> More than half of it is done already and needs some revisions but what we should wait is Jonathan's troubleshooting guide
<JaneW> jsgotangco: excellent thank-you
<JaneW> jsgotangco: did you see ogra's screenshots?
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/
<jsgotangco> i havent
<ogra> its the basic work for the edubuntu-artwork package
<ogra> just a first glance
<jsgotangco> ogra, can i send you the html of the docbook output of the cookbook?
<jsgotangco> and put it somewhere?
<ogra> sure
<jsgotangco> is this ogra colony?
<ogra> nope... thats not even uploaded yet... i'm not happy with the way we handle the gdm default theme change (overwrite the whole config) and try to find a better way before
<jsgotangco> man the fonts are beatiful
<ogra> i'm really sad we cant get nvu ... 
<ogra> and i'm still struggling with quanta, which heavily relies on docs that arent in main...
<ogra> but the alternative would be screem, thats very complicated to use
<jsgotangco> ogra, what's the correct email? ogra@ubuntu.com or oliver.grawert?
<ogra> both work
<jsgotangco> sent
<ogra> thanks :)
<jsgotangco> its not yet complete but the structure is there, feel free to give comments
<jsgotangco> i may not know every feature that needs to be added
<ogra> hmm, the edubuntu lab ? 
<jsgotangco> im guessing!
<jsgotangco> give me the correct term
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i think you should drop the paragraph with the cages :)
<ogra> Ideally, the room is secured with a gate and burglar bars on the windows, and the really expensive components of the Edubuntu lab are locked away even further, in another room or in a cage.
<ogra> it might be appropriate for areas where you can expect pupils to steal the stuff... 
<ogra> but i doubt you would have the hardware caged in germany...
<ogra> i think all this securing stuff is ery specific...
<jsgotangco> i can remove them all if needed
<ogra> remove or rewrite it a bit more generic... safety is good, but it wont be this strict in most areas
<jsgotangco> i can just rewrite for best safety practices instead of specifying the nuts and bolts as what they did in tuxlabs
<ogra> i also dont think a switch cabinet is mandantory
<jsgotangco> actually the whole lab layout can be omitted
<ogra> no, but it needs some adjustment for us..
<ogra> i'm just flying over it currently... (we have ui freeze in 2 days... i should rather fix packages ;) )
<jsgotangco> its ok im not optimistic of having this manual by october
<ogra> i'll look closer by the end of the week, just giving a first impression feedback now
<ogra> jsgotangco, i am...
<jsgotangco> thanks
<ogra> there will be not as much to do for me as now after preview, we'll have time to work on it
<ogra> and i'm fine with ignoring doc and artwork freeze for edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ok thats good to hear
<ogra> ...wont upset anyone if we do that in our own realm
<jsgotangco> is the structure/flow good enough?
<ogra> its like a howto... i like it
<ogra> its like a howto... i like it'm just lookig at the printing part... we dont use the http interface in ubuntu
<ogra> oops....
<ogra> hmm, i'm not sure if i like to advise people to crimp their cables themselves... its very erroneous done by a inexperienced person
<ogra> the users and groups part should be worked out very detailed
<ogra> while the ltsp tftp ... configuration should be in place automatically after install ... we can either drop it or leave some generic descriptions how it works
<ogra> we also should have some generic notes about using synaptic to install/remove software
<ogra> much of this last troubleshhoting stuff relies on features that are still under development
<ogra> so we'll have to wait until they are fully implemented
<ogra> but its alerady very good :)
<jsgotangco> yes im fully aware that there so many differences between the tuxlabs and ours
<ogra> but its awesome for a start.... thanks :)
<jsgotangco> it would be much easier if i was not the only one doing heh, but there's no rush in my part, it can be done in time
<ogra> where is Burgundavia ? i thought he wanted to help you ?
<jsgotangco> he has a job lately
<ogra> oh, great to hear :)
<jsgotangco> i will probably be out for a few days i got invited to talk to a series of schools and at the same time spend some time with family on my birthday
<ogra> ok
<jsgotangco> oh! i see we have a meeting later
<ogra> oh, do we ? 
<ogra> i also have a longish MOTU meeting today
<jsgotangco> NEXT MEETING:  Wed 24 Aug 12:00 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting.
<jsgotangco> i'll catch up later then, its grocey day
<jsgotangco> later guys
* ogra grrs at his DSL
<DanielC> Greetings. Has anyone noticed that the instructions on http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation  are numbered 1, 2, ... 9, 1, 2, ... ?
<DanielC> After 9 there should be a 10 and then an 11 :-)
<ogra> whoops
<ogra> my fault i guess
<DanielC> :-)
<ogra> ah, no Documentation... isnt my fault, phew :)
<DanielC> :-)
<ogra> but thats not appropriate for breezy anyway
<ogra> hoary is totally different....
<DanielC> In any event, I'm stuck on step 10 (the one with a '2' next to it :) ). I don't know how to configure dhcpd to serve PXE/etherboot images.
<DanielC> I have hoary :-)
<DanielC> It looks like there is a sample dhcpd.conf file somewhere and someone just forgot to put the hyper-link.
<ogra> i thought you followed http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> its a lot easier
<ogra> (no brainer install)
<DanielC> really?  Ok, I'll follow those instead :-)
<DanielC> This is my first time doing this, so no one expects me to get it all right the first time. :-)
<DanielC> We made a deal with the local school. They don't pay for the service, and they let us learn us use their computers to learn how to setup thin clients.
<ogra> the breezy install is done in 8 steps
<ogra> are they PXE boot capable ? 
<DanielC> Oh, good. The Hoary one is more complicated than that.
<DanielC> We can get ethernet cards with etherboot ROMs.
<ogra> ah...
<ogra> i aim to have the installation down to 3 steps max in the end for breezy
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> That would be awesome.
<ogra> i.e. getting the CD, boot it,adding a admin user, and giving the ip range for the dhcp server
<DanielC> how do I pick a range?
<DanielC> I wouldn't know what to pick.
<ogra> probably a question which interface does what will be needed, if you use two...
<DanielC> 192.168.0.x I guess...
<ogra> there will always be sane defaults
<DanielC> good, I like sane defaults...
<ogra> so you just have to hit enter and have a working environment...
<ogra> i think it will ask for start of the range (i.e. 192.168.0.10), end of the range (i.e. 192.168.0.50) and the default gw (i.e. 192.168.0.1)
<DanielC> I assume that the Edubuntu server is a DHCP server... point being, we should remove the current windows DHCP server, right?
<ogra> you shouldnt run both in the same network....
<DanielC> Ok, that's what I expected.
<DanielC> I've told everyone that they'll have to make the windows server not serve DHCP.
<ogra> do you have 2 NICs in the ltsp server ? 
<DanielC> I can...
<DanielC> do I need 2?
<DanielC> I can just pop in another one.
<ogra> then you can have one for the thin clinet network and one to talk to the win network...
<ogra> so they dont need to shut down the windows dhcp server ;)
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Ok, I'll do that then.
<DanielC> So it'd be:  windows network ---> Edubuntu ---> thinclients
<DanielC> right?
<ogra> yup
<DanielC> ok, thanks for the tip.
<ogra> you'll need to set up forwarding (NAT) on the server for the thin clients though... if the should be able to see the windows network
<DanielC> I have never done forwarding before...
<ogra> its not hard...
<ogra> there are plenty of howtos for it... 
<DanielC> My team-mate says that removing DHCP from the windows server is easy. So, maybe we'll just use one NIC and let Linux be the DHCP server.
<DanielC> That's what I had in mind.
<ogra> ok, as you like...
<ogra> :)
<DanielC> I'll learn NAT forwarding next time I do this :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i think its common to have two NICs in the ltsp server if you are connected to a outbound network with it
<ogra> one for the thin clients and one connected to the network that routes you to the internet
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> If I have two NICs but don't do anything else, will Edubuntu serve DHCP through both NICs?
<JaneW> ***Reminder*** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in 50 Minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
<jamey> Is Edubuntu ready for stable use in, say, a secondary school yet?
<DanielC> Tell you next week :-)
<DanielC> I don't know if it's ready, but I'm going to try it next week.
<DanielC> The official stable release will be in October.
<DanielC> But the school here doesn't want to wait until then, so I'll try using what's available today.
<DanielC> I'm just installing it on my test server right now.
<jamey> Thanks!
<jamey> I'm trying to convince the IT tech at my old secondary school to switch over to it.
<DanielC> You could try starting with just one classroom and see how it goes.
<DanielC> That's what we're doing with this school.
<jamey> Good idea. Where are you located, just out of interest?
<DanielC> Birmingham, UK.
<jamey> :O
<jamey> Newport
<jamey> (the Shropshire one!)
<jamey> They have plenty of old systems we can use as clients, and an old P4 server with 2GB of RAM for testing.
* DanielC doesn't know where Newport is... he just arrived in the UK last month :)
<jamey> lol!
<jamey> it's not very far from birmingham whatsoever!
<DanielC> cool
<jamey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=birmingham+to+newport,+shropshire
<DanielC> thanks
<jamey> np
<jamey> Do you think you're going to have many compatibility problems or any software that doesn't have an "equivalent"?
<DanielC> the company I work for (thelearningmachine.co.uk) specializes on school networks, and we're big on open source.
<jamey> cool!
<DanielC> Possibly, yes. That's why starting with just one classroom is a good idea.
<DanielC> Not *every* computer has to have *every* program.
<jamey> But doesn't every computer have the same as the server, since technically it's just a dummy terminal?
<jamey> Or can you change it per-user?
<jamey> (or group)
<DanielC> We're big promoters of open source. For instance, I was in the OpenOffice.org community council until the last elections (a month ago).
<jamey> cool I love OO.org
<DanielC> Yes, but not every computer has to be running Linux.
* jamey is confused
<DanielC> I'll explain.
<jamey> okay :D
<DanielC> Right now it's easiest to start with a mixed environment. Some computer run Windows and some computers run Linux.
<DanielC> They can save money on the Linux computers.
<jamey> yeah
<jamey> definitely
<JaneW> ogra: do you have a page with the URLs to the home pages of the apps we are including in edubuntu?
<DanielC> And if there is some Windows software that doesn't have Linux equivalents (and there is) it's alright.
<DanielC> They can just use the windows computers for those.
<jamey> yeah
<jamey> which apps don't have linux equivalents?
<jamey> because if it's a typical school, we'll have the same problems I'm guessing
<DanielC> I'm not too familiar with this issue, but the education expert here says that the UK curriculum, for example, requires all pupils to have practice operating a physical device (like a toy turtle) from a computer.
<DanielC> And there is no easy-to-use Linux software that does that.
<jamey> There must be!
<DanielC> It sounds rather specialized, but every kid in the UK has to do this at some point. So no school can migrate 100% to Linux until this gets done.
<jamey> Through an RS2323 serial port or something...
<DanielC> I don't know all the issues. I just started here last month :-)
<jamey> :D
<jamey> do you know which app in Windows is good for what you just described
<jamey> ?
<DanielC> In any event, the schools expert here is Ian Lynch (ian.lynch@zmsl.com). If you want help moving your school to Linux, he's the guy to talk to.
<DanielC> No, I don't know.
<jamey> Cool, thanks very much.
<jamey> Hm, I found this: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Robotics/Software/Control/
<jamey> BTW, are you using Ubuntu now?
<DanielC> On my desktop? yes.
<jamey> Where did you move from?
<jamey> I think Ubuntu really is unique in terms of Linux distros.
<DanielC> I think so too.
<DanielC> I've been moving around a lot.
<DanielC> I lived 14 years in Venezuela, 9 in Canada, and 3 in the USA.
<DanielC> I'm a dual Venezuelan and Canadian citizen.
<jamey> :O
<jamey> Amazing!
<DanielC> :-)
<jamey> :D
<DanielC> Do you think that local school of yours might want to try out Linux?
<jamey> definitely
<DanielC> cool
<jamey> But there is one underlying problem that would prevent them
<DanielC> like what?
<jamey> They are all part of an LEA network
<DanielC> which?
<jamey> TAW
<jamey> you know it?
<jamey> http://taw.org.uk/
<DanielC> Uhm... no, not really.
<jamey> well it's completely Microsoft-run.
<jamey> and it's incredibly slow, unreliable and buggy
<DanielC> :-(
<jamey> I used it for 3 years
<jamey> I know...
<jamey> oh yeah
<jamey> I think a good way to get the thing you were describing (where every child must at one time use a computer to control an external robot) is by using Lego Mindstorms.
<DanielC> Could you double-check that URL?
<jamey> woops
<jamey> probably with a www. prefix
<jamey> http://www.taw.org.uk/
<jamey> yeah that's right ^
<DanielC> yeah, there it is.
<jamey> that site is pathetic
<jamey> it waffles on about irrelevant material and doesn't focus on what it really is
<DanielC> :)
<jamey> apparently, the TAW is the "most advanced" network of its kind in the UK
<jamey> I beg to differ.
<DanielC> what kind is it?
<jamey> sorry *TAW network
<jamey> it's just a sort of domain-based WAN
<DanielC> ok
<jamey> I'm not sure how I can describe that much further?
<DanielC> It's ok.
<DanielC> I'll ask Ian. He probably knows it well.
<jamey> cool
<DanielC> He's been on the education sector for ages.
<jamey> woah
<jamey> he sounds like the guy in the know
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> As long as the school isn't into the Microsoft schools agreement, they could save money doing a small Linux trial. Like, just one or two classrooms.
<jamey> Yeah, definitely.
<jamey> Well when you say "schools agreement" is that separate from the EULA, or just some legal extension?
<jamey> Is it okay if I email Ian?
<DanielC> sure
<jamey> cool thanks
<DanielC> Ian is a nice guy.
<jamey> cool
<jamey> who can I say you are? lol
<DanielC> oh, I'm Daniel.
<jamey> :D
<DanielC> Daniel Carrera.
<DanielC> I'm the only Daniel here.
<DanielC> This is a small company. There are 4 employees.
<DanielC> Not including Ian and his wife.
<jamey> :O wow!
<jamey> so you do all kinds of *nix-related stuff?
<DanielC> Well, "all kinds" would be an overstatement.  :-)
<DanielC> I'm the Linux guy here, yes. But I'm by no means an expert.
<jamey> Ah, cool.
<DanielC> I'm just learning how to setup Linux thin clients. I've never done this before.
<jamey> Me neither
<DanielC> But I have a better chance of figuring it out than anyone else here.
<jamey> Well, I'm experienced with win32 and a newbie in terms of *nix and *BSD. But I'm learning.
<jamey> :D
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> My experience is mostly in Linux actually. I've never owned a Windows computer.
<jamey> :O
<DanielC> And I only touch Windows about twice a year when I go dis-infect my parents' computer.
<jamey> Fascinating.
<DanielC> My first computer was a 486 running Slackware.
<jamey> I've got 30 Ubuntu CDs here from ShipIt, ready to convert anyone I can.
<jamey> That's pretty amazing!
<DanielC> cool
<JaneW> ***Reminder*** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in 10 Minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
<jamey> My first machine was a Compaq 386SX-25 (oh it was a powerhouse!)
<jamey> What sort of things are discussed in that meeting?
<ogra_ltsp> the development status
<jamey> okay thanks
<JaneW> ogra: do you have a page with the URLs to the home pages of the apps we are including in edubuntu? (I have someone hounding me for it)
<jamey> DanielC, well I just sent an email to Ian. It didn't really make much sense (slightly disjointed) but I hope he gets the idea. :D
<jamey> JaneW, http://www.edubuntu.org/ApplicationSelection
<JaneW> ogra: luckilly the meeting is earlier today - I have a wine tasting after - I am sure I won't be able to type at all after that ;)
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<JaneW> jamey: there's no URLs
<jamey> oh sorry, misread that
<ogra_ltsp> i have a horrible long MOTU meeting afterwards... and a mdz awaiting some source changes for the screensaver
<JaneW> perhaps I'll tell the guy to damn well goggle them himself...?
<jamey> JaneW, can't you just search for each one on http://packages.ubuntu.com/ ?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, i'll add links ... there are none yet, i'll have to look them up myself
<JaneW> ogra: not to worry...
<ogra_ltsp> jamey, i guess this guy wants screenschots etc
<JaneW> google even
<ogra_ltsp> yup, i'd do the same...
<DanielC> jamey: Ok. I can probably fill in the gaps.
<jamey> ah okay
<JaneW> ogra: he is getting me to do his work, he asks about 3 questions a day
<jamey> DanielC, thanks!
<ogra_ltsp> bah
<JaneW> and claims we are collaborating, but he is just getting me to find answers to things his boss has clearly asked him...
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<ogra_ltsp> is this the guy who asked for a book on the mailing list ?
<ogra_ltsp> pere, how do you guys handle wikipedia in skole, do you have a hack for moin ? 
<jamey> Has anyone here started an SFD team for Software Freedom Day?
<ogra_ltsp> pere, we just have a discussion about mediawiki security....
<pere> ogra_ltsp: I'm not aware of any special requirements for wikipedia, and do not believe we include anything special for it.
<ogra_ltsp> so its up to the admins to make it work ? 
<pere> I'm not sure if anyone tried.  At least I have not seen anyone talking about such problem.  
<ogra_ltsp> our rationale for including mediawiki was that wikipedia doesnt work with moin, thats why i ask....
<DanielC> Why is gperiodic not going to be included in Edubuntu?  (I don't care, I'm just curious).
<ogra_ltsp> because we have calzium
<ogra_ltsp> kalzium
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> thanks
<ogra_ltsp> and we dont want two apps for the same task
<DanielC> Which is in keeping with the Ubuntu mindset (which I like).
<jamey> I really like that too.
<DanielC> Does anyone have any experience on whether primary school kids should get KDE or Gnome?
<jamey> Hm, I've done informal testing... we had two workstations with a KDE and then a Gnome desktop. Everyone seemed to prefer the Gnome desktop... but then they were primarly early-on secondary school students (year 7 and 8).
<jamey> So, unconclusive I suppose but it's Gnome in my eyes.
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> I admit that my bias is for Gnome, but I'm trying to not let my bias get in the way too much.
<jamey> I suppose it's an age-old question but this time it's really relevant
<DanielC> yeah...
<jamey> Both of them provide a lot of Windows-like interfacing
<jamey> which is what they will be "used to" but it's really instead what is "better" for them
<DanielC> KDE is more windows-like but I count that as a minus :)
<jamey> I was hazardous as to whether I should say that. :D
<jamey> definitely a minus
<DanielC> :-)
<jamey> Do you have any ideas for promoting FOSS?
<DanielC> I do actually...  http://theingots.org  :-)
<DanielC> This is a project that we are starting.
<DanielC> It's a certification for school kids.
<DanielC> The thing about it is that it requires kids to learn about FOSS, open standards and compatibility.
<DanielC> So it's a way to educating kids. And it's designed to make teacher's life easy.
<DanielC> We currently have 50 schools in the UK doing this, and it's been working very well.
<DanielC> The schools like it because it's easy for them to do, and the kids get a certificate.
<DanielC> We like it because kids learn about FOSS and we get (I think) 2 pounds per certificate.
<DanielC> There are 3 levels: Bronze, Silver and Gold. The Bronze level should be accessible to almost anyone. For example, in Bronze they need to learn that some programs are free to copy and others aren't.
<eps> evening all
<DanielC> In Silver, they have to burn a CD of a FOSS program and give it to someone who'd find it useful.
<DanielC> In Gold they need to contribute 25 hours to a FOSS project.
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> eps: evening
<eps> how are you all tonight?
<DanielC> doing well.
<DanielC> most people are in a meeting right now...
<eps> so I guessed, :)
<eps> ...I might sit in the meeting channel as switching tabs is painfully slow - using ubuntu on a 733mhz box and it doesn't multi task as well as my home system :P
<Petaris> anyone know of a good molecular viewer for kids
<Petaris> you know something simple that will show H2O and such
<DanielC> There's probably something here:  http://www.edubuntu.org/ApplicationSelection
<DanielC> let's see...
<DanielC> If all else fails, let them play with atomix.
<DanielC> Ghemical looks good.
<DanielC> http://www.uku.fi/~thassine/ghemical/
<DanielC> It says here that it's a big buggy. But you can try it.
* Petaris looks
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> if its easy enough to use that might work
<eps> this poor ubuntu box hates life :(
<Petaris> eps: run getoo on it ;)
<Petaris> er, gentoo
<DanielC> Petaris: I hope it is. I've never tried it. But I think I will this week.
* DanielC waves his "Ubuntu rulez" flag.
<eps> hahaha
<eps> gentoo isn't an option :)
<Petaris> DanielC: I found a ton of them but they are mostly college level apps
<eps> this computer is the test bed to possibly sway a large percentage of the schools in this state to switch to linux for part of their teaching :)
<eps> it needs to be as simple and sexy as possible
<DanielC> eps: thin clients then?
<eps> to bad it is crap and old :P
<DanielC> It's probably the easiest way to make a 700 Mhz computer simple and sexy.
<Petaris> eps: which state?
<DanielC> I have a 900 Mhz computer with Ubuntu and i like it.  But a lot of people like more eye candy than what I have.
<DanielC> Don't take me wrong, my computer looks really good to me :)
<eps> Petaris, I believe you are in a different country to me(?), are you familiar with Australian states?
<DanielC> sure we are!
<eps> DanielC, this one is running LAMP in the background :) ...well the L in the forground
<Petaris> eps: not really
<DanielC> :-)
<eps> Petaris, one of the bigger ones :)
<DanielC> western Australia is big.
<eps> not that one :
<eps> second biggest
<eps> queensland :D
<DanielC> I have a good friend in Queensland!
<DanielC> I've been wanting to visit.
<eps> I've already worked at getting the schools to move to php over asp, didn't get overly far but this is attempt two :)
<DanielC> Maybe I will some day. She says it's nce.
<DanielC> nice.
<DanielC> Not too many evil snakes.
<DanielC> Petaris:  http://www.staffordmall.com/media/australia-map.gif
<eps> yes, we have one of the highest percentages of dealy animals on the planet
<DanielC> I hear it's the highest.
<DanielC> I hear that in Australia everything wants to kill you :)
<eps> I would not be suprised :P
<eps> yeah, the drop bears are terrible
<eps> (excuse any horrid spelling it is late here and I haven't slept for two days :P)
<DanielC> :)
<eps> that map is also horrid :P
<DanielC> it's functional...
<eps> hahaha, I love where the ACT is :P
<eps> mmmm, who ever made that map knows australia like the back of their hand alright!
<eps> hehe
<DanielC> what's the ACT?
<DanielC> I assume it has something to do with the capital and all...
<eps> it is the state created for the capital yes
<eps> canberra is located within
<DanielC> I just got another map, and it puts ACT someplace else.
<DanielC> further inland
<DanielC> and a heck of a lot smaller.
<DanielC> http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~ldangerm/australia/map.gif
<eps> I bet it does :)
<DanielC> :-)
<eps> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> I think I've probably read this before.
<DanielC> I'm an avid Wikipedia reader.
<eps> hehe :P
<eps> I tend to use wikipedia a lot,
<eps> I like how every post can be argued in the background so you can read the "facts" and then see if people believe there is bias or not
<DanielC> yeah
<eps> I worry that edubuntu lacks the structure required to push forward a distribution? ...though that is only a first view comment as I've only read the site and been in channel
<DanielC> well, edubuntu technically doesn't exist yet.
<DanielC> the first release will be in October.
<DanielC> I wouldn't expect them to have a full structure or whatever else set up right away.
<eps> how long has the idea existed?
<eps> ...at least for edubuntu
<DanielC> I only heard about it a few months ago.
<DanielC> I first heard about it 2 months ago I think.
<eps> that is a worry :|
<DanielC> A first priority is to just get a stable software distribution when Breezy comes out.
<eps> ...
<eps> why?
<DanielC> uhm... because otherwise edubuntu is just vaporware.
<jsgotangco> eps: it was planned last april
<jsgotangco> but unfortunately, real development came in quite late
<jsgotangco> and the X.org problems didnt help either
<DanielC> in other words... real life  :-)
<jsgotangco> so its really not vaporware :)
<eps> vaporware normally has some thing edubuntu seems to lack, clear dot point reasons for its existance and why people should use/put effort into its future
<DanielC> Edubuntu has that I think.
<eps> where? and why isn't it right at the top in the wiki...
<eps> this is important stuff that every one should know and agree on
<DanielC> Ubuntu is a solid base point on which to build an education product.
<eps> ...at least in my opinion
<jsgotangco> and besides, Edubuntu is basically Ubuntu with LTSP
<jsgotangco> we will grow into that base
<eps> yes but you haven't defined what an education product is
<jsgotangco> not promise a super distro
<DanielC> eps: schools are complex environments, with underpaid maintainers and malicious users. For starters, you need a system that can be installed and used reliably in that environment.
<eps> I am part of an open community project here and several years ago we started in the same sort of fashion, now as the project has grown we are being forced to organise ourselfs which is very complicated as the development has been so patchy
<DanielC> The next step is to select software that is useful in education. You may need to look at specific countries' curricula for this.
<eps> (as I said, please _please_ ignore spelling :P)
<DanielC> I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
<eps> okay, what is edubuntus goal in four words.
<DanielC> 4 words is not a lot :-)
<DanielC> your question was more than 4 words.
<eps> I shall give you an example, simple, secure, fun, useful
<DanielC> I am not a fan of quick catch-phrases. They have a way of obscuring any useful information.
<eps> this is a summary being forced into a smaller area to try and show my point, useful information should be quickly at hand :P
<DanielC> how about two: usable, educational
<eps> great!
<eps> now how do you plan to do that over a period of time?
<DanielC> me?
<eps> no
<DanielC> I'm not in the edubuntu team!
<eps> edubuntu :P
<DanielC> :-)
<eps> the project
<DanielC> You my want to try asking one of the developers  ;-)
<eps> what I'm really trying to say is I can't see edubuntus future direction, if you just look for short term goal posts it is worse than catch-phrases because people become lost
<DanielC> But they do seem to have a plan. For example,  http://www.edubuntu.org/ApplicationSelection
<eps> I'd rather ask you :)
<eps> or an every day person interested in it :|
<DanielC> and this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu
<DanielC> They seem to have thought about this well, and have a fairly clear plan.
<DanielC> Indeed... they seem to have a very clear plan.
<eps> it seems they do
<eps> so why is that so hidden?
<DanielC> wha's hidden about it?
<eps> it isn't the introduction to the site :)
<DanielC> It's right on the front page.
<DanielC> The front page has a big title that says "Specification".
<eps> where?
<DanielC> and that's where I found this link.
<DanielC> It was in the first place I looked.
<eps> oh you mean the link half way down the page after so many links people will possibly just ignore it? :P
<DanielC> It was the *first* link I tried.
<eps> I don't mean to be overly picky but this is just the thing I saw as I started looking at edubuntu today
<DanielC> Notice that links are separated in clear headers, well organized.
<eps> and I notice that there is far to many of them
<jsgotangco> eps: the wiki page listed was an original spec by the Ubuntu and K12LTSP people
<jsgotangco> i was in that brain storming
<eps> jsgotangco, how does that effect me? 
<DanielC> The first section tells you, in simple terms (2 paragraphs) what Edubuntu is. The rest of the page is clearly organized under easy to see headings.
<jsgotangco> eps: it means that Edubuntu is not a one-shot project that came out of nowhere
<DanielC> eps: You just asked for mutually exclusive goals. You want it short, but it you want it complete and clear.
<eps> I would have closed the page after losing interest rather quickly because the information I wanted wasn't at hand right away...  the only reason I am here is because this does interest me :P
<DanielC> The short description is the first paragraph of the front page.
<jsgotangco> eps: you can help out instead of bitching about it
<jsgotangco> shape the project
<eps> jsgotangco, no I cannot.
<DanielC> The details of how they will achieve the goal and what the precise requirements are can be found under Specifications.
!lilo:*! services re-up in process
<eps> I am completely new, so I have no indepth knowledge of the group at the moment so changing things in any fashion would be a waste of time.  what I am trying to do is point out, as some one completely new, is that I don't believe the project is clear enough.
<jsgotangco> eps: we started late, yes i admit, but we didn't steer away from our goals some software cannot be added in the feature set for a lot of reasons
<eps> why isn't the specifications link (the dot points on the project) right after the introduction
<jsgotangco> so we had to be conservative in our initial goas
<eps> jsgotangco, software doesn't bother me
<jsgotangco> and it didnt help that Ubuntu breezy development itself had a lot of problems this cycle
<DanielC> eps: it's not like it's hard to find.
<eps> okay, I'm a new user.  breezy and software intents don't interest me, I want to know about the project and what it hopes to do in a clear statement - say the introduction on the wiki, with an easy link to some thing far more indepth :)
<DanielC> eps: the page is very well designed (and yes, I have studied usability).
<eps> DanielC, it was impossible to find.  I was browsing, I read the introduction, scrolled - saw the chat section and closed the page.
<DanielC> impossible?
<DanielC> I am new here too btw.
<eps> the only reason I came in eariler today was that work was boring and I had freenode open :P
<DanielC> This is my first time (first day) actually trying to use Edubuntu.
<DanielC> I've just "heard" about it before.
<jsgotangco> DanielC: did it work?
<DanielC> And I found the link on the first try.
<DanielC> jsgotangco: I'm on step 2 of the instructions  here http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<eps> DanielC, impossible to find, I spent maybe 30 seconds on the site before I left becaus the infromation I wanted wasn't "right there".  others I know that read it closed it long before then - one of which is a teacher :P
<DanielC> jsgotangco: The installation went well. It had problems with X, but running 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' fixed it.
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> JaneW: look! http://linux.org.ph/events/linuxworld2005
<DanielC> eps: And you expect this same person to want to read the specifications page right away?
<eps> DanielC, no, I expect the option to be available in plain view
<eps> a "more info" link or some thing with more indeth information
<DanielC> eps: The first paragraph tells you about what Edubuntu is. If you want to find out the nitty grinny details of how they plan to do this, I'd expect that you'd be willing to scroll down half a page.
<JaneW> jsgotangco: awesome
<JaneW> jsgotangco: do us proud!
<jsgotangco> JaneW: demo scares me
<DanielC> eps: People who are not interested in scrolling down so much (which is perfectly fine) are not likely to want to read the details.
<eps> DanielC, I did scroll - I only found the chat channel location easily then I left
<DanielC> The chat channel has *one* line. You didn't scroll further than that?
<eps> DanielC, I only have limited understanding in the field of usability.  enough to know how to write a webpage that will attract and keep users so I don't get fired, and I am a user.  so I know you must be right as you have the knowledge, but this is just my opinion.
<eps> DanielC, I scrolled because I was bored a bit before I went back to the ubuntu site
<DanielC> If the issue was that there is a lot of content before the specifications page, I'd be on your side on this, but there isn't.
<eps> there is three sections, it should be directly under or a new page defining basically the same thing but simpler should be created and linked to from the introduction
<DanielC> A "more info" link would be incredibly vague.
<DanielC> Should that point to documentation? specification? contact info?
<eps> my complaint is this, the hook information is there - enough to keep some one on the page to find out more, but the way to get more is hard to find.
<eps> DanielC, it isn't my project.
<jsgotangco> ahhh unforutnately that is the wiki way
<mpt> What's the problem here? Edubuntu's front page?
<eps> jsgotangco, rubbish :P
<jsgotangco> and moin isnt the greatest in organizing
<jsgotangco> mpt: seems so
<eps> mpt, access of information easily
<ogra_> mpt, the localization
<eps> jsgotangco, also, if wiki is the core problem why use it?
<mpt> It's very long, and there's a huge amount of whitespace next to the people
<eps> that is only minor in my mind unless you lack a scroll wheel :)
<mpt> or unless you have a computer screen that's less than 4000 pixels high
<mpt> A lot of the length is unnecessary, too, e.g. "Documentation Edubuntu related documentation can be found in EdubuntuDocumentation"
<mpt> That tells me nothing in several different ways
<DanielC> :)
* mpt bonks the Edit button and sets to work
<jsgotangco> i will let mpt do the UI stuff
<jsgotangco> :)
<mpt> ok, first thing, the first text the page has is ... a link to itself
<mpt> >BLAT<
<eps> can I suggest adding a xmpp client? now that our lovely friends at google want to start supporting jabber I'd love to see every one using it ;P
<eps> haha
<DanielC> mpt: he he
<eps> ...good thing I didn't click any links
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Aug 31 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<mpt> eps: Maybe you did and didn't notice
<mpt> :-)
<eps> I have been living off coffee for most of the day so it is very possible :P
<eps> I might have even clicked a few times :|
<ogra_> JaneW, i probably wont be around on Aug 31
<JaneW> ogra: ok - should we reschedule?
<ogra_> JaneW, its my mothers b-day
<JaneW> ogra: :)
<ogra_> would two days later work too ?
<mpt> http://www.pixelscapes.com/spatulacity/button.htm
<JaneW> fri?
<ogra_> is it a fri ?  
<JaneW> yes wed + 2 = friday usually ;)
<eps> hehe
<JaneW> ok same time friday...
<ogra_> every day is fine with me... but i'll have to travel some 100 km to her and i'm not sure about my connectivity during this time
* jsgotangco emails flint about grand evil plans
<JaneW> will you be away on the fri too?
<JaneW> flint is a trouble maker!
<ogra_> i'll make sure to be around again
<jsgotangco> JaneW: this friday or next friday?
<JaneW> NEXT
<jsgotangco> oh right
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 2 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<jsgotangco> this friday we have doc meeting
<jsgotangco> heh
<eps> ogra where do you live that 100km is a long distance?
<ogra_> eps, its about 400km ... in germany...
<ogra_> eps, i said some 100km
<DanielC> eps: In Europe 100km is a long distance :-)
<DanielC> eps: Remember that Europe is smaller than Australia.
<ogra_> heh, a bit, yes
<JaneW> in Cape Town 100km is far
<JaneW> in the rest of SA not
<jsgotangco> same here
<JaneW> but we have a big fat mountain to circumnavigate...
<jsgotangco> 100km of manila traffic is terrible
<JaneW> makes 10km awkward sometimes
<jsgotangco> JaneW: are you going to Montreal?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: seems so...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: can you see how keen I am
<JaneW> ?
<JaneW> lol
<jsgotangco> heh
* JaneW gets tired just thinking about another week like Syndey
* mpt removes a link to a non-existent page and wonders if anyone will notice
<jsgotangco> JaneW: 2 weeks
<JaneW> nod
<JaneW> 2.5 in my case
<ogra_> jsgotangco, nope... only one for the distro team
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> 2nd week is launchpad
<JaneW> 26 Oct to 11 Nov (plus a day travel in each side) close to 3 weeks I think
<jsgotangco> JaneW: did you see the html preview i sent to ogra a few hours ago?
<JaneW> oh not yet...
<JaneW> lemme look
<JaneW> wait where is it?
<JaneW> was the link on IRC on in an e-mail...?
<jsgotangco> err i have it in my other laptop...
<ogra_> JaneW, i just forwarded it
<jsgotangco> but wait 
<jsgotangco> oh there you go
<ogra_> sorry, i thought you were on cc
<JaneW> I did see something earlier must have been on IRC
<ogra_> yup
<JaneW> nothing yet...
<ogra_> give the mailservers a minute ;)
<random003> bah, australia sucks for broadband :(
* jsgotangco thinks what should i file today in bugzilla
<mpt> ogra_: How many minutes is "as few clicks as possible"?
<ogra_> mpt, hmm, i never measured... but a bit longer then a ubuntu install
<mpt> half an hour? an hour? two hours?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: looking good - getting bigger
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I take it the pics will be visible when viewed from the server?
<ogra_> mpt, currently its ubuntu~20min for me and edubuntu ~1h but thats with ~30min download time for the ltsp environment... mdz will change that to work from CD in the future
<jsgotangco> JaneW: should be i'm no scripting master but i should have it worked by then
<ogra_> mpt, its hard to predict as logng as our CD isnt fully functional
<jsgotangco> JaneW: im just dumping text at the moment
<jsgotangco> JaneW: smart dumping i may add
<JaneW> looks smart ;)
* JaneW 's reminder says it's nearly time for wine tasting... ;)
<jsgotangco> :(
<jsgotangco> you drink wine while i eat crumbs...
<epssy> :P
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oi you've had beer already!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: anyway it's an office Team Building thing 
<jsgotangco> its not that great really
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> how come my former job didnt have wine tasting as team building
<epssy> lol
<JaneW> jsgotangco: one perk of driving all the way the the TSF offices is we get to join their socials...
<jsgotangco> JaneW: drink a glass for my birthday
<JaneW> jsgotangco: will do - today???
<jsgotangco> sunday
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> well happy birthday for Sunday!
<jsgotangco> not really going to do much heh
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i just received an email
<jsgotangco> i am vindicated
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> my alma mater invited me to do a talk
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> the recognition you deserve...
<epssy> goodnight all
<ogra_> night epssy 
<jsgotangco> good thing these invitations come when i am quite free at the moment
<epssy> :)
<JaneW> bye all
<JaneW> tomorrow
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i actually dated my professor once
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oic.... I won;t ask the gender ;)
<JaneW> *duck*
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<JaneW> or age!
<jsgotangco> :P
* JaneW profs were all old and ulgy
<JaneW> and in some cases smelly too
<JaneW> cleary I studied in the wrong field
<jsgotangco> haha
<ogra_> JaneW, arts is good ;) you can see nice male nudes in the painter classes ;)
<jsgotangco> i should have taken medicine...
<ogra_> are you ill ? :p
<jsgotangco> no just have no focus career wise at the moment
<jsgotangco> a few pints will always do this hehe
<ogra_> medicine against career *g*
<jsgotangco> did i read that right that you were a nurse???
<ogra_> nope, not a nurse...
<ogra_> rather replacement for missing bodyparts :)
<jsgotangco> ehhh???
<ogra_> the medicine stuff was done by real nurses
<jsgotangco> oh wait they call it something
<ogra_> i cared for handicapped people, especially for young dying ones below 40
<ogra_> but i'm not allowed to give shots etc....
<jsgotangco> hmm i dont think i can do that kind of job
<Petaris> hrm, looks like ghemical is broken
<ogra_> in what way ? 
<ogra_> ( i mean we dont use it anyway, but you should file a bug in malone about it)
<ogra_> (so MOTU can fix it)
<wen> HI
<DanielC> hi
<wen> are u a teacher?
<DanielC> nope
<wen> sorry, what is the meaning of "nope"? Is it english?
<DanielC> It's a way of saying "no".
<DanielC> I am not a teacher.
<jsgotangco> its slan
<jsgotangco> g
<wen> i see
<ogra_> IRC slang :)
<DanielC> "yup" means "yes" and "nope" means "no". Some people like to use those words.
<ogra_> yup
<DanielC> :-)
<mpt> and not just on IRC.
* ogra_ is a typical candidate
<jsgotangco> yeah
<DanielC> yup
<wen> i am wondering why u are interesting in developping a Linux version for education since u are not teacher.
<jsgotangco> wen: what's up?
<jsgotangco> wen: teacher's can't develop sometimes thats where we come in and help them out
<DanielC> wen: I am not a developer. I am interested in learning Edubuntu so I can set it up in local schools.
<ogra_> wen, because most teachers are not developers, but should be able to benefit from open source software
<DanielC> wen: I work with a guy who /is/ a teacher though.
<DanielC> wen: And I used to be a teacher myself, though in university.
<jsgotangco> wen: i am not an educator myself but i am interested in the improvement of teaching methods
<ogra_> we have some teachers around here from time to time
<wen> are there some teachers of K12 in Edubuntu develop team?
<ogra_> not yet, but the k12ltsp people are working with us...
* ogra_ doesnt know if jeff elkner is a teacher though
<DanielC> wen: Edubuntu is a young project. Maybe it will later.
<jsgotangco> ogra_: yup
<wen> now i have a problem in compiling my own kernel, could somebody help me?
<DanielC> why do you need to compile a new kernel?
<jsgotangco> ogra_: colin (applegate) is elkner's student
<ogra_> jsgotangco, ah
<ogra_> oki
<DanielC> wen: I've never met someone with a good reason to get a new kernel.
<ogra_> wen, we dont compile kernels in ubuntu, there is no need for that
<wen> i just try compile my own kernel for a test
<DanielC> I haven't compiled a kernel in 5 years... I'm not sure I remember how.
<DanielC> make xconfig I think.
<jsgotangco> you only compile if you really have something really different to do
<jsgotangco> the last thing i really compiled was slackware
<wen> Edubuntu will focus on acting as the school's server or students' desktop OS?
<jsgotangco> i haven't even mentioned gentoo
!lilo:*! If you've been having difficulty maintaining a TCP connection on the production network, please try the test network and see if you have the same problems. Server: irc.freenode.net; port: 9001 .... thanks!
<ogra_> wen, edubuntu will be a standaolne ltsp server by default aimed to one classroom... it will also have a  option to install a standalone workstation for home use
<wen> is ltsp based on FC and edubuntu based on Debian?
<jsgotangco> ogra_: do we use bugzilla or malone?
<ogra_> jsgotangco, bugzilla for main and malone for universe
<ogra_> wen, nope edubuntu is based on ubuntu
<ogra_> wen, ltsp is one package of edubuntu... developed in ubuntu
<DanielC> wen, edubuntu is based on ubuntu, and ubuntu is based on Debian.
<wen> is ltsp not the "k12ltsp" (www.k12ltsp.org) linux distribution?
<DanielC> I think so.
<DanielC> I think it's the same... someone will correct me if I'm wrong :-)
<ogra_> wen, ltsp in ubuntu is completely new developed from the ground up
<DanielC> I did not know that.
<DanielC> why is that desirable?
<ogra_> security, upgradeability
<DanielC> is k12ltsp insecure?
<ogra_> it opens X to the world.... doesnt support encryption
<jsgotangco> ogra_: it worked!!!!!!
<ogra_> i personally consider it insecure
<ogra_> yay
<DanielC> ok, thanks
<DanielC> I'll trust your judgement :-)
<jsgotangco> i connected the two laptops
<jsgotangco> what a sucky login page though is this xdm?
<ogra_> DanielC, our ltsp is built to work over ssl tunnels instead of open X exports
<ogra_> jsgotangco, :p
<DanielC> cool
<ogra_> jsgotangco, i wrote the gui
<jsgotangco> reminds me of gnome 1.0
<jsgotangco> acckkk sorrryyy
* jsgotangco hides
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> jsgotangco, i know it sucks ;)
<jsgotangco> it works
<ogra_> but its classes better then what we had before :)
<jsgotangco> we'll worry about aesthetics later
<jsgotangco> hmmm its quite fast...possibly because im only on cross cable?
<ogra_> jsgotangco, tahts what we discussed at the meeting...
<ogra_> jsgotangco, nope, it *is* quite fast ;) but boots slower then k12
<jsgotangco> ooppsss sorry...i should just read th scrollback
<highvoltage> is editing html programming? ubuntu puts bluefish and quanta under programming.
<highvoltage> weird.
<DanielC> maybe if you have Javascript :)
<DanielC> or php!
<ogra_> nvu is in internet and programming
<DanielC> php sure is programming.
<mwest> HTML, JavaScript and PHP are not programming :-)
<DanielC> PHP is definitely programming.
<DanielC> What is programming that PHP doesn't have?
<macgyver2> mwest, what is your definition of programming?
<mwest> DanielC: it's scripting ;)
<mwest> macgyver2: I'm mostly being facetious - happens when you have a CS degree :-)
<DanielC> uhm... what makes a language scripting but not programming?
<macgyver2> mwest, I was half-serious :)
<highvoltage> ok. if you say so. bye!
<mwest> it basically stems from the fact that IS majors tend to think they can programme because they "know Visual Basic"
<macgyver2> mwest, out of curiosity, what languages did your CS program use?
<DanielC> what is IS?
<mwest> so the general feeling is that Java, C/C++, Python, etc. are "real programming languages", while things like JavaScript, BASIC, et al are not
<mwest> DanielC: Information Systems
<DanielC> ok
<mwest> macgyver2: Java, C++ and recently Python :-)
<DanielC> Incidentally, I'm a mathematecian, not an IS.
<mwest> macgyver2: and a bit of Lisp and Haskell for FP
<macgyver2> mwest, nice
<DanielC> PHP is definitely a programming language. I don't know VB, and I don't want to learn it. I'm happy with C, PHP, Perl, Ruby and Python.
<DanielC> Haskell rocks.
<mwest> DanielC: used Ruby-on-Rails at all?  I'm loving it
* ogra_ would call writing source code that executes commands programming... no matter what language
<DanielC> I haven't actually.
<ogra_> even if there are ugly languages and less ugly ones :)
<mwest> DanielC: if you ever have to do any web-based interfaces to a SQL db, give it a try
<jsgotangco> im a rails user myself
<DanielC> I think it's reasonable to require programming languages to have conditions and looping. But any language that has that should be considered programming.
<jsgotangco> but ogra beg to differ on ruby
<DanielC> mwest: I like PHP for SQL db.
<jsgotangco> :)
<DanielC> mwest: I'm currently maintaining a site with PHP+Smarty+MySQL.
<mwest> DanielC: PHP is like candy - easy sweetness, but too much of it is bad for you :-)
<DanielC> bah! I've heard the same about Perl.
<jsgotangco> smarty?
<DanielC> smarty is a PHP product.
<mwest> jsgotangco: web templating in PHP, quite nice to work with
<DanielC> I like it :)
<mwest> DanielC: I am less of a fan of perl than I am of PHP
<ogra_> php is ok, the problem with it is that its heavily broken security wise, its holes will bite you sooner or later
<mwest> ogra_: suphp :-)
<mwest> php on Ubuntu should come with suphp installed by default, ala the OpenBSD php packages
<ogra_> <-- doesnt like php, but appreciates people who do it to get the job done
<ogra_> as i do for every lang...
* jsgotangco kills python
* DanielC waves his "PHP rulez" flag
<ogra_> even gambas might be ok to get done what you need
* jsgotangco raises the Ruby Asian Pride banner
<Arianna> :-)
<Arianna> Hi
<Platyna> (-;
<Platyna> Heja.
<jsgotangco> hi
<DanielC> hi
<Arianna> Is there any "developer" or just edubuntu users?
<ogra_> Arianna, how can i help ?
<Arianna> ogra, well, it is maybe a bit farfetched, but I ll try :-)
<Arianna> ogra, I got an hint over this educational version of Ubuntu. I have been working on a project (open source) that has educational purposes and it is in english.
<Arianna> it is a 3D MORPG
<jsgotangco> a game?
<Arianna> Maybe it is completely out of the path, but maybe not... 
<Arianna> yes, it is.
<jsgotangco> go on
<Arianna> www.reflex.lth.se/culture/annelov This is the link.
* DanielC clicks
* jsgotangco plays MMOs so he's looking
<DanielC> what's MMO ?
<ogra_> Arianna, we are using the same package base as ubuntu, so if you get it included in ubuntu universe, you can use it as well in edubuntu
<jsgotangco> DanielC: Massively Multiplayer Online
<DanielC> ah, thanks
<Arianna> ogra, so I should contact ubuntu people, correct?
<jsgotangco> Arianna: MOTU people
<Arianna> Anyway, if anybody else is interested in know more I can just explain.
<ogra_> Arianna, yes, +ubuntu-motu is the place for universe packages
<ogra_> #ubuntu-motu indeed
<Arianna> ok :-)
<jsgotangco> wow it looks nice
<Arianna> well, the graphics is what it is since I learnt during the project to model ;P
<jsgotangco> i see a screenshot of a man being burned as a sacrifice?
<Arianna> the code is quite stable, but there are bugs - of course - also due to my deadlines and the engine itself (Planeshift engine)
<ogra_> Arianna, btw, siretart leads the MOTUGames team.... he's probably the right one to nag ;)
<Arianna> yes, more than a sacrifice is the funeral rite during Bronze Age. The setting of the game is Bronze Age.
<Arianna> Ok, ogra, I ll try to nag him, then. Thanks for the tip :-D
<Arianna> oh, here he is.
<Platyna> See you. ;)
<mpt> ok, http://edubuntu.org/ updated
<mpt> not perfect, but it's a start
<jsgotangco> yay
* jsgotangco steals mpt's text for the manual
<ogra_> mpt, our first goal isa standalone ltsp classroom server, no workstations.... 
<ogra_> the workstation option will be available additionally like ubuntu currently has the server bootoption for the install CD
<ogra_> we'll only support thin clients by default
<jsgotangco> ogra_: will edubuntu get discussed in montreal or in a different venue like that in london?
<ogra_> jsgotangco, i hope so, since we have all the ltsp developers around
<ogra_> (k12ltsp)
<jsgotangco> right
<mpt> ogra_: fixed
<ogra_> thanks :)
<ogra_> yay, we have java !!
<jsgotangco> eh?
* jsgotangco looks at ogra confused 
<ogra_> jsgotangco, we have blackdown java in multiverse 
<jsgotangco> oh thats great news indeed
<jsgotangco>  I second the notion and would like to adopt the same strategy for Pakistan,
<jsgotangco> we have already trained and certified over 4879 people as "Ubuntu-Linux
<jsgotangco> Certified Users".
<jsgotangco> loco-contacts list
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> 4879 people
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: where did they send that do? it's really amazing!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i have no idea but FOSS is incredibly big in India/Pakistan
<ogra> highvoltage, so did someone explain the build system to you while i fought with my devlish DSL ?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, mdz explained, which left me with more questions, but i think i should consult more with motu team, and find more docs.
<ogra> so was i right with germinate ? i can explain you a bit
<highvoltage> ok, that would be nice.
<jsgotangco> good night
<ball> Does a program's inclusion in "application selection" mean that it will be installed by default, or just that it's there if we want it?
<ogra> ball, that was the list we discussed back at the summit
<ball> ogra: right, but is that what ships with it, or what is actually /installed/?
<ogra> the final list of stuff included on the CD (beyond the standard ubuntu desktop) is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<ogra> thats also what gets installed by default
<ball> Oh, ok.
<ball> thanks.
<ogra> additionally you have the whole set of ubuntu packages available online...
<ogra> since edubuntu gets developed in ubuntu
<ball> ogra: I should probably try it.  I'm wary of kitchen-sink-itis though.
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> ;)
<ball> ...looks a bit complex, but I imagine that's because it's young.
<ogra> its 5 steps... 
<ogra> thats to complex ? 
* ball grins imbecilically
<DanielC> the step of configuring dphcp.conf scares me.
<DanielC> The others are straight forward.
<ball> Is there a system requirments page somewhere?
<ogra> DanielC, just copy it as is ;) and make sure your server has 192.168.0.1 
<ball> requirements*
<DanielC> ogra: how do I make sure my server "has 192.168.0.1"?  What does that mean? (yes, I know what an IP is but...)
<ogra> ball, not yet, but i test here with a pIII 900 with 256MB, thats enough for a single thin client... i guess even for two
<ogra> DanielC, just make sure your interface has the static ip 192.168.0.1
<DanielC> ah
<ball> ogra: will it work on VIA C3 chips?
<ogra> the the default shipped yonfig works
<ogra> ball, why shouldnt it ?
<DanielC> ogra: What do I need t do at the server end to do that?
<ball> ogra: just checking ;-)
<ball> Ah, just found WorkstationDefinitions.
<ogra> DanielC edit /etc/network/interfaces 
* DanielC writes that down.
<ogra> ball, thats only for the clients and doesnt really apply to ltsp (only the thin client part)
* ball is confused
<ogra> DanielC, man interfaces expalins the syntax with examples
<DanielC> ogra, thanks
* DanielC writes that too :)
<ball> It might help if I knew a bit more about Linux
<ogra> ball, edubuntu is a ltsp server/client distro... it installs a ltsp server where you attach diskless clients 
<ball> ...is edubuntu meant for use with diskless workstations, graphical terminals or fat workstations?
<ogra> (at least the default install)
<ball> Ah, you answered my question before I asked it ;-)
<ball> Are the diskless clients workstations (with apps running locally) or terminals (with apps running on the server)?
<ogra> the final version will also have a standalone workstation install
<ogra> all apps run on the server
<DanielC> Should I configure DHCP to listen on both NICs or just the one that has thin clients?
<ogra> only the one you configured for 192.168.0.1
<DanielC> ok
* DanielC writes that too...
<ball> I should probably learn about ltsp.
<ogra> ball, installing edubuntu is probably a good start to do that :)
<DanielC> ball: thin clients means that they are disk-less clients and the apps run on the server.
<DanielC> ball: Based on my experience, it's easier to start with either Edubuntu or SkoleLinux than with the k12ltsp page.
<DanielC> ball: I'm interested in Edubuntu because (1) I love Ubuntu and (2) SkoleLinux has much older software.
<ball> I only heard about ubuntu yesterday... a classmate mentioned it.
<DanielC> :-)
<ogra> DanielC, i guess there will be a new skole release soon 
<ball> I know very little about Linux, but I'm open to the idea.
<DanielC> ogra: Yeah, I think so.
<ogra> DanielC, pere knows such things :)
<DanielC> ball: You should definitely try Linux. I like it a lot. Ubuntu is a good distribution.
<ball> I like the idea of diskless workstations or graphical terminals, I've used those in the bast.
<DanielC> ball: I think that using Ubuntu will take you a long way in getting then hang of Linux, and Edubuntu. And Edubuntu will go a long way in teaching you LTSP.
<ball> I'm surprised at how much edubuntu will install by default... imo it would be nice if I got to choose what was installed.
<highvoltage> DanielC: Skolelinux has moved over to sarge, it's not that old anymore
<ball> How much disk space do I need for the server?
<highvoltage> but yes, edubuntu is probably a better bet  (once it's released)
<DanielC> highvoltage: I checked the website today, and the Sarge release was still labeled as "unstable".
<highvoltage> ball: about 2GB for installation, and then space for user files, and space for swap-over-nfs swapfiles.
<DanielC> highvoltage: I installed the latest release today.
<ball> eww... swap-over-nfs sounds bad.
<highvoltage> DanielC: ok. they're taking a bit longer than i expected.
<DanielC> ball: Well, it's a server that is meant to cover everything a school should need.
<DanielC> ball: Ubuntu itself has a relatively small footprint.
<DanielC> one of the things I like about it...
<ogra> highvoltage, i think it depends what you want... if you want 50 servers that talk together and 500 thin clients served by them, edubuntu simply cant provide that yet
<DanielC> ball: Another thing about Edubuntu is that, thanks to its Debian core, adding and removing packages is dead easy.
<ball> Wierd to install stuff only to remove it straight away though... would it not be more efficient to ask before installing?
* DanielC is glad he doesn't have to configure 50 servers and 500 thin clients ...
<DanielC> ball: Yes, I didn't mean to suggest that it was the same. I just meant that if you want to remove something, it's not the end of the world.
<DanielC> ball: On the other hand, Ubuntu's philosophy is heavily on the side of simplicity and usability.
<ball> I don't know what the edubuntu filer thing is called, but can I restrict it to users' home directories?
<ball> (and subdirectories thereof?)
<DanielC> Other distributions make you choose from thousands of packages on install. Some people like that.
<DanielC> ball: You can change permissions I guess...
<DanielC> Restrictions work differently under Linux and Unix.
<DanielC> What exactly do you want to restrict?
<DanielC> What do you want the users to not do?
<ball> DanielC: I only want them to see their own folder, none of the system folders... no /mnt, /etc and so on.
<DanielC> why not?
<highvoltage> ball: it's safe for users to see /etc, etc. they can't do anything if they see it. unless you've made some weird config mistake,
<ball> DanielC: if they don't see it, they can't break it or be confused by it.  
<highvoltage> like putting in a password to another machine in a config file.
<DanielC> ball: It's not in the Unix philosophy to do that really...
<DanielC> ball: They can't break it if they do see it.
<highvoltage> ball: gnome does a good job of keeping users in their home directories ;)
<ogra> ball, they cant break it
<ball> I don't want them to see it.
<DanielC> ball: Only the root super-user can touch /etc
<highvoltage> you must really want to see more if you want to.
<DanielC> Besides, they won't see if unless they actively go looking for it.
<DanielC> which would require prior knowledge of it's existence.
<ball> Is there a "parent folder" or "up one level" button on the filer?
<highvoltage> DanielC: that's what i actually meant :) (the activley looking for part)
<DanielC> ball: yes
<ball> DanielC: I'd like that greyed out if they're in their home directory.
<DanielC> ball: try this experiment. Boot an Ubuntu live CD and try to break something in /etc.
<highvoltage> ball: they need to have access to /etc to log in.
<highvoltage> otherwise they can't read /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow
<ball> highvoltage: yes, but that doesn't mean they have to see it in their filer.
<DanielC> ball: The way Unix is designed, there is no reason to not let them see /etc to have a very secure system.
<ball> DanielC: I don't want them to see it.
<DanielC> why not?
<highvoltage> loop detected
<DanielC> You are thinking in a very Windows way.
<ogra> ball, you are right, but currently there is no filemanager in the world supporting that, not even on windows
* ball doesn't use Windows
<ball> (well, not on my own machines ;-)
<DanielC> ball: Mac?
<ball> ogra: perhaps I should write one ;-0
<ball> ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> :)
<DanielC> ball: In Mac you can see /etc.
<ball> DanielC: I don't use Macs very much
<DanielC> what do you use then?
<highvoltage> zx-spectrum
<DanielC> If it's not Unix or Linux or Winblows or Mac...
<highvoltage> it's a very secure platform, not one remote exploit since 1982
<ball> On my own machines I use NetBSD, but I can't put that in front of civilians.
<ball> highvoltage: I have fuse installed if that counts ;-)
<DanielC> ball: Surely you would know that you can't hide /etc and that there's no good reason to.
<ball> DanielC: I want to.
<DanielC> ball:  chmod go-x /etc
<highvoltage> DanielC: let ball learn the hard way, when the students want to open tuxpaint and it wont because it can't access /etc/tuxpaint/tuxpaint.conf
<DanielC> :-)
<ball> highvoltage: I'm not talking about turning off their access, just hiding it in the file browser.
<ball> (show 'em their own folder, subfolders thereof and nothing else)
<highvoltage> well, I suggets you try the file manager in gnome, it's really not that easy to navigate to /etc.
<ball> I can put links to shared folders in their home folder.
<DanielC> ball: how would that work? If they can access it, then so can the file browser.
<highvoltage> you have to really *want* to get to /etc to see it.
<DanielC> and they'll be bored as heck when they get to it.
* ball sighs
<DanielC> ball: I don't know what to suggest.
<ball> Okay, if I accept that the user can browse the filesystem at will (file permissions permitting ;-) ...I suppose I need to think about hardware.
<highvoltage> that might be a better use of time :)
<ball> Do I need boot ROMs for the workstations?
<highvoltage> boot roms are nice, but optional.
<ball> s/workstations/terminals
<highvoltage> you can also boot from floppies, or from hard disk.
<highvoltage> you can get the images from http://rom-o-matic.net
<DanielC> But floppies are flaky, and students like pulling them out and hiding them.
<ogra> PXE enabled NICs rock :)
<highvoltage> ogra: etherboot rocks more!
<ogra> you dont have to think about anything...
<highvoltage> ogra: he doesn't?
<DanielC> Is there any practical difference between etherboot and PXE?
<DanielC> Will both work on Edubuntu for instance?
<ogra> highvoltage, not with PXE NIC ;)
<highvoltage> DanielC: etherboot is free software, which does have quit a few practical implications, imo :)
<DanielC> ok
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean?
<DanielC> besides freedom, is there any difference?
<highvoltage> DanielC: etherboot is backwards compatible with PXE, so it will work
<ball> Do I need a special boot rom for edubuntu?
<highvoltage> DanielC: pxe just comes on network cards, etherboot you can put on almost any media
<DanielC> ok
<highvoltage> and on rom-o-matic.net, you can choose lots of options for etherboot.
<highvoltage> pxe gives you very few options.
<highvoltage> (not that you need the options so much, but it is nice, for when you do)
<ogra> highvoltage, with a PXE enabled NIC you dont have to think about anything... just plug it in and boot
<ogra> thats what i meant
<DanielC> Where do you suggest I get etherboot cards? I don't know how to program a ROM.
<ball> I suppose I should use gigabit ethernet if I'm swapping over it :-/
<highvoltage> ogra: with a etherboot boot rom inserted, it's the same ;)
<ball> hang on though, why would a graphical terminal need to swap anyway?!
<Petaris> DanielC: Why do you want etherboot cards?
<ogra> yes, but you have to insert a bootrom ;)
<highvoltage> ball: on your server, it's a good idea to use gigabit ethernet
<highvoltage> ogra: boo-hoo!
<DanielC> Petaris: don't I need them for the thin clients?
<highvoltage> DanielC: nope
<Petaris> DanielC: use pxe based cards
<DanielC> uhmm... what can I use instead? (besides floppies)
<Petaris> they "just work" tm
<DanielC> Ok. Where can I get pxe based cards?
<highvoltage> if you have a gigabit switch (on all ports) and a decent gigabit switch, and you can afford it, you will probably get slightly better performance. but 100mbps is fine for thin clients.
<Petaris> any where
<ogra> (but are proprietary)
<DanielC> good
<DanielC> And they'll "just work"?
<ball> Oh, does edubuntu have built-in WoL support, to wake up the terminals from the server keyboard?
<Petaris> dlink makes good cards
<Petaris> DanielC: If they are pxe
<ogra> ball, thats rather a HW issue and we didnt plan such a feature ....
<DanielC> Petaris: ok
<Petaris> DanielC: only thing you might run into is adding it to your boot list in the bios
<ball> ogra: perhaps for the next version...
<ogra> probably
<ball> I should be writing this stuff down.
<DanielC> Petaris: Thanks. I wouldn't have thought of that...
<Petaris> DanielC: I only thought of it because I ran into that problem on a client the other day  ;)
<ball> If a terminal is switched off and then switched back on again, does the user get reconnected to their session?
<DanielC> :-)
<Petaris> ball: no
<ogra> ball, it needs to boot again...
<ball> ogra: right, but after the terminal's booted...
<ball> ?
<ogra> how should that work if you shout down the power on the NIC its down...
<ogra> you can save your session in gnome, sure
<ogra> and go on working where you stopped... but thats no special edubuntu feature
<ball> ogra: it works with VNC
* ogra lol's
<Petaris> this isn't vnc
<highvoltage> this is xdmcp :)
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> more letters, and more efficient.
<ogra> this is ssh
* ball has never heard of xdmcp
<highvoltage> ogra: nope?
<Petaris> ssh tunnel
<ogra> its a simple ssh tunnel
<highvoltage> ah, yes. edubuntu works differenlty.
* highvoltage needs to get his breezy box running again
<ball> Would 600 MHz be adequate for the terminals?  I'm thinking of EPIA ME6000 fanless mITX boards.
<ogra> i think so
<ball> They have to be i386 right?
<highvoltage> 600mhz is fine.
<Petaris> ball: more then enough
<ogra> (said the guy who does his tests with a amd64 3200 512MB machine)
<highvoltage> hehe
<ogra> ball, they have to be the same arch as the server
<Petaris> one of my clients is a fanless via 533MHz with 128MB RAM, works great
<ogra> ball, you could even do sparc ;)
<Petaris> could probably even get away with 64MB
<highvoltage> ogra: they do!?
<highvoltage> this isn't the same for mainstream ltsp.
<highvoltage> ah yes, mdz's ltsp uses the same packages on cd, so it must be same arch.
<highvoltage> hmmm..
<highvoltage> seriously, edubuntu ltsp != ltsp more than debian != ubuntu.
<highvoltage> even though the ltsp guys are fine with it being called ltsp
<ball> I'm going to have to invest some money on the server...
<ball> ...perhaps I should build an experimental rig to start with though.
<Petaris> ball: how many clients?
<ball> Petaris: probably three or four to start with.
<Petaris> oh
<Petaris> you can run that with a fairly small box
<Petaris> I'm putting in 25 clients
<ball> define "fairly small" ;-)
<Petaris> p3 600 or better should do
<Petaris> with 512 of ram
<ball> ok
<Petaris> but that may be different depending on which apps you want to use concurrently
<highvoltage> ogra: will there be a way to install an off-line copy of wikipedia with edubuntu?
<highvoltage> i mean, a quick and easy way that teachers could follow?
<ogra> highvoltage, see #u-d
<highvoltage> k
<highvoltage> ah
<ball> Hmm... I doubt these mainboards come with a boot ROM socket :-/
<Petaris> ball: Which country are you in?
<ball> ...shame to waste the only PCI slot on a NIC
<ball> Petaris: USA
<Petaris> ball: http://www.solarpc.com/
<Petaris> That is where I get my clients
<Petaris> ball: is this for a school?
<ball> That rings a bell, I may have looked at those in the past.
<ball> No, but it is for use in an educational environment.
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> I'm a k-12 in Wisconsin
<Petaris> This is going to be a new elementary lab
<ball> Nice.
<ball> My wife is a teacher in a middle school.  This is for somewhere else though.  I'm in Illinois btw.
<Petaris> ahh
<ball> I'm still learning my way around the American education framework
<ball> people tell me what grade their in and I ask "how old is that"? :-)
<Petaris> ball: best just to get a bulldozer and plow through all the bs
* ball chuckles
<ball> s/their/they're
<ball> Petaris: are yours running from 12V DC?
<Petaris> there is a powerblock that converts from ac to the dc
<Petaris> but they are 12vdc
<ball> A wall-wart type thing?
<Petaris> I'm not sure you could find them there
<Petaris> I got them from SolarPC with the units
<Petaris> but it is a standard plug
<Petaris> for the 12vdc
<Petaris> ball: we got a server, 25 clients, keyboards, monitors, and mice for just under $8,000.00
<Petaris> all from SolarPC
<Petaris> the monitors are remans, but the rest is new
<ball> coaxial DC plug?
<Petaris> its a round plug with a hole in the center
<ball> I should request a catalogue
<ball> Yes, that's the ones.
<Petaris> ball: give me a few secounds and I'll shoot up some pics of the powerbrick and clients
<ball> Did the clients need boot ROMs?
<Petaris> nope
<Petaris> they just work
<ball> Do they have 100baseTX ports?
<ball> ...or 1000baseT?
<Petaris> hrm, I think they are 10/100
<Petaris> but I have dual 1000 nics on the server
<ball> Are your clients diskless graphical terminals?
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> just a min, will have pics up
<ball> Are they quiet?
<ball> ok
<Petaris> yeah
<highvoltage> Petaris: we set up our labs for about $3400, with 20 clients
<Petaris> highvoltage: I went with slightly better hardware then needed
<Petaris> I'll explain later
<highvoltage> ah, always good to do that, especially on server and switch.
<highvoltage> we've used some cheap switches before that didn't work out that well.
<ball> Will edubuntu eventually support actual VNC graphical terminals?
<ogra> absolutely, the ubuntu desktop we build on actually has full vnc support
<ball> So I could use graphical terminals instead of messing with diskless workstations or PC parts?
<Petaris> ball: all of mine are graphical
<highvoltage> ogra: have you seen xdmcp chooser? will edubuntu have something similar?
<Petaris> these boxes are really plug and play
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont think that would make much sense with the ssh tunneled ltsp
<ball> thinking of something like this... - Andrew Ball
<ball> oops :-)
<ball> paste doesn't work quite right here ;-)
<ball> http://www.hoovercs.com/images/yvnc.gif
<ogra> highvoltage, you want to crossconnect between the clients with it ? 
<highvoltage> what some schools have done is, 
<highvoltage> they've put in a server which is the official server,
<highvoltage> and another one which is the "computer club" server, one that they can play with and mess about.
<highvoltage> and then on the thin clients, the chooser starts, and the kids can select their server.
<ogra> thats not what edubuntu can offer in this stage
<ogra> probably with sdm which i still havent seen yet
<highvoltage> ok. when my breezy box is ok again i'll play with it.
<ogra> yes, try it
<ogra> indeed you can install in the chroot what you want, even xdmcp, but edubuntu servers simply dont export X so that xdmcp could connect to it
<Petaris> ball: 
<Petaris> ball: http://katerina.frederic.k12.wi.us/code/naig/index.php
<Petaris> there are the images
<Petaris> sorry, they are not the best
<Petaris> and the gallery software is experimental, so it could have a few issues
<Petaris> The first client shown is the 533MHz
<Petaris> the second is the 1GHz
<Petaris> the second also has a CF card reader
<ball> Do you boot of the CF on the second?
<ball> ...or is that just in case?  :-)
<Petaris> no, but I could
<Petaris> That is for booting a micro win98 enviornment I might need
<Petaris> other wise I wouldn't have ordered them
<Petaris> *them = CF card readers
<ball> Petaris: thanks, the pictures give me a good idea of their size.
<Petaris> yeah, think laptop
<Petaris> The 1GHz is for if this project bombs
<Petaris> I can buy hard drives and stick them in there, bingo computers
<ball> heh
<Petaris> :)
<ball> I've just noticed the time
<ball> I have to god 
<Petaris> Always have a backup plan
<ball> go*
<Petaris> bye
<ball> Thanks for your help, and your patience chaps (and chapesses ;-)
<ogra> bye
<Petaris> ogra, highvoltage, you guys might want to check out those pics as well
<Petaris> they make a good client
<ogra> they look neat...
<ogra> especially the one with the chrome knob and cf reader
<ogra> but i've seen way smaller clients.... they are quite big...
<Petaris> ogra: thats so they can fit a hdd
<Petaris> or a full size pci
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> yup, but if i dont need a HD, a 9x15x2 case is a bit cooler ;)
<Petaris> yep
<ogra> as big as a 2cm thick postcard
<Petaris> oh, thats cm
<Petaris> ok, that makes more sence
<ogra> germany here ;)
<Petaris> I was thinking inches
<Petaris> and thinking, thats not that small
<Petaris> hehe
<ogra> you can use little brackets and attach them under the table with screws...
<Petaris> these you can as well
<ogra> true
<Petaris> in fact, thats how we are mounting them
<ogra> heh
<DanielC> Help, I'm confused. When I ran 'apt-get install edubuntu-server' I told the DHCP server to run on eth1. Now, I just opened /etc/network/interfaces and it says  "iface eth1 inet dhcp". That can't be right...
<DanielC> "iface eth1 inet dhcp"  means that it *obtains* the address from DHCP, right?
<DanielC> That should be changed to "iface eth1 inet static address 192.168.0.1"  right?
<Petaris> hrm, gftp keeps dying on me
!lilo:*! Updating channel guidelines.... please take a look at http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines_draft_1124910402.shtml#sensitivematerial (comments appreciated)
<Petaris> hrm, I still get that kernel panic on the first time boot
<Petaris> :/
<ogra> kernel panic ? 
<Petaris> yeah
<ogra> ah, you mean the nfst timeout
<Petaris> it only happens the first time I try to boot the client
<ogra> nfs even
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> it comes up as a kernel panic
<ogra> thats solved in the recent versions
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> when did you upgrade the last time ?
<Petaris> not since install
<ogra> did you tweak much in the chroot ?
<ogra> (in /opt/ltsp... ? )
<Petaris> nope
<Petaris> not at all 
<Petaris> I added an /opt/scripts
<ogra> then just run sudo ltsp-build-client again
<Petaris> but that is on its own
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> will do
<ogra> it will get you the latest client environment
<ogra> you should als update the server.... there was a new kernel release inbetween
<Petaris> update the server how?
<Petaris> apt-get update, apt-get updgrade?
<Petaris> or do you mean ltsp-server
<Petaris> er, edubuntu-server
<ogra> nope, a system upgrade 
<Petaris> as in the package
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> so the first one you mentioned
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> will do
<ogra> good
<ogra> a lot bugs are gone....
<Petaris> I wish this script ran faster
<ogra> the ltsp update ?
<Petaris> yeah
<ogra> it scans te integrity of all packages first... 
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> Then maybe it should be more verbose, so it looks like it is doing something
<ogra> the final version will install from cd thats a lot faster then
<highvoltage> ogra: elmo says there's no plone packages for hoary, which the edubuntu server is currently running.
<highvoltage> what's the best way about installing plone, should i check on the plone site?
<highvoltage> ok. going to bed now. goodnight!
<Petaris> night highvoltage
#edubuntu 2005-08-30
!lilo:*! Update to channel guidelines: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml#sensitivematerial
!lilo:*! Adding a couple more patches to the testnet, restarting
<Burgundavia> ogra, I see pitti has rejected mediawiki, hmm...
<jsgotangco> main inclusion reports?
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> the old moin/mediawiki stuff
<jsgotangco> where is the url
<jsgotangco> i wanna see
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
<Burgundavia> hmm, seems he accepted it
<Burgundavia> oh, he got overruled
<Burgundavia> by sabdfl probably
<jsgotangco> wow gcompris came in
<Burgundavia> pitti has been ripping his hair out over the edubuntu stuff
<jsgotangco> nvu got rejected
<Burgundavia> contained some mozilla code
<jsgotangco> ohh right
<jsgotangco> and mozilla got dropped
<Burgundavia> didn't want to maintain 2 copies of the same code
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> it acutally contained mozilla code, as opposed to linking to tit
<jsgotangco> i thought it was dropped to universe
<jsgotangco> (mozilla)
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> that was the plan, but ff lacks some stuff for linking against, apparently
<Burgundavia> FF 1.5 is going to be fun
<jsgotangco> lol at pitti's comment on mediawiki
<jsgotangco> he got the smackdown
<Burgundavia> I feel sorry for him, but mediawiki is trully better for end users
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> unfortunately, mediawiki does poorly on backporting fixes to old version
<jsgotangco> just says everyone to upgrade
<Burgundavia> mediawiki development is a mess
<jsgotangco> its an awesome app for a rotten development language though
<Burgundavia> the mediawiki developers really don't mind if someone writes them a better app in another langauge I am told
<jsgotangco> Moin is good, it just needs a facelift really
<Burgundavia> and a better markup language
<Burgundavia> it is powerful but sucks for basic stuff, like linking
<jsgotangco> did you finish the inclusion reports for edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> ogra did in the end
<Burgundavia> I did about a 3rd of them
<jsgotangco> i wanted to help just didnt know where to start back then
<Burgundavia> they were at the high-end of my skill level
<Burgundavia> I left the server ones to ogra
<highvoltage> ja
<highvoltage> sorry, wrong window.
<highvoltage> morning JaneW 
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<JaneW> highvoltage: did you reorg the wiki page?
<JaneW> highvoltage:  if so, thanks :)
<jsgotangco> mpt did
<JaneW> oic thanks
<JaneW> I wasn;t subscribed after the page moved...
<JaneW> but not I looked at recent changes (d'oh)
<JaneW> i think it was Rafi...
<highvoltage> JaneW: i do have some good news though.
<highvoltage> JaneW: elmo got my login sorted out last night, so we'll probably have some kind of web page by the end of the weekend.
<highvoltage> JaneW: wiki will move to wiki.edubuntu.org, right?
<JaneW> woohoo - yes I guess so, yay
<JaneW> highvoltage: why weren't you at the wine tasting last night? (which actually turned out to be champagne tasting)
<JaneW> *hick*
<highvoltage> JaneW: had some other pressing issues.
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> well we had an impromptu 'Office Idols' session
<JaneW> and Vicki was Randall ;)
<highvoltage> thank God i wasn't there then.
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> highvoltage: do you have admin rights on the wiki pages or do I need to ask ... elmo
<highvoltage> JaneW: elmo
<JaneW> ok thanks
<JaneW> ok I have mailed elmo
<JaneW> I am trying to insert some educational quotes and need to edit the FortuneCookie page.
<jsgotangco> "don't judge a book by its cover"
<jsgotangco> hehehe
* jsgotangco hides
<jsgotangco> "school sucks"
<JaneW> hehe
<jsgotangco> "everything i needed to learn, i learned in kindergarten"
<JaneW> shall I add those...?
<JaneW> ;)
<JaneW> my fav so far is... When I think about all the crap I learned in high school . . . it's a wonder I can think at all. - Paul Simon 
<jsgotangco> rock rock rock rock rock' n roll high school
<jsgotangco> (the ramones)
<JaneW> We don't need not education!
<JaneW> s/not/no
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> "hey teacher, leave those kids alone!"
<JaneW> I have put up what I have at http://www.edubuntu.org/FortuneCookies2 (feel free to add to this list) - once I have the access rights I will move it to http://www.edubuntu.org/FortuneCookies, and they will display on the front page...
<JaneW> added another from our very own Mark Shuttleworth ;)
<jsgotangco> can i put "will code for food?"
<jsgotangco> hehe
* jsgotangco hides
<JaneW> course
<jsgotangco> "if i don't see edubuntu in october, ogra will feel the wrath of JaneW" - JaneW
<JaneW> or "if i don't see edubuntu in october, ogra and JaneW will feel the wrath of mdz" - mdz
<jsgotangco> "if i don't see edubuntu in october, you guys are screwed.." - sabdfl
<JaneW> lmao
<JaneW> that's the one
<jsgotangco> alright its time to see if our new build works (currently installing)
* jsgotangco checks if bill gates has a quote on education
<jsgotangco> It's true that I dropped out of college to start Microsoft, but I was at Harvard for three years before dropping out?and I'd love to have the time to go back. As I've said before, nobody should drop out of college unless they believe they face the opportunity of a lifetime. And even then they should reconsider.
<JaneW> pah
<JaneW> bet he was paid to say that...
<jsgotangco> http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/4/b/f4b62cb9-19f8-4bc9-b6f6-5bcb6159a2b7/myadvice.doc
<JaneW> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=vn20050825084103945C453242
<ogra> JaneW, today my DSL dropped completely... :(
<ogra> i cant stay online all the time, but will be here every hour or so... (isdn is very expensive without contract here)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, you don't have to be so upset about it
* jsgotangco hides
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<jsgotangco> isdn? wow
<jsgotangco> last time i heard about it is like 4 years ago
<JaneW> jsgotangco: upset?
<jsgotangco> Men are more intelligent, professor says
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we still have ISDN here...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: who said I was upset...
<ogra> isdn is great, i love it... you just cant get sane contracts for it in germany
<jsgotangco> its too expensive even in my place that it died a natural death in the mainstream internet use
<ogra> i'd rather bundle 10 isdn lines than buy a DSL line if i had the choice
<jsgotangco> but yes isdn is actually much cleaner
<JaneW> argh I can't access my mailbox - why!?
<ogra> but they bill minute prices for it... no flatrates or any other sane contracts
<jsgotangco> because men made it?
* jsgotangco hides
<JaneW> probably...
<JaneW> :P
<highvoltage> JaneW: my mail is fine.
<JaneW> highvoltage: It was using mail fine earlier, then it started failing
* JaneW tries to ping it
<jsgotangco> ogra, it seems the daily edubuntu for today is again broken in stage 2
<jsgotangco> but i can do a workaround by killing the usual aptitude
<JaneW> ping workis...
<JaneW> works
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats ver strange, where does it hang exactly, did you look at the console this time ?
<highvoltage> what's the best way for a user to report a bug they only experience in ubuntu's openoffice package? someone just asked me, and i'm not quite sure.
<jsgotangco> yes it stops when it wants to install/download from untrusted sources
<jsgotangco> around 10%
<jsgotangco> ogra, what build is your (breezy) edubuntu in your ubuntu shell account?
<ogra> aug 18th 
<jsgotangco> hmm it seems it downloaded from the network as i have gdm
<ogra> i test installed it several times, the dailys still suffer ubuntu breakage... (and todays suffers my broken DSL, since i couldnt upload my fixes before the build yesterday)
<jsgotangco> ogra, aug. 18 build is pretty solid
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats why its so sad that it dissapeared from the archive... it was a PITA to get it up again :) but at least we have something to test...
<jsgotangco> ok im testing this on a bigger server downloading the meta packages now
<jsgotangco> im in a friends lab in school
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> yay
<ogra> i had some ideas for ldm prettyfication... i'll try them today
<jsgotangco> (its a local college has 20 pcs)
<jsgotangco> i did a talk this morning, pimped to the faculty to let me play around a bit till 7pm
<jsgotangco> DanielC, hi
<DanielC> hi
<DanielC> DHCP hates me :-(
<DanielC> I can't start the DHCP server. It says that my dhcpd.conf is wrong I think.
<DanielC> But I don't know anything about dhcpd.conf. I sent a detailed message to the list.
<jsgotangco> give me a minute im in a lab i'll see what's wrong
<DanielC> ok, thank you.
* jsgotangco is installing at the moment
<ogra> highvoltage, i think i had a idea tonight for a kind of xdmcp to connect to different servers through ldm... lets see if it works as i thought ... (i have no second server to test though)
<ogra> highvoltage, but it will only work with edubuntu ltsp...
<jsgotangco> hmmm it took postfix?
<jsgotangco> hmm it takes a while
<jsgotangco> wonder what is wrong...
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> 200 ppl joined our mailing list - but with a few unsubsribes as well, we now have 190 members...
<DanielC> And none of them seem to know how to configure dhcpd.conf  :-(
* DanielC has been banging his head against the wall for a while.
<DanielC> ifconfig also says that eth1 doesn't have an address or netmask (it should be 192.168.0.1 - static, since that's where the DHCP server is supposed to listen).
<DanielC> Maybe the problem is in /etc/network/interfaces
<DanielC> but I don't know what else to try there.
<DanielC> Does anyone know how to use ifconfig to assign an address and netmask to eth1? I've read the man page, but I'm not any closer to a solution than before.
<JaneW> where's ogra?
<DanielC> no idea...
<JaneW> DanielC: am I correct that this is not an edubuntu specific question (or is it?)
<DanielC> I don't know :(
<DanielC> It might be.
<DanielC> It might be something about the way edubuntu is configured. I would guess that's what it is.
<JaneW> DanielC: I don;t know much about it, but when I was fidling here at home I had to set up a static connection with default gateway
<JaneW> DanielC: once it was succesfully conected I cahnged the setting to DHCP and it was fine after that...
<DanielC> I'm not sure I follow what you just said...
<JaneW> not sure why, but it was like it couldn't find the default gateway without being told the first time *shrug*
<DanielC> I can connect to the internet fine (this is on eth0). My problems are on the other hard (eth1). The one that connects to the thin clients.
<DanielC> the other /card/
<JaneW> ok
<DanielC> Ok. My thin clients can get an IP from the DHCP server, but they won't boot. On the client I see the message "Loading 192.168.0.1:/ltsp/pxelinux.0" and it just hangs there.
<DanielC>  /ltsp/pxelinux.0 doesn't exist.
<DanielC> But /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.0 does exist (on the server).
<DanielC> So I guess that's the right one. But I don't know where to configure the path for the kernel image to boot from.
<DanielC> Does anyone know?
<DanielC> I tried in dhcpd.conf but that wasn't it.
<DanielC> Does anyone know when ogra or jsgotangco is coming back? :-)
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I am getting a segmentation fault during client boot at /etc/rcS.d/S02mountvirtfs
<Petaris> rebooting doesn't seem to help
<Petaris> :/
<JaneW> :/
<Petaris> Has Ogra been around latly?
<mpt> ogra was here yesterday
<JaneW> he was in this am
<JaneW> he is having problems with his ISDN line
<JaneW> he is responding to e-mail ...
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> This client issue only happened after I upgraded the ltsp-build-client stuff yesterday
* Petaris 's windows servers are making him cry :(
<Petaris> Not only are they not letting me move files from one volume to another, they are also striping the permissions off  :(
<Petaris> of my users folders
<Petaris> I will be resetting permissions all day now
<Petaris> ;(
* Petaris wonders if win2k has the chmod, chown, and chgrp commands
<highvoltage> Petaris: yes, with sygwin ;)
<highvoltage> (i think)
<Petaris> cygwin, but I meant nativly
<Petaris> I should have just moved all of these user folders onto a linux server
<Petaris> It would have been much simpler over all
<highvoltage> Petaris: or you could have tarred it up first, tar keeps your permissions
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> but I think I would have still hit the permissions errors
<Petaris> even though they are set correctly
#edubuntu 2005-08-31
<PoetaVampiro> hi!
<PoetaVampiro> I'm quite interested in udubuntu
<PoetaVampiro> i will be teatching computers to first graders this season, kids with 5-10 years
<PoetaVampiro> where can i get a list describing the software that will come on the cd?
<PoetaVampiro> not the packets names, the desctiption, please
<PoetaVampiro> is there anyone here?
<PoetaVampiro> also i would like to talk to someone for advice on how to teach linux to kids
<PoetaVampiro> (litlle kids)
<PoetaVampiro> does anyone here teaches children?
<Rondom> hello
<PoetaVampiro> hi rondom
<Rondom> www.edubuntu.org is a good start
<PoetaVampiro> i've been there already
<Rondom> edubuntu isn't finished yet
<PoetaVampiro> I know
<Rondom> I'm not an expert, I'm not involved in development, I'm only interested in the development
<PoetaVampiro> Rondom, are u a teacher?
<Rondom> no an a-level-student
<PoetaVampiro> what is a-level? 
<PoetaVampiro> (sorry, I'm portuguese)
<Rondom> acutally I'm not an a-level-student, a-levels are the equivalent in the english school-system
<Rondom> a-levels grant you to go to university
<Rondom> in Germany we call it "Abitur"
<PoetaVampiro> I'm currently using ubuntu, and I thought that it would be nice to teach linux to the kids, because windows, they already will learn everywhere
<Rondom> 5-10 is your target-group?
<Rondom> gcompris is nice
<PoetaVampiro> yes
<Rondom> it's a set of educational programs for kids
<PoetaVampiro> where can I find a description?
<Rondom> Klettres helps learning the alphabet, but I'm not shure if there's a protugues version for the language output
<PoetaVampiro> i think i found it :-) on google
<PoetaVampiro> will it work on gnome?
<Rondom> http://www.ofset.org/gcompris/
<Rondom> yes
<Rondom> I have it installed and I tried it already :-)
<Rondom> klettres also works on gnome
<PoetaVampiro> will it show on synaptics?
<Rondom> yes
<PoetaVampiro> great
<Rondom> I've just checked
<Rondom> theere's also portugues language output, install gcompris-sound-pt and you'll hear portugues lettres
<ioio24> hello! Anyone had try to install Oracle Database over Ubuntu?
<PoetaVampiro> i'm already installing it
<Rondom> it has a ui suited for children
<Rondom> the only disadvantag is IMO that there isn't enough voice-output
<ioio24> PoetaVampiro: Do you install the "Oracle 9i Lite" version?
<Rondom> but there are pictures everywhere
<Rondom> so you don't have to read
<PoetaVampiro> nope ioio
<ioio24> Personal? Database? What version?
<PoetaVampiro> ok Rondom
<PoetaVampiro> thanks a lot for that
<ioio24> ups sorry.. im confuse with your conversation...
<ioio24> bye
<PoetaVampiro> Rondom nice games :-)
<PoetaVampiro> some of them are not well translated
<PoetaVampiro> but they are very nice
<PoetaVampiro> :-)
<Rondom> the package kdeedu also contains some other edu-games, but most of them are for older pupils
<Rondom> it contains als education-related apps
<Rondom> including KEduca, a app for creating tests
<PoetaVampiro> it would be nice to put some online games on the site itself
<PoetaVampiro> i  plan to let the kids use the internet a lot
<PoetaVampiro> since most of the applications i use, are integrated on firefox, why not let the kids explore the same philosophy?
<PoetaVampiro> if they can find sites where they can use software without having to pay, and most of the times, simpler to use then large company made programs, why not? :-)
<PoetaVampiro> we should have some kind of 'open flash' tool with better quality than the original one :-D in that way there would be thousands of games for kids
<PoetaVampiro> on the other hand, the objective is that they learn some stuff they probably wouldn't without guidance
<PoetaVampiro> and in that way, i was impressed by gcompris
<PoetaVampiro> because most of the activities is oriented to an objective
<PoetaVampiro> I have to try this with my 2 kids
!lilo:*! Whelp, time to upgrade the testnet to hyperion 1.0 release!
* IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 :are supported by this server 
* SAFELIST CASEMAPPING=ascii CHANNELLEN=30 TOPICLEN=450 KICKLEN=450 KEYLEN=23 USERLEN=10 HOSTLEN=63 SILENCE=50  are supported by this server
-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- This nickname is owned by someone else
-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
<ball> hello JaneW
<JaneW> hi ball :)
<JaneW> hello jsgotangco 
<ball> hello jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> something is wrong with X
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> or just firefox
<jsgotangco> my mouse pointer won't respond lol
<jsgotangco> i'll brb first
<jsgotangco> hehehe it wasnt working
<jsgotangco> dohh
<jsgotangco> hi all (btw)
<JaneW> oh no!
<JaneW> the dreaded X
<jsgotangco> JaneW, it works i probably messed up something
<jsgotangco> i was testing the daily build
<jsgotangco> hmm i still got hit by #14007
* highvoltage feels sleepy
<highvoltage> oh yes, morning too, btw ;)
<jsgotangco> morning highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you've got one of the most complicated nicks i've seen. i have to think each time i type it :)
<jsgotangco> oh
<jsgotangco> sorry about that
<jsgotangco> my surname is indeed complicated
<jsgotangco> i wanted to change it before but people people keep asking who the hell am i
<jsgotangco> if its easier for you just say "just got tangoed"
<ball> jsgotangco: do they still have that big orange geezer?
<jsgotangco> ball, ?
<ball> jsgotangco: It was an old Tango ad that used that catchphrase
<jsgotangco> oh yeah i remember that
<jsgotangco> heh
<ball> (Tango was a British soda)
<jsgotangco> yes yes
<jsgotangco> i think they  still do
<ball> hello jyap
<jyap> hi ball
<jyap> whats up ball?
<ball> Not much, just thinking about going to bed.
<ball> Hello jsg_ltsp
<jsg_ltsp> there it goes
<jsg_ltsp> hi JaneW 
<jsg_ltsp> :)
<jsgotangco> he its just me in the client
<jsg_ltsp> hmm its quite fast even in a small switch
<ball> small switch?
<jsgotangco> i have a pocket switch here just 4 ports
<ball> 100baseTX switch?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> 0825 build is actually good
<ball> Oh dear, it's time that I was in bed
<ball> Goodnight all.
<JaneW> this laptop is making me furious...
* JaneW has totally given up on wireless now and resorted to old fashioned (yet reliable) ethernet
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<JaneW> where's ogra again?
<JaneW> more line trouble for him too?
<jsgotangco> he left us...
<jsgotangco> and gave all the remaining work to you..
<JaneW> YAY :)
* JaneW slits wrists
<jsgotangco> so we will wait your upcoming packages
* JaneW heads off to post office, with ticking package underarm...
* jsgotangco hopes its not for him
<JaneW> did I mention it's a MANILLA envelope....?
<jsgotangco> its only 1 L
<JaneW> sorry
<JaneW> my lack of spelling skills is surpassed only by my lack of typing skills
<JaneW> although I seems to do 43 wpm consistently... how good/bad is that?
<JaneW> seem
<jsgotangco> JaneW, I can do 72
<JaneW> no way!
<jsgotangco> I had typing classes during HS and college
* JaneW feels so inadequate now
<JaneW> and I still look at my hands most of the time
<jsgotangco> with huge IBM and Olympia typewriters
* JaneW learned on IRC in 1994/1995
<jsgotangco> I could probably excel as a transcription professional
<jsgotangco> and just forget about Linux haha
<JaneW> I use 6 fingers... I am now aware of using more than that, but I am typing thing now to check, NOPE IT;S 8
<jsgotangco> if you were trained to touch type, its quite easy
<jsgotangco> although i can only do it in a US keyboard
<JaneW> It's just the little fingers tha get ignored, the ring fingers do shift and enter ;)
<JaneW> typing was seen as lame at school
<jsgotangco> it also helps if i use a full size keyboard instead of a laptop keyboard
<JaneW> and only the 'stupid' kids did it
<JaneW> if only we knew...
<jsgotangco> eh?
<JaneW> it was one of the only subjects teaching a skill you could actually use!
<jsgotangco> aaa ;;; sss lll
<jsgotangco> asdf jkl;
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> have you heard of the game typer shark for windows
<jsgotangco> its actually much more exciting than mavis beacon
* jsgotangco begins to think if there are any typing tutorial apps in linux
<jsgotangco> i also bought "typing of the dead"
<JaneW> in our school it was only taken by kids who had dropped 'real' subjects like maths, accountancy etc, and needed something 'easy' to fill the gap
<JaneW> what can I say it was an academic (read elitist) school
<JaneW> now I know that was far from the truth and those who took typing have a distinct advantage
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> i also took accounting
<jsgotangco> never had that much use of it
<jsgotangco> JaneW, have you heard of typing of the dead
<DanielC> Hello. I'm making progress, albeit very slowly.
<DanielC> My thin client boots now, but I can't login.
<JaneW> jsgotangco: huh?
<DanielC> This is strange. I can't login even from a tty.
<JaneW> DanielC: good to hear - glad mdz was able to help you..
<DanielC> I get a "Login incorrect" message.
<DanielC> JaneW: Yeah... :)
<JaneW> DanielC: it's a pitty Ogra is not here again
<DanielC> Still having ISDN problems?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A//www.planetdreamcast.com/games/reviews/typingofthedead/&ei=MeEOQ9jAMJOWswG40r2kCg
<jsgotangco> oopps
<jsgotangco> http://www.planetdreamcast.com/games/reviews/typingofthedead/ rather
<JaneW> jsgotangco: looks like fun
<DanielC> If I my ask, what is ogra's and mdz' role in Edubuntu? I noticed that someone on the list deferred to mdz...  Just trying to learn who is who  :-)
<DanielC> if I *may* ask...  :-)
<JaneW> what's up with my link....?
<JaneW> must be the gale force wind and rain.
<JaneW> DanielC: ping
<DanielC> JaneW: pong
<DanielC> hi
<JaneW> DanielC: hi, did your question get answered earlier?
<JaneW> re ogra and mdz?
<DanielC> No, I didn't.
<JaneW> ok, well I can shed some light
<DanielC> :-)
<JaneW> mdz is Canonical's CTO
<JaneW> chief technical officer
* DanielC was about to ask  :-)
<JaneW> so he is in charge of everything we release
<JaneW> and gets to decide what's in and what's out etc
<JaneW> and approves decisions and delays etc
<JaneW> we all report to him 
<DanielC> So the CTO is answering support questions on the list?
<JaneW> ogra is the developement lead for edubuntu
<JaneW> our CTO is very involved yes ;)
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> you don't see that often...
<JaneW> and VERY knowledgable too
<DanielC> :-)
<JaneW> the fact that he wrote (and/or customised) the LTSP package played a role in him responding in this case too
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> If I may ask, what do you do?
<DanielC> what's your area?
<JaneW> I am a project manager
<JaneW> so I am trying to co-ordinate all the bits of edubuntu
<JaneW> and hopefully they'll all tie up nicely as we reach the launch date
<DanielC> What's the difference between a project manager and a lead?
<JaneW> it's about having lots of responsibility, but not very much control ;)
<DanielC> :-)
<JaneW> a PM watches the 'triple constraint'
* DanielC wonders what that is...
<JaneW> Time, Cost/Budget, Quality
<DanielC> ah
<JaneW> changing one always affects the others
<JaneW> I only started with Canonical in April, so am new to this world
<DanielC> Ok. Running a project is a balancing act, and your job is to find a good balance.
<JaneW> I was working main-stream before, so this is quite different
<JaneW> nod
<DanielC> Do you like it so far?
<JaneW> yes, but I still don;t understand everything
<JaneW> I am loving using Ubuntu
<JaneW> until I decided to d/l and install a program
<DanielC> new experiences is what makes life interesting :-)
<JaneW> and then I fnd I don't know what to do
<JaneW> it's all so very different
<DanielC> It's certainly different.
<DanielC> I like the way installation works on Ubuntu/Debian better, but it's very different from other environments.
<DanielC> Do you know how to install software now?
<JaneW> I like to think I represent a large portion of the target market
<JaneW> so if it;s made so I can understand and handle it, many people will
<JaneW> (I am an above average windows user, and do have some AIX exeperience too)
<JaneW> well I tired to install freemind, but I had a conflict so I eventually gave up
<DanielC> Sounds like a good POV.
<JaneW> I also installed flash and that caused havoc so I had to remove it again...
<DanielC> :(
<JaneW> yep, so no funky flash sites for me...
<DanielC> Are you running Hoary?
<JaneW> yes
<DanielC> I see that freemind is not in the archives :(
<DanielC> I guess that explains why it's hard.
<JaneW> I have Breezy (installed beg July) but it has no sound...?
<JaneW> so I mostly stick with hoary
<DanielC> Installing from the archives is easy. Installing something that's not on the archives might be anywhere from easy to impossible.
<DanielC> I got flash installed by following the instructions on ubuntuguide.org
<DanielC> I think it's well written. The steps are clear and unambiguous.
<DanielC> At least, I thought so... then again, I'm used to Linux.
<DanielC> I've been using it for 7 years.
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> I installed the default from a web page first (mistake)
<JaneW> then I installed from inside ubuntu - easy
<DanielC> :-)
<JaneW> but it still didn;t work
<DanielC> oh
<JaneW> or at least it did, the falsh part was fine, but it made ff unstable and if I tried to edit a wiki all ff wondows would crash
<JaneW> I need to edit wikis, so I had to uninstall
<DanielC> That's surprising...
<DanielC> and bad.
<JaneW> yep
<DanielC> A broken flash shouldn't kill ff.
<DanielC> Well, thank you for the introductions.
<JaneW> np :)
<highvoltage> i wish i could know as much as mdz or ogra.
<DanielC> I'm impressed that the people in charge are so easy to reach. That's very cool.
<highvoltage> oh sorry, i'm replying to old messages PgDn...
<highvoltage> i'm sure when I'm as old as they are I will though :)
* highvoltage ducks
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> highvoltage: how old are you?
<highvoltage> 23
<highvoltage> quite old myself, now that i think of it.
<DanielC> prime of your youth :-)
<DanielC> I'm a geezer. I'm 26  :-)
<highvoltage> hehe.
<highvoltage> i think prime was at about 8, from there it was just downhill
<DanielC> I think 18-24 is are the prime years.
<highvoltage> did you know, that when you're about 10, your hearing starts to weaken?
<DanielC> no, I didn't.
<DanielC> That's interesting.
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<highvoltage> yes, it is. a friend of mine has a philosophy, that if you never drink, smoke, etc. you might just die healthy.
<mpt> When you're 18, your sex drive starts decreasing
<mpt> When you're 30, you start getting shorter
<DanielC> mpt: Is that true? about the sex drive?
<mpt> not sure :-)
<highvoltage> i think i'm genetically younger than other people my age.
<highvoltage> perhaps because i don't drink or smoke much.
<DanielC> I don't drink and smoke at all.
<DanielC> I think that just means I'm smarter than most people.  :-)
<DanielC> Okay, I'll have a glass of wine now and again...
<mpt> ah, yes, it is true DanielC
<highvoltage> DanielC: most people who don't, do think they're smarter ;)
<mpt> http://straightdope.com/classics/a2_208.html
<DanielC> smoking is particularly dumb.
<highvoltage> so, how do we fit all these life lessons into edubuntu?
<DanielC> you spend all this money on something that tastes bad and hurts your lungs.
<highvoltage> :)
<DanielC> This is an educational discussion  :-)
<DanielC> Alcohol is different because some types actually taste good, and moderate quantities actually improve your health.
<highvoltage> we should have splash screens "smoking causes cancer", "don't smoke around children", before they know it, the entire school will be smoking :)
<DanielC> :-)
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(mpt/#edubuntu) "don't drink"
<mpt> "be nice to your teachers"
<JaneW> DanielC: even sabdfl hangs around in #ubunut-devel and talk to people directly
<JaneW> it's literally and open company ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: so do I!
<JaneW> s/and/an
<JaneW> sorry more typos than usual - I am trying to eat lunch and read something ;)
<DanielC> JaneW: Who is sabdfl ?
<highvoltage> self appointed benevolent dictator for life.
<highvoltage> aka Mark Shuttleworth
<DanielC> Mark?
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> cool
<highvoltage> aka founder of Canonical/Ubuntu
<highvoltage> aka space traveler
<DanielC> I hear Mark's a cool guy.
<highvoltage> aka founder of shuttleworth foundation
<highvoltage> etc :)
<DanielC> My employer met him last week to talk about education.
<highvoltage> well, if it wasn't for his hairstyle... but that's contraversial
<DanielC> :-)
<highvoltage> in south africa, two newspapers even had articles about the various bad hairstyles he's had before :)
<DanielC> he he
<JaneW> been lagged but technically niether 18 nor 24 are 'prime
<JaneW> '
<DanielC> JaneW: what's the prime then? :-)
<highvoltage> damn. and there i though i had something to look forward to for next year.
<highvoltage> DanielC: i think it's at 11% or something atm.
<JaneW> prime = divisible by itself and 1 only :P
<DanielC> he he
<JaneW> so who's lost their braincell now!?
<highvoltage> ah, yes.
<JaneW> and I'll a cretin of 31
<highvoltage> ok, so i'm at prime atm :)
* JaneW too
<DanielC> :-)
<highvoltage> actually i like the even numbered ages better.
<highvoltage> (or at least so far)
* DanielC is an even numbered age :-)
<highvoltage> every odd year, i take on too much and end up doing way too much work. on the even numbers, i relax a bit and enjoy life.
<JaneW> oh and yes Mark is a cool guy
<highvoltage> (except for the hair)
<JaneW> highvoltage: really?
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm quite sure the entire 12 plein street is in agreement about that? or are you objecting?
<DanielC> JaneW: Do you meet often? I know he's in London. And Canonical is supposed to be based in South Africa.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'll find you those newspaper articles, kim still has them :)
<highvoltage> DanielC: no it's not.
<JaneW> Canonical is based in Isle of Man
<JaneW> Mark is in London
<JaneW> I am in SA
<JaneW> as is highvoltage 
* highvoltage too
<DanielC> Isle of Man?  That's news to me.
<JaneW> ogra is ain Germany
<highvoltage> DanielC: they say so on the ubuntu site, and on distrowatch
<highvoltage> DanielC: it's well documented everywhere :)
<highvoltage> DanielC: it was even on slashdot a few weeks ago.
* DanielC doesn't venture through Distrowatch often.
* DanielC doesn't do /.
<highvoltage> what do you do? AOL time warner?
<DanielC> highvoltage: I take it that you work for Canonical too then?
<highvoltage> ;)
<highvoltage> DanielC: no.
<DanielC> ok
<highvoltage> I work on the non-profit side- shuttleworth foundation.
<DanielC> FWIW I'm in Birmingham, UK :-)
<DanielC> 2 months ago I was in the USA
<JaneW> DanielC: cool
<DanielC> 3 years before I was in Canada
<highvoltage> but i'm jumping into edubuntu, and it's nice to be involved. i'll be doing more and more as i get things organised.
<DanielC> and 9 years before that I was in Venezuela.
<highvoltage> DanielC: what nationality are you?
<DanielC> I'm a dual citizen of Venezuela and Canada.
<DanielC> I'm special  :-)
<JaneW> 2 months ago we were in London
<DanielC> JaneW: Meeting Mark?
<JaneW> DanielC: well meeting with him - we have met him before...
<DanielC> I've just been to London once. I liked it.
<DanielC> Yeah, that's what I meant, meeting with him.
<JaneW> I sort of liked it, but found it pretty dirty surprisingly
<DanielC> really?
<JaneW> DanielC: oic, well then yes...
<DanielC> I didn't notice it being particularly dirty. Certainly cleaner than Washington DC  (where I was located before).
<highvoltage> JaneW: dirty?
<highvoltage> oh, London. :)
<JaneW> DanielC: see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSummitGallerys
<highvoltage> hehe...i thought you meant mark.
* DanielC clicks
<DanielC> he he
<DanielC> That would have been an interesting comment.
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes I meant London was dirty as in grimey and sooty - no other interpretations please!
<highvoltage> the station at westminster was *very* dirty
<highvoltage> it made me think of Bellville station.
<JaneW> ppl complain about SA being dirty but it's not
<JaneW> we wash our roads!
<DanielC> what's SA?
<highvoltage> South Africa
<DanielC> I thought you were in the states?
<highvoltage> nope, we're in south africa.
<DanielC> ok
<highvoltage> we're too cool for the states.
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> that's a good man...
<DanielC> I am too. That's why I left... :-)
<JaneW> hehe
<JaneW> DanielC: so you're a yank?
<DanielC> Are most employees in SA?
<JaneW> *run*
<DanielC> argh!
<JaneW> DanielC: nope
<highvoltage> DanielC: spread across the world!
* highvoltage packs up to go home
<highvoltage> bye!
<DanielC> No, I'm not a yank.
<JaneW> DanielC: there are 5 Canonical employees in SA the rest are ALL over the world
<DanielC> that's very cool.
<highvoltage> JaneW: 5?
<JaneW> Australia, USA, CAnada, UK, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania you name it...
<JaneW> highvoltage: marilize, charles, morgan, eilise, adi and I
<JaneW> 6
<DanielC> Interesting.
<JaneW> but elise is not full time
<DanielC> It's a lot more spread out than most companies.
<DanielC> So you talk mostly by email and IRC then?
<JaneW> DanielC: there are obviously many more pple working for Mark in SA for HBD and TSF etc
<JaneW> DanielC: yes, IRC, e-mail and wikis
<DanielC> What's HBD?
<JaneW> DanielC: and we get together 2/3 times a year
<DanielC> TSF == The Shuttleworth Foundation ?
<JaneW> Here Be Dragons www.hbd.com
<JaneW> yes
<DanielC> So you get free trips around the world?
<DanielC> re HBD:  Ok, I see.
<DanielC> The Edubuntu summit looks like it was fun.
<JaneW> DanielC: well yes the company sponsors us to attend INSTENSIVE work weeks (7-12 days)
<DanielC> So, the idea is that all the employees from around the world get together to work for 7-12 days?
<JaneW> I found the hair article
<JaneW> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20050209102227763C337661
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> It sounds like working for Canonical should be an interesting experience.
<JaneW> DanielC: see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
<JaneW> that's the next Dev Summit
* DanielC clicks
<JaneW> DanielC: interesting it is
<DanielC> So, you get to travel a lot it seems. That's very neat.
<DanielC> I'm lucky to be employed at an open source company. It's a small business, but I get to work on FOSS all day.
<JaneW> the travelling's cool - I just kind of wish it was 10 years ago
<JaneW> (for me)
<DanielC> :-)
<JaneW> would have been much more fun (and free spirited)
<DanielC> 31 is not a bad age to travel at.
<JaneW> DanielC: agreed, but married, kids, cars, mortgage etc makes things less flexible
<DanielC> I'm not far from your age, and I love travelling.
<DanielC> ah
<JaneW> so much more co-ordination involved
<DanielC> Yeah... I see.
<DanielC> I'm still single, so I can still move about with minimal coordination.
<JaneW> right
<DanielC> well, I'm glad you are doing something interesting.
<DanielC> that's what makes life fun to live :)
<JaneW> yes
<DanielC> Is ogra still having ISDN problems?
<DanielC> I'm stuck with a problem. I can't login from the thin client. I sent an email to the mailing list, but haven't had a response.
<JaneW> ogra has responded go look
<DanielC> ok, thanks
<JaneW> I have a feeling ogra is knuckling down to work and so is staying off line for a bit
<DanielC> "knuckling down to work" ?  What does that mean?
<JaneW> 'nose to the grind stone' 'back to the salk mines'
<JaneW> salt I mean
<DanielC> ok, thanks.
<JaneW> 'getting stuck in'
<JaneW> got it?
<DanielC> I'm still confused by some expressions :-)  Yes, I got it now.
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco , been to the pub again?
<JaneW> being Friday and all ;)
<jsgotangco> lol no
<jsgotangco> no more budget for the week
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> im just going to spend the night trying to figure out my schedule and life
<smykes> will alexandria be included in edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> im not sure
<jsgotangco> let me check
<smykes> I didnt see it on the list
<smykes> and Im trying to get it running on my classroom ubuntu box
<smykes> but it just sits there when I try and search
<jsgotangco> smykes: if its the Universe repository, you can just download it
<jsgotangco> the listing means that it has passed QA and security checks
<jsgotangco> to be included in Main
<jsgotangco> other than that, it is probably in Universe
<smykes> it seems I have the latest version
<smykes> its just kind of odd
<jsgotangco> because?
<smykes> it opens 
<smykes> it just wont search
<jsgotangco> smykes: where did you get it
<smykes> sudo apt-get install alexandria
<DanielC> JaneW: Do Canonical employees often answer questions over the weekend?  Ogra's suggestion worked, btw. I can login from the text terminal. So now I'll start trying to fix the graphical login.
<jsgotangco> DanielC: sure if they're online
<jsgotangco> (its not like it has an office anyways)
<JaneW> DanielC: there's generally always folk around on the week end
<DanielC> Ok, thanks. Good to know.
<JaneW> luck of the draw though
<jsgotangco> smykes: oh its in Universe, if you encounter a problem, file a bug in launchpad.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> smykes: via Malone
<smykes> if I cant get alexandria working can you sugges another database app like filemaker or acces
<smykes> only better then access
<jsgotangco> im not sure ogra will be over here the weekend either...
<jsgotangco> smykes: breezy will have OOo 2 with a database application similar to access
<jsgotangco> its actually good
<smykes> is that open office?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> OOo Base
<smykes> what would I apt get for that
<smykes> what name
<jsgotangco> are you in Hoary?
<smykes> I believe so yes
<jsgotangco> (i wouldn't recommend it in Ubuntu 5.04)
<smykes> whats the command line for os version
<jsgotangco> uname -a
<jsgotangco> put it and i'll see what you're using
<smykes> Linux ubuntu 2.6.10-5-386 #1 Thu Aug 18 22:23:56 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
<jsgotangco> you're in Hoary
<smykes> ok
<smykes> two more questions sorry
<jsgotangco> sure (im not doing anything actually)
<smykes> the database thing, I need to do inventory of all my instruments in the room
<smykes> recomendations
<smykes> and a content filter because sometimes students get on this machine
<jsgotangco> inventory hmmm
<jsgotangco> your linux skill level?
<smykes> Im an OS X user
<smykes> so low
<smykes> ;)
<jsgotangco> i see hmmm
<smykes> I know enough to be dangerous
<jsgotangco> im a filemaker user myself...
<smykes> oh yeah I know filemaker
<jsgotangco> i can only say OOo Base for a desktop database
<smykes> but it costs money
<smykes> this is a public school ;)
<jsgotangco> there are loads of free software out there for inventory but it may require some skill....
<smykes> yeah
<smykes> just looking for something with a frontend
<jsgotangco> im sorry i really can't say...
<jsgotangco> i'm so biased with OOo base :)
<smykes> heh
<smykes> what about content filtering?
<jsgotangco> content like adult sites, etc.?
<smykes> pretty much
<jsgotangco> there's squidguard...BUT
<jsgotangco> there's always the BUT
<smykes> oh theres always a but
<jsgotangco> Edubuntu should address those things soon
<jsgotangco> as for a stable desktop database, I'd wait at least 2 months :)
<jsgotangco> because OOo Base 2 is really good
<jsgotangco> you can actually download it for hoary but its horribly slow
<jsgotangco> the GCC 4 transition did wonders on it
<smykes> I have to say I love Ubuntu
<smykes> its great
<jsgotangco> smykes: Edubuntu however is a server environment
<smykes> but the release date for edubuntu, I know it coincide with ubuntu, causes some problems for educators, summers is when we learn things
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<smykes> im not saying that to put it down at all
<smykes> because its great
<smykes> its just once school starts up, time becomes less and less available
<jsgotangco> smykes: i hope you don't get disappointed with the initial release, our goals were minimal but we intend to grow with it
<smykes> oh I know I wont be disapointed
<smykes> and what you are doing is great
<smykes> the timing, which isnt your fault, is just two or thee months off
<jsgotangco> perhaps we can consider that next time
<jsgotangco> we just coincide with ubuntu/kubuntu naturally
<smykes> yeah I know
<smykes> thats why im saying its not your fault
<smykes> im going to try this bumblebe app
<smykes> if I can get it running
<smykes> something about GladeXML.pm
<jsgotangco> smykes: brb i have a meeting with the docteam in #ubuntu-meeting feel free to come if you want
<smykes> thanks
<smykes> for your help
<DanielC> I think I've located the problem. The thin client is mounting the file system as read-only.
<DanielC> That's why other things are breaking.
<DanielC> For example, when you login through the GUI, X will write a few files to your home directory, and if it can't it'll log you out. I've seen this before.
<DanielC> Does anyone know how to make the clients mount the file system read-write ?
<jsgotangco> he ogra any success with your dsl?
<ogra> seems to work agaon :)
<ogra> again
<DanielC> ogra: thanks for the help.
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<DanielC> ogra: I can login from a tty now. I experimented a bit and it turns out that the problem is that the client is mounting the file system as read-only.
<DanielC> Very strange.
<ogra> no thats ok
<DanielC> it is?
<ogra> (if you mean the local filesystem on the client)
<DanielC> But you can't write any files...
<ogra> the login manager then opens a ssh tunneled X session
<DanielC> Ok, then the problem must be on the ssh tunnel. I'll check the logs, one sec...
<ogra> you can, via the chroot command on the server.... what you have on the client is /opt/ltsp/i386 ;)
<DanielC> "Could not create directory '/root/.ssh'"
<DanielC> The other lines in the log didn't look like errors.
<JaneW> DanielC: you are awarded one of my 'Virtual Gold Star's (TM) for being the most tenacious tester we have...
<JaneW> well done
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> Thanks.
<DanielC> ogra: I don't understand most of the log, so I don't know what's relevant and what's not...
<DanielC> Okay, I just sent the log to the list.
<jsgotangco> JaneW: bah
<jsgotangco> you award someone with a star while we toil with your whip
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> jsgotangco: I take it you work for Canonical?
<jsgotangco> no
<DanielC> ok
<jsgotangco> i have met them though
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> are you developer then?
<jsgotangco> sort of
<DanielC> :-)
<jsgotangco> i was part of the original Edubuntu spec writers
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> do you have experience in education?
<jsgotangco> no its my interest though
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> that still works :-)
<jsgotangco> i don't know why exactly..probably its because i already have a child
<DanielC> are you a volunteer?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i didnt get that much quality education either but i can say i have fared well...
<DanielC> I'm interested in education :-)
<DanielC> It's certainly an important area to work on.
<jsgotangco> well yes, in my home country, we don't even have that much labs in public schools
<jsgotangco> or a computer even (sad)
<DanielC> which one is your home country?
<jsgotangco> Philippines
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> I grew up in Venezuela, so I'm familiar with the idea of schools with no resources.
<jsgotangco> yeah its sad really
<DanielC> Though I was lucky enough to go to a private school, I know that most of my contemporaries weren't as lucky.
<jsgotangco> i was in my hometown this morning and nothing really changed in my old school
<jsgotangco> night
<DanielC> ogra rocks
<DanielC> :-)
<ogra> heh, thanks :)
<DanielC> Will I have to update the ssh keys often?
<ogra> nope, only if you change the ip 
<ogra> (or name if DNS in your localnet is working)
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> We want to deploy this at a local school. They are aware that this is a bit of an experiment. Our deal with them is that they only pay for hardware and they allow us to use their school to learn how to setup thin clients.
<DanielC> But of course I want to make the experience positive for them. I want them to like Linux :-)
<ogra> :)
#edubuntu 2005-09-01
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<eps> any one have the deb lines for sources.list? I want the snapshot builds (using sid)
<eps> wws
<ball> hello jeang
<jeang> hiya
<ball> welcome back JaneW
<jsgotangco> hi all
<jsgotangco> JaneW: fancy seeing you here on a saturday
<DanielC> Hello, does anyone know where the icons for Nautilus are located?
<DanielC> Nautilus is not showing any icons. I want to check that they (the png files) are actually installed and readable.
<DanielC> I've tried changing the Nautilus theme with no effect.
<jeang> danielc  -  try  /usr/share/icons
<DanielC> jeang: thanks
<jeang> unfortunately I have installed icon sets so don't know what the default is ... sigh...8-)
<DanielC> :-)
<jsgotangco> the default for edubuntu should be gartoon (not so sure if its already packaged though)
<DanielC> My computer shows Human, Sandy, and a few others...
<jsgotangco> DanielC: because that's pretty much Ubuntu at the moment
<DanielC> Okay, I can see icons there, and they are definitely readable.
<DanielC> I would be happy for Ubuntu to use any theme that can display icons... but changing the theme doesn't seem to have any effect.
<DanielC> I'll keep trying... :-)
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu only has Human/Gnome icons by default
<DanielC> I would be happy if I could make Nautilus use those.
<jsgotangco> strange that nautilus doesnt use them
<jsgotangco> thouh
<DanielC> But as it is, every file and every folder has the same non-descript icon (the one that looks like a blank sheet of paper).
<DanielC> You know the icon Nautilus uses when it doesn't know what a file is. That's the one it uses for everything.
<jeang> you may need to install a icon set from gnome-look.org, default is pretty bland  
<DanielC> jeang: If I could get just the default to work that would suffice. :-)
<jeang> strangely when i run nautilus from a root terminal i get just the paper type icon, very few picture types.
<DanielC> hmm...
<DanielC> That's what I see right now with Edubuntu.
<DanielC> Strangely, that's only on the thin client.
<DanielC> On the server I can see the icons just fine.
<jeang> ok can't comment 'cos i'm running off a ubuntu box - so anything I say is probably absolute rubbish.
<jeang> isn't there a user.conf file on the server that you can mod to set the icon / theme for users??
<DanielC> I'm new at this. I've never heard of user.conf. Where can I find it?
<jeang> absolute stab in the dark 'cos I don't know enough about LTSP set ups
<jeang> but there must be some file for user defined data on the server!
<DanielC> yes, there is.
<DanielC> I just don't quite know how all this works.
<DanielC> I've been using the Gconf editor and the standard theme editor on the thin client.
<DanielC> Those should affect some file in ~/.gconf/ that tells Gnome what theme to use.
<DanielC> That's where my knowledge stops.
<jeang> hey don't look at me... any smart people in the room???
<DanielC> :-)
<jeang> I see seveas is here but he is busy on ubuntu-nl - maybe he can give a hint...
<Seveas> hm?
<Seveas> someone called?
<DanielC> Help help my icons are gone...  ;-)
<Seveas> look under your desk
<DanielC> I'm having problems with icons on Nautilus.
<DanielC> :-)
<jeang> damn another keyboard gone - dont drink and drive!
<DanielC> On the thin client, Nautilus is not showing the correct icons.
<DanielC> In deed, it uses the same icon for everything (all files and folders).
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> from all user accounts?
<DanielC> You know that icon of a blank sheet of paper? the one Nautilus uses when it doesn't know what to do? That's the one it uses for everything.
<DanielC> There is only one user so far.
<jsgotangco> im gonna play dungeon siege 2 first
<jsgotangco> brb
<DanielC> I only finished installing this last night.
<DanielC> I have found the icons that it *should* show.  They are in /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/filesystems/
<annomous> im thinking from a student point of view that it would not!!! be a good idea to add an irc client because itmight distract the students from whatever they are sapost to be doing
<DanielC> I can browse there and verify that the .svg files are there, and Nautilus can display them.
<annomous> or teacher point of wiew
<DanielC> It's very strange that on the server Nautilus uses the icons just fine. But on the client it doesn't.
<DanielC> Oh well, here's a different question. Does anyone know how to change the login screen to something that looks better?
<DanielC> Right now, on the thin client, you get a black background, and a little, unattractive login screen that says "LTSP Sever".
<DanielC> If I could change it to the default Ubuntu one, for example, I'd be very happy.
<DanielC> If I could just change the background to something, anything!, I'd be happy :-)
<DanielC> I tried the usual gdm config tool from the thin client, but it didn't make any difference.
<cyphase> hey everyone
<DanielC> hi
<jeang> hiya -sorry out replacing coffee levels......
#edubuntu 2005-09-02
<signifer123> hey
<LinuxJones> hi
<cyphase> hey everyone
<DanielC> Yo. Does anyone know how to get the "face browser" on the LTSP login screen?
<DanielC> I've tried using the GDM config tool without success.
<DanielC> I think the kids would love it if they could click on their class instead of typing a name.
<DanielC> (elementary school kids)
[Laur(n=chatzill@85.204.253.179)]  hi
<JeanG> daniel - get any further with the login screens?
<DanielC> JeanG: I discovered that the thin clients are not using GDM at all :-(
<DanielC> They are using what looks like a custom Gtk app.
<DanielC> It's written in Pythong+Gtk+Glade.
<DanielC> Python
<JeanG> pythong - someting to wear to the beach?
<DanielC> Python is a programming language. :-)
<DanielC> I looked at the source code to see if I could edit it to make it have a nice background at least.
<DanielC> But I just don't know enough about Python, or Gtk or Glade to make that change.
<JeanG> and they say linux is easy;)
<DanielC> hacking source code often isn't  :-)
<DanielC> I don't understand why it can't use GDM like everyone else...
<JeanG> maybe too much data for efficient thin client use?
<DanielC> maybe
<DanielC> that would make sense I guess.
<JeanG> have similar trouble with MS remote desktop on a busy network
<JeanG> time to poll out gigabit ;-)
<DanielC> gigabit?
<JeanG> err that should be roll out........
<JeanG> ethernet on a busy network
<DanielC> ok
!lilo:*! Hi all. A channel has been set up for hurricane tracking; currently it's looking at Katrina. Please stop by ##hurricane if you're interested. Thanks.
!lilo:*! Small non-main-rotation server split; about 500 users affected.
!lilo:*! Most of those would be IPv6 users.
#edubuntu 2005-09-03
<jsgotangco> hey all
<jsgotangco> JaneW: ping?
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<JaneW> what's up?
<JaneW> brb
<jsgotangco> gyaah
<jsgotangco> what's up then brb?
<jsgotangco> i was hoping to ask your opinion
<jsgotangco> err ogra?
<JaneW> relax
<JaneW> I said I'd brb
<JaneW> and here I am
* jsgotangco is cramming
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i'm supposed to give a talk on Free Software on 11 campuses starting wednesday
<jsgotangco> i want to ask if you I missed something
<JaneW> ok...
<jsgotangco> the talk is basically aobut FOSS trends and issues
<JaneW> 11!
<JaneW> wow
<jsgotangco> and the audience are students/facult
<JaneW> your very own roadshow tour
<jsgotangco> yes except i have no groupies
<JaneW> do you have groupies yet? ;)
<JaneW> snap
<jsgotangco> anyways, its at www.pcbuyersguide.com.ph
<jsgotangco> so i have this FOSS talk
<jsgotangco> i started the slide with "My Involvement" sort of an introduction of myself
<jsgotangco> then i went ahead to "FOSS in a nutshell" sort of a primer
<jsgotangco> then "FOSS Today"
<jsgotangco> "WHY FOSS?" - a general question with general answers
<jsgotangco> then i go specifically to the academe
<jsgotangco> "Why schools should use FOSS"
<jsgotangco> "Why students should use FOSS"
<jsgotangco> then "FOSS in the future" (If i find one)
<jsgotangco> then close it up with 3 slides like "Getting Started", "Getting Involved" and probably a demo of the OpenCD
<jsgotangco> some material in the cookbook has been helpful
<jsgotangco> (FOSS in the future would probably include Edubuntu)
<jsgotangco> i'm only given 45 mins btw.
<jsgotangco> Ms Weideman?
<jsgotangco> :)
<JaneW> yes
<JaneW> sounds good 
<jsgotangco> err nothing to add that i missed?
<JaneW> where am I looking on that link?
<jsgotangco> no its not there yet
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> sorry my mind is one something else
<JaneW> let me focus...
<jsgotangco> if you're quite busy, don't worry about it let me do the worrying :)
<JaneW> have you had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations yet?
<JaneW> I can;t immediately find any gaps in your topics, sounds pretty well rounded
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that is Ubuntu-specific I will be presenting an adaptation of Mako and Jeff's slides on the 14th at LinuxWorld
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> ok so you are talkking FOSS in general?
<JaneW> but will punt us subtelly anyway? ;)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: yup
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i'll be RMS without the beard
<jsgotangco> and the zealotry
<JaneW> lol
<ogra> morning...
<jsgotangco> hi ogra
<jsgotangco> JaneW: so i guess its quite ok?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes I think tat looks good, I am happy to review once you have some info... but your headings are fine :)
<jsgotangco> ok I am doing it in OOo 2 btw so it'll be a bit different than your usual OOo file
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<ogra> highvoltage, additional ping....
<JaneW> highvoltage/ ogra: do you have edit rights on all the edubuntu wiki pages?
* JaneW wants to edit the fortunecookies page - but does not have the required access, and elmo has not yet responded to my request.
<ogra> no idea, all i needed to edit i could edit in the past... any specific page ? 
<JaneW> ^^
<ogra> me neither..
<ogra> so lets for elmo :)
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<pvanhoof> lol
<pvanhoof> This is the result of nickserv being slow
<pvanhoof> it's exactly what the spammed needed :)
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<Micksa> WTF?
[adanam(n=azrailin@210.213.186.222)]  Free WebCamera Sex Movie For sign =>  http://canliporno.gen.ms 
<Micksa> oh, farkinell
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<ogra:#edubuntu> JaneW, if in the future someone complains about missing gui login... not themeable etc, point them to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/, there is a themeable login manager ... not sure if mdz will include it
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<thenuke> unregged
<JaneW:#edubuntu> ok will do..
<ogra:#edubuntu> highvoltage, do you have a rinniong edubuntu ltsp around where you could test this ?
* JaneW is not sure if elmo will respond to a request from me...
<ogra:#edubuntu> running even
<JaneW:#edubuntu> ogra: can you put a note of that on the wiki on yout testing page?
<ogra:#edubuntu> elmo worked until 6am (according to the logs) i doubt he'll be up early
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> ogra: ok, he no doubt has more nb things going on... ours is low priorty...
<Znarl> 0/leave ubuntu-unregged
<ogra:#edubuntu> JaneW, i dont want to make it official yet, i sent the first version of it to mdz around wednesday, he didnt include it yet... and my installation of the tool is pretty intrusive as longas its not integrated in the packae
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<ogra:#edubuntu> ... thats why i didnt hint to it on the mailing list (there was just a discussion going on) 
<JaneW:#edubuntu> yes I saw that...
<ogra:#edubuntu> but i'll mail flint and jelkner about it.... the were so sad about our current login screen (which is understandable, its ugly)
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> heh, ok
<ogra:#edubuntu> my new version mimics gdm as we all know it... 
<JaneW:#edubuntu> how's it going atm
<ogra:#edubuntu> and is nearly as themable as gdm
<JaneW:#edubuntu> it seems progress has been made...?
<JaneW:#edubuntu> cool :)
<ogra:#edubuntu> the Cd is falling apart, i urgently need Kamion, i dont know why random packages dissapear from the builds...
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<ogra:#edubuntu> but he'll be back in two days... then everything gets sorted...
<ogra:#edubuntu> additionally i'm wrking to get the artwork package in shape...
<ogra:#edubuntu> and try to catch up o my normal distro stuff (xscreensaver etc)
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<ogra:#edubuntu> my cat lost her babies tonight... i didnt get much sleep...
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<the_dude> exit
<the_dude> aaargh!
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<rem__> REGISTER test
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> ogra: lost, or gave birth?
<JaneW:#edubuntu> are they alive?
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> I am u/l another wall paper and some more community artwork stuff...
<ogra:#edubuntu> JaneW, grave birth... four weeks to early...
<JaneW:#edubuntu> ogra: wow... shame. :(
<ogra:#edubuntu> but thats fine, she's a kitten herself, way to young to have own kittens
<JaneW:#edubuntu> ogra: didn;t think that really happened to animals
<JaneW:#edubuntu> they must have been tiny
<ogra:#edubuntu> and she'll have new ones soon, i'm sure... my only sorrow was that themother survives....
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<ogra:#edubuntu> like a little finger...
<ogra:#edubuntu> but it was quite a bloody night over here... the cat is already hunting mice again...
<JaneW:#edubuntu> you should get her sterilised - it's bad for them to have kitten too young
<JaneW:#edubuntu> weakens their bones
<ogra:#edubuntu> yup...
<ogra:#edubuntu> it was to late... we bought her as a male ;) 
* JaneW helped her cat give birth - I was 13. Prepared me well ;)
<JaneW:#edubuntu> LOL
<JaneW:#edubuntu> sorry that sounded funny
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> so is she ok do you think?
<ogra:#edubuntu> and found out about her real gender when she was moaning in our garden below the oter cat...
<ogra:#edubuntu> yup, i thin so
<JaneW:#edubuntu> bwahaha
<JaneW:#edubuntu> reminds me of a joke
<JaneW:#edubuntu> 'mommy mommy there's a flat cat outside...'
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<JaneW:#edubuntu> 'how do you know it's flat?'
<JaneW:#edubuntu> '...well there's another cat trying to pump it up again...'
<ogra:#edubuntu> hehe
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* Total uptime :    8d  6h 13m  1s
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* ..[topic/#edubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 2 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<Petaris> ogra: My client won't boot since I did that upgrade
<sivang> it's nice here. KInda reminds me of the prerelease times of Ubuntu :)
<sivang> no too many people, low traffic 
<JaneW> sivang: hehe
<JaneW> it's worse than usual right now...
<sivang> JaneW: you mean it's actually more stressed now?
<JaneW> no less so
<JaneW> I mean worse = less frequented
<JaneW> orga and highvoltage and mdz  and jsgotangco etc are usually here
<sivang> JaneW: ah well, I've seen ogra some minutes ago - he will probably be back soon
<sivang> JaneW: I am downloaidn gthe test image atm
<JaneW> sivang: yay - THANK-YOU
<JaneW> (shouting intended)
<sivang> JaneW: when are we expecting to release Edubuntu? the same time like Breezy?
<JaneW> yes
<JaneW> most likely same day
<JaneW> but at least within a week
<sivang> ok, it's good to have a security time break, to allow for last minutes fixes and changes
<ogra> JaneW, argh, you broke reply to ?? 
<JaneW> what?
<JaneW> DanielC was whining about it...
<JaneW> must I put it back?
<ogra> JaneW, its considered bad habit to mangle the mailheaders
<ogra> and you break the standards :)
<JaneW> but I chose NO to the strip mail headers option
<JaneW> ok I'll put it back...
<ogra> you changed the default, the drefault is the right option :)
<ogra> the problem with thnderbird is that it still doesnt have a reply-to-list function... (there is a bug open about that since years)
<JaneW> reverted
<JaneW> can't please everyone...
<ogra> but the problem with header rewriting is, that you affect every user... i.e. if i explicitly want to answer off list, my answer goes directly to the list instead of the poster... imagine that with a mail like "blah blah is an idiot to ask such questions"
<ogra> err.... the problem with header rewriting is, that you affect every user... i.e. if i explicitly want to answer off list, my answer goes directly to the list instead of the poster... imagine that with a mail like "blah blah is an idiot to ask such questions"
<mpt> The problem with mail clients, including Thunderbird, is that they expect you to decide whether your reply would best go to the sender or to everyone *before* you've even written it
<JaneW> ogra: seems to be called munging...
<JaneW> mpt: that's not unreasonable...
<ogra> err, yes, i always muddle munging/mangling
<JaneW> mpt: or it;s just what I am used to...
<mpt> JaneW: You're only used to it because almost all clients work that way
<mpt> the only exception I've seen is MT-NewsWatcher
<JaneW> mpt: but then that includes top posting... so perhaps I am not the best person to comment ;)
<mpt> http://www.smfr.org/mtnw/docs/img/choose_personality.png
<JaneW> OSS ppl are certainly pedantic ^h^h^h^h...big on principles ;)
<mpt> See it has toggle buttons for "Post News" (the equivalent of "Reply to List"), "Send Email" (the equivalent of "Reply to Sender"), and "Copy Self", all in the composition window itself
<JaneW> ok
<mpt> that would make people much more likely to choose the right options
<JaneW> yes agreed
<ogra> whats "copy self" ? make a clone of the poster to send the mail for you ? :)
<mpt> It's sending a copy to yourself
<ogra> ah...
<ogra> lost in translation ;)
* JaneW is heading off now
<JaneW> *wave*
<mpt> The world still doesn't have a decent e-mail program :-)
<mpt> tchau JaneW
<JaneW> what language is that?
<ogra> ciao JaneW 
<JaneW> bye :)
<mpt> Portugese
<ogra> or northern german wit a missing s (tschau)
<Petaris> ogra: I can't boot my client after I upgraded it on Wednesday
<ogra> where does it break ? 
<ogra> (or how)
<Petaris> Run init: opening console: no fi9le or directory
<Petaris> right after init-bottom runs
<ogra> which version of mkinitramfs do you have installed ? there was a serious bug in one of the last uploads... 
<ogra> dpkg -l initramfs-tools
* Petaris looks
<ogra> i think 0.23 was broken, 0.24 has the fix
<ogra> oh, and thats only relevant if you dont have a nfs-server timeout before already... make sure the nfs is working right..
<Petaris> it says no package found
<ogra> on the server ? or in the chroot ? 
<ogra> (i'm talking about the server)
<Petaris> on the server
<ogra> hmm
<Petaris> but your right, I'm getting an nfs error
<Petaris> nfs server not found
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> its running
<ogra> hmm, is the ip of the nfs server right ? 
<Petaris> yeah
<ogra> (the ip the client gets on boot) 
<ogra> did you try to boot the client a second time ? 
<Petaris> seems so
<Petaris> yeah, this is the third time round
<ogra> i know of a bug where you get such timeouts, but that only occurs on the first boot, the second should be fine
<Petaris> brbv
<Petaris> ok, I'm back
<ogra> Petaris, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12942
<Petaris> ogra: that could be the problem
<Petaris> Where would I set the sleep command
<ogra> there was a mail discussion about it on edubuntu-devel
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> damn, now I'm getting that seg fault agian
<ogra> a segfault ? 
<Petaris> yes
<ogra> describe it a bit more... where, when etc
<Petaris> that rcS.d/S02mountvirfs
<Petaris> er, S02mountvirtfs
<ogra> where in this script ? 
<Petaris> dosen't say
<Petaris> er wait
<Petaris> line 47
<ogra> hmm...
<Petaris> This now happens after I restarted nfs-kernel-server
<Petaris> er, well stoped then started
<ogra> portmap is running ? 
* Petaris checks
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> freenode crazyness...
<Petaris> still get it, even after restarting portmap
<ogra> the segfault ?
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> ogra: Do you know if there is a skubuntu irc channel?
<ogra> i doubt it... highvoltage is highly involved with skubuntu... ping him if he's around
<Petaris> ok, I'll give that a try
<Belutz> hai
<sivang> ogra: what's skubuntu?
<ogra> a ltsp based distro
<mpt> A South African prototype of Ubuntu, right?
<mpt> er, of Edubuntu I mean
<ogra> yup
<cyphase> hey everyone
#edubuntu 2005-09-04
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<dzfgbgvbegbergb> whts edubuntu?
<bdoin> http://www.edubuntu.org
<dzfgbgvbegbergb> k
<jsgotangco> hi all
<Belutz> hai
<Belutz> anyone alive ? :D
<JaneW> hi ogra
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW 
<JaneW> are your connection and cat problems sorted out?
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, how's the weekend
<JaneW> jsgotangco: fantastic - the weather improved and we were able to spend time outside - walked up Lion's Head (about half way cos had kids with me), fed ducks, took a long walk around neighbourhood etc
<JaneW> helps to clear the mind and recharge ;)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you?
<jsgotangco> oh you just made me envy of your environment
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> well we just cooked pasta at home for my birthday
<JaneW> http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Africa/South_Africa/Province_of_the_Western_Cape/Cape_Town-2225504/Off_the_Beaten_Path-Cape_Town-Lions_Head-BR-1.html
<JaneW> oh yes happy birthday for Sunday
<JaneW> was it a good day?
<jsgotangco> sure it was raining hard
<jsgotangco> (august sucks over here)
<JaneW> here too, it's been freezing cold, gale winds and storms
<JaneW> but it seems to be passing
<JaneW> or at least having a break now
<JaneW> so spring is in sight
<jsgotangco> how cold is cold?
<JaneW> um, about 9 degs max last week.
<JaneW> plus wind chill and rain
<JaneW> freezes you right through
<JaneW> I think it was 3 deg in the mornign
<JaneW> it's only a few degs warmer now, but the sun is out and there's no wind - it makes a huge difference
<jsgotangco> acckk
<jsgotangco> i wonder if cold weather can cure my allergies
* jsgotangco now focuses on linuxworld presentation
<JaneW> jsgotangco: if they are pollen allergies it prolly can
<jsgotangco> yeah its killing me
<jsgotangco> ogra: welcome back
<ogra> heya
<ogra> the new usplash is cool....
<ogra> i could boot all day now :)
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> are we getting our own usplash? :)
<ogra> i'm just thinking about it....
<ogra> i'm just thinking about it....
<ogra> you cant just change the graphics... i guess it requires our own usplash package...
<jsgotangco> hmm probably
<jsgotangco> it was packaged after all
<ogra> i have a similar prob with xscreensaver... the image can only be exchanged at compile time
<jsgotangco> have you tried today's build?
<jsgotangco> im doing an rsync at the moment
<ogra> there is a lot in the report....
<ogra> so it might not work.... havent rsynced yet
<jsgotangco> ill just test anyways nothing decent to do at the moment
<ogra> its very likely that desktop-base is missing and you cant install edubuntu-desktop.... i'm waiting for Kamion to help me sort that
<jsgotangco> i'll be speaking to 200 students tommorow about free software and will mention edubuntu in passing
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> (its only 1 school i am scheduled for 11)
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi JaneW. long time no see.
<JaneW> highvoltage: :)
<JaneW> in RL you mean?
<highvoltage> both :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I was there yesterday
<highvoltage> my internet connection at home has been down since friday, which sux.
<highvoltage> my isp was at my home this afternoon, but i couldn't be there so hopefully they could get it fixed without me.
<JaneW> hmmm... our ADSL has been dropping randomly 
<JaneW> annoying
<JaneW> not so bad for browsing and e-mail, but disruptive for IRC
<ogra> yup
<ogra> and uploads
<JaneW> ogra: yeah that too!
<mpt> JaneW: Perhaps the BreezyBounties page should be trimmed of the info about creating new bounties, since it's a bit late for that now? :-)
<JaneW> mpt: yes possibly
<JaneW> mpt: I'll move it to a holding page for the next realse cycle?
<JaneW> mpt: are you in Brazil?!
<mpt> JaneW: Sure, cut and paste it to DapperBounties :-)
<mpt> JaneW: Yes, the Launchpad conference was here, and kiko had invited me to stay for a few months, so I'll be here until UBZ and then again for a while afterward
<JaneW> is Dapper official now?
<mpt> I'm not sure
<JaneW> mpt: cool
<mpt> ogra: Breezy's current screensaver unlock dialog is a vanilla xscreensaver one ... what's going on there?
<ogra> mpt, the new one is ready, but i'm not allowed to upload it before  added a --blank only option to xscreensaver... mdz request
<ogra> mpt, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/screensaver/
<ogra> its already there...
<ogra> mpt, oh, and i didnt manage to get the unlock button in... it has only the "someone else..." 
<ogra> (would have been nearly a rewrite to daa this additional button)
<ogra> s/daa/add
<mpt> wow, a rewrite to add a button that does the same as the Enter key?
<ogra> yup
<mpt> is xscreensaver really that bad? :-)
<ogra> the code is odd...
<ogra> i'm really looking forward to gnome-screensaver in breezy+1
<mpt> yeah
<ogra> its able to handle all settings in gconf keys....
<ogra> way easier to manipulate....
<highvoltage> so.
<highvoltage> anyone seen sdm?
<ogra> highvoltage, do you have a current edubuntu ltsp running ? 
<ogra> if so, try this one: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/
<ogra> i hope mdz will accept it today...
<highvoltage> ogra: i will tonight. i downloaded the daily build on 15 August, will install that and do dist-upgrade.
<ogra> i'm not sure if the one from 15th works...
<ogra> the one from 18th does 
<highvoltage> i've started a new download, which should be finished tomorrow morning.
<ogra> phew
<ogra> why dont you rsync ? 
<ogra> rsyncing takes me about 15min between two dailies
<highvoltage> i haven't used rsync before. but i know i should. ok, i'll do an rsync.
<ogra> its mostly only some megabytes...
<highvoltage> topic
<highvoltage> sorry
<ogra> oh, i'm not sure if people.ubuntu.com provides rsync to sync my snaphot...
#edubuntu 2006-08-28
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<caravena> Hello, the pc ->http://pastebin.com/777634 support edubuntu 64?
<sbalneav> caravena: No, you're not running a 64 bit kernel there.
<caravena> sbalneav: ok.
<caravena> sbalneav: See info of x86info... I install edubuntu 64?
<sbalneav> Are you saying you DID install it, or are you asking if you NEED to install it?
<caravena> sbalneav: Need
<caravena> sbalneav: need to intall edubuntu 64 bits.
<sbalneav> Yes, you would need to do so.
<caravena> Ok, diferences in information of /proc/cpuinfo and x86info
<caravena> I read -> http://gentoo-wiki.com/Safe_Cflags#Sempron.2FSempron64_.28AMD.29 and confuse.
<caravena> sbalneav: I delete edubuntu 32 bits and install edubuntu 64?
<sbalneav> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06.1/
<sbalneav> you want the one that says:
<sbalneav> edubuntu-6.06.1-install-amd64.iso
<caravena> Yes, I dude in install edubuntu 64. I now work with edubuntu 32
<sbalneav> I'm not understanding you.
<sbalneav> Did you install edubuntu-6.06.1-install-amd64.iso?
<caravena> I question in install edubuntu 64. I now work with edubuntu 32. (Now you uderstand?)
<sbalneav> No, sorry, I dont understand.
<caravena> Not, you not install edubuntu 64. I install edubuntu 32.
<caravena> Arght, sorry.
<sbalneav> what cd did you install? 64 bit cd?
<caravena> Not, I not install edubuntu 64. I install edubuntu 32.
<sbalneav> ok, wel you need to install 64 bit.
<sbalneav> so download that iso, and install that one.
* caravena caravens slow, translate in google_translate...
<sbalneav> download edubuntu-6.06.1-install-amd64.iso
<sbalneav> install
<caravena> ok, wel you need to install 64 bit.:::: YES
<sbalneav> then it will work
<caravena> sbalneav: ok, My cpu support 64? I revise info in /proc/cpuinfo and not 64.... I read information in -> http://gentoo-wiki.com/Safe_Cflags#Sempron.2FSempron64_.28AMD.29 and not understand.
<sbalneav> Why are you reading a GENTOO site about EDUBUNTU
<sbalneav> two different things
<caravena> sbalneav: I want to know if I can install edubuntu 64. Already this working in 32. 
<sbalneav> Are you asking me if your processor is a 64 bit cpu?  According you what you pasted, it looks like it.  But I don't know for sure, because I haven't seen your machine.
<sbalneav> Why don't you try booting with the live 64 bit cd, and see if it works.
<sbalneav> if the 64 bit cd boots, then it should work.
<caravena> sbalneav: Ok, thanks. I now download edubuntu 64 and test.
<sbartleylinux> Can anyone tell me how to remove the hibernate button from the quit screen from a thin client connection?
<sbartleylinux> I understand that Ubuntu LTSP implementation uses ldm instead of gdm.  This sets the quit screen to not have shutdown and restart but to still have Hibernate.  Anyone know how to turn this off so a thin client user will not be able to hibernate the ltsp server?
<toosa> Hi, RichEd 
<RichEd> hi toosa ... 
<RichEd> toosa: apologies if you've been neglected ... majorly busy at the moment with planning
<toosa> ok
<toosa> btw, what is the URL that contain any presentation material for Edubuntu ?
<toosa> (I lost it :( )
<RichEd> let me look for you ...
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy <- school
<RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Presentations ... there you go
<toosa> thankyou v'much
<scythe> hi
<scythe> is it possible to lock the desktop, so that a user can't change icons, wallpaper, menu, ... ? I heard this is called "Kiosk-Mode" in german.
<RichEd> hi scythe : Edubuntu or Kubuntu ? i.e. GNOME or KDE
<scythe> RichEd: edubuntu, also GNOME
<scythe> RichEd: sorry, the "also" was german ;)
<RichEd> start here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=158917
<RichEd> you'll need to check it out properly for yourself ... i'm quite busy ... but that will point you in the right direction
<scythe> RichEd: thx. but this is for KDE, should it work for GNOME? I'm not sure.
<RichEd> look at the middle response link: See http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/latest/ch10.html
<scythe> RichEd: but good to know that its called "kiosk mode" in english too ;)
<RichEd> Ubuntu 6.06 "Dapper Drake" uses GNOME 2.14 and Pessulus (see http://www.gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rnadmins.html) is included in universe for this purpose.
<RichEd> okay now ?
<scythe> RichEd: yes, thx :)
<RichEd> :)
<Burgundavia> scythe: if you want to make more complex profiles, you need sabayon. If you need to make keys mandatory, you need to run pessulus with suod (which the menu item does not)
<scythe> Burgundavia: ah, will have a look at these programs. thx
<Burgundavia> no worries
<sir_hc> hi anyone around? i'm gettong no help in the ubuntu channel
<sir_hc> how do i 'log in' to the rescue prompt?
<scythe> bye
<RichEd> sir_hc: open a google page ... input this: [+ubuntu how do i 'log in' to the rescue prompt?]  it gives some reasonable looking results
<sir_hc> hmm i tried that, but phrased a little differently
<sir_hc> kk
<sir_hc> btw
<sir_hc> do u knwo of this problem?
<sir_hc> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=223265&page=1
<sir_hc> i know it's technically not edubuntu
<sir_hc> but still...
<spiekey> hello!
<spiekey> i there some german spelling software, too?
<RichEd> gun tag spiekey
<RichEd> have you checked the language packs ?
<spiekey> i did install the language pack when it asked for it.
<RichEd> brb
<spiekey> ok
<RichEd> spiekey: this one : http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/translations/language-pack-de
<RichEd> That's all I know about ...
<RichEd> hey there ogra :)
<nrdb> I have installed edubutu on a Virtual Machine I have another ready to boot how do I setup edubuntu to allow the client to boot?
<ogra_> nrdb, see the channel topic :)
<sbalneav> rodarvus, ogra: back from Wiesbaden?
<ogra> yep
<rodarvus> yup
<sbalneav> Cool!
<rodarvus> finally :)
<rodarvus> (long travel, etc)
<sbalneav> rodarvus: Probably what, around 22 hours?
<rodarvus> yes, not counting going from the hotel to airport, and from airport to my house
<sbalneav> Yeah, it's a long haul.
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<gruntu> Hello
<gruntu> hello
<pygi> highvoltage, may I grab you for a sec?
<pygi> hey gruntu 
<gruntu> I have a couple of questions
<gruntu> I was trying to configure the server with 1 network card. I modified dhcpd.conf but it fails. Are there other files I should be modifying?
<Kaeles> anyone know where i can find the minimim reqs for edubuntu?
<Kaeles> ooooh
<Kaeles> edubuntu is like ltsp?
<Kaeles> niiice
<pygi> Kaeles, "like ltsp"?
<Kaeles> but not quite what i was looking for, can you install it as a stand alone?
<Kaeles> well, i noticed that it IS ltsp
<Kaeles> :P
<Kaeles> or uses
<Kaeles> whatever the correct terminology is.
<pygi> yes, it can be standalone
<Kaeles> via the workstation installation?
<pygi> Kaeles, yup
<Kaeles> cool :D
<Kaeles> any clue what the minimum requirements of a system to run it stand-alone are?
<pygi> Kaeles, sec pls :)
<Kaeles> kk thanks
<pygi> Kaeles, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/StandAloneHardware
<Kaeles> ouch
<Kaeles> i might try xubuntu
<pygi> Kaeles, is it that bad? :P
<Kaeles> i am wanting to give away some computers with linux
<Kaeles> they are 233mhz 64mb ram
<Kaeles> so, i'll try xubuntu
<pygi> oki, if you wish
<Kaeles> do you think that edubuntu would work if i replaced the gnome/kde with xfce?
<Kaeles> I would prefer the edubuntu stuff on xubuntu, i'm trying to target families with kids, who can't afford computers.
<pygi> Kaeles, install xubuntu, then themes and games for edubuntu
<Kaeles> oh ok
<Kaeles> thanks :)
<Kaeles> i have about 25 extra comps that i've come across, so :P
<pygi> :P
<Kaeles> i'm keeping the faster ones for my cluster though
* Kaeles shrugs.
<Kaeles> Thanks for the help though
<Kaeles> :)
<Kaeles> have a good one
<bengoodger> if anyone in here is interested in doing an APT-based application for networked edubuntu application synching then please join me in #fles
<bengoodger> Seveas: can you program?
<pygi> bengoodger, don't poke random people :P
<bengoodger> pygi: he hadn't seen my notice
<sbalneav> bengoodger: I don't understand what it is you're wanting to do?
<sbalneav> Are you wanting to simply make sure the same app is installed on all machines?
<bengoodger> sbalneav: I amd a colleage have designed a program that will allow a single system administrator to control the applications and configurations that are present per computer group, in a large school (enterprise) setting
<jryer> Quick question: Why cannot I change my screen resolution? It is stuck at 640x480! Please help
<bengoodger> jryer: find your monitor's horizontal sync and vertical refresh rates
<bengoodger> jryer: then edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to match.
<bengoodger> then press CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE
<jryer> bengoodger, Where would I find hsync and v refresh rates?
<bengoodger> jryer: monitor manual, google, etc
<bengoodger> sbalneav: a PDF of the system's structure will shortly be on my site..
<sbalneav> bengoodger: Well, if you've already got the application, why not just package it up?
<bengoodger> sbalneav: it's been designed, not written
<jryer> bengoodger, And this will allow me to select more resolution options when I enter in System-Preferences-ScreenResolution?
<bengoodger> http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk/ben/network-diagram.pdf
<bengoodger> jryer: yes, it should select the best one for you as well
<bengoodger> jryer: good luck finding the values
<jryer> bengoodger, I will check into it today...thanks for the help!
<bengoodger> jryer: that's fine
<sbalneav> bengoodger: Ummm, little short on details, yes? :)
<bengoodger> sbalneav, well, it's rough
<sbalneav> You still haven't answered my question: are you talking about syncing apps?  Or are you trying to sync user profiles across machines?  If it's the second, why not simply set up an NFS server, and mount users home directories from there, so that no matter what machine they log onto, they have the same homedir?
<bengoodger> NFS is part of the network design
* sbalneav looks
<sbalneav> Nope, don
<sbalneav> don't see nfs anywhere on there :)
<bengoodger> that document is for the program, not the network design.
<bengoodger> the program deals with ensuring that all computers get the proper packages and configuration files
<bengoodger> yay proxy.
* bengoodger removes bur from passing obese cat
<sbalneav> Um, well that's easy: on your "master" machine, do a "dpkg --get-selections > selections.file"....
<sbalneav> Then, on all the rest of the machines: "dpkg --set-selections selections.file && aptitude dist-upgrade"
<sbalneav> that will ensure that all machines have the same apps.
<sbalneav> If you're wanting to make config files sync, just use rsync.
<sbalneav> I don't think you need a whole new program for that, just a couple of shell scripts.
<bengoodger> hmm
<bengoodger> what about the shiny MCSE-compatible gui that writes the profiles?
<sbalneav> writes WHAT profiles?
<sbalneav> user profiles?
<bengoodger> the profiles that define each computer group's packages
<sbalneav> So you're talking about what MENU items/icons each class of users see?
<bengoodger> no, what apt PACKAGE items each class of computers have
<ogra_> that sounds very much like a fai ripoff 
<bengoodger> what the hell is fai?
<sbalneav> bengoodger: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<sbalneav> This might be of interest to you.
<bengoodger> sbalneav: that's great.
<bengoodger> sbalneav: but I want to choose what software to actually install on different classes of machine
<bengoodger> so we don't want pcmcia on desktops, nor wireless drivers
<ogra_> bengoodger, fai is an ugly set of scripts thats used for mass deployment of workstations/servers whatever that also enables you to do maintenance afterwards through it
<bengoodger> and we might want a certain wireless driver on $TYPE_OF_LAPTOP but not on $OTHER_TYPE_OF_LAPTOP
<ogra_> its used in most bigger datacenters where they use debian based systems but its very ugly
<bengoodger> ogra_: I doubt from that description that it does what I want
<sbalneav> bengoodger: OK, so you're back to my other suggestion: simply coming up with a few standardized packaged selection lists, and then doing a --set-selections on them.  Theres no shiny gui for that, so If you want to write one, that'd be great.
<ogra_> well, the aintenance part sounds like what you describe ...
<ogra_> *maintenance
<bengoodger> sbalneav: is there a URL for this --set-selections feature?
<sbalneav> sure, "man dpkg" :)
<ogra_>  man dpkg ;)
<sbalneav> lol
<bengoodger> hrrrrm
<ogra_> snap
<pygi> ogra_, I talked libburn into producing usable dvd's, whee :)
<bengoodger> I wanted something comprehensible, but ok
<ogra_> pygi, congrats !
<sbalneav> or, google for "dpkg --get-selections"
<ogra_> bengoodger, usualy manpages are found via googel as well ;)
<pygi> ogra_, with cheating, and MD5 not matching, but all works :)
<pygi> thanks ^_^
<ogra_> so now make it network aware and sbalneav and i wil implement cd writing in ltsp ;)
<pygi> !!!!
<sbalneav> bengoodger: Here's one to get you started:
<pygi> network aware library!!!
<sbalneav> http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkgtools.en.html
<bengoodger> ok, Get list of package selections, and write it to stdout. isn't helpful
<ogra_> if i ever go that localdev stuff going ... sigh ...
<pygi> ogra_, I never done anything like that, so if you have pointers on how can I do that :)
<sbalneav> bengoodger: How isn't it helpful?
<ogra_> bengoodger, together with --set-selections it is ;)
<bengoodger> I meant the actual description
<bengoodger> how does the thing work?
<ogra_> it drops a list of all packages installed to stdout ...
<ogra_> yu can pipe that into a file
<sbalneav> and that's your "package profile"
<ogra_> --set-selections reads a list in thats format 
<ogra_> *that
<sbalneav> that's "loading" a package profile on another machine.
<bengoodger> ok
<ogra_> so you can: dpkg --get-selectios > /tmp/tmpfile
<bengoodger> hmm
<ogra_>  dpkg --set-selectios < /tmp/tmpfile
<bengoodger> so this solves about half of the problem
<ogra_> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade 
<ogra_> and you are done
<bengoodger> great
<ogra_> you only need a script with these three lines ;)
<bengoodger> ya
<sbalneav> Then, just use rsync to sync up any config file changes you want between machines.  Or, for that matter, just scp.
<bengoodger> so, what happens with the dist-upgrade?
<ogra_> the packages get installed
<sbalneav> --set-selections simply marks that you WANT those packages
<ogra_> right
<sbalneav> the dist-upgrade actually installs them
<bengoodger> the computer needs to automatically (sans-user) set itself to be identical to what I will still call the profile
<bengoodger> this means removing packages as well as installing them
<bengoodger> presumably apt can make it do that?
<ogra_> yes, with the above you can also remove stuff
<sbalneav> by "sans user", are you meaning "end user doesn't need to be involved", or "administrator doesn't need to be involved"
<bengoodger> sbalneav: "nobody needs to be involved"
<ogra_> i guess he wants a cron script or something
<sbalneav> because totally automating package management with no admin input is a really, REALLY bad idea.
<ogra_> right
<bengoodger> sbalneav, the admin writes the file
<bengoodger> but the clients need to be able to match themselves to it by themselves
<sbalneav> You can do it, but if something goes wrong for some reason, you can end up with a bunch of broken machines.
<ogra_> at least one human should be involved and check whats coming down the pipe
<bengoodger> without hand-holding
<gruntu> ogra I have a couple of questions when you have a minute
<bengoodger> if the system was going to use humans monitoring the whole thing, it defeats the entire object of having automated software-pushing
<bengoodger> it's meant to be so that the admin can write the file, tests it, publishes it, and the computer matches itself to it
<ogra_> gruntu, i never have time, so now is as good as any other moment ;) just ask away
<sbalneav> bengoodger: Well, you can certainly do it, if you want.
<bengoodger> sbalneav: good, because windows can do it
<sbalneav> bengoodger: heh, yeah sure.  My wife just spent a week 3 weeks ago fixing up a failed push that left 120 machines unbootable.  It's a bad idea there, and it's a bad idea in Linux too.  But, if you're willing to take the risk... you can do it.
<bengoodger> the plan is that the admin tests it extensively before pushing
<gruntu> thanks - I want to run the edubuntu server with one nic. I modified the dhcpd.conf but it's not working. I don't have any other dhcp running and this server was operating with 2 nics prior. I did run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<sbalneav> Admins tested it extensively on my wife's network as well.  Still failed on 5% of the machines.  But like I say, it's certainly doable.
<bengoodger> well, windows is a bit crap anyway..
<bengoodger> thanks for your help, now we just need someone to write the app that writes the profile and distributes the right one to each client
<ogra_> gruntu, can you paste the output of ifconfig -a  and the content of the dhcpd.conf file to a pastebot ? 
<ogra_> (/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf indeed)
<gruntu> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:0E:A6:BB:1E:B6
<gruntu>           inet addr:10.9.8.188  Bcast:10.9.8.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
<gruntu>           inet6 addr: fe80::20e:a6ff:febb:1eb6/64 Scope:Link
<gruntu>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
<gruntu>           RX packets:41764 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
<gruntu>           TX packets:30405 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
<gruntu>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
<gruntu>           RX bytes:44733943 (42.6 MiB)  TX bytes:12772161 (12.1 MiB)
<gruntu>           Interrupt:201 Base address:0xac00
<gruntu> lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
<gruntu>           inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
<gruntu>           inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
<gruntu>           UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
<gruntu>           RX packets:73 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
<gruntu>           TX packets:73 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
<gruntu>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
<gruntu>           RX bytes:5528 (5.3 KiB)  TX bytes:5528 (5.3 KiB)
<gruntu> Did i do that right before I post the other file?
<bengoodger> gruntu: PASTEBOT, dammit!
<gruntu> sorry
<bengoodger> that's ok
<ogra_> bengoodger, dont curse, the first one is for free 
<ogra_> ;)
<bengoodger> ogra_: "damn" is hardly a curse
<ogra_> gruntu, so now your dhcod.conf at pastebot will suffice ;)
<bengoodger> but meh
<ogra_> *dhcpd.conf
<sbalneav> !pastebot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ogra_> i think its pastebin ...
<ogra_> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<ogra_> ;)
<sbalneav> ubotu: pastebot is  a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<sbalneav> There, now we'll have it with both descriptions
<sbalneav> !pastebot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<sbalneav> hmm, must take a bit to add.
<ogra_> rodarvus, i have a weird phenmenon here ... if i enable local devices in ltsp (so ldm gets some different ssh paramters) i suddenly have no proper keyboard input in X ... i have to switch to tty1 and back to make it work
<ogra_> there is nothing in the ldm parameters that could cause it ... do you know of any bug in xkb that sounds like that ? 
<bengoodger> edubuntu-dynamic-menus has zero chance of being actually implemented in edgy
<bengoodger> featurefreeze is next week
<ogra_> bengoodger, lets see, LaserJock promised me patches this week
<rodarvus> ogra_, this is, hmm,.... unexpected
<rodarvus> do you pass different xorg.conf for both X sessions? (just curious)
<ogra_> ltsp generates the xorg.conf on boot
<ogra_> its already there if ldm starts
<ogra_> i first thought its because i have an usb keyboard and a usb disk attached ... but i see the same behavior on a ps2 keyboard
<highvoltage> pygi: i am here now
<sbalneav> ogra_: Oh, btw, I've been seeing some behavior where the text login is what pops up on the screen first, as opposed to the X in tty7
<ogra_> sbalneav, enable sound, that fixes it ;)
<sbalneav> I'm thinking we may want to do a "sleep 3 ; chvt 7" somewhere, to make sure we end up on the X screen
<Petaris> sbalneav: me too
<ogra_> there is a race condition somewhere 
<Petaris> Why would sound fix that?
<ogra_> i'll dig for it after feature freeze
<sbalneav> ah, ok, I'll try to pin it down as well.
<ogra_> because starting sound delays certain parts of the boot, that avoids the race
<Petaris> ogra_: just do a SOUND = Y in lts.conf?
<ogra_> sbalneav, have a look the the ltsp-client initscript ...
<ogra_> Petaris, SOUND=True
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra_> but yes
<ogra_> sbalneav, especially at the usplash stuff there
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu people
<sbalneav> Ah, usplashy :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock!!!!!!!!!!!
<ogra_> usplash is responsible for switching to tty1 if it doesnt get killed early enough or doesnt detect GDM
<Petaris> ogra_: ok
<ogra_> hey LaserJock 
<sbalneav> edubuntu-dynamic-menus?  Need any help?
<Petaris> Hi LaserJock 
<bengoodger_> I hate this power supply
<bengoodger_> the whole house goes off for no reason
<gruntu> ogra Bear with me here. I hope this is right: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21891
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I'll need some testing
<sbalneav> LaserJock: sbalneav@ltsp.org, mail me some goodies, and I'll hack with it tonight.
<ogra_> gruntu, looks fine to me 
<ogra_> what do you see in /var/log/daemon.log if you try to start the dhcp server ?
<cr3> highvoltage: got a minute, I'm trying to setup a fat client
<ogra_> rodarvus, got it ! "(WW) Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap"
<ogra_> rodarvus, is there a certain package holding the keymaps nowadays ? 
<ogra_> thats not pulled in by the xorg metapackage ? 
<bengoodger_> incidentally, edgy has a new set of them
<gruntu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21894
<ogra_> gruntu, the server is running fine ...
<ogra_> what exactly is the problem now ? 
<ogra_> apparetnly even a client recieved a kernel ...
<rodarvus> yes, xkb-data, I think
<rodarvus> it was something else, but got renamed (I think even before dapper was released, btw)
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> xorg is in its rdepends 
<ogra_> so it should be pulled in by ltsp-build-client
<ogra_> (which pulls in xorg)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> rodarvus, did the location in teh filesystem change somehow in a recent package ? even if i use the defaults i get that error ...
<bengoodger_> bring back the underscore
<bengoodger_> ooh, I have one now
<ogra> i suspect it has a new location that needs to be mounted rw or something
<rodarvus> ogra, I would need to check
<ogra> ah, tollef maintains it ...
<gruntu> The client start to load the graphic comes up then falls back to an error "Mount: RPC: Timeout" There is a lot more data. Do you want me to get it?
<ogra> gruntu, sounds like either your nfs server isnt running or the client mounts fro the wrong place
<ogra> try: grep ltsp /etc/exports
<ogra> that should return one line
<ogra> then check if nfs is running: ps ax|grep nfs
<ogra> that should return several lines
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Just popping in to find out how local devices and local printing in Edubuntu LTSP is coming along, and if I can set up a local printer yet....
<ogra> cberlo, local devices should be done today ... 
<ogra> i havent looked at printing at all 
<ogra> (and just ran into a very strange bug with localdev)
<gruntu> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<cberlo> ogra: Excellent, for the local devices.  Printing, okay, I'll see what I can work with.  apt-get upgrade to get local devs?
<ogra> gruntu, right 
<ogra> now check if the ps command bove shows nfsd running
<ogra> (dont paste it here, yes or no suffices)
<ogra> cberlo, i'll post instructions to the edubuntu lists once its safe for testing
<cberlo> Alright.  I'll watch for it.  Thanks.
<ogra> (you need an lts.conf and enable it there and its onyl installed on the client through ltsp-build-client, upgrading from edgy will need some amnual work)
<ogra> *manual
<gruntu> ogra yes it is running
<ogra> is there a line saying rootpath: in the error on the client ? and rootserver: ?
<ogra> find that one and check it oints to your server and the /opt/ltsp/i386 path
<ogra> *points
* ogra curses his keyboard
<gruntu> right before the error it says: "rootserver: 0.0.0.0 rootpath:
<ogra> rootpath has nothing ? 
<ogra> there should be a path behind the colon
<ogra> preferably /opt/ltsp/i386 :)
<gruntu> nothing, I'm reading the output from the client
<ogra> ok
<ogra> you pretty sure have a dhcp server running in your network 
<ogra> (a second one)
<gruntu> I have it connected to a edge firewall and I turned off the dhcp. I will check again
<cr3> I installed ubuntu, ltsp-server and ran ltsp-build-client --arch i386. Then, I configured dhcp and added this to the pxelinux.cf/default file: initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=192.168.1.210:/opt/ltsp/i386 ip=dhcp rw. Finally, I added /opt/ltsp/i386 to /etc/exports and my thin client boots as a fat client! The only problem is that I can login to the console but not gdm, suggestions?
<ogra> if you see such a thing like "rootserver: 0.0.0.0 rootpath:" you can be quite certain you didnt get an ip from a edubuntu dhcp server 
<ogra> cr3, thats the problem why we didnt implement it yet :) 
<ogra> cr3, GDM needs a fully setup pam environment and local users
<ogra> (in the client root)
<cr3> ogra: I did create a local user though, after chrooting on the host machine
<ogra> right, but / is a readonly filesystem on thin clients
<ogra> GDM surely needs some writeable files that are not covered by our tmpfs 
<ogra> and i can imagine pam as well ...
<gruntu> I am such a knucklehead. I turned it off last night and somehow it reverted back to default
<ogra> heh
<gruntu> It works now - sorry
<ogra> shit happens :)
<ogra> ext time you see rootserver: 0.0.0.0 you know what it is ;)
<cr3> ogra: is there anything reasonable I could do to get it working or can I expect it to require quite a bit of work?
<gruntu> k12ltsp allows for client side usb connections (like usb keys na usb cd-roms). Can I do this with the edubuntu clients
<ogra> cr3, it will surely require a bit of work ... and doing it with a passwd file in the chroot will get you in maintenance hell ... but if you want to go on and find out which dirs need to be writeable etc, have a look at /etc/default/ltsp-client-setup in the chroot 
<LaserJock> quick python question, I have a function that returns a 4-element tuple. I only want the 4th element (which is a list). what is the easiest way to get that 4th element?
<ogra> gruntu, not in dapper ... edgy (the currebt development version) has a half way working implementation
<ogra> LaserJock, something like function()[-1]  ?
<LaserJock> ah stink, I was just using the wrong index
<LaserJock> feel free to ignore me
<cbx33> ping ogra 
* highvoltage has found that gdm just needs /var/lib/gdm to be rw in the tmpfs to start up
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> howz you
<cberlo> Is there a simple way to integrate openMOSIX with Edubuntu, by any chance?
<cberlo> (or any parallel processing clustering solution)?
<highvoltage> hey cbx33
<highvoltage> sorry my connection keeps droping
<highvoltage> *dropping
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> that's ok
<cbx33> just thought I'd say hey
<cbx33> cberlo, I don;t know of a way
<cbx33> highvoltage, mind if I pm you?
<highvoltage> cbx33: not at all
<cr3> highvoltage: cheers, I added /var/lib/gdm to rw_dirs
<gruntu> ogra I will have to try that. thanks. I noticed that the downloads have been incredibly slow lately. Ubuntu must be getting very popular. Do you have any recommended mirrors?
<ogra> the nearest :)
<highvoltage> cr3: also make sure that's  it's owned by root:gdm
<ogra> cbx33, pong 
<cbx33> ogra, d'ya get my mail?
<ogra> yes
<cberlo> Wonder how hard it would be to build torrent support into apt....
<cbx33> ogra, :D
<cbx33> did you understand what I meant about the plugins?>
<cr3> highvoltage: weird, there's no gdm group in my chrooted /etc/group :(
<ogra> cbx33, yes, but lets keep such stuff for edgy+1
<cbx33> np
<ogra> we'Re running out of time 
<cbx33> so the implementation I have done is fine for now?
<ogra> yes, totally, i havent looked at the recent one yet 
<cbx33> oh you should
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> lots of new stuff
<cbx33> HEY LaserJock 
<ogra> (and wont have time today)
<LaserJock> I have a python question for you
<cbx33> ogra, that's cool
<cbx33> LaserJock, shoot
<cbx33> or in pm if you want
<ogra> probably later, but i have to go in 30 min and will be away most of the evening
<LaserJock> or anybody for that matter, is there an efficient way of doing a uniq on a list?
<ogra> and somehow cant find out why X is broken in ltsp
<cbx33> LaserJock, hmmm
<cbx33> lemme check something
<cbx33> LaserJock, there is a module called pstat
<cbx33> which you can download
<cbx33> it has a unique function in it
<cbx33> but I suppose the only real way is to build a list from that list
<cbx33> that's probably what that function does
<cbx33> might be quicker to rebuild the list as an associative array
<LaserJock> hmm, I see the python cookbook has one
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> then step through that, seeing as the keys should be unique
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<RichEd> !seen mhz
<cbx33> LaserJock, got a link ?
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 3d 16h 21m 6s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<LaserJock> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560/
<cr3> crap, and now my client is hanging on: Starting NBD client process: [4294685.695000]  nbd: registered device at major 43
<gruntu> One last thing; I have "sound = true" in my lts.conf but I still get no sound. With k12 I add soundblaster parameters. can I use these?
<cbx33> LaserJock, the last way I mentioned could be quicker than that
<ogra> rodarvus, the keyboard thing is not caused by localdev it seems ... i got it as well if i switch off everything localdev related
<cbx33> you wouldn't need to sort
<cbx33> which can take a while
<ogra> so i suspect its a general X thing rather
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, these are small lists
<cbx33> it'll still be the fastest way to do it I would think
<LaserJock> cbx33: basically I'm trying to get a list of users who are using the dynamic menus
<rodarvus> ogra, oh, now it makes more sense
<cbx33> LaserJock, wanna move to pm?
<LaserJock> sure
<ogra> rodarvus, well ...
<highvoltage> 4
<ogra> rodarvus, if it would work that would be cooler ... its very weird that i can trigger it by console switching
<ogra> its also not usplash caused ... i just booted without it
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i'll take that back 
<ogra> it apparently is usplash
<gruntu> ogra One last thing; I have "sound = true" in my lts.conf but I still get no sound. With k12 I add soundblaster parameters. can I use these?
<gruntu> for example: SMODULE_01 = sb io=0x220 irq=5 dma=1
<cr3> how can I get diagnosis from gdm which keeps returning me the username prompt after login? I tried creating /var/lib/gdm, 1770, root:gdm, and mounting it rw, but it still doesn't work
<rodarvus> ogra, do you have current usplash?
<rodarvus> I believe using vesa for usplash broke configuration for many people
<ogra> rodarvus, yes, i built the chroot some hours ago
<ogra> its the most recent stuff 
<rodarvus> hmm, I thought the current usplash (from a few days ago) had dropped vesa
<ogra> gruntu, try MODULE_01 instead 
<rodarvus> (it was added a few weeks ago)
<ogra> and put it in quotes
<ogra> gruntu, oh, and thats for a oss module ...
<ogra> you will need rather something like snd-sb (if that exists) instead of just sb
<ogra> rodarvus, well, i'd have expected video output to break, but certainly not the keyboard :)
<cbx33> ogra, did I tell you how I'd imlpemented pessulus
<ogra> nope
<ogra> at least not in the mail
<cbx33> pessulus, isn't great for what we want
<cbx33> but I've come up with a solution
<cbx33> I'll send you a mail to explain
<ogra> pessulus is perfect for what we want 
<ogra> did you read the howtos ? 
<cbx33> where ?
<ogra> you need to copy aroung a lot of stuff though
<cbx33> nah
<cbx33> I fixed it a different way
<cbx33> pessulus does global settings
<cbx33> unless the user doesn't have access right
<ogra> jdub pointed me to some howto, but i lost the url
<ogra> no
<cbx33> that's what the manual said
<ogra> pessulus does settings you copy over to the user
<cbx33> so I setup SCP to use sux as a wrapper to run it as the user you have selected
<cbx33> no copying involved
<ogra> and sux is in main ?
<cbx33> no :(
<ogra> is it safe and likely to get to main in an easy way ? 
<ogra> (without hacking it)
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<cbx33> I've not hacked it in anyway
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> but I'm not sure as to it's security
<cbx33> it just handles the X authority
<ogra> keep that for edgy+1 as well
<cbx33> so I can run anotehr users graphical app
<cbx33> in my own session
<ogra> wont work wih ssh
<ogra> *with
<cbx33> no?
<cbx33> shute
<ogra> no
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> I havn't done too well here have I
<cbx33> I'll find another solution
<cbx33> well it will work
<cbx33> if the admin user is logged into the machine properly
<cbx33> as in not a client
<ogra> no, the idea is great but that should be part of the next enhancement spes and be discussed in a BOF
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> we can do that on the next conf ;)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> did you want to drop that from the current spec
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> I was goign to setup another spec
<highvoltage> 4
<ogra> no, lest use pessulus for now ... i'll try to catch vuntz in -devel if i have time he will know where that howto is
<cbx33> I can do that if you want
<cbx33> I tried to catch him the other day
<ogra> he's not easy to get 
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> I know
<ogra> i know that
<cbx33> pygi told me
<ogra> jdub should know about it as well 
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> pessulus can write to a temp file that you copy over the users settings afaik 
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> or something along that lines
<cbx33> I didn't see anything like that in the command line help
<cbx33> or the docs
<cbx33> I'll take a closer look
<cbx33> as I say, I got round it by running it as the user it was supposed to be editing
<Burgwork> you can make pessulus do mandatory keys
<Burgwork> for full profiles you need to pull in sabayon
<Burgwork> which I recommend you do anyway
<ogra> we'll ship it ...
<ogra> but i somehow have no good feeling installing it by default
<ogra> it still feels very immature
<ogra> and we need to add all users to a default profile
<Burgwork> the issue is that there is no full time person working on either sabayon or pessulus
<ogra> right
<ogra> but pessulus is small 
<cbx33> hmm
<ogra> sabayon is a huge beast
<ogra> with many points of potential failure
* cbx33 has no experience of sabayon
<LaserJock> and probably has less development
<cbx33> is there a way to get my way to work ogra ?
<Burgwork> ogra, talk with whiprush. He uses it extensively
<ogra> cbx33, i have ot look at the code to tell that ...
<LaserJock> sabayon is done by red hat basically and when red hat says "We don't want any more people working on sabayon" it kinda puts a damper on things
<ogra> but i have to go now ... i'm already 12 mins late ...
<ogra> bbl
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> see ya tomorrow
<highvoltage> 
<highvoltage> 
<Burgwork> LaserJock, afaik, nobody has ever said that about sabayon
<Burgwork> they have merely not had anyone work on it
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> they pulled all the devs off it
<Burgwork> because it is 0.1 feature complete
<Burgwork> and rh is just as strapped for devs as we are
<LaserJock> sure, but what I'm saying is, unless people pick it up...
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> but you said that RH didn't want people working on it
<Burgwork> which is not true
<cbx33> ahhh.....
<LaserJock> well, semantics I guess
<cbx33> sabayon does exactly what I was doing really
<LaserJock> I meant they pulled the devs off of it
<LaserJock> I should have been clearer
<bengoodger> red hat doesn't help anyone, really
<bengoodger> they make their money from selling free software
<LaserJock> well, they put a lot of dev time into sabayon for which I'm grateful
<LaserJock> but they can't sustain that obviously
<bengoodger> yup
<cbx33> LaserJock, are you using sabayon?
<LaserJock> well, with the dynamic-menus I looked into it a fair bit
<LaserJock> but I have no need for it professionally
<LaserJock> it is quite nice
<LaserJock> from what I've seen
<LaserJock> it just needs a development community to show up
<LaserJock> and continue the work
<bengoodger> sorry, but dynamic-menus has no chance of being included in edgy
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> ok
<bengoodger> if launchpad is accurate, then it is only about 30% complete and going slowly
<bengoodger> and feature freeze is next week
<LaserJock> I should have an initial implementation today
<cbx33> LaserJock, has been working hard
<LaserJock> but it will look a little different than what the spec says
<bengoodger> laserjock, can you get it finished for next week?
<LaserJock> sure
<cbx33> I hope scp will make it too
<bengoodger> great
<bengoodger> scp?
<LaserJock> it'll be rough (dare I say, edgy) but it'll work
<cbx33> Student Control Panel
<bengoodger> I thought that was in dapper
<bengoodger> laserjock, great.
<LaserJock> the edgy menus won't be quite so nice, but it's a first step
<cbx33> bengoodger, it's being updated a lot for edgy
<bengoodger> aha.
<bengoodger> goood..
<bengoodger> I and a colleague are looking to contribute to edgy+1
<cbx33> ahh excellent
<cbx33> bengoodger, what's your background?
<bengoodger> cbx33, do you know RM?
<cbx33> RM?
<cbx33> as in Research MAchines?
<bengoodger> yeah.
<cbx33> where are you based?
<bengoodger> my background is hating them a lot.
<cbx33> bengoodger, hahahah
<bengoodger> cornwall
<cbx33> me too
<cbx33> I'm in hampshire
<bengoodger> so yeah, we've got this system designed that pushes software to all clients
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> linux based?
<bengoodger> APT based.
<bengoodger> we are hoping to get someone to write it for edgy
<cr3> in order to get a quick and dirty fat client working, I tried setting nfsroot=/ pointing to another system running ubuntu, but I get a bunch of errors about: INIT: cannot execute "/sbin/getty"
<bengoodger> and then obviously if it's good enough we shall contribute it to edgy+1
<cbx33> bengoodger, good good
<cbx33> would be good for the fat client stuff
<bengoodger> but the company is based on providing preconfigured edubuntu-based school computers and edubuntu configuration
<cbx33> bengoodger, what company is this
<cbx33> if you don't mind my asking?
<bengoodger> it's not technically in existance at this point
<cbx33> ahh heheh
<bengoodger> FLES, Free/Libre Educational Services..
<cbx33> bengoodger, nice
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> you'll be interested in some of the work going on soon
<bengoodger> so yeah, we'll be selling edubuntu-running computers with dumbed-down RM-style network management systems
<cbx33> there are people....myself included.....working on literature
<cbx33> leaflets booklets etc
<bengoodger> well, I can write doco for eight-year-olds..
<bengoodger> unfortunately we've nobody to write it for us
<bengoodger> (the program)
<cbx33> bengoodger, what would it do?
<cbx33> I mean what do you have so far?
<bengoodger> we've a design for how it'd work, so far.
<bengoodger> and a couple of UI mockups
<cbx33> what do you mean for the network management system
<cbx33> ah cvool
<bengoodger> well, the first thing it'd do would be the deb-pushing
<cbx33> bengoodger, are you planning to install LTSP server?
<bengoodger> nope, NFS/LDAP fat clients
<bengoodger> the admin uses his nice GTK+ interface to choose an application to install on a group of machines
<cbx33> easy :p
<cbx33> you could write that in a few days :p
<bengoodger> I couldn't..
<bengoodger> this interface then writes a file of some sort whose name I've forgotten
<cbx33> well, 
<bengoodger> the client requests a file, the server sends it the appropriate file ("profile") based on what group the machine is a member of
<cbx33> i see
<bengoodger> the client then dpkg --app-list or somethings the file and apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade is run
<cbx33> yeh
<bengoodger> all transparently to the user and easily for the MSCE running it
<cbx33> fairly simple system
<bengoodger> fairly simple, yes.
<cbx33> have you looked aroudn to mke sure no one has already done it?
<bengoodger> yeah, we did find one thing
<bengoodger> it was about ten years old, extremely dirty and didn't do what we wanted it to
<Burgwork> bengoodger, you should see the implementation of NWU that the brazillian guy is working for
<cbx33> oh
<Burgwork> s/for/on
<bengoodger> 80% of the original code was going to be the thing that invokes APT to resolve any differences between the client and its profile, but it turns out that's done by APT anyway
<bengoodger> so it should be nice and easy
<Burgwork> you could do it fairly easily with meta packages
<Burgwork> just push something new into the meta package, update and bam
<bengoodger> burgwork, it wouldn't work
<cbx33> bengoodger, why?
<bengoodger> if you remove something from a meta package it won't remove it from the system
<Burgwork> right
<cbx33> ah yes
<bengoodger> besides which, we wanted to use the real ubuntu
<bengoodger> proxy is there for speed, but that's it as far as fiddling with the APT server goes
<cbx33> yeh
<bengoodger> now, the frontend handles the following:
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates
<Burgwork> http://cetico.org/nwu
<Burgwork> doesn't do what you want, but is very similar
<bengoodger> warnings from the system, group management, news from us, update notification, help
<Burgwork> be nice to combine your idea and that into a general "network software manager"
<cbx33> Burgwork, ++
<bengoodger> hmm
<cbx33> bengoodger, might be worth contacting them
<bengoodger> it might
<Burgwork> they are also working on authenticating the communication, which is also key
<cbx33> definitely
<Burgwork> ie: the client only takes software from an authenticated server
<bengoodger> burgwork, authentication is integral to this system
<bengoodger> as we simply use APT as normal.
<cbx33> it can't really work without it
<bengoodger> our plan was to have each computer as a member of a group
<bengoodger> the laptop in room A24, for instance, would be a member of Laptops/Art
<bengoodger> and so each group has a profile of packages and configuration files installed on it
<cbx33> sounds like a good idea
<bengoodger> ya
<cbx33> I'd talk to NWU they may be interested in putting that into practice
<bengoodger> true
<Burgwork> you guys overlap about 75%
<cbx33> yeh
<bengoodger> can we also combine LDAP with dynamic menus, that'd be cool
<bengoodger> we could add to this frontend to do that too
<cbx33> tal to LaserJock 
<cbx33> maybe an edgy+1 idea
<bengoodger> I was hoping he/she'd still be here
<bengoodger> he is
<LaserJock> who?
<bengoodger> you
<LaserJock> wha?
<Burgwork> bengoodger, sabayon can talk to ldap
<LaserJock> ;-)
<mhz> hi all
<bengoodger> LaserJock: I want to link dynamic-menus and LDAP
<LaserJock> sorry, trying to finish up the menu updater :-)
<mhz> ping RichEd 
<cbx33> mhz, RichEd was looking for you earlier
<LaserJock> bengoodger: interesting
<LaserJock> I really don't know much about LDAP, what would that look like?
<bengoodger> I dunno
<mhz> cbx33: hi
<mhz> cbx33: meaning he left?
<cbx33> well, i dunno
<bengoodger> just linking LDAP to dynamic-menus as well as etc/passwd
<LaserJock> well, I would think it would be surely doable
<Burgwork> sabayon does it by having a full .zip with their profile and an ldap key pointing at that .zip file
<bengoodger> hm
<LaserJock> but probably edgy+1 unless somebody has some time
<Burgwork> bengoodger, LaserJock; you lot really need to talk to whiprush (Jorge Castro), becuase he manages Ubuntu using LDAP, etc.
<bengoodger> well, if you can get it done so it works on edgy after edgy is released we can incorporate it into the fles repos
<bengoodger> along with this frontend program
<LaserJock> well, sabayon won't work for dynamic-menus unless Jorge has done some amazing hacking to sabayon
<Burgwork> no, I realize that
<cbx33> oh I foudn a strange bug in login
<cbx33> hang on I'll try to replicate again
<Burgwork> but rather than talk endlessly, we shoudl talk with someone who is already using this in real life
<LaserJock> oh yeah, sure
<LaserJock> I wish I had had a chance at Ubucon
<Burgwork> yep
<pygi> highvoltage, poke?
<bengoodger> LaserJock: hm
<bengoodger> please join me on #fles
<cbx33> bbl
<mhz> Burgwork: still there?
<Burgwork> mhz, always and forever
<mhz> Burgwork: hehehehe, cool
<mhz> Burgwork: I chated a few mins ago with mruiz (aka Miguel A. Ruiz) from Chile
<Burgwork> cool
<mhz> about UWN being issued in spanish
<Burgwork> right
<mhz> however, despite I really agree with him
<mhz> I feel -CL people are still not mature enough on taking responsibilities
<mhz> there are lots of good intentions
<mhz> but we are the same old 5 to 7 guys doing as much as we can
<mhz> and from the rest of spanish speakers...
<mhz> well, mybe
<Burgwork> yep
<bengoodger> hooray for spain.
<Burgwork> the issue mostly is that I need to finish the UWN before saturday night
<bengoodger> hotter than england, but seems less hot.
<mhz> bengoodger: :)
<mhz> Burgwork: yup
<bengoodger> Burgwork: well, if you can do so that'll be bonega, as esperantists say
<mhz> Burgwork: so, once we are 100% sure we'll have enough mature and responsible, reliable hands, we could say we are ready tojump in and make it happen in 20 hours or less
<bengoodger> hooray
<Burgwork> right
<bengoodger> is november a reasonable deadline for 150 hours' programming by a volunteer?
<Burgwork> so when should I aim to finish UWN this week for this week to happen?
<Burgwork> yes
<bengoodger> okie-doke
<bengoodger> apparently chris works better on a deadline, so that should be ok
<mhz> Burgwork: talking ot me?
<Burgwork> yes
<mhz> Burgwork: I'll chat with mruiz again today or tomorrow this time. If he really is sure he, at least himself, can take it all and translate it, then we're ok. Me knows there are 5 people translating stuff for Edubuntu into spanish right now
<Burgwork> right
<mhz> Burgwork: so, I can say, you'll get an email or IRC confirmation tomorrow this time
<Burgwork> sounds good
* mhz has to still finish his Edubuntu Handbook tasks
<mhz> Burgwork: if a Moin version/macro  could actually count and sum every single page a user has contributed to, would that mean Karma will consider wiki contribs?
<Burgwork> mhz, suggest it to the LP guys
<mhz> Burgwork: but will he get a newer version of Moin? (current available is 1.5.4)
<mhz> and we are using 1.3.5
<sbartleylinux> Do I understand correctly that Ubuntu LTSP uses ldm for the client?  If so, is there a way to disable the Hibernate button from appearing when the client clicks System/Quit?
<Burgwork> sbalneav, no idea
<mhz> sbartleylinux: yup, instead of GDM
<Burgwork> mhz, would love to. Ask mkde
<sbalneav> sbartleylinux: uninstall the gnome-power-manager
<pygi> sbalneav, there is
<pygi> sbartleylinux, there is a way
<pygi> sbartleylinux, use upstream logout dialog
<sbartleylinux> sbalneav: wont I lose ups monitoring then?
<sbartleylinux> pygi: is there document on where to get and how to do so?
<sbalneav> sbartleylinux: I'd use apcd or something for that myself.  You could also set a gconf variable for all your users.
<sbalneav> I know that ogra's got a fix for it in edgy.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, gconf, I forgot exact location of key
<sbalneav> I think, in gconf-editor, you'd go to apps->gnome-power-manager-> can_hibernate, and click it off.
<sbalneav> yes, that fixes it.
<sbartleylinux> did that but it is still appearing.  
<sbalneav> Not for me it isn't.
<sbartleylinux> thought it was due to ldm vs. gdm and maybe ldm was ignoring that conf.
<sbartleylinux> hm.
<sbalneav> That turned it off for me.
<sbalneav> !pastebot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<sbalneav> Heading home for the day.  Be on tonight.
<sbartleylinux> pygi: is it /schemas/apps/panel/global/upstream_session?
<pygi> sbartleylinux, might be
<sbartleylinux> pygi: yep. /apps/panel/global/upstream_session did it.  thx.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, yw :)
* pygi does a happy dance, eject now works :)
<cbx33> ping rodarvus 
<cbx33> ping ogra_ 
<crimsun> cbx33: Rodrigo is out with his wife & daughter presently.
<cbx33> ah...ok
<mhz_off> bytes yoall
<cbx33> crimsun, I just sent you a pm
<cbx33> would appreciate your input
<LaserJock> cbx33: hehe
<LaserJock> you better watch out, people are going to start calling you "closed-source pete" 'cause you do everything in a PM ;-)
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> who who?
<cbx33> I just don't wanna flood everyone else with my mindless prattle
<LaserJock> hehe
#edubuntu 2006-08-29
<bddebian> Howdy
<Burgwork> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya Burgwork
<LaserJock> hi, thanks
<LaserJock> whiprush: originally, as you saw, I was going to implement that spec via sabayon profiles
<whiprush> I don't think you can do menu stuff with sabayon
<LaserJock> well, you can, if you have 1 profiles per user
<LaserJock> but the dynamic aspect of the menus comes from students being able to be in multiple groups and those groups changing
<LaserJock> so currently I'm implementing my own thing
<whiprush> how will that work?
<LaserJock> where when a user logs in they get shuffled off to their own menu file
<LaserJock> basically each dynamic menu user gets an application.menu file in /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/user/
<LaserJock> and at login I have an Xsession.d script that sets XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to that directory
<LaserJock> I think it will work ok
<whiprush> yeah that'll work
<LaserJock> but my biggest problem is that the group .menu files don't have an easy way of being editied
<LaserJock> so we are going to ship predefined groups and if the admin wants to change them they have to do it manually
<LaserJock> which his less than idea for sure in Edubuntu
<LaserJock> that's what was nice about sabayon
<LaserJock> it is very easy to create a profile
<whiprush> yeah, it's pretty innovative
<LaserJock> whiprush: how big of a deployment do you use it on?
<whiprush> ~2800 users
<whiprush> only 2 labs though
<LaserJock> wow, lots of users
<LaserJock> how many profiles?
<whiprush> 3. Student, Staff, Faculty
<whiprush> At first I had this elaborate setup, but that got annoying real quick
<LaserJock> ah yeah, that's at Oakland?
<whiprush> now it's simple
<whiprush> yeah
<LaserJock> what kind of things do you "lock down"?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> At home, so if you'd like to send anything to me for testing/development, let me know.
<whiprush> LaserJock: panels only, the rest I leave alone.
<sbalneav> Hey whippy
<whiprush> that way they can't delete the browser icon, etc.
<whiprush> hi scott
<LaserJock> whiprush: what about pessulus?
<sbalneav> What's shakin'?
<whiprush> LaserJock: by the time pessulus was out I had already done most of the lockdown, I'm more in maintenance mode right now.
<LaserJock> sure, makes sense
<whiprush> sbalneav: nothing, discussing desktop lockdown stuff
<whiprush> LaserJock: oh, I lockdown the wallpaper too, so they can't set a huge picture on a thin client.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> sbalneav: here is my first attempt at "Python for non-scientists" ;-)
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21929
<LaserJock> almost done
<sbalneav> whiprush: You big meanie.  Why can't someone use a 10240 x 7680 super high resolution TIFF for a background?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hmm, interesting use of the try: except: block.  That all there is, and does this replace the shell script you sent me the other day?
<LaserJock> no, it's in addition too
<sbalneav> How does it get run?
<LaserJock> well, yah know. I'm no programmer so I'm open to suggestiongs
<LaserJock> command line or from the script
<sbalneav> No, it's fine, syntactically, it's absolutely correct.  I've just never seen it used quite like that, but hey: it works!
<sbalneav> So, how does one create the menu profiles?
<LaserJock> well, that's why I wanted to have "real" programmers check my scripts over
<LaserJock> they should be fast
<LaserJock> as they are run at login
<LaserJock> sbalneav: by hand :-)
<sbalneav> Lemme go poke my nose into the spec, see if I can't give you a bit of a hand...
<nixternal> LaserJock: my "Applications" menu flashes after installing Edgy, when i goto click on it and activate it...further reading i found out if i 'killall -q gam_server' stops that from occuring...any ideas if this is a bug with the 'latest release' or???
<nixternal> take it easy, im not a gnome guy ;)
<sbalneav> nixternal: hahaha
<sbalneav> I got bitten by that one.
<LaserJock> nixternal: go into /etc/xdg/menus/
<sbalneav> It's a symlink pointing to nowhere
<LaserJock> nixternal: and rm the symlink
<sbalneav> yep
<LaserJock> for the debian menu
<nixternal> i do however, think that edubuntu has the hottest default look of any os i have tried in my 20+ years of computer use
<nixternal> thank you sir!
<LaserJock> but of course it's the hottest ;-)
<sbalneav> Gartoon + red borders + bluegreen wallpaper = WIN!
<nixternal> i love the wp definitely..the icons rock though..i like them
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, let me quickly put a tarball together of what I've got and how it works and I'll send it to you
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Super Duper Pooper Scoopers!
<sbalneav> I've got a ton of stuff done today on some of the localdev stuff, so I'll give you a hand for a bit seeing as how rodarvus seems to have the dhcpd autoconfig spec under control.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what's the email addy?
<sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
<sbalneav> I need to beg for an ubuntu one, one of these days :)
<LaserJock> think that can be arranged
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> you buttered up the Edubuntu Council pretty well in Paris
<sbalneav> Having seen me, you can tell I'm no stranger to butter.
<LaserJock> hahaha
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, sent. I have to go now. See you tomorrow
<sbalneav> Okeydokey, I'll poke it a bit tonight.
<sbalneav> Send you results of my testing tomorrow.
<LaserJock> whiprush: thanks for the discussion
<LaserJock> sbalneav: excellent
<LaserJock> ;-)
<freddie42> just wondering, does edubuntu have an equivalent to synchroneyes?
<madar> hello I just installed edubuntu on a machine for my niece, very nice
<madar> however I can't get a sceen resolution above 800x600
<madar> I added mode lines for 1024x768 to the xorg.conf but it still doesn't appear as an option in the gui screen resolution tool
<madar> any ideas?
<madar> using vesa driver for onboard 2mb video
<madar> will display 1024x768 on live knoppix type disks
<sbalneav> madar: What type of chipset is it?
<sbalneav> You'd be better off not using the vesa driver.
<madar> hello sbalneav it's reporting as an ati 3d IIc agp but it's onboard from what I can tell
<madar> old dell P2 box
<madar> DSL will give me nice 1280x1024 using xvesa
<madar> I've added mode lines for higher than 800x600 but they don't show up 
<madar> edubuntu defaults to using a driver listed as "ati"
<sbalneav> madar: well, that would be the default driver for that card.
<madar> hmm well I'd prefer a better screen resolution and using a framebuffer
<madar> is that possible?
<madar> I added modelines for 1024x768 but it doesn't show up in the gui "screen resolution" tool as an option
<madar> what does that tool read from that it won't even offer my modeline as an option?
<sbalneav> What kind of monitor do you have?
<sbalneav> And if you could paste your xorg.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<madar> I appreciate the help but I have to run for a while I'll be back on in an hour or so if you're still here
<madar> thanks sbalneav
<sbalneav> I'll be around
<madar> cheers
<supernova> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<supernova> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21938
<supernova> hello sbalneav, I was madar before I'm supernova over hear on the edubuntu box
<supernova> that's my xorg.conf file
<supernova> over "here" I mean ;)
<sbalneav> I would expect that the dpms option is probably what's mucking you up.
<sbalneav> Either the card isn't passing through the right dpms options, or
<sbalneav> the monitor itself isn't reporting them correctly.
<sbalneav> hold on, let me see if I can suggest something.
<supernova> what would you recommend
<supernova> comment it out
<sbalneav> no, that wont work :)
<madar> so I see :)
<sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21939
<sbalneav> Replace the monitor section with that, see if it helps any better
<sbalneav> It specifies a good horiz + vertical sync range, it's probably detecting one too low.
<sbalneav> make sure to make a backup copy first
<sbalneav> cp xorg.conf xorg.pre-fiddling
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<LaserJock> hell
<LaserJock> o
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy
<sbalneav> Hey laserjock
<sbalneav> I'm hacking as we speak.
<LaserJock> ah cool
<LaserJock> how does it look?
<sbalneav> Umm, how were you planning on creating /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/users/<user>/application.menu?
<sbalneav> /usr/share<...>'s all owned by root :(
<LaserJock> that's done by update_menus
<sbalneav> which, your update menus?
<sbalneav> edubuntu-update-menus you mean?
<LaserJock> update_menu function in edubuntu-update-menus
<sbalneav> right, problem is, in /etc/X11/Xsession.d, you're not running as root
<sbalneav> You're running as the user
<LaserJock> oh, that's right
<sbalneav> so creating a file in a root-owned directory's going to cause a problem.
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> No worries.
<LaserJock> I was thinking of the admin running it manually
<LaserJock> but you're right
<sbalneav> I'm hacking it so that the menu's created in ${HOME}/.edubuntu-menus/application.menu
<LaserJock> I don't think ogra's going to like that
<LaserJock> :/
<LaserJock> he wants it out of ~/ but maybe we can discuss that
<sbalneav> Hmmm, unless he wants it to be totally an admin function.  If that's the case, it's fine then, other than the fact that there's no point in trying to run it in 25....
<sbalneav> because the user won't be able to update it anyway.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we would have to seperate out using from updating
<sbalneav> Right.
<LaserJock> I had hoped to make it all automatic
<sbalneav> The 25... rc script would just check for the existance of the menu, and if it's there, then set the environment variable.
<sbalneav> the update would have to be run by root to create the user menus.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so maybe a cron job or something
<sbalneav> Which, like I say, is fine, if that's what's intended.
<sbalneav> Absolutely
<LaserJock> well, that would sort of simplify things
<LaserJock> I guess I need to think like an admin ;-)
<sbalneav> hmmm
<sbalneav> hmmmmm
<sbalneav> hmmmmmmmm
<LaserJock> I was sort of thinking it was important to be able to immediatly have the menu active
<LaserJock> as soon as the user was added to the group
* sbalneav 's brain is forming an idea
* LaserJock tries to take a peak into Scotty's brain
<sbalneav> Not sure if this will work.
<LaserJock> "hello, anybody home?"
<sbalneav> Here's the core of the idea
<sbalneav> What if you simply made one BIG merged file, with all the possible group menus in it.
<sbalneav> Pointed everyone at that.
<sbalneav> then, the included menu files...
<sbalneav> were chmod 640, with the group ownership the same as the group name...
<sbalneav> so...
<sbalneav> chem.menu is owned root, chem, mode 640
<sbalneav> Anyone in the chem group will be able to read it.
<sbalneav> anyone NOT in the chem group, wont.
<sbalneav> The question is, will the menu system quietly not include the ones you don't have read access to?
<sbalneav> Or, will it barf all over the place because you're including a file you can't read.
<LaserJock> well, the bigger question is:
<LaserJock> what if you belong to more than one group
<LaserJock> I think it will jut pick the first applications.menu it finds
<sbalneav> Thats easy, then you get a merged menu.  (i think).
<sbalneav> Lets test this little theory, shall we? :)
<LaserJock> I tested it before
<sbalneav> Oh, did you?
<LaserJock> and it just picked up the first one
<LaserJock> but I didn't test it the same way
<LaserJock> I say try it
<sbalneav> OK, gimme 5 minutes to test my insane theory
<LaserJock> np, I'm eyeing a wild fire that has started near my house :/
<sbalneav> ack!
<sbalneav> thats no good
<sbalneav> Lightning strike?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Stop playing with those lasers! ;-P
<LaserJock> sbalneav: not sure
<LaserJock> but it's probably ~1 mile or so away but the breeze is in this direction
<bddebian> Ugh
<LaserJock> bddebian: "It wasn't me, honest" ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah, this is the closest fire I've seen since moving here
<LaserJock> and we have a lot of fires here
<aspekt> I have a newbie question if anyone has time...?
<LaserJock> aspekt: just put it out there
<LaserJock> :-)
<aspekt> I am running ubuntu but would like my children to have access to edubuntu - is there a script or similar to upgrade [sidegrade]  to edubuntu?
<LaserJock> you could install edubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> it would pull in the dependecies so that it would look like edubuntu
<LaserJock> but if there are only a couple apps in particular that they would be interested in you might be better of just installing them directly
<aspekt> ah OK and that will keep the underlying stuff I already have?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it shouldn't replace anything
<aspekt> cool - thats great. thanks
<LaserJock> just look over what it wants to do before you hit the "apply" button
<LaserJock> or whatever
<aspekt> OK - i will do. [now that I have the gui back after the *update*] 
<LaserJock> heh
<aspekt> where are the fires? not in greece?
<LaserJock> no, US
<aspekt> oh OK
<LaserJock> Reno, Nevada to be more accurate
<aspekt> best of luck then
<LaserJock> it'd have to cross a lot of water to get to greece
<LaserJock> :-)
<aspekt> they have some bad ones there of their own
<LaserJock> not fun
<aspekt> yeah - I have just moved to Sydney and I am not looking forward to the summer fires here
<LaserJock> sbalneav: did it work? or did you fry your machine?
<sbalneav> heh, still hacking.  Not doing what I'm wanting.
<sbalneav> How's the fire?
<sbalneav> bail if it gets too close.
<sbalneav> We need you.
<LaserJock> I'll be hacking to the end!
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> really, I think probably a cron job and the ability for the sysadmin to run a sudo edubuntu-menus-update would be pretty good
<sbalneav> More than likely.
<sbalneav> I just want to exhaust this posibility, because it will get both what you want (instant update) and what ogra wants (no nothing in user home dirs)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, would it be a really big no no to make the user's /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/users/ dir writable for them?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> yeah?
<sbalneav> ok, how about this:
<sbalneav> so...
<sbalneav> hold on, lemme get a terminal into the other box...
<sbalneav> Umm, join me in #xdg-menu
<RichEd> hello
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hi Burgundavia ... how's the land of maple leaves ... autumn setting in ?
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> August is still end of summer
<RichEd> oh ... 'cos cape town is springing ... mulberries already ripening on the trees
<RichEd> quick question for you that Will and I were pondering ... in a multi-seat desktop solution, how does a "software solution work" ... how do you get the extra monitors & keyboard & mice running off the single CPU ... what are we missing in the picture ?
<Burgundavia> we use virtualized X
<RichEd> What's your site url again ? I better read up.
<Burgundavia> userful.com
<Burgundavia> desktop-multiplier is part of multiverse in dapper
* RichEd will ready up on those ...
<RichEd> hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi RichEd 
<Burgundavia> hye LaserJock
* highvoltage LASERSHOCK
<LaserJock> hehe
<RichEd> hello highvoltage : got schalk's email address for me ? minutes going out this morning.
<highvoltage> hi RichEd 
<highvoltage> sure, schalk@inkululeko.co.za
<highvoltage> RichEd: he missed his flight on Friday :)
<RichEd> Thanks & Oops ... not my fault I hope ? Did he get manage to get off later on Friday ?
<highvoltage> no, not your fault. yes he got a later one at 4
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: pygi is still trying to get a hold of you
<Burgundavia> and hello
<highvoltage> hello Burgundavia :)
<highvoltage> I ponged him last night, but it seems I missed him again, which is strange, since we're in the same timezone
<highvoltage> i suppose e-mail works better for certain things
<Burgundavia> indeed
<cbx33> mornin all
<highvoltage> morning cbx33 
<highvoltage> cbx33: got my messages last night?
<cbx33> highvoltage: possibly not?
<cbx33> I got one about you being connected for a whole minute?
<highvoltage> heh, yes, that was the last message
<Burgundavia> vote: http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnome-games/survey.html
<cbx33> Mornin RichEd 
<RichEd> hi cbx33 ... how was the bank holiday ?
<cbx33> yeh was great
<cbx33> just blogging about it now
<cbx33> Went to the Southsea kite festival :D
* cbx33 is into sports kites
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/~cbx33co/?q=node/40
<cbx33> I got my new kite on Sunday - and Ultra Light version, that's the purple one....
<cbx33> I do the guys website who makes them, so he gives me a kite every now and then, bearing in mind they cost about 300 each hehehehehe
<RichEd> :) fair exchange
<cbx33> indeed, we totalled up the cost of his site
<cbx33> 5,000
<cbx33> so far
<highvoltage> cbx33: nice blog, you should get it on ubuntu planet
<cbx33> highvoltage: I tried
<cbx33> nobody replied
<highvoltage> did you e-mail jeff or the RT?
<cbx33> jdub
<highvoltage> it's best to e-mail rt for that
<highvoltage> they'll sort it out quickly
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cbx33> you got a mail address?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: adding to planet is now a thing you can do yourself
<Burgundavia> there is a page on the wiki
<cbx33> oh cool
<cbx33> ok I'll check that out
<cbx33> you don't happen to have a link do you?
<highvoltage> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
<cbx33> ool
<cbx33> +c
<cbx33> I'll have to do that at home
<cbx33> I don't have sftp access here
<cbx33> how OT can my blog be?
<cbx33> should I only send through linux stuff
<cbx33> as you can see I blog about other rubbish too
<Burgundavia> mine is mostly offtopic but mostly about LInux
<Burgundavia> planet ubuntu is about people, not neccesarily ubuntu
<highvoltage> cbx33: afaik you can blog about whatever you want
<highvoltage> cbx33: but personally i would urge you not to blog about cats
<cbx33> cats?
<cbx33> why not cats?
<highvoltage> there are too many cat blogs already :)
<cbx33> eheheh
<cbx33> well it won't be about cats
<cbx33> kites + linux
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: but I *love* cute overload!
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: :)
* cbx33 is hoping to get a papillion dog soon :p
<cbx33> Lisa really really wants one
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<RichEd> cbx33: already a window open ... go for it
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> mornin pygi 
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<ogra> moin
<cbx33> ogra: pessulus does have the ability to have modules
<cbx33> I'm wondering if we could write a module to achieve what we need
<cbx33> also http://www.vuntz.net/journal/2006/03/09/364-do-you-want-to-be-a-cool-gnome-contributor
<cbx33> seems vuntz is looking for a maintainer for pessulus
<cbx33> well a co-maintainer
<ogra> and ? any abitions on your side ? :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I don;t think I'd be a suitable choice really would I
<cbx33> I'm not that good at stuff yet
<cbx33> including constructing large and interesting sentences
<ogra> learning by doing ;)
<ogra> (to answer with a large and intresting sentence :P)
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> If I can get hold of vuntz I'll ask what needs to be done
<scythe> hi
<cbx33> the is a version of pessulus integrated into sabayon
<cbx33> I didn't know that
<cbx33> they now what to break it out 
<cbx33> so it's seperate
<cbx33> and a standalone package
<ogra> nice
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> hi scythe 
<cbx33> would be great if it did the things we need
<cbx33> I looked for docs on the modules in pessulus
<cbx33> but can't find any
<cbx33> I wonder if it's likely to be ready for edgy?
<ogra> well, it did what i wanted it to do when i tested it ... but only for the current user
<cbx33> ogra: yes
<cbx33> that user presumably didn't have the rights to change teh global settings?
<ogra> then jdub told me there is a doc how to use that users profile systemwide or for certain users
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> we'll probably need to create a SCP dummy user
<cbx33> but then that means restricting that user
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> which you would have to loginto to change the pessulus options
<cbx33> ??
<ogra> make all changes for hi and copy them to the selected users
<ogra> *him
<ogra> you can just su to him
<cbx33> not the best solution
<cbx33> yeh i suppose
<cbx33> but then
<cbx33> that's what I was doing with sux
<cbx33> but graphically
<ogra> hmm, we're running on a ltsp server ...
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> is there no way to get it to work?
<cbx33> have you tried it?
<ogra> ssh -X scp-user@localhost pessulus 
<ogra> ;)
<cbx33> possible
<cbx33> but you'd need to put in a password
<ogra> no
<cbx33> right?
<cbx33> oh?
<ogra> you need to have the key 
<cbx33> why not?
<cbx33> ahhhh !!!1
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> you can do key based auth
<cbx33> that's a good idea
<scythe> ogra: ah you run a ltsp server? do you have one account for all clients?
<cbx33> scythe: no
<cbx33> well i don;t
<ogra> scythe, nope
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> so, each user would have a key that allowed the admin to access
<cbx33> what if they delete the key? or would we permission it so they couldn't
<scythe> ogra,cbx33: I set up a ltsp server for a primary school. best would be, if there is no login for the clients. I created one account and locked panel and things like that. but the background can still be changed.
<scythe> but this solution is not so perfekt for saving and deleting files :/
<ogra> right
<ogra> also firefox wont be happy about it
<cbx33> ogra: can I ask you, how much SCP time will you have?
<ogra> and openoffice
<scythe> orga: yes
<cbx33> ogra: indeed ++
<ogra> cbx33, i cant tell yet ... depends how much time ldm and the dhcpd autoconf installer take
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm just thinking how much longer we have
<scythe> orga: do you have a solution? I think the only way is an extra account for each client. but loging in with username and password is dificult for 1st,2nd mayby 3rd class
<cbx33> scythe: have a simple password
<ogra> cbx33, well, it needs to move to main ... that will take one or two days ... that needs to happen before sept 7th
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> basically do you want me to fix pessulus?
<cbx33> if we can?
<ogra> scythe, thats currently the best solution 
<cbx33> or start polishing?
<ogra> just tape username and password on the monitor ? 
<ogra> there is a debian guy working on a patch that enables autologin with sshkeys on a per client base  ...
<ogra> but thats unlikely to be ready before edgy+1
<scythe> cbx33, ogra: is there a way to create useraccounts with no password?
<ogra> hmm, i'm not sure we block it ... 
<ogra> but i never tried to e honest
<scythe> and can I lock the changing of backgrounds? everything else, I think, is locked by pessulus and sabayon.
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> if nautilus doesnt support that through a gconf key i fear it wont work ...
<scythe> ogra: hmm, didn't try nautilus. just pessulus and sabayon.
<ogra> nautilus is the filemanager
<scythe> ogra: ah, ok ;)
<scythe> ogra: first time on gnome. normaly I use Kanotix with KDE
<ogra> you coud disable the "show-desktop" key, but then you would also loose the ability to have folders on the desktop
<cbx33> ogra: is sabayon stable enough for us to use?
<ogra> well, it still will need a default profile and likely the package should have a debconf feature that adds this profile to all existing users
<ogra> but i want to put it in the ship seed, so its on the CD but not installed by default 
<cbx33> right ok
<cbx33> bud, I need a date.....I know that freeze is coming soon, and I know you're so busy
<cbx33> but I also know that we'll need to tweak my code here and there
<cbx33> what is my deadlin for new features...?
<cbx33> as in sorting pessulus, 
<cbx33> and looking at VNC....I left that till last as you said you'd do it if you had time
<cbx33> I just don;t want us to ge to the stage where it's in too much of a mess to amke it for edgy
<cbx33> it's gotten some great new features would be ashame to miss out on them
<highvoltage> hi there ogra
<ogra> we always can drop features if its to difficult to get them in properly 
<ogra> i dont think pessulus is a critical one
<cbx33> oh yeh I know that
<cbx33> well, shall we say this
<ogra> the exec/message and kill features were the most important ones
<cbx33> i mean I'm pretty sure if we come up with a sane way to do the ssh keys it'll be fine
<cbx33> the interface in SCP is done
<ogra> and these you solved in a beautiful way
<cbx33> I just need to change the command line so to speak
<cbx33> thanks ogra :D
* highvoltage thinks he's in ogra's ignore list
<ogra> highvoltage, nah
<cbx33> highvoltage: I know I'm in that list...it's just I manage to bufferoverflow it :p
<ogra> highvoltage, morning
<highvoltage> ogra: :)
<cbx33> oh and remember the plugin system....I'm really gonna push you here, I'd like to push for server/client implementation this release
<cbx33> I'll keep the old system too, but I know I can do it
<cbx33> and it would make it so much more powerful
<cbx33> it's all up here .... ^ 
<ogra> right, but it will make the spec more complicated 
<scythe> can I duplicate an user account? so I don't have to setup xy times new accounts?
<ogra> remember we need to get that approved 
<cbx33> only slightly.....
<cbx33> yeh....ok 
<cbx33> all it will do is run the server plugin as stated..
<cbx33> then signal over dbus to run the client one too
<cbx33> but you're right
<cbx33> the spec would be more complicated 
<cbx33> ok we'll leave that for edgy +1
<cbx33> I'll take a look at the pessulus problem, as I'm pretty sure we can solve that easily
<ogra> lets make small steps in the beginning ... edgy+1 will have a way longer feature development time
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> I get carried away
<scythe> ogra: are you the head developer?
<ogra> scythe, until dapper i was, yes ... now we're rater moving to a team effort
<ogra> so i have more dev time and less maintenance work to do ;) 
<scythe> ogra: ah, I think I saw your presentation on linuxtag 06 :=)
<ogra> ah, nice :)
<cbx33> ogra: will you be working on VNC?
<cbx33> when you ge a spare 20 seconds?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> if it would be doable in 20sec i'd have done it already
<cbx33> it is doable in 20 seconds for you :p
<ogra> i'm a bit under pressure to get the dhcpd stuff in so it can be on knot 2 or 3
<ogra> it will need testing
<ogra> (knot 2 is planned for this week)
<ogra> and i'm still hitting debian introduced bugs that need fixage even before knot2, else ltsp wont be useable
<cbx33> right 
<cbx33> those are totally important
<cbx33> I'll try to look at it...
<cbx33> see what I can come up with
<cbx33> man I hate Windows XP
<highvoltage> who doesn't
<cbx33> i have a machine that's taking 2 mins to login
<cbx33> just sitting on applying pseronaly settings
<cbx33> can I see what it's doing
<cbx33>  NO!
<scythe> doesn't anyone know how to duplicate an user account (sample account)?
<cbx33> duplicate what about it?
<cbx33> why don't you write a bash script, give it a list of usernames and it'll create them all the same
<highvoltage> scythe: you can also create a new user using the old user as a skeleton directory
<scythe> highvoltage: how does it work?
<scythe> cbx33: but then they don't have the settings I made. for example the menu, the background, installed programs in home directory, ...
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> then do what highvoltage said
<scythe> but how?
<cbx33> there is a command line option to use a skel dir
<cbx33> run man useradd
<scythe> thx :)
<cbx33> np
<highvoltage> scythe: useradd has a -k switch for skeleton directory
<highvoltage> so you would use, for example
<highvoltage> useradd newuser -m -k /home/olduser
<scythe> highvoltage: thx
<highvoltage> you'd then need to give the user a password with:
<highvoltage> passwd newuser
<scythe> highvoltage: I'll test it :)
<scythe> highvoltage: works perfekt. I copied the needed stuff under /etc/skel. so every new user is created with my defaults.
<cbx33> nice scythe 
<cbx33> highvoltage: does that change all the permissions too?
<scythe> cbx33: by creating new accounts with /etc/skel it does
<cbx33> cool
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, it does
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33
<rodarvus> you were looking for me last night, right?
<cbx33> i was 
<cbx33> but it's all sorted
<cbx33> I foudn a strange bug
<cbx33> and want to check ti wasn't a security risk
<cbx33> goto a text console and type [D as the username and press enter
<cbx33> all the text from then on is in capitals
<cbx33> one person hasn;'t been able to reproduce
<cbx33> 3 have
<cbx33> strange eh?
<rodarvus> oh, cbx33 left
<rodarvus> how strange. *all* irc channels are extremely quiet today
<jsgotangco> RichEd: are you there and free for a moment?
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco ... yep ... got a few minutes ... may have an incoming phone call soon
<jsgotangco> ok this should be quick
<jsgotangco> I got to talk to the E Media group today
<jsgotangco> we're pretty much not in tune at the moment, there's a disconnect...
<jsgotangco> these guys are broadcasters, not interactive media people
<jsgotangco> so we can't seem to make a connection on where interactive education can come in :/
<jsgotangco> at the moment, the DVD shows works
<RichEd> okay ... do you have a bit of time to look at a South African Model ? a partner of ours in the HP NEPAD schools project ?
<jsgotangco> i can look, but i need URLs or case studies
<jsgotangco> a server model won't work here, its too costly
<jsgotangco> we're expecting a donation of old  PPCCs
<jsgotangco> err PPCs
<RichEd> As quick background, they produce learning content for regular TV broadcast and also package into stream & store for replay.
<RichEd> They are a "non-profit foundation" with an excellent reputation and long term history. Started with Newspaper insert, and on to TV and then on to IT. May be a good model to follow.
<RichEd> Give me a minute to get you the links.
<RichEd> here you go: have a look at this http://www.mindset.co.za/
<RichEd> They are serious enough about assisting education to be prepared to share learnings if requested.
<jsgotangco> yeah, its obviously an evolution in learning but how a foundation with television media experience go into interactive education is another question...also the said learning content on DVD is based on the government curriculum and accredited
<RichEd> jsgotangco: your statement above is an exact parallel with the evolution of mindset. from print, to TV, to PC. government approved. curriculum. engage the department of health. 100% fit.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: im sure you get what I mean, its pretty easy to say hey here's kalzium its an award winning chemistry app, then they will ask, so what, we make chemistry teaching story based and it works,
<RichEd> That is again exactly what mindset do. If cartoons are the best medium to teach, they use them. The move towards IT is "when IT is better at delivery" not just "because".
<jsgotangco> we know it'll be effective but the question is how to make it non invasive
<jsgotangco> with GILAS, its easier because its just internet access
<jsgotangco> with EMedia its quite complicated
<RichEd> Browse the site link above. If eMedia is serious, they can engage Mindset to share the model. I can provide introductions.
<RichEd> It is NOT an attempt to push IT into schools. It is a learning network, first & foremost. With apropriate tools & mediums for a best fit with education goals. No other agenda.
* RichEd will be back in 10 mins
<jsgotangco> RichEd: I think they're quite serious about it, otherwise, they wouldn't have called the whole management team and discuss about it with me
<jsgotangco> ;)
<cberlo> Hi folks.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: its just that im not an educator by profession and this is getting way out of my head ;)
<cberlo> Anyone know anything about VLANs, and configuring them between Cisco and Nortel routers?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: it is like the two towers ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: thanks for that good response on that e-mail, I didn't quite understand why it was a .xml file myself, but you cleared it up very nicely
<jsgotangco> yeah i noticed it was d.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> ive just seen the biggest sized powerpoint presentation ever at the moment
<jsgotangco> and its taking forever to open from OOo2 ;)
<jsgotangco> oh its on a spongebob squarepants CDR lol
<highvoltage> lol
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: dude its 207MB
<highvoltage> users are quite bad like that
<highvoltage> they don't care putting a 20MB .tif file in a slide :)
<jsgotangco> i will probably have to find a windows CD with powerpoint to check this out
<highvoltage> wow
<highvoltage> the software should put a limit on file sizes on the pics, or scale it down
<highvoltage> or at least present the options to do so
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i wonder if its a bunch of embedded AVIs
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it came from a media foundation, so I guess they love moving images
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> yeah, Spongebob series 1 :)
<jsgotangco> *sigh* i may have to reboot this laptop to xp and download a ppt viewer
<jsgotangco> brb
<highvoltage> hey th1a 
<th1a> hi highvoltage.
<th1a> What's up?
<highvoltage> we've been using schoollink, a local school administration package in our schools
<highvoltage> but it doesn't work on dapper, so with our dapper upgrades we installed schooltool, just until schoollink releases a new version
<highvoltage> but now those schools are pesting us for schooltool training, which we don't have
<highvoltage> are there any training manuals that are apt for trainers that we could use for schooltool?
<th1a> What are they trying to do with SchoolTool?
<highvoltage> some things they want to do i realise won't work in schooltool yet... in short...
<highvoltage> they want to draw up time tables, do school accounting,
<highvoltage> keep track of grades and pring quarterly reports for the parents...
<th1a> You installed the version in the Ubuntu repository?
<highvoltage> yes
<th1a> That one really only does calendaring.
<highvoltage> are there debs for the full schooltool? we could distribute it with our next update cd, if we could support it and arrange some kind of training
<th1a> You can download an alpha from our website that does more, but it isn't really ready for endusers.
<th1a> highvoltage: We're just not that far yet.
<th1a> Unfortunately.
<th1a> Much to my chagrin.
<highvoltage> fair enough.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<sbalneav> How's it going?
<highvoltage> going great, thanks
<highvoltage> i've been so busy handing work to other people that i've hardly had time to do anything else
<highvoltage> it's starting to pay off now though, which is great :)
<sbalneav> Excellent
* ogra has a hard day today ... trying to shave the CD in slim slices down to 700MB again ...
<sbalneav> ewww, yeah, byte grubbing's always hard work.
<ogra> well, we're ~22MB oversized ...
<ogra> no idea where to get that from
<sbalneav> 22 meg!
<sbalneav> Yipes
<ogra> yes :(
<highvoltage> ouch
<sbalneav> This for the live, or install cd?
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<ogra> sbalneav, install, i dont look at live at all yet
<ogra> install is what we ship ... so thats highest prio
<cbx33> for this ssh implementation we'll have an authorized_keys file in the skel ?
<sbalneav> eep
<ogra> and i should have it cut down to 700M today
<ogra> else we'll miss knot2
<cbx33> so every user gets created with our pub key?
<ogra> cbx33, sorry, i'm very busy with the CDs atm ...
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<ogra> no time to discuss SCP 
<cbx33> put me on the ignore list
<ogra> heh, no
<cbx33> I'll try things and you say yay/nay later
<ogra> if i get it in shape i'll have time again
<cbx33> or Ja oder nein
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> Ich weis nicht
<bddebian> Hello
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> would anybody complain if i drop gnome2-user-guide ?
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> what's happened with example content now?
<ogra> it was never in
<ogra> #ubuntu-devel suggested dropping blender ...
<ogra> what do you guys think
<highvoltage> blender is useless on ltsp
<highvoltage> people who can afford a lab full of fat clients can afford to download a blender deb
<ogra> blender works totally fine with ltsp
<cbx33> yeh I agree
<highvoltage> so blender is probably safe to drop, even though it's a really 'cool' thing to have in an educational distro
<cbx33> it's really cool, but not good if you have many people using it
<ogra> right 
<cbx33> one is cool
<cbx33> two is slow
<highvoltage> we used to have blender when we used K12-LTSP in our labs
<ogra> you need a powerful server for it
<cbx33> three I kick them all off :p
<highvoltage> and when 24 people start it up, it kills the network and server
<ogra> ok
<highvoltage> so, my rationale is, if you can afford *that* powerful server, you could probably afford to download the deb :)
<ogra> RichEd, any objections to that from a educational manager POV ?
<cbx33> how big is blender
<cbx33> are we making way for anything
<cbx33> or is this just general cd growth
<ogra> Size: 4912610
<highvoltage> i hope laserjock and cbx33 find nice ways of replacing kde-edu, that would be the major ++
<RichEd> highvoltage's argument makes sense ...
<ogra> 5 meg
<cbx33> highvoltage, Amaranth was working on gallium
<ogra> highvoltage, not for edgy though
<highvoltage> ogra: i understand
<cbx33> if that slows I'll try and pick it up for edgy +1
<ogra> thats my major prob atm ... 
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> i thought it was going to be ready for edgy
<cbx33> Amaranth started off guns blazing
<cbx33> but I can't get it ready for edgy now
<highvoltage> imho, kde-edu really needs to be replaced for edgy +1, either that, or start using DVD's, because even with the current size of the applications, the edubuntu part of the cd has to shrink with every release because ubuntu gets bigger and bigger
<ogra> Amaranth should rather care for willowng before starting something new
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> we need it ... urgently
<cbx33> highvoltage, ++
<ogra> highvoltage, we have marks approval for DVDs i heard ... but that would lock out a lot of users
<jsgotangco> bah!
<ogra> i'D still rather go with a two CD setup
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> but then we'd loose shipit
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu: "It grows"
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> dvd writers are quite big in all poor countires, as far as i understand
<highvoltage> but i trust your judgement
<highvoltage> ogra: how about making the second cd optional?
<ogra> highvoltage, until now i trused yours
<highvoltage> ogra: what happened?
<ogra> you said they were not feasable
<highvoltage> no i didn't
<ogra> you did back then in london
<highvoltage> i always supported the dvd option
<highvoltage> i did!
<ogra> hmm
<highvoltage> i remember someone making noise about DVD's not being a good option, but it wasn't me
<ogra> that would give us so many new opportunities ... like shipping all 90 langs 
<highvoltage> we've beein putting dvd drives in tuxlabs for a very, very long time, there would be no reason for me to object to dvd's
* highvoltage tries to think who it was that objected
<jsgotangco> most computers over here still don't have DVD drives :P
<ogra> RichEd, would you mind to find out what the k12 community would think about DVds by default ? 
<jsgotangco> especially the cheapest ones
<ogra> (since you are cummunicating with them most of us)
<highvoltage> ogra: honestly, i think you're confusing what someone else said with me
<ogra> highvoltage, sorry then ... it was always my impression it were your words :)
<highvoltage> i remember the discussion well, but i can't remember who the person was that objected to the dvd's
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: burn you at the stake
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe
<highvoltage> i have a suspition who it might have been, but i'm not sure, i'd rather say nothing
<ogra> flint ? 
<highvoltage> ogra: so in principle, you don't have any objections for dvd's if it's widely accessable?
<jsgotangco> i would probably object to a dvd as well but then they are quite cheap already
<cbx33> what about this additional CD malarky
<ogra> well, thats really something we should hear about from the users
<highvoltage> i remember thinking it was someone who didn't live in a poor country, which is why flint comes to mind too, but i'm not sure
<cbx33> i would object to dvd :p
<ogra> cbx33, we'd loose the opportunity for shipit
<highvoltage> i just remember the comment, not who said it
<ogra> the expensive part is the shipping, not the pressing
<cbx33> ogra, but if the main cd gave them everything they needed
<cbx33> as most people customize
<cbx33> the additional CD could finish it off
<ogra> we wouldnt ship anything incomplete ...
<jsgotangco> i wonder if it will for edgy ;)
<jsgotangco> ubuntu is growing
<cbx33> well not incomplete
<jsgotangco> now we have mono
<ogra> no, *we* dont
<highvoltage> ogra: it depends on the definition of complete, doesn't it?
<ogra> ubuntu has ...
<cbx33> i mean, 
<highvoltage> ubuntu cd's doesn't ship the entire 'main'
<cbx33> if we had a CD which setup everything
<RichEd> ogra: will do
<jsgotangco> ogra: you're dropping mono?
<highvoltage> so would it be incomplete?
<cbx33> but didn't give you the rich set of apps
<cbx33> then you have the option
<ogra> jsgotangco, it never really entered
<cbx33> doenload the ones you want
<ogra> its 20MB
<cbx33> or use the additional CD
<jsgotangco> i thought so
<ogra> it eneterd for some days where i didnt update the seeds ...
<cbx33> so users who only had CD roms in their server...like me
<ogra> and pushed the CDs to 750M
<cbx33> would be able to get the functioning complete system
<cbx33> and then install "more" apps seperately
<ogra> so you opt for an edubuntu without edu apps ? 
<jsgotangco> the dailies are oversized lately
<highvoltage> sorry, i didn't mean to fuel more discussion on this, ogra and canonical need to decide on the most feasable options, and put it out to the community to choose, I think I've said what I can :)
<cbx33> not without them entirely
<cbx33> but possibly without some
<cbx33> that could be "easily" added
<ogra> cbx33, gcompris and kdeedu must stay ...
<cbx33> like the old debian net boot
<ogra> as tuxpaint
<cbx33> but more friendly
<highvoltage> ogra: what we mean with a second cd is (just for clarity), is that optional stuff, like blender and example-content, go on a second cd
<ogra> and the others arent even 10 meg
<cbx33> is there actaully anything left after that
<cbx33> ok, it was only an idea
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i agree with blender
<cbx33> sorry :)
<cbx33> :(
<jsgotangco> but its not that huge
<highvoltage> so the first cd is still a complete edubuntu, the second cd is just additional tools and software theat would be helpful
<ogra> blender is gone
<ogra> no need to discuss it :)
<highvoltage> I just used it as an example :)
<cbx33> I tell you what we need
<cbx33> seriosuly
<ogra> blender has one big prob ... it depends on ffmpeg now 
<cbx33> a webpage/doc which documents all the education apps
<jsgotangco> we could probably remove a lot of the small stuff, like gaim, but they're so small to make an impact
<cbx33> that "could" be installed
<ogra> we wouldnt be able to ship it that way anyway ... and i'd need to cripple the package
<cbx33> like a database of educational apps
<highvoltage> imho, the dvd would be the best option, since, like ogra says, it solves the space problem, it makes shipping easier, and it leaves a nice amount of space for things like a small wikipedia distribution
<highvoltage> (sorry, I'll shut up now before I open more cans)
<cbx33> i just worry about how many people will not try it .... cause it's on dvd
<ogra> cbx33, that wont help in the areas witout proper broadband
<cbx33> ogra, true
<cbx33> i dunno,
<ogra> dont forget what we write on the homepage
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i would say its sensible, for one to set up a lab with at least an external dvd drive or hvae one of the machines if its a 1:1 model
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
* cbx33 doesn't have a dvd burner at home even
<jsgotangco> a 1:1 model would be disastrous for a dvd though
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: and if you have one machine with a drive, you can also pxe install to all the others over the network
<jsgotangco> cbx33: dvd drive != dvd burner
<cbx33> true...but if I'm going to download to burn
<ogra> why should you
<highvoltage> cbx33: if it's on dvd, you can get it from shipit
<cbx33> true
<ogra> if you dont have a writer, you order it from shipit
<cbx33> what about testing?
<cbx33> and people who want to help develop
<cbx33> or want to try it quickly
<highvoltage> eek, that's a tough one yes
<ogra> hrasynco ? 
<cbx33> I'm just throwing up suggestons
<ogra> err
<ogra> grasynco
<jsgotangco> well i can't download DVDs immediately for sure, so our uncle ogra would send us
<cbx33> heheh is this you forcing a name change ogra ?
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> the rsync is usually very small
<jsgotangco> yeah
<cbx33> well, ok
<ogra> you'd need to pull the iso once
<highvoltage> this discussion is providing some nice solutions :)
<cbx33> so are we thinking the dvd for this rel;ease or next?
<jsgotangco> although i do admit it took me half a day to get debian DVDs from jigdo
<cbx33> I need to work on grasynco more :p
<ogra> cbx33, i can tell you after the next iso build ...
<cbx33> ok ogra 
<cbx33> I'm off out in a short while
<ogra> if i'm able to get it in shape now and have some spare space all is fine
<cbx33> I'll beinterested if someone could mail me the results of the discussion :p
<cbx33> and all is silent
<cbx33> i dunno i minutes for you guys every week:p
<cbx33> haahahah
<cbx33> never on TIME !!!!!
<cbx33> eeeeeeek
<cbx33> i gotta dash
<cbx33> swimming :p
* jsgotangco should get in shape real soon
<ogra> we somehow are left out in the newsletter recently :/
<highvoltage> when's the next newsletter stories due?
<ogra> no idea ... they just arrive in my inbox from time to time :)
<pygi> highvoltage, I've cheated libburn, and burned DVD with it, sweet :)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<highvoltage> pygi: and can you actualy read the dvd? ;)
<cbx33> bbl gy
<pygi> highvoltage, ofcourse, MD5 don't match, but dvd content is there and workable
<cbx33> us
<pygi> readable*
<pygi> highvoltage, also fixed the eject yesterday, fedora got it in their repos, whee :)
<pygi> all good news so far :)
<highvoltage> absolutely!
<pygi> we've got enormous number of bugs fixed in two weeks, got partial dvd support, fixed eject, rewrited libisofs, made cdrskin usable for audio :)
<bddebian> w00t
<pygi> highvoltage, you'll soon be able to test bonfire/brasero with libburn support
<pygi> it shall support everything but dvd support (even copy on the fly (but without -tao, using sao and image size)) as you are used to see from cdrecord :)
<pygi> (ok, and no cd text, but that's my fault :P)
<pygi> bddebian, what? :)
<bddebian> pygi: That you have gotten alot of bug fixes, etc :-)
<Burgundavia> ogra: ridell wrote the kubuntu section. I didn't have any edubuntu news
<ogra> Burgundavia, who do you usually ask for edubuntu news ? 
<cberlo> How difficult would I be making my life if I temporarily installed LTSP 4.2 into Edubuntu until all of the MueKow features are completed?
<ogra> it will break
<ogra> either do a edubuntu workstation install and put ltsp 4.2 on top manually or use edubuntus ltsp
<cberlo> ogra: even if I follow the "recommended" procedure of installing the alternate version into another location?
<ogra> you cant mix them
<cberlo> Okay, I see what you mean.  Don't mix.  But I can put them both on, and enable one or the other as needed without borking the whole system?
<cberlo> (I've done a lot of work on this project over the summer and it's crunch time -- they want printing, no question about that at all...)
<ogra> well, i'll surely look into printing support before the edgy release .... but i'm not sure i can packport it to dapper
<ogra> *backport
<cberlo> Frustrating... I want to be patient and let you do your job -- I have faith -- but I also need this project to be successful.  Up to 3000 clients may be in question.  An entire School Board.  Nice PR, if it all works.
<cberlo> Okay, and a final thing I'll bug you on for now:  is there an easy way to quickly connect a Windows workstation to LTSP (for a demo to non-technical types)
<ogra> you mean abusing a win pc as client ? 
<ogra> sure, if it supports PXE booting ... 
<ogra> aternatively you can create a bootfloppie with PXE emulation
<cberlo> ogra: Yep, pretty much -- but while Windoze is running -- like a "mini-X" connecting to XDM or such.
<ogra> that wont work
<ogra> we dont support xdmcp
<ogra> muecow uses ssh for X transport 
<cberlo> ogra: Actually, that's how I've got it running, so I can use pam_mount...
<cberlo> ogra:  I "bypassed" ssh and X
<highvoltage> ogra: would it be difficult to make a live cd that only boots up and opens up ldm and connect to a server
<highvoltage> hmmm...
<ogra> well, thats fine, just keep in mind that you wont be able to get commercial support for that setup from us (yet)
<cberlo> highvoltage: Live CD would be no problem, but I want to do this from within Windows for our Principals, Guidance Staff, etc. so they can just get a "taste" of things.
<highvoltage> could you just write /opt/ltsp/i386 to CD and add a kernel would that work?
<ogra> highvoltage, you surely could do that ...
<ogra> no
<cberlo> ogra: That's okay.  I'm pretty much the support around here -- they're really trying to avoid paying to support these older clients.
<ogra> you would have to take a liveCD image and modify that (drop -desktop, add ltsp-client and ldm)
<cberlo> (old PCs running win95 and Win98 that they want to keep on the net but not pay per-seat licenses and such)
<Burgundavia> ogra: anybody or find it myself
<cberlo> ogra: Did something like that with DSL, then planted it in QEMU, but the routing doesn't seem to work out to get me a display through XDMCP broadcast or query -- I think it conflicts with the "real" machine services.
<ogra> Burgundavia, ok, i can give you an update for tech stuff, just ping me before the news get written, so i can prepare something
<highvoltage> ogra: why would i drop ldm from the livecd? how else would i log into the edubuntu server?
<ogra> doesnt putty have a -X switch nowadays ? 
<ogra> you could use a default edubuntu server if it had
<cberlo> ogra: Yes, but that needs a local X server...
<highvoltage> i think you have to have X11 installed on windows too to use -X
<ogra> and using xdmcp doesnt need a local X server ?
<cberlo> ogra: Yes, that still needs local X, but nothing more, really.
<cberlo> Minimal X I've been able to get with XDMCP support is about 120MB.  A bit big of an install for a "quick demo"
<cberlo> brb
<ogra> well, with putty you need local X and putty :)
<ogra> thats not significantly bigger
<jsgotangco> good night
<Burgundavia> ogra: issue 12 is bing written right now
<ogra> Burgundavia, ltsp has support for local devices on thin clients, but i wont have the time to wirte a detailed report now
<ogra> so it will have to wait for issue 13 i guess
<ogra> also SCP should be made very prominent once i merged cbx33's branch
<ogra> Burgundavia, i gues thats likely to verbose for the newsletter http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2006-August/000339.html
<cberlo> Okay, so I can do it with the ssh tunneling if I use putty, but I still need X from windows.  I think I can do that for now.  
<cberlo> I know I said that last thing was the last thing for now, but one last thing...  :)  Any suggestions on how to make a full backup to an SMB share?  Seem to be hitting a 2GB file size limit...
<Burgundavia> yep
<cberlo> Well, if anyone has an idea, drop me a line...  I'm going elsewhere, but I'll be sitting in the channel and I'll check the logs later..
<ubuntux1> hi all
<LaserJock> hi
<EmxBA> hi
<ubuntux1> i like edubuntu more than ubuntu:)
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> RichEd: ping?
<highvoltage> hi mhz
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<mhz> highvoltage: hi there
<highvoltage> hey las	
<highvoltage> grrr
<highvoltage> bonjour LaserJock!
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav and no, I haven't had a chance to finish it today :/
<LaserJock> stupid research
<LaserJock> I hate it when real life (and the need for sleep for that matter) gets in the way of being a Ubuntu-holic
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I was thinking, your edubuntu-update-menus program could still be there, it could just 1) make sure the files are group owned correctly, and 2) combine all the .menu's into the big meta applications.menu.
<LaserJock> yeah, I was thinking that too
<sbalneav> No problem, sorry, wasn't meaning to bug.  How was the fire?
* pygi wants opinions : http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1556/templatevp8.png
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it got contained pretty fast, they had over 20 fire trucks and ~200 firemen on it
<LaserJock> awfully smokey though
<sbalneav> pygi: holy mackeral!  Are kids allowed to see that??!
<pygi> sbalneav, !!! why is that?!
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Just pulling your leg
<sbalneav> Looks awesome.
<pygi> ;)
* sbalneav pulls that joke on anyone who posts a picture.
<pygi> thanks
<sbalneav> libburn's the GPL replacement for cdrecord, yes?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, I've seen a few where that would be warranted so it's good to keep in mind ;-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I've been a systems administrator for 16 years.  I've seen a few in which the police were called. :(
<LaserJock> yeah, we seem to have those at the Uni now and then
<sbalneav> yep.
<sbalneav> Nasty old world.  Always has been, always will be.
<Lilandra> Hello
<LaserJock> hi Lilandra 
<Lilandra> Ooo! there are people here!
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> but people need to sleep some times :-)
<Lilandra> well, i've never been...my install put #ubuntu in my default connection, not #edubuntu
<Lilandra> so it finally occurred to me to check
<LaserJock> ah, well welcome
<Lilandra> thanks
<mhz> Lilandra: hi there. What version of Edubuntu are you running?
<Lilandra> 6.06. something?
<Lilandra> dapper..
<Lilandra> for ppc
<LaserJock> cool
<Lilandra> i got my wireless working on it and when i tried xubuntu for some odd reason it was stressing me out so...
<sdfsaedcjhm> hi
<Lilandra> hi
<sdfsaedcjhm> wassup
<Lilandra> nothing much
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<sdfsaedcjhm> do you use edubuntu?
<Lilandra> atm yes
<sdfsaedcjhm> is it good?
<Lilandra> im trying to get my trackpad to work but 
<Lilandra> well i think it's nice and cute
<sdfsaedcjhm> is it better than the other ubuntus?
<Lilandra> better? well i don't know if any is better than another
<sdfsaedcjhm> what desktop does it use?
<LaserJock> Gnome
<Lilandra> personally i prefer gnome to kde so ubuntu/edubuntu to me are nicer
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<Lilandra> i tried xubuntu and that was ok
<LaserJock> and Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubtunu, and Xubuntu all come from the same software repositories
<LaserJock> so they are pretty similar
<LaserJock> it's just a matter of default packaging mostly
<sdfsaedcjhm> so what are the small differences?
<LaserJock> well, in Edubuntu there are educational applications installed by default
<LaserJock> and you can install and LTSP server using Edubuntu
<LaserJock> it's geared more for schools and young kids
<Lilandra> could you not do that for other ubuntus?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but with Edubuntu it's just automatically there
<LaserJock> same as you can install Kubuntu
<LaserJock> and then install Gnome and use Gnome if you wanted to
<LaserJock> but then why not just install Ubuntu
<Lilandra> are just install all the desktops
<Lilandra> :)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I do that sometimes too
<Lilandra> i wish when i partitioned my powerbook i gave more room for linux
<sdfsaedcjhm> all of them?
<Lilandra> gtg! bye
<cbx33> ping ogra 
#edubuntu 2006-08-30
<bddebian> Hello
<gotama> Hi There! Has anyone succeeded in installing the scanner Epson Perfection 1270?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey bddebian
<LaserJock> evening
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you around?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yep
<LaserJock> heah
<LaserJock> sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22029
<highvoltage> good morning sbalneav and LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<sbalneav> evening highvoltage
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks good
<LaserJock> much simpler than what I had before
<sbalneav> Only thing I'd do is ditch the empty declaration of XDG_CONFIG_DIRS= at the top
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> Other than that, looks shweet
<sbalneav> You happy with it?  The solution, I mean?
<LaserJock> ok, so how am I going to come up with .menu files? :-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yes, very excellent
<sbalneav> Super Duper
<LaserJock> it's small, fast, and it works
<sbalneav> 12:20 am here.  Need to get up at 6:30
<sbalneav> time for bed :)
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> good night
<sbalneav> Night, dude!
<LaserJock> ok, I'm out too
<LaserJock> good night highvoltage
<highvoltage> night LaserJock!
<jsgotangco> i hereby announce the assimilation of abs-cbn foundation into ubuntu and edubuntu!
<jsgotangco> bwahahha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what is abs-cbn again? it sounds very familiar
<jsgotangco> well its a television network
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABS-CBN
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco, highvoltage
<jsgotangco> but i'll be working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABS-CBN_Foundation
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i had a small lunch with the head of GILAS http://www.gilas.org (FLASH)
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia 
* highvoltage reads
<jsgotangco> so two foundations are now looking into FOSS into their school projects
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: very cool. What are you going to be doing there?
<jsgotangco> well mostly doing stuff for E Media, how a traditional TV based education system evolve to something that uses computers
<Burgundavia> cool
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: looks very nice
<jsgotangco> its quite challenging
<highvoltage> internet in schools+++
<jsgotangco> some parts are awaiting for wimax
* RichEd pats jsgotangco on the back ... well done !
<RichEd> hi guys
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> we're a go-go-go
<RichEd> So is it official jsgotangco ? offer made & accepted ?
<jsgotangco> offer is made and quite delish
* jsgotangco needs to lookmore into mindset learn now
<RichEd> ahhh small lunch with delish offer for desert :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I've got an hour set aside to put that mail together for you as promised ... 
<jsgotangco> the hard part is reallhy e media...
<RichEd> note that Canonical is a member of the HP consortium for NEPAD eSchools, and so is Mindset
<RichEd> And there is general agreement that partners in the consortium need to network and share opportunities
<RichEd> So any discussion will not come in as a surprise from left field to them.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: well to be frank, the discussion is not so much into technology, which is not surprising, the issue is more social
<jsgotangco> we know technology will work, the question is how ;)
<RichEd> Mindset is a social organisation, that uses appropriate tools. It's not "a progress for the sake of technology" mission.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did tuxlabs provide content? or just a lab and connectivity?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: here's the thing, we have content, with a medium that works
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we provide content, but not connectivity
<highvoltage> connectivity is only something we're starting to roll out now (a great relief for our support team)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: is the content based in the school curriculum?
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> it's curriculum alligned and approved by government
<highvoltage> the curriculum we use is http://www.computers4kids.co.za, http://www.learnthings.co.za, http://www.mindset.co.za
<jsgotangco> that's exactly what we're looking
<highvoltage> we wouldn't be able to install the labs so easily with local government approval if we didn't have the right content
<highvoltage> unfortunately, non of it is free software :/
<highvoltage> although, we do include some free content, such as the SOS Children Wikipedia distribution, Howtoons, etc
<jsgotangco> i think the issues are pretty much the same
* highvoltage nods
<jsgotangco> i was told that MS sells its OS for $2.50 per PC with GILAS
<jsgotangco> USD
<jsgotangco> but GILAS still prefers something that is free (in cost)
<highvoltage> in south africa, MS gives Windows and MS Office for school for free until 2008
<highvoltage> after that i think they have to pay full price again :/
<RichEd> highvoltage: The match between eMedia and Mindset is spot on. From the donor philanthropic aims & funding down to delivery by apropriate technology medium, starting with Newspapers, and moving through Video casettes, standard TV, satellite, and onto streaming content.
<RichEd> highvoltage: are you sure about the free Windows ? that's not what HP was exposed to.
<highvoltage> RichEd: yep, i'm sure
<RichEd> The argument from MS was that giving away an operating system is a bad precedent. There is still an OEM charge for Windows, but Office is free. That was the GautengOnline situation.
<highvoltage> RichEd: although it only applies to schools that own existing windows licenses (win95, win98, etc)
<highvoltage> schools with brand new equipment (like g-o), will have to pay for new licenses
<RichEd> So its free if you already have it and donlt need it. But not free if you need it and want it. That sounds about right for the usual attittude ;)
<highvoltage> some of our schools have an additional lab, where they went for the free licenses. unfortunately they couldn't show me the agreement (i'd love to take it apart)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: with GILAS, everything is donated, but eMedia sells content
<highvoltage> RichEd: spot on :)
<jsgotangco> the GILAS people also have a project for primary school which is different and geared towards content delivered on satellite, like a tivo
<RichEd> highvoltage: I'm offering you free use of a Lamborghini, if you have one already. If not, you are welcome to buy one at retail value.
<RichEd> :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: i just happen to own a Lamborghini
<highvoltage> RichEd: when can I fetch my new one?
<RichEd> Great. Feel free to use the existing one without paying me royalties.
* highvoltage scrambles to find an old lamborghini in the cape ads
<highvoltage> heh
<RichEd> Note that you will need the necessary paperwork and an affidavit to prove that you can't spell OpenSource.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i think the premise here is we need something that we could refer to. We can't shoot ourselves by introducing an untested medium that makes the existing one obsolete by all avenues even if its untested
<RichEd> jsgotangco: Let me get one last positioning statement for Mindset and then I'll leave the topic until I send you the mail
<jsgotangco> computers4kids seem to be fine
<RichEd> Mindset seeks to educate children. Mindset partners with media channels. Mindset's most significant media partner is MNet, a pay TV channel, satellite via decoder, who's footprint is Africa. MNet channels range from entertainment, movies, sport, kids cartoons. MNet will not support any attempt to dilute the standard pay-TV market. Mindset uses computers in schools to primarily to aid the accessability of normal TV education programs i
<RichEd> n a store for replay setup.
<jsgotangco> hmm like a tivo
<RichEd> right ... I have urgent work I need to do ... CD / DVD education opinions for ogra, proposal for russian education project, and education forward plan for mark
* RichEd is here but busy
<highvoltage> RichEd: when you have a gap, I have some questions for you too, ping me when you have a gap :)
<RichEd> (and Mindset mail + suggestions for Jerome)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: last comment before I bury my head ...
<jsgotangco> yeah?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: im supposed to wait something? or was your last statement the comment itself ;)
<cbx33> mornin peeps
<RichEd> highvoltage: I got disconnected ... did you see my pvt window ?
<cbx33> RichEd: anything happeneing on the marketting front? - If you're super busy, put me on ignore mode :p
<RichEd> cbx33: answered in private window
<Burgundavia> hey! I can actually make a Edubuntu meeting!
<cbx33> RichEd: 
<cbx33> dang it
<cbx33> I havn't identified and I sent you a bunch of replies
<cbx33> hang on
<RichEd> hi willvdl 
<RichEd> you leaving tomorrow ?
<willvdl> hi RichEd
<RichEd> will you be at the meeting tonight ?
<willvdl> tomorrow evening yeah
<willvdl> yip. nice an early one for us :)
<RichEd> okay ... are you available during the day tomorrow 
<willvdl> yip
<juliux> morning
<cbx33> hhheyy hi willvdl 
<cbx33> hi juliux 
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<willvdl> hehey cbx33
<cbx33> ping ogra : only when you have a sec
<highvoltage> :)
<flint> highvoltage, that was a very quiet meeting that we were in the middle of eh?
<highvoltage> i don't think there was an actual meeting
<highvoltage> but we clobber up the logs and people sometimes complain
<highvoltage> it's best not to have long random conversations in  ubuntu-meeting :)
<highvoltage> flint: and we confuse jsgotangco :p
<jsgotangco> i still have to remember that some of our meetings are at 4am HERE
<jsgotangco> ;)
<flint> jsgotangco, that is a very tough schedule for you to meet personally!!!
<highvoltage> 1-5am is probably the worst times a meeting can take place
* highvoltage brb
<flint> jsgotangco, Jerome, I will be continuing to work on the documentation package I shared with (and stole from) Jonathan, once I get my new house in order.  Note that this will take some time.
<jsgotangco> you moved to france?
<flint> jsgotangco, nah, Vermont.  I got to to go back to working as an electrician.  Bye for now!!!
<spiekey> hello!
<highvoltage> hi spiekey 
<spiekey> does someone know a easy to use linux school server?
<spiekey> it should have some sort of pdc (samba), too
<spiekey> since i have a mixed infrastructure here.
<highvoltage> you can do samba on Edubuntu
<spiekey> well, yes.
<ogra> its even preinstalled :)
<highvoltage> although it's not automated as much as you'd probably like it to be :/
<spiekey> currently i am using sarge. so whats the diffrence? :D
<ogra> just not preconfigured
<highvoltage> edubuntu has much newer packages than sarge
<spiekey> i was hoping to find some easy to use web interface so that the teachers can use it too.
<highvoltage> so you can expect less bugs, more optimised software, and a shorter release schedule
<ogra> are you using sarge with the debian ltsp-server packages ?
<spiekey> nope
<highvoltage> are you using ltsp at all?
<spiekey> nope
<spiekey> they have a weak server and 4 Windows clients, too.
<spiekey> i keep bumping into trouble with that M$ crap...every time :(
<highvoltage> spiekey: i've been there
<highvoltage> spiekey: what kind of problems to you have?
<ogra> well, install an edubuntu server, use the existing windows clients as thin client terminals and you wil only have to care for everything in one place ;)
<highvoltage> and how powerful are those workstations and server?
<spiekey> server is 800MHz and 512MB Ram
<spiekey> so are the clients
<spiekey> ogra: use the windows clients as linux clients you mean?
<highvoltage> that's a lot of ram for clients, they should be able to run as full workstations quite easily
<spiekey> they do run well. yes.
<highvoltage> do you have any edubuntu live cd's?
<spiekey> i actually dont have a problem right now. i just wanted to check out if there is a project which covers linux-server, windows clients, linux clients, printing, internet-proxy.
<spiekey> highvoltage: i have installed one edubuntu box here,  and its lovly
<highvoltage> i think i've heard of a school server distribution before, but can't remember what it's called
<spiekey> http://www.skolelinux.de/ ?
<spiekey> but they dont support windows clients i think
<ogra> they do as we do ...
<highvoltage> no it isn't skolelinux that I thought of
<ogra> we're working on quite similar stuff 
<ogra> i.e. i develop th enew ltsp and most external contributions come from the skole people ...
<spiekey> intresting.
<ogra> so what we have is very similar ... just that we base on ubuntu wih all its advantages
<spiekey> e.g i am missing some easy tool/interface to change users and add them. So that teachers can do this.
<highvoltage> spiekey: there's Wizzy, which is a generic school server, but I don't think it does samba
<highvoltage> http://www.wizzy.org.za
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<jsgotangco> wizzy does things differently
<highvoltage> indeed
<highvoltage> we have wizzy servers in some of our tuxlabs, although they only do mail and web cache and ldap in our labs
<RichEd> hi ogra ... I'm not having any luck finding a place to poll people for Education opinion on DVD vs CD ...
<RichEd> #schoolforge is dead ... no members at all today
<ogra> no answer on the k12 mailing list ? 
<RichEd> I will send a mail to the list ... I haven't sent an introduction to them yet, so will get that both done in one go.
<ogra> ah, k
<RichEd> We'll be around when they are active, with the late meeting tonight.
<RichEd> I'll be able to give you feedback then.
<ogra> ok
* RichEd is out for 30 minutes
<aspekt> RichEd: I prefer CD based disty - look at Suse - you can have both and if you ask for packages that are on a different CD it asks you to stick the CD. Bulk of packages are on CD1 which is good for 90% of users....etc
<cbx33> ogra, did we decide dvd or cd yet
<cbx33> i thought of a place to save 2 Mb
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hello cbx33 
<cbx33> howz it all going
<sbalneav> I'm doing fine.  Hacking, hacking, hacking.  Now that localdev's starting to wrap up, I'm turning my mind towards the future: what we need to do to get polyp/pulse audio into the mix.
<cbx33> oooh nice sbalneav 
<willvdl> what exactly is polyp/pulse?
<sbalneav> Distributed and/or network audio daemon.
<sbalneav> Currently, all LTSP implementations use esd, but esd's got some.... problems.
<cbx33> sbalneav, you da man :p
<sbalneav> For instance: it can't handle mike input, you can't have any mixer control over it, so you can't set volumes, etc.
<cbx33> :(
<sbalneav> pulseaudio (they just went through a name change, used to be polypaudio), solves all that.
<cbx33> sbalneav, :D
<sbalneav> Ties nicely into the gstreamer stack, does QoS monitoring, handles inputs AND outputs, etc.
<cbx33> sbalneav, would JACK be able to integrate with that ? heheh
<sbalneav> Ummm, I've heard of jack, not sure.  It's got it's own little thing going, right?  It's not gstreamer aware?
<cbx33> i don;t think so
<cbx33> it handles oss and alsa for sure
<willvdl> ah, thanks
<willvdl> so it's more than just audio streaming?
<sbalneav> Well, in a short sentance, it basically allows you to put an audio card out at the end of a network cable.
<sbalneav> Which is what you need for a thin client: when you run a program on the server, you want the SOUND to come out at the thin client.
<cbx33> yes
<sbalneav> Therefore, you need something to move the sound from the server, to the client.
<sbalneav> gstreamer/pulseaudio is that "something"
<cbx33> excellent
<sbalneav> gstreamer's a set of sound libraries.  The old way of doing sound was to simply write sound bits to /dev/audio.  Thats bad, because it means you can only use the sound card locally.
<willvdl> right. audio tunnelling over IP
<sbalneav> Rather, what you want to do is call a library function, and then IT can either write to /dev/audio, OR send it over the network, and let something ELSE write it to /dev/audio.
<cbx33> sbalneav, is it compressed ?
<cbx33> over the network?
<sbalneav> the library bit's gstreamer, and the something that receives the network data, and writes it to /dev/audio is pulseaudio.
<sbalneav> cbx33: You can turn on or off compression.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i was just thinking of network bandwidth
<sbalneav> On low power clients, with a 100 meg network, you'd be better off to send it uncompresses.
<cbx33> yeH?
<sbalneav> on a slow network, with a high powered terminal, compression makes more sense.
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> that's cool
<cbx33> is that gonna be an edgy + 1 feature?
<sbalneav> yep.
<sbalneav> Localdevices gets solved in edgy
<cbx33> is local apps going in there too?
<sbalneav> No, not yet
<cbx33> LocalApps makes it all a lot more feasible for my setup
<sbalneav> that's a big issue, you need lots of bits for localapps
<cbx33> I would imagine you would
<sbalneav> i.e. local mounting of home dirs, network authentication, pam tieins, etc.
<cbx33> yeh?
<sbalneav> We'll probably start looking at the problem for edgy +1 
<cbx33> excellent
<sbalneav> but I doubt the solution will be complete until edgy + n where n >= 2
<cbx33> ahh i see
<sbalneav> Off to a meeting.
<cbx33> see ya sbalneav 
<cbx33> anyone know when knot 3 is due?
<RichEd> thanks aspekt ... for the input
<jsgotangco> cbx33: when knot 2 comes out first ;)
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> but something I'm working on didn't make it to knot 2
<RichEd> aspekt: ping for a sidebar ?
<RichEd> you there will ?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: well knot 2 is scheduled this weekend
<jsgotangco> since its september next week, we'll probably have knot3 in 2 weeks or not at all ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<willvdl> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hi ... back to window ?
<willvdl> yip
<jsgotangco> goodnight all
<willvdl> ciao
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Just wanted to drop a note that I just found out about XMing -- basically, a very small X server for Windows.  In conjunction with PuTTY, you can forward your X connection from Edubuntu to a Windows machine.  Makes demonstrating to a Windows user MUCH easier.
<cberlo> ...and it even works under WINE (for the terminally curious tinkerer who would try such things)
<cberlo> ogra: Now that that's working, let me revisit a question I abandoned a while back:  do you know of a way to get pam_mount (or any other SMB-mounting mechanism) to work with "standard" ldm connections?  I need to map drives at login.
<cberlo> Okay, I see no one's all there right now... Gotta run.  I'll try send that to the users list.
<Yagisan> do we have a list of thin clients that work with edubuntu ?
* Yagisan is getting complaints that older pc's are too noisy
<Petaris> Yagisan: I have been getting my dumb clients from SolarPC http://www.solarpc.com
* Yagisan clicks
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33 
<cbx33> havn't spoken for a while
<cbx33> hows tricks
<Petaris> Yagisan: http://katerina.frederic.k12.wi.us/code/naig/index.php?album=SolarPC/
<Yagisan> had an intresting feeling today - saw some of my code in a different project
<cbx33> WOW
<cbx33> Yagisan, what was that?
<Yagisan> cbx33, yeah - my cmake build scripts were considered interesting and were included in a collection
<cbx33> nice
<Yagisan> cbx33, usually my code is really awful and no one wants it
<cbx33> heheh
<sbalneav> cbx33: pingy
<RichEd> sbalneav: ping 
<sbalneav> riched
<sbalneav> RichEd: pong
<juliux> evening
<juliux> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> hi juliux 
<juliux> RichEd, did you think we will have edubuntu/ubuntu cds two weeks after edgy ?
<RichEd> juliux: I'll need to check the process through Marilize, but I think 2 weeks is a bit optimistic ... 
<juliux> RichEd, ok
<RichEd> I'm presuming they will want to test before burnring by the thousand ...
<juliux> RichEd, sure
<RichEd> And then deliver image to pressing & prinmt company
<RichEd> And then ship to SA, and then ship to you
<RichEd> I'd say this is more that 2 weeks of process (in my estimation)
<juliux> ok
<ogra> RichEd, two weeks would be fairly late after release day
<ogra> what should they test ? thats what we do *before* we release :)
<juliux> ogra, hi, but is the image also tested?
<bddebian> Howdy
<RichEd> ogra: I thought there may be some sort of window for bug catches before commiting. And Shipit promises : Normal mail, 4-6 weeks.
<ogra> well, usually the release is a release ... we test the CDs two weeks all day
<sbalneav> ogra: find your 22 megs, BTW?
<ogra> sbalneav, see yourself: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060830.1/
<ogra> ;)
<sbalneav> w00t :)
<sbalneav> What did you take your sharp knife to?
* Yagisan does a little dance
<Yagisan> hmm. I really need to get off my arse and apply for my edubuntu membership
<juliux> go Yagisan go ;)
<Yagisan> juliux, thanks. time to document, apt-get dist-upgrade and start hacking again
<Yagisan> then I can bother ogra like I used to when I had more free time
<ogra> sbalneav, a sharp knife and a grain of luck ...
<ogra> well, rather a bolder 
<sbalneav> There a meeting today?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> 20:00 UTC
* Yagisan will not be at the meeting - but I'll try to log it
<cbx33> ogra, I'll be unable to attend the meeting tonight
<cbx33> I'm fighting with pessulus now
* RichEd is out for dinner now ... but back for the meeting
<ogra> cbx33, i assume AliasVegas wont attend as well ?
<ogra> (would be nice to hear something about artwork progress)
<cbx33> no but she has some tiem tonight to work on more artwork
<ogra> great 1
<cbx33> we will probably get back after meeting ends
<ogra> !
<cbx33> ogra, I've spoken with vuntz
<cbx33> and I'm trying to sort out pessulus
<ogra> i know
<cbx33> but I'm trying to find some docs on some undocumented functions he's using
<cbx33> Hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<EmxBA> hi
<airjump> Thin client server
<airjump> search some infos
<sbalneav> airjump: Are you looking for information?
<airjump> yes
<airjump> i have a old sun sparc ultra 5
<airjump> but no solaris
<airjump> i will install ubuntu server on it
<airjump> next step is i will install a thin client server
<airjump> i have 2 sun ray's
<airjump> That can be done ???
<airjump> Have you some links?
<sbalneav> I'm not sure if sunrays can be used as ltsp thin clients.
<sbalneav> I have no experience with them myself.
<airjump> i found this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuOnSunRay
<sbalneav> Well, that seems to indicate it can be done.
<airjump> yes
<airjump> In two weeks I take the time to try myself 
<airjump> Where do you come? 
<sbalneav> Myself?  I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
<airjump> oh, i am from germany
<airjump> what local time is it
<airjump> ?
<sbalneav> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=294+portage,+winnipeg,manitoba&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=49.893653,-97.142808&spn=0.009137,0.027122&t=k&om=1&iwloc=A
<sbalneav> Here's where I'm sitting right at the moment :)
<sbalneav> UTC-6
<sbalneav> so it's 13:30 here.
<airjump> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=45257+Essen,+Germany&ie=UTF8&z=12&ll=51.390851,7.080688&spn=0.099619,0.344009&t=k&om=1
<airjump> UTC + 2
<airjump> local 20:30
<sbalneav> Essen
<airjump> yes
<airjump> city
<sbalneav> That's where the big high speed rail crash was a few years ago, right?
<airjump> no
<airjump> In close proximity to Eschede 
<sbalneav> Ah, sorry
<airjump> i have a blog http://zille.wordpress.com If you have times 
<sbalneav> I'll have a look.  I might have to use babblefish, looks like :)
<airjump> Do they work?  Or going to the school? 
<airjump> ok
<sbalneav> Me?  I'm a sysadmin.  I've been working for 17 years.
<sbalneav> I'm also and LTSP developer.
<sbalneav> in my spare time :)
<airjump> What is LTSP?
<airjump> I try to write on English 
<airjump> in my blog
<sbalneav> Thin Clients for Linux
<airjump> ok
<airjump> Have you a link
<sbalneav> www.ltsp.org
<sbalneav> I've been working with ogra for the thin client implentation in Ubuntu/Edubuntu
<airjump> https://launchpad.net/people/zielonka-markus
<airjump> have you a jabber account
<airjump> Excuse my bad English 
<sbalneav> No, I don't.  I do all my communicating either via irc or email.
<airjump> ok
<airjump> you? https://launchpad.net/people/sbalneav
<airjump> Were they on the Ubuntucon? 
<airjump> Sorry UBUCON
<sbalneav> airjump: That's me.
<sbalneav> I wasn't at ubucon, but I've been at the last 3 ubuntu developers meetings.
<sbalneav> Where they do the speccing.
<airjump> can you explain "speccing"
<sbalneav> A "spec" is a specification.  Its where the features that will get included in the next version of Ubuntu get defined.
<airjump> ok thanks
<Burgwork> airjump, I was at Ubucon
<airjump> have you a link with photo's
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> http://whiprush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/img_6478.jpg <-- only picture I can find
<airjump> thanks
<LaserJock> wahoo! Ubucon
<airjump> What do you mean? wahoo! Ubucon
<airjump> ok i say n8
<airjump> bye
<xipponk> hello, i would like to use a live cd in a lab that has machine running win2000. i don't want the students to be able to access the HD or the win2000 network. does edubuntu allow access to write to the local machine?
<LaserJock> hmmm, if the Windows partition is NTFS then it wouldn't be writable I don't think
<xipponk> if it is fat32 (i don't know i'm not there right now)
<xipponk> does edubuntu have gcc or java sdk installed? pythin?
<LaserJock> python
<xipponk> right
<LaserJock> not sure about gcc
<LaserJock> and I doubt java
<xipponk> does edubuntu have a packages.txt file?
<xipponk> i am at the download sight and all i see are the iso's
<xipponk> wait i found the pkg list
<xipponk> clever, it's called : edubuntu-6.06.1-live-i386.list
<xipponk> sorfry about the dumb question
<xipponk> that's a short list
<xipponk> LaserJock, are you running edubuntu now?
<xipponk> sorry, scratch that i found the manifest
<xipponk> gcc-3.3-base 1:3.3.6-10
<xipponk> gcc-4.0-base 4.0.3-1ubuntu5
<xipponk> ok gcc is ther
<xipponk> java-common 0.24ubuntu2
<xipponk> java-gcj-compat 1.0.56-0ubuntu1
<xipponk> does edubuntu live have jdk ?
<xipponk> it has python too.
<xipponk> cool
<LaserJock> xipponk: no, not at the moment
<LaserJock> the live cd is different than an installed Edubuntu though
<LaserJock> xipponk: no, edubuntu doesn't have jdk. Sun's java still has license issues I believe
<xipponk> LaserJock, do you know what is in these pkgs: java-gcj-compat 1.0.56-0ubunt and java-gcj-compat 1.0.56-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> xipponk: ah, those are free java stuff, I'm not sure what exactly those are though, gimme a sec
<LaserJock> "java-gcj-compat is a collection of wrapper scripts, symlinks and jar files.  It is meant to provide a Java-RTE-like interface to the GIJ/GCJ tool set."
<xipponk> thanks
<xipponk> thanks for your help
<willvdl> evening all
<RichEd> hello 
<LaserJock> hi RichEd and willvdl 
<highvoltage> evenin' willvdl 
<highvoltage> and RichEd and LaserJock 
<highvoltage> willvdl: guess what. telkom phoned today to say that they're installing my adsl line tomorrow, let's hope they get it right this time :)
<highvoltage> (brb)
* RichEd greetz all around ... 
<RichEd> busy with an email from a mentalist ... listen to this: "Edubuntu is very similar to Moodle but has some added features and I'm considering switching. "
<willvdl> highvoltage, which kidney did they ask for?
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> RichEd, "attention kmart shoppers. Clue can be found in aisle 6 and is on special today"
<LaserJock> RichEd: hmm, "Ubuntu is similar to Firefox but has some added features"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ryanpg> hi all... anyone able to suggest lessonplanning and grading software?
<RichEd> Burgwork & LaserJock : he introduces himself as "the founder of an Internet Ministry" do I need to say more ;)
<LaserJock> RichEd: which one?
<rodarvus> Edubuntu meeting in 5 minutes, right?
<RichEd> yes ... 4 minutes ...
<rodarvus> ogra, ping
<rodarvus> ogra was silent most day, must be quite busy with Knot-2
<RichEd> ===== Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ====== 3 minutes
<crimsun> rodarvus: hi, did you receive my query regarding the headphone jack?
<rodarvus> crimsun, yes! but forgot to answer
<rodarvus> actually, I'm not using a headphone
<crimsun> ok, np
<crimsun> are there two output jacks, though?
<rodarvus> but thanks for caring, anyway :)
<rodarvus> *nods*, yes
<rodarvus> as you said, in front of the laptop
<highvoltage> hey rodarvus 
<crimsun> so is this an inaudible speaker problem or an inaudible jack(s) problem?
<RichEd> ===== Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ====== Now !
<crimsun> (feel free to follow up later, I'm in a meeting myself)
<highvoltage> willvdl: vodacom 3g can be flakey hey? my connection also just dropped
<peanut7836> could i upgrade from kubuntu to have a working ltsp server?
<highvoltage> egh, peanut should've just stayed a bit longer
* highvoltage goes to bed
<highvoltage> goodnight edubuntuland!
<pips1> highvoltage: you still here?
<highvoltage> pips1: i was just about to log out :)
<pips1> I was wondering what is happening with the website... 
<pips1> will we do a handover? and if so, when?
<highvoltage> pips1: i understood that you would own it now?
<highvoltage> pips1: your account has admnistrative access
<highvoltage> what can't you do atm?
<pips1> ah, well, RichEd said you would send an email to make it official, introduce me to the sysadmin or smth?
<highvoltage> ah, right
<RichEd> hi ... 
<highvoltage> ok, we can do that tomorrow morning?
* RichEd blushes and makes a note
<pips1> sure
<highvoltage> pips1: until that's complete, you can start working on it immediately, the formalities doesn't have to cause a delay
<rodarvus> guys, since the meeting is closed, then, I'll turn off my computer (thunder storm is really strong, though this is not amazonia :) )
<highvoltage> you have full creative control :)
<pips1> heh
<pips1> :-)
<highvoltage> rodarvus: ok, keep well!
<rodarvus> see you guys later :)
<pips1> highvoltage ok, I'll go wild :-D
<highvoltage> pips1: great!
<highvoltage> goodnight pips1 and ogra and RichEd and LaserJock 
* highvoltage falls over
<RichEd> night all
<pips1> goodnight highvoltage!
<ogra> night all
<RichEd> pips ... email address again please ... too tired to do a search on launchpad 
<pips1> philipp@din15.org
<pips1> outch, I just got myself some more spam too ;-)
<RichEd> thanks ... will send you the email in the morning ... with my coffee ...
<pips1> oki
<pips1> have a good night everyone
<RichEd> hi mhz ... we missed each other on monday
<RichEd> And I am on my way to bed now ... it's midnight here after a long day
<mhz> RichEd: hey!!
<RichEd> I've been through your emails ... and digested.
<mhz> I never expected you to be here
<mhz> great!
<RichEd> Let me give you a quick outline of where I am with this ...
* mhz is all ears
<RichEd> All sections heads have to prepare a 1 year strategy plan for Mark to review by end of tomorrow
<RichEd> It's a full plan: mission, objectives, goals, actions, deadlines
<RichEd> In order to give focus and prioritise effort.
<RichEd> We have 2 main target sections:
<RichEd> 1. adoption - become #1 or #2 in linux in education - within 12 months
<RichEd> 2. show value to Canonical - by opening doors for Ubuntu & Services
<RichEd> with me so far ?
<Burgwork> sounds like a good plan to me
<mhz> RichEd: 100%
* mhz won't interrupt unless asked
<RichEd> Once this is done, I'll be able to take your territory overview, and map against target sections.
<RichEd> I will probably ask you to help me wth this ...
<Burgwork> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=linux+education&btnG=Search <-- only distro mentioned is RH
* mhz tabs
<Burgwork> #1 clearly drives #2. Do you have specific plans for #1?
<RichEd> Burgwork: will be back in a sec
<RichEd> seen this ? : http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5816278551.html
<mhz> RichEd: well, I got good and not so good news
<RichEd> yes Burgwork : lots of plans :)
* RichEd listens to mhz /
<Burgwork> hey nixternal 
<nixternal> well hello there sir
<mhz> RichEd: with the current/new Chilean Gov, a good friend of mine as been designated as Director of FONADIS (national funding for 'accessibility')
<RichEd> that sounds like the good news
<mhz> RichEd: that is good news. I have already had a meeting with him and he has promised to help me on whatever I need
* RichEd waits for the bad news
<mhz> BUT... he just can't help mhz (one person) but an organization
<mhz> and such organization has to have good background
<Burgwork> right, so we need to find a partner
<mhz> at least 2 years of life ;)
<RichEd> understood ... and from our side, we can't just focus on one person, but a territory ... similar situation
<mhz> RichEd: Next week, I'll have a meeting with FONADIS Director of Education
<mhz> she is willing to see EDubuntu on action
<RichEd> but if we can show how actions can help to meet objectives ... then we get interest & support
<mhz> yeah
<RichEd> FONADIS Director of Education <- what do they use now ?
<mhz> So far, all I need is some kind of 'commitment', 'written agreement'  I am not alone in front of FONADIS
<RichEd> m$ in schools ?
<mhz> RichEd: nothing. That is why they are soooo interested
<mhz> there are lots of people with a11y needs
<mhz> and FONADIS has been receiving many 'temptations' from MS
<RichEd> okay ... i am too tired to get creative now ... but we need to find the bridge step
<mhz> so the FONADIS Director (my friend) has agreed to wait and see what I can offer
<RichEd> and we can discuss this together to find that bridge
<mhz> before he takes any MS product or services
<mhz> RichEd: sure!!!
<RichEd> how do you fit with the chilean Ubuntu loco team ?
<mhz> RichEd: tomorrow, I will be busy all morning untill 17 UTC
<mhz> RichEd: so far, I am the 'leader'
<RichEd> I will be busy until midnight ...
<mhz> but we are only 6 to 7 guys
<RichEd> good ... loco news ... mail me your url
<mhz> and 5 of them do not contribute on dauily basis, more in two-weeks basis
<mhz> RichEd: okys
<mhz> RichEd: firday?
<mhz> friday good for a 'meeting'?
<RichEd> but as ubuntu community loco leader, this makes you more than just a user
<cbx33> hi all
<RichEd> after 17 UTC is 7:00 pm for me here ... family time ... 
<RichEd> weekend ?
<cbx33> how was the meeting
<mhz> RichEd: sure, but Gov does not care unless they see something 'written'
<mhz> FONADIS, as all other Gov orgs, play by Gov rules
<RichEd> when is the meeting ? what day ?
<mhz> RichEd: Friday... 16 UTC ?
<RichEd> friday after 6:00 pm is difficult
<mhz> 15 UTC ?
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<mhz> weekend?
<cbx33> sorry guys looks like the bot didn't manage to log this evenings meeting
<cbx33> so minutes are out
<RichEd> yes ... weekend is better ... sunday evening ?
<RichEd> cbx33: i can send you my local log
#edubuntu 2006-08-31
<RichEd> want it ?
<mhz> RichEd: 19 UTC?
<cbx33> RichEd, yes please
<cbx33> you know my addy
<RichEd> sunday 19 UTC ... done ...
<RichEd> cbx33: sure do :)
<cbx33> RichEd, about our meeting
<mhz> RichEd: thx
<RichEd> yes cbx33 
<cbx33> monday, is gonabe difficult.....as it's the first proper day back at school
<RichEd> toosday works as well
<cbx33> shoud be better
<RichEd> cbx33: minutes sent - now with added free seconds !
* RichEd is faqqed ... time for beddy byes
<cbx33> ooooh thanx
<cbx33> nn RichEd 
<RichEd> bye all
<mhz> nn RichEd 
<cbx33> ogra, is the badly hacked code mine?
<cbx33> hehehahah
<cbx33> i hope to have at least some time to try to fix up pessulus tomorrow
<cbx33> i'm over and out guys
<cbx33> nn everyone
<Burgwork> LaserJock, you around?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgwork> want to do some more packaging?
<LaserJock> depends :-)
<Burgwork> sadly no pay this time, but the carrot is that it is open source and benefit edubuntu
<LaserJock> ah, well that sounds better
<LaserJock> what's the app?
<Burgwork> pre-book
<Burgwork> http://openuserful.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/PreBook
<Burgwork> I am currently explaining why COPYRIGHT files are a good thing to the lead developer, so I can get you a tarball, but it wouldn't be able to be uploaded until I fix that issue
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, I'm pretty busy
<LaserJock> I really can't guarantee anything at this point
<Burgwork> no worries
<LaserJock> it's just hard to tell
<LaserJock> if it was an easy package I'd so fine
<LaserJock> but I have a tendency to underestimate time commitments and then I get in trouble
<LaserJock> and I really would like to work on the packaging guide before the doc freeze :-)
<LaserJock> I wouldn't mind reviewing or giving tips for somebody here who wants to get their feet wet though ;-)
<Burgwork> sounds good
<Burgwork> this is a server, so it might be fun
<LaserJock> I'd put it out on -motu perhaps, sometimes MOTU Hopefuls are looking for a package to do
<Burgwork> will do
<LaserJock> looks like it would be a good addition to Edubuntu
<Burgwork> wait until you see the language it is written in ;)
<LaserJock> what?
<Burgwork> tcl
<Burgwork> on top of aolserver
<LaserJock> oh my
<Burgwork> indeed
<LaserJock> ogra: scribus seems to be fixed with latest updates, easy fix :-)
<Burgundavia> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/linux_terminal_server
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: cool
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<toosa> hi !
<toosa> i still can connect to HP laserjet 1000, is that any clue or documents for solving this problem ?
<juliux> morning
<toosa> afternoon :)
<RichEd> greetz
<RichEd> juliux: you were asking about Edgy CDs release ?
<juliux> RichEd, yes
<RichEd> <RichEd> marilize: In your past experience, what is the approximate time between release of a new version by the technical team and CD's being pressed & printed and ready to ship ?
<RichEd> <marilize> 2-3 weeks
<juliux> RichEd, thxs
<juliux> RichEd, i think we have in germany a sponsor for edgy dvds ;)
<juliux> RichEd, edubuntu only
<RichEd> So that's to get to shipit. Add 2 weeks minimum to get to you. I checked with JaneW last night, and there is a wait period for emergency fixes prior to pressing..
<RichEd> But the image will be on line ready for download on release day. So you can burn yourself.
<toosa> Hi RichEd :)
<RichEd> note that ogra has got the image down to CD side.
<RichEd> toosa !
<toosa> the seminar is delayed :(
<juliux> RichEd, i think we will burn dvds not cds
<RichEd> Because there is a big debate of CD vd DVS in school equipment ...
<RichEd> DVD  :P
<toosa> but i think it is good also, hope that the CDs will arrive before that.
<toosa> brb
<juliux> RichEd, we will have professional dvds and selfmade cds ,)
<RichEd> toosa: I checked with Mariliize (Shipit) if you have a rush need for CD's next time, you need to add comments on the web application ... if the justificatin is good, they upgrade the request from snail mail to courier
<RichEd> Cool juliux :) We are busy with 1 year planning for divisions. I need to drill down into specifics next week. Can you & I have a .ge chat some time then ?
<juliux> RichEd, a .ge chat ???
<RichEd> .ch sorry ... chermany, not georgia :)
<toosa> I did
<juliux> RichEd, germany is .de ;)
* RichEd slaps himself
<RichEd> midnight meetings are not good for the brain
<RichEd> good toosa :)
<RichEd> And same comment to you, re indonesia ... Without the country abbreviation mistakes.
<RichEd> If we can get your territories onto the high level plan, with apropriate time schedules, I can work towards focused support & plan a visit in the next 12 moths to conincide with an apropriate event or meeting..
<juliux> RichEd, sure we can have .de meeting ;)
<juliux> RichEd, its up to you, you are the busy men 
<RichEd> Great. I'll put it in as an action: "Discuss territory with Education Community Lead to plan 1 year outlook."
<juliux> RichEd, the best thing is if we can do it this week or after the 10.11
<juliux> RichEd, the best thing is if we can do it this week or after the 10.9
<juliux> RichEd, because i am working next weekend and then i move into my flat
<RichEd> After the 10 Sept is better ... you suggest a date & time. I'll book it in my calendar now, and then will email you a few days before.
<RichEd> I'll ask you a few homework questions ... background to yourself, territory & events upcoming ... nothing too heavy.
<juliux> RichEd, 12.11 befor the cc meeting ??
<cbx33> Interrogation !!!
<RichEd> cee bee ex thirsty three !
<cbx33> heeyyy Mr RichEd dude !
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> nooooo double the interrogation 1
<cbx33> phew
<RichEd> damn adsl reset ... grumble
<juliux> RichEd, befor the cc meeting is not good?
<cbx33> :D - New UbuntuSounds should be in Knot-3 :D
<RichEd> Who else here is on ADSL ? Does your provider reset you once a day ? 4-kin annoying
<cbx33> RichEd: nope
<cbx33> not that I know of
<juliux> RichEd, yes german telecom disconnect you every 24h
<juliux> RichEd, and here you get an new ip address
<RichEd> Our telco does it (1) to check bandwidth capping limits, and (2) to prevent you from hosting servers
<RichEd> juliux: same here = point (2)
* cbx33 is allowed to host a server
<cbx33> sorry guys that sux :p
<RichEd> but WHY do they need to do it at 9:15 am, peak work time !
* RichEd will phone to cr@p on someone there and not be frustrated in the channel
<cbx33> heh
<RichEd> okay juliux ... back to the meeting
<cbx33> you can vent here RichEd we all do it from time to time :p
<juliux> RichEd, oh here it is 24h after your login so if you login at 2:00 the disconnect you at 2:00
<RichEd> Good point. Maybe I should disconnect voluntarily at 10:00 pm tongiht to see if it shifts the time.
<RichEd> juliux: We're now on 31/09 August. You suggested "12.11 befor the cc meeting " That's November ... is that what you meant ?
<juliux> RichEd, i mean 12.9 sorry
<RichEd> That's 2 weeks ago :) lets use letters instead of numbers ... 12 Sept ?
<juliux> ja 12 Sept
<RichEd> Thanks.
<RichEd> Will confirm via email today.
<juliux> ok
<juliux> but i dont know the time for cc meeting
<RichEd> cbx33: are you willing to help me with a UK territory plan ?
<cbx33> RichEd: definitely
<RichEd> juliux: we can fix a time closer to the day.
<juliux> RichEd, time is up to you, i hope i have internet on my new flat, if not i am in my old one ;)
<cbx33> RichEd: what did you have in mind
<juliux> cbx33, that is a good point 
<RichEd> cbx33: let's go off to a window ... don't want to repeat it all here again ... Juliux, I'll email you and cbx33 with outline begore the end of the day
<juliux> RichEd, thxs
<RichEd> before ... not begore
<cbx33> ok sure
<cbx33> phew I didn't know what begore meant :p
<RichEd> hi pips ... email sent as promised :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: :)
<cbx33> RichEd: what do you think the chances are of us having some hardware at BETT?
<cbx33> if we manage to hijack the FSF stand
<RichEd> hi highvoltage ...
<RichEd> cbx33: one step at a time :) for each of my hundred legs ... or else I will fall over :)
<cbx33> sorry RichEd, i got over excited again
* RichEd does a prat fall to demonstrate
<RichEd> cbx33: Or else I forget things, like get around to pressing send on the emails I compose ... pips1 & highvoltage ... web site email now actually sent :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> my deepest apologies RichEd 
<pips1> Hi RichEd, got your mail, thanks
<RichEd> pips1: So for the next week or so, just dig around the education site areas and form some opinions ideas etc. We'll have a Planning & Revision meeting within the next 2 weeks. Can discuss at the next #edubuntu meeting to see who wants to participate.
<RichEd> Jono Bacon will be on board by then.
<RichEd> Thanks for your offer to help. We all appreciate it.
<pips1> np
<cbx33> RichEd: how much involvement with edubutu do you see Jono having?
<pips1> I'll try to research what is out there already, sites related to education and floss... we can link to good resources, and I need to get an idea what would suit our site best content-wise, besides the obvious stuff
<RichEd> my speculation: Jono is Community for Canonical. We are a significant focus community. We are getting him involved as he starts, before he is swamped. He has a personal passion for Education.
* ogra just freed up 10-20 M on the CDs
<cbx33> ogra: did you hear I could save 2 Mb :p
<ogra> great
<cbx33> RichEd: excellent, I've spoken to him quite a few times
<RichEd> So, cbx33, I would be disappointed with anything less than 20% of his time & headspace.
<ogra> i just dropped our compiler environment :/
<willvdl> hey there. what you ditching?
<cbx33> ogra: the startup sounds....
<ogra> ah, cool !
<cbx33> how hard to make the system play oggs
<cbx33> and not bloody wavs !
<ogra> not at all 
<ogra> ogg wourks out of the box in every *buntu
<cbx33> my sounds are like 300Kb
<cbx33> is it possible to talk to someone about this
<ogra> cool
<cbx33> then we could switch all sounds to ogg
<ogra> post to ubuntu-devel
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> will do
<ogra> so it can get discussed
<ogra> and seb128 should be able to tell you if the gnome backend does it out of the box
<ogra> i know all gstreamer apps can play ogg ...
<ogra> but i'm not sure the system sounds are switched to gstreamer yet
<RichEd> pips1: Great. Form your best opinion. We add to that: 1) Planning Objectives 2) Will's document study (includes case studies and advocacy via Pete) 3) Our community input 4) Jono comunity input & fit with Ubuntu
<ogra> cbx33, i meant the mailing list
<ogra> not the channel :)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> I'll compose a post
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> stupid me! 
<ogra> the air is burning in -devel atm ... 
<ogra> all are busy with the CD stuff
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> my new sounds should be on knot 3
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> so its probalbly not the best time to come up with it there ...
<ogra> cool
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> lets see if we can get SCP in there as well ;)
<cbx33> ogra: I should hopefully have something to show for SCP today on the pessulus side
<cbx33> ogra: that'd be cool
<RichEd> pips1: And finally, I have plans to drill into 6 territories with local community assistance. Region overview, (Ed)ubuntu success, conferences, projects ... which will also move into a regular news update.
<pips1> RichEd so Will (aka willvdl ?) preparing a document? 
<cbx33> ogra: will you have anytime later for SCP
<ogra> well, we need to pass pitti ... and i know i did some quick hacks he doesnt like ... so i need to go over the code beforwe
<pips1> RichEd re 6 territories sounds great
<cbx33> ogra: oh I thought you were referring to my code 
<cbx33> I saw the meeting log 
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> where is my hug !!!!
<RichEd> will has already done a high level ... it is a formalised approach to what we need for marketing ... paper & electronic ... audience and objective
<ogra> cbx33, you can look yourself, if you find any os.system calls etc
<willvdl> pipsl: bit more high level than that
<cbx33> ogra: sure I'll check that out
<ogra> they need to be replaced with stuff from subprocess
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> pessulus is so confusing
<ogra> subprocess has a very good documentation on how to replace that ...
<cbx33> It's because it's all properly written
<ogra> you can just copy and paste from it ;)
<cbx33> ogra: I have implemented subprocess before
<pips1> willvdl: it's actually pips1 <-- with number '1' rather than letter 'L' ;-) 
<cbx33> ogra: I'll have about 3 hours today to work on it
<ogra> for quick hacked code where i want to see the result immediately i often do that ... (using system or os.popen) but its totally not appropriate for production code
<willvdl> when I get back I can get cracking on using the iCommunity as a basis for templates, studies etc.
<willvdl> pips1: thanks :)
<cbx33> ogra: sure I see
<pips1> willvdl: i would have preferred pips really but it was taken already ;-)
<cbx33> ogra: the pessulus code requires the use of goption
<RichEd> pips1: f.y.i. Germany (Juliux ) + UK (cbx33) + Philippines + (jsgotangco) + Indonesia (Toosa) + Latin America (mhz) + China & SE Asia (Amy Jiang) + Africa (Will)
<cbx33> which is totally undocumented in python
<cbx33> and very minimal in C
<cbx33> which is odd as gnome adopted it as a replacement to popt
<RichEd> which makes lucky number 7 :)
<pips1> so RichEd, can you say more about the 6 territories now, or will you do that in an official meeting?
<ogra> goption ? 
<ogra> what for ? 
<cbx33> handling the command line options
<cbx33> vuntz requested I use it
<ogra> well
<ogra> for the SCP calls ? 
<cbx33> there being no actual support in the for command line options as it is
<pips1> RichEd: ah, sorry didn't see your country listing ;-D
<ogra> does he know SCP is python ? 
<cbx33> so I'm writing it from scratch
<cbx33> I believe so
<ogra> oh, you mean you need to patch pessulus
<cbx33> ogra: no it's so we can do
<cbx33> pessulus --key blah:blah:/home/pete/blah
<cbx33> yesh
<ogra> ah
<ogra> k
<cbx33> which I'm a little at a loss on....but I think I'm getting there
<ogra> thats different ... i thought he wanted you to use goption in SCP
<ogra> that would be silly
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> we don;t need command lien options yet
<ogra> just look at code that uses it ;)
<cbx33> I couldn't actually compile pessulus so I had to hack it up a bit
<RichEd> pips1: very simple for now ... in the week of 11-15 september, the plan is for me to spend an hour with each of the above people, mapping out the territory, very high level view ... existing projects, nice stories, upcoming events ... etc.
<cbx33> ogra: easier said than done
<pips1> RichEd: I haven't met Toosa and Amy Jiang yet, and I only met willvdl now :-)
<cbx33> I havn't really found much
<RichEd> And we will then keep this view updated on a regular reportback basis. monthly report into #edubuntu meeting, add news to newsletter, and update web site region
<pips1> RichEd: by "meet" I meant here on IRC
<ogra> cbx33, apt-get source gnome-session
<RichEd> We'll try to develop a region template, so if other community people are keen, they can take a lead for their own locality
<ogra> haha
<ogra> nautilus-2.15.91/ChangeLog:     Convert from popt to goption.
<cbx33> is that in python
<ogra> nope
<RichEd> The initial 6 are chosen from the keen participants on this channel ... jsgotangco, mhz, cbx33, juliux
<RichEd> And Will is official Africa Canonical Employee ...
<cbx33> ogra: ok
<RichEd> And AmyJ is SE Asia Canonical OEM representative 
<ogra> heh, edubuntu OEM would be funny
<RichEd> China is interesting, the numbers are just of such a different order of scale :) When someone talks about 400,000 Ubuntu OEM desktops already delivered it is a bit numbing.
<ogra> "get your preinstalled classroom server now !"
<RichEd> wun size fit all ! leady to use !
<cbx33> ogra: so later part of today....ie about 16:00 UTC
<cbx33> would you have a little SCP time?
<cbx33> just for discussion
<ogra> thats tight ... we have dev meeting at 15:00
<cbx33> what about now?
<ogra> so i might be busy there still at 16:00
* RichEd works on loose ends
<RichEd> cbx33: where did you mention the BETT FSS stand ... in channel or email ...
<cbx33> hmm....FSF in channel I think
<RichEd> contact details for anyone on hand ?
<cbx33> I'll have a look
<cbx33> hang on
<RichEd> tx
<pips1> so to summarize, we will have at least a dozen regular contributers to the website! great!
<pips1> 7 regions, ogra, rodarvus, RichEd, jono and me
<pips1> :-)
<cbx33> pips1: cool
<RichEd> good ... nothing keeps interest up in the end audience as much as a regular site update, and news push
<cbx33> RichEd: totally
<pips1> yep
<RichEd> By this I mean the education audience in the wings, lurking and observing, waiting to jump in when they feel ready.
<pips1> i hope we can get a nice buzz going, rather than just some static info
<RichEd> And human news makes them feel warm & fuzzy, and activity makes them feel confident.
<cbx33> ahhh warm and fuzzy !
<cbx33> :p
<pips1> with Drupal as WCMS we really have the right to to build a great community website... besides the regular content (welcome, about, screenshots, download, ...) we can add lots of fun dynamic stuff: a.) news items with commenting (blog-like), b.) community discussion and help (forum-like), c.) social bookmarking (i.e. tagging and commenting links), and d.) possibly discussing and even rating (?) educational applications
<toosa> I need to go home ... bye folks :) see u tom, thx RichEd.
<pips1> s/right/right tool/
<RichEd> toosa ... will send you an email ...
<toosa> thanks RichEd
<RichEd> pips1: b) and d) 100's ... need to get community humming in a framework we manage !
<RichEd> peer support ... ( not at the technical level ... that makes ogra edgy ;) but biology teachers helping biology teachers with content and application ragtings
<RichEd> ragtings = tagged ratings ;P
<ogra> peer support is fine as long as a knowing person observes it
<pips1> a) and c) is stuff that the core website contributers can *push*. b) and d) is about community interaction
<ogra> (on a tech level)
<RichEd> yay ! ogra and I are on the same virtual page !
<cbx33> hehe
<RichEd> pips1: and we want to get our site listed on drupal as a show site
<cbx33> RichEd: think this is a good time to think about Live Support?  hahehahahaha
<pips1> ogra: re knowing person observing: I agree. it problematic to scale that well, though
<cbx33> RichEd: nice idea
<ogra> pips1, yes, sadly
<RichEd> techncial will be a peer-phase 2 ... we can start with peer-content advisory ... after all, they are the experts there
<RichEd> when we win content advisory community energy, technically minded people will float to the top of our attention
<RichEd> so 1) increase the contributor audience 2) filter the bigger ponf
<RichEd> easier tham skilling up a limited resource pool
<RichEd> *bigger pond
<RichEd> cbx33: this is a good time to send me FSF stand info ... before it falls out the back of my head !
<pips1> ogra: drupal has features / tools that help (comments can be reviewed first, spam protection, etc) ... but in the end it's about people contributing their time and knowledge. But we aren't there yet. I'd be very happy if we get a nice group that contribute regularly. :-)
<cbx33> I'm trying to find the contact info
<cbx33> don't worry I won;t let you forget
<cbx33> pips1: I'd be interested in that
<cbx33> oh wait...I'm already on the list
<cbx33> :p
<pips1> cbx33: :)
<pips1> hmm, RichEd you are making my little grey braincells go to work ;-)
<cbx33> I think my braincells are woring too much
<cbx33> I have to goto the doctor :(
<pips1> edubuntu, at the moment, is primarily providing a technical solution, i.e. a toolbox, rather than content...
* RichEd is so happy for all of us ... another idle brain harnessed & supercharged for the cause
<cbx33> I hope the doctor doesn't way stop working as much as I do
<cbx33> my problem is as soon as I'm not "actively" doing anything......
<pips1> so RichEd, how do you see that we will initially get the peer-content advisory going?
<cbx33> like eating, working on the computer.
<RichEd> pips1: edubuntu must provide a technical solution. edubuntu must enable content. in that order, but both significant part of the solution
<cbx33> I am likely to fall asleep
<cbx33> watching a film....that I really want to watch.....50/50 chance I'll be asleep by half way through
<cbx33> I can even fall asleeep while talking to someone while catching a lift in their car
<RichEd> pips1: let me give you a great article by jono ... not a direct answer to you, but to show you that we have the right people to brainstorm & guide ...
<pips1> I have seen some sites with educational "recipies", i.e. "curriculum grains"...
<cbx33> I have fallen asleep walking home once
<RichEd> funny. walking home once is normally enough. no wonder you are tired.
<ogra> cbx33, so better drive by car then you can sit while sleeping :)
<pips1> cbx33: you sound people i witnessed on my visit in Japan: falling asleep on an evelator ride !! 
<cbx33> I fell asleep whilst standing up the other day
<cbx33> :(
<pips1> cbx33 take it easy...
<cbx33> I can't take it easy
<cbx33> I have to get out of this job it's killing me
<cbx33> so I'm expanding my skill set by all my ubuntu work
<cbx33> I don;t feel tired much at all !
<cbx33> I think ogra is trying to get me killed :p
<pips1> cbx33: you are on overdrive, sir
<pips1> by the sound of it
<RichEd> pips1: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=687 <- chew on that for a bit. I need to get plan done for the ubermeister ! And my sarcy over-tired comments here are starting to annoy even me.
<cbx33> it was happening way before I started working on ubuntu though
* pips1 looks up sarcy
<cbx33> sarcastic
<cbx33> i presume RichEd ?
<pips1> saucy ?
<pips1> :)
<RichEd> yes. quite. sarcastic. brain spits out weak humour when tired.
<pips1> ah, sarky!
<pips1> I just love leo.org
<cbx33> RichEd: if your'e interested and ever have time
<cbx33> http://linuxgazette.net/121/savage.html
<cbx33> my tired and weak humour from working with M$ !
<RichEd> Hello surge ...  I see you're .za on Vodacom 3g ... I'm in Cape Town.
* RichEd is tired ... hello highvoltage
<surge> RichEd: i'm highvoltage logged in locally, my connection here is too weak to log into my server in newlands :)
<surge> hi RichEd :)
<cbx33> surge: did you manage to find out if you can use paypal
<RichEd> So is surge appropriate then ? Shouldn't it be trickle ?
<surge> cbx33: no, we can't :)
<cbx33> awww
<surge> meant :( instead of :)
<surge> cbx33: i can still send it to you, we can see how it works there ten we can work something out
<cbx33> surge: can you buy just SIM cards over there
<surge> yep
<surge> they cost about R2 :)
<cbx33> if I bought a SIM
<cbx33> coud I register it
<surge> register?
<cbx33> well...how do you add money to it?
<surge> so that it's in your name?
<cbx33> over the net?
<cbx33> yes
<surge> here, you usually buy a pre-paid voucher and you scratch off a number, then enter that into the phone
<cbx33> ah....
<surge> you can also transfer money into your account with on-line banking
<cbx33> ok so reckon I could do that from here?
<surge> but i think you can only use the latter if you have a .za bank account
<pips1> RichEd: jono's post: good one. I had read it after his engagement was announced...
<cbx33> surge: ok
<pips1> surge: great nick! :-D
<pips1> oops
<pips1> trickle is gone again
<pips1> :)
<highvoltage> pips1: thanks, too bad it's registered to someone else :)
<pips1> highvoltage: heh
<RichEd> pips1: So if we can say to teachers, why use a PC & Net etc. to teach just subject silos. Use this new world to teach thinking and collaboration tools which apply to life in the global vilage.
<RichEd> tools & skills (I meant to say)
<RichEd> And to do that, everybody needs to participate, not just consume.
<pips1> good point!
<RichEd> Help us to help you .... etc.
<pips1> hmm wikipedia-collaboration rather than learning-book-content-by-heart
<pips1> RichEd: I like that thought about collaboration / participation. I think I'll now want to look at what edubuntu provides from that angle... hmm
<RichEd> pips1: look at this while you have a chance ... you can't teach like this with traditional tools
<pips1> ... considering that only a certain percentage (which percentage?) of pupils / students will be doing mostly technical things in their later lives
<RichEd> http://lamsfoundation.org/
<RichEd> LAMS is a revolutionary new tool for designing, managing and delivering online collaborative learning activities. It provides teachers with a highly intuitive visual authoring environment for creating sequences of learning activities. These activities can include a range of individual tasks, small group work and whole class activities based on both content and collaboration. Click here for an interactive demonstration of LAMS.
<RichEd> This is a key partner on the list for me to work with, on instruction from Mark.
<RichEd> There is already a Shuttleworth Foundation Relationship with the founder.
<pips1> LAMS seems to be quite big i.e. successful in the US? in Switzerland, from the floss online learning tools, it's Moodle...
<cbx33> LAMS isn't free isit ?
<RichEd> So, the reason I meation it, is that "we do not need to build" the tools. We need to enable people to use them.
<RichEd> So sabdfl wants us to have a seamless relationship & present a seamless experience.
<RichEd> cbx33: indeed
<pips1> LAMS is a web service (server app), right?
<RichEd> pips1: yes, moodle content in a learning process ... let me expand
<RichEd> a teacher books out a LAMS package against her class:
<RichEd> step 1: kids must load moodle links and read up
<pips1> I'm quite interested in the area "in-between" web apps and desktop apps, i.e. seamless integration
<RichEd> step 2: when 75% of the kids have done the reading, it kick off a note to the teacher to start a class discussion
<RichEd> step 3: when the discussion is complete, the kids move onto a project, which they then submit
<RichEd> step 3: when 75% of the kids have submitted their projects, they review
<RichEd> something like that ...
* pips1 visits the LAMS site
<RichEd> Now how much richer learning experience it that, than your old teacher waffling up at the blackboard :)
<pips1> cbx33: Is LAMS free? When will it be freely available?
<pips1> Yes. The LAMS software was released as "open source software" (using the GPL) in late February 2005. From this time onwards, anyone who wishes to take the publicly available software source code, and then compile it, install it, configure it and maintain it can use LAMS without incurring any fees. For many users, it may be more cost effective to have LAMS International (the LAMS services and support company) provide support services to handle all of thi
<pips1> s for a modest fee, but this decision is up to each potential user  there is no compulsion to pay anything for using LAMS if you abide by the requirements of the GPL (the LAMS open source software license).
<pips1> http://lamsfoundation.org/faq/02.html
<pips1> (sorry for the paste flood)
<pips1> hey cbx33 since you are working on SCP, you should definitely check out this LAMS-Moodle integration stuff... there are some flash-screencasts here http://fraser.typepad.com/moodle/2005/11/lams_moodle.html (<-- check out links 3&4, they are in English)
<pips1> interesting too http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=24187
<pips1> ^^^ Moodle's founder Martin Dougiamas about the LAMS-Moodle integration..
<cbx33> pips1: I tried to find LAMS to install
<pips1> and?
<pips1> no luck so far?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I couldn't find it anywhere
<RichEd> pips1: commercial model above is the same as Canonical
<pips1> RichEd: well, I would be interested to learn the exact business model of Canonical ;-)
<pips1> but basically, services, certifications ... and ?
<RichEd> pips1: simple version ... all of the products are free ... to get ... to use ... 
<RichEd> if you can manage on your own ... you will never pay us for anything
<pips1> cbx33: the LAMS website talks about LAMS 2.0 being in Alpha and available from the public CVS...
<RichEd> if you want specialised attention, you will need to pay for it
<cbx33> RichEd: ah ok
<RichEd> thats the backbone of the model
<RichEd> specialised attention may be: server support 24x7
<RichEd> or specialised attention may be: customise ubuntu to run on my government sponsored h/w 
<RichEd> or specialised attention may be: customise ubuntu to provide a seamless country wide schools network, with WAN, LAN, content network integrated install, and our own selected applications and content links
<juliux> wb ogra 
<pips1> cbx33: ah LAMS 2.0 was declared Beta1 as of Juli 1st 2006, get it here http://wiki.lamsfoundation.org/display/lams/Building+LAMS
<RichEd> Okay ... regarding LAMS ... don't get hung up on it from my prompting. I put it forwards as an example of an external tool / content, with a relationship to us. It's not a given, or a compulsory ... more a food for thought as a principle demonstration.
<pips1> right
<ogra> somebody should package it ;)
<ogra> i'll see if i can do that after feature freeze for universe at least
<cbx33> ogra: hehehe
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<pips1> I'm going to get some food, was good to talk, cu l8r!
<rodarvus> hi cbx33 
<rodarvus> good morning
<cbx33> rodarvus: did you want me?
<rodarvus> I just wanted to tell you I only saw your comment on gaim a few hours later, I'm sorry
<cbx33> ah
<rodarvus> were you able to figure it out?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I think so
<cbx33> I have to patch pessulus now
<rodarvus> ahn, you talked with vuntz?
<cbx33> yes
<RichEd> erm ... who knows how to edit the evolution email dictionary ? added a misspelt work by mistake ... want to remove it
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> rodarvus, do you know if every user in edubuntu has a mandatory gconf source?
<rodarvus> not sure if I undestood you, but
<rodarvus> every user has personal gconf keys created, in the first time any application using gconf (usually a GNOME app) requests or sets a gconf key
<cbx33> by default, there's only one central mandatory source (and every user has his own non-mandatory settings)
<cbx33> the question is
<cbx33> does each user have the ability to have mandatory keys set
<cbx33> or is it just a central mandatory key source?
<cbx33> maybe I'm not explaining it right rodarvus 
<cbx33> ogra, do we have a central mandatory key source?
<cbx33> or can you set mandatory keys for each user?
<cbx33> in gconf
<rodarvus> cbx33, if I understand your question correcly (which I'm not sure I do) - I think you can't have gconf mandatory keys set per users
<rodarvus> at least I couldn't find any reference to this in /etc/gconf/
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so we are the default 
<rodarvus> better to ask a gconf expert, though
<cbx33> ok
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hey sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Morning cbx33 
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<sbalneav> Hey, I vote for skipping the /etc/locale.alias step
<ogra> it was never intended to be used where you put it ;)
<ogra> the client has a /etc/locale.alias as well ... ldm should translate it ... leave that part to me :)
<ogra> the user shall never see real locale names 
<ogra> as in gdm there should only be a list of meaningful country names
<ogra> but the transalting bit should happen while the list in the ui is populated 
<sbalneav> AH, ok, then just hack that bit out of the script then.
<ogra> it needs some pitti friendly changes aynway
<sbalneav> Do you like the idea of jost opening the socket and getting all the info?  I think it makes a lot more sense than having to do the "getcfg BLAH" suff.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> we dont need special commands or anything
<ogra> just spit out the list 
<sbalneav> Say, BTW, when you get the chance, send me the changes you and pitti made to ltspfs[d]  and I'll commit them to upstream.
<ogra> right 
<sbalneav> exactly.
<ogra> i kept it in a dpatch in the package so its separate anyway
<ogra> easy to apply upstream etc :)
<sbalneav> ogra: so, where are we at?  Good progress being made?  It seems we're on track, but I'm not sure of the details of Canonical's internal schedule.
<ogra> sbalneav, try to use the subprocess module in python instead of os.popen btw that will make pitti happy :)
<ogra> well, i have the ldm stuff on the plate, but am a bit stuck because of the cd images
<ogra> i have to merge/review a ton of patches from vagrant ...
<ogra> (that will at least take a full workday)
<ogra> i have to finish the installer piece that creates the dhcp setup ...
<ogra> (there i'm lagging a bit)
<ogra> then we only need the swapserver stuff and are done ...
<ogra> i hope i find some time to review the SCP bits and get willowng to main 
<ogra> but mdz wanted me to handle that as low prioritized as possible ...
<sbalneav> OK, The installer and LDM pieces I'll leave to you.  I'll ping rodarvus today, and see what I can do to help him with the swap server.
<ogra> oh, and theer are a bunch of fixes i still need to make 
<cbx33> ogra, am sorting out pessulus as we speak
<ogra> like avoiding the fade on logut
<ogra> and the hibernate/suspend options
<gotama>  I have 64-bit PC (AMD64) with edubuntu installed. How do I install java runtime enviroment in firefox?
<Petaris> gotama: you have to use a chroot or a program like nspluginwrapper
<Petaris> see here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=160318&page=2&highlight=32-bit+chroot
<cbx33> ogra, what version of gnome will be in edgy?
<cbx33> is it the 2.11.4 that is in there currently?
<jsgotangco> errrr
<jsgotangco> dapper is 2.14.3 ;)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its 2.16 ;)
* jsgotangco shows cbx33 the gnome.org website
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 is confused, but dont worry about it
<jsgotangco> gnome's versioning is similar to the kernel
<jsgotangco> but also uses 6 month release cycles that why ubuntu is always in sync
<cbx33> right
<jsgotangco> an ubuntu development version always gets to use a development version of gnome as well
<tavienu> I have Ubuntu installed can I install edubuntu without messing around with my current config?
<sbalneav> tavienu: aptitude edubuntu-desktop will convert a Ubuntu server into an Edubuntu server.
<tavienu> ty
<RichEd> jsgotangco: hello ?
<pips1> RichEd: I wikified bits from our conversation earlier: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSiteCommunityContent
<tavienu>  sudo aptitude edubuntu-desktop
<tavienu> Password:
<tavienu> Unknown command "edubuntu-desktop"
<RichEd> hi pips1 loading page ...
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hi
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I phoned Mindset today and chatted to my contact from NEPAD
<RichEd> You should have my intro email. He is very intersted in sharing learnings.
<RichEd> As per the email, no rush or pressure or expectations on either side.
<jsgotangco> thanks
<RichEd> Just consider him as a person you can ask for help and guidance.
<jsgotangco> ok much appreciated
<jsgotangco> i start working with AFI on monday
<RichEd> I'll stay out of it unless you direct a request to me ... okay :)
<jsgotangco> ok reading through the email now
<RichEd> pips1: great start thanks ... keep hacking ... and the formalisation will catch up in the next 2-3 weeks ... thanks again !
<pips1> RichEd: do you personally like working in a wiki, drafting stuff, ...?  
<RichEd> jsgotangco: final note ... Mindset are 70% focused on South Africa and 30% rest of Africa. Philippines will be an exciting alternative to think about as a change from our usual African constraints.
<sbalneav> tavienu: Sorry, aptitude install edubuntu-desktop
<sbalneav> Either that, or you can use synaptic to install it.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: it would probably need a new mindset as well because they are culturally very different
<RichEd> Yes, and that is what makes it exciting. Like Edward de Bono solution. Get off topic, come back gto your pronem, and then the outlook & solution is fresh.
<RichEd> *come back to your problem
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<jsgotangco> interesting so NEPAD will be exclusively driven by FOSS?
<jsgotangco> i mean the eSchools project
<jsgotangco> ahh if it makes sense with local support
<jsgotangco> that's a sensible idea
<RichEd> yes ... jsgotangco: last deduction, not first statement ... the chicken and egg situation as usual
<RichEd> 1> we don't use FOSS becuase there is no vendor support (H/W VAR or training)
<RichEd> 2>  there is no vendor support (H/W VAR or training) FOSS becuase we don't use it
<RichEd> round and round we go ... long story regarding our approach wth HP ... that's why we have Will on board
<ogra> he will compensate all the missing vendor wupport ? wow ! :)
<RichEd> I'm happy to have a NEPAD chat at some stage, but not of too much relevance now ... when we make progres, Will can feedback to all in edubuntu meeting
<ogra> *support
* RichEd shows ogra will's superman cape ... blue tights ... and red underpants
<ogra> hehe
* ogra guesses thats more than an 8h/day job :)
<RichEd> ogra: we need to chat about Edulinux (was Eurolinux) at some stage ... can we book a block next week ... perhaps at our core meeting whcih *must* take place again next week
<RichEd> *which
<RichEd> let me know when you are ready for a mail forward from silbs ... I don't want to send when it is just going to get lost in a pressure time.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> send it today or tomorrow, as you like 
* RichEd assumes that there is some time, some day, some where which is maybe less pressure time
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> i was at a eurolinux meetingin saarburg which was very odd
<ogra> they couldnt agree on a minimal featureset
<ogra> it was dropped then afaik ...
<ogra> so that smells like the revival
<RichEd> the kick-off meeting is 'sposed to be in Poland in October .... one or both of us must attend ... pro'lly both
<ogra> fine with me (even my GF will slay me )
<RichEd> there is some training requirement due when we meet ... but is also vague ...
<RichEd> i'll wrap the mails into some sense tomorrow ... and get it to your for weekend digestion ...
* ogra just promised her that he'll have some spare time for her after release
<ogra> thats great, thanks
<RichEd> well, bring her to poland :)
<ogra> doesnt work ... we ahve a very ill old dog that needs someone around all the time ...
<RichEd> I assume that the meet will be much less pressure than an Ubuntu meet. Some actual time off.
<ogra> we cant got together anywhere at
<ogra> m
<RichEd> pity :(
<ogra> yep ...
<RichEd> bye for the day ... need some time away from the screen and will be back again in very early morning
<cbx33> :) w00t
<cbx33> just been kite flying cleared my head
<cbx33> should be good for hacking up pesulus tomorrow
<cbx33> taking an evening off today
<cbx33> but I'll be back EARLY tomorow
<Burgwork> sounds good
<Burgwork> ogra, it would be nice if GNOME could implement a gconf key called "low performance". Then various things could check that key, and if set, would turn off things like fading and GL screensavers. Maybe throttle beagle, etc.
<cbx33> nice idea Burgwork 
<Burgwork> we would love it here as well
<LaserJock> ogra: ping?
<EliasChalk> hello to everybody
<LaserJock> cbx33: have you tried willowng at all?
<cbx33> LaserJock, no
<cbx33> is it working now?
<EliasChalk> Good Bye
<LaserJock> alrighty then
<cbx33> :S
<mhz> hi all
<LaserJock> hi mhz
<highvoltage> hi mhz and LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage 
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> the linneighborhood package seems to have no binary
<mhz> th1a: hey there
<mhz> th1a: I was in a conference (from Chilean Gov people working on education areas) today
<mhz> and they discussed about 'learning objects' cration
<mhz> creation
<LaserJock> Amaranth!
<th1a> hi mhz
<Amaranth> Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. ;)
<th1a> mhz:  I try to avoid "learning objects..."
<mhz> Amaranth: "i see dead people"
<mhz> th1a: why?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: got a minute?
<Burgwork> Amaranth, long time no see
<Amaranth> LaserJock: sort of
<mhz> LaserJock: Amaranth was on a long party :D
<th1a> mhz:  Trying to reduce learning to something you can cram between XML pointy brackets is tough.
<mhz> yup
<th1a> mhz:  I'm not against it, I just fear it.
<Burgwork> th1a, is this blackboard patent something schooltool needs to be worried about?
<mhz> th1a: the thing is that some guys at local Gov have been working on a GUI to create L.O's and keep SCORM
<th1a> Not really... we aren't a learning management system.
<th1a> Burgwork:  There's also a patent on collecting attendance info over a wireless network.  Who knows how many patents a project like SchoolTool infringes upon?
<mhz> lol
<Burgwork> th1a, oh joy. Aren
<Burgwork> 't patetns fun?
<th1a> Burgwork:  Yes.  I really doubt Blackboard's patent will hold up.
* mhz has complained about the way patents work for at least the last 3 years
<th1a> But there is not much to do but root for Desire2Learn's lawyers.
<Burgwork> indeed
<th1a> The thing is that even if you accept that software patents aren't inherently bad, this still seems like a bad decision by the patent office.
<th1a> mhz:  Anyhow, in terms of funded work on SchoolTool, one of the few explicit orders I have from sabdfl is NOT to get into using SchoolTool as a content repository.
<th1a> If someone else writes an LMS on top of SchoolTool someday, I won't complain though.
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> because moodle already exists (as does .lrn, etc.)
<th1a> Sure.  That's also why interoperability is becoming super important for us.
<crimsun> I suppose I had better merge moodle, then.
<Burgwork> that US standard whose name I am forgetting
* mhz would prefer a Moin based LMS :)
<LaserJock> of course you would ;-)
<th1a> SIF
<mhz> it is just that Moin is incorporating vary good not-easy-to-defeat new features
<jaro> hello 
<jaro> question : I have edubuntu server on amd64 and thin clinets on old i386 machines
<jaro> how to install ltsp vith kernel for i386 on this server ?
<Burgwork> you can do different arches with servers and cleints
<jaro> how ?
<jaro> can i get only .deb with 386 anf install it on my server ?
<jaro> s/anf/and
<Burgwork> there is a howto on the wiki
<Burgwork> just a sec
<jaro> isee 
<Burgwork> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
<jaro> ok i need another machine to boot with i386 ed
<jaro> i try it tommorow 
<jaro> but what with machine with freebsd/slackware with xdmcp ?
<Burgwork> sorry?
<jaro> i have two machines on network with inxtalled xorg and using -query to get xwindow from server
<Burgwork> right, sorry, I have no idea bout that
<jaro> it works with previous intallation on slamd64
<jaro> but after upgrade to ubuntu ... 
<jaro> i try to configure gdm to work with xdmcp but no 
#edubuntu 2006-09-01
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> hello all
<LaserJock> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> pygi: how the Edubuntu Handbook going?
<pygi> LaserJock, bad
<pygi> sadly :-/
<LaserJock> yeah, kinda figured
<pygi> LaserJock, Hedge very busy with personal life, me the same + libburn stuff, none contributing
<pygi> but me and Hedge will probably write it, somehow
<mhz> LaserJock: re EHB, I will be able to upload what I have written about Edubuntu for lighter usage needs during this weekend
* mhz has been writing on MoiMoin Desktop Edition
<jsgotangco> hello
<LaserJock> hi
<jsgotangco> hey LaserJock
<jsgotangco> how's it going
<sbalneav> Hey dudes.
<sbalneav> Stuck at work :(
<LaserJock> hi
<sbalneav> Whew.  Finished.  I'll be back on in a bit once I get home.
<sbalneav> bbl
<cbx33> does dist-upgrade work for a dapper to edgy upgrade?
<highvoltage> works for me
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> I have to get my box ready so I can test my patches to pessulus
<cbx33> highvoltage, i'm guessing I should do an apt-get upgrade of the old system first?
<highvoltage> i just do a dist-upgrade
<highvoltage> i think that includes upgrade
<highvoltage> oooh, seems like ltsp-login-and-session-handling will very safely make it into dapper
<highvoltage> # PING!
<RichEd> shhhh highvoltage : I'm working ... catching up time lost to telkom ADSL motherfaqqers
* RichEd is not actually here at the moment
<cbx33> wooooh highvoltage 
<cbx33> my ears are hurting now
<cbx33> how do i force upgrades that have been kept back
<cbx33> I'm doing an upgrade from dapper to edgy
<cbx33> there are lots of python upgrades
<cbx33> and xserver upgrades
<cbx33> highvoltage: what did you do?
<highvoltage> i just manually said apt-get install packagenames
<highvoltage> copied and pasted it in
<highvoltage> but there's probably a better way :/
<sbalneav> Morning all
<rodarvus> hi sbalneav 
<pygi> hello
<sbalneav> Hey rodarvus!
<sbalneav> Morning pygi 
<pygi> sbalneav, hey hey:)
<sbalneav> pygi: You're the one doing libburn stuff, yes?
<pygi> sbalneav, indeed :P
<sbalneav> So, let me put a bug in your ear, nothing pressing at the moment, but a problem we'll want to solve down the road.
<pygi> sbalneav, oki, how may I help you? :)
<sbalneav> We're ultimately going to want to be able to put burners on thin clients.  
<sbalneav> Which means, implementing iscsi somehow within the new libburn.
<pygi> oh, yes, ogra was talking about network aware library built-in into LTSP
<sbalneav> Perfect.
<sbalneav> Like I say: off in the future.
<pygi> you do I was never working on something like that, right? :)
<pygi> you do know*
<sbalneav> Oh, I thought you were actually developing libburn.
<pygi> I am, I am lead developer :)
<sbalneav> Ah!
<sbalneav> OK
<pygi> Never messed with integrating library with LTSP or something
<ogra> pygi, so listen to your potential users then :)
<pygi> ogra, ofcourse, ofcourse :)
<ogra> we dont need a extra lib :) 
<pygi> what's the current plan? when is this scheduled for implementation?
<sbalneav> Hmm, I'm assuming the iSCSI protocol's documented somewhere.
<sbalneav> pygi: Well, I would assume AT LEAST a release after libburn gets into ubuntu, and becomes standard.
<pygi> sbalneav, ok, libburn will be in ubuntu in edgy :)
<sbalneav> heh, we'll then, I'd assume we'd TALK about it for edgy + 1 and see if it's possible.
<ogra> imagine something like the --public and ESPEAKER= options of esd for libburn :)
<sbalneav> s/we'll/well/
<pygi> sbalneav, it will be possible if you don't need dvd burning support, -tao, and multisession 
* pygi imagines :)
<pygi> anyway, you know you can  count on me for help
<ogra> you run libburn on both ends ... on the client (where the actual HW is) you run it with the --public option ... in the users session it runs with something like --actual-hw=12.13.14.15:1234
<sbalneav> What wouuld probably be a GOOD option, would be to develop a generic iSCSI library, independent of libburn, then just the wrapper bits to tie the two of them together.
<pygi> sbalneav, I'm willing to help and even provide home under libburn umbrella for such a iSCSI library
<pygi> ogra, hm, right
<sbalneav> Hmm.  Well, I'll do a bit of research this weekend, maybe, and try and wrap my (tiny, little) mind around the problem.
<pygi> sbalneav, great :)
<sbalneav> Being able to burn cdroms on thin clients would be schweeet.
* pygi nods
<ogra> yeps
<pygi> sbalneav, ogra , I assume we'll have to do some playing with libisofs as well then, or shall you make sure that the user provide iso image?
<sbalneav> That could be the starting point, and then improved upon later.
* pygi hopes he'll be able to attend next ubuntu dev. conference, so we could discuss it in more details
<sbalneav> pygi: Where are you located?
<ogra> well, we could mae sure the iso is created before burning ... as a poor mans solution (since it will eat /tmp space)
<pygi> sbalneav, Croatia, Europe
<pygi> ogra, that might be for first implementation, true
<pygi> for second, I would suggest we exploit libisofs efforts
<sbalneav> pygi: Hey, you know of a fellow who goes by the handle Neuralis?  Ivan Krystic (sp)?  He's done a lot of work for the children's hospital there
<pygi> sbalneav, I don't know him in person, but yes, I know him
<sbalneav> Good friend of ours.
<sbalneav> Smart.
<pygi> right ^_^
<sbalneav> Well, I think the next conference is going to be in Los Angeles somewhere (thats the rumour anyway).  Even if you can't make it in person, if you can stay up to some odd hours, we should be able to at least chat via some kind of voip magic.
<sbalneav> ogra: We going to be doing the teamspeak thing again?
<pygi> sbalneav, and when is the conf.?
<ogra> sbalneav, no idea
<sbalneav> In November at some point, I think
<ogra> it was quite disappointing last time i think
<sbalneav> Right.  I think we should just be able to pull in one or two people via asterisk and egika.
<pygi> ogra, perhaps, but if I could come that would at least allow us to discuss
<pygi> not that we can't discuss it this way also too :P
<sbalneav> sure
<sbalneav> http://linux-iscsi.sourceforge.net/
<sbalneav> iscsid
<sbalneav> hmm
<pygi> seems to be in active development
* pygi looks open-iscsi
<pygi> sbalneav, this seems weird
<pygi> linux-iscsi suggests open-iscsi for kernels .11+, but open-iscsi suggested they merged in 2005
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Confusing.
<pygi> yes, very :P
<pygi> now I gotta run, you sort out the confusion pls :P
<pygi> talk to you later :)
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Cheers
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | knot 2 is out !
<jsgotangco> yay I see knot 2 when i am drunk
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> shouldn't take more than an hour, downloading now
<TeePOG> good evening
<TeePOG> i need to ask a question, and I am busy reading the docs but I need the answer in the next 5 minutes: How do I use KDE as the default WM in the teminal server boot? I have kubuntu-desktop installed, and the LTSP boot works, but it goes only to Gnome
<ogra> TeePOG,  sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
<ogra> select kde there
<TeePOG> thanks very much ogra
<ogra> :)
<TeePOG> i need to demo the system to a dyed-in-the-wool *doze manager... i need the "sameness" factor which would sway him
<TeePOG> thanks ogra... it worked! would have been nicer to use kdm instead of gdm as well, but i can always change that later
<ogra> thin clients dont use gdm 
<ogra> its ldm ... and since kdm isnt capable of doing ssh tunnels you cant easily exchange them
<TeePOG> well, the login manager looks like gdm's login screen...
<TeePOG> ohhhhh ok
<TeePOG> nm then
<ogra> there is a theme dir ... you can make a theme that matches kdm more closely
<ogra> look in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
<TeePOG> oh ok
<TeePOG> thanks
<TeePOG> does anyone know whether the website www.getautomatix.com is down?
<Burgwork> TeePOG, no idea, but I recommend you use EasyUbuntu. It is much saner that automatix
<TeePOG> hmmm, i have had great success with Automatix, but my hand is forced by the website's apparent down-ness
<TeePOG> thanks Burgwork
<Burgwork> you are lucky then
<TeePOG> i don't install absolutely everything! just that I need Gaim 2.0 beta 3.1 now, as gaim 1.5 is crashing on access to MSN
<TeePOG> and the Swiftfox package really is faster than the normal fox
<bddebian> Howdy
<pygi> sbalneav, you solved the confusion or should we mail them? :)
<Burgwork> http://launchpad.net/bugs/58487
<TeePOG> easyubuntu is better than I remember it, but it's a pain that it has no progress report... at least Automatix has an xterm window to show you what's going on
* TeePOG will brb
<pygi> ogra, do you know if sbalneav sorted out the confusion? :)
<pygi> sbalneav, poke? :)
<neurogeek> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 21h 47m 30s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<bddebian> Howdy
<pygi> hey ho bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hello pygi
<pygi> how is you? :)
<bddebian> OK, thx. You?
<pygi> fantastic, thanks :)
<bddebian> Wow, that good eh? :-)
<pygi> yup :)
<TeePOG> tell me, why would wget not use my proxy settings that every other program seems to get?
#edubuntu 2006-09-02
<TeePOG> it's edubuntu 6.06.1
<TeePOG> with kubuntu-desktop
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
<pygi> bddebian, libburn, still working on that :P
<bddebian> pygi: You DA MAN :)
<pygi> bddebian, wanna test? :)
<pygi> I have new toy :)
<Burgwork> pygi, toy?
* Burgwork perks up
<pygi> Burgwork, yes, what's wrong with toys? :)
<Burgwork> no, I want to play with it
<pygi> oki :)
<pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org libburn
<pygi> cd libburn/trunk
<pygi> bootstrap && ./configure && make
<pygi> cd test/
<pygi> ./libburner --help
<pygi> and see how to use it :)
* bddebian has no burner
<pygi> o, yes, forgot it :)
<bddebian> :-(
<pygi> get one? :)
<bddebian> You can buy me one.  Preferably attached to an amd64 machine.. ;-P
<pygi> Burgwork, how's playing going? :P
<Burgwork> pygi, mostly working. I will play when I get home
<pygi> Burgwork, ah,oki, sorry for bothering then :)
<Burgwork> no worries
<pygi> night all
* TeePOG will brb, rebooting
<TeePOG> morning
<TeePOG> which usergroup[s]  should a new user belong to, if that user needs to login over the terminal server?
<TeePOG> the default user [my own username]  logs in perfectly
<TeePOG> but a new user does not
<TeePOG> it just returns to the ldm login screen
<TeePOG> erm
<TeePOG> anyone?
<frog[paR] > hey guys, i have a quick question. gnome is installed on my edubuntu installation, but it auto loads the terminal. how can i have it auto load gnome when i boot it up?
<TeePOG> this chan is dead, try #ubuntu
<frog[paR] > thanks
<Laser_away> dead?
<frog[paR] > well does anyone know how to have it auto load gnome? -_-
<crimsun> well just because our resident raging ubuntu-aholic MOTU isn't speaking, yes, it's dead.
<Laser_away> whatever
<TeePOG> i should have said, asleep
<Laser_away> frog[paR] : I don't quite understand what you mean by auto load?
<TeePOG> sorry
<frog[paR] > i pmed you laser
<crimsun> he wants to have it load gdm instead.
<Laser_away> TeePOG: np, and as for your question, I'm not sure either. I'd look at the groups in the Administration->Users & Groups (or some such)
<frog[paR] > well i am a bit new to linux
<frog[paR] > how can i just have it load gnome when i boot up the computer instead of going to the terminal
<Laser_away> frog[paR] : I didn't get your pm because you need to have a registered nick
<frog[paR] > oh ok
<frog[paR] > well
<Laser_away> here is fine
<Laser_away> crimsun: I think his X isn't working
<frog[paR] > basically, when i turn on the computer i want it to load gnome instead of going to the terminal
<Laser_away> crimsun: so he gets a tty
<frog[paR] > i went to remove xfce and i think i removed all my x stuff
<TeePOG> but my own username is member of some dozen-odd groups... not much help there, even IF i eliminate the obvious non-possiblilites
<frog[paR] > if i reinstall x will gnome load?
<crimsun> frog[paR] : are you using edubuntu?
<crimsun> (client)
<frog[paR] > yes
<frog[paR] > server i think
<frog[paR] > edubuntu loads up though
<frog[paR] > then it goes to terminal
<TeePOG> ahhh
<crimsun> just --reinstall x-window-system-core
<crimsun> (``sudo aptitude reinstall x-window-system-core'')
<frog[paR] > ok thanks
<TeePOG> server means it doesn't install x-windows, doesn't it?
<frog[paR] > it didnt install any of that
<frog[paR] > i had to
<frog[paR] > but i just removed x to get rid of xfce
<Laser_away> not in Edubuntu I don't think
<frog[paR] > and that must be why
<Laser_away> yeah, you need X for gnome
<frog[paR] > ok
<Laser_away> ok, heading home, bbl
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ping?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> bddebian: how's it going?
<bddebian> OK thanks, you?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> Amaranth: sorry, was afk for a sec
<Amaranth> that's alright
<Amaranth> what's up>
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I talked to a DD today who suggested that the training.db should probably be installed to /var/ as it is variable user data
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Sure but then I can never add more stock training to it.
<Amaranth> Already had that idea. :)
<LaserJock> ahh, yes
<Amaranth> The real solution is using 2 DB files, one on /usr/share and one in /var
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> that makes sense
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you have a guess as to how hard that would be?
<Amaranth> not really
<Amaranth> i hope to poke at it a bit this weekend
<LaserJock> I haven't dealt with sqlite
<LaserJock> ah that would be cool
<LaserJock> the guy who did the qt port (Robert Day, I think he emailed you at some point) was able to get the content filter to work (getting that import in the bayesian.py)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: so is the database issue the remaining problem?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i never got an email from him
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if he sent it to the wrong email or something
<Amaranth> is he ever on IRC?
<LaserJock> not in here
<LaserJock> but yeah, he is rkd
<LaserJock> Amaranth: he's in the UK so probably in bed now
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> not for long? :)
<Amaranth> although i expect to be sleeping soon
<LaserJock> I'm also working on the packaging to put the qt port in the willowng source package while disturbing as little as possible
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> does the qt version add it's stuff to the distutils script?
<LaserJock> basically it's just a willowng-config-kde script plus a different .desktop
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I'll send you a debdiff when I get it cleaned up a bit
<Amaranth> alright, cool
<LaserJock> I hope you don't mind too much
<LaserJock> I dislike mucking around in other people's packages
<Amaranth> please, feel free to work on my packages :)
<Amaranth> btw, geany is the best IDE i've ever seen </random>
<Amaranth> it's got an intellisense kind of thing and has the classes, functions, variables, and methods in a pane on the left side, click on them and you jump to the line they're defined on
<LaserJock> cool, is it in Ubuntu?
<Amaranth> yeah, it showed up in New Packages today
<Amaranth> that's how i found it
<Amaranth> hmm, i'm thinking a tangoized castle gate would be a good icon for willowng
<LaserJock> oh nice
<LaserJock> btw, I think willowng will be a "killer app" for many people
<LaserJock> I've been trying to play around with trying to have an easy to use filter via dansguardian-tinyproxy-firehol
<Amaranth> I'm going to have to port it to windows. :)
<LaserJock> oh man, people would love you
<Amaranth> I hooked my cable up to my uncle's computer, 3 days later he caught his 11 year old looking at porn. :P
<Amaranth> Right now I have some program that makes you type in a password when any program tries to access port 80 outgoing
<LaserJock> the few people I've talked to about willowng were really excited
<Amaranth> yay for something non-trivial to put on a resume(pretend it has the accent) :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, there still remains the "kids can just turn off the proxy" issue
<LaserJock> I wonder if there is an easy workaround for now
<Amaranth> yeah, but the idea is to set gconf and debconf proxy keys then lock out port 80
<Amaranth> so you use the proxy or you don't get web
<Amaranth> For Windows I'd have to rely on the kids not knowing how to disable the proxy, which isn't a problem with my target audience. :)
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta be afk for a little bit
<Amaranth> alright
<LaserJock> thanks for the help, keep on truckin' :-)
<Amaranth> i'll either be up all night hacking or sleeping soon :)
<TeePOG> morning
<TeePOG> can anyone tell me the following: If I add a new user to 
<TeePOG> *Edubuntu, which usergroups should they belong to in order to be able to login over the terminal server?
<TeePOG> erm
<TeePOG> not all at once huh?
<pygi> hello all
<pygi> hey Burgundavia && ogra
* TeePOG is gone now, bye everyone
<spacey> anyone using acl here?
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
<pygi> hey ho cbx33 
<cbx33> hiya dude
<cbx33> howz Mr pygi 
<pygi> fantastic :)
<pygi> what about you?
<cbx33> yeh going really well
<cbx33> compiling cedega at the mo
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> but I'm also working on a patch for Pessulus later
<cbx33> I hope I get it done in time
<cbx33> I've been talking a lot with vuntz
<cbx33> he's been helping me out a lot
<pygi> :)
<pygi> nice :)
<cbx33> unfortunately goption has no python docs at all
<cbx33> and vuntz wanted me to use it
<cbx33> so I had to use the C docs instead
<pygi> Saw it :)
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> planet?
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx333> Hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx333 
<cbx33> grrrr
<cbx33> gconf is doing my nut !
<cbx33> i managed to get it working great apart from one thing
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<cbx33> when it's run as sudo and keys it creates 
<cbx33> all keys with ownership as root
<cbx33> and mode 700
<cbx33> so the user can't even read them
<cbx33> and hence it is well and truly broken
<cbx33> oh bugger, I though I had it and it was plain sailing :(
<cbx33> now I can see why sabayon does some strange crap with copying files around
<cbx33> ping ogra 
#edubuntu 2006-09-03
<lecaros> @seen mhz
<Amaranth> well, that was simple
<Amaranth> i haven't actually tried running the code yet but i believe i've just switched willowng over to using two separate DBs in about 30 minutes
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> !!
<Amaranth> now to unfsck the package :)
<LaserJock> heh
<Amaranth> wow this is a PITA
<LaserJock> do you want to include the KDE port in this one?
<Amaranth> if you have the patches, sure
<LaserJock> do you have an ok package right now or do you still have work to do on it?
<Amaranth> i'm working out some problems with the way i setup the config.py file
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you keep the debian/ in your bzr repo?
<Amaranth> yeah, want me to push my latest stuff so you can diff it?
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be helpful
<Amaranth> done
<Amaranth> dunno if any of it works yet though :)
<LaserJock> well, we'll test it out ;-)
<Amaranth> actually i know it doesn't work, setup.py needs more love
<Amaranth> brb
<LaserJock> Amaranth: doh, I was just leaving. I sent you an email with a URL for my bzr branch
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: do you have a couple of sentences for a final SoC report (or a blog post I can look at?)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: alright, cool
<Amaranth> i finally got suspend to work on edgy :)
<Amaranth> had to disable ahci in my bios, damn sata disks
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: If you can wait 24 hours I'll have something positive to report. :)
<Amaranth> Right now things are....broken. :P
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: well, I want to add something to UWN
<Amaranth> what's your deadline?
<Burgundavia> 1hr
<Amaranth> ack
<Amaranth> All I really have to report is that until this weekend I've been swamped with school stuff.
<Burgundavia> no need for a link, so a quick statement of what you finished
<Amaranth> Since last time you asked? Not a thing.
<Burgundavia> ok, then no worries
<Amaranth> Heh, that's why I said 24 hours. :)
<Amaranth> I've got a couple of things going on in bzr and the next package upload will likely have a Qt frontend
<Burgundavia> ok, I will get you next week
<jpduyx> question, where can i find information to upgrade from Ubuntu Dapper to a Dapper Edubuntu-server that acts as a ltsp server ?
<jpduyx> i did apt-get install edubuntu-server, that worked fine, then i i changed the /etc/ltsp/dhcd.conf to my local settings. the thin client gets the network address, so  the dhcp server  works, but it seems there are no ltsp kernels or something like that, i get the error TFTP-Error - File not found
<jpduyx> anybody with ideas ? i am now busy to use dpkg-reconfigure --all, just would like to know if that is the preferred way to do this "upgrade"
<jpduyx> i couldn't find this information with google also, really nobody tried this, or knows what i am missing ?
<lucasvo> !seen p1ps
<ubotu> I haven't seen p1ps recently
<pygi> morning
<jpduyx> morning
<pygi> RichEd-1, poke? :)
* pygi is sorry for poking on Sunday
<jpduyx> anybody has any experience upgrading from ubuntu to edubuntu-server ?
<jpduyx> okay, i'll try to find out myself, where can i post my information if i can figure it out ? maybe helping others ?
<jpduyx> ogra any technical idea's about my questions above? i saw at edubuntu wiki that you are specialised in the technical and general questions concerning edubuntu 
<jjjjjjj> anyone home?
<jjjjjjj> i have ubuntu 5.10 installed.  i think i can change it to edubuntu via apt-get no?
<jjjjjjj> is there an "upgrade" path from ubuntu to edubuntu?
<capt_kirk> Hi all.  I have a newbie question about GDM login under LTSP.  Is this the right place to ask?
<Burgundavia> yes, but Edubuntu doesn
<Burgundavia> 't use GDM
<capt_kirk> ahh.  thanks.  here's the problem I'm having: the thin clients always boot correctly and bring up the Ubuntu splash, but..
<capt_kirk> when they get to the login, sometimes they fail to go to the graphical login
<capt_kirk> if i reboot the server, they will go to the graphical login again and all is good
<capt_kirk> at the tty login, i obviously can't login since i'm not ssh'ing to the server at that point.
<capt_kirk> i've googled for a couple of hours, but couldn't find anyone asking about a similar problem
<capt_kirk> has anyone seen the thin clients and or server "forget" how to do thin client login after the server is running for an hour or two?
<capt_kirk> it seems like there is a timer that is expiring, but I can't imagine what it is.
<Burgundavia> hmm, I have never installed a thin client lab, so I cannot hel you there
<capt_kirk> even when the logins fail, the thin client is getting an IP from dhcpd and they go through the boot process up to the actual login where it dies.
<capt_kirk> np, Burgundavia.  
<capt_kirk> anyone else monitoring the conversation?
<Burgundavia> fwiw, I have never heard of this specific bug
<capt_kirk> I've read a lot of Oli's post while googling.  Is he on here usually?
<Burgundavia> yep, as ogra
<capt_kirk> thanks
<capt_kirk> I'll watch for him.  It's not urgent.  Just doing a proof-of-concept test lab now.  But need to have it working well within a couple of weeks to influence our next big buy.  Working to convince the Dean that LTSP is the way to go for the computer labs to give more capability for less cost
<capt_kirk> fwiw, if there are any edubuntu developers here, I got the disks in the mail on Thursday night and have had a great weekend playing with them.  It's a great distro.  Very impressed.  Still a few automation issues that would make it easier for the average school to deploy, but it's a long way toward that goal.  great job!
<capt_kirk> Well, gotta get to bed.  It's almost 2300 here in Tanzania.  Night.
<mhz> anyone here working on E.H.B ?
<hlabs> help. I need help in setting up a file server
<hlabs>  i try to connect my windows pc the the shared folder of the ubuntu pc. But the window pops up and says enter uid and pass. I cannot access the folder even if the credentials are rite               
<mhz> hlabs: and have you asked in #ubuntu?
<LaserJock> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> 403 on your branch
<LaserJock> bah
<cbx33> hi all
<LaserJock> I wondered
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<Amaranth> thanks to a tip on the forums my sound is now actually louder than it is in windows :D
<cbx33> hi Laserjock
<Amaranth> before it was 3x louder in windows than linux
<Amaranth> at least
<mhz> cbx33: are you working on EHB?
<mhz> hi all
<cbx33> EHB?
<Amaranth> I wonder if crimsun would be able to figure out why the hack works like it does.
<cbx33> oh
<mhz> Edubuntu Handbook?
<cbx33> not at the moment
<mhz> okis
<cbx33> probably will write some on SCP
<LaserJock> Amaranth: can you try it now?
<cbx33> when i finish my pessulus patch
<Amaranth> loading up email
<Amaranth> i think nvidia is robbing me of working hibernate :(
<Amaranth> it works if i stop gdm before hibernating (echo disk > /sys/power/state)
<Amaranth> but at that point i've already closed out everything that would make not doing a fresh boot worthwhile (except for the sound hack)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: "All changes applied successfully."
<Amaranth> which is really cool, because some of the patches it made still worked after i reordered things in setup.py :)
<LaserJock> yeah, bzr is grand
<cbx33> indeed
<Amaranth> ugh
<Amaranth> he didn't define any names for the buttons and dialog
<Amaranth> so it's PushButton_4_2_clicked and junk
<cbx33> iwho?
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> i gotta add more to the pessulus app now
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is that real bad?
<cbx33> custom paths was cool, but, left me with a large problem.  Editing users keys, saved them as root 700
<cbx33> so normal users couldn't even read them
<Amaranth> LaserJock: it's pretty bad
<Amaranth> LaserJock: i'll accept it for now but i'd like to see it cleaned up
<cbx33> It makes it a lot harder to figure out what does what
<Amaranth> i'm going to make willowng-config a metapackage that depends on willowng-config-gnome | willowng-config-kde
<Amaranth> actually, i dunno if i should bother
<LaserJock> ideally it would be better to do it that way
<LaserJock> as then people see that there is a difference
<LaserJock> but I don't know if it's a big deal
<LaserJock> I just wanted to create as little delta as possible
<Amaranth> i might make willowng-config into willowng-config-gnome but i think think i'll make the metapackage
<Amaranth> hmm, although perhaps i should for upgrades
<LaserJock> Amaranth: were you able to split it?
#edubuntu 2007-08-27
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi oliver/someone who knows the edubuntu doco. is there instructions for setting up 32 bit clients on a 64 bit server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just got an email saying the person cant find any, and asking how i did it
<Kamping_Kaiser> unfortunately, i havent
<Kamping_Kaiser> but apparently i'm hte only resource tehy could find
<Kamping_Kaiser> so i'm kind of at a loss
<Kamping_Kaiser> i emailed back to find out what they found to make them think i have clue ;)
<sbalneav> I don't think it's documented, but a ltsp-build-client --arch i386 is how you do it, I beleive.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, its what i emailed to suggest they do.
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there a proper place to document it? perhaps a line i can add to existing wiki page/s?
<sbalneav> Should probably be added to the edubuntu handbool
<sbalneav> err book
<sbalneav> If you'd like to write up some info on it, and send it to me, I'll include it.
<Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, ok. i'll try and locate the svn for the handbook itself (i dont want to do a full checkout, it'll take me hours)
<nosrednaekim> ping ogra
<ti-grrr> i loaded edubuntu 7.04 to replace a k12ltsp 5. can anyone help me figure out why it is overall so slow compared to k12ltsp?
<jbarry> hi all, i am at loss as to how to let the client of LTSP access the internet, my host has two NICs, the host can access the internet thru eth0, the clients gets their IP thru the hosts' eth1. how will i let the clients access the net, thanks
<jbarry> i was able to make the clients access the net if I setup eth0 as also the network that serves dhcp, but if I'm not mistaken the two NIC setup is the ideal setup?
<Kamping_Kaiser> jbarry, so the server can access the net?
<Kamping_Kaiser> 2 nic is probably better if you dont have a gateway of some sort... (note that i dont know the official edubuntu line on this)
<jbarry> yes
<jbarry> my current setup is like this
<jbarry> from the dsl modem it is connected to the wireless router
<jbarry> from the router it is connected to the host eth0
<jbarry> then from the host eth1 goes to the switch
<jbarry> is this correct?
<jbarry> the clients can login, but cannot access the internet
<jbarry> my for passing the client thru the host is to enable web filtering, is my setup correct?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. not done a 2 nic setup, but it sounds ok.
<Kamping_Kaiser> what ubuntu release are you using?
<jbarry> hmmm i hope somebody can help me
<jbarry> 7.04
<Kamping_Kaiser> if its full ltsp, clients run on the server, so i'm a bit confused if they cant connect out. if its fat clients, then thats different
<Kamping_Kaiser> could you run `route -n` on a client?
<Kamping_Kaiser> and the server
<jbarry> imusing LTSP with thin clients
<jbarry> ill try that...
<Kamping_Kaiser> and give us the output of both, should only be hal f a dozen lines each
<jbarry> this is so embarrassing but when I tried it again (after restarting the client) it now works!!!, thanks for taking the time to help
<jbarry> my next question is how do i enable webfiltering?
<jbarry> is dansguardian good? just a program i found out in the web while researching
<Kamping_Kaiser> dansguaridan rocks, if you have the resources to run squid
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent tried running it on the same system as the clients, but in theory it should work ok
<jbarry> oh? how do you mean?
<Kamping_Kaiser> bit of iptables magic and your set
<Kamping_Kaiser> re clients or resources?
<jbarry> I meant to install it in the same hardware as the host, I'm running on AMD athlon x2 with 2 gig of RAM for about 30 clients
<Kamping_Kaiser> plenty of resources
<jbarry> too bad I was not successful in implementing the raid0 thing, my grub would not install
<Kamping_Kaiser> never tried software raid myself
<jbarry> actually this is my second install, yesterday i was able to install using the single network card setup but it keeps on freezing up
<jbarry> so I reintalled using the two NIC setup hopefully it will work better this time
<jbarry> it just freezes when the clients are loading flash based web sites
<Kamping_Kaiser> amd64?
<jbarry> no i am using the 386 install
<Kamping_Kaiser> shrug
<jbarry> hmmmm if it happens again how will i go about inspecting it? where will i start looking for the problem?
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyway. if you have 2 nics you should be able to say anything leaving <internet nic> to port 80 gets redirected to 8080 (dansguardian)
<Kamping_Kaiser> does it freeze the whole system?
<Kamping_Kaiser> gdb is probably the answer eitehr way, but hard system crashes are a pita
<jbarry> i was pinging the router yesterday then the clients frozed the ping msg was something about cache being full
<jbarry> all the clients are frozen but the host cannot access the net either
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont know anything about flash
<Kamping_Kaiser> past hating it
<jbarry> our major patrons would be teens so it is expected that they will access flash based sites, and flash based gaming sites.
<alex_> hi is there a french communaute of edubuntu ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm going to (probalby harshly) say "glad thats not my problem" - but hang around, i'm sure someone here would be willing to have it tehir problem
<Kamping_Kaiser> or try the list
<jbarry> hehehe, ok...
<jbarry> mmmm... does any body here know how to share plugins of firefox? I want to install the adblockplus plugin but i found out that I need to install it to every user?
<Kamping_Kaiser> do that stuff in your proxy, not your client browsers
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats what the proxys for :)
<jbarry> hmmmm not so knowlegable in proxys
<Kamping_Kaiser> if your setting up dansguardian, thats what your setting up - a proxy
<Kamping_Kaiser> and i can help you more or less with the proxy setup
<jbarry> yeah that is what i understand but what does it have to do with plugins?
<Kamping_Kaiser> do the ad filtering in the proxy
<Kamping_Kaiser> so you dont need the plugin...
<jbarry> hmmmm....
<Kamping_Kaiser> also look at adzapper
<jbarry> so i will have to experment with dansguardian sooner than expected
<Kamping_Kaiser> squid+dansguardian+adzapper
<Kamping_Kaiser> pretty decent combo
<jbarry> so to use dansguardian i need to first install squid? do i also need to configure that?
<Kamping_Kaiser> if you install dansguardian (or adzapper) it will install squid automatically.
<Kamping_Kaiser> but yes, you have to configure it
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont know whats in feisty, but its probably squid 2.6, which works slightly differently to 2.whatever i'm used to
<alex_> glad to see that this list is alive
<jbarry> hmmm i will need to update my machine first since its a fresh install there are a lot of packages that have newer versions
<Kamping_Kaiser> alex_, re your question, i couldnt say
<Kamping_Kaiser> but there is ubuntu-fr
<alex_> I am to install edubuntu in a class room with about 12 Windows based computer, I will use samba to make them share a disk of the machine I want to install edubuntu, any suggestion ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> alex_, sugestions about what specifically? :)
<jbarry> isn't samba sharing in edubuntu straight forward just right click then share
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt configured samba in a loooooong time
<alex_> I don't know :) maybe it is not a good idea to install only one edubuntu, maybe it is not a good idea to use samba to make it communicate with the windows computer. I have no idea how the teachers will react, so I will start with one machine and see how it goes
<jbarry> hope you have a positive experience!!! good luck
<alex_> thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> let us know how you go
<jbarry> hi all, just asking if any of you experienced this.... when i plug in a usb disk in the host all the clients will try to access it and as a result a message will appear that they cannot access it, and a blank nautilus window will appear
<LaserJock> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen riched - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> mr laser fellow ... look this way
<RichEd> LaserJock ^
<LaserJock> wahoo
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: make it back safely, with your head the normal size ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, safely yes, head is probably the same size - ego is unusaly inflated atm (should start goign down soon though)
<Kamping_Kaiser> if i dont fall chronically ill in the nexdt few days i made it out with no malaria too
<Kamping_Kaiser> just typing up notes from the trip
<Kamping_Kaiser> why didnt i type tehm directly :S >.<
<Nubae> hi, very quick question, I'm moving /home to its own partition on a ltsp system for more space... does this affect the chroot environment in any way?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no
<Nubae> thanks kaiser... dont need to move anything from within the chroot environment right?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, no
<Nubae> k...
<Nubae> thankyou
<Kamping_Kaiser> np. hope it helps
<Nubae> kaiser... I get messages when I'm trying to copy the dir over about /home/media and /home/tmp (permission denied), should I just ignore this?
<Nubae> I'm doing this from a thin terminal
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, what do you have in /home/?
<Kamping_Kaiser> are you moving the home from inside an ltsp chroot?
<Kamping_Kaiser> is this thin or fat client?
<Nubae> just the user dirs and a couple files in the sysadmin dir
<Nubae> thin client
<Nubae> with disks and such though
<Nubae> the messages are pertaining to the local devs
<Kamping_Kaiser> not dealt with local drives. it seems from your comment that theres "wierd stuff" happening with they get used
<Nubae> yeah, well It sort of makes sense as it mounts these systems locally, but they are in fact not really in /home
<Nubae> well, I'll try it and see what happens
<Nubae> k, here goes testing... :-)
<Nubae> so far so good, except the new disk is mounted under /media/disk too
<nosrednaekim> hello, If I wanted to set up two thin clients, can I only download the server CD?
<nosrednaekim> or rather, one server and one thin client
<nosrednaekim> do I need the desktop CD if i'm not going to be wanting to run off the liveCD?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nosrednaekim> morn'
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, I got a another debdiff here for nbd-server when you got a sec.  We're not including the nbd-server(5) manual page.
<nosrednaekim>  hello, If I wanted to set up two thin clients, can I only download the server CD?
<nosrednaekim> or rather, one server and one thin client
<sbalneav> Yes, the server cd will give you the OS
<sbalneav> If you want the educational applications, you'll need the addon cd,
<nosrednaekim> no... I just want the base stuff. thanks!
<Nubae> does ltsp take into account quota? should I install this seperately if I want to use it for the /home dir?
<sbalneav> Nubae: LTSP has nothing to do with quota's.  That's a completely separate system.  Yes, if you need disk space quota's then install the quota system.
<ogra> sbalneav, thats fine, could you uncommit your last commit and make sure to have the translations in a separate commit
<ogra> its a bit messy atm, seems you merged a ton of .po files from vagrant you didnt commit
<sbalneav> Oh, ok, hold on...
<sbalneav> I was wondering what those were, lol
<ogra> sbalneav, i'm a bit in and out today (need to get susies car to the tech inspection this evening)
<ogra> if you cant revert it, i'll live with it, but keep an eye on translations in the future if you merge from vagrant ;)
<sbalneav> Got a half a second to walk me through this right now?
<sbalneav> so that's a bzr revert?
<sbalneav> Morning!  BTW :)
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ogra> uncommit would be one ...
<ogra> revert is for files that arent commited
<sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35255/
<ogra> so first you bzr uncommit (it will ask yopu if you really want to do that)
<ogra> then you revert the changes to ltsp-update-image (they are smaller)
<ogra> commit the translation changes with a proper commit message ....
<ogra> add your changes to ltsp-update-image back and commit these on their own
<ogra> isnt tehre a nbd-server.manpages ?
<sbalneav> right, nbd-server.1, but the manpage for the config file format's in nbd-server.5, which isn't being included in the package.
<ogra> hmm, actually not
<ogra> ok
<ogra> no, i meant a .manpages file in the debian dir :)
<sbalneav> Oh, while I'm at it, want me to change the "exit" to a "umount" ? :)
<ogra> yeah, please
<ogra> no need to bother the user with any action here :)
<ogra> sbalneav, the proper way to add a manpage would be to have debian/nbd-server.manpages and add the path to the manpage there ... then make sure debian/rules calls dh_installman -a
<sbalneav> oh, ok, I just copied what was there for .1
<ogra> so if someone decides that dh_installman should rather build a nbd-server-manpages package he can just modify the functions, not the package
<sbalneav> OK, would you like me to do that then?
<ogra> sure :)
<sbalneav> ok, could you do me a quick favor? I forgot to copy off the ltsp-update-image, and It's reverted back to before I made the change, could you quiclky past the chroot check for me? :)
<sbalneav> paste, sorry
* ogra hugs LP for mailing him all changes of the branches :)
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35257/
<ogra> voila
<sbalneav> Can we do an unmount CHROOT/proc?  Or would we have to do a chroot umount /proc?
<ogra> btw, mvo contributed to UbuntuWomen last wednesday with a little girl :)
<ogra> umount CHROOT/proc should suffice
<sbalneav> Oh, cool!
<sbalneav> ok, so now bzr status tells me I've got the .po's, and ltsp-update-image
<sbalneav> how do I commit the one, and not the other?
<ogra> meh
<ogra> revert ltsp-update-image first
<ogra> then commit the .po stiuff
<ogra> then add your ltsp-update-image changes back and commit them separately
<ogra> i'm sure you can do freaky stuff woith bzr shelf, but since i never use it ...
<ogra> probably ask vagrant for a better way ;)
<sbalneav> aahhhh
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> duh
<sbalneav> copying ltsp-update-image this time
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> pushing
<sbalneav> So what lines go in nbd-server.manpages?  usr/share/man/man1/nbd-server.1, etc?
<ogra> the ldm32 translation stuff isnt kosher yet btw ... we'll need to look into it ... and the greeter has also some strings and no translation at all yet
<sbalneav> yeah, I threw that in there for UVF, but knew it wasn't correct.
<ogra> since they sit in the root of the sourcedir it should just be nbd-server.1 and nbd-server.5 (no path it seems)=
<sbalneav> but figured you and I could sit down for an hour and squash that bug :)
<sbalneav> oh, ok
<sbalneav> and then remove the reference to .1 from the .install file, I'm assuming?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and make sure dh_installman is called
<ogra> (see ltsp's debian/rules for reference)
<sbalneav> okie
<sbalneav> oop
<sbalneav> oin$ bzr commit -m "Added check for /proc being mounted in chroot"
<sbalneav> modified server/ltsp-update-image
<sbalneav> Committed revision 441.
<sbalneav> oin$ bzr push
<sbalneav> Using saved location: sftp://sbalneav@bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/scotts-gutsy/
<sbalneav> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  Try using "merge" and then "push".
<ogra> merge then :)
<sbalneav> Merge with myself?
<sbalneav> Won't that screw up the .po stuff again?
<ogra> no idea, try itr (you can uncommit and revert all the time)
<sbalneav> ok, there we go
<sbalneav> Oh, crumb
<sbalneav> I just remembered, I'm doing all this ruddy nbd-server stuff, and I'm running feisty here at work.
<sbalneav> Sigh, time to download the tribe and upgrade :)
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Hopefully this is a straightforward question, but I just can't seem to find it through google, etc.  Is there a simple way to connect to LDM from a Windows or Linux desktop, without net-booting?
<sbalneav> cberlo: Well, there's a bunch of different ways...
<cberlo> sbalneav: I'm all ears!  :)
<sbalneav> Essentially, all ldm does is do an ssh login into the server, then start gnome-session
<sbalneav> if you're using ssh tunneling, it tunnels the graphics back through that
<cberlo> sbalneav: Okay, so if I could fire up Xnest and have an ssh session point into that, that should do it?
<sbalneav> if you're using LDM_DIRECTX, then you just do a DISPLAY=192.168.0.whatever:6 gnome-session
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> or, vnc viewe
<cberlo> Sorry, what's LDM_DIRECTX?
<sbalneav> Basically, just the choice between tunnelling the X through ssh, or just having it come back via unencrypted TCP, as usual.
<cberlo> Ah, okay.  I'd like to keep it encrypted.  So...  how can I do this?
<sbalneav> You're wanting to start this under xnest?
<cberlo> Yeah, I think that would be most convenient for me.  Then I can figure out how to do it from a Windows workstation, should the need ever arise.
<sbalneav> Are you wanting to run ldm itself, or just get a session started to a remote machine.
<cberlo> sbalneav: Well, if I can run LDM itself, that would be best for testing; if that's too tricky then just as one user at a time should be fine.
<cberlo> sbalneav: I'm working on an LTSP implementation and I'm not at the console, so I can't see what effect the scripts I'm writing are having on the users...  (not in production yet, thankfully!)
<sbalneav> well, ultimately, you just want to do an "ssh user@server /etc/X11/Xsession"
<sbalneav> That won't get you any sound or localdev stuff, but the display will work.
<cberlo> sbalneav: How do I get that to pipe into an Xnest?
<sbalneav> Don't know, off the top of my head.  Answer is left as an exercise to the reader :)
<cberlo> LOL
<cberlo> Fair enough.
<cberlo> Alright -- I can't seem to get access control for Xnest; I start Xnest with "Xnest :1 &", then attempt "xhost +" (just for testing) and it says I don't have access...
<Access> hello all
<Access> Anyone free at all to help a n00b? :)
<Access> Well in any case I'll ask and maybe if someone knows (or is awake) can chime in :D
<Access> Am trying to display 1280x1024. Tried forcing it by adding the mode "1280x1024" in xorg.conf however it didnt work and I still sit on 1024x768 (although 1280x768 did work, but thats not helpful :P). I googled my Auriga ColorPro 19D and it seems no one has the Vertical and Horitzonal numbers.
<Access> Seems my GeForce 7800 GS is identified correctly though and the driver was installed via the "Restricted Driver Manager" in Ubuntu successfully.
<LaserJock> ogra: ping ping pingiloo
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, started working on docs today.
* LaserJock ^5s sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Should I be committing to the trunk?  Or is there a branch of the docs specifically for gutsy?
<LaserJock> usually we branch at string freeze, so go for trunk
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> When's string freeze?
<sbalneav> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<LaserJock> 13th
<LaserJock> of Sept.
<sbalneav> Ok, bit of time yet.
<sbalneav> If I haul *ss, I can get the bulk of the doc done I want before then.
<sbalneav> err
<sbalneav> doc i want done.
<sbalneav> Man, with my english, maybe I shouldn't be writing docs :)
<sbalneav> Can't code so good, neither.
<sbalneav> Really, don't know why you people keep me around.
<sbalneav> Sure ain't for my looks :)
<LaserJock> it's for the food critiques
<sbalneav> Ah
<sbalneav> Excellent.
<LaserJock> I've learned
<LaserJock> "go where we go, say what we say"
<sbalneav> I'm the Paul Prudhomme of the Linux set :)
<LaserJock> moquist: ping ping ring ring
<moquist> pongo
<moquist> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> moquist: your moodle package
<LaserJock> moquist: heard anything?
<cliebow> moquist:!!!Ydwoh
<cliebow> LaserJock: let uid +=1....i guess let no workee in ubuntu??
<LaserJock> cliebow: ?
<cliebow> LaserJock, forget it..just babbling
<cliebow> must be heat stroke today..i'm packing it in..
<LaserJock> heh
* LaserJock throws cliebow an ice pack
<cliebow> ahhhhh..better..
<cliebow> nighto...
<moquist> LaserJock: hey
<moquist> LaserJock: my test system died last week. I've been rebuilding it. I will test it now.
<moquist> i.e., test my test system.
<moquist> if it's OK, I can probably work on this tomorrow. Hopefully the postgresql support is going to be easy to add. The only barrier is that I'm much less familiar with it than mysql. *shrug*
<LaserJock> we're going to need a working package ASAP
<LaserJock> I believe we need to get a UVF/FF exception already at this point
* moquist nods
<moquist> Has anyone looked at what I have in REVU?
<LaserJock> if we can get it in Main we can work on it more if there are some bugs
<LaserJock> but we need a package that'll make it into Main first
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> I haven't yet, but I can take a look at it today if you want
<LaserJock> I honestly don't know if I have a ton of advice
<moquist> That would be great; thanks.
<moquist> np
<moquist> You have lots more than *I* do. :)
<LaserJock> I don't work a lot with dbs but I'll give it a go
<moquist> The only real changes are in postinst.
<moquist> Just glancing over that (and installing the package to make sure it's OK) is probably good.
<LaserJock> is this a new upstream release? or did you just take the package that was already in Universe?
<moquist> I took the package from Universe.
<moquist> I've asked the upstream maintainer about taking in my wwwconfig-less changes, but he didn't write back.
<moquist> I haven't pinged again.
<LaserJock> well, we're out of time for that
<LaserJock> we can just do it in Ubuntu now
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> and let Debian catch up after release
<moquist> Well, it would still be good to push the changes upstream, even if that isn't of immediate importance.
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> sure
* moquist has a test system once more
<LaserJock> we're just on a pretty tight schedule now
<LaserJock> we need to get testing in on moodle
<LaserJock> just dropping it on the CD last minute isn't a good idea
<moquist> heh - NO.
<LaserJock> thought *buntu has done stuff like that quite a bit
<moquist> really? Hrm. :(
<moquist> LaserJock: school's starting up here and I just started an additional job, so that's why I don't have this all done yet. :(
* moquist is employed 40 hrs/week for the first time since 2004
<LaserJock> moquist: well, I'm pretty busy too
<LaserJock> moquist: but I'll try to help as much as I can
<LaserJock> moquist: I'm pretty confident we can nock something out that'll work
<moquist> LaserJock: I wasn't trying to complain or make anybody else do more work. I was just giving excuses. :-)
<LaserJock> sure, I know ;-)
<sbalneav> OK, I'll be on later tonight. See you all then.
#edubuntu 2007-08-28
<sbalneav> Evening all
<johnny> hi, i'm noticing that when a client autologin they were getting the wrong username, and it turns out the clients were using the contents of /etc/hostname to decide the username even tho it was assigned via dhcp
<johnny> if i chmod 000 /etc/hostname, then all works as expected
<johnny> and leave it empty
<johnny> am i missing a proper dhcp option?
<sbalneav> No, probably a bug.
<sbalneav> This on gutsy, or feisty?
<johnny> feisty
<johnny> i'm currently happy that everything works tho :)
<johnny> 1 box went online yesterday, and another today
<johnny> my install is certainly one of the more limited LTSP installs :)
<johnny> 4 boxes total
<johnny> but i can see myself deploying it again in the future in more educational situations
<johnny> we're gonna setup a "hack lab" so ltsp seems like a good choice
<johnny> and doing it with gusty edubuntu right from the start should seriously help
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Kamping_Kaiser> bugger, no sbal
<Kamping_Kaiser> question to the room:
<Kamping_Kaiser> can [ia32/amd64]  systems host ppc/sparc clients for netboot? i know the chroot has to be created on the relevent arch, but will endianness get in the way?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: good question :) sorry that I have no idea
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. i'll try and search out an answer - i was just about to start writing up some details on hosting/creating ltsp chroots for [other then server arch] 
<RichEd> logically ... I'd say that as long as the clients can see the host, and load the correct o/s that they need themselves, it may work
<johnny> yes
<johnny> i almost had ppc clients working
<johnny> but managing the software that works on both arches isn't really worth it atm
<Kamping_Kaiser> johnny, so they can boot but apps dont run?
<johnny> sure they will
<johnny> but you'd have to heavily manage the versions so they are as similiar as possible
<johnny> if you wanted the config files to be compatible
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry, not sure i understand why theres going to be versioning problems
<johnny> well there was a reason that ubuntu withdrew support in ppc for a time
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont recall it involving ltsp chroots ;) more number of systems in use
<johnny> well if you have say, important gnome package X at version 2.18 for x86 and then only important gnome package X at 2.16 for ppc
<johnny> the config files between both may or may not work together, depending obviously
<johnny> or any other number of programs like pidgin
<johnny> the list goes on, it just depends on what you're running
<johnny> not everything compiles on every arch
<johnny> or runs for that matter
<johnny> i actually chose to go all x86 so i didn't have to deal with keeping config files in sync at all
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, but since the chroot is a fairly minimal setup i assumed the same chroot built everyware
<johnny> and if i had to manage them seperately, it's just not that worth it
<johnny> the base chroot may be fine, but i assume you'll be wanting apps :)
<johnny> so in my case, i need flash,but flash isn't available on ppc
<Kamping_Kaiser> but since everything runs on the server, why is it relevent to the chroot?
<johnny> so people who were using the imacs we have get less functionality than those using pcs
<johnny> i couldn't get it to work :)
<johnny> i had to install firefox 32
<johnny> even for the server running uhmm
<johnny> it still runs the proper kernel
<Kamping_Kaiser> how anoying. *is shattered*. my writings just got harder
<johnny> i could be completely wrong, i just know i couldn't get things to work the way i wanted
<johnny> with some serious time spent
<johnny> i finally got rid of the imacs and now everything is fine
<Kamping_Kaiser> I *may* try this out later, but installing a server with gutsy and making my old macs go just doesnt really inspire
<johnny> hmm..
* johnny tries to remember the problem with flash
<johnny> and how it got resolved
<johnny> i didn't do that part
<johnny> but i know that we never could get the 64bit stuff to work
<johnny> the server is amd64
<johnny> and clients are normal i386
<johnny> i wish i had access to the box
<johnny> right now
<johnny> my chroot is definitely i386
<Kamping_Kaiser> flash has issues on any !=ia32 system
<johnny> yes
<johnny> sadly
<johnny> flash is necessary for public internet terminals tho
<johnny> reminds me to install the flash plugin :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
* Kamping_Kaiser sits happy with no flash on his not public desktop ;)
<johnny> i put two live today without flash, but i'll have to fix that up
<johnny> and need more codecs in general
<johnny> i hate dealing with that crap
<johnny> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<johnny> like ms codecs
<johnny> but even i need them occasionally
<johnny> open source implementations were getting better last i checked
<Kamping_Kaiser> you stop caring after the first few weeks
<johnny> not really
<johnny> had my gentoo box for 4 years
<johnny> i haven't stopped caring yet
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe.
<johnny> then again, it is easy for to do it
<johnny> since i only have i386
<Kamping_Kaiser> gah. i just opted to go out this evening. doco on building chrotos may have to wait
<johnny> i looked in my chroots that i do have
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm.. what are Edubuntus offical archs? ia32+amd64+sparc?
<johnny> seems to be pretty full installs, which is what leaves me to believe my comments
<johnny> is sparc?
<johnny> i don't know
<Kamping_Kaiser> 544M    /opt/ltsp/i386/
<johnny> go to the site :)
<johnny> yeah.. seems a pretty full install, and you'd have duplicate on ppc
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure where i'd look *tries anyway*
<Kamping_Kaiser> full = 1.5gb surely
<johnny> hmm?
<johnny> i don't remember it being that big
<johnny> well, plus swap file
<johnny> and minus open office :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Two architectures are provided and formally supported:
<Kamping_Kaiser>     * PC (Intel x86) classroom server CD
<Kamping_Kaiser>     * 64-bit PC (AMD64) classroom server CD
<johnny> yeah.. that's what i thought
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<johnny> didn't think that sparc was supported
<johnny> not enough peeps have sparc or ppc boxes that aren't running apple stuff
<johnny> see that as two seperate statements .. sparcs obviously don't run apple stuff
<Kamping_Kaiser> supported as a port, not offical though
<Kamping_Kaiser> afk.
<alexIdoia> hi there; I have installed edubuntu on 15 computer in a class room, everything went quite smoothly expect that I have only a screen resolution of 800x600 maximum
<Kamping_Kaiser> alexIdoia, waht video cards are in the sytems?
<alexIdoia> I went into /etc/X11/xorg.conf and there are plenty of higher resolution there, so I don't understand why they don't appear in my Preferences>Screen resolution utility
<Kamping_Kaiser> xorg on the server or in the chroot?
<alexIdoia> should I type lspci ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> that could help
<ogra> that would help, yes :)
* ogra guesses intel onboard cards ...
<alexIdoia> 00:05.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C51G [GeForce 6100]  (rev a2)
<ogra> or very old monitors ...
<ogra> ah, k :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> alexIdoia, is that server or client?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm... is that question relevent?
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, workstation :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, ah, right :)
<ogra> (is what he said above)
* Kamping_Kaiser didnt spot that
<alexIdoia> Kamping_Kaiser: there are all independent machines
<ogra> go to: System  Administration  Restricted Devices Manager
<ogra> enable the nvidia driver ....
<ogra> reboot ...
<alexIdoia> ok that simple :)
<alexIdoia> thank you
<alexIdoia> both
<ogra> (assuming you have 7.04 .... for older releases see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia )
<alexIdoia> need to reboot noz
<alexIdoia> now
<juliux> morning
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<RichEd> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey RichEd
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, have you merged all my stuff yet?
<ogra> sbalneav, no, but i'm on it (RL is a desaster today for me ...)
<sbalneav> Oh, nothing bad I hope?
<ogra> one of the guineapigs died this morning ... susie doesnt cope atm ...
<sbalneav> Oh noes!
<sbalneav> I had hampsters when I was young, so I can sympathise
<ogra> beyond that there is a lot of other stuff going on she cant cope with atm and i have to
<ogra> well, it was only 3 mounts old ... its pretty odd since we just got it
<sbalneav> Well, have strength.  And give her my regards.
<ogra> will do, she just picks up the corpes from the vet ...
<ogra> *corpse
<sbalneav> Don't worry about it today, but the question came up in that ltspfs bug about a backport.
<sbalneav> We can talk about it when things settle down for you.
<ogra> that will need an SRU and plent of testing in proposed-updates
<ogra> *plenty
<ogra> i fear we wont get enough testing ...
<bddebian> heya
<sbalneav> Hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sbalneav
<moquist> ogra: working on Moodle right now
<cliebow> moquist:that must be the longest response time ever..gives real-time new meaning 8~)
<moquist> cliebow: I don't follow... you mean b/c he asked yesterday, or something? Yeah, that's a while. :)
<eandres25> Hi! I need to Know how I can use edubuntu in Counseling, vocational o educative?
<eandres25> Can somebody help me?
<LaserJock> eandres25: hi
<LaserJock> eandres25: can you describe what you need a bit more?
<moquist> LaserJock: I'm also working on a native package, and I've got a debian/install file that seems not to be doing anything...what is it in debian/rules that actually *runs* that file?
<moquist> I'm looking at the dh_install stuff, but it's not yet clear to me.
<LaserJock> dh_install
<moquist> K. and that should probably be run under the install: target?
<highvoltage> hola LaserJocko
<LaserJock> moquist: yep
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hola me amigo
<moquist> LaserJock: thx. I got going on the moodle stuff and realized I needed a *gutsy* test system...losing that vmware server sucked.
<eandres25> LaserJock, ok, I don't speak English, but I will try.
<eandres25> I'm student and I want that my classmates know about Edubuntu, but I need to describe it like a toolboxes for counseling
<eandres25> Or if you know a technological tool for counseling it will be ok
<LaserJock> hmm, that is somewhat hard to answer
<eandres25> mmm, that's a big problem to me...
<LaserJock> you might look at some of the material on http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<eandres25> LaserJock, thank you!
<LaserJock> eandres25: I don't even know what kinds of tools would be used in Counseling
<moquist> apt-ftparchive is complaining in gutsy:
<moquist>   smbldap-configure has no source override entry
<moquist>   smbldap-configure has no binary override entry either
* moquist should google first; please excuse him
#edubuntu 2007-08-29
<sbalneav> Evening all
<cliebow> Hoooooooo!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi both
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: Hey there!
<jsgotangco> hi!
<moquist> sbalneav: as best as I can tell by the dash man-page, this should work:
<moquist> echo abc | read ij
<moquist> and yet it doesn't.
<moquist> ij is not set.
<sbalneav> hm
<moquist> This is to replace read var1 var2 <<<"$o", of course.
<moquist> :p
<sbalneav> one sec...
<moquist> this doesn't work in bash, either, FWIW.
<sbalneav> lemme play for a minute
<moquist> sbalneav: In the source, the dash 'read' builtin executes this:
<sbalneav> moquist
<moquist> read(0, &c, 1)
<sbalneav> echo "foo bar baz" | while read I J K ; do
<sbalneav>     echo "$I $J $K"
<sbalneav> done
<sbalneav> Wierd.
<sbalneav> But works :)
<moquist> yeah...totally weird.
<sbalneav> It's completely non-intitive
<sbalneav> err
<sbalneav> intuitive
<moquist> no, that doesn't work the same way. It gets read to read through stdin, though.
<monteslu> does dash stand for something? Boure again I can understand
<sbalneav> "Don't Ask"?
<monteslu> sweet
<monteslu> guess cash would have been confusing
<moquist> sbalneav: it sets I repeatedly
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> $ ./foo.sh
<sbalneav> foo bar baz
<moquist> that's maybe OK, but I might as well be using 'sed' by this point.
<moquist> a=`echo "a\nb\nc"`; echo "$a" | while read I J K ; do echo i: $I; echo j: $J; echo k: $K; done
<moquist> that'll show ya. :)
<sbalneav> Ah, well, you've got NEWLINES in there.
<sbalneav> Didn't tell me that :)
<moquist> true.
<moquist> come to think of it, I won't have them.
<moquist> Maybe your code works after all. :-)
<sbalneav> Could always do a echo ".." | tr '\n' ' ' | while...
<moquist> that is so weird.
<sbalneav> Yeah, you can see why they came up with bash
<sbalneav> posix shell is kinda limited.
<moquist> echo foo bar baz | if read I J K; then echo i: $I; echo j: $J; echo k: $K; fi
<moquist> it works, churns the proc, and then... SEGFAULT!
<sbalneav> you can FORCE it to do what you want.  But messily
<sbalneav> SEGFAULT!
<sbalneav> I gotta try that
<sbalneav> $ echo foo bar baz | if read I J K; then echo i: $I; echo j: $J; echo k: $K; fi
<sbalneav> i: foo
<sbalneav> j: bar
<sbalneav> k: baz
<sbalneav> Seems ok on mine.
<moquist> really? double WTF.
<moquist> again. crashed my dash and dumped me back into bash.
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~$ dash
<sbalneav> $  echo foo bar baz | if read I J K; then echo i: $I; echo j: $J; echo k: $K; fi
<sbalneav> i: foo
<sbalneav> j: bar
<sbalneav> k: baz
<sbalneav> $ exit
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~$
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> you on gutsy or feisty?
<sbalneav> that was on gutsy
<sbalneav> Woah!
<sbalneav> Feisty it segfaults!
<sbalneav> $ echo foo bar baz | if read I J K; then echo i: $I; echo j: $J; echo k: $K; fi
<sbalneav> i: foo
<sbalneav> j: bar
<sbalneav> k: baz
<sbalneav> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<sbalneav> man, THAT's a bug!
<Kamping_Kaiser> neat
<moquist> sbalneav: echo "foo bar baz" | (read x y z; echo x: $x y: $y z: $z)
<sbalneav> yeah, but now you're in a subshell
<moquist> $!$#. My vmware server just died again.
* moquist posts what he has on REVU
<RichEd> moquist: you still around ?
<moquist> yes
<RichEd> well hello then :)
<moquist> hello indeed
<flingle> hello, i am having trouble getting thin clients to boot from the server :(
<flingle> the pxe lan card boots up and detects the DHCP server, its assigned an ip address and then says TFTP... but doesnt seem to be doing anything at all
<flingle> there is no firewall on the edubuntu server.... iptables allows everything through
<flingle> the dhcp server is configed to:
<flingle> subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<flingle> range 192.168.1.20 192.168.1.200
<flingle> filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<flingle> option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<flingle> }
<flingle> any ideas what is going wrong? or what I have missed?
<flingle> anyone awake?
<ogra> thats all your dhcp config has ?
<ogra> i think your should have at least a network and netmask address ....
<ogra> and a broadcast entry
<ogra> add:   option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255;
<ogra> and:   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<ogra> beyond that make sure there is no other dhcp server running in that network anywhere
<flingle> i will add that, although there are two dhcp configs, there the one from dhcp3 and the one for ltsp
<flingle> but the ltsp one takes over it seems
<flingle> there are two eths, eth0 and 1, eth0 is the dhcp server
<flingle> i just added those lines into the dhcp3 config file, restarted it, will bootup the thin client now to see if it works
<flingle> hmmmz, still the same problem :(
<flingle> any other ideas?
<ogra> thats a stock edubuntu install ?
<ogra> or ubuntu with added ltsp server ?
<flingle> yup latest version
<flingle> default settings
<ogra> latest = feisty ? or latest dev release (gutsy)?
<flingle> sorry latest stable, feisty
<ogra> good ...
<ogra> so are you 100% sure there is no other dhcp server in your net (i.e. on a router or so)
<flingle> oh i remember your nick now, i read some guy having the same problem as me, and he mentioned you helped him out, cant remember the site now :(
<flingle> nope, i am just doing this as a test, just a server (edubuntu) + a thin client connected to each other through a hub
<ogra> hmm, weird
<ogra> did you tweak your inetd.conf or the settings for tftpd-hpa in /etc/default ?
<flingle> nope i read in some forums and compared, and they seem to be ok
<ogra> the tftp server should be started from inetd, there is a line for that in the inetd.conf file
<flingle> just left it as default
<flingle> yup, one sec, i will post it for you
<ogra> if its more than three or four lines, please use the pastebot
<ogra> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<flingle> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<ogra> good, thats fine then
<flingle> its ok i cant paste, i have to see the monitor and type in here, as that server is not connected to the network
<ogra> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 should have some kernel and initramfs files
<flingle> the dhcp server is working fine though, cause the thin client gets an ip and default gateway from the pxe bootup... just doesnt seem to load the linux image :(
<ogra> ok
<flingle> yup there are several files in there with some symlinks
<flingle> some .img files
<ogra> goo
<ogra> d
<flingle> and the pxelinux.0 file
<ogra> do you see any trace of the tftp request in your logs ?
<flingle> on which log can i check that? :( syslog ?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> something like: in.tftpd[18167] : tftp: client does not accept options
<flingle> nope nada
<ogra> hmm, its definately a dhcp problem then
<ogra> did you make any changes to /etc/hosts.allow or some such ?
<flingle> nope all at default
<flingle> will tail -f the syslog and bootup the thin client again to see what it logs
<ogra> is your second interface configured ? you said you have two
<flingle> yeah second interface = 192.168.1.2
<ogra> and the first one ?
<flingle> with same subnet mask
<flingle> first = 192.168.1.254
<ogra> well, there is your prob then :)
<flingle> would thin client setup work only on one eth?
<ogra> sure
<flingle> :O cause ltsp was telling me that it needed another adapter to be correctly configed, thats why i installed another eth card
<ogra> one interface is usually the thin client network... the other can act as dhcp client in another network ...
<flingle> :O
<flingle> how shall i config the other adapter? or shall i just remove it?
<ogra> dhcpd will detect the interface that has a static confoig and that matches the dhcpd.conf file
<flingle> yup they are both static and i have setup dhcp to use eth 0 which is the 192.168.1.254
<ogra> now you have configured both to be in the same network ... so it will just server on the first interface it finds
<ogra> plug the hub into the other interface  for a quuick fix :)
<flingle> i have changed it on /etc/default/dhcpd though
<ogra> or remove the second interface if you dont need it ...
<flingle> they are both plugged into the same hub hehz
<ogra> thats an option too, but having both in the same address space is a bad idea anyway ...
<ogra> eek
<ogra> that cant work then :)
<flingle> hehe
<ogra> just remove one (and revert the change to /etc/default
<ogra> )
<flingle> would it work if i just disable it?
<ogra> yes, and unplug
<flingle> ahz oki will try it ou
<flingle> t
<ogra> ethernet will not know where to send its packages to :)
<flingle> i getcha, oki i will do that now and come back with a result ;)
<ogra> the default setup for edubuntu is to have one interfaces statically configfured for ltsp ... the other usually does act as dynamic dhcp client ... so you can attach your server to an existing network without clashing with any existing dhcp server
<ogra> if you dont want internet connection its the easdiest to just use one interface ...
<cliebow> flingle:dont suppose you can fire up wireshark and look the network packets over?
<ogra> cliebow, both interfaces plugged to the same hub, both share the same ip space
<ogra> even wireshark wont know what to do with these packaets i suppose :)
<cliebow> dont suppose it is that next-server problem?
<ogra> nope
<flingle> fantastic ogra its working now
<flingle> thanks a lot for your help !
<ogra> :)
<flingle> one more question if you dont mine me asking
<ogra> i suspect you might get login probs now
<flingle> how come if there are two lan cards on the server, it wont work?
<ogra> best is to run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys if that is the case
<flingle> nah i logged in through a root login and it works :P just gotta try with normal level users
<ogra> two lan cards in the server wor4ks fine
<flingle> cheers
<ogra> (i'm currently working via such a setup)
<flingle> how is the extra card supposed to be configed?
<ogra> your probl4em is that you plugged both into the same hub *and* configured both for the same address sopace
<ogra> plug it into a different network (your LAN with the router for example)
<ogra> and configure it for this net ...
<ogra> (either with a static IP or as dhcp client)
<flingle> oki doki thnx once more ;)
<flingle> le f00d is h3r3 :))
<ogra> :)
<ogra> enjoy
<flingle> wants some chips?
<ogra> ah, no, i have cacke downstairs... just needs some coffee :)
<ogra> *cake
<flingle> heh
<flingle> cu l8r
<ogra> yup
<cliebow> ogrta:ohh both interfaces in same network...heh..i ve been there too 8~)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<th1a> hi RichEd.
<RichEd> hi th1a
<RichEd> chatting to my new boss today about the conference
<th1a> RichEd: You have a new boss?
* th1a is really out of the Canonical loop.
<jsgotangco> hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<sgonzalez> I have edubuntu 7.04 installed. It's been working for a while, and yes, I've added some stuff... I can be more specific if you need... but now when I log off, it hangs at the "Quit" screen... the one with the log off/hibernate/restart/shutdown/etc... I've rebooted twice. Any ideas?
<ogra> sgonzalez, likely bug 105709
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105709
<sgonzalez> ogra: thanks... that sounds about right. Seems like it shouldn't affect users other than myself so I'll wait until after school to try it. I appreciate it!
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey
<bddebian> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<sgonzalez> I'm trying to install x11vnc on my ltsp clients following these directions: wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients. After I chroot into the clients, I can't install x11vnc... says it's not found. I set up repos on my server and can install x11vnc there... is there another repo setting for clients? any idea why I can't install?
<LaserJock> ogra: what do you think about putting openclipart on the Addon CD?
<ogra> LaserJock, hmm
<ogra> quite space consuming i guess
<LaserJock> yeah
<sgonzalez> LaserJock & Ogra: I'd like to see templates for open office also... if it doesn't fit on a CD, can it be like an update that you run?
<LaserJock> ogra: 184MB total, but that's a lot for people to download too
<ogra> sgonzalez, it can go neither on the liveCd nor on the first server CD due to space constraints ...
<ogra> but itr could go on the server-addon CD
<ogra> LaserJock, 184M ???
<ogra> no way
<LaserJock> hehe, fine
<LaserJock> I didn't think it was *that* big but I just checked
<LaserJock> the png package is 138MB
<ogra> we'd need a third CD :)
<LaserJock> I wonder if the pngcrush it
<LaserJock> *they
<ogra> server-addon-content
<LaserJock> server-addon-clipart ;-)
<sgonzalez> ogra: maybe I'm too newbie, but can't there be a little script on the add-on CD that downloads this from somewhere on the web? Kind of like a repo?
<LaserJock> sgonzalez: I'd think that they would work just fine on the Addon CD
<LaserJock> we just need content
<LaserJock> and time to package it up
<sgonzalez> LaserJock: If there's space, I'd love to see these templates from here added too... http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/downloads/simpress/. The ones currently included in OO are limited and fairly lame. It makes my staff demand MS Office :)
<LaserJock> sgonzalez: looks roughly doable. There is a downloadable tarball and it seems to be either GPL or LGPL licensed
<sgonzalez> ogra: any chance you understand why I can't install x11vnc when I've chrooted into the terminal?
<ogra> sgonzalez, depends on the error
<sgonzalez> ogra: I did a "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386", then apt-get install x11vnc. The error was E: Couldn't find package x11vnc
<ogra> its in universe
<ogra> add universe to the sources.list in the chroot, run apt-get update there and then you should be able to get it
<sgonzalez> ogra: I have added it to the server... do I need to repeat this for ltsp? If so, do I stay chrooted and edit sources.list?
<ogra> right
<sgonzalez> ogra: thanks :)
<obiyoda> is there a way to set grub to boot off of the network for a thin client
<sgonzalez> Hi... I'm trying to use gconf-editor. Everything I read tells me to just type that in a terminal, but when I do, it tells me it can't open a display and then how to see a full list of command line options with --help. I read those and the man page but still can't get this to run. Suggestions?
<sbalneav> sgonzalez: You're sshing into a box?
<sgonzalez> sbalneav: nope, sitting at it
<sbalneav> You must be as a different user, then.
<sbalneav> gconf-editor needs the DISPLAY variable set up,
<sbalneav> so however you're running it, DISPLAY's not set up correctly.
<sgonzalez> sbalneav: Can I set this up? This is  a new install. I'm logged in as the only user (the one I created on install) and in sudo. I've done this before without a problem so I'm not sure what I've done differently this time.
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> you're in suod
<sbalneav> sudo
<sbalneav> if you want to run gconf as root, use gksu
<sgonzalez> sbalneav: that did it... thanks!
<balbir_> finally, I configured ltsp, and users are happy
<LaserJock> cool
<balbir_> but have some concern
<balbir_> right now I am using minimal configuration desktop
<balbir_> can we shift for some thin client
<balbir_> what is the recommended one
<balbir_> I know only WYSE
<balbir_> me using PXE for getting the client run, can we use XDMCP|RDP|ICA using ltsp in edubuntu
<balbir_> ping, any suggestion/recommendatoin
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what you are asking about exactly
<balbir_> oh sorry, let me eleborate it, sorry for being so consize
<balbir_> what should I use at the client side, if it's diskless computer which one should I use?
<LaserJock> which one of what?
<balbir_> I tried this http://www.wyse.com/products/winterm/S10/index.asp
<balbir_> any recommendation for client side configuration
<LaserJock> ohhh, I get you now
<LaserJock> it is just for LTSP?
<RichEd> === edubuntu-devel meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === 15 mins
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> at least I got lunch in time
<Dimen> Hello all
<Dimen> I have a question relating to formatting an HD under edubuntu..  I need to format it using HFS+ but do not know how..
<RichEd> === edubuntu-devel meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === now
<LaserJock> Dimen: HFS+ yikes
<LaserJock> Dimen: I think you'll need to google around and be careful
<Dimen> that bad huh?
<Dimen> heh..  I'm putting an image on it (OS X...  using the dd command..) and it doesn't seem to be working..
<Dimen> i thought maybe formatting it in HFS+ instead of FAT32 might help..
<Dimen> well, even after formatting to fat32 (which i just did) i'm trying to drag a file to the new drive and it's saying that I do not have permission..  how do i get permission? :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> just making an HFS+ partition should be doable I think
<LaserJock> althought with dd do you even need to do that?
<Dimen> i guess not..  but it's not working so I don't know what's up..  Also, i just tried to copy again using the cp command.  same error unless i use sudo.  any way around using sudo cause i'd hate to have to use the command line every time i want to copy a file..
<Dimen> i just don't understand the point of having to use the command line in edubuntu to write files to usb disks and what not..
<LaserJock> Dimen: why do you have to?
<Dimen> LaserJock: Image editing can't be done if you can't write to a file, right?
<LaserJock> well, you can save it as another file
<Dimen> LaserJock:  Or if I have a hard disk and want to backup all my images...
<Dimen> it won't let me write to the disk..  here are the permissions drwxr-xr-x
<Dimen> laserjock: can't save it as another file if I don't have write access.
<LaserJock> well, you have bigger issues then
<LaserJock> is this in your home directory?
<Dimen> nope, i'm using the ubuntu live CD..  and just want to write to the hard disk in my computer
<Dimen> i mounted hda1 to /media/hda1
<ogra> and hda1 is hfs+ ?
<Dimen> nope, fat32, and the only way to copy files to hda1 is via a terminal window as such "sudo cp filename /media/hda1
<LaserJock> ah
<Dimen> know how to fix that?
<LaserJock> well, that's pretty common to mount it that way from a LiveCD
<LaserJock> you could just a file browser using sudo
<Dimen> how do i do that?
<LaserJock> in a terminal I think you can run gksudo nautilus and it should work
<LaserJock> it might be somewhere in the menu too but I can't remember
<Dimen> nice, thank you, that really helps
<LaserJock> Dimen: that's basically running the file browser as root so be careful ;-)
<Dimen> lol, well if there isn't another option....
<Dimen> what's so bad about running it as root though?
<LaserJock> well, you can accidentally remove files important for the system to run, for instance
<Tirion> Hello! I want  work with russian translation of Edubuntu Handbook. Please told me, how can I join to the translation team.
<LaserJock> Tirion: you might what to talk to #ubuntu-translators or #ubuntu-ru
<Tirion> Thank you.
<RichEd> Tirion: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu
<sbalneav> ok, heading home.
<sbalneav> be on tonight.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: If you find out how to build the doco package from the svn, email me.
<sbalneav> then I can daily update in my ppa.
<sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
#edubuntu 2007-08-30
* sbalneav skips arount the living room
<sbalneav> Yay! New ltsp packages!
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Sitting in #ubuntu_doc?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you're a Launchpad Beta Tester?
<sbalneav> I don't think so.
<sbalneav> I *use* launchpad.
<LaserJock> I think you have to be a beta tester to use PPAs right now
<sbalneav> I suppose if it's in beta, and I'm using it, I'm a beta tester.
<sbalneav> Heh, well, I activated it :)
<sbalneav> Maybe sabdfl likes me :)
<sbalneav> I guess what I was hoping was to do daily pkg publishes of the documents, so people could look at 'em in yelp, and follow allong as I went.
<sbalneav> That way, if someone sent me even just TEXT they wanted included, I could format it, and get it in, and they'd see rapid feedback.
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm thinking of doing the same thing
<sbalneav> Hmm, just seeing if what I think will work, will work.
<nixternal> PPAs aren't beta anymore...they are available for everyone now
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> here's what I've done, which, sadly, doesn't work...
<sbalneav> cd ubuntu-doc
<sbalneav> svn export edubuntu ~/edubuntuwork
<sbalneav> cd ~edubuntuwork
<sbalneav> dch -i <make up lies about my work>
<sbalneav>  debuild -S -sa -rfakeroot
<sbalneav> which produces:
<sbalneav>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<sbalneav> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<sbalneav> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk: No such file or directory
<sbalneav> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk'.  Stop.
<sbalneav> debuild: fatal error at line 1248:
<sbalneav> fakeroot debian/rules clean failed
<sbalneav> Ah, needed to install cdbs
<sbalneav> ok, so, I've got a targz, and a dsc.
<sbalneav> Now, that's what I upload to the ppa?
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> hang on
<LaserJock> first of all, it's not going to work quit right
<LaserJock> the package needs some stuff outside edubuntu/
<LaserJock> I svn export the whole ubuntu-doc
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/edubuntu-doc$ dput edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<sbalneav> Upload package to host ubuntu
<sbalneav> Already uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com
<sbalneav> Doing nothing for edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<sbalneav> Hmm.
<sbalneav> Well, I've uploaded SOMETHING, but my ppa shows no builds in progress, and nothing in my archive.
<sbalneav> Also, they talk about putting ~ppa in the package name, not sure how I'd go about doing that.  Editing debian/rules?
<LaserJock> umm, you tried to upload to Ubuntu dude :-)
<sbalneav> That's what the docs said.  What would that be, the .dput.cf?
<sbalneav> here's mine:
<sbalneav> [my-ppa] 
<sbalneav> fqdn = upload.launchpad.net
<sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ubuntu/
<sbalneav> login = anonymous
<sbalneav> pretty much what was in the getting started doc.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so you need to do dput my-ppa *_source.changes
<sbalneav> ahhh
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I'm assuming I won't screw anything up for ubuntu :)
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> you don't have rights
<LaserJock> so it'll just reject it
<sbalneav> That's what I figured.
<sbalneav> hmm, ok
<sbalneav> well, went up to my-ppa
<sbalneav> ok, got the reject message on my first blunder :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Still awake?
<sbalneav> Rejected:
<sbalneav> Could not find PPA for 'sbalneav'
<sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<sbalneav> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main' of file
<sbalneav> +'edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1.dsc'
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> hey hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> How's it going, RichEd?
<RichEd> okay ... and yourself ?
<sbalneav> Doing fine.
<sbalneav> Main development's done, so now I'm working on doc.
<RichEd> good stuff
<sbalneav> Tried to get the new PPA going last night, so I could issue daily updates to people on doc, and get feedback, but it doesn't appear to be working for me.
<sbalneav> I'll snag ogra when he shows up.
* RichEd was just getting up of my chair, and misread "snag ogra" as "shag ogra" !
* ogra hides
<ogra> lol
<RichEd> yep ... better hids ogra
<RichEd> *hide
<ogra> shagged by the bumblebee man ....
<ogra> sbalneav, hmm, dont ask me for ppa ... i havent used them myself yet
<sbalneav> LOL
* ogra tries to wrap his head around d-i stuff and is currently redoing the udeb :/
<sbalneav> YOU were the one who POINTED me to it yesterday, you bugger! :)
<ogra> my brain hurts
* sbalneav gives ogra a noogie.
<ogra> sbalneav, i *will* use them some day :)
<sbalneav> Hey, not a huge panic, but localdevs are borken now, because we haven't updated the ltspfs stuff.  All the stuff for gutsy's in my ltspfs-nodm tree.
<ogra> yep, i know
<sbalneav> okie.
<ogra> currently the udeb is more important
<ogra> i need that fixed for tribe6
<sbalneav> You do that voodoo that you do so well.
<ogra> ah, well
<ogra> the d-i stuff is freaky
<ogra> you cant use stdin/out but need to redirect every bit through fifos
* ogra has little clouds coming out of his ears if he tries to follow the data flow here
<ogra> but hey, we have progress reporting in the installer now :)
<ogra> now to find out the number of lines a ltsp-build-client spills out
<sbalneav> lots, one expects
<sbalneav> certainly one for every one of the ='s, and the spinny thing too.
<ogra> hrm ... why does it stop now ?
<ogra> gah
<ogra>  Error: 'C' is not a supported language or locale
<sbalneav> That's bad
<ogra> well, we usually have a locale set if the udeb runs
<ogra> i just need to source /etc/environment i guess
<ogra> grr ...
<monteslu> ogra, any idea how to globally set keyboard type in 7.04 ?
<ogra> for te system of for ltsp ?
<ogra> *the
<monteslu> both, I think. didn't notice if it's wierd on the server
<monteslu> is it in xorg?
<ogra> no, it gets read from the server by ltsp-build-client and set to the same value in the client chroot
<ogra> if you want to change the default, use lts.conf
<monteslu> cool. I'll try that.
<monteslu> you gonna be around in about an hour and fifteen minutes?
<ogra> likely
<sbalneav> ogra: Something we might want to do, now that we have an rdesktop script, is include the rdesktop application in the chroot by default.  It's not that big.
<ogra> is it in main
<ogra> ?
<sbalneav> Good question.
<monteslu> in ltsp4 i tried using rdesktop on screen_08 and startx on screen_07, worked but it would break after toggling twice or so
<monteslu> probably something that should be tested
<sbalneav> ltsp4? or 5?
<monteslu> 4
<sbalneav> heh, well, I'll test it in 5.
<sbalneav> In 4, I don't care anymore :)
<monteslu> it would be much nicer than having the teachers login just to fire up tsclient
<monteslu> also, the rdesktop script in ltsp4 wouldn't do the same keyboard mapping as startx... I think the numberpad didn't work
<monteslu> that might have been fixed though
<cliebow> i Love my 4!!and my 5!
<cliebow> be nice to my 4 8~)
<monteslu> is crossposting to edubuntu-users and k12osn a no-no ?
<ogra> no
<monteslu> cool. seems like a lot of the same people on both.
<bddebian> Heya
<moquist> ogra: how goes it?
<ogra> very bad ...
<ogra> fighting with installer stuff ... weird redirects etc
<moquist> :(
<ogra> seems there is no way to do waht i want due to debconf limitations
<moquist> Ai; that sucks.
* moquist will ask for details over beer in Boston
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<LaserJock> hi ogra and moquist
<moquist> LaserJock: hey
<moquist> does apt-get not handle Recommends?
<moquist> I always get told about the recommendations and think "Gee, it would be nice if I could go ahead and install some of those without re-running my command", but I've never looked into this.
<moquist> Now it's turning out to be relevant for the moodle package, which only Recommends postgresql|mysql-server.
<moquist> Googling for this has not been immediately helpful.
<moquist> Ah - APT::Install-Recommends "true";
<ogra> moquist, if they arent recommends they will always be instaled
<LaserJock> Recommends: are only installed by apt-get for metapackages
<ogra> thats obvoiously not what you want if you have frontend server and DB separately
<ogra> moquist, thas why i said edubuntu-server would care for more details ;)
* moquist nods
<ogra> it will have a dep on the DB server
<ogra> but the moodle package needs to be installable standalone
<ogra> usually you only put stuff thats really needed to run the app into hard deps
<moquist> it just seems to stink if we have a package that lets an admin type 'apt-get install moodle' and have the installation fail because she didn't install a DB server package first. I guess she should pay attention to the Recommends...
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> if it won't install without it it should be Depends
<ogra> build a moodle-standalone package ;)
<ogra> apt-get install moodle gives you the frontend ... needs a webserver and DB client
<ogra> apt-get install moodle-standalone gives you the full fun :)
<ogra> just create it in the control file ... it only needs to have the right deps :)
<ogra> no content or anything
<sbalneav> LaserJock, ogra, can we have a 2 minute discussion on docs, when you're done moodling around?
<moquist> It sounds good to me. Are you serious? I'm for it. These packages could all be built from.... yes, the same(?) control file?
<ogra> right
<ogra> put it in the moodle source  ... (have a look at ltsp-server vs ltsp-server-standalone in the ltsp source)
<moquist> ogra: thanks for the tip. that's perfect and saves me asking later. :)
<LaserJock> ok, so where are we with moodle?
<LaserJock> is it basically ready?
<ogra> we're pretty overdue
<ogra> so it should be asap
<moquist> I can delete the upgrade stuff we don't care about from the preinst, NP.
<ogra> which one ? apache1 ?
<moquist> Changing the questions will require me to learn more stuff, and that will take *some* time, though hopefully not much.
<LaserJock> ok, what specifically needs to be done?
<moquist> LaserJock: did you see my email from last night?
<ogra> LaserJock, some debconf templates
<moquist> ogra: do we *need* that stuff before gutsy?
<ogra> (one more question)
<moquist> ogra: though if it's easy...*shrug*
<ogra> moquist, it needs to work
* moquist misunderstood ogra's previous comment
<ogra> i dont care about apache1 as i said ... but i care about people upgrading existing installs for example
<ogra> so that needs to work as well as new installs
<ogra> if both is fine we can go with it
<ogra> new installs should be fine with dropping apache1 stucc and adding one more low prio debconf question
<ogra> *stuff
<ogra> oh, and the -standalone metapackage
* moquist decides to work on this now instead of real work. Real work can wait until a time when ogra and LaserJock aren't both in #edubuntu.
<sbalneav> ogra: Who would I talk to about ppa?
<moquist> ogra: I think we should still check for the circumstance where the moodle package wants to "Remove include from httpd.conf when upgrading from older versions", and instead of using wwwconfig to actually muck with the config, we should print a helpful message and stop (as I said in my email). Do you agree?
<ogra> sbalneav, #launchpad probably
<ogra> moquist, stop is bad
<moquist> But the danger is a broken apache config. Surely that's worse?
<ogra> moquist, notify is ok and leave it to the admin to set this specific part up manually
<ogra> but dont stop the postinst for it
<moquist> This will only happen when somebody is upgrading from a system that has /etc/<webserver>/httpd.conf.
<moquist> No, this is preinst.
<ogra> well, preinst then
<moquist> OK, so don't stop.
<ogra> neither should stop :) but dont touch the config ....
* moquist nods
<ogra> notify the admin, tell him what to do
<ogra> and put the same info into README.Debian
<moquist> Oh...the installation TELLS you to make sure that mysql or postgres is installed before continuing.
* moquist wasn't reading carefully
<moquist> Should I do something like this right in preinst, I guess?
<moquist> db_input critical moodle/old_webserver_config || true
<moquist> That's only if we find the old configuration, etc. So it should almost never execute.
<ogra> right
<moquist> Well, it's not tested but I think #1 of my three questions is taken care of.
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> \o/  \o/  \/
<LaserJock> oh no, one of my cheerleader's heads fell off :(
<moquist> headbanging?
<moquist> \o/ \/ \o/ \/ \o/
<moquist> Do packages ever speak in 1st person? ("I can create a database for you, or you can do so manually...")
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<LaserJock> that'd be kinda creepy ;-)
<moquist> OK, no "I".
<ogra> sbalneav, so did you try to upload to your ppa already ?
<sbalneav> yeah, working on it now.
<sbalneav> kiko's giving me love
<sbalneav> ogra: mabey you know:
<sbalneav> dput my-ppa edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<sbalneav> Already uploaded to upload.dogfood.launchpad.net
<sbalneav> Doing nothing for edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<sbalneav> it failed yesterday because I wasn't a beta
<sbalneav> Now I is
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> or just dch -i again?
<ogra> dunno, i have no clue how it works internally
<ogra> kiko will tell you if he gives support already
<LaserJock> you don't want to upload to dogfood
<ogra> well, you want to upload to ppa.launchpad.net
<ogra> sbalneav, is your dput.cf ok ?
<sbalneav> yeah, things have changed since yesterday :)
<sbalneav> Sometimes, being an early adopter has it's drawbacks.
<sbalneav> I'm fiddling now.
<sbalneav> The one quiestion is, how do I get the suffix ~ppa on the package, like the doco suggests?  Edit debian/rules?
<LaserJock> debian/changelog
<ogra> its part of the version number ...
<sbalneav> so just dch -i, and change the name?
<ogra> you have to rebuild the source package
<ogra> with the fixed version number
<sbalneav> Why do I always think these things are MORE complicated than they are :)
<ogra> than you can dch
<sbalneav> Hmm, how do I build the source package from the doco repo? LaserJock?  Last night I just did a svn export edubuntu ~/foo, then I went into ~/foo, did a dch -i, and then a debbuild
<LaserJock> debuild -S
<ogra> or dpkf-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
<ogra> *dpkg
<LaserJock> but you need to watch watch what debian/ you are working with
<LaserJock> if you do a svn export you need to rm debian/ and cp the one from edubuntu/
<sbalneav> I was working with the one in the edubuntu directory
<sbalneav> oh, I just exported the edubuntu sub dir by itself
<sbalneav> is that ok?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> let's do it step by step
<sbalneav> Okie doke, I'm with you.
<sbalneav> K, sitting here with an up-to-date repo.
<LaserJock> k, so I svn export ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/src/svn/trunk$ mkdir ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/src/svn/trunk$ svn export ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
<sbalneav> svn: '/home/sbalneav/tmp/edubuntu-docs' is not a working copy
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> svn export . ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> gotta tell it to export the current directory, my bad
<sbalneav> ok, done
<ogra> LaserJock, its just one pixel difference :)
<sbalneav> move the top level debian to debian.foo, and move edubuntu/debian ..?
<LaserJock> ok, hang on a sec
<sbalneav> hanging
<LaserJock> ok, so you can rm -rf debian kubuntu xubuntu teamstuff website-index generic incoming ubuntu
<sbalneav> Ok, so sudo cd / ; rm -rf *, got it.
<LaserJock> heh
* sbalneav disconnected
<sbalneav> heh
<ogra> bzr revert / ?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I also did rm Makefile validate.sh yelptest
<sbalneav> cat /dev/random > /dev/eth0, ok
* sbalneav is getting goofy
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/tmp/edubuntu-docs$ ls
<sbalneav> build  common  edubuntu  libs
<LaserJock> mv edubuntu/debian .
<sbalneav> done
<LaserJock> go into build
<sbalneav> yup
<sbalneav> edubuntu  folder.info  generic  kubuntu  styleguide  ubuntu
<LaserJock> and remove the dirs not edubuntu
<sbalneav> Done.
<LaserJock> go into ../libs/
<LaserJock> and remove pdf/
<sbalneav> k
<ogra> woah
<ogra> thats a good bunch of work
<sbalneav> It can be scripted :)
<sbalneav> Ok, what's next.
<LaserJock> ok, I think that's it
<LaserJock> it should be ready to dch, etc.
<LaserJock> and build
<sbalneav> ok, lets see.
<sbalneav> Where do I add the ~ppa to the package name, while I'm editing during the dch?
<ogra> to the *version*
<sbalneav> edubuntu-docs (7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1) gutsy; urgency=low
<sbalneav> like that?
<ogra> yeps
<sbalneav> ok, for my ~/.dput.cf
<sbalneav> [my-ppa] 
<sbalneav> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ubuntu/
<sbalneav> login = anonymous
<sbalneav> ~
<sbalneav> ubuntu on line 3? or edubuntu?
<ogra> ubuntu
<sbalneav> okay.
<sbalneav> ok, uploaded
<sbalneav> lets see if it builds
* ogra looks at https://launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<ogra> do you know when the cronjob runs ?
<ogra> (did kiko tell you ?)
<sbalneav> No, I don't
<sbalneav> no, he didn't
<ogra> so we'll wait :)
<sbalneav> Maybe on our second date :)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> i bet you met more than twice already
* sbalneav twiddles thumbs, jiggles leg excitedly
<sbalneav> yeah, I've seen him lots of times.  He's about 1x10^5000 X as cool as I'll ever hope to be. :)
<sbalneav> ooooaahhh!
<sbalneav> Got an email...
<sbalneav> [PPA sbalneav]  Accepted:
<sbalneav>  OK: edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1.tar.gz
<sbalneav>  OK: edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
<sbalneav>      -> Component: main Section: text
<ogra> YAY
<sbalneav> Now, we just gotta wait for it to build.
<sbalneav> This is too sweet.
<sbalneav> So, once it builds, and I'll try a test install, if that works, then I'll email -devel, and -users, let them know how to add my ppa-archive to their sources.list, and we should be good to go.
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Then for the next few weeks, I'll just do a daily braindump of what I'm working on, and we can get some feedback!
<sbalneav> LaserJock++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
<LaserJock> sbalneav: got it scripted now?
<sbalneav> No, I'll do that tonight :)
<sbalneav> I'll have to remember to keep the changelog around when I re-export.
<LaserJock> when you do maybe dump it in edubuntu/ when you do
<LaserJock> so we can all enjoy ;-)
<sbalneav> I shouldn't svn commit this ppa changelog, should I?
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> let's just commit them when we actually upload
<LaserJock> changelog would get huge ;-)
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> RAWK ON DUUUDZ!!
<sbalneav> https://launchpad.net/%7Esbalneav/+archive
<ogra> geez
<ogra> cool!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: good, except the version is wrong ;-)
<LaserJock> well, maybe not exactly
<sbalneav> What'd I do?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about how to handle that
<LaserJock> well the version is based on the month, like the release versions
<LaserJock> so since it's the 8th month it should be 7.08
<LaserJock> 7.08.1 since it would be the first upload this month
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter for your ppa stuff until I upload a new version
<LaserJock> but I just thought I'd let you know the versioning scheme
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Hm, don't think it grabbed it...
<sbalneav> ogra: added:
<sbalneav> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/sbalneav/ubuntu gutsy main
<ogra> good
<sbalneav> to my sources.list
<sbalneav> however:
<sbalneav> Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net gutsy/main Packages
<sbalneav> on apt-get update
<ogra> sure
<ogra> there is no binary yet :)
<sbalneav> Oh, hasn't built yet?
<ogra> if it shows up here https://launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<ogra> then you have a binary
<ogra> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/sbalneav/ubuntu gutsy main
<ogra> should give you a source package to download though
<ogra> (apt-get source)
<sbalneav> What would I apt-get?
<sbalneav> Hmm, cant apt-get edubuntu-docs, that gets the main ones.
<ogra> source should get the new one (after apt-get update indeed)
<sbalneav> So it does.
<sbalneav> ok, so we just have to wait for the package to build on launchpad.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it's not instantaneous to build packages you know ;-)
<sbalneav> DARNIT, WHY NOT?!?!
<sbalneav> I demand instant gratification.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you should see what happens when OO.o gets uploaded
<sbalneav> I can only imagine.
<sbalneav> I tried compiling it once, in the old 0.8 days.
<sbalneav> Once was enough.
<ogra> sbalneav, make some billions and push them in the datacenter for faster and more machines ;)
<sbalneav> Dude, how many Billionairs does this project need :-D
<LaserJock> more
<LaserJock> :-)
<sbalneav> Edubuntu: spawn more overlords
<sbalneav> Sorry, starcraft jokes.
<complique> hello everyone
<ogra> hi
<sbalneav> Alright!
<sbalneav> Binary package built, and it upgrades!
<sbalneav> Whoohoo
<sbalneav> I'll post something to the list tonight.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Thanks for your help.  We'll be able to get edubuntu-docs package updates daily.
<ogra_> wow, nice
<sbalneav> I'm thinking we should just leave the current version number until string freeze.  At that point, I'll stop with massive updates, and we can release "proper" packages, as opposed to my ppa.
<ogra_> right
<sbalneav> ogra_: See my docs?
<ogra_> your ppa should just always have a lower version than the final distro one
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what've you added since the last package?
<sbalneav> A ton, I've documented the nbd root stuff, began docs on the load balancing, but fgiraldeau said he wanted to do something on that, so I'll let him send me someting...
<ogra_> sbalneav, yup, seeing it
<ogra_> i havent downloaded it yet
<sbalneav> I've begun to break stuff up into topics, not sure how the whole "topic based help" thing's going to work in practice, but at least the handbooks getting more... err... topicy.
<sbalneav> I'm going to sit down tonight and write up a chapter on some network topologies, etc.
<sbalneav> So lots of good things going in there.
<sbalneav> ogra_: Where are we at with SCP?
<sbalneav> Need a hand, still?
<ogra_> yeah
<sbalneav> Want me to do a apt-get source, and create a bzr tree for it tonight?
<sbalneav> I'll start fixing some bugs.
<ogra_> the userlist generation is still not working (actually i didnt look yet and the udeb thing seems to get quite tricky)
<LaserJock> ogra_: oh, I was reading the script that creates the download pages on cdimage.u.c , etc.
<sbalneav> I can fix that, I'm sure.
<LaserJock> ogra_: and I think I could pretty easily hack it to do better with Edubuntu
<ogra_> talk to colin about that
<ogra_> he wrote most of it
<ogra_> afaik
<ogra_> or it moved over to newz2000
<ogra_> not sure
<LaserJock> the issues I see are 1) the desktop CD should *not* be the recommended install method  2) the addon cd should really be Edubuntu Addon CD not Edubuntu Server Addon CD
<LaserJock> ogra_: well, there's a script in ubuntu-cd
<LaserJock> I was assuming it's still being used
<sbalneav> ogra_: You make any changes in your tree today?
<ogra_> LaserJock, thing with the addon is that you might miss deps that are on the server CD
<ogra_> sbalneav, ltsp ? no
<sbalneav> k
<ogra_> LaserJock, so it would need a network connection or the server CD around if you use it for example on a xubuntu machine
<LaserJock> ogra_: hmm
<ogra_> the name ties it to the server CD somehow
<LaserJock> we'll we should at least change the description
<ogra_> and since the liveCD is fixed ...
<LaserJock> since you *can* use it on Ubuntu even
<ogra_> hmm
<LaserJock> we should check deps though, it might be that it could be fine
<LaserJock> but it's just a .deb repo
<ogra_> well, i'm pondering to let SCP die and pull italc in ...
<ogra_> that would bring for example QT on the server CD
<ogra_> (no KDE though)
<ogra_> which then will be missing on the addon CD
<ogra_> and not be available on xu or ubuntu
<ogra_> might get users unexpected results ...
<sbalneav> italc?
<ogra_> so we shouldnt point them to try actually
<ogra_> apt-cache show italc-master italc-client
<ogra_> http://italc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/italc-1.0.0_01.jpg
<ogra_> sbalneav, ^^^
<ogra_> its looking a bit scary on first sight though
<ogra_> http://italc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/italc-1.0.0_02.jpg
<sbalneav> hm
<LaserJock> well, it seems like quite a few people use it
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> but it doesnt go well with ldm connections yet
<ogra_> that needs a hand
<ogra_> and i'm not convince by the security model
<LaserJock> it would be nice to be able to have like "we are officially going to make this our default, but here it is"
<LaserJock> I guess that could be an edubuntu-universe package or something
<ogra_> i played a lot with it when we visited the guadalinex driven school in sevilla
<ogra_> and it was pretty easy to circumvent the client
<ogra_> that will need some deep thought first
<ogra_> i'll put it on the UDS agenda
<sbalneav> Okiedoke
<sbalneav> I'm heading home.
<ogra_> as nice and small as SCP is, i dont have the time to constantly maintain it and since pete just dropped develpment without and word nobody picked it up
<LaserJock> sbalneav: just a sec
<sbalneav> okay
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I was going to ask if it was worth me uploading a new edubuntu-docs package today
<ogra_> s/and/any/
<sbalneav> Lets hold off on that.
<ogra_> LaserJock, looks like we might skip tribe6
<sbalneav> That way, I can post my mailing to the list, and get people using that.
<ogra_> if so, there is no hurry
<LaserJock> ogra_: how so?
<sbalneav> ?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no problemo
<ogra_> we asked for it ...
<sbalneav> edubuntu will skip tribe 6, or Ubuntu in general will skip 6?
<ogra_> LaserJock, i cant keep up with bugfixing if i build CDs all the time
<ogra_> sbalneav, not clear yet
<ogra_> but there was a meeting where the topic came up, will be a mail discussion soon
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra_> (on -devel i guess)
<sbalneav> keep me posted.
<LaserJock> hmm, so should I still send a Fix-it-Friday mail?
<sbalneav> OK, heading out.
<ogra_> i'm all for skipping :)
<LaserJock> I think we should still do it
<ogra_> yeah, in any case
<sbalneav> be on later.
<sbalneav> +1 for still having FIF
#edubuntu 2007-08-31
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Ping!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pong, real quick
<sbalneav> Se my mail?
<sbalneav> See, even?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I gotta run, inlaws are here
<sbalneav> okay, have fun!
<sbalneav> Back in a minute, switching to downstairs box.
<sbalneav> Back
<mohamed_> hi, i installed  eudbuntu and want to add some software to use it as medacenter, i need to upgrade ltsp  server like the main system i mean two systems must be like each others, or i only need to work with main system not on ltsp  ?
<sbalneav> mohamed_: Sorry, not sure I understand.  Do you have a couple of workstations, or a couple of thin clients?
<mohamed_> i have one server and more clients ...
<mohamed_> on the server i need to install freevo,vdr ...etc
<mohamed_> my question is that i make this only once ...
<mohamed_> or i need to chroot for ltsp and install it agaain ?
<mohamed_> to be able to see   it on the client side
<mohamed_> i'm sorry for my english lang, if the question is not clear i can write another way :)
<sbalneav> No, if you install it on the server, the thin clients should see it.
<mohamed_> then i don't need  for  chroot and working with ltsp ?
<sbalneav> You shouldn't need to, no.
<mohamed_> thx sbalneav
<LaserJock> sbalneav: still up
<LaserJock> ?
<sbalneav> You know it.
<sbalneav> No rest for the wicked.
<sbalneav> The new yelp's pretty zoooomy
<LaserJock> yeah?
<LaserJock> that's cool
<sbalneav> Are we going to get the handbook back on the main page again, rather than forcing the users to go to "Other documentation?"
<LaserJock> I've got to talk to mdke about that
<LaserJock> the whole Ubuntu frontpage got wiped out
<sbalneav> So, what did you think of my email? :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you know, we could build that package for feisty too :-)
<sbalneav> Which, the docs?
<LaserJock> so people don't have to be using gutsy to test the documentation
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> Sure, other than the fact that lots have changed since feisty, so if they install my package, then how to they revert back to the OLD doco later?
<LaserJock> remove the repo
<LaserJock> plus, who reads the docs? ;-)
<sbalneav> heh
<LaserJock> it's easy to do a feisty one
<LaserJock> you just need to change the changelog
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> sure, I can do that tomorrow.
<LaserJock> I was just thinkin'
<sbalneav> It's a good idear
<LaserJock> cause a lot of Edubuntu people don't want to upgrade to gutsy just to test docs
<sbalneav> It'll be interesting to see if anyone responds with some content.
<LaserJock> yeah, I need to blog it
<sbalneav> Hmmm, ollie says viewing processes doesn't work under tcm, but I can't get it to fail.
<vova> vvvvvvvvvvv
<vova> fak
<humbolto> How are the edubuntu FAT CLIENTS plans evolving? Was there anything implemented yet? What about edubuntu LDAP server for example?
<ogra> humbolto, the ubuntu server team is implementing it, the client side will be in gutsy ... server in gutsy+1
<ogra> since fat clients 100% rely on a working network auth mechanism we wont have fat clients before that
<ogra> RichEd, i'll be out early today (my mom's b-day), is there anything urget i'm missing that needs to be done today ?
<RichEd> nope ... seems fine & quiet
* ogra made a major setp forward tonight on bug 121547 ... should be fixed over the weeken
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<RichEd> tell your mom I say happy happy
<ogra> willdo :)
<RichEd> cool re bug :)
<ogra> yeah
<cliebow> awhat was hanging?
<RichEd> does she also live in kassel ? or will you travel to her
<ogra> took me two days of work to get that prototype going
<ogra> cliebow, the UI
<cliebow> ahh
<ogra> my parents live in hannover (150km)
<ogra> i havent seen them since a year (i'm such a bad son :P)
<highvoltage> ogra: don't feel that bad. my mother lives 1.5km from me, and there was a period last year where I was so busy I didn't see her for 3 months
<humbolto> ogra: anyhow, having fat clients in gutsy+1 is still cool!
<Kamping_Kaiser> gutsy+1=LTS oder?
<humbolto> Kamping_Kaiser: yes
* Kamping_Kaiser takes an intrest in gutsy+1
<humbolto> ogra: Since the auth client will already be in gutsy (LDAP I guess), when one sets up the server side himself, do LTPS fat clients already work?
<ogra> with manual fiddling, yes
<humbolto> ogra: which does not happen to be documented anywhere.
<ogra> you need to install ubuntu-desktop and the ldap client in the chroot and make some tweaks so it doesnt run as thin client
<ogra> there was a guy at ubuntulive i still need to contact him, but he wanted to do some testing and write up a howto
<humbolto> ogra: will the fat client mount the servers root and an extra etc or how will this be done?
<ogra> so we'll have the easiest procedure ready for gutsy+1
<humbolto> ogra: great
<ogra> it will work like a thin client, mount its readonly root visa nbd from the server and merge that in a readwrite unionfs ...
<humbolto> ogra: I like how you guys think!
<humbolto> via ndb? why not via nfs? because of the readwrite overlay?
<ogra> what we need to do is to suppress the unwanted config changes we need for thin clients
<ogra> we dont use nfs anymore since gutsy
<ogra> nbd/unionfs is three times as fast
<humbolto> ogra: What is the reason for that?
<ogra> speed mainly
<ogra> and size ...
* ogra was able to boot a gutsy client with MEM=24M in the kernel commandline
<humbolto> ogra: You use nbd for the thin client side as well?
<ogra> even though that has to do with the fact that we mount nbd swap from initramfs if needed now :)
<ogra> yes, you need to use it on both sides
<humbolto> And the transition to that when you upgrade from edgy or feisty is smooth?
<humbolto> Or some manual fiddling needed?
<ogra> heh, i havent looked at the yet :)
<humbolto> Is there a place to check what the status of all these things is currently and what your plans are? The launchpad stuff seems somewhat inaccurate.
<ogra> but since our usual recommendation is anyway to rebuild your chroot on upgrades ...
<ogra> i try to document on the wiki as i implement stuff
<ogra> at least in a rough way
<humbolto> ogra: Not as far as the chroot is concerned, but as far as dhcpd.conf and stuff are concerned.
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
<ogra> the server side will be fine
<ogra> and i actually plan to have the client side upgradeable properly (we plan update,-manager integration for it at some point, thats a prerequisite)
<humbolto> cool
<humbolto> I always tried to follow LTSP specs and blueprints on launchpad to keep track with development. But this is kind of difficult, as they hardly reveal where you guys are in development. Do you guys have blogs or something else, which would give me a little more insight on where you are at currently.
<humbolto> And which wiki docs you add, which you updated, what your new plans are?
<ogra> well, monitor https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP i usually add them there
<ogra> beyond that i updated all ltsp related specs last week befopre the edubuntu meeting :)
<ogra> and usually give a report there as well
<ogra> since will  is gone we dont have anyone doing the meeting minutes anymore though ... we should find someone again for that task and probably send summaries to the ML
<humbolto> ogra: Found your blog. Like your report about Poland lots!
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> if i only had more time ... since poland i could have writte at least five more like that one :)
<ogra> my travelling is always adventurous ;)
<ogra> anyway, time to pack up for me .... back later in the evening ...
<humbolto> CU
<roe> are there any first hand accounts or an article about deploying edubuntu successfully?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<moquist> sbalneav: morning
<sbalneav> lol, tried joining, and xchat sigsev'd
<sbalneav> hold on figuring out what I did wrong.
<sbalneav> Where, oh where can that og-a-ra be?
<sbalneav> Oh where oh where can be beeeeee?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, hi
<sbalneav> With his hair cut long and his sleeves cut short
<Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntugirl, other bots, members, and folks, evening
<edubuntugirl> Kamping_Kaiser: I'm not following you...
<sbalneav> oh wheeeere oh wheeeerre can he beeeeeeee
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
* sbalneav bows
* Kamping_Kaiser aplauds
<highvoltage> og-a-ra sounds like he's very similar to ogra
<sbalneav> I'm here all month folks, don't forget to tip your waitress.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: yeah, but I had to stretch it to 3 syllables :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I was talking about the long hair and short sleeves part :)
<sbalneav> yep.
<sbalneav> ogra's long flowing mane and penchant for muscle shirts.
* Kamping_Kaiser should find pictures of this o ga ra person
<Kamping_Kaiser> * og a ra
<highvoltage> over here, we call them "help-my-sterk-lyk hempies" which translates to "make-me-look-strong shirties"
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> me+muscle shirts=not much muscle showing
<sbalneav> In north america, they have the awful nickname of "Wife Beaters".
<sbalneav> One supposes becase miscreants with the aformentioned penchant tend to wear those kinds of shirts.
<highvoltage> *blink*
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<sbalneav> Maybe it's just a Canadian nickname.
* highvoltage will ask corey if he knows what a wife beater is when he says in again in ~2 weeks time
<sbalneav> In my line of work, I unfortunately see have to deal with that class of person from time to time.
<highvoltage> yes, very unfortunate. I pity the wifebeaters.
* highvoltage ducks
<sbalneav> eeep :)
* Kamping_Kaiser doesnt live far enough north to worry about those tops
<highvoltage> it's not easy doing that kind of work, but it's great that we have sbalneavses in this world
<Kamping_Kaiser> "The hedgehogs delemer" i like that one
<highvoltage> (apologies for doing that to your nick, btw)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<kslawson> anyone seen david trask recently around these parts?
<sbalneav> Not for a bit, no
<kslawson> ok.  i knew he'd had some experience putting ubuntu on mlti ibooks
<kslawson> i would try, now that we have an excess of them, but unfortunately i don't have any that use the old password which i knew, these are all imaged with the 2007 hs image.  and i don't have an SO-DIMM to reset the password
<kslawson> which will make servicing and imaging these machines a pain.  i don't want to have to send them to the depot for reimaging every time
<jsgotangco> highvoltage
<kslawson> whoa, is that the 2007 hs fw pw?
<kslawson> i've been trying to pry that from jeff mao for weeks
<kslawson> not that i heard it from you, of course
<kslawson> thank you.  no numbers in it?  just letters?
<bddebian> Heya
<roe> are there any first hand accounts or an article about deploying edubuntu successfully?
<sbalneav> roe: Check out the edubuntu-users mailing list archives.
<sbalneav> Some were posted there recently.
<roe> sbalneav, thanx
<mcsd> question, i have a few different models of Dell flatscreens and was having trouble displaying at 1280x1024.  I kept modifying the horizontal and vertical synch values and was able correct the problem...I provided a range rather than set values...is it possible to damage a monitor by exceeding its range?
<sbalneav> LCD's?
<mcsd> yes
<sbalneav> No, nothing you can do to damage an lcd by over or under driving, I think.
<mcsd> x.org makes no mention even with crts...or maybe I missed it
<sbalneav> that was an issue with tubes, because if you overdrive the horizontal flyback transformer, it'll go into harmonics and make smoke.
<sbalneav> lcd's are all digital, so worst case, you just get a "can't sync" message.
<mcsd> thanks
<Amaranth> of course i'm pretty sure any monitor made in the last 10 years of so just bails out and says "can't sync"
<LaserJock> moquist: status report sir
<LaserJock> sbalneav: get a feisty package built?
<sbalneav> Not yet.  I'm actually doing some doco right now, so when I get some stuff ready for a commit, then I'll cut some pakages.
<LaserJock> excellent
<sbalneav> I had a fellow ask me if there were going to be pdf's created ahead of time, so people could read the handbook before upgrading.  That possible/easy?
<LaserJock> you're committing to svn right?
<sbalneav> But of course.
<LaserJock> oh, yikes
<LaserJock> PDFs can be rough
<LaserJock> if it's in english I think it's possible
<LaserJock> the non-latin fonts get really hard
<sbalneav> I already told him "no", :) so don't sweat it.
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> I think we *should*
<LaserJock> but it might be after release that we get them done
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we can see
<LaserJock> after string freeze maybe we can do it
<LaserJock> mdke has some stylesheets and stuff for it
<sbalneav> Out for lunch
<moquist> LaserJock: I think it's done but I have a bug.
<moquist> dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute new pre-installation script: Exec format error
<moquist> LaserJock: I can't tell if it's the postinst, the preinst, or the config script.
<moquist> LaserJock: The error makes me think preinst, of course, but that script is fine.
<moquist> I replaced the contents of the file with 'exit 0' and I got the same error.
<moquist> I'm running into the limits of my debugging abilities in this context.
<moquist> LaserJock: I'll upload the source package.
<moquist> ...just in case anybody else wants to look at it.
<LaserJock> k
<moquist> http://majen.net/misc/src-moodle-1.8.2.tgz
* moquist shakes his head
<moquist> No, not that.
<moquist> LaserJock: any advice, btw? WTH is "Exec format error"?
<moquist> LaserJock: http://majen.net/misc/src-moodle-1.8.2.tgz <-- the right thing now
<LaserJock> moquist: not exactly, did you already have moodle installed? i.e. doing an upgrade vs installing fresh
<moquist> I haven't tested an upgrade yet.
<moquist> i.e., all fresh.
<LaserJock> so you remove moodle before trying it?
<moquist> Being unsure of whether or not that would be sufficient, I've been repeatedly restoring a VM that has never seen moodle.
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> ok, well that's pretty thorough
<moquist> Yeah...I'd like to learn more about the details of debconf so I can cut down on my testing cycle time. ;)
<moquist> It's really building the source that takes the most time, though.
<LaserJock> man this stuff is messy
<moquist> which stuff?
<LaserJock> I did the GNU hello app debian/rules in 2 lines ;-)
<LaserJock> anything with DB stuff
<LaserJock> the debconf, etc.
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> messy != bad
<LaserJock> I'm just saying there's a lot to it
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> moquist: what you could to is run the maintainer scripts individually
<LaserJock> to get more info maybe
<LaserJock> but that error really points to preinst
<LaserJock> ohh
<moquist> how can I run them individually as they are? I've been ripping out the debconf stuff and running them like this: 'sh postinst', but that's obviously not testing the "real thing"
<LaserJock> moquist:  hehe, #|! /bin/sh -e
<moquist> OMW. Really??!?
<moquist> UBFL.
<LaserJock> moquist:  btw, do ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/moodle*
<moquist> nuffink ist der.
* moquist has looked around in there
<moquist> ...sometimes. I'm sure something is there, sometimes.
<LaserJock> you can modify the scripts there and rerun dpkg
<LaserJock> because that's what actually gets executed
<moquist> ohhhhh
* moquist KNEW this had to be easier...
* moquist nods
<moquist> 'rerun dpkg' how?
<moquist> dpkg-reconfigure?
<moquist> dpkg?
<LaserJock> no
<moquist> dpkg moodle?
<moquist> apt-get install moodle?
<LaserJock> rerun the dpkg -i moodle
<moquist> ah.
<LaserJock> the hard-core devs use that a lot
<LaserJock> when the maintainer scripts get messed up
* moquist wants to grow up and be a hard-core dev
<LaserJock> and dpkg is throwing a fit
<LaserJock> they just mess around in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ until it runs
<moquist> that's very good to know. I've wanted to know that but not known who/how to ask.
<moquist> No - there's nothing in there for moodle.
<LaserJock> I've only done it once or twice
<LaserJock> hmm
<moquist> ls: /var/lib/dpkg/info/moo*: No such file or directory
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe it didn't make it that far
<LaserJock> because preinst choked
<moquist> Nah, that one didn't make it that far b/c I CTRL+Ced it. I didn't think about the fact that it hadn't unpackedyet.
<LaserJock> ah
<moquist> I've almost got src built again.
<LaserJock> great, hopefully that was the only problem
<LaserJock> easy fix
* moquist hopes
<moquist> I *think* I've got everything we've discussed except the metapackage.
<moquist> That's funny. Every once in a while I start typing shell commands when I don't realize my focus is wrong and I'm in vim, or something. I must've left a pipe in there and not noticed it. I guess.
<moquist> I even diffed the new and old preinsts and didn't see that.
<cbx33> LaserJock, this build queu seems never ending
<cbx33> over 2 hours now
<cbx33> think something is wrong?
<cbx33> unless they fix it, it seems like it takes a long long time to build
<LaserJock> cbx33: not neccesarily
<LaserJock> I expect this is only the beginning
<cbx33> probably
<LaserJock> think of how many people are going to jump on PPA
<cbx33> i want to try it out though :p
<cbx33> yeh but it's only beta at the mo
<LaserJock> OO.o takes 10+ hrs
<LaserJock> imagine if somebody put that on
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but looking at the build history
<cbx33> most are like
<cbx33> 3-4 minutes
<LaserJock> they've only got 1 i386 and 1 amd64 machine it looks like
<LaserJock> I expect once it's out of Beta they'll have to throw a lot of machines at it
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> definitely
<LaserJock> I haven't uploaded anything to the new PPAs
<LaserJock> but on dogfood is was pretty fast
<moquist> LaserJock: looks good so far...
<moquist> LaserJock: More testing is necessary, but \o/ \/ \o/ \/ \o/
<moquist> LaserJock: I presume I'm supposed to redirect output from postinst commands, so we don't see stuff like "Not creating home directory '/nonexistent'"
<moquist> and "CREATE ROLE/CREATE DATABASE"
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure actually
<LaserJock> you might see what other similar packages do
<moquist> I saw exec 0<&1 in the old preinst; I guessed that's why it was there.
<LaserJock> could be yeah
* moquist shakes his head
* moquist is getting schooled in redirection...man pages are good for schooling
<moquist> First of all, < is INPUT. Not output.
<LaserJock> mhm
<sbalneav> cbx33: Still on?
<cbx33> sbalneav, ya
<cbx33> i pm'd you
<cbx33> ahh
<sbalneav> Hmm
<cbx33> i'm not registered
<sbalneav> That would do it :)
* LaserJock gets a new laser
<bddebian> w00t
<LaserJock> and I just got a 24 page *pre* instillation guide
<bddebian> Step 1:  DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY INTO THE LIGHT... :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> this is all before I even get the thing in the room
<sbalneav> LaserJock: How many watts?
<sbalneav> CO2? Ruby? Argon?
<sbalneav> Cooling system?
<sbalneav> C'mon, man, inquiring minds want to know!
<cbx33> maming capabilities?
<joebaker> Ubuntu Gutsy tribe 5... on my laptop  synaptics touch pad scrolling wheel emulation isn't
<joebaker> working because SHMconfig might be disabled.  Any idea where I should file a
<joebaker> bug report on launchpad?  Or a more appropriate IRC channel.
<sbalneav> Hmm, did you install the synaptics driver?  I don't think it's enabled by default, is it?
<joebaker> Wait...   I realized I munged the xorg.conf file and rebuilt it in an unusual way...
<joebaker> Using  Xorg -Configure -Config
<joebaker> There used to be a way to re-run the dpkg-reconfigure tool.  But the
<joebaker> package changed from xserver-xorg
<moquist> LaserJock: moodle package is in REVU
<joebaker> To something else.  I'm using an intel chipset  85x  I think.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it'll put out 10W, Nd:Yag, air-cooled (which is little different)
<sbalneav> 10 watts?  That should be able to burn holes in 2x4's!
<sbalneav> coooool
<LaserJock> ok, hang on a sec
<moquist> sbalneav: no, haaaaaawt
<LaserJock> it's a pulsed laser
<moquist> LaserJock: I gotta take off and do the Real Job(TM). I don't know where to go from here except some more testing. I'm happy to work on the metapackage stuff if necessary, but somebody else could probably do it really fast. Also, it's not necessary for gutsy. *shrug*
<LaserJock> moquist: ok
<moquist> ogra may want it for gutsy, though. not sure.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it's a 10 ns wide pulse, so the pulse it'self is 100MWatts ;-)
<joebaker> It was the "Screens and Graphics" tool under Gutsy tribe 5 that munged the xorg.conf file.
<moquist> I'll take a look at it tonight or tomorrow, though. Wouldn't hurt.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: What, not 10 watts continuous?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> 10Hz pulsed
<sbalneav> How the heck do you hope to hold the world hostage and blow up the moon with THAT?!?!
<LaserJock> so 100MWatt pulses every 10th of a second
<sbalneav> I mean, really.
<LaserJock> sorry for disappointing you
<LaserJock> I could get a CO2 from the mech. engineering department
<LaserJock> it'll get the job done
<sbalneav> You also need a white mao suit, a monocle, and a cat.
<sbalneav> Please let us know when you have these things assembled.
<LaserJock> will do
<LaserJock> oh crap, I gotta run and get some lunch before all the "kids" get out of class and jam up the mexican place
<sbalneav> http://www.fortunecity.com/bennyhills/leary/378/drevil_figure2.jpg
<LaserJock> bbiaf
<LaserJock> wew, just made it
<LaserJock> it's incredible, it's actually drizzling here
<LaserJock> we've had not a single drop of rain for almost 90 days
<LaserJock> and today it's actually wet
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> not godd for your laser then LaserJock
<cbx33> *godd good
<kiteflyer07> hello.  I am looking for some help with LTSP.   Can I find that here?
<kiteflyer07> I first checked with #ltsp, but it's silent.
<kiteflyer07> I can PXE boot a client box, it detects the DHCP server and loads pxelinux.  I had to add nfsroot=/opt/ltsp/i386 to /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, in order for it to find it and begin loading the display manager.  I get a login that looks similar to GDM (presumably LDM) but after I enter a username and password, the displays goes black, flashes, then comes back with the same login prompt.  I get the impression
<moquist> kiteflyer07: run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on your server
<moquist> kiteflyer07: just a guess.
<moquist> kiteflyer07: also, FWIW, you got cut off at "I get the impression..."
<kiteflyer07> ah, hm, ok, well, I get the impression that this is a permissions problem somewhere, but I can't track it down.  I've created an account in the chrooted environment and the /etc/passwd and /home/<username> perms are OK.
<kiteflyer07> either that, or X is crashing when it's starts trying to load gnome.
<kiteflyer07> do I run ltsp-update-sshkeys from within the chrooted env or no?
<kiteflyer07> it appears that ltsp-update-sshkeys isn't even in the chroot, so that answers that bit... :)
<kiteflyer07> rebooting client...
<kiteflyer07> do you know how to disable X from starting?
#edubuntu 2007-09-01
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey there LaserJock!
<sbalneav> Going out for a walk.  Afk for an hour or so.
<sbalneav> New doco package building
<sbalneav> back
<LaserJock> sbalneav: package build?
<sbalneav> Yep!
<sbalneav> Day1, I kept my promise :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I would build the packages each day
<LaserJock> they'd just have the same content ;-)
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<TexasTwister> Hardware recognition problem here:  I bought a Dell Inspiron 530n desktop with Ubuntu preinstalled.  Worked fine.  Then I replaced Ubuntu with Eduntu (I'm configuring this box for a private school).  Was unable to install for lack of network connection until I inserted an Intel e100 PCI nic -- integrated e1000 not seen...
<TexasTwister> Install completed, Dell says new 2.6.20.16 kernel should be all that is needed.  Updated to that kernel but I still see only the e100.  Any ideas?
<sbalneav> What does lspci show?
<TexasTwister> 00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Unknown device 10c0 (rev 02)
<TexasTwister> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro 100]  (rev 08)
<sbalneav> Well, the first line's the e1000
<sbalneav> so the kernel doesn't know what it is.
<TexasTwister> ubuntu and edubuntu use the same kernel, no?
<sbalneav> Yup.
<TexasTwister> Strange...Dell implies that the current kernel should resolve the problem: http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/e1000_driver_does_not_recognize_network_controller
<sbalneav> So I'm willing to wager that if you re-installed ubuntu at this point, it probably wouldn't work either
<TexasTwister> Yes, I expect that is true.
<TexasTwister> Unless I installed from the "restore partition".
<sbalneav> dpkg -l | grep linux-image
<TexasTwister> ii  linux-image-2.6.20-15-generic              2.6.20-15.27                           Linux kernel image for version 2.6.20 on x86
<TexasTwister> ii  linux-image-2.6.20-16-generic              2.6.20-16.29                           Linux kernel image for version 2.6.20 on x86
<TexasTwister> ii  linux-image-generic                        2.6.20.16.28.1                         Generic Linux kernel image
<sbalneav> Well, looks like you have the one they want.  Just doesn't look like what they SAY it does, it does :)
<TexasTwister> Alrighty... to the forums, I guess...
<sbalneav> hold on, one sec...
<sbalneav> just looking something up
<TexasTwister> ok
<sbalneav> lspci -n | grep 02:00
<sbalneav> what do you get?
<sbalneav> TexasTwister: What do you get if you type lspci -n | grep 02:00
<TexasTwister> 02:00.0 0200: 8086:1229 (rev 08)
<sbalneav> k, I'm looking at the kernel source...
<TexasTwister> But that is the e100
<sbalneav> argh
<sbalneav> sorry
<sbalneav> 00:19
<TexasTwister> 00:19.0 0200: 8086:10c0 (rev 02)
<sbalneav> 10c0, ok...
<TexasTwister> What are we looking for?
<sbalneav> Well, I'm looking in the kernel source...
<sbalneav> If you're interested, I'm bombing through /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.20/drivers/net/e100.c
<sbalneav> In there, they basically list a bunch of pci-id's that the driver will respond to.
<sbalneav> 8086 is the intel "vendor code"
<sbalneav> 10c0's the device code.
<TexasTwister> Suppose that vendor code is a tribute to the old 8086 processor?
<sbalneav> ah, wait.
<sbalneav> looks like they've got a custom for the e1000
<sbalneav> sitting at the command prompt?
<TexasTwister> yup
<sbalneav> do a sudo modprobe e1000
<sbalneav> did it silently return?
<TexasTwister> yes... but I've done that before...
<sbalneav> doesn't pick up the device?
<TexasTwister> Not in the network settings panel anyway.
<sbalneav> lspci now, see if it looks like it's there...
<sbalneav> we're looking for that 00:19 one to change from an unknown device.
<TexasTwister> nope... still "unknown"
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> ok, looking in the driver...
<sbalneav> one sec.
<sbalneav> yeah...
<sbalneav>  *
<sbalneav>  * Last entry must be all 0s
<sbalneav>  *
<sbalneav>  * Macro expands to...
<sbalneav>  *   {PCI_DEVICE(PCI_VENDOR_ID_INTEL, device_id)}
<sbalneav>  */
<sbalneav> static struct pci_device_id e1000_pci_tbl[]  = {
<sbalneav>         INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x1000),
<sbalneav>         INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x1001),
<sbalneav> ...
<sbalneav>         INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10BC),
<sbalneav>         INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10C4),
<sbalneav>         INTEL_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10C5),
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> you got a 10C0
<sbalneav> ooooops.
<sbalneav> So, you got a couple of choices...
<TexasTwister> ok...
<sbalneav> 1) file a bug, include the lspci -n line, specifically pointing out that 8086:10c0 isn't in the driver.
<sbalneav> 2) Phone dell, complain :)
<TexasTwister> Alrighty then....
<sbalneav> 3) merrily dive off the deep end, try to compile your own kernel :)
<sbalneav> 4) Stick with the e100 for now :)
<sbalneav> Let me see if it's fixed in the 2.6.22 series in gutsy
<TexasTwister> Option 4) call my friends in Dell PG and ask for a fix (I'm a Dell employee...)
<sbalneav> Well.
<sbalneav> There you go!
<sbalneav> :)
<TexasTwister> Thanks for your help!
<sbalneav> Hardware vendors change device ids all the time.
<sbalneav> Someone sneezes on the blueprint, or chages one little transistor, and they bump a new number.
<LaserJock> hah
<sbalneav> and if you don't have the EXACT number in the driver, far as the driver knows, it's an unknown device.
<sbalneav> If you wanted to, I'll bet you could just add a line to e1000_main.c that said:
<sbalneav> INET_E1000_ETHERNET_DEVICE(0x10C0),
<sbalneav> and it would work like a champ.
<sbalneav> But there's the whole "now your running a modded kernel and no one will support you" thing.
<sbalneav> Talk to your buddies. see what they say.  If not, I'm here every day, come on back and see me, I'll give you a hand if you want.
<TexasTwister> alright.  Thanks!
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> Night all
<raynerd> Hello, few wuestions about edubuntu if anyone can assist, I`m a teacher and been trying to work out linux edubuntu throughout the holiday!
<raynerd> first, I have the edubuntu latest CD, ran it live and it had lots of nice educational functions. When I installed it on my machine, it didnt have these functions automatically, I have to download them/install them via the net. Why is this?
<raynerd> Secondly, we have 15 laptops in the department enough for 1 between 2 in a class of students. My intention is to use the laptops (with windows installed on them!) and run the live CD, so everyone is running Live edubuntu rather than windows. How can I edit the edubuntu CDs perminantly so that the "install" function is removed off the CD, i.e. students cant accidently install edubuntu
<raynerd_> anyone in here?
<raynerd_> ...?
<raynerd_> holaaa?
<raynerd_> peeeeeps?
<raynerd_> guys, question: I am new to linux and a teacher of Chemistry. I downloaded Ubuntu onto my home PC. My home pc does not have net connection and therefore I could not install educational apps. I therefore downloaded Edubuntu and ran it live....with access to all educational apps available. I then installed Edubuntu and when I ran it off the harddrive, the educational applications were missing again!! So as far as I could see, there
<raynerd_> was no difference between the ubuntu and edubuntu installs! I have managed to get net connection and installed all the apps but I am still confused by the benefit of having edubuntu installed over ubuntu. Anyone please explain...?
<Amaranth> raynerd_: if you couldn't see a difference you must not have actually installed edubuntu
<Amaranth> or you didn't uninstall ubuntu
<raynerd_> ok, i`ll be honest! I installed on works laptop edubuntu so it was a clean install!
<raynerd_> hence I have edubuntu on my pc still. I cant see a different
<raynerd_> sorry Ubuntu on my pc still
<Amaranth> raynerd_: different theme and different default applications
<Amaranth> raynerd_: edubuntu remove some of the stuff ubuntu normally installs by default and includes a bunch of education stuff
<raynerd_> so i definately installed a clean copy of edubuntu but the educational apps were not there...making it no different than ubuntu
<raynerd_> this is what I am saying
<raynerd_> ok, please let me explain again. Sorry my fault
<raynerd_> I installed Ubuntu on my pc laptop
<raynerd_> ahhhhh
<raynerd_> i installed Ubuntu on my HOME PC
<raynerd_> it did not contain any educational apps, I had no net connectivity so could not d/l them. I then chose to install Edubuntu on my work laptop.
<raynerd_> I ran the CD live first and all educational apps were there! great. When i installed, the educational apps were not there!
<raynerd_> the install looked almost identical to that of ubuntu. Luckly with the laptop i can connect to the net, so i just installed them. My question is, the edubuntu install was no different than the ubuntu install as far as i could see
<raynerd_> ?
<Amaranth> that sounds wrong
<Amaranth> you must have done something weird
<raynerd_> yes, I thought so! I`m new to linux, but to be fair there are very few choice to go wrong on the linux install! I just followed it through!
<Amaranth> i've, uh, never actually done an edubuntu install so i'm probably the wrong person to talk to
<raynerd_> lol
<Amaranth> but if you had edubuntu-desktop install you should have gotten some education apps
<Amaranth> installed*
<Amaranth> that's a package that pulls in all the packages that make up the edubuntu desktop
<raynerd_> yes, I can them on the same CD live run, but didnt get them on the install
<raynerd_> v strange!
<Amaranth> wait, edubuntu doesn't have a livecd installer
<raynerd_> say again?
<Amaranth> oh, they do as of feisty
<raynerd_> edubuntu is a live CD ...I ran it before I installed.
<Amaranth> nevermind
<raynerd_> yes
<Amaranth> you're not going to find anyone to help you here on the weekend
<raynerd_> Ahh right, why all asleep?
<Amaranth> i only know about edubuntu as of over a year ago and the rest don't get on here on the weekends
<raynerd_> i`m new to Irc, who is everyone, like are they teachers or educationalists?
<Amaranth> some of them are around, sometimes
<Amaranth> but i mean the people who work on edubuntu
<raynerd_> ahh right! So people from edubuntu actually come on here?
<raynerd_> when is best time to try?
<Amaranth> about 48 hours from now
<raynerd_> right, Monday
<raynerd_> you a teacher yourself?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> student :)
<raynerd_> ahh ok ....lol
<raynerd_> age?
<Amaranth> actually not a student anymore
<Amaranth> 20
<raynerd_> right cool, u at uni?
<raynerd_> UK? USA?
<Amaranth> no, i'm out of school now
<raynerd_> ahh right
<Amaranth> i did some edubuntu-related stuff for the Google Summer of Code when i was a student
<raynerd_> right I see. I`m a Chemistry/Science teacher - any good apps you would recommend?
<Amaranth> gchemutils
<Amaranth> i think that's a suite of apps :)
<raynerd_> wow cheers!
<stgraber> raynerd_: the educational softwares can be found on the server-addon cd-rom, there were some space issues on the other CDs (I didn't know that the live one doesn't install the edu softwares too)
<Amaranth> stgraber: it doesn't make sense if they fit on the live environment
<Amaranth> because that basically just gets copied over to the system without changes
<stgraber> Amaranth: indeed but I heard of some problem with the edu software install during feisty devel cycle (but I only installed servers so never really checked)
<raynerd_> Is there a benefit of running edubuntu over ubuntu other than the educational apps, which you can install on ubuntu anyway then?
<raynerd_> its just confusing me
<Amaranth> edubuntu's main use is as an LTSP server/cient
<Amaranth> client*
<raynerd_> right, which is...?
<Amaranth> thin clients
<raynerd_> sorry, please I dont know what any of this means in computer terms!
<Amaranth> you have one big server and a bunch of systems that are only network card, and display (well, more or less)
<raynerd_> right, so basically its just a network?>
<Amaranth> all the processing and such goes on on the server, the clients boot via the network
<raynerd_> and whats the advantage of doing it on edubutu and not just on ubuntu
<Amaranth> edubuntu automates it
<raynerd_> right, making it easier to run?
<Amaranth> if you stick and edubuntu server disk in a computer with two network cards it automatically sets it up as an ltsp server
<raynerd_> and manage
<Amaranth> they use the same repositories for their software so you can do all of this with ubuntu
<Amaranth> edubuntu just makes it easier to setup
<raynerd_> so, in a classroom sense, what does this allow you to actually do. It isnt making sense still, sorry
<raynerd_> why do they need to network...what for?
<Amaranth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Terminal_Server_Project
<Amaranth> the clients aren't full computers, they're dumb terminals
<raynerd_> haha...right !!! :p
<Amaranth> they just show stuff on the screen and have a keyboard and mouse hooked up to them
<Amaranth> the server does all the processing
<raynerd_> right so as a teacher, so what? kids can do what? teachers can do what? I dont see what networking is doing?
<raynerd_> ahh they are using the same computer??
<Amaranth> yes
<Amaranth> you can get a bunch of really old computers for the clients and just have one powerful server
<raynerd_> wow I see
<Amaranth> and it lets you watch what the students are doing
<raynerd_> so basically your running crappy machines, but using one big machine to do the work, making the rubbish computers useful!
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> instead of buying a bunch of new computers you just get one powerful server and use the old computers as clients
<raynerd_> are many schools doing this?
<Amaranth> some are
<Amaranth> i dunno about 'many'
<raynerd_> sounds interesting, but hardwork
<Amaranth> edubuntu makes it not so hard
<Amaranth> but the ltsp stuff is all way over my head
<Amaranth> so once again, ask on monday :)
<raynerd_> thanks
<raynerd_> will do
<raynerd_> tbh no problem now as i have installed all the aps, just dont get why they didnt get done on the install
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mohamed_> hello sbalneav
<mohamed_> my question related to ltsp server, i installed  freevo on the server , and when i try to run freevo on thinclient and server only one version working
<mohamed_> how to make freevo working on both server and clients at the same time
<mohamed_> this is not related to freevo only but to all programs
<sbalneav> You're looking for local apps.
<mohamed_> anyone can help me  ?
<sbalneav> apps running on the thin client itself.
<sbalneav> We don't support that yet, but you could try to get it working yourself, if you're willing to do some scripting/programming.
<mohamed_> if there is starting point to start from i can try this
<mohamed_> because this is why i install ltsp, i want to use it as mediacenter
<sbalneav> No, there's no starting point.
<mohamed_> that anyone can run the same media application at the same time
<sbalneav> You'd have to chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> apt-get install the application you want, and sshd server
<sbalneav> get keys set up in the chroot.
<sbalneav> write a script that would mount /home in the chroot.
<sbalneav> get ldap authentication going.
<sbalneav> then, on the server. you'd use ssh to start the app on the thin client.
<sbalneav> its a big job, and all the pieces aren't there yet.
<mohamed_> of course i'm sure if my knowledge can reach me to success in this :)
<sbalneav> I'm an ltsp developer, we'd love to have that feature, and we'll probably be working on it for Hardy, but it's not an easy job
<mohamed_> i'm sure  = i'm not sue
<mohamed_> sure
<mohamed_> yes, is very good feature
<mohamed_> i get idea maybe is not correct, ...
<mohamed_> if i chroot and install freevo on ltsp
<mohamed_> this can't work ?
<sbalneav> Well, that's the start.
<sbalneav> Think about it:
<sbalneav> The application needs to know who you are. There are no users on the thin client terminal, it uses the server for everything, so you need ldap
<sbalneav> There's no home dirs on the thin client, so you need those.
<sbalneav> the app has to get started some way, so you need ssh.
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> There's a lot of pieces to that puzzle.
<sbalneav> that's why we haven't solved it yet :)
<sbalneav> it's a hard problem to solve.
<mohamed_> yes, :)
<mohamed_> of course i can't make it if u still think in it
<mohamed_> this is due to my few knowledge
<mohamed_> sbalneav, can u look at this link and tell me if this can work ..
<mohamed_> http://pachikov.com/ablog/posts/2006/03/07/terminal-server-for-home-media-pcs/
<sbalneav> no
<sbalneav> it won't work
<LaserJock> morning all
<moquist> sbalneav: ping
<moquist> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> pongy pongy pongy
<moquist> pongo pongo purdy
<LaserJock> that's my impersonation of a pogo stick
<moquist> that's my impression of Disney making up names for a movie
<moquist> LaserJock: any comments on my moodle package?
<LaserJock> I haven't got to it this morning
<LaserJock> it's on my list though
* moquist nods
<moquist> K. I'm taking a look at the edubuntu doco ATM, just so sbalneav doesn't feel so lonely.
<moquist> At least, I'm trying. I've never worked with yelp-y stuff before, either...
<LaserJock> good man
<moquist> Eh, edubuntu/browser-startpage/index.html says "Welcome to Edubuntu 7.04, the Feisty Fawn!"
<moquist> :)
<moquist> Should I worry about piddly stuff like saying "Edubuntu distribution of Linux" instead of "Edubuntu Linux distribution"? (The latter makes it sound like "Edubuntu Linux" is the project name, and IIRC Ubuntu wants NOT to be "Ubuntu Linux".)
* moquist expects to have a largely editorial role here, along with perhaps contributing to an Edubuntu Tips & Tricks section, or something like that.
<LaserJock> nah, go ahead and put it together
<LaserJock> and I'll have a look
<LaserJock> I'm working on About Edubuntu today
<moquist> Oh, I wasn't writing new text. I was considering changing existing text.
<LaserJock> we haven't done much with the little docs
<LaserJock> yeah
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> I'm just saying, put it all together and send it to me
<moquist> Oh, ok.
<moquist> Is there a particular section to which you'd like to point me?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> just look at any of it
<LaserJock> it all needs to be looked over
<moquist> I grabbed the source from sbalneav's PPA. I should edit those files and then somehow send them to you?
<moquist> Should I just attach the changed files to an email, or create an updated source package, or what?
<LaserJock> hehe, whatever you'd like
<LaserJock> I'm easy ;-)
<moquist> This is all assuming I actually do something helpful, here. :)
<moquist> Agh! I-T-apostrophe-S for ownership!
<moquist> NOoooooo!
<moquist> :-D
<LaserJock> hehe
<moquist> "open source software" versus "Free Software"...?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'd rather not touch that one
<LaserJock> nor Linux vs GNU/Linux ;-)
<moquist> Well, "About Edubuntu" says "open source software". Hence my question.
<moquist> Yep.
* moquist is chaffed whenever he says "Free Software" and somebody corrects him: "You mean Open Source?"
<moquist> Apparently not capitalizing "free software" OR "open source software", though.
* moquist prefers to capitalize Free Software because it is a clue toward the beer/speech distinction
<moquist> Oh, look. The paragraph in question is immediately followed by the Ubuntu Philosophy. I'm all set.
<moquist> No..."Free" is capitalized later. 8-\
<moquist> Yeah, there's a cheerful jumble of "free" and "open source" on this page.
<moquist> Yeah, there's a cheerful jumble of "free", "Free", and "open source" on this page.
<moquist> I'm going to edit it as I see fit and send you what I think.
* moquist is plagued by his/her and the distressing compromise "their".
<LaserJock> yep
<moquist> I'm trying to eliminate the pronoun altogether where I can get away with it.
<moquist> I use the feminine pronouns exclusively in my philosophy papers.
<cbx33> moquist, what's this for?
<moquist> We're discussing the Edubuntu Handbook.
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> what part in particular?
<moquist> "Every computer user should have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees." I'm thinking about just ditching "their" and not using a pronoun there at all.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you might not want to change the freedoms stuff
<moquist> Though it's more compelling with an owership pronoun there...
<LaserJock> that is official Canonical wording
<moquist> LaserJock: Is that ... OK. NM, then.
* moquist puts it back
* moquist wants to change "community driven" to "community-driven", though.
<moquist> Same page, hopefully not official.
<moquist> LaserJock: Is this official? "
<moquist> Our work on Ubuntu is driven by a philosophy based on software freedom that we hope will spread, and bring the benefits of software technology to all parts of the globe."
<LaserJock> moquist: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
<moquist> I want to change it to: "Our work on Ubuntu and Edubuntu is driven by a philosophy of software freedom that we hope will spread and bring the benefits of software technology to all people, everywhere."
<moquist> LaserJock: 'globe' doesn't appear on the page you sent, so changing it is probably OK.
* moquist nods
* moquist likes nodding
<moquist> LaserJock: Under "Manageable", what link(s) can we provide WRT re-branding or the addition or removal of programs? It's great to assert how great Edubuntu is, but it's empty marketing unless we actually provide some indication here of how they can do those things.
<LaserJock> hmm
<moquist> Maybe this isn't the place for it, I realize. The "Why Edubuntu?" section is intended to be marketing-ish. But it would seem quite a bit better to provide such links here, IMO.
<moquist> I wouldn't mind dropping that sentence altogether; I don't think it flows well.
<moquist> LaserJock: here's what I currently have, with no links needed: http://n01se.net/paste/cJm?pretty=yes
* moquist changes "scarce to non-existant" to something else...
<moquist> LaserJock: http://n01se.net/paste/jSH?pretty=yes
<moquist> OK, last time on that para: http://n01se.net/paste/AK7?pretty=yes
<LaserJock> very nice
<moquist> I was wrong. I couldn't help going back just now and changing "increasingly large" to "increasing". :)
<moquist> LaserJock: I just emailed you my current version of introduction.xml. I've gotta run ATM.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> thanks
* moquist nods
<moquist> :)
<multik> good evening group
<LaserJock> hi
<john_s> Hi all, can anyone tell me what the ldm file is/does
<multik> LaserJock, hi, what's up?
<john_s> hm, is this too easy or to hard a question? Is it just another display manager like xdm,gdm,kdm etc?
<john_s> never mind. I found it.
#edubuntu 2007-09-02
<LaserJock> moquist: thanks
<moquist> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> moquist: does the 2nd one include the change from the first
<moquist> yes
<moquist> I just kept going with the same file. diff my v.2 against whatever you have.
<LaserJock> k,good
<moquist> Any word on my moodle package yet? :)
<moquist> Sorry. I shouldn't nag...I know you're busy.
<LaserJock> yeah, problem is inlaws are here for the weekend
<LaserJock> moquist: Committed revision 4312.
<LaserJock> moquist: what were you doing to test moodle?
<LaserJock> install with mysql and install with postgresql?
<LaserJock> moquist: I'll bbl going out for dinner
<moquist> LaserJock: yes -- I installed moodle with mysql & postgresql. You then have to open a browser to http://localhost/moodle/ to complete the installation. (I forwarded localhost:80 to the remote system for that part.)
<Nubae> hi there... I'm trying to set up a proxy server with some sort of filtering for students... what is recommended, Ideally I'd like something that works with Squid which I have some experience with
<Kamping_Kaiser> dansguardian
<Nubae> yeah I looked t that, but it set up nother firewall utility which screwed up my shorewall setup
<Kamping_Kaiser> another utility?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont know about shorewall, btw
<Nubae> oh... well, I followed  guide I found, actually several, with dansguardian playing a central role
<Nubae> but using some other firewall tool, cant remember now... firehol maybe?
<Kamping_Kaiser> its working a treat for me... cant really say more then that :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> on a dapper system, fwiw.
<Nubae> ok, and what firewall are u using, or just iptables directly?
<Kamping_Kaiser> using iptables to redirect 80 -> dans -> dans into squid
<Nubae> oh... ok, that sounds pretty feasable... guess only need http child filtered
<Kamping_Kaiser> well, i do have a 'drop anything not on 80' rule...
<Nubae> ah... I'd need to remove that as this server is doing  lot of stuff, including ltsp
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have a dedecated gateway
<Nubae> so u just apt-get installed dansguardian and modified the config file?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes. the config doesnt need much tweaking at all
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can optionally whitelist sites like .gov.au .edu.au
<Kamping_Kaiser> um... your relevent TLD of course...
<Nubae> hmmm... maybe I'm better of putting this on  seperate computer?
<Nubae> so it doesnt interfere with the server
<Kamping_Kaiser> *shrug* better i dont know... i like dedicated gateways myself
<Nubae> ok, well I'll give it a go... if you dont mind, can I ask you some questions as I install it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no worries
<Nubae> so email doesnt go through it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have done squid+dans on Debian etch, but not confident. with dapper i can check against my settings (if that helps you)
<Nubae> yeah, I'm on feisty
<Kamping_Kaiser> through what, the gateway ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> "just dont block smtp"
<Nubae> k
<Nubae> theres 2 conf files, dansguardian.conf and dansguardianf1.conf
<Kamping_Kaiser> you want dansguardian.conf
<Nubae> what reporting level do u use?
<Kamping_Kaiser> 3
<Nubae> so u created a custom html file
<Kamping_Kaiser> i edited the default
<Kamping_Kaiser> just rebranded basicly
<Nubae> ah, makes sense, what kind of info does it give if it tells u why access was denied?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm?
<Kamping_Kaiser> #  2 = report fully <- that optoin?
<Nubae> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> it tells you the exact line it banned you on
<Kamping_Kaiser> eg "you have been denided because you tried to look up" <really bad things here>
<Nubae> ah, maybe too much :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> 10,1 and 3 are good
<Kamping_Kaiser> 2 is good for debugging
<Kamping_Kaiser> but i use the logs for that, so i have 3 set, and look in logs
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, next option is language (for me)
<Nubae> yeah, I just put English in
<Nubae> uk
<Kamping_Kaiser> just cd into the languagedir , cp -r ukenglish mycustom
<Kamping_Kaiser> customise mycustom/index.html (or whatever the files called)
<Kamping_Kaiser> then set language='mycustom'
<Nubae> oh, cool
<Kamping_Kaiser> its called template.html
<Nubae> I leave the messages dir where it is?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yea
<Nubae> proxy settings leave as default? Squid runs on the same server
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep
<Nubae> whats filter groups... dont quite understand that
<Kamping_Kaiser> dont worry about it
<Kamping_Kaiser> well, i havent
<Nubae> phrasefiltermode?
<Nubae> leave default?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i left default
<Kamping_Kaiser> i didnt change a lot, which is one thing i liked about it - blocks everything without much effort
<Nubae> yeah defaults look pretty good, but like knowing what its doing anyway :-)
<Nubae> usexforwardedfor
<Kamping_Kaiser> off
<Nubae> k thought cause it says something about squid...
<Kamping_Kaiser> you have dans between squid+clients, not squid between dans+clients
<Nubae> ah... true... have u got it running as nobody?
<Kamping_Kaiser> default
<Nubae> ok virusscan?
<Kamping_Kaiser> do you want it to?
<Nubae> well, I've clamav already installed, running with postfix
<Nubae> or is this not scanning email, but downloads?
<Kamping_Kaiser> downloads - dansguardian is an http proxy only
<Nubae> ah yes just read :-) need to be less impatient
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe.
<Nubae> ok... that seems to be it then
<Nubae> so just turn it on and its running?
<Kamping_Kaiser> restart it, yeah
<Nubae> ah, it does look for messages from the custom dir
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Nubae> /var/log/dansguardian/access.log <--- what permissions u got on this file?
<Kamping_Kaiser> -rw-r--r-- 1 dansguardian dansguardian  34K 2007-09-02 13:46 access.log
<Nubae> wont run for me with the default... also tells me its running as dansguardian, seems to be ignoring the setting from the config file
<Kamping_Kaiser> mines running as dansguardian too.
<Kamping_Kaiser> what do you mean 'with the default' though?
<Nubae> default permissions for the log file
<Nubae> just relsed it doesnt exist
<Nubae> never mind
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok
<Nubae> did u add anything special to squid?
<Kamping_Kaiser> um.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i've made lots of changes, i dont remember how many are dansguardian related though
<Nubae> ok, nevermind, I'll figure that out myself... thanks for all your help
<Nubae> really appreciate it
<Kamping_Kaiser> np
<Kamping_Kaiser> i can flood you config if you want
<Kamping_Kaiser> httpd_accel_host virtual
<Kamping_Kaiser> httpd_accel_with_proxy on
<Kamping_Kaiser> httpd_accel_uses_host_header on
<Kamping_Kaiser> ^^ check those settings
<Kamping_Kaiser> acl our_networks src 192.168.1.0/24
<Kamping_Kaiser> will need attention
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure if/what else, depends on your exact layout
<Nubae> oh, with dansguardian, is there already a set of filters in place, or does that need to be extensively editted?
<Kamping_Kaiser> its already got filters
<Kamping_Kaiser> look in dansguardianf1.conf at the naughtynesslimit setting
<Kamping_Kaiser> i left it on default
<Kamping_Kaiser> but it gives you some idea whats going on
<Nubae> ah yeah, I've got from 8-18 here
<Nubae> guess I'll need the lowest setting
<Kamping_Kaiser> # 50 is for young children,  100 for old children,  160 for young adults.
<Kamping_Kaiser> naughtynesslimit = 50
<Kamping_Kaiser> is what i have
<Nubae> heh, where do old children end and young adults start, :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> no idea :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> but i do know i'm using young children setting for a community centre of ages from ~15-80
<Kamping_Kaiser> and with good use of whitelisting  its the perfect setting
<Nubae> ok... so it blocks mostly porn content right?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'd flood you some blocking, but then people wouldnt be able to view the logs *grin*
<Kamping_Kaiser> actually... want me to pm it? so you can ee
<Nubae> great, thats the biggest problem...
<Nubae> yeah sure y not
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, it also blocks extentions
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, check your pms
<Nubae> are you forwarding squid to dans, or the other way round?
<Kamping_Kaiser> clients -> dans -> squid -> internet
* Kamping_Kaiser browses dansguardian logs of denied access and marvels how freeking effective it is
<Nubae> :-) do people complain?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not really.
<Kamping_Kaiser> once i unblocked a few key TLDs and websites that 90% of our traffic goes to
<Kamping_Kaiser> for example it blocks .doc and .deb by default - nota  good state of affairs
<Kamping_Kaiser> whitelist our ISP ubuntu mirror and all of a suden we can dist-upgrade again.
<Nubae> hep
<Kamping_Kaiser> also with .edu.au and .gov.au whitelisted people could download thier work again
<Kamping_Kaiser> you probalby get the idea anyhow :)
<Nubae> hehe yeah
<Nubae> so on the client side, nothing needs to be setup in the browser?
<Nubae> auto proxy?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not if you redirect port 80 on the gateway
<Nubae> ok, yeah doh
<Kamping_Kaiser> you'll have a line similar to `iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-port 8080` in your iptables config
<Nubae> yeah redirect 80 to 8080
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, hi mate
<Amaranth> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<raynerd> hello, can anyone help with editing a live CD ?
<raynerd> I have an edubuntu CD, with the programs I want to use. I want to use it in class but I dont want the install option. I simply want a CD that boots without the install desktop icon or the menu install icon.
<raynerd> anyone know how this can be done.
<raynerd> ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure how the live cd stuff happens in ubuntu land
<raynerd> im using edubuntu.
<Kamping_Kaiser> same process
<raynerd> Been trying to do it for last few days!
<raynerd> but i`m a linux noob myself so .. its all a bit above me
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<bddebian> Heya
<raynerd> Hey, does anyone know how I could completely remove the install options, those being the desktop icon and menu install icon, off the Live Cd. I want to run it with students, but dont want them to "accidently" install it!
<sbalneav> raynerd: You've have to custom cut youre own version of the cd.
<raynerd> how is that done?
<raynerd> i mean I was told to run live CD delete all install icons off the desktop and menu bar and then copy a image of the new CD and save as an iso.
<raynerd> I can do the first bit but then don`t know where to go from there...how do i save the new CD image and how do i save as an iso>?
<sbalneav> It's a rather long mastering process.
<sbalneav> https://launchpad.net/reconstructor
<raynerd> sbalneav: I tried to use that earlier today and yesterday, But when i boot i get a black screen and no options. It definately takes control and boots up, but like I say, I get a short script then a black screen
<sbalneav> I'd check on their mailing list or help forums, then.
<raynerd> ok :(
<john_s> hello all, can anyone tell me how to save the output of dmesg to a text file if I do it within a chroot environment on the thin client? I am trying to capture debug info and I can't figure out how to move it to a place where I can email it to someone
<stgraber> john_s: if you have an USB plug, you can use an usbkey, otherwise maybe using the floppy drive
<john_s> stgraber: thanks, I am trying to debug my broken usbfs automount stuff so I can't use usb
<john_s> These thin clients don't have floppies either
<john_s> :-)
<stgraber> hmm, so you have a problem :)
<john_s> Yup
<john_s> are you an edubuntu/ltsp guru?
<john_s> please say yes!
<stgraber> maybe using a nfs server, but I'm not sure that the nfs kernel module is in the thin client chroot
<stgraber> sort of, I'm testing all new Edubuntu release and have already installed some networks
<john_s> ok well briefly, I have been unable to get local usb keys to show up on users desktops
<john_s> I have been working through the DebugLocalDev thing for about two weeks off and on
<john_s> but not yet got it
<john_s> if I go to a termianl on the thin client by doing ctrl+alt+f2 I can put the thumbdrive in and dmesg shows it getting added and it shows up in /etc/fstab
<stgraber> ok, so in the terminal you could manually mount it ?
<stgraber> are your users in the fuse group ?
<john_s> but when I try the final step on the debug ssh -S /tmp/.ltspfs_socket server "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"   I get a complaint from the ssh server saying authenticity of host 'server can't be established
<john_s> yup
<john_s> I guess that's where I fail is manually mounting it
<john_s> since that's where I encounter the complaint about ssh keys
<john_s> I have changed the ipaddress of the external nic since I set this server up but would that mess up the ssh key of the nic on the ltsp lan?
<stgraber> ok, and do you have a different result if you run this command with a logged on user ?
<stgraber> shouldn't be a problem if the LAN ip didn't change
<john_s> when you say logged on user, you mean if I go through to the gdm desktop and then open a terminal and follow all of those steps?
<john_s> when I log on and open up a terminal and run the tests I don't see anything about usb devices in dmesg  and fstab doesn't show any usb devices
<stgraber> I mean, on your thin client open a user session, then switch to tty2 (ctrl+alt+f2) and try the ltspfs cmd
<stgraber> (sorry I'm doing wireless driver testing/debuging at the same time)
<john_s> ok, well when I do ctrl+alt+f2 as a normal user I just get a black screen with a rapidly blinking curser in th upper left hand corner.
<john_s> I appreciate your help!
<john_s> so I can't seem to do anything unless I log in on tty1
<john_s> and then only as root
<stgraber> what's the exact ssh error you get ?
<john_s> The authenticity of host 'server (192.168.0.254)' can't be established. RSA key fingerpirnt is 47:1c:55:fa:45:05:80:b0:a6:48:c1:aa:68:5a:d5:2d: are you sure you want to continue connecting?
<stgraber> ok, can you have a look at files in /etc/ssh/
<john_s> yes
<stgraber> is 192.168.0.254 specified in one of them ?
<john_s> yes, shall i clear it?
<stgraber> no, but then it shouldn't ask this question ...
<stgraber> that's weird
<stgraber> and if you try replacing server by 192.168.0.254 in your cmd
<john_s> lemme try
<stgraber> does it helps ?
<john_s> stand by
<john_s> ok well the response was different anyway
<john_s> I did it by ip and it asked for root's password at 192.168.0.254 which i provided then it complained that there was no file or directory called /usr/sbin/ltspmounter  (which is true but that's the nomenclature used on the debug)
<john_s> I am doing this comand    ssh -S /tmp/.ltspfs_socket server "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
<stgraber> do you have ltspfs installed on the server ?
<john_s> ummm
<john_s> this is a stock edubuntu install
<john_s> lemme see
<stgraber> (according to apt-file that's the package you need to have ltspfsmounter)
<john_s> I have /usr/bin/ltspfsd is that a good indication?
<john_s> should I just do apt-get from within the chroot?
<stgraber> dpkg -l | grep ltspfs
<stgraber> it's a package to install on the server itself, not the chroot
<stgraber> so : sudo apt-get install ltspfs on the server should do it
<john_s> ltspfs is already the newest version.
<john_s> as an aside all of my ubuntu based systems have been complaiing about multiverse sources lately
<john_s> is it weird at all that I can't do ctrl+alt+f2 to get to tty2?
<stgraber> no, I usually have a debug console on tty2 here but that can be personal tweak or gutsy
<john_s> ok, so not integral to debugging this problem, I guess
<raynerd> I know I asked this before but I`ll say again. Anyone know how to edit a live
<raynerd> Cd
<john_s> ok
<john_s> I am leaving
<john_s> stgraber thanks for the help!
<john_s> I'll keep plugging away
#edubuntu 2008-08-25
<pem725> anyone available for a quick question?
<pem725> NickServ
<pem725> anyone available for a quick question?
<willvdl> hey guys
<juliux> hey willvdl
<willvdl> has anyone built edubuntu from a minimal ubuntu install?
<willvdl> I've got a lovely little atom minibox thingy here with a 2G flash etc. and am trying to build up a minimal system before going through the hog of choosing select packages
<willvdl> so I use the alternate CD and do a command line install for a minimal system
<willvdl> but the debootstrap complains like a mother-in-law
<willvdl> a standard install works fine though. both are from a USB CDROM
<willvdl> weird. not a repeatable problem
<willvdl> how odd
<LaserJock> ogra: heah, I applied for ~edubuntu-bugs, when you get a chance can you let me in? :-)
<willvdl> LaserJock, ola
<LaserJock> hi willvdl
<willvdl> I'm playing with a very nice teeny atom
<willvdl> it's hawt
<LaserJock> sweeeet
<willvdl> dual core as well
<willvdl> anyhoo
<LaserJock> heh
<willvdl> they are tiny
<willvdl> the controller chip is bigger than the cpu
<willvdl> the cpu doesn't even have a fan
<LaserJock> interesting
<willvdl> if this thing works it will be the ultimate classroom PC... waterproof, heatproof, shatterproof etc.
<willvdl> it's encased in anodised alluminium with heat tubes
<LaserJock> lol
<willvdl> it is honestly submersible
 * LaserJock wants one
<LaserJock> how chemical resistant would it be?
<willvdl> depends. what eats alluminium?
<willvdl> I know children that are undernourished will eat many things but they probably lack the gum strength to chew through this
<LaserJock> hmm, some acids might do some damage, but mostly it'll eat the anodization off
<willvdl> I remember an experiment in school
<willvdl> with an alluminium pencil sharpener
<willvdl> and a pot of steam
<willvdl> and a great erupting fireball
<LaserJock> way cool
<willvdl> ooh ooh. anyone played with DRBL?
<willvdl> LaserJock, are you familiar with Scientific Linux at all?
<LaserJock> I know of it, I've never used it though
<LaserJock> it's never been all that appealing to me
<willvdl> hmm, seems to be rhel
<willvdl> but I haven't seen an app list
<willvdl> just curious cause they are mentioned from the clonezilla docs
<LaserJock> it's basically taking rhel and recompiling it (ala CentOS)
<LaserJock> but packing all the science related packages on a DVD
<willvdl> deja vu
<willvdl> right. I'm hungry and I have a chicken.
<willvdl> later
<Lns> Wow
 * Lns just finished reading the (aging) thread from the list entitled "Edubuntu 7.10 - A Released Debacle and a Practice in Failure"
<Lns> Although I disagree with the title
<Lns> I think this topic is something that is pure gold to what we're all trying to accomplish
<Lns> if anyone wants to start a conversation based on that thread go ahead - otherwise i'll keep working :)
<Lns> http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg02967.html
<LaserJock> Lns: go on? :-)
<Lns> LaserJock: well, I see the people who have replied and posted in that thread
<Lns> And I see that we all have the same motivation to do the right thing and get Edubuntu/UbuntuLTSP absolutely rock-solid in typical setups.
<Lns> What I see is the overall issue of how bugs are handled - and not to say LP fails, but IMHO there needs to be much more of a hierarchy, a better priority system for issuing these bugs
<Lns> Such as the gnome-watchdog, hanging procs issue that's been happening for over a year now
<Lns> IMHO this should have been implemented, tested and put into 8.04LTS.
<Lns> But, this is even too specific for the conversation I want to have with the posters/other interested parties
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> the biggest problem has consistently been manpower
<Lns> exactly
<Lns> and i think i might have a solution for that.
<LaserJock> and getting upset with the people who *do* contribute is not a way to excite people about more contributions
<Lns> though it might have been thought of before
<Lns> LaserJock: i agree 100%
<LaserJock> so while it's good to talk about what we can do better, some of the tone of that thread was disappointing, IMO
<Lns> I feel like I want to start a team of LTSP-specific techs, coders and administrators so we can closely collaborate on issues, bugs and questions we have so that fixes get pushed faster. But, again, the issue is manpower.
<Lns> So
<Lns> obviously, there are a lot of for-profit companies and budget-oriented entities (school districts, govt offices) that *can* contribute money to fixing problems.
<Lns> I, for one, am a two-man company that is contracted by places like this to implement LTSP into places like schools
<Lns> If there was a "pool" of sorts, almost like a NPO or something similar, smaller companies like me could "contribute" money so that programmers can work to fix these bugs full-time.
<Lns> I have no doubt at all that there are plenty of companies/entities that would be willing to contribute as I am.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that'd really do much
<LaserJock> although I think it could be nice in terms of promotion, i.e. having money available for promoting Edubuntu/LTSP
<Lns> Go on..if the issue is manpower, how is this not a viable solution?
<LaserJock> because money quite often isn't the issue
<LaserJock> it's a community, not a business
<Lns> so what's the issue?
<Lns> in regards to manpower
<LaserJock> well, generally I think you need things like direction, a RoadMap, and an environment that is healthy for community collaboration, contribution, and expansion
<LaserJock> you need to have leadership, consistency, and vision
<LaserJock> with a relatively small, niche group like Edubuntu it can be difficult to get people
<Lns> I think that Edubuntu/UbuntuLTSP has a pretty big user-base
<Lns> Maybe the main problem is the current structure itself?
<Lns> *How* expansion happens, *how* direction is established, etc?
<LaserJock> well, it's a fairly large user-base, but IMO it's a bit different user-base than what Ubuntu as a whole has
<LaserJock> I think in general Edu work is not a sexy for developer types
<Lns> correct
<Lns> but...developers will happily code for money when community contribution isn't desired
<Lns> and said code can be given to the community in the end, anyway
<LaserJock> the point of Ubuntu and Edubuntu is to have a community project
<Lns> I see that as a repetitive issue with F/OSS in general
<LaserJock> paid solutions, while appealing in the short term, do not help community issues
<Lns> why does code contributions, whether paid or not, *not* help the community issues?
<Lns> s/does/do
<LaserJock> because it tends to stifle community contribution
<Lns> it does?
<LaserJock> i.e. "oh, you have to be a paid person to work on Edubuntu?"
<LaserJock> or "oh, well I'm paid to implement this so you should find something else to do"
<Lns> but there are plenty of people who *are* paid to contribute already
<LaserJock> or "well, I don't have time to build community, I have to get this code working"
<LaserJock> yes, but it only seems to work out well if you significant community components already there
<Lns> I don't see how getting issues resolved and bugs fixed has anything to do with building a community - they seem to be separate functions of the overall goal
<Lns> whether someone is paid or not shouldn't have anything to do with it
<LaserJock> so fixing "we lack people" problems by paying people to do work can end up harming more than helping
<LaserJock> ah, but they aren't separate functions
<LaserJock> so I would say, yeah, it's cool to have people paid to work on Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but it won't solve manpower issues in the long run
<Lns> wouldn't you think that the more people contribute, regardless of their personal motivation, it will help the community grow?
<LaserJock> nope, not exactly
<LaserJock> paid people contribute what they're paid to contribute
<LaserJock> and it quite hard to convince the people paying that community building is worth the money
<Lns> I see it as worth it
<LaserJock> so you might make good advances in the bug-fixing arena and have a dead community in the end
<Lns> hmm
<LaserJock> but for me the point is that we don't *need* paid people
<LaserJock> it's great to have them around, no doubt
<LaserJock> but I have confidence in community
<Lns> but as the way it is now, there are so many unfixed bugs that the community only fixes the ones they want to fix / have time to fix
<LaserJock> if the community contains paid elements then great
<LaserJock> and that's fine
<LaserJock> pain points lead to people who want to scratch itches
<LaserJock> if people seriously don't have enough interest in fixing bugs then what's the point?
<LaserJock> and this is where I have some issues with the list thread
<LaserJock> I don't mind people bringing up problems
<LaserJock> but I want people to contribute to the solutions
<Lns> how do you propose they do so if they aren't a programmer?
<LaserJock> triaging is good, testing is great
<LaserJock> I'm not a programmer per se
<LaserJock> many many Ubuntu developers aren't either
<LaserJock> it's not our responsibility to fix bugs in most cases
<LaserJock> it's about forwarding, tracking, integrating work that others do
<LaserJock> documentation is also a key aspect
<LaserJock> often times people can avoid bugs if told how to do so
<Lns> But what happens after the bug is forwarded to say, the gnome dev team, and they sit on it because Edubuntu/LTSP specific bugs aren't a priority to them?
<LaserJock> you poke
<LaserJock> you make it a priority for them :-)
<Lns> does that really work all the time though?
<LaserJock> not all the time, no
<LaserJock> but a lot more than you might think
<LaserJock> developers most often dislike bugs in their code and are quite willing to help get things fixed
<LaserJock> sometimes you run into a "dead" upstream where there's no development work being done
<LaserJock> but Debian is also quite helpful
<Lns> Are any coders firmly against accepting patches?
<LaserJock> very rarely you come across people that don't want to work with software they've already released
<LaserJock> so they'd maybe say "I'll take patches against the development version only"
<LaserJock> but patches are like candy for most developers :-)
<Lns> See, that's my point :)
<Lns> I would absolutely love to pay someone, if i could alone, to submit patches for bugs that my clients experience
<Lns> even if only submitting patches alone
<LaserJock> right, but what I'm saying is you probably don't even need to pay somebody to do it
<Lns> i would gladly pay someone to do that, so my clients would continue to pay ME, and have faith in open-source and LTSP/Edubuntu specifically.
<LaserJock> if you get the community built around it
<Lns> hmm
<LaserJock> I mean, I wouldn't turn down donations ;-)
<LaserJock> but I think in terms of Edubuntu as a whole
<Lns> so is it the hierarchy of communication broken? what is it about the community that makes it so hard for "normal people" to successfully contribute and get things accomplished?
<LaserJock> it's much healthier to have a good community
<Lns> i agree with you on that..the community is the lifeblood of any F/OSS project
<LaserJock> well, right now the problem is really at the top
<LaserJock> or rather the lack thereof
<LaserJock> technically speaking there are currently 0 Edubuntu developers
<LaserJock> ogra's done a tremendous job, but his current work load is elsewhere, so any Edubuntu work is in his no-so-available free time
<LaserJock> I'm just getting back into Edubuntu but am currently work on my PhD so don't have extensive time at the moment
<Lns> I agree...I can't believe how much of a help ogra's been over the past couple of years for me, not to mention the countless others that have looked to him for help
<LaserJock> we're the only 2 Ubuntu developers who've worked on Edubuntu really
<Lns> Well here's the thing then...
<LaserJock> so I think we need a time of reanalysis, regrouping so that we can get a plan together
<Lns> we've got next to no devs for Edubuntu
<Lns> (i agree)
<Lns> But we have TONS of people using Edubuntu/UbuntuLTSP
<Lns> So we have a bunch of admins with no dev team. there needs to be more of a balance obviously
<Lns> to get things accomplished faster, bugs squished and happy admins/users
<Lns> how can the admins help? That's what I am, essentially
<Lns> and i know you mean triaging/reporting problems/etc
<LaserJock> ok, well there's quite a number of things
<LaserJock> it's just a matter of getting things going
<Lns> but I *do* that...and then I sit and watch the number of unresolved bugs in my LP sub list grow
<LaserJock> building some momentum
<LaserJock> we could start having weekly bug squashing sessions
<LaserJock> really promote them on the lists and Planet Ubuntu for instance
<Lns> what's planet ubuntu?
<LaserJock> http://planet.ubuntu.com
<Lns> See...that's another thing..the decentralization of everything is so confusing
<Lns> fridge/planet/wiki/lists/irc/etc
<LaserJock> lol, planet is about centralization
<Lns> oh
<Lns> =p
<LaserJock> gosh, you have no idea
<LaserJock> wait until you get into packaging
<LaserJock> stuff is *everywhere*
<Lns> see, that's the problem though!
<Lns> we need to fixate on the core issue there
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but it's a big problem to tackle
<Lns> so what
<Lns> we're powerful =)
<LaserJock> and we're working on it ;-)
<LaserJock> for instance, right now there are 3 "places" that QA services are hosted in Ubuntu
<Lns> well i'd love to know what i can do to best contribute to the centralization of all of these things
<LaserJock> the QA team is working on having a central portal for all of that
<Lns> that is awesome
<Lns> that's what we need
<LaserJock> ok, so some things I can think of:
<LaserJock> 1) Edubuntu bug days where we can all get together and squash
<LaserJock> 2) Edubuntu Q&A sessions where people can come and ask how they can help and learn about how Edubuntu is developed
<LaserJock> 3) A "How can I help?" doc on www.edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> 4) get edubuntu-devel used again to discuss bugs, etc.
<LaserJock> 5) have a clear roadmap and target
<LaserJock> those are the things that come off the top of my head anyway
<Lns> I think #5 is really what i'd like to focus on, anyway
<Lns> if people know the direction of the project
<Lns> than they are more likely to get involved
<Lns> humans are task-oriented
<sbalneav> Who decides what the roadmap is? :)
<LaserJock> good question
<Lns> very
<LaserJock> those who show up? ;-)
<sbalneav> Afternoon LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hi Scottie
<sbalneav> heh
<Lns> the community, exactly =)
<Lns> the ones that are most interested in the project, that prove so
<Lns> I just get so frustrated with which is the "best" way to communicate my concerns about LTSP in Ubuntu
<Lns> because there are so many ways
<LaserJock> a large scale "this is what we want to do, this is what our targets are"  would probably be a starting place
<sbalneav> Lns: Well, you've got an LTSP developer right here, what are your concerns? :)
<Lns> hehe..well i see IRC is one of the easiest ways to get in contact w/the devs ;)
<sbalneav> Yup
<Lns> LaserJock: i agree exactly with your last statement
<Lns> my concerns are that i have issues and bugs that aren't being resolved quickly enough for my clients
<LaserJock> take a gander at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Intrepid/StrategyDocument
<Lns> and it is of no blame to the community
<Lns> or the devs involved
<sbalneav> ok, which bugs?
<Lns> but it is a concern to me
<Lns> hmmmmm...well gnome-watchdog/lingering processes for one
<Lns> but i don't want to get specific here
<sbalneav> Why not?
<Lns> one minute..sorry
<sbalneav> Define "lingering processes".  Are they processes that hang around that cause problems?  Or processes that hang around, and don't bother anything?
<LaserJock> well, for me there is still a bit confusion when it comes to LTSP and Edubuntu
<LaserJock> when people say "bugs in Edubuntu" how often are they really saying "bugs in LTSP"
<sbalneav> Well, LTSP's moved officially back "upstream" now, so it's just a project that edubuntu relies on.
<sbalneav> Well, that
<Lns> sbalneav: why not? because there are too many bugs for me to list to try and squish with you now :) i want to focus on the goal of better collaboration between non-devs and devs so things can flow better for everyone
<Lns> rihgt
<Lns> and Ubuntu LTSP stuff is what i mainly want to focus on, personally
<sbalneav> Lns: Let me inject a little reality into your high idealism.
<LaserJock> and for me I honestly don't care about LTSP
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> well, other than LTSP has the coolest devs in the entire world
<sbalneav> All the LTSP developers are full time employed doing other things besides LTSP
<sbalneav> we work on it when we can, however we can.
<sbalneav> There is no "full time dedicated ltsp developer".
<sbalneav> So...
<LaserJock> well, that's another issue I was going to bring up
<LaserJock> it's hard to employee people who are already employed full-time elsewhere
<Lns> sbalneav: i agree with you
<sbalneav> We've got a bugs area right now, and there's an LTSP developer here right now, so if you've got some hot button issues, why not lay it on me NOW, and I'll see if there's anything I can help you with.
<Lns> sbalneav: see though, hot-button issues aren't my big issue :)
<Lns> i want to make it so hot-button issues are dealt with in the best way possible for *everyone*
<Lns> and i know that isn't easy to hear
<LaserJock> right, which means fixing the ones we can when we can when they come up :-)
<Lns> but i want to help turn the big gear
<LaserJock> I think ltsp could use a good triage session
<Lns> i would love to be involved in that
<LaserJock> it's got 56 open bugs
<LaserJock> which is 1/3 of the open edubuntu bugs
<sbalneav> Ok, you turn the big gear.  And when the big gear's turning, pop into either here or #ltsp, and let us know what the issues are.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: is there a convenient day for you in the week?
<LaserJock> or are they all mostly the same
<sbalneav> Probably in a week or two I could stay home and do a bug squashing day.  P
<LaserJock> ok, sounds good
<sbalneav> A lot of the bugs assigned to LTSP aren't LTSP bugs per se, but problems with X detection, etc.  that are out of our hands.  Others have been fixed with the latest ltsp developer conf.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: once you know when that is can you send an email to edubuntu-{devel,users} saying you're gonna have an LTSP bug squashing day?
<sbalneav> Unfortunately, because I didn't get a chance to do any work for 6 months or so, Launchpad kicked me out of edubuntu-bugs.
<LaserJock> right, that's why I think a good day of triage is needed
<sbalneav> So I'll need to get back on that.
<sbalneav> I sure can.
<LaserJock> awesome, thanks
<Lns> sbalneav: if you want to know my bugs... they are (and they are not all LTSP specific, but rather semi-large-scale ubuntu deployment specific) LP #s 19033 206583 37253 150068 154685 239342 259163
<sbalneav> LaserJock: can you add me back into edubuntu-bugs, or is that something ogra has to do?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ogra for now, since I'm not in yet either ;-)
<ogra> ??
<LaserJock> ogra: sbalneav and I aren't in ~edubuntu-bugs currently
<sbalneav> ogra: hey, I think I got booted from the edubuntu-bugs team.  Add me back in?
<ogra> i wonder why i didnt get a notification
<ogra> LaserJock, re-added
<LaserJock> ogra: danke
<sbalneav> Thankee ogra
<ogra> sbalneav, too
<ogra> any of you wanna be an admin ?
<LaserJock> I can do it
<LaserJock> it's always good to have more than one :-)
<ogra> done
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> gracias
<ogra> especially if the main admin doesnt get mail notifications :(
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you think 2 weeks before an ltsp bug day?
<LaserJock> I could run a non-ltsp bug day either before or after
<Lns> Would it make sense to have a "group" of real-world UbuntuLTSP/Edubuntu administrators to prioritize certain issues, bugs and feature requests that are common amongst all of them, to more formally present to devs?
<Lns> If the admins can, "offline", gather information like this, maybe it would help in the process of bug squashing when the devs know how important certain ones are
<ogra> LaserJock, that would make a lot of sense, i'll pull in the last upstream wed. night
<ogra> last minute before FF :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra> as usual
<LaserJock> I've got a last minute I'm trying to do
 * ogra has a million last minute things for ubuntu-mobile so that somewhat hogs me
<ogra> plus i took the taks to get touchscreens proper into hal-input
<LaserJock> Lns: well, initially I think we need to take stock of what we have, get them triaged
<ogra> so they work at least basically in intrepid
<LaserJock> Lns: certainly opening some discussion on the mailing list would be useful
<Lns> LaserJock: ok...but who's going to determine which ones are the most important?
<Lns> I'm thinking more along the lines of a "formal" group of administrators
<LaserJock> well, tbh, that's usually not much of an issue
<Lns> the mailing list seems to be a mix of admins, users and devs
<LaserJock> people generally work on what they can when they can and it's usually fairly easy to determine what needs prioritization
<LaserJock> Lns: do you feel there's a lack of priority?
<Lns> LaserJock: I do, in some cases
<Lns> for instance
<LaserJock> at this point I'm shooting for "can we get a CD that installs" :-)
<Lns> LP 19033 has been an issue for a while now...and that's a huge priority to me and other admins who wish to deploy centralized firefox configs
<sbalneav> Lns: just FYI, the bugs you provided me with, as far as I can see, none of them are LTSP related, with the possible exception of the fast user switcher
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 19033 in firefox "systemwide default startup homepage ignored" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19033
<Lns> sbalneav: i know..i think my motivation is in larger scope than ltsp-specific issues
<Lns> and maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree, but you guys are the ones i communicate mostly with about this kind of stuff
<LaserJock> nah, I think it's appropriate really
<LaserJock> but we need to work on getting people pointed in the right direction
<Lns> since i'm using Ubuntu and LTSP as my setup, i come to you guys whne i have problems :)
<LaserJock> ok, well see here's part of my LTPS/Edubuntu issue
<LaserJock> I wonder if it'd make sense to have a LTSP subteam or something
<LaserJock> rather than Edubuntu == LTSP
<sbalneav> The problem is, what's edubuntu except: some artwork, a bunch of package install defaults (edu + ltsp).
<LaserJock> because there are aspects of LTSP being on the Ubuntu disk than should probably be run through Ubuntu or Ubuntu Server channels
<sbalneav> qcad developers don't hang here, nor do kdeedu
<sbalneav> the only people who DO hang here are ltsp people.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> there are a few upstreams that do
<sbalneav> simply because LTSP is the most complicated thing to set up.
<LaserJock> gcompris for instance
<LaserJock> right, so I don't think we (as Edubuntu) should ditch LTSP
<LaserJock> but perhaps it makes sense to sub-team it in some way
<Lns> My main issues generally revolve around multi-user Ubuntu installations residing on a single server - not necessarily the LTSP part, but everything that encompasses having many users on a single server.
<LaserJock> so that we can let LTSP issues be focused on, and not entirely by Edubuntu, which doesn't have a lot of resources
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Well, I think the simplest way to do that, now that LTSP is officially "upstream" again, is to just forward people onto #ltsp.
<LaserJock> hmm, yes, that is a good point
<sbalneav> since ogra, myself (getting back to it) both hang out here and #ltsp, it should be good.
<LaserJock> it's more moving LTSP from Edubuntu to upstream than from Edubuntu to Ubuntu in reality
<sbalneav> Probably the SIMPLEST thing would be for you to ALSO hang out on #ltsp, then you could guide people over, and drop them off to our tender ministrations :)
<LaserJock> pfft
<Lns> lol
<LaserJock> you're just trying to turn me to the dark side
<sbalneav> heh
<LaserJock> "do as we do, say what we say"
<sbalneav> Exactly
<LaserJock> well, I do have the LTSP figure
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> "Welcome to #ltsp, where the only thing thin are the clients"
 * Lns falls over
<sbalneav> I think that makes the most sense, since #ltsp can help edubuntu people effectively with LTSP issues.
<Lns> so i have a (maybe dumb) question that might or might not be related
<sbalneav> Then that gets the ltsp out of this channel, and over to the one where they'll have the best chance of getting help.
<Lns> hmm..well maybe not a question
<sbalneav> for LTSP stuff anyway.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so a good bug triage session would be good to figure out what's LTSP specific and to forward on to LTSP where needed?
<sbalneav> Well, LTSP uses launchpad for it's tracking anyway, so that's not a problem.
<LaserJock> oh, right, cool
<LaserJock> easy then
<sbalneav> I WAS looking at bugs, but the last 6 months my life fell apart, so I got out of triaging bugs.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Lns> for example - i have issues with gnome-system-monitor and killing other users' processes. This is definitely in relation to LTSP since it's an LTSP multi-user setup..but it almost seems as though the core ubuntu dev team is ditching focus on multi-user setups, for favour of the best single-user experience.
<sbalneav> I'll sit down tonight and wander through the LTSP bugs, and see which ones aren't an ussue anymore.
<LaserJock> Lns: I don't know that it's quite that distinct
<sbalneav> Lns: Does it work on the console, but not on an LTSP terminal?
<Lns> sbalneav: it works with sudo, but not with someone as part of the 'admin' group from a terminal
<LaserJock> Lns: often times it comes down to developers being able to reproduce/test and getting their attention in the first place
<Lns> (both from terminal)
<Lns> LaserJock: yeah - exactly
<Lns> LP 206583
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206583 in ubuntu "System Monitor crashes when lowering nice value of process" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206583
<Lns> fix released?! =)
<Lns> that's new
<LaserJock> Lns: for the first part getting Edubuntu people involved with testing is a win, and for the second, getting bug filled out right and against the right packages is key
<Lns> LaserJock: see that's where i see a semi-formal/formal group of admins who have someone that *knows* the right packages can help filter out all the individual chatter/bug dupes/etc
<LaserJock> Lns: correct, this is where ~edubuntu-bugs comes in
<LaserJock> we need to get admins signed up and trained :-)
<Lns> but see, for those who don't technically use edubuntu, they might not look there...
<Lns> i know this is way beyond the scope of what you guys can help with
<Lns> so i hope you don't mind me brainstorming with you
<LaserJock> no problem at all
<Lns> =)
<LaserJock> and there are things that can probably be done
<LaserJock> one central issue is the whole Ubuntu Education/ Edubuntu thing
<Lns> For me, I would love to be a cornerstone, almost a point of contact for a group of admins that deal with Edubuntu, LTSP, Ubuntu, multi-user servers, and everything in between
<LaserJock> a lot of people use Ubuntu + LTSP and not Edubuntu at all
<Lns> because it bleeds into every other aspect of ubuntu
<Lns> exactly - like me
<LaserJock> but all our team structure is still Edubuntu
<Lns> but again, i come here when it's ubuntu/ltsp specific (and #ltsp)
<LaserJock> mailing lists, LP teams, etc.
<sbalneav> Lns: See, thats NOT really a problem with LTSP.  And I know I'm beating this horse into hamburger but you/I/we REALLY need to make sure we distinguish between "An LTSP bug" vs "I've run into a bug, and I'm running an LTSP environment".  This one looks like a Gnome bug, that only manisfests itself when you're outside a single user environment
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I think that's key
<Lns> sbalneav: exactly.
<LaserJock> what we need is a LTSPers guide to filing bugs
<Lns> that's the thing though, most administrators (i'm learning as much as i can) but MOST admins don't even know HOW to file a bug
<LaserJock> to help point them towards when to file against LTSP and when not to
<Lns> LaserJock: i don't know if that would help...i think we need a filtering system so that the people who know how to file bugs can, on behalf of others
<Lns> it becomes too technical for a lot of people
<Lns> as silly as that might sound
<LaserJock> well, it can be done fairly well :-)
<LaserJock> a combination of good bug filing documentation and ~edubuntu-bugs would probably help dramatically
<Lns> i dunno...the techs i work with don't even really understand how ltsp works, let alone finding a package name that pertains to their bug
<LaserJock> well, it's not too bad in a lot of ways
<sbalneav> Lns: And did they read the Edubuntu handbook?
<Lns> laserjock, no, i agree
<Lns> sbalneav: nope..and most of them won't understand it if they did
<LaserJock> in the QA team we've put a lot of emphasis on Launchpad developers to make it easier to find what package to file bugs against
<LaserJock> in the future we'll have search algorithms and per-package bug filing instructions to help
<sbalneav> Lns: So, how do you propose to fix that probmlem?
<Lns> I love how LP has improved, and I agree that it is very easy to file bugs
<Lns> but when you come against the mass of admins out there, filing hundreds of duplicate bugs because they don't want to search through the possible list of dupes...it becomes an issue
<LaserJock> but for right now I think we can help people say "this looks like an LTSP bug" or "this is not an LTSP bug"
<Lns> sbalneav: well one thing i can think of is forming a group of administrators with a hierarchy of their own
<LaserJock> things like "can you reproduce this bug on a system that doesn't have LTSP installed?"
<Lns> so things can get handled in the best way possible
<Lns> LaserJock: and a lot of people can't even test that if they don't have a non-ltsp system available
<sbalneav> Lns: At your site, or here in #edubuntu?
<LaserJock> dpkg -l | grep ltsp will probably suffice
<Lns> sbalneav: i'm thinking in relation to edubuntu/ubuntu/ltsp, but at my site / a separate portal/entity/whatever
<LaserJock> the other aspect of all this, is we're not exactly drowning in bugs
<Lns> LaserJock: not yet ;)
<Lns> but if you make it easy enough to file bugs
<Lns> just think of if microsoft has such an easy bug filing system
<LaserJock> we make it easier to file *better* bugs
<Lns> that would be a nightmare
<Lns> that's where the emphasis should be, yes
<Lns> imho
<Lns> but
<Lns> still - when the userbase grows, the weeds will start to crop up none the less
<LaserJock> that's why community is important
<LaserJock> by that time we'll have a good triaging team to look after weeds
<Lns> yes...the structure.
<LaserJock> so, to start off I think we need as close-knit of a team as we can
<Lns> i think i might start looking into how to form a group of multi-user Ubuntu administrators
<LaserJock> Lns: I think the Server Team may have some interest as well in that regard
<Lns> server team?
<Lns> canonical support server team?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Server Team, the people who make the Ubuntu Server distro
<Lns> oh ok
 * Lns wouldn't have initially thought to look there either since he installs ubuntu-desktop on his ltsp servers ;)
<LaserJock> granted
<LaserJock> LTSP is in an odd position there
<LaserJock> but server people are often interested in multi-user environments
<Lns> seems like a valuable resource to look into none the less
<Lns> well thank you guys for the long chat
<LaserJock> in some ways I'm feeling like we need to start from scratch
<Lns> it's helped me understand the whole structure a bit better
<Lns> start what from scratch?
<LaserJock> figuring out what we want Edubuntu to be, what our targets are
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu"
<LaserJock> not in terms of getting rid of everything we have
<LaserJock> but in terms of re-evaluation of where we want to head
<LaserJock> I really like what Xubuntu did with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Intrepid/StrategyDocument
<LaserJock> though it's rather long ;-)
<Lns> My main push into edubuntu was the LTSP part of it
<Lns> wow
<Lns> yeah that looks nice
<LaserJock> that would then give us a much better basis for decision making and make Edubuntu maybe more focused
<LaserJock> as well as give something people can say "oh cool, I want to be a part of that!"
<Lns> I think all limbs of Ubuntu should have that kind of structure
<LaserJock> Lns: you subscribed to edubuntu-devel?
<Lns> no - actually just edubuntu-user at the moment
<Lns> and ltsp-discus
<Lns> s
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I'd like to see this kind of discussion moving to edubuntu-devel
<Lns> ok, i'll sub to it
<LaserJock> I think one difficult aspect of Edubuntu is that Ubuntu is heavily IRC-dependent whereas I think many Edubuntu users are more email-focused
<Lns> well i've seen that many educational-sector people are definitely e-mail driven
<Lns> no matter what the project
<LaserJock> the fact that many educational institutions block IRC ports doesn't help ;-)
<Lns> hehe..very true.
<Lns> not many edu techs/teachers/admins have a lot of time to spend in front of their *own* screen, either
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> so having a good mailing list is, IMO, fairly critical to getting the developer <-> user communication going better
<Lns> LaserJock: i agree...and facilities that might be able to port information/communications to/from the mailing list, as well...as, of course, everyone likes to do things a bit differently ;)
#edubuntu 2008-08-27
<LaserJock> boy there are some interesting LP accounts with "edubuntu" in the name:  edubuntu-wood-floors-ireland ?
<amirman> hi, i was wondering if there are any reallllly easy games that could help my three year old learn how to use a mouse
<LaserJock> amirman: I'd look at gcompris maybe
<LaserJock> I believe there are games for kids to learn keyboard/mouse skills
<LaserJock> highvoltage: good point ;-)
<highvoltage> :)
<tsurc> Hi, I'm doing a new install on a HP Proliant DL140-G2. But I only have an the latest point release of the ubuntu-server cd.
<tsurc> after installing just a bare server, running sudo aptitude update, sudo aptitude dist-upgrade then rebooting for the new kernel to take effect whats the best way to go to get an ltsp server install.
<ogra> first of all install ubuntu-desktop
<tsurc> and not edubuntu-server?
<tsurc> ah, I see why now....
<tsurc> So after installing ubuntu-desktop I install ltsp-server-standalone?
<LaserJock> ogra: you still around? I've got a couple idea I wanted to bounce off of you
<ogra> as long as it doesnt keep me from FF work
 * ogra is *very* busy getting ready for feature freeze
<LaserJock> I just wondered 1) would it be ok to use seeds for edubuntu-addon-meta? 2) maybe we should move lots of edubuntu-desktop Depends to Recommends
<LaserJock> for 1) I was trying to figure out why rasmol wasn't getting demoted and I realized that I forgot that it was still a dep of edubuntu-addon-science. A single place to change meta deps would be nice
<ogra> edubuntu-addon-science is universe, no ?
<LaserJock> for 2) we can move KDE Edu and at least gcompris-sound-* to Recommends so that people can uninstall them if they want while still retaining edubuntu-desktop
 * ogra thought so
<LaserJock> no
<ogra> ouch
<LaserJock> only edubuntu-addon-xfce is in universe
<ogra> ah
 * ogra is fine with recommends
<LaserJock> the others are still in Main and I plan on adding them to the addon installer menu
<ogra> for everything
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<LaserJock> ogra: nice to see you blogging again, btw :-)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> was about time
<ogra> i pushed it all the time with the excuse i would do it if i had a new server
<ogra> but i dont find time for setting up a server
<LaserJock> well, wordpress.com is so easy
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> moquist: have you done any testing with Intrepid at all?
<LaserJock> I wonder what shape moodle is int
<LaserJock> -t
 * moquist waves bye to LaserJock
#edubuntu 2008-08-28
<LaserRock> ogra: btw, xaos has an interesting depwait on i386, you might want to look at the build log at some point
<ogra> fixed
<BiNaRyCoDe> Hello ppl, I need help
<Goosemoose> anyone have a preseed file they're using to distribute edubuntu?
<Lns> Java 2 / Swing....possible in Edubuntu/Ubuntu? If so, what do I need to install? I already have sun-java6-bin/sun-java6-jre/sun-java6-plugin 6-06-0ubuntu1 installed.
<Lns> (and java-common 0.28ubuntu3)
<Lns> is anyone having major issues with ubuntu repos right now?
<Lns> they seem dog slow to me
<pem725> Greetings, I have a quick nat question I think...anyone have a second to answer?
<Lns> !question
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<pem725> can a edubuntu-standalone server be a common gateway to other non-thin clients?
<Lns> pem725: i believe so
<pem725> great
<Lns> do you have 2 nics?
<pem725> yep
<pem725> everything setup according to the handbook
<Lns> yeah - if they're on the same subnet then i'm sure you can (specially if dhcp is on edu-svr)
<pem725> the thin clients work like a charm
<Lns> awesome =)
<pem725> my fat clients get an ip address from dhcp but no forwarding takes place
<Lns> pem725: i think you might need to set that up manually then
<Lns> i forget exactly what it is
<pem725> I even followed the ip forwarding for nat in the handbook - or perhaps elsewhere I cannot recall
<Lns> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/blah blah something or other
<pem725> ah yes,
<pem725> done
<pem725> already put ip_forwarding to 1
<Lns> how about setting up a default route
<pem725> ok, how?
<pem725> Lns - no worries, I got it.  Thanks
<Lns> oh sorry - didn't see your reply
<moquist> hardy says: "User Switcher" has quit unexpectedly
<moquist> also, it takes ~50s for the logout dialog to appear
<moquist> hmm. I don't know that I've ever tested the console; I've only logged into TCs.
<Lns> user switcher should really be disabled on TCs
<LaserJock> I thought it was
<moquist> well, it's not running now ;)
<Lns> mine was installed/running by default
<Lns> and I get an error when trying to switch
<Lns> "Permissions error: Your user does not have permissions to create additional logins. Check your ~/.Xauthority setup.  Details: ~/.Xauthority file badly configured or missing. 100 Not authenticated"
#edubuntu 2008-08-29
<Lns> Java 2 / Swing....possible in Edubuntu/Ubuntu? If so, what do I need to install? I already have sun-java6-bin/sun-java6-jre/sun-java6-plugin 6-06-0ubuntu1 installed.
<LaserJock> Lns: this is really not the channel to get help with that :-)
<LaserJock> Lns: I'd ask #ubuntu-java
<Lns> fine! =p oh didn't know that chan existed..thx
<cilkay> Hello. Are there any issues with installing KDE on Edubuntu?
<cilkay> I've installed KDE on Ubuntu and aside from how things weren't quite as polished as on Kubuntu, it was fine.
<Guest31881> q
#edubuntu 2008-08-30
<indent> hi all
<indent> i need a help
<indent> i cant boot into windows after i install ubuntu
<indent> can somebody help me?
<indent> hi..
#edubuntu 2008-08-31
<kwak> hi, i need an urgent help. I booted all my 25 thin clients now, but some are now getting address from the DHCP server
<kwak> it just drops it
<Servtex> Can anyone help me get my ati drivers to work with ubuntu?
#edubuntu 2009-08-24
<Adrian1> Hello?
<Adrian1> hello is there anyone in here
<Adrian1> ?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<dgroos> Evening sbalneav
<dgroos> a quick preview of the PS I just added to an edubuntu lists e-mail: "PS  Awesome that Sabayon is working--kudos to sbalneav and to LaserJock as well."
<dgroos> I really mean it.  That will make a huge difference in the use of technology and education in my and the 2 other teachers who have their room setup.  Thanks.
<dgroos> And,
<dgroos> I'm just about to turn into a pumpkin but wanted to say that sabayon still seems to be functioning flawlessly--not a hiccup in the further tests :)
<dgroos> night...
<sbalneav> Night
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Around?
<alkisg> Good morning
<sbalneav> Evening alkisg
<sbalneav> Just squashed a few minor install bugs with sabayon
<sbalneav> trying to see if I can get highvoltage to sponsor an upload.
<alkisg> "published 5 minutes ago" good :)
<sbalneav> Yeah, sabayon-admin user and group wasn't created --system
<sbalneav> there were a couple more bad format strings in mozillasource.py as well.
<alkisg> "sponsor an upload" == where? in jaunty-updates?
<alkisg> !info sabayon
<ubottu> sabayon (source: sabayon): system administration tool to manage GNOME desktop settings. In component main, is optional. Version 2.22.1-0ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 117 kB, installed size 3044 kB
<sbalneav> I'll spend some time tomorrow, see if 2.27.91 with my fixes will work in hardy.
<sbalneav> make a hardy package
<alkisg> If it works as it is, you can just make a "hardy-copy" from your ppa
<alkisg> There's a "copy-packages" function, worked fine for me so far...
<sbalneav> Hm, never looked at that before.
<sbalneav> Should give it a try
<alkisg> This way you don't have to maintain 3 different changelogs (hardy, jaunty, karmic)
<sbalneav> The following source cannot be copied:
<sbalneav> * sabayon 2.27.91-0ubuntu5~ppa5 in jaunty (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)
<alkisg> Select "hardy" for destination series
<sbalneav> I did :(
<alkisg> Let me copy it over to my ppa and see if it compiles...
<alkisg> Copied here: https://launchpad.net/~alkisg/+archive/ppa
<sbalneav> Well, we'll see if it compiles.
<alkisg> I use "copy packages" a lot, to maintain an "updates" repository for greek teachers. In it, I copy ltsp* and xlib packages from stgraber's ppa, sabayon from yours, italc from edubuntu-devel etc: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa
<alkisg> sbalneav: failed: checking for intltool >= 0.40.0... 0.37.1 found
<alkisg> configure: error: Your intltool is too old.  You need intltool 0.40.0 or later.
<sbalneav> meh.
<sbalneav> I'll look at it tomorrow.  Too tired tonight.
<alkisg> Ok man. Really good work, thanks :)
<sbalneav> I'll probably just have to adjust some of the buildepends down.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: good morning
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm not a MOTU yet either, I'm currently also learning from stgraber
<nubae> highvoltage, there?
<highvoltage> nubae: yep. wondering about ltsp-cluster bugs?
<nubae> that too :-) heh
<nubae> but more... suggesting we set up a meeting
<nubae> its been a really long time, and I think it might be worth letting people know that edubuntu is not totally dead... people did seem to put an effort up for help and stuff
<nubae> laserjock is probably really busy, but that doesnt mean we can't do a meeting anyway
<highvoltage> you're right
<highvoltage> mind suggesting a date/time?
<nubae> highvoltage, how about Thursday or Friday?
<nubae> gives us enough time to gather people
<highvoltage> nubae: that will work for me
<nubae> cool, what time? and will u write to the list?
<highvoltage> nubae: ok, afternoon UTC times are good. is 17:00 UTC good for you?
<nubae> yeah
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Hey, can you upload packages in main?
<sbalneav> How do I go about getting what's in my ppa into karmic?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: no, not because I don't want to, but I'm only going to apply for MOTU soon so I don't have the rights yet
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> I'll talk to ogra
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ogra said he'll sponsor your packages, it would be best to give him a ping, but I'll be happy to help with anything else I can
<highvoltage> sbalneav: if you have questions about the packages, etc
<sbalneav> Well, last night I fixed another couple of bugs, related to install.
<sbalneav> The sabayon-admin user wasn't a --system user, so was conflicting for someone with ldap users.
<sbalneav> As well, purging the package removed the user, but not the sabayon group
<highvoltage> cool
<sbalneav> ogra: Ping over here in less noisy edubuntu channel :)
<sbalneav> dgroos: Morning
<sbalneav> New packages in my ppa
<dgroos> Good Morn, sgalneav
<sbalneav> They fix a couple of more mozilla crashers, as well as some install problems.
<sbalneav> f you try it out, you'll need to apt-get purge sabayon before the install
<sbalneav> and maybe manually remove the sabayon-admin group
<dgroos> Awesome!  Thanks for your work.
<dgroos> Will that remove the users I've created?
<dgroos> --profiles I mean
<dgroos> Not a problem, looks like I need to make the least-restrictive profile first, then copy it and make progressively more restrictive profiles.
<dgroos> so, won't hurt to start afresh at all.
<sbalneav> Profiles are stored in /etc/desktop-profiles, and since they're conffiles, they wont be deleted even with a purge.
<sbalneav> If you want to hose them, just delete them manually
<dgroos> k
<sbalneav> I'm going to see if I can make a hardy package today.
<dgroos> that will make many people happy :)
<dgroos> As I said, I'll try and get the word out...  when?
<sbalneav> When it appears in my ppa :)
<dgroos> is there going to be a release party or something? ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<sbalneav> Phht, doubt it.
<sbalneav> when (and if) packages ever get out of my ppa into main, I'll just close the bugs.
<sbalneav> Since I've fixed the bugs by basically moving to a new version of sabayon, I suspect my fixes will only ever "officially" get into karmic
<sbalneav> with hardy, jaunty, etc. people simply pulling updates from my ppa
<dgroos> OK
<dgroos> Seems like we need a new Sabayon page in the wiki -- where's ace_suares?
<sbalneav> unless someone wants to go through the hassle of spearheading convincing someone to replace a non-working package in an LTS release with a working one, which, for whatever reason, always seems surprisingly hard.
<sbalneav> Gone.
<dgroos> :(
<sbalneav> I suspect we won't see him again.
<sbalneav> I hope we do.  But....
<sbalneav> morning alkisg
<dgroos> Where's he hanging out?  I'd like to encourage his re-appearance...
<sbalneav> No idea.
<sbalneav> My suspicion is that he felt things weren't making rapid enough progress, and moved on.
<highvoltage> who? ogra?
<sbalneav> ace_suares
<highvoltage> ah
<mhall119|work> too bad, he seemed like he wanted to do so much
<mhall119|work> I guess that's kind of how things have gone for edubuntu for a while though, hasn't it?
<dgroos> "... like driving an ocean liner..."  Communities change due to sustained leadership and he was really doing stuff.
<highvoltage> I can completely relate to people getting frustrated when things don't move fast enough. Edubuntu has lots of potential, but with current resources it's going to take a bit time to build up
<sbalneav> I don't want to pass judgement on him, as he may just be on holidays, or busy with other projects... However...
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: there were some terbulent times for edubuntu up until a few months back, and things stagnated yes
<sbalneav> from my 15+ years as a Free Software Developer...
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: we've been putting the pieces togeher and have been listening to our users more, this next release will be more like a 1.0 release again
<mhall119|work> awesome
<sbalneav> There are many people who come into projects, guns blazing, ready to "change the world" and "shake things up"
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: but for karmic+1 and up I think we'll be able to really build on that and make a difference
<mhall119|work> I'll try and get Michelle to go back to working on the documentation
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav, hi all
<mhall119|work> we've been pretty busy lately
<sbalneav> Their appearence is usualy accompanied by such musings as "Why are you doing things *this* way..." etc.
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: by then we'll probably be able to get ace and similar people back on board
<highvoltage> hi alkisg
<mhall119|work> I have some Qimo packages in my PPA, that I'll be putting the final touches on soon
<sbalneav> However, a month into realizing the herculean task that they've assigned themselves, they quietly peter away.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes, I've noticed it too, they usually don't want to take the time to learn much about the project and its processes before contributing it
<sbalneav> I hope he comes back.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and with something as big as ubuntu, as we both learned, those processes can take some time to learn
<sbalneav> Remember that fellow who was here about 3 months back?  Did two weeks of filing bugs, then figured that should be enough to get full ubuntu membership and upload rights to main?
 * sbalneav looks around
<sbalneav> We voted on him and said "needs more time contributing".  Now, he's gone.
<sbalneav> Well, for this upcoming release:
<sbalneav> LTSP's in good shape.
<sbalneav> Sabayon's looking decent.
<sbalneav> I have to start in work soon on the manuals.
<sbalneav> As well, I'd like to squash a few crashers on the edu aps.
<dgroos> How bout iTALC?  I can't get it to work!
<sbalneav> Not on my radar.
<sbalneav> Feel free to work on it
<alkisg> italc is in pretty well shape too, but I hope we get a 2.0 version soon with many upstream features
<dgroos> Like Sabayon, it's one of the few must-have apps for managing a class of computers
<dgroos> alkisg: for Jaunty does it work?  What magic did you perform?
<alkisg> Lns also said his tcm-ng (something like italc) is going to be working soonish
<mhall119|work> does Sabayon have a method of applying profiles to newly created accounts?
<alkisg> dgroos: I just did sudo apt-get install italc-master. Nothing, nothing else.
<dgroos> How do I *completely* remove it so I can start over?  I've a feeling there might be some old config files or something that's 'polluting the waters'.
<alkisg> dgroos: Are you going to use it normally (=on the server), or as a localapp?
<dgroos> Ideally, it would be as a localapp, but I can't get it to work on the server so...
<alkisg> OK if you want I might be able to help you in troubleshooting this some time later on.
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks so much. I'll first try to remove those config files and reinstall and get back to you as needed :)
<dgroos> Morning Lns.
<Lns> morning dgroos =)
<sbalneav> Lns: tcm-ng, is there a bzr site or ppa somewhere?
<Lns> sbalneav: yes, should be on lp
<Lns> lp:tcm-ng ?
<sbalneav> Lns: Who's Rene?
<Lns> sbalneav: moldy - you can meet him in #lns
<Lns> oh actually he's in #ltsp too
<sbalneav> Was he just looking for a project to do, or is he actively using LTSP?
<sbalneav> Can't remember who suggested it, but there was a good suggestion of having a meta package like "ltsp-management-tools" that installed things like tcm-ng and sabayon.
<sbalneav> might be worth looking into at some point.
<Lns> sbalneav: yeah that was me
<Lns> moldy is working on tcm right now, dunno if he's up for any other projects, you can always ask :)
<Lns> sbalneav: i know moldy is looking at debian packaging, maybe we can get him to whip something together :)
<Lns> sbalneav: i know you mentioned it before - are you going to try and make a hardy package at some point? if so, I will definitely test it as i have multiple sites using it still and the techs would eat it up like little candy penguins ;)
<mottz> I am experiencing an issue with ldm_autologin much like bug#161794 except using 5.1.65-0ubuntu2. Has anyone else encountered this?
<alkisg> mottz: try to get a local terminal on the client, run getltscfg -a and see if LDM_USERNAME / LDM_PASSWORD etc reach the client
<mottz> yes
<mottz> They reach the client.
<alkisg> Can you upload the result of getltscfg -a to pastebot.ltsp.org? (of course delete the username/pass if you want)
<mottz> done
<mottz> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/485
<mottz> what is really strang is the auth.log from the server. Seems ldm is logging in with the hostname and not the username in lts.conf
<mottz> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/486
<detrix> Hello folks.  I cant get gcompris or gcompris admin to start.  I am getting the following error "no module named 'Numeric' in 'garbage collection' ignored      Fatal Error: unexpected exception during garbage collection.
<Lns> detrix: interesting..what *buntu release are you on?
<detrix> Lns: I have jaunty  9.04
<Lns> detrix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/328917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328917 in gcompris "GCompris core dumps at load time in kubuntu jaunty jackalope (alpha 3)" [Undecided,New]
<Lns> detrix: have you updated the whole system? I've used gcompris in jaunty recently and it seemed to work fine
<detrix> everything is up to date.
<alkisg> mottz: LMD_USERNAME="kroom" ==> typo
<alkisg> LDM, not LMD
<Lns> detrix: looks like you can 'sudo apt-get install python-numeric' to fix the issue as a workaround
<detrix> Lns: ok.  cool.  thanks
<detrix> l
<detrix> Lns: it works.  thanks alot
<sbalneav> Lns: I'm going to look at hardy packages this evening.
<Lns> detrix: =)
<Lns> sbalneav: cool!
<sbalneav> I'm hoping I just have to downgrade some builddeps, current packages need intltool 0.4.0, but hardy only has 0.3.7
<sbalneav> I can't see that sabayon's doing anything special that wouldn't work on an older gnome.
<Lns> nice. well i'll keep a look out for it on your ppa then start testing here at my site when it's up =)
<mottz> alkisg: Thanks I updated lmd ==>ldm.
<alkisg> mottz: everything works now?
<mottz> Now I get kernel panic
<alkisg> Hmm? And you didn't get that before, and you do now by only changing lmd => ldm? ?!!!!
<mottz> yeah, if I comment out ldm_autologin, it works fine
<alkisg> When do you get the kernel panic? And what does it say?
<mottz> after boot splash
<alkisg> That doesn't sound related to ldm_autologin... What does it say?
<mottz> Alright. I testd it with autologin commented. Logged in with kroom, restarted with autologin enabled and it worked. No kernel panic...
<mottz> Maybe the client machine or nic. dell demention 4100 PXE v 2.00
<mottz> Thanks for you help. It's never the computer's fault!
<alkisg> Sure it is, many bugs around :)
<mottz> :q!
<alkisg> Most of the times I see kernel panic during the boot process it's 2 dhcp servers around
<alkisg> So if the wrong dhcp server is selected the ltsp server isn't contacted
<mottz> I used alt 9.04 ubuntu install and then installed the edu addon.
<mottz> top
<mottz> srry keep using the wrong key board
<mhall119|work> where's LaserJock?
<highvoltage> he's inbetween internet connections atm, busy moving
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: they're looking for someone from edubuntu in #ubuntu-meeting
<sbalneav> I can go
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I told you this morning that I'm not a MOTU yet :)
<sbalneav> yeah, forgot.
<sbalneav> once I get an idear in my head, it's hard to shift.
<nubae> highvoltage, so meeting Friday 17.00 utc?
<nubae> just mentioned it to sbalneav
<sbalneav> Old age, I expect.
<highvoltage> stgraber says that I'm about ready to apply, I'll do so soon
<highvoltage> nubae: ok, will send to list, it slipped my mind. I guess I'm also getting old :)
<sbalneav> nubae: from my point of view here's what I've accomplished:
<sbalneav> 1) Sabayon's working now, had several good reports
<nubae> oh nice, I'll give it whirl tomorrow at work then...
<sbalneav>   1a) Apparently, I'm not only an upstream now for sabayon, debian wants me to take over packaging for sabayon there too :)
<nubae> include it in guadalinex
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: nice!
<sbalneav> 2) ltsp-docs are fairly complete, and vagrantc in #ltsp's helping me with some packaging, which we can steal from.
<sbalneav> 3) Later this week I'll start working on the edubuntu handbook
<nubae> yeah, that needs some loving, I can help out with that too
<sbalneav> once that's done, I'll squash any bugs I can in edu apps before time runs out.
 * nubae has been busy with a python app to create lesson plans, called pyclic... similar to jclic
<sbalneav> If Lns gets a tcm-ng going, even in ppa form for karmic, we should be in good shape
<nubae> one uploads an image, points and clicks on the image to place buttons with numbers, and those correspond to labels, which the user then needs to guess...
<highvoltage> sbalneav: great
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it's really nice to see the progress on sabayon
<nubae> so its like have a repetoire of lesson plans for different subjects (kind of a fill in the blanks and name the objects)
<nubae> everything is in xml, so can be send via xmpp for collaboration using telepathy framework... thats the end goal
<nubae> yeah karmic will have some nice additions
<nubae> I hope to have my app ready for then too - the xmpp collaboration stuff I guess
<nubae> but from what I hear empathy is going to be the default messaging client now, which is cool
<nubae> also... we have latest sugar working now... so we should make sure that makes it into karmic too
<highvoltage> sounds cool
<Lns> sbalneav: i think at the very least a ppa for karmic will be doable
<dgroos> Along with help from jimrockford I'm trying to make CmapTools work as a local app--it stopped working a couple weeks ago and have yet to get it to work.  Are the LTSP people the group to talk about localapps?
<nubae> dgroos, yes
<nubae> how did it stop working though? explain a little, maybe we can help
<dgroos> On an upgrade of the chroot.  For a while the ltsp-localapps command wasn't working on anything, though now it is.
<dgroos> nubae: thanks, BTW, for your offer of help,  I'm unfortunately at my school setting up my room--first day back at school--and have the server set up at my house.
<dgroos> do I recall that you are in Germany?
<dgroos> wait, that would mean that it would be around 2:00 AM :)
<nubae> its 12 am actually
<dgroos> really!  I don't have a good sense of time zones outside of US and GB where my sister lives.
<nubae> anyway, wahts the problem?
<alkisg> Lns, did you try sabayon for hardy?
<nubae> alkisg, we have a edubuntu meeting on Friday 17.00 utc
<nubae> hopefully u can make it?
<nubae> present u're idea too
<alkisg> nubae: saw it, I hope I will. Will you apply for edubuntu member?
<dgroos> Well, CmapTools is not open source/GNOME software though it is free-ware for schools and non-business users.
<nubae> I applied almost a year ago
<nubae> heh...
<alkisg> Yeah but you lost a couple of meetings where they were to approve it :)
<nubae> think its a formality that edubuntu council has to be there or something
<nubae> I would hope I am approved
<dgroos> Anyway, no longer does ltsp-localapps CmapTools launch the software.
<nubae> yeah guess I was sorta absent :/
<alkisg> I was in 2 meetings where laserjock was asking on your whereabouts, and said that they could not approve you if you weren't there in person...
<nubae> yah
<nubae> well, its no massive deal
<alkisg> Sure, still it'll be nice to have another edubuntu member
<nubae> yeah
<alkisg> nubae@ubuntu.com .... heh :)
<nubae> so... did u do a write up of your project some place?
<nubae> launchpad or so?
<alkisg> Which one?
<nubae> or u think drbl is too close a competitor?
<nubae> the one u mentioned to me the other day
<Lns> alkisg: haven't yet - is it in scottie's ppa now for hardy?
<alkisg> Ah that one. No, I didn't write it anywhere, I'm trying to make it a little better
<alkisg> Lns, yup
<nubae> well if u write it up, others can chip in their 2 cents
<Lns> cool =) I'll probably check it out either in about an hour or tomorrow in the afternoon (it's 3:00pm here)
<nubae> by others I include myself I guess
<alkisg> nubae: I'm able to boot correctly with nfs rw, but I'm having some problems with nfs ro (=keyboard/mouse doesn't work - maybe some consolekit dir isn't writable)
<nubae> greetings Lns btw
 * Lns greets nubae  =)
<alkisg> nubae: I've talked with ogra about it, though
<nubae> Lns, u be at meeting?
<nubae> and what'd he say?
<Lns> it's in my sunbird =)
<nubae> he'd have interesting input
<alkisg> Well he told me it's doable, but he'd prefer to either do it with an ltsp-based script, or by reusing the livecd
<alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot
<nubae> yeah, kinda what I thought too
<nubae> u could look at kiwi too
<nubae> but thats suse only I guess
<alkisg> But I don't want a chroot, nor a squashfs image, so... I'll have to implement it from scratch
<nubae> but easiest would be to use ltsp, then u could just hack my scripy
<nubae> script
<alkisg> I looked at opensuse studio. Nice, but I can't use it to integrate 3 Gb of apps
<alkisg> Sure, ltsp would be the easier for development, but not for the users
<nubae> i don't quite understand why u dislike chroots so much :-)
<alkisg> Because all the existing gui administration tools can't be used in chroot
<nubae> re: susestudio... y not?
<nubae> also... kiwi is not susestudio... thats different
<nubae> though susestudio uses kiwi technology
<alkisg> I think they'll only enable me to upload files by the web interface, and not 3 Gb of files that I want to integrate...
<nubae> but suse ltsp uses it too for example
<dgroos> jimrockford tried lots of stuff, including writing the absolute path to the executable /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/IHMC_CmapTools/bin/CmapTools into lts.conf...
<nubae> sure u can... I know projects with more than 3 gigs
<nubae> the edu project has close to 3 gigs
<alkisg> nubae: kiwi is based on images, right? So it would be pretty much like a chroot
<nubae> more like a livecd
<nubae> not a chroot
<dgroos> created a file named cmap.desktop by coping and pasting code found at: http://wiki.k12opensource.com/page/diff/Cmap/77929541?mode=visual
<nubae> dgroos, what happens when u launch?
<dgroos> it doesn't launch...
<nubae> from suse's pages:
<alkisg> nubae: well, the same problems go for live cds as well. Difficult for the teachers to upgrade/customize etc. Good for preinstalled "appliances", but not for everyday use.
<nubae> KIWI is an image system that provides a complete operating system image
<nubae> it uses smart for package installation
<nubae> that at least is gui based
<nubae> smart is actually a pretty nice package manager... I did some translation work for their project
<nubae> very cross platform
<alkisg> Yeah images are a level of redirection that I'd like to avoid. If I try for some days and that won't get me anywhere, then I'll start looking at the other alternatives.. (with your fat clients script = the first to look)
<nubae> if kiwi were more cross platform, it would be a nice alternative
<Lns> +1 nubae
<nubae> its kind of an image, but a managable one
<alkisg> I don't know. It's still based on images.
<alkisg> You need different tools to manage it
<alkisg> Why duplicate all the tools, and force the users to learn 2 tools for the same jobs?
<nubae> because suse likes reinventing the wheel
<nubae> but usually in a good way
<alkisg> Heh. True. :)
<alkisg> It'd be better if they did it in a more cross-distro way, though
<dgroos> jumping in... I want an image of an edubuntu ltsp w/localapps already set up so that all I have to do use clonezilla to burn it onto my machine.
<nubae> http://moosy.blogspot.com/2008/07/kiwi-image-system.html
<nubae> there is a diagram there that explains it
<nubae> it uses xml files for configuration, which is cool because then u could use all kinds of tools to manage it
<alkisg> I'm still waiting for the "cross-distro version of easy-ltsp" :)
<nubae> heh, well keep waiting
<dgroos> I wouldn't have had to spend all summer to make an image of a server that I can use.
<nubae> one problem with opensuse folks is, they are moving forward fast and not really in any direction but their own
<Lns> dgroos: hopefully soon in the future we'll be taking a look at easy-LTSP and hoping to get it a bit more cross distro
<Lns> "soon in the future" being the operative word, after we feel really good about tcm :)
<alkisg> nubae: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/06/02/coming-soon-on-the-servers-near-you-easy-ltsp-ng/
<dgroos> REALLY easy ltsp/localapps?
<alkisg> Lns, did you take the -ng from them? :)
<Lns> lol, no, they took it from us actually ;)
<dgroos> I mean not easy for experienced linux folks, but tech-knowledgeable but linux newbies?
<Lns> it was weird, it was literally like a week after we announced we were picking up tcm that they announced easy-ltsp-ng =p
<nubae> well, I've looked at and used easy ltsp and its really really suse specific
<nubae> Its no easy job making it cross distro
<Lns> honestly i don't like the gui for it, it looks very cluttered to me..but jmho
<nubae> and that announcement was 4 months ago
<nubae> i doubt anything happened since then
<Lns> nubae: you know where they're at with that? (Jan I guess is the only current maintainer?)
<nubae> I havent heard anything on the channel, and I lurk there daily
<nubae> so...
<nubae> cyberorg is really the worker bee
<Lns> it seemed jan was really into making it x-dist
<nubae> so unless he's involved, it'll take a while
<Lns> was going to code in python and all
<Lns> hrm
<Lns> oh well..i guess we'll keep plugging along with TCM and see where we're at when the time comes to provide that kind of functionality
<nubae> I would code something from scratch in python specifically for ubuntu/debian
<nubae> well, probably an extension to what u are doing
<Lns> yeah, we're still kind of discussing how much functionality we're going to keep in the main codebase as opposed to plugins
<nubae> main.py hasnt been touched for 2 months
<Lns> heh
<nubae> so there ya go...
 * Lns shrugs :) We're getting a lot done w/TCM, VNC seems to be working, we've cleaned up all of the codebase, it's really coming along, it's exciting :)
<Lns> yanqui is working on UI changes right now to make things a lot easier to get to
<Lns> all this with no chroot changes ;)
<Lns> (yet) heh
<nubae> nice one... I've been grinding my teeth on python with an educational app (basically upload an image, point and click on the  image to place labels, and then name those labels, then the student gets a version of the imagen with the labels blanked out which he has to fill in)
<nubae> using telepathy, students then enter a kind of name the object quiz
<Lns> sounds useful!
<nubae> each quiz is stored in xml (even image in base64)
<nubae> so files can be transfered via xmpp easily or stored on websites, etc
<dgroos> TCM-NG coming along, cool!  Are you including FreeNX code?  NX is amazing VNC.
<nubae> I calculate another 2 weeks, and it'll be finished
<Lns> dgroos: no, nx isn't really going to be the way to go for the short term at least..we can turn on vnc (vino) directly via gconf as it is so it's much easier to implement
<nubae> its kind of like a very simple lesson plan creator, which teacher can create in matter of minutes
<nubae> for any subject matter
<alkisg> Lns: will need some patching about the vino port in an LTSP environment, though
<dgroos> sure.
<Lns> nubae: good luck on that, keep us posted =)
<nubae> think of school when u had to name the parts of a flower for example, by filling in the parts in an image
<Lns> alkisg: ?
<alkisg> Lns, you can't have 10 users using port 5900 in the same server
<alkisg> So they'd have to use 5900, 5901, 5902 etc
<nubae> that sounds like an easy enough patch though
<alkisg> Have a look at ica-launcher and italc-launcher, stgraber even uses avahi to publish the service on the network
 * alkisg thinks all this dev power would be better invested in italc :-/
<nubae> well, isnt italc sort of a finished product?
<nubae> lns project is more ltsp specific I take it
<alkisg> No, italc needs some improvement. E.g. there's only one dev, and he's looking to use a vnclib instead of directly using vnc for speed reasons, but he doesn't have too much free time...
<alkisg> Also, it operates in mixed os environments, which is nice
<alkisg> Here are some of the things he's done/will be doing for italc 2.0: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=200812281333.43713.tobias.doerffel@gmail.com&forum_name=italc-devel
<Lns> nubae: tcm is definitely a bit more thin-client geared
<Lns> but it would work with any system using local X (multi-user systems)
<Lns> user sessions on same box that is
<sbalneav> Evening all
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<Lns> hey scottie =)
<dgroos> gotta go--see you around (so to say)
<Lns> alkisg: tcm-ng dynamically allocates ports for vnc
<alkisg> Lns: nice!
<Lns> basically when you request to view/control a user session it turns on vino via gconf then connects..so that way it doesn't even waste resources using vnc while you're not connecting to it :)
<Lns> and is a bit more "secure"
<alkisg> Will that work with localapps?
<alkisg> ...because I think gconf and localapps don't mix well :-/
#edubuntu 2009-08-25
<sbalneav> Nope.
<Lns> that'll be another can 'o worms I guess ;)
<alkisg> Heh. No big harm there. Anyway, late here, g'night all...
<Lns> But it basically just depends on the app itself right?
<Lns> night alkisg !
<sbalneav> Night alkisg
<Lns> I mean, if you're running FF as a localapp only, it's not like you're not going to be able to connect via vnc..?
<Lns> s/vnc/vino
<Lns> sbalneav: about to get yer hardy version of sabayon
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> We'll see if it works.
<sbalneav> I'm betting no.
<Lns> sbalneav: sabayon: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0) but 2.12.9-3ubuntu5 is to be installed || Depends: python (>= 2.6) but 2.5.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<Lns> bork bork bork
<sbalneav> yeah.  I'm gonna have to re-build the package from scratch, somehow.
<sbalneav> not sure how this is going to work.
<Lns> sbalneav: no worries, i'll be here once it's ready to test =)
<sbalneav> Well, BUILDING the package is no problem.
<sbalneav> getting it published to my ppa may be.
<sbalneav> Working on it now.
<sbalneav> Anyone know packaging?
<sbalneav> Here's the situation.
<sbalneav> On hardy, In order to get sabayon working, I need to:
<sbalneav> from the base upstream tarball, I need to patch configure.ac, and then rerun autoconf before running configure.
<sbalneav> how do I go about doing that?
<dgroos1> Hi all--
<dgroos1> I'm trying to completely remove all traces of iTALC from my computer before I reinstall it.
<dgroos1> I "apt-get purge italc" and then libitalc.
<dgroos1> then, I did "locate italc" and got a ton of files with italc in the name still.  So... I tried to remove each one (or the specific directories containing just italc stuff) with sudo rm /file/path/name.  There were some files
<dgroos1> that were shown on locate, lots of them, that when I tried to remove them, didn't seem to exist!  what's going on?
<sbalneav> locate doesn't update immediately
<dgroos1> Ah, Right!  I bet there's a command which I'll dig up...
<dgroos1> sudo updatedb
<dgroos1> sbalneav: you've got a PPA, can you answer this?  I've got basically it all removed--just the ppa.launchpad.net stuff remains.  I've got 4 files in /var/lib/apt/.  Here are the ends of the filenames (which distinguish them)...
<dgroos1> jaunty_Release and jaunty_Release.gpg and jaunty_main_binary-i386_Packages and jaunty_main_source_Sources.  Do I need all 4?
<sbalneav> yes
<dgroos1> thanks :)
<sbalneav> You should have a lot more in there
<sbalneav> keyrings  lists  mirrors  periodic etc
<dgroos1>  got a little happy w/ sudo rm did I?
<sbalneav> Yup
<dgroos1> maybe I get rid of it all, reinstall sources and keys--work?
<sbalneav> And, of course, you SAVED A BACKUP BEFORE YOU STARTED BLINDLY REMOVING THINGS YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE, right? :)
<sbalneav> I have no idea, you've probably hosed apt pretty badly.
<dgroos1> Hmmm... wish I had a wider repertoire of smiley faces...
<sbalneav> There's a ton of stuff in there.
<dgroos1> I only removed things that specifically had the name italc in them...
<sbalneav> best you can hope for is to do an apt-get update, see if it works.
<sbalneav> well, if you don't have keyrings, lists, mirrors, etc
<sbalneav> in that dir
<sbalneav> then you removed more than you thought you did.
<dgroos1> OK-- got it, make lots of backups... tonite...
<sbalneav> what does apt-get update do?
<dgroos1> those 4 files (and their duplicates in the /opt/ltsp/i386/ were the only things left in my updated 'locate' list.
<dgroos1> seems to work--got 99% and is [waiting for headers]
<dgroos1> looks like you got your sabayon update in your PPA :)
<dgroos1> It worked :)
<dgroos1> hmmm... at the 9:58 comment I made, should have said "there are only 4 things left in my locate database that have the word italc in them and they are located in /var/lib/apt/" not, "I've only got 4 files left in /var/lib/apt/"  So sorry for the confusion!  And thanks for reminding me about back ups, I need to do nightly!!!
<sbalneav> I'm a sysadmin by trade.  Any system mods I do start out with 1) a backup 2) another backup 3) Yet another backup
<dgroos> iTALC... sweet success!  After weeks of effort, it works!
<dgroos> The trick was the removing of EVERY trace of iTALC from my system before a fresh reinstall.
<dgroos> and now to a backup :)
<alkisg> Good morning
<jamil> afternoon
<highvoltage> good {morning,afternoon} alkisg and jamil :)
<ace_suares> hi
<highvoltage> hi ace_suares and alkisg!
<highvoltage> ace_suares: we missed you
<alkisg> Hi highvoltage, hi all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Morning ace!
<sbalneav> Good to see you back.
<dgroos> Good morning all
<mhall119|work> hey ace_suares
<dgroos> and to see you back, ace_suares :)
<dgroos> too
<sbalneav> highvoltage: around?
<BenCrisford> Hello fellas
<sbalneav> Hello Ben
<sbalneav> Long Time No See
<Suhadi> Hi, Is there something like a tutorial or installtion guide for setup a thien client Server for a classroom with edubuntu 9.04?
<Lns> Suhadi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall might help
<Lns> For thin clients under *buntu, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ is the wiki with the most information regarding how to "do things"
<Suhadi> ah okay thanks so far
<Lns> np
<Suhadi> I just tried to set up a server on a VM
<Suhadi> and wanted to install all the edubuntu stuff
<Lns> Suhadi: well Edubuntu != LTSP
<Lns> (not anymore)
<Suhadi> yeah i installed LTSP from alternate CD and than Edubuntu
<Lns> ah
<Suhadi> but it didnt install all the teacher stuff like student-control-Ã¼anel
<Suhadi> is that normal?
<Suhadi> panel not Ã¼anel ^^
<Lns> Suhadi: student control panel is VERY old and unstable
<Lns> I am actually working with others to bring it to a stable state..should be happening soon. BTW it's now called "Thin Client Manager".. check out http://logicalnetworking.net/wiki/doku.php#projectthin_client_manager_tcm
<Suhadi> yeah i installed it, but y doesnt edubuntu istalled this stuff? So there is no student controlling
<Suhadi> So this is only a desktop version of edubuntu or am i wrong?
<Lns> Suhadi: it wouldn't be of much use because the code is broken
<Suhadi> yeah or an alternative...
<Lns> there is no alternative yet :)
<Suhadi> this is not good :D
<Lns> but there are 2 major programs being worked on that will be ready soon (within a month or two maybe)
<Lns> Suhadi: well you can try iTalc
<Lns> I heard some people have gotten that working
<Lns> check the wiki link i sent you
<Suhadi> okay i will do because this edubuntu stuff is very interesting
<Lns> Suhadi: cool, glad to see you like it =) come back here, there's usually someone here or in #ltsp if you need thin client help to help you out
<Suhadi> Yeah, it makes me a sad panda, when i see that only few school (and companies) use OS like edubuntu
<highvoltage> sbalneav: am now
<sbalneav> Cool.
<sbalneav> OK
<sbalneav> So, sabayon
<sbalneav> I'm going to try tonight to get a karmic build in my ppa
<sbalneav> Once it's there, what needs to happen to get it pushed up to main for feature freeze on Thursday?
<ogra> just give it to me
<ogra> but its important that you use the existing karmic package as a base
<ogra> and just replace the tarball, if there are ubuntu specific changes, you need to merge them properly
<ogra> so read the changelog
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> sbalneav, looking at the last two uploads that should be straightforward, there were no ubuntu changes
<ogra> both packages had -0ubuntu1 versions
<sbalneav> ok, so should I produce a 2.27.91-0ubuntu2~ppa2 based off the 2.27.0-0ubuntu1 in karmic?
<Lns> ogra to the rescue =)
<highvoltage> ogra: would you be able to give me a testimonial for my MOTU application? stgraber said I should go for it.
<ogra> sbalneav, right, just add your new tarball, if you do additional changes or patches, mention them
<sbalneav> k
<Lns> stgraber: ping? Do you have any update for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/+bug/277069 re: hardy sru?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277069 in libxcb "Slow performance with remote X applications (java, firefox/xul, etc.)" [Undecided,In progress]
<ace_suares> Hi
<ace_suares> I *was* reading the irclogs fellows :-) not much happened except for the last week or so, with sabayon and italc stuff.
<ace_suares> I am just dormant till friday
<ace_suares> I want that meeting so badly :-)0
<stgraber> Lns: not really, seems to be stuck somewhere in the SRU process
<Lns> stgraber: :(
<sbalneav> ace_suares: Well, glad to see you're back.  We were thinking you'd floated away :)
<sbalneav> ace_suares: Best is to stay idle in the channel.  What irc client do you use?
<Lns> ace_suares: ! =)
<nubae_> stgraber! been looking for u for a while now... I've installed ltsp-cluster under karmic
<nubae_> but there was a problem with the loadbalancer
<nubae_> cant remember what it was off the top of my head now though, it was a while ago, I wrote u an email or a couple about it
<stgraber> I know the loadbalancer is broken
<stgraber> my goal before FF is to have everything in Ubuntu, I'll fix that soon
<ace_suares> hi all, sbalneav yourself was far away for a long while... but happy to see you back
<ace_suares> thx for all the welcoming words :-)
<ace_suares> Lns hi
<sbalneav> I was away for a few months.  But people were notified :)
<ace_suares> Can't stay on IRC all the time, need to reboot the computer every time :-)
<sbalneav> Which IRC client do you uuse?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: whatever thing comes with ubuntu. It's ugly and brown :-)
<sbalneav> Use irssi
<sbalneav> Then you can run it under screen.
<sbalneav> it's text-based, but that's what makes it useful.
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> sbalneav: lol
<sbalneav> so you can "screen irssi", do your chatting
<sbalneav> control-a d to detach
<Lns> yanqui uses erc (emacs irc client)
<sbalneav> then if you're somewhere else, but can ssh into your main box, you can just screen -r to resume.
<ace_suares> screen? isn't that that thing that keeps all your sessions open and then someone hijakcs it and they are in all your servers?
<Lns> I like Xchat just because i'm not always on the shell...damn clients have me doing all sorts of normal person stuff all the time
<Lns> ace_suares: screen is a beautiful thing :)
<sbalneav> yeah, any text based irc client will work well for that.
<sbalneav> ace_suares: wha?
<ace_suares> just kiddin around
<ace_suares> got stuff to do
<sbalneav> Don't we all.
<ace_suares> will be at the meeting, I calculated that it is 13:00 GMT-4 (EST). I hope that is correct
<ace_suares> I need input on the wiki to do more work, and i have been idling all that time, well, doning other stuff.
<ace_suares> Now off to the beach> Did anyone hear about curacao treasure hunt?
<ace_suares> Someone just won 500.000 USD last night I saw her win it was very interesting.
<ace_suares> bye for now!
<Lns> wow
 * Lns would like $500k plsthxkbye
<Ahmuck-Sr> hey ho, how is edubuntu today?
<sbalneav> Still kicking
#edubuntu 2009-08-26
<chungur> Hi
<alkisg> Hello
<chungur> I would like to chat with some representative from Edubuntu in private
<sbalneav> chungur: What, an official representitive? :)  Don't think we have one.  It's probably best to say whatever you need to say in here.
<Nubae> he messaged me in private by name, but nothing further :-)
<highvoltage> we're talking in pvt at the moment
<sbalneav> Oooh, very cloak and dagger, be sure to let us know what transpires, Mr. "Official Representitve" :)
<sbalneav> bbiab
<ace_suares> highvoltage: ping
<sbalneav> Morning ace
<ace_suares> hi sbalneav, how's the coding coming along?
<sbalneav> Well, my ppa failed me, but stgraber took my work and submitted it for me.
<sbalneav>  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-August/007310.html
<sbalneav> so it's at least made it into karmic
<ace_suares> very good!
<sbalneav> Now I just need to get something going for the handbook
<ace_suares> oh yeah that would be swell.
<ace_suares> How can I help ?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: lets just discuss it at the meeting friday okay...
<sbalneav> How much do you know about docbook?
<sbalneav> If nothing else, having standardized pages on the wiki that the handbook can point to would be fine.
<ace_suares> i know noting about docbook but I once knew nothing about PHP, Linux, RoR, OpenLdap, postfix, qmail, qmail-ldap, djbdns, apache, nginx, mailman ... so I can learn.
<ace_suares> If you have 5 minutes of FULL attention, I would like to ask you a few questions, if not, another time.
<nubae_> u dont really need to know anything about docbook
<nubae_> its more about respecting the xml tags
<ace_suares> hi nubae_
<nubae_> so edit in an editor that doesnt try to import docbook
<nubae_> I learnt that lesson the hard way, and sbalneav spent a good week correcting my mistakes
<nubae_> hi ace_suares :-)
<nubae_> I tried to open the docbook format in open office, which is supposed to understand it, but doesnt of course
<ace_suares> On the wiki there are lot of handbook pages. like this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook
<ace_suares> and this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline
<ace_suares> it all seems like a mess.
<nubae_> it is
<sbalneav> ace_suares: I'm all ears
<nubae_> basically take the edubuntu cookbook
<nubae_> thats the only one worth anything
<nubae_> and strip out the ltsp stuff
<ace_suares> For me it would be godd to scrap all that sh*t at some point and start with something fresh that will actulaly *have* a structure.
<nubae_> yeah
<nubae_> btw... have u guys seen linux-for-education.org?
<sbalneav> nubae_: It wasn't that big a deal.  It got fixed
<ace_suares> So what I would need is an inventarisations of handbook/cookbook pages and then decide which can go, be redirected, or should be moved to a new site.
<nubae_> its a moodle site that we created, and is partly sponsored by opensuse
<nubae_> but it would be cool if all distros were to help out with it
<ace_suares> oh yeah io saw that it's pretty cool but a bit empty
<nubae_> right
<nubae_> can u help fill it :-)
<ace_suares> haha i am not IN education really
<nubae_> it would be nice to be joint edubuntu/opensuse-edu project to start with
<ace_suares> I ma just tryin gto get schools to use Free Software.
<nubae_> well edubuntu is education
<nubae_> right...
<sbalneav> ace_suares: What's your questions?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: Is there a *valid* version of the handbook on the wiki now?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: and where is it if it's there?
<sbalneav> I know of no version of the handbook on the wiki.  The handbook was always a docbook document.
<ace_suares> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook what about this ?
<ace_suares> or this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline
<ace_suares> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Background or this
<sbalneav> The first one just outlines contributing
<sbalneav> the cookbooks were older.
<ace_suares> yeah we can keep that and update it.
<sbalneav> the link from the last real work is the link on the first page:
<ace_suares> so the cookbook has no value anymore?
<sbalneav> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<nubae_> thats the one
<ace_suares> yeah that is on doc.ubuntu..com and I am not touching that
<nubae_> I took that as the base for the ltsp handbook
<sbalneav> which is the HTML transliteration of the work I did organizing for edgy.
<sbalneav> The .debs of which are in my ppa
<ace_suares> can we say that all 'handbook' and 'cookbook' stuff on the wiki is not valid anymore (except the general 'how to contribute' and such pages) ?
<sbalneav> nubae_: right, because at one time the only valid LTSP documentation was what I threw together for edgy.
<nubae_> yep
<sbalneav> with your work, we got that separated out.
<sbalneav> ace_suares: I'd say so, yes.
<ace_suares> Becaue if that is so, I will put them all in special category and clean it up (without loosing info before the meetin has decided on the approach).
<nubae_> so I stripped out all the ltsp stuff, but kinda neglected the edubuntu specific stuff
<nubae_> it just got dumped
<sbalneav> right.  So what we can do is go back to my package, strip out the LTSP stuff, and just keep the edu and installing stuff
<nubae_> looking back, should have done both :-)
<nubae_> beauty of hindsight
<nubae_> yeah
<ace_suares> pretty cool. i'll clean up the wiki then before the meeting regarding handbook and cookbook, so we can then discuss soon how to approach the new handbook.
<sbalneav> We've got thr ltsp manual which we can package, and we can just cross link between the two.
<ace_suares> Thos were my questions!
<sbalneav> what would be COOL is, if ace gets the wiki sorted, then we can refer to SPECIFIC information in the wiki , which keeps the handbook, which is more static, up to date.
<ace_suares> +1
<ace_suares> gotta eat now I'll catch up later.
<sbalneav> ok
<alkisg1> sbalneav: congrats for the sabayon@karmic thing :) You rocks :D
<nubae_> alkisg1, did u know u can use kiwi to make non opensuse images too?
<nubae_> u can make exact fatcopies of debian/ubuntu/fedora
<alkisg> nubae_: erm... gimme an example
<nubae_> all running off same machine
<nubae_> managed with smart
<alkisg> But still, I won't be able to directly maintain the image, will I?
<nubae_> might be worth looking at... opensuse folks might do a fedora port just to show proof
<nubae_> yeah through smart
<nubae_> or u mean in real time?
<nubae_> in real time no... but directly sure
<alkisg> I mean with the usual tools for administration
<nubae_> smart package manager
<alkisg> E.g. can I use sabayon to lock things down in the image?
<nubae_> its like synaptic
<alkisg> Can I use gconf-editor to modify things inside the image?
<nubae_> sure, y wouldnt u be able to install whateber u want
<alkisg> It's not only about installing packages...
<alkisg> No, I mean, how would I use gconf-editor to modify /path/to/image/etc/gconfd/mandatory settings ?
<nubae_> on #ltsp, ask cyberorg more about kiwi... he knows much more than I
<alkisg> I've been trying my approach for fat clients,
<alkisg> and I'm now able to boot any number of clients from 1 desktop pc with just dnsmasq + 2 init scripts in it
<alkisg> I'm going to package it soon and ask for opinions
<nubae_> any number of clients? how many u tried with?
<alkisg> 3 :)
<alkisg> But it's just nfs, it's been used a lot, I don't think there will be a problem with it
<alkisg> nfs support is hardwired into the initscripts, maybe more that any other remote filesystem
<alkisg> So I can maintain a single desktop PC, and boot all the classroom pcs from its hard disk. The easiest way to maintain a lab I've ever seen.
<nubae_> hmmm nfs was not made to multitask large amounts of data like that though
<nubae_> Id need to see it working on at least 20 concurrently to be convinced
<alkisg> It's just hard disk data, much, much lower than screen data
<alkisg> nubae_: do you have access to such a lab, to try it out, when I package it? Only dnsmasq + 2 initscripts will be installed...
<alkisg> Unfortunately, my labs are really low-end
<highvoltage> ace_suares: pong
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ooh, glad it made it into karmic
<nubae_>  sorry just locked myself out of my house but was lucky enough to use the credit card trick to open the door
<nubae_> alkisg, yeah I have a special test lab with multiple computer types
<nubae_> from 2002-2009
<nubae_> its our test centre at guadalinex
<alkisg> Perfect.
<alkisg> 100mbps?
<nubae_> and gigabit
<nubae_> we can set it how we like
<nubae_> but we do use hardware based virtualisation too, dont know how that will affect
<alkisg> Well it will clone one "example" pc, whichever you want
<alkisg> So if you install it in a PC with vbox installed, all clients will have vbox installed
<alkisg> I tried it, it worked fine
<nubae_> anyway, we are looking for a solution like that so... can even do it during work hours
<nubae_> well this is hardware based kvm... guess its irrelevant
<alkisg> Are you OK with dnsmasq as a dependency, or do you want me to allow tftp/dhcp3-server? But in this case you'll have to do a few things manually..
<nubae_> so yeah send me the script and ill test it tomorrow
<nubae_> I can test both ways
<alkisg> No it's not ready yet for non-manual testing. Let me package it correctly first, with autodetection, account (=pc) creation etc
<nubae_> just make sure u give me relatively specific instructions
<alkisg> It'll take me a few days to finish it
<nubae_> ok... so need to just follow your instructions then u mean?
<nubae_> or u want me to wait for your scripts?
<alkisg> When I finish it, I hope that all you have to do is install it. No instructions unless you hit a bug or something.
<alkisg> Wait :)
<alkisg> I'll send you a mail when I have it ready
<nubae_> ok :-/
<nubae_> :-(
<alkisg> You _can_ try it now, but you'll need to do a lot of things manually
 * nubae_ is anxious to test this after so much talking about it :p
<alkisg> So you'll just get frustrated :-/
<nubae_> sure, thats ok... I need to do something at work
<nubae_> and my pyclic app is pretty much done
<alkisg> OK ping me tomorrow morning, at least gimme the evening to wrap it up
<nubae_> python rocks so much... I really wonder how I lived without it now
<nubae_> ok
<nubae_> I get in to work at 8... so I'll ping u then :p
<nubae_> hey, if it works out, u'll have your stuff running in thousands of Spanish schools
<nubae_> ;-)
<alkisg> Heh. No, it'll need *a lot* of debugging before going to production
<nubae_> yeah I know :-)
<nubae_> I'm just getting you psyched....
<alkisg> The major pain is finding which dirs need to be writable...
<Nubae> alkisg, did I tell u I am a opensuse member now :p ?
<alkisg> Nope! Is that the equivelant of an ubuntu member?
<Nubae> yep
<alkisg> Nubae ftw! :)
<Nubae> well even better... get much more 'power'
<alkisg> ...and in the Friday you'll be an edubuntu member as well... /me wonders if he has to try to become a member some day :)
<Nubae> funny, so I'll have @opensuse.org email, @ubuntu.org email
<alkisg> I wonder if they have good spam filters
<Nubae> yeah y not, I thought u already were
<Nubae> hehe
<alkisg> Nah... I help here at the irc, and do a lot of stuff for the greek community, but I haven't contributed much upstream or in wikies yet
<Nubae> well u've done enough... Lns is a member
<Nubae> and u contributed about as much or more than him
<alkisg> Lns did a lot of work in the wiki, though
<Nubae> specially with your apps
<Nubae> yeah he did
<Nubae> hehe, I guess I am a guadalinex member too, and sugar member
<alkisg> ...well I'm ok with myself, I think I've done enough this year that I am windows-free :) Next year I'll do better :)
<Nubae> have emails for all of them... bit ridiculous really
<alkisg> Yeah too many emails are more trouble than helpful
<Nubae> spam magnet
<Nubae> one thing u can help with is linux-for-education.org, its a moodle install that is meant to be for all the distros working together
<Nubae> u could put a howto for your project there
<Nubae> I'm just writing an LTSP on opensuse one right now
<alkisg> Can that be used in multilingual projects?
<Nubae> yes, thats the idea
<Nubae> I'm restructuring so toplevel is languages
<Nubae> even have some Taiwanese guy wanting to collaborate
<Nubae> anyway, I'll add Greek too
<alkisg> We were looking on where to put some kturtle lessons... we put it at the ubuntu-gr loco site, but an edu-based site would be better
<Nubae> I guess it makes sense to have the top level in the actual language itself
<Nubae> so Deutsch and not German
<Nubae> what would Greek be?
<Nubae> :)
<alkisg> Ooouch :) ÎÎ»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬
<Nubae> ok... no problem
<Nubae> I plan to bring it up on Friday, but would be good if there is already some stuff up there so can say, edubuntu and opensuse-edu folks are ALREADY collaborating to bring together the largest source of open learning materails  for linux :-)
<alkisg> Umm I'll try to tell teachers here to use it, but I don't think they'll manage to get anything up till Friday...
<Nubae> when u create a user, let me know so I can give u admin priveledges to be able to upload courses, create subsections, etc
<highvoltage> sbalneav: [ubuntu/karmic] sabayon 2.27.91-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
<Nubae> hehe, right, but just one example would be good
<Nubae> a skeleton they can follow
<alkisg> Nubae: ok - let's leave this for the next week, to push "twins" forward a little...
<Nubae> yup
<highvoltage> sbalneav: \o/
<Nubae> alkisg, take a look at this: http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/KIWI/Cookbook
<Nubae> gonna turn that into a moodle course too
<alkisg> Nubae: nice! ...and looks useful, too! :P
<Nubae> well it is... have a read... u might even be able to combine it with what u are doing
<Nubae> as in the case u wanted images for different oses running off the same machine
<Nubae> I dunno... just an idea.. though I'm totally guessing since I dont even know what your stuff does exactly yet :-)
<alkisg> No the main idea is *not* to have any images
<alkisg> E.g. if you want 3 different OSes, you keep them in 3 different PCs
<alkisg> Goal: lab administration == desktop PC administration
<alkisg> OK, back to packaging...
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I see on launchapad you've had some uploads to gutsy before as well
<Nubae> alkisg, can u paste me Courses in greek, or greek courses, in greek
<alkisg> Nubae: ÎÎ±Î¸Î®Î¼Î±ÏÎ± ÏÏÎ± ÎÎ»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Yeah.  Most of my work is upstream
<Nubae> alkisg, ok its there toplevel
<Nubae> u'll have to edit the description a bit...right now its just a c opy of the category
<alkisg> Wow.. that was fast :)
<Nubae> moodle rocks to edit
<Nubae> have u got a user there?
<alkisg> Nubae: so anyone is able to create an account and upload content?
<Nubae> well, an admin has to enable them to be a course creator
<alkisg> Good
<Nubae> but our policy is quite relaxed, no massive background checks
<Nubae> :-)
<Nubae> i left it neglected a bit for the last months...
<alkisg> And opensuse-edu funds the hosting?
<Nubae> gonna give another go at growing it... but really, community help is best for that
<Nubae> yep
<Nubae> novell pays for it!
<alkisg> So I guess it'll be there for at least a few years... sounds good.
<Nubae> yes it will and its gotten very good reviews so far, though needs to grow significantly
<alkisg> Is the server kinda slow? I can't get the signup page to load completely
<alkisg> Ah ok it was chrome's fault
<Nubae> hmm, its usually very fast
<Nubae> heh, I think there is even a howto install chrome course there
<alkisg> A "how to make chrome not-suck" would be more useful, though :)
<Nubae> hehe yeah
<Nubae> so, the way I have it subcategorised in English is, subjects under Courses in English
<Nubae> and inside ICT, I have Fedora based, Suse based, Ubuntu based, etc
<Nubae> try and copy the structure in greek where relevant
<Nubae> when u are a user let me know so I can give u the priveledges
<alkisg> I'm waiting for the account creation mail
<Nubae> oh, can confirm u atuomatically, if the mail doesnt come let me know... cause could be a problem there
<Nubae> ok, confirmed u
<Nubae> u can login now
<Nubae> and u are now an admin
<alkisg> Danke! :)
<Nubae> you may need to log out to get privs....
<Nubae> when u login, ull see on the right create courses/categories
<Nubae> go wild there...
<alkisg> I'm gonna send an email in the greek teachers list, and if people are interested, I'll try to organize it in the next weeks
<Nubae> excellent
<alkisg> But if they aren't, I'll focus on development :-/
<Nubae> :-( Well the should be interested in having a common place to keep all lesson plans
<Nubae> as far as I know... this is the best option at the moment
<sbalneav> Has anyone looked at the bug lists lately?  I'm going to spend some time before karmic on general  bugfixes.  Now that sabayon's at least in a useable state, I was wondering if anyone else had any showstoppers they'd like looked at?
<alkisg> sbalneav: the ldm-hanging-at-logout bug - but it seems to be fixed with the "close" instead of "read" patch
<sbalneav> alkisg: yeah, I added a thread which consumes any output generated during the session, and stgraber added the close.
<sbalneav> I was thinking some of the more neglected areas of edubuntu
<alkisg> Nice, that one was a little critical
<sbalneav> like, say, the educational apps :)
<Nubae> well... one thing we absolutely need to do is create the extras meta package
<Nubae> the one with uni and multiverse apps in it
<Nubae> to expand the edu offerings
<Nubae> we've been talking about it for nearly a year now and still have nothing
<Nubae> I have a list of apps I studied to make sure they worked ok and would be intereting to the edu community... u want me to send it your way sbalneav ?
<sbalneav> Well, I've never created a meta package, but send it my way, and I can try creating one.
<sbalneav> I can stick it in my ppa, then see if we can get it sponsored
<ogra> thats not really how metapackages work
<ogra> you need toi create a seed first
<ogra> then make germinate read that seed, then you can add the seed to the existing edubuntu-meta package
<ogra> which will spit out what you need
 * ogra really thinks that should be left to LaserJock, he has experience
<alkisg> Another area would be the educational-menus == different gnome menus per (student) group
<ogra> that exists ... it lacks gui integration
<Nubae> well, he can download the source of an existing meta package
<Nubae> its not all that hard
<ogra> Nubae, ??
<Nubae> laserjock already created -primary -secondary, -tertiary, etc
<ogra> the source doesnt give you anything and if you do it worng it breaks the CD building
<ogra> you need to commit apps and the like to the seeds
<Nubae> I took a look into it a while back
<ogra> they rule what shows up in the metapackage if the update script is run
<Nubae> yeah I know... he can download those from launchpad
<ogra> right
<ogra> but changing the metapackage source wont gain you a bit
<ogra> the seeds are the essential bit
<Nubae> I'm all for laserjock doing it, but he may not be around for a while, he's probably quite busy with real life stuff
<Nubae> right, I meant looking at the seeds
<ogra> you can indeed just branch them and make your changes ass you like
<Nubae> think I used the seeds to see what apps were installed in the different distros (hardy, intrepid, jaunty)
<Nubae> to create the apps list for the website
<alkisg> Ah, on topic, is there any way to check which packages (and versions) are preinstalled in each ubuntu version?
<alkisg> E.g. how can I see if dnsmasq-base is preinstalled in hardy?
<sbalneav> dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq
<sbalneav> oh
<alkisg> I mean, if I *don't* have hardy :)
<sbalneav> ah, I see
<alkisg> With seeds or something...
<sbalneav> "Hey, person who's running hardy, could you run dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq and tell me what it says?"
<sbalneav> That's how *I*'d do it :)
<sbalneav> FYI, no it's not :)
<alkisg> -base?
<alkisg> dpkg -l 'dnsmasq*'
<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq
<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ dpkg -l 'dnsmasq*'
<sbalneav> No packages found matching dnsmasq*.
<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$
<alkisg> Hum. Well... they'd have to install it :) In Jaunty/Karmic it is.
<alkisg> Thanks!
<sbalneav> NP
 * alkisg notes that method down as an official workaround :D
<sbalneav> Any old port in a storm :)
<sbalneav> I beleive it was Alexander the Great, a greek of some small repute, who unravelled the gordion knot
<sbalneav> I think we just did that here :)
<alkisg> Well... instead of unravelling it, he just cut it in half. Hmmm, yeah, that's what we did too :)
<sbalneav> 3 months ago I finished reading another biography of Alexander.
<sbalneav> Just a story about a man and his horse (Beucephalous)
<sbalneav> I've always wanted to travel to Greece.  Fascinating place.
<alkisg> How know how it is... and I've always wanted to travel to the US, to Canada etc...
<alkisg> But I think the the friends you see wherever you go are more important than the places you visit
<sbalneav> Well, by far the best is to see the places with the friends you love :)
<sbalneav> Hence, if you ever come to Canada, you're welcome to stay at Casa de Balneaves :)
<sbalneav> But winnipeg's pretty boring.  Known mainly for being flat :)
<sbalneav> We have a joke here in the prairies.  "It's so flat here you can watch your dog run away for 3 days"
<alkisg> Heh. My town is the exact opposite
<alkisg> Mountains all around
<alkisg> We have an empty appartment below mine, so if you're into mountains, feel free to come either alone or with your family
<tazz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kdeedu/+bug/419498 this is a easy one, can someone please confirm this bug ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419498 in kdeedu "(kdeedu package) step tries to load non-existent files" [Undecided,New]
#edubuntu 2009-08-27
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ace_suares> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey ace
<ace_suares> wassup
<sbalneav> Making a blog post.
<sbalneav> It's been 9 or so months.
<sbalneav> I'm about due :)
<ace_suares> there's blogger and coders :-)
<sbalneav> http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/
<sbalneav> I code much more than I blog :)
<ace_suares> yeah obviously
<ace_suares> i wasted another 3 hrs playing a game
<ace_suares> he he
<sbalneav> Warzone?
<ace_suares> yep
<ace_suares> good post!
<ace_suares> nicely written too
<ace_suares> I just won so I am lookign around a bit and then sleep
<sbalneav> Build machine gun bunkers to defend.  Research cannon tech until you get HPV's, build one command turret, and put the factories on auto-build of python hover HPV's.  PWN all enemies.
<ace_suares> more or less accurate. I like vtols too ;-)
<ace_suares> so you wasted a couple of hrs too uh...
<ace_suares> man i had so much trouble with my machine for days
<ace_suares> very strange i chnaged refresh rate on sytem monirot and everythign was fine again
<ace_suares> unbelievable
<sbalneav> I've been playing warzone 2100 since the game came out commercially.  I've been following the Gnu implemenation since day 1
<sbalneav> I even contributed a couple of patches :)
<ace_suares> ah we need to play online one day then :-)
<sbalneav> Sure.  I'll probably get my *ss kicked since I've played the AI so long I know exactly how *little* I need to defend :)
<ace_suares> r u going to linuxcon ?
<sbalneav> Nah.  With the exception of BTS in late october, I'm conferenced out for the year.
<ace_suares> oh i am still in the stage where I spread those red/gray rockets, then mortars around, just drag some trucks and then carpet bomb the enemy
<sbalneav> FISL in Brazil, LinuxWorld in San Fran, and LTSP BTS in Maine.
<ace_suares> I dislike the travel so you will see efforts from me to host any linux/ltsp/whatever con here in curacao :-)
<ace_suares> hi dgroos
<sbalneav> hello dgroos
<ace_suares> sbalneav: damn, all the cookbook pages on the edubuntu wiki redirect to help.ubuntu.com !
<ace_suares> ok i am off can't do much on the wiki now
<ace_suares> see ya
<dgroos> Hi ace_suares (ok, kinda post facto, I know :)
<dgroos> and howdy, sbalneav.
<sbalneav> _Userper_ pointed out a "potential" bug in Sabayon, but turns out it's not a bug
<dgroos> I got iTALC fixed yesterday on the server and NX today--things are starting to look pretty...
<dgroos> what was it?
<dgroos> Now, if I can get my plone site upgraded and get CmapTools to work as localapp I'll be able to think about teaching!
<sbalneav> dgroos: He disabled the command line, then wondered why he could still launch gnome-terminal
<dgroos> sounds like a teacher ;)
<sbalneav> but disabling the command line only stops the "command->run" interface from gnome.  If you want to disable the terminal, you have to remove it from the menus.
<dgroos> (like me)
<sbalneav> How's a kid supposed to *LEARN* anything if you don't give 'em the command lin?
<dgroos> yea...
<sbalneav> When I was in grade 10, I had my first "official" computer course.
<sbalneav> I had build my own computer from a kit (a ZX-81) in grade 8.
<sbalneav> I sat right in the front row, and all during the first class, I corrected the teacher on his syntax errors.
<sbalneav> "Mr. Friesen, you need a NEXT N there. Mr. Friesen, you need a semicolon there." etc.
<dgroos> Cool, and hopefully the teacher appreciated and took advantage of this young teacher!
<sbalneav> After 2 more classes of this, he took me aside, asked me a couple of questions, and determined I knew more about BASIC programming than he did. :)
<dgroos> and then did he put you to profitable use--ie profitable for your education and others?
<sbalneav> He said "We have this new thing called a "glass tty" connected to something called "unix", maybe you'd like to play with that for the rest of the year"
<sbalneav> This was in 1984
<dgroos> cool :)
<sbalneav> And the rest, as they say, is history.
<dgroos> nice.  Ever contact Mr. F. and let him know what you do, that you program for education on your own time?
<sbalneav> Personally, if it were me, I'd let the kids have the command line.  Those who don't figure it out can keep plinking away in the gui.  Those who manage to trash their home directory, or start poking around in /usr/sbin get to check out a copy of "Programming in Python" or "Shell scripting basics", and full marks for the year :)
<sbalneav> I did, years ago.  He passed away about 10 years back.
<sbalneav> At that point, I was still working for the University of Winnipeg.
<dgroos> Down town...
<sbalneav> I've taught classes, but never to grade school kids.  Only either uni students or adults.
<dgroos> My daughters heading to U of M in 10 days :)
<dgroos> will be a 'frosh'.
<sbalneav> Which faculty?
<dgroos> Well, she want to study Eastern European history, though not sure that answers your question?
<sbalneav> Ah, so she'll probably spend a chunk of time in Fletcher Argue
<sbalneav> I spent most of my uni years hanging out in windy hall in the basement of armes. :)
<dgroos> Fletcher Argue?  sounds like someone who makes arrows would do in a disagreement ;)
<dgroos> So you went to U of M?
<sbalneav> Yup
<sbalneav> 86-90
<dgroos> She's very excited.
<sbalneav> Yeah, University's a lot of fun.
<sbalneav> Lots of new things to learn, people to meet.
<dgroos> anyway, I'm sure I'll get a chance to buy you that beer I mentioned a while ago, though not this trip next weekend. :)
<sbalneav> You live in winnipeg proper, or out of town?
<sbalneav> I'm in South St. Vital.
<sbalneav> Gimme a yell at work if you're ever passing by.  985-5249
<dgroos> Well, actually i live in Minnesota,
<sbalneav> Oh!
<dgroos> and yes, I will!
<sbalneav> U of M = University of Minnesota!
<dgroos> (Minneapolis to be specific)
<sbalneav> Thought you meant university of Manitoba :) lol
<dgroos> No, U of M = University of Manitoba!
<sbalneav> So she's coming to OUR u of M instead of yours?
<dgroos> She's going to go to school in your country, not mine :)
<sbalneav> Wow
<dgroos> She's a bit adventurous :)
<sbalneav> U of Man's got a degree program she wants that U of Min doesn't?
<alkisg> Good morning
<sbalneav> Mornig, alkisg
<dgroos> Well, it's a long story, and kind of interesting--over that beer!
<dgroos> Good evening/morning alkisg
<sbalneav> Well, gimme a yell the NEXT time you're in town.
<dgroos> For sure.
<sbalneav> I've been down a couple of times to Minneapolis for a Linux and Education conference that was held there a couple of times.
<sbalneav> And, my buddy Jeremy White of Codeweavers/wine fame's down there.
<dgroos> 724-3595 give me a call :)
 * sbalneav writes down
<sbalneav> k got it.
<dgroos> I went to college with Jeremy though I only knew him through his fame as being pretty good at (read amazing) at math.
<sbalneav> He's a great guy.  And the work he's done with wine's fantastic
<sbalneav> I buy a new copy of wine every year just to "kick in" :)
<dgroos> cool.
 * sbalneav yawns
<sbalneav> Well, that's enough looking at the handbook tonight.
<sbalneav> Time for me to hit the sack so I can do it all over again tomorrow :)
<dgroos> Question!
<sbalneav> Shoot
<sbalneav> oh, btw
<dgroos> If I disable some game for a level1 user, that just means that it won't be available through GNOME, but he/she can still navigate to the exe and launch it from there, right?
<sbalneav> ltspthinclient.blogspot.com
<dgroos> your blog?  I'll check it out.
<sbalneav> Yeah, I don;t update very often. Like, 3 times a year is "a lot" for me :)
<sbalneav> Hm
<sbalneav> I think that can be locked down...
<sbalneav> one sec
<dgroos> ah, the dichotomy--do or write about doing...  I face that issue as well...
<sbalneav> http://library.gnome.org/admin/deployment-guide/
<dgroos> I'll check it out tomorrow!  I too need to get back to work--plone buildout config sheet.  thanks, and I'll put the blog on the list of reading material...
<dgroos> Nice!  I look forward to reading other entries as well.  Glad to hear that you're committing to continued fun with Sabayon :)
<dgroos> have a good eve, all.
<alkisg> Hmmm I wonder what happened with that qt greeter... "...Â and got a Qt greeter fleshed out."
<sbalneav> alkisg: I know Ryan52 in #ltsp did some work with it.
<alkisg> Not upstream yet, is it?
<sbalneav> These two guys showed up, "wrote it", then we never heard from them again.
<alkisg> Heh. Yeah that's the curse of open source...
<sbalneav> There's a bzr branch of it somwhere, but it "wasnt quide done yet"
<sbalneav> If someone wants to pick it up...
 * alkisg has his hands full with a crazy fat clients implementation
<sbalneav> NOW i'm going to head to bed.
<sbalneav> Finish another couple of pages of Pynchons "The Crying of lot 49"
<sbalneav> Night
<alkisg> Good night sbalneav
<highvoltage> goodnight sbalneav
<highvoltage> good morning others who just got up :)
<ace_suares> yep, awake
<ace_suares> hi ubottu
<ace_suares> ubottu: ping?
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ping?
<ace_suares> Oh well, that's not a real problem. Ping is a tool for diagnosing network issues on an TCP/IP network.
<ace_suares> ubottu: so are you back from holiday /
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * ace_suares smiles at ubottu
<ace_suares> I like 'em dumb, and terminal...
<ace_suares> ubottu: man, cool!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about man, cool!
<ace_suares> Well you should know something about man. Really, they're your only worthy opponent'
<ace_suares> I met a brother of yours last night, he was defending his base with lancer bunkers and came at me with assault canons. But I got him cornered eventually.
<ace_suares> ubottu: brother?
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about brother?
<ace_suares> Well he says you should call him, and he'd love when you'd drop by with your wife ubotta.
<ace_suares> Hey gotta go now, some work to do.
<ace_suares> ubottu: bye!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bye!
<ace_suares> Yeah but I do really have to go.
<mhall119|work> wow, sometime reading the scroll buffer, isn't at all what you expect
<highvolt1ge> mhall119|work: heh
<highvoltage> goodnight edubuntuland!
<alkisg> g'night highvoltage
#edubuntu 2009-08-28
<ace_suares> !seen ogra
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<ace_suares> You mean: I didn't see the command.
<ace_suares> Or are you polish ?
<mhall119> are you talking to the bot again?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ace_suares> `bot?
<ace_suares> what bot?
 * ace_suares winks at Alan
<sbalneav> The info bot running in the channel
<ace_suares> cant we use the ltsp bot, that has the !seen command (ubottu has not)
<ace_suares> Hey I am forfeiting a trip to a small uninhabited island tomorrow, so the meeting better be good!
<sbalneav> Awwwwww
<sbalneav> If it isn't, you gonna get your money back? :)
<ace_suares> Just the tought of it being not, is making me reconsider :-)
<sbalneav> What would make it NOT worth it, I wonder?
<ace_suares> Low attendace, dwindling focus, multitasking...
<sbalneav> Multitasking?
<ace_suares> Yeah like playing warzone and debugging IO.string.jar and phoning your mom during the meeting
<sbalneav> As for low attendence, even if everyone shows up, it's low attendance.
<ace_suares> oh yah, i don't agree with that, work with wath you have eh.
<ace_suares> I am going to watch some tedtalks. See you tamara!
<sbalneav> If I make it.  I may be talking to my mom.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: About?
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning alkisg
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> So, what time's the meeting today?
<alkisg1> Hi sbalneav! 17:00 utc, wasn't it?
<alkisg1> !date
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about date
<sbalneav> !meeting
<ubottu> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held weekly on Wednesdays, alternating between 12:00 UTC and 20:00 UTC. Â« @schedule Â» may show when the next one will be, otherwise check the !fridge. All welcome!
<sbalneav> @schedule
<highvoltage> heh, that was some time ago
<ace_suares> man the meeting isnt even listed in the fridge
<sbalneav> ace_suares: No-ones listed it there, I guess
<ace_suares> sbalneav: logical, so locgical
<sbalneav> Occam's razor is so very, very sharp :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock usually handles a lot of the "administrivia" of Edubuntu.  Since he's in the process of moving, some of that sort of thing isn't getting done.
<ace_suares> 17:00 utc is 13:00  GMT-4, right?
<alkisg> ace_suares: give date -u in a terminal
<ace_suares> Fri Aug 28 15:14:37 UTC 2009
<ace_suares> and it's Fri Aug 28 11:15:00 AST 2009
<ace_suares> so 4 hrs difference
<ace_suares> 13+4=17
<ace_suares> I added it to the fridge as in the wiki mentioned it doesn't show up yet
<Svenstaro> Meeting in 30m?
<sbalneav> Svenstaro: yep
<Svenstaro> So meeting on?
<sbalneav> Svenstaro: yes, in #ubuntu-meeing
<sbalneav> meeting
<mercurous23> hi everyone
<mercurous23> i need some help
<alkisg> !ask | mercurous23
<ubottu> mercurous23: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<mercurous23> i have problems with the quit button, it is just closing the toolbar without showing the logoff, shutdown and restart window.
<sbalneav> This on a full desktop, or on a thin client?
<mercurous23> full desktp
<sbalneav> What happens if you hit control-alt-del?
<mercurous23> it shows the shutdown options
<mercurous23> it might be just the quit applet?
<sbalneav> Could be.  Does this happen all the time, or after a reboot it's ok?
<mercurous23> yes it happens all the time
<sbalneav> Then I'd remove the app from the panel, and try re-adding it.
<mercurous23> i already tried that
<mercurous23> didnt solve it
<sbalneav> Hm
<alkisg> Does the logout dialog from the system menu work?
<sbalneav> All your updates are up to date?
<sbalneav> Sounds like some kind of dbus monkeyshines.
<mercurous23> yes all are up to date
<mercurous23> well i could just use the ctl-alt-del command to shutdown
<sbalneav> Does alkisg's suggestion work?
<mercurous23> yes it does work
<sbalneav> Hm, so it's just the app on the panel, eh?
<alkisg> mercurous23: do you mind resetting the panels? should I give you the command?
<sbalneav> Weird.
<mercurous23> okay
<sbalneav> Yeah, that was what I was going to suggest next.
<sbalneav> A --recursive-unset
<alkisg> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
<mercurous23> thank you guys it is working now
<mercurous23> i am also having problem with firefox
<mercurous23> i could not run it with going to terminal and using the sudo command
<alkisg> Running firefox with sudo? Why?!!!
<mercurous23> it will always say that firefox is already running when i tried to do normal launch
<mercurous23> sorry i am still new with ubuntu
<sbalneav> Then you've probably got a dead one in the background somewhere
<sbalneav> ps -ef | grep firefox
<mercurous23> it will always say that firefox is already running but is not responding even if I restart the system
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok. lets do this:
<sbalneav> cd .mozilla/firefox
<sbalneav> ls
<sbalneav> should have something like wdiudv75.default
<sbalneav> some seqence of random numbers/letters.default
<mercurous23> yes
<sbalneav> cd into that
<mercurous23> i think that is the profile
<mercurous23> right?
<sbalneav> you got it
<sbalneav> ls -l .parentlock lock
<sbalneav> got a .parentlock?
<sbalneav> if so, just rm .parentlock
<mercurous23> yes
<sbalneav> then you should be able to start firefox normally
<sbalneav> ok, I have to head out.  alkisg, can you give mercurous23 any more help he needs?
<alkisg> Sure sbalneav, have a nice afternoon
<sbalneav> Never trust greeks bearing gifts, but *always* trust greeks in IRC channels :)
<sbalneav> Have fun my friend.
<alkisg> Heh :) bye bye
<mercurous23> i still got the same problem. I think i got 2 profiles on it. Do you know the command to delete the profile?
<alkisg> mercurous23: firefox -ProfileManager
<mercurous23> do you know this sqlite files are for?
<mercurous23> alkisg my firefox is now working
<mercurous23> thanks
<mercurous23> great help
<alkisg> The sqlite files are there to store your bookmarks and other stuff, don't delete them
<alkisg> You're welcome
<mercurous23> bye need to get some sleep it is 2am here =)
<nubae> aaarcgh... missed the meeting
<nubae> jeez, I slept through it
<nubae> can someone tell me what I missed
<nubae> I read from the email something about Sugar
<nubae> I'd like to be involved with that as I need to package it for guadalinex anyway, which is based on Ubuntu
<alkisg> nubae: you didn't miss much, except maybe for your membership once again :P
<alkisg> ace_suares is going to work on the wiki, and sbalneav on sabayon & docs
<nubae> well, i seee there is another meet for next week
<alkisg> Sugar was mentioned, but just barely at the end
<nubae> which is better for me as Ill have pyclic ready by then
<nubae> so can get some people psyched to test it
<alkisg> Nice.
<alkisg> nubae: I tried with nbd instead of nfs. Yeah, it was twice as fast
<alkisg> hdparm -tT /dev/nbd0 showed 10MB/sec for 100mbps network
<alkisg> That's good. But of course gigabit would be like a native disk
<alkisg> The downside is that it's not really live (the partition must not be mounted). The good side is that one can boot with that partition and administer it as usual
<alkisg> ...and of course ltsp-update-image etc isn't needed.
<nubae> right... cool
<nubae> the biggest isue with nfs isnt even speed though
<nubae> its reliability
<nubae> it will disconnect, and when it does make the systems temporarily unusable... teachers reallly dont like that
<alkisg> Sounds strange though, for such a widely-used file system...
<nubae> well, its an old system
<nubae> times have changed
<alkisg> :-/ I mostly don't like this because of /home, I don't like rsynching stuff...
<nubae> i have personally always see it have problems, and talking to the guadalinex folks that created this special local cache using rsync and reconnecting to nfs every 5 mins... guaranteed me that it has always had problems
<nubae> well... its a patch hack for sure... the solution uis not to use nfs
<nubae> anyways decision was made today here to NOT use ltsp becuase it was too reliant on the network
<alkisg> So what will you use?
<nubae> and we cant be sure our province wide networks are all cabled properlz
<nubae> the simples solution possible
<alkisg> xrdp? freenx?
<alkisg> Or just cloning?
<nubae> xmpp, and totally local machines
<nubae> yeah net based cloning, we have a customised system
<alkisg> Hm? you mean xdmcp?
<nubae> thopugh we are looking for a c coder that could implement p2p like distribution within debinstaller
<nubae> no I mean xmpp
<nubae> jabber
<alkisg> Jabber?
<nubae> yes... ud be amazed what that protocol can do
<nubae> everyone thinks its just a chat server
<nubae> but its a hell of a lot more
<nubae> and its super stable, very scalable
<nubae> and not reliant on a constant net connection
<alkisg> ...but what can it do? Can it expose a file system?
<nubae> think of it like tcp
<nubae> u set up a xmpp serve
<nubae> server
<asanchez> hi nubae, what are you doing!
<nubae> and using the xep extensions, there are hundreds
<nubae> hey hey....
<nubae> asanchez: is one of my coworkers at guadalinex
<alkisg> hi
<nubae> my boss!
<asanchez> hi all!
<nubae> ;-)
<asanchez> I'm your partner, not your boss!
<nubae> yeah yeah :-)
<nubae> paractically partner
<nubae> technically boss
<nubae> ;-)
<asanchez> :)
<nubae> alkisg was working on a fatclient realtime partition system
<nubae> or... how would u describe it alkisg
<nubae> ?
<alkisg> Hmmm I can see a lot of extensions there: http://xmpp.org/extensions/ but are they implemented somehow?
<alkisg> Yup, that describes it about right
<nubae> i told him maybe we are interested in seeing what it is
<nubae> alkisg: yeah many clients have them implemented... even things like share desktop, whiteboard
<nubae> collaboration
<asanchez> of course, any knowledge is welcome
<nubae> video, audio sophisticated chatrooms
<alkisg> It seems easy to handle, as it doesn't involve a chroot. The teacher just manages a desktop pc, and it's disk is shared with the other PCs
<nubae> sharing of files from a bot like service
<nubae> liek config files could be sent for example... imagine the italc stucture being sent for each classroom
<nubae> asanchez: alkisg works in the Greek school systenm+
<nubae> has the ear of many greek teachers
<asanchez> interesting!
<nubae> he has done some interesting hacks to italc too
<alkisg> The problem is that ltsp, and linux in general, is not very widely used in greece :(
<nubae> ?lkisg: whjat was it u did for italc again
<nubae> we use it quite  lot at guadalinex
<alkisg> But there's interest in it from the ministry and from some teachers... I hope it get used more in the future
<alkisg> nubae: just some bug fixes, I didn't do much for it
<nubae> i thought u added some feature
<nubae> and also ure work on dnsmasq
<alkisg> Nah... yeah, mostly dhcp-related stuff, for remote booting
<nubae> to stabalise network right?
<alkisg> And to make remote booting easier. E.g. here we use dual boot machines, windows + ltsp
<nubae> ah yeah, we force users to use linux or linux
<alkisg> So I did what I could to make it easier to install gpxe to the windows bootloader...
<nubae> asanchez: u know sabayon?
<alkisg> Also, we use cheap routers as dhcp servers, so I asked the dnsmasq and gpxe developers to implement a part of the pxe standard that would make it easier to boot ltsp clients without adding a second dhcp server
<asanchez> we use an older version of ItalC because we made some hard code to fit our needs, maybe we could take a look at the new versions
<asanchez> nubae,  I do
<nubae> its been quit improved now
<nubae> though i guess itn doest have much use in guadalinex
<alkisg> iTlac 2.0 will have some major improvements, to speed as well. I hope it gets out soon...
<nubae> asanchez: vagrant cascadian put me in contact with the main tech guy at linex
<nubae> i'll cc u correspondence ok?
<asanchez> ok, thanks
<nubae> alkisg: can u list some of the improvements of italc 2.0?
<nubae> btw.. asanchez = Technical director of Guadalinex-edu
<alkisg> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=200812281333.43713.tobias.doerffel@gmail.com&forum_name=italc-devel
<asanchez> audio troubleshooting classroom starts at #ubuntu-classroom, see u later
<alkisg> bye
<nubae> wow management interface for italc 2 sounds nice
 * alkisg doesn't really like vnc... I'd prefer a freenx-based solution, or even better something with multicasting for demo mode :)
<nubae> freenx wojuld rock.... guadalinex has a multicasting app, but just for vlc i believe
<nubae> an inhouse app
<nubae> think u ended up doing something similar
<alkisg> It didn't use multicasting. Just plain old gstreamer pipelines...
<nubae> thats what we did i believe... we call it virtual net cannon
<nubae> as it shoots out to the machines in question
<nubae> but allows teacher to control session
<alkisg> A program that would *multicast* (so that it would give 30+ fps) the teacher screen would be priceless...
<nubae> welll maybe tke a look at this program
<nubae> might give ideas... think its python based
<alkisg> Are the sources available?
<nubae> very popular with the teachers
<nubae> everything we do is software libre so shol
<nubae> should be
<asanchez> yeah, we could upload sources to launchpad
<alkisg> "virtual net cannon" doesn't return anything in google....
<nubae> asanchez: would be good, u never know people might improve on it
<alkisg> asanchez: that'd be nice
<nubae> or give ideas
<asanchez> yeah, maybe a new project at lauchpad could be the easiest way to do that
<asanchez> everything is in spanish: http://murgitic.blogspot.com/2007/02/crv-can-de-red-virtual.html
<nubae> bueno, I can translate it
<alkisg> sweet google translate :)
<asanchez> yes, but i think code is in spanish too
<asanchez> our coworker luis is the main coder of CRV
<alkisg> I like your education submenus... ours is flat :) http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/education-menu.png
<nubae> yes edu menus in guadalinex-edu are indeed very well thought out
<nubae> we had input from teachers I thnk
<nubae> think
<asanchez> we have recently adopted edubuntu menu system in Guadalinex
<alkisg> So how many PCs use linux in spain, approximately?
<alkisg> (in education)
<nubae> well.... think of it this way, we manage 4400 schools
<nubae> or some number close to that
<asanchez> in spain i don't know exactly
<alkisg> Woah... that's a lot of schools
<nubae> schools have between 100-600 students I think
<nubae> asanchez knows better though
<nubae> he can confirm
<asanchez> in Andalusia we have nowadays 265.000 and we are going to increment this number before end of this year with 187.100 netbooks
<nubae> yes, we are amongst the largest edu distributions in practice in the world
<nubae> end goal is every student with a netbook, verdad?
<alkisg> I hope Greece can learn something from you :(
<nubae> asanchez mentioned something very interesting todaz
<nubae> today
<alkisg> Heh german layout ?
<asanchez> before 2012, our goal is 1 computer per 2 students
<nubae> basically, everyone is looking to see what we do
<nubae> with our netbook deal
<nubae> forced guinny pigs
<nubae> guinea pigs
<asanchez> although we are going to start to give 1 netbook per children at primary school
<alkisg> Greece will also offer netbooks this September, but only for 1 class (= kids 13 y.o.)
<alkisg> But I don't know if that will continue next year...
<nubae> our system is, the gov. gives the netbooks to the students and teachers
<nubae> so they can take them home, etc
<asanchez> we have to change our model because now students are going to use netbook also at home
<nubae> but we only support linux, so if they install windows they are on their own
<nubae> this will be a big rpoblem
<nubae> the other problem is connectivity to the net from home
<nubae> like... should we alow them to connect to any place... (should there be flters hardcoded in?)
<asanchez> after 6 years of experience, here people prefer linux because they have direct support
<nubae> its all totally poltiical
<asanchez> nubae, i think this is one way to give support at home
<nubae> that is the real advantage... students when going into uni actually ask for linux
<asanchez> and at home to their parents
<nubae> trhez wont tolerate windoze
<nubae> thats super duper!
<alkisg> All that in 6 years? !!!
<asanchez> why computer at home are so bored? where is tuxracer? :D
<nubae> hey... theyve done a hell of a lot... most of the group (at least in development / tech) are some of the best in their fields
<nubae> they really know their suff
<asanchez> yeah, we are so lucky with our team and with nubae now!
<nubae> so we work within the absurd demands of the ministry (asanches can give u horror stories for hours)
<nubae> hehe
<nubae> aww.....
<asanchez> hahaha
 * nubae blushes
<nubae> yeah the team rocks... being able to bounce ideas off each other like that rocks
<nubae> in all the other situations I was in, I was almost always working alone
<nubae> much harder and half the fun
<alkisg> It's really nice that you also do developement, and it would be even better if you could share it somehow...
<alkisg> I think you're going to send some fixes for the ecubuntu education menus?
<asanchez> yeah, I think we are now at good political situation to publish part of our work
<nubae> heh, I was told today that we have a fulltime canonical dev that kinda works for us, based on the money he is paid for an official support contract
<nubae> asanchez: thats a really good point
<nubae> we need to some whitepapers and start sending to journals/magazines
<nubae> get our name (guadalinex-edu) out there
<asanchez> I think our deployment system its suitable for a paper (and we need this paper to :D)
<nubae> I hav contacts with British press, but article in wired, linux format, new scientist, etc would be unbeliavably cool
 * nubae hides from the documentation work
<asanchez> our "public relations man" has a lot of contacts
<nubae> constant struggle here
<asanchez> no problem, I like doc and slides, I can do that work
 * nubae and asanchez are kinda PR men too but from a tech perspective
<nubae> me cuase somehow I got sucked into ubuntu, oopensuse, and wired membership
<nubae> btw.... totally oiff note, did u see SCO is suing novell and IBM again
<nubae> some court somewhere overturned their appeal to the ownership of unix and linux
<nubae> emm..... wired should = sugar membership
<nubae> doh
<nubae> asanchez: una cosa.,... si me invitan a conferencias (un ejemplo es una para suse en Octubre) hay forma de tomar parte, reresentando guadalinex y haceindo una presentation?
<nubae> me imagino que a la mejor podria coger esos dias, pero no se pagaria nada, verdad?
<nubae> lo mismo con un despliege /infrstructuraciÃ³n en Madgascar
<asanchez> nubae, todas las salidas por parte del proyecto tienen que ser aprobadas por la direcciÃ³n, si la direcciÃ³n la aprueba no hay problema
<nubae> vale eso lo entiendo, pero es algo que puede pasar, o es muy dificil??
<nubae> es que yo veo que asi ganamos informaciÃ³n muy importante
<nubae> y la verdad es que es ipmortante que alguien que este metido de verdad en estas comunidades vaya... es decir... no solo para el tema de marketing
<nubae> more information sourcing, intellegence gathering
<asanchez> i think it could be possible if your company is agree
<nubae> sadiel in this case?
<asanchez> yes
<nubae> ok, I would have to talk to them?
<asanchez> sorry, i have to help my brother with his final degree project at university
<nubae> ah no problem... good luck, I go to bed now anyway
<nubae> IlÃ¶l ask another day
<asanchez> yes, i think Jorge could have more information, i don't know exactly how that works in your co.
 * nubae waves and tunes out
#edubuntu 2009-08-30
<Guest94531> Hi all. Im a newbee to linux. I have ubuntu running on my desktop and wish to connect to windows vista on my work laptop using terminal services.  When I enter the ip address of my windows machine in ts and click connect TS dissappears off of the screen. I am able to ping my windows pc from the terminal? Any suggestions
<ogra> ace_suares, that wiring page is utterly wrong
<ogra> ace_suares, (the text and links are, the pics are fine)
<Doranwen> I have kind of an unusual request, and I'm not sure if this is where I should go, but someone recommended that I ask here, because maybe someone in the Edubuntu world would have an idea where I should go for help and ideas
<Doranwen> I'm starting to work on a set of elementary school curriculum--textbooks, workbooks, related materials, and suchlike--that I want to release eventually under some sort of copyleft-ish license
<Doranwen> I've noticed there is NOTHING of that sort anywhere that I can find
<Doranwen> everything free as in freedom is at least high school level if not college, and all the elementary curriculum materials out there are very much copyrighted, even the "free" stuff that people host on their sites
<Doranwen> it's not truly free, and people charge exorbitant rates for the materials, which really handicaps small schools, ones with smaller budgets, etc.
<Doranwen> so I'm hoping eventually to change some of that--in the future my fiancÃ©, who's got one year left of college and is big into networking, wants to help me start a site for collaboration of that sort
<Doranwen> but right now I'm just trying to put together some things for the very beginning of school
<Doranwen> and ran into a snag
<Doranwen> handwriting is one of the essential subjects (it is of great importance in a method of reading instruction I just learned about that's effective for all children)
<Doranwen> to teach children handwriting, there has to be examples they can copy, even trace as they begin to learn
<Doranwen> for the very beginners, they need to have just curves and lines, to practice grip
<Doranwen> and all of that requires fonts
<Doranwen> fonts that would be free to use in a project like this
<Doranwen> but I can't find ANY
<Doranwen> and someone suggested that maybe someone in this project might know who to go to to talk, collaborate, whatever on this?
<Doranwen> I feel like I'm over my head here, because this thing is just too big for me to really do on my own, and I don't know how to start letting people know about it, or asking for help to work on it
<Doranwen> but it's so needed
<HedgeMage> Doranwen: I'm coming in in the middle of the conversation, so pardon me if I missed anything important, but WRT handwriting practice, a font is only sufficient for typeset letterforms, and for printing -- NOT for a cursive style appropriate to handwriting.
<Doranwen> true, there are both forms of handwriting
 * HedgeMage == handwriting geek and daughter of an elementary school teacher.
<Doranwen> and to really teach cursive, one would have to do some rather interesting things
<Doranwen> I saw one site that advertised a program to buy that had multiple fonts, some that showed individual letter forms, and some that were designed to make letters match up as much as possible
<Doranwen> I don't know how it all worked, 'cause I didn't buy the program
<HedgeMage> It wouldn't be *that* hard... we'd need to write an app that can handle different joins correctly
<Doranwen> lol, that would definitely have to go to someone besides me
<Doranwen> I don't program
<HedgeMage> You can learn :)
<Doranwen> hehe
<Doranwen> my fiancÃ©'s not too bad at it
<Doranwen> I'm mostly best at curriculum stuff
<Doranwen> but he's really better at networking, and programming too long gives him a headache
<HedgeMage> It's interesting to me, but my free time is *very* limited right now.  I do have some ideas.  Hold on a sec, I'll brb
<Doranwen> k
<Doranwen> ah, here's the site that was advertising stuff:  http://www.schoolfonts.com/
<HedgeMage> They teach Zaner-Bloser -- that's BAD stuff.
<Doranwen> they've also got D'Nealian
<Doranwen> for parents to pick
<Doranwen> I've had virtually no handwriting instruction at ALL in the sense of how to teach it or the styles or anything at my university
<Doranwen> and can't find much online that really discusses the differences or why different styles
<HedgeMage> Zaner-Bloser is a modernized form of the Palmer method, which is based on a looped cursive that was designed to work well with movable type printing presses.  While ZB is the most common form taught in the US, it is part of the reason Americans have such terrible handwriting.  Looped cursive is *very* hard to learn, and it is slow to write and encourages RSI (repetitive stress injuries such as carpal tunnel)
<HedgeMage> It's nasty stuff
<HedgeMage> If I were to work on such a project, I'd want to teach a form of italic print and cursive italic that are designed for *writing*, not printing presses.
<Doranwen> ahh, I see
<Doranwen> right
<Doranwen> I write straight upright print, and do that faster than cursive, so I never really write cursive, lol
<Doranwen> but that explains a lot
<Doranwen> aha:  http://www.drawyourworld.com/dnealian.html
<Doranwen> there's the one I wanted to see
<Doranwen> shows all the different handwriting styles
<HedgeMage> Doranwen: Try a book called Write Now by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay -- it's for adults, not kids, but it's a quick way to learn proper italic print and cursive italic.  Paired with a good (read: good fountain) pen, I drastically improved my writing in a few weeks.
<Doranwen> I probably learned Zaner-Bloser, now that I think of it
<Doranwen> oh, Getty-Dubay
<Doranwen> have heard of that one
<Doranwen> odd, it's not on this page
<Doranwen> anyway, I HAVE created one font in my life--but I don't think I did that great a job at it
<HedgeMage> I have the tools to do it here -- a Wacom Intuos tablet and a copy of fontforge -- but I really think that until the joins can be addressed in software, that a font alone will only get us printing.
 * Doranwen nods
<Doranwen> they have to start with printing anyway
<Doranwen> I've been learning all I can about synthetic phonics
<Doranwen> which is a method of reading instruction that works for every child, because it teaches the alphabet code
<Doranwen> and they use handwriting first thing
<Doranwen> printing
 * HedgeMage nods
<Doranwen> because it cements the shape of the letter in the mind
<Doranwen> visual and kinesthetic both, in that sense
<HedgeMage> Italic print is different from stick-and-ball print (the kind you likely learned) in a few subtle ways, those changes exist primarily to increase the ease and speed of writing, and to make the transition to cursive italic easier.
 * Doranwen nods
<Doranwen> that makes sense
<Doranwen> I'm not sure if that's the best way in this case, because the children won't be reading italic letters first off
<Doranwen> and that's half the point of the method is to have them write it, see it, and remember that it stands for a certain sound
<Doranwen> so when they go to read, they recognize it instantly
<Doranwen> do you think that would work with italic letters?
<Doranwen> hmm, actually, the Getty-Dubay version is pretty similiar
<Doranwen> I spotted it on the page
<Doranwen> not that slanted
<Doranwen> so it should work
<Doranwen> it's only slightly slanted
<Doranwen> sounds like Getty-Dubay would be better, because it's the one italic version I see that does NOT have looped cursive writing
<HedgeMage> Right, 5 degree slant
<Doranwen> barring some of the Australian versions
<Doranwen> so now I just need to find a font for the printed version
<HedgeMage> Would you mind if I pm you, Doranwen ?
<Doranwen> sure
<HedgeMage> there are people there -- let me check what server it's on (I'm on 5 so it's hard to keep track)
<HedgeMage> oops, I mis-typed -- it is on Freenode, but it is ##penfiends (two ##)
<nubae> hi there
<HedgeMage> Hi, nubae
<nubae> greetings HedgeMage, quiet in here
<HedgeMage> There yep
<HedgeMage> oops, -There
#edubuntu 2010-08-30
<backo> I need help for thin clients
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<backo> ncx-linux-station #x - serial number required
<alkisg> ?
<backo> I change the mb on the pc and get this massage on thin clients
<alkisg> At what point?
<backo> how to enter serial numbers
<alkisg> You don't need serial numbers in Linux...
<alkisg> When are you seeing that message?
<backo> have two xtenda x300 pci cards
<backo> after changing the mb
<alkisg> Ah, so this isn't "LTSP" thin clients, it's some other solution? Why not try contacting the manufacturer then?
<alkisg> edubuntu is usually used with the LTSP thin client solution, www.ltsp.org
<backo> Thanks I'll try with the manufacturer
#edubuntu 2010-08-31
<Nazgul2> hi
<alkisg> Hello
<Nazgul2> i would like to know somethin aboutn edubuntu
<Nazgul2> i heared it is good for terminal server usage
<alkisg> It is, combined with LTSP
<alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<nubae> alkisg, u there?
<alkisg> Hey nubae, long time no see... what's up?
<nubae> hey, indeed... back to the world of ltsp... have to do a hardy upgrade... better said, have done most of a hardy upgrade, but getting some weird problems with the client
<nubae> after doing a ltsp-update-sshkeys and image, get no response from server
<nubae> when any user tries to login from a thin client
<alkisg> And if he tries to login from SCREEN_02=shell?
<nubae> I shall try that... but from the command prompt error I get is unknown userid
<nubae> the /home was on another disk, though don't see how that could interfere
<alkisg> SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_02=shell, ssh user@server
<alkisg> Change "user", leave "server" exactly as it is, don't use the server ip or hostname
<nubae> I'm not at the school at the moment, but I'll see if I can ssh in, thought doubt it
<nubae> ok
<nubae1> alkisg: u around?
<alkisg> Hi nubae1
<nubae1> I'm at the school now... tried sshing in from thin client
<nubae1> getting connect host server port 22: connection refused
<nubae1> I'm figuring this might be because I had squi/dansguardian/shorewall running on hardy
<nubae1> but not on lucid
<nubae1> that make sense?
<alkisg> nubae1: no idea, I've never used dansguardian or shorewall. But squid shouldn't be able to affect your system if it's not installed.
<alkisg> Are you sure that the "server" has the correct IP there?
<nubae1> weird thing is if I do /cat/resolv.conf on the thin client
<nubae1> I don't get the same details as in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<alkisg> Those come from the dhcp server
<nubae1> it gives me change this for your server instead
<nubae1> ah
<nubae1> right
<nubae1> makes sense
<nubae1> so it ignores /etc/resolv.conf?
<alkisg> It overrides it, if the dhcp send dns info
<alkisg> *or overwrites, same meaning :D
<nubae1> hmmm, ok... well, then I'm at square 1, I've installed squid, dans, shorewall again
<nubae1> and everything is fine on server
<nubae1> just no connection from thin client
<alkisg> nubae1: can you ssh to the server from other pcs?
<nubae1> nope
<nubae1> which means must be sshd_conf?
<alkisg> Check the logs to see if some program is blocking the connection
<alkisg> sshd, iptables, firewalls, you name it
<nubae1> logs show nothing
<alkisg> Can you ssh to localhost on the server?
<nubae1> permission denied
<alkisg> And still no logs?
<alkisg> (from the system > settings > logs utility)
<nubae1> nope nothing in logs... why would I get that: permission denied (public key)
<alkisg> Messed up sshd_config?
<nubae1> most likely
<alkisg> But still, a log entry should be filed
<nubae1> checking
<nubae1> nothing under messages
<nubae1> but checking other
<alkisg> Run the log utility,
<alkisg> try ssh localhost,
<alkisg> and see if any of them goes "bold"
<alkisg> That means it has new entries
<nubae1> can u paste me a virgin sshd_conf?
<nubae1> I get the nbd messages in logs, but just connect and disconnect
<nubae1> I'll copy it from a backup too, but must be my sshd_conf is messed up
<nubae1> I've got the external server set under listen address in sshd_conf on server, does that make sense
<nubae1> ?
<nubae1> I've been away too long from ltsp
<nubae1> getting internet from normal clients via nat
<nubae1> so that isnt it
<nubae1> has to be ssh then right?
<nubae1> damn, cant get ssh localhost to work on server, connection refused, but no message about keys anymore
<nubae1> and nothing in the log files
<alkisg> nubae1: /etc/ssh/sshd_config: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/Mv3QDcSS
<alkisg> Then try again ssh localhost
<nubae1> ok all working now
<nubae1> at least ssh localhost
<nubae1> ssh fixed now from thin clients too
<nubae1> but still no ability to login to XÃ§
<nubae1> still, feel it getting close :-)
<alkisg> From SCREEN_02, "ssh user@server"
<nubae1> yep
<nubae1> no problem
<alkisg> Does that work with no warnings _at all_ ?
<nubae1> yep
<alkisg> And then when you switch to vt7 and try to login with the same user, what do you get?
<nubae1> nothing in log files either
<nubae1> weird, now works
<nubae1> thanks alkisg
<alkisg> You're welcome, but do try to reboot the client and check again if it works :)
<nubae1> checking with other usernames and such
<nubae1> what should permissions be username.username?
<nubae1> or can it be username.users
<alkisg> Permissions where?
<nubae1> for /home
<nubae1> for /home/username
<alkisg> It's usually user:user, but if you have a specific reason to, you can also use user:group
<nubae1> ok, well all seems to be well now
<nubae1> just takes for ever to login
<alkisg> Try with a new user, and time the *second* time it logs in
<alkisg> It should be less than 10-20 secs...
<nubae1> sysadmin can login
<nubae1> seems normal users cannot
<nubae1> trying with a new user
<alkisg> (create it with users-admin, not with adduser...)
<nubae1> oh ok
<nubae1> yeah new users cant log in
<nubae1> failed due to unknown userid (0)
<nubae1> get that in terminal just after no response
<alkisg> Ignore that, that's pulseaudio
<alkisg> Do you get an entry in the server /var/log/auth.log for that user?
<nubae1> weird weird
<nubae1> on 192.168.0.2 works for all users
<nubae1> other ips doesnt work
<nubae1> thinnk its time for server restart
<alkisg> ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image
<alkisg> I don't think server restarting will help for that
<nubae1> well graphics on server crashed
<nubae1> so needed a restart anyway
<nubae1> ok think its all working now.... thanks... a lot
#edubuntu 2010-09-01
<timdrake> hi guys
<timdrake> need help about printing here
<HedgeMage> timdrake: Just ask your question, if someone can answer, they will.
<timdrake> ok
<timdrake> the print out is too small, printer model is lx300 im using ubuntu 9.04
<HedgeMage> what program are you printing from?
<timdrake> open office spreadsheet
<HedgeMage> Okay, one of a couple of things is likely going wrong:
<HedgeMage> The font you are using may be smaller than you think, and it looks a reasonable size because you are zoomed in on the spreadsheet in the edit window.
<timdrake> ok
<timdrake> i tried changing the font tru spreadsheet but still the print out is small
<HedgeMage> Another common possibility is that in your page style dialogue, you have set a scaling factor, or forced it to fit something to a page rather than spreading it over multiple pages
<timdrake> ok
<timdrake> scaling
<timdrake> i'll try that
<timdrake> thanks
<HedgeMage> np!
<Dmorais> Hi folks
<dgroos> Hi folks--I thought I ought to say that, since school has started, I can no longer make it to the Wed. 19:00 UTC meetings.
<dgroos> not that I always made it before but still...
<dinda> dgroos: would it help if future meetings were moved to evening hours?
<dgroos> dinda: I would appreciate the option to participate for sure; I can't commit to making it to all of them so I'd say don't just move them for me.  Thanks.
<dinda> dgroos: will add it to the agenda today, see if others have thoughts on the idea - would be easier for me in evenings too
<dgroos> Thanks dinda.  And, I understand that a property of a spherical planet is that all hours are present somewhere on our planet at any one time :-)
<alkisg> Meeting in 2 hours?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yeppity
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Meeting Time!
<vmlintu> dinda: I just realized that there was a discussion on #ubuntu-meeting about Ubuntu usage in schools - here's a map of schools using Ubuntu/LTSP in Finland: http://bit.ly/amFiOO (google maps)
<dinda> vmlintu: awesome - thanks!
<vmlintu> I doubt anyone calls it Edubuntu, though..
<dinda> vmlintu: that's ok, any school using Ubuntu is on my radar, thanks
<vmlintu> dinda: if you need more information, I have something to do with almost all listed installations..
<dinda> vmlintu: are you a consultant doing installations?
<highvoltage> vmlintu: that is *really* cool
<vmlintu> dinda: service provider actually
<dinda> vmlintu: nice work!
<vmlintu> dinda: we do only schools and provide full service so that there's no need for ubuntu knowledge at schools
<dinda> vmlintu: looks like you've got a great business success
<alkisg> vmlintu: are you paid by individual schools, by the ministry, or...?
<dinda> vmlintu: does the government help support and promote FOSS?
<vmlintu> alkisg: depends, sometimes it's cities, something individual schools
<alkisg> Good work :)
<vmlintu> alkisg: schools are run by cities, so no direct government money
<alkisg> Ah, here we have a team that tries to make ubuntu suitable for greek schools, that runs with government money...
<alkisg> ...we need to make such a map too, though :)
<vmlintu> dinda: government funds some limited time projects, but they pay the money to schools that run the projects. There are some projects that promote FOSS, though..
<vmlintu> dinda: here's something from last spring: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/mista-on-hyvat-koulu-tehty
<dinda> alkisg: your work in Greece is it funded by the schools or government?
<alkisg> government
<alkisg> There are about 50-100 schools using linux, mostly ubuntu/ltsp, and we're trying to automate/support their installations as best as we can
<alkisg> I'm sure the user base will grow over time..
<alkisg> E.g. last here about 120.000 netbooks were given to students, we managed to have them dual booted (windows/ubuntu)
<vmlintu> dinda: there's also COSS (the Finnish Centre for Open Source Solutions) that runs Educoss (http://www.coss.fi/en/educoss) that promotes FOSS for schools
<alkisg> *last year
<highvoltage> dinda: do you think we should have a canonical/edubuntu session at UDS?
<dinda> highvoltage: it won't hurt to put it out there - I've got a family committment on Oct. 26 so won't be able to get out there until the 27th, Wed
<dinda> highvoltage: and as of right now I don't know if that will just be as a community member or 'something else'
<dinda> highvoltage: I'm more than happy to keep promoting all things education as 'just a community member' and will do so no matter what happens with my day job :)
<dinda> vmlintu: that is great stuff, just the kind of stories I've been looking for
<vmlintu> dinda: here's one more: http://www.osor.eu/news/fi-over-a-hundred-schools-using-open-source
<dinda> vmlintu: as a service provider is there anything Canonical could do to help you?  anything you'd like to see them promote or offer?  like academic support options?  or is it enough to just send all Finnish language and schools in finland to your company?  :)
<highvoltage> dinda: ok, I'll make sure it's for later in the week
<highvoltage> dinda: having you there as a community member will be plenty good enough for me
<vmlintu> dinda: that's a good question
<dinda> highvoltage: aw, thanks,  it's just so nice to actually have some free time lately to work on some of this stuff
<vmlintu> dinda: I'd guess that most of the schools we work with wouldn't use ubuntu if they didn't get support in finnish. And most of the problems we deal with have nothing to do with ubuntu itself..
<dinda> vmlintu: that's good to know - so like hardware issues?
<vmlintu> dinda: network problems, help with user management, hardware issues, training, openoffice usage, firefox extensions, proprietary software, etc..
<dinda> vmlintu: so the standard technology problems for any deployment
<vmlintu> dinda: you could say so..
<dinda> vmlintu: was there any resistance from teachers?  or have most adapted well?
<vmlintu> dinda: we provide training at first for teachers and pupils so that they feel confident with the system
<dinda> vmlintu: the most successful deployments I've seen take that approach
<vmlintu> dinda: in some cases it takes more hand holding, but usually most of the issues are sorted out quickly
<dinda> vmlintu: I worked on a project for the EU called FLOSS Include that had many case studies about education deployments
<vmlintu> dinda: sometimes teachers have to give up old software which usually makes it harder
<vmlintu> FLOSS Include is something I haven't heard of before
<dinda> http://www.flossinclude.org/
<vmlintu> I'll have a look at that
#edubuntu 2010-09-02
<alkisg> Good morning
#edubuntu 2010-09-03
<jtrag> is anyone available to help me with something quick?
<jtrag> i just need the console command to install edubuntu on regular ubuntu
<jtrag> i know it's a short command line, but I can't find it again
<HedgeMage> iirc, it's "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop"
<HedgeMage> jtrag: ^^^^
<jtrag> i got it
<jtrag> I actually had to type sudo su, then apt-get install edubuntu-*
<jtrag> now it's installing everything edubuntu LOL
<jtrag> Thanks for the help :)
<HedgeMage> np!
<HedgeMage> I forgot the "sudo"...I often forget that ubuntu has the root login disabled by default.  I'm too used to distros that use it.
<jtrag> for some reason, none of the old command lines to install edubuntu work anymore
<jtrag> well, I found a bunch of sites with command lines to install it, but not one single one of them worked
<HedgeMage> I'm pretty sure it's always been that one meta-package...at least as long as I can rememer
<jtrag> so I decided to use the beginning of the filename (edubuntu-) with a wildcard *
<jtrag> hmm
<HedgeMage> lol, that could be a lot of stuff
<jtrag> I have all repositories enabled on 10.04 Kubuntu
<jtrag> and  was trying to install edubuntu from Kubuntu
<jtrag> that's probably why
<HedgeMage> not sure
<jtrag> they have a special package for Kubuntu to convert it to or install edubuntu
<jtrag> it's different than the rest
<HedgeMage> ahh
<jtrag> because edubuntu relies on some apps that don't work on KDE
<HedgeMage> I didn't know about that, I'm not a kde fan
<jtrag> Yeah me either
<jtrag> it sux on Ubuntu
<HedgeMage> (not a gnome fan, for that matter...freaking bloated WMs)
<jtrag> I run openSUSE  10.3 x86_64 with KDE because it's the best there is in my opinion
<jtrag> Ubuntu I rank #2
<jtrag> or pretty much it's a tie, except when you look at it from a power-user's point of view
<jtrag> that's where Ubuntu starts to lack in abilities/features
<jtrag> I have Compiz Fusion installed and everything and this computer is extremely fast
<jtrag> but I have a Core i7 920 D0 overclocked @ 4.01 GHz and 12GB Corsair DDR3 Tri-Channel RAM lol
<jtrag> and my graphics card is a temp one for now, but that's a GTX 260 216 Core Edition
<jtrag> not a bad  card
<jtrag> nice upgrade from my 8800 GTS 640MB I had
<HedgeMage> Ubuntu works hard to be the perfect distro for newbies.  No one can serve every demographic well.
<HedgeMage> I run Debian on my servers, and ubuntu and funtoo on my other machines
 * HedgeMage == control freak
<HedgeMage> I prefer source-based whenever possible
<jtrag> list
<jtrag> which channel on this server is the official Ubuntu one?
<jtrag> okay cool, thanks man
<jtrag> I'm actually doing this through the edubuntu website java chat LOL
<Studen> test
<Studen> hello anyone here,where can i fine described detailed of Ubuntu Thin Clinet
<Studen> find*
<Dmo> hello anybody is open to chat ?
<Nokio> Hi all any wiki page or something about edubuntu and ltsp in 10.04?
<alkisg> Nokio: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
<Nokio> thanks alkisg
<wolfravenous> Has anyone built an AMD64 machine that they are running an Edubuntu LTS on that when they installed it everything just worked (or almost) and that can handle a lab of 20 thin clients without a glitch that would like the share their hardware specs??? or if you have a link to a suggested hardware configuration??? I am going to have to build a server for lab soon and I want as few issues to deal with as possible.
 * alkisg is using i386 setups for simplicity, with -pae kernel to access more than 3 GB RAM...
<alkisg> What are the client specs? CPU, RAM, NICs?
<wolfravenous> we were donated some dell laptops that are going to be used as clients:  I honestly don't know the specs, they are in at a parents house right now, but they were running Win XP as standalone machines before they were removed from service at the company, so they should serve just fine for thin clients.
<wolfravenous> alkisg:  I am an irc newb, how do you do that action thing you just did???
<alkisg> What action?
 * alkisg this one?
<wolfravenous> yep
<alkisg> That's with "/me" in front of the line
<wolfravenous> ok thanks
 * wolfravenous bows in gratitude
<alkisg> Heh
<alkisg> Well, the ltsp docs have a paragraph about server sizing
<alkisg> Other than that, 20 clients is a small setup, if you have gigabit network from server to switch it should be ok
<wolfravenous> I want to run a 64 bit platform because I want to run a SAGE server on the machine also (sage is a computer algebra system w/ a web interface) and the development of SAGE is focused more toward 64 now than 32 bit
<alkisg> Ah, ok, good reason
<wolfravenous> I will check the ltsp docs again, for that paragraph, but I am hoping to find a hardware config someone has already built that has proven success... I am comfortable assembling the pieces... just nervous about picking them, :)
<wolfravenous> my luck i would choose the one model of SAS or SATA harddrive that the Edubuntu 10.04 distro has hic-ups with, heehe
<Nokio> Hi again, i have the dvd of edubuntu. can i install edubuntu as a raid1 ?
<wolfravenous> Nokio:  Here are the instructions for raid setup using Ubuntu, I would assume they are very similar for Edubun.... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408461
<Nokio> wolfravenous there is no edubuntu alternate cd so i guess ill install the ubuntu alternate cd
<Nokio> and then convert to edubuntu
<Nokio> went i convert tu edubuntu using apt-get install edubuntu-desktop.. when i reboot i truly have a edubuntu the same way i would have if installed directly via edubuntu cd?
<wolfravenous> that seems to be the process... but I have never tried it that way... I don't have a software raid config...
<wolfravenous> any preference on SAS vs. SATA for harddrive storage???  I keep getting conflicting arguements on the web with no specific reason that one is better than the other... but maybe for Edubuntu, there is one that is preferable
<Nokio> actualy i dont know about that i dont have any real information too.... the serveur that i use has sata in it
<Nokio> ill try that out and come back to give info if need be !
<wolfravenous> Nokio: Looks like I am going to go with SATA for my server build just to save money, because any performance gains (if they are any, conflicting info out there) won't be worth the extra cost of SAS.
<Nokio> that is what im thinking right now
<Nokio> sata is just good enough
<Nokio> of course if i read or see any real info i might consider !
<Nokio> btw im almost done with the installation of ubuntu using the alternate cd. I did a raid1 and i used LVM too during the installation its working just fine !
<Nokio> now let see when i add edubuntu if i turn the system into a real edubuntu the same way i would have if i did the installation using edubuntu cd
<wolfravenous> Nokio:  were you able to configure LTSP at the same time when you installed from the alt cd or will you have to add it after the fact, like the edubun desktop???
<Nokio> i could have done it from the alternate cd
<Nokio> but i did not
<Nokio> i will done it once im with edubuntu
<vmlintu> wolfravenous: Personally I'd say that if you have a good hardware raid controller, SAS/SATA doesn't make much difference..
<wolfravenous> Nokio:  thanks, was just curios if it were possible to setup LTSP on the initial install
<Nokio> vmlintu, do you know if installation edubuntu-desktop on ubuntu will convert my ubuntu to a real edubuntu? (by real i mean a edubuntu the same way that if i had installed it using the edubuntu dvd?)
<vmlintu> Nokio: I've never used the edubuntu install-cd, so I don't know what it installs..
<Nokio> vmlintu, ok you always used ubuntu and then installed edubuntu-desktop? So i guess i will be okay then ! lol
<wolfravenous> Nokio:  I would say you are going to be just fine using the after the fact install of the edubuntu, because earlier in edubuntu 9.something you had to install ubuntu and then install the edubun stuff after the fact if you wanted an LTSP server.  So I think it will work just fine... but please let me know if not... I plan to follow your process if you succeed
<Nokio> ahah ok perfect !
<vmlintu> Nokio: I'm actually installing individual packages instead of edubuntu-desktop
<Nokio> My server is a poweregde t110 for your information !
<Nokio> grub install just fine on both hd so thats good !
<Nokio> im doing my first boot
<Nokio> everything is just fine md0 as swap md1 as boot (ext3) and md2 as lvm
<Nokio> lvm has 2 partition so far / and /home
<Nokio> all work fine ill upgrade to edubuntu live
<wolfravenous> Nokio: Congrats on s smooth install :)
<litercola> I have set up an ltsp-server and I am having the hardest time trying to figure out how to use gconf-editor to lock down my users but not for myself.  Can someone please enlighten me?
<acerimmer> greetings
#edubuntu 2010-09-04
<wolfravenous> does Edubuntu LTSP use OpenLDAP for user authentication???
<beeboob> Hey all
#edubuntu 2011-09-01
<TheProf> Hello - I hope everyone is doing well.  I'm setting up a new edubuntu server now.  I have two network cards and I'd like to know which of them is faster/better so I can assign it to be the LTSP NIC.
<TheProf> Both are gigabit cards.  One is an on-board, the other is a PCI card.
<TheProf> Just getting the specifics now.
<TheProf> The PCI card is: Intel 82541G gigabit controller
<TheProf> The onboard is: RTL8111/8168B PCI express gigabit controller
<stgraber> use the intel one for the thin clients
<TheProf> stgraber, Thanks for your response -- is that the case even if it is a regular PCI card as opposed to the PCI express RTL?
<stgraber> TheProf: the PCI bus speed is over a gigabit so it shouldn't matter
<TheProf> stgraber, awesome.  Thanks very much!
<stgraber> np
<TheProf> stgraber, One more question please.  Right now eth0 is Internet and eth1 is LTSP.  How do I switch the NICs so that they are the other way?
<stgraber> you can change /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and reboot
<TheProf> OK I will try that now.
<TheProf> stgraber, Great the NIC swap worked  - thank you!
<TheProf> So I'm back with one more question -- got the Edubuntu 11.04 installed and configured on the server and tweaked all nicely.  Plugged it into a switch with a thin client, but the PXE boot on the thin client fails!
<TheProf> It just searches for a DHCP and never connects.  This is a stock installation of edubuntu and previously with version 10 it worked wonderfully so I'm wondering what I am missing?
<TheProf> OK I think I've narrowed it down a bit.  I had to switch the network cards and I did so as stgraber recommended earlier.  I think that the dhcpd service is still listening on the wrong NIC
<TheProf> I'm getting a syslog error when I try to run isc-dhcp-server that it is suppose to ignore requests on this interface
<TheProf> But I do not know where to change this?
#edubuntu 2011-09-02
<dgroos> I've got a question, simple I hope, about using ldap with fat clients.
<dgroos> If I make my ltsp server an ldap client to my school districts active directory server...
<dgroos> â¦when a student logs on for the first time to one of my clients (via AD authentication) will it create a home folder for this new user?
<dgroos> I'm hoping this because that way I won't have to add new students to the class room ltsp servers.  Since they will have already been added to the school district's AD servers.
<dgroos> ok
<dgroos> night.
<dgroos> Good Morning!
<shnatsel> hi everyone
<shnatsel> It's just me dreaming or Edubuntu has some kind of system that allows installing only those OS components which the user chooses in ubiquity?
<alkisg> shnatsel: you mean something different than the package manager, e.g. synaptic, software center etc?
<shnatsel> alkisg: quoting http://edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release : Edubuntu 11.04 ships with a classic Ubuntu desktop by default. Unity is available in both its 2D and 3D versions for these who want to test this new user interface as an option in the installer.
<shnatsel> alkisg: quoting http://edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release : Edubuntu 11.04 ships with a classic Ubuntu desktop by default. Unity is available in both its 2D and 3D versions for these who want to test this new user interface as an option in the installer.
<shnatsel> sorry dupe
<stgraber> shnatsel: yep, I implemented a basic package manager in the graphical installer
<alkisg> shnatsel: the desktop environment is a package, yes
<stgraber> so you can easily opt-out of some packages and choose to switch between unity and regular gnome
<stgraber> LTSP is also an installer option
<shnatsel> Awesome!
<shnatsel> Are there any docs on configuring this? Ubuntu Studio seems to need this system too.
<stgraber> it's nothing too fancy, just an installer component they'd need to ship and change the first few lines so that it shows the right package list
<stgraber> might need to split the packages into more meta packages if not already done too and make sure they are Recommends instead of Depends so removing one doesn't remove them all
<shnatsel> well, I always follow those rules in elementary, not sure about ubuntu studio guys... but they seem to have enough different metapackages for that.
<shnatsel> so, where can I get one and what exactly to change? (btw; why don't you migrate this to dconf or at least config files? changing source code doesn't make sense...)
<stgraber> well, changing the source code is usually fine as it's a derivative specifc installer component that's shipped by edubuntu-live, having a configuration file or dconf for that would just make it weird
<stgraber> as ubiquity currently doesn't have any configuration
<stgraber> and can't use dconf as it can be run in standalone mode
<stgraber> the file in question is edubuntu-packages.py in the edubuntu-live package
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/680779/ is the current content
<stgraber> if more official derivatives start using it, I'd probably just move it to ubiquity itself (as I've got commit rights there too)
<shnatsel> stgraber: so, to use it in ubuntu studio, the devs will have to customize these lines:
<shnatsel>         src_pkg = "edubuntu-meta"
<shnatsel>         meta_blacklist = ['edubuntu-server','edubuntu-desktop-kde']
<shnatsel>         package_blacklist = ['unity-2d']
<shnatsel>         relation_blacklist = ['Depends']
<shnatsel> right?
<stgraber> yep
<shnatsel> ehhh... so, what is what? o_O
<stgraber> and also the BEFORE and AFTER flags, quite possibly the translation strings too and import the po template into their package (so they get the installer translated)
<shnatsel> so, how do I add or remove packages to/from the list? What do src_pkg, meta_blacklist, package_blacklist and relation_blacklist mean?
<stgraber> it's taking src_pkg, looking at the binary packages built from it
<stgraber> ignoring these that are in meta_blacklist
<stgraber> and then looking for the Depends of each of the remaining meta packages, hiding anything that's listed in package_blacklist
<stgraber> and also hiding any package that's a Depend as removing them would remove the whole meta package
<shnatsel> stgraber: thanks a lot! I'll try to make a doc out of this convo, I'll drop you a link if I do
#edubuntu 2011-09-03
<shnatsel> stgraber: btw, I'm very glad to meet you as the Arkose developer, because I'm the buy behind Glimpse :)
<shnatsel> stgraber: also, just FYI, I've written down our yesterday's discussion in a doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JinRIl_hYWJA4L0COe9r5uAX4ZgmfqyIYmC5Tdhfn3o/edit
<boospy> hi
#edubuntu 2011-09-04
<meway> what are the benefits of this operating system compared to Ubuntu?
#edubuntu 2012-08-27
<alkisg> stgraber: I've been reading this: https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode
<alkisg> ...and I'm wondering... are there any thoughts about how will Ubuntu handle LTSP if fallback is dropped, and llvmpipe won't run good enough over the network?
<alkisg> We're starting 12.04 installations in a few days, and currently we default to fallback... and I was wondering if it would make sense to use xfce instead or mate2 or lxde etc...
<alkisg> "Several apps now require clutter and canât work in fallback mode (totem, audio/video UI in empathy, cheese, etc.)" => ouch does that mean they won't run in unity either?
#edubuntu 2012-08-28
<hammommah> greetings, i've just setup 12.04 to run thin clients for all my kidlets. Only problem is I havent got any sound :( when I go to system settings and click sound option it freezes. Alsa mixer shows 3 devices and all are unmuted. Where do i look to trouble shoot??
<bencer> stgraber: i'm uploading new versions of zentyal to the archive
<bencer> seems that micahg has some complains about the versioning we are using
<bencer> as i told him, how we work is
<bencer> zentyal packages are native
<bencer> official release is for LTS, so master during development, 2.2, 3.0 (once released) branches are for LTS
<bencer> non LTS that need special changes for specific packages versions (like redis for quantal), they get a +quantalX
<bencer> feedback is appreciated, but we need a strong reason to change :)
<bencer> right now we are super focused on bugfixing, i would prefer not to make changes in release process that make us "loose" time
<micahg> stgraber: jocarter: you were supposed to discuss the various freezes with bencer, not sure what happened, but at least one of the two uploads violated feature freeze
<bencer> ok micahg don't panic
<bencer> we can request still the exception
<micahg> bencer: as for the iptables issue, looks small enough for SRU, I've given the bug tasks,  it needs to go into quantal first, then you can follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<jocarter> micahg: I did. bencer was just under the impression that FF was this coming thursday, so I pasted him a link to the release schedule
<micahg> umm, but there was an announcement on ubuntu-devel-announce....
<bencer> micahg: i'm going to request the FFe now
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-August/000974.html
<jocarter> micahg: unfortunately, I do not have the time to poke people to ask them if they have read their emails.
<bencer> micahg: sorry about that, too much hassle with bugfixing now
<micahg> jocarter: understandable, that was more a question for bencer :)
<bencer> micahg: yup, i took for granted that we were still before the FF
<bencer> and because i'm dealing with a lot stuff i just went ahead
<bencer> some more packages made its way to the queue before you warned me
<bencer> but going to fill in a FFe against zentyal-core
<bencer> covering all the zentyal-* upload
<micahg> bencer: I meant about reading ubuntu-devel-announce e-mails :)
<bencer> micahg: i'm subscribed and i read the list
<bencer> but many thing go and leave, i'll be more careful next time
<micahg> bencer: thanks, you might want to filter that into a must read box, you can skip stuff like meeting minutes, but you'll want to make sure you get freeze notices and toolchain change info
<bencer> ok, good idea
<bencer> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zentyal-core/+bug/1042844
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042844 in zentyal-core (Ubuntu) "[FFe] New version of Zentyal packages" [Undecided,New]
<bencer> micahg: can you help us to get this triaged asap? :)
<micahg> bencer: IANA release team member
<jocarter> bencer: best is not to try and rush it, follow the docs and follow up with people. try to avoid terms like "asap", it might sound like you're trying to rush someone.
<micahg> bencer: your changelogs need to reflect changes in the Debian directory (and if that's done in the intermediate versions, you need to use -v when building the source package so they all show up in the source.changes file)
#edubuntu 2012-08-29
<Schoolboy> Hello, is anyone here for quick replies or am i better off on forums?
<highvoltage> why not take the chance :)
<highvoltage> (oh too late)
<highvoltage> today's daily build seems somewhat broken :-/
<highvoltage> http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7643-kindergarten-computer-class-and-password-security
<alkisg> Thanks, jbicha :) http://worldofgnome.org/gnomebuntu-is-set-to-arrive-in-october-18/
#edubuntu 2012-08-30
<stgraber> highvoltage: make sure any slideshow change lands before 20:30 UTC (in 4 hours)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah for now I'm just planning to get the basics right for that, but ideally I'd like to make some more changes to it over the weekend, I think it's reasonable to ask for a FFe for some additional changes. if it doesn't get granted... well then at least we'll have the version numbers and stuff right
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep, UIFe should be fine as it's going to only apply to Edubuntu anyway
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's past 20:30 UTC and I don't see any change from you in the branch...
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I've been ambushed, so I'll have to FFe it all (but will be a soon one, still technically in a meeting too)
<highvoltage> stgraber: if you are doing an update to the package, do you mind just doing a s/12.04/12.10?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I can do that
<pleia2> btw http://computereach.com/blog/almost-ready-for-ghana/
<pleia2> Linux computers are Edubuntu :)
<pleia2> and I'm planning on going with them
<stgraber> cool!
<highvoltage> I can't see the video yet but... cool!
<highvoltage> thanks for the link pleia2
#edubuntu 2012-08-31
<krumpli> Hi, I have an one year old edubuntu installation and I am unable now to update the repositories, it is always talks about "Hash Sum mismatches" and "Encountered a section with no Package: header". I am using the official repository...
<krumpli> How to proceed?
<krumpli> hi, i am using edubuntu and there is a problem with ltsp booting: I get the message pxe32: tftp open timeout. what is wrong?
#edubuntu 2012-09-02
<humph> Hello good people, cam anyone point me to where I could find a work around or a howto, to get edubuntu 12.4 recognise a couple of thin clients. They have enough RAM but HP has a Transmeta Crusoe TM5600 533 MHz processor, and the Neoware has a VIA Ezra 800MHz. They both boot fine with an old Centos LTSP but I would like to go more modern. Please any help will be appreciated. Thanks
#edubuntu 2013-08-26
<highvoltage> stgraber: hey, about weblive, is there any chance that you can respons to that Paul guy?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, can you merge my branch proposed a week ago (for edubuntu-artwork(?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: heh, I was wondering how long it would take you to ask again :)
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, LOL
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yes, I'm really a bit swamped but haven't forgotten :)
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, sorry;)
<highvoltage> np, sorry for taking so long on that
<highvoltage> but I'm super-careful touching anything with dpkg-divert in it and need to test it properly with all upgrade/install cases.
#edubuntu 2013-08-27
<dtrask> I have a question about a "phantom" lxc container showing up on my Edubuntu 12.04 server....it's introducing wonkiness into my network....and I have no real idea where it came from
<dtrask> how do I keep it from starting?  Any ideas?  I have a container called lxcbr   It has an IP address....and it's making it so any machine in the 10.0.3.x range cannot ssh or even ping the server...the lxcbr interface has an IP of 10.0.3.1   I never set anything like that up....I can't see how it got there...however...there is evidence of lxc doing something when I ran the last update on 8/12  according to dpkg.log
<dtrask> if I force lxcbr down (ifdown) I can then connect...however it restarts on reboot....I need to disable it...I can't see that it actually is doing anything
<stgraber> dtrask: lxcbr0 isn't a container, it's just a bridge created for containers
<stgraber> dtrask: it's configurable in /etc/default/lxc
<dtrask> do I need it?
<stgraber> dtrask: not unless you use arkose (which we ship by default and is the reason why lxcbr0 is there)
<stgraber> dtrask: so you can either disable it in /etc/default/lxc or remove lxc and all the packages it takes along with it
<dtrask> somehow it got the IP address 10.0.3.1....it's preventing my machines that are 10.0.3.x from being able to ping or ssh into the server...it's f**king pissing me off!
<stgraber> yeah, it uses 10.0.3.0/24 as it's default subnet
<dtrask> BTW how are you?  and where are you now?
<stgraber> and can indeed be a bit of a problem when you happen to use the same network for internet access :)
<stgraber> (the subnet is also configurable in /etc/default/lxc)
<stgraber> I'm good, thanks. Currently at home in Montreal, though only came back there last week. I was in Europe for a month before that.
<dtrask> will I break anything by doing so?  What exactly is it needed for?
<dtrask> I was unsure what happened to you...I heard Revolution went "belly up"?
<stgraber> oh yeah, but I left for Canonical way before that happened, I've been working there since April 2011
<dtrask> coolness!
<stgraber> dtrask: if you don't use lxc or arkose, you don't need lxc and if you don't know if you're using either of those, then you're not.
<dtrask> so...will I break anything by changing the subnet?  OR...is it possible or wise to turn it off?  If so what is the best method?
<dtrask> can I set LXC_AUTO=FALSE or does that break stuff?
<stgraber> changing the subnet is fine and will work even if you use those tools one day (I believe we've got code to figure out conflicts and do that automatically in later versions), turning it off will be fine too so long as you don't use lxc (which you're unlikely to do)
<dtrask> I'm running Edubuntu 12.04 btw
<stgraber> I think it's USE_LXC_BRIDGE you want to change
<stgraber> set that to false and reboot, lxcbr0 should be gone then
<dtrask> local apps doesn't use this at all does it?
<stgraber> nope
<dtrask> so setting USE_LXC_BRIDGE="false" should do it?  Do I need to set LXC_AUTO="false" as well?  Or leave that one alone?
<stgraber> nope, just set USE_LXC_BRIDGE to false, no need to touch LXC_AUTO
<dtrask> thx....you da man!
<dtrask> you going to BTS this year?
<dtrask> hope to see you there
<dtrask> I was googling lxc stuff and your name came up a lot...so I figured I'd jump on here and go to the source.
<stgraber> I sure hope to make it to BTS. It's not confirmed yet though because of other company travel...
<dtrask> BTS is FAR more important
<stgraber> highvoltage: finally got around to uploading edubuntu-server to the archive
<highvoltage> stgraber: oh cool
<highvoltage> stgraber: what does it contain?
<highvoltage> I'm flipping between going to BTS and not. it's right when I'm moving into my place and I'll have a lot to do around that time.
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's basically what we had in the branch with all pyflakes/pyflakes3/pep8 and lintian warnings fixed. I also clarified the licensing a bit and added some headers here and there.
<stgraber> highvoltage: I very much doubt it'll work at all, but the easiest way to test it is to have it in the archive
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, awesome.
<stgraber> I fixed an obvious problem in the directory setup script but I doubt that'll be enough to get it working perfectly
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep, nice that it's in there. I took thursday/friday off and towards friday I'll probably fire up some 13.10 isos and start poking around
<stgraber> but the source package itself has been in uploadable state for a while, so there was no good reason not to get that in before FF
#edubuntu 2013-08-28
<stgraber> highvoltage: I think we should take part in beta1
<highvoltage> stgraber: I agree.
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, I'll e-mail ubuntu-release then
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, any work that I can do for Edubuntu at this moment?
 * highvoltage starts edubuntu iso sync to update some artwork/version numbers and check smartboyhw's merge proposal
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, :) Thanks!
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: nothing that comes to mind, but it's likely that some things might need fixing that will pop up
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: perhaps sync/download the current images so long and poke around?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, :) sure
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: at least we know that you know how to test edubuntu. if you could also check things like whether ltsp is working so long (on both live and installed), then that would be great.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, sure, I don't have a server:P
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: ah, I usually just do it in VMs. with libvirt-kvm or virtualbox you can test it on an internal virtual network.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, sure:) In the future, give me something to package;P
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: if you're looking for packaging work, can you check whether we have the latest gcompris package that's also in debian?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, yep
<smartboyhw> It's new
<smartboyhw> I mean, Debian = Ubuntu
<highvoltage> stgraber: the ubuntu one prompt in the installer is *awfull*
#edubuntu 2013-08-29
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, yeah, not too fond of that, I think we should divert it away if possible
<stgraber> highvoltage: try adding a dpkg-divert for /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-ubuntuone.py to /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-ubuntuone.py.disabled into edubuntu-live, that should do the trick
<xnox> stgraber: default boot arg UBIQUITY_NO_SSO, or modify --no-sso to be added in the ubiquity desktop file and in the ubiquity.conf
<xnox> well env. variables.
<xnox> stgraber: u1 page is auto-enabled on all flavours which ship ubuntuone-client (that patch is uploaded). So i'd ask why are you shipping ubuntuone-client yet want to disable ubiquity plugin =)
<xnox> (sorry not uploaded, staged in lp:ubiquity)
<stgraber> xnox: I don't mind people turning on u1 post install, I just don't want to prompt them during install
<stgraber> xnox: we also remove the u1 icon from the default launchers for the same reason
<stgraber> xnox: I saw the env variable, but it's not easy to have it set consistently in the live environment, having our existing live session package divert the step completely is much simpler
<xnox> stgraber: ack. So UBIQUITY_NO_SSO=1 environment variable or --no-sso cmd arg.
<stgraber> we don't currently mangle ubiquity.desktop or ubiquity.conf, having to do so would also be harder than divert the step away (we already do a fair amount of diverting in edubuntu-live, so it's really just an extra line in there)
<xnox> stgraber: i anticipated that some flavours might want to disable u1, but was not sure of a best turn-off mechanism.
<xnox> stgraber: cause e.g. for changelog url, we do look at cdrom/.disk/* stuff. And well we know $flavour name, I could disable sso based on flavour name as well.
<xnox> stgraber: if there is more than one request to disable u1, i'd like something less hackish =)
<stgraber> sure, if someone else wants it gone, then it'd make sense to have a whitelist of flavours that do want the step directly in Ubiquity
<stgraber> considering FF is tomorrow, the easiest way to have it gone by then is an edubuntu-live upload
<xnox> stgraber: let me upload, to disable it on flavours that don't have u1.
<xnox> stgraber: well i'm about to upload ubiquity =)
<stgraber> sure, but that won't help edubuntu since we do have the package there (we're a superset of ubuntu, so anything ubuntu has, we do)
<xnox> =)
<xnox> ack.
<highvoltage> xnox ftw.
<stgraber> highvoltage: will you have time to add the divert by FF time?
<highvoltage> xnox: did you end up disabling by flavour name?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, did you get the link?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yes, thanks. looked at it, it's on my list after the ffe bug
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, good
<smartboyhw> Thanks!
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, BTW, Ubuntu QA Team is starting a grand project to look for more testers (especially flavours with few testers like Edubuntu_
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: cool
<highvoltage> seems like we're getting quite a bit of kde components in again that we shouldn't.
<Ahmuck> hi
<Ahmuck> hiya stgraber
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, :O
<xnox> highvoltage: at the moment no, as i have no idea which flavours want it off. And well, to know why they want it off.
<Ahmuck> some time ago
<Ahmuck> (~three years or so)
<highvoltage> xnox: thanks, just wanted to check based on the earlier discussion I've seen
<xnox> highvoltage: at the moment it's enabled on those images that ship ubuntuone-client package which is not all flavours.
<Ahmuck> i recall using some type of master server and then video over the network
<Ahmuck> the name again?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: big blue button?
<xnox> highvoltage: at the moment it's enabled on: Ubuntu, UbuntuKylin, Edubuntu, UbuntuGnome and maybe that's it?!
 * xnox goes to double check Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Mythbuntu & Studio.
<Ahmuck> nope
<xnox> highvoltage: that's the current list "Ubuntu, UbuntuKylin, Edubuntu, UbuntuGnome" currently have the page, because (a) they use gnome keyring (b) they install by default software that uses that token from that keyring.
<xnox> and (c) it's actually a user-friendly / ux feature.
<highvoltage> xnox: ah I see
<xnox> highvoltage: due to themeing, the u1 page doesn't look as good as I hoped on gnome, but am planning to make the images & pictograms blend into the theme.
<highvoltage> xnox: ok. in edubuntu we only install from ubiquity though and don't support proper gnome-shell, but nice to hear :)
<xnox> highvoltage: it's completely independent from the "ubuntu & gnome online accounts" frameworks. and is completely DE agnostic: unity, gnome-panel, gnome-shell, doesn't matter =)
<xnox> as long as gnome-keyring service is started and the keyring unlocked, which is the case for all 4 of above flavours.
 * xnox is another session at the moment.
<Ahmuck> highvoltage: it was remote server and video, keyboard, mouse on a thin client
<Ahmuck> forgot the name
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you know how any of lightdm innards work?
<stgraber> highvoltage: maybe, I looked into it a couple of cycles ago
<highvoltage> gnome-flashback works fine if I do a 'xinit /usr/bin/gnome-session --session gnome-flashback', but executing the same in lightdm just gives me a black screen.
<highvoltage> not sure what's different in lightdm that could cause that.
<stgraber> highvoltage: fixed that an hour ago
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah cool. I'm curious to know what caused that
<stgraber> highvoltage: we switched to using upstart user sessions by default for all the flavours, but gnome-flashback broke as the xsession and the gnome session have different names
<stgraber> that and one of the two gnome-fallback sessions was calling a wrapper shell script which wasn't known by upstart
<stgraber> so I standardized the two .desktop files to call gnome-session properly and I added symlinks to make both the old and new names valid in gnome-session
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah cool, thanks
<stgraber> there's still one problem though, at least on my machine, opening a gnome-fallback session with compiz gives me a fallback session with unity running on top of it (compiz runs with the unity plugin, which it shouldn't)
<stgraber> but that's not related to upstart as running outside an upstart user session doesn't seem to help
<highvoltage> ah yes. that happens with compiz --replace too.
<highvoltage> I guess they made unity a default compiz plugin.
<highvoltage> stgraber: should I ask what to do there on #ubuntu-desktop?
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure. I mentioned it to jbicha earlier today but he didn't seem to care much at the time, might be worth poking some other folks about it.
<Ahmuck> ltsp
#edubuntu 2013-08-30
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, merge still not in?:O
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: oh it is!
#edubuntu 2013-09-01
<highvoltage> stgraber: Setting up ubiquity (2.15.15) ...
<highvoltage> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-ubuntuone.py'
<highvoltage> apparently my divert that works on the live cd breaks the edubuntu livefs build :(
<highvoltage> could it be because edubuntu-live is set up before ubiquity? would it help if edubuntu-live depended on ubiquity?
<stgraber> highvoltage: ah yeah, a dependency should solve that
<stgraber> highvoltage: let me know if you upload edubuntu-live as I'll have to let it through to the release pocket manually (soft freeze)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: uploaded
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, britney hint added
#edubuntu 2014-08-25
<HiDeHo> Hi all i cant find the repos for edubuntu. i want to add them to ubuntu/linuxmint os
<ogra_> there are none ... edubuntu (like all official flavours) just uses the ubuntu archive
#edubuntu 2014-08-27
<TheProf> Good day.  I hope everyone is doing well.  I thought to post here after not getting a response in the LTSP channel and it relates to Edubuntu.  I had a question about thin client architecture please -- does i386 vs amd64 matter if the server is running 64 bit?  The thin client hardware is 64 bit but the default image served from the Edubuntu new install is 32 bit and I do not know how to...
<TheProf> ...change it to 64 bit.  Thank you
#edubuntu 2014-08-31
<Ali_> Hi
<Ali_> anyone there ..
<Ali_> i have a question about LTSP
<work_alkisg> stgraber, highvoltage: tuxtype has made a new release after a long time, it's in debian testing, I think it'd be nice if someone could do a manual import to utopic
<work_alkisg> Announcement: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.education.tux4kids.tuxtype.devel/1072
<_JK-47> Anyone here built a sub $100 berryterminal or anything like it?
#edubuntu 2015-08-24
<dgroos> Trying to work around this bug:  âsetup doesn't copy /boot partition into imageâ  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1352038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1352038 in LTSP "setup doesn't copy /boot partition into image" [Medium,Fix committed]
<dgroos> @alkisg has fixed it, but upon reboot, the fix is getting overwritten (apparently). Iâm running 14.04. Iâm hoping for a copy/paste-editing re-copying-into-place of perhaps the ltsp-update-image file that I can do every time I have to reboot. Not a great solution but will do for now.
<dgroos> Can anyone help with what that would be?
<dgroos> back laterâ¦
#edubuntu 2017-08-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.16-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.17-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-backports/main) [2.16-0ubuntu2~ubuntu17.04.1 => 2.17-0ubuntu2~ubuntu17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-08-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-flashback (bionic-proposed/universe) [3.28.0-1ubuntu1 => 3.28.0-1ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2019-08-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 19.2-24-ge7881d5c-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 19.2-24-ge7881d5c-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (disco-proposed/main) [19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~19.04.1 => 19.2-24-ge7881d5c-0ubuntu1~19.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
#edubuntu 2020-08-27
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (focal-proposed/main) [20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~20.04.1 => 20.3-2-g371b392c-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 20.3-2-g371b392c-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 20.3-2-g371b392c-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-08-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 20.3-2-g371b392c-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 20.3-2-g371b392c-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
